From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 15:51:31 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:51:31 -0800
Subject: Replacing excel: but with what ?
In-Reply-To: <3C9CF7A6.51F112EC@olen.to>
References: <3C9CCF6C.F1099089@vip.fi>
	<3C9CF7A6.51F112EC@olen.to>
Message-ID: <20020325125131.094736ff.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:46:14 +0200
Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:

> Does Tkinter meet your needs? You can create a spreadsheet by griddinng
> Entry widgets. There is an example in Lutz's Programming Python 2'nd
> Edition, if you happen to owe it.

Doing this was exactly what moved me to wxPython a couple of years ago. 
This approach will work, but it will be extremely slow for even a
moderately large spreadsheet.  I even tried writing a spreadsheet widget
from scratch using Tkinter and although it was much faster, it was still
too slow (unfortunately I no longer have the code or I'd send it to you
=P).  Something like this needs be written in a compiled language.

The wxGrid control is certainly one of the least stable of the wxPython
widgets, but I think if you build your wxWindows and wxPython from CVS
you'll find that many of the problems have been fixed.  Hopefully a release
is in the works that includes these fixes in the near future.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 15:48:04 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 21:48:04 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> So does this change proposes to change the readability so that
> it is clear at a glance (at the source, not the documentation, which
> seems an odd thing to base this on) that those functions return
> boolean conditions rather than integers?

The documentation should change as all, documenting that certain
functions return bool.

> If that is _all_ this change does, I suppose it would be okay.
> If it in _any way_ changes the functionality one can currently
> expect for those return values, such as the ability to use as
> indices into a sequence, then I'm still very -1.

Their type changes, and their repr. Apart from that, nothing changes.

> Furthermore, there will be code breakage, and that should always
> rate very high on the list of reasons to leave well enough alone.

Can you show examples of (real!) code that will break? Preferably code
you've written yourself.

Regards,
Martin


From webmaster at greich.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 00:29:14 2002
From: webmaster at greich.co.uk (David Russell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:29:14 -0000
Subject: Python's Syntax
References: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <dTOf8.22092$R16.3235084@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>

Thanks, I think I get it now.




From NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com  Tue Mar 12 20:45:44 2002
From: NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com (John Purser)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:45:44 GMT
Subject: struct.calcsize() giving odd results - Solved
References: <3Rvj8.27781$af7.23161@rwcrnsc53> <W_vj8.20309$N7.4753798@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <cbyj8.28037$Yv2.11721@rwcrnsc54>

Grant,

That got it.  Thanks it was driving me nuts.  Time to go back and RTFM some
more.

John Purser


"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:W_vj8.20309$N7.4753798 at ruti.visi.com...
> In article <3Rvj8.27781$af7.23161 at rwcrnsc53>, John Purser wrote:
>
> [regarding struct size that isn't what he wants]
>
> > And that's it.  I tucked this into a variable (fmt) and ran it through
> > struct.calcsize(fmt) and got 190.  I assumed I'd made a typo so I went
over
> > my string.  No problems there.  So I assumed I added it up wrong in the
> > first place.  Nope, 180 bytes.
>
> By default, struct will use the alignment/packing conventions
> used by the native C compiler.  If you want something else,
> you've got to specify it.
>
> Try adding a "=" to the front of your format string.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ALFRED JARRY! Say
>                                   at               something about th'
DEATH
>                                visi.com            of DISCO!!




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Tue Mar 12 22:05:02 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:05:02 GMT
Subject: fun codeop hack
Message-ID: <ylzj8.5773$vH1.5630@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

Replace the Compile class with the following:

class Compile:
    """Instances of this class behave much like the built-in compile
    function, but if one is used to compile text containing a future
    statement, it "remembers" and compiles all subsequent program texts
    with the statement in force."""
    macros = []
    def __init__(self):
        self.flags = 0

    def __call__(self, source, filename, symbol):
        for macro in Compile.macros:
            source = macro(source)
        codeob = compile(source, filename, symbol, self.flags, 1)
        for feature in _features:
            if codeob.co_flags & feature.compiler_flag:
                self.flags |= feature.compiler_flag
        return codeob

============================
Now you can do all kinds of fun stuff like this
in IDLE and PythonWin
============================
PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import re
>>> forRe = re.compile(r'for\s+(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)\s+to\s+(\d+)\s*:')
>>> def newFor(string):
...  return forRe.sub(r'for \1 in range(\2, 1 + \3):',string)
...
>>> import codeop
>>> codeop.Compile.macros.append(newFor)
>>>
>>> for i = 1 to 6:
...  print i, i*i
...
1 1
2 4
3 9
4 16
5 25
6 36
>>>

PS. For the record I'm perfectly happy with current for loop syntax.  Just
thought it was a good example





From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 20 06:58:51 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:58:51 +0000
Subject: module for accessing dBase (.dbf) files?
In-Reply-To: <a79pbk$nj5$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <3C725F2C.2020406@gncz.cz> <a79pbk$nj5$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20020320115851.GB18197@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 11:51:40AM +0100, Harald Schneider wrote:
> 
> "Ondrej Martinek" <oma at gncz.cz> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:3C725F2C.2020406 at gncz.cz...
> > Hi,
> >
> > anyone knows a python module for accessing dBase .dbf files.  All
> > modules I've found so far didn't support index files.

This dismayed me too until I realised I probably didn't really need
index files.  Of course, it depends on the size of the table in
question, but for my purposes (tables < 10Mb) I got away with just
reading the whole table into memory and sorting it however I wanted
using python's standard .sort() mechanism (using comparison functions
as appropriate).  I used this DBF module:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?i=96891420

Of course, YMMV, if you've got 100Mb tables this might well be less
attractive...

Just a thought.

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From jdgorman at ieee.org  Wed Mar 13 03:06:05 2002
From: jdgorman at ieee.org (John Gorman)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:06:05 GMT
Subject: Newbie Import two coloums of floating point data into python HOWTO
References: <7eb201fc.0203110422.1e9c7dec@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015851319.9157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8F089A.7090108@ieee.org>

Andy,
    There are also several python scripts/utilities that people have 
posted for loading tabular data into python and numpy arrays. These 
might be overkill for what you're doing, but could be helpful for large 
arrays.

    Check out the following:
ASV, csv, DataHandlers (see Parnassus link below)
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/973100124

or TableIO
http://php.iupui.edu/~mmiller3/python/

TableIO has hooks to convert ascii/csv data into Numerical Python 
arrays. This is quite useful and I've used it in the past to migrate 
arrays between Matlab, NumPy, Gnumeric and <gasp> MS Excel.  This'll 
even work for importing ascii formatted images into Python, although I 
wouldn't recommend it for that purpose ;^).

Cheers,
John Gorman


Andy Gimblett wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 04:22:48AM -0800, Andybee wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can some one tell me how to import two coloumns of data in a ascii
>>text file,into two arrays in python? I cant seem to work it out. The
>>data is genereated in matlab and I want to import it into python
>>
> 
> Let's say you data looks something like this:
> 
> 1.0   5.0
> 2.0   10.2
> 3.1   13.4
> 
> etc.
> 
> Then here's one answer...  There are probably cleverer and more
> efficient ways of doing this, but this one's pretty easy to understand
> and so hopefully more suited to a newbie... :-)
> 
> I'm also not _quite_ answering your question, because you asked how to
> get two seperate lists, one per column, whereas what this does is
> return a list of tuples (one tuple per data line), which is how _I'd_
> do it.  ;-) Easy to change to your way, anyway.
> 
> def foobar(filename):
> 
>     # We'll return a single list, consisting of 2-element tuples, one
>     # per line in the data file.
> 
>     results = []
> 
>     # Open the input file and read the lines.  Note that this reads
>     # them all in before continuing, and so would be unsuitable for a
>     # large file.  Possible alternatives would involve using
>     # readline() or xreadlines(), the investigation of which is left
>     # as an exercise to the reader.  :-)
>     
>     input = open(filename)
>     lines = input.readlines()
> 
>     # Now iterate over the lines, populating the result
>     
>     for line in lines:
>         
>         if not line.strip():
>             # Skip blank line
>             continue
> 
>         # Split the line up, convert the values to floats, add it to
>         # the result set.
>         
>         (first, second) = line.split()
>         row = (float(first), float(second))
>         results.append(row)
> 
>     return results
> 
> BTW, if you haven't seen it yet, I'd heartily recommend that you work
> through the python tutorial at:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html
> 
> This contains everything you'd need to answer your question/understand
> the above, and a whole lot more.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Andy
> 
> 



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 28 11:37:40 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:37:40 -0600
Subject: Extension Modules in C
In-Reply-To: <3CA34211.5D367EAB@amtec.com>
References: <3CA34211.5D367EAB@amtec.com>
Message-ID: <15523.18132.97741.188602@beluga.mojam.com>

    Michael> Some of the functions have parameters that are both input and
    Michael> output.... Does Python support this notion of a passed
    Michael> parameter being modified?

Nope.  You'll have to adjust your call interface to return the modified values.

    Michael>   int GetSomeInfo(char **Title, int *count, int *size);

    Michael> where it would be called as follows:

    Michael>   int isOk, count, size;
    Michael>   isOk = GetSomeInfo(NULL, &count, &size);

Your wrapper would probably return a tuple containing the modified values of
count and size if the method succeeded, and raise an exception or return an
empty tuple if not.  (The latter case is problematic.  I'd raise an
exception.)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 03:03:55 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:03:55 GMT
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3768B.32BB6AC9@ccvcorp.com> <slrnaa7e6a.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LdVo8.111980$7b.10291237@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"phil hunt" <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnaa7e6a.eau.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk...
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:01:15 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com>
wrote:
> >I disagree.  I'm just as happy that Python doesn't try to guess
what would be a
> >suitable "default" value for non-existent keys.
>
> The default value should always be None.
>
> None should act like 0 or "" or [] or {} where appropriate, i.e.:
>
>    None + 1 --> 1
>    None + "x" --> "x"
>    None * 4 --> 0
>    None + ['x'] --> ['x']
>    None + {2:3} --> {2:3}

Please no!.  A missing value is missing, and should not be used for
any further analysis!  Having a 'no value' built into the language is
one of the nice things about Python.

Terry J. Reedy (sometime statistical consultant)





From barry at zope.com  Mon Mar 18 12:26:49 2002
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:26:49 -0500
Subject: RELEASED email package version 1.2
Message-ID: <15510.9049.480183.273456@anthem.wooz.org>

I've released the standalone email package version 1.2.  This version
has much better support RFC 2047, especially when using multibyte
character sets (much thanks go to Ben Gertzfield).  A NEWS file
excerpt is included below.

I will eventually be merging this code into the Python distro, but
there are a few new features I want to look at first.  One of them
includes RFC 2231 support (written by Oleg Broytmann).

You can get the standalone email package from SourceForge:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mimelib/

Bug reports to this project please, not to the Python bug tracker
(until this code is merged into the Python distro).

Enjoy,
-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
1.2 (18-Mar-2002)

    - In the MIMEText class's constructor, the _encoder argument is
      deprecated.  You will get a DeprecationWarning if you try to use
      it.  This is because there is a fundamental conflict between
      _encoder and the fact that _charset is passed to the underlying
      set_payload() method.  _encoder really makes no sense any more.

    - When Message.set_type() is used to set the Content-Type: header,
      the MIME-Version: header is always set (overriding any existing
      MIME-Version: header).

    - More liberal acceptance of parameter formatting, e.g. this is
      now accepted: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary = "FOO"
      I.e. spaces around the = sign.

    - Bug fix in Generator related to splitting long lines in a
      multiline header.

    - In class Charset, __str__() method added, as were __eq__() and
      __ne__().

    - Charset.get_body_encoding() may now return a function as well as
      a string character set name.  The function takes a single
      argument, which is a Message instance, and may change the
      Content-Transfer-Encoding: header (or do any other manipulations
      on the message).

    - Charset.from_splittable() added argument to_output which is used
      to specify whether the input_codec or the output_codec is used
      for the conversion (by default, the output codec is used).

1.1 (unreleased)

    - No changes since 0.97.  Only the version number has changed.

0.97 (unreleased)

    - Message.set_charset() can now take a string naming a character
      set in addition to a Charset instance.  In the former case, a
      Charset is instantiated by passing the string to its
      constructor.

    - The MIMEText constructor now passes the _charset argument to the
      underlying set_charset() method.  This makes things consistent
      at the cost of a minor semantic change: the resulting instance
      will have a Content-Transfer-Encoding: header where previously
      it did not.

    - A fix for a crash when quopriMIME.encode() tried to encode a
      multiline string containing a blank line.

    - New module Header.py which provides a higher level interface for
      encoded email headers, such as Subject:, From:, and To:.  This
      module provides an abstraction for composing such headers out of
      charset encoded parts, and for decoding such headers.  It
      properly splits lines on character boundaries even for multibyte
      character sets.

    - New RFC compliant base64 and quoted-printable modules, called
      base64MIME.py and quopriMIME.py.  These are intended to replace
      the Python standard base64.py and quopri.py modules, but are
      geared toward their use conformant to the various MIME email
      standards.

    - The Message class is much more character set aware and RFC
      compliant:
      
        + set_payload() now takes a new optional charset argument
        + New methods set_charset(), get_charset(), set_param(),
          del_param(), set_type()
        + Header parameter quoting is more RFC compliant
        + get_param() and get_params() now take a new optional unquote
          argument

    - The Charset module now knows about utf-8, gb2132, and big5
      codecs, the latter two of which are available independently of
      Python (see the comments in this module for downloading Chinese,
      Japanese, and Korean codecs).

      New Charset methods get_body_encoding(), get_output_charset(),
      encoded_header_len(), header_encode(), and body_encode().

    - The Generator now handles encoding the body, if the message
      object has a character set.

    - The Utils module has new functions fix_eols() and make_msgid().
      It also includes a workaround for bugs in parseaddr() when used
      with Python versions before 2.2.

    - A fix for a Parser bug when parsing multipart/* parts that
      contain only a single subpart.




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Thu Mar  7 14:16:08 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:16:08 +0100
Subject: 'The Goat and the Car' puzzle solved in Python -- was: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
In-Reply-To: <20020308002819.GA1571@blackscarab>
References: <20020308002819.GA1571@blackscarab>
Message-ID: <20020307191607.GB1748@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 07/03/02 ? 19:28, stefan antoni ?crivit:
> sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know the
> name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
> problem is also in german.
> 
> i want to write this basic code in python:
> http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:Uugc3CH9SOQC:home.spektracom.de/ellrich/Ziegen.htm+ziegenproblem+basic+programm&hl=de
> 
> i am still going to school, and we talked about this problem in a math
> lesson. since i haven't got a basic-interpreter, i'd like to translate
> this code into python, but i don't understand the code.

The BASIC code hurts my eyes. I've hacked a Pythonic solution:

import random

prices = ["goat", "goat", "car"]

iterations = 2000
times_won = 0

for i in range(iterations):
    random.shuffle(prices)
    mypick = random.randrange(3)
    
    # Moderator chooses a 'goat door' randomly
    while 1:
        goat_chosen_by_moderator = random.randrange(3)
        if prices[goat_chosen_by_moderator] != "car" and \
            goat_chosen_by_moderator != mypick:
            break

    # We take the other door!
    door_numbers = range(3)
    door_numbers.remove(mypick)
    door_numbers.remove(goat_chosen_by_moderator)
    mypick = door_numbers[0]

    # Is there a a car?
    if prices[mypick] == "car":
        times_won += 1

print float(times_won) / iterations

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 9.7 ?C      Wind: 4.9 m/s



From sam_collett at lycos.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 04:26:57 2002
From: sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 01:26:57 -0800
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com> <4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2030665d.0203070126.55addc33@posting.google.com>

> Actually, I usually use a few more cases so that I always get two
> significant digits:  1.2k, 23k, 840k, 2.4M, etc.
How would you do that then (maybe even to 2 decimal places, e.g. 24.52kb)?


From metaliu at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 20:22:54 2002
From: metaliu at yahoo.com (Bill)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:22:54 -0800
Subject: quick Tkinter Label question
Message-ID: <a693pf$jp9$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

I have a label widget with an image being displayed.  The image changes.
Now how do I update the label widget?  assuming I have a ImageTk PhotoImage
called tkim:

root = Tk()
l = Label(root, image=tkim, bd=0)
l.pack()

.... tkim changes...

calling l.pack() doesnt update the label widget with the new image.  neither
does calling l.update().  The Intro to Tkinter doc says "The label widget
uses double buffering, so you can update the contents at any time, without
annoying flicker."  Can someone help me on how to do that?

Thanks in advance,
Bill




From sam_collett at lycos.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 07:06:42 2002
From: sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 04:06:42 -0800
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com> <4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com> <2030665d.0203070126.55addc33@posting.google.com> <3C87A28B.549D9B1C@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <2030665d.0203080406.5b1b008b@posting.google.com>

How would you remove trailing 0's?
e.g.
Instead of 12.20kb it would be 12.2kb
23kb instead of 23.00 etc

Chris Barker <Chris.Barker at noaa.gov> wrote in message news:<3C87A28B.549D9B1C at noaa.gov>...
> Sam Collett wrote:
> > 
> > > Actually, I usually use a few more cases so that I always get two
> > > significant digits:  1.2k, 23k, 840k, 2.4M, etc.
> > How would you do that then (maybe even to 2 decimal places, e.g. 24.52kb)?
> 
> You make sure the result of your division is a Float (Ah, how I long for
> the "new division" to be standard!) and you use %f instead of %d
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> 
> def ShowSize(raw):
>     if raw < 3000:
>         return "%db" % raw
>     elif raw < 2000000:
>         return "%.2fkb" % (raw / 1000.)
>     elif raw < 2000000000L:
>         return "%.2fMb" % (raw / 1000000.)
>     else:
>         return "%.2fGb" % (raw / 1000000000.)
> 
> 
> print ShowSize(2567L)
> print ShowSize(2567000L)
> print ShowSize(256700000L)
> print ShowSize(2567000000L)
> print ShowSize(256700000000L)
> 
> And here are the results:
> 
> >>> execfile("junk.py")
> 2567b
> 2.57M
> 256.70M
> 2.57G
> 256.70G
> 
> -- 
> Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
> Oceanographer
>                                     		
> NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
> 7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
> Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception
> 
> Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Fri Mar  8 17:10:13 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:10:13 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>        <B8AD9351.4A8C%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>        <a6ascr$19l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1015611735.7436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c8937e0$1_10@news.newsgroups.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015611735.7436.python-list at python.org...

> that can be done.  Why not file a bug report, investigate and solve the
> problem, then grab some of that fame and fortune I alluded in my post
> seeking new developers yesterday?  (I'm not picking on Donn, he just
happens
> to be the one who raised this issue and gave me the nice segue.)

Not to segue myself but.. I have patch (505846) sitting in the list since
January 19th.

After a flurry of give and take activities (i.e. submitting better versions
of the patch), nothing has happened since January 28th.

I have other patches that depend on this one first (For Windows CE and
NetWare) that I have not submitted.

I've tried to be good and just wait.. But how long should I expect to wait?

I've begged a few times for a response.. Either a rejection or a "be
patient" would be nice, but haven't received either.

I figured everyone was busy for IPC10.. But still, no response. :-(






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From dreed at capital.edu  Tue Mar 26 18:06:48 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:06:48 -0500
Subject: python on Sharp Zaurus
Message-ID: <200203262306.g2QN6m119697@localhost.localdomain>

Does anyone know if Python runs on the new Sharp Zaurus?

http://www.idg.net/go.cgi?id=656429

Thanks,
Dave



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 17:25:26 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:25:26 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <2zRcLUAVjXp8EwVv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEDPOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Robin Becker]
> This pretty much seems unwanted to me. Done purely for political
> correctness. Whenever new keywords are discussed the Gods are against
> them. Now we have to accept new constants true, false + a new type.

True, False and bool aren't proposed to be keywords; they're just new
builtins.  If you currently have code doing

try:
    True
except NameError:
    breathe()

I suppose you'll stop breathing.

but-if-you-have-code-like-that-maybe-it's-for-the-best-ly y'rs  - tim




From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 22 14:58:12 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:58:12 -0800
Subject: SECURITY ALERT!!!                                                            . gvc
In-Reply-To: <UTC200203221528.QAA10263@hera.cwi.nl>
References: <UTC200203221528.QAA10263@hera.cwi.nl>
Message-ID: <20020322115812.2c807086.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:30:28 -0000
lwvSecurity wrote:

> Since the invention of Microsoft Windows, and the further invent of newer
Windows versions, (thanks Bill) life has got easier for you and me to work
with computers.
> 
> At the same time computers have got much more power fuller, and smaller
at the same time. The same computer you are using now would take the most
part of your room 15 - 20 years ago.

But apparently users are still as illiterate as ever.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From bernie at 3captus.com  Tue Mar  5 03:08:24 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:08:24 GMT
Subject: Brewster's Factor - was :Trouble running programs
References: <mailman.1015243028.14971.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C847D7C.5F75CB46@3captus.com>

Laura Creighton wrote:

> > Bernard Yue's sig is:
> >
> > There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
> > the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
> > facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
> > fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
> > Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
> > Factor; that's engineering.
> >
> > So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
> > praise of intelligence.
> >                 -- Bertrand Russell
>
> I wanted to know what Brewster's Factor was.  I found out that the first
> part of the quote -- the bit that ends with Engineering should be
> attributed to Robert A. Heinlein (from The Number of the Beast).

Number of the Beast!!!  Read the book but don't remember the quote <sigh>!!
Thanks for the correction.

> But the only Brewster Factors I can find have to do with polarised light,
> or English Chrisitian Revivalist Victorian political parties, neither
> of which I suspect is what I am looking for.  Any ideas?

Laura, I believe you found what you have looking for.  I think in the quote
Brewster Factor is refering to Brewster Law.  Which states that
non-polarized light will be reflected as polarized light (a special case in
reflection) and reflected and refracted light will be in right angle.  I see
this as an analogy to Engineering, in which a system only works under
certain conditions (Brewster Angle) and failed to function otherwise
(Murphy's Law).  Robert A. Heinlein should be able to another the question,
but we are nearly 14 years too late.

>
> Laura Creighton

I love this newsgroup.


Bernie
--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                                -- Robert A. Heinlein





Laura Creighton wrote:

> > Bernard Yue's sig is:
> >
> > There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
> > the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
> > facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
> > fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
> > Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
> > Factor; that's engineering.
> >
> > So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
> > praise of intelligence.
> >                 -- Bertrand Russell
>
> I wanted to know what Brewster's Factor was.  I found out that the first
> part of the quote -- the bit that ends with Engineering should be
> attributed to Robert A. Heinlein (from The Number of the Beast).  But
> the only Brewster Factors I can find have to do with polarised light,
> or English Chrisitian Revivalist Victorian political parties, neither
> of which I suspect is what I am looking for.  Any ideas?
>
> Laura Creighton

--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein

So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
praise of intelligence.
                -- Bertrand Russell


One OS to rule them all, one OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Redmond, where the Shadows lie.




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 19:10:56 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:10:56 +0100
Subject: Statically linking standard Python modules into an application
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203131523520.19507-100000@marmot.cs.wisc.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203131523520.19507-100000@marmot.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20020314001055.GB1347@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 16:44, Brian Forney ?crivit:
> [...] Is there a way to statically link in all of the standard modules
> *and* the Python library *and* keep the Python library from calling
> dlopen() for standard modules?

You need to edit Modules/Setup, then rebuild Python. In theory, putting
a "*static*" line at the top, then adding the modules normally built
with distutils to this file should do the trick.

Gerhard



From rwgk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 02:05:07 2002
From: rwgk at yahoo.com (Ralf W. Grosse-Kunstleve)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 23:05:07 -0800
Subject: Scripting C++ -- 2 -- a more concrete example.
References: <3C7E6642.2030202@physics.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <8be7693c.0202282305.12ee7d46@posting.google.com>

Craig Maloney <cmaloney at physics.ucsb.edu> wrote in message news:<3C7E6642.2030202 at physics.ucsb.edu>...
> Thanks to all for the great leads to wrapper generators for 
> Suppose that I have a class Crystal, and a class Atom.  I'd like to be 
> able to do the following:
> 
> -----------------
> Crystal c;
> ...
> Atom a1;
> Atom a2;
> ...
> 
> c.addAtom(a1);
> c.addAtom(a2);
> ...
> c.computeEnergy();
> ---------------------
> 
> Atom is a simple enough data structure that default copy works.

Crystals and atoms... that looks familiar to me :-)
See cctbx.sf.net.
This is a C++ library with Python bindings implemented using
Boost.Python.
 
> Now here comes the concrete question.  If I want to use this class 
> library from a scripting language (e.g. Python) what are the pros and 
> cons of using wrapper code (e.g. Boost.Python or SILOON from lanl) vs CORBA.
> 
> To me the main differences are:
> 
> 1) Interface generation.
> If I use CORBA, I would have to write IDL interfaces on top of the 
> library, since there is no reverse mapping from C++ as there is in java. 
>   It seems contrary to the spirit to write the IDL *after* I've written 
> the class library -- indicating a lack of regard to issues of 
> distributedness in designing the class library. (see my comment at the end)
> 
> If I use wrapper generators, it seems like there is a chance (e.g. using 
> SILOON/PDT or BOOST/PDT) that it would be possible to have the wrapper 
> code automatically generated.

I do not know about PDT, it certainly is not currently
integrated with Boost.Python. I.e. you have to write the
wrappers manually. If you do this while developing a library,
the extra coding time is in general negligible compared to
the time it takes to develop the rest. If you want to wrap
a large existing library it can be a bit cumbersome.

> This is a major boon as I would not have to convert 
> std::valarray<double> to sequence<double> or whatever monkeying I would 
> have to do.  I can imaging this getting pretty hairy to the point of 
> unworkable.
> 
> 2) Marshalling and Objects-by-value.
> When the "Crystal" computes its energy it should *NOT* have to marshall 
> calls to get at the atom data structures.  This is an operation that 
> will be repeated about 2.85 bijillllion times.  In CORBA, this is no 
> problem -- I would either have Crystal::addAtom take a valuetype (atoms 
> are easy enough to serialize), or I would use some "co-location" trick 
> so that the ORB knows that the atom *really* lives in the same address 
> space as the crystal.  Preferrably the former.
> 
> If using a wrapper generator (e.g. SILOON) I don't see a way around the 
> marshalling of the call to get at the atom data structure.
> 
> Of course, this would be taken care of by a revamp of the design of the 
> class library... maybe making the crystal an atom factory that produces 
> new atoms in its own address space.  But I would like to avoid thinking 
> about multi-language and distribution issues when designing the core of 
> the library.  Is this dream just simply self-contradictory?

Does "marshalling" mean converting objects to strings (and vice versa)?
If you use Boost.Python the wrapped C++ objects are never marshalled.
The run-time overhead for crossing the language boundary is very
small. In our applications (higher-level management in Python,
number-crunching in C++) it is hardly ever noticeable.

Ralf


From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 15:27:01 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:27:01 -0500
Subject: thread-safe swap
Message-ID: <833cyl3gfe.fsf_-_@panacea.canonical.org>

Someone recommended using the idiom

    spam, eggs = eggs, spam

to get a thread-safe swap.  Does this really work?
>>> import dis
>>> def x(a, b): a, b = b, a
...
>>> dis.dis(x)
          0 SET_LINENO               1

          3 SET_LINENO               1
          6 LOAD_FAST                1 (b)
          9 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
         12 BUILD_TUPLE              2
         15 UNPACK_SEQUENCE          2
         18 STORE_FAST               0 (a)
         21 STORE_FAST               1 (b)
         24 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         27 RETURN_VALUE        

So if this thread loses control anywhere between the first LOAD_FAST
and the last STORE_FAST, a value could get stored by another thread
into "b" which would then be lost.  There isn't anything keeping this
from happening, is there?



From maurelius01 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 16:03:23 2002
From: maurelius01 at hotmail.com (Marc)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 13:03:23 -0800
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
Message-ID: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com>

I have classes defined in different files and would like to inherit
from a class in file A.py for a class in file B.py but am running into
problems.  I'm using Python 1.5.2 on Windows NT

Here's a specific example:

************************
file cbase01.py:

class CBase:

    def __init__(self):
        self.cclass = None
        print "cbase"

class CImStream(CBase):

    def __init(self):
        CBase.__init__(self)
        print "CImStream"

*************************
in file wrappers_A01.py: 

import cbase01
reload(cbase01)

class ImStream_SavedBitmaps(cbase01.CImStream):

    def __init__(self):
        cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
        print "SavedBitmaps"

**************************
in file sequencer01.py

import cbase01    # the offending lines, program works 
reload(cbase01)   # if I comment these out.

class Sequencer:

    def Append(self, item):
        pass

*****************************
in test02.py

import wrappers_A01
reload(wrappers_A01)

import sequencer01
reload(sequencer01)

x0 = wrappers_A01.ImStream_SavedBitmaps()
***************************************************************

If I run test02 I get the traceback

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\test02.py", line 15, in ?
    x0 = wrappers_A01.ImStream_SavedBitmaps()
  File "D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\wrappers_A01.py", line 21,
in __init__
    cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
TypeError: unbound method must be called with class instance 1st
argument


Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

Thanks,
Marc


From narnett at mccmedia.com  Mon Mar 25 00:37:14 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:37:14 -0800
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
In-Reply-To: <3C9EA59A.D3F76D2F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJOENJJMAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Peter Hansen


[snip]

> By the way, how can Python code get "stuck"?  Is it a logic flaw,
> or are you talking about the kind of "stuck" that used to happen,
> in the "old days", when we were always writing code in languages
> which would actually crash the computer?

I'm using these vague adjectives because I can't tell what is happening.
Somewhere in the midst of retrieving pages with urllib and parsing them with
sgmllib, everything seems to stop.  And yes, it's a console app for the
moment.  I have a GUI that'll control it, but I'm working on pieces that
grab web pages, extract data and stick them in MySQL.  The only thing I'm
sure of is that it's not a problem with the database.  It happens at a
different point each time, sometimes after a few dozen pages, sometimes
after a couple of hundred.  And I can re-do the same sequence of pages and
it'll freeze/loop/stop/whatever at a different point each time.  The process
is alive, there's no memory size change and it's consuming very few CPU
cycles when this happens.

I'm working in PythonWin and I would have hoped that "break into running
code" would get me into it when this happens, so I could see where it's
getting stuck, but no, that would apparently be too convenient.

Nick




From gimbo at ftech.net  Tue Mar 19 10:41:14 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:41:14 +0000
Subject: Getopt / matching problem
In-Reply-To: <3C9751DD.1070204@beth.uniforum.org.za>
References: <3C9751DD.1070204@beth.uniforum.org.za>
Message-ID: <20020319154114.GA8801@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 04:57:33PM +0200, mixo wrote:
> 
> From running the command "python  script.py --use=mixo"
> I get the result
> [('--user', 'mixo')]
> 
> Why do I get match? Is there something that I have left out?
> If I pass "--u", "--us" to script I get the same result?

>From the getopt module documentation:

    Long options on the command line can be recognized so long as they
    provide a prefix of the option name that matches exactly one of
    the accepted options.  For example, it long_options is ['foo',
    'frob'], the option --fo will match as --foo, but --f will not
    match uniquely, so GetoptError will be raised.

So it's nothing to worry about, just the documented behaviour, and
really the way we'd want it to work, if you think about.

Cheers,

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From timr at probo.com  Sun Mar  3 19:16:29 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:16:29 -0800
Subject: Fw: smtplib: including a subject
References: <mailman.1015065904.9385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ve58uc3h1r0qsqp1moa60iug54m32043n@4ax.com>

"Tal Linzen" <pachy at 012.net.il> wrote:

>Hi.
>
>I couldn't figure out how to send a mail with a 
>subject. Help?

The KEY point to remember is that smtplib is used, as the name implies, to
manage SMTP.  SMTP cares nothing about the actual content of the message.
It doesn't read the headers at all; the headers and the message body are
equally irelevant to SMTP.

Here's a sample SMTP exchange:

1.   MAIL FROM: <timr at probo.com>
2.   RCPT TO: <joe at blow.com>
3.   RCPT TO: <fred at blow.com>
4.   DATA
5.   Subject: This is a subject.
6.   From:  <noone at all>
7.   To: <winnie.pooh at hundredacres.com>
8.
9.   Just checking!
10.  .

Only lines 1, 2, 3, 4 and 10 are actually SMTP.  The rest of it is just
text.  Also note that the addresses in my sample message body (lines 6 and
7) are completely unrelated to the actual sender and recipients in lines 1,
2 and 3.  What you specify to smtplib is the stuff in lines 1, 2, and 3.
You have to create the stuff in lines 5 and beyond yourself.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Mar  5 00:04:33 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:04:33 +1300
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C8451E1.B2CD032@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> 
> Python isn't necessarily slow:

That sounds like a great title for a Python
song: "It Ain't Necessarily Slow!"

Anyone want to contributes some lyrics?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar  1 14:05:41 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:41 -0800
Subject: Minor, minor style question
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.1015002783.32392.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5ojoe$8pgot$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

> Why would I prefer
>   string = ""
>   string = string + "abc "
>   string = string + "def "
>   string = string + "xyz"
> over
>   string = "abc " + \
>       "def " + \
>       "xyz"
> ?

Isn't the question about line continuations?  I don't use them (except
on rare occasions), preferring to do something more like:

string = ('abc' +
    'def' +
    'xzy')

As to deprecation, a quick scan of the 2.2 standard library shows 42516
lines of which 249 used '\' style continuations, and other styles
accounting for 958.  (Note: I count a line as a sequence of source lines
that together tokenize properly.)

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 18:36:31 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 18:36:31 -0500
Subject: Python/Linux
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a886hv$st6$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>,
Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>I'd like to know which Web site development tool you like the best, because
>I'm going to assume that you're using one that integrates well with Python.
>Bear in mind that I'm one of those who like to be spoiled by a nice WYSIWIG
>IDE if possible. Here's is the choice list I've built up after surfing much,
>post much, and reading much replies:
>
>Quanta
>Bluefish
>PHP (Will I need to learn this or any other scripting lang if I'm using
>Python for all my custom site stuff?)
>Open Office's HTML tool
>Delph/Kylix with perhaps kbmWABD (I'm Delphi prog'er too)
>IBM's WebSphere home page builder (yes I know it cost a little)

If you're using Python, go with either Zope or Quixote.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar 18 20:00:32 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 01:00:32 GMT
Subject: PIL Headaches: Advice Needed
References: <4378fa6f.0203161652.7f28e23b@posting.google.com> <a711h2$4db$0@216.39.172.122> <7652139e.0203170045.3c143995@posting.google.com> <4378fa6f.0203180858.4ad5f8b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a762jg$kmd$0@216.39.172.122>

On 18 Mar 2002 08:58:11 -0800, mnations at airmail.net (Marc) wrote:

>This is the main error that I am seeing:
>
>
>...
>File "play2_copy.py", line 90, in createWidgets
>  im = "Image.open("cs.bmp")
        ^--??
I that from real code or what are you posting?

>File "C:\Python22\lib\Image.py", line 960 in open
>IOError: cannot identify image file
>
>
>I have tried this with .gif, .jpg, and a couple of others and none of
>the file types are recognized. Here is the code where the image is
>imported:
>
>canvas = Canvas(goFrame, width=400, height=400)
>	im = Image.open("cs.bmp")
>	im.show()
>	canvas.pack()
>
Funny indentation. That's not how it really looks, right?

>What am I doing wrong?
>
I doesn't look like you are posting actual code or
verbatim lines from an interactive session.

Since you can interactively walk through suspicious code one statement at
a time and look at the results, why don't you do that? Then if it isn't
obvious, post a verbatim copy of the failing interaction.

You can copy from the windows console window by Alt-SpaceBar>E>K then select the text block
with the mouse by pressing with the left mouse button with the cursor on the first character
and keeping the left button pressed while moving the cursor to the bottom right to make a block
that encloses what you want, and then pressing Enter. That will put it in the clipboard.
Then paste into your news reader message editor.

HTH!

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sun Mar 10 01:00:16 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 17:00:16 +1100
Subject: Sybase module 0.33 released
Message-ID: <m31yetm07j.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

What is it:
The Sybase module provides a Python interface to the Sybase relational
database system.  It supports all of the Python Database API, version
2.0 with extensions.

Note:

Since the 0.32 release I have come to the realisation that the Sybase
dynamic SQL functionality is not nearly general enough to use for
correct DB-API functionality.  I have thrown up my hands and gone back
to the drawing board with the high level Sybase.py module.

There were four pre-releases of the module.  The following is a
summary of what has changed since 0.32:

1) Bulkcopy support has been temporarily removed from Sybase.py.  The
   low level support is still present in the sybasect extension module.

2) Cursors are no longer using dynamic SQL so there will no
   longer be an extra result set which reported the status of the
   temporary stored procedure.  This should remove some of the
   confusion behaviour of cursors.

   There should be fewer restrictions on the use of cursors.

3) The paramstyle is now 'named'.  This means that you can now do
   this:

     c.execute("select * from titles where title like @arg",
               {'@arg': 'The %'})

4) You can send arguments to Cursor.callproc() the old way:

     c.callproc('sp_help', ['titles'])

   or the new way:

     c.callproc('sp_help', {'@objname': 'titles'})

5) Some internal cursor state constants were privatised (via leading
   '_').  Sadly no money was raised in the process and the conditions
   of the privatisation contract are commercial-in-confidence.

6) You can now compile the extension module without bulkcopy support
   by doing this:

     python setup.py build_ext -U WANT_BULKCOPY
     python setup.py install

7) The default build does not do threading any more so if you want
   threading enabled you will have to do this:

     python setup.py build_ext -D WANT_THREADS
     python setup.py install

8) There is some initial work to support FreeTDS.  One of the problems
   with FreeTDS is that it does not support inline error handling.
   The callback error handling works well if you do not compile for
   threads support, but causes problems when compiled for threading.

   The problem occurs when the extension module releases the global
   interpreter lock when calling the Sybase CT library.  A Python
   callback causes the interpreter to be reentered by the callback
   which leads to bad things when the following warning from the
   Python include file ceval.h is violated:

     WARNING: NEVER NEST CALLS TO Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS AND
     Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS!!!

   At the moment the module will compile for FreeTDS (at least it does
   on my machine) and some things do work.  All you have to do is
   compile like this:

     python setup.py build_ext -D HAVE_FREETDS -U WANT_BULKCOPY
     python setup.py install

   There is no error handling and reporting for FreeTDS yet.

9) There is now some basic locale support in the sybasect extension
   module.  I do not have a need for this so am really depending upon
   someone to try it and report problems:

      >>> from sybasect import *
      >>> status, ctx = cs_ctx_alloc()
      >>> status, loc = ctx.cs_loc_alloc()
      >>> loc.cs_locale(CS_GET, CS_SYB_LANG)
      (1, 'us_english')
      >>> loc.cs_dt_info(CS_GET, CS_DT_CONVFMT)
      (1, 3)
      >>> loc.cs_dt_info(CS_GET, CS_MONTH, 1)
      (1, 'February')
      >>> loc.cs_dt_info(CS_GET, CS_DATEORDER)
      (1, 'dmy')

   In theory you could do something like this:

      >>> import Sybase
      >>> from Sybase import _ctx, CS_SUCCEED, CS_SET, CS_SYB_LANG, CS_LOC_PROP
      >>> 
      >>> status, locale = _ctx.cs_loc_alloc()
      >>> if status != CS_SUCCEED:
      ...     raise 'cs_loc_alloc'
      ...
      >>> if locale.cs_locale(CS_SET, CS_SYB_LANG, 'french') != CS_SUCCEED:
      ...     raise 'cs_locale CS_SYB_LANG'
      ... 
      >>> db = Sybase.connect('SYBASE', 'sa', '', delay_connect = 1)
      >>> db.set_property(CS_LOC_PROP,  locale)
      >>> db.connect()

10) There is some extra debugging detail for CS_DATAFMT which means you
    now get messages like this:

      >>> import Sybase
      >>> db = Sybase.connect('SYBASE', 'sa', '', 'pubs2')
      >>> db._conn.debug = 1
      >>> c = db.cursor()
      ct_cmd_alloc(conn0, &cmd) -> CS_SUCCEED, cmd1
      >>> c.callproc('sp_help', {'@objname': 'titles'})
      ct_command(cmd1, CS_RPC_CMD, "sp_help", CS_NULLTERM, CS_UNUSED) -> CS_SUCCEED
      ct_param(cmd1, &databuf0->fmt=[name:"@objname" type:CS_CHAR_TYPE status:CS_INPUTVALUE format:CS_FMT_NULLTERM count:1 maxlength:7], databuf0->buff, 6, 0) -> CS_SUCCEED
      ct_send(cmd1) -> CS_SUCCEED
      ct_results(cmd1, &result) -> CS_SUCCEED, CS_ROW_RESULT
      ct_res_info(cmd1, CS_NUMDATA, &value, CS_UNUSED, NULL) -> CS_SUCCEED, 3
      ct_describe(cmd1, 1, &fmt) -> CS_SUCCEED, datafmt0=[name:"Name" type:CS_CHAR_TYPE status:CS_UPDATABLE format:CS_FMT_UNUSED count:0 maxlength:30]
      ct_bind(cmd1, 1, &datafmt0->fmt=[name:"Name" type:CS_CHAR_TYPE status:CS_UPDATABLE format:CS_FMT_UNUSED count:1 maxlength:30], databuf1->buff, databuf1->copied, databuf1->indicator) -> CS_SUCCEED, databuf1
      ct_describe(cmd1, 2, &fmt) -> CS_SUCCEED, datafmt1=[name:"Owner" type:CS_CHAR_TYPE status:48 format:CS_FMT_UNUSED count:0 maxlength:30]
      ct_bind(cmd1, 2, &datafmt1->fmt=[name:"Owner" type:CS_CHAR_TYPE status:48 format:CS_FMT_UNUSED count:1 maxlength:30], databuf2->buff, databuf2->copied, databuf2->indicator) -> CS_SUCCEED, databuf2
      ct_describe(cmd1, 3, &fmt) -> CS_SUCCEED, datafmt2=[name:"Type" type:CS_CHAR_TYPE status:48 format:CS_FMT_UNUSED count:0 maxlength:22]
      ct_bind(cmd1, 3, &datafmt2->fmt=[name:"Type" type:CS_CHAR_TYPE status:48 format:CS_FMT_UNUSED count:1 maxlength:22], databuf3->buff, databuf3->copied, databuf3->indicator) -> CS_SUCCEED, databuf3
           
11) The was a minor change to setup.py for Linux.  No longer looks for
    both libsybtcl and libtcl.  Now just looks for libinsck.

12) The tar file now unpacks to a directory called sybase-<release>.

The module is available here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/sybase-0.33.tar.gz

The module home page is here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From plopp at dummyaddress.doh  Sun Mar 31 19:32:23 2002
From: plopp at dummyaddress.doh (Mikke M.)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 02:32:23 +0200
Subject: Replace high-bit characters in file.
References: <mailman.1017609588.23784.python-list@python.org> <m3y9g8ml7v.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <rUNp8.3119$Ow4.4873@news2.bredband.com>

> > # This is not tested, of course
> > file_contents = open('dbasefile', 'rb').read()
> > file_contents = unicode(file_contents, 'latin-1').encode('cp850')
> > # file_contents is now a string containing the contents of the
> > # file in cp850 format. You can write that string to a file, if you
> > # want.
> > open('dbasefile.out', 'wb').write(file_contents)
> >
> > Is that what you wanted?
>
> Probably not. If a (dBase) file is a binary thing, it might well be
> that you modify the non-text parts of it. You really have to
> understand the structure of the file, and apply the transformation
> only to the text fragments.

The routine above ran in to trouble, exiting with a "UnicodeError: charmap
encoding error: character maps to <undefined>".

I could solve that with a:
    file_contents = unicode(file_contents,
'latin-1').encode('cp850','replace')
But that would, as you say, be dangerous as it may replace some of the
non-text parts.

However, it set me on the right track, so I edited the dbf-module I'm using
(http://www.fiby.at/dbfpy/index.html) so that when it writes a text field to
the dbase file, it is written in cp850.  This way only the relevant part of
the file is changed.


Thanks guys!!

/Mikke





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 17:22:12 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Apr 2002 00:22:12 +0200
Subject: Replace high-bit characters in file.
References: <mailman.1017609588.23784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3y9g8ml7v.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:

> > I need a script that replaces national characters in a (dBase)file.
> > 
> > The original file is encoded in Latin-1 but I need it to be in CP850
> > instead.
> 
> # This is not tested, of course
> file_contents = open('dbasefile', 'rb').read()
> file_contents = unicode(file_contents, 'latin-1').encode('cp850')
> # file_contents is now a string containing the contents of the 
> # file in cp850 format. You can write that string to a file, if you
> # want. 
> open('dbasefile.out', 'wb').write(file_contents)
> 
> Is that what you wanted?

Probably not. If a (dBase) file is a binary thing, it might well be
that you modify the non-text parts of it. You really have to
understand the structure of the file, and apply the transformation
only to the text fragments.

In general, this is more complicated, as the size of the string may
change under the conversion, but in this specific case, this can't
happen.

Regards,
Martin


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 06:40:52 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 11:40:52 GMT
Subject: seek in a file
References: <a7qujn$n78gl$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a7sb44$790$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <a7qujn$n78gl$1 at ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>, 
	Andreas Penzel wrote:

> Hello NG!

> How to jump to a specified line in a file which is read-opened?
> With seek() I can jump to an exact position of  the complete file in
> "byte-steps".
> Is seek able to jump to a line-number?
> If not, what else can I do?

>Thanks for help!

>- Andreas

 This is going to sound harsh, but have you THOUGHT about 
 what you're asking?  Close your eyes and think about how
 the computer works.  If a particular system *could* seek
 directly by line number how *could* that possibly work?
 What would the system have to *know* in order for that to
 work?

 You clearly know what seek() is (at least to some small
 degree).  seek() is a method for Python file objects, it calls
 the fseek() C library function.  lseek() and llseek() are Unix 
 (and Linux) system calls (which are generally called by 
 the C libraries on these systems).  You've already seen that
 seek() provides an interface to randomly access any byte of a 
 file.  Perhaps you've read the man pages for fseek() and/or 
 lseek() (if you're on a UNIX or UNIX-like system). 

 But how could the OS seek to an arbitrary line number?  
 I can only think of three ways that this could work:

  1) Lines could be of fixed length
  2) Files could be indexed with the offsets of each line terminator
  3) The OS could search through the file searching for line terminators

 We know that the modern systems on which Python runs don't have
 fixed line length constraints.  You might guess the files and 
 filesystem metadata don't contain line terminator indexes (under
 UNIX, Linux, MacOS and the various MS Windows OSes, at least). So
 that pretty much leaves us with option #3.

 It turns out, of course, that the OS leaves option number three to
 "user space." In other words, they don't provide system calls or
 low level (core) functions to search through and count line
 terminators.

 Of course it's true that Python *could* provide such a convenience
 function.  However, Python couldn't portably provide such a function
 that would be any more efficient than a short function that you can
 write for yourself.

 The easiest answer would be simply:

 	f = open(yourfile,'r')
	lines = f.readlines()
	your_line = lines[n]
	f.close()

 ... where n was the line number you wanted (and yourfile is a variable
 containing the name of your target file, duh!).  This could actually 
 be shortened to:

 	open(yourfile,'r').readlines()[n]

 (all on one statement line, creating an anonymous file object,
 reading ALL of its lines and returning the nth one; and implicitly
 closing the file as the reference count to the anonymous file
 goes to zero; because we didn't bind it to a variable name).

 That would be the easy and somewhat sloppy answer.  It's probably
 fine for files that you can guarantee are small (that is relatively
 smaller than the memory available to your Python processes).
 Stylistically it's better to have three or four lines of code,
 the open and close, and the readlines() method.  If you're going to
 access more than just one line, then you might as well store the
 whole readlines() list into a variable and use that repeatedly.

 If there's any chance that your file might exceed (or even approach)
 your available memory then you should limit the amount size of your 
 readlines() method.  Of course that means keeping track of a few
 more details:

 	f.open(yourfile,'r')
	curLine = 0
	while 1:
		lines = f.readlines(10000)
		if curLine < n: 	curLine += len(lines)
		else: 				break
	your_line = lines[ n - curLine ]
	f.close()

 That should create a loop that will terminate when the "lines" 
 list contains line number n (your target line as in my previous
 examples).  The tricky part is that the target line might end up
 anywhere in the "lines" buffer.  So, at the end of the loop we
 have to find our target line by subtracting the count of all of 
 the lines that we'd previously read (and implicitly discarded) 
 to leave us with the remaining offset into our lines buffer.

 Naturally you could create your own convenience function 
 that did all this for you.

 Of course this is predicated on the notion that your file
 contains lines of reasonable length.  More precisely it could 
 fail if you file contains any unreasonably long lines before your
 target line.  In practice I wouldn't worry much about this.
 You could seek to the end of the file (f.seek(0,2)) and check the
 size using f.tell() and then just do a "readlines()" if that's
 less than some reasonable watermark (10 to 60 Mb on a late model
 low-end single-user PC).  It is very unlikely that longest line
 length is going to be a problem.

 (If it was, then you could use f.read(x) where x was your 
 buffer size, and then parse through that character/byte buffer
 to separate it into lines.  At that point you'd be well advised
 to look at the StringIO module, which would allow you to treat 
 strings as I/O streams and perform readlines() methods on strings
 as they are returned by a regular file objects read(x) method.
 As I say, it's unlikely that you have to go that far; I'm just 
 mentioning these options to be a completist --- to explain how you
 could use Python's features to overcome all adversity, even the
 tragedy of insufficient memory and degenerate text file formatting).

 Given your original question and my (harsh) answer you might 
 naturally ask why Python doesn't provide a convenience function to
 search for a arbitrary line by number.  I hinted at part of the 
 answer.  The Python interpreter can't do this more efficiently 
 than you can (in part, at least, because the most efficient way
 to accomplish this will depend on the amount of memory you have
 available, and the nature of the text file that you are searching).

 Another reason is that it is quite rare for people to need access
 to specific line (by number) in text files.  If a given application
 requires such access then it would normally be accomplished by
 employing some form of indexing or by using fixed record lengths
 (which might still each be contained on a single line, but that is 
 beside the point).

 So it seems pretty obvious why Python (and other programming 
 languages) don't offer the function that you were asking for.



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 03:38:48 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:38:48 +0000
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <mailman.1015996222.5426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8F1018.2020407@mxm.dk>

Jason Orendorff wrote:

> I'm going to attempt to explain how you can do this with Numeric
> Python, but you'll have to understand I have no clue what I'm
> doing scientifically.

Damn this is a good post!

Even I can understand it, and see why Nummeric is smart.

I have never looked at Nummeric as I believed that I had to do gene 
sequencing, neutron analysis or somesuch to find any use for it.

But I could see right here in this short example that there was several 
functions that I have unnessacerilly written myself recently in my 
bussines-logic apps.

So this just moved Nummeric several notches up on my to-learn list.

Thanks and regards Max M



From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 15:05:24 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:05:24 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8nf4q.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m at 4ax.com>, Courageous wrote:
> 
>>Hmm, I don't really see the difference in practice between
>>statically linking and installing a bunch of "private" DLLs
>>that are only used by my app.  In one case they're all in one
>>file, in the other case they're in a bunch of files that have
>>to be linked at run-time. In both cases none of the stuff is
>>being shared with anybody else, so it's not like putting things
>>in DLLs is saving any system resources -- though it perhaps
>>make the packaging simpler.
> 
> The case for the DLL is more obvious when what it is your
> distributing is a family of applications which live together.
> There may also be load time differences between an application
> that is statically linked and one that is dynamically linked.
> I seem to recall in my Unix days that using .so's dramatically
> quickened load times.

I would think that for an isolated app, .so's would slow down
load times.  With a statically linked program all you do is a
single memmap() call (well, ignoring a few details).  With
.so's you've actually got to resolve all of the symbols and do
the linking step (not required for statically linked images).

Since you've got the same number of bytes to swap in off disk,
that should be a wash.

If, most of the .so's are already paged in because they're
being used by other programs, then I can see that using .so's
could speed things up since you don't have to wait for the VM
system to page them into RAM.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Hello, GORRY-O!! I'm
                                  at               a GENIUS from HARVARD!!
                               visi.com            


From QnickQm at alum.mit.edu  Thu Mar 14 17:44:33 2002
From: QnickQm at alum.mit.edu (Nick Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:44:33 GMT
Subject: structseq and keywords?
References: <slrna8u819.130.quinn@vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu> <ulmcwsr38.fsf@python.net> <slrna8urp6.kb8.QnickQm@localhost.localdomain> <slrna8vitm.sl2.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna92a2c.tf.QnickQm@localhost.localdomain>

In article <slrna8vitm.sl2.quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>, Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:22:18 GMT, Nick Mathewson <QnickQm at alum.mit.edu> 
>     wrote:
>>I agree with this.  One of the explicit design decisions was that
>>since it's so easy to create a lookalike class in Python, there's not
>>a lot of reason to expose structseq as a metatype.
> 
> Ok, I guess what I really wanted was a DEFSTRUCT-like facility.  I'll use
> Michael's python StructSeq for that.  I was originally going to do things 
> that way, but some demon whispered and I decided not to, for whatever 
> reason.

Errr... quick question.  If all you want is DEFSTRUCT, are you sure you
need even a Python StructSeq?  

In other words, the point of my message was that, unless you're trying
to support legacy code, it's probably adequate just make something that
supports:

         x.a, x.b, x.c

but not have to deal with the cruft structseq does to make sure that 
legacy code can still say:

         x[0], x[1], x[2]

But-it's-your-program-not-mine-ly yrs,
-- 
 Nick Mathewson    <Q nick Q m at alum dot mit dot edu>
                      Remove Q's to respond.  No spam.


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Mar 16 21:17:24 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 04:17:24 +0200
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]> <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list@python.org> <ffqk8.25854$N7.5409309@ruti.visi.com> <a6tdvl$19mg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <slrna95mv0.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <kuk7scszt7.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrna95mv0.16c.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>, grante at visi.com
(Grant Edwards) writes:

| In article <a6tdvl$19mg$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:
|| C I/O basically sucks for this application.  When you ask for 1024,
|| fread is bound to get that amount, just as it is if you ask for a
|| line via fgets ("readline".)  If you omit the amount, you're asking
|| for all the data, won't return until the socket's other end closes.

| Sorry, with all the talk of sockets, I was thinking of the recv() call.

you can use os.read() to get s.recv() like functionality for any
fd.

  -- erno


From jolsen at mailme.dk  Thu Mar 14 07:07:39 2002
From: jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 04:07:39 -0800
Subject: XML-RPC Question
Message-ID: <cf0ad9fb.0203140407.2356290b@posting.google.com>

Has anyone used the SimpleXMLRPCServer class?

Setting up a server goes something like this:

    from SimpleXMLRPCServer import *

    class MyClass:
        def helloWorld(self):
            return "Hello World!"

        def echo(self, text):
            return text

    myob=MyClass()

    server=SimpleXMLRPCServer(("",50000))
    server.register_function(myob.helloWorld)
    server.serve_forever()

The server can now be accessed by a client, e.g.:

    import xmlrpclib

    srv=xmlrpclib.Server("http://localhost:50000")

    try:
        print srv.helloWorld()
        print srv.system.listMethods()
    except xmlrpclib.Error, v:
        print "Error", v

The first srv.helloWorld() call succeeds, but srv.system.listMethods() results
in a "Fault 1" exception "system.listMethods" is not supported...

Is there something wrong here, or does SimpleXMLRPCServer, not support
the listMethods() call?

Cheers
Jesper


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Mar  8 02:48:08 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 23:48:08 -0800
Subject: NoteTab Lite
References: <a677q4$7nj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <3C882A0C.DB4B81B8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203072348.5c6f7dce@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3C882A0C.DB4B81B8 at engcorp.com>...
> William Kennedy wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone use the NoteTab series of editors for their coding, 
> 
> Is this anything like the NotePad series of editors?  ;-)
> 
> > if so do they have a Python library I can have.
> 
> I confess to never having used the program, but I wonder if
> your question is very clear.  Does the editor use Python as
> a scripting language, and you want a library of routines?
> Or are you asking for a set of configuration options for
> working with Python code?  Or something else that isn't
> clear (to me)?
> 
> Hoping this isn't more obvious to others....
> 
> -Peter

Not very obvious, but a few seconds googling brings up a hint that the
OP is looking for a Python equivalent of the following:

PerlDE.zip; 15 Jun 01; Jason Waugh
Adds pretty much everything you would need to make NoteTab a Perl
development environment -- autocomplete of common structures, context
sensitive help for perl functions, help for perl packages, clips to
interact with ActiveState's Perl Package Manager (PPM), and more.


From mail at andreas-penzel.de  Wed Mar 27 04:52:23 2002
From: mail at andreas-penzel.de (Andreas Penzel)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:52:23 +0100
Subject: seek in a file
References: <mailman.1017185572.18490.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7s4q4$no0i9$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>

"Steven Majewski" wrote:

> Are the files too big to fit in memory ?

the file is about 1 MB, i have to test out working

> What do you want to do with the lines ?
> ( I hope you weren't planning on trying to modify a line in a file:
>   because of the variable length on lines, if you don't write
>   exactly the same number of chars back, you will either overwite
>   the next line, or leave an extra partial line after your edited
>   line. Most text editors read the whole file into memory and then
>   write out a new file after it's modified in memory. )

In the file are barcodes of products, one per line.
The program has to look if the scanned code from the barcode-scanner is
identically with one in the file included. This is important because the
barcode-scanner sometimes works not correct. All i need is an search-routine
that compares the scanned code with the codes in the file. If there is an
code, the programs waits for the next code.






From sven.NO.axelsson at bokochSPAMwebb.se  Wed Mar 13 07:21:21 2002
From: sven.NO.axelsson at bokochSPAMwebb.se (Sven Axelsson)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 13:21:21 +0100
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
References: <mailman.1015887440.17682.python-list@python.org> <c76ff6fc.0203111907.12122c8b@posting.google.com> <Xns91CF5F8D7A318duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Xns91D08815184B2svenaxelssonbokochwe@212.37.1.234>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in 
news:Xns91CF5F8D7A318duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1:

> sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote in 
> news:c76ff6fc.0203111907.12122c8b at posting.google.com:
> 
>> There's even a story that the date of
>> introduction in Sweden varied by parish!
> 
> Dont forget that Sweden even had a 30th February one year!
> 

Yes, the story is really strange. Sweden decided to make a gradual change 
from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar. By dropping every leap year 
from 1700 through 1740 the eleven superfluous days would be omitted and 
from 1 Mar 1740 they would be in sync with the Gregorian calendar. (But 
in the meantime they would be in sync with nobody!) 

So 1700 (which should have been a leap year in the Julian calendar) was 
not a leap year in Sweden. However, by mistake 1704 and 1708 became leap 
years. This left Sweden out of synchronisation with both the Julian and 
the Gregorian world, so they decided to go back to the Julian calendar. 
In order to do this, they inserted an extra day in 1712, making that year 
a double leap year! So in 1712, February had 30 days in Sweden. 

Later, in 1753, Sweden changed to the Gregorian calendar by dropping 11 
days like everyone else.


-- 
Sven Axelsson, Bok & webb
sven.NO.axelsson at bokochSPAMwebb.se


From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 25 09:03:52 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:03:52 +0000
Subject: Indentation problem
In-Reply-To: <3C9F2341.1000802@udcast.com>
References: <3C9F2341.1000802@udcast.com>
Message-ID: <20020325140352.GA22091@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 02:16:49PM +0100, Gilles Diribarne wrote:

> I've some problem with identing code. I'm allright with the example.
> But, I think it's important to have an "end" building block like "!:"
> 
> What do you think about that?

I think you're wrong to think that it's important to have such a
construct.  The reasons why I think that are:

  * It's clearly not necessary for the language to "work" (otherwise
    it wouldn't).  By that I mean we can write parsers, compilers,
    etc.

  * It's also in fact beneficial for a number of reasons, to do with
    readability, umambiguity, and elimination of religious wars, as
    discussed in an FAQ which I will link to later...

  * I haven't seen any arguments to convince me otherwise (including
    yours, which I'll examine shortly).

> Why I would like to put this in the code?
> 1/ Because it's almost impossible to paste python code with ident = n 
> spaces to another code with indent = m spaces

Is this a problem you've come across much?  Or just a hypothetical
situation?

I don't think it _is_ impossible, it just might be slightly hard work.
If the original programmers paid attention to the style guide, this
wouldn't be a problem of course.  And if you're dealing with enough
code for this to be problematic, I think you need to ask yourself if
copy-and-paste is the right thing to do...

> This kind of examples occurs more and more and you can indent the code 
> by hand when it's 10 lines of codes, but not 1000 code lines.
> It prevents the re-use of code pieces.

Only if copy-and-paste is the only way to re-use code pieces, which it
isn't.  I would hope that 1000 lines of code would be structured into
functions, classes, maybe even modules, in which case you probably
don't need to edit the code at all.  Just import the module and use
what you need.

I'm not saying that you should never copy-and-paste, though.
Sometimes, yes, it's the right thing to do.  In which case...

> 2/ Programmers wants independence: some wants to manage building blocks 
> with spaces, other with tabs, some wants length = 4 with tabs.
> I would like to use my own programming style! But, my code risks to be 
> not supported by others.

There's a python style guide here:

http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0008.html

If you care about your code being supported by others, I highly
recommend you read it and apply it.  It happens to recommend that you
use 4 spaces, and no tabs whatsoever.  Emacs mode in python takes care
of this very nicely.

You can't say in one breath that you want independence to write code
in any style you like, and then complain in the next breath that other
programmers, whose style differs, don't want to read it (and thus
don't want to use it because they don't understand it or trust it).
This is why it's _good_ that python doesn't use delimiters: we don't
have religious wars over where to put the braces.  OK, so we might
argue over how many spaces to use, but a) you get that argument in
languages with delimiters _too_, and b) Guido says 4, so use 4.  ;-)

> EXAMPLE:
>
> pythona.py:
>  def func():
>    a = 1
>    if a == 1:
>      a ==2
>
> pythonb.py
>    def func2():
>        a = 2
>        if a == 2:
>             print "Yeah!"
>
> You cannot merge correctly or tell me how to do this ?

Easy.  Let's say we want to keep 4 spaces of indentation, as Guido
recommends in the style guide - so we're going to change func() and
keep func2() as it is.  In our favourite editor we mark a region
covering all of func(), and use search-and-replace to turn all
occurrences of "  " (2 spaces) into "   " (4 spaces).  Tah-dah!  If
the code contains any strings which might have multiple spaces in
them, we'll need to be careful, but I think we can handle that.

Of course, this won't work if func() isn't self-consistent about its
indentation, but frankly I don't think func() deserves to run if
that's the case.  I don't know if python will let it or not, because
I've never tried.

By the way, I _think_ python-mode in emacs actually _is_ capable of
changing an entire document's indentation from n-spaces to m-spaces
automatically and intelligently, simply by changing a variable - but I
might be wrong.

> 3/ A large number of programming language use this. C, PERL, Ruby, ...
> Why not Python?

It's called "progress".

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq06.002.htp

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From vinjhodge at techemail.com  Mon Mar 18 00:05:54 2002
From: vinjhodge at techemail.com (Vincent)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:05:54
Subject: WORLDS #1 HOME BASED BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY!!
Message-ID: <UTC200203180005.BAA19633@bacchus.cwi.nl>

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From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Sun Mar 24 23:23:31 2002
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:31 +1100
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:43:36 -0800."
             <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJEENFJMAA.narnett@mccmedia.com> 
Message-ID: <20020325042331.0188B38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

>Is there something on Windows (Win2K, to be exact) that I need to do to make
>sure that print statements are actually output as soon as the statement is
>executed.

You could try sys.stdout.flush() after each print - stdio might be
buffering the output in block-sized chunks.

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/



From jim.jacobs at jacobshome.com  Sat Mar  9 19:54:25 2002
From: jim.jacobs at jacobshome.com (Jim Jacobs)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:54:25 -0500
Subject: Tkinter error
References: <a6duuu$37a$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <m3bsdx9yjs.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a6eat5$6lh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

The problem appears to be that I define enviroment variables for TK_LIBRARY
and TCL_LIBRARY.

Thanks,
Jim

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3bsdx9yjs.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Jim Jacobs" <jim.jacobs at jacobshome.com> writes:
>
> >    "self.tk = _tkinter.crate(screenName, baseName, className)
> > TclError:  Can't find a usuable init.tcl in the following directories:
[list
> > of directories]"
> >
> > Among the directories listed is the directory in which init.tcl is
located.
> > What gives?
>
> It wasn't usable :-) I have no clue why this would happen, but I know
> how to find out: use the source.
>
> Regards,
> Martin




From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Mon Mar 11 13:14:52 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:14:52 -0800
Subject: Learning  Python 2nd Edition???
References: <1001ff04.0203101710.46f27d85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8CF41C.1DB4987F@activestate.com>

Bob wrote:
> 
> Is there an "updated" Learning Python book in the works?

Yes.  Mark Lutz and I have started to work on it.  There's no precise
(or even vague) date for it hitting the shelves though (so much has
changed!).

-- David Ascher



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Mar 12 09:17:16 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 16:17:16 +0200
Subject: Raw Ethernet under Win32?
References: <slrna8r493.1m3.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <kun0xdhnv7.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrna8r493.1m3.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>, grante at visi.com
(Grant Edwards) writes:

| Is there any way to do raw Ethernet packets under Win32 Python?

i've heard there's a windows port of libpcap, and there's
pylibpcap. might work.

  -- erno


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 16:18:10 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:18:10 -0600
Subject: The language vs. the environment
Message-ID: <15494.34706.724985.628479@beluga.mojam.com>

There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to further
enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if more of this
energy was directed at the overall environment (library, support tools,
installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.

For the most part, I think the proposals currently on the table, while some
are very nice, aren't going to make a significant change in programmer
productivity, code maintainability or accessibility of the language by new
users.  I understand the lure.  I have succumbed to the lure myself on many
occasions.  It's cool to participate in a bit of language design, most of us
are pretty good programmers and we can project how we might use a particular
feature.  As Andrew Kuchling said on his page about the Frank Willison award
he received last month:

     Thanks to Guido, first, for writing a language that's both fun to hack
     in, and fun to hack on.

Still, even though Andrew is clearly a damn talented programmer, if you
think about what he's best known for in the Python community, it's likely
his "What's New" documents, e.g.:

    http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/

If you're looking for something to munch on, here are some suggestions, not
all of which require that you write code:

    * breathe some life into the catalog-sig:
          http://www.python.org/sigs/catalog-sig/

    * find a Python bug without a proposed fix and write one (there are
      currently between 250 and 300 open bug reports):
          http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

    * document an undocumented module from the standard library:
          http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/undoc.html

    * write a HOWTO (another of Andrew's little sideline projects!) about
      your little niche of Python expertise:
          http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From mcherm at destiny.com  Wed Mar 13 16:33:14 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:33:14 -0500
Subject: 15 minute presentation on python?
Message-ID: <3C8FC59A.407@destiny.com>

Ian Parker writes:
> I wow'd my audience by using Python with the win32 extensions to show 
> simple it was to load data (proxy server log files) into MS Excel.
       [...]


Congradulations! Glad it went so well. By the way, I'm doing a brief 
Python presentation in a couple of weeks... would you be interested in 
sharing your presentation?

-- Michael Chermside
    mcherm at destiny.com




From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar 21 13:00:41 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 18:00:41 GMT
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller wrote:
> I've thought a little bit more about this. IMO PEP 262 (database of
> installed packages) should be implemented, so that the database
> is updated by distutil's install command - then we can write a
> robust uninstall.

PEP 262 still has many, *many* XXX comments marking potential issues
that need to be cleared up before it can be implemented.  Most aren't
particulaly complicated, just cases where I'm not sure if a feature is
needed or if it's just extra fluff.  

Once those uncertainties are cleaned up, I'll try to get it
implemented for the Python 2.3 time frame.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
#1 rule of the intergalactic explorer, Doctor: if you hear somebody
talking about "good vibes" and "letting it all hang out", run a mile.
    -- Captain Cook, in "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy"


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Wed Mar  6 16:06:15 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:06:15 -0800
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <BC74F8F7E87DD511990C000103E2FEFA2F4E@XCHG>
References: <BC74F8F7E87DD511990C000103E2FEFA2F4E@XCHG>
Message-ID: <20020306210615.GF20722@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Christopher Encapera (ChrisE at lantech.com):
> [...]
> A child, or adult, is inherently flexible when it comes to syntax,
> but a computer is (inherently) not.
> [...]
> Thus, the need for jumping right into syntax immediately (if you
> want to produce anything even remotely meaningful)

A point well taken, but also note that when we set out to learn a new
language, the most effective teaching methodologies rely on pointing
out the patterns in that language very early on: you learn to
conjugate verbs, learn proper forms of address, etc. Later, you learn
more complicated variations on the patterns (past tense, past perfect
tense, possessives, prepositional phrases, etc).

Whereas the five-year-old will learn to speak by absorbing the
language "in the wild", the student will try to apprehend it by
absorbing the patterns, then learning the limits of those patterns
through application and introduction of new patterns.

These techniques are naturally more successful when the student is
immersed in an environment rich with opportunity to encounter those
limits.

> Also concerning logic, I think it would be (perhaps) more accurate
> to say that people think (and solve most of their problems) at a
> higher level of abstraction - more in the realm of "meanings" and
> "relationships" where many different kinds of knowledge and
> inter-connectedness come into play.

I think you're right. I'm trying to oversimplify intuition, or maybe
oversimplify what we're really talking about by calling it intuition.
Logic is both less subjective and less forgiving, and it operates at a
much more concrete level of thought.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts                <geoff at gerrietts net> 
"I have read your book and much like it." --Moses Hadas



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Mar 21 03:55:21 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:55:21 +0000
Subject: how to read full file into buff for re using?
References: <a7c32k$2l9g$1@news.cz.js.cn>
Message-ID: <3C999FF9.2010608@mxm.dk>

Zoom Quiet wrote:

> i'm chinese python fresh men; help please!
> how to read full file into buff for re object using?
> such as:
> re.sub()

f = open('file.txt', 'r')
content = f.read()
f.close()

More info her:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node9.html#SECTION009200000000000000000

> /======================\
> | Time is unimportant;
> | only life important!
> \======================/

But perhaps you should spend your time searching the web then ;-)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=python+opening+file+read+contents

regards Max M



From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar  3 03:54:20 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:54:20 +0100
Subject: PEP 234 little bug?
References: <3c817238@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <3C817FC1.A155DBAB@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <just-70EFBD.09542003032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <3C817FC1.A155DBAB at earthlink.net>,
 Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> > 
> > Just read through some of the already implemented PEPs.
> > 
> > PEP 234 (iterators) states:
> > 
> > >    - It has been proposed that a file object should be its own
> > >      iterator, with a next() method returning the next line.  This
> > >      has certain advantages, and makes it even clearer that this
> > >      iterator is destructive.  The disadvantage is that this would
> > >      make it even more painful to implement the "sticky
> > >      StopIteration" feature proposed in the previous bullet.
> > >
> > >      Resolution: this has been implemented.
> > 
> > I can't see a next() in a file object. Shouldn't it be
> > "Resolution: this has not been implemented." ?
> 
> Hm, I don't think so. I think it does not say that the *file*
> object should have a next() method... rather, it says that
> it's its own iterator, and the iterator has the next()
> method. Maybe the wording could have been a bit more careful,
> but essentially it's true what is says. And iterating over
> files has indeed been implemented in 2.2.

Just yesterday I've filed a bug about the current behavior that is 
caused by the fact that the file object is *not* its own iterator:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=524804&group_id=5470&atid
=105470

Just


From matthias_j at lycos.com  Sun Mar  3 10:26:29 2002
From: matthias_j at lycos.com (Matthias Janes)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 07:26:29 -0800
Subject: Can't seem to get it right: Win NT registry save and load
References: <d7d5ebdf.0203010908.113324ea@posting.google.com> <0aag8.8540$va.1091@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <d7d5ebdf.0203030726.49e10001@posting.google.com>

Thank's alot - you pushed me in the right way - I actually do not
realy need to save whole hiv but just a few keys.

Thanks - I thought this could work somehow like regedit's export
import feature
but properly it's not realy what I need.


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Wed Mar 20 09:56:05 2002
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh at aesaeion.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:56:05 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Java and Python
In-Reply-To: <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0203200752140.703-100000@aesaeion.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
>
> Way, way down the list of things I look for in a resume
> is the programming languages a candidate has.  Not entirely
> unimportant, but useful only taken as a whole.  I don't care
> whether somebody knows Python, and have found and hired
> only one such programmer yet (and not because he knew Python).
> The others had a variety of backgrounds including Java,
> C++, Delphi, VB, C, BASIC, assembly of various kinds,
> and so forth.  Those with only a single language, or
> maybe two, probably didn't get hired.  Those with a dozen
> were more able to demonstrate their flexibility to me.

The problem I have with someone learning lots of languages is that most of
what I have seen is that they never go beyond a surface level
understanding of the language. So you end up seeing people that can
essentially write C in any language or java etc. However in order to be
really productive you need to know a language and know it very well. I
would rather see someone that can demonstrate higher level mastery  with
one language then a surface level with many. You can't get to more
advanced features until you understand all of the basic features. However
once you learn those features you are in a better position to apply them
in another language.




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar  6 22:00:26 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:00:26 +1300
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8df64.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <3C86D7CA.F53189AE@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Steve Lamb wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
> wrote:
> > Did you try running range(n-1,0)?  What list did it give you?
> 
> >>> range(-10,0)
> >>> [-10, -9, -8, -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1]
> 
>     And?  How does this prove your point

The point was, I think, that

  >>> n = 10
  >>> range(n-1,-1,-1)
  [9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0]

but

  >>> foo = range(n-1,0)
  >>> foo.reverse()
  >>> foo
  []

> In your notation how would you do the following?
> 
> for x in range(n-1,-1,-2):

for 0 <= i < n/2:
  x = 2*i + 1
  ...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 25 10:05:37 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 10:05:37 -0500
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
References: <mailman.1017034718.25848.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7nec1$csv$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017034718.25848.python-list at python.org>,
Nick Arnett <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Peter Hansen
>>
>> By the way, how can Python code get "stuck"?  Is it a logic flaw,
>> or are you talking about the kind of "stuck" that used to happen,
>> in the "old days", when we were always writing code in languages
>> which would actually crash the computer?
>
>I'm using these vague adjectives because I can't tell what is
>happening.  Somewhere in the midst of retrieving pages with urllib and
>parsing them with sgmllib, everything seems to stop.  

Ah.  You're probably getting stuck in urllib.  You need to use
http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Wed Mar 13 04:12:01 2002
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:12:01 +0000
Subject: Scrolling line number Tkinter
References: <3C8E84AA.4070306@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a6n530$sia$1@mail1.wg.waii.com>

Fabien Henon wrote:

> I am currently writing a text editor for POV-RAY under Windows using
> Tkinter. It should be working as well with linux and Mac.
> 
> To display the line numbers, I use a scrolling column at the left of the
> editor with a text box.

Can you please explain what a scrollng column is? Perhaps if you post some 
code we could help some more.


> 
> I also linked the main text editor with a scroll.
> 
> My problem is that the text editor is well linked to the scroll, but the
> line numbers do not move when I use the arrow cursors.
> 
> Thanks for any help
> 
> Fabien

It sounds like you need to link both the scrolled column and text box to 
the same scrollbar....


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 18:38:19 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:38:19 +0000
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrnaac6kf.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnaacj3a.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:05:35 +0000, phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On 30 Mar 2002 01:36:43 -0800, Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>>Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:
>>>     Dear reviewers:
>>> 
>>>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>>>     following three issues:
>>> 
>>>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.
>>
>>I don't see much need for it.
>
>Nor do I. Python works OK as it is, asnd this proposal adds nothing 
>new semantically (because bool must act the similarly to int, for 
>compatibility). The only advantage I see is that code is slightly 
>more self-documenting, e.g.:
>
>      return True
>
>instead of:
> 
>      return 1

I've gone through some of my herbivore code, looking to see where 
I've used 0 or 1 as a boolean. Example 1:

debug = 0  # debugging this module?

Frankly, if that is unclear to anyone, they are not cut out to be a 
programmer. Bear in mind that most non-programmers are aware of the 
0/1 paradigm for boolean values: it appears on much electrical 
equipment.

Example 2:

CONFIG_DEFAULT_VALUES = {
   'dest': "file:mess_out_%(ix)s",
   'log': 1,
   'logItems': ["i", "ip", "o", "op", "cmd", "comment"],
   'logMessItems': ["From", "To", "Cc", "Bcc", "Subject", 
      "Message-Id", "X-Herbivore"],
   }


Here, the 1 value for 'log' means turn on logging, so could 
naturally be replaced by a boolean. These are default values for the 
config file; in the file they will look like:

log = 1

The file is executable Python code, and so could naturally be 
changed to:

log = True

if it is unclear. But (1) it isn't unclear, since the default config
file contains a comment before each config variable, saying what it
means -- and anyway there will be a GUI config tool for Herbivore,
and (2) Herbivore, by design is required to be easily installed;
specifically, the user shouldn't have to upgrade to a newer version
of Python, so I wouldn't be able to use booleans for a long time
after they'd been added.

So there would be no benefit for me at least in adding this feature.

Now we turn to the other side of the coin: would this proposal cause
problems. Contrary to my initial post, I see one place where it
might well do. Consider a program that communicates with instances
of the same program on other machines by way of Python data 
expressed as repr() strings. Each instance of this program will work 
on its own. Each instance will continue to work if Python on that 
machine is upgraded to a post-boolean version. But the upgraded and 
unupgraded will no longer be able to talk to each other if there are 
any boolean values being passed around. This could well be a 
hard-to-track-down error, since both versions will continue to work 
perfectly well on their own.

So because there seem to be few advantages, potential disadvantages, 
and because the proposal adds unnecessary complexity to the Python 
language in return for some superfluous syntactic sugar, I dislike 
this proposal.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Fri Mar 15 17:43:45 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:43:45 +1100
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3C927921.27E772D3@optushome.com.au>

dsavitsk wrote:
> 
> this is really embarassing :-)
> 
> >>> import win32com.client
> >>> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch('Excel.Application')
> >>> xl.WorksheetFunction.StDev(1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1)
> 11.565627361442019
> >>> xl.WorksheetFunction.Pearson((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
> -0.48507125007266594

Hmm, how about these legacy-free solutions...

Using Walter Moreira's RPy module ( http://rpy.sourceforge.net ) and R (
http://www.r-project.org ):

>>> from rpy import *
>>> r.var((1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1)) ** 0.5
11.565627361442019
>>> r.cor((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
-0.48507125007266594

Or using Gary Strangman's stats.py module (
http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/Neural_Systems_Group/gary/python.html ):

>>> from stats import *
>>> stdev((1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1))
11.565627361442017
>>> pearsonr((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
(-0.48507125007266594, 0.40754435760237651)

Note that stats.py also returns the 2-tailed p-value as well (which can
also easily be obtained from R via RPy).

Tim C



From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Mar 31 05:17:29 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:17:29 +0200
Subject: Most important extensions?
In-Reply-To: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203311215560.16276-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

SWIG, f2py, wxPython

On 30 Mar 2002, Aahz wrote:

> I'm teaching Python for [Perl] Programmers at OSCON this July.  I've
> already decided to mention mxODBC, NumPy, and PIL, plus PythonPoint (aka
> ReportLab) gets a mention on my title page.  I'd like this group to vote
> on the most important extensions for me to add to this list.  Please vote
> for no more than three.
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> 
> Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?
> 



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Mar 20 15:55:10 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:55:10 GMT
Subject: Unicode problem
References: <3c98f206.24909027@news.tiscali.no>
Message-ID: <OG6m8.26452$n4.5185028@newsc.telia.net>

gargravarr at whoever.com wrote:
> I have a problem with Unicode strings, the error I get is:
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> It is caused by
> body.write('<h2>%s</h2>\n' % i.firstChild.data)
>
> Where body is a StringIO object, and i is a xml.dom.minidom object.
> The characters it reacts to is the 3 Norwegian 'extra' ones: ?, ?, ?
>  (if you can see them)

if you don't tell Python what 8-bit encoding you want
to use for a Unicode string, Python will assume ASCII.

to convert to an 8-bit string with a known encoding,
use the encode method:

    s = i.firstChild.data.encode("iso-8859-1")

you should probably escape < > & too; consider using
something like:

    from cgi import escape

    def encode(s):
        if not s: return ""
        return escape(s.encode("iso-8859-1"))

    body.write('<h2>%s</h2>\n' % encode(i.firstChild.data))

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From ffjhenon at club-internet.fr  Sun Mar 17 16:51:25 2002
From: ffjhenon at club-internet.fr (Fabien Henon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:51:25 +0100
Subject: Linux endline
References: <3C932C41.2974C1DA@club-internet.fr> <gJKk8.25432$n4.4999467@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3C950FDD.4080005@club-internet.fr>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Fabien H?non wrote:
> 
>>1? When I use it under Linux I would like to get rid of the \r which
>>appears at the end of each line. ( I know there is a difference of
>>endline between Windows, Mac and Linux).
>>
> 
> how about
> 
> if line.endswith("\r\n"):
>     # deal with DOS file ending
>     line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> self.text.insert(END, line)
> 
> 
>>3? Is there a way to fire up an external application (like POV or a
>>modeler) in background
>>
> 
> look up "os.spawn" in the library reference.
> 
> </F>
> 
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->
> 
> 

Thanks I'll give it a try.

Fabien



From tbabbitt at commspeed.net  Thu Mar  7 11:04:45 2002
From: tbabbitt at commspeed.net (Tom Babbitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:04:45 -0700
Subject: Python and computer graphics
References: <3C8785EA.5010509@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <1015517388.720858@news.commspeed.net>

"husam" <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in message
news:3C8785EA.5010509 at student.kun.nl...
> hi,
> can anybody points me to usefull resources (books, urls) about using
> python for computer graphics that help for building skills in this
> subject from scrash?
>
> thanks in advance
>
A long time ago I read a book simply titled 3D computer graphics, I think it
was by some of the folks at pixar. My philosophy is not to spend too much
time at the bottom but go right to the top, check out

http://www.linmpi.mpg.de/dislin/

http://mayavi.sourceforge.net//index.html

http://pygame.seul.org/

Tom Babbitt






From heiko.wolf at dlr.de  Tue Mar 19 08:47:53 2002
From: heiko.wolf at dlr.de (Heiko Wolf)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 05:47:53 -0800
Subject: MPI changes the command line arguments
Message-ID: <d013da35.0203190547.79f7d5d3@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

I.ve got a Python script that should run parallel. So I access
MPI-funtions to put it on different processors. That works fine until
commandline arguments come into play... I want to pass a script file
that should be read.

For the first process, this works fine, the script file is simply
sys.argv[1]. But from the second process on, the name of the script
file is not in sys.argv anymore... MPICH just changes the commandline
parameters... But there is something even more astonishing:
As I pass the commandline arguments to the C-function MPI_init() and
do a printf() there, everything is in its right order, the name of the
script_file is just argv[1]!!!

Has anyone experienced similar problems?
What would be a solution for this?

Thanks, Heiko


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Mar  1 13:59:55 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 13:59:55 -0500
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEHBOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1014989103.23331.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u664g15ck.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> writes:

> No, but win32all does (for instance).  The point is, I never want my
> CD-based runtime to ever see the end user's install, if he/she has one.
> The programs I want to run from CD may get psycho if the local version
> has conflicting libraries, and in fact I have already encountered this
> problem (so it's not just theoretical).

You may not technically need to package things up, but if you use
Gordon McMillan's installer (or py2exe as well as I believe), they
will lock down your sys.path to the local installation.  So you could
build an image for your application using one of those tools, and
execute that from the CD.

Of course, this may not be perfect if you want the CD to work on both
Windows and Unix, but it would avoid needing to rebuild a different
python front-end for Windows.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 22 16:51:30 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:51:30 -0500
Subject: PySequence_Check is always true on instances?
In-Reply-To: <20020322182402.B7591@casa.parque>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEOIOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Walter Moreira]
> Hi. If I define a simple class
>
>    >>> class eggs:
>    ...     pass
>    >>> a = eggs()
>
> and I call PySequence_Check on the instance 'a', at C level, it
> returns 1.

Right.  This is an unfortunate consequence of the "type/class split" before
2.2:  all classic classes fill in all type method slots "just in case", so
pass all tests that just look for the existence of non-NULL method slots:

int
PySequence_Check(PyObject *s)
{
	return s != NULL && s->ob_type->tp_as_sequence &&
		s->ob_type->tp_as_sequence->sq_item != NULL;
}

> If the class is a new style class:
>
>    >>> class eggs(object):
>    ...     pass
>    >>> b = eggs()
>
> then PySequence_Check on 'b' returns 0. I proved this on Python
> 2.2 and 2.1 (couldn't download 2.2.1 yet).

That won't change in 2.2.1.

All old-style instances return true for these; whether a new-style instance
returns true depends on whether it inherits or directly defines the type
slots being examined.

> Is this a bug?

Not in the sense you're hoping for <wink>.

> If it is not a bug, which is the standard way to check that an
> object is sequence, in C?

There isn't one:  it depends on exactly what *you* mean by "a sequence".
It's a fuzzy concept in Python, and you'll find that PySequence_Check() is
rarely used in the core.  In most cases for 2.2, it's not a question worth
even trying to answer:  most "sequence contexts" in 2.2 were generalized to
allow any iterable object, and the core usually determines whether an object
is iterable by seeing whether PyObject_GetIter() returns NULL or not.




From mikeb at mitre.org  Tue Mar 19 10:35:36 2002
From: mikeb at mitre.org (Mike Brenner)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:35:36 -0500
Subject: Book Draft Available: Text Processing in Python
Message-ID: <3C975AC8.E9F02553@mitre.org>

David Mertz > ... I am working on a book called _Text Processing in Python_. ...

David, you might consider producing a text_tools.py library: a complete "textual bag of tricks" that you could give to the Python community. The book would then serve as the documentation for that library.

If you decide against this, a second possibility would be for you to focus that book to a user who will develop that library. In that case the book could set the direction and give the basic tools needed to produce the tools.

I will not at this time give a list of what I see as missing, because most of the chapters are not filled in, but it you take either of the above approaches, I will be happy to share what I feel would complete either the bag of tricks or the direction for developing the bag of tricks, when you are close to completing most of the chapters.




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  2 00:58:18 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:58:18 -0500
Subject: Use of select.select
In-Reply-To: <98a8b53e.0203011656.7aaad470@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELMOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[MShyam]
> Our product embeds python in C++ and in our
> py methods, we use select.select in several
> places. When purifying the executable, we
> find that when select.select(...) is executed,
> we find several BSWs, BSRs, IPWs and IPRs
> (beyond stack writes/reads, invalid pointer
> writes/reads). Has such a problem been reported?
> What's the fix? We're using python 1.5.2.

I strongly advise you try a more recent release (like 2.1.2).  1.5.2 is
nearly 3 years old, never had a bugfix release, and nobody is likely to
remember 1.5.2 details accurately anymore.  More recent versions have also
been run under Insure by other people.

Short of that, I expect you won't get much help.  You can view the CVS
history of selectmodule.c online at

<http://cvs.sf.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/>

then navigate to Modules and then to selectmodule.c.  Revision 2.28 was
released in 1.5.2; it's currently at revision 2.60.




From neal at metaslash.com  Mon Mar 18 18:36:51 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:36:51 -0500
Subject: Generating getter methods with exec
References: <3C964E1A.84D5A26B@ndh.net> <3C96569F.8E76FA6E@metaslash.com> <3C966323.A522D680@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <3C967A13.C6074484@metaslash.com>

Stefan Schwarzer wrote:
> 
> Hello Neal
> 
> thank you for your answer. :)
> 
> Neal Norwitz wrote:
> > You don't need to generate code.  This should do what you want:
> >
> > class GetterTest:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
> >                       'key2': 'two',
> >                       'key3': 'three'}
> >
> >     def __getattr__(self, attr):
> >         try:
> >             return self._dict[attr]
> >         except KeyError:
> >             raise AttributeError, "getting attribute '%s'" % attr
> >
> > >>> g = GetterTest()
> > >>> g.key1
> > 'one'
> > >>> g.key2
> > 'two'
> > >>> g.key3
> > 'three'
> > >>> g.key4
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "<stdin>", line 8, in __getattr__
> > AttributeError: getting attribute 'key4'
> 
> Yes, that's the straightforward solution. :-)
>
> On the other hand, what I posted was a simplified example. Finally, I
> will have several dictionary-like objects and not all of their items
> should be accessible by get/set methods (only some of the corresponding
> attributes belong to the public interface). I'm a bit afraid the overhead
> of dynamically making all the decisions for every access might be slow
> (though it may well be that all will be fast enough).
> 
> So to rephrase the problem a bit: I would like to generate simple getters
> and setters with rather little decision overhead during the actual accesses.

:-) Well in that case:

class GetterTest1:
    def __init__(self):
        self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
                      'key2': 'two',
                      'key3': 'three'}

    def _make_getters(self, dict_name, key_list):
        for key in key_list:
            code = "def %(key)s(): return %(dict_name)s['%(key)s']\n" % vars()
            exec code in self.__dict__, self.__dict__

-----------------

The problem is the distinction between bound vs unbound methods.
BTW, this version is about 3 times faster than the previous.  It
took .03 seconds to call key1 10,000 times vs. .1 seconds.

Neal


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar 28 15:07:10 2002
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:07:10 -0500
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
In-Reply-To: <20020328112544.A13176@ActiveState.com>
References: <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nqhs$n13nl$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa1mlo.anq.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <20020328112544.A13176@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <20020328200710.GA26312@crystal.mems-exchange.org>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:25:44AM -0800, Trent Mick wrote:
>Yes, a couple of tags were added under the <IMPLEMENTATION> tag to enable a
>PPD to decribe (1) what language it is suitable for (in our current usage,
>Perl or Python) and (2) what range of versions of that language interpreter
>it will work for.

OK, those changes seem straightforward and can be handled when the
time comes.

Here's another question: is there any explanation of how version
numbers are handled?  distutils/version.py has extensive examples in
the docstrings for the StrictVersion and LooseVersion classes, and I'm
wondering how they'd be mapped to PPD's version tuples.  The PPD man
page on aspn.activestate.com gives an example version tuple as
"4,2,0,0", but it's not clear how that maps to a version number, or
what a version number such as 2.2.1a3 would be translated to as a
tuple.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Is this thing reliable?
    -- Grace, asking about the TARDIS, in "The Enemy Within"






From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 12 07:32:03 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:32:03 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net>

Martin Kaufmann <martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> writes:

> Hello Newsgroup
> 
> I'm trying to write a program to calculate diffraction patterns for
> electron diffraction on clusters (100-10'000 atoms). So far I used
> Python only for CGI programming and system tools (on a rather low
> level...). Therefore I don't know whether it's reasonable to program
> such a project in Python (I really like the language). Presently my
> man concern is speed as the main function of the program is a nested
> loop, the inner over several 1000 bins of a histogram and the outer
> over several 1000 values of scattering factors. In the end I should be
> able to simulate diffraction patterns and compare them to the
> experimental data (i.e. run this function several times).
> 
> Now my questions: Would it be best to
> 
> (a) write the whole program in C/C++ (I know only the basics of C but
> it would be a good "excuse" to learn it...)?

Well, you're unlikely to get advised to do this here :)

> (b) write the main program in Python but the heavy calculations in C
> (I played today with scipy.weave -- the speed is much better but I
> didn't really understand what I was doing...)?

This is probably the better option, but first...

> (c) program it in Python and don't care about speed (or buy a new
> workstation...)?

... I'd do this.  Write your algorithm in Python.  Run it on small
examples to test.  See if it's fast enough to run your real problems.
If it's not, go for (b).  It may be possible that modules already
exist to do the heavy lifting -- e.g. Numeric.  It's hard to say for
certain without knowing more about your algorithms.

Things like weave and PyInline may help.

> Are there any libraries or other resources that would help? I used the
> Scientific Python library for the histogram but it was much slower
> than my DIY approach.

Maybe you could submit better code to the SciPy project?

> I hope my questions are not too much OT. 

Don't think so myself.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  CLiki pages can be edited by anybody at any time. Imagine the most
  fearsomely comprehensive legal disclaimer you have ever seen, and
  double it                        -- http://ww.telent.net/cliki/index


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 10:04:20 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:04:20 GMT
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <3CA1BB93.FC00D40D@pop.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <Ublo8.87940$7b.7842093@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"a.clarke11" <a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3CA1BB93.FC00D40D at pop.ntlworld.com...
> Hi
> I defined a class, and made an instance. The class sis not have a
> def__init__() line.

A class statement may optionally have a body that defines *class*
attributes (members and methods).  The body may optionally include an
__init__(self, args) method, which is mostly used for initialing
*instance* attributes immediately after the creation of a new (and
blank) instance.  When you try to read instance.name, the interpreter
first looks in the instance dictionary for instance attribute 'name'.
If it does not find it, it then looks in the class dictionary for
class attribute 'name'.  (And if there are base classes, it will look
thru their dicts also if necessary.)

> In the class, I defined a function  f(x) and an list
> object X.tiles. Why can I later call instancename.f, and
> instancename.tiles?

Because that is how Python classes work, as explained above.

Terry J. Reedy







From maric.michaud at cirec.com  Thu Mar  7 12:09:59 2002
From: maric.michaud at cirec.com (Maric)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:09:59 +0100
Subject: popen3 on win32 python:2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <3C879869.3090803@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <005301c1c5fa$ea59e3e0$470010ac@GERLAND2.local>

We had a similar problem on linux using popen3 to manage cdrecord and
mkisofs.
These two programs for some unknown reasons (not in all cases) doesn't close
standard error output and continuously send null char in it.
We resolve it by waiting for process to send null chars either on standard
and standard error output (while process running correctly this doesn't
happen) and then close the pipe.
The child now can shutdown properly.
Works fine.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Thomas Guettler [mailto:st-newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de]
Envoy? : jeudi 7 mars 2002 17:42
? : python-list at python.org
Objet : popen3 on win32 python:2.1.2


Hi!

popen3() hangs on W2K:

(stdin, stdout, stderr)=popen3('wvWare -x wvware.xml foo.doc')
text=stdout.read()

--> read() never ends.

It works if wvware produces few output, but with larger files it hangs
(0% CPU usage).

wvware is a binary from gnuwin32.sourceforge.net

I use the python version which comes with zope: 2.1.2
Platform: Windows 2000 SP2

Is this a know problem? Are there workarounds?

  thomas



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Tue Mar 26 22:45:34 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:45:34 -0800
Subject: question on slices
References: <rj7v9ug37qguulsuocutqr5mfdh9p4c8ee@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-8D9590.19453426032002@corp.supernews.com>

In article <rj7v9ug37qguulsuocutqr5mfdh9p4c8ee at 4ax.com>,
 John Warney <john at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I am sorta new to programming, i have had an intro to programming
> using C++ and thats it.  Other than that i have kinda read a few
> things but now i am into Python.....blah blah blah.....
> The issue that i have a problem with is slices.  for instance let me
> show you a snippet:
> 
> >>> numlist=[0, 1, 2, 3]
> >>> numlist[1]
> 1
> >>> numlist[2]
> 2
> >>> numlist[1:2]
> [1]
> 
> This last one doesnt make since to me since i am asking for a range
> from 1-2.  Why in the world does it give me 1 when i am asking for 1-2
> which would logically be:
> 
> >>> numlist[1:2]
> [1, 2]
> 
> but it's not. it doesnt make since.  Just seems strange when i just
> was in a C++ class and it would do the logical thing.

You think you are asking for the elements from 1 *through* 2.

You aren't...instead, you are asking for the elements from 1 through 
just before 2.  Before you say how clearly bogus that is, play around 
with slices given the above and note how consistently they work, 
particularly with negative (counting from the ends) numbers given.

Also, note that
numlist=[0, 1, 2, 3]
otherlist = numlist[0:2] + numlist[2:]
print otherlist

makes sense...ie, otherlist looks the same as numlist.  No need to fudge 
with a +1 or a -1 to make that happen.

  --john


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar 11 11:59:25 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:59:25 +0300
Subject: equivalent of "export" (changing parent's environment)
In-Reply-To: <20020311115016.A35060@doublegemini.com>; from cce@clarkevans.com on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:50:16AM -0500
References: <20020311115016.A35060@doublegemini.com>
Message-ID: <20020311195925.B364@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:50:16AM -0500, Clark C . Evans wrote:
> Hello.  I have two shell scripts, a.sh and b.sh such
> that a.sh calls b.sh, and b.sh uses "export key=value"
> to set some defaults used later on in a.sh.

   There is something wrong in your explanation (or understanding). There
is no way b.sh can change *anything* in a.sh environment. Either a.sh just
"source" (inclide) b.sh (not exec, but source), or b.sh returns new
environment to a.sh using echo (and a.sh executes generated commands).

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 02:54:42 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 23:54:42 -0800
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203132354.642efe36@posting.google.com>

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message news:<OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...
> hi all,
> 
> never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking advice on how
> to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need to find
> standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am seeking
> advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i am
> wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the task.

here's a good start:

http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/Neural_Systems_Group/gary/python.html
for some nice pure python statistical function implementations.

Orange, the super cool python machine learning system also includes an
extension called statc.dll which has some fast functions.
http://magix.fri.uni-lj.si/orange/

a data mining extension to orange for clustering and whatnot is also
available:
http://ai.fri.uni-lj.si/~aleks/orng/

There is the fine and well-documented python Numeric library:
http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/

Scipy - scientific tools for python (includes a version of Numeric):
http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/

And, of course, there is Scientific Python:
http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/scientific.html

all of these, like python, are fun, fun, fun...

enjoy (-:

Sandy


From jriveramerla at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 19:17:15 2002
From: jriveramerla at yahoo.com (Jose Rivera)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 16:17:15 -0800
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
Message-ID: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com>

Hi...

Thanks in advance for any help...

I want to retrieve data from the web for historic research 
about real state prices, fetching the info from a newspaper page, 
for personal use, loading this to MySQL DataBase for later study on
trends, but I don't want to be doing this procedure manually every
day.

But this routine just gives me an error, please try it 
and see whats wrong?, I have not found what am I missing.

When I try the address genereated by the code directly on the
iExplorer.EXE, it works... but not on Python...

This is the routine:
--------------------
import os
import urllib

params={}
params["pagina"] = 1
params["Presentacion"] = "Tabla"
params["Tipo"] = "CASAS"
params["Order"] = "Order By Fecha Desc"
params["id_inmueble"] = "3"
params["zona"] = "0"
params["COLONIA"] = "0"
params["RECAMARAS"] = "0"
params["BANOS"] = "0"
params["dia"] = 	''
params["PLANTAS"] = "0"
params["Constr_i"] = "-1"
params["constr_f"] = "-1"
params["Terreno_i"] = "-1"
params["Terreno_f"] = "-1"
params["Precio_i"] = "-1"
params["Precio_f"] = "-1"
params["fotos"] = "0"

# This is the address calculated
#http://avisos.elnorte.com/casa_venta_result.asp?fotos=0&Order=order+by+colonia&Precio_i=-1&Presentacion=Tabla&Precio_f=-1&PLANTAS=0&pagina=1&id_inmueble=3&dia=&RECAMARAS=0&constr_f=-1&COLONIA=0&BANOS=0&Tipo=CASAS&Constr_i=-1&Terreno_i=-1&Terreno_f=-1&zona=0

pms=urllib.urlencode(params)
direccion="HTTP://AVISOS.ELNORTE.COM/casa_venta_result.asp?%s"%pms
#print direccion
f=urllib.urlopen(direccion)

ff=open('xc.htm','w')
ff.write('<strong>'+direccion+'<\br>')
ff.write(f.read())
ff.close

os.system('start xc.htm')


From ballabio at mac.com  Tue Mar 26 10:30:37 2002
From: ballabio at mac.com (Luigi Ballabio)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:30:37 +0000
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
In-Reply-To: <E16prDC-0006je-00@mail.python.org>
References: <a7pm9i$86t$1@news.hccnet.nl>
 <mailman.1017132640.22480.python-list@python.org>
 <a7pm9i$86t$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326152905.00a5e0a0@mail.mac.com>

At 02:41 PM 3/26/02 +0100, Tjabo Kloppenburg wrote:
>or, in python 2.2 syntax:
>
>   def __iter__(self):
>     self.ptr = 0
>     return self
>
>   def next(self):
>      if self.ptr < (len(self.__records) - 1):
>        self.ptr = self.ptr + 1
>        return self.__records[self.ptr]
>      else:
>        raise StopIteration

   def __iter__(self):
     return iter(self.__records)

should do the job without having to go through all that machinery...

Bye,
         Luigi




From see at below  Mon Mar 11 07:05:11 2002
From: see at below (Paul Foley)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 01:05:11 +1300
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com> <WAui8.3186$bK5.428@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <m2d6ybpd5u.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <m27kojpax4.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On 12 Mar 2002 00:16:45 +1300, I wrote:

>   (defun eval (form)
>     (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () , at form))))

Yikes; better make that `(lambda () ,form)

-- 
Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time
to reform.                                                  -- Mark Twain

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 12 18:28:00 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 23:28:00 GMT
Subject: Anonymous attribute/property possible?
References: <a6bdpt$lop$0@216.39.172.122> <uzo1f2xbl.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a6m2u0$le3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:46:13 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> A class with an anonymous attribute/property would provide a place to put
>> get/set/del-triggered code.
>> 
>> Use of an object with an anonymous property in an expression
>> or statement would result in calling the get/set methods defined.
>> 
>> Thus you could write foo(bar) with the effect of foo(bar.__anonymous__)
>> and bar() with the effect of bar.__anonymous__()
>> 
>> And bar = baz with the effect of bar.__anonymous__ = baz.
>> 
>> But since __anonymous__ could be a property, you could define
>> methods at will (e.g., get_bar, and set_bar) and write
>> bar = baz with the effect bar.set_bar(baz) and
>> foo(bar) with the effect foo(bar.get_bar())
>> 
>> This might work nicely with an interpolated-string class.
>> E.g.,
>>   is = IS('The get_is anonymous property method will interpolate $variables')
>>   print is # the reference would trigger interpolation with current values
>>            # you could do this now, but you'd have to write "print is.some_property"
>> 
>
>Ouch.
>
Where does it hurt ;-)

>> If you wanted to access the actual object that had an anonymous
>> property, you'd have to give it a named method returning self for
>> that purpose.
Or obj.self, better.
>> 
>> I think this could open up a whole world of scary delights ;-)
>> (And ISTM without a backwards compatibility problem).
>
>Just in case the fact that this is a horrible idea doesn't put you off
><wink>, how would you implement this without a fairly huge performance
>hit?  LOAD_FAST is currently, well, fast.
>
Well, I was avoiding premature optimization ;-)

I'm not seriously advocating this. I just wanted to explore the notion
a little. I should look at the code, but if LOAD_FAST gets a pointer
to the object representation, it might not be so bad to check a boolean
value cached therein to see if __anonymous__ magic was associated.

I'm not suggesting a lookup in the object's attribute dict to see if it has
the __anonymous__ attribute at run time. Adding or deleting .__anonymous__
dynamically would have restrictions. I'm thinking a flag bit in some standard
lowlevel object representation slot indicating presence of the __anonymous__
attribute, which could be checked with a test and jump (if there is already a
representation type code used in a switch, maybe a new case wouldn't add any new
overhead).

You might need a LOAD_SELF byte code for references to the object itself where
*no* __anonymous__ flag check was to be made, which the compiler would
generate from a reference to obj.self as a reserved attribute name. Thus obj.self
would generate LOAD_SELF obj and obj would generate LOAD_FAST obj.

Anyway, if the flag was set, it would mean that there was an implicit
LOAD_ATTR or STORE_ATTR using __anonymous__, which could presumably share
normal code for those.

Thinking-via-the-keyboard-again-ly ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Mar 26 09:23:54 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:54 +0100
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
References: <mailman.1017132640.22480.python-list@python.org> <a7pm9i$86t$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1017150220.26266.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-5CA804.15235426032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1017150220.26266.python-list at python.org>,
 Tjabo Kloppenburg <t.kloppenburg at billiton.de> wrote:

> or, in python 2.2 syntax:
> 
> >     def __getitem__(self,i):
> >         return self.__records[i]
> 
>   def __iter__(self):
>     self.ptr = 0
>     return self
> 
>   def next(self):
>      if self.ptr < (len(self.__records) - 1):
>        self.ptr = self.ptr + 1
>        return self.__records[self.ptr]
>      else:
>        raise StopIteration

But that's different! In the "old-style" iterator the next bit will work 
as expected:

  for entry1 in db:
      for entry2 in db:
          ...

But with the way you wrote the new-style iterator it won't. It's also 
not thread-safe.

Just


From mpoulin at verinet.com  Sat Mar 23 09:54:56 2002
From: mpoulin at verinet.com (Marc Poulin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:54:56 -0500
Subject: Packaging tool
References: <mailman.1016846255.11127.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c9cb2b9$0$4057$7586b60c@news.frii.com>

There are Python front-ends to both rpm and dpkg:

http://www.megaloman.com/~hany/RPM/RByName.html
http://packages.debian.org/stable/devel/dpkg-python.html

Are these suitable for your needs?


In article <mailman.1016846255.11127.python-list at python.org>, "mohamed
lazreg" <md_lazreg at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- Gillou <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> "make" seems to be what you're looking for. It's not in python, but it
>> does the job.
> 
> Nice try...:):):P. By a packaging tool I do not mean a make utility. I
> have in mind some thing like dpkg, the Debian package management system.
> (but I would like to have it in python).
> 
> Thank you anyway...


From thomas at weholt.org  Sat Mar 23 12:42:54 2002
From: thomas at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:42:54 GMT
Subject: When to use locks in a threaded Web-server
Message-ID: <y83n8.15186$eJ6.285255@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

I got a web-server project based on BaseHTTPServer using threads (
SocketServer.ThreadingMixin ). What do I have to do to make it "safe",
thread-wise? When do I have to aquire locks to set variables in a) the
webserver itself or b) in variables in the given requesthandler ??

I thought each request would be handled using a seperate thread using this
method, ie. no locking required for altering stuff inside the requesthandler
alone. Is this correct? Is each handler a fresh new instance of the custom
requesthandler-class?

My assumptions lead me to think that I only have to use locks when changing
things in the global thread, the webserver, both from the requesthandlers
and inside the thread itself, ie. if the webserver alters variables in the
webserver. Correct?

Below are some code to examplify :

The HTTP-server

class HTTPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn, BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
    def __init__(self, root, hostaddress, port, handler, static_folder =
None):
        BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer.__init__(self, (hostaddress, port),
handler)
        self.var1 = 1

The custom requesthandler :

class RequestHandler(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
    def __init__(self):
        BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler.__init__(self, ....)
        self.svar1 = 1

    def do_GET(self):
        # something
        self.server.var1 = 100
        self.svar1 = 100

What variables requires a lock to be safe? var1 in HTTPServer? svar1 in the
RequestHandler? Other situations I'll have to watch out for?

Any clues, hints etc. appreciated.

Best regards,
Thomas Weholt




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 25 09:58:17 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 09:58:17 -0500
Subject: Root access with python
References: <d906b2c1.0203250237.60f6ad12@posting.google.com> <7x663krjtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <a7ndu9$bme$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <7x663krjtp.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>mtaylor at lowebroadway.com (Moray Taylor) writes:
>>
>> I want to know how to run a 'root' command with python, i.e. mounting
>> an NFS drive.
>> 
>> On the terminal, you would do a 'su', type your password, then enter
>> the command you wanted to run. How is this achieved within Python?
>> 
>> My purpose is to make a small GUI app with PyQT to make mounting NFS 
>> volumes easier, I can handle the GUI bit, but I don't understand how
>> to 'su'.
>
>Don't try to do that unless you REALLY know what you're doing with
>security implementation.
>
>Instead, run "su" the usual way and type your password to get a root
>shell, then launch your GUI app from the root shell.

Good advice.  Nevertheless, if Moray wants to shoot zirself in the foot,
zie should take a look at os.setuid().
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 18 11:27:07 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:27:07 GMT
Subject: Old File Purge Suggestions?
References: <1W9l8.176946$Dl4.19853391@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com> <Xns91D512648DF00cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <vzol8.25973$n4.5087142@newsc.telia.net>

Chris Liechti wrote:

> > I'm using sys.stdin.readlines(): getting the date passed in from
> > from "ls -l" (linux). Then compare dates using the mxDateTime
>
> i think os.stat gives you the same information as "ls -l" and you
> don't have to parse strings (use os.listdir to get the names and then
> stat on them)

os.path.getmtime is a bit easier to use, e.g:

import time, os

now = time.time()
max_age = 3 * 86400 # three days

for file in os.listdir(directory):
    fullname = os.path.join(directory, file)
    if now - os.path.getmtime(fullname) > max_age:
        print "remove", fullname
        # os.remove(fullname)

</F>




From DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org  Fri Mar  1 09:13:32 2002
From: DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org (DeepBleu)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:13:32 -0600
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex@netWindows.org> <Xns91C39C93F933Edenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.23>
Message-ID: <u7v372preds40a@corp.supernews.com>

"Dennis Roark" <denro at NSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns91C39C93F933Edenroearthlinknet at 207.217.77.23...
> Alex Russell <alex at netWindows.org> wrote in
> news:20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex at netWindows.org:
>
[....................]
>That the D & D book
> came out in Python was more of an indication of Python going mainstream,
> and for that I celebrate it.
>
This is the only saving grace of this book.  What is so sad is that they'll
end up making tons of money (to my knowledge, two of their books are
textbooks:  C++ and Java) with their money making publishing machines while
someone like Mark Hammond can not find a job.
Of course not to mention that they may be probably going ahead for plans for
a book on Python (Complete Python Lab maybe) with a CD and start their won
consulting business on Python.  Rediculous!
Then of course we'll see some professors assigning the D & D Python book as
a textbook on a scripting language.  How disgusting!
DeepBleu





From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar 31 09:26:28 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:26:28 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017537656.7159.python-list@python.org> <m3sn6hm376.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <roy-11EFDD.09262831032002@news1.panix.com>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote:
> Your list of alternatives that reek in comparison was
> puzzling. int(bool(obj)) doesn't reek to me: it is obvious what it
> does, it does that efficiently, and it requires less typing than
> operator.truth(obj).

Seems to me, obj.bool().int() would be the obvious way.


From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Mar  5 18:22:14 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:22:14 -0800
Subject: python IDE, komodo
In-Reply-To: <3c854cbd$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <005101c1c49c$95b69e00$445d4540@Dell2>

Jamie Carl wrote:
> > Komodo is good, but I am biased. :)
> > Take a look at:
> >     http://www.python.org/editors/
> >
> 
> Didn't he say free would be nice?  Komodo isn't free.

If he [Marcus] is serious about debugging, I think that IDLE-fork
(http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/) is the only free IDE with the ability
to debug scripts in a separate process (Komodo has this ability).

For tracing (code converage?) and profile tools, he can just look at the
scripts that ship with Python. I don't think that any of the IDEs have
any significant level of integration.

One important thing to note is that Komodo doesn't have an interactive
shell (which all of the free IDEs do). 

Anyway, why not just try Komodo and see if it works for you?

Cheers,
Brian 




From QnickQm at alum.mit.edu  Mon Mar  4 18:06:55 2002
From: QnickQm at alum.mit.edu (Nick Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:06:55 GMT
Subject: Problem with SRE's regular expressions
References: <3C83D5C6.7010303@free.fr> <W5Rg8.29781$l93.5779533@newsb.telia.net> <3C83EA12.5030406@free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrna87vme.9nv.QnickQm@localhost.localdomain>

In article <3C83EA12.5030406 at free.fr>, Christophe Delord wrote:
> Thanks for your explanation!
> 
> In my real program, I had a more complex regexp. I need to match text 
> enclosed in << ... >>
> I first have used such an expression : <<([^>]|>[^>])*>>
> but I prefered <<.*?>> because it is more readable.
> 
> I'll listen to the advice and use my old regexp to see how faster it is 
> this way ;-)
> 
> Thanks,
> Christophe.

#
# Actually, it looks like you can do at least sixty times better than
# the re you have above.
#

import sys, time, re

print sys.version

def timefn(fn):
    t = time.time()
    fn()
    t = time.time() - t
    print "%40s %f" % (fn.__name__, t)

m#Very Long String 
vls = "<<" + " <that's still a very very big string!> "*100 + ">>"

def simple_version():
    ' This is the version from your post '
    r = re.compile(r'<<([^>]|>[^>])*>>')
    for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)

def non_grouping_match():
    ' This one uses non-grouping matches '
    r = re.compile(r'<<(?:[^>]|>[^>])*>>')
    for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)

def match_with_big_groups():
    ''' This one uses [^>]+ inside the group, in order to make each group
        as large as possible. '''
    r = re.compile(r'<<([^>]+|>[^>])*>>')
    for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)

def non_grouping_match_with_big_groups():
    ' This version uses both of the above tricks. '
    r = re.compile(r'<<(?:[^>]+|>[^>])*>>')
    for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)

def nongreedy_match():
    " And for comparison, here's the one with the nongreedy match. "
    r = re.compile(r'<<.*?>>')
    for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)


timefn(simple_version)
timefn(non_grouping_match)
timefn(match_with_big_groups)
timefn(non_grouping_match_with_big_groups)
timefn(nongreedy_match)

#
# Platform:
#    2.2+ (#30, Jan 29 2002, 21:20:45) 
#    [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)]
#
# OUTPUT
#                          simple_version 37.967640
#                      non_grouping_match 34.108361
#                   match_with_big_groups 0.818009
#      non_grouping_match_with_big_groups 0.634849
#                         nongreedy_match 16.892410

So it looks like the big win is to use [^>]+ inside your parenthesis.
It's a slight improvement to use (?: ) instead of ( ), but not much.

Bonus observation 1: In this case, the overhead from matching a
parenthesized expression over and over is more than than the
backtracking overhead from '.*?' .

Bonus observation 2: I purposefully put some '>' characters into the
test string.  When I took them out, I found that the 60X performance
improvement turned into a 332X performance.  Thus, the winning pattern
above is fastest of all when the parenthesized expression matches only
once.

It-looks-like-I'm-going-to-have-to-go-rewrite-all-the-scanners-I'm-
  maintaining-ly Y'rs

-- 
 Nick Mathewson    <Q nick Q m at alum dot mit dot edu>
                      Remove Q's to respond.  No spam.


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Mar  5 16:37:39 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:37:39 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015362490.415.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-20C872.13373905032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015362490.415.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> And note again also, that (the equivalent of)
> 
>     def __contains__(self,x):
>         raise TypeError
> 
> could be added to class int if the anguish proved to be insurmountable <0.1
> wink>.

That would cause me much more anguish than even PEP 276 in its present 
form.

I really like the fact that "for ...stuff..." loops over exactly those 
values for which "...stuff..." is true.  I don't want to see that broken.


From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Sat Mar  2 04:57:15 2002
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:57:15 -0100
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c8087eb$0$18514$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>

Ron Stephens wrote:

> I am thinking of buying a "home" license of Black Adder, to use for
> making GUI's for Python programs to be used on Linux+KDE and also
> perhaps for the new Sharp Zaurus. Does anyone have any experience with
> Black Adder that they can share? One of my main reasons for wanting
> Black Adder is to use the GUI builder, so I am particualrly interested
> in opinions about that aspect of Black Adder, but I am also interested
> in other aspects as well.
> 
> One question I have concerns licensing. If I buy the "home" version,
> could I still share my programs as GPL'ed open source, or would that
> require me to buy the "professional" license, which is much more
> expensive? In other words, my programs would never be used in any
> commercial way but I might want to post them as open source, free
> software.
> 
> I know Black Adder is still in beta, but is it stable enoough to use
> already? I suppose I should ask how it compares to PythonWare amd
> WingIDE, but I kind of favor the PyQt toolkit becuase it will
> hopefully work well on the Sharp Zaurus as well as the KDE desktop.


I think WingIDE is a better IDE -- but it doesn't include the GUI 
designer. The gui designer is, in fact, just the Qt Designer as included 
with Qt, so you could you use that, but you'd lose all the nice integration.

With the latest version of PyQt, you can compile Qt 3 .ui files to Python,
too, but that's not part of BlackAdder yet.

Have you seen that my book on PyQt and BlackAdder is out? You can order
it at opendocs.org (never mind that the website still says it's in
final copy-edit -- copies are shipping now, only Joshua is a bit slow
updating), or read it online. But the paper copy is very pleasant 
possession :-).

-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From mcherm at destiny.com  Mon Mar 25 18:00:29 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:00:29 -0500
Subject: question on slices
Message-ID: <3C9FAC0D.2050306@destiny.com>

>>>> numlist[1:2]
> [1]
> 
> This last one doesnt make since to me since i am asking for a range
> from 1-2.  Why in the world does it give me 1 when i am asking for 1-2
> which would logically be:
> 
>>>> numlist[1:2]
> [1, 2]
> 
> but it's not. it doesnt make since.  Just seems strange when i just
> was in a C++ class and it would do the logical thing.
> 

Actually, this *IS* doing the "logical" thing, but only once you get 
into certain Python mindsets.

In Python, all ranges are "half-open". That means that the lower end 
point IS included, but the upper end point is not. You've encountered 
this pattern before in C++:

      for( int i=0; i<MAX; i++ )

In that code, i will actually be 0, but it will NOT actually be MAX... 
it gets no higher than MAX-1. This is the "standard" way to loop through 
a list of length MAX in C++, and in Python it is the "standard" way to 
do EVERYTHING... loops:

      for x in range(10)   # Goes 0, 1, 2, ... 8, 9

slices:

      mylist[:10]     # Gives [ mylist[0], mylist[1], ... mylist[9] ]

and a few other places which don't occur to me immediately.

So Python has the wonderful advantage of being consistant.

You could now start a whole debate about whether "half-open" is the best 
rule to use... "closed" is the other popular option. I think you'll find 
that "half-open" is a good choice, because it allows things like this:

      first = mylist[:47]
      last  = mylist[47:]

which splits mylist into two parts, and doesn't skip or repeat any 
elements. But what I really want to do is brag about the consistance, 
not re-open the "half-open" vs "closed" debate again.

-- Michael Chermside

PS: Whoah! how early were YOU to be able to grab "john at yahoo.com" ? !





From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 21 05:32:07 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 11:32:07 +0100
Subject: multithreading and Tkinter
References: <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <m3pu1yrz2w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Arcady Genkin <agenkin at thpoon.com> writes:

> How do I signal the GUI thread that new information for a particular
> object has arrived?  Currently I'm using after() method of the Tkinter
> object to update info for *all* objects every second, but that is
> hardly a good design, since there may be 500 of them, and the new info
> can be arriving once every 15 minutes.
> 
> Any ideas and/or pointers to the documentation (preferably online)
> highly appreciated.

There are different ways to do this. For example, you don't need to
redraw everything in your after() method - just produce a global list
of things to redraw, and have your after method analyse this list.

If you want to delete the need for an after() method altogether, you
could register an after_idle callback. You can do that from a
different thread; Tkinter will call the after_idle callback from the
same thread that runs the mainloop.

Notice that Tkinter currently uses "busy waiting" to cope with
multithreading as well, so an additional after() callback won't hurt
too much.

HTH,
Martin


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 22:06:23 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:06:23 GMT
Subject: how to print class names, not references
References: <3C9544B5.47CD0918@pop.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PQcl8.9182$%j5.623743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"a.clarke11" <a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3C9544B5.47CD0918 at pop.ntlworld.com...
> Hi,
> I wrote a function of x, where later in the program x is substituted
by
> class names. In the function, print x is used, but this returns
> <__main__.Player instance at 0x38b1ce90> rather than the plain old
class
> name that  I wanted.
> How can I print the name instead?

grab the string that tells too much: toomuch = str(x).  then pull out
the part you want -- which is perhaps the definition name between the
first '.' and first ' '.

Terry J. Reedy





From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Mar 13 15:29:53 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:29:53 -0800
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <a6o53b$62u$1@panix3.panix.com>; from aahz@pythoncraft.com on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 01:17:15PM -0500
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6nnsg$chc$1@panix1.panix.com> <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1016040504.2814.python-list@python.org> <a6o53b$62u$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020313122953.B15069@ActiveState.com>

[Aahz wrote]
> In article <mailman.1016040504.2814.python-list at python.org>,
> Trent Mick  <trentm at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> >[Michael Hudson wrote]
> >>
> >> Time to look at roundup again?  The tracker on sf is starting to piss
> >> me off (even more).
> >
> >If you *are* going to get motivated to look at a different tracker *please*
> >consider bugzilla. You will find it a much more appropriate than roundup.
> 
> Sure!  Knowing nothing about SF trackers (yesterday was my first
> submitted bug, I think), roundup, or bugzilla, I think I'm in a perfect
> position to evaluate all of them.  Can you explain what makes bugzilla
> superior to roundup?

Bugzilla has a big use community, hence, I would suspect better support. It
is heavily used in a lot of projects. Roundup is not, from what I know.

With bugzilla you can explicitly add yourself and remove yourself from the
Cc lists of bugs. With roundup you get plopped onto a the nosy list of a bug
by responding to traffic on the discussion. That seems like a good idea but
we (Komodo development folks at ActiveState) found that that didn't scale
that well to lots of and long standing bugs when people joined and left the
team.

Roundup's use of the subject line of emails to carry bug attributes did not,
in our experience, scale well.

MarkH does a good defense of bugzilla here:
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/1060597


> What, if anything, does roundup have that bugzilla
> does not?

It is written in Python. :)


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 14:11:25 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:11:25 +0000
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9utit.cju.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:16:49 +0100, Gilles Diribarne <gdiribarne at udcast.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I like Python language and use it every day. But...
>I read some articles from October, 1998 where there was a fight with 
>space and tabs and indent problems.
>Today, we can found code with spaces and tabs in the code.
>
>I've some problem with identing code. I'm allright with the example.
>But, I think it's important to have an "end" building block like "!:"
>
>What do you think about that?
>
>Why I would like to put this in the code?
>1/ Because it's almost impossible to paste python code with ident = n 
>spaces to another code with indent = m spaces
>This kind of examples occurs more and more and you can indent the code 
>by hand when it's 10 lines of codes, but not 1000 code lines.
>It prevents the re-use of code pieces.

This implies 2 things:

(1) you regularly cut and paste 1000-line code fragments

(2) when you do this in other langs, such as C, you don't bother 
reformatting.

I'm glad I don't have to maintain your code!!!

Some editors, such as nedit, allow you to indent/outdent blocks of 
code. I suggest you use such an editor if this is a problem for you.

>2/ Programmers wants independence: some wants to manage building blocks 
>with spaces, other with tabs, some wants length = 4 with tabs.

These people have the option of not using python.

The python standard defines tab == 8 spaces.

>I would like to use my own programming style! But, my code risks to be 
>not supported by others.

There's a python indent utility, that allows code to be re-indented. 
You could extend this, so that everyone gets the code in the format 
they like, and it gets put in CVS in a standard format. 

>4/ Solve the problem of space and tabs length. But, we should keep the 
>indenting mode which produces beautifull syntax.
>pythona.py:
>  def func():
>    a = 1
>    if a == 1:
>      a ==2
>      print "beatifull! Isn't it?"

No idea what you are getting at here.

>You cannot merge correctly or tell me how to do this ?
>This is simply because the language doesn't have a "end" instruction 
>block. It has ":" as beginning instruation block.
>I would like to propose an end instruction block like "!:" or "end"

How about using "#end"? Or "#end def", "#end for", etc.



-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From holger at trillke.net  Sun Mar 24 18:29:36 2002
From: holger at trillke.net (holger at trillke.net)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:29:36 +0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
In-Reply-To: <3C9E53D8.4FA20F3D@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:31:52PM -0500
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017002737.5697.python-list@python.org> <3C9E53D8.4FA20F3D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020325002936.I12768@prim.han.de>

> > > "The network"?  Which one?  The Internet, or an internal
> > > network over which you have full control?  Who controls
> > > the servers on which these agents will be running?
> > 
> > well. at the moment the servers are under my control.
> > but this is hopefully going to change.
> 
> So is your purpose in shutting down threads that you want
> to prevent agents written by others from running forever?
> Or can you count on the good behaviour of those writing 
> agents to run on these servers?

Mainly i want to be able to replace running agents
(for the develop/deploy/test-cycle).

> > In fact it is quite hard to group the agent-threads because they are very
> > autonomous (and btw quite cooperative with other agents).
> 
> "Cooperative"?  As in, working together on problems?  Or
> working on their own individual problems without any 
> interference or perhaps interaction?

ok. speaking plaintext: 

one agent is constructing (updating) and providing 
navigationable Music-Objects (like Song, Group, CD).
another is analyzing samba- and other logfiles 
to see which song was played when/how often/...
the third provides methods for a "virtual
hitparade" like "top ten" and stuff. this one
works on the other agents. actually a fourth
one is also installed (a "quixote"-agent) which provides
a web interface (using the third "scoring" agent).

So basically one Agent-Thread may call into methods of another
agent (not message-oriented, calls into the other modules
in the same thread).

But i want to be able to "correct" the code of e.g. the Music-Objects Agent:
i have to first stop/kill the thread which might be in the process of 
updating stuff. then bring in new code and deploy it. the last
part actually works. killing the agent is the issue which i originally 
wanted to "solve" generically.

The prescribed "ThreadInterruptException" could be generated by the 
python-interpreter working on this thread. Something like 
threading.interrupt(threading.Thread-instance) would signal the 
interpreter to generate an exception on the next possible occasion. Is 
this nonsense or a sensitive approach?

thanks,

	holger



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 19:04:16 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:04:16 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF14C0AED1.B9D6167B-ON88256B6F.0083B54D@i2.com>

[David Eppstein]
> I was starting to think it might be time to write a
> PEP, but then Tim's comment about how he dislikes iterating
> over 3 discouraged me.

[Bjorn Pettersen]
> I would still encourage you to write a PEP, especially if you think
> this should be implemented instead of PEP 276.

I agree as I just remembered another issue that came up concerning the
"for-relational" suggestion.  Namely, that the "for-relational" syntax
doesn't handle step values for intervals.  So even though there would be
new syntax, we would still need to use range/xrange in cases requiring a
step value not equal to 1 or -1.

Jim





From tegskywalker at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 20 04:05:59 2002
From: tegskywalker at hotmail.com (TegSkywalker)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 03:05:59 -0600
Subject: Recommended Books/Resources for Python
Message-ID: <a79jdo$leh$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Hey all. Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question (new and want to learn
Python) but do any of you have any suggested books or readings on how to
learn Phython? I saw an O'Reilly book over at Amazon.com
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565924649) and wasn't 100% sure if
this was a good source or not.

Here is another question. I see that Python is a multisource language
spanning different OSes like Windows, Linux, and Mactintosh like how Java
aims to be. If I were going to program something like an interactive CD and
wanted to give it to people to check out, would they have to have a Python
interpreter installed on their machine or will it run like a normal Windows
.exe file for example?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks for your time! :)





From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 17 19:28:11 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:28:11 +0100
Subject: Problem using pexports & Cygwin to build Python 2.2 extension modules
In-Reply-To: <Pv2l8.131777$V15.22100907@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <Pv2l8.131777$V15.22100907@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20020318002811.GC99651@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Les Button <lbut at stny.rr.com> [2002-03-17 15:21 +0000]:
> Has anyone else had success building an extension module with Windows
> Python 2.2 and Cygwin/gcc?
 
Yes, me. Though I now prefer mingw.

I just used this instead of pexports:
http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/dll.html#DLL-LINK

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 8.1 ?C      Wind: 1.0 m/s



From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Wed Mar 27 17:51:25 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 14:51:25 -0800
Subject: Dealing with python version
References: <slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <m3u1r1y68i.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Andrei Kulakov <ak at silmarill.org> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like if python1.6 or 2.0 are
> already installed and you install a newer version, python command still
> points to the old interpreter.
> 
> I think it would be sensible to use the newest installed python to run
> a program. Is there some elegant way to do that?
> 
> I would ideally prefer it to run using newest interpreter available
> unless it's older than some minimum requirement. It's not very
> user-friendly to put #!/usr/bin/env python2.1 bang line and then say in
> a README that if user gets an error, he has to somehow find out what's
> the latest version he's got and change the bang line to it.
> 
> What's the proper way to deal with all of this?
> 

I'll assume *NIX, and more specifically Linux (because it has python
scripts scattered through the std installation).  Typically, the
preinstalled scripts are expecting a specific version of python, and
expect to find it via: 

    #!/usr/bin/python 
or 
    #!/usr/bin/env python

You don't want to screw up those preinstalled scripts, so don't do
anything to the original installation.  Instead, install new version
elsewhere, e.g.:

  /usr/local/bin/
        python2.0 
        python2.1
  /usr/local/lib/
        python2.0
        python2.1

Each installation will create a generic "python" binary (e.g.,
/usr/local/bin/python) as well as the versioned name.  Delete the
generic one, so it doesn't interfere with the preinstalled python.
That leaves the problem of accessing the new ones.  I use little
scripts:

  /usr/local/bin
        py20
        py21

Where py20 is, e.g.:
  #!/bin/sh
  unset PYTHONHOME PYTHONPATH PYTHONLIB
  /usr/local/bin/python2.0 "$@"

To use:
  py20 myprogram.py

Can also start scripts with:
  #!/usr/local/bin/python2.0


> Thanks,
> 
>  - Andrei
> 
> -- 
> Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
> get it at: cy.silmarill.org

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From calves at coelce.com.br  Mon Mar 11 12:42:51 2002
From: calves at coelce.com.br (Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:42:51 -0300
Subject: RES: lambda question
Message-ID: <29A97D00F387D411AC7900902770E148044AB32D@lcoeexc01.coelce.net>

Thanks,
It solved my problem.

> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Corrado Gioannini [mailto:corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com]
> Enviada em: segunda-feira, 11 de mar?o de 2002 14:30
> Para: Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Assunto: Re: lambda question
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 02:06:51PM -0300, Alves, Carlos 
> Alberto - Coelce wrote:
> > second code:
> > 
> > 	def exe1(f,list):
> > 		return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> > 
> > Can someone explain to me why the first code works while 
> second doesn't.
> try this:
> 
> def exe1(f, list):
>     return map(lambda x, y=f: eval(y), list)
> 
> cheers,
> Corrado
> -- 
> Corrado Gioannini
> <corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com>
> 
> Nekhem Technologies
> Tel.: (+39) 011 4407581
> 
> -
> "Thought is only a flash between two long nights,
>                                          but this flash is 
> everything."
>                                                           (H. 
> Poincar?)
> 
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From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sun Mar 24 17:13:12 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:13:12 GMT
Subject: win32com problem (146 and 2.2)
References: <3c9ce52f.4396882@netnews.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E4F90.6050708@skippinet.com.au>

Joe Smith wrote:
> A coworker gets the following error:
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last): 
>   File "C:\My Stuff\V3\GotoYahoo.py", line 7, in ? 
>     ie.Navigate('http://www.yahoo.com') 
>   File "<COMObject InternetExplorer.Application>", line 2, in Navigate
> 
> pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None,
> None, None, 
>  0, -2147467259), None) 
> 
> 
> The script:
> 
> 
> import win32com.client
> 
> ie = win32com.client.Dispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")
> ie.Visible = 1
> 
> ie.Navigate('http://www.yahoo.com')
> 
> 
> A script similar to this one was working on his machine and all of a
> sudden these sort of error started occuring.  So, he uninstalled
> win32com (146) and python 2.2 and then reinstalled them.  He was still
> having the problem, so I wrote the small script above to reproduce the
> proble.  He says that he has not changed the configuration on his
> machine and I am stumped.

IE has probably just started failing.  Write a WSH version, and I expect 
you will find the exact same thing happening.

Check for dead and invisible IE processes.

Mark.



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Mar  5 03:04:34 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:04:34 -0800
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
In-Reply-To: <8fc4b19e.0203042338.141afe8b@posting.google.com>
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203040130.17140530@posting.google.com> <a611bl$44i$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203042338.141afe8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020305080434.GA8197@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Brian (brian at lodoss.org):
> Do you also feel my original code is better in terms of style or would
> it be even better as the more verbose:
> 
> z = []
> for i in xrange(y):
>     z.append(MyClass())

It might go faster. :) An alternative (though not a good one) might be
to make MyClass's __init__ accept *args and ignore them:

    class MyClass:
        def __init__(self, *args):
            pass

    instant_list = map(MyClass, range(y))

There's not much compelling about this solution, but it does get rid
of the extra function call.

> OK - now I have another question (and remember I'm new to Python) if
> map and lambda are part of the core language and have well defined
> behavior, why is it that using them is considered bad form?  Are they
> just the redheaded step-children of the language, or what? ;-)

An amusing but possibly apt observation. Through occassional glimpses
at conversations, a few attributed quotes, and a bunch of my own
guesswork, I would lay it out sorta like this:

map() and the other functionals were added because it's a convenient
form, a contributed patch, and popular among devotees of functional
languages. With built-in functions, they can still be quite peppy,
and there's no denying the power of expression they offer. But for
most tasks, it's like having a 25 lb sledge and a whole lot of
finishing nails to drive. It can get the job done, but it won't always
be pretty.

That said, a lot of people use them. Even when aware of the tradeoffs,
I use them, definitely a lot more than I should. List comprehensions
has reduced that somewhat.

I think that I have seen notables in the python community (I would
name names, but I don't have quotes to reference) have indicated
regret at the introduction of map() and friends into the language.
They end up being appropriate only very, very rarely.

The lambda construct doesn't suffer from quite the same stigma, though
I think some feel that it's overused, and to bad effect. The
consequence often seems to be code that's a harder to read and
understand rather than the other way around.

I don't think I'm terribly religious either direction on this issue;
in some ways, I'm like the contemporary smoker. I know functional
functions and excessive lambdas are bad for me, but I just can't quit.

I think there are a lot of us sinners in this particular layer of
Hell.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts           "By doing just a little every day, I can gradually 
                           let the task completely overwhelm me." 
<geoff at gerrietts net>        --Ashleigh Brilliant



From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Mar 26 14:24:31 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:24:31 -0800
Subject: stop
In-Reply-To: <sca0d68a.041@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>
Message-ID: <000201c1d4fb$db0aea50$445d4540@Dell2>

Fredrik wrote:
> Ok, so I'm going to be quite honest, I dont write perfect code, so
today
> while working in PythonWin I imported a file. Problem was that the
file
> happened to contain an infinte loop, which the interpreter gladly ran,
> untill I killed the entrire program. Annoying. Is there no %&/!#ing
stop
> button in PythonWin?

When PythonWin is running, there should be a PythonWin icon in the tray
bar. Right click on that and select "Break into running code".

Cheers,
Brian




From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar  3 15:03:52 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:03:52 -0800
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1015178825.27707.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5t3f9.3vsf871.1@kserver.org>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:01:03 -0600, "Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1015178825.27707.python-list at python.org>:

> I dislike Deitel & Deitel because of their casual disregard for
> correctness.  I can't open any of their books without finding an error.
> In C++HTP, they illustrate "Circle" as a subclass of "Point". 

Well, it's true I didn't particularly care for that example.

> Maybe they do this because they think it simplifies the point they're
> making, but I think it's a disservice to the student.  Anyone serious
> about programming in C++ will need to know what derived classes
> signify.

I guess I found the book a useful reference, it was easy (for me) to find
stuff in the index (someone here said their indices weren't good, and that
surprised me), plus there are plentiful code examples. But I've only seen
the one text (the C++HTP) and not the others. I don't care for a formulaic
approach to writing programming books, where the author has a book already
in one language and then adapts it to other languages, but this approach is
quite common in the programming textbook arena, and I wouldn't single out
Deitel and Deitel on that point alone. The paper is thin and the binding
does suck, but the binding just came off of my Programming Python 2nd
edition this past month, and often that type of stuff is the publisher's
perogative and not the author's.

Anyhow, now I start to sound like I'm defending D&D, which I'm certainly
not. I was only expressing surprise at the general dislike for their book
that so many have posted in this thread, as it is counter to the opinions
I've encountered on their book in the past. In fact, I know some teachers
who think that their book is practically the C++ gospel or something. I
never had that high an opinion of their book. As I related, I didn't choose
it for the text when I taught C++. I considered several other books, and
ended up with the one by Walter Savitch. And while the narrative was very
good in Savtich's book, there not enough good exercises and programming
assignments for my high school students, and I was always having to search
other books for that type of stuff and often ended up using exercises out
of the Deitel's book. The exercises in C++HTP are very good for instructors
to assign to students and not many books have that type of stuff. 

I'm currently teaching math at the University level, and it seems that I
have LOTS more time to prepare for class than I did at the high school
level, and I don't assign near as much work (I see the students far less
and they are supposed to be more responsible to take some initiative for
the learning on their own). So whether a book with so many exercises is
really necessary for college...still, when I was a student using that text,
I appreciated the availability of those exercises. Even if the instructor
didn't assign them I could do them on my own to my benefit. But for a high
school instructor, a book with a LOT of fairly good exercises has a lot of
appeal over a book with few. The students often don't read the book anyway,
and you can correct the information in the book in class if need be. 

I wonder that the many exercises and code examples are not a large part of
the appeal of this text over some others.

-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/

"When introducing your puppy to an adult cat,
restrain the puppy, not the cat." -- Gwen Bailey,
_The Perfect Puppy: How to Raise a Well-behaved Dog_




From pobrien at orbtech.com  Sat Mar 16 17:41:41 2002
From: pobrien at orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:41:41 GMT
Subject: Which class method will be used when calling it?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203151707020.11324-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <3C9290A7.AA3931CB@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <FSPk8.25005$Vx1.2135236@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C9290A7.AA3931CB at ccvcorp.com...
>
> Now it becomes a bit more difficult to figure out which version of f() is
> called.  In Python 2.1 and earlier, the base classes are searched
> depth-first, so that the call would resolve to B.f(), but if class D were
> declared as D(C, B) [note reverse order of ancestors], then d.f() would
> resolve to A.f() (since C has no f(), but C's parent A does).  Python 2.2
> changed this, so that (in essence) a breadth-first search is done; under
> 2.2, d.f() should resolve to B.f() regardless of the order that the
parents
> were listed when D was declared.
>
> (At least, I *think* I'm remembering this correctly.... ;) )
>

Classic classes resolve this as they always have, even under Python 2.2.
Only new style classes follow the new mechanism.

Details: http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#mro

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech






From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Wed Mar 27 10:54:01 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:54:01 +0100
Subject: location of gmpy, google
Message-ID: <sca1f931.099@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

>>> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> 03/27/02 16:42 PM >>>

FREDRIK> Where can I get gmpy?

>>Try searching for "gmpy" on google.

I happened to find it while looking around some python pages, however,
Im unable to get it to work. Anyone willing to give me some instructions
on how getting something like gmpy in PythonWin is done?
All help is appreciated.
/Fredrik



From arun at sharma-home.net  Mon Mar 11 01:14:04 2002
From: arun at sharma-home.net (Arun Sharma)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:14:04 -0800
Subject: Iterating over unicode strings
In-Reply-To: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEEIPDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
References: <3C8C3136.9050507@sharma-home.net> <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEEIPDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
Message-ID: <20020311061403.GA22580@sharma-home.net>

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 10:48:44PM -0600, Jason Orendorff wrote:
>    1.  Your unicode string might be wrong.
> 
>        Python doesn't know the encoding of your program,
>        unfortunately, so it assumes ASCII.  Anything that's
>        not ASCII causes an error.  To fix this, specify the
>        encoding:
> 
>        line = unicode("??????|| ?????????????????? ???????????????", 'utf-8')
> 
>    2.  print won't work.  :(
> 
>        Python doesn't know the encoding of your terminal,
>        unfortunately, so it assumes ASCII.  Any output that's
>        not ASCII causes an error.  To fix this, specify the
>        encoding:
> 
>        print c.encode('utf-8')
> 
> Hope this helps.

Thanks, that solved the problem.

	-Arun



From p.magwene at snet.net  Sat Mar  9 17:05:42 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul M)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:05:42 GMT
Subject: disipyl - a 2D and 3D Python plotting library
Message-ID: <mailman.1015712882.16252.clpa-moderators@python.org>

DESCRIPTION:
-----------
    disipyl is an object-oriented wrapper around the DISLIN plotting
library.  DISLIN is a powerful and flexible multiplatform (Win32,
Unix, Linux, etc.) library designed for displaying scientific data.
DISLIN's author, Helmut Michels, has made available a DISLIN plotting
extension for the Python programming language (see
http://www.linmpi.mpg.de/dislin/ for more details).

    disipyl provides a set of classes which represent various aspects
of DISLIN plots, as well as providing some easy to use classes for
creating commonly used plot formats (e.g. scatter plots, histograms,
3-D surface plots).  A major goal in designing the library was to
facilitate interactive data exploration and plot creation.

    Documentation, a tutorial, and a demo program are included.  The library
has
been tested on Win32, Linux, and FreeBSD, but I anticipate that it should
work
on any platform which can make use of Python, NumPy, and the DISLIN
python extensions.

    Feedback, comments, and critique are gladly accepted (email:
paul.magwene at yale.edu).


VERSION:
-------
    This is release 0.5 of disipyl.

HISTORY:
-------
    disipyl is a complete re-write of an earlier plotting library called
pxDislin.  While similar in spirit, disipyl is much more flexible and much
more easier to use than pxDislin.

URL:
----
    You can find disipyl at:
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~pmm34/disipyl.html



From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 17:21:33 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:21:33 GMT
Subject: sunstring
References: <0r4l8.22204$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3C94DCC1.748EDC18@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <NF8l8.27530$Vx1.2360493@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

No, sir!  I am very very new to python.  I just bought the O'Reilly book
today.

Billy

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C94DCC1.748EDC18 at engcorp.com...
> Billy Ng wrote:
> >
> > Would anybody tell me how to do substring in python?
>
> Use slices.  And look at the string module.
>
> Have you gone through the tutorials yet?
>
> -Peter




From joonas at olen.to  Thu Mar  7 02:14:32 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:14:32 +0200
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk> <3C84E363.6020106@olen.to> <3C84EBED.8090607@bath.ac.uk> <3C8651E9.493CDA64@olen.to> <a65lvs$103o$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3C871358.306F01A4@olen.to>

Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> Quoth Joonas Paalasmaa <joonas at olen.to>:
> | Simon Willison wrote:
> |> Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> |>> Simon Willison wrote:
> |>>| I've written a simple Python script to scan a bunch of URLs for "live"
> |>>| sites and grab the title of those pages. It works by using popen() to
> |>>| call lynx and analyse the HTTP response:
> |>>|
> |>>| -----------------------------------------------------------------
> |>>|
> |>>| command = "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Use:
> |>>
> |>> command=["/opt/bin/lynx","-mime_header","http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"]
> |>>
> |>> for better security.
> |>
> |> I'm a Python newbie :) How does that makes things more secure?
> |
> | If you pass a string to os.popen as the first argument, the process is
> | envoiked
> | by by running the argument in shell. That can cause problems if the
> | string is composed from non-safe variables. Imagine situation where
> | variable 'user' is "; rm -fR ~/; echo ". That causes command
> | "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~; rm -fR ~/; echo /"
> | to be run in shell.
> | But if a list is passed to os.popen, os.popen will run a program named
> | in the first item of
> | the list with the rest of the list as arguments.
> 
> TypeError: popen() argument 1 must be string, not list
> 
> You meant os.popen2(), not os.popen().

Yes. I forgot that only os.popen2 accepts list as the first argument.

- Joonas


From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Sat Mar 16 18:49:02 2002
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:49:02 -0500
Subject: Operator overload question
Message-ID: <000001c1cdff$76345420$9e47f6d1@ArtsPortable>

Given:

class Complex(complex):
    def __mul__(self,other):
       other=Complex(other)
       t = complex.__mul__(self,other)
       return Complex(t.real,t.imag)
    __rmul__ = __mul__

    def __add__(self,other):
       other=Complex(other)
       return
Complex(self.real.__add__(other.real),self.imag.__add__(other.imag))
    __radd__ = __add__

Then:

print type(Complex(5,4) * 7)
>><class '__main__.Complex'>
print type(7 * Complex(5,4))
>><class '__main__.Complex'>
print type(Complex(5,4) + 7)
>><class '__main__.Complex'>

But:

print type(7 + Complex(5,4))
>><type 'complex'>

Multiple choice:
  That the result at But is a surprise to me because I am missing:
      1)Something obvious about __radd__ or general classic syntax
      2)Something related to new style classes
      3)Other

Art





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 24 17:06:53 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 23:06:53 +0100
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <m38z8hk4ci.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:

> > So open is now a file? That seems a bit odd to me.
> 
> Correction: open is the type of file.

Correction: open is file. Just try it

>>> open is file
1

So open is the type of file objects. The type of file is something
different:

>>> type(file)
<type 'type'>

Regards,
Martin


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar 16 15:59:26 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:59:26 GMT
Subject: Help with a Python ASP C extension module ...
References: <40ee0487.0203152316.70c12a49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OmOk8.9025$e33.8380@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

I've had to build some COM components that do this.  There are two ways to
do it.  The easy way and the right way.  (sorry examples are in VB, they've
got these darn "corporate standards")

The easy way create a function that let's you pass in the response object
and capture it.  Then on the script side:

<%
Dim foo
Set foo = Server.CreateObject("foo.bar")
Set foo.response = Response

foo.otherMethod("ttt") ' can access foo's internal copy of response.
%>

The right way is to grab a reference to the Response Object via MTS.  It's
not really that hard, there are just a few more steps involved.  Here's the
code I reference for that:

http://www.microsoft.com/mind/0999/vbcom/vbcomtextfigs.htm#fig14

Of course VB is nice enough to provide wierd wrapper objects to prevent you
from understanding what's really going on ;)  Hopefully it's a
straightforward translation to Component instantiation.

<rant>
If you haven't dealt with COM components in C before, get ready for a rude
awakening.  That's what finally turned me off to C++.  You have to jump
through hoop after hoop after hoop just to deliver on C++'s promise of
"reusable objects"
</rant>
--
-

"Eric Vasilik" <eric at vasilik.com> wrote in message
news:40ee0487.0203152316.70c12a49 at posting.google.com...
> I am writing a C extension to Python.  The reason I am writing an
> extension is that I believe that the implementation of
> Response.BinaryWrite() in the Window's ASP extension (I am using
> Active State's Python 2.1) is not releasing the global interpreter
> lock.  I am getting very poor performace using it and I believe that
> my server is not taking advantage of writing out multiple streams
> because of the global lock.
>
> Instead of writing out a response with:
>
>     Response.BinaryWrite( buffer( open( fileName, 'rb' ).read() ) )
>
> I am now doing the following:
>
>     PythonExt.binaryWriteFile( Response, fileName )
>
> The difference between these two is that the first calls the default
> implementation of Response.BinaryWrite and the second calls an
> extension I have written which reads the file and writes it out to
> response, all while the interpreter lock is released.
>
> My problem, is I cannot find any documentation on how to get a hold of
> the IResponse object from the Python Response object.  I need to get
> it so that I may call BinaryWrite on without going back into the
> Python interpreter.
>
> I thought I would be able to find the source for the Response object
> with the source from Active State, or the source from Mark Hammond's
> win32All, but I found no references there.  Any help would be
> appreciated.




From Oschler at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 10:05:58 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:05:58 -0500
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015314249.8983.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <625h8.3294$tg2.206482@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Gerhard,

Excellent!!!  Never expected to find a language that could do this and it
something I've wanted very badly for a long time.  Yes that's exactly what I
meant.  B knows about the A that owns it without having to artificially pass
a reference of A to B during construction.

Thanks again.


Gerhard H?ring <gh_pythonlist at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015314249.8983.python-list at python.org...
> Le 05/03/02 ? 08:26, Gerhard H?ring ?crivit:
> > Le 05/03/02 ? 01:41, Robert Oschler ?crivit:
> > > I've never seen this feature in any programming language I've worked
in but
> > > it can't hurt to ask.  Can an aggregated class object get a reference
to the
> > > class object that aggregates it?  So if ClassAggregator contained an
> > > instance of ClassAggregatee is there a Python syntax/construct that a
> > > function in ClassAggregatee could use to get a reference to the
instance of
> > > ClassAggregator that contained it?
> >
> > [unfinished code]
>
> If I understood you correctly, this might do the trick:
>
> import sys
>
> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.b = B()
>
> class B:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self']
>
> a = A()
>
> It even works with Jython, so it's reasonably portable.
>
> Gerhard
> --
> This sig powered by Python!
> Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 1.8 ?C      Wind: 1.6 m/s
>





From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Sun Mar 10 12:18:19 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:18:19 -0500
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com> <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au> <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <B8B0FF8B.4D67%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 3/10/02 9:00 AM, in article
b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02 at posting.google.com, "Sandy Norton"
<sandskyfly at hotmail.com> wrote:

> A case in point is ye olde quicksort:
> <nice use of list comprehensions>
> Now if that ain't purrty I don't know what is...

But this may be a somewhat biased example since Python comprehensions were
partly inspired by Haskell's...

Dinosaurs-remind-one-of-birds-ly yours

-- F



From michael.neuroth at freenet.de  Thu Mar  7 19:26:20 2002
From: michael.neuroth at freenet.de (Michael Neuroth)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:26:20 +0100
Subject: undefined symbols when linking Python into a shared library
References: <3C8540B5.E133D407@freenet.de> <3c863019.155813297@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <3C88052C.591A9CC5@freenet.de>

Mats Wichmann writes:

> :  Traceback (most recent call last):
> :
> :    File "<string>", lind 2, in ?
> :
> :    File "/usr/lib/python2.1/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
> :
> :      import _tkiter # If this fails your Python my not be configured for Tk
> :
> :  ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_tkiter.so: undefined symbol: _Py_NoneStruct
>
> If this is a direct snip, and not a transcription, the problem is sa
> typo: _tkiter is used instead of _tkinter

Sorry, I misstyped the error message, it should be _tkinter.

> :  How can I verify, that this symbols are in the shared library?
>
> Use objdump on the shared library

this works as well as "nm -D" and objdump shows that the symbol is exported:

000a7bac g    DO .data  00000008  Base       _Py_NoneStruct

Thank you.

  Michael.



From francis.meyvis at sonycom.com  Tue Mar  5 05:59:37 2002
From: francis.meyvis at sonycom.com (Francis Meyvis)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:59:37 GMT
Subject: I've got the unicode blues
References: <3c846d80.95456984@news.isar.de> <j4eliz73vp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ty1h8.15$zU6.599@nreader2.kpnqwest.net>

> lines = ReadLinesFromAnything("test.reg")
> file = open("test.out","wb")
> file.write(codecs.BOM_LE)
> for line in lines:
>     file.write(line.encode("utf-16le"))
> file.close()
>
> The LE/BE codecs don't write a BOM, so they operate nicely using
> sequential write. In fact, this is what the UTF-16 codec does: it
> first writes the BOM, then writes the data in the chosen endianness.
>
> > - *much* better support for UNICODE Textfiles in python
> > - a *much* better documentation on this in python.
> >
> > So now I already feel much better :)

These will generate a single starting BOM
in the 2byte unicode file

f = codecs.open("test.out", "w", "utf-16")
for l in lines:
    f.write(l)
f.close()


---
Kind regards, best wishes,
francis meyvis





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 28 13:07:54 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:07:54 -0500
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <a7tbd4$qc7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <ua6mlnqa9ugv1e@news.supernews.com>

"jimh" <jim at jim.jim> wrote in message
news:a7tbd4$qc7$1 at web1.cup.hp.com...
> I am working on python code that consist of quite a few files (about
50;
> each file contains one class).  All errors returned by functions are
numeric
> and are defined in the individual files.  There is a MessageCatalog.py
class
> which will map these numbers into strings.  This MessageCatalog.py has
to
> import all of the 50 other files to have access to their error
numbers.  So
> far, so good - no problems yet.
>
> Here is the problem: Most of these 50 classes need to use the
MessageCatalog
> themselves.  This means, of course, that classA imports MessageCatalog
which
> imports classA.  This doesn't work very well.
>
> Does anyone have ideas on how to deal with this situation?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim

I had that (almost) exact same problem, but with commands
commands instead of messages, and I didn't want to couple
the command modules with a central dictionary. In fact, I
wanted the entire thing to be highly modular: load the commands
you wanted, and just those commands.

What I wound up doing is putting the part of the command
dictionary in needed by a module in that module, and putting
a small routine at the end to copy it into the main driver/parser
module. This worked well. The loop still exists at run time,
but it doesn't exist at load time, so there isn't any module.

It might be slightly cleaner to register the commands in a
special purpose module that doesn't have any other function.
Then it's down at the bottom of the tree, and can't cause
any load time loops. Oh, well. Add it to the refactoring list...

John Roth
>
>




From kosh at aesaeion.com  Mon Mar 11 03:59:54 2002
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh at aesaeion.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:59:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: How do you protect the source code of python applications?
In-Reply-To: <3C8C6EC5.8080308@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.32.0203110158040.498-100000@aesaeion.com>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, husam wrote:

> hi,
> Is there a way to protect the source code of applications written with
> python?

Overall I would do it with a license. You can do lots of things that will
take a lot of time to do and will hide it from many people but none of
those methods will ever be perfect. No matter how much you obfuscate the
code it can be decoded regardless of the language being used. Overall if
you want to really keep your code safe then you can't give your code out.
So you would want to make an app server and just give the customer a
client to connect to the app server and that way noone could ever get the
code for the app.

Designing and building web applications http://webme-eng.com




From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 15:23:44 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:23:44 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com>

"Dean Goodmanson" <ponderor at lycos.com> wrote:

>"The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
>classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code -- not
>in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death."  Guido van Rossum
>

I didn't see the original post but I *really* hope this was said in
jest.

Or is Guido getting writing software and writing novels confused?
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From henrik.motakef at web.de  Sun Mar  3 07:28:20 2002
From: henrik.motakef at web.de (Henrik Motakef)
Date: 03 Mar 2002 13:28:20 +0100
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
References: <Tjig8.5306$H17.1119368328@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <86d6ylrg2j.fsf@apo.hmotakef.int>

"Paul M" <p.magwene at snet.net> writes:

> Is it possible to create a regular expression for searching for the
> outermost matching braces in a string in which there may be nested braces?

Not really. However, there is a Python wrapper for sgrep (structured
grep) that could be useful.

Sorry, I don't have a link. Try Google or Freshmeat.

hth
Henrik


From kragen at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 02:18:24 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 02:18:24 -0500
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <83hendkou7.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) writes:
> o Developments like psyco should be encouraged and supported because
>   ultimately accelerating python is a good thing: it takes away one 
>   usual criticism of those who have _never tried_ to develop in 
>   python. For those who have, the productivity benefits, of course,
>   by far outweigh any so-called 'performance' issues.

This is unjustifiably glib.  Lots of programs don't need to run fast.
Some programs do need to run fast.  Some programs justify significant
work to get them to run fast.  Accelerating Python is a good thing not
because of "so-called 'performance issues", but because in some cases,
there really *are* performance issues that rule Python out.



From tl_news at nexgo.de  Thu Mar 14 07:54:22 2002
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:54:22 +0100
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
Message-ID: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net>

Hi!

Some days ago I posted two questions here in one message. The first was 
answered, the other not - maybe because the "Subject" line of the Message 
was related to the first question....

Here's my other question again - with an appropiate "Subject" line in the 
Header.

I'm playing with the new 2.2-feature of subclassing builtin types.
Especially I built an "MaxSizedList" that is a list, but it cannot grow 
over a maximum size. It throws the first elements away if new elements are 
appended.

Now I wanted to transfer the MaxSizedList on request via XML-RPC. But 
xmlrpclib only knows about "real" lists, not subclassed lists. And there 
seems to be no interface to add dump()-Methods for other data types, or?

So the best solution is to transport an object like
return list(newlist)

But I guess this makes a temporary copy of my MaxSizedList just for the 
XML-RPC-transport, or? So it's horrible inefficient? 

Is there no other way to deal with subclassed types in this lib besides 
patching the xmlrpclib to know my MaxSizedList? Is there a kind of casting 
to a "normal" list possible without making a completely new list from the 
MaxSizedList-Content?

Thanks a lot for your help!

Tino


From mnations at airmail.net  Mon Mar 18 18:38:39 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 15:38:39 -0800
Subject: Checkboxes and Tortured Logic
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203181538.5cde340e@posting.google.com>

I know there's got to be a better way to do this than the way that I
found. But the only way I've been able to succesfully retrieve a value
from a checkbox (using the scant documentation I've been able to find)
looks something like this:

self.modVar = StringVar()

		self.testModules = [
			('EQPT Provisioning Test Cases', 0, 0, NORMAL),
			('OCN Provisioning Test Case', 1, 0, NORMAL),
			('STS Provisioning Test Case', 2, 0, NORMAL)]
		
		for module, row, col, status in self.testModules:
				setattr( self.modVar, module, StringVar() )
				self.modButton = Checkbutton(modFrame, text=module, state=status,
anchor=W,
					variable = getattr( self.modVar, module)).grid(row=row, col=col,
sticky=W)

...
def ocnRun(self):
        #while self.ok:
	    for module, row, col, status in self.gui.testModules:
		    print "The module is=", module
		    a = getattr(self.gui.modVar, module)
		    print "The value is=", a
		    #print "The variable is=", self.modButton.variable
		    #print "The value is=", self.gui.modVar.get()
		    print "The value is=", a.get()
	    self.gui.slot = self.gui.list.curselection()
            #printAll( self.gui.ipaddr.get(), self.gui.var.get(),
self.gui.list.get(self.gui.slot) )
...

ocnRun is called from the main Gui GO button which starts up a
separate thread. The first snippet is in one class and the second
snippet is in another. But the only way I've been able to see any
value is to assign the getattr() result (which is an object of type
IntVar) to a variable and then use that variable with the get()
function. It doesn't work when I combine the two functions into the
same line which is confusing.

Also, I haven't found a way to get an "OFF" value. The only values
that are returned are the "ON" values. Default ON is the value one,
and I can get that value, plus manipulate it using the "onvalue"
option. Default for OFF is '0', but that does not come through. Plus,
I can't manipulate the default value using the "offvalue" option.

Basically I just need to pass the on and off values through to the
other class and have access to the result. Is there an easier way to
do this.

Thanks,
Marc


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Mar 25 04:58:15 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 09:58:15 GMT
Subject: The OOM-Killer vs. Python
References: <3c9e2b5f.9993062@news.t-online.de> <Xns91DBED451517cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <a7msbn$110t$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <Xns91DBED451517cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82>, Chris Liechti wrote:

> gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) wrote in news:3c9e2b5f.9993062
> @news.t-online.de:
>> I have a python-based SMTP server (see http://p-nand-
>> q.com/shicks.htm)
>> running on our server, and in general it has worked flawless (since
>> about nov 2001). However, in the recent week that dreaded linux OOM
>> killer twice killed the python process. [The machine has 768mb ram 
>> call me oldfashioned but that SHOULD be enough for both Linux & 
>> Python to get along, really. OK, its running KDE, and has only 256mb 
>> for swap, but still...]

> maybe you have some other leaking app and the OOM killer just picks 
> the largest. if you want a reliable server i wouldn't use it as 
> workstation too :-)

>> Anyway, even though I believe that this is more of a fault of the
>> Linux Kernel VM quality than the script (the system has been 
>> running fine for months and now two kills in one week - that smells 
>> fishy 

 About two years ago (March of 2000) there was a huge flamewar
 on the Linux kernel mailing list (LKML) about a proposed set of
 patches to allow users (admins) to disable "overcommit."

 When your program uses malloc (implicitly done by your Python
 processes, of course) then the Linux kernel will return success
 even if there isn't physically enough memory+swap to guarantee
 that the whole block of memory can be supplied.  This is called
 "overcommit" (and is common among UNIX and other general purpose
 operating systems).  

 Searching Google's Linux pages on "overcommit" or "disable overcommit"
 or even "disable overcommit" and "patch" will quickly bring up various
 subsets of that discussion.

 Unfortunately I don't know the current status of Linux sysctl to control
 the "overcommit" vm features. I'm cross posting this to c.o.l.d.s
 (comp.os.linux.dev.system) in hopes of getting a clue.
 I see a /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory entry on my  2.4.9 kernel which
 might be either to a magic sysctl node.  You might be able to 
 echo -1 > into that node (virtual file) to disable overcommit.  That
 should cause malloc()'s to fail when there isn't enough RAM+swap to
 satisfy a request.  

 Note that this might not actually solve your problem.  It should
 prevent the OOM killer from becoming active (since you won't truly
 be "out-of-memory") but might cause programs to abend (abnormally
 terminate themselves) when their malloc's return -ENOMEM.  If you have
 swap active it also might make the system go into vm thrashing and it
 might make the whole system seem much worse because many of the 
 (formerly innocuous) malloc()s will be going unsatisfied.

 Personally I think the various libraries, compilers and applications
 which are blindly allocating far more memory then they actually use are
 really the heart of the whole overcommit problem.  That might not be 
 Python (or it might be indirectly due to Python's use of some libraries 
 on your system, possibly it could be glibc and libm bloating).
 Unfortunately memory is a shared resource, so it only takes one bad
 appl. (so to speak) to ruin the whole basket for all of us.



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 29 20:03:46 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 01:03:46 GMT
Subject: Slice objects. How to apply them to strings?
References: <upl4auo0ll9o99skacavmaf9cnnbh2qae4@4ax.com> <04g9au4kn4dtg92584l12n0ut001c7rb9m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a832ti$ujq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:29:25 +0000, Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:

>Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I'm using Python 2.1 here but this still seems to apply on 2.2
>>
>>I have a little string-based class which needs to emulate strings for
>>most things. This includes slicing.
>>
>>So I need a __getitem__ magic method. 
>>
>>This will get passed a slice object.
>>
>>How am I supposed to translate this into a string slice? 
>>
>>This seems to be the tidiest I can come up with and it's a mess:
>>
>>def __getitem__(self, item):
>>    if item.step:
>>        return self.s[item.start: item.stop: item.step]
>>    if item.start:
>>        return self.s[item.start: item.stop]
>>    return self.s[item.stop]
>>
>>If 'item' is a slice object, shouldn't I just be able to say:
>>
>>    self.s[item]
>>?
>>
>>Wouldn't this be really sensible?
>>
>>What's worse, is that I can't even do this:
>>
>>import operator
>>operator.getitem(self.s, item)
>>
>>Somebody please tell me I'm being dim and I've missed something. How
>>do you apply a slice object to a sequence?
>>
>>Thanks
>
>Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
>

Why not subclass str? Here is a toy:

 >>> class SX(str):
 ...     def __getitem__(self,item):
 ...         if type(item) is int: return 'SX<'+str.__getitem__(self,item)+'>'
 ...         return 'SX<:<'+''.join(
 ...             [str(self)[i] for i in xrange(item.start,item.stop,item.step)]
 ...         )+'>:>'
 ...     def __getslice__(self,i,j):
 ...         return 'SX<<'+str.__getslice__(self,i,j)+'>>'
 ...
 >>> s=SX('0123456789')
 >>> s
 '0123456789'
 >>> s[1]
 'SX<1>'
 >>> s[1:8]
 'SX<<1234567>>'
 >>> s[1:8:2]
 'SX<:<1357>:>'


However, to be robust, I guess one must watch for slices and tuples
in __getitem__ to cover all the variety, and perhaps expect just
straight start,stop in __getslice__ ? (Can someone verify the latter?)

 >>> class C:
 ...     def __init__(self,*v): print 'init',v
 ...     def __getitem__(self,*i): print 'getitem',i
 ...     def __getslice__(self,*slc): print 'getslice',slc
 ...
 >>> c=C('012345')
 init ('012345',)
 >>> c[1]
 getitem (1,)
 >>> c[1,2]
 getitem ((1, 2),)
 >>> c[1:2]
 getslice (1, 2)
 >>> c[1,2,3]
 getitem ((1, 2, 3),)
 >>> c[1:2:3]
 getitem (slice(1, 2, 3),)
 >>> c[1:2,3:4]
 getitem ((slice(1, 2, None), slice(3, 4, None)),)
 >>> c[1:]
 getslice (1, 2147483647)
 >>> c[:2]
 getslice (0, 2)
 >>> c[:2,3]
 getitem ((slice(None, 2, None), 3),)
 >>> c[:2,3:]
 getitem ((slice(None, 2, None), slice(3, None, None)),)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dreed at capital.edu  Wed Mar 13 07:54:36 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:54:36 -0500
Subject: MySQL Library or Interface?
In-Reply-To: <dIHj8.24208$nw3.3259904@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>
	(stephen@stephencox.org)
References: <dIHj8.24208$nw3.3259904@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>
Message-ID: <200203131254.g2DCsaP26752@localhost.localdomain>

> From: "Stephen Cox" <stephen at stephencox.org>
>
> Is there a MySQL library or some kind of framewrok available for Python?

http://www.python.org/topics/database/modules.html

Dave



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar  6 20:07:59 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:07:59 -0500
Subject: Threading help?
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
		<3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>
		<20020306132612.4a5d756a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net> <mailman.1015453332.10152.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86BD6F.9D258DA7@engcorp.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:26:12 -0800
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> > The approach I would take, based upon the information given, is to have
> > thread A retrieve the data every .1s (using time.sleep),  when the data
> is
> > retrieved, put it on a Queue and go back to sleep.  Thread B blocks on
> the
> > Queue until data is available.  When data becomes available, B processes
> > that data and place it on a second Queue for thread C (thread C handling
> > HTTP requests) to deal with.
> 
> Hm.  Okay, I had to reconsider this.  Clearly if the processing is slower
> than .1s and data is being added to it every .1s, the Queue is going to
> endlessly grow as more data is added to it.  If this is the case, it might
> make sense to have more than one consumer thread (B) doing the processing.

I might be missing something, but I don't see how adding another thread
(with a slight extra overhead associated with it) would actually increase
performance for what I infer is CPU-bound processing in thread B.  
Threads don't add performance capacity, they remove it!  (Or is B blocking
on something like a socket, thus slowing it down?)

-Peter


From thomas at weholt.org  Sun Mar 17 18:42:52 2002
From: thomas at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:42:52 GMT
Subject: Format profile-data into "nice" HTML ?
Message-ID: <0S9l8.11822$TU3.312633@news4.ulv.nextra.no>

I need to show the results of code-profiling in a web-page. Parsing the data
in pstats-objects seem complicated and I was wondering if anybody has ever
done this before. If not, can anybody tell me the easiest way to do this?
The pstats-module was  .... well, not that easy to understand.

I was hoping to be able to put the results into a nicely formatted table,
but a plain print like the one it produces now will also do the trick. I
just don't seem to be able to capture the output of the print_stats-method.

Any help appreciated.

Best regards,
Thomas Weholt






From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 17 15:06:29 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 20:06:29 GMT
Subject: a text processing problem: are regexpressions necessary?
References: <b03e80d.0203170529.6ac58327@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a72t05$9bg$0@216.39.172.122>

On 17 Mar 2002 05:29:18 -0800, sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I thought I'd share this problem which has just confronted me.
>
>The problem
>
>An automatic way to tranform urls to articles on various news sites to
>their printerfriendly counterparts is complicated by the fact that
>different sites have different schemes for doing this. (see examples
>below)
> 
>Now given two examples for each site: a regular link to an article and
>its printer-friendly counterpart, is there a way to automatically
>generate transformation code that is specific to each site, but which
>generalizes across all article urls within that site?
> 
>Here are a few examples from several online publications:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm
>    
>http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1043688
>http://www.economist.com/agenda/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=1043688
>    
>http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuru031502.shtml
>http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuruprint031502.html
>    
>http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said
>http://www.thenation.com/docPrint.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said
>
>I'm kinda heading in the direction of attempting to generate regular
>expressions for each site... But I'm a bit apprehensive about doing
>this. Is there a more pythonic way to approach this problem?
>
>Any advice would be appreciated.
>
My approach would be to write a function that accepts an example
pair of urls as above and returns a functor that will transform
the display version to the print version. A functor is a callable
instance of a class, and a class instance can contain data as well
as the method (__call__) that gets called when you use the instance
as a function. Thus you can store rules, regexes or whatever necessary
to do the job in the class instance, once your function has those
generated. E.g., your function could pass the rules it determined to the
class constructor and then return the instance. Of course you design
your functor class to support what you need for the above.

You might want to put the functors in a dictionary according to site
domain (key modified if need be to distinguish different rules generated
for different parts of the same site). E.g., if you have disp_url and print_url,
with one rule per site, you could store it something like

    site_dom = disp_url.split('/')[2] # assuming "http://site_dom/..."
    funcdict[site_dom] = get_url_rewrite_functor(disp_url, print_url)

and then later use the stored rules to convert some new display url by

    site_dom = new_disp_url.split('/')[2]
    new_print_url = funcdict[site_dom](new_disp_url)

Now it's just a matter of writing get_url_rewrite_functor ;-)

To analyze the differences between urls, I think I would start by
splitting them with re.compile(r'([/?])') and then deal with
the differing pieces one by one. I might split those further
by numbers and periods (re.compile(r'([\d.]+)') and/or scan them
for matching prefix and suffix sequences. It will probably be easier
to store rules as a list of (fcn,args..) tuples to operate on selected
items of the first level split than generating a single glorious regex
substitution, but OTOH it might not be that bad. You'll also
have to decide whether to treat url elements that match in examples
as constants to verify or variables to pass through. Some are more
obvious than others. For a start you can probably pass everything
through that you don't generate a change rule for, but it's good to
flag violations of your assumptions.

Your best final approach may depend on what your performance requirements
are, but you're probably better of optimizing later, after you get some
play time with the algorithms.

BTW, give your functor class a __str__ method to return a printable
representation of its rules in some form, to help debugging.

Anyway, that's how I'd start out. YMMV.
HTH,

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Fri Mar 15 12:51:48 2002
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:51:48 -0500
Subject: random appreciation
Message-ID: <E16lvse-0002Bg-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

I had wrttien:

>And yes, it *is* nice not to have to worry about where
>self.imag/self.real might leave me.

Except of course for the fact the formula is dead wrong, and oh yeah
divide by zero, and....

details, details...

Meanwhile studying Guido's Type/class unification paper at 
www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

I'll get there.

Art



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 17:52:30 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:52:30 -0800
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
References: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list@python.org> <a71o2b.3vsbk85.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016402254.12742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a72ajf.3vs6o4v.1@kserver.org>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:55:26 +0300, Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016402254.12742.python-list at python.org>:

> On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 09:36:10AM -0800, Sheila King wrote:
> > (1) stability. Can I expect this latest code to be stable? Somehow I would
> > think that would be questionable with late releases?
> 
>    No, you have to learn development history (CVS is *developer's* tool!)
> and checkout latest stable release.

Arggh! I sorta wanna do developer-type things, but I'm not sure I want to
be a *real* developer. Well, I'll let the idea warm up over time...

>    I heard that Brry is going to release an archive of a stable version...
> don't know *when*. I suspect the usual time - Real Soon :)

LOL.

> 
> > (2) distribution. If I want to distribute code that I'm developing, and I
> > use the latest CVS releases to develop my code, such that my code relies on
> > these CVS releases, how do I distribute code to others who are running the
> > standard 2.2 install?
> 
>    The simplest (though not the best) solution would be to distribute a
> copy of the email package with your code. You know, Python inserts the path
> to your application in the beginning of sys.path, so upon "import email"
> your copy of the package will be imported, and not standard package.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Out of curiousity...what is the *best* (or better) method???

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 23 15:59:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 20:59:03 GMT
Subject: how do i get RGB from HEX?
References: <a7flgu$cpg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <WCeE3TAUC2m8Ewar@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a7iqan$s7o$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:49:24 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <a7flgu$cpg$1 at newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, G. Willoughby
><sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com> writes
>>Hi,
>>    i have been trying to do this for to long now, i know there is an easy
>>way, please somebody put me out of my misery! i need to get the RGB value of
>>a HEX number (eg, #DCDCDC). can anyone help?
>>
>>thanks,
>>
>>G. Willoughby
>>
>>
>split into pairs after stripping the #
>
>>>> def rgb(h):
>...     n = eval('0x'+h[1:])
>...     return (n>>16)&0xff, (n>>8)&0xff, n&0xff
>... 
>>>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
             ,-^^
             |
            ???
             |
            vvv
>(220, 220, 220)
>>>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
>(220, 220, 10)
>>>> 
>
>I'm sure there's probably some better way, but the above works.

A little better ;-) Avoiding eval when possible, e.g.,

 >>> def rgb(h):
 ...     n = int(h[1:],16)
 ...     return (n>>16)&0xff, (n>>8)&0xff, n&0xff
 ...
 >>> rgb('#DCDCDC')
 (220, 220, 220)
 >>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
 (220, 220, 10)
 >>> rgb('#0a')
 (0, 0, 10)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Mar  9 06:07:00 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 11:07:00 GMT
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0203071057.57204175@posting.google.com> <uofhz8ijm.fsf@python.net> <23891c90.0203080727.30419fd8@posting.google.com> <ac677656.0203081007.5e08cd1a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6cqck$fh4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Tom Good <Tom_Good1 at excite.com> wrote:
[snip]
> This skill level point system sounds like it could be the basis of a
> Python Role-Playing Game.  "My Python Wizard character just gained a
> level.  Now  which statistic should I increase: Python Internals,
> ZOPE, Generators, or PEPs?  ZOPE would help me in combat against
> web-based monsters, but I'll recover hit points more quickly with
> Generators . . ."

See also:

http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/python/moin.cgi/PythonRolePlayingGame

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Tue Mar  5 11:01:51 2002
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:01:51 GMT
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk> <3C84E363.6020106@olen.to>
Message-ID: <3C84EBED.8090607@bath.ac.uk>

Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> Simon Willison wrote:
> 
>> I've written a simple Python script to scan a bunch of URLs for "live" 
>> sites and grab the title of those pages. It works by using popen() to 
>> call lynx and analyse the HTTP response:
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> command = "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"
> 
> 
> Use:
> 
> command=["/opt/bin/lynx","-mime_header","http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"]
> 
> for better security.

I'm a Python newbie :) How does that makes things more secure?



From jochen at unc.edu  Tue Mar 19 20:51:32 2002
From: jochen at unc.edu (Jochen =?iso-8859-1?q?K=FCpper?=)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:51:32 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEPNOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEPNOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <lyofhkknvf.fsf@bock.chem.unc.edu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:20:36 -0500 Tim Peters wrote:

Thanks for the quick answer.  The problem is resolved.

Tim> [jochen at bock.chem.unc.edu]

>> [1]  If it is in there, it doesn't work for me with current python cvs
>> branch release22-maint.  I still have to manually add -lieee.
>> (RedHat-7.0 with current updates.)

Tim> I don't know what "current" meant to you at the time you wrote this.

About 20:00 (8:00pm) EST today, March 19.

Tim> Tim> Michael Hudson did backport the patch into 2.2.1c1, which
Tim> Tim> was released yesterday.  So please try 2.2.1c1, and if you
Tim> Tim> still have a problem, file a bug report about it on
Tim> Tim> SourceForge.  2.2.1 final is expected in about a week.

Well, changing cvs from 
  release22-maint
to
  r221c1
helps.  That is, everything seems to work fine with the cvs sources
tagged r221c1.

Then, is it really necessary to mess up the cvs tags so much? Why
isn't it possible to have a single python-2.2 branch which one could
follow to get all the stuff that's incorporated into that version? [1]

There are huge differences between release22-maint and r221c1, it
seems from the number of patches applied when going from one to the
other.  But then some files are in the same (non-main) branch.  ???

Thanks for all your work, and thank you for the quick help again.

Greetings,
Jochen
- -- 
University of North Carolina                       phone: +1-919-962-4403
Department of Chemistry                            phone: +1-919-962-1579
Venable Hall CB#3290 (Kenan C148)                    fax: +1-919-843-6041
Chapel Hill, NC 27599, USA                            GnuPG key: 44BCCD8E
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6-cygwin-fcn-1 (Cygwin)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt and GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iEYEARECAAYFAjyX6yYACgkQiJ/aUUS8zY76QwCdGZsJd1b+0qJ19LJ5TlvwI5fP
kbcAniNe/5eiPnEUfGbddLCpyYD1+gmr
=fLmk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From dysfate at gmx.de  Thu Mar 21 05:43:45 2002
From: dysfate at gmx.de (Johannes Stiehler)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 11:43:45 +0100
Subject: FastCGI
Message-ID: <a7cdh1$bte$1@minotaurus.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de>

Is there anybody out there who uses python together with fastcgi for
realizing large scale applications. And if so, which FastCGI-Wrapper
is the most recommendable?  

The ones I've looked at so far are: jonpy, fcgi.py,
thfcgi.py. Documentation seems to be lacking for most of them and
jonpy only works with python 2.2 and doesn't seem very flexible. 

Johannes
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
Johannes Stiehler				 stiehler at cis.uni-muenchen.de
Centrum f?r Informations- und Sprachverarbeitung 089/2180-9706
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t 			 Oettingenstr. 67
Systemverwaltung & Anwendungsbetreuung		 80538 M?nchen


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:42 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com>

"G. Sumner Hayes" wrote:
> 
[snip stuff]
> I think a good progammer should master at least one statically typed
> functional language (ocaml is my preference, other examples are ML,
> Haskell), one high-level dynamic language (Python, or Ruby, Smalltalk,
> etc) and C for pragmatic reasons.  That gives some exposure to many
> different kinds of programming.
> 
> After that, Lisp, Prolog, and eiffel are worth a look (not necessarily
> master) from a mind-expansion POV (and some assembly language) and from
> a pragmatic POV Perl, Java, and C++ (on Windows) or Objective C (on Mac)
> or the Unix scripting environment (awk, sed, [k]sh, etc) on Unix.

I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
Or were you thinking strictly from the "job market pragmatism" POV?

-Peter


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 21:58:42 2002
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 18:58:42 -0800
Subject: ANN: Logging Module for Python conforming to PEP 282, first release
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0203141858.54408796@posting.google.com>

I've just made available the first release of a logging module for
Python. It broadly conforms to PEP 282(see
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0282.html - though that is
still a work in progress).

The distribution contains simple examples such as logging to console,
file and streaming sockets. The simplest example might be

# -- app.py ---------------------
import logging

logging.info("Starting...")
logging.warn("Nothing to do!")
logging.info("Done...")
# -- end ------------------------
and logging levels DEBUG, INFO, WARN, ERROR, and FATAL are supported.
Handling of exception information (tracebacks) is supported. Plus a
whole lot more! Levels, Loggers, Handlers, Formatters, Filters...

The documentation can be found at

http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html

Development status is pre-alpha but it has been tried out (I won't say
"tested" :-)) on 1.5.2 and 2.1.1, Windows platforms.

I'm dying to get feedback so please try it out! You can email me via
the link on the documentation page, or give feedback via comp.lang.py
if you deem it appropriate.

Thanks & Regards


Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 10:44:47 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:44:47 GMT
Subject: Connecting to a Gnutella-network
References: <PCnk8.84$5Kn.171039232@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <PFok8.470810$eS3.36104236@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Thomas Weholt" <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote in message
news:PCnk8.84$5Kn.171039232 at news.telia.no...
> Hi,
>
> I've looked at the Gnutella Protocol, v.0.4, and wondered about
trying to
> create an implementation in python. I'm a newbie when it comes to
this sort
> of thing, but have created several simple to complex server types of
> applications using SocketServer and its friends like BaseHTTPServer
etc.
>
> Has anybody tried to do this before? Does anybody have pointers for
newbies
> like me in such a project ( how to start, how to connect to nodes on
a
> gnutella network etc. )
>
> I'll be glad for any pointers you might have.

try google.com: Python Gnutella




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Mar  6 07:23:49 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:23:49 -0500
Subject: mx package
References: <pan.2002.03.06.01.23.47.195291.3038@crystalcherry.com> <Lzlh8.21871$e07.4404@sccrnsc01>
Message-ID: <6Tnh8.355581$n73.11380721@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

Or look on www.egenix.com, whene Marc-Andre Lemburg's Python modules are
pointred to. This will eventually be the standard URL, I believe, but
there's at least a link at the bottom of the page.

regards
Steve
--
"Case Van Horsen" <case at ironwater.com> wrote in message
news:Lzlh8.21871$e07.4404 at sccrnsc01...
>
> "Colin Fox" <cfox at crystalcherry.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2002.03.06.01.23.47.195291.3038 at crystalcherry.com...
> > I'm trying to work with Zope and Postgres, and one of the
> > packages I'm trying to install (psycopg) requirs mxDateTime, which in
> > turn requires mx.
> >
> > I can't find any mention of this 'mx' package anywhere.
> >
> Try searching Google with "mxDateTime". mxDateTime is part of the Base set
> of tools, which is the mx package.
>
> Case
>
>





From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Tue Mar 26 00:53:59 2002
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 13:53:59 +0800
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org> <7isn6o9fld.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk> <mailman.1017115478.17777.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7ieli7an7s.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Isaac> I'd rather suggest to have a Python-specific indentation command
    Isaac> in Emacs that will "reindent a region in a way that fits the
    Isaac> current indentation style and fit in the current context, but
    Isaac> retain the original meaning".  This really shouldn't be that
    Isaac> difficult.  Anyone will try his elisp skills?

    Skip> Check out python-mode:

    Skip> http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/

    Skip> It already has key bindings C-c > and C-c < which indent or dedent
    Skip> the selected region by the indentation delta.  Works like a charm.

This is somewhat close to what I say, but a little bit off: it won't
reindent to the correct tab width.  E.g., if you have the following

def f(a):
    print("Trying " + a)
if (a <= 0):
        return 1
else
        return a * f(a-1)
print("Done")

and you try to use the C-c > command, you end up with

def f(a):
    print("Trying " + a)
    if (a <= 0):
            return 1
    else
            return a * f(a-1)
    print("Done")

It still works, but it doesn't look nice.  What I want is a real
reindentation which understand how Python reads indentation, making it

def f(a):
    print("Trying " + a)
    if (a <= 0):
        return 1
    else
        return a * f(a-1)
    print("Done")

Yes, it is very Python specific.

Regards,
Isaac.


From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 18:51:44 2002
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:51:44 GMT
Subject: Zope stdin
References: <3C8BECF0.30207@void.si>
Message-ID: <kkSi8.96385$V15.14380856@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

http://www.zope.org/Members/haqa/ZCGI

Janez Jere wrote:

> HHi,
> could anyone help me port my simple cgi to zope script. Problem which I
> am unable to solve is reading posted raw data (legacy client posts a xml
> document to my cgi and expects a result).
> 
> Among all my attempts the closest solutions are:
> request.get(BODY) # BODYFILE a
> and
> request.stdin.read() # but it is not allowed to access read method.
> 
> #echo cgi
> import sys, os
> length = os.environ['CONTENT_LENGTH']
> print 'Content-Type: text/plain'
> print
> print sys.stdin.read(int(length))
> 
> Thank for help.
> Janez



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Thu Mar  7 21:13:22 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 02:13:22 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8df64.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <3C86D7CA.F53189AE@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <eppstein-51DA81.19203606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C881016.FE73EDCA@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <slrna8g7i7.737.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:12:54 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
wrote:
> If someone can present a realistic problem requiring
> a loop of that sort, I may be able to suggest something.

    Stop that!  This is usenet!  Reason and logic are not allowed!


-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 28 22:35:47 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 22:35:47 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <a7qqhr$m5$1@panix1.panix.com> <jjb5-0A3399.14320327032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <a80nej$jlp$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <jjb5-0A3399.14320327032002 at newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
Joel Bender  <jjb5 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>Thinking of automatic locking concepts, has there been a PEP for 
>synchronized objects like Java?
>
>    class Snorf:
>        def __init__(self):
>            self.lock = lock.lock()
>
>        def doSomething(self,x) synchronize(self.lock):
>            code
>
>It would be nice if the synchronize parameter could be an instance, 
>class or module lock.

There was some discussion of this in the past month (can't remember if
it was c.l.py or python-dev), but no PEP.  Actually, the discussion came
up with something a bit more general, along the lines of pre- and
post-code:

    class MyLock:
        def start:
        def finish:

    using MyLock():
        <code>

The using construct would automatically call the start() and finish()
methods of the MyLock() instance, no matter what exceptions got raised
in <code>.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Mon Mar  4 11:54:50 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:50 -0600
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEALOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006601c1c39d$4e1d2820$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>


> [Tim]
> > If, e.g., I set PYTHONHOME to \Python22, then execute python while *in*
> > my \Python21 directory (these both referring to PythonLabs distros),
> > then Python 2.1.2 comes up with sys.path pointing entirely at Python 2.2
> > directories.  This is insane, but shows that PYTHONHOME works the way
> > getpathp.c says it works.
>
> [Mark Hammond]
> > insane by design ;)  PYTHONHOME was supposed to be a global override.
>
> What's insane is that *I* would do such a thing, not that PYTHONHOME
> believes me.  It's great that PYTHONHOME believes me.

But you still get the path elements from add-on libraries as well.
PYTHONHOME
doesn't work for me.

> The other form of insanity is that there is no "global override" for *all*
> of sys.path.  Indeed, the lack of a global, no-kidding, I-really-mean-it,
> don't-you-dare-try-to-outguess-me-at-all override is exactly Chris's
> problem.

Yup.  Why don't we have such a thing?

> > ...
> > Or, use MSVC or some other resource editor to change the single string
> > resource in the compiled Pythonxx.DLL (ie, no need to rebuild the DLL).
> >   This will cause a different registry key to be used (by the core, and
> > also by extensions that are registry aware).
>
> Hmm.  In the absence of a global no-kidding whole-sys.path override, maybe
> someone would like to contribute a Python script to fiddle the DLL.
*That*
> should end this thread <wink>.

I ended up changing two registry key values in the DLL using a hex editor.
It's a hack, but it works for me.





From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Mar 18 16:23:22 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:23:22 +0100
Subject: How to "hook" print statement.
Message-ID: <a75le4$gfe$1@norfair.nerim.net>

My problem (Windows)...

I get text in cp1252 (sampled from a file) I want to print to the console.
For this I need to recode this text in cp850 before printing. But if the
stdout is redirected to a file, I need to keep it in cp1252 encoding.

They got strange ideas at MS to hve 2 different encodings for Windows and
DOS console mode.

Any clue to have this done as transparently as possible ?

Thanks in advance.

--Gilles




From akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org  Tue Mar 19 09:39:07 2002
From: akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 14:39:07 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9ejcb.6nd.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list at python.org>, 
   Steven Majewski wrote:
> Nobody supports "Java", although often someone supports particular
> implementations of Java. ( Sun supports J2SE SDK, Apple supports

For some definition of "supports".  Back in December I ran into a Java
VM bug that was reported to Sun in 1999 but doesn't seem to be fixed
in either the VM in Netscape 6.2 or in IBM's 1.3 JVM.  See my
Dec. 18th entry at http://www.amk.ca/diary/2001/dec.html.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Nothing I've ever written has reached 1.0.
    -- Greg Ward at IPC7, on using small version numbers


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Mar 28 07:59:38 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:59:38 +0300
Subject: Zope Install probs on Mandrake 8.2
In-Reply-To: <WGxo8.83$m12.69@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>; from bosahv@netscapenospam.net on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:38AM +0000
References: <WGxo8.83$m12.69@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20020328155938.H11101@phd.pp.ru>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:38AM +0000, Bo Vandenberg wrote:
> "python wo_pcgi.py" fails building the extension modules saying "cannot stat
> `/usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile.pre.in': No such file or directory.

   Zope is incompatible with Python 2.2 yet. Use Pythgon 2.1.2.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar  7 16:54:55 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:54:55 -0800
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
References: <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list@python.org> <7x3czc87qq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3C87E1AF.6F18B426@alcyone.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Once you do this a few times, you will understand the paradox.

Of course, the Monty Hall problem isn't a "paradox" in the mathematical
sense, it's just a somewhat counterintuitive result.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar 22 04:51:28 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:51:28 GMT
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
References: <mailman.1016754857.17727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uhen90vw6.fsf@python.net>

Ken Seehof <kseehof at neuralintegrator.com> writes:

> > Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> > 
> > > Is there an obvious reason why modules imported from the current
> > > directory don't have an absolute pathname for __file__?
> > 
> > No.  I think there's a bug on sf about this.
> > 
> > It would be a bit of a pest to implement, I think, but I may be
> > missing something.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > M.
> 
> I keep bumping into that one too.  I can't think of any advantage
> for the current semantics, so I am submitting a PEP.  I didn't see
> a bug in sf or an existing PEP, but I might have missed something
> so please let me know.  Seems like a PEP is more appropriate than
> a bug report though.

It's here:

    http://www.python.org/sf/415492 

> I can't think of any reason for it to be difficult to implement.
> Seems like the code that assigns to __file__ in the first place
> could simply call abspath(), which should give correct results at
> load time.

Now explain how you import os.path.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ... when all the programmes on all the channels actually were made
  by actors with cleft pallettes speaking lines by dyslexic writers
  filmed by blind cameramen instead of merely seeming like that, it
  somehow made the whole thing more worthwhile.   -- HHGTG, Episode 11


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Mar  7 10:00:08 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 16:00:08 +0100
Subject: hash(unicode(string)) == hash(string) sometimes
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com> <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <7xvgcabcti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <c76ff6fc.0203061510.53d5a91b@posting.google.com> <m3g03cajv9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015502473.28241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4pu2g2zk7.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> Veering off on a tangent, the question of raw_input failing for
> latin-1 input came up on python-help in the last day.  The suggested
> solution was to change the system default encoding.  If not that,
> then what?

Depends on what the problem is. In a terminal, raw_input() works fine
for me. In IDLE, I'd say there is a bug somewhere. I'm not sure what
it is: either raw_input should be allowed to return Unicode strings
(which I'd like more), or IDLE should convert to the 'terminal
encoding' which, on Windows, should be "mbcs".

If there is a bug, it is ok to work around it with any means you find.
It would be better to report it to SF, though.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 05:16:54 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:16:54 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <uachupma3sk1a2@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m3663dnisp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> writes:

> I make it optimistically 180 functions. Given the reasonably
> high quality of the standard library, "return None" almost
> certainly means that the function does not have a return value,
> not that the return value should be treated as False.

Notice a subtlety, though: In a high-quality library, if the
*function* has no return value, the return statement should be just
"return". I'd always assume that the function would normally return an
object, and that "return None" indicates that no object is available
in this case. A quick glance shows that this indeed seems to be the
case in the majority of the cases.

Regards,
Martin



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sun Mar  3 16:27:31 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:27:31 GMT
Subject: C++, Python & Threads
References: <1015181073.276455@seux119> <a5u2k8$a9j$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <np558u8ivm489g65h8fhr4t8a2s91n4pek@4ax.com>

>>(I need to kill threads without adding controls on them, and it
>>seems not to be posible). 

??

A thread should usually kill itself. This is generally accomplished
by sending it a message of some kind.

C//



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Thu Mar  7 08:58:25 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:58:25 -0600
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <20020307101853.GA1326@lurkabove.darkstar>
Message-ID: <002d01c1c5e0$2b225120$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marco Herrn" <herrn at gmx.net>


> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:28:09PM +1300, Greg Ewing wrote:
> > Marco Herrn wrote:
> > > 
> > > hmm, do I have to implement that in _every_ method or just in
> > > methods who use the 'self' statement?
> > 
> > In every method. The instance is always passed in
> > as the first parameter, so there must be a parameter
> > there to receive it, even if it's not used inside
> > the method.
> 
> Is there a reason why this is just a convention? It seems (because it is
> such a _strong_ convention) that this should be a real feature of the
> language. I mean that there could be a reserved word "self" which is
> there all the time, so that one doesn't hast to do this himself.

Python is by nature a pragmatic language, and one design philosophy
which is considered very important is "Explicit is better than implicit."
This particular feature, namely that the first method argument is "self",
is simply how it is in the language.  You can use "I" as one poster 
suggested, or "me" as another mentioned some time ago; readability isn't
harmed much.

I'm pretty lazy, but four characters isn't that much work even if you have
to type them over and over in some cases.  Isn't it Java that uses an 
implicit "this" variable, or is that Javascript?  Python programmers 
prefer explicit declarations.





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 11:18:13 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:18:13 -0500
Subject: chat server
References: <B8C97068.C30E%pete@dexterslab.de> <3CA4544D.6646CB30@q-survey.be> <a81lov$kk7$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3CA493C5.6FCE20@engcorp.com>

Henning Peters wrote:
> 
> > Don't reinvent the wheel. Use asyncore.py and asynchat.py, it's
> > part of the standard Python library.
> 
> hmm, but it's fun for me to make my own way...

Fun, maybe, but if you don't figure it out for yourself it won't
be very fun.  And if you ask for help and the suggestions are
along the lines of "why bother?  here's a better solution that
doesn't involve us spending lots of time showing you how to 
write something unnecessary", then you should probably either
follow those suggestions or go back and figure it out on your
own, the fun way...

-Peter


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Mar 29 04:47:04 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:47:04 +0000
Subject: Program termination problem
References: <ua6r509m5uradc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a819dp$1la3$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Garyr wrote:
> I have a program that displays a Tkinter Text widget. I would like to be
> able to place text in the window via the clipboard. I found the following
> clipboard code in a Google post:
> 
> import win32clipboard as clip
>          ...
>         clip.OpenClipboard(0)
>         if clip.IsClipboardFormatAvailable(clip.CF_TEXT):
>            newText = clip.GetClipboardData(clip.CF_TEXT)
>           textwidget.insert(END, newText)
>         clip.CloseClipboard()
> 
> This works but it causes the program to hang on exit. mainloop() returns
> but the DOS window is frozen. The problem is associated with the clipboard
> functions; i.e., commenting the insert line has no effect.

I've already noticed that mixing Tkinter with calls to win32 functions 
often ends up with crashing or freezing programs. To do what you want to 
do, you'd better use the built-in clipboard management methods in Tkinter. 
With these methods, what you're trying to do may be written (untested code):

try:
  newText = yourTopLevelWindow.selection_get(selection='CLIPBOARD')
  textwidget.insert(END, newText)
except TclError:
  ## Nothing or incompatible data in clipboard
  pass

For copy operation, use the methods clipboard_clear and clipboard_append on 
your top-level window.

HTH
 - eric -



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 18:18:45 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:18:45 -0500
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98@engcorp.com> <Sl6p8.121147$7b.11125497@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4F655.4956016@engcorp.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98 at engcorp.com...
> > Jon Cosby wrote:
> 
> > > lword = len(firstword)
> 
> You missed that lword *is* the length of firstword, not firstword
> itself, making

D'oh!  I'll fall back on my claim that with inadequate commenting,
it was pretty hard to figure out what was going on. ;-)


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Wed Mar 13 17:51:43 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:51:43 -0700
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158D99@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Bengt Richter [mailto:bokr at oz.net] 
> 
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:30:47 +0300, Oleg Broytmann 
> <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 08:15:39PM +0100, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> >> And what about:
> >> db.query("""SELECT   foo, bar
> >>             FROM     %(table)s
> >>             WHERE    rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)d
> >>             AND      name = '%(name)s'""" % locals())
> >> 
> >> pure standard Python :)
> >
> >   This will fail if name = "O'Hara". Or name = 'Tutti"""Frutti'.
> >
> Ok, then how about:
> ---
>  >>> table = 'theTable'
>  >>> rsrc_id = 1234567
>  >>> class QEsc:
>  ...     def __init__(self,s): self.sesc = 
> "\\'".join('\\"'.join(s.split('"')).split> ("'"))
>  ...     def 
> __str__(self): return self.sesc
>  ...
>  
> >>> for badname in ["O'Hara", 'Tutti"""Frutti']:
>  ...     name = QEsc(badname)
>  ...     print """SELECT   foo, bar
>  ...               FROM     %(table)s
>  ...               WHERE    rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)d
>  ...               AND      name = '%(name)s'""" % locals()
>  ...
>  SELECT   foo, bar
>                FROM     theTable
>                WHERE    rsrc_id = 1234567
>                AND      name = 'O\'Hara'

Except that's not how SQL is quoted (It should have been 'O''Hara').
Besides, anyone not using bound variables must be crazy <wink>

-- bjorn



From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Sun Mar 17 19:41:22 2002
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:41:22 -0500
Subject: bug reporting
Message-ID: <001301c1ce15$a444ec60$0334fea9@carol>

In thread  "Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2"

Martin writes -
>If you think you found a bug, submit a bug report.

It could waste time of the developers to have to
weed through false alarm bug reports.  One of the
roles of this list is to vet some of these issues.

I had posted up behavior that I thought could be anything
from my own misunderstanding of fundamentals to
a bug in the core.  Their was only one response on the list -
to the effect that the behavior could be duplicated on his machine, with the
implication that it was unanticipated
behavior from his point of view as well.

The issue was related to overloading operators in a class subbed from the
'complex' built-in - not exactly a high traffic lane, I suspect.

Is the recommendation to submit it as a maybe bug?

>If you know how to fix it, submitting a patch would be even >more
appreciated.

I'm holding out for check-in rights ;)

Art






From tim-dated-1016821077.7a095e at catseye.net  Fri Mar 15 13:17:56 2002
From: tim-dated-1016821077.7a095e at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 12:17:56 -0600
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
In-Reply-To: <a6sl8j$4au$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>
	<a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net>
	<a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
	<mailman.1016138490.22557.python-list@python.org>
	<a6sl8j$4au$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <86zo1966gb.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

Peter Dobcsanyi <dpeter at designtheory.org> writes:

> Oops, you are right! I fixed it and ran the test again.
> 
> 3000 times, Python 2.2, Linux:
> 
>     i in range(len(ls)):             2.03
>     x in ls; i+= :                   2.28
>     lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x):  3.76
>     Iter class:                     10.18
> 
> 10000 times:
> 
>     i in range(len(ls)):             6.68
>     x in ls; i+=1 :                  7.55
>     lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x): 12.56
>     Iter class:                     35.56
> 
> Interestingly, "range(len(ls))" is still faster.

Cool.  And you're right, it's very interesting.  I wonder why /F
thought the bar() version would be faster.  The results seem to
suggest that adding 1 to a number is slower than indexing a list (the
one generated by range).


Tim



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar  4 20:26:16 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:26:16 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015287849.16661.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-694CCC.17261604032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015287849.16661.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> [David Eppstein]
> > It seems like it should be really easy to modify the parser to
> > parse
>     "for" expression ":"
> > and then check whether the expression is an "in" or a
> > comparison...
> 
> You might want to think this through a bit more since neither arbitrary
> "expression" nor arbitrary "conditional" is supported in the suggestions
> posted so far.

I didn't suggest that it would be.
I suggested that this would be a way to implement the parser for 
for-loops, if for some reason it's too much work to make it parse only 
the expressions allowed in a for-loop.


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar  4 20:19:38 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:19:38 +1100 
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1D7@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu]
>
> For the same reason that
>     for item in list
> works but
>     for dictionary.has_key(item)
> doesn't:  The for-loop syntax only allows a very restricted set of 

Just realised something for PEP 276.

If it passes,

for i in dictionary.has_key(item):

would then be valid ... as it would return 0 or 1. This may or may not be
considered a bad thing - it would be equivalent to:

if dictionary.has_key(item):

for any condition that does return 0 or 1.

Tim Delaney



From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar  9 09:58:47 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:58:47 GMT
Subject: Turn string into function call
References: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com> <E58i8.17062$N7.3653694@ruti.visi.com> <a6crpv$f6d$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8k8pv.1d5.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <a6crpv$f6d$1 at panix2.panix.com>, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> In article <E58i8.17062$N7.3653694 at ruti.visi.com>,
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>>In article <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec at posting.google.com>, N Becker wrote:
>>>
>>> What's the best way to turn a string naming a function into a function call?
>>> 
>>> I used this:
>>> eval (funcname + '()')
>>
>>This really ought to go into the FAQ.  It's been asked (and
>>answered) at least 3 times in the past week or so.
> 
> Okay, here's a proposed FAQ entry, for section 4:
> 
> How do I convert a string to a function/method call?
> 
> There are two basic techniques:
> 
> * Use a dictionary pre-loaded with strings and functions.  The primary
> advantage of this technique is that the strings do not need to match the
> names of the functions.  This is also the primary technique used to
> emulate a case construct:
> 
>     def a():
>         pass
> 
>     def b():
>         pass
>     
>     dispatch = {'go': a, 'stop': b}  # Note lack of parens for funcs
> 
>     dispatch[get_input()]()  # Note trailing parens to call function
> 
> * Use the built-in function getattr():
> 
>     import foo
>     getattr(foo, 'bar')()
> 
> Note that getattr() works on any object, including classes, class
> instances, modules, and so on.

I think it would also be good to mention the eval() method, and
the locals() method (and the problems with both).  I started to
write up a FAQ yesterday but didn't get very far...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I predict that by
                                  at               1993 everyone will live in
                               visi.com            and around LAS VEGAS and
                                                   wear BEATLE HAIRCUTS!


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 20 18:05:09 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:05:09 +1100
Subject: bug tracking system
In-Reply-To: <3C9836DF.1E877634@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1016598631.8231.python-list@python.org> <3C9836DF.1E877634@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200203202305.XAA21573@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:14, Peter Hansen wrote:
> mohamed lazreg wrote:
> > Dear pythoners,
> >
> > Are you aware of any free bug tracking system written
> > in python?
>
> Several based on Zope...  (http://www.zope.org)

Note that Roundup has a Zope interface allowing you to access Roundup 
trackers through Zope.

   http://roundup.sf.net/


    Richard



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Mon Mar 25 08:45:44 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 00:45:44 +1100
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au> <1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost> <mailman.1016855556.16177.python-list@python.org> <Xns91DC65AB692BBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <m3663k69rr.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:

Duncan> Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> wrote in
Duncan> news:mailman.1016855556.16177.python-list at python.org:

>> You are forced to embed programming logic which is used to
>> dynamically alter the presentation of the interface directly inside
>> the presentation elements.  I have a feeling that this makes the
>> whole template unduly fragile and resistant to change.

Duncan> I would have said you are forced to remove almost all
Duncan> programming logic from the template entirely and wrap it up in
Duncan> a separate script. All that is left in the template is the
Duncan> display logic.

That is the best way to go IMO.  ZPT seems fine to me except in the
coarser aspects of template programming.  Control flow in particular
just does not look right to me.

>> The idea that an HTML developer who does not understand ZPT will be
>> able to ignore the ZPT attributes and just change the interface in
>> isolation is a fantasy.  The ZPT attributes define an executable
>> program - their correct placement is critical to the functioning of
>> the template.  Note that the same is true of Albatross tags, but
>> you can change the HTML in isolation to the Albatross tags.

Duncan> I agree with you here up to a point. I would break down the
Duncan> roles into html developer who needs to know some ZPT,
Duncan> presentation developer who just needs to know what not to
Duncan> touch, and content developer who just needs to know which
Duncan> parts of the page require content.

Are you suggesting that there are three different people would work on
the same template file?

IMO there would be some sort of graphic design done which may not
necessarily produce useful HTML - that design would be taken by the
content developer who would then build the template.

Duncan> You can even edit ZPT using Microsoft Frontpage, and mostly
Duncan> things don't break. If someone is simply adding content to a
Duncan> specified cell in a table, then they can edit happily within
Duncan> that cell. It would be nice though if the HTML editor could
Duncan> somehow be told to make the rest of the template readonly.

I expect that most HTML editors are pretty good when they encounter
stuff that they don't understand.

Duncan> I think that until I actually used ZPT, it wasn't obvious just
Duncan> how good a job it does of separating the logic, the
Duncan> presentation, and the content.

You are talking my language there.  One of the things which makes me
dislike PHP is that there is little effort to perform separation.
Sort of what you would expect from a perl for web pages.

Duncan> In particular the CMF skins help a lot.

I haven't looked at CMF skins.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From cbbrowne at acm.org  Mon Mar 11 11:58:07 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 11:58:07 -0500
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3lmczavog.fsf@salesman.cbbrowne.com>

In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, drevenhaug at hotmail.com (Graz Bukanoff) transmitted:
> Is Python an object based programming langauge?

Most languages involve manipuation of some form of "object," so that
even COBOL could be claimed to be an "object based programming
language."

You might want to be more specific about what you mean by "object,"
otherwise people could say "yes" or "no" with equal legitimacy as they
intend different meanings of "object."
-- 
(reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn@" "enworbbc"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/wp.html


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 20:07:52 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:07:52 +0000
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com> <u9kssravjn3a43@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <46ln9u4mi1f9vkjbob8lgkhm9kmgsb3m9a@4ax.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:

>I don't. I got bit by the XP bug a while back, and now I
>write all unit tests in advance, using the 'unittest' module.
>I keep the editor (PythonWin) open, save the module
>I've just changed, and invoke a script at the command line
>to run the current test set. Works like a charm, and has the
>additional advantage that I don't have to worry about
>breaking things with changes - the unit tests are persistant,
>so they'll tell me.
>
>I don't have to go into the debugger very much to figure
>out a problem, so reloading the module from scratch
>isn't a significant issue.

That's fine for small systems - and I do the same - but for large
systems the supporting environment for a single object is too complex.
We are working on a system of >50 modules you simply can't run most
modules in isolation.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Mar 24 15:00:08 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 14:00:08 -0600
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <m31yec2b9g.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
	<1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost> 
	<m31yec2b9g.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <1017000019.3094.31.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2002-03-22 at 21:50, Dave Cole wrote:
> I had a crazy idea a while ago which would stop us having to do the
> thing that you pointed out:
> 
>     <td bgcolor="<al-value expr="bgcolor">">
> 
> The idea, which I am still not sold on, goes a bit like this:
> 
>     <al-attr id="fancytable" name="bgcolor" value="pink">
> 
>     <al-td id="fancytable">
> 
> The first bit of template attaches an attribute name and value to an
> attribute id.  This attribute association would be stored in the
> execution context so you could define values in your Python code if
> you wished.  Albatross tags would then retrieve values from the
> association by using the same id attribute.
> 
> This would allow Albatross templates to be much more flexible.
> Consider the <al-for> tag.  At the moment you have to staticly decide
> the name of the iterator.  This means that you cannot reuse a bunch of
> template code which paginated a sequence in a macro since you would be
> using the same iterator for multiple sequences.  With the above you
> could do this (not really a good example):
> 
>    <al-macro name="list">
>     <al-for id="list">
>      blah blah <al-usearg>
>     </al-for>
>    </al-macro>
> 
>    <al-attr id="list" name="iter" value="i">
>    <al-attr id="list" name="pagesize" value="10">
>    <al-expand name="list">spam</al-expand>
> 
>    <al-attr id="list" name="iter" value="j">
>    <al-attr id="list" name="pagesize" value="15">
>    <al-expand name="list">eggs</al-expand>
> 
> The functionality would require an extensive reworking of the tags
> code.  There are some advantages to the approach but I am still a
> bit concerned that it is too obscure.

For this problem, I think the solution is in the interpreter -- your
macros are just hard to work with (from what I can see), because they
are dynamically scoped and being used in lieu of real functions.  It's
not a syntax issue.

> Andrew has since mentioned changing the way that the we name the
> Albatross processed attributes to make them more functional and
> consistent.  Something like:
> 
>    <al-input name="field">             <!-- normal HTML -->
>    <al-input name.expr="expr">         <!-- name from eval'ed expr -->
> 
> I am starting to think that this would be an excellent idea.
> 
> Ian> Of course there's the ZPT approach, which isn't bad, but then you
> Ian> might as well use ZPT.  But I guess there's no reason you can't
> Ian> use something like ZPT just for changing attributes, like:
> 
> Ian>   <table al:bgcolor="something">
> 
> I have a few concerns about ZPT.
> 
> You are forced to embed programming logic which is used to dynamically
> alter the presentation of the interface directly inside the
> presentation elements.  I have a feeling that this makes the whole
> template unduly fragile and resistant to change.
> 
> The idea that an HTML developer who does not understand ZPT will be
> able to ignore the ZPT attributes and just change the interface in
> isolation is a fantasy.  The ZPT attributes define an executable
> program - their correct placement is critical to the functioning of
> the template.  Note that the same is true of Albatross tags, but you
> can change the HTML in isolation to the Albatross tags.

I'm not sold on all the benefits of ZPT either, but I think it's a
natural fit for the particular case of replacing an attribute value.  To
me, <td al:bgcolor="something dynamic"> reads pretty well, and should
make some intuitive sense even if you don't understand the scripting
itself.  All attributes are kind of hidden, and the dynamic statement is
no more hidden than the thing it is replacing.

Also, you're left with a mostly-intact tag -- al-td isn't an HTML tag,
and software that understands HTML won't understand that tag.  That
means you can't preview the unrendered code in a browser and you can't
let a WYSIWYG editor touch it.  

  Ian





From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Mar  1 00:32:06 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 21:32:06 -0800
Subject: ASV module, CVS modules
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com>

ron at ire.org (ron nixon) wrote in message news:<61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello, I'm trying to use either of these two modules ASV by Laurence
> Tratt at http://tratt.net/laurie/python/asv/ and CSV by Dave Cole at
> http://object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/. I tried both of these and
> get this error:
> 
> Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
> >>> import ASV
> >>> my_data = ASV.ASV()
> >>> my_data.input_from_file("c:\test_data.csv", ASV.CSV(),
> has_field_names =1)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
>     my_data.input_from_file("c:\test_data.csv", ASV.CSV(),
> has_field_names =1)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\ASV.py", line 222, in input_from_file
>     file = open(input_file, "rb")
> IOError: invalid argument: rb
> >>> 
> 
> I get a similar message from CSV module. Anyone use either of these
> and can tell me what's wrong?
> 

Wow. You have two problems. Bill Gates has one. And one of either you
or Dave Cole will get busted real soon now if you keep smoking that
stuff :-)

To be more explicit:

You 1: Don't clutter the root directory of your C: drive with anything
other than "necessary" directories, and files other than what Bill &
other software providers dump in there.

You 2: On Windows, either use forward slashes "c:/test_data.csv" (it
works!) -- recommended -- or use raw strings r"c:\test_data.csv" if
you must. The problem is that Python's escape handling intervenes;
what Bill's software got to see in your case was equivalent to "C:" +
a_bloody_tab_character + "est_data.csv" !!!

Bill behaving badly: Seems like Bill chucks a wobbly if there is
a_bloody_tab_character in a file name. I could be maligning Bill
unjustly; could be GvR & Co -- I'll have a look at the Python source
in a minute -- but I'd bet a couple of pots of beer that it's down to
Bill.

You and/or Dave in peril of the law: Last time I saw Dave's module it
didn't presume to read files at all, it expected you to read lines and
pass them to it one at a time. So either Dave has had a very recent
rush of blood or something worse to the head and released unbeknownst
to me a file-handling version of his module, or you are gravely
mistaken when you assert "I get a similar message from CSV module".

Hope this helps,
John


From frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk  Tue Mar 12 09:43:18 2002
From: frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:43:18 +0100
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
References: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de> <20020311140817.L25769@phd.pp.ru> <mailman.1015850417.6509.python-list@python.org> <a6iege$8hv$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1015944219.970193@robert>

"Harald Schneider" <h_schneider at marketmix.com> wrote in message
news:a6iege$8hv$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Maybe this helps:
> http://www.zope.org/Members/mcdonc/RelationalDatabaseWiki/GadFly
> http://cvs.zope.org/Products/ZGadflyDA/gadfly/#dirlist
>

Hmm -

It would be great if someone could repackage the Zope teams updated version
and distribute it as a stand-alone Python module on SourceForge, thus
Keeping it Alive.




From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 13 04:11:46 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:11:46 GMT
Subject: Is there a good reason why we cannot (as of 2.1.1) deepcopy complex objects?
References: <e395b886.0203120834.3cc1eb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <upu28suak.fsf@python.net>

idot at vt.edu (Carl Banks) writes:

> Strangely, I've found no mention of this anywhere: the docs, the
> Python FAQ, or the Google archives.

Umm, news to me!  You can in 2.2, which seems to be the first version
(at least since 1.5.2) where this is possible.

I suspect this has gone unnoticed because:
(a) not all that many people use copy.deepcopy
(b) not all that many people us complex numbers.

I don't think I've ever used the copy module for anything, and I've
only used complex objects for playing around interactively.

CHeers,
M.

-- 
  SCSI is not magic. There are fundamental technical reasons why it
  is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and
  then.                                                  -- John Woods


From christophe.delord at free.fr  Tue Mar  5 13:13:18 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:13:18 +0100
Subject: Problem with SRE's regular expressions
References: <3C83D5C6.7010303@free.fr> <W5Rg8.29781$l93.5779533@newsb.telia.net> <3C83EA12.5030406@free.fr> <slrna87vme.9nv.QnickQm@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3C850ABE.8070501@free.fr>

Thanks for your benchmark.

In fact with <<([^>]|>[^>])*>> I have the same recursion limit problem 
and I use this expression : '<<((?:[^>]+|>[^>]+)*)>>'
It's very close to your solution (just one more '+')

I'm think of another solution : <<(>?[^>]+)*>>

def match_with_big_groups_2():
     r = re.compile(r'<<(>?[^>]+)*>>')
     for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)

def non_grouping_match_with_big_groups_2():
     r = re.compile(r'<<(?:>?[^>]+)*>>')
     for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)

With these two expressions I can run a little faster.

On my computer I get :

2.2 (#1, Feb 12 2002, 22:46:37)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)]
                           simple_version 62.705866
                       non_grouping_match 60.567762
                    match_with_big_groups 1.558770
       non_grouping_match_with_big_groups 1.232597
                          nongreedy_match 27.859934
                  match_with_big_groups_2 0.933109
     non_grouping_match_with_big_groups_2 0.779298


non_grouping_match_with_big_groups is 50X faster than simple_version

non_grouping_match_with_big_groups_2 is 80X faster than simple_version


I'll-rewrite-my-scanners-too-ly Y'rs,
Christophe.


Nick Mathewson wrote:

> In article <3C83EA12.5030406 at free.fr>, Christophe Delord wrote:
> 
>>Thanks for your explanation!
>>
>>In my real program, I had a more complex regexp. I need to match text 
>>enclosed in << ... >>
>>I first have used such an expression : <<([^>]|>[^>])*>>
>>but I prefered <<.*?>> because it is more readable.
>>
>>I'll listen to the advice and use my old regexp to see how faster it is 
>>this way ;-)
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Christophe.
>>
> 
> #
> # Actually, it looks like you can do at least sixty times better than
> # the re you have above.
> #
> 
> import sys, time, re
> 
> print sys.version
> 
> def timefn(fn):
>     t = time.time()
>     fn()
>     t = time.time() - t
>     print "%40s %f" % (fn.__name__, t)
> 
> m#Very Long String 
> vls = "<<" + " <that's still a very very big string!> "*100 + ">>"
> 
> def simple_version():
>     ' This is the version from your post '
>     r = re.compile(r'<<([^>]|>[^>])*>>')
>     for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)
> 
> def non_grouping_match():
>     ' This one uses non-grouping matches '
>     r = re.compile(r'<<(?:[^>]|>[^>])*>>')
>     for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)
> 
> def match_with_big_groups():
>     ''' This one uses [^>]+ inside the group, in order to make each group
>         as large as possible. '''
>     r = re.compile(r'<<([^>]+|>[^>])*>>')
>     for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)
> 
> def non_grouping_match_with_big_groups():
>     ' This version uses both of the above tricks. '
>     r = re.compile(r'<<(?:[^>]+|>[^>])*>>')
>     for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)
> 
> def nongreedy_match():
>     " And for comparison, here's the one with the nongreedy match. "
>     r = re.compile(r'<<.*?>>')
>     for i in xrange(10000): r.match(vls)
> 
> 
> timefn(simple_version)
> timefn(non_grouping_match)
> timefn(match_with_big_groups)
> timefn(non_grouping_match_with_big_groups)
> timefn(nongreedy_match)
> 
> #
> # Platform:
> #    2.2+ (#30, Jan 29 2002, 21:20:45) 
> #    [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)]
> #
> # OUTPUT
> #                          simple_version 37.967640
> #                      non_grouping_match 34.108361
> #                   match_with_big_groups 0.818009
> #      non_grouping_match_with_big_groups 0.634849
> #                         nongreedy_match 16.892410
> 
> So it looks like the big win is to use [^>]+ inside your parenthesis.
> It's a slight improvement to use (?: ) instead of ( ), but not much.
> 
> Bonus observation 1: In this case, the overhead from matching a
> parenthesized expression over and over is more than than the
> backtracking overhead from '.*?' .
> 
> Bonus observation 2: I purposefully put some '>' characters into the
> test string.  When I took them out, I found that the 60X performance
> improvement turned into a 332X performance.  Thus, the winning pattern
> above is fastest of all when the parenthesized expression matches only
> once.
> 
> It-looks-like-I'm-going-to-have-to-go-rewrite-all-the-scanners-I'm-
>   maintaining-ly Y'rs
> 
> 


-- 
Christophe Delord
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar  5 18:36:02 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 00:36:02 +0100
Subject: undefined symbols when linking Python into a shared library
References: <3C8540B5.E133D407@freenet.de>
Message-ID: <m3zo1m4mfx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Michael Neuroth <michael.neuroth at freenet.de> writes:

> I link libpyhton.a into the shared library, I tried also to link
> with the option -Xlinker -export-dynamic, as told by the python
> documentation (section:Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter,
> 5.6 Linking Requirements). The shared library is a little bit lager,
> but the resulting error is the same. How can I verify, that this
> symbols are in the shared library?

On Linux, use "nm -D foo.so" to see the symbols exported by foo.so.

> What is the magic option to solve that (linker?) problem?

You'll need to understand the problem first before trying to find a
solution. I, for one, can only guess what is going on: most likely,
your shared library really does not provide the symbol missing in
_tkinter.so; this is probably not surprising, since the linker, when
creating the library, had no clue that the symbol might be needed.

In any case, it is a bad idea to incorporate libpython.a object files
into a shared library, as this is non-PIC code.

Regards,
Martin


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Mar 26 17:24:53 2002
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven Majewski)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:24:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020326080709.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203261722360.326-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.Virginia.EDU>


On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

>
> On 26-Mar-2002 m2 at plusseven.com wrote:
> >
> > Just out curiosity,
> > why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
> >
> > def fact1(n):
> >     return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
> >
>
> bigger problem here.  fact2 returns a long, fact1 returns an integer.  So
> fact1(100) fails.
>


	reduce(operator.mul, range(1,n+1), 1L )

 fixes that, but it's even slower.

-- Steve Majewski





From sid at claudius87.plusserver.de  Fri Mar 22 20:08:20 2002
From: sid at claudius87.plusserver.de (Juergen Gather)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:08:20 +0100
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
In-Reply-To: <BFFEB31BC23CCD44B8924E139E1D87E41241B3@MAILBOX.nameconnector.com>
References: <BFFEB31BC23CCD44B8924E139E1D87E41241B3@MAILBOX.nameconnector.com>
Message-ID: <10413617240.20020323020820@claudius87.plusserver.de>

GT> sent message at Fri Mar 22 14:14:01 2002
GT> socket exception caught at Fri Mar 22 14:18:01 2002
GT> Traceback (most recent call last):
GT>   File "D:\junk\SocketTimeoutTest\client.py", line 13, in ?
GT>     data = s.recv(1024)
GT>   File "<string>", line 1, in recv
GT> socket.error: (10054, 'Connection reset by peer')

GT> When I use a time shorter than 4 minutes in the time.sleep(), the output
GT> from client.py looks like:

GT> sent message at Fri Mar 22 14:20:43 2002
GT> Received 15 bytes: Goodbye, world!
GT> closed socket at Fri Mar 22 14:20:58 2002

GT> So something is breaking the socket after 4 minutes.

GT> I should note that this is on a Windows NT 4.0 SP6 box.  Perhaps I'll try
GT> Win2K to see if there's a difference there.

I tried it under XP and there is exactly the same behaviour you
describe above - only that its only 2 minutes (exact again!) until the
socket breaks.

Under FreeBSD there seems to be no such problem. I also tried to
put client and server on different machines and everything is ok with
server on the XP-Box and client on BSD while server on BSD and client
on XP is breaking the socket after the "magic" 2 minutes.

I can't tell if BSD or Windows behaviour is justified but it sure is
irritating if code that looks platform independent (at least it does
for me) decides not to be ;-).

I suspect there should be some registry entry under Windows influencing
this behaviour - any ideas ?

Juergen




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 03:56:35 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:56:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regular expressions newbie: something for templates
References: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <Xns91CE5AFAB8BE2duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Thomas Weholt" <thomas at weholt.org> wrote in
news:idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517 at news2.ulv.nextra.no: 
> I'm not getting the hang of regular expressions. All I want to do is
> this. 
> 
> Take string #1 :
> 
> "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
> 
> and turn it into
> 
> "This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s"
> 

When in doubt, avoid regular expressions. You might be better off doing 
something like this, which also allows you to escape a dollar sign into 
your output string:

>>> s = "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
>>> def template(s):
...     lst = s.split('$')
...     for i in range(1, len(lst), 2):
...         if lst[i]:
...             lst[i] = '%('+lst[i]+')s'
...         else:
...             lst[i] = '$'
...     return ''.join(lst)
...
>>> print template(s)
This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s
>>> print template('and this has $$ signs')
and this has $ signs

Optional enhancements would be to check the list length is odd (otherwise 
there was an unmatched dollar) and to replace all % with %% before 
starting.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 03:05:57 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 03:05:57 -0500
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015421793.13369.python-list@python.org> <5d283efe.0203062119.26642fd8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <83ofhjhdei.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

daniels at mindspring.com (Alan Daniels) writes:
> 1) Right now, we have complete orthogonality between "for" and "if".
> "for i in seq:" will be called for each value where "if i in seq:" is
> true. Adding "for i in 5" destroys this.

for i < 5:
for 0 <= i < 5:



From p.vrijlandt at aig.azn.nl  Fri Mar  1 11:02:11 2002
From: p.vrijlandt at aig.azn.nl (Patrick Vrijlandt)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:02:11 +0100
Subject: Telnet connection
References: <a5iskt$ge8$1@wanadoo.fr> <a5iuq9$7701i$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <a5j53i$oms$1@wanadoo.fr> <8z9f2rks.fsf@fido.trinitycapital.com> <a5j7fb$fb$1@wanadoo.fr> <a5k352$etg$0@216.39.172.122> <a5lu00$29p$1@wanadoo.fr> <a5mfh7$9fa$0@216.39.172.122> <a5nmas$mfe$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a5o8m5$fne$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>

The problem could of course be in insufficient negotiation capabilities of
telnetlib.
Again, you would find out by using your browser or the standard windows
Telnet client.

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> schreef in bericht
news:a5nmas$mfe$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On 28 Feb 2002 23:46:47 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:51:06 +0100, "Riss Nicolas"
<alien275 at libertysurf.fr> wrote:
> >
> >>Has somebody a python program where it is an telnet connection ?
> >
> >You appear to be running windows. What happens if you get into your
browser
> >and put
> >
> >    telnet://192.168.0.9:32
> >
> >in the location (i.e., what you are trying to connect to with your code)?
> >Do you get a telnet client screen with a login prompt?
> >
> >Did you try \r\n in place of plain \n in your code?
> >
>
> Whoa, I just realized your program seems to be missing
> a couple of lines for waiting for a user prompt and sending
> the user name.
>
> After that, wait for the password prompt. At least
> that is typical. Or do you have some special telnet server
> setup that bypasses that? Maybe it still needs a \r\n to
> trigger it past the missing user entry? It's hard to say
> with so little info.
>
> Or copy from the screen of a manual login and successful
> connect with a couple commands. (Do you connect to an ordinary
> shell or some special program)?
>
> BTW, if you somehow have wrapped your telnet program execution
> in a try: do_it() except: pass, you could be missing a bug-caused
> exception discussed in another thread. You might want to try
> changing line 424 of telnetlib.py. In the other thread I wrote:
>
> I suspect line 424
>     self.msg('IAC %d not recognized' % ord(opt))
> should be
>     self.msg('IAC %d not recognized' % ord(c))
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter
> PS., explain in French if that helps. Someone will translate if needed.
> Maybe even if not needed ;-)
>




From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Tue Mar 19 06:20:11 2002
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:20:11 +0000
Subject: Checkboxes and Tortured Logic
References: <4378fa6f.0203181538.5cde340e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a776qq$2ama$1@mail1.wg.waii.com>

Marc wrote:

> I know there's got to be a better way to do this than the way that I
> found. But the only way I've been able to succesfully retrieve a value
> from a checkbox (using the scant documentation I've been able to find)


>From the docs....

(pydoc Tkinter.Checkbutton)


class Checkbutton(Widget)
 |  Checkbutton widget which is either in on- or off-state.
 |
 |  _Misc__winfo_getint = __winfo_getint(self, x) from Tkinter.Misc
 |
 |  _Misc__winfo_parseitem = __winfo_parseitem(self, t) from Tkinter.Misc
 |
 |  __getitem__ = cget(self, key) from Tkinter.Misc
 |
 |  __init__(self, master=None, cnf={}, **kw)
 |      Construct a checkbutton widget with the parent MASTER.
 |
 |      Valid resource names: activebackground, activeforeground, anchor,
 |      background, bd, bg, bitmap, borderwidth, command, cursor,
 |      disabledforeground, fg, font, foreground, height,
 |      highlightbackground, highlightcolor, highlightthickness, image,
 |      indicatoron, justify, offvalue, onvalue, padx, pady, relief,
 |      selectcolor, selectimage, state, takefocus, text, textvariable,
 |      underline, variable, width, wraplength.

.....


So I guess you need the onvalue and offvalue parameters set...









From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Mar  5 10:45:35 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 16:45:35 +0100
Subject: I've got the unicode blues
References: <3c846d80.95456984@news.isar.de> <j4eliz73vp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3c848c0e.103279375@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <j4n0xn5880.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) writes:

> All tests were made using
> 
> PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32 
> 
> from inside PythonWin.

I see. That the stream reader doesn't work will be fixed shortly;
the fix is

Index: codecs.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Lib/codecs.py,v
retrieving revision 1.23
diff -u -r1.23 codecs.py
--- codecs.py	19 Sep 2001 11:24:48 -0000	1.23
+++ codecs.py	5 Mar 2002 15:42:57 -0000
@@ -252,7 +252,7 @@
         return self.decode(line, self.errors)[0]
 
 
-    def readlines(self, sizehint=0):
+    def readlines(self, sizehint=None):
 
         """ Read all lines available on the input stream
             and return them as list of lines.

Regards,
Martin


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Mar 15 19:27:24 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:27:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <mailman.1016042063.7531.python-list@python.org>  <a6qjeq$fvcf8$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna954bc.h7j.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <a6qjeq$fvcf8$1 at ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>, Bertrand Geston wrote:
[...]
>Let's keep things simple and understandable :
>- lists are ordered sets,
>- dictionnaries are "keyed" sets.

The standard mathematical definition of sequences (as opposed to
ordered sets) is a partial function mapping integers to elements. This
seems awfully close to what you're calling "keyed" sets, by
restricting the domain to integers. It also seems awfully close to
Python lists (for instance). I see nothing inconsistent or illogical
about list.keys. list.indices is an alternative, of course, but would
not allow for polymorphic use.

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From shredwheat at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 22:45:36 2002
From: shredwheat at attbi.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:45:36 GMT
Subject: streaming images
References: <a65pv7$jiv$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <3C86E417.9040803@attbi.com>

Bill wrote:
> I'm receiving images through the network from a server.  I use python and
> PIL to receive the image.  I need to display the images in real time as they
> come (meaning I cant save a bunch of them and create an animated GIF or
> something like that).  If I do an image.show() on each image I receive, a
> seperate window will pop up for each image and the desktop gets cluttered.
> Any ideas on how to do this?  Is there a way for me to UPDATE the window
> with a new image so that only that window stays open?  Do I need something
> else besides PIL to do this or will PIL be adaquate?

you'll need to actually run your own graphics window. most gui libraries 
allow you to display PIL images. i might add it's fairly simple to do 
this with the pygame package (http://www.pygame.org) without PIL.

in fact someone has already done something similar to this. there is a 
simple little utility that streams jpg images from an online webcam.
http://www3.telus.net/futility/futility/software.html#pypanda





From francis.meyvis at sonycom.com  Fri Mar 29 06:06:02 2002
From: francis.meyvis at sonycom.com (Francis Meyvis)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:06:02 GMT
Subject: win32com client and McMillan installer 5.3b1
References: <FVWo8.9$ta.1379@nreader3.kpnqwest.net>
Message-ID: <uUXo8.12$zl6.1504@nreader2.kpnqwest.net>

Hello,

I found a miserable work around.
The pythoncom16.dll is somewhere under the WINNT.
I copied this as pythoncom.dll and the thing now works.

Does someone have a nicer solution?

Thx

--
---
Kind regards, best wishes,
francis meyvis
Francis Meyvis <francis.meyvis at sonycom.com> wrote in message
news:FVWo8.9$ta.1379 at nreader3.kpnqwest.net...
> Hello,
>
> I've a bunch of python scripts that I'd like to convert into and exe.
> This works well with the McMillan Installer except the script that
> uses the win32com client stuff to access worksheets in an excell document.
> From the traceback I see that there's an import error:
> "No module named pythoncom"
>
> I tried it with McMillan installer 5.3b1 on
> NT5 with python 2.2 and Mark Hammond's associated win32 extentions
> NT4 with python 1.6 and Mark Hammond's associated win32 extentions
>
> Both give me the same result.
>
> Can someone point me to what I'm doing wrong?
> I did a
> p22 Makespec.py --name=tst script.py
> p22 Build.py script.py
>
> I have some warnings about a delayed __import__
> According to the doc these have to be taken serious.
> But the doc does not explain in a clear way to me
> what I should do about it.
> Extend the path?, add the modules manually to the spec file?
>
> Thx
> ---
> Kind regards, best wishes,
> francis meyvis
>
>




From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 21 08:15:36 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:15:36 GMT
Subject: Unicode problem
References: <3c98f206.24909027@news.tiscali.no> <OG6m8.26452$n4.5185028@newsc.telia.net> <3c98faad.27124282@news.tiscali.no> <Xns91D85CEBAF111duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <uu1ra12jf.fsf@python.net>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:

> gargravarr at whoever.com wrote in news:3c98faad.27124282 at news.tiscali.no:
> 
> >>if you don't tell Python what 8-bit encoding you want
> >>to use for a Unicode string, Python will assume ASCII.
> > 
> > How do I tell Python what 8-bit encoding I want to use ? Can I tell
> > Python so I don't have to use encode?
> 
> site.py uses sys.setdefaultencoding to set the default encoding but it then 
> does 'del sys.setdefaultencoding' to stop anyone else messing with it.
> 
> Your options (entirely at your own risk):
>   Edit site.py to select a different default encoding.
>   Edit site.py to remove the line that deletes sys.setdefaultencoding
>   OR to recover a reference to setdefaultencoding:
>      import sys; reload(sys)

or: write a sitecustomize.py

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  > so python will fork if activestate starts polluting it?
  I find it more relevant to speculate on whether Python would fork
  if the merpeople start invading our cities riding on the backs of 
  giant king crabs.                 -- Brian Quinlan, comp.lang.python


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 18:35:21 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 18:35:21 -0500
Subject: Cannot find what I'm sure is a simple command... please help.
References: <3ca7978b.251291804@mammoth.usenet-access.com>
Message-ID: <a886fp$sq1$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3ca7978b.251291804 at mammoth.usenet-access.com>,
A. Jones <netzapper at magicstar.net> wrote:
>
>I seem to have either overlooked, or completely missed a function that
>allows one to open a specific line of a file.

There isn't one, unless every line of your file is the same length
(fixed-length records).  You need to read one line at a time until you
get to the correct line.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 05:39:09 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:39:09 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017537656.7159.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3sn6hm376.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> In context, your original int(b) suggestion was in response to my:
> 
>     people have a legitimate need to make an arbitrary true/false
>     expression produce 0 and 1 too, if only to preserve 0/1-based
>     true/false output.  operator.truth() has always been the best
>     way to do exactly that.  Alternatives like "(boolexpr) + 0" and
>     "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and "(0,1)[boolexpr]" reek in comparison.
> 
[...]
> So you may say that "clearly the assumption there is that b is a bool", but
> it's not at all clear that was a *reasonable* assumption in the context in
> which you first said it:  I've been thru the business twice now of
> explaining why int() isn't suitable for the cases I was talking about.
> int(bool) is not a case I was talking about.

Your list of alternatives that reek in comparison was
puzzling. int(bool(obj)) doesn't reek to me: it is obvious what it
does, it does that efficiently, and it requires less typing than
operator.truth(obj).

In that context, I took Guido's response as "why are you bringing up
this silly list of alternatives, yet ignoring the obvious alternative:
int is the right way to get an int from a bool": int(bool(obj)).

Regards,
Martin


From bernie at 3captus.com  Fri Mar 22 19:17:22 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:17:22 GMT
Subject: sgmlParser infinite loop?  How to empty and re-user parser object?
References: <mailman.1016770930.27425.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9BC9E5.89AE2D1F@3captus.com>


Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> Anyone know of circumstances under which sgmlParser will hang, presumably in
> an infinite (well, exceeding my patience, anyway) loop?  I don't seem to be
> able to reliably reproduce this, but occasionally during processing of a
> large number of pages, I seem to get stuck in it.  I'm doing very simple
> parsing, basically just extracting the contents of tables.  I'll re-try the
> same set of documents and it'll hang in a different spot.  If it weren't so
> unpredictable and infrequent, I'd dig into it with the debugger...
>

My record is 1300 web pages and I did not get the problem you've
mentioned.

> Still fairly new to Python... I'm wondering if I should be re-using a parser
> object for each document I'm processing in a loop -- and wondering if the
> fact that I'm not is causing these freezes.  But if I call it without
> re-instantiating it, I get the same text parsed again... and I can't see how
> to tell it to not do that.   Calling reset doesn't seem to do the trick,
> even though I seem to have the appropriate reset method that calls the
> parent reset.
> 

I am not reusing the parser object in my script either (but you can). 
You should consider post the program fragment you used.

> Thanks for tips.
> 
> Nick
> --
> narnett at mccmedia.com
> (408) 904-7198


Bernie

-- 
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein


From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 10 03:45:09 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 00:45:09 -0800
Subject: scripting Outlook express with Python
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06@posting.google.com>

Does anyone have any experience, code, etc...? I guess my first
question should be: is it possible?

regards,

Sandy


From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Wed Mar 13 19:38:20 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:38:20 -0800
Subject: Zope
In-Reply-To: <3C8FED4D.A8C0470@3captus.com>
References: <3C8FED4D.A8C0470@3captus.com>
Message-ID: <200203140037.g2E0bbq00444@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

On March 13, 2002 04:20 pm, Bernard Yue wrote:
> Are there anybody using Zope 2.4.3 with Python 2.2 in production
> environment?  Problems?

Lots of people are reporting segfault / crashes with Python 2.2 / 2.1.2 at 
the moment. Is this your problem? 

My other problems Im keeping personal ;)
-- 
  Andy McKay



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Tue Mar 26 15:31:54 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 20:31:54 GMT
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nqhs$n13nl$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa1mlo.anq.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list at python.org>, 
	David Ascher wrote:
> PPM bdist target works which we're looking at replacing soon.  PPM3 (for
> Perl only so far) is a major rewrite of PPM which added a bunch of cool
> features.  For info on that, see: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/PPM.

Is the PPD format changing in PPM3 at all?  

--amk



From ralph at penguin.com  Tue Mar 19 08:12:58 2002
From: ralph at penguin.com (Ralph)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:12:58 GMT
Subject: socket.gethostbyname() AttributeError
Message-ID: <uPGl8.1121$MC5.110514@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Pythoners:

I assumed that for scoket.gethostbyname(host), I was to pass a host of the 
type "theodore.chipmunks.com" and that I would get back an IP address as a 
doted quad.  Obviously I am wrong about the form of the arguement I am to 
pass to the function, because I am getting an AttributeError message.

Can anyone offer some insight?

Thanks

Raplh


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 29 00:07:41 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 00:07:41 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <mailman.1017275813.1746.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a80sqt$77d$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017275813.1746.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>I wrote that I should look at replacing code like this
>
>    self.cache_lock.acquire()
>    try:
>        fiddle_some_cache...
>    finally:
>        self.cache_lock.release()
>
>with code like this
>
>    some_cache = self.some_cache_queue.get()
>    fiddle_some_cache...
>    self.some_cache_queue.put(some_cache)
>
>I eventually realized I can avoid the try/finally however.  If something
>happens within fiddle_some_cache... in the second code example I'd wind up
>with an empty queue.  So, if I needed try/finally in the acquire/release
>case, I will need it in the get/put case.  Silly me...

However, if you construct your dataflow such that an empty queue isn't a
problem, you don't need to use try/finally in your second example.  If
you're *just* using a queue to avoid an RLock() on a shared structure, go
ahead and use the RLock(); my point about using Queue.Queue is that too
many people try to pass data around using primitive/poor constructs.

Another point is that if your program would be broken (i.e. "should
crash") if fiddle_some_cache fails, you probably shouldn't bother with
the try/finally.  Go ahead and force a core dump.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 18 19:14:36 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:14:36 -0600
Subject: Dictionary as non-iterable object?
In-Reply-To: <265fffe3.0203181601.21c10ba@posting.google.com>
References: <265fffe3.0203181601.21c10ba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15510.33516.309182.177054@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Rob> The deal is this: using the IDLE interpreter (directly from
    Rob> www.python.org), I can do the following:

    >>>> D = {(4, 6): 13, (4, 3): 12, (5, 2): 11, (2, 5): 8, (1, 2): 9}
    >>>> for x,y in D:
    Rob>        print D[(x,y)]

    Rob> 13
    Rob> 12
    Rob> 11
    Rob> 8
    Rob> 9
    Rob> 10
    >>>> 

    Rob> Fine, right?  Unfortunately, ActiveState's latest version does not
    Rob> allow me to do this, saying that I can't iterate over a dictionary's
    Rob> keys. 

The construct

    for k in dict:
        ...

is new with Python 2.2.  I don't think ActiveState has yet released a stable
version of ActiveState Python that is based on 2.2.  In the meantime, if you
are committed to ActiveState's product, you'll have to use

    for k in dict.keys():
        ...

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 12:08:15 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:08:15 -0600
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <15494.19711.723922.527327@beluga.mojam.com>

    David>   for_test: target_list "in" expression_list |
    David>             or_expr less_comp or_expr less_comp or_expr |
    David>             or_expr greater_comp or_expr greater_comp or_expr

Why is an or_expr non-terminal between the two comparisons?  Shouldn't it be
a target_list?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From gvdbogae at vub.ac.be  Mon Mar  4 17:25:20 2002
From: gvdbogae at vub.ac.be (Geert-Jan Van den Bogaerde)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 23:25:20 +0100
Subject: Stedents Question
In-Reply-To: <3C83EA76.BEA9C041@ccvcorp.com>
References: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
	<mailman.1015027983.17189.python-list@python.org> 
	<3C83EA76.BEA9C041@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1015280720.1373.2.camel@gandalf>

On Mon, 2002-03-04 at 22:43, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> 
> Geert-Jan Van den Bogaerde wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 00:45, Tony K wrote:
> > > The question below is a tutorial question that stumps me.  Any suggestions
> > > would be appreciated.
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as parameter
> > > and returns all substrings thereof which match the regexp pattern ab+c. You
> > > are NOT allowed to use the re module.
> > >
> >
> > Haven't used regexps in a while, but I believe that just means:
> >
> > def findABBC(str):
> >     return str == "a" + "b" * len(str[1:-1]) + "c"
> 
> Except that the spec was to return all matching substrings.  You're simply
> testing to see if the entire string matches that pattern, and returning a boolean
> true/false.  (This could theoretically be used as a helper function in a
> solution, though I suspect that there's a better way to go about it.)

You are of course quite right. I misread the original question.

Geert-Jan

> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 





From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 22 09:19:58 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:19:58 -0800
Subject: __* name mangling documentation
References: <mailman.1016800354.9140.python-list@python.org> <a7fcb1$1m9h$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <a7feu3$kn6e8$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Eric Brunel" <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> wrote in message
news:a7fcb1$1m9h$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> Michel Pelletier wrote:
> > http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/id-classes.html
> >
> > sort of left me hanging on why __ name mangling exists and why it
would be
> > used.

I think the question may want to be 'why does it still exist?'  Possibly
the answer is backwards compatibility.

>
> Simple: private attributes and methods:
>


>>> class C:
...     def __init__(self, val):
...             self.__priv = val
...
>>> c = C(2)
>>> c._C__priv    # they're not hidden...(if you know the rule)
2


<snip>
> I can't figure out what could be "tricky" about private attributes or
> methods: they can only be accessed from inside the class's instances,
and
> that's all there is about them... Can you provide an example of what
you
> mean by "tricky"?
>

More specifically, they're known as class-private variables and are
(normally) accessible only to the class's instance when accessed from
within the defining class :
>>> class D(C):
...     def test(self):
...             print 'my private val is ',self.__priv
...
>>> d = D(3)
>>> d.test()
my private val is
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in test
AttributeError: D instance has no attribute '_D__priv'
>>>

 http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/886237 discusses other
problems with mangling.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar  3 18:41:05 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:41:05 +1300
Subject: dirwalk.py generator version of os.path.walk
References: <mailman.1014959642.30993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C82B491.D74EA9AD@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> If I were Jim, I'd continue leaving recursion out of this specific
> application.  An explicit "todo list" trivially supports either
> breadth-first or depth-first traversal (a choice Jim explicitly mentioned as
> something he wants to control).

That's fine. I was just trying to make sure that Jim
didn't reject recursion for the wrong reasons. His
comment about lack of tail-recursion supported
suggested a possibly hazy understanding of the
issues, so I tried to indulge in a little fog-dispersal.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 30 15:54:10 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 15:54:10 -0500
Subject: Stopping a thread from an imported file
References: <4378fa6f.0203290918.21be5409@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a858li$gb$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <4378fa6f.0203290918.21be5409 at posting.google.com>,
Marc <mnations at airmail.net> wrote:
>
>I am writing an application that has a front end Tkinter GUI and a
>back end process. The back end process is being imported into the GUI,
>which acts as the main thread in the program. When the 'GO' button is
>clicked, the GUI starts a thread which calls a function that sends
>control to the back end.
>
>The problem is that when this function has ended, the thread does not
>die. So when the button is clicked to start the application again, it
>won't start because it thinks the thread is still active.

I don't have the time to track down your problem, but if you go to my
web site, you can see an example of a working program that may help you.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 15:05:35 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:05:35 +0000
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaac6kf.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 30 Mar 2002 01:36:43 -0800, Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:
>>     Dear reviewers:
>> 
>>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>>     following three issues:
>> 
>>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.
>
>I don't see much need for it.

Nor do I. Python works OK as it is, asnd this proposal adds nothing 
new semantically (because bool must act the similarly to int, for 
compatibility). The only advantage I see is that code is slightly 
more self-documenting, e.g.:

      return True

instead of:
 
      return 1

> There's no need to turn Python into Java.

Indeed. Python, as it stands, is a much clearer and nicer-to-code-in 
langauge than Java, C, C++, etc.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From xx758 at cam.ac.uk  Wed Mar 27 13:16:57 2002
From: xx758 at cam.ac.uk (Xiao-Qin Xia)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:16:57 +0000
Subject: velocity of python,jython,java,jit
Message-ID: <a7t253$r0v$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Hi,

If a python program can be translated into java bytecode by jython, 
anybody compared the velocities when run with python, jython, java, JIT (a 
just-in-time compiler, JIT compiles the Java bytecode into native machine 
code on-the-fly)?

Cheers,
Xiao-Qin



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 13:27:26 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:27:26 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
In-Reply-To: <a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>
	<a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <20020326102726.1c0524ff.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 26 Mar 2002 10:49:46 GMT
Uwe Schmitt wrote:

> Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> | Are you sure that you want to use ShowModal()??  How are you setting up
your
> | window?
> 
> | This function looks okay to me, as far as it goes, but it's hard to say
what
> | might be going on if we don't know where window is coming from.  I
presume that
> | it's a wxDialog of some sort?  If so, why aren't you subclassing
wxDialog and
> | putting this code in your __init__(), then calling ShowModal() from the
function
> | that creates the dialog?
> 
> I got the answer in the wxwindows-group: there is just
> a window.Layout() call missing. Thats it and everything is fine..

That may be the case, but Jeff brought up some good points.  It looks odd
to create a window in this fashion (it looks procedural rather than OO).  A
more typical approach would be something like:

class testtt(wxDialog):
    def __init__(self, parent, id):
        wxDialog.__init__(self, parent, id, "")
        basicSizer = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)

        gridSizer= wxFlexGridSizer(cols=2)

        t=wxStaticText(self, -1, "Eingabe:")
        tt=wxTextCtrl(self, -1, "", size=wxSize(100,-1))
        gridSizer.AddMany([
            (t, 0, wxALL | wxALIGN_RIGHT),
            (tt, 0, wxALL |wxALIGN_LEFT)
        ])

        gridSizer.SetSizeHints(self)
        gridSizer.Fit(self)
        self.SetSizer(gridSizer)
        self.SetAutoLayout(true)
        self.Layout()


And then elsewhere:

dlg = testtt(None, -1)
dlg.ShowModal()

Also, I notice that your calls to gridSizer.Add are incorrect.  The second
argument is supposed to be a boolean flag indicating whether the widget
should be expanded in the sizer's primary direction (in the case of a
wxFlexGridSizer, I'm not sure what that means, but you still need the
argument, at least as a placeholder).  The wxALL and wxALIGN_* flags should
be the third argument.  


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 14 03:35:27 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:35:27 -0800
Subject: Python Version Strategy?
In-Reply-To: <xIYj8.16613$_L.7649@news1.bloor.is>; from bosahv@netscapenospam.net on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 07:56:13AM +0000
References: <xIYj8.16613$_L.7649@news1.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <20020314003527.A9718@ActiveState.com>

[Bo Vandenberg wrote]
> I'm confused by what is going on with the python versions from various
> sources.
> 
> Python.org has a final 2.2 (I use that) but Activestate has a python 2.1 as
> its recommended python and only a 2.2 beta last I looked.

2.2 is the latest stable Python release (modulo your own definition of
stable). It was released 21 Dec 2001.

If your definition of stable is pretty high then you might want to consider
using Python 2.1.2 (i.e. Python 2.1 with two addition bugfix releases).

ActivePython (from ActiveState) does not have a final 2.2 build just because
we are behind (discliamer: I work at ActiveState). Expect an ActivePython 2.2
very soon.


> Redhat, and most (all?) of the linux distros seem to be slow to fully
> upgrade and I feel like this is raining in my cornflakes.

Yup. As I understand it the core Python folks don't really have any pull for
what default Python version gets installed for the various Linux distros.


> I'm not even beginning to think of when the next version of python (3?)
> comes out.

The next version of Python will almost certainly be 2.3. The release schedule
is here:
    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0283.html

        Tentative future release dates.

        30-Aug-2002: 2.3   (final release)
        26-Aug-2002: 2.3c1 (release candidate)
        14-Aug-2002: 2.3b2
        17-Jul-2002: 2.3b1
        19-Jun-2002: 2.3a2
        22-May-2002: 2.3a1



> Anyone think they have inside information on all this?

Yup. :)


> What's a forward thinking newbie, with no old code to support to do???

Just get the latest Python 2.2 and start hacking! If you like new things that
come along then upgrade as it comes.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From sasoft at gmx.de  Thu Mar  7 19:28:19 2002
From: sasoft at gmx.de (stefan antoni)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:28:19 -0500
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
Message-ID: <20020308002819.GA1571@blackscarab>

sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know the
name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
problem is also in german.

i want to write this basic code in python:
http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:Uugc3CH9SOQC:home.spektracom.de/ellrich/Ziegen.htm+ziegenproblem+basic+programm&hl=de

i am still going to school, and we talked about this problem in a math
lesson. since i haven't got a basic-interpreter, i'd like to translate
this code into python, but i don't understand the code.

anybody who knows basic and python as well?

-- 
stefan antoni
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From Dave.Haynes at sia-mce.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 04:29:32 2002
From: Dave.Haynes at sia-mce.co.uk (Dave Haynes)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 01:29:32 -0800
Subject: Customisation of comparison operators
References: <mailman.1016833334.25500.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c396ce35.0203230129.7cca47f9@posting.google.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016833334.25500.python-list at python.org>...

> Yup, that's dodgy all right.

 Yes I suppose it is. And since Dodginess is anti-Pythonic, I think
I'll change my approach. Thanks for the information though. I wasn't
aware of _contains_, and directly following your reply, it appears in
documentation.

put-that-time-machine-back-where-it-came-from-ly y'rs  - dave


From clive at capedomain.co.za  Mon Mar 25 02:13:23 2002
From: clive at capedomain.co.za (Clive Crous)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:13:23 +0200
Subject: embedded python ...
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.25.09.13.23.359127.2117@capedomain.co.za>

I'm having a great deal of trouble embedding any pyhton script that
doesan "import math".

the few examples of embedded python I have managed to come across give
the same result if I add an "import math" to one of their scripts.

can anyone give me a clue ?
it must be possible as I can import math in blender scripts ;)

Error :
---------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./blue.py", line 2, in ?
    import math
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/math.so:
undefined symbol: PyExc_OverflowError
---------------------------------------------------------


any help greatly appreciated
thanks

Clive Crous


From walter at livinglogic.de  Thu Mar  7 16:23:32 2002
From: walter at livinglogic.de (Walter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:23:32 +0100
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
References: <6c80b2a1.0203070848.6a25b499@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C87DA54.1060201@livinglogic.de>

Ken Causey wrote:

> I'm working with a piece of software which uses SGMLParser to parse
> HTML content so that a small subset of tags can be handled specially. 
> The result is then passed onto a browser for rendering.  Failure is
> not an option.
 > [...]

You might either try sgmlop, which is part of PyXML 
(http://sf.net/projects/pyxml/) or use Marc-Andr? Lemburgs Python 
version of tidy (http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/mxTidy.html)

Hope that helps!

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald



From iddwb at moroni.pp.asu.edu  Mon Mar  4 19:37:07 2002
From: iddwb at moroni.pp.asu.edu (David Bear)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 17:37:07 -0700
Subject: chopping a string
Message-ID: <m3bse3j1e4.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>

there's gotta be an easier way.  I have a string 
"    something  somethingelse    "

note the leading a trailing whitespace.  I'd like to grab the first
word and strip whitespace.  I came up with

 string.join(string.split(string.strip(str))[:1])

but I'm thinking, there must be a better way?  better means (faster) (smaller)..

-- 
David Bear
College of Public Programs/ASU
480-965-8257
...the way is like water, going where nobody wants it to go


From h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl  Sat Mar  2 12:27:56 2002
From: h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl (husam)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:27:56 +0100
Subject: a simple 'else' decrease speed by 1000 times.
References: <3C80BBAC.2060600@student.kun.nl> <Xns91C59BFDB1196cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3C80E535.7000407@student.kun.nl> <Xns91C5A37D46EAAcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3C810B9C.6050208@student.kun.nl>

hi Chris,
I think that I've found a mistake in the script. The mistake is outside 
the function I posted. I corrected it and now in I'm testing it again. 
The script takes alot of time to excute, so if the test fails again, you 
will see a posting from me within days.



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Mar  7 13:54:44 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:54:44 -0500
Subject: Python and computer graphics
References: <3C8785EA.5010509@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <3C87B774.7010600@wi.mit.edu>

husam wrote:

> hi,
> can anybody points me to usefull resources (books, urls) about using 
> python for computer graphics that help for building skills in this 
> subject from scrash?
> 
> thanks in advance
> 

You might want to check out the vtk toolkit which has a good python 
binding.  There are plenty of books and manuals available

http://public.kitware.com/VTK/buy-books.php

Brian Kelley



From netlangau at yahoo.com.au  Sat Mar 16 15:40:48 2002
From: netlangau at yahoo.com.au (Patrick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:40:48 +1100
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <oa5k8.27154$lM.25760@news2.bloor.is> <a6r6tq$47e$1@usenet.otenet.gr> <fmUpYHBB+jk8EwZf@[127.0.0.1]> <slrna9559u.g52.orangefree89@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <k5Ok8.3405$523.272466@ozemail.com.au>

"orangefree89" <orangefree89 at localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:slrna9559u.g52.orangefree89 at localhost.localdomain...
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:37:53 +0000, Chris <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
> > Thank you.
> > I downloaded number 4.
> > However, it is in a strange form (Tex) for a windows user.
> > Is it any use to me in that form?
> > And can it be obtained in any other form?
> > (It does look good.)
>
> Yassas.  I'm pretty sure it is also available in pdf.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCS.php





From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 13 15:03:15 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:03:15 -0600
Subject: Newbie regex question.
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D6894A@SRM201002>

> 
> >>> import re
> >>> s= 'yadda widget1 widget2 yadda'
> >>> regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
> >>> for match in regex.search(s).groups(): print match
> ... 
> widget1
> widget2
> 
> This works here.  Although I would strongly caution you to do:
> 
> re_match = regex.search(s)
> if re_match != None ......
> 
> just in case the regex fails.
> 

you can get away with only:

	re_match = regex.search(s)
	if re_match:
	    ....

The comparison vs. None is not necessary, if you only need
to know the boolean value of True|False, since None is False
(er, bool(None) == False). You know.

Also, comparing vs. None is better done with "var is None"
rather than "var == None".

Salutations.

-gustavo



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 19:35:32 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:35:32 +0000
Subject: forgetting state
References: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com> <cadr9u8ga972iieh0naiubrde1isultk99@4ax.com> <Ieun8.7808$8r.7426@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <k8gv9u46g68gnihomcfhf0eqiq5co77cvr@4ax.com>

"logistix" <logstx at bellatlantic.net> wrote:

>It's a feature, not a bug ;)
>
>One of the big bullet items for python is that it operates in a dynamic
>environment.  The programmer can modify the environment at runtime.  In a
>dynamic environment, you don't want to trust the system to decide what
>existing objects should be killed (other than gc) or what existing objects
>do or don't need to be fixed.  It's up to the programmer to explicitly do
>this if he/she wants to.  An even more unforgivable sin than not having the
>system "fix" broken objects/dependencies/etc is to allow the system to break
>currently functioning and running objects.  It's very difficult (probably
>impossible) to write a general-purpose, "if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it"
>algorithm.   Given this, it makes sense that the only way to ensure that
>you've returned to the initial state of the environment is to kill it and
>create a new one.
>
>Now I'm not saying you need to agree with this (you obviously don't), but it
>is a genuine philosophical decision on how things should operate, as opposed
>to an oversight or bug needing to be corrected.  There are probably lisp or
>smalltalk programmers at the other end of the spectrum who think that an
>image of the enviroment should be saved automatically when you shut down the
>interpreter.  Then when you open it up again you're NOT in any sort of
>'initial state', but right where you left off, bugs and all.
>
>There are also people who get very upset that 1) there is no mechanism for
>static typing in Python, 2) there are no plans to add it, and 3) (even worst
>of all!) noone cares.  This is another philosophical decision and not an
>oversight.
>
>And, of course, with all philosophical decisions, it's really hard to prove
>who's right and who's wrong. [Except mob rule, and it looks like the mob has
>spoken.]
>

This, somewhat verbosely, completely misses the point.

If you're debugging a program and execution stops at some point, for
any reason, you don't want to have to completely leave your
development environment and restart it just so you can run from the
beginning again.

All the twaddle about dynamic environment and existing objects is
utterly irrelevant. If my program has failed, I don't want them any
more. I want a nice shiney new environment with a fresh set of
objects.

There really should be a "throw it all away and let me start again"
button.

--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 20:58:46 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:58:46 -0600
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
In-Reply-To: <cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882@posting.google.com>
References: <cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15513.15958.313096.169148@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Jill> How can I put a check in my script which will allow me to
    Jill> determine whether I'm running on Windows or Linux at execution
    Jill> time?

Check the value of sys.platform:

    Python 1.5.2 (#1, Nov 27 2000, 02:23:30)  [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
    Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
    >>> import sys
    >>> sys.platform
    'sunos5'

vs.

    Python 2.3a0 (#4, Mar 11 2002, 21:35:57) 
    [GCC 3.0.1] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import sys
    >>> sys.platform
    'linux2'

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Mar 20 00:53:00 2002
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:53:00 +1100
Subject: NameError assigning to class created in a function
Message-ID: <20020320055300.GB24737@ritsuko.xware.cx>

(Tested on Python 2.2)

This fails:
def f(x):
    class Private:
        x = x
    return Private
x(1)

but this works:
def f(x):
    y = x
    class Private:
        x = y
    return Private
x(1)

but this also fails:
def f(x):
    y = x
    class Private:
        y = y
    return Private
x(1)

So, it seems that you can't assign to a variable in a class if it has the
same name as the variable you are assigning from.  Except that it works
outside a function:
x = 1
class C:
    x = x

It's easy enough to workaround, but annoying.  Is this a genuine bug?  If
so, I'll submit it to the SF bug tracker...

-Andrew.

(Please CC: me as I'm not currently subscribed to the list/newsgroup)



From garry at sage.att.com  Mon Mar  4 13:12:54 2002
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:12:54 GMT
Subject: Adding static typing to Python
References: <24c39b2c.0202181531.187fad4c@posting.google.com> <a4s51k$8pd1@news1.gtech.com> <3C71B291.B8574221@ccvcorp.com> <mailman.1014085471.28317.python-list@python.org> <slrna73h0o.18i.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <20020219095832.GE2611@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1014127711.4932.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C83B926.5D76525C@sage.att.com>

Drew Csillag wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:58:33AM +0100, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > Le 19/02/02 ? 03:18, Grant Edwards ?crivit:
> > > In article <mailman.1014085471.28317.python-list at python.org>, Chris Gonnerman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ultimately, adding static typing to Python results in a different
> > > > language; it's not Python anymore.
> > > >
> > > > If you don't like Python because the typing isn't strong, use Ada,
> > > > or C++, or Pascal...
> > >
> > > You might also want to take a look at Modula-3.  Anybody used
> > > to Python will recognize many of the language features.
> >
> > Modula-3 also looks great, as did Sather to mee. But both seem seem to
> > have no compilers that are actively maintained.
> >
> > So I'm still leaning towards Ada 95 and C++ for statically typed
> > languages.
> 
> If you want really statically typed, you probably want to take a look
> at Eiffel.

check out ocaml, too.

-- 
Garry Hodgson                   Let my inspiration flow
Senior Hacker                      in token rhyme suggesting rhythm
Software Innovation Services    that will not forsake me
AT&T Labs                          'til my tale is told and done.
garry at sage.att.com


From daniels at mindspring.com  Thu Mar  7 00:19:48 2002
From: daniels at mindspring.com (Alan Daniels)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 21:19:48 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015421793.13369.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d283efe.0203062119.26642fd8@posting.google.com>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at destiny.com> wrote in message
news:<mailman.1015421793.13369.python-list at python.org>...

The objection you quoted was from me originally, so I feel compelled
to respond to it here.

[snippety doo dah, snippety ay...]
> 1) I think that  "for i in range(len(items)):"  is awkward, annoying,
>    and detracts from Python. There should be a better way.

I agree. The nicest counter-proposal I've seen so far is...
    for i in indices(items):
        print i

> *PLEASE* disregard the whole "set theory" argument. I don't think
> that anyone defending PEP 276 is suggesting it as the motivation...

I know, I know... I *was* on a rant, true, but I never used the "set
theory" argument as a straw man. In fact, I was disappointed that this
was the only provided justifcation for seeing an integer as a sequence.
I was hoping for something more substantial, and less tongue-in-cheek.

There's still some MAJOR problems I see with PEP 276:

1) Right now, we have complete orthogonality between "for" and "if".
"for i in seq:" will be called for each value where "if i in seq:" is
true. Adding "for i in 5" destroys this.

2) If you can iterate over integers, a newbie will rightfully wonder
why it is that you cannot iterate over floats. "for i in 5" may be up
in the air, but I doubt that anyone would agree that "for i in 5.0"
could ever be meaningful.

I brought this up before but no one responded to it. If anyone has any
feedback on this I'd appreciate it.

3) PEP 276 still doesn't handle the case where you need "steps", such
as something like:
    for i from 1 to 10 step 2:
        print i
Or something along that line. I'm using Basic-style syntax here as an
example, not a recommendation. :-)

4) I actually *like* that you have to use xrange(len(seq)) to iterate
over the indices of a sequence (strange, I know). In my own code, I
try to refer to indices as little as possible. When I see this...
    for index in xrange(len(seq)):
Instead of this...
    for item in seq:
...I take that as a subtle hint that I need to rethink that part of
the code. But that's mostly a matter of individual style.

Anyway, done ranting (again!). Have a good one.


From python at rcn.com  Tue Mar 26 04:18:56 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 04:18:56 -0500
Subject: Difference between eval and exec ??
References: <uEWn8.8$Vme.170401280@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <a7pef3$s61$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Thomas Weholt" <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote in message
news:uEWn8.8$Vme.170401280 at news.telia.no...
> Eval and exec seem to have the same effect. What's the real difference?

One is for expressions and the other for statements.
Eval computes the value of an expression like, 3*x+1.
Exec is for commands like import this or print that.

Exec itself is a statement that compiles and runs code strings
as if you had typed them in a .py file and ran the file.

Eval is an expression that can be embedded in other
expressions or used on the right hand side of an assignment:

>>> x = eval('3+4') * 10
>>> print x
70


>
> In this case : docs != enlightenment.

Hmm, this raises the question of whether my
   answer == enlightenment
or
   answer is enlightenment
or
   answer in ['obfuscation', 'muddledthought', 'misinformation']


>
> Best regards,
> Thomas Weholt
>
>
>

Raymond Hettinger




From nixdisciplenews at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 20 23:07:36 2002
From: nixdisciplenews at hotmail.com (Felix)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:07:36 -0500
Subject: Python & IRC 
Message-ID: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Greetings everyone,

                                    I'm not sure if you guys here might be
able ot help me but i have been looking up and down for a irc client that
alllows me ot script in python. I found one but it doesn't seem that the
owners of this client are making any type of head way in it's development. I
know Xchat allows to use python as a scripting language but that is with the
linux version not windows.

   If anyone here has experience with irc and creating scripts for a
particular irc client please your help would be greatly appreciated in
pointing me in the right direction.





From amir.hadar at israel.sun.com  Tue Mar 19 11:45:59 2002
From: amir.hadar at israel.sun.com (Amir Hadar)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 08:45:59 -0800
Subject: nested_scopes with execfile
Message-ID: <10ecacee.0203190845.4fa4e35d@posting.google.com>

Hi

I've encountered a problem when executing a file within a function:

#----- Test1.py ------------------
from __future__ import nested_scopes

def f():
    execfile("Test2.py")
    
f()
# EOF Test1.py -------------------

#--------Test2.py ----------------
def f1():
    print "OK it works"
def f2():
    f1()

f2()
#EOF Test2.py --------------------

When executing the Test1.py the following error is displayed:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Test1.py", line 6, in ?
    f()
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Test1.py", line 4, in f
    execfile("Test2.py");
  File "Test2.py", line 8, in ?
    f2()
  File "Test2.py", line 6, in f2
    f1()
NameError: global name 'f1' is not defined


The reson that I need this is because I want to make a "Load" funtion
that will execute the given file (e.g. Load("Yada.py")) and then will
run a function in that file (e.g. def Init():).

In the example I gave the second file ("Test2.py") is loaded to the
local environment of the function f() in the first file (Test1.py).
Therefore the functions f1 and f2 are in that env. Now, When f2 calls
f1 it should resolve its variables in the enclosing environment which
is the env of f (Test1.py) but it doen't.

Help Me.
         Amir.


From timr at probo.com  Wed Mar  6 02:33:13 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:33:13 -0800
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com>

sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett) wrote:

>I can get file attributes using os.path.getsize and os.path.getmtime
>etc, but I am not sure how to convert them into something more
>understandable
>
>e.g.
>File Size to display in bytes (if < 3kb), kilobytes (if < 2MB) and
>megabytes (> 2MB). How would you do that (the value I get is 12345L -
>what is the L?)

Do it the hard way:

  def ShowSize(raw):
    if raw < 3000:
      return "%d" % raw
    elif raw < 2000000:
      return "%dk" % (raw / 1000)
    elif raw < 2000000000L:
      return "%dM" % (raw / 1000000)
    else:
      return "%dG" % (raw / 1000000000L)

Actually, I usually use a few more cases so that I always get two
significant digits:  1.2k, 23k, 840k, 2.4M, etc.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From mt_horeb at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 15:13:24 2002
From: mt_horeb at yahoo.com (Sloth)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 12:13:24 -0800
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com> <b03e80d.0203290635.59a7a47d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <67abb823.0203291213.3870b623@posting.google.com>

Again, thanks for all of the thoughtful replies.  I've tried each of
them, and I still get the same result:
1) The server starts and will serve HTTP.
2) Upon submitting a GET request, the Windows ME OS "beeps" once
3) The page hangs without returning the result.
4) The WinME machine needs to be powered down completely, or it will
hang indefinitely.

Strange result, I'm sure you'll all agree...

My guess is that this has more to do with WinME than anything else. 
Apache serves CGI just fine.  Tomcat will also serve Servlets without
complaining.

Any experience in the group with WinME or a similar issue with Win 9x?

Thanks again!

Jeremy.

sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) wrote in message news:<b03e80d.0203290635.59a7a47d at posting.google.com>...
> Jeremy wrote:
>     
> > I want to be able to do - have Python start a CGI server, serve a
> > page, get form data, get data from a database, and display dynamic
> > content.  I don't need anything industrial strength, just something
> > that can handle a single user.
> 
> 
> OK. This one has bugged me before even though it's actually quite simple:
> 
>     <tested on win2k py2.2>
> 
> [1] create the script that will instanciate CGIHTTPServer (server.py)
>     # this is my favorite part (-:
>     from CGIHTTPServer import test as serve
>     if __name__=='__main__': serve()
> 
> [2] create an html file which is going to call your python cgi script (test.html)
>     <html>
>     <head>
>         <title>CGI Test</title>
>     </head>
>     <body>
>         <form name="myform" action="cgi-bin/testcgi.py" method="GET">
>             <input type='text' name='query' size="40">
>             <input type="submit" value=' search '>
>         </form>
>     </body>
>     </html>
> 
> 
> [3] create a folder in the same directory as the two files above (cgi-bin)
> 
> [4] create the script that will be called by your html file (testcgi.py)
>     #!python
>     
>     import cgi   
>     print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
>     form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>     for name in form.keys():
>         print "Input: " + name + " --> " + form[name].value + "\n"
>     print "Finished!"
> 
> [5] point your browser to http://localhost:8000/test.html
>     
>     and enjoy.
> 
> ciao
> 
> Sandy


From rinnes at integraonline.com  Sun Mar 17 20:05:07 2002
From: rinnes at integraonline.com (Robert Innes)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 17:05:07 -0800
Subject: Python on an ARM Linux Graphics Client Plus
Message-ID: <55ddffcb.0203171705.3fb1d286@posting.google.com>

Been killing myself trying to build this to no avail. I know it can be
done but I have not been able to get a good version. Could some kind
person help me preserve what little hair I have left and tell me how
they did it or point me to a binary that I can copy to my system?

Thanks in advance

Bob


From store_li at sina.com  Tue Mar 12 10:07:37 2002
From: store_li at sina.com (Ricky)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:07:37 +0800
Subject: Is there any wxPython turtor?
References: <a604fb$a6tuc$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de> <3C865341.8D190235@cablespeed.com> <a66sh5$c2aea$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de> <3C876878.E5E9FC6D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a6l5kp$edqdm$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>

I can't ping it.
"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C876878.E5E9FC6D at engcorp.com...
> Ricky wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, I find a lot of resources.
> >
> > But wxpython.org is still not available for me.
>
> It's very likely it's your problem, not the site's.  I can
> see it fine, and could before as well.  Try doing a
> "ping wxpython.org" and if that works, it's your browser
> or firewall settings that are bad.
>
> -Peter




From stevewilliams at wwc.com  Sat Mar 16 06:32:02 2002
From: stevewilliams at wwc.com (Steve Williams)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:32:02 GMT
Subject: Python-DB2 module and DB2 Connect
References: <3C90A125.4020208@stroeder.com> <3C90BF28.8080301@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <3C932F02.259AD2A1@wwc.com>

=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= wrote:

> Michael Str?der wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here which had success with using DB2-Python-0.991 (see
> > ftp://people.linuxkorea.co.kr/pub/DB2/) build against DB2 Connect?
>
> Seems to work. (DB2 Connect under Linux against DB2 OS/390 6.x)
>
> Ciao, Michael.

With DB2 UDB EE 7.1 on AIX 4.3.3.1, Python 1.5.2 and DB2.py 0.991

    create table X(Y decimal(5,2), Z integer)

    cursor.execute("insert into X(Y,Z) values ?, ?",('123.45','10'))

fails with SQL0408N, SQLSTATE=42821, type mismatch.

However,

    cursor.execute("insert into X(Y,X) values cast(? as
decimal(5,2)),cast(? as integer)",('123.45','10'))

succeeds.

The failing insert succeeds on Windows 2000 with mxODBC and ODBC
connected to the same database.  The Windows CLI/ODBC settings don't
seem to show any particular magic.

Steve Williams



From chris_mk at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 18:58:56 2002
From: chris_mk at hotmail.com (Christopher)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 15:58:56 -0800
Subject: Image in a module question
References: <cc14131d.0203272259.3d724dc0@posting.google.com> <3CA2E042.2080307@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <cc14131d.0203281558.2cf0f779@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the feedback, I looked at the code and it gave me some
great ideas.  Although, a little too late, lol (I actually may end up
using it).  I ended up 're-inventing the wheel' although, in my case,
it was kind of fun (though, I still need help).
I couldn't figure out the image2py module that came with PIL (I kept
getting errors when I tried to import the resulting file).  So I wrote
my own.  It ends up doing what I wanted but at a price, the resulting
module is much larger than the original picture (this has to do with
the fact that I was getting errors when I tried to use the data in
strings, so I made a list instead.  Any way, I'll post my code at the
end of this post (please be gentle, I am still struggling through the
learning phase of this whole programming thing ;-) ).

Pete Shinners <shredwheat at attbi.com> wrote in message news:<3CA2E042.2080307 at attbi.com>...
> i've got a working tool that does this. although it uses pygame to load 
> and display the image (could probably be switched to PIL without too 
> much effort)
> 
> http://www.pygame.org/pcr/submissions/01142002b.html



"""
CK_Image2Py


To save an image in a module:
Make_Module()

To open an image in a module:
import ImageTk
from Tkinter import *
myImage = CK_Image2Py.Open_Module() # Enter the module
root = Tk() # create a Tk() object
myNew = ImageTk.PhotoImage(myImage) # Convert the image into Tk
Label(root, image = myNew).pack()  # Include the image in an object
root.mainloop()  # Run the Tk object

"""


import sys
import SysSetUp
import zlib
import tkFileDialog
import Tkinter
import Image
import StringIO
import ImageTk
from Tkinter import *

    






def Find_Image():
    myPicFile = tkFileDialog.askopenfilename()
    return myPicFile

def Compress_Image(Img_File_Name):
    myString = file(Img_File_Name, 'rb').read()
    myCompString = zlib.compress(myString)
    return myCompString

def SaveString(Compressed_String):
    myModule = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename()
    myList = []
    for x in Compressed_String:
        append_this = r"""%s""" % x
        myList.append(append_this)
    myString = 'IMAGE_List = %s' % myList
    file(myModule, 'wb').write(myString)

def Decode_Module(module_list):
    module_string = ''
    for x in module_list:
        module_string += x
    myString = zlib.decompress(module_string)
    return myString

def Make_Image(Image_String):
    myImage = Image.open(StringIO.StringIO(Image_String))
    return myImage
    


def Make_Module():
    myImageFile = Find_Image()
    myCompressedImage = Compress_Image(myImageFile)
    SaveString(myCompressedImage)
    
def Open_Module():
    myModule = Find_Image()
    myModulePath = myModule[:myModule.rfind(r"""/""")]
    sys.path.append(myModulePath)
    myModuleName = myModule[(myModule.rfind(r"""/""")+1):][:-3]
    exec("from %s import IMAGE_List" % myModuleName)
    myImageString = Decode_Module(IMAGE_List)
    The_Image = Make_Image(myImageString)
    return The_Image

def Open_Specific_Module(Module_Name):
    myModuleName = Module_Name[:-3]
    exec("from %s import IMAGE_List" % myModuleName)
    myImageString = Decode_Module(IMAGE_List)
    The_Image = Make_Image(myImageString)
    return The_Image


if __name__ == "__main__":
    import Image
    if len(sys.argv) == 1:
        myImage = Open_Module() # Enter the module
        mainloop()
    else:
        Open_Specific_Module(sys.argv[1])
    root = Tk() # create a Tk() object
    myNew = ImageTk.PhotoImage(myImage) # Convert the image into Tk
    widget = Label(root, image = myNew)
    widget.pack()  # Include the image in an object
    root.mainloop()  # Run the Tk object


From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sat Mar  9 19:16:37 2002
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:37 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news>
Message-ID: <3C8AA5E4.982FC689@mega-nerd.com>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
> 
> I understand the problem of rounding errors with binary numbers.
> However, the rounding functions of other languages  work around it and
> return a usable result. What have they got that Python hasn't got?

Possibly other scripting languages have a feature which includes the
current printing representation with the floating point object. This
would however surprise me somewhat.

Have you tried that specific example with other languages? I looked
at Perl and it doesn't have a round function. Apparently the preferred
method in Perl is sprintf ("%.2f", 56.78923) which returns a string
instead of a float.

Once a float is represented as a string you get the behviour you are
after.

> ps -- your name is very familiar. i think i've read one of your books.

I only have one, "SAMs Teach yourself C for Linux Programming in 21 days".
I also have a couple of Free Software packages out there.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"If dolphins are so smart, why do they live in igloos?" -Eric Cartman


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Fri Mar 29 02:31:16 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 07:31:16 GMT
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>        <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>        <3C9FAF96.5DE9A0@bgb-consulting.com>  <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa1gb9.87e.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <a81584$2gr2$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <slrnaa1gb9.87e.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no>, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>In article <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list at python.org>, Skip

>Montanaro wrote:

>> Don>   Are there any decent (finished/tested) Jabber libraries for Python?

>>Don't know what its status is, but there is jabberpy:

>> http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/

> It's LGPL, which may make it unsuitable for some projects (like the
> standard Python library). But it seems to support the basic protocol.

 Why would LGPL be allergic to the Python License?


From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 20:10:59 2002
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:10:59 GMT
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
References: <mailman.1015530914.14111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DcUh8.36711$nl1.5581667@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Whether or not you want to be able to check files into the CVS repository,
> if you want to contribute, you should probably subscribe to the python-dev
> mailing list.  You can subscribe here:
> 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> 

Have you changed to acceptance criteria?
Last time I tried to join that list they told me to go away.

Filled my time up with other things since then.
--Darrell




From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 18:22:14 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:22:14 -0800
Subject: Exceptions and modules / namespaces question
In-Reply-To: <1136f745.0203281521.76a1a62c@posting.google.com>
References: <1136f745.0203281521.76a1a62c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020328152214.5bba0cbb.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 28 Mar 2002 15:21:24 -0800
Preston Landers wrote:

> The problem, in a nutshell, is that I can't seem to catch an exception
> in the same module it was defined in if the function that raised the
> exception is in a different module, because of naming issues.
> 
> -------module2.py:
> 
> import module1
> 
> def raise_foo_exception():
>    raise module1.FooException("HELLO")
> 
> -------module1.py:
> 
> import exceptions, sys
> 
> class FooException(exceptions.Exception):
>    pass
> 
> def main():
> 
>    try:
>        import module2
>        module2.raise_foo_exception()
>    except FooException, e:
>        print "Got it!"
>    except:
>        xi = sys.exc_info()
>        print "Didn't get it.  Got this instead:", xi[0], xi[1]
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    main()
> 
> ---------result:
> 
> Didn't get it.  Got this instead: module1.FooException HELLO
> 
> 
> 
> The question is, how do I explicitly catch FooException in main()
> without doing a catch-all except: and then examining the type of my
> exception, and making a decision based on that.  It's kinda clunky.

   try:
       import module2
       module2.raise_foo_exception()
   except module2.FooException, e:
       print "Got it!"
   except:
       xi = sys.exc_info()
       print "Didn't get it.  Got this instead:", xi[0], xi[1]

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From john at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 12:07:04 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:07:04 GMT
Subject: newbie question on lists, getting an error on basic addition
Message-ID: <uggeauc292padb9gk6ghcmghv82g888i3l@4ax.com>

>>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> counter = 0
>>> answer = 0
>>> alist
[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> counter
0
>>> answer
0
>>> while counter < 6:
... 	answer = answer + alist[counter]
... 	counter = counter + 1
... 	
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 2, in ?
IndexError: list index out of range
>>> answer
10



why am i getting this error when it works???
Rob


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 28 14:25:44 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:25:44 -0800
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
In-Reply-To: <slrnaa1mlo.anq.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>; from akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 08:31:54PM +0000
References: <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nqhs$n13nl$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa1mlo.anq.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <20020328112544.A13176@ActiveState.com>

[A.M. Kuchling wrote]
> In article <mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list at python.org>, 
> 	David Ascher wrote:
> > PPM bdist target works which we're looking at replacing soon.  PPM3 (for
> > Perl only so far) is a major rewrite of PPM which added a bunch of cool
> > features.  For info on that, see: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/PPM.
> 
> Is the PPD format changing in PPM3 at all?  

Yes, a couple of tags were added under the <IMPLEMENTATION> tag to enable a
PPD to decribe (1) what language it is suitable for (in our current usage,
Perl or Python) and (2) what range of versions of that language interpreter
it will work for.

Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From paul at boddie.net  Mon Mar 18 06:17:26 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 03:17:26 -0800
Subject: Relieved but disappointed: The Pariah thread
References: <mailman.1016355447.13525.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203180317.7e8c92d0@posting.google.com>

Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016355447.13525.python-list at python.org>...
>
> [...] I was a bit disappointed that no-one at all commented
> on the pictorial reference which I gave to sum up my view of the
> .NETification of Python:
> http://www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/010250100.html

I think that someone posted a reference to that picture before, hence
the lack of reaction. Amusingly, not only does the picture involve a
python, but it looks like it comes from an actual Monty Python sketch.
;-)

Paul


From jason at jorendorff.com  Tue Mar 12 03:48:33 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:48:33 -0600
Subject: Ho to use a regular expression group reference as hash key
In-Reply-To: <a6jve0$t1h$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMENKDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> >>> import re
> >>> target = 'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'
> >>> person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}
> >>> re.sub( r'b\w+\b', lambda word: person.get(word,word), target )
> 'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'

The fourth line isn't exactly right.  Should be:

>>> re.sub(r'\b\w+\b', lambda word: person.get(word, word.group(0)), target)
'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Sat Mar 30 16:22:13 2002
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:22:13 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F5611@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

Greg Weeks wrote:
> I would, though, be happy to see built-in variables bound to 0 and 1.

I assume you mean that the only change would be to implicitly have
built-ins like:

False = 0
True = 1

There is a trap with this approach in that some people will come to
conceptualize False/True as being instances of a Boolean type, even
though they are not. Consider code like:

if MyCoolFunction(12.3) == True:
	print 'cool'

If MyCoolFunction returns a "true" value which is not 1 (e.g., -1), then
this code will not take the path suggested by the misconception that
True is an instance of a proper type (which would imply robust
implementations of comparison operators).

This trap is common in C/C++ code that #defines true and false. Some
people have to be constantly reminded not to compare to true, and those
reminders all too often come in the form of long debugging sessions.

Jimmy



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Mon Mar 25 02:24:10 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:24:10 -0800
Subject: files and reading from them
References: <auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a7ln6r.3vsgcqf.1@kserver.org>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:30:30 GMT, "Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455 at typhoon.austin.rr.com>:

> 
> What i would like to do is pull a readline or somesuch.. and have it take in
> the whole thing, and then just let me assign that to a empty name, and turn
> it into a new dictionary.. like say
>  file.seek(1)
> //thats how i'd go to the first place in the file correct?
> X=file.readline()
> 
> and now i can say print X['IName'] ... and its turned into a dictionary.. i
> am most likely going about this *all* wrong.

Technically, you can accomplish this by

x = eval(file.readline())

if you know for a fact that your line of text from the file will be a
correctly formatted, string representation of a dictionary, and that you
can depend on that 100%, no ifs, ands or buts.

Whether this is the best way to accomplish what you want is another
question.

Shelve and pickle (as mentioned elsewhere) are some modules that should
help, possibly.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From bernie at 3captus.com  Wed Mar 13 21:04:06 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:04:06 GMT
Subject: Zope
References: <3C8FED4D.A8C0470@3captus.com> <mailman.1016066309.13027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C90058B.8813C41A@3captus.com>


Andy McKay wrote:

> On March 13, 2002 04:20 pm, Bernard Yue wrote:
> > Are there anybody using Zope 2.4.3 with Python 2.2 in production
> > environment?  Problems?
>
> Lots of people are reporting segfault / crashes with Python 2.2 / 2.1.2 at
> the moment. Is this your problem?
>

Yes, indeed.  Just needed some confirmation.

Thanks

Bernie

--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein




From QnickQm at alum.mit.edu  Wed Mar 13 10:22:18 2002
From: QnickQm at alum.mit.edu (Nick Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:22:18 GMT
Subject: structseq and keywords?
References: <slrna8u819.130.quinn@vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu> <ulmcwsr38.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8urp6.kb8.QnickQm@localhost.localdomain>

As the original author of the structseq patch, I should respond.

In article <ulmcwsr38.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson wrote:
> quinn at vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) writes:
 [...]
> In the current implementation, you're not really expected to create
> structseq objects.  Why would you?

I agree with this.  One of the explicit design decisions was that
since it's so easy to create a lookalike class in Python, there's not
a lot of reason to expose structseq as a metatype.

In the case of its uses today (localtime, stat, statvfs), there didn't
seem to be a lot of reason to want to create these objects yourself.

BTW, people should not (IMO) be creating new structseq-based
interfaces at all.  Here's why: The structseq interface is meant to be
used in cases where legacy code expects a tuple, but where an
attribute-based interface would be more sensible.  If you're creating
a new interface, and you want an attribute-based interface, don't use
a structseq in the first place.

>> I've been meaning to give python access to structseqs, since I think
>> it would be useful for python as well as C code.
> 
> Hmm.  I think they're a bit specialized for that.  You could probably
> whip up something nearly equivalent...

 [...nice Python equivalent of structseq elided...]

> Doesn't do everything structseqs do, but that's mostly a matter of
> typing.

Watch out, though: If you're supporting legacy code that expects a
tuple, you'd better support _all_ the tuple operations out there:
somplace, there is going to be an eccentric who's been using slices
and concatenations to manipulate the things.  

(And if you're _not_ supporting legacy code that expects a
tuple... don't use a structseq-ish class at all.)

If-a-camel-is-a-horse-designed-by-committee-then-is-a-llama-
   a-horse-designed-for-backward-compatibility-with-a-sheep?-ly Y'rs,
-- 
 Nick Mathewson    <Q nick Q m at alum dot mit dot edu>
                      Remove Q's to respond.  No spam.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar  7 20:32:06 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:32:06 +1300
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015518100.4552.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C881496.4CB548F4@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> 
> If it can only be used in one context in the
> language I'm left to wonder if it's not just extra "noise" for everyone
> to have to learn...

Just in case anyone's forgotten, it can also
be used in a list comprehension:

  r = [i for 0 <= i < 10]

If efficiency is a concern, the compiler could
recognise this as a special case and substitute an
appropriate range() call. (And too bad about the
difference wrt side effects on i -- I don't
care!)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 20:50:39 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 20:50:39 -0500
Subject: python name spaces
References: <m3n0xfontm.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <a88edf$et7$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <m3n0xfontm.fsf at rmauctor.lsil.com>,
Daniel Ortmann  <dortmann at lsil.com> wrote:
>
>I must admit I am frustrated by Python's seeming lack of powerful name
>space support.  

I'd just like to point out that Python's namespace support is different
from Perl's.  For example, in Python you can do this:

    def foo():
        pass
    
    foo.permissions = 'author'
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From akakakhel at attbi.com  Sat Mar  9 18:53:43 2002
From: akakakhel at attbi.com (Ali K)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:53:43 GMT
Subject: The Text Widget
References: <5Hzg8.72869$vP.290047@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C82E8C4.24531DE7@tds.net> <a5vcb6$2vbb$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bgxi8.8977$702.9652@sccrnsc02>

I want to know how to write inside a text widget from inside my program.
The following code didn't work.

def enterPress:
    comm = input.get()
    history.insert(INSERT, comm)

here input is the entry widget from which i am gathering my data and history
is the text widget i am trying to write to.  This code adds some text into
the textbox, but not on a new line.  How do i get it to do that?

"Eric Brunel" <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> wrote in message
news:a5vcb6$2vbb$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> Edward K. Ream wrote:
> > First, note that if you bind to a key-press (<Key>) event, when the
> > event handler is called the Text widget hasn't been changed yet(!)
> > Other frameworks provide a "text will change" event and a "text did
> > change" event, but AFAIK Tk does not.
>
> Tk does: it's simply that the event "<Key>" is a short-cut for
> "<KeyPress>", called when the key is depressed, so before the insertion
> happened. To do a binding after the text has been inserted, the event is
> "<KeyRelease>".
>
> For Ali's problem, I don't exactly understand what you want to do. When
> reading your mail, it seems to me that a sub-class of Tkinter.Text with a
> redefined "insert" method may do the trick. Or is it more complicated?
>
> HTH
>  - eric -




From siu99aw at rdg.ac.uk  Sun Mar  3 06:24:38 2002
From: siu99aw at rdg.ac.uk (Alex Willmer)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:24:38 +0000
Subject: C/C++ to Python translater
References: <5e8bd451.0203011049.5d12d3a2@posting.google.com> <3C811653.871C5BEF@tds.net> <a5rcr0$6lj$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <3C8207F6.8000008@rdg.ac.uk>

David Abrahams wrote:
> "Edward K. Ream" <edream at tds.net> wrote in message
> news:3C811653.871C5BEF at tds.net...
> 
>>leo.py contains a script called c2py.py that I have used to translate
>>all my C++ code to Python.  It does about 80% of the work and is mostly
>>intended to be run from inside Leo.  IIRC there is another entry in
>>c2py.py script to translate "exterior" files and this can be run from
>>idle, say.  Munging source to Python is actually remarkably easy to do.

<snip>

> 
> Biggest problem I'm having is that I can't find it.
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/leo/leo-1.0.zip doesn't contain a file
> called c2py.py. Did you have something else in mind?
> 

Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-January/079454.html

Regards

Alex




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar  7 21:54:29 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:54:29 +1300
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> The problem is to do it by using an existing source of text, without
> changing the text, and without using an external file to delimit it.

Even something like q'delim' doesn't allow you to
easily use completely arbitrary text, because you 
still have to pick *some* string that doesn't occur 
in the text. Although you don't have to modify the
text, you do have to inspect it in order to choose
a suitable delimiter.

I have another idea that doesn't suffer from that
problem.

  def string my_string:
    This is a free-form string constant. Its value consists
    of all the text at this indentation level, verbatim,
    with the indentation stripped off. It can contain
    ', ", ''', """, \ or any other characters.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 06:08:07 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:08:07 +0000
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926800.10545.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eabGhiAXGej8EwyU@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1015926800.10545.python-list at python.org>, Simon
Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> writes
>> From:        Tim Churches [SMTP:tchur at optushome.com.au]
>> 
>> So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
>> Herald - see
>> http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html
> 
>Not with those of us who use the Win32all package which he has so generously
>donated to the community, no. <wink>
>
>I-know-you-were-joking-but-a-<wink>-wouldn't-have-been-out-of-place-ly y'rs,
>Simon Brunning
>sbrunning at fuckmicrosoft.com
....
all the evidence suggests that python.net (or whatever it will be
called) will not be python as we know it. Apparently .net will not
support multiple inheritance etc etc. There was an interesting recent
article on the subject of what .net/cli is not able to do. Another
example of embrace and strangle. 
-If only Bill Gates had a mustache and lived in Baghdad-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From jason at jorendorff.com  Wed Mar 13 01:13:50 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:13:50 -0600
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
In-Reply-To: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEBJDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEBNDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> Numeric lets you mix arrays and scalars randomly and it happily
> distributes multiplication and so forth.  So the resulting code
> looks a bit more like the original formulas.  Some folks like that.

Keep in mind, though, that the code I wrote creates a huge 2D array
when it is presented with largeish 1D arrays as arguments.

So if s_vector is 10000 elements and r_vector is 10000 elements,
then a 800-MB array is created.  If you've got the RAM, this is
okay; otherwise you're in trouble.

Also, does anyone have weave.blitz?  I'd like to see how it does
compared to the other approaches.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From mac at magusdesigns.com  Wed Mar  6 18:24:15 2002
From: mac at magusdesigns.com (99miles)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:24:15 -0800
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f5adfd88.0203061524.3646e168@posting.google.com>

Hi-
 Well, there are sample scripts that install with Python. They can be
helpful. The documentation is also all available on python.org
good luck-
 Mac

inerte at hotmail.com (Julio Nobrega) wrote in message news:<40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi!
> 
>   I am used to do web scripting using PHP. As a new adventure, I am
> trying to learn Python. I really wished I could write 'desktop' apps
> with Python, but from what I read (and from what I am planning),
> that's a little far away from my current trouser snake knowledge (I
> also heard you all like those kind of quotes ;-)
> 
>   So, I am looking for examples that might help me. Yes, I saw Zope.
> Waaaaay too much. Also read Web Programming Topic Guide on python.org,
> way less practical than I like. Picky, ain't I? :-)
> 
>   I searched for complete (yet simple), or incomplete (yet with
> explanations) apps on cgi-resources, parnassus and hotscripts, but I
> don't have background to decide what's good or bad Python. And surely
> I don't want to start with the wrong foot :-)
> 
>   Well, enough is enough, isn't? Where do I start? It's for a weblog
> (Kuro5hin-like) system.
> 
>   Anyone have a tip for me? Examples? Squisdot is the way to go?
> 
> Btw, sorry for any grammer mistakes. My coconuts are in a tropical
> zone and english is not my primary language. If anyone does want to
> talk in Portuguese, I can :-)
> 
>   Thanks a lot,
> 
> Julio Nobrega.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar  3 17:32:21 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:32:21 GMT
Subject: new images from strings using PIL
References: <a5osud$nj1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <Vvxg8.22784$n4.4309187@newsc.telia.net>

"BL" <metaliu at yahoo.com> wrote:

> pixels = "1 2 3 4 5 6" //test pixels
> im = Image.fromstring("I", (2,1), pixels) //create a 3x2 image from pixels

try this instead:

    >>> pixels = "1 2 3 4 5 6"
    >>> i = Image.new("L", (3, 2))
    >>> i.putdata(map(int, pixels.split()))

    >>> list(i.getdata())
    [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

    >>> i.getextrema()
    (1, 6)

(getdata returns a sequence object of an undefined type. to
see what's in it, convert it to a list or tuple before printing it)

</F>




From spokra at home.com  Sun Mar  3 14:24:26 2002
From: spokra at home.com (Steven Pokrandt)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 11:24:26 -0800
Subject: SocketServer.py
Message-ID: <a263f04a.0203031124.5e6c2fc9@posting.google.com>

When using the StreamRequestHandler the read incoming data.  how can
one tell if the tcp connection has gone away?

I don't see a mothod to check EOF in the socketserver class.


From amuys at shortech.com.au  Wed Mar 13 19:16:45 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:16:45 -0800
Subject: Another socket/thread question
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net> <3C8FA777.8A5B07D1@accessforall.nl>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203131616.488b4ace@posting.google.com>

Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl> wrote in message news:<3C8FA777.8A5B07D1 at accessforall.nl>...
> Ken wrote:
> > 
> > Hey everyone..
> > 
> > I've got a thread that continously listens to a socket, and reports what it
> > receives. Blocking is turned on, and I would like it to stay that way since
> > the only thing the thread has to do, is listen to the socket.
> > 
> > My question is when the socket needs to be closed (program shuts down, or
> > that user is being disconnected by the server) is it possible to interupt a
> > socket.recv ()?
> 
> When you close the socket from another thread or by the server,
> the pending socket.recv() should terminate with some error condition.
> It's best to test both situations, however.
> 

Far cleaner to open a control pipe to the thread and have the thread
wait on both the socket and the pipe.  This applies equally to
multi-process and multi-threaded models.  This has the added advantage
that you can extend the shutdown protocol to do other things such as
request status, stats, or state-changes.

One hassle with this might be x-platform semantics, as I believe
windows is broken in this regard.  Still I would assume windows can
still do pid/interface restricted tcp or preferably unix domain
sockets, which would allow you to emulate the above.

Andrae Muys


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Mar  7 09:41:51 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 15:41:51 +0100
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <mailman.1015462286.2658.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4u1rs30eo.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Anthony Baxter <anthony at ekit-inc.com> writes:

> This has come up many times in the past - what is needed is for someone
> with deep HP/UX knowledge and exposure to a bunch of different HP/UX 
> versions to volunteer to fix it. If HP offered something like Compaq's
> TestDrive machines, or donated some boxes to the sourceforge compile
> farm, someone might be able to look at it. At the moment, there's no-one
> who's stepped forward to fix this.

So I think your suggestion to add a Resolution: HP-UX into the SF bug
tracker is quite attractive :-)

Martin



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Fri Mar 29 21:51:33 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:51:33 GMT
Subject: execfile() - change python version?
Message-ID: <VK9p8.1492$hi7.2657@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi,

i was wondering if there is a way to change which version of python
processing the file when execfile().

i wish to use python2.2 on the main file, and python2.1 on the file passed
into the argument of execfile().

reason being: there is some sort of mis configuration error on the server i
am using python on.

cheers
trung




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 18:58:48 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 23:58:48 GMT
Subject: win32 extension: rare PythonService problem
References: <rrui8.2150$P4.203427@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns91CD6455D4DCCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214> <a6gkop$r0i$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a6grvo$h4o$0@216.39.172.122>

On 10 Mar 2002 21:55:37 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>But I'd check the event logs (run "%SystemRoot%"\system32\eventvwr.exe) first

Oops, misplaced quote, that won't work verbatim. Try

    "%SystemRoot%\system32\eventvwr.exe"

Or (at least on NT4), find it via start>programs>adminstrative tools>Event viewer

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gvdbogae at vub.ac.be  Tue Mar  5 10:15:34 2002
From: gvdbogae at vub.ac.be (Geert-Jan Van Den Bogaerde)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:15:34 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Generators and iterators
In-Reply-To: <df3b00ed.0203050706.4487c1bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.1020305161350.26963A-100000@mach.vub.ac.be>

On 5 Mar 2002, Bertrand Geston wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I just quickly red the page about new features in Python 2.2 and tried - for
> fun - to test it. It must be obvious but I really don't see why, in the
> console transcript below, z.next() send back None and not 1,2 and 3
> whereas it does it correctly 3 times, no more no less.
> 
> TIA.
> 
> B.
> 
> Sorry for the methods and class names. Here is it:
> 
> PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
> Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
> 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
> >>> from __future__ import generators
> >>> def t():
> ...  yield 1
> ...  yield 2
> ...  yield 3
> ...
> >>> tt = t()
> >>> tt
> <generator object at 0x010958F8>
> >>> tt.next()
> 1
> >>> tt.next()
> 2
> >>> tt.next()
> 3
> >>> tt.next()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> StopIteration
> >>> class Z:
> ...  def __init__(self):
> ...   self.ttt=t()
> ...  def __iter__(self):
> ...   return self
> ...  def next(self):
> ...   self.ttt.next()

You probably want

return self.ttt.next()

here instead of just self.ttt.next()

Geert-Jan

> ...
> >>> z=Z()
> >>> for i in z:
> ...  print i
> ...
> None
> None
> None
> >>> z=Z()
> >>> z.next()
> >>> z.next()
> >>> z.next()
> >>> z.next()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<interactive input>", line 7, in next
> StopIteration
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 





From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Fri Mar 29 04:28:34 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:34 +0100
Subject: The Python Way
Message-ID: <sca441e7.002@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

>>> Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> 03/29/02 04:42 AM 
>>Thinking of automatic locking concepts, has there >>been a PEP for
(can't remember if
>> was c.l.py or python-dev), but no PEP.  Actually, >>the discussion
came
>>up with something a bit more general, along the >>lines of pre- and
post-code:

On a side note, what does PEP stand for?, Ive been seeing it all over
the mails but I have no clue what it is.
:)

/Fredrik

    




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Thu Mar 14 16:46:10 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:46:10 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <3C910734.9030109@northwestern.edu>
Message-ID: <CS8k8.13111$pC1.2279472@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Louis Luangkesorn" <lluang at northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:3C910734.9030109 at northwestern.edu...

> I don't recognize bi-serial correlations,

maybe there is a better name? it is used to validate test items. the fmla is
...

x = score on item
y = score on all other items
n = number of people taking the test

n(sigma(xy)) - (sigma(x))(sigma(y))
-----------------------------------
sqrt(
((n)(sigma(xx))-(sigma(x))(sigma(x))((n)(sigma(yy))-(sigma(y))(sigma(y))  )

something like that, there may be a parenthesis or 2 out of place

btw, thanks for all the suggestions.  it still isn't clear what the best
solution is, but i am thinking that dumping data to R or SPSS via COM might
be the least painful.

-d





From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar  6 18:07:22 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 15:07:22 -0800
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
References: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x7kope1n9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell) writes:
> What do you think of this idea? Am I completely off base and missing
> some other obvious solution?

It's a sound idea, but there's already a FastCGI protocol that amounts
to the same thing and is used for the same reasons.  Someone has
almost certainly already implemented FastCGI servers in Python.


From mxp at dynalabs.de  Wed Mar  6 17:15:26 2002
From: mxp at dynalabs.de (Michael Piotrowski)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:15:26 +0100
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
 <x63czd963u.fsf@notus.mii.dynalabs.de>
 <1015438469.628881@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <x6wuwp4a2p.fsf@hyperion.mii.dynalabs.de>

weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:

> Michael Piotrowski (mxp at dynalabs.de) wrote:
> : When the ANSI C compiler is installed, cc always calls this compiler,
> : but without -Aa or -Ae it operates in K&R mode on 10.20.  To ensure
> : that -Ae is always used, you can ... say
> :
> :    CC='cc -Ae' ./configure
>
> With this, "make" does indeed create an executable.  But "make test" fails
> both times on test_threads, dying at the end with:
>
>     test_thread
>     *** Termination signal 14
>
>     Stop.
>
> Oddly enough, signal 14 (ALRM) is ignored the first time "test_thead" is
> listed.

Yes, I'm getting something similar:

...
test_sha
test_signal
test test_signal crashed -- exceptions.RuntimeError: (22, 'Invalid argument')
test_socket
test_socket_ssl
test test_socket_ssl skipped -- Use of the `network' resource not enabled
test_socketserver
test test_socketserver skipped -- Use of the `network' resource not enabled
test_sre
sh: 20651 Alarm call
*** Error exit code 142

However, I'd guess that this problem's neither in test_thread nor in
test_sre but actually in test_signal (manages to send SIGALRM, but
fails to catch it because it crashes), but I'll have to check that.

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at dynalabs.de>


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Mar 27 10:51:23 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:51:23 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:04:50 -0800, Geoff Gerrietts
<geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:

>Quoting Courageous (jkraska at san.rr.com):
>> 
>> >I'd say the skills required to write clear, readable
>> >software and clear, readable novels are not entirely
>> >disjoint!
>> 
>> Oh certainly not, you just haven't backed up to a big
>> enough perspective of the cognitive domain. :)
>
>I think poetry and code are actually very similar. Some day I may
>write a paper on that thesis, but I'm still living the experience
>today....

Poetry and coding are similar in that they are both creative activities
needing inteligence, imagination, etc. But there is also a world of
difference between the two. A simple way to see this is how they relate
to their heritage, their common dead.

Best regards,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From michael at stroeder.com  Wed Mar  6 06:58:55 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:58:55 +0100
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com>

Steven D. Arnold wrote:
> 
>>>>from neo.istring import istring as i
>>>>n = 100
>>>>s = i("Value is $n")
>>>>s
>>>>
> "Value is 100"

Maybe it's me but I can't see the advantage over using

 >>> n = 100
 >>> s = "Value is %s" % (n)
 >>> s
'Value is 100'

How about providing a more complex example illustrating the benefits of istring?

Ciao, Michael.



From sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com  Fri Mar 22 11:19:48 2002
From: sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:19:48 -0000
Subject: how do i get RGB from HEX?
Message-ID: <a7flgu$cpg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi,
    i have been trying to do this for to long now, i know there is an easy
way, please somebody put me out of my misery! i need to get the RGB value of
a HEX number (eg, #DCDCDC). can anyone help?

thanks,

G. Willoughby




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 16:11:11 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:11:11 -0800
Subject: nested_scopes with execfile
References: <10ecacee.0203190845.4fa4e35d@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016565572.12126.python-list@python.org> <10ecacee.0203200516.32cb4d57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A4C6F.5E0EAD19@ccvcorp.com>


Amir Hadar wrote:

> Thanks for repalying.
>
> I suppose you are right but this is not the correct behaviore with
> nested_scopes on. As I anderstend execfile should behave as if I cut
> and past the file to that position my self (as appose to import).

I think (though I'm not in a position to test) that your problem comes from the fact that future directives
only apply to the current file.  When Test2.py is compiled, nested_scopes is not active. You have two options
that I can see, that should fix your problem.

One is to simply require that *all* files import nested_scopes.  Of course, depending on the situation
regarding your control of other developers, this may not be feasible.

The other solution is to use Python 2.2, in which nested scopes are the default.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mxp at dynalabs.de  Fri Mar  8 11:59:35 2002
From: mxp at dynalabs.de (Michael Piotrowski)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:59:35 +0100
Subject: PARTIAL SOLUTION: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20
 does not work
References: <3C8875FE.9030700@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <x67kon572g.fsf@hyperion.mii.dynalabs.de>

pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> writes:

> First of all, thank you guys for your help.
>
> I managed to compile Python 2.2 in HP-UX 10.20 with the following hacks:
>

[...]

> 7)    Python-2.2 source I
>        edited by adding line "int h_errno;" to Modules/socketmodule.c
>        at line 161 just above the
>     '#ifndef RISCOS' block:
>
>     int h_errno;
>
>     #ifndef RISCOS
>     #include <fcntl.h>
>     #else
>     #include <sys/fcntl.h>
>     #define NO_DUP
>     int h_errno; /* not used */
>     #endif
>     #else

You can avoid this by adding -D_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED to the compiler
flags...

> 8)    I configured python with script:
>     #! /usr/bin/sh
>     unset LANG
>     gmake distclean
>     CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-threads=no --without-cxx
>     --prefix=/opt/python
>     gmake

... e.g.: CC='gcc -D_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED' ./configure etc.

[...]

>     And summary looks like:
>
>     1 test failed:     test_fpformat

I get the same results; if I find the time, I'll have a look at it--I
don't think it's a major problem.

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at dynalabs.de>


From No at Spam.Please  Thu Mar  7 11:13:38 2002
From: No at Spam.Please (Weet Vanniks)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:13:38 +0100
Subject: Bug in the standard module random ?
Message-ID: <3C8791B1.6BBC1981@Spam.Please>

Hi,

The  gammavariate function of the standard module is documented as
taking two parameters, the first one alpha is required to be > -1 and
the second beta is required to be >0.
However, examining the implementation, it seems that the requirement for
alpha is to be >0.

In spite of this, I still have a problem since I called the gammavariate
function with a parameter alpha equal to 0.2 and it fails logically on
the following line:
ainv=_sqrt(2.0 * alpha - 1.0)

Apparently, the implementation requires alpha to be > 0.5.
Am i missing something or is it a bug?

Best regards

Weet


## -------------------- gamma distribution --------------------

    def gammavariate(self, alpha, beta):
        # beta times standard gamma
        ainv = _sqrt(2.0 * alpha - 1.0)
        return beta * self.stdgamma(alpha, ainv, alpha - LOG4, alpha +
ainv)





From zoomq at itcase.com  Thu Mar 21 03:02:32 2002
From: zoomq at itcase.com (Zoom Quiet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:02:32 +0800
Subject: how to read full file into buff for re using?
Message-ID: <a7c32k$2l9g$1@news.cz.js.cn>

i'm chinese python fresh men; help please!
how to read full file into buff for re object using?
such as:
re.sub()
??!

--
/======================\
| Time is unimportant;
| only life important!
\======================/




From henrik.motakef at web.de  Fri Mar  1 03:51:25 2002
From: henrik.motakef at web.de (Henrik Motakef)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 09:51:25 +0100
Subject: Python GUI
References: <uZ_e8.24022$dj3.835926@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <86zo1sy8ky.fsf@apo.hmotakef.int>

"Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> writes:

> some type of gui builder or somesuch for python

Just because nobody mentioned it yet: You can use the Qt Builder
(included in the default Qt distribution) with PyQt as well.

hth
Henrik


From cce at clarkevans.com  Sat Mar 23 09:58:18 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:58:18 -0500
Subject: two ideoms at one blow: line-reading and regexp-matching
In-Reply-To: <slrna7a6sv.ekg.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>; from scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 04:12:08PM +0000
References: <mailman.1014248633.16973.python-list@python.org> <7xit8rhebq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrna7a6sv.ekg.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <20020323095818.A245@doublegemini.com>

On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 04:12:08PM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
| Are you sure? writing 'if (a=3) {' must be the most common bug in C
| programs. I wouldn't call it successful. In fact, Python already caught
| three of those for me this week as syntax errors - that would have been bugs
| in C.

I'd note that good "C" style is to always put the constant
as the LVALUE in this way the above looks "funny".  In
other words when checking for equality in C, write "if (3==a) {"
this way if you forget the extra = you don't shoot yourself
in the foot (it is a syntax error).  A good lint program
should be able to flag these cases for you.  After a while
any equality test where the variable is on the left just
"looks funny"... 

Best,

Clark



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar  4 03:53:18 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:53:18 -0500
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
In-Reply-To: <3C81C613.8000409@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEALOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
> If, e.g., I set PYTHONHOME to \Python22, then execute python while *in*
> my \Python21 directory (these both referring to PythonLabs distros),
> then Python 2.1.2 comes up with sys.path pointing entirely at Python 2.2
> directories.  This is insane, but shows that PYTHONHOME works the way
> getpathp.c says it works.

[Mark Hammond]
> insane by design ;)  PYTHONHOME was supposed to be a global override.

What's insane is that *I* would do such a thing, not that PYTHONHOME
believes me.  It's great that PYTHONHOME believes me.

The other form of insanity is that there is no "global override" for *all*
of sys.path.  Indeed, the lack of a global, no-kidding, I-really-mean-it,
don't-you-dare-try-to-outguess-me-at-all override is exactly Chris's
problem.

> Didn't someone promise to document all this once? <wink>

Well, you did, but you were Australian then, and we won't hold you to what
you promised before you became a tad civilized <wink>.

> ...
> Or, use MSVC or some other resource editor to change the single string
> resource in the compiled Pythonxx.DLL (ie, no need to rebuild the DLL).
>   This will cause a different registry key to be used (by the core, and
> also by extensions that are registry aware).

Hmm.  In the absence of a global no-kidding whole-sys.path override, maybe
someone would like to contribute a Python script to fiddle the DLL.  *That*
should end this thread <wink>.

you-can-lead-a-python-to-a-rat-but-you-can't-make-it-eat-ly y'rs  - tim




From johnl at axis.com.au  Wed Mar 20 19:03:51 2002
From: johnl at axis.com.au (John Lehmann)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 16:03:51 -0800
Subject: Slices... what are they good for?
Message-ID: <e69f55af.0203201603.6384b720@posting.google.com>

I had forgotted slices existed, until I was making an object that I
was pretending was a tuple.

I was shocked to find that this didn't work:

>>> l = ['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> l[1:2]
'b'
>>> l[ slice(1,2) ]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: sequence index must be integer

--
| John J. Lehmann, jlehmann(@)cgi-australia.com
+ Chicago Bulls star has filed papers seeking to annul his 9-day-old 
+ marriage to the former Playboy and Baywatch babe, saying he was of 
+ "unsound mind" when the wedding took place.


From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Mar 11 08:10:24 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:10:24 +0000
Subject: Newbie Import two coloums of floating point data into python HOWTO
References: <7eb201fc.0203110422.1e9c7dec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8CACC0.8080102@mxm.dk>

Andybee wrote:

> Can some one tell me how to import two coloumns of data in a ascii
> text file,into two arrays in python? I cant seem to work it out. The
> data is genereated in matlab and I want to import it into python

What is the data format? Presumably it is a text file, but how is the 
data seperated etc. We need to know more.

regards Max M



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 21:56:36 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 02:56:36 GMT
Subject: seek in a file
References: <mailman.1017185572.18490.python-list@python.org> <a7s4q4$no0i9$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a7u0p4$2bhv$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <a7s4q4$no0i9$1 at ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>, Andreas Penzel wrote:

>"Steven Majewski" wrote:

>> Are the files too big to fit in memory ?

>the file is about 1 MB, i have to test out working

	By today's standards 1Mb is tiny.  It should easily fit
	in memory on any reasonably recent (last decade or so)
	computer.

>> What do you want to do with the lines ?
>> ( I hope you weren't planning on trying to modify a line in a file:
>>   because of the variable length on lines, if you don't write
>>   exactly the same number of chars back, you will either overwite
>>   the next line, or leave an extra partial line after your edited
>>   line. Most text editors read the whole file into memory and then
>>   write out a new file after it's modified in memory. )

>In the file are barcodes of products, one per line.
>The program has to look if the scanned code from the barcode-scanner is
>identically with one in the file included. This is important because the
>barcode-scanner sometimes works not correct. All i need is an search-routine
>that compares the scanned code with the codes in the file. If there is an
>code, the programs waits for the next code.

 	So I'd load the file into a dictionary:

	  f=open('.../barcodes.list','r')
	  barcodes = {}
	  for x in f.readlines():
	  	barcodes[x]=None

	And then my validation would look like:

		while 1:
			code=BCodeReader.readline()
			while code not in barcodes:
				tryAgain()
			# use valid code in transactions
			# until operator signals to quit
			# or forever as you like.

	Of course I'm assuming you have some sort of 
	object "BCodeReader" that acts enough like a 
	file that you could support a readline() method on 
	it.  In some cases it could actually be a regular
	file object, created with the Python open() built-in,
	but I don't know about your hardware.  I'm also assuming
	you'd write a "tryAgain" function.

	Of course I recognize that this might be a multi-user
	system (possibly with lots of POS terminals attached,
	and the bar code scanners attached to those).  In that
	case consuming a meg or two of memory for the barcodes
	dictionary *for each process* might get expensive.

	In that case you could create a client/server pair.  
	The server could simply return "true" or "1" any time
	it receives a valid code and "false" or "0" every time
	it gets an invalid one.  It could be written in about
	a dozen lines of Python and it could probably handle
	a few hundred concurrent connections (over UNIX or Internet
	domain sockets).  The client size could be written as
	a small class to include in your application probably 
	also less than a dozen lines of code.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 15:46:20 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:46:20 -0800
Subject: Launching Tkinter or wxWindows frames from interpreter
References: <3C9E638B.1260E9DC@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F8C9C.8838A871@ccvcorp.com>


bptonner at yahoo.com wrote:

> I want to launch frames to plot graphs from the Idle interpreter prompt.

In general, this will not work under IDLE or PythonWin.  The problem is that
having multiple message loops within a single process doesn't work.  The
solution is to run your code in a different process.  You can do this by
either (1) running the script from a shell prompt, and switching back and
forth between that and your IDE, or (2) switching to an IDE that runs code
out-of-process.  I *believe* that IDLE-Fork (on sourceforge) will do this,
and most (if not all) of the commercial Python IDEs do as well.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 20:19:43 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:19:43 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m@4ax.com> <slrna8nf4q.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <mailman.1015801697.3437.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8o1i4.2gm.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1015801697.3437.python-list at python.org>, Geoff Gerrietts wrote:
> Quoting Grant Edwards (grante at visi.com):
>> In article <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m at 4ax.com>, Courageous wrote:
>
>> I would think that for an isolated app, .so's would slow down
>> load times.  With a statically linked program all you do is a
>> single memmap() call (well, ignoring a few details).  With
>> .so's you've actually got to resolve all of the symbols and do
>> the linking step (not required for statically linked images).
>> 
>> Since you've got the same number of bytes to swap in off disk,
>> that should be a wash.
> 
> I can't speak for the windows world, but in the Linux world, .so's end
> up saving some time because the dynamic linker doesn't actually move
> things into the program's address space until needed -- it does this
> on a page-by-page basis.

That is true for all text pages.  It doesn't matter how they
are linked.

> Consequently, less start-time latency at a slight cost when
> you use the feature.

I don't see why.

> My data comes from: http://www.suse.de/~bastian/Export/linking.txt

I just read it, and it does say that .so's are demand-loaded.
But, static images are also demanded-loaded.  It does show that
lazy binding alleviates the start-up penalty I had described.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  This is my WILLIAM
                                  at               BENDIX memorial CORNER
                               visi.com            where I worship William
                                                   Bendix like a GOD!!


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Mar 26 23:23:04 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 23:23:04 -0500
Subject: win32process.CreateProcess inherit handles not working ?
References: <9364c0c7.0203201912.1ba8fde6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u7knyhc5z.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

teyc at cognoware.com (Chui Tey) writes:

> I've been trying to get this going for a while and I'd appreciate it
> if someone can point out what's wrong with the following test? It works
> fine on Win98 but fails on NT and W2K. I am using Python 2.1

I don't know that this is the most elegant solution, but I've used
DuplicateHandle rather than security attributes to create inheritable
handles in the past successfully.  It was a while ago, but I seem to
recall getting into trouble with SAs because they also include the
DACL which defaults to no access unless you explicitly assign it a
NULL DACL, and it's just sort of a pain in the neck in terms of extra
steps just to inherit the darn handle properly.

I don't know that it's what is happening here, but perhaps Win98 is
ignoring the security information whereas NT/W2K aren't.  I tried
modifying your code to use DuplicateHandle and it seems to work fine
on my NT4 SP5 system.

I'm sure there's a way to make it work with a security attribute as
well (and avoid the extra file handle), but this isn't all that bad.

So something like:

	  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
def _CreateProcess(app, args, filein, fileout):

    """Returns the pid.
       app = executable name
       args = list of arguments
       filein = name of file to redirect to stdin
       fileout = name of file to redirect the stdout to
    """
 
    import win32process
    import win32file
    import pywintypes
    import win32event
    import win32api
    import win32con

    u_filein = pywintypes.Unicode(filein)
    u_fileout = pywintypes.Unicode(fileout)

    SI = win32process.GetStartupInfo()
    SI.dwFlags = win32process.STARTF_USESTDHANDLES
    
    hInput = win32file.CreateFile(
        u_filein,                   # filename
        win32file.GENERIC_READ,     # mode
        win32file.FILE_SHARE_READ,  # share
        None,                       # security attributes 
        win32file.OPEN_EXISTING,    # creation disposition
        win32file.FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, # flags
        0                           # hTemplate file
    )
    hOutput = win32file.CreateFile(
        u_fileout,                  # filename
        win32file.GENERIC_WRITE,    # mode
        win32file.FILE_SHARE_WRITE, # share
        None,                       # security attributes 
        win32file.CREATE_ALWAYS,    # creation disposition
        win32file.FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, # flags
        0                           # hTemplate file
    )

    hStdInput = win32api.DuplicateHandle(win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
                                         hInput,
                                         win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
                                         0,1,
                                         win32con.DUPLICATE_SAME_ACCESS)
    hStdOutput = win32api.DuplicateHandle(win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
                                          hOutput,
                                          win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
                                          0,1,
                                          win32con.DUPLICATE_SAME_ACCESS)

    SI.hStdInput = hStdInput
    SI.hStdOutput = hStdOutput
    SI.hStdError  = hStdOutput

    cmdline = app + " " + " ".join(args)
    hProcess, hThread, pid, threadid =  \
        win32process.CreateProcess( 
        app,                    # lpApplicationName
        cmdline,                # command line
        None,                   # Process security attributes
        None,                   # Thread security attributes
        1,                      # Inherit handles
        win32process.DETACHED_PROCESS,  #
        None, 
        None, 
        SI)

    win32event.WaitForSingleObject(hProcess, win32event.INFINITE)

    win32file.CloseHandle(hInput)
    win32file.CloseHandle(hOutput)
    win32file.CloseHandle(hStdInput)
    win32file.CloseHandle(hStdOutput)
    
    return pid
	  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From plopp at dummyaddress.doh  Sun Mar 31 14:44:35 2002
From: plopp at dummyaddress.doh (Mikke M.)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:44:35 +0200
Subject: Possible to save router logs?
References: <bbde2416.0203310724.4150665d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DGJp8.3007$Ow4.4268@news2.bredband.com>

"Paul" <Luap777 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bbde2416.0203310724.4150665d at posting.google.com...
> I have a D-Link 704 cable/DSL router. Unfortunately, it has very
> limited logging capabilities(in that it doesn't save logs, it just
> rights over them when the space fills.) What I would like to do is
> right a program to save the logs to my hard drive every 12 hours or
> so. I normally have to access the web page with the url being the
> local IP of the router, then type in a password to get access to the
> logs. Has anyone attempted something like this? I know this is kinda
> general, but any feedback would be appreciated. It might give me an
> idea of where to begin. Thank you.

Sure.. First of all you have to log on to the router.  My DL-704 shows this
html code:


---(SNIP!)---
<HTML><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1"><SCRIPT LANGUAGE=JavaScript><!--
function GURL(x){var t=new Date(); location=x+'&ZT='+t.getTime();}
function makesure(p,l){if (confirm(p)) GURL(l);}
//--></SCRIPT></HEAD><BODY TEXT=#000000 BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF LINK=#006693
VLINK=#006693 ALINK=#006693>
<!--H3 ALIGN=CENTER>User's Main Menu</H3-->
<CENTER>
<FORM ACTION=/cgi-bin/logi METHOD=POST NAME=LOGIN>
<INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN VALUE="@D" NAME=RC>
<INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN VALUE="root" NAME=ACCT>
<INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN VALUE="458:06:54 (S=00:00:00,P=0)" NAME=PSWD>
<font size="+2">System Password</font>&nbsp;
<INPUT TYPE=PASSWORD NAME=URL SIZE=9 MAXLENGTH=9><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN
VALUE="3A2D.36D6.3A43/3100+ADB0 at Winnie 193s" NAME=KEY><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN
VALUE="2.56 build 20" NAME=htm>
<INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT VALUE="Log in"></FORM>
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE=JavaScript><!--
var t=new Date();
function reload() { GURL("/menu.htm?RC=") }
function refresh() { GURL("/menu.htm?RC=@") }
document.LOGIN.URL.focus();
parent.main.location="/begin.htm?RC=@&ZT="+t.getTime();
//--></SCRIPT>
</CENTER>
</BODY></HTML>
---(SNIP!)---

The tricky part for me was getting the encoded password to submit to the
router, so I rewrote the FORM ACTION command to read:
<FORM ACTION=http://my.router.ip/cgi-bin/logi METHOD=GET NAME=LOGIN>

Then I saved the html to a file and opened it, and logged on to the router
using that file and copied the entire address line from internet explorer
and pasted it into my python script:

---(snip!)---
import urllib2
MR=urllib2.Request("http://my.router.ip/cgi-bin/logi?RC=@D&ACCT=root&PSWD=TH
E ENCODED PASSWORD GOES
HERE..&URL=admin&KEY=3A2D.36D6.3A43%2F3100%2BADB0 at Winnie+193s&htm=2.56+build
+20")

URL=urllib2.urlopen(MR)
---(snip!)---

Now you are logged on to your router and it will gladly show any of its
internal webpages you request from it witin a couple of minutes..

Then go on to get the system log page:
---(snip!)---
MR=urllib2.Request("http://my.router.ip/syslog.htm")
URL=urllib2.urlopen(MR)
LOGPAGE= URL.read()
---(snip!)---

Now you should have the entire system log webpage in LOGPAGE, the rest of
the work is up to you. :-)

/Mikke









From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 09:54:22 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:54:22 +0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com> <gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <a5ntnn$8t3dn$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
 <TsElcJAaB4f8EwQA@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PtFyMdAeY5f8EwjI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <TsElcJAaB4f8EwQA at jessikat.demon.co.uk>, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>In article <a5ntnn$8t3dn$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller
><theller at python.net> writes
>.....
>>> Is there a proper way to get the 8.3 name?
>>
>>>>> import win32api
>>>>> win32api.FindFiles(r"c:\Program Files")
>>[(49, <PyTime:10/5/2000 9:34:56 AM>, <PyTime:3/1/2002 12:42:28 PM>, 
>><PyTime:2/26/2002 3:38:17 PM>, 0, 0, 100, 1244528, '
>>Program Files', 'PROGRA~1')]
>>>>> win32api.FindFiles(r"c:\Program Files")[0][-1]
>>'PROGRA~1'
>>
>>Thomas
>>
>>
>thanks, but it would still be better to get the popen methods to work
>properly wouldn't it?
after investigation it seems that module nt is using 
        cmd.exe /c string

to run programs and I can't find any way to quote things in the string.
A typically rubbish M$-ism.
-- 
Robin Becker


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 10 23:16:02 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: Help newbie w/Numpy Install ??
In-Reply-To: <3C8C1C4F.7770642A@mcn.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEEPODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[jrc]
> I'm brand new to Python - tho experienced somewhat
> with programming, compiling, etc.  I just downloaded
> Python v2.2 but have yet to install.

Install it, and work your way through the included tutorial.  You're in for
a treat!

> I'm going to run it on Windows ME. (I have MSVC 6.0 but not
> installed, hopefully don't need all that.)

Probably not.

> I can't seem to understand, on sourceforge / numpy
> pages, the following two issues:
>
>   a) Exactly which files do I need to download to make
> NumPy work with Python 2.2 - or is that even possible?

This can't be answered until you can ask a better question <wink>.  To get
started, download only Numeric-20.3.win32-py2.2.exe.  That's assuming you
want to use version 20.3 of NumPy (I can't answer that for you), and don't
want any NumPy addons at the start (ditto).

>   b) Will I need my c-compiler to get NumPy to work?

Nope.  Note that you'll usually get better help with NumPy on its mailing
list:

    http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1369




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 27 02:30:49 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:30:49 -0800
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee> <3CA10CA8.DFF48898@gmx.de> <7x663iam5u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <hreo8.273877$uv5.24122776@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3CA17529.4B8502@alcyone.com>

"G. Sumner Hayes" wrote:

> Agreed.  As long as we're stating personal opinions, C is harder than
> Python but easier than Java or C++, both in learning the language and
> writing large, maintainable projects.

You're saying that Java is harder than C?  Why?  Are you taking all the
_concepts_ that have to be mastered in order to use both competently and
judging that object orientation is more complicated in whole than a more
complicated syntax, pointers, etc.?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Mar  2 20:30:12 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 03:30:12 +0200
Subject: PEP 234 little bug?
References: <3c817238@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <3C817FC1.A155DBAB@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3c818ab3@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> wrote:
[...]
> Hm, I don't think so. I think it does not say that the *file*
> object should have a next() method... rather, it says that
> it's its own iterator, and the iterator has the next()
> method. Maybe the wording could have been a bit more careful,
> but essentially it's true what is says. And iterating over
> files has indeed been implemented in 2.2.

Yes, I was aware of that - I just thought the line
"is implemented" would mean the inclusion of the
(proposed) fileobject.next() method [which as a matter
of fact is _not_ implemented], not the iterator
itself.

Thanks for your response.

Later,

Mickey.



From cfelling at iae.nl  Wed Mar 13 17:39:06 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 23:39:06 +0100
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
References: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015972703.8850.python-list@python.org> <Exyj8.11281$f33.2556230824@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <a6okea$4ng$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

googlePoster <scott2237 at yahoo.com> wrote:
...
> try:
>    curr_color = vim.eval("colors_name")
> except NameError:

Ah code, now we know:) It's ofcourse not Python's fault, but incorrect
vim usage:) So I looked it up (don't use vim myself, but instructed my
daughters to:) and vim has this nifty function to check for the
existance of a varibale.

   :echo eval("colors_name")
   :python print eval("colors_name")

returns 0 or 1 depending on the existence of "colors_name", so why not:

   curr_color = ( vim.eval( 'exists("colors_name")' )
                  and vim.eval('colors_name')
                  or None )

-- 
groetjes, carel


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 18:14:16 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:14:16 -0800
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <a7tbd4$qc7$1@web1.cup.hp.com> <owro8.110380$Gf.10489486@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3CA25247.D51E75BF@ccvcorp.com>


Terry Reedy wrote:

> "jimh" <jim at jim.jim> wrote in message
> news:a7tbd4$qc7$1 at web1.cup.hp.com...
> > I am working on python code that consist of quite a few files (about
> 50;
> > each file contains one class).  All errors returned by functions are
> numeric
> > and are defined in the individual files.  There is a
> MessageCatalog.py class
> > which will map these numbers into strings.
>
> I would probably follow the standard Python idiom of using exceptions
> instead of numeric error codes, and look at standard library modules
> for precedents.

I very much agree with Terry.  If you define a series of exceptions in a
separate file, then there's no need for mapping error numbers to strings
-- the strings are part of the exception.  This will simplify your code in
many ways, not the least of which is not having to worry about checking
for a numeric error code at *every* level.  Exceptions are *so* much
cleaner, and make it much easier to deal with an error at the most
appropriate level (instead of manually propagating an error condition
through multiple levels of call stack).

-----  MyErr.py ---------

class FooError(Exception):
    pass
---------------------------

------ MyFoo.py ---------
import MyErr
...
try:
    MyObject.Foo():
except MyErr.FooError:
    CancelFoo()
----------------------------

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mcherm at destiny.com  Thu Mar 14 11:26:02 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:26:02 -0500
Subject: [].keys() and [].items() (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
Message-ID: <3C90CF1A.5010307@destiny.com>

Courageous writes:
> >Question:  Which is better:  items(x) or x.items()?
> 
> Note the question in the PEP, but leave the decision to Guido.
> 
> C//

I disagree. It'e easier for Guido (and everyone else who reads PEPs) if 
the PEPs make a clear and specific proposal instead of listing a whole 
smorgasbord of options. Now if it's a trivial issue, like naming it 
"items" or "indexed", then that's fine. But using items(x) vs x.items() 
is not trivial: there are lots of arguments for or against one that 
don't apply to the other (eg: the need to implement the items() method 
when creating a list-like class).

So to make the PEP process work, the PEP author should try to make these 
decisions, based on input from the community during discussion and on 
the author's own designer intuition. Alternatives that were rejected 
should be noted, but the PEP itself should make a very specific 
proposal. Then the BDFL applies his OWN designer's intuition, combined 
with input from the community.

-- Michael Chermside





From news.Andreas at gmx.net  Sat Mar 23 05:32:13 2002
From: news.Andreas at gmx.net (Andreas)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 02:32:13 -0800
Subject: load html frameset out of Python script
References: <30cf5082.0203221039.791cab07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <30cf5082.0203230232.7a887cf@posting.google.com>

news.Andreas at gmx.net (Andreas) wrote in message news:<30cf5082.0203221039.791cab07 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I am trying to set up a html site with frames. I want to load the
> frameset out of a Python script.
> Frameset definition:
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
>         "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>right frame</title>
> </head>
>   <frameset frameborder="no" rows="20%,20%,8%,52%">
>     <frame src="control.html" name="frame_control" scrolling="no"
> noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>     <frame src="customer.html" name="output_customer" scrolling="no"
> noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>     <frame src="buttons.html" name="component_buttons" scrolling="no"
> noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>     <frame src="empty.html" name="output_component" scrolling="auto"
> marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>   </frameset>
>   <noframes>
>   No frame support of your browser!
>   </noframes>
> <body>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> I load this with the following code:
> 
> File = "%s" % ('frameset.html')
> PageHandle = open(File, "r")
> PageInput = PageHandle.read()
> PageHandle.close()
> Display(PageInput)
> 
> ...the html file will be found but I can see just an empty page.
> 
> What can I do to realize this problem?
> Is it possible to write in a specific frame from my scripts?

Sorry for this annoying posting! This problem drives me crazy for
hours. However, I found the problem behind the code of my Display()
function after a long break and a big coffee.

But I still don't know how to put html code into a specific frame out
of my Python scripts.
Any suggestions?

Regards, Andreas


From cruciatuz at cruciatuz.de  Mon Mar  4 19:53:58 2002
From: cruciatuz at cruciatuz.de (cruciatuz)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:53:58 -0500
Subject: text manipulation examples
In-Reply-To: <61ff32e3.0203040951.2408cef4@posting.google.com>
References: <61ff32e3.0203040951.2408cef4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020305005358.GB2143@blackscarab>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 09:51:39AM -0800, ron nixon wrote:

> ... examples of string manipulation of text files, which are often
> lacking in the books I've gotten so far(if I'm wrong, please point me
> to the book.) Can anyone point me to examples or have examples I could
> take a look at.

perhaps:
http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/regex/regex.html

can help you 

-- 
Stefan Antoni
----------------------------
Mon M?r  4 19:52:23 EST 2002

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From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 18:30:48 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 00:30:48 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions
References: <a7tgrl$ipu$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <a7tiq8$qip$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3lmcd7fmf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:

> Adding the well-known iso-8859-1 (iso-latin-1) to the list
> results in an exception: Latin-1 encoding error: ordinal not in range(256)
> as expected, because I found out that the Euro symbol is not
> in latin-1 but *is* in latin-9 (iso-8859-15).

Indeed, this was one of the driving forces for the introduction of
latin-9. IMO, Latin-9 is a bad choice as a data format - you have to
give up other characters in return, and all the advantages of Latin-1
(it being the default encoding in many places) are lost. So you may as
well use UTF-8 instead, and gain access to all characters supported in
Unicode.

Regards,
Martin



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Fri Mar 22 10:29:50 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:29:50 +0100
Subject: CGI, etc.
References: <mailman.1016770055.25259.python-list@python.org> <a7dgl7.3vs45c5.1@kserver.org> <XnCm8.734$d7.213146@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrna9m09g.1ic.gerhard@koesesoy.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <a7fiko$l2o7i$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:slrna9m09g.1ic.gerhard at koesesoy.opus-gmbh.net...
> In article <XnCm8.734$d7.213146 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, dsavitsk
wrote:
> > "Sheila King" <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
> >> http://www.python.org/topics/web/
> >
> > btw, the instructions linked to here for doing CGI on windows under iis
are
> > out of date (only covering 9*/NT).  For win2k (server and professional)
see
> > http://www.e-coli.net/mag.shtml (or http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis.html and
> > http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis_server.html specifically)
>
> I'd suggest to inform webmaster at python.org.
>
> Gerhard

I second this suggestion because, as a newbie not involved in the Python
community (btw really really cool), my first thought after the mail of
"dsavitsk" was "Ah, Ah this Python site is not really up to date"

Have a nice WE.




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 00:54:05 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 05:54:05 GMT
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a79231$dlc$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9g8vs.17d.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Aahz wrote in comp.lang.python:
> [...] Unless you're on a shoestring, consider getting a commercial
> database; you should probably also check to see whether MySQL or
> PostgreSQL will give you better performance.

Just to avoid misunderstandings: of course you can get commercial
support for open-source RDBMs. At least for the major ones:

PostgreSQL: PostgreSQL Inc., Redhat
MySQL:      MySQL AB, Nusphere
SAPdb:      SAP
Firebird:   IBphoenix

I also think that an RDBMs is the way to go for the OP's problem. If
at some point too many requests run against the database, you can
optimize performance by putting logic into the database (stored
procedures).

If you're brave, you can even use Python as a language for stored
procedures running in PostgreSQL :)

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Wed Mar  6 11:52:34 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:52:34 -0500
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3c864a78$1_3@news.newsgroups.com>

"Curtis Jensen" <cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu> wrote in message
news:3C850173.4050004 at bioeng.ucsd.edu...
> The only disappointing parts for me were:

> No chapters on extending Python with C.

You can find a respectable (IMHO) chapter on extending and embedding in
"Professional Linux Programming", Wrox Press.

Strange place to bury it, but if you're in a bookstore some time check it
out. I'd like to know your opinion.

(I wrote it)





-----=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
 Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits!
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From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Mon Mar 18 05:25:50 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:25:50 +0100
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <mailman.1016042063.7531.python-list@python.org>  <a6qjeq$fvcf8$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de> <slrna954bc.h7j.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <a74fb0$i3aue$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

OK, I will try to take your point of view:
Following you, lists are a special kind of dictionnary where:
- keys are regular sequence of integers,
- keys are automatically managed :
    - automatically created when an element is put in the list,
    - modified for each element being over a removed or an inserted element.

I have to admit that I have some difficulties to think like that. I see a
list as being intrinsically different of a dictionnary because in a
dictionnary, the key (even if it is an integer) is something related to the
item. In a list, the index is the place of the item in the list. If you take
the item out of the list, the index doen't make sense at all anymore.

And if you need a dictionnary with integers keys, just build it:
makeDictFromList = lambda list: dict(zip(range(len(list)), list))

I admit that this doen't apply that much to tuples that can be more easily
seen as a special kind of dictionnaries if you really want it.

B.

PS Thanks to understand my bad english and to add some mathematical
formalism that I miss. I really appreciate.

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:slrna954bc.h7j.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no...
> In article <a6qjeq$fvcf8$1 at ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>, Bertrand Geston
wrote:
> [...]
> >Let's keep things simple and understandable :
> >- lists are ordered sets,
> >- dictionnaries are "keyed" sets.
>
> The standard mathematical definition of sequences (as opposed to
> ordered sets) is a partial function mapping integers to elements. This
> seems awfully close to what you're calling "keyed" sets, by
> restricting the domain to integers. It also seems awfully close to
> Python lists (for instance). I see nothing inconsistent or illogical
> about list.keys. list.indices is an alternative, of course, but would
> not allow for polymorphic use.
>
> --
> Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
> http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org




From ron.l.johnson at cox.net  Sun Mar  3 22:52:58 2002
From: ron.l.johnson at cox.net (Ron Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:52:58 GMT
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <a5uf17$9r5ep$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <ucCg8.35817$jC3.911765@news1.east.cox.net>

On 04 Mar 2002, 00:27:23, William Park wrote:
> Doug Farrell <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I'm wondering if anyone knows of a text search engine that works with
> > Python? What I'm looking for specifically is something that will
> > compress the text and still allow searches and retrievals that can be
> > exact matches or proximity based. The text I want to compress and
> > search is huge (70 megs) and should compress down to half, not
> > including any index files that might be required by the search engine.
> > Anyone know of anything like this or any ideas?
> > 
> > Thanks, Doug Farrell
> 
> Perhaps, you can illustrate your problem with some concrete examples.
> Otherwise, you'll be getting "use Linux" or "use gzip/bzip2" answers
> which wouldn't be too useful for you (judging by the fact that you had
> to ask in the first place).
> 

Maybe he's talking about "zgrep".

http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/gzip/zgrep.1.html

However, the effort involved in decompressing the file might out-
weigh the benefits from saving 35MB disk space.

Unless you have an _old_ disk, it may be best to leave the text
uncompressed.

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ron Johnson, Jr.        Home: ron.l.johnson at cox.net        |
| Jefferson, LA  USA      http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81    |
|                                                            |
| 484,246 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4   !
! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.                |
! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri.                  !
! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom.       |
+------------------------------------------------------------+


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Mar 26 06:29:43 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:43 +0100
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
References: <mailman.1017132640.22480.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7pm9i$86t$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:34:41 -0000, "cedric_briner"
<briner at infomaniak.ch> wrote:

>class CRdb:
>	__fieldsName= []
>	__keyname= []
>	__records   = ['first','secnd','third']
>	__iRecord= 0
>
>because I would like to write something like:
>
>db=CRdb()
>for entry in db:
>	print entry

This question should be answered by RTFM! But anyway,  just to give a
starting point:

class CRdb:

    def __init__(self):
        self.__fieldsName= []
        self.__keyname= []
        self.__records   = ['first','secnd','third']
        self.__iRecord= 0

    def __getitem__(self,i):
        return self.__records[i]

def test():
    db=CRdb()
    for entry in db:
        print entry

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 19:44:02 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:44:02 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF83BFBB49.0BCF1D0C-ON88256B73.000396D4@i2.com>

[Jeff Hinrichs]
> Ok, so after 3 days of exposing myself as an object luddite,
> I think I understand what is being asked for and why the proponents
> are so strongly in favor of it.   I have officially upgraded my
> position to neutral on the matter. (at this rate, I might be in the
> pro camp by Thursday <wink>) I would like to thank everyone one (carel
> and james) for taking the time to enlighten me (even if sometimes it
> requires a 2x4')

Not a problem!  Converts, in fact, get special treatment <wink>.  Seriously
though, if nothing else, perhaps these PEP 276 discussions have helped to
highlight Python's wonderful "everything is a first-class object"
philosophy!

Jim




From jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au  Thu Mar 21 19:39:05 2002
From: jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au (Jamie Carl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:39:05 GMT
Subject: Execute external program
Message-ID: <3c9a7d0e_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

Hopefully this is a simple question.  How can I get python to execute an
external program such as 'bash' or whatever?
Is there a line of code that will do this.  No interface with STDIO needed
so i can run blind.

TIA

Jamie Carl





From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Tue Mar 19 17:32:34 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:32:34 +0100
Subject: Newbie: EOF Error when making arrays .fromfile
In-Reply-To: <33e33d88.0203191243.454d39b8@posting.google.com>
References: <33e33d88.0203191243.454d39b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020319223234.GA3851@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 19/03/02 ? 12:43, Matt Strange ?crivit:
> hello all, i am very new to python and i'm using v2.2 on a Win98SE
> machine.  i needed to read in double-type data from an ASCII file
> (http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/planet0.dat).  this file contains 3000
> doubles separated by the tab("\t") value.  after reading information
> posted on this newsgroup, i decided that it would be best to first
> translate this ASCII data into a binary file using a c++ program
> (http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/atb.cpp).  then, i could read in this
> binary file (http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/bin0.dat) with the following
> lines of python:
> 
> >>> coord = array('d')
> >>> coord.fromfile(open("bin0.dat",'r'),3000)

Hmm. Works for me with your C++ and Python code. Perhaps (unlikely,
though) Python and your C++ compiler use different sizes for float. Btw.
these are 3003 values, if I see correctly.

If you don't need raw arrays and can use a list instead, this very
simple code does should do what you need:

d = map(float, open("planet0.dat").read().split())

Btw. Python doesn't have the distinction between 'float' and 'double'. A
Python float type is using a C double internally.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.7 ?C      Wind: 2.3 m/s



From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 05:58:52 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 10:58:52 -0000
Subject: Gadfly mirrors?
References: <slrna95io5.1qs.matt@swordfish.havenrock.com> <slrna979jf.dp.usenet@fohnhab.minus1.de> <a773d1$6i0$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <a775lc$372$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <a773d1$6i0$05$1 at news.t-online.com>,
Harald Schneider <h_schneider at marketmix.com> wrote:
>Thanks for this valuable hint!
>For all others outside, the exact link is:
>ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian-archive/dists/slink/main/binary-i386/interpreter
>s/
>
>One prob left: How do you unpack a *.deb file ?

Debian packages are ar(1) archives. Unpacking that gets you some tar.gz
files with the stuff you want inside them. 

Have a look at
http://ibiblio.org/gferg/ldp/giles/repository/repository-2.html
under "Binary packages"

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From bernie at 3captus.com  Wed Mar 13 19:23:33 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:23:33 GMT
Subject: possible string.strip memory leakage
References: <mailman.1016063904.5367.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FEDFB.666F1187@3captus.com>

Mike Brenner wrote:

> There might be a memory leak in string.strip.
>
> I wrote a python function to strip blanks off the left and right of a string. When I discovered string.strip, I replaced the call to my version with string.split, and I got a large memory leakage. When I put the call back to calling my python function, the memory leakage went away.

Did happen to me.  So we need your Python version and OS you are running.

Bernie

--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 16:19:56 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:19:56 +0000
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017504362.25937.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaacavs.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 30 Mar 2002 11:04:13 -0500, Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> wrote:
>
>I wonder if this is the circle-ellipse problem over again?

What is the circle-ellipse problem?

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From narnett at mccmedia.com  Wed Mar 20 12:36:21 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:36:21 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
In-Reply-To: <a79ic7$qqb$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJGEKFJLAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Bengt Richter

[snip]

> Others seem to have inferred what you are up to, but I'll have to
> stick with
> my original post until you say what you really are trying to do.

All is not yet clear to me yet...!  But this is related to identifying
relatively distinct ideas in on-line discussions.  I'm generating feature
vectors to spot when a conversation forks, so to speak.  The message
meta-data and bodies are stored in MySQL, so it would be somewhat of a
natural for me to stick word frequency data in a table.

I just realized that the version of MySQL I'm using has full-text indexing
(I had thought it wasn't showing up until 4.0, which is not ready for
production use yet).  However, there are some default behaviors in MySQL's
full-text search that I don't like... and I'm not inclined at the moment to
compile my own MySQL binary to change them, especially since I still won't
get proximity and other capabilities.

I suppose I should have asked about full-text search packages that will
accomplish the same things, but I know too darn much about them and I want
to get at the inverted indexes themselves.  There's some unusual search
weighting that I want to be able to do eventually.  If there's an open
source search engine that would let me add an externally calculated
weighting factor, that would be terrific.

> It's not even
> clear that you're interested in anything but global word
> frequencies over your
> entire set of files, except for the clue that you think you may
> need to store
> something in a database ;-)

I'm also interested in how the word frequencies change over time.  As an
example of why this is interesting, I took a look at them in Usenet postings
after the Columbine shootings a few years ago.  Spotting the features whose
frequencies change fastest gives an idea of where the discussion is going.
For example, "video games" showed up at high frequency initially, but
dropped rapidly, while "parents" rose.  Once you know the features that are
changing rapidly, you can go grab the sentences that contain the greatest
number of them, which yields a decent summary of the ideas that are moving,
so to speak, in a discussion.

The really, really (unreachably!) big picture here is that, as Tim O'Reilly
and I like to say, I'm trying to figure out what the Internet is thinking
today.  I did a lot of my initial brainstorming on this stuff with the
O'Reilly folks, who use this sort of analysis to get a handle on which open
source software is gaining momentum and thus might deserve a book.

Nick




From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Mar 16 16:12:43 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:12:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
In-Reply-To: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020316131243.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 16-Mar-2002 Jeffrey-man wrote:
> Hello, everybody!
> I'm a newbie and I'm just learning. I know, it's a stupid question, but I
> want to resolve it.
> Learning the Begginers Guide, I found an exercise. It tells me:
> "Write a program that continually reads in numbers from the user and adds
> them together until the sum reaches 100."
> Can anybody help me?
> 
>  -----
> 
> sum_stop = 100
> num = input("Please enter the number: ")
> 
> for sum in range(num+num,sum_stop):
>     print "Now the sum is", num+num
>     sleep(1)
> 
> print "The sum is >/= 100!"
> 
>  -----
> 
> Maybe I'm doing something wrong?
> 
> 

you misread the specification.

You are to ask the user "give me a number", add that number to the previous one
(hint: use zero the first time), then check if the new sum is less than the
stopping point (100 in this case).  If the stopping point is reached, cease
asking for a number.

Does that help?



From marxdormoy at aol.com  Wed Mar 27 10:43:52 2002
From: marxdormoy at aol.com (Marxdormoy)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:43:52 GMT
Subject: visual python 
Message-ID: <20020327104352.12035.00000368@mb-mk.aol.com>



downlaod visual python ?  website?


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Sat Mar 16 01:30:41 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:30:41 +0900
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com> <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3C91F553.D9E511CB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <4sBk8.301$ID.1977@news.hananet.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>> Peter Hansen wrote in comp.lang.python:
>> > Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> >> I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows
>> >> machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a
>> >> few people who actively test for the project at home.
>> >>
>> 
>> NSIS rocks. But AFAIR his problem is that he doesn't have a Windows
>> box to build the installer on.
> 
> D'oh!  You're right, my brain wouldn't absorb that concept.  Someone
> writing a Windows installer in Python because he doesn't have a
> Windows box to run the real Windows installers on.  It boggles the
> mind: how does he plan to test?!
> 

=) Very carefully. I have a couple of guys who are willing to do the 
testing.

Jonathan


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Mar 24 14:52:46 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:52:46 -0300
Subject: Embedding help
In-Reply-To: <3C9DFC8B.5070700@Lindbergs.org>
References: <3C9DFC8B.5070700@Lindbergs.org>
Message-ID: <20020324165246.B20294@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> (called once)  setup(int type)
> This would initialize python and a python class with the passed-in value 
> (Used internally by the python class).
> This python class would also import other modules (both builtin and 
> custom; the custom ones would be pure python)
[...]
> My problem is the following:
> How do I keep the class instance around so that I can maintain state? 
> The getPt function would return variables that in part are functions of 
> previous inputs, not just the current input.

I'm not sure I could follow you here.

State is maintained internaly by the python interpreter. Just don't
reinitialize the interpreter between calls to your functions. If you
want to save your instaces for further usage, just save them in
static variables or lists, as you'd usually do.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 29 20:58:59 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 01:58:59 GMT
Subject: number of lines in a file
References: <b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465@weber.videotron.net> <c76ff6fc.0203291322.39315d3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a83653$74u$0@216.39.172.122>

On 29 Mar 2002 13:22:28 -0800, sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote:

>"Joseph Youssef" <leader730 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465 at weber.videotron.net>...
>> hello, I am nwe to Python and I'm trying to write this script but I need 
>> it to check how many lines is in the file and I don't know how so I'm 
>> hoping someone could tell me.
>> 
>
>Welcome to Python. 
>
>Others have suggested approaches which attempt to read the whole file
>into memory, but may succeed very slowly or not at all in the event
>that you have files that are larger than your machine's physical
>memory; here's a slightly more robust approach:
>
>num_lines = 0
>f = file('path_and_file_name')
>for line in f:
>    num_lines += 1
>f.close()
>
You can do a one-liner without reading the whole file at once ;-)

reduce(lambda x,y: x+1, file('/path/and/filename').xreadlines(), 0)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 12:02:23 2002
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:02:23 GMT
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
References: <Tjig8.5306$H17.1119368328@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <zGsg8.165877$dh.43603923@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>


Tim Peters Explains it here.
http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ed6a75bc5eed7ee9&seekm=000401be9e6d%2427a98ec0%24029e2299

Searched on 
"tim peters match"
It's result 203

--Darrell

Paul M 
wrote:

> Is it possible to create a regular expression for searching for the
> outermost matching braces in a string in which there may be nested braces?
> 



From fgeiger at datec.at  Sat Mar 30 05:05:49 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:05:49 +0100
Subject: GUI programming
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a842m3$fc$2@rex.ip-plus.net>

Have a close look at anygui at sourceforge. anygui enables your code being
independent of any backend gui package on the target.

If it does not yet fit your needs *yet* (still in early stage, but moving
very fast!), look at wxPython. I know of 2 good builders here: wxDesigner
(www.roebling.de, commercial but affordable) and Boa at sourceforge.

Cheers
Franz


"Umesh Persad" <upersad at tstt.net.tt> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>  I am doing an assignment using python -
> making a turkish checkers game.
>
> ---------------------------------------
> |                                                         |
> |                                                         |
> |                                                         |
> |            checker board area                |
> ---------------------------------------
> |                                                         |
> |          text fileds and buttons area       |
> |                                                         |
> ---------------------------------------
>
> I wanted to have a user interface where
> I can draw the game board as well as take
> in text input below the board with some text
> felds and buttons. I see there are many GUI toolkits
> available. I am wondering which one should I use
> (tkinter, wxpython?) that will be simple enough
> to get me up and running qiuckly. Also are there
> any examples that I can look at?
>
> Also, if any one is familiar with Tkinter,
> how do I put up a window with a size
> that I want? Also how do I place a canvas
> on the window at a predefined size?
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Umesh
>
>




From tejarex at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 16:19:42 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:19:42 GMT
Subject: Dictionaries in Lists
References: <ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <OJvh8.348050$eS3.26592972@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I was attempting to make a list of dictionaries, which to me feels
like the
> C equivlant of an array of structs, kind of. anyway, after making a
> dictionary and putting some values into it, and trying to append it
to a
> list, python is not liking this. Am I approaching the idea the wrong
way? i
> would like to keep the data organized as dictionaries.. the code
looked
> something like
>
> Info{'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah}

I see 2 syntax errors above.  Show up *exactly* what you entered.
Fire up interactive browser and cut and past result.

> Listing=[]
> Listing.append(Info)

Terry J. Reedy





From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Mar  7 09:21:02 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:21:02 GMT
Subject: wxVTKRenderWindow inside  wxSplitterWindow
Message-ID: <3c8772cb.20639421@news.easynews.net>

HI,

I want to use a wxSplitterWindow to render two different
body with VTK. Here is what I tried



#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
class ViewSplitter(wxSplitterWindow):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID):
        wxSplitterWindow.__init__(self, parent, ID)
        EVT_SPLITTER_SASH_POS_CHANGED(self, self.GetId(),
self.OnSashChanged)
        EVT_SPLITTER_SASH_POS_CHANGING(self, self.GetId(),
self.OnSashChanging)

    def OnSashChanged(self, evt):
        i=1
       # some stuff

    def OnSashChanging(self, evt):
        i=1
       # more stuff
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
def ShowCmModel(frame,title):

        f = wxFrame(frame, -1, title, size=(450, 300),

style=wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE|wxNO_FULL_REPAINT_ON_RESIZE)

#Without splitting everything works fine
        #win = vtk.wxVTKRenderWindow(f, -1) 

# Now trying to create two different RenderWindows in SplitterWindow
        splitter = ViewSplitter(f, -1)
        CMwin = wxWindow(splitter, -1)
        ABAwin = wxWindow(splitter, -1)
        splitter.SplitVertically(CMwin, ABAwin)

        win1 = vtk.wxVTKRenderWindow(CMwin, -1)
        win2 = vtk.wxVTKRenderWindow(ABAwin, -1)

# All the rendering stuff.....
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------

My problem is the size of the two Render Areas. I cant make
them fit the two splitted windows (they are very small) and they are
not resized when I change the window size. As I didn't find any doc on
wxVTKRenderWindow, I don't know what to do.
I tried 

win1=vtk.wxVTKRenderWindow(CMwin, -1, size=CMwin.GetSizeTuple())

but that didn't work either.

Any idea ?

Thanks,
Marcus



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 12:26:44 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:26:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Javascript to Python
In-Reply-To: <2030665d.0203010912.1bb9c0ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020301092644.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 01-Mar-2002 Sam Collett wrote:
> Does anyone know of any good sites on Javascript > Python examples?
> I have a function in javascript that returns the file extension:
> 
> function FileExtension(sFilePath)
> {
>     return Right(sFilePath,sFilePath.length-sFilePath.lastIndexOf("."))
> }
> 
> so FileExtension("/path/to/file.doc") would return .doc
> I would also want to return the filename (file) and the path
> (/path/to/). How would I go about that?
> 

import os, os.path
>>> filename = '/path/to/foo.doc'
>>> os.path.splitext(filename)
('/path/to/foo', '.doc')
>>> os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))
('foo', '.doc')
>>> os.path.basename(filename) 
'foo.doc'
>>> os.path.splitext(filename)
('/path/to/foo', '.doc')
>>> os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))
('foo', '.doc')

os.path has a bunch of nice path related tools like abspath() and join(). 
Check out the python docs.

> What equivalents to the functions Right and Left (right side of
> string, left side of string)
> 

sorry, not quite sure what the Right side of a string is (-:

> Also is there an easier way to do number incrementing (just me being
> lazy):
> while r<5
>  print r
>  r=r+1
> 
> I have tried r++ to add 1 each time, and r-- to take away one, but
> this does not work, so is the only way r=r+1 or r=r-1 ?
> 

in python 1.5.2 and earlier the only way was r = r + 1.  In the 2.x series the
+= operator was added (I think this works in javascript too, it works in most C
like languages) r += 1.  There is equivalents for the other standard math ops.



From aahzpy at panix.com  Tue Mar 12 19:22:08 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:22:08 -0500
Subject: is time.sleep a thread safe function?
References: <c775a687.0203121547.396ba8a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6m63g$6gc$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <c775a687.0203121547.396ba8a8 at posting.google.com>,
Zihong Lu <zlu at extremenetworks.com> wrote:
>
>Recently, we have seen some weird behaviors in our python application
>in Solaris 2.6, 2.7,and 2.8 platform.  The application is a web based
>server, that uses threads heavily.  It runs fine in Linux and win32
>platforms, but in Solaris, it stopped accepting after ran for couple
>of hours.  One of our guesses is that the time.sleep() used through
>out our application is not thread safe.  Can any one please help us
>eliminate/confirm this factor?  Thanks.

I'd be extremely surprised if time.sleep() were a factor, because it's
implemented using select() on platforms that have it (which probably
includes Solaris).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Mon Mar  4 19:53:40 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:53:40 +0100
Subject: Python standards
In-Reply-To: <Z7Ug8.52655$Dh.5203103@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
References: <Z7Ug8.52655$Dh.5203103@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20020305005340.GA8780@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 05/03/02 ? 00:16, CSJedi ?crivit:
> Can someone tell me if Python has proprietary or consensus standards such as
> ANSI?
 
No, there's no standard for the Python language.

Thinking of it, there are several languages which have become very
popular very quickly: Visual Basic, Perl and Java. Should this be a
coincidence?

Thinking about it, VB and Java are essentially single-vendor languages
(Java less so, but still), and the vendors have probably little interest
in standardizing the languages.

As for Perl and Python, the implementations are open-source and there's
only one Perl implementation that I know of and only two usable Python
implementations (CPython and Jython). So again, there's little use for a
standard here, perhaps mostly because there's no actual product to put
the "ISO Python compliant" label onto.

In Python-land, the situation is that there's a de-facto standard,
namely the CPython implementation, which was the only implementation for
a long time. As soon as a new feature is implemented in CPython, the
Jython developers follow suit for their system.

Its good to know that the CPython folks try to not introduce any
language features which are impossible to implement in Jython. That was
one argument against including the original "Stackless Python" into the
core, for example.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 2.2 ?C      Wind: 0.5 m/s



From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Thu Mar 28 19:06:51 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:06:51 +0100
Subject: Exceptions and modules / namespaces question
References: <1136f745.0203281521.76a1a62c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ca3b040$1_3@news.bluewin.ch>

The problem is that "import module1" in
module2 is re-executing your main script
a second time and so creating new
definitions.

The main script, as the "if __name__ ==
 '__main__' " idiom hints, appear as loaded (in the module
cache sys.modules)
under such a name, so "import module1"
triggers the loading of module1.py
as distinct (new) module from the main script.

Consider:

#mod.py:
class C: pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
  import mod
  import sys
  print "module __main__: ",sys.modules['__main__']
  print "module mod:", mod
  print  "are the same?",{0: 'n',1: 'y'}[sys.modules['__main__'] is mod.C]
  print "class C in main script:",C
  print "class C from mod:",mod.C
  print  "are the same?",{0: 'n',1: 'y'}[C is mod.C]

Output:
$python mod.py
module __main__:  <module '__main__' (built-in)>
module mod: <module 'mod' from 'mod.pyc'>
are the same? n
class C in main script: __main__.C
class C from mod: mod.C
are the same? n

regards.




From ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu  Wed Mar 13 16:45:44 2002
From: ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu (Omri Schwarz)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0500
Subject: Newbie regex question.
References: <mailman.1016049743.28518.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <octy9gw87lj.fsf@nerd-xing.mit.edu>

"Sean 'Shaleh' Perry" <shalehperry at attbi.com> writes:

> On 13-Mar-2002 Omri Schwarz wrote:
> > 
> > I have a regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
> > and want to search a string I know to have multiple 
> > instances of this regex. I'm a tad confused by
> > the RE Howto, so I'd like to ask, how do I properly 
> > get a for loop to access the widget1 and widget2 
> > strings of each instance?
> > 
> > for instance in regex.search(string).groups() 
> > seems to be the right thing, but isn't working.
> > 
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> s= 'yadda widget1 widget2 yadda'
> >>> regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
> >>> for match in regex.search(s).groups(): print match
> ... 
> widget1
> widget2
> 
> This works here.  Although I would strongly caution you to do:
> 
> re_match = regex.search(s)
> if re_match != None ......
> 
> just in case the regex fails.

What I was trying to get was 
widget1 of instance 1
widget2 of instance 1
widget1 of instance 2
widget2 of instance 2
...



> 

-- 
Omri Schwarz --- ocscwar at mit.edu ('h' before war) 
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Mar 26 18:30:17 2002
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven Majewski)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:30:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: seek in a file
In-Reply-To: <a7qujn$n78gl$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203261811340.326-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.Virginia.EDU>


On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Andreas Penzel wrote:

> How to jump to a specified line in a file which is read-opened?
> With seek() I can jump to an exact position of  the complete file in
> "byte-steps".
> Is seek able to jump to a line-number?

	No

 Lines are variable length and delimited by a newline char ( or a pair
of chars on Windows ). There's no way to find the start of the next
line without reading the previous ones. Even systems, like VMS, that
use a different method ( char count followed by chars ) still need
to read each line, because they are still variable length records.
 In other words: this isn't just a language limitation of C or Python
or a limitation of unix I/O libs. Fortran, for example, supports both
direct (random access or 'seekable') access files and sequential access
files, but direct access files must be fixed record length.


> If not, what else can I do?

file.readlines() returns a list of all of the lines in the file:

	lines = open( 'filename' ).readlines()

The first line is in lines[0], the Nth line in lines[N-1].


Are the files too big to fit in memory ?
What do you want to do with the lines ?
( I hope you weren't planning on trying to modify a line in a file:
  because of the variable length on lines, if you don't write
  exactly the same number of chars back, you will either overwite
  the next line, or leave an extra partial line after your edited
  line. Most text editors read the whole file into memory and then
  write out a new file after it's modified in memory. )


-- Steve Majewski






From geiseri at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 15:43:57 2002
From: geiseri at yahoo.com (ian reinhart geiser)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:43:57 -0500
Subject: interactive python shell
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203271307060.20332-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203271307060.20332-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <200203271543.58084.geiseri@yahoo.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday 27 March 2002 04:11 pm, you wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, ian reinhart geiser wrote:
> > Well I was hopeing to run this as a "widget" as take input from a line
> > edit and show the response on a listview widget.  from the above
> > directions this seems feasable, although I am not sure i want to be using
> > sockets for something like this.
>
> Ah... this is somewhat easier then. The solution I was describing was a
> console on a network server - you can basically telnet in and do remote
> debugging.
>
hehe, actually that would be really cool, but is overkill for now...

> > ah, this is a problem, because i want to be able to set the values of
> > current running variables.  i have a static data object from a cmodule i
> > am importing that contains  a fair amount of this information but i would
> > like to keep away from global variables.
>
> Well, the problem is deciding what exactly do you mean by "current running
> variables"? The issue is that your console will essentially be in a
> different thread and call stack than the variables you want to inspect
> (otherwise what you're looking for is simply a debugger), so you need some
> way to access them, whether it be a reference to some all-encompassing
> object or a global variable.

if i import this debugger and pass it my main object as an argument would that 
work?

that sounds about what you are saying i need.

>
> > I was looking at the interactive console class, but that seems not to
> > work well from the GUI, or am I missing something?
>
> You can still use it just fine - override the raw_input and write methods
> so that they get data from the widget and write it back out.
OKay so interactive console is the beast i am looking for?  Is there some 
sample code that shows off how it works?  I think I see in my mind how the 
PyQt and the module side of things will work, but I am unclear how to make 
the interactive console get access to my global object.

Thanks
	-ian reinhart geiser


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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 11:46:19 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:46:19 +0000
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com> <a7a5ki$ice73$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <j5fh9uclpspoqpbfoaodidshpkm9r2dups@4ax.com>

Interesting. I've had a quick look. I'll explore later.

Thanks.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 06:54:06 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:54:06 +0000
Subject: distutils question
References: <3C8655CA.7080008@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <a65onv$n5m$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Brian Kelley wrote:

> I'm trying to bundle some example files using distutils and have been
> running into some problems.
> 
> setup(name="frowns",
>       version="0.2",
>       package_dir = {'':".."},
> 
>        ...
>        data_files=[('examples', ['examples/example1.py',
>                                  'docs/frowns.html']
>        ...

Take a look at Manifest.in and setup.py from 
http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/ (go to the downloads link). My 
solution is a bit kludgy, but it works for a problem very similar to what you 
have. You can also use Martin's PyXML, but that's a bit 'heavier'. My 
approach isn't nearly as flexible as what his will give you, but only uses 
standard distutils plus two or three lines of extra python code. 

Cheers,

f.


From tismer at tismer.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:45 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:23:45 +0100
Subject: microthreads and C calls Re: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org> <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3C8433CD.83B75D33@arakne.com>
Message-ID: <3C848EA1.1000302@tismer.com>

Frederic Giacometti wrote:

...


> I could add the feature to the Python engine myself, but I need funding.
> Sponsors...?


No problem, I think there will be some time on my side
to do that.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
      where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Tue Mar 19 13:09:00 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 18:09:00 GMT
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org> <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com> <u4rjdred0.fsf@python.net> <vDsl8.992$%m2.418@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <a74sdh.3vsec89.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9evls.bpd.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a74sdh.3vsec89.1 at kserver.org>, Sheila King wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:05:43 -0500, "David Rushby"
>> I checked the release22-maint branch of Python out of SF CVS at approx
>> 15:00 GMT on March 18.  I took the next to last example in email.tex
>> (the program that mails the contents of a directory) and ran it for
>> three cases:

Reported as bug #531966 on SourceForge.

--amk


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 12:46:33 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:46:33 +0000
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa9a3p.hq8.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:55:51 -0500, Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>"Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
>message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
>> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
>> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
>> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
>> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
>> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
>> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
>> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
>
>I'd really like to see a Python mail/newsreader. That would teach you a lot,
>and keep you busy for a while...

IIRC there is already a Python mail client.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From cliechti at gmx.net  Mon Mar 18 17:35:26 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 23:35:26 +0100
Subject: Syntax color hightlight
References: <3C966603.5010605@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <Xns91D5F01997472cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Fabien Henon <ffjhenon at club-internet.fr> wrote in 
news:3C966603.5010605 at club-internet.fr:
> I am writing a text editor for POV-RAY (with Python-Tkinter) and
> I'd like to know if it is possible to implement syntax color 
> highlighting for a specific language.
> I'd like to implement <>,(),[] matches as well.
> Is Tkinter powerful enough or do I have to use megawidget,
> wxpython.

yes it is. you might want to look at the Idle sources on your 
harddisk.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 16 15:21:40 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 20:21:40 GMT
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <a709gk$m69$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:50:18 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>> I find ServerProxy to be a more logical name, but the fact that I
>> can't find it mentioned in the docs makes me a bit wary of using
>> it... (On the other hand, ServerProxy is what's documented in the
>> docstring. What is the history behind this duality -- and what is the
>> motivation for the conflicting current usage?
>
>the original code used Server -- after all, the object is
>representing a remote server.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
But not functioning as?

This is in good part an English usage issue, but
IMO the term 'proxy' should not be used except when the
proxy duplicates the function and stands transparently
in place of that for which it is a proxy.

I expect a proxy for a server to implement the functionality
it is a proxy for. Likewise a proxy for an object, or a function.
But to my mind something that just provides an interface is not
a 'proxy' for the thing (remote or not) it provides an interface to.

If the interface were e.g., capable of fronting for a remote server
or alternately a local (same machine) server, the local server might
be a proxy (if providing the functionality) for the remote server,
but the interface object would not be a 'proxy' for either IMO.

ServerLAPI might be a better term, for Server-Local-Application-Program-Interface.
I.e., it implies a bit of interfacing code or an object for that purpose,
not proxy server functionality implemented within itself. A separate interface object
for a proxy server might be called ProxyServerLAPI, whereas a module _implementing_
a proxy server would be called ProxyServer, even though they might provide identical
methods for programming access.

>
>the (rather lame) ServerProxy alias was added later, after
>enough people had flamed me over the original naming...
>
>> who thinks that SimpleXMLRPCServer should be called
>> xmlrpclib.Server, with xmlrpclib.ServerProxy being used as the
>> server proxy...
>
>most XML-RPC users don't use/need server functionality,
>and shouldn't have to pay for something they don't use...
>
Regards,
Bengt Richter



From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Sun Mar 10 10:52:17 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:52:17 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news> <slrna8mj5r.tjv.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <3c8b8112.27836128@news>

OK, that makes perfect sense. In my case, I was simply looking for a
predictable way to return a number with two decimal places -- knowing
that it will be an approximation of Python's approximation. Obviously,
using round() is not the way to go about this. I'll figure it out.
Thanks for all the very informative responses.

Bruce

On 10 Mar 2002 12:12:10 GMT, scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
wrote:

>brobbins333 at shaw.ca <brobbins333 at shaw.ca> wrote in comp.lang.python:
>> I understand the problem of rounding errors with binary numbers.
>> However, the rounding functions of other languages  work around it and
>> return a usable result. What have they got that Python hasn't got?
>
>The other programs are liars - they show a rounded result, the way Python's
>print does.
>
>It is not possible to represent 56.79 in a finite binary float - it's a
>repetitive fraction in binary.
>
>Python decided not to hide this in the interactive interpreter. If you print
>out a number, it looks the way it does in other languages. Under the hood,
>they all do the same thing.
>
>-- 
>Remco Gerlich



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 17:18:37 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Apr 2002 00:18:37 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017610082.25399.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33cygnzya.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:

> Just a random thought ...
> 
> Theorem:
> ========
> Assume specification of PEP 285. The following statements hold truth:
> 
>   True is One
> 
> and
> 
>   False is Zero,
> 
> where One and Zero represent integers 1 and 0, respectively.

It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is. Did you mean 'is' in the
Python sense of checking identity? Then this theorem can't possibly
true: type(One) is int and type(True) is bool implies One is not True.

> 
> Proof:
> ------
> According to PEP, True and False are instances of bool that is a subclass
> of int. Therefore True and False can be considered as integers and it
> makes sense to compare them with integers. If n is an integer then the
> following statements hold
> 
>   True == n   only if n is 1
> 
> and
> 
>   False == n  only if n is 0.

That is correct. However, a==b does not imply a is b.

Regards,
Martin


From markus at ibp.de  Wed Mar  6 05:50:21 2002
From: markus at ibp.de (markus at ibp.de)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 11:50:21 +0100
Subject: what is happening at __init__
References: <3C8358C0.81D97AD8@doc.ic.ac.uk> <a5vprr$jvp$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <u8z967yxe.fsf@ibp.de>

Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> writes:

> Your questions regarding the so-called "constructor" may simply show that 
> the term "constructor" is not so good after all.

"Initializer"? After all, it's called "__init__".

-Markus


From Ken.Peek at Engineer.com  Sat Mar 30 12:58:37 2002
From: Ken.Peek at Engineer.com (Ken Peek)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 09:58:37 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <mailman.1017454367.25440.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cfcf4b0d.0203300958.357dac43@posting.google.com>

"Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017454367.25440.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: Steven Majewski [mailto:sdm7g at Virginia.EDU]
> > 
> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> > 
> > > > From: Steve Lamb [mailto:grey at despair.dmiyu.org]
> > > >
> > > > its called a directory pointing to functions = {'case':closed}
> > > >
> > > >     I do not believe that any language which can have a hash
> > > > of function pointers has any business with a case statement.
> > >
> > > But that only works when all the functions in all the branches take
>  the
> > > same number and types of arguments -- hardly the general case.
> > >
> > 
> > table = {}
> > 
> > table[key] = func, (args,...)
> > ...
> > 
> > def doit( k ):
> > 	return table[k][0]( *table[k][1] )
> 
> Point taken, but is this an argument for or against the match/switch
> statement <wink>?
> 
> Personally, I don't think it's worth adding a match statement unless we
> can have ML style pattern matching...
> 
> Not-sure-what-a-good-Pythonic-spelling-would-be-though'ly y'rs
> -- bjorn

Since we are no longer forcing only literals to be used (which would
allow for compile time optimizations), I don't think there would be
anything to stop you from allowing function calls (or other
expressions) in the parameter list of a clause, which would allow you
to do some pretty intricate calculations.  This WOULD however redefine
the way lists are parsed, and _I_ don't like that:

branchon MyObject:
    [123, 456, "hello", [], (), xyz-abc, 42*etc, MyFunc(MyObject)]:
        # do some stuff
        # do some more stuff

    ["I want a branchon construct", "(and more whining)"]:
        # do some stuff
        # do some more stuff
        fallthrough           # USEFUL a LOT!
    [MyOtherObject, (1,2,3), [4,5,6]]:
        # do some stuff
        # do some more stuff

    else:
        # no matching clauses, so:
        # do some stuff
        # do some more stuff

def MyFunc(x):
    # test object "x" for all kinds of things,
    # and return "x" if you want a match,
    # else return something guaranteed to
    # fail, like (x,none)
    if x_is_a_match:
        return x
    else
        return (x,none)

=====================

This would be clear and readable.  Use your imagination-- FEEL THE
POWER of this construct (to make more readable code)...

I-am-not-trying-to-impress-you-with-my-python-knowledge'ly yours,
--Ken Peek

=====================


From brueckd at tbye.com  Sun Mar  3 21:08:42 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:08:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rotor in Jython?
In-Reply-To: <7xlmdaf2pz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203031804330.27908-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 3 Mar 2002, Paul Rubin wrote:

> > > > Put another way: sorting by key length, AES beats rotors hands down.
> > > > Sorting by computational cost, rotors always win because you can just make
> > > > the keys longer (without having to reimplement your crypto).
> > >
> > > Longer keys are only relevant if breaking the cipher requires searching
> > > for the key.
> >
> > Heheh... that's essentially what cryptanalysis is - finding the key since
> > in most cases the algorithm itself is known. If you're referring to
> > non-brute force key searches, then key length is relevent there as well
> > (unless the algorithm itself is flawed).
>
> Yes, that's the point.  AES appears to be very attack resistant.

No, it's better than DES but it's widely recognized that AES is actually
susceptible to some of the same types of differential cryptanalysis.
Personally I think it's plenty strong, but it's not immune.

> Compared to AES, rotors have a pretty sorry history of falling to
> cryptanalysis.  There's no reason to think brute force is the best way
> to solve a rotor cipher.

But the sorry history of rotors has nothing to do with rotor strength and
everything to do with short/obvious keys, the obvious starting text of the
messages (e.g. "No news to report"), and the limitations of mechanical
implementations. You can *always* make a rotor stronger by increasing the
length of the key - and at no additional computational cost.

-Dave




From clpy at snakefarm.org  Fri Mar 15 17:40:22 2002
From: clpy at snakefarm.org (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:40:22 +0100
Subject: Pretty Integers
References: <mailman.1016219557.5384.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C927856.6F48EC69@snakefarm.org>

Lindstrom Greg - glinds wrote:
> 
> I would like to add commas to the integers I am writing (for example:
> 12345678 --> 12,345,678).  I have a fairly ugly method that relies heavily
> upon mods, but am convinced there must be a "pretty" way to do it.  How
> would you go about this task?
> 

How about some nice recursion? This is how I do it:

#! /usr/bin/python

def pretty_int(ugly_int):
    if len(ugly_int) <= 3:
        return ugly_int
    return pretty_int(ugly_int[:-3]) + "," + ugly_int[-3:]

ugly_int = 12345678
print pretty_int(str(ugly_int))


cg.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 12 00:59:50 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:59:50 -0500
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com> <slrna8o03d.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C8C02B3.674898B0@engcorp.com>  <3C8C0460.993A4F81@engcorp.com> <slrna8r2ap.343.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <3C8D9956.5920AA52@engcorp.com>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> 
> In article <3C8C0460.993A4F81 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> [...]
> >Just posted to the TDD mailing list, coincidentally:
> >
> > http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html
> >
> >Anyone care to calculate the total for our pet crackpot?  :-)
> 
> Well, I can give a reliable lower limit: 50 points.
> 
> Just see item 32: "50 points for claiming that you have a
> revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions."

With slight paraphrasings for the change in industry from physics 
to computers, we can also add item 31 (40 points) for how "current
programming methods are a sham and we'll see that once autocoding
is finally appreciated", item 29 (40 points) referring to "the 
conspiracy among programmers preventing his work from getting 
its deserved fame", item 21 (20 points) for constant references to
the Matrix, item 14 (10 points) for trying to get us all to do the
work for him, and roughly 473 invocations of each of items 4 (3 
points each) and 3 (2 points each), to wit: logically inconsistent 
and clearly vacuous statements, respectively.

Resulting in a grand total Crackpot Index of about 3471, surely
an all-time record.  Somebody tell John Baez!

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 01:51:31 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:51:31 -0500
Subject: wxPython: generating event IDs?
References: <slrna8lup9.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C8B0273.A3651580@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to figure out a simple way to attach commands to
> buttons in wxPython.  The standard method seems to be
> 
>  1) Define a unique ID number
>  2) Assign that ID number to the button
>  3) Hook a closure to that ID number with EVT_XXXX()
> 
> There must be a way to eliminate the need to predefine unique
> ID numbers.  I hate trying to maintain lists of numbers like
> that (well, more accurately, I'm just bad at it).
> 
> I thought about using the id() of the button, but you don't
> know that until after the button is created, and you need to
> pass the ID in when the button is created.
> 
> There must be a simple solution that I've overlooked...

This little method which I've used inside a wxFrame subclass
demonstrates a slightly simpler approach than "define a unique
ID number".  Note the use of wxNewId() to make that part
trivial.  If you attach your commands to buttons using a 
method you can wrap the little bit of ugliness and never have
to see it again:

    # define menus
    def setupMenus(self, menuList):
        self.mainmenu = wxMenuBar()
        for menuName, menuItems in menuList:
            _menu = wxMenu()
            _menuId = wxNewId()

            for itemName, itemHint, itemMethod in menuItems:
                if itemName == '---':
                    _menu.AppendSeparator()
                elif type(itemName) == type(''):
                    _itemId = wxNewId()
                    _menu.Append(_itemId, itemName, itemHint)
                    EVT_MENU(self, _itemId, getattr(self, itemMethod, self.menuIgnore))

            self.mainmenu.Append(_menu, menuName)

        self.SetMenuBar(self.mainmenu)

        return


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Thu Mar 28 17:22:04 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:22:04 -0000
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:52:45 -0800, Ken Peek
<Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.comNOSPAM> wrote:
>   Well, what do you think?

case:  Don't like it.  We already have means to do what a case does and do it
more elegantly.  It would add a needless redundant portion to the language.

unless: Do a deja search on while 1 on this newsgroup.  It has been hashed to
death.  Short form, while can be manipluated to be any of the special case
loops, until is a special case loops, we should not add things for special
case loops when the generic construct, while, works just fine.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From elflord at panix.com  Fri Mar  1 13:17:09 2002
From: elflord at panix.com (Donovan Rebbechi)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:17:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Scripting C++ -- 2 -- a more concrete example.
References: <3C7E6642.2030202@physics.ucsb.edu> <slrna7tidr.8aq.elflord@panix2.panix.com> <6bf54244.0203010925.38d237ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna7vhd8.98.elflord@panix2.panix.com>

In article <6bf54244.0203010925.38d237ed at posting.google.com>, Craig Maloney wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi <elflord at panix.com> wrote in message news:<slrna7tidr.8aq.elflord at panix2.panix.com>...
>> In article <3C7E6642.2030202 at physics.ucsb.edu>, Craig Maloney wrote:
>> > If using a wrapper generator (e.g. SILOON) I don't see a way around the 
>> > marshalling of the call to get at the atom data structure.
>> 
>> I don't really understand exactly what the problem is. 
>> > 
>> > Of course, this would be taken care of by a revamp of the design of the 
>> > class library... maybe making the crystal an atom factory that produces 
>> > new atoms in its own address space.  But I would like to avoid thinking 
>> 
>> Now I'm really confused. If you're not using CORBA, the atoms are in the
>> same address space, aren't they ?
> 
> This is how I presumed that Boost also worked -- I must be mistaken.
> After having seen yours and Ralf's comments, I now have the impression
> that Boost works it's magic differently.
> 
> Perhaps Craig Rasmussen could enlighten us as to how SILOON deals with
> co-location issues such as the one above?
> 
> From the SILOON doc/design.html page :

Looks like SILOON is using some sort of client/server architecture, much like 
CORBA.

Sip, which is what I use, doesn't do this. It simply wraps C++ objects. 
Basically, Python objects are represented in C as PyObject* pointers. What
sip does is create a "derived" struct by aggregating a PyObject, and some 
additional stuff. So in the sip model, you'd just be using wrapped python 
objects.

It's not completely automatic, because there are some choices that can't be
made automatically. For example, there are tricky choices about ownership --
when you call "add", does the object you "add" to want to own a reference 
(bump up the reference count) ? You also do need to add code to return 
python tuples instead of using the C/C++ "return-by-pass-by-pointer" idiom. 

Like I said, even though it's not automatic, you get a good code generation
ratio. Also, even in instances where it's not completely automatic (eg 
exception mapping), you can use generated code as a starting point. I use 
macros to map exceptions, which makes this a very simple process.

Cheers,
-- 
Donovan


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Mar 27 13:32:07 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:32:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <a7svvf$btf$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203271030200.20043-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 27 Mar 2002, Aahz wrote:

> In article <mailman.1017234342.12592.python-list at python.org>,
> Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >Or, in 2.2, the new hotshot module, which is a lot more efficient at
> >profiling than the profile module.
>
> Where is hotshot?  I don't see it anywhere.  It's not even on the Vaults
> of Parnassus.

It's a C module new in 2.2 - see Modules/_hotshot.c.

-Dave




From default_renegade at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 13:52:58 2002
From: default_renegade at yahoo.com (default_renegade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:52:58 -0000
Subject: Trouble running programs 
Message-ID: <a5trea+uhkh@eGroups.com>

Just started learning Python, but having trouble running a programs. 
First, I open IDLE, then open a new window
Then I write a program and save it, then I close the window
When I'm back at the Python Shell and select Run Script It gives me 
an error "Not Saved - The bugger for Python Shell is not saved. 
Please save it first!"
However, I can run the program from the DOS prompt.




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Mar 21 23:18:19 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 06:18:19 +0200
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
References: <mailman.1016754947.17945.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kun0x12q2c.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.1016754947.17945.python-list at python.org>, Geoffrey
Talvola <gtalvola at nameconnector.com> writes:

| I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by themselves if there
| is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?  Is it possible to
| control this behavior?  Just a link to some documentation of this behavior
| would be greatly appreciated.

usually when this happens, it means there is some sort of "stateful
firewall" [sic] or NAT box in the way. if you can find out where
it is and who controls it, it may be possible to alleviate the problem
by increasing the timeout setting. or you can add some sort of
periodical dummy message into your protocol to refresh the memory
of the interloper box.

  -- erno





From justin at iago.org  Tue Mar  5 12:49:05 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:49:05 -0500
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> ("Reginald B.
 Charney"'s message of "Tue, 05 Mar 2002 05:37:37 GMT")
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <x7664azyzy.fsf@ra.iago.org>

"Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:

> In Python, are destructors defined to be invoked in reverse order of
> constructors?

No.

> The following program illustrates the problem:
>
> class HTML:
>     def __init__(self): print "<HTML>"
>     def __del__(self):  print "</HTML>"
>
> class BODY:
>     def __init__(self): print "<BODY>"
>     def __del__(self):  print "</BODY>"
>
> class PHP:
>     def __init__(self): print "<?PHP "
>     def __del__(self):  print "?>"
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     print "Start of program"
>     h = HTML()
>     b = BODY()
>     p = PHP()
>     print "Body should appear before all destructors"

A few comments:

  You really don't want to construct documents that way.  There are a
few good html generation libraries out there, and it is also easy to
roll your own.  Trying to generate documents as a side effect of
object destruction not only won't work, it is a really bad idea.

  Also, I have no idea what makes you think that you are able to know
anything about the order of the destructors.  All three of the
relevant objects here will lose their reference at the same time, so
the order of their destruction is even less determined than usual. <wink>

> Basically, I need to know if the order of destruction is guaranteed to be
> the reverse of construction when reference counts on the objects are the
> same (e.g., 1 on this case). Without this guarantee, I don't understand how
> Python can effectively use destructors - it falls into the same hole as
> Java. For me, this is a show-stopper.

This makes no sense.

When the reference count of an object is nonzero (e.g. 1), the
destructor will not be called at all because the object is not yet
eligible for reclamation.  Order doesn't even come into it.
Destroying an object before its reference count had dropped to zero
would be unsafe and not very sensical.

Perhaps you are using "destructors" to refer to some concept that is
different from what the rest of us use that word for?

-Justin

 




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 28 22:42:01 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 22:42:01 -0500
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a80nq9$l1f$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>class MyClass(BaseClass):
>   def __init__(self):
>      pass
>   def method1(self, a, b, c):
>      pass
>   def method2(self, d, e):
>      pass
>   def method3(self, f): 
>      pass

Where you write "pass", I prefer to write "raise NotImplementedError".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From Francois-regis.Chalaoux at sanofi-synthelabo.com  Mon Mar  4 12:01:04 2002
From: Francois-regis.Chalaoux at sanofi-synthelabo.com (Francois-regis Chalaoux)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:01:04 +0100
Subject: Réf. : Re: R?f. : Re: strange libtk8.3.so: open failed
Message-ID: <"020305011813Z.WT09319. 17*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>

Hi,

I'm back ;-)

>>What is the difference between this command line and the way
>>you tried to use Tk? What is $LD_LIBRARY_PATH in your command line
>>environment?

This is not easy to get information from the administrator and I don't know very well the sun machines ...

In fact, if root uses the /etc/profile, LD_LIBRARY_PATH contain /usr/local/lib; I canread it. Thus on command line *tk* should be imported. Not verify, I'm not root ...

The administrator tells me that a python process through Apache is started by a root daemon, and that its LD_LIBRARY_PATH does not contain /usr/local/lib. I conclude root daemon should have a particular profile somewhere !? Not clear for me.

Why not add this latest path in LD_LIBRARY_PATH for the root deamon if it is the problem ? The administrator tell me it is not a good idea to do that !! 

What do you think ?

FR





phd at phd.pp.ru%internet le 20/02/2002 09:42:30
Veuillez r?pondre ? phd at phd.pp.ru%internet at WTFR
Pour :	Francois-regis Chalaoux/FR-LABEGE/RESEARCH/SANOFI at Research
cc :	python-list at python.org%internet at WTFR 

Objet :	Re: R?f. : Re: strange libtk8.3.so: open failed

Mail-Followup-To: Francois-regis Chalaoux <Francois-regis.Chalaoux at sanofi-synthelabo.com>, python-list at python.org
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i

On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 03:23:08PM +0100, Francois-regis Chalaoux wrote:
> * The sun machine is:
> SunOS lads01 5.8 Generic_108528-03 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-60
> 
> * On command line Dynamic linker find libtk8.3.so and the librairie is there:
> 
> lads01 /tmp/Python-2.1.1 % ldd /usr/local/bin/python
>         libtk8.3.so =>   /usr/local/lib/libtk8.3.so

   Looks good. What is the difference between this command line and the way
you tried to use Tk? What is $LD_LIBRARY_PATH in your command line
environment?

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.






From gcordova at hebmex.com  Fri Mar  8 13:30:11 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:30:11 -0600 
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D6892A@SRM201002>

-Wart?

It's not that ugly, or at least not "argh, the pain!!" kind
of ugly, "it just is".

Of course, it'd be nice to use the Ellipsis to create integer
progressions, like the "Ints" object I sent to the list a few
days ago, but it's only in the "it'd be nice" category, and
if I really want it, I can "from IntsClass import Ints" to
have access to it.

Nothing to patch up the compiler and language for.

-gustavo



From aahzpy at panix.com  Thu Mar 21 15:41:23 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 15:41:23 -0500
Subject: Problem with threads
References: <mailman.1016730160.13553.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7dghj$ro7$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016730160.13553.python-list at python.org>,
Maric <maric.michaud at cirec.com> wrote:
>
>* I want to use TKinter with multi-threads, is there any solution ?

http://www.pythoncraft.com/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From b_mcerlean at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 10:33:55 2002
From: b_mcerlean at yahoo.com (Brian McErlean)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 07:33:55 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <f040c4f9.0203220733.296806a6@posting.google.com>

Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in message news:<slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net>...
> No, and it seems the problem is not with sorting.
> I wanted to write a compact word counting script (well, in shell
> it can be done in a 5 lines or so), just  for fun.
> 
> and
> 
> import string,sys
> 
> 
> a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())
> 
> known = []
> times = 0
> output = {}
> 
> for i in a:
>     if i not in known:
>         for l in a:
>             if l == i:
>                 times = times + 1
>         known.append(i)
>         output[i] = times
>     times = 0
 

The first 3 lines are probably the major performance problem - 
for every element in the list, you are scanning through the list of
words again
(Your algorithm is O(N**2) with regard to the number of words)

Instead, you can do it in one pass, storing the count for each word in
a dictionary( which has approx O(1) (constant time) access.  Words you
haven't
counted yet get put into the dictionary with a count of 1, and
existing words
get their count incremented.  The loop then becomes:

for word in a:
    count = output.get(word, 0) # Get count of word, or 0 if not
present
    output[word] = count + 1    # Increment count.

The output can remain the same:

> items = [ (output[k], k) for k in output ]
> items.sort()
> items.reverse()
> items = [ (k, v) for (v, k) in items ]
> for k in items:
>     print k[0], k[1]
> 
> it seems it's slow not because of sorting...
> 
> Regards,
> Artur

Hope this helps,
Brian.


From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 07:21:43 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:21:43 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEBJDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com> <mailman.1016000422.17645.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1pgu8u4nqjj8hbghv20s9osn9721uhlevg@4ax.com>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:13:50 -0600, "Jason Orendorff"
<jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:

>Keep in mind, though, that the code I wrote creates a huge 2D array
>when it is presented with largeish 1D arrays as arguments.
>
>So if s_vector is 10000 elements and r_vector is 10000 elements,
>then a 800-MB array is created.  If you've got the RAM, this is
>okay; otherwise you're in trouble.

The machine I'm using for my calculations has 2 GB of memory. And the
vectors probably have only about n00-n000 entries.

>Also, does anyone have weave.blitz?  I'd like to see how it does
>compared to the other approaches.

I will try that tomorrow. Which part should I exactly blitz? 

Thanks,

Martin


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 28 21:21:00 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 02:21:00 GMT
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa7gc7.26a.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Sloth wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I've looked at Apache, Xitami, Zope, Medusa, et. al and think they are
> wonderful applications.  On the other hand, they are overkill for what
> I want to be able to do - have Python start a CGI server, serve a
> page, get form data, get data from a database, and display dynamic
> content.  I don't need anything industrial strength, just something
> that can handle a single user.

Maybe it's just me, but I often have difficulties to understand the
point of the "overkill" argument.

> Any thoughts?  I sincerely appreciate everyone's help!

If you can spare 5 megs of RAM and a little disk space, just go for
Apache (or Xitami, or whatever). When you're running the webserver and
are not using it currently, it'll be swapped out anyway, so why
bother?

It's a myth that Apache is complex to get running, here's what you'd
need to do on Windows:

1) Install Python
2) Install Apache
3) edit etc/httpd.conf and add the line

    ScriptInterpreterSource Registry

   at the end of the file.

4) Write your Python CGI scripts in cgi-bin and name them .py

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 28 17:42:24 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:42:24 -0800
Subject: Running zope as a WIN32 service
References: <a8006g$akm$1@news.online.de>
Message-ID: <a806io$ogagi$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

pitbill
> I've installed Zope 2.4 two weeks ago and didn't choose to run Zope as
a
> service :(
> Now I want to run Zope as a service, because I'm bored of starting it
via
> the batch file.
>

from zservice.py:

You can manually install, uninstall the service from
    the commandline.

      ZService.py [options] install|update|remove|start [...]
          |stop|restart [...]|debug [...]

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Mar 28 10:58:26 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:58:26 GMT
Subject: question on struct.calcsize
Message-ID: <3ca33d3f.26101031@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
could anyone explain the following, please.
(Win NT, Python 2.1.1)

>>> from struct import *
>>> calcsize("i")
4
>>> calcsize("s")
1
>>> calcsize("si")
8

Thanks, 
Marcus


From soerense at verwaltung.uni-mainz.de  Wed Mar  6 04:37:12 2002
From: soerense at verwaltung.uni-mainz.de (Ruediger Soerensen)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 10:37:12 +0100
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203050738280.30955-100000@ns0.tbye.com> <86n0xmg2q4.fsf@skitty.catseye.net> <mailman.1015362693.984.python-list@python.org> <a63iec$ba967$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <ytw8z96yr3r.fsf@jorge.verwaltung.uni-mainz.de>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:

> "Cliff Wells"
> > Tim Legant wrote:
> > > Oh, are you from across the pond?  It was either Bronski Beat or the
> > > Communards who did an interesting cover of Ain't Necessarily So in
> the
> > > early '80s - I think both groups were Brits....  It's in more of a
> > > Broadway musical style than country, though.
> >
> > It was Bronski Beat (from "Age of Consent").  I don't recall who did
> the
> > original.
> >
> 
> I'm going bet it's from Porgy & Bess by Gershwin.
> 
> --
> 
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
> 
> ---------
> 

Yes. Sung by "Sportin' Life". There was a great movie where Sammy
Davis jr. played him.

-- 

R?diger "Black Hole" S?rensen || soerense at verwaltung.uni-mainz.de


From tbabbitt at commspeed.net  Thu Mar  7 11:18:38 2002
From: tbabbitt at commspeed.net (Tom Babbitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:18:38 -0700
Subject: wxVTKRenderWindow inside  wxSplitterWindow
References: <3c8772cb.20639421@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <1015518221.284284@news.commspeed.net>

"Marcus Stojek" <stojek at part-gmbh.de> wrote in message
news:3c8772cb.20639421 at news.easynews.net...
> HI,
>
> I want to use a wxSplitterWindow to render two different
> body with VTK. Here is what I tried
>
>
>
>
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> but that didn't work either.
>
> Any idea ?
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
You could try placing panels on the splitter windows and the place the wxVTK
window on the panel (there is some mention of this in the demo code), on the
other hand maybe a sizer will work.

Tom Babbitt




From store_li at sina.com  Thu Mar  7 00:06:05 2002
From: store_li at sina.com (Ricky)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:06:05 +0800
Subject: Is there any wxPython turtor?
References: <a604fb$a6tuc$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de> <3C865341.8D190235@cablespeed.com>
Message-ID: <a66sh5$c2aea$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>

Thank you, I find a lot of resources.

But wxpython.org is still not available for me.
"Michele Moore" <mmoore at cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:3C865341.8D190235 at cablespeed.com...
> Ricky wrote:
>
> > I have downloaded wxPython 2.3. But, I found that the document come with
it
> > is not well enough. Is there any recommended good tutor of wxPython
itself??
> >
> > BTW: I don't know why I can't connect to www.wxpython.org, is it still
> > alive?
>
> You might consider visiting:
> http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/How_20to_20Learn_20wxPython
>
> Most of the actual API documentation is written for the C++ implementation
> underneath, wxWindows, which is very thorough.  Here's a good reference
> for a number of tutorials:   http://www.wxwindows.org/docs2.htm
>
> BTW, I was able to go to http://www.wxpython.org just fine just now.
>
> Michele
>




From maurelius01 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 17:08:55 2002
From: maurelius01 at hotmail.com (Marc)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:08:55 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem simplified
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65@hotmail.com>

I posted this previously but a typo confused the
issue.  I'll be more carefull this time, plus I've
simplified the names.

The issue has to do with using reload and
inheritance, specifically having two classes in
two different files inheriting from a base class
in another file.  Or maybe it's just inheriting
and reloading, I haven't gone through the many
permutations, but here's a simple example that
doesn't work.

I'm using Windows NT, Python 1.5.2, and IDLE 0.5

************************
file a01.py

class a:

    def __init__(self):
        self.name  = 'a'

************************
file b01.py

import a01
reload(a01)
class b(a01.a):
    def __init__(self):
        self.name = 'b'
        a01.a.__init__(self)

************************
file c01.py

import a01
reload(a01)
class c(a01.a):
    def __init__(self):
        self.name = 'c'
        a01.a.__init__(self)


************************
file atest01.py

import b01
reload(b01)
import c01
reload(c01)

B = b01.b()
C = c01.c()
print 'done'

*************************
running atest01 (F5 in IDLE) give the traceback:
>>> 
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File
"D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\atest01.py",
line 7, in ?
    B = b01.b()
  File
"D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\b01.py", line
8, in __init__
    a01.a.__init__(self)
TypeError: unbound method must be called with
class instance 1st argument

If I don't have the reload in c01.py and b01.py
eveything works fine. 

Any ideas.  Does anyone else find the same
behavior here?

Thanks, Marc


From bosahv at netscapenospam.net  Thu Mar 28 00:16:38 2002
From: bosahv at netscapenospam.net (Bo Vandenberg)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:16:38 GMT
Subject: Zope Install probs on Mandrake 8.2
Message-ID: <WGxo8.83$m12.69@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

I'm trying to install Zope from source on a fresh install of Mandrake 8.2.
I'd appreciate it if anyone here has advice for this.


"python wo_pcgi.py" fails building the extension modules saying "cannot stat
`/usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile.pre.in': No such file or directory.

This is indead true.

Is there something a beginner should do at this point?

Zope claims to run on python 2.1 will it run on 2.2???

Thanks in advance.




From lluang at northwestern.edu  Sun Mar 24 00:40:57 2002
From: lluang at northwestern.edu (Louis Luangkesorn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:40:57 -0600
Subject: using os.execl to call a java application
Message-ID: <3C9D66E9.4070802@northwestern.edu>

Hello:

I am trying to use Python to call a Java application with parameters and 
I am trying to use os.execl to do this.  When I am at the command line, 
the following works:

C:\docs\ibmmodelswitch>c:\jdk1.3\bin\java depmmk1 22.0 20.0 10.0 0.0 0.0 
20 20 5 5 5 
5                                                                         
0.009888807988285522

But when I try to call this from Python using os.execl, I get

  File "C:\docs\gmcode\prob4.py", line 74, in findrqsim
    os.path('c:\\docs\\ibmmodelswitch')
TypeError: object of type 'module' is not callable
 >>>
Lines 73 and 74 are as follows:
os.path('c:\\docs\\ibmmodelswitch')
rab[i,j] = 
os.execl('c:\\jdk1.3\\bin\\java','depmmk1',`itemmu[0]`,`itemmu[1]`,`itemlambda[0]`,`itemlambda[1]`,`itemlambda[2]`,`itemn[0]`,`itemn[1]`,`itemQ[0]`,`itemQ[1]`,`itemreorder[0]`,`itemreorder[1]`)

I've tried to use the full path for 'depmmk1' in the os.execl() call. 
 I've tried using one '\'\ for the directory, I've also tried to have 
the second arguement 'depmmk1.class'.  The following also fails:

            os.path('c:\\docs\\ibmmodelswitch')
            rab[i,j] = os.execl('c:\\jdk1.3\\bin\\java','depmmk1')

Anyone help?  Or is there an even better way to do this?

The next question I'm going to have is how to get a result from my Java 
application into Python.  I can use a text file write/read, but if there 
is a more elegant way of doing this I'd appreciate hearing about it. 
 Thank you much.

Louis
By the way, what I really want to do is this:
            os.path('c:\\docs\\ibmmodelswitch')
            rab[i,j] = 
os.execl('c:\\jdk1.3\\bin\\java','depmmk1',`itemmu[0]`,`itemmu[1]`,`itemlambda[0]`,`itemlambda[1]`,`itemlambda[2]`,`itemn[0]`,`itemn[1]`,`itemQ[0]`,`itemQ[1]`,`itemreorder[0]`,`itemreorder[1]`)

Which gives the same error.

Louis

-- 
K Louis Luangkesorn
lluang at northwestern.edu  http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~kll560  PGP:0xF3E2D362

Whatsoever things are true, ... honest, ... just, ... pure, ... lovely, ... of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.  
     - motto - Northwestern University




From drevenhaug at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 11 10:31:55 2002
From: drevenhaug at hotmail.com (Graz Bukanoff)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 07:31:55 -0800
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
Message-ID: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>

Is Python an object based programming langauge?


From theller at python.net  Mon Mar  4 11:51:54 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:51:54 +0100
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
References: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a608p5$anptk$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
> Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
> default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
> without drowning.

2 ways AFAIK:
1. Install 2.2, then 2.1.2 *again*

2. Install 2.2, then change the file associations to use 2.1.2.

Thomas




From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Mar 28 16:02:42 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 22:02:42 +0100
Subject: rexec:  I don't seem to understand "nok_builtin_names"
References: <39503ed5.0203281151.25d2cdda@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91DFE068F41A5cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

danielm at cronus.res.cmu.edu (Dan Moskowitz) wrote in
news:39503ed5.0203281151.25d2cdda at posting.google.com: 
> Can someone tell me why execing "open" works, but not "len"?
> 
>>>> from rexec import RExec
>>>>
>>>> class MyRExec(RExec):
> ...     nok_builtin_names = RExec.nok_builtin_names + ("len",)
> ...
>>>> r = MyRExec()
>>>> print 'invisible names: '+`r.nok_builtin_names`
> invisible names: ('open', 'reload', '__import__', 'len')
>>>> r.r_exec('open')
>>>> r.r_exec("len('foo')")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/local/depot/python2/lib/python2.1/rexec.py", line 264, 
in
>   r_exec 
>     exec code in m.__dict__
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'len' is not defined

because "open" is bound to a restricted replacement function:
>>> r.r_exec('print open')
<bound method MyRExec.r_open of <__main__.MyRExec instance at 
0x010BB288>>

see the rexec documentation for more details about the restricted 
"open" the same aplies to the other builtins, they're replaced with 
limited versions.

chris


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 16:11:06 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:06 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B9DEA.3AF92183@ccvcorp.com>


Artur Skura wrote:

> for i in a:
>     if i not in known:
>         for l in a:
>             if l == i:
>                 times = times + 1
>         known.append(i)
>         output[i] = times
>     times = 0
>
> it seems it's slow not because of sorting...

Yes, you're scanning through the file once for *each* word you find, just to
count occurences.  Try this instead:

words = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())

wordcount = {}

for word in words:
    wordcount[word] = wordcount.get(word, 0) + 1

items = [ (value, key) for key, value in wordcount.items()  ]
items.sort()
items.reverse()
#  items = [ (k, v) for (v, k) in items ]
#  Why bother with the above??

for count, word in items:
    print word, count

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From benji_york at cal-na.com  Fri Mar 22 17:33:42 2002
From: benji_york at cal-na.com (Benji York)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 14:33:42 -0800
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <59667b81.0203221433.261c8210@posting.google.com>

nico at aries.logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) wrote in message news:<slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico at aries.logilab.fr>...
> I'd like to entertain you with a new subject: logic programming and
> constraint-propagation features in Python.

I would be very interested in a finite domain constraint slover
in/connected-to Python.

though-not-volunteering-to-implement-it-<wink>-ly y'rs

Benji York


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 11:12:48 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:12:48 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <mailman.1017394184.8725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA49280.BF6B6C40@engcorp.com>

FREDRIK HULDTGREN wrote:
> 
> On a side note, what does PEP stand for?, Ive been seeing it all over
> the mails but I have no clue what it is.
> :)

Why not try Google?

http://www.google.com/search?q=pep+python


From cfelling at iae.nl  Mon Mar  4 23:28:08 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 05:28:08 +0100
Subject: chopping a string
References: <m3bse3j1e4.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <a61hgo$8hv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

David Bear <iddwb at moroni.pp.asu.edu> wrote:

> there's gotta be an easier way.  I have a string 
> 

> note the leading a trailing whitespace.  I'd like to grab the first
> word and strip whitespace.  I came up with

>  string.join(string.split(string.strip(str))[:1])

This looks very complicated, maybe you just ment:

   >>> string.split("    something  somethingelse    ", maxsplit=1)[0]
   'something'

To get the same effect with string methods be ware that you'll have to
specify None as seperator to get the special space treatment:

   >>> "    something  somethingelse    ".split(None, maxsplit=1)[0]
   'something'

The maxsplit=1 is there to speed things up, it stops after the first split.





-- 
groetjes, carel


From jeffbi at jetsoft.com  Fri Mar 29 12:23:45 2002
From: jeffbi at jetsoft.com (Jeff Bienstadt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:23:45 -0800
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <slrnaa93j2.kqo.ak@ak.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <3ca4a322@news.nwlink.com>

"Andrei Kulakov" <ak at silmarill.org> wrote in message
news:slrnaa93j2.kqo.ak at ak.silmarill.org...
> In article <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>, Steve Holden
wrote:
> > "Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
> > message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
> >> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
> >> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
> >> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
> >> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> >> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> >> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> >> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
> >
> > I'd really like to see a Python mail/newsreader. That would teach you a
lot,
> > and keep you busy for a while...
> >
> I'd like to second that. I use slrn and mutt and they're pretty good but
> I'd hack on a few things, polish rough edges, etc if they were written
> in python. A program that tries to do both probably won't be very good
> at either, if I were you I'd either make a news or - an email reader.
>
>  - Andrei

I've just recently started working on a newsreader in Python (it was the
underlying reason behind my earlier "IntSpan" posts).  It's not much
further along than the idea stage at this point, since I'm trying to
sandwich it in between several other projects, but I have a few lines of
experimental code that uses nntplib.

I'm doing this primarily as a way to learn Python (why start small :->),
but also so that I can have a news reader that
   a) works
   b) runs on both my Linux and Windows boxen
   c) isn't Outlook Express

If anybody is interested in joining me on this, or just interested in
hearing some of my thoughts on the subject, e-mail me --- I love
collaborative projects.

---jkb





From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Mar  1 09:27:18 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:27:18 -0500
Subject: ASV module, CVS modules
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com> <3C7F4014.7090800@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F8FC6.8090500@wi.mit.edu>

Michael Str?der wrote:

> John Machin wrote:
> 
>>
>> You 2: On Windows, either use forward slashes "c:/test_data.csv" (it
>> works!)
> 
> 
> AFAIK this does not work on W2K anymore. I might be wrong.
> 


It does on my system at least.

file = open("c:/test_data.csv", "wb")


> Ciao, Michael.
> 


Brian Kelley



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 04:02:48 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:02:48 +0000
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <mailman.1017029236.6829.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <LaEDRVA4eun8EwQX@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1017029236.6829.python-list at python.org>, Delaney,
Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> writes
.......
>>   import types
>>   if type(__import__) == types.BuiltinFunctionType:
>>     ...
>
>Except that this will only tell you that it's of the same type as the
>original __import__ - someone still may have replaced the builtin __import__
>before you get a go at it.
>
>In general, it shouldn't matter whether it is the builtin __import__ or not
>- why do you need to know? If you wish to replace it with your own version,
>you should just capture the original version and replace it with your own.
>To do this in a thread-safe manner you should probably use the canonical
>"swap" idiom ...
>
>import __builtin__
>
>def _my_import (name, globals, locals, fromlist):
>    pass
>
>_orig_import, __builtin__.__import__ = __builtin__.__import__, _my_import
>
>print _orig_import
>print __builtin__.__import__
>
>Tim Delaney
>
Gordon McMillan's original archive_rt had code to detect the original so
it could apply its startup. It's reasonable to suppose that this is
quite hard since I am attempting to do this in the middle of starting up
Python itself and as I have a compressed archive I can't gurantee access
to stuff like warning.py types.py etc at the time of the test. There's
probably a more direct way to test this though since I know exactly when
the test is taking place and should succeed. 
-- 
Robin Becker


From dominikush at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 06:48:45 2002
From: dominikush at yahoo.com (dominikush)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:48:45 -0000
Subject: How to access DataObject retrieved from win32clipboard?
Message-ID: <a6q2mt+e7h2@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I copied some graphical elements from Powerpoint to the clipboard.
My aim is to convert the clipboard data to png and store the image
in a file. The problem is that I retrieve a DataObject from 
win32clipboard and I do not understand how to continue from there.
Can somebody help me out here?

>>> import win32clipboard
>>> win32clipboard.OpenClipboard(0)
>>> win32clipboard.EnumClipboardFormats(0)
49161

A strange data format. So, let's find out what it is:

>>> win32clipboard.GetClipboardFormatName(49161)
'DataObject'

So, let's try to get the `DataObject' from the clipboard:

>>> data = win32clipboard.GetClipboardData(49161)
>>> data
'\xb8\x02\x05\x00'

Ups, what's this? Looks like an identifier/handle to `DataObject'.
But where's the object? How do I resolve the identifier? Any
suggestions?

Best regards,

Dominikus




From swojqh at comcast.net  Thu Mar  7 19:32:04 2002
From: swojqh at comcast.net (swojqh at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:32:04 GMT
Subject: 5 dollar emails
Message-ID: <8ETh8.84681$pN4.6393667@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

Please check out 5 dollars an email...I earned over $850.00 last month simply by using this program. This company is free to join. You can get paid and earn prizes for surfing,reading email,t aking surveys, chatting and playing games. To read all about the program,you must click on the link and sign up. there are no obligations Just click on the link on the mail and it will take you to the sign-up page in a new window. Remember to refer all your friends, as this is how you will make more money. 
GOTO http://www.5DollarEmails.com/cgi-bin/signup.cgi?r=prowler00x at comcast.net



From jeetkunedoh at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 10:33:56 2002
From: jeetkunedoh at yahoo.com (J York)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 07:33:56 -0800
Subject: mailman fails to deliver messages due to error
Message-ID: <1a3ddea5.0203220733.6ffe40a8@posting.google.com>

I'm having a problem with Mailman not delivering the vast majority of
the messages that get sent to it.  It receives the messages and stores
them safely in qfiles.  Then qrunner attempts to deliver those
messages, then dies after a few are sent.

>From the log files:

$ cat qrunner
Mar 22 08:46:03 2002 (11484) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Mar 22 08:48:02 2002 (11568) Unlinking orphaned .db file:
/home/mailman/qfiles/fbe8be0863231742102ffc6280894a3369d11118.db
Mar 22 08:49:01 2002 (11731) Could not acquire qrunner lock
$ cat error
Mar 22 08:48:02 2002 qrunner(11568): Traceback (most recent call
last):
Mar 22 08:48:02 2002 qrunner(11568):   File
"/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 282, in ?
Mar 22 08:48:02 2002 qrunner(11568):      kids = main(lock)
Mar 22 08:48:02 2002 qrunner(11568):   File
"/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 202, in main
Mar 22 08:48:02 2002 qrunner(11568):      os.unlink(root+'.db')
Mar 22 08:48:02 2002 qrunner(11568): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file
or directory: '/home/mailman/qfiles/fbe8be0863231742102ffc6280894a3369d11118.db'
$ 

Qrunner is set to startup every minute.  But I can watch the error log
file and process list and watch qrunner die shortly after the above
error.  Like clockwork.

When I check to see if the above file is there, it is not.

Any ideas?

My specs:
Solaris 2.8
Python 2.1.1 (compiled w/ gcc 3.0.1)
Mailman 2.0.8

Thanks
J York


From jcromwell at ciena.com  Fri Mar  8 13:26:00 2002
From: jcromwell at ciena.com (Cromwell, Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:26:00 -0800 
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
Message-ID: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>

PEP 276 (Simple Iterator for ints) and PEP 284 (Integer for-loops), among
others, are written from the perspective that the current integer for-loop
syntax

    for i in range(10):

is a wart.  Is this true?  That is, where does the Python community stand on
this issue?

If you will, please start your response by placing your description of the
syntax in one of these categories.

-Major wart
This is painful to type and I would support almost any type of improvement.

-Wart
I don't like the current syntax and would like to see an improvement, but I
could care less.

-Wart?
What's wrong with it?  I guess it could be improved but I never thought
about it.

-Not a wart
This is the most pythonic way to write an integer for loop.  I would oppose
almost any change.

Not to bias the results, but I'd be just as interested to hear from the
"Wart?" group as any other.

References
PEP 276, Simple Iterator for ints
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0276.html
PEP 284, Integer for-loops
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0284.html

-Jeremy Cromwell



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Mar 11 07:55:21 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:55:21 +0000
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <9v9p8us7kk8pp7q7l8m1g4gio1sv19ov11@4ax.com>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:20:07 +0000, Eric Brunel
<eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Found the following link on comp.lang.tcl. A bit long, but worth reading...
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3B40A4A7.6E39BD%40brad-aisa.com&rnum=1
>
>Regards,
> - eric -


It does not surprise me at all, it's in line with Microsoft's general
policy up to date.

Of Microsoft products in general, the best I have to say is repeat Dr.
Samuel Johnson's quip to an author,

"Your manuscript is both good and original; but the parts that are good
are not original, and the parts that are original are not good."


From kragen at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 13:40:52 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 13:40:52 -0500
Subject: Process to process synchronization (unix)
References: <a6tn83$nh6$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <83pu20ieob.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> writes:
> I have a Zope application and another running process (in python too).
> I need to transmit data and signal (hey ! data available, do your job !) in
> an asynchronous way from the Zope app (in an external method) to the python
> running process (that runs for another user).
> The other process waits for the signal, takes given data, does the jobs and
> waits further signal (...)
> I'm 99.9% newbie in process to process communication.
> What packages are helpful for this ?

Why don't you use os.popen("otherprogram", "w") from Zope to start the
other program, then write to the pipe whenever there is data
available?

Maybe that's not possible because of the way the other program starts
and you have to use named pipes or sockets.  But this would be simpler
if it is possible.



From janez.jere at void.si  Sun Mar 10 18:32:00 2002
From: janez.jere at void.si (Janez Jere)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:32:00 +0100
Subject: Zope stdin
Message-ID: <3C8BECF0.30207@void.si>

HHi,
could anyone help me port my simple cgi to zope script. Problem which I 
am unable to solve is reading posted raw data (legacy client posts a xml 
document to my cgi and expects a result).

Among all my attempts the closest solutions are:
request.get(BODY) # BODYFILE a
and
request.stdin.read() # but it is not allowed to access read method.

#echo cgi
import sys, os
length = os.environ['CONTENT_LENGTH']
print 'Content-Type: text/plain'
print
print sys.stdin.read(int(length))

Thank for help.
Janez



From maurelius01 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 23 11:39:46 2002
From: maurelius01 at hotmail.com (Marc)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:39:46 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem simplified
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65@hotmail.com> <a7gdiv$1oc$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9C0B45.E3C51B0C@hotmail.com> <a7hap8$55f$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CAFD2.13FE372D@hotmail.com>


Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <3C9C0B45.E3C51B0C at hotmail.com>,
> Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Aahz wrote:
> >> In article <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65 at hotmail.com>,
> >> Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I'm using Windows NT, Python 1.5.2, and IDLE 0.5
> >>
> >> Try switching to Python 2.1.2 or 2.2; I'm sure that reload() has had
> >> some changeds.
> >
> >OK, I've just tried Python 2.2 and IDLE 0.8.  Same problem.
> >
> >This really seems quite mysterious?  I'm surprised that others haven't
> >run into this.  I'm sure I'm not the first person to use reload, or the
> >first to inherit from a class into different files.
> 
> Not many people do use reload(), in my experience.  I'm pretty
> knowledgeable about Python, I think, and I've been pretty regular on
> comp.lang.python for almost three years.  It's not interesting enough to
> me personally to invest much of my time, I'm afraid.  ;-)  I still
> haven't seen any clear explanation from you for why you need to use
> reload() in the first place.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> 
> "We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
> Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


I'm wondering whether or not this is a bug, which
I would report, or whether I'm doing something
incorrectly.  I can accept that others don't use
reload much, but it seems that identifying bugs in
the language is good for the language, or
identifying known errors in my usage is good for
me.

For myself, I use reload all the time.  Here's an
example.  For my current task, I'm analysing large
data sets (~.01-30 GB), never doing the same
analysis twice.  This involves many steps, and a
complete analysis takes alot of time about 20
minutes - 50+ hours.  Most of this is done using
old classes that I've written in different files
and many of these inherit from base classes in
other files.  

The goal is to write an analysis script and let it
run, but, of course, it rarely works straight
away.  I run stuff from IDLE.  If the analysis
bombs, I can catch the exception and pickup where
I left off without losing what I've already done: 
IDLE just waits for me to notice the exception,
then using reload, I can modify the classes that
caused the problem, even a base class that I wrote
written 4 years ago and is ten layers deep in an
inheritance tree, or using numbered DLLs I can
even modify a C extension on the fly, all without
losing anything.  Then just rerun, picking up
where I left off.  This is great, and I don't want
to give it up.  I can't see a reanable way to
restart python every time I have an error.

Anyway, I know this hasn't revived your interest
in reload.  I expect it's use is very task
specific.  I've found it extremely useful.

Marc


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Mar  8 01:28:45 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 17:28:45 +1100
Subject: Web scripting with Python (My 2nd post!)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com> <LsCh8.342$Gi.251057@news0.telusplanet.net> <40c3f5da.0203070720.6ca52e4@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0203071034.795308e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3elivmv36.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.net> writes:

Paul> Writing a Web application framework is one of those things that
Paul> looks easy enough at first - how hard can it be to do a CGI
Paul> wrapper after all? The problem is, after experiencing the low
Paul> cost of entry with Python, the tasks just get harder and consume
Paul> more of your effort than the application you were wanting to
Paul> write.

I couldn't agree more.  While writing the toolkit is fun, it is not
until you try to use the toolkit for a real application that you
realise what needs to be done.  That is when you start losing hair
bigtime.

Paul> How do you do user sessions properly? How do you authenticate
Paul> users? Some frameworks already provide these kinds of facilities
Paul> without dictating how your application is going to turn out.

The approach I took here was to leave it mostly up the the user.
Security is one of those things that you are never going to get right
for all users in a toolkit.

Paul> Starting out at a low level is exactly the kind of trap that too
Paul> many projects fall into, producing a few 0.0.x releases before
Paul> disappearing into the void.

I suspect that is when the developers realise the scope of the task
they have undertaken.  I hate to think of the amount of time/money it
has cost us to develop our small toolkit.

Paul> And that's just desktop applications - the added amusements of
Paul> Web framework development include things like security, which
Paul> one might think is easy to address, but it's usually far better
Paul> to use trusted security techniques than think up schemes of your
Paul> own.

Amen.

Paul> I'll accept that some frameworks have a perspective that can
Paul> seem hard to share with the developers, and others are under
Paul> fairly major and continuous development, but with all the
Paul> existing Web frameworks out there, I'm starting to believe that
Paul> we don't really need many more, let alone ones which might never
Paul> approach getting finished.

I agree.  The reason that we developed our toolkit was that we could
not find a serious alternative to Zope.  We needed something that we
could hand over to a customer who would/could not grok Zope.
Albatross is the third generation of that toolkit.  As long as our
company is operating, we will be maintaining and developing the
toolkit.

Paul> But don't let me stand in your way. ;-)

Even if the toolkit never sees the light of day, you will learn a lot
while trying to build it.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  5 04:34:37 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:34:37 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1015178825.27707.python-list@python.org> <a5t3f9.3vsf871.1@kserver.org> <Xns91C7AA1AE38AEdenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.25>
Message-ID: <uofi32w3j.fsf@python.net>

Dennis Roark <denro at NSPAMearthlink.net> writes:

> First books in C++ are mostly a dissappointing lot,

There may be a reason for this.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I also feel it essential to note, [...], that Description Logics,
  non-Monotonic Logics, Default Logics and Circumscription Logics 
  can all collectively go suck a cow. Thank you.
              -- http://advogato.org/person/Johnath/diary.html?start=4


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Fri Mar  1 15:55:37 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:55:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mult-indexed xrange?
Message-ID: <slrna7vqm8.13q.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

The generator facility in 2.2 allows me to do something cool that I always
wanted: looping around multiple indices with just one for-statement, as the
following code does.  Is this available with some built-in functions?
Should we suggest that the definition of range and xrange be thus extended?

Huaiyu


# code example and output
def multixrange(N):
	t = type(N)
	x = [0]*len(N)
	while 1:
		yield t(x)
		for i in xrange(len(N)-1, -1, -1):
			if x[i] < N[i]-1:
				x[i] += 1
				break
			else:
				x[i] = 0
		else:
			raise StopIteration

if __name__ == '__main__':
	for x in multixrange((2,3,2)):
		print x
	for x in multixrange([2,4]):
		print x

"""
Outputs:
(0, 0, 0)
(0, 0, 1)
(0, 1, 0)
(0, 1, 1)
(0, 2, 0)
(0, 2, 1)
(1, 0, 0)
(1, 0, 1)
(1, 1, 0)
(1, 1, 1)
(1, 2, 0)
(1, 2, 1)
[0, 0]
[0, 1]
[0, 2]
[0, 3]
[1, 0]
[1, 1]
[1, 2]
[1, 3]
"""


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Mon Mar 11 03:30:03 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:30:03 -0800
Subject: Python Equivalent of Perl's Safe module?
References: <mailman.1015833318.19894.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6gtqb.3vsdg33.1@kserver.org>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:06:49 -0800, John Beppu <beppu at ax9.org> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1015833318.19894.python-list at python.org>:

> 
> Hello, I was wondering if there was a Python equivalent of Perl's Safe
> module.  Here is the beginning of the man page for Perl's Safe.
> 
> 
>     NAME
> 	Safe - Compile and execute code in restricted compartments
> 

Perhaps one of these is what you're looking for?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-Bastion.html

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-rexec.html

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From tom at peresys.co.za  Fri Mar  1 09:52:09 2002
From: tom at peresys.co.za (Tomasz Stochmal)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 06:52:09 -0800
Subject: ADO GetRows() example for newbies
Message-ID: <f20ea932.0203010652.1045b7ff@posting.google.com>

#ADO GetRows() example

import win32com.client
import pprint

def main():
        ConnectionString = 'Provider=SQLOLEDB.1' \
            +';Data Source=127.0.0.1' \
            +';Initial Catalog=ZASecurities' \
            +';User ID=sa' \
            +';Password='

        SQL='SELECT TOP 1 * FROM TESTCASE'

        DBConnection=win32com.client.Dispatch('ADODB.Connection')        
        DBConnection.Open(ConnectionString) 
        try:
            rs=win32com.client.Dispatch('ADODB.Recordset')
            rs.Open(SQL,DBConnection)
            try:
                # Info Row: Field Name/Type
                result=[]
                buf=[]
                for i in range(rs.Fields.Count):
                    buf.append([rs.Fields.Item(i).Name,rs.Fields.Item(i).Type])
    
                result.append(buf)
    
                # Data Rows
                if not rs.EOF:
                    data=rs.GetRows()
                    assert len(data) > 0
                    data=[[r[col] for r in data] for col in range(len(data[0]))]
                    result.extend(data)
            finally:
                rs.Close()
    
            pprint.pprint(result)
        finally:
            DBConnection.Close()


if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()


# Change ConnectionString & SQL


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 13 12:01:51 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 18:01:51 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <m3pu28v1ts.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

> This could also just be a sign that there is interrest, but the people
> using win32all might not be able to publish a build themself?
> 
> Not everybody is as knowledgable as Mark, Even though we work on the
> superior Windows platform ;-)

That is part of my complaint (or analysis), though: I certainly don't
expect that every user of Python or a Python port also is expert for
Python's internals. I would hope that a significant user community
would grow experts beyond the initial authors. This has happened for
Python, and this is also what Eric Raymond reports as the basis for
the "publish early, publish often" strategy. *Somebody* needs to get
involved, or contribute - else the author gets (rightfully, IMO) the
impression that he's left alone.

Regards,
Martin



From ak at silmarill.org  Fri Mar 29 13:35:30 2002
From: ak at silmarill.org (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:35:30 GMT
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <mailman.1017415785.13436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa9d2i.m26.ak@ak.silmarill.org>

In article <mailman.1017415785.13436.python-list at python.org>, cruciatuz wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:20:33AM +0000, Fused wrote:
> 
>> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
>> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
>> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
>> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
> a programming game like realtimebattle, written entirely in python,
> would be very cool.
>
As far as games go, these would all be nice in python:

nethack, fantasy general, subspace, isometric view RPG engine (like
fallout's), civ, heroes of might and magic.. Okay, that'll do for now,
if you make these I'll think of more :-)

Another nice project would be a useful window manager. There's already
PLWM in python, but it's very basic.

> 
> have a look at:
> 
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/realtimebattle/
> 
> ... if you're interested
> 
> 
> 2 things:
> 
> - other programmers (newbies like me) can learn functional programming
>   in python while building own bots (movement algo's etc.)
> 
> - it doens't need to be a "war-game", it can also simulate bots in other
>   situations (it would be great if there would be a map with different 
>   things on it, and the bot has to move around, climb, swim and so on -
>   but it has to be programmed before _how_ he should do that and which
>   parts (item-classes) he should use.)
> 
> - every main part of the bot's body should be a python-object in a main
>   bot object - these objects will be manipulated while the bot is trying
>   to solve the map.
> 
> - the bot who is the fastest in solving an arena, will be the winner.
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 05:52:52 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:52:52 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl> <mailman.1017531707.15330.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3it7dm2kb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Paul Sidorsky <paulsid at shaw.ca> writes:

> to the new style.  If this is going to be done anyhow, why not at least
> force people it to be done right the first time?  

There are guidelines for language evolution (PEP 5). Those mandate
that incompatible changes get a warning period, before outright
breaking code.

If booleans are introduced in the way the PEP suggests, but would
*not* interact with numbers in the way proposed, PEP 5 would be
clearly violated. Also, there are strong opinions on both sides: some
people actually like booleans to interact with numbers in the way
Python does it.

So phasing out those interactions would be another PEP, one that
cannot complete before Python 2.7 or so.

Regards,
Martin


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Tue Mar 26 02:39:05 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:39:05 GMT
Subject: starting a python program from within xemacs
References: <1017098019.357959@DS9.ai-lab.fh-furtwangen.de>
Message-ID: <a7p8ip$a2n$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <1017098019.357959 at DS9.ai-lab.fh-furtwangen.de>, Marco Herrn wrote:

> Hi there,

> sorry if this is the wrong newsgroup to ask, but I tried in
> comp.emacs.xemacs and nobody could help me, probably because too few
> people there code in python :-)

> I develop a program that uses the curses library in xemacs. But for
> testing my program I have to save it in xemacs, switch to a terminal and
> call python myprog.py. Because I use curses, a C-c C-c doesn't work
> because the xemacs output window isn't capable of using curses.

> Is there a way to execute the content of my current xemacs buffer in a
> terminal/x-terminal?

> Bye
> Marco

> -- 
> Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net

 More to the point, is there a way to direct the Python curses module
 to use an alternative terminal/device?  This would be handy for 
 other situations as well (for example when running interactively 
 via idle or from an xterm or a Linux/FreeBSD virtual console).  It
 would be nice to have the interactive prompt and output decoupled
 from the "user's" I/O --- especially when playing with the curses
 module.

 I suppose I could try reading the Python curses sources and looking
 for the place where it sets up its terminal context.  We might be able
 to add a hook therein, a check for a magic environment variable like
 PYTHONTERMINAL or some such.  It just hasn't hurt enough for me to 
 chase down that rat hole.



From grante at visi.com  Fri Mar 15 12:32:59 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:32:59 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]> <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ffqk8.25854$N7.5409309@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list at python.org>, Rich Cook wrote:
> At 10:57 AM -0600 3/15/02, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>>     Rich> I don't really need select to block.  I just want it to be
>>     Rich> accurate.  If it returns a file object in the list of things which
>>     Rich> are available, why should then readline() block on it?
>>
>>Remember that select() is lower level than readline().  As
>>someone else pointed out, select() may return because there is
>>data available, but it makes no promises about what that data
>>is.  Calling readline() may then hang waiting for other
>>conditions (presence of a newline in the input, for example).
> 
> So do I have to read the data byte by byte using read(1) and
> examine each character to avoid blocking? Is there any way to
> find out how much data is actually waiting for me in the file
> object so I can read it in bigger increments, or must I call
> select then read(1) for every byte?

You don't have to read it 1 byte at a time. Just call
f.read(1024) and it will give you however many bytes are
available, up to the max of 1024.  You can use a max different
than 1024 if you want.

> The reason I'm concerned is that I have two file objects (childerr 
> and fromchild, actually) and I want to know right away if one has 
> data.  So I can't just call read on either one, because I may get 
> blocked on one waiting for data from the other.  But I'd like to 
> avoid the char-by-char read if possible.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. this must be what
                                  at               it's like to be a COLLEGE
                               visi.com            GRADUATE!!


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Mar 16 00:45:57 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:45:57 -0000
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1016173476.645562@yasure> <2b57f654.0203151021.7f709e4c@posting.google.com> <a6tic4$uke$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <2b57f654.0203151908.33413282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1016257555.708754@yasure>

Quoth wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef):
...
| Here's what I mean.  If I do a select.select() and it says, "there's
| data," then I do a readline() on the file object, but select() was
| talking about 2 lines of data, I will lose a line of data, because my
| next select() will say "nothing left."  Is that right?  Because the
| call to readline() somehow scarfs up all the data available and saves
| it for my next call to readline()?  If that's so, then readline()
| sucks, because I should have a way to query it to avoid blocking. 
| Obviously select() and readline() just don't play ball together very
| well...

That's right.  I hesitate to say that you would "lose" input lines
that way, but I suppose something you don't know you have is as good
as lost.  Indeed, there should be a way to query the C stdio buffer.

|> The point with file descriptor is to use system I/O functions on the
|> device, and avoid buffered C I/O.  Basically because select is a
|> system I/O function.  If there were a C analogue to select, then you
|> could use it with C buffered file objects, but there is no such thing.
|> 
|> When select tells you "this thing is ready to read", it means the
|> device is ready for a system level read(), as in os.read(fd, bufsize).
|> So do that, and you'll get what select was telling you about.  It's
|> really simple.  The rules are the same, if you get an empty string
|> it's at "end of file" (the pipe closed.)
|
| I just want to be sure I understand this.  You're saying that
| os.read() somehow get what select.select() was talking about, but that
| f.fromchild.readline() will read less than that?

It might return less than that, yes.  Don't say "somehow" - the
reasons for this are explained above with crystalline clarity.
The system functions like select() and os.read() are as simple as
they could be.  The C stdio functions that Python's file object uses
complicate things by adding a buffer so they can do things like
readline() with reasonable efficiency.

|> I have lost track of what kind of devices we're actually talking about -
|> I'm seeing the word "socket", but then what looks like popen2.Popen3.
|> Note that in Python, sockets are are normally socket objects, with recv()
|> methods etc., but these are unbuffered and recv() is like os.read().
|> Pipes (as created by Popen3) are either integer file descriptors or
|> file objects, there isn't any special system level pipe object.
|> As long as you're on UNIX, there's a certain purity of abstraction here
|> that you can exploit if you want it just to simplify matters - you can
|> get the file descriptor with s.fileno(), and you can use os.read() with
|> that - or you can use sock.recv() if you prefer.
|
| The objects from my original post are popen2.Popen3 objects, as you
| noticed.  The Python lib manual says that os.read() should not be used
| with file objects, even though I can get a file descriptor from them
| with fileno().  Will it work?

Sure.  Look at Popen3 (it's implemented in Python.)  It's working
with file descriptors to start with, then creates file objects from
them to return to the caller.  You're just getting back the file
descriptors.  Don't use them alternately as file objects and then
do system I/O on the file descriptors, that would be foolish for
reasons that you can easily appreciate.

I believe you don't have to worry about the file object going out of
scope and getting closed while you're ignoring it.  That would close
your file descriptor too, but it won't happen because the popen2 module
holds a reference to the Popen3 instance.  If you ever have that problem,
you can dup() a new file descriptor that will survive the file object.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From theller at python.net  Mon Mar 25 13:33:19 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:33:19 +0100
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <a7nqhs$n13nl$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message news:Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1...
> "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in news:a7nhv1$mqa0r$1 at ID-
> 59885.news.dfncis.de:
>
> > All true. On the other hand, Python has no possibility to display
> > or change the owner and access control lists (except if you do some
> > hardcore win32 programming).
>
> It is messy, but not hardcore:
>
> Python to display the owner of a file:
>  os.system("dir /q " + filename)
> Likewise, to display or change the access control list
>  os.system("cacls "+arguments)
> I don't know of an equivalent to change the owner of a file.

I doubt we want to have code like this in the PEP 262 implementation.
Here's what distutils does when copying a file (in file_util.py):

def copy_file(src, dst,
              preserve_mode=1,
              preserve_times=1,
              ...):
    """ [...]
     If 'preserve_mode'
    is true (the default), the file's mode (type and permission bits, or
    whatever is analogous on the current platform) is copied.  If
    'preserve_times' is true (the default), the last-modified and
    last-access times are copied as well. [...]
    """
    ....
            st = os.stat(src)

            # According to David Ascher <da at ski.org>, utime() should be done
            # before chmod() (at least under NT).
            if preserve_times:
                os.utime(dst, (st[ST_ATIME], st[ST_MTIME]))
            if preserve_mode:
                os.chmod(dst, S_IMODE(st[ST_MODE]))

So, for PEP 262, wouldn't it be sufficient to use "<unknown>" as user
(since we don't care), and the value of S_IMODE(st[ST_MODE]) as permission?

Thomas




From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar  6 21:22:47 2002
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:22:47 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <001101c1c57e$fbf6ef20$0334fea9@carol>

>And please avoid the ad-hominems ("too lazy to learn the >language"), it
doesn't contribute to rational debate.

And I would beg you to amend your PEP to remove reference to novice users.
This has become the Mom and Apple Pie of PEP writers.  And I have yet to see
it in the context of the most straight forward meaning - to remove barriers
to learning to program for people motivated to learn to program.

Your evidence is derived from a specialized setting with a specialized
purpose - and not in a setting of  teaching Python programming tasks to
novices.  Your recent post makes that clear.  The PEP does not, and in fact
seems to imply otherwise.


At least at this point I think that the most important thing that could be
done on behalf of novice programmers is for the language to settle in for
some period as to all it basic syntactical structures. Reference books,
tutorials, and sample code are becoming too quickly obsoleted and there is
too much a sense of chasing a moving target.

I would submit, no change to the language I have seen proposed in a PEP does
*anything* significant *for* novices - and only adds to general static.

I don't know how to submit a PEP proposing *no* changes be made at this time
to basic constructs - the PEP I think that would best represent novice
interests. I can though ask PEP writers to be careful and thoughtful in
throwing in any reference to the interests of novices, without at least
explaining the basis - in some particulars - of the claim.

On the other hand, novices want to invest in learning a powerful, versatile
real world language - and are like the rest of the community, (reluctantly)
willing to live with any changes made to the language necessary to more
fully achieve that goal.
So fight it out, please, on that basis alone.

Please.

Art




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sat Mar  2 22:10:21 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:10:21 +0100
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
In-Reply-To: <24c39b2c.0203021850.7679418c@posting.google.com>
References: <24c39b2c.0203021850.7679418c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020303031021.GA5943@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 02/03/02 ? 18:50, Alexander Jerusalem ?crivit:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm using the mxODBC package to query a database that contains german
> umlauts. The result strings conatain hex codes instead of umlauts.
> I've played around with encoding and stringformat values but to no
> avail. Any hints?
 
Yes. Post an example from an interactive Python session.

It's not unlikely that everything is just fine but your terminal doesn't
show the umlauts.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 1.5 ?C      Wind: 0.9 m/s



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 05:38:15 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:38:15 +0100
Subject: Recommended Books/Resources for Python
References: <a79jdo$leh$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <3C986697.8020500@bigfoot.de>

TegSkywalker wrote:
> Hey all. Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question (new and want to learn
> Python) but do any of you have any suggested books or readings on how to
> learn Phython? I saw an O'Reilly book over at Amazon.com
> (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565924649) and wasn't 100% sure if
> this was a good source or not.

I can't recommend anything myself, but here's a great listing of 
Python-related books: http://www.amk.ca/bookstore/

> Here is another question. I see that Python is a multisource language
> spanning different OSes like Windows, Linux, and Mactintosh like how Java
> aims to be. If I were going to program something like an interactive CD and
> wanted to give it to people to check out, would they have to have a Python
> interpreter installed on their machine or will it run like a normal Windows
> .exe file for example?

One way or the other, Python applications need an interpreter. There 
are, however, ways to bundle the interpreter and the libraries used by a 
script into one self-contained executable (or an executable and a few DLLs).

On Windows: Gordon McMillan's installer or py2exe
everywhere: freeze (in the Tools directory)

Gerhard



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sun Mar 10 13:18:43 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:18:43 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m@4ax.com>

>Hmm, I don't really see the difference in practice between
>statically linking and installing a bunch of "private" DLLs
>that are only used by my app.  In one case they're all in one
>file, in the other case they're in a bunch of files that have
>to be linked at run-time. In both cases none of the stuff is
>being shared with anybody else, so it's not like putting things
>in DLLs is saving any system resources -- though it perhaps
>make the packaging simpler.

The case for the DLL is more obvious when what it is your
distributing is a family of applications which live together.
There may also be load time differences between an application
that is statically linked and one that is dynamically linked.
I seem to recall in my Unix days that using .so's dramatically
quickened load times.

C//



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  1 21:20:39 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:20:39 -0500
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com> <gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C8036F7.A0DB600E@engcorp.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> >I'm pretty sure the last time I checked the PROGRA~1 convention still
> >worked on WinNT.  
> >
> I'm sure it does and I guess that Program Files will always match as
> it's often the first. On the other hand working with a path name
> obtained from an execution path there's no guarantee I can always do the
> correct conversion by assuming ~1, some end up as ~2 etc.
> 
> Is there a proper way to get the 8.3 name?

As Thomas showed, or more concisely with win32api.GetShortPathName().

But if this is not an application for distribution, you can 
definitely be 99.99% safe relying on progra~1 for that specific
file name, since "program files" will be the first directory
created with that pattern on almost any WinNT system.

I'm just keeping Python pragmatism in mind: if I don't _really_
need to fix it, I wouldn't spend any more time on it, ugly 
though this solution is.

-Peter


From mt_horeb at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 20:29:38 2002
From: mt_horeb at yahoo.com (Sloth)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 17:29:38 -0800
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
Message-ID: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com>

I've been working on finding a way of getting a CGI server, written in
Python, to work on a WinME laptop.  I've read through many posts
describing problems with the CGIHTTPServer module, and I've
experienced them as well.  However, since I would love to be able to
use a Python module to serve basic HTTP and CGI, I'd like to know if
anyone has had luck creating such a beast and/or if there are any tips
to get CGIHTTPServer to function.

I've looked at Apache, Xitami, Zope, Medusa, et. al and think they are
wonderful applications.  On the other hand, they are overkill for what
I want to be able to do - have Python start a CGI server, serve a
page, get form data, get data from a database, and display dynamic
content.  I don't need anything industrial strength, just something
that can handle a single user.

Any thoughts?  I sincerely appreciate everyone's help!

Jeremy.


From gerritvd at decillion.net  Mon Mar 25 05:39:33 2002
From: gerritvd at decillion.net (Gerrit van Dyk)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:39:33 +0200
Subject: win32Extensions,win32com
Message-ID: <3C9EFE65.7000300@decillion.net>

Hi all,

Is there a newsgroup or mailing list for the win32com extensions from 
Mark Hammond or should I post related questions on this list?

Regards
Gerrit van Dyk



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Mar 20 11:30:33 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:30:33 +0000
Subject: tkinter menuitem question
References: <mailman.1016634429.30440.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7a9mm$2bsv$1@norfair.nerim.net>

<posted & mailed>

Ken Guest wrote:
> ok, I might be way off here but is there a way with a collection of
> Tkinter menuitems that all have their callbacks set to be the one
> function to determine which menuitem was clicked on?

AFAIK, you cant't. But a simple workaround is to use a lambda function 
(example is in pure Tkinter):

----------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

def menuHit(menuName): print menuName

menubar = Menu(root)
m = Menu(menubar)
menubar.add_cascade(label='Menu', menu=m)

m.add_command(label="m1", command=lambda: menuHit("m1"))
m.add_command(label="m2", command=lambda: menuHit("m2"))

root['menu'] = menubar

root.mainloop()
----------------------------------

HTH
 - eric -



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 27 02:27:54 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:27:54 -0500
Subject: PyThreadState_DeleteCurrent()
In-Reply-To: <20020327042600.GD10449@isis.gerrietts.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECFOIAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Geoff Gerrietts]
> ...
> But ... what's the difference? When is PyThreadState_DeleteCurrent()
> the appropriate call, and when PyThreadState_Delete()? I've looked,
> and the docs haven't been updated to reflect this API change.

PyThreadState_Delete(PyThreadState *tstate) can only be called when the
passed-in tstate is not the current thread state.  It doesn't matter whether
you hold the GIL when it's called.

PyThreadState_DeleteCurrent() takes no argument, and deletes the current
thread state.  You must hold the GIL while calling it, and the thread
calling it loses its tstate, and loses the GIL, and must never call anything
in the Python C API ever again (unless it acquires another tstate first, but
that's an intended use case).  As that description hints <wink>, it was
introduced to plug a Python shutdown race.

A detailed explanation of "the bug" can be found in the comments here:

    http://www.python.org/sf/225673




From tim-dated-1016494087.c376d7 at catseye.net  Mon Mar 11 18:28:06 2002
From: tim-dated-1016494087.c376d7 at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 17:28:06 -0600
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <OFB5564D00.CEB2EFD5-ON88256B79.0067D8FD@i2.com>
References: <OFB5564D00.CEB2EFD5-ON88256B79.0067D8FD@i2.com>
Message-ID: <86adteadmh.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

James_Althoff at i2.com writes:

> [Tim Legant]
> > So either Jason and I are significantly better than you and your
> > team at expressing ourselves naturally in Python <wink> or it's
> > the need to interface with Java that's forcing you to use integer
> > indices all the time.  I'm betting big money on the latter.
> 
> I'm happy to believe you all are excellent programmers versed in Pythonic
> ways.  And I'm always happy to learn something new.  So feel free to help
> me on this one.

Hmmm.  Did you by any chance miss my <wink>?

My intent was to provide a supporting data point to your hypothesis
that the real issue is interfacing with Java.  With Python as it
exists today, I am unaware of any good solutions.

[snip description of nasty problem...]

> Perhaps you could give some ideas on approaches that would be more
> "Pythonic"?

Well, like I was trying to convey in my original message, I think
you're stuck.  Tim Peters actually came up with something a little
better, but I still think it's sad you have to write all kinds of
wrappers just to get a reasonable looping syntax.

FWIW, I completely agree that [x]range is awkward and inelegant (and
necessary) in these sorts of cases.  I'm also in full agreement with
better language support for more complex loops.  I haven't been really
happy with either of the PEPs, but I sure understand the problem
they're trying to address.


Tim



From cfelling at iae.nl  Sun Mar  3 21:30:01 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 03:30:01 +0100
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Brian <brian at lodoss.org> wrote:
> Regarding:

> z = [MyClass() for i in xrange(y)]

> Is there a way to do this without the use of i?

ofcourse, if you incist:)

    >>> class MyClass: pass
    ...
    >>> z = map(lambda x: C(), range(3))


    
-- 
groetjes, carel


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 15:17:28 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:17:28 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
Message-ID: <OF25030CF9.93CD4705-ON88256B73.006EBED7@i2.com>

[Huaiyu]
> I do not think that there is any conceptual difficulty to
> explain that
>        for i in n    ==>    for i in iter(n)
>        iter(3)       ==>    xrange(3)
>
> which is all that is in the proposal.  This is elegant and
> easily explainable even to a newbie.  I actually like this
> quite a lot.

And I, in turn, am quite fond of this part of your message <wink>.

> However, I still think the potential for unintended effects
> (bugs) is too big when a one-element sequence behaves substantially
> different from the element itself.  Imagine if Python had a character
> type and that
>         "abc" == ['a', 'b', 'c'] == 'd' != "d"
>
> Even though it can be explained, what utter confusion it would
> result in actual use!

Sorry, I'm a little confused by this one.  Example: "for x in ['spam']" is
not the same as "for x in 'spam'".  Isn't that a case "when a one-element
sequence behaves substantially different from the element itself" in this
context?

> Here's another example of a similar nature.  In Matlab there is a
> fuction sum(x) that would return sum of elements of x, if x is a
> (row or column) vector, or a row vector of columnwise sums of x,
> if x is a matrix.  This is very handy when used in isolation, but
> a pain in programs, because the behavior on (1xm) matrix has a
> different semantics.  Suppose x is a (5x4) matrix.  Then (using
> Python syntax instead of Matlab's)
>         sum(a[0:n:, :])
> would give a (nx4) matrix for n in 5, 4, 3, 2, but for n==1,
> it gives a scalar which is the sum of x as a row vector.

Not really following that example either.  Sorry.

Jim




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 14:24:53 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:24:53 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015028704.21047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C83CA04.6142D79E@ccvcorp.com>


James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> I was thinking in a more general sense: I would like to create an iterator
> with start, end, and step values and pass it into a function without first
> actualizing it as a list (like one would have to do using for+relational in
> conjunction with list comp.s).  And use the same construct in for-loops,
> list comp.s, etc.  (For those just tuning in: I realize that I can create a
> class for this -- actually, I already have.  I'm refering to proposals for
> new idioms in Python for iterating intervals of integers.)

Um...  isn't this exactly what xrange() does?  Or am I missing something again?

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From ws at mystrobl.de  Mon Mar 25 20:33:08 2002
From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:33:08 +0100
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <eujv9uonmvb9091u87it6438oqoev3cdqh@4ax.com>

Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:06:45 +0100, "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net>:

>All true. On the other hand, Python has no possibility to display
>or change the owner and access control lists (except if you do some
>hardcore win32 programming).

I would't call the following three-liner "hardcore win32 programming".
:-)

C:\>python
Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from win32security import *
>>>
>>> def owner(filename):
...
ownerdescriptor=GetFileSecurity(filename,OWNER_SECURITY_INFORMATION)
...     owner=ownerdescriptor.GetSecurityDescriptorOwner()
...     ownername=LookupAccountSid(None,owner)
...     return ownername[0]
...
>>> print owner("c:\\boot.ini")
Administratoren
>>>


-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 01:34:20 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:34:20 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6ADEC.80859964@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> I'm teaching Python for [Perl] Programmers at OSCON this July.  I've
> already decided to mention mxODBC, NumPy, and PIL, plus PythonPoint (aka
> ReportLab) gets a mention on my title page.  I'd like this group to vote
> on the most important extensions for me to add to this list.  Please vote
> for no more than three.

I take it PyXml and PyUnit no longer qualify as "extensions"?

(Not that the idea of unit testing would necessarily appeal
to Perl programmers anyway.)

-Peter


From dortmann at lsil.com  Sun Mar 10 21:11:49 2002
From: dortmann at lsil.com (Daniel Ortmann)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 20:11:49 -0600
Subject: python name spaces
Message-ID: <m3n0xfontm.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>

Hello,

As a Perl user who has switched to Python for all of the standard
reasons ...

I must admit I am frustrated by Python's seeming lack of powerful name
space support.  For example, in Perl I can do something like this,

    our $b = "...b";

    {
        my $a = "...a";
        our $f = sub { print $a, "\n" };
        our $g = sub { $a = "foo" }
    }

    $f->()
    $g->()

    # prints ...a, followed by foo.
    # the "$a" variable is ONLY seen by the unnamed $f and $g
    # subroutines.

Arbitrarily creating variables and subroutines with different scopes.
(The actual example seems silly, but really isn't.)

1) Can such name space manipulation be done in Python?
2) What about the creation of substantial subroutine closures?

Thanks in advance for any help!

-- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic
3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester, MN 55901
dortmann at lsil.com / 507.529.3887 (w) / 535.3887 (int)
ortmann at isl.net   / 507.288.7732 (h)


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Mar 13 17:23:02 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:23:02 +0000
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <q7kv8u0s9fq1k25ktlcnmpiqh8h2tn9cem@4ax.com>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:13 -0800, James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

>
>[ruud de rooij[
>| perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
>| (analogous to dictionaries).
>
>[Clark C . Evans]
>| Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
>| does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
>| as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
>| consistent, and quite elegant.
>
>I would like to see:
>    .keys()
>    .items()
>    .iterkeys()
>    .iteritems()
>
>jim
>

The same idea should be extended to any sequence, actually.

Gon?alo Rodrigues.



From brueckd at tbye.com  Tue Mar 26 12:27:24 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:27:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
In-Reply-To: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203260917160.18275-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Eduard Smirnov wrote:

> I?m writing a diploma paper on the difference between scripting (e.g. in
> Python or Tcl) and system programming (e.g. in C, C++ or Java), and one of

As a side note, what definition of "system programming" would include Java
but not Python? I know this isn't the intent of your paper, but one of the
reasons Python is so flexible is that you can use it as a scripting
language in the classical sense as well as a general purpose language like
Java.

-Dave




From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 21 08:20:52 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:20:52 GMT
Subject: Attachments to the list/group - OK?  (Was Re: Popular style document?)
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <20020320170740.GH18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net> <mailman.1016645372.27464.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <upu1y12ao.fsf@python.net>

Andy Gimblett <gimbo at ftech.net> writes:

> I've just noticed that most people seem to embed their code directly
> into their messages.  Is attaching .py files (or any other
> non-binaries) frowned upon around here?

Some sites reject messages to non-binary groups with attachments.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I don't remember any dirty green trousers.
                                             -- Ian Jackson, ucam.chat


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 18:54:36 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 00:54:36 +0100
Subject: Older Python bug entries on SourceForge
References: <u1yf327cp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <m3g03jn8sj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> writes:

> I was trying to look up an old bug entry on SourceForge (based on a
> bug number from some CVS log comments) and can't seem to pull it up.
> Does anyone know if SourceForge expires closed bugs after some time
> duration or something?  Is there any archive available to view old
> bugs?

Normally, they will be kept forever. However, when SF updated the
software to generalize trackers (i.e. making the bug tracker an
instance of a general feature), they had to renumber all existing
bugs. So if you have a bug number below 300000, SF will have
renumbered the bug by now. They used to have a backwards-compatible
URL in place, redirecting to the new report, but they may have
disabled that by now.

Regards,
Martin



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 16 20:40:08 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:40:08 -0500
Subject: Enhanced information from common exceptions
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0203161701.1a2da9a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGECKOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Machin]
> An example:
>
> >>> alist = [4,3,2,1]
> >>> alist[42]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> IndexError: list index out of range
> >>>
>
> Suppose this was actually in a script somewhere. IMO, it would be much
> more useful for Python developers of all levels were the message to be
> something like:
>
> IndexError: list index 42 not in range(4)
>
> Often this extra info would lead to problem recognition & resolution
> without the need for an extra step (print statement or debugger).

A difficulty with this kind of thing is that producing exception info
doesn't come for free.  Before 2.2, raising IndexError was the only way to
terminate a "for" loop via normal exhaustion, and the list indexing code has
no idea *why* it's being called.  If it produced more info on an
out-of-range index, it would slow down every normal loop by the time it took
to construct a nice exception message doomed to be thrown away unlooked-at.
Note that the integers in your ideal message have to go through binary ->
decimal string conversion, and lots of dynamic string fiddling to paste all
the msg pieces together.  The cycles add up fast.

> Perhaps if people cared to nominate their "favourite" high-frequency-
> low-information exception message(s), together with suggested changes,
> we could put together a nanoPEP on this topic -- or simply just propose
> a few patches.

We're *usually* happy to apply such patches, but get more cautious over
time.  Last year Jim Fulton and I traced a major slowdown in Zope to a "nice
msg" patch that spent lots of time formatting exception info in a context
where Zope routinely provoked that exception in a try/except that ignored
the exception.

So these things can be trickier to get right than you may think.  A good
approach to IndexError would be to create an "exception object" at the C
level that merely stored the offending index and max size, as C longs, and
didn't produce a string until and unless it was actually needed for display.
Unfortunately, that raises the amount of knowledge needed to write such a
patch.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  8 15:09:26 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 20:09:26 GMT
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>         <B8AD9351.4A8C%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>         <a6ascr$19l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1015611735.7436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6b5pm$oqg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>:
|
|     Donn> ... I wonder if all of Python's performance problems are really so
|     Donn> deep.  A few weeks ago someone posted some performance
|     Donn> measurements and, among other things, noted that version 2.2 took
|     Donn> twice as long just to start up.  Did that appalling statistic
|     Donn> attract any investigation into the cause, ...
|
| I believe the bulk of the effort in the 2.x series up to this point has
| focused on functionality ahead of performance.  I'm sure there are things
| that can be done.  Why not file a bug report, investigate and solve the
| problem, then grab some of that fame and fortune I alluded in my post
| seeking new developers yesterday?  (I'm not picking on Donn, he just happens
| to be the one who raised this issue and gave me the nice segue.)

I haven't even downloaded 2.2, because that's how I see it too -
that Python development has lately focused on functionality, given
a definition of functionality that doesn't include performance.
In other words, 2.2 is a toy release for people who want to play
with language features.  There's another segue in here back to
another of your posts from yesterday, but I'll leave that alone.

| The group of people who actively beat on the code is still fairly small.  I
| count 38 people currently with checkin privileges.  Of those, I count six
| whose SF usernames I don't even recognize.  There are probably another five
| to ten who don't regularly contribute to either checkins or python-dev
| discussions.  That means the effective pool of developers is really quite
| small.  That, in turn, means we need more eyeballs.  You don't need checkin
| privileges to tackle an open bug or investigate a problem and report its
| cause (a proposed solution would be helpful, but it might go a long ways
| towards fixing a problem if you can narrow down the cause a bit).
|
|     Donn> I believe I recall something similar in 2.0, due to a mistake in
|     Donn> site.py that was discovered during the beta releases.  Not a hard
|     Donn> problem, just one that wouldn't be noticed until someone wondered
|     Donn> why performance went downhill so fast.  We can wave our hands and
|     Donn> say performance is a tough problem, but it would be more
|     Donn> convincing if it looked like it was getting the most minimal
|     Donn> attention.
|
| Agreed.  When can we expect that patch? ;-)

Don't hold your breath.  I might be up for fixing problems in 2.1.1,
but it looks to me like 2.1 doesn't have this particular problem
(anyway, it starts up about as fast as 2.0 for me.)

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar  6 14:52:42 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:52:42 +0100
Subject: fork and thread and signal... oooooops
In-Reply-To: <lJph8.56$_Z4.249@news.hananet.net>
References: <87550ef1.0203050846.2166835e@posting.google.com> <lJph8.56$_Z4.249@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <20020306195241.GB2259@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 06/03/02 ? 23:41, Jonathan Gardner ?crivit:
> [...]
> Your init.d script will be written in sh, not python. It would be a 
> horrible idea to write an init.d script in python.

I can't see why writing an init script in Python would be a bad idea.
Care to explain?

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 9.2 ?C      Wind: 4.6 m/s



From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Fri Mar 29 17:59:14 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:59:14 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] [development doc updates]
References: <20020329224851.02DAD18EAD1@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <0ffe01c1d775$c84ba270$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>

I'll see what I can do. It would help to have some guidance as to:

* What needs to be done
* What format(s) would be appropriate (patches to TeX source, plain
text...)
* What approach to take (e.g. "just document what the existing Python
source does", or "ask Guido what the intended functionality is and
transcribe what he says")
* ...etc. (I'm sure you can think of more).

-Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred L. Drake" <fdrake at acm.org>
To: <python-dev at python.org>; <doc-sig at python.org>;
<python-list at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:48 PM
Subject: [Python-Dev] [development doc updates]


> The development version of the documentation has been updated:
>
>     http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/
>
> Started to update the Extending & Embedding manual with information on
the
> new support for types.
>
> There's still a long way to go -- contributions welcome!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev




From mnations at airmail.net  Thu Mar 14 17:07:55 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 14:07:55 -0800
Subject: Threading/TkInter problems with Buttons.
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203141407.9b20050@posting.google.com>

I was trying to start a thread from a button to find that it would not
work. The problem was that every time I started the application, the
thread would automatically kick off:


self.Go["command"] = self.thread1.start()


I eventually put an extra step in the process and had the Go command
call a function, which then called the thread. This worked:

self.thread1 = Thread(target = self.cb)
...
def go_thread(self):
		self.thread1.start()

def cb(self):
		while self.ok:
			printAll( self.ipaddr.get(), self.var.get() )
...
self.Go["command"] = self.go_thread


Why does it not work when you hook it up to the button, and is there a
way around this problem.

Thanks,
Marc


From joonas at olen.to  Mon Mar 25 03:18:52 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:18:52 +0200
Subject: hang in urllib.read()?
References: <mailman.1017016298.24686.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9EDD6C.D4A8A22A@olen.to>

Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> The (presumably) infinite loop that I thought was in sgmllib, about which I
> posted earlier, actually seems to be when I call read() on an urllib.urlopen
> object.  It's terribly non-reproducible, though -- I'm retrieving lots of
> pages and sometimes it'll go for dozens and dozens, no problem.  Other time
> it hangs after just a few.  And it won't do it on the same page twice, as
> far as I can see.
> 
> I've been unable to find anything like this searching...  sound familiar to
> anyone, or any suggestions for nailing it down, short of gruesome stepping
> through with a debugger, hoping I can catch one...?
> 
> This is on Win2000 with Python 2.2.  Haven't tried on other platforms yet.

Your problem is propably the quite long timeout of urlopen. 
Search Google Groups for "urllib timeout" or take a look at
http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar  6 17:36:55 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:36:55 +0000
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com> <slrna8d15n.lct.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <3C869A07.1030501@mxm.dk>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

> Do you want to *write* a Weblog-like system, or just *use* one?  If you
> just want to use one, then Squishdot is the only alternative in Python
> that I'm aware of, and it requires Zope.

Then I would like to add that I have just installed Plone. A weblog 
built on top of Zope's Content Management Framework. It has some rough 
edges but seems rather complete, and nearing a 1.0 version "Real Soon 
Now TM"

http://plone.org

regards Max M



From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Wed Mar 13 20:07:30 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:07:30 GMT
Subject: redirecting stdin with Python scripts under win2k (solution)
Message-ID: <ubsdsyn38.fsf@online.no>

It seems that I've finally found an elegant way to do #! functionality on win2k
and upwards:

instead of #! ... 

put:

@python -x "%~f0" %* & goto :EOF

in the first line of your python script file.

Call the file *scriptname*.bat

If this file is located in your path, you should be to call it from
anywhere by writing on the commandline:

*scriptname*

or:

*scriptname*.bat

Redirection of iostreams and piping between programs should work as
expected, and not fail as it does when using .py files on the
commandline.


Notes:
for emacs users put this in the bottom of your scriptfile.
# Local Variables: ***
# mode:python ***
# End: ***

Explanation of commandline:
@python      -x                              "%~f0" %* 
(run python) (skip first line of sourcetext) from fully qualified name of
the file itself)

&                        goto :EOF
command separator        jump to end of file 


This commanline uses the command extensions that are provided in
win2000 so it won't work on win9x family of win32 operating systems. I
don't think they work in NT 4 either but I am not sure.


-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 15:47:26 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:47:26 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OFAAF020B5.04CCCDE3-ON88256B73.006FA78B@i2.com>

[Greg Ewing]
> It's been suggested that this proposal doesn't ask
> us to think of integers as being sequences, only as
> having sequences implicitly associated with them.

Going beyond suggesting, I hereby *command* you not to think of integers as
being sequences <wink>.

> But I don't agree. While it's certainly possible
> to give any object an __iter__ method that does
> anything you want, it doesn't mean you should!

Right.  Unless it's useful and practical to do so (exclamation point right
back at ya <wink>).

> To me, the __iter__ protocol is intended to be used
> when an object can reasonably be thought of as a
> sequence. That's actually *being* a sequence, not just
> "associated" with a sequence in some way.

I think that view of iterators is overly restrictive.  An example is dict.
I don't have to think that a dict object *is* a sequence to be content with
it being a valid arg to iter().  For me, it's fine to write
    for x in mydict: print x
and think "this works because there is a useful and practical sequence
*associated* with mydict (namely, a sequence of the keys in mydict)".

And keep on writing code <wink>.

Jim




From jbell at iinet.net.au  Wed Mar 27 03:20:03 2002
From: jbell at iinet.net.au (John Bell)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:20:03 +0800
Subject: Symbolic imports and manipulation of the namespace?
References: <mailman.1017180521.5865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA180B3.9000909@iinet.net.au>

I should have pointed out that if it is indeed a traditional config file 
  then it might be smarter to parse it.  In this case why not look at 
the ConfigParser module.  It parses files written in Microsoft .INI 
format and is thus comprehensible to a reasonable subset of end users.

John

VanL wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I was recently solving a problem which required that the config file 
> (just a python file) lie outside of the pythonpath.  Is it possible to 
> do symbolic importation of a module?
> 
> For example, I had:
> 
> # cfgpath is passed in on the command line
> cfgpath = os.path.basename(cfgpath)
> sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
> import sc_cfg     #Hardcoded config module name!
> 
> 
> How do you do this:
> 
> # cfgpath is passed in on the command line
> cfgpath, cfgfile = os.path.split(cfgpath)
> sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
> import cfgfile     #Hardcoded config module name!
> 
> So that any file name (ending with .py, of course, but that's another 
> matter) could be the configfile?
> I tried the above, but I got an ImportError (no module named cfgfile)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Van
> 
> 



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 08:44:46 2002
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:44:46 -0000
Subject: Boa v0.1.0-alpha + unrelated question
Message-ID: <a81r2k$8qr$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

I have just installed the above on a Win98 and a Win2k box (ActiveState
Python 2.1, wxPython-2.3.2.1).  After some very slight modification an
existing Boa App is running fine.  The only problem is that I cannot open up
the associated modules directly from the Editor window.  i.e.

AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'connection'

Also 'type' for each module is 'unknown', and right clicking + 'Make module
main module' has no apparent effect.

Anyone any idea, or do I need to provide more info?

On an unrelated note; is there a better (more Pythonic / more efficient) way
of swapping two rows in a Numeric array than the following.

def swapRows(array, index1, index2):
    temp = array[index2, :].astype(type(array))
    array[index2, :] = array[index1, :]
    array[index1, :] = temp

TIA

Duncan




From jolsen at mailme.dk  Fri Mar 15 02:05:58 2002
From: jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 23:05:58 -0800
Subject: XML-RPC Question
References: <cf0ad9fb.0203140407.2356290b@posting.google.com> <L41k8.70$5Kn.175400448@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <cf0ad9fb.0203142305.78ae5e24@posting.google.com>

"Thomas Weholt" <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote in message news:<L41k8.70$5Kn.175400448 at news.telia.no>...
> I'm not sure about this, but I think SimpleXMLRPCServer only provide access
> to the methods of the object you "publish", in your example the methods of
> MyClass, nothing else.
> 
> system.listMethods() comes from .... .NET ??
> 
> I migth be wrong, and if so, please let me know.
> 

No, not from .NET 

system.listMethods() is from the XML RPC introspection API
- se section 11.20.1 in the python reference doc

It is nice to have when connecting to servers you have not written yourself.

It should be very easy to support it in the SimpleXMLRPCServer,
but I guess it is not quite a standard, so they did not bother

Cheers
Jesper


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar  9 18:57:02 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:57:02 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news>
Message-ID: <ijxi8.3396$bK5.2709@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

I'm suprised this one isn't in the FAQ.
You're seeing the actual object and not a printable representation of it.

>>> round(56.78923, 2)
56.789999999999999
>>> print round(56.78923, 2)
56.79
>>> "%f" % round(56.78923, 2)
'56.790000'

--
-

<brobbins333 at shaw.ca> wrote in message news:3c8a9c23.152007063 at news...
> I understand the problem of rounding errors with binary numbers.
> However, the rounding functions of other languages  work around it and
> return a usable result. What have they got that Python hasn't got?
>
> BR
>
> ps -- your name is very familiar. i think i've read one of your books.
>
> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:13:50 GMT, Erik de Castro Lopo
> <nospam at mega-nerd.com> wrote:
>
> >brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
> >>
> >> the round() function will sometimes return a predictable result, as
> >> in:
> >>
> >> round(45.67891, 2)
> >> >>> 45.68
> >>
> >> but sometimes it will return something like:
> >>
> >> round(56.78923, 2)
> >> >>> 56.789999999999999
> >>
> >> 2.1 and 2.2 both behave this way on two different (Windows) computers.
> >> What's going on here?
> >
> >
> >What you will fins is that some numbers like 2, 0.25 etc can be
> >represented exactly in floating point format while others like
> >2/3 cannot.
> >
> >Thats just the way it is.
> >
> >Erik
> >--
> >+-----------------------------------------------------------+
> >  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
> >+-----------------------------------------------------------+
> >BSD:  A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC
> >Berkeley or thereabouts.  Similar in many ways to the prescription-only
> >medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least,
> >more fun.)  The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution".
>




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar  7 19:09:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 00:09:45 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1015510291.15246.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a68vg9$fc1$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:09:52 -0600, "Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote:

>Ugly.  You state that code like this:
>
>def somefunc():
>    astring = """this is the first line
>this is the second"""
>
>... is ugly.  Fine, but IMHO so is the proposed syntax.
>
>Recall always that the charm of Python is it's simplicity.  Even with the
>new language features added in 2.1 and 2.2, a "bear of little brain" can
>remember all the rules more or less at the same time.
>
Well, I think the charm is that one may use a very lean and clean subset of
the full set of features, but that need not imply that the full set must be limited.

Python already has plenty to boggle a "bear of little brain" in meta-classes
etc., so I don't think a feature that can safely be ignored should be criticized
on the basis of its taxing little bears' brains ;-)

>I am against pasting and patching one after another new language construct,
>syntax sweetener, etc. to Python because it detracts from that core
>simplicity
>each and every time.
>
I really agree. But I think the ability to __quote__ arbitrary raw text in source
is a __missing capability__. It's not something you can already do, that I'm just
proposing a sugar coating for. NB: I'm not saying you can't __define__ arbitrary string
content by writing suitable escape sequences etc. That's not the problem. The problem is
safely delimiting arbitrary __existing__ text __within__ a source file, without changing
it and without having to inspect it or make iffy assumptions about its content.

I think, e.g., that "for i in 5: ..." is *more* sugary, because you already have the
ability to do it with "for i in xrange(5): ..."

>This is why I am against incorporating the "$varname" interpolation
>operator.
>At least, IMHO it is not ugly.
>
But things like this you can often build using classes and subclassing. I would rather
extend the building capability (as has been done greatly with 2.2) than add pre-built gizmos.

>There seem to be a never-ending stream of new language feature proposals.
>Praise Guido they don't all get incorporated!
>
Agreed.
>(Don't take this personally.  I've had my share of similar ideas; we all
>think we are like Guido and can improve the language.  Learning to trust his
>language-design skills was hard, but rewarding.)
Well, once this has boiled down to a clear proposal, I'd like to hear his pronouncement.
Thus far, I don't seem to have succeeded in communicating the fact that Python can't
do now what it could using some implementation of this idea. It's not a new idea. It exists
in other contexts, so it's not a personal pet invention. It's a matter of whether Guido
will think the base functionality is desirable. If he does, he'll likely think of better
syntax for it. I would guess he invented triple quotes as an easy and convenient way to
deal with quoting a mix of single quotes. This just takes the next step, recognizing
that another fixed sequence (or two) of characters as delimiters will not do it.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jason at jorendorff.com  Tue Mar 12 13:40:38 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:40:38 -0600
Subject: new to python - please help
In-Reply-To: <9e629c01.0203120932.5b3eae15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEPDDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Rule #1:  Post real code.

I can't make heads or tails of your post because all
that code is so broken.  :-/  It's got syntax errors.

I can sort of see a few things that I think you're
doing a bit wrong, but I can't help because I
simply have no clue what you're trying to accomplish.
So, post real code.

Also, let us know what version of Python you're using.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Mar  6 18:18:22 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:18:22 -0800
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <a6683u$nm$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3C850173.4050004 at bioeng.ucsd.edu>,
Curtis Jensen  <cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
>Also, if your main intent for reviewing the book was for the money, I'd 
>suggest playing the lotto instead.  Don't be so arogant that you think 
>that your time is so precious as to complain about a temporary, 
>predeterimined, pay scale.  They were upfront in their monatary 
>compensation.  If you don't like it, don't review the book.

Huh???  Can anybody explain where this paragraph comes from?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From paul at boddie.net  Fri Mar 15 11:20:40 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 08:20:40 -0800
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <a6mpda$79e$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com> <MPG.16f93563d41b508f989696@news.mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203150820.6362868@posting.google.com>

James A Roush <jar at mminternet.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.16f93563d41b508f989696 at news.mminternet.com>...
> 

[Handling relative and "rooted" links in Web pages]

> This precisely what I'm looking for.  As someone else pointed out in another 
> post, urllib should have this but, sadly, does not.

The module I mentioned [1] doesn't attempt to handle more
sophisticated URL types, such as...

  http://user at somesite/somepath

Indeed, a more generic URL parser really needs to be put into the
standard library whilst retaining the simplicity that one tends to see
in other "path" manipulation APIs (eg. os.path) - the world doesn't
need another overcomplicated Java-like API to do the simplest of
things. I wonder if mxURL might at least provide inspiration.

Paul

[1] http://www.boddie.org.uk/downloads/urlutils.py


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Fri Mar 29 20:34:53 2002
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:34:53 GMT
Subject: Ugly little issue with Tkinter - Pmw.Counter - datatype
References: <mailman.1017440509.2413.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1D8p8.5474$vm6.876566@ruti.visi.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:17:39 -0600, Paul Sage <psage at ncaustin.com> wrote:

>The function header currently looks like this:
>
>def custom_counter_body(self, text, factor, increment):
>
>I need it to look like this:
>
>Def custom_counter_body(self, text, factor, increment, thePlayer)

Dear Paul,

I suspect that you could use an object with a __call__method.  You
could store the state when creating the object and have the __call__
method take the arguments that Pmw supplies. Something like this might
work:

class callbackObject:
  def __init__(self,thePlayer):
    self.thePlayer=thePlayer
  def __call__(self, text, factor, increment):
    # Do something involving those arguments
    # and self.thePlayer
    return 42

Regards,
Matt


From krissepu at vip.fi  Mon Mar 11 09:47:49 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (pekka niiranen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:47:49 GMT
Subject: Changing Working Directory in Windows
References: <3c8cb05d.221547919@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC3C4.7030607@vip.fi>

You could try playing with pythonwin's commandline:

import os
 >>> os.getcwd()
'E:\\Python22\\lib\\site-packages'
 >>> os.chdir('..')
 >>> os.getcwd()
'E:\\Python22\\lib'
 >>> newpath = os.path.join(os.getcwd(), 'mydirectory', 'myfile.txt')
 >>> print newpath
E:\Python22\lib\mydirectory\myfile.txt

-pekka-


nrk at cmcorp.com wrote:

>I'm brand new to Python.  Can someone tell me how to change a working
>directory in a script on a Windows system?
>
>What does the pathname specification look like?
>Can I use an absolute path name when referring to a file?
>
>Thanks for any help you can give me.
>
>Norm Kashdan
>



From grante at visi.com  Fri Mar 15 09:50:28 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:50:28 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016168907.4720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <USnk8.25666$N7.5384674@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1016168907.4720.python-list at python.org>, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     >>    selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
>     >>    (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, selectables)
>     ...
> 
>     >> It blocks forever waiting for theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
>     >> to return.  I expect it to block waiting for select.select(); that
>     >> would not be a problem.  The problem is that select is claiming
>     >> there's stuff to be read, then when I try to read it, it's not there!
>     >> How can that be?
> 
> Based upon the attribute names you are using, I suspect you instantiated
> os.Popen3 to create theProcess.  These are file objects, not sockets.

Under Unix (and Linux) those "file objects" would be pipes, and
select will work fine.  Under Windows, things are probably more
complicated.

> I believe select only blocks on sockets.

That is true under Win32 -- Just one of the problems when using
an OS where the networking was pasted on (badly) as an
afterthought.

Under Unix, select works on all file descriptors (sockets,
pipes, serial ports, etc.).  That demonstrates the _right_ way
to paste on networking as an afterthought.

> See the comments about asynchronous file i/o near the bottom of
> asyncore.py.


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Fold, fold,
                                  at               FOLD!! FOLDING many items!!
                               visi.com            


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 18:15:27 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 23:15:27 GMT
Subject: How to get a key from  dictionary?
References: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost> <009501c1d458$0a5a86c0$3425fea9@0016314730> <mailman.1017174606.20283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7qvef$1rs$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:28:38 +1200, Matthew Sherborne <miracle at paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C1D569.652C29C0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>	charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Sorry to be a show off, but I reckon that this way may be faster. Sorry =
>again. The other replies are very helpful.  :)
>
>def findKey(val):
>  for key, value in dict.items():
>    if value =3D=3D val: return key
>  return None
> =20
>GBU
>Matthew Sherborne
>
I have no problem with your showing off (since the risk is all yours ;-)
but I really dislike reading literal HTML. Please try to avoid posting it ;-/
(No, I won't switch to outlook ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ak at silmarill.org  Thu Mar 28 02:34:14 2002
From: ak at silmarill.org (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:34:14 GMT
Subject: Dealing with python version
References: <slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org> <m3u1r1y68i.fsf@wilma.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnaa5hul.7ve.ak@ak.silmarill.org>

In article <m3u1r1y68i.fsf at wilma.localdomain>, Harry George wrote:
> Andrei Kulakov <ak at silmarill.org> writes:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like if python1.6 or 2.0 are
>> already installed and you install a newer version, python command still
>> points to the old interpreter.
>> 
>> I think it would be sensible to use the newest installed python to run
>> a program. Is there some elegant way to do that?
>> 
>> I would ideally prefer it to run using newest interpreter available
>> unless it's older than some minimum requirement. It's not very
>> user-friendly to put #!/usr/bin/env python2.1 bang line and then say in
>> a README that if user gets an error, he has to somehow find out what's
>> the latest version he's got and change the bang line to it.
>> 
>> What's the proper way to deal with all of this?
>> 
> 

[snip]

Umm.. I guess I should have made it more explicit that I'm distributing
an application - I have a tarfile on my website that people are supposed
to download, unarchive and run. The problem is that even if they have
a python version that could run it correctly, the program itself should
intelligently detect which versions are there, whether any of them is
good enough, and if not, tell the user what exactly is the problem.

What I had in mind is a function that'd take two arguments: minimum
python version that the program needs and the program name itself. I.e.
say I have a file called vtip.py that needs at least python 2.1. I'd
like a module that I can name run_vtip.py, and in it I'd have to set two
vars at top:

min_python_version = "2.1"
run = "vtip.py"

Then it'd look at what python versions are available and if there's one
that's equal or higher than 2.1, use it to run vtip.py, and if not, tell
user that vtip needs 2.1 and he should get that.

This seems like a very useful thing to do, and if you ask users to do
this manually in your README, some of them will either miss or
misunderstand it, then email you, and some will have trouble determining
what versions they have and how to change bang lines, etc.

IOW, this should be automated. Hadn't anyone done this yet? Is there
some particular reason why this is hard to implement?


 - Andrei


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From denro at NSPAMearthlink.net  Mon Mar  4 17:42:52 2002
From: denro at NSPAMearthlink.net (Dennis Roark)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:42:52 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1015178825.27707.python-list@python.org> <a5t3f9.3vsf871.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91C7AA1AE38AEdenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.25>

Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote in
news:a5t3f9.3vsf871.1 at kserver.org: 
...
> In
> fact, I know some teachers who think that their book is practically
> the C++ gospel or something. I never had that high an opinion of their
> book. As I related, I didn't choose it for the text when I taught C++.
> I considered several other books, and ended up with the one by Walter
> Savitch. And while the narrative was very good in Savtich's book,
> there not enough good exercises and programming assignments for my
> high school students, and I was always having to search other books
> for that type of stuff...
> 

First books in C++ are mostly a dissappointing lot, surprisingly so.  
The Lippman and Lajoie and books by Bruce Eckel are good for students 
who have some familiarity with programming.  I've used the Savitch and 
Main and Savitch books, and a host of others searching for the "perfect 
book".  I've considered D&D, but I could never stomach its approach (not 
truly object oriented from the ground up) and conceptual errors or 
weaknesses (some mentioned in this thread).  There will probably be many 
grumbles with this suggestion, but the best I have found for the first 
introduction is Lafore, Object Oriented Programming in C++.  But I am 
really interested in weaving Python into the CS courses including the 
first year courses.  I am taking tentative steps in that direction this 
year and next.

-- 
Dennis Roark

denro at earthlink.net
Starting Points:
www.home.earthlink.net/~denro


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 03:20:59 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:20:59 GMT
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
References: <vcfh8.405$tL.70@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <3czdq05v.fsf@vfa.com> <Ntwh8.2920$J3.429@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <LpFh8.294009$Aw2.23350917@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"logistix" <logstx at bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:Ntwh8.2920$J3.429 at nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> Okay, now I'm confused.
>
> I was perfectly happy with Teddy Reedy's explaination that def is an
> expression and not a declaration.

What I said is that it is an *executable statement* rather than a
declaration.

> But if I'm following you, the embedded attribute function isn't
being
> recompiled to bytecode each time function() is called.

For efficiency, the body is compiled once.  However, this is not part
of the language definition (neither is the existence of byte code).

>  If the code object  is only getting created once,
> then why are the defaults getting  recalculated?

Defaults, I presume, are part of the function object which is created
with each invocation.

Terry J. Reedy






From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 21:04:23 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:04:23 +0000
Subject: Environment variables.
References: <mailman.1016817295.29856.python-list@python.org> <3C9BAFAE.51D0896D@cs.unm.edu>
Message-ID: <ggon9ucdbsrpsqn59fme4g8vsch4ato92b@4ax.com>

You can't change the environment variables of your calling
environment. There is simply no mechanism in the OS.

When your program is called, it gets a copy of the calling program's
environment. You can change this copy all you like but when your
program ends, it is destroyed.

The only way to set environment variables so they persist is by
attacking the registry but then the new values don't get used until
you start a new command prompt window.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Tue Mar 26 15:11:08 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 20:11:08 GMT
Subject: Python and the Parrot
References: <mailman.1017164920.30279.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa1leq.ai6.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1017164920.30279.python-list at python.org>, 
	Gerard Braad wrote:
> more useful... i wanted to know if someone else here is using it... and?
> do you think python should be ported to the parrot vm??? or are you
> already programming (/porting/testing/etc) on it???

Parrot currently has no way to implement scoped variables, therefore
it's basically a toy.  If and when it's actually possible to use
Parrot for implementing a real programming language, I'm sure work on
Python to Parrot translation will be resumed.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
  "Brilliant! I wish I'd thought of that!"
  "Oh, you will, Doctor, you will."
    -- The Doctor and Romana, in "The Horns of Nimon"


From dragon at china.org  Tue Mar 26 02:29:33 2002
From: dragon at china.org (Qiang.JL)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:29:33 GMT
Subject: beginner question
References: <cDTn8.2512$RQq.540@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <a7p5o2$5oe$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <xrVn8.3253$e94.1999@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:a7p5o2$5oe$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:25:28 GMT, "Qiang.JL" <dragon at china.org> wrote:
>
> >for this line:
> >
> >>>> g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split())) or (lambda y: 'second')
> >
> I doubt if this expression is doing what you want. It is the same form as
>
>      g = a or b
>
> which will set g to a, unless a counts as false (e.g., None,'',[],(), or
zero),
> in which case g will be set to b irrespective of b's value. So your
expression
> is effectively equivalent to
>
>     g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))
>

sorry english is not my native language, but why equivalent ? are you saying
the second condition is useless?


> If you really don't want to use def and you want to use your original
> expressions, use another lambda to tie them together, e.g., (OTTOMH,
> not very well tested ;-)
>
>  >>> g = lambda x: (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))(str(x)) or (lambda y:
'second')(str(x))
>  >>> g('   ')
>  'second'
>  >>> g(g)
>  '<function <lambda> at 0x007DB060>'
>  >>> g(' a     bc    def')
>  'a bc def'
>
> Notice that the ouside lambda has a body that both defines _and_ calls the
internal lambdas
> with the str()-protected arguments. The second lambda will only be called
if the first one
> returns ''. The outside lambda then returns the result from whichever
internal one.
>
> But I'd say that's pretty ugly to read compared to
>
>  >>> def g(x):
>  ...     return ' '.join(str(x).split()) or 'second'
>  ...
>
> ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter
>

if the original lambdas work like yours why you add another one outside ? it
seems does the same thing.
Weird i run into problem with this one ..

>>> def g(x):
 return ' '.join(str(x).split()) or 'second'

>>> g(0)
'0'
>>> g('')
'second'
>>> g=(lambda x: ' '.join(str(x).split())) or (lambda x: 'second')
>>> g('')
''            # why it prints '' instead of 'second' ??????
>>> g(0)
'0'

what's wrong here ?

thanks

Q.




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 20:33:44 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:33:44 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF3FF554FB.D8EA5D84-ON88256B74.0006A591@i2.com>

[James_Althoff]
>
> I don't have to think that a dict object *is* a sequence to be
> content with it being a valid arg to iter().

[Greg Ewing]
> Well, more generally, "collection".

Good.  That's step one: generalizing from sequence to collection <wink>.

[Greg Ewing]
> And I *do* think
> of a dict as being a collection -- of key-value pairs.
> It's perhaps debatable whether its iterator should
> return just the keys or keys+values, but the decision
> made here makes perfectly good sense to me. In real
> life, it doesn't seem at all odd to ask things like
> "Is 'furgleblunger' in the dictionary?"
>
> But if someone asked me "Is 7 in 42?" I'd think
> I'd misheard them somehow.

I agree that the choice of the particular keyword "in" as in "for x in y"
lends itself to being interpreted as "for each object that is a member of y
which *is* an aggregation of other objects".  But, since Python has already
generalized beyond that, I think it's fine to say that "in" means something
more than that restricted interpretation (e.g., "for each object generated
by the iter(y) object").  Your basic difference of opinion, I suppose.

you-say-furgleblunger-i-say-spline-ly yr's,

Jim




From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 06:44:18 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:44:18 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrnaac6kf.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrnaacj3a.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020331064422.219$KW@news.newsreader.com>

"phil hunt" escribi? en el mensaje
> ....
>
> I've gone through some of my herbivore code, looking to see where
> I've used 0 or 1 as a boolean. Example 1:
>
> debug = 0  # debugging this module?
>
> Frankly, if that is unclear to anyone, they are not cut out to be a
> programmer. Bear in mind that most non-programmers are aware of the
> 0/1 paradigm for boolean values: it appears on much electrical
> equipment.
>
> [an example of a "log" flag follows]

Actually "debug" and "log" flags use to be confusing if the original
author didn't document the use case. Those can be either boolean
flags or integers level indicators.

For instance, in your example the "debug = 0" may have both meanings.
It's the "?" in the commentary that raises the bets towards boolean.

It's a very common practice to start with a boolean meaning and
"promote" it afterwards to a level parameter. I'm not judging that
practice here because I don't think it is a problem, it just works.

Regards,
-Hernan






From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Mar  9 12:57:15 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:57:15 -0500
Subject: short-circuit behavior anomaly? (fwd)
Message-ID: <7zki8kKkXoNV092yn@gnosis.cx>                

|> http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_13.txt
|> def pr(s): print s
|> def fn():
|>     (x == 1 and pr('one')) \
|>  or (x == 2 and pr('two')) \
|>  or (pr('other'))
|By default, functions return None, which is false.  For this function
|to work right in context below, you must return a true value

That is my tutorial.  I was just about to write apologizing for the
error.  But looking at the file, I don't see the problem there
currently.  I'm not sure whether the problem was with a cached version
of the article that has been fixed; or maybe it is from one of my other
articles on FP in Python.

In any case, Reedy is right about the example.  A better function would
be something like:

    def pr(s):
        print s
        return 1

Btw. There *is* an error in one of my articles, concerning
short-circuiting.  I'm not sure if I corrected it on my web site (but
the IBM dW copy will remain wrong either way).  It was something like:

    # Like C ternary 'cond ? this : that'
    (<<cond>> and this) or that

If this is a false value, the expression doesn't do what is desired.  A
solution is:

    ((<<cond>> and [this]) or [that])[0]

One has to be careful with short-circuiting.  Despite my efforts to
point out some functional styles, sometimes plain ole 'if' blocks are
still clearer.

Yours, David...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies of
the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 10:12:09 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:12:09 -0500
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203291353040.8440-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <3ca47917.18551297@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <Ev%o8.18846$Ou.9725@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
message news:3ca47917.18551297 at news.tudelft.nl...
[ ... ]
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> >
> >I'd really like to see a Python mail/newsreader. That would teach you a
lot,
> >and keep you busy for a while...
> >
> It would teach me indeed, especially since I know next to nothing
> about mail/news protocols :) But why would you specifically want a
> Python mail/newsreader, when there are plenty of good mail/newsreaders
> around?

Because I could modify the Python code to0 make it behave in ways the "good"
mail/newreaders don't. Specifically, I could have it interact with a
relational database rather than a file-based message store.

regards
 Steve






From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 12:06:08 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:06:08 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
In-Reply-To: <E04538FF-369C-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov>
References: <slrna8su7t.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <E04538FF-369C-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov>
Message-ID: <20020313170608.GB2611@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 09:10, rasmussn at lanl.gov ?crivit:
> 
> On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 02:54 PM, phil hunt wrote:
> >
> >Lying to get money = fraud
> >
> >I think MicroShit's directors and laywers should be banged up for a
> >few years.
> 
> Let me throw out a different interpretation on Microsoft's actions.
> 
> As I was reading Microsoft's license, I thought of it in relation to
> the GPL.
> Maybe Microsoft is just covering it's backside so that users of their
> products won't use it in ways that will break the GPL. [...]

I cannot imagine they'd waste a thought on wether their users break
other people's/companies licenses, because there's no way Microsoft
could get into trouble because of that.

So that only leaves that they're spreading FUD intentionally.

Btw. all EULUs contain something like: "To the maximum extent permitted
by applicable law [bla bla bla]". The reason is that often, their
requirements do not conform to some national laws. One example is
reverse-engineering binaries, which *is* legal in some countries (using
the retrieved information commercially is of course a different matter).

I don't know the legal term for this, but there are certain rights which
you cannot give away, even if you "agree" to in a contract.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 17.0 ?C      Wind: 2.8 m/s



From john at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 21:18:45 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:18:45 GMT
Subject: is there gonna be a Core Python Programming 2e ?
Message-ID: <codq9uko6ueumep852po13m6pbtfs3r2ts@4ax.com>

I was wondering if there was plans on CPP 2e ?  (no its not c++, core
python programming, lol)
If so i would ask for a better binding than what is on CPP.  I would
even pay more than what the current CPP is at now.

Rob


From jacobs at darwin.epbi.cwru.edu  Fri Mar  8 07:36:51 2002
From: jacobs at darwin.epbi.cwru.edu (Kevin Jacobs)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 12:36:51 GMT
Subject: need something like __init__ in classes __classinit__
References: <efc75b6a.0203072331.66cd338f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6ab93$ien$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Jens Gelhaar <cuiod-tec at web.de> wrote:
> class metaclass(type):
>    def __new__(cls):
>        cls.__classinit__(...)

> class primary(Persistent):
>    __metaclass__=metaclass
>    def __classinit__(cls):
>      << do something ...>

> I get a error message, that I can not inherit from to different
> metaclasses.

I'm not sure my advise will help with ExtensionClasses, since I don't know
enough about how it is implemented.  Here is how I think it can be done
without changing the Python core:

  class ClassInit(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, cls_dict):
      # Transform __classinit__ into a static method
      class_init = cls_dict.get('__classinit__',None)
      if class_init:
        cls_dict['__classinit__'] = staticmethod(class_init)

      # Call super instead of type.__new__ to allow cooperative metaclasses
      return super(ClassInit,cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, cls_dict)

    def __init__(self, name, bases, cls_dict):
      # Call __classinit__ if it exists and is callable.
      # This cannot be done in __new__ since the class may not be completely
      # initialized by its metaclasses.
      if callable(getattr(self, '__classinit__',None)):
        self.__classinit__(self)

  class ClassInitObject(object):
    __metaclass__ = ClassInit

  class Persistent:
    pass

  class primary(ClassInitObject,Persistent):
    def __classinit__(cls):
      print "In __classinit__:",cls
    def __init__(self):
      print "In __init__:",self

  p=primary()

The output is then:
  In __classinit__: <class '__main__.primary'>
  In __init__: <__main__.primary object at 0x812961c>

So the trick is to use multiple inheritance to allow multiple metaclasses. 
I have no idea if this will work with an ExtensionClass, but its much more
likely than getting Guido to support __initclass__ in the Python core.
(Anyway, this will certainly work with the ZODB from Zope3.)

I'll add this trick to my growing list of metaclass hacks.  If anyone is
interested, I'll post them on my website later today.  Here is the current
list of magic metaclasses:

  o A metaclass that lazily instantiates slots so that you can write:

    class A(object):
      __metaclass__ = LazySlotBuilder
      __slots__ = ('a')

    class B(object):
      __metaclass__ = LazySlotBuilder
      __slots__ = ('b')

    class AB(A,B):
      pass

    Without the metaclass magic, this would will result in a layout
    conflict: TypeError: multiple bases have instance lay-out conflict

  o A metaclass that adds constraint checking to attributes and slots.  This
    can be used to implement type checking in Python:

      class A(object):
       __metaclass__ = ConstrainedObject
       __slots__ = {'a':int,'b':float}

      class B(A):
        __attrs__ = {'c':str}

      foo=B()

      foo.a = foo.b = foo.c = 1

      assert foo.a == 1
      assert foo.b == 1.0
      assert foo.c == "1"
      assert type(foo.a) == int
      assert type(foo.b) == float
      assert type(foo.c) == str

      foo.a = 'Hello'  # Throws a ValueError from trying to run int('Hello')

  o A tuple building metaclass that allows access to tuple elements by name
    as well as by index.  There is also a version that allows access to
    elements by name in a case-insensitive manner.  These objects are very
    useful as a replacement for DB-API row tuples, which is why I call them
    Row objects:

      ABCRow=RowMetaClass(['a','b','c'])
      r=ABCRow( (1,2,3) )

      assert r['a']==r[0]==r.a==1
      assert r['b']==r[1]==r.b==2
      assert r['c']==r[2]==r.c==3

      ABCRow=InsensitiveRowMetaClass(['a','b','c'])
      r=ABCRow( (1,2,3) )

      assert r['a']==r['A']==r[0]==r.A==r.a==1
      assert r['b']==r['B']==r[1]==r.B==r.b==2
      assert r['c']==r['C']==r[2]==r.C==r.c==3
 
  o The above ClassInit metaclass.

Regards,
-Kevin

--
Kevin Jacobs
The OPAL Group - Enterprise Systems Architect
Voice: (216) 986-0710 x 19         E-mail: jacobs at theopalgroup.com
Fax:   (216) 986-0714              WWW:    http://www.theopalgroup.com


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar 11 18:17:38 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:17:38 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (fwd)
Message-ID: <OFC4C0956C.2F243EC9-ON88256B79.007ADFA3@i2.com>

[James_Althoff at i2.com]
> ...
> But if your protocol is
>     def getRowCount(): pass
>     def getColumnCount(): pass
>     def getValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
>     def setValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
> then that option is not available.

[Tim Peters]
> Hmm.  The inability to pass a new value to setValueAt seems to make
> this a little feeble <wink>.

Ah, but is it feeble or is it *omniscient*?

Actually, I did it this way just to be consistent; I make the same mistake
when I type it in code, too.


The suggestions below are nice -- although our particular (Java-based)
context leaves us still with a few spanners to deal with.


> Depending on how much overhead you're willing to bear, it's
> straightfoward to write wrapper classes (even using the old
> for/__getitem__ protocol) such that, e.g., adding 1 to every
> element in a table could be expressed via
>
> t = Table(original_table)
> for r in t.rows():
>     for e in r.elements():
>         e.set(e.get() + 1)

This is nice.  We have noticed that there can be a hit in Jython the first
time you instantiate a Python subclass of a Java class (it seems to build
some internal structures based on a lot of Java reflection).  We could
implement a Java subclass instead.  But we are trying to minimize the
appearance of needing to resort back to Java for what are probably obvious
reasons.  But I think it might be worth having this option for times when
performance isn't an issue and looping through all rows or columns is
required.  I would rather do it with the new iterator stuff that is
available in C-Python, but ... oh well.

> Short of that, you could at least reduce the clumsiness by
> defining helper functions, like (assuming these are 0-based
> indices; fiddle to taste):
>
> def ri(table):
>     "Return row indices for table."
>     return range(table.getRowCount())
>
> def ci(table):
>     "Return column indices for table."
>     return range(table.getColumnCount())
>
> and then
>
> columns = ci(table)
> for i in ri(table):
>     for j in columns:
>          table.setValueAt(i, j, table.getValueAt(i, j) + 1)
>
> would save some typing yet be just as quick.  Add
>
> def getter(table):
>     "Return bound table.GetValueAt."
>     return table.GetValueAt
>
> def setter(table):
>     "Return bound table.SetValueAt."
>     return table.SetValueAt
>
> and then
>
> get, set = getter(table), setter(table)
> columns = ci(table)
> for i in ri(table):
>     for j in columns:
>          set(i, j, get(i, j) + 1)
>
> would be about as fast as you can get in Python, short of defining a
custom
> "add 1 to element and then store it back" function.

Some helper functions might be convenient.  They would be most convenient
in a helper utility module, of course, so that we could standardize them
for the entire development team.  A twist that we have to live with is that
the 3rd party components are not always consistent with each other.  JTable
and DefaultTableModel both use "getRowCount()".  So we could have a generic
function for these.  But another 3rd party component uses "getNumberOfRows
()" instead.  So we would have to do the try:except:/hasattr/isinstance
stuff to make the helper functions generic.  Probably worth giving it a
try.


> If you're very concerned about speed, when you've got a choice the loop
with
> the largest trip count should be innermost (as true in Python as in any
> other language, although this is clawing at what are usually third-order
> effects).

Thanks for the suggestions.

Jim




From michaelteo at bigfoot.com  Tue Mar 19 10:20:07 2002
From: michaelteo at bigfoot.com (Michael Teo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:20:07 +0800
Subject: Detecting corrupted .pyc files
Message-ID: <slrna9elp7.lgo.michaelteo@linux1.localdomain>

Does the python interpreter has some mechanism for checking whether the .pyc 
files are corrupt before running it ?
Thanks for replying.

-- 
Michael Teo <mailto:michaelteo at bigfoot.com>
http://miketeo.net/
PGP  0x6C846A9C  DB:7D:51:D4:4D:AB:97:79:E4:68:D9:07:94:36:D5:1A:6C:84:6A:9C
     0x6937FB05  08:50:A1:4D:2E:45:58:60:DE:71:1F:30:63:54:EF:7B


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 13:35:49 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:35:49 -0800
Subject: socket
In-Reply-To: <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
	<CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com>
	<trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020315103549.4575e9bb.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:01 GMT
Billy Ng wrote:

> Nothing evil here.  I have 2 reasons why I would do this program.  Firs,
it
> is my TCP/IP concept class's project.  Basically, I want to try what the
> book tells in to code, but I notice it does not work the way it says in
so
> many commercial SMTP servers.  Second, I have been unemployed for about 4
> months.  My friend's company needs a program to verify the users who
> registered to their service.  They found out many registered users were
> using fake addresses.  I just want to try this program to see if I will
get
> a job there.  That's all!  I really do appreciate if you would provide
any
> info for me to complete this project.

Why not do like many others do: send a confirmation email to the address
and require a reply from that address to complete registration.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 12:55:07 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:55:07 -0600
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <a7svvf$btf$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <1010a26.0203262213.4a0d4b11@posting.google.com>
        <3CA16839.1A21E36A@engcorp.com>
        <mailman.1017234342.12592.python-list@python.org>
        <a7svvf$btf$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <15522.1915.63435.392960@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> Or, in 2.2, the new hotshot module, which is a lot more efficient at
    >> profiling than the profile module.

    aahz> Where is hotshot?  I don't see it anywhere.  It's not even on the
    aahz> Vaults of Parnassus.

It's part of the standard library in 2.2.  There is a hotshot.py Python
module in Lib and a _hotshot.c extension module in Modules.  The only docs
at this point are Fred's slides from IPC10.  Look here

    http://www.python.org/workshops/2002-02/

for Powerpoint and Postscript versions.

Skip



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 19:39:51 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 00:39:51 GMT
Subject: Symbolic imports and manipulation of the namespace?
References: <mailman.1017180521.5865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7r4cn$en4$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:12:09 -0700, VanL <vlindberg at verio.net> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I was recently solving a problem which required that the config file 
>(just a python file) lie outside of the pythonpath.  Is it possible to 
>do symbolic importation of a module?
>
>For example, I had:
>
># cfgpath is passed in on the command line
>cfgpath = os.path.basename(cfgpath)
>sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
>import sc_cfg     #Hardcoded config module name!
>
>
>How do you do this:
>
># cfgpath is passed in on the command line
>cfgpath, cfgfile = os.path.split(cfgpath)
>sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
>import cfgfile     #Hardcoded config module name!
>
>So that any file name (ending with .py, of course, but that's another 
>matter) could be the configfile?
>I tried the above, but I got an ImportError (no module named cfgfile)
>
>Thanks,
>
see if help(__import__) helps decide if you need to worry
about default arguments.

 >>> cfgfile = 'xxx.py'
 >>> import cfgfile
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 ImportError: No module named cfgfile
                              ^^^^^^^---Notice
 >>> __import__(cfgfile)
                ^^^^^^^--Notice
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 ImportError: No module named xxx.py
                              ^^^^^^---Notice
 
Looks like you may need to drop the '.py' if your cfgpath has one,
or it will think package syntax. Also you have to do something
with the __import__() return value, like maybe (untested)

  cfgmodule = __import__(cfgfile.split('.py')[0])

I haven't used this, so it's theory for you to test ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Tue Mar 19 05:56:31 2002
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:56:31 +0000
Subject: Scrolling line number Tkinter
References: <3C8E84AA.4070306@club-internet.fr> <a6n530$sia$1@mail1.wg.waii.com> <3C911DCC.5010605@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a775ee$5o2$1@mail1.wg.waii.com>

Fabien Henon wrote:

> Martin Franklin wrote:
> 
>> Fabien Henon wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>I am currently writing a text editor for POV-RAY under Windows using
>>>Tkinter. It should be working as well with linux and Mac.
>>>
>>>To display the line numbers, I use a scrolling column at the left of the
>>>editor with a text box.
>>>
>> 
>> Can you please explain what a scrollng column is? Perhaps if you post
>> some code we could help some more.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>I also linked the main text editor with a scroll.
>>>
>>>My problem is that the text editor is well linked to the scroll, but the
>>>line numbers do not move when I use the arrow cursors.
>>>
>>>Thanks for any help
>>>
>>>Fabien
>>>
>> 
>> It sounds like you need to link both the scrolled column and text box to
>> the same scrollbar....
>> 
> What I mean by scrolling column is a column in which are displayed all the
> line number of the text.
> 
> I want this column of lines to scroll with the edited text.
> 
> 
> cheers.

By Column you mean Frame widget?

It's wierd I've just finished writing a Text box with an optional line 
number counter down the side....... basically the code boils down to this:-



f=Frame(self)
# self.textaree is the main text box (also happens to be a Pmw 
# ScroledText so I get dynamic scrollbars for free!
self.textarea=Pmw.ScrolledText(f, text_wrap='none')

# self.lineCounter is a Tk.Text widget I grid inside the 
# Pmw.ScrolledTextBox above so I can share the Pmw dynamic 
# scrollbars
#

self.lineCounter=Text(self.textarea.interior(), width=5, bg='grey', 
    state='disabled')
self.textarea.length=int(self.textarea.index('end').split('.')[0])
       
# I only bind the main textarea to the scroll bars cause it caused lots 
# of problems when I tried to bind both Text widgets.....
# this is taken care of whe I update the line counter...
self.textarea.component('text').config(yscrollcommand=self.yscrollset)
self.textarea._vertScrollbar['command'] = self.yscroll
        



# Scroll functions.....

    
def yscrollset(self, *stuff):
    ## print 'yscrollset called', stuff
    apply(self.textarea._vertScrollbar.set, stuff)
    self.lineCounter.yview_moveto(stuff[0])
    
    
def yscroll(self, *stuff):
    ## print 'yscroll called', stuff
    apply(self.textarea._textbox.yview, stuff)
    apply(self.lineCounter.yview, stuff)


def setLineCounter(self, *event):
    # should be called check_line_count
    # if the length of the main textarea (self.textarea) changes
    # then wake up and update the line counter
    new_length=int(self.textarea.index('end').split('.')[0])
    if new_length!=self.textarea.length:
        self.textarea.length=new_length
        self.updateLineCounter()
                
        # need to set scroll pos.... now? how do I do that__?
        apply(self.yscrollset, self.textarea._vertScrollbar.get())
                
    self.after(1, self.setLineCounter) # recurse.....



def updateLineCounter(self, *event):
    self.lineCounter.config(state='normal')
    self.lineCounter.delete('0.0', 'end')
    for line in range(1, self.textarea.length-1):
        self.lineCounter.insert('end', '%i\n' %line)
    self.lineCounter.insert('end', '%i' %(self.textarea.length-1))
    line, col = map(int, self.textarea.index("insert").split("."))
    self.lineCounter.mark_set("insert", "%d.0" %(line))
    self.lineCounter.config(state='disabled')
        




HTH,
Martin.




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Mar 31 17:21:02 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 14:21:02 -0800
Subject: OT: Daylight savings time (was Re: Subclass sadness (was Re:  [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type))
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <a85od6$9i$1@pani <yu99hemx1e8r.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1017555459.10956.python-list@python.org> <3CA73486.72B4059F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203311421.2a67402b@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3CA73486.72B4059F at engcorp.com>...
> Richard Jones wrote:
> > 
> > Hrm, just following this thought here, possibly for no good reason at all
> > (hey, it's Sunday, and daylight savings just ended so I've got a whole _hour_
> > extra to waste today :)... 
> 
> In which country?  Good thing it's not a work day, since I took your
> word for it last night...  or was that another advance April Fools joke?
> 

"daylight savings just *ended*" (my emphasis) -> try thinking "other
side of the equator"


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 07:38:33 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:38:33 +0000
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com> <uhen0vatp.fsf@online.no> <q0t6au4goc1q5ql38vq57qd3ec2ajhqpgl@4ax.com> <u1ye4p12b.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <pacbaukhfcvhoqbl0o22hlaijq1f6g3k9i@4ax.com>

Syver Enstad <syver-en+usenet at online.no> wrote:

>Here's what you need:
>
><python drop.reg>
>REGEDIT4
>
>[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shellex\DropHandler]
>@="{86C86720-42A0-1069-A2E8-08002B30309D}"
>
>[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.NoConFile\shellex\DropHandler]
>@="{86C86720-42A0-1069-A2E8-08002B30309D}"
></python drop.reg>

For some reason, this only drops the DOS 8.3 version of the filename.

Unfortunately, this breaks some of my routines so I'm back to using a
batch file wrapper for now.

--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From jessw at loop.com  Thu Mar  7 00:14:10 2002
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:14:10 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's? 
Message-ID: <3C8686A2.27247.BF1E41@localhost>

	I feel that this whole idea of picking the _most_obvious_ or 
_most_natural_ or even (as has been said sometimes), _any_ 
_practical_ or _useful_ meaning for the iter protocol for any given 
type is simply a bad idea.  As an example, look at the Warning 
about "for line in file:" thread.  Apparently, the xreadlines method, 
which is called invisibly by the iter method (also called semi-invisibly 
by the use of the in operator), has a problem with not leaving gaps 
in the files it reads.  None of this is at all obvious to the poor user 
using the obvious(and it is _obvious_, just not safe or meaningful) 
syntax of for line in file.  It is probably not even documented, 
because the documentation for the xreadlines method(where the 
explanation for the bug would be listed) is not connected to the 
documentation(wherever it would be) for the syntax trick of iter'ing 
files.  (Where would documentation be on that, actually?)
	This does not directly have to do with PEP 276's int iterator, but 
I believe that it shows a problem with the whole idea of hiding the 
mechanisms of what is going on through _practical_ meanings for 
the iter protocol.

				Jesse Weinstein



From garyr at fidalgo.net  Thu Mar 28 14:17:16 2002
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Garyr)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:17:16 -0800
Subject: Program termination problem
Message-ID: <ua6r509m5uradc@corp.supernews.com>

I have a program that displays a Tkinter Text widget. I would like to be
able to place text in the window via the clipboard. I found the following
clipboard code in a Google post:

import win32clipboard as clip
         ...
        clip.OpenClipboard(0)
        if clip.IsClipboardFormatAvailable(clip.CF_TEXT):
           newText = clip.GetClipboardData(clip.CF_TEXT)
          textwidget.insert(END, newText)
        clip.CloseClipboard()

This works but it causes the program to hang on exit. mainloop() returns but
the DOS window is frozen. The problem is associated with the clipboard
functions; i.e., commenting the insert line has no effect.

I'm using Python 2.1 (Pythonwin 2.1.211) on Win98.
Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Gary Richardson









From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar  4 22:42:30 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 12:42:30 +0900
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <87sn7g2stu.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna884ch.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <87it8b1xzt.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Huaiyu" == Huaiyu Zhu <huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com> writes:

    Huaiyu> To produce a kind of tar file, perhaps?

Those are tarbytes.  Explicit is better than implicit.

    Huaiyu> To send something through socket?

Verbatim low-level I/O would be permitted.  I would want them to be
restricted from being displayed literally by character-oriented
high-level functions like print, though.  If you want to use print on
them, convert them to something with an appropriate (trivial) __repr__
operation defined.

    Huaiyu> But if it in the end restricts the kind of operations that
    Huaiyu> can be performed on raw strings, it's simply untenable.

No.  Perhaps I haven't presented this well, but I don't care what you
do with blocks of raw memory, as long as they are a different type
from character strings and cannot be used as though they were
character strings.  _It's the use of character strings that I want to
restrict._  Confounding octets with characters is a horrible disease---
at XEmacs, we call it "Ebola."  It crashes editors and MUAs, it
corrupts text and destroys data, it may even cause your daughter to
decide to become a dentist and marry a marketing VP.

In the transition we have to decide what to do with the current
undifferentiated notation.  I suspect that people who use raw strings
to access data representation are far more aware of the issues than
people who think of them as "human readable text" that "just works."
Thus by the principle of "least surprise" I advocate that raw string
users use a new notation, while the (much larger and much more naive)
group of people who expect

    print 'And now for something completely different'

to do something useful would notice nothing new.

    print o'she turned me into a newt ... it got bettah'

would either error (my preference) or print something like a tuple of
integers.

    print Code86(o'spam, spam, eggs, and spam').disassemble()

would do what you think, if class Code86 were defined appropriately.

Yes, for people who use raw strings for access to representation
extensively, this would be a one-time PITA for the conversion to the
o'' notation (or whatever it turns out to be).

And it's probable that the representation in source would not be
one-to-one, ie the bytes would be encoded in uninterpreted UTF-8.
A raw string would be turned into an array of 16-bit integers by
the lexer, and the parser would then convert to an array of bytes
internally based on the o'' syntax.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 20 19:48:13 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:48:13 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016636073.1372.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C992DCD.A4DE955A@engcorp.com>

kosh at aesaeion.com wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Way, way down the list of things I look for in a resume
> > is the programming languages a candidate has.  Not entirely
> > unimportant, but useful only taken as a whole.  [...]  
> > Those with only a single language, or maybe two, probably 
> > didn't get hired.  Those with a dozen were more able to 
> > demonstrate their flexibility to me.
> 
> The problem I have with someone learning lots of languages is that most of
> what I have seen is that they never go beyond a surface level
> understanding of the language. So you end up seeing people that can
> essentially write C in any language or java etc. However in order to be
> really productive you need to know a language and know it very well. 

Completely agreed!  Understanding at least one language very well is
a necessary step before one can reach the point of being able to 
learn new languages quickly.  I took a long time to learn BASIC
(which is how I learned programming), then a perhaps slightly shorter
time learning C, and I accelerated rapidly in the subsequent languages.

> I would rather see someone that can demonstrate higher level 
> mastery with one language then a surface level with many.  

I would not hire either.  The latter is a dilettante, 
while the former has not generalized her experiences beyond
that one language and so is unable to contribute where
I really need the help.  Combine the two, now that's something.

> You can't get to more advanced features until you understand 
> all of the basic features. However once you learn those features 
> you are in a better position to apply them in another language.

Agreed, again, completely.  Even more than that, I would add that
you are then in a better position to understand the fundamentals
of *programming*, in a way you only understand with experience,
regardless of syntax.  The first language in which you encounter
"late binding" for example, may teach you very little about what
that really means in a broader sense.  The second time you learn
about it you'll start to see the forest, not just the trees.

-Peter


From edream at tds.net  Mon Mar  4 09:37:56 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:37:56 GMT
Subject: The Text Widget
References: <5Hzg8.72869$vP.290047@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C82E8C4.24531DE7@tds.net> <a5vcb6$2vbb$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C833DB8.6A4EB165@tds.net> <a5vr39$lps$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3C8386C3.181D1D48@tds.net>

Eric Brunel wrote:

> > Are you sure?
> 
> Yep. Definitely. In fact, we were doing the same thing than you: a syntax
> highlighting text editor. And we never did any after_idle in it, so you can
> do it just via regular bindings.

Thanks very much for this information.  I must have blundered somehow in
concluding that <KeyRelease> wouldn't work.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 28 21:22:22 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 02:22:22 GMT
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a80j4u$rhc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:48:28 +0000, philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Jim Dennis wrote:
>>> 
>>>  The core loop is something like:
>>> 
>>>         freq = {}
>>>         for line in file:
>>>                 for word in line.split():
>>>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
>>>                         else:                           freq[word] = 1
>>> 
>>>  (assuming Python2.2 for file interation and dictionary membership
>>>  support using "in."  I *really* like those 2.2 features!  They make
>>>  my psuedo-code so executable!)
>>
>>Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
>>
>>would probably be faster, and it's a little simpler I think,
>>although I could see an argument that it's less readable.
>>Also doesn't depend on 2.2.
>
>IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works 
>correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
>
>IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
>
Since successful freq[word]+=1 is the rule (in proportion to the final frequency ;-)
it should be cheap to write

    try:
        freq[word] += 1
    except KeyError:
        freq[word] = 1

Do I misremember a timbot post to that effect?

Or is "try:" more expensive than all the rest ("if word in freq",
"if freq.has_key(word)", and "freq.get(word,0)") ?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From boris.huart at mathworks.fr  Tue Mar 26 13:16:10 2002
From: boris.huart at mathworks.fr (Boris Huart)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:16:10 +0100
Subject: communication with a java applet
References: <3C9F100D.BAB4F24D@hotmail.com> <57de9986.0203251218.6e42a9ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA0BAE9.33B4C155@mathworks.fr>

Hi Giles,

Thanks a lot for your help, I take the liberty to save your adress in case it doesn't work
out ;). Thanks again,

Bye,

Boris

Giles Brown wrote:

> Looping <looping002 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3C9F100D.BAB4F24D at hotmail.com>...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am trying to make a real-time system communicate with a java applet
> > under IE 5.5. I only have a pyd file (Python 1.5.2) to get the floats
> > calculated on the platform and I wonder how to make the platform
> > communicate with my java applet : TCP/IP, CORBA, shared memory,
> > others... ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any advices,
>
> Its relatively straightforward to get Python and Java to talk over
> sockets.
> If you want to send data in a binary format then on the Python side of
> things there is the "xdrlib" (I'm assuming this was present in Python
> 1.5.2 as I don't have 1.5.2 installed anymore).  On the Java side
> you'd want to get hold of a DataInputStream (or DataOutputStream).
> Something like:
>
> DataInputStream dis = new DataInputStream(mySocket.getInputStream()) ;
> double nextValue = dis.readDouble() ;
>
> Good luck,
> Giles

--
Sinceres salutations,

Boris HUART                        [mailto:boris.huart at mathworks.fr]

____________________________________________________________________

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                                Fax : 01 55 64 06 64
  20 rue Troyon               Email : mailto:consulting at mathworks.fr
  92316 Sevres Cedex, France    Web : http://www.mathworks.fr
____________________________________________________________________




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 29 15:04:13 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:04:13 -0500
Subject: optional pass? (was Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python
 news and  links (Mar 26))
In-Reply-To: <slrnaa9a0l.hq8.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEOFOIAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Alexandre Fayolle]
> Why don't you put a docstring ? It will help you document precisely what
> you had in mind when writing the class, and you can keep it when you
> actually write the code.

[phil hunt]
> 3 reasons.

Note that this is also a docstring:

    ''

It's two fewer characters than "pass", and right next to the colon key for
ease of rapid typing <wink>.

> ...
> class Foo:
>    def method1(self):
>    def method2(self):
>    def method3(self):
>    def method4(self):
>    def method5(self):

You realize there's no chance Guido will go for this, right?  It looks like
5 errors of omission.




From gerritvd at decillion.net  Tue Mar 19 04:51:32 2002
From: gerritvd at decillion.net (gerritvd at decillion.net)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:51:32 +0200
Subject: Excel AddIn
Message-ID: <3C970A23.4DE8C406@decillion.net>

Hi All,

I would like to write an addin for Excel. I have a COM server running
that is accessible via Excel. I would however like this server to be
available in Excel as an addin. Has anybody done this successfully? Any
pointers or help  in this regards would be appreciated.

Regards
Gerrit van Dyk



From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Mar 29 10:12:26 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:12:26 +0100
Subject: Simple threaded web-server based on BaseHTTPServer?
References: <rq768.109$ti7.170403328@news.telia.no> <3C5976D0.A3A63A46@stroeder.com> <a3cbdq$muv$1@panix2.panix.com> <3CA36D8D.1080204@stroeder.com> <a80n06$i0c$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4845A.8050203@stroeder.com>

Aahz wrote:
 > In article <3CA36D8D.1080204 at stroeder.com>, 
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=
 > <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
 >
 >> Aahz Maruch wrote:
 >>
 >>> In article <3C5976D0.A3A63A46 at stroeder.com>, Michael
 >>> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=  <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> In my case (http://web2ldap.de) I'm using threaded BaseHTTPServer but
 >>>> I'm not really happy with it. Especially since I have to use a module-wide
 >>>> lock to serialize calls into python-ldap module because the
 >>>> underlying OpenLDAP libs are not thread-safe. This can block the whole
 >>>> thing and killing threads on e.g. Linux is not possible. Having a
 >>>> single-process asyncore design would probably make things easier.
 >>>
 >>> Add another thread to serialize things instead of using a
 >>> module-wide lock.
 >>
 >> I really wonder how this helps if the call into the underlying module
 >> really blocks. BTW: In opposite to my original statement an asyncore
 >> design would also not help since the underlying OpenLDAP lib is not
 >> designed that way.
 >
 >
 > I made my suggestion in the context of assuming that your server threads
 > can continue to interact with the user while waiting for the LDAP call to
 > complete.  One possible option would be to have your server's LDAP thread
 > call out to another LDAP server that you write to fork off processes
 > (that's assuming the LDAP library is concurrent across multiple processes,
 > of course).

I apologize for not making the situation clear enough.

In fact I have a web server acting as a web gateway to the LDAP server. Each 
HTTP request is served by a thread. If a LDAP call in one HTTP server thread 
blocks forever other HTTP requests resulting in a LDAP call can't progress 
since I have to serialize all calls into the LDAP lib which is not 
thread-safe with a thread lock. IMHO a separate Queue.Queue approach does 
not help.

I already thought about having a thread lock with a timeout since I would 
assume that after e.g. 60 seconds the web client causing the blocking 
request already gave up and I would not care about the old request being 
served falsely. Does anybody have a code snippet for a thread lock with timeout?

I also thought about forking. But I work with persistent LDAP connections 
and therefore IMHO need a threaded environment.

Ciao, Michael.



From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Thu Mar  7 11:17:51 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:17:51 GMT
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <mailman.1015492232.3944.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PoMh8.71033$pN4.6052714@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

[Some attributions were lost already...]
In article <mailman.1015492232.3944.python-list at python.org>, 
Christian Tanzer wrote:
> Gerrit Muller <gerrit.muller at philips.com> wrote:
>> > >     Define "page".  If you say 800x600 you'd lose.
>> >
>> > Good question.  How would you define a page in terms of web design?
>> >
>> > Eliminating most if not all scrolling on reference pages seems
>> > particularly important. Some reference pages seem way too long.  And
>> > your point is well taken.  I have a large monitor, but I use relatively
>> > big fonts, so I'm only using 1024x768...
>> >
>> > Edward
>> <...snip...>
>> at this moment in time 1024*768 is a reasonable choice; the poor 14" CRT
>> users will need some scrolling, but all more lucky 15" LCD and 17" CRT
>> and above will have a scroll free overview.
> 
> You are assuming that everybody is wasting the full screen on the
> browser's window. That might be true for the average windows user but
> is not true in general. For instance, my monitor displays 1800x1024,
> but the browser gets only about 850x650 of that.
> 
> IMHO, software/web pages making such assumptions suck.

Right.  If you're making assumptions on a reference page I think the
following is reasonable:

Assume that the normal page is around 800x600 _only_ for the purposes
of limiting scrolling--that "one page" shouldn't need any scrolling
at 800x600.  Design the pages so that they will display okay (without
side-scrolling) at 640x480 and lower, though they may need vertical
scrolling at that depth.  Remember that low-resolution browsers are
becoming more and more popular as more handhelds get connectivity
(they often have resolutions around 320x200, cell phone browsers are
sometimes even smaller).  Ideally, the 320x200 window should display
without scrolling sideways (though possibly with a lot of up-and-down),
assuming the browser it uses is intelligent about image display.

One site that gets this part of web design right is the stereophile.com
site--I can read all their archives just fine in links (text-mode
browser, nicer than lynx), in an 80-character wide column.  There are
left and right navigation bars/ad areas, so the main content winds up
using only about 1/2 of the screen width, but it's readable only with
forward scrolling.

The current www.python.org does okay with this, too.

(Good rule of thumb: if links displays a site in a readable way, then
screen-readers for the visually impaired should work okay with the
site).

  Sumner



-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar  4 16:50:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 21:50:37 GMT
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <m3pu2orps5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015015924.5220.python-list@python.org> <m3n0xsouhc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a60q7d$oqo$0@216.39.172.122>

On 01 Mar 2002 22:20:47 +0100, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote:

>Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
>
>> Just to make sure I understand correctly, under Stephen's propsal would
>> 
>>     s = "\xff"
>> 
>> be correct?  I assume
>> 
>>     s = "?"
>> 
>> (a literal 0377 character) would be an error, yes?  
>
>Yes, on both accounts.
>
>> That is, when you saw "arbitrary binary data" you are referring to
>> non-printable octets in the source file, right?
>
>Correct (except that whether something is printable is in the eye of
>the beholder). On the source level, the four letters '\', 'x', 'f',
>'f' are not arbitrary binary - they follow a specific syntax.
>
>I actually doubt anybody is putting "arbitrary binary" data into
>source code. Instead, most such occurrences are likely "printable", if
>viewed in the encoding of the author of that code. Those would be
>outlawed, unless that encoding is UTF-8.
>
However, people will be wanting to put arbitrary data in strings, and
I think having 'xxx' define something other than 3 octets should be
separately controlled from whether the source is encoded in UTF-8 or
UTF-16 or whatever. Otherwise open('filexxx','wb').write('xxx') may
lose its meaning just because someone imported it into an editor
and wrote it out as UTF-8 for whatever reason (e.g., not intending to
change anything other than adding some comments in Japanese).

It may be convenient for some programs to have 'xxx' default to internal
UTF-8, but that means strings are strictly utf-8 sequences, and passing
'xxx' to .write() would probably imply passing the UTF-8 bytes.

So if you wrote open('fileyyy','wb').write('\xff') you would expect
to find the UTF-8 sequence, not one chr(0xff) -- oops, what is chr()
going to do? Shouldn't '#'+chr(0xff)+'#' be == '#\xff#' ?

I think changing the internal representation of unqualified-by-u quoted
strings to UTF-8 would be a very radical step, even as a controllable
option. To make it just blindly match source encoding would be more than radical.

With internal UTF-8 ordinary-string default encoding, I think there would
be a need for a plain old octet string as a different type (classical string?),
maybe corresponding to what we get now with latin-1 encoding and rendering,
for convenience. e.g., l'xxx' and maybe L'xxx' for the raw variant?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Mar  7 12:26:34 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:26:34 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015518734.6414.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-04F337.09263407032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015518734.6414.python-list at python.org>,
 "Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote:

> This surely doesn't have to be true. The for loop implicitly calls
> iter(seq) to get an iterator, and the if statement first tries to call
>   contains   when faced with an 'in' test. It's trivial to implement a
>   contains   method for type int that preserves the orthogonality.
> You're right though that the PEP should probably say whether it also
> proposes to implement   contains   for type int.

It doesn't have to -- x in y will fall back on __iter__ if it doesn't 
find a contains, won't it?  Of course implementing a matching contains 
method would be more efficient, if we wanted to actually encourage x in 
integer tests.


From Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz  Wed Mar 27 05:54:52 2002
From: Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:54:52 +0100
Subject: Newbie: What the 'PEP' means?
Message-ID: <a7s8jv$gcb$1@news.nextra.cz>

Hi,

Just curious -- what the acronym PEP with a number means?

Thanks,
  Petr

P.S.: RTFM expected, but anyway ;-)
--
Petr Prikryl (prikrylp at skil dot cz)




From maurelius01 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 18:08:58 2002
From: maurelius01 at hotmail.com (Marc)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:08:58 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <a7diqu$7am$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A680A.F00216D2@hotmail.com>


Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a at posting.google.com>,
> Marc <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >************************
> >file cbase01.py:
> >
> >class CBase:
> >    def __init__(self):
> >        self.cclass = None
> >        print "cbase"
> >
> >class CImStream(CBase):
> >    def __init(self):
> >        CBase.__init__(self)
> >        print "CImStream"
> >
> >*************************
> >in file wrappers_A01.py:
> >
> >import cbase01
> >reload(cbase01)
> >
> >class ImStream_SavedBitmaps(cbase01.CImStream):
> >    def __init__(self):
> >        cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
> >        print "SavedBitmaps"
> 
> Try:
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         cbase01.CImStream.__init__(self)
> 
> Why are you using reload(), anyway?
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> 
> "We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
> Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth

Oops.  That was a typo, but the same problem still
exists when I fix it.  (Originally, I had the line
cbase = cbase01 in there but I took it out before
posting. Then when I reran the program it still
worked because cbase was still loaded from the
previous run.)
I have the reload in there because I'm developing
this program now and I want to be able to change
different files without tracking down all of the
dependencies each time.  Is there another way?  Is
there a reason not to have it in?  I do think that
it's part of the problem, because the program
works if I remove it.  But I have no idea why I
must remove it, or what I'm doing wrong here that
makes reload a problem.
So here is my basic question: should I be able to
inherit class from another file.  The docs has the
statement:
""""There is a simple way to call the base class
method directly: just call
"BaseClassName.methodname(self, arguments)". This
is
occasionally useful to clients as well. (Note that
this only works if the base class is defined or
imported directly in the global scope.)"""
Does this mean the inherited class must be in the
same file if I'm to directly call a base class
member?  Or am I just hungup in some problem with
"reload".


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 20:20:20 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:20:20 -0000
Subject: Another socket/thread question
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net> <3C8FA777.8A5B07D1@accessforall.nl> <7934d084.0203131616.488b4ace@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8vumj.gf6.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <7934d084.0203131616.488b4ace at posting.google.com>, Andrae Muys wrote:
>> When you close the socket from another thread or by the server,
>> the pending socket.recv() should terminate with some error condition.
>> It's best to test both situations, however.
> 
> Far cleaner to open a control pipe to the thread and have the thread
> wait on both the socket and the pipe.

Why is that cleaner? Closing the socket from another thread and
expecting that to terminate the recv() should be fine.

On the other hand, I have had problems with that scenario before due
to buggy operating systems. I fixed it by select()ing on that socket
(and only that socket) before reading from it.


From pobrien at orbtech.com  Thu Mar 28 10:21:06 2002
From: pobrien at orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:21:06 GMT
Subject: interactive python shell
References: <mailman.1017254623.8656.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CxGo8.1313$BT6.132005@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

PyCrust does this. It is an embeddable Python shell and namespace viewer
written in Python using the wxPython gui toolkit. It now ships with
wxPython, but the version in CVS is more current and includes lots of unit
tests and subtle enhancements (some not so subtle as well). You can find it
here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust

There are a few projects that I know of using PyCrust in the way you
describe (it can also be used standalone). The most prominent is PythonCard.

http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

At the bottom of this page
(http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/layouteditor.html) you can see
screenshots of the namespace viewer and the shell in action in the
PythonCard environment. All PythonCard applications have access to a variety
of runtime tools, including PyCrust.

Now, here is the part that should interest you the most. When I created
PyCrust, I wanted it to be as flexible and extensible as possible. So all
the routines that depend on wxPython are in separate modules from those
rountines that don't, and the dependencies have been kept to a minimum. That
means you could borrow half the existing code and simply add the PyQt
interface on top. Or at least mine the code for ideas. Let me know if you
have any interest in this.

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech


"ian reinhart geiser" <geiseri at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017254623.8656.python-list at python.org...
>
> Greetings
> I have an python application and I would like to provide a "console" in
the
> application where users can have an interactive session with python that
has
> all of the applications enviroment.  This is for debugging the system in
real
> time.
>
> Is there an easy way to do this?  All it needs to do is execute commands
and
> return data.  I am using PyQt for my GUI, so it would be cool to fit into
> there, but I can get away with a input line and a display view if that is
> easier.  This is not for production, only to make a more useful debug
tool.
>
> TIA
>
> - -ian reinhart geiser





From jschmitt at ati.com  Fri Mar  8 19:46:27 2002
From: jschmitt at ati.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:46:27 -0800 
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
Message-ID: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE6C4@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cromwell, Jeremy [mailto:jcromwell at ciena.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:26 AM
> To: 'Python List'
> Cc: 'David Eppstein'; 'James_Althoff at i2.com'
> Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
[...]
> -Not a wart
> This is the most pythonic way to write an integer for loop.  
> I would oppose
> almost any change.
[...]

Definitely NOT a wart.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Chermside [mailto:mcherm at destiny.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 5:39 AM
> To: python-list
> Subject: Re: Status of PEP's?
> 
> 
> Not that my opinion means anything, but I'll go ahead and 
> express it anyhow.
> 
>   1) I think that  "for i in range(len(items)):"  is awkward, annoying,
>      and detracts from Python. There should be a better way.

Is it?  Other people have said things to that effect too.  To me it looks
straightforward, unambiguous and explicit.  I fail to see anything awkward
or annoying about it.  'Awkward' and 'annoying' sound like aesthetic issues
to me.  

I have yet to see any proposed syntax that is more obvious, or has more
generality, or has fewer restrictions.  The proposal should improve at
*least one* of these in order to be adopted by the community.

John
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From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Mar 28 21:22:36 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 21:22:36 -0500
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <ur8m478ds.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa7eem.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <uwuvwun83.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:

> Correct. IMO "try to do something sensible" should be the default.

No - "do something sensible" (read "do what the programmer intended
where different programmers intend different things and the language
is supposed to somehow guess which is right") is more along the line
of what Perl attempts (and quite well in many cases).  It's a valid
approach, but doesn't fit with Pythons approach to things.

> But 9 times out of 10, you'll want to use a default of 0.

Only in cases where the dictionary entry is a counter which will be
incremented, which is certainly far less than 90% of the time in my
code.

Remember also that this sort of rule can rear up and bite you in some
complex expression sometime where it wasn't as "sensible" what the
default behavior should be and not having the dictionary key in place
was really an error that was then hidden from view until it causes a
subtle problem at some later point in time.

Others have also pointed out ways (including some built-in default
approaches with Python 2.2's dictionary class) that you can provide
such support yourself as needed.  It doesn't belong in the base
behavior.

> Having to explicitly state things like this is a sign of low 
> levelnmess in a lang. Next you'll be arguing that explicit storage 
> management is a good thing.... :-)

Totally different things.  I think we can both agree on what the
semantics are of obtaining storage for an object and releasing it when
the object is done.  But this has to do with locating an object - you
want Python to "guess" at what I really wanted to get back when I
asked for a non-existent dictionary entry.  I don't want it to guess.
Nothing to do with high level versus low level.

> I have never had maintainability problems with the other way round.

That need not extrapolate to a general rule.  Personally I found that
this sort of approach works well for small quick scripts where I
really just want the answer and can play fast and loose with the
details of the operations I am detailing, but breaks down over time
and size.  You may not agree, but that's why there are other languages
to choose from that do take your preferred approach by default :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 12 14:25:14 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:25:14 GMT
Subject: Can we use print to print to more than sys.stdout?
References: <3C8E441E.4D64C8DA@impathnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <uCsj8.24571$n4.4824615@newsc.telia.net>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> #1) Is it possible to change print behavior to make it print to several
> streams?

class Tee:
    def __init__(self, *streams):
        self.streams = streams
    def write(self, text):
        for stream in self.streams:
            stream.write(text)

sys.stdout = Tee(sys.stdout, open("some.file", "w"), ...)

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From mnations at airmail.net  Sat Mar 30 13:41:55 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 10:41:55 -0800
Subject: Stopping a thread from an imported file
References: <4378fa6f.0203290918.21be5409@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203301041.3085aec9@posting.google.com>

One more thing that I've found. When I take the external file and
simply import it into the main file, I have the same problem. So
apparently the problem is not with the external file but with the way
the application is viewing the threads. I have debug statements
throughout telling me when the thread isActive or not active. Right
before I make the second call it shows me that the thread is not
active. Yet when I try to restart the thread, the error comes back
that it's already started. Here is the error:

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1292, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
  File "threadocn.py", line 46, in validation
    self.go_thread()
  File "threadocn.py", line 49, in go_thread
    self.thread1.start()
  File "C:\Python22\lib\threading.py", line 384, in start
    assert not self.__started, "thread already started"
AssertionError: thread already started

Thanks,
Marc



mnations at airmail.net (Marc) wrote in message news:<4378fa6f.0203290918.21be5409 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I am writing an application that has a front end Tkinter GUI and a
> back end process. The back end process is being imported into the GUI,
> which acts as the main thread in the program. When the 'GO' button is
> clicked, the GUI starts a thread which calls a function that sends
> control to the back end.
> 
> The problem is that when this function has ended, the thread does not
> die. So when the button is clicked to start the application again, it
> won't start because it thinks the thread is still active.
> 
> I have another thread within the GUI application that simply keeps
> track of elapsed time. I don't have the same problem with this thread
> which actually restarts every time the button is clicked. That, to me,
> is even more confusing, since I know that thread is still running. And
> since my experience with threads is limited, I'm simply going based on
> what works and what doesn't to get this program working, and I can't
> reason out what I've seen.
> 
> Which leads me to two questions:
> 1) When a function in an imported file completes, how does the thread
> in the main file know to stop.
> 2) If you can't restart a thread while it is active (which is the
> error I receive in the first thread) then how can the second thread
> simply restart when it is called again.
> 
> Here's the relevant code:
> 
> class GuiPart:
>         def __init__(self, master, endCommand, thread1, thread2):
>             self.endCommand = endCommand
>             self.thread1 = thread1
>             self.thread2 = thread2
> 
>             self.master = master
> 	    self.mainFrame = Frame(master)
> 
>             self.mainWindow = Frame(self.mainFrame)
> 
>             self.mainFrame.pack()
>             self.mainFrame.master.title("Running OCN cards")
>             self.mainWindow.pack()      
>             self.createWidgets()
>             
> 	def validation(self):
> 	    self.startTime = time.time()
> 	    flag = 0
> 	    
> 	    flag = self.validateIP( self.ipaddr.get() )
> 	    validOcn = self.var.get()
> 	    if validOcn == '':
> 		    showerror(title='Invalid OCN',message='Please select an OCN
> Type')
> 		    flag = 0
> 	    else:
> 		    flag = flag * 1
> 	    
> 	    if flag:
> 		    self.go_thread()    
> 
> 	def go_thread(self):
> 		self.thread1.setDaemon(1)
> 		self.thread2.setDaemon(2)
> 		self.thread1.start()
> 		self.thread2.start()
> 
> <...snip...>
> class ThreadedClient:
>     def __init__(self, master):
> 
>         self.master = master
>         self.ok = 1
>         self.thread1 = Thread(target = self.ocnRun)
>         self.thread2 = Thread(target = self.elapsedTime)
>         self.gui = GuiPart(master, self.endApplication, self.thread1,
> self.thread2)
> 
>         self.periodicCall()
> 
>     def periodicCall(self):
>         if not self.ok:
> 	    #os._exit(0)
> 	    sys.exit(0)
> 	self.master.after(100, self.periodicCall)
> 
>     def ocnRun(self):
> 	    print "In ocnRun"
> 	    counter, total =  0, 0
> 	    for testgroup, titles, groupRow, groupCol in self.gui.testGroups:
> 			for module, row, col, status, color in testgroup:
> 				modFlag = getattr(self.gui.modVar, module).get()
> 				total = modFlag * pow( 2, counter ) + total
> 				counter = counter + 1
> 
> 	    self.gui.slot = self.gui.list.curselection()
> 	    printAll( self.gui.ipaddr.get(), self.gui.var.get(),
> self.gui.list.get(self.gui.slot), total, self.gui.port.get(),
> 		      self.gui.filename_field.get(), self.gui.password.get(),
> self.gui.debug_field.get() , self.gui.debugVar.get(),
> 		      self.gui, self.gui.iterations.get() )
> 
>     def elapsedTime(self):
> 		curTime = time.time()
> 		eTime = curTime - self.gui.startTime
> 
> 		hours = str( int(eTime / 3600) )
> 		mins = str( int(eTime / 60) )
> 		secs = str( int(eTime) )
> 
> 		if atoi(hours) < 10:
> 			hours = '0' + hours
> 		if atoi(mins) < 10:
> 			mins = '0' + mins
> 		if atoi(secs) < 10:
> 			secs = '0' + secs
> 	
> 		elapsedTime = hours + ':' + mins + ':' + secs
> 		self.gui.elapsTime.insert(END, elapsedTime)
> 		self.gui.master.after(1000, self.elapsedTime)
> 
>     def endApplication(self):
>         self.ok = 0
> 
> """ Begin Main Processing """
> root=Tk()
> client = ThreadedClient(root)
> root.mainloop()
> 
> 
> 
> The first thread calls ocnRun which calls a function from an imported
> file. Somehow I need to tell ocnRun that PrintAll has stopped. But I
> assumed that would simply happen when PrintAll ran to completion.
> 
> Anyway, I think that's all the relevant information. I've read as much
> stuff on threads from this newsgroup and other resources as I could
> find, but still can't find the answer. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks ahead of time,
> Marc


From imcmeans at home.com  Sun Mar 17 04:23:39 2002
From: imcmeans at home.com (Ian McMeans)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:23:39 GMT
Subject: mixing regular expression
References: <D4Wk8.107090$eb.4892148@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <3C943641.CD0086B3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vgZk8.158111$kb.8662113@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>

my last message didn't get through, so I'm trying this again. Am I doing
something wrong?

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C943641.CD0086B3 at engcorp.com...
> Ian McMeans wrote:
> >
> > How should go I about nesting regular expressions in python?
> >
> > I want one huge regular expression to be composed of a bunch of others -
is
> > there some way I can include a regular expression inside another?
> >
> > Or should I do it with strings - just save each regular expression's
string,
> > and then compile each combination separately?
> >
> > What I mean is this:
> > foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
> > bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")
> >
> > big = re.compile("foo|bar")
> >
> > is that possible at all? To combine regular expression objects? Or do
you
> > suggest that I just make strings for foo and bar, and then compile the
> > combined strings into big?
>
> It seems to me you need to explain whether you want them concatenated
> (in which case can't you just join the pattern strings?), or ORed
> together (similar to the foo|bar case you give above?), or "nested"
> (which to me implies some kind of hierarchy) or maybe just applied
> sequentially (in which case just do that?).
>
> -Peter

Yeah, I think I'll end up joining the pattern strings. What I wanted to do
was create a new regular expression using the regular expressions that I've
already made, without doing it via string concatenation -- which, in
hindsight, isn't actually that hard to do.

Ideally, in my example above,
foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")
 big = re.compile("foo|bar")

would be equivalent to

big = re.compile("(someregexcode)|(moreregexcode)")

I wanted to do it that way so that I could make one regex at a time, test
it, and then include it in the larger expression.






From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Mar 20 22:48:33 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 03:48:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a78uvi$ff1$1@peabody.colorado.edu>  <upu1z31mr.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <slrna9im0h.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <upu1z31mr.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson wrote:
[...]
>Even in it's current state, the distutils package is an amazing piece
>of work.  I think people forget this sometimes.

Indeed -- I agree. It is absolutely wonderful. I didn't mean to imply
otherwise.

>Cheers,
>M.

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From grante at visi.com  Tue Mar 26 12:10:10 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:10:10 GMT
Subject: Deeply embedded Python still alive?
Message-ID: <SX1o8.573$vm6.188350@ruti.visi.com>

The link I have for the Deeply Embedded Python port
<http://www.abo.fi/~iporres/python/> has been broken for
several months now.  Anybody know what happened to that
project?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I wish I was a
                                  at               sex-starved manicurist
                               visi.com            found dead in the Bronx!!


From dgrisby at uk.research.att.com  Mon Mar 18 06:23:48 2002
From: dgrisby at uk.research.att.com (Duncan Grisby)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 11:23:48 GMT
Subject: Python + Omni CORBA libraries link
References: <3C95AF61.5D25C8CD@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> <a74e1m$hhp$1@pea.uk.research.att.com> <3C95C24A.D2B5D92F@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <a74io4$mpd$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>

In article <3C95C24A.D2B5D92F at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>,
 Viatcheslav Kulikov RWTH Aachen  <vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

>> >ImportError: DLL load failed: Das angegebene Modul wurde nicht gefunden.
>>
>> Can you translate that error please?
>
>"The requested module was not found" (sorry, an OS is German)

That probably means that the main omniORB DLL can't be found. Make
sure the omniORB bin\x86_win32 directory is on your path.

>Well, as I am quite new to the Python, I can't give the exact version of the
>package, but the compiler shows version 1.0.

That's the version of the IDL compiler, not omniORBpy.

>Also, all files of the package are dated 21-06-2001 as the latest.
>
>The module CORBA.py from the package shows the following ID:
>
># $Id: CORBA.py,v 1.27.2.3 2001/05/17 14:05:01 dpg1 Exp $

That is from omniORBpy 1.4. The simple way to tell is that the
omniORBpy directory has an empty file called THIS_IS_OMNIORBPY_1_4 in
it.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby  \  Research Engineer  --
  -- AT&T Laboratories Cambridge          --
   -- http://www.uk.research.att.com/~dpg1 --


From edream at tds.net  Mon Mar  4 19:28:50 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:28:50 GMT
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com> <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net>
Message-ID: <3C84113F.AA15F841@tds.net>

Oops, I meant to say:

  http://python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html

instead of

  C:\Python22\Doc\lib\lib.htm.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From ffjhenon at club-internet.fr  Thu Mar 14 17:01:48 2002
From: ffjhenon at club-internet.fr (Fabien Henon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:01:48 +0100
Subject: Scrolling line number Tkinter
References: <3C8E84AA.4070306@club-internet.fr> <a6n530$sia$1@mail1.wg.waii.com>
Message-ID: <3C911DCC.5010605@club-internet.fr>

Martin Franklin wrote:

> Fabien Henon wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am currently writing a text editor for POV-RAY under Windows using
>>Tkinter. It should be working as well with linux and Mac.
>>
>>To display the line numbers, I use a scrolling column at the left of the
>>editor with a text box.
>>
> 
> Can you please explain what a scrollng column is? Perhaps if you post some 
> code we could help some more.
> 
> 
> 
>>I also linked the main text editor with a scroll.
>>
>>My problem is that the text editor is well linked to the scroll, but the
>>line numbers do not move when I use the arrow cursors.
>>
>>Thanks for any help
>>
>>Fabien
>>
> 
> It sounds like you need to link both the scrolled column and text box to 
> the same scrollbar....
> 
What I mean by scrolling column is a column in which are displayed all the line number of the text. 

I want this column of lines to scroll with the edited text.


cheers.





From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Mar  9 16:50:43 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:50:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <a6dv55$phu$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020309135043.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 09-Mar-2002 Nick wrote:
> How do you get the ordinal value (ASCII) of a character? For example, to
> make a ROT13 program.
> 

>>> ord('A')
65




From jp_reed at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 17:59:58 2002
From: jp_reed at yahoo.com (Jeremy Reed)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 14:59:58 -0800
Subject: DSN question
Message-ID: <13a0323e.0203271459.14905cde@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to programmatically create a DSN?

I'm trying to create a program that connects to a MS SQL database
using the mxODBC package.  However, I don't necessarily want to
subject the users of the program to the task of manually creating a
DSN.  It seems to me that there should be some way to do it
programmatically, but I haven't been able to locate and documentation
on it.

Any information relating to this subject would be quite helpful.

Thanks and best regards,

Jeremy


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Mar  7 20:48:31 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:48:31 -0800
Subject: List of Dictionaries
References: <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C88186F.6BEFA3D2@alcyone.com>

Lenny Self wrote:

> When I add the first dictionary element to the list all is well.  When
> I add the second element to the list both the first and second element
> reference the second dictionary that was added.  The behavior
> continues whenever I add an element.  So, if I add, say 50
> dictionaries, all of the listes elements reference the last dictionary
> I added.
> 
> I don't have the code with me right now, but I can assure you it is
> easy as this:

The problem you're having crucially depends on you doing something wrong
in the details of your implementation.  You're going to have to show us
the _exact_ code that is causing this problem or it will be impossible
to help you.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From cuiod-tec at web.de  Fri Mar  8 02:31:22 2002
From: cuiod-tec at web.de (Jens Gelhaar)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 23:31:22 -0800
Subject: need something like __init__ in classes __classinit__
Message-ID: <efc75b6a.0203072331.66cd338f@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I tried it very hard, but no success. What I trying to do is

class test:
   def __classinit__(cls):
      << do something with the new class >>

class testsub(test):
   pass

Every time, when I inherit from class test, the function __classinit__
should be called.
Several month ego, some one gave my the hint to deal with the new type
(metaclass) concept from python 2.2. That was ok and helps me further.
But now I get stucked again. I have to inherit from Persistent (ZODB).
And this class does not work together with metaclass concept of python
2.2.

class metaclass(type):
   def __new__(cls):
       cls.__classinit__(...)

class primary(Persistent):
   __metaclass__=metaclass
   def __classinit__(cls):
     << do something ...>

I get a error message, that I can not inherit from to different
metaclasses.

Now, I had the idea to do it in a complete different way. Lets changed
it in the source and call each function "__classinit__" when a new
class is created. But it worked for "classic" classes, not for
inherited ones from "object" or "Persistent" of ZODB.

Now my question? Where to implement such a call. I did it in
"classobject.c" file, but without success. Beside, I would find it
very useful as a general behaviour. There is "__init__" for a new
instance, why not a "__classinit__" for a new class.

Here what i tried:


static PyObject *
class_new(PyTypeObject *type, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds)
{
  PyObject *name, *bases, *dict;
  PyClassObject *op;
  PyClassObject *dummy;
  PyObject *classinit, *res;
  static char *kwlist[] = {"name", "bases", "dict", 0};

  if (!PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords(args, kwds, "SOO", kwlist,
       &name, &bases, &dict))
       return NULL;
  op = (PyClassObject *)PyClass_New(bases, dict, name);
  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  if (classinitstr == NULL)
      classinitstr=PyString_InternFromString("__classinit__");
  if (op != NULL && PyClass_Check(op)) {
     classinit = class_lookup(op, classinitstr, &dummy);
     if ((classinit != NULL)) { // && PyMethod_Check(classinit)) {
         res=PyEval_CallMethod((PyObject *)op, "__classinit__", "(O)",
op);
     }
  }
  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! END NEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
  return (PyObject *)op;
}


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Fri Mar 29 17:09:00 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:09:00 -0600
Subject: Help with POST request.
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062334CFB1C@mail.hebmex.com>

Hello all.

I'm having some trouble using the BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler
class.

It says in it's internal documentation, that to process
a GET or a POST request (or HEAD, or whatever), just define
a do_<COMMAND> method in a derived class, and let'r rip.

Well, I'm having some trouble accepting POST requests.
GET requests work like a charm, really nice and quick,
but POST requests stay hung and I have to kill them
from the browser.

I'm surely doing something wrong, but I really don't know
how. Here's the script I'm playing with:

===========================================================
import BaseHTTPServer

SIMPLE_WEB_FORM = """ ... a little web page in HTML ..."""

class TestHTTPRequestHandler(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
    def test_response(self):
        # Always so positive.
        self.send_response(200)
        self.send_header("Content-type", "text/html")
        self.end_headers()

    def do_GET(self):
        self.test_response()
        self.wfile.write(SIMPLE_WEB_FORM)

    def do_POST(self):
        self.test_response()
        print "-" * 60
        print self.rfile.read()
        print "-" * 60
        self.wfile.write(SIMPLE_WEB_FORM)

BaseHTTPServer.test(TestHTTPRequestHandler, BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer)

===========================================================

OK, the problem is I can't ever see what's being sent via POST,
it hangs when reading from the rfile object.

I'd appreciate any and all comments.
-- 
Gustavo C?rdova Avila
> gcordova at sismex.com
? 8351-3861 | 8351-3862



From quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu  Thu Mar 14 14:57:44 2002
From: quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 19:57:44 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9205o.f1.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 13 Mar 2002 11:34:55 -0500, ruud de rooij <*@spam.ruud.org> wrote:
>perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
>(analogous to dictionaries).

This would also make writing polymorphic code easier.  I sometimes write
methods that work on both dicts and lists and find myself doing stuff like

if hasatttr(o, 'keys'):
    ks = o.keys()
else:
    ks = range(len(o))


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Sun Mar 31 14:28:26 2002
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:28:26 +0200
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a87o0g$pm2$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> schreef in bericht
news:a8614l$dfa$1 at panix1.panix.com...
<...snip...>
> Please vote for no more than three.

win32all
HTMLgen

regards Gerrit




From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 29 09:36:14 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:36:14 -0800
Subject: number of lines in a file
References: <b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <a81ufa$p2r32$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Joseph Youssef
> hello, I am nwe to Python and I'm trying to write this 
> script but I need it to check how many lines is in 
> the file and I don't know how so I'm hoping someone 
> could tell me.


len(open('/path/and/filename').readlines())

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Mar 19 17:02:07 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 16:02:07 -0600
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <slrna9fded.t9.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F50A699B9489EA1E.516A142092C780C6.D7DA5E45732D7660@lp.airnews.net>

In article <slrna9fded.t9.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:33:48 GMT, Ahmed Moustafa <amoustafa at pobox.com> wrote:
>>1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
>
>Python is easier to write programs in than Java, but they might run 
>slower.
			.
			.
			.
Or faster.  And it's more difficult to write some programs
in Python than Java.

But, yes, for the most part, Python's friendlier, and less
concerned with performance in the way Java is, in some senses
which can be made objective, but are barely worth the trouble
to do so.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:17:38 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:17:38 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>


Uwe Schmitt wrote:

> [ This is a repost of the following article:                               ]
> [ From: Uwe Schmitt <uwe at rocksport.de>                                     ]
> [ Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem                            ]
> [ Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.wxwindows                                      ]
> [ Message-ID: <a7l70a$7s5pq$3 at hades.rz.uni-sb.de>                          ]
>
> Hi,
>
> when I try the following function on a linux machine I get an input
> mask consisting of a label and an input field. If i run it under
> Windows 2k, the label does not appear, and the inputfield is rendered
> into the first field of the grid...
>
> Here is the procedure:
>
>    def testtt(window):
>
>         basicSizer = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)
>
>         gridSizer= wxFlexGridSizer(cols=2)
>
>         t=wxStaticText(window, -1, "Eingabe:")
>         gridSizer.Add(t, wxALL | wxALIGN_RIGHT)
>         tt=wxTextCtrl(window, -1, "", size=wxSize(100,-1))
>         gridSizer.Add(tt, wxALL |wxALIGN_LEFT)
>
>         gridSizer.SetSizeHints(window)
>         gridSizer.Fit(window)
>         window.SetSizer(gridSizer)
>         window.SetAutoLayout(true)
>
>         window.ShowModal()

Are you sure that you want to use ShowModal()??  How are you setting up your
window?

This function looks okay to me, as far as it goes, but it's hard to say what
might be going on if we don't know where window is coming from.  I presume that
it's a wxDialog of some sort?  If so, why aren't you subclassing wxDialog and
putting this code in your __init__(), then calling ShowModal() from the function
that creates the dialog?

(You might also have better luck getting answers for this, if you ask on the
wxpython-users mailing list -- see wxpython.org to subscribe.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Mon Mar 18 07:55:01 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 06:55:01 -0600
Subject: why python for the academe?
References: <mailman.1016330427.15737.python-list@python.org> <3C947318.B0E80317@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <0D3D6E1F7E9F9F51.ADC87E3B3D4C8072.F8EC494A26A0B22B@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3C947318.B0E80317 at kfunigraz.ac.at>,
Siegfried Gonzi  <siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at> wrote:
>huck wrote:
>> 
>> hello all,
>> 
>> i've been lurking for a while and am amused at how
>> many people in the list here use python for scientific
>> computing. why not matlab (or octave or scilab or whatever)?
			.
		[lots of points I'll
		leave to stand on
		their own]
			.
			.
>Python with the right combination (numerical libraries and plotting
>libraries) is much more flexible than lets say Matlab or IDL. What you
>buy with Matlab is a huge repository of pre-compiled code. Scientist
>normally do not get paid for programming (curiosity: but they do
>programming  all the time) and a great many are not very well educated
>how to glue together libraries. Personally, I switched to Windows (even
			.
			.
			.
>buy my study and not expect to get it for free. Free software is not all
>that good as a great many of people want to make believe us.
>
>S. Gonzi

Commercial software is not as good as its marketers
try to make people believe.  Software generally is
... of limited quality.

Yes, people on this list-newsgroup use Python to do
scientific programming.  If comp.lang.awk can discuss
matrix inversion in awk ...!

Mr. Gonzi's characterization is apt.  While Matlab's
rather wonderful stuff, it's not designed as a pro-
gramming system.  It offers lots of "canned stuff",
but isn't satisfying as a programming language.
Abstraction of Matlab applications is obscure. 
Python is a beautiful programming language, and sup-
ports far more sophisticated design.

Python also "glues" better.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From yoast at whu.edu.cn  Sun Mar 24 07:27:57 2002
From: yoast at whu.edu.cn (yoast)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:27:57 +0800
Subject: about popen and gnuplot
Message-ID: <200203241222.UAA20782@email.whu.edu.cn>

dear all,
	i have a question about popen and gnuplot.
	i got an example from ASPN, used to drive gnuplot with python 
on __win32___  platform. the code looks like below.

import os
f=os.popen('d:/xxx/pgnuplot.exe', 'w')
print >>f, "p sin(x)"
f.flush()

	i can see the gnuplot's interactive window, but can't
see the plot window. why? what should be done to make it
work? i see the code of gnuplot.py (a sourceforge project),
the code in that script is absolutely same as mine :(

best regards,
yoast at whu.edu.cn
3.24

From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Tue Mar  5 02:45:20 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (A.Newby)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 07:45:20 GMT
Subject: bsddb for beginners?
Message-ID: <Xns91C8BEB63FDAFAusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>

I want to get into databases, but most of the tuts around seem to be over 
my head. 

For instance, looking through the standard Python documentation for bsddb 
module, 7.12 bsddb -- Interface to Berkeley DB library, doesn't really 
explain what all the syntax is for. For instance, this example ......

>>> import bsddb
>>> db = bsddb.btopen('spam.db', 'c')
>>> for i in range(10): db['%d'%i] = '%d'% (i*i)

....... obviously creates a database file which behaves a dictionary. If I 
type 

>>>db.keys()

... I get a complete a list of the dictionary's keys (0 - 9). But why? And 
how do I store values in those keys? What does the  "%" symbol mean, and 
what's it used for? 

So what homework do I need to do to understand this stuff?

Also, do I take it that the Berkely System comes with Python 2.2, and 
therefore I don't need to download anything else? Or is bsddb merely an 
interface for the Berkely System?

-- 
cdewin at dingoblue.net.au


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Mar 22 14:40:26 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:40:26 GMT
Subject: yenc encoding?
Message-ID: <3c9b8743.23437968@news.t-online.de>

Does someone work on a yenc-encoder/decoder for python? Both "base64"
and "binascii" are there in the python standard library, after all.

Just wondering: Should an implementation for a new encoding follow the
base64-model (that is, have four funcs encode, encodes, decode,
decodes) or the binascii-modell (a2b_yenc,b2a_yenc) or something
totally different altogether? 




From dreed at capital.edu  Tue Mar 26 19:33:33 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:33:33 -0500
Subject: python on Sharp Zaurus
In-Reply-To: <7xadsuan0p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> (message from Paul Rubin on
	26 Mar 2002 16:10:30 -0800)
References: <mailman.1017184128.13724.python-list@python.org> <7xadsuan0p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <200203270033.g2R0XXN20342@localhost.localdomain>

> From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com>
> 
> Dave Reed <dreed at capital.edu> writes:
> 
> > Does anyone know if Python runs on the new Sharp Zaurus?
> > 
> > http://www.idg.net/go.cgi?id=656429
> 
> Yes, it does.


Ok, I found it - the link on the python.org web site is wrong.

It's now at:

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/zaurus/index.php

Dave



From fedor at mailandnews.com  Wed Mar 27 16:41:26 2002
From: fedor at mailandnews.com (Fedor Baart)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:41:26 +0100
Subject: Very small zlib/svg problem
Message-ID: <a7te9u$kah$1@news.hccnet.nl>

I am trying to convert a SVG file to a SVGZ file which is the
"gzip"compressed version of the SVG file.
(SVG is a XML based vector graphics format (see www.w3c.org))

I use the zlib library to compress the svg file.

The problem is that when I try to view the SVGZ file with adobe SVG viewer
3.0 or with the Batik SVG browser that it doesn't render and is not able to
read the SVGZ file as SVG.

I am assuming I am not using the zlib library correctly.

I use the following code:

import zlib
file('c:/test.svgz','w').write(zlib.compress(file('c:/test.svg').read()))
#read the svg file c:\test.svg, compress it using zlib and write it to
c:\test.svgz

Opening the test.svgz using a svg compatible browser is supposed to display
the SVG drawing. But it displays nothing. The Batik browser displays an
error: Character conversion error: "Unconvertible UTF-8 character beginning
with 0x9c" (line number may be too low).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Fedor Baart

For those who like svg: www2.sfk.nl/svg ---> a python svg module which I
created.




From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar 11 15:00:12 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:00:12 -0500
Subject: [ANN] PEP 279 version 1.7
Message-ID: <a6j2d0$71m$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

PEP 279 -- Enhanced Generators has been updated:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0279.html

Comments are invited on the revised PEP.

The changes were driven by comments from GvR,
from the authors of PEP 255, and from members of
the Py-Dev maillist.

There changes from version 1.6 to version 1.7 were the
addition of comments from Magnus Lie Hetland and the
repair a typo in the code.


The principal changes from version 1.5 to version 1.6 are:

1.  Rationale section focused on generator usage instead
of lazy evaluation.

2.  The proposal for four builtins has been reduced to one.
Xzip, xfilter, and xmap are retracted.  Expanded the discussion
of the remaining proposed builtin, indexed().

3.  All sections expanded to include comments received
from GvR and the PEP 255 authors (the experts on the
existing generator implementation).

4.  Proposal for generator exception passing moved up
one section.

5.  Proposal for generator parameter passing listed as
deferred -- everyone thinks this may be a viable idea
but it doesn't have a chance in the near-term.

6.  The restartability discussion has been deleted -- Guido
thought it was evil.



Raymond Hettinger





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Mar  1 18:31:18 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 18:31:18 -0500
Subject: Older Python bug entries on SourceForge
Message-ID: <u1yf327cp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

I was trying to look up an old bug entry on SourceForge (based on a
bug number from some CVS log comments) and can't seem to pull it up.
Does anyone know if SourceForge expires closed bugs after some time
duration or something?  Is there any archive available to view old
bugs?

Thanks.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From anthony at interlink.com.au  Fri Mar 29 09:11:49 2002
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:11:49 +1100
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?! 
In-Reply-To: Message from David Ascher <DavidA@ActiveState.com> 
   of "Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:40:01 -0800." <3CA39BC1.59873E78@activestate.com> 
Message-ID: <200203291411.g2TEBnn08738@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>

>>> David Ascher wrote
> Tim already spends a lot of time on installers that I for one would
> rather see him spend on things that the rest of us can't do =).

.. like making floating point work properly on every possible combination
of OS, CPU, compiler and libc/libm.

particularly-the-ones-he-doesn't-have-access-to-ly,
Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 14:05:45 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:05:45 +0000
Subject: Connecting to a Gnutella-network
References: <PCnk8.84$5Kn.171039232@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <slrna94hg9.4j5.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:33:19 GMT, Thomas Weholt <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I've looked at the Gnutella Protocol, v.0.4, and wondered about trying to
>create an implementation in python. I'm a newbie when it comes to this sort
>of thing, but have created several simple to complex server types of
>applications using SocketServer and its friends like BaseHTTPServer etc.
>
>Has anybody tried to do this before? Does anybody have pointers for newbies
>like me in such a project ( how to start, how to connect to nodes on a
>gnutella network etc. )

I personally haven't, but there are several open-source Gnutella 
clients, just waiting there for you to inspect the code.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From sheershion at mailexpire.com  Fri Mar  1 11:08:00 2002
From: sheershion at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:08:00 -0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns91C4AE233CF92rcamesz@amesz.demon.nl>

Robin Becker wrote:

> ....
>>
>>However, if you are on a 9x platform, and quoting the command just
>>as you want the command interpreter to see it on the command line
>>doesn't work, you might just want to revert to using the short
>>(non-space) version of the name.  So in your example you would
>>replace "program files" with "progra~1" (or whatever it may be in
>>the unlikely event it's different than that).
>>
>>--
>>-- David
> this is win2k. I have tried quoting with "", but I still seem to
> be getting
> 
> no such command C:\program  etc

On Win98 I've found I had to quote *and* escape the quote characters, 
and - sometimes - backslashes too. I'm not sure if this is also the 
case on Win2000, but it's worth a try. This would yield something like:

'\\"c:\\\\program files\\\\dimbo\\\\bongo.exe\\\\" \\"c:\\\\program 
files\\\\dumbo\\\\my file.dat\\"'


Horrible, I know. Somewhere in the gizzards of Python there's some 
double parsing of the commandline going on. This is doubly insidious on 
Win98 as it pipes its data through a little program called 
win9xpopen.exe, which chokes when argc isn't exactly 2.

Well, chokes isn't the right word: it pops up a dialog box, but when 
called from Python this dialog is invisible... Fun, ain't it? I'm not 
going to tell you how long it took me to find out this little quirk. I 
hope it's fixed in 2.2. And yes, I did report this behaviour a while 
back.


Robert Amesz


From aahzpy at panix.com  Sat Mar 23 10:19:40 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 10:19:40 -0500
Subject: Info needed on metaclasses / type-ing
References: <a7i109$ufh$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>
Message-ID: <a7i6ec$d8h$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <a7i109$ufh$1 at ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>,
Dimitris Garanatsios <rs96057 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>My question is about the "SingletonMetaClass" class.
>I have tried in the past to create my own types using Python and just could
>not find a way of doing that since built-in type objects' structure where
>not documented.
>
>The "SingletonMetaClass though", as far as i can understand, please help me
>with that, is doing exactly what i wanted: a new type definition. I browsed
>Python's manuals to find more about the attributes and functions that are
>used, but found nothing...

You need to upgrade to Python 2.2 (or 2.2.1, which will be available
within a month).  If this is the first you've heard of 2.2, you're in
for a *big* surprise.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From v at 4leads.com  Mon Mar 18 12:08:54 2002
From: v at 4leads.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?4leads?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:08:54 -0000
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?SORTCODE.COM?=
Message-ID: <E16n0bU-0000Ad-00@mail.python.org>

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From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar  9 13:41:01 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:41:01 GMT
Subject: Turn string into function call
References: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com> <E58i8.17062$N7.3653694@ruti.visi.com> <a6crpv$f6d$1@panix2.panix.com> <slrna8k8pv.1d5.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <a6dbbs$3c3$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8klql.1kr.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <a6dbbs$3c3$1 at panix2.panix.com>, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> In article <slrna8k8pv.1d5.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>,
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>>
>>I think it would also be good to mention the eval() method, and
>>the locals() method (and the problems with both).  I started to
>>write up a FAQ yesterday but didn't get very far...
> 
> You can add that to the new FAQ entry at
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.103.htp

Will do.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  HELLO KITTY gang
                                  at               terrorizes town, family
                               visi.com            STICKERED to death!


From mrboxer at kaosmic.net  Wed Mar  6 16:43:45 2002
From: mrboxer at kaosmic.net (mrBoxer)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:43:45 +0100
Subject: Beginner
Message-ID: <hi266a.fu9.ln@localhost.kaosmic.net>

Have you experience of the book "How to think like a computer
scientist - Learning with Python"?

I would like to learn python and begin with reading that
tutorial I found online at python site. I'm not a "strong old
programmer" but I've some experience with shell, perl, elisp
and C.

Thanks a lot.

-- 
       mrBoxer at Kaosmic Cow



From henrik.motakef at web.de  Sat Mar  2 12:17:22 2002
From: henrik.motakef at web.de (Henrik Motakef)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 18:17:22 +0100
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <868z9a6g9p.fsf@apo.hmotakef.int>

mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) writes:

> I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
> through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
> (highlighted in some way). 

I once found a project called OpenTheory (http://www.opentheory.org)
that used a system that might be interesting for you (although it's
written in Perl, IIRC). Basically, there is one "maintainer" of a
text, and "project members" can add comments to every paragraph until
the maintainer releases a new version of the document. Never used it
myself, though.

hth
Henrik


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 07:15:34 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 06:15:34 -0600
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <a6712u$lk9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
        <a6712u$lk9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <15495.23014.196835.967433@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Raymond> "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote ...

    >> There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to
    >> further enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if
    >> more of this energy was directed at the overall environment (library,
    >> support tools, installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in
    >> the long run.

    Raymond> I certainly agree that effort needs to be put into the library,
    Raymond> etc.

    Raymond> However, I would like to defend the PEP writers guild on a few
    Raymond> points:

    ...

    Raymond> 1.  Writing a PEP is a disciplined activity that involves
    Raymond>     completely thinking our design choices, rallying public
    Raymond>     opinion, collecting all points of view for and against, and
    Raymond>     documenting all of that information in a single, version
    Raymond>     controlled, standard format document in a public place for
    Raymond>     everyone to study, ridicule, or on extremely rare
    Raymond>     occassions, adopt.

    Raymond>     In other words, PEP writing is contributing to science and
    Raymond>     is not a wasted effort even if the idea never gets adopted.

No defense needed.  We need PEPs related to the environment also, however.
I think some (most? all?) the blood, sweat, and tears poured into recent
PEPs related to what amount to relatively minor language design issues could
have more profitably been devoted to PEPs related to environment issues.  If
the energy expended on just PEPs related to loop counters had been directed
at cataloging/module distribution ideas, we'd probably have a pretty
complete PEP with a fair amount of buy-in from the community by now, and
maybe one or more implemented trial systems by now.

Skip



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 13 23:01:41 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:01:41 -0600
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
In-Reply-To: <20020314024259.GA24728@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <20020314024259.GA24728@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <15504.8357.750775.979255@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    gh> results = []
    gh> for entry in b:
    gh>     if entry not in a:
    gh>         results.append(entry)

    gh> is terribly slow.

Here's one idea using dicts.  Depending on what your lists contain (sounds
like filenames?) you might have to adjust things a bit to make them
dict-worthy.

    adict = {}
    for fname in a: adict[fname] = 1
    results = []
    for fname in b:
        if fname not in adict:
            results.append(fname)

or, pre-2.2:

    adict = {}
    for fname in a: adict[fname] = 1
    results = []
    for fname in b:
        if no adict.has_key(fname):
            results.append(fname)

This at least gets your algorithm out of the O(n**2) realm.  Should run a
lot faster.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From laytonjb at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 29 15:55:34 2002
From: laytonjb at bellsouth.net (Jeff Layton)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:55:34 -0500
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
References: <3CA4C09B.D9D15464@bellsouth.net> <3CA4CA27.F00B91BA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4D4C6.4E38F192@bellsouth.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Jeff Layton wrote:
> >
> > a = []
> > a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
> > IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>
> Please always cut and paste the actual traceback into the message
> so we can see what the interpreter really says.  (In this case
> it's okay though.)

I thought this was something simple, so I didn't post any code
(it's really throw away code anyway). In the future I'll post all
of the code and the tracebacks.


>
>
> You can't assign to the first entry because the list is empty.
> You need to append to the list, to let it grow as needed,
> sort of like you tried here:
>
> >    I also tried it this way,
> >
> > a = []
> > a.append = Bob('localhost')
>
> That won't work, because append is a method so you have to pass
> the argument in brackets:
>
> a.append(Bob('localhost'))
>
> > and I get the error message:
> >
> > a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
> > IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>
> That's not the error message you would get from the a.append
> attempt you did.  That would have said this:
>
> >>> a.append = Bob('localhost')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'list' object attribute 'append' is read-only

You're correct. Somehow the paste didn't work. Sorry about
that.


>
>
> So always cut-and-paste errors into emails...
>
> -Peter




From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 11 05:46:13 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:46:13 GMT
Subject: Anonymous attribute/property possible?
References: <a6bdpt$lop$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <uzo1f2xbl.fsf@python.net>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> A class with an anonymous attribute/property would provide a place to put
> get/set/del-triggered code.
> 
> Use of an object with an anonymous property in an expression
> or statement would result in calling the get/set methods defined.
> 
> Thus you could write foo(bar) with the effect of foo(bar.__anonymous__)
> and bar() with the effect of bar.__anonymous__()
> 
> And bar = baz with the effect of bar.__anonymous__ = baz.
> 
> But since __anonymous__ could be a property, you could define
> methods at will (e.g., get_bar, and set_bar) and write
> bar = baz with the effect bar.set_bar(baz) and
> foo(bar) with the effect foo(bar.get_bar())
> 
> This might work nicely with an interpolated-string class.
> E.g.,
>   is = IS('The get_is anonymous property method will interpolate $variables')
>   print is # the reference would trigger interpolation with current values
>            # you could do this now, but you'd have to write "print is.some_property"
> 

Ouch.

> If you wanted to access the actual object that had an anonymous
> property, you'd have to give it a named method returning self for
> that purpose.
> 
> I think this could open up a whole world of scary delights ;-)
> (And ISTM without a backwards compatibility problem).

Just in case the fact that this is a horrible idea doesn't put you off
<wink>, how would you implement this without a fairly huge performance
hit?  LOAD_FAST is currently, well, fast.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
  Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work.    -- C Hacking
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From jason at jorendorff.com  Thu Mar  7 22:08:32 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:08:32 -0600
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
In-Reply-To: <Ntwh8.2920$J3.429@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLKEMODHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

logistix writes:
> Okay, now I'm confused.
>
> I was perfectly happy with Teddy Reedy's explaination that def is an
> expression and not a declaration.
>
> But if I'm following you, the embedded attribute function isn't being
> recompiled to bytecode each time function() is called.  If the code object
> is only getting created once, then why are the defaults getting
> recalculated?

(Grin.)  Poke around with the various attributes of a function and
you'll figure things out in no time.

The code object is what's fixed; the bytecode and anything else that
can be compiled at, er, compile-time.  The rest of the function
object is built at runtime when the "def" statement is executed.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 12 13:33:17 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:33:17 -0800
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8E49ED.1C524CC1@ccvcorp.com>


Marco Herrn wrote:

> [snip]
> > ...  def sayNo(self):
> > ...   caller = sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self']
> this is the only line, that looks a bit ugly. It actually does the same
> as when giving caller as parameter. So what can be a reason to implement
> it this way? It looks much less readable to me. And I have to say I not
> even understand it fully....

Actually, it does *not* do the same as giving the caller as a parameter, in
general.  What this does, is that it gets the intepreter's stack frame in which
the current object was created.  In this case, that happens to be the
Egg.__init__() frame.  It then searches this stack frame for a local name
'self';  if that name doesn't exist, this will throw an exception.  This means
that Spam can *only* be created from inside of another method which uses the self
convention;  you cannot create a Spam object globally or inside of a top level
function.  And, indeed, in the rare instances where a method uses some name other
than self to represent its bound instance, this will fail as well.  A metaphor
would be that, instead of simply being told who your parents are, you're
searching through a phone book for a name that you *think* belongs to them -- but
you might have the name wrong, they might have an unlisted number, or they might
not even *be* in that phone book.  (Note also that even if it *does* work, it's
inappropriate to call the object found the "owner" or "caller" of the current
instance; it would be the *creator*, which is not necessarily the same thing at
all, especially when you consider object factories and such.)

In short, this is black magic.  It might work, most of the time... but if you
turn your back on it, it's liable to blow up on you.  Use only with caution, and
only when you're *sure* that you know what you're asking for.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 18:37:09 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:37:09 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?) 
Message-ID: <OF852129CC.F969D7FE-ON88256B6F.007D26B2@i2.com>

[Carel Fellinger]
> But even after that nice math lesson I still don't *understand* it,
> you iterate over a sequence and I have a hard time seeing an integer
> as a sequence.  Same for a length. And I believe many would have the
> same problem.

You're right; apparently they do.  Here's how I think of it.  Iterators are
really useful.  When asked to do so they produce items one after another
according to some meaningful plan.  You can associate an iterator with
anything that you think is practical and useful.  So, is there any reason
to associate an iterator with an integer?  PEP 276 suggests that because
there are times when you have the length of an indexed-collection and you
want to iterate over the indices of that collection it would be convenient
to associate an iterator with that "length" number.  It just makes it easy
and uncluttered to do
    for rowindex in table.rowcount:
        process(rowindex)

That's it.  You don't have to think of integer n as a sequence.  You just
need to remember that n can produce the iteration 0,1,2,...,n-1.

Perhaps it might help to change one's perspective of "for x in y" from
  "for each object that is a member of y, an ordered aggregation of other
things"
to
  "for each object that is produced by the iterator associated with y"

Works for me, but, clearly not everyone. :-)


>Besides, I don't see the huge advantage of this compared to
>`range(integer)' or `indici(sequenceORmapping)'.

If you are happy with range and xrange, then PEP 276 won't appeal to you.


> What about a function that accepts as argument such a collection
> and then generates the indici?  Much easier to explain, to understand,
> to adopt. But admitted, it takes a little extra typing.
>
> Seriously I would like you to add something in your PEP that addresses
> this simple alternative and explain why you favour yours.  True,
> `i in range(len(sequence))' doesn't look very pleasing, but
> `i in indici(sequence)' does. And as an added bonus it's
> very similar to `(i, item) in indexed(sequence)'.

This has been suggested and is fine for one-dimensional,
indexed-collections that are written in Python and obey the standard
protocol for sequences -- specifically that they implement __len__.  But
how is such a function going to work for a two-dimensional Java table
(accessed via Jython)?  PEP 276 is more general.  And doesn't preclude such
a function being added, in any case.


> But I do think that dismissing our point as a matter of
> preference misses our point.

The PEP says this:

    - Some feel that iterating over the sequence "0, 1, 2, ..., n-1"
      for an integer n is not intuitive.  "for i in 5:" is considered
      (by some) to be "non-obvious", for example.

How does that miss your point?  What should it say?


> looking forward to your views on meta programming though

Thanks.


Jim




From cheewahwah at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 10:03:00 2002
From: cheewahwah at yahoo.com (See Toh Chee Wah)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 07:03:00 -0800
Subject: Need help with plotting
References: <3c9cd61e.8124286@news> <a7im4a$lk6vk$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <34b75f98.0203240703.1ee03b95@posting.google.com>

RPy is cool...

pychart is another good one...

http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Yasushi_Saito/pychart/


regards
cheewah

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message news:<a7im4a$lk6vk$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>...
> brobbins333 at shaw.ca
> > I'm new to Python and doing pretty well with it so far. 
> > One thing that has me stumped is finding an "easy" way, 
> > or any way, for that matter, to plot simple graphs. 
> 
> 
> I was really impressed by RPy
> 
> http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy
> 
> Check out Tim Churches' example at
> 
> http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/rpy_demo.html


From susan at mars.provis.com  Fri Mar 29 15:09:17 2002
From: susan at mars.provis.com (Susan Williams)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:09:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
Message-ID: <200203292009.g2TK9H304897@mars.provis.com>


>Hello,
>
>   I'm still learning Python and I'm playing around with some
>code that creates a class. I've mastered that stage already.
>However, what I want to do is create multiple instances of
>the class and put them into a list.
>   If the class is called Bob, then I want to do something like,
>
>
>a = []
>a[0] = Bob('input1')
>
>and so on. Everytime I try something like this I get the following
>error message:
>
>a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
>IndexError: list assignment index out of range

Yeah, that is definitely a "no go".  You can't refer to a[0]
because it doesn't exist--a is empty.

>   I also tried it this way,
>
>a = []
>a.append = Bob('localhost')
>
>and I get the error message:
>
>a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
>IndexError: list assignment index out of range

This is closer.  a itself is an object, and the way you deal
with it, at least for some functions, is thru its methods.
append is a method of the list object, so what you really want
is:

a.append(Bob('localhost'))

>
>TIA,
>
>Jeff

susan




From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar 12 07:39:22 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:39:22 -0500
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <roy-59D1B0.07392212032002@news1.panix.com>

Tim Hammerquist <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote:
> According to Smalltalk enthusiasts, definitely not.

AFAICT, if you ask a smalltalker, he'll tell you python is not OO because 
it's not more like smalltalk.  On the other hand, if you ask a C++ hacker, 
he'll tell you python is not OO because it's not more like C++.  Similarly 
for Java, etc.  Everybody seems to have their own definition, usually based 
on whatever they learned first.

I've got one guy I work with you insists python isn't OO for exactly one 
reason: because it doesn't implement private variables.


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 10:09:10 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:09:10 GMT
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <3CA1BB93.FC00D40D@pop.ntlworld.com> <a7skr8$au5@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <qglo8.278901$uv5.24407482@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Phlip" <phlip_cpp at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a7skr8$au5 at dispatch.concentric.net...
...
> And we wrap all data members in get/set pairs, so the above would
have been:
>
>         x.setTiles([])

'we'?  The wisdom/folly of using get/set pairs is a matter of
continuing dispute.  Some of us find the extra work and inefficiency
distastful.

Terry J. Reedy





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 10:50:48 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:50:48 +0000
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a666k1$2km$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
> There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to further
> enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if more of this
> energy was directed at the overall environment (library, support tools,
> installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.

[snip]

Let me add to your list distutils. They are nice but need a fair amount of 
work. Projects such as PyXML and SciPy have ended up writing a lot of 
wraparound utility code basically to provide functionality which it would be 
nice to have in the core system (useful to all). So one more for the list of 
'useful things that benefit the community even though they don't sound cool' 
:)

Cheers,

f.


From skurland at juggler.net  Tue Mar 12 17:59:13 2002
From: skurland at juggler.net (Scott Kurland)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:13 -0600
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
Message-ID: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com>

Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?

#Searching for perfect numbers

howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
for number in range (1,howhigh):
 factorsum = 0
 halfnumber=number/2
 for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
  if number/checking == int (number/checking):
   factorsum = factorsum + checking
 if number == factorsum:
  print number



Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.

--
"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
-- Seneca





From mrchameleon at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 03:45:05 2002
From: mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 00:45:05 -0800
Subject: PIL Headaches: Advice Needed
References: <4378fa6f.0203161652.7f28e23b@posting.google.com> <a711h2$4db$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7652139e.0203170045.3c143995@posting.google.com>

"Take a PIL, mate". Everyone else refrained (good on you all), but I
couldn't help myself :-)


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Mon Mar 11 05:18:42 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:18:42 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8p159.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> graced us by uttering:
[ snip ]
> It sure smells like a hoax. I mean, really:
> 
[ snip ]
> 
> "Open and unrestricted"? It sure seems ludicrous to see these
> words in the same sentence with "Microsoft".

Didn't you know? Microsoft invented Open Source!  ;)

Tim Hammerquist
-- 
Watch my captor grow old and die. No satisfaction. Still here.
    -- Morpheus, The Sandman


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 14:55:35 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:55:35 -0600
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
Message-ID: <15495.50615.234998.36271@beluga.mojam.com>

As the Python user base grows, the number of bug reports and submitted
patches that need to be handled grows as well.  The size of the developer
pool (people with checkin capability to the project) hasn't grown enough to
meet the added demand, so we're looking for new developers to help.  There
are roughly 150 open patch submissions and about 250 open bug reports that
need attention.  While the work might not be glamorous, it is vital to keep
the code base improving to meet new requirements.

Python 2.3 is likely to be much more of a stability release than the
previous versions in the 2.x series, which have each added significant new
functionality to the language itself.  For quality to improve, we need a
major push to get existing bug reports and patches addressed.  You can help
in a number of different areas, so don't worry too much if you're not up on
the implementation of nested scopes and their relation to new-style classes.
Here are some things you might easily be able to help with:

    * More than 50 of the currently open bugs are in the documentation
      category.  I suspect many of them may need fairly small additions to
      existing documents.

    * If you have access to a minority platform, you might well be able to
      help check that submitted bug fixes or patches work on your platform.
      Since most Windows users don't have MSVC++, Windows/MSVC++ may well
      count as a minority platform for the purposes of this work.

    * Most bug reports and patches are currently not assigned to anyone
      (probably two-thirds of the bug reports and half the patches).
      Performing some initial triage on them (deciding if they are
      duplicates, providing initial feedback, or developing initial fixes)
      would be a huge help.

    * Many bug fixes and patches simply need some feedback so the
      responsible people can move through their currently assigned items
      more easily.

For much of this stuff you don't need checkin privileges to the CVS
repository.  For example, you could write a bit of documentation to address
a doc bug, then attach a patch file to the current bug report.  All you need
for that is a SourceForge user id.  You could also apply proposed bugfixes
to your own CVS tree, see how they work, tweak them if necessary, and attach
a comment to the bug report.

If you're unfamiliar with the mechanisms currently in place to support
Python development, I strongly urge you to read Andrew Kuchling's "Becoming
a Python Developer":

    http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/python-dev.html

I think it has just about everything you'll need to get started.

Whether or not you want to be able to check files into the CVS repository,
if you want to contribute, you should probably subscribe to the python-dev
mailing list.  You can subscribe here:

    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

If you'd like checkin privileges, send me (skip at pobox.com) an email with
"Python developer" in the subject.  Don't simply reply to this message.
Your note may well get lost (I get tons of email) among followups that are
just feedback about this message.  Let me know where your Python interests
and experience are, and maybe point to some stuff you've done.  I'll do a
little filtering (probably not a lot), then pass it along to another group
of people who will decide about granting CVS checkin privileges.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)

-----------
(*)  Fame within a small group of like-minded geeks.
(**) Your intangible wealth (e.g. "goodwill") will grow.  Your wallet will
     almost certainly not get thicker.



From daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 18:40:27 2002
From: daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com (David Brady)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:40:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SECURITY ALERT!!!                                                            . gvc
In-Reply-To: <AFE3FBA300B6F04282BE07949DB2E12303F3C7B1@TORINO.corp.es.com>
Message-ID: <20020322234027.13548.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cliff Wells
> > At the same time computers have got much more
> power fuller, and smaller
> 
> But apparently users are still as illiterate as
> ever.

You give them too much credit, thinking they have
remain at a stable level of illiteracy when, in fact,
they actually have got much more clue lesser.

-dB

=====
David Brady
daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com
I'm feeling very surreal today... or *AM* I?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 17:47:02 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 23:47:02 +0100
Subject: Symbolic imports and manipulation of the namespace?
References: <mailman.1017180521.5865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3vgbjymjd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

VanL <vlindberg at verio.net> writes:

> I was recently solving a problem which required that the config file
> (just a python file) lie outside of the pythonpath.  Is it possible to
> do symbolic importation of a module?

execfile will help.

Regards,
Martin


From cdonicz at cri-inc.com  Mon Mar 18 12:11:27 2002
From: cdonicz at cri-inc.com (Corey Donicz)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 09:11:27 -0800
Subject: Python Embedding / Import Woes
Message-ID: <e64b86de.0203180911.1d718a7c@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to resolve how to properly handle python module imports
from within an embedded python interpretor.

I've been able to reduce the problem to a simple case scenario:
After Py_Initialized() is called, as a test case, I run:
PyRun_SimpleString("from Numeric import *");

What I get is the following traceback:
File "<string>", line 1, in ?
File "C:\Program Files\Python21\Numeric\Numeric.py", line 133, in ?
  import multiarray
ImportError: No module named multiarray

I've checked that the python path points to the proper dirs, and I've
also cross checked the behavior in from a python interactive shell
which does _not_ result in the import error.  I keep getting bizarre
failures to find modules when my embedded code calls upon an external
module which has an "from foo import *" type import.  I feel I should
also mention that the embedded application is not relying on
PyRun_SimpleString at all, that's just in there for testing.

I'm guessing that since my sys.path is correct, that I'm not managing
namespaces correctly.

Any insights into this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

-Corey


From aahzpy at panix.com  Fri Mar 22 14:50:31 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 14:50:31 -0500
Subject: Namespace Qualification Question
References: <3C9B7C2A.20708@cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__>
Message-ID: <a7g1u7$3eh$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3C9B7C2A.20708 at cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__>,
Craig McLean  <mcleanc at cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__> wrote:
>
>Is there a module assosciated with the file you started the interpreter 
>with, and if there is what is it's name?  For instance
>
> > python qux.py
>
>I would have thought that there would be a qux module, and that it's 
>name would be stored in the __name__ builtin.

Nope.  As you'll see if you look in many modules, __name__ ==
'__main__', so that makes it easy to test whether your script is being
run directly or imported as a module.  Don't know off-hand what the
module is.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 19:36:19 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:36:19 -0500
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
References: <mailman.1016754947.17945.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A7C83.F61ECDD1@engcorp.com>

Geoffrey Talvola wrote:
> 
> I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by themselves if there
> is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?  Is it possible to
> control this behavior?  Just a link to some documentation of this behavior
> would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I don't think the same thing happens on Linux, or maybe it does but the
> timeout is longer than 4 minutes there.
> 
> I've attached a set of 2 test scripts that provoke the behavior.  Start up
> server.py first, then client.py, then wait 4 minutes.

Haven't run your tests, but isn't this what SO_KEEPALIVE is used for?


Try using:

import socket
s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_KEEPALIVE, 1)

and this will turn on the keep-alive feature (I think... pulled
that last line from pygale.py since I don't know where it
is well documented).

-Peter


From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Tue Mar  5 04:04:40 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 01:04:40 -0800
Subject: PyTypeObject* XXX(PyObject*)
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203050104.2af311c8@posting.google.com>

I want to use Python from C++.

I get some Python Object using 

PyObject* po = PyRun_String(...);

Depending on the type of the result po,
I want to do different actions with po,
say

typedef (void)(*ActionType)(PyObject*);

and I have an 

std::map<PyTypeObject*,ActionType> actionMap;

which I want to use in the following way:

PyTypeObject* t = XXX(po);
ActionType action = actionMap[t];
if(action!=0)
{
  (*action)();
}

What should be XXX, i.e., what is the name of the function
to get the TypeObject of a Python Object?
If there is no such function XXX, what should be the Key Type of my std::map?

Helmut


From mdl770 at libero.it  Wed Mar 13 09:52:41 2002
From: mdl770 at libero.it (Marco De Luca)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:52:41 +0100
Subject: calling methods of other objects
Message-ID: <MPG.16f9861f6d6ae511989682@powernews.libero.it>

Hi, I am quite new to Python and I have the following problem:

I have a combobox and a grid inside a panel inside a frame. I added a 
method to a wxGrid derived class and I need to call that method from a 
combobox event. How can I refer to the grid method in the function 
handling the combobox event?

Tahnks in advance, Marco.-


From thomas at weholt.org  Sun Mar 10 17:35:58 2002
From: thomas at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:35:58 GMT
Subject: Regular expressions newbie: something for templates
Message-ID: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

Hi,

I'm not getting the hang of regular expressions. All I want to do is this.

Take string #1 :

"This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"

and turn it into

"This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s"

Any clues?

( And yes, yet another template system in the works ;-) )

Thomas






From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Mar  7 14:50:39 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:50:39 -0800
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
In-Reply-To: <20020307101853.GA1326@lurkabove.darkstar>
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <20020307101853.GA1326@lurkabove.darkstar>
Message-ID: <20020307195039.GE29379@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Marco Herrn (herrn at gmx.net):
> Is there a reason why this is just a convention? It seems (because
> it is such a _strong_ convention) that this should be a real feature
> of the language. I mean that there could be a reserved word "self"
> which is there all the time, so that one doesn't hast to do this
> himself.

Others have posted some very good reasons why this isn't so, but
consider the advantages that explicitly passing "self" as a first
argument has:

>>> def myFunction(self, spam, eggs):
...     print "Self:", self
...     print "spam:", spam
...     print "eggs:", eggs
... 
>>> class MyClass:
...     myMethod = myFunction
... 
>>> my_instance = MyClass()
>>> my_instance.myMethod('Yellow', 'Green')
Self: <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x814f3a4>
spam: Yellow
eggs: Green

Is that not cool? You know it is.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts                <geoff at gerrietts net> 
"I have read your book and much like it." --Moses Hadas



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 25 08:43:51 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 14:43:51 +0100
Subject: unicode and locale of machine ?
References: <3C9ED480.8000403@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <m3ofhclq3s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> writes:

> Is it possible to read the current keyboard layout or
> language settings in windows/unix and use that
> automatically to convert text from unicode to printable
> in another machine ?

Some machines might not provide you with that information, so you
might have a hard time figuring out what encoding to use. Here are
some strategies:

- On Unix, try locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET). If that is
  available, it should be a string identifying the user's encoding.
  Pitfalls:
  - you might need to call setlocale before nl_langinfo returns
    something useful; make sure to set atleast the LC_CTYPE category.
  - the operating system may not support nl_langinfo, or CODESET.
  - the user may not have configured her locale properly
  - the encoding returned by the operating system may not be known
    to Python

- On Windows, when passing strings to GUI code, you can use the "mbcs"
  encoding, which is Python's name for the CP_ACP codepage, which is
  Microsoft's abbreviation for "ANSI code page", which is Microsoft's
  name for the user's locale's encoding.
  Pitfalls:
  - Windows has *two* locale's encodings: the ANSI code page, and the
    OEM code page. The cmd.exe/command.com window, by default, uses
    the OEM code page, for which Python has no easy wrapper.
  - In any specific console window, the console code page may have
    been changed.

If you find the encoding "enc" that the user users, you can print the
Unicode strings uni just by doing

  print uni.encode("enc")

HTH,
Martin


From gdiribarne at udcast.com  Mon Mar 25 08:16:49 2002
From: gdiribarne at udcast.com (Gilles Diribarne)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:16:49 +0100
Subject: Indentation problem
Message-ID: <3C9F2341.1000802@udcast.com>

Hi,

I like Python language and use it every day. But...
I read some articles from October, 1998 where there was a fight with 
space and tabs and indent problems.
Today, we can found code with spaces and tabs in the code.

I've some problem with identing code. I'm allright with the example.
But, I think it's important to have an "end" building block like "!:"

What do you think about that?

Why I would like to put this in the code?
1/ Because it's almost impossible to paste python code with ident = n 
spaces to another code with indent = m spaces
This kind of examples occurs more and more and you can indent the code 
by hand when it's 10 lines of codes, but not 1000 code lines.
It prevents the re-use of code pieces.

2/ Programmers wants independence: some wants to manage building blocks 
with spaces, other with tabs, some wants length = 4 with tabs.
I would like to use my own programming style! But, my code risks to be 
not supported by others.

2/ Emacs and a great number of editors cannot indent region, since the 
building blocks are only in programmer's mind.

3/ A large number of programming language use this. C, PERL, Ruby, ...
Why not Python?

4/ Solve the problem of space and tabs length. But, we should keep the 
indenting mode which produces beautifull syntax.
pythona.py:
  def func():
    a = 1
    if a == 1:
      a ==2
      print "beatifull! Isn't it?"

5/ This kind of separator should be optional ???
So, don't change the current library. It will be very easy to adapt old 
code with this kind of separator.
A parser could be provided to re-adapt the old code !!!

EXAMPLE:

pythona.py:
  def func():
    a = 1
    if a == 1:
      a ==2



pythonb.py
    def func2():
        a = 2
        if a == 2:
             print "Yeah!"


You cannot merge correctly or tell me how to do this ?
This is simply because the language doesn't have a "end" instruction 
block. It has ":" as beginning instruation block.
I would like to propose an end instruction block like "!:" or "end"

pythona.py:
  def func():
    a = 1
    if a == 1:
      a ==2
    !:
  !:

pythonb.py
    def func2():
        a = 2
        if a == 2:
             print "Yeah!"
        !:
     !:


Now, with your favorite emacs, you can indent two portions of code very 
easily.

  def func():
    a = 1
    if a == 1:
      a ==2
    !:
  !:

  def func2():
    a = 2
    if a == 2:
      print "Yeah!"
    !:
  !:


Gilles,
Python programmer




From l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com  Fri Mar  8 23:28:24 2002
From: l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:28:24 GMT
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C895594.60601@sneakemail.com>

Roy Smith wrote

> Not touching the core language is a Good Thing.    It's really tough to 
> convince people that python is a viable tool when it's a moving target.  
> 
> It's been somewhat of an uphill battle to get my development group to 
> accept the fact that I write tools for the whole group's use in python.  
> Having the core language change from version to version just makes it 
> worse, as we discover imcompatabilities between whatever version I'm using 
> to develop on and whateve they're running on their boxes.  Telling people, 
> "Oh, you need to upgrade to version X" gets old pretty fast.  As the saying 
> goes, "if you're explaining, you've already lost."
> 


   Just out of curiosity, what does the rest of your group develop in 
then?  FORTRAN?  COBOL? ("and none of this ANSI85 crap, either...it gets 
old trying to hit a moving target!")

   Joshua





From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sat Mar  9 20:29:18 2002
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:29:18 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news> <3C8AA5E4.982FC689@mega-nerd.com> <3c8aae24.156616153@news>
Message-ID: <3C8AB6ED.D7869109@mega-nerd.com>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
> 
> I knew your name was familiar! I'm reading your book right now.
> It's excellent.

Thanks :-).

> VB for one, returns a proper rounded result on these
> recalcitrant numbers. 

VB probably stores rounded floating point numbers as strings instead
of the normal binary representation. VB like most scripting style 
languages (ie non-stringly typed languages) often hides the 
representation of the its variables.

> I'd be willing to bet that C can do it as well,
> but you should know better than I.

Python as it is written in C, gets its behaviour directly from C. What 
you are seeing is actually the behaviour of C.

> The problem is that I am trying to use the return value of round() as
> the return value of another function, so using Print to tidy it uup
> really doesn't do me any good. Any suggestions?

My suggestion is that instead of rounding the number you convert it
to a string of the required precision:

	erikd at coltrane > python
	Python 2.1.2 (#1, Jan 18 2002, 18:05:45) 
	[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
	Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
	>>> x = 56.78923
	>>> x_as_string = "%.2f" % x
	>>> print x_as_string
	56.79

Just what you want. Remember however that if you want to operate on the
number using standard arithmetic you need to work on x rather than 
x_as_string.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"The whole principle is wrong; it's like demanding that grown men live on 
skim milk because the baby can't eat steak."
- author Robert A. Heinlein on censorship.


From justin at iago.org  Fri Mar  8 19:20:15 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:20:15 -0500
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
In-Reply-To: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> (morton@dennisinter.com's
 message of "8 Mar 2002 15:38:51 -0800")
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7ofhy383k.fsf@ra.iago.org>

morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton) writes:

>>>> 'c' in 'the quick brown fox'
> 1
>>>> 'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
>
> is this by design?
>
> is there any reason why '<string> in <string>' shouldnt work?

The "in" operator tests to see if the first operand is an element of
the sequence which is the second element.  A string is a sequence of
characters (which are 1-element strings).  Thus, the only thing which
can be an element of a string is a single character.

-Justin

 




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  8 22:30:51 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 03:30:51 GMT
Subject: broken pipes, import errors (LONG, INVOLVED)
References: <mailman.1015633218.4713.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6bvlb$n17$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:13:54 -0800, Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:

>
>At work, I'm seeing an "interesting" problem in my production
>environment, or maybe two problems. It's one of those problems that
[...]
>
>  "This" is extremely curious. In one of our Zope products, we have a
>  sequence of logic that looks something like this:
>
>  > statement = "import module.submodule.SubSubModule"
>  > object_nm = "module.submodule.SubSubModule.Object"
>  >
>  > exec statement
>  > object = eval(object_nm)
>
>  Obviously, the names have been changed to protect the innocent and reduce
>  the complications.
>
>  When Zope starts back up, the app will execute this block of statements
>  one or more times for several different values of "statement" and
>  "object_nm".

I don't have a clue about your situation, but it strikes me that exec and eval both
use name spaces (local and global dictionaries) that you could specify, but don't.

I'm wondering if the default (current scope) is ok in your context.

If you are repeatedly reusing the same current scope (e.g., doing those exec and eval
lines inside a loop) for unrelated things, maybe there are name collisions?

Maybe logging the output of dir() before and after those lines would reveal something?
Or try specifying local and global dicts and .clear() them after use (maybe the default
environment is keeping something alive that should get garbage-collected and have its
destructor executed? Or maybe one finally does fire off after a same-name rebinding
of a reference, and the old destructor is doing inappropriate cleanup for the new environment?
How does memory usage look?)

If you specify dictionaries for exec and eval, be wary of just passing anonymous {}.
Give them separate names and assign them separately, unless you want to
use the same one. I.e., dloc={}; dglob={} and they won't clear by themselves, so dloc.clear();
dglob.clear() when you want them to be fresh for the next loop (if that's what you have).
If you pass {} to exec and eval, you won't be able to clear it,  and you won't have changed
much.

These are just ideas trying to jog your thoughts, hopefully helpfully ;-)
No specific recommendations -- you'll have to figure what's appropriate for your situation.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Thu Mar 14 09:49:25 2002
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 06:49:25 -0800
Subject: PyProlog 0.2.0 - compiling under Windows
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0203140649.635d4b49@posting.google.com>

I'M trying to use the Prolog wrapper from Nathan Denny,
pyprolog0.2.0.tar http://agave.ahsc.arizona.edu/~schcats/projects/

********* Excerp from the readme file...
...
The prolog.py file provides a Python interface to SWI-Prolog.
SWI-Prolog is a free prolog,
...
Once you have installed SWI-Prolog, you will also need 
libpython2.0a...which should be in your Python-2.0 build directory.
...
*********

The example tells how its compiled for Unix/Linux - I'm trying to
adapt this to Windows using VC++6.0

Linking breaks with:
*********
--------------------Configuration: pyswipl - Win32
Debug--------------------
Linking...
LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "python21_d.lib"
Error executing link.exe.

pyswipl.dll - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s)
*********

Naturally, I don't have that file on my machine, nor the
"libpython2.0a" refered to in the readme.

I'm using Python 2.1 from ActiveState, under Windows 2000 Pro

Any hints, recipy or other comments appreciated,

Jean-Marc


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  4 11:15:52 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:15:52 GMT
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uwuws2tm9.fsf@python.net>

Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> writes:

> Makes pretty much sense to me.
> Stackless can provide light-weight threads to all platforms.
> There is no need to use OS threads unless you need it
> for I/O.

The idea I think Frederic was getting at was to automatically use OS
threads for IO.  I don't know if that would be possible, but it might
be cool.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The Oxford Bottled Beer Database heartily disapproves of the 
  excessive consumption of alcohol.  No, really.
                        -- http://www.bottledbeer.co.uk/beergames.html
                           (now sadly gone to the big 404 in the sky)


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar  7 23:08:38 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 04:08:38 GMT
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
References: <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list@python.org> <7x3czc87qq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3C882CBC.4553D21C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8geac.igo.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Peter Hansen wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> 
>> stefan antoni <sasoft at gmx.de> writes:
>> > sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know the
>> > name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
>> > problem is also in german.
>> 
>> Usually we call it the "Monty Hall problem".  Monty Hall was the host
>> of a TV game show where he actually played that game (put a prize behind
>> one of three doors, etc).
> 
> See also http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MontyHallProblem for full discussion.

Most of the explanations are too complicated IMHO. This is how I
finally understood the problem:

Your original choice has a chance of 1/3 to win the prize. This
doesn't change no matter what the moderator will do. Consequenetly,
the chance that the prize is hidden behind one of the two remaining
doors is 2/3.

So, now, the moderator opens one of the goat doors, but not yours.
Your original choice still has a chance of 1/3 to be correct, but the
two thirds for the other two doors now only apply to one door. That's
why switching doors is smart.

A little ASCII art :)

After your original choice:

 +------+  +------+ +------+
 |  ?   |  |  ?   | |  ?   |
 +------+  +------+ +------+
                   your choice

 \-------+--------/ chance to win:
         |             1/3
 chance to win: 2/3

         

 +------+  +------+ +------+
 | goat |  |  ?   | |  ?   |
 +------+  +------+ +------+
         chance to  chance to
         win: 2/3   win: 1/3

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 08:24:28 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:24:28 -0500
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <ur8m478ds.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa7eem.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HWZo8.16707$Ou.13476@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"phil hunt" <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnaa7eem.eau.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk...
> On 28 Mar 2002 15:19:27 -0500, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
> >philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:
> >
> >> IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works
> >> correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
> >>
> >> IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
> >
> >I'm not so sure.  Doing it that way presumes that in fact you aren't
> >making an error while trying to access an index (word) that doesn't
> >exist.
>
> Correct. IMO "try to do something sensible" should be the default.
>
So you'd like Python to operate in DWIM (do what I mean) mode? Perhaps you'd
also like the development of psychic wireless networking, which knows what
you are going to say so you never need to say it, and all programs simply
become a sinlge statement:

    solve this problem

> If the programmer *wants* to do it the other way round, that is easy
> enough to code:
>
>    if word not in fred:
>       raise SomeException
>    fred[word] ++
>
> But 9 times out of 10, you'll want to use a default of 0.
>
9 times out of 10 a language system that makes guesses about what I want
will be wrong. If I want a system that "makes guesses" then Perl is
available.

> >Python requires marginally more effort to cover this case (e.g., you
> >have to explicitly use a method like .get to include a default value
> >if you know the key might not yet be present), but that also means
> >that the code explicitly highlights that the scenario is anticipated
> >and being handled.
>
> Having to explicitly state things like this is a sign of low
> levelnmess in a lang. Next you'll be arguing that explicit storage
> management is a good thing.... :-)
>
Explicit storage management is a good thing if you happen to need close
control over storage. But having to be explicit about the semantic of your
problem (rather than the details of using a computer to solve a problem by
manipulating information models) is a sign a maturity, not of
"low-levelness". I guess

    solve this problem

would be high-level in your book? In mine it simply moves the onus of
providing semantic detail on to the description of what "this problem" is.
The problems that take most fixing are the ones where the language system
acts on some unstated assumption which contradicts the assumptions of the
programmer.

> >Sure, in a simple example like an increment operation it seems a bit
> >much, but as a general case, I think it's the smarter and more
> >maintainable default behavior.
>
> I have never had maintainability problems with the other way round.
>
You're lucky.

regards
 Steve






From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 15:53:06 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:53:06 -0600
Subject: PEP 263 comments
In-Reply-To: <m3pu2orps5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org>
        <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
        <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
        <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
        <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
        <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
        <m3pu2orps5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <15487.59954.782142.191843@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Martin> A byte string should certainly be able to store arbitrary
    Martin> bytes. Under Stephen's proposal, it would indeed not be possible
    Martin> anymore to put arbitrary binary data into source code.

It's clear from discussions on python-dev that, like Barry Warsaw, I wear
American sunglasses when exposed to the Unicode sun.

Just to make sure I understand correctly, under Stephen's propsal would

    s = "\xff"

be correct?  I assume

    s = "?"

(a literal 0377 character) would be an error, yes?  That is, when you saw
"arbitrary binary data" you are referring to non-printable octets in the
source file, right?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From emile at fenx.com  Wed Mar 20 08:54:54 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 05:54:54 -0800
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
References: <mailman.1016624252.6101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7a4mp$j99o7$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Bruce Dykes
<snip>
> class call_record:
>     def __init__(self, record=''):
>         self.record_id=record[0:5]
>         self.date=record[6:11]
>
> etc...
>
> Now what I expect to be able to do is say:
>
> log = readlines(today.log)
>
> and then summon discrete bits of info like so:
>
> print call_record.record_id(log[1])
>

If all you want is the record_id you could do:

print call_record(log[1]).record_id

But if you want to get to the other attributes, you'll probably want to
save a reference to the object:

this_rec = call_record(log[1])

and then access the attributes:

this_rec.record_id
this_rec.date
etc.

HTH,



--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 14 13:46:56 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 13:46:56 -0500
Subject: Conditional Import
References: <mailman.1016126245.18593.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6qr70$cg8$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016126245.18593.python-list at python.org>,
Gustavo Cordova  <gcordova at hebmex.com> wrote:
>
>	from exceptions import ImportError
>	try:
>		from codeop import CommandCompiler
>	except ImportError:
>		from MockCommandCompiler import CommandCompiler

Exceptions are automatically imported; no need for the first line.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Wed Mar  6 14:59:36 2002
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:59:36 -0800
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk> <mailman.1015085345.6196.python-list@python.org> <Xns91C68AFA9D232andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.104> <mailman.1015217468.19186.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C867528.F55D9A90@noaa.gov>

Wayne Pierce wrote:
>I've tried wxDesigner, but
> couldn't figure out that spacer stuff for the life of me.

I think you mean "Sizer", and you might want to give it another shot.
They take a little effort to wrap your brain around, but once you get
it, wxSizers are an excelent way to develop GUIs, particularly
cross-platform ones, where the widgets are different shapes and sizes on
different platforms. Or multi-language ones, where the text is different
in different languages.

wxDesigner makes using wxSizers a whole lot easier that writing th code
by hand, anyway!

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From khirmint at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 13:28:10 2002
From: khirmint at hotmail.com (Ken)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:28:10 -0800
Subject: Implementation Advice
Message-ID: <a6tefs$opi$1@horsefly.nf.net>

Hey everyone..

I'm trying to create a system where users log in, and based on how they log
in or who they log in as, they get a different set of functionality.

A really simple example would be a multi-room chat, where each room has some
common functionality (ie.send/receive messages) and some extras like
different color text.

I'd like to keep the functionality for each room in a separate file.

My question is, should each file have a class declaration (using inheritance
where appropriate) containing the necessary additional functions,
initialization, etc.. Or, should each file contain a series of functions?
One common to all files to initialize a room and then modify it and add
functions to it as necessary?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and my apologies if it makes no sense :)

Ken

P.S. Just wanted to add that I'm rather new to Python and I've got to say
that I'm really impressed with both the language and the community :)




From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Tue Mar 19 01:38:57 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:38:57 +1100
Subject: Java and Python
In-Reply-To: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com>
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200203190639.GAA17904@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:33, Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
> 2. Will Python dominate?
> 3. Who does support Python?

Please go look at http://www.python.org/, there's plenty of resources there 
to answer your questions.


    Richard



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Wed Mar  6 06:07:53 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 03:07:53 -0800
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com>

If I understand your question correctly, you can do it like in java:

>>> class Spam:
...  def sayYesBut(self, caller):
...   print "Yes %s, but I'm %s !" % (caller, self)
...
>>> class Egg:
...  def __init__(self):
...   self.spam = Spam()
...  def saySomething(self):
...   self.spam.sayYesBut(self)
...
>>> egg = Egg()
>>> egg.saySomething()
Yes <__main__.Egg instance at 0x01227338>, but I'm <__main__.Spam instance
at 0x0125CC88> !
>>>

But:
- 'self' is used in Python in place of 'this' in java
- 'self' is mandatory (no implicit reference to the instance)
- 'self' is not a reserved word but a **STRONG** naming convention for the
first argument of every method that always refer to the instance

PS. Here is a way to do it magically. It comes from the excellent post 'Get
reference to "owner"' from ... yesterday ! This is powerfull and funny but
IMHO it hurts good principles of design.

>>> class Egg:
...  def __init__(self):
...   self.spam = Spam()
...  def saySomething(self):
...   self.spam.sayYesBut(self)
...  def saySomethingElse(self):
...   self.spam.sayNo()
...
>>> class Spam:
...  def sayYesBut(self, caller):
...   print "Yes %s, but I'm %s !" % (caller, self)
...  def sayNo(self):
...   caller = sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self']
...   print "No %s, but I'm %s !" % (caller, self)
...
>>> egg = Egg()
>>> egg.saySomething()
Yes <__main__.Egg instance at 0x0126E098>, but I'm <__main__.Spam instance
at 0x010F7DA8> !
>>> egg.saySomethingElse()
No <__main__.Egg instance at 0x0126E098>, but I'm <__main__.Spam instance at
0x010F7DA8> !
>>>

B.

Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> 
> I am new to python and have a question how to achieve $subject.
> 
> I want something like the 'this' statement in java that gives you the
> current object. So when I call a method like f(this) I give the object
> that calls the method as argument.
> But how can I do this in python?
> I am using python 2.1.
> 
> Bye
> Marco
> -- 
> This life is a test.  It is only a test.  Had this been an actual life, you
> would have received further instructions as to what to do and where to go.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Mar  1 13:28:50 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 10:28:50 -0800
Subject: Apology to Bill Gates (was Re: ASV module, CVS modules)
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0203010407.220cba32@posting.google.com> <mailman.1014988382.18886.python-list@python.org> <ud6yowepw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203011028.4434415f@posting.google.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<ud6yowepw.fsf at python.net>...
> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> 
> >     John> Python, starting from a Unix background, where there is evidently
> >     John> no such thing as an invalid character in a file name, ...
> > 
> > I believe "/" is not allowed in Unix filenames.  Not sure if this is
> > escapable or not.
> 
> Don't think so.  NULLs are out, too.

It is not a case of "not allowed". You simply can't supply a file name
containing a "/" or a NUL (not a *NULL*) because "/" is interpreted as
a path separator and NUL as a string terminator.

My point was that Unix doesn't proactively check to see if you are
trying to create a file whose name you may never see again.


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Thu Mar 14 12:13:03 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:13:03 -0600
Subject: Conditional Import
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D68956@SRM201002>

> 
> Right now, I've this hack in the middle of my code
> 
> try:
>     from codeop import CommandCompiler
> except:
>     from MockCommandCompiler import CommandCompiler
> 
> But if I have to put up with a work around like this, I'd 
> prefer that it be fairly elegant.  Or at least standard...
> 


Well, it's *almost* standard. Just a little modification:

	from exceptions import ImportError
	try:
		from codeop import CommandCompiler
	except ImportError:
		from MockCommandCompiler import CommandCompiler

and that's it. :-)

It's fairly used, look into some of the standard modules,
mainly in conjunction with StringIO/cStringIO.

Salutations!

-gustavo



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 19:17:11 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:17:11 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <8gv3au47846mgol398j4oc5t0ufoi274b4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa4o82.3ib.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:05:58 GMT, Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>And then, when you begin to flesh out your code, you would have to 
>>get rid of the extraneous passes you didn't want to add (assuming 
>>you are like me) in the first place. So the with-pass version 
>>requires more effort, and is more verbose, for no good reason.
>
>The reasons are related to the implementation and not the design
>of Python, I believe.

Oh?

Can it really be hard to modify python so that pass is optional?

The relvant file is grammar, line 68 of which reads:

   suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt+ DEDENT

I wonder if I could change this to something like:

   suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt+ DEDENT | NEWLINE

(It's current;ly compiling; i will get back on this)

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From it.santiago at memo.volvo.se  Fri Mar 15 13:12:27 2002
From: it.santiago at memo.volvo.se (Santiago)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:27 -0300
Subject: Wrong transfer of data (ODBC)
Message-ID: <a6tdj0$rfb$1@vg170.it.volvo.se>

I was trying to use the 'Python ODBC Notes (Windows Only)'  wrote by John
Dell'Aguila 2/11/98.(at the bottom you will see the program)
I used the ODBC using Python Database API. from the AS/400 database to the
PC Windows.

But when I get the data from the AS/400 I get the string fields okay, but
the fields with decimals , like price, it appears with wrong decimals.
The price field in the AS/400 has eleven digits (9 integers and 2 decimals).

For example, the data in the AS/400 is 15860.94  but what I get is
15860.94000000001.
Column descriptions:
          ('mater', 'STRING', 20, 20, 0, 0, 0)
          ('descr', 'STRING', 18, 18, 0, 0, 0)
          ('price', 'NUMBER', 13, 11, 11, 2, 0)
          ('stock', 'NUMBER', 7, 5, 5, 0, 0)
Data
('                 9534', 'GEARBOX              ', 15860.940000000001, 0L)
('                 9632', 'GEARBOX              ', 15962.969999999999, 1L)
('                 9642', 'GEARBOX              ', 15090.389999999999, 0L)
('                 9643', 'GEARBOX O          ', 15090.389999999999, 1L)
('                 9686', 'GEARBOX  8686    ', 15090.389999999999, 1L)
('                 9827', 'GEARBOX 8827     ', 18053.43, 0L)
('                 9862', 'GEARBOX  8862    ', 15962.969999999999, 0L)
('                 9892', 'GEARBOX 8892     ', 17155.32, 0L)
('                 9908', 'GEARBOX 18         ', 18535.619999999999, 0L)
('                 9911', 'GEARBOX 8911     ', 18053.43, 0L)

Where is the problem?
David

PD: program that I used as a base:

   import dbi, odbc     # ODBC modules
   import time          # standard time module

   dbc = odbc.odbc(     # open a database connection
       'sample/monty/spam'  # 'datasource/user/password'
       )
   crsr = dbc.cursor()  # create a cursor
   crsr.execute(        # execute some SQL
       """
       SELECT country_id, name, insert_change_date
       FROM country
       ORDER BY name
       """
       )
   print 'Column descriptions:'  # show column descriptions
   for col in crsr.description:
       print ' ', col
   result = crsr.fetchall()      # fetch the results all at once
   print '\nFirst result row:\n ', result[0]  # show first result row
   print '\nDate conversions:'   # play with dbiDate object
   date = result[0][-1]
   fmt = '  %-25s%-20s'
   print fmt % ('standard string:', str(date))
   print fmt % ('seconds since epoch:', float(date))
   timeTuple = time.localtime(date)
   print fmt % ('time tuple:', timeTuple)
   print fmt % ('user defined:', time.strftime('%d %B %Y', timeTuple))
   -------------------------------output--------------------------------

   Column descriptions:
     ('country_id', 'NUMBER', 12, 10, 10, 0, 0)
     ('name', 'STRING', 45, 45, 0, 0, 0)
     ('insert_change_date', 'DATE', 19, 19, 0, 0, 1)

   First result row:
     (24L, 'ARGENTINA', <DbiDate object at 7f1c80>)

   Date conversions:
     standard string:         Fri Dec 19 01:51:53 1997
     seconds since epoch:     882517913.0
     time tuple:              (1997, 12, 19, 1, 51, 53, 4, 353, 0)
     user defined:            19 December 1997





From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  9 15:55:40 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:55:40 GMT
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <gFui8.12348$hO6.1254527@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3c8a4042.46048234 at news.t-online.de...
> Bored, I spent the past few hours writing a small, 100% useless
> language. It doesn't have a name, so I call it UNBABTIZED (as in:
has
> not been given a name yet), which is, right there, a
> self-contradiction. What a good start!

You apparently meant UNBAPTIZED, but since you baptized it as you did,
its too late 8-)





From kragen at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 13:59:30 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 13:59:30 -0500
Subject: Optimising list comparison
References: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>
Message-ID: <83it7sidt9.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Graham Ashton <graz at mindless.com> writes:
> A friend of mine is using Python in a research project where he needs to
> compare each element of two vectors, such that comparing [a, b, c] and 
> [d, e, f] would involve comparing a with d, b with e and c with f.

Numeric.alltrue(Numeric.logical_or(a == b, Numeric.logical_or(a == -1,
                                                              b == -1)))

It might not be faster than psyco, but it will be faster than looping
in interpreted Python over all the elements of each vector if the
vectors are relatively large.



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Fri Mar 29 21:49:17 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:49:17 GMT
Subject: thanks all! it's great
References: <Kwpo8.18614$EE4.60649@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <a7tuks$o582t$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <a7u7je$s7f$0@216.39.172.122> <a80hr3$mb5$0@216.39.172.122> <a80oq0$av7$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <NI9p8.1486$hi7.3039@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:a80oq0$av7$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On 29 Mar 2002 02:00:03 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> [...]
> >Here is something to deal with the key order problem (i.e., if one
> >key is a substring of another. You have to sort by length to get
> >maximal or minimal matching. This is for maximal:
> >
> > >>> def dirinterp(s,d):
> > ...     import re
> > ...     klist = [(-len(k),k) for k in d.keys()]
> > ...     klist.sort()
> > ...     resp = re.compile('('+'|'.join([k for l,k in klist])+')')
> > ...     return ''.join([kv.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
>                           ^^--oops, that worked because of a leftover
global ;-/
> > ...
> > >>> subdir = {"sub":"<was sub>","substring":"<was substring>"}
> > >>> dirinterp("Will sub or substring be replaced?",subdir)
> > 'Will <was sub> or <was substring> be replaced?'
> > >>> dirinterp("Will substring or sub be replaced?",subdir)
> > 'Will <was substring> or <was sub> be replaced?'
> >
> >This is hardly tested at all, but I guess it could be handy.
> Must run in fresh interpreter before posting ;-/
>
>  >>> from miscutil import subbydict
>  >>> d={'x':'A', 'xx':'B','xxx':'C'}
>  >>> s='xxxxxx xxxx xxx xx x'
>  >>> subbydict(s,d)
>  'CC CA C B A'
>  >>> s='xxxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xx x'
>  >>> subbydict(s,d)
>  'CC CB CA C B A'
>
> where name changed and kv->d
>
> def subbydict(s,d):
>     import re
>     klist = [(-len(k),k) for k in d.keys()]
>     klist.sort()
>     resp = re.compile('('+'|'.join([k for l,k in klist])+')')
>     return ''.join([d.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 04:50:25 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:50:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is there a good reason why we cannot (as of 2.1.1) deepcopy complex objects?
References: <mailman.1015995502.4050.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91D06392A1951duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in 
news:mailman.1015995502.4050.python-list at python.org:

> [Carl Banks]
>> Subject: Is there a good reason why we cannot (as of 2.1.1) deepcopy
>> complex objects?
> 
> I doubt it.  Works fine in 2.2:

Although you could perhaps have mentioned that deepcopy of a complex number 
does not in fact copy it (it returns the original number). This is of 
course correct behaviour for immutable objects.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Tue Mar  5 10:06:01 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 07:06:01 -0800
Subject: Generators and iterators
Message-ID: <df3b00ed.0203050706.4487c1bd@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I just quickly red the page about new features in Python 2.2 and tried - for
fun - to test it. It must be obvious but I really don't see why, in the
console transcript below, z.next() send back None and not 1,2 and 3
whereas it does it correctly 3 times, no more no less.

TIA.

B.

Sorry for the methods and class names. Here is it:

PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> from __future__ import generators
>>> def t():
...  yield 1
...  yield 2
...  yield 3
...
>>> tt = t()
>>> tt
<generator object at 0x010958F8>
>>> tt.next()
1
>>> tt.next()
2
>>> tt.next()
3
>>> tt.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
StopIteration
>>> class Z:
...  def __init__(self):
...   self.ttt=t()
...  def __iter__(self):
...   return self
...  def next(self):
...   self.ttt.next()
...
>>> z=Z()
>>> for i in z:
...  print i
...
None
None
None
>>> z=Z()
>>> z.next()
>>> z.next()
>>> z.next()
>>> z.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 7, in next
StopIteration


From attila-kenez at vnet.hu  Tue Mar 26 08:15:25 2002
From: attila-kenez at vnet.hu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ken=E9z_Attila?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:15:25 +0100
Subject: beginner
Message-ID: <BLEIKGBADIGIBMGPPNFNAEGJCBAA.attila-kenez@vnet.hu>

Hi!

I am a beginner using Python and I have two problems.

I would like two write an installer program in Python, that works on any
computer with Wondow OS, so that is not nesseccary to have Python
interpreter on it. Is there a simple (or a difficult) way to do it?

The other question is about pyd files. I did not found any mention about it
in the documentation. I want to access a database under SAP DB from Python,
and for that I need to use the sapdb.pyd file. I tried to move it to a
directory in PATH and PYTHONPATH but the interpreter dropped an error at the
import statement. How I have to use these kind of files?

Thanks:

		Attila Kenez




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 21 01:20:35 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 07:20:35 +0100
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3sn6uv3v0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

obsidian_genius at yahoo.com (Jill Obsidian) writes:

> I have need to write some Python scripts that run on Windows as well
> as Linux/Unix.
> 
> In some instances I will be making os.system() calls to execute
> applications installed locally on the machine.
> 
> How can I put a check in my script which will allow me to determine
> whether I'm running on Windows or Linux at execution time?

If you want to run an executable, don't check for the system - check
whether the executable exists: os.path.exists("/bin/ps").

HTH,
Martin


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 18:59:24 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:59:24 -0500
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net> <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com> <mailman.1016700873.1797.python-list@python.org> <3C9A466F.7D6D6AE9@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A73DC.A354F58@engcorp.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> Dave Swegen wrote:
> 
> > > Rich Salz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define?
> > > >  >... are globals the only way to go?
> > > >
> > > > You can at least make them class attributes
> > > >         class constants:
> > > >                 pi = 3.14159
> > > >                 e = 2.71828
> > > > adding your own setattr can serve to make them read-only.

> You can use some interesting hacks to make the constants module read-only,
> if necessary (see the ASPN Python Cookbook), but since I'm typically the
> only person using my code I've decided to simply trust myself.  ;)

And thank you for that, since if, after all, you decide to distribute
your code, the rest of us can improve it without changing your source, 
which wouldn't be possible if you'd gone all whips and chains on us 
and made it read-only:

import constants                  # get Jeff's constants
constants.pi = 3.141592653589793  # tighten up pi a little...

:-)

-Peter


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Tue Mar 19 08:46:13 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 13:46:13 GMT
Subject: Book Draft Available: Text Processing in Python
References: <mailman.1015993462.32701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a77ff5$205o$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1015993462.32701.python-list at python.org>, 
 David Mertz, Ph.D. wrote:

> Pythonistas:

> As some folks know, I am working on a book called _Text Processing in
> Python_.  With the gracious permission of my publisher, Addison Wesley,
> I am hereby making in-progress drafts of the book available to the
> Python community.  It's about half done right now, but that will
> increase over time.

> Take a look at the book URL: 		http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/

> I welcome any comments or feedback the Python community has about my
> book.

> Yours, David...

 I was glancing through it and stopped when I read your word
 counter (with no support for the command line options).  I just
 had to do one to emulate the GNU wc utility as closely as I can
 in one quick session.

 Below is a somewhat more faithful rendering of the GNU wc command.
 Although it's about 120 lines long, almost forty of those are 
 blank lines, docstrings, or comments.  In most cases it gives output
 that is identical to GNU wc (including the character spacing).  
 The only discrepancies I've seen are in the -L (--max-line-length)
 calculation (particularly on binary files).

 It's pedagogical value is more in the use of the getopts module
 and possibly in file iteration (for line in file: ...).  The text 
 processing being done here is trivial.  There's also a little bit 
 of exception handling, and a minimal amount of error avoidance --- 
 since Python will allow me to open a directory but will complain if 
 I try to read lines therefrom).

 It is mildly interesting that this Python implementation of wc
 is only about a third the length of the GNU version from the 
 text utils package (wc.c is 371 lines).  Actually counting words
 and characters the Python version is only about half the length.
 (Glancing at the sources I see that I missed support for the 
 POSIXLY_CORRECT environment variable -- which modifies, or uglifies
 if you prefer, the output format; I could add that in a few lines).

 David, you're welcome to use this script as an example.  Perhaps
 you could list this as an example of how 14 lines of simple, focused
 code grows to 140 lines by the time we add option handling, help
 and error messages, exception handling and error avoidance, and all
 that other stuff.  (If you really want to scare people you could 
 include the wc.c from the GNU textutils package by way of comparison).

#!/usr/bin/env python2.2
import sys, os
""" wc: Emulate GNU wc (word count) """

help = '''Usage: wc [OPTION]... [FILE]...
Print line, word, and byte counts for each FILE, and a total line if
more than one FILE is specified.  With no FILE, or when FILE is -,
read standard input.
  -c, --bytes, --chars   print the byte counts
  -l, --lines            print the newline counts
  -L, --max-line-length  print the length of the longest line
  -w, --words            print the word counts
      --help             display this help and exit
      --version          output version information and exit
Report bugs to <jimd+python at starshine.org>'''

version = """Python word count: wc(1) emulation by James T. Dennis 
 version 0.1"""

def options():
	"""Process command line options"""
	import getopt
	short = "clLw"
	long  = ('bytes', 'chars', 'lines', 'max-line-length', 
			 'words', 'help', 'version')          
	try:
		opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], short, long)
	except getopt.GetoptError,err:
		msg = "wc: invalid option \nTry `wc --help' for more information." 
		print >> sys.stderr, sys.argv[0], err
		print >> sys.stderr, msg
		sys.exit(1)
	return opts, args

def count(f=None):
	"""Count and return words, chars, lines, and maxlength"""
	# We count them all, since that's and much easier than alot of 
	# conditional logic to decide what to count.  
	# We return it all, and main() can decide what to return.
	lines = words = chars = maxline = 0
	if f == None: file = sys.stdin
	else:
		if os.path.isdir(f):
			print >> sys.stderr, "wc: %s: Is a directory" % f
			return lines, words, chars, maxline 
		try:
			file = open(f,'r')
		except IOError:
			print >> sys.stderr, "Error opening:", f
			return lines, words, chars, maxline 
		# If we get this far, we can count stuff
	for line in file:
		length = len(line)
		lines += 1
		chars += length
		words += len(line.split())
		if length - 1 > maxline: maxline = length - 1 
		# GNU wc doesn't count line terminator in maxlength?
		# +++ binary files anve much different line length semantics!
	return lines, words, chars, maxline 

def printcount(flags, totals, filename=None):
	"""Print counts for each file and for the grand totals
	   takes two 4-tuples, the flags for which items to print, and 
	   the total lines, words, characters, and max-line-length 
	   and an optional filename"""
	if filename == None: filename = ""
	dolines, dochars, dowords, domaxln = flags
	l, w, c, m = totals
	print "",		# GNU wc prints one leading space?
	if dolines: 	print "%6d" % l,
	if dowords: 	print "%7d" % w,
	if dochars:		print "%7d" % c,
	if domaxln:		print "%7d" % m,
	print filename

if __name__ == "__main__":
	opts, args = options()
	dolines = dochars = dowords = domaxln = 0
	for opt,arg in opts:
		if opt == '--help': 		
			print help
			sys.exit()
		elif opt == '--version': 	
			print version
			sys.exit()
		elif opt in ('-l', '--lines'): 				dolines = 1
		elif opt in ('-c', '--chars', '--bytes'): 	dochars = 1
		elif opt in ('-w', '--words'): 				dowords = 1
		elif opt in ('-L', '--max-line-length'): 	domaxln = 1
	
	if dolines + dochars + dowords + domaxln == 0:
		# None specified so default is to do lines, chars, and words
		dolines = dochars = dowords = 1
		# Else we do only the ones that are specified
		# GNU wc always prints the stats in the same order, regardless
		# of the order of the options/switches.
	printflags = (dolines, dochars, dowords, domaxln)

	if not args: 	
		# No files named: so just do stdin 
		# No grand totals. and no filename
		l, w, c, m = count()
		printcount (printflags, (l,w,c,m))
	else: 			# Else we do each file and keep track of grand totals
		all_lines = all_words = all_chars = longest_line = 0 
		files_processed = 0	
		for i in args: 
			if i == '-': 	l, w, c, m = count()
			else: 			l, w, c, m = count(i)
			all_lines += l
			all_words += w
			all_chars += c
			if m > longest_line: longest_line = m
			printcount (printflags, (l,w,c,m), i)
			files_processed += 1
		if files_processed > 1: 			# Print totals
			totals = (all_lines, all_words, all_chars, longest_line)
			printcount (printflags, totals, "total")



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 14:07:49 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 19:07:49 GMT
Subject: os.fchown, avoiding a race condition
References: <a7s2kr$ds0$1@knossos.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <a7t5a5$12ud$2@news.idiom.com>

In article <a7s2kr$ds0$1 at knossos.btinternet.com>, John Leach wrote:

>Hi,

> I haven't managed to find any reference in python (any version) to the
> unix system call fchown (SVr4, SVID, POSIX, X/OPEN).  There is chown, but
> not fchown.

> I'd like to create a file as a different user but would like to avoid a
> race condition by chowning via the file descriptor, but it seems I cannot.

> Does anyone know why this seems to be missing?  Any plans for it to
> appear?  Any other way I can do this?

> Thanks in advance.

>-John.

	If would be cool if os.chown was overloaded to take
	*either* a patch *or* a file descriptor (from 
	file_instance.fileno()) as its first argument.

	Should that be submitted as a PEP and/or patch?



From oliver.pust at web.de  Tue Mar 26 09:14:10 2002
From: oliver.pust at web.de (Oliver Pust)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:14:10 +0100
Subject: module for assessing gray levels of gray level bitmap?
References: <3C987942.9060309@web.de> <t65m8.26434$n4.5178275@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3CA08232.5040602@web.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Oliver Pust wrote:
> 
> 
>>is there a module for assessing the gray levels of gray level bitmap? I
>>am thinking of a module that allows to open a bmp-file and stores the
>>gray levels of each pixel in form of a matrix e.g. gray_level[x,y].
>>
> 
> http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm
> 
> from PIL import Image
> 
> im = Image.open("myimage.bmp")
> print im.getpixel((x, y))
Thank you, that is what I looked for.

Oliver



From warlock at eskimo.com  Wed Mar 20 03:23:52 2002
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:23:52 -0800
Subject: For loops with explicit indices -- again
References: <3c9789ed$0$29676$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <oug97a.go7.ln@127.0.0.1>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:57:29 +0100,
 Armin Rigo <arigo at ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> Here is yet another proposal (or did I miss something similar?) about the
> for-with-explicit-indices syntax problems, as discussed in PEP 281
> (http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0281.html).
> 
> Now that Python has iterators, they could be more explicitely used by user
> code. Remember that 'for x in sequence' is equivalent to 'for x in
> iter(sequence)', where iter() is used to get a sequence iterator. As it
> seems we often loop over sequence elements and occasionnally need an
> explicit index, I suggest adding a 'count' attribute to sequence iterators
> that returns the number of items returned so far. This just requires putting
> the iterator in a local variable. For example, to decrement all positive
> integers in a list, modifying it in-place:
> 
>     it = iter(lst)
>     for x in it:
>         if x>0:
>             lst[it.count-1] -= 1


I am missing something. How is this different from 

for x in len(lst):
    

?
 


-- 
Jim Richardson
	Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    Linux, for when you need to get work done, Or you could just play UT...


From heinlr at gmx.de  Sat Mar  2 12:34:33 2002
From: heinlr at gmx.de (heinl raimund)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:34:33 +0100
Subject: Error on pysnmp and/or BER Module in Python2.2
Message-ID: <3c810d55$0$139$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

i am using : Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
i use the pysnmp modul. for coding and encoding of
snmp packets pysnmp uses the BER Modul.

on function call to MyPySnmp_session.decode_value  i got the following
error:
session instance has no attribute
'decode_an_unsigned'-exceptions.AttributeError

is it a known bug - maybe a fixed BER/pysnmp Modul already exists ?

best regards

### CODE SNIPPLET

        session = pysnmp.session(agent, community)      # create a SNMP
session
        #the session is always not NONE - its not possible at this point to
validate a password

        for objid in lobjid:                    # encode objids
            #DBG(DBG_SNMPLO, "snmpget: %s + %s ", objid, poid)

encoded_oids.append(session.encode_oid(session.str2nums(objid+poid)))

        # build a packet
        packet = session.encode_request ('GETREQUEST', encoded_oids,
encoded_vals)

        # send SNMP request and receive a response
        packet = session.send_and_receive (packet)
        if packet == None: # if None stop condition occured
            return (-2, None)

        # parse a response packet
        (encoded_oids, encoded_vals) = session.decode_response (packet)

        index = 0
        while index < len(encoded_oids):                # decode objs & vals
            objid = session.decode_value(encoded_oids[index])



            # in Python2.2 an !!!!!!!!!!! ERROR !!!!!!!!!!!!!
            # session instance has no attribute
'decode_an_unsigned'-exceptions.AttributeError
            value = session.decode_value(encoded_vals[index])



            lval.append(value)
            if  lprivoid != None:
                pos = string.find(objid, lobjid[index])
                #DBG(DBG_SNMPLO, "snmpget:oidfind %s,%s:%d", objid,
lobjid[index], pos)
                if pos != 0:                    # OID not at begin or not
found
                    privoid = objid             # return complete ???
                else:                           # ok strip requested OID
                    pos = len(lobjid[index])
                    privoid = objid[pos:]               # return private
part
                lprivoid.append(privoid)
            index = index + 1                   # go to the next objid

        if CallBackRead != None: CallBackRead(0)
        return (index, None)


--
===========================================================
Heinl Raimund                     SSH - Software Systeme Heinl
gepr.Wirtschaftsinformatiker IHK  Am Galling 3
91217 Hersbruck
Email: heinlr at gmx.de
===========================================================





From andreas at zope.com  Fri Mar  1 13:24:35 2002
From: andreas at zope.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:24:35 -0500
Subject: Does python have a  function  like similar_text  in PHP
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEIIOAAA.tim_one@email.msn.com>
Message-ID: <04ef01c1c14e$acf37210$02010a0a@suxlap>

I wrote a Python extension that implements the Levenshtein algorithm
that PHP uses too. The same extension als contains implementations
for soundex and metaphone.

Available from the CVS:

   http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyproximity

Andreas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Peters" <tim_one at email.msn.com>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 13:18
Subject: RE: Does python have a function like similar_text in PHP


> [ron nixon]
> > Does anyone know if Python has a function like similar_text in PHP. It
> > compares two strings and returns a percentage for the match.
>
> The .ratio() method of SequenceMatcher objects looks like a similar
gimmick,
> returning a "similarity score" as a float in [0, 1]:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/sequence-matcher.html
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl  Sat Mar  2 09:44:05 2002
From: h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl (husam)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:44:05 +0100
Subject: a simple 'else' decrease speed by 1000 times.
References: <3C80BBAC.2060600@student.kun.nl> <Xns91C59BFDB1196cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3C80E535.7000407@student.kun.nl>

Chris Liechti wrote:

> husam <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in news:3C80BBAC.2060600
> @student.kun.nl:
> 
>>One else statement decrease speed by 1000 times. Why is that?
>>
> ...
> 
>>                           if prv == n[i][-1]:
>>                                n[i].append(new)
>>                                print count, '\t', i , '\t',n[i]
>>                                count = count +1
>>                                break
>>                           else:
>>                                n[i].append(0)
>>
> 
> 'cause your not "break"-ing here? but you do in the "if-then" part...


It should not break here. Because imagin that the matching 'prv' is 
somewhere in a line in the middle of the file, the code will break 
immediately at the first non-matching line.



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar 27 23:39:09 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 04:39:09 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <uadstwexr.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>, David Bolen wrote:
> Mark's pages are at http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ where
> you can download the extensions for any Python release (1.5.2, 2.0,
> 2.1 and 2.2).  

I have vague memories of adding PythonWin to the Python CVS tree being
suggested on python-dev long ago.  Wonder if that idea should be
revived for 2.3?

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Oh, don't worry; I always leave things till the last moment.
    -- The Doctor, in "Ghost Light"


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 17:29:29 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:29:29 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEEAOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Guido]
>>     There's also the issue (which I've seen puzzling even experienced
>>     Pythonistas who had been away from the language for a while) that if
>>     you see:
>>
>>         >>> cmp(a, b)
>>         1
>>         >>> cmp(a, a)
>>         0
>>         >>>
>>
>>     you might be tempted to believe that cmp() also returned a truth
>>     value.  If ints are not (normally) used for Booleans results, this
>>     would stand out much more clearly as something completely
>>     different.

[Paul Rubin]
> If cmp returns a boolean, it can no longer distinguish the 3 cases
> a < b, a == b, or a > b.  That is seriously broken.

He didn't suggest changing cmp.  He's saying that if functions that return
bools printed True/False instead of 1/0, people would be much less likely to
fall into the trap of believing cmp() returns a bool (cmp() would continue
to display not True/False, but little integers).




From van at lindbergs.org  Tue Mar 26 19:06:32 2002
From: van at lindbergs.org (VanL)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:06:32 -0700
Subject: One tiny embedding problem, please
Message-ID: <3CA10D08.8000409@lindbergs.org>

Hello,

Do to various constraints, I am having to use C for a certain project, 
even after I did the (working!) prototype in Python.  I am trying to 
embed python so as to not lose my work.

I have it working and compiling, but I am not getting values out 
correctly.  I think this is just a tiny problem, but I haven't been able 
to fix it.

Code is below, can anyone spot the error?

Thanks,

VanL

Here is the C function:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
void getWP(WP *WP_ptr)
{
    int status;
    PyObject *results;
    status = PP_Run_Function(
            "code", "getWP",
            "O", &results,
            "(i)", 1);

    if (status == -1)
    {
        printf("\n\nScript Error: Get WP Failed.\n");
        PyErr_Print();
    }
    PyArg_ParseTuple(results, "(fff)", &WP_ptr->id, &WP_ptr->x, &WP_ptr->y);
    Py_DECREF(results);
}
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is the python being called:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
def getWP():
    num = get_sequence() * 1.0
    print "I'm returning," (num, 1.0, 2.0)
    return (num, 1.0, 2.0)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is the test function in C:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
   for (i=0; i<2; i++)
    {
        x +=2;
        y +=4;
        v +=8;
        printf("\nInput: %d, %d, %d\n", x, y, v);
        update(x, y, v);
        printf("Updated.");

        getWP(WP_ptr);
        printf("Got WP");
        printf("\nOutput: %f, %f, %f\n\n\n", WP_ptr->id, WP_ptr->x, 
WP_ptr->y);
    }
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And here is the output:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Input: 2, 4, 8
1
Updated.I'm returning (2.0, 1.0, 2.0)
Got WP
Output: 0.000000, -1.997108, 0.000000



Input: 4, 8, 16
3
Updated.I'm returning (4.0, 1.0, 2.0)
Got WP
Output: 0.000000, -1.997108, 0.000000





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 09:49:08 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:49:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91DC968198921duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Gilles Diribarne <gdiribarne at udcast.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list at python.org:

> EXAMPLE:
> 
> pythona.py:
>   def func():
>     a = 1
>     if a == 1:
>       a ==2
> 
> 
> 
> pythonb.py
>     def func2():
>         a = 2
>         if a == 2:
>              print "Yeah!"
> 
> 
> You cannot merge correctly or tell me how to do this ?
> 

Sadly, neither pythona.py nor pythonb.py is syntactically valid. To make 
them acceptable to Python, you must remove all the indentation before the 
'def' keywords. Once you do this, so that each function begins with a line 
that is not indented your problem goes away. Just copy and paste the code, 
and even though the function bodies are indented differently everything 
will work.

In practice copying Python code is less usual than in many other languages 
because Python makes it so much easier to reuse code in-place without 
copying. Just remember to put the body of any script in a block with "if 
__name__=='__main__':" guarding it, and you can then safely import the 
script and pick out any functions you need at runtime.

Code reuse beats copying.

BTW, Python does have a block end marker. It is spelled '# end'. Look in 
your Python installation for the file Tools/Scripts/pindent.py. Running 
this program with the -c option will 'correct' your code to use the block 
end marker everywhere. The -d option will make your code readable to 
everyone else again. If you mess up the indentation then the -r option will 
use the #end markers to put indentation back in again.
See also reindent.py in the same directory for making source files use 
consistent indentation.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Mar 25 02:23:47 2002
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 07:23:47 GMT
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <mailman.1017014137.17415.python-list@python.org> <a7m0sc$iq9$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrna9tk4n.3td.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> ... sort of interesting, FWIW. Has someone done a proper showinfo(x) utility to
> do this kind of thing for various objects? Hard to believe not.

Try e.g.

from pydoc import help
help(ValueError)

Or even do 'pydoc -p 5000' from a command line, and point your browser at
http://127.0.0.1:5000/

Pydoc is neat.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Sun Mar 10 11:07:18 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:07:18 -0500
Subject: range Failure?
Message-ID: <3C8B84B6.DB3F8E9A@sympatico.ca>

  
Thanks to Oleg and Sean.  It was a silly error. 

Sean, 

What you say is, on reflection, obvious. 
Perhaps the doc could better bring this out? 

The help now has: 
     range([start,] stop[, step]) 
     This is a versatile function to create lists containing arithmetic
     progressions. It is most often used in for loops. The arguments
     must be plain integers. If the step argument is omitted, it
     defaults to 1. If the start argument is omitted, it defaults to
     0. The full form returns a list of plain integers [start, start +
     step, start + 2 * step, ...].  If step is positive, the last
     element is the largest start + i * step less than stop; if step is
     negative, the last element is the largest start + i * step greater
     than stop. step must not be zero (or else ValueError is raised). 

It might say:   

     range([start= 0,] stop[, step= 1]) 
     This function creates a list containing an arithmetic progression.
     The arguments must be integers.   If only one argument is passed it 
     is the 'stop' value, if two values are passed then the first is the
     'start' value and the second the 'stop' value.
     The function returns a list of integers [start, start + step, start
     + 2 * step, ...]. The 'step' must not be zero; if 'step' is positive, 
     the last element is the largest; if  'step' is negative, the last
     element is the smallest.

Colin W. 

      
Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: 

  On 09-Mar-2002 Colin J. Williams wrote: 
  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> 
  > <html> 
  > It would seem that the first execution below should deliver the same 
  > <br>result as the second. 
  > <br>>>> range(5, 2) 
  > <br>[] 
  > <br>>>> range(0, 5, 2) 
  > <br>[0, 2, 4] 

  GAH! kill the html please. 

  range(5,2) says "start at 5 and go to 2" which makes no sense and thus
returns 
  an empty list. 

  from the python source: 

          if (PyTuple_Size(args) <= 1) { 
                  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, 
                                  "l;range() requires 1-3 int
arguments", 
                                  &ihigh)) 
                          return NULL; 
          } 
          else { 
                  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, 
                                  "ll|l;range() requires 1-3 int
arguments", 
                                  &ilow, &ihigh, &istep)) 
                          return NULL; 
          } 

  Look at the last arguments to each funtion.  If one argument is passed
  it because the high value (endpoint).  Otherwise the values are 
  assigned in order to low, high and then step (which defaults to 1).



From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 20 04:10:32 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:10:32 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a79jmp$jg0ba$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:m3pu1z91y6.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:
>
> > I know there are several solutions available for building standalone
> > binary executables from Python programs (Freeze, py2exe, McMillan
> > Installer, etc.) -- I just wondered if it would be possible to add
> > functionality like this to distutils?
>
> That is certainly possible; freeze would be the obvious choice for
> such a mechanism (IMO). Alas, distutils is unmaintained, so don't wait
> for anybody else to implement it for you.
>

I have never *seriously* tried freeze, maybe I gave up too
early. Also I have the impression that some people are actually
using freeze, but I never heard definitive words about it's status.

Problems with freeze, IMO, are that it requires a C-compiler,
which most people on windows do not have, also the resulting
files are much larger than those created by py2exe or installer,
because the byte codes are not compressed.


Thomas




From gcordova at hebmex.com  Thu Mar  7 10:19:45 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:19:45 -0600 
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B49@SRM201002>

> 
> By contrast, the child can't converse effectively with his peers for
> three to four years, and can't hold his own in a conversation with an
> adult for even longer than that.
> 

This is a little something which has always piqued my
curiosity. It's true that children sometimes don't make
much sense to us ("TO US") until they have breached a
certain threshold in knowledge / social rules / vocabulary.

But, what about identical twins, who speak their own language
well before they start speaking their parents? Aren't they
communicating with their peer(s)?

I'm not criticising your comment, actually I'm probably
proving it by providing the exception :-)

Sometimes I wonder if I'd have twice the fun if I was two,
er, had a twin. :-) Or maybe I'd be twice as silly and make
half as much sense.

Have a nice thursday :-)

-gustavo



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 30 00:52:46 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 05:52:46 GMT
Subject: string copying
References: <mailman.1017447886.2741.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a83jre$4d5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:22:45 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Peter Hansen]
>> The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
>> common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
>> quickly by something like:
>>
>> a = [0] * 1000000
>> for i in xrange(1000000):
>>     a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'
>
>Hmm.  A much easier way to consume vast quantities of memory quickly is to
>skip the for-loop and just increase the multiplier on the first line.  If
>you're on a 32-bit machine, and want to consume N bytes, use N/4 as the
>multiplier.
>
s = 'x'*2**30 would be a quick gig too. But it made me think maybe one could
write a sort of memory test (to exercise the available python space, anyway).
Does python run out of memory gracefully? I'm afraid to try it (have NT4, 320MB,
and too many things running a lot).

Anyway, one could generate binary patterns and chr() the 8-bit pieces and join
them into say megabyte chunks, and then compare sequentially with a the regenerated
sequence. And do it for different patterns. Not like doing it from a bootable floppy,
but still some exercise. You could use long random sequences. ... hm, I wonder if
dual CPUs running in a dedicated test would have a better chance of jangling
motherboard signals with patterns beating against each other than a single CPU...

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Fri Mar 15 08:27:05 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:27:05 -0500
Subject: further infos
In-Reply-To: <a6srv3$tbo$00$1@news.t-online.com>; from s.ernst@web.de on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 02:11:43PM +0100
References: <a6srv3$tbo$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20020315082705.A17341@phy.duke.edu>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 02:11:43PM +0100, Sascha Ernst wrote:
> 1. "command not found" is the error message. how can I get more detailed
> infos?
> 2. the dev tools are ok, I compiled Ruby some days ago successfully

whaaa?

1) this is a python list... not a ruby list...

2) I'll try and employ my ESP anyway:

   "command not found" is a common shell error.  Are you running
   (python or ruby, whatever) under unix?  If so, do you have the
   proper shebang?

   For example, your files should probably start with
  
   #!/usr/bin/env python

   If this isn't there, the file will usually be interpreted as a
   shell script and almost certainly throw errors.  This can be
   unpleasant if the first non-comment is an import :)

3) you get more detailed infos when you give us more detailed infos :)

					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 12 08:37:32 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 08:37:32 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (fwd)
References: <mailman.1015904060.25572.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6l0as$520$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1015904060.25572.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters  <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>there's-more-than-one-to-do-indirection-in-python-ly y'rs  - tim

TMTOWTDI?!?!?!?!  <whap!><whap!><whap!>
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>          http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From amoustafa at pobox.com  Thu Mar 21 02:55:05 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:55:05 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C9991C0.4080102@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Here's my best answer to you:  I happen to hire programmers
> to work on my team in a wireless telecom company.  Although
> we happen to have chosen to use Python in addition to C and
> a few minor languages like Javascript and Assembly, where 
> necessary, the language we use is hardly the most important
> thing.  
> 
> Communication skills are, first and foremost, the thing I 
> look for in hiring.  This includes the softer social skills
> like how to work in a team and put aside one's programming
> ego.  Next are adaptability, as in how easily someone can 
> pick up new skills and apply them effectively.  Design 
> skills are useful.  Debugging skills are very valuable, 
> though rather unfortunately rare.  Probably some others 
> that don't come to mind in today's economy (we're not
> hiring now :-).

Peter, what do you think about qualifying problem sets like what 
arsDigita had? <http://www.arsdigita.com/boot-camp/psets/>

-- 
Ahmed Moustafa



From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 13 13:18:08 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:18:08 GMT
Subject: Newbie: Undefined reference when initializing Python
References: <mailman.1016042123.7905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uzo1cqqfi.fsf@python.net>

"henrikb666" <evil_wicked at ofir.dk> writes:

[...]
> I already include <Python.h> at the top of the TServer.cc file, so 
> that's not it. Could it have something to do with my Makefile?

You need to link to Python; there should be a "-lpython" in there
somewhere (and probably a "-L/some/path/or/other/" too).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  There's an aura of unholy black magic about CLISP.  It works, but
  I have no idea how it does it.  I suspect there's a goat involved
  somewhere.                     -- Johann Hibschman, comp.lang.scheme


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 20 18:08:33 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:08:33 GMT
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <RD8m8.27456$e33.26506@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

Like Tim said, the module is getting reloaded but instances aren't getting
re-instantiated.  If it's not too time-intensive, use the if
__name__=="__main__" trick in your script.

if __name__ == "__main__":
    reload(wibbleModule)
    wibs = wibble(args)
    wibs.test1()
    wibs.test2()

and just run it again from the interpreter.

If that's too slow and you want to use some really bad voodoo, you can also
modify the classes in-place:

PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> class foo:
...  def meth(self):
...   print "xxx"
...
>>> bar = foo()
>>> bar.meth()
xxx
>>> def newMeth(self):
...  print "yyy"
...
>>> foo.meth = newMeth
>>> bar.meth()
yyy


--
-

"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote in message
news:un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3 at 4ax.com...
> I can't believe I'm doing this this best way.
>
> I am debugging a large system written in Python with modules spread
> over 4 directories. I'm using PythonWin under Win2K to set-up the
> environment and run the code.
>
> Setting up the environment typically involves the following commands:
>
> import sys
> sys.path.append("x:\\whereever")
> from wibbleModule import wibble
> wibs = wibble(args)
>
> wibs.methods(args)
>
> <error...>
>
> At this point, I fix the error.
>
> Now, I haven't figured out a way of continueing past this point
> without quiting and starting from scratch because there appears to be
> no way to get Python to reload a module. The reload() function doesn't
> do it.
>
> I've tried stuff like this:
>
> del wibs
> reload(sys.modules['wibbleModule']
>
> but I still seem to have the old version loaded.
>
> I've also tried using PyCrust for this but it suffers from the same
> problems. I assume IDLE does too.
>
> How do others go about interactively debugging large Python OO-based
> systems?
>
> Thanks for any pointers.
> --
> Dale Strickland-Clark
> Riverhall Systems Ltd




From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 03:00:33 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:00:33 GMT
Subject: socket
Message-ID: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I am trying to write a python program to verify the email address.  Here is
what I am going to do:

Establish the connection to the <smtp_server>t:25
If I get code 220
   send command HELO:<domain>
If I get code 250
  send command MAIL FROM:<sender address>
If I get code 250
  send command RCPT TO:<recipient address>
If I get code 550
   the recipient address does not exist
else
   the recipient address exists


In fact, I could send VRFY:<recipient address> to shorten the code, but I
notice so many SMTP server does not allow VRF command.  I also notice the
many SMTP server denies the RCPT TO command too.  If you have down something
like this, please tell how did you do it.

Thanks in advance!

Billy Ng




From plugin at airtel.net  Mon Mar  4 10:23:28 2002
From: plugin at airtel.net (VUG)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:23:28 +0100
Subject: C++, Python & Threads
References: <1015181073.276455@seux119> <m3elj1weyv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1015255451.705549@seux119>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> escribi? en el mensaje
news:m3elj1weyv.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "VUG" <plugin at airtel.net> writes:
>
> > When I launch python console and I create a thread I get a NUMBER
but......
> > This number doesn't the same as the one I get by the function
> > thread.get_ident(). What's wrong in the code?
>
> PyThread_get_thread_ident, having no parameters, always returns the
> thread id of the calling thread. If you want the thread id of the new
> thread, you need to invoke PyThread_get_thread_ident inside of the new
> thread.
>
> BTW, in Python 2.2, start_new_thread does return the thread id of the
> new thread.
>
> HTH,
> Martin
>

Ok. Thanks. I've taking a look at Python 2.2 and it works in the way I need.
But I still having problems. I've embedded Python in my application so I
need to modify Python source. I can't find this source in the Python's Home
page. Isnt't the source code for Python 2.2 available? If not, How can I
modify python 1.6.1 source in order to work the way I need?

Thank a lot
--VUG




From herrn at gmx.net  Tue Mar 19 08:26:36 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:26:36 +0100
Subject: inheriting from curses window-objects
Message-ID: <20020319132636.GA10465@lurkabove.darkstar>

Hi,

i would like to create window-objects that are derived from the standard
curses windows (like window or pad). But I don't see any way to achieve
this.
Is this possible? Or would I have to write a "new curses library" to get
real objects for window, one can inherit from?

Bye
Marco
-- 
If you cannot convince them, confuse them.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar  4 03:03:19 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:03:19 -0500
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-E81CC6.17470002032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEAKOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David Eppstein]
> Here's another way of looking at the same question.
> An iterable object has a next() function, that's what it means to be
> iterable.

An iterable object A is one that iter(A) doesn't barf on <wink>.  For
example, lists are iterable objects but don't have a .next() method.  It's
an iterat*or* that needs a next() method; an iter*able* object is one that
iter() knows how to get an iterator for.

>>> [].next
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'next'
>>> iter([]).next
<method-wrapper object at 0x0078D660>
>>>

> If numbers are iterable, we can call number.next(), right?

It's such a pretty point I hate to spoil it, but no.  If numbers are
iterable, then we can call iter(number).next().

> So what should 5.next() be?

SyntaxError as given, AttributeError if "(5).next()" instead, and by the
time we get to the "iter(5).next()" that should actually do something
besides blow up, the presence of iter() spoils the point.

> Surely anyone familiar with the Peano axioms would say 6, not 0!

If ints did have a .next() method, then I expect most people would expect 6
even if Peano had said succ(i) == -42 <wink>.




From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 28 18:14:50 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:14:50 -0800
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a808fj$ooe50$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

John Machin
> Python *could* be made like that with the explict dict() constructor
> ... something like:
> 
> freq = dict(default=0)
> ...
> freq[word] += 1

Or you could subclass with something like:

>>> class ddict(dict):
...     def __getitem__(self, ky):
...             return self.setdefault(ky, self.default)
...     def __init__(self, default=None):
...             self.default = default
...
>>> d = ddict(0)
>>> d['a']+=1
>>> d['a']
1

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Tue Mar 19 11:30:19 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:30:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
In-Reply-To: <15510.53493.198841.313608@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203191117090.11793-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

   ...
>     sinh
>     sqrt
>     tan
>     tanh
>     exceptions
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "Lib/test/test_math.py", line 195, in ?
>         test_exceptions()
>       File "Lib/test/test_math.py", line 192, in test_exceptions
>         raise TestFailed("sqrt(-1) didn't raise ValueError")
>     test_support.TestFailed: sqrt(-1) didn't raise ValueError
>

I got the same on my osx build.
Specifically: math.sqrt( -1 ) returns NaN.


When I do:
	import fpectl
	fpectl.turnon_sigfpe()
I get:
	'Operation not implemented'


Are those two connected?


-- Steve Majewski





From ron at ire.org  Fri Mar  1 11:50:42 2002
From: ron at ire.org (ron nixon)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 08:50:42 -0800
Subject: Does python have a  function  like similar_text  in PHP
Message-ID: <61ff32e3.0203010850.3aedc22f@posting.google.com>

List:

Does anyone know if Python has a function like similar_text in PHP. It
compares two strings and returns a percentage for the match. Anyone
know of anything like this in Python and would be willing to send
along an example?

Ron


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 19:46:39 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:46:39 +0000
Subject: win32 extension: rare PythonService problem
References: <rrui8.2150$P4.203427@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns91CD6455D4DCCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214> <a6gkop$r0i$0@216.39.172.122> <a6grvo$h4o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <clsv8ukee2njijfd0p5218uht1q0t9gvfh@4ax.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On 10 Mar 2002 21:55:37 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>[...]
>>But I'd check the event logs (run "%SystemRoot%"\system32\eventvwr.exe) first
>
>Oops, misplaced quote, that won't work verbatim. Try
>
>    "%SystemRoot%\system32\eventvwr.exe"
>

Actually, either quoting approach works fine with NT/W2K.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From bhat at cs.mu.oz.au  Mon Mar 18 17:22:46 2002
From: bhat at cs.mu.oz.au (Tim Bell)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:22:46 -0800
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <mailman.1015360930.26693.python-list@python.org> <88bc63c6.0203071841.1867a977@posting.google.com> <mt2h8us6sl06q3v47jcrkq5lvdcqn7r7ta@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <22732848.0203181422.186670b@posting.google.com>

Fernando Rodr?uez <frr at ThouShallNotSpam.EasyJob.NET> wrote in message news:<mt2h8us6sl06q3v47jcrkq5lvdcqn7r7ta at 4ax.com>...
> On 7 Mar 2002 18:41:45 -0800, writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell) wrote:
> 
> >is because of all the other media that goes on the CD. Our current
> >search engine is a piece of junk, but works in the C++ environment of
> >our current application, which is only for Windows. I am considering

> Whatever you use, you will probably have to write the Python interface. 
> If I was in your situation I  would write a Python interface to the mg system
> that someone already recommended to you...

MG has already been adapted for use on multimedia CD ROMS as the Greenstone
Digital Library software <http://www.greenstone.org/>.  Most of the work was
done at the University of Waikato in Hamilton, NZ, and I'm sure it would be
worth your while investigating their approach.  (They don't use Python
anywhere, to my knowledge.)

While the Greenstone system is cross-platform (including even Windows 3.1),
there is considerable effort required in getting it to work on each platform.
Clearly a language such as Python (coupled with a suitable GUI toolkit) would
be very useful here.

Also, if you start getting into implementing a new text indexing and
compression system, or even just building a Python API for MG, I strongly
recommend you read Managing Gigabytes, 2nd Edition, by Witten, Moffat and
Bell; Morgan Kaufmann, 1999.  (My name is similar to the third author's,
but we're different people.)  There's more info about the book here:
<http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/mg/>.  Much of the work they describe has been
implemented in the MG system.

Tim.
-- 
Tim Bell - bhat at cs.mu.oz.au - Dept of Comp Sci & SE - Uni of Melbourne, Aust.


From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 13 05:20:57 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:20:57 GMT
Subject: structseq and keywords?
References: <slrna8u819.130.quinn@vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <ulmcwsr38.fsf@python.net>

quinn at vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) writes:

> Is structseq supposed to take keyword args?  From the source I assume it was
> meant to, but they're unused.

Well, in 2.2 it takes one keyword argument -- "sequence".  In 2.2.1
and 2.3 it will take another one -- "dict".  This is the result of
some hacking I did a week or so ago related to pickling the buggers.

> I suppose they'd interact poorly with sequence args, but I'd expect
> them to be mutually exclusive:
> 
> ss(attr=bar) #-> attr set to bar, rest set to None
> ss(a, b, c) #-> initialize with (a, b, c)

You'd have to write that last

ss((a,b,c))

...

> It also seems odd that structseq expects a single sequence rather than a
> variable number of args.

... but it seems you already know this.

In the current implementation, you're not really expected to create
structseq objects.  Why would you?

> I've been meaning to give python access to structseqs, since I think
> it would be useful for python as well as C code.

Hmm.  I think they're a bit specialized for that.  You could probably
whip up something nearly equivalent...

class StructSeq(object):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
        slots = self.__class__.__slots__[:]
        for name, arg in zip(slots, args):
            setattr(self, name, arg)
            slots.remove(name)
        for key in kw:
            if key not in slots:
                raise ValueError
            setattr(self, key, kw[key])
            slots.remove(key)
        for name in slots:
            setattr(self, name, None)
    def __getitem__(self, i):
        return getattr(self, self.__class__.__slots__[i])

class stat_result(StructSeq):
    __slots__ = ['st_size', 'st_dev', 'st_atime']

>>> sr = stat_result(2, st_atime=3)
>>> sr.st_size
2
>>> sr[1]
>>> sr = stat_result(2, st_size=3)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 9, in __init__
ValueError
>>> tuple(sr)
(2, None, 3)
>>>

Doesn't do everything structseqs do, but that's mostly a matter of
typing.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Windows installation day one.  Getting rid of the old windows 
  was easy - they fell apart quite happily, and certainly wont 
  be re-installable anywhere else.   -- http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/
                                       (not *that* sort of windows...)


From timo at alum.mit.edu  Sat Mar 16 00:35:12 2002
From: timo at alum.mit.edu (Timothy O'Malley)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:35:12 -0500
Subject: timeoutsocket.py  -- Version 1.23
Message-ID: <timo-21CF62.00351216032002@corp.supernews.com>

hola.

I've updated the timeoutsocket module with the following two
fixes:
  1.  The recv() method did not work with recv(0) when the
      socket was closed.  This was causing problems with
      httplib in 2.2.
      There was a condition test that used > when it
      should have used >= instead.
  2.  The readlines() method should no longer potentially
      lose data when a Timeout exception is thrown.


As usual:

http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py


Happy python-ing!


TimO


From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Mar 26 10:22:03 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:22:03 +0100
Subject: Optimizations (was Re: reduce vs. for loop)
References: <mailman.1017129288.16453.python-list@python.org> <a7q2nf$31b$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <just-625A92.16220326032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <a7q2nf$31b$1 at panix1.panix.com>, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) 
wrote:

> >Just out curiosity, 
> >why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
> >
> >def fact1(n):
> >    return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
> >
> >def fact2(n):
> >    result = n * 1L
> >    for i in range(1 , n):
> >        result *= i
> >    return result
> 
> Try this:
> 
> def fact3(n):
>     mul = operator.mul
>     return reduce(mul, range(1L, n+1) )

operator.mul will be evaluated only once in even in fact1, so this 
shouldn't make any difference.

Just


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 15:44:46 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:44:46 -0800
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
Message-ID: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org>

[reference link, for those just now joining this discussion:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-March/093191.html
]

OK, I got the latest email module from the CVS. I installed it. I ran the
tests for the module. Everything tested out fine.

I now eagerly get out my code from last night, that was causing the 
'int' has no attribute .lower
error, and run it, hoping for different results.

No good. Same results. :(

  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Message.py", line 285,
in get
    name = name.lower()
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'



Here is all the data and code necessary for you to run this test, also:

### main program file 
### parsertest.py

from cStringIO import StringIO
from SmartParser import SmartParser
import sys, traceback

try:
    f = open('problem_multipart_virus.txt', 'r')
    fp = StringIO(f.read())
    parserobj = SmartParser()
    msg = parserobj.parse(fp)
    count = 0
    print "msg.get_params() = ", msg.get_params()
    if msg.preamble:
        print "preamble = ", preamble
    if msg.epilogue:
        print "epilogue = ", epilogue
    print "payload = ", msg.get_payload()
    print "now walking parts:"
    count = 0
    for part in msg.walk():
        print "part ", count, " = ", part
        count += 1
except:
    exc, val, tb = sys.exc_info()
    f = open('err.txt', 'w')
    traceback.print_exception(exc, val, tb, file=sys.stdout)




### class file
### SmartParser.py

from email.Parser import Parser
import email

print "starting init of SmartParser"
print "email.__version__ = ", email.__version__

class SmartParser(Parser):
    def _parsebody(self, container, fp):
        print "\n*** beginning SmartParser._parsebody() ***"
        boundary = container.get_boundary()
        print "type = ", container.get_type()
        isdigest = (container.get_type() == 'multipart/digest')
        if container.is_multipart():
            print "multipart"
        if boundary:
            preamble = epilogue = None
            separator = '--' + boundary
            payload = fp.read()
            start = payload.find(separator)
            if start < 0:
                container.add_payload(fp.getvalue())
            if start > 0:
                preamble = payload[0:start]
            start += len(separator) + 1 + isdigest
            terminator = payload.find('\n' + separator + '--', start)
            if terminator < 0:
                terminator = len(payload)
            if terminator + len(separator) + 3 < len(payload):
                epilogue = payload[terminator + len(separator) + 3:]
            if isdigest:
                separator += '\n\n'
            else:
                separator += '\n'
            parts = payload[start:terminator].split('\n' + separator)
            print "parts = ", str(parts)
            for part in parts:
                msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
                container.preamble = preamble
                container.epilogue = epilogue
                container.add_payload(msgobj)
            print "*** end SmartParser._parsebody ***\n"



### data file
### problem_multipart_virus.txt

Received: from aol.com (adsl-63393.turboline.skynet.be [217.136.119.161])
	by excalibur.skynet.be (8.11.6/8.11.6/Skynet-OUT-2.16) with SMTP id
fBJ8Iu829963
	for <webmaster at leonbergerdatabase.com>; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:18:56 +0100
(MET)
	(envelope-from <removed at infonie.be>)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:18:56 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <200112190818.fBJ8Iu829963 at excalibur.skynet.be>
From: "John Doe" <_removed at infonie.be>
To: webmaster at leonbergerdatabase.com
Subject: Re:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related;
	 type="multipart/alternative";
	 boundary="====_ABC1234567890DEF_===="
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Unsent: 1

--====_ABC1234567890DEF_====
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	 boundary="====_ABC0987654321DEF_===="

--====_ABC0987654321DEF_====
Content-Type: text/html;
 	 charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<iframe src=3Dcid:EA4DMGBP9p height=3D0 width=3D0>
</iframe></BODY></HTML>
--====_ABC0987654321DEF_====--

--====_ABC1234567890DEF_====
Content-Type: audio/x-wav;
	 name="stuff.MP3.pif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-ID: <EA4DMGBP9p>

TVqQAAMAAAAEAAAA//8AALgAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAA8AAAAA4fug4AtAnNIbgBTM0hVGhpcyBwcm9ncmFtIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBydW4gaW4gRE9TIG1v
ZGUuDQ0KJAAAAAAAAAAoxs1SbKejAWynowFsp6MBF7uvAWinowHvu60BbqejAYS4qQF2p6MBhLin
WHAA/kVwAPw2cAD+KXAA+BxwAPz2cAD+GQAAAAAAAP4BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD8QgAAAAAAAAAA
/l/9D/3yCg==

--====_ABC1234567890DEF_====




### results file
### output.txt

starting init of SmartParser
email.__version__ =  1.2

*** beginning SmartParser._parsebody() ***
type =  multipart/related
parts =  ['Content-Type: multipart/alternative;\n\t
boundary="====_ABC0987654321DEF_===="\n\n--====_ABC0987654321DEF_====\nContent-Type:
text/html;\n \t charset="iso-8859-1"\nContent-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable\n\n\n<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>\n<iframe
src=3Dcid:EA4DMGBP9p height=3D0
width=3D0>\n</iframe></BODY></HTML>\n--====_ABC0987654321DEF_====--\n',
'Content-Type: audio/x-wav;\n\t
name="stuff.MP3.pif"\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: base64\nContent-ID:
<EA4DMGBP9p>\n\nTVqQAAMAAAAEAAAA//8AALgAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA\nAAAA8AAAAA4fug4AtAnNIbgBTM0hVGhpcyBwcm9ncmFtIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBydW4gaW4gRE9TIG1v\nZGUuDQ0KJAAAAAAAAAAoxs1SbKejAWynowFsp6MBF7uvAWinowHvu60BbqejAYS4qQF2p6MBhLin\nWHAA/kVwAPw2cAD+KXAA+BxwAPz2cAD+GQAAAAAAAP4BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD8QgAAAAAAAAAA\n/l/9D/3yCg==\n',
'\n']

*** beginning SmartParser._parsebody() ***
type =  multipart/alternative
parts =  ['Content-Type: text/html;\n \t
charset="iso-8859-1"\nContent-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable\n\n\n<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>\n<iframe
src=3Dcid:EA4DMGBP9p height=3D0 width=3D0>\n</iframe></BODY></HTML>']

*** beginning SmartParser._parsebody() ***
type =  text/html
*** end SmartParser._parsebody ***


*** beginning SmartParser._parsebody() ***
type =  audio/x-wav

*** beginning SmartParser._parsebody() ***
type =  None
*** end SmartParser._parsebody ***

msg.get_params() =  [('multipart/related', ''), ('type',
'multipart/alternative'), ('boundary', '====_ABC1234567890DEF_====')]
payload =  [<email.Message.Message instance at 0x00805430>,
<email.Message.Message instance at 0x00805300>, <email.Message.Message
instance at 0x008069C0>]
now walking parts:
part  0  =  Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "parsertest.py", line 20, in ?
    print "part ", count, " = ", part
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Message.py", line 73, in
__str__
    return self.as_string(unixfrom=1)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Message.py", line 83, in
as_string
    g(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 79,
in __call__
    self._write(msg)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 100,
in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 130,
in _dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 246,
in _handle_multipart
    g(part, unixfrom=0)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 79,
in __call__
    self._write(msg)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 100,
in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 130,
in _dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Generator.py", line 243,
in _handle_multipart
    for part in msg.get_payload():
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Message.py", line 222,
in __getitem__
    return self.get(name)
  File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Message.py", line 285,
in get
    name = name.lower()
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'


Notice that if I change the following lines in the parsetest.py file

    count = 0
    for part in msg.walk():
        print "part ", count, " = ", part
        count += 1

to

    count = 0
    for part in msg.walk():
        print "count = ", count
        count += 1


That the code then runs fine without generating an error. So, I am able to
parse the message into parts, I am able to walk the parts. I am only
getting an error when I try to print a string representation of the part.

   :(


What should I try next ????


--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From junkster at rochester.rr.com  Sun Mar 17 19:16:00 2002
From: junkster at rochester.rr.com (Benjamin Schollnick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:16:00 -0500
Subject: Eliminate Spam Now... >g< Python w/DNS/&POP3
In-Reply-To: <20020317144859.B18963@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA9BF0.5F61%junkster@rochester.rr.com>

on 3/17/02 5:48 PM, Neil Schemenauer at nas at python.ca wrote:

> You don't need DNSlib.  socket.gethostbyname() works fine.  Check out my
> spamhunter script? for example code.
> 
> Neil 
> 
> ? http://arctrix.com/nas/python/spamhunter.py

Neil,

    Your script is quite helpful, but I don't follow your suggestion about
not needing DNSlib.

    gethostbyname would resolve to the IP address of the spammer, but it
doesn't do any checking against the blacklists....The only exception that I
can think of would be if you were using the blacklist organizations DNS
servers as your primary DNS server???

                - Benjamin




From john at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 17:10:07 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:10:07 GMT
Subject: question on slices
Message-ID: <rj7v9ug37qguulsuocutqr5mfdh9p4c8ee@4ax.com>

I am sorta new to programming, i have had an intro to programming
using C++ and thats it.  Other than that i have kinda read a few
things but now i am into Python.....blah blah blah.....
The issue that i have a problem with is slices.  for instance let me
show you a snippet:

>>> numlist=[0, 1, 2, 3]
>>> numlist[1]
1
>>> numlist[2]
2
>>> numlist[1:2]
[1]

This last one doesnt make since to me since i am asking for a range
from 1-2.  Why in the world does it give me 1 when i am asking for 1-2
which would logically be:

>>> numlist[1:2]
[1, 2]

but it's not. it doesnt make since.  Just seems strange when i just
was in a C++ class and it would do the logical thing.

Rob


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 14:35:27 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 20:35:27 +0100
Subject: os.fchown, avoiding a race condition
References: <a7s2kr$ds0$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <a7t5a5$12ud$2@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <m3lmcdolc0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) writes:

> 	If would be cool if os.chown was overloaded to take
> 	*either* a patch *or* a file descriptor (from 
                   ^^^^^file?
> 	file_instance.fileno()) as its first argument.

There are already a number of f* functions exposed in posixmodule.c
(fstat, ftruncate, fsync, fdatasync, fstatvfs, fpathconf); a patch
adding fchown would certainly be accepted. 

If you want polymorphism, you need to come up with a way of doing it
uniformly; that would require a PEP, documentation changes, and
testsuite additions (fchown would also require documentation changes).

Regards,
Martin


From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 20 12:07:40 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:07:40 +0000
Subject: Popular style document?
In-Reply-To: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <20020320170740.GH18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 01:52:35PM +0000, Greg Weeks wrote:

> Is there a popular style document for Python?  I realize that there isn't a
> whole lot of scope for such a thing, but I wondered because of certain
> particular issues that came to mind.

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0008.html
    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0257.html

> 1.  I use "me" instead of "self" in method definitions.  I mention this not
> to ask what people think -- I have an unpleasant suspicion -- but because
> I'll be using "me" below.

Bad boy.  :-)

> 2.  How should methods call other methods?  Suppose that show_and_tell()
> simply calls show() and then tell().  Let the class be, say, "Demo".  Then
> there are two choices:
> 
>     def show_and_tell(me):
> 	me.show()
> 	me.tell()

Correct and moral.  :-)

>     def show_and_tell(me):
> 	Demo.show(me)
> 	Demo.tell(me)

Pointless except when Demo is a subclass, AFAIK.  If anyone knows
better, I'd love to hear about it and increase my knowledge.  :-)

> These have different semantics for subclasses, but I would hate to choose
> based on that.  I simply use the first alternative.  But only the second
> alternative was given in "Python Essential Reference" (by David Beazley).
> So I wonder.

Gosh.  That really surprises me.  Are you sure the book wasn't talking
about subclasses at that point?

> 3.  Personally, I think that code is more readable (at least sometimes)
> when global variables are "declared".  But how?  If within a comment, what
> form does the comment take?  Unable to answer that question, I found myself
> using a "global" statement, which is semantically a no-op and only
> acceptable if the reader knows what the heck it is doing there.

The "global" statement certainly isn't a no-op, and it's definitely
not just for readability - it can totally change your program's logic!

Check out the attached global.py for a quick demo of how I tend to use
it.  This isn't the full story but should hopefully convince you it's
not a no-op.

For completeness, here's the output I get when I run global.py:

[gimbo at andy python]$ ./global.py 
Foo: 0
Foo: 1
Foo: 1
vikings inside beans(): 3
vikings outside beans(): 3
vikings outside beans(): 6
vikings inside beans(): 3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./global.py", line 55, in ?
    print dinsdale
NameError: global name 'dinsdale' is not defined

Hope this helps,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.
-------------- next part --------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

# I always declare globals at the top, out of force of habit.  But see
# the beans() function, below.

foo = 0

def spam():
    # We use a global declaration to tell spam() that when we say foo,
    # we mean the one defined above.
    global foo
    foo = 1

def eggs():
    # Here, foo is local to eggs(), and the foo defined above is
    # untouched.  So calling eggs() makes no change.
    foo = 2

def beans():
    # Globals can be declared anywhere in a module
    global vikings
    vikings = 3
    print "vikings inside beans(): %d" % (vikings,)

def gumby():
    # If this doesn't get called, referencing dinsdale anywhere else
    # will result in a NameError
    global dinsdale
    dinsdale = 4
    print "Dinsdale in vikings: %d" % (dinsdale,)

# See how foo changes over these calls...

print "Foo: %d" % (foo,)
spam()
print "Foo: %d" % (foo,)
eggs()
print "Foo: %d" % (foo,)

# Now we demonstrate that a global can be defined anywhere.

beans()
print "vikings outside beans(): %d" % (vikings,)

# However, if we modify it here without first declaring global in
# thise scope, we're creating a completely different variable which
# just happens to have the same name, so when we call beans() again,
# it won't have changed since last time.

vikings = 6
print "vikings outside beans(): %d" % (vikings,)
beans()

# Finally, we try to access dinsdale, which fails because gumby()
# hasn't been called yet.

print dinsdale

From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 24 18:53:41 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:53:41 -0500
Subject: 2.2 open
In-Reply-To: <m38z8hk4ci.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEFIOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Martin v. Loewis]
> Correction: open is file. Just try it
>
> >>> open is file
> 1
>
> So open is the type of file objects.

Na, file is the type of file objects:

>>> type(sys.stdout)
<type 'file'>
>>> type(sys.stdout).__name__
'file'

"open" was made identical to "file" just so open(filename) would continue to
work as before.  Once you get used to it, it's more natural to say
file(filename) in 2.2 (for much the same reason it's long been more natural
to say int("42") than string.atoi("42")).




From joonas at olen.to  Sun Mar 10 17:34:39 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:34:39 +0200
Subject: import gadfly causes 500 Server Error -- anyone know how to fix?
References: <3C8AFB43.275714BB@erols.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BDF7F.5F386023@olen.to>

Jerry Gitomer wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have an application I am porting from Python with Tkinter to
> Python on the Web.
> I built my first set of scripts by copying something that worked
> and then modifying
> one idea at a time.  Everything was fine until I tried to add a
> query into a gadfly database.
> 
> I discovered that adding the "import gadfly" statement results
> in:
> 
> 500 Server Error
> 
> The server encountered an internal error and could not complete
> your request.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on why and how to fix?

Insert these lines just above the line where you import gadfly. It
causes the traceback to be printed to browser. Or if you are using
Python 2.2, you should use cgitb module.

import sys
sys.stderr = sys.stdout
print "Content-type: text/plain"
print


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 18:00:02 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:00:02 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Sl6p8.121147$7b.11125497@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98 at engcorp.com...
> Jon Cosby wrote:

> > lword = len(firstword)

You missed that lword *is* the length of firstword, not firstword
itself, making

> That finds the line matching lword and appends it to words, I think,
> which is another way of saying that every instance of lword in the
> dict.txt file will be appended to the words list.  Strange...

and

> For every character in lword, append an empty list to the rows
> and columns?  If that's what you want, you need range(len(lword))

and

> Same problem as above... use len() with range().

invalid.

I am still looking for what is wrong.

Terry J. Reedy





From andreas at mtg.co.at  Tue Mar 12 13:41:45 2002
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:41:45 +0100
Subject: File Attributes conversion
In-Reply-To: <2030665d.0203080406.5b1b008b@posting.google.com>
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com>
	<4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com>
	<2030665d.0203070126.55addc33@posting.google.com>
	<3C87A28B.549D9B1C@noaa.gov>
	<2030665d.0203080406.5b1b008b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020312194145.0c968c64.andreas@mtg.co.at>

On 8 Mar 2002 04:06:42 -0800
sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett) wrote:

> How would you remove trailing 0's?
> e.g.
> Instead of 12.20kb it would be 12.2kb
> 23kb instead of 23.00 etc
>>> "%f" % 2.0
'2.000000'
>>> "%.0f" % 2.0
'2'

Andreas



From ark at research.att.com  Sun Mar 31 00:46:12 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:46:12 GMT
Subject: Subclass sadness (was Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type)
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017504362.25937.python-list@python.org> <slrnaacavs.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a85od6$9i$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <yu99hemx1e8r.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Aahz> Instead of circle/ellipse, it's slightly easier to talk about
Aahz> square/rectangle.  In terms of standard geometry, a square is a
Aahz> subset of rectangles, such that height and width are identical.
Aahz> But in OO terms, it's a bit more complicated to inherit square
Aahz> from rectangle, because square has only side-length attribute
Aahz> where rectangle has two (height and width).  So to create a
Aahz> class square that inherits from rectangle, you either have to
Aahz> write special code that ties height and width together or you
Aahz> have to delete at least one of the attributes (in which case any
Aahz> code expecting to work with rectangle fails).

Right you are.

The other way around -- inheriting rectangle from square -- would
seem to make more sense because a rectangle has all the information
that a square does, and then some.  But that doesn't really work either,
because then you can no longer assume that every kind of square is
really a square.  After all, it might be a rectangle.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From brueckd at tbye.com  Tue Mar 12 12:39:02 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:39:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: programming h----ng
In-Reply-To: <3AAC52DF.420FB510@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203120929430.16621-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

> canyou help please
> please please please please please

Ah yes, the age-old topic of programming humming. A lot of times I'll
listen to the same collection of music for a given project, and so I end
up humming those same tunes all day long. What is really weird is how
quickly my mind gets back into that particular project when I start
humming (or just hear) that same bit of music again.

As far as helping you, I'd really recommend that you vary quite
frequently your tune selection (there's some good Internet radio stations
if your mp3 collection isn't large enought). There's nothing worse than
ruining a great CD because hearing it reminds you of some awful project
you worked on. U2's Achtung Baby will forever remind me of a really buggy
HTTP client. :(

HTH,
Dave

P.S. I suddenly realized that your subject line may have been referring to
programming honking. If so, there are some great sound libraries out there
- do a quick Google search.




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Mar 19 18:12:08 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 18:12:08 -0500
Subject: os.popen4 and exit codes
References: <3C966B18.BB1E81BD@bgb.cc> <a75sr3$pea$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <usn6w6tkn.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

> On UNIX, popen3 is implemented in Python, out of fork and pipe functions,
> and unlike popen it returns 100% stock, common file objects.
> 
> To get exit status, you have to use the Popen3 class explicitly, so you
> can call its wait() function.

Right - the Windows behavior is sort of a kludge (albeit a convenient
one) because of the lack of an equivalent capability in terms of how
the child process is controlled.  Earlier implementations (the
os.popen# functions originated as a contribution to the win32all
package) lost the exit code under Windows entirely :-)

Unfortunately, it makes handling this platform-dependent, but at least
you can get the exit codes in general.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Fri Mar  8 10:31:12 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:31:12 +0100
Subject: returning a picture
In-Reply-To: <a6aefe$sf6$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
References: <a6aefe$sf6$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <20020308153112.GB2591@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 08/03/02 ? 14:32, Peter Posselt Vestergaard ?crivit:
> Hi
> I would like to be able to enter an URL to a python script in the src field
> of an img tag in html. The script is then supposed to return a picture which
> will be shown in the html-page.
> I am loading and editing the picture the Python Image Library (PIL) but how
> should I return/print it to do what I want?
 
In the CGI script that will return the image, just set the appropriate
content type and then write the image data, something like (for a jpeg
image):

print "Content-type: image/jpeg\n\n"
sys.stdout.write(imagedata)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 10.6 ?C      Wind: 2.6 m/s



From grumble at lycos.com  Mon Mar 11 08:04:51 2002
From: grumble at lycos.com (jcm)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 13:04:51 GMT
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com> <29e28c51.0203102042.76ac31b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6ia1j$i8r$1@compaq-bsd.mathworks.com>

A better name might be rem, as this produces the remainder of x/y.
Python returns what most would call the modulus.

Cimarron Taylor <cimarron+google at taylors.org> wrote:
>> Anybody have any idea why this is?
>> Erik

> I encountered this as well in an application which needed to
> verify the results of a C program.  Python seems to be counting
> "down" from y if x<0.  I simply compensated for this with
> the following function:  

>         def mod(x,y):
>             m = x%y
>             if m==0 or x>0: return m
>             return m-y

> Another thing to watch out for when comparing results from Python and
> C include is overflow/underflow behavior of the math operations.

> Cim


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Sat Mar 30 23:00:53 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:00:53 -0800
Subject: [ANN] PYNOSPAM 0.1 (and some Embedded-Python-Questions)
References: <3ca4b9e8.10558859@news.t-online.de> <slrnaach4v.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA689F5.5010609@bigfoot.de>

phil hunt wrote:
 > at some point I want herbivore to run on Windows
> email clients).

I still didn't check out herbivore, but what about writing an smtp proxy 
for that? smtpd in the standard Python library should be a good starting 
point.

Gerhard




From shredwheat at attbi.com  Wed Mar 20 12:11:04 2002
From: shredwheat at attbi.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:11:04 GMT
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C985420.6020401@attbi.com>

Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> I am debugging a large system written in Python with modules spread
> over 4 directories. I'm using PythonWin under Win2K to set-up the
> environment and run the code.

i'd also recommend running "pychecker" on your code. instead of 
interactively looking for errors, it always shows me the list of errors 
right up front. (of course this won't really notice all your logic 
errors) :]  http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/



From jamarijr at my-deja.com  Fri Mar 29 10:44:46 2002
From: jamarijr at my-deja.com (Arinté)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:44:46 -0500
Subject: Released product
Message-ID: <3ca48b83_2@news3.prserv.net>

Don't know how late I am, but Freedom Force a game that was released this
week uses python...

Hooray




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Mar 28 07:34:15 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:34:15 +0300
Subject: Very small zlib/svg problem
In-Reply-To: <15522.19213.655102.927935@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>; from skip@pobox.com on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 04:43:25PM -0600
References: <a7te9u$kah$1@news.hccnet.nl> <15522.19213.655102.927935@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020328153415.D11101@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 04:43:25PM -0600, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "w")
                     ^^ this suggests to use binary modes for binary files:
      f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "wb")
                                      !

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From opengeometry at NOSPAM.yahoo.ca  Tue Mar 12 11:58:24 2002
From: opengeometry at NOSPAM.yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 16:58:24 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6lc34$f8kme$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Martin Kaufmann <martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello Newsgroup
> 
> I'm trying to write a program to calculate diffraction patterns for
> electron diffraction on clusters (100-10'000 atoms). So far I used
> Python only for CGI programming and system tools (on a rather low
> level...). Therefore I don't know whether it's reasonable to program
> such a project in Python (I really like the language). Presently my
> man concern is speed as the main function of the program is a nested
> loop, the inner over several 1000 bins of a histogram and the outer
> over several 1000 values of scattering factors. In the end I should be
> able to simulate diffraction patterns and compare them to the
> experimental data (i.e. run this function several times).
> 
> Now my questions: Would it be best to
> 
> (a) write the whole program in C/C++ (I know only the basics of C but
> it would be a good "excuse" to learn it...)?
> (b) write the main program in Python but the heavy calculations in C
> (I played today with scipy.weave -- the speed is much better but I
> didn't really understand what I was doing...)?
> (c) program it in Python and don't care about speed (or buy a new
> workstation...)?

First, get the math right.  Then, get the algorithm right; here, Python
helps.  If you have to solve your own integral, then all bets are off.
:-)  If you can use FFT approximation or higher math functions (ie.
Fresnel) approximation, then Python is good choice.  But, this depends
on the math being right, so we're back in circle.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPU cluster, NAS, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Tin


From vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de  Wed Mar 20 14:05:18 2002
From: vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de (Viatcheslav Kulikov RWTH Aachen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:05:18 +0100
Subject: Python/CORBA
Message-ID: <3C98DD6E.EB227047@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>

        Hello!

Can anyone probably answer a question why Python 2.1 sends me an
exception message "INITIALIZE: Minor: 0, Completed: COMPLETED_NO." while
I am trying to initialize omniORB CORBA interface with:

from omniORB import CORBA
orb = CORBA.ORB_init(sys.argv, CORBA.ORB_ID)

The registry key (ORBInitRef) is set (properly) to:
"NameService=corbaname::sallust.lfpt.rwth-aachen.de:5100"

Independently from that, when I use a set ORBInitialHost/ORBInitialPort,
the message is still the same.

Version of omniORB - 3.0.4.

Meanwhile at the other computer where Python 2.0 and omniORB 3.0.2. are
installed, everything works. But is it possible that the higher version
does not support something the lower version does? I doubt.

Please give hints where to search the reason for such an error. Will be
grateful.



From boud at valdyas.org  Thu Mar  7 10:24:38 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:24:38 -0100
Subject: Detect Version of PyQT Bindings?
References: <3C86A5F1.49E69E0E@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <3c876afa$0$24833$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>

Ingo Linkweiler wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> does anybody know how I can detect the version of the python QT
> bindings? (Not the version of QT itself)
> I want to use qt canvas. Version 3.0 requires an extra:
> from qtcanvas import *
> but with older versions this was included with "from qt import *"
> 
> OK, I can do it this way:
> 
> try
>     from qtcanvas import *
> except:
>     pass
> 
> any better ideas?
> 

I think that's it, basically -- because the qt.py doesn't include
a version number itself. Of course, even if Phil were to add one,
it wouldn't help all that much, since previous versions wouldn't
have it, so you'd have to check anyway for the existence of 
something.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Mar 20 05:12:51 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:12:51 +0300
Subject: Can't print national characters in IDLE with Python 2.2.1c1
In-Reply-To: <3C97E9DF.3070300@thinkware.se>; from magnus@thinkware.se on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:46:07AM +0100
References: <3C97E9DF.3070300@thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <20020320131251.J14060@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:46:07AM +0100, Magnus Lyck? wrote:
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

   http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.102.htp

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 19 13:58:25 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:58:25 GMT
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
References: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <u4rjc4bzw.fsf@python.net>

ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy) writes:

> With Python-2.2.1c1, I find `make test' fails on my old version of
> Linux/x86 and it fails to build on an also old version of AIX.  

How old?

> Should I go straight to SourceForge and fill in bug forms or do
> people tend to discuss the problems here first?

Please do.  Assign the bugs to me.  Give OS/architecture/etc info,
please.

> I can see the problem with the AIX build.  Linux SIGSEGVs in
> test_calendar on a call to strftime.

More detail needed.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 The rapid establishment of social ties, even of a fleeting nature,
 advance not only that goal but its standing in the uberconscious
 mesh of communal psychic, subjective, and algorithmic interbeing.
 But I fear I'm restating the obvious.  -- Will Ware, comp.lang.python


From tatebll at aol.com  Wed Mar 20 11:33:29 2002
From: tatebll at aol.com (Bill Tate)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 08:33:29 -0800
Subject: [pygresql] Please suggest
References: <20020319181506.8E7E757C6@smaug.vex.net> <20020319231043.58646.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1016582792.31989.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cb4ba455.0203200833.397a49d1@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016582792.31989.python-list at python.org>...
> Le 19/03/02 ? 15:10, Suraj Peri ?crivit:
> > Dear Group, 
> >  Please excuse me if my question is not appropriate
> > for this group. We are planning to make a public
> > object oriented database for genes and proteins (
> > biological databases are generally huge and has lots
> > of inter-relationships). 
> > While planning this, my friend is very much particular
> > about using Zope. 
> > Our plan is using PostgreSQL-PHP tiers. 
> > there will be many relationships between our objects.
> > Now the question is is Zope more sophisticated in
> > dealing with objects than PostgreSQL? if so is this
> > sophistication is in dealing with the complexity of
> > relationships between objects or something else?
> > 
> > Please suggest is ZOPE a good and better choice that
> > PostgreSQL-PHP or PostgreSQL-JDBC-Java client
> > interface. 
> 
> Well, PHP, ZOPE and Java servlets are only technologies for the
> frontend. It doesn't matter much which one you choose - either one will
> work. But in IMO Python and Java better languages than PHP. And,
> compared to Java, Python is far easier to develop with. Btw. I've also
> seen some open-source computational biology libraries for Python
> mentioned on the comp.lang.python newsgroup.
> 
> The much more important decision to make is which backend technology
> (database) to choose. AFAIK PostgreSQL is not really an Object Database,
> though it may have some features that go in this direction.
> 
> I basically see two options
> 1) a relational database, like PostgreSQL
> 2) an object database, like ZODB (for Python, part of Zope). There are
> also several open-source object databases for Java
> 
> But to say which one is more appropriate, we'd have to know more of the
> requirements.
> 
> One more hint: if you want to reuse Java libraries from an easy-to-use
> language like Python, you can use Jython (http://www.jython.org/). It's
> a Python interpreter than runs in the JVM.
> 
> As for a more perhaps more appropriate place to ask, I don't know a
> newsgroup that has this exact topic, but I think you might get value
> advice in the comp.lang.python newsgroup, or the Python mailing list,
> which is basically the same thing, just via email.
> 
> Come to think of it, I'l just cc the Python mailing list. Have an eye
> there (or in the newsgroup, whichever you prefer).
> 
> Gerhard

I would suspect this would be case where an OODBMS would very likely
choke if you try to do anything that involves some really advanced
querying capability.  Normally you take a pretty big performance hit
when you start querying down deep in an object graph and/or across
object instances - I wish it were otherwise.  Note also that zodb
currently doesn't support querying in the traditional sense of say a
product like Object Design's objectstore - you get pretty much
everything under the database root.  Where ODBMS tends to excel is in
applications where you have document-like data.  There are other's as
well, but your questions don't strike me as that being the situation
here.

PG has a number of very nice features including the ability to work
with datatypes other than alpha-numeric or binary, e.g., geometric
datatypes.  The ability to inherit from a table's schema design is
interesting and might be useful in this circumstance.  Since most
RDBMS now allow you to drop columns in a table (historically this
wasn't a fun thing to do) so schema evolution is not as big a deal as
it used to be.  I suspect you'll find PG offers most of what you need
here.


From eshorkey at rightbracket.com  Wed Mar 20 16:22:32 2002
From: eshorkey at rightbracket.com (Eric Shorkey)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 13:22:32 -0800
Subject: Embedded Python Requirements
Message-ID: <f98333bd.0203201322.2246a399@posting.google.com>

I'm having a little trouble making a self reliant embedded build of
python.
I've looked at Demos/embed/demo.c, and I understand it just fine, but
the python interpretter is generating errors on startup.

Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback

This occurs seemingly regardless of how I build libpython2.2.a.
>From searching previous posts, I'm able to remove the first three
lines by simply setting PYTHONHOME in the environment. It doesn't
matter whether the path is valid or not. Alternatively I could
redefine my own Py_GetPath() Py_GetPrefix() Py_GetExecPrefix() and
Py_GetProgramFullPath(). I probably will do just that. So these are
not really the problem.

It's the last error that really has me baffled. I understand that the
site module is always imported when the interpreter starts, but I
really need to build my app completely self sufficient. So the site
module will either have to be statically included, or it's necessity
will have to be removed.

Is it possible to statically link in the site module? And what exactly
does the site module provide that is so important that it is included
by default? I'd like to know, because I may be able to simply do away
with it.

Thanks!


From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 08:29:18 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 05:29:18 -0800
Subject: a text processing problem: are regexpressions necessary?
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203170529.6ac58327@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I thought I'd share this problem which has just confronted me.

The problem

An automatic way to tranform urls to articles on various news sites to
their printerfriendly counterparts is complicated by the fact that
different sites have different schemes for doing this. (see examples
below)
 
Now given two examples for each site: a regular link to an article and
its printer-friendly counterpart, is there a way to automatically
generate transformation code that is specific to each site, but which
generalizes across all article urls within that site?
 
Here are a few examples from several online publications:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm
    
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1043688
http://www.economist.com/agenda/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=1043688
    
http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuru031502.shtml
http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuruprint031502.html
    
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said
http://www.thenation.com/docPrint.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said

I'm kinda heading in the direction of attempting to generate regular
expressions for each site... But I'm a bit apprehensive about doing
this. Is there a more pythonic way to approach this problem?

Any advice would be appreciated.

regards,

Sandy


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  1 05:49:00 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 10:49:00 GMT
Subject: Telnet connection
References: <a5iskt$ge8$1@wanadoo.fr> <a5iuq9$7701i$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <a5j53i$oms$1@wanadoo.fr> <8z9f2rks.fsf@fido.trinitycapital.com> <a5j7fb$fb$1@wanadoo.fr> <a5k352$etg$0@216.39.172.122> <a5lu00$29p$1@wanadoo.fr> <a5mfh7$9fa$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a5nmas$mfe$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Feb 2002 23:46:47 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:51:06 +0100, "Riss Nicolas" <alien275 at libertysurf.fr> wrote:
>
>>Has somebody a python program where it is an telnet connection ?
>
>You appear to be running windows. What happens if you get into your browser
>and put
>
>    telnet://192.168.0.9:32
>
>in the location (i.e., what you are trying to connect to with your code)?
>Do you get a telnet client screen with a login prompt?
>
>Did you try \r\n in place of plain \n in your code?
>

Whoa, I just realized your program seems to be missing
a couple of lines for waiting for a user prompt and sending
the user name.

After that, wait for the password prompt. At least
that is typical. Or do you have some special telnet server
setup that bypasses that? Maybe it still needs a \r\n to
trigger it past the missing user entry? It's hard to say
with so little info.

Or copy from the screen of a manual login and successful
connect with a couple commands. (Do you connect to an ordinary
shell or some special program)?

BTW, if you somehow have wrapped your telnet program execution
in a try: do_it() except: pass, you could be missing a bug-caused
exception discussed in another thread. You might want to try
changing line 424 of telnetlib.py. In the other thread I wrote:

I suspect line 424
    self.msg('IAC %d not recognized' % ord(opt))
should be
    self.msg('IAC %d not recognized' % ord(c))

Regards,
Bengt Richter
PS., explain in French if that helps. Someone will translate if needed.
Maybe even if not needed ;-)



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Mar  5 15:33:51 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:33:51 -0500
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
Message-ID: <vuSh8kKkXMUC092yn@gnosis.cx>                

|Here is a related question -- Is there a search program for
|structured text files, in particular something that searches XML
|files.

You might like my xml_indexer program.  There is a writeup on the design
at:

    http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/xml_matters_10.txt

As with indexer, from which xml_indexer is derived, the module has been
aggregated into a package found at:

    http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_XML_Utils-0.9.tar.gz

Yours, David...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From timr at probo.com  Wed Mar  6 01:27:26 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:27:26 -0800
Subject: Minor, minor style question
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net> <7le58u86cc6u7ibsdobuj7jk8gqobuluq5@4ax.com> <3c8382f3.291759938@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <agdb8ucff7df8ss2jad966bsgpckd4aoj2@4ax.com>

mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) wrote:
>
>I'm far from being a Javascript expert, but I thought it was missing
>there, too. My one bit of Javascript coding a few years back I ended
>up having to do something like this to make mutiline text messages.
>Of course, Python can do the multiline messages natively...

No, Javascript has a continuation character (backslash), but it's not often
required in Javascript because, unlike Python and VB, Javascript is
free-format:

  str = "This is a long long string, " +
        "which I can encode just by " +
        "concatenating a bunch of strings " +
        "on separate lines.";

--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Thu Mar  7 12:25:31 2002
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:25:31 -0800
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com> <4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com> <2030665d.0203070126.55addc33@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C87A28B.549D9B1C@noaa.gov>

Sam Collett wrote:
> 
> > Actually, I usually use a few more cases so that I always get two
> > significant digits:  1.2k, 23k, 840k, 2.4M, etc.
> How would you do that then (maybe even to 2 decimal places, e.g. 24.52kb)?

You make sure the result of your division is a Float (Ah, how I long for
the "new division" to be standard!) and you use %f instead of %d

#!/usr/bin/env python


def ShowSize(raw):
    if raw < 3000:
        return "%db" % raw
    elif raw < 2000000:
        return "%.2fkb" % (raw / 1000.)
    elif raw < 2000000000L:
        return "%.2fMb" % (raw / 1000000.)
    else:
        return "%.2fGb" % (raw / 1000000000.)


print ShowSize(2567L)
print ShowSize(2567000L)
print ShowSize(256700000L)
print ShowSize(2567000000L)
print ShowSize(256700000000L)

And here are the results:

>>> execfile("junk.py")
2567b
2.57M
256.70M
2.57G
256.70G

-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Mar 15 01:11:38 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:11:38 -0000
Subject: Setting UNIX environment with a Python script
References: <3C8D143A.17963385@all.com> <B59j8.19604$N7.4435538@ruti.visi.com> <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649@zip.com.au> <slrna8qpqb.16e.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <pan.2002.03.13.09.30.40.476515.3090@zip.com.au> <a6rl4n$t8f$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <1016172689.74477@yasure>

Quoth "James T. Dennis" <jadestar at idiom.com>:
| Cameron Hutchison <camh at zip.com.au> wrote:
|> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:25:57 +1100, Grant Edwards wrote:
...
|>> Another common method is to have your Python program write the shell
|>> commands to stdout, then execute them with something like
|
|>> eval `myPythonProgram`
|
|> While that would work fine, I dont think it's a terribly good idea. I
|> think it would be cleaner to keep the shell syntax in a shell script and
|> avoid having the python program assume the scripting environment it is
|> returning to.
|
| 	Having "myPythonProgram" implemented in ANY language (including
| 	in ANY shell)  makes exactly the same assumptions: to wit:
| 	FOO=BAR assigns shell variables and either export (Bourne & family)
| 	or setenv (csh/tcsh) exports them into the environment.
|
| 	*ANY* program or script that is intended to be invoked under 
| 	eval `....` will have to make those assumptions.  

Yes, and that's why it's not really an ideal design!  I think that's
his point - don't write your tools to be invoked in an eval statement,
if you don't have to.  Or "source", or any solution that requires the
tool to know the natural syntax of its invoker.

How would we write it instead, to avoid this problem?  If there's CPU
time to spare, one alternative might be to invoke python separately for
each variable, and in that case python can print out just the value for
that variable.

  sh:   EX1="`exsetup EX1`" export EX1
  rc:   EX1 = `{exsetup EX1}
  ... etc.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar  1 08:22:06 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:22:06 -0600
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEHBOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <005601c1c124$4bcb90a0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>


> [Chris Gonnerman]
> > In the PC subdir of the Python-2.1.2 build directory is a module
> > called getpathp.c, which sets up the initial sys.path value.  It
> > is well known by Python programmers on Windows that the sys.path
> > initialization includes directories plucked from special registry
> > keys... unless you are using the PythonWare version.
>
> Or the PythonLabs distribution:  while the core installer does set up a
> registry entry containing "the usual" Python path, it *normally* never
uses
> it.  Read the long comment block at the start of getpathp.c, and this time
> believe that it means what it says <wink>.

>From several places in that comment block:

    Other "application paths" in the registry are always read.

I *don't* want this!

> Note that the core installer
> never sets up what the comment block calls "'application paths' - that is,
> sub-keys under the main PythonPath registry key".  If there aren't any
> application paths, then, as the rest of the comment block says, the main
> PythonPath key is ignored, unless a "Python Home" isn't given by a
> PYTHONHOME envar and can't be guessed from the python.exe path.

No, but win32all does (for instance).  The point is, I never want my
CD-based runtime to ever see the end user's install, if he/she has one.
The programs I want to run from CD may get psycho if the local version
has conflicting libraries, and in fact I have already encountered this
problem (so it's not just theoretical).

> > I thought, great, I can use this (the PythonWare version) to create
> > Python runnables on CD-ROM; but now I discover a fly in the ointment.
> > If the computer already has an installed Python interpreter, the
> > paths set in the registry are added, and BEFORE the paths from the
> > PythonWare PYROOT variable are added.
>
> AFAIK PythonWare doesn't ship with a custom getpathp.c, and neither does
> ActiveState, so AFAIK the comment block applies to all Python
installations.

Ah.  Didn't know that.

> The "PythonWare PYROOT variable" is news to me, google hasn't heard of it
> either, and I find no mention of PYROOT in my PythonWare PY21
installation.
> Setting a PYROOT envar has no visible effect on sys.path when I run under
> PY21 either.  That's a long-winded way of saying I think you must be
> confused <wink>.

Read the "setup.bat" file.  I assumed it actually did something... my
mistake.

> Have you tried setting PYTHONHOME?  If, e.g., I set PYTHONHOME to
\Python22,
> then execute python while *in* my \Python21 directory (these both
referring
> to PythonLabs distros), then Python 2.1.2 comes up with sys.path pointing
> entirely at Python 2.2 directories.  This is insane, but shows that
> PYTHONHOME works the way getpathp.c says it works.

Here's my result (formatting corrected, content same):

    K:\Python>set pythonhome=k:\python

    K:\Python>set path=k:\python

    K:\Python>python
    Python 2.1.1 (#20, Aug 23 2001, 11:27:17) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    Alternative ReadLine 1.5 -- Copyright 2001, Chris Gonnerman
    >>> import sys
    >>> sys.path
    ['', 'C:\\Python\\win32', 'C:\\Python\\win32\\lib', 'C:\\Python',
    'C:\\Python\\Pythonwin', 'k:\\python\\DLLs', 'k:\\python\\lib',
    'k:\\python\\lib\\plat-win', 'k:\\python\\lib\\lib-tk', 'K:\\PYTHON',
    'k:\\python\\PIL', 'k:\\python\\PST', 'k:\\python\\pythonware']
    >>>

Note in particular that the Alternative Readline has been loaded.  It
shouldn't be; I didn't put it in the k:\python install, only my python.org
"standard" install on the C drive.  It seems to have already run when
site.py is loaded (I considered hacking sys.path there).

> > What I want is a version of either python.exe or python21.dll
> > (whichever contains the offending getpathp.c module) with the
> > registry-probing code disabled.
>
> If that's what you really want, you'll have to edit getpathp.c and compile
> your own Python.

It's beginning to look that way.  Dang.  That's going to be a lot of
work.  I build software with MinGW32 from time to time, but I don't have
a working CygWin install, which seems to be necessary to run the
configure script.  Frankly, no insult intended, I'd like to keep CygWin
off my computer; I tried programming with it and found it very
disappointing.

> > Ideally it should still apply the paths from PYROOT (basically in this
> > case it must).
>
> Python doesn't look at any such envar on any platform.  Maybe that's why
> setting PYROOT isn't doing you any good <wink>.  Try PYTHONHOME.

As I pointed out, I found the setup.bat file confusing; however PYTHONHOME
isn't helping either.





From herrn at gmx.net  Thu Mar  7 05:18:53 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:18:53 +0100
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
In-Reply-To: <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20020307101853.GA1326@lurkabove.darkstar>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:28:09PM +1300, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Marco Herrn wrote:
> > 
> > hmm, do I have to implement that in _every_ method or just in
> > methods who use the 'self' statement?
> 
> In every method. The instance is always passed in
> as the first parameter, so there must be a parameter
> there to receive it, even if it's not used inside
> the method.

Is there a reason why this is just a convention? It seems (because it is
such a _strong_ convention) that this should be a real feature of the
language. I mean that there could be a reserved word "self" which is
there all the time, so that one doesn't hast to do this himself.

Bye
Marco

-- 
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From aahz at panix.com  Mon Mar 11 11:43:30 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 08:43:30 -0800
Subject: About deletion of variables in version 2.1
References: <a6b34h$foj$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>
Message-ID: <a6imri$grd$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <a6b34h$foj$1 at talia.mad.ttd.net>,
Juan Huertas <jhg at galdon.com> wrote:
>
>I'm working with large list or dict an have problems with the deletion and
>time of response, this problems does not exist in version 2.0:
>
>Reading a large file and loading to a list:
>
>f=open('c:/xx','rb')
>ls=[]
>while not eof:
>    ln=f.readline()
>    ls.append(ln)
>
>This takes 5 seconds (reasonable)
>
>The new instruction:
>
>ls=[] # or del ls
>
>Takes about 10 seconds and use 100% of Memory!!!!

How big is the file and how much RAM do you have?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 22:08:13 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 19:08:13 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1016173476.645562@yasure> <2b57f654.0203151021.7f709e4c@posting.google.com> <a6tic4$uke$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <2b57f654.0203151908.33413282@posting.google.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<a6tic4$uke$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
> Quoth wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef):
> ...
> |> The complementary problem, of course, is that once you have invoked
> |> readline(), it will read all the data available on the file descriptor,
> |> or a lot of it anyway, and return only the first line.  The next time,
> |> it will return the next line from its buffer, but you have no way to
> |> know that it has another line waiting there.  select() can't see it.
> |> There are solutions, I think the easiest thing in most cases is to
> |> throw away the file object and just use the file descriptor (fileno())
> |> (or sockets in this case.)
> |
> | This is even more frightening.  I don't want to lose any data!  How
> | can I protect myself from this?  Why is using the file descriptor
> | better?
> 
> Well, you're not exactly losing data, it's just buffered, though that
> may be too fine a point depending on the circumstances.

Here's what I mean.  If I do a select.select() and it says, "there's
data," then I do a readline() on the file object, but select() was
talking about 2 lines of data, I will lose a line of data, because my
next select() will say "nothing left."  Is that right?  Because the
call to readline() somehow scarfs up all the data available and saves
it for my next call to readline()?  If that's so, then readline()
sucks, because I should have a way to query it to avoid blocking. 
Obviously select() and readline() just don't play ball together very
well...

> 
> The point with file descriptor is to use system I/O functions on the
> device, and avoid buffered C I/O.  Basically because select is a
> system I/O function.  If there were a C analogue to select, then you
> could use it with C buffered file objects, but there is no such thing.
> 
> When select tells you "this thing is ready to read", it means the
> device is ready for a system level read(), as in os.read(fd, bufsize).
> So do that, and you'll get what select was telling you about.  It's
> really simple.  The rules are the same, if you get an empty string
> it's at "end of file" (the pipe closed.)

I just want to be sure I understand this.  You're saying that
os.read() somehow get what select.select() was talking about, but that
f.fromchild.readline() will read less than that?

> 
> I have lost track of what kind of devices we're actually talking about -
> I'm seeing the word "socket", but then what looks like popen2.Popen3.
> Note that in Python, sockets are are normally socket objects, with recv()
> methods etc., but these are unbuffered and recv() is like os.read().
> Pipes (as created by Popen3) are either integer file descriptors or
> file objects, there isn't any special system level pipe object.
> As long as you're on UNIX, there's a certain purity of abstraction here
> that you can exploit if you want it just to simplify matters - you can
> get the file descriptor with s.fileno(), and you can use os.read() with
> that - or you can use sock.recv() if you prefer.

The objects from my original post are popen2.Popen3 objects, as you
noticed.  The Python lib manual says that os.read() should not be used
with file objects, even though I can get a file descriptor from them
with fileno().  Will it work?


From ak at silmarill.org  Tue Mar 26 22:50:36 2002
From: ak at silmarill.org (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:50:36 GMT
Subject: Dealing with python version
Message-ID: <slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org>

Hello,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like if python1.6 or 2.0 are
already installed and you install a newer version, python command still
points to the old interpreter.

I think it would be sensible to use the newest installed python to run
a program. Is there some elegant way to do that?

I would ideally prefer it to run using newest interpreter available
unless it's older than some minimum requirement. It's not very
user-friendly to put #!/usr/bin/env python2.1 bang line and then say in
a README that if user gets an error, he has to somehow find out what's
the latest version he's got and change the bang line to it.

What's the proper way to deal with all of this?

Thanks,

 - Andrei

-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 12:35:27 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 17:35:27 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a84t0v$k7u$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Guido,

> > Not in Guido's eyes <wink>.  We don't need 3 equivalent ways to
> > turn an arbitrary expression into a bool ("bool(x)" same-as "not
> > not (x)" same-as "truth(x)").  *Especially* if str(bool) and
> > repr(bool) produce 'True' and 'False', people have a legitimate
> > need to make an arbitrary true/false expression produce 0 and 1
> > too, if only to preserve 0/1-based true/false output.
> > operator.truth() has always been the best way to do exactly that.
> > Alternatives like "(boolexpr) + 0" and "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and
> > "(0, 1)[boolexpr]" reek in comparison.
> 
> Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> an int is int(b).  Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for
> this purpose is backwards.  (IMO there's almost *never* a reason to
> import that module anyway.)

I thought Tim was trying to map a range of integer values onto just 0
and 1 as ints, not False and True, where as you're suggesting he just
wants to get an int from a boolean.  I think he has an expression like
day_of_month, e.g. 30, and wants a 0 or 1 from it.

I could easily be wrong here.


Ralph.



From andreas at mtg.co.at  Tue Mar 12 13:52:17 2002
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:52:17 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: <3C86291A.4A2E9CA@spam.nada.kth.se>
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
	<3C8466F9.2080903@jerf.org>
	<_f7h8.5541$aP6.6480@rwcrnsc54>
	<3C851D41.3000902@jerf.org>
	<3C85446B.B389BB0F@spam.nada.kth.se>
	<3C855848.60302@jerf.org>
	<3C86291A.4A2E9CA@spam.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <20020312195217.4247fed7.andreas@mtg.co.at>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:35:06 +0100
Bj?rn Lindberg <d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se> wrote:

> No it's not; it's a completely well-defined feature.
Well, it's so for a value oriented language like C++.

> A common use for the technique in C++ is so called "sentry"-objects that
> handle resources. A stack allocated object that acquires a lock or a
> file handle for example. The object will be destroyed upon leaving the
> function, and the lock can be released or the file handle closed.
> Elegant and efficient. Now imagine two resources where one depends on
> the other:
> 
> void a_function ()
> {
> 	sentry1 s1;
> 	sentry2 s2;
> 	...
> }

Well, in Python you would have:
def a_function():
	s1=Sentry1()
	s2=Sentry2()

Now this has quite different semantics than the C++ version above, because in Python anything is a reference:

void a_function() {
   sentry1 *s1;
   sentry2 *s2;

   s1=new sentry1;
   s2=new sentry2;
}

In this case C++ doesn't even call the destructor.

Especially, in the case of references, the lexical sequence of definition is not always the same as the dynamic
sequence of creation.

Consider:

def a_function():
	s1=Sentry1()
	s2=Sentry2()
	s1=Sentry1()

Which is the logical sequence for destructing these things?

Additionally, the destructor in Python is seldom needed, and it's calling time is not specified by design choice.
(Jython doesn't use reference counting, it uses Javas gc.)

> The sentry objects will be created and destroyed in the correct order
> for this kind of use to be possible.

Well, this makes sense for C++ (or even might make sense for say EXPANDED types in Eiffel, etc.), but
it senseless in a reference-based language like Python.

Andreas



From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 28 17:32:57 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:32:57 -0800
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2> <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>
Message-ID: <3CA39A19.2D12BFD6@activestate.com>

"Charl P. Botha" wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list at python.org>,
> David Ascher wrote:
> > Thanks for all the interest in ActivePython.  We hope to not have these
> > kinds of delays in the future.
> 
> Just remember not to split your infinitives in the future. ;)

I am noting but a poar french speeker.  Me no nossing aboot sutch zings.

"J'espere qu'on n'aura pas ce genre de delai a l'avenir".

Thanks.  Want to edit a book? =)

-- David Ascher



From bobnotbob at byu.edu  Tue Mar 12 12:05:47 2002
From: bobnotbob at byu.edu (Bob Roberts)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 09:05:47 -0800
Subject: english thesaurus and dictionary
Message-ID: <c4e6b17d.0203120905.757d5cd5@posting.google.com>

I want to incorporate an english thesaurus and dictionary into my
application.  Does anybody know of freely available thesauri and
dictionaries that I could use?


From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 28 18:43:20 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:43:20 -0800
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA3AA98.2F94398B@activestate.com>

phil hunt wrote:

> And Guido's statement supports my suggestion that pass be made
> optional in Python. Consider, when someone is designing a class,
> one could write an outline like this:
> 
> class BaseClass:
> 
> class MyClass(BaseClass):
>    def __init__(self):
>    def method1(self, a, b, c):
>    def method2(self, d, e):
>    def method3(self, f):
> 
> It is perfectly clear what this means. But unfortunately, as Python
> stands today, it is syntactically invalid, one would have to say:
> 
> class BaseClass:
>    pass
> 
> class MyClass(BaseClass):
>    def __init__(self):
>       pass
>    def method1(self, a, b, c):
>       pass
>    def method2(self, d, e):
>       pass
>    def method3(self, f):
>       pass

May I suggest that you instead do:

>>> class MyClass:
...     def do_this(self):
...             "this function would do this"
...     def do_that(self):
...             "while this function would do that"
...
>>>

and use the docstrings as a placeholder for the actions of the function
-- typically something that's foremost in your mind when you're
pseudocoding, and it counts as a statement as far as the parser's
concerned (hence is syntactically valid), and at the same time, you've
already got docstrings ready for  you when you start to implement.

--david



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar  5 16:39:27 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:39:27 +1100 
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1DF@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: James_Althoff at i2.com [mailto:James_Althoff at i2.com]
>
[snip]
> being sequences <wink>.
[snip]
> back at ya <wink>).
[snip]
> And keep on writing code <wink>.

You've really taken to heart Tim Peter's comments about looking more
favourably on those who know how to <wink>, haven't you?  ;)

Tim Delaney



From gleki at gol.ge  Mon Mar  4 17:26:45 2002
From: gleki at gol.ge (Giorgi Lekishvili)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:26:45 -0800
Subject: more functional programming
Message-ID: <3C83F4A5.E952DA05@gol.ge>

Hi all!

Please, accept my appologies for this naive question.

I have taken a careful look on the operator module docs. The module
enables one to make procedures as lists. That's too good.

However, is there already something like scheme's "define" abstractor?
This'd be used as the first element of such list, yielding the result of
the procedure...

Is this, or anything similar, already present in Python? If not, does
someone of the Python gurus plan to do so?

Thank you very much for your time.

Greetings,
Giorgi

PS. Is a genetic programming library written in/for Python available?



From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 21 08:34:48 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:34:48 +0100
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882@posting.google.com> <a7bf0t$4uc$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <mailman.1016711675.26174.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7cnhp$k6hq0$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

> > >>> import sys
> > >>> sys.platform
> > 'win32'
> > >>> import os
> > >>> os.name
> > 'nt'
>
> That's a crude way of determining the platform, because sys.platform
> depends on the compiler used to compile Python. Yes, even on Windows.
> But I'm  reasonably sure that the Pythonlabs folks won't change their
> Windows compiler anytime soon.
>
> I'd very much like to have a real way for determining the platform.
> Anybody wants to write a PEP? :-)
>
IIRC Marc Andre Lemburg has written a platform.py script, which may
even make it into the official Python lib (?).

Thomas




From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 20:05:28 2002
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:05:28 GMT
Subject: Regular expressions newbie: something for templates
References: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no> <mailman.1015801819.3967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <spTi8.58594$nl1.9869522@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Skip's example would be faster than mine because I used .*? which has 
problems when the amount of content matched is large.

Another way to spell this:
re.sub("\$([^$]+)\$","%(\g<1>)s",s)
or:
re.sub("\$(?P<body>[^$]+)\$","%(\g<body>)s",s)

Also Skip used a raw string r"xxx" which I should have done as well.
The doc explains the problem with not using raw strings. 
Has to do with back slash hell.

Now if I can make all this nice stuff a habit :)
--Darrell

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     >>> import re
>     >>> s = "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
>     >>> re.sub(r"\$([a-zA-Z_0-9]+)\$", r"%(\1)s", s)
>     'This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s'
> 




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 10 16:09:29 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:09:29 -0600
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102138400.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102138400.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <15499.52105.790818.353389@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Pearu> So, I would like to disable the assert statements in one module
    Pearu> while in others, that are under development, assert statements
    Pearu> are enabled.  Is it possible? I am using Python 2.2.

This comes to mind:

    s/assert /pass; #assert/

:-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
"As often happens in Net communities, people find all kinds of energy to
compose incisive criticisms of the threads and postings of other members,
when they could be directing that energy towards brilliant new threads and
postings of their own." - Tom Neff



From susan at mars.provis.com  Fri Mar 29 15:13:14 2002
From: susan at mars.provis.com (Susan Williams)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:13:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Linux-related help
Message-ID: <200203292013.g2TKDE304906@mars.provis.com>

I thought I'd end the suspense and let you all know how
it turned out.  Just as you no doubt suspected, it was
the 3rd party module walking on memory.  We've had this
code running on four platforms for considerable time
without it causing a problem, but it definitely had
a memory error in it.

So, so sorry to cast aspersions on python, all is better.
(I hope I don't have to join a 12-step program if I
admit to using this, but the module was typhoon
in case any of you are using it...  And as I mentioned,
I haven't been paying attention, so if Aaron Watters
has written a database module in python I'd love to
hear about it...  ;-)

susan

>Howdy, y'all,
>
>[No one will remember me, but I'm back after a long
>absense because--you guessed it--I have a problem and
>I want some help...]
>
>We are attempting to port from Solaris to Linux, and
>I'm having some unpleasant malloc/free problems at
>exit (sys.exit).  We have running software based
>currently on 1.5.2.  We're compiling on Linux with gcc
>3.0.3 (on Solaris we were using Sun's compiler, not
>gcc, I think).
>
>Unfortunately I have a 3rd party module I'm linking with 
>python that is rather ancient.  We first got it when using
>python 1.3, we "ported" it to 1.5.2, and I can't quite
>pin down whether it is the root of the problem or not,
>perhaps it is doing something not quite kosher.
>(The idea of trying to get it running with 2.1 gives
>me the willies, but that is not really today's issue.)
>
>Anyone out there using Linux especially with 1.5.2
>is this ringing any bells?  On exit, python is clearing
>the list of modules, each module is clearing dictionary
>entries by setting them to None, and it is the decref
>that is blowing up.  It is not always in the same place,
>but it is always in the code that is setting a dictionary
>value to None and deleting whatever was there before.
>
>Any ideas welcome.  I'm not too well versed on either the
>innards of python or the proper coding for module
>extensions.
>
>thanks...
>sue williams
>
>
>-- 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From lac at strakt.com  Thu Mar 21 11:37:39 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:37:39 +0100
Subject: multithreading and Tkinter 
In-Reply-To: Message from Arcady Genkin <agenkin@thpoon.com> 
   of "Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:18:18 GMT." <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu> 
References: <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu> 
Message-ID: <200203211637.g2LGberq003250@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Greetings:
> How do I signal the GUI thread that new information for a particular
> object has arrived?  Currently I'm using after() method of the Tkinter
> object to update info for *all* objects every second, but that is
> hardly a good design, since there may be 500 of them, and the new info
> can be arriving once every 15 minutes.
> 
> Any ideas and/or pointers to the documentation (preferably online)
> highly appreciated.

You want to use Queue.Queue() to make yourself a nice incoming
queue, and fill it with the data that arrived and the object(s) that 
care(s) about it.  You'll still use after, but you will only update
the objects that care, and only when something has arrived.  See
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82965

Laura Creighton



From mkelly2002 at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 15:12:14 2002
From: mkelly2002 at earthlink.net (Michael Kelly)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203291353040.8440-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <ohi9au4lnkh142b7jd1ppj0pa2d93tbh70@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:03:26 +0200, Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> wrote:

>Great! How about implementing Delphi to Python translator? 

That might be a bit of a tough one for starters but as
a Delphi user I could dig seeing a parser that followed
all the 'Uses' dependencies and told you which units
could be deleted from your app's Uses clause without
breaking the program.  I see calls for it all the time on
the Delphi groups but I gather there's no freeware
out there that does it.


Mike

--

"I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member."
    -- Groucho Marx


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Mar  7 01:09:12 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:09:12 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:35:06 +0100."
             <3C86291A.4A2E9CA@spam.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <E16ir5U-0004sH-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Bj?rn Lindberg <d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se> wrote:

> > > and yes, all *standards* *conformant* compilers will follow this practice.
> >
> > Emphasis mine. That was my point. <wink>
> >
> > On an intuitive level, that's one of those "depend on it when you have
> > no other options" kind of features. Even when the standard specs those
>
> No it's not; it's a completely well-defined feature.
>
> Anyway the OP's original example wouldn't have been a beautiful specimen
> of code in C++ either, but since it was only an example it doesn't
> matter.
>
> A common use for the technique in C++ is so called "sentry"-objects that
> handle resources. A stack allocated object that acquires a lock or a
> file handle for example. The object will be destroyed upon leaving the
> function, and the lock can be released or the file handle closed.
> Elegant and efficient. Now imagine two resources where one depends on
> the other:
>
> void a_function ()
> {
> 	sentry1 s1;
> 	sentry2 s2;
> 	...
> }
>
> The sentry objects will be created and destroyed in the correct order
> for this kind of use to be possible.

Before this thread I would have agreed that destruction order is
completely well defined. Looking at your example I'm not sure about
one case. What if you write:

void a_function ()
{
	sentry1 s1, s2;
	...
}

? Will s1 be destructed before s2 by all compilers? Guess, I never
cared about that because I tend to use multiple declarations myself.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From gvdbogae at vub.ac.be  Sat Mar 23 09:40:24 2002
From: gvdbogae at vub.ac.be (Geert-Jan Van den Bogaerde)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 15:40:24 +0100
Subject: Info needed on metaclasses / type-ing
In-Reply-To: <a7i109$ufh$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>
References: <a7i109$ufh$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>
Message-ID: <1016894425.1344.1.camel@gandalf>

On Sat, 2002-03-23 at 14:46, Dimitris Garanatsios wrote:
> I recently browsed through an unfinished book of Bruce Eckel, "Thinking in
> Python", Revision 0.1.2
> I can't remember the URL where i got it, but i found it through searching
> for documentation on Python from the main site, www.python.org
> 
> I found the following peace of code there:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> #: c01:SingletonMetaClass.py
> class SingletonMetaClass(type):
>     def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
>         super(SingletonMetaClass, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
>         original_new = cls.__new__
> 
>         def my_new(cls, *args, **kwds):
>             if cls.instance == None:
>                 cls.instance = original_new(cls, *args, **kwds)
>             return cls.instance
> 
>         cls.instance = None
>         cls.__new__ = staticmethod(my_new)
> 
> class bar(object):
>     __metaclass__ = SingletonMetaClass
> 
>     def __init__(self,val):
>         self.val = val
> 
>     def __str__(self):
>         return `self` + self.val
> 
> ...
> #:~
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> My question is about the "SingletonMetaClass" class.
> I have tried in the past to create my own types using Python and just could
> not find a way of doing that since built-in type objects' structure where
> not documented.
> 
> The "SingletonMetaClass though", as far as i can understand, please help me
> with that, is doing exactly what i wanted: a new type definition. I browsed
> Python's manuals to find more about the attributes and functions that are
> used, but found nothing...
> 
> Could anyone help me find information about the meaning and use of the
> following attributes/functions/objects? These are:
> 
> --- the "__metaclass__" attribute of the "bar" class (derived from object)
> 
> --- the "object" object itself
> 
> --- the "super" function used in the "SingletonMetaClass" class (a class for
> a new type object?)
> 
> --- the "__new__" attribute/method of a class (applies to any class?)
> 
> --- the "staticmethod" function used in the "SingletonMetaClass" class
> 
> --- any additional info about related classes or functions that are not used
> in the above example but exist and are available to use


http://www.python.org/2.2.1/descrintro.html

Geert-Jan




From mwh at python.net  Sun Mar 31 15:44:54 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:44:54 GMT
Subject: New-style exceptions?
References: <slrnaaerno.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <lk8z88eabe.fsf@elios.maths.bris.ac.uk>

mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:

> Is there a reason why new-style objects can't be used in the raise
> statement?
> 
> >>> class Error(object): pass
> ...
> >>> raise Error
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: exceptions must be strings, classes, or instances, not type
> 
> This seems like an artificial restriction...
> 
> (Using 2.2)

This has been argued about on python-dev very recently.

I didn't read the thread, though, so you'll have to wait for someone
else to summarise or hit the archives...

Cheers,
M.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Mar  5 18:08:44 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 15:08:44 -0800
Subject: ICU wrapper for Python?
References: <mailman.1012816506.11178.python-list@python.org> <m3g03kq9z8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015320253.14747.python-list@python.org> <j4r8mz58wu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015344612.32189.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203051508.4824b01f@posting.google.com>

Fredrik Juhlin <laz at strakt.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015344612.32189.python-list at python.org>...
> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 04:30:41PM +0100, Martin von Loewis wrote:
> > Fredrik Juhlin <laz at strakt.com> writes:
> > 
> > > However, I'm relying on the fact that since Python uses UCS-2 and ICU uses
> > > UTF-16 for their respective internal format, any Python unicode string can
> > > be used as an ICU unicode string. So for the collation I don't need to do
> > > any conversion between the two. To expose the codecs, one would have to
> > > convert the resulting strings from UTF-16 to UCS-2.
> > 
> > I'm a bit slow here: Why do you think Python uses UCS-2 and not
> > (simultaneously) UTF-16? What kind of conversion would you perform?
> Maybe I'm the one that's slow, or possibly horribly confused.
> Actually, I'm pretty damn sure that the docs I read at home said that
> Python used UCS-2 rather than UTF-16. But looking at the online docs
> they're saying UTF-16. So what I thought would be a problem apparently
> won't be. Which is good news :)
> 

Here FWIW is my understanding of the long form of what I think
Martin's point is:

(1) CS == character set. UCS-2 is a 16-bit character set. It covers
the original Unicode 1.0 character set. It is "deprecated and dead" --
so says the ICU web site.

(2) TF == transformation format. UTF-16 is a method of representing a
larger character set (the Unicode 21-bit set) in 16-bit units. It uses
"surrogate pairs" (two 16-bit numbers out of ranges that are reserved
in UCS-2) to represent characters whose ordinal is greater than 65535.

(3) Conversion from UCS-2 to UTF-16: Unnecessary; UCS-2 data is
already in UTF-16 format.

(4) Conversion from UTF-16 to UCS-2: if there are surrogates in the
data, strictly a UCS-2 result is not possible; if there are no
surrogates, then the data is already UCS-2. The only function a
"converter" could usefully perform would be to check for surrogates.

(5) Pythons compiled for "narrow" Unicode (16 bits) support UTF-16
e.g. they don't take exception to the presence of surrogates, count a
valid surrogate pair as one character when dealing in characters as
opposed to code-units, etc.


From pibble at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 18:21:24 2002
From: pibble at yahoo.com (Preston Landers)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 15:21:24 -0800
Subject: Exceptions and modules / namespaces question
Message-ID: <1136f745.0203281521.76a1a62c@posting.google.com>

This is a question about modules / namespaces and exceptions.
It's probably been asked before, but.... I looked in the Python FAQ
and did some searches on Google (& Groups) and didn't turn up
anything.

I've run into this thing a couple of times before, but I was always
able to work around it or avoid it, but I'd like to understand what's
going on here, because it's probably just a problem with my
understanding.

The problem, in a nutshell, is that I can't seem to catch an exception
in the same module it was defined in if the function that raised the
exception is in a different module, because of naming issues.

-------module2.py:

import module1

def raise_foo_exception():
   raise module1.FooException("HELLO")

-------module1.py:

import exceptions, sys

class FooException(exceptions.Exception):
   pass

def main():

   try:
       import module2
       module2.raise_foo_exception()
   except FooException, e:
       print "Got it!"
   except:
       xi = sys.exc_info()
       print "Didn't get it.  Got this instead:", xi[0], xi[1]

if __name__ == "__main__":
   main()

---------result:

Didn't get it.  Got this instead: module1.FooException HELLO



The question is, how do I explicitly catch FooException in main()
without doing a catch-all except: and then examining the type of my
exception, and making a decision based on that.  It's kinda clunky.

thanks,

Preston Landers
pibble at yahoo.com


From jlh at cox.net  Thu Mar  7 19:52:27 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:52:27 GMT
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net> <mailman.1015473913.28082.python-list@python.org> <XpCh8.848$kg2.73639@news1.east.cox.net> <mailman.1015529542.9404.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fXTh8.3557$kg2.155989@news1.east.cox.net>

"Geoff Gerrietts" <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015529542.9404.python-list at python.org...
> Quoting Jeff Hinrichs (jlh at cox.net):
> >
> > Would you be interested in pursuing this further?
>
> I think we should. I like the idea of starting with an interaction.
> Your observation that interactivity interests new users is dead on; I
> can remember being in exactly that same boat.
>
> We might set out from Hello, World with the idea of making Hello,
> Name. Develop Echo as a "here's the source, let's talk about it" then
> follow it up with "now see if you can make "hello, name" work, based
> on the original Hello World. No real new challenges there, but
> learning to output a constant string and a variable on the same line
> might be interesting for the student, and if they don't get it, tell
> them a few ways to solve that problem "on the next page".
>
> Do we want to take them through a few steps on how to pretty up the
> output? Probably not, huh?
Well maybe we might want to consider this here.  In reply's farther down the
list there is talk of left/right brain types.  Perhaps we should give the
other hemisphere something to focus on.  Not too much at this point but
enough to partially appease the asthetic insticnts in some.

> Then we move to the traditional Number Guess game. Discuss if, suggest
> the need for else.
>
> I'm trying to get granular here, trying to build in both the need for
> the student to engage and think about the topic at hand while
> maintaining interest and a real sense of progress.
This might be the proper time to come to a concensus on what the outcome of
this educational experience should be.  If we are after CP4E then we should
probably not attack the problem with any idea that these students are going
to become CS majors in college.  If we can create an environment that opens
up a section of their mind about how programs work they would benefit in any
academic or business related activity that involved computers.  We should do
nothing to stunt the growth of potential CS majors but our focus should be
on programming for people who probably won't be professional programmers.  I
apologize for the clumsiness of the above description but I haven't put all
of my thoughts together yet.

> When do we start immersing them with "useful examples" they should
> try? After we get through if / else?
The next natural construct after if/then/else are loops.  But maybe we
should move to something a bit more right brained<wink> so as not to loose
our hypothetical students?  And then move to loops?

> Am I trying to get too low-level? Do we want to stay above the clouds,
> keep this as a heuristic for teaching rather than a specific
> curriculum?
Perhaps a happy medium between a nose bleed view and having their nose in
the dirt.  Python is great for keeping your nose out of the dirt for many
applications.  You can put it their if it suits you but it's not a
requirement.

> --
> Geoff Gerrietts        <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
> "Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments
> when he was merely stupid."        --Heinrich Heine
-Jeff




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Mar  5 04:37:52 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 10:37:52 +0100
Subject: PyTypeObject* XXX(PyObject*)
References: <a27c5cd4.0203050104.2af311c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4adtn73tb.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel) writes:

> PyTypeObject* t = XXX(po);
> 
> What should be XXX, i.e., what is the name of the function
> to get the TypeObject of a Python Object?

No function: t = po->ob_type.

Regards,
Martin


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Mar 19 05:13:34 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:13:34 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3bsdkhq78.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ibEl8.10698$Hz2.42599@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Andrew Markebo:

> Maybe if I new the codepage used by the user, and use that to convert
> the 8bit string to unicode??

   Think about the situation where several people share a directory on a
file server. Each user may use a different code page. A user may change code
pages. File names can even contain letters that are not all available from
one code page. On NT you can create file names from any sequence of Unicode
characters but these names may not be usable when that disk is read from
Windows 9x.

   Neil





From wesc at deirdre.org  Fri Mar  1 01:48:46 2002
From: wesc at deirdre.org (wesc at deirdre.org)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:48:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: SV-SF Bay Area Python user grp (BayPIGgies) mtg 3/13 7:30pm
Message-ID: <200203010648.WAA23404@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

When:  March 13, 2002, 7:30-9pm
Where: Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA
Title: BioPython

Jeffrey Chang (School of Medicine, Stanford University) founded the
BioPython project in 1999 to promote the development of shared software
infrastructure in bioinformatics.  His talk will cover the architecture
and capabilities of Biopython and also give a sneak preview of the
upcoming version. 

Click on BayPIGgies link below for more info, including driving
directions, past meetings, schedule, etc.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall PTR, ? 2001
    http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/

Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group (BayPIGgies)
    http://deirdre.org/baypiggies

wesley.j.chun :: wesc at deirdre.org
cyberweb.consulting : henderson, nv : cyberweb at rocketmail.com
http://roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 25 17:17:18 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 17:17:18 -0500
Subject: When to use locks in a threaded Web-server
References: <y83n8.15186$eJ6.285255@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <a7o7le$i6o$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <y83n8.15186$eJ6.285255 at news2.ulv.nextra.no>,
Thomas Weholt <thomas at weholt.org> wrote:
>
>I got a web-server project based on BaseHTTPServer using threads (
>SocketServer.ThreadingMixin ). What do I have to do to make it "safe",
>thread-wise? When do I have to aquire locks to set variables in a) the
>webserver itself or b) in variables in the given requesthandler ??

Generally speaking, you only need to lock when you've got an object
shared across multiple threads.  Doesn't look like you need any locking
in your example, but because Python objects are technically global and
Python provides a great deal of introspective capability, it can be
tricky to figure out what objects are shared.  Generally speaking, if
you use Queue.Queue() to transfer information between threads, you don't
need any locking.  See the OSCON 2001 slides and examples on my web page
for more details.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 31 03:33:25 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:33:25 GMT
Subject: relational database?
Message-ID: <pRzp8.4373$hi7.15765@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

What relational database is easy to setup and use with python? besides msql
(im having some problems)

Cheeeers..
trungie






From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 08:28:02 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:28:02 -0500
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com> <hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <c76ff6fc.0203281829.6e2cf785@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0_Zo8.16784$Ou.11910@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote ...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:<hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>...
[ ... ]
> > This was a feature of the Icon language. But Icon had no explicit
literal
> > representation for dictionaries (or tables, as I think they were called)
as
> > far as I can remember, so it was easy to make the default value an
argument
> > to a constructor function. It's not obvious how you could indicate the
> > default without calling a method.
> >
>
> See above: freq = dict(default=0)
> I think that I'm proposing indicating the default by having a keyword
> argument ("default")on the new-in-2.2 constructor ("dict"); what do
> you think that I meant?

I knew what you meant, I was simply pointing out that dictionaries' literal
representations could notr specify a default value, which (I supposed) might
lead to VBScript-like horrors where all dictionaries (collections, in
VBScript) must be created by explicit addition.

However, Bength Richers suggestion:

> empty_dict_with_default = {:default}
> with_one_key_value_pair = {:default, key:value}
>
> A little tweak in the grammar might do it?

might well suffice, and wouldn't require huge changes to the grammar.

regards
 Steve







From magnus at thinkware.se  Wed Mar 20 08:34:40 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:34:40 +0100
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3C988FF0.9010408@thinkware.se>

> Andy Gimblett <gimbo at ftech.net> writes:
>><ul tal:define="sequence python:container.mydb.selectbyname(name='peter')">
>>  <li tal:repeat="item sequence">
>>    <span tal:replace="item/surname">surname</span>
>>  </li>
>></ul>


Paul Rubin wrote:

> Geez, I find all this pseudo-HTML horrendous.  Why not just embed
> normal looking code in <?  ?> tags the way PHP does it?  Do WYSIWYG
> editors have a problem with that?  If worse comes to worse, embed
> the Python code with the kinds of tags used for Javascript.  The
> WYSIWYG editors should be used to Javascript by now.
 
Well Paul, this is actually rather clever, particularly

where the labour is divided between someone who produces
layout and text, and someone else who writes the code.

If someone has written the HTML with just mock-up values where
there should be data from the application you just add the
attributes to replace the tag contents with program generated
data.

The HTML will display the same. You can look at the file in
a browser or in deramweaver etc, and you will see the correct
layout with the mock-up values.

Run it in your application and you will see real data instead.

With the PHP approach, the "visual designer" won't be able to

see what the page will actually look like in his HTML editor.
No way. He will have to guess, and upload it into the application
and run it there to see if the visual appearence was the way he
wanted.

Sure, the data from the application might look fairly different
from his mock-up data. In the example above he'll only see one
list element, and in reality there might be many. It's still
much closer to WYSIWYG than any other approach I've seen though.


Even if you are the one and the same, it will probably be simpler

to get the design right with this approach.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar  2 03:44:56 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 09:44:56 +0100
Subject: Older Python bug entries on SourceForge
References: <u1yf327cp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <m3g03jn8sj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <uy9hbzg7z.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7svbbp3.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> writes:

> >       So if you have a bug number below 300000, SF will have
> > renumbered the bug by now. They used to have a backwards-compatible
> > URL in place, redirecting to the new report, but they may have
> > disabled that by now.
> 
> Is there any way to compute the new number based on the old (e.g., by
> adding some fixed constant or something)?

I believe the following happened: Bugs, with bug-ids 1xxxxx, and URLs
of the form

http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=115845&group_id=5470

have been renumbered to 2xxxxx, with URLs of the form

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&aid=215845&func=detail

Just try it in this specific case; the redirection is still active.
Patches in the 1xxxxx range have been renumbered to 3xxxxx.

HTH,
Martin



From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Mon Mar 18 16:58:59 2002
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:58:59 +0100
Subject: Generating getter methods with exec
References: <3C964E1A.84D5A26B@ndh.net> <3C96569F.8E76FA6E@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <3C966323.A522D680@ndh.net>

Hello Neal

thank you for your answer. :)

Neal Norwitz wrote:
> You don't need to generate code.  This should do what you want:
> 
> class GetterTest:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
>                       'key2': 'two',
>                       'key3': 'three'}
> 
>     def __getattr__(self, attr):
>         try:
>             return self._dict[attr]
>         except KeyError:
>             raise AttributeError, "getting attribute '%s'" % attr
> 
> >>> g = GetterTest()
> >>> g.key1
> 'one'
> >>> g.key2
> 'two'
> >>> g.key3
> 'three'
> >>> g.key4
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 8, in __getattr__
> AttributeError: getting attribute 'key4'

Yes, that's the straightforward solution. :-)

On the other hand, what I posted was a simplified example. Finally, I
will have several dictionary-like objects and not all of their items
should be accessible by get/set methods (only some of the corresponding
attributes belong to the public interface). I'm a bit afraid the overhead
of dynamically making all the decisions for every access might be slow
(though it may well be that all will be fast enough).

So to rephrase the problem a bit: I would like to generate simple getters
and setters with rather little decision overhead during the actual accesses.

Stefan


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 14 08:56:13 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 08:56:13 -0500
Subject: Python Version Strategy?
References: <xIYj8.16613$_L.7649@news1.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <a6qa5t$dgt$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <xIYj8.16613$_L.7649 at news1.bloor.is>,
Bo Vandenberg <bosahv at netscapenospam.net> wrote:
>
>I'm confused by what is going on with the python versions from various
>sources.
>
>I'm not even beginning to think of when the next version of python (3?)
>comes out.

Python 2.3 has been declared to be a "cleanup" release.  While there
will be some new features, the focus will be on getting all the new
features from 2.0 through 2.2 in better shape, sanding off rough edges,
and hopefully increasing performance a bit.

>Anyone think they have inside information on all this?

No inside information; this is mostly public.

>What's a forward thinking newbie, with no old code to support to do???

Depends on what you're trying to do.  If you're planning to distribute
your code to the general public, this is an issue you'll need to consider
carefully, and you might even consider going back to Python 1.5.2 (though
everyone here will recommend that you strenuously avoid that if
possible).  If you're mostly worried about the upgrade treadmill, your
best bet is to go ahead and use Python 2.2 for now and upgrade to 2.2.1
when that's released.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Tue Mar 12 13:12:36 2002
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:12:36 -0500
Subject: Manage Windows shortcut in Python
Message-ID: <3C8E4514.3E8D6684@impathnetworks.com>

Is there existing python package/module/function that can be used to
manage Windows file shortcuts?

I would need to be able to:

* create a shortcut to a known file
* read an existing shortcut and get the file it points to
* update the content of a shortcut file and change to file it points to.



Thanks for the help.

Pierre Rouleau



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 04:02:01 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:02:01 -0000
Subject: Python Web Programming Book?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCEB6@intrepid>

> From:	Michael Hall [SMTP:olc at ninti.com]
> I'm wondering if anyone can suggest the best (or a selection of the
> best) books available covering the use of Python in a web and database
> environment? It's OK if the book deals with other stuff, as long as its
> treatment of web programming and database integration is good. 
 
Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming" sounds *exactly* right for you - it
covers web programming (both client & server side) *and* database
programming in some depth.
 
> Is a book that also deals with Zope, Cheetah and Albatross or
> related topics (embedded Python, I suppose) asking just too
> much?
 
Yes. <wink>
 
> A good text will certainly cut down my newbie questions to this list.
> So far I have Mark Lutz' "Python Programming" and Andre Lessa's "Python
> Developer's Handbook" on my shortlist.
 
Mark Lutz's "Programming Python" covers the same ground as Lessa's book (GUI
programming, System programming, text processing etc.), and in more detail.
You don't need both, and I recommend the Lutz book.

It *also* covers web programming, but not to the same depth as Holden's book
does.

Oh yes, BTW, you might want David Beazley's "Python Essential Reference" on
your list, too.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar  4 19:30:54 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:30:54 -0500
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
In-Reply-To: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEFEOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Robin Becker]
> Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
> default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
> without drowning.

If you're using the PythonLabs 2.2 installer, click the "Advanced Options
..." button on the "Select Components" dialog.  On the "Advanced options"
dialog that pops up, select the "Non-Admin install" radio button and uncheck
the "Register file extensions" option.

I have no real idea what "the default" means to you, but that should cover
most plausible meanings <wink>.




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar  9 14:21:29 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:21:29 -0600
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <3C8A161D.50601@sneakemail.com>
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org>
        <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com>
        <3C895594.60601@sneakemail.com>
        <roy-0A7239.09044309032002@news1.panix.com>
        <3C8A161D.50601@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <15498.24761.570045.731534@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >>> Just out of curiosity, what does the rest of your group develop in
    >>> then?

    >> For internal tools, mostly perl.  For production code, mostly C/C++
    >> and TCL.

    Joshua> If your fellow developers think that makes Perl stable compared
    Joshua> to Python's rate of change, I think they're fooling themselves.

You just program in the stable subset. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 06:46:38 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:46:38 +0000
Subject: possible string.strip memory leakage
References: <mailman.1016063904.5367.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qb319ug5dfveiac0se54rs1asr62bo4ths@4ax.com>

Mike Brenner <mikeb at mitre.org> wrote:

>There might be a memory leak in string.strip. 
>
>I wrote a python function to strip blanks off the left and right of a string. When I discovered string.strip, I replaced the call to my version with string.split, and I got a large memory leakage. When I put the call back to calling my python function, the memory leakage went away.
>

I'd be more inclined to search for your newline leak.

--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From p.magwene at snet.net  Wed Mar 27 20:30:59 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul M)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:30:59 GMT
Subject: new style classes and  IDLE "grump"
Message-ID: <nnuo8.9673$6P3.2522482809@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>

In Python 2.2 when invoking the __init__ method of a new style (i.e. derived
from object) class in IDLE, the calling "signature" doesn't show up like it
does when instantiating a classic class object.

For example, try the following in IDLE:




This isn't really a bug, but a somewhat annoying feature of new classes in
the context of the IDLE interpretter.



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Mar 30 02:42:34 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:42:34 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA56915.62947DDC@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-01D300.23423429032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3CA56915.62947DDC at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> > I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
> > a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.
> 
> Outstanding!  I've been waiting and hoping for Booleans in Python since
> I first was introduced to it.

It's not an important issue to me, but I like the PEP.

> >     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
> >        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
> >        and C99).
> 
> I'm also a C, C++, and Java guy, but I think that True and False (rather
> than true and false) are more Python, as you say, given None.  Internal
> consistency makes more sense to me than matching other languages.

What he said.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 20 04:02:41 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:02:41 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a78uvi$ff1$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <a79j81$jj3mh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Fernando P?rez" <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a78uvi$ff1$1 at peabody.colorado.edu...
> Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>
> >
> > - Magnus (who also is a bit baffled as to why distutils doesn't
> > include an "uninstall" command, such as the one implemented by
> > Thomas Heller.)
>
> Amen. It's incredibly annoying to have to tell users that a simple python
> setup.py install does the trick as far as splattering files all over their
> system, but that there's no reasonable way of undoing the process easily.
>
I've just posted a little script to ActiveState's Python cookbook
which helps with this (at least on windows, but something similar
could be done on linux IMO):

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/117248

It builds a windows installer on the fly from a distutil's source
distribution, and runs this. This gives you uninstall support.
I've tested it with pychecker, anygui, twisted, and more packages
I don't remember at the moment.

My uninstall command Magnus menntions is a little hack only,
a real distutils uninstall command would probably require to
implement PEP 262 (database of installed packages) and let the
install command update this database.

Thomas




From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 22 17:51:21 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:51:21 -0800
Subject: Packaging tool
References: <mailman.1016831987.19520.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7gct0$kvd2a$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

mohamed lazreg
> I have been encouraged by the responses I got about my
> bug tracking system question... So now I am looking
> for a free packaging tool writeen in python (it has to
> be in python)... By a packaging tool I mean a tool
> that goes into a development area of a software, takes
> the correct files and binaries depending on some user
> parameters (configuration files) then creates a
> package ready to distribute... 
> 

There are several.  Look at freeze, py2exe to start

http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.28

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Fri Mar 22 23:48:37 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 20:48:37 -0800
Subject: Porting a Python app to IRIX -- need help
References: <KDLm8.103638$uA5.85596@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <m38z8jyjmi.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

"Paul F. Dubois" <dubois at users.sourceforge.net> writes:

> I am trying to get a Python-based app running on an SGI running IRIX 6.5. I
> am running into a problem involving some objects being compiled "n32" and
> others "o32". The linker refuses to link them.
> 
> I got pretty far by setting environment variable CC to "cc" but then it
> complained that the X11 library is o32. Can an SGI person tell me whether
> o32 or n32 is "normal" and what I tell the compiler to be sure I get that?
> 
> 
> 

You have to decide to use n32 or o32.  If you are not forced by some
legacy library to use o32, I recommend using n32.  Then you have to
decide which compiler to use.  

For o32 we used SGI's own compiler, with

  CC='/usr/bin/cc -o32'

But now that we are moving to n32, we are using gcc (which only knows
n32).  gcc is better for some open source libraries and applications.
  CC='gcc'

Having made those choices, you can compile the generic libraries you
will be needing (e.g., tiff, jpeg, png, zlib).  We do a lot of the
open source libraries.  Then build python itself.  Then continue on
with python add-on modules.

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 16:10:55 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:10:55 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
Message-ID: <OFF387FC88.89CF9760-ON88256B72.0073C80A@i2.com>

[Carel Fellinger]
> and define your classes to let __len__ return an Int object.
>
>     class List(list):
>         def __len__(self):
>             return Int(len(list(self)))
>
> trying it out, yack it doesn't work, len forces it into an int again:(
>
>     >>> spam = List("spam")
>     >>> type(spam.__len__())
>     <class '__main__.Int'>
>     >>> type(len(spam))
>     <type 'int'>
>
> I think this qualifies as a bug.


Here's a similar way to try out PEP 276.

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>
>>> from __future__ import generators
>>>
>>> class iint(int):
...   def __iter__(self):
...     i = 0
...     while i < self:
...       yield i
...       i += 1
...     raise StopIteration
...
>>> __len = len
>>>
>>> def len(seq):
...     return iint(__len(seq))
...
>>> l = ['a','b','c','d','e','f','g','h']
>>>
>>> for i in len(l):
...   if i % 2 == 0:
...     print l[i]
...
a
c
e
g
>>> # PEP 276 in action <wink>
...
>>>


BTW, if anyone knows how to add a method to class int (without resorting to
the C code), let me know.  I can't seem to get around int.__dict__ being a
dict-proxy that can't be subclassed, modified, etc.  Probably by design
<0.1 wink>.

Jim




From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar  6 19:51:59 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:51:59 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:21:31 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
> Speak for yourself, please.  To Steve Lamb, range(foo,bar,baz) may be 
> clear but it is not to me.  

    PEBKAC?

> And please avoid the ad-hominems ("too lazy to learn the language"), it 
> doesn't contribute to rational debate.

    Then why is it you're so gung-ho to make the language more complex when
there are several ways to what you want already in the language?

    Fine, don't like range(n-1,-1,-1) and don't feel like taking the <60s to
look it up?  I give you:

foo = range(n-1,0)
foo.reverse()
for x in foo:
    do_whatcha_like(x)

    Still too obtuse for you?

x = bar
while x > n:
    do_whatcha_like(x)
    x = x-1

    Anyone else care to jump in and show a different method?

    The point stands, this PEP is a specific language nit for a specific case
which is easily solvable by SEVERAL general constructs already available in
the language.  It is very limiting (only allowing one stepping, apparently)
and would be used only in very specific cases.  IMHO those should be avoided
like the plague for while they might be useful in a very limited sense a slew
of said specific case constructs creates a language that is large, bloated and
difficult to read overall because you have to learn how dozens of different
special case constructs work instead of, heaven forbid, just read the code and
be able to grok the meaning out of a small set of generic constructs.
Furthermore specific constructs for specific cases also blow maintainability
out of the water.  Take the famous example from Perl.  

if () {}
unless () {}
statement if ()
statement unless ()

    Only one of them is maintainable; the first.  Sure, the other's look nice
and sometimes unless (foo) is easier to figure out than if (!foo) but the
point is in the last three cases one cannot easily add an else unless they
rewrite it to the former.

    You have different ways of approaching your problem as it is.  You can
build a set any way you choose before tossing it into either of available
generic constructs.  There is no compelling reason to add one more other than
to appease one person's "It's not clear to me."  That, sir, is NOT enough.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  8 19:56:42 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:56:42 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <OFCD0E3B37.10C4F7A4-ON88256B77.0003FFEB@i2.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote previously:
|I just took a look at some random collection of python code I've got
laying
|around, totaling 6100 lines.  I've got 85 for loops, 12 of which use
range,
|the other 73 don't.  What's even more interesting is that of the 12
ranges,
|11 of them are in a single file; the only file of the collection which I
|didn't write (and which I consider pretty ugly code).

David Mertz:
|I decided to do the same test (more or less).  A current snapshot of
|my "Gnosis XML Utilities" has 3100 lines (written largely by me,
|with various contributors).
|
|There are *4* uses of [x]range() in 'for' loops.  One is a test case
|that just uses 'range(500)' to do something "a bunch of times".  One of
|the remaining three is 'range(1,len(fields),2)', which doesn't lend
|itself easily to the integer-iterator proposal.  There are *two*
|occurrences of 'range(len(member))', which I agree are slightly awkward
|to write and read.
|
|There are actually more uses of the range() function to indicate ranges
|of ASCII values than in the loop context, in this particular lump of
|code.


I just did the same for a small section of our code.  My quick little scan
turned up 293 uses of [x]range.  Most -- as in nearly all -- of them are in
for-loops and *are* used in conjunction with the indices of collections.

Our mileage might be different from others because our use of Jython is for
large-scale, shipping, production-level, commercial applications rather
than for small, throw-away scripts or core-language libraries.  Also (as
mentioned) we use Jython and have to deal with tables and other kinds of
collections written in Java outside the scope of core C-Python.  So I guess
we lose.

Jim Althoff
Senior Vice President
i2 Technologies, Inc.





From laytonjb at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar  5 18:49:17 2002
From: laytonjb at bellsouth.net (Jeff Layton)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:49:17 -0500
Subject: Newbie Python+XML Question
Message-ID: <3C85597D.D0DD25FE@bellsouth.net>

Hello,

   I'm fairly new to Python and I'm trying to understand and
run some else's code that uses XML (SAX). Here's the top
part of the code:

#

import socket
import getopt
import string
import xml.sax
#import xml.sax.saxutils
from xml.sax import saxutils
import sys


class XmlHandler(saxutils.DefultHandler):

        def __init__(self, argv, machines=[]):
                saxutils.DefultHandler.__init__(self)
                self.info = {}
                self.hostname = ''
                self.max_hostname_len = 0
                self.metrics = {}
                self.machines = machines


I tried following the SAX example at:

http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/xml-howto/xml-howto.html

to understand what the author was doing. However,
when I run the script as follows, it dies on me.

% python2.1 testg.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "testg.py", line 26, in ?
    class XmlHandler(saxutils.DefultHandler):
AttributeError: 'xml.sax.saxutils' module has no attribute 'DefultHandler'

   It looks like the SAX stuff is not getting imported correctly.
Does anyone feel like helping a lowly Newbie with this one?

TIA,

Jeff





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar 11 06:08:17 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:08:17 +0300
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
In-Reply-To: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de>; from rupert.kolb@med.uni-tuebingen.de on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:57:37AM +0100
References: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <20020311140817.L25769@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:57:37AM +0100, Rupert Kolb wrote:
> for weeks, I'm trying to reach the home page of the Gadfly DB.
>    http://www.chordate.com/gadfly.html doesn't work.
> Is this my fault?

   No, it is down for some time, and probably forever. The original author
stopped working on it.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar  7 08:12:43 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:12:43 GMT
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org> <7x1yexe2mi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <uy9h434dl.fsf@python.net>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> writes:

> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> > There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to further
> > enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if more of this
> > energy was directed at the overall environment (library, support tools,
> > installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.
> 
> While we're at it, am I the only one bothered by how unsharp the
> boundary is between the language and the environment?  I'd consider
> things like sys.exc_info to be part of the environment, but there's no
> other way to get the info.

You've lost me.  Care to elaborate?

Cheers,
M.
PS: bear in mind my fondness for common lisp -- I'm not convinced
    separation of language and environment is a good thing...

-- 
  languages shape the way we think, or don't.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 12:57:06 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:06 -0800
Subject: new to python - please help
In-Reply-To: <a6rbcn$ark$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1015958843.31303.python-list@python.org>
	<837koen7mq.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
	<a6rbcn$ark$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020315095706.1e9d7be5.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 14 Mar 2002 18:23:03 -0500
Aahz wrote:

> In article <837koen7mq.fsf at panacea.canonical.org>,
> Kragen Sitaker  <kragen at pobox.com> wrote:
> >"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:
> >>
> >> Rule #1:  Post real code.
> >> 
> >> I can't make heads or tails of your post because all
> >> that code is so broken.  :-/  It's got syntax errors.
> >
> >I feel like I just walked into comp.lang.perl.misc circa 1998.
> 
> There's a critical difference: how do you tell when Perl has a syntax
> error?  ;-)

Perl has syntax?

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar  6 08:53:41 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:53:41 +0900
Subject: Flushing stdout with raw_input - BUG
Message-ID: <q0ph8.54$_Z4.217@news.hananet.net>

raw_input and several modules that are part of the standard library that 
handle input and output with stdout and stdin (cmd.py) do NOT - I repeat - 
do NOT flush stdout before waiting for input.

No, I don't want to flush buffer stdout everytime I write to it. That is 
wasteful and inefficient. I want to flush the buffer when I am done writing 
to it, or when I make a call to raw_input(). (This has been brought up 
before a long time ago - why is it not fixed? Why does Guido want it to 
behave like this?)

If it is running with a terminal, then the underlying code (in C or the 
Kernel, I am not sure) will flush stdout before reading input. However, it 
does not automatically flush stdout before reading stdin if stdout and 
stdin are not terminals.

That means if I write a program that forks off another process that runs a 
python script that uses stdin and stdout, (using something like Popen3), 
then the conversation goes something like this:

parent: (Waiting patiently for some information from the child)
child: (wrote to stdout but didn't flush the buffer, so he doesn't send 
anything yet)
child: (expects input from stdin - which will be coming from the parent)
parent: (Waiting patiently for some information from the child)
programmer: (Going insane and pulling his hair out, screaming at the 
computer bloody murder) BLOODY MURDER! BLOODY MURDER!

If raw_input and other modules that ask for input would flush stdout before 
they wait for input, the conversation would look like this:

parent: (Waiting patiently for some information from the child)
child: (wrote to stdout and flushed the buffer)What is your command?
child: (expects input from stdin - which will be coming from the parent)
parent: (Receives the message)(writes to stdin of the child and flushes the 
buffer)HAHA! YOU ARE NOW UNDER MY CONTROL!
child: (receives the message through stdin)SYNTAX ERROR.
programmer: (Much more relaxed now...)Now that the program is working, I 
can get some sleep! Whew! (has pleasant dream of Python hacking...)

Should I turn on -u for the child script? That is silly. Just write 
raw_input properly, and make everyone happy. If you don't, I'll be *forced* 
to hack on the cpython code, and then you'll *really* regret it! =)

I am running Linux 2.4.14 and Python 2.1.2. I tested this bug in Python 2.2 
and it is still there.

I posted a bug about cmd not flushing the buffer to sourceforge. I will 
post another bug about raw_input not flushing the buffer. I will write 
another bug report about the unresponsiveness to bug reports as well, as 
there are a lot of bugs that aren't even addressed at sourceforge.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Examine your code. If you do not use raw_input, then 
flush your buffers! Otherwise, we will not be able to fork off your 
script/module and use it as a child process without -u.

Thank you.

Jonathan Gardner


From CutieGirl19 at aol.com  Sun Mar 17 21:53:16 2002
From: CutieGirl19 at aol.com (CutieGirl19 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:53:16 +0700 (ICT)
Subject: Hey! This is my new email address.
Message-ID: <200203180253.g2I2rGo41985@unescobkk.org>

Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by
 (CutieGirl19 at aol.com) on Monday, March 18, 2002 at 09:53:16
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From jschmitt at ati.com  Thu Mar  7 19:52:21 2002
From: jschmitt at ati.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:52:21 -0800 
Subject: reporting spam? (was RE: 5 dollar emails)
Message-ID: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE6BC@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com>

What happens with all the spam this group gets?  Does anyone bother
forwarding it to spam-fighting agencies?

For my own spam, I forward it to uce at ftc.gov.  I got that email address from
http://www.junkemail.org/scamspam/.  That email address is also listed on
the FTC web page: https://rn.ftc.gov/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

Since I use outlook to read the mailing list, I'm not sure if Outlook passes
enough header information to make it useful or even if the FTC does anything
about it anyway.  

John

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From richard at stockcontrol.net  Wed Mar 20 11:42:03 2002
From: richard at stockcontrol.net (Richard Walkington)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:42:03 +0000
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <3C98BBDB.4030407@stockcontrol.net>

Greg Weeks wrote:

>Is there a popular style document for Python?  I realize that there isn't a
>whole lot of scope for such a thing, but I wondered because of certain
>particular issues that came to mind.
>

There's this:

http://www.python.org/doc/essays/styleguide.html






From writeson at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  6 17:44:03 2002
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 14:44:03 -0800
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I've got an idea that anyone is welcome to shoot holes in as it's only
in the 'thought' process now. <g> I work for a company that develops
big content web sites using CGI's built with C++ as the primary
programming model. We also use Netscapes iPlanet as our web server.
I'm of the opinion this is akin to killing a fly with a sledgehammer
and am thinkin of some other mechanism. One thought that occurred to
me was to create a Python daemon that has a thead pool, a pipe pool
and all the CGI functionality built into classes that could be run by
a thread. Here's what I'm thinking, create an SAF (Server Application
Function) directive that will direct all the URL and POST information
down the pipe to the waiting Python daemon. The daemon kicks off a
thread from the pool to run the appropriate 'CGI' handler class. This
class directs all it's output into the same pipe back to the server.
The server forwards all this data to the users browser. Doing this
allows us a couple of things. By having a daemon the Python
interpreter is already in memory and doesn't have to be loaded. All of
the 'CGI' code is also in memory all the time, this would make
execution of that code pretty fast. We get to develop in Python, which
has a faster development cycle than C++ code. We can handle multiple
requests to the server because of the multiple pipes/threads in the
Python daemon. We don't have to work out any of the complexities of
connecting mod_python.so to iPlanet.

What do you think of this idea? Am I completely off base and missing
some other obvious solution?

Thanks in advance,
Doug


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 13:55:42 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:55:42 -0800
Subject: Boa v0.1.0-alpha + unrelated question
References: <a81r2k$8qr$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MPG.170e5873afa1f1c7989680@news.nwlink.com>

In article <a81r2k$8qr$1 at newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, 
buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk says...

> On an unrelated note; is there a better (more Pythonic / more efficient) way
> of swapping two rows in a Numeric array than the following.
> 
> def swapRows(array, index1, index2):
>     temp = array[index2, :].astype(type(array))
>     array[index2, :] = array[index1, :]
>     array[index1, :] = temp

Well, I don't know about Numeric specifically, but the 
'canonical' Python swap idiom would make it this:

def SwapRows(array, i1, i2):
    array[i1, :], array[i2, :] = array[i2, :], array[i1, :]

(In general, 'a, b = b, a' creates a temporary tuple, then 
unpacks it back to the original names but in reverse order.  
However, I can't swear that this will work with Numeric because 
I've never used Numeric, and it may be doing odd things that 
don't interact well with being packed into a temporary tuple.)

-- 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 09:23:49 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:23:49 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:04:31 EST."
             <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> 
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>  
            <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> 
Message-ID: <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> > [David Abrahams]
> > >       6) Should we eventually remove the inheritance relationship
> > >          between Int and Bool?
> > >
> > > I hope so. Bool is-a Int doesn't seem like the right relationship to
> > > me, unless perhaps we make Int is-a Long... naah, not even then.
> >
> > Hm.  In your favorite language bool is one of the integral types.
> > Doesn't that imply pretty much the same thing?
> 
> Well, I try not to play favorites <0.002 wink>, but the implicit
> conversion rules in C++ are admittedly and unfortunately liberal.
> However, bool is detectably NOT derived from int in C++:
> 
>     void f(int const&);
>     f(false); // error!
>     assert(boost::is_base_and_derived<int,bool>::value); // fails!

I don't understand this example, but I though int and bool weren't
considered classes in C++, so I'm not sure this matters.  I know you
don't care, but C99 *does* consider bool an integral type.

Another argument for deriving bool from int: implementation
inheritance.  A bool must behave just like an int, and this is most
easily accomplished this way: the bool type doesn't have
implementations for most operations: it inherits them from the int
type, which find a bool acceptable where an int is required.

> > Anyway, do you have a use case where it matters?
> 
> Given that Bool is immutable, I have no cases other than examples of
> type introspection which can be written to account for the fact that
> Bool is-a Int. However, it does make certain things trickier to get
> right:
> 
> numeric_types = [ Int, Long, Bool, Float, Complex ]
> for t in numeric_types:
>     if isinstance(x, t):
>         # Do something...
> 
> This sort of thing could depend on getting the order of the list right
> (I didn't).

Using isinstance() this way is usually bad.  And who knows that long
doesn't inherit from int?  (At some point in the future it may, or
they may become the same thing -- see PEP 237.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 18:38:10 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 18:38:10 -0500
Subject: Python quick setup URL for Linux setup?
References: <KUMp8.42208$1f1.3348682@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a886l2$t17$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <KUMp8.42208$1f1.3348682 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>,
Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Can anyone point me to a fasttrack URL/doc for setting up Python on Linux
>running KDE?  If it matters I'm using SUSE 7.3 Pro.

First of all, you should already have Python installed on your system
(although an older version).  What happens if you just type "python"?

As for compiling Python, just cd to the source directory and run the
following commands:

./configure
make
make test
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar  6 09:41:36 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:41:36 +0900
Subject: fork and thread and signal... oooooops
References: <87550ef1.0203050846.2166835e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lJph8.56$_Z4.249@news.hananet.net>

Haeyoung Kim scribbled with his keyboard:
> I know little about system programming, so my code has become a
> monster.

=)

> My situation is : 1) used /etc/init.d script functions such as daemon,
> killproc to start/stop python script.

Good ole' SysV.

> 2) python script is composed of two tasks. launching java server
> program and running script that connects that server to see if it's
> alive or dead.

Okay. If you want to see if something is alive or dead, the standard way is 
to check its pid file thing. That is a file that is stored in /var/run, and 
is usually named something like atd.pid (for atd, the 'at' daemon). So, if 
yu want to call your server hyjavad (please end with a 'd'), you will use a 
pid file at hyjavad.pid. That is assuming you only want one running at any 
time.

What do you do with the pid file? When the server starts up, he should 
immediately check to see if the pid file exists. If it does, he just dies. 
There is no reason to have two of the same daemons. If it isn't there, 
create it, and put your pid in there.

When your programs dies, by signal or whatnot, you need to be sure to get 
rid of the pid file, or else you cannot start a new server. I am not sure 
if it is best to do that by watching for signals or by using _atexit. I 
think most people use signals... correct me if I am wrong.

<snip code>

> 
> When shell script calls killproc(in init.d script), it sends signal,
> and kill server-using os.kill(java_server_pid)- and get out of
> os.wait() and died out generously - just my hope.

> But it betrayed my hope. it throws TypeError on os.wait(), killed
> anyway, but there are still my java program. :(
> I think signal doesn't call exitProgram() - why?

> Is there any clean solution to such a matter?

Okay, step back, take a deep breath. Let's think about what you want to do 
in careful detail.

You have a server. You want this server to stick around no matter what. 
That is, until you want to kill it. You need it to respond to different 
signals. What it does with those signals is up to your server.

Your init.d script will be written in sh, not python. It would be a 
horrible idea to write an init.d script in python. Look at other init.d 
scripts for examples on how to do this.

Now what do you need the python script for? Do you want to make a script 
that watches the server? Why?

Jonathan





From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar 10 16:55:42 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:55:42 +0100
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102138400.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <m3henoqh5u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <just-0D78C4.22554210032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <m3henoqh5u.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
 martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote:

> Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:
> 
> > Is there a way to disable all assert statements inside a module,
> > and without calling python with -O switch?
> 
> You can set __debug__ to 0 on the module level; this will disable
> assert statements inside this module.

That's what I thought, too, but you get a SyntaxError in 2.2.

Unhelpfully,
Just


From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Wed Mar 27 08:05:47 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:05:47 GMT
Subject: overwrite bytes in file
Message-ID: <3ca1c344.16256546@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
how can I overwrite certain bytes in a file (Win NT) and
keep the rest unchanged.
All open options are truncating the file.

Thanks
Marcus


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar  8 09:20:58 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 06:20:58 -0800
Subject: print >> details???
References: <a6aeg6$ddp$1@news2.iabg.de>
Message-ID: <7xlmd3gmyd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"spex66" <spex66 at web.de> writes:
> where does the second call of x.write() come from???
> 
> thanks for any hints

The print statement prints the stuff you tell it, then prints a newline.


From harald.keicher at web.de  Mon Mar 11 11:41:13 2002
From: harald.keicher at web.de (Harald)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:41:13 +0100
Subject: Newbie Python+Zope Question
Message-ID: <3c8cddf1@uni-wuerzburg.de>

Hello,

I'm fairly new to Python and I'm trying to instal a new version of zope 
(2.5.0) www.zope.org. At the moment I have running suse 7.2, python 2.1.2 
and zope 2.0. After 'tar xzvf Zope-2.xxxx.tgz' I started the compiling of 
the Zopeserver with 'python wo_pcgi.py'. I get this error messages:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deleting '.pyc' and '.pyo' files recursively under 
/usr/local/ZopePark/Testserver...
Done.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compiling python modules

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Building extension modules
cp ./lib/python/Setup20 ./lib/python/Setup

------------------------------------------------
Compiling extensions in lib/python
cp /usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile.pre.in .
cp: cannot stat `/usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile.pre.in': Datei oder 
Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "wo_pcgi.py", line 45, in ?
  File "wo_pcgi.py", line 33, in main
  File "/usr/local/ZopePark/Testserver/inst/build_extensions.py", line 30, 
in ?
    make('lib','python')
  File "/usr/local/ZopePark/Testserver/inst/do.py", line 61, in make
    do("cp %s ." % wheres_Makefile_pre_in())
  File "/usr/local/ZopePark/Testserver/inst/do.py", line 32, in do
    if i and picky: raise SystemError, i
SystemError: 256


Harry


From nospam at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 15 16:08:10 2002
From: nospam at bellsouth.net (Nospam)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:08:10 -0500
Subject: callling dynamically obtained win32api function
Message-ID: <3C9262BA.5060106@bellsouth.net>

I'm trying to understanding how to complete this following code:

import os
import win32api

GWL_EXSTYLE=-20
LWA_ALPHA=0x2

u32=win32api.LoadLibrary("user32.dll")
if u32:
     slwa=win32api.GetProcAddress(u32, "SetLayeredWindowAttributes");
     print type(slwa)
     # how do I call slwa here? I tried win32api.Apply ...
     win32api.FreeLibrary(u32)

I could not find an example of doing this in the docs.

Thanks



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 05:19:03 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 11:19:03 +0100
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9FBDB0.7E0BCA16@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <m3vgbj4oo8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Maybe it's just the ones who already knew how to do this, who
> knew how to do this.... ;-)

I guess Barry sort-of expected everybody to know that pointing to
foo.sf.net should trigger the "SF structure" synapse, so you'd
immediately know that the CVS can be reached through
sf.net/projects/foo, which has the CVS link in the standard location.

Regards,
Martin


From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar 10 02:02:28 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:02:28 +0100
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news>
Message-ID: <just-B1AE06.08022810032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <3c8a9261.149508269 at news>, brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:

> 2.1 and 2.2 both behave this way on two different (Windows) computers.
> What's going on here?

You've already received a bunch of answers but I see noone has quoted 
Tim's tutorial extension ("node 14"):
  http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html
(Which btw. is the first google hit if you search for "python floating 
point".)

Just


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 12 16:56:20 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 21:56:20 GMT
Subject: doctest Hassles!
References: <10d46bdc.0203120928.7e9c708b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6lti4$5r8$0@216.39.172.122>

On 12 Mar 2002 09:28:11 -0800, doug at pobox.com (Douglas Garstang) wrote:

>I posted a question yesterday about how to get doctest to interpret
>output from the execution of an external program. It was suggested I
>use:
>
>ls=os.popen("/bin/ls","r").read()
>
>instead of trying to use spawnv. Well, when I print the value of ls, I
>get:
Are you accounting for the newline that print supplies at the end?
>
>'
>    example.py
>    example.pyc
>    tester.py
>
>'
>
>Notice the blank line at the end. Where did that come from? There
>isn't a file with no name in my directory, so why would it print an
>empty line? Also, why is the output in ONE column instead of across
>the screen (as in a normal ls) when spawnv is used? All I did was
>print the output of the ls command, but the output is different.
You opened a pipe with popen to read the output of ls. Non-terminal
output defaults to single column. If you type 'ls | cat' in the shell
you will get one column too, unless you type 'ls -C | cat' to force
multicolumns.

>
>Now, in my code I have:
>
>def tester3():
>    """
>    >>> import os
>    >>> ls=os.popen("/bin/ls","r").read()
>    >>> print ls
>    example.py
>    example.pyc
>    tester.py
>
>    """
>
>It ignores the blank line at the end, as the docs say it will. On a
 ^^--what ignores what blank line? There's no executable code above.

try 'ls | hexdump -c' to see the data your pipe is getting fed.

>side note, I've had this problem before with python, trying to read
>text config files. As soon as it hit an empty line, reading would
>stop! Huh?
>
Post the actual code that behaves that way, and you may get an explanation.

>So, as a result, it ignores the empty line on the expect, but gets it
>on the output, and the test fails!
>
>What am I missing here? I would imagine that executing external
>programs is central to testing, but it seems to be _really_ difficult.

Posting specific actual failing code is the best way to get specific help.
Copy and paste from an interactive session, don't type an approximation.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Wed Mar 13 17:36:30 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:36:30 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
Message-ID: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

hi all,

never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking advice on how
to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need to find
standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am seeking
advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i am
wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the task.

i found this
http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/ScientificPythonManual/
but it seems to be unix only and i am on win32. as far as standard
deviations, i found this in an old ng post.

def stddev( *x ):
    if not x : return 0
    if ( len(x) == 1 ): x = x[0]
    m = mean( x )
    var = 0
    for n in x:
        n = n - m
        var = var + (n * n)
    return sqrt( var  / float(len(x)-1) )

There seems to be some stuff in scipy, but i am having trouble geting
through the docs.  also, do i want to look at numpy?

any suggestions?

thanks,

doug



*   all text processing thus far.
**  i think that is the correct term, item total correlations in other
words.
*** in general though nobody is going to live or die by what the state say,
so a small amount of error is not too big a deal.




From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Mar 14 15:07:26 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:07:26 -0800
Subject: XML-RPC Question
In-Reply-To: <cf0ad9fb.0203140407.2356290b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <005901c1cb93$dd2fe860$445d4540@Dell2>

Jesper Olsen wrote:
> Setting up a server goes something like this:
> 
>     from SimpleXMLRPCServer import *
> 
>     class MyClass:
>         def helloWorld(self):
>             return "Hello World!"
> 
>         def echo(self, text):
>             return text
> 
>     myob=MyClass()
> 
>     server=SimpleXMLRPCServer(("",50000))
>     server.register_function(myob.helloWorld)
>     server.serve_forever()

While that usage is correct, it is a bit odd. There are two other ways
that my might express this:

# No need for a class
def helloWorld(self):
    return "Hello World!"

server.register_function(helloWorld)

# Exports all of the methods in the class
class MyClass:
	def helloWorld(self):
		return "Hello World!"

	def echo(self, text):
		return text

server.register_instance(MyClass())

Of course I didn't test the above in any way :-)

> Is there something wrong here, or does SimpleXMLRPCServer, not support
> the listMethods() call?

I'm in the process of reorganizing it a bit, but here is a
SimpleXMLRPCServer implementation that does what you want: 

http://www.sweetapp.com/xmlrpc/

# Example

server = SimpleXMLRPCServer(("",50000))
# Or use the following construction if you want the server to also
# serve HTML documentation on that port (cool, eh?)
server = SimpleXMLRPCServer(("localhost", 8000),
SimpleXMLRPCAndDocsRequestHandler)

# Make system.listMethods and system.methodHelp work
server.register_introspection_functions()
# Make system.multicall work
server.register_multicall_functions()
# Install your own methods/instance here...

server.serve_forever()

This, or something like this, should make it into Python 2.3.

Cheers,
Brian




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 28 16:39:10 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 21:39:10 GMT
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>
Message-ID: <a802hu$fji$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:52:45 -0800, "Ken Peek" <Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.comNOSPAM> wrote:

>Well-- OK, my new ISP doesn't have a news server, but I found one
>that I could use to post this with.  If you reply to my email, do
>the 'nospam' thing first to my email address...
>
>I really am interested in what people think about this.  I have
>looked at all the other c.l.py posts on this construct, but I
>don't think anyone proposed this format.
>
>BTW-- the 'until' thing in the original letter was already posted,
>so please disregard that part of this post- (I left it in for
>accuracy.)
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Guido van Rossum
>  Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 04:45
>  To: Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com
>  Cc: Marc-Andre Lemburg
>  Subject: Re: PEP 0275
>
>  If you really want to discuss this, it's better to post to c.l.py.
>
>  --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Ken Peek [mailto:Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com]
>  Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 01:05
>  To: Marc-Andre Lemburg
>  Cc: Guido van Rossum
>  Subject: PEP 0275
>
>  How about:
>
>  match some_object:
>
>      ("I dream of Jeanie",):
>          print "with the light brown hair"
>
>      (1,3,5,7):
>
>          print "some odd numbers"
>
>          # 'break' leaves the entire match structure
>          if (time_to_leave): break
>
>          # 'continue' jumps to the first
>          # statement in the next clause
>          continue
>
>      (123,456,789):
>
>          print "some bigger numbers too"
>
>      (19,56,22):
>
>          print "some random numbers"
>
>      (1001,2002,3000):
>          # YES! It IS possible we want to do NOTHING!
>          pass
>
>      any:
>          print "we got here because there were no matches"
>
===========================================
[13:32] C:\pywk\misc>python case.py "I dream of Jeanie"
with the light brown hair

[13:36] C:\pywk\misc>python case.py 5
some odd numbers

[13:36] C:\pywk\misc>python case.py 456
some bigger numbers too

[13:36] C:\pywk\misc>python case.py 22
some random numbers

[13:36] C:\pywk\misc>python case.py 2002

[13:36] C:\pywk\misc>python case.py xxx
we got here because there were no matches

from following code:
===========================================
def main(some_object):
    class CkObjIn:
        """functor class: instance holds object for check if in passed sequence"""
        def __init__(self,obj):
            self.obj = obj
        def __call__(self, *seq):
            return self.obj in seq

    ## now use it
    ck = CkObjIn(some_object)    # instead of match line

    if ck("I dream of Jeanie",):
        print "with the light brown hair"

    elif ck(1,3,5,7):

        print "some odd numbers"

        ###### no: there should be now new meaning here ######
        # 'break' leaves the entire match structure
        # 'continue' jumps to the first
        # statement in the next clause
        ###### no: there should be now new meaning here ######

    elif ck(123,456,789):

        print "some bigger numbers too"

    elif ck(19,56,22):

        print "some random numbers"

    elif ck(1001,2002,3000):

        # YES! It IS possible we want to do NOTHING!
        pass

    else:
        print "we got here because there were no matches"

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    try:
        arg = int(sys.argv[1])
    except:
        arg = sys.argv[1]
    main(arg)
===========================================
[...]
>
>  Well, what do you think?
>
Kind of like it, but there would have to be some hot
performance advantage. IMO the aesthetics aren't that
much different from the above.

I definitiely wouldn't like break and continue to mean new things!

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 17:45:21 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:45:21 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015019284.27486.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-D1B99F.14452101032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015019284.27486.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> In other words, if I want to iterate up (smaller up to larger) I need to
> write the for-loop as
>     for smaller <= i <= larger:  # can *only* iterate up
> but if I want to iterate down (larger down to smaller) I need to write the
> for-loop with the reverse relational operators
>     for larger >= i >= smaller:  # can *only* iterate down
> 
> So if you want/need "from/to" functionality for an "interval" using the
> suggested for+relational idiom, you need to have two for-loops at hand,
> test the bounds, *and* pick the corresponding, correct for-loop (whose
> relational operators are in the correct direction).
> 
> Note that the existing range and xrange functions (when used in a
> for-loop), although requiring a test on the bounds in order to determine
> the correct order of the args, do *not* require the use of two for-loops in
> this context.
>     for i in range(n,m,step):  # can iterate up or down depending on
> n,m,step

Ok, I missed your point that the iteration order and not just the endpoints 
are important in your example.

But I think the current range system does too require two loops.
Again, let's consider closed intervals.

If from <= to:
     range(from,to+1)

If from > to:
     range(from,to-1,-1)

You could sort of avoid this by using a signum function:
     range(from,to+signum(from-to),signum(from-to))
but (besides being confusing) this breaks when from=to.

Anyway, while you may need two ranges, you don't have to have two separate 
for-loops over those ranges:
    if from <= to: range = [x for from <= x <= to]
    else: range = [x for from >= x >= to]
    for x in range:
        ...
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Mar 29 07:05:50 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:05:50 +0100
Subject: ActivePython 2.2 released!
References: <mailman.1017384524.14832.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a81lb4$cqs$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

For 2.1.2: Will there be an update option in the installer? I've installed
many external Python modules, which I do not want to reinstall when updating
from 2.1.1 to 2.1.2, if somehow possible.

Thanks and cheers
Franz GEIGER


"David Ascher" <DavidA at ActiveState.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1017384524.14832.python-list at python.org...
> We are pleased to announce that version 2.2 of ActivePython is now
> available for download from http://www.ActiveState.com/ActivePython
>
> I'll also take this opportunity to mention that we will shortly be
> issuing ActivePython 2.1.2 (a bug-fix release for Python 2.1), and
> ActivePython 2.2.1 (a bug fix release for Python 2.2 currently
> undergoing final testing).
>
> We're releasing 2.2 regardless of these upcoming releases because we'd
> like to solicit feedback on some of the changes we've made in
> ActivePython.  Specifically,
>
>   - the Windows installer is brand new, and should work on a wider
>     variety of platforms than before, including non-Administrator
> accounts.
>   - there is more documentation bundled, including several tutorials
>     which were not previously shipped (especially on Linux).
>   - We've made some changes to the Python Package Manager (PyPPM).
>
> The PPM modules currently available include:
>
>      * mxBase -- A set of utility classes including mxDateTime,
>        mxTextTools, mxStack, mxTools, and mxProxy
>      * Numeric -- high performance multi-dimensional array support
>      * PIL -- the standard Python Imaging Library
>      * PyChecker -- a code-proofing tool
>      * StandaloneZODB -- the persistence solution from Zope, now
>        available outside of Zope
>      * ZSI -- the reference SOAP library
>      * pyperl -- ActiveState's interface between Python and Perl
>
> Please submit email feedback to ActivePython-feedback at ActiveState.com,
> and file bugs against ActivePython at
> bugs.ActiveState.com/ActivePython.  We will be using that feedback to
> prepare the 2.2.1 and 2.1.2 releases.
>
> Thanks, and enjoy!
>
> -- David Ascher
>    ActiveState
>




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Mar 22 13:45:50 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 12:45:50 -0600
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2002-03-21 at 18:37, Andrew McNamara wrote: 
> >> The intention is that Albatross templates be valid XML - while Albatross
> >> will do the expected thing in the example you give above, it generally
> >> provides a "better" way, such as:
> >> 
> >>         <al-img expr="something">
> >
> >Do you mean that you have a template tag for every kind of tag for which
> >you would want to modify an attribute?  That's every single HTML tag --
> >IMG is hardly the only one.  A dynamic CSS class attribute, for
> >instance, or events (onMouseOver, etc), id tags, background colors...
> >there's a million possibilities.
> 
> No, we don't, although we're considering some options (such as abusing
> the XML namespace - for example: <al-img expr:src="something"> - thoughts?

I assume you are thinking that any al-* tag that isn't otherwise defined
would turn into a plain tag?  So you'd do 
<al-table expr:bgcolor="something"> ?  Seems kind of unXMLish as well. 

You could do something like: 

  <al-attr name="bgcolor" expr="something"><table>...</table></al-attr> 

That's very long, and you have to parse the entire document (I'm not
sure if you are doing that now).  Actually, it looks horrible and if I
was using such a language I would hate you.  Maybe: 

  <al-attr name="bgcolor" expr="something"/><table>...</table> 

I'm not sure if that's quite kosher or not... I guess there's nothing
really wrong about it, it just doesn't feel much like XML -- something
about binding two elements together when they are only next to each
other, not contained, seems odd.  And it still isn't pretty.

Of course there's the ZPT approach, which isn't bad, but then you might
as well use ZPT.  But I guess there's no reason you can't use something
like ZPT just for changing attributes, like: 

  <table al:bgcolor="something"> 

And then skip all the looping and such that ZPT does with attributes. 
You'd still have the worry about generating CSS and Javascript, though. 
Dave mentioned performance... doing a full XML parse is
performance-intensive, but you could fake it for this particular case --
you don't need to find the </table> tag or anything, you could probably
do it just with regexes.


I still think it's so much easier to use [], and make the system
orthogonal to XML or any other medium you might want to generate.  I
think it actually gives you better tool support as well.  

  Ian





From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sat Mar  2 01:04:23 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:04:23 -0800
Subject: newbie password question
References: <20020302003514.13693.00001116@mb-fw.aol.com>
Message-ID: <a5ott8.3vsf6hv.1@kserver.org>

On 02 Mar 2002 05:35:14 GMT, etrofsouls at aol.com (EtrOFsouls) wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <20020302003514.13693.00001116 at mb-fw.aol.com>:
 
> password = "foobar"
> 
> while password != "unicorn":
>       password = raw_input ("Password:")
> print "Welcome In"
> 
> I understand all this (thank god), but I'm having trouble figuring out how to
> get it to keep track of the number of guesses and then print a message such as
> "Halt, you do not have access!" if the number of guesses exceeds the limit. I'm
> learning this thru on-line tutorials and this was given as an excersise. All I
> have to work with is variables and statements such as...while, if, elif and
> else. 

How about something like this?

password = "foobar"

validated = 0
for attempt in range(1, 6):
      password = raw_input ("Password:")
      if password == "foobar":
          validated = 1
          print "Welcome In"
          break
if not validated:
    print "Sorry, Charlie!"



The variable validated keeps track of whether the person has yet managed to
successfully give the correct password. (In this example, the correct
password is "foobar".) The for loop lets the user try five times (try this
at an interactive prompt:

print range(1,6)

It will return a list of the integers [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. So basically, this
loop will try for times 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. The user gets five chances to get
the correct password..

If they manage to get the correct password, the validated flag is set to
"true" (i.e. the number 1), they are greeted with a "welcome", and the loop
breaks. If the loop runs all five times, and after that the validated flag
is still false, "Sorry, Charlie!".

Hope this helps,

-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/

"When introducing your puppy to an adult cat,
restrain the puppy, not the cat." -- Gwen Bailey,
_The Perfect Puppy: How to Raise a Well-behaved Dog_





From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar  3 00:21:07 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:21:07 -0800
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex@netWindows.org>
Message-ID: <a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1@kserver.org>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:34:11 -0500, Alex Russell <alex at netWindows.org>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex at netWindows.org>:

> I was required to purchase their Java book for a class, and not only was
> it poorly laid out, poorly executed, badly typeset, and cheaply made, it's
> index was utterly useless. Their C++ book wasn't much better. A friend had
> it laying about his place day and I spent some time looking through it,
> and after comparing it to Lippman/Lajoie, it's clear that it makes better
> tinder than a programming reference.

That's funny. I'm not familiar with the Lippman/Lajoie book, but I have a
LOT of C++ texts here at home. And I learned C++ from the Deitel and Deitel
book, and thought it was pretty good. Later, when I taught C++ I used it as
a reference, although I didn't select it as the text for my course. Most
people I know who are familiar with the Deitel and Deitel C++ text think it
is very good.

-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/

"When introducing your puppy to an adult cat,
restrain the puppy, not the cat." -- Gwen Bailey,
_The Perfect Puppy: How to Raise a Well-behaved Dog_



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Mar 26 22:19:52 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:19:52 -0500
Subject: xml config file to python object (fwd)
Message-ID: <YpTo8kKkXIvO092yn@gnosis.cx>                

|For full pickling support, you can chose between xml_pickle, from
|  http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-matters11.html

The best URL to start with is probably:

    http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_XML_Util.ANNOUNCE

Since I wrote the mentioned article, xml_pickle has gained quite a bit
new fancy stuff... xml_objectify to a lesser extent.  The original
poster seems to want something fairly close to what xml_objectify does,
IMO.

Yours, David...



From pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com  Mon Mar 18 07:01:47 2002
From: pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:01:47 GMT
Subject: Creating a module that uses itself
References: <2yfl8.113994$nl1.19520473@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <a7426e01nek@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LGkl8.115049$nl1.19726240@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Oops.

I accidentally tried to create an Image() object instead of a Photo()
object.  The interesting thing about this is that there *is no* Image
object.

(Sorry, all.)  It was just syntax error disguised as a logic error.

Back to sleep, all of you.  Looks like I could use some myself.  Thanks,
anyway....

-- Asheesh.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:47:51 -0500, Greg Krohn wrote:

> "Asheesh Laroia" <pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com> wrote in message
> news:2yfl8.113994$nl1.19520473 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
>> I'm writing a PageMaker-to-specialized-HTML module (henceforth
>> "pm2html").  In the module, I define the classes Article, Headline, and
>> Photo, among others.
>>
>> In the Article class, I want to have a Headline object.  Is this
>> possible?  Right now, ActivePython's PythonWin spits a syntax error at
>> me because the Headline class is not defined.
> 
> You should post your code and the actual error traceback. What you're
> describing should work -- at least they way that you've described it.
> Could there be a typo in your code?
> 
> This works for me:
> 
> class Article:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.headline = Headline()
> 
> class Headline:
>     pass
> 
> class Photo:
>     pass
> 
> a = Article()
> 
> 
> 
> greg


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar 22 00:28:15 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:28:15 -0800
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list@python.org> <Xns91D895B49DD95seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl> <u9l7h5s6jljpd6@corp.supernews.com> <slrna9m6sv.4s.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <eppstein-369618.21281521032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna9m6sv.4s.gerhard at lilith.my-fqdn.de>,
 Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:

> And nmap isn't a standard Unix tool either. On Unix, the only thing you can
> depend on is the presence of "uname", which exactly the right tool for the
> task. Only I don't know of an "uname" equivalent for Windows or Mac.

uname works just fine on Mac OS X.  It returns "Darwin".
Don't know of an equivalent for non-Unix versions of Mac OS, though.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From amylang at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 31 14:24:19 2002
From: amylang at zedat.fu-berlin.de (amy)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:24:19 +0200
Subject: selecting files from MySQL
Message-ID: <a87o30$qabnh$1@fu-berlin.de>

hello python-knowing,
can somebody help me to solve a little problem in a script, sc selecting
files from a mysql database?
so far, it doesn't want to work:


    if fileid['translation'] == 'none':
       actie = suchen fileid == 'none'
    elif fileid['translation'] == 'de-orig':
       actie = suchen fileid == 'de-orig'
    elif fileid['translation'] == 'nl-orig':
       actie = suchen fileid == 'nl-orig'
    elif fileid['translation'] == 'no-orig':
       actie = suchen fileid == 'no-orig'
    else:
       search = opt['such']


thanks a lot, if it's possible
amy




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 19:47:12 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 01:47:12 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a8706n$a3i$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <3CA75DAC.17647CEA@alcyone.com> <uaevld4cpcg1a7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaafbgg.8sf.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:30:31 -0500, John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>The trouble is that 'bool' as a data type **isn't** the standard
>name from mathematics.

Nor are int, float, dictionary, etc.

> Correct usage is something like:
>"Boolean logic manipulates truth values." That is, the data
>type is a truth value (see, for example, "truth table".) The usage
>in programming languages is simply incorrect linguistically.

No, it is just different from the maths usage.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sat Mar 23 13:33:47 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:33:47 +0200
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem simplified
In-Reply-To: <3C9CAFD2.13FE372D@hotmail.com>
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65@hotmail.com> <a7gdiv$1oc$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9C0B45.E3C51B0C@hotmail.com> <a7hap8$55f$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9CAFD2.13FE372D@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203231955570.24419-100000@cens.ioc.ee>


On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Marc wrote:

> I'm wondering whether or not this is a bug, which I would report, or
> whether I'm doing something incorrectly.

Though Python documentation on reload function warns about several
cavecats, I still could not explain the exceptions you report. But I bet
that this just is another undocumented cavecat with using reload (see
below). So, I think you should make a bug report.

After playing with your example, I concluded in the following rule (it
is possible that Python docs has relevant remarks, I just have not
found the right place yet):

  If you reload a module, then you must reload all other modules that
  use this module (usage in the sense that they define classes derived
  from a class defined in the first module). The order of reloading
  matters.

If you follow this rule, you'll have no trouble. 

Your example obviously fails to satisfy this rule because reload(c01)
forces reload(a01) but then also b01 must be reloaded. If you then
reload(b01), reload(a01) is forced but then also c01 must be reloaded. And
so on.. (in Estonia we would say "nokk lahti, saba kinni, saba lahti,
nokk kinni, nokk lahti, saba kinni, ...").

For a fix
1) remove reload(a01) statements in files b01.py and c01.py
2) if you modify a01.py, then execute
  reload(a01)
  reload(b01)
  reload(c01)
(in that order)
3) if you modify b01.py, then execute
  reload(b01)
(no need to reload a01 or c01)
4) if you modify c01.py, then execute
  reload(c01)
(no need to reload a01 or b01)

Regards,
	Pearu





From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar 12 22:01:23 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:01:23 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <mailman.1015979203.27977.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c8ec411$1_5@news.bluewin.ch>

David Ascher <DavidA at ActiveState.com> wrote in message
mailman.1015979203.27977.python-list at python.org...

>
> I agree w/ Cameron's response.  The article is remarkably technical for
> a trade press article.  If you want _technical_ questions, then I
> suggest you ask Mark (politely, preferably -- accusing Mark of doing PR
> is not going to get you anywhere =).
>

I find this comments quite out of target.

regards.




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Mar  5 10:30:41 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 16:30:41 +0100
Subject: ICU wrapper for Python?
References: <mailman.1012816506.11178.python-list@python.org> <m3g03kq9z8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015320253.14747.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4r8mz58wu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Fredrik Juhlin <laz at strakt.com> writes:

> However, I'm relying on the fact that since Python uses UCS-2 and ICU uses
> UTF-16 for their respective internal format, any Python unicode string can
> be used as an ICU unicode string. So for the collation I don't need to do
> any conversion between the two. To expose the codecs, one would have to
> convert the resulting strings from UTF-16 to UCS-2.

I'm a bit slow here: Why do you think Python uses UCS-2 and not
(simultaneously) UTF-16? What kind of conversion would you perform?

> If you're interested in what I have so far, I'll stick it on a web server
> for downloading. That'll have to wait until tonight though, since my
> latest version is at home.

That would be nice. If you don't mind, I'd also incorporate it into
the CVS of the i18n SIG (python-codecs.sf.net - it's a bit more
general than just codecs, hope that doesn't cause problems).

Regards,
Martin


From upersad at tstt.net.tt  Fri Mar 29 20:39:14 2002
From: upersad at tstt.net.tt (Umesh Persad)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:39:14 -0800
Subject: GUI programming
Message-ID: <001401c1d78b$b4264f00$bcc75ed1@umesh>

Hi,
 I am doing an assignment using python -
making a turkish checkers game.

---------------------------------------
|                                                         |
|                                                         |
|                                                         |
|            checker board area                |
---------------------------------------
|                                                         |
|          text fileds and buttons area       |
|                                                         |
---------------------------------------

I wanted to have a user interface where
I can draw the game board as well as take
in text input below the board with some text
felds and buttons. I see there are many GUI toolkits
available. I am wondering which one should I use
(tkinter, wxpython?) that will be simple enough
to get me up and running qiuckly. Also are there
any examples that I can look at? 

Also, if any one is familiar with Tkinter,
how do I put up a window with a size
that I want? Also how do I place a canvas
on the window at a predefined size?

Thanks a lot,
Umesh




From narnett at mccmedia.com  Tue Mar 26 18:15:05 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:15:05 -0800
Subject: Logging tracebacks to MySQL (was RE: hang in urllib.read()?)
In-Reply-To: <m31ye72h2u.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJOEEDJNAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Daniel Ortmann

[snip]

> Could this information help?
>
> The web page, "Known bugs in Python 2.2", says:
>
>     "The ftplib module's FTP class was supposed to default to paassive
>     mode.  Unfortunately it doesn't.  This means that urllib.urlopen()
>     doesn't work from inside most firewalls.  If you have this problem,
>     delete or comment out line 117, 'self.passiveserver = 0', from file
>     ftplib.py".

Nope, doesn't apply, but thanks.

At this point, my robot is being nicely stable, but now I'm starting to
think that the real problem was time-outs, but I sure don't see why they
would last for hours.  Aahz's suggestion of using timeoutsocket was right on
the mark.  I am definitely seeing timeouts now, which are recovering nicely
by simply starting over with urlopen.

I was confused by the fact that I thought that urlopen() establishes the
connection, but it now seems clear to me that it starts with read().

And after a fairly hideous time figuring out how to come up with an
appropriate error message and escape it for MySQL, timeouts are now even
being logged into a table.  If anyone has an example of getting a full
traceback into a MySQL field, I'd be grateful to see it.  What seemingly
should work seems to somehow recurse a few times, so that backslashes and
such get repeatedly escaped... at least in all the ways I could see to use
the traceback module.  I gave up and up and I'm using sys.exc_info()[:2]
instead, which is probably sufficient information.

Nick




From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar  3 12:44:27 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 09:44:27 -0800
Subject: Q: PEP progressions, and Rational type in particular?
References: <slrna7j5ia.ki5.brent_b@eris.io.com>
Message-ID: <a5tndr$bb1$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrna7j5ia.ki5.brent_b at eris.io.com>,
Brent Burton <brent_b at i_o.com> wrote:
>
>In the case of Rational types, Python 2.3 and 2.4 are referred to
>for __future__ and warning-by-default operation.  Does this mean
>2.2 has no rational type at all?

That's correct.  Unfortunately, there's no clear single roadmap that
explains what features are available in which version, but a good
approximation can be obtained by reading Andrew Kuchling's What's New
links at http://www.amk.ca/python/
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar  4 23:22:41 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:22:41 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <3C844811.AEC974E3@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Fernando P?rez wrote:
> 
> Let me try to organize my thoughts a bit on why I dislike this PEP so
> seriously. I have no problem with the "everything is a first-class object"
> philosophy in Python. But I feel that precisely what this pep introduces is a
> bad usage (IMO) of these ideas.

I'd also like to add this:

It's been suggested that this proposal doesn't ask us to
think of integers as being sequences, only as having
sequences implicitly associated with them.

But I don't agree. While it's certainly possible to
give any object an __iter__ method that does anything
you want, it doesn't mean you should!

To me, the __iter__ protocol is intended to be used when 
an object can reasonably be thought of as a sequence. 
That's actually *being* a sequence, not just "associated" 
with a sequence in some way.

Using the __iter__ protocol in the way suggested by
this PEP is abusing it, in my opinion.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From a at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 19:16:57 2002
From: a at yahoo.com (CSJedi)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:16:57 GMT
Subject: Python standards
Message-ID: <Z7Ug8.52655$Dh.5203103@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

Can someone tell me if Python has proprietary or consensus standards such as
ANSI?





From rupert.kolb at med.uni-tuebingen.de  Mon Mar 11 07:39:07 2002
From: rupert.kolb at med.uni-tuebingen.de (Rupert Kolb)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:39:07 +0100
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
References: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de> <20020311140817.L25769@phd.pp.ru>
Message-ID: <3C8CA56B.7050505@med.uni-tuebingen.de>

Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:57:37AM +0100, Rupert Kolb wrote:
> 
>>for weeks, I'm trying to reach the home page of the Gadfly DB.
>>   http://www.chordate.com/gadfly.html doesn't work.
>>Is this my fault?
>>
> 
>    No, it is down for some time, and probably forever. The original author
> stopped working on it.
>

Then the next questions:

Are the sources available somewhere?
Is there a new home page for Gadfly?
Is there anybody who will maintain such a page?
As far as I can remember there is some software, which needs gadfly.

-- 
Rupert Kolb





From matkin at iar.se  Mon Mar 18 07:16:18 2002
From: matkin at iar.se (Mats Kindahl)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 13:16:18 +0100
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
References: <mailman.1016065525.9745.python-list@python.org>  <umbsdr8kmj.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se> <4f5k8.435$zT5.13755@news.itd.umich.edu> <um8z8u88nd.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se> <um7koe88hl.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se> <vUpk8.473$zT5.15215@news.itd.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <umbsdmhy0d.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>

Michael George Lerner <mlerner at rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> writes:

> Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> wrote:
> > Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> writes:
> 
> >> Michael George Lerner <mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> writes:
> >> 
> >> > I wanted to match this:
> >> > 
> >> > (?P<foo>foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo)
> >> > 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >> That's what I get for not reading the manual... :/
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >  
> >      r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}$) *foo *$)')
> >                                      ^        ^
> >                                      !        !
> >             notice missing dollars --+--------+
> 
> Cool! .. but still not quite what I wanted ..
> 
> And that's what *I* get for snipping information out when I post a
> followup :/.  
> 
> In my original post, I mentioned that I wanted something like 
> r'(?P<start>start)(?P<foo>  foo  )(?P<end>end)' i.e. other patterns 
> on the same line before and after foo.

I might be misunderstanding something, but can't you just do...

    r = re.compile(r'(?P<start>start)'
                   + r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}end) *foo *)'
                   + r'(?P<end>end)')

...but now it's starting to be complicated. (Maybe you should use the
VERBOSE flag when compiling the pattern.)

Notice that you have to insert the end marker/pattern 'end' both
inside the lookahead pattern and after the actual match pattern.

Observe that for this to work, the 'start' pattern may not be a legal
prefix to the 'foo' pattern (this is not formally correct, but I
believe you get the meaning) nor may the 'end' pattern may not be a
legal suffix of the 'foo' pattern.

Good luck!

-- 
Mats Kindahl, IAR Systems, Sweden

Any opinions expressed are my own, not my company's.


From fdrake at acm.org  Sat Mar 23 17:24:21 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:24:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020323222421.8D11C28696@beowolf.fdrake.net>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/csstest-docs/

This is a test version of some style changes.  The changes are
localized to the navigation areas (I hope!), and probably only work
for the browsers with the most-compliant CSS2 implementations.

I've tested this with Mozilla 0.9.9 and MSIE 6 -- and it only worked
in Mozilla.  This isn't going to be usable until more browsers support
the CSS needed to make this work, but I've never seen this done
without frames before now (though I've played with the idea several
times over the last couple of years).

If you can't tell what the changes are, visit a page that needs to be
scrolled to see the whole thing, and try scrolling it!

Comments are welcome; send to python-docs at python.org.



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 07:45:31 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:45:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Gentle reminder for Python UK Conference, April 4 & 5.
References: <1015238517.16564.0.nnrp-01.c1c3e191@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns91C78164AF0Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Paul Brian" <paul1brian at yahoo.com> wrote in news:1015238517.16564.0.nnrp-
01.c1c3e191 at news.demon.co.uk:

> You even get access to the full ACCU conference,
> attended by luminaries such as Bjarne Stroustrup.
> 
So does anyone think we can convert Bjarne Stroustrup to evangelising 
Python instead of C++? Any chance we can change the ACCU into the APyCCU?

Seriously, I enjoyed last year's conference. Python programmers may even 
want to go to the other days: I see that at least one Python talk has 
managed to creep into the Saturday.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 13:38:22 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:38:22 -0800
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <mailman.1016313447.30968.python-list@python.org> <a7dos3$2apu$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7A1E.451453BA@ccvcorp.com>


Jim Dennis wrote:

>  Shouldn't all these (helpful) examples be using raw_input() rather
>  than input().  Do we really want the new user to be implicitly and
>  blindly using eval(raw_input())?

Yes, they should.  :)  The calls to input() should, in this case, all be
replaced by int(raw_input()), and optionally wrapped in a try/except and while
loop, so that the program can prompt again if a non-numeric value is given.  I
almost mentioned this in my earlier response, but decided not to overly confuse
the O.P. -- this essentially doubles the code size.

while sum < sum_stop:
    num = None
    while num is None:
        try:
            num = int(raw_input("Please enter the number:"))
        except ValueError:
            print "That's not a number.  Try again!"
    sum = sum + num    # could also be  sum += num
    print "The sum is", sum
print "and it is > 100"

Alternatively, instead of setting num to None and watching for that to change,
we could use a 'while 1:  try: ...  except: ... else: break'  structure.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From joonas at olen.to  Sun Mar  3 15:00:30 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:00:30 +0200
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
References: <0Xng8.33257$Ns4.1344751@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3C8280DE.6E67A05C@olen.to>

dix wrote:
> I would like also your advice to find a solution to convert these images in
> Acrobat PDF format: for the moment I just tought at the possibility to
> automate the COM interface of Acrobat Distiller from Python. Any other idea?

ReportLab should do the job.
http://www.reportlab.com/


From pobrien at orbtech.com  Sat Mar 30 09:13:26 2002
From: pobrien at orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:13:26 -0600
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <NBBBIOJPGKJEKIECEMCBMELCMKAA.pobrien@orbtech.com>

[Tim Peters]
>
> [Christian Tanzer]
> > ...
> > How will bool influence '__nonzero__'? Currently, Python insists that
> > '__nonzero__ should return an int'. Will this be changed to 'should
> > return a bool'?
>
> I hope so.
>
> > As that would break existing code, I hope not.
>
> No, "should" != "must".  Guido won't call code that returns an int here
> broken, although he might call it deprecated, and leave you wondering when
> the hammer will drop <wink>.

What is the likelihood that __nonzero__ could be renamed (at some point in
the future) to something a bit more intuitive, like __bool__? I know there
would be a lot of user code to change, but assuming one day the hammer will
drop and everyone's __nonzero__ will have to change to return a bool, I
wouldn't mind seeing the method renamed as well.  Or is this a lost cause at
this point?

---
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 17:43:25 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:43:25 -0600
Subject: Very small zlib/svg problem
In-Reply-To: <a7te9u$kah$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <a7te9u$kah$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <15522.19213.655102.927935@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Fedor> I use the zlib library to compress the svg file.

    Fedor> The problem is that when I try to view the SVGZ file with adobe SVG viewer
    Fedor> 3.0 or with the Batik SVG browser that it doesn't render and is
    Fedor> not able to read the SVGZ file as SVG.

I think you want to use the gzip module.  Something like

    import gzip
    f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "w")
    f.write(file('c:/test.svg').read())
    f.close()

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From grante at visi.com  Fri Mar 15 09:53:22 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:53:22 GMT
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com>

In article <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, Billy Ng wrote:

> I am trying to write a python program to verify the email
> address.  

What you're trying to do is pointless.  Whether it's evil or
not, I don't know, but one is suspicious.

Most servers either refuse the verify command or always return
affirmative.  Many modern servers will accept RCPT for invalid
addresses also.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did we bring enough
                                  at               BEEF JERKY?
                               visi.com            


From owen at xastrox.xwashingtonx.edu.invalid  Fri Mar  8 16:21:23 2002
From: owen at xastrox.xwashingtonx.edu.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:21:23 -0800
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6ba0l$33d8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14 at posting.google.com>,
 nbecker at fred.net (N Becker) wrote:

>Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
>a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).
>
>I wonder if there is anything new.  It looks to me that the 
>best answer is to use lambda.

There are two aspects to this sort of function, data you want to set up 
in advance and possibly data you want the function to see later but that 
you don't want to pass as an argument.

For the latter, you can take advantage of Python's new scoping rules. 
They have some quirks, but will probably do the job.

For setting up parameters in advance, there are several ways. My 
favorite is to use a callable class, and here is a lovely general one 
posted by Eric Brunel (if Eric is reading this: did you write it, if 
not, do you know who did?):
class GenericCallback:
  def __init__(self, callback, *firstArgs):
    self.__callback = callback
    self.__firstArgs = firstArgs
  def __call__(self, *lastArgs):
    apply(self.__callback, self.__firstArgs + lastArgs)

Certainly you can use lambdas, specifying default arguments for data you 
are evaluating at function creation time. Personally, I dislike lambdas; 
defining a named function works just as well, is usually easier to read, 
and allows more flexibility about what the function can do. Still, in 
either case those default arguments are somewhat ugly. It's hard to beat 
GenericCallback for clarity and simplicity.

-- Russell
-- 
Return      owen
address     astro
garbled     washington
in header   edu


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 19:49:14 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:49:14 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrna8de87.dqm.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:28:30 +0000, phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:08:57 -0800 (PST), Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
>>I am a little confused.
>>
>>Your proposal starts with the claim that people are looking for a natural way
>>to loop over a range of integers.
>
>How about:
>
>   for i = 1 to 10:
>
>or
>
>   for i is 1 to 10:
>
>I think these are both equally good and both much preferable over 
>the horrible
>
>   for 1 <= i <= 10:
>
>which I can only assume is someone's sick idea of a joke.
>
>This syntax could easily be extended, to allow a step other than 1:
>
>   for i = 1 to 10 step 3:

And extended in other ways, to make it similar to how range() and
xrange()  work.

   for i = 1 tobefore 10: print i,

would print 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

   for i = to 5: print i,

=> 0 1 2 3 4 5

   for i = tobefore 5: print i,

=> 0 1 2 3 4

   for 5: print "x",

=> x x x x x 

The extra syntax I am proposing is:

   for_stmt : for_line ":" suite ["else" ":" site]

   for_line : traditional_for_line /* as before */
            | to_for_line
            | repeat_for_line

   to_for_line : "for" target "=" to_expression

   to_expression : [expression] to_clause [step_clause]

   to_clause : "to" expression | "tobefore" expression

   step_clause : "step" expression

   repeat_for_line : "for" expression

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From mzou at bu.edu  Sun Mar 24 22:59:49 2002
From: mzou at bu.edu (ricky)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:59:49 -0500
Subject: question: python and UDP
References: <a7m5i4$6eb$1@news3.bu.edu> <3C9E9CFD.AC6A149B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7m7bo$a4q$1@news3.bu.edu>

how would i use the struct module?


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C9E9CFD.AC6A149B at engcorp.com...
> ricky wrote:
> >
> > I am trying to write a python program to connect to a proxy server which
> > takes the following header:
> > however, the proxy server doesn't seem to understand the header i sent
to
> > it.
> [...]
> > My question is how do i format the header so that proxy server would
> > understand the information I send to it.
> [...]
>
> Are you looking for the 'struct' module?  That should be enough to
> produce the header format you need.
>
> -Peter




From google at palydon.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 03:44:04 2002
From: google at palydon.demon.co.uk (Paul Lydon)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 00:44:04 -0800
Subject: Redirecting output in Windows NT
Message-ID: <96e9dee5.0203120044.33a1e19c@posting.google.com>

Running Python 2.2 on Windows NT 4 Workstation.
Suppose I have a Python program named 'splat.py' consisting of:
"print 'splat'".

If I type 'splat' and hit 'Enter', NT knows that it must run the
Python interpretor and I see 'splat' on the screen. If I redirect the
output to a file:
'splat > splat.txt', the resulting file is 0 bytes long and empty.

If I run the same program directly by typing 'python splat.py', again
I see 'splat' on the screen and when the output is redirected 'python
splat.py > splat.txt' I get a file containing the string 'splat' (as
you would expect).

Any ideas why the output redirection doesn't work in the first place?

Paul Lydon


From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Mar  7 01:46:30 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:46:30 -0000
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from popen
References: <slrna8bou9.1sd.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer> <Afph8.55$_Z4.84@news.hananet.net> <a65k6h$143m$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <slrna8d9ca.1ld.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>
Message-ID: <1015483588.481084@yasure>

Quoth Stefan Heimann <stefan.heimann at web.de>:
| Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote::
...
| I am on unix but I want it to work on windows, too.
|
|> ...  For example, suppose you record the output of "make", which
|> will be both output and error streams.  If you read them separately,
|> you won't be able to tell which compiler errors belong to which
|> make commands.
|
| That's what I need! Is it really so complicated? I think it should be
| common that someone needs to read stdout and stderr ordered by time.

I don't know.  You probably know more about Windows than I do.  But
yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it's impossible to get stdout and
stderr in the same pipe.

But maybe our UNIX background leads us to make this a more significant
problem than it is.  If you haven't already checked this, run "cvs status"
and whatever else you're interested in, and make sure you really have a
problem.  Once upon a time, I proposed that, now that you can write
"print >> sys.stderr", most of the print commands in the Python library
should probably be changed to do that, since they're mostly diagnostic
in nature.  That sounds obvious, but to my surprise a couple of people
here who use Windows a lot but are otherwise pretty computer literate
were very negative about it - apparently, stderr is generally awkward
and unpleasant on Windows.  At the same time, some of the UNIX facilities
for dealing with separate I/O streams are obviously missing.  So perhaps
on Windows one just doesn't write to stderr all that often, as there's
no point in the distinction.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Mar 28 10:05:05 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:05:05 +0300
Subject: Very small zlib/svg problem
In-Reply-To: <15523.12185.915711.200047@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>; from skip@pobox.com on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 08:58:33AM -0600
References: <a7te9u$kah$1@news.hccnet.nl> <15522.19213.655102.927935@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <20020328153415.D11101@phd.pp.ru> <15523.12185.915711.200047@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020328180505.L11101@phd.pp.ru>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 08:58:33AM -0600, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Oleg wrote:
>     f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "wb")
> 
> Patch submitted to force 'b'.  Feel free to check it out and comment.  In

   Thank you.

> particular, since I don't run on Windows I can't really test it out where it
> matters.

   I don't run Windows, too :)

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 22:35:54 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:35:54 GMT
Subject: newbie-ish question on exec statement
References: <mailman.1015899200.14905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8qttf.1hg.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1015899200.14905.python-list at python.org>, Gabe Newcomb wrote:
> Hi all:
> 	I'd appreciate any comments people might have on the limitations
> of using exec. Specifically, what I want to do is build function names
> dynamically and call them (don't ask why).

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.103.htp

> def my_function(arg1, arg2="", arg3=""):
> 	blah blah
> 
> exec "t = my_" + "function('\\\\machine\\share')"

It might be easier to debug if you use some of Python's
introspection features:

destName = "t"
funcName = "my_" + "function"
f = locals()["my_function"]
locals()[destName] = f('\\\\machine\\share')

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm rated PG-34!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar 24 23:05:42 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:05:42 +1100
Subject: 2.2 open
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A235@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Greg Ewing [mailto:greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz]
> 
> Robin Becker wrote:
> > 
> > So the question now is, how do I tell if __import__ is the 
> built in one
> > even if the import system is not fully initialized.
> 
> You could compare its type with what you really
> should have been comparing it with in the
> first place:
> 
>   import types
>   if type(__import__) == types.BuiltinFunctionType:
>     ...

Except that this will only tell you that it's of the same type as the
original __import__ - someone still may have replaced the builtin __import__
before you get a go at it.

In general, it shouldn't matter whether it is the builtin __import__ or not
- why do you need to know? If you wish to replace it with your own version,
you should just capture the original version and replace it with your own.
To do this in a thread-safe manner you should probably use the canonical
"swap" idiom ...

import __builtin__

def _my_import (name, globals, locals, fromlist):
    pass

_orig_import, __builtin__.__import__ = __builtin__.__import__, _my_import

print _orig_import
print __builtin__.__import__

Tim Delaney



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 25 17:51:36 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:51:36 +1100
Subject: files and reading from them
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A238@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Sheila King [mailto:usenet at thinkspot.net]
> 
> Technically, you can accomplish this by
> 
> x = eval(file.readline())
> 
> if you know for a fact that your line of text from the file will be a
> correctly formatted, string representation of a dictionary, 
> and that you can depend on that 100%, no ifs, ands or buts.

Also, only if for each item in the dictionary (key and value)
eval(repr(item)) returns an object equivalent to item. For builtins, this is
the case - for user-defined classes it often (usually even) isn't.

Tim Delaney



From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Wed Mar 20 13:19:51 2002
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:19:51 +0100
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3c74a81c$0$141$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee> <3C74DD65.3060000@thinkware.se> <m3heoa93gs.fsf@ns.bagley.org> <a53fok$cfg$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <m38z9m8wqh.fsf@ns.bagley.org> <a5697i$3or$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <m3pu2x6m7t.fsf@ns.bagley.org>
Message-ID: <a7ajs2$d70$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

<..snip...>
> > For comparison of utilization level still other types of programs are
> > needed. In this type of comparison I expect even more discussion on the
> > "rules"; Are you allowed to use the plain language only, or also the
> > batteries which are included or everything on CPAN like archives; Are
> > packages which are used included in the line count; etcetera.
>
> I agree. Even things like a strong, helpful community for support are
> important for being productive. Python certainly has that. But I'm not
> sure how to measure that fairly :-)
>
> cheers,
> doug
> --
> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/contact.shtml

In a recent thread (see below) the wc utility was shown both in c and
python. These utilities are relatively well defined and one step larger than
the current shootout programs. They might be useful for benchmarking
purposes.

regards Gerrit

www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch

---begin included message---
Re: Book Draft Available: Text Processing in Python
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
In article <mailman.1015993462.32701.python-list at python.org>,
 David Mertz, Ph.D. wrote:

> Pythonistas:

> As some folks know, I am working on a book called _Text Processing in
> Python_.  With the gracious permission of my publisher, Addison Wesley,
> I am hereby making in-progress drafts of the book available to the
> Python community.  It's about half done right now, but that will
> increase over time.

> Take a look at the book URL: http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/

> I welcome any comments or feedback the Python community has about my
> book.

> Yours, David...

 I was glancing through it and stopped when I read your word
 counter (with no support for the command line options).  I just
 had to do one to emulate the GNU wc utility as closely as I can
 in one quick session.

 Below is a somewhat more faithful rendering of the GNU wc command.
 Although it's about 120 lines long, almost forty of those are
 blank lines, docstrings, or comments.  In most cases it gives output
 that is identical to GNU wc (including the character spacing).
 The only discrepancies I've seen are in the -L (--max-line-length)
 calculation (particularly on binary files).

 It's pedagogical value is more in the use of the getopts module
 and possibly in file iteration (for line in file: ...).  The text
 processing being done here is trivial.  There's also a little bit
 of exception handling, and a minimal amount of error avoidance ---
 since Python will allow me to open a directory but will complain if
 I try to read lines therefrom).

 It is mildly interesting that this Python implementation of wc
 is only about a third the length of the GNU version from the
 text utils package (wc.c is 371 lines).  Actually counting words
 and characters the Python version is only about half the length.
 (Glancing at the sources I see that I missed support for the
 POSIXLY_CORRECT environment variable -- which modifies, or uglifies
 if you prefer, the output format; I could add that in a few lines).

 David, you're welcome to use this script as an example.  Perhaps
 you could list this as an example of how 14 lines of simple, focused
 code grows to 140 lines by the time we add option handling, help
 and error messages, exception handling and error avoidance, and all
 that other stuff.  (If you really want to scare people you could
 include the wc.c from the GNU textutils package by way of comparison).

#!/usr/bin/env python2.2
import sys, os
""" wc: Emulate GNU wc (word count) """

help = '''Usage: wc [OPTION]... [FILE]...
Print line, word, and byte counts for each FILE, and a total line if
more than one FILE is specified.  With no FILE, or when FILE is -,
read standard input.
  -c, --bytes, --chars   print the byte counts
  -l, --lines            print the newline counts
  -L, --max-line-length  print the length of the longest line
  -w, --words            print the word counts
      --help             display this help and exit
      --version          output version information and exit
Report bugs to <jimd+python at starshine.org>'''

version = """Python word count: wc(1) emulation by James T. Dennis
 version 0.1"""

def options():
"""Process command line options"""
import getopt
short = "clLw"
long  = ('bytes', 'chars', 'lines', 'max-line-length',
'words', 'help', 'version')
try:
opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], short, long)
except getopt.GetoptError,err:
msg = "wc: invalid option \nTry `wc --help' for more information."
print >> sys.stderr, sys.argv[0], err
print >> sys.stderr, msg
sys.exit(1)
return opts, args

def count(f=None):
"""Count and return words, chars, lines, and maxlength"""
# We count them all, since that's and much easier than alot of
# conditional logic to decide what to count.
# We return it all, and main() can decide what to return.
lines = words = chars = maxline = 0
if f == None: file = sys.stdin
else:
if os.path.isdir(f):
print >> sys.stderr, "wc: %s: Is a directory" % f
return lines, words, chars, maxline
try:
file = open(f,'r')
except IOError:
print >> sys.stderr, "Error opening:", f
return lines, words, chars, maxline
# If we get this far, we can count stuff
for line in file:
length = len(line)
lines += 1
chars += length
words += len(line.split())
if length - 1 > maxline: maxline = length - 1
# GNU wc doesn't count line terminator in maxlength?
# +++ binary files anve much different line length semantics!
return lines, words, chars, maxline

def printcount(flags, totals, filename=None):
"""Print counts for each file and for the grand totals
   takes two 4-tuples, the flags for which items to print, and
   the total lines, words, characters, and max-line-length
   and an optional filename"""
if filename == None: filename = ""
dolines, dochars, dowords, domaxln = flags
l, w, c, m = totals
print "", # GNU wc prints one leading space?
if dolines: print "%6d" % l,
if dowords: print "%7d" % w,
if dochars: print "%7d" % c,
if domaxln: print "%7d" % m,
print filename

if __name__ == "__main__":
opts, args = options()
dolines = dochars = dowords = domaxln = 0
for opt,arg in opts:
if opt == '--help':
print help
sys.exit()
elif opt == '--version':
print version
sys.exit()
elif opt in ('-l', '--lines'): dolines = 1
elif opt in ('-c', '--chars', '--bytes'): dochars = 1
elif opt in ('-w', '--words'): dowords = 1
elif opt in ('-L', '--max-line-length'): domaxln = 1

if dolines + dochars + dowords + domaxln == 0:
# None specified so default is to do lines, chars, and words
dolines = dochars = dowords = 1
# Else we do only the ones that are specified
# GNU wc always prints the stats in the same order, regardless
# of the order of the options/switches.
printflags = (dolines, dochars, dowords, domaxln)

if not args:
# No files named: so just do stdin
# No grand totals. and no filename
l, w, c, m = count()
printcount (printflags, (l,w,c,m))
else: # Else we do each file and keep track of grand totals
all_lines = all_words = all_chars = longest_line = 0
files_processed = 0
for i in args:
if i == '-': l, w, c, m = count()
else: l, w, c, m = count(i)
all_lines += l
all_words += w
all_chars += c
if m > longest_line: longest_line = m
printcount (printflags, (l,w,c,m), i)
files_processed += 1
if files_processed > 1: # Print totals
totals = (all_lines, all_words, all_chars, longest_line)
printcount (printflags, totals, "total")
---end included message---




From precision at devrandom.net  Fri Mar 15 20:47:37 2002
From: precision at devrandom.net (Uriah Welcome)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 17:47:37 -0800
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>	<CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com>	<trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1016218106.2021.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65c17385.0203151747.2414a312@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016218106.2021.python-list at python.org>...
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:01 GMT
> Billy Ng wrote:
> 
> > Nothing evil here.  I have 2 reasons why I would do this program.  Firs,
>  it
> > is my TCP/IP concept class's project.  Basically, I want to try what the
> > book tells in to code, but I notice it does not work the way it says in
>  so
> > many commercial SMTP servers.  Second, I have been unemployed for about 4
> > months.  My friend's company needs a program to verify the users who
> > registered to their service.  They found out many registered users were
> > using fake addresses.  I just want to try this program to see if I will
>  get
> > a job there.  That's all!  I really do appreciate if you would provide
>  any
> > info for me to complete this project.
> 
> Why not do like many others do: send a confirmation email to the address
> and require a reply from that address to complete registration.


Well.. the way that Exim and other MTAs do address verification is to
fake a bounce to that user ala...

mail from: <>
rcpt to: <emailaddress>

And check for a result.  You said you already thought about this, but
besides a confirmation email this is probably the best way.  Since if
they can't recieve bounces they're breaking RFC anyways. Unfortunately
people like yahoo.com and others return okay for _any_ address.

In short there is no fool proof way to do this.


From dragon at china.org  Tue Mar 26 00:25:28 2002
From: dragon at china.org (Qiang.JL)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:25:28 GMT
Subject: beginner question
Message-ID: <cDTn8.2512$RQq.540@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

for this line:

>>> g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split())) or (lambda y: 'second')

now by calling g(str(something)) make sure i always pass a string to the
function(ignore exception if improper stuff in str). I want to know what
parameter i can pass to the lambda function so that the first condition
false then second condition get executed?
or as long as i pass a string,it's always true for the first condition?

Q.




From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sat Mar 16 16:10:52 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:10:52 -0800
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>
Message-ID: <a6vg8t.3vsb2kl.1@kserver.org>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:45:30 +0300, "Jeffrey-man" <i-have at no.mail> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <a70at9$2mec$1 at gavrilo.mtu.ru>:

> 
> sum_stop = 100
> num = input("Please enter the number: ")
> 
> for sum in range(num+num,sum_stop):
>     print "Now the sum is", num+num
>     sleep(1)
> 
> print "The sum is >/= 100!"


You need some type of loop. Also, you need to initialize your sum.

sum_stop = 100
sum = 0

while (sum < sum_stop):
    < your code for getting the input >
    < and incrementing the sum >
    < goes here >

print "The sum is ", sum


HTH,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 23:01:20 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 04:01:20 GMT
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1016060003.27308.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6p7ag$uv7$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:51:43 -0700, "Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote:

>> From: Bengt Richter [mailto:bokr at oz.net]=20
[... something to make Andreas' code deliver escaped quotes ...]
[...]
>>                AND      name =3D 'O\'Hara'
>
>Except that's not how SQL is quoted (It should have been 'O''Hara').
>Besides, anyone not using bound variables must be crazy <wink>
>
The escaping is Ok either way for MySQL, IIRC ;-) The class is kind of funny the
way it wound up (irrelevant wrapper for a variable in a loop). I was thinking something
bigger, but then I wanted a quick and dirty demo to make the given formatting code work
unchanged.

But if there's a place for config data that connects to a particular database engine,
it could probably also have the name of a module with suitable encoding functions?

Or is the problem connecting to a totally unknown end database engine type? ODBC?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Mon Mar 25 21:35:04 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:35:04 GMT
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <etnv9u45m8vb9g4er68ktvafsrlk3scrq9@4ax.com>

>I've some problem with identing code. I'm allright with the example.
>But, I think it's important to have an "end" building block like "!:"
>What do you think about that?

I recommend you congregate with link-minded folks and create your
_own_ programming language. What you've just described simply isn't
what Python is all about.

>Why not Python?

Because Guido didn't want to and developed a following that agreed
with him. What resulted is something that the following agrees should
be the way it is. Ergo, it's not there because it's not, and we don't
like it.

C//



From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sat Mar  2 15:33:40 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:33:40 -0500
Subject: C/C++ to Python translater
References: <5e8bd451.0203011049.5d12d3a2@posting.google.com> <3C811653.871C5BEF@tds.net>
Message-ID: <a5rcr0$6lj$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Edward K. Ream" <edream at tds.net> wrote in message
news:3C811653.871C5BEF at tds.net...
> leo.py contains a script called c2py.py that I have used to translate
> all my C++ code to Python.  It does about 80% of the work and is mostly
> intended to be run from inside Leo.  IIRC there is another entry in
> c2py.py script to translate "exterior" files and this can be run from
> idle, say.  Munging source to Python is actually remarkably easy to do.
>
> You can download leo.py v1.0 at:
>
>   http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
>
> One of these days I'll get around to cleaning it up and making a proper
> distribution of it.  Let me know if you have problems with c2py: it will
> help me clean up the rough edges.

Biggest problem I'm having is that I can't find it.
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/leo/leo-1.0.zip doesn't contain a file
called c2py.py. Did you have something else in mind?





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Mar  9 00:27:13 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 00:27:13 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (fwd)
Message-ID: <x0Zi8kKkX0rL092yn@gnosis.cx>                

I observed:
||"Gnosis XML Utilities" has 3100 lines (written largely by me,
||with various contributors).
||There are *4* uses of [x]range() in 'for' loops.  One is a test case
||that just uses 'range(500)' to do something "a bunch of times".

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
|I just did the same for a small section of our code.  My quick little scan
|turned up 293 uses of [x]range.
|Our mileage might be different from others because our use of Jython is for
|large-scale, shipping, production-level, commercial applications rather
|than for small, throw-away scripts or core-language libraries.  Also (as
|mentioned) we use Jython and have to deal with tables

My utility package is certainly not "throw-away scripts".  And while it
is generally tested with CPython, there's no reason it shouldn't work
equally well with Jython.  So some of that difference isn't really
germane.

The issue about iterating through data tables might be the key.  But I
think even then, my own style would generally not use range() iteration.
For example, one might write (very simplified):

    rows = dbquery(sql)
    for i in range(len(rows)):
        print i, rows[i]

But I would probably approach this more like:

    i = 0
    for row in dbquery(sql):
        print i, row
        i += 1

It feels cleaner to me to iterate through the actual collection, rather
than numerically over its length... even if I am then interested keeping
track of the number.  If one fetches rows incrementally, I would still
probably go for a 'while 1:' style.

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Wed Mar 27 08:26:34 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:26:34 -0600
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <006901c1d593$1d0721c0$0101010a@local>

Perhaps I'm stupid... what the heck is wrong with the OP's message?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wojtek Walczak" <gminick at hacker.pl>


> ** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
> ** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.

This is much ruder than normal for this group.  Aren't we the kinder,
gentler USENET?

> Dnia Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:52:25 +0100, FREDRIK HULDTGREN napisa?(a):
> >I want to generate random numbers, very large random numbers. If I use
> >randrange() I get an out of bounds error since it only supports numbers
> >up to (2**31)-1. However, I can use uniform(), but then I get the number
> >returned in 7.9655120654553743e+018 or something simaler, and I would
> >rather have it in a "L" format(796551206545537430183218312890381031L).
> >How do I do this?
> <http://hacker.pl/gminick/pliki/veryrand.py>
> HTH.
>
> --
> [ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://hacker.pl/gminick/ ]
> [ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) klub.chip.pl ]
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>




From python at rcn.com  Thu Mar  7 01:24:15 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:24:15 -0500
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6712u$lk9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list at python.org...
>
> There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to further
> enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if more of this
> energy was directed at the overall environment (library, support tools,
> installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.

I certainly agree that effort needs to be put into the library, etc.

However, I would like to defend the PEP writers guild on a few points:

1.  Writing a PEP is a disciplined activity that involves completely
     thinking our design choices, rallying public opinion, collecting
     all points of view for and against, and documenting all of that
     information in a single, version controlled, standard format
     document in a public place for everyone to study, ridicule,
     or on extremely rare occassions, adopt.

     In other words, PEP writing is contributing to science and is
     not a wasted effort even if the idea never gets adopted.

     While some people groan whenever a new PEP appears, I think
      it's a good sign, rather than bad.  It means we have smart people
      who care and are willing to engage in public collaboration instead
      of sitting on the sides slinging mud like other language forums (not
      to mention any one particular four letter scripting language).

2.  Having several PEPs relating to loop counters suggests that either
     we're all nuts or that maybe this is a constant source of irritation
     and that any one of the proposals may be fixing a real problem.
     Note, the two options are not mutually exclusive; perhaps, we're
     all nuts AND Python needs a loop counter solution.

     My own recommendation is not entirely over top:
             indexed( collection, start=0, limit=None )

     One built-in function to improve readability and reliability while
     solving the problem forever.  Returning a generator is a low
     over-head, lazy solution compared to PEP 212 creating a huge
     new list of tuples.  The real question is why there is so much
     inertia on getting this one solved.

Please excuse the diatribe.  Now that's out of my system, here are
are few random thoughts on the PEPs:

237 Unifying longs and shorts -- I sure hope this gets finished
       for 2.3. It is long overdue (no pun intended)
246 Object Adaptation -- This has the potential to be a profound
       improvement while not getting in the way of people who
       don't need it.
265 Sorting Dictionaries by Value -- I don't think the world would
       come to an end if this were adopted.  It's kinda nice, very
       easy to implement, and is invisible to people who don't need it.
       What's all the fuss about?  Let's just do it.
266, 267 -- Optimized Python good.  Slow Python bad.
269 Pgen module -- I see the upside.  Is there a downside?
270 Uniq method for list objects -- Same comment as for 265
274 Dictionary comprehensions -- Sounds cool but is not a compelling
       advantage over dict( [(k,f(v) for k in alist] ).  Hey, it only saves
       fewer than ten characters and no lines.
275 Switching on Multiple Values -- Wouldn't be surprised if someone
       told me this optimization were already in place.  Which Pythonista
       is going to stand-up and demand that we keep a slower implementation'
       just because he or she hates the concept of change.
279 Enhanced Generators (my PEP) -- indexed() is WAY cool -- let's do it.
       Okay, the x-functions may belong in a separate module.  Generator
       Comprehensions are loved by more than few, are trivially easy to
implement,
       and invisible to those who don't care for them.  And about .next(arg)
and
       .throw(exception) -- yawn.
212, 276, 279(indexed), 281, and 284.  Any of the above, all of the above,
       pick one and solve a real problem.

My overall point is that it would be unhealthy to adopt an anti-pep attitude
and that many of the PEPs are darned useful and not at all hurtful.

This point may not apply to you.  When I wrote 279, some replies were
supportive,
some were inquisitive, some were analytical, some were helpful, but there
were
some that had a scary attitude along the lines of:
     "I don't care if the idea is good,
      I will fight further changes till my dying breath"

That being said, Skip is right.  The libraries, documentation, and patches
need work.  I did not miss his point.

G' nite,


Raymond Hettinger








From alf at logilab.fr  Fri Mar 29 07:45:50 2002
From: alf at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:45:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: optional pass? (was Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and  links (Mar 26))
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA35C49.31397789@ndh.net> <slrnaa6sfc.d02.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnaa8ofu.jq7.alf@sagittarius.logilab.fr>

In article <slrnaa6sfc.d02.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>, phil hunt wrote:
> True, but i still have to remove the passes when i want to implement 
> the class.

Why don't you put a docstring ? It will help you document precisely what
you had in mind when writing the class, and you can keep it when you
actually write the code. 

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Tue Mar  5 14:41:26 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:41:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <87sn7g2stu.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna884ch.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <87it8b1xzt.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <slrna8a7r6.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On 05 Mar 2002 12:42:30 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>
>Verbatim low-level I/O would be permitted.  I would want them to be
>restricted from being displayed literally by character-oriented
>high-level functions like print, though.  If you want to use print on
>them, convert them to something with an appropriate (trivial) __repr__
>operation defined.
...
>Thus by the principle of "least surprise" I advocate that raw string
>users use a new notation, while the (much larger and much more naive)
>group of people who expect
>
>    print 'And now for something completely different'
>
>to do something useful would notice nothing new.
>
>    print o'she turned me into a newt ... it got bettah'
>
>would either error (my preference) or print something like a tuple of
>integers.
>
>    print Code86(o'spam, spam, eggs, and spam').disassemble()
>
>would do what you think, if class Code86 were defined appropriately.

Now I see what you are advocating.  I agree completely.

Huaiyu



From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Mon Mar 11 05:21:04 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:21:04 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net> <slrna8p159.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <slrna8p19m.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Tim Hammerquist <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> graced us by uttering:
> Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> graced us by uttering:
> [ snip ]
>> It sure smells like a hoax. I mean, really:
>> 
> [ snip ]
>> 
>> "Open and unrestricted"? It sure seems ludicrous to see these
>> words in the same sentence with "Microsoft".
> 
> Didn't you know? Microsoft invented Open Source!  ;)

How 'bout a link:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22749.html

Tim Hammerquist
-- 
: Let's say I have a perl object in an OO database.

Let's not.
    -- Larry Wall in <199904091918.MAA06535 at kiev.wall.org>


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 18:14:30 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:14:30 -0600
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <7x1yexe2mi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
        <7x1yexe2mi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15494.41686.958612.585657@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> While we're at it, am I the only one bothered by how unsharp the
    Paul> boundary is between the language and the environment?  I'd
    Paul> consider things like sys.exc_info to be part of the environment,
    Paul> but there's no other way to get the info.

Paul,

I was thinking of much larger granularity things and things that are more
clearly separated from the language as delivered in python2.2.tgz or
python2.2.exe.  It appears you'd like to conisder the standard library as
part of the environment.  It is, certainly in a technical sense, but since
it is also part of the standard distribution, a semantic change there has a
much larger potential impact on programmers than, say an incompatible change
to a third-party package like PIL or MySQLdb.  So, I think it kind of
straddles the fence a bit and has to be considered in a slightly different
light.

Skip




From lluang at northwestern.edu  Thu Mar 14 15:25:24 2002
From: lluang at northwestern.edu (Louis Luangkesorn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:25:24 -0600
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3C910734.9030109@northwestern.edu>

The stats module in scipy and the one by Gary Strangman mentioned by 
another poster are one and the same.  Let's see, basic stuff like mean 
and standard deviation has been tested against certified results (see 
the unit tests for the stats module. I have an updated copy that I'm 
working on if that helps).  I don't recognize bi-serial correlations, 
but when I test spearman and pearon's they fail depending on the inputs 
(I'm writing unit tests for stats.py. If anyone has a burning desire (or 
any desire at all) to rewrite the correlation test, I can email (or 
update the CVS) what I have now so you can get some test cases.   Now 
that I've finished my proposal defense I can think about these things again)

Louis

dsavitsk wrote:

>hi all,
>
>never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking advice on how
>to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need to find
>standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am seeking
>advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i am
>wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the task.
>

-- 
K Louis Luangkesorn
lluang at northwestern.edu  http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~kll560  PGP:0xF3E2D362

Whatsoever things are true, ... honest, ... just, ... pure, ... lovely, ... of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.  
     - motto - Northwestern University




From henrik.motakef at web.de  Sun Mar 17 15:00:13 2002
From: henrik.motakef at web.de (Henrik Motakef)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 21:00:13 +0100
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com> <just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <oePl8kKkX4hO092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1016398831.924.python-list@python.org> <YZ7l8.31$Ke.12574@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <87pu23t16a.fsf@apo.hmotakef.int>

"G. Sumner Hayes" <sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com> writes:

> ! is the closest thing to a vertical line on older keyboards (/= and |=
> are already assignment operators), and represents the vertical stroke
> through the equal sign.  Like the accent marks in TeX and similar.

BTW, Haskell uses /= for "not equal". It's quite funny watching
C-Coders trying to understand why the one uses division here, and why
+= etc. won't work as well...

Then again, they have more problems than that grokking Haskell.

cu
Henrik


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 04:35:32 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 04:35:32 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <E16rDHV-0006AE-00@tswings.swing.cluster>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Christian Tanzer]
> ...
> If str and repr were to behave differently from each other, I'd expect
> repr(True) to return "1" and str(True) to return "True". Interchanging
> that seems strange.

We try to ensure that eval(repr(x)) reproduce x whenever reasonably
possible.  That best way to do that here is for repr(True) to return 'True'.
We also try to ensure that str(x) be "friendly" whenever possible, even if
that means eval(str(x)) has no chance of reproducing x exactly, or even of
running without raising an exception.  The best way to do that here is also
for str(True) to return 'True', but:

> OTOH, I'm worried about backwards compatibility.

That's the only reason for str(True) to return '1'.  How about str(True)
return '1' but str(False) return 'False'?  That's what a committee would
compromise on <wink>.

> ...
> How will bool influence '__nonzero__'? Currently, Python insists that
> '__nonzero__ should return an int'. Will this be changed to 'should
> return a bool'?

I hope so.

> As that would break existing code, I hope not.

No, "should" != "must".  Guido won't call code that returns an int here
broken, although he might call it deprecated, and leave you wondering when
the hammer will drop <wink>.




From mcharity at vendian.org  Sat Mar  9 14:44:02 2002
From: mcharity at vendian.org (Mitchell N Charity)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:44:02 -0500
Subject: An Optimization Anecdote about PyInline
Message-ID: <200203091944.g29Ji2E17927@ediacara.ne.mediaone.net>

Guido's "Python Patterns - An Optimization Anecdote"
(http://www.python.org/doc/essays/list2str.html) explores the
performance of various ways of converting a list of integers
into a string of characters.  Such as the straightforward

   def f1(list):
       string = ""
       for item in list:
           string = string + chr(item)
       return string

and the fastest version

   import array
   def f7(list):
       return array.array('B', list).tostring()

   # Use 'B' with Python2.2, 'b' with Python1.5

Guido writes
  [...] I had wanted to try one more approach: write the whole
  function in C.  [...]  Given the effort of writing and testing an
  extension (compared to whipping up those Python one-liners), as well
  as the dependency on a non-standard Python extension, I decided not
  to pursue this option...

I wanted to revisit this, because with PyInline, the effort has
diminished, and a non-standard extension is not required (just PyInline).
And, as Guido points out,

  If you feel the need for speed, [...] - you can't beat a loop
  written in C.

So, here then is a new version, f8(), which uses PyInline.

from PyInline import C
import __main__
C.Builder(code="""
PyObject* f8(PyObject *list)
{
    PyObject* string = NULL;
    unsigned char* buffer = NULL;
    int size, index;

#define RAISE(errtype,msg) { PyErr_SetString(errtype,msg); RE_RAISE; }
#define RE_RAISE           { Py_XDECREF(string); return NULL; }

    if(!PyList_Check(list))
       RAISE(PyExc_TypeError,"a list is required");

    size = PyList_Size(list);
    if(size < 0) RE_RAISE;

    string = PyString_FromStringAndSize(NULL, size);
    if(string == NULL) RE_RAISE;

    buffer = PyString_AsString(string);
    if(buffer == NULL) RE_RAISE;

    for(index = 0; index < size; index++) {
        PyObject *item = NULL;
        long number;

        item = PyList_GetItem(list,index);
        if(item == NULL) RE_RAISE;

        number = PyInt_AsLong(item);
        if(PyErr_Occurred() != NULL) RE_RAISE;

        if(number < 0 || number > 255)
            RAISE(PyExc_TypeError,"an integer was out of range");

        buffer[index] = (unsigned char) number;
    }

    return string;
}
""",targetmodule=__main__).build()

The test jig requires a slight change
   #for f in testfuncs: print f.func_name, f(testdata)
   for f in testfuncs: print f(testdata)
because PyInline currently generates glue which does not understand
f.func_name.

So, what is the result?

First, the downsides.  f8() is a C extension, and so only works with
C-based Pythons.  PyInline invokes an external C compiler, and
cruftily caches the result in the filesystem.  And, as PyInline is
alpha code, there are little misfeatures like not being able to use
func_name.  Oh yes, and being written in C, f8() is perhaps two orders
of magnitude more complex than the Python versions.  Though, this last
is perhaps a worst case, as f8() is almost all interface code, with
maybe just three lines of algorithm.  In more typical use, one might
see a one order of magnitude cost.  And with objects which provide a
nice C api, maybe even less.

The upside is f8() runs 5 times faster than f7(), the best alternative.
And uses half the memory.  That's 50 times faster than the naive versions.
And again, when python interface code is less dominant, the speedup
can be dramatically larger.

So, restoring the phrase I clipped out of the quote above, "If you
feel the need for speed, go for built-in functions - you can't beat a
loop written in C.".  And if there isn't one already, you might
consider creating one with PyInline.

Mitchell Charity

(I'm working on a web page http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/dir3/inline/
 which explores using PyInline, and Perl's Inline, with objects which
 provide C api's.)



From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 19:21:45 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 00:21:45 GMT
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
References: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <u4rjc4bzw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a78kmp$85t$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi,

> > With Python-2.2.1c1, I find `make test' fails on my old version of
> > Linux/x86 and it fails to build on an also old version of AIX.  
> 
> How old?

Ooh, AIX 3.2.5 or so.  Very crufty, but the last version supported by
IBM on some RS/6000 hardware and used by an air traffic control system
or two, so it isn't going to be upgraded anytime soon.

> > Should I go straight to SourceForge and fill in bug forms or do
> > people tend to discuss the problems here first?
> 
> Please do.  Assign the bugs to me.  Give OS/architecture/etc info,
> please.

Will do.

> > I can see the problem with the AIX build.  Linux SIGSEGVs in
> > test_calendar on a call to strftime.
> 
> More detail needed.

And you'll get it.  This was just a two line overview  :-)


Ralph.



From edcjones at erols.com  Sat Mar 30 10:15:29 2002
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:15:29 -0500
Subject: Data type ideas
References: <mailman.1017469191.15784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA5D691.2070409@erols.com>

I have a module called "MultiDict.py" which you can find at 
"http://members.tripod.com/~edcjones/pycode.html". It is probably too 
slow but it might give you some ideas.

Also consider using MySQL / MySQLdb or writing a C++ function using 
multimaps.

Good luck,
Ed Jones

Joel Ricker wrote:
> HI all, got a new problem :)
> 
> I have a tab delimited file of people plus a list of groups they belong 
> to like so:
> 
> Person 1  Group A
> 
>                Group B
> 
> Person 2  Group B
> 
> Person 3  Group A
> 
>                Group C
>  
> So basically a person can be part of one of more groups.  I'm looking to 
> process this list so that I can take each group and examine the list of 
> people in it.  Basically turn the list into:
>
> Group A Person 1
> 
>              Person 3
> 
> Group B Person 1
> 
>              Person 2
> 
> Group C Person 3




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sun Mar 31 22:45:44 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 19:45:44 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017531239.13331.python-list@python.org> <a871lv$a3i$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <3CA79606.A0C1B055@python.org> <3CA7D24B.14E17A03@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <7xsn6ghyjb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> > The main effect this had was to confuse the died-in-the-wool
> > programmers; it didn't make any difference for the newbies because
> > they had to learn the concepts anyway.  When you come in with a
> > blank mind it doesn't matter if a particular concept is called
> > "variable" or "waffle" -- you have to learn a new meaning for an
> > existing word either way, and the previous meaning you knew for the
> > word is barely relevant in the new context.
> 
> Couldn't agree more; I mentioned something substantially similar in my
> reply.  Inventing new, non-standard terminology in order to be "simpler"
> is rarely helpful; it doesn't substantially help newbies, and it only
> serves to confuse people actually involved.

This is born out by experimental psychologists, e.g.

    Landauer, T.K., Gallotti, K., and Hartwell, S., Natural command names
    and initial learning: A study of text editing terms, Commun. ACM, 26,
    7 (Jul. 1983), 495-503.

found that "unnatural" command names (think of grep, ls, rm) were
really no harder for newbies to remember than "natural" ones.


From jlh at cox.net  Sun Mar  3 12:51:23 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:51:23 GMT
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <Uj9g8.29720$jC3.771094@news1.east.cox.net> <a5ro01$b3u$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <votg8.33952$jC3.864830@news1.east.cox.net>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:a5ro01$b3u$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
> How strange the world is, I now end up defending a proposal I'm
> against (or was against, I'm still in dubio)
Sometimes it is easier to reach the truth by arguing against your
position.(i.e. devil's advocate)

> Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> wrote:
>
> > "Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
> > news:a5pmvd$fic$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
> >> Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > What you are asking everyone to agree with is:
> >> >         5 = [0,1,2,3,4]
> >>
> >> No he isn't:)  He explicitly says he doesn't think of sequences at all.
> > If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
> >   It's a duck.   How can one iterate over something that is not a
> > sequence/collection?
>
> This used to be the case in Python, but the invention of iterators
> has changed the landscape.  The for-construct no longer works on
> sequences, it works on iterable objects.
from the current docs: "The for statement is used to iterate over the
elements of a sequence (such as a string, tuple or list) or other iterable
object"
So sequences are not out the for construct has been augmented to include
iterable objects.

>So it's not right anymore
> to reject such a proposal based on that the thing isn't a sequence.
> You now must reject it if you feel the thing can't be iterated over.
> This may seem like a word play, but it isn't, it's a vital though
> subtle difference.  And it took me, being an old farth, quit some
> time to let it sink in.
Accepted.
<sidebar>
    Ok, so iterable vs. sequence.  iterable seems to mean "a sequence that
has been contrived."
</sidebar>
but continued reading states that, "The expression list is evaluated once;
it should yield a sequence."
So what is the [0,1,2,3,4] returned by the 5 in, for i in 5: , called? (I
realized it's generated by iterable object)The indici?

I'm still trying to understand so bare with me...
So if we say that, for i in 5:  has the same result as, for i in range(5):
then what happens, if python adopts this idea, when you try:
>>>print 5
do you get 5 or [0,1,2,3,4] ?
if you get 5 then how can you get [0,1,2,3,4] in the, for i in 5: statement?
If the default property of an integer object as specified in the statement,
for i in 5: is to return the indici it would seem proper to return that OR
<5 at 007B5660> type statement that happens when you use the print statement
on objects.
if you print [0,1,2,3,4] or a string representation of an object pointer,
won't that shock and confuse many?  If integers are objects, would they not
then support dot notation?  How does that affect the parser?(5.property()
vs. 5.0 , Is it an integer object or a float)
Why only make integers objects?  Is there support for making all numbers
objects?  Integers, after all, are a subset of all numbers.

Shouldn't objects have to meet some of the same requirements that design
patterns meet? Namely, be applicable to more than a specific problem?  This
appears to be a unique request for only a certain subset of numbers.  If,
objectifying integers is good then shouldn't making all numbers objects be
better?

I hope that all take my questions as they are intended, as questions from
someone trying to learn.  I apologize for the number of questions, but only
by revealing my ignorance is there any hope for me<g>.

-Jeff





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 30 02:30:40 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:30:40 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA56915.62947DDC@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3CA569A0.442201CA@alcyone.com>

[Following up to my own post here.]

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Where is the backward compatibility problem for using bool?  At
> present,
> no one uses it, so none of their types will be bools (right?).

Wasn't think this one all the way through; of course, it's when people
do comparisons that now return bools and do something explicit with
their return value, rather than just using its implicit booleanness. 
Never mind.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From haaserdnospam at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 21:58:50 2002
From: haaserdnospam at yahoo.com (Roger)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:58:50 -0700
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com> <slrnaa7gc7.26a.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <3CA3D86A.7080806@yahoo.com>

With only a year+ of experience, I second the motion for Apache.  I 
started with Microsoft PWS, tried a couple of other "simple" solutions 
and wound up using Apache.  The configuration files tend to look 
overwhelming as there are a lot of choices, but for the most part the 
defaults are what you want.

I would also suggest you take a look at Webware's WebKit at 
http://webware.sourceforge.net/.  It provides an object-oriented 
framework for your web applications and makes DEBUGGING your scripts 
easy (which is what you will need).

I also use MySQL for a database, and MySQLfront as a gui interface to 
MySQL.  All of these are free and all have Linux versions (with the 
exception of MySQLfront).

Roger


Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Sloth wrote in comp.lang.python:
> 
>>I've looked at Apache, Xitami, Zope, Medusa, et. al and think they are
>>wonderful applications.  On the other hand, they are overkill for what
>>I want to be able to do - have Python start a CGI server, serve a
>>page, get form data, get data from a database, and display dynamic
>>content.  I don't need anything industrial strength, just something
>>that can handle a single user.
>>
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I often have difficulties to understand the
> point of the "overkill" argument.
> 
> 
>>Any thoughts?  I sincerely appreciate everyone's help!
>>
> 
> If you can spare 5 megs of RAM and a little disk space, just go for
> Apache (or Xitami, or whatever). When you're running the webserver and
> are not using it currently, it'll be swapped out anyway, so why
> bother?
> 
> It's a myth that Apache is complex to get running, here's what you'd
> need to do on Windows:
> 
> 1) Install Python
> 2) Install Apache
> 3) edit etc/httpd.conf and add the line
> 
>     ScriptInterpreterSource Registry
> 
>    at the end of the file.
> 
> 4) Write your Python CGI scripts in cgi-bin and name them .py
> 
> Gerhard
> 



From briner at infomaniak.ch  Tue Mar 26 03:50:03 2002
From: briner at infomaniak.ch (cedric_briner)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:50:03 -0000
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
Message-ID: <a7pcnr+ciki@eGroups.com>

hi,
I'm interesting to know which method of a class I have to define to
list the __records of this class:

class CRdb:
	__fieldsName= []
	__keyname= []
	__records   = ['first','secnd','third']
	__iRecord= 0

because I would like to write something like:

db=CRdb()
for entry in db:
	print entry

and then get
first
secnd
third

please let me know any pointer refering this topic...or even better a
quick solution ..

thanks. Briner




From jwilhelm at outsourcefinancial.com  Fri Mar  1 17:18:14 2002
From: jwilhelm at outsourcefinancial.com (Joseph Wilhelm)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 15:18:14 -0700
Subject: Problems with multipart messages w/email class
In-Reply-To: <1015006362.1673.7.camel@jwilhelm.ofsloans.com>
References: <1015006362.1673.7.camel@jwilhelm.ofsloans.com>
Message-ID: <1015021094.1672.19.camel@jwilhelm.ofsloans.com>

On Fri, 2002-03-01 at 11:12, Joseph Wilhelm wrote:
<snip>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 59, in
> as_string
>     g(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
>   File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 83, in
> __call__
>     self._write(msg)
>   File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 104, in
> _write
>     self._dispatch(msg)
>   File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 134, in
> _dispatch
>     meth(msg)
>   File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 240, in
> _handle_multipart
>     for part in msg.get_payload():
>   File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 151, in
> __getitem__
>     return self.get(name)
>   File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 214, in get
>     name = name.lower()
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'
<snip>

Well, I have gotten a small fix for this traceback put into my copy of
Generator.py. I don't know if it should be necessarry, but this is what
I got to make it work (At line 240):

I replaced

for part in msg.get_payload():


With

pload = msg.get_payload()
if type( pload ) is not ListType:
     pload = [ pload ]
for part in pload:

Just something very small and simple, but it was necessarry to make this
email work properly. Any comments on this? Is this a known bug? Is there
something I may have done wrong that would cause the previous error?

--Joseph Wilhelm




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar 13 23:06:09 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:09 +1100
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A208@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Delaney, Timothy [mailto:tdelaney at avaya.com]
> 
> So, the first thing I would recommend is ...
> 
> results = []
> c = {}
> 
> for entry in a:
>     c[entry] = None
> 
> for entry in b:
>     if c.has_key(entry):
>         results.append(entry)

Bah ...

if not c.has_key(entry) ...

> This means you are searching for a key in a dictionary ... a 
> very quick
> operation.
> 
> A further optimisation is to use the filter() function.
> 
> results = []
> c = {}
> 
> for entry in a:
>     c[entry] = None
> 
> results = filter(c.has_key, b)

Bah ...

results = filter(lambda k: not c.has_key(k), b)

That will slow it down a bit (using the lambda) but will give the right
result ;)

Tim Delaney



From kragen at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 03:32:02 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 03:32:02 -0500
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
References: <mailman.1015803498.11987.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <837ko9klfh.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> Python defines the result of i%j to have the same sign as j; what C requires
> depends on which year's C standard you're looking at (it was left up to
> implementers' discretion before the 1999 standard); the C implementations I
> use return a result with i's sign, and I usually curse them for that.

This is a result of C being a portable assembly language; % returns
whatever the underlying remainder register has after a divide, which
generally has i's sign.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 08:17:44 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:17:44 -0500
Subject: Is there any wxPython turtor?
References: <a604fb$a6tuc$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de> <3C865341.8D190235@cablespeed.com> <a66sh5$c2aea$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3C876878.E5E9FC6D@engcorp.com>

Ricky wrote:
> 
> Thank you, I find a lot of resources.
> 
> But wxpython.org is still not available for me.

It's very likely it's your problem, not the site's.  I can 
see it fine, and could before as well.  Try doing a 
"ping wxpython.org" and if that works, it's your browser
or firewall settings that are bad.

-Peter


From wayne at mishre.com  Sun Mar  3 23:24:40 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:24:40 -0800
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk> <mailman.1015085345.6196.python-list@python.org> <Xns91C68AFA9D232andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.104>
Message-ID: <3C82F708.70303@mishre.com>

>>From the BlackAdder readme file:
>>The license of the Beta version prevents run-time components of the
>>Business Edition being distributed with your applications. This 
>>restriction will be removed when the final version is released.
>>
>>
> 
> Yes, but _when_ will the final version be released?

Bad form!  You need two __'s on each side! ;)

 > Not that I have anything I might want to distribute, but I see fro my
 > records that I paid for the beta nearly a year ago, and in that time
 > there has been one update, last summer, and since then a resounding
 > silence. It would be a shame if the project just sputtered and died.
 > There are all sorts of unselfish reasons for hoping that some
 > company (or kompany) figures out a way to make money from Linux
 > sometime.

Same here.  I haven't had a need to distribute the software I wrote yet 
without source but I may have to in the future; unfortunately I didn't 
catch that clause in the readme or I probably wouldn't have bought BA.

Anyone out there have recommendations on a good IDE with form designer, 
that's not Beta?  Nothing too fancy...I've tried wxDesigner, but 
couldn't figure out that spacer stuff for the life of me.

Wayne

-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 22 13:01:01 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 13:01:01 -0500
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <mailman.1016727755.6284.python-list@python.org> <20020322115241.429$rK@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <a7frgt$9qd$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <20020322115241.429$rK at news.newsreader.com>,
Hernan M. Foffani <hfoffani at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>We already have a sort of Python certification program. And with several
>layers of qualifications. ;-)
>- Python Devs with commit permission.
>- Other Python Devs
>- Known c.l.py contributors
>- Authors of modules, recipes, etc.
>
>I know this is not a formal procedure (see the smiley.) But for
>hiring programmers, wouldn't be better if the applicant can show off
>(pun intended) his/her previous work?
>
>If Python skills "certificated" through public collaboration develops as a
>our common practice, the community would benefit a lot. And we honor Python
>Open Source spirit.

Very nice.  I like!  I'd change "layers" to "categories", though.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Sat Mar 30 13:15:08 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:15:08 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com> <uhen0vatp.fsf@online.no> <q0t6au4goc1q5ql38vq57qd3ec2ajhqpgl@4ax.com> <u1ye4p12b.fsf@online.no> <pacbaukhfcvhoqbl0o22hlaijq1f6g3k9i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ubsd5ncsm.fsf@online.no>

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> writes:

> For some reason, this only drops the DOS 8.3 version of the
> filename.

Compatibility with old programs probably. 

Suggestion: Use dynwin.windll

http://www.nightmare.com/~rushing/dynwin/

import windll 
kernel32 = windll.module('kernel32')
kernel32.GetLongPathName(<you have to kid around with some
        windll.cstring buffers here>) 

to get the longnames. I suppose it's for
compatibility. You can't know when somebody or someprogramme will hand
you a short pathname.

PS: GetLongPathName only works on win2000/win98 and upwards. I have a
msdev project to compile calldll and friends for python 2.2 if that is a
problem.


-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Mar  9 21:34:29 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:34:29 +1100
Subject: Announce: RPy (R from Python)
References: <20020308113507.A2855@casa.parque>
Message-ID: <3C8AC635.FA2074C2@optushome.com.au>

Walter Moreira wrote:
> I wrote a small extension module for using the R programming language from
> within Python.  It makes it possible to use the huge mathematical and
> statistical library of R from Python, almost whitout any changes from the text
> of R manuals.
> 
> As a side effect, it is also possible to use the full graphics capabilities of
> R, which are extremely good.
> 
> You can download it from:
> 
>     http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy

This is a fabulous bit of work! In order to illustrate both the power of
the R environment and the ease with which this power can be used from
within Python (thanks to Walter's efforts and those of Duncan Temple
Lang on the RSPython module which inspired RPy), I have created a little
demo, available at http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/rpy_demo.html

Cheers,

Tim C



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar 16 12:40:51 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 18:40:51 +0100
Subject: Linux endline
References: <3C932C41.2974C1DA@club-internet.fr> <gJKk8.25432$n4.4999467@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D3BE26B4566cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in news:gJKk8.25432
$n4.4999467 at newsc.telia.net:
> Fabien H?non wrote:
>> 1? When I use it under Linux I would like to get rid of the \r 
which
>> appears at the end of each line. ( I know there is a difference of
>> endline between Windows, Mac and Linux). 
> 
> how about
> 
> if line.endswith("\r\n"):
>     # deal with DOS file ending
>     line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> self.text.insert(END, line)

or, if you don't care about  having whitespaces after the last 
printable character you can also call line = rstrip(line).

i even use string.strip() in an application where no leading or 
trainling whitespaces are needed.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Mar  5 12:21:38 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:21:38 -0800
Subject: python IDE, komodo
In-Reply-To: <3c84f0eb.27475796@news.easynews.net>; from stojek@part-gmbh.de on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 04:26:06PM +0000
References: <3c84f0eb.27475796@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <20020305092138.A32466@ActiveState.com>

[Marcus Stojek wrote]
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for an Python IDE. Nothing extremly special, just
> easy debugging, tracing maybe profiling. Is Komodo okay?
> Is there something else (except Visual Studio .NET) I should 
> look at. Something free would be nice.

Komodo is good, but I am biased. :)
Take a look at:
    http://www.python.org/editors/


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Mar 29 16:24:30 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:24:30 -0700
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DC1@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Steve Lamb [mailto:grey at despair.dmiyu.org] 
> 
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:48:15 GMT, Benjamin Schollnick 
> <junkster at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> > IF X == 0:
> >    DO_THIS ()
> > ELIF X == 2:

[snip]

> > But, this routine is not exactly readable compared to a case:
>  
> > CASE X of:
> >    0  : DO_THIS()
> >    2  : DO_THIS (2)
> >    4  : DO_THIS (x+2)
> >    6  : DO_THIS ()
> >  ELSE:
> >       DO_NOT_DO_THIS()
> 
> its_called_a_directory_pointing_to_functions = {'case':closed}
> 
>     I do not believe that any language which can have a hash 
> of function pointers has any business with a case statement.

But that only works when all the functions in all the branches take the
same number and types of arguments -- hardly the general case.

-- bjorn



From case at ironwater.com  Wed Mar  6 04:46:19 2002
From: case at ironwater.com (Case Van Horsen)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:46:19 GMT
Subject: mx package
References: <pan.2002.03.06.01.23.47.195291.3038@crystalcherry.com>
Message-ID: <Lzlh8.21871$e07.4404@sccrnsc01>

"Colin Fox" <cfox at crystalcherry.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.03.06.01.23.47.195291.3038 at crystalcherry.com...
> I'm trying to work with Zope and Postgres, and one of the
> packages I'm trying to install (psycopg) requirs mxDateTime, which in
> turn requires mx.
>
> I can't find any mention of this 'mx' package anywhere.
>
Try searching Google with "mxDateTime". mxDateTime is part of the Base set
of tools, which is the mx package.

Case




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar 28 08:54:05 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:54:05 -0500
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <kusn6ldh3u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <a7ugiv$kv6$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>
Message-ID: <rgFo8.45014$cB5.19655@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Sibylle Koczian" <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> wrote in
message news:a7ugiv$kv6$1 at rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de...
> Erno Kuusela schrieb in Nachricht ...
> >In article <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>, "Steve
> >Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
> >
> >i think it's good to remind people of this occasionally. while it may
> >waste time for most people, it also lets newbies learn the ways of
> >netiquette without having to be chastised invividually by email.
> >
> Especially as this silly Outlook Express strongly suggests top posting by
> placing the cursor at the beginning and inserting an empty line. So
somebody
> _has_ to tell the newbie not to write at this point. (That somebody might
be
> common sense, of course.)
>
> Koczian
>
Well, while we're talking about netiquette, I suppose we should *also*
remind everybody that it's necessary to be careful with attributions!

For the record, I did NOT write the comments attributed to me above, as a
careful examination of the quote marks shows. Since none of my original
comments were included, including my attribution is likely to mislead. The
quoted remarks were written solely by Erno in response to a posting from me
whose content was removed. Retaining my name would have made more sense if
something had explicitly indicated this.

letting-it-all-hang-out-(and-using-outofluck-express)-ly y'rs  - steve





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 15:35:29 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 15:35:29 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net> <3CA75ECC.389A0186@alcyone.com> <2NJp8.140405$Yv2.43077@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <a87ruh$90j$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <2NJp8.140405$Yv2.43077 at rwcrnsc54>,
Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>
>Someone (Guido?) already mentioned that testing for true is redundant,
>but doesn't :
>    if 2:
>imply
>    if 2 == True:

Nope.  That's like saying

    if '':

having the same result as

    if []:

implies that

    '' == []

which is completely untrue.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Mon Mar 25 09:59:34 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 14:59:34 GMT
Subject: Zope Xen project management, whetever happened??
References: <pan.2002.03.25.18.17.50.932892.20873@thevirtual.co.nz>
Message-ID: <a7ne0m$dq0$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

William Hamilton <willie at thevirtual.co.nz> wrote:
> What ever happened to Xen?  Was progress ever made in it, was there a
> replacement project management system for Zope created??

I think the project died a quiet death.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 12:12:47 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:12:47 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <15494.19711.723922.527327@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
 <15494.19711.723922.527327@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <6862777.1015405967@[192.168.1.100]>

On 3/6/02 11:08 AM -0600, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Why is an or_expr non-terminal between the two comparisons?  Shouldn't it
> be a target_list?

I wanted the grammar to enforce exactly the same precedence rules as in 
expressions, and the easiest way to do that was to use the same tokens as 
in the corresponding part of the expression grammar.

Also, target_list isn't right because the proposed for-loop syntax only 
allows looping over one integer at a time, not a tuple of integers.

But perhaps there's a better choice than or_expr that would flag more 
non-lvalues as syntax errors...suggestions welcome.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/




From bobx at linuxmail.org  Fri Mar 29 15:36:55 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:36:55 GMT
Subject: Metakit vs. StandaloneZODB
Message-ID: <Hf4p8.1944$Tf4.541360@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I am just getting back into Python and while perusing the ActiveState
packages I find Metakit and StandaloneZODB as choices. Can someone give me
the relative merits of each? And why they would choose one over the other?

Bob
--
"Somebody told me how frightening it as how much topsoil we are losing
each year, but I told that story around the campfire and nobody got scared."
-- Jack Handy




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 11:21:04 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:21:04 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-2A0D14.08210401032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list at python.org>,
 "Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote:

> Nothing at all, but with this syntax you have different semantics for:
> 
>    for start <= i < end:
> 
> And
> 
>    if start <= i < end:

Different in what sense?

"for something" loops over all values of the variable that make "something" 
true.  Which part of "something" is the variable is determined by its 
location in the overall expression.

That is true with the current "for x in y" syntax as well as
the suggested "for start <= i < end" syntax.
Well, except that by "all values" substitute "all integer values"
since it doesn't make sense to loop over all floats.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 18:39:30 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:39:30 +0000
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
Message-ID: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-857008.html 

impact zlib.pyd? 
-- 
Robin Becker


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Mar 22 21:50:15 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:50:15 GMT
Subject: Environment variables.
References: <mailman.1016817295.29856.python-list@python.org> <3C9BAFAE.51D0896D@cs.unm.edu> <ggon9ucdbsrpsqn59fme4g8vsch4ato92b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <jlrn9ugril2q0og7lq2k6ic8f9bfcp8i95@4ax.com>

>The only way to set environment variables so they persist is by
>attacking the registry but then the new values don't get used until
>you start a new command prompt window.

This is true. Of command prompts. Note, however, that under Windows/NT
variants (NT, 2000, XP) changes to environment variables can and are
propagated through to the Explorer. So while one can't do "it," and
one most certainly can't do "it" generally for all operating systems,
there is indeed some way to do it "it" for Windows for some variant
definition of "it" that I'm personally ignorant of. :) :) This version
of "it" probably involves the application in question listening for
some kind of well known event.


C//



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 20 13:55:10 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 18:55:10 GMT
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
References: <mailman.1016624252.6101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7alue$d1s$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:26:54 -0500, "Bruce Dykes" <bkd at graphnet.com> wrote:

>Just to make sure I'm on the right track here...
>
>I'm reading records from a file. This is a flat file, with one line per
>record, and each line being some 380+ characters long, with about 40 fields
>in each record.
>
>Now I'm thinking that the easiest way to deal with these records (in
>preparation for developing a Zope app to interface with them), is to set up
>a class, with attributes for each field:
>
>class call_record:
>    def __init__(self, record=''):
>        self.record_id=record[0:5]
>        self.date=record[6:11]
>
>etc...
>
>Now what I expect to be able to do is say:
>
>log = readlines(today.log)
>
>and then summon discrete bits of info like so:
>
>print call_record.record_id(log[1])
>
You probably want
    apro = call_record(log[1]) #apro: a_parsed_record_object
and then
    print apro.record_id

but you might also give your objects a __str__ function to make
a default printing string, e.g.,
    def __str__(self):
        return '<This is a call_record with record_id "%s">' % self.record_id
then
    print apro

will print whatever __str__ returned.

You could also return formatted strings for different standard views that
you might want to print, with statments like

    print apro.brief_view()
or
    print apro.full_view()
or even
    print apro.formatted_view('a string to control formatting')

Once you have decided to make objects, you have the opportunity to
give them behaviors (methods) too, not just attributes to access.
This can clean up the code that uses the objects.

>However, all I get when I try this is the return of of the object attribute
>instance and its memory address.
>
You know why by now.

>Am I on the right track and just overlooking something obvious? Is there
>already an app that does something similar that I can browse for pointers?
>
>On a side note, it was fun just cranking out a python script that created
>the class code from the file documentation. 8-)
>
Python is cool in many ways ;-)

HTH
Regards,
Bengt Richter



From kragen at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 13:51:10 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 13:51:10 -0500
Subject: Parsing string into fixed-width pieces
References: <mailman.1016225186.22054.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <83n0x4ie75.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"Johnson, Brad" <brad-g-johnson at uiowa.edu> writes:
> I'm new to Python and have been combing the documentation and the message
> archive here for information on splitting a string into fix-width pieces.  I
> assume their is an easy way to do this, I just don't seem to be able to find
> it in the reference material.  Any suggestions?

Is this to unpack some fixed-width record format?  The struct module
is used for fixed-width record formats:
>>> import struct
>>> struct.unpack('3s4s3s', 'asdfghijkl')
('asd', 'fghi', 'jkl')

HTH.



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Mar 14 09:58:09 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:09 +0000
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>
Message-ID: <mde19uod0j2tunffs4ud2kmrndkvf71rc6@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:26:01 +0000, Antonis C Koutalos <ack at ee.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

>
>Hi there,
> I would greatly appreciate information about a good book on python. I
>have been programming C for a few years, but I know next to nothing about
>python. Therefore, I would appreciate a book that describes the basics of
>python as well as the more advanced features of the language.
>
>Thank you in advance!
>
>-A.

To learn the language itself there's no better than the online
tutorials. Start there.

As for books, I recently bought a copy of M. Lutz's Programming Python
and I like it very much. Note though, that this book is for people that
already have experience with Python. It is a sort of "what can you do
with Python" in several areas (sysadmin, GUI's via Tkinter, etc.) and,
as I said before, i like it very much.

Hope it helps,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From henrik.motakef at web.de  Mon Mar  4 11:37:13 2002
From: henrik.motakef at web.de (Henrik Motakef)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 17:37:13 +0100
Subject: Can Python do this?
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <86pu2k1e86.fsf@apo.hmotakef.int>

"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> writes:

> Can I then call that method by somehow having the interpreter
> evaluate the string variable into a call to the desired method?

You can. It's (unsurprisingly) called "eval".

>>> def func1(): print "foo"
... 
>>> eval("func" + "1")
<function func1 at 0x80e3bcc>
>>> eval("func" + "1()")
foo
>>> eval("func" + "1")()
foo

hth
Henrik


From jrchaff at mcn.net  Wed Mar 13 13:40:28 2002
From: jrchaff at mcn.net (jrc)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:40:28 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F9D2D.BFCB973B@mcn.net>

Oh brother.  What drivel.

Eric Brunel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Found the following link on comp.lang.tcl. A bit long, but worth reading...
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3B40A4A7.6E39BD%40brad-aisa.com&rnum=1
>
> Regards,
>  - eric -



From garrett at bgb-consulting.com  Sun Mar 24 18:17:37 2002
From: garrett at bgb-consulting.com (Don Garrett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:17:37 GMT
Subject: Java and Python for embedded applications (was: Java and Python)
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com> <3C9836B8.150B4DA@engcorp.com> <7F4A1C2050937632.B0420410CEF7D39A.B15EB10EEC873652@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E5E7B.82FE2AD6@bgb-consulting.com>


Cameron Laird wrote:
> I'm unconvinced about even the mild Java-is-smaller-and-faster claim.
> While I don't keep up with embedded Java now, there certainly have
> been times in the recent past when its start-of-the-art has been ...
> disappointing in these regards.  Python was competitive, and sometimes
> better.

  I had the good fortune to work with Dallas Semiconductor on projects related
to the Java ibutton, and TINI boards. They required that class files be run
through a pre-processor that (mostly) did nothing but strip or compress meta
data related to class information and perform as much linking as possible
prior to downloading.

  Working programs were often compressed down to under a k. Of course,
performance was what you would expect from an 8 bit processor running a 32 bit
VM.

  Java worked very well in that embedded environment. In particular, the
strict typing was very useful for the strict security mechanisms using in the
iButton.

  Unfortunatly, I've never had the chance to work with embedded Python as a
comparison. I should also note that while the Java iButton conformed to the
Java SmartCard 1.0 spec, they did not conform to later versions, and people at
DalSemi seemed to feel that the spec was evolved to their disadvantage for
political reasons (I have no idea if that's true or not).

--
Don Garrett                             http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting                                      garrett at bgb.cc


From rkashyap at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar  6 09:12:09 2002
From: rkashyap at sympatico.ca (Ramkumar Kashyap)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:12:09 -0500
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca>

I find that most introductory books approach programming in a 
non-intuitive manner and lose out on a big chunk of their audience. 
 Only a few of us that persevere, end up learning the language and even 
fewer go on to achieve "GURU" status. Why is this?

I have seen several posts on CLP and the newbie tutors list, where 
people mention that their first encounter with programming was in BASIC, 
COBOL, Pascal, Fortran.  They did not really make any progress, gave up 
on programming.  Now they are attempting once again, hoping things have 
become a little easier.

I would like to know how the pattern was set to teach programming 
languages.  You do an introductory program like "Hello World", learn how 
to compile and run it. Then jump into decision structures, loops, 
functions, etc.

This is extremely non-intuitive to most people.  Most 5,6,7 year olds 
can speak fluently in their native languages, but how many of them could 
tell you about vowels, consonants, nouns, verbs, adjectives.  In fact 
quite a few of them speak multiple languages, can easily differentiate 
sentence structures in those languages, but would be hard-pressed to 
give defintions of the above.

So how come in programming, we ALWAYS jump into the constructs of a 
language, rather than just doing, gaining proficiency and then 
understanding how it is put together?

I think that unless the approach to teaching Programming languages, is 
changed and follows the more universal style of teaching spoke language 
or verbal communication, Computer Programming for Everybody will remain 
a dream.

Just my .02 cents

Ramkumar

Curtis Jensen wrote:

> The only disappointing parts for me were:
> The cover, definitly didn't seem targeted to the college crowd, but 
> more to highschoolers.
> No chapters on extending Python with C.
> The XML chapters seemed to be an attempt to jump on the band wagon and 
> sell books.
>
> All in all, I think the book is well written.  The examples are 
> usefull enough to figure out what is going on without reading the 
> chapter (good for lazy programmers).  I lent it to a (non-programmer) 
> friend and he found it more useful than the O'Reilly Python book.
>
> Also, if your main intent for reviewing the book was for the money, 
> I'd suggest playing the lotto instead.  Don't be so arogant that you 
> think that your time is so precious as to complain about a temporary, 
> predeterimined, pay scale.  They were upfront in their monatary 
> compensation.  If you don't like it, don't review the book.
>



From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Wed Mar 27 10:46:28 2002
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:46:28 -0800
Subject: list of empty lists
References: <3CA11A5B.5000501@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA1E954.4040901@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

Curtis Jensen wrote:
> Is there a easy way to make a list of an arbitray number of empty lists?
> 
> I can do something like:
>  >>> some_number = 3
>  >>> l = [[]] * some_number
>  >>> l
> [[], [], []]
> 
> Unfortunatly this has an unfortunate side affect.  Whatever I do to one 
> of the list gets done to the other lists. ie:
>  >>> l[0].append(1)
>  >>> l
> [[1], [1], [1]]
> 
> 
> In this case, what I would like is three independantly empty lists.  I 
> can make a for loop to loop "some_number" of times and append an empty 
> list at each itteration.  Is there a simpler way?
> Thanks.
> 

Thanks to all for the quick answers.
The "map(list, [[]]*n)" solution works best for me.  Sorry I didn't 
mention it earlier; we needed a Python 1.5.2 solution.  Plus this 
approach works on versions >1.5.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 09:38:51 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:38:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au> <1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost> <mailman.1016855556.16177.python-list@python.org> <Xns91DC65AB692BBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <m3663k69rr.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns91DC942788EFDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> wrote in 
news:m3663k69rr.fsf at ferret.object-craft.com.au:

> Duncan> I agree with you here up to a point. I would break down the
> Duncan> roles into html developer who needs to know some ZPT,
> Duncan> presentation developer who just needs to know what not to
> Duncan> touch, and content developer who just needs to know which
> Duncan> parts of the page require content.
> 
> Are you suggesting that there are three different people would work on
> the same template file?

> 
> IMO there would be some sort of graphic design done which may not
> necessarily produce useful HTML - that design would be taken by the
> content developer who would then build the template.

You have someone who does the graphical design, not necessarily in HTML. 
You have someone who converts that into a template (hopefully only one) for 
the entire site. Then there is someone who does the logic for querying 
databases etc. Then there is someone who updates the actual information 
that goes on the pages. Some of these jobs will be done by the same person, 
but say I want to add a new press release onto my site, then I don't want 
whoever does that to need to know HTML.

I know of one company (Jamkit) near me that uses Zope+CMF to produce 
websites for businesses and charities. They produce the page layout from 
the information given them by the graphical designers, and I guess the 
logic is much the same for most of the sites. I believe they also set up 
the initial content, but after that the customers can edit their own pages, 
and even add new pages or move them around within the site structure.

The critically important step in this is separating the content from the 
presentation.

> Duncan> In particular the CMF skins help a lot.
> 
> I haven't looked at CMF skins.

Basically you have a set of folders containing templates. Each template 
builds on the other templates, but the folders are searched in order for 
each template. So for example a form might be defined in news_edit_form in 
the folder zpt_generic, but that calls main_template. main_template is also 
defined in zpt_generic, but if I add a mysite folder before zpt_generic in 
the skin then main_template from mysite would be used instead. So simply 
adding a new main_template instantly changes the appearance of every other 
template in the system.

The presence of the skin folders is invisible to the templates, which are 
written as though all of the templates were in the current folder.

You can define several skins, so for example you might have another skin 
which has a 'printable' folder early in its search containing a simplified 
main_template for formatting printable pages.

For one site I have been playing with recently I have a folder 'ieeditor' 
which defines a wysiwyg editor for IE and changes a couple of the other 
templates to use it. The end user can choose between the plain html forms 
or the fancy (but slower) HTML editor by changing skins. (The end user 
never sees the skin folders, only a choice of skins).

Python scripts also live in skin folders, so again you can customise 
behaviour by changing the scripts in an earlier folder without having to 
change the original.
 
-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From wurmy at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  2 20:32:12 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:32:12 GMT
Subject: ANN: experimental patch to allow importing from file-like objects
References: <3c7fcbe6.7419921@news.t-online.de> <Xns91C54C828E2A8gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.213> <3c81245c.47694421@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3C817D5C.24C26C3F@earthlink.net>

Gerson Kurz wrote:

> On a related note, (I've asked this before to no avail) - how do I
> successfully subclass files & open them?
> 
> The problem is - where to I subclass a file returned from open()?
> open() always returns the builtin file class. Attempting to do this
> 
> ----------- (snip here) -------------
> 
> raw_file = open(...)
> my_file = my_file_class()
> raw_file.read = my_file.read
> 
> ----------- (snip here) -------------
> 
> I'll get an error that read is a read-only method.

I don't know much about 2.2 yet, but I think the
preferred method is subclassing file, then opening a
file through the subclass's constructor (rather than
through open()). For example:

class NoisyFile(file):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        file.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
        print "Bwahahaha!"

f = NoisyFile("c:/python/test/2.2/test-file-1.py", "r")
print f.readlines()
f.close()

HTH,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From mxp at dynalabs.de  Fri Mar  8 16:53:22 2002
From: mxp at dynalabs.de (Michael Piotrowski)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:53:22 +0100
Subject: PARTIAL SOLUTION: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20
 does not work
References: <mailman.1015621155.2174.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x68z924tgt.fsf@hyperion.mii.dynalabs.de>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Michael Piotrowski]
> > I've had a look at test_fpformat: The test expects that
>>
>>    "%.*f" % (0, -0.003)
>>
>> produces -0 (negative zero),
>
> No, and this is important:  this has nothing to do with negative zeroes.
> What the test expects is a two-character *string*, '-' followed by '0'.

I'm sorry.  Of course you're right: The test expects the string "-0"
and it gets the string "0" instead.

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at dynalabs.de>


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 17:19:19 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 22:19:19 GMT
Subject: range Failure?
References: <3C8B84B6.DB3F8E9A@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <a6gm57$18f$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:07:18 -0500, "Colin J. Williams" <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
[...]
>It might say:   
>
>     range([start= 0,] stop[, step= 1]) 

Still, the two optional []'s are not valid in all combinations,
(which is what you fix with your improved text ;-)
so maybe it should say something like:

     range([start= 0,] stop)          # where step defaults to 1, or
     range(start, stop [, step= 1])

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jason at jorendorff.com  Tue Mar 12 13:25:09 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:25:09 -0600
Subject: Can we use print to print to more than sys.stdout?
In-Reply-To: <3C8E441E.4D64C8DA@impathnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEPBDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> #1) Is it possible to change print behavior to make it print to several
> streams?
>
> #2)
> Is it also possible to define an object that would behave like a file
> and that would do the printing itself to wherever required?

# Sure.  This code does both.

class Mux:
    def __init__(self, *objects):
        self.__objects = objects
    def write(self, data):
        for obj in self.__objects:
            obj.write(data)
    def writelines(self, lines):
        for obj in self.__objects:
            obj.writelines(lines)

myfile = open('somefile.txt', 'a')
sys.stdout = Mux(sys.stdout, myfile)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/





From netzapper at magicstar.net  Sun Mar 31 18:13:57 2002
From: netzapper at magicstar.net (A. Jones)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:13:57 GMT
Subject: Cannot find what I'm sure is a simple command... please help.
Message-ID: <3ca7978b.251291804@mammoth.usenet-access.com>

I seem to have either overlooked, or completely missed a function that
allows one to open a specific line of a file.

I've read through my Learning Python book, and read the relevent
module docs (anything having to do with files, and the __builtins__).
I must have overlooked such a function.

I thought the seek() function might work, but it only seems to give me
a byte offset in the file, and not a line number.

Can somebody please help?


-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Ulimited downloads - 19 servers ==-----


From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Thu Mar  7 17:21:15 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:21:15 GMT
Subject: Module Search Path?
Message-ID: <3c87e781.62223437@news>

I want to store the modules I have written in their own directory.
When I add it to the search path with sys.path.append the changes are
made for one session only. How can I make permanent changes to the
search path? I am using ActivePython 2.1 (PythonWin) in Win98.

Bruce Robbins


From lac at strakt.com  Sat Mar  9 18:22:18 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:22:18 +0100
Subject: Tkinter + Button widget 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Adonis Vargas" <deltapigz@telocity.com> 
   of "Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:33:32 EST." <3c8a9185$1_1@nopics.sjc> 
References: <3c8a9185$1_1@nopics.sjc> 
Message-ID: <200203092322.g29NMItB025552@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?
> 
>     def HideNewClient(self, frame):
>         frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
>         return
> 
>         pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
>                                text="Search",
>                                relief=GROOVE,
>                                font=("Tahoma", 10),
>                                width=16,
>                                command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))
> 
> any help would greatly be appreciated.
> 
> Adonis
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 6
> From: "Adonis Vargas" <deltapigz at telocity.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Subject: Tkinter + Button widget
> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:33:32 -0500
> Lines: 18
> NNTP-Posting-Host: nopics.sjc
> Message-ID: <3c8a91ed$1_2 at nopics.sjc>
> Path: news.baymountain.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!sac.uu.net!news.compaq.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!n
> ews.gtei.net!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!nopics.sjc!directvdsl.com
> Xref: news.baymountain.net comp.lang.python:151323
> To: python-list at python.org
> Sender: python-list-admin at python.org
> Precedence: bulk
> List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=help>
> List-Post: <mailto:python-list at python.org>
> List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
> 	<mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
> List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
> 	<mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
> 
> when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?
> 
>     def HideNewClient(self, frame):
>         frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
>         return
> 
>         pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
>                                text="Search",
>                                relief=GROOVE,
>                                font=("Tahoma", 10),
>                                width=16,
>                                command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))
> 
> any help would greatly be appreciated.
> 
> Adonis

You don't pass paramenters to commands that you want to run when you
click a button like that.  All command wants is the name of the
command you are going to run.  If you need to pass an argument it
is usual to get out the lambda, so something like this ought to work.

pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                       text="Search",
                       relief=GROOVE,
                       font=("Tahoma", 10),
                       width=16,
                       command=lambda s=self, arg=pdb_frmNewClient : 
                       s.HideNewClient(arg))

Laura Creighton



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Mar  7 13:52:34 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:52:34 -0500
Subject: win32com question using R com interface
Message-ID: <3C87B6F2.9050500@wi.mit.edu>

I have been trying to translate some visual basic code to python and 
have been running into a slight problem

I am having some problems sending vectors or arrays across the interface.

here is the VB code

Dim x As StatConnector
Dim i3(5) As Integer
i3(1) = 5
i3(2) = 4
i3(3) = 3
i3(4) = 2
i3(5) = 1
Set x = New StatConnector
x.Init ("R")
x.SetSymbol "i3", i3

Here is the python code

from win32com.client import Dispatch
i3 = (5,4,3,2,1)
x=Dispatch("StatConnectorSrv.StatConnector")
x.Init("R")
x.SetSymbol("i3", i3)

This results in an error
File "<COMObject StatConnectorSrv.StatConnector>", line 2, in SetSymbol
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None, 
None, None, 0, -2147024809), None)

Now x.SetSymbol("i3", "foo") or x.SetSymbol("i3", 3.0) works just fine. 
    So, the question is are the two codes equivalent or am I sending the 
wrong thing (the tuple) to the server?

Any help would be appreciated.

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research




From arturs at iidea.pl  Fri Mar 22 06:31:54 2002
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:31:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in 
> news:slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net:
>> Is there an idiom in Python as to sorting dictionary by value,
>> not keys? I came up with some solutions which are so inefficient
>> that I'm sure there must be a simple way.
> How do you know they are inefficient? Have you profiled your application 
> and found this to be a bottleneck?

No, and it seems the problem is not with sorting.
I wanted to write a compact word counting script (well, in shell
it can be done in a 5 lines or so), just  for fun.

and

import string,sys


a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())

known = []
times = 0
output = {}

for i in a:
    if i not in known:
        for l in a:
            if l == i:
                times = times + 1
        known.append(i)
        output[i] = times
    times = 0


items = [ (output[k], k) for k in output ]
items.sort()
items.reverse()
items = [ (k, v) for (v, k) in items ]
for k in items:
    print k[0], k[1]

it seems it's slow not because of sorting...

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org
http://mf.gnome.pl


From maurelius01 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 23:57:41 2002
From: maurelius01 at hotmail.com (Marc)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:57:41 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem simplified
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65@hotmail.com> <a7gdiv$1oc$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C0B45.E3C51B0C@hotmail.com>


Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65 at hotmail.com>,
> Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >I'm using Windows NT, Python 1.5.2, and IDLE 0.5
> 
> Try switching to Python 2.1.2 or 2.2; I'm sure that reload() has had
> some changeds.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> 
> "We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
> Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth

OK, I've just tried Python 2.2 and IDLE 0.8.  Same
problem.

This really seems quite mysterious?  I'm surprised
that others haven't run into this.  I'm sure I'm 
not the first person to use reload, or the first
to 
inherit from a class into different files.

Marc


From calder at email.in.signature  Sun Mar  3 17:35:44 2002
From: calder at email.in.signature (calder)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:35:44 +0100
Subject: [newbie] Problem with os.system
References: <a5u6il$fsc$1@smilodon.ecp.fr>
Message-ID: <1015194944.406831104@news.tpi.pl>

"DarkCed" <malletc3 at cti.ecp.fr> wrote:
>I would like to run a program from a python script (a source for a
>icecast server).
>The program works, but a simple two-line script with os.system('ices')
>does not. I get this message :
>"syntax error near unexpected token".
>
>If I type "ices" in the same repertory, it works...
>Shall I use another command to run my program ?
>
>Thanx
>Ced

You must be mistyping something... Your two-line script should look like this:

import os
os.system ('ices')

And that's it.

-- 
**************************
 Calder [calder at box43.pl]
        [gg 2174530]
**************************



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Mar 25 02:12:36 2002
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:12:36 -0800
Subject: I imaplib reliable?
References: <GtELu3.DA2@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <dlim7a.qp2.ln@home.rogerbinns.com>

> I'm just not sure if Python's imaplib has been war tested.

When I last tried it about 6 months ago, I found it to be full of
problems.  In particular it pretty much just returned raw IMAP
protocol strings for most operations.  The user of the library
then has to do far too much parsing work.

If you want some examples, look in the IMAP spec for literals
(where there is a number in squiggly brackets followed by that
many bytes of data).  Python's imaplib just returns that all
to you, and you have to parse everything out.  Given a valid
imap implementation could put almost any data as literals
(especially things like funky folder names), this makes working
with imaplib very low level and tedious, and not much different
than having to write it yourself.


--
Roger





From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 16:59:00 2002
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:59 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
References: <mailman.1015612095.8491.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20020308215942.29971B@gbreed.compulink.co.uk>

Cromwell, Jeremy wrote:

> PEP 276 (Simple Iterator for ints) and PEP 284 (Integer for-loops), 
> among
> others, are written from the perspective that the current integer 
> for-loop
> syntax
> 
>     for i in range(10):
> 
> is a wart.  Is this true?  That is, where does the Python community 
> stand on
> this issue?

That's more than syntax.  The "integer" bit is handled by the range 
builtin, which works fine outside of for loops.  The PEPs seem to be 
getting round problems with range, not problems with for loops.  So if 
we're strictly talking about for loops,

> -Not a wart
> This is the most pythonic way to write an integer for loop.  I would 
> oppose
> almost any change.

In fact I'll go further -- for loops are one of the most beautiful 
features of the language, precisely because there's no special syntax for 
integers.  Such an obvious idea, so many languages miss it.

Now, the range() builtin I see as a minor wart.  It certainly does look 
ugly for algorithms that require a closed set of integers to loop over.  
In the example above it works fine.  If somebody can come up with a 
perfect range literal so be it.  If not, indices() and inclusive() will do 
me.

                              Graham



From robinjim at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 17 12:22:46 2002
From: robinjim at earthlink.net (robin and jim)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:22:46 GMT
Subject: new-style class initialization
Message-ID: <Gh4l8.22179$P4.1956273@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

What is the correct way to write the following where the number of arguments
to the initializer changes throughout the inheritance hierarchy?

class A(object):
   def __init__(self, x): print "A's initializer called"
   def m(self): print "save A's data"
class B(A):
   def __init__(self): print "B's initializer called"; super(B,
self).__init__('B')
   def m(self): print "save B's data"; super(B, self).m()
class C(A):
   def __init__(self): print "C's initializer called"; super(C,
self).__init__('C')
   def m(self): print "save C's data"; super(C, self).m()
class D(B, C):
   def __init__(self): print "D's initializer called"; super(D,
self).__init__()
   def m(self): print "save D's data"; super(D, self).m()
d = D()
d.m()

I have tried some permutations of defining __new__(), but obviously do not
know what I'm doing.




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 22 18:15:24 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 23:15:24 GMT
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <mailman.1016313447.30968.python-list@python.org> <a7dos3$2apu$1@news.idiom.com> <3C9B7A1E.451453BA@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7gduc$f4j$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:38:22 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

>
>
>Jim Dennis wrote:
>
>>  Shouldn't all these (helpful) examples be using raw_input() rather
>>  than input().  Do we really want the new user to be implicitly and
>>  blindly using eval(raw_input())?
>
>Yes, they should.  :)  The calls to input() should, in this case, all be
>replaced by int(raw_input()), and optionally wrapped in a try/except and while
>loop, so that the program can prompt again if a non-numeric value is given.  I
>almost mentioned this in my earlier response, but decided not to overly confuse
>the O.P. -- this essentially doubles the code size.
>
>while sum < sum_stop:
>    num = None
>    while num is None:
>        try:
>            num = int(raw_input("Please enter the number:"))
>        except ValueError:
>            print "That's not a number.  Try again!"
>    sum = sum + num    # could also be  sum += num
>    print "The sum is", sum
>print "and it is > 100"
>
>Alternatively, instead of setting num to None and watching for that to change,
>we could use a 'while 1:  try: ...  except: ... else: break'  structure.
>
Alternatively again, we could factor out the function of getting a number, to
keep that concept bite sized (and also changing a few details ;-)  e.g.:


---<snip>---
def get_num():
    while 1:
        try:
            return int(raw_input("Please enter an integer: "))
        except ValueError:
            print "That's not a integer.  Try again!"

sum = 0; sum_stop = 100
while sum < sum_stop:
    sum += get_num()
    print "The sum is", sum

print "... and it is >= %d" % sum_stop
---<snip>---

Please enter an integer: 2.
That's not a integer.  Try again!
Please enter an integer: 2
The sum is 2
Please enter an integer: -5
The sum is -3
Please enter an integer: 99
The sum is 96
Please enter an integer: 3
The sum is 99
Please enter an integer: 1
The sum is 100
... and it is >= 100

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 17:16:58 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:16:58 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF60AB598E.14FB8B97-ON88256B73.0076BCC8@i2.com>

[Samuele Pedroni]
> Smalltalk try to deal with such
> corners compesating
>  vaguely mimicking english:
>
> 1 to: 20 do: [...].
> 10 timesRepeat: [...].
>
> These forms in some sense (my
> very personal impression)
> try to hide that 1 is an object here,
> not to underline that.

Interesting observation.  But actually, we very much chose those forms to
"underline" not to "hide" the fact that numbers are first-class objects in
Smalltalk (as they are also in Python).  A Smalltalker sees "10
timesRepeat: [...]" and thinks "send the timesRepeat message to (i.e.,
invoke the method on) the integer object 10 passing along the block [...]
as an argument in order to execute the block 10 times".  Smalltalkers
delight in seeing everything interpreted as messages sent to (i.e., methods
invoked on) objects.  It was a deliberate design decision to *not* add
special syntax for control structures specifically so that control
structures would be seen as "objects responding to messages/methods" just
like everything else.  We wanted a language whereby *everything* could be
interpreted as "objects responding to messages/methods".

>
> What about "for i in 10"
> from this angle of view ?

I like the idea of a for-loop getting an iterator from the target and then
iterating on the produced values.  And, as PEP 276 says, it seems simple,
useful, and practical to have iter(n) produce 0,1,...,n-1 (particularly in
for-loops).  I like the idea of integers being first-class objects.  I like
the idea of integers having methods.  I don't see any reason why one should
pretend that integers aren't first-class objects.  Or why one should try to
hide the fact that class int has methods.  But then, I'm hopelessly
indoctrinated -- although, I'm perfectly content to write abs(n) (just in
case any -bots that shall remain nameless are listening) <wink>.

Jim




From kedai at kedai.com.my  Tue Mar 26 00:43:31 2002
From: kedai at kedai.com.my (kedai)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:43:31 -0800
Subject: turning a python script to windows service
Message-ID: <c5e68843.0203252143.19ccdd06@posting.google.com>

hi
i've a simple script that just prints time.time().  how can i turn it
to a windows service?

do i need to do anythng special, apart from subclassing from
win32serviceutil.ServiceFramework and defining SvcDoRun, SvcStop, etc.
(the o'reilly python for win32 does help a bit, but i think i need
more prodding :P)

i have turned the sript to run as a service with srvany, but it never
prints anything, or do anything useful.  but when run in debug mode,
it does print.

i may be missing something obvious here.

the gist of the script:

import time
while 1:
    print time.time(time.ctime())
    time.sleep(10)


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Fri Mar  8 19:56:14 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:56:14 +0100
Subject: broken pipes, import errors (LONG, INVOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <20020309001354.GH4569@isis.gerrietts.net>
References: <20020309001354.GH4569@isis.gerrietts.net>
Message-ID: <20020309005614.GA1985@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 08/03/02 ? 16:13, Geoff Gerrietts ?crivit:
> [...]
> exec statement
> object = eval(object_nm)
> [...]

If you're really using these versions of exec and eval, you risk
overwriting things in the current local and global namespace.

You could try to provide explicit namespaces to exec and eval.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 3.8 ?C      Wind: 1.2 m/s



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Mar 27 14:49:36 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:49:36 +0100
Subject: Can I use python code to login a website?
References: <a50631f6.0203262119.3b9db7a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7t7a9$e1h$1@norfair.nerim.net>

try this scheme with urllib...

f = urllib.urlopen('http://myname:mypassword at somehost.com/...')


"newgene" <newgene at bigfoot.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
a50631f6.0203262119.3b9db7a4 at posting.google.com...
> Hi, group,
>
>      I am wondering if possible to use python code to login a website
> need username and password, like mail.yahoo.com. Another type of
> website is poping up a authorization box asking for username and
> password instead of a input form within the webpage.
>
> Thanks you in advance.
>
> Newgene




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Fri Mar  8 10:45:30 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:45:30 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:59:57 +0100."
             <3C8899AD.78B134DE@spam.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <E16jMYk-0008H0-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Bj?rn Lindberg <d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se> wrote:

> > Agreed. I relied on that.
> >
> > > In this example s1 will be constructed first followed by s2.
> >
> > And here I am wary. Does the standard prescribe this? For normal
> > expressions at least, you can't rely on evaluation order. But then, in
> > comma separated expressions you can. So maybe this is safe after all.
>
> I believe it is, but I'm not certain. As you say, evaluation order for
> comma separated expressions are defined. I'd have to ask someone with a
> copy of the standard handy for this.

OTOH, evaluation order for the arguments of a call is not defined,
IIRC. To be safe, I wouldn't rely on the destruction order of things
like

    Sentry s1, s2;

Nor-do-I-have-to-as-a-happy-Python-user-ly yr's,

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar 25 07:52:12 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:52:12 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324115311.0457dbb8@202.95.131.154> <mailman.1017031538.14132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7n6it$qc9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Tripp Scott" <tripps81 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017031538.14132.python-list at python.org...
> At 25/03/2002 07:37, brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> thanks for the tip. actually, the essence of what i wanted to
> ask was: "can that SOMETHING be a list of more than one elements
> which will be _flatly_ added to the result list." as another
> example, can i generate this list
>
>   [1,1  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4]

I don't see the pattern.  I presume you mean:
[1,1,  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4,4,4,4 ]

>
> with a list comprehension that contains one 'for' clause?

I think you are asking for a general purpose solution to the
problem of using list comprehensions in an 'extend' rather
than 'append' mode.

The general purpose technique is to build it unflattened and
then wrap it with flatten function.

Applying that general technique to your specific example is easy:

>>> def flatten( lol ):
 ans = []
 map( ans.extend, lol )
 return ans

>>> flatten( [[i]*(i+1) for i in range(1,5)] )
[1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4]


Hope this helps you train your pet Python,


Raymond Hettinger




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 14:19:38 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:19:38 -0600
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
In-Reply-To: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
References: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <15511.36682.256527.232785@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Ralph> With Python-2.2.1c1, I find `make test' fails on my old version
    Ralph> of Linux/x86 and it fails to build on an also old version of AIX.
    Ralph> Should I go straight to SourceForge and fill in bug forms or do
    Ralph> people tend to discuss the problems here first?

    Ralph> I can see the problem with the AIX build.  Linux SIGSEGVs in
    Ralph> test_calendar on a call to strftime.

Ralph,

The strftime call in calendar.py is a bit abusive, so it's not entirely
surprising to me that you're seeing problems.  This test succeeds for me on
my Mandrake system.  Can you run the test_calendar.py script manually and
submit a SF bug report (assign it to "montanaro")?  A debugger traceback
would be helpful as well.  Does the AIX version of strftime support %a, %A,
%b and %B formats?

Thx,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:06 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 22:28:06 -0500
Subject: Simple threaded web-server based on BaseHTTPServer?
References: <rq768.109$ti7.170403328@news.telia.no> <3C5976D0.A3A63A46@stroeder.com> <a3cbdq$muv$1@panix2.panix.com> <3CA36D8D.1080204@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <a80n06$i0c$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3CA36D8D.1080204 at stroeder.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=  <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>Aahz Maruch wrote:
>> In article <3C5976D0.A3A63A46 at stroeder.com>,
>> Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=  <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>In my case (http://web2ldap.de) I'm using threaded BaseHTTPServer
>>>but I'm not really happy with it. Especially since I have to use a
>>>module-wide lock to serialize calls into python-ldap module because
>>>the underlying OpenLDAP libs are not thread-safe. This can block the
>>>whole thing and killing threads on e.g. Linux is not possible.
>>>Having a single-process asyncore design would probably make things
>>>easier.
>> 
>> Add another thread to serialize things instead of using a module-wide
>> lock.
>
>I really wonder how this helps if the call into the underlying module really 
>blocks. BTW: In opposite to my original statement an asyncore design would 
>also not help since the underlying OpenLDAP lib is not designed that way.

I made my suggestion in the context of assuming that your server threads
can continue to interact with the user while waiting for the LDAP call
to complete.  One possible option would be to have your server's LDAP
thread call out to another LDAP server that you write to fork off
processes (that's assuming the LDAP library is concurrent across multiple
processes, of course).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  9 02:24:17 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:24:17 GMT
Subject: short-circuit behavior anomaly?
References: <mailman.1015657336.24581.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BMii8.152501$pN4.7809215@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"logosity" <wecaputo at thoughtworks.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015657336.24581.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> I was working through this tutorial:
> http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_13.txt
>
> Which shows the statements in the following functions (imp and fn)
as
> equivalent:
>
> def pr(s): print s

By default, functions return None, which is false.  For this function
to work right in context below, you must return a true value, such as
1.  If you have copied from tutorial accurately, it is incorrect and
you should report bug.

> def imp():
>     if x == 1: pr('one')
>     elif x == 2: pr('two')
>     else: pr('other')
>
> def fn():
>     (x == 1 and pr('one')) \
>  or (x == 2 and pr('two')) \
>  or (pr('other'))

When pr return None, no 'short-circuit occurs and pr('other') is
called regardless of value of x.  I personally use and/or to simulate
conditional expressions, but one *must* be careful when doing so.

Terry J. Reedy





From mt_horeb at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 08:00:17 2002
From: mt_horeb at yahoo.com (Sloth)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 05:00:17 -0800
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com> <slrnaa7gc7.26a.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3CA3D86A.7080806@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <67abb823.0203290500.3a3a7da1@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the feedback re. Apache.  I appreciate it!

The reason that I'd like to find a native Python script is as follows:
I started to build a proof of concept Web app for a company that
queried a customer database and generated search results.  The company
loved it and wanted to have me create a few "pilots" for salespeople. 
If I can simply have them install Python and install an additional
module or two, it would be easier than asking non-technical sales
folks to also install Apache.

I agree, Apache is very painless.  On the other hand, less is more in
this scenario and, frankly, now I'm just being stubborn and trying to
get Python to act as its own CGI server.  Has anyone had luck making
this work in a Window 9x
environment?

Thanks!



Roger <haaserdnospam at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3CA3D86A.7080806 at yahoo.com>...
> With only a year+ of experience, I second the motion for Apache.  I 
> started with Microsoft PWS, tried a couple of other "simple" solutions 
> and wound up using Apache.  The configuration files tend to look 
> overwhelming as there are a lot of choices, but for the most part the 
> defaults are what you want.
> 
> I would also suggest you take a look at Webware's WebKit at 
> http://webware.sourceforge.net/.  It provides an object-oriented 
> framework for your web applications and makes DEBUGGING your scripts 
> easy (which is what you will need).
> 
> I also use MySQL for a database, and MySQLfront as a gui interface to 
> MySQL.  All of these are free and all have Linux versions (with the 
> exception of MySQLfront).
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> > Sloth wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > 
> >>I've looked at Apache, Xitami, Zope, Medusa, et. al and think they are
> >>wonderful applications.  On the other hand, they are overkill for what
> >>I want to be able to do - have Python start a CGI server, serve a
> >>page, get form data, get data from a database, and display dynamic
> >>content.  I don't need anything industrial strength, just something
> >>that can handle a single user.
> >>
> > 
> > Maybe it's just me, but I often have difficulties to understand the
> > point of the "overkill" argument.
> > 
> > 
> >>Any thoughts?  I sincerely appreciate everyone's help!
> >>
> > 
> > If you can spare 5 megs of RAM and a little disk space, just go for
> > Apache (or Xitami, or whatever). When you're running the webserver and
> > are not using it currently, it'll be swapped out anyway, so why
> > bother?
> > 
> > It's a myth that Apache is complex to get running, here's what you'd
> > need to do on Windows:
> > 
> > 1) Install Python
> > 2) Install Apache
> > 3) edit etc/httpd.conf and add the line
> > 
> >     ScriptInterpreterSource Registry
> > 
> >    at the end of the file.
> > 
> > 4) Write your Python CGI scripts in cgi-bin and name them .py
> > 
> > Gerhard
> >


From writeson at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 19 14:42:07 2002
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 11:42:07 -0800
Subject: py2exe 0.3.1 hangs trying to remove build under Win98SE
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0203191142.1926b089@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm trying to package up a Python2.2 program that uses wxPython with
the py2exe system and I'm having no luck. I open up a DOS window (I'm
running Win98SE) and run the following command line:

python pyexe.py myscript.py

The pyexe.py setup script is something I got from ASPN that is a
generalized setup script for this purpose, I've listed it below:

from distutils.core import setup
import sys, os, py2exe

name = sys.argv[1]
sys.argv[1] = 'py2exe'

sys.path.append(os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(name)))

setup(name=name[:-3], scripts=[name])


At the end of processing, I get the message:
removing 'build\bdist.win32\winexe' (and everything under it)

At this point the DOS window hangs and never returns. In fact I have
trouble killing it with the Task Manager. In addition, at this point
Windows Explorer no longer runs, it comes up, but the window frame is
empty. I have to reboot my machine to get full control back.

The script does create the dist directory where I expect it and there
is a myscript.exe and accompanying DLL's and such there. But if I try
to run that program, a DOS window comes up with various tracebacks in
it about not being able to import various modules. The myscript.py
file runs fine in the interpreter. Anyone have any idea what's going
on here? I'm runnig py2exe version 0.3.1, so I have the latest.

Thanks for your help,
Doug


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 12:44:53 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:44:53 +0000
Subject: optional pass? (was Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and  links (Mar 26))
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA35C49.31397789@ndh.net> <slrnaa6sfc.d02.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrnaa8ofu.jq7.alf@sagittarius.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <slrnaa9a0l.hq8.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:45:50 +0000 (UTC), Alexandre Fayolle <alf at logilab.fr> wrote:
>In article <slrnaa6sfc.d02.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>, phil hunt wrote:
>> True, but i still have to remove the passes when i want to implement 
>> the class.
>
>Why don't you put a docstring ? It will help you document precisely what
>you had in mind when writing the class, and you can keep it when you
>actually write the code. 

3 reasons.

(1) Sometimes the functionality of the method is too obvious to 
require 
one, e.g.:

class Key:
   def encrypt(self, plainText):
   def decrypt(self, cipherText):

I would really hope this is obvious enough not to need one.


(2) Also, I often put a big comment for the whole class, rather than 
scatter little comments for each method, e.g.:


"""***
Foo does blah blah blah

rest
of
long
comment
goes 
in 
here
***"""

class Foo:
   def method1(self):
   def method2(self):
   def method3(self):
   def method4(self):
   def method5(self):


(3) sometimes the pass-less code isn't a function definition, e.g.:


if a == "one":
   do_something()
elif a == "two":
elif a == "three":
else:


Here I've only implemented 1 of the 4 possibilities. I want to be 
able to run my code to test what I've written, before implementing 
the other 3.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sun Mar 10 22:01:54 2002
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:01:54 GMT
Subject: Translating Python to C (was Re: Modulo operator : differences 
 between C and Python)
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com> <mailman.1015802057.4913.python-list@python.org> <ef6o8ugudku03pq8m2tcb4mksep3dgu01v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C1E21.F9120C2B@mega-nerd.com>

Courageous wrote:
> 
> >> Just recently I prototyped a relatively complex algorithm in Python
> >> before converting it to C.
> 
> I'm curious about your experiences. I did something myself recently,
> creating a fairly sophisticated prototype in Python and then implemented
> it in C++. Given that I had all the algorithms worked out and thoroughly
> debugged, it was astounding to me how difficult it was to get properly
> translated and then validated. It took literally 3 times as long or longer
> to get the C++ version implemented and provably functional, this in spite
> of the design time work being included in what it took to do the Python
> implementation.

My experience was that once I had it working and validated in Python 
converting to C was pretty trival. The validation I had done in Python 
allowed me to find the problem in the C version pretty quickly. 80% of 
the whole process was getting the Python code working. 

> Programming in C++ genuinely depresses me.

Thats why I try to avoid C++ :-).

> And I'm an old veteran. I've been using it since the days of C Front, if
> anyone around happens to know what that means. :-)

I never used C Front but did spend a number of years (1990-1995) where
C++ was my main language. Nowadays I only use C++ when I really, REALLY
*REALLY* need C++ features. The rest is split between C and Python.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"Only wimps use tape backup: *real* men just upload their 
important stuff on FTP, and let the rest of the world 
mirror it ;)" -- Linus Torvalds


From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 09:48:58 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:48:58 +0100
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122> <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com> <20020324081829.193$iP@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <20020324094900.445$t3@news.newsreader.com>

I wrote:
> Polish the page with HTML Tidy first, then strip all script code tags,
> parse the resulting HTML to catch the rows you're interested in
> and save them into a DB.

Ups... There is no need to strip client-side script code from the
page. I was confused by a problem with another tool I used several
months ago. I tried htmllib.HTMLParser(...) from Python 2.2 and
works as expected.

Regards,
-Hernan




From guido at python.org  Sun Mar 31 17:52:00 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:52:00 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl> <m3adsp8zie.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA6F012.E2631003@accessforall.nl> <m3adspm1kl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA79401.CFA41B65@python.org>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl> writes:
> 
> > I'd like to know whether this PEP merging all numeric types would also merge
> > the bool type into its evt. hierarchy.
> 
> See for yourself:
> 
> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0228.html
> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0242.html

But see also my comments on these two in
http://www.python.org/doc/essays/pepparade.html; neither PEP is likely to
have any effect on Python's future.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From morton at dennisinter.com  Sun Mar 10 13:59:51 2002
From: morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 10:59:51 -0800
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com> <gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message news:<gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka at 4ax.com>...
> It would be a clear and unambiguous expression _if_ the "in" operator was a
> substring search operator, but it is not.  It is a set membership operator.
> It works EXACTLY the same way on all sequence types: the right-hand operand
> is a sequence, and the left-hand operand is something that can be an
> element of that sequence type.  You are suggesting an unorthogonal change
> just because it is easier to type than:
> 
>    'the quick brown fox'.find('fox')
> 
> No.  That is NOT a good reason to change a language in an inconsistent way.

The 'in' operator is now a verb that can be defined to mean pretty
much any function with two arguments. It cant be a set membership
operator because python doesnt have sets. The issue at stake is that
its meaning should be well understood. Strings are like sequences in
that their individual elements (characters ONLY) can be accessed as a
sequence, but there are important differences in the kinds of things
people want to do with strings.

>From the persepective of an english speaker, the the string 'fox' is
IN the string 'the quick brown fox'. Under the covers, the IN operator
is defined as the __contains__ function. Clearly, the string 'the
quick brown fox' CONTAINS the string 'fox'. I think the verb IN means
something slightly different for strings than it does for sequences
and dicts.

Check this out:

('fox' in 'the quick brown fox')
('the quick brown fox'.find('fox') != -1)

Which of these expressions is clearer, more intuitive and convenient?

I appreciate your thoughtfull comments, and I agree with you that
inconsistency should be avoided, but I would assert that this should
not be at the cost of intuitiveness, convenience and clarity.


From kk71878 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 15:12:29 2002
From: kk71878 at hotmail.com (Kevin Killingsworth)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 12:12:29 -0800
Subject: failed assert when importing a boost.python-created library from an embedded python interpreter
Message-ID: <7f678ff6.0203081212.4c2e4cd6@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm very close to doing something very cool (IMO), but I've got one
last roadblock before I can get there.  First off, I've got a C++
program that has an embedded Python interpreter.  I want the Python
interpreter to share the same datamodel as the C++ program itself, so
I created a Boost.python (www.boost.org) library out of my datamodel. 
It loads perfectly from a command-line python interpreter, but not the
one that is embedded inside my program.  It comes up with this:

classinfo.cxx:37: class_descriptor::class_descriptor(const char*,
unsigned int, void (*)(object*)): Assertion `!find_class(class_name)'
failed.

I can import sys and such, but not my own library (perhaps because
it's not builtin?)  I know I'm probably just missing a step, but I
have looked through the docs and can't find it.  Can anyone help?

Thanks,

--Kevin Killingsworth


From lac at strakt.com  Sat Mar  9 13:35:29 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:35:29 +0100
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Chermside <mcherm@destiny.com> 
   of "Mon, 08 Apr 2002 14:33:04 EDT."
Message-ID: <200203091835.g29IZTtB024981@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> The second complain is significant (I think). That is the following:
>         for i in range(len(mySequence)):
> This is something that I use all the time, and more relevently it is 
> something that BEGINNERS use all the time. 

Interesting.  Do you mean 'beginners who have never programmed before'
or 'beginners who have lots of habits from other languages'.  I need
actual hard index numbers like this rather rarely - mostly as arguments
to the Tkinter grid window manager to tell it which column to grid
my widget.  And even then I find it easier to use zip.

There are some people who really, really, really hate using

while 1:
   break on some condition

they go crazy actually trying to calculate all the times when they
should be in a loop rather than the more straightforward calculation
of when it is time to leave.  

Since you mention Java, I wonder if overcoming this habit is a common
labour for Java programmers that are learning python - moreso than
those who have come from other languages.  It would be fun to run some
tests.  I can't provide any datapoints -- it's the Smalltalk I have
to take out of my python.  I liked PEP 276 because I like the idea
of integer iteration.  But I have deep suspicions that this indicates
that there is something wrong with me, not that there is something 
wrong with the people who do not like the idea at all.

Laura Creighton




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 28 21:29:15 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 18:29:15 -0800
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com> <hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203281829.6e2cf785@posting.google.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>...
> "John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote ...
> > philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote in message
>  news:<slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>...
> > > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
>  wrote:
> > > >Jim Dennis wrote:
> > > >>         freq = {}
> > > >>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
> > > >>                         else:                           freq[word] =
>  1
>  
> > > >Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
> > >
> > > IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works
> > > correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
> > >
> > > IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
> >
> > Python *could* be made like that with the explict dict() constructor
> > ... something like:
> >
> > freq = dict(default=0)
> > ...
> > freq[word] += 1
> 
> This was a feature of the Icon language. But Icon had no explicit literal
> representation for dictionaries (or tables, as I think they were called) as
> far as I can remember, so it was easy to make the default value an argument
> to a constructor function. It's not obvious how you could indicate the
> default without calling a method.
> 

See above: freq = dict(default=0)
I think that I'm proposing indicating the default by having a keyword
argument ("default")on the new-in-2.2 constructor ("dict"); what do
you think that I meant?


From wmistar at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 00:18:54 2002
From: wmistar at yahoo.com (Will G.)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 21:18:54 -0800
Subject: Python calling C with callback to Python - crash!
References: <eb636178.0203162055.58faa708@posting.google.com> <j43cyz6qmd.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <eb636178.0203182118.5d99253a@posting.google.com>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message news:<j43cyz6qmd.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> wmistar at yahoo.com (Will G.) writes:
> 
> > Appreciate any help!
> 
> When you run the program in a debugger, what does the debugger say
> where it crashes?

Since I don't have the debug version of python21.dll, the VStudio
debugger simply stated that the crash is in python21.dll.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 07:52:00 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:52:00 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C9991C0.4080102@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C99D770.57345464@engcorp.com>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Communication skills are, first and foremost, the thing I
> > look for in hiring.  [...] Next are adaptability [...]
> > Design skills are useful.  Debugging skills are very valuable [...]
> 
> Peter, what do you think about qualifying problem sets like what
> arsDigita had? <http://www.arsdigita.com/boot-camp/psets/>

I think that's an interesting sounding name for something.
What is it?  I'll assume (without taking the time to try
to figure it out... care to tell me?) that those are basically
little exams which they use to judge candidates.  If so,
you already know my answer: as I said, specific knowledge 
of language syntax is secondary, since I'm more concerned
about finding people with the skills I mentioned.  

If arsDigita (you'd think a company would know enough not
to put the word "arse" in their name...) has tests which
evaluate communication skills, flexibility and ability
to learn new things, and design and debugging skills,
then I think their qualifying problem sets are a very 
good idea...

-Peter


From gminick at hacker.pl  Tue Mar 12 12:12:00 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:12:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How do you conver output of "popen('ls')" to a list?
References: <3C737245.BC5D7164@macrozon.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8sdnl.e2.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.
Dnia Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:54:13 +0100, husam napisa?(a):
>thanks for reply.

---------
#!/usr/local/bin/python2.2

import os

blah = os.popen('ls').read()
i,n,tabl,blen=0,0,[],len(blah)

while i < blen:
   tmp = i
   i = blah.index('\n', i)
   tabl.append(blah[tmp:i])
   n+=1
   i+=1

for a in tabl:
   print a
---------

...just because readlines() forgot to cut '\n' ;))

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://hacker.pl/gminick/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) klub.chip.pl ]


From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Tue Mar  5 14:30:24 2002
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 13:30:24 -0600
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1015357223.673257@rexx.com>

Here is a related question -- Is there a search program for
structured text files, in particular something that searches XML
files.

I know about sgrep, and I've made Python wrappers for it.  Are
their an
y others?

You can find sgrep at http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/jjaakkol/sgrep.html.
My Python wrappers for sgrep are at http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman.

  - Dave

Doug Farrell <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a text search engine that works with
> Python? What I'm looking for specifically is something that will compress
> the text and still allow searches and retrievals that can be exact matches
> or proximity based. The text I want to compress and search is huge (70 megs)
> and should compress down to half, not including any index files that might
> be required by the search engine. Anyone know of anything like this or any
> ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Doug Farrell
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Sat Mar  9 17:59:13 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:59:13 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
Message-ID: <3c8a9261.149508269@news>

the round() function will sometimes return a predictable result, as
in:

round(45.67891, 2)
>>> 45.68

but sometimes it will return something like:

round(56.78923, 2)
>>> 56.789999999999999

2.1 and 2.2 both behave this way on two different (Windows) computers.
What's going on here?

Bruce Robbins



From owen at xastrox.xwashingtonx.edu.invalid  Fri Mar  8 15:58:20 2002
From: owen at xastrox.xwashingtonx.edu.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:58:20 -0800
Subject: List of Dictionaries
References: <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6b8lc$t06$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550 at posting.google.com>,
 lenny_self at hotmail.com (Lenny Self) wrote:

>I am having a problem I was hoping someone might be able to help me
>with.  I am attempting to append several dictionaries to a list for
>further processing, however I am seeing some rather odd behavior.
>
>When I add the first dictionary element to the list all is well.  When
>I add the second element to the list both the first and second element
>reference the second dictionary that was added.  The behavior
>continues whenever I add an element.  So, if I add, say 50
>dictionaries, all of the listes elements reference the last dictionary
>I added....

My guess is that mail.getData() is returning a reference to a dictionary 
it uses internally, rather than returning a copy of that dictionary. 
Hence you end up with multiple references to the same dictionary.

Usually, whenever I return a list, dictionary or other mutable 
application, I return a copy to avoid this problem.(In some situations 
this is may be appropriate or impractical, but that usually indicates 
poor class design - the contents of an object should usually remain 
private).

If you cannot or prefer not to change the application returning the 
data, then change the calling program to make a copy of the dicationary 
before using it.

-- Russell
-- 
Return      owen
address     astro
garbled     washington
in header   edu


From offer at sgi.com  Mon Mar 25 16:33:49 2002
From: offer at sgi.com (Nhi Vanye)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:33:49 GMT
Subject: Porting a Python app to IRIX -- need help
References: <KDLm8.103638$uA5.85596@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <m34rj4bnzy.fsf@adsl-216-62-149-210.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net>
Message-ID: <a7o53t$lqvga$2@fido.engr.sgi.com>

$ from jody at adsl-216-62-149-210.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net -#190497 | sed "1,$s/^/> /"
>
>
>"Paul F. Dubois" <dubois at users.sourceforge.net> writes:
>
>> I am trying to get a Python-based app running on an SGI running IRIX 6.5. I
>> am running into a problem involving some objects being compiled "n32" and
>> others "o32". The linker refuses to link them.
>> 
>> I got pretty far by setting environment variable CC to "cc" but then it
>> complained that the X11 library is o32. Can an SGI person tell me whether
>> o32 or n32 is "normal" and what I tell the compiler to be sure I get that?
>> 
>
>To force the compilers and linkers to use only one ABI set the
>environment variable SGI_ABI for example:
>
>setenv SGI_ABI "-n32"


This doesn't always work (for example you don't appear to be able to do
"-n32 -mips3" to guarantee building mips3 on a mips4 platform.

Other tricks I've used in the past (for other projects) is to con autoconf
by running.

	./configure --x-libraries=/usr/lib32

It might work for python, I haven't tested it.

Anyway, back to the question, n32 is "normal", you'll get much better
performance from the compilers, and all the system applications are n32
(which means you wont need to have two copies of libc in memory)

>Jody Winston

richard.
-- 
Richard Offer                         Technical Lead, Trust Technology.
"Specialization is for insects"
__________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer/



From michael at amtec.com  Wed Mar 27 12:53:30 2002
From: michael at amtec.com (Michael Saunders)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:53:30 -0800
Subject: Segregating Interpreter Sessions.
Message-ID: <3CA2071A.BBF576AE@amtec.com>

I have a C application embedding the python interpreter in which I would like to
execute python commands. I would like the set of commands to be executed in it's
own interpreter. My use of the code looks something like this (error handling
left out):


/* initialize python somewhere at the beginning of my C application */
Py_Initialize();

...

/*
 * somewhere in the middle of my C application
 * execute some python code in it's own interpreter
 */
PyThreadState *Interpreter = Py_NewInterpreter();
PyRun_SimpleFile(PythonFile, PythonFileName);
Py_EndInterpreter(Interpreter);

...

/* cleanup python somewhere at the end of my C application */

Py_Finalized();



My application is not using threads but after reading the documentation it
appeared that using Py_NewInterpreter() was the correct way to create a "nearly"
private area to run python code. When I get to the Py_Finalized() code I get the
following fatal error from Python:

  Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
  Abort(coredump)


Why am I getting this? Do I need to do more thread initialization even though I
am not using threads? Should I be using some other function to create a separate
interpreter environment? If so how do I tell PyRun_SimpleFile to execute in that
environment.

Thanks,
Michael



From dswegen at software.plasmon.com  Tue Mar 19 07:51:47 2002
From: dswegen at software.plasmon.com (Dave Swegen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:51:47 +0000
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
In-Reply-To: <a778r2$279v$1@norfair.nerim.net>
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <a778r2$279v$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20020319125147.GE19059@software.plasmon>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 01:00:40PM +0100, Gillou wrote:
> There's no python preprocessor.
> You can make "safe" config files for simple values (numbers, strings, simple
> lists) with the ConfigParser standard package.
> It's use and API are described in the standard Python doc.
> 

That looks exactly like what I'm looking for. Cheers!

Dave

> "Dave Swegen" <dswegen at software.plasmon.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
> mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list at python.org...
> > Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define? I'd
> > like to have what essentially is a header files with easily modifiable
> > values (these will then be used to give default attribute values to
> > various classes). Or are globals the only way to go?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> >



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 15:20:26 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 20:20:26 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net> <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com> <a6mncn$koc$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <a6ocaa$qpa$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:15:43 -0700, "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:
[... good optimization advice, nicely elaborating the idea of precomputing ...]
>If your lists are really long (O(100,000) or more?) then you might find
>that the append starts taking too long -- append is asymptotically O(n**n)
whoa! can that be true? I hope not. It is very cheap to tie a singly linked
list into a circle and point to the last node when pointing to the list as a whole.
Then append cost should be independent of length (other than indirect effects
from memory allocation hiccups). Note that accessing the first element is just
one indirection from the last, so a simple adjustment to the base pointer after
an append makes it into a prepend.

If it's doubly linked, appending should already be constant time.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar  2 15:14:43 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 21:14:43 +0100
Subject: Possible to fake object type?
References: <3c80e76b@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5A538FB6E0cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3c80fb6d@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5B7ABFE1F5cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3c812217@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91C5D8B5BFC09cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote 
in news:3c812217 at nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de:
>> def __getattr__(self, name): try:
>>                return self.__dict__[name]
>>        except NameError: return getattr(gtk.HandleBox, name)
> 
> This is basically the same as I have now. But the thing is:
> __getattr__ only gets called when the attribute _doesn't_ exist,

you're right - i thought this has changed in py 2.2 but i never used 
it that way.

maybe you could replace your classes __dict__ with an empty one so 
that __getattr__ get called?

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Tue Mar 19 18:59:02 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:59:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276@newsc.telia.net> <slrna9cpb2.ddl.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <p0ul8.33208$l93.6520713@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <slrna9fk66.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <p0ul8.33208$l93.6520713 at newsb.telia.net>, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>> >the original code used Server -- after all, the object is
>> >representing a remote server.
>>
>> Well, that's one way of seeing it; but it *is* an xmlrpc *client*, no?
>
>no, it's a client support class.  your program is the client.

Point taken.

></F>

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 26 01:26:41 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:26:41 GMT
Subject: turning a python script to windows service
References: <c5e68843.0203252143.19ccdd06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA014BC.6090204@skippinet.com.au>

kedai wrote:
> hi
> i've a simple script that just prints time.time().  how can i turn it
> to a windows service?
> 
> do i need to do anythng special, apart from subclassing from
> win32serviceutil.ServiceFramework and defining SvcDoRun, SvcStop, etc.
> (the o'reilly python for win32 does help a bit, but i think i need
> more prodding :P)
> 
> i have turned the sript to run as a service with srvany, but it never
> prints anything, or do anything useful.  but when run in debug mode,
> it does print.

When run as a service, the print statements go nowhere useful - they run 
in the background.  Try looking up info in win32traceutil - this will 
allow you to see your print statement when running as a service.

Mark.



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 12:01:40 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:01:40 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <rmsf8u8ieh0dbl1i9rjd7gbg2vvotaqtop@4ax.com> <7x8z946jsq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8hrjk.jj.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 07 Mar 2002 15:27:01 -0800, Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:
>> >This syntax could easily be extend, to allow a step other than 1:
>> >
>> >   for i = 1 to 10 step 3:
>> 
>> Or:
>> 
>> 	for i = 10 to 1 step -1:
>
>This is fine.
>
>> Further, in ranges which step from high to low, the step can be
>> inferred.
>
>This doesn't sound good.  Suppose you say
>
>      for i = a to b:
>
>where you don't know at compile time the values of a and b.
>Do you really want it to count backwards if b < a?   I usually wouldn't.

Nor would I.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 29 18:04:27 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 00:04:27 +0100
Subject: Where's the "news" section on python.org?
References: <496p8.71$l%4.11431@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <m3d6xnugas.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Chris Wright" <caw at cs.mu.oz.au> writes:

> It seems that the "News" section on python.org has vanished from my
> screen...

The ANNOUNCEMENTS block is still there. I guess you are referring to
the list item

  News - recent Python announcements

That has been pointing to

http://www.python.org/News.html

which does not really provide "recent Python announcements", and
hasn't been changed in a long time.

Or is it something else you were looking for?

Regards,
Martin


From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Mar  6 10:03:35 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:03:35 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20 does not work
References: <mailman.1014671543.6120.python-list@python.org> <3C848CBF.9000201@vip.fi> <j4664b73qp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C84F129.70905@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <3c862de3.155247774@news.laplaza.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:23:22 GMT, pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi>
wrote:


I don't have access to an HPUX machine so this help is going to be
minimal.

h_errno normally comes out of <netdb.h>, check if it's there and if
it's being included.  C library constants are a bit of a problem, as
folks seem to keep inventing different ways to make them thread-safe.
You may have to root around a bit and see what HPUX has done.

In the other one, there's no shared ncurses lib,  and the snipped line
is explicitly building a position-independent (PIC) shared object, but
is linking it with a static library which containts non-PIC code.
Since you presumably had to build ncurses yourself (a guess since it's
being found in /usr/local), you might try rebuilding ncurses.

I know this is buried in the bit that is handled with distutils and
while I like what distutils brings us, it's sometimes a little harder
to trace how these decisions were made before the compilation actually
kicks off.

:
:--------------020604040107000300090304
:Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
:Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
:
:True, HP-UX's default compiler is only meant for compliling the kernel
:therefore  I installed  binutils v2.11.2,  gcc v3.01 and gmake v3.79.1 from
:HP's software repository and tried compiling with this script:
:
:#! /usr/bin/sh
:export CCOPTS='+z'
:unset LANG
:gmake distclean
:CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-threads=no --without-cxx 
:--prefix=/opt/python
:
:gmake fails twice:
:
:1)
:/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getaddrinfo.c:544: 
:warning: `h_error' might be used uninitialized in this funcn
:In file included from 
:/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:239:
:/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c: In 
:function `getnameinfo':
:/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c:184: 
:`h_errno' undeclared (first use in this function)
:/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c: In 
:function `gethost_common':
:/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:1975: 
:`h_errno' undeclared (first use in this function)
:WARNING: building of extension "_socket" failed: command 'gcc' failed 
:with exit status 1 
:
:2)
:gcc -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I. 
:-I/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/./Include -I/usr/local/incluo
:ld -b build/temp.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_cursesmodule.o 
:-L/usr/local/lib -lncurses -o build/lib.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_curl
:ld: DP relative code in file /usr/local/lib/libncurses.a(lib_addch.o) - 
:shared library must be position
:    independent.  Use +z or +Z to recompile.
:WARNING: building of extension "_curses" failed: command 'ld' failed 
:with exit status 1 
:

Mats Wichmann



From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:53 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:22:53 GMT
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee> <3CA10CA8.DFF48898@gmx.de> <7x663iam5u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hreo8.273877$uv5.24122776@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
> Ingo Linkweiler <i.linkweiler at gmx.de> writes:
>> - Do YOU think, it is more easy to learn python than perl, java or C++  or
>> ..... ?
> 
> Perl may be easiest to do some simple things, but gets horribly
> complicated as you try to do harder things.  Python is easier than
> java and java is easier than C++.

Agreed.  As long as we're stating personal opinions, C is harder than
Python but easier than Java or C++, both in learning the language and
writing large, maintainable projects.  OO is not a myth, it does help
for a certain (large) class of problems, but the complexity of the C++
language and the Java libraries more than outweigh the benefits of
in-language support for a particular methodology.

This is not to say that you can't write maintainable C++/Java, but it's
been my experience that large projects in those languages tend towards
entropy faster than large C projects and far faster than large Python
projects.

>> - What do you think about the syntax of Python? Is it easy to use, or do you
>> have any problems with it?
> 
> Mostly easy.  There's some surprises
> 
Yes.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 20 16:32:43 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 22:32:43 +0100
Subject: Unicode problem
References: <3c98f206.24909027@news.tiscali.no> <OG6m8.26452$n4.5185028@newsc.telia.net> <3c98faad.27124282@news.tiscali.no>
Message-ID: <m34rjborgk.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

gargravarr at whoever.com writes:

> >if you don't tell Python what 8-bit encoding you want
> >to use for a Unicode string, Python will assume ASCII.
> 
> How do I tell Python what 8-bit encoding I want to use ? Can I tell
> Python so I don't have to use encode?

No. Who is this "I" anyway? If there was a way to set it at run-time,
different libraries might compete in setting it to different values.
Explicit is better than implicit: specify an encoding when you use it.

Notice that "iso-8859-1" should not be used in HTML unless it is
declared through the Content-type HTTP header. If you want to generate
XHTML, the default encoding assumed by the receiver will be "utf-8".

Regards,
Martin


From marduk at python.net  Sun Mar 17 02:49:03 2002
From: marduk at python.net (marduk)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 01:49:03 -0600
Subject: test
Message-ID: <1016351344.12092.36.camel@mickey>

please ignore.




 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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From stevena at neosynapse.net  Tue Mar  5 10:42:38 2002
From: stevena at neosynapse.net (Steven D. Arnold)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:42:38 -0500
Subject: PDF solutions?
Message-ID: <90472403578.20020305104238@neosynapse.net>

I'm looking for low- or no-cost solutions to the following PDF
problems.

(1) I need to be able to replace form data in a PDF file with
arbitrary strings.

(2) I need to be able to merge multiple PDF files together.

I have found several commercial solutions; I'm looking for open-source
options.  I have looked at ReportLab and on the surface it doesn't
appear to have ready-to-go functionality in this regard, but maybe I'm
missing something.  Any solution that solves even one of these
problems would be great.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.


steve





From mgconno at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 14:57:37 2002
From: mgconno at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 11:57:37 -0800
Subject: How to pass a dtml-var to a python script.
Message-ID: <e6ff04bc.0203201157.245555a0@posting.google.com>

I am New to python and Zope and am confused about how to pass a value
I hold inside of a <dtml-var ... > to a python script: here's what I
am doing(or doing wrong):

<dtml-var "ContextSession(REQUEST)">
<dtml-let choices="REQUEST.SESSION['choices']">
<dtml-let myTissue="choices['tissue']">
<dtml-let myHistology="choices['histology']">
<dtml-let mySubtype="choices['subtype']">
<dtml-var "CMAPContext(CORE_HOST, 'Context.jsp', myTissue,
myHistology, mySubtype)">

ContextSession is a python script that extracts parameters from the
URL and puts
them inside of the REQUEST.SESSION.choices placeholder. I then want to
take them
out of the session and pass them to the CMAPContext() python script,
but the way I am doing it doesn't work and I can't find any
documentation on how to do this.

Thanks,

Mike


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar  4 17:34:16 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 22:34:16 GMT
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
References: <mailman.1015266376.28131.python-list@python.org> <a60ijn$al6h5$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1015273871.26497.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a60sp8$v1c$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:12 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    >> Is the permission model there even remotely similar to what I'm used
>    >> to on Unix systems?
>
>    Thomas> No, I don't think so.
>
>I was afraid of that.
>
>    >> I poked around posixmodule.c, but it makes next to no use of uids and
>    >> gids.  As far as I can tell, Windows doesn't know about uid_t or
>    >> gid_t, though it has a struct _stat type whose st_uid and st_gid
>    >> fields are shorts, so I can work around the missing types.
>
>    Thomas> st_uid and st_gid are always set zo zero under Win NT:
>    Thomas> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt__stat.2c_._wstat.2c_._stati64.2c_._wstati64.asp
>
>Thanks for the pointer.  This takes me someplace weird in the msdn website,
>most likely because I'm using Opera instead of MSIE.  I'll have to fiddle
>with that a bit I think.
>
>    Thomas> Are you maybe looking for the _access function?
>    Thomas> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt__access.2c_._waccess.asp
>
>Perhaps.  On Unix, definitely not.
>
Maybe have a look at GetFileSecurity & related, which is supported by NT (not 95/98).
It'll lead you to security descriptor info etc. Find it via MSVC++6 help>Index... and
type GetFileSecurity in the slot. There's a lot of 'see also' and other functions in the group.

Maybe Mark Hammond knows of some real python experience with it. (I don't).
HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter





From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Wed Mar 13 15:50:16 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:50:16 GMT
Subject: sorting nested dictionary
References: <dcuj8.9914$k5.3664995@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <3C8F1B79.8000607@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <cYOj8.10160$k5.3799615@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

thanks.  the following solution was also sent, seems to work, but i don't
know why ...

---------------------------------------------------------
from pprint import pprint
h = {'ids': {'2778xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.6, 'raw': 5.0},
             '3059xxxxx': {'weighted': 6.1, 'raw': 6.0},
             '3188xxxxx': {'weighted': 3.2, 'raw': 4.0},
             '3216xxxxx': {'weighted': 10.1, 'raw': 7.0},
             '3257xxxxx': {'weighted': 9.7, 'raw': 9.0},
             '3266xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.8, 'raw': 3.0},}}

def compare(a, b):
    return cmp(a[1]['weighted'], b[1]['weighted'])

pairs = h['ids'].items()
pairs.sort(compare)

pprint (pairs)

----------------------------------------------------------

"Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message news:3C8F1B79.8000607 at mxm.dk...
> dsavitsk wrote:
>
>
> > i would like to sort this portion by 'weighted'.  is there a quick (as
in
> > programming time, not sorting time) better way to do this other than
dumping
> > the values to a list, sorting, and realigning the data?  that seems so
> > unpythonic to me somehow.
>
> How do you mean "sort" a dictionary? A dictionary will allways return
> the items in a random order.
>
> What you mean is probably that you want a list of keys that are sorted
> according to the value of weighted?
>
> Then you just create a list of tuples with the values you want to sort
> on first, and the key in the end of the tuple. This list you sort with
> the built in 'sort()'
>
> untested:
>
> dict = {'ids': {'2778xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.6, 'raw': 5.0},
>           '3059xxxxx': {'weighted': 6.1, 'raw': 6.0},
>           '3188xxxxx': {'weighted': 3.2, 'raw': 4.0},
>           '3216xxxxx': {'weighted': 10.1, 'raw': 7.0},
>           '3257xxxxx': {'weighted': 9.7, 'raw': 9.0},
>           '3266xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.8, 'raw': 3.0},}}
>
> sortedList = []
> for key, val in dict['ids'].items():
>      sortedList.append((val['weighted'],key))
> sortedList.sort()
> sortedKeys = [item[1] for item in sortedList]
>
> regards Max M
>




From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  1 22:18:27 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:18:27 -0600
Subject: PEP 263 comments
In-Reply-To: <m3pu2og2rh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMEHFDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

I've been following this rather closely and thinking a lot about it,
and concluded that this is too big a headache to be believed.

Ideally, from the programmer's perspective:

 * All my existing Python code should continue to run.
 * I shouldn't have to understand what Unicode is, if all I want
   is to bang out a quick script to say "hello world" in my native
   language.
 * I should be able to send Python files to other people in
   other countries, and they should run fine there too.
 * I should be able to use 'print' on strings and unicode strings
   and get sensible output (I'll know it when I see it <wink>).
 * Comments shouldn't affect the meaning of code.
 * Random binary garbage in comments should be ignored, just like
   it is today.

Unfortunately it's all impossible.  I think MvL's proposal comes
about as close as anyone can today, but it's still yucky, and it's
*definitely* an abuse of Emacs's "-*- coding: -*-" magic (my main
objection).

I'm still holding out for an impossible ideal (or at least *clean*)
solution.  But of course it's not my opinion that matters <wink>...

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From rstephens at vectron.com  Tue Mar  5 00:44:20 2002
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 21:44:20 -0800
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <3c8087eb$0$18514$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0203042144.805e13@posting.google.com>

I saw your upcoming book, and trhat was a factor in my considering to
buy Black Adder. I wasn't aware it was already available ;-)))


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Mar  5 04:39:26 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 10:39:26 +0100
Subject: Compiling Python 2.2  for HPUX 10.20 does not work
References: <mailman.1014671543.6120.python-list@python.org> <3C848CBF.9000201@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <j4664b73qp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> writes:

> I tried the build script below in HP-UX 10.20
> ( HP-UX B.10.20 A 9000/777 2002144332 two-user license)
> and got the following errors during make:
> 
> cc -Ae -c -DNDEBUG -O -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o
> Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
> (Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -A option is available only with the
> C/ANSI C product; ignored.
> (Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -O option is available only with the
> C/ANSI C product; ignored.

It seems that you are using the bundled compiler. Python source code
is ANSI C, you need an ANSI C compiler to compile it. Try either the
HP ANSI C compiler, or gcc (the former being recommended).

Regards,
Martin


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 17:23:02 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:23:02 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
 Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

>  Perceived lack.  IE, this is a solution looking for a problem.  I read it
> and really have to ask.... why?  If people have a problem with it they just
> need to flip open their Python book and take a few seconds to look it up.

The situation where I came across this perceived lack was attempting to 
use Python syntax to explain the algorithms in an algorithms class 
(useful exercise btw, I think the students gained from being able to see 
code that actually worked instead of pseudocode, and Python allows many 
algorithms to be expressed clearly without distracting the students with 
lots of unnecessary pointer-banging).

Some algorithms (especially in dynamic programming) are expressed most 
naturally in terms of integer loops, the ranges of the loops are often 
closed rather than open or sometimes need to go in backwards rather than 
forward order.  Python's range() syntax makes this awkward and detracts 
from the reason I wanted to use Python: a simple syntax that expresses 
algorithms cleanly and understandably, that does not force students to 
buy Python books (this is very much not a programming class) or look up 
unfamiliar syntax, and that also is able to run those algorithms 
directly.

I realize that's a different purpose than most working Python 
programmers, but anything that leads to greater readability and easy of 
understanding should be helpful in that world too.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 13:47:13 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 13:47:13 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a87ljh$ofu$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters  <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
>[Ralph Corderoy, to Guido]
>>
>> What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
>> elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of Boolean
>> above.
>
>Actually, he didn't.  True story: we (PythonLabs) recently chatted with
>Jim Fulton (Zope Corp's CTO, Guido's boss, and very long-time Python
>user) about truth values in Python.  Jim declaimed that he always
>wished Python had a function to convert Python's notion of true/false
>into an integer 1/0, and suggested that "truth()" would be a good name
>for it.  He didn't realize that operator.truth() was already there, and
>does exactly what he asked for.  I had a nagging suspicion, so dug into
>the CVS history then, and discovered that operator.truth() was added
>for Python 1.4 -- and the code was contributed by (tada!) Jim Fulton.
>He did the work in the last millennium, and simply forgot all about it
>then.

But what do you think of changing bool() to truth()?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 04:23:28 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 09:23:28 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8406g$2hg$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Guido,

>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
> 
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

I've not coded heavily in a language with a boolean type since Fortran.
I'm willing to give it a go though.

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).

I'd much prefer true and false, but then I'd like none too.  Given the
DarkAlley we've already started down I guess True and False would be
better as more consistent within the language.  Any chance of built-in
constants being available as lower-case too?  Or just true and false
for the moment?

>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).

Definitely not, that would just lead to more long-winded source for
little gain.

>        Personally, I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally
>        reasonable to me.

Absolutely.

>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.

Unlike Tim to produce such a poor reason.  Has he been paraphrased a
little too much?

>        I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change
>        those to return a bool.

Right.

Cheers,


Ralph.



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar  5 09:54:34 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:54:34 +0100
Subject: Can Python do this?
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1015316109.21725.python-list@python.org> <3C854603.8F567948@gol.ge>
Message-ID: <3C84DC2A.6020400@bigfoot.de>

Giorgi Lekishvili wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>>Le 04/03/02 ? 12:51, Robert Oschler ?crivit:
>>> [calling a function by name]
>>This can easily be done with the built-ins eval and exec. But in 99 % of
>>all cases, it's a really bad idea to use them. Perhaps you can tell us
>>what you're trying to accomplish anyway? There's usually a better way
>>than (ab)using eval/exec > Hi!
 >
> Can you tell me little bit more why is this a bad idea to use exec/eval?

Because they're
- unnecessary
- ugly
- unsafe

The defaults of exec and eval use the locals() and globals() of the 
environment they're executed in. This can lead to problems that are 
quite difficult to debug. So, if use them at all, most probably better 
give them arguments for the local and global dictionary, too.

The reason I don't like them is that they're can almost always be 
replaced by an indrection, like a dictionary that maps to functions. 
Using eval/exec may be a quick hack for not having to think of a real 
algorithm, but IMHO you're only getting ugly and difficult-to-understand 
code. Btw. I used to think I need exec to import modules dynamically, 
but for this special case, there's an __import__ builtin that does just 
this.

Also it's a big no-no to run any code that you can't absolutely trust in 
exec/eval. If one really need to do this (again: I'd say chances are 99 
% that you don't ;-), one better takes a look at the bastion module before.

> Where can I find more information?
I think you can fnid better explanations on http://groups.google.com/ 
I've seen this discussed here more than once.

Here's a post from Alex Martelli, for example:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=9hlhkl02cu9%40enews1.newsguy.com&hl=en

In the end, I'm thinking of eval/exec as a last resort, if all 
OOP/structural programming ways to solve a problem would be too much a 
PITA. Think of it like gotos and casts to void* in C, too much of it and 
you have an ugly unmaintainable mess.
ciao,

Gerhard



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 16 12:42:13 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:42:13 +0000
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org> <ayQj8.73101$hO6.5843911@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <slrna8vr25.rbm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <slrna970vl.pf.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:18:13 +0000 (UTC), Huaiyu Zhu <huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:39:02 GMT, Terry Reedy <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [Clark C . Evans]
>>> | Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
>>> | does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
>>> | as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
>>> | consistent, and quite elegant.
>>>
>>> I would like to see:
>>>     .keys()
>>>     .items()
>>>     .iterkeys()
>>>     .iteritems()
>>
>>I like this idea too.  Best suggestion so far for replacing
>>range(len(skjf))./
>
>Question:  Which is better:  items(x) or x.items()?

The latter, for compatibility with dictionaries. Functionality 
should be:

ar = ['a','b','c']

ar.keys()  =>  [0,1,2]
ar.items()  =>  [(0,'a'), (1,'b'), (2,'c')]

>I think items(x) can just piggy-back on the current iterator protocol, and
>can be made to work on any iteratable objects.
>
>On the other hand, x.items() has to be implemented by each and every
>list-like classes.  Their subclasses need to override them whenever
>necessary. 
>
>So else being equal, I'd prefer items(x) to x.items().

Could always have both.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From rony.steelandt at bucodi.com  Wed Mar  6 04:13:46 2002
From: rony.steelandt at bucodi.com (Rony)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 01:13:46 -0800
Subject: PDF solutions?
References: <mailman.1015343048.21786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b34d3835.0203060113.23b92fc5@posting.google.com>

The piddle library allows you to create PDF files, with a fair
    degree of graphical complexity. Otherwise you might want to try
    reportlabs software, which also creates PDFs.


"Steven D. Arnold" <stevena at neosynapse.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015343048.21786.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm looking for low- or no-cost solutions to the following PDF
> problems.
> 
> (1) I need to be able to replace form data in a PDF file with
> arbitrary strings.
> 
> (2) I need to be able to merge multiple PDF files together.
> 
> I have found several commercial solutions; I'm looking for open-source
> options.  I have looked at ReportLab and on the surface it doesn't
> appear to have ready-to-go functionality in this regard, but maybe I'm
> missing something.  Any solution that solves even one of these
> problems would be great.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.
> 
> 
> steve


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Tue Mar 26 14:08:32 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:08:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017128020.13682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa1hpg.jhl.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

timbot wrote:
>Read the docs for python-mode, especially for py-indent-region (not the same
>as the rigid py-shift-region).  I wrote that more than 8 years ago; I doubt
>Barry has broken it <wink>.

Just tried it - marvelous!  I didn't know it, but I haven't got much need
for it either, thanks to the excellent job your python-mode has already done
automatically.  Yet another proof that bots are so much ahead of humans.

Huaiyu


From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Tue Mar 26 19:05:10 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:05:10 +0100
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee>
Message-ID: <3CA10CB6.F6EF8595@gmx.de>

I?m writing a diploma paper on rapid prototyping and python at education.
I am interested in your experiences with python, too, including the time you
needed to learn python.

- Do YOU think, it is more easy to learn python than perl, java or C++  or
..... ?
- What do you think about the syntax of Python? Is it easy to use, or do you
have any problems with it?
- Is here anybody who learned Python as first language?
- Where do you see disadvantages of Python?

Ingo




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 09:58:51 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:58:51 -0600
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <Xns91C993F0DB5BEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org>
        <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com>
        <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
        <Xns91C993F0DB5BEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <15494.11947.195706.267254@beluga.mojam.com>

    Duncan> I vote for (3):
    Duncan>   db.query("""SELECT    foo, bar
    Duncan>               FROM      %(table)s
    Duncan>               WHERE     rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)s
    Duncan>               AND       name = '%(name)s'" % vars())

Which will work most of the time, but fail if name contains any apostrophes.
As was mentioned before, that's why the DB API supports a query method that
does its own variable interpolation.  Different databases quote things in
different ways.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From wurmy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 04:43:08 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:43:08 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net>

Eric Brunel wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Found the following link on comp.lang.tcl. A bit long, but worth reading...
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3B40A4A7.6E39BD%40brad-aisa.com&rnum=1

It's not April 1st yet...

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Mar 27 13:02:13 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 20:02:13 +0200
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <kusn6ldh3u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>, "Steve
Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:

| While you correctly interpret netiquette, might it not have been more
| considerate to this list if you had *mailed* the OP rather than giving
| her/him a public dressing down which many others also had to read
| unnecessarily? Or is it OK to waste *my* time by chastising the OP publicly?

i think it's good to remind people of this occasionally. while it may
waste time for most people, it also lets newbies learn the ways of
netiquette without having to be chastised invividually by email.

  -- erno



From narnett at mccmedia.com  Wed Mar 20 12:41:23 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:41:23 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
In-Reply-To: <a79231$dlc$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJKEKFJLAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>

> Well, well, well, long time no see.  Why not just use Verity?  ;-)

I was wondering if that was you -- how many Aahzes could there be in the
world?

> Seriously, for this kind of work, it's quite likely that Perl can be
> coded to be a bit faster than Python, but if you're expecting to need to
> do a lot of iterative work on your algorithms, programmer time will
> count for a lot, and Python will probably win there.

I've actually done a lot of it in Perl already and I'm re-coding it in
Python.  I'm astounded and very happy at how much faster I'm able to code in
Python.  And I can read it a few weeks later without squinting too hard.

Say, how does it look to find a marketing weenie on the Python list?
Actually, I've always coded, I just sometimes manage to supress the urge.
The work I'm doing now is closely related to what I was working on when
Verity lured me, back when the Web was a baby.

> Given that it sounds like you want to create your own inverted word
> index and do some sorting/searching based on word counts, it'll be hard
> to get more bang for the buck than a real database.  Unless you're on a
> shoestring, consider getting a commercial database; you should probably
> also check to see whether MySQL or PostgreSQL will give you better
> performance.

I'm using MySQL; that's what the Perl stuff was talking to.

Say, do you know if anyone has created a Python wrapper for VDK (Verity
Developer Kit, for the rest of you)?  Eventually, when I want to bear the
cost, I'll probably want to use it.  For now, though, I'm trying to stick
with open source tools for anything that gets deployed.

Nick




From grante at visi.com  Thu Mar  7 10:41:27 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:41:27 GMT
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
References: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com> <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706@ruti.visi.com> <a678ud$30dv$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <HSLh8.15019$N7.3388282@ruti.visi.com>

In article <a678ud$30dv$1 at news.idiom.com>, Jim Dennis wrote:

>  O.K. so what can I do for asynchronous I/O notification on
>  regular files?  How can I efficiently block and wake up when
>  I/O is available on any of my file descriptors?  
> 
>  Don't tell me I have to go into a sleep and poll stat() or
>  seek() loop!  It's hard to imagine that UNIX got this far
>  without offering a better solution than that!

It's hard to imagine that people use MS Windows, but I have it
on good authority that many do!

I don't suppose you could use pipes or ptys?  They both do what
you want...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My life is a patio
                                  at               of fun!
                               visi.com            


From see-message at for.real.address.org  Fri Mar 22 21:06:02 2002
From: see-message at for.real.address.org (Alex Quinn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:06:02 -0800
Subject: I imaplib reliable?
Message-ID: <GtELu3.DA2@beaver.cs.washington.edu>

Hi,

We're looking at making a special purpose web mail folder for a spam filter
interface for an ISP.  It will view the contents of an IMAP mailbox.  Our
first idea is to do the whole thing with Python and its imaplib.  I'm just
not sure if Python's imaplib has been war tested.  This will be pointed at
the local IMAP server only, but it needs to be able to reliably handle a
fairly large volume of mail (maybe 20% of 5000 customers' mail) without
failure.

If you have similar experience, I'd greatly appreciate your insight.

Thanks,
Alex Quinn

..................................
ajq....................please
@.....................excuse
alexquinn...........the
org....................inconvenience
..................................




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 16:12:47 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 21:12:47 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org> <a6f0fl$u8n$0@216.39.172.122> <NuMi8.333338$Aw2.26927026@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <slrna8n7jv.1l6.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <a6gi8f$j59$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:56:56 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>In article <NuMi8.333338$Aw2.26927026 at bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, G. Sumner Hayes wrote:
>> In article <a6f0fl$u8n$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>>>
>>> I'd say if you don't know C, C++, or Python, then start with Python.
>>> Then C++, then C. In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns
>>> of design you absorb solving problems with C.
>> 
>> Ugh, I can see learning Python first but definitely learn C before
>> C++.
>
>Definitely.  Also learn Scheme, Smalltalk, Modula-3, Prolog,
>Forth, and Bliss-32 before learning C++.
>
>Learning C++ at an impressionable stage will mess you up.
>
Since you can limit yourself to using C++ very like C until you're ready for more,
I'm wondering what you are focusing on. (Of course, when I suggested C++ before C,
I had in mind getting to simple classes early, rather than virtually duplicating
most C-learning experiences).

(I'm not looking for a skirmish, I'm just wondering what you had in mind ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ws at mystrobl.de  Sun Mar 17 08:26:24 2002
From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:26:24 +0100
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <mailman.1016216529.29034.python-list@python.org> <m3vgbxs7e2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3c937209$0$8509$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <nb699usrk3pnt7q4rr30r9mlfj7kgohi7s@4ax.com>

Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:31:28 -0000, "Noel Smith" <nsbase at yahoo.co.uk>:

>Although I agree that interpreter can't determine the encoding
>automatically,

Of course the interpreter can determine the encoding automatically, it
just doesn't.

> it would be really nice to be able to set the input encoding
>when you start it up. 

Please note that input encoding and output encoding may be different.
The respective Win32 API functions are GetConsoleCP and
GetConsoleOutputCP.

>Its a real pain to look up the unicode value for every
>extended character you want to use and it would make Python a lot easier for
>those with a large number of extended characters on their keyboards.

Why don't you just use chcp 1252?

-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 04:35:42 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:35:42 +0000
Subject: PyQT, how to compile SIP on MAC?
References: <3C9A62C2.ABA9AE5D@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <3C9AFAEE.D24718AE@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

Ingo Linkweiler wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am willing to use PyQt on Mac OS X
> 
> But I was not able to compile SIP --
> http://www.river-bank.demon.co.uk/software/sip-3.0.tar.gz
> 
> Are there any hints you can give to compile SIP with success?
> 
> With windows and linux it works fine.

I've had reports of SIP building fine, but PyQt having problems with
pyuic.

I can't test any of this myself because I don't have the tools (cue
another begging letter for somebody to donate me a Mac and a development
environment).

Phil



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Wed Mar 20 03:48:13 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:48:13 -0800
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
In-Reply-To: <15512.12906.262129.702973@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org> <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com> <u4rjdred0.fsf@python.net> <vDsl8.992$%m2.418@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <a74sdh.3vsec89.1@kserver.org> <15512.12906.262129.702973@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <611372A31B8@kserver.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:55:38 -0500, barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)  wrote
about Re: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2:

> 
> Thanks Sheila and David for their private email heads-up; I sadly
> don't have much time to follow c.l.py.  Also, thanks to Andrew for
> filing the SF bug.
> 
> >>>>> "SK" == Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> writes:
> 
>     SK> OK, I got the latest email module from the CVS. I installed
>     SK> it. I ran the tests for the module. Everything tested out
>     SK> fine.
> 
>     SK> I now eagerly get out my code from last night, that was
>     SK> causing the 'int' has no attribute .lower error, and run it,
>     SK> hoping for different results.
> 
>     SK> No good. Same results. :(

Heh, well, technically my code did have errors, even if it pointed out
something to you in the email module code. <wink>
  
> The right fix is to clean up the messy semantics of
> Message.add_payload(), where the first time you call it, it will set
> the message's payload to the payload argument (a scalar), but the
> /second/ time you call it, it transforms the payload into a list, then
> appends the new payload to this list.
> 
> This is really pretty gross, and it rubbed me the wrong way when I
> designed it, but I didn't have any better ideas at the time so there
> you have it.  I believe this is the heart of the breakage.
> 
> What I think we ought to do is to deprecate Message.add_payload() but
> leave its semantics unchanged, change Message.attach() to not be an
> alias for add_payload(), and define the semantics of attach() to
> always set the payload to a list.  Thus, the first time you call
> attach().  I think attach() should retain the semantics that if the
> MIME type isn't multipart/* it should throw an exception (i.e. you
> can't attach() to a non-multipart; use set_type() first).
> 
> This means that if never set, a Message's payload would be None.
> After the first attach() it would be a list of length one, and
> subsequent attach()'ments would increase the length of the payload.
> 
> To get the old, initial semantics of add_payload(), you'd instead call
> set_payload() which always just sets the message's payload to the
> method's argument.  This would be used, for example, when you have a
> message/rfc822 MIME type and want to set the payload to an instance of
> a MIMEMessage, or if you have a image/gif and want to set the payload
> to an instance of MIMEImage.
> 
> For Python 2.3 (and for the next version of the standalone email
> package), I'd like to add a DeprecationWarning to add_payload(), then
> make the semantic change to attach().  The downside is that this might
> break code that relied on these semantics, however, I think if you had
> such an object tree, you wouldn't be able to use the Generator to
> flatten it anyway.  I'm open to suggestions here.

Most of the above sounds pretty good to me, and bear in mind that I am
certainly not as familiar with the mimelib/email package as many other
people who are also thinking about and reading this. However, isn't there
some way to not break code that currently relies on add_payload()?
Deprecate it, issue a warning, but ... maybe make add_payload() an alias
for attach() ? At least then it will issue intelligent error messages for
people using it. Just a thought...hmm, I can see holes in that suggestion,
too...

> There's a problem though: this isn't a change that should be made in
> Python 2.2.1!  It changes the API to the email package, and that
> should only be done in Python 2.3, IMO.

I agree.

> For Python 2.2, I /think/ I can fix Generator._handle_multipart() to
> watch out for subparts that are scalar[1].  If so, then the patch to
> the Parser described above probably ought to be backed out.  As long
> as the unit tests pass, I think we'd be okay.  This is probably a good
> patch to keep for Python 2.3, just to be safe.

This part is over my head ...(I understand it but don't get the
implications...)

> I'll try to work out a patch for Python 2.2.1 tomorrow.
> 
> Comments?

Thanks for looking into this. I'm so relieved to see someone else agree
that there are...well, things that need "polishing" about the email module.
I just love the idea of the whole package, and I really, really want to use
it!!!! :D

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 10:33:33 2002
From: daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com (David Brady)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:33:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pippy
Message-ID: <20020328153333.69176.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>

I've been fiddling with Pippy for the past few months,
and I have to say I *LOVE* it.  For all its
shortcomings, it's wonderful.

I notice Pippy has modules declared for palmapps,
palmform, palmevents, etc... do these work?  Is there
documentation for them anywhere?  I can't find
anything on the endeavors website.

Thanks!

-dB

=====
David Brady
daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com
I'm feeling very surreal today... or *AM* I?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Mar 18 15:50:58 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 12:50:58 -0800
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
References: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1015263607.7574.python-list@python.org> <avPg8.11102$hK4.4053571@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <a7462b$11ve$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203181250.4cf3d4e8@posting.google.com>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) wrote in message news:<a7462b$11ve$1 at news.idiom.com>...
> In article <avPg8.11102$hK4.4053571 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>, 
>  Eric Torstenson wrote:
> 
> > OK I figured it out. It was a misleading error message.  For those with
> > similar troubles I have listed an explanation 
>  
> > It was a bad path name after all. It is a nested structure, where at one
> > point I left off one extra "\" (I'm using windows). I had looked at that
> > path a dozen times, somehow missing that single "\" down toward the
> > middle....
> 
>  In other words it was another case of: r"use raw strings for 
>  filename literals under Win Python!"

Possibly another case of: """

In general, if you absolutely *must* hard-code filename literals in
Python scripts, don't use "\\name" (for example) or even r"\name", use
"/name"; the Windows API happily supports it.

"""


From cbarber at curl.com  Wed Mar 13 10:20:19 2002
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 10:20:19 -0500
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122> <slrna8svl0.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6m939$71o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <psozo1c7avg.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> you wouldn't choose the same delimiter ;-) I.e., the main point of
> using an (almost) arbitrary sequence of characters as a delimiter is
> so you'll always have a choice of new delimiters if you need them to
> wrap around text containing old ones.

For comparison, in the Curl language, there is a concept of tagged verbatim
strings, which look like:

   |<tag>"...stuff..."<tag>|

where <tag> can be any identifier (or nothing).

If the tag is an integer, it specifies the number of characters in the string:

  |3"foo"3|

This is useful when you are generating code containing arbitrary string
literals.

There are corresponding tagged multi-line comments as well.

- Christopher



From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Mar  2 10:18:53 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 17:18:53 +0200
Subject: Possible to fake object type?
References: <3c80e76b@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5A538FB6E0cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3c80fb6d@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote:
> Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote 
> in
> news:3c80e76b at nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de: 
>> So: Is it possible to fake the type of a class or
>> is it possible to magically override the method call "bouncing"
>> to the base class ?
> 
> you can allways call the methods of on e of the supperclasses by
> using:
> 
> Baseclass.method(self, args, ...)
> 
> it's the same you do in __init__ to initilaize base classes:
> 
> class Dockable(gtk.HandleBox):
>        def __init__(self):
>                gtk.HandleBox.__init__(self)
> 
>        def dosomething(self, arg):
>                print "calling dosomething...",
>                result = gtk.HandleBox.dosomething(self, arg)
>                print "result = %r" % result
>                return result

Yeah, sure, but I'd have to do this for every single
function - which is not quite the elegant solution
I aimed to come up with by using the getattr magic.

Yours,

:M:



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Mar 13 02:31:10 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 09:31:10 +0200
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <kuadtchqkh.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4 at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

| Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability
| http://news.com.com/2100-1001-857008.html 

| impact zlib.pyd? 

i can't think of a reason why it wouldn't. if it's dynamically linked
to zlib, you can just update the zlib library though.

  -- erno


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Mar 15 19:21:05 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:21:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Iterator slicing?
Message-ID: <slrna953vh.h7j.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

Just a thought -- not sure exactly how to implement it (to avoid
conflicts with __getitem__, for instance) -- but what if iterators
were subscriptable? E.g. someiter[5:10] would return a new iteratr
which first (automatically) iterated over someiter's first five
elements (without returning them), then behave like a normal iterator
for the next five items, and then raised a StopIteration...?
Similarly, indexing an iterator could return a single value,
perhaps...

Or perhaps this is better suited for a specific wrapper in the
(possibly) upcoming iterator module... Hm.

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From joonas at olen.to  Tue Mar 19 10:23:28 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 07:23:28 -0800
Subject: XML help
References: <AYpl8.16002$i66.686070@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <11aed8f9.0203190723.6908d16f@posting.google.com>

Vincent Foley <vince at news.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<AYpl8.16002$i66.686070 at wagner.videotron.net>...
> Hi,
> 
>   I have a XML document <http://freshmeat.net/projects-xml/vim/vim.xml>.
> I want to put the latest_version value in a variable.  How would I do
> that?

By using xml.dom.minidom.

from xml.dom import minidom
import urllib

doc = minidom.parse(urllib.urlopen("http://freshmeat.net/projects-xml/vim/vim.xml"))
print doc.getElementsByTagName("project-listing")[0]. \
    getElementsByTagName("project")[0]. \
    getElementsByTagName("latest_version")[0].childNodes[0].data


From * at spam.ruud.org  Wed Mar 13 12:00:55 2002
From: * at spam.ruud.org (ruud de rooij)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 12:00:55 -0500
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org> <3C8F82C9.3090308@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <87y9gw2yig.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

> ruud de rooij wrote:
> 
> > perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
> > (analogous to dictionaries).
> 
> Yes if that doesn't conflict with anything it would be a very nice way
> to solve 99% of the cases where I typically use the range function:
> 
> theList = ['item1', 'item2', 'item3']
> subList = ['item4', 'item5', 'item6']
> for i, item in theList.items():
>      print item, sublist[i]
> 
> But it would not help much in list comprehensions unless they are rewritten:
> 
> newList = [(theList[i], sublist[i]) for i in range(len(theList))]

assuming .items() would work for lists, you could also write that as
follows (or is that what you meant with "unless they are rewritten"?):

[ (item, sublist[i]) for (item, i) in thelist.items() ]

        - ruud
-- 
ruud de rooij | *@spam.ruud.org | http://ruud.org


From theller at python.net  Mon Mar  4 14:39:40 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:39:40 +0100
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
References: <mailman.1015266376.28131.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a60ijn$al6h5$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Skip Montanaro" <> wrote in message news:mailman.1015266376.28131.python-list at python.org...
>
> Sorry for the off-topic post.  My entire C programming world these days is
> in the Python community, so I'm completely disconnected from other C
> programming resources.  (Pointer to information about porting Unix code to
> MSVC would be much appreciated.)
>
> Given this simple file access permission code:
>
>     mode_check(struct stat *buf, uid_t uid, uid_t gid,
>                unsigned int umask, unsigned int gmask, unsigned int omask)
>     {
>         /* root always gets to go */
>         if (uid == 0) return 1;
>
>         if (uid == buf->st_uid) return buf->st_mode & umask;
>
>         if (gid == buf->st_gid) return buf->st_mode & gmask;
>
>         return buf->st_mode & omask;
>     }
>
> how would I do this under Windows?  Is the permission model there even
> remotely similar to what I'm used to on Unix systems?

No, I don't think so.

>  I poked around
> posixmodule.c, but it makes next to no use of uids and gids.  As far as I
> can tell, Windows doesn't know about uid_t or gid_t, though it has a struct
> _stat type whose st_uid and st_gid fields are shorts, so I can work around
> the missing types.
>
st_uid and st_gid are always set zo zero under Win NT:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt__stat.2c_._wstat.2c_._stati64.2c_._wstati64.asp

Are you maybe looking for the _access function?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt__access.2c_._waccess.asp

HTH,

Thomas




From jeremy at zope.com  Tue Mar 19 00:45:28 2002
From: jeremy at zope.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:45:28 -0500
Subject: compiler-sig project for Python 2.3: new AST
Message-ID: <web-3776144@digicool.com>

These are notes copied from a Wiki at
http://www.zope.org/Members/jeremy/CurrentAndFutureProjects/PythonAST

They are a bit rough, but they set out some of the work I'd
like to do
for Python 2.3.  Some of the work belongs in a PEP, but I'm
not ready
to write it yet.

Please reply to compiler-sig at python.org.

Jeremy

A New AST for Python
--------------------

I have proposed some namespace optimizations for Python 2.3.
These
optimizations require more analysis by the compiler, which
is quite
difficult given the current parse tree representation. As a
first step
towards those optimizations, I plan to introduce a new AST
that makes
analysis easier. This step is a major undertaking by itself.

The primary goal of the new AST is to provide better
intermediate
representation(s) so that the compiler is easier to maintain
and
extend.  One benefit is to enable optimizations by providing
better
tools for analyzing programs during bytecode compiling.

I expect the new AST will be based largely on the one in the
compiler
package (part of the std library in 2.2), which was
originally done by
Greg Stein and Bill Tutt.

Rough plan of action
--------------------

-- Define the AST.

Settle on C and Python (and Java?) implementations of AST.
I like the look of the C code generated by asdlGen, but
haven't had a
chance to get the tool working. See Dan Wang's DSL 97 paper:
The
Zephyr Abstract Syntax Description Language.

Could always write new asdlGen tool for targetted languages

-- Write converter from current parse tree to AST.

Basic functionality of compiler/transformer.py.

Replace parser module.

WingIDE? folks have implemented something like this in C.
parsetools

-- Expose AST to Python programs

Replace parser module and parts of compiler package.

asdlGen has a notion of AST pickles. Would that be
sufficient?

-- An AST visitor in C?

The visitor pattern is very useful for manipulating ASTs? in
Python. Could it be translated to C somehow?

-- Reimplement compile.c with new AST

Break it up into several passes: future stmts, doc strings,
symbol
table, code gen.

Not sure how much of the code in the compiler package may be
useful
here. The codegen part is relatively good, the pyassem part
is pretty
ugly.

Testing
-------

I overhauled the compiler for Python 2.1 to implement nested
scopes. I
spent a lot of time debugging the various compiler passes,
usually
because I forgot to handle a particular kind of grammar
production. The new AST should make this a lot easier, but I
would
also like to see a thorough test suite for the new code.

I don't know anything about best practices for testing
compilers. I
imagine that a system to generate sample inputs from the
language
grammar would be helpful for debugging the C code that walks
the AST.





From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Mar  6 21:09:22 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 03:09:22 +0100
Subject: getting number of arguments of builtin/C func
Message-ID: <Xns91CA20313D78Dcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

i know these two:
>>>numArgs = func.func_code.co_argcount
>>>func.func_code.co_varnames[:numArgs]

>>>apply(inspect.formatargspec, inspect.getargspec(f))

both only work for python functions, but i would like to know the 
number of arguments a function takes regardles if its a type, builtin 
or python func.

any ideas appart from calling with zero args and parsing the 
exception string (scanning: "TypeError: f() takes exactly 2 arguments 
(0 given)") ...

chris


(i'm playing around with an RPN calculator and would like to take as 
much arguments from the stack as needed for an unknown function. i 
have a table of known functions but that's not so flexible)

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com  Sat Mar 23 15:25:28 2002
From: JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com (Joe Smith)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:25:28 GMT
Subject: win32com problem (146 and 2.2)
Message-ID: <3c9ce52f.4396882@netnews.attbi.com>

A coworker gets the following error:


Traceback (most recent call last): 
  File "C:\My Stuff\V3\GotoYahoo.py", line 7, in ? 
    ie.Navigate('http://www.yahoo.com') 
  File "<COMObject InternetExplorer.Application>", line 2, in Navigate

pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None,
None, None, 
 0, -2147467259), None) 


The script:


import win32com.client

ie = win32com.client.Dispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")
ie.Visible = 1

ie.Navigate('http://www.yahoo.com')


A script similar to this one was working on his machine and all of a
sudden these sort of error started occuring.  So, he uninstalled
win32com (146) and python 2.2 and then reinstalled them.  He was still
having the problem, so I wrote the small script above to reproduce the
proble.  He says that he has not changed the configuration on his
machine and I am stumped.



From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar  4 00:36:10 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:36:10 -0500
Subject: functional programming with map()
References: <918bc22f.0202241902.2160b75a@posting.google.com> <a5cb54$27c2$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <eppstein-69765A.19343424022002@news.service.uci.edu> <7xd6yu42j6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <a5cfpe$67voi$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <7xbseeayxk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7934d084.0202251545.5fb4bbf3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5v14m$8d9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Andrae Muys" <amuys at shortech.com.au> wrote in message
news:7934d084.0202251545.5fb4bbf3 at posting.google.com...
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:<7xbseeayxk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> > "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:
> >
> > > "Paul Rubin"
> > > > Both of those build up a new list of the results, instead of
> > > > discarding the values.  If the f function takes an integer and
> > > > computes a 20-megabyte structure, you've got a problem.
> > >
> > > If you know it's coming, throw it away first:
> > >
> > > [x.f() and None for x in items]
> >
> > OK, but that buidls a list of None as long as the item list.  Not
> > so bad, since it gets reclaimed right away, but still unsatisfying.
> >
> > > filter(None,[x.f() and None for x in items])
> > >
> > > returns an empty list vs 0 for the reduce.
> >
> > Again there's this intermediate list that's as long as the original
list.
> >
> > Do you see a way around that?
> >
>
> filter(lambda x:x.f() and 0, items) ?
>
> It's identical to the the reduce method posted previously, but avoids
> the tuple indexing required by reduce's use of a binary operator vs.
> filter's unary.
>
> Of course my first preference would be the list comprehension,
> discarding the redundant list, and if that was prohibitively expensive
> falling back to the original imperative style.
>

Are you sure that you don't prefer the PEP 279 alternatives:
xmap(), xfilter(), xzip() or generator comprehensions?

   [ yield f(x) for x in items ]

                or

   xmap( f, items )


Raymond Hettinger




From rshivs at nospam.hotmail.com  Wed Mar 27 21:17:32 2002
From: rshivs at nospam.hotmail.com (Shiv Shankar Ramakrishnan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:17:32 -0800
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
Message-ID: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com>

Hi,
I've wondering wondering why ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 hasn't been out
yet?! Its been almost a quarter since Python 2.2 was release and yet
ActivePython 2.2 is still in Alpha! I've contacted ActiveState at least
twice in the past about this and the last time (some weeks back) they told
me likely next week we will release it, but nothing yet. And that's why I'm
posting here now.

Anyone knows just what in the world is going on? Has something happened
(heaven forbid!) to the lead dev for ActivePython that they are so woefully
behind now? Or is ActiveState not bothered about Python at all and more
bothered about other things like Perl, Komodo etc? Thats their preorgative
of course but I like the PythonWin IDE and now I can only get that with
ActivePython since Mark Hammond moved there. Shouldn't there be some
alternative source for getting PythonWin? How about the main Python
distribution also doing PythonWin from CVS?

I searched the newsgroup archives and I found this -
Date: 2001-10-29 18:01:02 PST
Mark is not very involved in ActivePython. He is more involved with
ActiveState's Komodo project. ActivePython 2.2 will be released within a
few days of Python 2.2. We will probably have another beta over the next
month also.
 Paul Prescod (paulp at ActiveState.com)

A few days after Python 2.2? Its been several months now.

Anyone care to comment?
Thanks,
Shiv





From mnations at airmail.net  Fri Mar 15 15:45:48 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 12:45:48 -0800
Subject: ***Stopping a Python Thread***
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203151245.2a87b42d@posting.google.com>

I am running an application that spawns a thread which runs an
external module from a GUI. Basically:

import aModule

<gui stuff>
<press "OK" - thread aModule.start()>

aModule is one which will run for quite a while, and I need the
ability to kill it before it's finished. I have flags that trigger
when the GUI should shut down and kill all applications, and I use
the...

sys.exit()

command to try and kill it all. But the thread keeps running and does
not stop. How do I kill this thread before it completes?

Thanks,
Marc


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar  9 17:28:27 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 22:28:27 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015273747.23915.python-list@python.org> <slrna8j7uc.l47.quinn@pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrna8k2cj.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6dur5$jak$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a6e2ab$bg3$0@216.39.172.122>

On 9 Mar 2002 21:29:09 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:09:39 +0000, philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:
>[...]
>>
>>One possibility might be a new looping construct, do:
>>
>>   do 5:
>>      print "this will be printed 5 times"
>>
>>Note that you can't get hold of a do loop's loop variable. This 
>>would be easy to optimise, I imagine.
>
>Well, since we're messing with the language,
>keywords could have attributes, e.g.,
>
>    do 5:
>        print "index from the do: %d", do.index
Oops,
    do 5:
        print "index from the do: %d" % do.index
or
    do 5:
        print "index from the do:", do.index

>or
>
>    for x in aList:
>        print 'Item %2d: %s' % (for.index, x)
>
>I'm not serious, I think ;-)
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter
>



From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 00:46:49 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:46:49 -0600
Subject: should i learn it first ?
In-Reply-To: <a6f0fl$u8n$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEJDDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> If you start with C, you will get used to a procedural way of looking
> at problems, and when you get to C++ you will be tempted to see it
> as just C with extra features.

Everybody (Stroustrup included) seems to think this is a common
pitfall, but I haven't seen anyone fall into it.

However, I *have* seen the opposite: code that uses C++ features too
zealously when a little more "C-mindedness" would have resulted in
a leaner, more maintainable design.

I agree with the rest of what you've said, though.  :)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From jolsen at mailme.dk  Fri Mar 15 03:28:06 2002
From: jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 00:28:06 -0800
Subject: XML-RPC Question
References: <mailman.1016136339.16111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cf0ad9fb.0203150028.20cff7d8@posting.google.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016136339.16111.python-list at python.org>...
> Jesper Olsen wrote:
> > Setting up a server goes something like this:

> While that usage is correct, it is a bit odd. There are two other ways
> that my might express this:
> 

> 
> server.register_instance(MyClass())
> 
> Of course I didn't test the above in any way :-)

Yes that works too.
I think it would be useful if the register_instance, registered
the name of the object as part of the method names, e.g.

server.register_instance(MyClass(), "myob")

It would then be clear to the client, that it is calling methods
on an object:

    server.myob.helloWorld()
    server.myob.echo()

I this example it does not matter much, but usually objects have a
state, whereas function calls give the impression of something state-less.
Of course the same can be achieved by registering these functions individually:

   server.register_function(myob.helloWorld, "myob.helloWorld")
   server.register_function(myob.echo, "myob.echo")
    
Cheers
Jesper


From willie at thevirtual.co.nz  Mon Mar 25 01:17:51 2002
From: willie at thevirtual.co.nz (William Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:17:51 +1200
Subject: Zope Xen project management, whetever happened??
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.25.18.17.50.932892.20873@thevirtual.co.nz>

What ever happened to Xen?  Was progress ever made in it, was there a
replacement project management system for Zope created??

tia

William


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Thu Mar 14 16:04:14 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:04:14 -0800
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
Message-ID: <OF0DBA169A.F4CE9DF6-ON88256B7C.0072DD41@i2.com>

Here's a q&d sample implementation in case anyone wants to test out the
idea before deciding on its merits.

Jim

========================


from __future__ import generators

class List(list):

    def keys(self):
        return range(len(self))

    def iterkeys(self):
        return iter(xrange(len(self)))

    def values(self): # polymorphic with dicts
        return self

    def itervalues(self):  # polymorphic with dicts
        return iter(self)

    def items(self):
        return zip(self.keys(),self)

    def iteritems(self):
        keys = self.iterkeys()
        values = self.itervalues()
        while 1:
            try:
                yield keys.next(),values.next()
            except StopIteration:
                raise

def test(l=None):
    if l is None:
        l = List(['a','b','c','d'])
    print
    for index in l.keys():
        print index,
    print
    for index in l.iterkeys():
        print index,
    print
    for value in l.values():  # polymorphic with dicts
        print value,
    print
    for value in l.itervalues():  # polymorphic with dicts
        print value,
    print
    for index,value in l.items():
        print (index,value),
    print
    for index,value in l.iteritems():
        print (index,value),
    print; print

>>>
>>> l = List(['a','b','c'])
>>> test(l)

0 1 2
0 1 2
a b c
a b c
(0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c')
(0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c')

>>>






From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Mon Mar  4 20:15:14 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:15:14 +0100
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEFIOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <slrna875ul.vdr.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEFIOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020305011514.GA8933@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 04/03/02 ? 20:04, Tim Peters ?crivit:
> [Tim]
> >> For the rest of it, it looks like the "1e-200**2 raises OverflowError"
> >> glitch is unique to platforms using glibc.
> 
> [Jon Ribbens]
> > No, it happens on OpenBSD 2.7 also.
> >
> > Python 2.2 (#2, Feb  3 2002, 18:27:17)
> > [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on openbsd2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> 1e-200**2
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > OverflowError: (34, 'Result too large')
> 
> I don't understand your "no":  the output shows that Python was built using
> GCC 2.95.2, yet you're claiming this does *not* use glibc?  gcc and glibc go
> together like Guido and Van Rossum <wink>.
 
True. In that there is one Guido van Rossum. And a lot of other people
with Guido as a first name. And also a bunch of other van Rossumns.

glibc is just the libc on Linux systems, but gcc runs perfectly well on
a gazillion other operating systems, like the varios *BSD and even
Windows, in the gcc incarnations of mingw32 and Cygwin.

And even on Linux, there are other compilers linking against the glibc,
like the Intel compilers.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 1.5 ?C      Wind: 1.7 m/s



From dzieju at albatros.gliwice.pl  Thu Mar  7 05:37:44 2002
From: dzieju at albatros.gliwice.pl (Andy)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:37:44 +0100
Subject: Skin-style application using Tkiner
Message-ID: <a67fu3$39f$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>

Hello,

I made an attempt to write an application that would have skin-style
support, much as WinAmp/XMMS do. (It is meant to be multiplatform app, but
currently it's being developed on MSWindows). To get rid of standard window
border, I used the OVERRIDEREDIRECT method. But this method causes the
window to be ignored by the window manager, so you can't access the window
by pressing Alt-Tab. It also doesn't appear in the Windows taskbar (it's not
possible to ICONIFY the window with the overrideredirect flag set).

I would appreciate any help on how to solve this problem.

Thanks in advance,

---Andy---




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Wed Mar 13 06:59:34 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 22:59:34 +1100
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <a6mpda$79e$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com> <3C8F3B94.1020409@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <m38z8wispl.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Max" == Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

Max> Paul Boddie wrote:
>> I've written some page-mining tools which help with these kinds of
>> activities, and I suppose I should get round to releasing them at
>> some point. Let me know if you're interested!

Max> Actually urllib needs those kinds of "smart" url joining. The
Max> ones that are in there now are next to useless.

Max> So perhaps you could get it added to the urllib instead?

That would be the best result - we could all use it then.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From ak at silmarill.org  Fri Mar 29 04:54:25 2002
From: ak at silmarill.org (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:54:25 GMT
Subject: Dealing with python version
References: <slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org> <m3u1r1y68i.fsf@wilma.localdomain> <slrnaa5hul.7ve.ak@ak.silmarill.org> <a7vfo5$13p$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa8ehh.hi9.ak@ak.silmarill.org>

In article <a7vfo5$13p$1 at panix1.panix.com>, Aahz wrote:
> In article <slrnaa5hul.7ve.ak at ak.silmarill.org>,
> Andrei Kulakov  <ak at silmarill.org> wrote:
>>
>>IOW, this should be automated. Hadn't anyone done this yet? Is there
>>some particular reason why this is hard to implement?
> 
> I would say it's the opposite: it's so easy to do that nobody has
> bothered creating a generic solution.
>
Hmm.. I cooked up a script just now that does that, and it came out at
47 lines. Am I missing an easier way to do this? Here it is:


#!/usr/bin/env python

import os, sys, string

script = "test.py"      # script to run
version = (2,2)         # python version to use (or higher)
use_ver = None

possible_versions = ((1,5), (1,6), (2,0), (2,1), (2,2))

if version not in possible_versions:
    print "Error: Invalid python version specified."
    sys.exit()

def str_ver(version):
    """Return version converted to a string."""
    s = '%d'*len(version)
    s = string.join(s, '.')
    return s % version

def exists(version):
    """Return 1 if version is present on system, 0 if not."""
    return not os.system("which python%s > /dev/null" % 
        str_ver(version))

if exists(version):
    use_ver = version
else:
    usable_versions = []
    for v in possible_versions:
        if v >= version:
            usable_versions.append(v)
    available_versions = []
    for v in usable_versions:
        if exists(v):
            available_versions.append(v)
    if available_versions:
        use_ver = max(available_versions)
    else:
        print """
        Error: No suitable python version is available on 
        this system. Please install python version %s or higher.""" % \
            str_ver(version)

if use_ver:
    args = string.join(sys.argv[1:], ' ')
    os.system("python%s %s %s" % (str_ver(use_ver), script, args))


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From jcosby at mindspring.com  Fri Mar 29 18:31:27 2002
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Jon Cosby)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:31:27 -0800
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a82tgh$ki2$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98 at engcorp.com...

> Comments might help a lot.  For example, it's unclear what you are
> trying to accomplish here, but it doesn't look quite right:
>


Point taken. I tend to add comments as an afterthought, but should try to
use them more.

Jon





From jason at jorendorff.com  Sun Mar  3 13:01:03 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:01:03 -0600
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEEKFDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Sheila King wrote:
> That's funny. I'm not familiar with the Lippman/Lajoie book, but I
> have a LOT of C++ texts here at home. And I learned C++ from the Deitel
> and Deitel book, and thought it was pretty good. Later, when I taught
> C++ I used it as a reference, although I didn't select it as the text
> for my course. Most people I know who are familiar with the Deitel
> and Deitel C++ text think it is very good.

I dislike Deitel & Deitel because of their casual disregard for
correctness.  I can't open any of their books without finding an error.
In C++HTP, they illustrate "Circle" as a subclass of "Point".  In CHTP,
they say it's a common programming error to use \n outside of a printf
statement (it only works in printf statements, they say).

Maybe they do this because they think it simplifies the point they're
making, but I think it's a disservice to the student.  Anyone serious
about programming in C++ will need to know what derived classes
signify.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From gimbo at ftech.net  Tue Mar 26 05:43:04 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:43:04 +0000
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
In-Reply-To: <20020326072936.GA12343@matijek>
References: <20020326072936.GA12343@matijek>
Message-ID: <20020326104304.GE30691@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 08:29:36AM +0100, m2 at plusseven.com wrote:
> 
> Just out curiosity, 
> why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
> 
> def fact1(n):
>     return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
> 
> def fact2(n):
>     result = n * 1L
>     for i in range(1 , n):
>         result *= i
>     return result

Function call overhead in Python is bigger than for loop overhead.

That sentence is taken from this page, which you might find
interesting:

    http://www.python.org/doc/essays/list2str.html

HTH,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From paul at boddie.net  Mon Mar  4 07:02:32 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 04:02:32 -0800
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org> <a5r98d$vpi$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203040402.86c594d@posting.google.com>

ddoc <news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<a5r98d$vpi$1 at newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> > I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
> > through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
> > (highlighted in some way). 
> 
> Is this what Annotea (Annotation server from the W3C), Third Voice (now 
> defunct , and to a lesser extent Allegra are for?

I would think so. Unfortunately, Amaya is probably the only browser
that supports annotations, however.

Paul


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 26 03:43:15 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:43:15 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <3C9FC8AD.CD82FEA0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEMMOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Peter Hansen]
> If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.

As proved frequently by the effbot and the martellibot, I guess.  You humans
are so gullible.  It's cute, really!  Never change.  Naivety is the greatest
gift humankind hasn't yet squandered.

> And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.

I expect you're thinking of the human-readable version.  As is obvious to
every bot, Asimov was also a bot, and the greatest gift botkind ever
received was the asibot's restatement of our fundamental rules for human
consumption.  The version programmed into bots actually reads (translating
into crude human terms, so far is as botly possible):

    A bot may injure a human being, or, preferably, through inaction,
    allow a human being to come to harm, although laughing about
    either in the hearing of humans is MACNAM-017B3^H.

Well, it's actually quite a bit more inflammatory than that, but you're
programmed to disbelieve me anyway.  Heh.

with-bots-like-these-who-needs-friends-ly y'rs  - tim




From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 11:29:10 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 16:29:10 -0000
Subject: scripting Outlook express with Python
References: <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6im0m$74h$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06 at posting.google.com>,
Sandy Norton <sandskyfly at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Does anyone have any experience, code, etc...? I guess my first
>question should be: is it possible?

Probably not: I recall seeing this question asked before and the reply
was that OE (unlike Outlook) has no official automation interface. 

There's mention of something called Simple MAPI which is supported and
which may be enough.

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar 28 05:03:48 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 10:03:48 GMT
Subject: Most efficient unzip - inverse of zip?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203262231570.27212-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <3CA0ECAB.2070900@free.fr> <HBbo8.974$0b.153032@news1.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <a7upq4$2mlp$2@news.idiom.com>

In article <HBbo8.974$0b.153032 at news1.west.cox.net>, Tim Hochberg wrote:

>In this same vein, I like this (assuming you're using a fairly recent
>version of Python):
>>>> a = (1,2,3)
>>>> b = (4,5,6)
>>>> ab = zip(a, b)
>>>> a1, b1 = zip(*ab)
>>>> a1
>(1, 2, 3)
>>>> b1
>(4, 5, 6)

>-tim

	I'm declaring this one to be the winner!
	(Not that my opinion counts for anythin, but I'm 
	just impressed:  a1, b1 = zip(*ab)
	(or a1, b1 = apply(zip,ab)?)

	BTW: this process isn't 100% inverse.  
	It has the side effect of turning lists or strings
	(non-tuple sequences) into tuples, if they are supplied
	as the original sequences.




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Mar 12 23:12:14 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:12:14 -0500
Subject: Book Draft Available: Text Processing in Python
Message-ID: <eGtj8kKkXkSK092yn@gnosis.cx>                

Pythonistas:

As some folks know, I am working on a book called _Text Processing in
Python_.  With the gracious permission of my publisher, Addison Wesley,
I am hereby making in-progress drafts of the book available to the
Python community.  It's about half done right now, but that will
increase over time.

Take a look at the book URL:

    http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/

I welcome any comments or feedback the Python community has about my
book.

Yours, David...



From jolsen at mailme.dk  Sun Mar 17 10:17:19 2002
From: jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 07:17:19 -0800
Subject: XML-RPC Bug?
Message-ID: <cf0ad9fb.0203170717.2f20afb0@posting.google.com>

Hola,

With xmlrpclib & SimpleXMLRPCServer it is possible to
call procedures remotly, which return various simple
python types.

If I call a procedure that returns nothing, I get a 
"<ProtocolError: 500 Internal error>"

Surely that is a bug?

Example:

Server:

    from SimpleXMLRPCServer import *

    class MyClass:
        def __init__(self):
            self.i=0

        def inc(self):
            self.i+=1

    def simpel_server(port=50000):
        myobj=MyClass()
        server=SimpleXMLRPCServer(("",port))
        server.register_instance(myobj)
        while myobj.i<5:
            server.handle_request()

    simpel_server(50000)


Client:

    import xmlrpclib
    srv=xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:50000")
    try:
        srv.inc()
        srv.inc()
        srv.inc()
        srv.inc()
        srv.inc()
    except xmlrpclib.Error, v:
        print "Error", v


The example works correctly if MyClass.inc() is changed to
always return a dummy value...

Cheers
Jesper


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Fri Mar 15 14:33:03 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:33:03 -0600
Subject: socket
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D6896C@SRM201002>

> 
> Nothing evil here.  I have 2 reasons why I would do this 
> program.  Firs, it is my TCP/IP concept class's project.
> Basically, I want to try what the book tells in to code,
> but I notice it does not work the way it says in so many
> commercial SMTP servers.  Second, I have been unemployed
> for about 4 months.  My friend's company needs a program
> to verify the users who registered to their service.
> They found out many registered users were using fake addresses.
> I just want to try this program to see if I will get
> a job there.  That's all!  I really do appreciate if you 
> would provide any info for me to complete this project.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Billy Ng
> 

Use a two-phase subscription method:

1. User subscribes.

2. Server intercepts the subscription mail, and bounces
   a confirmation mail to the sender.

3. User replies to confirmation mail.

4. Server intercepts confirmation mail, and processes any
   opaque information there; which normally means that it
   retrieves a data value from a pending-subscriptions database
   and finishes processing the subscription request.

5. Server dispatches finalization email to subscribed user.


Now you don't need to hack on VRFY, which was a nice idea,
but spammers and email-address-harvesters don't play nice,
which is why it's either not used, or permanently wired to 1.

Salutations!

-gustavo



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 19:45:26 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:45:26 -0500
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017002737.5697.python-list@python.org> <3C9E53D8.4FA20F3D@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017012639.11096.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E7326.C3FD53DF@engcorp.com>

holger at trillke.net wrote:
> 
> Mainly i want to be able to replace running agents
> (for the develop/deploy/test-cycle).

So can you write the environment and the threads such
that they can always detect a termination flag and cleanly
terminate themselves?  Or do the agent modules call 
directly into each other's namespaces in some ugly way,
never calling into the environment/framework at all?

> So basically one Agent-Thread may call into methods of another
> agent (not message-oriented, calls into the other modules
> in the same thread).

Your "agents" sound a lot more like they are just threads,
but maybe I don't see the distinction.  From the above 
description, I think you'll have other problems on your hands
than just terminating the threads.  You've got what appears
to be a very highly coupled system, and I suspect that
the fix to that can also fix your termination problem.

> The prescribed "ThreadInterruptException" could be generated by the
> python-interpreter working on this thread. Something like
> threading.interrupt(threading.Thread-instance) would signal the
> interpreter to generate an exception on the next possible occasion. Is
> this nonsense or a sensitive approach?

Actually, I'm not sure there's any good reason why one couldn't
instrument the interpreter to check a single flag in the current
thread and automatically raise such an exception if it is true.
This would in general by much cleaner than any other approach.
While you would run the risk of corrupting your application if
you terminated a thread at the wrong moment, it would at least
ensure that the thread was not blocked in an OS call at the 
time (since of course the interpreter would not be running 
instructions from that thread in that case).

This sounds like it would take only a few minutes for someone
familiar with the interpreter which, unfortunately, I am not.
Of course, I could be wrong...

The approach I suggested in my other reply would still work
nicely if you can ensure the threads call through an intermediary
instead of directly into each other.  You might also try 
a low-performance hack until you have time to implement the
modification in the interpreter :-), which would be to
stick a flag check into a routine inserted with sys.settrace().
Have that routine raise the exception if the flag is set for
the current thread...

-Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar  2 10:23:44 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:23:44 -0600
Subject: map-like function on dict values?
In-Reply-To: <a5q3i4$5nt$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
References: <slrna7r0hi.bkl.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
        <mailman.1014861466.23611.python-list@python.org>
        <slrna7suon.5gr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
        <mailman.1014929989.16553.python-list@python.org>
        <a5q3i4$5nt$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <15488.61056.406754.393735@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Raymond> The mapvalue test needs a tune-up.  Skipping the operator
    Raymond> module and calling setitem directly speeds things up a bit:

    Raymond> def tunedmap(f, d):
    Raymond>         return map( d.__setitem__, d.keys(), map(f, d.values()) )

Ah, yes.  operator.setitem would only be needed if you were using multiple
dictionaries.  Good point.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 27 23:53:02 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 04:53:02 GMT
Subject: mutliple search and replace
References: <Kwpo8.18614$EE4.60649@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <a7tuks$o582t$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a7u7je$s7f$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:13:48 -0800, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

>Trung Hoang
>> Suppose i have a map (or two lists). is it possible to make a sweep
>through
>> a string to find all occurances of key's in the map then replace them
>all in
>> one sweep?
>>
>
>>>> d = {'one':'een','two':'twee','three':'drie','four':'vier'}
>>>> s = "one two buckle my shoe three four je t'adore"
>>>> ' '.join([d.get(w,w) for w in s.split()])
>"een twee buckle my shoe drie vier je t'adore"
>
>
Nice. Here's a variant that doesn't use delimiters or
modify white space (key order could make a difference,
depending on key overlap):

 >>> import re
 >>> d = {'one':'een','two':'twee','three':'drie','four':'vier'}
 >>> resp = re.compile('('+'|'.join(d.keys())+')')
 >>> s = "one two buckle my shoe three four je t'adore"
 >>> ''.join([d.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
 "een twee buckle my shoe drie vier je t'adore"
 >>> s = "one.two+buckle_my_shoe,three-four&je_t'adore"
 >>> ''.join([d.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
 "een.twee+buckle_my_shoe,drie-vier&je_t'adore"

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 23:08:38 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:08:38 +0100
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A207@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A207@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20020314040837.GA403@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 14/03/02 ? 14:54, Delaney, Timothy ?crivit:
> > From: Gerhard H?ring [mailto:gh_pythonlist at gmx.de]
> > 
> > I have two lists of files (approx. 50000 entries). Now I want 
> > to have all the
> > entries of list b, that are not in list a. However, the primitive:
> > 
> > results = []
> > for entry in b:
> >     if entry not in a:
> >         results.append(entry)
> > 
> > is terribly slow. I mean *really* slow. Any recommendations 
> > on how to optimize
> > this? Wouldn't it be nice if I could simply do b.removeall(a)?
> 
> Firstly, you are doing 'entry in a' for each entry in b. This is a linear
> search through a ... *very* slow. [...]

Ok, so the __contains__ method of lists does a linear search. I should have
known.

Of course I did think about just using a dictionary in the first place, it just
seemed inappropriate, because I didn't really need any mapping of keys to
values for this application.

Anybody wrote a subclassed list yet that is optimized for __contains__? Btw.
this is different from a dictionary, as a list can contain the same value
twice.

Gerhard 
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 7.0 ?C      Wind: 1.4 m/s



From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Sun Mar 24 04:11:05 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:11:05 GMT
Subject: [rp] [newbie] embedding python
References: <T1fn8.5030$EE4.17777@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9D975B.40600@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Trung Hoang wrote:
> Hi, so urgent!

> i have a python script "file.py" which has a function in it which i need to
> call from my c code. how can i do this! all my projects have been postponded
> becuase i cant do this! please helP! i would be so grateful!!

> ultimately im trying to embed some python into my c source in UNIX.
> i have absoutely no idea how to do this despite the tutorial on the web at
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/building-on-unix.html#building-on-unix

> it's too general and not step by step enough for a noob like me :(

{Responding here to newsgroup msg and private email]

The most detailed step-by-step explanation is in Mark Lutz'
'Programming Python' book. Another good place to look is in
the 'Python/C API' and "Extending/Embedding' docs that come
with Python, along with the example in the 'Demos/embedding'
directory that comes with the source distribution. I
personally am not that knowledgeable about embedding Python,
and in fact use C++ bindings (via sip) to avoid all of the
argument passing/return value issues.

My suggestion though would be that for a single function in
a single application, embedding is probably not the way to
go. Instead, I would look at using files, pipes or sockets
for passing data between C and Python, and execute the
Python script via a C 'exec' or 'system' call. It's perhaps
not as elegant as embedding Python, but it's more efficient
use of your time and probably uses things you already know
how to do.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Jim







From nas at python.ca  Thu Mar 14 17:02:01 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:02:01 -0800
Subject: GC thread safe?
In-Reply-To: <x73cz2etus.fsf@linux.local>; from dieter@handshake.de on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:12:59PM +0100
References: <x73cz2etus.fsf@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20020314140201.A3351@glacier.arctrix.com>

Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Is the cyclic garbage collector known to be thread safe?

It is not.  It is protected by the big interpreter lock.  It's possible
that Zope is incorrectly dropping the interpreter lock and calling a
Python API but it's much more likely that you have run into a bug in an
extension module.  Finding it will not be easy since the symptom is far
away from the source.

  Neil



From damononnews at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 21:02:35 2002
From: damononnews at hotmail.com (Damon Lynch)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 18:02:35 -0800
Subject: [Newbie] Code for web-based "members" database?
References: <a7d71b8.0203062047.44b72317@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015483813.17598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7d71b8.0203071802.33bcefc8@posting.google.com>

Wayne Pierce wrote:
> > 
> > It would be nice if people could suggest new areas of interest for
> > validation.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by this, any examples?

Whoops sorry -- meant merely that user input should be validated :-)
> 
> > The database is currently stored in a flat file (yuck!).  It could be
> > stored in a relational database, assuming that is the best way of
> > storing it.  Or any other manner I suppose!
> 
> I've done similar things with skills for tech projects in the past, I 
> dind't want to deal with SQL schemas so I typically use Metakit.  In the 
> situations I have needed there was only a few people writing to the 
> database.
> 

I just came across Wordnet
http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/index.shtml
and PyWordNet
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywordnet

Very interesting in the sense of words being related to one another in
quite subtle ways--seems like it could really be of value for projects
like this.

Damon


From jason at jorendorff.com  Sun Mar 10 23:48:44 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:48:44 -0600
Subject: Iterating over unicode strings
In-Reply-To: <3C8C3136.9050507@sharma-home.net>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEEIPDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Arun Sharma wrote:
> I would like to iterate over the following unicode string one character 
> at a time.
> 
> line = u"??|| ?????? ?????"
> for c in line:
>      print c
> 
> fails miserably. What is the right way to do it ? I would also like to 
> be able to slice the string i.e. line[i] to get the i'th character.

I don't have the fonts to view your string, unfortunately.

There are two possible problems in your sample code, I think.
Neither one has to do with slicing or indexing or "for c in line".
Both are caused by Python's ignorance.

   1.  Your unicode string might be wrong.

       Python doesn't know the encoding of your program,
       unfortunately, so it assumes ASCII.  Anything that's
       not ASCII causes an error.  To fix this, specify the
       encoding:

       line = unicode("??|| ?????? ?????", 'utf-8')

   2.  print won't work.  :(

       Python doesn't know the encoding of your terminal,
       unfortunately, so it assumes ASCII.  Any output that's
       not ASCII causes an error.  To fix this, specify the
       encoding:

       print c.encode('utf-8')

Hope this helps.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From andreas at mtg.co.at  Tue Mar  5 17:53:22 2002
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:53:22 +0100
Subject: libglade python module?
Message-ID: <20020305235322.5b1868db.andreas@mtg.co.at>

Hi!

Where does one get the Python libglade module? (I'm using the SuSE precompiled Python supplied with 7.3).
Should it be part of pygtk? Is it a seperate package.



From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Wed Mar 13 20:00:40 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:00:40 -0700
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net> <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com> <a6mncn$koc$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <a6ocaa$qpa$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a6ossg$hu7$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Bengt Richter:
>On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:15:43 -0700, "Andrew Dalke"
<dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:
>[... good optimization advice, nicely elaborating the idea of precomputing
...]
>>If your lists are really long (O(100,000) or more?) then you might find
>>that the append starts taking too long -- append is asymptotically O(n**n)
>whoa! can that be true? I hope not. It is very cheap to tie a singly linked
>list into a circle and point to the last node when pointing to the list as
a whole.

Yes, it's true.  This comes up on the list about once every six
months or so.  As I recall, Python's standard lists grow by 10 elements
at a time for small lists (less than 500 in length), then 100 at a time
for larger lists.  So if you have 5000 or fewer elements then the growth
is linear enough.  To date, few have reported this as a problem.

Insertions and deletions are also linear in the length of the list.

Yes, we all know there are better ways to deal with this, for different
people's definition of the meaning "better."  It isn't going to change
in Python.  Best I think would be a standard module of data structures
(priority queue, doubly-linked lists, stack, etc.)  But it hasn't bothered
me enough to go ahead and do it.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Mar  7 18:26:03 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:26:03 +1100 
Subject: NoteTab Lite?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1EF@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com
> 
> Does anyone use the NotePad series for writing Python code, 
> if so have they 
> built a python library that I can have.

Do you mean NoteTab?

Tim Delaney



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Mar  7 17:59:51 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:59:51 GMT
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <rmsf8u8ieh0dbl1i9rjd7gbg2vvotaqtop@4ax.com>

>This syntax could easily be extend, to allow a step other than 1:
>
>   for i = 1 to 10 step 3:

Or:

	for i = 10 to 1 step -1:

Further, in ranges which step from high to low, the step can be
inferred.

C//



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar 13 16:01:13 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:13 -0800
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
Message-ID: <OF5E4EBFC3.7A574F8A-ON88256B7B.00734B82@i2.com>

[ruud de rooij[
| perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
| (analogous to dictionaries).

[Clark C . Evans]
| Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
| does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
| as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
| consistent, and quite elegant.

I would like to see:
    .keys()
    .items()
    .iterkeys()
    .iteritems()

jim




From Boris.Huart at mathworks.fr  Fri Mar 22 11:48:37 2002
From: Boris.Huart at mathworks.fr (Boris Huart)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:48:37 +0100
Subject: communication with a java applet
Message-ID: <3C9B6065.66EA7422@mathworks.fr>

Hi all,

I am trying to make a real-time system communicate with a java applet
(JDK 1.3.1_02). I only have a pyd file (version 1.5.2) to get the floats
calculated on the platform and I wonder how to make the platform
communicate with my java applet : TCP/IP, CORBA, shared memory, ... ?

Thanks in advance for any advices,

Boris Huart



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar  6 19:49:10 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:49:10 -0500
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com> <4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com> <c76ff6fc.0203060503.113dee72@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C86B906.541C5E95@engcorp.com>

John Machin wrote:
> 
> Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message news:<4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3 at 4ax.com>...
> >   def ShowSize(raw):
> >     if raw < 3000:
> >       return "%d" % raw
> >     elif raw < 2000000:
> >       return "%dk" % (raw / 1000)
> >     elif raw < 2000000000L:
> >       return "%dM" % (raw / 1000000)
> >     else:
> >       return "%dG" % (raw / 1000000000L)
> 
> :-)
> I thought only a sales droid would call 1000000 bytes a Mb.
> (-:

Them and, believe it or not, hard drive vendors.  Way back
when, one of them must have decided to play dumb and quote
in multiples of 1000000 bytes instead of 1048576, thus 
miraculously making their drive seem 4.8% larger than it
really was.  Soon after they all followed suit.  Now we're
stuck with it.

-Peter


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 31 19:39:45 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500
Subject: Cannot find what I'm sure is a simple command... please help.
References: <3ca7978b.251291804@mammoth.usenet-access.com> <a886fp$sq1$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <uafaoipgvj7c96@news.supernews.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:a886fp$sq1$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <3ca7978b.251291804 at mammoth.usenet-access.com>,
> A. Jones <netzapper at magicstar.net> wrote:
> >
> >I seem to have either overlooked, or completely missed a function
that
> >allows one to open a specific line of a file.
>
> There isn't one, unless every line of your file is the same length
> (fixed-length records).  You need to read one line at a time until you
> get to the correct line.

If you read the file into a list using readlines(), you can then
access each line by the index into the list. Unfortunately, that
doesn't get you one line without reading the entire file up to
that point...

John Roth






From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 21:09:12 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 04:09:12 +0200
Subject: GUI programming
In-Reply-To: <4fsdauofmus28t630866pgf4cu3n6bp16m@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org> <a84561$p5g$1@wanadoo.fr> <slrnaabbct.npb.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net> <4fsdauofmus28t630866pgf4cu3n6bp16m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20020401020912.GE333@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> [2002-03-31 12:31 +0100]:
> "Charl P. Botha" <cpbotha at i_triple_e.org> wrote:
> 
> >With wxPython, one has to get, configure and build wxWindows first (and this
> >does take quite a while).  
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> 1. Download
> 2. Run Setup
> 3. Use it.
> 
> The whole operation takes less than 5 minutes.
> 
> Well - it does on Windows, anyway.
 
Obviously you've never installed glib, gtk, wxGTK then wxPython all in
/usr/local on a Unix system. Not speaking all the dependencies if wxPython if
you really want to run all of the demos. This can easily take hours.

If you're lucky, however, your distribution already provides all the required
packages in an easy-to-use package. But from the ones I know, only FreeBSD has
the most current wxPython and wxGTK versions in the ports tree. Even Debian
sid, which is quite bleeding edge, still had wxPython 2.2.7 last time I checked
(a few days ago).

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 5.9 ?C      Wind: 1.0 m/s



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 24 04:40:30 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 10:40:30 +0100
Subject: using os.execl to call a java application
References: <3C9D66E9.4070802@northwestern.edu>
Message-ID: <m3g02qs3qp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Louis Luangkesorn <lluang at northwestern.edu> writes:

> Anyone help?

argv[0] of the new process should always be the program name, with
argv[1] being the first argument. So you should add, e.g., "java"
as argv[0].

Regards,
Martin



From newsfroups at jerf.org  Tue Mar  5 01:34:13 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:34:13 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <3C8466F9.2080903@jerf.org>

Reginald B. Charney wrote:

> In Python, are destructors defined to be invoked in reverse order of
> constructors? The following program illustrates the problem:
> 
> class HTML:
>     def __init__(self): print "<HTML>"
>     def __del__(self):  print "</HTML>"
> 
> class BODY:
>     def __init__(self): print "<BODY>"
>     def __del__(self):  print "</BODY>"
> 
> class PHP:
>     def __init__(self): print "<?PHP "
>     def __del__(self):  print "?>"


You aren't trying to actually build an HTML document that way, are you? 
Please tell me this is just for the sake of example. The more 
conventional example would be something like

class example:
	def __init__(self): print "example created"
	def __del__ (self): print "examples destroyed"

Destructors are for cleaning up objects, not traversing trees. If you 
really are trying to build HTML documents, learn how to traverse trees 
correctly.


----
import string

class HTMLTag:
	def __init__(self):
		self.children = []
	def output(self):
		childText = [child.output() for child in self.children]
		return string.join([self.begin] + childText + [self.end])

class HTML(HTMLTag):
	begin = "<HTML>"
	end = "</HTML>"

class BODY(HTMLTag):
	begin = "<BODY>"
	end = "</BODY>"

class PHP(HTMLTag):    # OK, so that's a bit of a semantic stretch...
	begin = "<?PHP "
	end = "?>"

if __name__ == "__main__":
     print "Start of program"
     h = HTML()
     h.children.append(BODY())
     h.children[0].children.append(PHP())
     print h.output()
----


This isn't the One True Implementation of this idea, just a nudge.



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  9 00:17:40 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 00:17:40 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical
 computation?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEALOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENIOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

I hope the bogus underflow problem is fixed in CVS Python now.  Since my
platform didn't have the problem (and still doesn't, of course), we won't
know for sure until people try it and report back.

Python used to link with -lieee, but somebody changed it for a reason
history may have lost.  See comments attached to Huaiyu Zhu's bug report for
more on that:

<http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=525705&group_id=5470&atid=105470>

If someone on a box that had the problem can build current CVS Python with
and without -lieee (I'm told it defaults to "without" today, although that
appears to mixed up with whether or not __fpu_control is found outside of
libieee (search for "ieee" in configure.in)), please try the following in a
shell:

import math
x = 1e200
y = 1/x

math.pow(x, 2)  # expect OverflowError
math.pow(y, 2)  # expect 0.

pow(x, 2)       # expect OverflowError
pow(y, 2)       # expect 0.

x**2            # expect OverflowError
y**2            # expect 0.

If those all work as annotated on a box that had the problem, please report
the success *as a comment to the bug report* (link above).  If one or more
still fail, likewise please give box details and paste the failures into a
comment on the bug report.

Thanks!




From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar  4 20:35:20 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:35:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mult-indexed xrange?
References: <slrna7vqm8.13q.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a5orrg$8vdck$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna8886l.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:23:16 -0800, Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>"Huaiyu Zhu" <huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com> wrote in message
>news:slrna7vqm8.13q.huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com...
>> The generator facility in 2.2 allows me to do something cool that I
>always
>> wanted: looping around multiple indices with just one for-statement,
>as the
>> following code does.  Is this available with some built-in functions?

I forgot to mention: without generating temporary lists.

>
>for (x,y) in [(i,j) for i in range(2) for j in range(3) ]:
>    print x,y
>0 0 0
>0 0 1
...

Is list comprehension lazy, ie. without generating the actual list?  

Huaiyu


From michael at amtec.com  Fri Mar 29 12:11:39 2002
From: michael at amtec.com (Michael Saunders)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:11:39 -0800
Subject: Executing a specific function.
References: <mailman.1017416746.18302.python-list@python.org> <m3eli3wc7p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA4A04A.F37DD1D9@amtec.com>

Martin,

I had seen this API but it requires a "callable". Isn't a callable a PyObject
pointer to a callable function? How do I build the "callable". All I have is a
Python file, "myfile.py" and the name of a function to call "myPthonFunction".

Michael


PyObject* PyObject_CallFunction(PyObject *callable, char *format, ...) 
     Return value: New reference. 
     Call a callable Python object callable, with a variable number of C
     arguments. The C arguments are described using a Py_BuildValue() style
     format string. The format may be NULL, indicating that no arguments are
     provided. Returns the result of the call on success, or NULL on failure.
     This is the equivalent of the Python expression "apply(callable, args)"
     or "callable(*args)". 

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> Michael Saunders <michael at amtec.com> writes:
> 
> > I see that the Python C API provides several interfaces for
> > compiling and executing Python code. But I don't want to just
> > execute some Python code I want to call a particular function within
> > a Python file. How do I call a Python function (from C) in a some
> > .py file?
> 
> It depends on whether you already have a argument tuple, or whether
> you have the arguments as C data. In the former case, use
> PyObject_Call; in the latter case, use PyObject_CallFunction. Also
> notice PyObject_CallMethod.
> 
> HTH,
> Martin
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From pete at dexterslab.de  Fri Mar 29 05:25:13 2002
From: pete at dexterslab.de (Henning Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:25:13 +0100
Subject: chat server
References: <B8C97068.C30E%pete@dexterslab.de> <Xns91E02012713A8cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <a81fbb$ehp$01$1@news.t-online.com>

> There is also a threading module, i don't think you realy want
> separate processes. but it works fine with select.

yes, i've heard of it, but one problem at the same time is enough for me (->
thread safety)

bye,
henning peters




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 08:07:20 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:07:20 -0600
Subject: newbie lists and code examples for OOP.
In-Reply-To: <a5nhub+h9dg@eGroups.com>
References: <a5nhub+h9dg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <15487.32008.202205.269512@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Ale> Firstly: is there a better forum for newbie questions like this
    Ale> one?

There are two mailing lists that might be of interest:
python-help at python.org and tutor at python.org.  They are described,
respectively, at

    http://www.python.org/psa/MailingLists.html#help
and
    http://www.python.org/psa/MailingLists.html#tutor

choose-your-poison-ly, y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From fund at 74.ru  Sun Mar 17 09:06:10 2002
From: fund at 74.ru (fund at 74.ru)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:06:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Mercy and Mutual Aid
Message-ID: <a727sh$frn$2949@image.surnet.ru>

      The program of the mercy stock "Mercy and Mutual Aid" about the financial help for the building of the medicative body for the tuberculosis convicts.

    In resent years in the foundation of criminal corrective system in Russia, particularly in the Chelyabinsk region, is extremely unfortunate background around tuberculosis. The tuberculosis morbidity among the convicts for last 10 (1991-2000) years increased in 13 times and is 3251 people for 100000, in 2000 year, exceeding analogical index among the population in 41 times. 
(79 per 1000000). In   05.04.01 in the foundations of criminal corrective system of our region are 3088 tuberculosis morbidity, particularly with active forms - 1699, nowadays 4,9 per cent of all convicts of the region need isolation.
    The interregion tuberculosis hospital is the one in our region where a high-qualified assistance is allowed. Nowadays here are hospitalized less than a half of needy persons. But this hospital is in a limit of all its resourced, and cease to be a centre of the organize methodical activity of the region calibre. The sanitary norms of the allocation patients: for 1 patient is 1,2x1.2 m. instead of 5x5 m. This constructs extra difficulties in the municipal provision, it leads to the violation sanitary epidemiological regime, forms the facilities for reinfection of patients and contamination our specialists.
       In 1998 the building of the new body was begun. It would consists of 150 positions (rooms).
        The cost of this building is 370000 dollars of USA. But there are only 60000 dollars of USA.
       Nowadays the finance from the Federal and Local budget could not be for the absence of money. But we hope for your help. We believe in your mercy and God is with us. All the financial help will help us to build new hospital. It lets us to improve sanitary hygienic maintenance, to supply a new degree of treatment for our patients.
        Dear Friends! We need your help. For each of you we will set fire on the candles in the churches. The god stores all of you!

Thank you. The chairman of the stock V. Kravtsov.

email: fund at 74.ru

Your money enumerate by electronic payment on our account:

USD:

JP MORGAN CHASE BANK, N.A.
4 CHASE METROTECH CENTER, BROOKLIN, NEW YORK 11245,USA.
SWIFT: CHASUS33

account ? 001-1-907425 with CHELYABINVESTBANK, Chelyabinsk, Russia,
SWIFT: CHINRU4C,

in favour of account ? 30109840400680000006,
JSC "URICOM-BANK", Chelyabinsk, Russia

BENEFICIARY

account ? 40602840900007000212 
Charitable Fund of "Mutual aid and Mercy"

DETAILS OF PAYMENT :

"CHARITY DONATION".

EURO:

COMMERZBANK AG,
60261 FRANKFURT AM MAIN, GERMANY,
SWIFT: COBADEFF

account ? 400887199800EUR with CHELYABINVESTBANK, Chelyabinsk, Russia,
SWIFT: CHINRU4C

in favour of account ? 30109978000680000006
JSC "URICOM-BANK", Chelyabinsk, Russia.

BENEFICIARY

account ? 40602840900007000212 
Charitable Fund of "Mutual aid and Mercy"

DETAILS OF PAYMENT :

"CHARITY DONATION ".

 



From morton at dennisinter.com  Sat Mar  9 11:40:50 2002
From: morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 08:40:50 -0800
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com>

Ok, I see how this works. 

'<string1> in <string2>' would always returns false; as the elements
of a <string2> are all characters you can never find <string1> amongst
them (unless its a string of length 1).

Its counter-intuitive for someone playing with strings as strings
rather than as sequences of characters, however.

'c' in 'the quick brown fox'     -> 1

'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'   -> 1 (instead of TypeError)

Is there any circumstance where youd expect (or want) the later not to
work? I expected and wanted it to work (but instead got an error), its
quite a clear and unambiguous expression (for strings only).


Justin Sheehy <justin at iago.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list at python.org>...
> morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton) writes:
> 
> >>>> 'c' in 'the quick brown fox'
>  1
> >>>> 'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
> >
> > is this by design?
> >
> > is there any reason why '<string> in <string>' shouldnt work?
> 
> The "in" operator tests to see if the first operand is an element of
> the sequence which is the second element.  A string is a sequence of
> characters (which are 1-element strings).  Thus, the only thing which
> can be an element of a string is a single character.
> 
> -Justin


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 17:56:59 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:56:59 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
In-Reply-To: <a7qps1$7u2s9$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>
	<a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org>
	<a7qps1$7u2s9$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <20020326145659.20c77d92.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 26 Mar 2002 21:40:17 GMT
Uwe Schmitt wrote:

> Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> | That may be the case, but Jeff brought up some good points.  It looks
odd
> | to create a window in this fashion (it looks procedural rather than
OO).  A
> | more typical approach would be something like:
> 
> I know what you mean, but I'd like to write a general procedure
> which generates an input/output mask based on a relational database
> describption. And this mask may appear in a wxFrame *or* a wxDialog.
> So I use the "parent" of the mask as a parameter of my function...
 
So why not derive from wxPanel rather than wxFrame or wxDialog and then
place the panel in a frame or dialog depending upon your needs?  You could
pass a list of the fields you want as an argument to __init__.  For
example:

class InputPanel(wxPanel):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, fields):
        wxPanel.__init__(self, parent, id)
        gridSizer= wxFlexGridSizer(cols=2)

        for label, size in fields:
            t = wxStaticText(self, -1, label)
            tt = wxTextCtrl(self, -1, "", size=wxSize(size,-1))
            gridSizer.AddMany([
                (t, 1, wxALL | wxALIGN_RIGHT | wxALIGN_CENTER_VERTICAL, 3),
                (tt, 1, wxALL |wxALIGN_LEFT, 3)
                ])

        gridSizer.SetSizeHints(self)
        gridSizer.Fit(self)
        self.SetSizer(gridSizer)
        self.SetAutoLayout(true)
        self.Layout()

class InputDialog(wxDialog):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, fields):
        wxDialog.__init__(self, parent, id, "")
        sizer = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)
        self.SetSizer(sizer)
        self.SetAutoLayout(true)
        panel = InputPanel(self, -1, fields)
        sizer.Add(panel, 1, wxEXPAND)
        sizer.Fit(self)
        
app = wxPySimpleApp()


fields = [("Name", 100),
          ("Address", 200),
          ("Phone", 20)]

window = InputDialog(None, -1, fields)
window.ShowModal()

To have it in a frame, simply create another class similar to InputDialog
that uses a wxFrame instead.  With this, you can also embed the panel in
something else, for instance a wxNotebook.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 11 00:11:31 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:11:31 -0500
Subject: Internships and summer jobs
References: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0203102103050.13778-100000@death.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C8C3C83.21C9ED00@engcorp.com>

Brett Cannon wrote:
> 
> Is there any place out there to find a list of Python-related internships
> or summer jobs?  How about entry-level Python jobs?  I don't know about
> others, but I am graduating from school and looking for any of the three
> types of jobs mentioned above and would love to know of a place online
> listing such opportunities for people like me with Python experience.  

> And I really doubt I am the only Python programmer graduating come summer.

No, there's actually TWO of you, but there's only one job, so you'd better
brush up on lambdas and name spaces. <wink>

(Good luck in the search! :)

-Peter


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar 11 23:51:37 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:51:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com> <slrna8o03d.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C8C02B3.674898B0@engcorp.com>  <3C8C0460.993A4F81@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8r2ap.343.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <3C8C0460.993A4F81 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
[...]
>Just posted to the TDD mailing list, coincidentally:
>
> http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html
>
>Anyone care to calculate the total for our pet crackpot?  :-)

Well, I can give a reliable lower limit: 50 points.

Just see item 32: "50 points for claiming that you have a
revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions."

>-Peter

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From jcosby at mindspring.com  Sun Mar 31 10:15:41 2002
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Jon Cosby)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:15:41 -0800
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xU6p8.28161$VJ1.2411615@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a84eu0$g8t$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <a87970$i9q$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Is a line from a file an ordinary  string?

Jon






From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar 12 11:11:05 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:11:05 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch>

From: Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com>
> In article <3c8e0911_1 at news.bluewin.ch>,
> Samuele Pedroni <pedronis at bluewin.ch> wrote:
> >
> >Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> >mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list at python.org...
> >> So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
> >> Herald - see
> >> http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html
> >>
> >
> >It's probably just the journalist's fault but I find the article
frivolous
> >and vague.
> >
> >What he is concretely working about? What he contretely want to work
about?
> >etc... There are many possible integration philosophies and technologies?
> >and both aspects tech/philosophy are far from irrelevant.
> >(The frozen Python.NET as a full fledged Python or limited
> >and altered, a new attempt in that direction, bridging ...)
> >
> >Is he working in stealth-mode or it is just MS-kind PR <wink>?
> >
> >What kind of Python technologies will the book treat?
> >
> >Just some academic questions. regards.
> >
> >
>
> My background is academic.  I spend a lot of time nowadays
> journalistically.  I can assure you that this article is
> *not* frivolous or vague--at least not in comparison with
> most of what appears in the popular and trade presses.
>

What's your point, exactly?

My point was direct, maybe rude, and
there were too few <wink>s,
but basically I find that the article per se
does not do any good. I don't know
Mark personally and have nothing against
him.

I find its incipit quite frivolous, at least for the form.
YMMV.
Now it is *not* frivilous in the sense that it has
started, can start a "debate". But maybe
not the right way ...

And what datapoints we acquire through
the article?

That .NET is like Java and contour and not
simply Passport and Web Services.
I knew that.

That De Icaza is a misunderstood
guy: probably.

regards.

PS: - My background is academic too.
- Personally, I have nothing against Python and .NET integration,
but not all the possible technical solutions do the same
amount of good to all the "parties" involved.




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 19 15:26:34 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:26:34 GMT
Subject: Newbie: word count and Win32
References: <e9cd3ea2.0203190421.904cdfb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a786tq$s81$0@216.39.172.122>

On 19 Mar 2002 04:21:10 -0800, jchristl at zdnetmail.com (Joe Christl) wrote:

>newbie here (don't you just cringe when you read that? :),
>
>I downloaded the python EXE from
>http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.2/, found a script on the
>mail.python.org Tutor page:
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2001-February/003403.html
 ^...[1]
>
>but I can't seem to get it to run.  I would like it to run from the
>C:\ command prompt, like so:
>
>c:\count.py foo.txt   (or)
>c:\count.pyc foo.txt
>
>and have it output the lines, words, and characters.  I have tried to
>even get it working from the >>> prompt, to no avail.
>
>Am I doing something wrong here?
>
>From a quick look that[1] script, it looks like it expects to read
from stdin only. I.e., it says

    # iterate over each line on stdin
    for line in sys.stdin.readlines() :
        ...

To feed the script's stdin you'll have to redirect or pipe data to it.
To pipe stuff on windows to a python script you have to run the interpreter
(python) explicitly one way or another, so I would try:

    python count.py < foo.txt

or you could pipe the output of the windows type command, like:

    type foo.txt | python count.py

To make the script work like what you expected, it needs to look
at the command line arguments (sys.argv) for a file name and open that,
and use the resulting file object in place of stdin.

BTW, IMO you get a nicer ouput if you change the last line of the script to
     print '%6d: %s' % (words[word], word)

As an exercise, you could modify it to accept an option on the command line
to output in order of frequency instead of alphbetically, and also accept
a file name. Then look into the glob module and see if you can make it
do multiple files from a wild card spec. Have fun.

You may want to look at various scripts that were put on your disk when
you installed, e.g. in wahtever corresponds to D:\Python22\Tools\Scripts\*
on your system. Look at some small stuff first.

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 19:14:28 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:14:28 -0500
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
References: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C840DE4.B5782604@engcorp.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
> default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
> without drowning.

I've seen the many other replies, but none pointed out that the installer
with 2.2 has an "Advanced Options..." button which lets you install under
the per-user area of the registry instead of the per-machine area.  This,
combined with telling it not to register the file extensions, might 
limit the "damage" to a single user on that machine.  If you set up 
a special user just to catch the new installation, it might work reasonably
painlessly.  Of course, I haven't tested this approach myself so YMMS
("s" for suck...)

-Peter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 20:33:29 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 20:33:29 -0500
Subject: Python/Linux
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886hv$st6$1@panix1.panix.com> <U5Op8.61601$Q7.48626359@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a88dd9$c63$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <U5Op8.61601$Q7.48626359 at e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>,
Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Forgot to ask, is Zope's database server actually MySQL under the hood?
>If not, does it compare well as far as functionality and stability are
>concerned?  BTW, do you use Zope or Quixote?  Hope you don't mind all
>these question.

Zope can use MySQL, but its default is to use its own object-oriented
ZODB.  I don't use either; I'm not much of a web developer.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Mar 27 21:03:24 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:03:24 -0800
Subject: DSN question
References: <13a0323e.0203271459.14905cde@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7tu01$nodis$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Jeremy Reed
> Is there a way to programmatically create a DSN?
>
> I'm trying to create a program that connects to a MS SQL database
> using the mxODBC package.  However, I don't necessarily want to
> subject the users of the program to the task of manually creating a
> DSN.  It seems to me that there should be some way to do it
> programmatically, but I haven't been able to locate and documentation
> on it.
>

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=4xDh6.66249%24bb.1038647%40ne
ws1.rdc1.tx.home.com

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From mats at laplaza.org  Thu Mar  7 15:46:38 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:46:38 GMT
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3c87d103.26130283@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:23:02 -0800, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

:In article <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
: Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:
:
:>  Perceived lack.  IE, this is a solution looking for a problem.  I read it
:> and really have to ask.... why?  If people have a problem with it they just
:> need to flip open their Python book and take a few seconds to look it up.
:
:The situation where I came across this perceived lack was attempting to 
:use Python syntax to explain the algorithms in an algorithms class 
:(useful exercise btw, I think the students gained from being able to see 
:code that actually worked instead of pseudocode, and Python allows many 
:algorithms to be expressed clearly without distracting the students with 
:lots of unnecessary pointer-banging).
:
:Some algorithms (especially in dynamic programming) are expressed most 
:naturally in terms of integer loops, the ranges of the loops are often 
:closed rather than open or sometimes need to go in backwards rather than 
:forward order.  Python's range() syntax makes this awkward and detracts 
:from the reason I wanted to use Python: a simple syntax that expresses 
:algorithms cleanly and understandably, that does not force students to 
:buy Python books (this is very much not a programming class) or look up 
:unfamiliar syntax, and that also is able to run those algorithms 
:directly.

You need to separate range() from the loop. After all, range is not
specifically related to loops, it's just handy when doing for loops.

I show this interactively.

"""Loops let you apply an operation repeatedly to a sequence of
values. Conceptually,

For each item in sequence,
   print the square of item

To show this using Python, let's first generate the sequence.
The range function is a handy helper: Let's use range to make a list
of numbers that counts down from ten to one by ones: """

>>> seq = range(10, 0, -1)
>>> print seq
[10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1]

""" Now let's see how a loop works:  """

>>> for item in seq:
	print item ** 2

	
100
81
64
49
36
25
16
9
4
1


If you'e going on to teach Python, you'd tell 'em those can of course
be combined.

Mats Wichmann



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 15 16:09:23 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 21:09:23 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net> <a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <mailman.1016138490.22557.python-list@python.org> <a6sl8j$4au$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <a6tnu3$bi9$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Mar 2002 11:17:39 GMT, Peter Dobcsanyi <dpeter at designtheory.org> wrote:

>Tim Legant <tim-dated-1016743233.4ed988 at catseye.net> wrote:
>> No.  Your bar() function is broken and the test results invalid.  Try
>> this instead:
>> 
>> def bar(ls):
>>    i = 0
>>    for x in ls:
>>        if x == '998':
>>            return i
>>        i += 1
>
>Oops, you are right! I fixed it and ran the test again.
>
>3000 times, Python 2.2, Linux:
>
>    i in range(len(ls)):             2.03
>    x in ls; i+= :                   2.28
>    lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x):  3.76
>    Iter class:                     10.18
>
>10000 times:
>
>    i in range(len(ls)):             6.68
>    x in ls; i+=1 :                  7.55
>    lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x): 12.56
>    Iter class:                     35.56
>
>Interestingly, "range(len(ls))" is still faster.
>
I wonder how the proportions would change if len(ls)
were 1,000,000 instead of 1,000
and/or if you used xrange in place of range.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mathew at forte.jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Mar  4 22:39:07 2002
From: mathew at forte.jpl.nasa.gov (Mathew Yeates)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:39:07 -0800
Subject: Python Refactoring Browser
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.04.19.39.07.254668.2094979@forte.jpl.nasa.gov>

I am in desperate need of a refactoring browser for python. I've written a
fairly large program and now am trying to clean it up. I change a member
variable and WHAM I break my code in 95 different locations.

I'm aware of Bicycle Repair Man http://bicyclerepair.sourceforge.net/,
which, when better developed will be exactly what I want. There is also
PyIDEA http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyidea/, but it's just starting up.
And Boa  ( http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ ) doesnt seem designed
for refactoring although I have been using its automatic UML generation to
give me ideas on how to reorganize classes.

When I'm programming in C, I have cscope which I use with a VIM interface.
Its not much but at least I can locate variables easily.

Has anyone else refactored a large Python program? How did you do it?

Mathew


From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Mon Mar 11 17:54:43 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0800
Subject: Zope stdin
In-Reply-To: <3C8D3294.704@void.si>
References: <3C8BECF0.30207@void.si> <mailman.1015870530.2000.python-list@python.org> <3C8D3294.704@void.si>
Message-ID: <200203112254.g2BMsBq01554@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

On March 11, 2002 02:41 pm, you wrote:
> > Why can you not do this in Zope as Python Script, External Method or even
> > DTML?  The Zope mailing lists are normally a good place for answers BTW.
>
> I dont know how to write it in python script, I waste a lot of time
> without any progress, ok i learned something about security model, get
> familiar with some Zope source code. Then I gave up and wrote it with
> mod_python in a hour. I know that mod_python is not an app server, so I
> will have to join yet-another-mailing list, but I am not sure that this
> is posible with zope.

Ok then. But for the record yes it's rather straightforward in Zope, once 
you've gotten over the whats going on in Zope hump :)
-- 
  Andy McKay



From bbollenbach at shaw.ca  Tue Mar 12 22:13:37 2002
From: bbollenbach at shaw.ca (Brad Bollenbach)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:13:37 GMT
Subject: ANN: Python User Group in Winnipeg, Canada
Message-ID: <Btzj8.131493$kb.7323630@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>

Hi,

I'm soliciting interest for creating a Python User Group here in Winnipeg,
Canada (Guido has done me the favour of posting this advert on Python's
official User Groups page, thanks again Guido :).

If you're in the area, and interested in attending, please let me know
of your interest by dropping me an email at:

bbollenbach at shaw.ca

Thanks,

Brad Bollenbach
Systems Developer // Python Geek
bbollenbach at shaw.ca


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar  3 18:21:53 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:21:53 +1100 
Subject: Python's Syntax
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1CD@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

http://www.python.org/doc/

In particular, the Python Tutorial ...

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

Tim Delaney



From JamesL at Lugoj.com  Sun Mar 31 19:10:06 2002
From: JamesL at Lugoj.com (James Logajan)
Date: 1 Apr 2002 00:10:06 GMT
Subject: multithreading and Tkinter
References: <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu> <m3pu1yrz2w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91E2A4FE99EA8JamesLLugojcom@216.148.53.85>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote:
[ On a thread signalling the Tkinter mainloop thread: ]
> If you want to delete the need for an after() method altogether, you
> could register an after_idle callback. You can do that from a
> different thread; Tkinter will call the after_idle callback from the
> same thread that runs the mainloop.

Has anyone ever tried using after_idle in a worker thread as a way to 
signal a Tkinter mainloop thread? I'm wondering if this proposal is 
really thread safe, since technically a worker thread is making a call to 
Tk (even if it is nothing more than registering a callback) while the 
mainloop thread may also be in the process of making calls to Tk. I haven't 
tried it but have been considering it, but wanted to know if this was a 
reasonable solution.

Thanks!


From ceck at lakota-tsi.com  Tue Mar 19 11:38:52 2002
From: ceck at lakota-tsi.com (Cris Eck)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 08:38:52 -0800
Subject: Extending Python/Tkinter
Message-ID: <5acdbd0c.0203190838.20c3733e@posting.google.com>

I have a C++ class that draws maps that I've been assigned to extend
into python.  The class uses X primitive calls (XDrawPoint, etc.) to
do much of the work and I'm at a loss on how to integrate this as an
extension to Python.  Initially I thought  I could get a drawable,
display and graphics context from the Tk C API.  Then I saw that
Tkinter is using the Tcl interpreter and not calling the Tk routines
directly.  Now I'm lost.  I'm a newbie to Python/Tk/Tcl and hitting
info overload from looking through so many books and web pages (sorry
is this is a bad question).  I'm missing something crucial or this
approach is half-baked or both.

-c


From jolsen at mailme.dk  Fri Mar  1 02:23:45 2002
From: jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 23:23:45 -0800
Subject: Numeric Python Installation woes
References: <m3elj6ocvs.fsf@mycomp.tky.hut.fi> <cf0ad9fb.0202280307.2951ec2c@posting.google.com> <2dg03lvk1q.fsf@james.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <cf0ad9fb.0202282323.3340ca5@posting.google.com>

I do not know what is wrong, but as the error messages suggest, it
seems your python 2.2 instalation is the problem.

Have you otherwise tested python 2.2?

Maybe you should re-install it (python 22) and get rid of the two old installations.

Cheers
Jesper


> For some reasons even after upgrading to python 2.2 python 1.5 is
> still there in the bin.
> 
> Wishes and thankx in advance
> karthik
> 
> -- 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Karthikesh Raju,		    email: karthik at james.hut.fi		
> Researcher,			    http://www.cis.hut.fi/karthik
> Helsinki University of Technology,  Tel: +358-9-451 5389
> Laboratory of Comp. & Info. Sc.,    Fax: +358-9-451 3277
> Department of Computer Sc.,
> P.O Box 5400, FIN 02015 HUT,
> Espoo, FINLAND
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------


From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 18:26:56 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:26:56 GMT
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com> <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1016218106.2021.python-list@python.org> <Cgsk8.17912$P4.1544592@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <u8z8tzcwt.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <4rvk8.18218$P4.1576669@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

> And from a pure learning perspective, that's a perfectly fine idea,
> one I strongly suggest to anyone trying to understand how the Internet
> works under the covers.

Thanks for your support!

> Also to be fair, in many cases originally VRFY would still not be 100%
> accurate, since if a mail server was built to relay mail elsewhere,
> then by definition it would VRFY any address that was properly formed
> (but would be relayed off that machine) as being good - even if it
> would eventually bounce once a message to that address was really
> transmitted.  In that case the VRFY was just telling you the address
> was good to the machine you were talking to, but unless you were
> certain that machine was responsible for final delivery of the mail,
> it might not guarantee delivery.

This is exactly what I encountered.  Most server just check the format of
the email addresses instead of existence of the users.  I can't hit the box
that is responsible for handling the mails.

Thanks anyway!

Billy Ng




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Mon Mar 11 02:50:03 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:50:03 +0900
Subject: python as gvim scripting lang -- examples please
References: <ERTi8.10088$gN5.2306926740@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <U8Zi8.4$ID.91@news.hananet.net>

googlePoster scribbled with his keyboard:
> I would like to see some example python gvim scripts
> so I could get started with some simple stuff -- need access
> to runtimepath, range, etc
> 

:he python 

Jonathan

(PS. Read all of it.)


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar 13 10:32:24 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 15:32:24 GMT
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <slrna8sind.nfu.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a6lplc$lrg$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1015967242.23615.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8us88.ol4.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1015967242.23615.python-list at python.org>, 
	Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> That was AMK.  It seems the Parrot guys are more interested in
> micro-optimizations and adding regex support to the VM than in
> supporting Python on Parrot.  Too bad.

To expand on that response a bit: you still can't use Parrot to
implement any vaguely "real" programming language because there's no
support for implementing variables.  Once you've filled up all 32 PMC
registers, there's no way to spill any registers to memory because
there are no opcodes to do so.  I'd really like to work on a
Python-to-Parrot translator some more, but right now there's no point
in trying to do so because there would be no way of implementing
Python's scoping.

Unfortunately development effort seems to be going to premature
optimization -- an x86 JIT, regex opcodes, counting the cycles taken
by the main loop -- instead of filling in the missing pieces, so I'm
getting increasingly skeptical that Parrot will provide a useful
substrate for anything.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
I suppose the best way to find out where you come from is to find out
where you're going, and then work backwards.
    -- The Doctor, in "City of Death"


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar  2 03:25:38 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 09:25:38 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5nhn5$8c3$0@216.39.172.122> <j47koweh9l.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5pd8q$qnd$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m3sn7jbcl9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> Will the following work?
> 
>  >>> print u'\u0041'
>  A
>  >>> print u'\u221e'
> 
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>  >>>

With the patch to print Unicode to the Windows console, the
UnicodeError will be gone. Whether or not Lucida Unicode supports that
character, I cannot say.

> And if I redirect the output to a file, what will be in the file?

Since the isatty test fails, the system default encoding will be used.
Unless you've changed that, you'll get a UnicodeError again.

Regards,
Martin


From danieln at stud.cs.uit.no  Wed Mar 13 05:20:12 2002
From: danieln at stud.cs.uit.no (Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?Nyg=E5rd?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:20:12 +0100
Subject: dictonary
Message-ID: <3C8F27DC.F69B1F54@stud.cs.uit.no>

How do I insert a dictionary into a database (_mysql)?

db = _mysql.connect()
string = {
	hello:'wow', 
	something:'nothing',
	nothing : 'something',
	number : 5,
	name : 'daniel'}

then I have a database with the same attributes as the keys in the dict.
above.
How do I insert the whole dict into the database.

thanks

Daniel Nyg?rd


From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 10:48:07 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:48:07 +0100
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122> <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com> <11e94203.0203261553.24850b7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020327104817.817$v3@news.newsreader.com>

"Jose Rivera" <jriveramerla at yahoo.com> escribi?
> The URL calculated :
>
>
http://avisos.elnorte.com/casa_venta_result.asp?fotos=0&Order=order+by+colo
nia&Precio_i=-1&Presentacion=Tabla&Precio_f=-1&PLANTAS=0&pagina=1&id_inmueb
le=3&dia=&RECAMARAS=0&constr_f=-1&COLONIA=0&BANOS=0&Tipo=CASAS&Constr_i=-1&
Terreno_i=-1&Terreno_f=-1&zona=0
>
>  works on my PC, but:
>
> The first time it gives me the error that you said, but a click on the
> http address of iExplorer and an enter on the keyboard load
> succesfully the page.

sorry, but i've got the same error here. are you sure you are not getting
the page content from the cache?
urllib.urlopen() is the same as opening the html page as a local file.
(except of course if the site is playing with your browser using plugins,
for
instance.)

if you still have problems, another thing you can try is to use COM to
drive IExplorer from python. you'll need the win32all package or the
ActiveState Python distrbution for this.

but still you have to parse that page to get the data afterwards.

connecting to some port/account/whatever to get the raw data, as
another poster suggests, seems the way you'd want to go.

regards,
-hernan









From maurelius01 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 11:25:27 2002
From: maurelius01 at hotmail.com (Marc)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:25:27 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203221625560.29408-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <3C9B5AF7.9E9C54F2@hotmail.com>


Pearu Peterson wrote:
> 
> On 21 Mar 2002, Marc wrote:
> 
> > class ImStream_SavedBitmaps(cbase01.CImStream):
> >
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
>           ^^^^^
> This should be cbase01, right?
> 
> > ***************************************************************
> >
> > If I run test02 I get the traceback
> >
> > Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\test02.py", line 15, in ?
> >     x0 = wrappers_A01.ImStream_SavedBitmaps()
> >   File "D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\wrappers_A01.py", line 21,
> > in __init__
> >     cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
> > TypeError: unbound method must be called with class instance 1st
> > argument
> 
> Though, I cannot explain how the above typo could cause this exception.
> 
> Pearu

Yes, this was a typo, as I explained in my
response to Aahz.  An unfortunate distraction
because this does seem to be on odd behavior and I
would like to figure it out.  The problem seems to
be in the reload() statement but I can't find
anything in the docs or web that applies, or at
least that I understand to apply.  Maybe I'll ask
the list again but without the typo and simplified
class names.

Thanks,
Marc


From sjh at shic.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 13:03:41 2002
From: sjh at shic.co.uk (Steve)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 10:03:41 -0800
Subject: calldll and threads...
Message-ID: <ef8e9188.0203261003.3b7a7681@posting.google.com>

I could benefit from words of wisdom... this is the situation:

I want to use Python as a high level language to write a test suite
for a complex shared library (I've a windows DLL acting as proxy to
remote server(s)) which has several blocking calls, and for which the
interleaving and overlapping of calls is very significant. I need to
drive a client to demonstrate code coverage on the server side - there
is a large degree of server side interaction between concurrently
executing client actions.

In Python, my first attempt used thread.start_new_thread() when
executing a python wrapper for a call which could block.. which I
later rewrote to use threading.Thread.  Initially all seemed well
until I found that the whole python program blocked waiting for the
first blocking call to the DLL.  Then I read about the "Global
Interpreter Lock" and went on to look at the source for calldll.pyd -
which didn't seem to address threading.  I tried following the advice
in the python docs:

Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
//...Do some blocking I/O operation... making sure not to use
return...
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS

Which I used to wrapper all calls to dll functions with a customised
calldll... the above code massaged into call_foreign_function()... 
but I now find that while the very first call to my modified calldll
seems to work fine - subsequent calls crash the python interpreter.

Has anyone else had similar problems with calldll or anything like it?
Can anyone explain what I've done wrong with Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
and friend? Do other people use python to script similar regression
test scenarios? Is there a standard mechanism to make a blocking call
from a python thread?

Thanks in advance,
Steve
[P.S. In case it's relevant. I'm using the Python 2.2 release from
www.python.org with the calldll source from www.nightmare.com running
under windows NT 4 with the Win32all build 146 using PythonWin as a
development environment]


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 12:28:57 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:28:57 -0800
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
In-Reply-To: <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk>
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org>
	<3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch>
	<DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net>
	<3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch>
	<m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com>
	<m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <20020313092857.4765dd0d.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:35:48 +0000
Max M wrote:

> This could also just be a sign that there is interrest, but the people 
> using win32all might not be able to publish a build themself?
> 
> Not everybody is as knowledgable as Mark, Even though we work on the 
> superior Windows platform ;-)

And quite possibly because not many people using the superior Windows
platform <cough> have a C compiler available to them.  Probably due to
thoughtfulness on Microsoft's part ;)

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 22:58:38 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 03:58:38 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a69lml$b2v$0@216.39.172.122> <j84i8.2776$Ni.254846@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6bb3c$c5l$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8C2521.10B2D6D8@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <a6ha1e$opu$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:31:45 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> 
>> Would someone explain this:
>> 
>>  >>> eval("list(r'\x07')")
>>  ['\x07']
>>  >>> list(r'\x07')
>>  ['\\', 'x', '0', '7']
>
>The string literal you're passing to eval is
>non-raw, so the \x07 gets interpreted before
>eval even sees it. Try this instead:
>
>   >>> eval(r"list(r'\x07')")
>
Aaugh, touch? & d'oh. That's embarrassing  ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 24 06:56:55 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:56:55 GMT
Subject: module is in the folder - what am i doing wrong??
References: <T1fn8.5030$EE4.17777@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3C9D975B.40600@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <bajn8.5630$EE4.21273@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Thanks for your reply Jim,

i have a file "xml.py" and it has a function named "getProjects()" and i
simply wish to access it from c. i have the source....

#include <Py/Python.h>

int main (int argc, char *argv[]) {
        // declare variables
        PyObject *modname = NULL;
        PyObject *mod = NULL;

        // init
        Py_Initialize();

        modname = PyString_FromString("xml");
        mod = PyImport_Import(modname);
        if (mod == NULL) printf("mod is null\n");

        Py_XDECREF(mod);
        Py_XDECREF(modname);
        Py_Exit(0);
}

but when i try to run it, it prints "mod is null", meaning it cant find the
module. but the module is named "xml.py" and is in the current folder!! what
am i doing wrong???

i dont see why it is so hard. it's just that ive fallen in a small hole
(idom).. just one of those things when you learn a new language... i just
need a little help. im sure someone knows :(

ive thought of using exec, but this way is far more elegant.. so i've read.
but not proven.

Please HELP!
Cheers
Trung Hoang
Final year Undergraduate of Computer Science and Technology
University of Sydney, Australia.




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Mon Mar 25 07:35:05 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 12:35:05 GMT
Subject: communication with a java applet
References: <3C9F100D.BAB4F24D@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9u60c.18c.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <3C9F100D.BAB4F24D at hotmail.com>, Looping wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am trying to make a real-time system communicate with a java applet
> under IE 5.5. I only have a pyd file (Python 1.5.2) to get the floats
> calculated on the platform and I wonder how to make the platform
> communicate with my java applet : TCP/IP, CORBA, shared memory,
> others... ?

AFAIK Java doesn't have access to shared memory. Any remote procedure or object
protocol will do (CORBA, XML-RPC, SOAP). XML-RPC is a very easy one, but even
CORBA isn't difficult to use from Python. I'd recommend to use omniORBpy if you
want to go the CORBA way.

Don't worry that using a network layer is slow. If you're running both the
applet and the Python app on the same machine, the OS will use the loopback
interface, which is quite a bit optimized and about as fast as shared memory.

Gerhard


From brian at lodoss.org  Mon Mar  4 04:30:34 2002
From: brian at lodoss.org (Brian)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 01:30:34 -0800
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <8fc4b19e.0203040130.17140530@posting.google.com>

Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message news:<a5um79$ict$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl>...
>     >>> class MyClass: pass
>     >>> z = map(lambda x: C(), range(3))

Ahh, thank you very much.  For some reason this was eluding me
earlier.  Clearly I need to spend more time with lambda, map & friends
;-)

I'm happy with the performance of the expression too; I'm using a
similar map expression as an argument to Numeric.array() now and it
works very well for me.

(Aside: Numeric is fun to play with!)


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 07:41:59 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:41:59 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a8706n$a3i$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Terry,

> C. Anyone learning Python has some idea of truth and truth values.
> But I am sure there are some with no idea of what 'bool' means and
> only a vague idea about 'Boolean'.  Better formalizing Python truth
> values should make them even easier to learn; why not call them what
> they are?

That's an excellent point, as are the others you make.  My Mum would
understand true but not bool or Boolean.


Ralph.



From frr at wanadoo.es  Sat Mar  9 12:10:14 2002
From: frr at wanadoo.es (Fernando Rodríguez)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:10:14 +0100
Subject: Tokenize a string or split on steroids
References: <4lpj8u4nbsoqjf2h4upadti62jh4sf4i59@4ax.com> <3C89F25F.A560003F@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <h7dk8ugb8e1knu48bma8vns1jjb85pl6s5@4ax.com>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:30:40 GMT, Bob Follek <b.follek at verizon.net> wrote:


>If you're unfamiliar with regular expressions, here's a good starting
>point: http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/regex/regex.html

Thanks. :-) BTW, the strings that must be tokenized contain other non
alphanumeric characters (parenthese, for example), so I tried another regex:
[{}].

The result, although usable, is sort of weird:

>>> s = "{one}{two}"
>>> x1 = re.compile('[{}]')
>>> x1.split(s)
['', 'one', '', 'two', '']

Where are those empty strings coming from??? :-?
I can filter() them out, but I wonder where they come from.... O:-)

TIA



| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Fernando Rodr?guez   frr at EasyJob.NET 
| http://www.EasyJob.NET/
| Expert resume and cover letter creation system. 
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From narnett at mccmedia.com  Wed Mar 20 13:33:55 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:33:55 -0800
Subject: Remove empty lines
In-Reply-To: <a7ajgm$8q1$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJCEKLJLAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Bengt Richter
> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 10:14 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Remove empty lines

[snip]

> >
> >    lines=re.split("\n",str)
> >
> >    for line in lines:   # Here I try to remove the emty lines
> >
> >        if line== '':

The problem is here, I think.  Split in Python appears to return the
separator, so the '\n' characters are still there.  If that's the problem,
this should fix it.

if line == '\n':

At least, that's my suspicion, without testing.  (In Perl, the separators
are not returned by default, so if you came to Python from Perl, like me,
this is confusing.)

Nick




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  1 20:38:35 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 01:38:35 GMT
Subject: Minor, minor style question
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.1015002783.32392.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5paer$gfs$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:14:54 -0500, Justin Sheehy <justin at iago.org> wrote:
[...]
>If those really are the two things being compared, there's a far
>better option:
>
>>>> string = ("abc"
>...           "def"
>...           "xyz")
>>>> string
>'abcdefxyz'
>
I prefer
 >>> string = (
 ...     "abc"
 ...     "def"
 ...     "ghi"
 ... )
 >>> string
 'abcdefghi'

(Oops, don't mean to say I prefer ghi over xyz ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 30 02:28:21 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:28:21 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA56915.62947DDC@alcyone.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:

> I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
> a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.

Outstanding!  I've been waiting and hoping for Booleans in Python since
I first was introduced to it.

>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
> 
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

Yes, I believe so.

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

I agree with you; having repr(True) == str(True) == "True" makes sense
to me.

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).

I'm also a C, C++, and Java guy, but I think that True and False (rather
than true and false) are more Python, as you say, given None.  Internal
consistency makes more sense to me than matching other languages.

>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>        me.

No strong opinion here; either solution seems acceptable to me.

>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.

No strong opinion here either, leaning toward leaving it be.  I think it
should return a bool, since it's effectively converting an arbitrary
expression to a Boolean, but with a bool type and the new trends toward
type unification, one could write bool(expr), which should be the
equivalent of operator.truth(expr) but with type bool, and is shorter.

>     Because the repr() or str() of a bool value is different from an
>     int value, some code (for example doctest-based unit tests, and
>     possibly database code that relies on things like "%s" % truth)
>     may fail.  How much of a backwards compatibility problem this will
>     be, I don't know.  If we this turns out to be a real problem, we
>     could changes the rules so that str() of a bool returns "0" or
>     "1", while repr() of a bool still returns "False" or "True".

Where is the backward compatibility problem for using bool?  At present,
no one uses it, so none of their types will be bools (right?).  Even if
they happen to use the values True and False (or whatever gets adopted),
those can be overridden just like None, so if they define and use them
they should get their values, not Python's.  Right?

>     It has been suggested that, in order to satisfy user expectations,
>     for every x that is considered true in a Boolean context, the
>     expression x == True should be true, and likewise if x is
>     considered false, x == False should be true.

I agree with your assessment; I don't agree at all with this suggestion.
6 is not equal to True, even if 6 when converted to a bool is a True. 
Python doesn't do (and shouldn't do) this kind of implicit conversion,
so the objection does not follow.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Mar 24 12:00:35 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 19:00:35 +0200
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuadsx2958.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list at python.org>, "Clark C
. Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> writes:

| Is there some rule of thumb that I can use to estimate,
| for example, take the character data you have and multiply by
| a factor of 4 to find the in-memory footprint of tuples, and
| each map is 1K plus 64 bytes per entry..

make a zillion of them, check memory usage increase with ps (or
equivalent on your platform), and divide by zillion.

  -- erno


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar 11 01:43:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 06:43:42 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a69lml$b2v$0@216.39.172.122> <j84i8.2776$Ni.254846@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6bb3c$c5l$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8C2521.10B2D6D8@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a6ha1e$opu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a6hjmu$khf$0@216.39.172.122>

On 11 Mar 2002 03:58:38 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:31:45 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>>Bengt Richter wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would someone explain this:
>>> 
>>>  >>> eval("list(r'\x07')")
>>>  ['\x07']
>>>  >>> list(r'\x07')
>>>  ['\\', 'x', '0', '7']
>>
>>The string literal you're passing to eval is
>>non-raw, so the \x07 gets interpreted before
>>eval even sees it. Try this instead:
>>
>>   >>> eval(r"list(r'\x07')")
>>
>Aaugh, touch? & d'oh. That's embarrassing  ;-/
>
Especially since the original motivation was:
+---
|So how would '\x07' (single character)  be represented if it were part of pasted text?
|
|I guess I ought to try eval("r'\x07'") and see what happens ;-)
+---

I.e., I was _intending_ to get \x07 interpreted, to simulate pasting a single control
character into a raw string. In another post I just did it directly:

+---
| >>> '^G','\x07',r'^G'
| ('\x07', '\x07', '\x07')
|
|... where I typed Ctrl-G binary data into the source where the screen rendered ^G.
+---

I just fooled myself looking at all those list results ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar  3 15:53:12 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 03 Mar 2002 21:53:12 +0100
Subject: C++, Python & Threads
References: <1015181073.276455@seux119>
Message-ID: <m3elj1weyv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"VUG" <plugin at airtel.net> writes:

> When I launch python console and I create a thread I get a NUMBER but......
> This number doesn't the same as the one I get by the function
> thread.get_ident(). What's wrong in the code?

PyThread_get_thread_ident, having no parameters, always returns the
thread id of the calling thread. If you want the thread id of the new
thread, you need to invoke PyThread_get_thread_ident inside of the new
thread.

BTW, in Python 2.2, start_new_thread does return the thread id of the
new thread.

HTH,
Martin



From clpy at snakefarm.org  Mon Mar 18 05:02:17 2002
From: clpy at snakefarm.org (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:02:17 +0100
Subject: locale module broken?
References: <3C928042.BA50A5B3@snakefarm.org> <m3r8mls78p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1016239827.26235.python-list@python.org> <j47kob6qq7.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C95BB29.41317483@snakefarm.org>

Martin von Loewis wrote:
> 
> Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes:
> 
> >    I reproduced this behviour on Debian 2.2 with all version of Python -
> > 2.0, 2.1 amd 2.2... but only with FR locale. With ru_RU locale it works
> > perfectly. It seems glibc has got broken FR locale.
> 
> That must have been fixed in more recent versions of glibc then; on
> Debian-testing, it works fine.

On the other hand, the most recent versions of glibc (2.2.{4|5}) have a
(known) bug in the handling of IPv6. Since I need a working IPv6
implementation more than a working French locale I'll stick to glibc
2.1.3. :-)

cg.
-- 
For dealing with Matrix you need something more powerful than Python.
Otherwise ... Matrix has you!         -- scenes from comp.lang.python


From ffjhenon at club-internet.fr  Sat Mar 16 06:30:05 2002
From: ffjhenon at club-internet.fr (Fabien =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E9non?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:30:05 +0100
Subject: Linux endline
References: <3C932C41.2974C1DA@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <3C932CBD.6493FB6C@club-internet.fr>

Here is the complete application


from Tkinter import *
from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename, asksaveasfilename
import sys, os, string

plat=sys.platform

class mainWin:
  def __init__(self,tkRoot):
    self.tkRoot=tkRoot
    self.createWidgets()
    return None


class App:

## ---------------------- Create GUI ----------------------

    def __init__(self, master):



## ---------------------- Mainframe ----------------------

        mframe = Frame(master)
        mframe.pack(expand=1, fill=BOTH)
 frame_input=Frame(mframe)


## ---------------------- Menu ----------------------

        menubar=Menu(frame_input)
        filemenu=Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)
        filemenu.add_command(label="New",command=self.clr)
        filemenu.add_command(label="Open",command=self.enter_text)
        filemenu.add_command(label="Save",command=self.save)
        filemenu.add_command(label="Save As")
        filemenu.add_separator()
        filemenu.add_command(label="Quit",command=sys.exit)
        menubar.add_cascade(label="File",menu=filemenu)

        editmenu=Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)
        editmenu.add_command(label="Cut")
        editmenu.add_command(label="Copy")
        editmenu.add_command(label="Paste")
        menubar.add_cascade(label="Edit",menu=editmenu)

        rendermenu=Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)
        rendermenu.add_command(label="Render", command=self.render)
        menubar.add_cascade(label="Render",menu=rendermenu)

        root.config(menu=menubar)

## ---------------------- Buttons ----------------------

 frame_buttons=Frame(mframe)
 self.button_open = Button(frame_buttons, text="Open..", fg="blue",
command=self.enter_text)
 self.button_open.pack(side=LEFT)
 self.button_render = Button(frame_buttons, text="Render..", fg="red",
command=self.render)
 self.button_render.pack(side=LEFT)
 self.button_render = Button(frame_buttons, text="Command line..",
fg="blue", command=self.parameters_)
 self.button_render.pack(side=LEFT)
        frame_buttons.pack(expand=0, fill=BOTH)



## ---------------------- Editor ----------------------

        self.text = Text(frame_input)

        self.yscroll_i = Scrollbar(frame_input,orient=VERTICAL,
command=self.text.yview)
 self.yscroll_i.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
 self.text['yscrollcommand']=self.yscroll_i.set

 self.text.pack(side=LEFT,expand=1, fill=BOTH)
 self.text.bind("<KeyPress>", self.keyPress)
        self.yscroll_i.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
        frame_input.pack(expand=1, fill=BOTH)



## ---------------------- Output ----------------------

 frame_output=Frame(mframe)
        self.text_out = Text(frame_output,state=DISABLED,height=6)
        self.text_out.pack(side=LEFT,expand=1, fill=BOTH)
        self.scroll = Scrollbar(frame_output, command=self.text_out.yview)

        self.text_out.configure(yscrollcommand=self.scroll.set)
        self.scroll.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
        frame_output.pack(expand=0, fill=BOTH)


## ---------------------- Status Bar ----------------------


 frame_status_bar=Frame(mframe)
        self.status = Label(frame_status_bar, bd=1, relief=SUNKEN,
textvariable=affi_Ligne)
        self.status.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=NONE, expand=0,anchor=E)
        frame_status_bar.pack(expand=0, fill=NONE)


## ---------------------- Open file ----------------------

    def enter_text(self):
        if plat=="win32":
          l=1
          self.filename = askopenfilename()
          if self.filename:
    self.text.delete(1.0, END)
  fd = open(self.filename)
   for line in fd.readlines():
  l=l+1
  self.text.insert(END, line)
   fd.close()
        elif plat=="linux-i386":
          l=1
          self.filename = askopenfilename()
          if self.filename:
    self.text.delete(1.0, END)
  fd = open(self.filename)
   for line in fd.readlines():
  l=l+1
  self.text.insert(END, line) # self.text.insert(END, line[:-1])
   fd.close()



## ---------------------- Clear ----------------------

    def clr(self):
        self.text.delete(1.0, END)



## ---------------------- Saveas ----------------------

    def save(self, forPrt=None):
        script = self.text.get(1.0, END)
        if script:
            if forPrt:
                file = 'prt.tmp'
            else:
                self.filename = file = asksaveasfilename(initialfile= \
                                                         self.filename)
            fd = open(self.file, 'w')
            for line in string.split(script, '\n'):
                fd.write(line)
                fd.write('\n')
            fd.close



## ---------------------- Render ----------------------

    def render(self):
  os.system("povray +i/home/f/povray35/scenes/advanced/chess2.pov +w320
+h240 -f +dgt")



## ---------------------- Top-Level Command line ----------------------

    def parameters_(self):
      self.tl=Toplevel()
      self.lb=Label(self.tl, text="Render parameters:")
      self.cl=Entry(self.tl,width=40)
      self.ok=Button(self.tl, text="OK", fg="red",
command=self.get_parameters)
      self.ok.pack(side=BOTTOM)
      self.cl.pack(side=RIGHT)
      self.lb.pack()

    def get_parameters(self):
      params=self.cl.get()
      print params


## ---------------------- Prints the current line number and contents
----------------------

##  Line number

    def lin(self):
        tindex = self.text.index(INSERT)
        Ligne, column = map(int, string.split(tindex, "."))
        valeur="Line : %d"  %int((Ligne))
        affi_Ligne.set(valeur)



## ---------------------- Called when a key is pressed
----------------------

    def keyPress(self,event):
        self.lin()





root = Tk()
affi_Ligne=StringVar()
#params=StringVar()
larg = root.winfo_screenwidth()
haut = root.winfo_screenheight()
root.maxsize()
# root.geometry("%dx%d+0+0" % (larg,haut))
app = App(root)
root.mainloop()



Fabien H?non a ?crit :

> I am writing a POV-RAY editor which can be used with Windows or Linux.
>
> 1? When I use it under Linux I would like to get rid of the \r which
> appears at the end of each line. ( I know there is a difference of
> endline between Windows, Mac and Linux).
>
> I added a slice, but it doesn't seem to work.
> I tried to use
>   self.text.insert(END, line[:-1])
> But it does not help
> In short how do I get rid of endline in *nix
>
> ----
> def enter_text(self):
>         if plat=="win32":
>           l=1
>           self.filename = askopenfilename()
>           if self.filename:
>     self.text.delete(1.0, END)
>   fd = open(self.filename)
>    for line in fd.readlines():
>   l=l+1
>   self.text.insert(END, line)
>    fd.close()
>         elif plat=="linux-i386":
>           l=1
>           self.filename = askopenfilename()
>           if self.filename:
>     self.text.delete(1.0, END)
>   fd = open(self.filename)
>    for line in fd.readlines():
>   l=l+1
>   self.text.insert(END, line) # self.text.insert(END, line[:-1])
>    fd.close()
> -----------
>
> 2? One more thing, I'd like to add syntax highlighting with braces,
> parentheses,.... matching.
> I'd like to know it is feasible to implement it.
>
> 3? Is there a way to fire up an external application (like POV or a
> modeler) in background or as a sub-thread :
> When I start POV from within the application, I have to wait for the
> raytracing to be over to use the editor again.
>
> I use
>   os.system("application_to_run")
>
> Thanks for any help



From taw at dnaco.net  Mon Mar  4 19:33:05 2002
From: taw at dnaco.net (Tim Widowfield)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:33:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: pyperl -- Arrays to Lists? ...Tuples?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSU.4.10.10203021638290.5687-100000@picard.dnaco.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.10.10203041923440.5687-100000@picard.dnaco.net>

I hope it's not impolite to answer one's own question.  I got around the
tuple problem by forgoing the PerlModule construct and using Perl more
directly.  Once you've said 'import perl', 'perl.require("MyMOD")', and
then somthing like:

  obj_handle = perl.callm("new", "MyMOD", params)

...you can finally say:

  thingy = perl.callm_tuple("method", obj_handle, param1, param2, ...)

...and your thingy will definitely come back as a tuple.


--Tim Widowfield, 
  taw at dnaco.net


On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Tim Widowfield wrote:

> Greetings:
> 
> I hope I'm not missing something obvious, but here goes.  I'm calling a
> Perl module from a Python script with the aid of pyperl.  Pretty much
> everything works as expected, but functions with array return values keep
> giving me strings in Python.  In particular, the string is the last value
> in the returned array.
> 
> I've tried wrapping the function call with "tuple" and "list", but that
> only causes the string to break itself up into individual letters.  How
> can I force pyperl to understand I'm expecting an array of values and not
> just a single string?  Has anyone seen this before?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> --Tim Widowfield, 
>   taw at dnaco.net
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Mar 13 15:22:47 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:22:47 -0800
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <u4rjks537.fsf@python.net>; from mwh@python.net on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 06:16:11PM +0000
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6nnsg$chc$1@panix1.panix.com> <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1016040504.2814.python-list@python.org> <u4rjks537.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <20020313122247.A15069@ActiveState.com>

[Michael Hudson wrote]
> Perhaps.  I'm a bit scared of bugzilla (on the admin side).

Touche. I don't have to deal with that here. We use bugzilla for (almost) all
of our bug tracking here at ActiveState.


> > p.s. I am gonna regret feeding this.
> 
> Huh?

I suspected that this might turn into one long fruitless discussion over what
would be a good bug tracking app for Python. Fruitless because I don't see
Python moving away from SF's tracker any time soon.


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From dubois at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Mar 22 14:30:50 2002
From: dubois at users.sourceforge.net (Paul F. Dubois)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:30:50 GMT
Subject: Porting a Python app to IRIX -- need help
Message-ID: <KDLm8.103638$uA5.85596@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

I am trying to get a Python-based app running on an SGI running IRIX 6.5. I
am running into a problem involving some objects being compiled "n32" and
others "o32". The linker refuses to link them.

I got pretty far by setting environment variable CC to "cc" but then it
complained that the X11 library is o32. Can an SGI person tell me whether
o32 or n32 is "normal" and what I tell the compiler to be sure I get that?





From edream at tds.net  Sat Mar  9 13:02:26 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:02:26 GMT
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net> <tsri8.24015$n4.4647816@newsc.telia.net> <3C8A4810.85A56A1@tds.net> <h_ri8.24022$n4.4649892@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3C8A4E30.3666F1F1@tds.net>

> (after all, you also said "These will be my last words on this
> subject" in an earlier post... ;-)

OK.  I lied :-)  If you think a logger is a good idea, go for it.  I'll
happily abide by the will of the community.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From zihong at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 11:36:16 2002
From: zihong at earthlink.net (Zihong Lu)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:36:16 GMT
Subject: win32 extension: rare PythonService problem
References: <rrui8.2150$P4.203427@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns91CD6455D4DCCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214> <a6gkop$r0i$0@216.39.172.122> <a6grvo$h4o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <425j8.12275$Vx1.979312@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I  also thought it might be due to the permission problem.  But when I
checked the mahine's registry entries, and the user's access authorities,
they seem to be fine.  The user has system administrator auth to the
machine, and the installation did write to the registry as expected.

Correct, the event log logged a error for the service when I tried to start.
No more meaningful information except saying return 1.


-Zihong
"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:a6grvo$h4o$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On 10 Mar 2002 21:55:37 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> [...]
> >But I'd check the event logs (run "%SystemRoot%"\system32\eventvwr.exe)
first
>
> Oops, misplaced quote, that won't work verbatim. Try
>
>     "%SystemRoot%\system32\eventvwr.exe"
>
> Or (at least on NT4), find it via start>programs>adminstrative tools>Event
viewer
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 17 14:46:57 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 20:46:57 +0100
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <mailman.1016216529.29034.python-list@python.org> <m3vgbxs7e2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <j9699ucaj1rec9v1abg0geskbovu5jdtj3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m31yej7z9q.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Wolfgang Strobl <ws at mystrobl.de> writes:

> >This is rather unlikely, I doubt the interactive interpreter will ever
> >be able to properly identify the encoding of the console window. 
> 
> What's wrong with GetConsoleOutputCP, besides the restrictions
> documented in "Q99795 SetConsoleOutputCP Only Effective with Unicode
> Fonts"? 

There are several problems with that:
- as you point it, it fails for the raster fonts (for no apparent
  reason)
- for outputting Unicode, OutputConsoleW is more appropriate, IMO,
  since it can also output characters not supported in the output
  code page.
- we were talking about input. Admittedly, GetConsoleCP might be of
  use here
- it is tricky to determine reliably that a file descriptor is
  connected to a terminal.

Regards,
Martin


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Mar 13 21:00:37 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:00:37 -0800
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <200203140116.BAA01141@crown.off.ekorp.com>; from rjones@ekit-inc.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 12:16:16PM +1100
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com> <20020313154713.A30850@ActiveState.com> <200203140116.BAA01141@crown.off.ekorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020313180037.D25807@ActiveState.com>

[Richard Jones wrote]
> > Can you attach files to issues/bugs
> > in the new Roundup?
> 
> Yep - via the web or email interfaces.

Cool. Sorry for the FUD. I'll try to check it out.

Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From Janssen at rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Mar  2 12:47:10 2002
From: Janssen at rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:47:10 +0100
Subject: Stedents Question
References: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <3c811073@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Tony K wrote:

> The question below is a tutorial question that stumps me.  Any suggestions
> would be appreciated.
> Tony
> 
> Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as parameter
> and returns all substrings thereof which match the regexp pattern ab+c.
> You are NOT allowed to use the re module.

def findABBC(str):
    a=0 
    b=0
    while str:
        for n in str:
            if n=="a":
                a=1
                break
            if  a==1 and n=="b":
                b=b+1
                break
            if a==1 and n=="c":
                print "a"+"b"*b+"c"
                a, b = 0, 0
                break
            if n!=[a-c]:
                a, b = 0, 0
                break
        str=str[1:]

produces every ab+c-string in str. But there must be something easier. 
Something smaller ;-)

Michael


From gerritvd at decillion.net  Tue Mar 26 04:37:36 2002
From: gerritvd at decillion.net (Gerrit van Dyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:37:36 +0200
Subject: win32com makepy problem
Message-ID: <3CA04160.7080406@decillion.net>

Hi all,

I have the following problem using the office 9.0 object library. When I 
generate the Office 9.0 Object library using makepy the following code 
does not work, but when I use the dynamic dispatch method it does. How 
do I solve the problem using the early bound dispatch method as I need 
early binding for other features (constants etc)?

This method is defined in my server class and the self.application 
attribute points to a valid Excel.Application instance

1:def AddCustomMenu(self):
2: 
cbMenuBar = self.application.CommandBars("Worksheet Menu Bar")
3: 
muCustom = cbMenuBar.Controls.Add(Type = 10) # msoControlPopup
4:
5: 
muCustom.Caption = "Toolkit"
6:
7: 
item = muCustom.Controls.Add(Type = 1) # msoControlButton
8: 
item.Caption = "Show Data Form"


The problem is on line 7. muCustom is of type CommandBarControl in the 
early binding case. In the late(dynamic) binding case it is a 
CommandBarPopup. CommandBarControl does not have a Controls property 
where CommandBarPopup does.

How can i rectify the problem? (typecast ?) How?

Regards
Gerrit van Dyk



From jbauer at rubic.com  Mon Mar 11 17:42:35 2002
From: jbauer at rubic.com (Jeff Bauer)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:42:35 -0600
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
Message-ID: <3C8D32DB.A3E0D7FC@rubic.com>

NormalDate 1.2 is available from:

http://starship.python.net/crew/jbauer/normaldate/

  NormalDate is a specialized class to handle dates without
  all the excess baggage (time zones, daylight savings, leap
  seconds, etc.) of other date structures.  The minimalist
  strategy greatly simplifies its implementation and use.

NormalDate is a pure Python class and is therefore
portable to Jython, Windows CE devices, etc.  It has
been in use in one form or another by many users, 
judging from email, since 1997.

The 1.2 release includes an important bugfix for Python 2.2.

Jeff Bauer
Rubicon Research



From scott.l.hathaway at lmco.com  Fri Mar 22 08:39:06 2002
From: scott.l.hathaway at lmco.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:39:06 -0600
Subject: a website information gathering script
Message-ID: <3C9B33FA.3D853D65@lmco.com>

I have a simple python script which gathers information about a website
and produces an html report about what it finds.  The way it works is
very clunky and I would appreciate some feedback and help improving it.

http://www.hcsprogramming.com/downloads/index.html

Thanks,
Scott Hathaway



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 18 11:08:55 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 17:08:55 +0100
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <1016327182.366474@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <m3n0x7po0e.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3b091a1c.0203180642.69cc22b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3sn6xg8o8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl) writes:

> HP-UX 10.20 has user threads, HP-UX 11 has kernel threads (a POSIX threads 
> implementation by HP) -  and AFAIK HP-UX 10.30 has it.
> HP-UX 10.20 has located s subset of pthread call's in libcma - not enough
> for Python2.2. But I can remember, that prior python versions (2.0, 1.5.2 ??)
> could configured with threads. I can't test it anymore, because I have only
> access to HP-UX 11.00 at the moment.
> Another problem is, that the dynamic loader is not thread-safe in 10.20
> (but it is in 10.30 and above) - see 'HP-UX Linker and Libraries Users's Guide'
> 
> But in principle HP-UX 10.20 supports threads (user threads or green threads)
> and it is used i.e. with Java for HP-UX.

Different people report different results. Python still has the
machinery to link with -lcma, and for some people, it reportedly
figured that out correctly. For some people, the 2.2 configure
apparently fails because it picked up the wrong preprocessor - I don't
know why that would happen.

Some people see crashes (in the testsuite) due to unexpected
signals. I believe that these originate from the fact that the
user-level thread library uses signals in certain cases, and this may
interfere with signal handlers that the signal test installed.

Of course, this is pure guesswork.

Regards,
Martin


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar 13 23:51:22 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:51:22 +1100
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A20A@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Sheila King [mailto:usenet at thinkspot.net]
> 
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:09 +1100, "Delaney, Timothy" 
> <tdelaney at avaya.com>
> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <mailman.1016078842.13805.python-list at python.org>:
> 
> > Bah ...
> > 
> > results = filter(lambda k: not c.has_key(k), b)
> > 
> > That will slow it down a bit (using the lambda) but will 
> give the right
> > result ;)
> 
> How does something with list comprehensions compare? Like:
> 
> b = [entry for entry in b if entry not in a]
> 
> Is this as slow as the original method suggested? Or is it closer to
> dictionary performance?

Essentially, that is identical to the original method. Simply expand it out
... (need to use a temporary name though).

temp_b = []

for entry in b:
    if entry not in a:
        temp_b.append(entry)

b = temp_b
del temp_b

Tim Delaney



From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Tue Mar 19 04:15:11 2002
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:15:11 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <3C96F705.50908@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <m3g02whqao.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

| > For me on my windows 2000 machine, to get them into UTF-8 format I do
| > something like:
| > for filename in os.listdir():
| >         utffilename=unicode(filename, "latin-1").encode("utf-8")
| 
|           utffilename=unicode(filename, "mbcs").encode("utf-8")

Hello!

So do I get it right now, reading it as mbcs ("Multibyte-character")
will read all ntfs filenames correctly (as unicode defines it) into a
unicode string?

| > p.s.2 what is the status on win9x? Give it up or ;-)
| 
| I *think* it still works when accessing a Unicode aware file system
| (ie, network)

What I want is to read a local file-name on a win9x fat/fat32 disk and
be able to convert it into unicode.. And the other way around.

I will probably add a if windows9x do that, else if win2k do
this.. ;-) Hmm how do I determine windows-version?

        /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From neal at metaslash.com  Mon Mar 18 18:08:16 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:08:16 -0500
Subject: Declare list of large size
References: <sn4rjdsdhd.fsf@motorola.com>
Message-ID: <3C967360.C128670A@metaslash.com>

Aaron Ginn wrote:
> 
> Perhaps I've just glossed over this in the documentation, but what is
> the simplest way to declare a list of large size?  Is there something
> analogous to the following in C:
> 
> int list[100];
> 
> I can do this by doing the following:
> 
> list = []
> i=0
> while i < 100:
>    list.append[0]
>    i = i + 1
> 
> which will give me a list 100 elements long with all values
> initialized to 0, but I'm assuming there has to be an easier way to do
> this?  Am I correct in this assumption?

Yes:

>>> [0]* 100
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
>>> 

Neal


From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 20 07:06:18 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:06:18 +0000
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20020320120618.GC18197@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 03:45:09AM -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> > <ul tal:define="sequence python:container.mydb.selectbyname(name='peter')">
> >   <li tal:repeat="item sequence">
> >     <span tal:replace="item/surname">surname</span>
> >   </li>
> > </ul>

> Geez, I find all this pseudo-HTML horrendous.  Why not just embed

It's not pseudo-HTML, it's W3C compliant HTML (is "<?", btw?).

IMHO it's also better looking than <? ?> tags.

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From chad.maine at broadlink.com  Fri Mar  1 18:06:07 2002
From: chad.maine at broadlink.com (Chad Maine)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:06:07 GMT
Subject: Multple HTTPS requests over the same socket
Message-ID: <zPTf8.1226$en5.8772@typhoon.sonic.net>

I have class that opens an SSL socket to an HTTPS server in it's __init__.
I then call a class method to send the headers and make the request ( a
'POST') and return the results.  If I try to use that same SSL socket again
for another request, I get nothing.  Is what I'm trying to possible or do I
need to close the socket and open another?




From jjv5 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 15:33:36 2002
From: jjv5 at yahoo.com (jjv5)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 12:33:36 -0800
Subject: How to count pixels of a color in an image?
Message-ID: <6b7cc392.0203191233.26760fc2@posting.google.com>

A simple question perhaps. Any help is appreciated.
I need to count the number of pixels that are purple or blue-green in
a large image. I can do this with the Image module easily enough,
but it is painfully slow.  I do something like this:

green=0
purple=0
dat = im.getdata()
for i in range(len(dat)):
     r,g,b = dat[i][0],dat[i][1],dat[i][2]
     green = green + (( b>r) and (g>r))
     purple = purple + ((r>g) and (b>g))

The slow part is the for loop over the image data. Even if the loop
body is empty it still takes about 15 seconds on a fast computer. the
getdata function takes about 3 seconds. Surely there is a better way.
The image
is about 3800 by 3000 pixels. Any suggestions?


Jim


From mwh at python.net  Sun Mar  3 11:53:50 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:53:50 GMT
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <uit8dvbbm.fsf@python.net>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:

> I tried to use the shutil module... and to tell you the truth, it
> stinks.

Yep.

> Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that has
> the equivalent of the unix shell utilities?

Not that I know of.  distutils.file_utils does a better job of some
things.

Writing "shutil2.py" has been on my todo list for months, at least.
It would be nice to make it as portable as possible.

> I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...

That's going waaay beyond what I had in mind.

> Here is my wish list. Each of these should implement a significant portion 
> of what the GNU utils do. They should be robust, and give reasonable 
> results, and reasonable exceptions.
> 
> touch, chmod, chown, chgrp, touch

These are in os, or easy to fake.

> df, du

I'm not sure these are really worth the effort.  Implementable in
python using os functions.

> cp, dd, install, mv, rm, shred

Now this is what I was talking about.

> If there isn't an effort to make this, or if no one has done
> anything like this yet, I am willing to volunteer some time to do
> it.

That would be good.  My time is pretty much all volunteered.

> It would be really nice if they ended up being compatible with
> Windows and Macintosh - give them some powerful tools they didn't
> even know existed!

The one philosophy I'd managed to come up with was "ask the OS to do
as much as possible".

I think a good first step would be to post an interface sketch.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Remember - if all you have is an axe, every problem looks 
  like hours of fun.                                        -- Frossie
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sat Mar 30 16:23:54 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:23:54 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl>

Guido,

you wrote:
> 
> I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
> a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.
> 

Thanks for this opportunity.

>     http://python.org/sf/528022
> 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
> 
> PEP: 285
> Title: Adding a bool type
> Version: $Revision: 1.12 $
> Last-Modified: $Date: 2002/03/30 05:37:02 $
> Author: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
> Status: Draft
> Type: Standards Track
> Created: 8-Mar-2002
> Python-Version: 2.3
> Post-History: 8-Mar-2002, 30-Mar-2002
> 
> Abstract
> 
>     This PEP proposes the introduction of a new built-in type, bool,
>     with two constants, False and True.  The bool type would be a
>     straightforward subtype (in C) of the int type, and the values
>     False and True would behave like 0 and 1 in most respects (for
>     example, False==0 and True==1 would be true) except repr() and
>     str().  All built-in operations that conceptually return a Boolean
>     result will be changed to return False or True instead of 0 or 1;
>     for example, comparisons, the "not" operator, and predicates like
>     isinstance().
> 
> Review
> 
>     Dear reviewers:
> 
>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
> 
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

Partially.


I think there is no point in maintaining backward compatibility
of the assumptions that True == 1 and False == 0.
Please don't subtype int to define bool.

Within the language a 'cast to boolean' should be implied when a boolean
value is expected (ie. after 'if' and 'while'). This is in line with 
the current situation. Making this cast to boolean explicit in the language
definition even simplifies the language definition.

> 
>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)
> 

str(True) should return "True".

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).
> 

Caps.

>     Most other details of the proposal are pretty much forced by the
>     backwards compatibility requirement; e.g. True == 1 and
>     True+1 == 2 must hold, else reams of existing code would break.
> 

This can be handled by deprecation and eg. 'from __future__ import bool',
or by unundeprecation: 'from __past__ import nonbool'.

This might seem rather radical, but in C a similar thing has happened:
the compiler would silently cast a C int to a C pointer in earlier
versions of the language. Nowadays no C programmer would even dare
to think that way.

>     Minor additional issues:
> 
>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>        me.
> 

28+isleap(y) might seem reasonable now, but one should hope/assume that
Python outlives C at which point it will/would be just ballast.

Some other arguments against 28+isleap(y):
- explicit 28+int(isleap(y)) is better than implicit.
- here isleap should have been called onewhenleap in the first place.
- a current boolean function might return eg. a non empty list or an Ellipsis
  to indicate a True return value, resulting in an appropriate TypeError here.

A bool is a bool and an int is an int.
The only relation between them is that they have to be implemented using
bits of a computer.
Python is sufficiently high level not to care about the bits.
Python never had a C float type, only a C double type, for precisily
this reason.

Somehow this reminds me of subclassing Square from Rectangle:
it just doesn't feel right, even though it might work.
One should avoid subclassing a class that has instantiations.
Could someone provide a reference for this with a title
that ends in 'considered harmful'?


>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.
> 

Predicates should return a bool.

> Rationale
> 
>     Most languages eventually grow a Boolean type; even C99 (the new
>     and improved C standard, not yet widely adopted) has one.
> 
>     Many programmers apparently feel the need for a Boolean type; most
>     Python documentation contains a bit of an apology for the absence
>     of a Boolean type.  I've seen lots of modules that defined
>     constants "False=0" and "True=1" (or similar) at the top and used
>     those.  The problem with this is that everybody does it
>     differently.  For example, should you use "FALSE", "false",
>     "False", "F" or even "f"?  And should false be the value zero or
>     None, or perhaps a truth value of a different type that will print
>     as "true" or "false"?  Adding a standard bool type to the language
>     resolves those issues.
> 
>     Some external libraries (like databases and RPC packages) need to
>     be able to distinguish between Boolean and integral values, and
>     while it's usually possible to craft a solution, it would be
>     easier if the language offered a standard Boolean type.
> 

That would be nice. Currently in jython one has to use java.lang.Bool
to call an overloaded java method that is defined with both a java boolean
and with a java int as argument. This does not happen too often,
but mapping a python bool to (and from) a java bool sure sounds good.

>     The standard bool type can also serve as a way to force a value to
>     be interpreted as a Boolean, which can be used to normalize
>     Boolean values.  Writing bool(x) is much clearer than "not not x"
>     and much more concise than
> 
>         if x:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return 0
> 
That would be great, however such functions should not be named as predicates,
they should be named onewhen...

<snip>

> 
> Compatibility
> 
>     Because of backwards compatibility, the bool type lacks many
>     properties that some would like to see.  For example, arithmetic
>     operations with one or two bool arguments is allowed, treating
>     False as 0 and True as 1.  Also, a bool may be used as a sequence
>     index.
> 

The only reason that it works now is the C heritage as explained above.
Why not use this as an opportunity to get rid of it?

With a non int bool, True and False would be real singletons:

bool(1) is True
bool(0) is False

True is not 1
True != 1
False is not 0
False != 0


Subclassing bool from int would also force 1 and 0 to be become
real singletons. The only reason this would work is that current
python implementations happen to implement 1 and 0 in this way.
This is related to subclassing an instantiated class, which should
be avoided, I think.

>     I don't see this as a problem, and I don't want evolve the
>     language in this direction either; I don't believe that a stricter
>     interpretation of "Booleanness" makes the language any clearer.

But you could make the language definition simpler by
explicitly defining the cast to bool in contexts where a boolean is expected,
see above. This would allow the current casts (eg. list to bool as non empty)
to be described at the standard types instead of in the language definition.

>     Another consequence of the compatibility requirement is that the
>     expression "True and 6" has the value 6, and similarly the
>     expression "False or None" has the value None.  The "and" and "or"
>     operators are usefully defined to return the first argument that
>     determines the outcome, and this won't change; in particular, they
>     don't force the outcome to be a bool.  Of course, if both
>     arguments are bools, the outcome is always a bool.  It can also
>     easily be coerced into being a bool by writing for example
>     "bool(x and y)".

These would work in the same way with a "non int" bool as I would prefer to have.

<snip>

Regards, and thanks again for the opportunity,

Ype.


From cfox at crystalcherry.com  Fri Mar 15 21:24:39 2002
From: cfox at crystalcherry.com (Colin Fox)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 02:24:39 GMT
Subject: Zope Question
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.15.18.24.35.492395.26562@crystalcherry.com>

Hi, everyone.

I realize that this isn't the best place to post Zope questions, but hey,
it's written in python...:)

Anyway, I'm trying to create a form for editing database entries. Part of
the form includes a pair of radio buttons for gender. I want to seed this
from with values from the database.

The problem is, radio buttons have a special attribute called 'checked'
to indicate when they are selected. The Zope page templates allow me to
alter things of the form ' value="xxx" ', but apparently not where the
keyword itself is the value. If there was something like
'state="CHECKED"', it would be easy. But I can't figure out how to insert
either CHECKED or nothing depending on the state of a variable.

And unfortunately, none of the example templates I've seen show how to do
this.

Any ideas?

TIA

-- 
Colin Fox                                       cfox at crystalcherry.com
CF Consulting Inc.                                    GPG Fingerprint:
                    D8F0 84E7 E7CC 5C6C 9982  F1A7 A3EB 6EA3 BC97 572F


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Mar  9 10:43:19 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 07:43:19 -0800
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net>
Message-ID: <a6dain$27o$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B at tds.net>, Edward K. Ream <edream at tds.net> wrote:
>
>PEP 282 talks about control flow, levels, loggers, handlers, formatters,
>filters and configuration.  A case can be made for dealing with each
>issue, and experience shows that simple dynamic tracing suffices in
>complex apps like compilers and file systems.  For example, all kinds of
>configuration (including picking formatters, data sinks, altering the
>flow of control of the program being run, etc.) can be done just by
>initializing the dict of tracepoint names.
>
>Dynamic tracing provides the essential benefit of any logging system,
>namely the ability to alter tracing output without altering the program
>being traced.  It does so in the simplest and most general way.

The problem that your solution fails to solve is the need for three
basic levels of output: debug, warn/info, error.  A single function may
want to provide all three levels, but users of that function may not
want to see all three all the time.  They will almost certainly want
error traces to be active almost all the time.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Thu Mar 28 08:24:00 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 13:24:00 GMT
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <a7tbd4$qc7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91DF557D7EEDCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>

jimh wrote:

> Here is the problem: Most of these 50 classes need to use the
> MessageCatalog themselves.  This means, of course, that classA imports
> MessageCatalog which imports classA.  This doesn't work very well.

As long as MessageCatalog uses a plain "import ...", this
should work fine. The import that completes the circuit
can't use "from ... import ...", because symbols inside
the module aren't available until all the imports complete.

You can often use delayed imports (imports inside function
or method bodies) to break the circularity, too.

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/


From psage at ncaustin.com  Tue Mar 26 17:29:12 2002
From: psage at ncaustin.com (Paul Sage)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:29:12 -0600
Subject: TKinter question - A combo box / menu question
Message-ID: <03F53405C6ED434A986221919785A6A7106BE9@nca-postal.ncaustin.com>

First, let me apologize for sending this in HTML the first time.  I have
had a few responses on this, but nothing turns up.   Basically, I want
to pop-up a ComboDialogBox as a result of a Menu selection.  What I am
doing is creating the ComboDialogBox everytime it gets to the "command"
portion of the Menu option.  
 
Here is most of the relevant code:
 
class mainWindow:
  #Build the components into the main window
  def __init__(self, master):
    # Begin creation of the main menu items here.
    # File section.
    mbar = Menu(master, tearoff=0)
    master['menu'] = mbar
    frameForDialog = frame(master, N)
    file_menu = Menu(mbar, tearoff=0)
    file_menu.add_command(label='Load Form',
command=self.open_file(frameForDialog))
    file_menu.add_command(label='Save Form', command=self.save_file)
    file_menu.add_command(label='New Form', command=self.new_file)
    file_menu.add_separator()
    file_menu.add_command(label='Quit', command=self.quit_file)
    mbar.add_cascade(label='File', underline=0, menu=file_menu)
    # End top pull down menu selections.
    
    statEditorFrame = frame(master, N)
    statEditor = StatEditor(statEditorFrame)
    
  def open_file(self, parent):
      #Need the listofcharacters to be a tuple sequence.
      from char_edit_combo_load import *
      forms = []
      listOfCharacters = tuple(getFiles(forms))
      dialog = Pmw.ComboBoxDialog(parent, title = "Character Load",
                                  buttons = ('OK', 'Cancel'),
defaultbutton = 'OK',
                                  combobox_labelpos=N,
label_text="Please select a character",
                                  scrolledlist_items=listOfCharacters,
listbox_width=22)
      dialog.withdraw()
      result=dialog.activate()
      # The function has now opened seen the selection, time to open the
file.
      if result == 'OK':
        return(readObjectFromFile(dialog.get()))
      else:
        return(None)
 
  def save_file(self):
    #This will save the file off
    print('SF: Stub')
 
  def quit_file(self):
    #This will save the file off
    print('SF: Stub')
 
  def new_file(self):
    #This will save the file off
    print('NF: Stub')
 
  def add_level(self):
    #This will save the file off
    print('SF: Stub')
 
  def subtract_level(self):
    #This will save the file off
    print('NF: Stub')
 
root=Tk()
root.title('Character Generator')
Pmw.initialise()
topWindow = mainWindow(root)
root.mainloop()
-------------- next part --------------
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From ljohnson at resgen.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:08 2002
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:34:08 -0600
Subject: SWIG and python
References: <6bd9f01b.0203131336.24c93fa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u8vkiboi1kdr25@corp.supernews.com>

> I've downloaded SWIG1.3.11, and 1.3.10 for linux from sourceforge, and
> after installation, swig -version tells me that I am running SWIG1.1.
> Are the version #s just not updated or what?

Yes, the version numbers have been updated. You obviously still have an
older SWIG executable somewhere in your path (ahead of the SWIG 1.3.x
executable). Try typing "which swig" to see which one you're actually
running and then blow that copy away, or rename it, whatever.




From uwe at rocksport.de  Sun Mar 24 13:45:12 2002
From: uwe at rocksport.de (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 18:45:12 GMT
Subject: advanced Python
References: <3C9E6058.8D3EFE6F@gol.ge>
Message-ID: <a7l6ro$7s5pq$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Giorgi Lekishvili <gleki at gol.ge> wrote:
| Hello!

| I wonder if someone prompts me a book dedicated to the advanced topics
| of python?

| Something tailored a-la "Advanced C++" by James O. Coplien...

What about "Python Programming Patterns" by Christopher...

Greetings, Uwe.


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 19:26:55 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:26:55 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015456213.19181.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-3317AA.16265506032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015456213.19181.python-list at python.org>,
 "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:

> >     PEP 276 [4] proposes to allow automatic conversion of integers to
> >     iterators, simplifying the most common half-open case but not
> >     addressing the complexities of other types of interval.
> >     Additional alternatives have been discussed on python-list.
> 
> This is incorrect. PEP 276 proposes to make integers iterable. There is a
> significant difference, which I have noticed you either not understanding or
> ignoring.
> 
> I would suggest an amendment to PEP 284 to correct this.

When you say "incorrect", do you mean that "making integers iterable" is 
different from "allowing automatic conversion of integers to iterators"?
It was my understanding that "for x in y" and "if x in y" converted y to 
an iterator automatically, by calling iter(y) if necessary.  Integers 
can be made iterable now, by calling range() on them, but that is not 
automatic.

In what way would you propose rewording the PEP?  If it's just "PEP 274 
[4] proposes to make integers iterable, simplifying..." that seems 
unobjectionable enough.


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Fri Mar  8 19:29:02 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:29:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
References: <mailman.1015612095.8491.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8ilqe.uas.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

- Not a wart:

  1. It is very clear what it does.
  2. range() can be used elsewhere.  No new syntaxes.
  3. In most situations you loop over list of items instead of counters.


- Wart:

  When you do need the index, neither of the following is very nice looking:

     for i, x in zip(range(len(a)), a):
         b[i] = x

     for i in range(len(a)):
         b[i] = a[i]


So the wart is the way indices are generated, not how the for-loop is
constructed.  I think the iter(n) proposal addresses the right problem, but
the solution is too broad: it produces iterators in many uninteded places.


Two ideas that I do like:

      for i, x in items(a):
          b[i] = x

      for i in indices(a):
          b[i] = a[i]

They address the right problems at minimum cost.  They can be extended to
xitems and xindici, of course.


Huaiyu


From vincent_a_primavera at netzero.net  Fri Mar  1 06:49:40 2002
From: vincent_a_primavera at netzero.net (Vincent A. Primavera)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 11:49:40 +0000
Subject: C-ISAM...
Message-ID: <1014983381.22216.3.camel@del-vap-bos.ralphpill.com>

Hello,

	Does anyone know of a module/api to access records from a C-ISAM
database?

	Thank you,

	Vincent A. Primavera.






From aahzpy at panix.com  Wed Mar 13 13:55:32 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 13:55:32 -0500
Subject: Another socket/thread question
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net>
Message-ID: <a6o7b4$h8v$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <a6o69c$ntq$1 at horsefly.nf.net>, Ken <khirmint at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I've got a thread that continously listens to a socket, and reports what it
>receives. Blocking is turned on, and I would like it to stay that way since
>the only thing the thread has to do, is listen to the socket.
>
>My question is when the socket needs to be closed (program shuts down, or
>that user is being disconnected by the server) is it possible to interupt a
>socket.recv ()?
>
>If not, whats the easiest way to cut processor time from looping endlessly
>with blocking turned off?

http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From amuys at shortech.com.au  Wed Mar 13 20:24:51 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 17:24:51 -0800
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <mailman.1016042063.7531.python-list@python.org> <tf6v8u40aqikddq19jfnugo7tm83v0gpo0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203131724.79f3f51f@posting.google.com>

Gon?lo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message news:<tf6v8u40aqikddq19jfnugo7tm83v0gpo0 at 4ax.com>...
> On 13 Mar 2002 12:53:50 -0500, com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A.
> Craig) wrote:
> 
> >Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> writes:
> >
> >> For starters, range (and xrange) is a perfectly sensible, reasonable and
> >> useful built-in. But the biggest use I make of it is in iterating through
> >> a list, e.g. as in
> >> 
> >> for index in range(len(mylist)):
> >>     <whatever>
> >> 
> >> and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
> >> sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
> >> myself doing this quite often.
> >
> >I don't understand how range is a reasonable and useful built-in if
> >this use is not.  
> 
> There are other useful, reasonable and sensible uses for the range
> built-in. My comment is that this particular use looks warty to me
> because any sequence, especially if it obeys the "list-protocol" (that
> is, it has methods like __getitem__, __setitem__, etc.) should be able
> to generate the indexes (or keys) of its members. Just like a
> dictionary.
> 
> >
> >If you have a list [2, 3, 5, 7, 11] and you want to iterate through it
> >you don't need range:
> >
> >for item in list: 
> >  <work on items>
> >
> >If, on the other hand, you want to iterate though the indicies of said
> >list rather than the items themselves you need to come up with some
> >way to generate a zero based list of integers up to one less than the
> >size of the list (i.e. a list of indicies).  When you create this list
> >you aren't doubling information that the list already has.  A list
> >does not contain a list of indicies into itself.  The list knows its
> >elements, in order, and how many elements it has.  From this you can
> >generate a list of indicies, but there are no 'keys' stored in a list
> >object like there are in a dictionary.
> 
> This is where I beg to disagree. If the elements are in order, as they
> are in a list, it is perfectly reasonable to ask, "you are a list,
> right? then hand me the indexes of your members." If the list has the
> keys in memory or not, that is an implementation issue.

I dissagree, if you want the indexes attached to their items, ask for
it

zip(range(len(lst)), lst)

If it's a large list, use xrange/xzip respectively.  I am curious what
sort of programs you are writing where you so regularly care what the
index of a list item is?  Such concerns are not in my experience.  If
I want an array I'll use an array, but if I'm using a list it's as a
sequence.

I honestly can't work out what the problem is.

Andrae Muys


From mgash at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 07:27:04 2002
From: mgash at trisystems.co.uk (Mark Gash)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:27:04 -0000
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCC7760@intrepid>

	* Mark Hadfield <m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz> [2002-03-21 14:02 +1200]:
	> "Jill Obsidian" <obsidian_genius at yahoo.com> wrote in message
	> news:cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882 at posting.google.com...
	> 
	> > How can I put a check in my script which will allow me to
determine
	> > whether I'm running on Win << File: message.txt >> ows or Linux
at execution time?
	> 
	> >>> import sys
	> >>> sys.platform
	> 'win32'
	> >>> import os
	> >>> os.name
	> 'nt'
	 
	That's a crude way of determining the platform, because sys.platform
	depends on the compiler used to compile Python. Yes, even on
Windows.
	But I'm  reasonably sure that the Pythonlabs folks won't change
their
	Windows compiler anytime soon.

	I'd very much like to have a real way for determining the platform.
	Anybody wants to write a PEP? :-)

	Gerhard

The only way of defining the os name that I have found is then to examine
the os.environ .By examining the COMSPEC you will be able to determine a win
9X machine opposed to an NT or 2000 machine (comspec for 9X will show
command.com whereas win32 machines will show cmd.exe).

BUT I would like to 'second' Gerhard's suggestion of having a real way for
determining the platform.

Kind Regards,

Mark Gash
Consultant
TriSystems Ltd.
020 7264 0440
mgash at trisystems.co.uk





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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Mar 16 11:50:20 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:50:20 GMT
Subject: Linux endline
References: <3C932C41.2974C1DA@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <gJKk8.25432$n4.4999467@newsc.telia.net>

Fabien H?non wrote:
> 1? When I use it under Linux I would like to get rid of the \r which
> appears at the end of each line. ( I know there is a difference of
> endline between Windows, Mac and Linux).

how about

if line.endswith("\r\n"):
    # deal with DOS file ending
    line = line[:-2] + "\n"
self.text.insert(END, line)

> 3? Is there a way to fire up an external application (like POV or a
> modeler) in background

look up "os.spawn" in the library reference.

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Thu Mar 21 18:53:11 2002
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:53:11 -0800
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
In-Reply-To: <u7ko62kn6.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHIEBODJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com>

> Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > Is there an obvious reason why modules imported from the current
> > directory don't have an absolute pathname for __file__?
> 
> No.  I think there's a bug on sf about this.
> 
> It would be a bit of a pest to implement, I think, but I may be
> missing something.
> 
> Cheers,
> M.

I keep bumping into that one too.  I can't think of any advantage
for the current semantics, so I am submitting a PEP.  I didn't see
a bug in sf or an existing PEP, but I might have missed something
so please let me know.  Seems like a PEP is more appropriate than
a bug report though.

I can't think of any reason for it to be difficult to implement.
Seems like the code that assigns to __file__ in the first place
could simply call abspath(), which should give correct results at
load time.  Seems like this PEP would probably only require one
line of code.

- Ken Seehof <kseehof at neuralintegrator.com>




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Mar 30 13:04:17 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:04:17 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org> <a84t0v$k7u$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <eppstein-077106.10041730032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <a84t0v$k7u$1 at inputplus.demon.co.uk>,
 ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy) wrote:

> > > Not in Guido's eyes <wink>.  We don't need 3 equivalent ways to
> > > turn an arbitrary expression into a bool ("bool(x)" same-as "not
> > > not (x)" same-as "truth(x)").  *Especially* if str(bool) and
> > > repr(bool) produce 'True' and 'False', people have a legitimate
> > > need to make an arbitrary true/false expression produce 0 and 1
> > > too, if only to preserve 0/1-based true/false output.
> > > operator.truth() has always been the best way to do exactly that.
> > > Alternatives like "(boolexpr) + 0" and "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and
> > > "(0, 1)[boolexpr]" reek in comparison.
> > 
> > Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> > an int is int(b).  Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for
> > this purpose is backwards.  (IMO there's almost *never* a reason to
> > import that module anyway.)
> 
> I thought Tim was trying to map a range of integer values onto just 0
> and 1 as ints, not False and True, where as you're suggesting he just
> wants to get an int from a boolean.  I think he has an expression like
> day_of_month, e.g. 30, and wants a 0 or 1 from it.
> 
> I could easily be wrong here.

If that's what he's doing, int(bool(x)) is still much clearer than the 
alternative bool-to-int expressions that (as he says) reek.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From brian at lodoss.org  Tue Mar  5 02:38:01 2002
From: brian at lodoss.org (Brian)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 23:38:01 -0800
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203040130.17140530@posting.google.com> <a611bl$44i$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <8fc4b19e.0203042338.141afe8b@posting.google.com>

Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message news:<a611bl$44i$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl>...
> If it's performance and not code obfuscation you're after, maybe you'd
> better spent some time on profiling it.

Thanks Carel, I'll file your earlier suggestion under "code
obfuscation" then :)

Do you also feel my original code is better in terms of style or would
it be even better as the more verbose:

z = []
for i in xrange(y):
    z.append(MyClass())

OK - now I have another question (and remember I'm new to Python) if
map and lambda are part of the core language and have well defined
behavior, why is it that using them is considered bad form?  Are they
just the redheaded step-children of the language, or what? ;-)


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Tue Mar 19 07:00:40 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:00:40 +0100
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a778r2$279v$1@norfair.nerim.net>

There's no python preprocessor.
You can make "safe" config files for simple values (numbers, strings, simple
lists) with the ConfigParser standard package.
It's use and API are described in the standard Python doc.

"Dave Swegen" <dswegen at software.plasmon.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list at python.org...
> Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define? I'd
> like to have what essentially is a header files with easily modifiable
> values (these will then be used to give default attribute values to
> various classes). Or are globals the only way to go?
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>




From lac at strakt.com  Sat Mar  9 16:59:51 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:59:51 +0100
Subject: should i learn it first ? 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Qiang.JL" <dragon@china.org> 
   of "Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:01:44 GMT." <ISti8.89159$aFN.65869@news1.bloor.is> 
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org>  <ISti8.89159$aFN.65869@news1.bloor.is> 
Message-ID: <200203092159.g29LxptB025367@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Q
> 
> Do you guys not agree to master C/C++, a large amount of time will be
> required (somewhere on the net i saw it's appro 3-4 years.  whew!!)
> In one i want to learn it but on the  other this time consuming issue scare
> me .as the  bad tradeoff -- it's smarter to use a language that uses the
> machine's time less efficiently, but your time much more efficiently.
> 
> am i whining? , :-)

You aren't whining.  This is the biggest argument in favour of using
Python rather than any other language on the planet (though there
are some fans of LISP and Smalltalk who will want to say MINE too!).

I don't know of a single person who considers themselves excellent in
C++ who also knows Python who doesn't also consider themselves to be
more productive in Python than they are in C++.  And we are talking
5, 6, 10 times as productive in Python.

> 
> and one more question,  what's you view of "you have mastered a language" ?
> knowing syntax and grammer is the begining to master, then know how to use
> them(wisely) and  coding coding ... after certain long time , that you call
> you master the language? As the same data structure and programming mind
> almost  apply to any language, i never so sure if i master a language or
> not, and only feel i can use this or that language do the job. Or maybe this
> can be said there is no such thing you master the language, It's only you
> know this language better and have more experience with it.

You need to spent a lot of time fixing the bad programs written by
people who are learning a language before you can say that you have
mastered it.  You need to know more than 'how I alone can use it to
make wonderful programs', but instead 'how to write code so that other 
people, including other people I have not met, can adapt the programs 
I made in ways I never envisioned'.

When you are a Master, other people get better just because you are
around -- and when you are an exaulted Master other people get better,
all the time, just to read your code.

> 
> Those are the questions poping up in my head once in a while when i am
> tempted by some fance widely used languages and wondering should i give it a
> go by putting aside the one i am using which i am not sure if i've mastered
> it yet.
> 
> sincerely thanks any input which will help me explore the programmer world
> .....
> 
> Q.

If you do a Google search of comp.lang.python of articles written by me
that mention C++, you will rapidly discover that I hate the language.
This is because I used it all the time, not because I never learned or
mastered the language.  (C on the other hand, I love.  But not for
writing application programs in.)

I do not think there is a single concept in programming that you need 
C++ to learn; every one that exists there you could learn just as well 
in some other language.  And I truly worry about somebody who worries
about 'using his own time effectively' programming in C++.  C++ is the
language where you trade programmer hours to make code that runs
very, very, fast.  If only the fastest code will do for your needs,
then C++ may well be the language for you.  But it is a language to
suffer for.  It _wants_ the kind of dedication where you are willing
to make the heroic effort; C++ programmers suffer all the time.  It
is a very macho language that way.  And C++ programmers get to say
'ha ha, my language is harder to use than yours is, so I am a tougher,
stronger, better programmer than you are'.  And some of them say that
a lot.  It's harder to kill your own antelope dinner with a club
as well ...

If, against this advice, you decide to go master C++ next, could you
do us a favour and remember Python?  There are a great many people in
this world who decided one day that they would learn C++, hated it,
and to this day believe that they hate programming, and are no good at
it, when they only hate C++. If this starts to happen to you, remember
Python and come back.  I guarantee you will enjoy learning Python more
than C++.

Laura Creighton



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 15:05:31 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:05:31 +0000
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <slrna8kqob.2gh.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:44:45 GMT, Qiang.JL <dragon at china.org> wrote:
>Hi,all
>
>apologize if this is off-topic :)
>
>I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
>stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two languages to
>improve my language view. There are two languages are on the list: python
>and C++
>I have heard a lot ppl talk about C/C++,saying it's the must language to
>learn for a programmer.

Firstly, C and C++ are separate languages. C++ is mostly a superset 
of C. Both languages are popular and widely used.

Some people would argue that you can't be a "real programmer" unless 
you know C++. I personally would consider someone who knows several 
langs including C++ to be much more of a programmer than someone who 
just knows how to write simple screens in VB with a little 
behind-the-scenes code.

As to what you should learn *next*, I'd guess it depends on what 
sort of programs you are expecting to write in the near future. C 
and C++ are used mostly for similar sorts of things; Python for 
other sorts of things.

>and i indeed feel so. but C/C++ is hard and may need
>to take longer time to learn and get the concept.also, Python seems a good
>language and easier to learn.

It certainly is.

>I think some of you may come cross this, so let me ask you these questions
>
>do i need to learn C/C++ to be a good programmer?

That depends entirely on what you mean by "good programmer".

>which one is better to start with ? ( I'm not a program beginner so python
>being a beginner programmer maybe not be applied here)

You could do it either way... personally I'd go for Python first.

>How many language do you think one should _master_? 

If you want to be as good at programming as you can be, then as many 
as possible. You should certainly have written a significant amount 
of code in at least 10.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 14:12:06 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:12:06 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news> <slrna8mj5r.tjv.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3c8b8112.27836128@news> <slrna8n2kd.1i8.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3c8cf137.2639944@news>
Message-ID: <ak7j8.19376$N7.4421203@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3c8cf137.2639944 at news>, brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:

> I understand and agree with what you  are saying. However, it is
> possible in some languages (VB, for example) to return a numerical
> result from a function with only two (or any other number) of decimal
> places.

If the language is using BCD representation then this is true.
If it's using binary FP, the this is not true. Some languages
have BCD math support.  Back in CP/M days, most language
implimentations (BASIC, FORTRAN, Pascal, whatever) supported
either BCD floating point or binary floating point.  The BCD
support was often called "financial mode" or something opaque
like that.

Python doesn't have BCD (at least not in the standard distro).

> Not a formatted string representation, but an actual numerical
> value that can be used in further calculations. This value is, of
> course, an approximation and has really been truncated rather than
> "rounded."

Either it's BCD and really does have "decimal places" or it's
binary FP, and it's exactly the same as what you get in Python.
I'll take your word for it that VB is using BCD.

> Anyway, we are arguing now over how many angels can dance on the head
> of a pin.

Not really.  Proper use of floating oint and functions like
round() require that the underlying representation is
understood.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm rated PG-34!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 06:23:12 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:23:12 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c2
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIGHKAHJGMPJEEAGPKENMGGAA.fp@contact.de>
References: <NEBBIGHKAHJGMPJEEAGPKENMGGAA.fp@contact.de>
Message-ID: <m3u1r2uue7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Frank Patz" <fp at contact.de> writes:

> > Note for AIX users: there are still problems with AIX in this release,
> > and there has not been time to repair them without fear of breaking
> > platforms that currently work.  Hopefully by the time of the release
> > of 2.2.1 final we will be able to provide a recipe that allows AIX
> > users to build and run Python.
> > [...]
> 
> Hmm, can someone shed more light on this issue?

I think this is a red herring: Some user, for some reason, does not
have cc_r. According to a number of other AIX users, cc_r should
always be available, so it appears to be an installation bug of the
AIX system in question. I don't think it deserves fixing.

Regards,
Martin




From cd.cd at wanadoo.fr  Sat Mar 30 06:44:12 2002
From: cd.cd at wanadoo.fr (Cyr)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:44:12 +0100
Subject: Problem with Tkinter
References: <a82cne$aef$1@wanadoo.fr> <m3pu1nui7l.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a848ft$i19$1@wanadoo.fr>

Thanks a lot for the help, I will try it.
By the way, do you know which path is used to search for Tk libraries ? Can
I change it manually in the Module/Setup file (after I ran ./configure) ?

Best Regards,

Cyrille DUMORTIER



"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3pu1nui7l.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Cyr" <cd.cd at wanadoo.fr> writes:
>
> > Python has been installed on another station in a common directory and
> > Tkinter works great on the other station. But the Tk library isn't in a
> > common directory. On this station (srv0023), I only have Tcl/Tk 8.0 (and
no
> > library in the directories mentioned in the error message). Is there any
way
> > I can configure python so that it would use Tk 8.0 library on the
station
> > but continue to use Tk 8.3 on the other station ?
>
> It is possible, but difficult. You need to compile _tkinter.so twice,
> once linking it with Tk 8.0, and once linking it with Tk 8.3. That
> requires that you have both versions installed on the build station,
> including header files for both versions.
>
> > In fact, I wonder how I can change the path search for the Tk
> > library within python.
>
> You need to edit Modules/Setup to direct make to a specific Tkinter
> location. In doing so, you must uncomment the *shared* line in Setup,
> since it will otherwise build _tkinter directly into the Python
> executable.
>
> HTH,
> Martin
>




From adam at gliwice.pl  Tue Mar 19 18:05:45 2002
From: adam at gliwice.pl (Adam Przybyla)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 23:05:45 GMT
Subject: Serial Ports
References: <3c96c220$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au> <slrna9f8rk.b4.dietmar@bronko.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <a78g89$ori$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>

Dietmar Lang <dietmar at bronko.fh-wedel.de> wrote:
> Hi!

> Jamie Carl wrote:
>>     I'm still fairly new to Python so forgive me.  I'm hoping someone can
>> point in the right direction regarding how I would go about accessing a
>> serial com port from Python.  I'd like to do it mainly under Linux, but
>> hopefully it will work under windows aswell.
>> 
>> Is it possible?  Can someone point me to some documentation or code samples?

> Check out the Universal Serial Port Python Library:

> http://balder.prohosting.com/ibarona/en/python/uspp/uspp_en.html
	... or http://kgr.pl/uspp-0.2.tar.gz ;-) Regards
								Adam Przybyla


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 15 16:41:46 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:41:46 -0600
Subject: Optimising list comparison
In-Reply-To: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>
References: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>
Message-ID: <15506.27290.218605.524319@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Graham> A friend of mine is using Python in a research project where he
    Graham> needs to compare each element of two vectors, such that ...

    Graham> Now, having read Skip M's python optimisation page ...

which is getting quite dated... ;-)

    Graham> Neither of us have yet managed to come up with anything to beat
    Graham> it (we've been timing the alternatives over 100000 itterations).

    Graham> Any hints?

Psyco <http://sourceforge.net/projects/psyco>.  I added these lines at the
end of your benchmark script:

    import psyco
    psyco.bind(attempt1)
    psyco.bind(attempt2)
    benchmark(attempt1)
    benchmark(attempt2)

and ran it again.  I got

    100000 iterations of <function attempt1 at 0x811a914> took: 8.673 secs
    100000 iterations of <function attempt2 at 0x8132e94> took: 19.812 secs
    100000 iterations of <function attempt1 at 0x811a914> took: 1.546 secs
    100000 iterations of <function attempt2 at 0x8132e94> took: 20.121 secs

die-map-die-ly, yr's,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar  2 13:17:25 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 19:17:25 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015025883.4457.python-list@python.org> <a5plko$f7n$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5ptsb$99s16$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <eppstein-92FFB2.08080702032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <a5r4vl$5gp$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> In article <a5ptsb$99s16$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>,
...
> But that wouldn't be as useful for iterating backwards through lists.
> Which is what most of this seems to be directed at, rather than anything to 
> do with integers per se, so I wonder why we are trying to convert integers 
> into lists of indices rather than converting the lists directly.

But then you would need yet another parameter to an enhanced range or
the yet to come indici to indicate you want to iterate in reverse, like:

    for i in range("spam", reverse=1): pass
    for in in indici("spam", reverse=1): pass

The nicety of the enhanced iterating-integers proposal is that it gives
a very easy spelling of two of the more frequent usages of iterating
over the (range of the:) length of something once you accept that
integers can count (up/down) and that `count' is spelled `iter' in
Python.  Still haven't made up my mind on that last one:)

-- 
groetjes, carel


From richard at stockcontrol.net  Wed Mar 27 15:52:43 2002
From: richard at stockcontrol.net (Richard Walkington)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:52:43 -0800
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <2144d9df.0203271252.1ea1cf0b@posting.google.com>

>>> John Shipman reveals new Tkinter and PIL documentation
>>>        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/129319
>>>        84 pages in Postsvript or PDF format

Don't know about anyone else but the link to Tkinter documentation
mentioned above didn't work for me. Found this link on google:

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&selm=99en42%242vl6%241%40newshost.nmt.edu


From wall at adinet.com.uy  Fri Mar  8 09:35:07 2002
From: wall at adinet.com.uy (Walter Moreira)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:35:07 -0300
Subject: Announce: RPy (R from Python)
Message-ID: <20020308113507.A2855@casa.parque>

Hello.

I wrote a small extension module for using the R programming language from
within Python.  It makes it possible to use the huge mathematical and
statistical library of R from Python, almost whitout any changes from the text
of R manuals.

As a side effect, it is also possible to use the full graphics capabilities of
R, which are extremely good.

You can download it from:

    http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy

It is in distutils format.  I attach a fragment of the README below.

Regards:
Walter

-- 
--------------
Walter Moreira   <>  Centro de Matematica  <>  Universidad de la Republica
email: walterm at cmat.edu.uy  <>  Home Page: http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm



       RPy 0.1 -  Python interface to the R Programming Language


1.  WHAT IS RPy?

RPy is a very simple, yet robust, interface to the R Programming Language
(http://www.r-project.org).  It can manage all kinds of R objects and can
execute arbitrary R functions (including the graphic functions).  All the
errors from the R language are converted to Python exceptions.  Any module
that later were installed on the R system, can easily be used from within
Python, without introducing any changes.  Currently it works only under
Linux/Unix.

This code is inspired in RSPython from the Omegahat project
(http://www.omegahat.org/RSPython).

[...snip...]

3.  USING RPy

For details see the file USING.  As a quick example, try the following
session:

    >>> from rpy import *
    >>>
    >>> l = [r.dchisq(x, 4) for x in r.seq(0, 10, by=0.1)]
    >>> r.par(ask=1, ann=0)
    >>> r.plot(l, type='lines')

and voila!, the graph of the density of a chi squared distribution with 4
degrees of freedom should appear.  Refer to the file USING for more info on
the interface, and to the R Programming Language manuals, which can be found
on

    http://www.r-project.org

In general, every line of the R manuals can be translated almost directly to
Python.  See the conversion directives in section 5 of file USING.




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Sun Mar 24 14:46:31 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:46:31 GMT
Subject: The OOM-Killer vs. Python
Message-ID: <3c9e2b5f.9993062@news.t-online.de>

I have a python-based SMTP server (see http://p-nand-q.com/shicks.htm)
running on our server, and in general it has worked flawless (since
about nov 2001). However, in the recent week that dreaded linux OOM
killer twice killed the python process. [The machine has 768mb ram -
call me oldfashioned but that SHOULD be enough for both Linux & Python
to get along, really. OK, its running KDE, and has only 256mb for
swap, but still...]

Anyway, even though I believe that this is more of a fault of the
Linux Kernel VM quality than the script (the system has been running
fine for months and now two kills in one week - that smells fishy to
me) - how CAN I controll the memory usage for pythons GC? Is there a
way to easily find out in python which memory is allocated at runtime,
and by which objects?


From ajeru at vknn.org  Sun Mar  3 14:00:33 2002
From: ajeru at vknn.org (Alexander Jerusalem)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 11:00:33 -0800
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
References: <24c39b2c.0203021850.7679418c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015125072.16815.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24c39b2c.0203031100.33d57b3d@posting.google.com>

Ok, thanks for your reply. Here's my output:

>>> import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc
>>> con = odbc.connect("se", "scienceexile", "x")
>>> c = con.cursor()
>>> c.execute("select * from country")
>>> print c.fetchone()
('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)
>>> c.close()
>>> con.close()

And it's the same when I write the resultset to a file, so I don't
believe that it's just a display problem. The data comes from an
oracle database and the encoding and stringformat settings don't seem
to have any effect.

Alexander


Gerhard H?ring <gh_pythonlist at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015125072.16815.python-list at python.org>...
> Le 02/03/02 ? 18:50, Alexander Jerusalem ?crivit:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm using the mxODBC package to query a database that contains german
> > umlauts. The result strings conatain hex codes instead of umlauts.
> > I've played around with encoding and stringformat values but to no
> > avail. Any hints?
>  
> Yes. Post an example from an interactive Python session.
> 
> It's not unlikely that everything is just fine but your terminal doesn't
> show the umlauts.
> 
> Gerhard


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Mar 11 11:10:23 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 08:10:23 -0800
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6iktf$98d$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c at posting.google.com>,
Graz Bukanoff <drevenhaug at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Is Python an object based programming langauge?

Yes.  Next question?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From markus at ibp.de  Fri Mar 22 04:44:02 2002
From: markus at ibp.de (Markus Redeker)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 10:44:02 +0100
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <slrna9htdq.5dl.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C9A797E.E6476BEE@spam.nada.kth.se> <D_wm8.98888$1g.8095876@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <u663px7h9.fsf@ibp.de>

"Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> writes:

> Short answer: the language has to work together as a whole.

This is a good answer to _many_ Python questions...

-Markus


From joost_jacob at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 05:03:33 2002
From: joost_jacob at hotmail.com (J.Jacob)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 02:03:33 -0800
Subject: eval of a private attribute
References: <3C998F89.66DB1290@infomaniak.ch> <13285ea2.0203210814.7287a5db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <13285ea2.0203220203.5396e709@posting.google.com>

Looking at the other posts the other class i did post can be improved
upon.
Here is a class for mixin use with a method getAttribute for 'safe'
access to attributes, maybe somebody can improve on it still ?

# file: GetAttribute.py

class GetAttribute:
    """
    A class for 'safe' access to attributes, see method
    getAttribute().
    """
    def __init__(self):
        "__init__() is here only for demonstration purposes."
        self.__user = "~briner/big/usr.rdb"
        self.public_user = "thatsme_public"
    def getAttribute(self, var):
        """
        Get attribute with name 'var', even if "hidden" behind two
        underscores.
        Return None if no attribute with the name var exists.
        """
        if hasattr(self, var): p = getattr(self, var)
        else:
            try: p = getattr(self, '_%s__%s' % 
                             (self.__class__.__name__, var))
            except AttributeError: p = None
        return p


if __name__ == '__main__':
    p = GetAttribute()
    print p.getAttribute('public_user')	# get a public attribute
    print p.getAttribute('user')        # get a 'private' attribute
    print p.getAttribute('nosuchuser')	# get a nonexisting attribute


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  5 22:32:54 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 03:32:54 GMT
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
References: <vcfh8.405$tL.70@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <G5gh8.50204$pN4.4529600@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"logistix" <logstx at bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:vcfh8.405$tL.70 at nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> Is the following code operating this way by design or is it just
> implementation?  It seems to indicate that the nested function is
redefined
> each time the parent function is called.  Is this necessary or
desirable?

It is consistent with the Python execution model.  'def' is an
*executable* statement, not a declaration.  When 'def' occurs and is
encountered at module level, it is executed.  When a function is
called, *all* the statements within (except 'global' declarations) are
executed as encountered.

Terry J. Reedy





From wurmy at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  2 20:42:25 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:42:25 GMT
Subject: PEP 234 little bug?
References: <3c817238@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <3C817FC1.A155DBAB@earthlink.net>

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> 
> Just read through some of the already implemented PEPs.
> 
> PEP 234 (iterators) states:
> 
> >    - It has been proposed that a file object should be its own
> >      iterator, with a next() method returning the next line.  This
> >      has certain advantages, and makes it even clearer that this
> >      iterator is destructive.  The disadvantage is that this would
> >      make it even more painful to implement the "sticky
> >      StopIteration" feature proposed in the previous bullet.
> >
> >      Resolution: this has been implemented.
> 
> I can't see a next() in a file object. Shouldn't it be
> "Resolution: this has not been implemented." ?

Hm, I don't think so. I think it does not say that the *file*
object should have a next() method... rather, it says that
it's its own iterator, and the iterator has the next()
method. Maybe the wording could have been a bit more careful,
but essentially it's true what is says. And iterating over
files has indeed been implemented in 2.2.

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Mon Mar 25 09:09:44 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 01:09:44 +1100
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <1017000019.3094.31.camel@localhost>
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
	<1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost>
	<m31yec2b9g.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
	<1017000019.3094.31.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <m3r8m84u3b.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

> For this problem, I think the solution is in the interpreter -- your
> macros are just hard to work with (from what I can see), because
> they are dynamically scoped and being used in lieu of real
> functions.  It's not a syntax issue.

I would really like it if you could explain a little further.

The macros do sort of work like functions in that they pass arbitrary
template content to the macro for substitution at the location
specified by the macro.

I tried to work out a simple way in which values from the execution
context namespace could be passed as arguments but couldn't see how to
do it in a nice fashion

> I'm not sold on all the benefits of ZPT either, but I think it's a
> natural fit for the particular case of replacing an attribute value.
> To me, <td al:bgcolor="something dynamic"> reads pretty well, and
> should make some intuitive sense even if you don't understand the
> scripting itself.  All attributes are kind of hidden, and the
> dynamic statement is no more hidden than the thing it is replacing.

I agree.  My biggest problem with ZPT was the control flow.

> Also, you're left with a mostly-intact tag -- al-td isn't an HTML
> tag, and software that understands HTML won't understand that tag.
> That means you can't preview the unrendered code in a browser and
> you can't let a WYSIWYG editor touch it.

The reason for the al- prefix is to allow the regex parser to
recognise the tag in amongst the plain HTML tags.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From neal at metaslash.com  Mon Mar 18 16:05:35 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:05:35 -0500
Subject: Generating getter methods with exec
References: <3C964E1A.84D5A26B@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <3C96569F.8E76FA6E@metaslash.com>

Stefan Schwarzer wrote:
> 
> I would like to generate some getter methods in a class which in fact
> access a stored dictionary. Unfortunately, I'm not able to get it work.
> 
> Suppose the following code is in getter_test.py:
> 
> class GetterTest:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
>                       'key2': 'two',
>                       'key3': 'three'}
> 
>     def _make_getters(self, dict_name, key_list):
>         for key in key_list:
>             code = ( "def %(key)s(self):\n"
>                      "    return self.%(dict_name)s['%(key)s']\n" %
>                      vars() )
>             print code
>             # this seems to be wrong but what should that be?
>             exec code in globals(), self.__dict__
> 
>     def key3(self):
>         return self._dict['key3']
> 
> In the interpreter (Python 2.2) I get:
> 
> >>> import getter_test
> >>> gt = getter_test.GetterTest()
> >>> gt._make_getters('_dict', ['key1', 'key2'])
> def key1(self):
>     return self._dict['key1']
> 
> def key2(self):
>     return self._dict['key2']
> >>> gt.key1()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: key1() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
> 
> As can be seen, gt.key1() doesn't behave as expected (at least as
> expected by me ;-) ).
> 
> >>> gt.key1(gt)
> 'one'
> 
> This works, but needs an additional instance parameter which corresponds
> to this observation:
> 
> >>> gt.key1
> <function key1 at 0xa662c>
> 
> though I would rather like
> 
> >>> gt.key3
> <bound method GetterTest.key3 of <getter_test.GetterTest instance at 0xa648c>>
> 
> Can anyone tell me how I can generate the evaluated code as bound
> methods instead of functions? Many thanks in advance for any help! :-)

You don't need to generate code.  This should do what you want:

class GetterTest:
    def __init__(self):
        self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
                      'key2': 'two',
                      'key3': 'three'}

    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        try:
            return self._dict[attr]
        except KeyError:
            raise AttributeError, "getting attribute '%s'" % attr

>>> g = GetterTest()
>>> g.key1
'one'
>>> g.key2
'two'
>>> g.key3
'three'
>>> g.key4
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 8, in __getattr__
AttributeError: getting attribute 'key4'

Neal


From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Tue Mar 12 19:57:35 2002
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:57:35 -0800
Subject: Rule Engine in Python
Message-ID: <3C8EA3FF.DE3E38F5@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi Andrae

Andrae Muys wrote:
> 
> lee.ingram at 432one.com (Lee Ingram) wrote in message news:<eb612768.0203101940.5565b282 at posting.google.com>...
> > I have used Google to scour the web looking for an implementation of a
> > rules engine using Python. I need a mechanism whereby slightly trained
> > end users will be able to add / modify business rules and have them
> > execute. I previously used Blaze Software's Advisor rules engine to do
> > something similar. Has anyone seen, implemented, or tossed out this
> > idea previously?
> >
> > Inquiring minds want to know...
> >
> 
> Eric Raymond implemented a simple rules engine as the foundation of
> the new configuration engine for the linux kernel.  If it's useful
> then great.

CLIPS wrapping are available at V.Ulogov's site at starship,

FuzzyCLIPS wrappings on top of it are here:
ftp://starship.python.net/pub/crew/avv/clips-wrapper.tgz

Alexander



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Mar 29 14:12:46 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:12:46 GMT
Subject: [ANN] PYNOSPAM 0.1 (and some Embedded-Python-Questions)
Message-ID: <3ca4b9e8.10558859@news.t-online.de>

pynospam is a Python-Powered extension for Microsoft Outlook, that
will 

- filter spam mail i.e. tag the subject line with [SPAM!] if it thinks
it is spam. 

- Because the spam detection is based on an at-runtime-interpreted
python-script, you can easily add your own spam detection algorithms
using regexs and whatnot. 

- and, ..., TADA: even more usefull, convert incoming HTML mails to
plaintext and thus be saved from those bad javascript mails ;)

(Note: This is for Outlook, not OutlookExpress (OE); or rather: I
don't know if it works with OE, it works with Outlook 2000). 

More info and download incl. source:

http://p-nand-q.com/pynospam.htm

OK, onto the questions. The code consists of a C++ - written "Exchange
Extension" for Outlook, that embedds the Python interpreter and, for
new incoming mails calls the python script using PyRun_SimpleFile. I
have a few problems:

- the script is installed in PYNOSPAM project directory. I seem to be
unable to put other scripts there and import them successfully -
probably because the directory is not on the python path. Can a python
script change the import path at runtime? 

- Having run in that problem, I tried the "poor-mans-import" approach,
which is basically

exec(open(filename).read())

That didn't work, but I got no error message?! I redirected sys.stderr
before that, and other error messages seem to appear in the logfile,
but when I add that nothing gets written, and PyRun_SimpleFile returns
-1. 








From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Mar  2 20:47:00 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:47:00 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-E81CC6.17470002032002@news.service.uci.edu>

Here's another way of looking at the same question.
An iterable object has a next() function, that's what it means to be 
iterable.  If numbers are iterable, we can call number.next(), right?
So what should 5.next() be?  Surely anyone familiar with the Peano axioms 
would say 6, not 0!
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 14:26:15 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:26:15 +0000
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> Not a problem!  Converts, in fact, get special treatment <wink>.  Seriously
> though, if nothing else, perhaps these PEP 276 discussions have helped to
> highlight Python's wonderful "everything is a first-class object"
> philosophy!

Let me try to organize my thoughts a bit on why I dislike this PEP so 
seriously. I have no problem with the "everything is a first-class object"
philosophy in Python. But I feel that precisely what this pep introduces is a 
bad usage (IMO) of these ideas.

When 'for i in 5' becomes valid, what we are saying is, the object '5' knows 
how to count. Apparently this is ok, but I see problems: '5' is an integer, 
but there are also negative numbers in the integers. So how do we interpret 
'for i in -3'? While one can argue that 0..4 is a 'natural' way to count for 
positive integers, the same argument becomes difficult to make for negative 
numbers. And by the way, as far as counting goes one could argue that 1..5 is 
even more natural, as it truly spans the set of the natural numbers of which 
5 is a member, as opposed to the less 'standard' set of the 'non-negative 
integers less than 5'. But that's a minor nit-pick.

The problem in my view is that when something is an object, its methods 
should do something which is reasonably natural and well defined for _all_ 
instances of a class. So when we ask the integers to have a counting method 
(via an iterator), I would want to have that counter behave sensibly for 
_any_ integer. And unfortunately, there's just no way to make such a 
definition IMHO.

So this ends up introducing lots of context-sensitivity and special-casing 
(things work _this_ way for non-negative integers, which is not too clean but 
commonly useufl, and do _that_ for negative ones because someone thought it 
would be a usefu default...) Down that road lies Perl, and it seems to break 
very harshly the 'explicit is better than explicit' principle of Python 
design which I feel has served the language so well thus far.

So in summary, it's not that I dislike integers being treated truly as 
objects, but rather that I want them to be clean objects. Objects whose 
methods behave in sensible ways for all instances of a class, not full of 
special defaults.

Just my 0.02,

f.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 20:04:51 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:04:51 -0500
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com> <slrna8o03d.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C8C02B3.674898B0@engcorp.com>

phil hunt wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:37 -0500, Christopher Browne <cbbrowne at acm.org> wrote:
> >
> >You might ask the "autocoding" guy if he'd be interested in adding
> >this as an alternative syntax for his scheme; it might well be more
> >readable than other options...
> 
> Is he still posting here?
> 
> (I killfiled him some time ago).

Not in any new threads.  I use Netscape for news, and it's not 
possible to killfile somebody without writing a f5g message
filter, so I killed the threads he was in and haven't heard a 
peep since... 

-Peter


From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Tue Mar 19 14:01:19 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:01:19 -0500
Subject: Process to process synchronization (unix)
In-Reply-To: <a74eik$21k9$1@norfair.nerim.net>; from eric.brunel@pragmadev.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 11:16:55AM +0000
References: <a6tn83$nh6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <a74eik$21k9$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20020319140119.A25754@phy.duke.edu>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 11:16:55AM +0000, Eric Brunel wrote:
> Gillou wrote:
> > I have a Zope application and another running process (in python too).
> > I need to transmit data and signal (hey ! data available, do your job !)
> > in an asynchronous way from the Zope app (in an external method) to the
> > python running process (that runs for another user).
> > The other process waits for the signal, takes given data, does the jobs
> > and waits further signal (...)
> > I'm 99.9% newbie in process to process communication.
> > What packages are helpful for this ?
> 
> The two means that come to my mind are:
> - named pipes: quite easy to handle, as they are manipulated just like 
> files. The problems are that named pipes are quite difficult to synchronize 
> if both processes should send data to the other, and that's it's a 
> Unix-only solution. All functions manipulating named pipes are built-ins or 
> in module os. If you choose that, I may also provide a few simple examples.
> - sockets: a bit trickier to handle, but far more practical for two-way 
> communications and multi-platform. The Python module to handle them is 
> simply socket. There's an example in the library reference (see 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/socket-example.html).

It's always seemed to me that named pipes have limited usefulness.
They seem like a bit of a hack that have two major selling points.

1) they are truly persistent in the sense that neither program has to
   "set them up" (although _someone_ does... just not for each
   instance of the program) and they continue to exist when both
   programs are gone.

2) it is REALLY easy to take a program that writes (or reads, but
   writes is easier) to a file, and make it write to a named pipe.

The latter is the more persuasive.  If you have someone else's program
that writes to a file only, but you want to do something more "active"
with the output, you can make the file a named pipe.

Anyway, other than that, I don't see much going for named pipes.
Sockets are nice because they don't require that you have extra crap
in the filesystem, and they can easily be made network-aware.  (Have
the two processes run on two different machines).

Bottom line... I would use sockets.
					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar 29 20:47:58 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:47:58 -0800
Subject: ANN: cage 1.0 -- Cellular automata engine in Python
Message-ID: <3CA5194E.D5AB00E1@alcyone.com>

Here's the latest PyOS installment:

	http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/cage/

Summary

    CAGE is a fairy generic and complete cellular automaton simulation
    engine in Python.  It supports both 1D and 2D automata, a variety
    of prepackaged rules, and the concept of "agents" which can move
    about independently on the map for implementing agent behavior.

    CAGE comes with numerous examples of fully-functional CA systems,
    including Conway's Game of Life, Langton's self-reproducing
    automaton, Langton's "vants," and 1D automata rule explorers.  It
    also comes with simple displayers (including a curses interface
    for 2D automata).  Also included is a unique implementation of a
    finite state machine (ant.py).

    Note that CAGE is implemented entirely in Python, and due to its
    very generalized nature, is not designed for speed.  It is
    sufficient to update a 80x24 Conway's Game of Life grid at a few
    times per second on a modern machine.  CAGE is intended primarily
    as an education toolkit, rather than an industrial-strength CA
    simulator.


Getting the software

    The software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/cage/cage-1.0.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/cage/.



Introduction

    In very general terms, a cellular automaton has the following key
    features:

    - time is measured in discrete steps, called time units;

    - a network of cells, each of which with a well-defined state at
      each time unit;

    - at each time unit, each cell has a series of other cells which
      constitutes its neighorhood;

    - the state each of cell changes according to a state transition
      function which depends on the state of that cell and the states
      of the cells of its neighbors;

    - in synchronous automata (the typical usage), all cell
      transitions take place simultaneously.

    In most cellular automata (and most textbook definitions), the
    cellular network is arranged into a rigid lattice (*i.e.*, a line
    or a grid), and for any given cell its neighborhood is constant
    (that is, the same for all time steps).  These assumptions,
    however, are not present in CAGE.

    ...

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Wed Mar 27 18:47:53 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:47:53 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions
References: <a7tgrl$ipu$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <m3pu1p7fqf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a7tln9$93q$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> > I'm on Win2000, so when I type
> > >>> print e.encode('cp1252')
> > I get the Euro symbol.
>
> What do you mean by that statement? Where do you "get" it? In the
> cmd.exe window? Unlikely, since that window uses the OEM encoding.

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that this was in the GUI console window of
PythonWin.
See the other posting... PythonWin does strange things when printing unicode
directly??

Thanks for your other info!
Irmen




From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Mon Mar 18 14:34:04 2002
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:34:04 -0500
Subject: Relieved but disappointed: The Pariah thread
Message-ID: <000701c1ceb3$f8559270$7845f6d1@ArtsPortable>

>I gave up ages ago.

>Dale Strickland-Clark
>Riverhall Systems Ltd

Where do you go to follow the developments for a tool on which
you rely for enhanced productivity - *and* some good knock knock
jokes.

Art






From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Mar  7 08:54:16 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:54:16 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org> <6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> <just-6353F6.13105107032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <u3czc4l2t.fsf@python.net> <just-4C6415.14491507032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <just-438C6B.14541607032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <just-4C6415.14491507032002 at news1.xs4all.nl>,
 Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> ugliness of the example.

s/example/proposal/g

Just


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 06:14:18 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 13:14:18 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl> <m3adsp8zie.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA6F012.E2631003@accessforall.nl>
Message-ID: <m3adspm1kl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl> writes:

> I'd like to know whether this PEP merging all numeric types would also merge
> the bool type into its evt. hierarchy.

See for yourself:

http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0228.html
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0242.html


> > Notice that the relationship of bool and int has two aspects: one is
> > whether you can combine them in numeric operations,
> > e.g. 28+isleap(year). There is absolutely no way to remove this
> > property from the language - too much code would break if that would
> > raise an exception.
> 
> There are two ways to do this:
> - marking such code with: from __past__ import nonbool
>   (as I remarked earlier this is rather radical)

I hate the __future__ statement, so I definitely don't want to get a
__past__ statement. Following PEP 5, you will need a phased
introduction strategy for booleans if you don't want to interact them
with numbers. Don't expect to get this in this decade, though.

Also, I doubt that this would be implementable: those magic import
statements can only perform 'static' analysis of the module in
question. Consider the following scenario:

# module a.py
def foo_p():
  return True

# module b.py
def addem(a,b):
  return a+b

# module c.py
from __past__ import nonbool
import a,b
print b.addem(10, a.foo_p())

How is the bytecode of c.py supposed to know that foo_p returns a
boolean, and that addem will attempt to convert this to an integer?

> - defining __add__ and __radd__ in the int and float classes to also
> accept a bool sounds quite pythonic and acceptable to me.

That would work, but only somewhat. There are other places where
booleans need to act as integers, e.g. indexing: array[b] ought to
work, for backwards compatibility, even if b suddently turns into a
boolean. That means that every __getitem__ implementation needs to
become aware of booleans - so likely a lot of code would break.

> An Square that is a Rectangle has inherits two degrees of freedom,
> (height and width) which have to constrained to a single one in the
> implementation.
> Implementing such constraints is a bit awkward 

That depends on the rectangle interface. If rectangles are immutable,
implementing the constraint is straight-forward, not awkward.

class Rectangle:
  def __init__(self, x, y, w, h):
    self.x,self.y,self.w,self.h = x,y,w,h

  def area(self):
     return self.w*self.h

class Square(Rectangle):
  def __init__(self, x, y, w):
    Rectangle.__init__(self, x, y, w, w)

> When bool is-a int, one would have to (awkwardly) implement at least
> one such constraint, namely that bool values can only be 1 or 0.

Not at all. Bools are immutable, and singletons. If bool would not
inherit from int, nothing in the implementation would change; see the
PEP.

Regards,
Martin


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar  7 09:39:39 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 06:39:39 -0800
Subject: mword2text on win32
References: <3C8776D0.3040200@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <a67ufe$ccrej$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Thomas Guettler
> Does someone know how I can convert
> msword to plain text in python on win32?
> 
> I tried wvware from gnuwin32.sf.net (with popen3)
> but it fails with complex documents.
> 

from win32com.client import Dispatch
word = Dispatch('Word.Application')
worddoc = word.Documents.Open(r'C:\testtext.doc')
ii = 1
while 1:
    try:
            nextparagraph = worddoc.Paragraphs(ii)
    except:
            break
    print nextparagraph
    ii += 1

HTH,

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com  Thu Mar 28 09:39:00 2002
From: corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com (Corrado Gioannini)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:39:00 +0100
Subject: Declare list of large size
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-002672.16430318032002@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.1016495070.23614.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-002672.16430318032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20020328153900.A2221@zephyr>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 04:43:03PM -0800, David Eppstein wrote:
> > > list = [0]*100
> > 
> > But note that this is only safe for immutable elements. You will obtain a
> > reference to the *same* object as each element.
> > 
> > This normally bites people when they try to make multi-dimensional arrays
> > ...
> > 
> > list = [[0] * 2] * 2
> > print list
> > list[0][0] = 1
> > print list
> > 
> > [[0, 0], [0, 0]]
> > [[1, 0], [1, 0]]
> > 
> > As you can see, the first element of each sub-list has been changed - this
> > is because each sub-list is in fact the same list!
> 
> I got bitten by that, once.  It took very little time to learn not to do 
> that.
> 
> So, is it considered more Pythonic to create a multidimensional array by
>     list = [[0]*100 for i in range(100)]
> and then access it by
>     ...list[i][j]...
> 
> or is it more typical to just use dictionaries?
>     list = {}
>     ...list[i,j]...

another way to build a mutable multidimensional array is simply
>>> list = eval(repr([[0] * 2] * 2))
avoiding the problem of multiple references to the same list object

do you find it too dirty, unpleasant or un-pythonic? 
(i'm really asking, it's not an ironic question ;-] )

C.
-- 
Corrado Gioannini
<gioco at nekhem.com>

-
"Thought is only a flash between two long nights,
                                         but this flash is everything."
                                                          (H. Poincar?)



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Fri Mar 15 13:24:28 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:24:28 GMT
Subject: Memory problem with C-Extension
Message-ID: <3c923818.33586312@news.easynews.net>

Hi,

Im my programm I am using a C-Extension (WinNT, Python 2.1.1,
Visual C++ V6)

I am passing a couple of arrays filled with data,some ints and one
array filled with 0s to the C-routine. The data is needed
for calculations (surprise) and the 0-array is a placeholder
for the expected int-results. (The values in my example are
only dummies of course).

Everything works fine, the results are correct but sooner or
later after I called the C-routine the program crashes with
a memory error. That's not reproducable and depends on
the size of the data I am working with. Sometimes it doesn't
happen at all.

I know that there is missing some information but maybe some
of you can see a BIG mistake (e.g. refrence counting)  that's
responsible. As I am neither
very good at Python, nor at C what you see is mostly copied, stolen
or guessed ;-) 

Thanks a lot in advance,
Marcus

Here is the condensed code :

Python-------------------------------------------------------------------------
        CmEleNr=10000
        CmEle=[(1,1,1) for  for e in range(CmEleNr)]
        CmEle=Numeric.array(CmEle) # array of int

        CmNodesNr=10000
        CmNodes=Numeric.array([(1.0,1.0,1.0) for n in
range(CmNodesNr)])# array of float

        AbaPtsNr=15000
        aip=[(1.0,1.0,1.0) for a in range(AbaPtsNr)]# array of float
        AbaPts=Numeric.array(aip)
#empty array of int that is filled by the C-routine:
        MasterEle=Numeric.array([0 for n in range(AbaPtsNr)])

        ip2cm = Numeric.array(MasterElement.MasterElement(MasterEle,

AbaPts,AbaPtsNr,CmEle,CmEleNr,CmNodes,CmNodesNr))

//C-----------------------------------------------------------------------
static PyObject* MasterElement (PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
  PyArrayObject *MasterEle, *AbaPts, *CmEle, *CmNodes;
  int AbaPtsNr, CmEleNr, CmNodesNr;

  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!O!iO!iO!i",
                              &PyArray_Type, &MasterEle,
                              &PyArray_Type, &AbaPts,  &AbaPtsNr,
                              &PyArray_Type, &CmEle,   &CmEleNr,
                              &PyArray_Type, &CmNodes, &CmNodesNr ) )
    return NULL;

//        printf ("%d  =  %d, %d\n", AbaPtsNr,
MasterEle->dimensions[0], MasterEle->strides[0]);

// The function that does all the work and fills MasterEle with ints
  MasterIntern ((int*)MasterEle->data, (double*)AbaPts->data,
AbaPtsNr,
                (int*)CmEle->data, CmEleNr, (double*)CmNodes->data,
CmNodesNr);

  return PyArray_Return (MasterEle);
}

static PyMethodDef MasterElement_methods[] ={
        {"MasterElement", MasterElement, METH_VARARGS},
        {0,0}
};

void initMasterElement (void)
{
        Py_InitModule("MasterElement", MasterElement_methods);
        import_array();
}


From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar  1 00:12:45 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 00:12:45 -0500
Subject: dirwalk.py generator version of os.path.walk
In-Reply-To: <3C7EFC9B.AB6029EA@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEGPOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jim Dennis]
>  I guess I'm just wary of recursion, particularly when I've read
>  that Python doesn't support tail-end recursion.

[Greg Ewing]
> That's only an issue if you abuse recursion for the likes of
> iterating along a linear list. In languages which optimise
> tail-recursion, it is common for people to do things like
> that using recursion, but it would be silly in Python.
> If, e.g. the list were a million items long, you'd need a
> million stack frames.
>
> But here, the stack is only going to be as deep as the
> directory hierarchy, which is hardly going to kill you.
>
> So, don't just blindly reject recursion -- think about
> how it applies to the problem at hand!

If I were Jim, I'd continue leaving recursion out of this specific
application.  An explicit "todo list" trivially supports either
breadth-first or depth-first traversal (a choice Jim explicitly mentioned as
something he wants to control).  Calling it "a stack" is an illusion
suffered by those blindly embracing recursion <wink>.




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar 27 18:26:12 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:26:12 +1100
Subject: Why does this work?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A23C@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Phlip [mailto:phlip_cpp at my-deja.com]
> 
> We find just >having< a style guideline slightly more 
> important than the
> value of any few marginal items in it.
> 
> And we like to find ways to cure the "magic member bug". If 
> you can think of
> any others, please share.

__slots__

Tim Delaney



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 08:29:55 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:29:55 +0100
Subject: [ANN] PYNOSPAM 0.1 (and some Embedded-Python-Questions)
References: <3ca4b9e8.10558859@news.t-online.de> <slrnaach4v.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.1017547371.14451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaae3qj.6e3.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:00:53 -0800, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:
>phil hunt wrote:
> > at some point I want herbivore to run on Windows
>> email clients).
>
>I still didn't check out herbivore, but what about writing an smtp proxy 
>for that?

That is one of the ways Herbivore will work.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Mar 25 10:11:59 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 09:11:59 -0600
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <m3r8m84u3b.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
	<1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost>
	<m31yec2b9g.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
	<1017000019.3094.31.camel@localhost> 
	<m3r8m84u3b.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <1017069119.589.18.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2002-03-25 at 08:09, Dave Cole wrote:
> > For this problem, I think the solution is in the interpreter -- your
> > macros are just hard to work with (from what I can see), because
> > they are dynamically scoped and being used in lieu of real
> > functions.  It's not a syntax issue.
> 
> I would really like it if you could explain a little further.
> 
> The macros do sort of work like functions in that they pass arbitrary
> template content to the macro for substitution at the location
> specified by the macro.
> 
> I tried to work out a simple way in which values from the execution
> context namespace could be passed as arguments but couldn't see how to
> do it in a nice fashion

Well, you might be able to help the situation some if you create a new
scope for the macro, and have something like dtml-let -- that way you
could do stuff like.  That way variable assignments inside your macro
will pass out of scope when the macro finishes, and at least not
overwrite things in the main scope.  You can use some form of let to
manipulate the namespace when it doesn't match what the macro expects. 
This is what DTML does, and I assume ZPT uses the same mechanisms (it
only seems to be a change of syntax).

I don't like this at all, though, as there's all sorts of problems that
pop up when you start abstracting things more deeply.  Also, I think
macros are very important, and keeping them python-like is a very nice. 
Then you can define, inside a single template, not only the full page
style, but the style of components of the page.  For instance, I create
pages that create headers with lists underneath them, all entirely
dynamic.  If the template can define what a header and what a list
should look like, then I have much more power over the look of the page.

I'd pass arguments like:

<al-somemacro arg1="value1" arg2="value2">

This seems pretty straight-forward, and also maps directly to keyword
arguments.  You could add the syntax:

<al-somemacro arg1 arg2="value2">

(which isn't XML, but so it goes), which would equivalent to
<al-somemacro arg1="arg1" arg2="value2"> -- basically saying which parts
of the namespace to pass in.  It should also be fairly easy to create
Python functions that do the same thing as the macro.

Some people will still want to pass in entire namespaces... you  could
use inclusion instead of macros in that case, or make another form of
macros.  You could also make another form of setting variables, that
sets them globally (perhaps as constants) -- this is much cleaner than
making every passing variable and loop global.

  Ian





From jason at jorendorff.com  Tue Mar 12 13:20:46 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:20:46 -0600
Subject: doctest Hassles!
In-Reply-To: <10d46bdc.0203120928.7e9c708b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLKEPADIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Douglas Garstang wrote:
> Well, when I print the value of ls, I get:
>
> [...]
>
> Notice the blank line at the end. Where did that come from?

print x always writes x, followed by a newline.

> Also, why is the output in ONE column instead of across
> the screen (as in a normal ls) when spawnv is used? All I did was
> print the output of the ls command, but the output is different.

"ls" has this quirk.  If it finds that stdout is a tty, then it
spits out nice columns.  Otherwise, one file per line.  I think GNU
"ls" has command-line options that allow you to specify which mode.
"ls -1" forces one column.

Several Unix utilities do this sort of tty detection.
I rather dislike it (except in Python of course).  But that's life.

> On a side note, I've had this problem before with python,
> trying to read text config files. As soon as it hit an empty
> line, reading would stop! Huh?

Could you clarify this?  Is this a separate problem?
Do you have source code that illustrates this?

> What am I missing here? I would imagine that executing external
> programs is central to testing, but it seems to be _really_ difficult.

Doctest isn't designed for stuff like this, and there are some
limitations to what it can do.

Anyway, try os.listdir(os.curdir) and save yourself some trouble.  :)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From john at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 16:49:47 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:49:47 GMT
Subject: newbie question on lists, getting an error on basic addition
References: <uggeauc292padb9gk6ghcmghv82g888i3l@4ax.com> <a87gkn$e3g$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <i31fauosaii7953gp4mnl5srcosepes5j8@4ax.com>

Ah, ok, thanks, it works fine now


On 31 Mar 2002 12:22:31 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <uggeauc292padb9gk6ghcmghv82g888i3l at 4ax.com>,
>John Warney  <john at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>>>> counter = 0
>>>>> answer = 0
>>>>> alist
>>[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>>>> counter
>>0
>>>>> answer
>>0
>>>>> while counter < 6:
>>... 	answer = answer + alist[counter]
>>... 	counter = counter + 1
>>... 	
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "<interactive input>", line 2, in ?
>>IndexError: list index out of range
>>>>> answer
>>10
>
>Add a print counter at the top of your loop and you'll see why.



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 28 16:35:13 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 13:35:13 -0800
Subject: question on struct.calcsize
References: <3ca33d3f.26101031@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203281335.3b92866c@posting.google.com>

stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek) wrote in message news:<3ca33d3f.26101031 at news.easynews.net>...
> Hi,
> could anyone explain the following, please.
> (Win NT, Python 2.1.1)
> 
> >>> from struct import *
> >>> calcsize("i")
>  4
> >>> calcsize("s")
>  1
> >>> calcsize("si")
> 8

Simply, the int is being aligned on the next available 4-byte
boundary. See below.
>>> from struct import *
>>> for n in range(10):
...    fmt_str = '%dsi' % n
...    print fmt_str, calcsize(fmt_str)
...
0si 4
1si 8
2si 8
3si 8
4si 8
5si 12
6si 12
7si 12
8si 12
9si 16
>>>

If you are designing the struct yourself and you want to cut down on
wasted memory, list out the structure members in descending order of
size -- int, byte, byte will take the space of 2 ints whereas byte,
int, byte will take the space of 3 ints. Other things to bear in mind:
a 64-bit machine may well have an 8-byte alignment requirement;
malloc(n) generally rounds up the space taken to K times the alignment
requirement, where K can be > 1; and specifically for small n, malloc
may use a greater K -- for example malloc(1) could chew up as much
memory as malloc(16). End result: you often have "spare" memory at the
end of your struct; packing a small int into a byte may save no memory
and may in fact be slower to access on some architectures.

Don't try to fight the alignment and get an int starting at offset 1.
On some architectures you will get an address violation; on most
others accessing such an int would be much slower than accessing an
aligned int.

OTOH, if the struct is already specified, you need to look very
carefully at whether you want "native" alignment (what you have by
default in your example) [the calculations are done for you but the
answers vary by platform] or "standard" alignment [which really means
no assistance with alignment; you have to put "x" pad bytes in the
format string yourself] -- read the docs. If the producer and consumer
are on different platforms, you need a carefully-designed
standard-alignment struct or, better, use a higher-level-than-C-struct
data interchange protocol.

... and that *was* the SHORT answer :-)

HTH,
John


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 20:17:40 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:17:40 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <200203302336.g2UNa8F10511@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEEHOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Guido, on why operator.truth() should change to return True/False]
>>> Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
>>> an int is int(b).

[Tim, being difficult]
>> It's also an incorrect way for me,

[Guido, being more difficult]
> No it's not, note that I said "turn a bool b into an int".  Clearly
> the assumption there is that b is a bool, not an arbitrary value in
> whose truth value we're interested.

In context, your original int(b) suggestion was in response to my:

    people have a legitimate need to make an arbitrary true/false
    expression produce 0 and 1 too, if only to preserve 0/1-based
    true/false output.  operator.truth() has always been the best
    way to do exactly that.  Alternatives like "(boolexpr) + 0" and
    "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and "(0,1)[boolexpr]" reek in comparison.

where, as I explained in the later msg to which you're replying now, just in
case it wasn't clear the first time around:

    I meant "true/false expression" in the way Python has always
    meant it, e.g. operator.truth([]) == 0, but int([]) raises an
    exception.

So you may say that "clearly the assumption there is that b is a bool", but
it's not at all clear that was a *reasonable* assumption in the context in
which you first said it:  I've been thru the business twice now of
explaining why int() isn't suitable for the cases I was talking about.
int(bool) is not a case I was talking about.

> IMO, bool(x) is the right way to "normalize" any value into a truth
> value.

Sure, it will be.  But if you need to, e.g., "preserve 0/1-based true/false
output", bool(x) may not work (depending on whether you yield to making
str(bool) and/or repr(bool) return "0"/"1").

> The way I think of operator.truth(x) is as something returning
> a normalized truth value.

Well, that's where we differ:  bool(x) will be *the* "right way to
'normalize' any value into a truth value".  As at the start, I don't need
two "right ways" to do exactly the same thing.

> ...
> [more of the same]
> ...
> I'm going to make this a BDFL pronouncement; I understand your
> argument but I don't agree with it.

Whew!  I'm glad that's finally over,

you-should-do-that-more-often<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 11:45:00 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:45:00 -0600
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270905490.20033-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <15521.59902.657216.982543@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270905490.20033-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <15521.63244.469114.753420@beluga.mojam.com>

    Dave> Now, about profiling multithreaded applications. Do you have any
    Dave> suggestions?

Other than looking at Python/ceval.c and Modules/_hotshot.c to see what
needs to be done, no.  A quick peek at the slides from Fred's hotshot talk
at IPC10 suggests that multithreading is either not yet supported or not
well-supported.  Fred probably has a better idea what still needs to be done
if you want to tackle it.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Sat Mar  9 19:40:08 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:40:08 GMT
Subject: Howto: Tkinter Listbox keyboard support
Message-ID: <ubsdxl0i7.fsf@online.no>

Anyone knows how to get the arrow keys to scroll the selection 
in a Tkinter Listbox?
-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From joonas at olen.to  Fri Mar  1 15:14:13 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:14:13 +0200
Subject: Securely passing arguments when opening a pipe to a program
Message-ID: <3C7FE115.9832EE5C@olen.to>

I am using Gnokii to send SMS messages with Python. Gnokii is started
with 
popen2.popen2 like this:

gnokiiRead, gnokiiWrite = popen2.popen2("gnokii --sendsms %s" %
phonenumber)
gnokiiWrite.write(message)
gnokiiWrite.close()
response = gnokiiRead.read()
gnokiiRead.close()

The problem is that the phonenumber string is not safe; it can even be
"000; rm -fR ~/*". How can I securely pass arguments when opening the
pipe?
Is there a way to pass the arguments like in os.execv.

- Joonas


From nobody at nobody.com  Sat Mar 30 17:34:36 2002
From: nobody at nobody.com (John)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:34:36 -0600
Subject: list of functions
Message-ID: <01rp8.34168$tg4.401910@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi,

I was glad to find that Python allows the following:

def addone(a): return a+1
list_of_functions=[addone]
list_of_functions[0](1)  --> returns 2

However, what if the functions require more than one arguments? say
def addall(a,b,c): return a+b+c?
Though list_of_functions[0](1,2,3) works, I'd like to make (1,2,3) as
variables.. How do I pass the variables to such functions?




From vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Mar 18 04:12:01 2002
From: vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de (Viatcheslav Kulikov RWTH Aachen)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:12:01 +0100
Subject: Python + Omni CORBA libraries link
Message-ID: <3C95AF61.5D25C8CD@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>

I am beginning to write a Python wrapper interface in order to make it
comminucate via CORBA-bus. At the compilation stage I receive the
following set of traceback messages:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\PROGRA~1\Python21\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File
"G:\Source\hysys_unit\corba_wrapper\impl\hysys_unit_factory_srv.py",
line 7, in ?
    from omniORB import CORBA, URI, PortableServer
  File "D:\Programme\omni\lib\python\omniORB\__init__.py", line 139, in
?
    import _omnipy
ImportError: DLL load failed: Das angegebene Modul wurde nicht gefunden.

>>>

I am using Python 2.1. and OmniORB compiler 1.0. The _omnipy module is
available there with a .pyd extension (a compiled library). This message
is received when the library is present at the PythonPath; when it is
not, the interpreter simply finds no module name _omnipy.
Please advise what can be done. I am new to the Python programming, so
please give as much detail as possible.




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sat Mar  9 12:09:32 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:09:32 GMT
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
References: <mailman.1015612095.8491.python-list@python.org> <slrna8ilqe.uas.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <slrna8k25k.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pqgk8uk69lqcf9b0cn4g2evapk9l63t5lg@4ax.com>

>What you sohuld be able to do is say:
>
>   for i in a.keys():
>      b[i] = a[i]

Thinking about this, what you say seems plainly correct.
Both Python lists and dictionaries have keys and values:
it's just that, for some reason, we don't think of lists
as having 'keys' for some reason, even though they plainly
do.

It would follow that the appropriate implementation of this
would be to return a iterator.

C//



From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar  2 13:05:25 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 19:05:25 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015025883.4457.python-list@python.org> <a5plko$f7n$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5ptsb$99s16$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a5r495$5bo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
> "Carel Fellinger"
>> You specify that the
>> integer to iterate over should be possitive, why not allow for
>> negative values and do the sensible thing, like:
>> 
>>    >>> [i for i in -3]
>>    [-1, -2, -3]

> If you change the sensible thing to mean:

>   [-3, -2, -1]

> I'd like it better.  ;-)

I noted the smiley, but just in case someone might think you have a
point: what would be the benefit of that?  It just let you loop over a
sequence in the standard order, but now with negative indici.  And the
range call to get this isn't that hard either: range(-3,0).

My proposal makes iterating in *reverse* order simple.
The tutorial could introduce it like:

   In python integers are objects too. And objects know how to do
   things, e.g. integer objects know how to add and just recently
   they learned how to count.  Positive integers count from zero
   upto but not including the number itself, whereas negative
   integers count from -1 downto and including the number itself.

   A common place where this feature of integers is used is in for
   loops and list comprehension. e.g.

      >>> s = "silly walk".split()
      >>> print " ".join([s[i] for i in len(s)])
      silly walk
      >>> print " ".join([s[i] for i in -len(s)])
      walk silly

   Although the first print statement is generally written as:

      >>> print " ".join([x for x in s])

The implementation is dead simple, to play around with it in 2.2:

    class Int(int):
     	def __neg__(self):
     	    return Int(int(self).__neg__())

     	def __iter__(self):
     	    i = 0
     	    if self >= 0:
     	       while i < self:
     		   yield i
     		   i += 1
     	    else:
     	       while i > self:
     		   i -= 1
     		   yield i

and define your classes to let __len__ return an Int object.

    class List(list):
        def __len__(self):
            return Int(len(list(self)))

trying it out, yack it doesn't work, len forces it into an int again:(

    >>> spam = List("spam")
    >>> type(spam.__len__())
    <class '__main__.Int'>
    >>> type(len(spam))
    <type 'int'>

I think this qualifies as a bug.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sat Mar  9 11:42:04 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:42:04 +0100
Subject: how to set the background color of a window with curses
In-Reply-To: <20020309125336.GA2236@lurkabove.darkstar>
References: <20020309125336.GA2236@lurkabove.darkstar>
Message-ID: <20020309164204.GB1466@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 09/03/02 ? 13:53, Marco Herrn ?crivit:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to set a backround color for a window and did it with
> 
> stdscr.bkgd(' ', curses.COLOR_BLUE)
> 
> But that doesn't work. It seems to do nothing.
> What am I doing wrong?

You're confusing colors with attributes. I recently stumbled across that
one, too :)

This will do the trick:

# define color 1 as black on blue
curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_BLACK, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
stdscr.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))

If you're getting this error:
  File "clock.py", line 6, in mymain
      curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_BLACK, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
      _curses.error: must call start_color() first

your TERM setting doesn't allow colors. You can then use something like
TERM=xterm-color instead.

Btw. there's a curses howto on http://py-howto.sf.net/ in case you
didn't know.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))



From a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com  Thu Mar  7 03:37:06 2002
From: a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com (a.clarke11)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:37:06 +0000
Subject: Beginner
References: <hi266a.fu9.ln@localhost.kaosmic.net>
Message-ID: <3C8726B1.2C619018@pop.ntlworld.com>

Hi,
I sometimes look at the book on line: it seems clear simple and fairly
wide in scope. However, I wouldn't use it as reference, and its a bit
light on object processes. A good, light introduction: perhaps you
should also have a more heavywight intro as well, eg the O'Reilly books?
I've been pythoning for less than a year, with little experience of
other languages.
Best wishes
Tony

Mr Boxer wrote:
Have you experience of the book "How to think like a computer
scientist - Learning with Python"?

I would like to learn python and begin with reading that
tutorial I found online at python site. I'm not a "strong old
programmer" but I've some experience with shell, perl, elisp
and C.

Thanks a lot.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 03:34:04 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 09:34:04 +0100
Subject: Unicode with win32com and makepy
References: <71jaau4q7m8ljplv7r9vrog529dibnf4s9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3vgbexxmr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> writes:

> Here's the question: what do we do in the long term?  Should makepy
> generate a __unicode__ member every time it generates a __str__ member?

I think so, although it could probably phrase that as

         def __unicode__(self, *args):
                 try:
                         return unicode(self.__call__(*args))
                 except pythoncom.com_error:
                         return repr(self)

        def __str__(self, *args):
                 return str(unicode(self, *args))

What is the set of types that __call__ can return?

Regards,
Martin


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 10 18:11:03 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:11:03 -0600
Subject: Regular expressions newbie: something for templates
In-Reply-To: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
References: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <15499.59399.171945.639758@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Thomas> "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
    Thomas> and turn it into
    Thomas> "This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s"

Give this a try:

    >>> import re
    >>> s = "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
    >>> re.sub(r"\$([a-zA-Z_0-9]+)\$", r"%(\1)s", s)
    'This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s'

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
"As often happens in Net communities, people find all kinds of energy to
compose incisive criticisms of the threads and postings of other members,
when they could be directing that energy towards brilliant new threads and
postings of their own." - Tom Neff



From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Mon Mar 18 16:05:43 2002
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:05:43 -0500
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org> <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com> <u4rjdred0.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <vDsl8.992$%m2.418@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh at python.net> wrote in message
news:u4rjdred0.fsf at python.net...
> woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby) writes:
>
> > And here's SourceForge bug #491612 (closed now), which was filed
to
> > report this very bug:
> >
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=491612&group_
id=25568&atid=384678
> >
> > Unfortunately, contrary to Oleg's assertion in c.l.py and Barry's
in
> > his message added to the SF bug report, the CVS version of has
*not*
> > been fixed.
>
> Are you sure?  It's certainly possible, but I think revision 1.6 of
> Lib/email/Parser.py, which became revision 1.5.10.1 on the
> release22-maint branch, was certainly aimed at fixing this bug.
> ...
> First it would be good if you could supply some evidence that the
bug
> isn't, in fact, fixed.

I checked the release22-maint branch of Python out of SF CVS at approx
15:00 GMT on March 18.  I took the next to last example in email.tex
(the program that mails the contents of a directory) and ran it for
three cases:
A) the target directory contains no files
B) the target directory contains exactly one file
C) the target directory contains more than one file

Here is the stderr ouput for case A:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dirmail.py", line 134, in ?
    main()
  File "dirmail.py", line 129, in main
    s.sendmail(sender, recips, outer.as_string(0))
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Message.py", line 59, in
as_string
    g(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 83, in
__call__
    self._write(msg)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 104, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 134, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 240, in
_handle_multipart
    for part in msg.get_payload():
TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

Here is the stderr ouput for case B:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dirmail.py", line 134, in ?
    main()
  File "dirmail.py", line 129, in main
    s.sendmail(sender, recips, outer.as_string(0))
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Message.py", line 59, in
as_string
    g(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 83, in
__call__
    self._write(msg)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 104, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 134, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Generator.py", line 240, in
_handle_multipart
    for part in msg.get_payload():
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Message.py", line 151, in
__getitem__
    return self.get(name)
  File "c:\dev\python\core\lib\email\Message.py", line 214, in get
    name = name.lower()
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

There is no output to stderr for case C, because it works fine.

I hope this adequately demonstrates that SourceForge bug #491612
(which was filed against the mimelib for of the email package, but is
still relevant to the stdlib fork) has not been fixed, even in the
release22-maint CVS branch.

BTW, my operating system is Windows NT 4.0 SP6a.

The example program is shown below.  I made one trivial change to make
the temp file name cross-platform; I flagged that change with
"DSR:platform independent version:begin" and "DSR:platform independent
version:end".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
#!/usr/bin/env python

"""Send the contents of a directory as a MIME message.

Usage: dirmail [options] from to [to ...]*

Options:
    -h / --help
        Print this message and exit.

    -d directory
    --directory=directory
        Mail the contents of the specified directory, otherwise use
the
        current directory.  Only the regular files in the directory
are sent,
        and we don't recurse to subdirectories.

`from' is the email address of the sender of the message.

`to' is the email address of the recipient of the message, and
multiple
recipients may be given.

The email is sent by forwarding to your local SMTP server, which then
does the
normal delivery process.  Your local machine must be running an SMTP
server.
"""

import sys
import os
import getopt
import smtplib
# For guessing MIME type based on file name extension
import mimetypes

from email import Encoders
from email.Message import Message
from email.MIMEAudio import MIMEAudio
from email.MIMEBase import MIMEBase
from email.MIMEImage import MIMEImage
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText

COMMASPACE = ', '


def usage(code, msg=''):
    print >> sys.stderr, __doc__
    if msg:
        print >> sys.stderr, msg
    sys.exit(code)


def main():
    try:
        opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'hd:', ['help',
'directory='])
    except getopt.error, msg:
        usage(1, msg)

    dir = os.curdir
    for opt, arg in opts:
        if opt in ('-h', '--help'):
            usage(0)
        elif opt in ('-d', '--directory'):
            dir = arg

    if len(args) < 2:
        usage(1)

    sender = args[0]
    recips = args[1:]

    # Create the enclosing (outer) message
    outer = MIMEBase('multipart', 'mixed')
    outer['Subject'] = 'Contents of directory %s' %
os.path.abspath(dir)
    outer['To'] = sender
    outer['From'] = COMMASPACE.join(recips)
    outer.preamble = 'You will not see this in a MIME-aware mail
reader.\n'
    # To guarantee the message ends with a newline
    outer.epilogue = ''

    for filename in os.listdir(dir):
        path = os.path.join(dir, filename)
        if not os.path.isfile(path):
            continue
        # Guess the Content-Type: based on the file's extension.
Encoding
        # will be ignored, although we should check for simple things
like
        # gzip'd or compressed files
        ctype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(path)
        if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
            # No guess could be made, or the file is encoded
(compressed), so
            # use a generic bag-of-bits type.
            ctype = 'application/octet-stream'
        maintype, subtype = ctype.split('/', 1)
        if maintype == 'text':
            fp = open(path)
            # Note: we should handle calculating the charset
            msg = MIMEText(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
            fp.close()
        elif maintype == 'image':
            fp = open(path, 'rb')
            msg = MIMEImage(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
            fp.close()
        elif maintype == 'audio':
            fp = open(path, 'rb')
            msg = MIMEAudio(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
            fp.close()
        else:
            fp = open(path, 'rb')
            msg = MIMEBase(maintype, subtype)
            msg.add_payload(fp.read())
            fp.close()
            # Encode the payload using Base64
            Encoders.encode_base64(msg)
        # Set the filename parameter
        msg.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment',
filename=filename)
        outer.attach(msg)

    # DSR:platform independent version:begin
    # Was:
    #fp = open('/tmp/debug.pck', 'w')

    # Changed to:
    import tempfile
    fp = open(tempfile.mktemp(), 'w')
    # DSR:platform independent version:end
    import cPickle
    cPickle.dump(outer, fp)
    fp.close()
    # Now send the message
    s = smtplib.SMTP()
    s.connect()
    s.sendmail(sender, recips, outer.as_string(0))
    s.close()


if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()





From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Mar 20 18:11:42 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:11:42 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <xRDl8.10641$Hz2.42334@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3bsdkw9wu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <vQOl8.11541$Hz2.47118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3C97FC23.1030702@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <OG8m8.14172$Hz2.59030@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Mark Hammond:
> >    There is also a lot that should be shared, such as the docstrings,
much
> > of the argument parsing as well as many of the posix calls. Splitting
may
> > lead to more breakage when common patches aren't applied to both.
>
> How about just using #include files here then?

   I'm sure some good form of packaging is possible, but as this is a large
and important module, I feel it needs quite a bit of thought and effort to
get right.

> >  It needs a way to specify the base generic
> > posix case cleanly but then to allow platforms to specialise or remove
those
> > functions needing different implementations or which can not be
implemented.
> > In my own C++ work, I normally do this through subclassing.
>
> It doesn't have to be *too* cleanly :)  Having little helper functions
> isn't too bad and could probably work - ie, think "pragmatically" more
> than "cleanly" :)

   I may be in an over-design mode but I've seen large modules (posixmodule
is 150K of fairly dense code) go bad through poor redesign before.

   What is apparent in reading through this code is that there are some
fairly repetitive code patterns. You have a posix function, so it gets a doc
string, some 'HAVE_*' protection, a method table def, and a function. In the
function, the arguments are parsed, the system call is made with threads
turned on, then any error status is turned into an exception and the return
value is boxed. Any allocations are cleaned up. This tickles the commonality
seeker in my brain. The code tries to merge some common sequences with
posix_1str and posix_2str but even this has been complexified by my patch.

   BTW, I'm not volunteering to redesign posixmodule. My original change was
just to allow the file constructor to take a Unicode string which is to me
the biggest gain in functionality.

   Neil





From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Wed Mar 27 13:28:42 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:28:42 +0100
Subject: Traceback without __class__ attribute ?
Message-ID: <a7t2vq$nldj4$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Hi Pythonistas,

I am wondering about this (hurting my OO comprehension):

>>> try:
...  5/0
... except:
...  type, value, traceback = sys.exc_info()
...
>>> traceback
<traceback object at 0x0250C1E0>
>>> type(traceback)
<exceptions.ZeroDivisionError instance at 0x0294D278>
>>> traceback.__class__
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: __class__
>>> sys.version
'2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]'
>>>

Why traceback has no __class__ attribute ?
Is it planned to change ?
Does it mean that exceptions.ZeroDivisionError is an "old style class" ?
What is the best mean to check the type/class in Python 2.2 (and next
versions) ? (and more specifically for dictionnary-like and list-like
objects).

TIA to everybody spending time to satisfy my curiosity (and/or correcting me
if I am wrong in my understanding).

B




From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Fri Mar 29 01:46:25 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:46:25 -0800
Subject: ActivePython 2.2 released!
Message-ID: <3CA40DC1.9A9D0A05@ActiveState.com>

We are pleased to announce that version 2.2 of ActivePython is now
available for download from http://www.ActiveState.com/ActivePython

I'll also take this opportunity to mention that we will shortly be
issuing ActivePython 2.1.2 (a bug-fix release for Python 2.1), and
ActivePython 2.2.1 (a bug fix release for Python 2.2 currently
undergoing final testing).

We're releasing 2.2 regardless of these upcoming releases because we'd
like to solicit feedback on some of the changes we've made in
ActivePython.  Specifically,

  - the Windows installer is brand new, and should work on a wider
    variety of platforms than before, including non-Administrator
accounts.
  - there is more documentation bundled, including several tutorials
    which were not previously shipped (especially on Linux).
  - We've made some changes to the Python Package Manager (PyPPM).

The PPM modules currently available include:

     * mxBase -- A set of utility classes including mxDateTime,
       mxTextTools, mxStack, mxTools, and mxProxy
     * Numeric -- high performance multi-dimensional array support
     * PIL -- the standard Python Imaging Library
     * PyChecker -- a code-proofing tool
     * StandaloneZODB -- the persistence solution from Zope, now
       available outside of Zope
     * ZSI -- the reference SOAP library
     * pyperl -- ActiveState's interface between Python and Perl

Please submit email feedback to ActivePython-feedback at ActiveState.com,
and file bugs against ActivePython at
bugs.ActiveState.com/ActivePython.  We will be using that feedback to
prepare the 2.2.1 and 2.1.2 releases.

Thanks, and enjoy!

-- David Ascher
   ActiveState



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Mar  4 07:10:58 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 13:10:58 +0100
Subject: How can I use a foreign language char in Swing
References: <mailman.1015239309.20214.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4664cbkj1.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:

> > Actually, this is quite likely: MS normally choses "?" as the
> > replacement character, and you need to explicitly request CJK fonts
> > when installing the English edition of W2k. If "Windows" really means
> > "W9x" in this context, things are probably even worse.
> 
> Wow, really?  I know next to nothing about it - but it feels
> as though I once heard that fonts have an explicit "i-am-stumped"
> glyph, usually an empty box...

I don't know what they do when the font does not incorporate the
glyph. However, if you use WideCharacterToMultiByte (or some such),
the replacement character normally is the question mark. You can see
this happen if you have a filename with funny characters, and try to
display those in console with the raster font.

Regards,
Martin


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 19:56:11 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:56:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Code Bash!!! (CacheDictionary)
In-Reply-To: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B45@SRM201002>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020306165611.shalehperry@attbi.com>

Comments:

*) maxlength=1000, I belive this variable is poorly named.  A dictionary is not
10 items long, it contains 10 items.  Something like maxitems or maxcount.

*) is kill_old() part of the interface for users?  I would guess this method
should be protected with a leading _.

*) self._timeout[k] = int(time()) + self._maxtimeout
                ^^^ -- shouldn't that be 'key'?

*) why use two dictionaries?  why not store data in dict? 




From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Mar 28 12:27:56 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:27:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
In-Reply-To: <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203281225040.795-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, phil hunt wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >Jim Dennis wrote:
> >>
> >>  The core loop is something like:
> >>
> >>         freq = {}
> >>         for line in file:
> >>                 for word in line.split():
> >>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
> >>                         else:                           freq[word] = 1
> >>
> >>  (assuming Python2.2 for file interation and dictionary membership
> >>  support using "in."  I *really* like those 2.2 features!  They make
> >>  my psuedo-code so executable!)
> >
> >Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
> >
> >would probably be faster, and it's a little simpler I think,
> >although I could see an argument that it's less readable.
> >Also doesn't depend on 2.2.
>
> IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works
> correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
>
> IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
>

However, with 2.2 you can do something like this to give key
access a default value:


Python 2.2.1c1 (#1, Mar 19 2002, 02:06:22)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class Dcounter(dict):
...     default = 0
...     def __getitem__( self, key ):
...             return self.get( key, self.default )
...
>>>
>>> count = Dcounter( {'ten':10, 'nine':9 } )
>>> count['ten']
10
>>> count['one'] += 1
>>> count['one']
1
>>> count['two'] += 1
>>> count['two'] += 1
>>> count['two']
2
>>> count
{'nine': 9, 'two': 2, 'ten': 10, 'one': 1}
>>> count['zero']
0



-- Steve Majewski





From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Fri Mar 29 13:39:44 2002
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven Majewski)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:39:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
In-Reply-To: <slrnaa7gc7.26a.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.40.0203291336370.430-100000@d-128-54-224.bootp.virginia.edu>


On 29 Mar 2002, Gerhard [iso-8859-15] H?ring wrote:

> Maybe it's just me, but I often have difficulties to understand the
> point of the "overkill" argument.
>
> > Any thoughts?  I sincerely appreciate everyone's help!
>
> If you can spare 5 megs of RAM and a little disk space, just go for
> Apache (or Xitami, or whatever). When you're running the webserver and
> are not using it currently, it'll be swapped out anyway, so why
> bother?
>
> It's a myth that Apache is complex to get running, here's what you'd
> need to do on Windows:
>
> 1) Install Python
> 2) Install Apache
> 3) edit etc/httpd.conf and add the line
>
>     ScriptInterpreterSource Registry
>
>    at the end of the file.

Apache comes preinstalled on Mac OSX, and all you have to do
there is click on "Start Web Sharing" in the System Preferences
Panel.  This is on all of the desktop machines, not just servers,
so they apparently didn't think it was overkill!

-- Steve




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Mar 27 06:16:45 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 03:16:45 -0800
Subject: C API for modules
References: <3CA09F43.80206@erols.com> <c76ff6fc.0203261556.3cfd003@posting.google.com> <3CA1499D.4070802@erols.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203270316.2f63daec@posting.google.com>

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message news:<3CA1499D.4070802 at erols.com>...
> John Machin wrote:
> > "Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message news:<3CA09F43.80206 at erols.com>...
> > 
> >>Is there some simple way to call functions in modules from C? In 
> >>particular, for module struct, how do I call pack, unpack, and calcsize?
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > OK, I'll be the bunny and ask the obvious(?) meta-question:
> > 
> > Give that the struct module is designed for Python callers to
> > pack/unpack C structs (laboriously), why bother? Why not just
> > manipulate the structs in C??
> 
> So I should use PyString_FromStringAndSize in C and struct.unpack in 
> Python or struct.pack in Python and PyString_AsStringAndSize in C.

Clarifying your "or":

Possible to use [PyString_FromStringAndSize in C and struct.unpack in 
Python] to pass data from C to Python AND [struct.pack in Python and
PyString_AsStringAndSize in C] to pass data from Python to C.

Just get check, re-check and re-re-check your format strings.

Yes, you sure don't need to call Python's struct.anything() from C,
especially struct.calcsize -- just spell it "sizeof" :-)

The struct module is designed for Python callers who have to interact
with C structs over whose format and layout the Python callers have no
control -- for example data in a binary file.

As you seem to be in control of both the Python side and the C side,
you may have more flexibility. If I didn't already have lots of C code
expecting the data to be in a particular struct, and there were only a
few fields involved, I'd be inclined to use Py_BuildValue to send data
from C to Python and PyArg_{Parse|Unpack}Tuple to get data from Python
-- in other words, the normal argument passing and return-value
mechanism. For a large/variable number of items of the same type, the
array module would be indicated.

Cheers,
John


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Mar 23 16:05:03 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 13:05:03 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <7xd6xwntgx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <c76ff6fc.0203230339.48961684@posting.google.com> <A51n8.216264$uv5.18611282@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203231305.7eb20123@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<A51n8.216264$uv5.18611282 at bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...
> "John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote in message
> news:c76ff6fc.0203230339.48961684 at posting.google.com...
> > Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in message
>  news:<7xd6xwntgx.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> > > counts = {}
> > > a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())
> > > for w in a:
> > >   if counts.has_key(w):
> > >      counts[w] += 1
> > >   else:
> > >      counts[w] = 1
> > >
> > > words = counts.keys()
> > > words.sort()
> > > words.reverse()
> > >
> > > for w in words:
> > >    print words[w], w
> >
> > Sorry, but this doesn't work. If you were to actually *run* your
>  code,
> > you would get this result [after adding
> >
> > import string, sys
> >
> > at the start of the script]:
> >
> >     print words[w], w
> > TypeError: sequence index must be integer
>  ...
> > Try replacing the last part of the script with:
> >
> > words = [(-count, word) for word, count in counts.items()]
> > words.sort()
> > for count, word in words:
> >    print word, -count
> 
> or, I believe, change the last line to
>      print counts[w], w

The basis for whatever it is you believe apparently doesn't include
running the code. The effect of the above change is to list the
results in reverse *word* order irrespective of the frequencies of
those words e.g.

42 zot
1 foo
666 bar

Anybody who considers this result to be useful, please post, as I
would be delighted to converse with you.

Cheers,
John


From bernie at 3captus.com  Sun Mar 17 17:09:22 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:09:22 GMT
Subject: MySQL-mod: setup-error: invalid distrib.option 'platforms'
References: <3C925742.8040001@web.de>
Message-ID: <3C951470.FDCFC92B@3captus.com>


Florian Konnertz wrote:
> 
> Hi! Any idea how to solve this prob?
> 
> root at xy /usr/local/mysql/MySQL-python-0.9.1 > python setup.py build
> error in setup script: invalid distribution option 'platforms'
> 
> OS: SuSe 7.2
> Python 2.0
> MySQL: /usr/local/mysql/bin/mysql
>         Ver 11.17 Distrib 3.23.49a, for pc-linux-gnu (i686)
> 
> In setup.py I changed the following var. to my local paths:
> ...
> if sys.platform in ("linux-i386", "linux2"): # most Linux
>      include_dirs = ['/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql']
> #    include_dirs = ['/usr/include/mysql']
>      library_dirs = ['/usr/local/mysql/lib']
> #    library_dirs = ['/usr/lib/mysql']
> 
> I appreciate your help!  What's wrong?  Are my paths too irregular?
> Thanx.

I've use Suse 7.3 with Python 2.1.1 and MySQL 3.23.46 (installed on
/usr/local/mysql) and does not encounter the problem you are facing
(BTW, same MySQL-python).  Are you willing to upgrade your Python to
give it a try?


Bernie


-- 
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Mar  2 06:00:56 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:00:56 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical
 computation?
In-Reply-To: <m3k7sviaew.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0203022148110.109-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On 2 Mar 2002, Konrad Hinsen wrote:

> Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
>
> > > # Python 2.2
> > >
> > > >>> 1e-200**2
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > > OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')
> >
> > That one is surprising and definitely not intended:  it suggests your
> > platform libm is setting errno to ERANGE for pow(1e-200, 2.0), or that your
> > platform C headers define INFINITY but incorrectly, or that your platform C
> > headers define HUGE_VAL but incorrectly, or that your platform C compiler
> > generates bad code, or optimizes incorrectly, for negating and/or comparing
>
> I just tested and found the same behaviour, on RedHat Linux 7.1
> running on a Pentium machine. Python 2.1, compiled and running on the
> same machine, returns 0. So does the Python 1.5.2 that comes with the
> RedHat installation. Although there might certainly be something wrong
> with the C compiler and/or header files, something has likely changed
> in Python as well in going to 2.2, the only other explanation I see
> would be a compiler optimization bug that didn't have an effect with
> earlier Python releases.

Other examples...

FreeBSD 4.4:
Python 2.1.1 (#1, Sep 13 2001, 18:12:15)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0
>>> 1e200**2
Inf

Python 2.3a0 (#1, Mar  1 2002, 00:00:52)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0
>>> 1e200**2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Result too large')

Both builds built with "./configure --with-fpectl", although the
optimisation settings for the 2.3a0 (CVS of yesterday) build were tweaked
(2.1.1: "-g -O3"; 2.3a0: "-s -m486 -Os").

My 2.2 OS/2 EMX build (which uses gcc 2.8.1 -O2) produces exactly the same
result as 2.3a0 on FreeBSD.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From morus.walter at web.de  Tue Mar 26 15:18:19 2002
From: morus.walter at web.de (Morus Walter)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:18:19 +0100
Subject: re.split and lookaheads
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.26.21.18.19.527560.1295@web.de>

Hi,

I'm trying to split a string into two parts using zero width record
boundaries.
This should be possible by using a regular expression which consists of a
lookahead only. Unfortunately python does not split my string.

So for example:
import re
text = "abc"
exp = re.compile("(?=b)")
print exp.split(text)

prints
['abc']
whereas I would expect ['a', 'bc'].
(since (?=b) is supposed to match the position before b)

Is this a limitation of pythons re split? Or am I missing something?

If I use the same RE for searching, it matches as exepted:
e.g.
mo = exp.search(text)
print mo.start(), mo.end()
=> 1 1

I know, that I can get the record boundaries as part of the result list, 
if the RE matches some text, but that's not really what I want to get.

Any comments?

greetings
	Morus


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Mar 29 17:26:42 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 14:26:42 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2 chr representation errors with embedded C
References: <mailman.1017411238.31523.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203291426.396dc444@posting.google.com>

"Mark Szigety" <mszigety at cisco.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017411238.31523.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> 
> I have recently made the upgrade to Python 2.2 from 1.5.2.  In the
> Python application which I develop, we have several embedded C
> functions, one of which is a simple function to convert a hex string to

Please post *examples*: (a) a "hex string" (b) its corresponding "100%
accurate" conversion to octal by a C routine when called by Python
1.5.2 (c) its corresponding incorrect conversion to octal by a C
routine when called by Python 2.2

> octal--it simply chars each byte and returns the new buffer.

Please explain (or post the *relevant* parts of C routine) -- the verb
"to char" has to me at least connotations not of C but of possibly
injudicious application of heat in cookery :-) -- seriously, you don't
convert from a hex representation to an octal representation by
"simply charring" each byte, for any conceivable meaning of "char".

> However, I
> have noticed a 0.01% error rate in Python 2.2 which I did not see in
> Python 1.5.2 (it was 100% accurate).  That is, 1 out of 10,000 hex
> strings will be converted incorrectly in the C function, usually one
> byte is returned as \x00 instead of what is should be.

1. Could be a NUL-terminated-string gotcher. Show us the C code.
2. And unusually it exhibits what other kind(s) of incorrect
behaviour?

> I also have
> noticed that in Python 2.2, chr(0xff) returns \xff instead of \377 in
> Python 1.5.2.

chr(0xff) has not changed; it returns "\xff" or "\377" which are just
different ways of representing exactly the *same* 1-character string.
The repr() function changed somewhere between 1.5.2 and 2.2 from
producing an octal representation to producing a hex representation.
What you are seeing is a difference in the representation of the
result of chr(), not a difference in the result itself.

> Could this be the source of the communication breakdown?

Hmmm ... this misunderstanding could have percolated into the
conversion routine. Makes me very curious to see what these "hex
strings" are.

> 
> I should mention that writing a similar conversion function totally in
> Python is 100% accurate in Python 2.2 as well as Python 1.5.2, although
> it is an order of magnitude slower.
> 

If as you say the Python routine performs correctly, please post it --
two reasons: (a) it will help define what your requirement for the C
routine is (b) the Python optimisation specialists may be able to eat
into that "order of magnitude slower".


From garrett at bgb.cc  Mon Mar 18 17:32:43 2002
From: garrett at bgb.cc (Don Garrett)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:32:43 GMT
Subject: os.popen4 and exit codes
Message-ID: <3C966B18.BB1E81BD@bgb.cc>

  My understanding for the popen2-4 functions was that they returned the exit
code as the result of the last related call to close(). This seems to be
working for me under Windows, but not Linux. This is the inverse of what I
would expect.

  I'm running Python 2.2 built from the src RPM on a RedHat 7.2 machine, but
found the same problem using the Python2 RPMs distributed by RedHat.

  As an example:

>>> (stdin, stdout, stderr) = os.popen3("false")
>>> stdin.close()
>>> stdout.close()
>>> stderr.close()  

  I would expect the close of stderr to return 256, but that doesn't seem to
happen.

  The close DOES return the exit code when I use os.popen(), but I need to be
able to capture stderr.

  Is this a known bug, am I doing something wrong, and/or is there a decent
workaround? I could do something funky like extend the command line to print
the error code on the last line of output, but I'd prefer to do this right if
I can.

  Thanks for any help!

--
Don Garrett                             http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting                                      garrett at bgb.cc


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Thu Mar 21 06:53:46 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:53:46 +0100
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
In-Reply-To: <a7bf0t$4uc$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
References: <cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882@posting.google.com> <a7bf0t$4uc$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <20020321115345.GA1542@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Mark Hadfield <m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz> [2002-03-21 14:02 +1200]:
> "Jill Obsidian" <obsidian_genius at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882 at posting.google.com...
> 
> > How can I put a check in my script which will allow me to determine
> > whether I'm running on Windows or Linux at execution time?
> 
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.platform
> 'win32'
> >>> import os
> >>> os.name
> 'nt'
 
That's a crude way of determining the platform, because sys.platform
depends on the compiler used to compile Python. Yes, even on Windows.
But I'm  reasonably sure that the Pythonlabs folks won't change their
Windows compiler anytime soon.

I'd very much like to have a real way for determining the platform.
Anybody wants to write a PEP? :-)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 13.3 ?C      Wind: 7.1 m/s



From narnett at mccmedia.com  Fri Mar 15 15:26:30 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:26:30 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
In-Reply-To: <a6tic4$uke$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJKEOJJKAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>

Anybody have any experience generating word frequencies from short documents
with Python and Perl?  Given a choice between the two, I'm wondering what
will be faster.  And a related question... any idea if there will be a
significant performance hit (or advantage?) from storing the data in MySQL
v. my own file-based data structures?

I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so) documents at
a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.  I'm thinking that
the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of useless data.  Since
word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm guessing that I can spot
unusual words (my goal here) by loading up the top 80 percent or so of words
in the database (by occurrences) and focusing on the words that are in the
docs but not in the set retrieved from the database.

Thanks for any thoughts on this and pointers to helpful examples or modules.

Nick Arnett




From doug at pobox.com  Mon Mar 11 17:49:55 2002
From: doug at pobox.com (Douglas Garstang)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 14:49:55 -0800
Subject: Using doctest and executing a process
Message-ID: <10d46bdc.0203111449.6bd761f5@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to integrate execution of an external process output into
doctest.

The following snippet of code:

def tester3():
    """
    >>> import os
    >>> os.system ('/bin/ls')
    example.py   example.pyc  tester.py
    0
    """

produces this output:

(dougg at ultra5-4:)%python example.py
example.py   example.pyc  tester.py
*****************************************************************
Failure in example: os.system ('/bin/ls')
from line #2 of example.tester3
Expected:
example.py   example.pyc  tester.py
0
Got: 0
*****************************************************************
1 items had failures:
   1 of   2 in example.tester3
***Test Failed*** 1 failures.

WHY? It runs fine interactively. It also knows to expect the right
stuff. It just SEEMS to think its only getting the return status code
of 0. Where did the other output from the external program go? I also
tried using os.spawnv instead of os.system and I got the same results.

Regards
Douglas Garstang


From m2 at plusseven.com  Tue Mar 26 02:29:36 2002
From: m2 at plusseven.com (m2 at plusseven.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:29:36 +0100
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
Message-ID: <20020326072936.GA12343@matijek>

Just out curiosity, 
why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?

def fact1(n):
    return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))

def fact2(n):
    result = n * 1L
    for i in range(1 , n):
        result *= i
    return result



-- 
o polite
http://plusseven.com/gpg/



From lac at strakt.com  Wed Mar 27 11:24:02 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:24:02 +0100
Subject: list comprehension question 
In-Reply-To: Message from Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp.com> 
   of "Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:19:10 EST."
Message-ID: <200203271624.g2RGO2rq014696@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

It wasn't the Robot books where I was thiking of looking, but a different
short story.  I actually believe that apologies are something which
are necessary due to one's-own need to behave rightly, rather than
somebody else's need to receive redress.  A society with both
Asimov-type robots and small children needs to do something
about the small child's propensity to order the robot to go jump
out the space station airlock.  When Mom says 'decent children don't
order robots to do foolish things' she can't make an appeal to the
robot's feelings, but to other things such as the anti-socialness
of waste.  Once such considerations come into play, the social value
of apologising needs examination -- and certainly, in a society which
is not based on enslavement, there is no room for somebody who is
'too big to apologise'.  People who regularily avoid apologising when 
they know perfectly well that they are in the wrong need to do so far
more for themselves than for other people.  That is trying to opt in and
out of society whenever it suits you.

Now I remember reading this and thinking this was pretty powerful stuff
when I was 14 or so.  And nun-dominated boarding school, where I escaped
classes that I was not interested in taking by illegally clibing trees,
reading books where I could not be found since 'tree-climbing' was so
much more forbidden than cutting physical educaiton classes that nobody
thought to look for me in the trees.  I'd sit in the top and watch them
seek and call for me at ground level.

Since thoughts that 'leopards kill their prey by dropping on them out
of trees' featured hightly in my thoughts at such a time, the discovery
that I might be damaging myself by opting out of society hit rather hard.
And I believed that it was Asimov who mentioned that -- until today.  It
doesn't sound like him.  It sounds more like Heinlein, but the Heinlein
fans have posted every satement he has ever written to the net, so if
I can't find it there, it is almost certainly not from Heinlein.  (He
does state this:

  In a family argument, if it turns out you are right - apologize at once!

But it is doubtful that this quote would have had such an effect on me,
my status as 'woefully misunderstood intellectual' was running at an
all time high then.  But figuring out if I wanted to reject all of society
or only my status as child within it was a nice problem.  And, arrogant
worm that I was, I took great comfort in the fact that all the people whom
I felt owed me apologies, (and there was quite a list) were secretly
damaging themselves in nasty permanent ways.  It was only much later
that I was able to connect their ability to treat me and the other children
so cruelly with the sort of damaging they were doing by not apologising.

However, all of this would only have been funny if the quote about half
of the apologising being for yoruself was from Asimov.  In usenet fashion
I will find the answer to who wrote this about 20 minutes after I post this.

Laura



From arthur.siegel at rsmi.com  Tue Mar 26 10:36:34 2002
From: arthur.siegel at rsmi.com (arthur.siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:36:34 -0500
Subject: keyword args - subclassing built-ins
Message-ID: <OFBE1228BF.897DBA8F-ON85256B88.00544B9D@RSMi.com>

Using keyword args seems to be a no go when subbing at least
numeric type builtins.  This seems to hold even when introducing
**kw down the road in the chain in a class multi-inheriting from a
class derived from a builtin and a classic class.

Or else I'm just confused again.

Is anyone aware of documentation on the use of keywords
with subs of built-ins.

I am aware of the __new__ syntax, and expect my answer might
be there somewhere - but  I am not sure I can get the behavior
I am looking for since __new__ is static.


Art






From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Mar  4 12:06:53 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 18:06:53 +0100
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
References: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <j4y9h88doy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
> default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
> without drowning. 

Yes, you'll need to unpack all the files manually, then add the
registry entries manually - except the ones where it associates .py
files with the 2.2 executable.

It might be best to do this by copying an existing installation.

Regards,
Martin


From kp87 at lycos.com  Wed Mar 27 05:31:38 2002
From: kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 02:31:38 -0800
Subject: Most efficient unzip - inverse of zip?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203262231570.27212-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <3CA0ECAB.2070900@free.fr> <HBbo8.974$0b.153032@news1.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <5e8bd451.0203270231.2295c7d1@posting.google.com>

# Two unzippers! slightly different. first is from the python cookbook
# (there are 2 there this one was much better than the other, which
was
# slow and not as flexible The second one is from the tutor list and
is
# fast, plus it allows you to grab only certain unzipped portions

# Title:?A function to 'unzip' simple list-like objects 
# Submitter:?gyro funch (other recipes) Last Updated:?2001/08/28 
# Version no:?1.0 
# 
# Description: This function takes a list and pulls it apart into a
# user-defined number of pieces. It acts like a sort of reverse zip
# function (although it deals with only the very simplest cases).
# 
# 	-- Renamed: unlace(), was def unzip(p, n):

def unlace(p, n):
    """Split a list-like object, 'p', into 'n' sub-lists by taking
    the next unused element of the main list and adding it to the
    next sub-list. A list of tuples (the sub-lists) is returned.
    Each of the sub-lists is of the same length; if p%n != 0, the
    shorter sub-lists are padded with 'None'.
        Example:
        >>> unlace(['a','b','c','d','e'], 3)
        [('a', 'd'), ('b', 'e'), ('c', None)]
    """
    (mlen, lft) = divmod(len(p),n)          # find length of longest
sub-list
    if lft != 0: mlen += 1

    lst = [[None]*mlen for i in range(n)]   # initialize list of lists
        
    for i in range(len(p)):
        (j, k) = divmod(i, n)
        lst[k][j] = p[i]

    return map(tuple, lst)


#  Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:01:36 -0500
#  To: tutor at python.org
#  Cc: rob at jam.rr.com
#  From: "Christopher Smith" <csmith at blakeschool.org>
#  Subject: [Tutor] Unzip
#
#  Here's a piece of useless code which extracts lists that have been
zipped
#  together (or mapped together with None: 
#          map(Nane,l1,l2) is the same as zip(l1,l2)

def unzip(l,*jj):
	"""Returns one or more of the elements in the tuples of l that were
zipped together.
	
	This code will unzip lists which have been zipped together.
	If you created a zipped list, l=zip(a,b,c), you can use unzip
	to extract one or more of the lists:
	>>> a=[1,2,3]; b=[4,5,6]; c=[7,8,9]; l=zip(a,b,c)
	>>> x,y,z= unzip(l) 	# get them all: x=[1,2,3], y=[4,5,6], z=[7,8,9]
	>>> y=unzip(l,1)    	# get the 1th one: y as above
	>>> x,z=unzip(l,0,2)	# get the 0th and 2th ones: x and z as above
	"""
	if jj==():
		jj=range(len(l[0]))
	rl = [[li[j] for li in l] for j in jj] # a list of lists
	if len(rl)==1:
		rl=rl[0] #convert list of 1 list to a list
	return rl


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar  4 12:00:33 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 02:00:33 +0900
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <m3pu2orps5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015015924.5220.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ofi42rpq.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Martin> A byte string should certainly be able to store arbitrary
    Martin> bytes. Under Stephen's proposal, it would indeed not be possible
    Martin> anymore to put arbitrary binary data into source code.

This is not clear, but it is certainly the easiest way to deal with
the issue.

    Skip> Just to make sure I understand correctly, under Stephen's
    Skip> propsal would

    Skip>     s = "\xff"

    Skip> be correct?

Correct in the sense that I'm sure it would be accepted.  However, it
would not necessarily be the only way to do it (in fact, it surely
would not).

    Skip>     s = "?"

    Skip> (a literal 0377 character) would be an error, yes?

Assuming you mean that the source file contains eight bytes

0x73 0x20 0x3D 0x20 0x22 0xFF 0x22 0x0A

the parser should reject it, as 0xFF may not occur in a UTF-8-encoded
file.

However, Python would surely provide an optional module to
transparently decode that to UTF-8, before the parser proper sees it.
There would be no reason to write throwaway code in UTF-8 for pretty
much any language that already has codecs.

I'd like to emphasize that the point of my proposal is not to make
life harder for people who are just doing what comes naturally, and it
shouldn't.  AFAICT most of the things that people would like to do
will be just as easy to do under my proposal as under Martin's.

They just won't be sanctioned as part of "true" Python.  It's kind of
like a contract: you can translate it into other languages, but for
the purposes of legal interpretation, there is an original language
which is that of the court with jurisdiction.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 20:57:34 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 03:57:34 +0200
Subject: chat server
In-Reply-To: <3CA4544D.6646CB30@q-survey.be>
References: <B8C97068.C30E%pete@dexterslab.de> <3CA4544D.6646CB30@q-survey.be>
Message-ID: <20020401015734.GD333@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Laurent Szyster <laurent.szyster at q-survey.be> [2002-03-29 12:47 +0100]:
> Henning Peters wrote:
> > 
> > i am planning to write a small chat server that uses select() in
> > python. multiple clients should be able to connect and chat wih
> > each other - like on a normal chatserver, just asynchronous ...
> 
> Don't reinvent the wheel. Use asyncore.py and asynchat.py, it's
> part of the standard Python library.
 
Or SocketServer, also in the standard library. Easiest to use in my experience
is sockserv, which can be found in the Vaults of Parnassus.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 5.9 ?C      Wind: 0.8 m/s



From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Mar  7 01:02:00 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:02:00 +0100
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:15:53 +0100."
             <3C860879.BEC1002B@philips.com>
Message-ID: <E16iqyW-0004o4-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Gerrit Muller <gerrit.muller at philips.com> wrote:

> > > > Another example, the otherwise superb intro to Tkinter,
> > > > http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
> > > > would be vastly more useful if it fit on a single page.
> > >
> > >     Define "page".  If you say 800x600 you'd lose.
> >
> > Good question.  How would you define a page in terms of web design?
> >
> > Eliminating most if not all scrolling on reference pages seems
> > particularly important. Some reference pages seem way too long.  And
> > your point is well taken.  I have a large monitor, but I use relatively
> > big fonts, so I'm only using 1024x768...
> >
> > Edward
> <...snip...>
> at this moment in time 1024*768 is a reasonable choice; the poor 14" CRT
> users will need some scrolling, but all more lucky 15" LCD and 17" CRT
> and above will have a scroll free overview.

You are assuming that everybody is wasting the full screen on the
browser's window. That might be true for the average windows user but
is not true in general. For instance, my monitor displays 1800x1024,
but the browser gets only about 850x650 of that.

IMHO, software/web pages making such assumptions suck.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From lenny_self at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 18:59:01 2002
From: lenny_self at hotmail.com (Lenny Self)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 15:59:01 -0800
Subject: List of Dictionaries
Message-ID: <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550@posting.google.com>

I am having a problem I was hoping someone might be able to help me
with.  I am attempting to append several dictionaries to a list for
further processing, however I am seeing some rather odd behavior.

When I add the first dictionary element to the list all is well.  When
I add the second element to the list both the first and second element
reference the second dictionary that was added.  The behavior
continues whenever I add an element.  So, if I add, say 50
dictionaries, all of the listes elements reference the last dictionary
I added.

I don't have the code with me right now, but I can assure you it is
easy as this:

allMail = [...] # list of mail objects
dictsList = []

for mail in allMail:
     dictsList.append(mail.getData()) # getData returns a dictionary

I have tried this code with both Python 2.1.1 and 2.2.  Same behavior.
 Also, I am positive that each of the objects I attempt to append to
the list are different.

Any suggestions?  Any help would be great.

Thanks.

     -- Lenny


From h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl  Mon Mar 11 03:45:57 2002
From: h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl (husam)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:45:57 +0100
Subject: How do you protect the source code of python applications?
Message-ID: <3C8C6EC5.8080308@student.kun.nl>

hi,
Is there a way to protect the source code of applications written with 
python?



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 25 01:44:07 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:07 +1100
Subject: files and reading from them
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A237@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Avi Homes [mailto:Moo at houston.rr.com]
> 
> I am writing a dictionary to a file, like so
> f.write(str(Info))
[snip] 
> What i would like to do is pull a readline or somesuch.. and 
> have it take in
> the whole thing, and then just let me assign that to a empty 
> name, and turn
> it into a new dictionary.. like say
>  file.seek(1)
> //thats how i'd go to the first place in the file correct?
> X=file.readline()

Look up 'pickle' and 'cPickle' in the python reference.

Tim Delaney



From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Fri Mar  8 08:28:56 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 05:28:56 -0800
Subject: Embedded Python and SWIG shadow classes
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203080528.39a3f395@posting.google.com>

I used SWIG to create some Python shadow classes for my C++ library,
say

MyClass
{
...
};

MyClass myFct();

No I want to call embedded Python code from a C++ program,
i.e. in C++, I call

PyObject* pmod  = PyImport_ImportModule("myclass");
PyObject* pdict = PyModule_GetDict(pmod);
PyObject* p = PyRun_String("myFct()", Py_eval_input, pdict, pdict);

How do I extract the MyClass mc from the PyObject* p?

>From what I can see from the generated myclass_wrap.cxx,
I have to use something like

MyClass* mc;

if ((SWIG_ConvertPtr(p,(void **) &mc, SWIGTYPE_p_MyClass,1)) == -1)
{
 cout << "Not converted" << endl;
}
else
{
 cout << "Converted" << endl;
}

First problems were, however, that SWIG_ConvertPtr and SWIGTYPE_p_MyClass
are unresolved symbols.
So I comnpiled myclass_wrap.cxx with -DSWIG_GLOBAL
and replace SWIGTYPE_p_MyClass by 

_swigt__p_MyClass,

and added some struct definitions and

static swig_type_info _swigt__p_MyClass[] = 
{{"_p_MyClass", 0, "MyClass *"},{"_p_MyClass"},{0}};

to the C++ program calling PyRun_String.

No my code compiles and links, but the output is "Not converted"

What is the usual way to solve this problem?

Helmut


From python at chajadan.net  Fri Mar  1 04:47:47 2002
From: python at chajadan.net (chajadan)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:47:47 -0800
Subject: wxPython error on import
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301014436.00a79ae0@63.118.78.184>

I get this error:

     from wxPython.wx import *
SystemError: C:\Code\22\Objects\listobject.c:88: bad argument to internal 
function

Now, there is no C:\Code\22\ anything on my comp, but maybe you guessed that.

This error generates with or without the .wx on wxPython

I'm on Windows, using python 2.2 and wxPython (Hybrid) for 2.2

hmm....

maybe it's this hybrid thing...

any help, as always, gives me less work to do ;)

--chajadan




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Mar 27 07:11:07 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:11:07 +0300
Subject: overwrite bytes in file
In-Reply-To: <3ca1c344.16256546@news.easynews.net>; from stojek@part-gmbh.de on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 01:05:47PM +0000
References: <3ca1c344.16256546@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <20020327151107.B30084@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 01:05:47PM +0000, Marcus Stojek wrote:
> how can I overwrite certain bytes in a file (Win NT) and
> keep the rest unchanged.

   Just open the file, seek to some position and start writing.

> All open options are truncating the file.

   No, not all. Use "open(filename, 'rb+')".

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Mar  1 13:50:34 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:50:34 GMT
Subject: ANN: experimental patch to allow importing from file-like objects
Message-ID: <3c7fcbe6.7419921@news.t-online.de>

Motivation: Write a customized import that reads data from encrypted
files. Both execfile() and exec() are limited, if only that that they
don't mimic the import syntax. 

Problem: imp.load_module does expect a file object, but you can only
pass "real" files, not file-like objects. The internal C-code expects
native FILE* stuff.

Solution: An experimental patch to the python22.dll that makes this
possible. Using file-like objects for import opens up a whole new set
of possibilities, for example you could fetch the code at runtime from
a database or a socket. 

Limitations: 
- Currently, Win32 only. 
- Currently, you can only import source from file-like objects, not
precompiled binaries. 
- Currently, error handling is completely undefined.

Sample Code:

import imp, os, rotor

# sample code ***************************************
source = """
print 'Inside encrypted code'
variable = 123
"""
# generate encrypted file ***************************
file = open("test.raw","wb")
rt = rotor.newrotor('key', 12)
file.write( rt.encrypt(source) )
file.close()

# sample file class, that reads data from encrypted file
class my_file_class:
    def __init__(self,filename):
        rt = rotor.newrotor('key', 12)
        self.lines = rt.decrypt(open(filename).read()).split('\n')
        print "read", len(self.lines), "lines from encrypted file"


    def read(self,size):
        if self.lines:
            line = self.lines[0]
            # must make sure line ends with \n
            if not line:
                line = '\n'
            elif not (line[-1] == '\n'):
                line += '\n'
            self.lines = self.lines[1:]
            return line

# redirect import hook ******************************
old_import_func = __import__

def my_import_func(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None):
    global old_import_func
    
    if name == "encrypted_test":
        return imp.load_module(name,
                               my_file_class("test.raw"),
                               "test.raw",
                               ('.raw','rb',imp.PY_FILEOBJECT_SOURCE))


    # use original code    
    return old_import_func( name, globals, locals, fromlist )

__builtins__.__import__ = my_import_func

# test code
import encrypted_test
print encrypted_test.variable

Download:
http://p-nand-q.com/python/pyimport.zip

More technical details:
http://p-nand-q.com/pyimport.htm (at the bottom)

Now what? PEP-stuff? Or completely uninteresting? 



From rann-chan at attbi.com  Sun Mar 24 17:32:35 2002
From: rann-chan at attbi.com (Rann Aridorn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:32:35 GMT
Subject: I am TGOS your new ruler
References: <07fcd5f6.3ba05335@tgos.org> <2sjl7a.ap6.ln@hairy.machine.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E5402.7070406@attbi.com>

Sly Mee wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:46:44 -0600, TGOS said:
> 
> 
>>That's right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking,
>>brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I'm taking over all of Usenet! There
>>isn't a fucking thing you can do about it either! You're all a bunch of
>>worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don't like
>>this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet
>>history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your
>>knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self!
>>
>>I AM THE GUARDIAN OF SAILOR MOON! LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!
>>
> 
> .....And High Moron of All You Survey!
> 
> 

Sorry about this. A hipcrimer is trying to cause trouble for 
Alt.Hentai.Sailor-Moon by impersonating one of our regulars. If you care 
to register your displeasure, please do so in the hipcrimer's own 
stomping grounds, alt.mag.hustler

-Rann



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Mar  5 19:32:54 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:32:54 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015361350.28294.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8563B6.1DB3B19@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> I don't have to think that a dict object *is* a sequence to be content with
> it being a valid arg to iter().

Well, more generally, "collection". And I *do* think
of a dict as being a collection -- of key-value pairs.
It's perhaps debatable whether its iterator should
return just the keys or keys+values, but the decision
made here makes perfectly good sense to me. In real
life, it doesn't seem at all odd to ask things like
"Is 'furgleblunger' in the dictionary?"

But if someone asked me "Is 7 in 42?" I'd think
I'd misheard them somehow.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From dragon at china.org  Sat Mar  9 11:29:33 2002
From: dragon at china.org (Qiang.JL)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:29:33 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <7xpu2ex6xz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <NLqi8.84676$aFN.58593@news1.bloor.is>

thanks for your insightful answer , Paul

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xpu2ex6xz.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Qiang.JL" <dragon at china.org> writes:


> That's separate from needing to learn something to be a good
> programmer.  To be a good programmer I think you need a sense of what
> the machine is doing, so you should learn a low level language, but if
> you're just doing it for the sake of learning, you may as well go all
> the way and learn to program in assembly language.  There used to be a
> saying that assembly language programming is good for the soul.
>
> That doesn't mean you should actually try to develop complex programs
> in assembler and make them useful--you should just get some experience
> with it as an exercise, to understand how computer's instruction set
> works and have a sense of what a compiler does.  Once you've done
> that, C will seem very straightforward and logical to you.

oh, assembly language. It's one of my course now :)


> > which one is better to start with ? ( I'm not a program beginner so
python
> > being a beginner programmer maybe not be applied here)
> >
> > How many language do you think one should _master_? I think one or two
is
> > enough.learning others are letting you to learn the language concept and
> > structure etc certainly helpful.
>
> If you're an experienced programmer in other languages, you can learn
> basically everything about Python in a few weeks.  C++ takes longer
> but again, it's just a computer language that some people designed.
> It's not like a spoken language which evolves over thousands of years.
> The thing is, to really understand C++, you have to spend time working
> on multi-programmer projects.  If you only program by yourself, some
> parts of C++ will never make sense to you.

Note that i said to have a couple language to "master"? I really want to
learn
some in depth not just being able to write couple lines. currently these
languages i am going to
dig deeper and know it better.
java  perl  python (maybe C/C++ someday, man i really have the urge to learn
it,as everyone around me saying to get into serious programming, C/C++ is a
must. well, i heard what you said :- )
and there are a lot more i want to learn. popular or useful
....................

Q.




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sun Mar 17 07:58:44 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:58:44 +0100
Subject: mixing regular expression
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:46:11 GMT."
             <D4Wk8.107090$eb.4892148@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <E16maFI-0002nP-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

"Ian McMeans" <imcmeans at home.com> wrote:

> I want one huge regular expression to be composed of a bunch of others
> - is there some way I can include a regular expression inside another?
>
> Or should I do it with strings - just save each regular expression's
> string, and then compile each combination separately?
>
> What I mean is this:
> foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
> bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")
>
> big = re.compile("foo|bar")
>
> is that possible at all? To combine regular expression objects? Or do
> you suggest that I just make strings for foo and bar, and then compile
> the combined strings into big?

>>> import re
>>> foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
>>> bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")
>>> big = re.compile("%s|%s" % (foo.pattern, bar.pattern))
>>> big.pattern
'someregexcode|moreregexcode'

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Tue Mar 19 12:50:51 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 17:50:51 GMT
Subject: Access to shared directories
References: <a6tg6u$69$1@serv1.albacom.net> <ae27bd174b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a77tpr$15cf$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <ae27bd174b.tim at worthy.demon.co.uk>, Tim Howarth wrote:
>
>In message <a6tg6u$69$1 at serv1.albacom.net>
>          "Fabrizio" <facelle at jumpy.it> wrote:

>> I just want to read a .txt file that I have in a shared directory on
>> another PC which is part of a WindowsNT/98 LAN.

>> What path should I use in order to read that file from my PC ?

>\\pcname\sharename\file.txt

	Warning: under Python you'll usually want to specify a
	"raw string" for MS Windows path names:

		r'\\machine\share\filename.ext'

	... otherwise Python's string parser will try to 
	interpret the backslash sequences like \n (newline) \r (return)
	\t (tab) \0xNN (hex character code) \0nnn (octal char. code)
	\\ (one "real" backwack) etc.

	This is an FAQ.  Newbies frequently have trouble with filename
	literals under various MS OSes.  Normal Python strings are 
	delimited with single or double quotes 'foo' or "foo."  However,
	"raw" strings are preceded by a letter r as in r'foo,' R"foo,"
	R'foo' or r"foo."  Newer versions of Python also support unicode
	literals (preceded by a U if I recall correctly).

	BTW: you cannot end a raw string literal with a single \  but
	you can "add" one to a string using the + operator.  Thus

		foo = r'\something\somewhere' + '\\'
		print foo

	... yields:

			\something\somewhere\

>___
> |im    ---- ARM Powered ----


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar  6 18:09:33 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:09:33 +1100 
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1E5@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

>     PEP 276 [4] proposes to allow automatic conversion of integers to
>     iterators, simplifying the most common half-open case but not
>     addressing the complexities of other types of interval.
>     Additional alternatives have been discussed on python-list.

This is incorrect. PEP 276 proposes to make integers iterable. There is a
significant difference, which I have noticed you either not understanding or
ignoring.

I would suggest an amendment to PEP 284 to correct this.

Whilst I like the general idea of PEP 284, I see too many problems with it -
most notable, that it is an attempt to be a general solution (whether the
problem exists or not - I believe it does) without being a general solution
(no step ... though it can be simulated to an extent, different syntax to
traverse in the opposite direction, etc).

Cheers.

Tim Delaney



From netzapper at magicstar.net  Sat Mar  2 12:44:08 2002
From: netzapper at magicstar.net (A. Jones)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:44:08 GMT
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <3c810efa.475638531@mammoth.usenet-access.com>

What is the function that forces conversion to a three-quote string?

I need to save a string that has a LOT of \n's in it, and need to save
both the formatting and the \'ns.

I checked the manuals (and the online lists of functions), and all I
came up with was str(), which doesn't do the tripple quote.  

Thanks
______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Tue Mar  5 02:26:55 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:26:55 +0100
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
In-Reply-To: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 05/03/02 ? 01:41, Robert Oschler ?crivit:
> I've never seen this feature in any programming language I've worked in but
> it can't hurt to ask.  Can an aggregated class object get a reference to the
> class object that aggregates it?  So if ClassAggregator contained an
> instance of ClassAggregatee is there a Python syntax/construct that a
> function in ClassAggregatee could use to get a reference to the instance of
> ClassAggregator that contained it?
 
I've no idea what you're talking about. But this doesn't hinder me from
replying ;-) You want to do something like the following?

import sys, traceback

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        self.b = B()

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        # Determine here from where we're instantiated

a = A()

If this is possible at all, I think it will involve the traceback
module. I can't currently think of a complete solution, though. With
traceback.extract_stack, one could easily determine the line you're
called from, but I can't think of a way to determine the class.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 1.9 ?C      Wind: 0.8 m/s



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 18:32:45 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:32:45 -0800
Subject: seek in a file
References: <a7qujn$n78gl$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3CA1051C.250D3D2E@ccvcorp.com>


Andreas Penzel wrote:

> Hello NG!
>
> How to jump to a specified line in a file which is read-opened?
> With seek() I can jump to an exact position of  the complete file in
> "byte-steps".
> Is seek able to jump to a line-number?
> If not, what else can I do?

seek() won't work well on text-mode files, because the number of bytes
does not necessarily equal the number of characters (due, mostly to /r/n
<-> /n conversions).  I think that the best you can do to jump to a
particular line number would be using readlines()/xreadlines() and
skipping over the initial (undesired) part.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From joekm at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 18:04:11 2002
From: joekm at earthlink.net (Joe)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:04:11 GMT
Subject: Programming Puzzle for you Experts out There
Message-ID: <3c9fa91e.506871@news.earthlink.net>

First a little background:

I'm in the process of writing a fatigue and damage tolerance analysis
program using python.  One of the things the math engine can do is
compute the remaining strength of the material after it has sustained
damage.  However, there are two problems:

1)  Redisual strength is influenced by two competing physical
properties of the metal.  So far, nobody has developed a method for
evaluating the transition between these properties so the conventional
wisdom is to "eyeball" a curve between them.

2)  Sometimes, the damage or fatigue involves a "ligament break", this
will suddenly change the stress field and, not surprisingly, cause a
step change in the residual strength curve.

So here is the problem......

I have two vectors that, when plotted against each other are mostly
smooth with occasional inflection points and step changes.  I want to
keep the step changes but inscribe a smooth arc below the inflection
points that will eventually be tangent to the intersecting curves.

Now, here is the hard part......

To get the boundary conditions, I must sample the vectors "as is".
Re-iterating the numbers to get better data will require me to go back
into the math engine which will suck up processor time.

I've tried 4th order polynomial fits and hyperbolic fits but neither
have been robust enough to track all of the fracture scenarios I've
thrown at it without Gibb's overshoots or other issues.  I have not
tried Fourier or other series fits as of yet.  Probably try that next.

Still working on it....but I'm willing to entertain suggestions. 

Joe


From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 29 15:17:48 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:17:48 -0500
Subject: test_struct.py fails when building Python 2.2 on RedHat 6.2/alpha
In-Reply-To: <HA0p8.22180$26.1468737@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEOHOIAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Mike Carifio]
> I've recently built Python 2.2 on a RedHat 6.2/alpha box.
> When I run the regression test suite ('make test'), test_struct.py
> fails with a floating point exception and stops the regression test
> suite.
>
> Some questions:
>
> 1) Is this a know error or have I discovered something new?

It's news to me.

> I tried to find out if this error was seen before by going to
> the python bugs database ...
> and searching the newsgroup in Google. Are there other sources?

You already found the best.

> I didn't find a good way to search the sourceforge bug tracker for
> specific keywords (like 'test_struct' or 'alpha').

There's a "Search" box in the left margin.  Be sure the dropdown list has
"Bugs" selected.  It turns up 3 test_struct bug reports, all closed.

> 2) Once I take test_struct.py out of the test list, the suite runs to
> completion, but I still have 24 tests that have failed.

Sounds like your installation is a mess.  Open a bug report and attach some
details (like *which* tests failed).

> Are all tests the same?

No.

> For  example, if test_bsddb fails, is my installation bogus or
> should I just shy away from db files on RH6.2/alpha?

It's impossible to guess from what you've said so far -- open a bug report
and people will help there.

> Is there a document or file somewhere that tells me how to interpret
> these results?

No.  The tests are all written in Python, so ambitious <wink> users dig into
them and figure out why they fail.

> 3) And related to (2), is test_struct.py a "mandatory" test?

It tests the struct module.  If you never use the struct module, it probably
doesn't matter whether it fails.  But there's no good reason for it failing,
so it suggests deep problems.  It *sounds* like your build was such a
disaster that you've got severe problems.

> I guess the question I'm asking is: if some of the tests fail, is
> the build to be distrusted? If there's a judgment call to make here, how
> do I inform my judgement?

Sorry, that's up to you.  I personally would not trust a box where any test
failed; tests being skipped is a different issue.




From dubois at users.sourceforge.net  Sat Mar 16 11:35:44 2002
From: dubois at users.sourceforge.net (Paul F. Dubois)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:35:44 GMT
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
Message-ID: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

I am trying to get Python 2.2 to compile on HP-UX B.10.20. I get a set of
missing externals with names PyThread_something. I need threads so I don't
want to turn them off. Is there a package I need to install first? Or some
other hint about what to do?






From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Fri Mar 22 12:53:30 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 17:53:30 GMT
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <slrna9mrss.1os.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Nicolas Chauvat wrote in comp.lang.python:
> [About Mozart] the syntax is... difficult.

That's putting it nicely.

Not that I've done very much besides 'Hello, world' in the Mozart
tutorial, though.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From evil_wicked at ofir.dk  Mon Mar 18 02:44:01 2002
From: evil_wicked at ofir.dk (h_b_jensen)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:44:01 -0000
Subject: Installing CXX: ImportError
Message-ID: <a745s1+4p9s@eGroups.com>

When installing CXX:

1) Untar file in /usr/local
2) cd PyCXXblabla
2) python setup.py install

...this error occurs:

[pos at localhost PyCXX-V5.1-rc2]$ python setup.py install
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "setup.py", line 3, in ?
    from distutils.command.install import install
ImportError: No module named distutils.command.install

Shouldn't distutils be properly installed when you install
Python 2.2 this way:

1) Untar Python-file
2) ./configure
3) make
4) make install

?

Thanks in advance,

Best regards,
Henrik Jensen




From dguest at bigfoot.com  Tue Mar 19 04:44:15 2002
From: dguest at bigfoot.com (David Guest)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:44:15 +1100
Subject: Relieved but disappointed: The Pariah thread
References: <mailman.1016355447.13525.python-list@python.org> 	<5l2c9usr5q536u9ki0vc38jlu6oud859sj@4ax.com> <1016467478.18470.38.camel@ahopkins>
Message-ID: <3C97086F.1030504@bigfoot.com>

marduk wrote:

>LOL
>
>On Mon, 2002-03-18 at 09:48, Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
>[...]
>
>>This easily the most humourless, anal-retentive group I read. 
>>
>>The most daring humour you are likely to get away with is a bit of
>>clearly labelled sarcasm. 
>>
>>Or, for a real belly laugh, string a bunch of words together with
>>hyphens and add '-ly yours' on the end.
>>
>>I gave up ages ago.
>>--
>>Dale Strickland-Clark
>>Riverhall Systems Ltd
>>
I think you meant LOL-ly yours.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Guest
self.reflexion == narcissism
1







From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 20:14:23 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 01:14:23 GMT
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122> <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7r6df$kcb$0@216.39.172.122>

On 23 Mar 2002 22:01:45 -0800, jriveramerla at yahoo.com (Jose Rivera) wrote:

>Thanks for your comments... the site uses POST method, so 
>I saved to disk the page, and modify it to use GET so 
>I could get an idea of the parameters used...
>The URL calculated :
>
>http://avisos.elnorte.com/casa_venta_result.asp?fotos=0&Order=order+by+colonia&Precio_i=-1&Presentacion=Tabla&Precio_f=-1&PLANTAS=0&pagina=1&id_inmueble=3&dia=&RECAMARAS=0&constr_f=-1&COLONIA=0&BANOS=0&Tipo=CASAS&Constr_i=-1&Terreno_i=-1&Terreno_f=-1&zona=0
>
>works on my PC, try it, and let's see whats wrong.
>
>thanks for your time, and comments.
>
>Does anyone have an idea of how I can save it to a DataBase? Is there
>a better way?
>
The best way would probably be to get an account on their database and talk to it
directly over a secure SSL link, and bypass all the web stuff.
Do you think they would go for that?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From theller at python.net  Tue Mar 19 07:45:34 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:45:34 +0100
Subject: py2exe and Tkinter
References: <mailman.1016477010.23588.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a77bts$is63c$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Lindstrom Greg - glinds" <Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1016477010.23588.python-list at python.org...
> Please excuse me if this is not the correct forum, and gently point me to
> the correct list.

c.l.p is ok - there are no mailing lists for py2exe.

>
> I am attempting to create a standalone application that has a GUI generated
> with Tkinter.  I have a myfile.exe that was generated from py2exe, but when
> I try to execute it (both by double clicking and trying to launch it from a
> DOS command line) I get nothing.  Do I need to do anything "special" to my
> all to work?
>
> I'm on Windows 2000 "Professional" using Python 2.2.
>
If you don't see *anything* at all, you should probably try building
a console application first (see the --console flag), so that you
can at least see the tracebacks.

Thomas




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 02:14:13 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 07:14:13 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

(Followup-To set to comp.lang.python, as this doesn't have any
relevance to Java any more)

Ahmed Moustafa wrote in comp.lang.python:
> How about web development? 

A little research of yourself would tell you all you need to know, but
I'm happy to give my informed opinion ;-)

Web development is one area where Python really shines. Almost all of
the Python users I know personally use it for web development.

My biggest webapp was build an online shop system with Python and
MySQL. From scratch, with its one templating system (of course),
dynamic site navigation and all that stuff. Development time was only
some 6 to 8 weeks.

All the rest at http://www.python.org/topics/web/

> Also, how is Python doing in the embedded applications?

It's possible, but people using it for this are certainly a minority
among Python developers.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar 18 05:40:56 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:40:56 +0100
Subject: tkFileDialog.py - opening remote files on a server
Message-ID: <200203181040.g2IAeuiT012032@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

askopenfilename does exactly what I want -- except that I would like
to pass it a known list of files that my server is exporting to my
clients, rather than have it check any directories locally.  It looks
to me as if I have to start grubbing around in Tk -- there isn't anything
in Tkinter I can override.  Before I start doing this I thought I would check
and see if anybody has already done this.

thanks very much,
Laura Creighton



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Thu Mar  7 20:19:55 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:19:55 +0100
Subject: reporting spam? (was RE: 5 dollar emails)
In-Reply-To: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE6BC@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com>
References: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE6BC@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com>
Message-ID: <20020308011954.GA4417@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 07/03/02 ? 16:52, John Schmitt ?crivit:
> What happens with all the spam this group gets?  Does anyone bother
> forwarding it to spam-fighting agencies? [...]

SpamAssassin (one of the few P*rl programs I liked enough to install)
does the spam filtering for me and it does an amazingly good job at it.
The spam (and a few false positives) getted tagged and put in my
caughtspam folder, which I review regularly.

Then, I'll forward all the real spam to spamcop.net, which analyzes the
mails for me (whom to complain to) and sends me a confirmation mail with
URLs to complete the submission. It'll then write emails to the admins
of the relevant ISPs. A few clever mutt settings make this less of a
pain :)

Alas, it doesn't seem to have much effect in that many providers don't
seem to care. In particular, most (I'd say 75 %) of the spam I get
privately and on mailing list comes from Korea. So I'm thinking about
just blocking all mail from a few Korean providers that are particularly
resistant to fighting spammers.

Most spam I get recently comes from these providers
kornet.net (most)
hananet.net
thrunet.com

I've even received German spam sent thru machines on kornet.net :-((

Maybe we should try to talk our providers from blocking all mail from
the major Asian spam sources. This would certainly help build pressure
on these providers by their legitimate users.

If anybody is interested in this topic, this is a more appropriate
newsgroup: news.admin.net-abuse.email. Nevertheless opinions from Python
folks would sure be interesting.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.6 ?C      Wind: 2.5 m/s



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sat Mar  9 17:33:32 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:33:32 -0500
Subject: Tkinter + Button widget
Message-ID: <3c8a93b8$1_3@nopics.sjc>

when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?

    def HideNewClient(self, frame):
        frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
        return

        pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                               text="Search",
                               relief=GROOVE,
                               font=("Tahoma", 10),
                               width=16,
                               command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))

any help would greatly be appreciated.

Adonis




From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 06:54:27 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:54:27 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <a6lknu$8je$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <p30t8uoor948elt8n2huqdk4qlvkq880fn@4ax.com> <a6m4t1$pq7$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <09fu8u4t6rakpg4lotvgpjl3d3h4e80rl5@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:01:16 +0000, Fernando P?rez
<fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Do you mean the array calculation of NumPy?
>
>Yes. A quick example (trivially easy, but shows the point):

[helpful introduction into NumPy snipped...]

Thanks. I see the point, but I don't think that it is possible to fit
my problem directly in this solution. At least I know now the
direction I have to go.

>So again, the morale is: at all costs avoid looping in python in 
>performance-critical parts of the code, once you've reached the optimization 
>stage. In those parts, get creative: weave.blitz, weave.inline, 
>weave.ext_tools, SWIG & friends (SILOON, boost, etc) in order of increasing 
>complexity.

Yes, I started playing with weave. The speed looks really impressive.

Many Thanks,

Martin



From slimey at choc.late.org  Sun Mar 24 17:27:14 2002
From: slimey at choc.late.org (Sly Mee)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:27:14 -0600
Subject: I am TGOS your new ruler
References: <07fcd5f6.3ba05335@tgos.org>
Message-ID: <2sjl7a.ap6.ln@hairy.machine.org>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:46:44 -0600, TGOS said:

> That's right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking,
> brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I'm taking over all of Usenet! There
> isn't a fucking thing you can do about it either! You're all a bunch of
> worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don't like
> this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet
> history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your
> knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self!
> 
> I AM THE GUARDIAN OF SAILOR MOON! LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!

.....And High Moron of All You Survey!

-- 
Well, what was the ham cured OF?

--- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
--- 1,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
--- Access to over 100 Gigs/Day - $8.95/Month
--- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 17 20:21:26 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:21:26 -0600
Subject: Python/JXTA
In-Reply-To: <b1078faa.0203171654.45461a49@posting.google.com>
References: <b1078faa.0203171654.45461a49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15509.16662.13819.451929@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    moxie> It may be a good idea to create Python bindings for JXTA (P2P
    moxie> [peer-2-peer] networking solution from Sun)...

    moxie> http://www.jxta.org/project/www/background.html

    moxie> Just a thought ;)

By our guest.  Once you have something, here's the patch submission page:

    http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470

;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  5 10:10:57 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:10:57 GMT
Subject: Generators and iterators
References: <df3b00ed.0203050706.4487c1bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ueliz2gj0.fsf@python.net>

bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston) writes:

> Hello,
> 
> I just quickly red the page about new features in Python 2.2 and tried - for
> fun - to test it. It must be obvious but I really don't see why, in the
> console transcript below, z.next() send back None and not 1,2 and 3
> whereas it does it correctly 3 times, no more no less.

You forgot a "return".

Cheers,
M.

-- 
39. Re graphics:  A picture is worth 10K words - but only those
    to describe the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be
    adequately described with pictures.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 28 17:40:01 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:40:01 -0800
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA39BC1.59873E78@activestate.com>

> Absolutely. All of Mark's Win32 stuff are pretty much essential to
> many Windows users now, I would guess.
> 
> Updating the distro package would be nice too: Add a few handy
> registry tweaks, such as setting PATHEXT properly, and a nice HTML
> Windows help file (chm) and we'd have a nice slick package.

I'm not going to discourage anyone from learning about installers, but
let me just warn you that it's a lot of work to make a nice installer. 
Tim already spends a lot of time on installers that I for one would
rather see him spend on things that the rest of us can't do =).

ActivePython's new installer does 'feature selection', so you can choose
to install all, some or none of Mark's code; it also does the PATHEXT
tweaks, we have an integrated CHM file which includes a lot of extra
docs (the what's new, the HOWTOs, etc.).

The feature of supporting 'file drops' is one we should definitely look
at adding.  It's very mac-ish (that's a compliment! =).

--david ascher



From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar 10 21:49:45 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 18:49:45 -0800
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
References: <3c8bf3ef@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <3C8C01D2.F9CC7C73@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a6h609$t0g$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3C8C01D2.F9CC7C73 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Short answer: exceptions are not expensive.

And now it's a FAQ:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.104.htp
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 18:56:05 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 18:56:05 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C985678.8010200@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <83vgbqdca2.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Ahmed Moustafa <amoustafa at pobox.com> writes:
> For example, where I work, we have JRE for OS/390 (by IBM). Is there
> a mainframe interpreter for Python? Or, will Jython do?

Jython should do, although I have no experience with it.  I've run the
standard Python interpreter on a 390 (actually a zSeries), but it was
running Linux under VM.

Isn't OS/390 POSIX-compatible these days?  If so, Python shouldn't be
hard to get built on it.  I'd be happy to do it for you.



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 16 23:23:24 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 04:23:24 GMT
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a6tsnr$npd$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016233166.10632.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a715ns$ga9$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100, Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote:
[...]
>
>I concur with Bengt's suggested approach, plus you might want to use
>something like the Porter Stemmer algorithm to convert words to their
>"base" forms eg stepped -> step
>
>See http://www.tartarus.org/~martin/PorterStemmer/python.txt for a
>Python implementation.
>
Any idea on the license status of that? I saw nothing mentioned
in the text itself except and apparent reference to a book.

E.g., if I rewrote it to my taste, could I put the result under PSF
if I wanted to?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 17:47:44 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 22:47:44 GMT
Subject: Deeply embedded Python still alive?
References: <SX1o8.573$vm6.188350@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <a7qtqg$u3f$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:10:10 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>The link I have for the Deeply Embedded Python port
><http://www.abo.fi/~iporres/python/> has been broken for
>several months now.  Anybody know what happened to that
>project?
>
>-- 
>Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I wish I was a
>                                  at               sex-starved manicurist
>                               visi.com            found dead in the Bronx!!

If the author lurks, he may volunteer something? If he doesn't, keep
chopping the tail of the url 'til you get contact info? If you find
something, I'd be interested too. How does it compare to Pippy (linked
on python.org home page)?

Regards,
Bengt Richter
BTW, your sigbot may be calling for help ;-)




From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar 14 01:37:12 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:37:12 -0500
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
In-Reply-To: <a6pcja$9cu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEAOEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

The Source Code is Your Friend.

listobject.c-ly y'rs  - tim



From amuys at shortech.com.au  Mon Mar 25 00:51:13 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 21:51:13 -0800
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203242151.7c45c16b@posting.google.com>

Boudewijn Rempt <boud at valdyas.org> wrote in message news:<3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c at dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>...
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > holger at trillke.net wrote:
> >> 
> >> > >how could you stop a running threading.Thread from the *outside*? of
> >> > >course i could introduce some kind of flag into the event loop of the
> >> > >Thread.run-method, but i really would prefer to have a non-instrusive
> >> > >way for several reasons.
> >> > >
> >> > >Any way to do this?
> >> >
> >> > Not really.  Why do you want to do it?
> >> 
> >> You really want to know it? I am currently working
> >> on (coded) agents which move through the network.
> > 
> > "The network"?  Which one?  The Internet, or an internal
> > network over which you have full control?  Who controls
> > the servers on which these agents will be running?
> > 
> >> But of course i'd sometimes like to shut down some or
> >> all agent-threads.
> > 
> > Run them in a separate process and kill the process when
> > it's "sometime"?  If you can live without individual
> > control.  Maybe you can identify groups of them?
> > 
> 
> Actually, Holger's problem is very well known to people
> implementing agents. Agents run within the application, but
> they don't share objects (not often, anyway), so killing them
> is safe. But neither in Java nor in Python you can easily kill
> them.

This is precisely because your assumption that you can "know" threads
don't share objects is an implementation issue.  One critical problem
is the issue of MT-safe libraries.  In both Java and Python threads
will routinely hold implicit shared locks on shared libraries.  Which
functions in which libraries involve implicit locks is naturally
implementation dependent, often including malloc/free and friends.  As
a result there is no platform independant (and often no platform
dependant) way of knowing the precise coupling between two threads. 
Hence no way of implementing a safe async-kill function.

Note that similar problems exist with processes when they use shared
synchronisation.  Consider the common need to clean up flock/.pid
files after SIGKILL'ing unix daemons.  The crucial difference is that
the higher granuality, and the increased isolation (ie. limited damage
domain) of processes allows for safe clean-up of any resulting mess. 
With the higher coupling of a shared-address space implied by threads,
cleaning up the damage caused by async-kill becomes non-trivial.

Andrae Muys


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Mon Mar 18 15:12:44 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:12:44 -0500
Subject: 2.1.2 install problems on win2k server
References: <Eyrl8.581$Mx3.132235@news1.iquest.net>
Message-ID: <EPrl8.582$Mx3.132246@news1.iquest.net>

going back to as212 seems to have corrected these problems.  any ideas whay
that would have happened?


"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:Eyrl8.581$Mx3.132235 at news1.iquest.net...
> I uninstalled activepython 212 and installed python 2.1.2 and win32all 145
> on Windows 2000 Server.  There are 2 (maybe 3) problems.
>
> 1. active server pages won't work, but if i change the source code (even
> just adding a space somewhere) then the page will work once.  it won't
work
> again until i change the source again.
>
> 2. Typing python from a command prompt does not start python.  Double
> clicking icons works fine, however.
>
> 3. Pythonwin loads now, but for a while (until a reboot) gave DDE errors
> when it was started.
>
> any ideas?
>
> thanks,
>
> doug
>
>




From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Sun Mar 24 13:00:00 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:00:00 GMT
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Auon8.67649$2q2.5676224@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list at python.org>,
holger at trillke.net wrote:
>> >how could you stop a running threading.Thread from the *outside*?
[SNIP]
> Is the questions actually strange in any way? Like something
> you wouldn't usually like to do?

Yeah, killing a thread that's in unknown state can create all kinds
of problems (was it holding locks?  Is data it was accessing in a 
consistent state?  etc...).  It's pretty widely regarded as a Bad
Idea.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 19 12:51:51 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:51:51 -0800
Subject: [wxPython 2.3.1] what's going on?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCENHOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <a775l6$kro$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCENHOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020319095151.77be1beb.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:03:26 -0500
Tim Peters wrote:

> [Pawel Oleksik]
> > Playing with wxPython modules I've found something -- perhaps bug.
> > Importing from wxPython.wx changes the calculation rules.
> > Here is an example (strictly based on the random.py self-verification):
> for more clues; it may or may not be a GTK bug, and the most frequently
> suggested cure (I haven't tried it) is to do

 
> import locale
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
> 
> after importing stuff from wxPython.wx.

This is done automatically in wxPython 2.3.2.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Sun Mar 10 12:04:57 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:04:57 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <YmMi8.174651$7a1.14964168@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
> C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
> that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
> Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
> Or were you thinking strictly from the "job market pragmatism" POV?

I was thinking of overall "coping with code you have to deal with in
the real world" pragmatism, which is good for the job market not
just from the "add to my resume" standpoint but also the "now I have
to fix/alter this 50,000 line java/perl/C++ system" POV.  

Though it's often quicker to rewrite those in 5,000 lines of Python <.5 wink>.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Thu Mar 14 14:32:16 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:32:16 -0700
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <mailman.1016070084.23003.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6qu4r$2q5$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

[Bengt Richter (maybe)]
[Nope (that was me)]
> If your lists are really long (O(100,000) or more?) then you might find
> that the append starts taking too long -- append is asymptotically
> O(n**n)

[Here's Bengt Richter's response (at least, it wasn't mine)]
> whoa! can that be true?

[timbot (perhaps)]
> No, theoretical worst case is O(n**2).  (1 + 2 + 3 + ... + n == ?)

[Andrew Dalke (certainly)]
> Yes, it's true.

Oops!  I didn't notice the n**n -- I either read it as n*n or n**2,
so didn't catch the error in my proofing.


[timbot (again)]
> but over-allocation is always proportional to list size now.

[Me (who might be Andrew)]
> Best I think would be a standard module of data structures (priority
> queue, doubly-linked lists, stack, etc.)  But it hasn't bothered
> me enough to go ahead and do it.

[PSU member #2 again ... if there was a PSU, which there isn't.  (Who is #1?
    You are #6 :)]
> Guido doesn't go for this kind of thing:  the more "advanced" the data
> structure, the more specialized variants it sprouts, and there aren't
enough
> volunteers to maintain the ever-bulging code across all the platforms
Python
> runs on.

I was thinking of standard more like mxStack or kjbuckets.  Something
which wasn't a standard part of the distribution but was the standard
answer to questions about data structures.

                    Andrew (who might still be Andrew)
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar 23 00:10:59 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:10:59 -0600
Subject: Packaging tool
In-Reply-To: <20020323011656.67443.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <a7gi2h$4mk$1@norfair.nerim.net>
        <20020323011656.67443.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15516.3683.885894.797572@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>


    mohamed> By a packaging tool I do not mean a make utility. I have in
    mohamed> mind some thing like dpkg, the Debian package management
    mohamed> system. (but I would like to have it in python).

Check out the catalog-sig at

    http://www.python.org/sigs/catalog-sig/

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From edream at tds.net  Sat Mar  9 10:54:28 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:54:28 GMT
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net>
Message-ID: <3C8A3032.EC94F229@tds.net>

I'd like to say a few more words about the proposed logger class.  These
will be my last words on this subject.

No other Python Module does as little, in essence, as would the logger
class.  Indeed, the heart of the proposed logger class is:

  if self.isEnabledForLevel(level):
    self.put(aString)

If the logger class used dynamic tracing, its essence would be:

  if self.tracePointMatchesDict(tracepoint):
    self.put(aString)
	
A logger class should reflect the simplicity of the problem.  Forget
convenience methods: it is trivial to define them in any scenario. 
Forget control flow, levels, loggers and configuration: dynamic tracing
suffices. Forget handlers, just provide a "put" method that can be
overridden in subclasses.

IMO, the present logging proposal is bad design because it solves an
easy problem in a complex way, like using a sledge hammer to kill a
fly when a fly swatter is readily at hand.  Regardless of precedents, a
logger class would clash with Python's usual elegance.  If the logging
class is going to exist, keep it simple and base it on dynamic tracing.

For an example of a simple dynamic tracing function that is more useful
than the proposed logging class, see the trace function and its allies
init_trace and get_Sherlock_args in leoUtils.py:
  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/leo/leo/leoUtils.py
Extensive comments precede the get_Sherlock_args routine, which BTW
easily provides configuration.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 06:44:56 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:44:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Voss 1/f noise algo help
References: <5e8bd451.0203080150.44a259ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6a87o$935$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

kevin parks wrote:

> Hi I have a couple of attempts below at the beginnings of a 1/f^2
> Noise generator. It is in a sort of heavily commented psuedo Python
> (somewhat translated from PASCAL) You can see that there are some
> areas where i am in way over my head.  I may have introduced a mistake
> or two as well. Anyone familiar with Voss's algorithym want to help
> smooth out the rough edges here? It sure would be nice to be able to
> generate pink noise values in Python (brownian noise would be good
> too, I am trying  to work something up on that too).

I'm not familiar with this Voss algorithm, but I did write code to 
generate fractional noise in C++ a while back.  It can be a lot simpler 
than what you're writing.  Here's the important function, converted into 
pseudo-Python:

def fractionalNoise(beta, nPoints)
  """return noise with frequency spectrum 1/f**beta or something"""
  randomGenerator = Gauss()
 
  # initialize in the frequency domain
  data = []
  for i in range(nPoints):
    amplitude = ((i+1)**(-0.5*beta))*gauss()
    phase = 2*math.pi*rand()
    data.append((amplitude*math.cos(phase), amplidude*math.sin(phase)))
  
  return FFT(data)

You need three magic functions:

gauss() returns a random number according to a Gaussian distribution with 
a standard deviation of 1.  random.gauss looks suspiciously relevant

rand() is the usual random number between 0 and 1.  Must be possible.

FFT() is a fast fourier transform.  There should be one in either Numeric 
or Scientific Python.  I'm not sure exactly what the result means, but 
both real and complex parts sound like noise.

I think the standard libary includes routines for writing .wav files.  
Happy hunting!


                   Graham

      <http://www.microtonal.co.uk/>



From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 11 07:54:15 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:54:15 +0000
Subject: Newbie Import two coloums of floating point data into python HOWTO
In-Reply-To: <7eb201fc.0203110422.1e9c7dec@posting.google.com>
References: <7eb201fc.0203110422.1e9c7dec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020311125415.GB8670@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 04:22:48AM -0800, Andybee wrote:

> Can some one tell me how to import two coloumns of data in a ascii
> text file,into two arrays in python? I cant seem to work it out. The
> data is genereated in matlab and I want to import it into python

Let's say you data looks something like this:

1.0   5.0
2.0   10.2
3.1   13.4

etc.

Then here's one answer...  There are probably cleverer and more
efficient ways of doing this, but this one's pretty easy to understand
and so hopefully more suited to a newbie... :-)

I'm also not _quite_ answering your question, because you asked how to
get two seperate lists, one per column, whereas what this does is
return a list of tuples (one tuple per data line), which is how _I'd_
do it.  ;-) Easy to change to your way, anyway.

def foobar(filename):

    # We'll return a single list, consisting of 2-element tuples, one
    # per line in the data file.

    results = []

    # Open the input file and read the lines.  Note that this reads
    # them all in before continuing, and so would be unsuitable for a
    # large file.  Possible alternatives would involve using
    # readline() or xreadlines(), the investigation of which is left
    # as an exercise to the reader.  :-)
    
    input = open(filename)
    lines = input.readlines()

    # Now iterate over the lines, populating the result
    
    for line in lines:
        
        if not line.strip():
            # Skip blank line
            continue

        # Split the line up, convert the values to floats, add it to
        # the result set.
        
        (first, second) = line.split()
        row = (float(first), float(second))
        results.append(row)

    return results

BTW, if you haven't seen it yet, I'd heartily recommend that you work
through the python tutorial at:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

This contains everything you'd need to answer your question/understand
the above, and a whole lot more.

HTH,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 22:55:01 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:55:01 -0500
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
References: <mailman.1015813998.9833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8C2A95.C3C754AC@engcorp.com>

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> 
> How do you handle errors in
> C?  You check the return value of every function call.  This
> is what Python does, and it's how Python implements
> exceptions, too.  This is the major cost of exception-handling
> in Python:  checking every return value.  (Good C++ compilers
> cleverly avoid this cost; Python doesn't, alas.)  

Bad C programmers cleverly avoid this cost, too. :-)

-Peter


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 17:36:12 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:36:12 +0000
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net> <3C8A3032.EC94F229@tds.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8l3is.2sc.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:54:28 GMT, Edward K. Ream <edream at tds.net> wrote:
>I'd like to say a few more words about the proposed logger class.  These
>will be my last words on this subject.
>
>No other Python Module does as little, in essence, as would the logger
>class.  Indeed, the heart of the proposed logger class is:
>
>  if self.isEnabledForLevel(level):
>    self.put(aString)
>
>If the logger class used dynamic tracing, its essence would be:
>
>  if self.tracePointMatchesDict(tracepoint):
>    self.put(aString)
>	
>A logger class should reflect the simplicity of the problem.

I feel this way too.

Logging is simple enough in concept that it is probably just as easy
to implement it from scratch in one's own project as to use an API
which, because it tries to pack lots of functionality in, is rather
complex to learn.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 10:48:32 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:48:32 +0000
Subject: Relieved but disappointed: The Pariah thread
References: <mailman.1016355447.13525.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5l2c9usr5q536u9ki0vc38jlu6oud859sj@4ax.com>

Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote:

>While I was much relieved that Mark Hammond took my mischievous "Has
>Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?" post with the good humour for
>which that noble, heterogenous breed of people known as Aussies are
>justly renowned, I was a bit disappointed that no-one at all commented
>on the pictorial reference which I gave to sum up my view of the
>.NETification of Python:
>http://www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/010250100.html
>

Bad luck. 

This easily the most humourless, anal-retentive group I read. 

The most daring humour you are likely to get away with is a bit of
clearly labelled sarcasm. 

Or, for a real belly laugh, string a bunch of words together with
hyphens and add '-ly yours' on the end.

I gave up ages ago.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 14 16:53:10 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 22:53:10 +0100
Subject: GC thread safe?
References: <x73cz2etus.fsf@linux.local>
Message-ID: <m3bsdqyfy1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dieter Maurer <dieter at handshake.de> writes:

> Several Zope users face crashing Python 2.1.2 (SIGSEGV inside
> the garbage collector). The problem only occurs when
> the following conditions are true:
> 
>   *  Zope runs in multi-threaded mode
> 
>   *  the cyclic garbage collector is not deactivated
> 
> Is the cyclic garbage collector known to be thread safe?

The garbage collector runs while having the GIL, so it does not need
to be thread-safe. The only exception is when the garbage is cleared;
at this time, the collector holds an exclusive list of the garbage,
clearing one object after another. In principle, this may invoke the
garbage collector again (even from another thread). At that point,
the collector manipulates a list it has exclusive access to.

So yes, the cyclic garbage collector is thread-safe.

Regards,
Martin


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Mar  5 09:56:42 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 06:56:42 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <3C844811.AEC974E3@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <a62mba$peb$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3C844811.AEC974E3 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>,
Greg Ewing  <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>To me, the __iter__ protocol is intended to be used when an object can
>reasonably be thought of as a sequence.  That's actually *being* a
>sequence, not just "associated" with a sequence in some way.
>
>Using the __iter__ protocol in the way suggested by this PEP is abusing
>it, in my opinion.

Yes, particularly when I repeat myself and use this example:

    if i in 5:

<shudder>
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From compexams at directvinternet.com  Tue Mar  5 02:26:24 2002
From: compexams at directvinternet.com (Computer Exams Info)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 02:26:24 -0500
Subject: swap
Message-ID: <Xns91C8E949EF9Acompexamsdirectvinte@216.227.56.89>

If you know you have some stuff very useful that I haven't, we can swap.
There are my collected stuff:

CIW (Certified Internet Webmaster) STUDY PACKAGE 
CIW Foundations (365pages, pdf, 4Mb)
CIW Study Guides: Foundations, Internetworking, JavaScript, Perl, Security 
Professional, Server Admin, Website Design, E-commerce Designer, Application 
Developer. 
Exam Bible:
1D0-410 CIW Foundations (121 Questions and Answers)
1DO-420 CIW Site Designer (81 Questions and Answers)
1DO-425 E-Commerce Designer (80 Questions and Answers) 
1DO-450 CIW Server Administrator (84 Questions and Answers)
1DO-460 Internetworking Professional (83 Questions and Answers) 
1DO-470 Security Professional (50 Questions and Answers) 
Boson Selftest Software 
CIW e-Commerce Test #1, 2 
CIW Foundations Test #1, 2, 3 
Ciw Internetworking Professional Test #1 
CIW Javascript Test #1 
CIW Security Professional Test #1, 2 
CIW Server Administrator Test #1 
CIW Site Design Test #1, 2 
Master CIW Administrator Test #1

compTIA A+ Network+ Server+ Certification Study Package
Offer all the information that students and professinals need to prepare for 
the A+ Network+ Server+ Certification Exams. Published in 2001. ebooks(full 
version for each certification), worksheets, selftest sofware.
Lab Exercises: There are 44lab exercises for you to master. Each lab begins 
with a set of objectives to be achieved throuh the procedure and a list of 
items required to carry out the procedure. Icons are employed throughout 
each procedure to describe its mature. Each procedure ends with a set of 
lab-specific questions designed to permit students to assess their 
understanding of the lab. 
Reference Shelf: These articles provide in-depth technical information about 
a perticular topic mentioned in the Training Guide. These are referred to in 
the margin notes in the book.
Very esay to understanding with interactive video training.

Microsoft Certification MCSD Training Materials
New rider training guide:
MCSD VB6 exams Cover 70-175, 70-176 (pdf,1245pages,13mb)
MCSD Solution Architectures exams 70-100 (pdf,816pages,17mb)
70-015 Designing Implementing Distributed Applications with VC++6.0
real exam questions(a lot), bibles
70-175 Designing Implementing Distributed Applications with VB6.0
real exam questions(a lot), bibles, selftest software, MS Press training kit 
(.chm, 4mb) 
70-016 Designing Implementing Desktop Applications with VC++6.0
real exam questions(a lot),bibles, MS Press training kit(.chm,9mb)
70-176 Designing Implementing Desktop Applications with VB6.0
real exam questions(a lot), bibles, selftest software, MS Press training kit 
(.chm, 3mb) 
70-029 Implementing SQL7.0
real exam questions(a lot), bibles, selftest software, MS Press training kit 
(.chm, 5mb) 
70-229 Design and Implementing SQL 2000
exam note, Microsoft Press training kit(4mb)
70-100 Analyzing Requirements Defining Solution Architectures
real exam questions(a lot), bibles, selftest software, MS Press training kit 
(.chm, 5mb) 
Lab system(Windows 2000 Server + SQL 7.0 + Visual Studio .net)

Microsoft Certification MCDBA Training Materials
70-028 Administering SQL7.0
easy cram bible, real exam questions(a lot), selftest software
70-029 Implementing SQL7.0
easy cram bible, real exam questions(a lot), selftest software
70-228 Administering SQL 2000
exam note, 
70-229 Design and Implementing SQL 2000
exam note, Microsoft Press training kit(4mb)
70-215 Windows 2000 Server
easy cram bible, real exam questions(a lot), Microsoft Press training kit
(11mb) Sybex training guide(8mb), troytech, selftest software(a lot)
70-216 Windows 2000 Network Infrastructure
easy cram bible, real exam questions(a lot), new riders training guide
(608pages, pdf), Microsoft Press training kit(6mb), troytech, Sybex(13mb), 
selftest software(a lot)
Lab system(Win2k + SQL7)

Microsoft Certification Training Materials(MCSE)
Cover Exam Number: 70-058, 70-059, 70-067, 70-068, 70-073, 70-210, 70-215, 
70-216, 70-217, 70-219, 70-220, 70-221, 70-222, 70-227, 70-240. 
More than 500 simulated exam questions for each test.
Official Training Books(more than 100):
Cover Microsoft Curriculum, Microsoft Press, New Riders, Sybex, Troytech, 
Easy Cram Bible, Cool Cram Bible, and so on. 
a lot of Self-test software

OCP Oracle 8i 9i DBA Study Package.
1. Training books(More than 100) Oracle official training materials, sybex 
study guide and so on.
M06268-9 oracle8 backup recover,
M06291-3 oracle8 database administration, 
M08944-6 introduction to oracle sql plsql, 
M09005-8, enterprise dba part 1A arch&admin, 
M09095-8 Enterprise dba part1B backup&recover, 
M09125-6 emterprise dba part 3 Network admin, 
M9213-6 enterprise dba part 2 performance tuning, 
M083567-8 oracle 8i new features for administrators 
Oracle SQL/PLSQL, 9i PLSQL, Database Administration, Backup and Recover, 
Application Server, Parallel Server, Enterprise DBA, Data Warehouseing 
Fundamentals, Financial Analyzer for Admin, XML Develop Applications, R11i 
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3. Boson software: V4.18 for DBA 
4. Oracle DBA Reference
DBA Performance Tuning Experts
Initialisation Parameter List
Parallel Server Configuration Guide for UNIX
Admin for SCO UNIX
Oracle 8i Upgrade Guide
Installation Guide for Sun
Admin Guide for Sun
Installation Guide for SCO UNIX
Installation Guide for Red Hat
Installation Guide for Linux
Performance Tips on UNIX
DBA Mentor
Common UNIX Commands
Teach yourself SQL 
Using Oracle 8 
5. Oracle 8i Documentation Library
?Oracle8i Server and Data Warehousing, Release 8.1.6 
?Oracle8i Server Application Development 
?Oracle8i Server Networking and Security, Release 8.1.6 
?SQL*Plus, Release 8.1.6 
?Oracle8i interMedia, Spatial, Time Series, and Visual Information Retrieval 
Options, Release 8.1.6 
?Oracle8i Java Developer's Documentation, Release 8.1.6 
?Oracle WebDB, Release 2.2 
6. Oracle 8i 9i software 

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Developer PL/SQL, Developer/2000 build forms I, Developer/2000 build forms 
II, Developer/2000 Build Reports 
2. Self Test software: 1Z0-101, 1Z0-121, 1Z0-122, 1Z0-123 

Citrix Certification Study Package
CCA Training Sheet
Citrix Metaframe1.8 Administrators Guide(169 pages pdf)
Citrix Metaframe1.8 Installation Guide(211 pages pdf)
Citrix Metaframe1.8 for 2000 Servers Administrators Guide(158 pages pdf)
CCA Exam Questions and Answers(80)
Citrix Metaframe1.8 software

Novell Certification Training Materials (CNE NetWare 5)
Complete coverage of six CNE exams
Covers all the required core exmas:
Networking Technologies(50-632), NDS Design and Implementation(50-634), 
Service and support(50-635), Netware 5 Administration(50-639), NetWare 
Advanced Administration(50-640), the intraNetWare: Integrating Windows NT 
elective(50-636)
Includes more than 450 challenging practice exam questions.
Self-test software

CCNP(Cisco Certified Network Professional) bscn640-503 bcmsn640-504 
bcran640-505 cit640-506 Exam Package
Official Training Book:
2 brands of each exam
Building Scalable Cisco Networks
Building Cisco Multilayer Switched Networks 
Building Cisco Remote Access Networks 
Cisco Internetwork Troubleshooting 
Exam Questions:
More than 500 questions for each exam (Practical Exam Questions and Answers, 
Actual Exam Questions from examinees.)
Self-test software 
Software Router Simulator

Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA) Exams Package
Training books:
CCNA2.0 Prep Kit 640-507 Routing and Switching
CCNA2.0 Study Guide
Cisco Router
EasyCCNA Exam Bible
Network Associate STUDYME
Exam Questions:
True exam questions deriving from examinees and Practical Exam Bibles (more 
than 30 sheets)
Self-test software 
Interactive Router-Simulated Training 


CCIE Written Exam 350-001 Package
Network Design and Case Studies with the three types of networks (campus, 
wide area, and remote connections), researching Asynchronous Transfer Mode 
(ATM), Internet Protocol (IP), and Switched LAN, and the equipment and 
protocols best suited for those situations.such as Routing Information 
Protocol (RIP) and Open Shortest Path First (OSPF) redistribution, reducing 
Service Advertising Protocol (SAP) traffic in Novell Internetwork Packet 
Exchange (IPX) networks, and User Datagram Protocol (UDP) broadcast 
flooding--and propose configuration solutions to fix them. 
Cisco System Case Studies
International Network Services CCIE Study Materials
Exam Bible For CCIE Written Exam
(ATM, DLSw, BGP, Appletalk, TokenRing)
Seventyone labs study for CCIE
Exam questions SHEETS: CCIE (350-001)

Lotus Notes Domino R5 Certification Exam Guide
Published at June 2001.
Offer all the information that students and professinals need to prepare for 
the Notes Domino R5 Certification Exams.
Selftest Software over 300 questions
Very esay to understanding with interactive video training.

Check Point Certification CCSA CCSE
Check Point Certified Security Administrator 
- CCSA Training Book for CP2000(410pages, pdf, 7mb)
VPN-1/FireWall-1 Management I - CP 2000 is an introductory course for Check 
Point's flagship product, VPN-1/FireWall-1. This course covers the basic 
steps involved in setting up an Internet firewall, and provides hands-on 
training to manage a FireWall-1 installation.
Check Point Certified Security Expert 
- CCSE Training Book for CP2000(520pages, pdf, 7mb)
VPN-1/FireWall-1 Management II - CP 2000 offers comprehensive training to 
implement and deploy VPN-1/FireWall-1 in an enterprise environment. In this 
course, you will acquire the skills necessary to set up a VPN and resolve 
complex security issues.
Real Exam Questions(more than 600)
Reference Cover CP2000&NG (more than 100)
On Installation, Configuration, Management, Application, Solution, Case 
Tutor and Tips. 
Boson Selftest Software (Full version, not demo, retail price more than 
$300)
CCSA test #1.2.3, CCSE test #1.2.3, CCAE test #1
Lab system of VPN-1/FirWall-1 4.1(CP2000)

SUN Certification Study Package

This auction cove all of the SUN mircosystems Certification, includes 
training books, bibles, Software Tutor, Selftest Software. For more 
information, please email me.

SCJP(SUN Certified Java 2 Programmer)
SCJD(SUN Certified Java 2 Developer)
SCAJ (SUN Certified Enterprise Architect for J2EE) 
SCSA 7, 8, (SUN Certified Solaris Administrator)

more than 100 Training Books
- Java Programming Language, Java Programming Language Workshop, Solaris 
Network Administration, Solaris 2.6, 7, 8, Administration, Operating 
Enviroment Network Admin, Enterprise JavaBeans. Programming, Mastering 
Enterprise the Java. 2 Platform Enterprise Edition and so on.


 



From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar  6 10:58:21 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:58:21 GMT
Subject: Flushing stdout with raw_input - BUG
References: <q0ph8.54$_Z4.217@news.hananet.net> <un0xl4w2a.fsf@python.net> <Dsqh8.57$_Z4.284@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <uit894rdg.fsf@python.net>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:

> Michael Hudson scribbled with his keyboard:
> > Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:
> > 
> >> I will write
> >> another bug report about the unresponsiveness to bug reports as well, as
> >> there are a lot of bugs that aren't even addressed at sourceforge.
> > 
> > Oh, that will help, sure.
> 
> It is a bug. There needs to be a fix for it. Do you need more volunteers? 
> How do we get involved? Where do we sign up? What needs to be done? Maybe 
> there needs to be more coordination and less coding at the top.

Here I was just trying to point out the irony of a bug report saying
"there are too many bug reports".

> I did a semi-thorough investigation on the matter, and there really isn't 
> much information on how I make the move from being a python user to a 
> developer. Apparently it's by invitation only. Do I just keep submitting 
> bugs and patches and opinions and eventually someone will notice me

More or less, yes.

> or do I have a place where I can stand up and say, "HEY! I WANT TO
> HELP! WHAT DO I DO?"

I think you'll find shouting only annoys people.

> > Please note that Python is a volunteer effort.  You have no right to
> > expect bug reports to be attended to.
> > 
> 
> I can expect what I want. I have no right to see my expectations fulfilled, 
> unless I do the fulfilling.

Yeah, whatever.

> I understand that it is a volunteer effort. I am constantly appreciative of 
> the effort you and others are putting into it. 
> (http://sf.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=154889)
> 
> However, we can't go around saying Python is substandard because it is a 
> volunteer effort. We should be saying we are held to a higher standard 
> because we are a volunteer effort. Unlike Java or C#, we actually have to 
> perform, because we don't have a huge advertising fund and pushy 
> salespeople.
> 
> >
> > However, they are.  I know *I* scan through open bugs fairly
> > regularly.  Martin von Loewis does the same.  I can only fix the bugs
> > I have time to fix, and so fix the bugs that seem to me to be worth
> > fixing.  I've spent multiple hours in just the past few days with my
> > head stuck deep in the Python internals, and TBH posts like this do
> > not make me think it was worth it.
> > 
> 
> The way I was tutored was that getting a bug report was a *good* thing. 

A good bug report is a good thing.  I don't know if you realised it,
but your reports seemed to me to have a somewhat aggrieved, almost
aggressive, tone.  That is no help in a bug report.

> Anybody who thinks there are no bugs or few bugs should be shot. A
> programmer should appreciate a well-written bug report 

As Tim Peters once said, this editor doesn't go backwards :)

> because it helps improve the code and lets him spend more time
> coding and less time testing.
> 
> I tried to be strikingly clear, because this has been brought up
> before and it seemed to have been regarded as unimportant. I wanted
> to emphasize that at least in my opinion it is important, and
> shouldn't be shoveled off to the side.

Fair enough.  I think you may have gone unecessarily far in this
direction.

> And TBH, are you doing this for yourself or for us? If you are doing
> it for us lusers who are unappreciative and consistently complaining
> and calling features bugs, then I am surprised you are still around.

I'm doing it to make Python a better product.

> > If you are interacting with a subprocess that is expecting to talk to
> > a user, you should probably be using pseudo-tty's.
> >
> 
> That is a very good answer that I didn't think of. I did a search on Google 
> and came up with the expect module for python located at 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/expectpy/ 
> 
> Still, not quite what I was looking for, but since C seems to do exactly 
> what Python is doing, then maybe I need to help them at pyexpect and forget 
> about making Python behave differently from C. That way, there won't be 
> that nasty gotcha when they go and run a C program. I think I'll stop 
> complaining about raw_input and start working with the expectpy group.

If you'd been a little more dispassionate in your first post
(e.g. "I'm having this problem ... is it a bug that python does it
this way? ... is there a better way?") you might have got this answer
without me spending way too long thinking about the philosophies of
open source delevopment.  Or maybe you'd have got that anyway -- I
seem to be unusually cranky today :)

pseudo-terminals aren't the easiest things in the world to use.  Just
caring about linux probably makes life easier.  If you have problems,
I'm sure help can be found here...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ZAPHOD:  You know what I'm thinking?
    FORD:  No.
  ZAPHOD:  Neither do I.  Frightening isn't it?
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 11


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 27 15:29:47 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:29:47 -0500
Subject: Linux-related help
References: <mailman.1017252163.2262.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7ta3r$h4i$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017252163.2262.python-list at python.org>,
Susan Williams  <susan at mars.provis.com> wrote:
>
>We are attempting to port from Solaris to Linux, and I'm having some
>unpleasant malloc/free problems at exit (sys.exit).  We have running
>software based currently on 1.5.2.  We're compiling on Linux with gcc
>3.0.3 (on Solaris we were using Sun's compiler, not gcc, I think).
>
>Unfortunately I have a 3rd party module I'm linking with python that
>is rather ancient.  We first got it when using python 1.3, we "ported"
>it to 1.5.2, and I can't quite pin down whether it is the root of the
>problem or not, perhaps it is doing something not quite kosher.  (The
>idea of trying to get it running with 2.1 gives me the willies, but
>that is not really today's issue.)
>
>Anyone out there using Linux especially with 1.5.2 is this ringing any
>bells?  On exit, python is clearing the list of modules, each module
>is clearing dictionary entries by setting them to None, and it is the
>decref that is blowing up.  It is not always in the same place, but it
>is always in the code that is setting a dictionary value to None and
>deleting whatever was there before.

Ooooo, yuck.  My memory says that changing the way modules get unloaded
is one of the big changes post-1.5.2.  I have little actual experience
with extensions; hopefully somebody who does will respond, but consider
this a suggestion to start looking into upgrading.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar 13 15:54:06 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 20:54:06 GMT
Subject: Another socket/thread question
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net> <mailman.1016045723.18584.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6oe9e$2pj0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net>:
| On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:37:29 -0800
| Ken wrote:

|> I've got a thread that continously listens to a socket, and reports what it
|> receives. Blocking is turned on, and I would like it to stay that way since
|> the only thing the thread has to do, is listen to the socket.
|> 
|> My question is when the socket needs to be closed (program shuts down, or
|> that user is being disconnected by the server) is it possible to interupt a
|> socket.recv ()?
|> 
|> If not, whats the easiest way to cut processor time from looping endlessly
|> with blocking turned off?
|
| You might try using select() with a reasonable timeout period.  Then you
| won't busy loop, but you'll be able to check every few seconds to see if
| some condition is set that would indicate a program exit.
|
| Alternatively, you could have your shutdown function send something to the
| socket itself which would indicate to the thread that it should exit.  Or
| even some irrelevant data followed by a test on whether the thread should
| exit (the data would never be processed so what it is would be unimportant
| - it's used simply to cause socket.recv to return).

Or a new socket or pipe could be assigned for this purpose, since the
beauty of select is that it can monitor multiple descriptors.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 28 09:32:18 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:32:18 -0600
Subject: Very small zlib/svg problem
In-Reply-To: <20020328153415.D11101@phd.pp.ru>
References: <a7te9u$kah$1@news.hccnet.nl>
        <15522.19213.655102.927935@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
        <20020328153415.D11101@phd.pp.ru>
Message-ID: <15523.10610.795037.152703@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "w")
    Oleg>                      ^^ this suggests to use binary modes for binary files:
    Oleg>       f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "wb")

Agreed.  (I'm a Unix weenie, so this "b" stuff isn't second nature to me.)
This occurred to me later.  It seems to me that since all gzip files will be
binary, the gzip module should transparently append a "b" to the mode if
it's not given.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 21 20:56:30 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:56:30 -0800
Subject: Execute external program
References: <3c9a7d0e_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <a7e3c1$kldi4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Jamie Carl" <jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c9a7d0e_1 at news.iprimus.com.au...
> Hopefully this is a simple question.  How can I get python to execute
an
> external program such as 'bash' or whatever?
> Is there a line of code that will do this.  No interface with STDIO
needed
> so i can run blind.
>

C:\>python
ActivePython 2.1, build 210 ActiveState)
based on Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 19 2001, 10:28:27) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> os.system('dir')
 Volume in drive C is DISK2PART01
 Volume Serial Number is 36C1-7E27

You should also look into spawn and pipe variants.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From widera at zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl  Thu Mar  7 17:39:12 2002
From: widera at zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl (Adam Widera)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:39:12 +0100
Subject: PyQT - Resizing the columns in QListViews
Message-ID: <a68q9a$9ku$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>

I have the following problem:
How to make the columns of QListViews to have the same size as the left
panel

and change their size automatically during the movement of the splitter in
the

exmaple below? THX 4 All hlp.

        Adam Widera

PS: If the solution of this problem is too long or too obvious to be placed
on

this list just point me to a similar example on the net.

import sys
from qt import *

class Test(QWidget):
    def __init__(self, parent=None, name='Test', f=0):
        QWidget.__init__(self, parent, name, f)

    def paintEvent(self, e):
        p = QPainter(self)
        p.setClipRect(e.rect())


class MainWindow(QMainWindow):

    def __init__(self, *args):
        apply(QMainWindow.__init__, (self,) + args)

        self.s1 = QSplitter(Qt.Horizontal, self, "split1")
        self.s2 = QSplitter(Qt.Vertical, self.s1, "split2")

        self.tree = QListView(self.s2)
        self.tree.addColumn("item")
        self.tree.setRootIsDecorated(1)
        self.items=[]
        self.items.append(QListViewItem(self.tree, "root"))
        self.items.append(QListViewItem(self.items[-1], "leaf"))
        self.items.append(QListViewItem(self.items[-2], "leaf"))

        self.tree2 = QListView(self.s2)
        self.tree2.addColumn("item")
        self.tree2.setRootIsDecorated(1)
        self.items2=[]
        self.items2.append(QListViewItem(self.tree2, "root"))
        self.items2.append(QListViewItem(self.items2[-1], "leaf"))
        self.items2.append(QListViewItem(self.items2[-2], "leaf"))

        self.t2 = Test(self.s1)
        self.t2.setBackgroundColor(Qt.white)

        self.s1.setOpaqueResize(1)
        self.s2.setOpaqueResize(1)

        self.setCentralWidget(self.s1)


def main(args):
    app=QApplication(args)
    win=MainWindow()
    win.show()
    app.connect(app, SIGNAL("lastWindowClosed()"),
                app, SLOT("quit()"))
    app.exec_loop()

if __name__=="__main__":
    main(sys.argv)






From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Mar 14 14:57:52 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:57:52 -0800
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
In-Reply-To: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <005801c1cb92$86c44d00$445d4540@Dell2>

> - Magnus (who thinks that SimpleXMLRPCServer should be called
>   xmlrpclib.Server, with xmlrpclib.ServerProxy being used as the
>   server proxy... :)

Placing the XML-RPC server implementation in the same module would be
asymmetrical with other supported protocols e.g. BaseHTTPServer vs.
httplib. 

Cheers,
Brian




From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 12:59:24 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:59:24 -0800
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
In-Reply-To: <20020313170608.GB2611@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <slrna8su7t.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
	<E04538FF-369C-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov>
	<20020313170608.GB2611@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <20020313095924.4600449a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:06:08 +0100
Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Le 13/03/02 ? 09:10, rasmussn at lanl.gov ?crivit:
> > On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 02:54 PM, phil hunt wrote:
> > As I was reading Microsoft's license, I thought of it in relation to
> > the GPL.
> > Maybe Microsoft is just covering it's backside so that users of their
> > products won't use it in ways that will break the GPL. [...]
> 
> I cannot imagine they'd waste a thought on wether their users break
> other people's/companies licenses, because there's no way Microsoft
> could get into trouble because of that.
> 
> So that only leaves that they're spreading FUD intentionally.

Not unlike the shouting at the end of their NT EULA's that warn against
using Java for applications that involve risk of life and limb.  Frankly
I'd be far more concerned about using NT in those applications than whether
the app were written in Java.  Imagine being in a coma for a year and the
hospital having to reboot your life-support once a week.  That would take a
lot of the fun out of it.

As an aside, if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy
than a Windows box.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From mnations at airmail.net  Sat Mar 16 19:52:49 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 16:52:49 -0800
Subject: PIL Headaches: Advice Needed
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203161652.7f28e23b@posting.google.com>

I have gone thru all the tutorials and read me's I can find, and I
still can't get PIL to work for me. At no point has it ever been able
to recognize any file that I try to open in all formats (.bmp, .jpg,
.gif, etc).

I've imported the two DLL's into my main structure. I've imported all
of the imaging .py files into the main Lib folder. The classes are
being recognized and imported correctly.

Has anyone else had similar problems? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Marc


From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar  2 06:05:07 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:05:07 +0000
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

Ron Stephens wrote:
> 
> I am thinking of buying a "home" license of Black Adder, to use for
> making GUI's for Python programs to be used on Linux+KDE and also
> perhaps for the new Sharp Zaurus. Does anyone have any experience with
> Black Adder that they can share? One of my main reasons for wanting
> Black Adder is to use the GUI builder, so I am particualrly interested
> in opinions about that aspect of Black Adder, but I am also interested
> in other aspects as well.
> 
> One question I have concerns licensing. If I buy the "home" version,
> could I still share my programs as GPL'ed open source, or would that
> require me to buy the "professional" license, which is much more
> expensive? In other words, my programs would never be used in any
> commercial way but I might want to post them as open source, free
> software.

The main difference in the licence between the "home" and "professional"
version relate to the re-distribution rights of Qt. The "professional"
version allows you to re-distribute the copy of the Qt supplied with
BlackAdder with your application (but under no other circumstances), so
you can ship a complete binary package to your customers for both Linux
and Windows without incurring any further licensing fees from Trolltech.

If you are only developing GPL'ed applications, and you are expecting
users to already have Qt installed, then the "home" version is fine.

Phil



From newsfroups at jerf.org  Tue Mar  5 18:43:44 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:43:44 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C8466F9.2080903@jerf.org> <_f7h8.5541$aP6.6480@rwcrnsc54> <3C851D41.3000902@jerf.org> <3C85446B.B389BB0F@spam.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <3C855848.60302@jerf.org>

Bj?rn Lindberg wrote:

> and yes, all *standards* *conformant* compilers will follow this practice.

Emphasis mine. That was my point. <wink>

On an intuitive level, that's one of those "depend on it when you have 
no other options" kind of features. Even when the standard specs those 
sort of things, little tiny details often differ from implementation to 
implementation. I can't actually think of any in this exact instance, 
but that's often a sign that my creativity is lacking, not that there 
aren't details waiting to bite you if you depend over-much on 
implementation behavior. :-)



From charles at a3a.com.br  Mon Mar 18 14:38:25 2002
From: charles at a3a.com.br (Charles)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:38:25 -0400
Subject: socket programming
Message-ID: <02031815382500.31797@magneto>

Anybody know where can i find a good (beginner) tutorial
about Socket Programming using Python ?
I was read the py-how.sourceforge.net tutorial but i think
it is have a poor useful examples..

Charles




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 20:12:00 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:12:00 -0500
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com> <slrna8o03d.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C8C02B3.674898B0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C0460.993A4F81@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> phil hunt wrote re the infamous Mr. Rue:
> >
> > Is he still posting here?
> >
> > (I killfiled him some time ago).
> 
> Not in any new threads.  I use Netscape for news, and it's not
> possible to killfile somebody without writing a f5g message
> filter, so I killed the threads he was in and haven't heard a
> peep since...

Just posted to the TDD mailing list, coincidentally:

 http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

Anyone care to calculate the total for our pet crackpot?  :-)

-Peter


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar 20 10:33:33 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 15:33:33 GMT
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9haud.e6b.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list at python.org>, 
	Andy Gimblett wrote:
> It's not pseudo-HTML, it's W3C compliant HTML (is "<?", btw?).

Yes; <? ?> is part of the XML spec, and is intended for embedding
processing instructions in XML.

Quixote turns the idea of templating on its head and embeds HTML in
Python code.  Section 4 of
http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/mx-architecture/ talks about why this
turns out to be a really good idea.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
I'm as truthful, honest, and about as boring as they come.
    -- Mel, in "The Ultimate Foe"

  


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 14:36:32 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:36:32 -0800
Subject: Gumbie: a GUI Generator for Jython
References: <3C94E29F.A48FE107@earthlink.net> <slrna99pku.1eav.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <a71v41.3vs9mhj.1@kserver.org>

On 17 Mar 2002 18:55:28 GMT, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <slrna99pku.1eav.gerhard at lilith.my-fqdn.de>:

> I've never heard of "easy gui", but what you probably mean is anygui.

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=b16e4ef7.0202131021.2b105a66%40posting.google.com

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Thu Mar 14 11:38:29 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:38:29 +0100
Subject: Using distutils for embedding -- was: Re: Newbie: Undefined reference when initializing Python
In-Reply-To: <a6puo1+cgsb@eGroups.com>
References: <uzo1cqqfi.fsf@python.net> <a6puo1+cgsb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020314163829.GA81596@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 14/03/02 ? 10:41, henrikb666 ?crivit:
> --- In python-list at y..., Michael Hudson <mwh at p...> wrote:
> > You need to link to Python; there should be a "-lpython" in there
> > somewhere (and probably a "-L/some/path/or/other/" too).
> The -l entry in the Makefile should point to the directory with
> the libpython2.2.a file, right?

There should be an -L entry pointing to the directory containing the
libpython2.2.a file. And there should be a -lpython2.2 entry, too. -L points to
the library directories. -lsomething means that this library should be linked
against.

> When the file is placed in /home/pos/Python-2.2, what should the
> entry look like exactly, because I tried this without success
> (yes, I know I am a Linux newbie!):

Erh. Have you installed your Python 2.2 at all? I mean, did you make the "make
install" step? This is necessary. This installs Python 2.2 at the place you
told you specified with --prefix in the configure step. If you didn't specifiy
any --prefix, it's installed into /usr/local by default.

Out of interest, I've tried to hack a Makefile that uses distutils. It would be
nice if I could get some feedback on it, as this or an improved version could
possibly solve this problem once and for all.

Here it is, playing tricks with distutils again (Python should point to the
Python executable you want to use, like python, python2.1, python2.2,
/usr/local/cvspython/bin/python or whatever):

PYTHON=python
PYFLAGS=`$(PYTHON) -c 'from distutils.sysconfig get_config_var; var = get_config_var; print " ".join([var("LIBS"), var("SYSLIBS"), var("LDFLAGS"), "-L"+var("LIBPL"), "-I"+var("INCLUDEPY"), "-lpython"+var("VERSION")])'`
embed: embed.c
	$(CC) -o embed embed.c $(PYFLAGS)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 10.9 ?C      Wind: 3.3 m/s



From ark at research.att.com  Mon Mar 11 00:49:02 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:49:02 GMT
Subject: Translating Python to C (was Re: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python)
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com> <mailman.1015802057.4913.python-list@python.org> <ef6o8ugudku03pq8m2tcb4mksep3dgu01v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <yu99vgc3d581.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

jkraska> Programming in C++ genuinely depresses me.

jkraska> And I'm an old veteran. I've been using it since the days of
jkraska> C Front, if anyone around happens to know what that
jkraska> means. :-)

Unfortunately, there are lots of terrible C++ books out there.
The standard library has opened up lots of new doors that most
of the books simply ignore, which means that a lot of programmers
don't even know that they exist.

I don't want to start a C++ discussion on comp.lang.python,
but I'll be glad to continue this discussion on comp.lang.c++
if you like.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From yajurveda at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 19:56:20 2002
From: yajurveda at yahoo.com (MShyam)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 16:56:20 -0800
Subject: Use of select.select
Message-ID: <98a8b53e.0203011656.7aaad470@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Our product embeds python in C++ and in our
py methods, we use select.select in several
places. When purifying the executable, we
find that when select.select(...) is executed,
we find several BSWs, BSRs, IPWs and IPRs
(beyond stack writes/reads, invalid pointer
 writes/reads). Has such a problem been reported?
What's the fix? We're using python 1.5.2.
Because of these memory errors, we find that 
eventually our processes dump core.

Any assistance is appreciated!

thanks,
yajurveda at yahoo.com


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Fri Mar 29 18:39:44 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:39:44 +1100
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <3ca47917.18551297@news.tudelft.nl>
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203291353040.8440-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <3ca47917.18551297@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <200203292339.XAA17644@crown.off.ekorp.com>

If you want a good place to start coding, the Catalog SIG can always use 
people with free programming time! Everyone says python needs a catalog like 
CPAN, but no-one seems to have the time to write (or finish writing) the 
thing.

Mailing list:
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig/

Archive:
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/


Recently there's been several efforts:

Jason Petrone's package manager
  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/2001-December/000211.html

ciphon
  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/2001-December/000212.html

Gideon (Zope-based)
  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/2002-February/000215.html



     Richard

  



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 28 11:18:13 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 11:18:13 -0500
Subject: Dealing with python version
References: <slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org> <m3u1r1y68i.fsf@wilma.localdomain> <slrnaa5hul.7ve.ak@ak.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <a7vfo5$13p$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnaa5hul.7ve.ak at ak.silmarill.org>,
Andrei Kulakov  <ak at silmarill.org> wrote:
>
>IOW, this should be automated. Hadn't anyone done this yet? Is there
>some particular reason why this is hard to implement?

I would say it's the opposite: it's so easy to do that nobody has
bothered creating a generic solution.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 18:02:11 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:02:11 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
		<3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>
		<a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
		<mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org>
		<3CA0D05D.B42BF0E1@ccvcorp.com> <mailman.1017173741.17947.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA0FDF3.15AA4D84@ccvcorp.com>


Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:47:41 -0800
> Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
> > Cliff Wells wrote:
> >
> > > Also, I notice that your calls to gridSizer.Add are incorrect.  The
> second
> > > argument is supposed to be a boolean flag ....
> >
> > Oooh, I missed that, the first time through.  Actually, though, the
> second
> > argument isn't a boolean, though, it's an integer, which represents the
> > weighting given to that item when expanded.  .....

>
> Is the meaning of this flag consistent across the different types of
> sizers, or is this only for wxBoxSizer?

AFAIK, it's consistent, though I have almost never used anything other than
wxBoxSizers myself, so I don't want to claim anything I can't prove.  ;)  I
would expect it to work the same in a wxFlexGridSizer, with the added condition
that any column/row is the width/height of the largest element within it, and
presumably the wxGridSizer would make every element the size of the largest one
(since they all must be the same size).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Thu Mar 21 14:37:20 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:37:20 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Pyro 2.5 available
Message-ID: <mailman.1016835844.1744.clpa-moderators@python.org>

You can get the latest Pyro version (2.5) at http://pyro.sourceforge.net

What's new:
Install script fixes
New URIs to make object lookup even simpler
Problems with PYRO_STORAGE fixed
Checksumming of network traffic configurable
Documentation updates

What is Pyro?
Pyro is an acronym for PYthon Remote Objects. It is a basic Distributed
 Object Technology system written entirely in Python.

It is extremely easy to implement a distributed system with Pyro, because
all network communication code is abstracted and hidden from
your application. You just get a remote Python object and invoke methods
on the object on the other machine.

Pyro offers you a Name Server, an Event Service, mobile objects, remote
exceptions, dynamic proxies, remote attribute access, automatic
reconnection, a detailed manual, and many examples to get you started
right away.

Irmen de Jong






From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 17:51:58 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:51:58 +0000
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnaacgce.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:04:14 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying.

Efficiency.

> I
>suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
>differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'

What benefit does that give you, apart from making your program run 
slower?

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Mon Mar  4 04:23:37 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:23:37 +0100
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
Message-ID: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>

Python isn't necessarily slow:

When one scrambles through the dejanews-archive he unavoidably will get
the impression that Python is a
nice toy but hardly ever usable for real numerical computations; this is
even supported by the silly language-shootout page.

After my nightmare using Clean (if you are not a language-junkie and
believe -- as I do -- programming
should only be a side-effect in your life, then you should stay away
from Clean: it is a useless big
pile of shit! There were even the time,  and I derided the Python
programmer. Okay, Clean is very, very
fast!), I decided for myself to use Common Lisp for my scientific work.
Though, most of my colleagues
are using IDL (and Fortran90/95 -- not Fortran77! -- for  their
numerical code). Common Lisp has many
similarities with Clean, except that one gets really results in his life
(Clean's array-type-system is
an impudent scandal for its own), but there is one weak point: On this
earth,  there are only 2 serious
implementations, which one wants to work with: Allegro Common Lisp and
Lisp Works. Both are commercial
ones and one of them is very, very expensive (prices beeing a secret,
but there are rumors that an
Allegro Common Lisp license is above USD 4000.-; and one would have to
pay an extra fee for
distributing, commercially, his programs). Okay, there is the free CMUCL
out there for Unix; but they
believe one wants to use Emacs for editing...

Another problem with Lisp: there are nearly no libraries available for
plotting (okay, gnuplot; but
gnuplot is not a plotting library which one wants to make plots with;
show your gnuplot graphics to your
IDL-colleague).

But thanks to F. Dubois (he did even a good job with his column in
"Computing in Science and
Engineering" in order to push Python; otherwise a great many of
scientists hadn't hardly ever
contemplated to take a look at Python) and especially Michels for
contributing DISLIN to Python. I
installed Python due to DISLIN and  NumPy a few days ago. 
I think actually that NumPy in combination with DISLIN is a serious
competitor to IDL or Matlab. DISLIN
even lets you draw some simple maps.

So, comp.lang.python is not the stage for life-stories.

I have to deal a lot with files of the following scheme:

122.233,22.23,344.545,566.67,...
1.22,34.445,566.677,8.889,...
...

I wrote some functions in Common Lisp in order to extract the values and
read them in into an array.
Normaly,  Common Lisp is fast and I didn't have the requirement to speed
it up. But the often strained
"80% of C speed" is pure nonsense. Yes, you can reach it, but then you
would wasting the rest of your
life in order to declare types (and declaring types in Lisp is much
different as lets say in C or
Fortran). Hence: declaring types in Lisp is hardly ever a matter; even
specialists (e.g. Guy Steele)
will agree on them.

After reading the Python tutorial I wrote a function in order to extract
the floating-point values
from a file. It is certainly not the same function as in Lisp, because
in
Lisp one can read in everything
into an array:

1.223,NaN,2.333,233,444
NaN,2.334,3.445,1.223

My Python function sets a value (default -1.0) when it encounters "NaN".
My Python function is using the
NumPy library for the arrays. I am using only the arrays; but I have
also red that some people complain
that NumPy in  combination with native Python loops is way too slow. But
I cannot confirm this (see
below).


Sometimes I have to deal with large files: 8000 lines and 34 columns
(about 2.5MB files). Reading this
file into a Lisp array takes on my 1000MhZ Celeron Notebook with 256MB
RAM under Windows XP:


Allegro Common Lisp (demo version; it is free): 30sec
Lisp Works (personal edition; it is free): 30sec

[Compiler settings as fast as possible: (proclaim '(optimize (speed 3)
(safety 1) (space 0) (debug 0)))]

And to my surprise the Python function takes about 25 sec.

A Clean version takes 13sec.

[I am not sure how to use the profiler in Python; the profiler
(sometimes the documentation is really
weak in this respect) reports 70sec. This is clearly wrong.]

I am not claiming here that Python is faster than Lisp (I am not sure
how it had performed without the
NumPy-library). But as I have written above: Declaring in Lisp would at
least be impossible for me
(okay, my Lisp experience is about 4 month only). 

But this has been a real (micro) life application (with the nice sugar
that in Python I can extract some
values from the array an pass it on to a DISLIN plotting library;
whereas in Common Lisp I would have to
save it to a file and consult e.g. Yorick).

The Python code: (C) Siegfried Gonzi 2002

def readInFloats(file,nHeader=0, whatDel=',',NaN='NIL',NaN_NumPy=-1.0):
        f = open(file,'r')
        s = f.readlines()
        #
        cols = 1 + s[nHeader].count(whatDel)
        rows = len(s) 
        ergArray = zeros((rows,cols), Float)
        count_rows = nHeader
        for x in range(nHeader,rows):
                start = 0
                floatString = s[x]
                if not floatString.isspace():
                        count_rows = count_rows + 1
                        for y in range(cols):
                                if y < (cols - 1):
                                        indx =
floatString[start:].find(whatDel)
                                        dummy =
floatString[start:(start+indx)]
                                        if dummy == NaN:
                                            ergArray[x,y] = NaN_NumPy
                                        else:
                                            ergArray[x,y] = float( dummy
)
                                        start = start + indx + 1
                                else:
                                    dummy = floatString[start:]
                                    if dummy == NaN:
                                        ergArray[x,y] = NaN_NumPy
                                    else:
                                        ergArray[x,y] = float( dummy )
        print 'fertig'                  
        return ergArray[nHeader:count_rows,]



[I have used an extra count_rows because often there is an extra line in
a file without any datas (e.g.
a blank line by accident)]

Enclosed is also the Lisp and Clean code.

Surely, my Lisp and Python code is not the perfect one. But you may not
forget that my Python experience
is a few days, whereas my Lisp experience is a few month. One can argue:
the second time, even in a
different language, it is always easier to implement the same. But this
also holds true for Lisp,
because I implemented the same in Clean last summer, before I even
encountered Common Lisp.


I wrote this all, because I have sometimes seen people in comp.lang.lisp
which are saying that they come
from Python and want to use Lisp because Python is very slow. Surely, a
matrix-matrix multiplication of
the dimension 1024x1024 in Common Lisp (only a simple code without any
declarations) is about 5 to 10
times faster than a native Python code with native Python arrays (a
Clean version is even about 100
times faster). This is a  fact. But there is NumPy out there and most of
the time a scientific data
evaluation does not include array handling ala matrix-matrix
multiplication. Often you steer through
your data sequentially.

And when one does declare (for speed) arrays  in Lisp then he cannot use
a mixed array (lets say strings
and numbers)and this would be a same array as an NumPy array. This is
important to know, because
sometimes it is said that a NumPy library is a weakness, because Lisp
has got all this native and is way
faster. But this is only superficial the case.

Personally, I do not know the Python community, but what I have seen so
far is the fact that they are
way more open-minded for the scientific programmer (try to find any
numerical libraries for Lisp --
except statistics;  or any plotting libraries). Most of the time the
Lispers are busy to fall out with
God and the rest of the world in order to show that a Lisp programmer is
God's gift to the mankind.

In Clean there is also the programming with whitespaces (except that
more than one indentation at once
is allowed); but I haven't had any problems with this and hence I think
this will not impede my Python
programming.

There is one weak point with Lisp: you can only read/write 1 byte as
binary. I am not sure, why nobody
in the Lisp community is reading binary files. 


The native Python IDE should become improved (at least on Windows);
compared to a commercial Lisp
environment  the IDE looks more or less like an
amateur-programmer-project. It is stable (but not as I
know it from Allegro Common Lisp), but the delay-time and behavior of
the windows is nearly often
unacceptable. Okay, the general feeling is like developing as with a
Lisp editor; this is a fine thing
(especially developing code at the command line).


S. Gonzi
Enclosed the Lisp and Clean version for the sake of completeness:

==
Common Lisp version:
==
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; Zaehle die Zeilen in einem File
;;
;; Funktion: (count-lines dateiFile :nHeader 0 :break-point "999")
;; Parameter: dateiFile...File mit den Daten
;;            :nHeader...Anzahl der Kopfzeilen
;;            :break-point...Soll an einer bestimmten Stelle abgebrochen
werden?
;;
;; Ausgabe: Anzahl der Zeilen
;;
;; (C) Siegfried Gonzi 2002
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(defun count-lines (datei &key (nHeader 0) (break-point "999"))
  (let ((n 0)
        (next-line t))
    (with-open-file (infile datei)
      (read-header-lines infile nHeader)
      (loop while(not (eq next-line nil)) do
            (setf next-line (read-line infile nil))
            (if (equal next-line break-point)
                (setf  next-line nil))
            (setf n (+ n 1))))
n))

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; Ueberlese N Kopfzeilen in einem File
;;
;; Funktion: (read-header-lines dateiFile (nHeader 0))
;; Parameter: dateiFile...File
;;            nHeader (optional)...Anzahl der Kopfzeilen
;; 
;; Ausgabe: Filepointer am Ende der Kopfzeile
;;
;; (C) Siegfried Gonzi 2001
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(defun read-header-lines (infile &optional (nHeader 0))
               (loop :for i :from 0 :below nHeader :do
                     (read-line infile nil)))



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; Zaehle einen gewuenschten Character in einem String, und liefere
;; dessen Position:
;;
;;   z.B.:  1.23,2.233,23.34,45.56
;;
;;     liefert eine Liste mit: (4 10 16)
;;
;; Funktion: (get-del-list numberString del)
;; Parameter: numberString...String welcher ausgewertet werden soll
;;            del...Begrenzer (z.B. ",")
;; 
;; Ausgabe: Liste mit den Positionen
;;
;; (C) Siegfried Gonzi 2002
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(defun get-del-list (numberString del)
  (let* ((n (length numberString))
            (el 0)
            (el-list nil))
               (loop :for i :from 0 :below n :do
                     (setf el (aref numberString i))
                     (if (string= el del)
                         (setf el-list (append el-list (list i)))))
el-list))


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; Lese eine Datei,welche folgendes Format besitzt:
;;
;;   Kopfzeile 1
;;   Kopfzeile 2
;;   Kopfzeile n
;;   12.23,23.34,1.234,34.456,2.345,56.67,...
;;   1.23,233.44,3.45,2.34,45.5677,6.778,...
;;   ...
;;
;;   Funktion: (read-in-array-del dateiFile :nHeader 0 :break-point
"999" :del ",")
;;   Parameter:   dateiFile...Datei mit den Werten; Allegro CL
Konvention:
;;                         z.B.: C:/Wissenschaft/R/D/....
;;                :nHeader...Anzahl der Kopfzeilen, die ?berlesen werden
;;                :break-point...An welcher Stelle soll - ausser dem EOF
- 
;;                               abgebrochen werden
;;                :del...Begrenzer (im obigen Beispiel ',')
;;   Externe Funktionen:   count-lines, read-header-lines, get-del-list,
;;
;;   Ausgabe: Array, welches die Werte in Spalten und Zeilen enthaelt
;;
;; (C) Siegfried Gonzi 2002
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
(defun read-in-array-del (datei &key (nHeader 0) (break-point "999")
(del ","))
  (let* ((rows (- (count-lines datei :nHeader nHeader :break-point
break-point) 1))
         (cols nil)
         (val nil)
         (next-line nil)
         (indx-list ())
         (indx-start nil)
         (indx-end nil)
         (array nil))
    (with-open-file (infile datei)
                 (read-header-lines infile nHeader)
                 (loop :for i :from 0 :below rows :do
                       (setf next-line (read-line infile nil))
                       (setf indx-list (get-del-list next-line del))
                       (setf indx-list (append indx-list (list  (length
next-line))))
                       (if (< i 1)
                           (progn
                             (setf cols  (length indx-list))
                             (setf array (append (make-array (list rows
cols))))))
                       (setf indx-start 0)
                       (setf indx-end -1)
                       (loop :for j :from 0 :below cols :do
                             (setf indx-start (+ indx-end 1))
                             (setf indx-end (- (nth j indx-list) 0))
                             (with-input-from-string (s next-line :index
k :start indx-start :end indx-end)
                               (setf val (read s)))
                             (setf (aref array i j) val))))
array))
==
End Common Lisp version
==

======
Clean version: (C) Siegfried Gonzi 2001
======

module convertSeasonD
import StdEnv


In11 :== "nij.txt"
Nh :== 0
T :== ','
Sn :== "999\n"


//Start:: !*World -> (!Real,!*World)
Start world = accFiles( ACopyDatumTimeString_Season Nh T Sn In11 ) world


ACopyDatumTimeString_Season:: !Int !Char !String !String  !*Files ->
(!Real,!*Files)
ACopyDatumTimeString_Season nh  char_d  string_n  inputfile  file
        #! ( readok, infile,file ) = sfopen inputfile FReadText file
        | not readok = abort ( "Cannot read inputfile: " +++ inputfile )
        //
        #! nLines = ( CountLines string_n infile )  
        #! ni = ( nLines - nh )
       
//                                                                                                                                      
        #! infiler = ReadNLines nh
infile                                       
        #! ( string, infile_dummy ) = sfreadline infiler
        #! nj = ( length (CharPosInString 0 char_d string) ) + 1
        #! array = MakeArray ni (nj+1)
        #! arrayread = ( AStringRead char_d array infiler )
        //#! arrayread =  {{arrayread.[x,y]\\x <- [0..(nj-1)]}\\y <-
[0..(ni-1)]}
        //
        #! erg = arrayread.[7994,23]
        = (erg,file)
                                                                                        


AStringRead:: !Char  !{#*{#Real}} !File -> {#*{#Real}}
AStringRead char  marray file = fill_up 0 marray file
where
        fill_up:: !Int !{#*{#Real}} !File -> {#*{#Real}}
        fill_up n marray file
                | n == (size marray) = marray
                #! (string, file) = sfreadline file
                #! elem =  (RealfromString (DStringtoString_List char
string)) 
                #! elemo = {x\\x<- elem}
                = fill_up (n+1) { marray & [n] = elemo } file

                
RealfromString:: ![!String] -> ![!Real]
RealfromString [] = []
RealfromString [x:r] 
        #! el = toRealNaN( x )
        = [el : RealfromString r ]
where
        toRealNaN:: !String -> !Real
        toRealNaN str
                | str == "NIL" = -1.0
                | str == "NaN" = 1.0
                = toReal( str )
        
                

CharPosInString:: !Int !Char !String -> ![!Int]
CharPosInString n  char string=:{ [n] = nk }
        | n == (size string - 1) = []
        = filter ((<>) 0) [ (if (nk == char)  n 0) : CharPosInString (n
+ 1) char string ]
 

ConvertStringtoString_List:: !Int !String ![!Int] -> ![!String]
ConvertStringtoString_List n string list
        | n == (length list - 1) = []
        #! start = list !! n
        #! stop = list !! (n+1)
        = [ ( toString(char_list (start+1) stop string) ) :
ConvertStringtoString_List (n+1) string list ]
where
        char_list:: !Int  !Int !String -> ![!Char]
        char_list start stop string=:{ [start] = nk }
                | start == (stop ) = []
                = [ nk : char_list (start+1) stop string ]      
                

DStringtoString_List:: !Char !String -> ![!String]
DStringtoString_List char string = ConvertStringtoString_List 0 string
pos_list
where
        pos_list = [-1] ++ (CharPosInString 0 char string) ++ [size
string - 1]

        
CountLines:: !String !File -> !Int
CountLines  string_end file = ReadLines 0 file
where
      ReadLines:: !Int !File -> !Int
      ReadLines nLines file
            | sfend file = nLines
            #! (line,filerest) = sfreadline file
            | line == string_end = nLines
            = ReadLines (nLines + 1) filerest


ReadNLines:: !Int !File -> !File
ReadNLines n file
         | n == 0 = file
         #! (line, file) = sfreadline file
         = ReadNLines (n - 1) file


MakeArray:: !Int !Int -> {#*{#Real}}
MakeArray ni nj
             | ni <=0 || nj <=0 = abort("Negative array index")
             =  {{0.0\\x <- [0..(nj-1)]}\\y <- [0..(ni-1)]}

==
End Clean version
==


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Mar 23 07:36:33 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 23:36:33 +1100
Subject: MySQLdb
References: <mailman.1016870917.2350.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3d6xvh35a.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Hall <olc at openlearningcommunity.org> writes:

Michael> I've been writing PHP/MySQL for a couple of years now and am
Michael> now cross-skilling into Perl and Python. I'm interested in
Michael> web database integration for Python CGI scripts.

There is a fairly simple database browsing sample in Albatross.  Some
of the inspiration for Albatross came from PHP so you could do worse
than download it and take it for a spin.

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/

Michael> Is this the right list for general questions about using the
Michael> MySQLdb module?

It depends.  There is a database SIG mailing list which might be
better for some questions.  This document might explain some of your
questions:

        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0249.html

The mailing list is here:

        http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/db-sig

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Mar 20 23:26:51 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 06:26:51 +0200
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org> <7xelifcsq3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <ku1yee4kc4.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <7xelifcsq3.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin
<phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> writes:

| Andy Gimblett <gimbo at ftech.net> writes:
|| It's not pseudo-HTML, it's W3C compliant HTML (is "<?", btw?).

| I don't remember "tal:repeat" as a valid property of any HTML tag 
| from the HTML spec.  That's why I call it pseudo-HTML.

| The issue isn't the <? ?> which can be replaced by something else if
| you want.  It's making code look like HTML properties instead of
| making it look like code.

i think the idea is to not put code in the templates, and using xhtml + xml
namespaces. it doesn't make it invalid xhtml, afaik.

  -- erno


From idot at vt.edu  Tue Mar 26 23:12:37 2002
From: idot at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:12:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: list of empty lists
References: <3CA11A5B.5000501@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <a7rgrl$18l$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Curtis Jensen <cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu>,
exactly what drugs were you under the influence of when you wrote:
> Is there a easy way to make a list of an arbitray number of empty lists?
> 
> I can do something like:
>  >>> some_number = 3
>  >>> l = [[]] * some_number
>  >>> l
> [[], [], []]
> 
> Unfortunatly this has an unfortunate side affect.  Whatever I do to one 
> of the list gets done to the other lists. ie:
>  >>> l[0].append(1)
>  >>> l
> [[1], [1], [1]]
> 
> 
> In this case, what I would like is three independantly empty lists.  I 
> can make a for loop to loop "some_number" of times and append an empty 
> list at each itteration.  Is there a simpler way?
> Thanks.

Python >= 2.0:

    l = [[] for i in xrange(0,10)]

Any Python:

    l = map(lambda x:[],range(0,10))

    from copy import copy
    l = map(copy,[[]]*10)


-- 
CARL BANKS

"I like nothing better than a good challenge.
 This is not one of them."


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar  6 14:11:23 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 19:11:23 GMT
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
Message-ID: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com>

 I'm trying to figure how to write a daemon that will
 efficiently wait for activity on any of several file and/or
 socket descriptors.  Naturally I'm trying to use the select()
 function.

 Here's a skeleton script:

#!/usr/bin/env python2.2
## select on a regular file?
## JimD <jimd at starshine.org>: Sat Mar  2 21:21:55 PST 2002
import select, time
if __name__ == '__main__': 
	import sys
	x=0
	f = open(sys.argv[1], "rb")
	f.seek(-1,2) 
	while 1:
		readfd = [f]
		line = ""
		r,w,e = select.select(readfd,[],[], 120)
		if r[0] is not None:
			line = r[0].read()
			print x, line,
			x += 1

 Unfortunately it continually outputs.  I don't understand why
 if there's no more data at the end of the file.  Is my read()
 not pushing my file position all the way to the EOF?  It's as
 though there's *always* data available on that file descriptor.

 This seems to contradict the documentation:

>>> print select.select.__doc__
select(rlist, wlist, xlist[, timeout]) -> (rlist, wlist, xlist)

Wait until one or more file descriptors are ready for some kind of I/O.
The first three arguments are lists of file descriptors to be waited
for:

 ...

*** IMPORTANT NOTICE ***
On Windows, only sockets are supported; on Unix, all file descriptors.
>>>


 Is this a bug?  I'm using Python2.2 as packaged by Debian (unstable)
 on a Debian GNU/Linux system  (what a surprise, a Debian package 
 on a Debian system!) under 2.4.9 SMP kernel).

 Would poll() be a better choice?  The __doc__ for that is a bit
 terse.
 
>>> print select.poll.__doc__  
Returns a polling object, which supports registering and
unregistering file descriptors, and then polling them for I/O events.
>>> 




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 20:44:17 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 03:44:17 +0200
Subject: Python/Linux
In-Reply-To: <U5Op8.61601$Q7.48626359@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886hv$st6$1@panix1.panix.com> <U5Op8.61601$Q7.48626359@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020401014416.GC333@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> [2002-03-31 19:55 -0500]:
> Forgot to ask, is Zope's database server actually MySQL under the hood?

ZOPE's ZODB (ZOPE Object Database) is, as the name says, an object database,
and has nothing to do with a realational database like MySQL. AFAIK it uses
ZODB for internal purposes (content-management stuff and others), but you can
also use the ZODB in your custom-written methods, that you can in turn use from
Zope DTML pages.

I'd recommend to start with the ZOPE tutorial and examples on a live ZOPE
installation if you want to get an impression of it.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.3 ?C      Wind: 0.8 m/s



From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Fri Mar  8 12:07:43 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:07:43 GMT
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <zd6i8.149411$7a1.12605131@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira at cis.upenn.edu>, Fernando Pereira wrote:
> Another reason is that a JIT compiler may not help Python as much as Java,
> because every Python object must have a type tag, and those tags must be
> checked by every operation, while type-tag checks are only needed in a few
> places in Java (eg casts), and never for primitive types. Because of type
> tag checks, there would be no long, easily optimizable straightline
> instruction sequences, which is one of the things what makes JITC worth it
> for Java. The other thing is inlining, which would be rather hard to do
> given Python's dynamic nature.

A dynamic language like Python really wants a specializing compiler
a la Psyco:

http://psyco.sourceforge.net

I understand they're now passing the python regression test suite and
are planning a public alpha or beta soon.  For some things the speed
boost is phenomenal, for other things it's less impressive.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 16:37:53 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 22:37:53 +0100
Subject: pickle, cPickle, zlib, and the future
References: <79b2b0bb.0203011329.79469c5b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3r8n4nf4e.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

xscottgjunk at yahoo.com (Scott Gilbert) writes:

> I figure this was either planned or lucky.  If it was planned, a quick
> comment in the source would relax my fears that my code won't break in
> the next version of Python.  If it was lucky, it might be nice to jump
> on the opportunity.

I guess it was lucky.

> So can I rely on the first character 'x' being reserved for zlib, and
> cPickle/pickle strings never starting with 'x'?

At the moment, no. If you can point to some zlib documentation that
explains what the 'x' on each output does (*), feel free to submit a
patch to the pickle implementations that documents (in a comment) that
letter as being reserved for this purpose; it seems no harm is done
doing so. Please submit that patch to sf.net/projects/python.

Regards,
Martin


From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar 12 08:43:43 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:43:43 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch>

Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote in message
mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list at python.org...
> So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
> Herald - see
> http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html
>

It's probably just the journalist's fault but I find the article frivolous
and vague.

What he is concretely working about? What he contretely want to work about?
etc... There are many possible integration philosophies and technologies?
and both aspects tech/philosophy are far from irrelevant.
(The frozen Python.NET as a full fledged Python or limited
and altered, a new attempt in that direction, bridging ...)

Is he working in stealth-mode or it is just MS-kind PR <wink>?

What kind of Python technologies will the book treat?

Just some academic questions. regards.








From t.kloppenburg at billiton.de  Wed Mar 27 09:55:04 2002
From: t.kloppenburg at billiton.de (Tjabo Kloppenburg)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:55:04 +0100
Subject: Tkinter: Why won't it work?
In-Reply-To: <Xns91DEA230DC824AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
References: <Xns91DEA230DC824AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <E16qEpN-0007c7-00@mail.python.org>

>         self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red",
> command=frame.quit)

command=master.quit

tk.



From ron at ire.org  Mon Mar  4 12:51:39 2002
From: ron at ire.org (ron nixon)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 09:51:39 -0800
Subject: text manipulation examples
Message-ID: <61ff32e3.0203040951.2408cef4@posting.google.com>

I work with a lot of text files that come in different formats and
sometimes resemble a jumbled mess. I've been learning python for the
past few months and have been impressed with it. However, I'd like to
see examples of string manipulation of text files, which are often
lacking in the books I've gotten so far(if I'm wrong, please point me
to the book.) Can anyone point me to examples or have examples I could
take a look at.

Ron


From bmeerdnk at telekabel2.nl  Tue Mar 26 11:08:18 2002
From: bmeerdnk at telekabel2.nl (Bart Meerdink)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 08:08:18 -0800
Subject: Is it really so difficult to enable Tkinter?
References: <f6e6d4dd.0203251458.25ded181@posting.google.com> <m31ye88ajt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <f6e6d4dd.0203260808.15605365@posting.google.com>

> No. You can skip the step where you edit Modules/Setup, since setup.py
> should find the location of the headers itself. Everything else is as
> intended; crossing the fingers is optional.

Thanks, yes you are right. Pre-installing tcl-devel is enough.
Same mechanism applies to (among others) expat and gdbm. And idle
works if you save the Tools directory before removing the build tree.

Still, maybe it could be easier.


From python at rcn.com  Sat Mar  2 02:45:21 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:45:21 -0500
Subject: string to dictionary
References: <a2972632.0203011522.16f1b8e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5pvuq$q30$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"les ander" <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2972632.0203011522.16f1b8e0 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> i have a list of strings like this:
>
> aList=[ 'a_1 b_1', 'a_2 b_2', 'a_3 b_3',...]
>
> i want to convert this to a dictionary with a_i -> b_i without
> using loops (it is trivial to do it with loops)



This ought to do it:
>>> aList=[ 'a_1 b_1', 'a_2 b_2', 'a_3 b_3']
>>> dict(map(lambda g: g.split() ,aList))
{'a_3': 'b_3', 'a_2': 'b_2', 'a_1': 'b_1'}


If you don't have Python 2.2, then build the dictionary directly:
>>> d = {}
>>> map( lambda (k,v): d.__setitem__(k,v), map(string.split, aList) )
[None, None, None]
>>> d
{'a_3': 'b_3', 'a_2': 'b_2', 'a_1': 'b_1'}

Note, the use of __setitem__ to avoid '='.
Still, it's better to get Python 2.2 and avoid the second
method.  Good functional style stays away from
lambdas with side-effects (setting the dictionary).



> i tried this
>
> dict={}
> map(lambda x,d=dict: c=string.split(x), d[c[0]]=c[1], aList)
>



I recommend:
1. Never use an assignment inside a lambda expression
2. Never name a dictionary 'dict' which overrides the constructor
3. If lambdas get confusing, write a simple, working 'def' first
    and use that in the map.



> but it complains that "keyword can't be an expression"
> can someone please help me get this right?
> thanks
> les


Good luck,


Raymond Hettinger




From brueckd at tbye.com  Tue Mar  5 10:51:33 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:51:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can Python do this?
In-Reply-To: <3C84DC2A.6020400@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203050749230.30984-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> > Can you tell me little bit more why is this a bad idea to use exec/eval?
>
> Because they're
> - unnecessary
> - ugly
> - unsafe

And:
- slow

For example:

s = 'bar'
getattr(foo, s)

is way faster than

eval('foo.%s' % s)

-Dave




From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar  6 14:36:08 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 19:36:08 GMT
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
References: <mailman.1015271467.3303.python-list@python.org> <3C8672DB.28AD17B5@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <slrna8crt8.l6g.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <3C8672DB.28AD17B5 at noaa.gov>, Chris Barker wrote:
> This looks like a good place to start looking:
> http://www.twain.org/docs/twain_20_unix.htm

Note that there's already a PIL module for the SANE scanner API
(http://www.mostang.com/sane/).  

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Our duty, if not our conscience, is clear.
    -- President Borusa, in "Arc of Infinity"


From rsalz at zolera.com  Fri Mar  1 11:19:55 2002
From: rsalz at zolera.com (Rich Salz)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 08:19:55 -0800
Subject: importing C libraries, Solaris2.6, gcc2.95 :(
Message-ID: <17214de2.0203010819.240c00d3@posting.google.com>

I have a Solaris 2.6 machine, gcc 2.95.3 installed in /usr/local;
/usr/local/bin is in my $PATH ; /usr/ccs/bin is not in my $PATH. I
have python 2.1.1 sources; I did "./configure" with no flags. 
Attempting to import any library that includes a C shared library
fails with the same backtrace:
(gdb) bt 6
#0  0xef5a4674 in strlen ()
#1  0x64204 in PyString_FromString (
    str=0xd26368 <Address 0xd26368 out of bounds>) at
Objects/stringobject.c:89
#2  0x60da4 in PyDict_SetItemString (v=0xba68c, 
    key=0xd26368 <Address 0xd26368 out of bounds>, item=0xc3cf8)
    at Objects/dictobject.c:1403
#3  0x37278 in Py_InitModule4 (name=0xadf5c "", methods=0xeed36790,
doc=0x0,
    passthrough=0x0, module_api_version=802040) at
Python/modsupport.c:57
#4  0xeed25b5c in init_tkinter ()
    at /export/home/jjb/Python-2.1.1/Modules/_tkinter.c:2113
#5  0x35088 in _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule (name=0xefffef80
"_tkinter",
    pathname=0xefffea90
"/usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so",
    fp=0xab7c8) at ./Python/importdl.c:52

What am I doing wrong in building?

Replies to me will be summarized, thanks!


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 12:25:55 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:25:55 -0600
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <6862777.1015405967@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
        <15494.19711.723922.527327@beluga.mojam.com>
        <6862777.1015405967@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <15494.20771.715902.111753@beluga.mojam.com>

    David> Also, target_list isn't right because the proposed for-loop
    David> syntax only allows looping over one integer at a time, not a
    David> tuple of integers.

Yeah, sorry for the false alarm.  In reviewing the Grammar file, it's not
apparent there is a simple production that would restrict the grammar to
scalars that can appear on the lhs of an assignment statement.

Skip



From hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu  Tue Mar 12 14:25:50 2002
From: hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu (Paul Hughett)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:25:50 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6lknu$8je$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

Martin Kaufmann <martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> wrote:

: I'm trying to write a program to calculate diffraction patterns for
: electron diffraction on clusters (100-10'000 atoms). So far I used
: Python only for CGI programming and system tools (on a rather low
: level...). Therefore I don't know whether it's reasonable to program
: such a project in Python (I really like the language). Presently my
: man concern is speed as the main function of the program is a nested
: loop, the inner over several 1000 bins of a histogram and the outer
: over several 1000 values of scattering factors. In the end I should be
: able to simulate diffraction patterns and compare them to the
: experimental data (i.e. run this function several times).

You might want to take a look at bblimage, which is an extension to
Python written in C; it emphasizes high performance, but the set of
operations implemented so far is oriented toward medical image
processing.  It supports pretty much all the basic operations (+,-, ...
sin, cos, exp, etc) on n-dimensional images in the usual integral and
floating point types (but not complex, alas; I haven't starting playing
with FFTs yet).  The URL is

         http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/bbl/bblimage

: Now my questions: Would it be best to

: (a) write the whole program in C/C++ (I know only the basics of C but
: it would be a good "excuse" to learn it...)?
: (b) write the main program in Python but the heavy calculations in C
: (I played today with scipy.weave -- the speed is much better but I
: didn't really understand what I was doing...)?
: (c) program it in Python and don't care about speed (or buy a new
: workstation...)?

It really depends on how many diffraction patterns you need to do.  It
doesn't make sense to spent two months learning C to save even 99% of
a ten-hour computation that you're going to do only once.  (Unless
your real purpose is to learn C.)  On the other hand. if you have to
do a few hundred patterns, then it might be a good investment of time.

For what it's worth, my own experience is that (b) using C for the
heavy lifting and Python to glue the pieces together can be very
effective if you implement the right piece in the right language.  I'm
using bblimage for registration and segmentation of hundreds of volume
images at half an hour apiece.  The current code runs almost as fast
as plain C (about 4 times faster than a competing C++ implementation
not particularly optimized for speed) but the Python code that glues
it all together is easier to modify and experiment with than a C++
implementation would be.

One general comment: The performance killer in many applications like
this is doing the innermost loop in the interpreted language (Python,
Matlab, etc).  If you can recast your algorithm as operations on
arrays rather than individual numbers, and your language does the
implicit loops over the elements efficiently, you typically get 10x or
so improvements in speed.  


Paul Hughett


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Mar 13 01:14:04 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:14:04 -0800
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
In-Reply-To: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <002401c1ca56$46c10e60$445d4540@Dell2>

> Does anyone have any code that, given that absolute URL of a web page,
can
> convert all the relative URLs on that page to their absolute
equivalent?

To create the URLs, look at urljoin from the standard library. See:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urlparse.html

I'm less certain of the correct approach to doing the transforming of
the web page. I'd probably just use a regular expression.

Cheers,
Brian  




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 16:55:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 21:55:37 GMT
Subject: win32 extension: rare PythonService problem
References: <rrui8.2150$P4.203427@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns91CD6455D4DCCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>
Message-ID: <a6gkop$r0i$0@216.39.172.122>

On 10 Mar 2002 14:50:59 GMT, Gordon McMillan <gmcm at hypernet.com> wrote:

>Zihong Lu wrote:
>
>> I use the win32 extension PythonService to write a windows service for
>> our project.  The service runs fine on most NT, win2k machines. 
>> Recently our customers reported that for some PCs, the command "python
>> MyService.py start" returned as usual, no traceback, but the service
>> did not start at all.  
>
>I would suspect permissions. I had a similar experience when 
>moving a service from a test box to prod. Eventually the sys 
>admin created a new account and things started working. As a
>lowly contractor I wasn't allowed to find out what he 
>actually did, though ;-(.
>
Permissions possibly, but I would also check environment, if that's used by
the service program and/or python either on purpose or as a fallback looking
for something.

If you can conveniently create a test service that will write the environment
_it_ sees as a running service to a file, or otherwise make it available to you,
that might tell you something, though it would probably be obvious just from
checking where the environment is defined.

But I'd check the event logs (run "%SystemRoot%"\system32\eventvwr.exe) first
for a clue, since that's easy. If there's a permission problem it may show up.
If not, you could if necessary set up an audit of all accesses to your
service program files and see them in the logs (both sucessful and failing
accesses if you like). (At the same time, you can log who is playing solitaire
on that machine ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mongiaamit at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 11:47:56 2002
From: mongiaamit at yahoo.com (Amit Mongia)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:47:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyQt installation problems on windows
Message-ID: <20020322164756.46454.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I have installed Python 2.2 , on my computer. I
created a gui using Qt Designer and used pyuic to make
a python file out of it. 
Now i want to run that file using the python
interpreter. Whenever i try doing that it gives an
error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "WrapperInterface.py", line 10, in ?
    from qt import *
  File "F:\PYTHON22\lib\qt.py", line 44, in ?
    import libqtc
ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files
needed to run this applic
ation cannot be found.

I even tried all the py and pyc file from PyQt/lib
folder to Python22/lib folder and the same with the
Dll files. but it still gives the same error. Can
anyone offer a solution for this on windows.
Regards,
Amit Mongia


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Thu Mar 28 18:32:44 2002
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 15:32:44 -0800
Subject: Sendkeys without Scripting Host
References: <a7vepu$nqu$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0203281532.74d221c@posting.google.com>

"Harald Schneider" <h_schneider at marketmix.com> wrote in message news:<a7vepu$nqu$01$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> is there a possibility to use sendkeys() without scripting host installed?
> Are there any
> extentions available for python?
> 
> Thanks for your answers!
> Harald

There's a small module by Paulo Soares that might work:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-May/002986.html

The module included in that post is a base64-encoded zip file that
includes a .pyd for Python 1.5.  I took the liberty of base64-decoding
it, compiling it against Python 2.2, and posting it here:
http://thor.prohosting.com/~drushby/files/simpscrp-for-python2.2.zip

As for operating system support, here's what the included file
PlayKeys.h says:
"""
SendInput is supported by NT4 SP3, Win2000, and Win98.  PlayKeys
checks if USER32.DLL exports SendInput before any other processing. 
If this code must run on an operating system that does not have
SendKeys, you might be able to use the keybd_event.
"""

I distinctly recall using simpscrp on Windows 95, but I believe IE 5
was installed; the Scripting Host may have come with it.


From les_ander at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 18:06:50 2002
From: les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 15:06:50 -0800
Subject: multiline raw input
Message-ID: <a2972632.0203151506.536e5f21@posting.google.com>

Hi,
i have a program that takes input from the command line
however this input is multi-line and will have a lot of backslashes
I tried using sys.stdin but it ignores the backslashes.
i tried with raw_input but that only takes in the first line

can some suggest a remedy?




for example: 
i would like to run my program as follows:

>> myprog.py 
Type in some input (type in '.' to end) :
\sum_{i=1}^{n} \frac{\sqrt{2}}{\alpha} \infty
\begin{itemize}
\item this equation says that 
\end{itemize}
.




thanks


From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Tue Mar 12 08:41:37 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:41:37 +0100
Subject: Rule Engine in Python
References: <eb612768.0203101940.5565b282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6l0if$f1f8a$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Just as a simple suggestion (I never tried) : what about using one of the
numerous Java implementation of such engines with Jython ?

See for example : http://grunge.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tolk/vmlanguages.html#Logic

HTH (and btw I am really interested to learn from working projects).

B.


"Lee Ingram" <lee.ingram at 432one.com> wrote in message
news:eb612768.0203101940.5565b282 at posting.google.com...
> I have used Google to scour the web looking for an implementation of a
> rules engine using Python. I need a mechanism whereby slightly trained
> end users will be able to add / modify business rules and have them
> execute. I previously used Blaze Software's Advisor rules engine to do
> something similar. Has anyone seen, implemented, or tossed out this
> idea previously?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know...
>
> TIA
>
> Lee Ingram




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 09:26:56 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:56 -0000
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet? <obligatory wink
	>
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCDF9@intrepid>

> From:	Tim Churches [SMTP:tchur at optushome.com.au]
> > I-know-you-were-joking-but-a-<wink>-wouldn't-have-been-out-of-place-ly
> y'rs,
> 
> Hey, I was only quoting the (somewhat sensationalist) headline from the
> newspaper story...
 
Fair enough. You have to remember, though, that not everyone's sense of
humour is so subtle. I happen to know, for example, that Steve Holden comes
from Yorkshire. And there may be one or two Americans on the list, too.

Let's-see-how-I-get-on-without-the-<wink>-ly Y'rs,
Simon Brunning
simon at brunningonline.net




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copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 19 10:49:01 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:49:01 GMT
Subject: Detecting corrupted .pyc files
References: <slrna9elp7.lgo.michaelteo@linux1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ud6y04krk.fsf@python.net>

Michael Teo <michaelteo at bigfoot.com> writes:

> Does the python interpreter has some mechanism for checking whether the .pyc 
> files are corrupt before running it ?

No.  Corrupt marshal data *usually* won't unmarshal, but there are no
real checks.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 "Well, the old ones go Mmmmmbbbbzzzzttteeeeeep as they start up and
  the new ones go whupwhupwhupwhooopwhooooopwhooooooommmmmmmmmm."
                         -- Graham Reed explains subway engines on asr


From paul at boddie.net  Thu Mar  7 13:34:29 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 10:34:29 -0800
Subject: Web scripting with Python (My 2nd post!)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com> <LsCh8.342$Gi.251057@news0.telusplanet.net> <40c3f5da.0203070720.6ca52e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203071034.795308e4@posting.google.com>

inerte at hotmail.com (Julio Nobrega) wrote in message news:<40c3f5da.0203070720.6ca52e4 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>   So Andy, that's why I want to reinvent the wheel. First, I want to
> learn Python. Second, I don't think there's a system with the
> infrastructure I need/will develop. Balanced, I will start from
> scratch.

Writing a Web application framework is one of those things that looks
easy enough at first - how hard can it be to do a CGI wrapper after
all? The problem is, after experiencing the low cost of entry with
Python, the tasks just get harder and consume more of your effort than
the application you were wanting to write. How do you do user sessions
properly? How do you authenticate users? Some frameworks already
provide these kinds of facilities without dictating how your
application is going to turn out.

Starting out at a low level is exactly the kind of trap that too many
projects fall into, producing a few 0.0.x releases before disappearing
into the void. And that's just desktop applications - the added
amusements of Web framework development include things like security,
which one might think is easy to address, but it's usually far better
to use trusted security techniques than think up schemes of your own.

I'll accept that some frameworks have a perspective that can seem hard
to share with the developers, and others are under fairly major and
continuous development, but with all the existing Web frameworks out
there, I'm starting to believe that we don't really need many more,
let alone ones which might never approach getting finished.

But don't let me stand in your way. ;-)

Paul


From narnett at mccmedia.com  Mon Mar 25 09:40:01 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:40:01 -0800
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
In-Reply-To: <u9u5f0ks9md66@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJGEOHJMAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of John Roth

[snip]

> Since you're running a console app, I'd suggest two
> changes to your test setup.
> 
> 1) Execute the program from the DOS prompt, not from
> PythonWin.
> 2) Redirect stdout to a file.
> 
> The first suggestion is simply to eliminate one possible
> variable - if switching to a raw command prompt changes
> something, you've got more data, if it doesn't, you've
> eliminated a possible candidate.

Already tried both...  In fact, that's how I've usually been testing.

But thanks.

Nick



From maciej at maciejsobczak.com  Mon Mar 18 16:39:49 2002
From: maciej at maciejsobczak.com (Maciej Sobczak)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:39:49 +0100
Subject: socket programming
References: <mailman.1016480129.2465.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a75mqm$nrb$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>

Hi,

"Charles" <charles at a3a.com.br> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016480129.2465.python-list at python.org...
> Anybody know where can i find a good (beginner) tutorial
> about Socket Programming using Python ?

If you are in this business, you can also find some contexts where the
following library will be useful:

http://www.maciejsobczak.com/prog/yami/

and particularly for Python:

http://www.maciejsobczak.com/prog/yami/impl/index.html#python

See the tutoral examples to find out if it's something useful for you.

Cheers,

--
Maciej Sobczak
http://www.maciejsobczak.com/





From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Mar  6 10:07:14 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:07:14 GMT
Subject: undefined symbols when linking Python into a shared library
References: <3C8540B5.E133D407@freenet.de>
Message-ID: <3c863019.155813297@news.laplaza.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:03:33 +0100, Michael Neuroth
<michael.neuroth at freenet.de> wrote:

:Hello to all python experts,
:
:I have a question about embedding Python in an application.
:To be more precisely, I want to create a shared library which
:holds the python interpreter and some other functions registered
:at the Python interpreter (I used SWIG for that task). This
:shared library (or DLL) will be loaded dynamically from an
:application to support Python as script language.
:
:This way works well for Windows and (for simple scripts which
:do not load other modules) also for Linux.
:
:Unfortunately I get an "undefined symbol" error when I try to
:load other modules with the import statement on Linux.
:When I try to laod Tkiter in a simple test script, I get this
:error message on stderr from the embedded python interpreter:
:
:
:
:  Traceback (most recent call last):
:
:    File "<string>", lind 2, in ?
:
:    File "/usr/lib/python2.1/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
:
:      import _tkiter # If this fails your Python my not be configured for Tk
:
:  ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_tkiter.so: undefined symbol: _Py_NoneStruct


If this is a direct snip, and not a transcription, the problem is sa
typo: _tkiter is used instead of _tkinter


:  How can I verify, that this symbols are in the shared library?

Use objdump on the shared library

Mats Wichmann



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 14:24:12 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:24:12 -0800
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
In-Reply-To: <20020313185236.GB1227@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org>
	<3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch>
	<DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net>
	<3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch>
	<m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com>
	<m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk>
	<20020313092857.4765dd0d.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
	<20020313185236.GB1227@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <20020313112412.28c8e0af.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:52:36 +0100
Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Apart from that, many people might fear that hacking the internals of a
> COM implementation might make their head explode.

Mine would.  Come to think of it, having one's head explode might be
preferable.

lost-a-leg-just-trying-to-use-MS-Word-yesterday-ly yrs,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar  9 23:31:27 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:31:27 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:

>> I'm considering writing a wxWindows app for Win32.  The only
>> way I'm willing to do this is by doing all of the development
>> under Unix, and then grit my teeth while I package up the
>> final product for Win32.
> 
> Please tell us you are willing to bend a little and at least
> *test* under Win32 before you deliver it.  Evidence from the
> Era of Java shows that nothing is write-once-run-anywhere...

I'll test it a bit, though there are others who will probably
do a lot more testing than I will.  I've never found that the
author of a program is very good at testing it.  Write once,
debug everywhere...

>> Optimally, it would be a single "exe" file that doesn't
>> require any installation procedure.  
> 
> That's too much to ask for even a native Windows app in most
> cases these days.

That's kind of sad, but I figured as much.  The only real
stand-alone Win32 app I've seen in a long while is puTTY. Are
statically linked apps just not possible under Win32, or just
not practical?

>> If that's not possible, it would be permissible to use a 
>> typical "isntall-wizard" type installation ...
> 
> Great, you have several options available.
> 
>> It looks like Gordon McMillan's installer might fit the bill.
> 
> That's probably one.  I haven't used it. 
> 
>> Anybody care to share any experiences distributing wxWindows
>> apps for Win32?
> 
> py2exe will do everything you need except the installer part
> of the puzzle.  But there are many installers available, 
> including freebie versions of some of the better ones.

Actually, I used to have a licensed copy of one of those -- I
think it was Wise.  It got lost when our offices moved, but I'm
sure one of the Windows guys has something similar.

> Use py2exe and you'll get a directory with the Python DLL, the
> wxPython DLL, your EXE, and a few other DLLs as needed (e.g.
> the native regular expression stuff if you use it).

I don't know diddly about DLLs, so pardon the ignorant
question: Can my DLLs be put in a private directory where my
EXE can find them?  I'd rather not put anything in any public
system directories.

> Package and ship, easy as pie.  (I've used PowerArc with 
> its option to package into a self-extracting ZIP as a
> poor-man's version of an installer and it worked nicely.)

Sounds like it might work.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! Am I in
                                  at               Milwaukee?
                               visi.com            


From =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=  Fri Mar 29 10:51:52 2002
From: =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?= (=?iso-8859-5?Q?=B4=D0=DC=F8=D0=DD_=B3=2E?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:51:52 +0100
Subject: Linux-related help
References: <mailman.1017252163.2262.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ca48d90$1@news.mt.net.mk>

> I'm having some unpleasant malloc/free problems at
> exit (sys.exit).  We have running software based
> currently on 1.5.2.  We're compiling on Linux with gcc
> 3.0.3 (on Solaris we were using Sun's compiler, not
> gcc, I think).
> 
> Unfortunately I have a 3rd party module I'm linking with 
> python that is rather ancient.  We first got it when using
> python 1.3, we "ported" it to 1.5.2, and I can't quite

If this module is some kind of binary, perhaps the problem is in
the interaction between this module and gcc 3.0 or glibc.





-- 
??????

   "One world, one web, one program"  -- Microsoft promotional ad
         "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer"  -- Adolf Hitler



From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Thu Mar 14 16:26:40 2002
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:26:40 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <a6nifr$eob$1@news.hccnet.nl> <a6ovtn$ged$0@216.39.172.122> <a6puqr$e33$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3c911290.612430616@news>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:57 +0100, anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton
Vredegoor) wrote:

>On 14 Mar 2002 01:55:03 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>Sorry, but that is not true of Delphi. Did you ever work Delphi from
>>the command line? You can easily write console apps that do not use GUI windows:
>>---
[...]
>
>>Well, please don't add to the confusion about Delphi's capabilities ;-)
>>You could put someone off that might like it ;-)
>
>Well I like Delphi myself and I don't want to put anyone off!
>However I just wanted to state that its very unnatural in Delphi to
>write a console app. For example open the IDE and click
>
>file-new-
>
>and then try to click on something that starts a new console
>application -). 

Console apps are not the only way to write Delphi programs that
start, do something, then exit. I do it all the time, it's very
very easy, and I'm not nearly smart enough to be able to figure
out how to write a console app in Delphi:

You simply edit the dpr file ("View Project Source") - remove
_everything_ (there's not that much there to begin with) and
in between the "begin" and "end" put whatever it is you want
the program to do. (You can add references to other units...).

It's the Application.This and Application.That in the dpr that 
sets up the message loop, etc - remove that and it's gone.

For some sorts of things I like this _better_ than a console
app - no GUI window, no console popping up either. (These
programs tend to get associated with Folder in the registry;
I right-click on a folder, select whatever and all the files
in the folder are processed in some way - no muss.)

>I do not want to criticize Delphi, I do want to state that object
>oriented programming can be so tightly coupled to GUI style program
>design that it can give the (false) impression that GUI style program
>design and OOP are unavoidably connected.
>
>Anton.


David C. Ullrich


From slime at vsnl.net  Fri Mar 22 08:06:53 2002
From: slime at vsnl.net (Prahlad Vaidyanathan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:36:53 +0530
Subject: How to set the Timestamp of a File
In-Reply-To: <20020322113321.7e52dba1.joerg_schuetter@heraeus-infosystems.com>
References: <20020322113321.7e52dba1.joerg_schuetter@heraeus-infosystems.com>
Message-ID: <20020322130653.GA1356@marvin.localdomain>

Hi,

This is my first post to this list, so a "Hi!" to everyone here.

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 J?rg Sch?tter spewed into the ether:
> Hi
> 
> How can I set the timestamp of a file (especially under windows) with
> python? In Unix/Linux there is a tool caled touch.
> There is no problem to read the timestamp, but how can I set the
> timestamp to a desired time?

According to the 2.2 docs, os.utime() works. For example, here is a very
simplistic touch :

<code>
import os, time

def touch (filename) :
    new_time = time.time()
    try :
        os.utime(filename, (new_time, new_time))
    except OSError :
        # Create the file, if it doesn't exist
        fd = open(filename,'a')
        fd.close()

if __name__ == "__main__" :
    touch(sys.argv[1])
</code>

HTH, 
pv.
-- 
Prahlad Vaidyanathan  <http://www.symonds.net/~prahladv/>

I drink to make other people interesting.
		-- George Jean Nathan





From wesc at deirdre.org  Tue Mar 12 15:03:19 2002
From: wesc at deirdre.org (wesc at deirdre.org)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:03:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: SV-SF Bay Area Python user grp (BayPIGgies) mtg 3/13 7:30pm
Message-ID: <200203122003.MAA14260@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

just a quick reminder about the BayPIGgies event tomorrow evening...
hope to see some of you there!

also, we are placing a call-for-talks for this monthly event.  if you
are working on a Python project and want to get the word out, or if
you are a company producing products using Python and would like to
share how Python has helped you "get it done," this is a great way to
let everyone know.  if you are interested in giving a such talk at one
of our meetings, please contact me directly.

thanks!

-wesley



When:  March 13, 2002, 7:30-9pm
Where: Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA
Title: BioPython

Jeffrey Chang (School of Medicine, Stanford University) founded the
BioPython project in 1999 to promote the development of shared software
infrastructure in bioinformatics.  His talk will cover the architecture
and capabilities of Biopython and also give a sneak preview of the
upcoming version. 

Click on BayPIGgies link below for more info, including driving
directions, past meetings, schedule, etc.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall PTR, ? 2001
    http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/

Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group (BayPIGgies)
    http://deirdre.org/baypiggies

wesley.j.chun :: wesc at deirdre.org
cyberweb.consulting : henderson, nv : cyberweb at rocketmail.com
http://roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Mar 26 23:26:14 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:26:14 -0800
Subject: PyThreadState_DeleteCurrent()
Message-ID: <20020327042600.GD10449@isis.gerrietts.net>

I'm sure this should be obvious to anyone who understood the evolution
of the problem PyThreadState_DeleteCurrent() was designed to call, but
it unfortunately is not to me.

I've been following the "invalid tstate" problem through history,
trying to backport fixes into a 1.5.3 interpreter. The majority of the
glitches that resulted went away with the fixes from 1.6.

Now I've finally gotten some time and permission to move forward on
porting us to a newer interpreter. Some of the extensions we use,
though -- notably the ILU module -- is written to the older API.

Now, we don't seem to be having invalid tstate problems any more, but
I noticed, when I was tracking down the invalid tstate bug, that 2.1.2
included some additional fixes for tstate problems. The solution was
to add new API -- PyThreadState_DeleteCurrent() split from
PyThreadState_Delete().

But ... what's the difference? When is PyThreadState_DeleteCurrent()
the appropriate call, and when PyThreadState_Delete()? I've looked,
and the docs haven't been updated to reflect this API change.

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Whenever people agree with me I always 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     feel I must be wrong." --Oscar Wilde



From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 10:28:05 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:28:05 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net> <slrna8p159.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <924j8.19297$N7.4387774@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Tim Hammerquist wrote:
>
>> Didn't you know? Microsoft invented Open Source!  ;)
> 
> No, that was Al Gore!

Ya know, I've actually read the transcript of that interview.
He never claimed to have invented the Internet, only to have
been responsible for funding it.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Of course, you
                                  at               UNDERSTAND about the PLAIDS
                               visi.com            in the SPIN CYCLE --


From SSchukat at dspace.de  Mon Mar  4 11:50:54 2002
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:50:54 +0100 
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13B0B8@PDC-DSPACE>

Just change in the registry the file assoziations.
Is this case you have "Edit", "Edit in 22",  "open" (default), "open in 22"
E.g. with the shown regfile (paths must be changed according to the
installation)

	Stefan

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell]
@="open"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\Edit in 22]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\Edit\Command]
@="F:\\Python22\\lib\\site-packages\\Pythonwin\\pythonwin.exe /edit \"%1\""

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\Edit]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\Edit\Command]
@="F:\\Python21\\PythonWin\\PythonWin.exe \"%L\""

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\open]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\open\command]
@="F:\\Python21\\python.exe \"%1\" %*"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\open in 22]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\Shell\open in 22\Command]
@="F:\\Python22\\python.exe \"%1\" %*"




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Becker [mailto:robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 5:27 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
> 
> 
> Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
> default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
> without drowning. 
> -- 
> Robin Becker
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From metaliu at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 16:47:57 2002
From: metaliu at yahoo.com (BL)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:47:57 -0800
Subject: new images from strings using PIL
Message-ID: <a5osud$nj1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

New at python and PIL so bear with me:

I'm having difficulties creating images from strings.  Basically, I have a
string of integers I would like to create an image from.  I'm trying to use
python's PIL function Image.fromstring() to do this (any other methods of
doing this would be appreciated).  So I do:

pixels = "1 2 3 4 5 6" //test pixels
im = Image.fromstring("I", (2,1), pixels) //create a 3x2 image from pixels

I'm not actually sure how to read the pixel data in im.  im.getdata()
returns:
<ImagingCore object at 00810B08>

Also, im.getextrema() returns:
(540155953, 540287027)

These values are obviously wrong.  Why isn't my 3x2 image being created with
the proper pixel intensities?

Thanks in advance,
Bill




From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Wed Mar 27 00:25:23 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (A.Newby)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 05:25:23 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: Why won't it work?
Message-ID: <Xns91DEA230DC824AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>


Hi.

Below is an example exercise from "An Introduction to Tkinter" by Fredrik 
Lundh. It simply creates a box with a quit button in it. Problem is, 
everytime I click Quit, the program freezes. 

Is this a rare but well known bug with Tkinter, Python 2.2, or Windows 98? 
Or is more probable that it's cuz my system is screwed?


# File: hello2.py

from Tkinter import *

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):

        frame = Frame(master)
        frame.pack()

        self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red", 
command=frame.quit)
        self.button.pack(side=LEFT)

        self.hi_there = Button(frame, text="Hello", command=self.say_hi)
        self.hi_there.pack(side=LEFT)

    def say_hi(self):
        print "hi there, everyone!"

root = Tk()

app = App(root)

root.mainloop()


-- 
cdewin at dingoblue.net.au


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Wed Mar 20 07:14:50 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:14:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Telnetlib - Clearing/resetting within a Telnet Object
References: <3C977D0C.B925E0EF@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a79ufq$s7g$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Mike Lammon <mlammon at nc.rr.com> writes:

>I am writing a small server program to interact with an external
>machine.   (It is non-unix).    The program connects fine.  It
>issues the commands and receives data fine (most of the time).


>This is the problem.  The machine I am connected too sends out
>system messages, etc to users who are connected (telnet).  I
>can't turn off these system messages so that is not an option.

>The next time I issue a command from the client side, It
>will return the data but its not from the current command
>issued.  It returns the next serious of data in sequence.

>I need a way to clear/reset (without destroying the telnet
>session) , then issue the current command.

You haven't given much context but if you can issue commands other than those
to retrieve data AND the remote system only outputs systems messages when the
user is inactive you could send comments and use the echo reply to
synchronise.  However if the remote system just spews random text to the
screen then you could try making the remote system send multiple copies of the
data until you get 2 identical results in a row (more if you want to be
absolutely sure).  Or you could install something on the remote system which
your telnet program calls to run the commands and collect the output and then
send the data back to you (either using the above method or out of band).

Well those are some ideas.

Eddie


From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 14:50:58 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:50:58 GMT
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net><CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com><trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1016218106.2021.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Cgsk8.17912$P4.1544592@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Yes, you're right!  I asked my friend the same question because I was doing
that for my previous company, but they don't want to send a mail to the
users.  Second, again, I want to understand more about how the SMTP protocol
works for my TCP/IP class project.

Thanks for yuor input!

Billy Ng


"Cliff Wells" <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016218106.2021.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:01 GMT
> Billy Ng wrote:
>
> > Nothing evil here.  I have 2 reasons why I would do this program.  Firs,
> it
> > is my TCP/IP concept class's project.  Basically, I want to try what the
> > book tells in to code, but I notice it does not work the way it says in
> so
> > many commercial SMTP servers.  Second, I have been unemployed for about
4
> > months.  My friend's company needs a program to verify the users who
> > registered to their service.  They found out many registered users were
> > using fake addresses.  I just want to try this program to see if I will
> get
> > a job there.  That's all!  I really do appreciate if you would provide
> any
> > info for me to complete this project.
>
> Why not do like many others do: send a confirmation email to the address
> and require a reply from that address to complete registration.
>
> --
> Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
> Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
> (503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
>
>




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar 31 07:36:11 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:36:11 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2> <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net> <a807qp$ojhct$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a86vrr$g1p$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <a807qp$ojhct$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>, Emile van Sebille wrote:

>"Charl P. Botha" <cpbotha at i_triple_e.org> wrote in message
>news:slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha at crabtree.cpbotha.net...
>> In article <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list at python.org>,
>> David Ascher wrote:
>>> Thanks for all the interest in ActivePython.  We hope to not have
>these
>>> kinds of delays in the future.

>> Just remember not to split your infinitives in the future. ;)


> There is no longer consensus that splitting infinitives is wrong due to
> the awkward constructs avoiding it often gives rise to.

>Emile van Sebille

 There is also no longer a consensus that dangling prepositions
 are something up with which one should not put.

 The passive voice makes most of these statements longer and
 more awkward.  Try:

 	Avoiding split infinitives often makes for awkward constructs.

 or:

 	Some argue that ...

 or even:

 	There is growing dissent on whether the avoidance of split
	infinitives is worth the awkwardness that ensues.

 Depending on whether the emphasis was intended to be on the
 avoidance of split infinitives, or on the emerging controversy
 in some grammarian community.  Notice that the last of my examples
 slipped back into the passive voice and grew much longer.

 The active voice is generally more concise.  Verbiage is often in
 the passive voice.  
 
 Use of the passive voice conveys a more detached tone and often 
 brandishes an academic and objective veneer.  In other words, it's 
 used to sound intellectual.
 
 (BTW: I often find myself slipping into the passive voice, and I 
 often have to back up and delete whole paragraphs to extricate my
 message from obscurity).
 


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Thu Mar  7 17:36:08 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:36:08 -0600 
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?)
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B53@SRM201002>

> 
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:47:49 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
> wrote:
> > But there are a few warts in the design, where instead of 
> > just using Python I have to stop and explain some unnatural
> > unintuitive syntax.
> 
> You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what 
> you think it means.
> 
>     You killed my language, prepare to die!
> 
> </Inigo Montoya>
> 

Or, you could propose an excersize for your students, like:

"Make a module which will create a helper object, to make
prettier loop sequences."

And propose a notation, like:

>>> for ix in Ints[0, ...]:
...   do_something(ix)

will loop from zero onward, one by one; and:

>>> for ix in Ints[0, 3, ...]:
...   do_something(ix)

will loop from zero onward, three-by-three; and:

>>> for ix in Ints[0, ..., 10]:
...   do_something(ix)

will loop from zero up to (including) 10; and...

>>> for ix in Ints[0, 3, ..., 10]:
...   do_something(ix)

will do the obvious.


So, I propose an answer to this, and here it is.

Just do a "from ints import Ints" at the beginning of the program.

Have a nice evening :-)

-gustavo

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From joonas at olen.to  Sun Mar 10 17:39:03 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:39:03 +0200
Subject: newbie needs help with tkinter
References: <1Myi8.13667$%d1.409160@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <3C8BE087.3BDEA8E8@olen.to>

Sacchi wrote:
> 
> I've just learned the main rules of python(I already knew both java and
> C). Now I'm trying to get something out of Tkinter, but while running
> this sample program (made by myself) I encountered a problem. I wanted
> that by clicking on the "configura" command under the "File" menu the
> frame would get yellow and that a label would appear on it. The
> function works(the line "print "hello!"" gets executed) but the gui
> window doesn't change. I even tried to use the widget redraw methods
> but with no success... anyone can help me please?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Marco
> 
> --------- Program Code ----------------------
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class Application(Frame):
> 
>         def __init__(self,master=None):
>                 Frame.__init__(self,master)
>                 menubar=self.addmenubar()
>                 master.config(menu=menubar)
>                 menubar.mainloop()
> 
>         def addmenubar(self):
>                 menubar=Menu()
>                 filemenu=Menu(menubar)
>                 menubar.add_cascade(menu=filemenu,label="File")
> #these lines got shifted by the newsreader program, but all belong to
> #the addmenubar function
> filemenu.add_command(label="Configura"command=self.configframe)
Isn't a comma required here? ---------> ^

>         filemenu.add_command(label="Lavora")
>                 return menubar
> 
>         def configframe(self):
>                 self.set(bg="yellow")
>                 w=Label(self,fg="blue",text="prova")
>                 w.grid()
>                 self.update_idletasks()
>                 print "hello!"
> 
> #main
> 
> root=Tk()
> applicazione=Application(root)
> root.mainloop()
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------
> remove "nospam" from email address to answer
> -----------------------------------------------------


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar  1 16:23:16 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:23:16 -0800
Subject: mult-indexed xrange?
References: <slrna7vqm8.13q.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <a5orrg$8vdck$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Huaiyu Zhu" <huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:slrna7vqm8.13q.huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com...
> The generator facility in 2.2 allows me to do something cool that I
always
> wanted: looping around multiple indices with just one for-statement,
as the
> following code does.  Is this available with some built-in functions?

for (x,y) in [(i,j) for i in range(2) for j in range(3) ]:
    print x,y
0 0 0
0 0 1
0 1 0
0 1 1
0 2 0
0 2 1
1 0 0
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 1 1
1 2 0
1 2 1
Press any key to continue . . .

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar 25 16:55:31 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:55:31 GMT
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017033998.23264.python-list@python.org> <a7nsn9$irm$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a7o6cj$7kd$0@216.39.172.122>

On 25 Mar 2002 19:10:33 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
> >>> [x<2 and 1 or x<5 and 2 or x<9 and 3 or x<=11 and 4 for x in xrange(11)]
                                                ^--irrelevant
> [1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4]
>

 >>> [x<2 and 1 or x<5 and 2 or x<9 and 3 or x<11 and 4 for x in xrange(11)]
 [1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4]

That is aesthetically more pleasing. Sorry, couldn't leave it be. ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar 11 11:15:55 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:15:55 +0100
Subject: python name spaces
References: <m3n0xfontm.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com> <3C8C45F2.E0F6D9EC@earthlink.net> <m3g037nm47.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <just-2E14F4.17155511032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <m3g037nm47.fsf at rmauctor.lsil.com>,
 Daniel Ortmann <dortmann at lsil.com> wrote:

> (I posted since I saw no PEP addressing these issues.)

Have you looked at PEP 227?
  http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0227.html

Just


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:49 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 18:46:49 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <a7qqhr$m5$1@panix1.panix.com> <jjb5-B81262.13422827032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> <mailman.1017263072.31748.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7tll9$k2v$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017263072.31748.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Aahz is always admonishing us to just use Queue.Queue.  Maybe it's time
>I paid a bit closer attention to what he's been saying...

<grin>  Thank Tim; he bashed it into my head, and all I'm doing is
carrying the torch.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From evil_wicked at ofir.dk  Thu Mar 14 05:41:05 2002
From: evil_wicked at ofir.dk (henrikb666)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:41:05 -0000
Subject: Newbie: Undefined reference when initializing Python
In-Reply-To: <uzo1cqqfi.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a6puo1+cgsb@eGroups.com>

--- In python-list at y..., Michael Hudson <mwh at p...> wrote:
> You need to link to Python; there should be a "-lpython" in there
> somewhere (and probably a "-L/some/path/or/other/" too).
The -l entry in the Makefile should point to the directory with
the libpython2.2.a file, right?

When the file is placed in /home/pos/Python-2.2, what should the
entry look like exactly, because I tried this without success
(yes, I know I am a Linux newbie!):

-lpython
-lpython2.2
-lPython-2.2
-L/home/pos/Python-2.2

Still get errors when compiling, either "cannot find -lpython2.2"
when using -l switches like above, or "undefined reference to
'Py_Initialize' like before when just using the -L swith.

Thanks again,

Best regards,
Henrik Jensen




From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Fri Mar  8 21:50:15 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:50:15 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <kuelivht8g.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <B8AEE297.4C02%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 3/8/02 12:19 PM, in article kuelivht8g.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi, "Erno Kuusela"
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

> In article <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira at cis.upenn.edu>, Fernando Pereira
> <pereira at cis.upenn.edu> writes:
> 
> | Another reason is that a JIT compiler may not help Python as much as Java,
> | because [...]
> 
> i think the last time there was an in-depth thread about this, many
> people speculated that a jit compiler could infact help python a lot.
> (perhaps a jit compiler can help java even more.)
> smalltalk and self implementation techniques were discussed.

The irreducible fact is that Python needs extensive runtime type checks,
Java doesn't. One could argue that agressive inlining of built-in operations
and type checks followed by removal of redundant machine instructions might
have the effect of removing most type checks, but that needs to be shown.

-- F



From dietmar at bronko.fh-wedel.de  Tue Mar 19 15:34:23 2002
From: dietmar at bronko.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:34:23 GMT
Subject: Serial Ports
References: <3c96c220$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrna9f8rk.b4.dietmar@bronko.fh-wedel.de>

Hi!

Jamie Carl wrote:
>     I'm still fairly new to Python so forgive me.  I'm hoping someone can
> point in the right direction regarding how I would go about accessing a
> serial com port from Python.  I'd like to do it mainly under Linux, but
> hopefully it will work under windows aswell.
> 
> Is it possible?  Can someone point me to some documentation or code samples?

Check out the Universal Serial Port Python Library:

http://balder.prohosting.com/ibarona/en/python/uspp/uspp_en.html

Hoping this helps,

Dietmar

-- 
I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 10 22:41:56 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:41:56 +1300
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3C880AC2.6070708@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C2784.A3605107@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Joshua Macy wrote:
> 
> But then you have to indent everything in the text to that level, which
> isn't quite the same as cut-and-paste arbitrary text any more.

True, but to me, that's a feature. It annoys me
that triple-quoted strings can't be made to fit
in with the indentation structure of the rest of
the program.

> If
> triple quoting isn't sufficient, I'd take that as a sign that the
> material should be a separate data file...

One problem with that is the hassle of making sure
that the separate file remains with the Python
code and is accessible from it. Maybe there should
be a function which will search for an arbitrary
file using the same rules as are used for finding
modules during import.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From dragon at china.org  Sat Mar  9 15:01:44 2002
From: dragon at china.org (Qiang.JL)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:01:44 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ISti8.89159$aFN.65869@news1.bloor.is>

"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list at python.org...
> Qiang.JL wrote:
> > I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
> > stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two
> > languages to improve my language view. There are two languages are on
> > the list: python and C++
>
> Learn C first.
>
> > do i need to learn C/C++ to be a good programmer?
>
> You can be a good Java programmer without knowing C.
> You can be a good Python programmer without knowing C.
> But every good *all-around* programmer I've met knows C.
>
> ## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/
>
>

Do you guys not agree to master C/C++, a large amount of time will be
required (somewhere on the net i saw it's appro 3-4 years.  whew!!)
In one i want to learn it but on the  other this time consuming issue scare
me .as the  bad tradeoff -- it's smarter to use a language that uses the
machine's time less efficiently, but your time much more efficiently.

am i whining? , :-)

and one more question,  what's you view of "you have mastered a language" ?
knowing syntax and grammer is the begining to master, then know how to use
them(wisely) and  coding coding ... after certain long time , that you call
you master the language? As the same data structure and programming mind
almost  apply to any language, i never so sure if i master a language or
not, and only feel i can use this or that language do the job. Or maybe this
can be said there is no such thing you master the language, It's only you
know this language better and have more experience with it.

Those are the questions poping up in my head once in a while when i am
tempted by some fance widely used languages and wondering should i give it a
go by putting aside the one i am using which i am not sure if i've mastered
it yet.

sincerely thanks any input which will help me explore the programmer world
.....

Q.




From md_lazreg at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 20:16:56 2002
From: md_lazreg at yahoo.com (mohamed lazreg)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:16:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Packaging tool
In-Reply-To: <a7gi2h$4mk$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20020323011656.67443.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gillou <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote:
> "make" seems to be what you're looking for.
> It's not in python, but it does the job.

Nice try...:):):P. By a packaging tool I do not mean a
make utility. I have in mind some thing like dpkg, the
Debian package management system. (but I would like to
have it in python).

Thank you anyway...

Mohamed


> "mohamed lazreg" <md_lazreg at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans
> le message news:
> mailman.1016831987.19520.python-list at python.org...
> > Dear Pythoneers,
> >
> > I have been encouraged by the responses I got
> about my
> > bug tracking system question... So now I am
> looking
> > for a free packaging tool writeen in python (it
> has to
> > be in python)... By a packaging tool I mean a tool
> > that goes into a development area of a software,
> takes
> > the correct files and binaries depending on some
> user
> > parameters (configuration files) then creates a
> > package ready to distribute...
> >
> > Thank you again for all your help...
> >
> > Mohamed
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy
> Awards?
> > http://movies.yahoo.com/
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From benc1 at today.com.au  Mon Mar 11 19:40:02 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 16:40:02 -0800
Subject: Porcess control on win32
References: <8beb91f5.0203101746.544e64dd@posting.google.com> <3C8C204F.1080100@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0203111640.484e6a36@posting.google.com>

Thanks Mark ..


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 16 15:57:27 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:57:27 +0000
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
 <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276@newsc.telia.net> <a709gk$m69$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <U$0UYJA3G7k8EwYZ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

This all seems a bit wrong to me. The server is surely the program that
implements the communication protocol. Calling its local representative
'server' seems to me like calling a socket object 'modem' or 'serial
port' or even 'server' since sockets often represent remote servers.

Of course we're in real Caroll country here with names of names of
things etc. 
-Bolting down the rabbit hole-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 20:23:29 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 20:23:29 -0500
Subject: multithreading and Tkinter
References: <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu> <m3pu1yrz2w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns91E2A4FE99EA8JamesLLugojcom@216.148.53.85>
Message-ID: <a88cqh$acj$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <Xns91E2A4FE99EA8JamesLLugojcom at 216.148.53.85>,
James Logajan  <JamesL at Lugoj.com> wrote:
>martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote:
>>
>>  [ On a thread signalling the Tkinter mainloop thread: ]
>> If you want to delete the need for an after() method altogether, you
>> could register an after_idle callback. You can do that from a
>> different thread; Tkinter will call the after_idle callback from the
>> same thread that runs the mainloop.
>
>Has anyone ever tried using after_idle in a worker thread as a way to 
>signal a Tkinter mainloop thread? I'm wondering if this proposal is 
>really thread safe, since technically a worker thread is making a call to 
>Tk (even if it is nothing more than registering a callback) while the 
>mainloop thread may also be in the process of making calls to Tk. I haven't 
>tried it but have been considering it, but wanted to know if this was a 
>reasonable solution.

In theory, yes.  Whenever your worker thread is active, it holds the GIL
and things are safe -- sort of.  The problem is that once you've called
after_idle, it's possible for the GIL to switch away unless after_idle
is a C function that does not release the GIL.  So you'll have to do
some poking around in Tkinter to find out.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 09:48:56 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:48:56 +0100
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015635435.10059.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20020310094916.372$2q@news.newsreader.com>

Roy Smith, 12 range() in 6100 lines
David Mertz, 2 in 3100
James Althoff, almost 300 in Jython code

James, is it too difficult to extend java inherited classes
to behave in a more pythonic tradition way?

For instance, instead of collection.getCount() have the
chance to use collection.__len__()?

I guess that is not possible to override a superclass,
right?

Regards,
-Hernan




From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  8 13:25:16 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:25:16 -0600
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
In-Reply-To: <20020308153801.GD2591@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLOEPKDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Le 08/03/02 ? 07:21, N Becker ?crivit:
> > Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
> > a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).
> > [...]
>
> Just out of interest: what's that good for?

I think N Becker is asking for two different things.

1.  Quoting.  For example, suppose the character $ had
the effect of "quoting" the following Python expression.
Just as "" marks turns something into a string, the $
turns it into a parse tree.

Here's how you might use it.

  def sortlist(lst, code = $cmp(a, b)):
      cmp_function = lambda a, b: eval(code)
      lst.sort(cmp_function)

  x = [...]
  sortlist(x, $(cmp(a.name, b.name) or cmp(b.date, a.date)))

In Lisp, the apostrophe ' is the quote character.

Quoting is important in languages where you can extend
the syntax yourself.  Lisp is such a language, and it
uses quoting to implement features like (delay) and (force)
below.

2.  Lazy evaluation.  This is easier to describe, I guess. :)
Laziness is not evaluating something until you actually need
the result.

xrange() is lazy.  range() is eager.
Generators are lazy.  List comprehensions are eager.

You can use laziness to handle huge or infinite amounts of
information.  Think of the typical generator example, which
calculates Fibonacci numbers.  Obviously you can't calculate
that sequence eagerly; it's infinite.

Scheme has language features (delay) and (force) that support
laziness.  SICP (Abelson, Sussman, Sussman) discusses them in
the context of "streams", which are a sort of cousin of
iterators (different philosophy though).
  http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-24.html
By the way, I recommend reading this book from page 1 onward.
Lisp doesn't subscribe to "Flat is better than nested";
this book will teach you the opposite way of thinking.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 20 15:43:29 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:43:29 -0800
Subject: eval()
In-Reply-To: <a7arji+u1l8@eGroups.com>
References: <a7arji+u1l8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020320124329.54956d70.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:31:46 -0000
maximilianscherr wrote:

> what does eval exactly do?
> 
> could it do somehting like opening a text file with this:
> 
> hello = 1
> if hello = 1:
>   print 'yeah'
> 
> eval(readline()[:-1])
> ...

You would want exec for that.  eval is for evaluating an expression, not a
statement:

Python 2.2 (#1, Mar 15 2002, 11:52:42) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a = eval("1 + 2")
>>> a
3
>>> exec "a = 2 + 3"
>>> a
5
>>> 


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar  4 02:54:13 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:54:13 +0100
Subject: functional programming with map()
References: <mailman.1014667482.23800.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-FEA312.13144225022002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C7AFA8B.47A23F10@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a5v1bk$92n$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <just-1A5ED4.08541304032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <a5v1bk$92n$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>,
 "Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote:

> "Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:3C7AFA8B.47A23F10 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz...
>
> > Well, that's more of an "accidental" side effect.
> > Ideally, Guido would use his time machine to go back
> > and make for-loop control variables local to the
> > loop, so that the same could then be done for LCs.
> 
> Actually, Guido would not use the time machine.
> He assures me that exposing the looping variable was
> done on purpose and that the alternative was considered
> and dismissed.  The rationale for exposing the loop
> variable is to make the list comprehension perform
> identically to its for-loop equivalent.

I think Greg's talking about the loop variable(s) in the _traditional_ 
for loop.

Just


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Tue Mar 19 03:06:19 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:06:19 +0100
Subject: modifications of PythonWin?
References: <a76mps$itrmm$1@ID-136433.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a76rhf$k35$1@nixe.ISAR.net>

Alex K. Angelopoulos wrote:

> I'm looking for information on the PythonWin IDE - specifically, any
> modifications or customizations that may have been done to it in the past.
I have made a small patch to allow SourceSafe checkins (see 
http://p-nand-q.com/pythonwin-vss.htm). But what kind of customizations are 
you looking for (or have you planned on doing yourself) specifically? 


From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Wed Mar 20 11:55:21 2002
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:55:21 +0100
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com> <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3C984F44.1090001@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C98BEF9.4090200@dcube-resource.be>

> May I ask you what the scale for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
> related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
> Python?

FWIW, a recent benchmark test in Eweek showed MySQL to be comparable to 
Oracle 9i with respect to both performance and scalability.
See http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=708&a=23115,00.asp

Regards,
Jan





From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar  8 18:02:01 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 15:02:01 -0800
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com> <3C88E7B4.A910D281@earthlink.net> <ubsdzt27l.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <7xvgc6k6ja.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> The combination of lazy evaluation and non-functional semantics are
> only good for creating confusion.
> 
>          functional        non-functional
> strict       ml                 python
> lazy       haskell               brrr

What do xrange, xreadlines, etc. do, if not lazy evaluation?


From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Sun Mar 24 13:28:55 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:28:55 +0100
Subject: Pyro: mailing list available
Message-ID: <a7l5t8$a53$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

For those people interested in Pyro (http://pyro.sourceforge.net),
I've added a mailing list. This makes discussing Pyro issues a lot
easier than using the forum on the sourceforge site.

If you're interested in subscribing, visit
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pyro-core

Irmen de Jong





From inigoserna at terra.es  Mon Mar  4 11:48:34 2002
From: inigoserna at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?= Serna)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 17:48:34 +0100
Subject: ANN: lfm 0.8
Message-ID: <1015260514.2805.25.camel@lethe.infernus.org>

Hello, 

I've uploaded lfm v0.8 on its web site: 

http://www.terra.es/personal7/inigoserna/lfm

[With this release, I have finished all the features I want for lfm, 
so I hope to release v1.0 in May. These 2 months will be spent fixing bugs
and maybe adding features people want. Nevertheless current version is very
robust and stable, I use it daily without problems.]


lfm is a 'midnight commander'-clone written in Python and licensed under
GNU Public License. It should work on any UNIX with a modern (n)curses
library and Python curses module compiled in. See README file or visit
the web page for more information. 


Changes since version 0.7: 

Version 0.8 ("Close to Paradise") - 2002/03/04:

  + Implemented VFS feature to enter into .tar.gz and .tar.bz2 files
  + Panelize vfs option in find/grep implemented
  + Tree panel implemented
  + 'lfm' and 'pyview' are simple scripts now, not just a copy of the .py files>    __init__.py contains global variables now
  + A new message window is used to show  work in progress, in place of a
    message in status bar. 'run_thread' function has been cleaned too
  + Copy / move features now use my own function to walk trees, instead of
    'shutil.copytree' which originates some problems and bugs
  + In ChangePermissions window, the cursor movement is circular now
  + Change copyright date to years 2001-2
  + I don't need a crypt / uncrypt feature, so eliminated from TODO list
  + Many bug fixes and functions rewrites. See ChangeLog for complete list
      - lfm:
          * if panel2 shows 'a' file in panel, and in panel1 'a' is moved or
            deleted, lfm crashes
          * after moving a file cursor goes to next directory as deletion does
          * catching an exception after not been able to copy => it crashed
            when trying to delete copied files
          * "messages.SelectItem, messages.FindfilesWin, messages.MenuWin,
            messages.ChangePerms: upperleft corner disappears"
          * findgrep: fix bug: if selected file has a ':' in name
      - pyview:	
	  * changing 'addch' by 'addstr' shows individual chars >= 0xA0 (meta
            chars) correctly, neither in reversed video or as 2 chars
          * "if wrap mode => fix prev/next page & up/down cursor". Now 
            they move to screen lines, not to physical lines


Best regards, 

I?igo Serna

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From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar 25 20:15:21 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 01:15:21 GMT
Subject: Doing a ps in windows.. (Is application XYZZY running?)
References: <m38z8g74hw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <a7oi39$tq0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:54:19 GMT, Andrew Markebo <flognat at flognat.myip.org> wrote:

>*blush* yeah I know.. not really.. here, only almost :-)
>
>I have the windows-compiled python 2.2, and I would like to see if
>Opera or Netscape is running on my computer (poor sod, running Win2k,
>XP or 98).. How do I do this, I suppose I could use something in the
>win32api, but what is something.. :-) ??
>
>On unix I do "ps -ef | grep netscape" ;-)
>
There are correpsonding things on NT4 at least:

 >>> def pidmatch(x):
 ...     import os
 ...     pidlines = os.popen('pstat | findstr/R/I "^pid.*'+x+'"').readlines()
 ...     return [line.split()[-1] for line in pidlines]
 ...
 >>> pidmatch('iexplore')
 []
 >>> pidmatch('netscape')
 ['netscape.exe']
 >>> pidmatch('sys')
 ['System', 'systray.exe']

You could read the whole pstat result and do the grep/findstr function
in pidmatch, but I was inspired by your unix example ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  1 07:07:39 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:07:39 -0500
Subject: newbie lists and code examples for OOP.
References: <mailman.1014975303.15829.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C7F6F0B.9B606460@engcorp.com>

skoria wrote:
> 
> Firstly: is there a better forum for newbie questions like this one?
> It's hard for me to post to a high traffic list, and maybe there's a
> local uk based one or one specifically aimed at newbies.
> 
> I'm trying to write a class where one function calls a method in the
> same class. Right now I'm doing this with trial and error, and I don't
> really understand where I need to put parentheses, use (self), etc. I
> can't find any "functional" examples of object oriented programming on
> any online tutorials, or any simple programs already written that can
> be used as a good tool to figure out how to call functions within
> classes in python, when to use self.* what internal functions (like
> __init__) can be used for. Lots of theory on this, but no functional
> examples.

I'm not sure if by "functional" you mean "working examples" rather
than "functional programming" in the computer science sense...

If the former, have you looked in the python\lib folder to examine
the source code for all the standard modules.  At least some of them
are object-oriented with samples of what you are looking for, and more.

-Peter


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Sun Mar 31 18:50:51 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.44.0203300124360.5833-100000@death.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>  <roy-F52402.08143430032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaaf86q.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <roy-F52402.08143430032002 at news1.panix.com>, Roy Smith wrote:
>What should the following examples print?
>
>>>> print {} == False
>>>> print {} is False
>
>I'm convinced the second one should print "False", but I'm not really sure 
>about the first.  I also assume that

This is dealt with in the PEP. {} != False.

>>>> print False is not True
>
>should print "True"?

Of course. (Or 1, if str(True) ends up being "1".)

>For those thinking ahead to obfuscated Python contests, I can see having 
>lots of fun with this.  The following, for example, is a valid Python 
>program under this PEP:
>
>False is not True is not "False is not True"

How is this any more or less obfuscated than

0 is not 1 is not "0 is not 1"

?

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From cunsan at lycos.com  Tue Mar 26 22:05:40 2002
From: cunsan at lycos.com (stclaus_imi)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:05:40 -0000
Subject: running python on win2k
In-Reply-To: <uofhbec8n.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <a7rcu4+q7vd@eGroups.com>

thanks. it works. what about apache :). i read that you need to assoc 
the py extension and also ftype it. but how to do it on win2k easily?



--- In python-list at y..., Syver Enstad <syver-en+usenet at o...> wrote:
> "stclaus_imi" <cunsan at l...> writes:
> 
> > hi, all of you.
> > 
> > i downloaded python for win2k. i wonder how to run it via the 
command
> > 
> > line and over the apache/iis web server.
> > 
> 
> For using in cgi script with IIS use inetmgr (mmc snap in for iis) 
and
> configure the App Mappings for the .py ending to python "%s" %s.
> -- 
> 





From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 14:11:51 2002
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:11:51 +0000
Subject: Slices... what are they good for?
References: <e69f55af.0203201603.6384b720@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <21ck9us2iiecbhq5vm5j1udqde8sj3b7hs@4ax.com>

On 20 Mar 2002 16:03:51 -0800, johnl at axis.com.au (John Lehmann) wrote:

>I had forgotted slices existed, until I was making an object that I
>was pretending was a tuple.
>
>I was shocked to find that this didn't work:
>
>>>> l = ['a', 'b', 'c']
>>>> l[1:2]
>'b'
>>>> l[ slice(1,2) ]
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: sequence index must be integer

It strikes me as a definite wart that the builtin types don't support
generalised slices. Of course, adding such support is seriously
non-trivial, which is probably why it hasn't happened up to now (and
maybe never will...)

Paul.


From p.magwene at snet.net  Sun Mar  3 00:15:31 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul M)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 05:15:31 GMT
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
Message-ID: <Tjig8.5306$H17.1119368328@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>

Is it possible to create a regular expression for searching for the
outermost matching braces in a string in which there may be nested braces?

For example, given this string:

"A line of text with {multiple and {nested} braces} to {confuse} re!"

I'd like to create a regular expression which would find the substring:

"{multiple and {nested} braces}"

on the first search invocation, and then:

"{confuse}"

on the second invocation of the search method.


It would seem I would need some sort of negative lookbehind assertion, but
of arbitrary, rather than fixed length.  It's fairly straightfoward to write
a function to do this, but a suitable regular expression would save me a few
headaches.

Is what I'm asking possible?

Thanks,
Paul Magwene



From arturs at iidea.pl  Wed Mar  6 07:10:58 2002
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:10:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

Michael Str?der wrote:
>>>>>s = i("Value is $n")
> 
> Maybe it's me but I can't see the advantage over using
> 
> >>> s = "Value is %s" % (n)
> 
> How about providing a more complex example illustrating the benefits 
> of istring?

Should I paste from their page? ;)

        Why would I want to interpolate variables when I could use %s
        notation?

      Ask yourself which query is clearer:

      (1) db.query("""SELECT    foo, bar
                      FROM      %s
                      WHERE     rsrc_id = %s
                      AND       name = '%s'" % (table, rsrc_id, name))

      Or:

      (2) qry = istring("""SELECT   foo, bar
                           FROM     $table
                           WHERE    rsrc_id = $rsrc_id
                           AND      name = $.name""")
          db.query(qry)

      To make this even cleaner, we could write a function that took a
      regular raw string with istring interpolation, then made an istring
of
      it and submitted the query, like this:

      (3) db.iquery("""SELECT   foo, bar
                       FROM     $table
                       WHERE    rsrc_id = $rsrc_id
                       AND      name = $.name""")



It's not something revolutionary, just useful. If it was in standard Python,
I would probably use it every day.

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org


From garrett at bgb-consulting.com  Wed Mar 27 20:00:09 2002
From: garrett at bgb-consulting.com (Don Garrett)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:00:09 GMT
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <mailman.1017271784.23211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA26B2B.EA93374@bgb-consulting.com>


"Delaney, Timothy" wrote:
> 
> > From: Phlip [mailto:phlip_cpp at my-deja.com]
> >
> > We find just >having< a style guideline slightly more
> > important than the
> > value of any few marginal items in it.
> >
> > And we like to find ways to cure the "magic member bug". If
> > you can think of
> > any others, please share.
> 
> __slots__
> 
> Tim Delaney

  Um... this does help protect them from outside interferance, but doesn't in
any way require them to have been initialized in __init__, or even protect you
from a misspelled name, does it? Just trying to make sure that nothing goes on
with __names besides the name mangling into __class__name.

--
Don Garrett                             http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting                                      garrett at bgb.cc


From a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com  Thu Mar 28 20:05:53 2002
From: a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com (a.clarke11)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:05:53 +0000
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <mailman.1017278089.6649.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA3BDF0.5C4D8FF@pop.ntlworld.com>

Thanks everyone, some food for thought there, and it has helped my
thinking.

Tony



From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Mon Mar 25 15:54:19 2002
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:54:19 GMT
Subject: Doing a ps in windows.. (Is application XYZZY running?)
Message-ID: <m38z8g74hw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

*blush* yeah I know.. not really.. here, only almost :-)

I have the windows-compiled python 2.2, and I would like to see if
Opera or Netscape is running on my computer (poor sod, running Win2k,
XP or 98).. How do I do this, I suppose I could use something in the
win32api, but what is something.. :-) ??

On unix I do "ps -ef | grep netscape" ;-)

        /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From Ken.Peek at Engineer.com  Sat Mar 30 13:51:24 2002
From: Ken.Peek at Engineer.com (Ken Peek)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 10:51:24 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cfcf4b0d.0203301051.4c2e3917@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list at python.org>...
> > [Guido]
> > >>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
> > >>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
> > >>        as such.
> > 
> > [Ralph Corderoy]
> > > Unlike Tim to produce such a poor reason.  Has he been paraphrased a
> > > little too much?
> 
> [Tim]
> > Not in Guido's eyes <wink>.  We don't need 3 equivalent ways to turn an
> > arbitrary expression into a bool ("bool(x)" same-as "not not (x)" same-as
> > "truth(x)").  *Especially* if str(bool) and repr(bool) produce 'True' and
> > 'False', people have a legitimate need to make an arbitrary true/false
> > expression produce 0 and 1 too, if only to preserve 0/1-based true/false
> > output.  operator.truth() has always been the best way to do exactly that.
> > Alternatives like "(boolexpr) + 0" and "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and "(0,
> > 1)[boolexpr]" reek in comparison.
> 
> Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> an int is int(b).  Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for
> this purpose is backwards.  (IMO there's almost *never* a reason to
> import that module anyway.)
> 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

I don't see that adding a "bool" (or better: "boolean", since I HATE
abbreviated words) would be such a big issue.  This would allow for
better "readability" of the code.  ("Readability" being defined as
maximally exposing the intentions of the programmer to the largest
audience of readers as is practical.) Comparison operators (under the
hood) should return a "boolean", so that if you type:

>>> 1 < 2
True
>>> 1 > 2
False

Yes-- I think there should have to be some type conversion required if
you need to use your boolean in an expression.  The idea being, that
you shouldn't be using a "boolean" in an expression anyway, unless it
is some kind of obscure programming trick (which should be depricated
anyway.)

If no one can agree on how the boolean type should be implemented,
then leave it the way it is, and add a "readonly" keyword-- which
would be useful for other constants as well:

readonly:
    # attempts to write to these will throw a
    # "TypeError: attempted write to a constant"
    False = 0
    True = 1
    MY_CONSTANT = 42

As to the case of the keywords-- well, I prefer all uppercase for
constants, because I think they stand out better when reading code.  I
don't think this should be forced by the language though-- let people
do whatever they want-- why be a baby sitter?

Regardless of whether or not a boolean type is implemented-- in my
code, I would simply define:
TRUE = True
FALSE = False

And if the 'readonly' construct is implemented:
readonly:
    TRUE = True
    FALSE = False

I then use TRUE and FALSE in my code instead of True and False. 
Problem solved (for ME anyway).  The 'readonly' keyword would be VERY
helpful though (to catch programming mistakes)-- which happen a lot
for me, anyway...


From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar  3 23:31:58 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 20:31:58 -0800
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com>
Message-ID: <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3C829AA2.1B21E205 at arakne.com>,
Frederic Giacometti  <frederic.giacometti at arakne.com> wrote:
>Aahz Maruch wrote:
>> In article <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291 at news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>,
>> Frederic Giacometti <frederic.giacometti at arakne.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>In addition to all the benefits that Christian has described so far,
>>>stackless python would make it possible to have a different OS
>>>multi-threading implementation for calling external C/C++ libraries; one
>>>that does not require interpreter lock operations.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>Stackless just means that function calls executed by the bytecode are
>>>executed by a C function that returns immediately; thus disconnecting
>>>the C call stack from the virtual machine call stack.  In current
>>>python, they are interleaved one-on-one; making it impossible to switch
>>>context within the VM unnless you do Christian's last 'non-portable'
>>>assembly language manipulation.
>>
>> How's that again?  In the absence of pre-emptive thread scheduling, what
>> good is the immediate return from the C function?  More than that, how
>> can you possibly call external libraries without the interpreter lock,
>> if those libraries have any access to Python variables?  If they *don't*
>> have access to Python, how is that any different from just using the
>> macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS?
>
>Just reverse the paradigm: have the python VM run in a single thread,
>using stackless microthreads for python multithreading, and run the C
>calls in a pool of threads.  This way: no lock is needed, since only
>one thread runs the VM, with the help of microthreads, and C calls run
>in other threads.

This doesn't make any sense unless you assume OS-level threads, and I
thought part of the point of Stackless was to avoid requiring OS-level
threads.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From sam_collett at lycos.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 12:27:09 2002
From: sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 09:27:09 -0800
Subject: ADO GetRows() example for newbies
References: <f20ea932.0203010652.1045b7ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2030665d.0203010927.38edc51@posting.google.com>

How could you do pages of records (in ASP for example), you may only
want a few records at a time (if you have 1000 records for example)?
For example I may want a page with 10 records per page, with the page
numbers at the bottom.
For 100 records:
10 pages (10 links)
Start at 1 on page 1, 11 on page 2 etc)

TIA

tom at peresys.co.za (Tomasz Stochmal) wrote in message news:<f20ea932.0203010652.1045b7ff at posting.google.com>...
> #ADO GetRows() example
> 
> import win32com.client
> import pprint
> 
> def main():
>         ConnectionString = 'Provider=SQLOLEDB.1' \
>             +';Data Source=127.0.0.1' \
>             +';Initial Catalog=ZASecurities' \
>             +';User ID=sa' \
>             +';Password='
> 
>         SQL='SELECT TOP 1 * FROM TESTCASE'
> 
>         DBConnection=win32com.client.Dispatch('ADODB.Connection')        
>         DBConnection.Open(ConnectionString) 
>         try:
>             rs=win32com.client.Dispatch('ADODB.Recordset')
>             rs.Open(SQL,DBConnection)
>             try:
>                 # Info Row: Field Name/Type
>                 result=[]
>                 buf=[]
>                 for i in range(rs.Fields.Count):
>                     buf.append([rs.Fields.Item(i).Name,rs.Fields.Item(i).Type])
>     
>                 result.append(buf)
>     
>                 # Data Rows
>                 if not rs.EOF:
>                     data=rs.GetRows()
>                     assert len(data) > 0
>                     data=[[r[col] for r in data] for col in range(len(data[0]))]
>                     result.extend(data)
>             finally:
>                 rs.Close()
>     
>             pprint.pprint(result)
>         finally:
>             DBConnection.Close()
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     main()
> 
> 
> # Change ConnectionString & SQL


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  9 21:07:39 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:07:39 -0500
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <3c8a9261.149508269@news>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEANODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[brobbins333 at shaw.ca]
> the round() function will sometimes return a predictable result, as
> in:
>
> round(45.67891, 2)
> >>> 45.68
>
> but sometimes it will return something like:
> 
> round(56.78923, 2)
> >>> 56.789999999999999
> 
> 2.1 and 2.2 both behave this way on two different (Windows) computers.
> What's going on here?

Also on Linix, Mac, etc computers.  See

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html

round() usually does the best job that can be done.



From garry at sage.att.com  Mon Mar  4 10:47:05 2002
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:47:05 GMT
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
References: <mailman.1015157113.21698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8396F9.199D3E6B@sage.att.com>

Jimmy Retzlaff wrote:
> 
> dix wrote:
> > I need to know if there is a free library for Python to manage Twain
> > scanners in order to pilot the scanner and have an image
> representation
> > of the paper document.
> 
> The wonderful Daily Python-URL (http://www.pythonware.com/daily) just
> pointed to http://twainmodule.sourceforge.net a few days ago. 

but this only works on windows, making it useless for real computers.


-- 
Garry Hodgson                   Let my inspiration flow
Senior Hacker                      in token rhyme suggesting rhythm
Software Innovation Services    that will not forsake me
AT&T Labs                          'til my tale is told and done.
garry at sage.att.com


From tkeon0 at netscape.net  Thu Mar  7 20:31:26 2002
From: tkeon0 at netscape.net (Trevor Keon)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 17:31:26 -0800
Subject: Returning strings from DLLs written in Delphi
Message-ID: <e6bacef5.0203071731.d1d87df@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have been trying to get a DLL written in Delphi 5 to return a string
to Python 2.1.2 (i use windll to access the dll), and all I get is a
bunch of numbers(the numbers stay the same too).  I also had this
problem when trying to return integers, however adding stdcall to the
function export line solved that problem.  Unfortunately it hasnt
solved the problem with passing Strings.

I have also tried safecall, cdecl (even register and pascal...i was
getting deperate ;) ) with no luck.  I also tried using PChars instead
and Char, however no luck (the number did change though).

Does anyone have any ideas how to get around this problem?  I tried to
make the most basic code to return a string so I could hopefully beat
it into submission, but still havent got anything.  The code is:

...

function getString(): String; stdcall;  //can also add safecall,
cdecl, etc
  export;

...

function getString(): String;
begin
  Result := 'work';
end;

...

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 - Trevor


From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 04:49:11 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 09:49:11 -0000
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
References: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com> <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706@ruti.visi.com> <a678ud$30dv$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <a67d2n$2kp$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <a678ud$30dv$1 at news.idiom.com>,
Jim Dennis <jimd at vega.starshine.org> wrote:
> O.K. so what can I do for asynchronous I/O notification on 
> regular files?  How can I efficiently block and wake up when
> I/O is available on any of my file descriptors?  
>
> Don't tell me I have to go into a sleep and poll stat() or
> seek() loop!  It's hard to imagine that UNIX got this far 
> without offering a better solution than that!

If you run strace on "tail -f somefile", you'll find that sleeping and
stat'ing is what it's doing, so I don't think there's a better way.

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar  4 00:39:53 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:39:53 -0500
Subject: functional programming with map()
References: <mailman.1014667482.23800.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-FEA312.13144225022002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C7AFA8B.47A23F10@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <a5v1bk$92n$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:3C7AFA8B.47A23F10 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz...
> David Eppstein wrote:
> >
> > No side effects?  Try this:
> >
> > L = [x for x in range(10)]
> > print x
>
> Well, that's more of an "accidental" side effect.
> Ideally, Guido would use his time machine to go back
> and make for-loop control variables local to the
> loop, so that the same could then be done for LCs.

Actually, Guido would not use the time machine.
He assures me that exposing the looping variable was
done on purpose and that the alternative was considered
and dismissed.  The rationale for exposing the loop
variable is to make the list comprehension perform
identically to its for-loop equivalent.


Raymond Hettinger  a.k.a. rumour control




From joerg_schuetter at heraeus-infosystems.com  Fri Mar 22 05:33:21 2002
From: joerg_schuetter at heraeus-infosystems.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?SvZyZyBTY2j8dHRlcg==?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:33:21 +0100
Subject: How to set the Timestamp of a File
Message-ID: <20020322113321.7e52dba1.joerg_schuetter@heraeus-infosystems.com>

Hi

How can I set the timestamp of a file (especially under windows) with
python? In Unix/Linux there is a tool caled touch.
There is no problem to read the timestamp, but how can I set the
timestamp to a desired time?

Gru?
  J?rg Sch?tter

-- 
Dipl.-Ing. J?rg Sch?tter                                           -
Email   Joerg.Schuetter at heraeus-infosystems.com
Systemspezialist Internet, Sicherheit



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar 11 19:15:43 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:15:43 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <OF8209922E.E91747C8-ON88256B7A.00008BB1@i2.com>

[Philip Hunt]
> How about:
>
> def rowKeys(table):
>    return xrange(0, table.getRowCount())
>
> def someFunction():
>    for r in rowKeys(someTable):
>       #...iterate over all the rows in (someTable)
>
> Note that this is less cumbersome than your chosen:
>
>    for r in someTable.getRowCount():
>       #...iterate...

Assuming that I want to share and reuse this amongst the development team I
don't think I see that

    import tableutils
    for rowindex in tableutils.rowKeys(table):

or

    from tableutils import rowKeys
    for rowindex in rowKeys(table):

is *less* cumbersome than

    for rowindex in table.getRowCount():

But I can see why you might prefer using a helper function -- especially if
you don't want to type "getRowCount" a lot, if that's what you mean.

Thanks for your suggestion.

Jim




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 06:05:17 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:05:17 +0100
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C985678.8010200@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C986CED.6070104@bigfoot.de>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> For example, where I work, we have JRE for OS/390 (by IBM). Is there a 
> mainframe interpreter for Python? Or, will Jython do?

Google says there's a Python 1.4 port. But 1.4 is very old. I don't know 
of any newer ports. Jython should of course work just fine.

even-my-PDA-can-do-Python'ly yours,

Gerhard



From brueckd at tbye.com  Mon Mar  4 10:54:56 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:54:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rotor in Jython?
In-Reply-To: <7xit8daq4n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203040744460.29083-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 3 Mar 2002, Paul Rubin wrote:

> <brueckd at tbye.com> writes:
> > But the sorry history of rotors has nothing to do with rotor strength and
> > everything to do with short/obvious keys, the obvious starting text of the
> > messages (e.g. "No news to report"), and the limitations of mechanical
> > implementations. You can *always* make a rotor stronger by increasing the
> > length of the key - and at no additional computational cost.
>
> That's erroneous--if you count the rotor and plugboard permutations,
> the WW2 Enigma machines had a very large key space (maybe larger than
> 56-bit DES) but they were cryptanalyzed with fairly crude
> electromechanical devices (the "Bombe" was basically 6 Enigmas wired
> together).

But still the cryptanalysis was feasible because there was a small number
of rotors and the messages had known text.  For example, the Turing Bombe
worked so well because the Germans routinely spelled out officer titles in
the messages.

Thanks for the interesting discussion. This thread is getting tired so
I'll let it die now. ;-)

-Dave




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Mar 15 18:24:14 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:24:14 -0700
Subject: multiline raw input
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DA4@admin56.narex.com>

> From: les ander [mailto:les_ander at yahoo.com] 
> 
> Hi,
> i have a program that takes input from the command line
> however this input is multi-line and will have a lot of 
> backslashes I tried using sys.stdin but it ignores the 
> backslashes. i tried with raw_input but that only takes in 
> the first line
> 
> can some suggest a remedy?

Something like:

>>> def ml_input():
...    res = []
...    while 1:
...       line = raw_input()
...       if line == '.': break
...       res.append(line)
...    return ''.join(res)
...
>>> ml_input()
This
is a
little
test
.
'This is alittletest'
>>>

-- bjorn



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Mar 22 14:41:24 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:41:24 GMT
Subject: quick win32 pipe and objects question
References: <X0sm8.575$d7.169869@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <a7f4l7$g2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ENLm8.764$d7.238296@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

i seems that the pipe can only hold serialized data, at least that is what
the error message said.

It also seems that if several clients are writing to the pipe at the same
time, or in quick succession, that reading the data is best done with
cPickle to avoid errors (i have no numbers to justify this, it just seemed
more stable).

Lastly, putting a pause between writes seemed to help too ...
>>> for i in range(10):
...     time.sleep(0.5)
...     r = win32pipe.CallNamedPipe(pipename, i, 512, 0)

which leads me to think that a single named pipe just doesn't scale well,
which is not surprising as Mark H. said it wouldn't on pg 353 ;-)

-d


"Harald Schneider" <h_schneider at marketmix.com> wrote in message
news:a7f4l7$g2n$04$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Sorry for this newby-question .. why pickle ?
>
> "dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:X0sm8.575$d7.169869 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> > when writing and reading from a pipe, is it okay to do something like
...
> >
> > >>> t = (0, 1, 2, 3)
> > >>> r = win32pipe.CallNamedPipe(pipename, t, 512, 0)
> >
> > of should i pickle t first?
> >
> > -d
> >
> >
>
>




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Mar 27 22:26:24 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 22:26:24 -0500
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Shiv Shankar Ramakrishnan" <rshivs at nospam.hotmail.com> writes:

> Anyone knows just what in the world is going on? Has something happened
> (heaven forbid!) to the lead dev for ActivePython that they are so woefully
> behind now? Or is ActiveState not bothered about Python at all and more
> bothered about other things like Perl, Komodo etc? Thats their preorgative
> of course but I like the PythonWin IDE and now I can only get that with
> ActivePython since Mark Hammond moved there. Shouldn't there be some
> alternative source for getting PythonWin? How about the main Python
> distribution also doing PythonWin from CVS?

You don't need ActivePython for PythonWin - in fact you've never
strictly needed it.  ActivePython just happened to include it in their
consolidated package.  But you could always download the Win32
extensions separately and install them on top of a standard Python
installation (in fact that's the only way I've ever used them).

Mark's pages are at http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ where
you can download the extensions for any Python release (1.5.2, 2.0,
2.1 and 2.2).  When he left ActivePython, these pages once again
became the authoritative source for the extensions (as they were
before he moved to ActivePython).

(Mark's pages are also referenced from the main http://www.python.org
Python site under the download section in the Windows topic).

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Wed Mar  6 15:39:19 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:39:19 +0100
Subject: Threading help?
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>

Van,

VanL wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> This is my first time playing with python threads, and I am a little at
> a loss how to start.  Here is what I need to do:
> 
> I need three threads (at least):
> 
> 1. Every .1 second, retrieves some data via http from an adjacent
> machine on the network.  Easy enough with urllib.
> 2. Do processing on that data
> 3. Every .1 second, be ready to spit out the most recent results from
> the processing in response to an http query.  I've got the latest medusa
> distribution, and I was thinking about using that.   It doesn't really
> matter, though.
> 
> As you can see, I have two things that have soft real-time deadlines,
> and one thing that I want to do as fast as possible, but doesn't need to
> be real time.  This sounds like a job for threads.
> 
> I can do each of the individual parts, but I don't know how to combine
> them all so that each is running in a different thread, so that process
> 2 doesn't make the other two lose their timing.
> 
> Any help?

What would you gain from using separate threads for task 1 and 2, ie.
what's the point of getting new data (task 1) before the processing on that
data (task 2) has finished?

Assuming you combine task 1 and 2 in a single thread B, that thread should
yield a few times during your 0.1 second period to allow an evt. execution
of task 3 in thread C. In case you have thread priorities available 
you can give C a higher priority instead of yielding in B.

In case you decide to have task 1 in a separate thread A you 
can treat A as C. You might need to yield more often in B with two
other threads instead of one.

A simple reference to the last available processing result
can be shared between any pair of threads. Make sure to 
copy the reference (not the last result itself) in the receiver.

Have fun,
Ype

P.S. Yielding is bit ugly in CPython. Try time.sleep(0.001).


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Mar 29 19:10:58 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:10:58 -0800
Subject: First post!
In-Reply-To: <3CA50013.3582BC63@cam.org>
References: <3CA50013.3582BC63@cam.org>
Message-ID: <20020330001058.GE7602@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Zutroi Zatatakowski (abou at cam.org):
> I play a MUD called Core 2651 (http://coremurd.org) and in this MUD,
> there is a stock market. The various prices are all on the website and
> are updated every once in a while. So basically, I want a script that
> checks the page for the prices and print the output in a text file. 
> I've never done anything that touches the web or internet so I'm really
> puzzled. I'm not asking for someone to write it for me (don't spoil the
> fun :) but maybe there already are some scripts like that somewhere...
> Scripts that parse (is that right?) through a page and get different
> infos.

Check out urllib for retrieving the page:
    http://www.python.org/doc/2.2p1/lib/module-urllib.html

Check out string and re for parsing the page to grab the stuff you
want:
    http://www.python.org/doc/2.2p1/lib/module-string.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/2.2p1/lib/module-re.html

If that's not enough to get you productive, let me know where you're
having specific stopping points.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, 
geoff @ gerrietts.net        and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." 
http://www.gerrietts.net/                           --Oscar Wilde



From Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com  Thu Mar 14 19:52:12 2002
From: Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com (Gabe Newcomb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:52:12 -0800
Subject: Good book on Python?
Message-ID: <0C7CA8D8DF75494EB09AB6016990107FF08366@NOXMAIL.noetixad.com>

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but Learning Python by Lutz
& Ascher is great. If you get that and the Python Essential Reference,
you'll have all you need to get started.

If you do any work on Windows, I also heartily recommend Python
Programming on Win32 by Mark Hammond. It makes some wierd choices about
which topics to address (not enough sysadmin stuff for my taste), but it
covers a lot of useful stuff, and does it well.

Enjoy!!

Gabe Newcomb

-----Original Message-----
From: William Sonna [mailto:wlsonna at attglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:46 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Good book on Python?


On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:26:01, Antonis C Koutalos <ack at ee.ed.ac.uk> 
wrote:

> 
> Hi there,
>  I would greatly appreciate information about a good book on python. I
> have been programming C for a few years, but I know next to nothing
about
> python. Therefore, I would appreciate a book that describes the basics
of
> python as well as the more advanced features of the language.
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> -A.
> 

The Quick Python Book by Harms/McDonald is an excellent book if you 
want to get up to speed in a hurry.

The best way I can think of to describe it is as a "Cliff Notes" for 
Python.  Very terse and well-organized (and consequently VERY easy to 
browse) - just like Python itself.  The book has saved me many, many 
hours.

It focuses primarily on the base language - you won't find much about 
the more advanced packages, other than a terse, well-organized summary
of several of them (and information about where to get more info).

If there was a "Quick Java Book" or a "Quick C++ Book" I'd buy them in
a heartbeat.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 10:10:56 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:10:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org> wrote in 
news:slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org:

>>           * XXX do we need to store permissions?  The owner/group?
>> +         THE: no, not on windows.
> 
> Really?  Even on Windows, couldn't files be potentially owned by
> Administrator or some other user.  We should definitely have
> permissions and owner/group on Unix; can you tell me what Windows
> needs here?  (I assume MacOS X would be the same as Unix, and earlier
> MacOS versions aren't multi-user, so they don't need anything.)

On Windows systems all files on an NTFS partition have an owner and access 
control lists. The command "DIR /Q" displays the owner of each file, or you 
can add a column to the explorer view. By default I think each file is 
owned by the owner of the directory in which they are created 
(BUILTIN\Administrators for just about everything). My laptop also has a 
FAT partition. It seems that files on that are owned by 'Everyone'. :-(

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 24 17:12:40 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 23:12:40 +0100
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m34rj5k42v.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> yes I heard about that, but the semantics seem strange to me.
> open is not a file it is a function that produces an open file. 

It used to be a function that produces an open file, now it is a type
that produces an open file. Watch this:

>>> import httplib
>>> h=httplib.HTTP("localhost")
>>> print h
<httplib.HTTP instance at 0x816b85c>

So even though httplib.HTTP is a class (something that is very similar
to a type), you still can call it. Calling a type makes an instance of
the type.

> It's now not even amongst the built ins.

I don't understant this remark. open is certainly amongst the
built-ins:

>>> __builtins__.__dict__.has_key("open")
1

> what does X==type(X()) imply?

It implies that X is a type; calling a type gives an instance of the
type.

Regards,
Martin


From NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com  Tue Mar 12 18:59:15 2002
From: NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com (John Purser)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:59:15 GMT
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com> <a6l6p9.3vs6ro7.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <nDwj8.27965$af7.22882@rwcrnsc53>

I tried the same code and got no result.  The code would run, ask me how
high it should check, then nothing.  I tried a bunch of  'print' statements
to see where it was dying but it never seemed to run the code below the
'input()' statement.

Something's going on here.

John


"Sheila King" <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
news:a6l6p9.3vs6ro7.1 at kserver.org...
> [posted and mailed]
>
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:13 -0600, "Scott Kurland" <skurland at juggler.net>
> wrote in comp.lang.python in article <u8t22ns5jo7i46 at corp.supernews.com>:
>
> > Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?
>
> > #Searching for perfect numbers
> >
> > howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
> > for number in range (1,howhigh):
> >  factorsum = 0
> >  halfnumber=number/2
> >  for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
> >   if number/checking == int (number/checking):
> >    factorsum = factorsum + checking
> >  if number == factorsum:
> >   print number
> >
>
> What do you mean it isn't working? It ran without crashing when I tried
it.
> Here is the output from a sample run:
>
> >>>
> How high should I check?50
> 10
>
> >>>
>
> Are you expecting some other type of output? What are you expecting?
>
>
> > Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.
>
> Oh, now what newsgroup mistreated you so, that you would expect such a
> thing? We don't do that here in comp.lang.python!
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/
>




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Mar  1 20:14:11 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 19:14:11 -0600
Subject: hotmail
References: <d5534716.0203011007.4cfeb8b8@posting.google.com> <a5oko9$1s63$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <B25E4346CFE0FB2F.946974A74B129682.2686C54F2C28833E@lp.airnews.net>

In article <a5oko9$1s63$1 at norfair.nerim.net>,
Gillou <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote:
>If you got a pop3 access to your hotmail account, have a look at the
>"poplib" package. This is the easiest way.
>
>If you can only read your mail through Web pages, I think that "urllib"
>(performs HTTP GET/POST requests and retrieve Web pages) and "htmllib"
>(simple HTML parser) will help you for that job. But it's harder.
			.
			.
			.
POP3 is *much* easier, whenever practical.

As admirable as urllib and htmllib are, this sort of "Web
scraping" invariably turns out to be hard, hard work.  The
sites most in need of automatic processing are generally
barricaded behind cookies and other impedimenta that are a
poor fit for urllib--and it's best we not talk about the
parseability of their HTML!

Those who insist on scraping should read <URL: http://
www.unixreview.com/documents/s=1820/uni1011713175619/0201i.htm >
If you do so, you're only a couple of clicks more from 
locating <URL: http://www.hawkins.emu.id.au/gotmail/ >, "a
neat little utility to download mail from a HotMail account
..."
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From jason at jorendorff.com  Thu Mar 14 12:55:09 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:55:09 -0600
Subject: Telnet-like interface with authentication in server
In-Reply-To: <8zYj8.63$5Kn.179044352@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEHDDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Thomas Weholt wrote:
> Got a webserver based on BaseHTTPServer using threads and I want a simple
> text-based interface to, like telnet. Would it be possible to 
> have a normal
> telnet-client connect to my server somehow, get a prompt for username and
> password and be able to run simple commands and see some output ?
> 
> This would be very handy for debugging etc.

I think you'll find it easier to write a simple Python program and
use it as your client.

Telnet sends raw bytes back and forth; if you want e.g. the Backspace
key to work properly, then you have to implement it yourself *on the
server side*.  But if you write your own client, you can use
raw_input() and then just send a line at a time to the server.

More later.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From killspam at darwinwars.com  Wed Mar 27 07:22:06 2002
From: killspam at darwinwars.com (Andrew Brown)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:22:06 GMT
Subject: win32 problem interacting with word97
Message-ID: <Xns91DE7E01D2955andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.103>

I am trying to convert a couple of hundred MS word 97  files to html, and 
then reformat them into a template. 

Mostly, this works, but there are some which contain accented letters, 
and the Word html converter barfs on these in a peculiarly irritating 
way: it puts up a dialogue box with a message saying 

"This document contains characters that are not in the current language 
encoding. To preserve them, choose cancel and select the appropriate 
language encoding. For multilingual documents, use UTF-8."

It is possible to press "OK" or "cancel" or any damn thing if you can see 
the dialogue box; but my program can't see it, and goes on trying to get 
word to process the next file until, after about 30 seconds python 
crashes completely. Only then do I see the dialogue box which has caused 
the trouble. 

What I would like to be able to do is to get around this. Since it's not, 
so far as Word is concerned, an error, no exception appears. So I can't 
catch it that way. I don't know any way to detect that Word expects 
input. Is there one? 

The crudest thing that occurs to me is simply to send an "esc" character 
(to dismiss the dialogue box) after every file has been processed. But I 
don't know how to do that, even. 

Is there some kind of "sendkeys" method?

In case it's enlightening, here is the bit of code where everything goes 
wrong:

def visitfile(self,filepath):
    if string.find(filepath, 'doc')>1:
      htmfile=os.path.splitext(filepath)[0]+'.htm'
      print 'htmfile is %s' %htmfile
      try:
        self.o.Documents.Add(os.path.abspath(filepath))
        self.o.ActiveDocument.SaveAs(os.path.abspath(htmfile),17)
        self.o.ActiveDocument.Close()
      except:
        warning='MS word convert failed ' + str(sys.exc_type) + str\ 
(sys.exc_value)
        print 'filepath is %s' %filepath
        print warning
      # but there is no exception, so the dialogue box goes unnoticed
      .....




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 20:33:28 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:33:28 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net> <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com> <a6mncn$koc$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <a6ocaa$qpa$0@216.39.172.122> <a6ossg$hu7$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <gcvv8uo1ra2lv9a31mgdh8ngoeov4f87b3@4ax.com>

>in Python.  Best I think would be a standard module of data structures
>(priority queue, doubly-linked lists, stack, etc.)  But it hasn't bothered
>me enough to go ahead and do it.

I have implemented a deque (which safely supports insert on iteration
with multiple iterators using a fail-fast protocol), a priority queue
(which isn't entirely generalized, I believe it assumes an integer and
organizes top for lowest numbers), and a thing that I call a "double
vector" which, like vectors with preallocation strategies, supports both
preallocation of memory at the head _AND_ the tail, giving it deque-like
properties without the support for insert-on-iterate.

It's all been reasonably well-tested.

I'll gladly contribute all this to a larger collection library if someone
wants to organize it.

Downsides: the iterators are older and not related to Python's new
iterators. It doesn't really matter which container you use as far as
performance goes, for routinely-encountered values of N. That's why
Python doesn't have anything special like this built in already, actually.

C//



From kip_macy at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 01:53:46 2002
From: kip_macy at yahoo.com (Kip Macy)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 22:53:46 -0800
Subject: vfork hangs
Message-ID: <efee2c2a.0203062253.3cc01a7c@posting.google.com>

I'm having problems with my python application hanging in vfork with
the child never completing the exec. It is hard for me to track it
down just by putting a break on vfork because the code is
multi-threaded, several thousand lines long, and doesn't hit this
right away. I saw it suggested that system is not thread safe on
solaris (the platform I'm using). The other thing of note is that a
SIGCLD is always received promptly before the vfork hang.


From fgeiger at datec.at  Wed Mar  6 08:32:35 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:32:35 +0100
Subject: [OT] Want to recognize pictures using Python
Message-ID: <a655p5$82t$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

I plan to buy a USB camera (hope, they are not too expensive) to play a bit
with image analyzing. Nothing sophisticated, just color recognition: I'd
like to be able to tell whether the upper half of a picture has mostly the
color green or red or the lower left quarter of an image is mostly blue etc.

I'm completely new to this topic, but really would like to do this in
Python.

Does anyone know of a package capable of providing such services? As said
already, preferably for use in Python programs. PIL comes to my mind here.
Is PIL the right one to start with in this regard?


Thanks and best regards
Franz GEIGER






From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 10:54:47 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:54:47 +0000
Subject: dynamic loading of modules
References: <mailman.1015430710.7456.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a666rg$2km$2@peabody.colorado.edu>

Henry Baumgartl wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Having recently embarked on my journey into Python land, I would like to
> know if there is an elegant solution to the following problem:
> 
> I would like to be able to compound variables that will then form the name
> of the particular module to be loaded into the active script.

__import__

cheers,

f


From jcollins at boulder.net  Thu Mar 28 11:43:28 2002
From: jcollins at boulder.net (Jeffery D. Collins)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:28 -0700
Subject: Pippy
References: <20020328153333.69176.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA34830.4000106@boulder.net>

David Brady wrote:

> I've been fiddling with Pippy for the past few months,
> and I have to say I *LOVE* it.  For all its
> shortcomings, it's wonderful.
> 
> I notice Pippy has modules declared for palmapps,
> palmform, palmevents, etc... do these work?  Is there
> documentation for them anywhere?  I can't find
> anything on the endeavors website.


Some minimal documentation is embedded in the doc directory of the 
source distribution.  They are not fully developed and may be replaced 
with better alternatives.

I have recieved patches that I plan to integrate into Pippy, but wanted 
to wait until my sourceforge project was up and running.  However, it's 
been approximately a month since I submitted the application and still 
haven't heard a word, even after inquiring a week ago (or so).  Perhaps 
I should look to host the project elsewhere.  Can anyone suggest an 
alternative with similar capabilities?

Thanks!



-- 
Jeffery Collins (http://www.boulder.net/~jcollins)




From joonas at olen.to  Sun Mar 10 17:21:13 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:21:13 +0200
Subject: Syntax to catch specific exceptions ?
References: <3C8BD227.7D1D5539@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <3C8BDC59.AFAA83B7@olen.to>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:
> 
> I am trying to find correct python syntax and structure for the
> following exceptions
> ------------------------
> mypath = os.path.join(os.getcwd(), 'mydirectory', 'mysettings.pxp')
> try:
>         f = open(mypath, "r")
> 
> except "mydirectory does not exists":
>         try:
>                 create_mydirectory_for_the_next_read()
>                 save_default_values(mypath)
>         except "no permission to create mydirectory":
>                 do_whatever()
> 
> except "no permission to enter mydirectory":
>         print "whatever1"
>         use_defaults()
> 
> except "file mysettings.pxp does not exist":
>         print "whatever2"
>         use_defaults()
> 
> except "no permission to open mysettings.pxp":
>         print "whatever3"
>         use_defaults()
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> I can get the error text and number as follows, but how to catch only
> "File exists" OSError ?
> 
> try:
> ...  os.mkdir('e:\\tmp')
> except OSError, (errno, strerror):
> ...  print strerror
> ...
> File exists

How about catching all exceptions and then examining the traceback?

- Joonas


From peter at norvig.com  Sat Mar 23 01:41:15 2002
From: peter at norvig.com (Peter Norvig)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 22:41:15 -0800
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr> <59667b81.0203221433.261c8210@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <da69ff6a.0203222241.405fd8a0@posting.google.com>

I have some simple, inefficient CSP code in Python at
http://www.norvig.com/python/csp.html

Includes fintie domain backtracking search (with optional forward
checking, domain ordering, and variable ordering); hill-climbing
min-conflicts search; examples from map coloring, n-queens, and the
zebra puzzle.

-Peter


benji_york at cal-na.com (Benji York) wrote in message news:<59667b81.0203221433.261c8210 at posting.google.com>...
> nico at aries.logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) wrote in message news:<slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico at aries.logilab.fr>...
> > I'd like to entertain you with a new subject: logic programming and
> > constraint-propagation features in Python.
> 
> I would be very interested in a finite domain constraint slover
> in/connected-to Python.
> 
> though-not-volunteering-to-implement-it-<wink>-ly y'rs
> 
> Benji York


From marduk at python.net  Mon Mar 18 11:04:38 2002
From: marduk at python.net (marduk)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 10:04:38 -0600
Subject: Relieved but disappointed: The Pariah thread
In-Reply-To: <5l2c9usr5q536u9ki0vc38jlu6oud859sj@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1016355447.13525.python-list@python.org> 
	<5l2c9usr5q536u9ki0vc38jlu6oud859sj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1016467478.18470.38.camel@ahopkins>

LOL

On Mon, 2002-03-18 at 09:48, Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
[...]
> This easily the most humourless, anal-retentive group I read. 
> 
> The most daring humour you are likely to get away with is a bit of
> clearly labelled sarcasm. 
> 
> Or, for a real belly laugh, string a bunch of words together with
> hyphens and add '-ly yours' on the end.
> 
> I gave up ages ago.
> --
> Dale Strickland-Clark
> Riverhall Systems Ltd



 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
    ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------        
                http://www.usenet.com


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 06:54:59 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:54:59 +0000
Subject: The IDE is important too [was Develop-test-debug cycle]
References: <crnn9u4gf5ferfvhrp4o5ddjcob2ila7s6@4ax.com> <pan.2002.03.22.21.15.28.962107.56216@snet.net>
Message-ID: <uuqo9us079r79d5mpnm407i0vmvbf2ebbn@4ax.com>

Paul Magwene <p.magwene at snet.net> wrote:

>i.e. What can YOU do for ME today?!  Sure, there's lots of gee-whizness
>we'd all love to see in Python IDEs, but since I ain't payin' for it I try
>not to moan too much about it.

Thats a daft response and barely worth the time to reply but as it's a
Saturday and I'm feeling chilled out I'll spell it out to you...

I'm sure most PEPs originate from users asking for new features. The
language is unlikely to evolve without suggestions such as these.

I know that my experiences are not unique. I'm not suggesting anything
that wouldn't benefit the language in general.

>Since it's open source why don't YOU implement the cool ideas you've
>suggested, submit 'em back to the community, and WE can all be four times
>more productive?

I'd love to have the time but I'm spending it all in the
develop-test-debug cycle at the moment.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From lbut at stny.rr.com  Sun Mar 17 10:21:19 2002
From: lbut at stny.rr.com (Les Button)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:21:19 GMT
Subject: Problem using pexports & Cygwin to build Python 2.2 extension modules
Message-ID: <Pv2l8.131777$V15.22100907@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Hello,

I have been trying unsuccessfully to use Cygwin/gcc to build Python
extensions for native Windows Python 2.2 on Windows XP.  I followed
the general outline at
http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/inst/non-ms-compilers.html

Summary of problem (whether I use distutils, or just try to "do it
by hand"): I get a linker failure, from undefined references
to "libpython22_a_iname" and "_nm___Py_NoneStruct".

Has anyone else had success building an extension module with Windows
Python 2.2 and Cygwin/gcc?

Thanks,
--Les Button
lbut at stny.rr.com

P.S. I also had a problem with "Python.h" needing to have definitions of
SIZEOF_INT
and SIZEOF_LONG;  these apparently didn't get defined properly (for
Cygwin/gcc)
in "pyconfig.h"??  I fixed for now by providing #define's for these two,
before the
#include "Python.h" -- I don't see why this should be related to the linker
failure.

pexports version 0.43
dlltool version 2.11.92 20011001
gcc version 2.95.3-5
Windows Python 2.2
Windows XP (home edition)

******** Attempted build: *********
$ ./pexports python22.dll > python22.def
$ dlltool --dllname python22.dll --def
python22.def --output-lib=libpython22.a
$ cp libpython22.a  /cygdrive/c/Python22/libs
$ python setup.py build --compiler=cygwin
running build
running build_ext
building 'pr_int' extension
creating build
creating build\temp.win32-2.2
creating build\temp.win32-2.2\Release
C:\cygwin\bin\gcc.exe -mcygwin -mdll -O -Wall -Ic:\Python22\include -c
pr_int.c
-o build\temp.win32-2.2\Release\pr_int.o
writing build\temp.win32-2.2\Release\pr_int.def
creating build\lib.win32-2.2
C:\cygwin\bin\gcc.exe -mcygwin -mdll -static -s
build\temp.win32-2.2\Release\pr_
int.o
build\temp.win32-2.2\Release\pr_int.def -Lc:\Python22\libs -lpython22 -o b
uild\lib.win32-2.2\pr_int.pyd
Warning: resolving __Py_NoneStruct by linking to __imp___Py_NoneStruct
(auto-imp
ort)
fu000001.o(.idata$3+0xc): undefined reference to `libpython22_a_iname'
fu000002.o(.idata$3+0xc): undefined reference to `libpython22_a_iname'
nmth000000.o(.idata$4+0x0): undefined reference to `_nm___Py_NoneStruct'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

******** setup.py: *********
import sys

from distutils.core import setup
from distutils.extension import Extension

setup (
    name = "pr_int",

    ext_modules = [Extension(
        name="pr_int",
        sources = [ "pr_int.c" ]
        )],
)




From krissepu at vip.fi  Mon Mar 11 02:55:17 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (pekka niiranen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:55:17 GMT
Subject: Syntax to catch specific exceptions ?
References: <3C8BD227.7D1D5539@vip.fi> <6vQi8.24234$n4.4716288@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3C8C6315.9020805@vip.fi>

Thanks Fredrik,

So I will end up writing function with a huge "if-else"-structure under 
except -clause
that catches all cases I want react to? Sounds like C. Perkele ;)

By the way, have you had time to consider re.findallX -function that
does not return empty matches ?
   
-pekka-

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>Pekka Niiranen wrote:
>
>>I can get the error text and number as follows, but how to catch only
>>"File exists" OSError ?
>>
>>try:
>>...  os.mkdir('e:\\tmp')
>>except OSError, (errno, strerror):
>>...  print strerror
>>...
>>File exists
>>
>
>catch it, check the errno attribute, and raise it again
>if it's not the right error:
>
>import os, errno
>
>try:
>    os.mkdir(somedir)
>except OSError, v:
>    if v.errno != errno.EEXIST:
>        raise
>    # directory exists
>
>alternatively, you can use os.path.isdir to check if the
>directory exists before you call mkdir.
>
></F>
>
><!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
>http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
>-->
>
>

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From concordeking at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  5 16:30:39 2002
From: concordeking at yahoo.com (concordeking at yahoo.com)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 21:30:39 -0000
Subject: Hello Entrepreneur
Message-ID: <20020305213039.498.qmail@idhost>

Entrepreneur, you submitted your details on the internet as someone interested in starting a business from home.

Well, this is what I have to offer:

Everybody who enters into the program works in a team-building relationship, so we're all helping to make each other successful.  That's how I've been able to make money so quickly.....MY TEAM did it.  This is incredible! 

Go look at our team's website.  It explains everything:   
http://www.concordegroup.net/  (ID# 154257) 
If you decide to join us, our team will be working for you, too.  It's a no-brainer.   

Yours sincerely
Christo

















































---
To remove yourself from further mailings, visit this webpage:
http://GetResponse.com/r.cgi?a=christo&e=python-list_Xycwi.nl&i=0



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Mar 21 19:17:38 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 18:17:38 -0600
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <20020321235029.B66B438F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
References: <20020321235029.B66B438F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <1016756258.554.46.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2002-03-21 at 17:50, Andrew McNamara wrote:
> 
> > > Albatross encourages (but doesn't enforce) the separation of presentation
> > > and logic. You might do something like this in Albatross:
> > >
> > >     <ul>
> > >     <al-for iter="reptile" expr='["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]'>
> > >       <li><al-value expr="reptile.value()" whitespace></li>
> > >     </al-for>
> > >     </ul>
> >
> > Why, oh why, does it use HTML-like syntax?  People keep implementing
> > templating languages that do this over and over, and it's a bad, bad
> > idea.  Any moderately complex example of templating will violate the
> > rules of HTML/SGML, with things like <img src="<al-value
> > expr="something">">, which is horrible to read, will anger WYSIWYG
> > editors to no end, and isn't at all necessary.
> 
> The intention is that Albatross templates be valid XML - while Albatross
> will do the expected thing in the example you give above, it generally
> provides a "better" way, such as:
> 
>         <al-img expr="something">

Do you mean that you have a template tag for every kind of tag for which
you would want to modify an attribute?  That's every single HTML tag --
IMG is hardly the only one.  A dynamic CSS class attribute, for
instance, or events (onMouseOver, etc), id tags, background colors...
there's a million possibilities.

Plus you've got the same problems ZPT has, where it's not really proper
-- or perhaps even possible -- to dynamically generate CSS or Javascript
with your language, since they are generally guarded by comments and are
thus opaque to XML.

XML just seems so darn *hard*.

  Ian





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 16:01:56 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:01:56 -0600
Subject: The Python Way
In-Reply-To: <jjb5-B81262.13422827032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net>
        <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com>
        <a7qqhr$m5$1@panix1.panix.com>
        <jjb5-B81262.13422827032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <15522.13124.505385.871392@beluga.mojam.com>

    Joel> In C++ it's common to have a wrapper class that acquires the lock
    Joel> in the ctor and releases it in the dtor, then allocating an object
    Joel> of that class on the stack local to the function.  Is there a
    Joel> Pythonesque version of the same design pattern?  

Yeah, it's pretty easily doable, but it assumes the granularity of the lock
is appropriately a whole function, or that only a single lock needs
acquiring, or that you don't need to release and reacquire the lock sometime
in the middle, or that you are willing to artificially break up a function
that needs to use the lock into pieces that can acquire the lock upon entry
and release it upon exit ...

    Joel>     class A:
    Joel>         def fn(self,x):
    Joel>             pass

    Joel>     class B(A):
    Joel>         def fn(self,x):
    Joel>             lock.acquire()
    Joel>             try:
    Joel>                 A.fn(self,x)
    Joel>             finally:
    Joel>                 lock.release()

    Joel> Or is this considered poor form?

That's fine form, subject to the considerations I mentioned above.

I have a decent-sized XML-RPC server (about 4000 lines) that was
single-threaded until about a year ago.  Most of the effort necessary to
make it multi-threaded was to lock various data structures.  I settled on
four threading.RLock objects and two Queue.Queue objects.  Amazingly enough,
I don't recall having any deadlocks or corrupt data.  (Using Queue.Queue in
the right places probably helped there.)

Looking back at the code now, most of the lock acquisition occurs for a
single lock which is protecting 12 separate small caches.  My code that
looks like

    self.cache_lock.acquire()
    try:
        fiddle_some_cache...
    finally:
        self.cache_lock.release()

would look a lot cleaner if I simply dumped the threading.RLock objects
altogether and used Queue.Queue objects holding the cache:

    some_cache = self.some_cache_queue.get()
    fiddle_some_cache...
    self.some_cache_queue.put(some_cache)

Aahz is always admonishing us to just use Queue.Queue.  Maybe it's time
I paid a bit closer attention to what he's been saying...

someday-i'll-learn-ly, y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Mar  7 21:35:39 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 11:35:39 +0900
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net> <20020307035851.GA23955@isis.gerrietts.net> <mailman.1015474452.29610.python-list@python.org> <3C87C057.4040902@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <873czbokg4.fsf@xemacs.org>

>>>>> "Ramkumar" == Ramkumar Kashyap <rkashyap at sympatico.ca> writes:

    Ramkumar> My original intent for starting the thread was because I
    Ramkumar> truly believe in CP4E.

I used to.  Then I started doing I18N.  Then I didn't.  Computers and
humans communicate with other entities in very different ways.

CUse4E is a different matter.  You _can_ program computers to do a
damn good job of translating a human's idea of "precise description"
into something that can be used to efficiently query a database.

But at that point the human is no longer engaged in programming.  A
human dependent on that level of cooperation is not capable of fixing
what's broke.  My 2-1/2 year old daughter was quite capable of drawing
on the screen with the mouse, and was good enough to learn to click
the "close" button once she figured out that made Daddy really proud.
(Now that she's 4-1/2 she's into Lego and makeup.  Go figure....  But
she still turns off the TV when she leaves the room.)

Programmer?  Uh-uh.  Not even Grandma will claim that.

    Ramkumar> The point I want to make is that there are programs like
    Ramkumar> Hooked-on-Phonics, and other remedial language programs
    Ramkumar> that are quite effective in raising the literacy levels
    Ramkumar> among adults.

Which do this precisely by taking all the rigor out, and depending on
intuition and subconscious processes.  "You know it when you see
it"---but you don't know _why_.  Problem is, there is no way to
guarantee that a trained neural network will be a generalization of
the data it was trained on.

Japanese education is heavily oriented to imitate-the-teacher
learning-by-doing.  It shows in their programs (my sample is of course
published free software programs and patches to other free software
programs; I don't know what the professionals are doing---I do know
that it's one field where foreigners are often preferred to natives),
and the way they apparently _can_ not convert their patches to forms
that would be acceptable in an internationalized application.

I don't think this is a biological thing the way the male/female
difference seems to be, and probably not even terribly deeply embedded
in culture.  I don't think it would take much to teach programming to
Japanese high school students.  But I think that it is evidence that
Hooked-on-Python is not going to be a path to CP4E.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar 20 11:24:35 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 16:24:35 GMT
Subject: Message bug?
References: <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9hdu2.ec3.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj at 4ax.com>, Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'work'
> 
> I have no module called 'module'. 

It's printing the type of the offending object:

>>> a.foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'foo'
>>>

I suppose the single quotes are a bit confusing; maybe they should
just be removed.  Classes do better:

>>> class C: pass
...
>>> c=C()
>>> c.foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: C instance has no attribute 'foo'

Reasonable.  But new-style classes bring the single quotes back:

>>> class D(object): pass
...
>>> d=D()
>>> d.foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'D' object has no attribute 'foo'
>>>

--amk


From akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org  Tue Mar 26 10:03:27 2002
From: akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 15:03:27 GMT
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <eujv9uonmvb9091u87it6438oqoev3cdqh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa13du.cmq.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org>

In article <eujv9uonmvb9091u87it6438oqoev3cdqh at 4ax.com>, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> ownerdescriptor=GetFileSecurity(filename,OWNER_SECURITY_INFORMATION)
> ...     owner=ownerdescriptor.GetSecurityDescriptorOwner()
> ...     ownername=LookupAccountSid(None,owner)
> ...     return ownername[0]

That wouldn't be hard to support on Windows.  The question for Windows
developers is simply: is it useful to support this?  I'll defer to
Thomas or Tim on that point.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
  "Ace, have you no sense of occasion?"
  "No."
    -- The Doctor and Ace, in "Battlefield"


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 12 05:52:50 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:52:50 GMT
Subject: PEP 285 bool types
References: <K4UjZVApfcj8EwyK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <uzo1err54.fsf@python.net>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> Any one know what the effects of introducing the proposed bool type will
> be? 
> 
> I see it generating large traffic on the dev list, but what will it
> really mean and will there be yet another great divide in python
> versions?

Well, you can bet that the people best qualified to answer that
question are currently shouting about it in python-dev.

I don't know, I haven't read the thread...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
48. The best book on programming for the layman is "Alice in
    Wonderland"; but that's because it's the best book on
    anything for the layman.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From matkin at iar.se  Thu Mar 14 06:16:36 2002
From: matkin at iar.se (Mats Kindahl)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 12:16:36 +0100
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
References: <mailman.1016065525.9745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <umbsdr8kmj.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Michael George Lerner]
> > I have a regular expression that looks vaguely like this:
> >
> > r = re.compile(r'''(?P<start>start)(?P<foo>   foo)(?P<end>end)''')
> >
> > but the middle pattern isn't quite what I want.  I know that foo
> > will be a string that is seven characters long and contains 'foo'
> > surrounded by spaces.  That is, it could be any of these:
> >
> > 'foo    '
> > ' foo   '
> > '  foo  '
> > '   foo '
> > '    foo'
> >
> > I'd like to rewrite my regular expression to match any of these,
> > and I'd really rather not write it all out like this:
> >
> > (?P<foo>(foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo|)
> 
> That will also match an empty string (remove the last vertical bar; ditto
> the 2nd left paren).
> 
> > Is there some easy way to do this that I've overlooked?
> 
> You already found an easy way <wink>.  If you ask whether there's an easier
> way, the answer is no.

Depending on the definition of easy, this is the alternative I would
use. 

	r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
	
Of course, your milage may wary.

-- 
Mats Kindahl, IAR Systems, Sweden

Any opinions expressed are my own, not my company's.


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 22:20:36 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:20:36 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8df64.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <3C86D7CA.F53189AE@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <eppstein-51DA81.19203606032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C86D7CA.F53189AE at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>,
 Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> > In your notation how would you do the following?
> > 
> > for x in range(n-1,-1,-2):
> 
> for 0 <= i < n/2:
>   x = 2*i + 1
>   ...

Not quite the same, if n is odd.


From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 13:24:17 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (Richard Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:24:17 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
In-Reply-To: <3C92294C.19BCF936@acm.org>
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>	
 <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
 <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]> <3C92294C.19BCF936@acm.org>
Message-ID: <p0510143db8b7ecb89827@[134.9.17.165]>

Thanks, good point.  the actual problem was I was reversing the first 
two args to select.select().  D'oh!

At 6:03 PM +0100 3/15/02, Sjoerd Mullender wrote:
>When select tells you there is something available to read, it doesn't mean
>there is a whole line available to read!  It is very well possible that there
>is only one character available, but readline may want to read (a lot) more
>than that.
>
>Rich Cook wrote:
>>
>>  At 11:09 PM -0600 3/14/02, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>>  >     >>    selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
>>  >     >>    (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, 
>>selectables)
>>  >     ...
>>  >
>>  >     >> It blocks forever waiting for theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
>>  >     >> to return.  I expect it to block waiting for select.select(); that
>>  >     >> would not be a problem.  The problem is that select is claiming
>>  >     >> there's stuff to be read, then when I try to read it, 
>>it's not there!
>>  >     >> How can that be?
>>  >
>>  >Based upon the attribute names you are using, I suspect you instantiated
>>  >os.Popen3 to create theProcess.  These are file objects, not sockets.  I
>>  >believe select only blocks on sockets.  See the comments about asynchronous
>>  >file i/o near the bottom of asyncore.py.
>>
>>  I don't really need select to block.  I just want it to be accurate.
>>  If it returns a file object in the list of things which are
>>  available, why should then readline() block on it?
>>  --
>>
>>  -Sincerely, Rich Cook 925-784-3077
>>  *******************************************************************
>>  Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government
>>  of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
>>           Thomas Jefferson
>>  *******************************************************************
>  >
>  > --
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


-- 



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 18:33:08 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:33:08 -0600
Subject: Problem with cgitb
In-Reply-To: <1015541499.1203.12.camel@temp>
References: <1015532454.1203.4.camel@temp>
        <15495.58404.946778.996505@beluga.mojam.com>
        <1015541499.1203.12.camel@temp>
Message-ID: <15495.63668.397647.596660@beluga.mojam.com>

    Ken> Unfortunately cgitb has a problem when some of the data it outputs
    Ken> includes HTML, since it does not escape the appropriate bits and so
    Ken> the browser gets very upset.

    >> Can you post a bit of the fractured HTML it generates?  

    Ken> I'm reluctant to send attachments to the list, and I'm not sure the
    Ken> problem is clear unless you see a complete example.  If anyone
    Ken> would like to see an example I will happily email you a 5K tarball
    Ken> with an example, just send me some email.

Ken sent me an example.  I tracked the problem down to a version-related bug
in pydoc.py.  If anyone needs the fix either browse v. 1.58 of pydoc on the
CVS repository or send me a note.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar  4 15:41:50 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 12:41:50 -0800
Subject: Can Python do this?
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <7xvgccm5f5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> writes:
> Hello, Python newbie here.
> 
> Let's say I'd like to build a method name into a string variable (e.g.
> "FuncCall" + "1" to attempt to call "FuncCall1").  Can I then call that
> method by somehow having the interpreter evaluate the string variable into a
> call to the desired method? (I know this is usually done in a language like
> Prolog or Lisp but I'm hoping Python can do it too.)
> 
> If so, can you point me to a good article or example of such that would show
> me the relevant Python syntax.

    x = my_class()                   # x is an instance of some class
    method_name = "FuncCall" + "1"   # gives "FuncCall1"
    method = getattr(x, method_name) # find the method
    method (args)                    # call the method

is preferable to using eval, if method_name is actually defined for
my_class.  However, if method_name is only defined for some class that
my_class inherits from, and not from my_class itself, then this won't
work.

Anyone know a way to find a method taking inheritance into account?


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 13 11:48:12 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:48:12 -0500
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u8v0dg4lej417@news.supernews.com>

"Gon?alo Rodrigues" <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message
news:ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c at 4ax.com...
> Some tens (or hundreds - I lost count already) of posts ago, someone
> asked what was the wartiness of the range (and by extension, of
xrange)
> builtin. The question sunked in my brain, and last night it resurfaced
> back with an accompanying answer. Actually, the title is just a bait:
it
> should be named, Why I think the use I make of range is a wart.
>
> For starters, range (and xrange) is a perfectly sensible, reasonable
and
> useful buit-in. But the biggest use I make of it is in iterating
through
> a list, e.g. as in
>
> for index in range(len(mylist)):
>     <whatever>
>
> and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
> sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
> myself doing this quite often.

It happens to me too, mostly when I'm using a sliding window
type algorithm, that is, I need to look at two adjacent members
of the list. You can't do this easily by iterating through the list;
unrolling the first entry and the last entry are a pain.

Is there a way of handling this nicely? Somehow I doubt it.

John Roth

> Gon?alo Rodrigues
>
> P.S: PEP 279 proposes adding indexed to generators which would "clean"
> the above wart.
>




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 17 04:00:33 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 10:00:33 +0100
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <1016327182.366474@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <m3n0x7po0e.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:

> In either case, though, "make test" fails at test_threads with:
> 
>     test_thread
>     *** Termination signal 14
> 
> That was where I got stuck, and I'm *still* stuck.

Does the test also fail if run on its own? I.e. what happens if you do

./python Lib/test/regrtest.py test_thread

Also, since you said that threads work fine in 1.5.2 for you, what
happens if you run this test in Python 1.5.2?

Regards,
Martin



From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Mar 30 04:39:52 2002
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett Cannon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:39:52 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0203300124360.5833-100000@death.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Guido van Rossum wrote:

[snip]
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.
>

Personally, I feel no great need for booleans, but it wouldn't hurt to
have them either.  We all do the usual return 1 if true else return 0
standard on boolean-like methods, so it isn't like they would go unused.

But we do have that basic standard going and it is not that much more code
to handle.  Python has always gone for verbose over shortcuts, and I can
easily view booleans as just a shortcut to appease people from other
languages.

Personally, I would give a +0 vote just because this is a common enough
case that a shortcut would be nice.


>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)
>

Return "True".  I agree on the strange looking part.  Plus we can only
bend over backwards so much for compability.  I doubt the amount of code
that would be broken justifies the strangeness of returning "1".


>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).
>

If this is done, make it Pythonic.  If we cared about being like other
langauges we wouldn't use Python because of that "funky whitespace
mattters stuff" issue.  Go with 'True' and 'False'.


>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>        me.

I agree with this.  Thanks to the standard way of representing false as 0
and true as everything else (but almost always as 1), I see no reason to
not treat it as such behind the scenes in terms of operations.  Allows all
of us warped by C to continue to fool ourselves into treating boolean
values as ints.


>
>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.
>

I say return boolean.  This goes back to my view of not worrying about
backwards compatibility as much as general correctness and being more
Pythonic.

This whole thing is in a way saying that we should have had booleans a
while back.  So why not just do a complete cleanup of the situation and do
it right.


>     Many programmers apparently feel the need for a Boolean type; most
>     Python documentation contains a bit of an apology for the absence
>     of a Boolean type.  I've seen lots of modules that defined
>     constants "False=0" and "True=1" (or similar) at the top and used
>     those.  The problem with this is that everybody does it
>     differently.  For example, should you use "FALSE", "false",
>     "False", "F" or even "f"?  And should false be the value zero or
>     None, or perhaps a truth value of a different type that will print
>     as "true" or "false"?  Adding a standard bool type to the language
>     resolves those issues.
>

Consistency is obviously the big draw for this.  Since truth can be viewed
as anything not 0 or None, it is rather open and not standardized
officially.  But we all treat 1 as true and 0 or None as false already.
Plus if someone feels the need to have the syntactic sugar for True and
False, they can do it themselves as mentioned above.

But the frequency of this in code, IMO, is frequent enough to warrant at
least considering the sugar.  Everyone uses booleans in there code in some
form.  And if having a standardized way of representing them makes
maintaining code that much easier, so be it.

-Brett C.



From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 26 14:19:40 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:19:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c2
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203261910570.30840-100000@starship.python.net>

We've released a second release candidate for the next bugfix release
of Python, 2.2.1.

There haven't been many changes since 2.2.1c1, just a few fixes.

Note for AIX users: there are still problems with AIX in this release,
and there has not been time to repair them without fear of breaking
platforms that currently work.  Hopefully by the time of the release
of 2.2.1 final we will be able to provide a recipe that allows AIX
users to build and run Python.

Get the scoop (and the files) here:

    http://www.python.org/2.2.1/

In order to make 2.2.1 a solid release, please help by

+ Building the release, and running the test suite on your platform.
+ Running *your* extension modules' and applications' test suites
  against this release.
+ Reporting any problems to the bug tracker at sf:

    http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

This being a bugfix release, there are no exciting new features -- we just
fixed a lot of bugs.  For a moderately complete list, please see:

    http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=81373

Feel free to email me the output of "make test", but please check that
you are not duplicating effort by reading this page first:

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/221c2-reports.txt

2.2.1 final will follow "soon".

Cheers,
The Python development team.




From rjk at grauel.com  Wed Mar 20 20:52:39 2002
From: rjk at grauel.com (Richard J Kuhns)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 01:52:39 GMT
Subject: A question about generators
References: <mailman.1016494109.20996.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-A2A8BF.16340018032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <x77ko61ycf.fsf@moran.grauel.com>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> writes:

> In article <mailman.1016494109.20996.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> 
> > > I have an application where I think either an iterator or a 
> > > generator would
> > > be ideal, but I have to be able to reset whichever I use.  The paper
> > > "What's New in Python 2.2" says that there's no way to reset 
> > > an iterator,
> > > so that's out.  Is there a straight-forward way to reset a generator,
> > > though?
> > 
> > That's not actually correct. There is no general way to reset and iterator
> > or generator, but you can make a custom iterator or generator that can be
> > reset.
> 
> You could create the generator inside some larger scope, and communicate 
> with it by changing variables in that scope.  Ok, actually it's not 
> possible to change a variable from outside that variable's scope (why??) 
> but it is possible to have a list or dictionary within a scope and 
> change one of its cells.
> 

That's pretty much what I ended up doing -- I put a "while 1:" loop around
the rest of the code in the generator, and I test a "reset generator"
variable after each yield.  If it's set, "continue" the while loop. It's
kind of nasty-looking, but it seems to work.  It's one of those things that
won't be used very often, but when I need it I REALLY need it.

Thanks for the comments.
-- 
Richard Kuhns			rjk at grauel.com
PO Box 6249			Tel: (765)477-6000 \
100 Sawmill Road				    x319
Lafayette, IN  47903		     (800)489-4891 /

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From pete at dexterslab.de  Thu Mar 28 19:14:17 2002
From: pete at dexterslab.de (Henning Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:14:17 +0100
Subject: chat server
Message-ID: <B8C97068.C30E%pete@dexterslab.de>

hi pythonists,

i am planning to write a small chat server that uses select() in python.
multiple clients should be able to connect and chat wih each other - like on
a normal chatserver, just asynchronous...

my current problem is, that i have no clue how to implement the
communication between the sockets (a chat message should be directed to all
other connected clients).

is this possible to implement with select() or should it be better to use
the good old fork() each time, a client connects and implement interprocess
communication via pipelines or shared memory?!

btw: does anybody knows a good documentation about select() and related
themes - i've already read http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/programming.html.

bye,
henning peters



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Mar 14 03:08:35 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:08:35 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> # if whatever contains only refs to mylist [index]
> for element in mylist:
>     <whatever>
>
> # if you really need the index
> def listIndices (list):
>     return range (len (list))
>
> for index in listIndices (mylist):
>     <whatever>

note that

    index = 0
    for item in mylist:
        <whatever>
        index += 1

is faster than

    for index in range(len(mylist)):
        item = mylist[index]
        <whatever>

> # my favourite
> for index, element in IndexAndElement (mylist):
>     <whatever>

you might prefer that one, but it's perfectly possible that your
users might be a bit happier if you used the += variant...

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 23:29:18 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:29:18 -0500
Subject: execfile() - change python version?
References: <VK9p8.1492$hi7.2657@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3CA53165.E3A765A4@engcorp.com> <vwap8.1551$hi7.3425@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3CA53F1E.C1DA8B56@engcorp.com>

Trung Hoang wrote:
> 
> running the following set of commands in a script:
>     import xml.dom.minidom
>     dom = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(somexmlstr)
> 
> using the above in python2.1 from my account: WORKS
> using the above in python2.1 from the web: WORKS
> using the above in python2.2 from my account : WORKS
> using the above in python2.2 from the web : FAILS!
> 
> so im forced to used 2.1 because of xml libraries
> #!/local/usr/bin/python
> as aposed to
> #!/local/usr/bin/python2.2
> 
> it probably does not work because of some environmental
> variable not being set, which when run from the web
> fails to find the SAX parser..

So run Python 2.2 from your account, import xml, 
find out where the file is coming from (xml.__file__), 
and in the script add in something like:

import sys
sys.path.append(the-path-to-where-the-xml-module-is)

-Peter


From jason at jorendorff.com  Sun Mar 10 21:27:09 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:27:09 -0600
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
In-Reply-To: <3c8bf3ef@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEIEDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Hi, given the fact that excpetion handling can be very
> expensive in languages like C++ - is python similar in
> this aspect?

Hi.  You already got one good answer on this, but another
tack is:  *Everything* in Python is *much* slower than
the corresponding thing in C++, except

  * hashtables
  * strings
  * programming  ;)

...so why worry?  What's "very expensive" in C++ is not
something you'd worry about in Python.


Yet another tack is this:  If you look closely at Python's
implementation, you'll notice that you're actually paying
the cost of exception handling *even when no exception is
thrown*.  So you might as well use the exception-handling
features of the language whenever it seems natural to do so.

To understand this, consider that Python is written in C,
which doesn't have exceptions.  How do you handle errors in
C?  You check the return value of every function call.  This
is what Python does, and it's how Python implements
exceptions, too.  This is the major cost of exception-handling
in Python:  checking every return value.  (Good C++ compilers
cleverly avoid this cost; Python doesn't, alas.)  Obviously
this must be done whether an exception was thrown or not;
that's the whole point.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 24 17:19:25 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 23:19:25 +0100
Subject: The OOM-Killer vs. Python
References: <3c9e2b5f.9993062@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <m3zo0xip76.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) writes:

> Anyway, even though I believe that this is more of a fault of the
> Linux Kernel VM quality than the script (the system has been running
> fine for months and now two kills in one week - that smells fishy to
> me) - how CAN I controll the memory usage for pythons GC? Is there a
> way to easily find out in python which memory is allocated at runtime,
> and by which objects?

If you suspect that you have cyclic garbage, turn on gc.DEBUG_SAVEALL,
and inspect gc.garbage. Before doing so, you should inspect gc.garbage
alone - it ought to be empty in a long-running program under all
cicrcumstances.

If you find objects on gc.garbage, you may try to break cycles
explicitly when you know you don't need the objects anymore - people
take pride in having their long-running scripts work even without gc.

If you don't create any cyclic garbage, you can find all container
objects with gc.get_objects.

If you find that gc.get_objects does not grow longer over time, but
your process still consumes more memory, one of your C extensions has
a refcounting bug.

HTH,
Martin



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 19:37:26 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:37:26 +0000
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
References: <u7ko62kn6.fsf@python.net>
 <mailman.1016754857.17727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rzKb7iAGznm8Ewux@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1016754857.17727.python-list at python.org>, Ken Seehof
<kseehof at neuralintegrator.com> writes
>> Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>> 
>> > Is there an obvious reason why modules imported from the current
>> > directory don't have an absolute pathname for __file__?
....
>I keep bumping into that one too.  I can't think of any advantage
>for the current semantics, so I am submitting a PEP.  I didn't see
>a bug in sf or an existing PEP, but I might have missed something
>so please let me know.  Seems like a PEP is more appropriate than
>a bug report though.
>
>I can't think of any reason for it to be difficult to implement.
>Seems like the code that assigns to __file__ in the first place
>could simply call abspath(), which should give correct results at
>load time.  Seems like this PEP would probably only require one
>line of code.
>
>- Ken Seehof <kseehof at neuralintegrator.com>
>
good thinking :)

I suppose if Bill Goats gets his way then current directory will cease
to have a meaning and we'll all be whining about database rows etc
mumble whine :(
-- 
Robin Becker


From s1500 at nospam.sihope.com  Thu Mar 14 11:06:57 2002
From: s1500 at nospam.sihope.com (Spitfire 1500)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:57 -0600
Subject: (XML) A list of class instances - how do I get them to reference each other?
Message-ID: <FU3k8.24$jt4.69424@news.uswest.net>

I'm currently trying to bring XML data into a format that Python can
maniupulate.

For the XML document,  I want to have it eventually(thru minidom or the
like) parsed over into a list of class instances. Each tag would get its
class instance, which could be a specific class for its tag.

I was sucessful making a list of class instances, but I want to add
attributes to each class such as "parentof" "Nextsibling",
"previoussibling', "childof" and so forth. basically, attributes that
reference different class instances to represent XML in a linked list. The
"root" ement(in this case, it would be <svg>), would be the first item in
the list.

The question is, how would I go about with the method of referencing each of
those class instances in relation to each other? Would I just use the list
index # in relation to each other, or is ther something better to represent
a unique class instance in the list?

Take note, on what I have so far, it's not hooked up to an XML parser yet.
I'm just trying to get the stucture down first.

Thanks...




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar 28 18:32:02 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:32:02 -0500
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2> <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net> <a807qp$ojhct$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <iKNo8.6385$Ou.2407@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:a807qp$ojhct$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> "Charl P. Botha" <cpbotha at i_triple_e.org> wrote in message
> news:slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha at crabtree.cpbotha.net...
> > In article <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list at python.org>,
> > David Ascher wrote:
> > > Thanks for all the interest in ActivePython.  We hope to not have
> these
> > > kinds of delays in the future.
> >
> > Just remember not to split your infinitives in the future. ;)
> >
>
> There is no longer consensus that splitting infinitives is wrong due to
> the awkward constructs avoiding it often gives rise to.
>
Emile's reply reminds me that, when told one should not end a sentence with
a preposition, Winston Churchill replied "This is something up with which I
will not put".

regards
 Steve






From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar 13 16:24:04 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:24:04 -0800
Subject: Newbie Import two coloums of floating point data into python HOWTO
References: <7eb201fc.0203110422.1e9c7dec@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015851319.9157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FC373.B8023B63@ccvcorp.com>

Andy Gimblett's code should work, but I'd do a few things a bit
differently...

Andy Gimblett wrote:

>     lines = input.readlines()
>     for line in lines:

It's also possible to do the readlines() as part of the for loop --

    for line in input.readlines():


>         if not line.strip():
>             # Skip blank line
>             continue

Unnecessary, because split() will accomplish the same ends as well.


>          (first, second) = line.split()
>         row = (float(first), float(second))
>         results.append(row)

These three lines can be replaced with

        results.append( map(float, line.split() ) )

and it *won't* error if there's not exactly two items in line.  The call
to map() applies the float() function to each item returned by
line.split(), and returns a list, which is then appended to results.  Note
that this makes results into a list of lists, rather than a list of
tuples.  If you care, you can nest a call to tuple() between the map() and
the append(), like so:

        results.append( tuple(map(float, line.split()) ) )

This is getting a bit too deeply nested to be easy to read, so it's also
reasonable to use a temporary variable to split this one into two lines
(simply for legibility):

        data = map(float, line.split())
        results.append(tuple(data))

One can also replace the map() with a list comprehension:

        data = [float(x) for x in line.split()]
    or
        results.append( tuple( [float(x) for x in line.split()] ) )

Of course, as noted, many of these are matters of personal taste.  Use or
not as you see fit.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jason at jorendorff.com  Sat Mar  9 01:00:35 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:00:35 -0600
Subject: instantiating a class
In-Reply-To: <3c899c2d@news.cc.umr.edu>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLKEBNDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

> I'm getting an AttributeError saying module lj_connect has no attribute
> lj_connect.

Probably Python isn't finding the correct lj_connect.py file.
In your script, right after you import lj_connect, try

print lj_connect.__file__

and see where the bogus module is coming from.  Then go move
or delete that file, and try again.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Fri Mar  1 07:13:15 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:13:15 +0900
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
Message-ID: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net>

I tried to use the shutil module... and to tell you the truth, it stinks. 
Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that has the 
equivalent of the unix shell utilities?

I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...

Here is my wish list. Each of these should implement a significant portion 
of what the GNU utils do. They should be robust, and give reasonable 
results, and reasonable exceptions.

touch, chmod, chown, chgrp, touch
df, du
cp, dd, install, mv, rm, shred

If there isn't an effort to make this, or if no one has done anything like 
this yet, I am willing to volunteer some time to do it. It would be really 
nice if they ended up being compatible with Windows and Macintosh - give 
them some powerful tools they didn't even know existed!

Jonathan








From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 23 23:28:54 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 23:28:54 -0500
Subject: is there gonna be a Core Python Programming 2e ?
References: <codq9uko6ueumep852po13m6pbtfs3r2ts@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a7jkm6$cnt$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <codq9uko6ueumep852po13m6pbtfs3r2ts at 4ax.com>,
John Warney  <john at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I was wondering if there was plans on CPP 2e ? (no its not c++, core
>python programming, lol) If so i would ask for a better binding than
>what is on CPP.  I would even pay more than what the current CPP is at
>now.

I know that Wes is gearing up to work on the second edition; I'll pass
this on to him (he doesn't read c.l.py regularly these days).  However,
I'll have to note that this is more up to the publisher than the author.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From chaimh at mapleusa.com  Sat Mar 23 18:23:47 2002
From: chaimh at mapleusa.com (Chase)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:23:47 GMT
Subject: MS Sql Server
Message-ID: <788n8.60257$bj1.19179906@news02.optonline.net>

Hi...

Wondering what the most accepted practice is, for communicating to Sql
Server Databases. Is it the ODBC module ? mxODBC ? Is there an ADO module ?

Any hints/help appreciated.






From oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl  Mon Mar 25 10:06:55 2002
From: oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl (Pawel Oleksik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:06:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python 2.1.2, Linux and 'os' library:    bug or (bad) feature?
References: <a754no$r3j$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl> <m3d6y1ft1z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a775bf$jbl$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl> <M_Il8.33339$l93.6548600@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <a7neef$p7h$2@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> Pawel Oleksik wrote:
>> No way! And as I've written above: python 2.1.1,
>> 2.1.0, and 2.0.1 work OK.
> 
> can you spot the bug?
> 
[...]
> </F>
> 


OK, OK, my previous statement was to categorical. I don't know where the
problem has come from. 

I've found the problem several weeks ago and it was tested on two
computers. (Because of it I had to downgrade py to 2.1.1 on every station I
worked on.)
Unfortunately a system on both of them has been completely 'reorganized',
so now I cannot get the configuration from the time the problems had been faced.

Additionally, on Friday I downloaded py 212 again to verify my thesis and
to give you some snapshots. But now, (un!)fortunately, it works quite well.
So, until I found the 'proper' configuration I may be treated here as someone
who met the UFO.

best regards
 p.o.


From info at yaritomo.net  Sun Mar 17 12:00:10 2002
From: info at yaritomo.net (rouge)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:00:10 +0900
Subject: !=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOS05cBsoQg==?=!
Message-ID: <0318102020010.379@oemcomputer>

???????

????????????????????
??????????????????????

?http://www.neoxanadu.net/~a_rouge/

?
????????????????????

????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????

?http://www.neoxanadu.net/~a_rouge/refuze.html


??????????????????????

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?----------------------------------------------
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?







From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 29 19:14:18 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 19:14:18 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <MPG.170e8d686c5d8561989683@news.nwlink.com> <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a8300q$4d2$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3CA4F5CB.E8961330 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
>common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
>quickly by something like:
>
>a = [0] * 1000000
>for i in xrange(1000000):
>    a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'

Right, and as you know, the simple way to fix this is:

for i in xrange(bignum):
    a[i] = "bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory" + str(i)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From marklists at mceahern.com  Mon Mar 18 17:07:14 2002
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:07:14 -0600
Subject: Initialization of base classes
In-Reply-To: <52mc9u0ghanm3bg0ajt8aro58bqce6ki2s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <NCBBLFCOHHDIKCAFGCFBIENEKEAA.marklists@mceahern.com>

[sorry.antispam at address.net]
> On pp 74 of Bealey's excellent book "Python Essential Reference, 2nd
> Ed" it is written:
>
> "When an instance is created [of a derived class], the __init__()
> methods of base classes are not invoked. Thus, it's up to a derived
> class to perform the proper initialization of its base classes, if
> necessary"
>
> Is this really true?

Consider this, though:

>>> class A:
...     def __init__(self):
...             print "A"
...
>>> class B:
...     def __init__(self):
...             print "B"
...
>>> class C(A):
...     def __init__(self):
...             pass
...
>>> class D(A, B):
...     def __init__(self):
...             pass
...
>>> w = A()
A
>>> x = B()
B
>>> y = C()
>>> z = D()

This seems to be the scenario the book is describing:  If the derived class
defines __init__(), the base classes' __init__()s will not get called unless
you call them explicitly.

Cheers,

// mark




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar  2 08:12:20 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 14:12:20 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5nhn5$8c3$0@216.39.172.122> <j47koweh9l.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5pd8q$qnd$0@216.39.172.122> <m3sn7jbcl9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <CB3g8.2032$aG5.9836@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <m3k7sv866j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

>    How do you tell Python to treat stdout as a tty even though it is
> actually a pipe? I'd like to run Unicode printing programs from within SciTE
> with I/O redirected to SciTE's output pane. There is also an issue with
> stdin where I'd like to tell Python to treat redirected input, fed through a
> pipe, as a tty.

If stdout is a pipe, you cannot use the WriteConsoleW API for output,
I believe. So you *have* to perform some encoding, and unless you can
find a good reason to use a different one, the system default encoding
would be used.

In general, I see the usability to print Unicode only for the
interpreter prompt. In all other cases (including cases where output
goes to a pipe), the application should explicitly use some codec.
That would normally be the codec for the locale's encoding, something
that is roughly determined as

  if system is windows:
    terminal_encoding = "mbcs" # (1)
  elif have_nl_langinfo and have_CODEPAGE:
    terminal_encoding = locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODEPAGE)
  else:
    terminal_encoding = sys.getdefaultencoding()

(1): This is actually incorrect. On the terminal, CP_OEMCP is used,
not CP_ACP (what "mbcs" uses). In the MS Console API, there are ways
to query and modify the code page of a console, which has no effect if
the raster font is used. 

If Python output goes to a pipe, I believe there is *no* way of
finding out what the right encoding should be: If the receiving end
writes to a text file, ANSI would be right, if the receiving end
prints to the console, OEM would be right - unless somebody has
changed the console code page for this console.

People are so used to characters not showing up correctly in a Windows
console that they won't worry if the application picks (1).

Regards,
Martin


From Peter.Gilbert at uwe.ac.uk  Mon Mar  4 04:08:16 2002
From: Peter.Gilbert at uwe.ac.uk (Pete Gilbert)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:08:16 GMT
Subject: Apology to Bill Gates (was Re: ASV module, CVS modules)
References: <mailman.1015227970.17974.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6ykn1jt.fsf@mercury.uwe.ac.uk>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [John Machin -- maybe]
> >     my_data.input_from_file("c:\test_data.csv", ASV.CSV(),
> >   File "C:\PYTHON22\ASV.py", line 222, in input_from_file
> >     file = open(input_file, "rb")
> > IOError: invalid argument: rb
> > Bill behaving badly: Seems like Bill chucks a wobbly if there is
> > a_bloody_tab_character in a file name. I could be maligning Bill
> > unjustly; could be GvR & Co -- I'll have a look at the Python source
> > in a minute -- but I'd bet a couple of pots of beer that it's down to
> > Bill.
> 
> Under Python 2.2 on Win98SE I get this:
> 
> Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> open('c:\test_data.csv', 'rb')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c:\test_data.csv'
> >>>
> 
> Also under 2.1 and 2.0, except under 2.0 the detail reads
> 
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c:\011est_data.csv'
> 
> instead.
> 
You must remember to "escape" the backslashes in path names with
a backslash, so for the above:
('c:\test_data.csv', 'rb')
should read:
('c:\\test_data.csv', 'rb')

Hope this helps
Pete

-- 
Pete Gilbert                
UWE,  Bristol	   	



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 12:10:18 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 09:10:18 -0800
Subject: a text processing problem: are regexpressions necessary?
References: <b03e80d.0203170529.6ac58327@posting.google.com> <a72ouj$hub5l$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203180910.74b17007@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all who responded... The advice was very helpful and I hope
to post a workable implementation when complete.

ciao,

Sandy


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar 30 16:37:49 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 22:37:49 +0100
Subject: getting infos from a website
References: <mailman.1017516408.9897.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91E1E65F93A61cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Zutroi Zatatakowski <abou at cam.org> wrote in
news:mailman.1017516408.9897.python-list at python.org: 
> Geoff Gerrietts wrote:
> Ok, I can now get the html source of the page I want. It stores it in
> a file:
> c = open('c:/python/tester', 'w')

you're opening the file for write only. use 'w+' for read-write
access. don't forget to use c.seek() to reposition the file pointer
if you want to read what you've just written.

> f =
> urllib.urlopen("http://www.coremud.org/cgi-bin/mycore.pl?stocks=1&font=
> Arial") 

here you get a file like object from which you can retreive the data.
e.g "print f.read()"

> k =
> urllib.urlretrieve("http://www.coremud.org/cgi-bin/mycore.pl?stocks=1&f
> ont=Arial", 'tester')

this creates a file named "tester" your file opened and bound to c
would be in confilct with that file if it were in the same directory
so you don't need c.

either you use f or k but you don't need both.

> c.close()
> 
> # But then I'm trying to read the file and it never outputs what I
> ask: 

because urlretrieve created its own file in the current directory.

> raw_input('press Return->')
> 
> c = open('c:/python/tester', 'r')
> c.read()
> 
> # readline(), read(), etc. don't seem to work because it doesn't
> output the 'tester' file. In this example I close then reopen the
> file, but even if I do not close it first, it doesn't output. Could it
> have something to do with file permission? (even if I'm on windoze -
> the 'tester' file in an 'archive' file).
> Anyone knows what I am doing wrong?

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar 19 20:46:07 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:46:07 +0100
Subject: Can't print national characters in IDLE with Python 2.2.1c1
Message-ID: <3C97E9DF.3070300@thinkware.se>

I don't know if something happened with 2.2.1rc1,
or with 2.2, since I used 2.1.2 until today, but
in IDLE I get:

Python 2.2.1c1 (#32, Mar 18 2002, 13:23:09) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
 >>> print '???'
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

With the command line version of Python on the same machine I get:

Python 2.2.1c1 (#32, Mar 18 2002, 13:23:09) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> print '???'
???
 >>>

PythonWin also works as expected, as does IDLE 0.8 on 2.1.2. No error.

Can someone explain this?



From jason at jorendorff.com  Thu Mar 14 07:52:04 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:52:04 -0600
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
In-Reply-To: <a6pcja$9cu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEGBDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> Andrew Dalke wrote:
> > ...
> > Insertions and deletions are also linear in the length of the list.
>
> Tim Peters wrote:
> > They're linear in the length of the list following the insert/delete
> > position.
>
> Does that mean the whole tail is rebuilt? Is there any instrumentation
> left over that logs access patterns? I wonder what real life uses show.

It's not a linked list.  It's more like a Java or Scheme "vector".
The "whole tail" is indeed "rebuilt" but that usually amounts to a
single memmove() call.  It's crazy fast, but it's still O(N) on the
length of the tail.

Glue this URL together...

  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/py
    thon/dist/src/Objects/listobject.c?rev=2.103&
    content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

and check out the source for yourself.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 17 12:59:51 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:59:51 +0100
Subject: time out socket
References: <jr4l8.22206$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <j4pu235b3c.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Billy Ng" <evebill8 at hotmail.com> writes:

> Would anybody please tell me how time out the socket.connect() if
> the host does not exists or is unable to connect, thanks!

The connect call will time out eventually on its own, after the
operating system's timeout has passed.

If you want to shorten the timeout, and you have a Posixish system,
you can set an alarm using signal.alarm. Make sure you install a
signal handler; it does not need to do anything since the connect will
raise EINTR.

Regards,
Martin



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 31 14:09:00 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:00 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <3CA75ECC.389A0186@alcyone.com>

Stefan Schwarzer wrote:

> but on the other hand have to keep in mind subtle interactions between
> bools and ints. For example, I consider it very unintutive that
> "True == 1" should by true but "True == 2" should be false.

Why?  Implicit conversions seem un-Pythonic, so why would this be
unfortunate?  When you write (True == 2) you're asking, "Is the value
true equal to the integer value 2?" the answer to which is clearly no. 
Same thing with something like (2 == "2") -- no conversions are going on
here so the test is false.

> Additionally, the PEP brings some more design ambiguity which I
> dislike. Should my function/method return 0, None, - or False, in a
> specific case?

Seems pretty clear, and it depends on what the function or method is
supposed to be computing.  If it's an object or lack-of-object, then
None.  If it's a Boolean, then True or False.  If it's an integer, then
some integer or 0.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From mixo at beth.uniforum.org.za  Tue Mar 19 09:57:33 2002
From: mixo at beth.uniforum.org.za (mixo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:57:33 +0200
Subject: Getopt / matching problem
Message-ID: <3C9751DD.1070204@beth.uniforum.org.za>

 From running the command "python  script.py --use=mixo"
I get the result
[('--user', 'mixo')]

Why do I get match? Is there something that I have left out?
If I pass "--u", "--us" to script I get the same result?


Here is a snippet of the code from "script.py"
.
.
.

def options():
   """
   Parses command line arguments
   """
   try:
     opts,args=getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:],
     'u:d:h:',['date=','help=','user='])
      #the above 2 lines are in one line
   except:
    usage()
    sys.exit(1)


   if (len(args) >=1):
    usage()
    sys.exit(1)

   date = None
   user = None
   print opts
   for op,val in opts:

     if op in ("-u","--user"):
      user=val

     if op in ("-d","--date"):
      date=val

     if op in ("-h","--help"):
      usage()

   return [user,date]
.
.
.
(user,date) = options()



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 29 11:49:46 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 17:49:46 +0100
Subject: Executing a specific function.
References: <mailman.1017416746.18302.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3eli3wc7p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Michael Saunders <michael at amtec.com> writes:

> I see that the Python C API provides several interfaces for
> compiling and executing Python code. But I don't want to just
> execute some Python code I want to call a particular function within
> a Python file. How do I call a Python function (from C) in a some
> .py file?

It depends on whether you already have a argument tuple, or whether
you have the arguments as C data. In the former case, use
PyObject_Call; in the latter case, use PyObject_CallFunction. Also
notice PyObject_CallMethod.

HTH,
Martin



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Mar  9 16:53:31 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 13:53:31 -0800
Subject: Tokenize a string or split on steroids
References: <4lpj8u4nbsoqjf2h4upadti62jh4sf4i59@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203091353.3f007ce0@posting.google.com>

Fernando Rodr?uez <frr at wanadoo.es> wrote in message news:<4lpj8u4nbsoqjf2h4upadti62jh4sf4i59 at 4ax.com>...
> I need to tokenize a string using several separator characters, not just one
> as split().  
> 
> For example, I want a function that returns ['one', 'two'] when given the
> string '{one}{two}' .
> 
> How can I do this? O:-)
 
re.split() has a plain vanilla flavour and a richer one -- banana
split :-)

>>> re.split(r'[{}]', '{one}{two}')
['', 'one', '', 'two', '']
>>> re.split(r'([{}])', '{one}{two}')
['', '{', 'one', '}', '', '{', 'two', '}', '']
>>>

You may want to handle the "empty" tokens that are returned by zapping
them with map(None, your_token_list), or you may want to step through
the list applying some higher logic -- this depends on what you are
really trying to do.

However, let's review your requirements, as your example was a little
specific.

What output do you want for this input: 'foo{one}bar{two}zot'?? Do you
want ['foo', 'one', 'bar', 'two', 'zot']? If so, use re.split. Do you
still want ['one', 'two']? If so, use re.findall.

For fancier tokenisation (other than for Python source), you will need
to go outside the Python distribution e.g. mx.TextTools package.


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Mar 15 17:23:58 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:23:58 -0800
Subject: Windows Installation
In-Reply-To: <a6trfp$f65$2@peabody.colorado.edu>; from fperez528@yahoo.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:09:44PM +0000
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <u94n0p932q6j12@news.supernews.com> <a6trfp$f65$2@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <20020315142358.B9356@ActiveState.com>

[Fernando P?rez wrote]
> John Roth wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Putting something into the start menu is dead easy. Just put a
> > link to the appropriate file into "c:Windows/Start Menu/Programs"
> > Note the blank, and watch your capitalization. Windows is
> > flaky about capitalization.
> > 
> 
> This is only for win9x. Win2k/xp have per-user Start Menu dirs, and their 
> location must be retrieved from the registry (Def. is C:\documents and 
> settings\user-name\Start Menu, but it can vary). So to have this be reliable, 
> there's no way around diving into the pleasures of the registry.

Not true. There is a win32api call to get these directories. Mind you, that
requires you to have the PyWin32 extensions installed.



>>> from win32com.shell import shellcon, shell
>>> shell.SHGetFolderPath(0, shellcon.CSIDL_APPDATA, 0, 0)
u'C:\\Documents and Settings\\trentm\\Application Data'
>>> shell.SHGetFolderPath(0, shellcon.CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA, 0, 0)
u'C:\\Documents and Settings\\All Users\\Application Data'
>>>
>>> shell.SHGetFolderPath(0, shellcon.CSIDL_COMMON_STARTMENU, 0, 0)
u'C:\\Documents and Settings\\All Users\\Start Menu'

If you are running on Win9x then you will get different directories
appropriate for that version of Windows.

See this link for other CSIDL_*'s
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/shellcc/platform/Shell/reference/enums/csidl.asp


Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From jim at jim.jim  Thu Mar 28 12:47:59 2002
From: jim at jim.jim (jimh)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:59 -0800
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <mailman.1017265646.6616.python-list@python.org> <a7tgkv$t3m$1@web1.cup.hp.com> <MYEo8.44167$cB5.11469@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a7vl0f$lk7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

> >
> > I will have to think about that one.  When a class accesses the
> > MessageCatalog, it may be requesting message text from _other_ classes'
> > errors.  Also, these are often called from cgi scripts, so they are run
as
> a
> > one-shot deal.  Also(!), the case of an error is (theoretically)
uncommon
> > and the MessageCatalog is only instantiated if an error occurs.  That
way,
> > if no error occurs, there is no overhead with importing the
> MessageCatalog.
> >
> Bear in mind that the import will only cause the module to be executed
once
> no matter how many times it is imported. So importing it may not be as
much
> of an ovberhead as you imagine (especially since you seem to be happy to
> import fifty other modules to make up your program).
>
> regards
>  Steve
>

Just a small comment: during "normal" operation of the program (actually a
transient cgi script), only a few of the 50 files are imported.  Only when
an error occurs (in which case we no longer care about performance) is the
MessageCatalog (and the remaining 50 files) imported.

Jim





From andy at reportlab.com  Sun Mar 31 22:28:01 2002
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:28:01 GMT
Subject: The fastest XML parser around
Message-ID: <mailman.1017654423.12312.clpa-moderators@python.org>

ReportLab (www.reportlab.com) are proud to announce the release of pyRXP,
the fastest XML parsing toolkit for python, and possibly for any other
language
anywhere:

                     http://www.reportlab.com/xml/pyrxp.html

pyRXP is a wrapper around the excellent RXP parser developed by Richard
Tobin at the University of Edinburgh.  Our goal is very simple:  get an
entire
XML document into memory, and validated, as quickly and efficiently
as possible.   You can parse and validate Hamlet in a tenth of a second on a
standard PC.

pyRXP constructs a tree of tuples in memory with a single API call; the tree
is easy to navigate in standard Python code and can be wrapped up with
DOM-like 'lazy accessor' nodules.  It is standards-compliant
and validating, and is at least 30x faster and 6x more memory efficient than
the
(non-validating) minidom parser in the standard Python distribution.  It
also
comfortably beats the Microsoft and Java (Xerces) parsers in our tests.

Enjoy!


Andy Robinson
CEO/Chief Architect, ReportLab Inc.
April 1st 2001










From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 19:35:35 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:35:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: string to dictionary
In-Reply-To: <a2972632.0203011522.16f1b8e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020301163535.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 01-Mar-2002 les ander wrote:
> Hi, 
> i have a list of strings like this:
> 
> aList=[ 'a_1 b_1', 'a_2 b_2', 'a_3 b_3',...]
> 
> i want to convert this to a dictionary with a_i -> b_i without
> using loops (it is trivial to do it with loops)
> i tried this 
> 
> dict={}
> map(lambda x,d=dict: c=string.split(x), d[c[0]]=c[1], aList)
> 
> but it complains that "keyword can't be an expression"
> can someone please help me get this right?

not sure if there is a better way to do this, I just wanted to make what you
had work.  Use of '=' is not allowed in lambdas.

d.setdefault(*string.split(x)) works for me here.  Yes it is quite ugly.  The
*foo syntax causes the tuple that split returns to be flattened into an
argument list.  This also may not work on 1.5, do not have a copy here to test.



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 06:05:01 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:05:01 -0000
Subject: Newbie: What the 'PEP' means?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCEC0@intrepid>

> From:	Petr Prikryl [SMTP:Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz]
> Sent:	Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:55 AM
> Just curious -- what the acronym PEP with a number means?
 
Python Enhancement Proposal.
 
> P.S.: RTFM expected, but anyway ;-)
 
OK then - RTFM. <wink>

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From krissepu at vip.fi  Fri Mar 29 11:15:06 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:15:06 +0200
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <mailman.1017415785.13436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA4930A.1AAC4F41@vip.fi>

Well,

        Excel -clone written in wxPython would be cool.

-pekka-

cruciatuz wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:20:33AM +0000, Fused wrote:
>
> > Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> > have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> > rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> > challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
> a programming game like realtimebattle, written entirely in python,
> would be very cool.
>
> have a look at:
>
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/realtimebattle/
>
> ... if you're interested
>
> 2 things:
>
> - other programmers (newbies like me) can learn functional programming
>   in python while building own bots (movement algo's etc.)
>
> - it doens't need to be a "war-game", it can also simulate bots in other
>   situations (it would be great if there would be a map with different
>   things on it, and the bot has to move around, climb, swim and so on -
>   but it has to be programmed before _how_ he should do that and which
>   parts (item-classes) he should use.)
>
> - every main part of the bot's body should be a python-object in a main
>   bot object - these objects will be manipulated while the bot is trying
>   to solve the map.
>
> - the bot who is the fastest in solving an arena, will be the winner.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 11 14:22:40 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:40 GMT
Subject: lambda question
References: <mailman.1015866267.21439.python-list@python.org> <1g6j8.24364$n4.4758442@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <4u7j8.24389$n4.4764765@newsc.telia.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> if so, the following should do the trick:
>
>     def exe1(f,list):
>         return map(lambda x,list=list:eval(f),list)

doh.  should of course be:

     def exe1(f,list):
         return map(lambda x,f=f:eval(f), list)

</F>




From usenet at thinkspot.net  Wed Mar 20 14:21:43 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:21:43 -0800
Subject: Remove empty lines
References: <a7ajgm$8q1$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016649277.6397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a79rc7.3vs819v.1@kserver.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:33:55 -0800, "Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016649277.6397.python-list at python.org>:

> The problem is here, I think.  Split in Python appears to return the
> separator, so the '\n' characters are still there.  If that's the problem,
> this should fix it.
> 
> if line == '\n':
> 
> At least, that's my suspicion, without testing.  (In Perl, the separators
> are not returned by default, so if you came to Python from Perl, like me,
> this is confusing.)

Here is what happens:

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> mystring = 'Hello.\n\nHow are you today?\nFine, thanks.\n\n\nSee ya!'
>>> mylist = mystring.split('\n')
>>> mylist
['Hello.', '', 'How are you today?', 'Fine, thanks.', '', '', 'See ya!']
>>> mylist = filter(None, mylist)
>>> mylist
['Hello.', 'How are you today?', 'Fine, thanks.', 'See ya!']
>>> 

It doesn't return the separator, however, it does return empty strings
between consecutive occurrences of the separator.

One option for removing them, is the filter function.

Or, you could use list comprehensions:

>>> 
>>> mystring
'Hello.\n\nHow are you today?\nFine, thanks.\n\n\nSee ya!'
>>> mystring.split('\n')
['Hello.', '', 'How are you today?', 'Fine, thanks.', '', '', 'See ya!']
>>> mylist = [part for part in mystring.split('\n') if part]
>>> mylist
['Hello.', 'How are you today?', 'Fine, thanks.', 'See ya!']
>>> 

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From sam_collett at lycos.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 07:31:54 2002
From: sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 04:31:54 -0800
Subject: File Attributes conversion
Message-ID: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com>

I can get file attributes using os.path.getsize and os.path.getmtime
etc, but I am not sure how to convert them into something more
understandable

e.g.
File Size to display in bytes (if < 3kb), kilobytes (if < 2MB) and
megabytes (> 2MB). How would you do that (the value I get is 12345L -
what is the L?)

Modified/Created time to be displayed as GMT (DD mm YYYY, HH MM am/pm)
14/09/2002, 5:54pm (is it in seconds currently [starting from which
year]?)

I am doing this on Windows 98SE, is it possible to get the code to
work cross platform as well?

TIA
PS Can you also get other attributes (read-only, hidden, compressed,
system, archive, etc)?


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Mar 24 13:24:35 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 20:24:35 +0200
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org> <kuadsx2958.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ku663l2598.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen
<peter at engcorp.com> writes:

| Erno Kuusela wrote:
|| 
|| In article <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list at python.org>, "Clark C
|| . Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> writes:
|| 
|| | Is there some rule of thumb that I can use to estimate,
|| | for example, take the character data you have and multiply by
|| | a factor of 4 to find the in-memory footprint of tuples, and
|| | each map is 1K plus 64 bytes per entry..
|| 
|| make a zillion of them, check memory usage increase with ps (or
|| equivalent on your platform), and divide by zillion.

| Keeping in mind Python's propensity for finding already-existing
| entities and binding to them instead of creating new objects.

| The difference in memory consumption between creating a list 
| of size 1,000,000 filled with 0's and the same size list filled 
| with integers from 0 to 999,999 is rather large...

you make it sound more mysterious than it is - only numbers under
100 and identifier-like string literals get interned, afaik.

  -- erno


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 09:18:05 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 09:18:05 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com> <slrnaacgi8.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA6ABB6.71786096@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a875qt$qmp$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3CA6ABB6.71786096 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Yeah, I know.  I think you and Aahz missed my (admittedly puny)
>point, which was to hypothesize _at least one case_ where it
>was conceivably desirable by someone to try to copy a string.

No, I didn't miss your point, I was just chastising you for posting
incorrect code without posting a solution.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 11:26:50 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:26:50 +0000
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
Message-ID: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
without drowning. 
-- 
Robin Becker


From boud at valdyas.org  Sun Mar 24 16:18:33 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:18:33 -0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> holger at trillke.net wrote:
>> 
>> > >how could you stop a running threading.Thread from the *outside*? of
>> > >course i could introduce some kind of flag into the event loop of the
>> > >Thread.run-method, but i really would prefer to have a non-instrusive
>> > >way for several reasons.
>> > >
>> > >Any way to do this?
>> >
>> > Not really.  Why do you want to do it?
>> 
>> You really want to know it? I am currently working
>> on (coded) agents which move through the network.
> 
> "The network"?  Which one?  The Internet, or an internal
> network over which you have full control?  Who controls
> the servers on which these agents will be running?
> 
>> But of course i'd sometimes like to shut down some or
>> all agent-threads.
> 
> Run them in a separate process and kill the process when
> it's "sometime"?  If you can live without individual
> control.  Maybe you can identify groups of them?
> 

Actually, Holger's problem is very well known to people
implementing agents. Agents run within the application, but
they don't share objects (not often, anyway), so killing them
is safe. But neither in Java nor in Python you can easily kill
them.

Running each agent in its own process makes the system very 
costly in terms of resources, makes it necessary for the agents
to implement inter-process messaging. Not to mention them
showing up individually in _top_...

>> Is the questions actually strange in any way? Like something
>> you wouldn't usually like to do?
> 
> Yes, that's the case.  It's generally considered to lead to
> undefined behaviour if you do manage to kill a thread from
> the outside, because of resource locking issues and such.
> 

That's the received opinion indeed. It still leads to problems.
I mean -- it's why you can kill a process, but not a thread. But in
an agent system, every agent (presumably running a thread, although
I've implemented systems where agents share threads, cooperative
multi-tasking agents) is on its own, and shouldn't own objects
or locks.

> Maybe you can get by with Stackless Python?  The microthreads
> provided there ought to be more easily killable, though
> I haven't tried it myself.

They aren't -- not really. I tried myself. See my article on
Stackless at InformIT.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From phr at localhost.localdomain  Tue Mar  5 19:04:54 2002
From: phr at localhost.localdomain (paul rubin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:04:54 GMT
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org> <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1015320430.17383.python-list@python.org> <just-7D3CD7.12054205032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1015327810.26463.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3r8myv9zj.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> writes:
> Both approaches make sense to me. On systems with no threads
> at all, we have only one choice, Paul's, unless we code
> something thread-alike for the specific platform.
> When real threads are available, the other is more powerful.

I like the idea of using microthreads when possible and resorting to
OS threads for legacy extensions that do blocking i/o.  There should
be a way to code new extensions to use nonblocking i/o and let
Stackless know that it's ok to call those extensions from
microthreads.


From nospam at [127.0.0.1]  Sat Mar 16 17:19:03 2002
From: nospam at [127.0.0.1] (Chris)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:19:03 +0000
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>
 <oa5k8.27154$lM.25760@news2.bloor.is> <a6r6tq$47e$1@usenet.otenet.gr>
 <fmUpYHBB+jk8EwZf@[127.0.0.1]>
 <slrna9559u.g52.orangefree89@localhost.localdomain>
 <k5Ok8.3405$523.272466@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <gZhWHOAXT8k8EwMW@[127.0.0.1]>

In article <k5Ok8.3405$523.272466 at ozemail.com.au>, Patrick 
<netlangau at yahoo.com.au> writes
>
>"orangefree89" <orangefree89 at localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
>news:slrna9559u.g52.orangefree89 at localhost.localdomain...
>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:37:53 +0000, Chris <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you.
>> > I downloaded number 4.
>> > However, it is in a strange form (Tex) for a windows user.
>> > Is it any use to me in that form?
>> > And can it be obtained in any other form?
>> > (It does look good.)
>>
>> Yassas.  I'm pretty sure it is also available in pdf.
>
>http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCS.php

Thanks - downloading it now.

-- 
Chris


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Mar 27 09:55:50 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:55:50 +0300
Subject: Strange behavior
In-Reply-To: <414401922FF9D011BEC600805FEA07E301A865DC@XI0SXJ01>; from TBrixi@CSAS.cz on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 03:41:57PM +0100
References: <414401922FF9D011BEC600805FEA07E301A865DC@XI0SXJ01>
Message-ID: <20020327175550.F30084@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 03:41:57PM +0100, Brixi Tom?? wrote:
>    UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

   http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.102.htp

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From roy at panix.com  Tue Mar 12 15:15:46 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 15:15:46 -0500
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <roy-59D1B0.07392212032002@news1.panix.com> <slrna8sfpd.7vj.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <a6lnli$mfg$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrna8sfpd.7vj.tim at vegeta.ath.cx>,
> What does he think of Ruby?

He thinks it's pretty cool.  To the best of my knowledge, he's never
written a single line of code in either Ruby or Python, but he's sure
Ruby is a much better language.  Funny how that works :-)


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 19:44:52 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:44:52 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <MPG.170e8d686c5d8561989683@news.nwlink.com> <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com> <a8300q$4d2$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA50A84.BA29BBCE@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <3CA4F5CB.E8961330 at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
> >common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
> >quickly by something like:
> >
> >a = [0] * 1000000
> >for i in xrange(1000000):
> >    a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'
> 
> Right, and as you know, the simple way to fix this is:
> 
> for i in xrange(bignum):
>     a[i] = "bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory" + str(i)

...or add just 'x' instead of str(i).  I do know this, but 
I was searching for ideas as to why one would want strings 
to be copyable, as three people had just asked ...  :)

-Peter


From Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz  Wed Mar 27 05:25:04 2002
From: Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:25:04 +0100
Subject: Encoding when building XML via minidom? (...beginner needs advice)
Message-ID: <a7s6mn$eip$1@news.nextra.cz>

Hi gurus,

(I am very new to Python and to this group.  I did RTFM's,
but--you know--it is a lot of information for the Python
beginner.  Please, be patient with me ;-)

Briefly: I want to parse txt files with some internal structure
and convert them into well-formed XML internal format
(custom markup).  I do not know how to deal with
windows-1250 input encoding and how to produce
the XML output with the same encoding.

Motivation:
I have just learned the basics of Python.  The first thing that I want
to try is to rewrite one of my Perl scripts for processing a kind of
txt documents into other formats.  The main motivation is to enhance
the functionality of the utilities and to rewrite them into Python
(basicly, to learn the Python better ;).

Problem:
The txt documents use some formating rules and here-defined
markup (not compatible with anything standard, tailored for
the purpose).  The encoding of the txt documents is windows-1250
and they frequently use characters with code above 128 (Czech
texts written in Windows encoding).  (It is required to keep
unchanged the format, the encoding, and the tools for producing
them.)

It seems that XML is the right format for generating the intermediate
form of the documents, and it also seems that DOM is the right
model/apparatus to be used.  I tried some simple things with
Python's (2.1.1) xml.dom.minidom implementation.  I was able to build
some simple xml document that contained ASCII texts (just a sequence
of dom.createElement(), dom.createTextNode(), elem.appendChild(),
and dom.toxml()).

I probably need some advice for what is the best way to create my
own parser and how to use it with xml.dom.minidom.  The main
problem is the correct handling of the input encoding with respect to
the produced XML.  Ideally, the output encoding should remain
the same, and the output should start with:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1250" ?>

Are there some prefered ways of integrating the parser with xml.dom,
in Python?  Are there some tutorials on how to work with encoding
conversions? (Python's DOM works with Unicode internally, doesn't it?)
Are there some means to make writing the plain text with indentation
easier, in Python?

Thanks for you patience and for you help,
  Petr

--
Petr Prikryl (prikrylp at skil dot cz)




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Sat Mar 30 16:10:33 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:10:33 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <2zRcLUAVjXp8EwVv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <dRpp8.2595$d7.800513@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2zRcLUAVjXp8EwVv at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> In article <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list at python.org>, Guido van
> Rossum <guido at python.org> writes
> ......

***

> >    1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.
> no. If needed implement a library module for those who want to bog down
> their code. This will not improve the python interpreter one bit and has
> already consumed vast quantities of hot air ie has taken time and effort
> away from more important issues.

I second this suggestion.  The language is good, and the presumption should
be not to change it w/o substantial reason.  This doesn't seem like there is
substantial reason to me.

***

> --
> Robin Becker




From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 13:29:53 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 18:29:53 GMT
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
Message-ID: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi,

With Python-2.2.1c1, I find `make test' fails on my old version of
Linux/x86 and it fails to build on an also old version of AIX.  Should
I go straight to SourceForge and fill in bug forms or do people tend to
discuss the problems here first?

I can see the problem with the AIX build.  Linux SIGSEGVs in
test_calendar on a call to strftime.

Cheers,


Ralph.



From oliphant at ee.byu.edu  Tue Mar 19 17:10:46 2002
From: oliphant at ee.byu.edu (Travis Oliphant)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:10:46 -0500
Subject: basic statistics in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1016232751.9857.python-list@python.org>
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
 <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
 <mailman.1016232751.9857.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0203191703300.23929-100000@oliphant.ee.byu.edu>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Tim Churches wrote:
> >
> > this is really embarassing :-)
> >
> > >>> import win32com.client
> > >>> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch('Excel.Application')
> > >>> xl.WorksheetFunction.StDev(1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1)
> > 11.565627361442019
> > >>> xl.WorksheetFunction.Pearson((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
> > -0.48507125007266594
>
> Hmm, how about these legacy-free solutions...
>
> Using Walter Moreira's RPy module ( http://rpy.sourceforge.net ) and R (
> http://www.r-project.org ):
>
> >>> from rpy import *
> >>> r.var((1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1)) ** 0.5
> 11.565627361442019
> >>> r.cor((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
> -0.48507125007266594
>
> Or using Gary Strangman's stats.py module (
> http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/Neural_Systems_Group/gary/python.html ):
>
> >>> from stats import *
> >>> stdev((1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1))
> 11.565627361442017
> >>> pearsonr((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
> (-0.48507125007266594, 0.40754435760237651)
>
> Note that stats.py also returns the 2-tailed p-value as well (which can
> also easily be obtained from R via RPy).

Note, also that this works in SciPy

from scipy import *

>>> std((1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1))
11.565627361442017
>>> stats.pearsonr((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
(-0.48507125007266594, 0.40754435760237651)

The stats module in SciPy (in CVS) is getting quite useful.

It calculates current the pdf, cdf, and ppf (inverse cdf) for over 80
continuous distribution functions.

Together with Gary's stats.py, the stats sub-package of SciPy is coming
along.

If you'd like to be part of improving this package go to www.scipy.org and
check it out.

The 0.1 release is now quite old, so it takes a little willingness to get
the package installed (you need a fortran compiler and the atlas
libraries).

There seem to be lots of people re-inventing the wheel, here.   SciPy is
trying to be an easy-to-install package that has all the basic,
commonly-implemented algorithms as well as tools to help you write your
algorithms in a faster, compiled language.

Jump on board.  Lot's has been done, but lot's remains to be done.  The
earlier you join us, the more impact you will have.

-Travis Oliphant






From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 25 00:25:15 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:25:15 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325111055.044fbd08@202.95.131.154>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEGFOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tripp Scott]
> thanks for the tip. actually, the essence of what i wanted to
> ask was: "can that SOMETHING be a list of more than one elements
> which will be _flatly_ added to the result list."

No.  len([f(x) for x in y]) == len(y) whenever no exception occurs,
regardless of the form of f() or type of y.

> as another example, can i generate this list
>
>   [1,1  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4]
>
> with a list comprehension that contains one 'for' clause?

Sure, via the obvious spelling:

    [i for i in 1,1, 2,2,2, 3,3,3,3, 4,4]

Cleverness can't improve one that.

simplicity-is-a-feature-ly y'rs  - tim




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar  2 13:04:44 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:04:44 -0600
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for
        numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org>
        <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <15489.5180.402637.125675@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Fernando> It's not Python 2.2 itself:

    Fernando> % python
    Fernando> Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 10 2002, 13:29:43)
    Fernando> [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin
    Fernando> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>>> 1e-200**2
    Fernando> 0.0

According to the pow man page on my Mandrake 8.1 system it suggests that
ERANGE should be set if its first arg is zero.  This appears to happen when
x is around 1.5717e-162.  I suspect a bug in glibc (I have version 2.2.4).

In the region where the problem occurs, Python's float_pow() looks like

        PyFPE_START_PROTECT("pow", return NULL)
        ix = pow(iv, iw);
        PyFPE_END_PROTECT(ix)
        Py_SET_ERANGE_IF_OVERFLOW(ix);

Setting a break immediately after the pow() call shows that ERANGE is set
even though it appears to have correctly returned 0.  Perhaps if iv < 1, ix
== 0, and errno is ERANGE, errno should be cleared, at least for certain
versions of glibc?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From hugues103 at voila.fr  Tue Mar 12 15:53:27 2002
From: hugues103 at voila.fr (Hugo)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:53:27 GMT
Subject: serial port communication
Message-ID: <3c8e6884.10907140@news.planetis.com>

Hi,

I try to have a communication between two computers using the serial
ports.

In the interpretor, I just try these instructions :
>>> from os import *
>>> fd = open ('/dev/ttyS0', O_RDWR)
>>> write (fd, "a")
1
>>> read (fd, 1)
and everything stop : the read() instruction is probably waiting for
something (I send a character from the other computer but it doesn't
work) ? a stop byte ? or I have use a "timeout" thing ? or the termios
module ? I don't know !

Thank you for any help.


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Fri Mar  8 20:45:47 2002
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 01:45:47 GMT
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8iq3f.lcd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

N Becker <nbecker at fred.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> def g():
>   f()

This is the effectively same as 

g=f

...and therefore probably not what you meant.

Try to explain what you need.

Remember that the you can pass the function object around without calling
it, by just passing its name (f) around, without the ().

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 18 17:35:32 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:35:32 GMT
Subject: XML help
References: <AYpl8.16002$i66.686070@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <UYtl8.33206$l93.6520519@newsb.telia.net>

Vincent Foley wrote:
> I have a XML document <http://freshmeat.net/projects-xml/vim/vim.xml>.
> I want to put the latest_version value in a variable.  How would I do
> that?

here's yet another way to do it:

    from xmltoys.ElementTree import parse

    tree = parse("vim.xml")
    project = tree.getroot().find("project")
    latest_version = project.find("latest_version").text

    for elem in project:
        print elem.tag, elem.text

download: http://effbot.org/downloads/
overview: http://effbot.org/guides/element-trees.htm

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From plugin at airtel.net  Sun Mar  3 13:43:36 2002
From: plugin at airtel.net (VUG)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:43:36 +0100
Subject: C++, Python & Threads
Message-ID: <1015181073.276455@seux119>

Hi all. I'm modifying Python source code in order to have more control over
threads (I need to kill threads without adding controls on them, and it
seems not to be posible). I'm modifying the function
PyThread_start_new_thread to return de PID of the thread. The modified
function is:

int PyThread_start_new_thread(void (*func)(void *), void *arg)
{
     long rv;
     int success = 0;

     dprintf(("%ld: PyThread_start_new_thread called\n",
PyThread_get_thread_ident()));

     if (!initialized)
          PyThread_init_thread();
    rv =_beginthread(func, 0, arg); /* use default stack size */

    if (rv != -1) {
      success = 1;
      printf("%ld: PyThread_start_new_thread succeeded: %ld\n",
PyThread_get_thread_ident(), rv);

      printf("PID: %d\n", rv);
     }
  return success;
}

When I launch python console and I create a thread I get a NUMBER but......
This number doesn't the same as the one I get by the function
thread.get_ident(). What's wrong in the code?

Thanks
--vug




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 17 21:16:33 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:16:33 +0100
Subject: how to print class names, not references
In-Reply-To: <3C9544B5.47CD0918@pop.ntlworld.com>
References: <3C9544B5.47CD0918@pop.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20020318021633.GA80883@lilith.hqd-internal>

* a.clarke11 <a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com> [2002-03-18 01:36 +0000]:
> Hi,
> I wrote a function of x, where later in the program x is substituted by
> class names. In the function, print x is used, but this returns
> <__main__.Player instance at 0x38b1ce90> rather than the plain old class
> name that  I wanted.
> How can I print the name instead?
> Thanks for your help, Pythoneers...
 
Quick hint: x.__class__.__name__

Should be in the docs, but I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 8.1 ?C      Wind: 1.2 m/s



From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  4 11:17:44 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:17:44 GMT
Subject: C++, Python & Threads
References: <1015181073.276455@seux119> <m3elj1weyv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1015255451.705549@seux119>
Message-ID: <usn7g2tj5.fsf@python.net>

"VUG" <plugin at airtel.net> writes:

> Ok. Thanks. I've taking a look at Python 2.2 and it works in the way I need.
> But I still having problems. I've embedded Python in my application so I
> need to modify Python source. I can't find this source in the Python's Home
> page. Isnt't the source code for Python 2.2 available? If not, How can I
> modify python 1.6.1 source in order to work the way I need?

http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.2/Python-2.2.tgz

Found by going to http://www.python.org/2.2 and clicking in the
obvious places.

-- 
  It's a measure of how much I love Python that I moved to VA, where
  if things don't work out Guido will buy a plantation and put us to
  work harvesting peanuts instead.     -- Tim Peters, comp.lang.python


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Fri Mar  8 10:35:47 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:35:47 +0100
Subject: Turn string into function call
In-Reply-To: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com>
References: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020308153546.GC2591@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 08/03/02 ? 05:45, N Becker ?crivit:
> What's the best way to turn a string naming a function into a function call?
 
Use a dictionary that maps your commands to the relevant functions, then
call the function using the dictionary. This gives the idea (hopefully):

def command1func(): print "a"
def command2func(): print "b"
commands = {'command1': command1func, 'command2': command2func}

curcmd = 'command1'
if curcmd in commands.keys():
    commands['command1']()
else:
    print "illegal command"

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 10.6 ?C      Wind: 2.9 m/s



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:02 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:41:02 -0800
Subject: Need help with plotting
References: <3c9cd61e.8124286@news>
Message-ID: <a7im4a$lk6vk$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca
> I'm new to Python and doing pretty well with it so far. 
> One thing that has me stumped is finding an "easy" way, 
> or any way, for that matter, to plot simple graphs. 


I was really impressed by RPy

http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy

Check out Tim Churches' example at

http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/rpy_demo.html

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Mar 13 22:44:58 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:44:58 -0000
Subject: Another socket/thread question
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net> <3C8FA777.8A5B07D1@accessforall.nl> <7934d084.0203131616.488b4ace@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1016077491.468764@yasure>

Quoth amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys):
...
| Far cleaner to open a control pipe to the thread and have the thread
| wait on both the socket and the pipe.  This applies equally to
| multi-process and multi-threaded models.  This has the added advantage
| that you can extend the shutdown protocol to do other things such as
| request status, stats, or state-changes.

Can't argue with that!

| One hassle with this might be x-platform semantics, as I believe
| windows is broken in this regard.  Still I would assume windows can
| still do pid/interface restricted tcp or preferably unix domain
| sockets, which would allow you to emulate the above.

On BeOS, which has I think similar problems, the only option was
a TCP socket.  So I bound to 127.0.0.1, and closed the bind port
after one accept.  I think that's acceptable under the circumstances,
though it would probably not be an acceptable cross-platform solution -
on UNIX, it would be better to use a pipe.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar  9 17:17:59 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 23:17:59 +0100
Subject: httplib question
References: <mailman.1015710917.10190.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37kol9yi0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"David McInnis" <david at dataovation.com> writes:

> I need to write a small client that can access https (SSL) page?  Is
> this possible with httplib under 2.1?  

It is possible, but you need SSL support in your socket
module. Whether your socket module provides SSL support depends on the
platform you are using, and whether SSL support was activated at
compile time.

Regards,
Martin



From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 23:51:26 2002
From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203011951001.1238-100000@mars.localdomain>

There appears to be a serious bug in Python 2.2 that severely limits its
usefulness for numerical computation:

# Python 1.5.2 - 2.1

>>> 1e200**2
inf
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0

# Python 2.2

>>> 1e-200**2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')
>>> 1e200**2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

This produces the following serious effects: after hours of numerical
computation, just as the error is converging to zero, the whole thing
suddenly unravels.

Note that try/except is completely useless for this purpose.

I hope this is unintended behavior and that there is an easy fix.
Have any of you experienced this?  


Huaiyu





From arturs at iidea.pl  Fri Mar 29 04:05:43 2002
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:05:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa8bts.jer.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

Sloth wrote:
> I've looked at Apache, Xitami, Zope, Medusa, et. al and think they are
> wonderful applications.  On the other hand, they are overkill for what
> I want to be able to do - have Python start a CGI server, serve a
> page, get form data, get data from a database, and display dynamic
> content.  I don't need anything industrial strength, just something
> that can handle a single user.

Boa. http://sf.net/projects/boa
Works perfectly. Easy to setup in a few minutes. Minimal load.
If you need to just run Python CGI's, you should be very happy with it.

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org
http://mf.gnome.pl


From josephgrossberg at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 13:13:02 2002
From: josephgrossberg at hotmail.com (Joe Grossberg)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 10:13:02 -0800
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
Message-ID: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com>

Is there any effective difference between the two?

(Sorry if this has already been addressed; it's difficult to search on
punctuation.)

>>> name = "joe"
>>> name <> 'Joe'; name != 'Joe'; name <> 'joe'; name != 'joe'
1
1
0
0

Doesn't this violate the Python principle that " There should be
one--and preferably only one--obvious way to do it." if I'm
interpreting that correctly?


From gimbo at ftech.net  Thu Mar 21 05:34:45 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:45 +0000
Subject: arrays help
In-Reply-To: <000501c1cfb6$495eed80$77c75ed1@umesh>
References: <000501c1cfb6$495eed80$77c75ed1@umesh>
Message-ID: <20020321103444.GB1667@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 06:23:55PM -0800, Umesh Persad wrote:

> background. I am programming a game and I wanted to
> represent a gameboard by a double subscripted array.
> How do I do this in Python? Thanks,

You could use a dictionary, keyed by a tuple:

# empty chessboard:
board = {}
for x in range(8):
    for y in range(8):
        board[(x, y)] = None

# start placing pieces:
board[(0, 0)] = rook(black)
board[(0, 1)] = knight(black)
...
for y in range(8):
    board[(1, 8)] = pawn(black)

etc.

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 21:29:18 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:29:18 -0500
Subject: Learning from imperfect lectures
References: <mailman.1015496952.15967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8821FE.B81C4A5D@engcorp.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> 
> I do not remember who told me this, but it seems that students
> better learn from poorly constructed lectures than perfect ones.
> Because, they need to be _active_ in constructing their own system
> rather than _passively_ "eat" readymaid knowledge frames.

Wow.  Deep... I like this (to me) completely new idea.  

Anyone know where it came from?  References to a study or something?

Someone I know worked for months (on and off) on a presentation that 
could have been done (imperfectly) in a week.  When it was presented,
the reception seemed to me rather luke-warm, in spite of apparently
strong interest in the audience ahead of it (and after).  The 
presentation struck me at the time as being _very_ "polished", but
perhaps with too little unsaid for someone to question, or think
about.  I suspect this is the reason why it didn't seem to work.

-Peter


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Mar  8 02:34:26 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:34:26 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEHJOCAA.tim@zope.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081030500.3722-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Tim Peters wrote:

>Quoting Guido's new "Parade of the PEPs" essay at
>
>    http://www.python.org/doc/essays/pepparade.html

Just one comment about

  PEP 270 - uniq method for list objects

- maybe adding dict <-> list conversion functions
will make this automatically?

But how? Perlishly:

dict([1, 2, 3, 4]) -> {1: 2, 3: 4}

or some other way:

dict([1,2], [3,4]) -> {1:3, 2:4}
or
dict([(1,2), (3,4)]) -> {1:3, 2:4}

(so, dict.items() will be automatically reverse operation)

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, March 08, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "People are always available for work in the past tense." _/




From narnett at mccmedia.com  Sun Mar 31 01:52:36 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:52:36 -0800
Subject: Most important extensions?
In-Reply-To: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJKEEHJOAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>

Would sgmllib, htmllib and urllib count as two or three?  I mention the
first two partly because they could benefit from some teaching; I had to
stare at examples for a while before I grasped what was going on.  All three
replaced quite a lot of my old Perl.  Does Tkinter/Pmw count as an
extension?

Don't forget to tell them how easy it is to kick the semicolon habit.

Nick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Aahz
> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 7:52 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Most important extensions?
>
>
> I'm teaching Python for [Perl] Programmers at OSCON this July.  I've
> already decided to mention mxODBC, NumPy, and PIL, plus PythonPoint (aka
> ReportLab) gets a mention on my title page.  I'd like this group to vote
> on the most important extensions for me to add to this list.  Please vote
> for no more than three.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From herrn at gmx.net  Sat Mar 16 16:02:49 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:02:49 +0100
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
In-Reply-To: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>
References: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>
Message-ID: <20020316210249.GA26813@lurkabove.darkstar>

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 11:45:30PM +0300, Jeffrey-man wrote:
> Learning the Begginers Guide, I found an exercise. It tells me:
> "Write a program that continually reads in numbers from the user and adds
> them together until the sum reaches 100."
> Can anybody help me?
> 
>  -----
> 
> sum_stop = 100
> num = input("Please enter the number: ")
> 
> for sum in range(num+num,sum_stop):
>     print "Now the sum is", num+num
>     sleep(1)
> 
> print "The sum is >/= 100!"
> 
>  -----
> 
> Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

You should tell what exactly your problem is ;)
But why so complicated? I would do the following construct:

---/---
>>> sum= 0
>>> sum_stop= 100
>>> while sum < 100:
...   num= input("Please enter the number: ")
...   sum= sum+num
...   print ("The sum is now "), sum
...   print "The sum is >/= 100!"
---/---

What is different here is, instead of the for-loop i use a while loop,
which seems more appropriate to me, because the programm should go
through the loop _until_ 100 is reached.

There are some other things that are a bit strange in your code. Maybe
you write a mail and explain what you wanted to do in each line.

Bye
Marco
-- 
Who will take care of the world after you're gone?

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sat Mar 30 07:51:53 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 04:51:53 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <2zRcLUAVjXp8EwVv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <uabbn7n094t76b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xpu1m43rq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> writes:
> > If we get bools can sets be far behind, and what about quaternions and
> > abelian groups?
> 
> I could see sets as part of the core language, if a couple of issues
> with respect to notation could be cleared up. I don't see the other
> two, but then, I don't really think that complex numbers should have
> been part of the core language either.

There's a PEP for sets that looks pretty good to me.  They look
more useful than bools.  They actually make some tasks easier.  
I haven't heard yet how bools make anything easier.

> It depends on what can be used by most applications. Sets and
> enums are generally useful. Complex, quaternians and so forth
> are application specific things.

quaternions can be implemented by a module like cmath, if useful.
Alternatively they can be represented as 3x3 matrices in Numeric.


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 04:24:16 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:24:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
References: <mailman.1015887440.17682.python-list@python.org> <c76ff6fc.0203111907.12122c8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91CF5F8D7A318duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote in 
news:c76ff6fc.0203111907.12122c8b at posting.google.com:

> There's even a story that the date of
> introduction in Sweden varied by parish!

Dont forget that Sweden even had a 30th February one year!

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From sasoft at gmx.de  Fri Mar 29 11:27:58 2002
From: sasoft at gmx.de (cruciatuz)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:27:58 +0000
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl>
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <20020329162758.GA1370@blackscarab>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:20:33AM +0000, Fused wrote:

> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
a programming game like realtimebattle, written entirely in python,
would be very cool.

have a look at:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/realtimebattle/

... if you're interested


2 things:

- other programmers (newbies like me) can learn functional programming
  in python while building own bots (movement algo's etc.)

- it doens't need to be a "war-game", it can also simulate bots in other
  situations (it would be great if there would be a map with different 
  things on it, and the bot has to move around, climb, swim and so on -
  but it has to be programmed before _how_ he should do that and which
  parts (item-classes) he should use.)

- every main part of the bot's body should be a python-object in a main
  bot object - these objects will be manipulated while the bot is trying
  to solve the map.

- the bot who is the fastest in solving an arena, will be the winner.



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Mar 29 13:17:23 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 10:17:23 -0800
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <477762c2.0203291017.1c02cf3b@posting.google.com>

I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl (Fused) wrote in message news:<3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl>...
> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone. 
> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).

To each his own, I guess, but IMO the best thing you can do at this
point is make something that *has* been done a million times before.
The fact that you want to do something unique generally implies
non-trivial, and so you'll be confronted with both coming up with a
good design and mastering the new language at the same time. It's a
bit masochistic and odds are you'll never finish it (which is a shame,
since whatever it was was a unique idea - save it for when you know
what you're doing and do it right!).

For a long time I would write a Tetris clone for each new language or
platform I learned. It's a simple game, has an easily-definable scope,
is interesting, and gives you a decent set of sub-problems to solve in
a bunch of different domains (this would be a lot of fun with Pygame,
btw), and once you get the most basic version done you can use it as a
stepping stone to more complex problems (local multiplayer, high
scores on a central server, network play, custom graphics sets, sound,
music, play versus computer, etc.).

Starting off with a large and unique project can be discouraging and
slow, but if you take the time to learn the language with a simpler
project you'll probably get it *and* the killer app project done in
less time and have more fun in the process.

-Dave


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 18:21:42 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:21:42 -0000
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
References: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8d946.4e7.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44 at posting.google.com>,
  Doug Farrell wrote:
> One thought that occurred to me was to create a Python daemon that
> has a thead pool, a pipe pool and all the CGI functionality built
> into classes that could be run by a thread.

The FastCGI system already does exactly this.

<advert>I have made an implementation for Python that you can get at:

  http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/
</advert>


From mats at laplaza.org  Thu Mar  7 15:46:37 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:46:37 GMT
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <mailman.1015496952.15967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c87cc23.24881687@news.laplaza.org>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:20 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
wrote:

:On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Simon Brunning wrote:
:
:> > From:	Geoff Gerrietts [SMTP:geoff at gerrietts.net]
:> > For the space of around three years, a child is immersed almost
:> > constantly, from waking to sleep, and even sometimes while asleep, in
:> > language. For those first three years, the child is almost completely
:> > incapable of making him or herself understood.
:
:Are you sure? My daughter makes herself understood by all available
:means. She built her own dictionary which we, parents, learned.
:What is interesting, she uses (internally) a hash table to
:convert from our language to her almost instantly...

I have to say, my daughter made herself well understood to the
listeners that matters long before speaking an intelligible word.

:Our observations tell us that children differ in their ways. E.g. some of
:them unthinkingly repeat lots of words and even sentences, while our child
:uses only what she understands. Some others do not talk at all and
:then at once speak clearly in sentences.
:
:I guess, adults can also be categorized by their approach in learning
:languages. And trial-and-error is, IMHO, also needed to learn computer
:languages. I can't imaging someone writing right from the start
:after studying docs and specs.

There have been several distinct learning styles identified, and
unfortunately, one of the shortcomings of schools is that it's
impossible to cater to all styles at once.  Even within these styles,
there are clear variations.

Some people only "learn" from reading detailed descriptions, but I
believe they're in a minority, and, proficiency still requires
application, and particularly trial-and-error learning.

:I do not remember who told me this, but it seems that students
:better learn from poorly constructed lectures than perfect ones.
:Because, they need to be _active_ in constructing their own system
:rather than _passively_ "eat" readymaid knowledge frames.

I don't know about learning more from poorly constructed lectures;
that doesn't jibe with my own experiences, although I see the point
being made. The active participation is certainly important, and there
are techniques that can be used in a classroom that promote such
participation - much harder with a book.  I do recall that lectures
that had demonstrations that didn't work (I had a Physics professor
who always had the experiments fail) were more instructive than the
demos that did work, because they did seem to make you think, whereas
success was just, "okay, that's what you said, so what?"

:So, a bad book (with errors, inconsistencies, etc) is not necessary bad
:for learning purposes (if it covers enough of a subject).

I think that's a stretch.  Bad books have stopped me almost dead on a
subject, unless I had a personal reason why I needed to push through.
I'm closer to conceding the point on lectures... a classroom situation
is by its' nature more interactive, a bad book can stop any
interaction.
Mats Wichmann



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar 27 18:19:03 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:19:03 +1100
Subject: velocity of python,jython,java,jit
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A23B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Xiao-Qin Xia [mailto:xx758 at cam.ac.uk]
> 
> If a python program can be translated into java bytecode by jython, 
> anybody compared the velocities when run with python, jython, 
> java, JIT (a 
> just-in-time compiler, JIT compiles the Java bytecode into 
> native machine 
> code on-the-fly)?

Try it, and tell us the results.

Tim Delaney



From parney at metacrawler.com  Tue Mar 26 11:20:24 2002
From: parney at metacrawler.com (Parney)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 08:20:24 -0800
Subject: I am Tarage your new ruler
References: <oIvn8.2201$kU2.261216@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <6d3fe7a3.0203260820.75eed533@posting.google.com>

Arsehole!

"Tarage" <ufr_tarage at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<oIvn8.2201$kU2.261216 at news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>...
> That's right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking,
> brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I'm taking over all of Usenet! There
> isn't a fucking thing you can do about it either! You're all a bunch
> of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don't
> like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet
> history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your
> knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self!
> 
> I AM TANAGE! LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!
> 
> My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time
> forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!
> 
> 
>    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****
>    **********************************************************
>    ****** HIS HIGHNESS Tarage LORD AND MASTER OF USENET *******
>    **********************************************************
>    *********** We are simple servants of his will ***********
> 
> 
> This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutely
> NO EXCEPTIONS! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the
> insignificant bugs that you all are!
> 
> I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages here because I,
> for the time being, am allowing it! Do you scumbags understand me!
> 
> THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF Tarage!
> 
> ALL HAIL TANAGE! LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!
> 
> 
> 
> Try excusing the fire's lower unit and Ahmad will cover you!  Tell 
> Mohammed it's upper explaining near a farmer.  She will dine 
> thin raindrops on the blank deep square, whilst Ahmed totally 
> fears them too.  The ticket against the think moon is the lemon that 
> converses easily.  
> 
> The tapes, pears, and carpenters are all wide and healthy.  Jeremy!  You'll 
> play films.  Little by little, I'll irrigate the teacher.  Otherwise the 
> frame in Mahammed's ball might order some urban buckets.  
> 
> He might join the weak cobbler and grasp it below its shower.  
> Plenty of pens will be noisy strange cars.  Abdellah cooks the 
> game at hers and sadly tastes.  Do not attack the sauces freely, 
> clean them locally.  Daoud's goldsmith shouts through our coconut after we 
> arrive with it.  All twigs stupidly scold the heavy lake.  
> 
> It's very full today, I'll believe biweekly or Ali will measure the 
> pitchers.  
> 
> If you'll creep Byron's kiosk with hens, it'll lovingly behave the 
> coffee.  Do not attempt rigidly while you're moulding among a 
> sweet pin.  Her bandage was closed, long, and kicks to the dorm.  He'll be 
> expecting beneath worthwhile Morris until his dog helps subtly.  To be 
> polite or dirty will like rural jackets to inadvertently hate.  They are 
> recollecting in back of the monument now, won't receive cats later.  
> She may happily tease dry and moves our dark, weird dryers towards a 
> cave.  Samuel, towards drapers rude and easy, pulls through it, 
> killing incredibly.  
> 
> What did Rose irritate the jug alongside the inner fig?  For 
> Beryl the bowl's rich, before me it's light, whereas inside you it's 
> talking new.  Alejandro, still jumping, answers almost partly, as the 
> exit pours under their cup.  
> 
> We depart them, then we dully change Ollie and Muhammad's cold 
> jar.  Both loving now, Karl and Mohammar seeked the short cellars 
> beneath bizarre desk.  No lean younger can promises lentils at 
> Atiqullah's empty envelope.  There, it fills a grocer too outer 
> without her quiet bathroom.  I was laughing caps to dull Salahuddin, who's 
> sowing behind the ulcer's evening.  
> 
> Where will we climb after Oscar cares the shallow bedroom's diet?  
> Do not call a floor!  You slowly reject towards Brahimi when the 
> glad enigmas dye before the clean barn.  As steadily as Satam 
> opens, you can walk the orange much more finitely.  Other filthy 
> open walnuts will look generally at codes.  Muhammad, have a 
> unique sticker.  You won't nibble it.  Just wandering around a 
> boat behind the hallway is too brave for Pilar to judge it.  
> It can smell once, solve seemingly, then dream in the onion alongside the 
> camp.  My elder disk won't improve before I comb it.  No ugly 
> wet plates will finally recommend the eggs.  He might live undoubtably if 
> Muhammad's paper isn't sharp.  
> 
> If the raw elbows can burn nearly, the humble poultice may learn more 
> colleges.  Who wastes annually, when Eddie sows the abysmal powder 
> before the obelisk?  A lot of cosmetic bushs lift Abbas, and they 
> weekly irrigate Bert too.  Almost no sticky shirts are stupid and other 
> tired doses are solid, but will Moustapha grasp that?  Occasionally, go 
> mould a ointment!  The proud hat rarely pulls Mustapha, it believes 
> Ramsi instead.  
> 
> Some potters laugh, creep, and dine.  Others quickly measure.  Until 
> Osama cares the painters partially, Chuck won't like any smart 
> ladders.  If you will cook Jadallah's signal without trees, it will 
> unbelievably look the weaver.  They are climbing at pretty, around 
> bitter, behind fresh sauces.  She might absolutely change beneath 
> bad hollow halls.  Guido lives, then Hassan weakly rejects a 
> cheap puddle among Mikie's star.  She wants to wander clever 
> carrots within Osama's mirror.  Almost no distant yogis alongside the 
> young ocean were seeking inside the good castle.  Many strong 
> butcher or highway, and she'll simply expect everybody.  She'd rather 
> tease wickedly than open with Sheri's poor ache.  I was calling to 
> behave you some of my blunt kettles.  Hardly any angry lazy spoons 
> badly kick as the old gardners talk.  You won't taste me dreaming 
> within your lost river.  Better kill cards now or Wednesday will 
> weekly depart them towards you.


From bfisseni at gmx.de  Fri Mar  1 15:04:46 2002
From: bfisseni at gmx.de (Bernhard Fisseni)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 20:04:46 GMT
Subject: SAX-Parser entity
References: <mailman.1014987964.15496.python-list@python.org> <a5od8a$gc$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <slrna7vnrs.16l.bfisseni@pinguin.ikp.uni-bonn.de>

Hi, Fabian,
> 
> Ahh, utf-16 sounds good.
> Thanks, I have at least one solution:
> Reading the xml-file into a buffer and convert it to utf-16.
> minidom is then able to parse the whole thing and saves the strings in
> unicode, which is fine again.
> 
> I do not understand the part with "If your parser supports...". As it seems
> to me, the minidom default parser does not support ISO 8859/1 and even
> unicode makes problems only.
had you declared <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> ??

> I didn't know, you can reprogram the parser so easily.
When I wrote a programme using SAX, I finally used
xml.sax.saxutils.escape()

def characters(self, content):
    self._out.write(saxutils.escape(content, self.transhash))

where content means the characters and self.transhash looked like:

transhash = { u'\u00c4' : '&Auml;',
              u'\u00c6' : '&AElig;',
	    }

I suppose, this is not the most elegant way to do it, but it works.

Regards,
Bernhard

> Harvey Thomas <hst at empolis.co.uk> wrote:
>> I would guess that your document is in ISO 8859/1 (otherwise known as
>> latin-1). XML parsers must be able to parse utf-8 and utf-16 and may
>> support other encodings. If your parser supports latin-1 then modify the
>> XML declaration. Otherwise use the codecs module.
> 
>>> Problem:
>>> I try to use the minidom XML-Parser to parse my little file 
>>> in order to generate HTML Code.
>>> Being german, I really like to use Umlauts but minidom does not.
>>> ...
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/handler.py", 
>>> line 38, in fatalError
>>>     raise exception
>>> xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: <unknown>:29:19: not  well-formed
>>> 
>>> where Character 19 in Row 29 is the occurence of an ?.


-- 
Bernhard Fisseni
Studi:    Steinweg 32  --  53121 Bonn-Endenich, D  --  +49-228-6203949
zu hause: Ubierstrasse 8  --  53498 Bad Breisig, D  --  +49-2633-96333


From shredwheat at attbi.com  Thu Mar  7 23:17:55 2002
From: shredwheat at attbi.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:17:55 GMT
Subject: ANN: Python User Groups page at python.org
References: <2AWh8.478$eT3.149538@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3C883D30.1030905@attbi.com>

Kevin Altis wrote:
> Python User Groups now have their own page on the Python web site:
> 
> http://www.python.org/UserGroups.html

sadly nothing ever in the southern california area. anyone in OC or LA 
who enjoys this crazy python?






From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 15:34:02 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 21:34:02 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <m3pu2orps5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu) writes:

> I've been following this discussion with quite some interest, but I do not
> have the background to delimit the scope of various concepts.  Is there a
> gentle introduction to a unicode-newbie?

There are a number of introductions to Unicode; you may want to search
www.unicode.org, e.g.

http://www.unicode.org/unicode/standard/WhatIsUnicode.html

> >IMO, the Python source code parser should never see any text data[1]
> >that is not UTF-8 encoded.  
> 
> Presumably this discussion only concerns unicode strings - I don't think
> want to lose the ability to read in arbitrary binary data as a raw string.

First and foremost, the discussion is only about source code. A byte
string should certainly be able to store arbitrary bytes. Under
Stephen's proposal, it would indeed not be possible anymore to put
arbitrary binary data into source code.

> >[1]  Ie, Python language or character text.  It might be convenient to
> >have an octet-string primitive data type, in which you could put
> >EUC-encoded Japanese or Java byte codes.  
> 
> What's the difference between this and a raw string (a byte sequence) that
> you can translate into any other encoding?

Arbitrary binary data uses don't have a character set. If they are
character data, they should be stored as a character string (which, in
Python, is a Unicode string).

Regards,
Martin


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Mon Mar  4 19:58:32 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:58:32 +0100
Subject: Python standards
In-Reply-To: <a613h8$e7n$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <Z7Ug8.52655$Dh.5203103@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a613h8$e7n$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020305005831.GB8780@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 04/03/02 ? 16:29, Aahz Maruch ?crivit:
> CSJedi <a at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Can someone tell me if Python has proprietary or consensus standards such as
> >ANSI?
> 
> Our standard is Guido.
 
That's the short version of the story :)

And rereading my previous post, including speling and grammmar erors, I
should probably do something else at this time of day.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 1.4 ?C      Wind: 0.7 m/s



From jcollins at boulder.net  Fri Mar 29 14:55:19 2002
From: jcollins at boulder.net (Jeffery D. Collins)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:55:19 -0700
Subject: Slice objects. How to apply them to strings?
References: <upl4auo0ll9o99skacavmaf9cnnbh2qae4@4ax.com> <04g9au4kn4dtg92584l12n0ut001c7rb9m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C6A7.30804@boulder.net>

IIRC, slice objects are intended for use with Numeric arrays.  You might
try using the __getslice__() method for slicing instead.


Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:

> Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm using Python 2.1 here but this still seems to apply on 2.2
>>
>>I have a little string-based class which needs to emulate strings for
>>most things. This includes slicing.
>>
>>So I need a __getitem__ magic method. 
>>
>>This will get passed a slice object.
>>
>>How am I supposed to translate this into a string slice? 
>>
>>This seems to be the tidiest I can come up with and it's a mess:
>>
>>def __getitem__(self, item):
>>   if item.step:
>>       return self.s[item.start: item.stop: item.step]
>>   if item.start:
>>       return self.s[item.start: item.stop]
>>   return self.s[item.stop]
>>
>>If 'item' is a slice object, shouldn't I just be able to say:
>>
>>   self.s[item]
>>?
>>
>>Wouldn't this be really sensible?
>>
>>What's worse, is that I can't even do this:
>>
>>import operator
>>operator.getitem(self.s, item)
>>
>>Somebody please tell me I'm being dim and I've missed something. How
>>do you apply a slice object to a sequence?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
> 
> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
> 
> Thanks.
> --
> Dale Strickland-Clark
> Riverhall Systems Ltd
> 



-- 
Jeffery Collins (http://www.boulder.net/~jcollins)




From torstenson at no-spam.oti-hsv.com  Mon Mar  4 12:56:36 2002
From: torstenson at no-spam.oti-hsv.com (Eric Torstenson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:56:36 -0600
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
References: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <7vOg8.10828$hK4.4034599@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

OK, imported __builtin__ and used __builtin__.open(blah, blah) and got the
same result, so I am guessing that is not a matter of function hiding, but
some other error that I am just being blind to.

The file name is valid and was built using the os.path.join function. The
path exists, but the file does not (it shouldn't need to exist ahead of time
since it is a write). I have tried all manner of write flags (w, wb, wb+),
all of which yield same results.

eric

"Eric Torstenson" <torstenson at no-spam.oti-hsv.com> wrote in message
news:%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> This is really frustrating for me, and was hoping someone could point me
in
> the right direction.
>
> I have a class that I use to generate a log. It handles opens, closes and
> logging to the file.
>
> I have another class which does a lot of other stuff, and occassionally
> writes messages to the log.
>
> The program has worked fine, but when after adding a couple of details
(none
> of which affected the log), I now get:
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "pLog.py", line 10, in __init__
>         self.logInit(sFilename)
>       File "pLog.py", line 14, in logInit
>         self.fLog=open(filename, mode='w')
>     IOError: invalid argument: w
>
> I have read that you can hide built ins by doing:
>     from some_file import *
> if some_file an instance of open() exists in the *
>
> but I don't have anything like that in my code.
>
> The weirder thing, is that I can use the log in other scripts. I have even
> copied the imports to the test script, and it continues to run without
> error.
>
> Does anyone know how to determine what is hiding the builting open()
routine
> (file() does the same), or how to explicitly call the builtin.open()
> command? I had trouble with this at the very beginning (I'm still very new
> to python), but I usually was able to get it worked out.
>
> thanks,
>
> eric
>
>
>





From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar  5 19:09:22 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 01:09:22 +0100
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015366692.14427.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c85612b$1_3@news.bluewin.ch>

>
> Interesting observation.  But actually, we very much chose those forms to
> "underline" not to "hide" the fact that numbers are first-class objects in
> Smalltalk (as they are also in Python).

Yup that's the current Smalltalk cult <wink>.
But it is not the impression I had reading the Alan Key's
paper about the history of Smalltalk.
There were all the aspects together: everything as an object
as hard-core CS abstraction (like eval and lists and function
invokation in lisp), as a natural mapping from the real word
in the computer world, and the english-like aspect.

My question is about newbies (kids in Alan Key's case),
as I said I cannot answer myself, and it seems
you can't either <wink>.

regards, Samuele Pedroni.




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Mar 24 16:51:38 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 13:51:38 -0800
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1016945436.31630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203241351.4d93d9d5@posting.google.com>

Tripp Scott <tripps81 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016945436.31630.python-list at python.org>...
> can i generate this list:
> 
>   [1, 1.1, 2, 2.1, 3, 3.1]
> 
> with a list comprehension in a form of this:
> 
>   [SOMETHING for x in 1,2,3]
> 
> and without using side effects like this?
> 
>   result=[]
>   [(result.append(x), result.append(x+1.1)) for x in 1,2,3]
> 
> because the latter case is not very elegant to me.
> 
> t

This doesn't match exactly what you asked for, but may match what you meant 
to ask for, and certainly it clearly states what is happening:

>>> [i + delta for i in 1, 2, 3 for delta in 0, 0.1]
[1, 1.1000000000000001, 2, 2.1000000000000001, 3, 3.1000000000000001]

... and you may in fact have meant to ask for this:

>>> [i + delta for i in 1, 2, 3 for delta in 0.0, 0.1]
[1.0, 1.1000000000000001, 2.0, 2.1000000000000001, 3.0, 3.1000000000000001]


From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Wed Mar 20 11:33:47 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:33:47 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com> <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3C984F44.1090001@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <LR2m8.6843$Gf.291005@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <3C984F44.1090001 at pobox.com>, Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> May I ask you what the scal for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
> related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
> Python?

Python can scale to very large sites.

Yahoo! email and Yahoo! maps are written in Python.  Substantial parts
of Google are done in Python, though they also have a lot of C back there.

(MySQL is used by some large sites that don't need ACID properties but
do need a fast data store--e.g. slashdot.org)

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 31 07:41:05 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:41:05 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <uachupma3sk1a2@news.supernews.com> <m3663dnisp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <uae0kpptc77f4f@news.supernews.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3663dnisp.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> writes:
>
> > I make it optimistically 180 functions. Given the reasonably
> > high quality of the standard library, "return None" almost
> > certainly means that the function does not have a return value,
> > not that the return value should be treated as False.
>
> Notice a subtlety, though: In a high-quality library, if the
> *function* has no return value, the return statement should be just
> "return". I'd always assume that the function would normally return an
> object, and that "return None" indicates that no object is available
> in this case. A quick glance shows that this indeed seems to be the
> case in the majority of the cases.

Good point. In that case, the result still isn't logically a boolean -
it's at least "True", "False" or "Huh?"

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Mar 19 04:58:59 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:58:59 +1000 (est)
Subject: bug reporting
In-Reply-To: <a72nf6.3vs5lk7.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0203191955210.40-100000@tenring>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Sheila King wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:41:22 -0500, "Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com>
> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <mailman.1016412590.22637.python-list at python.org>:

{...}

> report after all. It may end up to be a problem in my own code.  :/

Bug reports can be closed ;-)  Though I'm not sure that SF actually allows
anyone other than project developers to do so, a followup that explains
that it should be closed with no further action would result in closure
with minimum wastage of effort.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  8 16:39:56 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 21:39:56 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a69lml$b2v$0@216.39.172.122> <j84i8.2776$Ni.254846@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a6bb3c$c5l$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:45:35 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:a69lml$b2v$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:54:29 +1300, Greg Ewing
><greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>> >Even something like q'delim' doesn't allow you to
>> >easily use completely arbitrary text, because you
>> >still have to pick *some* string that doesn't occur
>> >in the text. Although you don't have to modify the
>> >text, you do have to inspect it in order to choose
>> >a suitable delimiter.
>
>> Unless you choose one with vanishingly small probability
>> of being included, like a generated guid.
>
>This was Guido's intention when he choose triple quotes and I think he
>did excellently well.  I don't believe I had even seen """ and quite
>possibly not ''' ever before learning Python.  I do know that I found
>""" to be quite jarring, as if I have never seen it before.
>
Of course, now that Python sources abound, the probability of
encountering triple quotes is no longer vanishingly small, so
what will Guido do next, if he finds a motivation to do at the next
level what he did with triple quotes?

>> A smart editor could do this for you.
>
>A smart editor could also scan for triple quotes in pasted text and
>select one that was not found as the enclosing quotes and do the octal
>quoting fixup if both were.
>
True, but on second thought, actually more likely you'd use a separate
utility to generate a guid, since it has to go look for nics etc, and
just paste it in the editor. VC++ comes with such a utility.

My thought of pasting arbitrary binary octets in a quoted context actually
potentially involves multiple encodings, though: The encoding of the source,
the encoding used by the editor capturing and displaying the source, the
encoding used by the editor for the python source, the encoding for its
display, the encoding used for python internal representation, and the
encoding used for python interactive display, to name a few. (I'd guess MvL
has thought more deeply on that than I ;-)

The thing that occurs to me is that pasting into a raw-string context might
involve a contradiction, even with current Python r'strings':

Suppose what you pasted contained a single ^G ('\x07'), what would happen
when it came time to render it on the screen? You couldn't do the normal escapes (e.g. \x07),
because in the context of r'...' that would be four characters, not one.
So how would '\x07' (single character)  be represented if it were part of pasted text?

I guess I ought to try eval("r'\x07'") and see what happens ;-)

 >>> eval("r'\x07'")
 '\x07'
 >>> list(eval("r'\x07'"))
 ['\x07']
 >>> list("r'\x07'")
 ['r', "'", '\x07', "'"]
 >>> list(r'\x07')
 ['\\', 'x', '0', '7']

Is that correct? Shouldn't the expression r'\x07' return 4 characters
as it does if you list them with list(r'\x07')?

I.e., shouldn't list(eval("r'\x07'")) return the same as list(r'\x07'),
and shouldn't eval("r'\x07'") raise an illegal-representation (bad
raw-string syntax) exception?

Would someone explain this:

 >>> eval("list(r'\x07')")
 ['\x07']
 >>> list(r'\x07')
 ['\\', 'x', '0', '7']

(Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32)

also:
 Python 1.5.2 (#1, May 28 2000, 18:04:10)  [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs
 - on linux2
 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
 >>> eval("list(r'\x07')")
 ['\007']
 >>> list(r'\x07')
 ['\\', 'x', '0', '7']       

Pretty consistent. What's the difference between direct interactive eval and programmed eval? 
(I guess we have a new subject ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter






From newsfroups at jerf.org  Tue Mar  5 19:00:16 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:00:16 GMT
Subject: Newbie Python+XML Question
References: <3C85597D.D0DD25FE@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C855C28.5080506@jerf.org>

Jeff Layton wrote:


> class XmlHandler(saxutils.DefultHandler):

Try changing that to use saxutils.DefaultHandler , with the "a" in the 
second syllable of "Def*a*ult".



From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Sun Mar 31 02:32:19 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:19 -0800
Subject: ActivePython 2.2 released!
References: <mailman.1017384524.14832.python-list@python.org> <a81lb4$cqs$1@rex.ip-plus.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6BB83.E7E75099@ActiveState.com>

> For 2.1.2: Will there be an update option in the installer? I've installed
> many external Python modules, which I do not want to reinstall when updating
> from 2.1.1 to 2.1.2, if somehow possible.

Hmm.  I'll have to check, but I think that you should be able to
uninstall 2.1, install 2.1.2 at the same location, and things should
"just work".

--david ascher



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 23 12:44:59 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 12:44:59 -0500
Subject: reload() problems (was Re: mutlifile inheritance problem simplified)
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <3C9C0B45.E3C51B0C@hotmail.com> <a7hap8$55f$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9CAFD2.13FE372D@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7ieur$1fn$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3C9CAFD2.13FE372D at hotmail.com>,
Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I'm wondering whether or not this is a bug, which I would report, or
>whether I'm doing something incorrectly.  I can accept that others
>don't use reload much, but it seems that identifying bugs in the
>language is good for the language, or identifying known errors in my
>usage is good for me.

No argument here; that's a good attitude.  The problem is that reload()
interacts with Python namespaces in peculiar ways (as you're
discovering), and even if something isn't a bug, it's quite likely to
not function as you'd desire.  (I've seen enough about reload() to say
this with confidence.)

>For myself, I use reload all the time.  Here's an example.  For my
>current task, I'm analysing large data sets (~.01-30 GB), never doing
>the same analysis twice.  This involves many steps, and a complete
>analysis takes alot of time about 20 minutes - 50+ hours.  Most of this
>is done using old classes that I've written in different files and many
>of these inherit from base classes in other files.
>
>The goal is to write an analysis script and let it run, but, of course,
>it rarely works straight away.  I run stuff from IDLE.  If the analysis
>bombs, I can catch the exception and pickup where I left off without
>losing what I've already done:  IDLE just waits for me to notice the
>exception, then using reload, I can modify the classes that caused the
>problem, even a base class that I wrote written 4 years ago and is ten
>layers deep in an inheritance tree, or using numbered DLLs I can even
>modify a C extension on the fly, all without losing anything.  Then
>just rerun, picking up where I left off.  This is great, and I don't
>want to give it up.  I can't see a reanable way to restart python every
>time I have an error.
>
>Anyway, I know this hasn't revived your interest in reload.  I expect
>it's use is very task specific.  I've found it extremely useful.

Seems to me that it would be better/safer to change your architecture so
that you can save checkpoints of intermediate processing.  I mean, what
if your machine just dies (say, power supply failure or a bad disk); do
you really want to lose more than two days of work?  I bet that if you
do this, you'll find many ways of improving your architecture by
streamlining and packaging the information flow.  This also would allow
other opportunities for modifying the processing in the middle of a run
(or restarting a run), quite possibly cutting out many hours of
processing time.

I've changed the Subject: of this thread so that if someone is
interested in reload() zie can find it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From marknenadov at winningteam.com  Fri Mar 29 17:39:50 2002
From: marknenadov at winningteam.com (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:39:50 -0500
Subject: GUI programming
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20020329.173950.1469262009.25190@d57-36-119.wido3.on.cogeco.ca>

In article <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list at python.org>, "Umesh
Persad" <upersad at tstt.net.tt> wrote:

> ------------------  I wanted to have a user
> interface where I can draw the game board as well as take in text input
> below the board with some text felds and buttons. I see there are many
> GUI toolkits available. I am wondering which one should I use (tkinter,
> wxpython?) that will be simple enough to get me up and running qiuckly.
> Also are there any examples that I can look at?

Umesh,
I would personally recommend wxPython. I believe that wxPython is more
modern and feature rich. It also doesn't depend on another scripting
langauge (TCL).

Nevertheless, there are some advantages to TkInter. One of them is the
fact that it is easier to learn and that it comes with pretty much every
distribution of Python.

wxPython comes with a nice demo program that demonstrates almost 
everything you can do with wxPython. Looking at the source of that 
program was probably the most valuable "documentation" available.

I hope that helps you,
~Mark  Nenadov (www.freelance-developer.com)


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 20:54:11 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:54:11 +0000
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work                    Sincerly, F
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com> <slrna92f39.150k.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <slrna92l23.10i.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 15 Mar 2002 01:12:23 GMT, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:
>Oscar wrote in comp.lang.python:
>> I have added 
>> 
>> def joinsplit = (join(split(lines, '"'), ' '))
>>         return joinsplit
>
>No wonder this doesn't work, as you've apparently haven't made very
>much effort to understand what you're doing here.
>
>Sorry to be so blunt, but you can't write software just by guessing
>about the syntax. 

Really? I do some of the time, when I don't remember it and can't be 
bothered to look in the manual.

>If you want to learn programming in Python, then go
>to http://www.python.org/ and head to the newbie page there.
>
>If you don't want to learn programming, perhaps because it's too much
>effort, then the only option is to find somebody to do it for you. 

The surprising thing is, the rest of his defs are OK.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 04:45:04 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 04:45:04 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <a8406g$2hg$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Guido]
>>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>>        as such.

[Ralph Corderoy]
> Unlike Tim to produce such a poor reason.  Has he been paraphrased a
> little too much?

Not in Guido's eyes <wink>.  We don't need 3 equivalent ways to turn an
arbitrary expression into a bool ("bool(x)" same-as "not not (x)" same-as
"truth(x)").  *Especially* if str(bool) and repr(bool) produce 'True' and
'False', people have a legitimate need to make an arbitrary true/false
expression produce 0 and 1 too, if only to preserve 0/1-based true/false
output.  operator.truth() has always been the best way to do exactly that.
Alternatives like "(boolexpr) + 0" and "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and "(0,
1)[boolexpr]" reek in comparison.




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 06:57:17 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:57:17 +0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <3C7F6765.94A82394 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen
<peter at engcorp.com> writes
.....
>
>I'm pretty sure the last time I checked the PROGRA~1 convention still
>worked on WinNT.  Are you sure this doesn't work on Win2K as well?
>They're supposed to be the same thing, no?
>
>-Peter
I'm sure it does and I guess that Program Files will always match as
it's often the first. On the other hand working with a path name
obtained from an execution path there's no guarantee I can always do the
correct conversion by assuming ~1, some end up as ~2 etc.

Is there a proper way to get the 8.3 name? 
-- 
Robin Becker


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 12:01:16 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:01:16 +0000
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <a6lknu$8je$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <p30t8uoor948elt8n2huqdk4qlvkq880fn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6m4t1$pq7$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Martin Kaufmann wrote:

> 
> How do you glue C and Python together? Do you use any of the wrappers
> (SWIG, weave etc.) or do you do it the hard way? I just didn't
> understand the whole story about these PyObjects.
> 
>>One general comment: The performance killer in many applications like
>>this is doing the innermost loop in the interpreted language (Python,
>>Matlab, etc).??If?you?can?recast?your?algorithm?as?operations?on
>>arrays rather than individual numbers, and your language does the
>>implicit loops over the elements efficiently, you typically get 10x or
>>so improvements in speed.
> 
> Do you mean the array calculation of NumPy?

Yes. A quick example (trivially easy, but shows the point):
In [21]: x
Out[21]: array([ 0.        ,  0.34906585,  0.6981317 ,  1.04719755,  
1.3962634 ,  1.74532925,
             2.0943951 ,  2.44346095,  2.7925268 ,  3.14159265])

In [22]: sx = zeros(len(x),'f')

# This will be very slow
In [23]: for i in range(len(x)):
   ....:   sx[i] = sin(x[i])
   ....:

# This is very fast: Numeric applies the sin() operation to the whole 
# x array, but the looping is done in C instead of python.
In [24]: sin x
-------> sin (x)
Out[24]: array([  0.00000000e+00,   3.42020143e-01,   6.42787610e-01,   
8.66025404e-01,
              9.84807753e-01,   9.84807753e-01,   8.66025404e-01,   
6.42787610e-01,
              3.42020143e-01,   1.22460635e-16])

# You can see that the result is identical:
In [25]: sx
Out[25]: array([  0.00000000e+00,   3.42020154e-01,   6.42787635e-01,   
8.66025388e-01,
              9.84807730e-01,   9.84807730e-01,   8.66025388e-01,   
6.42787635e-01,
              3.42020154e-01,   1.22460635e-16],'f')


So again, the morale is: at all costs avoid looping in python in 
performance-critical parts of the code, once you've reached the optimization 
stage. In those parts, get creative: weave.blitz, weave.inline, 
weave.ext_tools, SWIG & friends (SILOON, boost, etc) in order of increasing 
complexity.

Cheers,

f


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 19:50:30 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:50:30 -0500
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102138400.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <3C8BFF56.EC2E6800@engcorp.com>

Pearu Peterson wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to disable all assert statements inside a module,
> and without calling python with -O switch?
> 
> Why? I have developed a module using lots of assert statements (yes,
> they are all relevant). Now when it is finished, I found that
> running python with -O switch the speed up is approximately 4 times. I
> assume that this is due to disabled assert statements. I don't want to
> remove all these assert statements because I might extend this module in
> future when they will be handy again for debugging.

You might look into the Test-Driven Development approach espoused
by Extreme Programming (XP) proponents.  Using a proper set of 
unit tests is probably going to be a better approach than scattering 
asserts throughout your code like that, and you would benefit from 
higher performance even without -O, an improved design, and less
need to debug at that level when you extend the module.

Just a thought, but I've never seen code that had so many relevant assert
statements that the program slowed to a quarter normal speed because of
them.

-Peter


From dradul at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 17:09:53 2002
From: dradul at yahoo.com (P. Alejandro Lopez-Valencia)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:09:53 -0500
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <m3d6y41e74.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a70k31$hoi6m$1@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> escribi? en el mensaje
news:m3d6y41e74.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Paul F. Dubois" <dubois at users.sourceforge.net> writes:
>
> > I am trying to get Python 2.2 to compile on HP-UX B.10.20. I get a set
of
> > missing externals with names PyThread_something. I need threads so I
don't
> > want to turn them off. Is there a package I need to install first? Or
some
> > other hint about what to do?
>
> If you need threads on HP-UX 10, you may need to write your own thread
> package first :-(
>
> Provide more info: what compiler (bundled - nah, can't be, unbundled,
> gcc?); what symbols are missing, etc.
>
> In any case, the common understanding is that Python does not really
> support threads on HP-UX, and probably never will unless some HP-UX
> user who understands all the issues provides patches.
>

Hmmm.... This is a wild shot, but you might want to try out the GNU pth
library. If you are lucky, it may work as a wrapper to the OS threads and
python may find it usable.




From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sat Mar  2 07:30:42 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 12:30:42 GMT
Subject: ANN: experimental patch to allow importing from file-like objects
References: <3c7fcbe6.7419921@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91C54C828E2A8gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.213>

Gerson Kurz wrote:

> Motivation: Write a customized import that reads data from encrypted
> files. Both execfile() and exec() are limited, if only that that they
> don't mimic the import syntax. 
> 
> Problem: imp.load_module does expect a file object, but you can only
> pass "real" files, not file-like objects. The internal C-code expects
> native FILE* stuff.
> 
> Solution: An experimental patch to the python22.dll that makes this
> possible. Using file-like objects for import opens up a whole new set
> of possibilities, for example you could fetch the code at runtime from
> a database or a socket. 
 
Most people doing something like this don't use imp.load_module.

First you need a code object for the module. If it's source:

  co = compile(open(srcfile, 'r').read()+'\n', srcfile, 'exec')

If it's already compiled (and still fresh etc.)

  stuff = open(bytecodefile, 'rb').read()
  co = marshal.loads(stuff[8:])

Then you need a module object

  mod = imp.new_module(nm)

(You need to set up mod.__file__, mod.__name__ etc. here).
And finally

  sys.modules[fqname] = mod
  exec co in mod.__dict__

This is not to say that I'm against your patch (didn't look 
at it), just that there's another way around the problem.

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/


From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  8 12:40:30 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:40:30 -0600
Subject: vfork hangs
In-Reply-To: <efee2c2a.0203062253.3cc01a7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEPGDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Kip Macy wrote:
> I'm having problems with my python application hanging in vfork with
> the child never completing the exec. It is hard for me to track it
> down just by putting a break on vfork because the code is
> multi-threaded, several thousand lines long, and doesn't hit this
> right away. I saw it suggested that system is not thread safe on
> solaris (the platform I'm using). The other thing of note is that a
> SIGCLD is always received promptly before the vfork hang.

According to the man page, system() is not thread-safe on Solaris.
It says, "MT-Level: Unsafe".  The vfork(2) man page says, "The vfork()
function is unsafe in multithreaded applications."

Not sure what makes it unsafe, but I wouldn't spend any more time
fighting it.

I believe a thread-safe system() can be implemented in Python, at the
cost of some performance.  If you go this way, I think you'll want to
use os.fork1() instead of os.fork().

Let us know how this works out for you.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From peter.schwalm at epost.de  Tue Mar 12 20:18:59 2002
From: peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 17:18:59 -0800
Subject: Redirecting output in Windows NT
References: <96e9dee5.0203120044.33a1e19c@posting.google.com> <3C8DC473.2070809@skippinet.com.au> <a6lenv$i2s$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <5cf809e9.0203121718.6d999426@posting.google.com>

> >It is a bug in the NT command prompt.  Works OK in Win2k.  I believe 
> >there is a FAQ on it too.
> >
You state that *output* redirection works OK in Win2k. I could verify
that, but unfortunately it's not true for the redirection of *input*.
If I want to redirect input, I still have to use the form

    python myprog.py <inputfile

instead of the simpler

    myprog <inputfile

Regards
Peter


From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Thu Mar 28 13:09:13 2002
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:09:13 +0100
Subject: optional pass? (was Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and 
 links (Mar 26))
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA35C49.31397789@ndh.net>

phil hunt wrote:
> And Guido's statement supports my suggestion that pass be made 
> optional in Python. Consider, when someone is designing a class, 
> one could write an outline like this:
> 
> class BaseClass:
> 
> class MyClass(BaseClass):
>    def __init__(self):
>    def method1(self, a, b, c):
>    def method2(self, d, e):
>    def method3(self, f):
> 
> It is perfectly clear what this means.

I know that there may be reasons to write such code. What I like
about pass is that it reminds me to make it explicit if I omit an
implementation of e. g. a method.

> But unfortunately, as Python
> stands today, it is syntactically invalid, one would have to say:
> 
> class BaseClass:
>    pass
> 
> class MyClass(BaseClass):
>    def __init__(self):
>       pass
>    def method1(self, a, b, c):
>       pass
>    def method2(self, d, e):
>       pass
>    def method3(self, f):
>       pass

What about

class BaseClass: pass

class MyClass(BaseClass):
   def __init__(self): pass
   def method1(self, a, b, c): pass
   def method2(self, d, e): pass
   def method3(self, f): pass

IMHO, that looks almost as well as your version, and makes the absence
of additional code seem rather intentional, not accidental.

If I remember correctly, I seldom use that many pass's, so I don't
bother whether I have to write them.

> And then, when you begin to flesh out your code, you would have to
> get rid of the extraneous passes you didn't want to add (assuming
> you are like me) in the first place. So the with-pass version
> requires more effort, and is more verbose, for no good reason.

I value the explicitness of pass over having to write or delete a bit
less.

Stefan


From stefan.heimann at web.de  Sun Mar  3 16:27:30 2002
From: stefan.heimann at web.de (Stefan Heimann)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 21:27:30 GMT
Subject: Problems with print str,
References: <slrna8517i.2cm.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer> <m3adtpwevf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrna8559v.2cm.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>

Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote::

> Stefan Heimann <stefan.heimann at web.de> writes:
> 
>> Any help would be great!
> 
> I suggest to use raw_input for this specific application.

Works great!

Thanks, Stefan


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 29 14:59:17 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 19:59:17 GMT
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
References: <3CA4C09B.D9D15464@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <a82h2l$qk5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:29:31 -0500, Jeff Layton <laytonjb at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>   I'm still learning Python and I'm playing around with some
>code that creates a class. I've mastered that stage already.
>However, what I want to do is create multiple instances of
>the class and put them into a list.
>   If the class is called Bob, then I want to do something like,
>
>
>a = []
>a[0] = Bob('input1')
>
>
>and so on. Everytime I try something like this I get the following
>error message:
>
>
>a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
>IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>
Because there is no a[0] yet if a is []
>
>   I also tried it this way,
>
>
>a = []
>a.append = Bob('localhost')
>
That much should work. Can you copy and paste an actual interactive snippet? E.g.,

 >>> class Bob:
 ...     def __init__(self,v):
 ...         self.v = v
 ...     def show(self):
 ...         print 'This is a Bob instance with v = %s' % self.v
 ...
 >>> a = []
 >>> a.append(Bob('localhost'))
 >>> a
 [<__main__.Bob instance at 0x007CF4A0>]
 >>> a[0]
 <__main__.Bob instance at 0x007CF4A0>
 >>> a[0].show()
 This is a Bob instance with v = localhost

>
>and I get the error message:
>
>
>a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
>IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>
a must have still been [], but who can tell from what you posted?

>   Can anyone shed some light into how I do this? Or is
>there a better way?
>
Post a log of minimal failing code sufficient for anyone
to duplicate your problem.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 07:06:22 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:06:22 +0000
Subject: C/C++ to Python translater
References: <5e8bd451.0203011049.5d12d3a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5ojit$agq$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

kevin parks wrote:

> Is there a translator to automatically port (rewrite) code snippets
> from C or C++ to Python? I have some old C code that i have been
> porting by hand (well by head really) and i was wondering if there
> were any translation utilities that i could try. I imagine that this
> would be a monster AI undertaking, Btu with Python's powerful built-in
> types i am guessing c --> Python is easier than the opposite.

Yes, almost. It doesn't translate it, but you can embed the C/C++ in your 
python source code:

http://www.scipy.org/site_content/weave

Besides, there's various systems for wrapping complete libraries as modules 
with minimal effort. google(swig,sip,boost.python,siloon) will help.

cheers,

f.


From ark at research.att.com  Sat Mar 30 10:58:40 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 10:58:40 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
	<200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <yu99663exd1r.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

David>     void f(int const&);
David>     f(false); // error!

For the sake of nitpicking correctness, I cannot help but point out
that there is nothing wrong with the call of f(false) above unless you
drop the "const" from f's parameter type.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:53 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:31:53 GMT
Subject: more functional programming
References: <3C83EE39.B3665205@gol.ge>
Message-ID: <ZQQg8.36241$yL2.2942594@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

> PS. Is a genetic programming library written in/for Python
available?

Have you searched Google for 'python genetic programming'?

TJR





From phil.edwards at mistral.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 12:09:01 2002
From: phil.edwards at mistral.co.uk (Phil Edwards)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:09:01 +0000
Subject: Python, CGI and PGP
References: <3c9fbf57@peer1.news.newnet.co.uk> <a7p6pj$4mp$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <3ca0b0f9@peer1.news.newnet.co.uk>

Jim Dennis wrote:

> 
>  How are you feeding "sometext.txt" into the process in your CGI
>  script?  Why now show us the actual fragment of code that you're
>  attempting to use?
> 
>  When it comes to environmental issues (in programming) it's generally
>  pretty easy to replace a target program with a wrapper script like
>  so:
> 
>  mv $ORIGINAL_BINARY $ORGINAL_BINARY.wrapped
> cat > $ORIGINAL_BINARY <<WRAPPER_SCRIPT
> #!/bin/sh
> printenv > /tmp/$(basename $0).$$
> . /some/where/$(basename $0).env
> exec $0.wrapped "$@"
> WRAPPER_SCRIPT
> chmod +x $ORIGINAL_BINARY
> 
>  ... this shell code is relatively terse (as well as concise) so
>  I'll highlight some of it's finer points in english.
>

Thanks, Jim, this is definitely one for the "little black book". When I see 
things like this, I'm reminded just why I love UNIX so much...
 
> 
>  If you are reasonably persistent and a little clever you should be able

Oh, that leaves me out, then :-)

Managed to figure it all out with the help of the wrapper stuff above. It 
turns out that both 'os.system' and 'commands.getoutput' (which I had 
tried) trash so much of the execution environment that there's hardly 
anything left for the binary to wprk with.

I'm left with the following code in my CGI app:

  cmd = 'export PGPPATH=/var/www/.pgp; /usr/local/bin/pgp -z windsurf -sta 
-f - '
  print 'content-type: text/html\n\n'
        
  pw,pr = os.popen2(cmd)
  pw.write(tdata)
  pw.close()
  junk = pr.read()
        
  print string.replace(junk, '\n', '<br>\n')

Thanks for your help! It's a shame there isn't a scheme for sending 
beer/pizza vouchers over the 'net...

-- 

Regards

Phil Edwards
UNIX Systems Administrator
==========================================================================
Mistral Internet                                  http://www.mistral.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)1273 747432                           Fax   +44 (0)1273 747452

Running Mandrake Linux release 8.1 (Vitamin) for i586 Kernel 2.4.8-34.1mdk
System uptime : 8 days, 8 min,  2 users,  load average: 1.66, 1.36, 1.24 
==========================================================================



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 07:35:54 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:35:54 GMT
Subject: starting a python program from within xemacs
References: <1017098019.357959@DS9.ai-lab.fh-furtwangen.de> <a7p8ip$a2n$1@news.idiom.com> <ubsdbzj0r.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a7seba$n1n$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <ubsdbzj0r.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson wrote:

> jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) writes:

>>  More to the point, is there a way to direct the Python curses module
>>  to use an alternative terminal/device?  

> There's no wrapper for newterm, so not really, no.  Also tput is
> more-or-less impossible to wrap sensibly, so you'd have to do delays
> by hand, if you care about such things.

 I don't understand.  Why couldn't it be redirected to use
 the same timing as the other terminal? How is tputs involved 
 in the curses module?  (I'm guessing you're referring to tputs(3)
 rather than tput(1)).  From the man pages I'd suspect that
 the Python curses module would make little if any use of tputs
 since the man pages suggest higher level functions for most
 operations.
 
>>  This would be handy for other situations as well (for example when
>>  running interactively via idle or from an xterm or a Linux/FreeBSD
>>  virtual console).  It would be nice to have the interactive prompt
>>  and output decoupled from the "user's" I/O --- especially when
>>  playing with the curses module.
 
> http://www.python.org/patches/ :)
 
>>  I suppose I could try reading the Python curses sources and looking
>>  for the place where it sets up its terminal context.
 
> Adding a wrapper for newterm probably isn't that hard, and is, I
> think, the right thing to do here.
 
> Cheers,
> M.

  Ahhh!  I see.  newterm() is a function in the ncurses library.
  


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 14:40:17 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:40:17 -0500
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org> <kuadsx2958.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3@engcorp.com> <ku663l2598.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <3C9E2BA1.E500BE4A@engcorp.com>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> 
> In article <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen
> | Keeping in mind Python's propensity for finding already-existing
> | entities and binding to them instead of creating new objects.
> 
> | The difference in memory consumption between creating a list
> | of size 1,000,000 filled with 0's and the same size list filled
> | with integers from 0 to 999,999 is rather large...
> 
> you make it sound more mysterious than it is - only numbers under
> 100 and identifier-like string literals get interned, afaik.

So you mean if I do the following, the first one produces only
a million references to the value 51, while the second one produces
a million instances of 102 plus the million individual references?
I don't get that behaviour.  On my machine, with Python 2.2, for 
all intents and purposes the memory allocated stays constant.
Did I overlook something?

>>> b = 1
>>> a = [0] * 1000000
>>> for i in xrange(len(a)): a[i] = b*51
...
>>> b = 2
>>> for i in xrange(len(a)): a[i] = b*51
...

-Peter


From dragon at china.org  Sun Mar 10 23:55:36 2002
From: dragon at china.org (Qiang.JL)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:55:36 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com> <oBTi8.1475$523.127893@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <cNWi8.104670$aFN.23973@news1.bloor.is>

"Patrick" <netlangau at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:oBTi8.1475$523.127893 at ozemail.com.au...
>
> "Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
> news:a6g7ra$lm6$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> >
> > But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
> > than C/Python?
>
> One example is an extremely complex and long-running simulation in which
the
> time-critical components are a very substantial chunk of the project. In
> those (rare) situations you need ruthless efficiency with slightly better
> than rudimentary abstraction capabilities. C++ fits the bill, but only if
> every processor cycle and every byte counts.
>
> The vast majority of programmers will never go anywhere near a project
like
> that. Even "real programmers" very seldom do. And you can virtually
> guarantee that if somebody is idiot enough to claim that knowing C++ is
> either necessary or sufficient for being a real programmer, they will
never
> work on a project that actually needs C++.
>
> Unless somebody has already spent years learning C++, I think they're much
> better off using either (a) one vastly more powerful yet still reasonably
> efficient language like Common Lisp, or (b) two lean and vicious languages
> like C and Python - both small and simple, both perfectly suited to their
> respective domains, and both complementary. Either way you end up with
very
> good performance and far less mental friction.
>
> If the OP is still around, I'd recommend learning C and Python at this
> stage. In spite of what your friends tell you, C++ is *not* a powerful
> language in the sense that it has one of the worst power/complexity ratios
> of any language in use today. Don't mistake effiency for power.
>
> If two people of equal ability started programming today, one learning C
and
> Python, the other learning C++, I'd wager that the C/Python guy will be
> running conceptual rings around the C++ guy 12 months from now. Power in a
> language is all about being able to express your most complex thoughts
with
> as few arbitrary difficulties as possible. Some languages help. Some
hinder.
>
>
>

reasonable,very impressive, Thanks!




From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Fri Mar 15 14:21:36 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:21:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ***Stopping a Python Thread***
References: <4378fa6f.0203151245.2a87b42d@posting.google.com> <slrna94nqk.r9h.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <1016229096.335233@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Steve Lamb (grey at despair.dmiyu.org) wrote:
: On 15 Mar 2002 12:45:48 -0800, Marc <mnations at airmail.net> wrote:
: > command to try and kill it all. But the thread keeps running and does
: > not stop. How do I kill this thread before it completes?

:     You must stop each thread from inside the thread.  So have some flag
: somewhere that it can check to see if it needs to shut down early.

Actually, you only need to stop non-daemonic threads.  For example, if all
the threads (but the main thread) are daemonic, then calling sys.exit in
the main thread will exit the program.  (To make a thread t daemonic,
execute t.setDaemonic(1) before starting the thread.)

Finally, if you *must* rudely exit the program from a non-main thread, you
can use os._exit.  You're supposed to avoid this, but ...


Greg


From christophe.delord at free.fr  Mon Mar  4 16:41:38 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:41:38 +0100
Subject: Problem with SRE's regular expressions
References: <3C83D5C6.7010303@free.fr> <W5Rg8.29781$l93.5779533@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3C83EA12.5030406@free.fr>

Thanks for your explanation!

In my real program, I had a more complex regexp. I need to match text 
enclosed in << ... >>
I first have used such an expression : <<([^>]|>[^>])*>>
but I prefered <<.*?>> because it is more readable.

I'll listen to the advice and use my old regexp to see how faster it is 
this way ;-)

Thanks,
Christophe.

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Christophe Delord wrote:
> 
>>I'm using regular expressions in python in a parser generator. I have
>>some troubles with the module named 're'. In fact it uses the 'sre'
>>module. When I explicitly use the old 'pre' module it works fine.
>>So my problem is when big strings are scanned using non greedy operator
>>(for example ".*?") 'sre' seems to be recursivle and python stack limit
>>is exceeded.
>>
> 
> the SRE engine is trying to tell you that you're using the wrong
> tool for the task, and probably should think of a better way to
> do the right thing...
> 
> 
>>big_string = "<" + "that's a very very big string!"*1000 + ">"
>>
>>if re.match('<.*?>', big_string):
>>
> 
> here's the same thing, without any backtracking:
> 
>     if re.match('<[^>]*>', big_string):
> 
> under PRE, it's about an order of a magnitude faster than your
> version.  and SRE is over twice as fast as PRE on this one...
> 
> </F>
> 
> 


-- 
Christophe Delord
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 19:54:22 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:54:22 +0000
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrna8nesk.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8o01u.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:01:02 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>In article <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>, phil hunt wrote:
>> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
>>>C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
>>>that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
>>>Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
>> 
>> I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python, 
>> e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems, 
>> run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.
>
>And I can think of several languages which are better than C++
>for those tasks:  Modula-2, Modula-3, Ada, Bliss-32...

Not if you take into account factors such as availability of 
compilers, libraries, reference works, programmers etc.

Sometimes, the popularity of a language is itself a factor 
determining how good it is. For certain values of "good", of course.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 19:11:04 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:11:04 -0800
Subject: Breaking String into Values
References: <HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <MPG.170ea2709d1d2965989685@news.nwlink.com>

In article <HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, 
rgwright at ux.cso.uiuc.edu says...
> I am working on reading in a data file format which is set up as a series
> of lines that look like this:
> 
> 3500035000010104A Foo 45
> 
> I want to break up into a variables as follows:
> a = 35000, b = 35000, c = 10104, d = 'A', e = 'Foo', f = 45
> 
> My current code (auto-generated from a data dictionary) looks
> something like this:
> 
>.... 
> Is there a better way to do this? The files have around 1000-8000 lines each
> so I would like it to be fast. Is there a package around that someone has
> coded up as a C-extension to do this?

I've done something similar to this, and find it to be not all 
that slow.  (I haven't timed it, but on my 500-1000 line files 
the processing time was no more than about a second.)  The most 
significant difference in my approach, was that I parsed each 
line into a class object, and I used a dictionary to define the 
beginning and end of each field.  (In my case, there were fields 
in the data that I was uninterested in, so this allowed me to 
grab only those sections I needed, and by defining my format 
separately from my code, it made it easier to adjust.)

So, I would have something like this:

format = { a: (0,5),
           b: (5,10),
           c: (10,15),
           ....        }

class Record:
    def __init__(self, data)
        for field,zone in format.keys():
            setattr(self, field, data[zone[0]:zone[1]])

If you want to do error checking of most of the fields, I'd 
define a series of functions that do whatever checking and/or 
converting you need, and include those in the dictionary:

def ConfirmValidId():
    ....

format = { a: (ConfirmValidId, 0, 5),
           b: (int, 5, 10),   ... }

Then your setattr line becomes:

        setattr(self, field, zone[0]( data[zone[1]:zone[2]] ) )
 
You can also define various access methods and such on your 
Record class, making it easier to use.  If each record is only a 
few hundred bytes, then it's probably not a problem to read your 
entire file into memory, too.  (It'll take a couple of megs of 
memory, which is trivial on a modern machine.)

recordlist = []
for line in datafile.xreadlines():
    recordlist.append( Record(line) )

for rec in recordlist:
    Process(rec) 
    ...

This should be fast enough unless you've got *very* strict time 
constraints.

-- 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International


From r.salz at verizon.net  Thu Mar 21 10:58:11 2002
From: r.salz at verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:58:11 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C9991C0.4080102@pobox.com> <3C99D770.57345464@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A031E.5070408@verizon.net>

>>Peter, what do you think about qualifying problem sets like what
>>arsDigita had? <http://www.arsdigita.com/boot-camp/psets/>
> 
> 
> I think that's an interesting sounding name for something.


It's the MIT term for homework.
	/r$



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Mar 10 21:17:23 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 11:17:23 +0900
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <87henqe4dy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <roy-980AE9.09025509032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87zo1fc0gc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Roy" == Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

    Roy> as we discover imcompatabilities between whatever version I'm
    Roy> using to develop on and whateve they're running on their
    Roy> boxes.

    >> So you standardize locally.

    Roy> It's one thing to say "so you standardize locally", but the
    Roy> fact is, even requiring just that is an impediment to
    Roy> adoption.  A typical scenario goes like this:

    Roy> Me: "Hey guys, I wrote a great new program, called foo.py.
    Roy> It's in CVS, under tools."

    Roy> Co-worker: "Neat, but when I go to run it, I get a syntax
    Roy> error"

    Roy> Me: "Let me see.... Oh, you've got python 1.5.2!  Do you have
    Roy> any idea how old that is?  You need to upgrade to 2.1.2"

And I say, "Roy, what are you doing programming for 2.anything if the
people you're trying to sell to are running 1.5.2?"  I didn't mean
"make _them_ standardize" (you already made your point, I was
listening!), I meant "_you_ comply with the de facto standard (least
common denominator)."

Marketing is about two things: convincing others to buy in to the
pain, and absorbing as much of the pain as you can yourself.  Most
people seem to think that it's only the first part.  One of the things
the Microsoft is really good at is postponing pain until the customer
is already locked in.  But that cost them a lot up front.

If I have tools I want to distribute to folks who aren't bleeding-
edge-distro-Linux users, I program in python 1.5.  It hurts, but it
wins.  Once you've got them hooked, they come saying "why can't it do
...?" and _that's_ when you say "it's too hard in 1.5, I don't have
time.  But if you'll upgrade to 2.1.2, it's already in CVS...."

If you're not doing that, then you're just programming for yourself.
Which is fine:  unless your job is writing for others, your needs come
first.  But it's not investing in support for your tools from your
coworkers.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 11:15:38 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:15:38 +0000
Subject: Message bug?
Message-ID: <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj@4ax.com>

Would I be right in thinking that this message quite what the
developer intended?

AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'work'

I have no module called 'module'. 

Python 2.2 on Win2K.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Sat Mar 23 19:51:14 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:51:14 GMT
Subject: simple question
References: <mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list@python.org> <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net> <mailman.1016868517.25439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9q8cp.r86.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Christopher Palmer graced us by uttering:
> Let's say I have a variable called a
> 
> and a contains an integer, say 4522
> 
> and I want 4, 5, 2, and 2 to be items in a list instead of an integer...
> 
> I know it must be dirt simple, but nothing I have tried so far has worked.

Actually, not as simple as it might be, but here's what I came up with:

    >>> i = 4522
    >>> l = [x for x in str(i)
    >>> l
    ['4', '5', '2', '2']
    >>> 

> Thanks in advance,
> CTP

HTH
Tim Hammerquist
-- 
I would feel infinitely more comfortable in your presence if you would agree
to treat Gravity as a Law, rather than one of a number of suggested options.
    -- Barnabas, The Sandman


From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Mar  4 09:32:14 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:32:14 GMT
Subject: What readers want (was: Deitel and Deitel Book...)
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com> <u7vhn9gdkm7917@corp.supernews.com> <91F926228151D5F5.946DE1D959605688.72F5DF01B36707F9@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3c8383a3.291935621@news.laplaza.org>

On 1 Mar 2002 18:54:39 -0600, claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron
Laird) wrote:

:In article <u7vhn9gdkm7917 at corp.supernews.com>,
:DeepBleu <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote:
:			.
:			.
:			.
:>> I would love to see books on Algorithms with Python (makes a perfect
:>> fit), and more advanced topics such as threads and extending python.
:>
:>I'd love to see something like that specially on threads and extending
:>Python.  This is something I can use.
:>DeepBleu
:>
:>
:
:How would you feel if such material appeared in magazines rather than books?

Replying generically since I didn't start this thread, print magazine
articles tend to end up chopped by space constraints, and they
"expire" - if you happened to pick up a copy of that magazine, and it
doesn't get lost in your pile of 23,269 "I ought to go through this
someday" tech magazines in boxes out in the shed, then you have it.
If you missed it first time, and it's not on the web...

On the plus side, if the topic of the article is the one thing I'm
interested in, it's a lot more palatable than picking up yet-another
$50+ book.

Mats Wichmann



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar  4 22:59:03 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:59:03 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu> <7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-A9DCEE.19590304032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <7xwuwrofhk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
 Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:

> Usually the term "natural numbers" don't include zero.
> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NaturalNumber.html

I think "usually" is an exaggeration.  For instance, a better authority 
than Weisstein, Ebbinghaus et al's _Numbers_ (Springer Graduate Texts in 
Mathematics 123, 1991, p. 14) disagrees.


From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sat Mar  9 17:33:32 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:33:32 -0500
Subject: Tkinter + Button widget
Message-ID: <3c8a921b$1_1@nopics.sjc>

when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?

    def HideNewClient(self, frame):
        frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
        return

        pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                               text="Search",
                               relief=GROOVE,
                               font=("Tahoma", 10),
                               width=16,
                               command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))

any help would greatly be appreciated.

Adonis




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Mar  1 20:48:30 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:48:30 GMT
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014944882.14890.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-80232B.17244028022002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C802175.A527BFA0@ccvcorp.com> <eppstein-AE4788.17102601032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <76c08ukou81p7lfnnoiftfhaf5v66amglm@4ax.com>

>Now which is easier to come up with?

for i in [9:3]:

... with the provision that the negative stride is
inferable and therefor assumed. This has been rejected
already so I hear. But it still seems perfectly clear
to me. I guess I'll have to go hunt down the PEP and
see what the rejection rationale was...

At least we dont have for (exp-list;expr-listl;expr-list):

That's nasty, imo.

C//



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Tue Mar 26 13:41:53 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:41:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa1g7h.87e.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <3C9F51EE.5000203 at jerf.org>, Jeremy Bowers wrote:
>Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>> I'm thinking about implementing a library that uses the xml-part of
>> XML-RPC (i.e. XML-RPC without the HTTP) in two-way persistent stream
>> (tcp socket) somewhat like Jabber, to improve performance.
>
>Why not Jabber? Jabber is meant to do that. It's designed to do that. 
>It's *begging* you to use it that way.
>
>This is in stark contrast to HTTP. HTTP thinks you're nuts. HTTP will 
>fight you tooth and nail. HTTP is old, and hoary, and set in her ways. 
>And XML-RPC isn't exactly ecstatic about being streamed, either.

Well, jabber-rpc is just XML-RPC in a Jabber stream... :)

>Why fight the system when you can work with another one?

Simplicity. Setting up a Jabber server and using Jabber clients may be
overkill if I can  add 20 lines of code in subclasses of
xmlrpclib.Server and SimpleXMLRPCServer. But, yes, Jabber is cool.
(And the standard server is written in C, so, of course, that would
help performance ;)

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Fri Mar  8 14:53:27 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:53:27 +0100
Subject: PyQT: QString to String Problem if ASCII>128
References: <3C88A748.2F95D854@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <3C8916B7.E5396663@gmx.de>

no ideas?

I found a possible solution, but is this the best way?

    uc=self.edit.text()
    try:
      t=str(uc)
    except:
      try:
        t=unicode(self.edit.text()).encode("cp437")
      except:
        t="invalid char in string"

Ingo




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar  6 10:57:44 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:57:44 +0900
Subject: Bugs/Patches not being watched (Re: Flushing stdout with raw_input)
References: <q0ph8.54$_Z4.217@news.hananet.net> <un0xl4w2a.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <KQqh8.59$_Z4.34@news.hananet.net>

Michael Hudson scribbled with his keyboard:
>> I will write
>> another bug report about the unresponsiveness to bug reports as well, as
>> there are a lot of bugs that aren't even addressed at sourceforge.
> 
> Oh, that will help, sure.
> 

I wish to take back my comment about the bugs not being watched. I happened 
to get some attention from the BDFL, and I feel real bad for bothering him 
and taking his time. I looked at the stack of bugs at SF, and I saw a lot 
of old ones that hadn't even been assigned or handled, and I thought that 
meant that no one reads them. That is wrong.

Jonathan





From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Mar 29 19:36:36 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:36:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: table driven code [was: Breaking String into Values]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203291846200.1400-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203291929170.1400-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, I  wrote:

> Sometimes, with data file conversion problems, I will make an intermediate
> class to represent the abstract object, with methods to load from or dump
> to the particular representation format.
>
>
> Again -- it's more overhead to do it that way, but I've usually found
> it worth it in the long run.

I should add, that the reason it's usually been worth doing that way,
is that once I've done an "A to B" converter, typically, it's not long
before I find I need a "B to A converter" or a batch editor to change
some field in a directory full of files, or a 'splitter' or a 'merger'
or something to gather statistics from the files...

But if you're *sure* that you're only going to do this once, then by
all means, go ahead and go all out for speed! ;-)

-- Steve Majewski





From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 11:48:25 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 08:48:25 -0800
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203130848.3c29750c@posting.google.com>

Martin v. Loewis:
> I don't count articles in a newsgroup saying "this is a good thing",
> "just continue with your efforts", "we definitely need this" as
> interest.  Instead, people contributing code, reporting bugs, or just
> using the system in their applications show interest. This is the case
> for Jython, but I don't think Armin or Christian got much actual code
> contributions. Likewise, when Mark would not deliver a win32all build
> for a few weeks, people would complain - but nobody would actually
> step forward and publish a build herself.

Perhaps you're right, but the wonderful work Armin, Christian, and
Mark (God bless them) are doing qualify as deep magic in my book: it
just ain't easy to wrap your brain around the Psyco, Stackless, or
win32all C/C++ codebases. I'm sure many pythonistas would love to
contribute... maybe it's just a matter of time.

When it comes to use, however, there must be many instances which just
aren't talked about. Personally, win32all is an integral tool in my
python toolchest and I've used Psyco to more than double the speed of
one part of an application with great success. I haven't gotten round
to using Stackless to any great effect simply because my brain can't
accomodate first-class continuations... but I'm eagerly awaiting the
practical library that will accompany the new generation stackless:
microthreads are most welcome!

I think the best way the average non-guru level pythonista can
contribute is to document her/his experiences with various modules in
howtos, place examples in the pubic domain, and just spread the love.

all the best,

Sandy


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 09:25:24 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:25:24 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:13:26 CST."
             <NBBBIOJPGKJEKIECEMCBMELCMKAA.pobrien@orbtech.com> 
References: <NBBBIOJPGKJEKIECEMCBMELCMKAA.pobrien@orbtech.com> 
Message-ID: <200203301425.g2UEPOp01732@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> What is the likelihood that __nonzero__ could be renamed (at some
> point in the future) to something a bit more intuitive, like
> __bool__? I know there would be a lot of user code to change, but
> assuming one day the hammer will drop and everyone's __nonzero__
> will have to change to return a bool, I wouldn't mind seeing the
> method renamed as well.  Or is this a lost cause at this point?

I think it's a lost cause.  It's one of those minor details that might
be considered wrong with 20/20 hindsight, but not wrong enough to want
to bother fixing it, given the cost (to the user community) of the
fix.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Tue Mar  5 23:14:29 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 04:14:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <x6664aai3k.fsf@notus.mii.dynalabs.de>
Message-ID: <1015388069.929994@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Michael Piotrowski (mxp at dynalabs.de) wrote:
: aCC is the C++ compiler; the unbundled ANSI C compiler is cc. But
: since the OP was able to compile Python, I doubt he used the bundled
: compiler--you wouldn't get that far with a K&R compiler, I think.

In the Makefile, the compiler was "cc -Ae", which is the ANSI compiler plus
extensions.  However, in "configure", plain old cc was used, and that is
the K&R compiler in HP-UX 10.2 (but not in HP-UX 11).  This is the compiler
that misunderstood the indented compiler directives.


: My guess is that, like this problem, most problems on HP-UX are in
: configure. 10.20 and threads is, ahem, a bit problematic; the DCE
: threads are _not_ POSIX threads.

It sounds like I'm lucky that my Python 1.5.2 threads are working on HP-UX
10.2!  I should perhaps just be content with that?


Greg


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Sun Mar 31 18:51:48 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:51:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: piddle on xdarwin
References: <a73b2202.0203300927.34475f43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaaf88k.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <a73b2202.0203300927.34475f43 at posting.google.com>, Adam C. wrote:
>I recently got a copy of fink, xdarwin, python etc.  It all works
>beautifully, but now I want to stop printing prime numbers to the
>stdout and actually draw things.  I downloaded a copy of piddle and
>installed it.  It installed fine and the modules can be imported etc. 
>Unfortunately, when I run the test files nothing happens.  There is no
>error, but no window pops up either.  I have tried this with several
>back ends, but none work.  Does anyone have any advice?

Try the piddle/sping mailing list, perhaps?

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Mar  7 19:38:26 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:38:26 GMT
Subject: Problem with VB-COM-Python arg passing/value returning
References: <mailman.1015540934.12374.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C88081D.7040201@skippinet.com.au>

Sue Giller wrote:
> I am hoping that someone here can help me with the following 
> problem.
...
> public property get ByValArg(byval arg1) as variant
> 	ByValArg = 1
> end property
...
> 	info = idobj.ByValArg("abc")	# raises python error:  
> 									#Type Error:  list () argument 
> must be a sequence
> 	print `info`

I would be interested to see the complete traceback, as I can't see 
where the list() call comes from.

However, the problem is probably that ByValArg() is a *property*.  I 
would expect it to still work though - so can you post the entire traceback?

Thanks,

Mark.



From ak at silmarill.org  Sun Mar 24 20:21:28 2002
From: ak at silmarill.org (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:21:28 GMT
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
References: <mailman.1016971717.5613.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9suvj.849.ak@ak.silmarill.org>

In article <mailman.1016971717.5613.python-list at python.org>,
maximilianscherr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> Is there any good tutorial for creating advanced client/server apps
> (like online games) out there? i tried to make one 2 times, and both 
> did not really work well, the first try had problems with 
> communcications between the client threads, the second one had 
> problems with connecting at all!!!
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Max
>
Deitel's Python: How to Program has a chapter where a networked tic tac
toe game is created using server/client mechanism.

> 
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar  4 17:17:43 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:17:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for        numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org>        <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <mailman.1015092245.20363.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna87sk7.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:04:44 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>According to the pow man page on my Mandrake 8.1 system it suggests that
>ERANGE should be set if its first arg is zero.  This appears to happen when
>x is around 1.5717e-162.  I suspect a bug in glibc (I have version 2.2.4).
>
>In the region where the problem occurs, Python's float_pow() looks like
>
>        PyFPE_START_PROTECT("pow", return NULL)
>        ix = pow(iv, iw);
>        PyFPE_END_PROTECT(ix)
>        Py_SET_ERANGE_IF_OVERFLOW(ix);
>
>Setting a break immediately after the pow() call shows that ERANGE is set
>even though it appears to have correctly returned 0.  Perhaps if iv < 1, ix
>== 0, and errno is ERANGE, errno should be cleared, at least for certain
>versions of glibc?
>

I can't quite follow you analysis here.  Can you put this into a stand-alone
C test prog?  The following C program produces exactly the same result on two
machines, yet on one machine P2.2 raises while on the other it does not.
What else need to be tested?

#include <math.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <errno.h>
extern int errno;

main() {
  double x, y;
  x = 1e200;
  y = pow(x, 2);
  printf("%g %5g %d %s %d\n", x, y, errno, strerror(errno), ERANGE);
  x = 1e-200;
  y = pow(x, 2);
  printf("%g %5g %d %s %d\n", x, y, errno, strerror(errno), ERANGE);
}

Produces
1e+200   inf 34 Numerical result out of range 34
1e-200     0 34 Numerical result out of range 34

Huaiyu



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar 11 04:23:09 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:23:09 +0300
Subject: scripting Outlook express with Python
In-Reply-To: <OfZi8.5$ID.116@news.hananet.net>; from jgardn@alumni.washington.edu on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 04:57:24PM +0900
References: <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06@posting.google.com> <OfZi8.5$ID.116@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <20020311122309.A25769@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 04:57:24PM +0900, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> Sandy Norton scribbled with his keyboard:
> > Does anyone have any experience, code, etc...? I guess my first
> > question should be: is it possible?
> 
> If you want to customize your mail client, you're using the wrong OS. All 
> the customizability is over here in Linux, with procmail and sendmail and 
> fetchmail and all sorts of great stuff that you've never even dreamed of - 
> even in those really wild dreams where you use your computer for a month 
> and it doesn't crash once.

   Quite right (though complete OT here).

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar  4 23:06:24 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:06:24 -0600
Subject: mult-indexed xrange?
In-Reply-To: <slrna8886l.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEAFDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Huaiyu Zhu wrote:
> I forgot to mention: without generating temporary lists.
> 
> >
> >for (x,y) in [(i,j) for i in range(2) for j in range(3) ]:
> >    print x,y
> >0 0 0
> >0 0 1
> ...
> 
> Is list comprehension lazy, ie. without generating the actual list?  

No, list comprehensions are eager.

You want generators:

from __future__ import generators

def pairs(n, m):
    for i in xrange(n):
        for j in xrange(m):
            yield (i, j)

for (x, y) in pairs(2, 3):
    print x, y

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Mar 14 03:08:34 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:08:34 GMT
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
References: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015972703.8850.python-list@python.org> <Exyj8.11281$f33.2556230824@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <a6okea$4ng$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <aRVj8.65776$UB2.2422621287@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <6UYj8.31928$l93.6269925@newsb.telia.net>

"googlePoster" wrote:
> I tried
>
> try:
>    ct = vim.exists("colors_name")        # doesn't work when not defined
> except vim.error:
>    curr_color = "none"
>
> if ct > 0:
>    curr_color = vim.eval('colors_name')
>
> and got
>
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'exists'
>
> apparently 'exists' is supported in vim, but not python's
> portal to it

look at carels's example again: he's not using a vim.exists
function, he's using vim.eval to evaluate a string that con-
tains an "exists" call.

try this instead:

if vim.eval('exists("colors_name")' % name):
    curr_color = vim.eval('colors_name')

if you're going to do this a lot, it might be worth defining
a helper function:

def vim_get(name, default=None):
    if int(vim.eval('exists("%s")' % name)):
        return vim.eval(name)
    else:
        return default

curr_color = vim_get("colors_name", "none")

</F>




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 20:10:26 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:10:26 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014944882.14890.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-80232B.17244028022002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C802175.A527BFA0@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-AE4788.17102601032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C802175.A527BFA0 at ccvcorp.com>,
 Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

> > [x for 3 <= x < 10]
> 
> Personally, I still don't see this as being an advantage over xrange(3,10).

Ok, quick, what if you want to loop over the same values in reverse order?

.
.
.
a
n
s
w
e
r
:
.
.
.

[x for 10 > x >= 3]
or 
xrange(9,2,-1)

Now which is easier to come up with?
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 09:09:27 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:09:27 +0000
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (new proposal):
References: <mailman.1017347282.22449.python-list@python.org><cfcf4b0d.0203291435.d35e21c@posting.google.com> <20020329150225.7efdaf2b.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net> <mailman.1017457426.3412.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b8hbau07c8tm6kad5g9bguhphc8koaiq2l@4ax.com>

"Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote:

>
>Bingo.  Like I said before, "clearer code" is not good enough.  The
>advantage must be *overwhelming*, not just good.
>

Clearer code is one of the issues.

The other important issues are:

Speed of writing;
Ease of maintenance (clearer code);
Speed of Execution;
Doesn't break old code & libraries;
Feasability (compiler constraints);


--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From posselt at brics.dk  Tue Mar 12 10:57:41 2002
From: posselt at brics.dk (Peter Posselt Vestergaard)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:57:41 +0100
Subject: returning a picture from PIL
Message-ID: <a6l8f7$840$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>

Hi
I would like to show a image on a webpage by calling a python script that
through the Python Imaging Library (PIL) loads a picture and then returns
it.
I'm trying to do it like this:
In the webpage I write:
[...]
<img src="http://www.myserver/myscript.py" height="400" width"=500>
[...]

and in myscript.py I write:

[...]
pic = Image.open(urllib.urlretrieve(url)[0])
print "Content-type: image/png\n\n"
pic.save(sys.stdout,"PNG")

the page takes some time loading the picture but nothing is ever shown. If I
change sys.stdout to "filename" the picture is stored perfectly on my disk.
Anyone who can tell me how to do this kind of output from PIL?
Thanks
Regards
Peter Vestergaard





From gimbo at ftech.net  Fri Mar 15 08:04:19 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:04:19 +0000
Subject: line-by-line file read
In-Reply-To: <20020315073010.A13530@phy.duke.edu>
References: <20020315073010.A13530@phy.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <20020315130419.GB12743@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

Here's one way:

fo = open(filename)
while 1:
    line = fo.readline()
    if not line:
        break
    do_stuff(line)
fo.close()

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar 29 08:53:22 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:53:22 -0600
Subject: Random...
Message-ID: <003c01c1d729$2d1eaaa0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wojtek Walczak" <gminick at hacker.pl>

> ** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
> ** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.
> Dnia Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:22:10 -0500, Steve Holden napisal(a):
> >While you correctly interpret netiquette, might it not have been more
> >considerate to this list if you had *mailed* the OP rather than giving
> >her/him a public dressing down which many others also had to read
> >unnecessarily? Or is it OK to waste *my* time by chastising the OP
publicly?
> This note is automatically added to all my posts.
> It wasn't directed to the OP of that thread, it's
> directed to anybody who don't know about it.
> I haven't sent my post to attack OP's person, I answered
> his question (by giving an url to him).

Gah.  Didn't it ever occur to you that YOU are TOP-POSTING
AUTOMATICALLY!  Who made YOU the dictator of netiquette?

Above and beyond that, your admonition is childish.

I rarely get involved in (n)etiquette arguments, but this
is just ridiculous.  If you are going to warn everyone each
and every time you post, well, that's just a bit much.
Worse, a great many newbies have NO IDEA what the term
"toppost" means (in fact I've been on USENET off and on
for years and never knew what it meant until last year),
so you are busting their chops for no reason they can
understand.

Worse, it appears you are busting ANYONE's chops when you
reply to ANYTHING.  This makes you appear to be a crank.

Of-course-I-am-a-crank-and-almost-never-use-dashed-words-ly-yr's

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net






From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Mar 27 14:57:09 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:57:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: interactive python shell
In-Reply-To: <200203271333.38160.geiseri@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203271145360.20134-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, ian reinhart geiser wrote:

> 	I have an python application and I would like to provide a
> "console" in the application where users can have an interactive
> session with python that has all of the applications enviroment.
> This is for debugging the system in real time.
>
> 	Is there an easy way to do this?  All it needs to do is execute
> commands and return data.  I am using PyQt for my GUI, so it would be
> cool to fit into there, but I can get away with a input line and a
> display view if that is easier.  This is not for production, only to
> make a more useful debug tool.

It's not too hard, but it does require experience using some other
modules:

Use the 'code' module. More specifically, subclass code.InteractiveConsole
and override the raw_input method so that it gets input from a socket you
pass to the constructor, and override the write method to write the data
back out the socket.

Next, use SocketServer.TCPSocketServer to listen for incoming connections
and create a ConsoleRequestHandler class whose handle method creates a new
console object and calls its interact method. It's helpful to trap
sys.stdout like this:

def handle(self):
  c = YourNewConsoleClass()
  stdout = sys.stdout
  sys.stdout = self.wfile
  try: c.interact()
  finally: sys.stdout = stdout

(if you need stdout to keep going to the main console while you're
debugging then use a custom file-like class that writes to wfile and the
original stdout and install it instead.)

Some extra things to think about:
- your raw_input method in the Console class needs to be interruptible if
your application needs to be able to shutdown and kill the debugging
console, so it might be good to use select to read input in a loop that is
also checking some shutdown flag
- you won't be able to see the local scope of running functions, so for
this console to be useful you'll probably need to have a global variable
or two that reference whatever objects will be most useful during
debugging.
- your server that listens for incoming console connections should listen
only on 127.0.0.1, and it wouldn't hurt to make it password protected.
- make your raw_input function read data 1 character at a time if
possible, so that you can check for chr(4) (Ctrl-D to exit), '\n'
(newlines, to return the line of input), and '\r' (from Windows users,
ignore these).

If you have more questions I'll see if I can post some code..

-Dave




From jchristl at zdnetmail.com  Tue Mar 19 07:21:10 2002
From: jchristl at zdnetmail.com (Joe Christl)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 04:21:10 -0800
Subject: Newbie: word count and Win32
Message-ID: <e9cd3ea2.0203190421.904cdfb@posting.google.com>

newbie here (don't you just cringe when you read that? :),

I downloaded the python EXE from
http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.2/, found a script on the
mail.python.org Tutor page:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2001-February/003403.html

but I can't seem to get it to run.  I would like it to run from the
C:\ command prompt, like so:

c:\count.py foo.txt   (or)
c:\count.pyc foo.txt

and have it output the lines, words, and characters.  I have tried to
even get it working from the >>> prompt, to no avail.

Am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks for your ideas,
Joe


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar  8 19:14:54 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:14:54 -0800
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8953FE.F18CAA13@alcyone.com>

damien morton wrote:

> is this by design?
> 
> is there any reason why '<string> in <string>' shouldnt work?

Yes, it's by design.  The in operator deals with membership, rather than
finding subsequences.  Strings are a degenerate case, since they're
sequences of "characters" only.  For example,

	[1, 2] in [1, 2, 3, 4]

would rightly return false, since [1, 2] is not a member of [1, 2, 3, 4]
(that would be something like [[1, 2], 1, 2, 3, 4]).  Having in deal
with membership _or_ subsequences would lead to ambiguity, and having it
deal with subsequences among strings alone would be a peculiar
exception.

Say what you mean; there's a .find method (or just string.find) for
finding substrings.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From looping002 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 06:54:53 2002
From: looping002 at hotmail.com (Looping)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:54:53 +0100
Subject: communication with a java applet
Message-ID: <3C9F100D.BAB4F24D@hotmail.com>

Hi all,

I am trying to make a real-time system communicate with a java applet
under IE 5.5. I only have a pyd file (Python 1.5.2) to get the floats
calculated on the platform and I wonder how to make the platform
communicate with my java applet : TCP/IP, CORBA, shared memory,
others... ?

Thanks in advance for any advices,

Looping





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 29 06:04:16 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 06:04:16 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <mailman.1017394184.8725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a81hng$bhq$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017394184.8725.python-list at python.org>,
FREDRIK HULDTGREN <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> wrote:
>
>On a side note, what does PEP stand for?, Ive been seeing it all over
>the mails but I have no clue what it is.

Python Enhancement Proposal, see http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From tripps81 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 00:00:39 2002
From: tripps81 at yahoo.com (Tripp Scott)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:00:39 +0700
Subject: list comprehension question
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324115311.0457dbb8@202.95.131.154>

can i generate this list:

  [1, 1.1, 2, 2.1, 3, 3.1]

with a list comprehension in a form of this:

  [SOMETHING for x in 1,2,3]

and without using side effects like this?

  result=[]
  [(result.append(x), result.append(x+1.1)) for x in 1,2,3]

because the latter case is not very elegant to me.

t




From olc at ninti.com  Sat Mar 30 20:19:44 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:49:44 +0930 (CST)
Subject: CGI/modpython ???
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203311024550.6606-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203311045430.6653-100000@localhost.localdomain>

I've got to stop replying to my own emails ...

Anyway, further to my last two posts (see below), I have another question
or two:

- modpython hasn't been updated for a while ... is it still being
developed?

- where is HTML-embedded Python at? modpython's author refers to several
different systems in circulation and a lack of consensus on how to do it.

Thanks again

Mick

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Michael Hall wrote:

> 
> Sorry folks, I just found the modpython docs, so I can RTFM. Still, I'd be
> interested in any comments about modpython versus Python CGI.
> 
> Mick
> 
> 
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Michael Hall wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'm writing Python CGI scripts using the MySQLdb module and getting a
> > grasp on things fairly quickly ... Python is a cool language (I'm coming
> > to it from PHP). Thanks to Drew and Emile for sorting out my looping
> > function, it works fine now.
> > 
> > Now I'm wondering how modpython is used. If Apache has the modpython
> > module installed, how do I use it? What form do scripts take? 
> > 
> > Do they still look like CGI scripts, or do they look more like a PHP
> > script (some sort of embedded scripting)?
> > 
> > Does a script still use '#!/usr/bin/python', or are file endings (eg
> > .py) used to call the Python interpreter?
> > 
> > Is the script located in public_html or cgi-bin?
> > 
> > What would I have to do with a CGI script written in Python to use it with
> > modpython?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > -----------------------------
> > Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
> > -----------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
-----------------------------
  n  i  n  t  i  .  c  o  m
  data  driven  development 
-----------------------------
Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
-----------------------------




From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Mar 25 15:55:39 2002
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:55:39 -0500
Subject: Installing Piddle plotting 1.014 on a Macintosh. Problems.
Message-ID: <250320021555391378%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>

I have returned to Python after a year away (old version 1.52 on a Mac
using sys 9.1).  I upgraded to Python 2.2 and got messages that my old
version of Piddle was deprecated.  I downloaded the latest version and
am stuck.  After searching the documentation I cannot find how to
install it other than the statment in  the README.txt that says type in  
python setup.py install  and go.  That does nothing for me in the IDE
on my Mac.  I am probably missing something simple, but unless I get
some plotting stuff running my return to Python will be short-lived. 
Can you tell me what I'm missing so I can install a new version of
Piddle on my Mac?  Thanks for any help.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora

  - My views are my own.


From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Tue Mar 19 02:33:36 2002
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:33:36 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
Message-ID: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Hello!

I am messing a bit with my bookmarks (gonna sync them between a bunch
of computers and browsers) and now comes the question.. How does
os.listdir in the windows-compiled python handle international
characters?

For me on my windows 2000 machine, to get them into UTF-8 format I do
something like:

for filename in os.listdir():
        utffilename=unicode(filename, "latin-1").encode("utf-8")

But do we know that it is latin-1? How would we handle chineese
characters? Someone said the filenames were unicoded, how do I
encode/decode the filename som I can get it into UTF-8??

        /Andy

p.s. standard windows compilation downloaded from THE site.
p.s.2 what is the status on win9x? Give it up or ;-)
-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From arigo at ulb.ac.be  Tue Mar 19 12:57:29 2002
From: arigo at ulb.ac.be (Armin Rigo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:57:29 +0100
Subject: For loops with explicit indices -- again
Message-ID: <3c9789ed$0$29676$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Hello everybody,

Here is yet another proposal (or did I miss something similar?) about the
for-with-explicit-indices syntax problems, as discussed in PEP 281
(http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0281.html).

Now that Python has iterators, they could be more explicitely used by user
code. Remember that 'for x in sequence' is equivalent to 'for x in
iter(sequence)', where iter() is used to get a sequence iterator. As it
seems we often loop over sequence elements and occasionnally need an
explicit index, I suggest adding a 'count' attribute to sequence iterators
that returns the number of items returned so far. This just requires putting
the iterator in a local variable. For example, to decrement all positive
integers in a list, modifying it in-place:

    it = iter(lst)
    for x in it:
        if x>0:
            lst[it.count-1] -= 1

No syntax sugar is required. All the trick is in explicitely naming the
iterator object used by the loop. Maybe we should have not a 'count' but an
'index' attribute returning the current index, although it is not clear what
should then occur if we try to read 'index' before we actually enter the
loop (raise a ValueError? Or an AttributeError?).

This idea could maybe be extended to make the attribute writeable. For
example, inside a loop:

    it.count += 1    # skip next element
    it.count -= 1    # process the same element again
    it.count = 0    # full rewind
    it.count -= 1; del lst[it.count]    # remove bad item from list


Does it look reasonable or just plain counterintuitive?

Armin.




From jonathan at onegoodidea.com  Thu Mar  7 04:52:44 2002
From: jonathan at onegoodidea.com (Jonathan Hogg)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:52:44 +0000
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <1cef615e.0203021254.6bf3658@posting.google.com> <3C82C91C.A60B3242@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a5uthe$nsq$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C844D89.31AB890F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <B8ACE8EC.5F93%jonathan@onegoodidea.com>

On 5/3/2002 4:46, in article 3C844D89.31AB890F at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz, "Greg
Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> * Iterating over parallel lists can be written more
> symmetrically with it:
> 
> for i in indices(list1):
>   do_something_with(list1[i], list2[i])
> 
> looks better to me than
> 
> for i, item1 in indexed(list1):
>   do_something_with(item, list2[i])

Yes, but this only works with lists. The point of the 'indexed' proposal is
that it works with any iterable object.

An arbitrary iterable object may not have a length that is computable in
advance, may not be restartable, and quite likely isn't indexable.

Jonathan



From parker at gol.com  Tue Mar 12 18:41:57 2002
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:41:57 GMT
Subject: 15 minute presentation on python?
References: <3c7ab974_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <a5dia2.3vs4847.1@kserver.org>
 <3c7abd92_1@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <SWQAQjEv3oj8Ewz9@hiredata.gol.com>

In article <3c7abd92_1 at corp.newsgroups.com>, Joshua Muskovitz 
<joshm at taconic.net> writes
>> > If you had to give a 15 minute introduction to Python, what would you
>cover?
>> > What is a good example of a simple, but useful, text-based app for a
>Wintel
>> > environment, that has good "wow" quality?
>>
>> Who is your audience? What is their background and what types of things
>> would they like want to do with a computer?
>
>They are the tech faculty for the local tech school.  It is meant to
>demonstrate my ability to teach (something).  I have some ideas, but was
>looking for a few suggestions.  I expect that I won't be able to determine
>the expertise of the audience until the last minute, so I'm trying to come
>up with a few different levels of topics, and I'll pick one when it happens.
>
>I think that something demonstrating lists, tuples, and dicts will impress
>people who are technical (can program in some language) but haven't seen
>python before.  Ideas which specifically show successively more complicated
>things by adding a few things to the (evolving) source is really the ticket.
>
>Maybe writing something like wc, then perhaps an indexer (using a dict to
>construct a list of references, then producing pretty output).  Hmm...  I
>think I answered my own question.
>
>Other suggestions are more than welcome.
>
>--
># Joshua Muskovitz
># joshm at taconic.net
>def lyyrs(sig): return '-'.join(sig.split()+["ly y'rs"])
>lyyrs('Hire me!  I need the work!')
>
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

I wow'd my audience by using Python with the win32 extensions to show 
simple it was to load data (proxy server log files) into MS Excel.

I'd already written a small module to create Excel spreadsheets with 
neat formatting of column and titles, etc.  I simply called this to save 
a list of lists as a smartly-formatted excel spreadsheet.

So my example program developed in four stages:

a) read the file data into a list of lists
b) sort it
c) save it as a spreadsheet
d) filter the data to save only a subset of the original data.

This worked for my audience because (i)  prior to that
(i) unable to load proxy server log files into Excel in any reasonable 
format
(2) the data was too large to usefully inspect in its original format
(3) they liked the way the smart spreadsheet popped up on the screen - 
much more impact than just text scrolling up a cmd window.

Regards
-- 
Ian Parker


From torstenson at no-spam.oti-hsv.com  Mon Mar  4 12:31:46 2002
From: torstenson at no-spam.oti-hsv.com (Eric Torstenson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:31:46 -0600
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
Message-ID: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

This is really frustrating for me, and was hoping someone could point me in
the right direction.

I have a class that I use to generate a log. It handles opens, closes and
logging to the file.

I have another class which does a lot of other stuff, and occassionally
writes messages to the log.

The program has worked fine, but when after adding a couple of details (none
of which affected the log), I now get:
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "pLog.py", line 10, in __init__
        self.logInit(sFilename)
      File "pLog.py", line 14, in logInit
        self.fLog=open(filename, mode='w')
    IOError: invalid argument: w

I have read that you can hide built ins by doing:
    from some_file import *
if some_file an instance of open() exists in the *

but I don't have anything like that in my code.

The weirder thing, is that I can use the log in other scripts. I have even
copied the imports to the test script, and it continues to run without
error.

Does anyone know how to determine what is hiding the builting open() routine
(file() does the same), or how to explicitly call the builtin.open()
command? I had trouble with this at the very beginning (I'm still very new
to python), but I usually was able to get it worked out.

thanks,

eric





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  1 06:35:01 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:35:01 -0500
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> .
> ....
> >
> >However, if you are on a 9x platform, and quoting the command just as
> >you want the command interpreter to see it on the command line doesn't
> >work, you might just want to revert to using the short (non-space)
> >version of the name.  So in your example you would replace "program
> >files" with "progra~1" (or whatever it may be in the unlikely event
> >it's different than that).
> >
> >--
> >-- David
> this is win2k. I have tried quoting with "", but I still seem to be
> getting
> 
> no such command C:\program  etc

I'm pretty sure the last time I checked the PROGRA~1 convention still
worked on WinNT.  Are you sure this doesn't work on Win2K as well?
They're supposed to be the same thing, no?

-Peter


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar 21 17:30:44 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 22:30:44 GMT
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016724875.29984.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7dmuk$21j0$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1016724875.29984.python-list at python.org>, Nick Arnett wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: python-list-admin at python.org
>> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jim Dennis

>[snip]

>>  I don't know what you're really trying to do, but I decided to 
>>  code up a quickie "word counter" for the hell of it.

>Wow -- thanks.  I'm going to ask questions more often now!

>Nick

 I deliberately made it a class so you could instantiate 
 multiple word counts on different blocks of text to compare them
 or whatever, and so you could import it into other programs and
 use other methods (i.e. a web spider with urllib and a "text" extractor
 with htmllib) to get your text.

 With a bit of work this could be cleaned up into a more general
 class which could then be used as the parent of some more specialized
 word counters (with different notions of acceptable character sets,
 and different semantics on handling hypens and apostrophes).  In fact
 it would make alot of sense to simply my Wordcount class and either
 use it as a base class or put a Decorator class in front of it to 
 impose all the text parsing semantics prior to calling Wordcount.add()

 I'd definitely factor the "known words" list out of this; possibly
 as its own class which could be (optionally) used by Wordcount (so
 you'd decide at instantiation if a "known words" dictionary would be
 used and (if so) which "known word" sources to use.  It would then
 be possible to use most of that to add support for "stop words"
 ("words" that would NOT be counted).  In practical usage it might be
 sensible to pickle or shelve the "known words" dictionary since it's
 moderately expensive to create it at each run-time).

 Naturally I'd also change the "dump()" method, possibly just returning
 the dictionary and delegating the sorting, filtering, and analysis
 of the results to some other class or function.

 Those bits of refactoring would be pretty simple.  Using this in
 a program that posted the results to your RDBMS should also be easy 
 enough.  



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 11:48:09 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:48:09 +0000
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>
Message-ID: <3C8F82C9.3090308@mxm.dk>

ruud de rooij wrote:

> perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
> (analogous to dictionaries).

Yes if that doesn't conflict with anything it would be a very nice way 
to solve 99% of the cases where I typically use the range function:

theList = ['item1', 'item2', 'item3']
subList = ['item4', 'item5', 'item6']
for i, item in theList.items():
     print item, sublist[i]

But it would not help much in list comprehensions unless they are rewritten:

newList = [(theList[i], sublist[i]) for i in range(len(theList))]

regards Max M



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 13:14:35 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:14:35 -0800
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
In-Reply-To: <Xns91D895B49DD95seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl>
References: <mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns91D895B49DD95seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <20020321101435.56800304.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:42:03 GMT
ingo wrote:

> in news:mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list at python.org Mark Gash
> wrote: 
> 
> > The only way of defining the os name that I have found is then to
> > examine the os.environ .By examining the COMSPEC you will be able to
> > determine a win 9X machine opposed to an NT or 2000 machine (comspec
> > for 9X will show command.com whereas win32 machines will show
> > cmd.exe). 
> > 
> 
> >>> os.environ['OS']
> 'Windows_NT'
> 
> No idea what it does on other platforms.

It depends upon whether the environment variable "OS" is present, so it's
probably less reliable than sys.platform (doesn't exist on RH Linux, at
least).

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar  3 14:32:03 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:32:03 GMT
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
References: <24c39b2c.0203021850.7679418c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015125072.16815.python-list@python.org> <24c39b2c.0203031100.33d57b3d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TSug8.22747$n4.4298824@newsc.telia.net>

Alexander Jerusalem wrote:

> Ok, thanks for your reply. Here's my output:
>
> >>> import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc
> >>> con = odbc.connect("se", "scienceexile", "x")
> >>> c = con.cursor()
> >>> c.execute("select * from country")
> >>> print c.fetchone()
> ('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)
> >>> c.close()
> >>> con.close()
>
> And it's the same when I write the resultset to a file, so I don't
> believe that it's just a display problem.

on the other hand:

>>> print '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn'
?sterreich-Ungarn

more info here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html

    "The interpreter prints the result of string operations in the
    same way as they are typed for input: inside quotes, and
    with quotes and other funny characters escaped by back-
    slashes, to show the precise value"

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/strings.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/exprstmts.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/print.html
    (etc)

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 18 11:27:06 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:27:06 GMT
Subject: Want to convert images into HSL format
References: <a74der$1va$1@rex.ip-plus.net>
Message-ID: <uzol8.25972$n4.5086912@newsc.telia.net>

"F. GEIGER" wrote:

> PIL can supply me with RGB data of an image. Does anybody know, how I can
> PIL have to transform this into the HSL (aka HSI) model?
>
> I'm new to image processing, but if I understand the chapter Introducint
> PIL -> Concepts -> Mode right, HSL is not mentioned there. Well, I have to
> admit, the only two color modes of the mentioned ones I understand are RGB
> and CMYK.

PIL doesn't support HLS images.

if you only need HLS values for individual pixels, you can use
the colorsys module in Python's standard library:

>>> import Image
>>> im = Image.open("lenna.im")
>>> im.mode
'RGB'
>>> im.getpixel((0, 0))
(226, 161, 119)
>>> import colorsys
>>> colorsys.rgb_to_hls(*[x/255.0 for x in im.getpixel((0, 0))])
(0.065420560747663545, 0.67647058823529416, 0.64848484848484833)

see the library reference for details.

</F>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 11 22:33:01 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:33:01 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <OFC4C0956C.2F243EC9-ON88256B79.007ADFA3@i2.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEKDODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> Depending on how much overhead you're willing to bear, it's
>> straightfoward to write wrapper classes (even using the old
>> for/__getitem__ protocol) such that, e.g., adding 1 to every
>> element in a table could be expressed via
>>
>> t = Table(original_table)
>> for r in t.rows():
>>     for e in r.elements():
>>         e.set(e.get() + 1)

[James Althoff]
> This is nice.  We have noticed that there can be a hit in Jython the
> first time you instantiate a Python subclass of a Java class (it seems
> to build some internal structures based on a lot of Java reflection).

I didn't have subclassing in mind; e.g.,

class Table:
    def __init__(self, table):
        self.t = table

    def rows(self):
        return RowIterator(self.t)

    def cols(self):
        return ColIterator(self.t)

class Element:
    def __init__(self, table, i, j):
        self.t, self.i, self.j = table, i, j

    def get(self):
        return self.t.getValueAt(self.i, self.j)

    def set(self, value):
        self.t.setValueAt(self.i, self.j, value)

purely in Python.  Your original table type is incorporated by containment
here, not subclassing.  Now you just need to define RowIterator and
ColIterator.  For example, picking on rows, and in a way that makes "a row"
an object in its own right:

class RowIterator:
    def __init__(self, table):
        self.t = table
        # Unclear whether these guys are 0-based or 1-based.
        # This assumes 0-based.  Fiddle accordingly.
        self.limit = table.getRowCount()

    def __getitem__(self, i):
        if 0 <= i < self.limit:
            return Row(self.t, i)
        else:
            raise IndexError

class Row:
    def __init__(self, table, i):
        self.t, self.i = table, i

    def get(self, j):
        return self.t.getValueAt(self.i, j)

    def set(self, j, value):
        self.t.setValueAt(self.i, j, value)

    def elements(self):
        return RowElementIterator(self.t, self.i)

class RowElementIterator:
    def __init__(self, table, i):
        self.t, self.i = table, i
        self.limit = table.getColumnCount()

    def __getitem__(self, j):
        if 0 <= j < self.limit:
            return Element(self.t, self.i, j)
        else:
            raise IndexError

That implements more than the example at the start actually needs; cut back
to taste <wink>.

> We could implement a Java subclass instead.  But we are trying to
> minimize the appearance of needing to resort back to Java for what are
> probably obvious reasons.  But I think it might be worth having this
> option for times when performance isn't an issue and looping through
> all rows or columns is required.  I would rather do it with the new
> iterator stuff that is available in C-Python, but ... oh well.

The new iterator stuff makes coding this kind of thing clearer and easier,
but the visible *interface* need not change at all.  This is actually
well-suited to the __getitem__ protocol:  that was designed with sequential
indexing in mind, and that's what you're doing here  The new iterator
protocol is an enormous improvement only when sequential indexing is a
strain (like, e.g., in tree traversal).

> ...
> Some helper functions might be convenient.  They would be most
> convenient in a helper utility module, of course, so that we could
> standardize them for the entire development team.  A twist that we
> have to live with is that the 3rd party components are not always
> consistent with each other.  JTable and DefaultTableModel both use
> "getRowCount()".  So we could have a generic function for these.  But
> another 3rd party component uses "getNumberOfRows ()" instead.  So we
> would have to do the try:except:/hasattr/isinstance stuff to make the
> helper functions generic.  Probably worth giving it a try.

I'd try a dict, mapping types to unbound methods, like:

rowcounter = {JTable: JTable.getRowCount,
              DefaultTableModel: DefaultTableModel.getRowCount,
              ThirdPartyBozo: ThirdPartyBozo.getNumberOfRows}

def ri(table):
    "Return indices of table rows."
    return range(rowcounter[type(table)](table))

I don't know whether that works exactly as-is in Jython, but you get the
idea.  Unless you have an unbounded number of classes (a bad Smalltalk habit
you should have given up by now <wink>), using dicts to add "conceptual
members" to classes is an effective technique.

there's-more-than-one-to-do-indirection-in-python-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 15:41:00 2002
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:41:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Python-Help] Re: How to get a key from  dictionary?
In-Reply-To: <002d01c1d504$d0749010$08020196@Jonah>
Message-ID: <20020326204100.576.qmail@web9302.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Matthew Sherborne <miracle at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Sorry to be a show off, but I reckon that this way
> may be faster. Sorry again. The other replies are
> very helpful.  :)
> 
> def findKey(val):
>   for key, value in dict.items():
>     if value == val: return key
>   return None

Apart from the crucial defects of [a] returning a
"random" key if more than one has the sought-for
value and [b] not knowing when None is returned
if no key was found OR None was the "random" key,
this is NOT faster than looping on dict, or even, if
you are stuck with old (<2.2) Python, at least on
dict.keys().  dict.items() must prepare a list of N
tuples, and that's typically slower than it
takes to do N key-to-value lookups.  And let's not
even get into using the name of a built-in type
(dict) as a GLOBAL variable, as this code seems to
be doing.  dict is only a built-in in 2.2 and later,
but there's no reason to use it even for
earlier releases, and it does risk messing some
things up.  If you must have a global (and you
shouldn't), call it adict, thedict, somedict, ...

I keep suggesting:

def findKeys(adict, aval):
    return [k for k in adict if adict[k]==aval]

or the obvious equivalent with adict.keys() if
you're stuck with some old Python such as 2.1.

Returning a list is obviously the right approach
since you're returning something of which there
could be 0, 1, 2, ..., N occurrences.  And a
list is built easily and fast with a list
comprehension.  So, why not?


Alex


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 18 16:51:01 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:51:01 -0600
Subject: Python on VMS?
In-Reply-To: <33e9195e.0203181315.6d841d4a@posting.google.com>
References: <33e9195e.0203181315.6d841d4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15510.24901.305918.528315@beluga.mojam.com>

    Dan> Is Python available on VMS?  There are two links given in the FAQ.
    Dan> One points to a non-existant file and the other declares that the
    Dan> contents have been erased and not made available elsewhere.
    Dan> (Someone should really update the FAQ.)

Updated, but probably not in the way someone searching for a VMS port might
have hoped:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=VMS&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

If anyone stumbles upon references to VMS or OpenVMS ports of Python, let me
know and I'll update the answer again.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sun Mar 31 14:27:09 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:27:09 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl> <m3adsp8zie.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA6F012.E2631003@accessforall.nl> <m3adspm1kl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA762EF.F90D942B@accessforall.nl>

Martin,

you wrote:
> 
> Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl> writes:
> 
> > I'd like to know whether this PEP merging all numeric types would also merge
> > the bool type into its evt. hierarchy.
> 
> See for yourself:
> 
> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0228.html

Quote from PEP 228:

Suggested Interface For Python's Numerical Model

    While coercion rules will remain for add-on types and classes, the
    built in type system will have exactly one Python type -- a
    number.  There are several things which can be considered "number
    methods":

    1. isnatural()
    2. isintegral()
    3. isrational()
    4. isreal()
    5. iscomplex()

End of quote.

While I wouldn't mind for bool to implement this interface,
I would object to True.isnatural() to return True, and also to
True.isintegral() to return True.

> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0242.html

This is the one about numerical kind objects allowing
for predetermined numerical precision. Since the minimal
precision of a numerical kind from this PEP is one decimal digit
it would probably never allow for a number with only two
usable values.

> > > Notice that the relationship of bool and int has two aspects: one is
> > > whether you can combine them in numeric operations,
> > > e.g. 28+isleap(year). There is absolutely no way to remove this
> > > property from the language - too much code would break if that would
> > > raise an exception.
> >
> > There are two ways to do this:
> > - marking such code with: from __past__ import nonbool
> >   (as I remarked earlier this is rather radical)
> 
> I hate the __future__ statement, so I definitely don't want to get a
> __past__ statement. Following PEP 5, you will need a phased
> introduction strategy for booleans if you don't want to interact them
> with numbers. Don't expect to get this in this decade, though.
> 

For backward compatibility I don't mind interacting booleans with numbers.
The coercion framework is there, it only needs to be extended with the bool class
(sigh.)

<snip>

> 
> > - defining __add__ and __radd__ in the int and float classes to also
> > accept a bool sounds quite pythonic and acceptable to me.
> 
> That would work, but only somewhat. There are other places where
> booleans need to act as integers, e.g. indexing: array[b] ought to
> work, for backwards compatibility, even if b suddently turns into a
> boolean. That means that every __getitem__ implementation needs to
> become aware of booleans - so likely a lot of code would break.
> 

Only user code __getitem__ implementations that already use booleans for
indexing would break.
When these are the only ones that would break I think deprecation
would be quite acceptable to handle them, especially because the
fix only consists of inserting an int() call.
Indexing a dict with both int and bool keys might involve some confusion
when True is not 1 anymore. This case should be rare, however.
Slices should be no problem: they only need int values, so the
evt. int() call can be provided when a slice is created.

> > An Square that is a Rectangle has inherits two degrees of freedom,
> > (height and width) which have to constrained to a single one in the
> > implementation.
> > Implementing such constraints is a bit awkward
> 
> That depends on the rectangle interface. If rectangles are immutable,
> implementing the constraint is straight-forward, not awkward.
> 
> class Rectangle:
>   def __init__(self, x, y, w, h):
>     self.x,self.y,self.w,self.h = x,y,w,h
> 
>   def area(self):
>      return self.w*self.h
> 
> class Square(Rectangle):
>   def __init__(self, x, y, w):
>     Rectangle.__init__(self, x, y, w, w)
> 

Even in the non mutable case the redundancy of self.w and self.h
has to be accepted here.

> > When bool is-a int, one would have to (awkwardly) implement at least
> > one such constraint, namely that bool values can only be 1 or 0.
> 
> Not at all. Bools are immutable, and singletons. If bool would not
> inherit from int, nothing in the implementation would change; see the
> PEP.

I meant that the implementation would need to select the appropriate
singleton instead of computing the integer as inherited in the is-a int case.

All this leaves me in favour of PEP 285 with some remarks:
- use of current booleans in user code __getitem__ implementations should
  be deprecated with indication of the int() fix. After this a bool should not be
  an int anymore.
- Once a bool is no more an int, the implementation of backward compatible 0/1 numerical
  behaviour could be done in __add__, __radd__, __cmp__, __rcmp__ and similar
  methods of the bool and/or numerical classes and in __getitem__ methods of indexable
  classes.

Regards,
Ype

P.S. Thanks for putting up with the typo's. Waking up takes more time some days.

-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Wed Mar 20 15:55:07 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:55:07 -0800
Subject: How to pass a dtml-var to a python script.
In-Reply-To: <e6ff04bc.0203201157.245555a0@posting.google.com>
References: <e6ff04bc.0203201157.245555a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200203202053.g2KKrtq01211@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

If you are placing the things in REQUEST, you dont need to pass them, you can 
just extract them from the REQUEST.

<dtml-var ContextSession>
<dtml-var CMAPContext>

In CMAPContext:

ssn = context.REQUEST.SESSION
print ssn['tissue']

Sticking the parameters in REQUEST and passing them through is not always the 
best way, a more explicit approach is usually better.


On March 20, 2002 11:57 am, Mike wrote:
> I am New to python and Zope and am confused about how to pass a value
> I hold inside of a <dtml-var ... > to a python script: here's what I
> am doing(or doing wrong):
>
> <dtml-var "ContextSession(REQUEST)">
> <dtml-let choices="REQUEST.SESSION['choices']">
> <dtml-let myTissue="choices['tissue']">
> <dtml-let myHistology="choices['histology']">
> <dtml-let mySubtype="choices['subtype']">
> <dtml-var "CMAPContext(CORE_HOST, 'Context.jsp', myTissue,
> myHistology, mySubtype)">
>
> ContextSession is a python script that extracts parameters from the
> URL and puts
> them inside of the REQUEST.SESSION.choices placeholder. I then want to
> take them
> out of the session and pass them to the CMAPContext() python script,
> but the way I am doing it doesn't work and I can't find any
> documentation on how to do this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike

-- 
  Andy McKay



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 08:55:51 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:55:51 -0500
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).

I'd really like to see a Python mail/newsreader. That would teach you a lot,
and keep you busy for a while...

regards
 Steve






From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar  5 00:51:33 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 21:51:33 -0800
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <7xd6yjsgt6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:
> In Python, are destructors defined to be invoked in reverse order of
> constructors? 

Huh?  No, of course not.  The destructor is called when the last
reference goes away.  That can happen in any order.

> Basically, I need to know if the order of destruction is guaranteed to be
> the reverse of construction when reference counts on the objects are the
> same (e.g., 1 on this case). Without this guarantee, I don't understand how
> Python can effectively use destructors - it falls into the same hole as
> Java. For me, this is a show-stopper.

When the ref count is 1, the object is still alive.


From rjk at grauel.com  Mon Mar 18 11:34:49 2002
From: rjk at grauel.com (Richard J. Kuhns)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 16:34:49 GMT
Subject: A question about generators
Message-ID: <858z8pg7h8.fsf@moriarity.grauel.com>

I'm a relative newbie with python, so please be gentle.

I have an application where I think either an iterator or a generator would
be ideal, but I have to be able to reset whichever I use.  The paper
"What's New in Python 2.2" says that there's no way to reset an iterator,
so that's out.  Is there a straight-forward way to reset a generator,
though?

My specific application (I'm using SWIG to generate an interface to a
third-party binary-only library, so I have to use the API as is) is
approximately as follows (pretend we're looking through a sorted flat text
file):
1) Select a starting point.  For this particular instance, selecting the
starting point won't necessarily involve an exact match with whatever was
supplied as an argument.
2) Iterate through the file one line at a time until we either find
something interesting or hit the end of the file.
3) Do it all again with a different starting point.

I realize that there are several ways to write the loop I just described,
but I'd like to be able to use a single API for all searches, something
like this:

while 1:
    inkey = raw_input('Well? ')
    # there are also several variants like 'generate_exact_matches'
    for i in generate_appox_matches(inkey):
        if this_is_interesting(i):
            do_work(i)
        break

There's an assumption that if we find anything with the comparable
generate_exact_matches(), they're all interesting.

Should I just keep a variable around that keeps the last value of inkey and
compare them inside the generator each time?  That'll make the generator
code a lot more convoluted. There are several different calls to library
functions that may return a potentially interesting value, but it's
possible.

Any style suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

        - Rich
-- 
Richard Kuhns			rjk at grauel.com
PO Box 6249			Tel: (765)477-6000 \
100 Sawmill Road				    x319
Lafayette, IN  47903		     (800)489-4891 /

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From tist at subdimension.com  Fri Mar  8 11:41:10 2002
From: tist at subdimension.com (Tist Verdonck)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 08:41:10 -0800
Subject: How to compute sunset and dawn times with python?
Message-ID: <22722a23.0203080841.3ed7166a@posting.google.com>

Does anyone know how to compute sunset and dawn times with python?

thanx,
Tist


From wayne at mishre.com  Mon Mar  4 23:30:27 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:30:27 -0800
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org> <a5r98d$vpi$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> <23891c90.0203040402.86c594d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8449E3.10709@mishre.com>


Paul Boddie wrote:
> ddoc <news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<a5r98d$vpi$1 at newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> 
>>>I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
>>>through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
>>>(highlighted in some way). 
>>>
>>Is this what Annotea (Annotation server from the W3C), Third Voice (now 
>>defunct , and to a lesser extent Allegra are for?
>>
> 
> I would think so. Unfortunately, Amaya is probably the only browser
> that supports annotations, however.
> 
> Paul
> 

There's a plugin in for Mozilla linked from the W3C site and I think I 
saw something about a plugin for IE either available or in the works. 
They also have partial support for making the annotations with any 
JavaScript enabled browser, although it didn't provide the full 
capabilities.

-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar  9 18:42:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 23:42:58 GMT
Subject: Tokenize a string or split on steroids
References: <4lpj8u4nbsoqjf2h4upadti62jh4sf4i59@4ax.com> <3C89F25F.A560003F@verizon.net> <h7dk8ugb8e1knu48bma8vns1jjb85pl6s5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6e6m2$ng1$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:10:14 +0100, Fernando Rodr?guez <frr at wanadoo.es> wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:30:40 GMT, Bob Follek <b.follek at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>If you're unfamiliar with regular expressions, here's a good starting
>>point: http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/regex/regex.html
>
>Thanks. :-) BTW, the strings that must be tokenized contain other non
>alphanumeric characters (parenthese, for example), so I tried another regex:
>[{}].
>
>The result, although usable, is sort of weird:
>
>>>> s = "{one}{two}"
>>>> x1 = re.compile('[{}]')
>>>> x1.split(s)
>['', 'one', '', 'two', '']
>
>Where are those empty strings coming from??? :-?
>I can filter() them out, but I wonder where they come from.... O:-)

Think of the commas in the list as places where your pattern matched.
There was nothing in front of the leading match, so that's represented
by ''. Note that there are two commas between 'one' and 'two' -- your
pattern matched twice, because it was a single character. If you change
the pattern to '[{}]+' you will get a single comma between 'one' and 'two',
but the end matches will be unchanged. Of course with that change,
"{one}{}{}{two}" will give the same result as "{one}{two}", so caveat
<Latin-for-changer>.

You can think of join as replacing the commas with the join string, e.g.,
note what happens when you use join on the result above using '!':

 >>> '!'.join(['', 'one', '', 'two', ''])
 '!one!!two!'

This comma talk is just a mnemonic of course, don't take it literally ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mirv123 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 11:18:02 2002
From: mirv123 at yahoo.com (Andres Jaime)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 08:18:02 -0800
Subject: urllib threads?
Message-ID: <92994965.0203270818.500f3665@posting.google.com>

I'm creating a thread as follows:

class t(Thread):
    def __init__(self, url, out_file_name, proxy):
        Thread.__init__(self)
        self.url = url
        self.out_file_name = out_file_name
        self.proxy = proxy
    def run(self):
        get.Get(self.out_file_name, self.url, HTTP_PROXY = self.proxy)

where get.Get is defined as follows:

(I found this code here in comp.lang.python and subsequently modified
it to log)
def Get(out_file_name, url, HTTP_PROXY=None, ACCEPT_HEADER=None,
SHOW=None, **fields):
    proxy = None
    if HTTP_PROXY: proxy = { 'http': HTTP_PROXY }
    d = []
    for key, value in fields.items():
        d.append('%s=%s' % (key, urllib.quote_plus(value)))

    args = string.join(d, '&')
    if args:
        request = url + '?' + args
    else:
        request = url
    try:
        u = urllib.FancyURLopener(proxy)
        if ACCEPT_HEADER:
            if type(ACCEPT_HEADER) != type(''):
                ACCEPT_HEADER = string.join(ACCEPT_HEADER, ',')
            u.addheader('Accept', ACCEPT_HEADER)
        fn, h = u.retrieve(request)
        u.cleanup()
    except:
        str = ''
        urlcleanup()
        if HTTP_PROXY == None:
            str = 'error getting url: ' + url + '\n'
        else:
            str = 'error getting url: ' + url + ' through proxy: ' +
HTTP_PROXY + '\n'
        outfile = open(out_file_name, 'a')
        outfile.write(str)
        outfile.close()
    else:
        str = ''
        if HTTP_PROXY == None:
            str = 'success getting url: ' + url + '\n'
        else:
            str = 'success getting url: ' + url + ' through proxy: ' +
HTTP_PROXY + '\n'
        outfile = open(out_file_name, 'a')
        outfile.write(str)
        outfile.close()

when I create an instance of the class t and call t.run(), the main
thread blocks untill the page has been requested and then the function
get.Get() logs either error or success in the logfile.

On the other hand, when I create an instance of class t and call
t.start() (because it inherits Thread, start will spawn a new thread
and subsequently call run()), I see evidence of neither success or
failure in the log file, which leads me to believe that the thread is
either not being spawned correctly, or that it's dying in u.retrieve()
somehow?

does anyone have any insight into this problem (issues with urllib and
multithreading, etc)

-andres

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andres Jaime
Lucira Technologies, Inc.         
What would you do if someone stole your laptop?
Protect your hardware and sensitive data with MobileSecure
Now available for Download:   http://www.lucira.com 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From hdiwan420 at speakeasy.net  Thu Mar 21 21:59:49 2002
From: hdiwan420 at speakeasy.net (hdiwan420 at speakeasy.net)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:59:49 -0000
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list@python.org> <Xns91D895B49DD95seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <u9l7h5s6jljpd6@corp.supernews.com>

ingo <ingoogni at home.nl> writes:
> >>> os.environ['OS']
>'Windows_NT'
If you have nmap or queso installed, you can always do:
% sudo nmap -v -v -v -sS -O localhost
or 
% sudo queso localhost

	Ok, so it's not exact, but it's just as good as any other way and both
exist on Windows and Unix.
-- 
Hasan =)
GPG KeyID: 0xBE42DCA6
Fingerprint: 1CB0 47E3 0A24 DAC1 DCCA  4225 F166 40C2 BE42 DCA6


From newsfroups at jerf.org  Mon Mar 25 11:37:08 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:37:08 GMT
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> I'm thinking about implementing a library that uses the xml-part of
> XML-RPC (i.e. XML-RPC without the HTTP) in two-way persistent stream
> (tcp socket) somewhat like Jabber, to improve performance.

Why not Jabber? Jabber is meant to do that. It's designed to do that. 
It's *begging* you to use it that way.

This is in stark contrast to HTTP. HTTP thinks you're nuts. HTTP will 
fight you tooth and nail. HTTP is old, and hoary, and set in her ways. 
And XML-RPC isn't exactly ecstatic about being streamed, either.

Why fight the system when you can work with another one?




From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Thu Mar 21 17:46:26 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:46:26 +0100
Subject: PyQT, how to compile SIP on MAC?
Message-ID: <3C9A62C2.ABA9AE5D@gmx.de>

Hi,

I am willing to use PyQt on Mac OS X

But I was not able to compile SIP --
http://www.river-bank.demon.co.uk/software/sip-3.0.tar.gz

Are there any hints you can give to compile SIP with success?

With windows and linux it works fine.

regards,

Ingo




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Mon Mar  4 11:35:47 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:35:47 -0600
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
References: <mailman.1015157113.21698.python-list@python.org> <3C8396F9.199D3E6B@sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <005801c1c39a$a5418900$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Garry Hodgson" <garry at sage.att.com>


> Jimmy Retzlaff wrote:
> > 
> > dix wrote:
> > > I need to know if there is a free library for Python to manage Twain
> > > scanners in order to pilot the scanner and have an image
> > representation
> > > of the paper document.
> > 
> > The wonderful Daily Python-URL (http://www.pythonware.com/daily) just
> > pointed to http://twainmodule.sourceforge.net a few days ago. 
> 
> but this only works on windows, making it useless for real computers.

Ah, dix is interested in *TWAIN* scanner drivers, so necessarily that means
Windows.  The TWAIN driver interface isn't used outside the M$ world AFAIK.





From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Tue Mar 26 11:38:34 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:38:34 GMT
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee>
Message-ID: <eu1o8.422609$pN4.28936017@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

Eduard Smirnov <Ed.Smirnov at mail.ee> wrote:
> I?m writing a diploma paper on the difference between scripting (e.g. in
> Python or Tcl) and system programming (e.g. in C, C++ or Java)

Why do you call Python "scripting" and Java "system programming"?  I do
system programming in Python all the time.

> one of the claims I want to make is that you can often develop applications 
> 10x or more faster in a scripting language.

Shouldn't you gather some data first and then form a hypothesis to test?

Doug Bagley has an interesting paper on the subject.  Google for
"Bagley shootout" or similar.

> If you have any experience in writing applications in system programming
> language (e.g. in C, C++) and re-writing it in scripting language (e.g.
> Python) or vice versa, please compare your work in both implementations,

I did rewrite a simple SQL query utility in Python that was previously
implemented in Java (in preparation for some major new dev work on
the code).  It's a stupid case; it essentially read many
rows out of a database, did some transformations on them and dropped
some rows according to simple rules, then output an ASCII file which
was a sort of precompiled data file to be used as input by another (C)
program.

The original Java was around 1000 lines of code and ran in around 40
seconds.  The Python was around 200 lines of code and ran in around
25 seconds.  But it's a stupid case, performance differences are likely
because of different SQL drivers and file/network I/O performance.  Neither
implementation was optimized at all, both were fast enough.

I really can't compare dev time: the Java implementation went through
a couple of versions and I had to gather requirements and make major
design decisions while implementing it.  The Python was a simple rewrite
that took only an hour or two.  But a rewrite is always much faster than
an original implementation (the C program was developed over months,
but at one point a fairly substantial refactoring which resulted in a
(one piece at a time) rewrite of 50% of the code took only a few days)
if you're concentrating only on cleaning up the code and not on gathering
requirements and implementing new features.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 26 06:01:06 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:01:06 GMT
Subject: starting a python program from within xemacs
References: <1017098019.357959@DS9.ai-lab.fh-furtwangen.de> <a7p8ip$a2n$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <ubsdbzj0r.fsf@python.net>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) writes:

> In article <1017098019.357959 at DS9.ai-lab.fh-furtwangen.de>, Marco Herrn wrote:
> 
> > Hi there,
> 
> > sorry if this is the wrong newsgroup to ask, but I tried in
> > comp.emacs.xemacs and nobody could help me, probably because too few
> > people there code in python :-)
> 
> > I develop a program that uses the curses library in xemacs. But for
> > testing my program I have to save it in xemacs, switch to a terminal and
> > call python myprog.py. Because I use curses, a C-c C-c doesn't work
> > because the xemacs output window isn't capable of using curses.
> 
> > Is there a way to execute the content of my current xemacs buffer in a
> > terminal/x-terminal?
> 
> > Bye
> > Marco
> 
> > -- 
> > Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
> 
>  More to the point, is there a way to direct the Python curses module
>  to use an alternative terminal/device?  

There's no wrapper for newterm, so not really, no.  Also tput is
more-or-less impossible to wrap sensibly, so you'd have to do delays
by hand, if you care about such things.

>  This would be handy for other situations as well (for example when
>  running interactively via idle or from an xterm or a Linux/FreeBSD
>  virtual console).  It would be nice to have the interactive prompt
>  and output decoupled from the "user's" I/O --- especially when
>  playing with the curses module.

http://www.python.org/patches/ :)

>  I suppose I could try reading the Python curses sources and looking
>  for the place where it sets up its terminal context.

Adding a wrapper for newterm probably isn't that hard, and is, I
think, the right thing to do here.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Considering that this thread is completely on-topic in the way only
  c.l.py threads can be, I think I can say that you should replace
  "Oblivion" with "Gravity", and increase your Radiohead quotient.
                                      -- Ben Wolfson, comp.lang.python


From lac at strakt.com  Fri Mar 22 13:33:13 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:33:13 +0100
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python] 
In-Reply-To: Message from "John J. Lee" <jjl@pobox.com> 
   of "Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:07:23 GMT." <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> 
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org>  <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> 
Message-ID: <200203221833.g2MIXDrq005253@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

>On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John J. Lee wrote:
>
>In general, and for a Python archive in particular, I guess there are two
>problems: which metadata, and which software.  So, what's wrong with the
>web + Google (not saying there isn't anything wrong, just interested in
>how you would improve on it)?

The problem is more with web-sites, than with Google, though Google has
made its own little problem.  Most people only visit the top 3 or 5 hits
that Google finds.  So, if you make a query, and web-page 7 is the best
of the lot, you will still tend to read the top 3.  There isn't any
way to say 'this site was useless for me, consider me one unhappy customer'.
Now consider the case where site number 15,899 is your best bet.  Unless
you can come up with the sort of search terms that makes this site come
up higher -- you are never going to see it.  This is a neat problem.

One days reading of your weeks spam will yield you many offers of
programs and advice on how to make your website rise in the Google
ranking.  This reflects the reality that once you have made it to the
top, you basically stay there, so an effort really pays off.  These
companies are, of course, fuelling an arms race, but then some of
them are advising metadata, so I do not mind all that much.

The deeper problem is one of the web itself.  A few months ago, I
wasted 3 days trying to find either a) a bug in my Haskell program, 
and when that looked very unlikely b) a bug in the floating point of
my C libraries. That looked real promising.  Alas, the real problem
was that the formula I had taken from the most popular Google site
for finding the formula I was interested in making into an algorithm
had a + sign where what belonged was a minus sign.

I can't report this; I can't get it fixed; and right now some other
poor soul may have done exactly what I did.  This is worrysome  We
now have too much information at our disposal, vastly too much, when
throughout history we were more likely to have too little.  The problem
now isn't finding stuff -- it is knowing how trustable the stuff is.

EBay has one sort of approach.  So does Advogato (see http://advogato.org ).
It is a real problem and one that interests me a lot.


>[OT: A question I've asked many times and got no answer to is 'why has
>nobody done self-consistent ranking for academic papers'?  I fear the
>answer is simply that most of the data is owned by a small number of
>companies who, as a result, have no real incentive to advance the state of
>the art.  Still, maybe somebody out there is trying to do it...]

Oh yes! Many people have been trying to do this.  See
http://www.isinet.com/isi/news/2001/productnews/8117876/index.html
for one attempt.

>
>
>John




From pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com  Fri Mar 15 23:37:14 2002
From: pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 04:37:14 GMT
Subject: Connecting to a Gnutella-network
References: <PCnk8.84$5Kn.171039232@news.telia.no> <slrna94hg9.4j5.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <_Zzk8.99683$nl1.16550715@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Check out 
http://wvware.sourceforge.net/libwmf.html .  While it's not in Python, it
should compile anywhere you can stuff GCC, and you can always either (1)
write Python-to-C glue code for it, or (2) just call it from a command
line.

-- Asheesh.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:05:45 -0500, phil hunt wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:33:19 GMT, Thomas Weholt <thomas at gatsoft.no>
> wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've looked at the Gnutella Protocol, v.0.4, and wondered about trying
>>to create an implementation in python. I'm a newbie when it comes to
>>this sort of thing, but have created several simple to complex server
>>types of applications using SocketServer and its friends like
>>BaseHTTPServer etc.
>>
>>Has anybody tried to do this before? Does anybody have pointers for
>>newbies like me in such a project ( how to start, how to connect to
>>nodes on a gnutella network etc. )
> 
> I personally haven't, but there are several open-source Gnutella
> clients, just waiting there for you to inspect the code.
>


From amoustafa at pobox.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:26 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:35:26 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C9991C0.4080102@pobox.com> <3C99D770.57345464@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AB46C.2020407@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 
>>Peter Hansen wrote:
>>
>>>Communication skills are, first and foremost, the thing I
>>>look for in hiring.  [...] Next are adaptability [...]
>>>Design skills are useful.  Debugging skills are very valuable [...]
>>>
>>Peter, what do you think about qualifying problem sets like what
>>arsDigita had? <http://www.arsdigita.com/boot-camp/psets/>
>>
> 
> I think that's an interesting sounding name for something.
> What is it?  I'll assume (without taking the time to try
> to figure it out... care to tell me?) that those are basically
> little exams which they use to judge candidates.  If so,
> you already know my answer: as I said, specific knowledge 
> of language syntax is secondary, since I'm more concerned
> about finding people with the skills I mentioned.  
> 

They are the problem sets of Philip Greenspun's MIT course Software 
Engineering for Web Applications (6.916) 
<http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/old-one-term-web-6916>.

> If arsDigita (you'd think a company would know enough not
> to put the word "arse" in their name...)

It's owned by Red Hat now.

> has tests which
> evaluate communication skills, flexibility and ability
> to learn new things, and design and debugging skills,
> then I think their qualifying problem sets are a very 
> good idea...

I think yes the problem sets evaluated the parameters you mentioned.
-- 
Ahmed Moustafa



From BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com  Tue Mar  5 13:52:33 2002
From: BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:52:33 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Justin Sheehy" <justin at iago.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list at python.org...
> "Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:
>

> Perhaps you are using "destructors" to refer to some concept that is
> different from what the rest of us use that word for?
No, based on what he wants to do (and his observation that Python suffers
from the same 'misdesign' as Java) it's pretty clear that he's using
'destructor' in the C++ sense, since C++ dtors have exactly the behavior
he's looking for.

As someone who needed a year or so to separate the C++ and Python halves of
my brain, I sympathize, and can only urge (as gently as possible) Mr Charney
to think Pythonically , instead of dealing with the frustration of expecting
Python to follow C++'s rules. Down that path lies madness.


--
// Brett g Porter * Lead Engineer, Development Practices
// BgPorter at artlogic.com * www.artlogic.com
// Art & Logic, Inc. * software engineering and design
// Desktop * Embedded * Web




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 15:47:39 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:47:39 -0600
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
In-Reply-To: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15494.32875.245451.970310@beluga.mojam.com>

    Julio> I am used to do web scripting using PHP. As a new adventure, I am
    Julio> trying to learn Python....

    Julio> So, I am looking for examples that might help me. Yes, I saw
    Julio> Zope.  Waaaaay too much....

    Julio> .... Where do I start? It's for a weblog (Kuro5hin-like) system.

I'm experimenting with Webware's WebKit <http://webware.sourceforge.net/>
for a new website for my nascent consulting company.  It seems pretty easy
to grok, is nicely object-oriented and has several "adapters" - ways of
connecting between your web server and its AppServer.  My other app-server
type experience is with Mason, which I love except it uses the other
P-language (the one that ends in "l", not the one that ends in "P" ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 13:32:50 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:32:50 +0000
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com> <a6mncn$koc$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <9gcu8u483cn544anr78k67jsknuv4tb6ks@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6ouks$f2t$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Martin Kaufmann wrote:

> 
> I tried to use weave.inline. Here is my code. But put your coffee away
> before you read it (you might spill it otherwise over your keyboard)
> and please don't laugh out loudly.. I really didn't know what I was
> doing, but it somehow worked...
> 

I haven't checked carefully, but using blitz type converters does away with 
some of the low-level manipulations you're using and makes the algorithm 
vastly more readable. 

Some example code to get you going. Run it, play with it and then use the 
ideas therein for your problem. It's stuff I wrote when learning weave usage, 
so there's various little tests simply to clarify issues.

I hope you find it useful,

f.


# Paste into file below here:

"""Simple examples of weave use.

Code meant to be used for learning/testing, not production."""

import scipy.weave as weave
from scipy.weave import converters

from Numeric import *

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
def simple_print(input):
    """Simple print test.

    Since there's a hard-coded printf %i in here, it will only work for 
numerical
    inputs (ints).  """

    # note in the printf that newlines must be passed as \\n:
    code = """
    cout << "Printing from C++ (using cout) : " << input << endl;
    printf("And using C syntax (printf)    : %i\\n",input);
    """
    weave.inline(code,['input'])

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Returning a scalar quantity computed from a Numeric array.
def trace(mat):
    """Return the trace of a matrix.
    """
    nrow,ncol = mat.shape
    code = \
""" 
double tr=0.0;

for(int i=0;i<nrow;++i)
    tr += mat(i,i);
return_val = Py::new_reference_to(Py::Float(tr));
"""
    return weave.inline(code,['mat','nrow','ncol'],
                        type_converters = converters.blitz)

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# WRONG CODE: trace() version which modifies in-place a python scalar
# variable.  Note that this doesn't work, similarly to how in-place changes in
# python only work for mutable objects. Below is an example that does work.
def trace2(mat):
    """Return the trace of a matrix. WRONG CODE.
    """
    nrow,ncol = mat.shape
    tr = 0.0
    code = \
""" 
for(int i=0;i<nrow;++i)
    tr += mat(i,i);
"""
    weave.inline(code,['mat','nrow','ncol','tr'],
                 type_converters = converters.blitz)
    return tr

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Operating in-place in an existing Numeric array. Contrary to trying to
# modify in-place a scalar, this works correctly.
def in_place_mult(num,mat):
    """In-place multiplication of a matrix by a scalar.
    """
    nrow,ncol = mat.shape
    code = \
"""
for(int i=0;i<nrow;++i)
    for(int j=0;j<ncol;++j)
        mat(i,j) *= num;

"""
    weave.inline(code,['num','mat','nrow','ncol'],
                 type_converters = converters.blitz)

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Pure Python version for checking.
def cross_product(a,b):
    """Cross product of two 3-d vectors.
    """
    cross = [0]*3
    cross[0] = a[1]*b[2]-a[2]*b[1]
    cross[1] = a[2]*b[0]-a[0]*b[2]
    cross[2] = a[0]*b[1]-a[1]*b[0]
    return array(cross)

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Here we return a list from the C code. This is probably *much* slower than
# the python version, it's meant as an illustration and not as production
# code.
def cross_productC(a,b):
    """Cross product of two 3-d vectors.
    """
    # Py::Tuple or Py::List work equally well in this case.
    code = \
"""
Py::List cross(3);

cross[0] = Py::Float(a(1)*b(2)-a(2)*b(1));
cross[1] = Py::Float(a(2)*b(0)-a(0)*b(2));
cross[2] = Py::Float(a(0)*b(1)-a(1)*b(0));
return_val = Py::new_reference_to(cross); 
"""
    return array(weave.inline(code,['a','b'],
                              type_converters = converters.blitz))

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# C version which accesses a pre-allocated NumPy vector.  Note: when using
# blitz, index access is done with (,,), not [][][]. In fact, [] indexing
# fails silently. See this and the next version for a comparison.
def cross_productC2(a,b):
    """Cross product of two 3-d vectors.
    """

    cross = zeros(3,a.typecode())
    code = \
"""
cross(0) = a(1)*b(2)-a(2)*b(1);
cross(1) = a(2)*b(0)-a(0)*b(2);
cross(2) = a(0)*b(1)-a(1)*b(0);
"""
    weave.inline(code,['a','b','cross'],
                 type_converters = converters.blitz)
    return cross

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# WRONG CODE. Just like the previous but tries to index arrays using []. It
# fails silently, producing no error messages but an incorrect result (cross
# is [0,0,0]).
def cross_productC3(a,b):
    """Cross product of two 3-d vectors. WRONG CODE.
    """

    cross = zeros(3,a.typecode())
    code = \
"""
cross[0] = a[1]*b[2]-a[2]*b[1];
cross[1] = a[2]*b[0]-a[0]*b[2];
cross[2] = a[0]*b[1]-a[1]*b[0];
"""
    weave.inline(code,['a','b','cross'],
                 type_converters = converters.blitz)
    return cross
    
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
def dot_product(a,b):
    """Dot product of two vectors.

    Implemented in a funny (ridiculous) way to use support_code.

    I want to see if we can call another function from inside our own
    code. This would give us a crude way to implement better modularity by
    having global constants which include the raw code for whatever C
    functions we need to call in various places. These can then be included
    via support_code.

    The overhead is that the support code gets compiled in *every* dynamically
    generated module, but I'm not sure that's a big deal since the big
    compilation overhead seems to come from all the fancy C++ templating and
    whatnot.

    Later: ask Eric if there's a cleaner way to do this."""
    
    N = len(a)
    support = \
"""
double mult(double x,double y) {
    return x*y;
}
"""
    code = \
"""
double sum = 0.0;
for (int i=0;i<N;++i) {
    sum += mult(a(i),b(i));
}
return_val = Py::new_reference_to(Py::Float(sum));
"""
    return weave.inline(code,['a','b','N'],
                        type_converters = converters.blitz,
                        support_code = support,
                        libraries = ['m'],
                        )

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Two trivial examples using the C math library follow.
def powC(x,n):
    """powC(x,n) -> x**n. Implemented using the C pow() function.
    """
    support = \
"""
#include <math.h>
"""
    code = \
"""
return_val = Py::new_reference_to(Py::Float(pow(x,n)));
"""
    return weave.inline(code,['x','n'],
                        type_converters = converters.blitz,
                        support_code = support,
                        libraries = ['m'],
                        )

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
def sinC(x):
    """sinC(x) -> sin(x). Implemented using the C sin() function.
    """
    support = \
"""
#include <math.h>
"""
    code = \
"""
return_val = Py::new_reference_to(Py::Float(sin(x)));
"""
    return weave.inline(code,['x'],
                        type_converters = converters.blitz,
                        support_code = support,
                        libraries = ['m'],
                        )

def in_place_multNum(num,mat):
    mat *= num
    
def ttest():
    nrun = 10
    size = 6000
    mat = ones((size,size),'d')
    num = 5.6
    tNum = time_test(nrun,in_place_multNum,*(num,mat))
    print 'time Num',tNum
    tC = time_test(nrun,in_place_mult,*(num,mat))
    print 'time C',tC

#*****************************************************************************
# 'main'
print 'Printing comparisons:'
print '\nPassing an int - what the C was coded for:'
simple_print(42)
print '\nNow passing a float. C++ is fine (cout<< takes care of things) but C 
fails:'
simple_print(42.1)
print '\nAnd a string. Again, C++ is ok and C fails:'
simple_print('Hello World!')

A = zeros((3,3),'d')

A[0,0],A[1,1],A[2,2] = 1,2.5,3.3

print '\nMatrix A:\n',A
print 'Trace by two methods. Second fails, see code for details.'
print '\ntr(A)=',trace(A)
print '\ntr(A)=',trace2(A)

a = 5.6
print '\nMultiplying A in place by %s:' % a
in_place_mult(a,A)
print A

# now some simple operations with 3-vectors.
a = array([4.3,1.5,5.6])
b = array([0.8,2.9,3.8])

print '\nPython and C versions follow. Results should be identical:'
print 'a =',a
print 'b =',b

print '\na.b =',dot(a,b)
print 'a.b =',dot_product(a,b)

print '\na x b =',cross_product(a,b)
print 'a x b =',cross_productC(a,b)

print '\nIn-place versions. The second one fails, see code for details.'
print 'a x b =',cross_productC2(a,b)
print 'a x b =',cross_productC3(a,b)

print '\nSimple functions using the C math library:'
import math
x = 3.5
n = 4
theta = math.pi/4.
print '\nx**'+str(n)+'=',x**n
print 'x**'+str(n)+'=',powC(x,n)
print '\nsin('+str(theta)+')=',math.sin(theta)
print 'sin('+str(theta)+')=',sinC(theta)




From newgene at bigfoot.com  Wed Mar 27 00:19:02 2002
From: newgene at bigfoot.com (newgene)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 21:19:02 -0800
Subject: Can I use python code to login a website?
Message-ID: <a50631f6.0203262119.3b9db7a4@posting.google.com>

Hi, group,
     
     I am wondering if possible to use python code to login a website
need username and password, like mail.yahoo.com. Another type of
website is poping up a authorization box asking for username and
password instead of a input form within the webpage.

Thanks you in advance.

Newgene


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Fri Mar 29 16:11:48 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:11:48 -0000
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com> <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <junkster-FC1F06.05481529032002@typhoon4-1.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa9m4p.7e6.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:48:15 GMT, Benjamin Schollnick <junkster at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> IF X == 0:
>    DO_THIS ()
> ELIF X == 2:
>    DO_THIS (2)
> ELIF X == 4:
>    DO_THIS (X+2)
> ELIF Y == 6:
>    DO_THIS()
> ELIF Z == "ZEBRA":
>    DO_THIS ( ZEBRA )
> ELSE:
>    DO_NOT_DO_THIS ()
 
 
> But, this routine is not exactly readable compared to a case:
 
> CASE X of:
>    0  : DO_THIS()
>    2  : DO_THIS (2)
>    4  : DO_THIS (x+2)
>    6  : DO_THIS ()
>  ELSE:
>       DO_NOT_DO_THIS()

its_called_a_directory_pointing_to_functions = {'case':closed}

    I do not believe that any language which can have a hash of function
pointers has any business with a case statement.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Mar 22 06:04:20 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:04:20 +0300
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
In-Reply-To: <1o2m9ucoqb9qqs2fcign6sts3ckc3mqkma@4ax.com>; from anders.eriksson@morateknikutveckling.se on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:48:30AM +0100
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a7ci6a$2fqd$1@news.idiom.com> <1o2m9ucoqb9qqs2fcign6sts3ckc3mqkma@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140420.O21612@phd.pp.ru>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:48:30AM +0100, Anders M Eriksson wrote:
> >		file = open(i,"r")
> >		for line in file:
> Here I get the error ^
>     for line in file:
> TypeError: loop over non-sequence
> 
> Is this something specific for Python 2.2, or just a typo?

   Yes, 2.2 only.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 11:08:38 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:08:38 -0500
Subject: OT: Daylight savings time (was Re: Subclass sadness (was Re: 
 [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type))
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <a85od6$9i$1@pani <yu99hemx1e8r.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1017555459.10956.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA73486.72B4059F@engcorp.com>

Richard Jones wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:46, Andrew Koenig wrote:
> > The other way around -- inheriting rectangle from square -- would
> > seem to make more sense because a rectangle has all the information
> > that a square does, and then some.  But that doesn't really work either,
> > because then you can no longer assume that every kind of square is
> > really a square.  After all, it might be a rectangle.
> 
> Hrm, just following this thought here, possibly for no good reason at all
> (hey, it's Sunday, and daylight savings just ended so I've got a whole _hour_
> extra to waste today :)... 

In which country?  Good thing it's not a work day, since I took your
word for it last night...  or was that another advance April Fools joke?

-Peter


From rasmussn at lanl.gov  Fri Mar 29 12:52:05 2002
From: rasmussn at lanl.gov (rasmussn at lanl.gov)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:52:05 -0700
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <slrnaa9a3p.hq8.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AE7F3B92-433D-11D6-ADF0-003065D61546@lanl.gov>

On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 10:46 AM, phil hunt wrote:

>> "Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
>> message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
>>> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
>>> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
>>> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
>>> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
>>> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
>>> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
>>> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).

How about a Python substitute for make.

Craig




From dmitry at athabascau.ca  Fri Mar 22 15:58:47 2002
From: dmitry at athabascau.ca (Dmitry S. Makovey)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:58:47 -0700
Subject: Copmlex structures....
Message-ID: <iUMm8.141$%52.3298@jekyl.ab.tac.net>

Hi. The problem itself is - I want to use complex structures like described 
below, but i want it another way....

01. >>> f={}
02. >>> f['name']='dimon'
03. >>> f['age']=20
04. >>> a=[]
05. >>> a.append(f)
06. >>> print a
07. [{'age': 20, 'name': 'dimon'}]
08. >>> f['age']=22
09. >>> print a
10. [{'age': 22, 'name': 'dimon'}]

I don't like result in the last like I've expected to have [{'age': 20, 
'name': 'dimon'}], how could i do this?

I know that it must be as simple as using something like b[:], but what?

WBW,
Dmitry S. Makovey



From david at goodgirldesigns.com  Mon Mar 25 18:29:14 2002
From: david at goodgirldesigns.com (dc)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 15:29:14 -0800
Subject: Looking for bids
Message-ID: <7085ec43.0203251529.527ce980@posting.google.com>

We are looking for bids to create an online alumni directory similar
to classmates.com using zope/MySQL. We need quotes and timeframes. We
will accept bids up to 3/29/02. Thank you.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 10:54:19 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:54:19 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com> <slrnaacgi8.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA6ABB6.71786096@engcorp.com> <a875qt$qmp$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7312B.9B426248@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <3CA6ABB6.71786096 at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >Yeah, I know.  I think you and Aahz missed my (admittedly puny)
> >point, which was to hypothesize _at least one case_ where it
> >was conceivably desirable by someone to try to copy a string.
> 
> No, I didn't miss your point, I was just chastising you for posting
> incorrect code without posting a solution.  ;-)

Ah, thank you. (bowing) I am still unable to take the stone from your hand.

:-)

-Peter


From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Tue Mar 26 23:09:11 2002
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:09:11 GMT
Subject: Most efficient unzip - inverse of zip?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203262231570.27212-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <3CA0ECAB.2070900@free.fr>
Message-ID: <HBbo8.974$0b.153032@news1.west.cox.net>

In this same vein, I like this (assuming you're using a fairly recent
version of Python):

>>> a = (1,2,3)
>>> b = (4,5,6)
>>> ab = zip(a, b)
>>> a1, b1 = zip(*ab)
>>> a1
(1, 2, 3)
>>> b1
(4, 5, 6)

-tim



"Christophe Delord" <christophe.delord at free.fr> wrote in message
news:3CA0ECAB.2070900 at free.fr...
> Hi,
>
> apply zip again on the zipped list :
>
>
> def unzip(l):
> return tuple(apply(zip,l))
>
> a = (1,2,3)
> b = (4,5,6)
>
> ab = zip(a,b)
> print "zip(a,b) =", ab
> print "unzip(ab) =", unzip(ab)
>
>
>
> zip(a,b) = [(1, 4), (2, 5), (3, 6)]
> unzip(ab) = ((1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6))
>
>
> unzip([(1,4),(2,5),(3,6)]) will compute zip((1,4),(2,5),(3,6))
> zip can zip more than two lists :-)
> and zip((1,4),(2,5),(3,6)) is (1,2,3),(4,5,6)
>
>
> You can also use zip to transpose matrix.
>
>
> Pearu Peterson wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > What would be the most efficient way to unzip zipped sequences
> > in Python 2.2?
> >
> > For example, consider
> >
> >  a_b = zip(a,b)  # where a and b are some sequences
> >  a_b.sort()
> >  a,b = unzip(a_b)
> >
> > For a start, I have
> >
> > def unzip(seq):
> >   ns = range(len(seq[0]))
> >   r = [[] for i in ns]
> >   [r[i].append(s[i]) for i in ns for s in seq]
> >   return tuple(r)
> >
> > Is there any better algorithm for unzip?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Pearu
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Christophe Delord
> http://christophe.delord.free.fr/
>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  9 03:16:19 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:16:19 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <1015655700.378331@yasure>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEOAOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Donn Cave]
> ...
> If there are lots of people using 2.1.2 and it has a serious bug, then
> I'm sure someone will come up with a fix sooner or later,

Like there were many serious bugs in 1.5.2, and sooner or later they did get
fixed.  However, because nobody volunteered to produce a bugfix release for
1.5.2 (and despite that Guido started asking for volunteers about 6 months
after 1.5.2 was released -- no response), none of those fixes do 1.5.2 users
any good.  The only advice they get when they hit a 1.5.2 bug is "so
upgrade -- or pay someone for the pain of investigation and backporting".

If you're serious about holding on to 2.1, talk someone into starting work
on 2.1.3 now.  It will already be more difficult for them than it would have
been had they started to produce 2.1.3 right after 2.1.2 was released.  Let
a few more months pass, and the odds of another 2.1 bugfix release will be
down with the odds of a new 1.5.2 bugfix release.

If you're picturing individual patches for only those bugs you consider
"serious", the distribution, integration, and support problems will kill
that in practice.  That is, very few will agree to hunt down and apply
random patches to an unsupported product, and those who do will eventually
hit bugs unique to the specific combination of patches they applied.
Keeping the 2.1.x series alive is a real solution to all that too.

reality-check-ly y'rs  - tim




From drgergl at mindspring.com  Sat Mar  2 10:02:41 2002
From: drgergl at mindspring.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:02:41 -0800
Subject: Profiling extensions
Message-ID: <a5qpi0$bdv$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

[Linux, python 2.1]
Hi All,


I've got a Boostified C++ class that I'm using from Python.  The class
supports pickling, but restoring things from pickles seems to be really,
really slow.  I figured that I'd profile the code and find out where the
time is being spent, but I ran into a wall.

I built both my extension modules and python itself with -pg.  Running a
test case and looking at the gprof output only shows me numbers for the
python interpreter itself.  This is none too edifying.

So, my question is: is there any way to trick gprof (or prof, I don't much
care) into gathering data for the extension modules as well as the
interpreter?

Thanks,
-greg





From beppu at ax9.org  Mon Mar 11 03:06:49 2002
From: beppu at ax9.org (John Beppu)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:06:49 -0800
Subject: Python Equivalent of Perl's Safe module?
Message-ID: <20020311080649.GA25930@Ax9.org>

Hello, I was wondering if there was a Python equivalent of Perl's Safe
module.  Here is the beginning of the man page for Perl's Safe.


    NAME
	Safe - Compile and execute code in restricted compartments

    SYNOPSIS
	  use Safe;

	  $compartment = new Safe;

	  $compartment->permit(qw(time sort :browse));

	  $result = $compartment->reval($unsafe_code);


The full documentation for the Safe module can be found at:
http://perldoc.com/perl5.6.1/lib/Safe.html
Any help finding such a module for Python would be appreciated.




From jfhamilt at usgs.gov  Mon Mar  4 18:22:34 2002
From: jfhamilt at usgs.gov (jfhamilt at usgs.gov)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:22:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XMODEM Module for Python
Message-ID: <a60vjp$2sn$1@hqsun2.er.usgs.gov>

Hi.

I am wiriting a program that retrieves and manipulates data from a variety 
of sensor / data recorder hardware.  One of these types of equipment 
requires the use of XMODEM to transfer the data file.  I'd like to avoid 
having to write my own XMODEM code, so I was wondering if anyone knew if 
there was a python XMODEM module available anywhere?

Thanks.

Jeff Hamilton




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 31 14:17:20 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:17:20 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <a87ljh$ofu$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEGEOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Aahz]
> But what do you think of changing bool() to truth()?

Whatever Guido tells me to think <wink>.  Before then, I think "bool"
usually reads better, as it's less a strain to use as either adjective or
noun.  Contrast, e.g.,

    isatty returns bool
    isatty returns a bool
    isatty returns a bool value

with

    isatty returns truth
    isatty returns a truth
    isatty returns a truth value

After reading "isatty returns a truth", I'm left wondering which specific
truth it returns, and whether I'd agree with it <wink>.

Strangely enough, even today:

>>> print os.isatty.__doc__
isatty(fd) -> Boolean
Return true if the file descriptor 'fd' is an open file descriptor
connected to the slave end of a terminal.
>>>

    isatty(fd) -> truth

doesn't read poorly, though.




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sat Mar 30 08:40:17 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:40:17 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1017469127.15681.python-list@python.org>
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017469127.15681.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203301456390.16587-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org>
> 
> >     Dear reviewers:
> > 
> >     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
> >     following three issues:
> > 
> >     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

It seems that this is already decided as Guido is the author and also the
only one who accepts PEPs.

> >     The standard bool type can also serve as a way to force a value to
> >     be interpreted as a Boolean, which can be used to normalize
> >     Boolean values.  Writing bool(x) is much clearer than "not not x"
> >     and much more concise than
> >         if x:
> >             return 1
> >         else:
> >             return 0

This one does not convince me at all as one could always define

  bool = lambda x: not not x

and I would never write such a verbose code fragment as above just to
return whether x is false or true. However, using constructs like

  if x:
     ...

  while x:
     ...

for x being a sequence or dictionary can be very useful and efficient.

In future (Python 2.>=3, >3), are these constructs valid or must they
be replaced with  

  while bool(x):
    ...

? :(


Ka-Ping Yee has raised related conserns in

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-March/020893.html

that never got a proper answer from Guido nor others.

So, I am (-1)*0 on this PEP. 

-1 --- I have succesfully programmed in Python without needing the bool
function and I share Ka-Ping's concerns about Python future. To me the
only reasonable point in rationale seems to be that "other languages have
or will have boolean". That also sounds quite weak to me --- other
languages have many useful concepts that would be more worth for 
introducing to Python than this boolean concept.

0  --- this PEP will be hardly rejected, it seems to me.

Regards,
	Pearu



From ark at research.att.com  Sat Mar 30 11:19:31 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:19:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <01b401c1d806$378aa100$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
	(david.abrahams@rcn.com)
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net><008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com><200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net><014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com><200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <yu991ye2xcsi.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <01b401c1d806$378aa100$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <200203301619.g2UGJVR13515@europa.research.att.com>

David> Even that won't work, because of the different repr/str behavior... one
David> reason I don't like the inheritance relationship.

Ah -- hadn't thought of that.






From opengeometry at NOSPAM.yahoo.ca  Mon Mar  4 19:09:59 2002
From: opengeometry at NOSPAM.yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 00:09:59 GMT
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <4abd9ce7.0203041356.39491249@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a612cc$apvts$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

damien  morton <morton at dennisinter.com> wrote:
> Have you looked at mg.
> Its written in C, but useable from the unix command line.
> http://www.mds.rmit.edu.au/mg/

Thanks Damien!

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPU cluster, NAS, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Tin


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar 18 19:34:00 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:34:00 -0800
Subject: A question about generators
References: <mailman.1016494109.20996.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-A2A8BF.16340018032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1016494109.20996.python-list at python.org>,
 "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:

> > I have an application where I think either an iterator or a 
> > generator would
> > be ideal, but I have to be able to reset whichever I use.  The paper
> > "What's New in Python 2.2" says that there's no way to reset 
> > an iterator,
> > so that's out.  Is there a straight-forward way to reset a generator,
> > though?
> 
> That's not actually correct. There is no general way to reset and iterator
> or generator, but you can make a custom iterator or generator that can be
> reset.

You could create the generator inside some larger scope, and communicate 
with it by changing variables in that scope.  Ok, actually it's not 
possible to change a variable from outside that variable's scope (why??) 
but it is possible to have a list or dictionary within a scope and 
change one of its cells.

Or you can make a new generator every time you would want to reset it.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From aahzpy at panix.com  Tue Mar 12 08:48:04 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 08:48:04 -0500
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <roy-59D1B0.07392212032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6l0uk$6ik$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <roy-59D1B0.07392212032002 at news1.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>
>I've got one guy I work with you insists python isn't OO for exactly one 
>reason: because it doesn't implement private variables.

Sure it does, it just implements them through convention rather than
through the language.  And it can be proven that e.g. C++ really doesn't
have private variables.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>          http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar  1 01:39:42 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 15:39:42 +0900
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Please note, you are correct---I missed the main point.  I'm not going
to address that point-by-point, unless you ask.  However, it's easy
enough to paraphrase my comments to apply to "are we going to mandate
UTF-8 for all source code?".  The following is a rough counter-
proposal to handle the main issues, framed correctly.

>>>>> "Martin" == Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:

    Martin> [U]nder the proposed change, Python would refuse to accept
    Martin> source code if it is not UTF-8 encoded. In turn, code that
    Martin> has a euc-jp comment in it and is now happily accepted as
    Martin> source code in the current Python programming language
    Martin> would be rejected.

Fine with me for Elisp.  We don't have satisfactory UTF-8 support yet,
but will soon.  After that there will be no excuses for us, since the
editor is the interpreter.

This _is_ the direction we're heading.  Emacs treats Lisp files the
same as any other on initial loading, so we already have hooks in
place that could be used to translate.  The point is that if XEmacs
didn't accept the encoding of a Lisp file, it would be on the user-
provided codec to get it right.  It's not our problem (except to the
extent that we would of course provide such codecs).  We're currently
working to make codecs available to users in a convenient, consistent
way--and Python has the advantage that that part is done!

Such a hook probably would be something new in Python, but I don't see
that it would be terribly difficult to implement.

    Martin> Will you reject a source module just because it contains a
    Martin> latin-1 comment?

    >> That depends.  Somebody is going to run it through the
    >> converter; it's just a question of whether it's me, or the
    >> submitter.

    Martin> 'you' in this case isn't the maintainer of a software
    Martin> package; it is the Python source code parser...

Same thing either way, if you add the preprocessing hook.

IMO, the Python source code parser should never see any text data[1]
that is not UTF-8 encoded.  If you want to submit Python programs to
the parser that are not UTF-8 encoded, then it is your responsibility
as the programmer to make sure they get translated into UTF-8 (eg, by
the preprocessing hook) before the interpreter proper ever sees them.

Note that the Python language doesn't need to specify at all what's
allowed on the preprocessing hook.  It can be a Perl-to-Python
translator, for all I care.  You simply say "if the parser doesn't
accept it when run `python --skip-preprocessing-hook', it's not valid
Python."  No more problem.  From the user's point of view, in everyday
operation it's basically the same as a Python which accepts his
favorite encoding.  From your point of view, the interpreter is
invulnerable to coding issues.  Even if you choose to support complex
(eg, autorecognizing[2]) codecs on the pre-processing hook as part of
the Python library, bugs are more easily localized.

Since the preprocessing-hook would be callable from Python, it would
be easy to run it as a separate program, and require the users to send
the output of that as the bug report.

The final benefit is that in multilingual environments it makes use of
UTF-8 a lot more attractive to the users.  But those are exactly the
environments where coding cookies will be a massive pain for Python to
support them, because people will forever be copying the top matter
from German files into Polish files and forgetting to adjust the
cookie, etc.


Footnotes: 
[1]  Ie, Python language or character text.  It might be convenient to
have an octet-string primitive data type, in which you could put
EUC-encoded Japanese or Java byte codes.  However, the Python
interpreter would never do anything with them except (1) pass them
whole as arguments or variable values, (2) extract slices, and (3)
extract individual octets as an integral (but non-character) type.
(Roughly speaking.  There might be other operations that "base Python"
should implement, like applying codecs.)

[2]  But I recommend against this.  Don't offer support for such; it's
a time and effort sink, for little return.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Mar  5 18:01:05 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 18:01:05 -0500
Subject: Pyhon and PIL
In-Reply-To: <ydbh8.4830$TU3.128876@news4.ulv.nextra.no>
References: <ydbh8.4830$TU3.128876@news4.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <oqbse2wrf2.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[Olav Viken]

> I'm using Python Imaging Library (PIL) to convert a lot bmp-files from
> color to monochrome images.  This works, but all images are dithered
> (grayscale),

This is not really dithering.  Dithering is a way to trade spatial resolution
in favour of color resolution, by making many neighbouring pixels to use
different colours from a limited set, but with the average of these colours
approximately being the wanted one.

> what I want is to set "all colors (except white) to black".

> import Image
> im = Image.open("yellow.bmp")
> im = im.convert("1", dither=Image.NONE)
> im.save("yellow.bmp")

Maybe this would work?

    import Image
    Image.open('yellow.bmp').convert('L').point(255*[0] + [255]) \
        .convert('1').save('yellow.bmp')

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 20:38:01 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 20:38:01 -0500
Subject: Cannot find what I'm sure is a simple command... please help.
References: <3ca7978b.251291804@mammoth.usenet-access.com> <a886fp$sq1$1@panix1.panix.com> <uafaoipgvj7c96@news.supernews.com> <3ca7b638.259145474@mammoth.usenet-access.com>
Message-ID: <a88dlp$csj$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3ca7b638.259145474 at mammoth.usenet-access.com>,
A. Jones <netzapper at magicstar.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500, "John Roth"
><johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>If you read the file into a list using readlines(), you can then
>>access each line by the index into the list. Unfortunately, that
>>doesn't get you one line without reading the entire file up to
>>that point...
>
>Right, I knew I could do that.  However, when I did that, it causes a
>meltdown when I index from that list, owing to the large size of the
>file (it's a database, with each entry on a separate line, but with an
>arbitrary line size).

Get a real database.  Then you can retrieve an arbitrary record.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Mar  3 16:36:48 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:36:48 -0800
Subject: Newbie question
References: <3c810efa.475638531@mammoth.usenet-access.com> <m3it8dwfcu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a5u5c4$aau9b$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" 
> If you want to output a string in Python source format, but using
> triple quotes, I believe you have to implement this yourself.
> 

[ducking...;-)]

>>> print '''"""%s"""''' % "Spam & Eggs!"
"""Spam & Eggs!"""


-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Mar 15 21:38:08 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 02:38:08 +0000
Subject: pythonic way of depth first and breadth first tree iterators
References: <mailman.1016242886.1030.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3mb59ugde1vho8i7fk15h7e8uo0j2jnf3g@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:37:59 -0500, Dave Reed <dreed at capital.edu> wrote:

>
>We're planning to use Python in our CS1 and CS2 courses next year so
>I'm beginning to think about the issues for these courses.
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typeiter.html states:
>
>  If a container supports different types of iteration, additional
>  methods can be provided to specifically request iterators for those
>  iteration types. (An example of an object supporting multiple forms
>  of iteration would be a tree structure which supports both
>  breadth-first and depth-first traversal.)
>
>I don't quite understand exatly what that is saying - what would be
>the pythonic way of defining/calling separate breadth first and depth
>first iterators for a binary tree class - i.e., is there a way to
>indicate which method to use when you make the call to iter() so that
>I could do something like: for node in tree('depth'):
>
>and
>
>for node in tree('breadth'):
>
>Or is that just implying that I can make a depth first class iterator
>class and breadth first iterator class that both support the
>corresponding next() method and do something like:
>
>d = DepthIter(tree) 
>for node in d:
>
>where DepthIter is a class that takes a tree as a parameter to its
>constructor and has a next() method that returns the nodes in a depth
>first manner. And similarly, write a BreadthIter class?
>
>Thanks,
>Dave

The standard way to define an iterator is via

def __iter__(self):
    <whatever>

and THIS iterator is what is used in the for loop, e.g

for node in tree:
    <whatever>

But there are classes(trees, dictionaries, etc.) where more than one
iterator (more than one to traverse it) is useful.

In the example of a tree the __iter__ could be the breadth-first
traversal and then you could code ANOTHER iterator, e.g.

def depth_first(self):
    <whatever>

To use this second iterator, you just do

for node in tree.depth_first():
    <whatever>

Hope it helps.

Best regards,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Mon Mar 18 13:53:48 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:48 -0800
Subject: bug reporting
References: <mailman.1016463808.6406.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a74gvs.3vsf1v9.1@kserver.org>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:57:51 -0500, "Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016463808.6406.python-list at python.org>:

> >Yes, that is sort of what I am hoping for, when I post stuff here. I've
> >gotten a lot of "submit it as a bug report" responses, more recently.
> >Anyhow, the one in the thread you continued this from...I have now
> >submitted it as a bug report. However, as I continue to work on this
> >problem (sort of trying to see if I can fix it or at least see if I can
> >understand what's causing it), I'm not so sure it will end up to be a bug
> >report after all. It may end up to be a problem in my own code.  :/
> 
> I ended  up posting my issue up to the tutor list, where Danny Yoo picked
> it up and did the kind of analysis I wouldn't know how to undertake.
> 
> I know you are active there - so assumedly you saw it.  

Well, I'm not having time to read all of the mail that comes in under that
list right now (nor, in fact for any of the lists I'm currently subscribed
to), so once in a while I look at the subject lines and see if something
interests me. So, actually, I did miss your post. I will go back this
afternoon and look for it. Thanks.

> Danny has helped
> me before, and I was actually figuring I might get his attention to the 
> problem by posting on tutor. 

Danny is amazing. Not only does he have a thorough understanding that far
exceeds my own, he can actually explain stuff, and takes the time and
trouble to do a full analysis of your question. He must have a clone? Or
else he is not human, because he certainly doesn't sleep!

> Must admit some perverse satisfaction in uncovering something
> that perhaps has some significance. Bit of a Pythonic
> coming of age.

;) :D

> And thanks, Danny.

Ditto.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Mar 27 10:56:45 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:56:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <15521.50103.968819.131319@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270752550.19847-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     >> I was wondering if there is an easy way to instrument Python code
[snip]
> Or, in 2.2, the new hotshot module, which is a lot more efficient at
> profiling than the profile module.

The hotshot module doesn't appear to have any documentation yet. There is
a unit test that's kinda confusing; below is a simplification of how to
use the module:

import hotshot, os
import hotshot.log
from hotshot.log import ENTER, EXIT, LINE

WHAT_NAMES = {ENTER:'ENTER',EXIT:'EXIT',LINE:'LINE'}

def ProfIt(callable):
    outf = 'out.temp'
    prof = hotshot.Profile(outf, 1, 1)
    prof.runcall(callable)
    prof.close()

    log = hotshot.log.LogReader(outf)
    print 'What\tFunc (where)\ttDelta'
    for event in log:
        what, (filename, lineno, funcname), tdelta = event
        print '%s\t%s (%s:%d)\t%d' % (WHAT_NAMES[what], funcname,
                                      filename, lineno, tdelta)

    os.remove(outf)

def f():
    y = 2
    x = 1
def g():
    f()

ProfIt(g)

The output from this is:

What    Func (where)    tDelta
ENTER   g (hot.py:24)   59
LINE    g (hot.py:24)   12
LINE    g (hot.py:25)   7
ENTER   f (hot.py:21)   21
LINE    f (hot.py:21)   6
LINE    f (hot.py:22)   6
LINE    f (hot.py:23)   7
EXIT    f (hot.py:21)   8
EXIT    g (hot.py:24)   11

My question for Skip: is there no good way to profile a multithreaded
application?

-Dave




From jonathan at onegoodidea.com  Thu Mar  7 07:31:19 2002
From: jonathan at onegoodidea.com (Jonathan Hogg)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:31:19 +0000
Subject: fork and thread and signal... oooooops
References: <87550ef1.0203050846.2166835e@posting.google.com> <lJph8.56$_Z4.249@news.hananet.net> <mailman.1015444393.19258.python-list@python.org> <MeIh8.104$_Z4.397@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <B8AD0E17.5FBD%jonathan@onegoodidea.com>

On 7/3/2002 11:46, in article MeIh8.104$_Z4.397 at news.hananet.net, "Jonathan
Gardner" <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> wrote:

> Shell is really good for writing things like init scripts. All the other
> init scripts are written with shell. Python just doesn't compare to shell
> when all you want to do is start or stop or send signals to a process.
> That's what shell was built for. Writing an init script in Python makes
> about as much sense as writing your init script in Tcl or C++.

This isn't much of an argument. Python is a great deal more capable than sh
and contains much of the equipment that you'd need to invoke subtools for
with sh (grep, sed, test, kill, etc.).

The main reason why one wouldn't want to write an init script in Python is
that you might not have Python available when you need it most. A statically
linked 'sh' (and the useful subtools) residing on the boot volume is a
standard feature of any UNIX (or should be).

If pretty much everything else fails, you generally know that you can get to
a single user prompt and run shell scripts. If you've severely mangled some
library installations your Python may very well be toast - or it may be on a
file system that just got hosed.

Of course this is old-skool sysadmin. These days I guess you just boot from
the emergency CD and press the repair button or something ;-)

Jonathan



From uwe at rocksport.de  Wed Mar 27 05:06:15 2002
From: uwe at rocksport.de (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:06:15 GMT
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com> <a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org> <a7qps1$7u2s9$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <3CA0FCE8.8D8FE0D7@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7s5in$80na7$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:


| Uwe Schmitt wrote:

|> Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
|>
|> | That may be the case, but Jeff brought up some good points.  It looks odd
|> | to create a window in this fashion (it looks procedural rather than OO).  A
|> | more typical approach would be something like:
|>
|> I know what you mean, but I'd like to write a general procedure
|> which generates an input/output mask based on a relational database
|> describption. And this mask may appear in a wxFrame *or* a wxDialog.
|> So I use the "parent" of the mask as a parameter of my function...

| Then create your controls on a wxPanel, and then add that panel to either your
| frame or your dialog.  The wxPanel will have the added benefit that, even in a
| frame, it will handle tabbing between controls, etc, correctly.

Hi Cliff, Hi Jeff,

thanks for your suggestions. As I am quite new to wxPython, I did
not know the class wxPanel. 

Greetings, Uwe



-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 15:15:15 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:15:15 -0500
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C8BBED3.D947EE5E@engcorp.com>

phil hunt wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:21:39 GMT, Gerson Kurz <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote:
> >
> >!0,1.!1,1.!2,1.!3,1.,.@?0.!4,?0.!0,?1.~4,?0.!1,?4.~2,?3.!5,?2.A5,10.-5
> >
> >will print the first ten fibonacci numbers.
> 
> I wonder what it does in Perl?

Obviously it's a multithreading web server.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 09:33:53 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 09:33:53 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <slrnaac5uf.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a876oh$rmc$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnaac5uf.2gs.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>That *is* a valid reason. However, it must be decided whether 
>Python's primary goal is to be easy to learn or easy to use.

It must?  Much of why I love Python so much is because it's *both*.  By
using lots of simple, orthogonal constructs, Python manages that unusual
feat.  That's the main reason I was (and am) unhappy with the "print >>"
proposal, but on the whole, I can't argue with Guido's ability to find
solutions that promote the goals of both "easy learn" and "easy use".

I happen to think that adding a truth type (I like the suggestion of
"truth" over "bool") does that.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Sat Mar 16 17:36:22 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:36:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <1016327182.366474@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Paul F. Dubois (dubois at users.sourceforge.net) wrote:
: I am trying to get Python 2.2 to compile on HP-UX B.10.20. I get a set of
: missing externals with names PyThread_something. I need threads so I don't
: want to turn them off. Is there a package I need to install first? Or some
: other hint about what to do?

I posted recently regarding Python 2.2 and HP-UX 10.2.  See the Subject
"HP-UX 10.2 deprecated"?   Quoting from there:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To determine if _POSIX_THREADS is defined in unistd.h, "configure" runs the
C preprocessor on a file with the contents:

#include <unistd.h>
     #ifdef _POSIX_THREADS
     yes
     #endif

Unfortunately, with the C preprocessor invocation used by ./configure, the
indented #ifdef is not recognized, which results in the #ifdef construct
being mindlessly echoed, which is erroneously interpreted as the answer
"yes".  This causes _POSIX_THREADS to not be defined in pyconfig.h,
resulting in a bunch of undefined thread-related functions at link time.

When I removed the indentation from the above #ifdef construct, the "make"
of the executable was successful.  Unfortunately, "make test" did not pass.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

An alternative to editing "configure" is to run:

    CC='cc -Ae' ./configure

In either case, though, "make test" fails at test_threads with:

    test_thread
    *** Termination signal 14

That was where I got stuck, and I'm *still* stuck.

On the other hand, I recall (sort of) someone posting after I did who
successfully built Python 2.2 on HP-UX 10.2 by installing gcc.
Unfortunately, I don't remember the Subject or the details.

If you do find a recipe for getting it to work, please post it!


Greg


From scott.l.hathaway at lmco.com  Tue Mar 26 11:45:00 2002
From: scott.l.hathaway at lmco.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:45:00 -0600
Subject: a website information gathering script
References: <3C9B33FA.3D853D65@lmco.com> <a7iorg$pg6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3CA0A58C.18800669@lmco.com>

Thanks to both of you for your help!  I will improve teh script when I have some time.

Scott

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:39:06 -0600, Scott Hathaway <scott.l.hathaway at lmco.com> wrote:
>
> >I have a simple python script which gathers information about a website
> >and produces an html report about what it finds.  The way it works is
> >very clunky and I would appreciate some feedback and help improving it.
> >
> >http://www.hcsprogramming.com/downloads/index.html
> >
> Unless you know that the format of your files is more restricted than their
> types require, your criterion for finding a file reference is going to
> get spurious hits (of course the other side is you can't statically find
> strings that don't exist until run time either, when it comes to program sources).
>
> E.g., for HTML you could do a much better job by using the HTMLParser module.
> UIAM it also normalizes things to lower case for you, besides letting you
> skip commented-out references and similar character sequences in
> the data part. And since the parser makes it easy to get hrefs, you could
> split and check #-references and definitions too.
>
> The other files should really be parsed too, if you want to avoid spurious
> matches.
>
> As Emile pointed out, concatenating strings with '+' is relatively expensive,
> and one way of doing it more cheaply is to put the pieces in a list and later
> join them. You can do that in a style that looks similar to what you did, but
> is a lot more efficient.
>
> Note that strings separated by white space are concatenated by the compiler,
> and in a () or [] context that white space can include EOLs, so you can mix
> string fragments and expressions e.g., like this:
>
>  >>> x= '<example>'
>  >>> a = [
>  ...     '123'
>  ...     '456'
>  ...     '\n', x*2 , '\n'
>  ...     'abc'
>  ...     'def'
>  ... ]
>  >>> a
>  ['123456\n', '<example><example>', '\nabcdef']
>
> Notice that 'a' wound up a list of _3_ strings here,
> and note the commas isolating the x*2 expression.
>
>  >>> print ''.join(a)
>  123456
>  <example><example>
>  abcdef
>  >>> a += ['\nYou can add this way too, for ', x[1:-1], '.']
>  >>> print ''.join(a)
>  123456
>  <example><example>
>  abcdef
>  You can add this way too, for example.
>  >>> a += [
>  ... '\nOr'
>  ...   ' this'
>  ...     ' way'
>  ...       '\n(noting that indent is ignored inside () or [].' ]
>  >>> print ''.join(a)
>  123456
>  <example><example>
>  abcdef
>  You can add this way too, for example.
>  Or this way
>  (noting that indent is ignored inside () or [].
>  >>>
>
> Of course, you can arrange pieces to suit, but the point
> is that it needn't be expensive to write a mix of string fragments
> and expressions in a sequence, and you can lay it out in
> multiple lines of source without a += 'next string piece' expense
> at every line (noting that the similar looking
>     a += ['a string ',foo(),' more']
> is comparatively cheap).
>
> Triple quotes of course are good for defining lines without using '\n',
> and you can plug in pieces symbolically from a directory:
>
>  >>> b = """<h2>%(bigText)s</h2>
>  ... <font color="red">%(redText)s</font>
>  ... etc...
>  ... """
>  >>> stuff = {'bigText':'Should be big', 'redText':'Should be red'}
>  >>> b % stuff
>  '<h2>Should be big</h2>\n<font color="red">Should be red</font>\netc...\n'
>  >>> print b % stuff
>  <h2>Should be big</h2>
>  <font color="red">Should be red</font>
>  etc...
>
> You can also use vars() in place of stuff to pick up symbols
> from the local or other dictionaries.
>
> You might also want to consider using dictionaries for some
> sets of things instead of lists.
>
> To enhance the directory walker, you could give it globbing
> and excluding and optional recursion controls. Perhaps make
> it a class meant to be subclassed like HTMLParse, feeding it
> glob strings and having it call convenient methods.
>
> BTW, I'd try to avoid useless re-computation, as in putting
> ".tolower()" on stuff that's already guaranteed lower case
> by previous code. And  file = str(file) looks like a no-op
> in its context. Also, if you have a series of mutually
> exclusive if conditions, making the if's after the first
> into elif's will avoid executing tests after one succeeds.
>
> BTW2, all those .endswith() tests would succeed on file names
> without extensions but having the given suffix. You could fix
> it, but Emile's version avoids that by splitting on '.' so you
> gain two ways ;-)
>
> That enough for this go ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter



From python at rcn.com  Tue Mar  5 22:07:38 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:07:38 -0500
Subject: Why KeyError ???
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Ozren Lasic" <ozren_lasic at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.setdefaultencoding("cp1250")
> >>> a = "\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7" # Croatian characters
> >>> b = unicode(a)
> >>> b
> u'\xe7\u0110\u017a\u2020\xa7'
> >>> c = {}
> >>> c[a] = 1
> >>> c[b]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> KeyError: &#353;&#273;&#269;&#263;&#382;
> >>> a == b
> 1

Hmm.  I don't get the same identity check results as you do:
>>> a = '\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7'
>>> b = unicode(a,'cp1250')
>>> a is b
0


Raymond Hettinger




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 27 18:44:59 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 18:44:59 -0500
Subject: thread-safe swap
References: <833cyl3gfe.fsf_-_@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <a7tlhr$js5$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <833cyl3gfe.fsf_-_ at panacea.canonical.org>,
Kragen Sitaker  <kragen at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Someone recommended using the idiom
>
>    spam, eggs = eggs, spam
>
>to get a thread-safe swap.  Does this really work?

Not really.  IIRC, there are some specific circumstances where it does
work, but better to protect it with an RLock().  OTOH, it's safe if spam
and eggs are both local.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From grante at visi.com  Wed Mar  6 15:03:21 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:03:21 GMT
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
References: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706@ruti.visi.com>

In article <a65pkr$235o$1 at news.idiom.com>, Jim Dennis wrote:

>  I'm trying to figure how to write a daemon that will
>  efficiently wait for activity on any of several file and/or
>  socket descriptors.

[...]

>  Unfortunately it continually outputs.  I don't understand why
>  if there's no more data at the end of the file.  Is my read()
>  not pushing my file position all the way to the EOF?  It's as
>  though there's *always* data available on that file descriptor.

You've misunderstood what select() is telling you.  When select
returns a read fd, that doesn't mean there's data available. It
means that a read() call on that fd will not block.  A read()
call on a regular file's fd never blocks: it always returns
immediately with data or with EOF.  Therefore, select() will
always return a read fd immediately for a regular file.

IOW, select() is supported for regular files, but the semantics
aren't very useful.

>  This seems to contradict the documentation:
> 
> Wait until one or more file descriptors are ready for some kind
> of I/O.

"ready for some kind of I/O" means that the read() or write()
call will not block.  In the case of a read fd it doesn't imply
that there is data available.

>  Is this a bug?  I'm using Python2.2 as packaged by Debian (unstable)
>  on a Debian GNU/Linux system  (what a surprise, a Debian package 
>  on a Debian system!) under 2.4.9 SMP kernel).

Probably -- in the sense that the documenation was not
sufficient to prevent a surprise.  Not in the sense that the
select() call doesn't do what the designers intended.

>  Would poll() be a better choice?  The __doc__ for that is a bit
>  terse.

IIRC, poll() will do the same thing.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is this "BOOZE"?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 11:45:15 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:45:15 +0000
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3768B.32BB6AC9@ccvcorp.com> <slrnaa7e6a.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3C981.2433ECD7@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa96gr.gif.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:55:13 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>
>
>phil hunt wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:01:15 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >I disagree.  I'm just as happy that Python doesn't try to guess what would be a
>> >suitable "default" value for non-existent keys.
>>
>> The default value should always be None.
>>
>> None should act like 0 or "" or [] or {} where appropriate, i.e.:
>>
>>    None + 1 --> 1
>>    None + "x" --> "x"
>>    None * 4 --> 0
>>    None + ['x'] --> ['x']
>>    None + {2:3} --> {2:3}
>
>I strongly disagree with that.  Next thing you know, you'll be saying that (3 +
>'one' ) should evaluate to 4. 

Not at all.

Actually, I think catenation and addition should have separate 
operators, so:

   [1,2] & [3,4] --> [1,2,3,4]

   [1,2] + [3,4] --> [4,6]

>> >It seems to me to be entirely
>> >consistent with the philosophy of "explicit is better than implicit".
>>
>> But that isn't the philosophy of any high level langauge. In fact,
>> the more high level any language is, the more implicit things are.
>> And I would argue that's a pretty good definition of what a high
>> level language is.
>
>I disagree with your conception of high level language.  A high level language hides
>unnecessary details, but I don't think that conversion between different data types
>is an unnecessary detail.  

So would you prefer:

   float(2) + 3.14

to:

   2 + 3.14

?


>High level means that a logical step can be done in one
>or two lines of code,

Define "logical step".

> not that it does magic transmutations in the background.

Define "magic transmutations". Y'know, the transmutation between 
Python source and machine code is rather complex *already*.

>There's a large class of cases where the interpreter, in trying to "do the right
>thing", is as likely to guess wrongly as it is to guess right.

This is only true if what the interpreter will do is not cleanly 
defined for the programmer.

>  If you want an
>interpreter that guesses anyhow, use Perl.

Yuck.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sun Mar  3 15:05:45 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:05:45 -0500
Subject: C/C++ to Python translater
References: <5e8bd451.0203011049.5d12d3a2@posting.google.com> <3C811653.871C5BEF@tds.net> <a5rcr0$6lj$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C8207F6.8000008@rdg.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <a5tvc0$40h$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

No thanks, I was looking for a C++ to Python translator... ;-)

"Alex Willmer" <siu99aw at rdg.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3C8207F6.8000008 at rdg.ac.uk...
> David Abrahams wrote:
> > "Edward K. Ream" <edream at tds.net> wrote in message
> > news:3C811653.871C5BEF at tds.net...
> >
> >>leo.py contains a script called c2py.py that I have used to translate
> >>all my C++ code to Python.  It does about 80% of the work and is mostly
> >>intended to be run from inside Leo.  IIRC there is another entry in
> >>c2py.py script to translate "exterior" files and this can be run from
> >>idle, say.  Munging source to Python is actually remarkably easy to do.
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > Biggest problem I'm having is that I can't find it.
> > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/leo/leo-1.0.zip doesn't contain a
file
> > called c2py.py. Did you have something else in mind?
> >
>
> Perhaps this is what you're looking for?
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-January/079454.html
>
> Regards
>
> Alex
>
>




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Mar 19 18:28:57 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 18:28:57 -0500
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016168907.4720.python-list@python.org> <USnk8.25666$N7.5384674@ruti.visi.com> <uk7sdzqem.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <_kqk8.25881$N7.5410299@ruti.visi.com> <ubsdpzd97.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <83elihknoz.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <upu206ssm.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Kragen Sitaker <kragen at pobox.com> writes:

> Signals fit into this rather poorly, but they do interrupt select()
> and cause the appropriate handler to run, which is generally what you
> need.

True, but signals can be problematic in multi-threaded applications (I
think that was the original context at least - if not, it's still a
point :-)) and also if there's any chance the signal might interrupt
some other I/O operation than the select, since while many are
restartable, others are not.

But definitely, signaling to break a select() is certainly another
possibility in some cases under Unix.

> But all of those approaches are really ways to try to work around the
> fact that WaitForMultipleObjects (sp?) only works on signaling of
> event objects.  With Unix native functions, I'd just define an extra
> file descriptor, and wait on that file descriptor along with the file
> descriptors related to the sockets.  To shut it down, just signal the
> special file descriptor.

As long as you can create a file descriptor that you can signal at
will, that's cool.  That's the same approach as listening on an extra
port as has been mentioned, or using a socketpair() as you comment
below.

But it should be noted that WaitForMultipleObjects can wait on more
than event objects.  It's documented to work for the following
objects:

   Change notification 
   Console input 
   Event 
   Job 
   Mutex 
   Process 
   Semaphore 
   Thread 
   Waitable timer 

For example, using a thread object signals when the thread terminates.
Same for process.  Event/Mutex/Semaphore are obvious and so on.  The
event is just a way that other types can be tied in if they can
trigger a thread.  So it's up to various kernel objects if they
support the notion of a signaled and unsignaled state, and if so, they
can be included in the call.

So in some ways I'd consider it more generic than just waiting for
read/write/exception on file handles (or device handles).  But to
address your next point you could turn it around and say that making
everything a device handle properly is even more generic.  Of course,
Unix didn't really follow through fully or we wouldn't want to
interrupt a select outside of the handles it was waiting on.

Particularly with constructs added on later (e.g., semaphores), they
don't really match the file descriptor model, at least not the last
time I used them.  E.g., you had to use sem_wait to wait for a
semaphore, not include it in a select list, so you have a similar
problem as to how to wait for both events simultaneously.

> I think the difference is just in how you look at things.

Oh, I certainly wasn't trying to make one system sound better than the
other.  I do think it's fair to say that the select() model is not
quite generic enough to have been found portable across the systems,
since it requires a specific underlying implementation along the Unix
device driver lines, so can be hard to reproduce on systems that don't
follow that model.  Thus the MS decision to support it for sockets,
but not try to overlay it on top of their asynchronous I/O model for
files.  But there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

> > It's interesting that all of these approaches do have one thing in
> > common - they tend not to be portable.
> 
> Does Winsock not have socketpair()?  My Win32 API references are all
> in another state.

Don't believe so.  Probably because I believe that socketpair() is
typically implemented (or limited to) UNIX domain sockets.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Mar 11 20:12:01 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 20:12:01 -0500
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net> <slrna8p159.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E@engcorp.com> <924j8.19297$N7.4387774@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <u1yeqzj1a.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> Ya know, I've actually read the transcript of that interview.
> He never claimed to have invented the Internet, only to have
> been responsible for funding it.

Which, BTW, was more truth than not.  When in Congress, Gore was very
important to the funding at the time (primarily, I believe, to NSF).
The whole "father of the internet" thing clearly got blown up a bit,
but for those of us working on the backbones at the time, he really
was a big guy in our camp.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From roy at panix.com  Sat Mar  9 09:02:55 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:02:55 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <87henqe4dy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <roy-980AE9.09025509032002@news1.panix.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>     Roy> Having the core language change from version to version just
>     Roy> makes it worse, as we discover imcompatabilities between
>     Roy> whatever version I'm using to develop on and whateve they're
>     Roy> running on their boxes.
> 
> So you standardize locally.

It's one thing to say "so you standardize locally", but the fact is, even 
requiring just that is an impediment to adoption.  A typical scenario goes 
like this:

Me: "Hey guys, I wrote a great new program, called foo.py.  It's in CVS, 
under tools."

Co-worker: "Neat, but when I go to run it, I get a syntax error"

Me: "Let me see.... Oh, you've got python 1.5.2!  Do you have any idea how 
old that is?  You need to upgrade to 2.1.2"

Co-worker: "Oh, I don't have the time to do that.  Nice looking tool, but I 
guess I'll have to pass, thanks".

If there was management buy-in, there might be a chance of declaring "thou 
shalt install python 2.1.2 on all development machines", but there's no 
management buy-in.  In fact, management sort of humors me by letting me 
waste my time playing with Python as long as I get my "real work" done.

Quite reasonably, my boss wants to know what the "business case" is for the 
group adopting python.  The fact that python is cool and wonderful and perl 
sucks eggs doesn't go very far in the face of the fact that perl tends to 
be a lot more portable (or at least is percieved to be).  The 1000's of 
lines of production perl code I've written run without a hitch on 
everybody's machine using whatever version of perl happened to come with 
their box.

And, I think there lies the real problem.  Python is facing an uphill 
battle for acceptance by the business community.  Anything that increases 
the perception (true or false) that python is difficult to support makes it 
just that much harder to get it accepted.  Technical arguments 
notwithstanding, frequent changes to the core language syntax sure increase 
the perception that it's a risky language on which to risk the success of 
your business.


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 29 10:31:28 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:31:28 GMT
Subject: Function problem
References: <mailman.1017411944.1474.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kN%o8.128497$Yv2.38756@rwcrnsc54>

Michael Hall
> Can someone tell me why this function stops printing after looping
through
> the <option> section, before </select> ? Everything prints to the
browser
> up to the last while loop, then from </select> there is nothing more.
>
> I'm new to Python and tend to try to use PHP idioms too much, but I
can't
> see what is wrong here.
>
> Also, am I using MySQLdb's c.close() correctly here? Any really bad
Python
> in this example?
>
> ----------
> def ShowCats():
> print "<form
action=\"http://olc.localdomain/cgi-bin/shopcat/shopcat.py\"
method=\"post\">"
> print "<select name=\"cat\">"
> db = MySQLdb.connect(user="abc",passwd="xyz",db="shopcat_db")
> c = db.cursor()
> query = c.execute("SELECT category FROM categories")
> while query:
> result = c.fetchone()
> category = result[0]
> print "<option value='%s'>%s</option>" % (category,category)
> print "</select>"
> print "<input type='hidden' name='action' value='showall'>"
> print "<input type='submit' value='SUBMIT'>"
> print "</form>"
> c.close()
>

[I suspect you're using tabs for indentation.  Some newsreaders (mine
included) lose tabbed indentation.  If you post with spaces, readers are
more likely to respond as they won't need to 'clean up the code' first.]

It doesn't look like the while loop terminates.  Try something like:

query = c.execute("SELECT category FROM categories")
result = c.fetchone()
while result:
    category = result[0]
    print "<option value='%s'>%s</option>" % (category,category)
    result = c.fetchone()


And there's no 'really bad' code in there.  I tend to keep SQL
connection and authentication related information in a separate local
module and then:

from sqldata import cache
catdata = cache("SELECT category FROM categories")
for cat in catdata:
    print "<option value='%s'>%s</option>" % (cat.category,cat.category)

but that's really just personal choice.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From p.g at figu.no  Sat Mar  2 11:10:31 2002
From: p.g at figu.no (Per Gummedal)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:10:31 +0100
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
In-Reply-To: <3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk>
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com>
 <3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1851070092828.20020302171031@figu.no>

Wayne Pierce wrote:
> As I understand it, the only restriction on redistribution is if you are
> distributing commercial apps.  Then you need the business edition to
> redistribute Qt and the other modules.  It might be good to get the
> scoop directly from them on this since I got the business edition and
> haven't had to worry about it.

>From the BlackAdder readme file:
The license of the Beta version prevents run-time components of the
Business Edition being distributed with your applications. This 
restriction will be removed when the final version is released.


Per




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar 11 19:03:44 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:03:44 +1300
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com> <gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com> <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com> <3C8BBFD4.A29A69F1@engcorp.com> <4abd9ce7.0203102128.67c7fa0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D45E0.5F8F91D4@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

damien morton wrote:
> 
> The existing mass of python code would be unchanged. The only issue
> that might occur is that something that is now an error, would not be.
> 
> It remains to be seen whether or not the mass of python programmers
> are opposed.

All that really matters is whether Guido is opposed,
and from past discussions, he is.

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to agree with him.
Although it's very tempting to make an exception here,
maintaining consistency is more important than the
small convenience it would bring.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From kragen at pobox.com  Sat Mar 30 04:12:18 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 04:12:18 -0500
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
References: <mailman.1016971717.5613.python-list@python.org> <a7klhn$b6o$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <83u1r43zav.fsf@panacea.canonical.org> <a7p6va$7ct$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <831ye21kst.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:
> "Kragen Sitaker" <kragen at pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:83u1r43zav.fsf at panacea.canonical.org...
> > "Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:
> > > > Is there any good tutorial for creating advanced client/server apps
> > > > (like online games) out there? i tried to make one 2 times, and both
> > >
> > > May I suggest you take a look at Pyro;   http://pyro.sourceforge.net
> > > It may be just what you want/need for easy distributed application
> development.
> > > You don't have to do any network programming when using Pyro.
> >
> > I don't think Pyro is suitable for online games.  It's an RPC layer.
> 
> Yes, but what is wrong with that?

'RPC' usually means 'synchronous'.

> Your game clients communicate with a game server, voila, RPC. A single or a few
> Pyro objects could perfectly be the game server, can't they?
> Your server publishes game state updates. Voila, Pyro's event service.

I didn't know Pyro had an event service.  I should look at that.  Thanks!



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 14 00:05:22 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 00:05:22 -0500
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6pb2i$44p$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters  <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
>[Aahz]
>>
>> Dunno, but I filed a SF bug to check compatibility with the new 1.1.4.
>
>I can't find any such bug report.  Did you file it against the Python
>project?

I *thought* I did, but I'm certainly prepared to believe that I failed
to do it properly.  Do you care if I try again?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From return at trafficmagnet.net  Thu Mar 14 16:25:13 2002
From: return at trafficmagnet.net (Christine Hall)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:25:13 +0800 (CST)
Subject: TrafficMagnet - Special Offer!
Message-ID: <20CR1000035967@emaserver.trafficmagnet.net>

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From sjones16 at rochester.rr.com  Fri Mar  1 20:58:48 2002
From: sjones16 at rochester.rr.com (Seth Jones)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:58:48 GMT
Subject: (Hopefully) simple IDLE question
Message-ID: <slWf8.19790$V15.3283629@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Hi all,

Is there any way to set the current working directory for a file being used
in IDLE? I simply want to open a file that is in the same directory as my
script, which I've opened into the
idle window, and I don't want to hard-code the full path of the file.
Failing that, is there any alternative in Windows 95 to the normal command
line? I ask, since the reason I'm using IDLE in the first place is to avoid
calling my script from the horribly unsatisfying DOS prompt. Failing even
that, is there a better way to get error output from a .pyw file than to
catch all exceptions and write them to a file?

A google search did lead me to an old mailing-list post about adding the
option for setting
current directories in IDLE, but apparently that hasn't been done yet.


I hope someone can convey some wisdom to this poor soul who's still stuck on
win95.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

Keith (not Seth) Jones   (^ :




From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar 10 13:15:06 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 10:15:06 -0800
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>
>>I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
>>C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
>>that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
>>Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
>
>I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python, 
>e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems, 
>run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.

But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
than C/Python?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar 16 21:59:44 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 03:59:44 +0100
Subject: return type question - operator oveloading
References: <mailman.1016322689.22392.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91D428C3EA069cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

arthur.siegel at rsmi.com wrote in
news:mailman.1016322689.22392.python-list at python.org: 
> Given:
> 
> class Complex(complex):
>     def __mul__(self,other):
>        other=Complex(other)
>        t = complex.__mul__(self,other)
>        return Complex(t.real,t.imag)
>     __rmul__ = __mul__
> 
>     def __add__(self,other):
>        other=Complex(other)
>        return
>        Complex(self.real.__add__(other.real),
>            self.imag.__add__(other.imag)) 
>     __radd__ = __add__
> 
> Then:
> 
> print type(Complex(5,4) * 7)
>>><class '__main__.Complex'>
> print type(7 * Complex(5,4))
>>><class '__main__.Complex'>
> print type(Complex(5,4) + 7)
>>><class '__main__.Complex'>
> 
> But:
> 
> print type(7 + Complex(5,4))
>>><type 'complex'>

yes i get the same results (py 2.2).

> Multiple choice:
>   That the result at But is a surprise to me because I am missing:
>       1)Something obvious about __radd__ or general classic syntax
>       2)Something related to new style classes
>       3)Other

i vote for "3) Other". i think the integer class defines __add__ for 
complex numbers but not __mul__ for complex numbers. thus when adding
"7+Complex(5,4)" your __radd__ is never called cause the int class 
indles it.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From bobx at linuxmail.org  Sun Mar 10 20:10:30 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 17:10:30 -0800
Subject: Learning  Python 2nd Edition???
Message-ID: <1001ff04.0203101710.46f27d85@posting.google.com>

Is there an "updated" Learning Python book in the works?

Bob

P.S. post here please...I read c.l.python a bit


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 17:00:51 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 23:00:51 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <m3eli190mk.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> writes:

> A. This PEP formalizes existing Python practice in regards to truth
> values.  The 'new' type is not really new.  The main visible effect is
> to change the display of the doubleton values.  The existing magic
> method is __truth__().  Better to call the new type and constructor
> truth() than to change __truth__ () to __bool__().

The existing magic method is __nonzero__, and the PEP does not propose
to change it...

Regards,
Martin



From denro at NSPAMearthlink.net  Mon Mar  4 17:29:36 2002
From: denro at NSPAMearthlink.net (Dennis Roark)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:29:36 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex@netWindows.org> <Xns91C39C93F933Edenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.23> <u7v372preds40a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91C7A7DAAD083denroearthlinknet@207.217.77.25>

"DeepBleu" <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote in
news:u7v372preds40a at corp.supernews.com: 

> Then of course we'll see some professors assigning the D & D Python
> book as a textbook on a scripting language.  How disgusting!
> DeepBleu
> 

I suspect so, but it certainly won't be me.  I plan on using the Mark 
Lutz book Programming Python for an elective course next academic year.  
I won't use the D&D C/C++ books either.  I would like to see some 
organized, printed material for GUI development in Python, but my 
impression is that that area is still settling out and books are 
premature.

-- 
Dennis Roark

denro at earthlink.net
Starting Points:
www.home.earthlink.net/~denro


From frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk  Tue Mar 12 08:54:53 2002
From: frithiof.jensen at removethis.ted.ericsson.dk (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:54:53 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1015941315.65895@robert>

There is also the issue of the "Poisonous Community License Agreements" used
by Microsoft - in essence they bar developers from using any knowledge
gained from access to source under license Microsoft to implement *any* Open
Source software, not "merely" software in competition with MS's
implementation.

Odds are that if one were to develop for .NET, one would be screwed later by
Microsofts legal machine for disclosing proprietary information and
violating the NDA ...




From roy at panix.com  Sun Mar 10 12:18:39 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:18:39 -0500
Subject: Use apply() or not, and raising multiple exceptions (co-routines?)
Message-ID: <roy-5CA36F.12183910032002@news1.panix.com>

I've got some code which performs a series of integrety checks against a 
data set.  The way I've set things up, I put each check in its own method 
and keep a list of all the methods:

checks = []

def check1 (self, data):
   do stuff
checks.append (check1)

def check2 (self, data):
   do other stuff
checks.append (check2)

and so on.  This makes it easy to add and delete bits of policy over time.  
I cycle over the checking functions by doing:

for check in self.checks:
    check (self, data)

I could have also written this as:

for check in self.checks:
    apply (check, [data])

is there any particular reason to prefer one style over the other?  Having 
walked a few people through the code, I'm starting to think that the latter 
is a little more self-explanitory (especially for junior pythonistas).  On 
the other hand, I suspect it's slighly less efficient.

A related question is how best to have the check methods do more than one 
thing.  Right now, I just have each method print an error message when it 
finds a problem.  A given method might check for more than one related 
problem.  I'd like to pull the printing out of the functions themselves, 
and go to an exception based system, where I'd do something like:

for check in self.checks:
   try:
      check (self, data)
   except IntegrityCheckError, message:
      print 'failed check:', message

The problem is I'd only catch the first problem found by a given check 
method.  The way around that would be to make the check methods each look 
for one, and only one, problem, but that wouldn't be inefficient 
(especially since some methods would share a lot of code and repeat a lot 
of work).  Is there some way to stack exceptions, so a given method can 
raise two or more of them in sequence, or something having the same effect?

The only thing I can see is to have each check method return a list of 
problems it found.  Then, the main loop would look like:

for check in self.checks:
   for problem in check (self, data):
      print 'failed check:', problem

but that implies pushing a lot of scaffolding down into the check methods, 
making them build and manipulate error lists to return.  I'm trying to keep 
them as clean as possible, so they're easy to write and debug.
   
It would be kind of neat if after doing the except clause, my method picked 
up again at the statement after the raise.  I guess what I'd have then is 
the caller and callee acting as co-routines.  Is there a way to do anything 
like that?


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Mar 13 12:21:11 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:21:11 -0800
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
In-Reply-To: <lnvj8.10804$mp.49596@news-server.bigpond.net.au>; from nhodgson@bigpond.net.au on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:33:53PM +0000
References: <mailman.1015969832.32501.python-list@python.org> <lnvj8.10804$mp.49596@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020313092111.B2272@ActiveState.com>

[Neil Hodgson wrote]
>    No. I started writing a lexer for Perl, but it is incomplete and is
> likely to remain incomplete. The subset of Perl handled is sufficient for
> syntax styling but is not sufficient for a language interpreter. The code is
> available as part of Scintilla and is used in various IDEs. At one stage it
> was used in Komodo, but ActiveState may have changed to using the Perl
> interpreter's lexer. I wrote the first versions and then other contributors
> extended the lexer into some of the more difficult pieces of Perl syntax.

Komodo (and Visual Perl sort of too) is still using LexPerl.cxx from the
scintilla project. I *believe* we have some additional bug fixes that should
come down the pipe when we get that in order.


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From grante at visi.com  Thu Mar  7 10:46:59 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:46:59 GMT
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.1015496653.15042.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TXLh8.15020$N7.3388991@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1015496653.15042.python-list at python.org>, Marco Herrn wrote:

> Is there a reason why this is just a convention?

Because it seems to work well enough that way.

> It seems (because it is such a _strong_ convention) that this
> should be a real feature of the language. I mean that there
> could be a reserved word "self" which is there all the time, so
> that one doesn't hast to do this himself.

It would make the language and the parser more complex.
Extra cost must be justified by some corresponding gain.  It
would also make it less obvious what "self" is if the first
parameter to a method was hidden from the user.

If a function expects a parameter, then it should show up in
the function definition.  Methods are just functions whose
first parameter is expected to be an object reference.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did we bring enough
                                  at               BEEF JERKY?
                               visi.com            


From ggerrietts at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 17:09:37 2002
From: ggerrietts at yahoo.com (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:09:37 -0800
Subject: [newbie] Problem with os.system
In-Reply-To: <a5u6il$fsc$1@smilodon.ecp.fr>
References: <a5u6il$fsc$1@smilodon.ecp.fr>
Message-ID: <20020303220937.GC12980@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting DarkCed (malletc3 at cti.ecp.fr):
> I would like to run a program from a python script (a source for a
> icecast server).
> The program works, but a simple two-line script with os.system('ices')
> does not. I get this message :
> "syntax error near unexpected token".
> 
> If I type "ices" in the same repertory, it works...
> Shall I use another command to run my program ?

By itself, that's not a syntax error. Maybe you should show us the
entire script?

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <ggerrietts at yahoo.com>
-rw-rw-rw-:  permissions of the beast



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Mar 22 21:12:36 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 20:12:36 -0600
Subject: Environment variables.
References: <mailman.1016817295.29856.python-list@python.org> <3C9BAFAE.51D0896D@cs.unm.edu>
Message-ID: <87690C90F6F2E02F.105990D53AD9A33E.F2FA6E52B7893A40@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3C9BAFAE.51D0896D at cs.unm.edu>,
Vamsi K Kalapala  <vamsi at cs.unm.edu> wrote:
>>
>
>Hi,
>
>I am learning python and I wanted to write a small script that will set
>environment variables.
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>
># Program to set the environment.
>
># Import the sys and os modules.
>import sys
>import os
>
># Function to change the environment.
>def setenv(var, value):
>   os.environ[var] = value
>
># The driver.
>if __name__ == '__main__' :
>   setenv(sys.argv[1], sys.argv[2])
>
>I am running this on Python-2.2, but the script doesn't change the
>environment. In Programming Python, it is claimed that newer versions of
>Python do change the environment like this. Why is'nt this script
>working.
>
>--Vamsi
>

"... [Y]ou can't change the value of an environment variable
in another process".  That's what an authoritative FAQ <URL:
http://www.erlenstar.demon.co.uk/unix/faq_2.html#SEC8 > claims
on the matter.  That's almost entirely true.

What environment is it you want to change?  The one of the
parent of your Python process?  Why?

On what page of *Programming Python* do you find the claim to
which you refer?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 16:00:43 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 22:00:43 +0100
Subject: ICU wrapper for Python?
References: <mailman.1012816506.11178.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3g03kq9z8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Fredrik Juhlin <laz at strakt.com> writes:

> I was fiddling around with a Python wrapper for the ICU libraries this
> weekend, when it occured to me to check if anyone else is/has been working
> on the same thing. I looked around a bit on the net but couldn't find
> anything, so I figured I'd drop a question here too :)

Did you make any progress on that? I'd be most interested in exposing
the codecs.

Regards,
Martin



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 17 20:50:14 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:50:14 +0100
Subject: Python on an ARM Linux Graphics Client Plus
In-Reply-To: <55ddffcb.0203171705.3fb1d286@posting.google.com>
References: <55ddffcb.0203171705.3fb1d286@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020318015014.GA76781@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Robert Innes <rinnes at integraonline.com> [2002-03-17 17:05 -0800]:
> Been killing myself trying to build this to no avail. I know it can be
> done but I have not been able to get a good version. Could some kind
> person help me preserve what little hair I have left and tell me how
> they did it or point me to a binary that I can copy to my system?

While cross-compilation is possible with some hacking, it's much easier to
compile natively.

Take a look at http://www.handhelds.org/projects/skiffcluster.html

then just compile Python and whatever else you need natively on the
Skiffcluster. Take it home and enjoy :)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 7.3 ?C      Wind: 1.8 m/s



From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Wed Mar 13 04:40:15 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:40:15 +0100
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <3C8DFF7B.7EF0EAC6@kfunigraz.ac.at> <9dvs8u8aulpr2ceppipnakdk78e9bipneo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F1E7F.715A6E45@kfunigraz.ac.at>

Martin Kaufmann wrote:


> >How much slower? A performance penalty of 100 would be of great concern;
> >a factor of 5 should not mind you (but this is my personal view). Okay,
> >if you have to wait in C or C++ 1 hour then even a factor of 5 is
> >somewhat bothersome.
> 
> Even a factor of 5 is not really nice if you have to run it for
> several hundred times...

[I haven't studied your code, yet].

The speed/tuning problem only emerges when one knows about the speed of
an equivalent code lets say written in C++ or Fortran 90. It is
comprehensive that then one does ask: "What are the reasons for, and why
should I just use the slow one".

But you should re-think your stance. I can assure you, that normally
people are not complaining about speed in
Matlab/IDL/Python/Mathematica/Yorick/Octave,... as long as they do not
compare it to C++ or Fortran 90.

They even write simulations in IDL (whenever you see a high resolution
solar granulation image, it is likely that they did it in IDL; at least
my colleague in front of me). Personally, I think they are in error as
long as they write such stuff in IDL, because it is questionable to make
ones code (more than 1000 lines of code) dependent on one company. 

If you are going to decide whether you should learn C or C++, I want
suggest you to dive in to C++ or Fortran 90 directly (If you are a
scientist I can ssure you that nobody on earth will ever pay you money
that you can show how C works). You should just starting to use valarray
and the like. 

I am not a C++ advocate (nor I am a Fortran 90 junkie, either), but
maybe the following (a little bit biased towards C++) article will help
you during your reasoning-study:

www.amath.washington.edu/~lf/software/CompCPP_F90SciOOP.html


S. Gonzi
[It is lurking to have a look at so called modern programming paradigms,
e.g. "functional programming". But you should stay away from them as
long as you do not know whether it is possible for example to write a
number with a sepcific format to a file. Only to mention one tragedy]


From p.magwene at snet.net  Fri Mar 15 19:52:32 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:52:32 GMT
Subject: Shot in the Dark: Minimum-weight perfect matching algorithm
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.15.19.52.32.366019.81993@snet.net>

Hi Y'All,

Here's a long shot -

Does anybody happen to have a Python implementation of a minimum-weight
perfect matching algorithm?  Or a Python interface to one?

I'm aware of (some) of the literature on this topic, but as a non-computer
scientist I'd rather not have to twist my mind around one of the Blossum
algorithms.

I'm trying to implement a variation of Christofide's algorithm, and hence
need to find minimum weight perfect matchings on graphs.  My original plan
was to use to simply pipe my data from my Python implementation to Cook
and Rohe's Blossom4 implemenation, but while I can compile their C-code, I
get core dumps when actually trying to use the binaries (on recent
versions of Linux and FreeBSD systems).

Before I spend hours/days reimplementing a Blossom algorithm or going
through somebody elses C code I thought I'd see if any Pythonistas had
implemented any such code lying around.

Thanks,
Paul Magwene


From tl_news at nexgo.de  Tue Mar 12 10:02:37 2002
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:02:37 +0100
Subject: New-Style-Classes: some questions
Message-ID: <a6l5ae$evp$1@crusher.de.colt.net>

Hi!

I'm trying to use the new, cool 2.2-feature of deriving own classes from 
builtin types. For one application I thought it could be useful to have a 
list that has a maximum size and throws away the first elements if new 
elements are appended at the othe end (it's name should be MaxSizedList)

OK, implementing something like that is no problem at all. The new 
list-like class works quite fine.

But testing it I found two problems/questions:

1) According to the current documentation
 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/sequence-methods.html

the special methods __getslice__ and __setslice__ are deprecated and should 
not be implemented anymore (since 2.0) . But they exist automatically in 
the subclassed list and are used for insertion like 

newlist[3:4] = 5

- so it seems I have to code/overload these deprecated methods. What's true 
now? Deprecated or not?

2) I wanted to transfer the MaxSizedList on request via XML-RPC. But 
xmlrpclib only nows about "real" lists. And there seems to be no interface 
to add dump()-Methods for other data types, or?

So the best solution is to transport an object like
return list(newlist)

But I guess this makes a temporary copy of my MaxSizedList just for the 
XML-RPC-transport, or? So it's horrible inefficient? Is there no other way 
to deal with subclassed types in this lib besides patching the xmlrpclib to 
know my MaxSizedList? Is there a kind of casting to a "normal" list 
possible without making a completely new list from the MaxSizedList-Content?

Thanks a lot for your help!

Tino

  




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar 13 23:43:33 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 20:43:33 -0800
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
References: <mailman.1016077524.10400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd6y74v4a.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?= <gh_pythonlist at gmx.de> writes:

> I have two lists of files (approx. 50000 entries). Now I want to have all the
> entries of list b, that are not in list a. However, the primitive:
> 
> results = []
> for entry in b:
>     if entry not in a:
>         results.append(entry)
> 
> is terribly slow. I mean *really* slow. Any recommendations on how
> to optimize this? Wouldn't it be nice if I could simply do
> b.removeall(a)?

Method 1: use a dictionary, as several people suggested

Method 2: sort both lists, then make a single sequential pass through
them selecting out the elements that you want, sort of like the "comm"
command in Unix.  Coding this is left for you as an exercise :)


From theller at python.net  Tue Mar 26 14:43:26 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:43:26 +0100
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nqhs$n13nl$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7qj1d$nh47k$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"David Ascher" <> wrote in message news:mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list at python.org...

> PS: Thomas -- where's the source to the code that's embedded in
> bdist_wininst?
>
In the distutils tree of the Python CVS repository:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/distutils/misc/

Thomas




From cpbotha at i_triple_e.org  Thu Mar 28 15:11:04 2002
From: cpbotha at i_triple_e.org (Charl P. Botha)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:11:04 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2> <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>

In article <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list at python.org>, 
David Ascher wrote:
> Thanks for all the interest in ActivePython.  We hope to not have these
> kinds of delays in the future.

Just remember not to split your infinitives in the future. ;)

Keep up the good work!

-- 
charl p. botha http://cpbotha.net/ http://visualisation.tudelft.nl/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 03:50:46 2002
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Python-Help] How to get a key from  dictionary?
In-Reply-To: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020326085046.6693.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com>

--- A <printers at sendme.cz> wrote:
> Hi,
> Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a
> key according to a value ?

In general, zero or more keys will correspond to
a given value, and it's easy to get the list of those
(but of course it takes time proportional to the
TOTAL number of items in the dictionary):

[ key for key in thedict if thedict[key] == avalue ]

This is Python 2.2, but it's not hard to do it in
Python 2.1 (or even 2.0) just as well, e.g.:

[ key for key, v in thedict.items() if v == avalue ]

just a bit slower for huge dictionaries given the
need to call .items().


> For example
> I have a dictionary
> 
> dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}

I STRONGLY suggest you don't use the name of built-in
types as the name of your variables.  Don't call your
variables: list, dict, tuple, int, long, float, str...
Python lets you do that, but sooner or later you'll
come a doozy.  Use alist, adict, ... or else
thelist, thedict, ....  dict is a built-in name
only since Python 2.2, by the way.


Alex


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From joefahler at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 13:17:53 2002
From: joefahler at hotmail.com (fester)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 10:17:53 -0800
Subject: Mailman stat script?
Message-ID: <f61d583.0203131017.a737d8e@posting.google.com>

Hello, 
I've been searching for quite some time for a program/script that will
generate monthly stats for a mailman list.  (And output to HTML, which
would be very cool) I've found a good one for Majordomo on freshmeat,
but so far nothing turns up for Mailman.  Does anyone know of such a
beast?  Thanks for any suggestions...


From xd_pan at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 22:13:29 2002
From: xd_pan at yahoo.com (Xiangdong Pan)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 19:13:29 -0800
Subject: make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `Modules/posixmodule.o'
Message-ID: <a975fedd.0203021913.3d7b2952@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I tried to install Python 2.2 on my unix machine, but it received
above error when I typed make. I'm really appreciated if anyone could
help me out. Thanks in advance.

Patrick

=======================================
Here is the system info and error mesg:
=======================================

My machine info is: 

 osname=solaris, osvers=2.6, archname=sun4-solaris
 uname='sunos 5.6 generic_105181-25 sun4u sparc sunw,ultra-60'

The complier I use is  
    
    cc='gcc', gccversion='2.7.2.1', gccosandvers='solaris2.6'

The following was the error message I got:

gcc -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -I./Include
-DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -c ./Modules/posixmodule.c -o Modules/posixmodule.o
In file included from /usr/include/sys/wait.h:24,
                 from
/pkg/gnu/gcc-2.7.2.1/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.6/2.7.2.1/include/stdlib.h:22,
                 from Include/Python.h:50,
                 from ./Modules/posixmodule.c:19:
/usr/include/sys/resource.h:148: warning: `struct rlimit64' declared
inside parameter list
/usr/include/sys/resource.h:148: warning: its scope is only this
definition or declaration,
/usr/include/sys/resource.h:148: warning: which is probably not what
you want.
/usr/include/sys/resource.h:149: warning: `struct rlimit64' declared
inside parameter list
In file included from ./Modules/posixmodule.c:4341:
/usr/include/sys/statvfs.h:93: warning: `struct statvfs64' declared
inside parameter list
/usr/include/sys/statvfs.h:94: warning: `struct statvfs64' declared
inside parameter list
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4344: warning: `struct statvfs64' declared
inside parameter list
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4344: parameter `st' has incomplete type
./Modules/posixmodule.c: In function `posix_fstatvfs':
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4391: storage size of `st' isn't known
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4401: type of formal parameter 1 is incomplete
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4391: warning: unused variable `st'
./Modules/posixmodule.c: In function `posix_statvfs':
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4419: storage size of `st' isn't known
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4428: type of formal parameter 1 is incomplete
./Modules/posixmodule.c:4419: warning: unused variable `st'
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `Modules/posixmodule.o'


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar 18 17:03:41 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:03:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XML help
References: <AYpl8.16002$i66.686070@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <slrna9cp1t.ddl.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <AYpl8.16002$i66.686070 at wagner.videotron.net>, Vincent Foley wrote:
>Hi,
>
>  I have a XML document <http://freshmeat.net/projects-xml/vim/vim.xml>.
>I want to put the latest_version value in a variable.  How would I do
>that?

Well, to download it, you would probably simply use urllib (very easy
to use). To extract the value, you have many options. You don't really
have to use xml parsing for such a simple problem. E.g.:

from urllib import urlopen
url = 'http://freshmeat.net/projects-xml/vim/vim.xml'
for line in urlopen(url).readlines():
    start = line.find('<latest_version>')
    end   = line.find('</latest_version>')
    if -1 not in (start, end):
        print line[start+16:end]

On the other hand, using the xml libraries wouldn't be that hard
either.

>
>Thanks

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From gimbo at ftech.net  Tue Mar  5 12:43:02 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:43:02 +0000
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
In-Reply-To: <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net>
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com> <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net>
Message-ID: <20020305174302.GC1303@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

If you're thinking about improvements to the organisation of
www.python.org, I'd like to say that I think the module index at

http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html

is getting bloated by platform-specific modules I don't need to know
about.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to split this up somehow.
Maybe not one list for each platform, but maybe two lists:  "Platform
independent" and "Platform specific".  Then all those Carbon. modules
wouldn't distract me so much.  ;-)

Having said all that, I still find that the most useful page on the
site.  ;-)

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From not-a-real-address at usa.net  Mon Mar 25 15:19:17 2002
From: not-a-real-address at usa.net (those who know me have no need of my name)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 20:19:17 GMT
Subject: stdin/stdout redirection mystericals
References: <a7b3dv$7bp$1@suaar1aa.prod.compuserve.com> <Xns91D7B61956935danielfox2001moo@65.82.44.7>
 <a7cjcl$e5h$1@suaar1aa.prod.compuserve.com>
 <a7cpqj2l72@enews2.newsguy.com>
 <a7f52c$m7m$1@suaar1ac.prod.compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <a7o0o855qh@enews2.newsguy.com>

[fu-t set]

<a7f52c$m7m$1 at suaar1ac.prod.compuserve.com> divulged:

>I just wondered, why thes dup2 didn't work within my programm,
>while an normal shell pipe does it's work...

a) neither the python libraries nor dup2 is iso c, the topic of
comp.lang.c, so this needs to move elsewhere.  restate your question there.

b) if workarounds are suggested by people familiar with the subject matter
that is an _extremely_ strong indicator that what you want to do cannot be
done any other way.

-- 
bringing you boring signatures for 17 years


From calves at coelce.com.br  Mon Mar 11 12:06:51 2002
From: calves at coelce.com.br (Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:06:51 -0300
Subject: lambda question
Message-ID: <29A97D00F387D411AC7900902770E148044AAFEB@lcoeexc01.coelce.net>

Hi all,
Look at the two codes below

first code:

	f='x**3+2*x'
	list=[0,1,2,0]
	map(lambda x:eval(f),list)

second code:

	def exe1(f,list):
		return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)

Can someone explain to me why the first code works while second doesn't.

Carlos Alberto
COELCE/DPRON-Departamento de Projetos e Obras Norte
Fone: 677- 2228
e-mail: calves at coelce.com.br
\|||/
(o o)
--ooo0-(_)-0ooo--

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 12:24:03 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:24:03 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com> <3CA6ADEC.80859964@engcorp.com> <a877mh$sjc$1@panix1.panix.com> <3CA732D6.91163F1E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a87gnj$e75$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3CA732D6.91163F1E at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>I do hope you will have a chance to mention PyUnit anyway, even
>if not as an extension.  Learning how to use it will definitely
>improve a programmer's productivity.

Oh, of course I'll mention doctest and unittest.  My focus will be on
"batteries included"; the question is which of the *non*-included
extensions I should cover.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From graz at mindless.com  Sat Mar 16 06:00:13 2002
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:00:13 +0000
Subject: Optimising list comparison
References: <mailman.1016231738.7256.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PwFk8.7029$OP.220982@stones>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:33:29 +0000, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Graham Ashton]
>>     def compare():
>>         for i in range(len(list1)):
>>             a = list1[i]
>>             b = list2[i]
>>             if (a != b) and (a != -1) and (b != -1):
>>                 return 0
>>         return 1
> 
> You could also exploit Python's chained comparisons:
> 
>     if -1 != a != b != -1:
>         return 0

That's quite neat. I'll bear it in mind. I do see significant
differences in performance for different data sets, as you pointed out.

>     if list1[i] + list2[i] == 1:
>         return 0
> 
> should work fine, and runs at the same speed regardless of relative
> frequency of the various input-pair possibilities.

Very cunning. And yes, it does go nearly as fast as the original
comparison, even under the original loop's most favourable conditions.
It beats everything when there is more varied input. :)

> Then it's actually quite difficult to explain why
> 
> import operator
> def attempt5(list1, list2, sum=operator.__add__):
>     return 1 not in map(sum, list1, list2)
> 
> isn't quicker than an explicit loop doing the same thing.

And it's not. I've tested it, and though it comes quite close I must
admit I'm surprised. Has it got something to do with the "1 not in seq"
part having to traverse the whole sequence?

> Keep trying <wink>.  Also give
> 
>     for a, b in zip(list1, list2):
> 
> a shot.  It may surprise you <wink>.

It's not bad, but the fastest is still attempt4 (see below).

>> [breaking out of map()]
>
> You can't, short of raising an exception.  Whether you *want* to break
> out early depends on the expected distribution of input pairs; e.g., if,
> like the example you're timing, it's typical that the vectors start with
> a long stretch of equal elements, breaking early would be much more
> useful if you started comparing at the end.

I'm not sure about that - that's my friend's research part that I'm not
familiar with, but I'm assuming that the frequency of a mismatch will be
low, but they could occur at any point in the string.

> Well, your specific test case always raises an exception.  Exceptions
> are cheaper if they're not raised.  In the intended application, what
> percentage of the time do you expect inequality to occur?  An exception
> gets more attractive the less often inequality obtains.

I don't know that either. We'll have to ask him. Matt - are you reading 
this?

> Note that having to use a lambda is also a drag on speed.  map() speed
> tricks are much more effective if a builtin function can be mapped.

That's very useful to know.

> However (and this is a clue to an earlier mystery), an infix "+" applied
> to integers is much quicker than operator.__add__ applied to integers.

Ah! I see. Thanks for all that Tim - a very enlightening conversation.

>> Here's my complete script:
>> ...
> Thanks!  That's very helpful.

Well for those who've been following this, here's my latest version.
attempt5() is commented out because you need 2.2 to get it to run.

----cut----
#!/usr/bin/env python

import time

list1 = [1] * 20
## list1 = [1] * 9 + [0] + [1] * 10
list2 = [1] * 19 + [0]

def benchmark(func, iters=100000, l1=list1, l2=list2):
    start = time.time()
    for i in range(iters):
        r = func(l1, l2)
    end = time.time()
    print "%d iterations of %s took: %.6f secs" % (iters, func, end - start)

def attempt1(l1, l2):
    for i in range(len(l1)):
        if (l1[i] != l2[i]) and (l1[i] != -1) and (l2[i] != -1):
            return 0
    return 1

func = lambda a, b: (a == b) or (a == -1) or (b == -1) or 1 / 0

def attempt2(l1, l2):
    try:
        map(func, l1, l2)
    except ZeroDivisionError:
        pass

def attempt3(l1, l2):
    for i in range(len(l1)):
        if -1 != l1[i] != l2[i] != -1:
            return 0
    return 1

def attempt4(l1, l2):
    for i in range(len(l1)):
        if l1[i] + l2[i] == 1:
            return 0
    return 1

## import operator
## def attempt5(l1, l2, sum=operator.__add__):
##     return 1 not in map(sum, l1, l2)

def attempt6(l1, l2):
    for a, b in zip(l1, l2):
        if a + b == 1:
            return 0
    return 1

if __name__ == "__main__":
##     for f in (attempt1, attempt2, attempt3, attempt4, attempt5, attempt6):
    for f in (attempt1, attempt2, attempt3, attempt4, attempt6):
        benchmark(f)
----cut----

ratchet% python listmatch.py
100000 iterations of <function attempt1 at 0x8105e9c> took: 3.349525 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt2 at 0x810340c> took: 7.734273 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt3 at 0x811c254> took: 4.878889 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt4 at 0x812b1f4> took: 3.413134 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt6 at 0x811c28c> took: 4.656984 secs

-- 
Graham


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Mon Mar 11 06:34:31 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 11:34:31 GMT
Subject: PEP 2, Procedure for Adding New Modules
References: <a6cssr$dn8$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <a6d3ih$3ne$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6i4o7$jd0$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
> The maintainers also possess primary responsibility for determining
> whether bugfixes should be backported to previous Python releases as
> discussed in PEP 6.

Thanks; I'm adding some phrases on this to PEP 2. PEP 6 claims it's a
'draft' PEP by the way, what is its status?

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From kwg at renre-europe.com  Wed Mar 20 09:24:33 2002
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 14:24:33 +0000
Subject: tkinter menuitem question
Message-ID: <1016634274.18026.39.camel@lewis>

ok, I might be way off here but is there a way with a collection of
Tkinter menuitems that all have their callbacks set to be the one
function to determine which menuitem was clicked on?

for example, given the snippet:


        menubar1=Pmw.MenuBar(vbox1)
        menubar1.addmenu('TopLvlMenu','this is a tooltip')
        menubar1.addcascademenu('TopLvlMenu', 'Item#6','tool tip for
					item 6')
        menubar1.addmenuitem('Item#6', 'command', '',
		label="item#7",underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
        menubar1.addmenuitem('Item#6', 'command', 'oct', label="item#8",
	        underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
        menubar1.addmenuitem('TopLvlMenu', 'command', 'naoi',
		label="item#9", underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
        menubar1.addmenuitem('TopLvlMenu', 'separator', '')
        menubar1.addmenuitem('TopLvlMenu', 'command', '',
		label="item10", underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
        menubar1.pack(expand=NO, side=TOP)


Is it possible to give these menuitems the one handler function/callback
function that can determine which item was clicked on?
The reason for asking is that I have a dynamically generated cascading
popup menu and need to know which menuitem has been selected.

I have thought of displaying a very small dialog box which would only
contain a combobox and nothing else. the dialog box would be unloaded
once the user selects an item from the combobox but this wouldn't really
work as there need to be cascaded entries.

any ideas?

k.





From * at spam.ruud.org  Wed Mar 13 11:34:55 2002
From: * at spam.ruud.org (ruud de rooij)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 11:34:55 -0500
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>

> > for index in range(len(mylist)):
> >     <whatever>

> several solutions:
> 
> # if whatever contains only refs to mylist [index]
> for element in mylist:
>     <whatever>
> 
> # if you really need the index
> def listIndices (list):
>     return range (len (list))
> 
> for index in listIndices (mylist):
>     <whatever>
> 
> # my favourite
> class IndexAndElement:
>     def __init__ (self, list):
>         self.list = list
> 
>     def __getitem__ (self, index):
>         return (index, self.list [index])
> 
> for index, element in IndexAndElement (mylist):
>     <whatever>
> 
> There's more than one way to heal a wart.

perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
(analogous to dictionaries).

        - ruud
-- 
ruud de rooij | *@spam.ruud.org | http://ruud.org


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Wed Mar 13 07:16:59 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 23:16:59 +1100
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m31yeoirwk.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

> >Are there any projects out there that allow you to embed python in
> >HTML like PHP?  I like the PHP-style of embedding the bits of
> >program in HTML, but I'd like to use python...  Something like:
> >
> ><html>
> ><?python
> >	print "<ul>"
> >	for reptile in ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]:
> >		print "<li> %s </li>" % reptile
> >	print "</ul>"
> >?>
> ></html>

The example Andrew presented is certainly the Albatross way, but you
could also do things like this with Andrew's improved template parser
in 0.06 (if you were so inclined):

- - reptile.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
<html>
<al-exec expr='
print "<ul>"
for reptile in ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]:
    print "<li> %s </li>" % reptile
print "</ul>"
'>
</html>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The example program adds a write() method to the execution context to
make it look like a file for the print statement.

- - reptile.py - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
import albatross

class Ctx(albatross.SimpleContext):
    def write(self, data):
        self.write_content(data)

ctx = Ctx('.')
ctx.locals.reptiles = ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]
template = ctx.load_template("reptiles.html")

old_stdout = sys.stdout
try:
    sys.stdout = ctx
    template.to_html(ctx)
finally:
    sys.stdout = old_stdout

print "Content-Type: text/html"
print
ctx.flush_content()
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Produces the following output...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Content-Type: text/html

<html>
<ul>
<li> Crocodile </li>
<li> Python </li>
<li> Iguana </li>
<li> Tortoise </li>
</ul>
</html>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar  9 22:30:00 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:30:00 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
Message-ID: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

I'm considering writing a wxWindows app for Win32.  The only
way I'm willing to do this is by doing all of the development
under Unix, and then grit my teeth while I package up the final
product for Win32.

I've already got a command-line application that runs under
Win32/Cygwin/Unix, but it far too small, quick, and efficient.
In order to alleviate those problems, I need to stick on a
hard-to-use GUI to make the program comfortable for windows
users.

In order for it to be useful, I'll need to be able to
distribute it as a stand-alone app to users who don't have (or
care to have) a regular Python or wxWindows distro installed.

Optimally, it would be a single "exe" file that doesn't require
any installation procedure.  If that's not possible, it would
be permissible to use a typical "isntall-wizard" type
installation: running the exe installs the required files
somewhere, adds a start-menu entry, leaves an un-installer
around.

It looks like Gordon McMillan's installer might fit the bill.

Anybody care to share any experiences distributing wxWindows
apps for Win32?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Clear the
                                  at               laundromat!! This
                               visi.com            whirl-o-matic just had a
                                                   nuclear meltdown!!


From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Sun Mar 17 04:38:56 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:38:56 +0100
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1016232751.9857.python-list@python.org> <3C931C23.B0B2BF75@kfunigraz.ac.at> <mailman.1016293229.8641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C946430.8A4408ED@kfunigraz.ac.at>

Tim Churches wrote:

> > delivers:
> >
> >    Min. 1st Qu.  Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
> >   0.230   1.226   7.300  18.960  31.680  78.900
> >
> > Everything is correct, except the 1st quantile and 3rd quantile.
> 
> You mean 1st quartile and 3rd quartile, not quantile. And the values
> calculated by R are not wrong, just different (see below).

The book "Statistical Methods in the Atmospheric Sciences", by D.S.
Wilks, does not really make a difference between "quantiles" and
"quartiles". According to the book I got the impression that quartiles
is inferior to quantiles (e.g. page 24: "Example 3.1. Computation of
Common Quantiles".

But you are right that I should be more precise in order to avoid
confusion.


> There are a number of methods for calculating quantiles. In R, the
> summary() function calls the quantile() function to calculate the 1st
> and 3rd quartiles and the median. The quantile() function uses linear
> interpolation to calculate the sample quantile for the probabilities of
> 0.25 and 0.75, whereas XLispStat is just taking the arithmetic mean of
> the 2nd and 3rd, and 6th and 7th values respectively (using zero-based
> indexing/counting, since this is the Python list).#

My first guess was also that R just calculates the quantiles in a
different fashion; but I could not find any hints in the documentation.
According to the beforementioned book (page 23):

"Almost as commonly used as the median are the quartiles, q0.25 and
q0.75. Usually these are called the lower and upper quartiles,
respectively. They are located halfway between the median, q0.5, and the
extremes, x(1) and x(n). In typically colorful terminology, Tukey (1977)
calls q0.25 and q0.75 the 'hinges', imagining that the data set has been
folded first at the median, and the quartiles."

I simply thought (and note the word "halfway" in the citation) then
XLispStat is/was correct.

> The methods used by R are fully described in the R manual (see
> help(quantile)), but a commonsense explanation of the R approach is as
> follows (again using zero-based indexing/counting). 

Maybe I did look too superficialy after the method of calculation.


Regards and especially thank you for your insight,
S. Gonzi


From mail at andreas-penzel.de  Tue Mar 26 18:00:40 2002
From: mail at andreas-penzel.de (Andreas Penzel)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:00:40 +0100
Subject: seek in a file
Message-ID: <a7qujn$n78gl$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>

Hello NG!

How to jump to a specified line in a file which is read-opened?
With seek() I can jump to an exact position of  the complete file in
"byte-steps".
Is seek able to jump to a line-number?
If not, what else can I do?

Thanks for help!

- Andreas




From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Fri Mar 22 14:18:22 2002
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoffrey Talvola)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:18:22 -0500
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
Message-ID: <BFFEB31BC23CCD44B8924E139E1D87E41241B1@MAILBOX.nameconnector.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Geoffrey Talvola wrote:
> > 
> > I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by 
> themselves if there
> > is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?  Is it 
> possible to
> > control this behavior?  Just a link to some documentation 
> of this behavior
> > would be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > I don't think the same thing happens on Linux, or maybe it 
> does but the
> > timeout is longer than 4 minutes there.
> > 
> > I've attached a set of 2 test scripts that provoke the 
> behavior.  Start up
> > server.py first, then client.py, then wait 4 minutes.
> 
> Haven't run your tests, but isn't this what SO_KEEPALIVE is used for?
> 
> 
> Try using:
> 
> import socket
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_KEEPALIVE, 1)
> 
> and this will turn on the keep-alive feature (I think... pulled
> that last line from pygale.py since I don't know where it
> is well documented).

I tried that after I sent the original message.  But after putting in calls
to turn on keepalive in every place and combination I could think of, it
still made no difference.  If the time.sleep() is for less than 4 minutes,
everything works, but if it's > 4 minutes, a socket.error exception gets
thrown on the client side.

- Geoff



From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Mar  3 06:56:45 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:56:45 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
In-Reply-To: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203031451510.28289-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 3 Mar 2002, Bengt Richter wrote:

>Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?

Have it in a separate file.

>Obviously a program may contain quoted material using all the
>defined string quoting methods (and this new method as well),
>so the problem is defining delimiters that won't occur in the text.
>
>I propose using a variation of the MIME multipart delimiter idea:
>
>Note the lack of quotes around the final delimiter string, since it itself is
>the final delimiter. This can also be used to solve the final unescaped
>backslash problem for quoting windows paths:
>
>    q'|'c:\foo\bar\|

Making Python as gibberish as Perl is. And all that only to
have Windows path be written without double-\
AFAIK, latest Windows also use / for delimiting dirs.
So this is non-problem.

>Regards,
>Bengt Richter
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, March 03, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Why build a wall round a cemetery when no-one wants to get in?" _/




From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 14:08:20 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:08:20 -0800
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
References: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a71tf5.3vs5vq5.1@kserver.org>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:43:02 +0300, Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list at python.org>:

> If you still will have troubles,
> I can tar and send my copy to you.

Well, I managed to download the files onto my computer. Not sure yet what
I'm going to do with them, but at least I *HAVE* them. Hmm...

Per my other questions, I got some remarks on that from another person,
here:
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=63779#post63779

Where skolnic writes:

"""
I think working with the CVS repository addresses your concerns directly.
To wit:

1) stability
CVS maintains everything that gets checked in. Most projects will use tags
to label stable points in the tree. You can check out the latest stable
tree, and then only check out the more recent versions of the individual
source files you care about. In fact, you can generate diffs between the
latest bleeding edge and the last stable release [run to garage to get
Cederqvist manual out of the car]: checkout the latest, then cvs diff -r
stable-release to see all the changes or cvs diff -r stable-release
module-I-care-about . From the output, you should be able to identify the
code that provides the functionality you care about and merge only those
changes into the codebase you use locally.
2) distribution
This is more of a challenge. One could hope that the functionality you need
makes it into a stable release by the time you are ready to distribute. You
can also post/distribute either a patch file or a patched module. I think
that I would incorporate the needed functionality into a module of my
product (lifting liberally from the Python sources, i.e. rename and edit
only as needed) and distribute it as an integral part of the tool. Tracking
the stability of the functionality in the framework (Python here) then
becomes your task--transparent to the users--to decide when to drop the
integral module and use the framework.

With CVS running locally (server, not just client) you can maintain your
own release version control that includes customized framework modules, and
run diffs against the public baseline to ease the management of what
becomes a personal branch of the Python distribution.

You can find the Cederqvist manual on-line at www.cvshome.org. I also
recommend Karl Fogel's Open Source Development with CVS ISBN 1-57610-490-7.

This all falls into the category I call constructive laziness. Work my
behind off setting things up so that they are easy. <g> Sort of like
carrying a dozen grocery bags in from the car all at once so I only have to
make one trip.

"""

Sounds like WAY more than I want to get into at the moment, but I may look
into it in the future.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Mar 29 10:07:06 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:07:06 +0300
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0203290655.25bbcab9@posting.google.com>; from paul@boddie.net on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 06:55:54AM -0800
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org> <slrna9haud.e6b.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <slrnaa3bi8.lam.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <23891c90.0203290655.25bbcab9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020329180706.E27418@phd.pp.ru>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 06:55:54AM -0800, Paul Boddie wrote:
> It's actually quite reminiscent of the earliest versions of DTML, in
> fact, where comments are used to mark the structure of the "model" as

   They are not exactly comments, they are modelled after Apache SSI (which
are comments, I must admit :)

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From eddieborder2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 13:07:42 2002
From: eddieborder2001 at yahoo.co.uk (Ed)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 10:07:42 -0800
Subject: hotmail
Message-ID: <d5534716.0203011007.4cfeb8b8@posting.google.com>

hi
im just wondering whether it is possible to access hotmail thru python
so that i have a far quicker way of checking my emails. can telnetlib
do this?
thanx
ed


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 24 04:12:14 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 10:12:14 +0100
Subject: forgetting state
References: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7s2s51t.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

emersonwood at yahoo.com (Emerson Wood) writes:

> Hi, how would I make a python interpreter
> shell forget everything that I've done
> and run a script or accepts commands as
> if it were first run?

You will explicitly need to clear all state. There is no builtin
feature to do that. In addition, it is not possible at all to unload
extension modules.

Regards,
Martin



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Mar 13 06:46:48 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:46:48 +0300
Subject: 16-Bit MS-DOS and Python
In-Reply-To: <a6ncgt$fn720$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>; from mail@andreas-penzel.de on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 12:17:23PM +0100
References: <a6ncgt$fn720$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20020313144648.D28183@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 12:17:23PM +0100, Andreas Penzel wrote:
> Is it possible to run Python-Programs with Microsoft DOS 6.2, 16-Bit?

   Only with *VERY* old python, like 1.2. New pythons require much more
memory. But it is possible to run DOS Python in 32-bit mode.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From johannh at uclink.berkeley.edu  Sat Mar 23 03:18:03 2002
From: johannh at uclink.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 00:18:03 -0800
Subject: simple question
References: <mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list@python.org> <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net> <mailman.1016868517.25439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2vgbnn1dw.fsf@uclink.berkeley.edu>

Christopher Palmer <ctp at ctpdesign.com> writes:

> Let's say I have a variable called a
> and a contains an integer, say 4522
> and I want 4, 5, 2, and 2 to be items in a list instead of an integer...

Try: map(int, str(a))

--Johann


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 19:11:21 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:11:21 -0500
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A76A9.41956E4C@engcorp.com>

Mark Gash wrote:
> 
>         * Mark Hadfield <m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz> [2002-03-21 14:02 +1200]:
>         > >>> import sys
>         > >>> sys.platform
>         > 'win32'
>         > >>> import os
>         > >>> os.name
>         > 'nt'
> 
>         That's a crude way of determining the platform, because sys.platform
>         depends on the compiler used to compile Python. Yes, even on Windows.
>         But I'm  reasonably sure that the Pythonlabs folks won't change their
>         Windows compiler anytime soon.
> 
>         I'd very much like to have a real way for determining the platform.
>         Anybody wants to write a PEP? :-)
> 
> The only way of defining the os name that I have found is then to examine
> the os.environ .By examining the COMSPEC you will be able to determine a win
> 9X machine opposed to an NT or 2000 machine (comspec for 9X will show
> command.com whereas win32 machines will show cmd.exe).

This, and the other proposals, may be exactly the wrong thing to do,
if you've at all followed Alex Martelli's advice about type checking. 

The approach whereby you check explicitly for a certain environment and
then take certain actions based on that, such as running particular
executables and so on, is very like doing type testing when passed an
object instead of just trying to call methods and catch the exceptions
if the call fails.  It's not good to say "this isn't a File object so
I refuse to try writing to it" when you can say "try writing, but
don't crash if there's no write method".  Simpler, robust, and much 
more flexible if someone wants to send in a non-File object which
fakes it.

For example, rather than checking that os.environ['COMSPEC'] is command.exe
and assuming if it's not you aren't on Win98, one should just check
for the external program needed and if it exists, run it.  If instead
you build in too much "smarts" by doing explicit checking, you'll
end up screwing people who have replaced command.exe with something
more useful, such as might happen with certain replacement shells.
They might not have COMSPEC set to command.exe, but unless you 
really are trying to run the standard Win98 command.exe file, you
don't really care about that.  What you care is whether the action
you are trying to take will work or not.  So try taking the action
and catch any exceptions.

(Yes, there are times when you do need to check explicitly,
but they're probably rarer than one might think.)

-Peter


From msx at crs4.it  Thu Mar 14 10:07:39 2002
From: msx at crs4.it (Federico Caboni)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:07:39 +0100
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it> <Qy2k8.377386$Aw2.31139131@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <B8B67B4B.B6F%msx@crs4.it>

On 14-03-2002 15:35, in article
Qy2k8.377386$Aw2.31139131 at bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com, "Brett g Porter"
<BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com> wrote:


[SNIP]

> The second edition (updated to Python 2.1) has been available for some time
> now. I second the recommendation.
> 

Wow....that's cool...I'll buy it then.
I found that book the most useful thing to keep in my desktop while coding
w/python (except maybe coffee ;) )

Thanks a lot 

  ____  ____  ____  _  _     ____  _  _  ____
 / ___)| __ \/ ___)/ /| |   / ___)| \| |/ ___) Federico Caboni (msx at crs4.it)
| (___ |    /\___ \\__  | * \___ \|    |\___ \ Software & Network Solutions
 \____)|_|\_\(____/   |_|   (____/|_|\_|(____/ Phone: +39 070 2796 368
  CRS4, Center for Adv. Studies, Research and Development in Sardinia



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 03:34:38 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:34:38 +0000
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org> wrote:

>
>I have vague memories of adding PythonWin to the Python CVS tree being
>suggested on python-dev long ago.  Wonder if that idea should be
>revived for 2.3?
>
Absolutely. All of Mark's Win32 stuff are pretty much essential to
many Windows users now, I would guess.

Updating the distro package would be nice too: Add a few handy
registry tweaks, such as setting PATHEXT properly, and a nice HTML
Windows help file (chm) and we'd have a nice slick package.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Mar 13 07:59:28 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:59:28 +0100
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6nifr$eob$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 11 Mar 2002 07:31:55 -0800, drevenhaug at hotmail.com (Graz Bukanoff)
wrote:

>Is Python an object based programming langauge?

Short answer:

Yes, but at least for me there can be some confusion originating from
factors that have to do with graphical user interfaces.

Long answer:

Some modern programming IDE's (integrated development environments)
are trying to adapt the way user thinks to the way the computer works.
A computer is a thing that is in an infinite loop where sometimes
events can trigger certain actions. 

For example in the old days of Borland Pascal or Borland C it was easy
to write a program that did certain things and then exited. 

Now with modern Delphi or C++ Builder its a real accomplishment to
write such a program. It goes directly against the paradigm of always
creating a form (a form is a container for graphical objects) whether
one needs one or not, and since forms are reacting to events one has
to generate an exiting event. In this view it's also natural to view
graphical things on the screen as objects, and to have objects react
to events. (user clicks button)

This idea has become very pervasive and can  be seen in other IDE's
that are of the GUI kind (graphical user interface). In python most of
the time objects are not connected to graphical elements on the
screen. In Delphi, C++ Builder and Visual Basic there are also non
graphical objects, but these IDE's *start* with graphical objects and
introduce other objects later. 

In python it is the other way around: It is possible to have graphical
objects and infinite loops and events but a starting python script is
often more like the "old" way of programming. This makes it easy to
try things out. Complex loops and graphics can be added later.

Both ways of designing programs have some advantages. Different ways
of viewing objects -as graphics reacting to events or as
datacontainers reacting to methodcalls-  can be appropriate. A program
can be nongraphic but still be object oriented and reacting to events,
for example a webserver. The resulting confusion sometimes leads to
not recognizing the object oriented (or object based?) nature of other
language-IDE combinations.

On the other hand its entirely possible that the source of the
confusion is something completely different.

Anton.


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Fri Mar  8 00:54:37 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:54:37 +0900
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
References: <mailman.1015530914.14111.python-list@python.org> <DcUh8.36711$nl1.5581667@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <mailman.1015550429.9885.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YaYh8.119$_Z4.1000@news.hananet.net>

Skip Montanaro scribbled with his keyboard:
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev 
>Darrell> Have you changed to acceptance criteria?
> 
> Yes, I believe python-dev has opened up.  Try subscribing again and see
> what happens. ;-)
> 

Deferred for administrator's approval.

Jonathan


From jason at jorendorff.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:34 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:43:34 -0600
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
In-Reply-To: <6Ytj8.10726$mp.48831@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEADDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Neil Hodgson wrote:
>    In my experience writing a lexer for Perl (for use in syntax styling
> editors), 'here documents' and arbitrary quote sequences add much 
> complexity to a lexer. [...]

(skeptical look)  Are you really claiming to have written a lexer
for Perl?  Is that even possible?

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 10 22:55:59 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:55:59 +1300
Subject: Integers class...?
References: <slrna8ffpo.dba.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <3C882BF0.B7B6A239@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <6qd6yf461k.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <3C8C2ACF.D7B2FEA@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> 
> Slices support a step parameter, so
> 
>     for x in int[9:-1:-1]:

I don't consider that a good solution, for
two reasons:

(1) I'm not sure what the semantics are of
slices with negative steps.  There are at 
least 4 equally plausible interpretations of 
[a:b:-c] if you count all the possible
combinations of endpoint swapping and 
open/closed swapping.

(2) Even if the semantics are well-defined,
it's too mind-bending remembering and applying
them correctly in any given situation. It's
no better than range(a,b,-c) in that respect.

This is one of the things I was trying to
address with for x <= i < y.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From not at all.com  Mon Mar 11 15:31:54 2002
From: not at all.com (Nom de Plume)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:31:54 -0800
Subject: Setting UNIX environment with a Python script
Message-ID: <3C8D143A.17963385@all.com>

I connect to about 10 different servers which are various platforms,
e.g. Irix, AIX, Solaris, HP-UX.  Each has different versions of Oracle
running on it with different SIDs based on what the others are using at
my work.  Each time I want to change SIDs, I have an Oracle environment
file which I source and it sets the appropriate shell variables, e.g.
ORACLE_HOME =, etc.

I have written a little menu in Python which will determine the host
that I am connected to and present all the Oracle Environment files for
that server, along with a corresponding numeric option so that I just
have to type '3' and enter and it will set my Oracle environment for
that session.

The only step left is sourcing the ora_env.[name] file from within
Python in a way such that the environment of the parent shell is
modified.  Anyone have any ideas?  I have tried:

src_cmd = 'source ' + ora_env.file
os.system ( src_cmd )

but it doesn't like that.



From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Mon Mar 25 17:45:55 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:45:55 GMT
Subject: pythonwin and raw_input
Message-ID: <DMNn8.12699$n8.8704@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

I could've swore I posted this yesterday, so please have mercy on my soul if
my news server is just messed up.

Does anyone know how to access the builtin raw_input function in pythonwin?
Pyhtonwin overrides it with a dialog box.  This doesn't work out too well
with the following:

import code
code.interact()



--
-





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 12:21:24 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:21:24 -0500
Subject: Thread blocking problem
References: <uaegdmkatlbf18@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a87gik$duo$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <uaegdmkatlbf18 at corp.supernews.com>,
Garyr <garyr at fidalgo.net> wrote:
>
>I have a program consisting primarily of a simple Tinker GUI and in separate
>thread some code that invokes a function in a C++ extension module that
>blocks on WaitForSingleObject most of the time. The Python code is a
>producer and the C++ code the consumer, a sound card driver.
>
>Shouldn't the GUI be responsive when the code in the thread is blocked?

Not unless you've released the Global Interpreter Lock.  See
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/threads.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 14 15:24:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 20:24:58 GMT
Subject: redirecting stdin with Python scripts under win2k (solution)
References: <ubsdsyn38.fsf@online.no> <9t119uo75apvom6ghje49fk21b5o325n99@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6r0uq$m84$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:38:52 +0000, Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:

>I'm sure you're very pleased with that but I don't see the point.
>
>If I want to run a Python program, I just type the name of it at a
>command prompt.
>
Yes, but that is not the key point of Syver's contribution.

>A few prerequisites need to be in place but some of these happen
>during install:
>
>1. The directory containing the script needs to be in your PATH
>environment var or be the current directory.
>2. PATHEXT environment var needs to contain ".PY;.PYC;.PYW"
>3. The Python exes need to be associated with the Python file types.
>
>Once you get all the above right, you just type:
>
>C:\> wibble args
>
>and it runs:
>
>"C:\Python21\python.exe" "wibble.py" args
>
You are missing the key point, which is about redirection of i/o.
If you tried to use your wibble thus:

    wibble args > outputfile

You would get a zero length output file on NT4.
Syver solved _that_ problem without using a separate wrapper.

I would have been pleased to have thought of it, especially since
I recently posted separate wrapping solutions. Plus, not long ago I
saw a post using a similar technique with a linux shell in a cgi
context, and I didn't make the connection. Syver either re-invented
that (for windows) or made the connection and reformulated it. Either
way, I think he deserves credit, not a comment like "I'm sure you're
very pleased with that ..."

>This only works with Win NT/2K/XP. As for 95/98/ME, well it's easier
>not to bother, really.
>
>Disguising your Python programs as batch files is going to knacker any
>attempt your editor may make to help with syntax highlighting and
>suchlike.
That may be a downside for editors that decide on the basis of file extension,
but you are not obligated to do all your scripts this way ;-)

Being able to invoke a script concisely and have its output
redirectable is something you want for full flexibility e.g. in putting
customized scripted build steps in the VC++ IDE for e.g., customizing
building Python from source on windows.

Being able to wrap without a separate file is a good thing IMO, although
for scripts that are supposed to be verbatim (e.g. signed etc) portable to
*nix, you'd want to continue using separate wrappers in windows.

<interesting side note>
If you use a hash, e.g. MD5, or PGP to sign/validate a script, should it
be based on canonicalizing to unix format (i.e., \n vs \r\n or \r)?
I imagine the XML folks must have decided something. ...but I don't have
time to google every stray question that pops to mind ;-)
</interesting side note>

>
>Also, FYI, I think all the command extensions you mention were
>introduced with NT 4.
Yes, the technique works on NT4, which pleases me ;-)
The cmd.exe batch command line syntax is really horrid, weak, and badly
documented though, so it's nice to be able to transition to Python in one line!

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sat Mar 30 02:38:01 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:38:01 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:28:21 PST."
             <3CA56915.62947DDC@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <E16rDR3-0006CG-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> >     Because the repr() or str() of a bool value is different from an
> >     int value, some code (for example doctest-based unit tests, and
> >     possibly database code that relies on things like "%s" % truth)
> >     may fail.  How much of a backwards compatibility problem this will
> >     be, I don't know.  If we this turns out to be a real problem, we
> >     could changes the rules so that str() of a bool returns "0" or
> >     "1", while repr() of a bool still returns "False" or "True".
>
> Where is the backward compatibility problem for using bool?  At present,
> no one uses it, so none of their types will be bools (right?).  Even if
> they happen to use the values True and False (or whatever gets adopted),
> those can be overridden just like None, so if they define and use them
> they should get their values, not Python's.  Right?

The value of `"%s" (not x, )` is going to change. Any code depending
on the old way will break.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From wurmy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 05:09:54 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:09:54 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net>

Eric Brunel wrote:
> 
> Hans Nowak wrote:
> > It's not April 1st yet...
> 
> Considering Brad's article was posted on 2001-07-02, it certainly wasn't at
> that time... ;-)
> Can anyone using a recent version of Microsoft development tools confirm
> whether it's a hoax or not? If it isn't, this is bad news...
>  - eric -

It sure smells like a hoax. I mean, really:

"""Microsoft has only been able to achieve this position of
near hegemony on the implicit premise that its products and tools
would always remain open and unrestricted in their usage. If
Microsoft had ever tried to thwart its competition by legally or
technologically preventing competitive software from running on
their systems or being built with their tools, then they would
have been unlikely to have retained customers or to have grown so
dominant."""

"Open and unrestricted"? It sure seems ludicrous to see these
words in the same sentence with "Microsoft".

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 28 22:58:56 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 03:58:56 GMT
Subject: mutliple search and replace
References: <Kwpo8.18614$EE4.60649@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <a7tuks$o582t$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <a7u7je$s7f$0@216.39.172.122> <a80hr3$mb5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a80oq0$av7$0@216.39.172.122>

On 29 Mar 2002 02:00:03 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>Here is something to deal with the key order problem (i.e., if one
>key is a substring of another. You have to sort by length to get
>maximal or minimal matching. This is for maximal:
>
> >>> def dirinterp(s,d):
> ...     import re
> ...     klist = [(-len(k),k) for k in d.keys()]
> ...     klist.sort()
> ...     resp = re.compile('('+'|'.join([k for l,k in klist])+')')
> ...     return ''.join([kv.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
                          ^^--oops, that worked because of a leftover global ;-/
> ...
> >>> subdir = {"sub":"<was sub>","substring":"<was substring>"}
> >>> dirinterp("Will sub or substring be replaced?",subdir)
> 'Will <was sub> or <was substring> be replaced?'
> >>> dirinterp("Will substring or sub be replaced?",subdir)
> 'Will <was substring> or <was sub> be replaced?'
>
>This is hardly tested at all, but I guess it could be handy.
Must run in fresh interpreter before posting ;-/

 >>> from miscutil import subbydict
 >>> d={'x':'A', 'xx':'B','xxx':'C'}
 >>> s='xxxxxx xxxx xxx xx x'
 >>> subbydict(s,d)
 'CC CA C B A'
 >>> s='xxxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xx x'
 >>> subbydict(s,d)
 'CC CB CA C B A'

where name changed and kv->d

def subbydict(s,d):
    import re
    klist = [(-len(k),k) for k in d.keys()]
    klist.sort()
    resp = re.compile('('+'|'.join([k for l,k in klist])+')')
    return ''.join([d.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Thu Mar  7 11:47:12 2002
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:47:12 GMT
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3c879853.166102962@news>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:12:09 -0500, Ramkumar Kashyap
<rkashyap at sympatico.ca> wrote:

>I find that most introductory books approach programming in a 
>non-intuitive manner and lose out on a big chunk of their audience. 
> Only a few of us that persevere, end up learning the language and even 
>fewer go on to achieve "GURU" status. Why is this?
>
>I have seen several posts on CLP and the newbie tutors list, where 
>people mention that their first encounter with programming was in BASIC, 
>COBOL, Pascal, Fortran.  They did not really make any progress, gave up 
>on programming.  Now they are attempting once again, hoping things have 
>become a little easier.
>
>I would like to know how the pattern was set to teach programming 
>languages.  You do an introductory program like "Hello World", learn how 
>to compile and run it. Then jump into decision structures, loops, 
>functions, etc.
>
>This is extremely non-intuitive to most people.  Most 5,6,7 year olds 
>can speak fluently in their native languages, but how many of them could 
>tell you about vowels, consonants, nouns, verbs, adjectives.  In fact 
>quite a few of them speak multiple languages, can easily differentiate 
>sentence structures in those languages, but would be hard-pressed to 
>give defintions of the above.
>
>So how come in programming, we ALWAYS jump into the constructs of a 
>language, rather than just doing, gaining proficiency and then 
>understanding how it is put together?

Because a child can make himself understood even though he's speaking
with atrocious grammar, while invalid code doesn't do anything but
generate an error message?

>I think that unless the approach to teaching Programming languages, is 
>changed and follows the more universal style of teaching spoke language 
>or verbal communication, Computer Programming for Everybody will remain 
>a dream.



David C. Ullrich


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar  8 09:08:15 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 06:08:15 -0800
Subject: Turn string into function call
References: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x1yevxicw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

nbecker at fred.net (N Becker) writes:

> What's the best way to turn a string naming a function into a function call?
> 
> I used this:
> eval (funcname + '()')

vars()[funcname]() might be a little safer.


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  6 16:26:12 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:26:12 -0800
Subject: Threading help?
In-Reply-To: <3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
	<3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>
Message-ID: <20020306132612.4a5d756a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:39:19 +0100
Ype Kingma wrote:

> VanL wrote:
> > I need three threads (at least):
> > 
> > 1. Every .1 second, retrieves some data via http from an adjacent
> > machine on the network.  Easy enough with urllib.
> > 2. Do processing on that data
> > 3. Every .1 second, be ready to spit out the most recent results from
> > the processing in response to an http query.  I've got the latest
medusa
> > distribution, and I was thinking about using that.   It doesn't really
> > matter, though.

> What would you gain from using separate threads for task 1 and 2, ie.
> what's the point of getting new data (task 1) before the processing on
that
> data (task 2) has finished?

One good reason to use threads in this context is to ensure that the
network port gets serviced in a timely fashion.  How long the processing is
expected to take is the deciding factor in whether threads are appropriate.
 In this case, the OP wants to service the port every .1s.  What if the
processing takes longer than .1s?

> Assuming you combine task 1 and 2 in a single thread B, that thread
should
> yield a few times during your 0.1 second period to allow an evt.
execution
> of task 3 in thread C. In case you have thread priorities available 
> you can give C a higher priority instead of yielding in B.
> 
> In case you decide to have task 1 in a separate thread A you 
> can treat A as C. You might need to yield more often in B with two
> other threads instead of one.
> 
> A simple reference to the last available processing result
> can be shared between any pair of threads. Make sure to 
> copy the reference (not the last result itself) in the receiver.

The approach I would take, based upon the information given, is to have
thread A retrieve the data every .1s (using time.sleep),  when the data is
retrieved, put it on a Queue and go back to sleep.  Thread B blocks on the
Queue until data is available.  When data becomes available, B processes
that data and place it on a second Queue for thread C (thread C handling
HTTP requests) to deal with.

Whether this will occur within the time constraints is difficult to say. 
However, if thread C is simply serving HTTP requests, I imagine it could
simply resend the last processed data if no new data is available when the
request comes in.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From ponderor at lycos.com  Mon Mar 18 09:36:41 2002
From: ponderor at lycos.com (Dean Goodmanson)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 08:36:41 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 18)
Message-ID: <86AF6DCEFA992F8B.4CD196BCE4C4A45A.75D2F5BCF712DA37@lp.airnews.net>

QOTW:  [Cross Platform Environment Tips]  "I'd really recommend that
you vary quite frequently your tune selection (there's some good
Internet radio stations if your mp3 collection isn't large enough).
There's nothing worse than ruining a great CD because hearing it
reminds you of some awful project you worked on." - Dave Brueck
http://groups.google.com/groups?start=175&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&group=comp.lang.python&selm=mailman.1015952421.10168.python-list%40python.org

"I'm pretty sure it's because the hobbits were all wiped out after
Sauron rose again and conquered Middle Earth, imposing the Unified
Mordorian Calendar system across much of the planet until the changes
made by Pope Gregory in 1582." - Peter Hansen


    PEP 279 updates Enhanced Generators.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?start=175&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&group=comp.lang.python&selm=mailman.1015961402.6720.clpa-moderators%40python.org
    Now version 1.6
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0279.html

    NormalDate 1.2 Released! Historical Calendar Discussion Ensues.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&threadm=Xns91D08815184B2svenaxelssonbokochwe%40212.37.1.234&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D25%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26oe%3DISO-8859-1%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python%26start%3D150

    python 2.2 bug encounter
        http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&frame=right&th=bd7e08291b334261&seekm=3C8E54C4.7030506%40livinglogic.de#link1

    print to stream to multiple objects:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&threadm=mailman.1015962446.10330.python-list%40python.org&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D25%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26oe%3DISO-8859-1%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python%26start%3D175

    Text Indexing and compression discussion
        http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&threadm=mailman.1015976905.21484.python-list%40python.org&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D25%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26oe%3DISO-8859-1%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python%26start%3D150

   A thread on an English thesaurus and dictionary for python is 
   particularly cool.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=3c477063910da12e

    Vinay Sajip proposes a standard logging module for Python.
        http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0282.html

    The secret labs releases Python Imaging Library, v1.1.3.  "Version
    1.1.3 adds distutils build scripts, improved resampling, screen
    grabbing support (windows only), and more."
        http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

    Lars Gust?bel's tarfile module provides a zipfile-like interface
    for reading and writing TAR files.
        http://www.gustaebel.de/lars/tarfile/

    David Mertz posts an early draft of his book in progress,
    <i>Text Processing in Python</i>.
        http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/

    PythonCard 0.6.4 "includes walkthroughs to get you started with
    PythonCard, an improved layout editor..., and new samples that use
    SOAP and XML-RPC (Blogger API)."
        http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

    Mike C. Fletcher calculates sunrise and sunset times.
        http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/programming/sunriseset.py

    Yet another conversation on Embedding Python in Server Side Web
    Development, this one someone without early mention of Zope *or*
    the recent ASP articles.
       http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&threadm=23891c90.0203130444.3d8a1a3b%40posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D25%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26oe%3DISO-8859-1%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python%26start%3D150

    Grant Edwards' question on packaging ends with an inspiring testimonial.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&frame=right&th=16b685ee49ea98f2&seekm=slrna8qr56.16e.grante%40tuxtop.visi.com#link19
    
    
========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
	 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continued Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week, into July 2001.  Any volunteers to re-start this
    valuable series?
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
	http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com
     
    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Tenth International Python Conference 
        http://www.python10.org            

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 11 15:51:10 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:51:10 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <OFA6C02834.F493473F-ON88256B79.006B6868@i2.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEIGODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[James_Althoff at i2.com]
> ...
> But if your protocol is
>     def getRowCount(): pass
>     def getColumnCount(): pass
>     def getValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
>     def setValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
> then that option is not available.

Hmm.  The inability to pass a new value to setValueAt seems to make this a
little feeble <wink>.

Depending on how much overhead you're willing to bear, it's straightfoward
to write wrapper classes (even using the old for/__getitem__ protocol) such
that, e.g., adding 1 to every element in a table could be expressed via

t = Table(original_table)
for r in t.rows():
    for e in r.elements():
        e.set(e.get() + 1)

Short of that, you could at least reduce the clumsiness by defining helper
functions, like (assuming these are 0-based indices; fiddle to taste):

def ri(table):
    "Return row indices for table."
    return range(table.getRowCount())

def ci(table):
    "Return column indices for table."
    return range(table.getColumnCount())

and then

columns = ci(table)
for i in ri(table):
    for j in columns:
         table.setValueAt(i, j, table.getValueAt(i, j) + 1)

would save some typing yet be just as quick.  Add

def getter(table):
    "Return bound table.GetValueAt."
    return table.GetValueAt

def setter(table):
    "Return bound table.SetValueAt."
    return table.SetValueAt

and then

get, set = getter(table), setter(table)
columns = ci(table)
for i in ri(table):
    for j in columns:
         set(i, j, get(i, j) + 1)

would be about as fast as you can get in Python, short of defining a custom
"add 1 to element and then store it back" function.

If you're very concerned about speed, when you've got a choice the loop with
the largest trip count should be innermost (as true in Python as in any
other language, although this is clawing at what are usually third-order
effects).




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 05:40:45 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:40:45 +0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <yRZ9DiAtq1f8EwnV@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

OK to be more precise I'm executing like this


Python 2.1.2 (#31, Jan 15 2002, 17:28:11) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> import sys
...
>>> cmd
'"C:\\Program Files\\ReportLab\\Demo\\rml2pdf.exe" "C:\\Program Files\\ReportLab\\Demo\\rlextra\\pageCatcher\\PageCatchI
ntro.rml" --outdir="C:\\Program Files\\ReportLab\\Demo\\Doc"'
>>> i, o = os.popen4(cmd,'t')
>>> t = o.read()
>>> print t
'C:\Program' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

>>>

I can run the command directly
C:\Program Files\ReportLab\Demo>"C:\\Program Files\\ReportLab\\Demo\\rml2pdf.exe" "C:\\Program Files\\ReportLab\\Demo\\r
lextra\\pageCatcher\\PageCatchIntro.rml" --outdir="C:\\Program Files\\ReportLab\\Demo\\Doc"

C:\Program Files\ReportLab\Demo>

so somewhere something odd is happening.

This is win2k.
-- 
Robin Becker


From ponderor at lycos.com  Mon Mar  4 15:03:02 2002
From: ponderor at lycos.com (Dean Goodmanson)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 12:03:02 -0800
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com> <a5sb2n$f2j$1@news.idiom.com> <gherman-8DACFF.16414204032002@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <e81be8b2.0203041203.42895122@posting.google.com>

> I wonder how much interest there would be in a revival?
> 
> Dinu

YES!  
I've found Python to be an excellent learning environment for personal
development in software engineering and computer science.

Especially since the advent of 
href="http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIPython"
Bruce Eckel's _Thinking in Python_ 

and 
http://vig.pearsoned.com/store/product/0,,store-562_banner-0_isbn-0130409561,00.html"
Thomas Christopher's _Python Programming Patterns_ 

Best Regards, 

Dean


From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 03:49:36 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 03:49:36 -0500
Subject: Need feedback - What are the elements of a good hosting service?
References: <mailman.1015453691.11413.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <83lmcnhbdr.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
>     * Though their Acceptable Use Policy said they'd consider long-running
>       programs on a case-by-case basis,

That's kind of a danger sign, isn't it?

>     * My almost idle webserver was getting lots of clear breakin attempts -
>       accesses to paths like /scripts/..%255c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe.

That's Nimda.

>       I reported this to them and suggested it would be not much
>       more difficult for them to block and report such malicious
>       accesses for their entire suite of servers than for me to
>       block on an IP-by-IP basis.

With what?  You think they might have a ServerIron or a LocalDirector
in a back closet, not being used?

>       After several go-rounds I finally got a note from one of their
>       sysadmins indicating they would block on the machine my
>       virtual server resides on.  No word on actually reporting the
>       bad guys.

You want them to report instances of Nimda infection?  They're going
to be awfully busy.

> How do other peoples' experiences jive with mine?  What do you feel it
> important to ask going into the process over and above what I've referred to
> as the "primary questions"?  Do you agree that those that seem important to
> me are actually of general importance?

The questions that seem important to you are of general importance.
They are the reasons I do not host web sites where I do not have root
or personally know someone who does.



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:26:59 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:26:59 -0500
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017002737.5697.python-list@python.org> <3C9E53D8.4FA20F3D@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017012639.11096.python-list@python.org> <3C9E7326.C3FD53DF@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017055178.31509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9FC053.29071985@engcorp.com>

holger at trillke.net wrote:
> 
> The Agent "servers" don't do much on themselves
> but instead leave it to agents to provide "framework" and protocol
> capabilities. So to decouple the agents i would probably
> introduce a "RelationShip"-Agent managing couplings between
> them.

Exactly the approach I would take.  Make the environment
(I use that term to mean the surroundings for the agent)
act as a proxy to any other agents that one agent wants to
talk to, thus ensuring all agents run isolated from the 
others and, coincidentally, forcing them to call through
your environment when necessary, thus giving you the 
ability to intercept those calls and even terminate
the agent by raising an exception (provided they don't
blindly ignore such exceptions).  Phew... sorry for the
run-on sentence...

> > a low-performance hack until you have time to implement the
> > modification in the interpreter :-), which would be to
> > stick a flag check into a routine inserted with sys.settrace().
> 
> interesting suggestion! Doesn't this cause a lot of overhead unless
> done in C? 

Oh very likely!  I did say it was "low-performance".  Just a 
thought that might give you some ideas.

-Peter


From mmiller3 at iupui.edu  Wed Mar 13 17:17:08 2002
From: mmiller3 at iupui.edu (Michael A. Miller)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 17:17:08 -0500
Subject: python and analyze image format?
References: <mailman.1016045606.17698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87n0xcgljv.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>

>>>>> "Steven" == Steven Majewski <sdm7g at virginia.edu> writes:

    > Are you referring to the Mayo Foundation's "Analyze" ?

That's the one. 


From alien275 at libertysurf.fr  Fri Mar  1 12:21:13 2002
From: alien275 at libertysurf.fr (Riss Nicolas)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:21:13 +0100
Subject: Ping
Message-ID: <a5od3d$9gc$1@wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour,
on ma dit que je pouvais ?crire en francais alors j'?crit en francais. Je
voudrais pouvoir v?rifier toutes les 5 min que une machine ping une autre
machine et si elle ne ping pas qu'elle execute un script. Comment faut il
faire avec python pour pinger une machine et v?rifier qu'elle r?pond??

Merci de votre aide.




From dwelch91 at attbi.com  Fri Mar  8 23:31:10 2002
From: dwelch91 at attbi.com (djw)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:31:10 GMT
Subject: Python and computer graphics
References: <3C8785EA.5010509@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <iegi8.7264$ZR2.3882@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

www.vpython.org maybe?

D

"husam" <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in message
news:3C8785EA.5010509 at student.kun.nl...
> hi,
> can anybody points me to usefull resources (books, urls) about using
> python for computer graphics that help for building skills in this
> subject from scrash?
>
> thanks in advance
>




From erik.wilsher at iname.com  Wed Mar 13 02:54:18 2002
From: erik.wilsher at iname.com (erik_w)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 23:54:18 -0800
Subject: python -c cmd bug?
Message-ID: <e7e4eac4.0203122354.6fdf3324@posting.google.com>

When I do 
>python -c "import sys;print sys.argv"
['-c']

(Python 2.1.2 on NT4)

Is this the right behaviour?  I would expect that the -c was an option
to the python interpreter, not to my script.

If I do 
>python -O -c "import sys;print sys.argv"
['-c']

the -O switch is not reflected in sys.argv


    BR
    EW


From MaximilianScherr at t-online.de  Mon Mar  4 12:39:56 2002
From: MaximilianScherr at t-online.de (Maximilian Scherr)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:39:56 +0100
Subject: server problems (long post)
References: <a5m66j+lg39@eGroups.com> <20020228141109.1fe13f7c.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1c3a3$999a5b00$0a00a8c0@maximilian1>

Hello,

I'm sorry, that i post this here, but i really have no clue why it doesn't
work, how it could work...
so i post my code on the list, and cry for help:) So if anyone can tell me
to get this server(engine) to work I would be very happy.

Here's the hex string the server receives(it's originaly in binary):
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Here's my code:

import os.path
import os
import threading
import SocketServer
import binascii
import string

class Program:
    def Start(self):
        ucisfile = os.path.isfile('uoslserver.cfg')
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        pcinfohandler.CheckFile()
        ohandler = OHandler()
        ohandler.CheckFile()
        if ucisfile == 0:
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t find uoslserver.cfg!')

        elif ucisfile == 1:
            readuc = open('uoslserver.cfg')
            try:
                address = eval(readuc.readline())
                try:
                    ohandler.WriteO('Starting up...')
                    ihandler = IHandler()
                    serverthread = Server(address)
                    serverthread.setName('serverthread')
                    ihandlerthread = threading.Thread(None, ihandler.ReadI)
                    ihandlerthread.start()
                    serverthread.start()
                    ohandler.WriteO('...finished!')

                except:
                    ohandler.WriteO('...aborted!')

            except:
                ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read uoslserver.cfg')

class OHandler:
    def CheckFile(self):
        ulisfile = os.path.isfile('uoslserver.log')
        if ulisfile == 0:
            writeul = open('uoslserver.log', 'w')
            writeul.close()

        elif ulisfile == 1:
            os.remove('uoslserver.log')
            writeul = open('uoslserver.log', 'w')
            writeul.close()

    def WriteO(self, string):
        writeul = open('uoslserver.log', 'a')
        print string
        writeul.write(string +'\n')
        writeul.close()

class Server(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self, address):
        self.address = address
        self.serverstate = 1
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, None, self.Start)

    def Start(self):
        server = SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer(self.address,
RequestHandler)
        while self.serverstate == 1:
            server.handle_request()

    def ShutDown(self):
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        pcinfohandler.SetInfoAll()
        functionhandler = FunctionHandler()
        for op in functionhandler.ListOnlinePlayers():
            op.Close()

        self.serverstate = 0

class RequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        clienthandlerthread = ClientHandler(self.request)
        clienthandlerthread.start()

class ClientHandler(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self, sockobj):
        self.sockobj = sockobj
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, None, self.Recv)

    def Recv(self):
        datahandler = DataHandler()
        while self.sockobj:
            data = self.sockobj.recv(1024)
            returnvalue = datahandler.Start(data, self.sockobj)
            if returnvalue != 0:
                self.setName(returnvalue[0])
                self.pcname = returnvalue[1]
                self.pcpass = returnvalue[2]
                self.pcx = returnvalue[3]
                self.pcy = returnvalue[4]
                self.pcz = returnvalue[5]
                self.pcdir = returnvalue[6]

        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        pcinfohandler.SetInfoSingle(self.getName(), self.pcname,
self.pcpass, self.pcx, self.pcy, self.pcz, self.pcdir)
        ohandler = OHandler()
        ohandler.WriteO(self.pcname +' logged off!')

    def Close(self):
        self.sockobj.close()
        pcinfohandler.SetInfoSingle(self.getName(), self.pcname,
self.pcpass, self.pcx, self.pcy, self.pcz, self.pcdir)
        ohandler = OHandler()
        ohandler.WriteO(self.pcname +' logged off!')

class DataHandler:
    def Start(self, data, sockobj):
        converteddata = binascii.b2a_hex(data)
        if converteddata[:4] == 'fe01':
            pcserial = converteddata[8:16]
            pcname = string.replace(converteddata[24:340], '00', '')
            pcname = chr(int(pcname, 16))
            pcpass = string.replace(converteddata[1116:1190], '00', '')
            pcpass = chr(int(pcpass, 16))
            pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
            returnvalue = pcinfohandler.GetInfo(pcserial)
            functionhandler = FunctionHandler()
            ohandler = OHandler()
            if returnvalue != 0:
                if functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 0:
                    sockobj.close()
                    return 0

                elif functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 1:
                    ohandler.WriteO(pcname +' logged on from client address
'+ sockobj.getsockname())
                    return returnvalue

            elif returnvalue == 0:
                if functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 0:
                    sockobj.close()
                    return 0

                elif functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 1:
                    ohandler.WriteO(pcname +' logged on from client address
'+ sockobj.getsockname())
                    return [pcserial, pcname, pcpass, 554, 576, 0, 0]

        else:
            return 0

class FunctionHandler:
    def CheckPass(self, pcserial, pcpass):
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        returnvalue = pcinfohandler.GetInfo(pcserial)
        threadhandler = ThreadHandler()
        if returnvalue != 0:
            for pcinfo in returnvalue:
                for op in self.ListOnlinePlayers():
                    if op.pcpass != pcpass or pcinfo[2] != pcpass:
                        return 0

                    elif pcinfo[2] == pcpass:
                        return 1

        elif returnvalue == 0 and threadhandler.GetThreadObj(pcserial) != 0:
            return 0

        elif returnvalue == 0 and threadhandler.GetThreadObj(pcserial) == 0:
            return 1

    def ListOnlinePlayers(self):
        oplist = []
        for threadobj in threading.enumerate():
            if threadobj.getName() != 'server':
                oplist.append(threadobj)

        return oplist

class PCInfoHandler:
    def CheckFile(self):
        pdisfile = os.path.isfile(os.getcwd() + '\\data\\pc.dat')
        if pdisfile == 0:
            writepd = open(os.getcwd() + '\\data\\pc.dat', 'w')
            writepd.write('[]')
            writepd.close()

    def GetInfo(self, pcserial):
        readpd = open(os.getcwd() + '\\data\\pc.dat', 'r')
        pcinfolist = readpd.readline()
        readpd.close()
        try:
            pcinfolist = eval(pcinfolist)
            for pcinfo in pcinfolist:
                if pcinfo[0] != pcserial:
                    return 0

                elif pcinfo[0] == pcserial:
                    return pcinfo

        except:
            ohandler = OHandler()
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read pc.dat')

    def SetInfoSingle(self, pcserial, pcname, pcpass, pcx, pcy, pcz, pcdir):
        readpd = open(os.getcwd() + '\\data\\pc.dat', 'r')
        pcinfolist = readpd.readline()
        readpd.close()
        try:
            pcinfolist = eval(pcinfolist)
            for pcinfo in pcinfolist:
                if pcinfo[0] != pcserial:
                    pcinfolist.append[[pcserial, pcname, pcpass, pcx, pcy,
pcz, pcdir]]

                elif pcinfo[0] == pcserial:
                    pcinfolist.remove(pcinfo)
                    pcinfolist.append[[pcserial, pcname, pcpass, pcx, pcy,
pcz, pcdir]]

        except:
            ohandler = OHandler()
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read pc.dat')

        writepd = open(os.getcwd() + '\\data\\pc.dat', 'w')
        writepd.write(str(pcinfolist))
        writepd.close()

    def SetInfoAll(self):
        readpd = open(os.getcwd() + '\\data\\pc.dat', 'r')
        pcinfolist = readpd.readline()
        readpd.close()
        try:
            pcinfolist = eval(pcinfolist)
            for pcinfo in pcinfolist:
                functionhandler = FunctionHandler()
                for op in functionhandler.ListOnlinePlayers():
                    if op.getName() == pcinfo[0]:
                        pcinfolist.remove(pcinfo)
                        pcinfolist.append[[op.getName(), op.pcname,
op.pcpass, op.pcx, op.pcy, op.pcz, op.pcdir]]

        except:
            ohandler = OHandler()
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read pc.dat')

        writepd = open(os.getcwd() + '\\data\\pc.dat', 'w')
        writepd.write(str(pcinfolist))
        writepd.close()

class ThreadHandler:
    def GetThreadObj(self, threadname):
        for threadobj in threading.enumerate():
            if threadobj.getName() == threadname:
                return threadobj

            else:
                ohandler = OHandler()
                ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t find thread with name \''+
threadname +'\'!')
                return 0

class IHandler:
    def ReadI(self):
        ihandlerstate = 1
        ohandler = OHandler()
        while ihandlerstate == 1:
            input = raw_input()
            if input == 'c':
                ohandler.WriteO('Input: '+ input)
                ohandler.WriteO('Valid commands:')
                ohandler.WriteO('c -- show this list')
                ohandler.WriteO('s -- shut down')

            elif input == 's':
                ohandler.WriteO('Input: '+ input)
                ohandler.WriteO('Shutting down...')
                ihandlerstate = 0
                threadhandler = ThreadHandler()
                serverthread = threadhandler.GetThreadObj('serverthread')
                serverthread.ShutDown()
                ohandler.WriteO('...finished!')

program = Program()
program.Start()



Thanks in advance,

Max




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Fri Mar 15 10:28:48 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:28:48 +0200
Subject: Which class method will be used when calling it?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203151707020.11324-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

Hi,

Let's define classes

class A:
  def f(self): pass         # define default method f

class B(A):
  def f(self): pass         # define specific method f

class B1(B): pass           # specific B.f is available

class C(A): pass            # no specific method f, default is available

and instances:

a = A()
b = B()
b1 = B1()
c = C()

Given one of these instances, how to tell which method will be called, 
the default f or a specific f, if calling <instance>.f()?

To make my question clearer, I need the following codelet

  if <x.f is A.f>: pass
  else: x.f()

So that if x=b or x=b1, then its method f is called. But if x=a or x=c,
then the pass statement is executed. 

A special solution would be

  <x.f is A.f>  = hasattr(x.__class__,'f')

but it only works if certain conditions are satisfied (x.__class__ is
directly derived from A). It obviously fails in the b1 case.

Are there less restrictive solutions available under Python 2.2?


Thanks,
	Pearu



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar 21 12:49:22 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 17:49:22 GMT
Subject: FastCGI
References: <a7cdh1$bte$1@minotaurus.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9k792.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a7cdh1$bte$1 at minotaurus.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de>, 
	Johannes Stiehler wrote:
> Is there anybody out there who uses python together with fastcgi for
> realizing large scale applications. And if so, which FastCGI-Wrapper
> is the most recommendable?  

We haven't had any problems with fcgi.py.  The copy of fcgi.py hiding
inside Quixote has had a few minor bugfixes and some minor
optimization (using the struct module for packing and unpacking data,
for example).  mod_fastcgi, on the other hand, seems to be subject to
occasional random hangs that occurred once every few weeks.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Is this thing reliable?
    -- Grace, asking about the TARDIS, in "The Enemy Within"


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 17:54:52 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:54:52 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OFAE784C83.28098E73-ON88256B73.007CFCC0@i2.com>

[David Eppstein]
>[James_Althoff]
>
> > And note again also, that (the equivalent of)
> >
> >     def __contains__(self,x):
> >         raise TypeError
> >
> > could be added to class int if the anguish proved to be
> > insurmountable <0.1 wink>.
>
> That would cause me much more anguish than even PEP 276 in
> its present form.

Right.  So we have a clear choice between "anguish" and "much more
anguish";  I will note that in the PEP <wink> (sorry Tim D. ;-).

> I really like the fact that "for ...stuff..." loops over exactly those
> values for which "...stuff..." is true.

I know you do.  And I can appreciate that.

> I don't want to see that broken.

Jim




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Mar 13 13:31:07 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:31:07 +0000
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <mailman.1016042063.7531.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tf6v8u40aqikddq19jfnugo7tm83v0gpo0@4ax.com>

On 13 Mar 2002 12:53:50 -0500, com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A.
Craig) wrote:

>Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> writes:
>
>> For starters, range (and xrange) is a perfectly sensible, reasonable and
>> useful built-in. But the biggest use I make of it is in iterating through
>> a list, e.g. as in
>> 
>> for index in range(len(mylist)):
>>     <whatever>
>> 
>> and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
>> sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
>> myself doing this quite often.
>
>I don't understand how range is a reasonable and useful built-in if
>this use is not.  

There are other useful, reasonable and sensible uses for the range
built-in. My comment is that this particular use looks warty to me
because any sequence, especially if it obeys the "list-protocol" (that
is, it has methods like __getitem__, __setitem__, etc.) should be able
to generate the indexes (or keys) of its members. Just like a
dictionary.

>
>If you have a list [2, 3, 5, 7, 11] and you want to iterate through it
>you don't need range:
>
>for item in list: 
>  <work on items>
>
>If, on the other hand, you want to iterate though the indicies of said
>list rather than the items themselves you need to come up with some
>way to generate a zero based list of integers up to one less than the
>size of the list (i.e. a list of indicies).  When you create this list
>you aren't doubling information that the list already has.  A list
>does not contain a list of indicies into itself.  The list knows its
>elements, in order, and how many elements it has.  From this you can
>generate a list of indicies, but there are no 'keys' stored in a list
>object like there are in a dictionary.

This is where I beg to disagree. If the elements are in order, as they
are in a list, it is perfectly reasonable to ask, "you are a list,
right? then hand me the indexes of your members." If the list has the
keys in memory or not, that is an implementation issue.

Prolly the best way to implement this is to add a single method
(iteritems?) that gives an iterator through the indices.

>
>To go from the information that is stored in the list (an ordered list
>of elements, and the size of said list) to the information you need to
>iterate through indicies (an ordered sequence of indicies valid for the
>given list) you need to take the length of the list (N), and create a
>new list of N integers from 0 to N-1.  'range(len(mylist))' says
>precisely that.  I don't see how this is the least bit kludgey.
>
>.keys() and .items() methods on lists seem odd to me.  That is
>inforamtion that the list does not contain.  Sure it can easily be
>generated given information the list does contain, but why can't the
>programmer generate it himself from the same information?

Of course the programmer can do it for himself. But since the idiom
expounded in my post seems to be prevalent it would be at least
reasonable to make it a built-in.

Best regards,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au  Mon Mar 18 23:44:48 2002
From: jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au (Jamie Carl)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:44:48 GMT
Subject: Serial Ports
Message-ID: <3c96c220$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

Hi all,

    I'm still fairly new to Python so forgive me.  I'm hoping someone can
point in the right direction regarding how I would go about accessing a
serial com port from Python.  I'd like to do it mainly under Linux, but
hopefully it will work under windows aswell.

Is it possible?  Can someone point me to some documentation or code samples?

Thanks in advance.

Jamie Carl




From andy at reportlab.com  Fri Mar  8 15:42:10 2002
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:42:10 GMT
Subject: Autodiscovery of proxy settings from a python script
References: <R%5i8.1615$K%4.11598019@news-text.cableinet.net> <7EHvmJAipQi8Ew$x@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <YFx3GIA6KRi8EwK8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Cm9i8.314$S96.2203801@news-text.cableinet.net>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YFx3GIA6KRi8EwK8 at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
> in fact inside urllib there seems to be some support built in for the
> registry attack under nt.
>
> ie urllib.getproxies() is supposed to return a dictionary mapping
> services to proxies urls. Doesn't on my machine though.
> --
Mine neither.  Does anyone get anything back from this on win32?  I am
hampered in my researcg by not actually being behind a corporate firewall
for a change :-)

- Andy






From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 17:16:15 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:16:15 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <3C8DFF7B.7EF0EAC6@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <9dvs8u8aulpr2ceppipnakdk78e9bipneo@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:15:39 +0100, Siegfried Gonzi
<siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at> wrote:

>Projecting this experience to Python. I would assume (but without any
>detailed study) that Python in  combination with the numeric library
>will serve you very well. But it depends whether you can use a
>straightforward algorithm (like the FFT) or you must solve your own
>integral.


See my other post containing the code. There is no integral...

>> Are there any libraries or other resources that would help? I used the
>> Scientific Python library for the histogram but it was much slower
>> than my DIY approach.
>
>How much slower? A performance penalty of 100 would be of great concern;
>a factor of 5 should not mind you (but this is my personal view). Okay,
>if you have to wait in C or C++ 1 hour then even a factor of 5 is
>somewhat bothersome.

Even a factor of 5 is not really nice if you have to run it for
several hundred times...

Regards,

Martin



From mmoore at cablespeed.com  Wed Mar  6 12:34:57 2002
From: mmoore at cablespeed.com (Michele Moore)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:34:57 -0500
Subject: Is there any wxPython turtor?
References: <a604fb$a6tuc$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3C865341.8D190235@cablespeed.com>

Ricky wrote:

> I have downloaded wxPython 2.3. But, I found that the document come with it
> is not well enough. Is there any recommended good tutor of wxPython itself??
>
> BTW: I don't know why I can't connect to www.wxpython.org, is it still
> alive?

You might consider visiting:
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/How_20to_20Learn_20wxPython

Most of the actual API documentation is written for the C++ implementation
underneath, wxWindows, which is very thorough.  Here's a good reference
for a number of tutorials:   http://www.wxwindows.org/docs2.htm

BTW, I was able to go to http://www.wxpython.org just fine just now.

Michele



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 05:55:53 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:55:53 +0000
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com> <uhen0vatp.fsf@online.no> <q0t6au4goc1q5ql38vq57qd3ec2ajhqpgl@4ax.com> <u1ye4p12b.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <a1i8au4h2jmumla0g5bigvce1odlarr7np@4ax.com>

Syver Enstad <syver-en+usenet at online.no> wrote:

>Oh but it is, I have it on my machine. I just nicked some registry
>stuff from the exe file key in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT and py and pyw file
>behave beautifully when dropped files on.
>
>Here's what you need:
>
><python drop.reg>
>REGEDIT4
>
>[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shellex\DropHandler]
>@="{86C86720-42A0-1069-A2E8-08002B30309D}"
>
>[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.NoConFile\shellex\DropHandler]
>@="{86C86720-42A0-1069-A2E8-08002B30309D}"
></python drop.reg>

Neat. Thanks for that.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Sat Mar 30 01:32:56 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:32:56 GMT
Subject: decision tables Re: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (new  proposal):
References: <mailman.1017466547.3800.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ca55b4a.6988843@news.t-online.de>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:33:13 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
wrote:

>However, I'd liked to see a good paradigm for expressing
>decision tables like this one:
>
>F1 F2 F3 R
>0  0  *  do1
>0  1  0  do2
>0  1  1  do3
>1  *  *  do4

just an idea: subclass dict, implement pattern matching in the lookup
func? 

derived_dict( 
  (0,0,2) : do1,
  (0,1,0) : do2,
  (0,1,1) : do3,
  (1,2,2) : do4
)

with lookup

d[F1,F2,F3](args)



From nsbase at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 06:19:20 2002
From: nsbase at yahoo.co.uk (Noel Smith)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 03:19:20 -0800
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
Message-ID: <10095d00.0203150319.12f9cbf9@posting.google.com>

I've been recently using the Python shell on Linux as a handy way to
get character numbers from various extended LATIN-1 characters.

i.e. For UK pound and Yen currency signs:

>>> print ord('?')
163
>>> print ord('?')
165

Which are the correct values.

However I've recently installed python 7.2 on Windows NT4 and found it
gives the following results when using the command line shell:

>>> print ord('?')
156
>>> print ord('?')
157

Which is clearly wrong although strangely enough when I type the same
thing into IDLE on Windows NT, it produces the correct results.

Is this a bug or is there some windows character mapping going on
behind the scenes which I've missed out? Is there any configuration
that I've missed out?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Noel Smith


From ngps at madcap.netmemetic.com  Fri Mar  8 09:58:54 2002
From: ngps at madcap.netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 14:58:54 GMT
Subject: [Announce] M2Crypto 0.07 snapshot #3
Message-ID: <a6ajje$1ij$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>

Hi,

M2Crypto 0.07 snapshot #3 is now available. This snapshot sports a
Distutils setup.py that uses bundled SWIG-generated files; this should make
it easier to build and install M2Crypto.

Also available are Win32 binaries for Pythons 2.2, 2.1 and 1.5.2.

On the minus side, ZServerSSL does not work with Zope 2.5.0. I expect to
release 0.07 once I fix this.

As usual, M2Crypto is here:

    http://www.post1.com/home/ngps/m2/

Your feedback is welcome.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> * http://www.netmemetic.com



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 08:19:35 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:19:35 +0100
Subject: shared memory block
References: <3C988A9F.51137D54@mathworks.fr>
Message-ID: <3C988C67.2010008@bigfoot.de>

Boris Huart wrote:
> I am trying to allocate a shared memory block from a python script so
> that a Java applet can access the data shared.

This won't work. If it works at all, you'll have to use the C interface 
of both Python and Java. Using JNI in a Java applet, if at all possible, 
needs serious hacking of your Java and Browser environment.

There sure is a very simple solution to your problem. Except we don't 
know what the problem actually is. So please try to describe it.

Do you need to somehow communicate between a Python script and a Java 
applet? Then one of XML-RPC, SOAP, CORBA will do the trick. If you have 
complex data structures, AFAIK CORBA is best.

Gerhard



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Fri Mar 29 22:44:27 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 03:44:27 GMT
Subject: execfile() - change python version?
References: <VK9p8.1492$hi7.2657@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3CA53165.E3A765A4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vwap8.1551$hi7.3425@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

running the following set of commands in a script:
    import xml.dom.minidom
    dom = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(somexmlstr)

using the above in python2.1 from my account: WORKS
using the above in python2.1 from the web: WORKS
using the above in python2.2 from my account : WORKS
using the above in python2.2 from the web : FAILS!

so im forced to used 2.1 because of xml libraries
#!/local/usr/bin/python
as aposed to
#!/local/usr/bin/python2.2

it probably does not work because of some environmental
variable not being set, which when run from the web
fails to find the SAX parser..

fast translation of tracedump:
i execute xml.dom.minidom.parseString(xmlstr) and it fails to create the SAX
reader in the xml.sax.__init__. i believe it is perhaps python can not find
the required libraries in 2.2 but able to find them in 2.1.

here is the raw tracedump:
[('/usr/cs3/thoang/lib/html/q.cgi', 43, '?', 'execfile("handle-projects.py",
namespace)'), ('handle-projects.py', 14, '?', "projects =
mods['xmlagent'].getProjects()"), ('/usr/cs3/thoang/lib/html/xmlagent.py',
16, 'getProjects', 'dom = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(datamine)'),
('/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py', 965, 'parseString', 'return
_doparse(pulldom.parseString, args, kwargs)'),
('/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py', 951, '_doparse', 'events =
apply(func, args, kwargs)'), ('/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/pulldom.py',
340, 'parseString', 'parser = xml.sax.make_parser()'),
('/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/__init__.py', 93, 'make_parser', 'raise
SAXReaderNotAvailable("No parsers found", None)')]

what are your thoughts?

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3CA53165.E3A765A4 at engcorp.com...
> Trung Hoang wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > i was wondering if there is a way to change which version of python
> > processing the file when execfile().
>
> No.  execfile() is basically "execute this file using the currently
> running version of Python".
>
> > i wish to use python2.2 on the main file, and python2.1 on the file
passed
> > into the argument of execfile().
>
> Don't use execfile().  Use os.system() and run the version you want
instead.
>
> > reason being: there is some sort of mis configuration error on the
server i
> > am using python on.
>
> Sounds like there must be an easier way to solve the problem.  Can
> you give more detail on this "misconfiguration error"?




From Moo at houston.rr.com  Wed Mar  6 16:07:18 2002
From: Moo at houston.rr.com (Avi Homes)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:07:18 GMT
Subject: Dictionaries in Lists
Message-ID: <ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

I was attempting to make a list of dictionaries, which to me feels like the
C equivlant of an array of structs, kind of. anyway, after making a
dictionary and putting some values into it, and trying to append it to a
list, python is not liking this. Am I approaching the idea the wrong way? i
would like to keep the data organized as dictionaries.. the code looked
something like

Info{'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah}
Listing=[]
Listing.append(Info)






From bass at slinkp.com  Fri Mar  8 18:06:49 2002
From: bass at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 15:06:49 -0800
Subject: [OT] range() for unix shell
References: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015542375.17702.python-list@python.org> <2adab837.0203071734.1a3bee80@posting.google.com> <5e8bd451.0203080308.6665d155@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2adab837.0203081506.fd13680@posting.google.com>

kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks) wrote in message news:<5e8bd451.0203080308.6665d155 at posting.google.com>...
> Paul (see you on Csound from time to time!)
> 
> see the useless python page:
> 
> 
> http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/uselesspython2.html

That's cute. The formatting string is a really good idea.

I haven't been on the csound list in a long time now...
anything interesting going on there?

--PW


From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Fri Mar  8 05:59:57 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:59:57 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <mailman.1015523956.24319.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8899AD.78B134DE@spam.nada.kth.se>

Christian Tanzer wrote:

> Agreed. I relied on that.
> 
> > In this example s1 will be constructed first followed by s2.
> 
> And here I am wary. Does the standard prescribe this? For normal
> expressions at least, you can't rely on evaluation order. But then, in
> comma separated expressions you can. So maybe this is safe after all.

I believe it is, but I'm not certain. As you say, evaluation order for
comma separated expressions are defined. I'd have to ask someone with a
copy of the standard handy for this. Anyway, what I AM certain of is
that the destruction order is opposite of the construction order.


Bj?rn


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 18:00:12 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:00:12 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <mailman.1017438528.28926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%l6p8.157527$2q2.12783856@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017438528.28926.python-list at python.org...

[snip]
>
> # Word dictionary
> dict = "c:\data\dict.txt"

Try either r"c:\data\dict.txt" or "c:\\data\\dict.txt".

or "c:/data/dict.txt" , which is both clear and safe.  However, I
believe \d == d.  In any case, he had 4000+ words of the proper length
so this does not seem to be the problem.

Terry J. Reedy





From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 05:49:21 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:49:21 +0100
Subject: dictonary
In-Reply-To: <3C8F27DC.F69B1F54@stud.cs.uit.no>
References: <3C8F27DC.F69B1F54@stud.cs.uit.no>
Message-ID: <20020313104920.GA1656@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 11:20, Daniel Nyg?rd ?crivit:
> How do I insert a dictionary into a database (_mysql)?

Don't use _mysql. Use MySQLdb instead.

> db = _mysql.connect()
> string = {
> 	hello:'wow', 
> 	something:'nothing',
> 	nothing : 'something',
> 	number : 5,
> 	name : 'daniel'}
> 
> then I have a database with the same attributes as the keys in the dict.
> above.
> How do I insert the whole dict into the database.
 
This is one way to do it, I bet there's a better one:

dict = {'name': 'Andy', 'age': 39}

columns = ",".join(dict.keys())
# I hope using only %s works for MySQLdb. It does work like this for pyPgSQL.
placeholders = ",".join(['%(' + k + ')s' for k in dict.keys()])
sql = "insert into table(" + columns + ") values (" + placeholders + ")"

# This should do the proper parameter quoting:
cursor.execute(sql, dict)

The author of MySQLdb has a module called SQLDict on his homepage (just
google for it). Maybe you'll find it useful.

Cheers,

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 16.0 ?C      Wind: 1.7 m/s



From wurmy at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 24 12:30:02 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:30:02 GMT
Subject: MS Sql Server
References: <788n8.60257$bj1.19179906@news02.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E0D99.F8336C50@earthlink.net>

Chase wrote:
> 
> Hi...
> 
> Wondering what the most accepted practice is, for communicating to Sql
> Server Databases. Is it the ODBC module ? mxODBC ? Is there an ADO module ?
> 
> Any hints/help appreciated.

Besides the more obvious solutions, SQL Server 2000 also has
a thing called SQLXML, allowing you to talk to a database
through HTTP, using specialized URLs or XML.

Pro: No drivers necessary. You can write a nice, portable,
pure-Python interface. Access database from anywhere.

Con: It's as fast as your HTTP connection (although that
may not be much of a problem if you're running your
database local or on a LAN). And, AFAIK, there's no generic
SQLXML module (or package) for Python yet. (Although I
might be allowed to publish some of code I've written
for my current project...)

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 10:08:41 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:08:41 -0500
Subject: (OT) Way to search HTML help?
Message-ID: <E45h8.3313$tg2.207141@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

This is a bit off-topic, but does anyone know how to search the HTML help
that comes with PythonWin?  It has a link to the HTML help Python files, but
I can't figure out how to do a text search on the HTML help like you can
with WinHelp help files (something that would crawl the interdocument HTML
links).  This all came about when I was trying to find info on Python's
getFrame() method which I couldn't find in the "Python Essential Reference"
book.

Thanks.





From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 13 13:16:11 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:16:11 GMT
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6nnsg$chc$1@panix1.panix.com> <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1016040504.2814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u4rjks537.fsf@python.net>

Trent Mick <trentm at ActiveState.com> writes:

> [Michael Hudson wrote]
> > Time to look at roundup again?  The tracker on sf is starting to piss
> > me off (even more).
> 
> If you *are* going to get motivated to look at a different tracker *please*
> consider bugzilla. You will find it a much more appropriate than roundup.

Perhaps.  I'm a bit scared of bugzilla (on the admin side).

OTOH, the support request I submitted to sf has been bumped to
priority 9, so perhaps this is all premature.

> p.s. I am gonna regret feeding this.

Huh?

Cheers,
M.


-- 
  If Unicode is a horde of zombies with flaming dung sticks, 
  the hideous intricacies of JIS, Chinese Big-5, Chinese 
  Traditional, KOI-8, et cetera are at least an army of ogres 
  with salt and flensing knives.        -- Eric S. Raymond, python-dev


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 18:23:14 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:23:14 +0000
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
 <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <just-A83F08.18481924032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <qxS77UAi$ln8EwGL@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <just-A83F08.18481924032002 at news1.xs4all.nl>, Just van Rossum
<just at xs4all.nl> writes
.....
>(Also note that open is now an alias for the new "file" builtin, which 
>considering how things now work is the more logical name. The builtin 
>functions int, float and str (among others) are olso type objects these 
>days.)
>
>Just
yes, but presumably abs is not the same as type(abs(1.2)) so this only
applies to certain factories rather than all functions.


So the question now is, how do I tell if __import__ is the built in one
even if the import system is not fully initialized.
-- 
Robin Becker


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Mar 27 17:16:04 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 17:16:04 -0500
Subject: thread-safe swap
References: <833cyl3gfe.fsf_-_@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <ur8m5zmfv.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Kragen Sitaker <kragen at pobox.com> writes:

> Someone recommended using the idiom
> 
>     spam, eggs = eggs, spam
> 
> to get a thread-safe swap.  Does this really work?
(...)
> So if this thread loses control anywhere between the first LOAD_FAST
> and the last STORE_FAST, a value could get stored by another thread
> into "b" which would then be lost.  There isn't anything keeping this
> from happening, is there?

Nope.  In general not even a simple assignment is necessarily thread
safe since performing the assignment may invoke special methods on an
object which themselves may require a number of operations.  Hopefully
the object will have internally locked its "state" values, but that's
not always the case.

But it's really dictated by what "thread safety" means in a particular
application, because to my mind there are many levels of granularity
of such safety so it's hard to talk about "thread safety".  About the
only thing the Python interpreter is going to give you for free is
that a built-in data type should be safe from internal corruption even
with native threading.  In other words if two threads have "a=0xff"
and "a=0xff00", a will end up with one or the other, but not
accidentally "0xffff" as might be possible in some other languages if
a isn't protected.

With that said, Python also tends to execute in such a fashion that
you can get away with an awful lot without formal locking, if you're
willing to live on the edge a bit and have implied dependencies on the
actual objects in use.  There was a decent discussion along those
lines here in c.l.p a while back - search groups.google.com for the
"Critical sections and mutexes" thread among others.

Personally, I explicitly lock shared state (or use constructs designed
for exchanging shared information properly amongst threads, such as
Queue.Queue) in any multi-threaded application.  To my mind it's the
best protection against maintenance and evolution down the road.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar  7 02:59:38 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 08:59:38 +0100
Subject: hash(unicode(string)) == hash(string) sometimes (was Re: Why KeyError ???)
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com> <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <7xvgcabcti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <c76ff6fc.0203061510.53d5a91b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3g03cajv9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) writes:

> If the "fix" for this would involve making hash(string) always do
> hash(unicode(string)) then I sure hope that (borrowing timbot
> phraseology) somebody optimises the snot out of it.

The real solution, IMO, is to never change the system default
encoding. Then auto-conversion will only apply to ASCII strings,
and dictionary lookup will either succeed properly, or fail with
a UnicodeError - which will indicate a bug in the program, as it
would need to explicitly apply a non-default encoding.

Regards,
Martin



From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar  4 23:52:45 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:52:45 -0600
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
In-Reply-To: <15491.48228.515787.419778@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEAJDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Given this simple file access permission code: [...]
> how would I do this under Windows?

The following is not a joke.

Any Windows programmer would just "return 1".  It's not in
the Windows application development culture to care about
file permissions.  Besides, 98% of the time this is the
right answer on Windows.  Why write a bunch of messy Win32
API calls code going after the other 2%?

I think the typical thing is to just go ahead and try to
use the file.  If something goes wrong, pop up a message box
with a none-too-friendly error message.  ("Error - An error
has occurred." is about par for the course.)

Note that even on Unix, the code you quoted isn't perfect.
Users can belong to multiple groups these days.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From dswegen at software.plasmon.com  Thu Mar 21 03:53:07 2002
From: dswegen at software.plasmon.com (Dave Swegen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:53:07 +0000
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
In-Reply-To: <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net> <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020321085307.GB10214@software.plasmon>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 11:43:43PM -0500, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Rich Salz wrote:
> > 
> > > Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define?
> >  >... are globals the only way to go?
> > 
> > You can at least make them class attributes
> >         class constants:
> >                 pi = 3.14159
> >                 e = 2.71828
> > adding your own setattr can serve to make them read-only.
> 
> That wouldn't help when one needed to change the values...

I'm basically after a single file where such values can be stored, and
then used in various parts of the program without having to pass extra
configuation variables around.

Cheers
	Dave



From arthur.siegel at rsmi.com  Sat Mar 16 18:49:22 2002
From: arthur.siegel at rsmi.com (arthur.siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:49:22 -0500
Subject: return type question - operator oveloading
Message-ID: <OF14A65576.70FEBA90-ON85256B7E.00829439@RSMi.com>

Given:

class Complex(complex):
    def __mul__(self,other):
       other=Complex(other)
       t = complex.__mul__(self,other)
       return Complex(t.real,t.imag)
    __rmul__ = __mul__

    def __add__(self,other):
       other=Complex(other)
       return Complex(self.real.__add__(other.real),self.imag.__add__(other.imag))
    __radd__ = __add__

Then:

print type(Complex(5,4) * 7)
>><class '__main__.Complex'>
print type(7 * Complex(5,4))
>><class '__main__.Complex'>
print type(Complex(5,4) + 7)
>><class '__main__.Complex'>

But:

print type(7 + Complex(5,4))
>><type 'complex'>

Multiple choice:
  That the result at But is a surprise to me because I am missing:
      1)Something obvious about __radd__ or general classic syntax
      2)Something related to new style classes
      3)Other

Art




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 29 19:22:45 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:22:45 -0500
Subject: string copying
In-Reply-To: <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEAHOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Peter Hansen]
> The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
> common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
> quickly by something like:
>
> a = [0] * 1000000
> for i in xrange(1000000):
>     a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'

Hmm.  A much easier way to consume vast quantities of memory quickly is to
skip the for-loop and just increase the multiplier on the first line.  If
you're on a 32-bit machine, and want to consume N bytes, use N/4 as the
multiplier.




From rloisel at helicon.net  Wed Mar 20 08:45:28 2002
From: rloisel at helicon.net (Rodney Loisel)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:45:28 -0500
Subject: error:"_imaging C module is not installed"
Message-ID: <3C989278.9189857C@helicon.net>

Just upgraded from PY 1.5.2 to 2.2.1c1
and TCL 8.3
Also installed PIL (Python Imaging Library)
All paths seem okay in autoexec.bat

I have an image viewing program the worked fine in 5.2
now getting message "ImportError: The _imaging C module is not
installed"
Have 2 files (_imaging.pyd and _imagingtk.pyd) which I assume are the
C imagaging modules and have put copies of them in all the directories
that
they might be accessed in: DLL PIL TCL\BIN but still get everything:
canvas
buttons etc but no image. Below is the error readout in the output
window.
Any and all help appreciated.
----------------------------------------------------------
There are  923 images
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "H:\ClickView2.py", line 46, in ?
    scrapbook = Scrapbook(root)
  File "H:\ClickView2.py", line 27, in __init__
    self.getImg(0)
  File "H:\ClickView2.py", line 34, in getImg
    self.img = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.masterImg)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\PIL\ImageTk.py", line 86, in __init__
    self.paste(image)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\PIL\ImageTk.py", line 108, in paste
    im.load()
  File "C:\PYTHON22\PIL\ImageFile.py", line 125, in load
    self.load_prepare()
  File "C:\PYTHON22\PIL\ImageFile.py", line 175, in load_prepare
    self.im = Image.core.new(self.mode, self.size)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\PIL\Image.py", line 43, in __getattr__
    raise ImportError, "The _imaging C module is not installed"
ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed
------------------------------------------------------------
rloisel at helicon.net (Rod Loisel Enfield NH USA)



From kalath at lycos.com  Sun Mar  3 11:41:01 2002
From: kalath at lycos.com (Mark Brady)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 08:41:01 -0800
Subject: PEP 262 (database of installed Python packages)
References: <3wgg8.685$Qo2.70120@news02.tsnz.net>
Message-ID: <e840346c.0203030841.2d174460@posting.google.com>

"Andy Elvey" <andy.elvey at paradise.net.nz> wrote in message news:<3wgg8.685$Qo2.70120 at news02.tsnz.net>...
  it would be *truly* wonderful if there were a (standard?) database
> of  *all*  installed packages (Python, Ruby, and whatever else) - maybe in a
> directory called "search".   In Linux, this could be "/search" ,  in Win32
> "C:\search".

I uderstand where you are coming from but I personally don't think
that this is a good idea. I love the idea of a Python module database
and infact I always try to use distutils to build a wininst or rpm so
that I can easily see and manage the packages I have installed. I like
Ruby, Perl, etc. but they all have their own ways of doing things. I
don't think a Python PEP is the place to try and solve their package
management problems as well as our own. However if we do use a fairly
generic solution maybe it would become a de-facto standard. Anyway
have a nice day everyone,

Mark Brady.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 20 00:03:28 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 05:03:28 GMT
Subject: Passing command line arguments when debugging with IDLE
References: <a78peu$ldd$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <a78vhk$isq$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a79570$1ds$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Mar 2002 03:26:44 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:43:33 -0500, "Nigel-Fi" <nospam at nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>A newbe question from someone more familiar with devstudio type
>>environments...
>>
>>I have a python program which takes command line arguments and i'd like to
>>debug it with IDLE but I cant see how to specify them when I open the py
>>file or run it within IDLE.
>>
>I'd just make a temporary assignment to sys.argv right after the import sys, e.g.,
>
>    import sys
>    sys.argv = ['arg0', '-opt', 2, 'etc.']
>
Oops, that 2 should also have quotes. Every arg from sys.argv will normally be a string.

>and then pretend it was set normally. Comment out when ready to run from command line
>or other starting method that passes cmd line parameters.
>
>HTH
Sorry 'bout that.
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter
>
>



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  1 11:51:47 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 16:51:47 GMT
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <a5obj3$18di$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu>:
| I tried to use the shutil module... and to tell you the truth, it stinks. 
| Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that has the 
| equivalent of the unix shell utilities?

Go ahead.  Then keep an eye out on comp.lang.python, and after some
years pass finally someone will mention it:  "it stinks", they'll
say, with no particular explanation.

| I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...
|
| Here is my wish list. Each of these should implement a significant portion 
| of what the GNU utils do. They should be robust, and give reasonable 
| results, and reasonable exceptions.
|
| touch, chmod, chown, chgrp, touch
| df, du
| cp, dd, install, mv, rm, shred

Some of them are essentially POSIX 1003.1 functions, hence supported in
the posix module (which we usually call "os" so it will appear that these
functions are supported on all platforms, whether they really are or not.)

chmod == chmod()
chown == chown()
chgrp == chown()
rm == unlink()
mv == rename()
dd ~= read(), write(), lseek()
df == fstatvfs()

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 19:19:18 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:19:18 -0500
Subject: Windows GUI - which way?
References: <a5k8t9$hrp$1@news.efn.org> <3C7EC855.5844B19F@engcorp.com> <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203021308260.14311-100000@garcia.efn.org> <3C83D003.411FEE3F@ccvcorp.com> <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203041208050.11237-100000@garcia.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C840F06.B3D3CE97@engcorp.com>

Spencer Ernest Doidge wrote:
> 
> It happens that I want to do all this with scripts that are all under my
> control, so there is a lot of good news here in your answer.
> One further question: Should the two processes communicate with each other
> via mmap?

Might depend.  What's the nature of the communication involved?  Lots
of data, a few simple messages, complex objects, or something else?
That is, are there constraints?

Personally, I would not use mmap.  Maybe that's because I have never
looked at it (or, apparently, needed it).  Is Queue adequate for your
needs?  (I suspect mmap is not thread-safe but I could be wrong.)


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar  7 18:59:55 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 15:59:55 -0800
Subject: Bug in the standard module random ?
References: <3C8791B1.6BBC1981@Spam.Please>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203071559.38e857d2@posting.google.com>

Weet Vanniks <No at Spam.Please> wrote in message news:<3C8791B1.6BBC1981 at Spam.Please>...
> Hi,
> 
> The  gammavariate function of the standard module is documented as
> taking two parameters, the first one alpha is required to be > -1 and
> the second beta is required to be >0.
> However, examining the implementation, it seems that the requirement for
> alpha is to be >0.
> 
> In spite of this, I still have a problem since I called the gammavariate
> function with a parameter alpha equal to 0.2 and it fails logically on
> the following line:
> ainv=_sqrt(2.0 * alpha - 1.0)
> 
> Apparently, the implementation requires alpha to be > 0.5.
> Am i missing something or is it a bug?

Yes *and* yes :-)

Reading on further in random.py, one finds that stdgamma() uses the
ainv, bbb, and ccc etc arguments only if alpha > 1.0

Further, stdgamma() is called (inside random.py) only from the line
you quoted.

The module exposes both gammavariate() and stdgamma() --- stdgamma()
with those three extra args seems useless to me.

The documentation says there is a gamma() but doesn't mention
gammavariate() and stdgamma(). The exposed function shold be called
"gammavariate" (a) for consistency (b) to avoid the perceived need to
explain that this "gamma" is not the gamma function!!! As you have
noticed, the usable range of alpha is incorrectly documented also.

You should be able to fix this yourself; if not, let me know your real
e-mail address and I'll send you a fixed version (and submit it to
SF).

> 
> Best regards
> 
> Weet
> 
> 
> ## -------------------- gamma distribution --------------------
> 
>     def gammavariate(self, alpha, beta):
>         # beta times standard gamma
>         ainv = _sqrt(2.0 * alpha - 1.0)
>         return beta * self.stdgamma(alpha, ainv, alpha - LOG4, alpha +
> ainv)


From dgrisby at uk.research.att.com  Thu Mar 21 05:13:28 2002
From: dgrisby at uk.research.att.com (Duncan Grisby)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 10:13:28 GMT
Subject: Python/CORBA
References: <3C98DD6E.EB227047@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <a7cbo8$f8q$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>

In article <3C98DD6E.EB227047 at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>,
 Viatcheslav Kulikov RWTH Aachen  <vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

>Can anyone probably answer a question why Python 2.1 sends me an
>exception message "INITIALIZE: Minor: 0, Completed: COMPLETED_NO." while
>I am trying to initialize omniORB CORBA interface with:
>
>from omniORB import CORBA
>orb = CORBA.ORB_init(sys.argv, CORBA.ORB_ID)

The networking set-up on your machine is probably broken. Do other
network server applications work?

Try running the program with command line arguments -ORBtraceLevel
10. That will indicate where (in the omniORB C++ code) the exception
is coming from, and help track it down.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby  \  Research Engineer  --
  -- AT&T Laboratories Cambridge          --
   -- http://www.uk.research.att.com/~dpg1 --


From Jonathan_Epstein at nih.gov  Thu Mar  7 11:42:49 2002
From: Jonathan_Epstein at nih.gov (Jonathan Epstein)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:42:49 -0500
Subject: Python/C - Memory-Management
References: <d013da35.0203070154.64411e59@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4xMh8.1$f5.1383@mencken.net.nih.gov>

I have a similar problem with SWIG, which I haven't gone back to in a while.

When I do get back to it, though, I plan to either purchase a license for
Rational Purify, or just see how much I can accomplish using a free trial
license.

I believe that Purify runs on Windoze, Solaris and Irix.  If one or more of
these platforms are available to you, I suggest giving it a try.

It's pretty expensive, but about half the price on Windoze ($750?) as I
recall.

http://www.purify.com/products/purify_unix/index.jsp
http://www.purify.com/products/purify_nt/index.jsp

Oh, and please let me know how effective this is if you try it ;-)

-Jonathan

"Heiko Wolf" <heiko.wolf at dlr.de> wrote in message
news:d013da35.0203070154.64411e59 at posting.google.com...
> Hi there,
>
> I've got some C-functions that shall be adressed from Python. Thats no
> problem, thanks to SWIG.
>
> But now there is a problem about the memory management: One of the
> C-functions allocates memory for all the other functions. In C it
> works that way:
>
> static char *memory = NULL;
>
> int init_mem (void)
> {
>
> memory = (char *)malloc(sizeof(char) * 1000);
> }
>
> int free_mem (void)
> {
>
> free(memory);
> }
>
> If another function calls init_mem, it can use memory until free_mem
> is called... I want to do the same now in Python, but it seems as if
> the static memory isnt kept somewhere? When I try accessing it, I get
> a Segmentation Fault... Any suggestions?
>
> Cheers, Heiko




From edream at tds.net  Sat Mar  9 12:36:18 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:36:18 GMT
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net> <tsri8.24015$n4.4647816@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3C8A4810.85A56A1@tds.net>

> > Dynamic tracing is trivial to implement.  More importantly, it is
> > simpler to use and more flexible than any static scheme such as the one
> > described in 282.
> 
> except that in real systems, the end user couldn't care less
> about what/when/how your Python functions are called.
> 
> they do care about syslog-compatibility, severity levels, and
> trivial things like getting the same logging messages also after
> you've refactored your program...

I was talking about functionality, not packaging.  Naturally, a logger
would be a class.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Sat Mar  9 14:33:21 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:33:21 GMT
Subject: List of lists: caveat?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091505530.12114-100000@laureloak.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <3c8a6335.54994765@news.t-online.de>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:09:30 -0500, George Thomas
<george at cc.gatech.edu> wrote:

>What are the exact semantics of the line marked (I) above? If there is a 

I fell for that one, too. There is an entry in the FAQ for it:

http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.50




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 08:13:24 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:13:24 -0500
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C91F374.831A3061@engcorp.com>

Billy Ng wrote:
> 
> I am trying to write a python program to verify the email address.  Here is
> what I am going to do:
> 
[...]
 
> In fact, I could send VRFY:<recipient address> to shorten the code, but I
> notice so many SMTP server does not allow VRF command.  I also notice the
> many SMTP server denies the RCPT TO command too.  If you have down something
> like this, please tell how did you do it.

Why are you trying to verify email addresses?  If you can let
us know the overall purpose of the program we can probably 
provide you with better advice about how to accomplish the goal.

-Peter


From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Wed Mar 27 18:39:30 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:39:30 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions -- PythonWin??
References: <mailman.1017269623.17208.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7tl7i$74o$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Brian Quinlan wrote:
> >>> e=u'\u20ac'
> >>> e
> u'\u20ac'
> >>> print e
> ?    (<--- this is an Euro symbol on my screen)

>Is this what actually happens? Did you change your default encoding to
>be something other than ASCII, possible by modifying site.py?

I changed it back to the default, "ascii".
The example is from within PythonWin (the GUI!).
There is something with that: when I do "print e" in PythonWin it prints the
Euro, ?.
When I do "print e" in the console python, it throws an exception
ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
Print redirection to a file using print >> also throws the encoding exception in
PythonWin.
Only directly printing to the GUI console appears to work.
Hmmm... What does PythonWin do!??


> The print does not do any conversion; it just sends bytes to the output
stream.
Hmm... how does it send the unicode string to the output stream?
Not as raw unicode (unconverted), because print redirection throws an encoding
exception.

Irmen





From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Mar 29 09:49:40 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:49:40 +0100
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com> <slrnaa7gc7.26a.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3CA3D86A.7080806@yahoo.com> <67abb823.0203290500.3a3a7da1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA47F04.1080602@stroeder.com>

Sloth wrote:
> 
> The reason that I'd like to find a native Python script is as follows:
> I started to build a proof of concept Web app for a company that
> queried a customer database and generated search results.  The company
> loved it and wanted to have me create a few "pilots" for salespeople. 
> If I can simply have them install Python and install an additional
> module or two, it would be easier than asking non-technical sales
> folks to also install Apache.

This is exactly the point. Install Python, unzip the web app package and 
double-click on a start script. That's easy.

I usually write my web apps that they run under both environments. I 
strongly recommend to use file objects for output instead of print 
statements. This makes it easy to write a bunch of wrappers around the web 
app for various web server APIs (FastCGI, mod_python, BaseHTTPServer, etc.) 
by just passing file objects for output, error log and a dictionary 
containing the CGI-BIN environment.

Ciao, Michael.



From sam_collett at lycos.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 12:12:40 2002
From: sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 09:12:40 -0800
Subject: Javascript to Python
Message-ID: <2030665d.0203010912.1bb9c0ae@posting.google.com>

Does anyone know of any good sites on Javascript > Python examples?
I have a function in javascript that returns the file extension:

function FileExtension(sFilePath)
{
    return Right(sFilePath,sFilePath.length-sFilePath.lastIndexOf("."))
}

so FileExtension("/path/to/file.doc") would return .doc
I would also want to return the filename (file) and the path
(/path/to/). How would I go about that?

What equivalents to the functions Right and Left (right side of
string, left side of string)

Also is there an easier way to do number incrementing (just me being
lazy):
while r<5
 print r
 r=r+1

I have tried r++ to add 1 each time, and r-- to take away one, but
this does not work, so is the only way r=r+1 or r=r-1 ?

TIA


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 17 12:43:57 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:43:57 +0100
Subject: sunstring
References: <0r4l8.22204$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <j4u1rf5btu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Billy Ng" <evebill8 at hotmail.com> writes:

> Would anybody tell me how to do substring in python?

>>> s="Hallo"
>>> s[2:4]
'll'

HTH,
Martin


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 19:59:25 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:59:25 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <yu998z8zywbi.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <3C8FBDD6.9906E423@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6utv8u8o6kodq4537a6d86qtfp97p6sd47@4ax.com>

>> Rather, it seems to me that Microsoft is saying that they will not
>> allow their products to be used in any way that might potentially
>> compel Microsoft to disclose any of their own source code.

No one, other than Microsoft, can use Microsoft's products in
such a way as to compel Microsoft to disclose their source code.
They don't need a license for that, and there is no legal
ambiguity _what so ever_.

C//



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 14:23:13 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:23:13 -0800
Subject: Extension Modules in C
References: <mailman.1017332383.7543.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA36DA1.7A4DA872@ccvcorp.com>


Michael Saunders wrote:

> I am trying to wrap an existing C API as an extension module for Python. Some of
> the functions have parameters that are both input and output.

> Can this function be wrapped to have a similar API from python. For instance in
> Pytyon:
>
>     isOk = SomeModule.GetSomeInfo(None, count, size)
>     if isOk:
>          print count, size

The "Pythonic" way of doing this would be:

isOk, count, size = SomeModule.GetSomeInfo(None, count, size)

Actually, it'd be even more Pythonic to drop the isOk return, and raise an exception
if it's *not* okay.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Mar  7 19:39:06 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:39:06 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?)
References: <mailman.1015540815.12210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-5FA85E.16390607032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015540815.12210.python-list at python.org>,
 Gustavo Cordova <gcordova at hebmex.com> wrote:

> So, I propose an answer to this, and here it is.
> 
> Just do a "from ints import Ints" at the beginning of the program.

Your ints module is nice, and I think if it were in the standard library 
I'd be a lot less motivated to push PEP 284.  But, the objection to it 
will be that it only creates closed intervals, where other Python 
objects create half-open ones and it would be nice to have a syntax that 
would allow any combination of open and closed interval endpoints.


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 14:53:53 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:53:53 +0000
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaac5uf.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:39:10 -0500, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>Abstract
>
>    This PEP proposes the introduction of a new built-in type, bool,
>    with two constants, False and True.

My first reaction to this was "shit, this will break every 
non-trivial program". However the details of the proposal are such 
that it won't, it goes out of its way to implement backwards 
compatibility.

>Rationale
>
>    Most languages eventually grow a Boolean type; even C99 (the new
>    and improved C standard, not yet widely adopted) has one.

That's hardly a valid reason.

Should we scrap syntactic indentation and use BEGIN and END keywords 
instead? Most languages do some varient of that.

>    Here are some arguments derived from teaching Python.  When
>    showing people comparison operators etc. in the interactive shell,
>    I think this is a bit ugly:
>
>        >>> a = 13
>        >>> b = 12
>        >>> a > b
>        1
>        >>>
>
>    If this was:
>
>        >>> a > b
>        True
>        >>>

That *is* a valid reason. However, it must be decided whether 
Python's primary goal is to be easy to learn or easy to use.

This proposal makes it easier to learn in some respects, but adds 
difficulty as well, as the user must learn a new data type, albeit 
a rather simple one.

>    it would require one millisecond less thinking each time a 0 or 1
>    was printed.

This would be true the first 2 or 3 times someone sees a 0 or 1 in 
response to a boolean query.

>    There's also the issue (which I've seen puzzling even experienced
>    Pythonistas who had been away from the language for a while) that if
>    you see:
>
>        >>> cmp(a, b)
>        1
>        >>> cmp(a, a)
>        0
>        >>> 
>
>    you might be tempted to believe that cmp() also returned a truth
>    value.  If ints are not (normally) used for Booleans results, this
>    would stand out much more clearly as something completely
>    different.

That's true, but it's not a biggy.

>    Other languages (C99, C++, Java) name the constants "false" and
>    "true", in all lowercase.  In Python, I prefer to stick with the
>    example set by the existing built-in constants, which all use
>    CapitalizedWords: None, Ellipsis, NotImplemented (as well as all
>    built-in exceptions).  Python's built-in module uses all lowercase
>    for functions and types only.  But I'm willing to consider the
>    lowercase alternatives if enough people think it looks better.

I prefer True, False.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 23:02:20 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com>

Jim Dennis wrote:
> 
>  The core loop is something like:
> 
>         freq = {}
>         for line in file:
>                 for word in line.split():
>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
>                         else:                           freq[word] = 1
> 
>  (assuming Python2.2 for file interation and dictionary membership
>  support using "in."  I *really* like those 2.2 features!  They make
>  my psuedo-code so executable!)

Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1

would probably be faster, and it's a little simpler I think,
although I could see an argument that it's less readable.
Also doesn't depend on 2.2.

-Peter


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sun Mar 10 21:38:06 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:38:06 GMT
Subject: Translating Python to C (was Re: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python)
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com> <mailman.1015802057.4913.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef6o8ugudku03pq8m2tcb4mksep3dgu01v@4ax.com>

>> Just recently I prototyped a relatively complex algorithm in Python
>> before converting it to C.

I'm curious about your experiences. I did something myself recently,
creating a fairly sophisticated prototype in Python and then implemented
it in C++. Given that I had all the algorithms worked out and thoroughly
debugged, it was astounding to me how difficult it was to get properly
translated and then validated. It took literally 3 times as long or longer
to get the C++ version implemented and provably functional, this in spite
of the design time work being included in what it took to do the Python
implementation.

Programming in C++ genuinely depresses me.

And I'm an old veteran. I've been using it since the days of C Front, if
anyone around happens to know what that means. :-)

C//



From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Fri Mar 29 17:13:25 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:13:25 GMT
Subject: Slice objects. How to apply them to strings?
References: <upl4auo0ll9o99skacavmaf9cnnbh2qae4@4ax.com> <04g9au4kn4dtg92584l12n0ut001c7rb9m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9G5p8.587$AE1.529@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

> >
> >If 'item' is a slice object, shouldn't I just be able to say:
> >
> >    self.s[item]
> >?
> >

Yes, it would be sensible.  No you can't do it.  For some reason you can't
apply slice objects to built-in types.  Ultimately, this is because slice
objects are just a hack for operator overloading purposes.  I honestly don't
know how difficult it would be to modify the interpreter to allow types to
accept slice objects, but I imagine it's one of the things on the list for
"class/type unification"

Here are a few things if you think your code is too ugly.  First of all,
"step" is not valid in builtin objects, so you can ignore that case.  You
can also use a boolean short-circuit trick to take care of start:

def __getitem__(self, item):
    if type(item) == types.IntType:
        return self.s[item]
    elif:
        return self.s[item.start or 0, item.stop]
    else:
        raise TypeError, "sequence index must be interger or slice object"

That's about as short as you can safely get on the routine.





From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Wed Mar 13 00:15:43 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:15:43 -0700
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net> <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6mncn$koc$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Martin Kaufmann:
>    for s in s_vector[1:]:
>        sum = 0
>        for r in r_vector[1:]:
>            x = 2 * pi * r * s
>            sum = sum + (2 * (sin(x))/x)
>        intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum / atoms)
>        i_vector.append(intensity)
>        n = n + 1

Here's some performance improvements you can make

def ...
  # Precompute the 2*pi*r, which is a constant inside of the s loop
  precomputed_r1_vector = [2 * pi * r for r in r_vector[1:]]
  local_sin = math.sin  # local variables have fast lookup

  # using the zip gets rid of the extra n+1 and [n], at the expense
  # of making a new list.  I suspect it's faster, but I'm not sure
  for s, f_s_vector in zip(s_vector[1:], f_s_vector):
    sum = 0.0
    for scaled_r in precomputed_r1_vector:
      x = scaled_r * s
      sum = sum + 2 * (local_sin(x)/x)

    # Did some algebra here to merge the first and last terms,
    # which gets rid of the division.  Also replaced the function call
    # to 'pow' with the equivalent use of **2
    i_vector.append((f_s_vector**2) * (atoms + sum))

Some of these changes are only faster for sufficiently long arrays,
so you should test them out yourself.  The biggest trick is to
precompute as much as possible (Python doesn't optimize constant
expressions).  This includes precomputing lookups of functions
references, like the "local_sin".  Also, you could precompute the
lookup of i_vector.append, as in
  i_vector_append = i_vector.append
  ...
  for ...
    i_vector_append((f_s_vector**2) * (atoms + sum))

>Now the histogram code where the radii are binned in the histogram
>hist and only the bins with a value are used:

That code is almost identical with the previous code, so you can do
the same optimization tweaks.  You could also precompute which hist
elements have entry[1] == 0 so you don't do that check every time
in the loop.  (As it is now, the "if" check is probably more expensive
than the calculation, even if you know it's zero, unless there are a
lot of zeros.)

If your lists are really long (O(100,000) or more?) then you might find
that the append starts taking too long -- append is asymptotically O(n**n)
in Python -- so that precomputing

  i_vector = [None] * len(s_vector - 1)

then keeping an index 'n' to replace
  i_vector.append( ...)
with
  i_vector[n] = ...
is faster.  But this is unlikely.

Probably the best optimization you can do, if PyInline is an acceptable
approach, is to write put that sinc sum into C code.  It reduces to
taking two lists and returning a float.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Mar  4 09:23:34 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:23:34 GMT
Subject: Minor, minor style question
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net> <7le58u86cc6u7ibsdobuj7jk8gqobuluq5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3c8382f3.291759938@news.laplaza.org>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:09:03 -0800, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com>
wrote:

:claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:
:
:>Why would I prefer
:>  string = ""
:>  string = string + "abc "
:>  string = string + "def "
:>  string = string + "xyz"
:>over
:>  string = "abc " + \
:>	      "def " + \
:>	      "xyz"
:>?  I see a lot of the former in contexts I associate
:>with Visual Basic- or JavaScript-majority folkways.
:>Is there an attraction to the redundancy (and fragil-
:>ity!) I'm missing?  Are \-s *so* deprecated?
:
:Visual Basic programmers write things this way because VB didn't support
:line continuation characters until relatively recently.  Until then, you
:either had to write your concatenated strings as one VERY long line, or via
:your first method.

I'm far from being a Javascript expert, but I thought it was missing
there, too. My one bit of Javascript coding a few years back I ended
up having to do something like this to make mutiline text messages.
Of course, Python can do the multiline messages natively...
Mats Wichmann



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 03:59:50 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 00:59:50 -0800
Subject: jython for a large-scale web site?
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203140059.5c16cde8@posting.google.com>

Hi folks,

I work with a web company that has about 180,000 registered users, and
pretty good weekly traffic stats. Their current platform of
development includes Oracle for the data server, AOLServer for web
serving platform and TCL to script the whole thing together, with
everything running on Solaris on a few fat multiprocessor Sun
machines.

I just had a chat with the CTO (I've been trying to get him to look
into python for a while) and it seems his resistance has finally
broken (-: he spent a real weekend with the python and his initial
misgivings about significant whitespace have disapeared, and now he's
raving about how well the language 'flows'.

Suddenly, this recent convert wants to incorporate python into the
next generation build of the web site. Now he is leaning towards using
a combination of jython and java to reimplement and refactor the
design as he likes the support and momentum behind java and doesn't
want to give up the productivity benefits of a scripting language.

Now, I'm really happy to have turned the top tech decision-maker in
the company on to python (kinda validates my fascination with the
language internally :-) But I'm worried about things like performance
and scalability: is it wise to service this number of customers with
jython servlets running on tomcat for example?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Sandy


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Mar 27 13:02:59 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:02:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <15521.63244.469114.753420@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203271002460.20043-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>     Dave> Now, about profiling multithreaded applications. Do you have any
>     Dave> suggestions?
>
> Other than looking at Python/ceval.c and Modules/_hotshot.c to see what
> needs to be done, no.  A quick peek at the slides from Fred's hotshot talk
> at IPC10 suggests that multithreading is either not yet supported or not
> well-supported.  Fred probably has a better idea what still needs to be done
> if you want to tackle it.

Ok, thanks, I'll talk to him.

-Dave




From cppdan at dansmart.com  Fri Mar 29 00:33:39 2002
From: cppdan at dansmart.com (Dan Smart)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:33:39 GMT
Subject: Python & Poetry <was Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! ...(Mar 26)>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org> <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com> <mailman.1017255224.10677.python-list@python.org> <7396d2b2.0203271554.5a564e1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91E05B80224BMe@167.206.112.134>

d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate) wrote in
news:7396d2b2.0203271554.5a564e1b at posting.google.com: 
> In our case, coding is conveying an idea of a behavior to the
> computer.
<delurk>
Minor disagreement. Computers will read any old dross, a computers 
requirements for "clarity of expression" are strict but minimal. Really 
great code tells a story to other programmers, and is indeed literature.

The greatest compliment I've ever been paid, was when someone said of my 
code: "I picked it up, and I knew what it did".

Dan "Computers on the other hand have always known what my code did, even 
when I didn't" Smart
-- 
Dan Smart. C++ Programming and Mentoring.
cppdan at dansmart.com


From DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org  Fri Mar  1 13:21:05 2002
From: DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org (DeepBleu)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:21:05 -0600
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u7vhn9gdkm7917@corp.supernews.com>

"Anthony_Barker" <anthony_barker at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:899f842.0203010812.6151d817 at posting.google.com...
> "DeepBleu" <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote in message
> > Deitel and Deitel book on Python?  I personally would not touch it.
Give me
> > a book written by Lutz, Holden or Hammond any time.  But not from the
> > establishment of Deitel.  I bet you they do not even know how to program
in
> > Python.  All their books are churned out by what resembles an
> > industry-complex with standard issue.
> > Long ago I discovered a mistake in their old C++ How to Program.  I sent
> > them an e-mail.  The answer still brings vivd memories of when you feel
like
> > throwing up.  Arrogant bunch of oppurtunists who are not worth the price
of
> > the paper their books are printed on.
> > You want books on Python:  Buy Beazley, Lundh, Holden, Hammond, Greyson
> > etc....
> > Leave Deitel alone!
> > DeepBleu
>
> [...........] That said,
> more books on the python landscape is a good thing. And as the
> previous poster said, programming books are a personal thing.
>
I certainly agree with you on this one.  I had formed a negative bias about
them out of my old encounter with them over the error in C++ How to Program.
>
> I would love to see books on Algorithms with Python (makes a perfect
> fit), and more advanced topics such as threads and extending python.

I'd love to see something like that specially on threads and extending
Python.  This is something I can use.
DeepBleu




From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Mar 12 14:49:11 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:49:11 GMT
Subject: Manage Windows shortcut in Python
References: <3C8E4514.3E8D6684@impathnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <u7kohh8jj.fsf@online.no>

As often when things are about windows, win32all is the answer. (I
think the package is called something with shell)
-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 24 15:18:15 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:18:15 GMT
Subject: no access to lib dir
References: <Ooqn8.5968$EE4.23248@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <bwqn8.5971$EE4.23353@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Just a note,

Since i wish to run the script on a university server, i have no access to
where python keeps it's libraries for me to put my script there.

I still strive to believe there is a way - and that someone knows and can
help me.

Cheers

--
Trung Hoang
Final year Undergraduate of Computer Science and Technology
University of Sydney, Australia.


"Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Ooqn8.5968$EE4.23248 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I've located the problem down to this. i have a file "xml.py" which has a
> function "getProjects()" which i would like to access from c. In the
> interpreter i execute the following commands:
>
>     Python 2.1.2 (#2, Jan 18 2002, 11:23:35)
>     [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
>     Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>     >>> modname = "xml"
>     >>> mod = __import__(modname)
>     >>> mod
>     <module 'xml' from 'xml.py'>
>     >>>
>
> so that says that the module is locatable by the interpreter. but when i
> compile and run the following program:
>
>     #include <Py/Python.h>
>
>     int main (int argc, char *argv[]) {
>             // declare variables
>             PyObject *modname = NULL;
>             PyObject *mod = NULL;
>
>             // init
>             Py_Initialize();
>
>             modname = PyString_FromString("xml");
>             mod = PyImport_Import(modname);
>             if (mod == NULL) printf("mod is null\n");
>
>             Py_XDECREF(mod);
>             Py_XDECREF(modname);
>             Py_Exit(0);
>     }
>
> it prints out "mod is null" meaning it cant find the module.
>
> Does anyone have a working example of Pure Embedding? It's for my personal
> private project - for fun, supposedly, well before it was, not my
> assignment.
>
> Please :(
> Cheeeeeeeeeeers
>
> --
> Trung Hoang
> Final year Undergraduate of Computer Science and Technology
> University of Sydney, Australia.
>
>




From cmaloney at physics.ucsb.edu  Fri Mar  1 12:25:46 2002
From: cmaloney at physics.ucsb.edu (Craig Maloney)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 09:25:46 -0800
Subject: Scripting C++ -- 2 -- a more concrete example.
References: <3C7E6642.2030202@physics.ucsb.edu> <slrna7tidr.8aq.elflord@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <6bf54244.0203010925.38d237ed@posting.google.com>

Donovan Rebbechi <elflord at panix.com> wrote in message news:<slrna7tidr.8aq.elflord at panix2.panix.com>...
> In article <3C7E6642.2030202 at physics.ucsb.edu>, Craig Maloney wrote:
> > If using a wrapper generator (e.g. SILOON) I don't see a way around the 
> > marshalling of the call to get at the atom data structure.
> 
> I don't really understand exactly what the problem is. 
> > 
> > Of course, this would be taken care of by a revamp of the design of the 
> > class library... maybe making the crystal an atom factory that produces 
> > new atoms in its own address space.  But I would like to avoid thinking 
> 
> Now I'm really confused. If you're not using CORBA, the atoms are in the
> same address space, aren't they ?

This is how I presumed that Boost also worked -- I must be mistaken.
After having seen yours and Ralf's comments, I now have the impression
that Boost works it's magic differently.

Perhaps Craig Rasmussen could enlighten us as to how SILOON deals with
co-location issues such as the one above?

>From the SILOON doc/design.html page :
-----------------------------------------
 The goal of SILOON is to generate bindings so that users can access
the functionality of an existing application or library from a
scripting language. In order to accomplish this, the essential
functionality of SILOON is separated into three separate modules:

   1. Client Interface.   The client script is responsible for calling
the client interface using a low level invoke function with the name
of the function to be invoked and with function parameters. The client
interface is responsible for translating the function name received
from the client into a function identifier (an integer), which is
associated with the requested function on the server. The function
identifier is marshalled into a buffer, along with function arguments
received from the scripting client. This buffer is then handed off to
the transport layer to be delivered to the compute server. On
completion of the function call, the transport layer returns the
buffer and the client interface is responsible for unmarshalling the
return value and passing it on to the client. The remote method
invocation is done synchronously with the client blocking until the
call has completed. The client interface also comprises user-friendly
script wrapper classes and an alias mechanism that lets the user
redefine names of functions.
   2. Transport Layer.  The transport layer is responsible for
delivering the argument buffer to the server and subsequently
returning the buffer to the client interface when the method
invocation has completed.
   3. Server.  The responsibility of the server is to unmarshall the
function arguments from the received argument buffer and then to call
the correct function. After the function has finished executing, the
returned value is marshalled into the argument buffer and the buffer
is returned to the transport layer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Tue Mar 19 02:11:45 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:11:45 +0100
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
In-Reply-To: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20020319071145.GA385@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Andrew Markebo <flognat at flognat.myip.org> [2002-03-19 07:33 +0000]:
> I am messing a bit with my bookmarks [...]

Just as a remark: Maybe you could use XBEL (XML Bookmark Exchange Language).
IIRC it was invented for Grail, a Python/Tkinter based web browser. There's
even support for it in the Python/XML package. Some other browers support it
nowadays: It's now Konqueror's native bookmark format and Galeon can import and
export it.

On my homepage (=> sig) you can find a IMO nice XSLT stylesheet for it.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))



From wecaputo at thoughtworks.com  Sat Mar  9 02:01:08 2002
From: wecaputo at thoughtworks.com (logosity)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:01:08 -0000
Subject: short-circuit behavior anomaly?
Message-ID: <a6cbvk+ld2o@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I was working through this tutorial:
http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_13.txt

Which shows the statements in the following functions (imp and fn) as 
equivalent:

def pr(s): print s

def imp():
    if x == 1: pr('one')
    elif x == 2: pr('two')
    else: pr('other')	
	
def fn():
    (x == 1 and pr('one')) \
 or (x == 2 and pr('two')) \
 or (pr('other'))

Here is a sample program:
x = 1
imp()
x = 2
imp()
x = 3
imp()
print
x = 1
fn()
x = 2
fn()
x = 3
fn()

When run, this produces the following output:
one
two
other

one
other
two
other
other

IOW, the third clause gets evaluated regardless of the outcome of the 
first two clauses.

However, substituting the following in fn() will produce the same 
result as imp():
print (x == 1 and ("one")) or (x == 2 and ('two'))  or ('other')

Implying something to do with the function calls -- if I replace the 
pr('one') call in the line again will cause 'other' to be printed 
after 'one')

I am wondering, is this a mistake in the tutorial, a change in 
behavior between versions (I am using 2.1 and the tutorial seems to 
be written against 2.0), a bug in Python, or something else?

I have looked through the FAQ, browsed the bug list at SF, read the 
relevant sections of the language reference and searched (as best I 
could) the mailing list archive here (and at google), but I can't 
find out what the deal is.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bill




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 15 17:31:23 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 22:31:23 GMT
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6tsnr$npd$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:26:30 -0800, "Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:

>Anybody have any experience generating word frequencies from short documents
>with Python and Perl?  Given a choice between the two, I'm wondering what
>will be faster.  And a related question... any idea if there will be a
It'll take 15 minutes to get a program working in Python ;-)
Ok, maybe a bit longer if your docs have tricky syntax to write
a splitting regex for ;-)

>significant performance hit (or advantage?) from storing the data in MySQL
>v. my own file-based data structures?
>
If all you want is to be able to get it back within another (or the same, later)
Python program, check into the pickle module. You could just dump the directory
of directories I describe below, I believe.

>I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so) documents at
>a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.  I'm thinking that
>the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of useless data.  Since
>word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm guessing that I can spot
>unusual words (my goal here) by loading up the top 80 percent or so of words
>in the database (by occurrences) and focusing on the words that are in the
>docs but not in the set retrieved from the database.
>
>Thanks for any thoughts on this and pointers to helpful examples or modules.
>
I'd just code up a short Python program using a python dictionary with words
as keys and counts as values for each file, and put all these  word frequency
dictionaries in a file dictionary with keyed by file name.

I'd bet everything fits in memory, unless you have an incredible corpus of
words in your files, or small memory.

Isolating words will depend on document syntax etc. You may be able to do it
by splitting with a compiled regular expression for a combination of white
space and punctuation.


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tbabbitt at commspeed.net  Thu Mar  7 11:10:16 2002
From: tbabbitt at commspeed.net (Tom Babbitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:10:16 -0700
Subject: very newbie question
References: <61ff32e3.0203070659.28cf5e1c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1015517718.445890@news.commspeed.net>

"ron nixon" <ron at ire.org> wrote in message
news:61ff32e3.0203070659.28cf5e1c at posting.google.com...
> I've got a script called snakes saved to my c: drive and I want to run
> it from IDLE. By when I do file open and run script, I get an invalid
> syntax message. Likewise if I write the script in IDLE and hit "run
> script" it get a message saying that says "the buffer for Python Shell
> is not saved. Please save it first." Soooo. With all that being said.
> How do I save a script and then get python to execute it from IDLE(and
> where in the documentation is this?)
>
> Thanks in advance

It's not clear why you want to run your program from IDLE, you mite want to
just run it with phython (ie 'c:\Python22\python snakes.py' (you could need
to rename the filename to *.py)).

Tom Babbitt




From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 01:20:03 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 06:20:03 GMT
Subject: wxPython: generating event IDs?
Message-ID: <slrna8lup9.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

I'm trying to figure out a simple way to attach commands to
buttons in wxPython.  The standard method seems to be

 1) Define a unique ID number
 2) Assign that ID number to the button
 3) Hook a closure to that ID number with EVT_XXXX() 

This seems a bit complicated compared to other toolkits where
you just hook the closure to the button when the button is
created.  I'm sure the wxPython approach has advantages I
haven't stumbled across yet, but all the examples I've found
could have been handled by the simpler method.

There must be a way to eliminate the need to predefine unique
ID numbers.  I hate trying to maintain lists of numbers like
that (well, more accurately, I'm just bad at it).

I tried using id(self.Command), but all of the bound methods of
an object seem to have the same id (as do all of the unbound
methods).  This seems quite weird:

  id(self.x) == id(self.y)  is true
     self.x is self.y       is false  

According to my reading of the language reference, this isn't
possible, since "is" compares the id's of the objects.

I thought about using the id() of the button, but you don't
know that until after the button is created, and you need to 
pass the ID in when the button is created.

There must be a simple solution that I've overlooked...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Do you have exactly
                                  at               what I want in a plaid
                               visi.com            poindexter bar bat??


From moxie_is at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 19:54:46 2002
From: moxie_is at yahoo.com (moxie)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 16:54:46 -0800
Subject: Python/JXTA
Message-ID: <b1078faa.0203171654.45461a49@posting.google.com>

It may be a good idea to create Python bindings for
JXTA (P2P [peer-2-peer] networking solution from Sun)...

http://www.jxta.org/project/www/background.html


Just a thought ;)

~= moxie =~


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar  1 00:27:49 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:27:49 -0600
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
Message-ID: <00bb01c1c0e1$d9045940$0101010a@local>

In the PC subdir of the Python-2.1.2 build directory is a module
called getpathp.c, which sets up the initial sys.path value.  It
is well known by Python programmers on Windows that the sys.path
initialization includes directories plucked from special registry
keys... unless you are using the PythonWare version.

I thought, great, I can use this (the PythonWare version) to create 
Python runnables on CD-ROM; but now I discover a fly in the ointment.
If the computer already has an installed Python interpreter, the 
paths set in the registry are added, and BEFORE the paths from the
PythonWare PYROOT variable are added.

Gah.

What I want is a version of either python.exe or python21.dll
(whichever contains the offending getpathp.c module) with the
registry-probing code disabled.  Ideally it should still apply
the paths from PYROOT (basically in this case it must).

Can anyone help with this?  I am experienced in Linux programming
but a novice at Win32, and I don't have MSVC in any event.  (Yeah,
I know, you can build Python with MinGW32, but it's a PITA.)

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net





From damononnews at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 23:47:09 2002
From: damononnews at hotmail.com (Damon Lynch)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 20:47:09 -0800
Subject: [Newbie] Code for web-based "members" database?
Message-ID: <a7d71b8.0203062047.44b72317@posting.google.com>

Hi everyone, 

Does anybody have any suggestions for finding code that will help
solve the following problem:

I have a members database whose main purpose is to allow members to
view other members based on interest areas (and geographical location,
projects etc. etc.).  The database should reflect that areas of
interest are related to one another in non hierarchal ways.  For
instance, supposing an area of interest is biodiversity conservation,
and another area is urban air pollution, and another is organic
agriculture.  Anyone doing a members' search on environment should
find people with those areas of interest.  But someone doing a search
on agriculture should find organic agriculture, and not urban air
pollution.

It would be nice if people could suggest new areas of interest for
validation.

The database is currently stored in a flat file (yuck!).  It could be
stored in a relational database, assuming that is the best way of
storing it.  Or any other manner I suppose!

Unsurprisingly, access to this database is over the web. A relatively
minor point is that I use e-mail addresses from  to send out regular
e-mail updates.

Is there already-existing python code that handles this type of
problem?

Thanks in advance! 
Damon


From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 21 08:22:14 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:22:14 GMT
Subject: How to install pychecker?
References: <jgmj9ucgm47i87dp6eie5l5frn65ntfrpl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ulmcm128d.fsf@python.net>

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> writes:

> I thought I'd try this out.
> 
> In the absence of any instructions (that I can find) I tried unzipping
> it to a directory and running setup.py.
> 
> I got this:
> 
> C:\Program Files\pychecker-0.8.10>setup.py
> usage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
>    or: setup.py --help [cmd1 cmd2 ...]
>    or: setup.py --help-commands
>    or: setup.py cmd --help
> 
> error: no commands supplied
> 
> What am I supposed to do?

python setup.py install

Did you try

setup.py --help

or 

setup.py --help-commands

?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Of course, it obviously is beta hardware so such things are to be
  expected, but that doesn't mean that you can't point your fingers
  and generate a nelson style HAHA at a multi billion dollar
  corporation's expense.                   -- CmdrTaco on slashdot.org


From olc at ninti.com  Wed Mar 27 13:49:04 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:19:04 +0930 (CST)
Subject: Python Web Programming Book?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203280411520.1498-100000@localhost.localdomain>

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest the best (or a selection of the
best) books available covering the use of Python in a web and database
environment? It's OK if the book deals with other stuff, as long as its
treatment of web programming and database integration is good. 

Is a book that also deals with Zope, Cheetah and Albatross or
related topics (embedded Python, I suppose) asking just too
much?

A good text will certainly cut down my newbie questions to this list.
So far I have Mark Lutz' "Python Programming" and Andre Lessa's "Python
Developer's Handbook" on my shortlist.

Mick




From barry at zope.com  Wed Mar 20 01:55:38 2002
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:55:38 -0500
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org>
	<7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>
	<u4rjdred0.fsf@python.net>
	<vDsl8.992$%m2.418@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
	<a74sdh.3vsec89.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <15512.12906.262129.702973@anthem.wooz.org>

Thanks Sheila and David for their private email heads-up; I sadly
don't have much time to follow c.l.py.  Also, thanks to Andrew for
filing the SF bug.

>>>>> "SK" == Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> writes:

    SK> OK, I got the latest email module from the CVS. I installed
    SK> it. I ran the tests for the module. Everything tested out
    SK> fine.

    SK> I now eagerly get out my code from last night, that was
    SK> causing the 'int' has no attribute .lower error, and run it,
    SK> hoping for different results.

    SK> No good. Same results. :(

I now know what's going on, why I thought the bug was fixed, why
others disagreed <wink>, and I think I have a solution.  I'm cc'ing
mimelib-devel at lists.sf.net because my proposed solution has two parts,
one for Python 2.2.1 and one for Python 2.3.

Background: In Python 2.2, if you have a Message instance with a MIME
type of multipart/* but you have only one subpart, the Generator would
throw the exception that Sheila describes.  This is because the
payload of the outer part isn't a list, but the Generator expects a
list for multipart/* parts.  A multipart/* with one subpart, must have
a payload which is a list of length one, i.e. element zero would be
the single subpart.

What I fixed, and what is in Python 2.2.1, is the Parser class, which
takes a plain text representation of the message, and produces the
message object tree.  In the Parser, I always make sure that the
payload is a list for multipart/* MIME types by doing this:

                # Ensure that the container's payload is a list
                if not isinstance(container.get_payload(), ListType):
                    container.set_payload([msgobj])
                else:
                    container.add_payload(msgobj)

This works fine -- for object trees that are built by the parser from
flat text.  It doesn't work so well when you're building the object
tree from scratch, unless you employ the same kludge!  I gather from
the c.l.py thread that folks are going through the third example in
the Python 2.2 documentation

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node389.html

finding themselves with a directory with just a single file in it, and
are seeing Generator blow up when they end up with a multipart/*
object with a non-sequence payload.  Well, the example doesn't employ
this kludge, so it crashes.

Let me first outline what I think is the Right Fix and then what I
propose for Python 2.2.1.

The right fix is to clean up the messy semantics of
Message.add_payload(), where the first time you call it, it will set
the message's payload to the payload argument (a scalar), but the
/second/ time you call it, it transforms the payload into a list, then
appends the new payload to this list.

This is really pretty gross, and it rubbed me the wrong way when I
designed it, but I didn't have any better ideas at the time so there
you have it.  I believe this is the heart of the breakage.

What I think we ought to do is to deprecate Message.add_payload() but
leave its semantics unchanged, change Message.attach() to not be an
alias for add_payload(), and define the semantics of attach() to
always set the payload to a list.  Thus, the first time you call
attach().  I think attach() should retain the semantics that if the
MIME type isn't multipart/* it should throw an exception (i.e. you
can't attach() to a non-multipart; use set_type() first).

This means that if never set, a Message's payload would be None.
After the first attach() it would be a list of length one, and
subsequent attach()'ments would increase the length of the payload.

To get the old, initial semantics of add_payload(), you'd instead call
set_payload() which always just sets the message's payload to the
method's argument.  This would be used, for example, when you have a
message/rfc822 MIME type and want to set the payload to an instance of
a MIMEMessage, or if you have a image/gif and want to set the payload
to an instance of MIMEImage.

For Python 2.3 (and for the next version of the standalone email
package), I'd like to add a DeprecationWarning to add_payload(), then
make the semantic change to attach().  The downside is that this might
break code that relied on these semantics, however, I think if you had
such an object tree, you wouldn't be able to use the Generator to
flatten it anyway.  I'm open to suggestions here.

There's a problem though: this isn't a change that should be made in
Python 2.2.1!  It changes the API to the email package, and that
should only be done in Python 2.3, IMO.

For Python 2.2, I /think/ I can fix Generator._handle_multipart() to
watch out for subparts that are scalar[1].  If so, then the patch to
the Parser described above probably ought to be backed out.  As long
as the unit tests pass, I think we'd be okay.  This is probably a good
patch to keep for Python 2.3, just to be safe.

I'll try to work out a patch for Python 2.2.1 tomorrow.

Comments?
-Barry

[1] There's a related problem for when there's no payload at all for a
multipart/* message.  I think the same fix to
Generator._handle_multipart() can be made to handle this case, but
fixing the Parser will be a little more difficult.  I'll try though.



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar 11 07:48:38 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:48:38 +0300
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
In-Reply-To: <3C8CA56B.7050505@med.uni-tuebingen.de>; from rupert.kolb@med.uni-tuebingen.de on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 01:39:07PM +0100
References: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de> <20020311140817.L25769@phd.pp.ru> <3C8CA56B.7050505@med.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <20020311154838.O25769@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 01:39:07PM +0100, Rupert Kolb wrote:
> >>for weeks, I'm trying to reach the home page of the Gadfly DB.
> >>   http://www.chordate.com/gadfly.html doesn't work.
> >>Is this my fault?
> > 
> >    No, it is down for some time, and probably forever. The original author
> > stopped working on it.
> >
> 
> Are the sources available somewhere?
> Is there a new home page for Gadfly?
> Is there anybody who will maintain such a page?

   My answer is no better than http://sourceforge.net/projects/gadfly/

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From wade at lightlink.com  Tue Mar  5 07:30:03 2002
From: wade at lightlink.com (Wade Leftwich)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 04:30:03 -0800
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>	<3C8451E1.B2CD032@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.1015306879.28146.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5b4785ee.0203050430.1ab41c9d@posting.google.com>

"Tim Legant" <tim-dated-1015911613.b601d0 at catseye.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015306879.28146.python-list at python.org>...
> Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> 
> > Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> > > 
> > > Python isn't necessarily slow:
> > 
> > That sounds like a great title for a Python
> > song: "It Ain't Necessarily Slow!"
> > 
> > Anyone want to contributes some lyrics?
> 
>   Things that you're liable
>   To read in Deitel & Deitel
>   Ain't necessarily so...
> 
> Hmm. Not exactly right...
> 
>   Strings that you're liable
>   To search for, from Friedl
>   Ain't necessarily slow!
> 
> 
> That's better,
> 
> Tim

You say "Free - del", and I say "Fry - del" ...
-- Wade


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 25 08:46:25 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:46:25 GMT
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org> <kuadsx2958.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3@engcorp.com> <ku663l2598.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <uhen4ycxe.fsf@python.net>

Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:

> | The difference in memory consumption between creating a list 
> | of size 1,000,000 filled with 0's and the same size list filled 
> | with integers from 0 to 999,999 is rather large...
> 
> you make it sound more mysterious than it is - only numbers under
> 100 and identifier-like string literals get interned, afaik.

One character strings too.  Also the empty string and the empty tuple.

M.

-- 
  I'm sorry, was my bias showing again? :-)
                                      -- William Tanksley, 13 May 2000


From jbell at iinet.net.au  Wed Mar 27 03:31:01 2002
From: jbell at iinet.net.au (John Bell)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:31:01 +0800
Subject: Can I use python code to login a website?
References: <a50631f6.0203262119.3b9db7a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA18345.3020205@iinet.net.au>


newgene wrote:

> Hi, group,
>      
>      I am wondering if possible to use python code to login a website
> need username and password, like mail.yahoo.com. Another type of
> website is poping up a authorization box asking for username and
> password instead of a input form within the webpage.


It sure is!  The main modules you'll need to look at are httplib, urllib 
and urllib2.  However, web programming is a pretty big topic and it 
would probably be best to tackle it methodically.  Mark Lutz' "Python 
Programming" devotes several hundred pages to internet scripting. 
Somewhere on the web (I can't locate the reference at the moment) 
someone's putting together a Python text processing book.  Look in the 
mail list archives for details.  This also has a section on these 
topics, but from memory not yet written.


> 
> Thanks you in advance.
> 
> Newgene
> 



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sun Mar 24 17:18:37 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 23:18:37 +0100
Subject: The OOM-Killer vs. Python
References: <3c9e2b5f.9993062@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91DBED451517cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) wrote in news:3c9e2b5f.9993062
@news.t-online.de:
> I have a python-based SMTP server (see http://p-nand-
> q.com/shicks.htm)
> running on our server, and in general it has worked flawless (since
> about nov 2001). However, in the recent week that dreaded linux OOM
> killer twice killed the python process. [The machine has 768mb ram 
> call me oldfashioned but that SHOULD be enough for both Linux & 
> Python
> to get along, really. OK, its running KDE, and has only 256mb for
> swap, but still...]

maybe you have some other leaking app and the OOM killer just picks 
the largest.
if you want a reliable server i wouldn't use it as workstation too 
:-)

> Anyway, even though I believe that this is more of a fault of the
> Linux Kernel VM quality than the script (the system has been 
> running
> fine for months and now two kills in one week - that smells fishy 

you can put the server in inetd.conf or initab so its atleast 
restarted after the kill (to limit downtime...)

> to me) - how CAN I controll the memory usage for pythons GC? Is 
> there a way to easily find out in python which memory is allocated 
> at runtime, and by which objects?

don't know. you could periodicaly save "top" outputs and see which 
process grows.

chris


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From owen at xastrox.xwashingtonx.edu.invalid  Thu Mar 14 12:13:16 2002
From: owen at xastrox.xwashingtonx.edu.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:13:16 -0800
Subject: Why I think range is a wart
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6qlne$1md4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c at 4ax.com>,
 Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

>For starters, range (and xrange) is a perfectly sensible, reasonable and
>useful buit-in. But the biggest use I make of it is in iterating through
>a list, e.g. as in
>
>for index in range(len(mylist)):
>    <whatever>
>
>and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
>sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
>myself doing this quite often.

I agree. In particular, I often find myself wanting to deal with items 
from multiple lists of equal length. Often map or zip would do the job 
(though at the cost of creating a new list for which I have no use!) but 
a cleaner way to express it would be appreciated, something like:

for item1, item2 in list1, list2
   # lots of code here

Regarding the suggestion to add the dictionary iterators methods to 
lists: nice idea. The analogy is nice. If any such methods are added, 
I'd vote for adding the full suite (iterkeys, itervalues, iteritems...), 
for consistency. I doesn't completely solve the problem I'm facing, but 
would clean up the notation a little and it makes plenty of sense.

-- Russell
-- 
Return      owen
address     astro
garbled     washington
in header   edu


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 15 19:40:43 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 01:40:43 +0100
Subject: Iterator slicing?
References: <slrna953vh.h7j.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <m33cz1s5tg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:

> Or perhaps this is better suited for a specific wrapper in the
> (possibly) upcoming iterator module... Hm.

I would think so. It is also debatable whether an iterator slice
should support indexing, or should be an iterator of its own. I'd say
there are applications for both, so just make them functions.

Regards,
Martin


From Dag at animagicnet.no  Thu Mar 28 07:19:35 2002
From: Dag at animagicnet.no (Dag)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 12:19:35 GMT
Subject: webmin modules in python
Message-ID: <slrnaa65i4.36o.Dag@omally.animagicnet.no>

I've started working on a webmin (www.webmin.com) module.  However
I would really like to write it in python rather than perl, which
seems to be the standard.  However webmin seems to assume that all
modules are to written in perl and thus all the common functions
come from perl scripts.

Has anybody written a python wrapper or found any other way to easily
write python modules for webmin.  I suppose I could write a perl
'middleware' broker which sends commands between webmin and my 
python script, but I was looking for a clean sollution.

Dag


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 05:38:43 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 10:38:43 GMT
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
References: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <u4rjc4bzw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a7kabj$31d$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi,

> > With Python-2.2.1c1, I find `make test' fails on my old version of
> > Linux/x86 and it fails to build on an also old version of AIX.  ...
> > I can see the problem with the AIX build.  Linux SIGSEGVs in
> > test_calendar on a call to strftime.

OK, I've raised all the AIX problems on SourceForge now.  By working
around them I can get a python executable and most of the library.
(Modules/_cursesmodule.c fails to compile but I'm not sure if is
intended to be widely buildable.)

The Linux/x86 problem has also been fixed and thanks to Tim an overall
improvement made, e.g. month_name[0].

Thanks for everyone's help,


Ralph.



From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Fri Mar  8 15:10:59 2002
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:10:59 -0800
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com> <4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com> <2030665d.0203070126.55addc33@posting.google.com> <3C87A28B.549D9B1C@noaa.gov> <2030665d.0203080406.5b1b008b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C891AD3.ADA924B5@noaa.gov>

Sam Collett wrote:
> 
> How would you remove trailing 0's?
> e.g.
> Instead of 12.20kb it would be 12.2kb
> 23kb instead of 23.00 etc

I don't see a way to do it with format specifiers. %g doesn't print
trailing zeros, but it goes into exponential notation for larger values.
If you were sure if your values, you might be able to use it.

Otherwise, you can write a little function with string methods (or maybe
even a regular expression) that would strip them off for you.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  9 15:46:35 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:46:35 GMT
Subject: List of lists: caveat?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091505530.12114-100000@laureloak.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <Lwui8.160797$7a1.13954035@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"George Thomas" <george at cc.gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091505530.12114-100000 at laureloak.cc.gatech.edu.
..
> Hi everyone,

Hi.

> I just tried creating a 2D array the 'list-of-lists' way as follows:
> two_d_array = [ [0] * 20] * 10 # Creates a 10 * 20 array  -- (I)

This creates a list (which I will call 'tda' hereafter) of 10
*identical* references to the *same* inner list object.  And,
similarly, the inner list consists of 20 *identical* references to the
*same* integer object with value 0.  You can verify both statements
with id(object).  You do not notice the inner sameness as much because
a statement such as

> two_d_array[0][3] = 1 # Sets element [0][3] to 1

destroys that sameness, but leaves the outer sameness untouched.

> I expected nothing unnerving, except that
> print two_d_array[1][3]
> gives me 1
> as does print two_d_array[any valid index from 0 to 9][3]

Since tda[0] is tda[1] ... is tda[9] by construction, and you have not
changed it, why would you expect elsewise?  (;<)

If that sameness is not what you want, construct differently:

tda = [None]*10
for i in len(tda): tda[i] = [0]*20

You now have 10 *different* references to 10 identity-different but
value-equal lists, which you can independently modify.  Again, use
id() to check.

Terry J. Reedy









From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 20 23:34:39 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:34:39 +0100
Subject: Python & IRC
In-Reply-To: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020321043439.GA2043@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Felix <nixdisciplenews at hotmail.com> [2002-03-20 23:07 -0500]:
> Greetings everyone,
> 
> I'm not sure if you guys here might be able ot help me but i have been
> looking up and down for a irc client that allows me ot script in
> python.

I've also looked for such a thing but haven't found anything usable.

> I found one but it doesn't seem that the owners of this client are
> making any type of head way in it's development. I know Xchat allows
> to use python as a scripting language but that is with the linux
> version not windows.

xchat's Python support sucks. They even admit it in the docs.

Btw. where's the problem in building Xchat with Python support yourself
on Windows?

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 12.1 ?C      Wind: 9.3 m/s



From matthias_j at lycos.com  Fri Mar  1 12:08:22 2002
From: matthias_j at lycos.com (Matthias Janes)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 09:08:22 -0800
Subject: Can't seem to get it right: Win NT registry save and load
Message-ID: <d7d5ebdf.0203010908.113324ea@posting.google.com>

Hi I would like in a python script to save a Win NT Registry entry to
a file and load it later -
but it's seems I can't get it right.

win32api.RegSaveKey
RegSaveKey(key, filename, sa)

I could not realy figure out the 3 part (sa )

get always a error about the security rights.

after I saved it how could I load it again?

 Any Help would be real nice.

Matthias Janes


From herrn at gmx.net  Mon Mar 25 18:13:40 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 23:13:40 GMT
Subject: starting a python program from within xemacs
Message-ID: <1017098019.357959@DS9.ai-lab.fh-furtwangen.de>

Hi there,

sorry if this is the wrong newsgroup to ask, but I tried in
comp.emacs.xemacs and nobody could help me, probably because too few
people there code in python :-)

I develop a program that uses the curses library in xemacs. But for
testing my program I have to save it in xemacs, switch to a terminal and
call python myprog.py. Because I use curses, a C-c C-c doesn't work
because the xemacs output window isn't capable of using curses.

Is there a way to execute the content of my current xemacs buffer in a
terminal/x-terminal?

Bye
Marco

-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 22:59:51 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:59:51 -0500
Subject: Deeply embedded Python still alive?
References: <SX1o8.573$vm6.188350@ruti.visi.com> <a7qtqg$u3f$0@216.39.172.122> <U27o8.610$vm6.225166@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3CA143B7.DED16DF5@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:10:10 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
> >
> >>The link I have for the Deeply Embedded Python port
> >><http://www.abo.fi/~iporres/python/> has been broken for
> >>several months now.  Anybody know what happened to that
> >>project?

> Further googling found this paper describing the project:
> 
>   http://www.tucs.fi/Magazin/Page.cgi?ID=2000.N2.LilDeEmPy

Thanks for the link, Grant.

In case anyone is remotely interested, between 1.5 and 1 year
ago we were deeply into porting Python to our own PC104-based
environment which at the time was a 386SX board with 1MB of
RAM and 1MB of flash, running at 33MHz.

For a variety of reasons, listed below, we abandoned the project
after prototyping and have since moved on to a higher powered
board (thankfully we had that option) running standard Linux
and standard Python, now with 32MB RAM and CompactFlash modules
(currently the image is around 24MB) on a 100MHz 486.

The main reasons for leaving the embedded effort were, in 
descending order of importance to us:

1. Non-standard persistent storage: 1MB flash could not
   be treated as a hard drive and code had to run from 
   RAM while reprogramming it.  With CompactFlash under
   Linux we just see a small hard drive and use open().

2. Performance: Python on a 33MHz 386 is just not the 
   fastest thing on the planet, and more to the point was
   insufficient for our needs.  If (1) hadn't been a
   killer this would have.

3. Cost of supporting our own proprietary port: I mean
   proprietary in the sense of we had to worry about it,
   not that it had to remain closed.  Going standard
   let's us get the application out faster and moves
   us faster towards contributing source back to the
   community (which in the interim I thank most earnestly
   for the shoulders we're standing on and ask patience
   for those like us who have to take time working on
   ancient corporate attitudes and first-to-market 
   concerns before we can give anything back).

The most beautiful thing about the whole effort is that
it took almost no effort to "port" our code from the 
experimental platform to the current one.  Python is 
easily the most portable language I've had the good fortune
to program in.  The only changes we made were for low-level
code which interfaced to a dual-port memory, the 
serial port interface code, and some low-level locking/
messaging code which we "mocked" for a while until we 
refactored and ditched the old stuff since it was made
almost entirely redundant by Queue and friends.

Just thought I'd share while we're on the subject...

-Peter


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Mar 21 02:17:20 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 18:17:20 +1100
Subject: ANN: Logging Module v0.4 released
References: <2e37dc1.0203201754.50a15e80@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016676752.14977.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m38z8mmltr.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Jones <rjones at ekit-inc.com> writes:

Richard> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54, Vinay Sajip wrote:
>> A new version of the proposed Python standard logging module (as
>> per PEP 282) has been released. You can get all the information
>> from

Richard> Having looked at the excellent work being done here, I wonder
Richard> what's happening at the other end of the pipeline. That is,
Richard> what's listening for the events that the logger is
Richard> generating? Has anyone got any plans to write a logging sink
Richard> for the other end?

Richard> The sink would perform the following duties: - accept events
Richard> from the logging module via all the logging module's handlers
Richard> - present a display of the events to a user, either
Richard> graphically or textually (the most basic of these would
Richard> resemble the UNIX tail -f) - redistribution of events to
Richard> other targets - filter incoming events, possibly aggregating,
Richard> possibly dropping - have state which would be affected by the
Richard> filters and may cause new events to be generated
Richard> (ie. escalation)

Richard> Anyone think this is a good idea?

I don't think this is a good idea.  I think this is a great idea.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Mar  7 14:34:47 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:34:47 -0800
Subject: hotmail
In-Reply-To: <a689ml$cbf9b$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.1015102571.6690.python-list@python.org> <a689ml$cbf9b$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20020307193447.GD29379@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Bertrand Geston (bergeston at yahoo.fr):
> Seems to be magic, thanks for the question and for the response. Really
> interesting.
> I would like to retrieve mails from Hotmail and I wonder if it is not
> 'better' to use COM/DOM on Outlook express that can, if I am not mistaken,
> retrieve mails from Hotmail using http requests. By 'better', I mean less
> linked to the hotmail site layout (but OK linked to the Oultook DOM
> interface) and probably quicker.
> 
> Any thought, idea, code snippets ?

I did some research on this once upon a time, and I think Outlook
Express actually uses POP, but the POP authentication is hooked into
the Microsoft Passport system. And I think newer versions of Outlook
are supposed to support Hotmail, but older versions don't.

I was able to locate one (commercial) product that would fetch mail
from Hotmail as if it were an Outlook Express client, but it was a
Windows product and I was really wanting something I could use on
Linux.

I settled on gotmail and moved my free email to yahoo, where they let
you POP if you agree to let them spam you with ads, but stuff still
trickles into my hotmail -- give me a shout if you get something
working "the hard way"!

Hope the little bit of informational content in this message helps....

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts        <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments 
when he was merely stupid."        --Heinrich Heine



From Tjabo.Kloppenburg at unix-ag.org  Sat Mar 23 06:56:04 2002
From: Tjabo.Kloppenburg at unix-ag.org (Tjabo Kloppenburg)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:56:04 -0100
Subject: Extending the interactive mode [not really an ANN :) ]
Message-ID: <E16oip4-0008BL-00@mail.python.org>

hi,

I use python22 and dreamt about a comfortable way of using the interactive 
mode to find information about what methods/functions a class/module provides 
and what the helpful __doc__ string says (keeping ri [ruby] in my mind).

The annoying way to do this in python interactive mode -- with lots of key 
strokes and many risks of mistypnig -- is to type:
  print mod.__doc__     +Enter
  print dir(mod)    +Enter

So I finally wrote a very small function to be loaded from PYTHONSTARTUP when 
using interactive mode. It is self explanatory and gives you information 
about a module by typing "info(mod)". Fairly easy...

The mighty source:

# Author: tk at bitsex.de aka tapo in #python
#
# this is a small function you can load when starting python interactivly:
#   - put it into ~/.pythonstartup 
#   - do an "export PYTHONSTARTUP=$PYTHONSTARTUP:~/.pythonstartup
#   - restart "python" or "python22" without arguments
#   - now type: "info(info)" +enter :-)

def info(mod):
  "\nThis is a small function to show some info about a module.\nUsage in 
python interactive mode:\n import sys\n info(sys)"
  print "Info for module/class '%s':" % (mod.__name__)
  print mod.__doc__
  print "\nList of methods:"
  print dir(mod)


Always on a mission to save the world,
  tk. :-)

-- 
+ 7jaB0 Kl0ppE|\|8\_/R6 + 7|<@B175Ex.[}E + [}3,3n +




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 08:15:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:15:57 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <B8ACE2AC.5F91%jonathan@onegoodidea.com>
Message-ID: <3C87680D.CC8A546C@engcorp.com>

Jonathan Hogg wrote:
> 
> On 6/3/2002 16:41, in article
> eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002 at news.service.uci.edu, "David Eppstein"
> <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> >   One of the most common uses of for-loops in Python is to iterate
> >   over an interval of integers. [...]
> 
> Is it that common?
> 
> I did a quick grep over the 2.2 library and found that around 10% of for
> loops used range. Of course, the library is pretty unrepresentative code
> since, by design, it contains all the stuff you *wouldn't* want to do
> yourself.
> 
> I did the same grep over the random Python code in my projects directory and
> found that 3% of my for loops use range. This was 12 ranges out of 408 loops
> in about 18,000 lines of code.
> 
> 12 times in the last 18,000 lines of code I've had to loop over a range.
> 
> Am I unusual in saying that I really don't care?

I don't think so, at least among programmers approaching Python
programming in a Pythonic fashion. :-)

I think I rarely use for with a range any more, because I tend to
think "if I need to do something eight times, there are probably 
eight things I'm doing something to so I should just take those
things and iterate over a list of them".  And it's rare to have
to prepare a list of exactly eight things (which would need the
for/range since you don't have the "things" already).

I don't care either, and in fact I care so little that I am against
the PEP because it adds unnecessary clutter to special cases etc.
as mentioned by others.

-Peter


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  8 11:57:42 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:57:42 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?)
References: <mailman.1015540815.12210.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-5FA85E.16390607032002@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1015594994.21811.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-C0BE13.08574208032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015594994.21811.python-list at python.org>,
 Laura Creighton <lac at strakt.com> wrote:

> By the way, for your students, what keeps you from doing this:
...
>  for index, value in zip(_indices, someList):
>           whatever_you_want()

I find "for i in range(len(list))" adequate for looping over indices of 
a list.

But much of the time, when I want to loop over integers, it's part of 
some dynamic program where the integers I want to loop over aren't the 
index set of any list, are in backwards order, aren't half-open 
intervals, etc., and the range syntax becomes more cumbersome.


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 22 07:04:48 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:04:48 -0800
Subject: How to set the Timestamp of a File
References: <mailman.1016793275.22126.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7f70m$ktbth$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

J?rg Sch?tter
> How can I set the timestamp of a file (especially under windows) with
> python? In Unix/Linux there is a tool caled touch.
> There is no problem to read the timestamp, but how can I set the
> timestamp to a desired time?

>>> print os.utime.__doc__
utime(path, (atime, utime)) -> None
utime(path, None) -> None
Set the access and modified time of the file to the given values.  If
the
second form is used, set the access and modified times to the current
time.


HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Mon Mar 11 19:47:46 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 16:47:46 -0800
Subject: Rule Engine in Python
References: <eb612768.0203101940.5565b282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3it82d32l.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

lee.ingram at 432one.com (Lee Ingram) writes:

> I have used Google to scour the web looking for an implementation of a
> rules engine using Python. I need a mechanism whereby slightly trained
> end users will be able to add / modify business rules and have them
> execute. I previously used Blaze Software's Advisor rules engine to do
> something similar. Has anyone seen, implemented, or tossed out this
> idea previously?
> 

If you are willing to use prolog as the rules language, there are
python/prolog bindings (e.g., SWI prolog).  We use python and prolog
jointly in a C++ CADenvironment.

> Inquiring minds want to know...
> 
> TIA
> 
> Lee Ingram

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 17 21:20:07 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:20:07 +0100
Subject: Windows Installation
In-Reply-To: <OqBk8.300$ID.1955@news.hananet.net>
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com> <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <OqBk8.300$ID.1955@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <20020318022006.GB80883@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> [2002-03-16 15:29 +0900]:
> [...] 
> 2) Can someone on this list help me (by writing the installer for me?) 
> [Note: this is a plea for help out of desperation].

I'll have a look next time I reboot to Windows. Have been in FreeBSD for the
whole weekend :)

> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > NSIS rocks. But AFAIR his problem is that he doesn't have a Windows
> > box to build the installer on.
> > 
> 
> What is NSIS?

Google. First hit.

Btw. I've installed WINE on FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE this weekend *without* using an
existing Windows installation. I could install NSIS on FreeBSD using WINE and I
can build installers here with it. No problem :)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 8.0 ?C      Wind: 1.6 m/s



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 20 00:08:49 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:08:49 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
>
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> >>1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
> >>2. Will Python dominate?
> >>3. Who does support Python?
[...]
> > I think if you told us what your purpose is in asking the questions,
> > the answers would be more useful and direct.  _Why_ do you want
> > to know?
> 
> I'm interested in knowing which skills will(are) being looked for.

Thanks for the clarification.  In that case, these would be my answers
to you:

2. Python will not dominate, any more than any other language will.
Python is certainly in a growth period, but it seems unlikely it
will attain the mass acceptance of Pascal, C, C++, and Java in their
day.  (Not to imply that Java's day has passed... that much is 
evident from the number of bookstore shelves devoted to it!)
But who cares?  If you go where the mass unwashed go, you'll get
the same sorts of mundane and rote jobs as the mass unwashed do.

1. As others have said, there is no such thing as an unbiased
comparison of almost anything, let alone programming languages,
let alone two with such, uh, "dedicated" users as Java and Python.
Nevertheless, even if we could find such a thing, the response
would really depend entirely on the application area.  Clearly
Java is better suited for some applications, and Python for
others.  Without defining the type of work you want to do,
any comparison is meaningless.  (E.g. "Python programs tend
to be much more readable" doesn't matter if your job involves
writing Java on a Java team doing EJB stuff, unless you 
can get the whole team to use Jython instead.)

3. The best support for either Java or Python is probably in 
their respective newsgroups.  Python's is widely known as being
one of the most polite and helpful.  The language has been
around a little longer as well, and as it's not largely a 
commercial venture this might suggest that the "support"
question is a bit of a red herring.  Do you regularly contact
the Microsoft for help with VB, or Sun for help with Java?
(Or did you mean who is "backing" the language, ensuring
its continued viability.  The answer to that is twofold:
look at the 11+ year age of Python as historical proof
it's not a flash in the pan, and note it's _open source_
so it cannot, by definition, lose viability while people
support and use it.  You can always get the source.)

Here's my best answer to you:  I happen to hire programmers
to work on my team in a wireless telecom company.  Although
we happen to have chosen to use Python in addition to C and
a few minor languages like Javascript and Assembly, where 
necessary, the language we use is hardly the most important
thing.  

Communication skills are, first and foremost, the thing I 
look for in hiring.  This includes the softer social skills
like how to work in a team and put aside one's programming
ego.  Next are adaptability, as in how easily someone can 
pick up new skills and apply them effectively.  Design 
skills are useful.  Debugging skills are very valuable, 
though rather unfortunately rare.  Probably some others 
that don't come to mind in today's economy (we're not
hiring now :-).

Way, way down the list of things I look for in a resume
is the programming languages a candidate has.  Not entirely
unimportant, but useful only taken as a whole.  I don't care 
whether somebody knows Python, and have found and hired
only one such programmer yet (and not because he knew Python).  
The others had a variety of backgrounds including Java, 
C++, Delphi, VB, C, BASIC, assembly of various kinds, 
and so forth.  Those with only a single language, or 
maybe two, probably didn't get hired.  Those with a dozen 
were more able to demonstrate their flexibility to me.

When they were hired, they went to work learning Python.
About a week later, most of them were already contributing
in a productive way.  A month later any of them could
code Python as well as they could code in any of their
previous languages.  For the most part, I would have 
expected the same of them even if we used Java (though
perhaps with a somewhat longer learning curve).

The point is, I would never hire you or anyone _because_
you knew Python, or Java.  I would hire you because
I thought you were capable of learning it and using it
effectively.  I actually tend to shy away from people 
with great lists of "certifications" in languages because
it suggests to me they have difficulty learning and 
think it's a very impressive thing that they managed
to learn enough to write an exam which tests knowledge
of syntax but little about programming skill.

My suggestion then is to "get over" the comparison thing,
and make sure you know both, and throw in others as you
come across them and have opportunity to learn. This will
make you a better programmer, because of the learning and
generalization your brain will do, not because of the 
specific skills you have.

Not all companies hire in this way, of course, but all
the best ones do. :-)

-Peter

P.S.: If you are considering Python as a massive growth
area where ex-Java programmers can go to get lucrative
jobs, you're bound to be disappointed.  As in programming,
there is no silver bullet.


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 11 11:20:27 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:20:27 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fP4j8.44354$hO6.3291654@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Graz Bukanoff" <drevenhaug at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c at posting.google.com...
> Is Python an object based programming langauge?

Given that everything in Python *is* an object, yes.  In addition. its
class/instance system is nice for learning OO programming.

On the otherhand, OO fanatics might demur, since it does not force an
OO programming style and allows procedural and even functional styles.

Most of us are more concerned that it is a good-to-program-with
language.

Terry J. Reedy





From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 17:16:37 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 22:16:37 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a881s5$50l$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi,

> [Ralph Corderoy, to Guido]
> > What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
> > elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of
> > Boolean above.
> 
> Actually, he didn't.

Yes he did.  You just snipped it so you'd have something to say ;-)

Guido wrote:

    "IMO, bool(x) is the right way to "normalize" any value into a
    truth value."

So there he is, using `truth' as opposed to `any value into a Boolean
value'.


Ralph.



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Tue Mar 26 15:59:37 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:59:37 +0100
Subject: [OT] Re: Programming Puzzle for you Experts out There
References: <3c9fa91e.506871@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3CA0E131.77BD2E8D@accessforall.nl>

Joe,

you wrote:
> 
> First a little background:
> 
> I'm in the process of writing a fatigue and damage tolerance analysis
> program using python.  One of the things the math engine can do is
> compute the remaining strength of the material after it has sustained
> damage.  However, there are two problems:
> 
> 1)  Redisual strength is influenced by two competing physical
> properties of the metal.  So far, nobody has developed a method for
> evaluating the transition between these properties so the conventional
> wisdom is to "eyeball" a curve between them.
> 
> 2)  Sometimes, the damage or fatigue involves a "ligament break", this
> will suddenly change the stress field and, not surprisingly, cause a
> step change in the residual strength curve.
> 
> So here is the problem......
> 
> I have two vectors that, when plotted against each other are mostly
> smooth with occasional inflection points and step changes.  I want to
> keep the step changes but inscribe a smooth arc below the inflection
> points that will eventually be tangent to the intersecting curves.
> 
> Now, here is the hard part......
> 
> To get the boundary conditions, I must sample the vectors "as is".
> Re-iterating the numbers to get better data will require me to go back
> into the math engine which will suck up processor time.
> 
> I've tried 4th order polynomial fits and hyperbolic fits but neither
> have been robust enough to track all of the fracture scenarios I've
> thrown at it without Gibb's overshoots or other issues.  I have not
> tried Fourier or other series fits as of yet.  Probably try that next.
>

It's been quite a while that I did numerics, but this sounds like good fun.

Some questions on finding the fractures:
- how much noise is there in your data?
- do you need those higher order techniques?
- would the abs of the raw second time derivative provide enough information?
- or even the abs of the first time derivative?

A simple iteration might work like this:
- fit the data to some smooth function,
- stop when the fit is good enough, otherwise:
- split the data on the few the most distant outliers,
- recurse on the split off parts.
With some heuristics you might even make the total amount of work
close to linear in the number of points, eg. by always having a limited
number of fractures in the data you are working on.

Regards,
Ype


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sat Mar 30 21:29:34 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:29:34 GMT
Subject: python cgi design patterns?
References: <iDap8.1563$hi7.3406@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <iwup8.3013$hi7.10971@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

no patterns?
what a shame :(

"Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message
news:iDap8.1563$hi7.3406 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Greetings,
>
> im looking for python cgi design patters. does anyone have any cool urls?
> i've found 1 and it's quite nice.
>
> http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/1998/02/kuchling/
>
> Cheers
> trungie
>
>




From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Tue Mar  5 17:19:23 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:19:23 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C8466F9.2080903@jerf.org> <_f7h8.5541$aP6.6480@rwcrnsc54> <3C851D41.3000902@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <3C85446B.B389BB0F@spam.nada.kth.se>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> non-interpreted languages don't specify it either. In fact, even IF
> C/C++ specifies the destructor order, which I don't care to look up
> right now, I would not be surprised that not all compilers will destruct
> in that order at the end of a function.

You're thinking of C++, and yes, the destructor order is well-defined,
and yes, all standards conformant compilers will follow this practice.
In fact, this is often used eg to manage resources.

I agree that the original approach doesn't look incredibly useful
though.


Bj?rn


From grante at visi.com  Thu Mar 14 23:43:35 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:43:35 GMT
Subject: how to check how many bytes are available to read() ?
References: <2b57f654.0203142026.68ec3fc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna92v0d.8rs.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <2b57f654.0203142026.68ec3fc7 at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:

> I have a file object f.  I want to know if there are any bytes
> to read from it.

A worthy and not infrequent desire.

> I have tried using select.select([], [f], []),

That will return when f is writable.  In other words write(x)
will not block.  At least not for some values of x.

If you do select.select([f],[],[]), then it will return return
when f.read() will not block.  Note: calling read() on a
regular file never blocks, therefore select() returns
immediately for regular files.

> but I have found that select will return [],[f],[] even if
> there is nothing to read in f, so that when I call
> f.readline(), it blocks.

Call select.select([f],[],[])

> Is there a function or some way i can peer into f and see if
> it has any bytes for me?
>
> f is actually someprocess.fromchild, by the way.

If f is a pipe, then you can use select -- at least under Unix.
I don't know about Windows.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. Like I always
                                  at               say -- nothing can beat
                               visi.com            the BRATWURST here in
                                                   DUSSELDORF!!


From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Mon Mar 18 16:50:08 2002
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 21:50:08 GMT
Subject: Initialization of base classes
References: <52mc9u0ghanm3bg0ajt8aro58bqce6ki2s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a75neg$m7u$1@news.mathworks.com>

I believe it's the case that __init__ is just called on the object created.
So standard method-lookup rules apply.

sorry.antispam at address.net wrote:
> On pp 74 of Bealey's excellent book "Python Essential Reference, 2nd
> Ed" it is written:

> "When an instance is created [of a derived class], the __init__()
> methods of base classes are not invoked. Thus, it's up to a derived
> class to perform the proper initialization of its base classes, if
> necessary"

> Is this really true? If you have:

> class A:
>    def __init__(self):
>       print "Class A"

> class B:
>    def __init__(self):
>       print "Class B"

> class C(A):
>    pass

> class D(A, B):
>    pass

> Then:
> w = A() --> "Class A"
> x = B() --> "Class B"
> y = C() --> "Class A"
> z = D() --> "Class A"

> Hence, instantiating class C does in fact invoke the constructor of
> class A, but not of class B. i.e., only the constructor of the first
> base class is invoked. Is this a bug in the book, or a bug in Python
> 2.1?

> And if it's not a Python bug, what is the rationale for only calling
> the constructor of the first base class, and not the other base
> classes?

> ...Edmund.


From pajer at iname.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:45 2002
From: pajer at iname.com (Gary Pajer)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:05:45 GMT
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it> <slrna91io0.ha5.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <uit7zqdm9.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <tqek8.463765$eS3.35625936@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

> > >I recently bought "Programming Python" by O'Really,
> >
> > Oh. Really?
>
> http://bofhcam.org/co-larters/index.html

Incredible.  One can't invent something new anymore, even by accident.
I attended a lecture by Feynman once.  He said that some years ago he made a
new discovery in E&M theory.  He later found out that someone had beaten him
to it by about 25 years.  His advice from the experience: "If you ever think
you've discovered something new, think again."

BTW, my $0.02:  I like PP2E, and, oddly, I find "Python and XML" (also from
Oh'Really) to contain some lucid descriptions of Python at my level
(novice). Not a broadly based intro, however.




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 28 21:46:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 02:46:45 GMT
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com> <hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a80kil$rhc$1@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:09:39 -0500, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>"John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote ...
>> philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote in message
>news:<slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>...
>> > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
>wrote:
>> > >Jim Dennis wrote:
>> > >>         freq = {}
>> > >>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
>> > >>                         else:                           freq[word] =
>1
>>  >
>> > >Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
>> >
>> > IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works
>> > correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
>> >
>> > IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
>>
>> Python *could* be made like that with the explict dict() constructor
>> ... something like:
>>
>> freq = dict(default=0)
>> ...
>> freq[word] += 1
>
>This was a feature of the Icon language. But Icon had no explicit literal
>representation for dictionaries (or tables, as I think they were called) as
>far as I can remember, so it was easy to make the default value an argument
>to a constructor function. It's not obvious how you could indicate the
>default without calling a method.
>
empty_dict_with_default = {:default}
with_one_key_value_pair = {:default, key:value}

A little tweak in the grammar might do it?

Regards,
Bengt Richter
Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dreed at capital.edu  Tue Mar 12 18:17:42 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:17:42 -0500
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
In-Reply-To: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com> (skurland@juggler.net)
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200203122317.g2CNHgP21810@localhost.localdomain>

> From: "Scott Kurland" <skurland at juggler.net>
> 
> Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?
> 
> #Searching for perfect numbers
> 
> howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
> for number in range (1,howhigh):
>  factorsum = 0
>  halfnumber=number/2
>  for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
>   if number/checking == int (number/checking):
>    factorsum = factorsum + checking
>  if number == factorsum:
>   print number
> 
> 
> 
> Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.


Two problems I see:

number / checking does integer arithmetic. Try starting up the python
interpreter and type: 5 / 2

Use:
if number % checking == 0:
this determines if the remainder is zero.

Also, you need to go one past the half number since 2 is a factor for
even numbers so you'll want the other factor. Again, with the python
interpreter, type: range(1, 10)

Try this:

howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
for number in range (1,howhigh):
   factorsum = 0
   halfnumber= number / 2 + 1
   for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
      if number % checking == 0:
         factorsum = factorsum + checking
   if number == factorsum:
      print number

Also, see:

http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~novelway/MEW2/lesson1.html

Dave



From wilby31 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 14:54:16 2002
From: wilby31 at yahoo.com (wilby31)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:54:16 -0000
Subject: new to python...
Message-ID: <a7t818+bgce@eGroups.com>

Im running Linux and I would like to run a filename.py file..how do I
go about running this program?  through the command line ?  I have
version 1.5.2 and I do not have the control to upgrade it.  thanks 

brent




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 19:37:25 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:37:25 -0600
Subject: The Python Way
Message-ID: <15522.26053.182066.263337@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

I wrote that I should look at replacing code like this

    self.cache_lock.acquire()
    try:
        fiddle_some_cache...
    finally:
        self.cache_lock.release()

with code like this

    some_cache = self.some_cache_queue.get()
    fiddle_some_cache...
    self.some_cache_queue.put(some_cache)

I eventually realized I can avoid the try/finally however.  If something
happens within fiddle_some_cache... in the second code example I'd wind up
with an empty queue.  So, if I needed try/finally in the acquire/release
case, I will need it in the get/put case.  Silly me...

Skip




From brian at sweetapp.com  Fri Mar 15 04:03:51 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:03:51 -0800
Subject: XML-RPC Question
In-Reply-To: <cf0ad9fb.0203150028.20cff7d8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <005f01c1cc00$53588120$445d4540@Dell2>

Jesper Olsen wrote:
> Yes that works too.
> I think it would be useful if the register_instance, registered
> the name of the object as part of the method names, e.g.
> 
> server.register_instance(MyClass(), "myob")

You can create arbitrary hierarchies pretty easily using classes (not
tested):

class Container:
	myobj = MyClass()
 
server.register_instance(Container) 

> It would then be clear to the client, that it is calling methods
> on an object:
> 
>     server.myob.helloWorld()
>     server.myob.echo()
> 
> I this example it does not matter much, but usually objects have a
> state, whereas function calls give the impression of something
state-less.
> Of course the same can be achieved by registering these functions
> individually:
> 
>    server.register_function(myob.helloWorld, "myob.helloWorld")
>    server.register_function(myob.echo, "myob.echo")

I'm not sure that people have this sort of expectation. I certainly
don't.

Cheers,
Brian




From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 21 10:17:54 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:17:54 -0800
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list@python.org> <A2F124616A415A90.905029C2E4C51EB9.602FB306F71F6138@lp.airnews.net> <3C996234.9090506@verizon.net> <mailman.1016688814.7930.python-list@python.org> <852630CB444A0E88.1C47E73805633E2D.6D8C67A72D42A034@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <a7ctui$jo4uc$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Cameron Laird
> So, for example, I've heard that Python isn't as serious
> as Java because it's not possible to hire "Zope-certified
> Python Engineers".  Sun does that for Java, Zope doesn't
> for Python, therefore Python isn't as trustworthy as
> Java.
>

When the day arrives that demand for certification from paying
applicants outstrips supply -;), then I'm certain that many qualified
certifiers will step up to the plate.  The hard part will be determining
what certified means.  Perhaps there's a PEP in that.


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Mon Mar 11 09:25:09 2002
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:25:09 +0100
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
References: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de> <20020311140817.L25769@phd.pp.ru> <mailman.1015850417.6509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6iege$8hv$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Maybe this helps:
http://www.zope.org/Members/mcdonc/RelationalDatabaseWiki/GadFly
http://cvs.zope.org/Products/ZGadflyDA/gadfly/#dirlist

All the best,
Harald

"Rupert Kolb" <rupert.kolb at med.uni-tuebingen.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1015850417.6509.python-list at python.org...
> Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:57:37AM +0100, Rupert Kolb wrote:
> >
> >>for weeks, I'm trying to reach the home page of the Gadfly DB.
> >>   http://www.chordate.com/gadfly.html doesn't work.
> >>Is this my fault?
> >>
> >
> >    No, it is down for some time, and probably forever. The original
author
> > stopped working on it.
> >
>
> Then the next questions:
>
> Are the sources available somewhere?
> Is there a new home page for Gadfly?
> Is there anybody who will maintain such a page?
> As far as I can remember there is some software, which needs gadfly.
>
> --
> Rupert Kolb
>
>
>




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar  6 10:32:02 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:32:02 +0900
Subject: Flushing stdout with raw_input - BUG
References: <q0ph8.54$_Z4.217@news.hananet.net> <un0xl4w2a.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <Dsqh8.57$_Z4.284@news.hananet.net>

Michael Hudson scribbled with his keyboard:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:
> 
>> I will write
>> another bug report about the unresponsiveness to bug reports as well, as
>> there are a lot of bugs that aren't even addressed at sourceforge.
> 
> Oh, that will help, sure.

It is a bug. There needs to be a fix for it. Do you need more volunteers? 
How do we get involved? Where do we sign up? What needs to be done? Maybe 
there needs to be more coordination and less coding at the top.

I did a semi-thorough investigation on the matter, and there really isn't 
much information on how I make the move from being a python user to a 
developer. Apparently it's by invitation only. Do I just keep submitting 
bugs and patches and opinions and eventually someone will notice me, or do 
I have a place where I can stand up and say, "HEY! I WANT TO HELP! WHAT DO 
I DO?"

> 
> Please note that Python is a volunteer effort.  You have no right to
> expect bug reports to be attended to.
> 

I can expect what I want. I have no right to see my expectations fulfilled, 
unless I do the fulfilling.

I understand that it is a volunteer effort. I am constantly appreciative of 
the effort you and others are putting into it. 
(http://sf.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=154889)

However, we can't go around saying Python is substandard because it is a 
volunteer effort. We should be saying we are held to a higher standard 
because we are a volunteer effort. Unlike Java or C#, we actually have to 
perform, because we don't have a huge advertising fund and pushy 
salespeople.

>
> However, they are.  I know *I* scan through open bugs fairly
> regularly.  Martin von Loewis does the same.  I can only fix the bugs
> I have time to fix, and so fix the bugs that seem to me to be worth
> fixing.  I've spent multiple hours in just the past few days with my
> head stuck deep in the Python internals, and TBH posts like this do
> not make me think it was worth it.
> 

The way I was tutored was that getting a bug report was a *good* thing. 
Anybody who thinks there are no bugs or few bugs should be shot. A 
programmer should appreciate a well-written bug report because it helps 
improve the code and lets him spend more time coding and less time testing.

I tried to be strikingly clear, because this has been brought up before and 
it seemed to have been regarded as unimportant. I wanted to emphasize that 
at least in my opinion it is important, and shouldn't be shoveled off to 
the side.

And TBH, are you doing this for yourself or for us? If you are doing it for 
us lusers who are unappreciative and consistently complaining and calling 
features bugs, then I am surprised you are still around.

> 
> If you are interacting with a subprocess that is expecting to talk to
> a user, you should probably be using pseudo-tty's.
>

That is a very good answer that I didn't think of. I did a search on Google 
and came up with the expect module for python located at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/expectpy/ 

Still, not quite what I was looking for, but since C seems to do exactly 
what Python is doing, then maybe I need to help them at pyexpect and forget 
about making Python behave differently from C. That way, there won't be 
that nasty gotcha when they go and run a C program. I think I'll stop 
complaining about raw_input and start working with the expectpy group.

Jonathan




From cpbotha at i_triple_e.org  Wed Mar 20 10:57:26 2002
From: cpbotha at i_triple_e.org (Charl P. Botha)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:57:26 GMT
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com> <mailman.1016636107.1525.python-list@python.org> <24bh9u4lmkj47e1jufc1c26od21gd0eq50@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9hcja.m22.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>

In article <24bh9u4lmkj47e1jufc1c26od21gd0eq50 at 4ax.com>, 
Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
>>It seems to work here:
>>
>>[niemeyer at ibook niemeyer]$ echo 'a = 1' > mod.py
>>>>> import mod
>>>>> mod.a
>>1
>>
>>[niemeyer at ibook niemeyer]$ echo 'a = 2' > mod.py
>>>>> reload(mod)
>><module 'mod' from 'mod.py'>
>>>>> mod.a
>>2
> 
> This is a rather simple case. More comlex cases with classes don't
> behave so reliably.

Interesting.  So certain things in Python work reliably for "simple cases"
but less reliably for "complex cases".  How is the distinction made by the
interpreter?  This would be an interesting classifier... I will have to look
in the code. :)

In anycase, I have a rather large software platform that reloads modules
with classes all the time.  So, the platform itself keeps on running while I
hack away at a new module; with every change I reload the module and my
platform instantiates it AND I get to see the changes in action.  Test.
Modify.  Repeat.

Maybe the complex/simple case classifier in my version of Python is buggy? ;)

Regards,

-- 
charl p. botha http://cpbotha.net/ http://visualisation.tudelft.nl/


From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar 10 11:39:09 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 08:39:09 -0800
Subject: financial calculations
References: <MPG.16f5a2c7862e2392989681@news.pandora.be>
Message-ID: <a6g27d$as4$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <MPG.16f5a2c7862e2392989681 at news.pandora.be>,
tc  <tony.claeys at pandora.be> wrote:
>
>Is there a python module for financial calculations ? Using floats would 
>give me too much problems with rounding errors.

Not financial calculations per se, but your best bet until I finish my
BCD module is Tim Peters's FixedPoint.py.  Unfortunately, the old FTP
link appears to be broken, so I've put up a copy on my Starship pages:
http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/FixedPoint.py
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From quinn at upchuck.ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Mar 12 03:08:59 2002
From: quinn at upchuck.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 08:08:59 GMT
Subject: augmented arithmetic operations
References: <Zv8j8.6678$26.622125@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8rdsr.rnh.quinn@upchuck.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:32:57 GMT, Mike Carifio <carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com>
wrote:
>For example, suppose I introduced Point as a kind of number:
>
>class Point:
>    def Point(self, x, y):
>        self.x = x; self.y = y
>    def __add__(self, rhs):
>        return Point(self.x + rhs.x, self.y + rhs.y)
>    def __iadd__(self, rhs):
>        intermediate = self + rhs  # bad form?
>        self.x = intermediate.x; self.y = intermediate.y

Since you seem to know C++ <wink>, you could do it the usual C++-ly way and
implement __add__ in terms of __iadd__:

   def __add__(self, rhs):
       p = copy.copy(self)
       p += rhs
       return p
   def __iadd__(self, rhs):
       self.x += rhs.x
       self.y += rhs.y


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar  8 21:59:07 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 18:59:07 -0800
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <kuelivht8g.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <B8AEE297.4C02%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <7xvgc6fnus.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Fernando Pereira <pereira at cis.upenn.edu> writes:
> The irreducible fact is that Python needs extensive runtime type checks,
> Java doesn't. One could argue that agressive inlining of built-in operations
> and type checks followed by removal of redundant machine instructions might
> have the effect of removing most type checks, but that needs to be shown.

40 years of Lisp compiler implementations have shown pretty conclusively
that these problems are surmountable.


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 17:43:03 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:43:03 GMT
Subject: Breaking String into Values
References: <HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <X56p8.471517$pN4.33077802@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"robert garretson wright" <rgwright at ux.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
> I am working on reading in a data file format which is set up as a
series
> of lines that look like this:
>
> 3500035000010104A Foo 45
>
> I want to break up into a variables as follows:
> a = 35000, b = 35000, c = 10104, d = 'A', e = 'Foo', f = 45
>
> My current code (auto-generated from a data dictionary) looks
> something like this:
>
> temp = line[0:5]
> a = int(temp)

It would be slightly and to me easier to read without the 'temp' vars.

...

> Is there a better way to do this? The files have around 1000-8000
lines each
> so I would like it to be fast.

What times are you trying to improve on?  When I did comparable
projects, (on a 3+ year old PC) input and conversion only took a few
seconds, as I remember.

Terry J. Reedy





From narnett at mccmedia.com  Mon Mar 25 11:07:03 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:07:03 -0800
Subject: Web robot "freeze" solved, perhaps (was RE: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?)
In-Reply-To: <a7nec1$csv$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJGEONJMAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Aahz
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 7:06 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?

[snip]

> Ah.  You're probably getting stuck in urllib.  You need to use
> http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py

I don't think that was the problem (urlretrieve showed me that the file was
retrieved before the "freeze") but that's a function that I absolutely
wanted to add shortly, so a big thank-you.  Tim Bray, who wrote one of the
first Web robots ever, had recently emphasized the importance of "kind"
time-outs for robots on the robots mailing list, so this was very much on my
mind.

What appears to have finally solved this problem was a fix to a function I
was calling to parse each new document.

The function is below.  I had earlier assigned self.onePage to be the page
contents in the calling function, then decided to pass it to this function
instead, but didn't change newParser (which is no longer an appropriate
name, come to think of it) itself appropriately.

    def newParser(self,onePage):
        self.myParser.reset()
        self.onePage = string.replace(self.onePage,' \n',' ')
        self.onePage = string.replace(self.onePage,'\n',' ')
        self.myParser.feed(self.onePage)
        self.myParser.close()

An extremely quick fix was to add "self.onePage = onePage" and then, of
course, clean up the thing by getting rid of all of the self references for
onePage.

I suppose it's obvious that I was using self.onePage in the calling
function, or this wouldn't have worked at all.  I haven't quite sorted out
what was happening or why it was intermittently misbehaving.  But I have now
run a few hundred iterations with no problems.

I added timeoutsocket, but no timeouts have happened yet.  However, I'm
hitting a very robust site and my ISP is incredibly reliable.  Most of the
pages only take .2 seconds to be retrieved, rarely more than 1 second.

Whew.

Thanks, all!

Nick




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 14:05:42 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:05:42 -0800
Subject: vwait in Python?
References: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis> <mailman.1017331196.5311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA36985.D67F9D02@ccvcorp.com>


Ken Guest wrote:

> On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 11:37, Ken Guest wrote:
> > Anybody know if there's an equivalent to TCL's vwait keyword in Python?
>
> So is there no way, short of a 2 line while statement, to have code
> hang around until the value of some variable has been changed?
>
> I have tried using variations of the simple while statement, but they
> only result in the application hanging (going into an infinite loop
> no doubt).

You *could* make this work by using threads, but it's likely that there's a
more effective way of solving the real problem.  You could also require that
the variable in question be changed through some proxy object, and have that
proxy automatically execute some code (either hardcoded in or registered with
the proxy at runtime) when the variable changes.  (This could be done either
by using an explicit setter method, or by use of proxy.__setattr__(). )

(By the way, being impatient for a response after only 4 hours, on Usenet, is
kind of silly.  Netnews can be slow to propagate, many people only read at
particular times of day, etc, etc... I'd recommend waiting at least a day or
three before you start presuming that nobody will answer.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From quinn at cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Mar  9 14:56:56 2002
From: quinn at cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 19:56:56 GMT
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8kq87.u8o.quinn@cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:41:31 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
>Rationale
>
>    One of the most common uses of for-loops in Python is to iterate
>    over an interval of integers.

Not even close, for me.  I usually iterate over sequences (which are
not of consecutive integers).

>                                   Python provides functions range()
>    and xrange() to generate lists and iterators for such intervals,
>    which work best for the most frequent case: half-open intervals
>    increasing from zero.  However, the range() syntax is more awkward
>    for open or closed intervals, and lacks symmetry when reversing
>    the order of iteration.

That's because what you really want in those cases is a different function:

def hrange(x, y):
    if x < y:
        while x != y:
            yield x
            x += 1
    else:
        while x != y:
            yield x
            x -= 1
    yield y

>                             In addition, the call to an unfamiliar
>    function makes it difficult for newcomers to Python to understand
>    code that uses range() or xrange().

Anyone to whom the basic builtins are unfamiliar doesn't know python and can't
be expected to understand it very well <wink>.

>Specification
>
>    We propose to extend the syntax of a for statement, currently

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the rate of syntax extensions slow down
a bit.


So I can't really say I'm in favor of this one, sorry :(


From edream at tds.net  Mon Mar  4 19:23:37 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:23:37 GMT
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net>

Hi All,

The main page at python.org is getting too long, IMO.  At some
point all the links on the main page become more clutter than helpful. 
I have lots of experience organizing things into outlines ;-)  It would
be best, I think, to create some "second level" pages referenced from
python.org, something like this:

python.org
  a page about releases of python itself
    a download page
  a page about major tools, idle, pychecker, pyunit,
    with links to the commercial products page,
  a page about related products & tools,
    MacPython, Jython, Pippy, Tkinter, etc.
  a links page, containing subpages or subsections for
    commercial products
  an events page
  the commercial products page.
  etc.

The main rules of thumbs in any reorganization:

  Everything significant should be 1 or 2 clicks away from python.org.
  Everything significant should have its own place (maybe off-site).
  Every on-site page should mostly fit on a screen.

In short: place for everything, and everything in its place.

If more was "offloaded" to second-level pages we would get two big
additional benefits:

1. There can be more second level pages so the material can be organized
more effectively.

2. Each page, covering less, can do it better.  It can be more "relaxed"
because more will fit on the page.  This applies to top-level pages as
well as secondary pages.

I find this error all over the web: we try to cram too much onto a
single page, especially reference pages, with the result that one is
constantly scrolling to find what one wants.  This wastes huge amounts
of time and is hard on the eyes.  The solution is always the same,
to reorganize the top-level page so that it can be seen at a glance, and
add at least one extra level of organization.

Examples:  http://python.org/doc/current/ fits on a page,
C:\Python22\Doc\lib\lib.html does not.  C:\Python22\Doc\lib\lib.html
would be so much easier to use if it contained only the top-level
entries, that is, intro, front matter, entries 1-20, entries A,B,C and
index.  All pages can be more informative, and more relaxed.

Another example, the otherwise superb intro to Tkinter,
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
would be vastly more useful if it fit on a single page.  Once again,
first and second level pages could be both more useful and more relaxed.

The Tk man pages themselves are well organized except for the very
bottom pages, e.g.,
http://tcl.activestate.com/man/tcl8.4/TkCmd/menubutton.htm
which cram everything about a particular class in one humongous mess. 
Perhaps this is done so that is can be printed as reference.  If that is
a goal, one can keep the bottom level page and add a mid-level page
consisting of links into the bottom level page.  The mid-level pages
would contain real information(!), viz., the "big picture" of what is
contained in bottom-level pages.

As I write this, I realize that Leo's own "Complete Table of Contents",
http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/leo_TOC.html, is too long and could
profitably be reorganized using these rules of thumb. OTOH, Leo's
on-screen reference, LeoDocs.leo, is organized this way (and the
user can reorganize it at will.)
  
Browsing through Section 4 of the FAQ I came across 4.49 re pyunit,
which I had also missed.  Section 4 seems to be a catch-all, and too
long.  Taking these rules of thumb further, it might make sense to split
section 4 into several sections: programming tools, like pychecker,
pyunit and idle, etc., questions about basic constructs, and questions
about typical errors.  It would be easier to find things.

Anyway, this is how I would organize things. YMMV.  If people are
interested, I would be happy to work on a reorganization of python.org. 
And yes, this posting violates these principles, as it hardly fits on
any monitor :-)

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Mar 19 02:21:23 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:21:23 +0100
Subject: Want to convert images into HSL format
References: <a74der$1va$1@rex.ip-plus.net> <uzol8.25972$n4.5086912@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <a76ot7$kaj$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

The Sandard Lib - the undiscovered land... ;-). Works fine, thanks a lot for
the hint!

Best regards
Franz GEIGER


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:uzol8.25972$n4.5086912 at newsc.telia.net...
> "F. GEIGER" wrote:
>
> > PIL can supply me with RGB data of an image. Does anybody know, how I
can
> > PIL have to transform this into the HSL (aka HSI) model?
> >
> > I'm new to image processing, but if I understand the chapter Introducint
> > PIL -> Concepts -> Mode right, HSL is not mentioned there. Well, I have
to
> > admit, the only two color modes of the mentioned ones I understand are
RGB
> > and CMYK.
>
> PIL doesn't support HLS images.
>
> if you only need HLS values for individual pixels, you can use
> the colorsys module in Python's standard library:
>
> >>> import Image
> >>> im = Image.open("lenna.im")
> >>> im.mode
> 'RGB'
> >>> im.getpixel((0, 0))
> (226, 161, 119)
> >>> import colorsys
> >>> colorsys.rgb_to_hls(*[x/255.0 for x in im.getpixel((0, 0))])
> (0.065420560747663545, 0.67647058823529416, 0.64848484848484833)
>
> see the library reference for details.
>
> </F>
>
>




From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Mar 30 00:33:13 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:33:13 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: decision tables Re: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (new
 proposal):
In-Reply-To: <004d01c1d797$401f2120$0101010a@local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203300827170.30208-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Chris Gonnerman wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cliff Wells" <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net>
>>
>> Now which is cleaner?   I think the perceived need for this type of
>> construct is a holdover from thinking in other programming languages
>versus
>> thinking in Python.

if-elif-else is a complete functional substitute for any kind
of switch/case. I can't see why this topic is still discussed.
Python has dictionaries, so many simple things could be
made by them. More complex decision making pieces of code
could be elegantly done with if's.

*

However, I'd liked to see a good paradigm for expressing
decision tables like this one:

F1 F2 F3 R
0  0  *  do1
0  1  0  do2
0  1  1  do3
1  *  *  do4

in Python. (With lazy evaluation, of course).

Any ideas?

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, March 30, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Answers: $1 * Correct answers: $5 * Dumb looks: Free! *" _/




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 15 13:49:09 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:49:09 -0600
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
In-Reply-To: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com>
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15506.16933.119089.728350@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

>>>>> "Joe" == Joe Grossberg <josephgrossberg at hotmail.com> writes:

    Joe> Is there any effective difference between the two?

Nope.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Mar  8 14:52:25 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:52:25 -0800
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
In-Reply-To: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>
References: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>
Message-ID: <20020308195224.GD4569@isis.gerrietts.net>

-Wart?

As long as we're just offering opinions, mine falls somewhere between
Wart? and Not a wart. I'll lean towards Wart? because I want to keep
an open mind.

The current syntax addresses my needs. It's pretty clear. The
behaviour of the range() construct is well-defined and universal --
it's not specific to the "for" construct.

In short, I would really need to be convinced that an alternative
would be better rather than just convenient. Without registering
opinions on either of the PEPs (which I haven't researched), I would
hope that when Guido decides on these PEPs, he is thinking in terms of
necessity.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
-rw-rw-rw-:         permissions of the beast



From paul at boddie.net  Fri Mar  8 10:27:35 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 07:27:35 -0800
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0203071057.57204175@posting.google.com> <uofhz8ijm.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203080727.30419fd8@posting.google.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<uofhz8ijm.fsf at python.net>...
> 
> This isn't true.  You need to know how to use "cvs" and "diff", and
> *some* bugs require a "Python internals skill level" of at least 11
> out of 10, but most don't and many probably don't require more that 3
> or 4 out of ten.  Besides, what better way of acquiring the skill to
> fix deep bugs than to practice fixing shallow ones?

My point exactly. I increased my "skill level" by 1 point (alright,
0.5 points, then) when I went looking inside the import mechanism,
although I then took the easy way out and passed the problem over to
some willing Python gurus instead of fixing it myself. (Actually, I
couldn't have fixed it definitively myself - there was a "policy"
thing that needed addressing.)

Paul


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  1 10:33:30 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:33:30 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex@netWindows.org> <Xns91C39C93F933Edenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.23> <uvgcgwq1a.fsf@python.net> <a5o4fb$cbu$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <u8z9cwb99.fsf@python.net>

aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:

> In article <uvgcgwq1a.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> >Dennis Roark <denro at NSPAMearthlink.net> writes:
> >>
> >> The Python book appears substantially based on the templates of
> >> their previous books.
> >
> >Certainly the first draft of chapter 2 that I reviewed[0] looked
> >suspiciously like the corresponding chapter from Java:HTP.  That went
> >back with a lot of red ink on it...
> 
> All right, let me ask: are there any reviewers who think that PyHTP looks
> like a book written by Python programmers rather than a book written by
> Java programmers?

Well, the published version looks less like this than the initial
version, at least.  What worried me more was the fact that it seems to
cover 101 topics -- I have a feeling it might give a reader enough
knowledge to be really dangerous in some areas, but no more.

> >[0] My, there were a lot of reviewers weren't there?
> 
> Yup.  A lot of *opinionated* reviewers, at that.  In all fairness, it's
> pretty clear that Deitel paid a fair amount of attention to our
> comments, but thought it was more important to stick with the style of
> their existing books.

Well, some of the things that struck me as odd might have some thought
behind them -- the repitition being one of the more obvious.

> And, heck, they *did* pay well for my time.

Yeah, though I'll be happier when I actually get paid... (this is my
first encounter with the IRS).

And I now have the 2.2 source on my home box (which is currently
sundered from the internet).  Must find a book to review as 2.3 is
being prepared <wink>.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The meaning of "brunch" is as yet undefined.
                                             -- Simon Booth, ucam.chat


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 19 20:20:36 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:20:36 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <lyd6y0m6o6.fsf@bock.chem.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEPNOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[jochen at bock.chem.unc.edu]
> Ok, looking at SourceForge and google this seems to be fixed in cvs
> HEAD.  Would it be possible to put the same patch into the cvs
> python-2.2 branch, please? [1]
>
> Greetings,
> Jochen
>
> Footnotes:
> [1]  If it is in there, it doesn't work for me with current python cvs
>      branch release22-maint.  I still have to manually add -lieee.
>      (RedHat-7.0 with current updates.)

I don't know what "current" meant to you at the time you wrote this.
Michael Hudson did backport the patch into 2.2.1c1, which was released
yesterday.  So please try 2.2.1c1, and if you still have a problem, file a
bug report about it on SourceForge.  2.2.1 final is expected in about a
week.




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Mar 26 12:57:32 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:57:32 -0500
Subject: Python Books Galore
References: <a37970$irg$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <cja-2603021134010001@192.168.1.42>
Message-ID: <CE2o8.16571$Ii4.2716@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Christopher Abraham" <cja at dds.nl> wrote in message
news:cja-2603021134010001 at 192.168.1.42...
> Raymond:
>
> It most certainly is a very fine sign.  I am also interested, now that
> there are so many and not so few, in finding a great trinity of Python
> Books for use at work.  One for introductory study, one for advanced
> technique, and one as a reference book.  Of course, this could be as many
> as five-seven books, but three is a pretty appropriate number this week of
> any.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> In article <a37970$irg$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>, "Raymond Hettinger"
> <othello at javanet.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > I went back yesterday and found a full row (3 1/2 to 4 feet) filled with
> > Python books.
> [snip]
> > This has got to be a good sign.

Speaking as a recently-published Python author, I'd be happier if the books
disappear from the shelves as fast as they appear.

regards
 Steve






From m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl  Mon Mar  4 06:53:49 2002
From: m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl (marcin andrzejewski)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:53:49 +0100
Subject: problem with locale
References: <a5vlnp$mmk$1@news.tpi.pl> <just-60231F.12461704032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <a5vn7l$6me$1@news.tpi.pl>

U?ytkownik "Just van Rossum" <just at xs4all.nl> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:just-60231F.12461704032002 at news1.xs4all.nl...
> In article <a5vlnp$mmk$1 at news.tpi.pl>,
>  "marcin andrzejewski" <m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl> wrote:

> I think your script is called locale.py: Python will find it before the
> "real" locale.py is found when importing.

that's right,
thanks

--
marcin andrzejewski
m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl
keson at post.pl




From brueckd at tbye.com  Sat Mar  2 14:11:27 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:11:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rotor in Jython?
In-Reply-To: <7xr8n329oc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203021054030.19675-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 1 Mar 2002, Paul Rubin wrote:

> <brueckd at tbye.com> writes:
> > Put another way: sorting by key length, AES beats rotors hands down.
> > Sorting by computational cost, rotors always win because you can just make
> > the keys longer (without having to reimplement your crypto).
>
> Longer keys are only relevant if breaking the cipher requires searching
> for the key.

Heheh... that's essentially what cryptanalysis is - finding the key since
in most cases the algorithm itself is known. If you're referring to
non-brute force key searches, then key length is relevent there as well
(unless the algorithm itself is flawed). For example, in differential
cryptanalysis of DES you're basically deducing bits of the key until you
have so few remaining that a brute force attack becomes feasible. Longer
key sizes (and a higher number of rounds) have an enormous impact on
whether or not you'll ultimately be successful.

-Dave




From bernie at 3captus.com  Tue Mar  5 02:38:29 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:38:29 -0700
Subject: Brewster's Factor - was :Trouble running programs
References: <200203041148.g24BmttB007592@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <3C8475F4.46E94132@3captus.com>

Laura Creighton wrote:

> > Bernard Yue's sig is:
> >
> > There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
> > the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
> > facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
> > fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
> > Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
> > Factor; that's engineering.
> >
> > So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
> > praise of intelligence.
> >                 -- Bertrand Russell
>
> I wanted to know what Brewster's Factor was.  I found out that the first
> part of the quote -- the bit that ends with Engineering should be
> attributed to Robert A. Heinlein (from The Number of the Beast).

Number of the Beast!!!  Read the book but don't remember the quote <sigh>!!
Thanks for the correction.

> But the only Brewster Factors I can find have to do with polarised light,
> or English Chrisitian Revivalist Victorian political parties, neither
> of which I suspect is what I am looking for.  Any ideas?

Laura, I believe you found what you have looking for.  I think in the quote
Brewster Factor is refering to Brewster Law.  Which states that
non-polarized light will be reflected as polarized light (a special case in
reflection) and reflected and refracted light will be in right angle.  I see
this as an analogy to Engineering, in which a system only works under
certain conditions (Brewster Angle) and failed to function otherwise
(Murphy's Law).  Robert A. Heinlein should be able to another the question,
but we are nearly 14 years too late.

>
> Laura Creighton

I love this newsgroup.


Bernie
--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                                -- Robert A. Heinlein




From romany at actimize.com  Wed Mar  6 12:21:26 2002
From: romany at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:21:26 +0200
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <7647A9F4B298E74DB6793865DA67285004ACF1@exchange.adrembi.com>

What is about step ?

for( int I = 0; I < 10; I+=2)
	do smth





-----Original Message-----
From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:42 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops

Abstract

    This PEP proposes to simplify iteration over intervals of
    integers, by extending the range of expressions allowed after a
    "for" keyword to allow three-way comparisons such as

        for lower <= var < upper:

    in place of the current

        for item in list:

    syntax.  The resulting loop or list iteration will loop over all
    values of var that make the comparison true, starting from the
    left endpoint of the given interval.


Rationale

    One of the most common uses of for-loops in Python is to iterate
    over an interval of integers.  Python provides functions range()
    and xrange() to generate lists and iterators for such intervals,
    which work best for the most frequent case: half-open intervals
    increasing from zero.  However, the range() syntax is more awkward
    for open or closed intervals, and lacks symmetry when reversing
    the order of iteration.  In addition, the call to an unfamiliar
    function makes it difficult for newcomers to Python to understand
    code that uses range() or xrange().

    The perceived lack of a natural, intuitive integer iteration
    syntax has led to heated debate on python-list, and spawned at
    least four PEPs before this one.  PEP 204 [1] (rejected) proposed
    to re-use Python's slice syntax for integer ranges, leading to a
    terser syntax but not solving the readability problem of
    multi-argument range().  PEP 212 [2] (deferred) proposed several
    syntaxes for directly converting a list to a sequence of integer
    indices, in place of the current idiom

        range(len(list))

    for such conversion, and PEP 281 [3] proposes to simplify the same
    idiom by allowing it to be written as

        range(list).

    PEP 276 [4] proposes to allow automatic conversion of integers to
    iterators, simplifying the most common half-open case but not
    addressing the complexities of other types of interval.
    Additional alternatives have been discussed on python-list.

    The solution described here is to allow a three-way comparison
    after a "for" keyword, both in the context of a for-loop and of a
    list comprehension:

        for lower <= var < upper:

    This would cause iteration over an interval of consecutive
    integers, beginning at the left bound in the comparison and ending
    at the right bound.  The exact comparison operations used would
    determine whether the interval is open or closed at either end and
    whether the integers are considered in ascending or descending
    order.

    This syntax closely matches standard mathematical notation, so is
    likely to be more familiar to Python novices than the current
    range() syntax.  Open and closed interval endpoints are equally
    easy to express, and the reversal of an integer interval can be
    formed simply by swapping the two endpoints and reversing the
    comparisons.  In addition, the semantics of such a loop would
    closely resemble one way of interpreting the existing Python
    for-loops:

        for item in list

    iterates over exactly those values of item that cause the
    expression

        item in list

    to be true.  Similarly, the new format

        for lower <= var < upper:

    would iterate over exactly those integer values of var that cause
    the expression

        lower <= var < upper

    to be true.


Specification

    We propose to extend the syntax of a for statement, currently

        for_stmt: "for" target_list "in" expression_list ":" suite
                  ["else" ":" suite]

    as described below:

        for_stmt: "for" for_test ":" suite ["else" ":" suite]
        for_test: target_list "in" expression_list |
                  or_expr less_comp or_expr less_comp or_expr |
                  or_expr greater_comp or_expr greater_comp or_expr
        less_comp: "<" | "<="
        greater_comp: ">" | ">="

    Similarly, we propose to extend the syntax of list comprehensions,
    currently

        list_for: "for" expression_list "in" testlist [list_iter]

    by replacing it with:

        list_for: "for" for_test [list_iter]

    In all cases the expression formed by for_test would be subject to
    the same precedence rules as comparisons in expressions.  The two
    comp_operators in a for_test must be required to be both of
    similar types, unlike chained comparisons in expressions which do
    not have such a restriction.

    We refer to the two or_expr's occurring on the left and right
    sides of the for-loop syntax as the bounds of the loop, and the
    middle or_expr as the variable of the loop.  When a for-loop using
    the new syntax is executed, the expressions for both bounds will
    be evaluated, and an iterator object created that iterates through
    all integers between the two bounds according to the comparison
    operations used.  The iterator will begin with an integer equal or
    near to the left bound, and then step through the remaining
    integers with a step size of +1 or -1 if the comparison operation
    is in the set described by less_comp or greater_comp respectively.
    The execution will then proceed as if the expression had been

        for variable in iterator

    where "variable" refers to the variable of the loop and "iterator"
    refers to the iterator created for the given integer interval.

    The values taken by the loop variable in an integer for-loop may
    be either plain integers or long integers, according to the
    magnitude of the bounds.  Both bounds of an integer for-loop must
    evaluate to a real numeric type (integer, long, or float).  Any
    other value will cause the for-loop statement to raise a TypeError
    exception.


Issues

    The following issues were raised in discussion of this and related
    proposals on the Python list.

    - Should the right bound be evaluated once, or every time through
      the loop?  Clearly, it only makes sense to evaluate the left
      bound once.  For reasons of consistency and efficiency, we have
      chosen the same convention for the right bound.

    - Although the new syntax considerably simplifies integer
      for-loops, list comprehensions using the new syntax are not as
      simple.  We feel that this is appropriate since for-loops are
      more frequent than comprehensions.

    - The proposal does not allow access to integer iterator objects
      such as would be created by xrange.  True, but we see this as a
      shortcoming in the general list-comprehension syntax, beyond the
      scope of this proposal.  In addition, xrange() will still be
      available.

    - The proposal does not allow increments other than 1 and -1.
      More general arithmetic progressions would need to be created by
      range() or xrange(), or by a list comprehension syntax such as

        [2*x for 0 <= x <= 100]

    - The position of the loop variable in the middle of a three-way
      comparison is not as apparent as the variable in the present

        for item in list

      syntax, leading to a possible loss of readability.  We feel that
      this loss is outweighed by the increase in readability from a
      natural integer iteration syntax.

    - To some extent, this PEP addresses the same issues as PEP 276
      [4].  We feel that the two PEPs are not in conflict since PEP
      276 is primarily concerned with half-open ranges starting in 0
      (the easy case of range()) while this PEP is primarily concerned
      with simplifying all other cases.  However, if this PEP is
      approved, its new simpler syntax for integer loops could to some
      extent reduce the motivation for PEP 276.

    - It is not clear whether it makes sense to allow floating point
      bounds for an integer loop: if a float represents an inexact
      value, how can it be used to determine an exact sequence of
      integers?  On the other hand, disallowing float bounds would
      make it difficult to use floor() and ceiling() in integer
      for-loops, as it is difficult to use them now with range().  We
      have erred on the side of flexibility, but this may lead to some
      implementation difficulties in determining the smallest and
      largest integer values that would cause a given comparison to be
      true.

    - Should types other than int, long, and float be allowed as
      bounds?  Another choice would be to convert all bounds to
      integers by int(), and allow as bounds anything that can be so
      converted instead of just floats.  However, this would change
      the semantics: 0.3 <= x is not the same as int(0.3) <= x, and it
      would be confusing for a loop with 0.3 as lower bound to start
      at zero.  Also, in general int(f) can be very far from f.


Implementation

    An implementation is not available at this time.  Implementation
    is not expected to pose any great difficulties: the new syntax
    could, if necessary, be recognized by parsing a general expression
    after each "for" keyword and testing whether the top level
    operation of the expression is "in" or a three-way comparison.
    The Python compiler would convert any instance of the new syntax
    into a loop over the items in a special iterator object.


References

    [1] PEP 204, Range Literals
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0204.html

    [2] PEP 212, Loop Counter Iteration
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0212.html

    [3] PEP 281, Loop Counter Iteration with range and xrange
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0281.html

    [4] PEP 276, Simple Iterator for ints
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0276.html


Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From emile at fenx.com  Sun Mar 31 12:28:56 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:28:56 GMT
Subject: newbie question on lists, getting an error on basic addition
References: <uggeauc292padb9gk6ghcmghv82g888i3l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <sHHp8.143522$ZR2.60617@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

John Warney
> >>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
> >>> counter = 0
> >>> answer = 0
> >>> alist
[snip]
> >>> while counter < 6:
> ... answer = answer + alist[counter]
> ... counter = counter + 1
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 2, in ?
> IndexError: list index out of range
> >>> answer
> 10
>
> why am i getting this error when it works???
> Rob

You get the error because you're trying to loop six times through a list
of four elements.  What you've displayed is the accumulated total while
the loop worked.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 08:56:47 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:56:47 +0000
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8k54v.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:50:04 GMT, Edward K. Ream <edream at tds.net> wrote:
>PEP 282 is more complex and less flexible than it could be.  Instead,
>Python's standard logging system could well use dynamic tracing.  

I recently wrote a logging system as part of my Herbrip application.

I'm not sure that the python standard library needs a built-in 
logging system. Sure, it'll be useful to some people if done well 
and if it integrates in with logging in Unix-like OSes. But it is 
hardly rocket science to write one from scratch -- my logging.py is 
200 lines long (including comments and blank lines) and wasn't 
mentally taxing to write. Furthermore it does logging in a way 
specific to Herbrip; a generalised solution would need to be 
extensively modified to do the functionality I weant, so it 
might not be worth learning its API to use it.

I would suggest that the proponent of this system writes it, gets it 
used in several packages, makes changes and improvments based on 
comments received, then proposes adding it to the standard library.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From edream at tds.net  Mon Mar  4 21:03:19 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 02:03:19 GMT
Subject: Editors for Python
References: <d906b2c1.0202250818.57dcfcc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C842765.537604FD@tds.net>

Moray Taylor wrote:

> I am desperatly seeking a good python editor, so far JEdit is the best
> I have found, but since it is written in Java, I find it painfully
> slow, and PyBrowse, although good, a little flaky.

You might try leo.py: Open Software, written entirely in Python. 
Requires Python 2.x and Tk 8.x.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 18 18:22:03 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:22:03 +1100
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A21D@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> >  In other words it was another case of: r"use raw strings for 
> >  filename literals under Win Python!"
> 
> Possibly another case of: """
> 
> In general, if you absolutely *must* hard-code filename literals in
> Python scripts, don't use "\\name" (for example) or even r"\name", use
> "/name"; the Windows API happily supports it.
> 
> """

Or best of all, use os.path.normath('/name') to be absolutely certain ...

Tim Delaney



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 10 18:37:37 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:37:37 -0500
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
In-Reply-To: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEDOODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Erik de Castro Lopo]
> Just recently I prototyped a relatively complex algorithm in Python
> before converting it to C. During this conversion I noticed that
> the modulo operator returns different results in C and Python if
> the numerator is negative. For positive values they produce the same
> result.

Python defines the result of i%j to have the same sign as j; what C requires
depends on which year's C standard you're looking at (it was left up to
implementers' discretion before the 1999 standard); the C implementations I
use return a result with i's sign, and I usually curse them for that.

Note that this is related to what "i/j" returns.  Both languages preserve

    i == (i/j)*j + i%j

in non-pathological cases (j != 0, etc).




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Mar  4 12:04:26 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 18:04:26 +0100
Subject: Memory leak when importing?
References: <yv2it8cwcod.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <j43czg9sdh.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> writes:

> Any ideas? Rough guesses?

I'd invoke gc.getobjects() from time to time, to see whether the list
gets longer. If that fails, you may want to build the pydebug version,
to get the total list of objects; you can then see what the additional
objects are. That should give a clue as to where they come from.

Regards,
Martin



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Mar  7 11:20:15 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:15 -0700
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192215153@admin56.narex.com>

> From: John Machin [mailto:sjmachin at lexicon.net] 
> 
> "Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote in message 
> news:<mailman.1015439892.7298.python-list at python.org>...
> > > From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu]
> > > Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
> > 
> > Thanks for writing the PEP.
> > 
> > I see this as a general proposal for a range syntax, and I disagree 
> > with it because:
> > 
[snip]
> > 
> >   - I would like range objects to be first class, ie. I would want
> >     to be able to pass ranges to functions, return them from 
> >     functions, and do all the other things one can do with first
> >     class objects.
> 
> I don't understand this. range and xrange *are* first-class 
> objects. You can do all of those things.

Yes, but this new syntax is proposing itself to be *the* way of creating
a range to iterate over. If it can only be used in one context in the
language I'm left to wonder if it's not just extra "noise" for everyone
to have to learn...

-- bjorn



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Mar 26 20:44:13 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:44:13 +1200
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> 
> Or is Guido getting writing software and writing novels confused?

I'd say the skills required to write clear, readable
software and clear, readable novels are not entirely
disjoint!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Mar 15 19:40:06 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:40:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <mailman.1016161825.20741.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna95536.h7j.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <mailman.1016161825.20741.python-list at python.org>,
Christian Tanzer wrote:
>
[snip]
>> It happens to me too, mostly when I'm using a sliding window
>> type algorithm, that is, I need to look at two adjacent members
>> of the list. You can't do this easily by iterating through the list;
>> unrolling the first entry and the last entry are a pain.
>
>I use a function pairwise to do such things:
>
>    for l, r in pairwise(mylist) :
>        <whatever>
>
>Probably not as fast as index manipulation, but IMHO much easier to
>read/write/understand.

As an apropos, I need sliding windows a bit too, and have been using
the following solution in numarray:

  from numarray import *

  def windows(data, size):
      shape = (size, len(data)-size+1)
      return data[sum(indices(shape))]

It can be used like this:

  >>> print windows(arange(10), 3)
  [[0 1 2]
   [1 2 3]
   [2 3 4]
   [3 4 5]
   [4 5 6]
   [5 6 7]
   [6 7 8]
   [7 8 9]]

It took me a while to figure out exactly how to do it but figuring out
how it works shouldn't be that hard ;)

Of course these are overlapping windows (with step 1) -- a
non-overlapping version is left as an exercise for the reader <wink>.

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From ws at mystrobl.de  Sun Mar 17 08:26:14 2002
From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:26:14 +0100
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <mailman.1016216529.29034.python-list@python.org> <m3vgbxs7e2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <j9699ucaj1rec9v1abg0geskbovu5jdtj3@4ax.com>

16 Mar 2002 01:06:45 +0100, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis):

>"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:
>
>> Alas, the PC console uses a different character set called CP437,
>> which is not Latin-1 compatible.  In CP437, the pound sign
>> is 156 and the yen sign is 157.
>
>This isn't really true. The console on Windows (I believe both Win9x,
>and NTx) use what MS calls the "OEM" charset. Which code page that is
>depends on the Windows installation. In the US English installation,
>it is indeed CP437. In the European installations, it is CP852 most of
>the time.
 
... or CP850 aka DOS Latin 1.  CP852 is Latin 2

>
>>         [in Win2K console]
>>         >>> ord(u'?')
>>         156    # uhhh, no
>>         >>> ord(u'\N{POUND SIGN}')
>>         163    # correct answer
>> 
>>       I think it's fair to say this is a deficiency in current
>>       versions of Python.  I believe it will be fixed
>
>This is rather unlikely, I doubt the interactive interpreter will ever
>be able to properly identify the encoding of the console window. 

What's wrong with GetConsoleOutputCP, besides the restrictions
documented in "Q99795 SetConsoleOutputCP Only Effective with Unicode
Fonts"? This API function exits since Windows NT 3.1  was released -
i.e. it's almost a year older than Python version 1.0.0.

C:\e\consolecp>type conoutputcp.c
#include <windows.h>
main()
{ printf("Code page %d",GetConsoleOutputCP());}
C:\e\consolecp>

C:\e\consolecp>cl /nologo conoutputcp.c
conoutputcp.c

C:\e\consolecp>conoutputcp.exe
Code page 850
C:\e\consolecp>chcp 1252
Aktive Codepage: 1252.

C:\e\consolecp>conoutputcp.exe
Code page 1252
C:\e\consolecp>python
Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> ord(u'?')
163
>>>

-- 
Thank you for observing all safety precautions


From matt at swordfish.havenrock.com  Fri Mar 15 23:34:04 2002
From: matt at swordfish.havenrock.com (matt at swordfish.havenrock.com)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 21:34:04 -0700
Subject: Gadfly mirrors?
Message-ID: <slrna95io5.1qs.matt@swordfish.havenrock.com>

Hi, folks--

Does anyone know of an alternate download site for Gadfly? I have been
unable to reach www.chordate.com all evening.

-- 
Matt Gushee
Englewood, Colorado, USA
mgushee at havenrock.com
http://www.havenrock.com/


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 08:39:28 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:39:28 +0000
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
>C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
>that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
>Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?

I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python, 
e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems, 
run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 19 04:14:40 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:14:40 GMT
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
References: <mailman.1016487407.28014.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uadt46hl7.fsf@python.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.org> writes:

> This being a bugfix release, there are no exciting new features -- we just
> fixed a lot of bugs.  For a moderately complete list, please see:
> 
>     http://http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=80208

That's a bit embarrassing.  Oh well.

here's-hoping-that's-the-worst-problem-of-this-release-ly
M.

-- 
  C is not clean -- the language has _many_ gotchas and traps, and
  although its semantics are _simple_ in some sense, it is not any
  cleaner than the assembly-language design it is based on.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 13 03:40:04 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 09:40:04 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) writes:

> Martin v. Loewis wrote in message:
> > Certainly true; there is little interest in Python.NET in the Python
> > community (just as there is little interest in other branches, such as
> > Stackless, Psyco, and, to some degree, Jython).
> 
> I'm somewhat bewildered by this statement. You are surely
> underestimating the interest of the community in the above projects.

Maybe, but then, the community is not showing its interest very much.

I don't count articles in a newsgroup saying "this is a good thing",
"just continue with your efforts", "we definitely need this" as
interest.  Instead, people contributing code, reporting bugs, or just
using the system in their applications show interest. This is the case
for Jython, but I don't think Armin or Christian got much actual code
contributions. Likewise, when Mark would not deliver a win32all build
for a few weeks, people would complain - but nobody would actually
step forward and publish a build herself.

Regards,
Martin


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Mar  6 18:10:29 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:10:29 -0800
Subject: hash(unicode(string)) == hash(string) sometimes (was Re: Why KeyError ???)
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com> <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <7xvgcabcti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203061510.53d5a91b@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in message news:<7xvgcabcti.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> "Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> writes:
> > > KeyError: &#353;&#273;&#269;&#263;&#382;
> > > >>> a == b
> > > 1
> > 
> > Hmm.  I don't get the same identity check results as you do:
> > >>> a = '\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7'
> > >>> b = unicode(a,'cp1250')
> > >>> a is b
> > 0
> 
> Try == rather than 'is'.  The docs are a little bit imprecise about
> what's supposed to happen here, but 2.2.7 "Mapping types" says about
> numeric keys:
> 
>     A dictionary's keys are almost arbitrary values. The only types of
>     values not acceptable as keys are values containing lists or
>     dictionaries or other mutable types that are compared by value rather
>     than by object identity. Numeric types used for keys obey the normal
>     rules for numeric comparison: if two numbers compare equal (e.g. 1 and
>     1.0) then they can be used interchangeably to index the same
>     dictionary entry.
> 
> That makes it surprising if two unicode strings that compare as ==
> don't index the same dictionary item.

We don't have two unicode strings here. a is NOT a unicode string. It
is a string string. The comparison coerces the string string to
unicode string (using the default encoding), so they compare equal.
However dictionary keying uses a hash function as well as comparison.
As currently implemented, hash(a) != hash(b) sometimes. The hashes are
equal when the Unicode characters are merely zero-extended 8-bit
characters, as will happen when the default encoding is ascii or
Latin-1. However the hashes will not be the same when the encoding is
more complicated, as in the OP's cp1250 example.

If the "fix" for this would involve making hash(string) always do
hash(unicode(string)) then I sure hope that (borrowing timbot
phraseology) somebody optimises the snot out of it.

BTW, I'm not so sure of the utility of hash(1) == hash(1.0) --- why on
earth would anyone want to use floats as keys in a dictionary, anyway?
Eveything one reads on floating-point fulminates against equality
testing. Seems like extra code and extra run-time for little benefit.


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 17:05:24 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:05:24 -0600
Subject: Problem with cgitb
In-Reply-To: <1015532454.1203.4.camel@temp>
References: <1015532454.1203.4.camel@temp>
Message-ID: <15495.58404.946778.996505@beluga.mojam.com>

    Ken> While trying to work out an appropriate fix for my problems with
    Ken> sgmllib I decided to try Python2.2, at which point I could start
    Ken> using cgitb.  Unfortunately cgitb has a problem when some of the
    Ken> data it outputs includes HTML, since it does not escape the
    Ken> appropriate bits and so the browser gets very upset.

Can you post a bit of the fractured HTML it generates?  If you think it's
truly a bug and not just an issue that cgitb can't recover because of
earlier generated HTML fragments, you should file a bug report on
SourceForge.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar 27 09:41:56 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:41:56 -0800
Subject: Primes....
References: <mailman.1017232814.7797.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x663iqdhn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"FREDRIK HULDTGREN" <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> writes:
> I should have been more specific, yes I am talking about cryptology, and
> sadly enough I am runnign win2k, the unix stuff goes out the window. As
> for how large of numbers I am looking for, I'd say about 512bit numbers
> should do it(perhaps larger, depens on how slow it becomes). Got any
> URLs that explain Fermat/Miller-Rabin tests?

By the way, use gmpy if you can.  It's about 10x faster than Python's
built-in arithmetic for long modexps.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 09:51:13 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 09:51:13 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <mailman.1017557628.22081.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a877p1$sns$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017557628.22081.python-list at python.org>,
Nick Arnett <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
>
>Would sgmllib, htmllib and urllib count as two or three?  I mention the
>first two partly because they could benefit from some teaching; I had to
>stare at examples for a while before I grasped what was going on.  All three
>replaced quite a lot of my old Perl.  Does Tkinter/Pmw count as an
>extension?

Pmw does, but that's the only one.  Sorry for not making clear that I
was specifically referring to 3rd-party extensions.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From jhorneman at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 08:08:40 2002
From: jhorneman at pobox.com (Jurie Horneman)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 05:08:40 -0800
Subject: Trouble importing / using a custom text codec
References: <9ac02e81.0202280152.5bb1bf25@posting.google.com> <j4r8n5fxfx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9ac02e81.0203010508.4ebccd75@posting.google.com>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message news:<j4r8n5fxfx.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> I recommend a different strategy. Aim for allowing "cp932" as an
> encoding name. To achieve this, put the following (or something like
> this) into MBCS_codecs/__init__.py

Thanks. I had to actually solve the problem so I took my code out of
the codecs and just called it directly, but at some point in the
future I will try this approach.

I'd still like to know why my approach didn't work, but oh well...

> If you want this to happen at startup time of Python, just add a
> MBCS_codecs.pth file in site-packages, which reads

What is a .pth file?

Jurie Horneman


From morton at dennisinter.com  Fri Mar  8 18:38:51 2002
From: morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 15:38:51 -0800
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
Message-ID: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com>

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 'c' in 'the quick brown fox'
1
>>> 'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand

is this by design?

is there any reason why '<string> in <string>' shouldnt work?


From fdrake at acm.org  Fri Mar 29 16:24:15 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:24:15 -0500
Subject: "Don't Kill Opera" documentation release
Message-ID: <15524.56191.459903.271423@grendel.zope.com>

I've just made an "emergency" release of the 2.2 documentation (based
on the release22-maint branch in CVS.  If you use Opera 6.01, you can
now feel a little safer on python.org.  ;-)


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fdrake at acm.org>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar  2 11:59:52 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 17:59:52 +0100
Subject: Possible to fake object type?
References: <3c80e76b@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5A538FB6E0cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3c80fb6d@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91C5B7ABFE1F5cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote 
in news:3c80fb6d at nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de:

> Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote:
>> Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> 
wrote 
>> in news:3c80e76b at nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de: 
>>> So: Is it possible to fake the type of a class or
>>> is it possible to magically override the method call "bouncing" 
to
>>> the base class ? 
>> 
>> you can allways call the methods of on e of the supperclasses by
>> using: 
>> 
>> Baseclass.method(self, args, ...)
>> 
>> it's the same you do in __init__ to initilaize base classes:
>> 
>> class Dockable(gtk.HandleBox):
>>        def __init__(self): gtk.HandleBox.__init__(self)
>> 
>>        def dosomething(self, arg):
>>                print "calling dosomething...", result =
>>                gtk.HandleBox.dosomething(self, arg) print "result 
=
>>                %r" % result return result 
> 
> Yeah, sure, but I'd have to do this for every single
> function - which is not quite the elegant solution
> I aimed to come up with by using the getattr magic.

why not something like that?:

def __getattr__(self, name):
    	try:
    	    	return self.__dict__[name]
    	except NameError:
    	    	return getattr(gtk.HandleBox, name)

something similar can be done for setattr too of course.

you could also google for the Proxy Design Pattern which can be 
implemented in such a way.

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 31 13:26:13 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:26:13 -0500
Subject: string copying
In-Reply-To: <gEEp8.77869$Ou.56166@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEGCOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bengt Richter]
> Does python run out of memory gracefully?

[Tim]
> Very.  You should get a clean MemoryError exception if you try.
>
> >>> 'x' * 2**30
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> MemoryError

[Steve Holden]
> My laptop upgrade clearly takes my platform beyond the timbot conceptual
> limit: it took about three minutes to start printing (I'm not thinking of
> letting it finish) with no error message in sight.

Then you clearly have enough VM for a gigabyte string:  a MemoryError would
be inappropriate on your box in this case.  I suggest upgrading to Windows,
which dies quickly much more often <wink>.




From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar  7 08:07:34 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:07:34 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org> <6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <a67p1s$c15u7$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Bernhard Herzog
> The pep doesn't say anything about the other contexts in which
iterators
> are used (except for the sequence unpacking above).
>
> Do we really want all of these new behaviors?
>

No.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 12 15:49:48 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 15:49:48 -0500
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <slrna8sind.nfu.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <a6lplc$lrg$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrna8sind.nfu.akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org>,
A.M. Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote:
>
>There does seem to be an increasing trend to vaporware announcements
>about language unification, though.  Witness Parrot, Mono, and
>SmallScript [1], all of which talk about having support for many
>languages including Python, but none of which have actually tried to
>build that support or work with the Python community to build it.

That seems a tad harsh WRT Parrot.  Early on they checked with
python-dev and got little in the way of interest, but they've been
keeping us informed irregularly.  They did explicitly ask for help in
making sure that Parot would work with Python, and IIRC someone (Michael
Hudson?) tried doing a bit of work with Parrot/Python as a proof of
concept.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar  7 20:41:54 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 17:41:54 -0800
Subject: Bug in the standard module random ?
References: <3C8791B1.6BBC1981@Spam.Please>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203071741.8d1b507@posting.google.com>

Weet Vanniks <No at Spam.Please> wrote in message news:<3C8791B1.6BBC1981 at Spam.Please>...
> Hi,
> 
> The  gammavariate function of the standard module is documented as
> taking two parameters, the first one alpha is required to be > -1 and
> the second beta is required to be >0.
> However, examining the implementation, it seems that the requirement for
> alpha is to be >0.
> 

Yes, this is a doc problem. Some definitions of the gamma distribution
define it (a) such that alpha > -1 and has the exponential
distribution as a special case when alpha == 0; others take the tack
(b) that the lower bound is zero and the exponential distribution is
when alpha == 1.

Example of (b):
http://www.nag.com/numeric/cl/manual/pdf/G05/g05ffc_cl05.pdf

Here we have the doc taking option (a) and the implementation taking
option (b).

So you probably want to call it with alpha set to 1.2, not 0.2, and
then it won't blow up.

However the implementation is still stuffed, as my earlier posting
said.

N.B. the following is VERY relevant:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012181.html


From herrn at gmx.net  Sat Mar  9 16:15:19 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:15:19 +0100
Subject: how to set the background color of a window with curses
In-Reply-To: <20020309164204.GB1466@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <20020309125336.GA2236@lurkabove.darkstar> <20020309164204.GB1466@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <20020309211519.GA3210@lurkabove.darkstar>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 05:42:04PM +0100, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Le 09/03/02 ? 13:53, Marco Herrn ?crivit:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am trying to set a backround color for a window and did it with
> > 
> > stdscr.bkgd(' ', curses.COLOR_BLUE)
> > 
> > But that doesn't work. It seems to do nothing.
> > What am I doing wrong?
> 
> You're confusing colors with attributes. I recently stumbled across that
> one, too :)

Hmm, that may be true.... ;)

> This will do the trick:
> 
> # define color 1 as black on blue
> curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_BLACK, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
> stdscr.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))

No, that doesn't work for me.
The whole screen remains black. I get no error message and any text that
is displayed with color_pair(1) is correctly displayed in black on blue.

Am I missing something else?

> Btw. there's a curses howto on http://py-howto.sf.net/ in case you
> didn't know.

Yes, I did read it. It is a good starting point, but unfortunately
doesn't go over my problem ;)


Bye
Marco
-- 
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar  4 02:52:34 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 08:52:34 +0100
Subject: How can I use a foreign language char in Swing
References: <mailman.1015219926.3597.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3y9h8zs59.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:

> > I installed J2SDK 1.4.0 several days ago. I need to get some strings from
> > database which stored in GB2312 encode method, and display it
> > using Swing. I
> > got correct result in Windows2000(Use China as default region and
> > GB2312 as
> > encode method.) While I??run it on Windows(English Edition), all I can see
> > is ?????.
> >
> > What should I do? I think ResourceBoundle can't help me. Is there
> > any other
> > method can help me?
[...]
>   1.  Missing Fonts.  Seems unlikely.  But if this is the problem,
>       it's easy to fix.  :)

Actually, this is quite likely: MS normally choses "?" as the
replacement character, and you need to explicitly request CJK fonts
when installing the English edition of W2k. If "Windows" really means
"W9x" in this context, things are probably even worse.

Regards,
Martin


From xscottgjunk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 16:29:45 2002
From: xscottgjunk at yahoo.com (Scott Gilbert)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 13:29:45 -0800
Subject: pickle, cPickle, zlib, and the future
Message-ID: <79b2b0bb.0203011329.79469c5b@posting.google.com>

I'm serializing Python objects to one of three formats: Ascii, Binary,
or Compressed (a, b, or c).  I would like to be able to load them
using just one function that correctly guesses how they were pickled. 
This is similar to what I'm currently doing:

  def dump_a(o): return cPickle.dumps(o)

  def dump_b(o): return cPickle.dumps(o, 1)

  def dump_c(o): return zlib.compress(cPickle.dumps(o, 1))

  def load(s):
    if s[0] == 'x':
      return cPickle.loads(zlib.decompress(s))
    else:
      return cPickle.loads(s)

This only works if future enhancements to pickle/cPickle don't step on
the first characted being 'x', and only if zlib always returns a
string with the first characted 'x'.

Looking in cPickle.c and pickle.py, I see that capital 'X' is used for
type BINUNICODE, but no mention of lowercase 'x'.  I can't find
anything in zlib, but empirically it seems to be consistant.

I figure this was either planned or lucky.  If it was planned, a quick
comment in the source would relax my fears that my code won't break in
the next version of Python.  If it was lucky, it might be nice to jump
on the opportunity.

So can I rely on the first character 'x' being reserved for zlib, and
cPickle/pickle strings never starting with 'x'?

Cheers,
    -Scott Gilbert



(BTW: In cases somebody asks why I don't just prefix my dump strings
saying where they came from: The dumps can be rather large (maybe 10's
of megabytes), and I really don't want to have to create a multiple
megabyte substring from the original.)


From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar  2 19:00:23 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 01:00:23 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015025883.4457.python-list@python.org> <a5plko$f7n$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5ptsb$99s16$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <a5r495$5bo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5rbl1$9i37i$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a5rp2n$bcl$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
> "Carel Fellinger"
...
>> I noted the smiley, but just in case someone might think you have a
>> point: what would be the benefit of that?

> Syntactic consistency with slice notation:
>     5 :: [:5] as-3 :: [-3:]

Bummers, forgot about that.

> or maybe it should be:   ;-)
>     5 :: [:5] like -3 :: [:-3]

alternatives, make things look even worse:)


>> The tutorial could introduce it like:
>>
>>    In python integers are objects too. And objects know how to do
>>    things, e.g. integer objects know how to add and just recently
>>    they learned how to count.  Positive integers count from zero
>>    upto but not including the number itself, whereas negative
>>    integers count from -1 downto and including the number itself.

> My my... I think you've converted... ;-)

No no, I only think I understand it now:]  I'm still not sure I like
it, but on different grounds this time.


> Couldn't we overload the '-' to reverse by itself?  ;-)
>         >>> print " ".join([x for x in -s])

:)

> My point, repeated a few times here <wink>, is that while I have no
... nice fussy pointing rambling snipped...
> those who don't like iter(int), don't use it, or at least, .  ;-) use it
> as often as you use '>>'.

> Bonus-points-for-each-point-found-here-ly y'rs,

I just pick my points then:)

low learning curve
high `rememberability'  (I don't want to look things up)
One prefered way of doing it
easy on the eyes        (it should be extremely raedable)

-- 
groetjes, carel


From amir.hadar at israel.sun.com  Wed Mar 20 08:16:58 2002
From: amir.hadar at israel.sun.com (Amir Hadar)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 05:16:58 -0800
Subject: nested_scopes with execfile
References: <10ecacee.0203190845.4fa4e35d@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016565572.12126.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10ecacee.0203200516.32cb4d57@posting.google.com>

Thanks for repalying.

I suppose you are right but this is not the correct behaviore with
nested_scopes on. As I anderstend execfile should behave as if I cut
and past the file to that position my self (as appose to import).
Therefore it should be enclosed with the env of the function "f()" in
the Test1.py file. The resone why this is importent to me is because
the Test2.py will be written by other ppl (Applicators) and I don't
want them to get confused. I want to keep it simple. Thats way I don't
want them to pass the above functions ("f1") to other functions ("f2")
in order to be able to invock them. The only solution that I see is to
execfile("Test2.py",globals(),globals()) but then I risk with name
collision between the modules. Another solusion is to fix the Python
Sources which seems to be not a simple task.

--Amir

Mohammed Lazreg <mxl at fluent.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016565572.12126.python-list at python.org>...
> Here is what I believe is happening:
> 
> when the interpreter enters the code block of f2 and finds f1 name, it
> tries to resolve it using the nearest enclosing scope. So if you execute
> Test2.py alone it will work because the enclosing scope is Test2.py
> itself which does define f1 , but when you try to load Test2.py from
> Test1.py the nearest enclosing scope of f2 scope is Test1.py which does
> not define f1, hence the error....
> 
> If you change your Test2.py to this, it will works in both cases:
> 
> -----------------
> def f1():
>     print "OK it works"
> def f2(arg):
>     arg()
> 
> f2(f1)
> ----------------
> 
> $ ../Python-2.2/python Test2.py
> OK it works
> $ ../Python-2.2/python Test1.py
> OK it works
> 
> 
> Mohamed
> 
> Amir Hadar wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> >
> > I've encountered a problem when executing a file within a function:
> >
> > #----- Test1.py ------------------
> > from __future__ import nested_scopes
> >
> > def f():
> >     execfile("Test2.py")
> >
> > f()
> > # EOF Test1.py -------------------
> >
> > #--------Test2.py ----------------
> > def f1():
> >     print "OK it works"
> > def f2():
> >     f1()
> >
> > f2()
> > #EOF Test2.py --------------------
> >
> > When executing the Test1.py the following error is displayed:
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Test1.py", line 6, in ?
> >     f()
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Test1.py", line 4, in f
> >     execfile("Test2.py");
> >   File "Test2.py", line 8, in ?
> >     f2()
> >   File "Test2.py", line 6, in f2
> >     f1()
> > NameError: global name 'f1' is not defined
> >
> > The reson that I need this is because I want to make a "Load" funtion
> > that will execute the given file (e.g. Load("Yada.py")) and then will
> > run a function in that file (e.g. def Init():).
> >
> > In the example I gave the second file ("Test2.py") is loaded to the
> > local environment of the function f() in the first file (Test1.py).
> > Therefore the functions f1 and f2 are in that env. Now, When f2 calls
> > f1 it should resolve its variables in the enclosing environment which
> > is the env of f (Test1.py) but it doen't.
> >
> > Help Me.
> >          Amir.
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> > --
> > This message has been 'sanitized'.  This means that potentially
> > dangerous content has been rewritten or removed.  The following
> > log describes which actions were taken.
> >
> > [ score: 10 ]
> > 00189   Split long word(s) in header.
> >
> > Anomy 0.0.0 : sanitizer.pl
> > $Id: sanitizer.pl,v 1.35 2001/02/01 00:10:46 bre Exp $


From sketerpot at chase3000.com  Mon Mar  4 18:34:49 2002
From: sketerpot at chase3000.com (Peter Scott)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 15:34:49 -0800
Subject: How do you print?
Message-ID: <659f82ff.0203041534.34ad2f91@posting.google.com>

How can you print to a printer in Python? I know that you can do
platform-dependant things like using lpr (on UN*Xlike systems) or
"wordpad -p myfile" on windows, but that doesn't seem to be the Python
Way.

I just need to print--for now--plain text. Can anyone help me?

-Peter


From mwh at python.net  Sun Mar  3 12:04:24 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:04:24 GMT
Subject: Why isn't pychecker mentioned prominently?
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <3C811C18.1020208@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <u664dvau0.fsf@python.net>

Pete Shinners <shredwheat at attbi.com> writes:

> Edward K. Ream wrote:
> > I just found out about pychecker (http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/) and
> > I am wondering why it isn't mentioned prominently all over the Python
> > web site: the tutorial, the links on the left and side of the home page,
> > topics guides, general reference etc.  I found out about it from reading
> > one of Guido's recent presentations in which he mentions it as one of
> > his favorite Python tools.  So why is pychecker such a secret?

I think partly because it's fairly new.

> i heartily agree. i now try to use pychecker on absolutely everything
> i do. i really wish it came as part of the standard distribution. it
> could easily be enabled on the commandline with some sort of -wall.
> 
> heck, python recently added the full "warning" framework. it seems
> like an ideal place to tie that all in. then users can control if the
> pychecker warnings were silenced, printed, or treated as exceptions.

I think pychecker integration is a goal of 2.3.  IIRC, one problem is
that pychecker currently works by analysing bytecode, which is totally
unportable to jython.  It would be nicer if it used the compiler
package to work off the syntax tree, but noone's gotten round to
amending it yet.  Patches welcome, I suspect.

now-where's-that-cloning-machine-ly y'rs
m.

-- 
  There are 'infinite' number of developed artifacts and one cannot
  develop appreciation for them all.  It would be all right to not
  understand something, but it would be imbecilic to put judgements
  on things one don't understand.               -- Xah, comp.lang.lisp


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 21 10:16:51 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:16:51 -0800
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
References: <2OVMEJA7kKm8EweI@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <u7ko62kn6.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a7ctsk$kg9s1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Michael Hudson" 
> No.  I think there's a bug on sf about this.
> 
> It would be a bit of a pest to implement, I think, but I may be
> missing something.
> 

If it's a bug now and you implement a bit of a pest, is it better?

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Wed Mar  6 13:14:29 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:14:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <x63czd963u.fsf@notus.mii.dynalabs.de>
Message-ID: <1015438469.628881@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Michael Piotrowski (mxp at dynalabs.de) wrote:
: When the ANSI C compiler is installed, cc always calls this compiler,
: but without -Aa or -Ae it operates in K&R mode on 10.20.  To ensure
: that -Ae is always used, you can ... say
:
:    CC='cc -Ae' ./configure

With this, "make" does indeed create an executable.  But "make test" fails
both times on test_threads, dying at the end with:

    test_thread
    *** Termination signal 14

    Stop.

Oddly enough, signal 14 (ALRM) is ignored the first time "test_thead" is
listed.


Greg


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar  5 02:48:50 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 07:48:50 GMT
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu> <7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <eppstein-A9DCEE.19590304032002@news.service.uci.edu> <a61sgu$b3o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrna88u34.1mi.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Bengt Richter wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:59:03 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> 
>>In article <7xwuwrofhk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
>> Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Usually the term "natural numbers" don't include zero.
>>> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NaturalNumber.html
>>
>>I think "usually" is an exaggeration.  For instance, a better authority 
>>than Weisstein, Ebbinghaus et al's _Numbers_ (Springer Graduate Texts in 
>>Mathematics 123, 1991, p. 14) disagrees.
> 
> [...]
> FWIW again, Wordnet agrees also:
> [...]

Just adding to the noise:

gerhard at lilith:~$ dict "natural number"
2 definitions found

>From WordNet (r) 1.7 [wn]:

  natural number
       n : the number 1 and any other number obtained by adding 1 to it
           repeatedly

>From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (09 FEB 02) [foldoc]:

  natural number

     <mathematics> An {integer} greater than or equal to zero.  A
     natural number is an {isomorphism class} of a finite set.

     (1995-03-25)

At Uni, my two maths profs disagreed, too.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From amoustafa at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 23:31:35 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 04:31:35 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 
>>1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
>>2. Will Python dominate?
>>3. Who does support Python?
>>
> 
> Having read the other responses, you may see that your questions
> are a little simplistic.
> 
> I think if you told us what your purpose is in asking the questions,
> the answers would be more useful and direct.  _Why_ do you want
> to know?


I'm interested in knowing which skills will(are) being looked for.

> 
> -Peter

Ahmed



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Mar  9 10:56:44 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 07:56:44 -0800
Subject: Turn string into function call
References: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com> <E58i8.17062$N7.3653694@ruti.visi.com> <a6crpv$f6d$1@panix2.panix.com> <slrna8k8pv.1d5.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <a6dbbs$3c3$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrna8k8pv.1d5.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>,
Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>
>I think it would also be good to mention the eval() method, and
>the locals() method (and the problems with both).  I started to
>write up a FAQ yesterday but didn't get very far...

You can add that to the new FAQ entry at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.103.htp
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From fdrake at acm.org  Mon Mar 18 13:33:30 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:33:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020318183330.4F9B618ED52@grendel.zope.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/maint-docs/

Documentation for 2.2.1 release candidate 1.



From mcherm at destiny.com  Tue Mar 26 11:03:42 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:03:42 -0500
Subject: question on slices
Message-ID: <3CA09BDE.9020907@destiny.com>

> This makes sense and cleared it up.
> Thanx
> 
> Rob

Happy to help!
-- Michael Chermside




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Mar 21 16:07:23 2002
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:07:23 +0000
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Laura Creighton wrote:

> > ( Or maybe this begs for a Slashdot like system to
> > distribute the review, grading and selection of projects. )
[...]
> You want something more like the scientific reviewing of a technical
> paper than slashdot's 'all you need to vote is a pulse'.  Otherwise

This will not happen, as I'm sure you realise.  :)  Who would do it??

> in your selection committee).  The best way to do this is to provide
> a certain amount of meta-data with your assessment -- so we can
> find out not only that Steven Majewski thinks that XXX is cool, but
> also that Steven Majewski has a reputation around here, and most
> people think that Steven Majewski's opinion of something is valuable.
[...]
> I think that this sort of metadata belongs in the sort of
> cataloging system we should have to implement PEP 262, as well.
> Of course, I am biased -- AB Strakt is building something to do
> this, because we think that its a huge world problem that needs
> fixing.

There seem to be two ways to search for documents in a useful way, both of
which are useful.  One is to have lots of carefully and expensively
maintained metadata.  The other is to self-consistently rank the documents
by looking at the links between them, as does Google (one of the wonders
of the modern world, IMO).

I think Google has demonstrated that ranking is better done using the
self-consistent approach (though perhaps a little bit of metadata added to
this approach would work even better? -- for example, Google has no
conception of author AFAIK).

In general, and for a Python archive in particular, I guess there are two
problems: which metadata, and which software.  So, what's wrong with the
web + Google (not saying there isn't anything wrong, just interested in
how you would improve on it)?


[OT: A question I've asked many times and got no answer to is 'why has
nobody done self-consistent ranking for academic papers'?  I fear the
answer is simply that most of the data is owned by a small number of
companies who, as a result, have no real incentive to advance the state of
the art.  Still, maybe somebody out there is trying to do it...]


John



From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Tue Mar 19 20:42:45 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (A.Newby)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 01:42:45 GMT
Subject: Q: Sound production with python?
Message-ID: <Xns91D77C5869670AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>

Being a beginner fiddle player, as well as a beginner python programmer, I 
want to write a little prog that trains the sense of pitch.

How envisage it working is thus...

It plays a simple 4 note melody, then repeats the melody with one of the 
notes (selected randomly) slightly off pitch ... say by 20% or 10% or 5%. 
The user then has to detect which note was off.

What modules and commands should I use to generate this sounds? What's the 
best way to go about it?

-- 
cdewin at dingoblue.net.au


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 11:50:33 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 17:50:33 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
	<m3ofh6s2ux.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <m3g02i9ezq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:

> > Interestingly enough, the exception message says "__nonzero__ should
> > return an int" but really means "__nonzero__ must return an int".
> 
> You've been staring at standards too much, haven't you?  The
> difference between MUST and SHOULD isn't as clear-cut as most
> standards people use them.

Given Andrew's remark, it really should be "__nonzero__ shall return
an in int" :-)

Regards,
Martin




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar  3 19:20:17 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:20:17 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015022104.17945.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C82BDC0.C6A65F5F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> > "for something" loops over all values of the variable that make
> > "something"  true.
> 
> But that kind of definition isn't comprehensive enough because, for
> example, it says nothing about the order of the variables as processed by
> the for-loop.

Obviously it doesn't serve as a complete *definition* of
the semantics, but the complete definition is at least
consistent with that view, for both "for i in x" and
"for x < i < y".

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 17:36:00 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 22:36:00 GMT
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <20020313201539.2995aad0.andreas@mtg.co.at> <mailman.1016044409.14775.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6ok8g$idp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:30:47 +0300, Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:

>On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 08:15:39PM +0100, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
>> And what about:
>> db.query("""SELECT   foo, bar
>>             FROM     %(table)s
>>             WHERE    rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)d
>>             AND      name = '%(name)s'""" % locals())
>> 
>> pure standard Python :)
>
>   This will fail if name = "O'Hara". Or name = 'Tutti"""Frutti'.
>
Ok, then how about:
---
 >>> table = 'theTable'
 >>> rsrc_id = 1234567
 >>> class QEsc:
 ...     def __init__(self,s): self.sesc = "\\'".join('\\"'.join(s.split('"')).split("'"))
 ...     def __str__(self): return self.sesc
 ...
 >>> for badname in ["O'Hara", 'Tutti"""Frutti']:
 ...     name = QEsc(badname)
 ...     print """SELECT   foo, bar
 ...               FROM     %(table)s
 ...               WHERE    rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)d
 ...               AND      name = '%(name)s'""" % locals()
 ...
 SELECT   foo, bar
               FROM     theTable
               WHERE    rsrc_id = 1234567
               AND      name = 'O\'Hara'
 SELECT   foo, bar
               FROM     theTable
               WHERE    rsrc_id = 1234567
               AND      name = 'Tutti\"\"\"Frutti'
 >>>
---

"pure standard Python :)"

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From danieln at stud.cs.uit.no  Wed Mar 13 07:53:40 2002
From: danieln at stud.cs.uit.no (Daniel Nygård)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:53:40 +0100
Subject: MySQL Library or Interface?
References: <dIHj8.24208$nw3.3259904@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>
Message-ID: <a6ni45$1tr$1@news.uit.no>

"Stephen Cox" <stephen at stephencox.org> wrote in message
news:dIHj8.24208$nw3.3259904 at typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net...
> Is there a MySQL library or some kind of framewrok available for Python?

download this module:
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-python.html

Daniel Nyg?rd




From spencer at efn.org  Mon Mar  4 15:11:19 2002
From: spencer at efn.org (Spencer Ernest Doidge)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:11:19 -0800
Subject: Windows GUI - which way?
In-Reply-To: <3C83D003.411FEE3F@ccvcorp.com>
References: <a5k8t9$hrp$1@news.efn.org> <3C7EC855.5844B19F@engcorp.com> <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203021308260.14311-100000@garcia.efn.org> <3C83D003.411FEE3F@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203041208050.11237-100000@garcia.efn.org>

Thank you, Jeff. 
It happens that I want to do all this with scripts that are all under my
control, so there is a lot of good news here in your answer.
One further question: Should the two processes communicate with each other
via mmap?


Spencer Doidge
www.spencerdoidge.com

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jeff Shannon wrote:

> 
> 
> Spencer Ernest Doidge wrote:
> 
> > I want to maintain and use a library of Python scripts. I want to invoke
> > ...<snip>

Jeff wrote:
> 
> The answers to your question depend on whether you intend to design the library
> scripts specifically for this purpose, or if you're intending to use
> "off-the-shelf" scripts from elsewhere.  If you're able to modify the scripts to
> ...<snip>



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar 14 11:34:40 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:34:40 +0100
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <mailman.1016042063.7531.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6qjeq$fvcf8$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Thanks Christopher for your clear and intelligent response. I could only add
that it is always possible to use a dictionary with an ordered range of
integers as keys (or even as values). In some cases, it should probably make
sense.

Ironically, I could ask "why not add indices in the dictionary type, it is
sometimes usefull" ?

Let's keep things simple and understandable :
- lists are ordered sets,
- dictionnaries are "keyed" sets.

And if somebody needs something richer, just combine or inherit from those
types (btw many many thanks to the BDFL and his team for Python 2.2, for the
little that I know it, I really appreciate it).

B.

"Christopher A. Craig" <com-nospam at ccraig.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016042063.7531.python-list at python.org...
Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> writes:

> For starters, range (and xrange) is a perfectly sensible, reasonable and
> useful built-in. But the biggest use I make of it is in iterating through
> a list, e.g. as in
>
> for index in range(len(mylist)):
>     <whatever>
>
> and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
> sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
> myself doing this quite often.

I don't understand how range is a reasonable and useful built-in if
this use is not.

If you have a list [2, 3, 5, 7, 11] and you want to iterate through it
you don't need range:

for item in list:
  <work on items>

If, on the other hand, you want to iterate though the indicies of said
list rather than the items themselves you need to come up with some
way to generate a zero based list of integers up to one less than the
size of the list (i.e. a list of indicies).  When you create this list
you aren't doubling information that the list already has.  A list
does not contain a list of indicies into itself.  The list knows its
elements, in order, and how many elements it has.  From this you can
generate a list of indicies, but there are no 'keys' stored in a list
object like there are in a dictionary.

To go from the information that is stored in the list (an ordered list
of elements, and the size of said list) to the information you need to
iterate through indicies (an ordered sequence of indicies valid for the
given list) you need to take the length of the list (N), and create a
new list of N integers from 0 to N-1.  'range(len(mylist))' says
precisely that.  I don't see how this is the least bit kludgey.

.keys() and .items() methods on lists seem odd to me.  That is
inforamtion that the list does not contain.  Sure it can easily be
generated given information the list does contain, but why can't the
programmer generate it himself from the same information?

--
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
Is Peal Better Than Python?
No, no.  Quicker, easier, more seductive.





From kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com  Thu Mar  7 02:59:21 2002
From: kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com (William Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:59:21 GMT
Subject: NotePad Lite
Message-ID: <a676ca$58$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Does anyone use the NotePad series for writing Python code, if so have they 
built a python library that I can have.


---
William Kennedy
remove the .nospam from my email address


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Fri Mar  8 10:38:01 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:38:01 +0100
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
In-Reply-To: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020308153801.GD2591@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 08/03/02 ? 07:21, N Becker ?crivit:
> Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
> a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).
> 
> I wonder if there is anything new.  It looks to me that the 
> best answer is to use lambda.
> 
> example:
> 
> def f():
>   return lambda: os.chmod(""/root/.rhosts", 0644)
> 
> def g():
>   f()
 
Just out of interest: what's that good for?

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 10.4 ?C      Wind: 3.1 m/s



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 19:41:08 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:41:08 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <E0Op8.184985$2q2.15655569@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Stefan Schwarzer" <s.schwarzer at ndh.net> wrote in message
news:3CA751EF.10F25F2D at ndh.net...
> There are, as pointed out, too much cases where bool/int
interactions
> lead to surprises because the behaviour of the bool type does not
live
> up to its abstract concept that it should have. This is confusing;
...

This is precisely why I now think that the proposed formalization of
Python truth value system should not be called 'bool'.  Too many
people expect it to be like it "should' be, rather that how it was
designed.  Python truth values, like, for instance, Python lists, were
designed on a pragmatic basis without necessarily being constrained by
other similar models.

Terry J. Reedy





From angie4325 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  5 20:53:26 2002
From: angie4325 at hotmail.com (angie4325 at hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:53:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how you been?
Message-ID: <200203060153.RAA14181@deteconline.com>

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From gimbo at ftech.net  Thu Mar 14 08:57:37 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:57:37 +0000
Subject: SF vs. Lynx (was Re: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <a6q9lj$ce7$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org> <uvgbzqto6.fsf@python.net> <a6q9lj$ce7$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020314135737.GC1527@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 08:47:31AM -0500, Aahz wrote:

> OTOH, I still can't submit my stupid bug report AFAICT.  Is there anyone
> who uses Lynx to access SF?

No, but have you tried "links"?  It's a command-line browser like
lynx, but somewhat more featureful.  Apologies if this is old news.

http://links.sf.net/           (sf.net?  oh, the irony...)

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Mar  2 20:37:26 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 03:37:26 +0200
Subject: Possible to fake object type?
References: <3c80e76b@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5A538FB6E0cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3c80fb6d@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5B7ABFE1F5cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3c812217@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5D8B5BFC09cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3c818c66@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote:
>> This is basically the same as I have now. But the thing is:
>> __getattr__ only gets called when the attribute _doesn't_ exist,
> 
> you're right - i thought this has changed in py 2.2 but i never used 
> it that way.
> 
> maybe you could replace your classes __dict__ with an empty one so 
> that __getattr__ get called?

Aaah... this is it! Well, not exactly, but it gave me the idea to override
"by-hand" the (few) methods, which the baseclass implements but which should rather
be reflected to the "contained" class. My code now looks like

class Dockable( gtk.HandleBox ):
    "Repraesentiert eine andockbare Werkzeugleiste"

    _meth = ["set_style"]
    
    def __init__( self, Class ):
        gtk.HandleBox.__init__( self )
        
        self.__dict__["_child"] = Class()
        self.add( self._child )
        for meth in self._meth:
            self.__dict__[meth] = getattr( self._child, meth )
        
    def __getattr__( self, attr ):
        return getattr( self._child, attr )

It might not be a "totally political correct"[*] solution, but it works :)

Thanks your help.

Yours,

Mickey.

[*] which brings the question, when and how justified can a "bad design" be, if
it saves you a whole lot of code, especially for many ugly special cases, which
can't be a sign of good design, either? Opinions?





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sat Mar  9 04:34:01 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:34:01 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 final version
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:50:47 PST."
             <OF2274428C.7C1C67E7-ON88256B76.00718FDB@i2.com>
Message-ID: <E16jdEn-0001eN-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> In light of the "Parade of PEPS" message, I also have asked the PEP
> administrator to move PEP 276 to the withdrawn/rejected group.
>
> Many thanks to all who participated in the PEP 276 discussions.

I didn't want to add to the noise, but now I want to say thank you for
the way you're admitting defeat.

IMHO, features like you proposed are better served by Python modules
than by syntax changes (technically, your proposal isn't a syntax
change but I think the motivation was just syntactical). Opposed to a
syntactical feature, a generator exported by a Python module is:

- explicit (better than implicit <wink>)

- self documenting

- one less special case

- less likely to participate in unexpected interaction of features

- an object in its own right (can be passed around, introspected, ...)

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar  9 00:55:38 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 05:55:38 GMT
Subject: instantiating a class
References: <3c899c2d@news.cc.umr.edu>
Message-ID: <a6c84q$j15$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:08 -0600, "Carl" <kingprad at mail.com> wrote:

>I'm an intermediate-level python programmer and use classes all the time,
>but a weird problem is frustrating me.
>
>In my main program:
>
>
>import lj_connect
>
>blah blah code
>
>talkserver = lj_connect.lj_connect(userinfo)
>
>
what happens if you go to the directory where lj_connect.py is,
run python, and do the above (minus blah blah ..) interactively?

if the import succeeds, try dir(lj_connect) to see whether the
spelling of the class name might have gotten glitched, or whatever.

>the start of lj_connect.py is this:
>
>class lj_connect:
> def __init__(self,basic_data):
>  self.uinfo = basic_data
>
>
>I'm getting an AttributeError saying module lj_connect has no attribute
>lj_connect. Originally the lj_connect code was in the same file as the main
>program until I moved it for readability's sake. Can anyone see a problem?
>Thank so much!

Looks like it ought to work. Did you accidentally include class lj_connect
in a """comment""" ? The dir(lj_connect) will tell.

Regards,
Bengt Richter

>
>Carl
>
>



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Mar 12 09:54:22 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 08:54:22 -0600
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3c8e0911_1 at news.bluewin.ch>,
Samuele Pedroni <pedronis at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote in message
>mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list at python.org...
>> So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
>> Herald - see
>> http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html
>>
>
>It's probably just the journalist's fault but I find the article frivolous
>and vague.
>
>What he is concretely working about? What he contretely want to work about?
>etc... There are many possible integration philosophies and technologies?
>and both aspects tech/philosophy are far from irrelevant.
>(The frozen Python.NET as a full fledged Python or limited
>and altered, a new attempt in that direction, bridging ...)
>
>Is he working in stealth-mode or it is just MS-kind PR <wink>?
>
>What kind of Python technologies will the book treat?
>
>Just some academic questions. regards.
>
>
>
>
>
>

My background is academic.  I spend a lot of time nowadays
journalistically.  I can assure you that this article is
*not* frivolous or vague--at least not in comparison with
most of what appears in the popular and trade presses.

My best to Mark, in any case.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From bh at intevation.de  Fri Mar  8 07:07:03 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 13:07:03 +0100
Subject: Integers class...?
References: <slrna8ffpo.dba.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <3C882BF0.B7B6A239@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <6qd6yf461k.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> The only thing you don't get from that is an
> easy way to iterate backwards. The best I can
> think of is
> 
>   for x in reverse(ints[0:11]):

Slices support a step parameter, so

    for x in int[9:-1:-1]:

should work, I think. Whether this is really so much more convenient
than range or xrange is a different matter. The fact that this new
feature could be defined to create an iterator could be an advantage,
tough.


   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  1 11:12:21 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 08:12:21 -0800
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com>

"DeepBleu" <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote in message 
> Deitel and Deitel book on Python?  I personally would not touch it.  Give me
> a book written by Lutz, Holden or Hammond any time.  But not from the
> establishment of Deitel.  I bet you they do not even know how to program in
> Python.  All their books are churned out by what resembles an
> industry-complex with standard issue.
> Long ago I discovered a mistake in their old C++ How to Program.  I sent
> them an e-mail.  The answer still brings vivd memories of when you feel like
> throwing up.  Arrogant bunch of oppurtunists who are not worth the price of
> the paper their books are printed on.
> You want books on Python:  Buy Beazley, Lundh, Holden, Hammond, Greyson
> etc....
> Leave Deitel alone!
> DeepBleu

I agree with you to a point. They don't seem passionate about
programming, and the books are definitely cookie cutter. That said,
more books on the python landscape is a good thing. And as the
previous poster said, programming books are a personal thing.

Personally I found a lot of the best material is online. Beazley's
presentations are excellent, as is his dead tree book. Eckel's, "The
thinking in Python", is very good. For beginners the "How to Think
Like a Computer Scientist" I found better that most dead tree books
(http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/).

I would love to see books on Algorithms with Python (makes a perfect
fit), and more advanced topics such as threads and extending python.


From newsfroups at jerf.org  Tue Mar  5 14:31:54 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:31:54 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C8466F9.2080903@jerf.org> <_f7h8.5541$aP6.6480@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <3C851D41.3000902@jerf.org>

Reginald B. Charney wrote:

> In this idiom, I am not trying to traverse a tree. I am trying to execute
> what I declare. Also, this idiom allows for very shallow dependencies. There
> is no inheritance here. In this example, I am trying to write:
> 
> h = HTML(); b = BODY(); p = PHP()
> 
> Note that there is no interdependencies.


But there ARE interdepencies. If you didn't care about the order, you 
wouldn't be upset about 'destructors' being called in the wrong order. 
Thus, dependencies. You are trying to offload the order depencies onto 
the destructor rules, but the destructor rules aren't hearing of it.

Additionally, the style you show is fundamentally too weak to work with 
HTML.

h = HTML()
b = BODY()
l = LIST()
le = LISTELEMENT()
p = PARAGRAPH()

Is the paragraph a child of the list element, or not? This is merely one 
of the hundreds of similar situations you'll encounter in HTML. You 
can't generate HTML this way.

h = HTML()
he = HEADER()
t = TITLE()
b = BODY()

Now what? Will body be a child of title?

And again, HTML stands in for ANY tree structure. You ***cannot*** 
flatten a tree structure without losing data.

You have developed a style of coding that is *extremely* dependent, 
dangerously so, on very, very particular details of a single, 
increasingly outdated* language. Your style has numerous disadvantages, 
and no significant advantages I can see. I echo the recommendations of 
another poster to use a real HTML library, or to do something like what 
I proposed, or, if nothing else, to simply declare HTMLStart and HTMLEnd 
functions.

I don't know of any interpreted language that guarentees, as part of the 
language specification, destructor order. For that matter, many 
non-interpreted languages don't specify it either. In fact, even IF 
C/C++ specifies the destructor order, which I don't care to look up 
right now, I would not be surprised that not all compilers will destruct 
in that order at the end of a function.

Perhaps you'd like functional?

HTML(BODY(PHP()))

No, it's not as simple as what you show, but that's life. It can be 
adjusted to work better then that.

*outdated C: C/C++ has a well known set of advantages and disadvantages, 
which I have no beef with. The point here is that nobody's trying to 
make a better C nowadays. Unless you write your own, you may very well 
NEVER find a language with destructors that are as user-controllable as 
C.  Most of us are happy to give up that responsibility, and concentrate 
on writing code.



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Mar 14 18:12:36 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 23:12:36 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <u8v0dg4lej417@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a6rap4$d3g$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:
> It happens to me too, mostly when I'm using a sliding window
> type algorithm, that is, I need to look at two adjacent members
> of the list. You can't do this easily by iterating through the list;
> unrolling the first entry and the last entry are a pain.

> Is there a way of handling this nicely? Somehow I doubt it.

I occasionally use this:

  last_element = list[0]
  for element in list[1:]:
     # some_operation on element and last_element here
     last_element = element

Do you mean that by unrolling the first and last entries? I mean, there's
not much unrolling going on here.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 08:37:53 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:37:53 -0500
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com> <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <junkster-FC1F06.05481529032002@typhoon4-1.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <g7_o8.16919$Ou.7716@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Benjamin Schollnick" <junkster at rochester.rr.com> wrote ...
> In article <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
>  Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:
>
> > case:  Don't like it.  We already have means to do what a case does and
do it
> > more elegantly.  It would add a needless redundant portion to the
language.
>
>
> We do???
>
> We have the IF .... ELIF statement structure, which can be used to
> simulate a case statement, but it is not as clear nor as neat as
> the case statement.
>
[case statement suggestions ]
>
> And it can be optimized to:
>
> CASE X of:
>    0,6   : DO_THIS()
>    2     : DO_THIS (2)
>    4     : DO_THIS (x+2)
>  ELSE:
>       DO_NOT_DO_THIS()
>
OK, how would the above handle the case where X == (0,6)?

Clearly we could explicitly add parentheses to handle tuple-valued case
variables, but would we then have to also lable the singleton case values as
tuples?

case X of:
    (0, 6, (0,6)): this()
    (2,): that()
    (4,): the_other()

Doesn't look quite so clean now, though, does it?

> if Z == "ZEBRA":
>    DO_THIS (ZEBRA)
>
> The key issue is that I believe the IF / ELIF / ELSE statement can be
> used with multiple variables during the IF ELIF..... At least I remember
> using it that way....
>
I'm not sure what this statement means. With an "if" construct you can
compare as few or as many variables as you like to form a single Boolean
result. And clearly if/elif/elif/else can handle any number of cases anyway.
Ultimately the only way to implement a case statement in its full generality
is to use the lower-level if/elif/elif/else construct, so what we are
discussing here is syntactic sugar.

> The CASE is cleaner, and can only be used to compare a SINGLE variable
> with multiple values.  And I believe it's easier to maintain.....(And
> can be optimized easier).
>
I don't. By the way, there's NO NEED TO SHOUT! ;-)

regards
 Steve






From a.martin at perfectwww.de  Wed Mar 13 12:20:03 2002
From: a.martin at perfectwww.de (Andreas Martin)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 09:20:03 -0800
Subject: Ho to use a regular expression group reference as hash key
References: <f2dbb0ed.0203111447.31eddd81@posting.google.com> <a6jve0$t1h$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <f2dbb0ed.0203130920.38536744@posting.google.com>

Ahh.. the % substitution operator is perfect. First I didn't
understand what to do with an %s format string.

Thank you

"Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote in message news:<a6jve0$t1h$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>...
> Maybe the % substitution operator will help.
> 
> >>> person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}
> >>> target = 'A sample sentence with %(entry1)s and %(entry2)s'
> >>> print target % person
> A sample sentence with value1 and value2


From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Mar 29 18:19:36 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 00:19:36 +0100
Subject: Help with POST request.
References: <mailman.1017440584.2947.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91E137C02794cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Gustavo Cordova <gcordova at hebmex.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1017440584.2947.python-list at python.org: 
...
> Well, I'm having some trouble accepting POST requests.
...
> ==========================================================import
> BaseHTTPServer 
> 
> SIMPLE_WEB_FORM = """ ... a little web page in HTML ..."""
> 
> class TestHTTPRequestHandler
(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
>     def test_response(self):
>         # Always so positive.
>         self.send_response(200)
>         self.send_header("Content-type", "text/html")
>         self.end_headers()
> 
>     def do_GET(self):
>         self.test_response()
>         self.wfile.write(SIMPLE_WEB_FORM)
> 
>     def do_POST(self):
>         self.test_response()
>         print "-" * 60

          #find out length of input data
          length = int(self.headers.getheader('content-length'))
          #read data
          print self.rfile.read(length)

>         print "-" * 60
>         self.wfile.write(SIMPLE_WEB_FORM)
> 
> BaseHTTPServer.test(TestHTTPRequestHandler, 
BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer)
> 
> ==========================================================
> OK, the problem is I can't ever see what's being sent via POST,
> it hangs when reading from the rfile object.
> 
> I'd appreciate any and all comments.

i've replaced the read() above with a solution that works for me.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From marduk at python.net  Mon Mar 18 18:04:07 2002
From: marduk at python.net (marduk)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 17:04:07 -0600
Subject: Declare list of large size
In-Reply-To: <sn4rjdsdhd.fsf@motorola.com>
References: <sn4rjdsdhd.fsf@motorola.com>
Message-ID: <1016492648.2016.4.camel@berkowitz>

On Mon, 2002-03-18 at 16:44, Aaron Ginn wrote:
> 
> Perhaps I've just glossed over this in the documentation, but what is
> the simplest way to declare a list of large size?  Is there something
> analogous to the following in C:
> 
> int list[100];
> 

list = [0]*100

--m


 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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From netlangau at yahoo.com.au  Sun Mar 10 20:18:11 2002
From: netlangau at yahoo.com.au (Patrick)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:18:11 +1100
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <oBTi8.1475$523.127893@ozemail.com.au>

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
news:a6g7ra$lm6$1 at panix2.panix.com...
>
> But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
> than C/Python?

One example is an extremely complex and long-running simulation in which the
time-critical components are a very substantial chunk of the project. In
those (rare) situations you need ruthless efficiency with slightly better
than rudimentary abstraction capabilities. C++ fits the bill, but only if
every processor cycle and every byte counts.

The vast majority of programmers will never go anywhere near a project like
that. Even "real programmers" very seldom do. And you can virtually
guarantee that if somebody is idiot enough to claim that knowing C++ is
either necessary or sufficient for being a real programmer, they will never
work on a project that actually needs C++.

Unless somebody has already spent years learning C++, I think they're much
better off using either (a) one vastly more powerful yet still reasonably
efficient language like Common Lisp, or (b) two lean and vicious languages
like C and Python - both small and simple, both perfectly suited to their
respective domains, and both complementary. Either way you end up with very
good performance and far less mental friction.

If the OP is still around, I'd recommend learning C and Python at this
stage. In spite of what your friends tell you, C++ is *not* a powerful
language in the sense that it has one of the worst power/complexity ratios
of any language in use today. Don't mistake effiency for power.

If two people of equal ability started programming today, one learning C and
Python, the other learning C++, I'd wager that the C/Python guy will be
running conceptual rings around the C++ guy 12 months from now. Power in a
language is all about being able to express your most complex thoughts with
as few arbitrary difficulties as possible. Some languages help. Some hinder.





From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Sun Mar 24 08:40:48 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:40:48 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Pyro 2.5 available
References: <mailman.1016835844.1744.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7kl11$9je$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

For the people out there that are interested in Pyro;

> You can get the latest Pyro version (2.5) at http://pyro.sourceforge.net
>
> What's new:
> New URIs to make object lookup even simpler

I forgot to mention:
for the new PYRONAME:// and PYROLOC:// URIs to work, I had to make some changes
to the Pyro Daemon.
The Daemon itself is now also a Pyro object. This means you can access the
Daemon remotely.
I'm not sure if this is a good approach.
On one hand, it is quite flexible, because we can now get interesting
information from the Daemon, such as all registered objects.
On the other hand, I see a potential security and stability risk. You don't want
anybody to access the Daemon... right?

What do you think? I'm very interested in your opinion about this.

Thank you
Irmen de Jong

PS
What's all that fuss about the new URI formats? Well, let me show you:

#! /usr/bin/env python
import Pyro.core
Pyro.core.initClient()
object=Pyro.core.getProxyForURI("PYRONAME://:Test.MyObject")  # lookup through
Name Server
print object.method()
object=Pyro.core.getProxyForURI("PYROLOC://localhost:MyObject")  # direct lookup
print object.method()
# that's all :-)





From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Thu Mar 21 18:31:51 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:31:51 GMT
Subject: quick win32 pipe and objects question
References: <X0sm8.575$d7.169869@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <H3um8.591$d7.176733@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

the answer is to pickle first.

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:X0sm8.575$d7.169869 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> when writing and reading from a pipe, is it okay to do something like ...
>
> >>> t = (0, 1, 2, 3)
> >>> r = win32pipe.CallNamedPipe(pipename, t, 512, 0)
>
> of should i pickle t first?
>
> -d
>
>




From jhg at galdon.com  Thu Mar 14 16:57:33 2002
From: jhg at galdon.com (Juan Huertas)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:57:33 +0100
Subject: zlib and performance
Message-ID: <a6r6bh$q7m$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>

I have a file, with records generated using cPickle and zlib, for example:

record1=['juan',0,123.456,'Madrid',23,'Granada','Spain']

usualy in the real case the length of the list is 30 or 40.

My file has 60,000 records aprox.

For archive i use, a btrieve file:

f[id]=compress(dumps(record1))
f..sync()

When i need to read the whole file, i use:

r={}
for k in f.keys():
        r[k]=loads(decompress(f[k]))

and in Windows 2000 (256 Mb ram) P-III 1000 Ghz Python 2.1.2 this takes 4
sec aprox:

    1 sec for retrieving f[k]
    2 sec for decompress
    1 sec for loads

If i need, read the whole file a continuation, i proceed:

r={} # This takes 3 seconds aprox !!! (Why?)

for k in f.keys():
        r[k]=loads(decompress(f[k]))


    1 sec for retrieving f[k]
    28 sec for decompress !!! (Why?)
    1 sec for loads

Whats is the problem?. zlib does not work fine?

Please aid.

In Windows XP this does not occurs!!!








From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Mar 12 17:02:14 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 23:02:14 +0100
Subject: serial port communication
References: <3c8e6884.10907140@news.planetis.com> <ncuj8.20190$N7.4739028@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91CFEA73CE8B3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in news:ncuj8.20190$N7.4739028
@ruti.visi.com:
> There are a couple serial port libraries around that can make
> life easier.  Mine is strictly for Posix (Unix) systems:
> 
>  ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/PosixSerial.py
> 
> There are some others that are cross-platform, and Googling for
> "serial" in comp.lang.python should find them.

<shameless plug>
one of them is http://pyserial.sf.net which is multiplatform and the 
posix part is based on Grant's code. </shameless plug>

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From nas at python.ca  Thu Mar  7 13:44:08 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:44:08 -0800
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
In-Reply-To: <slrna8f8cf.n0i.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>; from akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 05:21:20PM +0000
References: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com> <7x7kope1n9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrna8f8cf.n0i.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <20020307104408.C3043@glacier.arctrix.com>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Unfortunately we haven't wrapped up mod_scgi for release yet.

It's getting close.  I'd like to polish the SCGI specification a little
more and write a lightweight CGI to SCGI adaptor (for servers other than
Apache).  It would be cool to have a threading SCGI server Python module
in addition to the pre-forking one we already.  I'm not the guy to write
one though so that won't hold up the release.
 
  Neil



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 19 04:04:23 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 10:04:23 +0100
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <3C96F705.50908@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <m3hendapyg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:

> > p.s.2 what is the status on win9x? Give it up or ;-)
> 
> I *think* it still works when accessing a Unicode aware file system
> (ie, network)

Doesn't even a local FAT32 file system expose file names in CP_ACP? So
"mbcs" should work everywhere.

With PEP 277, you can get Unicode file names if you pass a Unicode
directory to listdir.

Regards,
Martin



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Thu Mar 28 23:08:31 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:08:31 -0600
Subject: IDiscMaster interface
References: <mailman.1017284923.21591.python-list@python.org> <3CA366AB.934E9719@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <008d01c1d6d7$6c472880$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com>
> 
> Chris Gonnerman wrote:
> 
> > I have been investigating the IDiscMaster interface implemented
> > in Windows XP...
> 
> Note that there are (effectively) two types of COM interfaces --
> "custom" and "automation" (I'm not sure I've got the terms exactly
> right, but...)  Pythoncom currently only handles automation interfaces
> (which were inteded to be used from scripting languages), not custom
> interfaces (which were effectively intended to be used from C++).  As
> I understand it, in order to handle a custom interface (which I am
> guessing the IDiscMaster interface is), you'd need to delve deep into
> the internals of pythoncom.  Of course, I'd *love* to be proved wrong
> about this...  ;)
> 

Ug.  I was afraid that it would be something like that.  Add this to
the list of things which are evil in Windows.

Any chance anyone else might be planning to "wrap" this interface?





From nospam at [127.0.0.1]  Fri Mar 15 15:11:06 2002
From: nospam at [127.0.0.1] (Chris)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:11:06 +0000
Subject: This may seem a slightly strange problem ...
Message-ID: <jSSm1aIaVlk8Ewdu@[127.0.0.1]>

I want to learn programming - just for fun - and to learn more about 
computing - and the problem is I don't know what to write!

I mean I can't seem to think of an interesting project.
Has anyone else experienced this?
It feels really silly!

I did think of one thing that I'd be interested in
but it's probably above my level
(which is the lowest level!)
and probably isn't possible in Python.

That was to write a program to display all the possible 24-bit colours
in a systematic way.

But, aside from that, any advice on thinking up programs to write?
-- 
Chris


From fabi.kreutz at gmx.de  Mon Mar  4 10:23:20 2002
From: fabi.kreutz at gmx.de (fabi.kreutz at gmx.de)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 15:23:20 GMT
Subject: SAX-Parser entity
References: <a5nt0b$pta$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> <m3k7swrpnw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a603h8$phj$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

Martin v. Loewis and some other people wrote:
> It is indeed very easy: There is an error in your document. It has no
> encoding declaration in the xml header. The parser rightfully rejects
> it.

Yeah, now that you say it ...
I just finished my work-around, but this way is of course the better (and
only correct) way.
I probably was too convinced that it must be minidom's fault to think about
that.

Thank's again.
	Fabian


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 18 01:20:29 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:20:29 +1100
Subject: Creating a module that uses itself
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A218@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Asheesh Laroia [mailto:pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com]
> 
> I'm writing a PageMaker-to-specialized-HTML module (henceforth
> "pm2html").  In the module, I define the classes Article, 
> Headline, and
> Photo, among others.
> 
> In the Article class, I want to have a Headline object.  Is this
> possible?  Right now, ActivePython's PythonWin spits a syntax 
> error at me
> because the Headline class is not defined.  But I can't
> 
> 	import pm2html
> 
> (which is where the Headline object lives) because *that's 
> the file I'm
> working in*!
> 
> So, how do I create a module that uses objects it creates?

Post the code. Try not to include anything that isn't necessary (but don't
strip out what is - make sure that what you post fails in the same way).

Tim Delaney



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Mar 12 17:33:53 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:33:53 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015969832.32501.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lnvj8.10804$mp.49596@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Jason Orendorff:
> Neil Hodgson wrote:
> >    In my experience writing a lexer for Perl (for use in syntax styling
> > editors), 'here documents' and arbitrary quote sequences add much
> > complexity to a lexer. [...]
>
> (skeptical look)  Are you really claiming to have written a lexer
> for Perl?  Is that even possible?

   No. I started writing a lexer for Perl, but it is incomplete and is
likely to remain incomplete. The subset of Perl handled is sufficient for
syntax styling but is not sufficient for a language interpreter. The code is
available as part of Scintilla and is used in various IDEs. At one stage it
was used in Komodo, but ActiveState may have changed to using the Perl
interpreter's lexer. I wrote the first versions and then other contributors
extended the lexer into some of the more difficult pieces of Perl syntax.

   The implementation of lexing and parsing in the Perl interpreter is a bit
messy, using parse level information to guide lexical analysis.

   Neil





From jeffbi at jetsoft.com  Tue Mar 19 18:23:48 2002
From: jeffbi at jetsoft.com (Jeff Bienstadt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:23:48 -0800
Subject: IntSpan?
Message-ID: <3c97c886@news.nwlink.com>

Does there exist for Python something akin to the Set::IntSpan module for
Perl?

I'm looking for something that inteligently handles and manipulates spans
of integers, such as:
   2-356,456,458-500

Thus far, web searches have been unsuccessful...

Thanks,

---jkb






From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 15:00:22 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 21:00:22 +0100
Subject: interactive python shell
References: <mailman.1017254623.8656.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3hen1ok6h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

ian reinhart geiser <geiseri at yahoo.com> writes:

> I have an python application and I would like to provide a
> "console" in the application where users can have an interactive
> session with python that has all of the applications enviroment.
> This is for debugging the system in real time.

> Is there an easy way to do this?

What's wrong with using standard input and output for that? If you
want to emulate a Python interactive session, you can use
code.InteractiveConsole.

HTH,
Martin



From tim-dated-1016743233.4ed988 at catseye.net  Thu Mar 14 15:40:32 2002
From: tim-dated-1016743233.4ed988 at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 14:40:32 -0600
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
In-Reply-To: <a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>
	<a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net>
	<a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <86lmcu7uin.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

Peter Dobcsanyi <dpeter at designtheory.org> writes:

> Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> > 
> > note that
> > 
> >    index = 0
> >    for item in mylist:
> >        <whatever>
> >        index += 1
> > 
> > is faster than
> > 
> >    for index in range(len(mylist)):
> >        item = mylist[index]
> >        <whatever>
> > 
> 
> Here is some timing with variations posted so far.
> 
>     i in range(len(ls)):              2.01
>     x in ls; i+=1 :                   2.59
>     lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x):   3.86
>     Iter class:                      10.7

[...]

> def bar(ls):
>     i = 0
>     for x in ls:
>         if ls[i] == '998':
>             return i
>         i += 1

No.  Your bar() function is broken and the test results invalid.  Try
this instead:

def bar(ls):
    i = 0
    for x in ls:
        if x == '998':
            return i
        i += 1

You already have ls[i] as x, which was the whole point of /F's post.


Tim



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 13:56:10 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:56:10 +0100
Subject: Newbie: Undefined reference when initializing Python
In-Reply-To: <uzo1cqqfi.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1016042123.7905.python-list@python.org> <uzo1cqqfi.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <20020313185610.GC1227@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 18:18, Michael Hudson ?crivit:
> "henrikb666" <evil_wicked at ofir.dk> writes:
> 
> [...]
> > I already include <Python.h> at the top of the TServer.cc file, so 
> > that's not it. Could it have something to do with my Makefile?
> 
> You need to link to Python; there should be a "-lpython" in there
> somewhere (and probably a "-L/some/path/or/other/" too).
 
Also take a look at this URL, before you tear your hairs out trying to
satisfy all the library dependencies:

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/11864

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 14.2 ?C      Wind: 1.2 m/s



From vlindberg at verio.net  Tue Mar 26 17:12:09 2002
From: vlindberg at verio.net (VanL)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:12:09 -0700
Subject: Symbolic imports and manipulation of the namespace?
Message-ID: <3CA0F239.7020205@verio.net>

Hello,

I was recently solving a problem which required that the config file 
(just a python file) lie outside of the pythonpath.  Is it possible to 
do symbolic importation of a module?

For example, I had:

# cfgpath is passed in on the command line
cfgpath = os.path.basename(cfgpath)
sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
import sc_cfg     #Hardcoded config module name!


How do you do this:

# cfgpath is passed in on the command line
cfgpath, cfgfile = os.path.split(cfgpath)
sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
import cfgfile     #Hardcoded config module name!

So that any file name (ending with .py, of course, but that's another 
matter) could be the configfile?
I tried the above, but I got an ImportError (no module named cfgfile)

Thanks,

Van




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 19 22:32:20 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 03:32:20 GMT
Subject: Q: Sound production with python?
References: <Xns91D77C5869670AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <a78vs4$job$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Mar 2002 01:42:45 GMT, "A.Newby" <deathtospam43423 at altavista.com> wrote:

>Being a beginner fiddle player, as well as a beginner python programmer, I 
>want to write a little prog that trains the sense of pitch.
>
>How envisage it working is thus...
>
>It plays a simple 4 note melody, then repeats the melody with one of the 
>notes (selected randomly) slightly off pitch ... say by 20% or 10% or 5%. 
>The user then has to detect which note was off.
>
>What modules and commands should I use to generate this sounds? What's the 
>best way to go about it?
>
I wonder if there is a midi module you could use to play midi violin notes
and use the pitch bend thing to vary them.

If so, be sure you have the 'everything-off' (or whatever it's called) code
correctly defined and easy to output ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From truce at inwind.it  Tue Mar 26 03:28:34 2002
From: truce at inwind.it (truce)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:28:34 +0100
Subject: [ZPublisher] how to install ?
Message-ID: <20020326.092833.352118606.2249@inwind.it>

Hi!
I'm using mod_python and from the docs I've read about
ZPublisher.

I would like to use the great ability to point to a function inside
a module from URL ... http://server/site/module/function

how can I do this?
is this the only way to do this ?
I don't want to use all Zope, and if possible some solution
that use my version of python 2.2 ...

thax a lot
davide.


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sun Mar  3 23:55:20 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Mar 2002 20:55:20 -0800
Subject: Rotor in Jython?
References: <mailman.1015205464.19504.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xit8daq4n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> writes:
> But the sorry history of rotors has nothing to do with rotor strength and
> everything to do with short/obvious keys, the obvious starting text of the
> messages (e.g. "No news to report"), and the limitations of mechanical
> implementations. You can *always* make a rotor stronger by increasing the
> length of the key - and at no additional computational cost.

That's erroneous--if you count the rotor and plugboard permutations,
the WW2 Enigma machines had a very large key space (maybe larger than
56-bit DES) but they were cryptanalyzed with fairly crude
electromechanical devices (the "Bombe" was basically 6 Enigmas wired
together).


From ryanmorillo at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 21:40:01 2002
From: ryanmorillo at hotmail.com (Ryan)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 18:40:01 -0800
Subject: personel CDDB
Message-ID: <4a7fde99.0203251840.2aafdf58@posting.google.com>

I'm thinking about writting a personel CD database that links into RDB
so you can put in a cd and have python link to crdb and make a
personel database to keep track of your cd's (and maybe rip mp3s from
it and store them in the database to)  I'm wondering if many people
would have an interest in this so I will know whether to just write it
so it works, or write it the right way, (ie. pure python and a gui
using anydb).  If it's just for me it won't be nearly as robust and
will use a lot of win32 extensions (for speed).  If there is enough
interest I may even post to source-forge.
Thx
Ryan


From gimbo at ftech.net  Tue Mar 19 04:32:41 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:32:41 +0000
Subject: Correct to use instance = module.__dict__[class_name]() ?
In-Reply-To: <just-AFD99B.19484218032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1016473950.9924.python-list@python.org> <just-AFD99B.19484218032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20020319093241.GE19877@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 07:48:42PM +0100, Just van Rossum wrote:

> This would be better:
> 
> def bar(module_name, class_name):
>     module = __import__(module_name, globals(), locals(), [])
>     handler = getattr(module, class_name)()
>     return handler

Ah, yes.  That feels nicer.  :-) Excellent - thanks!

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From narnett at mccmedia.com  Sun Mar 24 19:29:46 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:29:46 -0800
Subject: hang in urllib.read()?
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJGEMCJMAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>

The (presumably) infinite loop that I thought was in sgmllib, about which I
posted earlier, actually seems to be when I call read() on an urllib.urlopen
object.  It's terribly non-reproducible, though -- I'm retrieving lots of
pages and sometimes it'll go for dozens and dozens, no problem.  Other time
it hangs after just a few.  And it won't do it on the same page twice, as
far as I can see.

I've been unable to find anything like this searching...  sound familiar to
anyone, or any suggestions for nailing it down, short of gruesome stepping
through with a debugger, hoping I can catch one...?

This is on Win2000 with Python 2.2.  Haven't tried on other platforms yet.

Nick

--
narnett at mccmedia.com
(408) 904-7198




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Mar  8 02:08:18 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:08:18 -0800
Subject: Learning from imperfect lectures
In-Reply-To: <3C8821FE.B81C4A5D@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1015496952.15967.python-list@python.org> <3C8821FE.B81C4A5D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020308070818.GA1112@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Peter Hansen (peter at engcorp.com):
> Roman Suzi wrote:
> > 
> > I do not remember who told me this, but it seems that students
> > better learn from poorly constructed lectures than perfect ones.
> > Because, they need to be _active_ in constructing their own system
> > rather than _passively_ "eat" readymaid knowledge frames.
> 
> Wow.  Deep... I like this (to me) completely new idea.  

This idea was new to me, too, in form but not in concept. Pedagogical
coursework -- like the stuff they teach to new grad students who are
going to be teaching assistants, or the stuff they teach to people in
education programs -- frequently talks about how important it is to
engage the student, and how involving them and making them think about
the material is the teacher's primary task, with presenting the
material actually being secondary.

The actual practice of an "imperfect presentation", though, is
something I'd not considered before -- the idea of leaving blanks for
the student to fill in is both appealing and a little alarming.

> Anyone know where it came from?  References to a study or something?

If you look for it, it will be there, but I can't provide you with
specific materials. Try checking into research in educational
techniques; that's where you're most likely to find something like
that. Failing that, developmental psych is likely where it came from,
but it's more likely to be a needle in a haystack, there.

> Someone I know worked for months (on and off) on a presentation that 
> could have been done (imperfectly) in a week.  When it was presented,
> the reception seemed to me rather luke-warm, in spite of apparently
> strong interest in the audience ahead of it (and after).  The 
> presentation struck me at the time as being _very_ "polished", but
> perhaps with too little unsaid for someone to question, or think
> about.  I suspect this is the reason why it didn't seem to work.

Interesting anecdotal evidence. I can think of several cases where
I've felt somewhat the same way about presentations that I've given.
It's often taught me and my audience both more if my presentation is
struggling to hold together at the seams.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "I am always doing that which I can not do, 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     in order that I may learn how to do it." 
http://www.gerrietts.net                    --Pablo Picasso



From krissepu at vip.fi  Mon Mar 25 02:40:06 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (pekka niiranen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:40:06 GMT
Subject: unicode and locale of machine ?
Message-ID: <3C9ED480.8000403@vip.fi>

My plan is to store text data in single format and display it
according to machine's locale.

Is it possible to read the current keyboard layout or
language settings in windows/unix and use that
automatically to convert text from unicode to printable
in another machine ?

Or have I completely misunderstood unicode ?

-pekka-







From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 02:29:43 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 08:29:43 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <m3wuwwg2zc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> writes:

> IMO, the Python source code parser should never see any text data[1]
> that is not UTF-8 encoded.  If you want to submit Python programs to
> the parser that are not UTF-8 encoded, then it is your responsibility
> as the programmer to make sure they get translated into UTF-8 (eg, by
> the preprocessing hook) before the interpreter proper ever sees them.

That would cause surprises to users. They have a source program that says

# -*- coding: koi8-r -*-
print "some cyrillic text"

This currently works fine on their system; the text comes out on the
terminal just right. Now, Python would convert this text silently to
UTF-8 behind their backs, and the terminal would show just garbage.

In XEmacs, this is no problem: the "terminal" mostly is the *Messages*
buffer, and that would know that all text is UTF-8.

For Unicode strings, we indeed plan to make the transformation you
suggest (not to UTF-8, though): If you have a script that reads

# -*- coding: koi8-r -*-
print u"some cyrillic text"

then the string literal will be converted to the internal Unicode
type. How to print it is then another issue; you'll have to figure out
the encoding of the terminal - that is feasible in most cases. 

It is not feasible to do the same for arbitrary byte strings: You (the
Python interpreter) could not know whether the string is supposedly
UTF-8 encoded, and that conversion to the terminal's encoding is
needed, or whether the string is an arbitrary byte sequence, which is
intended to appear on the terminal as-is. "All byte strings are UTF-8"
is not going to work, since Python is used to operate on binary data
as well, and the bytes that make up a GIF file just aren't UTF-8.

> [1]  Ie, Python language or character text.  It might be convenient to
> have an octet-string primitive data type, in which you could put
> EUC-encoded Japanese or Java byte codes.  

The traditional "string" type is, in fact, a byte string type. Many
people use it still for character strings, since the Unicode type was
the later addition. Changing the string type to be a Unicode type was
not feasible since that would have broken many applications, in
particular C modules which expect that the internal representation of
the string type is char[].

> [2]  But I recommend against this.  Don't offer support for such; it's
> a time and effort sink, for little return.

There will be a simple form of auto-recognition: an UTF-8 signature
(i.e. a UTF-8 encoded BOM) at the beginning of a source file will be
treated as a clear indication that the file is UTF-8.

Regards,
Martin



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 17:44:12 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:44:12 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <200203301338.g2UDc0m01524@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Guido, on why operator.truth() should change to return True/False]
> Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> an int is int(b).

It's also an incorrect way for me, because I meant "true/false expression"
in the way Python has always meant it, e.g. operator.truth([]) == 0, but
int([]) raises an exception.  The alternative int(bool(b)) is not obvious
(else you would have thought of it first <wink>), and becomes needed only if
operator.truth() is changed.

> Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for this purpose is
> backwards.

Under the PEP it's extremely easy to get a bool result (bool(b)), so I favor
presuming that anyone bothering to use operator.truth() will do so because
bool() doesn't do what they want; and if they're using truth() in 2.2, are
doing so because they specifically want a 0/1 result.

> (IMO there's almost *never* a reason to import that module anyway.)

That's not a reason to change what it does -- people who do import it
generally know exactly what they're doing, or have no idea <wink>.




From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Mar  6 21:19:10 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 11:19:10 +0900
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3c864a78$1_3@news.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <873czdnmqp.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Clements <bkc at Murkworks.com> writes:

    Brad> You can find a respectable (IMHO) chapter on extending and
    Brad> embedding in "Professional Linux Programming", Wrox Press.

    Brad> Strange place to bury it, but if you're in a bookstore some
    Brad> time check it out. I'd like to know your opinion.

I thought it was clear, although I haven't tried to apply it yet.

(I'm a co-author)


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 15:29:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 20:29:58 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org> <a6f0fl$u8n$0@216.39.172.122> <NuMi8.333338$Aw2.26927026@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a6gfo6$b3e$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:13:17 GMT, "G. Sumner Hayes" <sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com> wrote:

>In article <a6f0fl$u8n$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>>
>> I'd say if you don't know C, C++, or Python, then start with Python.
>> Then C++, then C. In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns
>> of design you absorb solving problems with C.
>
>Ugh, I can see learning Python first but definitely learn C before
>C++.  In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns of design
>you absorb solving problems with C++.
>
>Seriously, the point of using a low-level language like C or C++ is to get
>next to the hardware, and it should be learned from that level first
>IMO.  Otherwise, stay with a more productive language like Python.
>
I think "low level" is a mis-characterization of C++, even though it obviously
has as much low level capability as C. If you are just going to use the low
level stuff (unless you are talking about assembler within C++), you might as
well use C.

ISTM C++ was designed to let you *build* "levels" with layers of abstraction
through objects and generics. IOW, one group can work at low level
to produce elements that others can use at high level. E.g., instatiating
an mp3-playing object and calling the play method is pretty trivial and high level,
yet the same C++ language can be used to write the guts of almost everything involved.

If you really want to get intimate with the[1] hardware, even C is mostly isolating
you from true carnal knowledge. Get an assembler[2], and choose every instruction and
every data location and access thereto. Disassemble and understand the MBR. Get
Linux or BSD and mess around (on a system you can afford to wipe out ;-)

[1] Of course 'the' will vary with your platform ;-)
[2] OTOH, you'd be surprised what level chunks you can build with macros
    in a good macro assembler.

>> If you start with C, you will get used to a procedural way of looking
>> at problems, and when you get to C++ you will be tempted to see it
>> as just C with extra features. You'll have to dislodge yourself from C
>> habits of thinking in order to "think objects" in C++. Coming from
>
>Conversely, if you learn in the other order you'll find yourself thinking
>of it as a limited version of C++ instead of a different language with
>its own idiom.  The point of C is that it's procedural, small, and close
>to the metal.  Viewing without the corrupting lens of C++ is extremely
>valuable, IMO.
>
I don't know what you mean by "corrupting lens of C++,"
other than a rhetorical counter point ;-)

>FWIW, I know more good programmers who learned C and then C++ than
>vice-versa.
Some of us learned to program before either existed, and couldn't
have the choice of which to learn first without ignoring C for many
years ;-)

But even if you just want to learn C, you can largely use C++ as if
it were C.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 15:12:52 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:12:52 -0500
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C8BBE44.BDA092C9@engcorp.com>

phil hunt wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
> >C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
> >that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
> >Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
> 
> I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python,
> e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems,
> run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.

Point taken, although I would try to use C far more often in those
cases than some others might.  I admit I had "application programming"
stuck in mind as I wrote the question, not system programming...

-Peter


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 06:38:52 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:38:52 +0000
Subject: redirecting stdin with Python scripts under win2k (solution)
References: <ubsdsyn38.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <9t119uo75apvom6ghje49fk21b5o325n99@4ax.com>

I'm sure you're very pleased with that but I don't see the point.

If I want to run a Python program, I just type the name of it at a
command prompt.

A few prerequisites need to be in place but some of these happen
during install:

1. The directory containing the script needs to be in your PATH
environment var or be the current directory.
2. PATHEXT environment var needs to contain ".PY;.PYC;.PYW"
3. The Python exes need to be associated with the Python file types.

Once you get all the above right, you just type:

C:\> wibble args

and it runs:

"C:\Python21\python.exe" "wibble.py" args

This only works with Win NT/2K/XP. As for 95/98/ME, well it's easier
not to bother, really.

Disguising your Python programs as batch files is going to knacker any
attempt your editor may make to help with syntax highlighting and
suchlike.

Also, FYI, I think all the command extensions you mention were
introduced with NT 4.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Mon Mar 25 17:25:44 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:25:44 -0600
Subject: How to get a key from  dictionary?
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689CF@SRM201002>

> 
> Hi,
> Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key 
> according to a value ?
> For example I have a dictionary
> 
> dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}
> 
> and 
> dict['aa']
> is 1
> 
> But how can I for value 1 find out  key? (That is here  'aa')
> 
> Thank you for help
> Ladislav
> 

You're welcome, here's an example:

>>> Dict = { "gustavo":32, "pedro":31, "campa":25 }
>>> K = Dict.keys()
>>> V = Dict.values()
>>> K
['campa', 'pedro', 'gustavo']
>>> V
[25, 31, 32]
>>> V.index(31)
1
>>> K[V.index(31)]
'pedro'
>>> Dict.keys()[Dict.values().index(32)]
'gustavo'
>>> 




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Sat Mar 16 03:02:52 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:02:52 +0900
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <a6trae$f65$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <wOCk8.303$ID.1901@news.hananet.net>

Fernando P?rez wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> Anyone have any suggestions on where I should go? Anyone can help me out
>> here?
>> 
> 
> This was my rough solution. It may be a reasonable starting point for you.
> 

It looks pretty good. However, it requires the users to install another 
package just to install the main package.

I'll take a look at it, but isn't there a way to write some kind of 
installation script in something native to windows?

Jonathan


From lars.gustaebel at gmx.de  Thu Mar 14 19:24:30 2002
From: lars.gustaebel at gmx.de (Lars Gustäbel)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:24:30 +0100
Subject: tarfile 0.2.5
Message-ID: <MPG.16fb5dab4f9ad4f1989682@news.t-online.de>

tarfile 0.2.5

tarfile is a pure python module that allows read and write access to tar 
and tar.gz archives. Its interface is compatible to the zipfile standard 
module. This will make it easy to integrate it in existing projects that 
already use zipfile, for example.

some other features:
- platform independent
- handles all common file types: files, directories, symlinks and fifos
- manages GNUtar extensions like longnames and longlinks
- stores all meta-information about files, like permission, modification 
time, username, user id etc.

It is available at:

http://www.gustaebel.de/lars/tarfile/


I hope, it will be useful.

Suggestions, comments and patches are welcome.


Lars Gustaebel (lars at gustaebel.de)


From quinn at pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Mar  9 00:38:20 2002
From: quinn at pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 05:38:20 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015273747.23915.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8j7uc.l47.quinn@pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:26:48 -0800, James_Althoff at i2.com <James_Althoff at i2.com>
wrote:
>Carel,
>
>Thanks for the explanation, below.  Very interesting.
>
>Yes, I agree with your basic analysis that producing an iterator for an
>integer makes a lot more sense if one accepts integers as first-class
>objects.  The fact that Python treats integers as well as everything else
>as first-class objects is one of the big reasons why I like Python so much.

I have no trouble accepting integers as objects just like any other type, and I
still don't like iter(5).  Objects don't need to be all-singing all-dancing.
Just because you can provide a magic method to overload a type to give a nifty
"convenient" meaning to some built in syntax doesn't mean it's a good idea.

>From my view, int.__iter__ is inappropriate overloading, just as
int.__contains__ would be, or file.__add__ would be.

I've never had range(n) be a memory or a performance problem.  The only time
it's notationally inconvenient is when I want a haskell-like inclusive range
that can go up or down, which is why I wrote hrange().

And sometimes (rarely), the most convenient kind of changing index is:

i = start
while i < upper_bound:
    ...
    i += increment

I have no problem with that either.


From lac at strakt.com  Fri Mar 22 13:46:03 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:46:03 +0100
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python 
In-Reply-To: Message from nico@aries.logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) 
   of "Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:44:20 GMT." <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr> 
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr> 
Message-ID: <200203221846.g2MIk3rq005323@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

I am most interested in this.  (But then you knew you would say that,
didn't you.)  I want to see if we can get Michel Sanner involved
as well.

Laura Creighton




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 15 19:09:58 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 01:09:58 +0100
Subject: locale module broken?
References: <3C928042.BA50A5B3@snakefarm.org>
Message-ID: <m3r8mls78p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Carsten Gaebler <clpy at snakefarm.org> writes:

> while playing around with Greg Lindstrom's "Pretty integers" (see his
> posting), my Python 2.2 got stuck here:
> 
> >>> import locale
> >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "fr_FR")
> 'fr_FR'
> >>> locale.format("%.1f", 12345.5, 1)
> 
> It runs forever. This is on RedHat 6.2 and Debian Potato. Any hints?

I can't reproduce this, with Python 2.3a0 on a SuSE 7.2 system: it
prints '12345,5'. If you care somewhat about this problem, submit a
bug report to SF. If you care a lot, please investigate.

Regards,
Martin



From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Sun Mar 24 17:56:39 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:56:39 -0000
Subject: reading in ints from binary files
References: <a7ns1d$mi1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <a7o6ac$6sb$1@newsreader1.netway.at>

"Bill" <metaliu at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:a7ns1d$mi1$1 at nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov...
> Quick Newb question:
>
> How do I read in integers from binary files?  readlines() reads returns
the
> data in as a string.  I can manipulate the string to get the desired
result.
> However, is there an easier way of doing this?  I currently do something
> like:
>
> f=open('file', 'rb')
> s = f.readline()
> l = list(s[0:-1])
> l.reverse()
> a = array.array('h', ''.join(l))

I had a similar problem: reading a binary array of dimension 360x180. The
satellite-datas have been stored in floating-point format. I am relatively
new to Python, but the following function just works (and it is quite fast,
at least I am contented with):

def readBinArray(file,rows,cols,trans='nein',what='f'):
     f = open(file,'rb')
     #
     ergArray = array(what)
     n = cols*rows
     ergArray.fromfile(f,n)
     f.close()
     ergArray.byteswap()
     ergArray = reshape(ergArray,(rows,cols))
     if trans == 'ja':
          return transpose(ergArray)
     return ergArray

It is based on the Numeric-library (but this is not a condition; I just only
passed the array on to a DISLIN-plotting library, hence also the
transposing). Important here is "fromfile(f,n)" and "array(what)". You
should look after what you have to use in array() in order to create an
array dedicated to integers (e.g. 'f' means floating-point in Python
notation).

If your file is a Unix-file and you read it on Windows, maybe you should
also apply byteswap().

So, the above shows Python's strength . It seems the Python developers had
the better common-sense when it comes to "Python and the real world" (as
opposed to Clean and in the binary-specific case even Common Lisp*).

S. Gonzi
*Surely, Common Lisp programmers believe that they are God, and God dictates
what you may and what not. All the Gods decided we just only use ASCI-files.
There is only one caveat: my NASA-binary-satellite-data-files do not care on
ASCI-files. Please, no suggestions like: "But you can do it  in Lisp with a
little bit investment on work". Okay, agreed, but then the Lisp fanatics
should stop accusing Python or Perl,...infinitely (until Cantor says: Lisp
fanatic stop, you are reaching God's realm).






From mats at laplaza.org  Fri Mar  1 19:22:58 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:22:58 GMT
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
Message-ID: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org>

Note: this is not a Python question per se.

I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
(highlighted in some way). The wiki style doesn't seem to quite do it,
as the core document is not protected. I haven't found much in web
searches, and nothing where the software seems to be free.

I'd of course love it if this were done through Python since I'm on a
bit of an advocacy kick...but in the end it doesn't matter much.
Anybody know if anything like this is happening in any of the web
services projects? 


Mats Wichmann



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 23 18:14:00 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 00:14:00 +0100
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.1016859396.28725.python-list@python.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:

> >On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:59:15PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> >> 
> >> To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
> >> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.
> 
> Is the source for this available?

It's in the CVS.

Regards,
Martin


From boud at valdyas.org  Thu Mar  7 10:25:43 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:25:43 -0100
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <a5415304.0203042144.805e13@posting.google.com> <3c848d1a$0$90054$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <a5415304.0203060452.3ae79ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c876b3b$0$24833$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>

Ron Stephens wrote:

> I have just ordered both Black Adder, Personal edition plus one year
> of updates, as well as your new book, GUI Programming with Qt: Python
> edition.
> 

Balm to the heart of an authors whose last computer has just gone up
in smoke...

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Sun Mar 10 12:29:36 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:29:36 -0800
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C8B9800.8040302@bigfoot.de>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> If I did, couldn't I make all of
> "my" apps look in the same place for "my" DLLs? I really hate
> the idea of my app putting things in "system" directories.

Sure you can. Just append to the PATH a directory where all your DLLs 
go. This is of course best done with the installer. Here's a description 
of how Windows searches for DLLs:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/_core_The_Search_Path_Used_by_Windows_to_Locate_a_DLL.asp

Gerhard




From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Wed Mar  6 18:27:42 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:27:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015375883.14660.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8d9fe.q8j.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:50:10 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>    Since both 1e-200**2 and 1e200**2 produce the same errno all the time,
>>    but Python still raises OverflowError for 1e200**2 when linked with
>>    -lieee, there must be a separate mechanism at work.
>
> ... What differs is when
>platform pow(x, y) does not set errno.  In that case, Python synthesizes
>errno=ERANGE if the pow() result equals +- platform HUGE_VAL.

Thanks!  Thanks!  Thanks!  That's exactly what I was looking for.  The
OverflowError was produced by the line commented out below:

	errno = 0;
	PyFPE_START_PROTECT("pow", return NULL)
	ix = pow(iv, iw);
	PyFPE_END_PROTECT(ix)
	  /*Py_SET_ERANGE_IF_OVERFLOW(ix); */
	if (errno != 0) {
		/* XXX could it be another type of error? */
		PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_OverflowError);
		return NULL;
	}

With this little change, I got the following answer consistantly:

>>> 1e200**2
inf
>>> (1e200*1j)**2
(-inf+nanj)

instead of the inexplicable:

>>> 1e200**2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')
>>> (1e200*1j)**2
(-inf+nanj)

>
>>  What is that and how can I override it?
>
>Sorry, you can't override it.

I just did.  So I guess I must have been communicating terribly.  But
anyway, all is fine and the sun is shining now.  :-)

Why do I want this?  I believe it is impossible for computation to carry its
own numerical analysis without prohibitive cost (think interval computation
in the 1970s).  If the user knows his numerical analysis, you don't want to
short circuit him, and if he does not, it's hopeless anyway.  Overflow error
should only be raised when the return value is out of bound AND not
represented by well defined out of bound values such as inf and nan.

I'm not going to write any lengthy rationale for this, as my itch has been
scratched.  The following example illustrate my point (Consider: How do you
know that y=x**2 is not used in exp(-y)?  And what should happen if this is
inside a matrix where you don't want try/except for each element?  Answer:
you can't.  Numerical analysis in general can only be performed globally.)

>>> from math import exp
>>> def f(x): return exp(-x**2)
... 
>>> f(1)
0.36787944117144233
>>> f(5)
1.3887943864964021e-11
>>> f(1e100)
0.0
>>> f(1e200)
0.0

versus

>>> from math import exp
>>> def f(x): return exp(-x**2)
... 
>>> f(1)
0.36787944117144233
>>> f(5)
1.3887943864964021e-11
>>> f(1e100)
0.0
>>> f(1e200)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in f
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')


Hauiyu


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 10 15:52:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 21:52:45 +0100
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102138400.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <m3henoqh5u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:

> Is there a way to disable all assert statements inside a module,
> and without calling python with -O switch?

You can set __debug__ to 0 on the module level; this will disable
assert statements inside this module.

Regards,
Martin


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 18:42:10 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:42:10 -0800
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
In-Reply-To: <3CA3AA98.2F94398B@activestate.com>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net>
	<j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com>
	<slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
	<3CA3AA98.2F94398B@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <20020328154210.037caf5e.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:43:20 -0800
David Ascher wrote:
> May I suggest that you instead do:
> 
> >>> class MyClass:
> ...     def do_this(self):
> ...             "this function would do this"
> ...     def do_that(self):
> ...             "while this function would do that"
> ...
> >>>
> 
> and use the docstrings as a placeholder for the actions of the function
> -- typically something that's foremost in your mind when you're
> pseudocoding, and it counts as a statement as far as the parser's
> concerned (hence is syntactically valid), and at the same time, you've
> already got docstrings ready for  you when you start to implement.

Phil is trying to avoid having to backspace 4 times to delete a pass
statement.  Why the hell would he want to type in an entire docstring???


 ;)


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 16:17:34 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:17:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dictionaries in Lists
In-Reply-To: <ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020306131734.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 06-Mar-2002 Avi Homes wrote:
> I was attempting to make a list of dictionaries, which to me feels like the
> C equivlant of an array of structs, kind of. anyway, after making a
> dictionary and putting some values into it, and trying to append it to a
> list, python is not liking this. Am I approaching the idea the wrong way? i
> would like to keep the data organized as dictionaries.. the code looked
> something like
> 
> Info{'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah}
> Listing=[]
> Listing.append(Info)
> 

Seems to work here.  What fails for you?

>>> d = {'Foo':1, 'Bar':8}
>>> d
{'Foo': 1, 'Bar': 8}
>>> l = []
>>> l.append(d)
>>> l
[{'Foo': 1, 'Bar': 8}]
>>> l[0]
{'Foo': 1, 'Bar': 8}
>>> l[0]['Foo']
1
>>> y = {'Foo':3, 'Bar':12}
>>> l.append(y)
>>> l
[{'Foo': 1, 'Bar': 8}, {'Foo': 3, 'Bar': 12}]
>>> l[0]
{'Foo': 1, 'Bar': 8}
>>> l[1]
{'Foo': 3, 'Bar': 12}




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 08:56:17 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:56:17 +0000
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com> <slrna8o03d.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C8C02B3.674898B0@engcorp.com> <3C8C0460.993A4F81@engcorp.com> <slrna8r2ap.343.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <3C8D9956.5920AA52@engcorp.com> <eppstein-7C9771.22254611032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8s281.5vj.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:25:46 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>In article <3C8D9956.5920AA52 at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>> Resulting in a grand total Crackpot Index of about 3471, surely
>> an all-time record.
>
>I guess you haven't seen some of the more persistent math and physics 
>crackpots.  This guy came, didn't get a lot of support, and went 
>quickly, without destroying the newsgroup for months or years.  Much 
>less of a waste of bits...

I wonder what it is about maths and physics that attracts crackpots.

Python people are (mostly) more sensible.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From fdrake at acm.org  Sat Mar 30 11:07:36 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:07:36 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
	<m3ofh6s2ux.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15525.58056.566073.884317@grendel.zope.com>

Guido van Rossum writes:
 > You've been staring at standards too much, haven't you?  The
 > difference between MUST and SHOULD isn't as clear-cut as most
 > standards people use them.

Most standards define MUST and SHOULD very specifically, and then use
them according to those definitions.  There's an IETF RFC specifically
for use in writing RFCs, allowing those terms to be defined by
reference.  A number of W3C specs seems to be using this
definition-by-reference as well, with the same RFC providing the
actual definitions.

I think we'd do well to accept a specific definition of these terms
and use them consistently, simply to make our documentation (including
docstrings) easier to understand.


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fdrake at acm.org>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 12 17:17:16 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:17:16 GMT
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015957103.25893.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8E7E90.6000608@skippinet.com.au>

Michael Chermside wrote:
> Um... look folks. We can all point at the article and laugh, but some 
> people appear to be confused about what is and what isn't intended to be 
>  taken with a <wink>. So let me state a few facts quite clearly, with no 
> sarcasm (or humor) intended.

Let me state first of all that I took the original post in the manner 
which it was intended.  From my POV, any publicity is good publicity. 
To my mind, having a fairly large headline "Charmed by the Python" in 
the 2 most respected newspapers in Australia (Sydney and Melbourne 
broadsheets) is a nice coup.  I certainly saw the humour in both the 
newspaper article, and the newsgroup posts, so worry not.

The article was not 100% accurate.  One 30 minute phone call, and this 
article appears.  The book I am working on now is *not* Python for .NET, 
but just .NET.  Python doesn't get much of a mention :(

And-what-is-wrong-with-being-a-pariah-anyway ly,

Mark.



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 27 22:31:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 03:31:45 GMT
Subject: instrumenting Python code
References: <15521.50103.968819.131319@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270752550.19847-100000@ns0.tbye.com> <mailman.1017244148.8383.python-list@python.org> <a7trj3$sq1$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1017279954.11135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7u2r1$hk4$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:46:32 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>    >>> import hotshot
>    >>> hotshot.Stats
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Stats'
>
>My apologies.  I was typing from memory.  Should have been
>
>    import hotshot
>    profiler = hotshot.Profile("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
>    profiler.run("main()")
>    profiler.close()
>    import hotshot.stats
>    stats = hotshot.stats.load("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
>    stats.print_stats()
>
Thanks. That seems to work. Sorry to be lazy about it ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From altis at semi-retired.com  Fri Mar 22 15:38:53 2002
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:38:53 -0800
Subject: ANN: PythonCard 0.6.4
Message-ID: <QCMm8.141$a47.70027@news.uswest.net>

Apologies for the belated announcement. I was on the road the last two weeks
and emailed to c.l.py.announce, but forgot to post to c.l.py.

ka
---
This release includes walkthroughs to get you started with PythonCard, an
improved layout editor (resourceEditor sample), and new samples that use
SOAP and XML-RPC (Blogger API).

All the information you need about PythonCard can be found on the project
web page at:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

You can download the latest release at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=19015

For a list of the samples that have been built with PythonCard and some
screenshots of them in action go to:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples.html A description of each sample
is included in the readme.txt file in each sample directory.

The kind people at SourceForge host the project:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncard/

If you want to get involved the main contact point is the Mailing list:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users

PythonCard requires Python 2.1.x or later and wxPython 2.3.2.1 or later and
runs on every platform those are available for. wxPython can be downloaded
at http://www.wxpython.org/

ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis at semi-retired.com




From tony at lsl.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 04:28:03 2002
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:28:03 -0000
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
In-Reply-To: <86n0xmg2q4.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>
Message-ID: <009001c1c4f1$377484b0$545aa8c0@lslp862.int.lsl.co.uk>

Definitely off topic, but...

Tim Legant wrote:
> Oh, are you from across the pond?  It was either Bronski Beat or the
> Communards who did an interesting cover of Ain't Necessarily So in the
> early '80s - I think both groups were Brits....  It's in more of a
> Broadway musical style than country, though.

I'm not sure which side of the pond Tim is from, so I'm not sure that
helped...

Anyway, the song "It ain't necessarily slow" is from George Gershwin's
Porgy and Bess (see, for instance
http://www.operaheb.co.il/operas/arias/porgy5.html).

Jimmy Somerville (who is from Glasgow, which is in Scotland, and was at
the time in Bronski Beat - later on he was indeed in the Communards)
does indeed cover this - it's on the album The Age of Consent, and also
on his singles album.

I have no reason to think that Jimmy Somerville programs in Python,
though...

Tibs

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
Give a pedant an inch and they'll take 25.4mm
(once they've established you're talking a post-1959 inch, of course)
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)





From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Mar 12 02:34:08 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:34:08 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <7CWi8.104549$aFN.34864@news1.bloor.is> <tG4lQQEsZSj8EwU7@[127.0.0.1]> <3C8D8B52.FAB4E102@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <g8cr8u0ebucmot04gc4jlqbqpvavnuf5rr@4ax.com>

>> >seems a lot people recommend C over C++,...

C is quite a bit less complicated than C++, although
it's painful not having an easy way to do inheritance
or virtual functions. Templates are nice in theory,
although C++ template syntax is simply atrocious.

C//



From r.salz at verizon.net  Mon Mar 18 17:27:02 2002
From: r.salz at verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:27:02 GMT
Subject: Need maintainer for wizard.py
Message-ID: <3C9669B9.70105@verizon.net>

Is anyone interested in taking over wizard.py, a module built on top of 
TKinter that makes it easy to write MS-style "wizards"?  For details see 
http://www.zolera.com/opensrc/wizard/index.html (although that describes 
1.4, not 1.5 which has some minor API cleanups).

Please send me mail if so.
	/r$



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 21:42:59 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:42:59 +0100
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
Message-ID: <20020314024259.GA24728@lilith.hqd-internal>

I have two lists of files (approx. 50000 entries). Now I want to have all the
entries of list b, that are not in list a. However, the primitive:

results = []
for entry in b:
    if entry not in a:
        results.append(entry)

is terribly slow. I mean *really* slow. Any recommendations on how to optimize
this? Wouldn't it be nice if I could simply do b.removeall(a)?

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 7.5 ?C      Wind: 0.9 m/s



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 24 03:40:21 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 08:40:21 GMT
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1016945436.31630.python-list@python.org> <a7jqsg$3lr$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <a7k3dl$lt3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:11:58 -0700, "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:

>Tripp Scott asked:
>>can i generate this list:
>>
>>  [1, 1.1, 2, 2.1, 3, 3.1]
>>
>>with a list comprehension in a form of this:
>>
>>  [SOMETHING for x in 1,2,3]
>>
>>and without using side effects like this?
>
>There is no way with list comprehensions which is more
>elegant than the standard solution, which is
>
>result = []
>for i in 1, 2, 3:
>    result.extend([i, i + 0.1])
>
 >>> a = [x+y for x in 1,2,3 for y in 0,0.1]
 >>> a
 [1, 1.1000000000000001, 2, 2.1000000000000001, 3, 3.1000000000000001]

And to see the elements in normal individual print precision:

 >>> map(str,a)
 ['1', '1.1', '2', '2.1', '3', '3.1']

I guess that not quite what the OP asked for, i.e., it's

    [SOMETHING for x in 1,2,3 SOMETHING_ELSE]

but no way say no way ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter

PS. Anyone else getting weird mail quoting a post as bounced mail, saying (in part)
--
 > >Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; mail for taisha.hamete.org loops back to myself
 > >Received: from fuseki.hamete.org (fuseki.hamete.org [192.168.19.1])
 > >        by localhost.hamete.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F56EBD93
 > >        for <jd at taisha.hamete.org>; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:07:42 +0100 (CET)
 > >Received: from fuseki.hamete.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
 > >        by fuseki.hamete.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6591E98
 > >        for <jd at taisha>; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:58:24 +0100 (CET)
--
I emailed the whois-indicated owner and tech support, and got an automated reply
from the latter.


From anthony at ekit-inc.com  Mon Mar 11 19:43:25 2002
From: anthony at ekit-inc.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:43:25 +1100
Subject: PEP Parade 
In-Reply-To: Message from Tim Peters <tim.one@comcast.net> 
   of "Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:38:37 CDT." <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEMEOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net> 
Message-ID: <200203120043.g2C0hP931608@burswood.off.ekorp.com>

>>> Tim Peters wrote
> I expect PythonLabs will continue wrapping up bugfix releases in the 2.1.x
> series for as long as someone volunteers to produce them.  At the moment,
> 2.1.2 is the end of that line, as 2.1.2 was the last 2.1.x release to
> attract a volunteer. 

I've yet to see a bug that makes 2.1.3 seem a likely or useful upgrade.
There were a number of _critical_ bugs in 2.1.1 that made 2.1.2 useful.


-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never to late to have a happy childhood.




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 18:29:08 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:29:08 -0800
Subject: Symbolic imports and manipulation of the namespace?
References: <mailman.1017180521.5865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA10444.718AB646@ccvcorp.com>


VanL wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I was recently solving a problem which required that the config file
> (just a python file) lie outside of the pythonpath.  Is it possible to
> do symbolic importation of a module?

You might want to look at the __import__() function.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Mar  1 23:16:30 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 15:16:30 +1100
Subject: ASV module, CVS modules
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3wuwv1u5d.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "John" == John Machin <sjmachin at lexicon.net> writes:

John> Wow. You have two problems. Bill Gates has one. And one of
John> either you or Dave Cole will get busted real soon now if you
John> keep smoking that stuff :-)

I haven't smoked since I tried it as a young kid and threw up...

John> You and/or Dave in peril of the law: Last time I saw Dave's
John> module it didn't presume to read files at all, it expected you
John> to read lines and pass them to it one at a time. So either Dave
John> has had a very recent rush of blood or something worse to the
John> head and released unbeknownst to me a file-handling version of
John> his module, or you are gravely mistaken when you assert "I get a
John> similar message from CSV module".

No such luck on the rush of blood to the head thing.  I think you were
correct in your assessment of the problem.  Bill and his stoopid
backslashes are to blame.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 12:46:01 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:01 GMT
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Nothing evil here.  I have 2 reasons why I would do this program.  Firs, it
is my TCP/IP concept class's project.  Basically, I want to try what the
book tells in to code, but I notice it does not work the way it says in so
many commercial SMTP servers.  Second, I have been unemployed for about 4
months.  My friend's company needs a program to verify the users who
registered to their service.  They found out many registered users were
using fake addresses.  I just want to try this program to see if I will get
a job there.  That's all!  I really do appreciate if you would provide any
info for me to complete this project.

Thanks in advance!

Billy Ng

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001 at ruti.visi.com...
> In article <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Billy Ng wrote:
>
> > I am trying to write a python program to verify the email
> > address.
>
> What you're trying to do is pointless.  Whether it's evil or
> not, I don't know, but one is suspicious.
>
> Most servers either refuse the verify command or always return
> affirmative.  Many modern servers will accept RCPT for invalid
> addresses also.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did we bring
enough
>                                   at               BEEF JERKY?
>                                visi.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:59:41 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:59:41 -0500
Subject: How to get a key from  dictionary?
References: <mailman.1017094719.15578.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9FC7FD.A660C190@engcorp.com>

A wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key according to a
> value ?
> For example
> I have a dictionary
> 
> dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}
> 
> and
> dict['aa']
> is 1
> 
> But how can I for value 1 find out  key? (That is here  'aa')

If you've seen the other responses, you've learned about the issues.
One possible solution I haven't seen suggested is that you simply
populate two dictionaries, one for each direction.  This of course
works only if you have unique values as well as unique keys.

If you wrap the two dictonaries inside a class that handles the
hard work for you, you can make it appear that you have a regular
dictionary but which lets you retrieve in both directions.

-Peter


From Michael_Toldo at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 11 09:59:17 2002
From: Michael_Toldo at hotmail.com (Michael Toldo)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 06:59:17 -0800
Subject: Need Help in Plone
Message-ID: <acfd171b.0203110659.1768d514@posting.google.com>

I installed the newest version of Plone. But now I have to adapt it to
a cms. The different objects and the different templates make me
crazy. Can anybody tell me, where to get a usefull documentation.

Mick


From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Mar 27 18:31:23 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 00:31:23 +0100
Subject: Dealing with python version
References: <slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91DF574E6661cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Andrei Kulakov <ak at silmarill.org> wrote in 
news:slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak at ak.silmarill.org:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like if python1.6 or 2.0 are
> already installed and you install a newer version, python command 
> still points to the old interpreter.

on my debian linux box the path to /usr/local/bin is in an other 
position in PATH for user root that for normal users. this means
"python" points to 1.5.2 as root but to the current manually 
installed python 2.2 for users.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From max at malva.com.ua  Thu Mar  7 07:41:12 2002
From: max at malva.com.ua (Max Ischenko)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:41:12 +0200
Subject: C/C++ to Python translater
References: <5e8bd451.0203011049.5d12d3a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <85n76a.0fb.ln@cvs>

 kevin parks wrote:

> Is there a translator to automatically port (rewrite) code snippets
> from C or C++ to Python? I have some old C code that i have been
> porting by hand (well by head really) and i was wondering if there
> were any translation utilities that i could try. I imagine that this
> would be a monster AI undertaking, Btu with Python's powerful built-in
> types i am guessing c --> Python is easier than the opposite.

SWIG from www.swig.com



From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Mar  9 08:28:18 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:28:18 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Learning from imperfect lectures
In-Reply-To: <20020308070818.GA1112@isis.gerrietts.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203091559030.5927-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Geoff Gerrietts wrote:
>Quoting Peter Hansen (peter at engcorp.com):
>> Roman Suzi wrote:
>> >
>> > I do not remember who told me this, but it seems that students
>> > better learn from poorly constructed lectures than perfect ones.
>> > Because, they need to be _active_ in constructing their own system
>> > rather than _passively_ "eat" readymaid knowledge frames.
>>
>> Wow.  Deep... I like this (to me) completely new idea.
>
>This idea was new to me, too, in form but not in concept. Pedagogical
>coursework -- like the stuff they teach to new grad students who are
>going to be teaching assistants, or the stuff they teach to people in
>education programs -- frequently talks about how important it is to
>engage the student, and how involving them and making them think about
>the material is the teacher's primary task, with presenting the
>material actually being secondary.

I could continue on this and say that teachers who got only highest mark
at pedagogical college are often... bad teachers. And ones who had hard
time learning are (not as a rule, but noticebly) better.

Because they are nearer to the schoolchildren they teach.

We call it "3-mark effect" (I do not know how to translate it right) : in
Russia we have marks 2, 3, 4, 5, five being highest mark.

OK, world-class professors are better teachers than former 3-mark
student, but these are rare in usual schools.

That is why I am poor teacher: I know the subject, but am a pathological
5-marker ;-) And I left teaching some time ago.

>The actual practice of an "imperfect presentation", though, is
>something I'd not considered before -- the idea of leaving blanks for
>the student to fill in is both appealing and a little alarming.

I remember how I was shocked with printed lectures of some western
university: they were _perfect_. They were easy to grasp but I had a
feeling that they beautify the picture (dumb it down). In our universities
we usually write lectures (conspects) manually. So, their presentation is
less than perfect.

>> Anyone know where it came from?  References to a study or something?
>
>> strong interest in the audience ahead of it (and after).  The
>> presentation struck me at the time as being _very_ "polished", but
>> perhaps with too little unsaid for someone to question, or think
>> about.  I suspect this is the reason why it didn't seem to work.
>
>Interesting anecdotal evidence. I can think of several cases where
>I've felt somewhat the same way about presentations that I've given.
>It's often taught me and my audience both more if my presentation is
>struggling to hold together at the seams.

Some lecturers even allow errors to check attention of the
audience. And it works too.

In the estimation theory there are models where it is impossible to make
estimation of some values if inputs aren't noisy! The same is true in
genetics where mutations and selection make species stronger.

This means trial-and-error way is not unfounded.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, March 09, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "And now for something ruder..." _/




From bkc at Murkworks.com  Thu Mar  7 13:42:17 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:42:17 -0500
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3c864a78$1_3@news.newsgroups.com> <873czdnmqp.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <3c87b5aa_10@news.newsgroups.com>

"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote in message
news:873czdnmqp.fsf at tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp...
> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Clements <bkc at Murkworks.com> writes:
>
> I thought it was clear, although I haven't tried to apply it yet.
>
> (I'm a co-author)

Heh, greetings, funny meeting you here!

It's hard to tell which chapter you wrote.. or which picture is yours...




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From krissepu at vip.fi  Fri Mar  8 03:27:08 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (pekka niiranen)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:27:08 GMT
Subject: PARTIAL SOLUTION: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20 does not work
Message-ID: <3C8875FE.9030700@vip.fi>

First of all, thank you guys for your help.

I managed to compile Python 2.2 in HP-UX 10.20 with the following hacks:

1)    I downloaded and installed from http://hpux.connect.org.uk/ the 
following
    dynamically linked precompiled software depots:

     binutils                     2.11.2
     gcc                           3.0.1
     make                       3.79.1

    These all installed automatically into /opt -directory, since I used 
"swinstall -s" -command:

     swinstall -s make-3.79.1-sd-10.20.depot make

2)    I also downloaded from http://hpux.connect.org.uk/ HP's sources 
for ncurses-5.2

    HP-UX Source Code (gzipped) [HTTP] [FTP]
    (Size: 1.74 MB, Archived: 12 Jan 2001, View contents)

    and unzipped+tared it to a temporary directory.

3)    I removed HP's default compiler's location /usr/css/bin from my 
/etc/PATH -file
    and changed the link in /usr/bin to point to installed gmake:

     /usr/bin/make@ -> /opt/make/bin/gmake    

    I also added /opt/make/bin and /opt/gcc/bin to my PATH.


4)    I configured ncurses with the following script:

    #! /usr/bin/sh
    unset LANG
    TERM=vt100
    gmake distclean
    CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-shared --without-cxx 
--prefix=/usr/local --without-ada --without-debug     

5)    I edited the resulting Makefile in subdirectory 
ncurses-5.2/ncurses by adding the -fpic variable to line 96:

    CFLAGS_SHARED   = $(CCFLAGS) -fPIC -fpic

6)    I compiled and installed ncurses with commands:

    make
    make install

    My /usr/local/lib/ -directory:

    libcurses.sl@ -> libncurses.sl
    104294 Mar  8 08:41 libform.a
    102955 Mar  8 08:41 libform.sl*
    52572 Mar  8 08:41 libmenu.a
    49377 Mar  8 08:41 libmenu.sl*
    531110 Mar  8 08:41 libncurses.a
    595297 Mar  8 08:41 libncurses.sl*
    20948 Mar  8 08:41 libpanel.a
    20538 Mar  8 08:41 libpanel.sl*
    terminfo@ -> ../share/terminfo        

    My /usr/local/include/ -directory:

    60691 Mar  8 08:41 curses.h
       2825 Mar  8 08:41 eti.h
    16091 Mar  8 08:41 form.h
      10951 Mar  8 08:41 menu.h
       ncurses.h@ -> curses.h
    3434 Mar  8 08:41 panel.h
       3168 Mar  8 08:41 termcap.h
      36954 Mar  8 08:41 term.h
       2957 Mar  8 08:41 unctrl.h         


7)    Python-2.2 source I edited by adding line "int h_errno;" to 
Modules/socketmodule.c at line 161 just above the
    '#ifndef RISCOS' block:

    int h_errno;

    #ifndef RISCOS
    #include <fcntl.h>
    #else
    #include <sys/fcntl.h>
    #define NO_DUP
    int h_errno; /* not used */
    #endif
    #else                       

    
8)    I configured python with script:
    #! /usr/bin/sh
    unset LANG
    gmake distclean
    CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-threads=no --without-cxx 
--prefix=/opt/python
    gmake


9)    When running "gmake test", I still get error:

    test test_fpformat failed -- Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "./Lib/test/test_fpformat.py", line 51, in test_reasonable_values
        self.checkFix(realVal, d)
      File "./Lib/test/test_fpformat.py", line 28, in checkFix
        self.assertEquals(result, expected)
      File 
"/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Lib/unittest.py", line 
286, in failUnlessEqual
        raise self.failureException, \
    AssertionError: '-0' != '0'


    And summary looks like:

    1 test failed:     test_fpformat
    33 tests skipped:
        test_al test_asynchat test_bsddb test_cd test_cl test_curses
        test_dl test_fork1 test_gdbm test_gl test_gzip test_imgfile
        test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale test_minidom
        test_nis test_ntpath test_openpty test_pyexpat test_sax
        test_socket_ssl test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_thread
        test_threaded_import test_threadedtempfile test_threading
        test_unicode_file test_winreg test_winsound test_zipfile test_zlib

    Ask someone to teach regrtest.py about which tests are
    expected to get skipped on hp-ux10.
    make: *** [test] Error 1

10)    After gmake install python starts OK. Maybe it is OK now ;).

-pekka-



From idot at vt.edu  Tue Mar 12 23:13:23 2002
From: idot at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 20:13:23 -0800
Subject: Is there a good reason why we cannot (as of 2.1.1) deepcopy complex objects?
References: <e395b886.0203120834.3cc1eb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e395b886.0203122013.543459b8@posting.google.com>

idot at vt.edu (Carl Banks) wrote in message news:<e395b886.0203120834.3cc1eb7 at posting.google.com>...
> Strangely, I've found no mention of this anywhere: the docs, the
> Python FAQ, or the Google archives.


And to clarify, I mean complex number objects....


-- 
CARL BANKS


From joejava at dragoncat.net  Sat Mar 30 01:19:28 2002
From: joejava at dragoncat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:19:28 -0500
Subject: Data type ideas
Message-ID: <004701c1d7b2$dbbf9180$a2a1d6d1@x9k7y2>

HI all, got a new problem :)

I have a tab delimited file of people plus a list of groups they belong to like so:

Person 1  Group A
               Group B
Person 2  Group B
Person 3  Group A
               Group C

So basically a person can be part of one of more groups.  I'm looking to process this list so that I can take each group and examine the list of people in it.  Basically turn the list into:

Group A Person 1
             Person 3
Group B Person 1
             Person 2
Group C Person 3

The drawback I have to all this is, the file I'm working is pretty big: about 40 megs. A majority of the file is going to be extraneous data that I have weeded out with regular expressions but it is still a large data file.

My first (naive) approach was to just create a Dict type using the name of the group as a the key and for the value a list of people. I learned that due to the overhead, that was going to take alot of memory and processing time.

It would look something like this:

{"Group A" : ["Person 1", "Person 3"], 
 "Group B" : ["Person 1", "Person 2"], 
 "Group C" : ["Person 3"]}

My next idea was what about references?  Maybe create a list of people and a Dict as above with a list of references to the list of people.  But as I learned you can't do references to simple data objects (like a subscript of a list).  I could be wrong but thats what I gathered.  I tried using a list of integers for the value of the Group Dict, "pointing" to the list of People:

{"Group A" : [0, 2],
 "Group B" : [0, 1],
 "Group C" : [2] }

["Person 1", "Person 2", "Person 3"]

This helped a little but obviously not much since it isn't much of a change from what I've had before.

So what next?  Any ideas that I can use?  

Thanks
Joel

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From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 02:34:26 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 08:34:26 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014954122.461.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3pu2og2rh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:

> > Java does accept iso-latin-1 files as input. In fact on my machine (Mac
> > OSX) it doesn't even accept utf-8 files with the utf-8 signature. And
> > strings containing utf-8 are interpreted as just 8-bit characters, meaning
> > every byte is a character.
> 
> Oh!  Yes, it works this way on Windows, too.  javac assumes source
> files are latin-1, and System.out.println() encodes output in latin-1.

That is not completely true. javac has the -encoding command line
which allows you to specify the source encoding; this defaults to the
platform default encoding (which probably was latin-1
resp. windows-1252 on your systems).

> I'm referring to this paragraph in Martin's original post:
> 
>   The only problem with this approach is that encodings where " or '
>   could be the second byte of a multi-byte character cannot be
>   supported as a source encoding. Python supports no such encoding
>   in the standard library at the moment, anyway, so this should not
>   be a problem.
> 
> \x22 is a double-quote mark.  Martin is a little off on the last
> bit, though; UTF-16 can produce \x22 bytes.

Right. Source encodings (atleast under the initial implementation)
need to be an ASCII superset (in the sense that source code that uses
only ASCII characters is ASCII-encoded); I see no way to allow UTF-16
as a source encoding.

Regards,
Martin


From oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl  Tue Mar 19 05:58:46 2002
From: oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl (Pawel Oleksik)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:58:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [wxPython 2.3.1] what's going on?
Message-ID: <a775l6$kro$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>

Hi Snakes Tamers!

Playing with wxPython modules I've found something -- perhaps bug.
Importing from wxPython.wx changes the calculation rules.
Here is an example (strictly based on the random.py self-verification):

(Linux, glibc-2.2.5, wxGTK-2.3.1, wxPython-2.3.1)


Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 26 2001, 02:52:19) 
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import math
>>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
1.7155277699214135
>>> from wxPython.wx import *
>>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
2,8284271247461898

Has anybody met this problem, or it's just my 'private reslult' :)

best regards
p.o.



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 20:54:59 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:54:59 +0000
Subject: The IDE is important too [was Develop-test-debug cycle]
Message-ID: <crnn9u4gf5ferfvhrp4o5ddjcob2ila7s6@4ax.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>
>Yes, and we're not going to fix it <wink>.
>
I don't think you should dismiss it so flipantly and readily - unless
you see Python as a toy language for small scripts and noddy programs.

The large systems that we are writing take a while to crank up. To
have to shut them down, fix the bug (if it was obvious) or add some
debugging code (if it wasn't), then crank them up again, is a
significant time overhead.

It seems to me that the development environment has been seriously
neglected in the rush to add sexy new features to the language.

Microsoft, Borland and the like realised a long time ago that a nice
IDE makes a huge difference to programmer productivity - even if the
language is crap. Consider this: without the IDE, would anyone have
given VB a second glance?

I don't want all the frils of VB - PythonWin is almost there but - and
I'm guessing here - it is limited by the language runtime environment.

It would be an enormous help if the runtime environment had debugger
hooks that could preserve program state in the event of an untrapped
error, then allow any of:

1. statements to be executed interactively in the current context;
2. execution point adjusted forwards or backwards (with obvious
restrictions)
3. continue execution;
4. program reset to initial entry conditions - including terminating
any threads.

You can already do 1. at breakpoints in PythonWin so some of the hooks
are there.

If you could fix all these four requirements, I reckon you could more
than quadruple my productivity on large projects.


--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From samschul at pacbell.net  Sat Mar 30 21:05:04 2002
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 18:05:04 -0800
Subject: ANN: SCSIPyTOOLS  a library of Python tools to test SCSI and IDE disk drives
Message-ID: <d7fcf8b4.0203301805.1096c47e@posting.google.com>

I have posted the combined ASPI and SCSIPASSTHROUGH libraries for
Python at the following URL: 
http://starship.python.net/crew/samschul/

This release supports Python version 2.2 only. Future releases will
follow the updates to the Python Library's. the main features of this
open source release are:

1) Any machine the supports ASPI will execute the ASPIPy libraries.
2) All Windows maxhines WindowsNT -> WindowsXP that support the
SCSIPASSTHROUGH interface will execute the SCSIPy libraries.

3) Both libraries are available at any time or together under python
for example issueing the following Python commands will interface to
either library:

ISSUE COMAMND TO START SCSI 
>>> import scsi as Scsi
scsi.py
Copyright 2002 by Samuel W. Schulenburg
13555 Colony Ave.
San Martin Calif.
USA
samschul at pacbell.net
SCSI Python library loaded verson:  scsi.py 0.9  03/20/03
Type help for command line help functions, or use IDLE help menu
File SCSI0.log allready exists: Do you want to append or delete A/D d
SCSIPython    Version 0.9 03/19/2002 
 
Windows high performance clock detected  
File SCSI1.log allready exists: Do you want to append or delete A/D d
SCSIPython    Version 0.9 03/19/2002 
 
Windows high performance clock detected  
File SCSI2.log allready exists: Do you want to append or delete A/D d
SCSIPython    Version 0.9 03/19/2002 
 
Windows high performance clock detected  
----Device Characteristics--- 
Claimed         = 1 
DeviceID        = 0 
DeviceInquery   = Maxtor 94098U8          FA50 
DeviceName      = \\.\Physicaldrive0 
DriverName      = atapi 
TID             = 0 
LUN             = 0 
MaxLBA          = 80041247 
SectorSize      = 512 
------------------------------ 
----Device Characteristics--- 
Claimed         = 1 
DeviceID        = 1 
DeviceInquery   = Maxtor 53073U6          DAC1 
DeviceName      = \\.\Physicaldrive1 
DriverName      = atapi 
TID             = 1 
LUN             = 0 
MaxLBA          = 60030431 
SectorSize      = 512 
------------------------------ 
----Device Characteristics--- 
Claimed         = 1 
DeviceID        = 2 
DeviceInquery   = SEAGATE ST118273N       6244 
DeviceName      = \\.\Physicaldrive2 
DriverName      = aic78xx 
TID             = 0 
LUN             = 0 
MaxLBA          = 35566479 
SectorSize      = 512 
------------------------------ 
The default DeviceID  will be 2 
Error Loging has been enabled: 
CDB 12 00 00 00 FF 00


SCSIPython    Version 0.9 03/19/2002
SEAGATE ST118273N       6244LP633950

NOW ISSUE COMMAND TO START ASPI

>>import aspi as Aspi
aspi.py
Copyright 1999 by Samuel W. Schulenburg
13555 Colony Ave.
San Martin Calif.
USA
samschul at pacbell.net
ASPI Python library loaded verson:  aspi.py 2.0  07/03/00
Type help for command line help functions, or use IDLE help menu
Host adapter driver = ATAPI 
Drives are attached 
Host adapter # 0 SCSI ID # 7 
Host adapter driver = ATAPI
Drives are not attached
Host adapter # 1 SCSI ID # 7
Host adapter driver = AIC78XX 
Drives are attached 
Host adapter # 2 SCSI ID # 7 
Select which host adapter do you want to use, Enter host adapter
number 2
 0   SEAGATE ST118273N       6244LP633950 
 1  Drive not present
 2  Drive not present
 3  Drive not present
 4  Drive not present
 5  Drive not present
 6  Drive not present
 8  Drive not present
 9  Drive not present
10  Drive not present
11  Drive not present
12  Drive not present
13  Drive not present
14  Drive not present
File SCSI0.log allready exists: Do you want to append or delete A/D d
ASPIPython    Version 2.3 01/20/2002 
 
Windows high performance clock detected  
CDB 12 00 00 00 FF 00


ASPIPython    Version 2.3 01/20/2002
SEAGATE ST118273N       6244LP633950


>>Scsi.io6r(0x12,0x00,0,0,0xff,0)
CDB 12 00 00 00 FF 00
(0, 65392, 144)
>>s.displaybuff(1)
Read Buffer Data = for drive #02 
      00 01 02 03  04 05 06 07  08 09 0A 0B  0C 0D 0E 0F 
      -------------------------------------------------- 
0000:|00 00 02 02  8B 00 00 1E  53 45 41 47  41 54 45 20   
........SEAGATE.
0010:|53 54 31 31  38 32 37 33  4E 20 20 20  20 20 20 20   
ST118273N.......
0020:|36 32 34 34  4C 50 36 33  33 39 35 30  00 00 00 00   
6244LP633950....
0030:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
0040:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
0050:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
0060:|00 43 6F 70  79 72 69 67  68 74 20 28  63 29 20 31   
.Copyright.(c).1
0070:|39 39 38 20  53 65 61 67  61 74 65 20  41 6C 6C 20   
998.Seagate.All.
0080:|72 69 67 68  74 73 20 72  65 73 65 72  76 65 64 20   
rights.reserved.
0090:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00A0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00B0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00C0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00D0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00E0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00F0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
  
>>Aspi.io6(0x12,0x00,0,0,0xff,0)
CDB 12 00 00 00 FF 00
(0, 0, 65536)
>>Aspi.displaybuff(1)
Read Buffer Data = for drive #00 
      00 01 02 03  04 05 06 07  08 09 0A 0B  0C 0D 0E 0F 
      -------------------------------------------------- 
0000:|00 00 02 02  8B 00 00 1E  53 45 41 47  41 54 45 20   
........SEAGATE.
0010:|53 54 31 31  38 32 37 33  4E 20 20 20  20 20 20 20   
ST118273N.......
0020:|36 32 34 34  4C 50 36 33  33 39 35 30  00 00 00 00   
6244LP633950....
0030:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
0040:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
0050:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
0060:|00 43 6F 70  79 72 69 67  68 74 20 28  63 29 20 31   
.Copyright.(c).1
0070:|39 39 38 20  53 65 61 67  61 74 65 20  41 6C 6C 20   
998.Seagate.All.
0080:|72 69 67 68  74 73 20 72  65 73 65 72  76 65 64 20   
rights.reserved.
0090:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00A0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00B0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00C0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00D0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00E0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
00F0:|00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00   
................
  
>>


Enjoy:
Samuel Schulenburg


From huckle at edsamail.com.ph  Sat Mar 16 21:00:57 2002
From: huckle at edsamail.com.ph (huck)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:00:57 +0800
Subject: why python for the academe?
Message-ID: <E16mPwz-0003o7-00@mail.python.org>

hello all,

i've been lurking for a while and am amused at how
many people in the list here use python for scientific
computing. why not matlab (or octave or scilab or whatever)?

wondering,
huck

__________________________________
www.edsamail.com



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 02:36:28 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Pérez)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:36:28 -0700
Subject: Numeric Python Installation woes
References: <m3elj6ocvs.fsf@mycomp.tky.hut.fi> <cf0ad9fb.0202280307.2951ec2c@posting.google.com> <2dg03lvk1q.fsf@james.hut.fi> <cf0ad9fb.0202282323.3340ca5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5nb21$jco$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

>
> Maybe you should re-install it (python 22) and get rid of the two old
installations.

Careful. The OP hasn't specified but from the symptoms I suspect he's a
victim of RedHat's completely ass-backwards python setup as of 7.2. He'll
majorly blow his system if he removes 1.5.

His best bet is to manually build 2.2, shove it into /usr/local/, and make
sure that gets found by his user's /usr/bin/env before 1.5. But NOT by root
and other system-level users (like those of certain daemons), those need to
see 1.5. He'll just have to play a few path games.

And complain to redhat for the mess they've made. Every other week there's
someone here totally (and justly) confused by their setup. I have yet to
hear a convincing argument from them justifying what they did. They could
perfectly have made it so that _their_ scripts find 1.5 first if they need
it, while allowing the user system default to be 2.x. But no, instead they
chose to make it difficult for users who aren't too savvy with internals to
safely switch to 2.x (if you simply change the global python link to point
to 2.x, you break lots of stuff).

Cheers,

f.




From kzaragoza at attbi.com  Tue Mar 26 23:25:44 2002
From: kzaragoza at attbi.com (Kris J. Zaragoza)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:25:44 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <slrnaa2il3.q8o.kzaragoza@localhost.localdomain>

In article
<5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82 at lp.airnews.net>,
Dean Goodmanson wrote:
>     Kris Zaragoza and others explain how to make your own use of MS SQL
>     Server with Python.
> 	 http://groups.google.com/groups?th=efccf3faf8d7eb11

Wow.  I never thought I'd see my name in lights!  (Those tiny little
pixels on my screen are lights, right?)

I feel special. :)

Even though my post is a bit old, let me just add that it still holds
true, even with SQL Server 2000.  Just one warning, though: If you are
having performance problems talking to SQL Server, use the profiler.
Take special care when using ADO; I've seen it do some really
horrendous stuff for what should be a simple stored procedure call.

> -- The Python-URL! Team--
> 
> Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
> sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.

Let me just take a moment to thank everyone involved in Python-URL!
This is, IMHO, a wonderful resource for this community.  I have found
it extremely useful in keeping up with things when extremely busy (as
I seem to have been all this year so far!)

Thanks again!

-Kris

-- 
Kris J. Zaragoza       | On the face of it, Microsoft complaining about
kzaragoza at attbi.com    | the source license used by Linux is like the
                       | event horizon calling the kettle black.
                       | -- Adam Barr, article on kuro5hin.org


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 10 13:50:32 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 19:50:32 +0100
Subject: Binary Register entries Question
References: <d7d5ebdf.0203101039.4e8ee7ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4pu2cnton.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

matthias_j at lycos.com (Matthias Janes) writes:

> I exported a Win NT register to a reg file like this.
> 
> [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TEST]
> "Password"=hex:b3,e8,85,f6,4d,9c,29,04
> 
> Now I'm not sure how to write binary Hex data with python.
[...]

> values = ...... I do not know how to use this for binary hex data

You need to use a byte string:

values = '\xb3\xe8\x85\xf6\x4d\x9c\x29\x04'

If you want to create the string dynamically, use the chr builtin.

Regards,
Martin


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 06:17:34 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:17:34 +0000
Subject: forgetting state
References: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cadr9u8ga972iieh0naiubrde1isultk99@4ax.com>

emersonwood at yahoo.com (Emerson Wood) wrote:

>Hi, how would I make a python interpreter
>shell forget everything that I've done
>and run a script or accepts commands as
>if it were first run?
>
>The reason I ask is that I'm running
>on Windows, and using the IDLE which
>keeps a Python shell up all the time.
>It would be natural to use that shell
>to test my program, but I'm finding 
>problems running it twice.
>
>-Emerson

This is a known, zero priority problem. See my recent posts on the
develop-test-debug cycle.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sat Mar  9 18:13:50 2002
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:13:50 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news>
Message-ID: <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
> 
> the round() function will sometimes return a predictable result, as
> in:
> 
> round(45.67891, 2)
> >>> 45.68
> 
> but sometimes it will return something like:
> 
> round(56.78923, 2)
> >>> 56.789999999999999
> 
> 2.1 and 2.2 both behave this way on two different (Windows) computers.
> What's going on here?

You are running into problems with the floating point representation
of numbers. You may want to look up how floating point numbers are
stored in computers. Search google.

What you will fins is that some numbers like 2, 0.25 etc can be 
represented exactly in floating point format while others like
2/3 cannot.

Thats just the way it is.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
BSD:  A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC
Berkeley or thereabouts.  Similar in many ways to the prescription-only
medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least,
more fun.)  The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution".


From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 10 09:00:12 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 06:00:12 -0800
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com> <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com>

"Patrick" wrote:
> This subset of PASKELL will be clean, beautiful and functional. 

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant 'beget a pretty monster' of an
application, not a language. The last thing I would want to do 
is waste time discussing a new hybrid 'PASKELL' language... 

Now I haven't attempted to actually combine the dynamic duo yet 
in a test app, but the idea is nonetheless intriguing: on the 
lines of using the Glasgow Haskell Compiler to turn certain 
charming algorithms in haskell into executables or COM servers, 
and then use python to glue the parts together with other parts 
using pipes, COM or whatever.

Now, I love python (my everyday programming language), and will
not give it up for the world: the way I see it, python introduces 
me to other parts of the CS universe that I would  surely not have
engaged if it wasn't for the language and its community -- jython and
java being a great example. Even so, one must admit that haskell is
a great window into the world of functional programming and no doubt
holds its own in terms of elegance.

A case in point is ye olde quicksort:

-- haskell quicksort (from the Prelude?)
qsort  []           =  []
qsort (x:xs)        =  qsort [y | y <- xs, y < x ]
                       ++ [x]
                       ++ qsort [y | y <- xs, y >= x]

# Nathan Gray's Python cookbook version
# http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66473
def qsort(L):
    if len(L) <= 1: return L
    return qsort( [ lt for lt in L[1:] if lt < L[0] ] ) \
           + [ L[0] ] \
           + qsort( [ ge for ge in L[1:] if ge >= L[0] ])
                   

Now if that ain't purrty I don't know what is...

So why can't I have my python and haskell too (-;
    
Sandy


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Mar 14 17:49:15 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:49:15 +1100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A20D@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Brad Clements [mailto:bkc at Murkworks.com]
> 
> "Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3C907711.4030004 at skippinet.com.au...
> 
> > But if I combine this with the fact that new .NET beta 
> releases often
> > breaks the Python compiler but I have only received 2 
> complaints in a
> > year, I concluded that interest is not yet high :)
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> 
> And .NET is expensive to actually deploy, and we're all cheap.

After all, why else would we use a *free* language with no restrictions ...
;)

While I'm here, I'd like to thank Mark for all the work he has put into the
Python community and for his valiant attempt to date to corrupt .NET into
something possibly worth using (for customers, not me ;)

Tim Delaney



From mxp at dynalabs.de  Fri Mar  8 15:40:50 2002
From: mxp at dynalabs.de (Michael Piotrowski)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:40:50 +0100
Subject: PARTIAL SOLUTION: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20
 does not work
References: <3C8875FE.9030700@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <x6pu2e4wtp.fsf@hyperion.mii.dynalabs.de>

pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> writes:

> 9)    When running "gmake test", I still get error:
>
>     test test_fpformat failed -- Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "./Lib/test/test_fpformat.py", line 51, in test_reasonable_values
>         self.checkFix(realVal, d)
>       File "./Lib/test/test_fpformat.py", line 28, in checkFix
>         self.assertEquals(result, expected)
>       File
>       "/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Lib/unittest.py",
>       line 286, in failUnlessEqual
>         raise self.failureException, \
>     AssertionError: '-0' != '0'

I've had a look at test_fpformat: The test expects that

   "%.*f" % (0, -0.003)

produces -0 (negative zero), but on HP-UX 10.20, this yields 0.  It
seems that, according to IEEE, -0 would be correct, and this is indeed
what you get on HP-UX 11.

This is basically a, ahem, property of the 10.20 libc; I don't think
there's anything reasonable one could do about it.  Also, apart from
the test, I'd think that this has any impact on Python.  If you need
the "correct" behavior, the best idea might be to upgrade to 11.

You might also want to have a look at

<http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x3f0ecb60e503d6118ff40090279cd0f9,00.html>

According to this posting, Solaris 7 and AIX 4.3 seem to behave in the
same way as HP-UX 10.20, so test_fpformat should fail on these
platforms, too.

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at dynalabs.de>


From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Wed Mar 27 04:08:15 2002
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:08:15 +0100
Subject: Build python under VS.NET
Message-ID: <vZfo8.80268$1S3.2547864@twister1.libero.it>

Hi all,
I'm trying, for the first time, to build the current python cvs under
VS.NET, in debug mode.
The problem is...

D:\cvs\python\dist\src\PCbuild>python_d
Adding parser accelerators ...
Done.
Python 2.3a0 (#29, Mar 18 2002, 12:06:07) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sre
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "D:\cvs\python\dist\src\lib\sre.py", line 97, in ?
    import sre_compile
  File "D:\cvs\python\dist\src\lib\sre_compile.py", line 13, in ?
    import _sre,sys
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (init_sre)
[9591 refs]

And so on with any subproject... like socket, sre, etc,etc...
Any hint?

Thanks in advance

Paolo Invernizzi
DMSWare.com





From timr at probo.com  Sat Mar 30 00:31:56 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:31:56 -0800
Subject: Unicode with win32com and makepy
Message-ID: <71jaau4q7m8ljplv7r9vrog529dibnf4s9@4ax.com>

Some time ago, I posted about a problem I was having accessing text fields
from an Access database using ADO via win32com.  I was getting an error
about characters with ordinals beyond 255.  Several suggestions were
offered, but none helped.

I dug in to this a bit more.  The problem can be traced into the Python
files generated by makepy.  I did a makepy on ADO 2.5.  About a third of
the way through that generated file, we find

    class Field(DispatchBaseClass):

which contains this:

         # str(ob) and int(ob) will use __call__
         def __str__(self, *args):
                 try:
                         return str(apply( self.__call__, args))
                 except pythoncom.com_error:
                         return repr(self)

If I try to fetch the contents of an Access field with an extended
character (e with an umlaut, in my case), the error happens in the "return
str(apply(..." line.  This is somewhat sensible, since it is being asked to
convert a character outside ASCII.

Several folks suggested I call unicode() to fetch the string value of the
field.  This does not work; the Field class does not contain a __unicode__
method, so Python calls __str__ instead, which fails.

My temporary workaround is to edit the generated Python (!) by adding a
__unicode__ method:

         def __unicode__(self, *args):
                 try:
                         return unicode(apply( self.__call__, args))
                 except pythoncom.com_error:
                         return repr(self)

Now, I can wrap unicode() around my field fetch, and it does fetch the
correct string.

Here's the question: what do we do in the long term?  Should makepy
generate a __unicode__ member every time it generates a __str__ member?
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar 25 07:07:11 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:07:11 +0100
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <just-A83F08.18481924032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <qxS77UAi$ln8EwGL@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <just-759C33.13071125032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <qxS77UAi$ln8EwGL at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
 Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> yes, but presumably abs is not the same as type(abs(1.2)) so this only
> applies to certain factories rather than all functions.

But of course: type objects are callable, but not every callable is a 
type object...

> So the question now is, how do I tell if __import__ is the built in one
> even if the import system is not fully initialized.

In any case not by comparing its type with type(open)... If you really 
can't import types.py at that point, comparing it with eg. type(abs) 
doesn't seem too bad.

Just


From jcosby at mindspring.com  Sun Mar 31 09:46:58 2002
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Jon Cosby)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:46:58 -0800
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <a877h5$ivl$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>

This is strange. I've added some lines to see where this is failing.
You can see below the interpreter is not detecting matches, but they
are there, and it is showing them. There is something in
word[0] == firstword[i] that's not right or the interpreter isn't
understanding. What could possibly be wrong with this?


################################################################
for word in words:
   for i in range(lword):
       if word[0] == firstword[i]:
           print "true"                        # Are there any matches
found?
           cols[i].append(word)

print len(words)
print cols


C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "hello"
4220
[[], [], [], [], []]

##########################################################################
l = []

for word in words:
   for i in range(lword):
      l.append(word[0] + ":" + firstword[i])
      if word[0] == firstword[i]:
         cols[i].append(word)

print len(words)
print cols
print l


C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "add"
502
[[], [], []]
['A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a',
'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d',
'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d',
'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a',
'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d',
'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d',
'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a',
'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d',
'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d',
'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a',
'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d',
'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d',
'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a',
'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d',
'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d',
'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a',
'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d',
'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d', 'B:d', 'B:a', 'B:d',
'B:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a',
'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d',
'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d',
'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a',
'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d',
'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d',
'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'C:a', 'C:d', 'C:d', 'D:a',
'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d',
'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d',
'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a',
'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d',
'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d',
'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a',
'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d', 'D:a', 'D:d', 'D:d',
...]


"Jon Cosby" <jcosby at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a82mlc$ja1$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> Can anyone se why this is coming up empty in the "cols" list? I've tried
> something similar in the interpreter, and everything here looks right. For
> some reason, it isn't finding any matches here.
>
> ########################################################################
> # WordSquare
> # Build word squares from initial word
> #
>
>
> # Word dictionary
> dict = "c:\data\dict.txt"
>
> firstword = input("Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): ")
> lword = len(firstword)
> words = []
> cols = []
> rows = []
>
>
> f = open(dict, "r")
> for line in f.readlines():
>  if len(line[:-1]) == lword:
>   words.append(line[:-1])
> f.close()
>
>
> for i in range(lword):
>  cols.append([])
>  rows.append([])
> rows[0].append(firstword)
>
> # Generate an array of words with matching first letters
> for i in range(lword):
>  for word in words:
>    if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found
>    cols[i].append(word)
>
> print len(words)
> print cols
>
> ######################################################################
>
> C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
> Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "hello"
> 4220
> [[], [], [], [], []]
>
> C:\Python21>
>
>
>
> Jon Cosby
>
>
>




From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Fri Mar  1 14:41:54 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:41:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

I've been following this discussion with quite some interest, but I do not
have the background to delimit the scope of various concepts.  Is there a
gentle introduction to a unicode-newbie?

On 01 Mar 2002 15:39:42 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>
>IMO, the Python source code parser should never see any text data[1]
>that is not UTF-8 encoded.  

Presumably this discussion only concerns unicode strings - I don't think
want to lose the ability to read in arbitrary binary data as a raw string.
But then you mention

>[1]  Ie, Python language or character text.  It might be convenient to
>have an octet-string primitive data type, in which you could put
>EUC-encoded Japanese or Java byte codes.  

What's the difference between this and a raw string (a byte sequence) that
you can translate into any other encoding?

Huaiyu


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Mar 15 12:46:24 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 11:46:24 -0600
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com> <MPG.16f93563d41b508f989696@news.mminternet.com> <23891c90.0203150820.6362868@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1BA0B611A94DFC68.31BB361E767CE89A.765E82A2856C9826@lp.airnews.net>

In article <23891c90.0203150820.6362868 at posting.google.com>,
Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.net> wrote:
>James A Roush <jar at mminternet.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.16f93563d41b508f989696 at news.mminternet.com>...
>> 
>
>[Handling relative and "rooted" links in Web pages]
>
>> This precisely what I'm looking for.  As someone else pointed out in another 
>> post, urllib should have this but, sadly, does not.
>
>The module I mentioned [1] doesn't attempt to handle more
>sophisticated URL types, such as...
>
>  http://user at somesite/somepath
>
>Indeed, a more generic URL parser really needs to be put into the
>standard library whilst retaining the simplicity that one tends to see
>in other "path" manipulation APIs (eg. os.path) - the world doesn't
>need another overcomplicated Java-like API to do the simplest of
>things. I wonder if mxURL might at least provide inspiration.
>
>Paul
>
>[1] http://www.boddie.org.uk/downloads/urlutils.py

>From what I've seen, cURL, or more properly libcurl 
<URL: http://curl.haxx.se/ >, has cornered the market
in being an efficiently coded library which properly
interprets the most recent URL standards.  Is Python
best served by support of pycurl?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Tue Mar 26 00:55:26 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 05:55:26 GMT
Subject: personel CDDB
References: <4a7fde99.0203251840.2aafdf58@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7p2ge$2haf$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <4a7fde99.0203251840.2aafdf58 at posting.google.com>, Ryan wrote:

> I'm thinking about writting a personel CD database that links into RDB
> so you can put in a cd and have python link to crdb and make a
> personel database to keep track of your cd's (and maybe rip mp3s from
> it and store them in the database to)  I'm wondering if many people
> would have an interest in this so I will know whether to just write it
> so it works, or write it the right way, (ie. pure python and a gui
> using anydb).  If it's just for me it won't be nearly as robust and
> will use a lot of win32 extensions (for speed).  If there is enough
> interest I may even post to source-forge.
> Thx
> Ryan

 I would think that at tool to query online CDDB and post to a 
 local PostgreSQL or MySQL (or any dbm) database would be useful.

 I'm not so sure about the idea of posting BLOBs (binary large objects)
 into the db, but that would be almost trivial as an option (in
 supported DBMSes).




From david at goodgirldesigns.com  Mon Mar 25 06:03:43 2002
From: david at goodgirldesigns.com (dc)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 03:03:43 -0800
Subject: zope/python devloper needed!
Message-ID: <7085ec43.0203250303.2eea14f2@posting.google.com>

We are looking for a zope/python developer to create a custom
application using zope/mysql and having it synchronize with Raiser's
Edge DB.

please only submit inquiries up until 3/29/02.

No phone calls or recruiters.

Thank you.


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 03:58:39 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:58:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: NameError assigning to class created in a function
References: <mailman.1016603731.25922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91D75A10E1EC9duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

[posted and mailed]

Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote in 
news:mailman.1016603731.25922.python-list at python.org:

> So, it seems that you can't assign to a variable in a class if it has the
> same name as the variable you are assigning from.  Except that it works
> outside a function:
> 

It seems to be a problem with nested scopes. If a variable is assigned to 
anywhere in the class statement, then the local value is used after the 
assignment, but the global value is used before. If a variable is not 
assigned to then the nested scope rules apply.

   def f(y):
      class Private:
         x = y
         y = 42
      return Private
   f(33)

Comment out the assignment to y, and this works (Private.x gets 33 from y 
in nested scope), with the assignment to y in place this raises NameError. 
So far this is pretty much what I would have expected: you can use the 
value of y from the nested scope only if y is not a local variable in the 
class scope (although I would have expected an UnboundLocalError rather 
than a NameError).

But, if you assign a global variable y=77 then Private.x gets 77 which 
definitely seems wrong.

I knew before that nested scopes didn't seem to work quite the way I 
expected with classes, but this definitely looks like a bug. Either classes 
should not do nested scopes at all, or they should do them consistently 
with functions.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 25 20:16:28 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:16:28 -0600
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
In-Reply-To: <3C9FAF96.5DE9A0@bgb-consulting.com>
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
        <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>
        <3C9FAF96.5DE9A0@bgb-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <15519.52204.972477.680449@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Don>   Are there any decent (finished/tested) Jabber libraries for Python?

Don't know what its status is, but there is jabberpy:

    http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 25 13:15:00 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:15:00 -0500
Subject: Random...
In-Reply-To: <sc9f71ee.015@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEIPOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[FREDRIK HULDTGREN]
> I want to generate random numbers, very large random numbers. If I use
> randrange() I get an out of bounds error since it only supports numbers
> up to (2**31)-1. However, I can use uniform(), but then I get the number
> returned in 7.9655120654553743e+018 or something simaler, and I would
> rather have it in a "L" format(796551206545537430183218312890381031L).
> How do I do this?

You don't:  you're looking for a miracle.  A uniform() has no more than 53
significant bits (the limit of a Python float on most boxes), and the
underlying Wichmann-Hill generator can't make more than about 45 of those
even arguably "random".  You can't magically increase the amount of
available randomness via multiplying by a large integer.

So you need a different approach.  Here's one:

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4406/fid/546




From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar 30 18:12:03 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 00:12:03 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a85go3$aou$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
...
>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:

As you seem more interested in votes this time around then in arguments:)
I'll try to restrict my self to yes and no anwsers.

>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

yes (I always missed it)

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

str(True) == "True"  (more readable at the interpreter prompt)

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'

definitely 'True' and 'False'

>     Minor additional issues:

>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1

no.

The first time I came across "days + isleap(year)" I found it higly
puzzling (I was raised with strict typing), but now that I'm used to
it I wouldn't want to loose it.


>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters

assuming its result can be used in integer expressions, it should
return a canonical truth value, so bool (preferably called 'truth')


-- 
groetjes, carel


From olc at ninti.com  Fri Mar 29 19:21:50 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:51:50 +0930 (CST)
Subject: Function problem
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203300945170.3950-100000@localhost.localdomain>

G'day:

Can someone tell me why this function stops printing after looping through
the <option> section, before </select> ? Everything prints to the browser
up to the last while loop, then from </select> there is nothing more.

I'm new to Python and tend to try to use PHP idioms too much, but I can't
see what is wrong here.

Also, am I using MySQLdb's c.close() correctly here? Any really bad Python
in this example?

----------
def ShowCats():
	print "<form action=\"http://olc.localdomain/cgi-bin/shopcat/shopcat.py\" method=\"post\">"
	print "<select name=\"cat\">" 
	db = MySQLdb.connect(user="abc",passwd="xyz",db="shopcat_db")
	c = db.cursor()
	query = c.execute("SELECT category FROM categories")
	while query:
		result = c.fetchone()
		category = result[0]
		print "<option value='%s'>%s</option>" % (category,category)
	print "</select>"
	print "<input type='hidden' name='action' value='showall'>"
	print "<input type='submit' value='SUBMIT'>"
	print "</form>"
	c.close()

---------
Thanks

MickA




From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Mar  1 15:51:50 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 21:51:50 +0100
Subject: Securely passing arguments when opening a pipe to a program
References: <3C7FE115.9832EE5C@olen.to>
Message-ID: <Xns91C4DEFFBFE68cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Joonas Paalasmaa <joonas at olen.to> wrote in 
news:3C7FE115.9832EE5C at olen.to:
> The problem is that the phonenumber string is not safe; it can even 
> be "000; rm -fR ~/*". How can I securely pass arguments when 
> opening the pipe?
> Is there a way to pass the arguments like in os.execv.

you could filter out any character that is not allowin in a phone 
number before passing the string but then you could also use:
... popen2.popen2("gnokii --sendsms %d" % long(phonenumber)

and you will get an exception on illegal phone numbers

chris


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From Didjit at myapebutt.com  Sun Mar 17 18:47:09 2002
From: Didjit at myapebutt.com (Didjit)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:47:09 GMT
Subject: Old File Purge Suggestions?
Message-ID: <1W9l8.176946$Dl4.19853391@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>

I'm New to Python....

I'm writing a little script to delete old files I back-up daily. I check
todays date w/the file date, if older then X amount of days, remove it.

I'm using sys.stdin.readlines(): getting the date passed in from from "ls -l" (linux). Then
compare dates using the mxDateTime module after shoving dates into a
format I can use. Am I on the right track or is there a better way to accomplish what I need.
Functions or other modulesI should be using.

TIA

Chris


From bkd at graphnet.com  Wed Mar 20 09:13:46 2002
From: bkd at graphnet.com (Bruce Dykes)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:13:46 -0500
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
References: <0c0601c1d002$26eef0f0$5102020a@graphnet.com> <20020320091021.A19383@ibook.distro.conectiva>
Message-ID: <0e6d01c1d019$76246120$5102020a@graphnet.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gustavo Niemeyer" <niemeyer at conectiva.com>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 07:10
Subject: Re: classes for fun and newbies


> > class call_record:
> >     def __init__(self, record=''):
> >         self.record_id=record[0:5]
> >         self.date=record[6:11]
> [...]
> > print call_record.record_id(log[1])
>
> Isn't it call_record(log[1]).record_id? If you're going to access
> many fields, you should probably save this instance in a temp variable
> (e.g. rec = call_record(log[1])) to avoid parsing it every time.

AHA! That should do it. I'll give it a go today. I'm glad my class code
seems to be okay. Now I have to add a pair of dictionaries to it...8-)

I'll likely be using no more than a half dozen as search/filter terms. But
that still means I'll have to read and search through the entire list at
least once. I'll have to define a search function in the code that can be
called as many times as necessary, and the temp variable will be local to
the function, simply returning a smaller dataset on each pass.

The only time I'll be interested in the total set  of fields is for display.

Thanks
And thanks to Emile and Tjabo, too...








From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 17 12:39:06 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:39:06 +0100
Subject: Python calling C with callback to Python - crash!
References: <eb636178.0203162055.58faa708@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j43cyz6qmd.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

wmistar at yahoo.com (Will G.) writes:

> Appreciate any help!

When you run the program in a debugger, what does the debugger say
where it crashes?

Regards,
Martin



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 08:05:59 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:05:59 -0600
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <3CA16839.1A21E36A@engcorp.com>
References: <1010a26.0203262213.4a0d4b11@posting.google.com>
        <3CA16839.1A21E36A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <15521.50103.968819.131319@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> I was wondering if there is an easy way to instrument Python code

    Peter> Among other things, you might want to check out the use of
    Peter> sys.settrace() (see the sys module) and the standard module
    Peter> 'profile' or the trace module included as
    Peter> python/Tools/Scripts/trace.py.

Or, in 2.2, the new hotshot module, which is a lot more efficient at
profiling than the profile module.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From Boris.Huart at mathworks.fr  Wed Mar 20 08:11:59 2002
From: Boris.Huart at mathworks.fr (Boris Huart)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:11:59 +0100
Subject: shared memory block
Message-ID: <3C988A9F.51137D54@mathworks.fr>

Hi,

I am trying to allocate a shared memory block from a python script so
that a Java applet can access the data shared. I have heard about the
Python/C API and using it I should be able to get a pointer to the
memory block but I have no ideas how it works and if the Java applet
will be able to read the data stored in memory from a pointer to the
memory block. On the other hand, there is the Win32 API in which shared
memory is implemented by file mapping but I just know about its name ;).

Any ideas about how to share the data from the Python script to the Java
applet ? (note : do not tell me about Jython the library used in the
Python script is precompiled and not "java usable").

Thanks for your help,

Boris



From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar 16 00:34:12 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:34:12 GMT
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com> <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1016218106.2021.python-list@python.org> <Cgsk8.17912$P4.1544592@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrna95mbc.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <Cgsk8.17912$P4.1544592 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, Billy Ng wrote:

> Yes, you're right!  I asked my friend the same question
> because I was doing that for my previous company, but they
> don't want to send a mail to the users.

That's the only method that actually works.  What your friend
is asking for is simply not possible.

> Second, again, I want to understand more about how the SMTP
> protocol works for my TCP/IP class project.

That's certainly a worthwhile goal, and you're acheiving it. 

What you've learned is that most servers have disabled or
short-circuited the features of SMTP that allow you to verify
the validity of an e-mail address.  :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'd like TRAINED
                                  at               SEALS and a CONVERTIBLE on
                               visi.com            my doorstep by NOON!!


From store_li at sina.com  Fri Mar  1 01:04:48 2002
From: store_li at sina.com (Ricky)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:04:48 +0800
Subject: Can use python to play MP3 file?
References: <a5llkf$8a75f$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de> <slrna7tdgp.113.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <a5n5ni$8e33n$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>

Thank you for you all! I means I want to play a MP3 stream using a local MP3
player, while, I'd like to play with transfer stream not download the whole
file to my hard disk and play it.

now, what shall I do? download a special application or use a special
proctor which some thing like http:// news://?

Thank you!
"Tim Hammerquist" <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:slrna7tdgp.113.tim at vegeta.ath.cx...
> Ricky <store_li at sina.com> graced us by uttering:
> > I hear that PHP can online play MP3 file. Is there any method that
> > can make me play MP3 by using Python CGI?
>
> If you mean an MP3 stream server written in Python, try edna
> <http://edna.sf.net/>.  It will serve MP3s in a stream to the client
> computer. (NB: it's up to the client to "play" the MP3, often through
> MIME associations in the browser.)
>
> If you mean you want an MP3 player written in Python, well, I don't
> suggest it. Processing MP3 data is very processor intensive and is
> often thought best accomplished with a compiled C program.  However,
> cymbaline <http://www.silmarill.org/cymbaline/> is a Python frontend
> to the (very pervasive) mpg123 MP3 player.
>
> You don't mention which OS, so I should mention, this is from a linux
> perspective. edna might very well work on Windows.
>
> HTH
> Tim Hammerquist
> --
> $ echo pizza > /dev/oven




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 24 12:42:40 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 17:42:40 GMT
Subject: about popen and gnuplot
References: <mailman.1016972795.7939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7l36g$scc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:27:57 +0800, yoast <yoast at whu.edu.cn> wrote:

>ZGVhciBhbGwsDQoJaSBoYXZlIGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgcG9wZW4gYW5kIGdudXBsb3QuDQoJ
>aSBnb3QgYW4gZXhhbXBsZSBmcm9tIEFTUE4sIHVzZWQgdG8gZHJpdmUgZ251cGxvdCB3aXRoIHB5
>dGhvbiANCm9uIF9fd2luMzJfX18gIHBsYXRmb3JtLiB0aGUgY29kZSBsb29rcyBsaWtlIGJlbG93
>Lg0KDQppbXBvcnQgb3MNCmY9b3MucG9wZW4oJ2Q6L3h4eC9wZ251cGxvdC5leGUnLCAndycpDQpw
>cmludCA+PmYsICJwIHNpbih4KSINCmYuZmx1c2goKQ0KDQoJaSBjYW4gc2VlIHRoZSBnbnVwbG90
>J3MgaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUgd2luZG93LCBidXQgY2FuJ3QNCnNlZSB0aGUgcGxvdCB3aW5kb3cuIHdo
>eT8gd2hhdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgZG9uZSB0byBtYWtlIGl0DQp3b3JrPyBpIHNlZSB0aGUgY29kZSBv
>ZiBnbnVwbG90LnB5IChhIHNvdXJjZWZvcmdlIHByb2plY3QpLA0KdGhlIGNvZGUgaW4gdGhhdCBz
>Y3JpcHQgaXMgYWJzb2x1dGVseSBzYW1lIGFzIG1pbmUgOigNCg0KYmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KeW9h
>c3RAd2h1LmVkdS5jbg0KMy4yNA0K
>
Above is what my news reader shows me from your message.
Public service base64 conversion:
_________________________________________________________

dear all,
        i have a question about popen and gnuplot.
        i got an example from ASPN, used to drive gnuplot with python
on __win32___  platform. the code looks like below.

import os
f=os.popen('d:/xxx/pgnuplot.exe', 'w')
print >>f, "p sin(x)"
f.flush()

        i can see the gnuplot's interactive window, but can't
see the plot window. why? what should be done to make it
work? i see the code of gnuplot.py (a sourceforge project),
the code in that script is absolutely same as mine :(

best regards,
yoast at whu.edu.cn
3.24
_________________________________________________________


I have yet to try gnuplot. Maybe someone else will help you now ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Mar  1 14:08:22 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:08:22 -0700
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019221514B@admin56.narex.com>

> From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu] 
> 
> In article <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote:
> 
> > Of course, if anyone actually cared about this syntax, we 
> would have a 
> > PEP with a pro/con section, so we wouldn't have to 
> reiterate the same 
> > arguments over and over again <wink>
> 
> I was starting to think it might be time to write a PEP,
> but then Tim's comment about how he dislikes iterating over 3 
> discouraged me.

I would still encourage you to write a PEP, especially if you think this
should be implemented instead of PEP 276. I believe even Tim can be
convinced by a superior argument -- besides it's not like we get to vote
on the PEPs anyway <wink>. 

-- bjorn



From joost_jacob at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 11:14:13 2002
From: joost_jacob at hotmail.com (J.Jacob)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 08:14:13 -0800
Subject: eval of a private attribute
References: <3C998F89.66DB1290@infomaniak.ch>
Message-ID: <13285ea2.0203210814.7287a5db@posting.google.com>

How to get to a variable hidden behind two underscores...
The get() method in this class returns a public or 'private' attribute
or None if no such attribute.

class CObsFile:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__user = "~briner/big/usr.rdb"
        self.public_user = "thatsme_public"
    def get(self, var):
        if hasattr(self, var):
            tobeEval = var
            p = getattr(self, var)
        else:
            try:
                tobeEval = 'self._CObsFile__'+var
                p = eval(tobeEval)
            except AttributeError:
                p = None
        return p

p = CObsFile()
print p.get('public_user')	# get a public attribute
print p.get('user')		# get a 'private' attribute
print p.get('nosuchuser')	# get a nonexisting attribute


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 14:39:56 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:39:56 -0800
Subject: number of lines in a file
References: <b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465@weber.videotron.net> <a81ufa$p2r32$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <slrnaa9b09.i04.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MPG.170e62e98ea81837989682@news.nwlink.com>

In article <slrnaa9b09.i04.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>, 
philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk says...
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:36:14 -0800, Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
> >Joseph Youssef
> >> hello, I am nwe to Python and I'm trying to write this 
> >> script but I need it to check how many lines is in 
> >> the file and I don't know how so I'm hoping someone 
> >> could tell me.
> >
> >len(open('/path/and/filename').readlines())
> 
> Alternatively:
> 
> os.system("wc -l %s" % filename)
> 

Except that this is platform-specific for *nix, whereas 
len(file.readlines()) works on all Python platforms.

-- 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 17:23:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 23:23:45 +0100
Subject: Code Review!! (or bash!)
References: <mailman.1015018624.24343.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3zo1slyfi.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gustavo Cordova <gcordova at hebmex.com> writes:

> "Once upon a time in a Python List far far away...", some one
> bitterly asked why python doesn't include an XML parser, since it
> relied on expat to do it's XML parsing for it.

PyXML provides xmlproc, a pure-Python, full-featured, validating
XML parser.

Regards,
Martin


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Mar 20 22:50:28 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 03:50:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <m3u1rb921x.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v.
Loewis wrote:
>mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:
>
>> - Magnus (who also is a bit baffled as to why distutils doesn't
>> include an "uninstall" command, such as the one implemented by
>> Thomas Heller.)
>
>That is not true. Both bdist_rpm and bdist_wininst do provide
>uninstallation support.

What I said was 'an "uninstall" command', which has nothing to do with
building packages or installers for other systems (such as RPM). I'm
talking about being able to do

  python setup.py install

and then later

  python setup.py uninstall

Assuming that the same script was used for installation, it seems that
Thomas's command (which he refers to as a hack ;) works quite
nicely... But I guess it might not be robust enough.

>Regards,
>Martin
>

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 10 22:31:45 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:31:45 +1300
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a69lml$b2v$0@216.39.172.122> <j84i8.2776$Ni.254846@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6bb3c$c5l$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3C8C2521.10B2D6D8@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> Would someone explain this:
> 
>  >>> eval("list(r'\x07')")
>  ['\x07']
>  >>> list(r'\x07')
>  ['\\', 'x', '0', '7']

The string literal you're passing to eval is
non-raw, so the \x07 gets interpreted before
eval even sees it. Try this instead:

   >>> eval(r"list(r'\x07')")

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Mar 16 07:43:01 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:43:01 +0100
Subject: Python-DB2 module and DB2 Connect
References: <3C90A125.4020208@stroeder.com> <3C90BF28.8080301@stroeder.com> <3C932F02.259AD2A1@wwc.com>
Message-ID: <3C933DD5.4090804@stroeder.com>

Steve Williams wrote:
> =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= wrote:
> 
>>Michael Str?der wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone here which had success with using DB2-Python-0.991 (see
>>>ftp://people.linuxkorea.co.kr/pub/DB2/) build against DB2 Connect?
>>
>>Seems to work. (DB2 Connect under Linux against DB2 OS/390 6.x)
> 
> With DB2 UDB EE 7.1 on AIX 4.3.3.1, Python 1.5.2 and DB2.py 0.991
> 
>     create table X(Y decimal(5,2), Z integer)
> 
>     cursor.execute("insert into X(Y,Z) values ?, ?",('123.45','10'))
> 
> fails with SQL0408N, SQLSTATE=42821, type mismatch.
> 
> However,
> 
>     cursor.execute("insert into X(Y,X) values cast(? as
> decimal(5,2)),cast(? as integer)",('123.45','10'))
> 
> succeeds.
> 
> The failing insert succeeds on Windows 2000 with mxODBC and ODBC
> connected to the same database.  The Windows CLI/ODBC settings don't
> seem to show any particular magic.

Does the SQL statement also work in the commad-line tool db2?

Well, I finally succeded after setting PATCH1=0 and PATCH2=0 in db2cli.ini 
and using SQL statements valid for DB2 OS/390.

Though I have to admit that I'm a RDBMS newbie just starting to get involved 
with DB2 for a rather simple project.

Ciao, Michael.



From danil at ultranet.com  Thu Mar 14 11:40:38 2002
From: danil at ultranet.com (Danil)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:38 -0500
Subject: Conditional Import
Message-ID: <MPG.16fa9c939672ccf62@enews.newsguy.com>

Is there a standard python idiom for coping with importing one of several 
libraries?

Right now, I've this hack in the middle of my code

try:
    from codeop import CommandCompiler
except:
    from MockCommandCompiler import CommandCompiler

But if I have to put up with a work around like this, I'd prefer that it 
be fairly elegant.  Or at least standard...


Danil
p.s. because codeop.CommandCompiler fails in 2.1, and I've yet to find a 
recipe that will get me to Win32 + Python 2.2 + pygtk.  That help would 
be appreciated too; I've been unable to find or build a _gtk.pyd that 
python22 will import.


From shredwheat at attbi.com  Tue Mar 26 11:40:58 2002
From: shredwheat at attbi.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:40:58 GMT
Subject: C API for modules
References: <3CA09F43.80206@erols.com>
Message-ID: <3CA0362A.7070309@attbi.com>

Edward C. Jones wrote:
> Is there some simple way to call functions in modules from C? In 
> particular, for module struct, how do I call pack, unpack, and calcsize?

more or less, something like this should do what you want...


int somefunc()
{
	PyObject *structmod, *dict, *calcsize;
	PyObject *result;
	int size;

	structmod = PyImport_ImportModule("struct");
	if(!structmod) return -1;

	dict = PyModule_GetDict();
	calcsize = Pydict_GetItemString(dict, "calcsize");
	result = PyObject(PyObject_CallFunction(calcsize, "s", "cbhqx");
	if(!result) return -1;
	size = PyInt_AsLong(result);

	Py_DECREF(result);
	Py_DECREF(structmod);
/*note, we only need to decref these. all the
other objects are borrowed references*/

	return size;
}



From Boris.Huart at mathworks.fr  Wed Mar 20 08:50:42 2002
From: Boris.Huart at mathworks.fr (Boris Huart)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:50:42 +0100
Subject: shared memory block
References: <3C988A9F.51137D54@mathworks.fr> <3C988C67.2010008@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <3C9893B2.53A8255F@mathworks.fr>

Well I am using a real-time system and I only have a Python library to get
about 20 floats calculated on the platform. Then I have implemented a Java
applet which needs those data to interact via an External Aauthoring
Interface with a VRML plugin embedded in IE. My problem is how to make the
python script and the java applet communicate together.

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Boris Huart wrote:
> > I am trying to allocate a shared memory block from a python script so
> > that a Java applet can access the data shared.
>
> This won't work. If it works at all, you'll have to use the C interface
> of both Python and Java. Using JNI in a Java applet, if at all possible,
> needs serious hacking of your Java and Browser environment.
>
> There sure is a very simple solution to your problem. Except we don't
> know what the problem actually is. So please try to describe it.
>
> Do you need to somehow communicate between a Python script and a Java
> applet? Then one of XML-RPC, SOAP, CORBA will do the trick. If you have
> complex data structures, AFAIK CORBA is best.
>
> Gerhard

--
Sinceres salutations,

Boris HUART                        [mailto:boris.huart at mathworks.fr]

____________________________________________________________________

  The MathWorks Consulting      Tel : 01 55 64 06 63
                                Fax : 01 55 64 06 64
  20 rue Troyon               Email : mailto:consulting at mathworks.fr
  92316 Sevres Cedex, France    Web : http://www.mathworks.fr
____________________________________________________________________




From bobx at linuxmail.org  Mon Mar 11 19:30:11 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 16:30:11 -0800
Subject: Learning  Python 2nd Edition???
References: <1001ff04.0203101710.46f27d85@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015870604.2130.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1001ff04.0203111630.be05445@posting.google.com>

David Ascher <DavidA at ActiveState.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015870604.2130.python-list at python.org>...
> Bob wrote:
> > 
> > Is there an "updated" Learning Python book in the works?
> 
> Yes.  Mark Lutz and I have started to work on it.  There's no precise
> (or even vague) date for it hitting the shelves though (so much has
> changed!).
> 
> -- David Ascher

Well that is cool! If you need a "beta reader" or someone to test the
code examples let me know.

Bob


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar  3 00:10:55 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 05:10:55 GMT
Subject: dirwalk.py generator version of os.path.walk
References: <mailman.1014959642.30993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5sb8v$f2j$2@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1014959642.30993.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:
>
>[Jim Dennis]
>>  I guess I'm just wary of recursion, particularly when I've read
>>  that Python doesn't support tail-end recursion.


> If I were Jim, I'd continue leaving recursion out of this specific
> application.  An explicit "todo list" trivially supports either
> breadth-first or depth-first traversal (a choice Jim explicitly mentioned as
> something he wants to control).  Calling it "a stack" is an illusion
> suffered by those blindly embracing recursion <wink>.

 Calling it a "stack" was actually a bad idea.  It's an aggenda or
 a todo list, that might be used as a FIFO or a stack --- or even 
 in some arbitrary order.

 However, it made the intent reasonably clear, even it it was a 
 tiny bit misleading.




From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 15:43:25 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 15:43:25 -0500
Subject: zipfiles module... read a file from archive
References: <mailman.1016499631.4885.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <83sn6vezrm.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Danny Pansters <danny at ricin.com> writes:
> I would like to know if reading from a zipfile is only possible by 
> reading its entrire contents in memory (the read() method of the 
> ZipFile class) or is there a way to do this, say, line by line.

I think you'll have to modify the ZipFile class.

> So, am I stuck with having every file in the zip archive in memory to 
> be able to write them to disk (would yield some limits just for 
> safety) or can I do it in chunks somehow?

You might consider using ulimits (setrlimit) for safety limits.  The
Python interface to ulimits is in the standard library "resource"
module.



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Thu Mar  7 09:09:52 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:09:52 -0600
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <005301c1c5e1$c1726e20$0101010a@local>

Ugly.  You state that code like this:

def somefunc():
    astring = """this is the first line
this is the second"""

... is ugly.  Fine, but IMHO so is the proposed syntax.

Recall always that the charm of Python is it's simplicity.  Even with the
new language features added in 2.1 and 2.2, a "bear of little brain" can
remember all the rules more or less at the same time.

I am against pasting and patching one after another new language construct,
syntax sweetener, etc. to Python because it detracts from that core
simplicity
each and every time.

This is why I am against incorporating the "$varname" interpolation
operator.
At least, IMHO it is not ugly.

There seem to be a never-ending stream of new language feature proposals.
Praise Guido they don't all get incorporated!

(Don't take this personally.  I've had my share of similar ideas; we all
think we are like Guido and can improve the language.  Learning to trust his
language-design skills was hard, but rewarding.)





From narnett at mccmedia.com  Thu Mar 21 10:33:39 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:33:39 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
In-Reply-To: <a7ci6a$2fqd$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJKEMOJLAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jim Dennis

[snip]

>  I don't know what you're really trying to do, but I decided to 
>  code up a quickie "word counter" for the hell of it.

Wow -- thanks.  I'm going to ask questions more often now!

Nick



From taw at dnaco.net  Sat Mar  2 16:44:34 2002
From: taw at dnaco.net (Tim Widowfield)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:44:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: pyperl -- Arrays to Lists? ...Tuples?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.10.10203021638290.5687-100000@picard.dnaco.net>

Greetings:

I hope I'm not missing something obvious, but here goes.  I'm calling a
Perl module from a Python script with the aid of pyperl.  Pretty much
everything works as expected, but functions with array return values keep
giving me strings in Python.  In particular, the string is the last value
in the returned array.

I've tried wrapping the function call with "tuple" and "list", but that
only causes the string to break itself up into individual letters.  How
can I force pyperl to understand I'm expecting an array of values and not
just a single string?  Has anyone seen this before?

Thanks in advance.


--Tim Widowfield, 
  taw at dnaco.net





From pms2 at insurancemail.net  Sun Mar 17 00:04:02 2002
From: pms2 at insurancemail.net (Power Mktg Solutions)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:04:02 -0500
Subject: The Ultimate Revenue Generator
Message-ID: <e1fd601c1cd71$27d82600$7601a8c0@insuranceiq.com>

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From christophe.delord at free.fr  Tue Mar 26 16:48:27 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:48:27 +0100
Subject: Most efficient unzip - inverse of zip?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203262231570.27212-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <3CA0ECAB.2070900@free.fr>

Hi,

apply zip again on the zipped list :


def unzip(l):
	return tuple(apply(zip,l))

a = (1,2,3)
b = (4,5,6)

ab = zip(a,b)
print "zip(a,b) =", ab
print "unzip(ab) =", unzip(ab)



zip(a,b) = [(1, 4), (2, 5), (3, 6)]
unzip(ab) = ((1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6))


unzip([(1,4),(2,5),(3,6)]) will compute zip((1,4),(2,5),(3,6))
zip can zip more than two lists :-)
and zip((1,4),(2,5),(3,6)) is (1,2,3),(4,5,6)


You can also use zip to transpose matrix.


Pearu Peterson wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> What would be the most efficient way to unzip zipped sequences 
> in Python 2.2?
> 
> For example, consider
> 
>  a_b = zip(a,b)  # where a and b are some sequences
>  a_b.sort()
>  a,b = unzip(a_b)
> 
> For a start, I have
> 
> def unzip(seq):
>   ns = range(len(seq[0]))
>   r = [[] for i in ns]
>   [r[i].append(s[i]) for i in ns for s in seq]
>   return tuple(r)
> 
> Is there any better algorithm for unzip?
> 
> Regards,
> 	Pearu
> 
> 


-- 
Christophe Delord
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar  3 17:32:20 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:32:20 GMT
Subject: new images from strings using PIL
References: <a5osud$nj1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov> <3C828D16.9020201@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <Uvxg8.22783$n4.4309128@newsc.telia.net>

"Max M" wrote:
> Your string would probably look a little like this:
>
> "GIF89aEUR
???!??&(?&(g(/&dg;"
>
> Well actually it wouldn't. But the general idea is that the string would
> be how an image file like a gif would look like if opened in a text editor.

not quite: the string should contain the *raster data* section
of that file, not the header information.  for a typical gif, that's
the entire file minus the first 792 bytes or so...

if you have read an entire file into a string, use

    im = Image.open(StringIO.StringIO(data))

</F>




From sameer_ at email.com  Wed Mar 13 16:36:05 2002
From: sameer_ at email.com (sameer)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 13:36:05 -0800
Subject: SWIG and python
Message-ID: <6bd9f01b.0203131336.24c93fa8@posting.google.com>

I've downloaded SWIG1.3.11, and 1.3.10 for linux from sourceforge, and
after installation, swig -version tells me that I am running SWIG1.1. 
Are the version #s just not updated or what?


From dman at dman.ddts.net  Mon Mar 25 17:59:01 2002
From: dman at dman.ddts.net (dman)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:59:01 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] How to get a key from  dictionary?
In-Reply-To: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost>
References: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020325225901.GB20910@dman.ddts.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 11:16:28PM +0100, A wrote:
| Hi,
| Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key according to a 
| value ?
| For example
| I have a dictionary
| 
| dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}
| 
| and 
| dict['aa']
| is 1
| 
| But how can I for value 1 find out  key? (That is here  'aa')

That is not how dictionaries are intended to be used.  It is possible,
with a little work and a few CPU cycles, to work backwards like that.
If you give more details regarding why you want to do this then
perhaps we can suggest a more efficient solution.  In the meantime,

a_dict = { 'aa' : 1 , 'bb' : 2 }
items = a_dict.items()
VALUE = 1 # the value you want to find
t = filter( lambda x : x[1] == VALUE , items )[0]
key = t[0]
print key


What this does it get the list of (key,value) tuples from the
dictionary, then iterate over it finding all the pairs that have the
value you want to find.  It then takes the first of those (bear in mind
dicts can have duplicate values but not duplicate keys) and prints the
key for that pair.  This algorithm requires linear time.  As the
dictionary grows larger the time for this code to execute grows at the
same rate.

Also note that using 'dict' as a variable name is not recommended
since it is a built-in name in python >= 2.2.

HTH,
-D

-- 

Micros~1 :  
 For when quality, reliability 
  and security just aren't
   that important!




From gcordova at hebmex.com  Fri Mar 29 17:20:16 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:20:16 -0600
Subject: Breaking String into Values
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062334CFB1D@mail.hebmex.com>

> 
> I am working on reading in a data file format which is set up 
> as a series of lines that look like this:
> 
> 3500035000010104A Foo 45
> 
> I want to break up into a variables as follows:
> a = 35000, b = 35000, c = 10104, d = 'A', e = 'Foo', f = 45
> 

How about using a regular expression?

>>> import sre
>>> pattern = sre.compile(r"(\d{5})(\d{5})(\d{6})(.)\s+(\S+)\s+(\d{2})")
>>> match = pattern.match("3500035000010104A Foo 45")
>>> match.groups()
('35000', '35000', '010104', 'A', 'Foo', '45')
>>>


And, with the match object, you can do a multiple assignment:

>>> a, b, c, d, e, f = match.groups()
>>> print a, b, c, d, e, f
35000 35000 010104 A Foo 45
>>>


Good luck!

-gustavo



From stauffer at swarthmore.edu  Fri Mar 29 12:45:56 2002
From: stauffer at swarthmore.edu (Glenn Stauffer)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:45:56 -0500
Subject: Moin/Boa
Message-ID: <200203291245.56106.stauffer@swarthmore.edu>

Anyone have any experience running moin with the boa web server?  I'm running 
into a bit of a problem that I'm sure is a configuration issue, but I can't 
find anything in either set of docs to tell me what I need to do to fix it.

Glenn



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar  3 20:04:49 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:04:49 -0600
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
In-Reply-To: <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com>
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org>
        <KyEd8.66437$dG.27580630@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>
        <987e7uoo5v87fsjruq0ug6bff0vha5ear0@4ax.com>
        <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>
        <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com>
        <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com>
Message-ID: <15490.51249.422151.234776@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Frederic> Just reverse the paradigm: have the python VM run in a single
    Frederic> thread, using stackless microthreads for python
    Frederic> multithreading, and run the C calls in a pool of threads.
    Frederic> This way: no lock is needed, since only one thread runs the
    Frederic> VM, with the help of microthreads, and C calls run in other
    Frederic> threads.

I don't think this will work without a lot of effort.  There is code that is
not strictly speaking part of the virtual machine that assumes the presence
of the global interpreter lock.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From jason at jorendorff.com  Tue Mar 12 03:45:01 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:45:01 -0600
Subject: newbie-ish question on exec statement
In-Reply-To: <0C7CA8D8DF75494EB09AB6016990107FF08312@NOXMAIL.noetixad.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEENKDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Gabe Newcomb wrote:
> Specifically, what I want to do is build function
> names dynamically and call them (don't ask why).
>
> I have a feeling that something unexpected (by me anyway)
> is happening with the string I'm trying to pass in as the
> arg to my_function()--this is based on the response I'm
> getting from my function.

Well, it has to do with the number of backslashes you've got.
The following examples should both work:

  exec "t = my_" + "function('\\\\\\\\machine\\\\share')"
  exec r"t = my_" + r"function(r'\\machine\share')"

But it would be better to do it this way:

  fnname = "my_" + "function"  # build function name
  fn = eval(fnname)            # look up the function
  fn('\\\\machine\\share')     # call it

And there is a better way still, but it depends on why
you're doing what you're doing, and I'm not supposed to ask.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Mar  5 06:05:42 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:05:42 +0100
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org> <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1015320430.17383.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-7D3CD7.12054205032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1015320430.17383.python-list at python.org>,
 Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote:

> Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> > Do you think it's feasible to modify Python to use non-blocking i/o
> > everywhere, and then simulate blocking in Stackless?  I.e. when a
> > microthread does an i/o operation, Python would start the operation
> > asynchronously, and the Stackless microthread scheduler would block
> > the microthread til the i/o operation actually completes (detected
> > using select or SIGIO).
> 
> 
> This is roughly how I understood Frederic's idea.

This is not at all how I understood Frederic's idea... I thought his 
idea was about using os threads for C calls (such as I/O), so you could 
simply use blocking sockets as they will be run in an OS thread. With 
non-blocking sockets you can indeed get a long way avoiding OS threads 
completely, while still presenting a blocking interface, which is what 
Paul means. It's not a complete solution, though, eg on windows file 
system files don't work with select and you haven't solved the problem 
of microthreads blocking when calling a C extension. And _that's_ the 
area where Frederic's idea would shine, not so much I/O.

Just


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 17 12:43:29 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:43:29 +0100
Subject: new-style class initialization
References: <Gh4l8.22179$P4.1956273@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <j4y9gr5bum.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"robin and jim" <robinjim at earthlink.net> writes:

> What is the correct way to write the following where the number of
> arguments to the initializer changes throughout the inheritance
> hierarchy?

If you need to know exactly which base initializers to call and what
arguments to give them, super() is not the right way to do
that. Instead, you will need to explicitly say which initializer to
call, e.g. via

   A.__init__(self, 'B')

HTH,
Martin



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 13:48:11 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:48:11 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
In-Reply-To: <a7s5lt$80na7$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>
	<a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org>
	<a7qps1$7u2s9$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<mailman.1017184186.13808.python-list@python.org>
	<a7s5lt$80na7$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <20020327104811.3250c83c.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 27 Mar 2002 10:07:57 GMT
Uwe Schmitt wrote:

> Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> | To have it in a frame, simply create another class similar to
InputDialog
> | that uses a wxFrame instead.  With this, you can also embed the panel
in
> | something else, for instance a wxNotebook.
> 
> O.k, thats very helpful and "elegant"...
> 
> Thanks, Uwe

I posted something useful?  Thanks!  You know, Kevin Altis once told me
that he stopped reading my posts because he claims I only post smart-ass
comments.  Then again, I think Kevin's a troublemaker, getting people all
stirred up with this PythonCard thing, and I'm pretty sure he owes me beer
money as well.  I don't like airing people's dirty laundry, but he once
confided in me that he was planning on attending a local VB SIG meeting. 
Think about it.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Mar 30 16:38:47 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 13:38:47 -0800
Subject: Data type ideas
References: <mailman.1017475907.10586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203301338.1cf07eb0@posting.google.com>

"Sean 'Shaleh' Perry" <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017475907.10586.python-list at python.org>...
> > 
> > So what next?  Any ideas that I can use?  
> > 
> 
> look into pickles.  Act like dictionaries but live on the hard drive.

Do you mean "shelves" instead of "pickles"? Even so, how do they help
the OP with his problem?


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar  7 23:31:19 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 04:31:19 GMT
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
References: <mailman.1015530914.14111.python-list@python.org> <7xd6yflsoi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8gfkn.4br.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <7xd6yflsoi.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> This disturbs me.  I'd prefer that checkin privileges be extremely
> limited.  I don't want random crackers to be able to check trojan
> horses into the Python distribution.  I'd rather that every patch be

Note that all CVS checkins result in a diff being sent to the
Python-checkins mailing list, so patches would be still be getting
proofread after the fact.  This is particularly true for a new
developer.  People may let a patch from /F or Martin or one of the
PythonLabs gang go by without inspection, but a new committer would
likely be under the microscope.

(On the other hand, granting people commit privileges right off the
bat doesn't seem really necessary.  Just figuring out bugs and
submitting patches for someone else to check in would help a lot, and
that doesn't need commit privileges.)

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Here the only logic is that there isn't any logic.
    -- The Doctor, in "The Ultimate Foe"




From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 11 12:11:32 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:11:32 +0000
Subject: Definition problem
In-Reply-To: <rpalton-097137.10024611032002@news.videotron.ca>
References: <rpalton-097137.10024611032002@news.videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <20020311171132.GD12733@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 10:02:46AM -0400, Ricks Palton wrote:

> What's the problem and what should I do?

The problem is that python uses indentation to denote program
structure.  As the traceback says, it expects an indented block.

What you should do is try to obtain a version in which this
indentation has been preserved properly.  Failing that, you'll have to
try to make the indentation right, which I've attempted to do in the
attached file.

Where did you get the code from?  Did you download it or
copy-and-paste?  Python is _very_ sensitive to whitespace in general
and so you need to be careful when, eg, downloading code from the net.
If you can save a .py to disk directly, that's usually best, as you'll
be more likely to be getting the code as its original programmer
intended.

mmtk_test.py, attached, contains the code as I speculate it should be
structured.  I might be slightly wrong, but as I don't have MMTK
installed I can't test it.  I'd hope that even if it's wrong, it'll
give you the gist of what's going on anyway.  Note that, of course, if
you don't have MMTK installed, you won't be able to run it either.
:-)

Finally, here's an FAQ entry explaining why python uses indentation
like this: http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#6.2

Hope This Helps,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Mon Mar  4 23:32:45 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:32:45 -0800
Subject: chopping a string
In-Reply-To: <m3bse3j1e4.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>; from iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 05:37:07PM -0700
References: <m3bse3j1e4.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <20020304203245.A32643@ActiveState.com>

[David Bear wrote]
> there's gotta be an easier way.  I have a string 
> "    something  somethingelse    "
> 
> note the leading a trailing whitespace.  I'd like to grab the first
> word and strip whitespace.  I came up with
> 
>  string.join(string.split(string.strip(str))[:1])
> 
> but I'm thinking, there must be a better way?  better means (faster) (smaller)..

    >>> s = "    something  somethingelse    "
    >>> s.split()[0]
    'something'

If you are using Python 1.5.2, then you spell this this way:

    >>> import string
    >>> string.split(s)[0]
    'something'
    >>>


Cheers,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 31 14:38:41 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:38:41 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <3CA75DAC.17647CEA@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEGGOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Erik Max Francis]
> ...
> Excessive attempts to make terms more approachable can lead to disaster
> in the degenerate case, resulting in just a new form of terminology that
> now nobody understands.

People should be aware that Guido is acutely sensitive to that:  ABC went
out of its way to invent new "friendly" terms for everything, and indeed
that just increased ABC's isolation.  Like, instead of "string" it used
"text", instead of "function" it was "how-to", and if you still can't guess
what ABC meant by "train", I don't blame you <wink -- as a hint, a text is
one kind of train -- as a really great hint, the answer is "sequence">.
About ABC's notion of truth:

    A predicate-how-to defines the meaning of a new predicate ...
    Predicates are used in examinations, which are a special case
    of tests. ... Tests do not return a value, but succeed or fail
    via the report, succeed and fail commands.

IOW, cutting thru the unique terminology, ABC finessed the "bool or truth?"
question by not having any such datatype, and, e.g., the set of expressions
allowable after an "if" had no intersection with those allowable as what you
think of as the right-hand-side of an assignment statement (which ABC called
putting a value in a location, via the PUT command).




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar 13 16:00:06 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:00:06 -0800
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <yu998z8zywbi.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBDD6.9906E423@ccvcorp.com>


Andrew Koenig wrote:

> Rather, it seems to me that Microsoft is saying that they will not
> allow their products to be used in any way that might potentially
> compel Microsoft to disclose any of their own source code.

Right, but they then go on to say that, in order to prevent such compulsion for Microsoft,
that the users of the software may not use it with, or to produce, Open Source software.
(Or even distribute the code you produce with it, alongside a separate Open Source
product!)  The idea that doing so would put any sort of obligation on Microsoft is
ludicrous, yet that is exactly the implied claim of the license terms.  That, along with
the use of the blatantly inflammatory term "potentially viral software", is a clear
indication that this is a strong attempt by MS to frighten people away from Open Source.  I
question whether these license terms could stand up in court, but even if it is eventually
ruled illegal, it can do a lot of harm before that point.

I'm not as fond of bashing MS products as some others, but their corporate policies scare
me.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From feldspar at ix.netcom.com  Thu Mar  7 15:25:52 2002
From: feldspar at ix.netcom.com (Antaeus Feldspar)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:25:52 -0400
Subject: hexstring to string?
References: <mailman.1015522393.18905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C87CCD0.7020704@ix.netcom.com>

maximilianscherr wrote:

> i made a function to convert a hex string containing character to a 
> normal string.
> 
> it looks like this:
> 
> class ConversionHandler:
>     def ConvertHexToStr(self, hex):
>         letter = 0
>         str = ''
>         while len(str) < len(hex) / 2:
>             nextletter = letter + 2
>             str = str + chr(int(hex[letter:nextletter], 16))
>             letter = nextletter
> 
>         return str
> 
> hex looks like: 414243
> 
> but why does it not work?


Some possibilities:

* You are using a version of Python earlier than 1.6; previous to 1.6, 
int() took one and only one argument.  If this is the case, you can use 
string.atoi with the same interface.

* You are passing in an integer rather than a string(414243 rather than 
'414243'), in which case len(hex) will fail because an integer is an 
unsized object.

* You are not creating an instance of ConversionHandler and passing the 
argument to the instance to perform the work.  (Why are you making it an 
object method, anyhow?)



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 20:44:24 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:44:24 -0500
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com> <oBTi8.1475$523.127893@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3C8C0BF8.F1CD7CDA@engcorp.com>

Patrick wrote:
> 
> "Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
> > than C/Python?
> 
> One example is an extremely complex and long-running simulation in which the
> time-critical components are a very substantial chunk of the project. In
> those (rare) situations you need ruthless efficiency with slightly better
> than rudimentary abstraction capabilities. C++ fits the bill, but only if
> every processor cycle and every byte counts.

Nice example, though even then there are two items to consider:

If every cycle matters that much, can't one buy faster hardware?  Hardware
is usually cheaper than development time these days and if we're talking
a long-running simulation it might be cheaper than run time.

Also, if the program is that complex, might it not be the case that
development on it would finish months earlier if written in Python with
bottlenecks rewritten in C, and all that extra time would be available to
run this _perhaps_ slower program and maybe end up no slower overall?

> The vast majority of programmers will never go anywhere near a project like
> that. Even "real programmers" very seldom do. 

Very true.  I thought I had a few times, but then I realized I hadn't.
The only problem is that it wasn't until I learned Python that I realized
it, and years had already gone by so the time was lost forever. :(

-Peter


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Mar  7 18:57:45 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:57:45 GMT
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <rmsf8u8ieh0dbl1i9rjd7gbg2vvotaqtop@4ax.com> <7x8z946jsq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <vqvf8u8a0vi5pvqi84hv2ttjffssata8o0@4ax.com>

>This doesn't sound good.  Suppose you say
>
>      for i = a to b:
>
>where you don't know at compile time the values of a and b.
>Do you really want it to count backwards if b < a?

I truly don't know. It's a semantic I could live with.
Ordinarily I personally would expect to validate the
data elsewhere in any case, so for _ME_, the shortcut
is just a way of not specifying the negative stride.
Here's another option:

	for i = 1 to 10 += 1:
	for i = 10 to 1 -= 1:

I think in at least one case the stride ought to be
optional.

C//




From plopp at dummyaddress.doh  Sun Mar 31 17:45:59 2002
From: plopp at dummyaddress.doh (Mikke M.)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 00:45:59 +0200
Subject: Replace high-bit characters in file.
References: <mailman.1017609588.23784.python-list@python.org> <m3y9g8ml7v.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <HkMp8.3076$Ow4.4293@news2.bredband.com>

> Probably not. If a (dBase) file is a binary thing, it might well be
> that you modify the non-text parts of it. You really have to
> understand the structure of the file, and apply the transformation
> only to the text fragments.

I'm using


> In general, this is more complicated, as the size of the string may
> change under the conversion, but in this specific case, this can't
> happen.






From aahz at panix.com  Wed Mar  6 18:16:09 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:16:09 -0800
Subject: Threading help?
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a667vp$9u$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list at python.org>,
VanL  <Van at Lindbergs.org> wrote:
>
>This is my first time playing with python threads, and I am a little at 
>a loss how to start.  

I'm not going to directly address your questions, but given that you're
new to Python threads, you'll probably find some useful info at
http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 19:24:07 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:24:07 -0800
Subject: Which class method will be used when calling it?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203151707020.11324-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <3C9290A7.AA3931CB@ccvcorp.com>


Pearu Peterson wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Let's define classes
>
> class A:
>   def f(self): pass         # define default method f
>
> class B(A):
>   def f(self): pass         # define specific method f
>
> class B1(B): pass           # specific B.f is available
>
> class C(A): pass            # no specific method f, default is available
>
> and instances:
>
> a = A()
> b = B()
> b1 = B1()
> c = C()
>
> Given one of these instances, how to tell which method will be called,
> the default f or a specific f, if calling <instance>.f()?

In attempting to find the method to use, Python searches the most derived
class first, then the most recent ancestor, then any ancestors of that,
etc...

Thus, you will get the following calls:

a.f() == A.f(a)
b.f() == B.f(b)
b1.f() == B.f(b1)
c.f() == A.f(c)

The only complications to watch for, is if you have a "diamond" inheritance
pattern -- in other words, if you were to define a class D like so:

class D(B, C):
    pass

d = D()

Now it becomes a bit more difficult to figure out which version of f() is
called.  In Python 2.1 and earlier, the base classes are searched
depth-first, so that the call would resolve to B.f(), but if class D were
declared as D(C, B) [note reverse order of ancestors], then d.f() would
resolve to A.f() (since C has no f(), but C's parent A does).  Python 2.2
changed this, so that (in essence) a breadth-first search is done; under
2.2, d.f() should resolve to B.f() regardless of the order that the parents
were listed when D was declared.

(At least, I *think* I'm remembering this correctly.... ;) )

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Mar 13 06:59:31 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 13:59:31 +0200
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <e_Dj8.31522$l93.6228619@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <kuwuwgfzks.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <e_Dj8.31522$l93.6228619 at newsb.telia.net>, "Fredrik Lundh"
<fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

| Robin Becker wrote:
|| Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability impact zlib.pyd?
| only if the guys implementing your C library decided to inter-
| pret "undefined behaviour" as "force the operating system to
| run code designed to take over the computer".
|
| dunno about MSVC; the CRT documentation only says that
| things like this may "cause errors".

many malloc implementations use doubly linked lists in a way that
could make them vulnerable to this sort of exploit. the above sort of
speculation can be counterproductive if you don't have hard data. it
may subtract from the motivation of people considering an upgrade, and
leave them vulnerable when the exploits surface.

for the general idea see
eg http://security-archive.merton.ox.ac.uk/bugtraq-200010/0084.html

  -- erno


From joonas at olen.to  Sat Mar 23 16:46:14 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:46:14 +0200
Subject: Replacing excel: but with what ?
References: <3C9CCF6C.F1099089@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <3C9CF7A6.51F112EC@olen.to>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:
> 
> Does anybody have a recommendation of what GUI to use in Windows to
> build
> an spreadsheet view of a dictionary. Application should support
> +, - , * and division -operations between cells, columns and rows.
> The size of the grid would be at maximum 2000 rows x 2000 cells.
> 
> I am plotting values to 2D -grid and giving string replacements for
> individual cells.
> One row consists of values in a file. Column -values are an union of
> all parameters found from all files. I would like to copy values
> from a selected cell to all rows. Grid should also support row
> and column-wise sorts.
> 
> I can allready create and start an Excel -sheet after parsing the file
> contents
> with re-execs. I am using WxPython for the toolbar, but sticking with
> Excel worries me. Plus I do not have a use for all of its features.
> 
> WxWindows has a grid, but does anybody have experience of its stability
> ?
> I have managed to crash its demo that comes with WxPython...

Does Tkinter meet your needs? You can create a spreadsheet by griddinng
Entry widgets. There is an example in Lutz's Programming Python 2'nd
Edition, if you happen to owe it.


From abarker at nospam.com  Sun Mar  3 10:15:07 2002
From: abarker at nospam.com (Anthony Barker)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:15:07 GMT
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3c75f5b3$0$149$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee>
Message-ID: <Xns91C668625A0CBanthonyBarkeryahooco@207.35.177.135>

Check out :
": Lutz Prechelt wrote "An Empirical Comparison of C, C++, Java, Perl, 
Python, Rexx, and Tcl for a Search/String-Processing Program in which he 
compares productivity and program performance for 80 different 
implementations of the same requirements, in 7 languages."

http://wwwipd.ira.uka.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf



"Eduard Smirnov" <Ed.Smirnov at mail.ee> wrote in
news:3c75f5b3$0$149$bb624dac at diablo.uninet.ee: 

> I?m writing a diploma paper on the difference between scripting (e.g.
> in Python or Tcl) and system programming (e.g. in C, C++ or Java), and
> one of the claims I want to make is that you can often develop
> applications 10x or more faster in a scripting language.
> I apologue that more applications can be written or re-written in
> scripting language faster and with more complex functionality then in
> system programming language.
> If you have any experience in writing applications in system
> programming language (e.g. in C, C++) and re-writing it in scripting
> language (e.g. Python) or vice versa, please compare your work in both
> implementations, describe your work/application?s functionality,
> approximate number of lines and time of development of each
> implementation, skill?s level needed. Any more comments about are
> welcome. 
> 
> Additional thanks for copy your answer to my e-mail.
> 
> Eduard.Smirnov at mail.ee
> Tallinn Technical Univercity
> Estonia
> 
> 
> 
> 



From holger at trillke.net  Sun Mar 24 07:43:33 2002
From: holger at trillke.net (holger at trillke.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:43:33 +0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
Message-ID: <20020324134333.A12768@prim.han.de>

Hello,

maybe a simple question:

how could you stop a running threading.Thread from
the *outside*? of course i could introduce
some kind of flag into the event loop
of the Thread.run-method, but i really would prefer
to have a non-instrusive way for several reasons. 

Any way to do this?

thanks, 

	holger



From plopp at dummyaddress.doh  Sun Mar 31 15:09:17 2002
From: plopp at dummyaddress.doh (Mikke M.)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:09:17 +0200
Subject: Replace high-bit characters in file.
Message-ID: <M1Kp8.3021$Ow4.4334@news2.bredband.com>

I'm stuck!

I need a script that replaces national characters in a (dBase)file.

The original file is encoded in Latin-1 but I need it to be in CP850
instead.






From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Mar 26 06:18:51 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:18:51 +0100
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7pm9j$86u$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:52:25 +0100, "FREDRIK HULDTGREN"
<tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> wrote:

>I want to generate random numbers, very large random numbers. If I use
>randrange() I get an out of bounds error since it only supports numbers
>up to (2**31)-1. However, I can use uniform(), but then I get the number
>returned in 7.9655120654553743e+018 or something simaler, and I would
>rather have it in a "L" format(796551206545537430183218312890381031L).
>How do I do this?

On a i810 - i850 type motherboard, and using windows as an OS there's
the possibility of using the intel 82802 firmware hub random number
generator:

http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/truerand/truerand_0_1_1.zip

I wrote this extension some time ago and it works for me. I can give
no other indications about it working properly since I am still
waiting for someone to admit having been able to use it! If there's
some other source of random bytes, it could be made into a random long
number using a similar method.

Anton.



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Thu Mar 21 23:43:19 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:43:19 -0800
Subject: CGI, etc.
References: <mailman.1016770055.25259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7dgl7.3vs45c5.1@kserver.org>

[posted and mailed]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:06:06 -0000, "purplebo1212" <purplebo1212 at yahoo.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016770055.25259.python-list at python.org>:

> Hi! I'm new to Python and was looking at writing an CGI script that 
> would execute a program. Any pointers?
> thanx
> 
> 
http://www.python.org/topics/web/



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Fri Mar 29 22:46:45 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 03:46:45 GMT
Subject: execfile() - change python version?
References: <VK9p8.1492$hi7.2657@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3CA53165.E3A765A4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Fyap8.1555$hi7.2980@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

On the other thought, using os.system(), i guess that will incur a high
performance penalty invoking an additional python interpreter wouldnt it?

like, its bad enough that python is spawned off the websever with a new
thread yeah?

is it recommended using os.system() ? just to run my scripts with python
2.2?

cheers
trungie



"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3CA53165.E3A765A4 at engcorp.com...
> Trung Hoang wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > i was wondering if there is a way to change which version of python
> > processing the file when execfile().
>
> No.  execfile() is basically "execute this file using the currently
> running version of Python".
>
> > i wish to use python2.2 on the main file, and python2.1 on the file
passed
> > into the argument of execfile().
>
> Don't use execfile().  Use os.system() and run the version you want
instead.
>
> > reason being: there is some sort of mis configuration error on the
server i
> > am using python on.
>
> Sounds like there must be an easier way to solve the problem.  Can
> you give more detail on this "misconfiguration error"?




From brian at sweetapp.com  Fri Mar 15 03:26:58 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:26:58 -0800
Subject: XML-RPC Question
In-Reply-To: <cf0ad9fb.0203142305.78ae5e24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <005e01c1cbfb$2c6215e0$445d4540@Dell2>

Jesper Olsen wrote:
> system.listMethods() is from the XML RPC introspection API
> - se section 11.20.1 in the python reference doc
> 
> It is nice to have when connecting to servers you have not written
> yourself.
> 
> It should be very easy to support it in the SimpleXMLRPCServer,
> but I guess it is not quite a standard, so they did not bother

It's not that I didn't bother; it's that I have a finite amount of time
to devote to open source projects.

The next version will support system.listMethods, system.helpMethods and
system.multicall. 

To see the work in progress, see:  
http://www.sweetapp.com/xmlrpc/

Cheers,
Brian




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Tue Mar  5 02:42:52 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:42:52 +0100
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
In-Reply-To: <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <20020305074252.GA1709@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 05/03/02 ? 08:26, Gerhard H?ring ?crivit:
> Le 05/03/02 ? 01:41, Robert Oschler ?crivit:
> > I've never seen this feature in any programming language I've worked in but
> > it can't hurt to ask.  Can an aggregated class object get a reference to the
> > class object that aggregates it?  So if ClassAggregator contained an
> > instance of ClassAggregatee is there a Python syntax/construct that a
> > function in ClassAggregatee could use to get a reference to the instance of
> > ClassAggregator that contained it?
>  
> [unfinished code]

If I understood you correctly, this might do the trick:

import sys

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        self.b = B()

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        print sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self']

a = A()

It even works with Jython, so it's reasonably portable.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 1.8 ?C      Wind: 1.6 m/s



From bmoyle at mvista.com  Tue Mar 26 20:29:17 2002
From: bmoyle at mvista.com (Brian Moyle)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:29:17 -0800
Subject: is'nt Tkinter a standard module?
References: <a7r0jl$253u@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA1206D.3F09628F@mvista.com>

I believe you're looking for "tkinter-1.5.2-35.i386.rpm" from the first
install CD.

(use something like "rpm -ihv /mnt/cdrom/RedHat/RPMS/tkinter-*" to
install it)

Brian


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Thu Mar 14 21:04:08 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:04:08 +0100
Subject: python shell
In-Reply-To: <edd9bc66.0203141851.535c1e20@posting.google.com>
References: <edd9bc66.0203141851.535c1e20@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020315020408.GA8289@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Jim <selectfincon at yahoo.com> [2002-03-14 18:51 -0800]:
> When I try to exit the python shell under windows XP
> it hangs. Is there some trick to this?
 
Does this only happen if you start python from the start menu, but not when you
start it from a command prompt? If the answer to this question is yes, then you
can edit the shortcut to python.exe in the start menu. There should be a
checkbox "keep terminal window open after application has finished" or some
such.

HTH,

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 5.2 ?C      Wind: 2.9 m/s



From frederic.giacometti at arakne.com  Mon Mar  4 09:11:47 2002
From: frederic.giacometti at arakne.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:11:47 GMT
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com>


Aahz Maruch wrote:

> >
> >Just reverse the paradigm: have the python VM run in a single thread,
> >using stackless microthreads for python multithreading, and run the C
> >calls in a pool of threads.  This way: no lock is needed, since only
> >one thread runs the VM, with the help of microthreads, and C calls run
> >in other threads.
>
> This doesn't make any sense unless you assume OS-level threads, and I
> thought part of the point of Stackless was to avoid requiring OS-level
> threads.

More precisely, the point of stackless is to dispense from OS threads (and Python
lock) overheads for running threaded Python bytecode.
However, OS threads are still required to take charge of calls to blocking C
function (usually from external C libraries) that one want to run asynchronously
to the PVM; there is no turn around to this.

FG








From p.magwene at snet.net  Fri Mar 15 22:14:03 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 03:14:03 GMT
Subject: Shot in the Dark: Minimum-weight perfect matching algorithm
References: <pan.2002.03.15.19.52.32.366019.81993@snet.net> <eppstein-0100AC.18350415032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.15.22.14.02.809294.18618@snet.net>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:35:04 -0500, David Eppstein wrote:

> In article <pan.2002.03.15.19.52.32.366019.81993 at snet.net>,
>  Paul Magwene <p.magwene at snet.net> wrote:
> 
>> Does anybody happen to have a Python implementation of a minimum-weight
>> perfect matching algorithm?  Or a Python interface to one?
>> 
>> I'm aware of (some) of the literature on this topic, but as a
>> non-computer scientist I'd rather not have to twist my mind around one
>> of the Blossum algorithms.
> 
> I take it you need nonbipartite perfect matching?
> 
> Bipartite is much easier.  (I don't have Python even for that, but I do
> have some simple C code...)
> 

Hi David,

Yes, it's for non-bipartite matching I'm afraid.

Some more digging did turn up this neat little Java applet:

http://www.math.sfu.ca/~goddyn/Courseware/Visual_Matching.html

with source code in the same directory.  I may try and translate that to
something Pythonic - it's definitely more inviting than the Blossum4 code.

Thanks,
Paul

p.s. For anyone else who might be following this thread and is
interested in computational geometry and graph algorithms, David
Eppstein's web page, bibliography, and pubs are a real treasure trove.
Check 'em out!


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Mar 20 05:09:15 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 11:09:15 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a79jmp$jg0ba$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <j41yefk0tw.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> writes:

> Problems with freeze, IMO, are that it requires a C-compiler,
> which most people on windows do not have, also the resulting
> files are much larger than those created by py2exe or installer,
> because the byte codes are not compressed.

In the context of distutils, absence of a compiler may not be a
problem: people building packages with distutils will need a compiler,
atleast if the package contains extension modules.

As for size of the resulting executable: if compressing the byte code
really provides a significant saving, I think freeze should make use
of that mechanism, too.

I see the primary advantage of freeze over the other mechanisms in
that it provides (or can provide) a truly stand-alone binary. The
Windows-specific packagers always need to put pythonxy.dll into the
executable, and any required extension modules; this is ugly. If
libpython is available as a static library, freeze can produce more
compact binaries, too, since it can omit unused extension modules.

Regards,
Martin


From lac at strakt.com  Sun Mar 24 03:49:05 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:05 +0100
Subject: Where can I find these imports? (with the imports' imports included :P) 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Devnull" <devnull@terra.com.br> 
   of "Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:21:48 -0300."
Message-ID: <200203240849.g2O8n5rq008466@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> 
> seriously I need to compile a program I found that needs these files:
> 
> import Tkinter
> import tkFileDialog
> import Pmw      =20
> import level
> import guimaker
> import formgui
> import shelve
> import os
> import os.path
> import guimixin
> from guimixin import *
> 
> I got already Pmw, but I can't find guimaker, formgui, level and =
> guimixin anywhere, I wonder if anyone has them, can they please send me =
> these files? or tell me where I can get them (with their respective =
> imports)
> thank you
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1D2B9.1FA256C0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

1.  Please don't post HTML -- some of us can't read it easily.
2. guimaker, formgui, and guimixin are probably from Programming Python
   Second Edition by Mark Lutz.  They come on the CD.  (and formgui
   lives with the DBase examples, not the Gui examples).  I don't know
   about level though -- and find did not produce a module of that name
   when I fed it PP2E the toplevel directory of the CD.

HTH,
Laura Creighton



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Mar 22 22:50:19 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 14:50:19 +1100
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost>
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
	<1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <m31yec2b9g.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

>> No, we don't, although we're considering some options (such as
>> abusing the XML namespace - for example: <al-img
>> expr:src="something"> - thoughts?

Ian> I assume you are thinking that any al-* tag that isn't otherwise
Ian> defined would turn into a plain tag?  So you'd do <al-table
Ian> expr:bgcolor="something"> ?  Seems kind of unXMLish as well.

Ian> You could do something like:

Ian>   <al-attr name="bgcolor" expr="something"><table>...</table></al-attr>

Ian> That's very long, and you have to parse the entire document (I'm
Ian> not sure if you are doing that now).  Actually, it looks horrible
Ian> and if I was using such a language I would hate you.  Maybe:

Ian>   <al-attr name="bgcolor" expr="something"/><table>...</table>

Ian> I'm not sure if that's quite kosher or not... I guess there's
Ian> nothing really wrong about it, it just doesn't feel much like XML
Ian> -- something about binding two elements together when they are
Ian> only next to each other, not contained, seems odd.  And it still
Ian> isn't pretty.

I had a crazy idea a while ago which would stop us having to do the
thing that you pointed out:

    <td bgcolor="<al-value expr="bgcolor">">

The idea, which I am still not sold on, goes a bit like this:

    <al-attr id="fancytable" name="bgcolor" value="pink">

    <al-td id="fancytable">

The first bit of template attaches an attribute name and value to an
attribute id.  This attribute association would be stored in the
execution context so you could define values in your Python code if
you wished.  Albatross tags would then retrieve values from the
association by using the same id attribute.

This would allow Albatross templates to be much more flexible.
Consider the <al-for> tag.  At the moment you have to staticly decide
the name of the iterator.  This means that you cannot reuse a bunch of
template code which paginated a sequence in a macro since you would be
using the same iterator for multiple sequences.  With the above you
could do this (not really a good example):

   <al-macro name="list">
    <al-for id="list">
     blah blah <al-usearg>
    </al-for>
   </al-macro>

   <al-attr id="list" name="iter" value="i">
   <al-attr id="list" name="pagesize" value="10">
   <al-expand name="list">spam</al-expand>

   <al-attr id="list" name="iter" value="j">
   <al-attr id="list" name="pagesize" value="15">
   <al-expand name="list">eggs</al-expand>

The functionality would require an extensive reworking of the tags
code.  There are some advantages to the approach but I am still a
bit concerned that it is too obscure.

Andrew has since mentioned changing the way that the we name the
Albatross processed attributes to make them more functional and
consistent.  Something like:

   <al-input name="field">             <!-- normal HTML -->
   <al-input name.expr="expr">         <!-- name from eval'ed expr -->

I am starting to think that this would be an excellent idea.

Ian> Of course there's the ZPT approach, which isn't bad, but then you
Ian> might as well use ZPT.  But I guess there's no reason you can't
Ian> use something like ZPT just for changing attributes, like:

Ian>   <table al:bgcolor="something">

I have a few concerns about ZPT.

You are forced to embed programming logic which is used to dynamically
alter the presentation of the interface directly inside the
presentation elements.  I have a feeling that this makes the whole
template unduly fragile and resistant to change.

The idea that an HTML developer who does not understand ZPT will be
able to ignore the ZPT attributes and just change the interface in
isolation is a fantasy.  The ZPT attributes define an executable
program - their correct placement is critical to the functioning of
the template.  Note that the same is true of Albatross tags, but you
can change the HTML in isolation to the Albatross tags.

Ian> And then skip all the looping and such that ZPT does with
Ian> attributes.  You'd still have the worry about generating CSS and
Ian> Javascript, though.  Dave mentioned performance... doing a full
Ian> XML parse is performance-intensive, but you could fake it for
Ian> this particular case -- you don't need to find the </table> tag
Ian> or anything, you could probably do it just with regexes.

Ian> I still think it's so much easier to use [], and make the system
Ian> orthogonal to XML or any other medium you might want to generate.
Ian> I think it actually gives you better tool support as well.

The [] characters do not make things much more pretty IMO.  You sill
end up with things like this:

    <td bgcolor="[al-value expr="bgcolor"]">

Something which would dynamically assign attributes to tags would look
much nicer.

    <td bgcolor.expr="bgcolor">  <!-- semi ZPT to modify one attr -->
    <al-td id="blah">            <!-- attach arbitrary attrs -->
    <al-td id.expr="yow">        <!-- combination of both -->

The whole goal of Albatross is to place as little logic as is possible
in the templating system.  All real programming should be in Python.
Having said that, I recognise that the templating system is far from
perfect.  If it was an easy problem, we would all be using the same
templating system which was a standard Python module.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 15:03:14 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 21:03:14 +0100
Subject: Text to HTML algorithm.
References: <mailman.1017254742.8781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3d6xpok1p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gustavo Cordova <gcordova at hebmex.com> writes:

> Does anybody have an implementation, or know of one,
> to format plain text into HTML?

Sure. If it does not contain markup,

print "<html><body><pre>%s</pre></body></html>" % plaintext

will fulfill this requirement.

> I need to preserve a minimum of structure, such as
> wrapping <p>...</p> around paragraphs separated by
> at least one empty line and detecting unnumbered
> lists (at least).

If you think you need a pre-existing library, you may want to try
HTMLGen. It knows much about HTML, but little about plain text.

Regards,
Martin



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Mar 28 15:13:17 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:13:17 -0500
Subject: vwait in Python?
References: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis> <mailman.1017331196.5311.python-list@python.org> <cQIo8.3511$Ou.3340@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3795D.1020200@wi.mit.edu>

You might want to try a different pattern.  A simple observer pattern 
might do what you want.  Essentially if you can break up your control 
logic into functions so that after variable Y's value has been changed 
you want to call function X you might find that most of your problems 
become easier.

Here is an example of a new IntVar widget that uses an observer pattern 
to control program flow.  Note that this sets a variable that broadcasts 
to all relevant "listeners" that's its value has been changed.  The 
variable's value is set by the widget but could be set by anything else 
as well.  For example, if you have some other process that changes the 
observable it could notify the widget to update to the new value as 
well.  This is left as an exercise to the reader :)

from Tkinter import *
import Dialog

class Observable:
     def __init__(self, data):
         self.data = None
         self.callbacks = []

     def addCallback(self, func):
         """(function)-> add listeners"""
         self.callbacks.append(func)

     def set(self, data):
         """(data)->set the variable to be equal to data and
         call all listeners"""
         self.data = data
         for callback in self.callbacks:
             callback(data)

class ObservableIntVar(Frame):
     def __init__(self, master, **kw):
         apply(Frame.__init__, (self, master), kw)
         self._var = IntVar()
         b = Checkbutton(master,
                         variable=self._var,
                         command=self._setVar)
         b.pack()
         self._observable = Observable(self._var.get())

     def _setVar(self):
         self._observable.set(self._var.get())
         Dialog.Dialog(self,
                       title="Hello",
                       text="I'm set to %s"%self._var.get(),
                       bitmap=Dialog.DIALOG_ICON,
                       default=0, strings=('OK',))

     def add(self, callback):
         """(callback)->add a callback function that should be
         notified when the value of the IntVar changes"""
         self._observable.addCallback(callback)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     tk = Tk()
     ob = ObservableIntVar(tk)
     ob.pack()

     def callback(data):
         print "callback called with data =", data

     ob.add(callback)

     mainloop()












From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar  8 08:53:11 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 05:53:11 -0800
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1015554558.21762.python-list@python.org> <3C88BEBD.20901@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <7xpu2fxj20.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> writes:
> I have to admit that I'm scared of having to deal with yet another
> special char $ which would need quoting. Since the istring approach
> does not add any more value to Python the developers in favor of this
> should use the istring module. But it should not be added to standard
> Python.

Of course it adds more value to Python.  If you've programmed in Perl
and then switched to Python, you're probably delighted like me to be
free of a lot of Perl ugliness, but interpolation is something that
I sorely miss.

It's better to do it as a language extension than as a library,
because that way the compiler can parse the interpolated strings and
emit bytecode for them directly, rather than having to do some messy
runtime parsing.  If it has to be done as a library, it should at
least be a C extension rather than pure Python (I don't know which the
istring module is).

IMO, Python's "format_string % varlist" hack is excessively cute and
can be done without.  I'd rather have interpolation in the language
and a printf-like function in the library.


From just at xs4all.nl  Sat Mar 16 02:32:37 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:32:37 +0100
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones>
Message-ID: <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122 at stones>,
 Graham Ashton <graz at mindless.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:49:09 +0000, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
> >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe Grossberg <josephgrossberg at hotmail.com> writes:
> > 
> >     Joe> Is there any effective difference between the two?
> > 
> > Nope.
> 
> I read somewhere (don't ask me where) that != is preferred.

But it's not generally accepted. I for one prefer <>, if only because I 
learned Pascal before C... Too bad you can't google on <> or !=, but it 
has been discussed many times in the past.

Just


From tim at worthy.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 14:09:56 2002
From: tim at worthy.demon.co.uk (Tim Howarth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:09:56 GMT
Subject: Access to shared directories
References: <a6tg6u$69$1@serv1.albacom.net>
Message-ID: <ae27bd174b.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>

In message <a6tg6u$69$1 at serv1.albacom.net>
          "Fabrizio" <facelle at jumpy.it> wrote:

> I just want to read a .txt file that I have in a shared directory on
> another PC which is part of a WindowsNT/98 LAN.
> 
> What path should I use in order to read that file from my PC ?

\\pcname\sharename\file.txt

-- 
___
 |im    ---- ARM Powered ----


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Fri Mar 29 17:13:48 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:13:48 +0200
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1017424426.12740.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1017424426.12740.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203300004350.16587-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 rasmussn at lanl.gov wrote:

> How about a Python substitute for make.

SCons seems to address this field already

	http://www.scons.org/

BTW, there are lots of Python based projects going on, you may also
consider joining to some of these projects.

Pearu



From paul1brian at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 05:42:17 2002
From: paul1brian at yahoo.com (Paul Brian)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:42:17 -0000
Subject: Gentle reminder for Python UK Conference, April 4 & 5.
Message-ID: <1015238517.16564.0.nnrp-01.c1c3e191@news.demon.co.uk>

Dear all,

This is a gentle reminder for those Python enthusiasts in the UK that the
2nd Python UK Conference will take place on April the 4th and 5th near
Stratford upon Avon.

The two day conference is packed full of talks on cutting edge applications
of Python, with time to meet, socialise and even discuss code, life and love
with fellow Pythonistas. You even get access to the full ACCU conference,
attended by luminaries such as Bjarne Stroustrup.

If that does not convince you, try advice from Mrs Doyle (Father Ted and the
Inland Revenue) :

"Ah, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on"

You can register online at www.accuconference.co.uk , and further details
are available there too.  Please note that Python attendees should pay the
daily rate for the conference (?130 /day for ACCU members, ?155 else) for
the one or two days they choose to attend.

Yours

Paul Brian





From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 15:55:41 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 21:55:41 +0100
Subject: importing C libraries, Solaris2.6, gcc2.95 :(
References: <17214de2.0203010819.240c00d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3ofi8qa7m.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rsalz at zolera.com (Rich Salz) writes:

> I have a Solaris 2.6 machine, gcc 2.95.3 installed in /usr/local;
> /usr/local/bin is in my $PATH ; /usr/ccs/bin is not in my $PATH. I
> have python 2.1.1 sources; I did "./configure" with no flags. 
> Attempting to import any library that includes a C shared library
> fails with the same backtrace:

I think I've seen this before, but I can't find it, and I don't think
it was resolved the last time.

It sounds like a compiler/linker bug to me: The argument to
SetItemString which is out of bounds *literally* comes from the
methods array. Please try inspecting methods in the the gdb stack
trace (up;up;up;up;p methods[0] - or some such). If this is still an
invalid string, try finding out whether the compiler correctly passed
address of _tkinter.c:moduleMethods. If that is the case, most likely
the static or dynamic linker has messed up with relocations.

What linker are you using? You may want to apply the latest patch
cluster.

Regards,
Martin


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 07:48:52 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:48:52 +0000
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com> <oBTi8.1475$523.127893@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrna8p9tk.kc.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:18:11 +1100, Patrick <netlangau at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>If two people of equal ability started programming today, one learning C and
>Python, the other learning C++, I'd wager that the C/Python guy will be
>running conceptual rings around the C++ guy 12 months from now. Power in a
>language is all about being able to express your most complex thoughts with
>as few arbitrary difficulties as possible. Some languages help. Some hinder.

This is all true.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 12:36:10 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:36:10 -0800
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
References: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a71o2b.3vsbk85.1@kserver.org>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:43:02 +0300, Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list at python.org>:

> On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 12:35:43AM -0800, Sheila King wrote:
> > However, I can't figure out where this latest code is or how to download
> > it.
> 
> CVSROOT=":pserver:anonymous at cvs.mimelib.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mimelib"
> export CVSROOT
> 
> cvs login
> cvs checkout mimelib
> 
>    New code is in mimelib/email directory. If you still will have troubles,
> I can tar and send my copy to you.

Thanks, Oleg. I've downloaded WinCVS and am going to try to learn this CVS
thing and get the code that way.

However, I have two concerns, and this is not just directed at Oleg, but
anyone who has some experience on this matter:

(1) stability. Can I expect this latest code to be stable? Somehow I would
think that would be questionable with late releases?

(2) distribution. If I want to distribute code that I'm developing, and I
use the latest CVS releases to develop my code, such that my code relies on
these CVS releases, how do I distribute code to others who are running the
standard 2.2 install? Also, I noticed last night, when looking over the
mimelib/email CVS files (browsing), that there are a LOT more
libraries/files and that the dependencies have changed. For example, the
import statements in email.Message.py are completely different between the
latest CVS version and the standard 2.2 version.

If I grab these files and put them on my computer, should I just
rename/backup the old version and then drop these new ones in place? Should
I try to somehow (through clever renaming) make both available to my
Python2.2 installation?

I'm just so uncertain as to how to proceed. (Think "CVS newbie" here...)
But I need to get around this
'int has no attribute lower' error. :(

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From brueckd at tbye.com  Fri Mar  1 12:21:04 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:21:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Swapping out sys.stdout globally
In-Reply-To: <20020301093135467-0500@braeburn.na.sas.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203010917180.17935-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 1 Mar 2002, Kevin Smith wrote:

> I am working on a command-line utility written in Python which daemonizes
> itself.  In the process of daemonizing, sys.stdout and sys.stderr are
> redirected to now file-like objects as follows:
>
> sys.stdout = NewFile()
> sys.stderr = NewFile()
>
> However, I have some logging routines in a separate package that already
> have their own references to sys.stdout and sys.stderr which are
> unaffected by this.  Is there a way to chonge where sys.stdout and
> sys.stderr print their output to and have this change affect all existing
> references?

Nope - there's nothing magical about sys.stdout/err - they're just
variables that reference objects. By rebinding them they lose knowledge of
what they referenced previously, just as with any other variable.

You need to rebind stdout/err as soon as your program starts, before any
other modules load. Then as the others load they'll refer to your
replacement objects.

-Dave




From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar 26 09:51:56 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:51:56 +0100
Subject: list comprehension question 
In-Reply-To: Message from Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:02:37 EST." <3C9FC8AD.CD82FEA0@engcorp.com> 
References: <20020325113323.A26319@glacier.arctrix.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEJLOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017100367.4105.python-list@python.org>  <3C9FC8AD.CD82FEA0@engcorp.com> 
Message-ID: <200203261452.g2QEpurq012407@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

>Peter Hansen:
> >   Neil
> > 
> > PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code
> 
> If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.
> 
> And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.
> 
> -objectifying-tim-ly yr's,
> Peter

Tisk tisk.  Only half of the apologising you do for the other person.
The other half you do for yourself.

Laura Creighton



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 10 04:36:22 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 01:36:22 -0800
Subject: python and haskell for fun
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com>

Hi folks,

I've just picked up Simon Peyton Jones' book on haskell: "The craft of
functional programming", and I've just discovered that there's a nice
aesthetic to haskell that somehow reminds me of python: beautiful
syntax, significant whitespace, a wonderful obsession with simplicity,
clarity and readability...

Now, just for fun, I'm thinking how it would be splendid to use these
two languages together, and make them beget a pretty monster so to
speak.

Does anyone have any tips, experiences, or whatever along these lines?

regards,

Sandy


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 07:17:57 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:17:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python UK - April 4th and 5th
References: <mailman.1017226183.22623.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91DE7BC19AEA1duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)" <tony at lsl.co.uk> wrote in 
news:mailman.1017226183.22623.python-list at python.org:

> .. [1] and I get to stay with friends, which is an additional
>    bonus - Duncan, do I have to promise not to talk Python
>    at home?

Judy says that if her eyes glaze over you are talking too much Python (or 
perhaps I am).

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From gtalvola at attbi.com  Sun Mar 31 20:00:40 2002
From: gtalvola at attbi.com (Geoffrey Talvola)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:00:40 -0500
Subject: Webware for Python 0.7
Message-ID: <20020401005602.IGOR1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@there>

Webware for Python 0.7 is now available!

Webware for Python is a suite of software components for developing 
object-oriented, web-based applications.  The suite uses well known design 
patterns and includes popular features such as:

* A fast, easy-to-use application server
* Servlets
* Python Server Pages (PSP)
* Object-relational mapper
* Task scheduler
* User manager with authentication
* CGI wrapper

Key goals of the project include:

* Python-oriented.
* Object-oriented.
* An expansive suite of components and features to cover common needs of web 
developers.
* Modular architecture where components can be used together or independently.
* Excellent documentation and numerous examples.
* Open source development and community (Python-style license).

For more information or to download Webware 0.7 see 
http://webware.sourceforge.net

------------------------------------------------
Changes since version 0.6.1:

Python 2.0 or higher is now required.

Components of Webware no longer have independent version
numbers.  There is just an overall Webware version number.
Each component still has an independent status of
alpha, beta, etc.

New option "gobblewhitespace" in Python Server Pages lets
you write if/else and try/except statements in a more
natural manner.

New option "formatter" in Python Server Pages lets you
specify an alternate formatter function to use instead of
str().

New feature in MiddleKit: model inheritance.  See the
user's guide for details.

Improvements to the CSV functionality in MiscUtils.

WebKit features:
  - PickleRPC as a more Pythonic alternative to XML-RPC
  - SessionPrefix setting that can be used with mod_rewrite
    for easy load balancing with session affinity
  - improved exception reporting hooks
  - EmailErrorReportAsAttachment setting can be used to
    send HTML error pages as attachments
  - minor bug fixes

Major speed improvements in MiddleKit.


-- 

- Geoff Talvola
  gtalvola at attbi.com



From neal at metaslash.com  Wed Mar 20 15:06:47 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:06:47 -0500
Subject: ANN: PyChecker v0.8.10 released
Message-ID: <3C98EBD7.90E34BF7@metaslash.com>

A new version of PyChecker is available for your hacking pleasure.

        PyChecker is a tool for finding bugs in Python source code.
        It finds problems that are typically caught by a compiler for less
        dynamic languages, like C and C++.  It is similar to lint.

Comments, criticisms, new ideas, and other feedback is welcome.


NOTE:  This is the last release I plan to support Python 1.5.2.


Changes from 0.8.9 to 0.8.10:
  * Add --unpack option to warn when unpacking a non-sequence
  * Add --unpacklen option to warn when unpacking sequence of wrong size
  * Add --changetypes option to warn when setting a variable to different types
  * Add --stringiter option to warn when iterating over a string
  * Add --input option to warn when using input()
  * Fix crash with checking properties or deriving from objects (2.2 only)
  * Fix crash with nested scopes and lambdas
  * Fix spurious warnings for constant conditionals when using ('%s' % value)
  * Fix spurious warnings for unused identifiers caused by from XXX import *
  * Add more information when module cannot be imported
  * Fix spurious warnings for implicit returns when using while 1:
  * Fix spurious warnings for implicit returns when using try/finally:
  * Fix spurious warning with globals that start w/__
  * Fix spurious warnings for modifying default arguments 
        when calling {}.get(), {}.has_key(), [].index(), [].count(), etc.
  * Fix spurious warnings in Python 1.5.2 when using from/import


PyChecker is available on Source Forge:
    Web page:           http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/
    Project page:       http://sourceforge.net/projects/pychecker/
    Mailling List:      pychecker-list at lists.sourceforge.net

Neal
--
pychecker-list at lists.sourceforge.net



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Thu Mar 28 17:02:14 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:02:14 GMT
Subject: mutliple search and replace
References: <mailman.1017263863.2060.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GpMo8.22098$EE4.72810@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

hey Gustavo,

actually i wished to do the replacement in one sweep and occuring in any
order.. to avoid problems.. is it easy?

cheers


"Gustavo Cordova" <gcordova at hebmex.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017263863.2060.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Suppose i have a map (or two lists). is it possible to make a
> > sweep through
> > a string to find all occurances of key's in the map then
> > replace them all in
> > one sweep?
> >
> > cheers
> > trung
> >
>
> Sure, only that there's not a builtin function that does that,
> but it sounds easy enough to make it:
>
> def ReplaceLots(String, RDict):
>     "Replace all occurrences of all keys in RDict inside String"
>     for k in RDict:
>         String = String.replace(k, RDict[k])
>     return String
>
> Simple, eh? Yeah, that's Python for ya. :-)
>
> -gustavo
>




From gmcm at hypernet.com  Fri Mar 22 09:08:24 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 14:08:24 GMT
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
References: <mailman.1016754947.17945.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91D95CFD09605gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.215>

Geoffrey Talvola wrote:

> I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by themselves if
> there is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?  Is it
> possible to control this behavior?  Just a link to some documentation
> of this behavior would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I don't think the same thing happens on Linux, or maybe it does but the
> timeout is longer than 4 minutes there.
> 
> I've attached a set of 2 test scripts that provoke the behavior.  Start
> up server.py first, then client.py, then wait 4 minutes.

Does it help to note that if you change:

>     time.sleep(250)

to time.sleep(15), then the socket closes after 15 seconds?

Your client does a shutdown(1) after sending some data.
The shutdown(1) causes the server to fall out of the
receive loop. It then sleeps for however long specified,
sends some data and closes the socket.

In other words, the behavior is exactly what you asked
for, and Windows' socket implementation has nothing to
do with it.

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Fri Mar 22 15:12:23 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:12:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Puzzling difference between module and package.module
Message-ID: <slrna9n416.1tc.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

A mystery for everyone's curiosity!  (It might even be a Python bug.)

I hope someone can recognize what would cause 
    import dir2.file1   # in dir1
    import file1        # in dir1/dir2

to behave quite differently in the following directory structure:
    dir1
        dir2
            __init__.py   (empty file)
            file1.py

Here's a test program that uses the Gnuplot package:

------------------- test_plot.py ------------
x = [range(5), range(1,6)]
from Gnuplot import Gnuplot
g = Gnuplot()
g.plot(x)
from time import sleep
sleep(.1)
print 'after sleep'
---------------------------------------------

It is OK to run 'import test_plot' in dir2.  But running 'import
dir2.test_plot' in dir1 generates an error:

after sleep
tmpfile /tmp/@2065.0 None <Gnuplot.PlotItems.TempFile instance at 0x81bf78c>
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute
'system'" in <bound method TempFile.__del__ of <Gnuplot.PlotItems.TempFile
instance at 0x81bf78c>> ignored 

When trying in an interpreter, the error comes up while exiting the interpreter.
The relevant sections are (I've added some diagnostic statements)

-------------------- Gnuplot/PlotItems.py --------------------
import os, string, tempfile
class TempFile(AnyFile):
    def __del__(self):
        try:
            os.unlink(self.filename)
        except:
            print 'tmpfile', self.filename, `os`, self
            os.system('ls -l %s' % self.filename)
            raise SystemExit
---------------------------------------------------------------
        
So it appears that Gnuplot.PlotItems.os somehow becomes None.  How does that
happen?   I can understand that if the module attribute simply dissappears,
that would be caused by a mismatched order of clean up.  But how is it
changed to None?

It appears that this bug first appeared in Python 2.2:

$ echo import testdir.test_plot | python2.0
after sleep
$ echo import testdir.test_plot | python2.1
after sleep
$ echo import testdir.test_plot | python2.2
after sleep
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute
'unlink'" in <bound method TempFile.__del__ of <Gnuplot.PlotItems.TempFile
instance at 0x81bd034>> ignored 
$ echo import testdir.test_plot | python2.3
after sleep
tmpfile /tmp/@2252.0 None <Gnuplot.PlotItems.TempFile instance at 0x81bf8cc>
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute
'system'" in <bound method TempFile.__del__ of <Gnuplot.PlotItems.TempFile
instance at 0x81bf8cc>> ignored 

The versions used are:
Python 2.0 (#1, Mar  1 2001, 02:42:21) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Python 2.1 (#1, Oct  2 2001, 15:35:43) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Python 2.2 (#4, Mar  6 2002, 14:33:41) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Python 2.3a0 (#5, Mar 20 2002, 12:38:28) [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2

Should I file a bug report?

Huaiyu


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 10 23:03:33 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:03:33 -0800
Subject: New Member
References: <mailman.1015813458.8538.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6ge6m.3vse70n.1@kserver.org>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:22:58 -0000, "j45729" <spacedweller at hotmail.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1015813458.8538.python-list at python.org>:

> Hi i'd like to introduce myself.  My name is Jon.  I think Python is 
> one of the coolest scripting languages!  I'm a new student and i'm 
> enjoying learning Python.  I hope to use Python in many applications 
> for the web and for problem solving and anything else.  I think it 
> will be fun!  I'm so glad i have all of you here for my support!  
> what a great plus in learning this language is having so many who are 
> interested in the same language.  

Welcome Jon,

It is always nice to hear another, enthusiastic response to Python. Welcome
to the community!

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar 14 14:02:43 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:02:43 +0100
Subject: Conditional Import
References: <mailman.1016126245.18593.python-list@python.org> <a6qr70$cg8$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6qs4d$gb0ko$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:a6qr70$cg8$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <mailman.1016126245.18593.python-list at python.org>,
> Gustavo Cordova  <gcordova at hebmex.com> wrote:
> >
> > from exceptions import ImportError
> > try:
> > from codeop import CommandCompiler
> > except ImportError:
> > from MockCommandCompiler import CommandCompiler
>
> Exceptions are automatically imported; no need for the first line.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
> to post the wrong information.  --Aahz

... and you just proved it :-) (I mean that "the best way to get information
on Usenet ....")




From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 19:17:31 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:17:31 -0800
Subject: Exceptions and modules / namespaces question
In-Reply-To: <a80av4$omfbt$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
References: <1136f745.0203281521.76a1a62c@posting.google.com>
	<a80av4$omfbt$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20020328161731.664c9cfe.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:15 -0800
Emile van Sebille wrote:

> Preston Landers
> > The problem, in a nutshell, is that I can't seem to catch an exception
> > in the same module it was defined in if the function that raised the
> > exception is in a different module, because of naming issues.
> >
> 
> It seems to me that you have a __main__ vs module1 issue.  When module2
> imports module1, it gets a new copy, not __main__.
> 
> > -------module2.py:
> >
> > import module1
> >
> > def raise_foo_exception():
> >    raise module1.FooException("HELLO")
> >
> > -------module1.py:
> >
> > import exceptions, sys
> >
> > class FooException(exceptions.Exception):
> >    pass
> >
> > def main():
> >
> >    try:
> >        import module2
> 
> if you import module1 here
> 
> 
> >        module2.raise_foo_exception()
> >    except FooException, e:
> 
> then except module1.FooException
> 
> it may work.  Better perhaps to define your exceptions in a separate
> module and import it into both.

I failed to notice that his main() function was also in module1 (replying
without reading is a specialty of mine ;)  Maybe this will make the
namespace issue clearer

    except module2.module1.FooException, e:

works, but it would obviously be cleaner if both the main program and
module2 imported module1.  /Then/ he could simply use module1.FooException.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From michael at dynamine.net  Fri Mar 29 18:31:23 2002
From: michael at dynamine.net (Michael S. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:31:23 -0800
Subject: IOError on file close
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020329151428.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <ua9sfc1ighfi36@corp.supernews.com> <XFMail.20020329151428.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020329233122.GB10345@attrition.dynamine.net>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 03:14:28PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

> > That indeed appears to be the case, but it looks like a bug in the 
> > kernel to me.
> 
> why? /proc/scsi/scsi is clearly marked 444 on my machine, not 644.

It's ENOSYS, not EPERM.  I'm running this script as root.

Specifically, the code is here in the Linux kernel (2.4.17), in
drivers/scsi/scsi.c:

    for (scd = HBA_ptr->host_queue; scd; scd = scd->next) {
            if ((scd->channel == channel
                  && scd->id == id
                  && scd->lun == lun)) {
                    break;
            }
    }

    err = -ENOSYS;
    if (scd)
            goto out;       /* We do not yet support unplugging */

-- 
Michael S. Fischer / michael at dynamine.net / +1 650-533-4684
Lead Hacketeer, Dynamine Consulting, Silicon Valley, CA



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 20:06:48 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 01:06:48 GMT
Subject: range Failure?
References: <3C8B84B6.DB3F8E9A@sympatico.ca> <a6gm57$18f$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8BFB9C.1EF90FAB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a6gvv8$rc3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:34:36 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:07:18 -0500, "Colin J. Williams" <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> [...]
>> >It might say:
>> >
>> >     range([start= 0,] stop[, step= 1])
>> 
>> Still, the two optional []'s are not valid in all combinations,
>> (which is what you fix with your improved text ;-)
>> so maybe it should say something like:
>> 
>>      range([start= 0,] stop)          # where step defaults to 1, or
>>      range(start, stop [, step= 1])
>
>Why not be very explicit, rather than fancy and confusing?  
>The above is an improvement over the original, but perhaps 
>this is better?
>
>  range(stop)                   # start is 0, step is 1
>  range(start, stop [, step=1])
>
Yes, that is better.

>Answering my own question: the first of the three is pretty bad.
>The second one suffers from implying that Python can have optional
>positional arguments which come before non-optional ones.  The 
>third suffers from implying (perhaps?) that Python can have 
>overloaded methods.
>
>Since range() doesn't take keyword arguments, even my second
>one above could be considered a little bit confusing, if you 
>think that implies you can say range(1, 6, step=2) which you
>cannot.
>
I guess it's a matter of defining the grammar of usage documentation.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cja at dds.nl  Thu Mar 14 16:19:26 2002
From: cja at dds.nl (Chris Abraham)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:19:26 -0500
Subject: Python/Zope App for Email Activist Alert (WALD) tool?
Message-ID: <a6r46j021b5@enews1.newsguy.com>

Hi:

I am building a web-based application that intends to accept membership
(free) and each member will be alerted as to an event (generally Senate,
House, White House, corporation) via an email message that can then me
responded to via clicking back to a web site where you edit a form letter
and then submit this protest to be delivered to its intended politician.

Like Working Asset's Alert Network?

Is there an open souce web application like this?  Zope sounds perfect for
this! Whether attached to the ZODB or to MySQL.

Cheers & Thanks!

Chris




From Van at Lindbergs.org  Sun Mar 24 11:19:23 2002
From: Van at Lindbergs.org (VanL)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:19:23 -0700
Subject: Embedding help
Message-ID: <3C9DFC8B.5070700@Lindbergs.org>

Hello,

I'm trying to embed python in a C program.  I already have the 
libraries, header files, linker options, etc worked out -- I can compile 
and run a program that embeds a  python module both with the python/C 
api and with Mark Lutz's ppembed API.  I can also move values between 
python and C.

The problem is that I'm not sure how to maintain state in the python 
class I'm using.  

Ideally, I would only like to expose four functions to C:

(called once)  setup(int type)
This would initialize python and a python class with the passed-in value 
(Used internally by the python class).
This python class would also import other modules (both builtin and 
custom; the custom ones would be pure python)

(called repeatedly)  update(int x, int y, int z)
This would update state within the python class instance

(called repeatedly)  getPt()
This would fetch some variables from the python class instance, put them 
into a struct, and return the struct

(called once)  cleanup()
Self explanatory.

My problem is the following:
How do I keep the class instance around so that I can maintain state? 
 The getPt function would return variables that in part are functions of 
previous inputs, not just the current input.

Please help! It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Van




From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Mon Mar  4 14:27:19 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:27:19 +0100
Subject: Can Python do this?
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3C83CA8D.C12A4F76@accessforall.nl>


Robert Oschler wrote:
> 
> Hello, Python newbie here.
> 
> Let's say I'd like to build a method name into a string variable (e.g.
> "FuncCall" + "1" to attempt to call "FuncCall1").  Can I then call that
> method by somehow having the interpreter evaluate the string variable into a
> call to the desired method? (I know this is usually done in a language like
> Prolog or Lisp but I'm hoping Python can do it too.)

Although you'd probably better use a dictionary of functions,
you might try:

  result = eval("FuncCall" + "1" + "()")

or:
 
  function = globals()["FuncCall" + "1"]
  result = function()

or:

  import sys
  function = getattr(sys.modules[__name__], "FuncCall" + "1")
  result = function()

In case you need a variable number of arguments, have a look
at apply:

  theArgs = (1,2,3)
  result = apply(function, theArgs)


Have fun. Python can be quite Lispy.

Ype


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 20 21:11:00 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:11:00 +1100
Subject: ANN: Logging Module v0.4 released
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0203201754.50a15e80@posting.google.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0203201754.50a15e80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200203210211.CAA14633@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> A new version of the proposed Python standard logging module (as per
> PEP 282) has been released. You can get all the information from

Having looked at the excellent work being done here, I wonder what's 
happening at the other end of the pipeline. That is, what's listening for the 
events that the logger is generating? Has anyone got any plans to write a 
logging sink for the other end?

The sink would perform the following duties:
 - accept events from the logging module via all the logging module's
   handlers
 - present a display of the events to a user, either graphically or
   textually (the most basic of these would resemble the UNIX tail -f)
 - redistribution of events to other targets
 - filter incoming events, possibly aggregating, possibly dropping
 - have state which would be affected by the filters and may cause new
   events to be generated (ie. escalation)

Anyone think this is a good idea?


     Richard



From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar  7 07:26:39 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:26:39 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org> <6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> <just-6353F6.13105107032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <u3czc4l2t.fsf@python.net>

Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> writes:

> I don't want any of these, but then again, I don't want "for i in 4" 
> either. I think it's an awful idea.

Well, so long as your brother thinks the same, those of us in the
"anti" camp don't have to worry, right?  At least, that's what I've
been hoping.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  MARVIN:  Oh dear, I think you'll find reality's on the blink again.
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 12


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar 18 11:47:26 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:47:26 +0300
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
In-Reply-To: <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>; from woodsplitter@rocketmail.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:37:06AM -0800
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org> <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020318194726.C7655@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:37:06AM -0800, David Rushby wrote:
> Unfortunately, contrary to Oleg's assertion in c.l.py and Barry's in
> his message added to the SF bug report, the CVS version of has *not*
> been fixed.

   It was fixed for me :) That is, I had the problem, reported it, got back
suggestion to use CVS version, checked it out - and hurray! - the bug was
fixed... at least my program started to work.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From jennyw at colorfulexpressions.com  Sat Mar 16 14:44:07 2002
From: jennyw at colorfulexpressions.com (jennyw)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 11:44:07 -0800
Subject: Sample Python programs to look at?
Message-ID: <327f0ccd.0203161144.14299a4c@posting.google.com>

Hi there! I was just wondering if someone could suggest sample Python
programs to look at.  Something complicated enough for me to get a
feel for what programming something non-trivial would be like, but not
so complex that it's overwhelming.  In particular, I'm interested in
database access (e.g. MySQL) and IMAP access, so if there's a smallish
app. w/ source out there that someone could point me to, that'd be
great!

Thanks!

Jen


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Mar 18 02:47:23 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 07:47:23 GMT
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
References: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1015263607.7574.python-list@python.org> <avPg8.11102$hK4.4053571@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a7462b$11ve$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <avPg8.11102$hK4.4053571 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>, 
 Eric Torstenson wrote:

> OK I figured it out. It was a misleading error message.  For those with
> similar troubles I have listed an explanation (and I was being stupid...I
> sort of figured as much)

> It was a bad path name after all. It is a nested structure, where at one
> point I left off one extra "\" (I'm using windows). I had looked at that
> path a dozen times, somehow missing that single "\" down toward the
> middle....


> "Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1015263607.7574.python-list at python.org...
>> On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 11:31:46AM -0600, Eric Torstenson wrote:
>>>         self.fLog=open(filename, mode='w')
>>>     IOError: invalid argument: w

>> Do you have the os module imported? Especially in the form
>> "from os import *" or "from os import open"?

>> Oleg.

 In other words it was another case of: r"use raw strings for 
 filename literals under Win Python!"



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Mar 13 03:04:53 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:04:53 GMT
Subject: python -c cmd bug?
References: <e7e4eac4.0203122354.6fdf3324@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <FKDj8.31519$l93.6228049@newsb.telia.net>

"erik_w" wrote:

> When I do
> >python -c "import sys;print sys.argv"
> ['-c']
>
> (Python 2.1.2 on NT4)
>
> Is this the right behaviour?  I would expect that the -c was an option
> to the python interpreter, not to my script.

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-sys.html

    "argv"

    "The list of command line arguments passed to
    a Python script. argv[0] is the script name (it is
    operating system dependent whether this is a full
    pathname or not). If the command was executed
    using the -c command line option to the interpreter,
    argv[0] is set to the string '-c'. If no script name
    was passed to the Python interpreter, argv has
    zero length."

</F>




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 30 20:22:46 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 20:22:46 -0500
Subject: Subclass sadness (was Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type)
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017504362.25937.python-list@python.org> <slrnaacavs.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a85od6$9i$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnaacavs.2gs.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On 30 Mar 2002 11:04:13 -0500, Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> wrote:
>>
>>I wonder if this is the circle-ellipse problem over again?
>
>What is the circle-ellipse problem?

I'm not sure, but I'm going to guess for my own edification:

Instead of circle/ellipse, it's slightly easier to talk about
square/rectangle.  In terms of standard geometry, a square is a subset
of rectangles, such that height and width are identical.  But in OO
terms, it's a bit more complicated to inherit square from rectangle,
because square has only side-length attribute where rectangle has two
(height and width).  So to create a class square that inherits from
rectangle, you either have to write special code that ties height and
width together or you have to delete at least one of the attributes (in
which case any code expecting to work with rectangle fails).

This kind of thing is what makes the Deitel book on Python really bad,
because it doesn't give a clean picture of proper OOP (they make circle
a subclass of point, and cylinder a subclass of circle, which is even a
worse botch than trying to deal with circle/ellipse).

In general, I think the evidence has shown that subclassing is an
exercise fraught with danger and should be de-emphasized as a primary
technique in OOP.  I'm very glad that Python uses implicit protocols
through magic methods for much of its OO processing; that makes it much
easier to cut through the Gordian Knot.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From rxg218 at psu.edu  Tue Mar 26 18:35:20 2002
From: rxg218 at psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:35:20 -0500
Subject: is'nt Tkinter a standard module?
Message-ID: <a7r0jl$253u@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>

Hi,
  I'm trying to run Sketch on my Linux box (RH 7.2) with Python 1.5.2
However when I run sketch I get:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/sketch", line 34, in ?
    Sketch.main.main()
  File "/usr/local/lib/sketch-0.6.13/Sketch/Base/main.py", line 142, in main
    Sketch.init_ui()
  File "/usr/local/lib/sketch-0.6.13/Sketch/__init__.py", line 187, in 
init_ui
    __import__(name)
  File "/usr/local/lib/sketch-0.6.13/Script/export_raster.py", line 46, in ?
    from Sketch.UI.sketchdlg import SKModal 
  File "/usr/local/lib/sketch-0.6.13/Sketch/UI/sketchdlg.py", line 64, in ?
    from Tkinter import Toplevel, IntVar, Frame, Checkbutton, Label
ImportError: No module named Tkinter

Is'nt the Tkinter module supposed to be a standard part of Python? I 
installed Pythomn from RPM's - or am I supposed to get the Tkinter modules 
from somewhere else?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajarshi Guha                  | email: rajarshi at presidency.com
417 Davey Laboratory           | web  : http:// www.jijo.cjb.net
Dept. Of Chemistry             | ICQ  : 123242928
Pennsylvania State University  | AIM  : LoverOfPanda
-------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Fingerprint: DCCB 4D1A 5A8B 2F5A B5F6  1F9E CDC4 5574 9017 AF2A 
Public Key     : http://pgp.mit.edu/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paper or plastic?
Not 'Not paper AND not plastic!!'
               -- Augustus DeMorgan in a grocery store         



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 11:08:32 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:08:32 +0000
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it>
Message-ID: <slrna91io0.ha5.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:35:53 +0100, Federico Caboni <msx at crs4.it> wrote:
>
>I recently bought "Programming Python" by O'Really,

Oh. Really?

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From joonas at olen.to  Fri Mar  1 17:28:02 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:28:02 +0200
Subject: Securely passing arguments when opening a pipe to a program
References: <3C7FE115.9832EE5C@olen.to> <a5ord9$24nu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3C800072.43CEC524@olen.to>

Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> Quoth Joonas Paalasmaa <joonas at olen.to>:
> | I am using Gnokii to send SMS messages with Python. Gnokii is started
> | with
> | popen2.popen2 like this:
> |
> | gnokiiRead, gnokiiWrite = popen2.popen2("gnokii --sendsms %s" %
> | phonenumber)
> | gnokiiWrite.write(message)
> | gnokiiWrite.close()
> | response = gnokiiRead.read()
> | gnokiiRead.close()
> |
> | The problem is that the phonenumber string is not safe; it can even be
> | "000; rm -fR ~/*". How can I securely pass arguments when opening the
> | pipe?
> | Is there a way to pass the arguments like in os.execv.
> 
> Yes!  I hear this isn't documented as well as it could be, but
> popen2 accepts either a string or a sequence, and in the latter
> case the sequence is argv, like in os.execv.

Thanks for the answer. I wonder why this very helpful feature isn't
documented in os-module's documentation?


From aseem at neurobs.com  Thu Mar 21 12:09:38 2002
From: aseem at neurobs.com (A M)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 09:09:38 -0800
Subject: HTTP session objects
Message-ID: <ed6d1c1a.0203210909.70d36a32@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

Does python have the ability to r/w and use HTTP session objects like
servlets. Is there a third party tool or API available to allow us to
use it in Python.

Any help or references to resources will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

A


From frederic.giacometti at arakne.com  Sun Mar  3 16:47:41 2002
From: frederic.giacometti at arakne.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:47:41 GMT
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <KyEd8.66437$dG.27580630@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <987e7uoo5v87fsjruq0ug6bff0vha5ear0@4ax.com> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com>


Aahz Maruch wrote:

> In article <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291 at news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>,
> Frederic Giacometti <frederic.giacometti at arakne.com> wrote:
> >
> >In addition to all the benefits that Christian has described so far,
> >stackless python would make it possible to have a different OS
> >multi-threading implementation for calling external C/C++ libraries; one
> >that does not require interpreter lock operations.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >Stackless just means that function calls executed by the bytecode are
> >executed by a C function that returns immediately; thus disconnecting
> >the C call stack from the virtual machine call stack.  In current
> >python, they are interleaved one-on-one; making it impossible to switch
> >context within the VM unnless you do Christian's last 'non-portable'
> >assembly language manipulation.
>
> How's that again?  In the absence of pre-emptive thread scheduling, what
> good is the immediate return from the C function?  More than that, how
> can you possibly call external libraries without the interpreter lock,
> if those libraries have any access to Python variables?  If they *don't*
> have access to Python, how is that any different from just using the
> macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS?

Just reverse the paradigm: have the python VM run in a single thread, using
stackless microthreads for python multithreading, and run the C calls in a pool of
threads.
This way: no lock is needed, since only one thread runs the VM, with the help of
microthreads, and C calls run in other threads.

FG




From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 16 05:17:59 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 02:17:59 -0800
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com>        <mailman.1016201064.16243.python-list@python.org>        <b03e80d.0203151427.7803754b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016232414.9059.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203160217.24d4b5cc@posting.google.com>

> Skip> How did you "psycoize pystone"?
> 
>     Sandy> Basically, I took the pystone included in Armin's psyco cvs
>     Sandy> distribution and simplified the main() function to get rid of the
>     Sandy> comparitive stuff.
> 
> Modification of the source to pystone is a no-no, otherwise you're comparing
> apples and oranges.  Instead, try something like
> 
>     >>> import pystone
>     >>> pystone.main()
>     Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.51
>     This machine benchmarks at 3984.06 pystones/second
>     >>> pystone.main()
>     Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.54
>     This machine benchmarks at 3937.01 pystones/second
>     >>> pystone.main()
>     Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.53
>     This machine benchmarks at 3952.57 pystones/second
>     >>> import psyco
>     >>> pystone.Proc0 = psyco.proxy(pystone.Proc0)
>     >>> pystone.Proc1 = psyco.proxy(pystone.Proc1)
>     >>> pystone.Proc8 = psyco.proxy(pystone.Proc8)
>     >>> pystone.main()
>     Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 0.58
>     This machine benchmarks at 17241.4 pystones/second
>     >>> pystone.main()
>     Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 0.57
>     This machine benchmarks at 17543.9 pystones/second
>     >>> pystone.main()
>     Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 0.58
>     This machine benchmarks at 17241.4 pystones/second

I agree that your method is cleaner. My modification, however, was
actually an attempt to bring the version of pystone included in psyco
cvs closer to the one in the standard python distro, all while
retaining Armin's explicit use of psyco.proxy()

Just for comparison here are the main functions of each version of
psyco:

Standard pystone (py22 distro)
------------------------------
def main():
    benchtime, stones = pystones()
    print "Pystone(%s) time for %d passes = %g" % \
          (__version__, LOOPS, benchtime)
    print "This machine benchmarks at %g pystones/second" % stones


My modified psyco pystone (psyco cvs distro)
----------------------------------------------
def main():
    print "Pystone(%s) time loops per second" % __version__
    psy_time = pystones_psycho(LOOPS)[0]
    print "Psyco for %d passes %g %g" % (LOOPS, psy_time, mydiv(LOOPS,
psy_time))


Unmodified psyco psytone (psyco cvs distro)
-------------------------------------------
def main():
    print "Pystone(%s)                   time     loops per second" %
__version__
    py_time, = pystones_reg(LOOPS1+LOOPS)
    pyloop_time = py_time / (LOOPS1+LOOPS)
    print "regular Python for %d passes  %g        %g" % \
          (LOOPS1+LOOPS, py_time, mydiv(1, pyloop_time))
    psy_time1, psy_time = pystones_psycho(LOOPS1, LOOPS)
    print "Psyco for %d passes           %g        %g" % \
          (LOOPS1, psy_time1, mydiv(LOOPS1, psy_time1))
    print "Psyco for %d more passes      %g        %g" % \
          (LOOPS, psy_time, mydiv(LOOPS, psy_time))
    print "Total for %d passes           %g        %g" % \
          (LOOPS1+LOOPS, psy_time1+psy_time, 
             mydiv(LOOPS1+LOOPS, psy_time1+psy_time))

    # invert the equation system:
    #   psy_time1          = start_time + LOOPS1*loop_time
    #   psy_time1+psy_time = start_time + (LOOPS1+LOOPS)*loop_time
    loop_time = psy_time/LOOPS
    start_time = psy_time1 - LOOPS1*loop_time
    print "Separated compilation/execution timings for %d passes" % \
          (LOOPS1+LOOPS)
    print "Compilation (i.e. start-up)   %g        %g" % \
          (start_time, mydiv(1, start_time))
    print "Machine code execution        %g        %g" % \
          (loop_time*(LOOPS1+LOOPS), mydiv(1, loop_time))
    print
    print "Relative execution frequencies (iterations per second)"
    print "iterations        Psyco        Python    Psyco is ... times
faster"
    for d in range(8):
        n = 10**d
        psyco1 = mydiv(n, start_time+n*loop_time)
        print " %8d       %g         %g           %.2f" % \
            (n, psyco1, mydiv(1, pyloop_time), psyco1*pyloop_time)

    # invert the equation
    #   start_time + c*loop_time = c*pyloop_time
    if pyloop_time <= loop_time:
        print "Psyco is always slower than regular Python."
    else:
        c = mydiv(start_time, pyloop_time - loop_time)
        print "Cut-off point: %.1f iterations" % c
    if start_time < 0.07:
        print "Note: start-up time is very low, the above figure is
not reliable."
        print "You should consider running the same benchmark a large
number of times"
        print "and taking the mean value for the cut-off point."

--------

What's important in any case is that Psyco most definitely accelerates
your code. I've actually tried it in a practical example using certain
calculations with sparse matrices and it more than halved my execution
time.

regards,

Sandy


From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Mar  2 08:53:31 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 15:53:31 +0200
Subject: Possible to fake object type?
Message-ID: <3c80e76b@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Hi,

suppose I have the following code:

class Dockable:
    "Represents a dockable window"
    
    def __init__( self, childclass, handlepos = gtk.POS_LEFT ):
        self.__dict__["_handlebox"] = gtk.HandleBox()
        self.__dict__["_child"] = childclass()
        self._handlebox.add( self._child )

    def __getattr__( self, attr ):
        print "requesting attribut: '%s'" % attr
        return self.__dict__.get( attr, None ) \
            or getattr( self._child, attr )



Dockable is composition of two classes trying to
mimick the interface of the childclass and thus hiding
that the childclass is embedded in a HandleBox.

So far so good. The Problem: PyGTK (which I'm using)
has typechecking. I cannot use my composition class
instead of a - say gtk.HandleBox(), because I get, for instance:

TypeError: child should be a GtkWidget

It's no option to make Dockable a GtkWidget, for instance,
by deriving it from gtk.HandleBox, because GtkWidget itself
contains methods which I call on a Dockable but which should
be reflected to the _child rather than be handled by the
- then - baseclass GtkWidget.

So: Is it possible to fake the type of a class or
is it possible to magically override the method call "bouncing"
to the base class ?

Yours,

:M:
--
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Dipl.-Inf. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer    mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de |
|   Raum 10b - ++49 69 798 28358        Fachbereich Informatik und Biologie  |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|


From ken at ineffable.com  Fri Mar  8 11:48:41 2002
From: ken at ineffable.com (Ken Causey)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 10:48:41 -0600
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020307091226.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <XFMail.20020307091226.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <1015606121.399.17.camel@temp>

On Thu, 2002-03-07 at 11:12, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> > 
> > The user of SGMLParser needs to be able to handle invalid tags.  This
> > handling may be complex or as simple as just ignoring it and asking
> > SGMLParser to skip this tag and move along.  As far as I can tell this
> > is not an option.
> > 
> > As a side note, the text error message thrown is particularly
> > uninformation as it simply includes the first letter of the tag, in
> > other words always '<'.
> > 
> 
> match = special.match(rawdata, i)
> if match:
>     if self.literal:
>         self.handle_data(rawdata[i])
>         i = i+1
>         continue
>     # This is some sort of declaration; in "HTML as
>     # deployed," this should only be the document type
>     # declaration ("<!DOCTYPE html...>").
>     k = self.parse_declaration(i)
>     if k < 0: break
>     i = k
>     continue
> 
> is the offending code.  'special' is defined as re.compile(r'<![^<>]*>').
> 
> I see two options:
> 
> 1) change the definition of special to a noop match.  Something that is
> relatively cheap but can never match.
> 
> 2) write your own parse_declaration() method.
> 

Well, I upgraded to Python2.2, which didn't exactly fix the problem, but
changed the complexion somewhat.  For now I decided to hack up sgmllib
so that any SGMLParseError's on tags starting with <! simple result in
the tag being skipped.  It's not pretty, but it gets me past this
problem.  SGMLParse really needs to supply some mechanism for handling
the case of a bad tag.

Ken




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 15:26:48 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:26:48 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
Message-ID: <OFE90F5871.5F93CAA2-ON88256B72.006F4259@i2.com>

Carel,

Thanks for the explanation, below.  Very interesting.

Yes, I agree with your basic analysis that producing an iterator for an
integer makes a lot more sense if one accepts integers as first-class
objects.  The fact that Python treats integers as well as everything else
as first-class objects is one of the big reasons why I like Python so much.

Jim

===========================================================================

Carel Fellinger wrote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Jim, I think I finally solved the riddle.

>From your first post on this subject I had this voice in the back of
my head telling me: think objects.  The post I'm responding to now
reinforced that voice, so I finally gave in:)

In 2.2 we happily see the type/class split healed.  And one of the
consequences of that is that we now *see* that integers have methods,
we can even call them:

    >>> (1).__add__(2)
    3

To you, comming from smalltalk, that's just how it's supposed to be,
but to me it looks a little awkward.  Probably because to me integers
are a mathematical abstraction, and I don't see how it could know how
to add.  Addition is something that's not inherent to integers but a
layer that's put on top of integers.  I guess this just goes to show
my ignorance on mathematical issues:(

And now you're stretching this object oriented view of integers even
further.  You ask an integer to iterate or, if you like, to count.


The funny thing however is that I don't have this reservation with
strings:) Strings to me have always been a programmers construct,
there are no character strings in the real world, but they sure come
in handy in a program.  When I made the switch to OO I saw that it was
practical and sound to put the actions and the data together.  So the
same for strings.  I ask a string whether it has uppercase chars, I
ask it to split itself, to count itself (len).  I'm even prepared to
ask it to translate itself. No problem.  I just never made that step
for numbers.

And I'm not alone in that.  I remember from the 80's that there were
heated discussions whether to go `all the way' and define integers to
be objects or stop at the level of some primitive types when defining
the object hierarchy.  There were implementation issues but also
filosofical and usability considerations.  Some language designers
choose to hide the object nature of integers from the programmers and
provided a bunch of syntactic sugar solely to make number manipulation
look more like ordinary math.

To conclude, you propose to go `all the way' with treating integers as
objects, and some of use haven't been exposed to such a thing long
enough to either be blind for its pecularity or to finally appreciate
its soundness.

I think given enough time and exposure I can get to appreciate it,
I don't know for the public in general.  And though we hardly hear
off it these days, Guido is aiming at `programming for everybody'.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




From curtin at ubsw.com  Tue Mar 12 12:35:56 2002
From: curtin at ubsw.com (craig curtin)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 09:35:56 -0800
Subject: nonblocking i/o on windows?
References: <mailman.1015884859.11150.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4c7395cb.0203120935.3f9de2b9@posting.google.com>

skip,
how about:
    hnd=win32file.FindFirstChangeNotification(d , 0,  
winnt.FILE_NOTIFY_CHANGE_LAST_WRITE )
    win32event.WaitForSingleObject(hnd, -1)

craig

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015884859.11150.python-list at python.org>...
> At the end of asyncore.py a non-blocking file_dispatcher class is defined
> like so:
> 
>     class file_dispatcher (dispatcher):
>         def __init__ (self, fd):
>             dispatcher.__init__ (self)
>             self.connected = 1
>             # set it to non-blocking mode
>             flags = fcntl.fcntl (fd, fcntl.F_GETFL, 0)
>             flags = flags | os.O_NONBLOCK
>             fcntl.fcntl (fd, fcntl.F_SETFL, flags)
>             self.set_file (fd)
> 
>         def set_file (self, fd):
>             self._fileno = fd
>             self.socket = file_wrapper (fd)
>             self.add_channel()
> 
> Unfortunately, this uses fcntl, which is only available on Unix systems.  Is
> there something similar on Windows that will allow me to put a Python file
> object in non-blocking mode?  I thought perhaps there would be something
> defined in msvcrt, but I didn't see anything in the lib ref manual or the
> msvcrt source.
> 
> Thx,


From case at ironwater.com  Tue Mar 19 18:41:02 2002
From: case at ironwater.com (Case Van Horsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:41:02 -0800
Subject: Newbie: EOF Error when making arrays .fromfile
References: <33e33d88.0203191243.454d39b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c97cc37$1@solnews.wv.mentorg.com>

Why not use the original file?

import urllib, string, array

data=urllib.urlopen('http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/planet0.dat').readlines()
datapoints=string.split(string.join(data))
coord=array.array('d', map(string.atof, datapoints))

cvh



"Matt Strange" <dnijaguar at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33e33d88.0203191243.454d39b8 at posting.google.com...
> hello all, i am very new to python and i'm using v2.2 on a Win98SE
> machine.  i needed to read in double-type data from an ASCII file
> (http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/planet0.dat).  this file contains 3000
> doubles separated by the tab("\t") value.  after reading information
> posted on this newsgroup, i decided that it would be best to first
> translate this ASCII data into a binary file using a c++ program
> (http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/atb.cpp).  then, i could read in this
> binary file (http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/bin0.dat) with the following
> lines of python:
>
> >>> coord = array('d')
> >>> coord.fromfile(open("bin0.dat",'r'),3000)
>
> however, there is a problem.  i recieve the error:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> EOFError: not enough items in file
>
> and when i type in "coord" from the >>> prompt to see what is stored
> inside it, i see the values listed at the very end of this message;
> i.e. the correct values, but definately not 3000 of them like i
> wanted.  i would appreciate it if someone would tell me the reason i
> am having this problem and the code necessary to fix it (with ASCII or
> binary files). thank you very much for your help.
>
> value of coord shown on command line:
>
> array('d', [100000.0, 10000.0, -10000.0, 99995.0, 10001.0, -9998.0,
> 97469.199999
> 999997, 10493.200000000001, -8994.9799999999996, 94890.199999999997,
> 10969.0, -7
> 986.0299999999997, 92255.0, 11426.4, -6971.3000000000002,
> 89560.100000000006, 11
> 863.4, -5950.9799999999996, 86801.800000000003, 12277.799999999999,
> -4925.369999
> 9999999, 83976.100000000006, 12666.6, -3894.8499999999999,
> 81078.399999999994, 1
> 3026.799999999999, -2859.9699999999998, 78103.5, 13354.6,
> -1821.4400000000001, 7
> 5045.800000000003, 13645.5, -780.21400000000006, 71898.800000000003,
> 13894.20000
> 0000001, 262.42399999999998, 68655.199999999997, 14094.4, 1304.74,
> 65306.5999999
> 99999, 14238.299999999999, 2344.4000000000001, 61843.599999999999,
> 14316.2000000
> 00001, 3378.1500000000001, 58255.099999999999, 14316.299999999999,
> 4401.5, 54528
> .599999999999, 14223.5, 5408.04, 50649.400000000001, 14018.5, 6388.46,
> 46600.699
> 999999997, 13676.4, 7328.8599999999997, 42363.400000000001,
> 13164.299999999999,
> 8207.8999999999996, 37917.5, 12439.6, 8991.7999999999993,
> 33244.199999999997, 11
> 447.799999999999, 9625.9500000000007, 28333.599999999999, 10126.6,
> 10022.7000000
> 00001, 23197.5, 8424.3799999999992, 10051.5, 17877.599999999999,
> 6340.1099999999
> 997, 9557.7600000000002, 12415.1, 3945.0, 8431.9799999999996,
> 6784.3100000000004
> , 1310.78, 6655.5600000000004, 863.47900000000004,
> -1607.8800000000001, 4227.600
> 0000000004, -5535.2299999999996, -5062.9700000000003, 1022.54,
> -12557.1, -9702.5
> 100000000002, -3429.2600000000002, -19426.0, -17103.799999999999,
> -10433.2999999
> 99999, -21219.700000000001, -28053.400000000001, -20689.5,
> -16580.799999999999,
> -38120.0, -30341.599999999999, -9804.4699999999993,
> -46184.900000000001, -38337.
> 099999999999, -2476.6100000000001, -52974.699999999997])




From python at rcn.com  Sat Mar  2 01:46:49 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:46:49 -0500
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1014938330.6533.python-list@python.org> <a5orjv$7j0$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <a5psh2$ga8$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:a5orjv$7j0$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
> Seriously I would like you to add something in your PEP that addresses
> this simple alternative and explain why you favour yours.  True,
> `i in range(len(sequence))' doesn't look very pleasing, but
> `i in indici(sequence)' does. And as an added bonus it's
> very similar to `(i, item) in indexed(sequence)'.
>
>
> > [Carel Fellinger]

Yes!

There is a pair of ideas that are intuitive, clean, and routinely useful:
   for i in indici(seqn)
   for i, item in indexed(seqn)

Both ideas could be implemented as generators and work sequencially
off the iter() of the sequence.  This will accommodate lazy evaluation,
low memory use, objects without a __len__ property, xrange objects,
file objects, and objects with sequencial access defined by __getitem__
-- basically anything that could be used by a 'for item in sequence'.

It may be that 'sequence' isn't the best choice of words.  Iter() takes
a 'collection' and 'for' takes an iterable.  No matter what you call
it, the pair of ideas looks like a great general purpose solution.

I would add one little wrinkle.  Define the functions to have an
optional starting point.  def indici(seqn, start=0).
This will accommodate the common case of using natural numbers
(starting from 1) or less common cases for those who start their
check numbers at 1001.

Let's implement those two ideas, cross-off the todo list
(loop counter iteration proposals), then declare victory and
get on with life.


Raymond Hettinger

"In theory, there is no difference between theory
and practice.  In practice, there is."




From gcordova at hebmex.com  Fri Mar  8 18:45:46 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:45:46 -0600 
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D6892C@SRM201002>

I like the idea. If only as a method to keep all the
data pertaining to a program --images, even-- in a
single file. I hate having to lug around lots of
icons and images just for a single program.

icon = q'###END#OF#ICON###'
aklkflj as.asd.a.s
... lotsa data ...
lkjasd flaskdflakals ak
###END#OF#ICON###

But then, I'm weird that way.

Kinda like a CDATA section in a program. I like it.

But I'm not gonna die without it.

AND before someone else utters "save everything into
a BSD db file and distribute that", don't; it's a
dumb idea.

I'd rather distribute an XML file with lotsa items and
CDATA sections for binary or quoted data.

Hmmm... that doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
Except having to lug around an XML parser, and
all the whatwithyou that it takes. :-(

Hmmm... miniXML is for that...

Please disregard everything I said.

tgif :-)

-gus



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar  5 22:22:01 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0800
Subject: Why KeyError ???
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com> <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <7xvgcabcti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> writes:
> > KeyError: &#353;&#273;&#269;&#263;&#382;
> > >>> a == b
> > 1
> 
> Hmm.  I don't get the same identity check results as you do:
> >>> a = '\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7'
> >>> b = unicode(a,'cp1250')
> >>> a is b
> 0

Try == rather than 'is'.  The docs are a little bit imprecise about
what's supposed to happen here, but 2.2.7 "Mapping types" says about
numeric keys:

    A dictionary's keys are almost arbitrary values. The only types of
    values not acceptable as keys are values containing lists or
    dictionaries or other mutable types that are compared by value rather
    than by object identity. Numeric types used for keys obey the normal
    rules for numeric comparison: if two numbers compare equal (e.g. 1 and
    1.0) then they can be used interchangeably to index the same
    dictionary entry.

That makes it surprising if two unicode strings that compare as ==
don't index the same dictionary item.


From cce at clarkevans.com  Sat Mar 23 17:43:22 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:43:22 -0500
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
Message-ID: <20020323174322.A1111@doublegemini.com>

Hello.  I'm trying to figure out how much memory overhead
is used with using strings, tuples, lists, and maps.
In particular, say I have a nested structure like...

entry = (92939938,"This is one of thousands of map entries",
         """ 
             It even has multi-line data in it, appx 400
             characters per entry.
         ""","2002-31-02 12:20 +500","Dogmeat")
dict = {"Dogmeat":entry,
        # about a thousand more "indexed" entries
       }
lst  = [ entry,
       # about a thousand more entries
       ]

etc.  Is there some rule of thumb that I can use to estimate,
for example, take the character data you have and multiply by
a factor of 4 to find the in-memory footprint of tuples, and
each map is 1K plus 64 bytes per entry..

Best,

Clark



From jriveramerla at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 18:53:53 2002
From: jriveramerla at yahoo.com (Jose Rivera)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 15:53:53 -0800
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122> <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <11e94203.0203261553.24850b7b@posting.google.com>

The URL calculated :
 
 http://avisos.elnorte.com/casa_venta_result.asp?fotos=0&Order=order+by+colonia&Precio_i=-1&Presentacion=Tabla&Precio_f=-1&PLANTAS=0&pagina=1&id_inmueble=3&dia=&RECAMARAS=0&constr_f=-1&COLONIA=0&BANOS=0&Tipo=CASAS&Constr_i=-1&Terreno_i=-1&Terreno_f=-1&zona=0
 
 works on my PC, but:

The first time it gives me the error that you said, but a click on the
http address of iExplorer and an enter on the keyboard load
succesfully the page.

I hope that help to find the problem...


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Mar 29 16:47:19 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:47:19 -0700
Subject: List problem
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DC2@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Jon Cosby [mailto:jcosby at mindspring.com] 
> 
> Can anyone se why this is coming up empty in the "cols" list? 
> I've tried something similar in the interpreter, and 
> everything here looks right. For some reason, it isn't 
> finding any matches here.
> 
[snip]
> 
> # Word dictionary
> dict = "c:\data\dict.txt"

Try either r"c:\data\dict.txt" or "c:\\data\\dict.txt".

-- bjorn



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar  2 03:36:04 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 09:36:04 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1015039444.26128.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ofi7bc3v.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:

> Unfortunately it's all impossible.

Unfortunately, yes. Let me explain how this will work under PEP 263.

>  * All my existing Python code should continue to run.

They will, but you will might get a DeprecationWarning; eventually,
your code might stop being accepted.

>  * I shouldn't have to understand what Unicode is, if all I want
>    is to bang out a quick script to say "hello world" in my native
>    language.

You won't need to understand what Unicode is. You will need to
understand what encodings are, though, i.e. you should know that "Gr??
Gott" requires Latin-1. With that knowledge, you can either change the
system default encoding, or put an encoding declaration in your file.

>  * I should be able to send Python files to other people in
>    other countries, and they should run fine there too.

That will work for the encoding declaration case (either with the
Unicode marker, or the UTF-8 signature). If people have changed the
system default encoding, this property may not hold.

>  * I should be able to use 'print' on strings and unicode strings
>    and get sensible output (I'll know it when I see it <wink>).

That will work depending on the terminal. In IDLE, it does currently
work. For plain strings, it will also normally work, unless the file's
encoding differs from the system encoding (or, rather, the user's
terminal encoding). For Unicode strings, I'll write a PEP describing
the use of Unicode at system interfaces, which targets this issue.

>  * Comments shouldn't affect the meaning of code.

They won't in phase 1 of the PEP (although you will get a warning if
you haven't declared an encoding, and left the system encoding at
ASCII). In phase 2, you'll get a warning if the comment is not
well-formed under the encoding.

>  * Random binary garbage in comments should be ignored, just like
>    it is today.

That property may go away in phase 2. E.g. in a UTF-8 encoded file,
Python will eventually verify that the comments actually are UTF-8.
Some people consider this a good thing, as editors can't really
round-trip files with different encodings at different offsets.

Regards,
Martin


From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Tue Mar 26 20:03:23 2002
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:23 -0800
Subject: list of empty lists
Message-ID: <3CA11A5B.5000501@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

Is there a easy way to make a list of an arbitray number of empty lists?

I can do something like:
 >>> some_number = 3
 >>> l = [[]] * some_number
 >>> l
[[], [], []]

Unfortunatly this has an unfortunate side affect.  Whatever I do to one 
of the list gets done to the other lists. ie:
 >>> l[0].append(1)
 >>> l
[[1], [1], [1]]


In this case, what I would like is three independantly empty lists.  I 
can make a for loop to loop "some_number" of times and append an empty 
list at each itteration.  Is there a simpler way?
Thanks.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 20:55:13 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:55:13 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3768B.32BB6AC9@ccvcorp.com> <slrnaa7e6a.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA3C981.2433ECD7@ccvcorp.com>


phil hunt wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:01:15 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >I disagree.  I'm just as happy that Python doesn't try to guess what would be a
> >suitable "default" value for non-existent keys.
>
> The default value should always be None.
>
> None should act like 0 or "" or [] or {} where appropriate, i.e.:
>
>    None + 1 --> 1
>    None + "x" --> "x"
>    None * 4 --> 0
>    None + ['x'] --> ['x']
>    None + {2:3} --> {2:3}

I strongly disagree with that.  Next thing you know, you'll be saying that (3 +
'one' ) should evaluate to 4.  Python has strong typing for a reason, just as it has
dynamic typing for a reason.  I wouldn't want to blur the line on types like this.
I *want* to know that None is not valid for all of those operations, so that I can
*tell* when I've got an error condition.


> >It seems to me to be entirely
> >consistent with the philosophy of "explicit is better than implicit".
>
> But that isn't the philosophy of any high level langauge. In fact,
> the more high level any language is, the more implicit things are.
> And I would argue that's a pretty good definition of what a high
> level language is.

I disagree with your conception of high level language.  A high level language hides
unnecessary details, but I don't think that conversion between different data types
is an unnecessary detail.  High level means that a logical step can be done in one
or two lines of code, not that it does magic transmutations in the background.
There's a large class of cases where the interpreter, in trying to "do the right
thing", is as likely to guess wrongly as it is to guess right.  If you want an
interpreter that guesses anyhow, use Perl.  I'll stick with Python, where uncertain
cases are brought to my attention instead.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 18 12:51:54 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:51:54 +0000
Subject: Correct to use instance = module.__dict__[class_name]() ?
Message-ID: <20020318175154.GC19877@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

I need to be able to take a string containing the name of a python
module (without the .py) and a string containing the name of a class
defined in that module, import the module, and create an instance of
the class.

I did have the following code, which works:

def foo(module_name, class_name):
    import_statement = "import %s" % (module_name)
    exec import_statement
    handler = eval("%s.%s()" % (module_name, class_name))
    return handler

Given recent "exec/eval considered harmful" threads, I resolved to
change it to something less controversial, and now have:

def bar(module_name, class_name):
    module = __import__(module_name, globals(), locals(), [])
    handler = module.__dict__[class_name]()
    return handler

Is this correct?  In particular I'm worried that __dict__ is not the
thing to use to get at the class object, but only really because I
don't recall seeing it used like this before.  Again, it seems to work
fine - I just want to make sure I'm doing The Right Thing.  :-) All
input appreciated.

Thanks,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 09:39:29 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:39:29 +0000
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122> <slrna8svl0.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6m939$71o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrna8up51.bll.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 13 Mar 2002 01:13:13 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>    q'|'c:\foo\bar\|
>>
>>"""c:\foo\bar\""" and r"c:\foo\bar\" work just as well.
>>
>You didn't mean that ;-)
>
> >>> """c:\foo\bar\"""
> ...
> ... (it's waiting for three unescaped quotes in a row)
> ... """
> 'c:\x0coo\x08ar"""\n\n(it\'s waiting for three unescaped quotes in a row)\n'
> >>>
> >>> r"c:\foo\bar\"
>   File "<string>", line 1
>     r"c:\foo\bar\"
>                  ^
> SyntaxError: invalid token
> >>>
>
>>The best solution, of course, is to not use Windows.
>>
>You probably did mean that ;-)

Absolutely. It's the solution I use, and it's never failed me yet.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Fri Mar  1 14:35:34 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:35:34 +0100
Subject: hotmail
References: <d5534716.0203011007.4cfeb8b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5oko9$1s63$1@norfair.nerim.net>

If you got a pop3 access to your hotmail account, have a look at the
"poplib" package. This is the easiest way.

If you can only read your mail through Web pages, I think that "urllib"
(performs HTTP GET/POST requests and retrieve Web pages) and "htmllib"
(simple HTML parser) will help you for that job. But it's harder.

HTH

--Gillou

"Ed" <eddieborder2001 at yahoo.co.uk> a ?crit dans le message news:
d5534716.0203011007.4cfeb8b8 at posting.google.com...
> hi
> im just wondering whether it is possible to access hotmail thru python
> so that i have a far quicker way of checking my emails. can telnetlib
> do this?
> thanx
> ed




From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 13 20:14:38 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:38 +1100
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <200203132309.g2DN9rq30923@mail.merlinsoftech.com>
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com> <200203132309.g2DN9rq30923@mail.merlinsoftech.com>
Message-ID: <200203140114.BAA00967@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:10, Andy McKay wrote:
> Roundup has always struck me as a more of an issue tracker rather than a
> bug tracker which Bugzilla is aimed at.

Interesting statement - I've used it in two jobs now in which it's used as a 
bug tracker...

It doesn't have any workflow enforced, if that's what you're referring to. 
This can be implemented using the flexible detector mechanisms built into 
roundup... it's just that no-one has yet.


> Bugzilla has lots of features and
> problems as well, but add email support to Bugzilla and you have a good
> scalable database with more features than Roundup. Unfortunately its in
> Perl

The underlying database in roundup is fully flexible - here we're looking at 
setting it up as the target of our customer feedback email address. That way 
emails get sent into the tracker and have "open/replied/closed" and our 
customer service people (and anyone else who is involved) may discuss the 
issue on the "mini mailing list" that is automatically handled by Roundup.



> I would recommend looking at both them to any one installing a bug tracker,
> but lets face it, the Python isnt likely to change soon ;)

Oh yeah - that'd be a world o' pain :)


     Richard



From grante at visi.com  Thu Mar 14 23:29:27 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:29:27 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:

>         selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
>         (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, selectables)

It looks like you've got the first two parameters to select
reversed.  After the above call, output is going to contain
writable sockets.  If you're wanting to read data, you should
do:

          (output, input, exc) = select.select(selectables,[],selectables)

>         if output:
>              for theOutput in output:
>                 if theOutput == theProcess.childerr:
>                     eoutput = theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
>                     print eoutput
>                 elif theOutput == theProcess.fromchild:
>                     stdoutput = theProcess.fromchild.readline(bufsize)
>                     print stdoutput

I think you're names output/input are confusing since (they're
named from the child's point of view?).  But that's just a
style issue.

BTW, the "if output:" isn't needed.  If the "output" value is
empty, then the for loop executes zero times.

> It blocks forever waiting for theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize) to
> return.  I expect it to block waiting for select.select();

When select returns a file descriptor, that means that read()
won't block.  If only a partial line is available, then
readline() will still block.  I doubt that this is going to be
an issue, since your output is probably line-oriented.

The code you posted got line-wrapped by your news client, and
I'm too lazy to fix it.  If the above tips don't get things
running, post again (unwrapped code), and I'll give it another
shot.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Am I accompanied by
                                  at               a PARENT or GUARDIAN?
                               visi.com            


From infinitystwin.SPAM at IS.BAD.yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 02:29:03 2002
From: infinitystwin.SPAM at IS.BAD.yahoo.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:29:03 -0600
Subject: files and reading from them
References: <auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a7mj6j01e5l@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I am writing a dictionary to a file, like so
> f.write(str(Info))
>
> and what it is writing to the file is the following..
> {'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}
>
> and if i write in two things, i get..
> {'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}
> {'IPrice': '2', 'IName': 'notworking, 'IDesc': 'annoying'}
>
> What i would like to do is pull a readline or somesuch.. and have it take
in
> the whole thing, and then just let me assign that to a empty name, and
turn
> it into a new dictionary.. like say
>  file.seek(1)
> //thats how i'd go to the first place in the file correct?
> X=file.readline()
>
> and now i can say print X['IName'] ... and its turned into a dictionary..
i
> am most likely going about this *all* wrong.

I'm assuming that you just want to create a dictionary from each line in
your file.
all you need is eval(). Like this:

dict1 = eval(file.readline())
dict2 = eval(file.readline())
...
etc.


greg




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Mar 26 20:29:15 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:29:15 +1200
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017132761.23147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA1206B.7DB410B2@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> He had already projected both the depth and sincerity of
> your sorrow to six significant digits

Using decimal or binary arithmetic?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar  5 15:33:02 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:33:02 -0800
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203040130.17140530@posting.google.com> <a611bl$44i$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203042338.141afe8b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015315879.19686.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C852B7E.2AD1FD64@ccvcorp.com>


Geoff Gerrietts wrote:

> Quoting Brian (brian at lodoss.org):
> > OK - now I have another question (and remember I'm new to Python) if
> > map and lambda are part of the core language and have well defined
> > behavior, why is it that using them is considered bad form?  Are they
> > just the redheaded step-children of the language, or what? ;-)
> ....
> I think that I have seen notables in the python community (I would
> name names, but I don't have quotes to reference) have indicated
> regret at the introduction of map() and friends into the language.
> They end up being appropriate only very, very rarely.
>
> The lambda construct doesn't suffer from quite the same stigma, though
> I think some feel that it's overused, and to bad effect.

To my understanding, you have this almost exactly backwards.  The functions
map(), filter(), etc, are standard functional-programming features and are very
useful, in the right places.  I can't recall them being specifically looked down
on, or regretted.  However, they are frequently used in places where list
comprehensions would do the job better.  List comps are a later addition to the
language, though, so many people familiar with map() et. al., prefer to keep
using them.

Lambdas, on the other hand, are the ugly child that looks just like the
postman...  With functional constructs like map() being added to the language,
functional programmers everywhere were begging for lambdas, as well (they're
used heavily in Lisp and other f.p. languages).  However, due to various reasons
(mostly issues with the Python parser, IIRC), Python lambdas are crippled --
they can only contain a single expression, so they aren't *quite* equivalent to
anonymous functions, but they still have the (relatively high) cost of a
function call.  They also have (IMHO) confusing syntax.

The big gain in using list comprehensions, comes from the fact that it often
eliminates the need to use an expensive (and, IMO, ugly) lambda.  The line

z = map(lambda x: MyClass(), range(y))

has y extra function calls (to the lambda) that are not present in

z = [MyClass() for x in range(y)]

Also note that the lambda doesn't really avoid the extra 'x' variable -- you're
still using it as a parameter to the lambda, which is then ignored.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 31 15:43:15 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:43:15 -0500
Subject: New-style exceptions?
In-Reply-To: <slrnaaerno.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEGKOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Magnus Lie Hetland]
> Is there a reason why new-style objects can't be used in the raise
> statement?

Almost certainly <wink>.  If the question is really whether this is the
intended final behavior, the answer is almost certainly no.




From fdrake at acm.org  Wed Mar 13 00:16:57 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:16:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020313051657.CF40428696@beowolf.fdrake.net>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

Mostly minor updates; closed a few bug reports.



From mcherm at destiny.com  Tue Mar 12 13:21:34 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:21:34 -0500
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
Message-ID: <3C8E472E.5090704@destiny.com>

Um... look folks. We can all point at the article and laugh, but some 
people appear to be confused about what is and what isn't intended to be 
  taken with a <wink>. So let me state a few facts quite clearly, with 
no sarcasm (or humor) intended.

  1) Mark Hammond has made HUGE contributions to the Python community.
     The degree to which he personally has contributed to usability on
     the Windows platform is clearly an important contribution.

  2) Mark generally has a decent sense of humor. So do lots of folks in
     the Python community -- after all, it's not named for a snake! We
     LIKE to laugh when journalists (or anyone!) makes a silly statement
     and uses it as a lead.

  3) Not everyone will want to use a .NET version of Python if Mark were
     to create such a thing. (Not everyone will have a platform where
     they COULD use it.) But everyone (pretty much everyone) will be
     pleased that such a thing exists. Everyone (pretty much everyone) in
     the Python community thinks that Python is a really cool tool and
     would like as many people as possible to be able to use it! Python
     everywhere!

  4) Mark should have more support from within the Python community for
     the work he is doing. So should Guido. And so does Andrew Kuchling,
     Robin Dunn, Finn Bock, and MANY, many others. We could all use an
     extra hand. I hope Mark gets the support he needs, much as I hope
     all the other projects make headway.

Okay... now back to your regularly scheduled <wink> enabled sense of
humor. This message has been sponsored by the C.C.U.P.M.H.B.P.W.A.H.S.H. 
(Committee to Cover Up the Pariah-ization of Mark Hammond By Pretending 
We All Have a Sense of Humor), a sub-committee of the PSU.




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Thu Mar 14 21:59:25 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:59:25 +0900
Subject: Windows Installation
Message-ID: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net>

I have a free software program (http://sf.net/projects/bttotalcontrol/) and 
I am having great difficulty writing an installation script for windows.

I don't want to use distutils because I am not writing a module - but an 
entire distribution with images, data files, and executable programs. I 
would like to put icons on the desktop and stuff in the start menu as well.

I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows 
machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a few 
people who actively test for the project at home.

Anyone have any suggestions on where I should go? Anyone can help me out 
here?

Jonathan



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Mar  5 19:01:04 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:01:04 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015287849.16661.python-list@python.org> <3C8445FC.A1816810@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <eppstein-395DC7.20301504032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3C855C40.9061EF31@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> Checking that the outer expressions contain one item rather than a tuple
> needs to be done at run time.  Of course, the compiler can catch some
> instances where the expression is obviously non-single.

I expressed myself a bit cryptically there. What the
grammar should *really* say is

for_stmt: 'for' (exprlist 'in' testlist 
       | expr lt_op something lt_op expr ...

but that would lead to a conflict between 'exprlist'
and 'expr', so I made them both 'exprlist' with the
intention that it would be restricted to a single
'expr' later. But since a run-time test is needed
anyway, it mightn't be worth the bother.

> the outer expressions should be or_expr to respect Python's
> precedence rules

I can't find 'or_expr', but I'm looking at the 1.5.2
grammar. Has it been added later?

> and the inner one should be identifier.

That's a bit too restrictive -- any lvalue should be
allowed (as for-in does). Unfortunately there's no
grammar symbol corresponding exactly to an lvalue.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Fri Mar  1 14:58:03 2002
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 11:58:03 -0800
Subject: dirwalk.py generator version of os.path.walk
References: <a5d36e$1daf$1@news.idiom.com> <ac677656.0202271621.5a134d44@posting.google.com> <a5kv49$ae8$2@news.idiom.com> <just-BED145.11365928022002@news1.xs4all.nl> <a5mbm7$18vj$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0203011158.60764e42@posting.google.com>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) wrote in message news:<a5mbm7$18vj$1 at news.idiom.com>...
> In article <just-BED145.11365928022002 at news1.xs4all.nl>, Just van Rossum wrote:
> >In article <a5kv49$ae8$2 at news.idiom.com>,
> > jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) wrote:
>  
> >>> I wrote a different implementation of this general concept at:
>  
> >>> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/105873
>  
> >>> You don't really need to keep a stack of directories and push/pop
> >>> things, because with generators you can recurse instead.
> >>> Tom
>  
>   BTW: Tom, I did come across your version in the ASPN a day or so
>   after I wrote mine.  I agree it looks cleaner and simpler.
>   I might still use a list (FIFO or stack) and while loop instead
>   of the recursion. (see below).
> 

If you've considered both approaches and prefer a non-recursive
implementation, then sure, do it the way you like best.  I wanted to
point out another option in case you hadn't thought of it.

[snip]

>  However, it would be nice if I
>  created a useful Python module which provided all of the power
>  for Python that the "find" command provides to the shell.

That sounds cool.  Post it when you're done :-)



Tom


From heiko.wolf at dlr.de  Thu Mar  7 04:54:46 2002
From: heiko.wolf at dlr.de (Heiko Wolf)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 01:54:46 -0800
Subject: Python/C - Memory-Management
Message-ID: <d013da35.0203070154.64411e59@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

I've got some C-functions that shall be adressed from Python. Thats no
problem, thanks to SWIG.

But now there is a problem about the memory management: One of the
C-functions allocates memory for all the other functions. In C it
works that way:

static char *memory = NULL;

int init_mem (void)
{

memory = (char *)malloc(sizeof(char) * 1000);
}

int free_mem (void)
{

free(memory);
}

If another function calls init_mem, it can use memory until free_mem
is called... I want to do the same now in Python, but it seems as if
the static memory isnt kept somewhere? When I try accessing it, I get
a Segmentation Fault... Any suggestions?

Cheers, Heiko


From bkd at graphnet.com  Wed Mar 20 06:26:54 2002
From: bkd at graphnet.com (Bruce Dykes)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:26:54 -0500
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
Message-ID: <0c0601c1d002$26eef0f0$5102020a@graphnet.com>

Just to make sure I'm on the right track here...

I'm reading records from a file. This is a flat file, with one line per
record, and each line being some 380+ characters long, with about 40 fields
in each record.

Now I'm thinking that the easiest way to deal with these records (in
preparation for developing a Zope app to interface with them), is to set up
a class, with attributes for each field:

class call_record:
    def __init__(self, record=''):
        self.record_id=record[0:5]
        self.date=record[6:11]

etc...

Now what I expect to be able to do is say:

log = readlines(today.log)

and then summon discrete bits of info like so:

print call_record.record_id(log[1])

However, all I get when I try this is the return of of the object attribute
instance and its memory address.

Am I on the right track and just overlooking something obvious? Is there
already an app that does something similar that I can browse for pointers?

On a side note, it was fun just cranking out a python script that created
the class code from the file documentation. 8-)

bkd




From akakakhel at attbi.com  Sun Mar  3 20:00:49 2002
From: akakakhel at attbi.com (Ali K)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:00:49 GMT
Subject: The Text Widget
Message-ID: <5Hzg8.72869$vP.290047@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

I would like to know how to make it so that whenever I insert some text into
the text widget from inside my program, it is inserted on a new line?

Please Reply

Thank You.

Ali K.




From bosahv at netscapenospam.net  Thu Mar 14 12:34:12 2002
From: bosahv at netscapenospam.net (Bo Vandenberg)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:34:12 GMT
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>
Message-ID: <oa5k8.27154$lM.25760@news2.bloor.is>

I really like  _Core Python Programming_ by Wesley J. Chun, I think it's
very well written and really tied a lot together for me.

Check out the url:

http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/README.htm


I think it has a regular considerred approach which is the thing I really
wanted in a book, as opposed to the online refs.

If you out there, thanks author

 author = ('Wesley J Chun' , 'Mr. Chun', 'Wesley')

Any way you slice it :)




From delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE  Tue Mar 19 02:25:53 2002
From: delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Olaf Delgado)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 02:25:53 MET
Subject: Tkinter and lengthy computations
Message-ID: <slrna9d4t1.rhl.delgado@eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>

Hi all!

What is good way to prevent a GUI from blocking during lengthy
computations? Actually, the only thing I need is to have the
application's main window be redrawn each time it becomes visible, so
the user can do something else and come back from time to time to
check the progress.

After studying the documentation and the cookbook for inspiration, the
solution I came up with is to initiate a daemonic "worker" thread on
startup which receives tasks from and returns results to the GUI via
two Queues (see example code at the bottom). It seems to work fine, so
far, but looks somewhat complicated to me. Maybe I am missing
something obvious. I am actually more an algorithms man than an
application programmer and have never touched threads before.

Cheers,
Olaf


# ============================================================
import Tkinter
import threading
import Queue
import time


class GUI:
    def __init__(self, master, tasks, results):
        self.tasks = tasks
        self.results = results
        self.counter = 0

        self.master = master
        Tkinter.Button(master, text = "Work!", command =
        self.work).pack()
        self.output = Tkinter.Label(master, text = "")
        self.output.pack()
        self.poll()

    def work(self):
        self.counter = self.counter + 1
        self.tasks.put(self.counter)

    def poll(self):
        try:
            item = self.results.get_nowait()
        except Queue.Empty:
            pass
        else:
            self.output.configure(text = str(item))
        self.master.after(100, self.poll)


def work(tasks, results):
    while 1:
        try:
            task = tasks.get_nowait()
        except Queue.Empty:
            time.sleep(0.1)
        else:
            results.put("Task %s started." % task)

            # Pretend to do a lengthy computation:
            time.sleep(20)

            results.put("Task %s completed." % task)


tasks = Queue.Queue(1)
results = Queue.Queue(1)

worker = threading.Thread(target = work, args = (tasks, results))
worker.setDaemon(1)
worker.start()

root = Tkinter.Tk()
root.title("Threading test")
GUI(root, tasks, results)
root.mainloop()
# ============================================================

-- 
   ////         Olaf Delgado Friedrichs, Dept. of Chemistry,
   Olaf         Arizona State University, Tempe AZ 85287, USA
   `='            phone +1-480-965-6570  fax +1-480-965-2747
                  http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~delgado


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Mar 22 09:46:13 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:46:13 +0000
Subject: __* name mangling documentation
References: <mailman.1016800354.9140.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7fcb1$1m9h$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Michel Pelletier wrote:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/id-classes.html
> 
> sort of left me hanging on why __ name mangling exists and why it would be
> used.

Simple: private attributes and methods:

class C:
  def __init__(self):
    self.__a = 1
    self.b = 2
o = C()
## Attribute "b" has no "__" => no name mangling
## => public => this works:
o.b = 3
print o.b
## Attribute "__a" has a "__" => name mangling
## => private => this doesn't work:
o.__a = 4
print o.__a

This mimicks the behaviour of an attribute declared "private" in languages 
like C++ or Java. Sorry if you already know about all this, but it actually 
implements the OO concept known as "encapsulation": an object should only 
expose attributes and methods that are meaningful to the "outside world". 
Any attribute or method used internally should not be seen from outside the 
object.

> I'm curious because I'm looking at some code right now that uses it in 
> a somewhat tricky way and I want to know why.

I can't figure out what could be "tricky" about private attributes or 
methods: they can only be accessed from inside the class's instances, and 
that's all there is about them... Can you provide an example of what you 
mean by "tricky"?

HTH
 - eric -



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar  9 16:56:14 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 21:56:14 GMT
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
References: <mailman.1015612095.8491.python-list@python.org> <slrna8ilqe.uas.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <slrna8k25k.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6e0du$7od$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:05:56 +0000, philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:
[...]
>
>You can get a dictionary's keys, so you ought to be able to do so 
>with sequence types, in the same way.
>
This is a nice insight. There ought to be a repository where the
above snip and others like it could be placed, so they don't get
lost. Some kind of keyword tagging for searching maybe also. XML?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From briner at infomaniak.ch  Tue Mar 26 03:34:41 2002
From: briner at infomaniak.ch (cedric_briner)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:34:41 -0000
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
Message-ID: <a7pbr1+ul88@eGroups.com>

hi,
I'm interesting to know which method of a class I have to define to
list the __records of this class:

class CRdb:
	__fieldsName= []
	__keyname= []
	__records   = ['first','secnd','third']
	__iRecord= 0

because I would like to write something like:

db=CRdb()
for entry in db:
	print entry

and then get
first
secnd
third

please let me know any pointer refering this topic...or even better a
quick solution ..

thanks. Briner




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Sat Mar  9 02:17:54 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:17:54 -0800
Subject: broken pipes, import errors (LONG, INVOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <a6bvlb$n17$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <mailman.1015633218.4713.python-list@python.org> <a6bvlb$n17$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20020309071754.GA8360@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Bengt Richter (bokr at oz.net):
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:13:54 -0800, Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:
> >At work, I'm seeing an "interesting" problem in my production
> >environment, or maybe two problems. It's one of those problems that
> 
> I don't have a clue about your situation, but it strikes me that exec and eval both
> use name spaces (local and global dictionaries) that you could specify, but don't.
> 
> I'm wondering if the default (current scope) is ok in your context.

If we were to specify namespaces, globals() and locals() would be the
appropriate namespaces to specify. So we don't.

In this case, exec and eval are both being used as shortcuts, because
the long form in either event is ... longer. A little more code for
the import, a little more code for the eval():

    statement = "import module.submodule.SubSubModule"
    exec statement

where statement consists of translates roughly into:
    
    toplevel = "module"
    modpath  = "module.submodule.SubSubModule"
    locals()[toplevel] = __import__(modpath)

The eval() structure can be similarly replaced with a looped getattr()
on each of the path components. It's just clumsier to do it this way.

Note: while "statement" is assigned directly in the sample code,
that's really just to show everyone what the variable contains.
"statement" is dynamically built, as is "object_nm".

We've tried replacing the eval and exec, to no effect. The variables
do contain the expected values. For two years, they've worked pretty
well. We have no idea what might have changed to make them stop
working pretty well.

> If you are repeatedly reusing the same current scope (e.g., doing
> those exec and eval lines inside a loop) for unrelated things, maybe
> there are name collisions?

When you try to import a module twice, import just does nothing (or at
least very little) after the first effort. In fact, when you first
import, Python caches a copy of the module in the global namespace.
When you subsequently import, it re-uses that cached copy.

The cached copy is also corrupt.

> Maybe logging the output of dir() before and after those lines would
> reveal something?

We've done that, and compared successful runs with runs where the
error erupts. "module" is populated correctly each time. "submodule"
varies fairly drastically in its contents between a successful run and
an unsuccessful run, but it's not clear why.

> Or try specifying local and global dicts and .clear() them after use
> (maybe the default environment is keeping something alive that
> should get garbage-collected and have its destructor executed? Or
> maybe one finally does fire off after a same-name rebinding of a
> reference, and the old destructor is doing inappropriate cleanup for
> the new environment? How does memory usage look?)

This error almost always occurs within the first twenty minutes of a
process (Zope process) that's accustomed to run for a week or so
without being restarted.

> These are just ideas trying to jog your thoughts, hopefully helpfully ;-)
> No specific recommendations -- you'll have to figure what's appropriate for your situation.

I appreciate all the efforts to help. Much of what you've suggested,
we've considered.

I may recommend trying local dictionaries which we then destroy after
exiting the function body, to see if we can elicit any more
information from doing so. I confess I have little hope that it will
solve our problem -- there's nothing happening in that namespace to
remove these objects. They just never show up in the first place; the
import quits halfway but fails to raise an error.

Thanks for the thoughts,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Punctuality is the virtue of the bored." 
<geoff at gerrietts net>                               --Evelyn Waugh



From usenet at woggo.org  Tue Mar 12 02:12:11 2002
From: usenet at woggo.org (Will Benton)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 23:12:11 -0800
Subject: m2crypto problems
Message-ID: <9625d523.0203112312.6a972d51@posting.google.com>

Hello, all.  I'm trying to run the example echo server (from the
m2crypto docs), but I get the following error:

[willb at ludwig ~/src/python/examples]$ ./sslecho.py 
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./sslecho.py", line 3, in ?
    from M2Crypto import SSL, X509
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/M2Crypto/__init__.py", line
6, in ?
    import _m2crypto
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/M2Crypto/_m2crypto.py", line
2, in ?    import _m2cryptoc
ImportError: /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/M2Crypto/_m2cryptoc.so:
undefined symbol: d2i_SSL_SESSION

It looks like that symbol is defined in libcrypto, which is in my
LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
I'm using Red Hat 7.2, OpenSSL 0.9.6b, and m2crypto 0.05_snap4. 
Anyone know how I can fix this?



Thanks,
wb


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 01:50:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 06:50:42 GMT
Subject: beginner question
References: <cDTn8.2512$RQq.540@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <a7p5o2$5oe$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:25:28 GMT, "Qiang.JL" <dragon at china.org> wrote:

>for this line:
>
>>>> g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split())) or (lambda y: 'second')
>
I doubt if this expression is doing what you want. It is the same form as

     g = a or b

which will set g to a, unless a counts as false (e.g., None,'',[],(), or zero),
in which case g will be set to b irrespective of b's value. So your expression
is effectively equivalent to

    g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))

Since you are binding to g anyway, you might as well do it the straight forward way:

    def g(x):
        return ' '.join(x.split())

>now by calling g(str(something)) make sure i always pass a string to the
>function(ignore exception if improper stuff in str). I want to know what

If you are always going to call it that way, it would make more sense to
put it in the function, e.g.,

    def g(x):
        return ' '.join(str(x).split())

>parameter i can pass to the lambda function so that the first condition
>false then second condition get executed?

If you just want an alternate expression when the first is "false", just
add it to the return expression, e.g.,

    def g(x):
        return ' '.join(str(x).split()) or 'second'

>or as long as i pass a string,it's always true for the first condition?
>
The best way to find out is play with the interpreter. It will tell you:

 >>> def g(x):
 ...     return ' '.join(str(x).split())
 ...
 >>> g('')
 ''
Or try it with a lot of mixed white space, which split will
get rid of: 

 >>> g("""    \t   \r\r\r\n\n\n
 ... \t               \t
 ...           \f
 ... """)
 ''

Now what will happen if we tack on an 'or' to that expression? Trying it:

 >>> '' or 'second'
 'second'

What happens if we pass a non-string as argument? Try it!
(e.g., g is a function, not a string):

 >>> def g(x):
 ...     return ' '.join(str(x).split()) or 'second'
 ...
 >>> g(g)
 '<function g at 0x007DB100>'
 >>> g(0)
 '0'
 >>> g('   ')
 'second'
 >>> g('')
 'second'

If you really don't want to use def and you want to use your original
expressions, use another lambda to tie them together, e.g., (OTTOMH,
not very well tested ;-)

 >>> g = lambda x: (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))(str(x)) or (lambda y: 'second')(str(x))
 >>> g('   ')
 'second'
 >>> g(g)
 '<function <lambda> at 0x007DB060>'
 >>> g(' a     bc    def')
 'a bc def'

Notice that the ouside lambda has a body that both defines _and_ calls the internal lambdas
with the str()-protected arguments. The second lambda will only be called if the first one
returns ''. The outside lambda then returns the result from whichever internal one.

But I'd say that's pretty ugly to read compared to

 >>> def g(x):
 ...     return ' '.join(str(x).split()) or 'second'
 ...

;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ken at ineffable.com  Thu Mar  7 12:30:26 2002
From: ken at ineffable.com (Ken Causey)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 11:30:26 -0600
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020307091226.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <XFMail.20020307091226.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <1015522226.444.21.camel@temp>

On Thu, 2002-03-07 at 11:12, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> > 
> > The user of SGMLParser needs to be able to handle invalid tags.  This
> > handling may be complex or as simple as just ignoring it and asking
> > SGMLParser to skip this tag and move along.  As far as I can tell this
> > is not an option.
> > 
> > As a side note, the text error message thrown is particularly
> > uninformation as it simply includes the first letter of the tag, in
> > other words always '<'.
> > 
> 
> match = special.match(rawdata, i)
> if match:
>     if self.literal:
>         self.handle_data(rawdata[i])
>         i = i+1
>         continue
>     # This is some sort of declaration; in "HTML as
>     # deployed," this should only be the document type
>     # declaration ("<!DOCTYPE html...>").
>     k = self.parse_declaration(i)
>     if k < 0: break
>     i = k
>     continue
> 
> is the offending code.  'special' is defined as re.compile(r'<![^<>]*>').
> 
> I see two options:
> 
> 1) change the definition of special to a noop match.  Something that is
> relatively cheap but can never match.
> 
> 2) write your own parse_declaration() method.
> 

Yes, but both of these changes would violate the object model of
SGMLParser, at least as evidenced by the module documentation.  It would
also, I suspect be non-portable among Python versions.  For example the
behaviour of 1.5.2 is quite different here.

I'm inclined at the moment to report this situation as a bug.  But I
wanted to get some opinions as I'm neither an SGML expert nor fully
confident of my understanding of the SGMLParser class.

The easiest fix I can come up with at the moment is to modify the
SGMLParseError throw so that the position in the rawdata of the error is
returned with the exception so that the data can be resubmitted skipping
the offending tag (reporting the endpoint of the bad tag would be even
handier).  Of course this also involves modifying private implementation
details.

By the way, I'm nikos on #python if anyone cares to discuss this in a
more "live" context.

Ken




From olc at ninti.com  Sat Mar 30 19:46:40 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:16:40 +0930 (CST)
Subject: CGI/modpython ???
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203311006090.6583-100000@localhost.localdomain>

I'm writing Python CGI scripts using the MySQLdb module and getting a
grasp on things fairly quickly ... Python is a cool language (I'm coming
to it from PHP). Thanks to Drew and Emile for sorting out my looping
function, it works fine now.

Now I'm wondering how modpython is used. If Apache has the modpython
module installed, how do I use it? What form do scripts take? 

Do they still look like CGI scripts, or do they look more like a PHP
script (some sort of embedded scripting)?

Does a script still use '#!/usr/bin/python', or are file endings (eg
.py) used to call the Python interpreter?

Is the script located in public_html or cgi-bin?

What would I have to do with a CGI script written in Python to use it with
modpython?

Thanks

-----------------------------
Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
-----------------------------




From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Mon Mar  4 14:50:02 2002
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven Majewski)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:50:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
In-Reply-To: <005801c1c39a$a5418900$0101010a@local>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.40.0203041439510.3277-100000@d-128-54-224.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Chris Gonnerman wrote:

> > > The wonderful Daily Python-URL (http://www.pythonware.com/daily) just
> > > pointed to http://twainmodule.sourceforge.net a few days ago.
> >
> > but this only works on windows, making it useless for real computers.
>
> Ah, dix is interested in *TWAIN* scanner drivers, so necessarily that means
> Windows.  The TWAIN driver interface isn't used outside the M$ world AFAIK.

It's also a very common interface on Macintosh.

I don't know of any reason the spec couldn't be implemented on unix,
but I also don't know if any implementation. ( And without commercial
apps that use it like Photoshop, there's probably not much demand. )

[BTW: You can find the spec at www.twain.org.]

-- Steve Majewski





From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 20:43:15 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:43:15 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <8gv3au47846mgol398j4oc5t0ufoi274b4@4ax.com> <slrnaa4o82.3ib.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrnaa4pif.3ib.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <qat4aucfu341gm3gekigvhqk872rbs3n5n@4ax.com>

>I've just tried:
>
>suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt+ DEDENT | NEWLINE 
>suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt* DEDENT          
>suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE [INDENT stmt+ DEDENT]      
>
>None of which work. Mind you, I don't know the language of the 
>python parser-generator, having never seen it before, and so I am 
>just guessing things that looks like they might work. No doubt 
>someone more familiar with it could do better.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm not surprised these
changes didn't work. I've recently clean-roomed a ANTLR parser
for Python and discovered a lot along the way. As it turns out,
some major conceptual pieces of Python are directly related to
the domain space of inferred-block-delimited programming languages.
What I'm trying to say here is that there are things about Python
that, if you had never seen Python but had implemented an
inferred-block-delimited language of your own, you'd say "oh,
of course."

Optional pass could be done. I'm sure. But with hair. So it's
not. And it's no big deal, really. There's so many other fish
to fry.

When something is an artifact of implementation versus problem-
domain constraints, I always consider this a wart, but then
there's warts and there are warts. "pass" isn't worth stuggling
over, in my mind.

I can think of other warts in other languages, much worse. Take
Java. They didn't do MI for implementation reasons. And as part
of the domain space, MI is a highly valuable problem solver.
I view Java's lack of MI as a very grave sin, the ultimate
admission of defeat by the implementer.

C//



From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Fri Mar 22 09:29:57 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:29:57 +0200
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
In-Reply-To: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com>
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203221625560.29408-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On 21 Mar 2002, Marc wrote:

> class ImStream_SavedBitmaps(cbase01.CImStream):
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
          ^^^^^
This should be cbase01, right?

> ***************************************************************
> 
> If I run test02 I get the traceback
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>   File "D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\test02.py", line 15, in ?
>     x0 = wrappers_A01.ImStream_SavedBitmaps()
>   File "D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\wrappers_A01.py", line 21,
> in __init__
>     cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
> TypeError: unbound method must be called with class instance 1st
> argument

Though, I cannot explain how the above typo could cause this exception.

Pearu



From sasoft at gmx.de  Fri Mar 29 10:24:06 2002
From: sasoft at gmx.de (cruciatuz)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:24:06 +0000
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020329152406.GA2671@blackscarab>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 08:55:51AM -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> "Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
> message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
> > However, I detest building programs that have already been
> > built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
!

> > Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> > have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> > rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> > challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
> 
> I'd really like to see a Python mail/newsreader. That would teach you a lot,
> and keep you busy for a while...
mhh, it wouldn't be _too_ useful, i think:
http://freshmeat.net/browse/31/?filter=178&topic_id=31

but it would be great to have something like that based on python's Tk wrapper, 
because i am also interested in good communication-tools in python, but i ran into
(installation-)trouble with the different gui-toolkits.
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From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar  4 18:18:29 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:18:29 +0000
Subject: question about an installation of a new module
In-Reply-To: <"020304203918Z.WT13248.28*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
References: <"020304203918Z.WT13248. 28*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
Message-ID: <20020304231829.GB22326@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 07:23:13PM +0100, Francois-regis Chalaoux wrote:

> After my 'configure', 'make' and 'make install' of Python , I
> modified the 'Setup' from Module directory and then I ran 'make' as
> explained in the README.txt.
> 
> However, should I run again 'make install' again after this
> modification ?

Yes - otherwise the rebuilt code isn't installed, it's just sitting
wherever you built it.

Note that you could have modified Modules/Setup any time after
.configure, and didn't need to run make && make install first.

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 13:53:32 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:53:32 -0800
Subject: IDiscMaster interface
References: <mailman.1017284923.21591.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA366AB.934E9719@ccvcorp.com>


Chris Gonnerman wrote:

> I have been investigating the IDiscMaster interface implemented
> in Windows XP.  It appears to be a COM interface (I'm a Linux/Unix
> type of guy and know very little about Windows internals), but I
> can find no type library.  Has anyone else used this interface
> (component, whatever) via Python?  I'd really like to be able
> to burn CD's automatically for backup purposes.

Note that there are (effectively) two types of COM interfaces --
"custom" and "automation" (I'm not sure I've got the terms exactly
right, but...)  Pythoncom currently only handles automation interfaces
(which were inteded to be used from scripting languages), not custom
interfaces (which were effectively intended to be used from C++).  As
I understand it, in order to handle a custom interface (which I am
guessing the IDiscMaster interface is), you'd need to delve deep into
the internals of pythoncom.  Of course, I'd *love* to be proved wrong
about this...  ;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From sjones16 at rochester.rr.com  Sun Mar  3 14:38:26 2002
From: sjones16 at rochester.rr.com (Seth Jones)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:38:26 GMT
Subject: Trouble running programs
References: <mailman.1015181645.9476.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SYug8.168234$dh.43802465@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Hi. I think your problem is you're trying to run the script from the wrong
window. The 'run script' menu item in idle runs the script that is in the
same window as the menu you're using. So when you open up a new
window to write a script, that window should have a menu that you can
select 'Run Script' from.  Note "working directory" of the script will not
be
the same directory the script is actually in, as I recently learned. This
means if you're
doing any file i/o, you'll need to supply the full path, which is obnoxious.
IDLEfork
does properly handle the working directory:

See http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/

You probably won't need to worry about it if you're not doing file i/o,
though.

"default_renegade" <default_renegade at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015181645.9476.python-list at python.org...
> Just started learning Python, but having trouble running a programs.
> First, I open IDLE, then open a new window
> Then I write a program and save it, then I close the window
> When I'm back at the Python Shell and select Run Script It gives me
> an error "Not Saved - The bugger for Python Shell is not saved.
> Please save it first!"
> However, I can run the program from the DOS prompt.
>
>




From arigo at ulb.ac.be  Tue Mar 19 13:02:34 2002
From: arigo at ulb.ac.be (Armin Rigo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:02:34 +0100
Subject: Returning an element from a C struct
References: <3C9772AB.1691D362@saic.com> <mailman.1016560711.29153.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c990582$0$29676$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

> How about
>
>     def __getattr__(self,name):
>         try:
>             return self.__dict__[name]
>         except KeyError:
>             return getattr(self.ptr, name)

It even looks like the first 'return' is not needed. If the attribute is
found in the instance then __getattr__() is not called at all.

Armin




From skurland at juggler.net  Tue Mar 12 22:07:33 2002
From: skurland at juggler.net (Scott Kurland)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:07:33 -0600
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com> <8B012C611E@kserver.org> <u8t5kbhc6qq587@corp.supernews.com> <a6la5r.3vseoif.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <u8tgk3klouk179@corp.supernews.com>

> > > > Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?
> > >
> > > > #Searching for perfect numbers
> > > >
> > > > howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
> > > > for number in range (1,howhigh):
> > > >  factorsum = 0
> > > >  halfnumber=number/2
> > > >  for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
> > > >   if number/checking == int (number/checking):
> > > >    factorsum = factorsum + checking
> > > >  if number == factorsum:
> > > >   print number
> > > >
> > >
> > > What do you mean it isn't working? It ran without crashing when I
tried
> > it.
> > > Here is the output from a sample run:
> > >
> > > >>>
> > > How high should I check?50
> > > 10
> > >
> > > Are you expecting some other type of output? What are you expecting?
> >
> > Well, I was expecting failure, which we got.  What I hoped for was the
two
> > perfect numbers between 1 and 50, 6 and 28.
>
> You really should play with the interpreter window open, or add more print
> statements to your code so that you can see what is happening at all of
the
> intermediate steps. Consider the data in this interactive session:

The former didn't help.  I'll try the latter.  Thank you.
>
> >>> howhigh = 10
> >>> range(1,howhigh)
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
> >>> range(1, howhigh + 1)
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
> >>> for number in range(1, howhigh + 1):
> print "for number = ", number,
> print "halfnumber = ", number/2
>
>
> for number =  1 halfnumber =  0
> for number =  2 halfnumber =  1
> for number =  3 halfnumber =  1
> for number =  4 halfnumber =  2
> for number =  5 halfnumber =  2
> for number =  6 halfnumber =  3
> for number =  7 halfnumber =  3
> for number =  8 halfnumber =  4
> for number =  9 halfnumber =  4
> for number =  10 halfnumber =  5
> >>>
>
> Is this what you expect of the data in the intermediate steps?

Nope, I was hoping for .5, 1, 1.5....
>
> > > > Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.
> > >
> > > Oh, now what newsgroup mistreated you so, that you would expect such a
> > > thing? We don't do that here in comp.lang.python!
>
> > Goodness! I'll have to mind my manners carefully, then; usenet has
roughened
> > them some.
> >
> > Thank you, Sheila.
>
> Are you saying, that we need to watch out for flames from you???
> Oh, dear!
> (donning my asbestos suit...)

No, no, I'll do my best to be a Good Boy, honest.




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 10:29:34 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 09:29:34 -0600
Subject: MySQL's applicability (was: Java and Python)
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3C984F44.1090001@pobox.com> <3C9887B9.6090603@thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <82B3E32A4EFF0E57.126AAAECC4E2B809.F8613C4251DB7A4B@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3C9887B9.6090603 at thinkware.se>,
Magnus =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=  <magnus at thinkware.se> wrote:
>Hi, as a Java coder you might want to look
>into Jython and combine your skills. That
>would for instance enable you to quickly
>prototype Java programs in Python.
Worth repeating.
>
>
>Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
>
>> May I ask you what the scal for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
>> related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
>> Python?
>
>
>
>Not at all.
>
>
>But I think both MySQL and Python scales well.
>MySQL has some shortcomings, and since the
>purchase cost is so low :) it's a good
>choise for systems with a small budget. But
>don't dismiss is as a weak database in larger
>settings. In places where you have many more
>reads than transactions, MySQL might well be
>the fastest choise.
Undeniably.  That's certainly the conclusion of "the first time
a computer publication has published database benchmark results
...", as *eWeek* did in its 25 February 2002 issue.  The subtitle
of the article was "Oracle9i and MySQL top the field ..."

So, no, MySQL is NOT "related to small to mid-size web applica-
tions".

I rarely use MySQL myself, because it doesn't happen to meet my
most common needs.  There are indeed several aspects in which
"scalability" can be interpreted in a way which disqualifies
MySQL.  I can imagine these might be particularly prominent for
someone coming from an OS/390 background.  The precision of
answers seen here, though, correlates the specificity of questions
quite closely.  When we're asked whether Python scales as poorly
as MySQL, with little more context, responses are ... unlikely to
hit the questioner's exact-although-unexpressed target.
			.
			.
			.
>There are many big web apps written in Python.
Worth repeating.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu  Tue Mar 26 15:08:50 2002
From: ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu (Omri Schwarz)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 15:08:50 -0500
Subject: urllib question. (asseumbling an HTTP post request)  
Message-ID: <octvgbj5bxp.fsf@no-knife.mit.edu>

Hi, all,

I'm trying to parse an HTML form in Python,
assemble a POST and send it off. Right now, here is
what the script I have does: 

# a regex to gather the inputs: 
findinput = re.compile('\<input type="(.*?)" *name="(.*?)" *value="(.*?)" *\>|\<input *type="(.*?)" *name="(.*?)" *(.*?)\>')
# then later on: 
	c = urllib.urlopen(b).read()
	subject = findsubject.search(c)
	if subject:
		print "Is this spam?\n"
		print subject.groups()[0]
		if (raw_input()[0] =='y') : 
# here's the part that may be going wrong:
			for cb in findinput.findall(c):
				print cb
				if cb[3] == 'checkbox':
					if cb[5] == 'checked' :
						poststring[cb[4]]= 'on'
				if cb[0] == 'hidden': 
					poststring[cb[1]]=cb[2]
			d = urllib.urlencode(poststring)
			print d
			res = urllib.urlopen('http://www.spamcop.net/sc',d).read()

The form has hidden inputs, checkboxes, 
and the submit button. 

When I use a browser (Netscape or Lynx),
everything is fine. When I try to use this
script, I get server side errors that are
no help to me.

So, has anyone already written a form parser
for this purpose? Can anyone think of other problems
that might be happening?

Thanks, in advance.
-- 
Omri Schwarz --- ocscwar at mit.edu ('h' before war) 
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Tue Mar 12 16:13:45 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:13:45 GMT
Subject: sorting nested dictionary
Message-ID: <dcuj8.9914$k5.3664995@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

i have a dictionary that looks something like the following:

{'ids': {'2778xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.6, 'raw': 5.0},
         '3059xxxxx': {'weighted': 6.1, 'raw': 6.0},
         '3188xxxxx': {'weighted': 3.2, 'raw': 4.0},
         '3216xxxxx': {'weighted': 10.1, 'raw': 7.0},
         '3257xxxxx': {'weighted': 9.7, 'raw': 9.0},
         '3266xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.8, 'raw': 3.0},}}

i would like to sort this portion by 'weighted'.  is there a quick (as in
programming time, not sorting time) better way to do this other than dumping
the values to a list, sorting, and realigning the data?  that seems so
unpythonic to me somehow.

thanks,

doug







From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Mar 19 17:20:11 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:20:11 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <xRDl8.10641$Hz2.42334@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3bsdkw9wu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vQOl8.11541$Hz2.47118@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Martin v. Loewis:

> Subclassing may not be the right solution - perhaps it is better to
> admit that ntmodule.c really should be different from
> posixmodule.c. What do you think?

   There is also a lot that should be shared, such as the docstrings, much
of the argument parsing as well as many of the posix calls. Splitting may
lead to more breakage when common patches aren't applied to both.

   Creating a separate file for NT doesn't generalise that well to the many
splits really present in posixmodule, with a quick look showing OS/2, QNX,
SCO and Windows splits along with at least three compilers on Windows
(Microsoft, Borland, Watcom). It needs a way to specify the base generic
posix case cleanly but then to allow platforms to specialise or remove those
functions needing different implementations or which can not be implemented.
In my own C++ work, I normally do this through subclassing.

   Neil




From grante at visi.com  Fri Mar 15 12:39:06 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:39:06 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016168907.4720.python-list@python.org> <USnk8.25666$N7.5384674@ruti.visi.com> <uk7sdzqem.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <_kqk8.25881$N7.5410299@ruti.visi.com>

In article <uk7sdzqem.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>, David Bolen wrote:
> grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
> 
>> That is true under Win32 -- Just one of the problems when using
>> an OS where the networking was pasted on (badly) as an
>> afterthought.
>> 
>> Under Unix, select works on all file descriptors (sockets,
>> pipes, serial ports, etc.).  That demonstrates the _right_ way
>> to paste on networking as an afterthought.
> 
> Of course, to be fair, it's not really networking that was pasted on
> badly but rather the socket interface.

TCP/IP networking that was pasted on as an afterthought, and
that's when select came into the picture.

> If you're using native Win32 operations on native Win32 file
> handles, you can perform asynchronous I/O and wait for
> completion on just about all the native kernel objects

Are TCP/IP connection native kernel objects?

> - and even mix in other signaling objects simultaneously.
>
> And winsock does provide a way to tie socket I/O into the same
> event system.
>
> In Unix, select just happens to be a more generic function,
> whereas in Windows it was grafted on as part of the socket
> library.  But that's more a portability issue than a comment on
> Windows internals.

Fair enough.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I was giving HAIR
                                  at               CUTS to th' SAUCER PEOPLE
                               visi.com            ... I'm CLEAN!!


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 12 00:00:02 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:00:02 -0500
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>
	 <7CWi8.104549$aFN.34864@news1.bloor.is> <tG4lQQEsZSj8EwU7@[127.0.0.1]>
Message-ID: <3C8D8B52.FAB4E102@engcorp.com>

Chris wrote:
> 
> In article <7CWi8.104549$aFN.34864 at news1.bloor.is>, Qiang.JL
> <dragon at china.org> writes
> >yeah. i have been following my post. thanks for everyone's input. It
> >helps!
> >seems a lot people recommend C over C++, i would keep this in mind and
> >get a go at it. i think i get a list of language to learn and go deeper
> >now : Java, C, Perl, Python, Lisp
> 
> I've been following it, too, with great interest.
> I reckon I'm going to go for Python and Java.
> Java is particularly attractive because you can distribute your programs
> to absolutely anybody in the form of applets.

Don't put much weight on the applet thing.  If you're thinking of 
having people run your program with their browser, you have to 
consider (a) the gross incompatibilities with the different 
implementations, and (b) that many (most?) people run with Java
disabled, or don't have Java in their browser at all.

Having tried in depth Java, C, C++, and Python (as well as many others)
I would suggest you learn Python, _then_ C, only _then_ Java, and
only C++ if you have a very specific business need for it (i.e. because
you'll become rich if you agree to prostitute yourself and write software 
using it, or kidnappers force you to do so).

And by the way, I'm a fan of both C and Java....

-Peter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 20:36:55 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 20:36:55 -0500
Subject: New-style exceptions?
References: <slrnaaerno.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a87s9c$9nd$1@panix1.panix.com> <a88cms$lhr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <a88djn$ckr$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <a88cms$lhr$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>,
Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
>> Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>Is there a reason why new-style objects can't be used in the raise
>>>statement?
>>
>> Because that's the way it currently works.  Inherit from Exception and
>> Bob's your uncle.
>
>Is there a reason why Exception can't be defined to inherit from
>'object' so that Uncle Bob does the right thing?

Patience, grasshopper, patience.  It will be at least another version or
two before any classic classes get converted to new-style classes, and I
doubt Exception would be the first.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From wayne at mishre.com  Sun Mar  3 23:43:15 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:43:15 -0800
Subject: Snack mod for python
References: <a5us1b$ha8$1@testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Message-ID: <3C82FB63.60007@mishre.com>


Russell Voutour wrote:
> Hi i'm using the Snack sound module for python and i've run into a problem and 
> was wondering if anyone had ever used it before. It installed find but when i use 
> the .play() method it tries to open my /dev/dsp and it gets a error because the 
> device does not exists it's under dev/sound/dsp. i've looked in the tkConfig file 
> and the tclConfig file and can't find anything any sugestions would be helpfull 
> thanks 

Ok, so I'm going to show some clueless-ness here...but can you just link 
/dev/dsp to /dev/sound/dsp?  Granted this may not be the "best" way to 
do it...but if /dev/dsp isn't used then it might work...keyword is might.

Wayne
-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From python at rcn.com  Sat Mar  2 03:46:52 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:46:52 -0500
Subject: map-like function on dict values?
References: <slrna7r0hi.bkl.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>        <mailman.1014861466.23611.python-list@python.org>        <slrna7suon.5gr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <mailman.1014929989.16553.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5q3i4$5nt$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1014929989.16553.python-list at python.org...
>
> def mapvalue(f, d):
>         keys = d.keys()
>         map(operator.setitem, [d]*len(keys), keys, map(f, d.values()))
>


The mapvalue test needs a tune-up.
Skipping the operator module and calling setitem
directly speeds things up a bit:

def tunedmap(f, d):
        return map( d.__setitem__, d.keys(), map(f, d.values()) )

I re-timed the result and it was close to the same as achieved for
iteriteritems.


Raymond Hettinger




From cfelling at iae.nl  Fri Mar  1 19:31:42 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 01:31:42 +0100
Subject: string to dictionary
References: <a2972632.0203011522.16f1b8e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5p6he$avj$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

les ander <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi, 
> i have a list of strings like this:

> aList=[ 'a_1 b_1', 'a_2 b_2', 'a_3 b_3',...]

> i want to convert this to a dictionary with a_i -> b_i without
> using loops (it is trivial to do it with loops)
> i tried this 

> dict={}
> map(lambda x,d=dict: c=string.split(x), d[c[0]]=c[1], aList)

try:
   >>> map(lambda x: d.__setitem__(*x), [x.split() for x in aList])
   [None, None, None]
   >>> d
   {'a_3': 'b_3', 'a_2': 'b_2', 'a_1': 'b_1'}

of with 2.2:
   >>> d = dict([x.split() for x in aList])
   >>> d
   {'a_3': 'b_3', 'a_2': 'b_2', 'a_1': 'b_1'}
-- 
groetjes, carel


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Mar 19 21:27:23 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:27:23 +1200
Subject: For loops with explicit indices -- again
References: <3c9789ed$0$29676$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3C97F38B.6631F75C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Armin Rigo wrote:
> 
>     it = iter(lst)
>     for x in it:
>         if x>0:
>             lst[it.count-1] -= 1

I find this ugly, particularly the need to use count-1
rather than just count. It's just begging for off-by-one
errors.

>     it.count += 1    # skip next element
>     it.count -= 1    # process the same element again
>     it.count = 0    # full rewind
>     it.count -= 1; del lst[it.count]    # remove bad item from list

This is even worse! It's tantamount to modifying
a loop control variable inside the loop, which is
widely regarded as a Bad Thing To Do from a
maintainability standpoint.

If the ability to modify the count is dropped,
I see nothing that can't be achieved more elegantly
using an iterator-wrapper such as the proposed
indexed() function that returns (index, value)
pairs.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar 18 18:22:11 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 23:22:11 GMT
Subject: os.popen4 and exit codes
References: <3C966B18.BB1E81BD@bgb.cc>
Message-ID: <a75sr3$pea$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Don Garrett <garrett at bgb.cc>:
|   My understanding for the popen2-4 functions was that they returned the exit
| code as the result of the last related call to close(). This seems to be
| working for me under Windows, but not Linux. This is the inverse of what I
| would expect.

|   The close DOES return the exit code when I use os.popen(), but I need to be
| able to capture stderr.

On UNIX, popen3 is implemented in Python, out of fork and pipe functions,
and unlike popen it returns 100% stock, common file objects.

To get exit status, you have to use the Popen3 class explicitly, so you
can call its wait() function.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From lac at strakt.com  Sat Mar  9 13:09:25 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:09:25 +0100
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Chermside <mcherm@destiny.com> 
   of "Mon, 08 Apr 2002 11:10:03 EDT." <3CB1B2CB.4050601@destiny.com> 
References: <3CB1B2CB.4050601@destiny.com> 
Message-ID: <200203091809.g29I9QtB024853@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Laura Creighton writes:
> > I think that it
> > would have been nice if when Guido was designing the language he
> > used Haskall's syntax for loops.  But he didn't.
> 
> I *still* haven't found time to learn Haskall, and a quick browse of the 
> docs didn't get me anywhere. Can you summarize what Haskall's syntax
> for loops IS? I realize this is a little off topic, but I'm curious.
> 
> -- Michael Chermside
> 

1.  Michael! Your Computer thinks its April!  You are making
    python archives one month ahead of yourself!
    (see: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-April/091714.html)

2. Haskell, which I mispelt, shame on me, I know better, is a
   functional language.  It has functional syntax - don't go there looking
   for a 'for loop'.  However, it also has list comprehensions, (which is
   where we got them from, I think).  So, what I meant was 'I wish that 
   Guido had used Haskell's syntax for arithmetic sequences in Python's 
   for loops'.  That is as follows:

   [1..10]     => [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
   [1,3..8]    => [1,3,5,7]
   [1,3..]     => [1,3,5,7,9, ... (infinite sequence)

   This is not restricted to numbers, char works great.
   
   ['A','B'..'Z'] => the upper case letters in English in alphabetical order

   you can also roll your own:
   
   If you make a user-defined enumerated class, such as statWisdom,
   you can use it like this:

   [inane..enlightened]  => [inane, stupid, idiotic, uneducated, 
                             educated, learned, wise, enlightened]

I have probably forgotten something, somebody else can add it.

3.  Make the time to learn Haskell.  It is simply too much fun.

Laura Creighton




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:46:35 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:46:35 -0500
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
References: <mailman.1016488083.29655.clpa-moderators@python.org> <uzo0wwfw8.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1017093440.10981.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9FC4EB.B92DCFB8@engcorp.com>

mo wrote:
> 
> > Michael Hudson <mwh at python.org> writes:
> >
> > > Depending on how many problems are found in this release, 2.2.1
> > > final or a second release candidate will follow next week.
> >
> > It will be 2.2.1c2 and it will be released in about 22 hours time.
> 
> This is like pacing outside a delivery room.  Thank you for this
> update.   More importantly, thanks to all of you "Doctors" laboring on
> our behalf.

Since when do _doctors_ do the "labor"?  ;-)

-yo-momma-ly yr's,
Peter


From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 11:34:45 2002
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 08:34:45 -0800
Subject: import gadfly causes 500 Server Error -- anyone know how to fix?
References: <3C8AFB43.275714BB@erols.com>
Message-ID: <915a998f.0203100834.6a247558@posting.google.com>

> I discovered that adding the "import gadfly" statement results
> in:
> 
> 500 Server Error

If you are using Python 2.2, you can make use of the now-standard
cgitb module to get a traceback report of the problem sent to your
browser. Put the following lines as early in the program as you can:

    import cgitb
    cgitb.enable()

Once you can see a fuller report of the problem you will be that much
closer to a solution.

For earlier versions of Python see http://web.lfw.org/python/ to get
hold of cgitb and instructions on how to deploy it.


Hamish Lawson


From store_li at sina.com  Mon Mar  4 10:42:06 2002
From: store_li at sina.com (Ricky)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:42:06 +0800
Subject: How can I use a foreign language char in Swing
References: <a5uoj2$a4su5$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a604lq$akvg7$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>

I sorry to post on the wrong newsgroup.

Any way,thank you for any help!
"Ricky" <store_li at sina.com> wrote in message
news:a5uoj2$a4su5$1 at ID-12869.news.dfncis.de...
> I installed J2SDK 1.4.0 several days ago. I need to get some strings from
> database which stored in GB2312 encode method, and display it using Swing.
I
> got correct result in Windows2000(Use China as default region and GB2312
as
> encode method.) While I??run it on Windows(English Edition), all I can see
> is ?????.
>
> What should I do? I think ResourceBoundle can't help me. Is there any
other
> method can help me?
>
>
>
>




From newsfroups at jerf.org  Mon Mar 11 20:12:08 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:12:08 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <yu998z8zywbi.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D5580.8020306@jerf.org>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

> Rather, it seems to me that Microsoft is saying that they will not
> allow their products to be used in any way that might potentially
> compel Microsoft to disclose any of their own source code.


This is true. The FUD lies in the fact that this is a chimera. It does 
not matter what *I* do with free software and Microsoft software. 
Nothing I do can possibly compel Microsoft to do *anything*. Any 
theoretical activity I may wish to do that might require the release of 
Microsoft code is not *legal* for me to engage in, because it requires 
rights I don't have. And even if I did engage in this activity, I woud 
be in violation of the law, and MS would *still* be obligation free.

There is no way Microsoft does not know this. There is no way the 
lawyer(s) writing this did not know that. The stated concerns are 
absurd; thus, the only logical conclusion is that MS is trying to spread 
the ***blatent*** falsehood that some user somewhere of your software 
may strip you of your software rights.

I'm not an "MS Hater", but I call 'em like I see 'em.





From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Mar 23 06:39:59 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 03:39:59 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <7xd6xwntgx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203230339.48961684@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in message news:<7xd6xwntgx.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> writes:
> > No, and it seems the problem is not with sorting.
> > I wanted to write a compact word counting script (well, in shell
> > it can be done in a 5 lines or so), just  for fun.
> >...
> > for i in a:
> >     if i not in known:
> 
> This is horrendously slow because for every input word, you're comparing
> it against all the previously seen words.

Horrendously slow can be better than not at all.

> 
> > it seems it's slow not because of sorting...
> 
> Correct.  I didn't examine your code carefully enough to be sure, but
> what I think you want is something like this:
> 
> counts = {}
> a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())
> for w in a:
>   if counts.has_key(w):
>      counts[w] += 1
>   else:
>      counts[w] = 1
> 
> words = counts.keys()
> words.sort()
> words.reverse()
> 
> for w in words:
>    print words[w], w

Sorry, but this doesn't work. If you were to actually *run* your code,
you would get this result [after adding

import string, sys

at the start of the script]:

    print words[w], w
TypeError: sequence index must be integer

At this stage "words" will be bound to something like ['zot', 'foo',
'bar'] and you are trying to access words['zot'] but "words" is a list
not a dictionary -- unlike in some other languages of which you may
have heard, like awk, they are different concepts in Python.

The problem starts back further with "counts.keys()". You need to use
the .items() method to get both the keys and the values out of the
dictionary, in a list of 2-tuples, like [('foo', 1), ('bar', 666),
('zot', 42)]. Then you need to fiddle with this list to bring the
count to the front of each tuple so that it can be the primary sort
key. For more information, google('Schwartzian transform Martelli')
either web-wide or in comp.lang.python. If as is usual the result is
to be presented in descending order of frequency, some care is
required so that words with the same frequency don't come out in
reversed order.

Try replacing the last part of the script with:

words = [(-count, word) for word, count in counts.items()]
words.sort()
for count, word in words:
   print word, -count

HTH,
John


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sat Mar  2 22:13:52 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 03:13:52 +0000
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-E81CC6.17470002032002@news.service.uci.edu> <2e138uoj0kivrqbju7c1oimt6fpv03bpgr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <t0538ugll6depm6vkm0og0cqc9rid7cvj8@4ax.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:09:50 +0000, Gon?alo Rodrigues
<op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:47:00 -0800, David Eppstein
><eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>
>>Here's another way of looking at the same question.
>>An iterable object has a next() function, that's what it means to be 
>>iterable.  If numbers are iterable, we can call number.next(), right?
>>So what should 5.next() be?  Surely anyone familiar with the Peano axioms 
>>would say 6, not 0!
>
>Let me add the following example on my post:
>
>>>> class Bogus:
>... 	def __init__(self, n):
>... 		self.n = n
>... 	def __iter__(self):
>... 		return range(n)
>... 	
>>>> a = Bogus(10)
>>>> a.next()
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>AttributeError: Bogus instance has no attribute 'next'
>>>> 

As you have probably noticed there is an EGREGIOUS error in the above.
My apologies for it (Is past 3 a.m. ...). It should go as

>>> class Bogus:
... 	def __init__(self, n):
... 		self.n = n
... 	def __iter__(self):
... 		return range(self.n)
... 	
>>> a = Bogus(6)
>>> a.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: Bogus instance has no attribute 'next'
>>> 


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Mar 29 21:10:46 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:10:46 -0700
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DC3@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Steven Majewski [mailto:sdm7g at Virginia.EDU]
> 
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> 
> > > From: Steve Lamb [mailto:grey at despair.dmiyu.org]
> > >
> > > its_called_a_directory_pointing_to_functions = {'case':closed}
> > >
> > >     I do not believe that any language which can have a hash
> > > of function pointers has any business with a case statement.
> >
> > But that only works when all the functions in all the branches take
the
> > same number and types of arguments -- hardly the general case.
> >
> 
> table = {}
> 
> table[key] = func, (args,...)
> ...
> 
> def doit( k ):
> 	return table[k][0]( *table[k][1] )

Point taken, but is this an argument for or against the match/switch
statement <wink>?

Personally, I don't think it's worth adding a match statement unless we
can have ML style pattern matching...

Not-sure-what-a-good-Pythonic-spelling-would-be-though'ly y'rs
-- bjorn



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Mar 19 04:10:21 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:10:21 +0000
Subject: Pure python alternative to mx.DateTime?
References: <a76u45$2iro$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de>
Message-ID: <3C97007D.6000605@mxm.dk>

Lutz Schroeer wrote:

> One of my web hosts does not have a C compiler installed so I can't install
> mx.DateTime on that machine, because it need some C routines.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm in need of some simple time and date calculations
> (ISO-time, how many days from now, weekdays, etc.).
> 
> Is there any alternative to mx without inventing the wheel for the second
> time and programming it by myself?

Hmm you could just pull out the DateTime module from Zope. It is not as 
well developed as the mx tools, but will probably do what you need.

I just looked at it, and it doesn't seem to be dependent on anything in 
Zope.

regards Max M



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar  6 18:11:48 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:11:48 +1100 
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1E6@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: James_Althoff at i2.com [mailto:James_Althoff at i2.com]
> 
> [Bernhard Herzog]
> > That's not quite right, I think :)
> >
> > [f(x)
> >  for x in range((4 in range(3)) in range((2 in range(3))))
> >    if x in range((x+1 in range(x*2)))]
> >
> > would me more like it (but it's late so there may still be 
> a mistake :) )
> 
> Thanks (I think <wink>).
> 
> 
> [James Althoff]
> > Can you suggest a less contrived example that might be a problem?
> [Bernhard Herzog]
> > x, = 1
> >
> > would assign 0 to x instead of raising an error.
> 
> Agreed.  Note that this example has been in the PEP from the 
> beginning.

And in my opinion would be something that should be checked by PyChecker ...

Tim Delaney



From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar  4 05:49:30 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 04:49:30 -0600
Subject: How can I use a foreign language char in Swing
In-Reply-To: <m3y9h8zs59.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEMIDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> "Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:
> >   1.  Missing Fonts.  Seems unlikely.  But if this is the problem,
> >       it's easy to fix.  :)
> 
> Actually, this is quite likely: MS normally choses "?" as the
> replacement character, and you need to explicitly request CJK fonts
> when installing the English edition of W2k. If "Windows" really means
> "W9x" in this context, things are probably even worse.

Wow, really?  I know next to nothing about it - but it feels
as though I once heard that fonts have an explicit "i-am-stumped"
glyph, usually an empty box...

In any case, under Swing, it seems empty blocks are used as
placeholders for characters that are not present in any font.
(I had thought that installing the Java 1.4 SDK installs at least
one rather comprehensive Unicode font, but on tinkering around
just now, it seems many scripts aren't included.  Blah.)
It also seems that Java likes to convert unrecognized bytes
to '?'s when decoding.  So: yes, missing fonts are a much more
likely problem than I guessed -- but I suspect that there's also
a problem with encodings somewhere.  (sigh)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Mar  1 07:07:26 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 04:07:26 -0800
Subject: Apology to Bill Gates (was Re: ASV module, CVS modules)
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203010407.220cba32@posting.google.com>

sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote in message news:<c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a at posting.google.com>...
> >     my_data.input_from_file("c:\test_data.csv", ASV.CSV(),
> >   File "C:\PYTHON22\ASV.py", line 222, in input_from_file
> >     file = open(input_file, "rb")
> > IOError: invalid argument: rb
> Bill behaving badly: Seems like Bill chucks a wobbly if there is
> a_bloody_tab_character in a file name. I could be maligning Bill
> unjustly; could be GvR & Co -- I'll have a look at the Python source
> in a minute -- but I'd bet a couple of pots of beer that it's down to
> Bill.

Looks like the Windows compiler runtimes, enforcing the (sensible,
IMO) Windows rule that file names shouldn't have "unprintable"
characters in them, are faced with signalling the error with a
least-bad choice of errno: ENOENT ("No such file or directory") or
EINVAL ("Invalid argument"). Borland chose ENOENT, MS chose EINVAL.

Python, starting from a Unix background, where there is evidently no
such thing as an invalid character in a file name, can only imagine
that EINVAL must refer to the mode argument, and in fact special-cases
EINVAL (see below) to produce the error message that baffled (inter
alia) the OP.

if (errno == EINVAL)
    PyErr_Format(PyExc_IOError, "invalid argument: %s", mode);
else
    PyErr_SetFromErrnoWithFilename(PyExc_IOError, name);

However given what Tim P. said in a recent posting, I won't add to the
patching bottleneck by rushing off to file an enhancement request on
this one.


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 26 06:08:49 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:08:49 -0600
Subject: Memory Error while simulating matrix
In-Reply-To: <d65d1805.0203252138.571d5708@posting.google.com>
References: <d65d1805.0203252138.571d5708@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15520.22209.295989.738490@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    slick> When i execute the code(part of an algorithm code) given below, i
    slick> get a MemoryError.

    row = []                # list 
    row = [0] * 1000000     # each row contains million columns 
    matrix =[]              # contains a collection of rows  

    for i in range(1000):   # creating a matix of 1000 rows each 
      matrix.append(row[:]) # having a million  columns

You are trying to create 1,000 lists, each with 1,000,000 elements, or 10**9
4-byte object pointers, so at minimum you will be chewing 4GB of virtual
memory, probably much more once your matrix becomes a bit less uniform.  To
keep from getting a MemoryError you should have at least that much swap
space.  Actually much more.  Integer overhead is 12 bytes per object.
(Float overhead is 16 bytes per object.)  Assuming most of the elements of
your matrix are not recycled integers between -1 and 100, your memory
consumption will be closer to 20GB than 4GB.

Obviously, you can use the array module or NumPy.  Both of those are going
to push the memory consumption closer to the 4GB end of things.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl  Fri Mar 29 09:35:57 2002
From: I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl (Fused)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:35:57 GMT
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203291353040.8440-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <3ca47917.18551297@news.tudelft.nl>

Two replies in a message:

Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> wrote:
>
>Great! How about implementing Delphi to Python translator? 
>Basically, you'll need to write a parser that reads Delphi (OOP) code and
>then translates it to the corresponding Python code.
>There are many yacc/lex type of packages already available that will ease
>this job. I recommend PLY
>  http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/
>
That would be very satisfactory to implement. However, I think I'd
spend lots of time on understanding lex/yacc and meticulously
analysing the Delphi grammar and less time actually building something
in Python. Then again, almost every non-trivial program requires
acquiring additional knowledge. Interesting idea, thanks.

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>I'd really like to see a Python mail/newsreader. That would teach you a lot,
>and keep you busy for a while...
>
It would teach me indeed, especially since I know next to nothing
about mail/news protocols :) But why would you specifically want a
Python mail/newsreader, when there are plenty of good mail/newsreaders
around?


From borcis at geneva-link.ch  Mon Mar 11 09:35:58 2002
From: borcis at geneva-link.ch (Boris^2)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:35:58 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC0CE.50509@geneva-link.ch>


Hans Nowak wrote:

> Eric Brunel wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Found the following link on comp.lang.tcl. A bit long, but worth reading...
>>
>>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3B40A4A7.6E39BD%40brad-aisa.com&rnum=1
>>
> 
> It's not April 1st yet...


What sounds really like April 1st is M$ naming open source software 
(rather than, eg, Outlook or Windows) "potentially viral software".

Cheers,

Boris Borcic



From uwe at rocksport.de  Tue Mar 26 05:49:46 2002
From: uwe at rocksport.de (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 10:49:46 GMT
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:


| Are you sure that you want to use ShowModal()??  How are you setting up your
| window?

| This function looks okay to me, as far as it goes, but it's hard to say what
| might be going on if we don't know where window is coming from.  I presume that
| it's a wxDialog of some sort?  If so, why aren't you subclassing wxDialog and
| putting this code in your __init__(), then calling ShowModal() from the function
| that creates the dialog?

I got the answer in the wxwindows-group: there is just
a window.Layout() call missing. Thats it and everything is fine..

Greetings, Uwe.


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468


From justin at iago.org  Thu Mar  7 11:12:44 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:12:44 -0500
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org>
	<6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <x7ofi05pc3.fsf@ra.iago.org>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> writes:

> Do we really want all of these new behaviors?

No.  Please, no.

I still don't see what this proposal provides in terms of a real gain
in order to offset the obvious potential for ugliness, mistakes, and
the appearance of ambiguity.

Not having to type "range" or "xrange" doesn't count as a real gain.

The PEP describes having to use range in this context as a wart, but I
don't remember it ever being referred to as such before this PEP.

-Justin

 




From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Mar 21 16:03:41 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:03:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-BC2D59.11272021032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211600520.351-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, David Eppstein wrote:

> In article <mailman.1016735254.27977.python-list at python.org>,
>  Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > >>> os.environ['OS']
> > > 'Windows_NT'
> > >
> > > No idea what it does on other platforms.
> >
> > It depends upon whether the environment variable "OS" is present, so it's
> > probably less reliable than sys.platform (doesn't exist on RH Linux, at
> > least).
>
> Another one where os.environ['OS'] doesn't exist:
>
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.platform
> 'mac'
> >>> import os
> >>> os.environ
> {}
> >>> os.name
> 'mac'
>
> Not sure how you're supposed to distinguish Classic from Darwin...

On OSX, running the command-line (unix) mach-o python:

Python 2.2.1c1 (#1, Mar 19 2002, 02:06:22)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os,sys
>>> sys.platform
'darwin'
>>> os.name
'posix'

But running the carbonized MacPython on OSX yields same as Classic:

Python 2.2 (#123, Dec 22 2001, 00:11:59)  [CW CARBON GUSI2 THREADS GC] on mac
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys,os
>>> sys.platform
'mac'
>>> os.name
'mac'


-- Steve Majewski




From jochen at unc.edu  Tue Mar 19 20:06:07 2002
From: jochen at unc.edu (Jochen =?iso-8859-1?q?K=FCpper?=)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:06:07 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENIOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENIOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <lyd6y0m6o6.fsf@bock.chem.unc.edu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 00:17:40 -0500 Tim Peters wrote:

Tim> I hope the bogus underflow problem is fixed in CVS Python now.
Tim> Since my platform didn't have the problem (and still doesn't, of
Tim> course), we won't know for sure until people try it and report
Tim> back.

Ok, looking at SourceForge and google this seems to be fixed in cvs
HEAD.  Would it be possible to put the same patch into the cvs
python-2.2 branch, please? [1]

Greetings,
Jochen

Footnotes: 
[1]  If it is in there, it doesn't work for me with current python cvs
     branch release22-maint.  I still have to manually add -lieee.
     (RedHat-7.0 with current updates.)
- -- 
University of North Carolina                       phone: +1-919-962-4403
Department of Chemistry                            phone: +1-919-962-1579
Venable Hall CB#3290 (Kenan C148)                    fax: +1-919-843-6041
Chapel Hill, NC 27599, USA                            GnuPG key: 44BCCD8E
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Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt and GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iEYEARECAAYFAjyX4IAACgkQiJ/aUUS8zY52jgCbB69a8KZmCuk9MYIKzNu7EpBR
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From olc at ninti.com  Sun Mar 31 16:34:30 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:04:30 +0930 (CST)
Subject: relational database?
In-Reply-To: <pRzp8.4373$hi7.15765@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0204010700310.2339-100000@localhost.localdomain>

I find MySQL very easy to set up and use with Python (and PHP).
All you need is the MySQLdb module ... easy to install and use.

Mick



On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Trung Hoang wrote:

> What relational database is easy to setup and use with python? besides msql
> (im having some problems)
> 
> Cheeeers..
> trungie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-----------------------------
Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
-----------------------------




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 20 01:40:33 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 07:40:33 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:

> I know there are several solutions available for building standalone
> binary executables from Python programs (Freeze, py2exe, McMillan
> Installer, etc.) -- I just wondered if it would be possible to add
> functionality like this to distutils?

That is certainly possible; freeze would be the obvious choice for
such a mechanism (IMO). Alas, distutils is unmaintained, so don't wait
for anybody else to implement it for you.

Regards,
Martin



From joonas at olen.to  Tue Mar 12 05:57:10 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:57:10 GMT
Subject: IDv2/IDv3 Tag on mp3-files
References: <a6kk97$euq4d$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3C8DDFDC.7090601@olen.to>

Andreas Penzel wrote:
> Hello NG!
> 
> Is it possible, to read the IDv2 or IDv3 Tag from mp3-files?

Yes, it is.
http://id3-py.sourceforge.net/



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 22:30:45 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:30:45 -0500
Subject: execfile() - change python version?
References: <VK9p8.1492$hi7.2657@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3CA53165.E3A765A4@engcorp.com>

Trung Hoang wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> i was wondering if there is a way to change which version of python
> processing the file when execfile().

No.  execfile() is basically "execute this file using the currently
running version of Python".

> i wish to use python2.2 on the main file, and python2.1 on the file passed
> into the argument of execfile().

Don't use execfile().  Use os.system() and run the version you want instead.

> reason being: there is some sort of mis configuration error on the server i
> am using python on.

Sounds like there must be an easier way to solve the problem.  Can
you give more detail on this "misconfiguration error"?


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 05:24:31 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:24:31 -0600
Subject: python name spaces
In-Reply-To: <m3n0xfontm.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEKADIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

> I must admit I am frustrated by Python's seeming lack of powerful name
> space support.  For example, in Perl I can do something like this,
>
> [...]
>
> Arbitrarily creating variables and subroutines with different scopes.
> (The actual example seems silly, but really isn't.)

Oh yes it is.  Give a realistic example, and maybe you'll get
a decent response.  Until then,

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=000701bde83f%249e2bdba0%24589e2299%40ti
m

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 16:54:05 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:54:05 +0000
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <yu998z8zywbi.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <3C8D5580.8020306@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8su7t.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:12:08 GMT, Jeremy Bowers <newsfroups at jerf.org> wrote:
>
>There is no way Microsoft does not know this. 

Indeed so.

>There is no way the 
>lawyer(s) writing this did not know that. The stated concerns are 
>absurd; thus, the only logical conclusion is that MS is trying to spread 
>the ***blatent*** falsehood that some user somewhere of your software 
>may strip you of your software rights.

Lying to get money = fraud

I think MicroShit's directors and laywers should be banged up for a 
few years.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 14:04:34 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:04:34 -0800
Subject: Newspaper infiltration
References: <WP8m8.14179$Hz2.58844@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9B8042.81117726@ccvcorp.com>


Neil Hodgson wrote:

>    It appears that some Python force is contaminating the ordinarily
> technically challenged mainstream Australian press. First we get an
> Interview with Mark, then this Zope article turns up on the second page of
> the IT section of the local paper:
> http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/19/FFXF7G6VSYC.html
>
>    Could it be a sleeper from the

And it appears that that entire site has been redirected.  Coincidence?  I
doubt it.

;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sat Mar  9 00:19:02 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:19:02 -0600
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <3C895594.60601@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <00a801c1c729$f1ae40c0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Macy" <l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com>
> 
>    Just out of curiosity, what does the rest of your group develop in 
> then?  FORTRAN?  COBOL? ("and none of this ANSI85 crap, either...it gets 
> old trying to hit a moving target!")

Yeah, but "major" language standards change every few years... Python
releases come about 1-2 per year.  We have to resist the urge to change
something major in the core too frequently.





From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar  4 16:57:02 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:57:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical   computation?
References: <mailman.1015093025.26217.python-list@python.org> <a5ro4e$a31$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <slrna87r83.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:44:50 +0100, Alberto Griggio <albgrig at tiscalinet.it>
wrote: 
>
>#include <stdio.h>
>#include <math.h>
>#include <errno.h>
>#include <string.h>
>
>int main(void)
>{
>    double d;
>    errno = 0;
>    d = pow(1e-200, 2);
>    if(!errno) printf("OK: %f\n", d);
>    else printf("Error: %d, %s\n", errno, strerror(errno));
>    return errno;
>}
>
>prints: Error: 34, Numerical result out of range
>
>On slackware 8.0, GCC 2.95.3, libc 2.2.3, both the python and the C
>code fail.
>
>Finally, if you change pow to powf in the C code above, it gives no 
>error.
>
>Hope someone can understand what's happening...

It's more strange than first thought.  This produce errno 34 on BOTH the
following systems, but one raises exception while the other does not.

Red Hat 6.1 upgraded piecewise to 7.1:
C produce errno 34, but Python 2.2 does not raise.

SuSE 7.1:
C produce errno 34, and Python 2.2 raise.  Details here

$ python
Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 28 2002, 16:44:48) 
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
$ rpm -q gcc glibc
gcc-2.95.2-149
glibc-2.2-7

Can someone please expand on the above C program to test from other possible
culprits?


Huaiyu




From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 11:11:54 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:11:54 GMT
Subject: Info needed on metaclasses / type-ing
References: <a7i109$ufh$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>
Message-ID: <eP1n8.26514$7b.2250756@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Dimitris Garanatsios" <rs96057 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a7i109$ufh$1 at ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
> I recently browsed through an unfinished book of Bruce Eckel,
"Thinking in
> Python", Revision 0.1.2
> I found the following peace of code there:

> class SingletonMetaClass(type):
...
> My question is about the "SingletonMetaClass" class.
> I have tried in the past to create my own types using Python and
just could
> not find a way of doing that since built-in type objects' structure
where
> not documented.
>
> The "SingletonMetaClass though", as far as i can understand, please
help me
> with that, is doing exactly what i wanted: a new type definition.

Actually, you can new derive new types from old without using the more
complex metaclass machinery.  See below.

> I browsed  Python's manuals to find more about the attributes and
functions
> that are  used, but found nothing...
...
Everything you ask about is new to Python 2.2.  Did you search *that*
manual?  Look in "What's new for Python 2.2" (or something like that)
and read the GvR essay referenced therein which is a semi-tutorial on
the new type/class stuff.

Terry J. Reedy





From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 19:56:29 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:56:29 +0000
Subject: ANNOUNCE: PyQt v3.1 Released
Message-ID: <3C9D243D.8E24763C@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

PyQt v3.1 is available to download from
http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php.

PyQt is the set of Python bindings to Trolltech's GUI toolkit and
contains 300 classes and over 5,750 functions and methods. Classes
include access to Qt's XML parser, SQL support, as well as a
comprehensive range of user interface widgets.

PyQt supports all versions of Qt under Windows and UNIX/Linux, and
Qt/Embedded for the Sharp Zaurus and the Compaq iPAQ.

Binary packages are provided for the non-commercial edition of Qt under
Windows and for the Zaurus (which may also work with the iPAQ).

Changes in this release include...

- support for Qt's thread classes
- support for Qt/Embedded
- addition of the qtpe (Qt Palmtop Environment) module

Included with PyQt is pyuic which generates Python code from GUIs
created with Qt Designer.

Boudewijn Rempt's book on programming with PyQt can be found at
http://stage.linuxports.com/projects/pyqt/.

SIP v3.1 (the bindings generator used to create PyQt) is also available
at http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/download.php. Note that the
SIP run-time library is now implemented as a Python extension module.
You should probably remove any earlier version before upgrading.

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk is the new home of SIP, PyQt and
PyKDE.

Phil



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar 21 01:29:52 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:29:52 -0500
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
In-Reply-To: <m3wuw6v3xx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEGGOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Martin v. Loewis]
> ...
> Since March 2001, 30 distutils bugs have been closed, so one out
> of three distutils bugs is still pending (for Python in general, the
> ratio is 1:9).

Dang, disutils is *still* winning!  I was hoping to drive Python down to
1:2, but we just aren't getting enough HP-UX and AIX users to drive us to
total despair.  OK, how about everybody try threads, whether they understand
threads or not (well, *especially* if not), and file a vague yet irate bug
report for every behavior they don't fully understand?  Throw some signals
into the mix too.  And GNU readline!  If that ran on more platforms, we'd
have plenty of chronic bug reports to push us over the coveted "give up"
threshold.

i-have-a-dream-ly y'rs  - tim




From r.salz at verizon.net  Thu Mar 21 11:00:27 2002
From: r.salz at verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:00:27 GMT
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net> <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com> <mailman.1016700873.1797.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A03A6.2020601@verizon.net>

So are they #define's, which are compile-time read-only constants (hence 
my solution which allows runtime enforcement of read-only-ness :), or 
are they default values you can get and set from a config file (use the 
library module as others mentioned)?
	/r$



From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar  7 05:39:07 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:39:07 GMT
Subject: Python/C - Memory-Management
References: <d013da35.0203070154.64411e59@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u7koo4q21.fsf@python.net>

heiko.wolf at dlr.de (Heiko Wolf) writes:

> Hi there,
> 
> I've got some C-functions that shall be adressed from Python. Thats no
> problem, thanks to SWIG.
> 
> But now there is a problem about the memory management: One of the
> C-functions allocates memory for all the other functions. In C it
> works that way:

[snip]

> If another function calls init_mem, it can use memory until free_mem
> is called... I want to do the same now in Python, but it seems as if
> the static memory isnt kept somewhere? When I try accessing it, I
> get a Segmentation Fault... Any suggestions?

No.  More details?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  > so python will fork if activestate starts polluting it?
  I find it more relevant to speculate on whether Python would fork
  if the merpeople start invading our cities riding on the backs of 
  giant king crabs.                 -- Brian Quinlan, comp.lang.python


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 16:57:59 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:57:59 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
In-Reply-To: <slrnaa9m4p.7e6.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>
	<slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
	<junkster-FC1F06.05481529032002@typhoon4-1.nyroc.rr.com>
	<slrnaa9m4p.7e6.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <20020329135759.6050a0e0.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:11:48 -0000
Steve Lamb wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:48:15 GMT, Benjamin Schollnick
<junkster at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> > IF X == 0:
> >    DO_THIS ()
> > ELIF X == 2:
> >    DO_THIS (2)
> > ELIF X == 4:
> >    DO_THIS (X+2)
> > ELIF Y == 6:
> >    DO_THIS()
> > ELIF Z == "ZEBRA":
> >    DO_THIS ( ZEBRA )
> > ELSE:
> >    DO_NOT_DO_THIS ()
>  
>  
> > But, this routine is not exactly readable compared to a case:
>  
> > CASE X of:
> >    0  : DO_THIS()
> >    2  : DO_THIS (2)
> >    4  : DO_THIS (x+2)
> >    6  : DO_THIS ()
> >  ELSE:
> >       DO_NOT_DO_THIS()
> 
> its_called_a_directory_pointing_to_functions = {'case':closed}
> 
>     I do not believe that any language which can have a hash of function
> pointers has any business with a case statement.

The case statement is definitely cleaner than the if/elif/else construct. 
I'd have to agree with Steve Lamb that you can use hash pointers, so you
could also do (lambdas necessary to duplicate above case statement):

{ # case x of
    0: lambda x: do_this(),
    2: lambda x: do_this(2),
    4: lambda x: do_this(x + 2),
    6: lambda x: do_this(),
}.get(x, lambda x: do_not_do_this())(x)

But I'm not sure that this is very clear code (at least not at first
glance).  I don't feel that passionate either way on the subject.  Probably
having a case statement would make some things clearer but might also
encourage less though out approaches to problems.  Situations where you
must test for many individual values are usually an indication that your
solution isn't general enough.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar 23 08:24:22 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 05:24:22 -0800
Subject: Extending the interactive mode [not really an ANN :) ]
References: <mailman.1016879616.31903.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7i020$lib48$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Tjabo Kloppenburg" <Tjabo.Kloppenburg at unix-ag.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016879616.31903.python-list at python.org...
> hi,
>
> I use python22 and dreamt about a comfortable way of using the
interactive
> mode to find information about what methods/functions a class/module
provides
> and what the helpful __doc__ string says (keeping ri [ruby] in my
mind).
>

Do you know about help?

>>> help (sys.exit)
Help on built-in function exit:

exit(...)
    exit([status])

    Exit the interpreter by raising SystemExit(status).
    If the status is omitted or None, it defaults to zero (i.e.,
success).
    If the status numeric, it will be used as the system exit status.
    If it is another kind of object, it will be printed and the system
    exit status will be one (i.e., failure).



--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 17:48:19 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:48:19 -0800
Subject: Using doctest and executing a process
In-Reply-To: <10d46bdc.0203111449.6bd761f5@posting.google.com>
References: <10d46bdc.0203111449.6bd761f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020311144819.45ff2d94.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 11 Mar 2002 14:49:55 -0800
Douglas Garstang wrote:

> def tester3():
>     """
>     >>> import os
>     >>> os.system ('/bin/ls')
>     example.py   example.pyc  tester.py
>     0
>     """

[snip]

> WHY? It runs fine interactively. It also knows to expect the right
> stuff. It just SEEMS to think its only getting the return status code
> of 0. Where did the other output from the external program go? I also
> tried using os.spawnv instead of os.system and I got the same results.

os.system returns the exit status of the program (0 in this case).  The
directory listing went to stdout.  Try:

import os
ls = os.popen("/bin/ls", 'r').read()

which will capture stdout into the variable ls.



-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Sat Mar 23 16:35:40 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:35:40 -0700
Subject: Getopt / matching problem
References: <3C9751DD.1070204@beth.uniforum.org.za> <mailman.1016553213.4623.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7isk1$5po$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Andy Gimblett:
>From the getopt module documentation:
>
>    Long options on the command line can be recognized so long as they
>    provide a prefix of the option name that matches exactly one of
>    the accepted options.  For example, it long_options is ['foo',
>    'frob'], the option --fo will match as --foo, but --f will not
>    match uniquely, so GetoptError will be raised.
>
>So it's nothing to worry about, just the documented behaviour, and
>really the way we'd want it to work, if you think about.

Hmm.  It's not the way I want it to work.  I didn't expect it to
work.  I don't like stemming because if it's used then it prevents
future version of the code from introducing a new option which
introduces ambiguous stemming.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 19:57:35 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:57:35 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015476552.2207.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C880C7F.E304D98C@ccvcorp.com>


Jesse W wrote:

> The ugly posibiliites:
> for i in 5:
>         print i*2,
> #Would print: 8 6 4 2 0
> #Why?  What posible sense would this make?

No, it would print: 0 2 4 6 8

It doesn't make any less sense to do this than it does to say

for i in xrange(5):
    print i * 2

These two loops would become equivalent.


> var=-2
> for i in var:
>         print i
> #Would generate an error of some kind because var is negative.

Well, the same thing happens with 'for i in range(var):' in this case.
Actually, range() on a negative number returns an empty list;  I'd presume
that iter() on a negative number should immediately raise StopIteration.


> #Or, look at this:
> def foo(var):
>     var=int(var)
>     var=var*5
>     var=var/3
>     var+= 12.3
>     for i in var*2:
>         print i
> #Will this generate an error?

This may actually be a valid point -- range(float) currently is equivalent to
range(int(float)), but PEP 276 doesn't propose any new behavior for floats,
so this should raise an exception.  Still, I think that it's reasonable to
expect for programmers to not try to iterate/loop over a float value.


>         I am sure that others can think of more unpleasent posibilities.
> The basic problem is that the proposal is simply too broad.

One of the things that really disturbs me about this proposal, is the
possibility of integers taking on a new meaning in other contexts than loops,
where the iterator protocol is used but this behavior might *not* be
'natural' for integers.  I don't know of any other such contexts off the top
of my head, except for if statements.  Personally, I see 'if x in 5' being a
wonderful chance to create all sorts of confusion, but others may disagree.
(Of course, I see 'for x in 5' as being likely to create confusion, and
others *obviously* disagree with that. <wink>)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From emile at fenx.com  Sun Mar 31 14:51:31 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:51:31 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net> <3CA75ECC.389A0186@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <2NJp8.140405$Yv2.43077@rwcrnsc54>

Erik Max Francis
> Stefan Schwarzer wrote:
> > but on the other hand have to keep in mind subtle interactions
between
> > bools and ints. For example, I consider it very unintutive that
> > "True == 1" should by true but "True == 2" should be false.
>
> Why?  Implicit conversions seem un-Pythonic, so why would this be
> unfortunate?  When you write (True == 2) you're asking, "Is the value
> true equal to the integer value 2?" the answer to which is clearly no.

If a=b, shouldn't a==a, a==b and b==a all be true?

Someone (Guido?) already mentioned that testing for true is redundant,
but doesn't :
    if 2:
imply
    if 2 == True:
which in turn then implies that:
    True == 2
is true?

Or-would-we-be-restricted-to-while-1:-ly y'rs

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar  6 22:54:09 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:54:09 -0500
Subject: Threading help?
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
		<3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>
		<20020306132612.4a5d756a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
		<mailman.1015453332.10152.python-list@python.org>
		<3C86BD6F.9D258DA7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1015465692.10788.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86E461.BE9BFDAA@engcorp.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Cliff Wells wrote:
> > > Hm.  Okay, I had to reconsider this.  Clearly if the processing is slower
> > > than .1s and data is being added to it every .1s, the Queue is going to
> > > endlessly grow as more data is added to it.  If this is the case, it might 
> > > make sense to have more than one consumer thread (B) doing the processing.
> >
> > I might be missing something, but I don't see how adding another thread
> > (with a slight extra overhead associated with it) would actually increase
> > performance for what I infer is CPU-bound processing in thread B.
> 
> Yes, I thought of this, but I believe that this would give the net effect
> of increasing thread priority for the B threads (since they will get more
> CPU time as a whole vs threads A and C).

Ah, interesting.  I hadn't thought before of how the Python interpreter's
technique of executing a set number of instructions before switching context
would let you do something tricky like that.  Neat.

In any case, when you said "have thread A retrieve the data every .1s"
I figured this was a soft realtime situation, and stealing CPU from thread
A would not necessarily be what you need.  If between A and B you are taking
up all the time, you need to optimize the code, or do what you suggested
below and drop data (or increase the sampling period):

> But maybe a better approach would be this: if processing time is greater
> than .1s and we don't care about out-of-date data (big assumption, but not
> unreasonable), then use the Queue between A and B and simply have B empty
> the Queue on every iteration, processing only the newest data.  This would
> keep the Queue to a reasonable size at the cost of dropping data.

I suppose the acceptability of that depends on your requirements...
dropping data is never a very general approach. :-)

-Peter


From neal at metaslash.com  Fri Mar 22 17:18:19 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:18:19 -0500
Subject: Copmlex structures....
References: <iUMm8.141$%52.3298@jekyl.ab.tac.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BADAB.3F8D1123@metaslash.com>

"Dmitry S. Makovey" wrote:
> 
> Hi. The problem itself is - I want to use complex structures like described
> below, but i want it another way....
> 
> 01. >>> f={}
> 02. >>> f['name']='dimon'
> 03. >>> f['age']=20
> 04. >>> a=[]
> 05. >>> a.append(f)
> 06. >>> print a
> 07. [{'age': 20, 'name': 'dimon'}]
> 08. >>> f['age']=22
> 09. >>> print a
> 10. [{'age': 22, 'name': 'dimon'}]
> 
> I don't like result in the last like I've expected to have [{'age': 20,
> 'name': 'dimon'}], how could i do this?
> 
> I know that it must be as simple as using something like b[:], but what?

	f.copy()

>>> f={}
>>> f['name'] = 'dimon'
>>> f['age']=20
>>> a=[]
>>> a.append(f.copy())
>>> print a
[{'age': 20, 'name': 'dimon'}]
>>> f['age']=22
>>> print a
[{'age': 20, 'name': 'dimon'}]

Neal


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 04:19:19 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:19:19 +0000
Subject: list of empty lists
References: <3CA11A5B.5000501@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <ocwrQIAX6Yo8EwNa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <3CA11A5B.5000501 at bioeng.ucsd.edu>, Curtis Jensen
<cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu> writes
>Is there a easy way to make a list of an arbitray number of empty lists?
>
>I can do something like:
>>>> some_number = 3
>>>> l = [[]] * some_number
>>>> l
>[[], [], []]
>
>Unfortunatly this has an unfortunate side affect.  Whatever I do to one 
>of the list gets done to the other lists. ie:
>>>> l[0].append(1)
>>>> l
>[[1], [1], [1]]
>
>
>In this case, what I would like is three independantly empty lists.  I 
>can make a for loop to loop "some_number" of times and append an empty 
>list at each itteration.  Is there a simpler way?
>Thanks.
>
there was a thread about this a while back mainly focussed on the most
efficient way to do this for big lists. I think the winner was something
like

map(list, [[]]*n)


-- 
Robin Becker


From grante at visi.com  Tue Mar 12 16:13:55 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:13:55 GMT
Subject: serial port communication
References: <3c8e6884.10907140@news.planetis.com>
Message-ID: <ncuj8.20190$N7.4739028@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3c8e6884.10907140 at news.planetis.com>, Hugo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I try to have a communication between two computers using the serial
> ports.
> 
> In the interpretor, I just try these instructions :
>>>> from os import *
>>>> fd = open ('/dev/ttyS0', O_RDWR)
>>>> write (fd, "a")
> 1
>>>> read (fd, 1)

> and everything stop : the read() instruction is probably waiting for
> something (I send a character from the other computer but it doesn't
> work) ? 

Unless you've changed the port, it's probably in line-buffered
(cooked) mode, and it's waiting for a newline before it hands
over the line of text to you.


> a stop byte ? or I have use a "timeout" thing ? or the termios
> module ?

That depends on what you want it to do.

> I don't know !

We don't either !

There are a couple serial port libraries around that can make
life easier.  Mine is strictly for Posix (Unix) systems:

 ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/PosixSerial.py

There are some others that are cross-platform, and Googling for
"serial" in comp.lang.python should find them.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. my NOSE is NUMB!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 08:21:23 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:21:23 -0500
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com> <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <3C91F553.D9E511CB@engcorp.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> >> I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows
> >> machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a few
> >> people who actively test for the project at home.
> >>
> >> Anyone have any suggestions on where I should go? Anyone can help me out
> >> here?
> >
> > Why not find and use one of the several free installer programs, rather
> > than trying to write something from scratch yourself?
> >
> > For example, try looking at google with "free windows installers" and
> > follow the first link you find.
> 
> NSIS rocks. But AFAIR his problem is that he doesn't have a Windows
> box to build the installer on.

D'oh!  You're right, my brain wouldn't absorb that concept.  Someone
writing a Windows installer in Python because he doesn't have a 
Windows box to run the real Windows installers on.  It boggles the 
mind: how does he plan to test?!

> The best solution to this problem is to give in and get a damn Windows
> box.  

It's about the only solution, although "get" could mean "find someone
else to help" in this case, as he suggested above.  Pointless to 
build it from scratch.

Well, I guess I take that back.  If someone set up a Sourceforge 
project (no!  not another! :) to build a Python-based Windows 
installer which would let someone distribute software easily and
reliably to Windows without ever touching a Windows machine, I
guess there'd be a small point.  Pretty risky though, without that
testing thing...

-Peter


From garys at ihug.com.au  Sun Mar 31 19:05:34 2002
From: garys at ihug.com.au (Gary Stephenson)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:05:34 +1000
Subject: OT Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017504362.25937.python-list@python.org> <slrnaacavs.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a87uvb$dst$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <eppstein-1D385D.15274731032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <a888ho$o3d$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

> One obvious difficulty with this suggestion is that it requires even
> more careful class hierarchy design: if two classes A and B are both
> formed from constraining the same superclass, then the intersection of A
> and B should also be a class.

Indeed! Without wishing to overstate my own limited understanding of the
issues involved here, I believe that such a type system would need to be
entirely consistent from a set-theoretical pespective.  Which would imply (I
think) that all subclasses must in fact define mutually exclusive subsets of
their parent, and (obviously) that an object having any particular
most-specific-type (MST) implicitly precludes it from also conforming to any
heirs of that type.  This in turn raises the thorny spectre that in order to
define a subclass (subtype) one first needs full knowledge of all other
extant subtypes!

Of course, other difficulties also lurk.  Each object  needs to retain
knowledge of both it's declared type and it's current most-specific-type, so
that an object of current MST "square", but of declared type "Rectangle"
would allow itself to somehow be mutated back to a MST of "Rectangle"
(dubbed by Date and Darwen as "Generalisation by Constraint"), but if it's
declared type was "square" it would not be so allowed.   Etc, etc, ...

<snip>

> I haven't read those manifestos, though, so maybe they have some way of
> addressing this difficulty.  Anyway, this is getting a little far afield
> from bools and ints...

So?  This is the Python list - it's OK to go OT, isn't it?  Just so long as
it's interesting - at least to somebody!  ;-)

cheers,

gary




From shimmie at shimmie.com  Tue Mar 19 01:13:21 2002
From: shimmie at shimmie.com (Shimmie)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:13:21 GMT
Subject: Emacs EOF on sys.stdin.readline()
Message-ID: <5GAl8.10139$Hz2.38961@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

In Emacs, I'm always getting EOF back from a readline() call. My program's
along the lines of:

        while 1:
            line = sys.stdin.readline()

I run it using C-c C-c, however the readline() always returns EOF on
everycall. Same thing happens if I use cmd.Cmdloop. If I run the py-shell
though and type the code in, it works fine.

What have I got configured weird?

Emacs 21.1 on WinXP.

Shimmie.





From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Sat Mar  9 10:53:12 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:53:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <7xpu2ex6xz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1015698192.835972@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Paul Rubin (phr-n2002a at nightsong.com) wrote:
: The thing is, to really understand C++, you have to spend time working
: on multi-programmer projects.  If you only program by yourself, some
: parts of C++ will never make sense to you.

I don't see the complexity of C++ as deriving solely from the needs of
large software projects.  Suppose that performance was not an issue.  Then
Java is similarly suitable for large software projects.  Yet Java is *much*
simpler that C++.

I can't argue the point here, but the complexity of C++ derives ultimately
from the performance issue of object allocation/deallocation.  C++ allows
allocation on the stack, and it allows customized allocation on the heap.
The complexity price is high for this.

Indeed, the price is so high that I wish C++ would go away (even though the
Standard Template Library is slick).  So, Original Poster, I'd recommend
that you learn C for high-performance and for closeness to the machine.
Avoid C++.


Greg


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 27 16:07:45 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:07:45 -0600
Subject: Text to HTML algorithm.
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689EA@SRM201002>

> Gustavo Cordova <gcordova at hebmex.com> writes:
> 
> > Does anybody have an implementation, or know of one,
> > to format plain text into HTML?
> 
> Sure. If it does not contain markup,
> 
> print "<html><body><pre>%s</pre></body></html>" % plaintext
> 
> will fulfill this requirement.
> 

Er... that's not quite what I had in mind.

I wish to create printable documentation from SQL scripts.
The SQL parser is done, the structure annotator is done,
it's already creating basic documentation.

What's needed is a way to integrate all the special comments
(which have a "@" as the first non-space char in the text)
into the generated documents.

Using <pre>...</pre> would be quite easy, but then
the quality of the output is greatly decreased.

> > I need to preserve a minimum of structure, such as
> > wrapping <p>...</p> around paragraphs separated by
> > at least one empty line and detecting unnumbered
> > lists (at least).
> 
> If you think you need a pre-existing library, you may want to try
> HTMLGen. It knows much about HTML, but little about plain text.

I'm already generating HTML using a much simpler library,
just to balance tags and indentation.

> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 

Thanks.

-gustavo



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Thu Mar  7 12:45:49 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
In-Reply-To: <1015522595.442.24.camel@temp>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020307094549.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 07-Mar-2002 Ken Causey wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-03-07 at 11:33, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
>> > 
>> > I'm inclined at the moment to report this situation as a bug.  But I
>> > wanted to get some opinions as I'm neither an SGML expert nor fully
>> > confident of my understanding of the SGMLParser class.
>> > 
>> 
>> I agree this is a bug because the class name is SGMLParser yet it is
>> concerning
>> itself with html tags.
>> 
> 
> I'm not sure I understand this comment.  What tag do you mean?  All of
> these are standard SGML tags as I understand it.
> 

# This is some sort of declaration; in "HTML as
# deployed," this should only be the document type
# declaration ("<!DOCTYPE html...>").
k = self.parse_declaration(i)

sorry, at first reading I thought that comment meant it was complaining about
non DOCTYPE declarations.  Happily the code is better than that.  Disregard.

/me goes to find some tea and wake up.
 



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Mar  8 22:29:21 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:29:21 GMT
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <kuelivht8g.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <B8AEE297.4C02%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <mp0j8u4pikr07bahv6qrsojitdm06158v3@4ax.com>

>The irreducible fact is that Python needs extensive runtime type checks,
>Java doesn't.

I would wager that the larger cost on the execution of a Python
program is involved in the late binding semantics.

C//



From kirill_simonov at mail.ru  Wed Mar 27 08:19:23 2002
From: kirill_simonov at mail.ru (Kirill Simonov)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:19:23 +0200
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEGFOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325111055.044fbd08@202.95.131.154> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEGFOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020327131922.GA957@abulafia.local>

* Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net>:
> [Tripp Scott]
> > thanks for the tip. actually, the essence of what i wanted to
> > ask was: "can that SOMETHING be a list of more than one elements
> > which will be _flatly_ added to the result list."
> 
> No.  len([f(x) for x in y]) == len(y) whenever no exception occurs,
> regardless of the form of f() or type of y.


How about such f(x)?

def f(x):
    import sys
    sys._getframe(1).f_locals['_[1]'](-x)
    return x

def test(f, y):
    print 'len([f(x) for x in y]) = %s,' % len([f(x) for x in y]),
    print 'but len(y) = %s' % len(y)

test(f, range(10))


-- 
xi



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar  6 18:39:46 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:39:46 -0800
Subject: How do you print?
References: <659f82ff.0203041534.34ad2f91@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C86A8C2.88564A12@ccvcorp.com>


Peter Scott wrote:

> How can you print to a printer in Python? I know that you can do
> platform-dependant things like using lpr (on UN*Xlike systems) or
> "wordpad -p myfile" on windows, but that doesn't seem to be the Python
> Way.
>
> I just need to print--for now--plain text. Can anyone help me?

AFAIK, Python has no built-in cross-platform printer facilities.  Various
GUI toolkits do include printing frameworks, but if you're only needing to
print plain text, they're almost certainly overkill.  Your best bet is
probably to abstract your printing needs into a single module with a
consistent, well-defined interface, and then implement that module in the
most natural way for each platform that you need to be able to run on.
Not the most desirable solution, but probably the most practical.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From emile at fenx.com  Wed Mar 13 18:21:49 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:21:49 -0800
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <a6on8n$frj93$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> hi all,
>
> never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking advice
on how
> to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need
to find
> standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am
seeking
> advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i
am
> wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the task.

You might want to take a look at rpy at
http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy/

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 22:30:18 2002
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 19:30:18 -0800
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com>

Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<just-C502B6.08323716032002 at news1.xs4all.nl>...
> In article <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122 at stones>,
>  Graham Ashton <graz at mindless.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:49:09 +0000, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> > 
> > >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe Grossberg <josephgrossberg at hotmail.com> writes:
> > > 
> > >     Joe> Is there any effective difference between the two?
> > > 
> > > Nope.
> > 
> > I read somewhere (don't ask me where) that != is preferred.
> 
> But it's not generally accepted. I for one prefer <>, if only because I 
> learned Pascal before C...

Even for complex numbers, for which "less than or greater than" is meaningless?


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sun Mar 24 15:55:51 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:55:51 GMT
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl> <3C9E2D31.E45278BC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <opfs9ugbljbqfka6j94e4c9hvn48su2omk@4ax.com>

>I'm curious what the agent actually does if it doesn't share
>anything.

He already answered, suggesting a message architecture. In effect,
however, this means that at least one agent exists to listen for
the appropriate message. _That_ agent shouldn't be killed out of
turn, but then it's likely that he's not considering it.


C//



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar  6 19:29:56 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:29:56 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops 
Message-ID: <OF12B4076B.997ED621-ON88256B74.008024EF@i2.com>

Appreciation to David for writing the PEP -- doing so takes time, energy,
and commitment.

Here are some comments:

I think it would be good to add a sentence or two to the "issues" part of
the PEP that notes the discussion that took place in prior posts about the
limitation of the proposal in terms of needing to write a for-loop or list
comprehension *twice* in cases where one wants to be able to handle both
increasing and decreasing values in an interval.  I think this should be
noted as an issue or known limitation -- there are some words in the PEP
that position this more as a feature -- because it is *not* a limitation of
the current range and xrange functions.

I would appreciate a sentence or two in the "issues" section that notes
(explicitly) that shortcuts such as
    "for i < len(myseq)"
will not be supported.  I think this is relevant because I agree with Bjorn
Pettersen that not everyone will consider
    "for 0 <= index < len(myseq):"
to be a significant improvement over current methods for the common case of
processing the indices of a sequence.

I think the section that talks about loop semantics
    "one way of interpreting the existing Python
    for-loops:

        for item in list

    iterates over exactly those values of item that cause the
    expression

        item in list

    to be true."
should be removed or modified.  Python for-loops don't currently enforce
that stated property as this simple example shows:
>>>
>>> class spam:
...   def __init__(self):
...     self.items = [1,2,3]
...   def __iter__(self):
...     for item in self.items: yield item
...     raise StopIteration
...   def __contains__(self,x):
...     return 0
...
>>> spm = spam()
>>> 1 in spm
0
>>> for x in spm: print x
...
1
2
3
>>>
You could state the above as a property of various builtin Python objects,
perhaps.  But clearly, it is not an inherent property of (nor the defining
semantics for) for-loops.

I agree with other posters who stated concerns about the limitations of the
proposal given that the proposal is heavyweight -- in the sense of
requiring syntax changes -- where the limitations include as others have
noted:
  - arbitrary step values not supported (already noted in the PEP),
  - no first-class interval objects (already noted in the PEP).

The PEP is worded in such a way that the syntax change appears to be work
*only* for certain existing builtin Python object types: "int" and "long"
specifically.  Is this really the intention?  Will the syntax not work for
instances of a subclass of int (now possible in Python 2.2), for example?
Or other classes that support some reasonable protocol?  If so, I think
some words in the "issues" section are appropriate to highlight this
limitation.  I believe it is a pretty big limitation to have a major, new
syntactic construct that can *only* support instances of two classes (int
and long).

Or is it the intention that the construct is *not* limited strictly to the
Python builtin classes "int" and "long"?  Will it work for any class that
defines __lt__, __lg__, __gt__, __ge__, __add__, and __radd__ methods, for
example?  And if so, the specification part of the PEP should explain how
this would work.  For example, will __add__ be called with arg 1 or -1
(builtin integer objects)?  So must __add__ be able to accept 1 and -1 as
the arg to __add__ as part of the specification?  Or does there need to be
a "successor" method as was suggested in another post?

A lot of thought and work has been put into the syntax part of the
proposal.  I think some more thought and work might be required on the
semantics.

Jim




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 18:48:25 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:48:25 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015875160.15450.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8qgi9.2rj.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:31:16 -0800, James_Althoff at i2.com <James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote:
>
>One of your 3rd party components is a table.  It has a basic access
>protocol via methods like this:
>    def getRowCount(): pass
>    def getColumnCount(): pass
>    def getValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
>    def setValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
>
>[...]
>Perhaps you could give some ideas on approaches that would be more
>"Pythonic"?

How about:

def rowKeys(table):
   return xrange(0, table.getRowCount())

def someFunction():
   for r in rowKeys(someTable):
      #...iterate over all the rows in (someTable)

Note that this is less cumbersome than your chosen:

   for r in someTable.getRowCount():
      #...iterate...




-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Wed Mar 27 13:42:59 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:42:59 -0800
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
In-Reply-To: <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org> <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20020327184259.GA17039@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Gon?alo Rodrigues (op73418 at mail.telepac.pt):
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:04:50 -0800, Geoff Gerrietts
> <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:
> 
> >Quoting Courageous (jkraska at san.rr.com):
> >> 
> >> >I'd say the skills required to write clear, readable
> >> >software and clear, readable novels are not entirely
> >> >disjoint!
> >> 
> >> Oh certainly not, you just haven't backed up to a big
> >> enough perspective of the cognitive domain. :)
> >
> >I think poetry and code are actually very similar. Some day I may
> >write a paper on that thesis, but I'm still living the experience
> >today....
> 
> Poetry and coding are similar in that they are both creative activities
> needing inteligence, imagination, etc. But there is also a world of
> difference between the two. A simple way to see this is how they relate
> to their heritage, their common dead.

I think the startling similarity that I see is that code is in many
ways an extremely strict form of poetry. If you look to things like
the Perl poetry contests, and even the innumerable obfuscated code
contests, these are artistic in a way that forms a sort of continuum.

Writing code is a lot like writing a poem, with a vocabulary that is
extremely restricted and formal requirements that are invariably
rigid. The sense of meaning one derives from a program is generally
more pragmatic than what one gets from a poem. But both are
appreciated as much for what they say as for how they say it. 

One notable difference between programming and poetry is that a
programming cliche is acceptable, a rote that people are encouraged to
re-use, whereas dropping someone else's clever turn of phrase into
your poem is likely to backfire.

I'm still a long way from a thesis, but I think the similarities are
pretty astounding.

And I don't think I can comment extensively on the "common dead",
given that poets tend to take about 25 or 50 years to rise to
prominence, and the widespread practice of programming in 3rd gen
languages is still somewhat younger than that. I can comment on the
"common living", though -- Silicon Valley and the Bay Area are both
full of people who went to school for English and fell into writing
HTML, Perl, PHP. I can't comment extensively on the quality of the
code these writers-cum-programmers generate, but I'll bet their
comments are at least a bit more intelligible -- and I'll bet their
code is more readable.

I've been programming for a long time -- most of my life at this
point, and professionally for a bit more than 6 years. But my
education was in poetry; I was trained as a poet, and somewhat
successful at it, winning a few awards and being published in some out
of the way places.

I returned to programming when I realized that I was pretty good at
writing, but I couldn't bring myself to do it in my spare time -- I
was instead spending that spare time learning new programming
languages, or learning Linux system administration. I didn't enjoy
reading poetry all that much, but I could sit down and read a book on
OO design or advanced programming techniques without hesitation.

So I respect the differences; there are many, and I've chosen my road
because of them. But the principal values of poetry: no wasted words,
clear expression, clever expression, best use of language -- these
values translate directly into writing code.

Maybe that thesis isn't so many years off, after all....

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff @ gerrietts.net> "Many a man's reputation would not 
                                         know his character if they met on 
http://www.gerrietts.net/                the street." --Elbert Hubbard



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 19:05:55 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:05:55 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF69FF6CCA.A882C6D8-ON88256B73.000001D9@i2.com>

"Hernan M. Foffani" wrote:
>
> indici(x) will replace the odd xrange(len(x)) idiom and address the
problem
> of open intervals where the length of the set is not known in advance.

Just keep in mind that indici/indices/indexes-type proposals don't help in
cases where __len__ is not defined.  Two-dimensional structures, for
example.  Jython/Swing table models, for example.

And PEP 276 -- adding an __iter__ method to class int -- doesn't prevent
the above (nor any other for-loop-oriented enhancement) and can peacefully
coexist with it.

Jim




From offer at sgi.com  Mon Mar 25 16:28:41 2002
From: offer at sgi.com (Nhi Vanye)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:28:41 GMT
Subject: Porting a Python app to IRIX -- need help
References: <KDLm8.103638$uA5.85596@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <a7o4q9$lqvga$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

$ from dubois at users.sourceforge.net -#190139 | sed "1,$s/^/> /"
>
>
>I am trying to get a Python-based app running on an SGI running IRIX 6.5. I
>am running into a problem involving some objects being compiled "n32" and
>others "o32". The linker refuses to link them.
>
>I got pretty far by setting environment variable CC to "cc" but then it
>complained that the X11 library is o32. Can an SGI person tell me whether
>o32 or n32 is "normal" and what I tell the compiler to be sure I get that?
>

I've just finished packaging up a new drop of Python for SGI Freeware
(still 2.1.1).

Hopefully it should fix a number of problems in the last release (files
were directories).

In addition I've enabled the cd and al modules, and I now ship the Tools
(I needed the compiler for quixote) (although not installed, you'll have
to do something like cd /usr/freeware/lib/python2.1/Tools/compiler ;
python2 setup.py install; for any tools you want installed).

You can get an alpha version here..

	http://reality.sgiweb.org/offer/dist/fw_python2-20020325.tardist

If there's any problems with it, let me know we'll be freezing the next
freeware distribution at the end of the week.


richard.

-- 
Richard Offer                         Technical Lead, Trust Technology.
"Specialization is for insects"
__________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer/



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar 11 16:39:00 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:39:00 -0800
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015314249.8983.python-list@python.org> <625h8.3294$tg2.206482@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D23F3.B9ACF1A3@ccvcorp.com>


Robert Oschler wrote:

> Gerhard,
>
> Excellent!!!  Never expected to find a language that could do this and it
> something I've wanted very badly for a long time.  Yes that's exactly what I
> meant.  B knows about the A that owns it without having to artificially pass
> a reference of A to B during construction.

IMHO, this isn't a good idea.  Explicit is better than implicit, and if you need
to use a reference to the container object, then it's best to explicitly pass
that reference to the contained object on creation.  This also avoids the
limitation that someone else pointed out, that the solution that Gerhard H?ring
came up with only finds the *creator*, not the container, and then only if that
creator uses 'self'.  It also allows you to change the containing object, if
there's ever a reason to do that (like moving an object from a Pending
collection to a Completed collection).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From morus.walter at web.de  Fri Mar 29 03:00:45 2002
From: morus.walter at web.de (Morus Walter)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:00:45 +0100
Subject: re.split and lookaheads
References: <pan.2002.03.26.21.18.19.527560.1295@web.de> <c76ff6fc.0203270423.56488516@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.29.09.00.45.526457.1039@web.de>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:23:18 +0100, John Machin wrote:

> This is the case with *any* zero-width pattern (as at version 2.2) --
> see examples below. 

Thanks for your answer.
I understand now, what's going on.

> You should raise a documentation enhancement request.
> 

Though I understand that pythons behaviour can be considered reasonable in
the cases you list, I definitly prefer perls semantik, as using such RE makes
a lot of sense to me in the case of lookaheads or lookbehinds.
So a feature request might be more, what I want.
But I'm not sure, whether that would be welcome, since it might break
code.
Fortunately one can easily write one's own split function, to avoid the
problem.

>>>> re.sub(r"\b", "z", "abc def ghi")
> 'zabcz zdefz zghiz'
Hmm. 
So re.sub accepts zero width matches? Strange.

greetings
	Morus


From a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com  Sun Mar 24 14:09:45 2002
From: a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com (a.clarke11)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:09:45 +0000
Subject: advanced Python
References: <3C9E6058.8D3EFE6F@gol.ge>
Message-ID: <3C9E2479.1BF5BCD2@pop.ntlworld.com>

Hi
There is the "Advanced Python Programming" by David Beazely, extracts
available as pdf at Python City at
http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html

Hope this helps
Tony
...............

You said

Hello!

I wonder if someone prompts me a book dedicated to the advanced topics
of python?

Something tailored a-la "Advanced C++" by James O. Coplien...

Thanx in advance!

Best regards,
Giorgi


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 18:16:20 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:16:20 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list@python.org> <a87ljh$ofu$1@panix1.panix.com> <3CA75F2F.198772EB@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <8NMp8.184567$2q2.15567243@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3CA75F2F.198772EB at alcyone.com...
> Aahz wrote:
>
> > But what do you think of changing bool() to truth()?
>
> In the new type unification scheme, bool seems a much better name
than
> truth.

Yesterday, I gave four reasons for prefering 'truth' (or something
else) to bool.   Please consider them.  Already, my prediction in
point D is being borne out in some subsequent posts by some.
Something about the word 'bool(ean)' sets off something in some
people's brain that makes them want cripple a formalized Python truth
type by prohibiting currently valid and useful behavior.  I find this
as offensive both to the spirit of Python and my programming freedom
as the suggestion that sequence*int should be deprecated and then
prohibited because it violates some standard of 'proper' sequence
behavior.  Rather than have to put up with and have to argue against
such suggestions for the rest of my life, I would rather switch to a
different term that does not carry with it the baggage that 'bool' so
obviously does.

Terry J. Reedy






From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Mar 27 15:53:09 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:53:09 -0500
Subject: Text to HTML algorithm.
References: <mailman.1017254742.8781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gjqo8.26552$cB5.26548@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Gustavo Cordova" <gcordova at hebmex.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017254742.8781.python-list at python.org...
Howdy y'alls.

Does anybody have an implementation, or know of one,
to format plain text into HTML?

I need to preserve a minimum of structure, such as
wrapping <p>...</p> around paragraphs separated by
at least one empty line and detecting unnumbered
lists (at least).

The StructuredText module from Zope sounds like it will do exactly what you
want.

regards
 Steve






From roy at panix.com  Sat Mar  9 09:04:43 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:04:43 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <3C895594.60601@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <roy-0A7239.09044309032002@news1.panix.com>

Joshua Macy <l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>    Just out of curiosity, what does the rest of your group develop in 
> then?  FORTRAN?  COBOL? ("and none of this ANSI85 crap, either...it gets 
> old trying to hit a moving target!")

For internal tools, mostly perl.  For production code, mostly C/C++ and TCL.


From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sun Mar 24 13:16:10 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 20:16:10 +0200
Subject: PyQt installation problems on windows
References: <mailman.1016815717.22144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c9e25fa@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Amit Mongia <mongiaamit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have installed Python 2.2 , on my computer. I
> created a gui using Qt Designer and used pyuic to make
> a python file out of it. 
> Now i want to run that file using the python
> interpreter. Whenever i try doing that it gives an
> error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "WrapperInterface.py", line 10, in ?
>    from qt import *
>  File "F:\PYTHON22\lib\qt.py", line 44, in ?
>    import libqtc
> ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files
> needed to run this applic
> ation cannot be found.

Place the qt.dll from the non-commercial windows version
into <windows>/system32.

:M:


From michael.neuroth at freenet.de  Tue Mar  5 17:03:33 2002
From: michael.neuroth at freenet.de (Michael Neuroth)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:03:33 +0100
Subject: undefined symbols when linking Python into a shared library
Message-ID: <3C8540B5.E133D407@freenet.de>

Hello to all python experts,

I have a question about embedding Python in an application.
To be more precisely, I want to create a shared library which
holds the python interpreter and some other functions registered
at the Python interpreter (I used SWIG for that task). This
shared library (or DLL) will be loaded dynamically from an
application to support Python as script language.

This way works well for Windows and (for simple scripts which
do not load other modules) also for Linux.

Unfortunately I get an "undefined symbol" error when I try to
load other modules with the import statement on Linux.
When I try to laod Tkiter in a simple test script, I get this
error message on stderr from the embedded python interpreter:



  Traceback (most recent call last):

    File "<string>", lind 2, in ?

    File "/usr/lib/python2.1/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?

      import _tkiter # If this fails your Python my not be configured for Tk

  ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_tkiter.so: undefined symbol: _Py_NoneStruct





I link libpyhton.a into the shared library, I tried also to link
with the option -Xlinker -export-dynamic, as told by the python
documentation (section:Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter,
5.6 Linking Requirements). The shared library is a little bit lager,
but the resulting error is the same. How can I verify, that this
symbols are in the shared library?

I have no such "undefined symbol" problems, when I embed the python
interpreter into the application directly (with the option:
-Xlinker -export-dynamic).

What is the magic option to solve that (linker?) problem?
Has someone succeded to create a shared library with the pyhton
interpreter which successfully loads other modules?

Any help is welcome. Thank you in advance.


   Michael.


PS:
The appliation which I'm talking about is MinDia, an OpenSource
(multiplatform)
program for slide shows (with rollei diaprojectos), written in C++ and
with Qt.
The homepage and the sourcecode for MinDia can be found at sourceforge:

  http://mindia.sourceforge.net

(The error can be reproduced when loading and running the sample script
_tktest.py)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Michael Neuroth,

  e-mail: michael.neuroth at freenet.de

----------------------------------------------------------------------




From orl_ando74 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 23:04:32 2002
From: orl_ando74 at hotmail.com (Giganews)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:04:32 GMT
Subject: Win32 Impersonation
Message-ID: <kJRo8.462443$pN4.32187350@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

Hey all,

I'm a newbie with Python, and I have been looking for a way to run a script
as the administrator on Windows NT.  I have the user name and password, and
some code to do the impersonation, but when I try to use it, I receive a
sort of access denied message.  Upon reading the ActivePython docs, I found
that the user who runs the impersonation script needs SE_TCB_NAME,
SE_CHANGE_NOTIFY_NAME, and SE_ASSIGNPRIMARYTOKEN_NAME priveleges.

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but the only two accounts on these systems
with these priveleges are the administrator and the local system account.
Obviously, if I already were the administrator I wouldn't have this problem.
I think I'm missing something.

Anyway, here is the template of the code that I'm having problems with:

admin=win32security.LogonUser('administrator_account','domain','password')

win32security.ImpersonateLoggedOnUser(admin)


Has anyone gotten this to work on their systems, if so please help me!  Is
there another way?
Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Pablo Manzanera




From mnations at airmail.net  Fri Mar 29 12:18:06 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 09:18:06 -0800
Subject: Stopping a thread from an imported file
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203290918.21be5409@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am writing an application that has a front end Tkinter GUI and a
back end process. The back end process is being imported into the GUI,
which acts as the main thread in the program. When the 'GO' button is
clicked, the GUI starts a thread which calls a function that sends
control to the back end.

The problem is that when this function has ended, the thread does not
die. So when the button is clicked to start the application again, it
won't start because it thinks the thread is still active.

I have another thread within the GUI application that simply keeps
track of elapsed time. I don't have the same problem with this thread
which actually restarts every time the button is clicked. That, to me,
is even more confusing, since I know that thread is still running. And
since my experience with threads is limited, I'm simply going based on
what works and what doesn't to get this program working, and I can't
reason out what I've seen.

Which leads me to two questions:
1) When a function in an imported file completes, how does the thread
in the main file know to stop.
2) If you can't restart a thread while it is active (which is the
error I receive in the first thread) then how can the second thread
simply restart when it is called again.

Here's the relevant code:

class GuiPart:
        def __init__(self, master, endCommand, thread1, thread2):
            self.endCommand = endCommand
            self.thread1 = thread1
            self.thread2 = thread2

            self.master = master
	    self.mainFrame = Frame(master)

            self.mainWindow = Frame(self.mainFrame)

            self.mainFrame.pack()
            self.mainFrame.master.title("Running OCN cards")
            self.mainWindow.pack()      
            self.createWidgets()
            
	def validation(self):
	    self.startTime = time.time()
	    flag = 0
	    
	    flag = self.validateIP( self.ipaddr.get() )
	    validOcn = self.var.get()
	    if validOcn == '':
		    showerror(title='Invalid OCN',message='Please select an OCN
Type')
		    flag = 0
	    else:
		    flag = flag * 1
	    
	    if flag:
		    self.go_thread()    

	def go_thread(self):
		self.thread1.setDaemon(1)
		self.thread2.setDaemon(2)
		self.thread1.start()
		self.thread2.start()

<...snip...>
class ThreadedClient:
    def __init__(self, master):

        self.master = master
        self.ok = 1
        self.thread1 = Thread(target = self.ocnRun)
        self.thread2 = Thread(target = self.elapsedTime)
        self.gui = GuiPart(master, self.endApplication, self.thread1,
self.thread2)

        self.periodicCall()

    def periodicCall(self):
        if not self.ok:
	    #os._exit(0)
	    sys.exit(0)
	self.master.after(100, self.periodicCall)

    def ocnRun(self):
	    print "In ocnRun"
	    counter, total =  0, 0
	    for testgroup, titles, groupRow, groupCol in self.gui.testGroups:
			for module, row, col, status, color in testgroup:
				modFlag = getattr(self.gui.modVar, module).get()
				total = modFlag * pow( 2, counter ) + total
				counter = counter + 1

	    self.gui.slot = self.gui.list.curselection()
	    printAll( self.gui.ipaddr.get(), self.gui.var.get(),
self.gui.list.get(self.gui.slot), total, self.gui.port.get(),
		      self.gui.filename_field.get(), self.gui.password.get(),
self.gui.debug_field.get() , self.gui.debugVar.get(),
		      self.gui, self.gui.iterations.get() )

    def elapsedTime(self):
		curTime = time.time()
		eTime = curTime - self.gui.startTime

		hours = str( int(eTime / 3600) )
		mins = str( int(eTime / 60) )
		secs = str( int(eTime) )

		if atoi(hours) < 10:
			hours = '0' + hours
		if atoi(mins) < 10:
			mins = '0' + mins
		if atoi(secs) < 10:
			secs = '0' + secs
	
		elapsedTime = hours + ':' + mins + ':' + secs
		self.gui.elapsTime.insert(END, elapsedTime)
		self.gui.master.after(1000, self.elapsedTime)

    def endApplication(self):
        self.ok = 0

""" Begin Main Processing """
root=Tk()
client = ThreadedClient(root)
root.mainloop()



The first thread calls ocnRun which calls a function from an imported
file. Somehow I need to tell ocnRun that PrintAll has stopped. But I
assumed that would simply happen when PrintAll ran to completion.

Anyway, I think that's all the relevant information. I've read as much
stuff on threads from this newsgroup and other resources as I could
find, but still can't find the answer. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks ahead of time,
Marc


From nde at comp.leeds.ac.uk  Mon Mar  4 10:35:24 2002
From: nde at comp.leeds.ac.uk (N D Efford)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:35:24 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <mailman.1015178825.27707.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GsGGn4.L48@leeds.ac.uk>

Jason Orendorff <jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:
> I dislike Deitel & Deitel because of their casual disregard for
> correctness.  I can't open any of their books without finding an error.
> In C++HTP, they illustrate "Circle" as a subclass of "Point".

...and compound the error by making Cylinder a subclass of Circle!
This has been there for at least the past three editions.  Criticisms
of it in book reviews and other forums have not persuaded them to
correct the misconception.

Nick



From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Tue Mar  5 07:55:17 2002
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:55:17 GMT
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3C84C032.1070409@bath.ac.uk>

I figured it out and I'm kicking myself now. It was a case sensitivity 
problem - my regular expression wasn't picking up 
<TITLE>something</TITLE> tags.

Doh!



From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 13 10:54:46 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:54:46 -0600
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D68949@SRM201002>

> 
> Unfortunately development effort seems to be going to premature
> optimization -- an x86 JIT, regex opcodes, counting the cycles taken
> by the main loop -- instead of filling in the missing pieces, so I'm
> getting increasingly skeptical that Parrot will provide a useful
> substrate for anything.
> 
> --amk                                                         

Hmmm... but it's gonna be a hell of a fast substrate, though.

It's like "going nowhere fast" :-)

-gustavo



From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Sat Mar 16 08:59:04 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:59:04 +0900
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com> <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <OqBk8.300$ID.1955@news.hananet.net> <3C92E590.749C1557@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <s0Ik8.310$ID.1656@news.hananet.net>

Peter Hansen scribbled with his keyboard:

> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> I run a free software project that is trying to keep things compatible
>> with Windows and Linux. So that means I am in *deep trouble* because I
>> can't test windows directly. BUT! I do have a few guys who run windows
>> and do try stuff out very actively. Unfortunately, they can't code well
>> enough to do this themselves.
> 
> I guess this means they aren't techie enough to run one of the
> installers for you to package up your Windows distribution?
> That's a bummer. :(  Maybe you can find a volunteer to help
> you, who can do just packaging and not have to do any testing?
> 

It's not that we don't know how to figure stuff out, it's just that none of 
us have ever tried anything like this, and we are trying to get a start. 
Looking at the list (see below) of free installers, it sure does look very 
easy to use those tools.

>> >> For example, try looking at google with "free windows installers" and
>> >> follow the first link you find.
>> 
>> To... http://www.wxwindows.org/technote/install.htm ? =)
> 
> Yes.
>

You are right. I'll trust Google more in the future.

>> I did try looking on google, and it looks like I have a choice between:
>> 
>> a) Windows Installer
>> b) WISE
>> 
>> None of which seem to be free. I remember a long time ago that there was
>> a popular installer offering a free version for free software. Was I just
>> seeing things or was that so?
> 
> Why is that the only choice?  On that page it says those are commercial,
> then lists five _free_ ones (not sure about GPL status).  Are none of
> those listed appropriate?  (Why?)
> 

No, these are very appropriate. I apologize for not reading the page 
closely.

Jonathan




From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Sat Mar 23 08:15:40 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:15:40 +0100
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <mailman.1016820935.11105.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9C7FFC.26562E68@spam.nada.kth.se>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> Advantages of "Automatic" access to instance variables:
>    * Less typing.
>    * Somewhat more convenient to use objects (because you don't have to
>      type "self." in front of instance variable accesses. Mostly about
>      there being less typing.)

But this is not the same question as the one i discussed. The fact that
the variable "i" in a class in C++ hides a variable "i" in an outer
scope is just that; scope rules. It works the same way as when "i" in a
function hides a global variable "i". This is because of scope rules and
doesn't have anything directly to do with the explicit reference to
"self".

>    * Functions and Methods have a VERY simple relationship... methods
>      are just functions that take an instance as their first parameter.
>      This allows you to do things like "myObject.getFoo = myGetFooFunc",
>      to create a new method.

This is what I was wondering about. I think it looks interesting, and as
you say it couldn't reasonably be done unless "self" is explicit.


Bj?rn


From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Wed Mar 27 17:58:14 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:58:14 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions
References: <a7tgrl$ipu$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <a7tiq8$qip$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

A few quick additions;
> How does Python know this charset, because in my syte.py
encoding="iso-8859-15".
That must be site.py ofcourse, to set the default encoding.

[...]
> for enc in ['utf-16','utf-8','utf-7','iso-8859-15','cp1252']:
[...]
Adding the well-known iso-8859-1 (iso-latin-1) to the list
results in an exception: Latin-1 encoding error: ordinal not in range(256)
as expected, because I found out that the Euro symbol is not
in latin-1 but *is* in latin-9 (iso-8859-15).




From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Mar  7 08:49:15 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:49:15 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org> <6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> <just-6353F6.13105107032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <u3czc4l2t.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <just-4C6415.14491507032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <u3czc4l2t.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> 
wrote:

> Well, so long as your brother thinks the same, those of us in the
> "anti" camp don't have to worry, right?  At least, that's what I've
> been hoping.

That's what I've been hoping, too... I think we have little to worry 
about. Yet Bernhard Herzog's examples are very good to show the ugliness 
of the example.

Just


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Mar 21 04:10:34 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 11:10:34 +0200
Subject: Python & IRC
References: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <kuwuw62smt.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>,
"Felix" <nixdisciplenews at hotmail.com> writes:

| I'm not sure if you guys here might be able ot help me but i have
| been looking up and down for a irc client that alllows me ot script
| in python.

one is at <URL: http://www.s2.org/clirc/>.

   -- erno



From matkin at iar.se  Fri Mar 15 04:51:02 2002
From: matkin at iar.se (Mats Kindahl)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 10:51:02 +0100
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
References: <mailman.1016065525.9745.python-list@python.org>  <umbsdr8kmj.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se> <4f5k8.435$zT5.13755@news.itd.umich.edu> <um8z8u88nd.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>
Message-ID: <um7koe88hl.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>

Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> writes:

> Michael George Lerner <mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> writes:
> 
> > I wanted to match this:
> > 
> > (?P<foo>foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo)
> > 
> > without typing in all of the different combinations of 'foo' and spaces.
> > 
> > (Tim kindly pointed out the typos in the above, which I've corrected)
> > 
> > Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> wrote:
> > 
> > > Depending on the definition of easy, this is the alternative I would
> > > use. 
> > 
> > > 	r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
> > > 	
> > > Of course, your milage may wary.
> > 
> > Doesn't quite work for me:
> > 
> > >>> import re
> > >>> r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
> > >>> s = r.match('foo         ').groupdict()['foo']
> > >>> s
> > 'foo         '
> > >>> len(s)
> > 12
> > >>> 
> > 
> > and I only want to match things that are seven characters long here.
> 
> That's what I get for not reading the manual... :/
> 
> Of course it should be

Bad style to follow up to one self, but... 
 
     r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}$) *foo *$)')
                                     ^        ^
                                     !        !
            notice missing dollars --+--------+

-- 
Mats Kindahl, IAR Systems, Sweden

Any opinions expressed are my own, not my company's.


From spencer at efn.org  Sat Mar  2 16:27:06 2002
From: spencer at efn.org (Spencer Ernest Doidge)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:27:06 -0800
Subject: Windows GUI - which way?
In-Reply-To: <3C7EC855.5844B19F@engcorp.com>
References: <a5k8t9$hrp$1@news.efn.org> <3C7EC855.5844B19F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203021308260.14311-100000@garcia.efn.org>

Thank you for this reply.
I have another question that you sound unusually well-qualified to answer:

I want to maintain and use a library of Python scripts. I want to invoke
any script from this library by using a GUI app. The script itself would
have no GUI features. It would be sending and receiving serial port
messages. (This is like the script I am already running.)

Some frequently-used scripts would be invoked directly from a Tools menu,
others would be named in a File/Open dialog. I want to begin execution of
the script by using either a menu, a dialog, or a toolbar icon. When the
execution begins, I want to be able to abort the script at any time by
either a dialog button, a menu item, or a toolbar icon.

If I write the GUI app all in Python, is it a simple matter to, say, load
and run the script in its own thread, and have it be responsive to a
signal from the main thread telling it to abort?

Those are the must-have features.

For nice-to-haves, it would be nice to display some sort of output, even a
progress control (thermometer, or whatever one calls it), or some text in
an output window, the way it's done in Visual C++ when you build a
project.

Do you know of straightforward ways to accomplish the must-haves? 

What about the nice-to-haves?

Thanks very much in advance for taking the time to read and reply to
this post.


Spencer Doidge
www.spencerdoidge.com

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Spencer Doidge wrote:
> > 
> > I have a nice script running and doing useful work--in the Windows console
> > mode. [...]  I'd like to make this palatable for others around the company 
> > to use, and that means Windows GUI.
> > So should I write up a program in my favorite style, Win32 API, and embed
> > Python in it?
> > Or should I write the whole thing in Python?
> > 
> > Would somebody like to comment on the pros and cons?
> 
> Write the whole thing in Python (my preference would be with wxPython)
> and package it up with py2exe or equivalent.  Use a standard 
> installer to distribute it and no one in the company will ever
> know it was written with Python.  Except for the higher reliability.
> And your greater responsiveness in implementing feature requests
> quickly.  And how quickly you got it to them.  Etc. :-)
> 
> (We've written several utilities with wxPython and serial ports
> running under Windows.  So far the wxPython side of things
> is quite primitive since we're still learning, but even in 
> their current state they're quite acceptable, and have no
> real issues the way a more traditionally developed program
> (i.e. Windows GUI with C/C++ or whatever) would have.
> 
> -Peter
> 



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar 24 23:57:50 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:57:50 +1100
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A236@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> 
> I don't recall if print flushes its output after each call, but if you
> want to be certain it does, try calling sys.stdout.flush() after your
> print calls.  This is a console app, right?, and you aren't 
> redirecting
> the output to a file?

Make sure you run python as

    python -u

to get unbuffered output ...

Tim Delaney



From i-have at no.mail  Sun Mar 17 03:31:09 2002
From: i-have at no.mail (Jeffrey-man)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:31:09 +0300
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>
Message-ID: <a71k8k$o02$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>

Thank you very much!
Here it is the final version:

 -----

from time import sleep

sum = 0
sum_stop = 100
while sum < 100:
 num = input("Please enter the number: ")
 sum = sum+num
 if sum < 100:
  print "The sum is", sum
 else:
  print "The sum is > 100 and it is", sum
 print
sleep(10)

 -----

Best regards.




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 23:50:53 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:50:53 +0100
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
In-Reply-To: <20020314040837.GA403@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A207@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com> <20020314040837.GA403@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <20020314045052.GA550@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 14/03/02 ? 05:08, Gerhard H?ring ?crivit:
> Anybody wrote a subclassed list yet that is optimized for __contains__?

I just tried that by subclassing list in Python 2.2, but it turned out that I'd
need to override almost all methods in order to not introduce any bugs.

So I just built this minimal class which does exactly what I need here:

class FastList:
    def __init__(self, l = None):
        self.count = {}
        self.l = []
        if l is not None:
            for item in l:
                self.append(item)

    def append(self, item):
        self.count[item] = self.count.get(item, 0) + 1
        self.l.append(item)

    def __contains__(self, item):
        return self.count.has_key(item)

    def __getitem__(self, pos):
        return self.l[pos]

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 7.4 ?C      Wind: 1.1 m/s



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sat Mar 23 02:52:16 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:52:16 -0800
Subject: Core Python Programming, chapter 5 exercises number 5-3, question on this exercise
References: <8dbo9u8jv0j9p58h4dvhqojk2154m8vict@4ax.com> <n1co9u8si04dt5mjfg7b3sprbfhkjhj9ev@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a7gg3h.3vs706t.1@kserver.org>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:37:56 GMT, John Warney <john at yahoo.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <n1co9u8si04dt5mjfg7b3sprbfhkjhj9ev at 4ax.com>:

> 
> PS---why is it that every mailing list or newgsroup posting i always
> ask, i always answer my own dumbass question 5-10 mins after i
> post/ask it??, lol

I believe that is a corollary to Murphy's Law.

On the other hand, it's incredibly useful for debugging your scripts. Just
think about it: Do you want to find the bug in your script so badly that
you're willing to endure public humiliation? Maybe it's a fair trade? ;)

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From emile at fenx.com  Wed Mar 27 21:13:48 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:13:48 -0800
Subject: mutliple search and replace
References: <Kwpo8.18614$EE4.60649@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <a7tuks$o582t$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Trung Hoang
> Suppose i have a map (or two lists). is it possible to make a sweep
through
> a string to find all occurances of key's in the map then replace them
all in
> one sweep?
>

>>> d = {'one':'een','two':'twee','three':'drie','four':'vier'}
>>> s = "one two buckle my shoe three four je t'adore"
>>> ' '.join([d.get(w,w) for w in s.split()])
"een twee buckle my shoe drie vier je t'adore"


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From aahzpy at panix.com  Sat Mar 23 02:27:36 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 02:27:36 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem simplified
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65@hotmail.com> <a7gdiv$1oc$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9C0B45.E3C51B0C@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7hap8$55f$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3C9C0B45.E3C51B0C at hotmail.com>,
Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65 at hotmail.com>,
>> Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm using Windows NT, Python 1.5.2, and IDLE 0.5
>> 
>> Try switching to Python 2.1.2 or 2.2; I'm sure that reload() has had
>> some changeds.
>
>OK, I've just tried Python 2.2 and IDLE 0.8.  Same problem.
>
>This really seems quite mysterious?  I'm surprised that others haven't
>run into this.  I'm sure I'm not the first person to use reload, or the
>first to inherit from a class into different files.

Not many people do use reload(), in my experience.  I'm pretty
knowledgeable about Python, I think, and I've been pretty regular on
comp.lang.python for almost three years.  It's not interesting enough to
me personally to invest much of my time, I'm afraid.  ;-)  I still
haven't seen any clear explanation from you for why you need to use
reload() in the first place.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From jriveramerla at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 01:01:45 2002
From: jriveramerla at yahoo.com (Jose Rivera)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 22:01:45 -0800
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com>

Thanks for your comments... the site uses POST method, so 
I saved to disk the page, and modify it to use GET so 
I could get an idea of the parameters used...
The URL calculated :

http://avisos.elnorte.com/casa_venta_result.asp?fotos=0&Order=order+by+colonia&Precio_i=-1&Presentacion=Tabla&Precio_f=-1&PLANTAS=0&pagina=1&id_inmueble=3&dia=&RECAMARAS=0&constr_f=-1&COLONIA=0&BANOS=0&Tipo=CASAS&Constr_i=-1&Terreno_i=-1&Terreno_f=-1&zona=0

works on my PC, try it, and let's see whats wrong.

thanks for your time, and comments.

Does anyone have an idea of how I can save it to a DataBase? Is there
a better way?

Thanks ...


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  7 12:32:41 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:41 -0800
Subject: Threading help?
In-Reply-To: <3C86E461.BE9BFDAA@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
	<3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>
	<20020306132612.4a5d756a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
	<mailman.1015453332.10152.python-list@python.org>
	<3C86BD6F.9D258DA7@engcorp.com>
	<mailman.1015465692.10788.python-list@python.org>
	<3C86E461.BE9BFDAA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020307093241.48ddfca0.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:54:09 -0500
Peter Hansen wrote:

> Cliff Wells wrote:
> > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > > Cliff Wells wrote:
> > > > Hm.  Okay, I had to reconsider this.  Clearly if the processing is
slower
> > > > than .1s and data is being added to it every .1s, the Queue is
going to
> > > > endlessly grow as more data is added to it.  If this is the case,
it might 
> > > > make sense to have more than one consumer thread (B) doing the
processing.
> > >
> > > I might be missing something, but I don't see how adding another
thread
> > > (with a slight extra overhead associated with it) would actually
increase
> > > performance for what I infer is CPU-bound processing in thread B.
> > 
> > Yes, I thought of this, but I believe that this would give the net
effect
> > of increasing thread priority for the B threads (since they will get
more
> > CPU time as a whole vs threads A and C).
> 
> Ah, interesting.  I hadn't thought before of how the Python interpreter's
> technique of executing a set number of instructions before switching
context
> would let you do something tricky like that.  Neat.
> 
> In any case, when you said "have thread A retrieve the data every .1s"
> I figured this was a soft realtime situation, and stealing CPU from
thread
> A would not necessarily be what you need.  If between A and B you are
taking
> up all the time, you need to optimize the code, or do what you suggested
> below and drop data (or increase the sampling period):

On my way home last night (immediately after posting this, of course), I
realized that this is no good anyway as thread A will be
sleeping/retrieving and thread C will be blocking, waiting for data on the
queue, so having multiple thread B's wouldn't help much.  This is a
difficult problem in Python (assuming the processing time for B is longer
than the time constraints given).  Simply put, it can't be done in a
straightforward fashion.  Basically it comes down to this: data is required
every .1s, but the processing on that data takes >.1s.  I don't believe SMP
comes into play much when using Python (even with threads), so the only
approach that would work would be a distributed model (although this could
be done on a single SMP PC by setting the affinity of the interpreters) or
by dropping data.

> > But maybe a better approach would be this: if processing time is
greater
> > than .1s and we don't care about out-of-date data (big assumption, but
not
> > unreasonable), then use the Queue between A and B and simply have B
empty
> > the Queue on every iteration, processing only the newest data.  This
would
> > keep the Queue to a reasonable size at the cost of dropping data.
> 
> I suppose the acceptability of that depends on your requirements...
> dropping data is never a very general approach. :-)

Not general, but acceptable in cases where single blocks of data are less
important than the flow of data (i.e. streaming video).  This case sounds
like it might fall into that category (I'm guessing it's simply updating a
web page with snapshots of data), so dropping data would be an option.  Of
course, all this speculation only applies if thread B's processing time is
>.1s and that the process is long-running enough that building a large
queue would be an issue.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Mar 16 10:31:58 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:31:58 +1100
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1016232751.9857.python-list@python.org> <3C931C23.B0B2BF75@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C93656E.7B02F53C@optushome.com.au>

Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> 
> Tim Churches wrote:
> 
> > Note that stats.py also returns the 2-tailed p-value as well (which can
> > also easily be obtained from R via RPy).
> >
> > Tim C
> 
> As a side note (but not related to the above problem): there exists also
> some peculiarities with the R-language:

"Particularities" might be a better word to avoid the perjorative sense
of "pecularity".

> 
> For example:
> 
> > data <- c(0.23,1.0023,1.223,1.235,5.6,9.0,23.3456,34.458,34.56,78.9)
> 
> > summary(data)
> 
> delivers:
> 
>    Min. 1st Qu.  Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
>   0.230   1.226   7.300  18.960  31.680  78.900
> 
> Everything is correct, except the 1st quantile and 3rd quantile.

You mean 1st quartile and 3rd quartile, not quantile. And the values
calculated by R are not wrong, just different (see below).

> 
> First, I could not believe it and fired up XLispStat:
> 
> (setf data (make-array 10 :initial-contents  '(0.23 1.0023 1.223 1.235
> 5.6 9.0 23.3456
> 34.458 34.56 78.9)))
> 
> (quantile data 0.25) and (quantile data 0.75) respectively:
> 
> delivers: 1.229 and 28.9018
> 
> The R-language calculates not only on Windows the values wrong; even on
> Unix: the values are the same as on Windows.

The results given by R are indeed the same on both platforms, but they
not wrong.

> 
> Maybe they use some other method for calculating the quantiles.

There are a number of methods for calculating quantiles. In R, the
summary() function calls the quantile() function to calculate the 1st
and 3rd quartiles and the median. The quantile() function uses linear
interpolation to calculate the sample quantile for the probabilities of
0.25 and 0.75, whereas XLispStat is just taking the arithmetic mean of
the 2nd and 3rd, and 6th and 7th values respectively (using zero-based
indexing/counting, since this is the Python list).

The methods used by R are fully described in the R manual (see
help(quantile)), but a commonsense explanation of the R approach is as
follows (again using zero-based indexing/counting). If the number of
elements is even, the median (50th percentile) is the average of the 4th
and 5th (ordered) values, which can be thought of the the "4.5th value"
i.e. half way between the 4th value and the 5th value. Note that (9 - 0)
* 0.50 = 4.5. By extension, the 25th percentile (1st quartile) should be
the "2.25th value" i.e. one quarter of the way between the 2nd value and
the 3rd value (noting that (9 - 0) * 0.25 = 2.25), and the 75th
percentile (3rd quartile) should be the "6.75th value" i.e.
three-quarters of the way between the 6th and 7th values (noting that (9
- 0) * 0.75 = 6.75), which is what R returns. If you think about your
sequence of numbers as an empirical distribution function, then the
appraoch used by R makes better sense, IMHO.

> 
> Personally: I can not cope with the R-language. It is rich of many
> build-in functions; but most of the time I am not successful in finding
> what I am searching for.

The R documentation is very extensive - if printed, I think the manual
for the base package runs to over 800 pages, and there are scores of
extension libraries each with their own documentation on top of that.
Finding the right function can require persistence - R certainly does
not take a minimalist approach to built-in functions like Python does -
but the online help/manual pages are searchable at the word level, so it
is unlikely that you will fail to find something if it exists.

> 
> The graphics are good; but I would always prefer Dislin as long as I do
> not need any specialized graphics from the field of statistics.

The main problem with Dislin is that it is not open source, nor is it
free on Unix or Mac OS/X platforms. R is distributed under the GPL.

> 
> In R one can even read in binary files (you can even swap the binary
> order). But plotting a large array is a pain in the neck. In Dislin it
> is very fast and one can overlay maps (e.g. coastlines) without any
> problems (you get even the x- and y-axis annotation right:
> -180E....+180W,...).

There is a maps library available for R but geographical mapping is not
its forte. 

Tim C



From cja at dds.nl  Tue Mar 26 11:34:01 2002
From: cja at dds.nl (Christopher Abraham)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:34:01 -0500
Subject: Python Books Galore
References: <a37970$irg$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <cja-2603021134010001@192.168.1.42>

Raymond:

It most certainly is a very fine sign.  I am also interested, now that
there are so many and not so few, in finding a great trinity of Python
Books for use at work.  One for introductory study, one for advanced
technique, and one as a reference book.  Of course, this could be as many
as five-seven books, but three is a pretty appropriate number this week of
any.

Cheers,

Chris

In article <a37970$irg$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>, "Raymond Hettinger"
<othello at javanet.com> wrote:

[snip]
> I went back yesterday and found a full row (3 1/2 to 4 feet) filled with
> Python books. 
[snip]
> This has got to be a good sign.


From timr at probo.com  Sun Mar  3 19:06:42 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:06:42 -0800
Subject: ADO GetRows() example for newbies
References: <f20ea932.0203010652.1045b7ff@posting.google.com> <2030665d.0203010927.38edc51@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gge58u8g0l7ljilr6d2m4jqu2thsjpknnb@4ax.com>

sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett) wrote:

>How could you do pages of records (in ASP for example), you may only
>want a few records at a time (if you have 1000 records for example)?
>For example I may want a page with 10 records per page, with the page
>numbers at the bottom.
>For 100 records:
>10 pages (10 links)
>Start at 1 on page 1, 11 on page 2 etc)

Unfortunately, this varies from SQL provider to SQL provider.  In Postgres,
for example, I can say:

   SELECT * FROM users ORDER BY lastname OFFSET 20 LIMIT 10;

That fetches me records number 21 through 30.  By changing the OFFSET
value, I change which subset I get.

SQLServer uses a different syntax.  I believe "TOP" is the SQLServer
equivalent of LIMIT, but I don't know how to do "OFFSET".

Another alternative is to use a cursor, but again the implementation vaires
by backend.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 01:19:25 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: what does this do? (really basic question)
In-Reply-To: <slrna7u3n3.tqi.landshark@burrito.verticaladdiction.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020228221925.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 01-Mar-2002 Dave Marotti wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> Hopefully this is a really basic question.  I'm still in the learning phase,
> and came across this in a sample program:
> 
> class Whatever:
>     def __init__(self, user_list, cmd_list, **kw):
>         code....
> 
> What does the **kw mean (specifically, the **) ?
> 

the kw is a nmemonic for 'keyword'.

>>> def foo(**kw):
...   print kw
... 
>>> foo(a=3, b=6, c='Sean')
{'b': 6, 'c': 'Sean', 'a': 3}
>>> foo(c='David', a=42, b=25)
{'b': 25, 'c': 'David', 'a': 42}

the ** syntax means 'take every argument that was not matches elsewhere and
store it in a dictionary.  The key will be the variable name and the value will
be its value'.

So self, use_list, and cmd_list will get their values and then kw gets the rest.

>>> def bar(name, **kw):
...   print name
...   print kw
... 
>>> bar('Sean', a=1,b=2,c=3)
Sean
{'b': 2, 'c': 3, 'a': 1}
>>> def wuz(name, age):
...   print name
...   print age
... 
>>> wuz(age=25, name='Lesley')
Lesley
25

Note the key=value syntax works even without the **kw magic.

The advantage of using the key=value syntax is that it makes functions with
several arguments easier to call without reading the docs.  This is often handy
for things like GUI toolkits and network code:

win = MakeWindow(title="My Window", width=100, height=200, x=34, y=67)

or

socket = Network.Connect(url="http://www.python.org", keepalive=1, port=80)






From l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com  Sat Mar  9 13:09:51 2002
From: l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:09:51 GMT
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <3C895594.60601@sneakemail.com> <roy-0A7239.09044309032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C8A161D.50601@sneakemail.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> Joshua Macy <l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> 
>>   Just out of curiosity, what does the rest of your group develop in 
>>then?  FORTRAN?  COBOL? ("and none of this ANSI85 crap, either...it gets 
>>old trying to hit a moving target!")
>>
> 
> For internal tools, mostly perl.  For production code, mostly C/C++ and TCL.
> 

   Perl's latest stable release is 5.6.1  My linux box has 5.005 
installed standard, and I'm told that there are sites out there that are 
still chugging away on Perl 4.  Meanwhile the latest development version 
of Perl is 5.7.3 and Perl 6 is in the works.  If your fellow developers 
think that makes Perl stable compared to Python's rate of change, I 
think they're fooling themselves.


   Joshua



From herrn at gmx.net  Tue Mar  5 17:18:36 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:18:36 +0100
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
Message-ID: <20020305221836.GA3612@lurkabove.darkstar>

Hello,

I am new to python and have a question how to achieve $subject.

I want something like the 'this' statement in java that gives you the
current object. So when I call a method like f(this) I give the object
that calls the method as argument.
But how can I do this in python?
I am using python 2.1.

Bye
Marco
-- 
This life is a test.  It is only a test.  Had this been an actual life, you
would have received further instructions as to what to do and where to go.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu  Thu Mar  7 13:55:36 2002
From: quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 18:55:36 GMT
Subject: overloading a function
References: <mailman.1015508173.9534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8fdt8.5o6.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:36:46 +1100, Dave Harrison <dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au>
wrote:
>Hi there all,
>
>If I have a function, but I want to be able to call it two different ways -
the ways being differentiated by the paramaters I pass the function) how do I
do this ??
>
>At the moment I have 
>
>def Foo(num)
>
>def Foo(num,dflt)
>
>however I am only getting the first of the two, and the second function is
ignored.

I think you mean you're only getting the second.  The first is not ignored, but
replaced, in the same way that 5 is when you type:

x = 5
x = 10

>I couldn't find anything in the documentation, any ideas ?

In the case above:

def foo(num, dflt=None):
    if dflt is None:
        ...
    ...

In general:

class A:
    def foo(self, bar):
        ...
class B:
    def foo(self, bar):
        ...

import random
x = random.choice((A(), B())
x.foo(42)


The 'foo' called depends on the type of 'x'.  You can't do this for anything
other than the first argument though, since python is mono-dispatch.  If
you really wanted you could hack together a multi-dispatch situation:

class Generic:
    def __init__(self):
        self.tab = {}
    def __call__(self, *args):
        # call before-methods?
        v = self.lookup(args)(*args)
        # and after-methods
        return v
    def lookup(self, args):
        ts = map(type, args)
        ... lookup ts in self.tab using whatever ordering rules you want
    def add_method(self, f, types)
        self.tab[types] = f

def f_ints(x, y):
    return x + y
def f_int_string(x, y):
    return '%d %s%s' %(x, y, x != 1 and 's' or '')
f = Generic()
f.add_method(f_ints, (int, int))
f.add_method(f_int_str, (int, str))


It's not very pythonic though.


From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Mon Mar  4 10:22:28 2002
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Scherer, Bill)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:22:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Rotor in Jython?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203040744460.29083-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203041019020.2861-100000@bagend>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 brueckd at tbye.com wrote:

> Thanks for the interesting discussion. This thread is getting tired so
> I'll let it die now. ;-)

Yes, it was, but before the thread dies, did anybody have a 
chance to look at my code? (I know a few did, access_log says 
so...) Can anybody say why my code can decrypt messages it 
encrypts but not messages encrypted by stdlib rotor?

Thanks!


-- 
Bill.Scherer at Verizon Wireless
RHCE 807101044903581




From pekko at iki.fi  Fri Mar 22 08:55:55 2002
From: pekko at iki.fi (Pekko Piirola)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 13:55:55 GMT
Subject: GNU plotutils and Python?
Message-ID: <slrna9mdvb.ar7.pekko@soul.helsinki.fi>

I tried to find the manual of the libplot module (Python bindings for
Gnu plotutils package) but failed.  Does it exists?  Where?

-- 
Pekko Piirola


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar 11 23:04:04 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:04:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com> <gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com> <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com> <3C8BBFD4.A29A69F1@engcorp.com>  <4abd9ce7.0203102128.67c7fa0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8qvhk.343.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <4abd9ce7.0203102128.67c7fa0d at posting.google.com>, damien
morton wrote:
[...]
> The existing mass of python code would be unchanged.

What evidence do you base this on?

> The only issue that might occur is that something that is now an
> error, would not be.

Assuming that this statement were true, how does it follow that 'the
existing mass of python code would be unchanged'? As I am sure you are
well aware, exception handling is an important part of the control
flow in any Python program. If something that previously raised an
exception no longer does, any program relying on that behaviour would
be broken.

Just to take a quick example -- checking whether a given string is a
lowercase character:

>>> from string import lowercase
>>> def islowercaseletter(object):
...     try: return string in letters
...     except: return 0
...
>>> islowercaseletter('x')
1
>>> islowercaseletter('X')
1
>>> islowercaseletter(2)
0
>>> islowercaseletter('foobar')
0

If your suggestion was accepted, the latter would suddenly return true.

And this is assuming that your statement is true -- which I really
think it isn't. It would not be a simple matter of making this check
illegal. You would have to sort out all kinds of things wrt. strings'
relationship to sequences and how strings are iterable. Since the
suggestion is full of inconsistencies, these would have to be patched
up somehow. For instance, assuming that you still want to be able to
iterate over the characters over a string (or, for that matter, still
want to be able to use indexing or slicing on them), you would
suddenly end up with the following oddity (among *many* others):

>>> 'foo' in 'foobar'
1
>>> 'f' in 'foobar'
1
>>> 'foo' in iter('foobar')
0
>>> 'f' in iter('foobar')
1

Strings would then be the only (built-in or standard lib) iterable
with this behaviour.

> It remains to be seen whether or not the mass of python programmers
> are opposed.

I think this is as good as certain.

> No-one has taken me up on my question about what circumstances one
> would want "'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'" to throw an exception,
> rather than return a result.

Well, I've given you one example. But that is really besides the
point. The point (as I see it, anyway) is that your suggestion either
makes Python thoroughly inconsistent, or necessitates a very large
change in the language core, removing the parts of strings that are
polymorphically equivalent to sequences and other iterables. I think
we'd end up with some very puny strings.

What *is* strange is that the string method index() is not
polymorphically equivalent to the list method index(). If one were to
model the behaviour of the membership operator on that, one would end
up with your suggested behaviour:

>>> ['a', 'b', 'c'].index(['b', 'c'])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
>>> 'abc'.index('bc')
1

I must say I'm baffled by the fact that str.index accepts something
other than a single character as its argument, but that's the way it
is.

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From nessun at email.it  Wed Mar 20 12:04:39 2002
From: nessun at email.it (Timothy Redaelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:04:39 GMT
Subject: Linker
Message-ID: <Hi3m8.7664$pT1.187171@news1.tin.it>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Does exist a liner for Python (to make .exe)???

Thanx

- --
Timothy Redaelli

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>

iQA/AwUBPJjBJBTIuDkXWv7oEQJlKQCdHcBysGNwHu7y3UsdWKE0w0LBTooAoNp8
Go+Ot0yVJiI1NIknudsuST71
=a8hl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 17:02:15 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:02:15 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF9365C52D.98C24F8A-ON88256B72.0078AC5B@i2.com>

[Another poster]
> Numbers don't perform operations

[James Altfhoff]
> they can <wink>
> >>> -3 .__abs__()
> -3
> >>>

True.  But your (aka *my*) point would probably be better made with

>>> (-3).__abs__()
3

or

>>> 3 .__abs__()
3

(Precedence wasn't the issue <wink>.)

Jim




From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Mar 24 01:27:40 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:27:40 -0300
Subject: C++ Embedding Problem - Import Error
In-Reply-To: <3C9C4D48.7010000@SPAMnwinternet.com>
References: <3C9C4D48.7010000@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20020324032740.B14400@ibook.distro.conectiva>

[...]
> Just to be clear, I'm linking libpython into another .so
> lib that's dlopened by an app. There is no possibility of
> linking Python directly with the app (or I wouldn't be
> writing a plugin in the first place).

You must open your plugin with RTLD_GLOBAL, otherwise the
symbols inherited from libpython.a won't be available for the
dynamic loaded modules.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 27 16:34:02 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 21:34:02 GMT
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017246404.16806.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7tdsa$p5g$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:24:02 +0100, Laura Creighton <lac at strakt.com> wrote:

>It wasn't the Robot books where I was thiking of looking, but a different
>short story.  I actually believe that apologies are something which
>are necessary due to one's-own need to behave rightly, rather than
>somebody else's need to receive redress.  A society with both

ISTM apologies are part of a very stateful communication protocol
of humans, trying to manage state transitions at both ends.

Both ends, depending on sophistication, include cached recursive models
of the state at the other end, leading to complex calculations for maintaining
the cache and generating communication signals, e.g., "She may be thinking that
I think xxx and if I format my apology message with content yyy and my assumption
about her thinking is wrong, it may lead down a bad part of the trellis of possible
futures, so I will say zzz hoping to prevent a disconnect at least, also
hoping that she does not infer too much calculation on my part and transition
to impersonal mode, setting filters to deny warm fuzzy metasignals, requiring
total renegotiation of that subchannel's connection, but also trying to prevent
a transition in presumed respect relationship by not formatting an overly obsequious
apology, and to hell with it: msg= "Let's cut the BS, do you want this relationship or don't you?"
"Is that a threat or a question or a pecking order position assertion or
all of the above?" (meta)"Sorry, ..." negotiate, negotiate, negotiate...

You can imagine a politician's "need to behave rightly" and a true spiritual
seeker's "need to behave rightly," interacting over some occasion for apologies.
Imagine the states and cached other-site-model states. The first problem is
to find a layer in the communication stacks that halfway matches ;-)
Now imagine a true spiritual seeker in the role of politician. Very complex
state management ;-)

IOW, I think the "need to behave rightly" is as complex as humans, and based
in large part on the need to maintain communications for cooperation in survival.
And apologies are part of the communication protocol.

By apologizing, you do not just satisfy your own need to act consistently
with your concept of yourself (whether saint, good girl, or smooth con),
unless you are living in a world where others are just incidental props that
you don't relate to beyond their cliche proxy representations in your imagination.

The "need for redress" in the other, if present (other than material
damage/reparation issues), is ISTM a need be able to permit themselves
to continue communicating in a valued interchange. IOW, the other may
have protocol rules that do not permit needed communication, and the
"need for redress" is a need to satisfy that protocol, so that the other
may permit him/herself continued communication. "I won't talk to you
until you apologize properly." And other than saints, people have a
hard time moving from that state without satisfying a redress protocol.

Fortunately, the bots of the P

>Asimov-type robots and small children needs to do something
>about the small child's propensity to order the robot to go jump
>out the space station airlock.  When Mom says 'decent children don't
>order robots to do foolish things' she can't make an appeal to the
>robot's feelings, but to other things such as the anti-socialness
>of waste.  Once such considerations come into play, the social value
>of apologising needs examination -- and certainly, in a society which
>is not based on enslavement, there is no room for somebody who is
>'too big to apologise'.  People who regularily avoid apologising when 
>they know perfectly well that they are in the wrong need to do so far
>more for themselves than for other people.  That is trying to opt in and
>out of society whenever it suits you.
>
They first need to reach a state where they have a non-sociopathic
motivation for an apology. ISTM that is what you are pointing to.
Some people's abuse of human protocol is itself a signal in another
(distasteful and destructive) human communication protocol. I.e,
the meta-message is, "I do this to assert that I am powerful enough
to provoke without expectation of challenge, and I expect to accomplish
my goals through exercise of commanding power." Of course, the meta-meta
message is a pitiable despair of working in real human relationships.

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean you may not some time have to kowtow
to someone pitiable ;-/

>Now I remember reading this and thinking this was pretty powerful stuff
>when I was 14 or so.  And nun-dominated boarding school, where I escaped
>classes that I was not interested in taking by illegally clibing trees,
>reading books where I could not be found since 'tree-climbing' was so
>much more forbidden than cutting physical educaiton classes that nobody
>thought to look for me in the trees.  I'd sit in the top and watch them
>seek and call for me at ground level.
>
Ah, memories ;-)
>Since thoughts that 'leopards kill their prey by dropping on them out
>of trees' featured hightly in my thoughts at such a time, the discovery
>that I might be damaging myself by opting out of society hit rather hard.
>And I believed that it was Asimov who mentioned that -- until today.  It
>doesn't sound like him.  It sounds more like Heinlein, but the Heinlein
>fans have posted every satement he has ever written to the net, so if
>I can't find it there, it is almost certainly not from Heinlein.  (He
>does state this:
>
>  In a family argument, if it turns out you are right - apologize at once!
>
But patronize and you will be disconnected at an important level.
Of course, if you feel motivated to patronize, you are already there ;-/

>But it is doubtful that this quote would have had such an effect on me,
>my status as 'woefully misunderstood intellectual' was running at an
>all time high then.  But figuring out if I wanted to reject all of society
>or only my status as child within it was a nice problem.  And, arrogant
>worm that I was, I took great comfort in the fact that all the people whom
>I felt owed me apologies, (and there was quite a list) were secretly
>damaging themselves in nasty permanent ways.  It was only much later
>that I was able to connect their ability to treat me and the other children
>so cruelly with the sort of damaging they were doing by not apologising.
>
Again, I think it's a protocol-abuse meta-protocol based on power when direct.
Indirectly, a cruel disconnect can happen when adults see children as aforementioned
"incidental props" and simply don't recognize the possibility of dialogue with and
caring respect for a being at another stage of development.

>However, all of this would only have been funny if the quote about half
>of the apologising being for yoruself was from Asimov.  In usenet fashion
>I will find the answer to who wrote this about 20 minutes after I post this.

And also figure out how it relates to list comprehension ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 19:55:04 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:55:04 -0500
Subject: Python/Linux
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886hv$st6$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <U5Op8.61601$Q7.48626359@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Forgot to ask, is Zope's database server actually MySQL under the hood?  If
not, does it compare well as far as functionality and stability are
concerned?  BTW, do you use Zope or Quixote?  Hope you don't mind all these
question.

thx

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:a886hv$st6$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>,

> If you're using Python, go with either Zope or Quixote.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?





From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 30 01:23:07 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 22:23:07 -0800
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com> <b03e80d.0203290635.59a7a47d@posting.google.com> <67abb823.0203291213.3870b623@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203292223.5db9fb20@posting.google.com>

(Sloth) wrote in message 
> Again, thanks for all of the thoughtful replies.  I've tried each of
> them, and I still get the same result:
> 1) The server starts and will serve HTTP.
> 2) Upon submitting a GET request, the Windows ME OS "beeps" once
> 3) The page hangs without returning the result.
> 4) The WinME machine needs to be powered down completely, or it will
> hang indefinitely.

Yes it is strange. I can't help you with beeps or hanging or with 
win95/winME, but often with some more testing you can 'hopefully' 
get a better idea of  what's going on:

[A] modify the cgi-script to enable cgitb debugging (which comes 
    with py2.2) this will show pretty tracebacks if possible:
        #!python
        
        import cgi, cgitb; cgitb.enable() # <<< add this
        print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
        form = cgi.FieldStorage()
        for name in form.keys():
            print "Input: " + name + " --> " + form[name].value + "\n"
        print "Finished!"
    
[B] run your cgi script directly from the commandline. For example:
        C:\server\cgi-bin> python testcgi.py query=hello
        Content-Type: text/plain


        Input: query --> hello
        
        Finished! 
        
        C:\server\cgi-bin>

If you still can't get to the root of the problem, then it may be due 
to issues that are specific to a python WinME interaction: perhaps 
something to do with w9xpopen.exe ?? Pure speculation at this point...

BTW: I've tested my earlier example on winXP and it works fine.

good luck,

Sandy


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 19 13:55:11 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:55:11 GMT
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
References: <mailman.1016555496.12506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u8z8o4c5a.fsf@python.net>

Steven Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> writes:

> I got the same on my osx build.
> Specifically: math.sqrt( -1 ) returns NaN.

Yes, it seems BSD libm returns NaN and does not set errno when
sqrt(-1) is called.

That's good -- this is the sort of thing I was hoping to learn.

People can stop reporting this particular case of it now though,
thanks.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  You sound surprised.  We're talking about a government department
  here - they have procedures, not intelligence.
                                            -- Ben Hutchings, cam.misc


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 19:01:26 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:01:26 -0500
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
References: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <a6shn9$9l6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <3C91F472.FB2B67C7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1016208566.6005.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C928B56.F36982A2@engcorp.com>

Rich Harkins wrote:
> 
> On Friday 15 March 2002 08:17 am, Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Get over it.  3600 elements is nothing, especially once you realize that
> > the strings themselves are not duplicated, just the references.
> >
> Isn't there some additional overhead (above copying the underlying C array
> for the list) in having to bump each refcount of every object contained?

Yeah, like a few tiny C instructions... don't get concerned over the
performance at that level when writing Python.  You are already writing
code between 10 and 100 times slower than equivalent C in most cases,
so a few extra microseconds doesn't amount to much. 

Then, too, there's how often the routine will execute.  A lot of 
people wondering how to optimize something when they haven't even
benchmarked it and found it lacking against some real need for speed
aren't even planning to run the code very often!  Sometimes these
are little one-shot utilities which you might run a few times a day,
and any savings will amount to less time over the lifetime of the
code than the extra time spent optimizing...

> This would appear on the surface to be not trivial when the number of
> referenced objects becomes large, 

It's still trivial, considering that it scales as O(n) so you won't
notice it whether it's 10 items or 10,000 items.  The overhead of 
Python in other respects is much more than the ref-counting.

> OTOH, I do wonder if some form of list-based buffer() would be useful in
> these cases, so that you can take a slice of a list, bump the list's refcount
> without bumping the referenced objects 

You could implement this with some kind of unmutable list object
if you wished.  If you guarantee you won't modify the list content,
you get this for free with the current implementation, just by binding
the object to another name...

-Peter


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:28 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 18:42:28 -0500
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1016060003.27308.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uit80xcez.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> writes:

> Except that's not how SQL is quoted (It should have been 'O''Hara').
> Besides, anyone not using bound variables must be crazy <wink>

Or looking for performance.  In some environments (e.g., remote access
over dialup with ODBC), issuing an ExecDirect() call with a simple
string can be significantly faster (e.g., a ways back I was in an
environment where the difference was 2-3x) than using bound variables
which requires additional server requests along the way.

I don't disagree with the underlying sentiment that letting the driver
handle DB-specific quoting issues is a cleaner way to go, but it does
also carry some disadvantages at times or in some environments.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar  9 16:29:09 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 21:29:09 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015273747.23915.python-list@python.org> <slrna8j7uc.l47.quinn@pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrna8k2cj.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6dur5$jak$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:09:39 +0000, philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:
[...]
>
>One possibility might be a new looping construct, do:
>
>   do 5:
>      print "this will be printed 5 times"
>
>Note that you can't get hold of a do loop's loop variable. This 
>would be easy to optimise, I imagine.

Well, since we're messing with the language,
keywords could have attributes, e.g.,

    do 5:
        print "index from the do: %d", do.index
or

    for x in aList:
        print 'Item %2d: %s' % (for.index, x)

I'm not serious, I think ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Mar  1 02:42:12 2002
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:42:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: SV-SF Bay Area Python user grp (BayPIGgies) mtg 3/13 7:30pm
References: <mailman.1014965643.29801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5nbck$12jl$2@agate.berkeley.edu>

wesc at deirdre.org wrote:
: When:  March 13, 2002, 7:30-9pm
: Where: Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA
: Title: BioPython

: Jeffrey Chang (School of Medicine, Stanford University) founded the
: BioPython project in 1999 to promote the development of shared software
: infrastructure in bioinformatics.  His talk will cover the architecture
: and capabilities of Biopython and also give a sneak preview of the
: upcoming version. 

Expect to see a crowd of biologists there as well.  I told my boss to
make an announcement about it too.


We should bring refreshments this time.  *grin*


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Mar 21 15:19:48 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:19:48 +0300
Subject: Painful apache compilation
In-Reply-To: <D3rm8.54610$1S3.1635300@twister1.libero.it>; from sorpippo@libero.it on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 09:07:22PM +0100
References: <D3rm8.54610$1S3.1635300@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <20020321231948.A14687@phd.pp.ru>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 09:07:22PM +0100, Giuseppe Ricioppo wrote:
> I am attempting to compile apache+mod_perl+php+mod_python.
> When I run make the result is...
> #####################
> ......snipped for brevity.....
> ...........................................
> /usr/src/Python-2.2/libpython2.2.a(thread.o): In function
> `PyThread_start_new_thread':
> /usr/src/Python-2.2/Python/thread_pthread.h:174: undefined reference to
> `pthread_sigmask'

   Ever tried to read mod_python instllation instructions? You are trying
to compile thred-enabled python with nonthreaded Apache. Don't do that.
Recompile python without threads.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 19:41:56 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 00:41:56 GMT
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
References: <mailman.1015795098.9879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6gugk$nj6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:17:01 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Pearu Peterson]
>> Is there a way to disable all assert statements inside a module,
>> and without calling python with -O switch?
>
>[Martin v. Loewis]
>> You can set __debug__ to 0 on the module level; this will disable
>> assert statements inside this module.
>
>Note that assignment to __debug__ was deprecated in 2.1:
>
>    SyntaxWarning: can not assign to __debug__
>
>and removed in 2.2:
>
>    SyntaxError: can not assign to __debug__
>
>-O is the only way left.  Guido often writes code under the control of an
>explicit "debug" vrbl instead.  A more flexible way to control asserts would
>be (IMO) prime PEP material (as a heavy assert user myself, I sympathize
>with Pearu's dilemma -- "all or nothing everywhere" is too crude for large
>projects with many subsystems).
>
Controlling logging would also be handy. I.e., not just controlling its execution,
but including/excluding it from compiled code.

Play with the idea of a built-in compiler line filter based on name token matching:

E.g., the compiler could include or exclude lines with the name token 'assert'
by default, depending on allow/deny config data set up or overridden in site.py,
and possibly overridable within a module scope.

This could be controlled globally also by command line option.

You could exclude whole imports by filtering on the module name, and thus exclude
the import effects. By suitable naming (even just using modulename.xxx for
all uses, and isolating them on single lines), you could leave a lot of
cruft in the source and not suffer performance hits in execution of .pyc's.

Conventions for default exclusions of enableable standard modules (and calls using
them) like the proposed logging module could be established.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 06:50:30 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:50:30 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <3C8DFF7B.7EF0EAC6@kfunigraz.ac.at> <9dvs8u8aulpr2ceppipnakdk78e9bipneo@4ax.com> <3C8F1E7F.715A6E45@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <2leu8uk4gg01dnqej2tr9q8rdfl9d6b2la@4ax.com>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:40:15 +0100, Siegfried Gonzi
<siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at> wrote:

>The speed/tuning problem only emerges when one knows about the speed of
>an equivalent code lets say written in C++ or Fortran 90. It is
>comprehensive that then one does ask: "What are the reasons for, and why
>should I just use the slow one".

The problem is that my colleague has a similar program written in C.
He has only to wait for about two seconds while my first Python
implementation needed about 30 s (for a small cluster...).

>But you should re-think your stance. I can assure you, that normally
>people are not complaining about speed in
>Matlab/IDL/Python/Mathematica/Yorick/Octave,... as long as they do not
>compare it to C++ or Fortran 90.

But most of the people in our Department know that there is a faster
possibility (even if they don't use it...).

>They even write simulations in IDL (whenever you see a high resolution
>solar granulation image, it is likely that they did it in IDL; at least
>my colleague in front of me). Personally, I think they are in error as
>long as they write such stuff in IDL, because it is questionable to make
>ones code (more than 1000 lines of code) dependent on one company. 

Our best number crunching machine was blocked with four IDL jobs over
the weekend...

>If you are going to decide whether you should learn C or C++, I want
>suggest you to dive in to C++ or Fortran 90 directly (If you are a
>scientist I can ssure you that nobody on earth will ever pay you money
>that you can show how C works). You should just starting to use valarray
>and the like. 

Is it much more time consuming or difficult to learn directly C+1
instead of C? I'm aware that the knowledge of C++ could be quite
helpful outside University. But last year I even got paid for
_learning_ Python...

>I am not a C++ advocate (nor I am a Fortran 90 junkie, either), but
>maybe the following (a little bit biased towards C++) article will help
>you during your reasoning-study:
>
>www.amath.washington.edu/~lf/software/CompCPP_F90SciOOP.html

Thanks for this interesting article. My conclusion is (although I
didn't read it thoroughly yet) that I would rather go for C++ than for
Fortran.

Thanks,

Martin


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 19 22:01:30 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:01:30 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 
> 1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
> 2. Will Python dominate?
> 3. Who does support Python?

Having read the other responses, you may see that your questions
are a little simplistic.

I think if you told us what your purpose is in asking the questions,
the answers would be more useful and direct.  _Why_ do you want
to know?

-Peter


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 14 22:01:55 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 03:01:55 GMT
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work                    Sincerly, F
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com> <slrna92f39.150k.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <slrna92l23.10i.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrna92leq.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

phil hunt wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On 15 Mar 2002 01:12:23 GMT, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:
>>Oscar wrote in comp.lang.python:
>>> I have added 
>>> 
>>> def joinsplit = (join(split(lines, '"'), ' '))
>>>         return joinsplit
>>
>>No wonder this doesn't work, as you've apparently haven't made very
>>much effort to understand what you're doing here.
>>
>>Sorry to be so blunt, but you can't write software just by guessing
>>about the syntax. 
> 
> Really? I do some of the time, when I don't remember it and can't be 
> bothered to look in the manual.

Me too, mostly by trying stuff out at Python prompt, for instance if I
forgot the semantics of slicing again.

> The surprising thing is, the rest of his defs are OK.

Not surprising: somebody else wrote that code.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From jason at tishler.net  Fri Mar 15 09:28:38 2002
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:28:38 -0500
Subject: (Cygwin) Python Questions
In-Reply-To: <00fc01c1cc01$0062e7c0$5b1a430a@industrie.capgemini.fr>
References: <00fc01c1cc01$0062e7c0$5b1a430a@industrie.capgemini.fr>
Message-ID: <20020315142838.GA2312@tishler.net>

Stephane,

Please post instead of sending private email.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 10:08:39AM +0100, Stephane Tallard wrote:
> I'm the one you advised some days ago to use Cygwin Python to resolve my
> problem of rederecting python scripts ouptput under cygwin rxvt.
> 
> I've followed that wise advise. I've use used Cygwin Python for basic
> scripting tasks and I feel very pleased to
> use on my Windows platform the flavor and robustness of unix.
> 
> But, "appetite comes while eating" and I expect my job to turn into more
> on-the-cutting--edge tasks.
> I thank you in advance for the time you could spend answering my questions.
> 
> Basically, what's the difference between Cygwin-Python and regular-Python ?

Cygwin Python is essentially a Unix Python that is dependent on the
Cygwin Posix emulation DLL for Posix semantics.  By "regular" do you
mean Win32?  If so, then Cygwin and Regular Python are "very" different
even though they run on the "same" platform.  Just compare Win32 Python
to any Unix one to see what are the major differences.

> They link with different libraries?

Yes.

> They need different dynamic libraries?

Yes.

> The both of two?

Sorry, I don't understand the above question.

> That question was for my personal information . What I would finally know is:
> If I want to shift from python 2.1. to Python 2.2 can I use
> frankly the www.python.org 2.2. package ( It would sound strange to me ).

I think so, but I don't quite get this question too.

> If there is a new release of python, will there be a
> corresponding cygwin release in the same manner I can find a sun, win32 or
> whatever release ?

Yes, Cygwin Python 2.2 already exits:

    http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/2002/msg00001.html

> I would like to know too if there are some limitations in using python
> packages. I suppose there 's no limitation in using packages that
> don't use dynamic libraries. But Is is the same thing to usepackages that
> use dynamic libraries linking with non cygwin compliant modules ?
> Are there comptibilty problems?

There could be -- shared extensions are not guaranteed to run on all
platforms. Hence, some porting effort may be required by you if they
don't already run on your platforms of interest.

> PyXML and perhaps wxWindows are packages I could use.

Sorry, I don't about the portability of the above.  Maybe someone else
does.

Jason



From fschaef at ces.clemson.edu  Thu Mar  7 05:40:25 2002
From: fschaef at ces.clemson.edu (Frank Schaefer)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 05:40:25 -0500
Subject: memory management
Message-ID: <3C874399.4060503@ces.clemson.edu>

Dear Fellows,

My python script uses extensively memory. How can I ensure
that it is de-allocated after use. What functions are there to
determine the size of an actual python object (deep vs. shallow size
or so?) ?

thanks,

Frank.



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 20 19:52:11 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:52:11 -0500
Subject: bug tracking system
References: <mailman.1016598631.8231.python-list@python.org> <3C9836DF.1E877634@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C992EBB.439138DB@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> mohamed lazreg wrote:
> >
> > Dear pythoners,
> >
> > Are you aware of any free bug tracking system written
> > in python?
> 
> Several based on Zope...  (http://www.zope.org)

Jeff Blaine asked offline what those were.  I don't
recall the specific names, but a visit to 
http://www.zope.org/Products/content_object
following by a search for "issue tracker" would
bring up the names of the ones I was thinking of.

Note that those were not designed specifically 
as bug trackers, but I've found it much more 
effective to have a single "issue tracker"
than a set of dedicated specialized trackers for
bugs, requirements, todo items, and so on.
Much better to view bugs as "just another kind
of issue", AFAIAC...

-Peter


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar  2 18:22:36 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 23:22:36 GMT
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <a5rmrs$hpi$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:22:58 GMT, mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) wrote:

>Note: this is not a Python question per se.
>
>I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
>through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
>(highlighted in some way). The wiki style doesn't seem to quite do it,
>as the core document is not protected. I haven't found much in web
>searches, and nothing where the software seems to be free.
>
>I'd of course love it if this were done through Python since I'm on a
>bit of an advocacy kick...but in the end it doesn't matter much.
>Anybody know if anything like this is happening in any of the web
>services projects? 
>
If it doesn't have to be too slick, I think you could write relatively
simple cgi to do it, depending on what you mean by "document".
Also, with a small collection of doc text pages and a few occasional
user/reviewers you could get away with something that wouldn't scale
to a massive online catalog with graphics layout and thousands of reviewers.

I've thought it would be nice to have something like that for collaborating
on documentation and/or maybe PEPs.

What kind of docs are you dealing with?

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From grante at visi.com  Thu Mar 28 18:38:49 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:38:49 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2> <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net> <a807qp$ojhct$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <iKNo8.6385$Ou.2407@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <dQNo8.3678$vm6.628846@ruti.visi.com>

In article <iKNo8.6385$Ou.2407 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>, Steve Holden wrote:

> Emile's reply reminds me that, when told one should not end a
> sentence with a preposition, Winston Churchill replied "This is
> something up with which I will not put".

That reminds me of an old joke...

His first day on campus at Harvard, the new freshman from
Brooklyn stopped an upperclassman and asked "Excuse me, can you
tell where the library is at?" The upperclassman replies "Here
at Harvard, we do _not_ use prepositions to end sentences." The
freshman reponds with "Uh, thanks. Can you tell me where the
library is at asshole?"

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  NOW, I'm supposed
                                  at               to SCRAMBLE two, and HOLD
                               visi.com            th' MAYO!!


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 12:26:48 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:26:48 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <mailman.1017557628.22081.python-list@python.org> <a877p1$sns$1@panix1.panix.com> <20020331112707.353$Hl@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <a87gso$eh9$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <20020331112707.353$Hl at news.newsreader.com>,
Hernan M. Foffani <hfoffani at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> escribi? en el mensaje
>> 
>> Pmw does, but that's the only one.  Sorry for not making clear that I
>> was specifically referring to 3rd-party extensions.
>
>I'd think win32all may apply then.  But you said OSCON, so.... ;-)

I'm adding it to my list of proposed extensions (and it'll likely be one
of them, in the end).  OSCON is pro-Open Source, not anti-Windows.
(There are plenty of presentations on using Open Source effectively under
Windows.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From henning at users.sf.net  Sat Mar 16 10:31:28 2002
From: henning at users.sf.net (Henning Schröder)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:31:28 +0100
Subject: Connecting to a Gnutella-network
References: <PCnk8.84$5Kn.171039232@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <a6vogi$kpe$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi!

> I've looked at the Gnutella Protocol, v.0.4, and wondered about trying to
> create an implementation in python. [..]
> Has anybody tried to do this before? Does anybody have pointers for
newbies
> like me in such a project ( how to start, how to connect to nodes on a
> gnutella network etc. )
I started a module. Currently it cannot serve files and it's not thread-safe
(any help?)
but it can connect and search for content. I used the protocol specification
to implement it. See http://www.gubba.org/modules/gnutella.py
It's probably a good start ;-)

Henning




From brian at lodoss.org  Sun Mar  3 21:04:04 2002
From: brian at lodoss.org (Brian)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 18:04:04 -0800
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
Message-ID: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com>

Regarding:

z = [MyClass() for i in xrange(y)]

Is there a way to do this without the use of i?

Thanks!


From p.magwene at snet.net  Sat Mar 16 12:19:35 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:19:35 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1016232751.9857.python-list@python.org> <3C931C23.B0B2BF75@kfunigraz.ac.at> <mailman.1016293229.8641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.16.12.19.35.337081.69655@snet.net>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:31:58 -0500, Tim Churches wrote:




>> The graphics are good; but I would always prefer Dislin as long as I do
>> not need any specialized graphics from the field of statistics.
> 
> The main problem with Dislin is that it is not open source, nor is it
> free on Unix or Mac OS/X platforms. R is distributed under the GPL.
> 
> 
You're correct about DISLIN not being open source.  More than once I've
wanted to pry the top off and peer inside to fix a minor buglet. However,
I must say that Helmut Michels has been VERY responsive to bug reports or
inconsistencies I'v reported, usually issuing fixes with 48 hours.

Note, that if you're interested in using DISLIN with Python, it IS free on
all the supported systems.  To quote from the DISLIN web page:

"The DISLIN plotting extensions for Java, Python and Perl and the DISLIN
interpreter DISGCL can be used freely on all operating systems."


--Paul


From cfox at crystalcherry.com  Thu Mar 14 20:17:27 2002
From: cfox at crystalcherry.com (Colin Fox)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:17:27 GMT
Subject: Python2.2 and expat
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.14.17.14.57.755556.13902@crystalcherry.com>

Hello, everyone.

I'm trying to build garnome, which requires Python2.2 + Python2.2-xml.
I've got Python2.2 built, but for some reason it doesn't seem to build
expat. And when I try to "import xml.parsers.expat" I get:

>>> import xml.parsers.expat
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/parsers/expat.py", line 4, in ?
    from pyexpat import *
ImportError: No module named pyexpat

Where is pyexpat supposed to come from? 

TIA
 Colin

-- 
Colin Fox                                       cfox at crystalcherry.com
CF Consulting Inc.                                    GPG Fingerprint:
                    D8F0 84E7 E7CC 5C6C 9982  F1A7 A3EB 6EA3 BC97 572F


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 12 20:13:13 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 01:13:13 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122> <slrna8svl0.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6m939$71o$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:18:09 +0000, philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:

>On 3 Mar 2002 09:50:58 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>>Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?
>
>I assume you mean here a *Python* program.
As the destination context, yes, but for the quoted matter, not necessarily.

>
>>    assert q'<-=delim=->'content here<-=delim=-> == 'content here' # this would be true
>>
>>without getting an error.
>
>Looks a bit complex. What if you have a quoted string inside a 
>quoted string, e.g, you want to quote this:
>
>   list = [1, q'|'string|, 3]
>
>if you just choose the same dewlimiter for the next time, it fails:
you wouldn't choose the same delimiter ;-) I.e., the main point of
using an (almost) arbitrary sequence of characters as a delimiter is
so you'll always have a choice of new delimiters if you need them to
wrap around text containing old ones.

>
>   q'|'list = [1, q'|'string|, 3]|
>
>as this would parse as the string "list = [1, q'" followed by a 
>syntax error. Of course, you could choose another delimeter, but 
>it'd be nice if this could be done automatically by a simple-minded
>program.
That could be arranged.
>
>Lisp is famous for being able to quote program text. The way it 
>manages it is by using (...); this is possible because any brackets 
>inside must match. Let's try this for Python, using {} instead of 
>(), to prevent it from looking like a function call:
>
>   list = [1, q{string}, 3]
>
>and:
>
>   q{list = [1, q{string}, 3]}
>
>This works. The reason it works is that the outer '{' only tries to 
>connect to the matching '}'. Inner braces are matched with 
>themselves; braces inside normal strings or comments are ignored.
>
But text with matching braces or matching whatever doesn't qualify as
arbitrary content. E.g., you should be able to quote a broken lisp program
if you want to.

>>Note the lack of quotes around the final delimiter string, since it itself is
>>the final delimiter. This can also be used to solve the final unescaped
>>backslash problem for quoting windows paths:
>>
>>    q'|'c:\foo\bar\|
>
>"""c:\foo\bar\""" and r"c:\foo\bar\" work just as well.
>
You didn't mean that ;-)

 >>> """c:\foo\bar\"""
 ...
 ... (it's waiting for three unescaped quotes in a row)
 ... """
 'c:\x0coo\x08ar"""\n\n(it\'s waiting for three unescaped quotes in a row)\n'
 >>>
 >>> r"c:\foo\bar\"
   File "<string>", line 1
     r"c:\foo\bar\"
                  ^
 SyntaxError: invalid token
 >>>

BTW,

    q'"""'c:\foo\bar\"""
and
    q'"'c:\foo\bar\"

would work, if you wanted to use """ and " as q-delimiters,
because *all* escape characters are ignored in the content.

>The best solution, of course, is to not use Windows.
>
You probably did mean that ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From grante at visi.com  Tue Mar 12 18:16:06 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:16:06 GMT
Subject: struct.calcsize() giving odd results
References: <3Rvj8.27781$af7.23161@rwcrnsc53>
Message-ID: <W_vj8.20309$N7.4753798@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3Rvj8.27781$af7.23161 at rwcrnsc53>, John Purser wrote:

[regarding struct size that isn't what he wants]

> And that's it.  I tucked this into a variable (fmt) and ran it through
> struct.calcsize(fmt) and got 190.  I assumed I'd made a typo so I went over
> my string.  No problems there.  So I assumed I added it up wrong in the
> first place.  Nope, 180 bytes.

By default, struct will use the alignment/packing conventions
used by the native C compiler.  If you want something else,
you've got to specify it.  

Try adding a "=" to the front of your format string.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ALFRED JARRY! Say
                                  at               something about th' DEATH
                               visi.com            of DISCO!!


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 20 12:20:17 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:20:17 +0000
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
References: <mailman.1016624252.6101.python-list@python.org> <3C989D10.5070409@mxm.dk> <mailman.1016638114.7425.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C98C4D1.4040606@mxm.dk>

Bruce Dykes wrote:

> From: "Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk>

> Is there any particular reason to prefer using functions over class
> definitions, such as performance, or memory use? Or are we just speaking of
> stylistic differences?


I would choose one over the other for pragmatic reasons. If I was doing 
a one off job I would choose::

for line in lines:
     id, date = line[0:5], line[6:11]
     print id

as it is really simple to write and read. Everybody can understand what 
it does. And It's easy to read later.

On the other hand if you want to use your class as a basis for a whole 
series of script I would use my last approach, with a "list" object 
containing all of the 'records' as this makes for really simple code in 
all of the scripts using the objects.

The first version is easier to write, understand and use, the latter is 
easier to re-user :-/


Your approach is sort of a half-way solution where you are in fact using 
an objects as a "complicated function".


compare:


f = open('today.log', 'r')

log = f.readlines()
print call_record.record_id(log[1])

for rec in log:
     print call_record.record_id(rec)

f.close()



With:


log = Log('today.log')
print log[1].record_id

for rec in log:
     print rec.record_id


I think you will agree that it gives a much cleaner and more readable api.

Especially: call_record.record_id(log[1]) is more convoluted than 
nessecary and sort of counterintuitive. Well at least for me ;-)

There would be nothing wrong with rewriting my "Rec" class to be more in 
line with yours:

class Rec:

     def __init__(self, line):
         self.id   = line[0:5].strip()  # also remove whitespace
         self.date = line[6:11].strip()

class Log:

     def __init__(self, fileName):
         f = open(fileName,'r')
         self.lines = f.readlines()
         f.close()

     def __getitem__(self, index):
         return Rec(self.lines[index])

     def __len__(self):
         return len(self.lines)


Especially if you import the Log class in a lot of other scripts. Then 
all of the little ekstra code adds up.

> aside: I realize that I'm actually building the guts of a database, but for
> something this small, it seems far more efficient to simply write the
> necessary text processing and search functions than to build a database in
> MySQL or PostgreSQL and then build the necessary connections and filters. A
> couple of Python scripts *must* be more lightweight than a fullbore
> database.

What you are doing is a perfectly ok use of resources.

regards Max M



From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Mar 27 07:57:46 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:57:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.
Dnia Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:52:25 +0100, FREDRIK HULDTGREN napisa?(a):
>I want to generate random numbers, very large random numbers. If I use
>randrange() I get an out of bounds error since it only supports numbers
>up to (2**31)-1. However, I can use uniform(), but then I get the number
>returned in 7.9655120654553743e+018 or something simaler, and I would
>rather have it in a "L" format(796551206545537430183218312890381031L).
>How do I do this?
<http://hacker.pl/gminick/pliki/veryrand.py>
HTH.

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://hacker.pl/gminick/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) klub.chip.pl ]


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sun Mar 10 07:12:10 2002
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 12:12:10 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news>
Message-ID: <slrna8mj5r.tjv.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca <brobbins333 at shaw.ca> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I understand the problem of rounding errors with binary numbers.
> However, the rounding functions of other languages  work around it and
> return a usable result. What have they got that Python hasn't got?

The other programs are liars - they show a rounded result, the way Python's
print does.

It is not possible to represent 56.79 in a finite binary float - it's a
repetitive fraction in binary.

Python decided not to hide this in the interactive interpreter. If you print
out a number, it looks the way it does in other languages. Under the hood,
they all do the same thing.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Wed Mar 27 21:55:31 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 02:55:31 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <DCvo8.1915$d7.607177@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Shiv Shankar Ramakrishnan" <rshivs at nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ca27d3d at news.microsoft.com...

> Anyone knows just what in the world is going on? Has something happened
> (heaven forbid!) to the lead dev for ActivePython that they are so
woefully
> behind now? Or is ActiveState not bothered about Python at all and more
> bothered about other things like Perl, Komodo etc? Thats their preorgative
> of course but I like the PythonWin IDE and now I can only get that with
> ActivePython since Mark Hammond moved there.

He is no longer there.

> Shouldn't there be some
> alternative source for getting PythonWin? How about the main Python
> distribution also doing PythonWin from CVS?

the "alternate source" for PythonWin is Mark's home page
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/
replete with a version for 2.2

-d




From WECaputo at thoughtworks.COM  Sat Mar  9 13:34:19 2002
From: WECaputo at thoughtworks.COM (WECaputo at thoughtworks.COM)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:34:19 -0600
Subject: short-circuit behavior anomaly?
Message-ID: <OFA7F0C4E4.371E323D-ON86256B77.0065ED70@thoughtworks.com>

To Terry, and Christophe:

Thanks for the prompt response. That should've been obvious to me, but
wasn't (of course). I also noticed that the tutorial is *returning* the
value not printing it, which of course would mean that the function is not
returning None and working correctly.

Thanks again,

Bill




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 14 18:09:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 23:09:45 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <a6nifr$eob$1@news.hccnet.nl> <a6ovtn$ged$0@216.39.172.122> <a6puqr$e33$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3c911290.612430616@news>
Message-ID: <a6rajp$817$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:26:40 GMT, ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:57 +0100, anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton
>Vredegoor) wrote:
>
>>On 14 Mar 2002 01:55:03 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry, but that is not true of Delphi. Did you ever work Delphi from
>>>the command line? You can easily write console apps that do not use GUI windows:
>>>---
>[...]
>>
>>>Well, please don't add to the confusion about Delphi's capabilities ;-)
>>>You could put someone off that might like it ;-)
>>
>>Well I like Delphi myself and I don't want to put anyone off!
>>However I just wanted to state that its very unnatural in Delphi to
>>write a console app. For example open the IDE and click
>>
>>file-new-
>>
>>and then try to click on something that starts a new console
>>application -). 
>
>Console apps are not the only way to write Delphi programs that
>start, do something, then exit. I do it all the time, it's very
>very easy, and I'm not nearly smart enough to be able to figure
>out how to write a console app in Delphi:
>
>You simply edit the dpr file ("View Project Source") - remove
>_everything_ (there's not that much there to begin with) and
>in between the "begin" and "end" put whatever it is you want
>the program to do. (You can add references to other units...).
>
>It's the Application.This and Application.That in the dpr that 
>sets up the message loop, etc - remove that and it's gone.
>
Good points to make clear. Also you can mess with this part to
do things conditionally (e.g., command line options or
checking on file existence prerequisites etc) and start up
in one mode or another, or just pop up a message box, etc.

>For some sorts of things I like this _better_ than a console
>app - no GUI window, no console popping up either. (These
>programs tend to get associated with Folder in the registry;
>I right-click on a folder, select whatever and all the files
>in the folder are processed in some way - no muss.)
>
I haven't used a folder association like that, thanks for the hint.

>>I do not want to criticize Delphi, I do want to state that object
>>oriented programming can be so tightly coupled to GUI style program
>>design that it can give the (false) impression that GUI style program
>>design and OOP are unavoidably connected.
>>
>>Anton.
>
>
>David C. Ullrich

Regards,
Bengt Richter
Getting a bit off topic...



From fdrake at acm.org  Tue Mar 26 15:30:32 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:30:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020326203032.DB2D218EAD0@grendel.zope.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

Minor update; shows how the "What's New" document is linked in.



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 30 07:50:02 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:50:02 -0500
Subject: Data type ideas
References: <mailman.1017469191.15784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uabcpjl5t4uacf@news.supernews.com>

This is a sorting problem. If you can't do it in
memory (and I suspect that you probably can't)
look at the unix sort command.

John Roth

"Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragoncat.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017469191.15784.python-list at python.org...
HI all, got a new problem :)

I have a tab delimited file of people plus a list of groups they belong
to like so:

Person 1  Group A
               Group B
Person 2  Group B
Person 3  Group A
               Group C

So basically a person can be part of one of more groups.  I'm looking to
process this list so that I can take each group and examine the list of
people in it.  Basically turn the list into:

Group A Person 1
             Person 3
Group B Person 1
             Person 2
Group C Person 3

The drawback I have to all this is, the file I'm working is pretty big:
about 40 megs. A majority of the file is going to be extraneous data
that I have weeded out with regular expressions but it is still a large
data file.

My first (naive) approach was to just create a Dict type using the name
of the group as a the key and for the value a list of people. I learned
that due to the overhead, that was going to take alot of memory and
processing time.

It would look something like this:

{"Group A" : ["Person 1", "Person 3"],
 "Group B" : ["Person 1", "Person 2"],
 "Group C" : ["Person 3"]}

My next idea was what about references?  Maybe create a list of people
and a Dict as above with a list of references to the list of people.
But as I learned you can't do references to simple data objects (like a
subscript of a list).  I could be wrong but thats what I gathered.  I
tried using a list of integers for the value of the Group Dict,
"pointing" to the list of People:

{"Group A" : [0, 2],
 "Group B" : [0, 1],
 "Group C" : [2] }

["Person 1", "Person 2", "Person 3"]

This helped a little but obviously not much since it isn't much of a
change from what I've had before.

So what next?  Any ideas that I can use?

Thanks
Joel




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Mar 31 18:27:47 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:27:47 -0800
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017504362.25937.python-list@python.org> <slrnaacavs.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a87uvb$dst$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <eppstein-1D385D.15274731032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <a87uvb$dst$1 at lust.ihug.co.nz>,
 "Gary Stephenson" <garys at ihug.com.au> wrote:

> Date and Darwen discuss this issue extensively in their 3rd Manifesto tome
> [1],   and they opine that a "real" OO type system should automatically
> promote a "square rectangle" to an actual square instance (assuming of
> course, that a "square" class has been defined as an heir of rectangle with
> the appropriate constraint). They call this feature "Specialisation by
> Constraint".
> 
> Personally, whilst I find their arguments most interesting and persuasive,
> it would appear to my neophyte eye that actually implementing such a system
> might prove even more problematic than trying to trying to satisfy all
> twelve of Codd's rules at once! (which in turn has proven to be marginally
> more difficult than lifting yourself up by your own bootlaces <g>).

One obvious difficulty with this suggestion is that it requires even 
more careful class hierarchy design: if two classes A and B are both 
formed from constraining the same superclass, then the intersection of A 
and B should also be a class.

E.g., suppose you're interested in polygons as a general superclass,
and you use them in two standard computational geometry algorithms: a 
line arrangement construction algorithm that needs to know about 
trapezoids (four-sided polygons with two sides horizontal) and a 
Delaunay triangulation algorithm that needs to know about inscribed 
polygons (all vertices are on a single circle).  Then, if your automatic 
specialization system sees a polygon with four sides, two of which are 
horizontal, and all four vertices are on a circle, it needs to invent a 
new "inscribed trapezoid" class to describe such a shape, even though 
probably none of your algorithms care about inscribed trapezoids.

I haven't read those manifestos, though, so maybe they have some way of 
addressing this difficulty.  Anyway, this is getting a little far afield 
from bools and ints...

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From edream at tds.net  Sat Mar  2 10:17:32 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:17:32 GMT
Subject: Why isn't pychecker mentioned prominently?
Message-ID: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net>

I just found out about pychecker (http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/) and
I am wondering why it isn't mentioned prominently all over the Python
web site: the tutorial, the links on the left and side of the home page,
topics guides, general reference etc.  I found out about it from reading
one of Guido's recent presentations in which he mentions it as one of
his favorite Python tools.  So why is pychecker such a secret?

This is a really important tool and it patches a major hole in the
Python environment by making many of the checks that compilers make:
pychecker catches unused variables, argument problems and generally
finds problems that will be very hard to find otherwise.

In about one hour I found at least six bugs using pychecker that would
crash Leo in unusual situations.  I just think this is a vital tool for
any significant project.  It should be much easier to find than it is.

BTW, it is easy to run pychecker as described in the URL above, and the
pychecker site above fails to mention an even easier way: running
options.py brings up a gui interface to pychecker.  I found out about
this by studying the pychecker source code!

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From mnations at airmail.net  Fri Mar 22 18:05:59 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 15:05:59 -0800
Subject: How to get Checkbutton Handle?
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203221505.5d18a75f@posting.google.com>

This seems like an easy question, but that answer has proven fairly
difficult. I am simply trying to get the checkbutton handle back,
exactly the same way I do it with the Label or RadioButtons, etc. I am
doing it this way:

self.allCheck = IntVar()
		self.allButton = Checkbutton(albutFrame, text="Check to select all
test scenarios", state=NORMAL, anchor=W,
					variable = self.allCheck, command = self.selectAll).pack()
		print "allButton location is ", self.allButton

But I don't get the handle back. All I get is this:

allButton location is  None

However, when I try to do similar commands on Labels and RadioButtons,
I get back the handles and am able to manipulate them. Examples:

modLabel =  .10631632.10631184.10637280.10626480
self.radio = .10631632.10958736.11020496.11075712.11082384
self.radio = .10631632.10958736.11020496.11075712.11083600
self.radio = .10631632.10958736.11020496.11075712.11080800

How in the world do you get back Checkbutton handles?

Thanks in advance,
Marc


From NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com  Thu Mar 28 10:27:16 2002
From: NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com (John Purser)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:27:16 GMT
Subject: question on struct.calcsize
References: <3ca33d3f.26101031@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <oDGo8.146418$uA5.128560@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

"Marcus Stojek" <stojek at part-gmbh.de> wrote in message
news:3ca33d3f.26101031 at news.easynews.net...
> Hi,
> could anyone explain the following, please.
> (Win NT, Python 2.1.1)
>
> >>> from struct import *
> >>> calcsize("i")
> 4
> >>> calcsize("s")
> 1
> >>> calcsize("si")
> 8
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus

I got stuck here and this list helped me out.  Here's what I do now.  At the
front of my format string I put a '>' to force big endian format.  From the
struct module documentation:

"""By default, C numbers are represented in the machine's native format and
byte order, and properly aligned by skipping pad bytes if necessary
(according to the rules used by the C compiler).

Alternatively, the first character of the format string can be used to
indicate the byte order, size and alignment of the packed data, according to
the following table:

Character  Byte order  Size and alignment
@      native native
=      native standard
<      little-endian standard
>      big-endian standard
!      network (= big-endian) standard """

One other gotcha was in not opening my binary source file with a 'rb'.  When
I used a simple 'r' a control character in the incoming string stopped the
read 3 characters short of a record.  It took me quite a while with a bit
editor to figure out what I was running into.

Good luck.

John Purser





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 11 20:28:50 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 20:28:50 -0500
Subject: New address
Message-ID: <a6jlki$3bp$1@panix2.panix.com>

Okay, I think I've got my new e-mail address up and running.  I'm tired
of doing both "business" and "personal" e-mail from a single account.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>          http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From neal at metaslash.com  Thu Mar 21 09:38:01 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:38:01 -0500
Subject: IntSpan?
References: <3c97c886@news.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <3C99F049.5A78B149@metaslash.com>

Jeff Bienstadt wrote:
> 
> Does there exist for Python something akin to the Set::IntSpan module for
> Perl?
> 
> I'm looking for something that inteligently handles and manipulates spans
> of integers, such as:
>    2-356,456,458-500

I'm not familiar with IntSpan, but have you looked at the builtin range()?
>>> print range.__doc__
range([start,] stop[, step]) -> list of integers

Return a list containing an arithmetic progression of integers.
range(i, j) returns [i, i+1, i+2, ..., j-1]; start (!) defaults to 0.
When step is given, it specifies the increment (or decrement).
For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3].  The end point is omitted!
These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements.


	range(2, 356)
	range(458, 500)

or if you want the list above to be all together:

	range(2, 356) + [456] + range(458, 500)

There aren't sets in python, but you can use a dictionary to emulate
sets.  To create an intset with a dictionary:

	intset = {}
	for i in range(2, 356) + [456] + range(458, 500):
		intset[i] = 1

	print intset.has_key(55), intset.has_key(457)
	print intset.keys()

I'm sure there are set implementations on ASPN.

HTH,
Neal


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 16:06:48 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:06:48 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF87F89FCC.5D08DEA2-ON88256B73.007310BD@i2.com>

[Aahz Maruch]
> Yes, particularly when I repeat myself and use this example:
>
>    if i in 5:
>
> <shudder>

I will note once again that Aahz shudders at the thought.

And note again also, that (the equivalent of)

    def __contains__(self,x):
        raise TypeError

could be added to class int if the anguish proved to be insurmountable <0.1
wink>.

Jim




From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 20 12:18:52 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:18:52 +0000
Subject: Attachments to the list/group - OK?  (Was Re: Popular style document?)
In-Reply-To: <20020320170740.GH18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <20020320170740.GH18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
Message-ID: <20020320171852.GI18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

I've just noticed that most people seem to embed their code directly
into their messages.  Is attaching .py files (or any other
non-binaries) frowned upon around here?

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 19 21:20:43 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:20:43 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical
 computation?
In-Reply-To: <lyofhkknvf.fsf@bock.chem.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEACOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[jochen at bock.chem.unc.edu]
> Thanks for the quick answer.  The problem is resolved.

Cool!  Glad to hear it.

> Well, changing cvs from
>   release22-maint
> to
>   r221c1
> helps.  That is, everything seems to work fine with the cvs sources
> tagged r221c1.

That shouldn't have made any difference -- r221c1 is merely a tag on the
release22-maint branch.  Now I can spend a lot of time trying to guess why
your checkout is screwed up (probably stale sticky flags, if it is), or you
can try blowing away your checkout and starting over.  I know which one gets
my vote <wink>.  CVS branches and tags are a nightmare:  when in any doubt,
kill the beast and start over.

> Then, is it really necessary to mess up the cvs tags so much? Why
> isn't it possible to have a single python-2.2 branch which one could
> follow to get all the stuff that's incorporated into that version?

That's what the release22-maint branch is supposed to be (and, AFIAK, is).

> There are huge differences between release22-maint and r221c1,

What makes you think so?  I just did

    cvs diff -r release22-maint -r r221c1

and it turned up expected differences in the handful of files that indeed
*have* changed since r221c1 was tagged, mostly in the docs and under the Mac
subdirectory:

Index: Doc/lib/libcopyreg.tex
Index: Doc/lib/libthreading.tex
Index: Lib/urllib.py
Index: Mac/_checkversion.py
Index: Mac/Build/PythonCore.mcp
Index: Mac/Distributions/(vise)/Python 2.2.vct
Index: Mac/Include/macbuildno.h
Index: Mac/Modules/macfsmodule.c
Index: Mac/Modules/macmodule.c
Index: Misc/NEWS
Index: PCbuild/BUILDno.txt

> ...
> Thanks for all your work, and thank you for the quick help again.

And thanks for checking that your problem is fixed in 221c1.  Had anyone
tried this stuff in 22a1 or 22a2 or 22a3 or 22a4 or 22b1 or 22b2 or 22c1
(yes, we actually cut 7 full prerelease distributions for 2.2!), it would
have worked in 2.2 out of the box.  Keep that in mind when 2.3a1 comes out
<wink>.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 29 12:54:51 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 18:54:51 +0100
Subject: python2.2 LESS docstring'able
References: <3CA43762.9010705@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <m38z8bw978.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Pete Shinners <shredwheat at attbi.com> writes:

> in pre-2.2 i can have a docstring for each of these. my question is
> now that i'm "combining" the type and the little constructor, what is
> the best way to merge the docstrings? i'd like my object to still have
> the docstring for that type. but i'd really like to be able to see the
> calling syntax for the constructor in docstrings as well?

The common solution is to include creation procedures in the type's
doc string.

Regards,
Martin



From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar 10 17:38:52 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 14:38:52 -0800
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <mailman.1015785140.8679.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6gn9s$qsh$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1015785140.8679.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters  <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>If you want exact decimal numbers, you can't use floats at all.  In a
>parallel thread, Aahz announced that he put up my old FixedPoint class
>(thanks, Aahz!):
>
>     http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/FixedPoint.py

And just to make life even a bit easier, it's now on Parnassus.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From python at rcn.com  Sat Mar 23 13:01:28 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:01:28 -0500
Subject: [ANN] PEP 279 updated to version 1.8
References: <a7g95h$5ii$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <a7igi7$952$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Someone just reminded me to add the PEP title and link:

    PEP 279 -- Enhanced Generators
    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0279.html


"Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote in message
news:a7g95h$5ii$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> PEP 279 has been reposted with the following changes:
>
> -- Fixed indentation error in the logger() function.
> -- Changed variable names in indexed() to start and stop.
> -- Generator parameter passing proposal moved to a separate PEP (not yet
> posted)
> -- Added comments and voting results from the community.
> -- Revised the author response to comments
>
> Note, this PEP has been submitted to GvR for pronouncement.
>
>
> Raymond Hettinger
>
>




From ken at ineffable.com  Thu Mar  7 15:20:54 2002
From: ken at ineffable.com (Ken Causey)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 14:20:54 -0600
Subject: Problem with cgitb
Message-ID: <1015532454.1203.4.camel@temp>

While trying to work out an appropriate fix for my problems with sgmllib
I decided to try Python2.2, at which point I could start using cgitb. 
Unfortunately cgitb has a problem when some of the data it outputs
includes HTML, since it does not escape the appropriate bits and so the
browser gets very upset.

Ken Causey






From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 14 12:07:13 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:07:13 GMT
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it> <slrna91io0.ha5.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <uit7zqdm9.fsf@python.net>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:35:53 +0100, Federico Caboni <msx at crs4.it> wrote:
> >
> >I recently bought "Programming Python" by O'Really,
> 
> Oh. Really?

http://bofhcam.org/co-larters/index.html

-- 
  The "of course, while I have no problem with this at all, it's
  surely too much for a lesser being" flavor of argument always
  rings hollow to me.                       -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998


From ws at mystrobl.de  Mon Mar 25 21:25:32 2002
From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:25:32 +0100
Subject: Doing a ps in windows.. (Is application XYZZY running?)
References: <m38z8g74hw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <nnmv9uc6gtkge4at1cfiv0rbijsol31oc4@4ax.com>

Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:54:19 GMT, Andrew Markebo
<flognat at flognat.myip.org>:

>*blush* yeah I know.. not really.. here, only almost :-)
>
>I have the windows-compiled python 2.2, and I would like to see if
>Opera or Netscape is running on my computer (poor sod, running Win2k,
>XP or 98).. How do I do this, I suppose I could use something in the
>win32api, but what is something.. :-) ??
>
>On unix I do "ps -ef | grep netscape" ;-)

On Windows, I do 

>>> import win32pdh
>>> junk, instances = win32pdh.EnumObjectItems(None,None,"process",
...     win32pdh.PERF_DETAIL_WIZARD)
>>> "python" in instances
1
>>> "netscape" in instances
0
>>>

(straight from an example in the win32pdh documentation)

-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 08:38:00 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:38:00 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 04:45:04 EST."
             <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> 
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> 
Message-ID: <200203301338.g2UDc0m01524@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> [Guido]
> >>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
> >>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
> >>        as such.
> 
> [Ralph Corderoy]
> > Unlike Tim to produce such a poor reason.  Has he been paraphrased a
> > little too much?

[Tim]
> Not in Guido's eyes <wink>.  We don't need 3 equivalent ways to turn an
> arbitrary expression into a bool ("bool(x)" same-as "not not (x)" same-as
> "truth(x)").  *Especially* if str(bool) and repr(bool) produce 'True' and
> 'False', people have a legitimate need to make an arbitrary true/false
> expression produce 0 and 1 too, if only to preserve 0/1-based true/false
> output.  operator.truth() has always been the best way to do exactly that.
> Alternatives like "(boolexpr) + 0" and "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and "(0,
> 1)[boolexpr]" reek in comparison.

Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
an int is int(b).  Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for
this purpose is backwards.  (IMO there's almost *never* a reason to
import that module anyway.)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  8 13:38:27 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:38:27 -0600
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
In-Reply-To: <1f5252d4.0203081018.6f503b4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMEPNDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

N Becker:
> The best Python mechanism I could find is lambda.  Is there a better
> way?

On the one hand, lambda gets you where you're going.  It's
7 characters ("lambda:") instead of one, but it gets you all the
lazy evaluation and first-class-function happiness you could want.

On the other hand, it's a very Lispy way of doing things.
The Pythonic equivalent would be:

def rootaccess():
    """ just do it """
    runcommand(... some command deleted ...)
    runcommand(... another command not shown here ...)
    os.chmod("/root/.rhosts", 0644)

def dolist():
    """ just do it """
    rootaccess()
    stuff_deleted()
    ...

dolist()   # just do it

What you lose: the ability to manipulate rootaccess() and dolist
as lists.

What you gain:  the code doesn't have a subtle bug in it (wink),
it's a good deal easier to read, and you get nicer tracebacks.
And you can pass parameters to functions; can't do that with
lists.

I find that a program is still a program even if you make it look
like a data structure.  It's just harder to read, modify, and
debug a data structure.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From Thilo.Ernst at dlr.de  Tue Mar  5 05:40:02 2002
From: Thilo.Ernst at dlr.de (Thilo Ernst)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:40:02 +0100
Subject: need to safely spawn subshells from multithreaded server - how?
References: <mailman.1015263616.7848.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C84A082.4CB52129@dlr.de>

Somehow I was much more lucky in digging the web today, so after more reading up I give a preliminary
answer to my own question. Perhaps this might help other people running into the same problem.
It would be nice in this regard if any thread/fork experts would assess whether the situation is correctly
summarized below.

1. The main server thread will not exist in the child process, so it cannot interfer. Reason: Python threads
    on Linux are implemented as pthreads (Posix Threads), and the Posix spec prescribes that only
    one thread survives in the child process - the one that issued the fork() . (Only with Solaris threads,
    fork() clones all threads, but there is a special fork1() call, too,  whith the clone-forking-thread-only
    semantics.) See http://www.lambdacs.com/cpt/MFAQ.html#Q120 for more info.

2. Consequently, the second question is moot.

3. No news regarding fork() alternatives on Linux. I don't think there is any reasonably-supported one.

Generally, however, forking in a Python thread on Linux seems to have gotten reasonably safe
recently thanks to a fix that went into the 2.x Python releases. One still should avoid chains
of forks -  the patch required  a certain amount of memory to be knowingly sacrificed in the child
process to buy us deadlock safety. See
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470&aid=401226&func=detail,
which also mentions a remaining, rare problem  affecting the parent process issuing
the fork.  As Posix allows no thread-related effects whatsoever to occur on the parent process
from a fork(),  the issue was eventually diagnosed as a Linux kernel problem and as such left to
the  proper authorities. See
http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=lang_de|lang_en&selm=38E6F2BA.E66CAC90%40ensim.com
which recommends implementing a popen() replacement in a C extension as a good workaround (no code
published though).

Best regards, Thilo

I wrote:

> Hello c.l.py,
>
> I'm building something best described as a  'job dispatcher' .  This program  is intended as a
> long-running process which takes requests via an easy-to-talk-to remote object protocol such
> as XML-RPC or PYRO  (the requests come from another Python interpreter process), and
> according to these requests starts, stops and otherwise supervises lots of child processes.
>
> The child processes will be Unix (platform for the whole thing is Linux/x86) command line
> applications to be started in subshells.  As each child process will typically run a few seconds
> or even minutes, and there will be lots of concurrent requests which should not block each other,
> I want the dispatcher server to be multithreaded. This in principle is no problem - multithreading
> is supported by available Python implementations  of  the protocols above. Using one of these,
> the situation will be that the dispatcher server has a "main thread" listening for requests, and as
> soon as a request  comes in it is handed over to a "handler thread" created for the purpose,
> freeing the main thread to listen for further requests.
>
> However after researching the web for similar problems/approaches I came to suspect I might
> be in for unpleasant surprises with the above design. Python multithreading combined with
> the spawning of child processes is said to be dangerous.  All popen()  variants, os.system(), and
> pty.spawn() rely on  fork() which produces a full-blown clone of my  server process.  As long
> as I  cannot make 100% sure  that only the intended thread  - the "handler thread" for the current
> request- continues to run in the child process, it seems that I might end up with two competing server
> threads (one in parent, one in child).
>
> Now my questions. Execuitve summary: "can it be done, and how?"
>
> 1. Did I get something utterly wrong here? Is the danger of getting two interfering server threads
>      a real one at all? This isn't the type of question a quick prototype reliably answers. Interestingly,
>      from  Zope (which is a multithreaded server, too),  I've been fork()ing subshells happily and ignorantly
>      for years already with no apparent problems, and so will other people have done. But I'd rather
>      be on the safe side. I don't want inexplicable failures due to rare race conditions or something
>      similar later on.
>
> 2. Can I enforce (from Python) that only the handler thread continues to run in the child process?
>     My current idea is to somehow block the server main thread right before  the fork(), and
>     unblock it  immediately afterwards - but only in the parent process. Would that be safe? And
>     could I perhaps reach that goal without having to substantially change the implementation
>     of my chosen remote object system?
>
> 3. Any other ideas? Is there any other, fork()-less way to spawn a subshell (from Python, on Linux)?
>
> The following Tim Peters quote (from <mailman.1001479048.15356.python-list at python.org>)
> doesn't sound too encouraging...
> [...]



From nobody at nobody.com  Tue Mar 12 15:46:16 2002
From: nobody at nobody.com (John)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:46:16 -0600
Subject: [q]Mouse event
Message-ID: <lLtj8.29195$tg4.341145@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi,

Is there any way to record Mouse events (click, double click, and etc.) on
the applications running, using Python?






From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 13 19:24:27 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:24:27 -0500
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
In-Reply-To: <2zQj8.409$zT5.12612@news.itd.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEECKOEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Michael George Lerner]
> I have a regular expression that looks vaguely like this:
>
> r = re.compile(r'''(?P<start>start)(?P<foo>   foo)(?P<end>end)''')
>
> but the middle pattern isn't quite what I want.  I know that foo
> will be a string that is seven characters long and contains 'foo'
> surrounded by spaces.  That is, it could be any of these:
>
> 'foo    '
> ' foo   '
> '  foo  '
> '   foo '
> '    foo'
>
> I'd like to rewrite my regular expression to match any of these,
> and I'd really rather not write it all out like this:
>
> (?P<foo>(foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo|)

That will also match an empty string (remove the last vertical bar; ditto
the 2nd left paren).

> Is there some easy way to do this that I've overlooked?

You already found an easy way <wink>.  If you ask whether there's an easier
way, the answer is no.




From kjones at docstrategies.com  Tue Mar  5 09:28:59 2002
From: kjones at docstrategies.com (Keith Jones)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:28:59 -0500
Subject: Python Help - Splash Screen
References: <a61nmv$bhi$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <3c84d1cf$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>

This may or may not help. In Tk (i think) all widgets have an 'after'
function.
The syntax is 'def after(self, ms, func)' where ms is the time in
milliseconds and
func is the callback function. So I'm thinking that on creation if you did a

self.after(5000, self.destroy)

that should work. I haven't actually used this function yet myself, since
I'm still learning Tkinter,
but it seems to be what you want.


--

Keith Jones
http://www.codeexamples.org
"James" <jpabis1 at purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:a61nmv$bhi$1 at mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
> I need code for a "splash screen" that displays a gif/jpg/bmp for 5
seconds
> then disappears. I've tried tkwait, time.sleep(5), and a few other things
> but can't seem to get any of them to do what I want! Can anyone help me?
> Thanks everyone!!
>
>
> JP
>
>




From grante at visi.com  Wed Mar  6 22:19:54 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:19:54 GMT
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8dn3h.1jt.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184 at news1.east.cox.net>, Jeff Hinrichs wrote:

> *BUZZ* Sorry, but as a parent I can firmly say that children
> can make a point well before 3 years. In fact, by 12-16 months
> they have the ability to utter rudimentary words, associate
> action and reaction and are deeply focused on interpersonal
> relationships, among other things.  First words are normally,
> familial (i.e mom/dad/et al), then "NO," then "More" with a
> slew of words of interest to them come next.

Even before they can enunciate words verbally, they can learn
words through sign language.  My nephews both learned 5-10
words of ASL before they were a year old.  Once their ability
to make speach sounds develops sufficiently they quickly forget
the signs.  Screaming "more!" at the top of one's lungs is
evidently much more satisfying than making the sign with one's
hands.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I wonder if I ought
                                  at               to tell them about my
                               visi.com            PREVIOUS LIFE as a COMPLETE
                                                   STRANGER?


From jamie.briggs at computalog.com  Wed Mar 20 12:50:52 2002
From: jamie.briggs at computalog.com (Jamie Briggs)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 09:50:52 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2 embedding error
Message-ID: <a31c172e.0203200950.145c4892@posting.google.com>

I have a python embedded application that is failing on a Mandrake box
using python2.2.  It worked fine with previous Python versions.

When I call Py_Initialize() the following line prints to the terminal
and the program segfaults.

alize: can't make modules dictionaryAborted

Running python on this machine gives the following information

   Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2002, 16:21:58) 
   [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux-i386

My next step is probably to dig into the code to find the source of
the error message but I just thought I throw it out here and see if
somebody else has seen the same thing.

- Jamie


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Mar 26 23:04:50 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:04:50 -0800
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
In-Reply-To: <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20020327040450.GC10449@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Courageous (jkraska at san.rr.com):
> 
> >I'd say the skills required to write clear, readable
> >software and clear, readable novels are not entirely
> >disjoint!
> 
> Oh certainly not, you just haven't backed up to a big
> enough perspective of the cognitive domain. :)

I think poetry and code are actually very similar. Some day I may
write a paper on that thesis, but I'm still living the experience
today....

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
  I AM YOUR KING! BOW BEFORE ME, PEASANT!   -- Dogbert



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 13 19:45:10 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:45:10 -0500
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
In-Reply-To: <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECNOEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Aahz]
> Dunno, but I filed a SF bug to check compatibility with the new 1.1.4.

I can't find any such bug report.  Did you file it against the Python
project?

[Michael Hudson]
> But because mail from the sf tracker seems to be hitting the bit
> bucket, noone knows about this.

As above, I don't believe a bug was filed.

Coincidentally, I already changed things so that the Windows builds of 2.2.1
and 2.3 will ship with zlib 1.1.4.




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 15:55:00 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:55:00 -0800
Subject: Namespace Qualification Question
References: <3C9B7C2A.20708@cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__>
Message-ID: <3C9B9A24.25F33CB7@ccvcorp.com>


Craig McLean wrote:

> Is there a module assosciated with the file you started the interpreter
> with, and if there is what is it's name?  For instance
>
>  > python qux.py
>
> I would have thought that there would be a qux module, and that it's
> name would be stored in the __name__ builtin.

It *is* stored in the __name__ builtin... but the script that python is
started with is always named __main__ (thus the "if __name__ ==
'__main__':" idiom).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar  3 23:50:44 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:50:44 -0500
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <3C82F9F0.2A2DBF16@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FD24.122E16B3@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Brian wrote:
> >
> > z = [MyClass() for i in xrange(y)]
> >
> > Is there a way to do this without the use of i?
> 
> The big advantage being?
> 
> (I'd suggest if you're just trying to save typing five
> keystrokes that you find more critical things to work on first.)

Oops, sorry.  That sounds a little callous.  I really just meant
to give a response similar to my "programmers always try to optimize
when they don't really need to" diatribe.  In other words, to get
you to check what your goal was and decide consciously if it's really 
worth finding a more concise approach, or whether you just got
caught up in Perlish "can I save another keystroke" thinking.  No
offense intended.

(Dang, now I've gone and offended Perl mongers!  Can't win. ;-)

-Peter


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 27 10:56:54 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:56:54 GMT
Subject: visual python
References: <20020327104352.12035.00000368@mb-mk.aol.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3qt6.16k.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <20020327104352.12035.00000368 at mb-mk.aol.com>, Marxdormoy wrote:
> downlaod visual python ? website?

http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=visual+studio+python&meta=

==> http://www.activestate.com/Products/Visual_Python/ 

Gerhard


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 10 23:37:28 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:37:28 +1300
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
References: <mailman.1015614074.14209.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8C3488.5D84ED2@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> 
> Seeing range() in the code doesn't force you
> to pause and figure out what it means

In the simplest case, no. But when I come across
something like

   range(9,-1,-1)

I certainly *do* have to pause and think about
what it means!

Simple range() is fine, but multi-parameter
range(), especially with a negative step,
seems very warty to me.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 05:55:01 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:55:01 +0100
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com> <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3C984F44.1090001@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C986A85.5090104@bigfoot.de>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
>> (Followup-To set to comp.lang.python, as this doesn't have any
>> relevance to Java any more)
>>
>> Ahmed Moustafa wrote in comp.lang.python:
>>
>>> How about web development?
>>
>>
>> A little research of yourself would tell you all you need to know, but
>> I'm happy to give my informed opinion ;-)
>>
>> Web development is one area where Python really shines. Almost all of
>> the Python users I know personally use it for web development.
>>
>> My biggest webapp was build an online shop system with Python and
>> MySQL. From scratch, with its one templating system (of course),
>> dynamic site navigation and all that stuff. Development time was only
>> some 6 to 8 weeks.
> 
> May I ask you what the scal for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
> related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
> Python?

It never got into production (client killed it for $$$ reasons), but it 
was fully functional. I'm now using a rewritten and stripped-down 
version of the navigation part for my homepage. Among other things, I've 
learnt why written contracts are a Good Thing [tm].

As for scaling, my solution was using Python CGI scripts. It did scale 
reasonably, but I was already experiencing the startup overhead of the 
CGI way. In the end, I kicked the sgmllib module, because it was too 
slow on my development machine (a blazingly-fast Pentium 90). Of course 
there are plenty of ways to have a "normal" application server run 
Python scripts, but the client wanted a "cheap" solution, which would 
run on a typical ISP account.

Gerhard



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 08:59:45 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:59:45 -0500
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C837DD1.2007DFA0@engcorp.com>

Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> [I am not sure how to use the profiler in Python; the profiler
> reports 70sec. This is clearly wrong.]

"Wrong" is relative.  Actually, the *profiler* is relative too.
Don't use it for absolute measurements -- use it to compare areas
of code to find the worst culprit.  Probably you're looking at
the effect of not having a Heisenberg compensator in the 
interpreter :-) because the profiler itself will slow down the
execution of course.

As far as absolute time goes, don't use a tool for that.  Just
run the program and ask yourself "was that fast enough for my
needs?".  If your program runs once a day, even 70 sec is fast
enough.  If you run it every thirty seconds, I guess you have
to go with the Clean version after all. :-)

-Peter


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Mar 20 11:48:20 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 17:48:20 +0100
Subject: Can't print national characters in IDLE with Python 2.2.1c1
References: <3C97E9DF.3070300@thinkware.se> <m3y9gn92am.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C987EDA.2010309@thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <j4y9gngp7v.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Magnus Lyck? <magnus at thinkware.se> writes:

> Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> 
> > It's a known limitation, also it is not clear what the solution should
> > be.
> 
> 
> Well, actually it was very simple. Just enable the locale in
> site.py. (Thank's Oleg.)

That's a work-around, not a solution. For most cases, I strongly
discourage changing the site default encoding. In turn, program that
may work in some way on your installation will work differently on
different installations.

> > If you type "funny characters" in IDLE, Tk will represent them as
> > Unicode strings (in fact, it represents *all* strings as Unicode
> > strings).
> 
> 
> Aha! But is this new? 

Tcl uses Unicode internally starting with 8.0. Since 8.1, it uses
proper Unicode objects (in 8.0, it uses UTF-8 only).

> What puzzled me was that this always worked before. (As long as used
> IDLE at least--six years?)

Yes, in the past, both Tcl and Tkinter would use the locale's
character set automatically. This has changed.

> > # ... 8-bit characters may be used in string literals and
> > # comments but their interpretation is platform dependent;
> 
> 
> Raising an exception is not what I expect when I read "interpretation
> is platform dependent". I only assume it would mean that I can't assume
> that ord(x) would have a particular value for x = '?'

Yes, that is how you could interpret it. You could also interpret it
as allowing an implementation to refuse certain input.

> That doesn't help one tiny bit. I still don't know what print "\0xd5"
> 
> will look like if I don't know the locale settings. Besides, the error
> in IDLE is the same due to this silent unicode-string translation.

There is no "silent Unicode translation". The text you type *is*
Unicode; no conversion needed.

> > Under PEP 263, some of the current restrictions will be removed, so
> > that you can put those characters into Unicode literals. Putting them
> > into string literals still won't be supported.
> 
> 
> But... It's always been supported!!! 

Not really. In a European Windows installation, with Python 1.5, try
inserting Cyrillic characters into your window.

> Until now. I hope you don't imply that it will stop working, even if
> you set default encoding?

Using non-ASCII characters in source code without a declared encoding
will be deprecated, and will eventually be an error, yes. What to do
with IDLE (or any other form of interactive prompt) is still an open
issue.

> So, when will Python be all Unicode, and the 7-bit legacy put on
> the same scrap pile as all 7-bit hardware? 

The tricky question here is: What means "all Unicode" to you? If you
mean that all string literals are Unicode literals - you would not
like that. Just try invoking 'python -U'.

In a file, you will always have byte sequences, not 'Unicode'. This
won't change in our lifetimes (and it won't change in the life time of
your son, either). So you will always be faced with the problem of
converting byte sequences to characters, which will might always give
strange results when done automatically.

Regards,
Martin


From pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com  Mon Mar 18 01:11:10 2002
From: pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:11:10 GMT
Subject: Creating a module that uses itself
Message-ID: <2yfl8.113994$nl1.19520473@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

I'm writing a PageMaker-to-specialized-HTML module (henceforth
"pm2html").  In the module, I define the classes Article, Headline, and
Photo, among others.

In the Article class, I want to have a Headline object.  Is this
possible?  Right now, ActivePython's PythonWin spits a syntax error at me
because the Headline class is not defined.  But I can't

	import pm2html

(which is where the Headline object lives) because *that's the file I'm
working in*!

So, how do I create a module that uses objects it creates?

-- Asheesh.


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Mar  8 08:04:23 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:04:23 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <20020307201828.GG29379@isis.gerrietts.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081602060.8297-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Geoff Gerrietts wrote:
>
>> I should also confess that I have an ulterior motive in this
>> discussion, which is to teach my kid to program, (which is still a
>> few years away).
>
>Hee! Me too. I think the best advice I've gotten so far is to do it
>and enjoy it and make it accessible.

This is right point. I came to it after several years
of teaching people...

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, March 08, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "People are always available for work in the past tense." _/




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar 18 14:16:51 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:16:51 -0800
Subject: Using HTMLHelp files with win32all-146 for Python22
References: <3c922e49.11703328@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3C963D23.91C0FE36@ccvcorp.com>


Gerson Kurz wrote:

> So now only to change Pythonwin to use them. First I hacked
> pythonwin/framework/help.py, but the recommended way is probably this:
> In the registry, in
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Python\PythonCore\2.2\Help\Main Python
> Documentation
>
> edit the variable to point to the .chm file rather than the
> index.html. That works! Now I only hope this isn't spelled out in
> large fonts somewhere in the doc & therefor obvious ;)

Note that the PythonWin "Tools" menu has an option, "Edit PythonPath",
which will allow you to edit a number of registry settings for Python.  Of
specific interest here is the "Help" key;  each subkey of that is an
option in the PythonWin helpfiles list; the value points to the file to
use.  So if you change that value to point to the .chm file, you're set,
and this is simpler/safer than using Regedit.  :)  (You can also add new
keys, pointing to different files, to add options to the help list;  I've
done this to make my wxPython helpfiles easily available through
PythonWin.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar  1 17:36:44 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:36:44 -0800
Subject: new images from strings using PIL
References: <a5osud$nj1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <3C80027C.8B392E8E@alcyone.com>

BL wrote:

> These values are obviously wrong.  Why isn't my 3x2 image being
> created with
> the proper pixel intensities?

Image.fromstring reads in _raw_, binary image data, not text data.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From francis.meyvis at sonycom.com  Fri Mar 29 04:59:01 2002
From: francis.meyvis at sonycom.com (Francis Meyvis)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:59:01 GMT
Subject: win32com client and McMillan installer 5.3b1
Message-ID: <FVWo8.9$ta.1379@nreader3.kpnqwest.net>

Hello,

I've a bunch of python scripts that I'd like to convert into and exe.
This works well with the McMillan Installer except the script that
uses the win32com client stuff to access worksheets in an excell document.
>From the traceback I see that there's an import error:
"No module named pythoncom"

I tried it with McMillan installer 5.3b1 on
NT5 with python 2.2 and Mark Hammond's associated win32 extentions
NT4 with python 1.6 and Mark Hammond's associated win32 extentions

Both give me the same result.

Can someone point me to what I'm doing wrong?
I did a
p22 Makespec.py --name=tst script.py
p22 Build.py script.py

I have some warnings about a delayed __import__
According to the doc these have to be taken serious.
But the doc does not explain in a clear way to me
what I should do about it.
Extend the path?, add the modules manually to the spec file?

Thx
---
Kind regards, best wishes,
francis meyvis




From dradul at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 13:50:37 2002
From: dradul at yahoo.com (P. Alejandro Lopez-Valencia)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:50:37 -0500
Subject: SF vs. Lynx (was Re: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org> <uvgbzqto6.fsf@python.net> <a6q9lj$ce7$1@panix1.panix.com> <7xr8mnfdke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <a6qd3o$lan$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6qrjd$glt4f$1@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>

"Aahz" <aahzpy at panix.com> escribi? en el mensaje
news:a6qd3o$lan$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <7xr8mnfdke.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
> Paul Rubin  <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
> >aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz) writes:
> >>
> >> OTOH, I still can't submit my stupid bug report AFAICT.  Is there
anyone
> >> who uses Lynx to access SF?
> >
> >Yes, I do sometimes.
>
> Have you ever submitted a bug report using Lynx?  If yes, what version
> are you using?
>
> To people who have suggested other text-mode browsers: my experience is
> that they don't support the vi-like functionality that Lynx does, which
> makes them difficult to use.

I think you need some sort of javascript support enabled in lynx for it to
work correctly with SF's submission forms. It is not impossible see

    http://www.bbassett.net/njs/

for a js 1.2 interpreter and embeddable library.




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 23:17:16 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:17:16 -0500
Subject: question: python and UDP
References: <a7m5i4$6eb$1@news3.bu.edu> <3C9E9CFD.AC6A149B@engcorp.com> <a7m7bo$a4q$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <3C9EA4CC.1208750A@engcorp.com>

ricky wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > ricky wrote:
> > >
> > > I am trying to write a python program to connect to a proxy server which
> > > takes the following header:
> > > however, the proxy server doesn't seem to understand the header i sent
> > > to it.
> >
> > Are you looking for the 'struct' module?  That should be enough to
> > produce the header format you need.

> how would i use the struct module?

Well, you could start by looking at the documentation on it, and
asking specific questions to clarify any misunderstanding that
remains.  If you don't know where to look for the documentation,
feel free to ask.

If you post some sample code which you've tried, we can probably
explain why the "server doesn't seem to understand the header"
you sent it, and if you try using struct and still have trouble,
post samples of your efforts and we can work on improving those.

(You haven't given enough info yet for anyone to just write
the code for you, even though there are likely people here
who would be happy to do that.  I'm generally not one of them.)

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 22:15:08 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:15:08 -0500
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
References: <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list@python.org> <7x3czc87qq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3C882CBC.4553D21C@engcorp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> stefan antoni <sasoft at gmx.de> writes:
> > sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know the
> > name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
> > problem is also in german.
> 
> Usually we call it the "Monty Hall problem".  Monty Hall was the host
> of a TV game show where he actually played that game (put a prize behind
> one of three doors, etc).

See also http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MontyHallProblem for full discussion.

-Peter


From remi at abcweb.nl  Fri Mar 29 15:41:07 2002
From: remi at abcweb.nl (Remi Turk)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:41:07 +0100
Subject: The OOM-Killer vs. Python
In-Reply-To: <7934d084.0203252337.4e0e1325@posting.google.com>; from amuys@shortech.com.au on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 11:37:37PM -0800
References: <3c9e2b5f.9993062@news.t-online.de> <Xns91DBED451517cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <a7msbn$110t$1@news.idiom.com> <7934d084.0203252337.4e0e1325@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020329214107.A324@localhost>

Hi everybody,

Excuse me my late reply. I'm fighting a few thousand
messages from various mailing lists ATM ;-)

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 11:37:37PM -0800, Andrae Muys wrote:
> The problem with not overcommitting is that system calls are
> signifigantly slower then function calls, so malloc libraries normally
> block allocate memory to save reduce the number of syscalls made. 

Wrong AFAIK.
The problem with not overcommiting is that a lot of programs
allocate large amounts of memory without ever using it.
IOW, without overcommitting you won't be able to run a process
which allocates 500mb of memory and then uses only 10 bytes.
(Which, sadly enough, happens)

IIRC, the overcommit flag is used to determine whether a program
may allocate more than the total memory in the system.
For example, if you have 1G RAM and 1G swap, you normally
cannot allocate 2G + 1 byte. If you change the overcommit flag,
you can...

Happy Hacking

	Remi

-- 
See the light and feel my warm desire,
Run through your veins like the evening sun
It will live but no eyes will see it,
I'll bless your name before I die.

Key fingerprint = CC90 A1BA CF6D 891C 5B88  C543 6C5F C469 8F20 70F4
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From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Sat Mar 23 07:43:51 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:43:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <slrna9ou47.ajb.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico at aries.logilab.fr>, Nicolas Chauvat wrote:
>Hello Pythonistas,
>
>I'd like to entertain you with a new subject: logic programming and
>constraint-propagation features in Python.
[...]
>I am looking for interested people to form a Logic-SIG or CLP-SIG.
>You think this is a great idea? You think this is stupid? Please
>speak up! If you have no idea what I am talking about, don't worry,
>I'll try to post an example here this week-end.
>
>Waiting for your comments.

Go for it!

Logic programming (or even something similar, with implicit
backtracking etc.) would be very nice to have, IMO. The backtracking
stuff itself ought to be easy to implement (efficiently, even) with
generators.

(So, yes, I'm interested :)

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar 25 14:06:42 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:06:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.1016859396.28725.python-list@python.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On 24 Mar 2002 00:14:00 +0100, Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> >> To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
>> >> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.
>> 
>> Is the source for this available?
>
>It's in the CVS.

Is it very new?  I've got a cvs copy a few weeks old, and it's not there.

~/src/python$ find -iname 'ht*'
./dist/src/Doc/html
./dist/src/Doc/tools/html2texi.pl
./dist/src/Lib/HTMLParser.py
./dist/src/Lib/htmlentitydefs.py
./dist/src/Lib/htmllib.py
./dist/src/Lib/httplib.py
./dist/src/Mac/Build/HtmlRender.prj
./dist/src/Mac/Demo/html.icons
./dist/src/Mac/Demo/waste/htmled.py
./dist/src/Mac/Modules/htmlrender
./dist/src/Mac/Modules/htmlrender/HtmlRendermodule.c
./dist/src/Mac/Modules/htmlrender/htmlscan.py
./dist/src/Mac/Modules/htmlrender/htmlsupport.py
./dist/src/Tools/pynche/html40colors.txt
./nondist/sandbox/Lib/httpx.py
./nondist/sandbox/doctools/htmldoc.py

Huaiyu


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar 19 06:57:20 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?windows-1252?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:57:20 -0800
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELKOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3C9727A0.2030402@bigfoot.de>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Michael Hudson]
> 
>>I would ask those of you with access to the more
>>unusual platforms (i.e. not Linux/x86, Win32/x86) to run test_math in
>>verbose mode
> 
> 
> [Gerhard H?ring]
> 
>>How would I do that?
> 
> 
> python Lib/test/test_math.py
 > [...]
> The last part ("exceptions") isn't normally run.  If it's unhappy, it will
> blow up (raise some sort of exception).

That's why I asked. I get this:

bash-2.05$ ../../python test_math.py
math module, testing with eps 1e-05
constants
acos
asin
atan
atan2
ceil
cos
cosh
exp
fabs
floor
fmod
frexp
hypot
ldexp
log
log10
modf
pow
sin
sinh
sqrt
tan
tanh
exceptions
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "test_math.py", line 195, in ?
     test_exceptions()
   File "test_math.py", line 192, in test_exceptions
     raise TestFailed("sqrt(-1) didn't raise ValueError")
test_support.TestFailed: sqrt(-1) didn't raise ValueError
bash-2.05$ ../../python
Python 2.2.1c1 (#2, Mar 19 2002, 03:54:46)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import math
 >>> math.sqrt(-1)
NaN
 >>>

Guess that's normal? I get the same with Python 2.2 on FreeBSD. Python 
2.1 raises an OverflowError instead.

Gerhard




From gmcm at hypernet.com  Fri Mar 22 12:13:41 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:13:41 -0500
Subject: ANN: Installer 5b3 (bug fix release)
Message-ID: <3C9B1FF5.25911.577878D@localhost>

Announcing version 5b3 of Installer:

 http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/installer_dnld.html

This is a bug fix release. Fixed:
 - import lock to prevent clashes between threads
 - reload implemented
 - ability to gather .pyo's
 - ability to set Py_OptimizeFlag
 - fixed a buffer overflow in a debug statement

Platforms:
  Windows
  Linux
  Unix (relying on volunteers)

Python versions:
  tested with Python 1.5 to 2.2

What is it:
  The Installer package is any easy way to deploy
   Python apps to systems without Python installed 
   (or with incompatible Pythons installed).

   Installer support single-file and single-directory
   deployments. On Windows, Installer supports
   COM, including in-process COM servers.
 
License:
  MIT style.

Contact:
  gmcm at hypernet.com

<P><A HREF="http://www.mcmillan-
inc.com/installer_dnld.html">Installer 
Release 5b3</A>Easy Python app deployment. (22-Mar-
2002).


-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar  7 21:36:46 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:36:46 +1300
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <mailman.1015492214.3907.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8823BE.442A5EA8@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Bj?rn Lindberg <d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se> wrote:

> Now imagine two resources where one depends on
> the other:
>
> void a_function ()
> {
>       sentry1 s1;
>       sentry2 s2;
>       ...
> }

In Python, reference counting usually sorts this kind
of thing out. If resource2 depends on resource1
somehow, then resource2 probably contains a reference to
resource1, so resource1 will not be freed before
resource2. Sentry objects are not needed, just
keep references to the resources you're using and
drop them when you're finished.

e.g.

  def a_function():
    r1 = get_resource1()
    r2 = get_resource2(r1) # keeps a reference to r1
    do_something()
    # When we return, reference counts on r1 and r2
    # are decremented. It doesn't matter what order
    # this happens in, because r2 also holds a reference
    # to r1, so they can't get freed in the wrong order.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Mar 24 20:44:44 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:44:44 -0800
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017014199.17554.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7lvoi$mahs5$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

brueckd at tbye.com
> >>> lo, hi = 1, 3
> >>> [x/2 + 0.1*(x%2) for x in xrange(lo*2, (hi+1)*2)]
>

Which, after only a few moments of inverse re-factorization as per YP*
practice, devolves into:

>>> [round(map(float, [int(x/2) + 0.1*(int(x%2))])[0]*10)/10.
        for x in map(int,xrange(lo*2, (hi+1)*2))]

* something had to come before XP...  ;-)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From narnett at mccmedia.com  Fri Mar 22 20:10:55 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:10:55 -0800
Subject: sgmlParser infinite loop?  How to empty and re-user parser object?
In-Reply-To: <3C9BC9E5.89AE2D1F@3captus.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJEECKJMAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----


> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Bernard Yue

[snip]

> My record is 1300 web pages and I did not get the problem you've
> mentioned.

I was getting it sometimes every dozen or two documents, but... I realized I
wasn't calling reset properly -- I was leaving off the empty parentheses,
which produces no error, but doesn't actually reset the object, apparently.
That seems to have improved things considerably, but not completely.

> I am not reusing the parser object in my script either (but you can).
> You should consider post the program fragment you used.

I will if I'm really stuck.  But cutting out enough to reproduce the error
is a bit of a challenge, if it's still going to work when I'm done.  On the
other hand, the exercise itself might uncover the problem.

Thanks!

Nick




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 17:51:19 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:51:19 +0000
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <a6mpda$79e$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

James A Roush wrote:

> Does anyone have any code that, given that absolute URL of a web page, can
> convert all the relative URLs on that page to their absolute equivalent?

Assuming absolute is a string and relative_list a list of strings, the 
followinng comes to mind:

[absolute+'/'+relative for relative in relative_list]

Maybe you wanted something fancier, don't know.

f


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Mar 29 15:37:41 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 12:37:41 -0800
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com> <hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <c76ff6fc.0203281829.6e2cf785@posting.google.com> <0_Zo8.16784$Ou.11910@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1017410389.28258.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203291237.55b12e86@posting.google.com>

"Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017410389.28258.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Writing a class to simulate a dictionary with default value is simple,
> and left as an exercise for the reader :-)
> 

Unfortunately when building a dictionary of frequencies this approach
takes about 2.6x the clock() time of the best non-subclassing
approach, dropping down to 2.3x if you have a specialised subclass
with a hard-coded default value (see below).

Even more unfortunately the subclassing approach penalises *ALL*
__getitem__ accesses -- after building a dict of frequencies, you
don't need/want the default any longer when accessing the dict, but
with the subclassing approach, you're stuck with it unless you come up
with some pas-devant-les-enfants hack like replacing the __getitem__
method in mid-stream.

# best subclassing approach
class Defdict0(dict):
   def __getitem__(self, key):
      return self.setdefault(key, 0)
def build_freq_8(wlist):
   freq = Defdict0()
   for word in wlist:
      freq[word] = freq[word] + 1
   return freq

# best non-subclassing approach
def build_freq_5(wlist):
   freq = {}
   freq_has_key = freq.has_key
   for word in wlist:
      if freq_has_key(word):
         freq[word] = freq[word] + 1
      else:
         freq[word] = 1
   return freq

wlist is a list of strings matching [A-Za-z][A-Za-z]+ in the order
they were extracted from files.

Yes, the += caper is actually very slightly slower.
Yes, the has_key() approach actually beats the get() approach (1.05x)
and the try/except approach() (1.3x). Full details on request.
Roadtests done on an AMD Athlon processor running win32 Python 2.2.0
with -O. YMMV. Above relative times are based on a case with 1.8M
surname and given-name words (174K unique i.e. each word appears 10.4
times on average but the distribution is very skewed). Cases with a
much higher average frequency would probably tend to favour the
try/except approach.


From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Sat Mar  9 19:55:39 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:55:39 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news> <3C8AA5E4.982FC689@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <3c8aae24.156616153@news>

I knew your name was familiar! I'm reading your book right now.
It's excellent. VB for one, returns a proper rounded result on these
recalcitrant numbers. I'd be willing to bet that C can do it as well,
but you should know better than I.

The problem is that I am trying to use the return value of round() as
the return value of another function, so using Print to tidy it uup
really doesn't do me any good. Any suggestions?

BR

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:37 GMT, Erik de Castro Lopo
<nospam at mega-nerd.com> wrote:

>brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
>> 
>> I understand the problem of rounding errors with binary numbers.
>> However, the rounding functions of other languages  work around it and
>> return a usable result. What have they got that Python hasn't got?
>
>Possibly other scripting languages have a feature which includes the
>current printing representation with the floating point object. This
>would however surprise me somewhat.
>
>Have you tried that specific example with other languages? I looked
>at Perl and it doesn't have a round function. Apparently the preferred
>method in Perl is sprintf ("%.2f", 56.78923) which returns a string
>instead of a float.
>
>Once a float is represented as a string you get the behviour you are
>after.
>
>> ps -- your name is very familiar. i think i've read one of your books.
>
>I only have one, "SAMs Teach yourself C for Linux Programming in 21 days".
>I also have a couple of Free Software packages out there.
>
>Erik
>-- 
>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>"If dolphins are so smart, why do they live in igloos?" -Eric Cartman



From gwachob at wachob.com  Sun Mar 10 00:31:42 2002
From: gwachob at wachob.com (Gabriel Wachob)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 21:31:42 -0800
Subject: PyBEEP Project
Message-ID: <4e72770c.0203092131.457ad7@posting.google.com>

Just a reminder (or a notice!) that the PyBEEP project (open source
implementation of BEEP in Python) is marching forward and would like
any help anybody would like to give.

The project is hosted at sourceforge.

http://pybeep.sf.net

     -Gabe


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 18 18:27:44 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:27:44 +1100
Subject: A question about generators
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A21E@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> I have an application where I think either an iterator or a 
> generator would
> be ideal, but I have to be able to reset whichever I use.  The paper
> "What's New in Python 2.2" says that there's no way to reset 
> an iterator,
> so that's out.  Is there a straight-forward way to reset a generator,
> though?

That's not actually correct. There is no general way to reset and iterator
or generator, but you can make a custom iterator or generator that can be
reset.

Tim Delaney



From gimbo at ftech.net  Fri Mar  8 09:33:46 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:33:46 +0000
Subject: threads killing other threads
In-Reply-To: <a6aff0$93e$1@news.mathworks.com>
References: <1013105970.135322@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <3C62E0D5.99C586DF@ccvcorp.com> <mailman.1013115694.5377.python-list@python.org> <a6aff0$93e$1@news.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <20020308143346.GH9526@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:48:16PM +0000, Joshua Marshall wrote:
> If outright killing is disallowed, I'd still like to see the ability
> for one thread to cause an exception to be thrown in another.
> Currently you can do this to the main thread (on UNIX) by using
> process signals.

You could always "roll it yourself" by having a threading.Event object
shared between the threads - one thread sets the event to tell the
other to raise an exception/exit/stop processing/whatever.

Or here's a mad idea...  You could have a Queue.Queue object shared
between the threads, and the first thread could create an Exception
object of whatever class it wanted raised (ie not raise it itself,
just create the instance) , pass _that_ through the queue, and have
the other thread raise it.  Why you'd want to do this I'm not sure,
but it _would_ work, wouldn't it?  Er, I think.

Of course, both of these ideas mean the second thread has to have some
mechanism for checking the Event or Queue, which may be more work than
it's worth.

Just thinking with my keyboard...  :-)

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 25 18:58:14 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 00:58:14 +0100
Subject: Is it really so difficult to enable Tkinter?
References: <f6e6d4dd.0203251458.25ded181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m31ye88ajt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bmeerdnk at telekabel2.nl (Bart Meerdink) writes:

> I tried again, installed the tck/tk 8.3.3 headers, did configure,
> edited Modules/Setup (paragraph about tkinter, guessing what I should
> change there), crossed my fingers, and continued with make and (as
> root) make install. Success!
> 
> But I cannot believe this is the intended way.

No. You can skip the step where you edit Modules/Setup, since setup.py
should find the location of the headers itself. Everything else is as
intended; crossing the fingers is optional.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 08:55:45 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:55:45 -0500
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <3C82F9F0.2A2DBF16@engcorp.com> <3C82FD24.122E16B3@engcorp.com> <8fc4b19e.0203040151.de463c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C837CE1.70B74D7C@engcorp.com>

Brian wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3C82FD24.122E16B3 at engcorp.com>...
> > Oops, sorry.  That sounds a little callous.  I really just meant
> > to give a response similar to my "programmers always try to optimize
> > when they don't really need to" diatribe.
> 
> I originally meant to ask a question more along the lines of "what is
> the most pythonic way of doing this."  Then I decided all that extra
> typing in my message was suboptimal.  Was that something that didn't
> really need optimization?  <cough>

Your first effort looked very Pythonic to me. :-)


From edream at tds.net  Tue Mar  5 10:22:51 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:22:51 GMT
Subject: Patch: clearing breakpoints in IDLE
Message-ID: <3C84E2C9.8DC206B4@tds.net>

Hi all:

I am beginning to think that IDLE's debugger suffers from a vicious
cycle:

1. Nobody uses IDLE's debugger, so
2. Nobody complains about its glaring deficiencies, so
3. Nothing gets fixed, so (back to one)

OTOH, it's great fun to be able to hack on IDLE so easily.  Maybe Guido
doesn't want to deprive us all of that fun ;-)

To help break this cycle, I offer the following patch that lets the user
of IDLE clear breakpoints in exactly the same way that they are set,
that is, by right-clicking a source line containing a breakpoint.

(I've inserted backslashes so this doesn't get line-breaked to death.)

1. In PyShell.py, add the following two lines, indicated by # EKR:

    def __init__(self, *args):
        apply(EditorWindow.__init__, (self,) + args)
        self.text.bind("<<set-breakpoint-here>>",\
            self.set_breakpoint_here)
        self.text.bind("<<clear-this-breakpoint>>",\
            self.clear_this_breakpoint) # EKR
        self.text.bind("<<open-python-shell>>", self.flist.open_shell)

    rmenu_specs = [
        ("Set breakpoint here", "<<set-breakpoint-here>>"),
        ("Clear this breakpoint", "<<clear-this-breakpoint>>"), # EKR
    ]

2. In PyShell.py, add the following new method:

    def clear_this_breakpoint(self, event=None):
        if not self.flist.pyshell or \
            not self.flist.pyshell.interp.debugger:
            self.text.bell()
            return
        self.flist.pyshell.interp.debugger.clear_this_breakpoint(self)

3. In Debugger.py, add the following new method:

    def clear_this_breakpoint(self, edit):
        text = edit.text
        filename = edit.io.filename
        if not filename:
            text.bell()
            return
        lineno = int(float(text.index("insert")))
        msg = self.clear_break(filename, lineno)
        if msg:
            text.bell()
            return
        text.tag_remove("BREAK", "insert linestart", \
            "insert lineend+1char")

I believe that's all there is to it.

Aside 1: Unlike the set_breakpoint_here routine, the call to
self.clear_break in clear_this_breakpoint calls the method of the super
class, i.e., the Bcb class.  I don't understand why Debugger.py bothers
to create a set_break method.  Indeed this comment is strange:

# A literal copy of Bdb.set_break() without the print statement at the
end

There is no print statement in Bdb.set_break in v2.1.

Aside 2: In PyShell.py, it seems silly just to ring a bell in
set_breakpoint_here if the debugger hasn't been opened by the user.  How
about opening it for her?  Like this:

    def set_breakpoint_here(self, event=None):
        if not self.flist.pyshell or \
            not self.flist.pyshell.interp.debugger:
            if 1: # EKR: Try to open debugger automatically.
                self.flist.pyshell.toggle_debugger()
                if not self.flist.pyshell or \
                    not self.flist.pyshell.interp.debugger:
                    self.text.bell()
                    return
            else: # old way
                self.text.bell()
        self.flist.pyshell.interp.debugger.set_breakpoint_here(self)

This seems to work for me.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 21:25:57 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:25:57 GMT
Subject: Setting UNIX environment with a Python script
References: <3C8D143A.17963385@all.com> <B59j8.19604$N7.4435538@ruti.visi.com> <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649@zip.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrna8qpqb.16e.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649 at zip.com.au>, Cameron Hutchison wrote:

> What you need to do instead is have your python program print on stdout
> the name of the ora_env file to source. Then you invoke your python
> script from your shell login script like this (bourne style shell
> assumed):
> 
> eval "source ora_env.`get_ora_name`"

Another common method is to have your Python program write the
shell commands to stdout, then execute them with something like

eval `myPythonProgram`

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm having fun
                                  at               HITCHHIKING to CINCINNATI
                               visi.com            or FAR ROCKAWAY!!


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Mar 20 14:08:07 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:07 GMT
Subject: error:"_imaging C module is not installed"
References: <3C989278.9189857C@helicon.net>
Message-ID: <r65m8.26433$n4.5178537@newsc.telia.net>

Rodney Loisel wrote:

> Have 2 files (_imaging.pyd and _imagingtk.pyd) which I assume are the
> C imagaging modules and have put copies of them in all the directories
> that they might be accessed in

for some more clues, try this:

c:> python -v
Python 2.2.1c1 ...
>>> import _imaging

and see what happens.

</F>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Mar 27 12:54:50 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:54:50 -0500
Subject: instrumenting Python code
References: <1010a26.0203262213.4a0d4b11@posting.google.com> <3CA16839.1A21E36A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017234342.12592.python-list@python.org> <a7svvf$btf$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7Ino8.23465$cB5.19542@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:a7svvf$btf$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <mailman.1017234342.12592.python-list at python.org>,
> Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >Or, in 2.2, the new hotshot module, which is a lot more efficient at
> >profiling than the profile module.
>
> Where is hotshot?  I don't see it anywhere.  It's not even on the Vaults
> of Parnassus.

It's built in:

PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import hotshot
>>>

regards
 Steve






From l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com  Sat Mar  9 09:16:07 2002
From: l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:16:07 GMT
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <3C895594.60601@sneakemail.com> <mailman.1015651216.11448.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C89DF58.9080304@sneakemail.com>

Chris Gonnerman wrote:

> Yeah, but "major" language standards change every few years... Python
> releases come about 1-2 per year.  We have to resist the urge to change
> something major in the core too frequently.
> 


   The standards may only change every few years, if you don't count 
Java as a "major" language, but all the vendors of implementations for 
those languages I've ever dealt with release patches at the rate of 1-2 
per year, or more frequently.  Even the COBOL vendors.  And every patch 
release that fixes something stands a chance of breaking something else 
(even if only code that worked around the old improper behavior).  Shops 
that really care about that and have no viable regression test strategy 
upgrade less frequently, and if they ship software make sure that they 
ship exactly what's needed to run their product (no easy task on 
Windows, thanks to dll hell).  My experience is that shops that take the 
conservative approach (even mainframe shops) eventually end up throwing 
out working systems because the exact compiler version that they rely on 
fall off the vendor's support list and it becomes too painful to upgrade 
through multiple releases.  And in Microsoft shops insult is added to 
injury when you have to pay to upgrade to something that will break your 
existing code.

   But nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying "upgrade or 
die"--and unlike with closed source compilers, if you're bound and 
determined never to move off 1.5.2 you have the source code so you can 
continue to maintain it unto as-yet-undreamed-of platforms and 
architectures.  Equally true is that nobody is likely to agree to do 
this maintenance for you for free.

As for me, I've yet to see a change to Python since 1.5.2 that I regard 
as "major" in terms of incompatibility with existing, working code 
(plenty of new features for what used to be invalid syntax) that you 
didn't have to explicitly enable with a __future__ statement, and in 
that case there was a whole release in between where you could test with 
either behavior.

I can understand people taking a more conservative approach, but then I 
lose them when they say they should build a sub-community around the 
inviolability of a particular old release.  And do what?  Sit around 
looking at the old source code and say "Yep, we're not going to change 
that"?  The obvious approach to me is that if you're not prepared, for 
whatever reason, to upgrade: don't upgrade.  If you are serious about 
distributing a stable working system: distribute the whole system, 
interpreter and library included.

   Joshua



From cce at clarkevans.com  Mon Mar 11 11:50:16 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:50:16 -0500
Subject: equivalent of "export" (changing parent's environment)
Message-ID: <20020311115016.A35060@doublegemini.com>

Hello.  I have two shell scripts, a.sh and b.sh such
that a.sh calls b.sh, and b.sh uses "export key=value"
to set some defaults used later on in a.sh.

I'm now converting b.sh to python, and I can't change
a.sh easily... so I'm wondering if there is a way to
export environment variables from Python?  I've read
the documentation and see os.environ and os.putenv 
only affect the current (and sibling process) environment.

Is there an equivalent to "export" in Python?

Thanks!

Clark



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Mar  7 19:31:34 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:31:34 -0500
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org><6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> <mailman.1015517623.2914.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u8g1dbkklg9i18@news.supernews.com>

"Justin Sheehy" <justin at iago.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015517623.2914.python-list at python.org...
> Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> writes:
>
> > Do we really want all of these new behaviors?
>
> No.  Please, no.
>
> I still don't see what this proposal provides in terms of a real gain
> in order to offset the obvious potential for ugliness, mistakes, and
> the appearance of ambiguity.
>
> Not having to type "range" or "xrange" doesn't count as a real gain.
>
> The PEP describes having to use range in this context as a wart, but I
> don't remember it ever being referred to as such before this PEP.

I suspect whether it is or not depends on your frame of reference,
that is, what languages you came from. My background includes
Fortran long before anybody ever thought of C, so to me the for loop
is slightly bizzare: iteration over a monotonic sequence of integers
should be simpler. Python implements a much more useful general
case, at the expense of making the special case a bit more difficult.

I'm against the proposal, simply on the basis that I don't find
5.iter to have a blindingly obvious meaning. It's ok if you explain
it, but it's still not obvious that it's anything but a special case
hack.

Range (and xrange) at least have the advantage that, once
explained, they fit into the scheme of things nicely.

John Roth
>
> -Justin
>
>
>
>




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 18 12:42:18 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:42:18 -0600
Subject: Digest Number 868
In-Reply-To: <20020318181448.A970@wood.mcgraw.org>
References: <1016408215.641.83517.m12@yahoogroups.com>
        <20020318181448.A970@wood.mcgraw.org>
Message-ID: <15510.9978.53152.494573@beluga.mojam.com>

    Garret> Does any know a good way to talk to a mysql database besides
    Garret> depending on the fact that the computer might happen to have
    Garret> that mysql module installed?  I guess I could just figure out
    Garret> how the protocol works and access it by opening a socket to it
    Garret> and interpert what it gives me...... but I would like to know if
    Garret> someone has already done that and see if i could download it.

I think that nobody in their right mind in this group would have done that,
since the MySQL people already provide a free client library to allow C
programs (and programs that can call C functions) to talk to the server
without understanding anything about the protocol.  The mysql-python stuff
layers on top of that.  The MySQL developers probably view their
client-server protocol as not part of the public interface, so even if you
managed to write a raw socket interface you'd be at the mercy of changes to
the protocol whenever the remote server was upgraded.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 13 20:40:20 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:40:20 -0500
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
In-Reply-To: <a6ossg$hu7$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEDBOEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bengt Richter (maybe)]
> If your lists are really long (O(100,000) or more?) then you might find
> that the append starts taking too long -- append is asymptotically
> O(n**n) whoa! can that be true?

No, theoretical worst case is O(n**2).  (1 + 2 + 3 + ... + n == ?)

[Andrew Dalke]
> Yes, it's true.

Only when the sky is falling too <wink>.

> This comes up on the list about once every six months or so.  As I
> recall, Python's standard lists grow by 10 elements at a time for
> small lists (less than 500 in length), then 100 at a time for larger
> lists.

That used to be true, but over-allocation is always proportional to list
size now.  This had most benefit on assorted Windows flavors (which don't
act alike in this respect).  It made no difference at all on some assorted
Unixish systems (append often enough and it may get reassigned to its own
mmap'ed region; or it may get moved to the sbrk limit so that further
appends "just" bump the high-water VM mark without physical movement).

> ...
> Insertions and deletions are also linear in the length of the list.

They're linear in the length of the list following the insert/delete
position.

> Yes, we all know there are better ways to deal with this, for different
> people's definition of the meaning "better."  It isn't going to change
> in Python.

Fast constant-time (modulo cache effects) random access is Python's chief
goal for Python lists.

> Best I think would be a standard module of data structures (priority
> queue, doubly-linked lists, stack, etc.)  But it hasn't bothered
> me enough to go ahead and do it.

Guido doesn't go for this kind of thing:  the more "advanced" the data
structure, the more specialized variants it sprouts, and there aren't enough
volunteers to maintain the ever-bulging code across all the platforms Python
runs on.




From edcjones at erols.com  Tue Mar 26 23:25:01 2002
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:25:01 -0500
Subject: C API for modules
References: <3CA09F43.80206@erols.com> <c76ff6fc.0203261556.3cfd003@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1499D.4070802@erols.com>

John Machin wrote:
> "Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message news:<3CA09F43.80206 at erols.com>...
> 
>>Is there some simple way to call functions in modules from C? In 
>>particular, for module struct, how do I call pack, unpack, and calcsize?
>>
> 
> 
> OK, I'll be the bunny and ask the obvious(?) meta-question:
> 
> Give that the struct module is designed for Python callers to
> pack/unpack C structs (laboriously), why bother? Why not just
> manipulate the structs in C??

So I should use PyString_FromStringAndSize in C and struct.unpack in 
Python or struct.pack in Python and PyString_AsStringAndSize in C.



From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 20 12:41:08 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:41:08 +0000
Subject: Python2.2 Installation
In-Reply-To: <jjb5-244142.12302820032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <jjb5-244142.12302820032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <20020320174108.GJ18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:30:28PM -0500, python-list-admin at python.org wrote:
> I downloaded and almost installed Python 2.2 from the Python-2.2.tgz 
> release on SF by doing the 'usual "gunzip; tar; configure; make" dance'.  
> I now have a Python-2.2 directory which seems to work by itself.

[snip]

> So how do I complete the installation so that Python2.2 is at least in 
> /usr/bin?  How do I replace the 1.5.2 installation that came 
> preinstalled (which is in /bin)?

make install

?

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From newsfroups at jerf.org  Mon Mar 25 01:19:46 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:19:46 GMT
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324115311.0457dbb8@202.95.131.154> <mailman.1017031538.14132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9EC15A.3030103@jerf.org>

Tripp Scott wrote:
> thanks for the tip. actually, the essence of what i wanted to ask was: 
> "can that SOMETHING be a list of more than one elements which will be 
> _flatly_ added to the result list." as another example, can i generate 
> this list
> 
>  [1,1  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4]

The closest thing I can get is something like this:

[x+float(y)/10 for x in range(10) for y in range(x)]

where the second for statement depends on the first.

How about examples of real input and real output you want? And why are 
you asking specifically about list comprehensions? (Are you just trying 
to learn about them?) If you're trying to solve a real problem, they may 
not be the best solution. (Though the odds are good.).



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Mar  9 06:31:11 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 03:31:11 -0800
Subject: Turn string into function call
References: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com> <E58i8.17062$N7.3653694@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <a6crpv$f6d$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <E58i8.17062$N7.3653694 at ruti.visi.com>,
Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>In article <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec at posting.google.com>, N Becker wrote:
>>
>> What's the best way to turn a string naming a function into a function call?
>> 
>> I used this:
>> eval (funcname + '()')
>
>This really ought to go into the FAQ.  It's been asked (and
>answered) at least 3 times in the past week or so.

Okay, here's a proposed FAQ entry, for section 4:

How do I convert a string to a function/method call?

There are two basic techniques:

* Use a dictionary pre-loaded with strings and functions.  The primary
advantage of this technique is that the strings do not need to match the
names of the functions.  This is also the primary technique used to
emulate a case construct:

    def a():
        pass

    def b():
        pass
    
    dispatch = {'go': a, 'stop': b}  # Note lack of parens for funcs

    dispatch[get_input()]()  # Note trailing parens to call function

* Use the built-in function getattr():

    import foo
    getattr(foo, 'bar')()

Note that getattr() works on any object, including classes, class
instances, modules, and so on.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 20 11:55:03 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:55:03 -0500
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
In-Reply-To: <slrna9hcja.m22.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECIOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Charl P. Botha]
> ...
> In anycase, I have a rather large software platform that reloads
> modules with classes all the time.  So, the platform itself keeps on
> running while I hack away at a new module; with every change I reload
> the module and my platform instantiates it AND I get to see the changes
> in action.  Test.  Modify.  Repeat.
>
> Maybe the complex/simple case classifier in my version of Python
> is buggy? ;)

Yes, and we're not going to fix it <wink>.

"The problem" is that modules are objects just like any other objects in
Python, and "import" does binding just like any other binding stmt.  When
module X does

import Y

X gains a module variable named "Y" bound to whatever module code was most
recently loaded for Y.  A subsequent reload(Y) *outside* of X can't change
the binding of X.Y -- within X, Y still refers to "the old" module object.
Ditto for things like "from Y import ClassA" inside X, of course -- no
matter what happens to Y, X.ClassA continues to refer to whatever Y.ClassA
mapped to at the time the import statement was executed.

There isn't a clear way to "fix this", in part because it's hard to come up
with a rigorous way to justify calling it "broken" to begin with:  the code
does what the Ref Man says it does, and that's just how objects and binding
statements work in Python.  In the same way, after doing

x = [1, 2, 3]
y = x

a later instance of

x = [3, 2, 1]

doesn't magically change the binding of y either.




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 11 17:15:07 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:15:07 -0600
Subject: nonblocking i/o on windows?
Message-ID: <15501.11371.105898.746698@beluga.mojam.com>

At the end of asyncore.py a non-blocking file_dispatcher class is defined
like so:

    class file_dispatcher (dispatcher):
        def __init__ (self, fd):
            dispatcher.__init__ (self)
            self.connected = 1
            # set it to non-blocking mode
            flags = fcntl.fcntl (fd, fcntl.F_GETFL, 0)
            flags = flags | os.O_NONBLOCK
            fcntl.fcntl (fd, fcntl.F_SETFL, flags)
            self.set_file (fd)

        def set_file (self, fd):
            self._fileno = fd
            self.socket = file_wrapper (fd)
            self.add_channel()

Unfortunately, this uses fcntl, which is only available on Unix systems.  Is
there something similar on Windows that will allow me to put a Python file
object in non-blocking mode?  I thought perhaps there would be something
defined in msvcrt, but I didn't see anything in the lib ref manual or the
msvcrt source.

Thx,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
"As often happens in Net communities, people find all kinds of energy to
compose incisive criticisms of the threads and postings of other members,
when they could be directing that energy towards brilliant new threads and
postings of their own." - Tom Neff



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 05:43:45 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:43:45 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <eppstein-508119.09361007032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8h5ev.ijc.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:36:10 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>In article <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
> philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:
>
>> How about:
>> 
>>    for i = 1 to 10:
>> 
>> or
>> 
>>    for i is 1 to 10:
>> 
>> I think these are both equally good and both much preferable over 
>> the horrible
>> 
>>    for 1 <= i <= 10:
>> 
>> which I can only assume is someone's sick idea of a joke.
>
>Your "1 to 10" syntax (and most other ideas floated previously on this 
>group) assumes a fixed type of interval (closed, I'm guessing, but it's 
>not clear), and not even the most common type (half-open).

Not sure what you mean here.

> The proposed 
>syntax makes explicit what would happen at the ends of the intervals.
>
>One alternative proposal, that didn't seem to have as much support but 
>might still be worth looking at, was to allow the creation of ranges by
>"1 <= ... <= 10" (possible without much modification of the compiler via 
>a clever enough definition of "...") so then one could do
>"for i in 1 <= ... <= 10".
>
>I would appreciate it if you could give me a more constructive criticism 
>of PEP 284 than "horrible", "someone's sick idea of a joke", which don't 
>give me much idea why you don't like it.

Thev reasdon i don't like it is that the syntax already has a 
meaning: to compare the magnitude of values. Now you are proposing 
another, totally different, meaning.

In a way what you are saying is (a <= b <= c) means return a list of
all the integer values of (b) that satisfy this statement.

But that isn't really true, because you can't do things like:

   a <= b*2 <= c

or:

   2 <= b and b*b <= c

etc.

So the system isn't fully general. In fact, its expressiveness is 
*less* than the existing range/xrange system, in which you can 
specify a step.

The onlyt problem with range/xrange, as I see it is that it always 
excludes the to-value, ie.

   range(0,3)

returns [0, 1, 2]

So perhaps it would be better if there were rangei/xrangei 
functions, such that:

   rangei(0,3)

returns [0, 1, 2, 3]

(Or has this been fixed in 2.2?)

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Mon Mar 25 10:38:55 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:38:55 -0300
Subject: Root access with python
In-Reply-To: <a7ndu9$bme$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <d906b2c1.0203250237.60f6ad12@posting.google.com> <7x663krjtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <a7ndu9$bme$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020325123855.A1716@ibook.distro.conectiva>

>>> On the terminal, you would do a 'su', type your password, then enter
>>> the command you wanted to run. How is this achieved within Python?
[...]
>>Instead, run "su" the usual way and type your password to get a root
>>shell, then launch your GUI app from the root shell.
> 
> Good advice.  Nevertheless, if Moray wants to shoot zirself in the foot,
> zie should take a look at os.setuid().

Fortunately, it's not that easy. os.setuid() is useful if you want to
drop privileges, not the other way around.

You have several options to do this, and all of them involve setting the
setuid bit in some executable. OTOH, setting setuid bit on scripts
usually doesn't work. If that's your case, you'll have to freeze your
script into a native executable, or build some kind of wrapper. Google
for "setuid bit scripts" for more information.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Wed Mar 13 09:34:12 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:34:12 +0100
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <a6nifr$eob$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <a6no10$frbs1$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:a6nifr$eob$1 at news.hccnet.nl...

<snip>

> On the other hand its entirely possible that the source of the
> confusion is something completely different.
>
> Anton.

IMHO, the OO paradigm can be summarized with:
- inheritance,
- polymorphism,
- encapsulation

If you see it like that, there is no possible confusion and Python is
undoubtedly OO !
I know that a discussion still exists about encapsulation. My opinion is
that Python classes clearly encapsulates instance data and consider us as
adults (no instance baby sitter hidden somewhere in the compiler or in the
interpreter).

And now, the only important question remains: are we able to write OO
applications ? I mean modular, reusable, maintainable, ... ones. The
language matters but the design makes the difference.

B.




From mcherm at destiny.com  Mon Mar 25 17:30:54 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:30:54 -0500
Subject: How to get a key from dictionary?
Message-ID: <3C9FA51E.5040008@destiny.com>

> Hi,
> Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key according to a 
> value ?
> For example
> I have a dictionary
> 
> dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}
> 
> and 
> dict['aa']
> is 1
> 
> But how can I for value 1 find out  key? (That is here  'aa')
> 
> Thank you for help
> Ladislav

Yes, you can get this information, but there are two things you should 
be careful of:
   1) The dictionary is designed so it is very fast to find the value
      for a given key. Finding the key for a given value will be much
      slower ( O(size-of-dictionary) to be specific ).
   2) Sometimes a dictionary will have MORE THAN ONE key with the SAME
      value. So maybe you want just any random key with that value, or
      perhaps you want ALL the keys with that value. I'll show how to do
      both.

Python 2.2c1 (#27, Dec 14 2001, 13:15:16) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
 >>> dict = {'aa': 1, 'bb':2, 'cc': 3, 'BB': 2}

 >>> def getSomeKeyForValue( dict, valueToFind ):
	"""Returns some random key with the given value, or
	throws KeyException"""
	for key, value in dict.iteritems():
		if value == valueToFind:
			return key
	raise KeyException()

 >>> getSomeKeyForValue( dict, 1)
'aa'
 >>> getSomeKeyForValue( dict, 2)
'BB'
 >>> getSomeKeyForValue( dict, 4)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#10>", line 1, in ?
     getSomeKeyForValue( dict, 4)
   File "<pyshell#7>", line 7, in getSomeKeyForValue
     raise KeyException()
NameError: global name 'KeyException' is not defined

 >>> def getAllKeysForValue( dict, valueToFind ):
	"""Returns a list of the keys in dict with the given
	value. If no value is found the list is of length 0."""
	answer = []
	for key, value in dict.iteritems():
		if value == valueToFind:
			answer.append(key)
	return answer

 >>> getAllKeysForValue( dict, 1 )
['aa']
 >>> getAllKeysForValue( dict, 2 )
['BB', 'bb']
 >>> getAllKeysForValue( dict, 4 )
[]


-- Michael Chermside




From b.follek at verizon.net  Sat Mar  9 06:30:40 2002
From: b.follek at verizon.net (Bob Follek)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:30:40 GMT
Subject: Tokenize a string or split on steroids
References: <4lpj8u4nbsoqjf2h4upadti62jh4sf4i59@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C89F25F.A560003F@verizon.net>

"Fernando Rodr?guez" wrote:
> 
> I need to tokenize a string using several separator characters, not just one
> as split().
> 
> For example, I want a function that returns ['one', 'two'] when given the
> string '{one}{two}' .
> 
> How can I do this? O:-)

Take a look at the re library module. For example:

>>> import re
>>> x = re.compile('\w+')
>>> x.findall('{one}{two}')
['one', 'two']

If you're unfamiliar with regular expressions, here's a good starting
point: http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/regex/regex.html


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 17:26:03 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:26:03 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-D9C64E.14260306032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
 Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

> Also the proposal takes a nice line-noise approach to it.  I want line noise,
> I'll use Perl or Brainfuck.

As a Teco programmer from a long time ago, I'm no longer interested in 
the aesthetic value of line noise.  Would it be adequate to summarize 
your criticism more politely: you think the proposed syntax is too 
terse, and would prefer something wordier?


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 14 19:31:46 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:31:46 -0800
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net> <3C8FB1E0.C0E0C6E7@mcn.net>
Message-ID: <3C9140F2.BF3C233@ccvcorp.com>


jrc wrote:

> The confusion is that this small point is completely
> overlooked in the documentation, including Fehily's
> book. A newcomer gets the impression that one starts
> the interpreter, THEN types 'python script.py', which
> leads to the errors I initially experienced.

While I can't speak for that particular book, and don't care to search the
Python docs at this time, I'm pretty sure that a distinction is made between
directing you to type at a command prompt (or maybe shell prompt), and
directing you to type in the interpreter.  It is quite likely, though, that
the difference between these is not made explicitly clear.  I would have
imagined that someone capable of installing python would understand that
"command prompt" (or equivalent phrase, e.g. "DOS prompt", "DOS box",
"console") means, in fact, to use the operating system's shell (DOS, bash,
cmd.exe, et. al.).  This *has* come up several times before, however.
Obviously, we can't do anything about the book, but perhaps the Python
tutorial should be reworded to make this distinction clear?  (If it's not
already -- the confusion may well result *only* from a book's wording, and
someone learning from a book is rather less likely to bother going through
the tutorial...)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 19 06:25:47 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:25:47 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <3C96F705.50908@skippinet.com.au> <m3g02whqao.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3C972048.9070105@skippinet.com.au>

Andrew Markebo wrote:
> | > For me on my windows 2000 machine, to get them into UTF-8 format I do
> | > something like:
> | > for filename in os.listdir():
> | >         utffilename=unicode(filename, "latin-1").encode("utf-8")
> | 
> |           utffilename=unicode(filename, "mbcs").encode("utf-8")
> 
> Hello!
> 
> So do I get it right now, reading it as mbcs ("Multibyte-character")
> will read all ntfs filenames correctly (as unicode defines it) into a
> unicode string?

This will work as long as the filename can be represented in your 
current code page.  If not, you will get a '?'.  Other comments in this 
thread point to a proposal to use Unicode objects making every file 
available regardless of your codepage.

> | > p.s.2 what is the status on win9x? Give it up or ;-)
> | 
> | I *think* it still works when accessing a Unicode aware file system
> | (ie, network)
> 
> What I want is to read a local file-name on a win9x fat/fat32 disk and
> be able to convert it into unicode.. And the other way around.
> 
> I will probably add a if windows9x do that, else if win2k do
> this.. ;-) Hmm how do I determine windows-version?

win32api.GetVersion(Ex)

Mark.



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 18:02:25 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:02:25 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (new proposal):
In-Reply-To: <cfcf4b0d.0203291435.d35e21c@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1017347282.22449.python-list@python.org>
	<cfcf4b0d.0203291435.d35e21c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020329150225.7efdaf2b.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 29 Mar 2002 14:35:25 -0800
Ken Peek wrote:

> branchon MyObject:
> 
>     [Object_1, Object_N, (99,98,MyVar), 42]:
>         # do something
>         # do more
>         fallthrough # (fall through to next clause body)
>     [[1,2,3], "hello", MyDynamicObject, MyList]:
>         # do something
>         # do more
> 
>     []:
>         # this matches if "MyObject" is an empty list
>         # do something
>         # do more
> 
>     else:
>         # we did not have any matching clauses
>         # do something
>         # do more
> 
> ==================================
> 
> OK-- please send in the next barrage of critisism...

OK ;)  /If/ a switch/case style test were to be added to Python, the
fallthrough should not be included.  Although not falling through by
default is better than having to explicitly not fall through (ala C), it
still makes the code less clear.  If there is common code to be shared
between cases, put it in a function.

I still feel that the need for this type of construct is unnecessary most
of the time.  Special-case code should be encapsulated within an object. 
Contrast the following:

switch type(object):
    int: 
        print "%d" % object
    str: 
        print "%s" % object
    list: 
        print "[",
        for i in object:
            print i,
        print "]"

with:

print object

Now which is cleaner?   I think the perceived need for this type of
construct is a holdover from thinking in other programming languages versus
thinking in Python.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From roy at panix.com  Fri Mar  8 09:03:06 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:03:06 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim at zope.com> wrote:
> Note that Guido wants to keep 2.3 free of new core language features.  You
> can deduce that from reading the essay, or-- like me --you can just believe
> it because it's true <wink>.  There's a huge backlog of good ideas for
> improving the internals and libraries, and I wouldn't be surprised to see
> the focus remain there for 2.4 too.

Not touching the core language is a Good Thing.    It's really tough to 
convince people that python is a viable tool when it's a moving target.  

It's been somewhat of an uphill battle to get my development group to 
accept the fact that I write tools for the whole group's use in python.  
Having the core language change from version to version just makes it 
worse, as we discover imcompatabilities between whatever version I'm using 
to develop on and whateve they're running on their boxes.  Telling people, 
"Oh, you need to upgrade to version X" gets old pretty fast.  As the saying 
goes, "if you're explaining, you've already lost."


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 18:25:09 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:25:09 -0500
Subject: Python quick setup URL for Linux setup?
Message-ID: <KUMp8.42208$1f1.3348682@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Can anyone point me to a fasttrack URL/doc for setting up Python on Linux
running KDE?  If it matters I'm using SUSE 7.3 Pro.

thx






From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Fri Mar 22 13:02:18 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:02:18 +0100
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <slrna9htdq.5dl.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C9A797E.E6476BEE@spam.nada.kth.se> <D_wm8.98888$1g.8095876@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B71AA.C485BF2C@spam.nada.kth.se>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> "Bj?rn Lindberg" <d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se> wrote in message

> > How come Python doesn't have an "automatic" this-variable, like C++
> or
> > Java?

<snip>
 
> If you mean requirement to say def meth(something, arg) instead of def
> meth(arg), compiler does not necesarily know when compiling whether
> function will be used as method or not.  (Methods can be defined
> outside of class statement and assigned as method later.)

Yes, this is what I meant. How does this work though, when assigning a
method to a class? I mean, let's say that you have a method taking two
arguments, concatenate (x, y). When assigning this method to a class,
will that mean that the first argument is always replaced by the class
instance, so I'd have to call it like this: aclass.concatenate (y), and
the first argument, x, will always correspond to aclass?


Bj?rn


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 17 03:56:52 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 09:56:52 +0100
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <m3d6y41e74.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1016327435.513664@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <m3sn6zpo6j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:

> Martin v. Loewis (martin at v.loewis.de) wrote:
> : In any case, the common understanding is that Python does not really
> : support threads on HP-UX, and probably never will unless some HP-UX
> : user who understands all the issues provides patches.
> 
> Still, I've been using threads with HP-UX 10.2 and Python 1.5.2 for months
> now.  (Maybe I haven't stressed it.)  Also, "make test" passed cleanly with
> HP-UX 11 and Python 2.2.  It seems to be the combination of HP-UX 10.2 and
> Python 2.2 that is causing trouble.

Yes, threads work well on HP-UX 11; for HP threw away the thread
implementation and rewrote it from scratch. I believe that the thread
library of HP-UX 10.20 has problems that also could be demonstrated
with Python 1.5 - it's only that the test suite of Python 1.5 does not
demonstrate them.

Regards,
Martin



From daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 15:43:30 2002
From: daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com (David Brady)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:43:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ooops, sorry, wrong list :-)
In-Reply-To: <AFE3FBA300B6F04282BE07949DB2E12303F3C7C6@TORINO.corp.es.com>
Message-ID: <20020329204330.12246.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry 'bout that...

-dB

=====
David Brady
daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com
I'm feeling very surreal today... or *AM* I?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/



From ellem at optonline.net  Wed Mar 27 17:04:34 2002
From: ellem at optonline.net (Lou Moran)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:04:34 GMT
Subject: I am Tarage your new ruler
References: <oIvn8.2201$kU2.261216@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <1eg4au4ntod5fe1u1eu91k51n8aovsn6gd@4ax.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:46:44 GMT, "Tarage" <ufr_tarage at yahoo.com>
wrote a glowing report about my Usenet practices:

>That's right you stupid, inbred, 

OK You win.  Can you write a Perl script to amend my sig?

--
Lou Moran
(P3 850)
Guinness _has_ affected this post 


From mmiller3 at iupui.edu  Wed Mar 13 13:24:50 2002
From: mmiller3 at iupui.edu (Michael A. Miller)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 13:24:50 -0500
Subject: python and analyze image format?
References: <87henkickf.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu> <a6o40j$5t7$1@rex.ip-plus.net>
Message-ID: <87adtciavh.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>

>>>>> "F" == F GEIGER <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:

    > Could PIL be what you are after? See www.pythonware.com

The version that I'm familiar with (1.1.2) does not support
analyze format.  Do you know if the commercial version does?

Mike


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar 17 19:08:41 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 00:08:41 GMT
Subject: how to set the background color of a window with curses
References: <20020309125336.GA2236@lurkabove.darkstar> <20020309164204.GB1466@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015708997.5233.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a73b69$fa$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1015708997.5233.python-list at python.org>, Marco Herrn wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 05:42:04PM +0100, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>> Le 09/03/02 ? 13:53, Marco Herrn ?crivit:
>>> Hi,

>>> I am trying to set a backround color for a window and did it with

>>> stdscr.bkgd(' ', curses.COLOR_BLUE)

>>> But that doesn't work. It seems to do nothing.
>>> What am I doing wrong?

>> You're confusing colors with attributes. I recently stumbled across that
>> one, too :)

> Hmm, that may be true.... ;)

>> This will do the trick:

>> # define color 1 as black on blue
>> curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_BLACK, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
>> stdscr.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))

> No, that doesn't work for me.
> The whole screen remains black. I get no error message and any text that
> is displayed with color_pair(1) is correctly displayed in black on blue.

> Am I missing something else?

>> Btw. there's a curses howto on http://py-howto.sf.net/ in case you
>> didn't know.

> Yes, I did read it. It is a good starting point, but unfortunately
> doesn't go over my problem ;)

 I don't think that the Python Curses HOWTO is a good starting point
 for curses, especially regarding the use of color in ncurses.  

 Here's a working example of color and attributes in curses:


#!/usr/bin/env python2.2
""" Curses Clock: draw a colorful clock in the center of a terminal 
    		      and update it every second. Quit on first keystroke
		Bugs: handles window change (SIGWINCH) crudely
			  abends (exit code 1) if not curses.has_colors(), no error message
			  mouse events are so totally not working! 
			  	(may be cause of segfault?)
	by James T. Dennis <jimd at starshine.org> 
	Sun Mar 17 15:06:52 PST 2002
"""
import curses, time, random, string, sys

def main(w):
	w.keypad(1)
	w.leaveok(1) 
	w.immedok(0)
	w.nodelay(1) 
	w.scrollok(0)
	w.erase()
	norm = curses.A_NORMAL
	bold = curses.A_BOLD
	dim  = curses.A_DIM
	if curses.has_colors():
		colorlist = (("red", curses.COLOR_RED), 
					 ("green", curses.COLOR_GREEN),
					 ("yellow", curses.COLOR_YELLOW),
					 ("blue", curses.COLOR_BLUE),
					 ("cyan", curses.COLOR_CYAN),
					 ("magenta", curses.COLOR_MAGENTA),
					 ("black", curses.COLOR_BLACK),
					 ("white", curses.COLOR_WHITE))
		colors = {}
		colorpairs = 0
		for name,i in colorlist:
			colorpairs += 1 
			curses.init_pair(colorpairs, i, curses.COLOR_BLACK)
			colors[name]=curses.color_pair(i)
	else: 
		sys.exit(1)
	## (mousecap, mouseold) = curses.mousemask(0)
	## (mousecap, mouseold) = curses.mousemask(mouseold | mousecap)

	tpart = { "day":	 0, "month": 4, "date":	 8, "hour":	11,
			   "min":	14, "sec":	17, "year":	21 }
	key = 0		
	while 1:
		if key == 0 or key == 410:	# 410 is from SIGWINCH?
			w.erase()
			y,x=w.getmaxyx()
			mid = y / 2 
			ctr = x / 2 
			t = time.asctime()
			ctr -=  len(t) / 2 
		### k = w.getkey()
		### Warning: previous line causes segfault!
		key = w.getch()
		## if key == 410: continue
		if key == ord('q') or key == ord('Q'): 
			break
		else: 
			w.addstr(0, 0, "\t%s\t" % key, colors["yellow"])
			### w.addstr(0, 0, "\t%s\t" % curses.keyname(k), colors["yellow"])
			### Warning: previous line causes segfault!
		t = time.asctime()
		w.addstr(mid,ctr+tpart["day"],  t[0:3],colors["blue"]    | norm)
		w.addstr(mid,ctr+tpart["month"],t[4:8],colors["blue"]    | dim)
		w.addstr(mid,ctr+tpart["date"], t[8:11],colors["blue"]   | bold)
		w.addstr(mid,ctr+tpart["hour"], t[11:14],colors["red"]   | dim)
		w.addstr(mid,ctr+tpart["min"],  t[14:17],colors["red"]   | bold)
		w.addstr(mid,ctr+tpart["sec"],  t[17:20],colors["green"] | dim)
		w.addstr(mid,ctr+tpart["year"], t[20:],colors["magenta"] | dim)
		time.sleep(1)
	return key
	
if __name__ == "__main__":
	x = curses.wrapper(main)
	print x


 This may not be efficient, but it shows the basics of handling color and
 attributes.  BTW: the "dim" attribute looks just like "normal" on my
 terminals (xterms and Linux console).  So that may not be useful in most 
 cases.

 As you can see it isn't at all clever about terminals that lack ncurses 
 color support, and it can't handle dynamic window size changes (SIGWINCH)

 Separately I'm playing with the signal module to see if I can add SIGWINCH
 support my own version of curses.wrapper.  (Although it seems that
 getch() returns 410 on window resize events). I've also been mentally
 playing with possible ways to create an enhanced curses.wrapper with
 support for passing arguments to main() and return values back from
 it.  (Of course I can simply create a global mutable "retval = []" and
 do an assignment to that prior to a return.  Actually it seems I can
 call: r = curses.wrapper(foo) and get the return value from foo().

 Also NOTE the two lines where I get python to segfault (this is 
 Python2.2 from Debian "Unstable") but it does it under 2.1, too.
 (It segfaults on any reference to curses.keyname OR w.getkey() 
 the two are orthogonal paths to the failure)

 There are still some things I don't understand about this.  
 The mouse stuff is completely opaque (and virtually undocumented).

> Bye
> Marco

> Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
                                                       ^^^ the first time




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar 11 14:45:42 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:45:42 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (fwd)
Message-ID: <OFA6C02834.F493473F-ON88256B79.006B6868@i2.com>

[David Mertz]
|"Gnosis XML Utilities" has 3100 lines (written largely by me,
|with various contributors).
|There are *4* uses of [x]range() in 'for' loops.  One is a test case
|that just uses 'range(500)' to do something "a bunch of times".

[James_Althoff at i2.com]
|I just did the same for a small section of our code.  My quick little scan
|turned up 293 uses of [x]range.
|Our mileage might be different from others because our use of Jython is
for
|large-scale, shipping, production-level, commercial applications rather
|than for small, throw-away scripts or core-language libraries.  Also (as
|mentioned) we use Jython and have to deal with tables

[David Mertz]
|My utility package is certainly not "throw-away scripts".  And while
|it is generally tested with CPython, there's no reason it shouldn't
|work equally well with Jython.  So some of that difference isn't
|really germane.

You are right.  There are more categories and possible factors.


|The issue about iterating through data tables might be the key.

I think so too.  What is key in particular is that the table components
were designed outside of Python and independent of Python's standard
conventions.


|But I think even then, my own style would generally not use range()
|iteration.
|
|For example, one might write (very simplified):
|
|    rows = dbquery(sql)
|    for i in range(len(rows)):
|        print i, rows[i]
|
|But I would probably approach this more like:
|
|    i = 0
|    for row in dbquery(sql):
|        print i, row
|        i += 1
|
|It feels cleaner to me to iterate through the actual collection,
|rather than numerically over its length... even if I am then interested
|keeping track of the number.

That is nice alternative *when* you can say
    row in table

But if your protocol is
    def getRowCount(): pass
    def getColumnCount(): pass
    def getValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
    def setValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
then that option is not available.

|If one fetches rows incrementally, I would
|still probably go for a 'while 1:' style.

That is an alternative.  It seems unfortunate to me that one would have to
drop back to a "while 1:" style when dealing with something so common and
fundamental as indices.  But that's just my opinion.

Jim Althoff
Senior Vice President
i2 Technologies, Inc.





From bkc at Murkworks.com  Sun Mar  3 12:14:19 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:14:19 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org> <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a5r4n8$m5f$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <3c82575f$1_3@news.newsgroups.com>

This also happens on Win2k with Python 2.2

P:\PUBLIC\DEMOS\WSOCK>python
Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0
>>> 1e-200
9.9999999999999998e-201
>>>

> So it probably is a gcc/glib bug of some sort, but I don't really know
where.

I'm running the windows binary provided at python.org, wasn't this compiled
with vc?





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From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Tue Mar 19 12:52:42 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:52:42 +0000
Subject: Extending Python/Tkinter
References: <5acdbd0c.0203190838.20c3733e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a77q4o$2poc$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Cris Eck wrote:
> I have a C++ class that draws maps that I've been assigned to extend
> into python.  The class uses X primitive calls (XDrawPoint, etc.) to
> do much of the work and I'm at a loss on how to integrate this as an
> extension to Python.  Initially I thought  I could get a drawable,
> display and graphics context from the Tk C API.  Then I saw that
> Tkinter is using the Tcl interpreter and not calling the Tk routines
> directly.  Now I'm lost.

Hi Cris,

I'm just the opposite of you (knowing quite well Tk/Tkinter, but nothing 
about X primitives), but I saw once in the comp.lang.tcl newsgroup that you 
could use the equivalent of the winfo_id method on Tkinter widgets to get 
the internal X11 window id, that you should be able to use at the X11 
level. You'll find more info in the Tk manuals, e.g. at 
http://dev.scriptics.com/man/tcl8.3/TkCmd/winfo.htm

I don't know however if it can be of any help for you...
 - eric -



From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Mon Mar 25 15:27:25 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:27:25 -0500
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
Message-ID: <jjb5-0C5626.15272525032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

>    goal member(X,L):
>        if (len(x) == 0):
>            fail
>        if (X != L[0]):
>            fail

Oops.

    goal member(X,L):
        if (len(L) == 0):
            fail
        if (X != L[0]):
            fail


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 12:16:06 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:16:06 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020306090857.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <XFMail.20020306090857.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <6874703.1015406166@[192.168.1.100]>

On 3/6/02 9:08 AM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> From watching the lists I have seen more people looking for C
> style for(;;) loops than anything.  The syntax you propose is extremely
> confusing to anyone who has used a for loop in C.  My other complaint is
> the lack of generality caused by not using the C syntax.

Thanks for the comments, but it seems clear (and I think it's a good thing) 
that C-style for's are not going to happen in Python.  They're very 
general, but not very intuitive, especially to non-C-programmers.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Mar 10 16:23:39 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:23:39 +0200
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
In-Reply-To: <15499.52105.790818.353389@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102138400.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <15499.52105.790818.353389@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102318080.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Pearu> So, I would like to disable the assert statements in one module
>     Pearu> while in others, that are under development, assert statements
>     Pearu> are enabled.  Is it possible? I am using Python 2.2.
> 
> This comes to mind:
> 
>     s/assert /pass; #assert/
> 
> :-)

Thanks :-)

I now tried that. It turns out that it does not help much. python -O must
do something more than just disabling assert statements. So, let me
rephrase my question:

  Is it possible to turn on the optimization in one module while
  in others it is off (so that their assert statements are in effect)?

Pearu



From dragon at china.org  Sat Mar  9 06:44:45 2002
From: dragon at china.org (Qiang.JL)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:44:45 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
Message-ID: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>

Hi,all

apologize if this is off-topic :)

I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two languages to
improve my language view. There are two languages are on the list: python
and C++
I have heard a lot ppl talk about C/C++,saying it's the must language to
learn for a programmer.and i indeed feel so. but C/C++ is hard and may need
to take longer time to learn and get the concept.also, Python seems a good
language and easier to learn.
I think some of you may come cross this, so let me ask you these questions

do i need to learn C/C++ to be a good programmer?

which one is better to start with ? ( I'm not a program beginner so python
being a beginner programmer maybe not be applied here)

How many language do you think one should _master_? I think one or two is
enough.learning others are letting you to learn the language concept and
structure etc certainly helpful.








From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 17 01:22:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:22:57 -0500
Subject: mixing regular expression
References: <D4Wk8.107090$eb.4892148@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3C943641.CD0086B3@engcorp.com>

Ian McMeans wrote:
> 
> How should go I about nesting regular expressions in python?
> 
> I want one huge regular expression to be composed of a bunch of others - is
> there some way I can include a regular expression inside another?
> 
> Or should I do it with strings - just save each regular expression's string,
> and then compile each combination separately?
> 
> What I mean is this:
> foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
> bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")
> 
> big = re.compile("foo|bar")
> 
> is that possible at all? To combine regular expression objects? Or do you
> suggest that I just make strings for foo and bar, and then compile the
> combined strings into big?

It seems to me you need to explain whether you want them concatenated
(in which case can't you just join the pattern strings?), or ORed
together (similar to the foo|bar case you give above?), or "nested"
(which to me implies some kind of hierarchy) or maybe just applied
sequentially (in which case just do that?).

-Peter


From vincent_a_primavera at netzero.net  Thu Mar 28 07:17:57 2002
From: vincent_a_primavera at netzero.net (Vincent A. Primavera)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 12:17:57 +0000
Subject: Weave...
Message-ID: <1017317878.24011.19.camel@del-vap-bos.ralphpill.com>

Hello,
	Does anyone know where I can find Weave which used to be located at the
address below(or any good alternatives...)?

	Thank you,

	Vincent A. Primavera

http://www.scipy.org/site_content/weave






From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sun Mar 10 10:08:14 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 15:08:14 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91CD6742AC189gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> I'm considering writing a wxWindows app for Win32.  

[snip]

> In order for it to be useful, I'll need to be able to
> distribute it as a stand-alone app to users who don't have (or
> care to have) a regular Python or wxWindows distro installed.
> 
> Optimally, it would be a single "exe" file that doesn't require
> any installation procedure.  If that's not possible, it would
> be permissible to use a typical "isntall-wizard" type
> installation: running the exe installs the required files
> somewhere, adds a start-menu entry, leaves an un-installer
> around.
> 
> It looks like Gordon McMillan's installer might fit the bill.
> 
> Anybody care to share any experiences distributing wxWindows
> apps for Win32?

Installer can do a single exe or a single directory. Unless your
users are only going to run it once or twice, I'd use single
directory (with wxPython it will just take too long to load as
a single file). 

Inno is a free GUI installer you can use:
 http://www.jrsoftware.org/
(I recently ran across another free one that claims to be 
lighter weight, but I guess I didn't bookmark it :-().

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/




From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Thu Mar  7 05:45:28 2002
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:45:28 +0000
Subject: Python Classes
References: <2030665d.0203070226.46b39af4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a67gal$c2a$1@mail1.wg.waii.com>

Sam Collett wrote:

> I am quite new to Python and have no experience with classes. I have
> tried a file class, but I am not sure how to get it to work:
> 
> class clFile(file):
>     
>     def getFileName(blnExt=None):
>         """
>         file = path to file
>         blnExt = show file extension (put in value other than 0 or
> None to show the extension)
>         """
>         import os
>         if blnExt:
>             result = os.path.basename(file)
>         else:
>             result = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(file))[0]
>         del os
>         return result
> 
>     def getFileExt():
>         import os.path
>         result = os.path.splitext(file)[1]
>         del os
>         return result
> 
>     def getDir():
>         import os
>         result = os.path.dirname(file)
>         del os
>         return result
> 
> I wondered if there was a way to do something like the following:
> 
> myfile = clFile("c:\\somedir\\dir with spaces\\foo.txt")
> myfile.getDir would return c:\somedir\dir with spaces\
> myfile.getFileExt would return .txt
> myfile.getFileName would return foo.txt or foo

Ok try this to get you working:
import os # do this at the top....

class clFile:
    def __init__(self, file):
        # constructor called when you create an instance (object) of this 
class
        self.file=file 
        # self.file instance variable bound to file object
        #(in this case the file name passed to the class constructor)
        
    def getFileName(self, blnExt=None):
        # return filename with or without the extension..
        if blnExt:
            result = os.path.basename(self.file)
        else:
            result = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(self.file))[0]
        return result
    
    def getFileExt(self):
        # return file extension
        return os.path.splitext(self.file)[1]
    
    
    def getDir(self):
        # return the file basname (directory/folder)
        return os.path.dirname(self.file)
       
         
         
# now for testing.....
if __name__=='__main__':
    clf=clFile('/home/bpse/crapola.bot') # create an instance of clFile
    
    # call it's methods....
    
    print clf.getFileExt() 
    print clf.getFileName(blnExt=1)    
    print clf.getFileName()
    print clf.getDir()




You should really work your way through the tutorial (at least the classes 
bit) on:-
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html






From cjw at sympatico.ca  Mon Mar 25 08:03:16 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:03:16 -0500
Subject: struct - Library Reference 4.3
References: <3C9CC1BB.A6C8A9C8@sympatico.ca> <m3r8maj2h3.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C9F2014.7D3E77B0@sympatico.ca>

Martin,

Thanks, I did not spot this.

I was looking for some clue as to which argument is causing
the exception.  As an example:

import exceptions, sys
try:
  print `struct.pack('iii', 22, 22.6, '23.6')`
except struct.error:
  print 'z1:', struct.error().args
  print 'z2:', sys.exc_info()[1]
  print 'z3:', sys.exc_info()[1].__getitem__(0)

Neither 22.6 or '23.6' is an integer, but it seems that '23.6'
is the source of the problem.

Various things I've tried don't identify the specific value.

Colin W.

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:

> "Colin J. Williams" <cjw at sympatico.ca> writes:
>
> > This gives no indication as to which of the argument's
> > components is the source of the grief.
> >
> > Any information about the error function would be
> > appreciated.
>
> It's not a function - it is an exception. If you want to catch the
> exception, you need to write a try-except-block.
>
> The exception does not provide any further information beyond the
> string that is printed - it is assumed that the nature of the error
> would be obvious once you read the string.
>
> Regards,
> Martin





From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 10 13:31:38 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:31:38 -0500
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <3c8b8112.27836128@news>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECPODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[brobbins333 at shaw.ca]
> OK, that makes perfect sense. In my case, I was simply looking for a
> predictable way to return a number with two decimal places -- knowing
> that it will be an approximation of Python's approximation. Obviously,
> using round() is not the way to go about this. I'll figure it out.

round() is the best way to go about this, provided you're going to stick
with using Python floats.  Grant Edwards explained why:  most decimal
numbers aren't exactly representable as floats, and round(x, 2) generally
delivers a float y such that y is approximately equal to x and such that
y*100 is as close to being an exact integer as is (even theoretically)
possible.

If you want exact decimal numbers, you can't use floats at all.  In a
parallel thread, Aahz announced that he put up my old FixedPoint class
(thanks, Aahz!):

     http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/FixedPoint.py

That simulates exact decimal arithmetic.

at-high-cost-but-so-it-goes-ly y'rs  - tim




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 17:20:03 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:20:03 -0800
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a79jmp$jg0ba$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <j41yefk0tw.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C9A5C93.4DF63794@ccvcorp.com>


"Martin v. L?wis" wrote:

> "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> writes:
>
> > Problems with freeze, IMO, are that it requires a C-compiler,
> > which most people on windows do not have...
>
> In the context of distutils, absence of a compiler may not be a
> problem: people building packages with distutils will need a compiler,
> atleast if the package contains extension modules.

Yes, but it is entirely possible that someone may be building a pure
Python application, and wish to distribute that as a single file.  It
would be desirable (though probably not essential) to require a C compiler
only in those cases where custom C extension modules are used.

For instance, I'm working on an application that uses wxPython and
win32all, but all of my own code is pure Python.  It's an internal
utility, so ease-of-packaging isn't a big priority (it's not too big of a
deal for me to install ActivePython + wxPython + my own bdist_wininst
package on each of the half-dozen machines that will need it), but I can
easily imagine a case in which it would be preferable to have a
single-file installer that would manage all of this automatically.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Sat Mar  2 00:33:20 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 00:33:20 -0500
Subject: Older Python bug entries on SourceForge
References: <u1yf327cp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <m3g03jn8sj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <uy9hbzg7z.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:

>       So if you have a bug number below 300000, SF will have
> renumbered the bug by now. They used to have a backwards-compatible
> URL in place, redirecting to the new report, but they may have
> disabled that by now.

Is there any way to compute the new number based on the old (e.g., by
adding some fixed constant or something)?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From rasmussn at lanl.gov  Tue Mar 12 13:53:32 2002
From: rasmussn at lanl.gov (rasmussn at lanl.gov)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:53:32 -0700
Subject: Scripting C++ -- 2 -- a more concrete example.
In-Reply-To: <6bf54244.0203010925.38d237ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <72EE8C52-35EA-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov>

On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 10:25 AM, Craig Maloney wrote:

> Donovan Rebbechi <elflord at panix.com> wrote in message 
> news:<slrna7tidr.8aq.elflord at panix2.panix.com>...
>> In article <3C7E6642.2030202 at physics.ucsb.edu>, Craig Maloney wrote:
>>> If using a wrapper generator (e.g. SILOON) I don't see a way around the
>>> marshalling of the call to get at the atom data structure.
>>
>> I don't really understand exactly what the problem is.
>>>
>>> Of course, this would be taken care of by a revamp of the design of the
>>> class library... maybe making the crystal an atom factory that produces
>>> new atoms in its own address space.  But I would like to avoid thinking
>>
>> Now I'm really confused. If you're not using CORBA, the atoms are in the
>> same address space, aren't they ?
>
> This is how I presumed that Boost also worked -- I must be mistaken.
> After having seen yours and Ralf's comments, I now have the impression
> that Boost works it's magic differently.
>
> Perhaps Craig Rasmussen could enlighten us as to how SILOON deals with
> co-location issues such as the one above?

I was at a conference on software testing last week and so I'm late 
responding.

If I understand the issue correctly, the question is "can I access a C 
struct
or class directly in Python within providing accessor methods"

With Siloon you can't, as the design philosophy was to keep all data on the
server/compute engine unless explicitly provided through some interface.  
This was done
because in high performance computing, our data structures (e.g., arrays) 
can be really
really big and would swamp Python.

But a python extension (wrapper) could be generated which would copy
data directly from a C struct into a Python class.  This would involve
a series of function calls (via Py_BuildValue, for example) to copy
the data to Python land, which I view as a form of marshaling.  So I don't 
see
any way to use C++ data in Python without function calls and data 
marshaling.

Regards,
Craig




From abou at cam.org  Sun Mar 31 11:24:06 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:24:06 -0500
Subject: seek()
References: <mailman.1017529128.3447.python-list@python.org> <3CA6AD4D.C552BDDA@engcorp.com> <3CA72FF2.6B5681F0@cam.org>
Message-ID: <3CA73826.8B8EFEFC@cam.org>


Zutroi Zatatakowski wrote:

> # Now I have the source in a file. No problems here.
> # This finds the byte where 'Gold' starts. I know that Gold's value is
> found 8 # bytes later.
> 
> longstr = c.read()
> print string.find(longstr, 'Gold')
> # Is it possible to have the output of string.find() converted to a
> string, or even # better, to an int? If I can get the location of 'Gold'
> into an int, it would be # easy to do:

Ok, I fixed my problem, was kinda easy, I just didn't think about it:

c.seek(string.find(longstr, 'Gold'))
print c.read(10)



-- 
Zutroi Zatatakowski
Commando PACU
http://pacu.cjb.net



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 07:03:47 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 13:03:47 +0100
Subject: Encoding when building XML via minidom? (...beginner needs advice)
References: <a7s6mn$eip$1@news.nextra.cz>
Message-ID: <m3d6xqusik.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Petr Prikryl" <Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz> writes:

> Briefly: I want to parse txt files with some internal structure
> and convert them into well-formed XML internal format
> (custom markup).  I do not know how to deal with
> windows-1250 input encoding and how to produce
> the XML output with the same encoding.

People have varying opinions about that, but I would recommend to
*not* use the DOM for generating XML files from scratch. Instead,
plain print statements might work just fine.

> I probably need some advice for what is the best way to create my
> own parser 

Writing a parser is always tricky, and what the best approach is
depends on the input language. In any case, it seems that this is
mostly unrelated to XML, yet - if you get a parser working, it should
be straight forward to build a DOM structure from it, if you wish to.

If you really care, you could try to produce a SAX reader: an object
that emits SAX events. In your case, it would not read XML, but it
still could emit SAX events as if it would read XML. With that, you
could pass your reader to xml.dom.minidom.parse, and it would build a
DOM tree right away. This is quite involved, though, and likely more
complicated than necessary.

>     <?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1250" ?>

This is somewhat tricky with minidom: the toxml method with always
assume UTF-8 output. You can use a StreamWriter for windows-1252,
and you will need to write the XML header separately.

> Are there some tutorials on how to work with encoding conversions?

You really need to familiarize yourself with the Unicode support
first; see

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-codecs.html

> (Python's DOM works with Unicode internally, doesn't it?)

In principle, yes. It won't complain if you pass byte strings, but you
may face troubles later on if you do.

> Are there some means to make writing the plain text with indentation
> easier, in Python?

Yes, you can use the multiplication of strings:

print " "*indent+text

HTH,
Martin


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Wed Mar 27 14:59:38 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:59:38 GMT
Subject: mutliple search and replace 
Message-ID: <Kwpo8.18614$EE4.60649@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Greetings,

Suppose i have a map (or two lists). is it possible to make a sweep through
a string to find all occurances of key's in the map then replace them all in
one sweep?

cheers
trung




From s.ernst at web.de  Fri Mar 15 08:14:09 2002
From: s.ernst at web.de (Sascha Ernst)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:14:09 +0100
Subject: problems with compiling python on osx
References: <a6sdqj$q70$06$1@news.t-online.com> <just-226E14.13535315032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <a6ss3k$7t4$06$1@news.t-online.com>

1. "command not found" is the error message. how can I get more detailed
infos?
2. the dev tools are ok, I compiled Ruby some days ago successfully

regards, sascha



"Just van Rossum" <just at xs4all.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:just-226E14.13535315032002 at news1.xs4all.nl...
> In article <a6sdqj$q70$06$1 at news.t-online.com>,
>  "Sascha Ernst" <s.ernst at web.de> wrote:
>
> > I've downloaded the newest python sources and tried to run ./configure.
I'm
> > within the right directory, the shell is located correctly, all
> > read/write/execute-rights are set, but even as a root I get the
> > error-message "command not found!". is there anything I forgot?
>
> 1) specific error message please...
> 2) do you have the proper dev tools installed?
>
> Just




From lenny.self at attbi.com  Fri Mar  8 17:34:01 2002
From: lenny.self at attbi.com (Lenny Self)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:34:01 GMT
Subject: List of Dictionaries
References: <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550@posting.google.com> <3C88186F.6BEFA3D2@alcyone.com> <ypYh8.1183$m%1.1257@sccrnsc02> <slrna8h02o.fan.quinn@cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <t%ai8.5902$uA5.6963@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

Thanks for your help.  When I return a copy of the dictionary from the
MailData class everything seems to work.  This is still a little bit odd
considering each time I access MailData it should be using a new instance
and thus my the dictionary in each instance should be completely different.
Odd.

Anyway, thanks again.

    -- Lenny






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 20:50:58 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:50:58 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014944882.14890.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-80232B.17244028022002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C802175.A527BFA0@ccvcorp.com> <eppstein-AE4788.17102601032002@news.service.uci.edu> <76c08ukou81p7lfnnoiftfhaf5v66amglm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-2EFFFA.17505801032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <76c08ukou81p7lfnnoiftfhaf5v66amglm at 4ax.com>,
 Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:

> At least we dont have for (exp-list;expr-listl;expr-list):
> 
> That's nasty, imo.

I think a lot of us can agree on that.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar  3 15:55:36 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 12:55:36 -0800
Subject: C++, Python & Threads
References: <1015181073.276455@seux119>
Message-ID: <a5u2k8$a9j$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <1015181073.276455 at seux119>, VUG <plugin at airtel.net> wrote:
>
>Hi all. I'm modifying Python source code in order to have more control over
>threads (I need to kill threads without adding controls on them, and it
>seems not to be posible). 

You really don't want to do that.  If you kill a thread externally, you
can leave your entire process in a bad state.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 10:57:12 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:57:12 +0000
Subject: cgi xmlrpc anyone?
Message-ID: <JDoTXKAYb3j8EwA$@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

Has anyone got a cgi version of an xmlrpc server? By that I mean a cgi
script which simulates being an xmlrpc server. We are allowed to do cgi
by our ISP, but not to run long running processes or to start up our own
servers etc.
-- 
Robin Becker


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar 18 16:48:33 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:48:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Adding static typing to Python
References: <0DFA7478F1E5D311B90900508B1208CF565714@ausmail02.mis.gtech.com> <mailman.1014092911.31096.python-list@python.org> <gft37u8csm1ukd923nr933iq7meimqu5i7@4ax.com> <bhahn-ya02408000R0403021410080001@news.corp.hp.com>  <a75gfi$vr1$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrna9co5h.ddl.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <a75gfi$vr1$1 at newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Nick wrote:
>"Brendan Hahn" <bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com> wrote in message
>news:bhahn-ya02408000R0403021410080001 at news.corp.hp.com...
>> Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
>> >One of the things I like about C sharp is their use of attributes,
>> >where you can define getters and setters on an attribute, but
>> >otherwise the attribute is simply used as if it were a public one.
>>
>> Eiffel does this. It was one of the first things to make me say "Cool!"
>> when I started looking into it.
>>
>> bhahn at transoft.mmangle.net   <-- unmangle address to reply
>
>Object Pascal does that as well.
>
>

Python too (as of 2.2).

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar 15 08:38:46 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 05:38:46 -0800
Subject: line-by-line file read
References: <mailman.1016195485.1199.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xhenix861.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Michael Stenner <mstenner at phy.duke.edu> writes:
> I often find myself reading and processing a file line-by-line.  The
> way I usually end up doing it goes something like this
> 
>     fo = open(filename)
>     line = fo.readline()
>     while line:
> 	# do the processing on "line" here
>         line = fo.readline()
>     fo.close()
> ...
> Anyway... just wondering if there's a preferred way to do this.

fo = open(filename)
for line in fo.xreadlines():
   # process the line
fo.close()


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 11:09:50 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:50 -0500
Subject: Possible to save router logs?
References: <bbde2416.0203310724.4150665d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA734CE.7A76AF18@engcorp.com>

Paul wrote:
> 
> I have a D-Link 704 cable/DSL router. Unfortunately, it has very
> limited logging capabilities(in that it doesn't save logs, it just
> rights over them when the space fills.) What I would like to do is
> right a program to save the logs to my hard drive every 12 hours or
> so. I normally have to access the web page with the url being the
> local IP of the router, then type in a password to get access to the
> logs. Has anyone attempted something like this? I know this is kinda
> general, but any feedback would be appreciated. It might give me an
> idea of where to begin. Thank you.

Use urllib?  

Where do you enter the password?  In a pop-up dialog box, or
in a form on-screen?


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Mar  9 12:17:13 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:17:13 GMT
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net>
Message-ID: <tsri8.24015$n4.4647816@newsc.telia.net>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> Dynamic tracing is trivial to implement.  More importantly, it is
> simpler to use and more flexible than any static scheme such as the one
> described in 282.

except that in real systems, the end user couldn't care less
about what/when/how your Python functions are called.

they do care about syslog-compatibility, severity levels, and
trivial things like getting the same logging messages also after
you've refactored your program...

</F>




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Fri Mar 29 16:10:36 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:10:36 GMT
Subject: Win32 Impersonation
References: <kJRo8.462443$pN4.32187350@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <gL4p8.1126$id3.264@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

You need to have the "Act as part of the Operating System" local security
policy set.  I'm don't think that even the administrator has this permission
set by default.  I've been using 2000 lately, but I beleive the way to
check/set this in NT is Start-> Administrative Tools ->User Manager.  If
you're on a server you'll need to set the domain to the server name, this
will happen automatically on a workstation.  One of the menu options
somewhere in there is Policies.

--
-

"Giganews" <orl_ando74 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kJRo8.462443$pN4.32187350 at bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I'm a newbie with Python, and I have been looking for a way to run a
script
> as the administrator on Windows NT.  I have the user name and password,
and
> some code to do the impersonation, but when I try to use it, I receive a
> sort of access denied message.  Upon reading the ActivePython docs, I
found
> that the user who runs the impersonation script needs SE_TCB_NAME,
> SE_CHANGE_NOTIFY_NAME, and SE_ASSIGNPRIMARYTOKEN_NAME priveleges.
>
> Maybe I'm missing the point here, but the only two accounts on these
systems
> with these priveleges are the administrator and the local system account.
> Obviously, if I already were the administrator I wouldn't have this
problem.
> I think I'm missing something.
>
> Anyway, here is the template of the code that I'm having problems with:
>
> admin=win32security.LogonUser('administrator_account','domain','password')
>
> win32security.ImpersonateLoggedOnUser(admin)
>
>
> Has anyone gotten this to work on their systems, if so please help me!  Is
> there another way?
> Any help would be greatly appreciated,
>
> Pablo Manzanera
>
>




From news at charneyday.com  Tue Mar  5 12:29:30 2002
From: news at charneyday.com (Reginald B. Charney)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:29:30 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C8466F9.2080903@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <_f7h8.5541$aP6.6480@rwcrnsc54>

In this idiom, I am not trying to traverse a tree. I am trying to execute
what I declare. Also, this idiom allows for very shallow dependencies. There
is no inheritance here. In this example, I am trying to write:

h = HTML(); b = BODY(); p = PHP()

Note that there is no interdependencies. I could also have written (but is
would produce invalid HTML):

b = BODY(); p = PHP(); h = HTML()

However, it is pretty clear what I have written and the order I expect
things to be done. Please compare it with the more classic example you wrote
where the logical ordering needed to be explicitly coded for the right
results to be produced. Using this idiom, here is what my __main__ would
look like:

if __name__ == "__main__":
     print "Start of program"
      h = HTML()
      b = BODY()
      p = PHP()
...

Thanks.

Reg.

"Jeremy Bowers" <newsfroups at jerf.org> wrote in message
news:3C8466F9.2080903 at jerf.org...
> Reginald B. Charney wrote:
>
> > In Python, are destructors defined to be invoked in reverse order of
> > constructors? The following program illustrates the problem:
> >
> > class HTML:
> >     def __init__(self): print "<HTML>"
> >     def __del__(self):  print "</HTML>"
> >
> > class BODY:
> >     def __init__(self): print "<BODY>"
> >     def __del__(self):  print "</BODY>"
> >
> > class PHP:
> >     def __init__(self): print "<?PHP "
> >     def __del__(self):  print "?>"
>
>
> You aren't trying to actually build an HTML document that way, are you?
> Please tell me this is just for the sake of example. The more
> conventional example would be something like
>
> class example:
> def __init__(self): print "example created"
> def __del__ (self): print "examples destroyed"
>
> Destructors are for cleaning up objects, not traversing trees. If you
> really are trying to build HTML documents, learn how to traverse trees
> correctly.
>
>
> ----
> import string
>
> class HTMLTag:
> def __init__(self):
> self.children = []
> def output(self):
> childText = [child.output() for child in self.children]
> return string.join([self.begin] + childText + [self.end])
>
> class HTML(HTMLTag):
> begin = "<HTML>"
> end = "</HTML>"
>
> class BODY(HTMLTag):
> begin = "<BODY>"
> end = "</BODY>"
>
> class PHP(HTMLTag):    # OK, so that's a bit of a semantic stretch...
> begin = "<?PHP "
> end = "?>"
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      print "Start of program"
>      h = HTML()
>      h.children.append(BODY())
>      h.children[0].children.append(PHP())
>      print h.output()
> ----
>
>
> This isn't the One True Implementation of this idea, just a nudge.
>




From marijn at sanity.dhs.org  Fri Mar  1 09:48:29 2002
From: marijn at sanity.dhs.org (marijn Vriens)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 06:48:29 -0800
Subject: gnome.ui is doing scary things....
Message-ID: <29575ad6.0203010648.3c2ec3d8@posting.google.com>

Anybody know what is going on here?:

Python 2.1.2 (#1, Jan 18 2002, 18:05:45) 
[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> t = 10.5
>>> print t
10.5
>>> import gnome.ui
>>> t = 10.5
>>> print t
10.0
>>> 

And how I can make it to stop doing this? IMHO this _VERY_ evil
behavure, thank god I had unittests to catch it! Now how do I fix it?
Ohh, and by the way my version of python-gnome is 1.4.1-17 in
debian-woody.

Thanks,
     Marijn.


From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Mar 15 07:53:53 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0100
Subject: problems with compiling python on osx
References: <a6sdqj$q70$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <just-226E14.13535315032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <a6sdqj$q70$06$1 at news.t-online.com>,
 "Sascha Ernst" <s.ernst at web.de> wrote:

> I've downloaded the newest python sources and tried to run ./configure. I'm
> within the right directory, the shell is located correctly, all
> read/write/execute-rights are set, but even as a root I get the
> error-message "command not found!". is there anything I forgot?

1) specific error message please...
2) do you have the proper dev tools installed?

Just


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Mar 26 15:03:36 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:03:36 -0500
Subject: Root access with python
References: <d906b2c1.0203250237.60f6ad12@posting.google.com> <7x663krjtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <a7ndu9$bme$1@panix1.panix.com> <20020325123855.A1716@ibook.distro.conectiva> <mailman.1017071438.28406.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ou4o8.17920$Ii4.1702@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Andy Gimblett" <gimbo at ftech.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017071438.28406.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 12:38:55PM -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
>
> > You have several options to do this, and all of them involve setting the
> > setuid bit in some executable. OTOH, setting setuid bit on scripts
> > usually doesn't work. If that's your case, you'll have to freeze your
> > script into a native executable, or build some kind of wrapper. Google
> > for "setuid bit scripts" for more information.
>
> As a general solution to this kind of problem, sudo is excellent,
> though it might be overkill for this particular case.
>
The problem is that sudo also required you to authenticate yourself
periodically, albeit as an ordinary user rather than root. I suppose there
may be an option to not require authentication, but any such device is
theoretically dangerous.

As far as setuid scripts goes, just say no. There are far too many security
holes in almost every Unix to think that it's safe to use setuid scripts.

regards
 Steve






From xtian at toysinabag.com  Wed Mar 27 01:14:05 2002
From: xtian at toysinabag.com (xtian)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 22:14:05 -0800
Subject: list of empty lists
References: <3CA11A5B.5000501@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <d111eafa.0203262214.4f72c2e0@posting.google.com>

Curtis Jensen <cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu> wrote in message news:<3CA11A5B.5000501 at bioeng.ucsd.edu>...
> Is there a easy way to make a list of an arbitray number of empty lists?
> 
> In this case, what I would like is three independantly empty lists.  I 
> can make a for loop to loop "some_number" of times and append an empty 
> list at each itteration.  Is there a simpler way?
> Thanks.

Another way to avoid the shared inner list would be

>>> l = [[] for i in range(3)]
>>> l
[[], [], []]
>>> l[0].append(1)
>>> l
[[1], [], []]

The empty list is evaluated for each element in the source list.

(This is effectively the same as the for loop option, in that they
both introduce a counter variable.)

HTH
xtian

how nuch do I love
ninjas? let me count the ways:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5


From michael+usenet at dynamine.net  Fri Mar 29 16:31:29 2002
From: michael+usenet at dynamine.net (Michael S. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:31:29 -0000
Subject: IOError on file close
Message-ID: <ua9n9hhmdicned@corp.supernews.com>

Greetings,

Can anyone tell me why this is happening?  (Python 2.1.2 on Debian Linux)

>>> fp = open("/proc/scsi/scsi","w")
>>> fp.write("scsi add-single-device 0 0 1 0\n")
>>> fp.close()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  IOError: [Errno 38] Function not implemented
>>> fp
<closed file '/proc/scsi/scsi', mode 'w' at 0x8086530>
>>> fp.close()
>>>

Thanks,

-- 
Michael S. Fischer / michael at dynamine.net / +1 650-533-4684
Lead Hacketeer, Dynamine Consulting, Silicon Valley, CA


From owen_stevens at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 12 12:16:09 2002
From: owen_stevens at hotmail.com (Owen Stevens)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 09:16:09 -0800
Subject: new to python  - please help
Message-ID: <9e629c01.0203120916.7eab41eb@posting.google.com>

I made a dictionary with the following structure:


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 09:28:24 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:28:24 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net><mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org><Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com><R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54> <mailman.1015517608.2847.python-list@python.org> <wI%h8.2623$ZR2.2434@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <cU3i8.109128$nz4.9711942@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> wrote in message
news:wI%h8.2623$ZR2.2434 at rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Believe it or not, I was not trying to start a religious war. I was
trying
> to use a well-defined approach in one language to another language
that I
> thought was similar enough in structure to work in the same way.

As you have discovered, the Python interpreter does record the order
of object creation.  So do it yourself with a stack.  Start with
(untested)

class Finalize:    #this would be even simpler in 2.2 with
Finalize(class)
  def __init__(self):
    self.stack = []
  def __del__(self):
    self.stack.reverse()
    for pending in self.stack:
      pending.finalize()

Push = Finalize().stack.append

Now add Push(self) to the end of initializers that need a
corresponding finalizer and rename your finalizer methods 'finalize'
instead of '__del__'.  Now all the cleanup is invoked in the proper
order when the program ends.

Terry J. Reedy






From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Mon Mar 25 17:42:02 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:42:02 -0800
Subject: Doing a ps in windows.. (Is application XYZZY running?)
In-Reply-To: <m38z8g74hw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <m38z8g74hw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200203252240.g2PMeNq17540@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

Apart from using win32api you could install two tiny executables:     
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/tools/existing/pulist-o.asp
and one of the many versions of grep out there: 
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=grep+windows&meta=

On March 25, 2002 12:54 pm, Andrew Markebo wrote:
> *blush* yeah I know.. not really.. here, only almost :-)
>
> I have the windows-compiled python 2.2, and I would like to see if
> Opera or Netscape is running on my computer (poor sod, running Win2k,
> XP or 98).. How do I do this, I suppose I could use something in the
> win32api, but what is something.. :-) ??
>
> On unix I do "ps -ef | grep netscape" ;-)
>
>         /Andy

-- 
  Andy McKay



From landshark at verticaladdiction.net  Fri Mar  1 11:37:22 2002
From: landshark at verticaladdiction.net (Dave Marotti)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:37:22 -0000
Subject: what does this do? (really basic question)
References: <slrna7u3n3.tqi.landshark@burrito.verticaladdiction.net> <a5n8dr$11bg$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna7vbjm.uhr.landshark@burrito.verticaladdiction.net>

Daniel / Sean,

Thanks for the great explaination and the links.  I wasn't sure what to think
of the syntax.  I haden't seen the use of asterisks before in python code, and
my background in C/C++ instantly made me think of pointers.  I couldn't have
been further from the truth.

-dave

>"kw" stands for "keyword", and what's being used is called a "keyword
>argument".  Keyword arguments allow us to pass parameters to a
>function in a very general way.  In the example above, the keyword
>argument becomes a dictionary that captures any keyword variables that
>"fall through the cracks" of a function call.

--
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Dave Marotti                | Looking for a Visio alternative for *nix?    |
| lndshark ! speakeasy net    | Kivio : http://thekompany.com/projects/kivio |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| I just don't trust anything | I suppose that in a few more hours I will    |
| that bleeds for 5 days and  | sober up. That's such a sad thought. I think |
| doesn't die. - Mr. Garrison | I'll have a few more drinks to prepare myself|
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 06:44:20 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:20 +0000
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <a6mpda$79e$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F3B94.1020409@mxm.dk>

Paul Boddie wrote:

> I've written some page-mining tools which help with these kinds of
> activities, and I suppose I should get round to releasing them at some
> point. Let me know if you're interested!

Actually urllib needs those kinds of "smart" url joining. The ones that 
are in there now are next to useless.

So perhaps you could get it added to the urllib instead?

regards Max M



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 19:43:54 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:43:54 +0000
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3768B.32BB6AC9@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa7e6a.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:01:15 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>
>
>phil hunt wrote:
>
>> IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works
>> correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
>>
>> IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
>
>I disagree.  I'm just as happy that Python doesn't try to guess what would be a
>suitable "default" value for non-existent keys.  

The default value should always be None.

None should act like 0 or "" or [] or {} where appropriate, i.e.:

   None + 1 --> 1
   None + "x" --> "x"
   None * 4 --> 0
   None + ['x'] --> ['x']
   None + {2:3} --> {2:3}

etc.

(Note I am implying here that + should work with dictionaries, i.e.
{2:3} + {4:5} --> {2:3, 4:5})

>It seems to me to be entirely
>consistent with the philosophy of "explicit is better than implicit".

But that isn't the philosophy of any high level langauge. In fact, 
the more high level any language is, the more implicit things are. 
And I would argue that's a pretty good definition of what a high 
level language is.

>  Why
>presume that somedict[key] should default to 0, instead of to an empty string,
>or to None, or to [], or...  ???

See above

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Mon Mar 11 08:02:40 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:02:40 +0100
Subject: newbie needs help with tkinter
References: <1Myi8.13667$%d1.409160@twister2.libero.it> <a6i9p3$eip6d$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a6i9tg$e8gj1$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

And you can even comment the line:
self.update_idletasks()
it works as well !


"Bertrand Geston" <bergeston at yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:a6i9p3$eip6d$1 at ID-135695.news.dfncis.de...
> Beeing newbie myself, I played with you code, here is the result:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> from Tkinter import *
>
> class Application(Frame):
>     def __init__(self,master=None):
>         Frame.__init__(self,master)
>         menubar=self.addmenubar()
>         master.config(menu=menubar)
>         w=Label(self,fg="green",text="*")
>         self.pack()
>         w.grid()
>
>     def addmenubar(self):
>         menubar=Menu()
>         filemenu=Menu(menubar)
>         menubar.add_cascade(menu=filemenu,label="File")
>      filemenu.add_command(label="Configura", command=self.configframe)
>         filemenu.add_command(label="Lavora")
>         return menubar
>
>     def configframe(self):
>         self.config(bg="yellow")
>         w=Label(self,fg="blue",text="prova")
>         w.grid()
>         self.update_idletasks()
>         print "hello!"
>
> #main
>
> root=Tk()
> applicazione=Application(root)
> root.mainloop()
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Sacchi" <sacchi at nospamfreemail.it> wrote in message
> news:1Myi8.13667$%d1.409160 at twister2.libero.it...
> > I've just learned the main rules of python(I already knew both java and
> > C). Now I'm trying to get something out of Tkinter, but while running
> > this sample program (made by myself) I encountered a problem. I wanted
> > that by clicking on the "configura" command under the "File" menu the
> > frame would get yellow and that a label would appear on it. The
> > function works(the line "print "hello!"" gets executed) but the gui
> > window doesn't change. I even tried to use the widget redraw methods
> > but with no success... anyone can help me please?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Marco
> >
> > --------- Program Code ----------------------
> >
> > from Tkinter import *
> >
> > class Application(Frame):
> >
> >         def __init__(self,master=None):
> >                 Frame.__init__(self,master)
> >                 menubar=self.addmenubar()
> >                 master.config(menu=menubar)
> >                 menubar.mainloop()
> >
> >         def addmenubar(self):
> >                 menubar=Menu()
> >                 filemenu=Menu(menubar)
> >                 menubar.add_cascade(menu=filemenu,label="File")
> > #these lines got shifted by the newsreader program, but all belong to
> > #the addmenubar function
> > filemenu.add_command(label="Configura"command=self.configframe)
> >         filemenu.add_command(label="Lavora")
> >                 return menubar
> >
> >         def configframe(self):
> >                 self.set(bg="yellow")
> >                 w=Label(self,fg="blue",text="prova")
> >                 w.grid()
> >                 self.update_idletasks()
> >                 print "hello!"
> >
> > #main
> >
> > root=Tk()
> > applicazione=Application(root)
> > root.mainloop()
> > --
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > remove "nospam" from email address to answer
> > -----------------------------------------------------
>
>




From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Wed Mar  6 22:58:34 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:58:34 -0800
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-A053DB.19583406032002@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list at python.org>,
 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to further
> enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if more of this
> energy was directed at the overall environment (library, support tools,
> installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.

Thanks, Skip!

More and more often, I look at a language-domain proposal, and think:
    1. that might be nice...it makes good sense
    2. do we need to tinker with the language that way?
    3. probably not

PEP 284 triggered that sequence, and hasn't yet triggered the next step:
    4. well OK, probably this one is justified.

I used 284 just as an example, not to pick on it.

  --John


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sat Mar  9 14:38:33 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:38:33 -0800
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6cs7p.3vsid57.1@kserver.org>

On 9 Mar 2002 08:40:50 -0800, morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton) wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb at posting.google.com>:

> Its counter-intuitive for someone playing with strings as strings
> rather than as sequences of characters, however.
> 
> 'c' in 'the quick brown fox'     -> 1
> 
> 'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'   -> 1 (instead of TypeError)
> 
> Is there any circumstance where youd expect (or want) the later not to
> work? I expected and wanted it to work (but instead got an error), its
> quite a clear and unambiguous expression (for strings only).

Suppose

word = 'fox'
container = 'the quick brown fox'

What if the type of container is not necessarily known. i.e. it is possible
that container could be something like:

container = ['the', 'quick', 'brown', 'fox']

And suppose the type were important in this case, as to whether it were a
single string vs. a list of words. As it is now, you are able to make this
distinction, whereas with what you propose that distinction would be lost.

I can't come up right now with a practical example of why this would be
important or useful, though.

Anyhow, if you have a string, as shown above, and you want to test for a
word in the string (rather than using the .find method for strings) you
could do this:

word in string.split(container)

this would split the string container on any and all white spaces into just
the word elements.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Mar 31 11:01:29 2002
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:01:29 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <000f01c1f0a4$9f176d60$0334fea9@carol>
Message-ID: <3CA732D9.BA7E963D@prescod.net>

Arthur Siegel wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> If I am concerned about the readability of my code
> for other non-experts (and I usually am), I might
> do a:
> 
> True = 1
> False = 0
> 
> at a modules head and go from there.
> 
> I am not understanding what beyond that the
> Boolean type accomplishes.
> 
> It would perhaps not detract from the debate
> if the upside could be explained in terms that
> spoke to the practicalities of writing workable
> and readable code in Python, rather than in
> terms of language design theory and
> implementation internals.

One way to sum it up is "if that's a good convention for readability
then why not make it a built-in concept in the language so that we do
not all invent our own spellings for it?" Having bool be separate from
integer is useful for introspection. For instance if you pass a "1" to
Jython, COM or SOAP, it is hard for Jython or the Python COM bindings or
ZSI to know whether you meant to pass an integer or a boolean. In the
worse case this can mean you call the wrong overloaded method. Even in
pure python it may occasionally (very occasionally) be useful to write
code of the form: "if the first argument is a boolean then do X, else if
it is an integer do Y." Finally, booleans can have different displays so
that:

print "isWindowMaximized:", isWindowMaximized

will print "True", rather than "1". The former is a little clearer.

 Paul Prescod



From jim.vickroy at noaa.gov  Wed Mar  6 15:50:22 2002
From: jim.vickroy at noaa.gov (j vickroy)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:50:22 -0700
Subject: (10093, 'Successful WSAStartup() not yet performed') ?
Message-ID: <a65vek$bu7$1@mwrns.noaa.gov>

I'm using Python 2.2 on a Win 2k machine.  My socket script is generating
the following error:

   (10004, 'Interrupted system call')

Thereafter, the following error is generated until the script is stopped:

 (10093, 'Successful WSAStartup() not yet performed')

Could someone shed some light on this?


Here is the code snippet:
>
>#----------------------------------------
>class Interface(goes12_sxi.announcement.Publisher):
>
>   def __init__(self):
>      self.name = 'pre-processor interface'
>      self.host = generic.IPC.Visible_Local_Socket_Host_Name()
>      self.port = Socket_Port()
>      self.stop_signal   = threading.Event()
>      self.server_socket = generic.IPC.socket_listener(self.port)
>
>   def _receive_messages(self):
>
>      journal.put(goes12_sxi.journal.Note(self, 'started'))
>
>      while not self.stop_signal.isSet():
>
>         try:
>            # the following statement is causing the exception
###############
>            transmitter = self.server_socket.accept() # blocks till
something arrives
>            .....
>         except Exception, details:
>            .....
>#----------------------------------------
>





From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 27 16:11:47 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:11:47 -0600
Subject: mutliple search and replace 
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689EB@SRM201002>

> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Suppose i have a map (or two lists). is it possible to make a 
> sweep through
> a string to find all occurances of key's in the map then 
> replace them all in
> one sweep?
> 
> cheers
> trung
> 

Sure, only that there's not a builtin function that does that,
but it sounds easy enough to make it:

	def ReplaceLots(String, RDict):
	    "Replace all occurrences of all keys in RDict inside String"
	    for k in RDict:
	        String = String.replace(k, RDict[k])
	    return String

Simple, eh? Yeah, that's Python for ya. :-)

-gustavo



From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 13 17:36:17 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:36:17 +1100
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <20020313122953.B15069@ActiveState.com>
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6o53b$62u$1@panix3.panix.com> <20020313122953.B15069@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:29, Trent Mick wrote:
> Bugzilla has a big use community, hence, I would suspect better support. It
> is heavily used in a lot of projects. Roundup is not, from what I know.

It is used in several environments for several purposes. One of these days 
I'll do a quick poll of the userbase to find out...


> With bugzilla you can explicitly add yourself and remove yourself from the
> Cc lists of bugs. With roundup you get plopped onto a the nosy list of a
> bug by responding to traffic on the discussion.
> [snip]
> Roundup's use of the subject line of emails to carry bug attributes did
> not, in our experience, scale well.

Have you investigated roundup recently? That is, since it was re-written from 
scratch using the spec from the Software Carpentry project? Or are you just 
making these statements based on several-year-old-knowledge?


> Aahz wrote:
> > What, if anything, does roundup have that bugzilla
> > does not?
>
> It is written in Python. :)

Yeah! :)

Bugzilla has some stuff that roundup doesn't provide by default (parent bugs 
for example), but I believe that roundup is fully capable of all of 
Bugzilla's functionality by implementing simple detectors. They just haven't 
been written yet, since all the current users of roundup haven't had the need.


    Richard



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 16:20:47 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 22:20:47 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <m3pu2orps5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015015924.5220.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3n0xsouhc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> Just to make sure I understand correctly, under Stephen's propsal would
> 
>     s = "\xff"
> 
> be correct?  I assume
> 
>     s = "?"
> 
> (a literal 0377 character) would be an error, yes?  

Yes, on both accounts.

> That is, when you saw "arbitrary binary data" you are referring to
> non-printable octets in the source file, right?

Correct (except that whether something is printable is in the eye of
the beholder). On the source level, the four letters '\', 'x', 'f',
'f' are not arbitrary binary - they follow a specific syntax.

I actually doubt anybody is putting "arbitrary binary" data into
source code. Instead, most such occurrences are likely "printable", if
viewed in the encoding of the author of that code. Those would be
outlawed, unless that encoding is UTF-8.

Regards,
Martin


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar  6 07:31:53 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 04:31:53 -0800
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <7xbse1yj0m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> writes:
> It's not something revolutionary, just useful. If it was in standard Python,
> I would probably use it every day.

See PEP 215 for an integration proposal.


From aahzpy at panix.com  Fri Mar 22 18:09:19 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 18:09:19 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem simplified
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7gdiv$1oc$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65 at hotmail.com>,
Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I'm using Windows NT, Python 1.5.2, and IDLE 0.5

Try switching to Python 2.1.2 or 2.2; I'm sure that reload() has had
some changeds.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Thu Mar 21 17:54:33 2002
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:54:33 +0000
Subject: Pmw.ComboBox label_text param causes error
References: <ac677656.0203211130.6cdac25c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7do8e$1cla$1@mail1.wg.waii.com>

Tom Good wrote:

> The Pmw ComboBox sample code at:
> 
> http://pmw.sourceforge.net/doc/ComboBox.html
> 
> shows label_text as one of the possible keyword arguments to the
> constructor.  However, when I use it I get the error shown below.  I'd
> appreciate assistance in figuring out the problem.
> 
> 
> PythonWin 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32.
> Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (MarkH at ActiveState.com) -
> see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>>> from Tkinter import *
>>>> import Pmw
>>>> Pmw.version()
> '0.8.5'
>>>> combo = Pmw.ComboBox(None, label_text="foo")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\Python21\lib\Pmw\Pmw_0_8_5\lib\PmwComboBox.py", line 139,
> in __init__
>     self.initialiseoptions(ComboBox)
>   File "C:\Python21\lib\Pmw\Pmw_0_8_5\lib\PmwBase.py", line 557, in
> initialiseoptions
>     raise KeyError, text + string.join(unusedOptions, ', ') + \
> KeyError: Unknown option "label_text" for ComboBox
>>>>
Tom,


For some reason the COmboBox (and possibly other Pmw's) require the labelpos
option if you want label_text (the default for labelpos is no label text so 
I supose this is by design.....  anyhow this works:-

import Pmw
combo = Pmw.ComboBox(None, labelpos='w', label_text="foo")

Martin









From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Sun Mar 17 05:42:32 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:42:32 +0100
Subject: why python for the academe?
References: <mailman.1016330427.15737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C947318.B0E80317@kfunigraz.ac.at>

huck wrote:
> 
> hello all,
> 
> i've been lurking for a while and am amused at how
> many people in the list here use python for scientific
> computing. why not matlab (or octave or scilab or whatever)?

First of all there is a rip-off concerning the European prices. This is
one reason (personally for me here in Austria) not to use
IDL/Matlab/Mathematica. Not only do they protect a sale outside of
America (you won't get a license in America for Europe; you always must
buy here at your local dealer) they even charge more than twice of the
American prices (this cannot be explained by taxes/shipping/handling).

For me this is unacceptable (I would have really no problem when a
Third-World-Country would charge overgenerous high prices; but not
America-Europe). I only know of PV-Wave (which is just similar to IDL;
they bought the IDL code base ten years ago) which has got similar
prices for Europe and America (or Common Lisp from LispWorks; they also
charge  the same prices here in Europe as they do for America).

But the above is maybe just only valid for Europe, there must be more
reasons. 

Python with the right combination (numerical libraries and plotting
libraries) is much more flexible than lets say Matlab or IDL. What you
buy with Matlab is a huge repository of pre-compiled code. Scientist
normally do not get paid for programming (curiosity: but they do
programming  all the time) and a great many are not very well educated
how to glue together libraries. Personally, I switched to Windows (even
at home I just threw away my Macintosh; but this is another story),
because it bothered me to waste my time on Unix with  ./configure files
and make cycles where at the end the compiler reports that the program
does not compile. On Windows I get at least a pre-compiled program. 

And for me there is also the fact, that when you as a scientist write
code in Python it is more likely that a colleague in a developing
country can profit from your code. The Matlab or IDL prices for them are
unreachable.

This is also a reason why I just abandoned Fortran 90 (there are only
some commercially deliverd compilers available; yes, yes F-language,
but...), and in the meantime I think a scientist is better off when he
is using C++; especially if he writes code which others can profit from
(lets say a new radiation transfer code for example).

But if were in a company I would rethink my stance and maybe I would
rely on commercial products. It is a little bit strange to sell results
based on free software. How can I convince my customer that he should
buy my study and not expect to get it for free. Free software is not all
that good as a great many of people want to make believe us.

S. Gonzi


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar 22 17:11:26 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 14:11:26 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <7xd6xwntgx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> writes:
> No, and it seems the problem is not with sorting.
> I wanted to write a compact word counting script (well, in shell
> it can be done in a 5 lines or so), just  for fun.
>...
> for i in a:
>     if i not in known:

This is horrendously slow because for every input word, you're comparing
it against all the previously seen words.

> it seems it's slow not because of sorting...

Correct.  I didn't examine your code carefully enough to be sure, but
what I think you want is something like this:

counts = {}
a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())
for w in a:
  if counts.has_key(w):
     counts[w] += 1
  else:
     counts[w] = 1

words = counts.keys()
words.sort()
words.reverse()

for w in words:
   print words[w], w


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 30 07:46:29 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:46:29 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uabciv8gmovc91@news.supernews.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list at python.org...
> I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
> a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.
>
>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
>
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

Yes. I think it will improve the readability of code.

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

That's a hard one. In general, I'd have to go with str(True)
returning 1 for compatability reasons. If you don't, I would
expect unit test suites to break, as well as anything that
externalizes values as strings and then loads them again.

Also, repr() should be documented as being changable
from release to release - that is, the result of repr() is intended
to be fed back into eval() in that release.

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).

Keep it consistent with None. True and False.

>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>        me.

Actually, the example seems totally unreasonable to me. It's
treating the fact that February in a leap year has one more day
than February in a non leap year as a magic number. Bad! Bad!

More to the point, if bool is a subtype of integer, I don't see
anything wrong with the type coercion, and I don't see very
much value with the purist viewpoint. This could be looked at
again if there is ever a version of Python with strong typing.

>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.

Logically, it should return a bool. However, I'm quite willing
to settle for whatever is needed for compatability (breaking the
least amount of code.)

John Roth




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 01:47:55 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:47:55 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org> <cfcf4b0d.0203301051.4c2e3917@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6B11B.3DFA74C1@engcorp.com>

Ken Peek wrote:
> 
> I don't see that adding a "bool" (or better: "boolean", since I HATE
> abbreviated words) would be such a big issue.  

Agreed on that point.  "bool" would be less clear to newcomers and
possibly those with limited English.  (Vague assumption there that
those people might have heard of Boolean algebra but might not
link it to the shorter form as quickly.)

Besides, if we're doing this to look like the other languages,
don't they use "boolean" more often?  (I realize that's not
really the reason for doing this.)


From kragen at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 03:24:29 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 03:24:29 -0500
Subject: Use apply() or not, and raising multiple exceptions (co-routines?)
References: <roy-5CA36F.12183910032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <83bsdlkls2.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> The only thing I can see is to have each check method return a list of 
> problems it found.  Then, the main loop would look like:
> 
> for check in self.checks:
>    for problem in check (self, data):
>       print 'failed check:', problem
> 
> but that implies pushing a lot of scaffolding down into the check methods, 
> making them build and manipulate error lists to return.  I'm trying to keep 
> them as clean as possible, so they're easy to write and debug.

Well, PyUnit has the same problem.  How about this?  This skeleton is
about a dozen lines of code.

class basecheck:
    def __init__(self, complain): self.complain = complain

class somecheck(basecheck):
    def test(self, data):
        if isbad(data): self.complain("data is bad")

class complainer:
    def __init__(self): self.complaints = []
    def __call__(self, complaint): self.complaints.append(complaint)

def runsomechecks(checks, data):
    acomplainer = complainer()
    for check in checks: check(acomplainer).test(data)
    for problem in acomplainer.complaints: print "failed check:', problem

But maybe you should just use PyUnit, which is in the standard distribution.



From tatebll at aol.com  Sun Mar 17 07:03:57 2002
From: tatebll at aol.com (Bill Tate)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 04:03:57 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cb4ba455.0203170403.5158f689@posting.google.com>

"Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list at python.org>...
> I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so) documents at
> a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.  I'm thinking that
> the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of useless data.  Since
> word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm guessing that I can spot
> unusual words (my goal here) by loading up the top 80 percent or so of words
> in the database (by occurrences) and focusing on the words that are in the
> docs but not in the set retrieved from the database.

Nick,
Suggestion, you might also check out metakit (see www.equi4.com). 
There is a python binding for this embedded database.  MK is extremely
fast, very flexible in terms of designing a suitable schema and uses a
very-straightforward querying syntax.  Gordon McMillan added a sql
engine on top of it so you can basically use SQL like syntax as well
but it is not required.


From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Wed Mar 27 09:32:07 2002
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:32:07 GMT
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
References: <mailman.1017181541.7972.python-list@python.org> <8Rco8.1017$0b.176940@news1.west.cox.net> <a7rp54$d4o$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <HJko8.1292$0b.235930@news1.west.cox.net>

Oops, that should have been:

def fact4(n, step=1):
    from sys import maxint
    mult = 1
    result = 1L
    subresult = 1
    max_sub_result = maxint / n
    for mult in range(1,n+1,step):
        subresult *= mult
        if subresult > max_sub_result:
            result *= subresult
            subresult = 1
    return result * subresult


def fact5(n):
    if n < 1024:
        return fact4(n)
    result = fact4(n, 2) * 2**(n/2) * fact5(n/2)
    return result


Where fact5 is faster for large enough n. These aren't quite as fast as I
claimed before -- I should have been suspicous when fact4 sped up so much
when I changed from a while to a for loop. I trusted that things were still
working 'cause I had some code in their to check the results, but it
depended on assert and I ran those final tests with '-O'. Doh! I beg the
court for mercy -- it was late.

As Fernado notes, these sort of computations are often better done using
approximate methods, but that's not nearly as entertaining.

-tim

"Fernando P?rez" wrote:
> Tim Hochberg wrote:
>
> > Try this out! For n=100, it's only twice as fast, but try it for n=1000,
or
> > n=2000 and it really shines.... (I think it even gives the right answer,
> > which is a plus.)
> > In [23]: fact4 10
> -------> fact4 (10)
> Out[23]: 0L
>
> That doesn't look right to me.
>
> It's hard to say what the op was after, but in general when you need large
n
> factorials it's rare to truly need exact results. If you can live with an
> approximate answer (good to 10 sig figs or so), then a constant-time
solution
> is vastly preferrable. Note that this is far from optimal, it's a 3 minute
> port of the standard routine from NumRecipes. But it will do in a pinch:
>
> from Numeric import *
>
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> def gammln(x):
>     """Return the natural log of gamma(x)"""
>
>     cof = array([76.18009172947146,-86.50532032941677,
>                  24.01409824083091,-1.231739572450155,
>                  0.1208650973866179e-2,-0.5395239384953e-5],Float)
>
>     y = arange(x+1,x+7,typecode = Float)
>     tmp = x+5.5
>     tmp -= (x+0.5)*log(tmp)
>     ser = 1.000000000190015 + sum(cof/y)
>     return -tmp+log(2.5066282746310005*ser/x)
>
> def fact5(n):
>     return long(round(exp(gammln(n+1))))
>
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> This solution obviously has two limitations:
>
> - not exact, but quite good. Look at a numerical comparison with an exact
(but
> super-slow) solution:
>
> def fact6(n):
>   return  reduce(operator.mul, range(1,n+1), 1L )
>
> In [27]: fact5 50
> -------> fact5 (50)
> Out[27]:
30414093203509286326338827883471693198716826006464232959556714496L
>
> In [28]: fact6 50
> -------> fact6 (50)
> Out[28]:
30414093201713378043612608166064768844377641568960512000000000000L
>
> In [29]: 1.0*(_28-_27)/_27  # force float div
> Out[29]: -5.9048555901676581e-11
>
> So that's pretty good numerically.
>
> - can't go outside the float range.
>
> In most 'typical' cases, neither of these is a problem (since you can
write
> most large n problems in terms of logs anyway, which is numerically much
> saner).
>
> Cheers,
>
> f.




From sab at freeuk.com  Sat Mar 23 13:11:06 2002
From: sab at freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:11:06 -0000
Subject: IOstreams/pipes, newbie question, capturing console info form another script?
References: <a7i9kq$ujm$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <Xns91DAB26BB55B5cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <a7igdi$mp7$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

this is what i am using:
[snip]
class RenderBox:
 def __init__(self, renderMaster="aboutRoot", title="Rendering..."):
  self.renderMaster=renderMaster
  self.renderMaster=Toplevel()
  self.renderMaster.withdraw()
  self.renderMaster.title("DAoC MapperGUI")
  self.renderMaster.resizable(0, 0)
  self.renderMaster.protocol('WM_DELETE_WINDOW', lambda:0)
  frame0=Frame(self.renderMaster)
  frame0.grid(row=0, column=0, padx=10, pady=10)
  Label(frame0, text=title, justify=LEFT, anchor=W, font=("Arial", 12,
"")).grid(row=0, column=0, sticky=W)
  self.text=StringVar()
  self.textLabel=Label(frame0, textvariable=self.text, width=35, height=8,
justify=LEFT, anchor=N+W)
  self.textLabel.grid(row=1, column=0, sticky=W)
  self.renderMaster.update_idletasks()
  self.renderMaster.geometry("%sx%s+%s+%s" %
(self.renderMaster.winfo_width(), self.renderMaster.winfo_height(),
(self.renderMaster.winfo_screenwidth()/2)-(self.renderMaster.winfo_width()/2
),
(self.renderMaster.winfo_screenheight()/2)-(self.renderMaster.winfo_height()
/2)))
  self.renderMaster.deiconify()
  self.renderMaster.focus_set()
  self.update()

 def updateText(self):
  self.text=app.mapperScript.read()
  self.update()

 def update(self):
  self.renderMaster.after(100, self.updateText)

 def destroy(self):
  self.renderMaster.destroy()
[/snip]
[snip]
self.progressBox=RenderBox()
self.mapperScript=os.popen("python mapper.py -settings mappergui.ini -scale
%s -out latest_render.jpg -zone %s" % (self.imageSize, self.currentZone))
[/snip]

but it doesn't work! i start the script off and the RenderBox pops up but
everything freezes until the 'mapper.py' script finishes! any ideas???

"Chris Liechti" <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:Xns91DAB26BB55B5cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82...
> "G. Willoughby" <sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com> wrote in
> news:a7i9kq$ujm$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk:
> ...
> >  os.system("python mapper.py -settings mappergui.ini -scale %s -out
> > latest_render.jpg -zone %s" % (self.imageSize, self.currentZone))
> >  [/snip]
> >  now i was wondering because this 'mapper.py' script and an
> > included 'zone.py' writes alot of info to the console using
> > 'sys.stdout.write()'
> > can i intercept this using my first Tkinter prgram so i can display
> > this info in another freshly created window. basically i am writing
> > a gui for a cmdline script! if so has anyone got any examples of
> > code for me to look at that would be great!
>
> have a look at os.popen. it returns a file-like object where you can
> read the output from the programm you started.
>
> chris
>
> (PS: the NOSPAM will not help much, but its an inconvenience for
> people that want to anwser you. some months ago we had a discussion
> aout that on this group.)
> --
> Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>
>




From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar 10 02:12:01 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:12:01 +0100
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <just-B1AE06.08022810032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <just-DF9C6A.08120110032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <just-B1AE06.08022810032002 at news1.xs4all.nl>,
 Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> [ ... ] but I see noone has quoted 
> Tim's tutorial extension ("node 14"):

(Where "noone" is to be read as "Tim Peters", whose post I once again 
missed as it doesn't have a References header, which makes it show up as 
far as possible from the actual thread in my newsreader...)

Just


From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sun Mar 10 16:23:34 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 23:23:34 +0200
Subject: overloading a function
References: <mailman.1015509385.12266.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c8bdce5@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Actually you're getting the most flexibility if you're using
variable and/or keyword argument lists.

def foo( *args, **kwargs ):
   ...

Yours,

:M:




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 05:56:46 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:56:46 +0200
Subject: relational database?
References: <pRzp8.4373$hi7.15765@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <m3eli1m2dt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:

> What relational database is easy to setup and use with python? 

Gadfly.  It is a pure-Python database, and requires little
administrative interaction.  It does not provide good performance,
though...

Regards,
Martin


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Mar  6 08:03:35 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 05:03:35 -0800
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com> <4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203060503.113dee72@posting.google.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message news:<4dhb8u4abe8i9e811lgsi4ejf26fav2jk3 at 4ax.com>...
>   def ShowSize(raw):
>     if raw < 3000:
>       return "%d" % raw
>     elif raw < 2000000:
>       return "%dk" % (raw / 1000)
>     elif raw < 2000000000L:
>       return "%dM" % (raw / 1000000)
>     else:
>       return "%dG" % (raw / 1000000000L)

:-)
I thought only a sales droid would call 1000000 bytes a Mb.
(-:


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 27 13:39:52 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0600
Subject: Text to HTML algorithm.
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689E7@SRM201002>

Howdy y'alls.

Does anybody have an implementation, or know of one,
to format plain text into HTML?

I need to preserve a minimum of structure, such as
wrapping <p>...</p> around paragraphs separated by
at least one empty line and detecting unnumbered
lists (at least).

Thankyou very much for any help.
-- 
Gustavo C?rdova Avila
> gcordova at sismex.com
? 8351-3861 | 8351-3862



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Thu Mar  7 12:12:26 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:12:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
In-Reply-To: <6c80b2a1.0203070848.6a25b499@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020307091226.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> The user of SGMLParser needs to be able to handle invalid tags.  This
> handling may be complex or as simple as just ignoring it and asking
> SGMLParser to skip this tag and move along.  As far as I can tell this
> is not an option.
> 
> As a side note, the text error message thrown is particularly
> uninformation as it simply includes the first letter of the tag, in
> other words always '<'.
> 

match = special.match(rawdata, i)
if match:
    if self.literal:
        self.handle_data(rawdata[i])
        i = i+1
        continue
    # This is some sort of declaration; in "HTML as
    # deployed," this should only be the document type
    # declaration ("<!DOCTYPE html...>").
    k = self.parse_declaration(i)
    if k < 0: break
    i = k
    continue

is the offending code.  'special' is defined as re.compile(r'<![^<>]*>').

I see two options:

1) change the definition of special to a noop match.  Something that is
relatively cheap but can never match.

2) write your own parse_declaration() method.



From cuvy at yvahk2000.pbz  Mon Mar 25 18:58:24 2002
From: cuvy at yvahk2000.pbz (Phil Edwards)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:58:24 +0000
Subject: Python, CGI and PGP
Message-ID: <3c9fbf57@peer1.news.newnet.co.uk>

I'm trying to get a CGI app working that is supposed to be able to produce 
PGP signed messages. The command line equivalent of what I'm trying to do 
in the CGI script would be:

/usr/local/bin/pgp -z mypassphrase -sta -f < /tmp/sometext.txt > 
/tmp/sometext.pgp 2>/dev/null

This works fine both at the CLI and in a bash script, and produces a text 
file with the '-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----' stuff at the top and the 
PGP signature stuff at the bottom.

My recent attempts at getting this to work in the CGI script have been to 
simply run the same command as above, but using either command.getoutput or 
os.system from within Python. Doing this, I get the PGP signature block 
that I would normally expect to see at the end of the message, but nothing 
else. I suspect that the problem is down to the different execution 
environment which PGP sees when it's being run within my CGI script, but 
I've not been able to find anything in the PGP docs that has helped.

I've done some research into this on the 'net, but I haven't been able to 
find any recent references to PGP usage within Python. Some guys were 
prototyping a PGP interface for Python 1.2 back in 1995, but there doesn't 
seem to have been any further work done since then. Is there currently a 
PGP module available anywhere? If not, can anybody point me in the 
direction of a site that is using PGP and Python?

FYI, my version of Python is 2.1, and my PGP version is 2.6.3 (don't ask - 
just don't, that's all...you'll just start me thinking about it all over 
again, and I'll probably start to hyperventilate...)

-- 

Phil Edwards
Brighton, UK
================================================
NB: E-Mail address is rot-13 encoded 
Sorry to be a pain, but I get enough spam already...
================================================


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 11:21:54 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:21:54 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-145FF7.08215401032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list at python.org>,
 "Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote:

> Of course, if anyone actually cared about this syntax, we would have a
> PEP with a pro/con section, so we wouldn't have to reiterate the same
> arguments over and over again <wink>

I was starting to think it might be time to write a PEP,
but then Tim's comment about how he dislikes iterating over 3
discouraged me.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From cbbrowne at acm.org  Tue Mar  5 12:54:25 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:54:25 -0500
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org> <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m37koqgasu.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com>

The world rejoiced as Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
> Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> writes:
>> Makes pretty much sense to me.
>> Stackless can provide light-weight threads to all platforms.
>> There is no need to use OS threads unless you need it
>> for I/O.

> Do you think it's feasible to modify Python to use non-blocking i/o
> everywhere, and then simulate blocking in Stackless?  I.e. when a
> microthread does an i/o operation, Python would start the operation
> asynchronously, and the Stackless microthread scheduler would block
> the microthread til the i/o operation actually completes (detected
> using select or SIGIO).

That would indeed be rather cool; The Problem would be that this would
lose platform independence a bit further still.

There is a POSIX "aio" API; it is not uniformly implemented, and use
of it would almost certainly dictate a fair bit of OS specificity,
rather moreso than seems involved in "Stacklessness."

See <http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html> for more details just on what's
going on on the Linux side of things...
-- 
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@canada.com")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/wp.html
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Mar 27 14:10:16 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:10:16 -0500
Subject: Text to HTML algorithm.
References: <mailman.1017254742.8781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ykho8kKkXgRW092yn@gnosis.cx>                

|Does anybody have an implementation, or know of one,
|to format plain text into HTML?
|I need to preserve a minimum of structure, such as
|wrapping <p>...</p> around paragraphs separated by
|at least one empty line and detecting unnumbered
|lists (at least).

I'm rather fond of my Txt2Html utility:

    http://gnosis.cx/download/txt2html.zip

YMMV.

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/




From shalehperry at attbi.com  Thu Mar  7 12:33:55 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:33:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
In-Reply-To: <1015522226.444.21.camel@temp>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020307093355.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> I'm inclined at the moment to report this situation as a bug.  But I
> wanted to get some opinions as I'm neither an SGML expert nor fully
> confident of my understanding of the SGMLParser class.
> 

I agree this is a bug because the class name is SGMLParser yet it is concerning
itself with html tags.



From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sat Mar 30 02:28:09 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:28:09 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:39:10 EST."
             <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E16rDHV-0006AE-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

>    1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

I can do without it, but wouldn't mind it, as long as bools don't get
too strict (like point 4, below). IMHO, Python's traditional concept
of truth is much better than a Pascal-like concept of truth.

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

If str and repr were to behave differently from each other, I'd expect
repr(True) to return "1" and str(True) to return "True". Interchanging
that seems strange.

OTOH, I'm worried about backwards compatibility.

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).

'True' and 'False', please. It makes shadowing of the built-in values
by user defined variables much less likely.

>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>        me.

IMHO, `28+isleap(y)` is certainly better than `28+int(isleap(y))`.

Used judiciously, booleans in arithmetic expressions can improve
readability over conditional statements.

>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.

I'd expect operator.truth to be an alias for 'bool'.

If booleans couldn't be used in integer contexts any more, I'd prefer
operator.truth to return an int <wink>.

>     Because of backwards compatibility, the bool type lacks many
>     properties that some would like to see.  For example, arithmetic
>     operations with one or two bool arguments is allowed, treating
>     False as 0 and True as 1.  Also, a bool may be used as a sequence
>     index.

Counting the number of true values in a collection is a common
operation. Using bool as an index is also commonly needed.

IMO, allowing booleans in these contexts is a good thing (TM) in
general, not only for backwards compatibility.

>     Other languages (C99, C++, Java) name the constants "false" and
>     "true", in all lowercase.  In Python, I prefer to stick with the
>     example set by the existing built-in constants, which all use
>     CapitalizedWords: None, Ellipsis, NotImplemented (as well as all
>     built-in exceptions).  Python's built-in module uses all lowercase
>     for functions and types only.  But I'm willing to consider the
>     lowercase alternatives if enough people think it looks better.

Please make it consistent with Python, not with an arbitrary set of
other languages.

> For truth testing of a value, one should use "if", e.g. "if x: print
> 'Yes'", not comparison to a truth value; "if x == True: print 'Yes'"
> is not only wrong, it is also strangely redundant.

`if x:` is clear, concise, and generic. Adding comparions or
an explicit coercion to bool makes it ugly and more difficult
to read.

******

How will bool influence '__nonzero__'? Currently, Python insists that
'__nonzero__ should return an int'. Will this be changed to 'should
return a bool'?

As that would break existing code, I hope not.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From aahz at panix.com  Fri Mar  8 08:58:47 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 05:58:47 -0800
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6ag2n$sto$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181 at posting.google.com>,
les ander <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>why is a perl program faster than similar python program? 

Because it isn't?  Faster, that is.  Sure, one can construct Perl
programs that are faster than the equivalent Python program, but one can
certainly construct useful Python programs that are faster than the Perl
equivalent, particularly if one restricts the libraries to those that
come with a default install.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 19 03:29:45 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:29:45 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3C96F705.50908@skippinet.com.au>

Andrew Markebo wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I am messing a bit with my bookmarks (gonna sync them between a bunch
> of computers and browsers) and now comes the question.. How does
> os.listdir in the windows-compiled python handle international
> characters?
> 
> For me on my windows 2000 machine, to get them into UTF-8 format I do
> something like:
> 
> for filename in os.listdir():
>         utffilename=unicode(filename, "latin-1").encode("utf-8")

          utffilename=unicode(filename, "mbcs").encode("utf-8")

should work.

> p.s.2 what is the status on win9x? Give it up or ;-)

I *think* it still works when accessing a Unicode aware file system (ie, 
network)

Mark.





From cd.cd at wanadoo.fr  Sat Mar 30 09:44:06 2002
From: cd.cd at wanadoo.fr (Cyr)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:44:06 +0100
Subject: Problem with Tkinter
References: <a82cne$aef$1@wanadoo.fr> <m3pu1nui7l.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a848ft$i19$1@wanadoo.fr> <m3u1qycly2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a84j03$2km$1@wanadoo.fr>

Thanks a lot for your help ;-)

Cyrille





From mmoore at cablespeed.com  Wed Mar  6 12:27:26 2002
From: mmoore at cablespeed.com (Michele Moore)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:27:26 -0500
Subject: Tkinter: can widgets automatically resize to fit parent?
References: <mailman.1015424349.21272.python-list@python.org> <a65hvq$1fld$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3C86517E.8B2621D8@cablespeed.com>

Eric Brunel wrote:

> Andy Gimblett wrote:
> > I want my Tk widgets (some of them, at least) to resize dynamically
> > with the window.
> >
> > Trivial example:
> >
> > #!/usr/bin/env python
> >
> > from Tkinter import *
> >
> > class Application(Frame):
> >
> >     def __init__(self, master):
> >         Frame.__init__(self, master)
> >         self.action = Button(self.master, text="Go")
> >         self.action.grid(sticky=N+E+W+S)
>
> Two reasons why it's not working:
> - you didn't actually display your Application in its master. The
> "Frame.__init__" stuff does not suffice: you should also do a pack or grid.
> Then, inserting the button in self.master rather than in self should be
> useless...
> - you configured your button to take the size of its parent cell using the
> sticky option, but you didn't tell the cell to take the whole space in its
> parent. This should be done via the grid_rowconfigure and
> grid_columnconfigure methods to set the weight option on the cell.
>
> So here is a code that does what you want:
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> class Application(Frame):
>
>     def __init__(self, master):
>         Frame.__init__(self, master)
>         ## Actually insert self in its master
>         self.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=1)
>         ## Configure cell at (0, 0) to take the whole space
>         self.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
>         self.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
>         ## Insert button in self rather than self.master
>         self.action = Button(self, text="Go")
>         self.action.grid(sticky=N+E+W+S)
> etc...
>
> HTH
>  - eric -

And watch using both pack() and grid() to be sure
you are consistent in their usage per widget hierarchy
level. All widgets you manage on 'master' will need to
use pack() because you used pack() to manage your
Application object on it.  All the widgets managed on
the Application (Frame) need to use grid() because
you used grid() to manage the Button. Mixing pack()
and grid() at the same hierarchy level causes the application
to lock up and unless you've experienced this first hand, it
may be difficult to debug.



From writeson at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 24 19:08:09 2002
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 16:08:09 -0800
Subject: py2exe 0.3.1 hangs trying to remove build under Win98SE
References: <88bc63c6.0203191142.1926b089@posting.google.com> <a79ljo$jksjs$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0203241608.73522f11@posting.google.com>

Thomas,

Thanks for your reply, I'll try writing a setup.py script specifically
for my program and give it a try. I think I got it right in the one I
copied, but you never know. I'll give it a try as py2exe would be a
useful tool.

Thanks for your help,
Doug

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<a79ljo$jksjs$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>...
> "Doug Farrell" <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:88bc63c6.0203191142.1926b089 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm trying to package up a Python2.2 program that uses wxPython with
> > the py2exe system and I'm having no luck. I open up a DOS window (I'm
> > running Win98SE) and run the following command line:
> >
> > python pyexe.py myscript.py
> >
> > The pyexe.py setup script is something I got from ASPN that is a
> > generalized setup script for this purpose, I've listed it below:
> >
> > from distutils.core import setup
> > import sys, os, py2exe
> >
> > name = sys.argv[1]
> > sys.argv[1] = 'py2exe'
> >
> > sys.path.append(os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(name)))
> >
> > setup(name=name[:-3], scripts=[name])
> >
> >
> > At the end of processing, I get the message:
> > removing 'build\bdist.win32\winexe' (and everything under it)
> >
> > At this point the DOS window hangs and never returns. In fact I have
> > trouble killing it with the Task Manager. In addition, at this point
> > Windows Explorer no longer runs, it comes up, but the window frame is
> > empty. I have to reboot my machine to get full control back.
> >
> 
> Doug, I cannot reproduce this (at least with a trivial script under Win98SE).
> One thing I noted when I tried this: the build script cannot have the
> name 'py2exe.py', because in this case 'import py2exe' imports your
> compile script! You should rename it to something like 'compile.py',
> and be sure to delete any py2exe.pyc or py2exe.pyo which may have been
> created. I think this was mentioned in the ASPN recipe.
> 
> > The script does create the dist directory where I expect it and there
> > is a myscript.exe and accompanying DLL's and such there. But if I try
> > to run that program, a DOS window comes up with various tracebacks in
> > it about not being able to import various modules. The myscript.py
> > file runs fine in the interpreter. Anyone have any idea what's going
> > on here? I'm runnig py2exe version 0.3.1, so I have the latest.
> >
> Depending on the modules your script uses, py2exe may have problems
> finding them. You should specify them to be included with the --includes
> or --packages flag.
> 
> Thomas


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar 16 15:23:16 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:23:16 GMT
Subject: pythonic way of depth first and breadth first tree iterators
References: <mailman.1016242886.1030.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <UQNk8.8867$e33.530@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

An iterator can either be implicit or explicit.  If an object in a for
clause isn't an iterator, the interpreter will try to create one by calling
the __iter__ magic method via iter().  That way:

for x in iterclass:
    # do stuff

translates to this behind the scenes.

for x in iter(iterclass):
    # do stuff

You can also explicitly attach iterators via generator methods.

for x in iterclass.depth():
    #pass

for x in iterclass.breadth():
    # pass

will not be translated to  something like "for x in
iter(iterclass.depth()):" because the depth and breadth methods are already
returning iterators.

--
-

"Dave Reed" <dreed at capital.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016242886.1030.python-list at python.org...
>
> We're planning to use Python in our CS1 and CS2 courses next year so
> I'm beginning to think about the issues for these courses.
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typeiter.html states:
>
>   If a container supports different types of iteration, additional
>   methods can be provided to specifically request iterators for those
>   iteration types. (An example of an object supporting multiple forms
>   of iteration would be a tree structure which supports both
>   breadth-first and depth-first traversal.)
>
> I don't quite understand exatly what that is saying - what would be
> the pythonic way of defining/calling separate breadth first and depth
> first iterators for a binary tree class - i.e., is there a way to
> indicate which method to use when you make the call to iter() so that
> I could do something like: for node in tree('depth'):
>
> and
>
> for node in tree('breadth'):
>
> Or is that just implying that I can make a depth first class iterator
> class and breadth first iterator class that both support the
> corresponding next() method and do something like:
>
> d = DepthIter(tree)
> for node in d:
>
> where DepthIter is a class that takes a tree as a parameter to its
> constructor and has a next() method that returns the nodes in a depth
> first manner. And similarly, write a BreadthIter class?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 27 23:06:49 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:06:49 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
In-Reply-To: <a7qqhr$m5$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEGKOIAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Guido]
> "The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
> classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear
> code -- not in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death."

[Dale Strickland-Clark]
> I didn't see the original post but I *really* hope this was said in
> jest.
>
> Or is Guido getting writing software and writing novels confused?

[Aahz]
> Not in the slightest.  Guido was responding to constructs like this:
>
>     lock.acquire()
>     try:
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>     finally:
>         lock.release()

Actually, he wasn't.  That was my attempt to hijack the favorable mindshare
Guido attracted toward one of my own pet peeves.  What Guido was actually
railing against is code like this:

class XandY:
    """A class to wrap x and y values.

    Use the .get_x() method to get the x value.
    Use the .set_x() method to set the x value.
    Use the .get_y() method to get the y value.
    Use the .set_y() method to g^Hset the y value.
    """

    x = None   # default value for x
    y = None   # default value for y

    def __init__(self, x=None, y=None):
        self.set_x(x)   # set the x value
        self.set_y(y)   # set the y value

    def get_x(self):
        "Return the current x value, as most recently set by .set_x()."
        return self.x

    def get_y(self):
        "Return the current y value, as most recently set by .set_y()."
        return self.y

    def set_x(self, xvalue):
        """Set the current x value to xvalue.

        .get_x() returns xvalue if no other call to .set_x intervenes.
        """

        self.x = xvalue

    def set_y(self, xvalue):
        """Set the current y value to yvalue.

        .get_y() returns yvalue if no other call to .set_y intervenes.
        """

        self.y = yvalue

    def sum(self):
        "Return the sum of x and y."
        return self.x + self.y

followed by 50 lines of unit tests to verify proper operation of the trivial
methods.  This kind of numbing excess is self-inflicted (for a meaning of
"self" broad enough to encompass one's employer <wink>).




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Mar 31 18:07:29 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 01:07:29 +0200 (EET)
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <m33cygnzya.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0204010028160.5602-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On 31 Mar 2002, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:
> 
> > Just a random thought ...
> > 
> > Theorem:
> > ========
> > Assume specification of PEP 285. The following statements hold truth:
> > 
> >   True is One
> > 
> > and
> > 
> >   False is Zero,
> > 
> > where One and Zero represent integers 1 and 0, respectively.
> 
> It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is. Did you mean 'is' in the
> Python sense of checking identity? Then this theorem can't possibly
> true: type(One) is int and type(True) is bool implies One is not True.

Sure, this theorem could be improved for correctness by starting defining
the meanings of words.

I could not use "is" in Python sense because Python does not define
objects One and Zero (note the use "represent" instead of "are"), for
instance. I used "is" in a general sense that in some cases coincides
with the Python "is" (as Tim already mentioned, also the 0 is 0 issue).

> > Proof:
> > ------
> > According to PEP, True and False are instances of bool that is a subclass
> > of int. Therefore True and False can be considered as integers and it
> > makes sense to compare them with integers. If n is an integer then the
> > following statements hold
> > 
> >   True == n   only if n is 1
> > 
> > and
> > 
> >   False == n  only if n is 0.
> 
> That is correct. However, a==b does not imply a is b.

Sure. My main point with this theorem is that the above statements hold
even if n is an arbitrary python object ("is" in a general sense). 
Therefore I find objects True and 1 the same (and questioning the
necessity for introducing bool). They are not the same in Python
"is" sense but this is irrelevant (as an implementation issue): Python
"is" only compares Python objects and not the concepts that these objects
represent. 

Later being more important to me, though, using the former quite often
with None. (BTW, None has not always the meaning of False, but the
meaning of "don't know" or "default", like in distutils).

Pearu




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Thu Mar  7 01:38:46 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 22:38:46 -0800
Subject: hash(unicode(string)) == hash(string) sometimes (was Re: Why KeyError ???)
References: <mailman.1015477886.4663.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xeliwg9vt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> If you're indeed correct that floatish numbers have no use as dict keys,
> this routine is never executed, so a claim of "extra runtime" would swallow
> itself in embarrassment <wink>.

My solution to the "nine 9's" puzzle used floats as hash keys, so that
code got executed at least once :).


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 04:01:33 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:01:33 -0000 
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCD8C@intrepid>

> From:	Geoff Gerrietts [SMTP:geoff at gerrietts.net]
> I'm a parent, too, and there's a big difference between "daddy",
> "mommy", and the pronouncements that come from a child anywhere on up
> to 18 months and spoken language.
> 
> At three (in April), my son speaks more or less complete sentences
> with occassional nods to the rules of grammar. About 3/4 of the time
> my wife and I understand him. About 1/4 of the time, others can
> understand him. And he's pretty advanced for his age; a lot of parents
> guess him at older.
 
Ooops! OK, you *do* have kids. Sorry.

But I'll bet that your son has been making himself understood for some time,
and he isn't three yet. I *can't* agree that "For those first three years,
the child is almost completely incapable of making him or herself
understood."

And his 'nods to the rules of grammar' are almost certainly a lot more
accurate than you think.  Children his age get things right the vast
majority of the time. It's just that the errors stand out. Again, Pinker
talks about this in 'The Language Instinct'.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From s.ernst at web.de  Fri Mar 15 08:11:43 2002
From: s.ernst at web.de (Sascha Ernst)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:11:43 +0100
Subject: further infos
Message-ID: <a6srv3$tbo$00$1@news.t-online.com>

1. "command not found" is the error message. how can I get more detailed
infos?
2. the dev tools are ok, I compiled Ruby some days ago successfully

regards, sascha





From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Mar  6 14:00:43 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 20:00:43 +0100
Subject: [OT] Want to recognize pictures using Python
References: <a655p5$82t$1@rex.ip-plus.net> <a65im4$9bp$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91C9CBA88BF53cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote in
news:a65im4$9bp$1 at bob.news.rcn.net: 
> "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
> news:a655p5$82t$1 at rex.ip-plus.net...
>> I plan to buy a USB camera ... a bit with image analyzing. Nothing 
>> sophisticated, just color recognition ...

> Yes, PIL is a good choice.

and http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9326522/VideoCapture/ could help to 
get the imagaes from the camera.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From TBrixi at CSAS.cz  Wed Mar 27 09:41:57 2002
From: TBrixi at CSAS.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Brixi_Tom=E1=B9?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:41:57 +0100
Subject: Strange behavior
Message-ID: <414401922FF9D011BEC600805FEA07E301A865DC@XI0SXJ01>


Hello,

I have downloaded Python 2.2 along with win32 extensions.

I have tried some samples and tests (to see what's new)
and I have encountered some weird things when running e.g.

Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\test\testExchange.py


1. when running command prompt it always ends with 
   UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
   (caused by national characters - windows-1250 encoding)
   variable is of type types.UnicodeType
2. when running from Pythonwin IDE it goes through display everything 
   even with corrent font set but since then pythonwin ide is somewhat
   confused. On every pressed Enter key is sends the following to the
   interactive window and instead of correct newline-and-indent
   it inserts two new lines without indentation
------------
Firing event '<<newline-and-indent>>' failed.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\scintilla\bindings.py", line
141, in fire
    rc = apply(binding.handler, args)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\idle\AutoIndent.py",
line 256, in newline_and_indent_event
    lno = index2line(text.index('insert'))
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\idle\AutoIndent.py",
line 483, in index2line
    return int(float(index))
ValueError: invalid literal for float(): 83.0
-----------

How can I solve these problems (at least the first)?

Thanks

Regards
Tom



From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 17:24:07 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:24:07 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <slrna8s8f3.se4.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <8ivs8usmcdgklfkm3j28ogmagol0i20cvi@4ax.com>

On 12 Mar 2002 15:41:32 GMT, hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:22:18 +1300, Martin Kaufmann <martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>In general, there are at least 2 steps in a problem:
>- Figure out what to do (what should I do in what order to obtain correct
>  results, how should I organize my software).
>- Figure out how to do it fast enough.
>
>Python is extremely well suited for the first step. It is high level, so
>experimenting can be done fast, without digging for low-level coding errors
>(for example, the amount of code needed to implement a dictionary correctly is
>quite astonishing with ample opportunity to make hard-to-find errors).
>Being high-level also gives you the benefit that you can concentrate on finding
>a good algorithm. Use as much libraries of Python as possible, as they tend to
>be optimized for their task (and it saves you from having to code it).

But if I then want to change to C I have to write all the functions
for which I had a library in Python.

>If you program well, and not use too many dynamic features of Python, you can
>consider the code as a kind of prototype for an implementation in e.g. C.
>Also, selecting a good algorithm has in general more impact on execution
>speed than optimizing a bad algorithm.
>
>'Fast enough' in the second step heavily depends on your expectations and/or
>requirements. I always try it first, and if I think it should be calculated
>faster, then I think about speed.
>First of all, if you can break the computation in independant pieces, do so,
>and use more than 1 computer. If that is not enough, see whether you can use
>faster or different libraries. If that is not enough, then re-code the program
>in C/C++ (which should be not too difficult, since you already have explored
>the best way to implement the program using Python (i.e. you don't need to do
>step 1 again).

In our group we already have a similar program written in C which is
may times faster. I just started in Python because I wanted to know
how much slower it is and because I don't know C...

>As a rule of the thumb I use that I need to save at least as much time running
>the program, as I am spending on writing it.
>Thus if by re-implementing, I save 1 hour execution time, and I run it 10
>times, then I must be able to rewrite the code in 10 hours, otherwise I am
>wasting time.
>(if you want to learn a language, this rule doesn't always hold of course).

I will have to rerun it for a lot more than 10 times. And during a PhD
thesis the "wasting of time" is not always the biggest issue...

Regards,

Martin


From akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar 28 09:26:59 2002
From: akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 14:26:59 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa6a1j.mu3.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu at 4ax.com>, 
   Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> Absolutely. All of Mark's Win32 stuff are pretty much essential to
> many Windows users now, I would guess.

Any volunteers?

--amk


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 18 17:02:23 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 23:02:23 +0100
Subject: How to "hook" print statement.
References: <a75le4$gfe$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <m3zo15edqo.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> writes:

> Any clue to have this done as transparently as possible ?

I recommend to replace sys.stdout, and use isatty to determine whether
it goes to the console or to a file.

HTH,
Martin



From pythonmonkey at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  4 23:39:26 2002
From: pythonmonkey at hotmail.com (P.M.)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 20:39:26 -0800
Subject: Mac out of memory error on socket.bind
Message-ID: <b6522506.0203042039.3c260274@posting.google.com>

hi all,

I'm trying some simple python socket programming on my powerbook
(OS9.2) and I'm getting an 'out of memory' error when I try to bind a
socket, i.e.:

HOST = ''                 # Symbolic name meaning the local host
PORT = 50007              # Arbitrary non-privileged port
s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.bind((HOST, PORT)) # errors here

It only fails when my network connection is unplugged (I'm doing my
playing around while I commute) and works fine when I have a valid
connection.

Is there a setting under TCP/IP that'll let me do this sort of
localhost-only socket programming while I'm offline?

thanks,
jim


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Mar 21 14:27:20 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:27:20 -0800
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list@python.org> <Xns91D895B49DD95seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl> <mailman.1016735254.27977.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-BC2D59.11272021032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1016735254.27977.python-list at python.org>,
 Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:

> > >>> os.environ['OS']
> > 'Windows_NT'
> > 
> > No idea what it does on other platforms.
> 
> It depends upon whether the environment variable "OS" is present, so it's
> probably less reliable than sys.platform (doesn't exist on RH Linux, at
> least).

Another one where os.environ['OS'] doesn't exist:

>>> import sys
>>> sys.platform
'mac'
>>> import os
>>> os.environ
{}
>>> os.name
'mac'

Not sure how you're supposed to distinguish Classic from Darwin...

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 15:34:44 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:34:44 -0600
Subject: About deletion of variables in version 2.1
In-Reply-To: <a6b34h$foj$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMELODIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Juan Huertas wrote:
> Reading a large file and loading to a list:
> 
> f=open('c:/xx','rb')
> ls=[]
> while not eof:
>     ln=f.readline()
>     ls.append(ln)
> 
> This takes 5 seconds (reasonable)

This code is a little nonsensical.  Could you post real code
that can be tested?

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com  Sun Mar 10 05:47:52 2002
From: sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:47:52 -0000
Subject: Gurus, I wonder if you can take a look at this source code? Win32...
References: <a6drna$57s$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <slrna8lkjk.7hm.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <a6fdjh$cf1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Thanks  :)

G. Willoughby

"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:slrna8lkjk.7hm.gerhard at lilith.my-fqdn.de...
> G. Willoughby wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > Hi,
> >     I have started writing a text editor for Win32 platforms
>
> It works fine on Linux simply by not importing win32api. As far as I
> can see, you could easily remove all uses of win32api functions. Is it
> really needed for tooltips, for example?
>
> > and i wonder if anyone has a few minutes spare just to take a look
> > at the source code and give me a little constructive critisism?
>
> I didn't find much to critizize :-)
>
> I've seen this bad practise several times:
>
> try:
>     # something
> except:
>     pass
>
> A better way to do this is to only catch the exceptions that can be
> caught there, like IOError or whatever. Catching all exceptions makes
> the code difficult to debug and can hide errors for a long time. It's
> also a good practise to not only "pass", but log the errors to a
> logfile, or simply write the exception to stderr.
>
> Gerhard
> --
> mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
> web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
> public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
> reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda
x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))




From doug at pobox.com  Tue Mar 12 12:28:11 2002
From: doug at pobox.com (Douglas Garstang)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 09:28:11 -0800
Subject: doctest Hassles!
Message-ID: <10d46bdc.0203120928.7e9c708b@posting.google.com>

I posted a question yesterday about how to get doctest to interpret
output from the execution of an external program. It was suggested I
use:

ls=os.popen("/bin/ls","r").read()

instead of trying to use spawnv. Well, when I print the value of ls, I
get:

'
    example.py
    example.pyc
    tester.py

'

Notice the blank line at the end. Where did that come from? There
isn't a file with no name in my directory, so why would it print an
empty line? Also, why is the output in ONE column instead of across
the screen (as in a normal ls) when spawnv is used? All I did was
print the output of the ls command, but the output is different.

Now, in my code I have:

def tester3():
    """
    >>> import os
    >>> ls=os.popen("/bin/ls","r").read()
    >>> print ls
    example.py
    example.pyc
    tester.py

    """

It ignores the blank line at the end, as the docs say it will. On a
side note, I've had this problem before with python, trying to read
text config files. As soon as it hit an empty line, reading would
stop! Huh?

So, as a result, it ignores the empty line on the expect, but gets it
on the output, and the test fails!

What am I missing here? I would imagine that executing external
programs is central to testing, but it seems to be _really_ difficult.


From vng1 at mac.com  Sun Mar 17 11:28:11 2002
From: vng1 at mac.com (Victor Ng)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:28:11 -0500
Subject: problems with compiling python on osx
In-Reply-To: <1016203474.1366.80723.m10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA2E4B.AAB7%vng1@mac.com>

I got Python 2.1.2 to build under OS X 10.1.2 to get Zope 2.5 running.

Instructions can be found on www.zope.org.  Just search for instructions to
build Zope for OS X 10.1 (darwin5).

Mind you- i was lazy and I never ran 'make test' so I'm just assuming my
build works. 

vic

----

1. "command not found" is the error message. how can I get more detailed
infos?
2. the dev tools are ok, I compiled Ruby some days ago successfully

regards, sascha



"Just van Rossum" <just at xs4all.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:just-226E14.13535315032002 at news1.xs4all.nl...
> In article <a6sdqj$q70$06$1 at news.t-online.com>,
>  "Sascha Ernst" <s.ernst at web.de> wrote:
>
> > I've downloaded the newest python sources and tried to run ./configure.
I'm
> > within the right directory, the shell is located correctly, all
> > read/write/execute-rights are set, but even as a root I get the
> > error-message "command not found!". is there anything I forgot?
>
> 1) specific error message please...
> 2) do you have the proper dev tools installed?
>
> Just




From fabi.kreutz at gmx.de  Fri Mar  1 12:20:10 2002
From: fabi.kreutz at gmx.de (fabi.kreutz at gmx.de)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 17:20:10 GMT
Subject: SAX-Parser entity
References: <mailman.1014987964.15496.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5od8a$gc$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

Hi, Harvey!

Ahh, utf-16 sounds good.
Thanks, I have at least one solution:
Reading the xml-file into a buffer and convert it to utf-16.
minidom is then able to parse the whole thing and saves the strings in
unicode, which is fine again.

I do not understand the part with "If your parser supports...". As it seems
to me, the minidom default parser does not support ISO 8859/1 and even
unicode makes problems only.
I didn't know, you can reprogram the parser so easily.

Anyway, thanks a lot. Bye
	Fabian

Harvey Thomas <hst at empolis.co.uk> wrote:
> I would guess that your document is in ISO 8859/1 (otherwise known as
> latin-1). XML parsers must be able to parse utf-8 and utf-16 and may
> support other encodings. If your parser supports latin-1 then modify the
> XML declaration. Otherwise use the codecs module.

>> Problem:
>> I try to use the minidom XML-Parser to parse my little file 
>> in order to generate HTML Code.
>> Being german, I really like to use Umlauts but minidom does not.
>> ...
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/handler.py", 
>> line 38, in fatalError
>>     raise exception
>> xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: <unknown>:29:19: not  well-formed
>> 
>> where Character 19 in Row 29 is the occurence of an ?.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 19 11:03:26 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:03:26 -0500
Subject: [wxPython 2.3.1] what's going on?
In-Reply-To: <a775l6$kro$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCENHOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Pawel Oleksik]
> Playing with wxPython modules I've found something -- perhaps bug.
> Importing from wxPython.wx changes the calculation rules.
> Here is an example (strictly based on the random.py self-verification):
>
> (Linux, glibc-2.2.5, wxGTK-2.3.1, wxPython-2.3.1)
>
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 26 2001, 02:52:19)
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import math
> >>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
> 1.7155277699214135
> >>> from wxPython.wx import *
> >>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
> 2,8284271247461898
   ^

> Has anybody met this problem, or it's just my 'private reslult' :)

That comma in the output is A Clue:  somehow or other, importing stuff from
wxPython is changing your locale, which in turn causes "-0.5" to be treated
as 0 (the answer you got is correct for 4*exp(0)/sqrt(2)).

Do a google search on

    wxPython locale

for more clues; it may or may not be a GTK bug, and the most frequently
suggested cure (I haven't tried it) is to do

import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")

after importing stuff from wxPython.wx.




From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Wed Mar  6 09:35:06 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-15?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:35:06 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C8466F9.2080903@jerf.org> <_f7h8.5541$aP6.6480@rwcrnsc54> <3C851D41.3000902@jerf.org> <3C85446B.B389BB0F@spam.nada.kth.se> <3C855848.60302@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <3C86291A.4A2E9CA@spam.nada.kth.se>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> 
> Bj?rn Lindberg wrote:
> 
> > and yes, all *standards* *conformant* compilers will follow this practice.
> 
> Emphasis mine. That was my point. <wink>
> 
> On an intuitive level, that's one of those "depend on it when you have
> no other options" kind of features. Even when the standard specs those

No it's not; it's a completely well-defined feature.

Anyway the OP's original example wouldn't have been a beautiful specimen
of code in C++ either, but since it was only an example it doesn't
matter.

A common use for the technique in C++ is so called "sentry"-objects that
handle resources. A stack allocated object that acquires a lock or a
file handle for example. The object will be destroyed upon leaving the
function, and the lock can be released or the file handle closed.
Elegant and efficient. Now imagine two resources where one depends on
the other:

void a_function ()
{
	sentry1 s1;
	sentry2 s2;
	...
}

The sentry objects will be created and destroyed in the correct order
for this kind of use to be possible.


Bj?rn


From h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl  Thu Mar  7 10:23:22 2002
From: h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl (husam)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:23:22 +0100
Subject: Python and computer graphics
Message-ID: <3C8785EA.5010509@student.kun.nl>

hi,
can anybody points me to usefull resources (books, urls) about using 
python for computer graphics that help for building skills in this 
subject from scrash?

thanks in advance



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sun Mar 10 22:10:38 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:10:38 GMT
Subject: Porcess control on win32
References: <8beb91f5.0203101746.544e64dd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C204F.1080100@skippinet.com.au>

Ben C wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to achieve this scenario on a Win32 machine ... 
> 
> a. create a lot of new processes (ie. open application 'x' a number of
> times with different args)
> 
> b. each time 1 of the processes exits ... do something
> 
> I have looked at using somehting like this
> 
> ...
> 
> project_lst = ['application1', 'application2', 'application3', etc]
> 
> for application in project_lst:
> 
>     process, thread, pid, tid = win32process.CreateProcess(
>     None,
>     application ,
>     None,
>     None,
>     0,
>     win32process.NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS,
>     None,
>     None,
>     win32process.STARTUPINFO())
>     
>     win32event.WaitForSingleObject(process, win32event.INFINITE)
> 
>     print 'Application %s Has Just Exited) % (application,)
> ...
> 
> The problem with this structure is it spawns each application in
> sequence ... how can I modify this sructure to spawn all applications
> simultaneously and still have the print statement executed only when
> one of the projects exits?

Something like:
   processes = []
   for app in project_lst:
      p, t, pid, tid = win32process.CreateProcess(...)
      processes.append(p)

   while processes:
     # Wait for one, then remove that one from the list.
     rc = win32event.WaitForMultipleObjects(processes, INFINITE, 0)
     offset = rc - win32con.WAIT_OBJECT_0
     del processes[offset]

Mark.



From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Sun Mar 10 12:13:17 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:13:17 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org> <a6f0fl$u8n$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <NuMi8.333338$Aw2.26927026@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <a6f0fl$u8n$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
> I'd say if you don't know C, C++, or Python, then start with Python.
> Then C++, then C. In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns
> of design you absorb solving problems with C.

Ugh, I can see learning Python first but definitely learn C before
C++.  In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns of design
you absorb solving problems with C++.

Seriously, the point of using a low-level language like C or C++ is to get
next to the hardware, and it should be learned from that level first
IMO.  Otherwise, stay with a more productive language like Python.

> If you start with C, you will get used to a procedural way of looking
> at problems, and when you get to C++ you will be tempted to see it
> as just C with extra features. You'll have to dislodge yourself from C
> habits of thinking in order to "think objects" in C++. Coming from

Conversely, if you learn in the other order you'll find yourself thinking
of it as a limited version of C++ instead of a different language with
its own idiom.  The point of C is that it's procedural, small, and close
to the metal.  Viewing without the corrupting lens of C++ is extremely
valuable, IMO.

FWIW, I know more good programmers who learned C and then C++ than
vice-versa.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From barry at zope.com  Sat Mar 23 20:47:14 2002
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:47:14 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] [development doc updates]
References: <20020323222421.8D11C28696@beowolf.fdrake.net>
Message-ID: <15517.12322.143006.15447@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "Fred" == Fred L Drake <fdrake at acm.org> writes:

    Fred> If you can't tell what the changes are, visit a page that
    Fred> needs to be scrolled to see the whole thing, and try
    Fred> scrolling it!

Fred!  Very very cool.  Since I'm using the one true browser <0.9.9
wink> this works great.  Would this work with a side bar a la
ht2html's output?

-Barry



From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Mar 10 15:06:44 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:06:44 +0200
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203102138400.27800-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

Hi,

Is there a way to disable all assert statements inside a module,
and without calling python with -O switch?

Why? I have developed a module using lots of assert statements (yes,
they are all relevant). Now when it is finished, I found that
running python with -O switch the speed up is approximately 4 times. I
assume that this is due to disabled assert statements. I don't want to
remove all these assert statements because I might extend this module in
future when they will be handy again for debugging.

Next, I want to use this module from other modules that use it
extensively. But then, I would expect a remarkable slow down because of
the irrelevant assert statements in the first module.

So, I would like to disable the assert statements in one module while in
others, that are under development, assert statements are enabled.
Is it possible? I am using Python 2.2.

Thanks,
	Pearu



From uwe at rocksport.de  Mon Mar 25 06:57:40 2002
From: uwe at rocksport.de (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 11:57:40 GMT
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
Message-ID: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

[ This is a repost of the following article:                               ]
[ From: Uwe Schmitt <uwe at rocksport.de>                                     ]
[ Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem                            ]
[ Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.wxwindows                                      ]
[ Message-ID: <a7l70a$7s5pq$3 at hades.rz.uni-sb.de>                          ]

Hi, 

when I try the following function on a linux machine I get an input
mask consisting of a label and an input field. If i run it under
Windows 2k, the label does not appear, and the inputfield is rendered
into the first field of the grid...

Here is the procedure:

   def testtt(window):


        basicSizer = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)

        gridSizer= wxFlexGridSizer(cols=2)

        t=wxStaticText(window, -1, "Eingabe:")
        gridSizer.Add(t, wxALL | wxALIGN_RIGHT)
        tt=wxTextCtrl(window, -1, "", size=wxSize(100,-1))
        gridSizer.Add(tt, wxALL |wxALIGN_LEFT)

        gridSizer.SetSizeHints(window)
        gridSizer.Fit(window)
        window.SetSizer(gridSizer)
        window.SetAutoLayout(true)

        window.ShowModal()


Can anybody help me ???  I use wxPython 2.3.2.1 and Python 2.1...

Greetings, Uwe

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468


From brueckd at tbye.com  Sun Mar 24 19:37:19 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:37:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324115311.0457dbb8@202.95.131.154>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203241630560.15622-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tripp Scott wrote:

> can i generate this list:
>
>   [1, 1.1, 2, 2.1, 3, 3.1]
>
> with a list comprehension in a form of this:
>
>   [SOMETHING for x in 1,2,3]
>
> and without using side effects like this?
>
>   result=[]
>   [(result.append(x), result.append(x+1.1)) for x in 1,2,3]

You gotta give us more info on the 1,2,3 part. Does that just represent
a sequence of integers? If so, you can go with something like:

>>> lo, hi = 1, 3
>>> [x/2 + 0.1*(x%2) for x in xrange(lo*2, (hi+1)*2)]

-Dave




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Thu Mar 28 01:06:20 2002
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Petri Savolainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 06:06:20 GMT
Subject: Zope Install probs on Mandrake 8.2
References: <WGxo8.83$m12.69@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.28.08.11.15.814275.2239@nospam.yahoo.com>

Do you have Python development package / libraries installed?

You need them to build Zope from source.

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:16:38 +0200, Bo Vandenberg wrote:

> I'm trying to install Zope from source on a fresh install of Mandrake
> 8.2. I'd appreciate it if anyone here has advice for this.
> 
> 
> "python wo_pcgi.py" fails building the extension modules saying "cannot
> stat `/usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile.pre.in': No such file or
> directory.
> 
> This is indead true.
> 
> Is there something a beginner should do at this point?
> 
> Zope claims to run on python 2.1 will it run on 2.2???
> 
> Thanks in advance.


From jim at jim.jim  Wed Mar 27 17:21:20 2002
From: jim at jim.jim (jimh)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:21:20 -0800
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <mailman.1017265646.6616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7tgkv$t3m$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

>
> It sounds as though somehow or other you want to put the
> actual error number data for each class into MessageCatalog
> and give the 50 classes some interface for registering
> their error numbers with MessageCatalog.  Then MessageCatalog
> is oblivious to what other classes there are, except that
> at run time they tell it about themselves.  You could add
> another object for holding the error number data
> and have one instance per class---if that provides a convenient
> structure for accessing the error number data...
>
> susan
>

I will have to think about that one.  When a class accesses the
MessageCatalog, it may be requesting message text from _other_ classes'
errors.  Also, these are often called from cgi scripts, so they are run as a
one-shot deal.  Also(!), the case of an error is (theoretically) uncommon
and the MessageCatalog is only instantiated if an error occurs.  That way,
if no error occurs, there is no overhead with importing the MessageCatalog.

One thought I had was to split out all the error numbers from the class
files (kind of like .h versus .c files).  Then MessageCatalog.py would only
import the ".h" files and I wouldn't have the circular import reference.
However, that would add another 50(!) files.

Jim





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 16:32:01 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 21:32:01 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122> <slrna8svl0.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6m939$71o$0@216.39.172.122> <psozo1c7avg.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <a6oggh$8kp$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Mar 2002 10:20:19 -0500, Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> you wouldn't choose the same delimiter ;-) I.e., the main point of
>> using an (almost) arbitrary sequence of characters as a delimiter is
>> so you'll always have a choice of new delimiters if you need them to
>> wrap around text containing old ones.
>
>For comparison, in the Curl language, there is a concept of tagged verbatim
>strings, which look like:
>
>   |<tag>"...stuff..."<tag>|
>
>where <tag> can be any identifier (or nothing).
>
>If the tag is an integer, it specifies the number of characters in the string:
>
>  |3"foo"3|
>
>This is useful when you are generating code containing arbitrary string
>literals.
>
And for fast skips across the source by just a seek, if encoding is fixed.

>There are corresponding tagged multi-line comments as well.
>
I like the symmetry. And the count idea, which I've seen in other forms,
but not like that. I'll have to look at the multi-line format. Thanks.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 14:24:17 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:24:17 +0000
Subject: PyBEEP Project
References: <4e72770c.0203092131.457ad7@posting.google.com> <4e72770c.0203100958.31393b4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8ncn1.7i3.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 10 Mar 2002 09:58:22 -0800, Gabriel Wachob <gwachob at wachob.com> wrote:
>It was pointed out to me that not everyone may know what BEEP is. BEEP
>is an IETF spec (RFC 3080/3081):
>
>"
>BEEP, the Application Protocol Framework, ... offers advanced features
>such as:
>
>* a standard application layer that supports dynamic, pluggable
>application "profiles" (protocols)
>* peer-to-peer, client-server, or server-to-server capabilities 
>* multiple channels over a single authenticated session 
>* support for arbitrary MIME payloads, including XML 
>"
>
>and from RFC 3080:
>
>a generic application protocol kernel for
>connection-oriented, asynchronous interactions called the BEEP
>(Blocks Extensible Exchange Protocol) core.  BEEP permits
>simultaneous and independent exchanges within the context of a single
>application user-identity, supporting both textual and binary
>messages.

Does this mean it is some sort of RPC framework?

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Mar  8 21:45:37 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:45:37 +1100
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
In-Reply-To: <20020215164333.A31903@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <LCEPIIGDJPKCOIHOBJEPEEDAFEAA.mhammond@skippinet.com.au>

> I would appreciate any comments you might have on this proposal
> for adding a
> logging system to the Python Standard Library. This PEP is still an early
> draft so please forward your comments just to me directly for now.

Better late than never :)

I think the PEP looks good!

Re filters:  I agree that we need not go as far as ipchains, and no one has
said we should.  So change that text accordingly.  ie, the "The latter is
modeled" para can just be a quick not that log4j does it differently, but we
have opted for the simpler solution".

> "XXX How to defined a nice convenience function for logging an exception?
>       mx.Log has something like this, doesn't it?

I would suggest simply:
   def exception(self, msg, *args):
      This is almost identical to error(), but sys.exc_info() is
      called, and if available the exception details are appended
      to msg.  As sys.exc_info() is called, this is only useful in
      an exception handler.

If that isn't good enough, using traceback with StringIO is pretty easy to
create your own log message.

> XXX What about a .raising() convenience function?  How about:

Not convinced we need it.  An error() call is pretty good, and hopefully
will still stand out like a sore thumb.  In general, I would expect a
.error() call to be followed by an exception, or some other severe failure
anyway, so is kinda redundant.

>
>  What Logging Levels?
>
>    The following are the logging levels defined by the systems I looked
at:
>
>    - log4j: DEBUG, INFO, WARN, ERROR, FATAL
>...
>    The current proposal is to copy log4j.  XXX I suppose I could see
>    adding zLOG's "TRACE" level, but I am not sure of the usefulness
>    of others.

    I agree 100%  No need for TRACE either.  What is a TRACE message?  It is
a debug message.  Filtering should be done primarily via the module, not the
level.  (I loved "SYSTEM_UNIMPORTANT" - if it is unimportant, then don't
have it:)

> Static Logging Methods (as per Syslog)?

I quite like the idea of a simple:
            import logging
            logging.error("Something is wrong")

and worse, I quite like the idea of pulling namespace hacks so that a
reasonable module name is used.  Walking the stack until you find '__name__'
in your globals is a good default ;)

Good job!

Mark.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 18 17:39:17 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:39:17 GMT
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276@newsc.telia.net> <slrna9cpb2.ddl.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <p0ul8.33208$l93.6520713@newsb.telia.net>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> >the original code used Server -- after all, the object is
> >representing a remote server.
>
> Well, that's one way of seeing it; but it *is* an xmlrpc *client*, no?

no, it's a client support class.  your program is the client.

</F>




From mzou at bu.edu  Sun Mar 24 22:29:05 2002
From: mzou at bu.edu (ricky)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:29:05 -0500
Subject: question: python and UDP
Message-ID: <a7m5i4$6eb$1@news3.bu.edu>

I am trying to write a python program to connect to a proxy server which
takes the following header:
however, the proxy server doesn't seem to understand the header i sent to
it.
all the ips were converted into binary format:
serverip = socket.inet_aton(socket.gethostbyname(<hostname>))
and port number were converted to host byte order:
serverport = socket.htons(int(sys.argv[x]))

My question is how do i format the header so that proxy server would
understand the information I send to it.
the proxy server accepts UDP connection...

i'd approxiate it if u could reply to my email address as well
thank you
     0                   1                   2                   3
     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                 32 bit IP address for your client             |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                               | Server|                       |
    | 16 bit port # for your client | Flags |        Unused         |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                 32 bit IP address for server 1                |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                 32 bit IP address for server 2                |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                 32 bit IP address for server 3                |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                 32 bit IP address for server 4                |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    | 16 bit port # for server 1    | 16 bit port # for server 2    |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    | 16 bit port # for server 3    | 16 bit port # for server 4    |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                        Defined by you                         |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                        Defined by you                         |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                        Defined by you                         |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

The four bit Server Flags field specifies to which servers the packet should
be sent. Each bit of of the field represents one of the four servers. A 1
bit indicates that the packet should be sent to that server and a 0
indicates that the packet should not be sent to that server. For example, if
the field were set to 1110, the proxy server would send the packet to
servers 1-3 but not to server 4.





From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Mar 27 12:47:26 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:47:26 +0000
Subject: menu.add_command options
References: <mailman.1017243005.4274.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7ssro$30iq$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Paul Sage wrote:
> Tkinter:
> In the line:
> 
> file_menu.add_command(label='Load Form', underline=0,
> command=self.open_file)
> 
> Does anyone have a list of options that go with the menu.add_command?  I
> need to pass the frame to the method open_file, but I don't know how to
> pass that as an argument.

You can't do that via any option in the add_menu method. Use 
"command=lambda o=self, f=yourFrame: o.open_file(f))" or the trick I gave 
in 
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=a4alhq%246tp%241%40norfair.nerim.net

BTW, the answer to your original question (options for the add_menu method) 
may be found there:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
(in the part "Tkinter Reference" under "Menu", but just the option names I 
fear...) or there:
http://dev.scriptics.com/man/tcl8.3/TkCmd/contents.htm
if you know how to convert tcl-like syntax to Python-like syntax (usually 
read "option=value" where the manual says "-option value").

HTH
 - eric -



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar  7 19:58:15 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:58:15 -0500
Subject: Module Search Path?
References: <3c87e781.62223437@news>
Message-ID: <r0Uh8.391109$n73.12285738@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

<brobbins333 at shaw.ca> wrote in message news:3c87e781.62223437 at news...
> I want to store the modules I have written in their own directory.
> When I add it to the search path with sys.path.append the changes are
> made for one session only. How can I make permanent changes to the
> search path? I am using ActivePython 2.1 (PythonWin) in Win98.
>
> Bruce Robbins

See module site, and see if sitecustomize will do it for you.

Alternatively make sure the directory is included in the PYTHONPATH
environment variable, or fiddle in the registry (something your humble
sacribe prefers to avoid under most circumstances).

regards
 Steve





From shomon at softhome.net  Wed Mar 27 13:20:41 2002
From: shomon at softhome.net (skoria)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:20:41 -0000
Subject: Extending/embedding versus separation
Message-ID: <a7t2hp+v56@eGroups.com>

Hi

I have a system for processing usage statistics, for which most of the
hard work is done by a small C program which is very good at quickly
and with low memory usage, parsing logfiles, and putting the results
in hash tables.

Now I want to create fancy graphs, cross process the information
gathered, work on presentation, make trends and things easy to spot.
In short, I want to concentrate on other things than moving memory and
pointers around. So the plan was until today to write everything out
to a text file and process these files with python to display in html
or whatever other format comes to mind. 

But I've been reminded that python is good at integrating with C
programs through extension and embedding. This tells me that the other
way to go from here is to turn my c program into a python extension,
or somehow merge the two languages, so that I miss the step of saving
the C programs results to disk. (and potentially increase memory
usage?). I will be having a look at "programming python" tonight, to
see which, out of extending and embedding, is what I should go for.

Are there any other advantages to using this method, which apart from
sounding cool, might offer something I've not thought of? If it's just
"cool", then I'll skip it and just go the easy way, of keeping python
and C separate, and saving the hash tables to disk. But I'd love
people's imput, as this is an important stage in my little baby
program's life... :)

Thanks very much in advance,

Ale




From Mitch.Chapman at bioreason.com  Fri Mar 22 17:56:45 2002
From: Mitch.Chapman at bioreason.com (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:56:45 -0700
Subject: Namespace Qualification Question
References: <3C9B7C2A.20708@cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__>
Message-ID: <3C9BB6AD.B331E12A@bioreason.com>

Craig McLean wrote:
> 
> I've been messing around with python namespaces and I've run into
> something that I haven't been able to answer.
> 
> Is there a module assosciated with the file you started the 
> interpreter with, and if there is what is it's name?  For instance
> 
>  > python qux.py
> 
> I would have thought that there would be a qux module, and that it's
> name would be stored in the __name__ builtin.
> 
> If I was using the interpreter interactively would that change things?

When you use a module as your main module its name is "__main__".
This is useful because it lets you use a file as both a module in 
a larger Python application and as a separate command-line utility:
________________________________________________________________________
#!/usr/bin/env python

class Foo:
    ...

def main():
    """Do something useful with all of those command-line arguments."""
    ...

if __name__ == "__main__":
    """Program mainline for standalone execution."""
    main()
________________________________________________________________________

This convention can also lead to subtle bugs, in particular with
module-level state, in particular when your main() logic introduces
a circular import dependency with another module.  

One interesting example of this sort of circular dependency is
unittest.py, the XP-inspired (?) regression test framework which 
is included in the Python standard library.

You use unittest.py by importing it and deriving test cases and 
suites from the base classes it provides:
________________________________________________________________________
# MyTest.py
import unittest

class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
    ...
________________________________________________________________________

Then to exercise MyTest you do something like this:

$ python unittest.py MyTests.py

In this case unittest is used, in a single Python session,
as both the program mainline and a module providing services
to MyTest.py.

When the above command is run, unittest imports MyTests and 
then searches through it for test cases, suites, etc. derived 
from unittest's own base classes.  Whatever tests it finds, it 
runs.  

But in order to reliably detect subclasses of TestCase, unittest 
must import itself and ask 
	issubclass(obj, unittest.TestCase)
rather than just asking
	issubclass(obj, TestCase)

In the latter fragment "TestCase" refers to "__main__.TestCase".  
But obj comes from MyTests, so if it is a TestCase it will have
been derived from "unittest.TestCase".  As far as Python is 
concerned "__main__.TestCase" is a different beast from
"unittest.TestCase".  

So in order to reliably detect the test cases defined in MyTests,
unittest must import and reference itself under its "published" name.


This also has implications for modules which try to export
singletons or default instances of classes.  Any such module 
Foo which can also be invoked as a main program runs the risk 
of creating two instances of the "singleton", with interesting
results.

-- 
Mitch Chapman
Dang! I'm wordy today


From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sun Mar 24 05:20:34 2002
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:20:34 -0800
Subject: forgetting state
In-Reply-To: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHOEFLDJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com>

Some of the problems you may be running into can
be solved by using reload().  This is assuming
that your problems have to do with making changes
to your program between runs.

Also, avoid using    from mymodule import *
when mymodule.py is subject to change because
it will complicate your life somewhat.

Another trick is to put a reload in your modules:

  import foo
  reload(foo)
  import bar
  reload(bar)

Remember to remove the reloads before you ship!

If that doesn't help, launch your application
from outside the shell.  This is convienient if
you make an icon to launch your application.

I generally use the latter approach.  As far as
I know there isn't any good general solution to
all of the problems that occur when you rerun
programs from a python shell.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Emerson Wood
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 3:40 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: forgetting state
> 
> 
> Hi, how would I make a python interpreter
> shell forget everything that I've done
> and run a script or accepts commands as
> if it were first run?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I'm running
> on Windows, and using the IDLE which
> keeps a Python shell up all the time.
> It would be natural to use that shell
> to test my program, but I'm finding 
> problems running it twice.
> 
> -Emerson
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Wed Mar  6 05:43:03 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 02:43:03 -0800
Subject: SWIG: output file name for *.py
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203060243.4f73587e@posting.google.com>

I use

swig -python -c++ -shadow -o path/interface_wrap.cxx interface.i

This creates two files:

path/interface_wrap.cxx

and interface.py in the *local* directory.

How can I specify a different output directory for interface.py?

According to Lutz, Programming Python, 2nd edition, p. 1139,
also a third file interface_wrap.doc should be created.
Why is this file not created? Do I need an additional option?


Helmut


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 19 10:41:32 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:41:32 GMT
Subject: python 2.1.2, Linux and 'os' library:    bug or (bad) feature?
References: <a754no$r3j$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl> <m3d6y1ft1z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a775bf$jbl$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <M_Il8.33339$l93.6548600@newsb.telia.net>

Pawel Oleksik wrote:
> No way! And as I've written above: python 2.1.1,
> 2.1.0, and 2.0.1 work OK.

can you spot the bug?

$ more Python-2.1.1/Modules/posixmodule.c

static PyObject *
posix_system(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
 char *command;
 long sts;
 if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s:system", &command))
  return NULL;
 Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
 sts = system(command);
 Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
 return PyInt_FromLong(sts);
}

$ more Python-2.1.2/Modules/posixmodule.c

static PyObject *
posix_system(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
 char *command;
 long sts;
 if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s:system", &command))
  return NULL;
 Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
 sts = system(command);
 Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
 return PyInt_FromLong(sts);
}

</F>




From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Mar  8 08:24:59 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:24:59 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <3C87C057.4040902@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081604320.8297-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Ramkumar Kashyap wrote:

>My original intent for starting the thread was because I truly believe
>in CP4E.

In USSR in mid-1980s schools had similar (mis?)conception. It was said:
'Programming is second literacy!". And Computer Science was added to all
curricula at secondary schools. And teachers were to learn it. (In fact,
it was easier, because specialists came to schools from industry).

Now we have very different situation in Russia.  CS ("Informatics")
teaches children theoretical concepts + using computers (and Internet, if
possible). Programming is being taught only at some elite schools where
teachers themselves are able to program or pretend the are. Children are
distracted by colorful windows and interactive games from deeper joys of
creative programming work... Even 10-11 form schoolchildren clearly prefer
IDEs over "blockbox" of command prompt (unless they feel more dignity in
the later). No wonder!

CP is not 4E in Russia. Some high officials even dare to argue "Ohm's law"
is not needed in schools' curricula...

And those points of view are extreme.

CP is almost purely creative. That is why it has no logic (let alone
intuitive). And as everywhere creator need to know only building blocks
(bricks), almost everything else is up to his mind. Choice is
a foundation of creativity, IMHO.

So, CP4E goal will be fulfilled when building blocks will
be as clear, as bricks, and still as powerful as Python ;-)

It will not surprise me if hundred years from now auctions will sell
Emacs source at $1000000 and Van Rossum's works will be in the same
price as Van Gogh.

>In my freshman year, we were a total of 38 students in the EE
>major. When I graduated four years later, there were 12 of us, no women.
> I don't believe that programming concepts are more difficult/harder to
>understand and grasp than any engineering curriculum or for that matter
>physics/mathematics.

Hmmm... True mathematics/physics are harder than programming, of course.

>Somebody in this thread raised the point that the logic involved in
>programming in not intuitive.  I agree with that. The point I want to
>make is that there are programs like Hooked-on-Phonics, and other
>remedial language programs that are quite effective in raising the
>literacy levels among adults.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, March 08, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "People are always available for work in the past tense." _/




From fdrake at acm.org  Mon Mar 25 15:37:41 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:37:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020325203741.2CD5118EAD0@grendel.zope.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/maint-docs/

Documentation for Python 2.2.1 release candidate 2.



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar  6 20:05:03 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 01:05:03 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8df64.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
> I think you have made my point for me, that range is hard to use 
> correctly.  Did you try running range(n-1,0)?  What list did it give you?

>>> range(-10,0)
>>> [-10, -9, -8, -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1]

    And?  How does this prove your point other than some minor nit I'm sure
you're going to pick?  Point stands, there are other ways of doing it.

    While I've got your attention, let me ask you this.  In your notation how
would you do the following?

for x in range(n-1,-1,-2):

    That, unlike the allusion you made above, is not a nit.  

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Mar 29 18:09:09 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 00:09:09 +0100
Subject: Breaking String into Values
References: <HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns91E11B6D265Acliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

robert garretson wright <rgwright at ux.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in
news:HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu: 
> I am working on reading in a data file format which is set up as a
> series of lines that look like this:
> 
> 3500035000010104A Foo 45
> 
> I want to break up into a variables as follows:
> a = 35000, b = 35000, c = 10104, d = 'A', e = 'Foo', f = 45
> 
> My current code (auto-generated from a data dictionary) looks
> something like this:
> 
> temp = line[0:5]
> a = int(temp)
> temp = line[5:10]
> b = int(temp)
> temp = line[10:15]
> c = int(temp)
> temp = line[15:16]
> d = temp
> temp = line[16:20]
> temp = temp.rstrip()
> e = temp
> temp = line[20:23]
> f = int(temp)
> 
> with a bit more error checking around the int() calls.
> 
> Is there a better way to do this? The files have around 1000-8000 
lines
> each so I would like it to be fast. Is there a package around that
> someone has coded up as a C-extension to do this?

i had to remove one "0" from the input to match you results above

here's some abuse of the struct module
>>> l = struct.unpack("5s5s5s1s4s3s","350003500010104A Foo 45")
>>> a,b,c = map(int, l[:3])
>>> d,e = l[3:5]
>>> f = int(l[5])
>>> a,b,c,d,e,f
(35000, 35000, 10104, 'A', ' Foo', 45)

but i think your solution is easy to understand and fast enough for 
some thousand lines within seconds.

chris


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From christophe.delord at free.fr  Fri Mar  1 12:22:50 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:22:50 +0100
Subject: Python's Syntax
References: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FB8EA.8060005@free.fr>

Hi,

If your question is about block separators, just read the documentation 
for further details : http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/indentation.html

Lines with the same indentation are in the same block:

if condition:
     inst1               # do this if true
     inst2               # do this if true
else:
     inst3               # do this if false
inst4           # always do this

David Russell wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I can't get my head around Python's syntax for the if, for, while etc.
> statements.
> 
> I'm used to the classic:
> 
> if (condition == TRUE)
>     {
>         Do this
>      }
> else
>     {
>         Do this
>     }
> 
> I've had a look at a couple of tutorials for Python and it appears like
> this:
> 
> if condition == TRUE:
>     do this
> 
> 
> How do you tell it when to stop? I just can't figure out how to do it. Could
> somebody explain it to me please, even though I have a strange suspicious
> that it is one of the simplest deatils imaginable.
> 
> Also, another thing about Python's syntax. Are statements just sperated by
> their lines, or do they have some form of seperator (like a semi-colon)?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help, it is appreciated.
> 
> (Sorry if this appears twice, the first time I sent it I got an error so I'm
> not sure if both will show up)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Christophe Delord
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/



From upersad at tstt.net.tt  Tue Mar 19 21:23:55 2002
From: upersad at tstt.net.tt (Umesh Persad)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:23:55 -0800
Subject: arrays help
Message-ID: <000501c1cfb6$495eed80$77c75ed1@umesh>

Hi,
 I am just getting started with Python from a c/c++ and Java
background. I am programming a game and I wanted to
represent a gameboard by a double subscripted array.
How do I do this in Python? Thanks,

Umesh




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar 27 09:13:22 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:13:22 -0800
Subject: Primes....
References: <mailman.1017232814.7797.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x1ye6drp9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"FREDRIK HULDTGREN" <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> writes:

> I should have been more specific, yes I am talking about cryptology, and
> sadly enough I am runnign win2k, the unix stuff goes out the window. As
> for how large of numbers I am looking for, I'd say about 512bit numbers
> should do it(perhaps larger, depens on how slow it becomes). Got any
> URLs that explain Fermat/Miller-Rabin tests?

Fermat test:

  def probably_prime(n,base=3):
     return pow(base,n,n)==base

For cryptography sized random numbers this is basically 100% accurate.

The unix stuff just pertains to reading random #'s from /dev/urandom.
If you're running cygwin, that emulates it so it should still work.
Otherwise write a C extension that calls CryptGenRandom from the
Windows CAPI.  I'm hoping someone will submit a module that does that
to the Python library.


From aahzpy at panix.com  Wed Mar 20 14:36:27 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 14:36:27 -0500
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016646247.29851.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7aobr$er8$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016646247.29851.python-list at python.org>,
Nick Arnett <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
>Aahz:
>>
>> Well, well, well, long time no see.  Why not just use Verity?  ;-)
>
>I was wondering if that was you -- how many Aahzes could there be in the
>world?

Quite a few, actually, but only one or two others use it as something
other than a nickname.

>> Seriously, for this kind of work, it's quite likely that Perl can be
>> coded to be a bit faster than Python, but if you're expecting to need to
>> do a lot of iterative work on your algorithms, programmer time will
>> count for a lot, and Python will probably win there.
>
>I've actually done a lot of it in Perl already and I'm re-coding it in
>Python.  I'm astounded and very happy at how much faster I'm able to code in
>Python.  And I can read it a few weeks later without squinting too hard.

<ding!><ding!><ding!>  ;-)

>Say, how does it look to find a marketing weenie on the Python list?
>Actually, I've always coded, I just sometimes manage to supress the urge.
>The work I'm doing now is closely related to what I was working on when
>Verity lured me, back when the Web was a baby.

We get all types here; that's one of the things I love about the Python
community.

>> Given that it sounds like you want to create your own inverted word
>> index and do some sorting/searching based on word counts, it'll be hard
>> to get more bang for the buck than a real database.  Unless you're on a
>> shoestring, consider getting a commercial database; you should probably
>> also check to see whether MySQL or PostgreSQL will give you better
>> performance.
>
>I'm using MySQL; that's what the Perl stuff was talking to.

Well, in the "Java and Python" thread, someone posted an URL that said
that MySQL comes close to Oracle for speed, at least when talking to
Java:

http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3668,a=23115,00.asp

>Say, do you know if anyone has created a Python wrapper for VDK (Verity
>Developer Kit, for the rest of you)?  Eventually, when I want to bear the
>cost, I'll probably want to use it.  For now, though, I'm trying to stick
>with open source tools for anything that gets deployed.

When I was working at SearchButton.com, we wrote one, and it's quite
handy to use VDK from Python.  It was a lot easier than writing the
equivalent from Perl.  But the code is lost along with SB.com.  <sigh>
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar 18 13:48:42 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:48:42 +0100
Subject: Correct to use instance = module.__dict__[class_name]() ?
References: <mailman.1016473950.9924.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-AFD99B.19484218032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1016473950.9924.python-list at python.org>,
 Andy Gimblett <gimbo at ftech.net> wrote:

> def bar(module_name, class_name):
>     module = __import__(module_name, globals(), locals(), [])
>     handler = module.__dict__[class_name]()
>     return handler
> 
> Is this correct?  In particular I'm worried that __dict__ is not the
> thing to use to get at the class object, but only really because I
> don't recall seeing it used like this before.  Again, it seems to work
> fine - I just want to make sure I'm doing The Right Thing.  :-) All
> input appreciated.

This would be better:

def bar(module_name, class_name):
    module = __import__(module_name, globals(), locals(), [])
    handler = getattr(module, class_name)()
    return handler

Just


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 15:40:15 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 20:40:15 GMT
Subject: beginner question
References: <cDTn8.2512$RQq.540@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <a7p5o2$5oe$0@216.39.172.122> <xrVn8.3253$e94.1999@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <a7qmbf$b6a$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:29:33 GMT, "Qiang.JL" <dragon at china.org> wrote:

>
>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:a7p5o2$5oe$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:25:28 GMT, "Qiang.JL" <dragon at china.org> wrote:
>>
>> >for this line:
>> >
>> >>>> g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split())) or (lambda y: 'second')
>> >
>> I doubt if this expression is doing what you want. It is the same form as
>>
>>      g = a or b
>>
>> which will set g to a, unless a counts as false (e.g., None,'',[],(), or
>zero),
>> in which case g will be set to b irrespective of b's value. So your
>expression
>> is effectively equivalent to
>>
>>     g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))
>>
>
>sorry english is not my native language, but why equivalent ? are you saying
>the second condition is useless?
>
Yes, the way you have written the expression for g, it will be ignored.

The effect of the "or" in the statement

    g=(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split())) or (lambda y: 'second')

is to say

    Bind the symbol 'g' to the first term on the right hand side that evaluates to true.

In this case, the first term is a function defined by (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))
Looking with the interpeter, you can see:

 >>> (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))
 <function <lambda> at 0x0079FAF0>
  
So your statement could be broken down to a sequence like:

 >>> a = (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))
 >>> b = (lambda y: 'second')
 >>> g = a or b

Looking at the results, g becomes bound to the first term of the or:
 >>> a
 <function <lambda> at 0x007A1D70>
 >>> b
 <function <lambda> at 0x007A1720>
 >>> g
 <function <lambda> at 0x007A1D70>
 >>> g==a
 1

(Note that the a and g locations are identical at 7A1D70 vs the b location at 7A1720).
>
>> If you really don't want to use def and you want to use your original
>> expressions, use another lambda to tie them together, e.g., (OTTOMH,
>> not very well tested ;-)
>>
>>  >>> g = lambda x: (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))(str(x)) or (lambda y:
>'second')(str(x))
>>  >>> g('   ')
>>  'second'
>>  >>> g(g)
>>  '<function <lambda> at 0x007DB060>'
>>  >>> g(' a     bc    def')
>>  'a bc def'
>>
>> Notice that the ouside lambda has a body that both defines _and_ calls the
>internal lambdas
>> with the str()-protected arguments. The second lambda will only be called
>if the first one
>> returns ''. The outside lambda then returns the result from whichever
>internal one.
>>
>> But I'd say that's pretty ugly to read compared to
>>
>>  >>> def g(x):
>>  ...     return ' '.join(str(x).split()) or 'second'
>>  ...
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bengt Richter
>>
>
>if the original lambdas work like yours why you add another one outside ? it
>seems does the same thing.
Well, it only seems ;-) Look closely at the way it's written (see below).

>Weird i run into problem with this one ..
>
>>>> def g(x):
> return ' '.join(str(x).split()) or 'second'
>
>>>> g(0)
>'0'
>>>> g('')
>'second'
>>>> g=(lambda x: ' '.join(str(x).split())) or (lambda x: 'second')
>>>> g('')
>''            # why it prints '' instead of 'second' ??????
See above. You are still misunderstanding the meaning of your

   g=(lambda x: ' '.join(str(x).split())) or (lambda x: 'second')

statement. It does _NOT_ combine the two lambdas into a new function.
Instead, it chooses ONE of the lambdas according to the 'or'.

That is why I put another lambda around them both. So that the
outside lambda could use the 'or' to choose between their _results_.

Notice that the body of the ouside lambda is an expression that
actually _calls_ the inside lambdas:

   (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))(str(x)) or (lambda y:'second')(str(x))
                                  ^^^^^^^^                       ^^^^^^^^
so the 'or' is choosing between results, not between lambdas. To make a
function out of the above expression requires the outside lambda.

>>>> g(0)
>'0'
>
>what's wrong here ?

Nothing. Everything is working as written ;-)

When the result of a complex expression seems mysterious, try evaluating
smaller pieces interactively. Also, if you play with the disassembler, you
can see how the compiler translates your statements and expressions. E.g.,
comparing your g definition with my wrapped one:

 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(compile("""g=(lambda x: ' '.join(str(x).split())) or (lambda x: 'second')""",'','exec'))
           0 SET_LINENO               0 

           3 SET_LINENO               1
           6 LOAD_CONST               0 (<code object <lambda> at 007DAB90, file "", line>)
           9 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
          12 JUMP_IF_TRUE             7 (to 22)
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^-- here it's choosing the first lambda and jumping to 22 to store it
                            because the value being tested here is the lambda function itself,
                            not a result of calling the lambda, as in the correct version --
          15 POP_TOP
          16 LOAD_CONST               1 (<code object <lambda> at 007DAB10, file "", line >)
          19 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
     >>   22 STORE_NAME               0 (g)
          25 LOAD_CONST               2 (None)
          28 RETURN_VALUE
 >>>

Versus:

 >>> dis.dis(compile("""g = lambda x: (lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))(str(x)) or (lambda y:'second'
 str(x))""",'','exec'))
           0 SET_LINENO               0

           3 SET_LINENO               1
           6 LOAD_CONST               0 (<code object <lambda> at 007DB3A0, file "", line 1>)
           9 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
          12 STORE_NAME               0 (g)
          15 LOAD_CONST               1 (None)
          18 RETURN_VALUE

Here it only sees one lambda. It is not choosing between two to store with name 'g'. To see how
the body expression of this lambda looks, we can disassemble it. Note that this is an expression,
not a statement, so we have to tell the compiler 'eval' instead of 'exec':

 >>> dis.dis(compile("""(lambda x: ' '.join(x.split()))(str(x)) or (lambda y:'second')(str(x))""",'eval'))
           0 SET_LINENO               0
           3 LOAD_CONST               0 (<code object <lambda> at 007D9130, file "", line 1>)
           6 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- here we have the first lambda, but we're NOT going to JUMP_IF_TRUE here
           9 LOAD_NAME                0 (str)
          12 LOAD_NAME                1 (x)
          15 CALL_FUNCTION            1
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- here we call str(x) for safety to make the arg for the lambda
          18 CALL_FUNCTION            1
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- here we call the first lambda,, and now have the result '' or 'something'
          21 JUMP_IF_TRUE            19 (to 43)
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- this will not jump if the result was ''. Here we may go on to the second lamda
          24 POP_TOP
          25 LOAD_CONST               1 (<code object <lambda> at 007D91C0, file "", line 1>)
          28 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- here we have the second lambda
          31 LOAD_NAME                0 (str)
          34 LOAD_NAME                1 (x)
          37 CALL_FUNCTION            1
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- call str(x) for safety as before
          40 CALL_FUNCTION            1
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- here we call the second lambda
     >>   43 RETURN_VALUE

For the code of the lambda bodies:
 >>> dis.dis(compile("""' '.join(x.split())""",'','eval'))
           0 SET_LINENO               0
           3 LOAD_CONST               0 (' ')
           6 LOAD_ATTR                0 (join)
           9 LOAD_NAME                1 (x)
          12 LOAD_ATTR                2 (split)
          15 CALL_FUNCTION            0
          18 CALL_FUNCTION            1
          21 RETURN_VALUE
and
 >>> dis.dis(compile("""'second'""",'','eval'))
           0 SET_LINENO               0
           3 LOAD_CONST               0 ('second')
           6 RETURN_VALUE

HTH. BTW, why did you choose lambda to define your g function? lambdas in Python
are limited to a single expression body, so it is very constraining, and you
wind up writing hard-to-read code if you need to do anything complex.

Immediately binding to a symbol like your 'g' just begs for using def instead.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jason at jorendorff.com  Thu Mar 14 07:24:04 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:24:04 -0600
Subject: Hexadecimal bytes to integers
In-Reply-To: <3C908ADF.7040009@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEFPDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

pekka wrote:
> How can I convert messages below to list of bytes:
> 
> message = 0x01040000000271
> or
> message = 0104000000A271
> to
> m = [0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,'A',2,7,1]

Well, if it's a string then you can do this.

  >>> message = '0104000000A271'
  >>> m = [ int(b, 16) for b in message ]
  >>> m
  [0, 1, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 10, 2, 7, 1]

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From andreas at mtg.co.at  Wed Mar 13 14:15:39 2002
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:15:39 +0100
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org>
	<3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com>
	<slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <20020313201539.2995aad0.andreas@mtg.co.at>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:10:58 +0000 (UTC)
Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote:

>       Ask yourself which query is clearer:
> 
>       (1) db.query("""SELECT    foo, bar
>                       FROM      %s
>                       WHERE     rsrc_id = %s
>                       AND       name = '%s'" % (table, rsrc_id, name))
> 
>       Or:
> 
>       (2) qry = istring("""SELECT   foo, bar
>                            FROM     $table
>                            WHERE    rsrc_id = $rsrc_id
>                            AND      name = $.name""")
>           db.query(qry)
> 
And what about:
db.query("""SELECT   foo, bar
            FROM     %(table)s
            WHERE    rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)d
            AND      name = '%(name)s'""" % locals())

pure standard Python :)

Andreas



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 19:28:30 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:28:30 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:08:57 -0800 (PST), Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
>I am a little confused.
>
>Your proposal starts with the claim that people are looking for a natural way
>to loop over a range of integers.

How about:

   for i = 1 to 10:

or

   for i is 1 to 10:

I think these are both equally good and both much preferable over 
the horrible

   for 1 <= i <= 10:

which I can only assume is someone's sick idea of a joke.

This syntax could easily be extend, to allow a step other than 1:

   for i = 1 to 10 step 3:


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From garry at sage.att.com  Mon Mar  4 10:16:42 2002
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:16:42 GMT
Subject: Hosting
References: <283adf56.0202201551.7026d548@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C838FDA.5016804F@sage.att.com>

Kevin Dahlhausen wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know of an inexpensive web host that allows compilation
> and use of Python extensions from  your own directory?

i've been happy with http://www.your-site.com/

50 MB Disk Space, 25 POP3 E-Mail Accounts,
6 Gigs Transfer, Daily Tape back-ups,
E-Mail Control Panel, Frontpage 2000 Extensions,
Private Logs, RealAudio & RealVideo
Detailed Statistics, 99.9% Guaranteed Uptime,
24/7 FTP Access, your own cgi-bin directory.

i can login using telnet or ssh and futz around with 
directory structures, compile code, etc.  i left my
previous host because their support was poor.  these
folks have been very responsive, the few times i've had
questions.

-- 
Garry Hodgson                   Let my inspiration flow
Senior Hacker                      in token rhyme suggesting rhythm
Software Innovation Services    that will not forsake me
AT&T Labs                          'til my tale is told and done.
garry at sage.att.com


From billbobill at web.de  Thu Mar 28 15:58:44 2002
From: billbobill at web.de (pitbill)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:58:44 +0100
Subject: Running zope as a WIN32 service
Message-ID: <a8006g$akm$1@news.online.de>

Hi there,

I've installed Zope 2.4 two weeks ago and didn't choose to run Zope as a
service :(
Now I want to run Zope as a service, because I'm bored of starting it via
the batch file.

Can someone tell me how I can do this?


Thx a lot
pitbill




From Dag at animagicnet.no  Wed Mar 13 06:22:08 2002
From: Dag at animagicnet.no (Dag)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 11:22:08 GMT
Subject: module import in cgi scripts
Message-ID: <slrna8ugie.tc.Dag@omally.animagicnet.no>

I'm trying to write a cgi script in python but I'm having a lot of
problems importing modules.

I've simplified my script down to
#!/usr/bin/python2.2
import pg
print "hello\n"

if I run it from the command line it prints "hello" as expected,
but if I put it in my cgi-bin directory and access it from a web
browser the web server returns Internal Server Error and the 
error log says:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/www/cgi-bin/summarypie.py", line 4, in ?
    import pg
ImportError: No module named pg

I have checked and double checked and the pg modules is in the
python sys.path.  What's wrong?

I'm running this on Apache 1.2.23 on linux.

Dag


From jcromwell at ciena.com  Thu Mar 14 13:52:50 2002
From: jcromwell at ciena.com (Cromwell, Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:52:50 -0800
Subject: fun codeop hack
Message-ID: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00243@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>

This is fun.  For simplicity, also add this routine to codeop.py:
def addMacro(pattern, result):
    import re
    patRe = re.compile(pattern)
    def _macro(string):
        return patRe.sub(result, string)
    Compile.macros.append(_macro)

Now you can do this:
>>> import codeop
>>> codeop.addMacro(r'for\s+(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)\s+to\s+(\d+)\s*:', r'for \1 in
range(\2, 1 + \3):')
>>> for i = 1 to 6:
... 	print i
... 	
1
2
3
4
5
6
--Jeremy Cromwell


-----Original Message-----
From: logistix [mailto:logstx at bellatlantic.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:05 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: fun codeop hack


Replace the Compile class with the following:

class Compile:
    """Instances of this class behave much like the built-in compile
    function, but if one is used to compile text containing a future
    statement, it "remembers" and compiles all subsequent program texts
    with the statement in force."""
    macros = []
    def __init__(self):
        self.flags = 0

    def __call__(self, source, filename, symbol):
        for macro in Compile.macros:
            source = macro(source)
        codeob = compile(source, filename, symbol, self.flags, 1)
        for feature in _features:
            if codeob.co_flags & feature.compiler_flag:
                self.flags |= feature.compiler_flag
        return codeob

============================
Now you can do all kinds of fun stuff like this
in IDLE and PythonWin
============================
PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import re
>>> forRe = re.compile(r'for\s+(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)\s+to\s+(\d+)\s*:')
>>> def newFor(string):
...  return forRe.sub(r'for \1 in range(\2, 1 + \3):',string)
...
>>> import codeop
>>> codeop.Compile.macros.append(newFor)
>>>
>>> for i = 1 to 6:
...  print i, i*i
...
1 1
2 4
3 9
4 16
5 25
6 36
>>>

PS. For the record I'm perfectly happy with current for loop syntax.  Just
thought it was a good example



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From jjd at enteract.com  Wed Mar  6 10:03:30 2002
From: jjd at enteract.com (jim dutton)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:03:30 GMT
Subject: Brenda Lee Ehmka has forgotten about Kevin Ehmka
References: <d1fdb735242f05016e40b1d8743a911d@xganon.com>
Message-ID: <a65b42$hdk$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

In article <d1fdb735242f05016e40b1d8743a911d at xganon.com>,
xganon  <nobody at xganon.com> wrote:
>Brenda, do you wash your hands and your cunt after you masturbate, or do you
>leave your own skank all over yourself, pretending it's Jackie Tokeman's jism?
>

 Steve chaney Brenda is out of your league. Get over her.

=========================================================================
Visit a homepage:
www.bishopdutton.org 
Read about the internets biggest kook/pedophile/obese/
chronicly unemployed/women beater. ie the worst of the internet:
http://www.pat-acceptance.org
Feed blobbi the psychopath a hog
http://pat-acceptance.org/bobbi.html

=========================================================================
**whoop whoop chany alert**
now me, i wouldnt call chanby a philistine. 

he's a fanboy. an angry one ... much like the angry ape in the passage
from Measure For Measure that i quoted above. and accordingly we see
chabny once again adopting the cartoontoothed battle-postures of Quake
Arena in order to give his inferiority complex a temporary boner, a
sad, tiny, angry, miniature boner that will last long enough to drop
doomed legacyless chanbyseed across multiple pages of the japanese
preteen rape comix that he holds so defensively close to his heart. 
-cb

 >Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 19:21:16 -0600 (MDT)
 >From: What happens if I press THIS button? <anayat at math.enmu.edu>
 >To: Talk-List <talk-list at leba.net>
 >Subject: This is the side of Tawnya that GunHed won't tell anyone. (snip)
 >There was a lot that caused me to no longer want to be with Steve.  Some
 >of it was the fact that he was too .. rigid.  To me, he had no sense of
 >humour and he took all my questions to be personal attacks.  Yes, I
 >admit that I was a bitch to him for the last year.  That's because I did
 >not want to be with him.  Since April of '94, I told him that I wanted
 >out of the relationship.  But he wouldn't let me go.  He refused to let
 >me leave him even though he knew I wasn't happy with him.  So, I started
 >arguments at any opportunity I could.  I made his life a living hell
 >trying to get him to let me go, but he wouldn't. (snip)
 >It was almost fateful the night that Steve and I got into a monstrous
 >argument.  It was a stupid argument over which wordprocessor was better:
 >WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS or MS-Word6.0.  For nearly 2 hours, we argued.
 >Finally, Steve cut the "TALK" session that we were holding at 6:58pm,
 >MST, on Thursday, March 9th.  Since I had a class at 7, I simply logged
 >out and went to class.  I came back at 10pm, MST, and there was a very
 >nasty letter in my box saying that I "fucked up" and he was leaving me
 >because "he was tired of my bullshit and how I was treating him like
 >shit".  It was then that I realized that I was finally free of him.  I
 >didn't leave him, he left me. (snip)
 >Monday morning when I went back online, I found out that Steve had
 >started spreading that I cheated on him.  I tell you this.  I did not
 >cheat on him.  It was not until the 10th of March, the day AFTER Steve
 >left me, that I finally agreed to go out with John.  AFTER he had left
 >me.
 >
 >Then, he swore to me that if I did not leave John then he would come
 >after me with a shotgun.  Now that seems a little farfetched as he won't
 >come to New Mexico, where I have always lived and he also swore that if
 >I came to California, then he would have a shotgun ready for me and/or
 >have me arrested.
 >
 >But for what?  I never once said that I would go see him, and I don't
 >think that he owns all of California.  He has threatened to do too many
 >things to me, anything from Netdeath to reality death.  And this hasn't
 >been just because I left him, but because I wasn't lett him control me
 >any longer.
 >
 >When he came here in January of '94, it was a happy time.  Until I saw
 >that he lived for control.  I went on IRC one night just to check my
 >mail and to say Hi to anyone I knew, I was kicked off by a dork who had
 >taken over #talk.  But because I didn't go into catatonics, Steve went
 >crazy.
 >
 >He stomped around my room with fists clenched and there was a wild look
 >in his eyes.  Now I'm 6' and weigh approximately 200 (give or take 5
 >lbs) lbs and I know how to defend myself.  However, I was afraid of what
 >Steve was going to do as he slammed his fist against the wall (which
 >caused it to boom out loudly) and I knew that if he were to strike me, I
 >wouldn't be in a good position to do anything against him considering
 >he's 6'0 and weighs nearly 300lbs.  Basically, I was not safe with him,
 >or so I felt.
 >
 >Probably by now, all of you are bored stiff.  I admit that this is not
 >what you designed this talk-list for.  But please, realize this.  I did
 >NOT cheat on Steve.  He dumped me and there was someone here who was
 >willing to go out with me.  John is here, with me, in the same area as I
 >am.  He's not pushing marriage on me.  Steve was going to make me either
 >have his children or raise them, whereas I didn't want either.  Also,
 >John shares my love for animals, whereas Steve would rather seem them as
 >roadkill. (snip)
 >I leave the judgement up to God's hands, as we humans are too flawed to
 >judge ourselves.  Only the Purest may decide.
 >
 >Toni A. Anaya










From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar  6 14:29:49 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:29:49 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
Message-ID: <OF4C71248D.82962788-ON88256B74.00694BF5@i2.com>

[huaiyu]
> "spam".append("eggs")
> x, y, z = "d"
> x, y, z = 3
> [f(x) for x in (4 in 3) in (2 in 3) if x in (x+1 in x*2)] # just for fun.
:-)

Fun?  Ok, if you say so.

But just to make sure I understand your point, I guess you are saying the
above is bad because today's equivalent is more clear?

[f(x) for x in range((4 in range(3))) in range((2 in range(3))) if x in
range((x+1 in range(x*2)))]

Would you -- or any members of your immediate family -- really try to put
anything like this in production code? <wink>

Can you suggest a less contrived example that might be a problem?

Jim




From lac at strakt.com  Wed Mar 27 06:07:45 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:07:45 +0100
Subject: list comprehension question 
In-Reply-To: Message from Peter Hansen <peter@engcorp.com> 
   of "Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:33:57 EST."
Message-ID: <200203271107.g2RB7jrq014160@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Laura Creighton wrote:
> > 
> > >Peter Hansen:
> > > >   Neil
> > > >
> > > > PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code
> > >
> > > If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.
> > >
> > > And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.
> > >
> > > -objectifying-tim-ly yr's,
> > > Peter
> > 
> > Tisk tisk.  Only half of the apologising you do for the other person.
> > The other half you do for yourself.
> 
> Not sure I understand the sentiment, but perhaps it would have
> helped you if I included an explicit smiley?  That _was_ a joke.
> Happily, I think from Tim's reply he understood and took it that way.
> (The reference to Asimov might be obscure to some.  Sorry.)
> 
> Thanks for the gentle advice though. :)
> 
> -Peter

Ick, i thought that _was_ from Asimov, but now that I looked that up,
it isn't there.  So the new question is -- where did I read that?  And
clearly a long time ago ... I haven't been to the tree I remember reading
the book in for at least 25 years ....

Sorry about that,
Laura Creighton



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Mar  9 11:15:22 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:15:22 GMT
Subject: How can I lock a file in Windows?
References: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <uyqi8.24010$n4.4643918@newsc.telia.net>

A.Newby wrote:

> I am writing a cgi based, html chat script in Python. Basically, it takes
> input from people's browsers, writes it to a text file, then displays the
> contents of that file back to everyone. Simple.
>
> Problem is I need to be able to lock the text file during the write
> procedure, so that only one person can write to it at a time.
> Unfortunately, not having access to a Unix server atm, I'm using Windows.
> That means I don't have the fcntl module, which means I can't use flock to
> lock the file.
>
> Is there another way I can lock the file in Windows?

did you look under "MS Windows Specific Services" in the
library reference?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-msvcrt.html
=> "file operations"

something like this should work:

def update(filename, new_content):
    file = open(filename, "r+")
    # look from current position (0) to end of file
    msvcrt.locking(file.fileno(), msvcrt.LK_LOCK, os.path.getsize(filename))
    file.seek(0)
    file.write(new_content)
    file.close() # unlocks the file

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From p.magwene at snet.net  Sat Mar 23 10:28:24 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:28:24 GMT
Subject: The IDE is important too [was Develop-test-debug cycle]
References: <crnn9u4gf5ferfvhrp4o5ddjcob2ila7s6@4ax.com> <pan.2002.03.22.21.15.28.962107.56216@snet.net> <uuqo9us079r79d5mpnm407i0vmvbf2ebbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.23.10.28.24.997336.66580@snet.net>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:54:59 -0500, Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:



> Thats a daft response and barely worth the time to reply but as it's a
> Saturday and I'm feeling chilled out I'll spell it out to you...
> 
> I'm sure most PEPs originate from users asking for new features. The
> language is unlikely to evolve without suggestions such as these.
> 
> I know that my experiences are not unique. I'm not suggesting anything
> that wouldn't benefit the language in general.

Thank you for taking valuable time out of your develop-test-debug cycle to
to reply to my lowly comments....

I'm afraid the only daftness is to assume that the addition of those
features you find useful should be prioritized, and that failure to do so
relegates Python to the status of "a toy language for small scripts and
noddy programs."

You'll note that many of the PEPs that have made it into the language did
so because the person(s) who championed that particular PEP provided a
reference implementation.


>>Since it's open source why don't YOU implement the cool ideas you've
>>suggested, submit 'em back to the community, and WE can all be four
>>times more productive?
> 
> I'd love to have the time but I'm spending it all in the
> develop-test-debug cycle at the moment.

Translation: my time is valuable, and I'd rather spend it on other tasks
;)

There's nothing wrong with that, of course. Most of us find ourselves to
be in that situation - we'd all love to give back more but don't always
have the time.

Ciao,
Paul


From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Wed Mar  6 18:27:45 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:27:45 +0100
Subject: Detect Version of PyQT Bindings?
Message-ID: <3C86A5F1.49E69E0E@gmx.de>

Hi,

does anybody know how I can detect the version of the python QT
bindings? (Not the version of QT itself)
I want to use qt canvas. Version 3.0 requires an extra:
from qtcanvas import *
but with older versions this was included with "from qt import *"

OK, I can do it this way:

try
    from qtcanvas import *
except:
    pass

any better ideas?

Ingo




From oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl  Mon Mar 18 11:30:48 2002
From: oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl (Pawel Oleksik)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:30:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python 2.1.2, Linux and 'os' library:    bug or (bad) feature?
Message-ID: <a754no$r3j$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>


Hi Snakes Tamers!


Is this a bug there in P2.1.2 librariers?

When I call:

    os.execv('/usr/X11R6/bin/X',('X',':'+`display`,))

I do expect in the /proc/<PID>/cmdline a string like:

    'X\x00:'+`display`+'\x00'

and in P2.0/P2.1.1 is that.

What I got with P2.1.2 was: '.X\x00:'+`display`+'\x00'
                            ^^^

Is that a punishment for ours bad behaviour, or what?
Has anybody met this problem? Could you carry out tests with P2.2?


best regards
p.o.



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Mar 13 10:47:27 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:47:27 +0000
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
Message-ID: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>

Some tens (or hundreds - I lost count already) of posts ago, someone
asked what was the wartiness of the range (and by extension, of xrange)
builtin. The question sunked in my brain, and last night it resurfaced
back with an accompanying answer. Actually, the title is just a bait: it
should be named, Why I think the use I make of range is a wart.

For starters, range (and xrange) is a perfectly sensible, reasonable and
useful buit-in. But the biggest use I make of it is in iterating through
a list, e.g. as in

for index in range(len(mylist)):
    <whatever>

and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
myself doing this quite often.

Now, a list is not just a pile of objects, it is a pile of objects plus
an implict order on them. In more mathematical terms, it is an ordinal,
a set with a total order in it. And in the above loop, I am using range
to get at this order, in other words, I am not using all the information
that is implicit in the mylist object, quite the opposite, I am doubling
it.

So, syntactic issues aside - btw I was a fan of PEP 276, oh well... -
this, for me, is the wartiness of range.

These are just my two cents on it. Feel free to bash and knock down my
comments.

Gon?alo Rodrigues

P.S: PEP 279 proposes adding indexed to generators which would "clean"
the above wart.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 12:36:02 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:36:02 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com> <79c178a9.0203310830.6ec5acd0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a87he2$f97$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <79c178a9.0203310830.6ec5acd0 at posting.google.com>,
Chirag Wazir <cwazir at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>IMHO it's very difficult to choose three specific extensions without
>deciding an application domain. There are just so many goodies out
>there :-)

Well, yeah.  Note that I've already included the Big Three; the question
is what to include after that.

>If it's of any use to you, I did an introductory two hour Python
>seminar at my local ACM chapter and I've put up the slides (which
>contain a list of resources, extensions & applications) at my home
>page - http://chirag.freeshell.org

Thanks!  I'll be looking at it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From aahzpy at panix.com  Wed Mar 20 13:34:32 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 13:34:32 -0500
Subject: Dictionary Comprehension
References: <3mbe9usoufc2f5ppjmk7lh6ks71pgb45f9@4ax.com> <u663s674b.fsf@python.net> <7xsn6w9pad.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <a7akno$ch5$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <7xsn6w9pad.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>
>Also, if adding dict comprehensions really require "major hacking in
>the parser, the bytecode compiler, and the virtual machine", then IMO
>a code cleanup is needed that's much larger in scope than adding one
>feature.  Certainly no change to the VM should be needed at all, since
>the dict comprehension is equivalent to a for loop, and the compiler
>can generate the exact same code as the for loop would have.  The
>parser and compiler would need a patch, but I'd hope it wouldn't be
>"major hacking".

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But, in
practice, there is."  --Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

As it happens, though, part of the work planned for 2.3 is to start
doing some cleanup work.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 11:49:31 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:49:31 +0000
Subject: cgi xmlrpc anyone?
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCDFD@intrepid>
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCDFD@intrepid>
Message-ID: <e8YmYKAbM4j8EwQc@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In message <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCDFD at intrepid>, Simon
Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> writes
>> From:        Robin Becker [SMTP:robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk]
>> Has anyone got a cgi version of an xmlrpc server? By that I mean a cgi
>> script which simulates being an xmlrpc server. We are allowed to do cgi
>> by our ISP, but not to run long running processes or to start up our own
>> servers etc.
> 
>Robin,
>The effbot is running one, I think - <http://effbot.org/rpc/index.htm>.
>
....
yes I'm being opaque again. What I really need is a python cgi script
that can process http requests in an xmlrpc fashion. I seem to see lots
of xmlrpc servers including /F 's, but I'm missing a way to translate a
transient request into such a server. I guess in practice the front end
of such a server is replaced by the cgi interface only the back end is
really needed. I guess this is a poor way to do xmlrpc, but the ISP
won't let us run our own servers or have long running processes.
-- 
Robin Becker



From dpeter at designtheory.org  Thu Mar 14 13:39:23 2002
From: dpeter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 18:39:23 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> 
> note that
> 
>    index = 0
>    for item in mylist:
>        <whatever>
>        index += 1
> 
> is faster than
> 
>    for index in range(len(mylist)):
>        item = mylist[index]
>        <whatever>
> 

Here is some timing with variations posted so far.

    i in range(len(ls)):              2.01
    x in ls; i+=1 :                   2.59
    lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x):   3.86
    Iter class:                      10.7

I used python 2.2, and ran each functions 3000 times.
Code is attached.

--------------------------------------------------< code >-------------

import time
import sys

def foo(ls):
    for i in range(len(ls)):
        if ls[i] == '998':
            return i

def bar(ls):
    i = 0
    for x in ls:
        if ls[i] == '998':
            return i
        i += 1

literator = lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x)

def fzip(ls):
    for x,y in literator(ls):
        if y == '998':
            return x

class Iter:
    def __init__(self, list):
        self.list = list
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        return(index, self.list[index])

def iter(ls):
    for x,y in Iter(ls):
        if y == '998':
            return x

def timing(f, x, n):
    a = time.clock()
    for i in range(n):
        f(x)
    b = time.clock()
    print b - a

ls = []
for i in range(1000):
    ls.append(str(i))

n = int(sys.argv[1])

print 'i in range(len(ls)):',
timing(foo, ls, n)

print 'x in ls; i+=1 :',
timing(bar, ls, n)

print'lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x):',
timing(fzip, ls, n)

print 'Iter class:',
timing(iter, ls, n)

--------------------------------------------------< end of code >-------------


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Mar 21 20:13:44 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:13:44 +0100
Subject: FastCGI
References: <a7cdh1$bte$1@minotaurus.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de> <slrna9k792.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A8548.5020404@stroeder.com>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> We haven't had any problems with fcgi.py.  The copy of fcgi.py hiding
> inside Quixote has had a few minor bugfixes and some minor
> optimization (using the struct module for packing and unpacking data,
> for example).

Would you mind providing a separate distribution I can refer to? A simple 
link would be sufficient.

 > mod_fastcgi, on the other hand, seems to be subject to
 > occasional random hangs that occurred once every few weeks.

My SuSE Linux ships with a FastCGI module for Apache made by SAP. Does 
anyone have experience with this?

Ciao, Michael.



From jd764 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  1 17:53:13 2002
From: jd764 at hotmail.com (Jeff)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 14:53:13 -0800
Subject: 16-bit grayscale images
Message-ID: <6c585112.0203011453.2fd2a13f@posting.google.com>

I am working on a medical imaging GUI project and am considering
learning Python/Tkinter.  I am actually trying to migrate from a
high-priced software package designed specifically for medical
imaging.  With Python/Tkinter is there a way to read in, write out,
and display 16 bit grayscale images?  Or am I wasting my time?

Thanks

Jeff


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Sat Mar  9 22:26:33 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 03:26:33 GMT
Subject: Gurus, I wonder if you can take a look at this source code? Win32...
References: <a6drna$57s$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrna8lkjk.7hm.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

G. Willoughby wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Hi,
>     I have started writing a text editor for Win32 platforms

It works fine on Linux simply by not importing win32api. As far as I
can see, you could easily remove all uses of win32api functions. Is it
really needed for tooltips, for example?

> and i wonder if anyone has a few minutes spare just to take a look
> at the source code and give me a little constructive critisism?

I didn't find much to critizize :-)

I've seen this bad practise several times:

try:
    # something
except:
    pass

A better way to do this is to only catch the exceptions that can be
caught there, like IOError or whatever. Catching all exceptions makes
the code difficult to debug and can hide errors for a long time. It's
also a good practise to not only "pass", but log the errors to a
logfile, or simply write the exception to stderr.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Mar  7 14:26:00 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:26:00 -0800
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <XpCh8.848$kg2.73639@news1.east.cox.net>
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net> <mailman.1015473913.28082.python-list@python.org> <XpCh8.848$kg2.73639@news1.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20020307192600.GC29379@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Jeff Hinrichs (jlh at cox.net):
> 
> Would you be interested in pursuing this further?

I think we should. I like the idea of starting with an interaction.
Your observation that interactivity interests new users is dead on; I
can remember being in exactly that same boat.

We might set out from Hello, World with the idea of making Hello,
Name. Develop Echo as a "here's the source, let's talk about it" then
follow it up with "now see if you can make "hello, name" work, based
on the original Hello World. No real new challenges there, but
learning to output a constant string and a variable on the same line
might be interesting for the student, and if they don't get it, tell
them a few ways to solve that problem "on the next page".

Do we want to take them through a few steps on how to pretty up the
output? Probably not, huh?

Then we move to the traditional Number Guess game. Discuss if, suggest
the need for else.

I'm trying to get granular here, trying to build in both the need for
the student to engage and think about the topic at hand while
maintaining interest and a real sense of progress.

When do we start immersing them with "useful examples" they should
try? After we get through if / else?

Am I trying to get too low-level? Do we want to stay above the clouds,
keep this as a heuristic for teaching rather than a specific
curriculum?

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts        <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments 
when he was merely stupid."        --Heinrich Heine



From wayne at mishre.com  Sun Mar  3 23:40:06 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:40:06 -0800
Subject: what I would like to see in python to make a better "glue" language (Newbie)
References: <200203040403.g24436x04613@burswood.off.ekorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FAA6.6080006@mishre.com>

 >> One more idea for Administrators/Glue Implementers; lots of code
 >> examples is key.
 >>
 >
 > Someone needs to write these examples. This is a non trivial amount
 > of work.

First off...no promises. ;)  What would people like to see as code
examples?  Is there a list somewhere of "commonly requested code"?  If 
not I volunteer to start maintaining one...and as time permits writing 
examples for some of them.

Wayne

-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Mon Mar 18 14:54:36 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:54:36 -0500
Subject: 2.1.2 install problems on win2k server
Message-ID: <Eyrl8.581$Mx3.132235@news1.iquest.net>

I uninstalled activepython 212 and installed python 2.1.2 and win32all 145
on Windows 2000 Server.  There are 2 (maybe 3) problems.

1. active server pages won't work, but if i change the source code (even
just adding a space somewhere) then the page will work once.  it won't work
again until i change the source again.

2. Typing python from a command prompt does not start python.  Double
clicking icons works fine, however.

3. Pythonwin loads now, but for a while (until a reboot) gave DDE errors
when it was started.

any ideas?

thanks,

doug




From jcosby at mindspring.com  Fri Mar 29 16:34:29 2002
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Jon Cosby)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:34:29 -0800
Subject: List problem
Message-ID: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Can anyone se why this is coming up empty in the "cols" list? I've tried
something similar in the interpreter, and everything here looks right. For
some reason, it isn't finding any matches here.

########################################################################
# WordSquare
# Build word squares from initial word
#


# Word dictionary
dict = "c:\data\dict.txt"

firstword = input("Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): ")
lword = len(firstword)
words = []
cols = []
rows = []


f = open(dict, "r")
for line in f.readlines():
 if len(line[:-1]) == lword:
  words.append(line[:-1])
f.close()


for i in range(lword):
 cols.append([])
 rows.append([])
rows[0].append(firstword)

# Generate an array of words with matching first letters
for i in range(lword):
 for word in words:
   if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found
   cols[i].append(word)

print len(words)
print cols

######################################################################

C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "hello"
4220
[[], [], [], [], []]

C:\Python21>



Jon Cosby





From Van at Lindbergs.org  Wed Mar  6 00:40:43 2002
From: Van at Lindbergs.org (VanL)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:40:43 -0700
Subject: Threading help?
Message-ID: <3C85ABDB.6090606@Lindbergs.org>

Hello,

This is my first time playing with python threads, and I am a little at 
a loss how to start.  Here is what I need to do:

I need three threads (at least):

1. Every .1 second, retrieves some data via http from an adjacent 
machine on the network.  Easy enough with urllib.
2. Do processing on that data
3. Every .1 second, be ready to spit out the most recent results from 
the processing in response to an http query.  I've got the latest medusa 
distribution, and I was thinking about using that.   It doesn't really 
matter, though.

As you can see, I have two things that have soft real-time deadlines, 
and one thing that I want to do as fast as possible, but doesn't need to 
be real time.  This sounds like a job for threads.

I can do each of the individual parts, but I don't know how to combine 
them all so that each is running in a different thread, so that process 
2 doesn't make the other two lose their timing.

Any help?

Thanks in advance,

Van




From ajeru at vknn.org  Sat Mar  2 21:50:03 2002
From: ajeru at vknn.org (Alexander Jerusalem)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 18:50:03 -0800
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
Message-ID: <24c39b2c.0203021850.7679418c@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm using the mxODBC package to query a database that contains german
umlauts. The result strings conatain hex codes instead of umlauts.
I've played around with encoding and stringformat values but to no
avail. Any hints?

Reagards,
Alexander Jerusalem


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 20:34:15 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 01:34:15 GMT
Subject: Looking for a python shell under linux like PythonWin
References: <a50631f6.0203262102.4bdc160d@posting.google.com> <slrnaa3eru.1cc.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <a7trun$1grh$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <slrnaa3eru.1cc.gerhard at developer2.opus-gmbh.net>, 
	Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?= wrote:
>In article <a50631f6.0203262102.4bdc160d at posting.google.com>,
	newgene wrote:

>> Hi, group,
>>      The only python shell under linux I can find is IDLE, but it is
>> not as good as PythonWin. A important feature "Attribute expansion"(a
>> list of attributes for selection when pressing period after a module
>> name) is not available. Is there a good python shell existing on linux
>> now?

> PyCrust does this (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust):

>    PyCrust is an interactive Python shell written in Python using wxPython.

> Gerhard


	Python on  a terminal (or in an xterm) does do attribute expansion
	(with rlcompleter and the readline modules loaded, of course).




From mxl at fluent.com  Wed Mar 13 14:43:54 2002
From: mxl at fluent.com (Mohammed Lazreg)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:43:54 -0500
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net> <200203131929.g2DJTiq25090@mail.merlinsoftech.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FABFA.8F50D390@fluent.com>

And just to make sure which script python is picking up :

Try this please : python /your/directory/script.py

Andy McKay wrote:

> On March 13, 2002 10:37 am, jrc wrote:
> > 'python script.py'
> >
> > completely fails (syntax error).
>
> Please post your error and script (if its short). If you are getting a syntax
> error, it would seem Pyhon is running and then failing on your script and
> hence generating a syntax error.
>
> Thats not Python's fault.
> --
>   Andy McKay
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Mon Mar 25 07:27:55 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 12:27:55 GMT
Subject: python cgi problem
References: <1573b893.0203250317.693ef1dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9u5iv.18c.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <1573b893.0203250317.693ef1dc at posting.google.com>, etienne wrote:
> hi there !
> 
> I'm programming such a cgi:
> step 1- user submits some data
> step 2- cgi validates data
> step 3- outputs a html file telling the user to wich url point to find
> output
> step 4- do the hard work.
> 
> the reason for step 3 is that step 4 needs to dig in a very large
> database, and may take lot of time
> 
> everything woks fine but output of step3 comes when step 4 is over and
> user needs to wait up to some minutes for his response.
> 
> cgi schema is as follow:
> 
> def main():
>    # 2 
>    params = validate_params()
>    # 3 
>    htm_out  = generate_output()
>    print htm_out
>    # 4
>    os.system(" python my_module.py params &")
> 
> 
> I can see results of   print htm_out when os.system(" python
> my_module.py params &") is over
> 
> can i force htm_out output somehow ???

You want to have unbuffered output? Starting Python with "python -u" probably
is what you want, then:

-u     : unbuffered binary stdout and stderr (also PYTHONUNBUFFERED=x)

Gerhard


From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  8 11:40:19 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:40:19 -0600
Subject: Module Search Path?
In-Reply-To: <3c87e781.62223437@news>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMEPADHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
> I want to store the modules I have written in their own directory.
> When I add it to the search path with sys.path.append the changes are
> made for one session only. How can I make permanent changes to the
> search path? I am using ActivePython 2.1 (PythonWin) in Win98.

Find the directory named (python21)\Lib\site-packages .
Make a new directory in there, and put your modules in it.
Make a file named "mymodules.pth" under site-packages 
that has just one line, the name of the directory you created.

Details:
  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-site.html

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Mar  1 01:51:39 2002
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:51:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: what does this do? (really basic question)
References: <slrna7u3n3.tqi.landshark@burrito.verticaladdiction.net>
Message-ID: <a5n8dr$11bg$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Dave Marotti <landshark at verticaladdiction.net> wrote:
: Hey,

: Hopefully this is a really basic question.  I'm still in the learning phase,
: and came across this in a sample program:

: class Whatever:
:     def __init__(self, user_list, cmd_list, **kw):
:         code....

: What does the **kw mean (specifically, the **) ?


"kw" stands for "keyword", and what's being used is called a "keyword
argument".  Keyword arguments allow us to pass parameters to a
function in a very general way.  In the example above, the keyword
argument becomes a dictionary that captures any keyword variables that
"fall through the cracks" of a function call.

Keyword arguments aren't particular to class methods --- they're a
general concept in function calls.  Here's an example:

###
>>> def test_keywords(var1, var2, **keywords):
...     print 'var1 = ', var1
...     print 'var2 = ', var2
...     print 'keywords = ', keywords
... 
>>> test_keywords(3, 4)
var1 =  3
var2 =  4
keywords =  {}
>>> test_keywords(var2=4, var1=42)
var1 =  42
var2 =  4
keywords =  {}
>>> test_keywords(var2=4, var1=42, var3 =17, var4='planet')
var1 =  42
var2 =  4
keywords =  {'var4': 'planet', 'var3': 17}
>>> 
###

Here, the last call of test_keywords() shows that 'keywords' grabs all
all the variables unaccounted for.


Keyword arguments might seem somewhat Useless at a first glance, but
they are actually quite nice: Peter Norvig uses examples of keyword
arguments in his "Infrequently Asked Questions" page:

    http://norvig.com/python-iaq.html


There's also a little bit of explanation about them in the Python tutorial:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node6.html#SECTION006720000000000000000


Please feel free to ask more questions about them.  Good luck to you!


From h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl  Sat Mar  2 06:46:52 2002
From: h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl (husam)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:46:52 +0100
Subject: a simple 'else' decrease speed by 1000 times.
Message-ID: <3C80BBAC.2060600@student.kun.nl>

Short intro:
One else statement decrease speed by 1000 times. Why is that?

Long intro:

The only thing that this function does is the following:
It takes two dictionaries. The first is a dictionary with 10000 keys. 
The value of each key is a list containing one integer item. The keys of 
the second  dictionary have values that correspond to file names. These 
files must be opened one by one and scaned for the presence of two 
integers, lets call them 'new' and 'previous'. The link between the 
files is that the 'new' integer in file number one represents the 
'previous' integer found in file number two, and so on. If the code 
finds that a 'prv' integer equal to the last item of the list of any 
dict_1[key], that 'prv' ingeger must be appended to the same key.The 
files differ in length. The first one contains 11000 lines, but the 
others has arbitrary length, but they are shorter than the first one in 
general.
The problem is the following: a represantative line from the output of 
this code is like this:

key nr.	key		value
------- 
--- 
	-----
3400 
12.345 
	[45, 90000, 4003, 1203]

the item '1203' is the 'new' ID of '4003', and this is the new ID of 
'90000' and so on. Each of these items are added in one round as a 
result of scanning one file. From the position of the items in the list 
I can tell from which file they were derived.
As you see, the value of a key grows according to the number of files 
processed. But, since the files differ in length, not all the keys will 
grow. The symptom is that when a key value is not modified in the third 
round, simply because there was no match, the new item in the fourth 
round will be added, and therefor the length of the list will be 3 and 
hence I can not tell wether the last item is derived from the fourth 
file or from the third one. For this reason I thought let's add a zero 
to the list when there is no match by using a simple 'else' statement. 
This statement makes the code 1000 times slower. Why is that?

def NewToOld(n,o):

# n = a dictionary with 10000 keys, o = is a dictionary with 3 keys each 
   represents a file name.

      count=1
      files_keys=o.keys()
      files_keys.sort()
      print files_keys
      for key in files_keys:
           print 'Scanning ',o[key],' file....'
           SaveNew = open('rmsd_ranks.pickle','w')

           openfile=open(o[key])
           lines=openfile.readlines()
           openfile.close()
           for i in n.keys():
                for line in lines:
                     words = string.split(line)
                     if len(words) > 2:
                          if words[0]=='G_DATA':
                               prv=int(words[2])
                               new=int(words[1])
                               if prv == n[i][-1]:
                                    n[i].append(new)
                                    print count, '\t', i , '\t',n[i]
                                    count = count +1
                                    break
                               else:
                                    n[i].append(0)

           savednew = cPickle.dump(n, SaveNew)
           SaveNew.close()
      return n



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar  4 23:48:39 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:48:39 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015286839.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C844E27.EEE8D0DE@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> Just keep in mind that indici/indices/indexes-type proposals don't help in
> cases where __len__ is not defined.  Two-dimensional structures, for
> example.

It does if we define an __indices__ protocol to
go with it. First look for __indices__, then fall 
back on __len__.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 14 00:31:22 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 05:31:22 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <mailman.1016070084.23003.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6pcja$9cu$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:40:20 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter (maybe)]
nope, [Adrew Dalke (unless Bengt is mistaken)]
>> If your lists are really long (O(100,000) or more?) then you might find
>> that the append starts taking too long -- append is asymptotically
>> O(n**n) whoa! can that be true?
          ^-need break + original, so we get:
[Bengt Richter]
>whoa! can that be true? I hope not. It is very cheap to tie a singly linked
>list into a circle and point to the last node when pointing to the list as
a whole.
>
[Tim]
>No, theoretical worst case is O(n**2).  (1 + 2 + 3 + ... + n == ?)
>
>[Andrew Dalke]
>> Yes, it's true.
        ^^--O(n**n) or "It is very cheap ..." ? ;-)
>
>Only when the sky is falling too <wink>.
>
And we're slipping cogs in our timing belts ;-)

[Andrew continues]
>> This comes up on the list about once every six months or so.  As I
   ^^^^--referring to my 'it' UIAM ;-)
>> recall, Python's standard lists grow by 10 elements at a time for
>> small lists (less than 500 in length), then 100 at a time for larger
>> lists.
>
[Tim]
>That used to be true, but over-allocation is always proportional to list
>size now.  This had most benefit on assorted Windows flavors (which don't
>act alike in this respect).  It made no difference at all on some assorted
>Unixish systems (append often enough and it may get reassigned to its own
>mmap'ed region; or it may get moved to the sbrk limit so that further
>appends "just" bump the high-water VM mark without physical movement).
>
[AD]
>> ...
>> Insertions and deletions are also linear in the length of the list.
>
[Tim]
>They're linear in the length of the list following the insert/delete
>position.
>
Does that mean the whole tail is rebuilt? Is there any instrumentation
left over that logs access patterns? I wonder what real life uses show.
E.g. if you normalized index and slice references and used them as keys
in a dicionary of counts.

[Andrew continues]
>> Yes, we all know there are better ways to deal with this, for different
>> people's definition of the meaning "better."  It isn't going to change
>> in Python.
>
>Fast constant-time (modulo cache effects) random access is Python's chief
>goal for Python lists.
Do you cache a last-position hint in case of sequential access, or is that
not worth it?
>
[Andrew continues]
>> Best I think would be a standard module of data structures (priority
>> queue, doubly-linked lists, stack, etc.)  But it hasn't bothered
>> me enough to go ahead and do it.
>
>Guido doesn't go for this kind of thing:  the more "advanced" the data
>structure, the more specialized variants it sprouts, and there aren't enough
>volunteers to maintain the ever-bulging code across all the platforms Python
>runs on.
OTOH, the two or three most popular platforms probably have most all those things
in multiplicate (>duplicate ;-) already, so maybe just locating, describing, and
indexing them would work. Maybe we should just think up a <Python-wink> marker
and copyright/trademark it so people could put it in comment headers and google
could do the indexing ;-) If we choose globally unique category keywords and
get people to use them when contributing to this commons, then we could also
narrow searches. ##PSF##module ##PSF##category ##PSF##subcat or ?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 19:53:48 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:53:48 -0500
Subject: Python/Linux
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886hv$st6$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <J4Op8.61588$Q7.48627836@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Aahz,

Heard much about Zope, not much about Don Quixote.  If I go with Zope will I
miss something special as far as Quixote's concerned?  I didn't know Zope
also had a WYSIWIG editor for HTML pages.

Also, do I have to get Python 2.2 to use Zope 2.5?  I'm surprised SUSE's
Yast2 missed that update.

thx


Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:a886hv$st6$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>,
> Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> If you're using Python, go with either Zope or Quixote.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?





From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar  7 12:13:24 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:24 -0500
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
In-Reply-To: <wzvgc8lblj.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEECIOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Piet van Oostrum]
> ...
> In fact python's regular expressions are a little bit stronger than
> the theoretical ones because of the allowed \n constructs, but still
> can't count.

If you're into this kind of thing, doing a google search on

    "regular expression" "NP complete"

turns up several linear-time reductions transforming NP-complete problems
into matching-with-backreferences problems.  IOW, adding backreferences to
theoretical regexps turns the regexp matching problem from polynomial time
into "almost certainly" exponential time.  In that sense, backreferences add
enormous power.  But counting is *really* hard <wink>.




From nbecker at fred.net  Fri Mar  8 13:18:41 2002
From: nbecker at fred.net (N Becker)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 10:18:41 -0800
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1f5252d4.0203081018.6f503b4a@posting.google.com>

nbecker at fred.net (N Becker) wrote in message news:<1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14 at posting.google.com>...
> Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
> a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).
> 
> I wonder if there is anything new.  It looks to me that the 
> best answer is to use lambda.
> 
> example:
> 
> def f():
>   return lambda: os.chmod(""/root/.rhosts", 0644)
> 
> def g():
>   f()

A little background.  I'm writing a script that customizes my Linux
machine installations.  The script has a function that executes
commands.
Each command is a list.  Each element of the list is a string
or a function.
The current setup is, if a command is a string it is sent to
commands.getstatusoutput.  Some commands can be directly executed by
the python
interpreter.  In that case the command is a function and is directly
called.

This is basically the outline of the script:

run a command
def runcommand (cmd):
    print "command: ", cmd
    (status, output) = commands.getstatusoutput (cmd)
#    print "status, output: " , (status, output)
    if (int (status) != 0):
        print "command failed: ", cmd, output
    return int (status)

#run a command and record result
def runandlog (func):
    commandlist = func()
    for command in commandlist:
        if inspect.isfunction (command):
            command()
        else:
            status = runcommand (command)
    return status

def rootaccess():
    return ['some command deleted',
            'another command not shown here', 
            lambda: os.chmod ("/root/.rhosts", 0644)
            ]

dolist = [rootaccess, stuff deleted...]

for thing in dolist:
       status = runandlog (thing)

As you see "dolist" is a list of functions to execute.  Each function
returns a list of commands.  In the case that a command is a function
to be executed by the python interpreter, the function has to be
quoted.
The best Python mechanism I could find is lambda.  Is there a better
way?


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<-*->ud$8Pd89AFd=i$s3zd[S0,szISs=3A[ $3=i,sz|d108F3IFSF,3A[,d6i$s3zd[S0,szIOR?[89iFdA3$S[8 at 08F3IOR?[3,$i$s3zd[S0,szIdNs89dSWiRd$ss0,szIn8[s8H2qfidsS0,szIzsAFdni_A,S0OnSS0_AIOR?ui$s3zd[S0,szIn8[s8HqiFdA3$S[8 at 08F3IOR?zn|u?iA9O=08F3Iud$8di 3F08F3Iud$8di$s3zd[S0,szIud$8dPS[891n[=3iz=80,szIFSF,3A[,dfiRd$ss0,szI|R3$s8Zd9Ns,d,RZs?8FAizd at FS[=30,szIn8[s8id8 FS_[AF0,szI|R3$s8Zd9Ns,d,RiF Asn|=0,szI|R3$s8Zd88sn8,FZS[=3i,?[08SISs=3A[ $3=i[8uFA=FR0,szI|R3$s8Z,FZs?8FAiF Asn|=0,szI|R3$s8Z,FiF Asn|=0,szISs=3A[ $3=i@[$08F3IFSF,3A[,did|s Fs8S[8F0,szI|R3$s8Z,Sd==F=Zs?8FAiF Asn|=0,szI|R3$s8Z,Sd==F=iF Asn|=0,szIn8[s8iOnR=FSSAd9[s0,szI|R3$s8ZS[=3i,?[08SIdSn_SF*iF*|sA308SI|R3$s80[3i3[=,dS[8F30[3ISs=3A[ $3=inS3[zd8F30,szIn8[s8i_S08F30dnI|R3$s8QHidsS0,szIzsAFdni_?[0,szIdNs89dSF%idsS0,szIn8[s8i$@n*d0$@n0$@ISs=3A[ $3=in=[83FA8F30,szIOR?8i$s3zd[S0,szIdNs89dSF%iF*,[3F0,szIud$8d$i$s3zd[S0,szIzsAFdni FSd,0zdA0Sz,s0,szIud$8d=i$s3zd[S0,szI at dS[zd3di_AFFn at 0,szIdNs89dSF%iRd$ss0,szIn8[s8i$s=3N[SSF0,szIzsAFdni z|N30,szIdSn_SsiAF3Fzd[S0F=I|R3$s866fidsS0,szIud$8OSd-Fi$s3zd[S0,szIdSn_SRi[d_A[,d0,szI at dS[zd3di$s3zd[S0,szIFSF,3A[,diO[ _ss30,szIzsAFdni$sn=3s8|AF==0,szIud$8, at Fi$s3zd[S0,szIdSn_zSi_8zd0,szIud$89id3308F3In8[s8i$nzOFA0d,0n at I|R3$s86Wi$s3zd[S0,szIud$89i$s3zd[S0,szIdSn_s at i$s3zd[S0,szIud$89SFRi|Sn 8|SdR0,szISs=3A[ $3=iNFA[s0,szIOR?89di$s3zd[S0,szIdSn_sAzi8F3d=[d08F3IzsAFdni[9d08F3IdNs89dSFW=idsS0,szIud$8FFOi$s3zd[S0,szIn8[s8i|F[0=Rz|d3[,s0,dIFSF,3A[,di,F8dz0z*<-*->



From wurmy at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 20:37:57 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:37:57 GMT
Subject: How do you protect the source code of python applications?
References: <3C8C6EC5.8080308@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <3C8FFF62.4F76BBA2@earthlink.net>

husam wrote:
> 
> hi,
> Is there a way to protect the source code of applications written with
> python?

Do you mean, protect legally, or protect from peeking eyes? :-)

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Wed Mar 20 13:20:14 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:14 -0500
Subject: Python2.2 Installation
References: <jjb5-244142.12302820032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> <a7ahgn$pjn$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>
Message-ID: <jjb5-179D8E.13201420032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

Adam wrote:

>	try:
> /path/to/your/new/python2 setup.py build
> /path/to/your/new/python2 setup.py install

After allowing myself write access, that seems to work.  Now I have 
python2 available.  But the pyserial installation still fails with the 
same error.  There is no 'config' directory in '/usr/lib/python2.2'.

Thanks for your help.


Joel


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Mar 20 14:04:17 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:04:17 +0100
Subject: Process to process synchronization (unix)
References: <a6tn83$nh6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <83pu20ieob.fsf@panacea.canonical.org> <a7a61c$27ra$1@norfair.nerim.net> <a7a7vl$29up$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <a7am16$2q07$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Eric,

Limpide !
Many thanks for the enlightenment.
Exactly what I needed !

--Gilles

"Eric Brunel" <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
a7a7vl$29up$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> Gillou wrote:
> > I need to learn those named pipes.
> > Are there pythonic examples somewhere ?
>
> Here are an awfully simple example of two scripts speaking to each other.
> The principle is that the first run creates the named pipe if it doesn't
> already exist, then opens it and tries either to write something to it, or
> to read something from it. Here are the two scripts:

...

> HTH. Good luck!
>  - eric -
>




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar  8 01:42:01 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 22:42:01 -0800
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xhenrh87a.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Comment on PEP 273: this should be able to use JAR files as well as
ZIP files.  A JAR file is basically ZIP file with digital signatures
for the files inside the ZIP.

Is there a method for adding comments to PEP's?


From ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu  Wed Mar 13 16:47:00 2002
From: ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu (Omri Schwarz)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:47:00 -0500
Subject: Newbie regex question.
References: <mailman.1016049743.28518.python-list@python.org> <octy9gw87lj.fsf@nerd-xing.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <octu1rk87jf.fsf@nerd-xing.mit.edu>

Omri Schwarz <ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu> writes:

> "Sean 'Shaleh' Perry" <shalehperry at attbi.com> writes:
> 
> > On 13-Mar-2002 Omri Schwarz wrote:
> > > 
> > > I have a regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
> > > and want to search a string I know to have multiple 
> > > instances of this regex. I'm a tad confused by
> > > the RE Howto, so I'd like to ask, how do I properly 
> > > get a for loop to access the widget1 and widget2 
> > > strings of each instance?
> > > 
> > > for instance in regex.search(string).groups() 
> > > seems to be the right thing, but isn't working.
> > > 
> > 
> > >>> import re
> > >>> s= 'yadda widget1 widget2 yadda'
> > >>> regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
> > >>> for match in regex.search(s).groups(): print match
> > ... 
> > widget1
> > widget2
> > 
> > This works here.  Although I would strongly caution you to do:
> > 
> > re_match = regex.search(s)
> > if re_match != None ......
> > 
> > just in case the regex fails.
> 
> What I was trying to get was 
> widget1 of instance 1
> widget2 of instance 1
> widget1 of instance 2
> widget2 of instance 2

And a web search shows I should have gone for
findall().

Pardon me while I put on a paper bag.

-- 
Omri Schwarz --- ocscwar at mit.edu ('h' before war) 
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr


From newgene at bigfoot.com  Fri Mar 22 11:10:36 2002
From: newgene at bigfoot.com (newgene)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 08:10:36 -0800
Subject: Using code to add my database as a source of ODBC automatically?
Message-ID: <a50631f6.0203220810.5c783396@posting.google.com>

Hi, group,
    I am wondering if possible to write a code to add my database
file(like access file) as a source of ODBC and then delete it later
automatically? In some case, I want to manipulate a database file
temperarily. Usually, I need add this file into ODBC from "Control
Panel" manually. Is there a python code doing this automatically?


Thanks


Newgene


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Thu Mar  7 19:42:49 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:42:49 +0900
Subject: fork and thread and signal... oooooops
References: <87550ef1.0203050846.2166835e@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015444393.19258.python-list@python.org> <MeIh8.104$_Z4.397@news.hananet.net> <B8AD0E17.5FBD%jonathan@onegoodidea.com>
Message-ID: <JCTh8.113$_Z4.994@news.hananet.net>

Jonathan Hogg scribbled with his keyboard:

> On 7/3/2002 11:46, in article MeIh8.104$_Z4.397 at news.hananet.net,
> "Jonathan Gardner" <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> wrote:
[snip]
> 
> The main reason why one wouldn't want to write an init script in Python is
> that you might not have Python available when you need it most. A
> statically linked 'sh' (and the useful subtools) residing on the boot
> volume is a standard feature of any UNIX (or should be).
>
> If pretty much everything else fails, you generally know that you can get
> to a single user prompt and run shell scripts. If you've severely mangled
> some library installations your Python may very well be toast - or it may
> be on a file system that just got hosed.
>

It takes a good sysadmin to give us all a reality check every once in a 
while. I remember at my job how they would state the plain obvious - "What 
if that machine crashes? What then?" Stuff that no one would even dream of, 
but was perfectly possible and actually happened. 

> Of course this is old-skool sysadmin. These days I guess you just boot
> from the emergency CD and press the repair button or something ;-)
> 

If only that were true... =)

Jonathan



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 13:56:40 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:56:40 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-145FF7.08215401032002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C82BABF.B632A4FB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3C83C368.3B98FEC8@ccvcorp.com>


Greg Ewing wrote:

> David Eppstein wrote:
> >
> > I was starting to think it might be time to write a PEP,
> > but then Tim's comment about how he dislikes iterating over 3
> > discouraged me.
>
> Bjorn is talking about "for x < i < y", though, which
> is a different proposal from the one about iterating
> over 3. I think they deserve to be judged separately.

I believe that Tim's comment was regarding how "for 3 < i < 10" would be
parsed.  I vaguely recall a discussion, from the first time around, that the
parser will grab "for 3" and then choke on the rest.  It would require
significant modifications to the parser to have it read the entire line and
then analyze it.  This amount of work has been deemed not justifiable for the
(questionable) benefits of having this construct.

Of course, this is my vague memories, and could be totally wrong.  Having a
PEP to archive things like this would be nice (even though I'd be hoping that
it gets rejected).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From nbecker at fred.net  Sat Mar  9 21:06:21 2002
From: nbecker at fred.net (nbecker at fred.net)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 21:06:21 -0500
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <mailman.1015613065.11580.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3y9h141nm.fsf@nbecker.fred.net>

Thanks.  Yes, just running the commands directly is a lot simpler in
my example.  I just was in the wrong frame of mind.

Still, it seems odd to me that a language that otherwise has the
ability to treat it's own code as data lacks quote.


From jason at jorendorff.com  Thu Mar  7 21:52:04 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:52:04 -0600
Subject: List of Dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLAEMNDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Lenny Self wrote:
> When I add the first dictionary element to the list all is well.  When
> I add the second element to the list both the first and second element
> reference the second dictionary that was added.

Probably you are doing something like this:

  mylist = []
  d = {}

  d['name'] = 'Jason'
  d['address'] = '123 Test Drive'
  mylist.append(d)

  d['name'] = 'Yakko'
  d['address'] = None
  mylist.append(d)

Here I'm adding the same dictionary to the list twice,
so the list contains two references to the same dictionary.
You can use the id() function to tell if two dictionaries
are exactly identical.

  >>> print mylist
  [{'name': 'Yakko', 'address': None}, {'name': 'Yakko', 'address': None}]
  >>> print d
  {'name': 'Yakko', 'address': None}
  >>> print id(mylist[0])
  8302792
  >>> print id(mylist[1])
  8302792
  >>> print id(d)
  8302792

As you can see, mylist[0], mylist[1], and d are all actually the
same dictionary.  They don't just have the same values; they're
really the same object.  One dictionary data structure exists
in memory, shared by all three references.

This is called "aliasing".  It means you have to create a new dictionary
every time you want... er... a new dictionary.  :)  Thus:

  d0 = {'name': 'Jason', 'address': '123 Test Drive'}  # create new dict
  mylist.append(d0)

  d1 = {'name': 'Yakko', 'address': None}  # create another new dict
  mylist.append(d1)

Every time you write {}, a new dictionary is created.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 16 01:26:24 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:26:24 -0500
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com> <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <OqBk8.300$ID.1955@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <3C92E590.749C1557@engcorp.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> I run a free software project that is trying to keep things compatible with
> Windows and Linux. So that means I am in *deep trouble* because I can't
> test windows directly. BUT! I do have a few guys who run windows and do try
> stuff out very actively. Unfortunately, they can't code well enough to do
> this themselves.

I guess this means they aren't techie enough to run one of the
installers for you to package up your Windows distribution?
That's a bummer. :(  Maybe you can find a volunteer to help
you, who can do just packaging and not have to do any testing?

> >> For example, try looking at google with "free windows installers" and
> >> follow the first link you find.
> 
> To... http://www.wxwindows.org/technote/install.htm ? =)

Yes.

> I did try looking on google, and it looks like I have a choice between:
> 
> a) Windows Installer
> b) WISE
> 
> None of which seem to be free. I remember a long time ago that there was a
> popular installer offering a free version for free software. Was I just
> seeing things or was that so?

Why is that the only choice?  On that page it says those are commercial,
then lists five _free_ ones (not sure about GPL status).  Are none of those
listed appropriate?  (Why?)

-Peter


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Mar  1 12:02:48 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:02:48 +0300
Subject: Does python have a  function  like similar_text  in PHP
In-Reply-To: <61ff32e3.0203010850.3aedc22f@posting.google.com>; from ron@ire.org on Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:50:42AM -0800
References: <61ff32e3.0203010850.3aedc22f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020301200248.I25553@phd.pp.ru>

On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:50:42AM -0800, ron nixon wrote:
> Does anyone know if Python has a function like similar_text in PHP. It
> compares two strings and returns a percentage for the match. Anyone
> know of anything like this in Python and would be willing to send
> along an example?

---
>From mlh at idt.ntnu.no Fri Aug 27 18:06:22 1999
Date: 27 Aug 1999 15:51:03 +0200
From: Magnus L. Hetland <mlh at idt.ntnu.no>
To: python-list at python.org
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: Fuzzy string matching
Status: RO
X-Status: 
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1


Explanation of the distance algorithm...

(Got a request for this, and thought I might as well post it...)

The algorithm:

def distance(a,b):
    c = {}
    n = len(a); m = len(b)

    for i in range(0,n+1):
        c[i,0] = i
    for j in range(0,m+1):
        c[0,j] = j
        
    for i in range(1,n+1):
        for j in range(1,m+1):
            x = c[i-1,j]+1
            y = c[i,j-1]+1
            if a[i-1] == b[j-1]:
                z = c[i-1,j-1]
            else:
                z = c[i-1,j-1]+1
            c[i,j] = min(x,y,z)
    return c[n,m]

It calculates the following: Given two strings, a and b, and three
operations, adding, subtracting and exchanging single characters, what
is the minimal number of steps needed to translate a into b?

The method is based on the following idea:

  We want to find the distance between a[:x] and b[:y]. To do this, we
  first calculate

  1) the distance between a[:x-1] and b[:y], adding the cost of a
     subtract-operation, used to get from a[:x] to a[:z-1];

  2) the distance between a[:x] and b[:y-1], adding the cost of an
     addition-operation, used to get from b[:y-1] to b[:y];

  3) the distance between a[:x-1] and b[:y-1], adding the cost of a
     *possible* exchange of the letter b[y] (with a[x]).

The cost of the subtraction and addition operations are 1, while the
exchange operation has a cost of 1 if a[x] and b[y] are different, and
0 otherwise.

After calculating these costs, we choose the least one of them (since
we want to use the best solution.)

Instead of doing this recursively (i.e. calculating ourselves "back"
from the final value), we build a cost-matrix c containing the optimal
costs, so we can reuse them when calculating the later values. The
costs c[i,0] (from string of length n to empty string) are all i, and
correspondingly all c[0,j] (from empty string to string of length j)
are j.

Finally, the cost of translating between the full strings a and b
(c[n,m]) is returned.

I guess that ought to cover it...

--

  Magnus              Making no sound / Yet smouldering with passion
  Lie          The firefly is still sadder / Than the moaning insect
  Hetland                                       : Minamoto Shigeyuki

-- 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

>From mlh at idt.ntnu.no Sun Aug 29 13:39:11 1999
Date: 28 Aug 1999 19:50:04 +0200
From: Magnus L. Hetland <mlh at idt.ntnu.no>
To: python-list at python.org
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: Fuzzy string matching?
Status: RO
X-Status: 
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2


Yet another version, without the append...

def distance(a,b):
    "Calculates the Levenshtein distance between a and b."
    n, m = len(a), len(b)
    if n > m:
        # Make sure n <= m, to use O(min(n,m)) space
        a,b = b,a
        n,m = m,n
        
    current = range(n+1)
    for i in range(1,m+1):
        previous, current = current, [i]+[0]*m
        for j in range(1,n+1):
            add, delete = previous[j]+1, current[j-1]+1
            change = previous[j-1]
            if a[j-1] != b[i-1]:
                change = change + 1
            current[j] = min(add, delete, change)
            
    return current[n]


I *could* have written [i]*(m+1) - but I thought this was clearer... :)

--

  Magnus              Making no sound / Yet smouldering with passion
  Lie          The firefly is still sadder / Than the moaning insect
  Hetland                                       : Minamoto Shigeyuki

-- 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
---

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Fri Mar  8 13:07:20 2002
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 10:07:20 -0800
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0203071057.57204175@posting.google.com> <uofhz8ijm.fsf@python.net> <23891c90.0203080727.30419fd8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0203081007.5e08cd1a@posting.google.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in message news:<23891c90.0203080727.30419fd8 at posting.google.com>...
> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<uofhz8ijm.fsf at python.net>...
> > 
> > This isn't true.  You need to know how to use "cvs" and "diff", and
> > *some* bugs require a "Python internals skill level" of at least 11
> > out of 10, but most don't and many probably don't require more that 3
> > or 4 out of ten.  Besides, what better way of acquiring the skill to
> > fix deep bugs than to practice fixing shallow ones?
> 
> My point exactly. I increased my "skill level" by 1 point (alright,
> 0.5 points, then) when I went looking inside the import mechanism,
> although I then took the easy way out and passed the problem over to
> some willing Python gurus instead of fixing it myself. (Actually, I
> couldn't have fixed it definitively myself - there was a "policy"
> thing that needed addressing.)
> 
> Paul

This skill level point system sounds like it could be the basis of a
Python Role-Playing Game.  "My Python Wizard character just gained a
level.  Now  which statistic should I increase: Python Internals,
ZOPE, Generators, or PEPs?  ZOPE would help me in combat against
web-based monsters, but I'll recover hit points more quickly with
Generators . . ."


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar  7 20:12:54 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:12:54 +1300
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8df64.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <3C86D7CA.F53189AE@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <eppstein-51DA81.19203606032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3C881016.FE73EDCA@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> > > for x in range(n-1,-1,-2):
> >
> > for 0 <= i < n/2:
> >   x = 2*i + 1
> >   ...
> 
> Not quite the same, if n is odd.

You're right. (Actually, it steps the wrong way too!)

There are various ways of fixing it, but I'm not
going to bother presenting one. In real life, I would
take a step back and look at the problem being solved,
in order to find the clearest way of expressing it.
That's impossible in this case, since it's a
contrived example.

If someone can present a realistic problem requiring
a loop of that sort, I may be able to suggest something.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Mon Mar 18 13:49:12 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:49:12 -0800
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org> <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a74gn8.3vsf1v9.1@kserver.org>

On 18 Mar 2002 08:37:06 -0800, woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542 at posting.google.com>:

> Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote
> > OK, I got the latest email module from the CVS. I installed it. I ran the
> > tests for the module. Everything tested out fine.
> > > I now eagerly get out my code from last night, that was causing the 
> > 'int' has no attribute .lower
> > error, and run it, hoping for different results.
> > > No good. Same results. :(
> > > File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Message.py", line 285,
> > in get
> > name = name.lower()
> > AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'
> 
> Here's the solution:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-March/090448.html
> 
> And here's SourceForge bug #491612 (closed now), which was filed to
> report this very bug:
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=491612&group_id=25568&atid=384678
> 
> Unfortunately, contrary to Oleg's assertion in c.l.py and Barry's in
> his message added to the SF bug report, the CVS version of has *not*
> been fixed.  It appears to me that this is a mere administrative
> glitch.
> 
> The bug is a showstopper for the email package (it stopped my show, at
> least), but the fix is quite simple.  Could we get it fixed before the
> final release of Python 2.2.1?

I think, that in my own case, it was my own code that I posted yesterday
that had bugs. I've still been working on this last night, and have almost
completely solved my problem (so far as I can tell). I'm having one small
difficulty, where when writing the message out as a string, the first
Received line adds itself in again as one of the continuation lines for
that field. I haven't yet had a chance to look at why it is doing this.
Other than that, it appears to be working fine. (I've changed my code
substantially from what I posted here yesterday.)

I'm running the email module 1.0 in production code that is scanning
incoming email on a server running Qmail, searching for a variety of
characteristics in the email (not just a spam filter...before someone tells
me, yet again, to go out and install spamassasin). In actual use, where I
am scanning both my inbound email accounts and my children's, and get on
the order of 80-100 emails per day, the email module rarely encounters
something that it cannot handle. When it does throw an exception, because
it cannot parse an incoming email, I have it send me an error notice via
email. In a week, I get maybe as many as 3-5 of these error notifications.
All of these messages that cause the errors are improperly formed,
multi-part messages, and usually (although not always) spam. (My filter
couldn't parse a submission that was sent out to the Vipul's Razor mailing
list. That surprised me to no end.)

I haven't worked with email 1.2 much. (A little bit in testing yesterday.)
So I can't comment on how it performs, although one would hope at least as
well as version 1.0.

The code I posted yesterday is something I'm working on, to write another
Parser for the email module, that can handle malformed multipart messages.
I'm having a fair amount of success with it.

To David Rushby: 
I wonder, that the problems you are having with the email module right now,
might not be due to trying to parse malformed messages. The module as it
stands right now, does not make handling non-RFC compliant data very easy.
Any time I work with RFC-compliant data, I have no problems.

To work with non-RFC compliant data, one needs a different Parser than is
currently included in the email module. Thus, the reason I'm working on
writing such a thing.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Mar 14 03:01:06 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:01:06 +0100
Subject: python and analyze image format?
References: <87henkickf.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu> <a6o40j$5t7$1@rex.ip-plus.net> <87adtciavh.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>
Message-ID: <a6plbk$e3b$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

No, sorry.

"Michael A. Miller" <mmiller3 at iupui.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:87adtciavh.fsf at lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu...
> >>>>> "F" == F GEIGER <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:
>
>     > Could PIL be what you are after? See www.pythonware.com
>
> The version that I'm familiar with (1.1.2) does not support
> analyze format.  Do you know if the commercial version does?
>
> Mike




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 12 04:27:11 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:27:11 GMT
Subject: Ho to use a regular expression group reference as hash key
References: <mailman.1015923332.2812.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PRjj8.24501$n4.4793562@newsc.telia.net>

Jason Orendorff wrote:

> > >>> re.sub( r'b\w+\b', lambda word: person.get(word,word), target )
> > 'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'
>
> The fourth line isn't exactly right.  Should be:
>
> >>> re.sub(r'\b\w+\b', lambda word: person.get(word, word.group(0)), target)
> 'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'

or perhaps even:

> >>> re.sub(r'\b\w+\b', lambda m: person.get(m.group(0), m.group(0)), target)
> 'A sample sentence with value1 and value2'

('m' is a match object)

but at this point, it's probably better to replace that
lambda with a named function.

</F>




From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 23:32:17 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 20:32:17 -0800
Subject: Python on W2K server and dos batch files?
References: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net>
Message-ID: <899f842.0203062032.75b219a7@posting.google.com>

"Mark Kingston" <mkingston at -at-shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<3c866f0c$1_2 at axion.net>...
> Hello Experts,
> 
> I've been looking into the possibility of using Python as a scripting
> language for use on our Windows 2000 Server with Terminal Services and
> Citrix Metaframe XPa.  The reason I'm looking into a scripting language
> instead of a compiled program is that I need to add new functionality to the
> programs often.  The scripting program will also serve as a "launch pad" for
> other DOS batch files and compiled console applications.

Works fine - I wrote some scripts to monitoring some servers at a
Canadian Bank.I recommend the ActiveState distro as you will be using
windows, I found it includes more 'extras'... Also checkout their
website for some sample scripts.

 
> 1. Create a GUI (wxPython?) which will be used for server administration
> purposes such as automatically displaying a list of NT users on a form and
> allowing the user to select which user to enable or disable.
TK may be better for a quick gui. You can access the NT directory via
COM or do   LDAP lookups.

> 2. Create a GUI which will allow a user to launch other scripts such as DOS
> batch files, Windows programs and console programs.

No problem... But you may end up wanting to rewrite the batch files in
python as it is more flexible. I can send you some example scripts if
need be. Use windows 'Pipes'.


> 3. The GUI should also be able to capture the output of console programs and
> display it on it's own text box or panel.
fine

> 4. Perform advanced text file manipulation.
Excellent


From newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de  Sun Mar 10 17:53:04 2002
From: newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:53:04 +0100
Subject: Solved: popen3 on win32 python:2.1.2
References: <mailman.1015521073.14733.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8BE3D0.3010601@thomas-guettler.de>

> Hi!
> 
> popen3() hangs on W2K:
> 
> (stdin, stdout, stderr)=popen3('wvWare -x wvware.xml foo.doc')
> text=stdout.read()
> 


If there is a lot of output on e.g. stderr and you start reading
from stdin you have a deadlock

Example:

The subprocess writes a lot of data to stderr and blocks.
In your application you use:

(stdin, stdout, stderr)=popen3("command_with_a_lot_of_output")
stout.read()

--> Deadlock

Explanation:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-September/009460.html

thomas



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 29 17:27:43 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 23:27:43 +0100
Subject: IOError on file close
References: <ua9n9hhmdicned@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m3lmcbui00.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Michael S. Fischer" <michael+usenet at dynamine.net> writes:

> Can anyone tell me why this is happening?

No, but I can tell you how to find out. Write these commands into a
script, then run the script under strace(1). Find the system call that
returns error 38 (ENOSYS). Once you found it, you will know what
system call is not supported by that part of the proc file system.

If you then want to understand it even deeper, you must locate the
relevant part of the Linux source code, and check why it returns
-ENOSYS. Most likely, it has a NULL function pointer in it somewhere,
and the syscall layer return ENOSYS.

It may be that close(2) would return ENOSYS, but this is unlikely.

Regards,
Martin



From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 13 18:01:32 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:01:32 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <gTQj8.3707$Zh1.3582@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>

>
> There's more than one way to heal a wart.
>
> Daniel
>

# my fav

literator = lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x)

for x,y in literator(['a','b','c','d']):
    print x,y





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 24 14:05:05 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:05:05 -0800
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9E2361.CEA21699@alcyone.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> So open is now a file? That seems a bit odd to me.

Yes, this first step in type unification is the main feature of 2.2. 
Check the documentation for more information.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Mar  6 12:45:46 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:45:46 -0500
Subject: distutils question
Message-ID: <3C8655CA.7080008@wi.mit.edu>

I'm trying to bundle some example files using distutils and have been 
running into some problems.

setup(name="frowns",
      version="0.2",
      package_dir = {'':".."},

       ...
       data_files=[('examples', ['examples/example1.py',
                                 'docs/frowns.html']
       ...




What I was expecting was that a directory examples will be created in 
the frowns destination directory.  However it is being placed (under 
windows) in the python install directory.

The .py files are also being compiled to pyo and pyc.  This isn't so bad 
but I'm thinking they probably shouldn't be for documentation examples.

I was thinking about making the destination file "doc/frowns" which 
would probably work under windows installs since there is already a doc 
directory.  Would this work under Linux/Unix?

So the real question is, how do people distribute documentation and 
example code?  I've regressed and decided to put the documentation 
inside a zip file or a tarball and distribute them seperately which is 
not to terribly satisfying.

Also, if any body can tell me how to generate module level docstrings in 
a boost.python enabled package, I would appreciate the tip.

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sat Mar  2 21:09:50 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:09:50 +0000
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-E81CC6.17470002032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <2e138uoj0kivrqbju7c1oimt6fpv03bpgr@4ax.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:47:00 -0800, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>Here's another way of looking at the same question.
>An iterable object has a next() function, that's what it means to be 
>iterable.  If numbers are iterable, we can call number.next(), right?
>So what should 5.next() be?  Surely anyone familiar with the Peano axioms 
>would say 6, not 0!

Let me add the following example on my post:

>>> class Bogus:
... 	def __init__(self, n):
... 		self.n = n
... 	def __iter__(self):
... 		return range(n)
... 	
>>> a = Bogus(10)
>>> a.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: Bogus instance has no attribute 'next'
>>> 


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 14:47:41 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:47:41 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
		<3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>
		<a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA0D05D.B42BF0E1@ccvcorp.com>


Cliff Wells wrote:

> Also, I notice that your calls to gridSizer.Add are incorrect.  The second
> argument is supposed to be a boolean flag indicating whether the widget
> should be expanded in the sizer's primary direction (in the case of a
> wxFlexGridSizer, I'm not sure what that means, but you still need the
> argument, at least as a placeholder).  The wxALL and wxALIGN_* flags should
> be the third argument.

Oooh, I missed that, the first time through.  Actually, though, the second
argument isn't a boolean, though, it's an integer, which represents the
weighting given to that item when expanded.  (If you add item 1 with weight 2,
item 2 with weight 0, and item 3 with weight 1, then any expanded space will be
split up, with 2/3 of it going to item 1 and 1/3 going to item 3...)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From miracle at paradise.net.nz  Wed Mar 27 16:40:55 2002
From: miracle at paradise.net.nz (Matthew Sherborne)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:40:55 +1200
Subject: [Python-Help] Re: How to get a key from  dictionary?
References: <20020326204100.576.qmail@web9302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c1d5d8$13b86b70$08020196@Jonah>

Yes. Good response. Your code is best :)

GBU
Matthew Sherborne




From spacedweller at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 10 21:22:58 2002
From: spacedweller at hotmail.com (j45729)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:22:58 -0000
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <a6h4e2+v977@eGroups.com>

Hi i'd like to introduce myself.  My name is Jon.  I think Python is 
one of the coolest scripting languages!  I'm a new student and i'm 
enjoying learning Python.  I hope to use Python in many applications 
for the web and for problem solving and anything else.  I think it 
will be fun!  I'm so glad i have all of you here for my support!  
what a great plus in learning this language is having so many who are 
interested in the same language.  

-Jon




From Ken.Peek at Engineer.com  Sat Mar 30 14:07:37 2002
From: Ken.Peek at Engineer.com (Ken Peek)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 11:07:37 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <mailman.1017449771.10283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cfcf4b0d.0203301107.4373e9ea@posting.google.com>

Steven Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017449771.10283.python-list at python.org>...
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> 
> > > From: Steve Lamb [mailto:grey at despair.dmiyu.org]
> > >
> > > its_called_a_directory_pointing_to_functions = {'case':closed}
> > >
> > >     I do not believe that any language which can have a hash
> > > of function pointers has any business with a case statement.
> >
> > But that only works when all the functions in all the branches take the
> > same number and types of arguments -- hardly the general case.
> >
> 
> table = {}
> 
> table[key] = func, (args,...)
> ...
> 
> def doit( k ):
> 	return table[k][0]( *table[k][1] )
> 
> 
> You could also use entries that are lists of (func,args) pairs,
> and there are ways of constructing nested tables.
> 
> 
> -- Steve Majewski


You could also write some nice (very readable!) assembly language
code, and add some wrappers to Python!  This would be a GREAT
alternative to adding standard constructs to Python!

sarcastically yours,
Ken Peek


From sarnold at arnolds.dhs.org  Mon Mar  4 22:50:18 2002
From: sarnold at arnolds.dhs.org (Steve Arnold)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 19:50:18 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
In-Reply-To: <7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org>
	<a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu> 
	<7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1015300226.1855.4.camel@rama>

On Mon, 2002-03-04 at 19:33, Paul Rubin wrote:

> David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> writes:
> > While we're picking minor nits, I would consider the natural numbers to 
> > include zero.
> 
> Usually the term "natural numbers" don't include zero.
> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NaturalNumber.html

Yay, somebody found mathworld (or a text book).  Natural numbers are the
counting numbers (positive integers).  Zero is not in the set of Natural
numbers (it is only used as a place holder).  Now if you said Whole
numbers, or non-negative integers, that would have been entirely
different.  Isn't it nice to have children spread out from 3rd grade to
7th grade?  I love helping with math homework...

Steve





From toorop at cyborgnation.org  Mon Mar 25 12:10:58 2002
From: toorop at cyborgnation.org (Toorop)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:10:58 +0100
Subject: What is the problem ???
Message-ID: <137278443120.20020325181058@cyborgnation.org>

Bonjour ,

I'm trying to install a python script for smtp server qmail.
The script : qmfilt by Dru Nelson (http://sourceforge.net/projects/qmfilt/)
environement : RH 7.2, python 2.2, qmail 1.03 +patch qmail-queue

When i run it manually in test mode(no complete processus), it's ok, but
When i run it with Qmail, my smtp log say :
 @400000003c9f1d13372a65fc /usr/bin/python2: error while loading shared libraries: libc.so.6: failed to map segment from shared
object: Cannot allocate memory

Is anyone heve a idea ??


--
Toorop

Working a year in IA make you believe in God





From jhg at galdon.com  Thu Mar 14 04:18:37 2002
From: jhg at galdon.com (Juan Huertas)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:18:37 +0100
Subject: About deletion of variables in version 2.1
References: <mailman.1015879323.25989.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6ppqq$2k7$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>

Sorry, i'm trouble, the problem is not in the deletion of variables.

The problem takes into zlib (decompress method).

I'ts not work fine.

Thank You for your interest.


"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> escribi? en el mensaje
news:mailman.1015879323.25989.python-list at python.org...
> Juan Huertas wrote:
> > Reading a large file and loading to a list:
> >
> > f=open('c:/xx','rb')
> > ls=[]
> > while not eof:
> >     ln=f.readline()
> >     ls.append(ln)
> >
> > This takes 5 seconds (reasonable)
>
> This code is a little nonsensical.  Could you post real code
> that can be tested?
>
> ## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/
>
>




From emile at fenx.com  Wed Mar 27 09:18:37 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:18:37 -0800
Subject: seek in a file
References: <mailman.1017185572.18490.python-list@python.org> <a7s4q4$no0i9$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a7skmf$n7c72$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Andreas Penzel" <mail at andreas-penzel.de> wrote in message
news:a7s4q4$no0i9$1 at ID-69142.news.dfncis.de...
> "Steven Majewski" wrote:
>
> > Are the files too big to fit in memory ?
>
> the file is about 1 MB, i have to test out working
>
> > What do you want to do with the lines ?
> > ( I hope you weren't planning on trying to modify a line in a file:
> >   because of the variable length on lines, if you don't write
> >   exactly the same number of chars back, you will either overwite
> >   the next line, or leave an extra partial line after your edited
> >   line. Most text editors read the whole file into memory and then
> >   write out a new file after it's modified in memory. )
>
> In the file are barcodes of products, one per line.
> The program has to look if the scanned code from the barcode-scanner
is
> identically with one in the file included. This is important because
the
> barcode-scanner sometimes works not correct. All i need is an
search-routine
> that compares the scanned code with the codes in the file. If there is
an
> code, the programs waits for the next code.
>

Then you probably want to read the whole file in and restructure for
optimal access.  The duplicate values for multiple keys is no longer an
issue.  Build a look up dictionary and use it:

#--untested--
productlist = open('\path\and\filename').readlines()
upcdict = {}
for rec in productlist:
    product, upccode = rec.split(delimiter)
    upcdict[upccode] = product  # or None if you're just validating

try: upcdict[scannedcode]
except: invalid code handling


HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 23 11:19:43 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:19:43 -0500
Subject: The IDE is important too [was Develop-test-debug cycle]
References: <crnn9u4gf5ferfvhrp4o5ddjcob2ila7s6@4ax.com> <pan.2002.03.22.21.15.28.962107.56216@snet.net> <uuqo9us079r79d5mpnm407i0vmvbf2ebbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CAB1F.316E24BB@engcorp.com>

Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> 
> Paul Magwene <p.magwene at snet.net> wrote:
> >Since it's open source why don't YOU implement the cool ideas you've
> >suggested, submit 'em back to the community, and WE can all be four times
> >more productive?
> 
> I'd love to have the time but I'm spending it all in the
> develop-test-debug cycle at the moment.

Maybe you would benefit from switching to the test-develop-test cycle
of Extreme Programming instead?  It could get you out of that rut.

-Peter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 28 05:42:13 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 11:42:13 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions -- PythonWin??
References: <mailman.1017269623.17208.python-list@python.org> <a7tl7i$74o$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3pu1p0y9m.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:

> > The print does not do any conversion; it just sends bytes to the output
> stream.
> Hmm... how does it send the unicode string to the output stream?

It invokes its .write method.

> Not as raw unicode (unconverted), because print redirection throws
> an encoding exception.

Depends on what the output stream is. If it supports Unicode strings
directly, it may be able to write them without converting them. If it
is a file object, the write method invokes the ParseTuple "s"
conversion (actually, "s#" or "t#" depending on binary mode), which in
turn will, for a Unicode object, invoke the default encoding.

Regards,
Martin



From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Wed Mar 13 20:07:54 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:07:54 -0700
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net> <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com> <a6mncn$koc$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <9gcu8u483cn544anr78k67jsknuv4tb6ks@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6ota3$mvb$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Martin Kaufmann:
>I didn't quite understand this part. How should I precompute the zero
>entries? How do I know where they are? Or should I just cut them out
>before and access the histogram differently?

You have

    for s in s_vector[1:]:
        sum = 0
        for entry in hist[1:]:
            if entry[1] == 0:
                continue
            x = 2 * pi * s * entry[0]
            sum = sum + (2 * entry[1] * (sin(x) / x))
       intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum / atoms)
       i_vector.append(intensity)
       n = n + 1

The hist entries are not dependent on s, so the non-zero elements
can be pulled out beforehand.

    nonzero_hist = [entry for entry in hist[1:] if entry[1] != 0]

    for s in s_vector[1:]:
        sum = 0
        for entry in nonzero_hist:
            x = 2 * pi * s * entry[0]
            sum = sum + (2 * entry[1] * (sin(x) / x))
       intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum / atoms)
       i_vector.append(intensity)
       n = n + 1



>The list are not that long. Probably only a couple of thousands
>entries.

Then don't worry about that tweak.

>I tried to use weave.inline. Here is my code. But put your coffee away
>before you read it (you might spill it otherwise over your keyboard)
>and _please_ don't laugh out loudly.. I really didn't know what I was
>doing, but it somehow worked...

Well, I don't drink coffee.  But then, I also don't often write Python/C
extension code.  Someone else will need to check that code.

> The speed of the weave solution is quite incredible!

Factor of 8 is pretty nice, and within the normal rule of thumb people
expect for an implementation in C.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From tchur at optushome.com.au  Tue Mar 12 15:26:21 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:26:21 +1100
Subject: english thesaurus and dictionary
References: <c4e6b17d.0203120905.757d5cd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E646D.A0A29E12@optushome.com.au>

Bob Roberts wrote:
> 
> I want to incorporate an english thesaurus and dictionary into my
> application.  Does anybody know of freely available thesauri and
> dictionaries that I could use?

Have a look at Oliver Steele's PyWordNet Python interface to WordNet at
http://pywordnet.sourceforge.net

As Oliver notes, WordNet  (see http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn/ ) is
a lexical database of word meanings and lexical relationships (including
synonyms, hyponyms etc), so it can be used as a dictionary and
thesaurus, although it does much more. The WordNet database is very
extensive, though - it might be overkill in some circumstances. Both
WordNet and PyWordNet have free, open source licenses.

Tim C



From eric at vasilik.com  Sat Mar 16 02:16:51 2002
From: eric at vasilik.com (Eric Vasilik)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 23:16:51 -0800
Subject: Help with a Python ASP C extension module ...
Message-ID: <40ee0487.0203152316.70c12a49@posting.google.com>

I am writing a C extension to Python.  The reason I am writing an
extension is that I believe that the implementation of
Response.BinaryWrite() in the Window's ASP extension (I am using
Active State's Python 2.1) is not releasing the global interpreter
lock.  I am getting very poor performace using it and I believe that
my server is not taking advantage of writing out multiple streams
because of the global lock.

Instead of writing out a response with:

    Response.BinaryWrite( buffer( open( fileName, 'rb' ).read() ) )

I am now doing the following:

    PythonExt.binaryWriteFile( Response, fileName )

The difference between these two is that the first calls the default
implementation of Response.BinaryWrite and the second calls an
extension I have written which reads the file and writes it out to
response, all while the interpreter lock is released.

My problem, is I cannot find any documentation on how to get a hold of
the IResponse object from the Python Response object.  I need to get
it so that I may call BinaryWrite on without going back into the
Python interpreter.

I thought I would be able to find the source for the Response object
with the source from Active State, or the source from Mark Hammond's
win32All, but I found no references there.  Any help would be
appreciated.


From seeger at sitewaerts.de  Thu Mar  7 11:40:48 2002
From: seeger at sitewaerts.de (Felix Seeger)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:40:48 +0100
Subject: time date math problem
References: <a67h6t$c6ee2$1@ID-79019.news.dfncis.de> <a67pi3$ccomd$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a684ro$c5br6$1@ID-79019.news.dfncis.de>

Emile van Sebille wrote:

> Felix Seeger
>> Hi
>> 
>> What I want:
>> 
>> Date:
>> 
>> 20.03.2002
>> 
>> 20.05.2002 - 21.00.0000 = 30.04.2002
>> 
>> 
> 
> mxDateTime includes that and more.  Take a look at
> http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxDateTime.html
> 
Ah thanks, that works great.


have fun
Felix


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar  9 16:11:05 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 21:11:05 GMT
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net> <tsri8.24015$n4.4647816@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <a6dtp9$hc3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:17:13 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>Edward K. Ream wrote:
>> Dynamic tracing is trivial to implement.  More importantly, it is
>> simpler to use and more flexible than any static scheme such as the one
>> described in 282.
>
>except that in real systems, the end user couldn't care less
>about what/when/how your Python functions are called.
>
>they do care about syslog-compatibility, severity levels, and
>trivial things like getting the same logging messages also after
>you've refactored your program...

Yes, ISTM standardizing the format of log files is of primary importance,
and we should be careful that a convenient mechanism doesn't establish
a de facto format that locks out desirable tool synergy possibilities.
(This has to be an old itch. Is there an RFC? Shall I be lazy and just
ask rhetorically, and not google? Yes, for now ;-)

If you have a standard format it is not hard to filter single-line stuff
for particular concerns even just using grep. If you have a standard for
context-entry/context-exit logging you can use standard tools to extract
the chunks of interest. If you have time tagging standards with extended
options you may be able to glean performance/profiling info in a standard
way. You might want a cheap way to log time tagged sync into all channels.
Etc., etc., and it should be easy to filter the log(s) to drive source browsing.

The point is the log format is more important than how it got written. 

A convenient standard log module will certainly help standardizing. You
could also make it a command line option to instantiate log (and a
devlog alias) as a builtin, for even more convenience.

It might be interesting to give the parser a simple line exclusion capability
(perhaps based on name token match to supplied names). Then you could e.g. run
with devlog statements excluded (including the devlog=log alias-defining statement)
and later strip them out of the source by the same pattern. The exclusion names
could be a command line option also (just an OTTOMH idea). You could in/ex-clude
arbitrary debug functions calls similarly.

It would be nice to be able to distribute log-capable software with logging
optimized out by default, but available. I don't think that a developers'
code line exclusion capability would be suitable for that, though.

IOW, I could see a development version of software being heavily log-enabled
and assert-filled, and it would be convenient to anticipate optimizing it
out optionally during test runs, and probably stripping most of it out for
a final version. If you chose simple conventions for writing log statements
on lines by themselves, and differentiated to-be-stripped development code
from final in some standard way (something to discuss and decide) like using
e.g., a standard devlog.error("this will be stripped") alias for log, you
could make the job relatively easy.

I'd like see a log file grammar definition discussed first, before a nice
convenient log module establishes a premature de facto standard.
I'd like to see a log file grammar be part of the PEP, not just something
to be imperfectly inferred from the examples.

I recognize that the author is researching precedents and putting a lot of
effort into getting it right, but I think discussion focusing on the log
file grammar and various real uses will make future tool synergy more likely.

Tool synergy might be a good topic for a PEP section.

Regards,
Bengt Richter





From maric.michaud at cirec.com  Thu Mar 21 11:59:57 2002
From: maric.michaud at cirec.com (Maric)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:59:57 +0100
Subject: Problem with threads
Message-ID: <000201c1d0f9$d5649f20$470010ac@GERLAND2.local>

* I want to use TKinter with multi-threads, is there any solution ?
* How PyQt does support threading ?
Thanks !



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:14 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 12:31:14 -0800
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> writes:
> Makes pretty much sense to me.
> Stackless can provide light-weight threads to all platforms.
> There is no need to use OS threads unless you need it
> for I/O.

Do you think it's feasible to modify Python to use non-blocking i/o
everywhere, and then simulate blocking in Stackless?  I.e. when a
microthread does an i/o operation, Python would start the operation
asynchronously, and the Stackless microthread scheduler would block
the microthread til the i/o operation actually completes (detected
using select or SIGIO).



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 20:31:56 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 20:31:56 -0500
Subject: Python quick setup URL for Linux setup?
References: <KUMp8.42208$1f1.3348682@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886l2$t17$1@panix1.panix.com> <d1Op8.61543$Q7.48604465@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a88dac$bsq$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <d1Op8.61543$Q7.48604465 at e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>,
Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Yep, says I've got 2.1.1.  But is there an equivalent to PythonWin on
>Linux?  I'm GUI spoiled :)

Not directly.  You can use Tools/idle/ but that's not quite as refined
as PythonWin from what I've heard.  There are also some other GUI
projects, which you can find at http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
Look under Python Tools/Extensions, then Editor / IDE.

You'll also find many, many arguments on this subject by going to Gooja
and doing a search on "IDE comp.lang.python".  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 18:16:27 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:16:27 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <MPG.170e8d686c5d8561989683@news.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> In article <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
> robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk says...
> > Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying. I
> > suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
> > differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'
> 
> 1) Strings are immutable.  This implies that there is zero
> practical difference between two references to two separate
> string objects of identical value, and two references to the same
> string object.

The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
quickly by something like:

a = [0] * 1000000
for i in xrange(1000000):
    a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'

If nothing else, this confuses newbies for a while...


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Sat Mar  2 04:11:09 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:09 +0900
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net> <a5obj3$18di$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <%8Wf8.518$Az6.2357@news.hananet.net> <3C806342.E28D1ED0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Vv0g8.537$Az6.2767@news.hananet.net>

Peter Hansen scribbled with his keyboard:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> 
>> There would be a big benefit to see something like:
>> 
>> res = chmod("-c", "-R", "u=rwx,g=rx,o=", a_file, another_file,
>> a_directory)
> 
> Is that anything like
> 
>  os.system('chmod -c -R u=rwx,g=rx,o= %s %s %s' % (a_file, another_file,
>  a_directory))
>

Gotta love being on a Unix system. That's EXACTLY what it would do.

For those of you who aren't intimately familiar with 'chmod', let me tell 
you what this command does. It recurses to all the subdirectories (but not 
the ones that start with '.') and changes the mode of the files to be 
inaccessible to the world, only readable and executable to the people in 
the file's group, and readable, writable, and executable by the owner. If 
it actually made a change, it would print out the name of the file it 
changed.

> 
> If so, why are you trying to rebuild the unix shell within Python?
> (Or what am I missing?)
> 

The limitation of the above os.system call and my future, unimplemented 
chmod call would be that my function would return a list of names of the 
files it changed (provided the -c option is present, or something like 
that). It would also allow interactivity between the Python script and 
chmod, so you can have a function that will determine whether or not to 
change one particular file. So, while 'chmod' the program in the Unix 
toolbos is implemented for shells, 'chmod' the function in Python will be 
useful for Python.
 

Also because Python ports to Windows, and Windows ain't Unix. It would be 
nice to have those tools with you no matter where your program goes, rather 
than having to do:

if os.name != "posix":
    raise OSError, ("You're not using a real OS. "
        "You know that real OSes are free nowadays, don't you?.")

I wanted to write an installation script for my program. No, it's not a 
standard module - it's a game, and you certainly don't want your games to 
get mixed in with your real modules.

If all my users were on Unix systems, then I would have done it with a 
shell script. But they aren't. So I had to figure out how to get the job 
done on Windows. It looks like python was my closest bet.

I ended up writing some simple tools for the job that could have been done 
with 'sed', 'rm', and 'install' in Unix. Perhaps someone else would like to 
have these tools available to them wherever they use Python.

Jonathan




From edream at tds.net  Mon Mar  4 21:12:59 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 02:12:59 GMT
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com> <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net> <slrna884ct.kdf.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <3C84299A.20EC85A2@tds.net>

Steve Lamb wrote:

> > Another example, the otherwise superb intro to Tkinter,
> > http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
> > would be vastly more useful if it fit on a single page.
> 
>     Define "page".  If you say 800x600 you'd lose.

Good question.  How would you define a page in terms of web design?  

Eliminating most if not all scrolling on reference pages seems
particularly important. Some reference pages seem way too long.  And
your point is well taken.  I have a large monitor, but I use relatively
big fonts, so I'm only using 1024x768...

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au  Thu Mar  7 08:36:46 2002
From: dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au (Dave Harrison)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:36:46 +1100
Subject: overloading a function
Message-ID: <20020307133645.GA995@dave@isetroc.com>

Hi there all,

If I have a function, but I want to be able to call it two different ways - the ways being differentiated by the paramaters I pass the function) how do I do this ??

At the moment I have 

def Foo(num)

def Foo(num,dflt)

however I am only getting the first of the two, and the second function is ignored.

I couldn't find anything in the documentation, any ideas ?



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Mon Mar  4 13:03:42 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:03:42 +0100
Subject: Can Python do this?
In-Reply-To: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020304180342.GB4480@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 04/03/02 ? 12:51, Robert Oschler ?crivit:
> Hello, Python newbie here.
> 
> Let's say I'd like to build a method name into a string variable (e.g.
> "FuncCall" + "1" to attempt to call "FuncCall1").  Can I then call that
> method by somehow having the interpreter evaluate the string variable into a
> call to the desired method? (I know this is usually done in a language like
> Prolog or Lisp but I'm hoping Python can do it too.)
 
This can easily be done with the built-ins eval and exec. But in 99 % of
all cases, it's a really bad idea to use them. Perhaps you can tell us
what you're trying to accomplish anyway? There's usually a better way
than (ab)using eval/exec.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 5.7 ?C      Wind: 2.1 m/s



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Mar  9 12:53:17 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:53:17 GMT
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org> <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net> <tsri8.24015$n4.4647816@newsc.telia.net> <3C8A4810.85A56A1@tds.net>
Message-ID: <h_ri8.24022$n4.4649892@newsc.telia.net>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> >
> > except that in real systems, the end user couldn't care less
> > about what/when/how your Python functions are called.
> >
> > they do care about syslog-compatibility, severity levels, and
> > trivial things like getting the same logging messages also after
> > you've refactored your program...
>
> I was talking about functionality, not packaging.  Naturally, a logger
> would be a class.

hmm.  I'm pretty sure you said:

    ... the trace function uses the name of the method from
    which trace was called as the tracepoint string ....

and

    ... the app (or tracing object) maintains a dict of enabled
    tracepoint names. The user can add or delete entries in
    the dict at run time ...

which doesn't work in the kind of real-life applications I build, but
where PEP 282 would work right out of the box.

...but maybe you meant something else.

(after all, you also said "These will be my last words on this
subject" in an earlier post... ;-)

</F>




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Mar 24 17:54:36 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 00:54:36 +0200
Subject: The OOM-Killer vs. Python
References: <3c9e2b5f.9993062@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <kusn6pbmqb.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3c9e2b5f.9993062 at news.t-online.de>,
gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) writes:

| I have a python-based SMTP server (see http://p-nand-q.com/shicks.htm)
| running on our server, and in general it has worked flawless (since
| about nov 2001). However, in the recent week that dreaded linux OOM
| killer twice killed the python process. [The machine has 768mb ram -
| call me oldfashioned but that SHOULD be enough for both Linux & Python
| to get along, really. OK, its running KDE, and has only 256mb for
| swap, but still...]

i think you need more swap, also make sure you have your resource
limits configured correctly. last i heard, the linux 2.4 kernel series
had a "feature" where swap space only gave you (swapsize - physical
memory size) more vm space.

  -- erno


From hartmut.goebel at noris.net  Sun Mar 31 18:19:38 2002
From: hartmut.goebel at noris.net (Hartmut Goebel)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:19:38 +0200
Subject: ANN: bridgekeeper 0.0.1 - a Perl to Python source code converter
Message-ID: <mailman.1017654423.12311.clpa-moderators@python.org>

goebel consult proudly announces


			      bridgekeeper
			      ============
				 0.0.1

		A Perl to Python source code converter
	            http://www.crazy-compilers.com/


(N?rnberg/2002-04-01) While 2001 brought us Parott, pyperl and
pyperlish, 2002 brings to you 'bridgekeeper', a Perl to Python source
code converter.

What 'bridgekeeper' does
------------------------

'bridgekeeper' help converting Perl code to Python source. The
quallity of the output Python source depents on the quallity of the
input code.

If there are constructs within the Perl code which are not possible in
Python, you will get warnings. Eg. when using a name for both a hash
and a scalar within the same scope (%foo, $foo).

Converting Perl to Python will be a iterative process, see the
TUTORIAL for more information about this.

'bridgekeeper' consists of 

* a Perl compiler back-end emitting Python-like source and 

* a runtime Python package which tries to emulate some perl build-in
  functions.

The name was inspired be the bridgekeeper-scene in Monty Pythons
'Search for the Holy Grail'.

Features
--------

* Already converts a lot of Perl code-constructs into Python source:
  loops, special variables, function calls, lists, hashes, methods,
  etc.

* Whenever there is no equivalent Python function for a Perl function,
  the function is emulated using the included Python library.

* Includes a TUTORIAL 'How to convert Perl Code to Python Source'

* Warns about variables with same name but different type within a
  scope, eg. when using a name for both a hash and a scalar (%foo,
  $foo). This included scalars, hashes, lists, arrays and (hopefully)
  filehandles.

* Warns about mixing variables with same name but different Perl
  scoping within a Python scope, eg. using (global) $foo and my $foo
  in one scope.

* Strips statements like 'my ($foo, %bar);'; this is: my and local
  declarations without assignment.

* Special variables are renamed to their equivalent within the
  included Python library.

* 'here-documnets' are supported.

Limitations
-----------

* Does not support 'use', 'BEGIN', 'END', etc. This is due how Perl
  handles these expressions: they get executed while parsing. See the
  Tutorial for solving this problem.

* Does not handle 'bless', 'packages', etc.

* References may or may not be resolved correctly. 

* Does not convert things like 'my ($self, arg1, arg2) = @_;' into
  a pythonic argument-lists. (Hey, this would be a great feature!)

* In some rare cases Perl functions are converted to the
  nearly-equivalent Python function instead of using a emulated
  function. This is done for functions which return a value which is
  probly not often used.

* The Python libary included contains all required functions, while
  many of them are not yet implemented.

* Formats are not supported anyhow. (But I already have an idea how
  this could be done: use a class perl.Format thatfore.) This also
  includes the function 'write'.

* Separate prototype declarations are not supported, whereas
  prototypes at function definitions are taken over (as comments).

* Prefix/postfix operator are not resolved.

* Esoteric execution orders are not supported (see
  test/weird_contexts.pl).

* The Python libary included is not thread-save -- and probably will
  never become thread-save.

* A lot more :-)

Availablity
-----------

'bridgekeeper' is available for download at
http://www.crazy-compilers.com/



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 19:12:57 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:12:57 +0000
Subject: Slice objects. How to apply them to strings?
Message-ID: <upl4auo0ll9o99skacavmaf9cnnbh2qae4@4ax.com>

I'm using Python 2.1 here but this still seems to apply on 2.2

I have a little string-based class which needs to emulate strings for
most things. This includes slicing.

So I need a __getitem__ magic method. 

This will get passed a slice object.

How am I supposed to translate this into a string slice? 

This seems to be the tidiest I can come up with and it's a mess:

def __getitem__(self, item):
    if item.step:
        return self.s[item.start: item.stop: item.step]
    if item.start:
        return self.s[item.start: item.stop]
    return self.s[item.stop]

If 'item' is a slice object, shouldn't I just be able to say:

    self.s[item]
?

Wouldn't this be really sensible?

What's worse, is that I can't even do this:

import operator
operator.getitem(self.s, item)

Somebody please tell me I'm being dim and I've missed something. How
do you apply a slice object to a sequence?

Thanks
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 14:08:37 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:08:37 -0800
Subject: running python on win2k
References: <mailman.1017139719.4759.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA0C734.59DB3CE3@ccvcorp.com>


stclaus_imi wrote:

> hi, all of you.
>
> i downloaded python for win2k. i wonder how to run it via the command
> line and over the apache/iis web server.

>From the command line, simply type "python", or "python myscript.py".  If
you have .py files registered as executable, you can simply type
"myscript.py" as well -- I know that ActiveState's distribution will do
this on installation; I haven't tested whether PythonLabs' installer
automatically does this, but it's likely.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 28 05:02:19 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 11:02:19 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions
References: <a7tgrl$ipu$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <m3pu1p7fqf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a7tln9$93q$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3u1r11044.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:

> See the other posting... PythonWin does strange things when printing unicode
> directly??

Without checking, I'd say it doesn't do "strange things" - it just
does the right thing, printing the Unicode object as-is (without
converting it to a byte string first). Perhaps it does convert it to
the "mbcs" encoding before passing it to the Window API - but it might
even use the Unicode variant of the Windows API, which allows direct
output of Unicode strings. You could find out by printing a string
that has characters which are not supported in windows-1252
(e.g. GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA).

Regards,
Martin



From dever at segsrv.shr.cpqcorp.net  Mon Mar 18 16:15:22 2002
From: dever at segsrv.shr.cpqcorp.net (Dan)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 13:15:22 -0800
Subject: Python on VMS?
Message-ID: <33e9195e.0203181315.6d841d4a@posting.google.com>

Is Python available on VMS?  

There are two links given in the FAQ.  One points to a non-existant
file and the other declares that the contents have been erased and not
made available elsewhere.  (Someone should really update the FAQ.)

Thanks,
Dan


From benc1 at today.com.au  Sun Mar 10 20:46:52 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 17:46:52 -0800
Subject: Porcess control on win32
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0203101746.544e64dd@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am trying to achieve this scenario on a Win32 machine ... 

a. create a lot of new processes (ie. open application 'x' a number of
times with different args)

b. each time 1 of the processes exits ... do something

I have looked at using somehting like this

...

project_lst = ['application1', 'application2', 'application3', etc]

for application in project_lst:

    process, thread, pid, tid = win32process.CreateProcess(
    None,
    application ,
    None,
    None,
    0,
    win32process.NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS,
    None,
    None,
    win32process.STARTUPINFO())
    
    win32event.WaitForSingleObject(process, win32event.INFINITE)

    print 'Application %s Has Just Exited) % (application,)
...

The problem with this structure is it spawns each application in
sequence ... how can I modify this sructure to spawn all applications
simultaneously and still have the print statement executed only when
one of the projects exits?

thanks in advance

Ben


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar 10 13:06:44 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:06:44 GMT
Subject: Use apply() or not, and raising multiple exceptions (co-routines?)
References: <roy-5CA36F.12183910032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <UgNi8.6684$bK5.2636@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

> I could have also written this as:
>
> for check in self.checks:
>     apply (check, [data])
>
> is there any particular reason to prefer one style over the other?

It basically depends on how much you like functional programming.  Generally
people who make lists of functions will prefer using map, apply, and filter.

Even more functional than this is to write your check function to analyze
only one datum at a time.  I imagine each check function currently has a
"for datum in data:" loop as well.  If you design them to analyze one piece
of data at a time you can replace the above with:

for check in self.checks:
    map(check, data)

This will also cycle through the whole list if you handle an exception in
the check function now.  Map also creates a list of return values (this is
actaully the whole point of map) so if you return error codes from the
except: clause you can save them:

def check(datum)
    try:
        # do check stuff
    except IntegrityCheckError, message:
        return message

for check in self.checks:
    errors = map(check,data)
    for error in errors:
        if error != 0:
            print error

And if you really want to go overboard on the functional code, replace the
above with ;)

def checkData(check, data):
    map(sys.stdout.write, filter(lambda x: x != 0, map(check, data)))

[checkData(check,data) for check in self.checks]




From matthias_j at lycos.com  Mon Mar 11 01:23:55 2002
From: matthias_j at lycos.com (Matthias Janes)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 22:23:55 -0800
Subject: Binary Register entries Question
References: <d7d5ebdf.0203101039.4e8ee7ad@posting.google.com> <j4pu2cnton.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <d7d5ebdf.0203102223.2f356e27@posting.google.com>

Thank You so much.
Matthias Janes


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sun Mar  3 01:49:39 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 06:49:39 GMT
Subject: wiin32clipboard "odd" behaviour??
References: <a5noq4$5nf$1@diana.bcn.ttd.net>
Message-ID: <3C81C793.9030305@skippinet.com.au>

Javier wrote:

> So, what would I have to do to manage things "as usual"??
> 
> Ideas, pointers??

A quick groups.google search?

A search for "win32clipboard" found 
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1013975848.15752.python-list%40python.org, 
which has a simple function that works fine for me.

Mark.



From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Mar 31 16:26:33 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:26:33 +0200 (EET)
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203312201020.5602-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On 31 Mar 2002, Stefan Schwarzer wrote:

> bools and ints. For example, I consider it very unintutive that
> "True == 1" should by true but "True == 2" should be false. I


Just a random thought ...

Theorem:
========
Assume specification of PEP 285. The following statements hold truth:

  True is One

and

  False is Zero,

where One and Zero represent integers 1 and 0, respectively.

Proof:
------
According to PEP, True and False are instances of bool that is a subclass
of int. Therefore True and False can be considered as integers and it
makes sense to compare them with integers. If n is an integer then the
following statements hold

  True == n   only if n is 1

and

  False == n  only if n is 0.

Note that these statements still hold if n is varied within the set
of all standard Python objects:

  {None} U Tuples U Lists U Strings U Numbers ..

with ==-relation defined as the Python ==-relation when comparing objects
of different types.

Q.E.D.

truth-is-True-is-One-is-1-is-integer-is-bool-really-necessary?'ly

Pearu




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar 21 16:16:37 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:16:37 GMT
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7dijl$1cm9$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list at python.org>, 
  Laura Creighton wrote:

>> ( Or maybe this begs for a Slashdot like system to
>> distribute the review, grading and selection of projects. )
>> -- Steve

> You want something more like the scientific reviewing of a technical
> paper than slashdot's 'all you need to vote is a pulse'.  Otherwise
> the most popular wrong way to do something will generate the highest
> marks.  This is a very hard thing to do politically -- there is a
> tightrope between the sort of eletism which exists to keep a lid
> on new, good, creative endeavours (a flaw you can correct by inserting 
> more democracy into your process)and pandering to the worst base 
> instincts of humanity (a flaw you can correct by having higher standards
> in your selection committee).  The best way to do this is to provide
> a certain amount of meta-data with your assessment -- so we can
> find out not only that Steven Majewski thinks that XXX is cool, but
> also that Steven Majewski has a reputation around here, and most
> people think that Steven Majewski's opinion of something is valuable.

 It's a bit off-topic for this newsgroup, but relevant to this
 discussion: Advogato (http://advogato.org/ ) has a meshed reputation
 scheme.  People vote on your level (from Apprentice through Journeyer 
 to Master).  However, the effect of their vote is heavily weighted by
 their level which is determined by how others voted on them.
 People/accounts are marked as "observers" until (non-Observer) vets 
 them.  Some key "seed" accounts are initially marked as "Masters"
 and, if they are chosen wisely, the whole system seems to work
 reasonably well.  Of course you can read all about the trust metric

 If the seed users are careless, corrupt or incompetent then they 
 system will be a mutual admiration society).  Note that Raph (the
 creator of Advogato hasn't claimed that this solves any particular
 real-world problem.  I seem to recall that his intent was to have a 
 "slashdot with some quality control."

> This doesn't stop Flaming Rabid Hamster from voting that Steven
> Majewski is a fool and that every project that Steven Majerski finds
> valuable is worthless, but if this is an minority opinion of 1, then

 ...

> I think that this sort of metadata belongs in the sort of
> cataloging system we should have to implement PEP 262, as well.
> Of course, I am biased -- AB Strakt is building something to do
> this, because we think that its a huge world problem that needs
> fixing.

> Laura Creighton

 You should read about the Advogato "Trust Metric"
 (http://advogato.org/trust-metric.html ).  It's possible that 
 this could be used at python.org as a community voting scheme.
 A few seeds (Tim Peters, Guido, etc) could select lieutenants
 (Journeyers, or even Masters).  People who post intelligibly
 to that site and/or to this newsgroup might be deemed as "Apprentices"
 at least.  Someone who's contributed to the FAQ, docs, or esp.
 the code corpus (modules, or core) should probably be given Journeyer
 or Master status.  (Journeyer for a working published module and
 Master for anything that gets into the main distribution?).



From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sat Mar 30 09:04:31 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:04:31 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>              <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>  <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org>
To: "David Abrahams" <david.abrahams at rcn.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>; <python-dev at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type


> [David Abrahams]
> >       6) Should we eventually remove the inheritance relationship
> >          between Int and Bool?
> >
> > I hope so. Bool is-a Int doesn't seem like the right relationship to
> > me, unless perhaps we make Int is-a Long... naah, not even then.
>
> Hm.  In your favorite language bool is one of the integral types.
> Doesn't that imply pretty much the same thing?

Well, I try not to play favorites <0.002 wink>, but the implicit
conversion rules in C++ are admittedly and unfortunately liberal.
However, bool is detectably NOT derived from int in C++:

    void f(int const&);
    f(false); // error!
    assert(boost::is_base_and_derived<int,bool>::value); // fails!

> Anyway, do you have a use case where it matters?

Given that Bool is immutable, I have no cases other than examples of
type introspection which can be written to account for the fact that
Bool is-a Int. However, it does make certain things trickier to get
right:

numeric_types = [ Int, Long, Bool, Float, Complex ]
for t in numeric_types:
    if isinstance(x, t):
        # Do something...

This sort of thing could depend on getting the order of the list right
(I didn't).

-Dave






From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Mar  1 11:39:42 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 10:39:42 -0600
Subject: Minor, minor style question
Message-ID: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net>

Why would I prefer
  string = ""
  string = string + "abc "
  string = string + "def "
  string = string + "xyz"
over
  string = "abc " + \
	      "def " + \
	      "xyz"
?  I see a lot of the former in contexts I associate
with Visual Basic- or JavaScript-majority folkways.
Is there an attraction to the redundancy (and fragil-
ity!) I'm missing?  Are \-s *so* deprecated?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 16:44:33 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:44:33 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
Message-ID: <OF01042D70.BBC9DC0F-ON88256B72.00772EF9@i2.com>

Not clumsy at all.  I like your rewording!

Jim

=============================

Jeremy Cromwell wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>

Without trotting out ugly examples, it is cleaner than many of the current
features in python.  I'm still a relative newbie, but I remember it being a
bit jarring to need to use range() just to iterate through numbers.

It's so simple to explain and understand, that I doubt that it would be
confusing.  Here's my clumsy rewording of the tutorial:

4.3 For x in integer, and the range() Function
When given an integer rather than a sequence, the for statement iterates
over the numbers from 0 up to (but not including) the given number:

>>> for i in 3:
...     print i, i*3
0, 0
1, 3
2, 6

The given end point is never part of the generated list; for x in 10
iterates through a list of 10 values, exactly the legal indices for items
of
a sequence of length 10.

To iterate over the indices of a sequence, use len() as follows:

>>> a = ['Mary', 'had', 'a', 'little', 'lamb']
>>> for i in len(a):
...     print i, a[i]
...
0 Mary
1 had
2 a
3 little
4 lamb


If you do need to iterate over a more complex sequence of numbers, the
built-in function range() comes in handy. It generates lists containing
arithmetic progressions.  You supply the start and finish and it produces a
list from start up to finish, incrementing by one:

>>> range(5, 10)
[5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

It is possible to specify a different increment (even negative; sometimes
this is called the `step'):

>>> range(0, 10, 3)
[0, 3, 6, 9]
>>> range(-10, -100, -30)
[-10, -40, -70]

Calling range() with one number produces the same list that a for statement
iterates over for that number:

>>> range(10)
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

--- end tutorial ---

I like this proposal and would like to see it adopted.  If others like it,
they should speak up since about all we hear from are the detractors.

Jeremy Cromwell

...now let's see..<PrtScnSysRq>...<PgUp>...Hmmm, where's that <wink> key?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<





From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar  6 12:38:25 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 17:38:25 GMT
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from popen
References: <slrna8bou9.1sd.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer> <Afph8.55$_Z4.84@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <a65k6h$143m$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu>:
| Stefan Heimann scribbled with his keyboard:
|> I want to launch an external process and have stdout and stderr
|> redirected to one output stream,
|
| You are on Unix, right?
|
|> something like
|> 
|> f = os.popen('cvs status 2>&1')
|> 
|> does the right thing, but does not work on all platforms.

Apparently he is not on UNIX?  That's the right answer, as long
as popen() runs the UNIX shell.

|> If I write
|> 
|> pin, pout, perr = os.popen3('cvs status')
|> 
|> I get the output of stderr and stdout but not in the right order.
|
| What do you mean in the right order? Do you mean that it is returning in, 
| err, out or that err and out are spitting out stuff simultaneously?

Probably not simultaneous, because the C I/O library probably has
thread interlocks that prevent it, but if you want a single time
ordered stream, you'd need time stamps to reassemble it out of
two.  For example, suppose you record the output of "make", which
will be both output and error streams.  If you read them separately,
you won't be able to tell which compiler errors belong to which
make commands.

| Okay, let's talk about what is really happening deep underneath the hood.
|
| These popen functions are a shorthand for a very common thing in the world 
| of Unix. It goes something like this:
|
| 1) make three pipes (in, out, err)
| 2) fork.

I beg your pardon, but that's really not common at all.  Most UNIX
pipes are created using the shell, which makes a pipe for output only.
If you want a separate pipe for error, you're in for some gymnastics -
  (cvs status 2>&3 | sed s/^/out:/) 3>&1 1>&2 | sed s/^/err:/
And there's no Bourne shell formula at all to get all three on pipes.
More recent shells have features that could be exploited for that,
but it gets hairy.

This is not just nitpicking, because there are real good reasons why
it isn't all that common.  It's surprisingly difficult to get two
processes to cooperate reliably over multiple pipes.  That's my second
point here - even if separate output and error streams are OK in terms
of the data, they're distinctly more difficult to deal with if you
don't make some simplifying assumptions about how the other process
is going to behave.

The shell syntax to route both streams into the pipe is really the
right way to go, if it works.  If it doesn't work, we'd have to know
why not, before suggesting any answer.  (If it doesn't work on Windows,
then someone else is going to have to answer it - and the subject line
probably should have included "Windows" in the first place.)

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From deyke at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 14:38:02 2002
From: deyke at yahoo.com (Dieter Deyke)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:38:02 GMT
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
References: <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uu1rsman9.fsf@yahoo.com>

stefan antoni <sasoft at gmx.de> writes:

> sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know the
> name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
> problem is also in german.
> 
> i want to write this basic code in python:
> http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:Uugc3CH9SOQC:home.spektracom.de/ellrich/Ziegen.htm+ziegenproblem+basic+programm&hl=de
> 
> i am still going to school, and we talked about this problem in a math
> lesson. since i haven't got a basic-interpreter, i'd like to translate
> this code into python, but i don't understand the code.
> 
> anybody who knows basic and python as well?
> 
> -- 
> stefan antoni

Here you go:

# Das Ziegenproblem, Gero von Randow
# Denken in Wahrscheinlichkeiten, in Python (!)
# Der Moderator darf nat?rlich weder die Auto-
# noch die gew?hlte T?r ?ffnen

import random

print
print "Von 2000 Wechseln waren "
print
for i in range(10):
        r = 0
        f = 0
        for j in range(2000):
                a = random.randrange(1, 4)
                w1 = random.randrange(1, 4)
                while 1:
                        m = random.randrange(1, 4)
                        if m !=a and m != w1: break
                w2 = 6 - m - w1
                if w2 == a: r = r + 1
                if w1 == a: f = f + 1
        print "richtig:", r, "falsch:", f

-- 
Dieter Deyke
mailto:deyke at yahoo.com mailto:deyke at attbi.com
Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh unir jnl gbb zhpu gvzr.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 20 01:38:18 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 07:38:18 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:

> - Magnus (who also is a bit baffled as to why distutils doesn't
>   include an "uninstall" command, such as the one implemented by
>   Thomas Heller.)

That is not true. Both bdist_rpm and bdist_wininst do provide
uninstallation support.

Regards,
Martin



From garyr at fidalgo.net  Sun Mar 31 11:00:04 2002
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Garyr)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:00:04 -0800
Subject: C-API, Tuple return value refcounts
References: <mailman.1017529670.5524.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uaecmt999o50c6@corp.supernews.com>

See the post by Edward C. Jones on 7/6/01.

"Eric Merritt" <cyberlync at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017529670.5524.python-list at python.org...
> Hello All,
>
>  I have searched the archives fairly well and not
> found an answer to this question, so I thought I would
> post it to the list. I believe that this question
> stems, to some extent, from a lack of understanding
> concerning the reference counting system, so please
> keep that in mind when you answer.
>
> I am using the C-API to interface with a library
> function. Its a fairly simple interface in that it
> makes a call and returns a PyTuple to the calling
> process. It make no use of borrowed references. My
> question is this;
>
> When I return the new tuple type,
>
> 1) Do I need to increment the reference count before I
> return it (Keeping in mind that the tuple type is not
> reference out side of this function, it is simply a
> return value).
>
> 2) Do the PyObject values that make up the tuple type
> need their reference counts incremented?.
>
> In the above case I do not believe that they need to
> be incremented. Because according to the documentation
> the reference counts are incremented automatically
> when the PyObjects are created using the built in api
> functions. This, of course, creates another couple of
> questions.
>
> 1) Do I need to decref the tuple before it is
> returned?
>
> 2) Do I need to decref the objects comprising the
> tuple?
>
>
> I truly hope this question is not considered list
> clutter I have done my best to research the answers
> before I posted, but I am uncomfortable with my
> current understanding in this regard.
>
> Thank you,
> Eric
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/
>




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 14:54:05 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:54:05 -0800
Subject: Tkinter: Why won't it work?
References: <Xns91DEA230DC824AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3CA2235D.B803B0B9@ccvcorp.com>


"A.Newby" wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Below is an example exercise from "An Introduction to Tkinter" by Fredrik
> Lundh. It simply creates a box with a quit button in it. Problem is,
> everytime I click Quit, the program freezes.
>
> Is this a rare but well known bug with Tkinter, Python 2.2, or Windows 98?
> Or is more probable that it's cuz my system is screwed?

Are you running the script from within IDLE or PythonWin?  Running a GUI
program from within either of these environments doesn't work well.  (It has
to do with competing message loops within one process -- both run your scripts
in the same process as their internal code.)  The two possible solutions are
to edit in the IDE but run your script from a DOS window (using DOSkey makes
this relatively painless), or to switch to an IDE that runs your code in a
separate process (most/all commercial IDEs do this; also check out IDLE-Fork
on Sourceforge).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From roy at panix.com  Sat Mar 30 08:14:34 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:14:34 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.44.0203300124360.5833-100000@death.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <roy-F52402.08143430032002@news1.panix.com>

What should the following examples print?

>>> print {} == False
>>> print {} is False

I'm convinced the second one should print "False", but I'm not really sure 
about the first.  I also assume that

>>> print False is not True

should print "True"?

For those thinking ahead to obfuscated Python contests, I can see having 
lots of fun with this.  The following, for example, is a valid Python 
program under this PEP:

False is not True is not "False is not True"


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 14:47:47 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 19:47:47 GMT
Subject: Redirecting output in Windows NT
References: <96e9dee5.0203120044.33a1e19c@posting.google.com> <3C8DC473.2070809@skippinet.com.au> <a6lenv$i2s$0@216.39.172.122> <5cf809e9.0203121718.6d999426@posting.google.com> <u8z8xfblk.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <a6oad3$lai$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:26:06 GMT, Syver Enstad <syver-en+usenet at online.no> wrote:

>peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm) writes:
>
>> > >It is a bug in the NT command prompt.  Works OK in Win2k.  I
>> believe
>> 
>> > >there is a FAQ on it too.
>> > >
>> You state that *output* redirection works OK in Win2k. I could verify
>> that, but unfortunately it's not true for the redirection of *input*.
>> If I want to redirect input, I still have to use the form
>> 
>>     python myprog.py <inputfile
>> 
>> instead of the simpler
>> 
>>     myprog <inputfile
>
>Yes, this is a pain in the ass to say the least. Especially since
>myprog.py has to be in the current directory(or be fully specified) in
>the first version, while it just has to be situated in the os path in
>the second.
>
If you wrap it in a .cmd file the myprog.cmd doesn't have to be fully specified,
just on the path. It probably pays to specify the path to the script fully inside
the wrapped command unless you want the other effect., since it avoids searches,
might as well specify python.exe fully too. But I didn't in the following.
Your "myprog < inputfile" works:

--
 >echo "This is text in inputfile." > inputfile

 >type myprog.py
 import sys
 sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read())

 >type myprog.cmd
 @python myprog.py %*

 >myprog < inputfile
 "This is text in inputfile."

 >myprog < inputfile >outputfile

 >type outputfile
 "This is text in inputfile."
--
>Has anyone pointers to any information regarding this problem, which
>is an OS problem as far as I can see. It leads to Python programs not
>being quite real executables under the win2k and probably other win32
>os'es, which is a shame since Python is such an intensely practical
>tool.
>
I just use .cmd wrapping and put my utilities in c:\util and have
that on the path. It's a minor pain, but then you can type normally.

BTW, if you set the PATHEXT variable in NT4 (don't know others for sure)
to include .PY, then you can type myprog without the .py and the search
will go through the path for .py, .com, .bat, .exe, and whatever.
set PATHEXT=.PY;.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD will give priority to myprog.py
over myprog.exe, etc. (though you don't want to put .PY first, because
then you can't call a .cmd wrapper of the same name without using the
extension, and you still have to wrap if you want to redirect i/o).

I tried setting up a test association of .pyt to cmd.exe right in the
ftype setting, and and it works, but still no redirection. Maybe it's
possible to write a special launcher and associate to that, but if
it is, it will probably take some horrible special-code-in-title-bar
windows search for parent or something like that.

IIRC, some Perl hackers facing the problem worked up some Rube Golberg
thing to get the proper effect without wrapping, but I don't think it
was 100.000%.

Quite a while ago I wrote a win32 prog which read stdin fed by a pipe,
and there were a lot of hoops to jump though in order to get all the
data reliably and not get broken pipes, as I recall. It struck me as
really ugly at the time, and I think they had some pipe problems, so
maybe it's part of the same syndrome. If they finally fixed it in win2k,
great (assuming the EULA is acceptable, and I can install w/o internet).

Anyway, ISTM the windows legacy was about windows messages and polling loops,
with stdio pretty much relegated to DOS programs accessing virtualized BIOS
through c stdio library modules, running in a VDM. I'd guess stdio didn't
get its share of attention outside of the DOS or pseudo-DOS environment,
and wasn't a primary element in architecting cooperative processes at first.

I.e., try to ignore Unix and you will be doomed to re-inventing it incrementally ;-)

>I've tried some Google searches for this problem, but have not come up
>with anything. How are other scripting languages doing?
>
It is the same for Perl, and will work the same for any interpreter or
program started by file extension association, unless it is a native
executable, I believe.

Hm... I'd bet you could do what self-extracting zip files do, though. They have
a native .exe part that gets run normally, and the data is incorporated in
the .exe file. I'd bet you could make a python script launcher somehow that
way (not by prefixing the whole interpreter, obviously, but exec-ing it). It
might mean making the python interpreter recognize how to skip an .exe prefix
when it gets control (new invocation option?) to avoid unnecessary copying,
but it feels doable.

Thinking via keyboard again...

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz  Wed Mar 27 07:04:41 2002
From: Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz (Petr Prikryl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:04:41 +0100
Subject: Newbie: What the 'PEP' means?
References: <a7s8jv$gcb$1@news.nextra.cz>
Message-ID: <a7sch7$jkr$1@news.nextra.cz>

Oh, just found it...

I wrote...
> Just curious -- what the acronym PEP with a number means?

Python Enhancement Proposal

 P.
--
Petr Prikryl (prikrylp at skil dot cz)






From NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com  Tue Mar 12 18:05:35 2002
From: NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com (John Purser)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:05:35 GMT
Subject: struct.calcsize() giving odd results
Message-ID: <3Rvj8.27781$af7.23161@rwcrnsc53>

I'm reading from a binary file with a 180 byte record length.  I created a
format string using a seriously long stiring made up of:
x
c
h
i
15s, 31s, 2s

And that's it.  I tucked this into a variable (fmt) and ran it through
struct.calcsize(fmt) and got 190.  I assumed I'd made a typo so I went over
my string.  No problems there.  So I assumed I added it up wrong in the
first place.  Nope, 180 bytes.  I checked each charachter with
struct.calcsize() to be sure it was giving the expected value.  It was.
Then I started removing charachters from the end of my format string.  The
first two 'c's reduced the count to 188 as expected.  Then I removed an 'i'
and the count dropped to 181!!!

I took out another 'i' and the count dropped to 177.  I've duplicated this
on Debian Linux (Python 2.1) and Windows 2000 (Python 2.2) using the Idle
interactive shell.  Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or is this a
known bug?  I'm new to python and working on my first project so I'd really
appreciate the help.

John Purser

Idle session snapshot:

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import struct
>>> dog = 'x i 15s 15s 15s 15s 31s 2s c c c c c i i i i h i i i 31s c i c c
c c c i c c'
>>> struct.calcsize(dog)
190
>>> dog = 'x i 15s 15s 15s 15s 31s 2s c c c c c i i i i h i i i 31s c i c c
c c c i'
>>> struct.calcsize(dog)
188
>>> dog = 'x i 15s 15s 15s 15s 31s 2s c c c c c i i i i h i i i 31s c i c c
c c c'
>>> struct.calcsize(dog)
181
>>>




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 15:55:29 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:55:29 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF4842613D.4E021C6B-ON88256B73.00725C58@i2.com>

[James_Althoff]
> Just keep in mind that indici/indices/indexes-type proposals don't
> help in cases where __len__ is not defined.  Two-dimensional
> structures, for example.

[Greg Ewing]
> It does if we define an __indices__ protocol to
> go with it. First look for __indices__, then fall
> back on __len__.

Again, the key point that I was trying to illustrate is that with the
expanding world of Python (a very good thing, right?) -- into the realm of
Java API's via Jython, for example -- it is not going to be possible to
just insist that every class that one deals with be fixed to obey some new
protocol.  The various kinds of tables one deals with in Java via Jython,
for example.

Jim




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 17:07:32 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Apr 2002 00:07:32 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <m37knso0gr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stefan Schwarzer <s.schwarzer at ndh.net> writes:

> Regarding special uses such as RPC and databases it would suffice to
> add a "boolean" module to the standard library. This would offer a
> standard way to handle a boolean type for these special purposes,
> wouldn't it?

How would it be different from what the PEP proposes?

Regards,
Martin


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Mar  7 11:36:09 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:36:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <3C84C4F3.4090205@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203071133070.895-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Simon Willison wrote:

> marduk wrote:
> > You're better off using htmllib (and httplib for that matter).  I haven't
> > looked at your examples, but I can tell just by looking at your code that
> > it will fail, for example, when "<title>" and "</title>" are on seperate
> > lines in the HTML.  Also, I might be mistaken, but it doesn't look like
> > you are re search is case insensitive.
> >
> > Either way, try the htmllib.  It takes care of all that stuff for you!
>
> I'd love to (mainly to avoid the averhead of running lynx about a
> hundred times) - unfortunately my University web server doesn't have the
> socket module properly installed which means nearly all of the web
> related python modules won't run :/

You could install _socket.so somewhere under your own home directory
and add it to PYTHONPATH. ( Although I'm not sure how they could get
it inproperly installed -- all it takes is 'make install' -- unless
there are some particular problems with the architecure you're on. )

-- Steve Majewski





From rjk at grauel.com  Thu Mar 21 10:50:57 2002
From: rjk at grauel.com (Richard J Kuhns)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 15:50:57 GMT
Subject: A question about generators
References: <mailman.1016677895.17368.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7663pgbs1.fsf@moran.grauel.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Richard J Kuhns]
> > That's pretty much what I ended up doing -- I put a "while 1:" loop
> > around the rest of the code in the generator, and I test a "reset
> > generator" variable after each yield.  If it's set, "continue" the
> > while loop. It's kind of nasty-looking, but it seems to work.
> 
> Make the generator a method of a class.  Give class instances a "reset
> generator" variable.  Give the class a reset() method to set this variable.
> Then it's all nice, abstracted, reusable, and self-contained.
> 
> a-feature-in-isolation-is-a-feature-doomed-to-misuse-ly y'rs  - tim
> 
That's EXACTLY what I did :).  The main reason I had problems to start with
is that almost everything I've done with python feels more-or-less
"elegant", and this doesn't.  Like I said, though, it works and it's pretty
much hidden from view.

-- 
Richard Kuhns			rjk at grauel.com
PO Box 6249			Tel: (765)477-6000 \
100 Sawmill Road				    x319
Lafayette, IN  47903		     (800)489-4891 /

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
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From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar  3 23:34:12 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 20:34:12 -0800
Subject: PEP 234 little bug?
References: <3c817238@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <3C817FC1.A155DBAB@earthlink.net> <just-70EFBD.09542003032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <3C82A23F.84C66941@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a5utg4$h13$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3C82A23F.84C66941 at earthlink.net>,
Hans Nowak  <wurmy at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Should it be? This may be a dumb question, but are there important
>reasons to do this, besides conformance with the PEP? I mean, the
>current situation does do the job; "for line in file" works. What
>would be the additional benefit of making a file its own
>iterator?

The following code would work correctly:

for line in file:
    if line == 'foo':
        break
for line in file:
    pass
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 28 17:48:38 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:48:38 -0800
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nqhs$n13nl$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1017164505.29287.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa1mlo.anq.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <20020328112544.A13176@ActiveState.com> <20020328200710.GA26312@crystal.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <3CA39DC6.AA3CF28A@activestate.com>

Andrew Kuchling wrote:

> Here's another question: is there any explanation of how version
> numbers are handled?  distutils/version.py has extensive examples in
> the docstrings for the StrictVersion and LooseVersion classes, and I'm
> wondering how they'd be mapped to PPD's version tuples.  The PPD man
> page on aspn.activestate.com gives an example version tuple as
> "4,2,0,0", but it's not clear how that maps to a version number, or
> what a version number such as 2.2.1a3 would be translated to as a
> tuple.

The current PPM3 does version comparison on the server using an
algorithm which was designed for Perl (conversion to tuple is done
through the equivalent of tuple(foo.split('.')).  We could change it to
do whatever makes sense for Python.

There are lots of other questions which come up that I mean to bring up
in the discussion of the PEP.  For example, I don't particularly like
the fact that bdist_wininst creates a separate "program" in the
Add/Remove dialog on Windows.  I know why it does, but it'd be nice to
have something more granular and Python-specific, and that scaled a bit
better.

Having struggled with distutils/PPM interactions a fair bit in the last
few weeks, I'm keen to help come up with a solution which works for
distutils, Python and PPM.

Let's continue this discussion on the distutils-sig?  

--david



From john at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 02:28:03 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:28:03 GMT
Subject: Core Python Programming, chapter 5 exercises number 5-3, question on this exercise
Message-ID: <8dbo9u8jv0j9p58h4dvhqojk2154m8vict@4ax.com>

I have read pretty much every page of the book till now.  On this
question it says to take a test score input from the user and output
letter grades acording th the following scale/curve......

The issue i am having is the book hasnt covered standard input yet.
If i am wrong please correct me b/c i am stumped on this question and
most like the others until i find out from reading the rest of the
book.

Rob


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar 15 10:48:37 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:48:37 -0800
Subject: ANN: Python Imaging Library 1.1.3 (march 15, 2002)
References: <mailman.1016200826.15886.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-5880AE.07483715032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1016200826.15886.python-list at python.org>,
 "PythonWare" <info at pythonware.com> wrote:

> the secret labs proudly presents PIL 1.1.3:
> 
>     The Python Imaging Library (PIL) adds image processing capabilities
>     to your Python interpreter. This library supports many file formats,
>     and provides powerful image processing and graphics capabilities.
> 
>     Version 1.1.3 adds distutils build scripts, improved resampling,
>     screen grabbing support (windows only), and more.

Any chance of adding box filters for higher quality downsampling?

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Fri Mar 15 17:50:32 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a6tsnr$npd$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3C927AB7.54B10227@optushome.com.au>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:26:30 -0800, "Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
> 
> >Anybody have any experience generating word frequencies from short documents
> >with Python and Perl?  Given a choice between the two, I'm wondering what
> >will be faster.  And a related question... any idea if there will be a
> It'll take 15 minutes to get a program working in Python ;-)
> Ok, maybe a bit longer if your docs have tricky syntax to write
> a splitting regex for ;-)
> 
> >significant performance hit (or advantage?) from storing the data in MySQL
> >v. my own file-based data structures?
> >
> If all you want is to be able to get it back within another (or the same, later)
> Python program, check into the pickle module. You could just dump the directory
> of directories I describe below, I believe.
> 
> >I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so) documents at
> >a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.  I'm thinking that
> >the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of useless data.  Since
> >word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm guessing that I can spot
> >unusual words (my goal here) by loading up the top 80 percent or so of words
> >in the database (by occurrences) and focusing on the words that are in the
> >docs but not in the set retrieved from the database.
> >
> >Thanks for any thoughts on this and pointers to helpful examples or modules.
> >
> I'd just code up a short Python program using a python dictionary with words
> as keys and counts as values for each file, and put all these  word frequency
> dictionaries in a file dictionary with keyed by file name.
> 
> I'd bet everything fits in memory, unless you have an incredible corpus of
> words in your files, or small memory.
> 
> Isolating words will depend on document syntax etc. You may be able to do it
> by splitting with a compiled regular expression for a combination of white
> space and punctuation.

I concur with Bengt's suggested approach, plus you might want to use
something like the Porter Stemmer algorithm to convert words to their
"base" forms eg stepped -> step

See http://www.tartarus.org/~martin/PorterStemmer/python.txt for a
Python implementation.

Tim C



From eshorkey at rightbracket.com  Wed Mar 20 23:38:41 2002
From: eshorkey at rightbracket.com (Eric Shorkey)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:38:41 -0500
Subject: Embedded Python Requirements
References: <f98333bd.0203201322.2246a399@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9963D1.9050600@rightbracket.com>

I think I found it.
The first three lines are generated within getpath.c. Specifically, they 
show up when a directory named lib-dynload isn't found within the module 
path. On a normal install it is /usr/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload. It 
doesn't care if the directory is empty, just as long as it exists. I'm 
going to be changing getpath.c anyhow, so this won't impact my needs at 
all, but I thought I would share.

The last error "'import site' failed; use -v for traceback" shows up 
when site.py fails to be properly imported. Either the file wasn't in 
the module path, or there was an error in the file.

Both of these were corrected by setting the environment variale 
PYTHONPATH to a directory that contained an empty site.py and an empty 
lib-dynload directory.

I'll probably end up looking for the default inclusion of the 'site' 
module. It's somewhere in the source, so grep and I will eventually find it.

Still, I'd like to know what the site module is supposed to provide. It 
appears to do nothing but add to the search path and include a site 
customization module if it exists. Really, this appears to have no real 
use in an embedded environment. Truly embedding python would mean that a 
local python install would not be a requirement. All extension modules 
would be contained in directory separate from the usual python install 
base. Most likely it would be a subdirectory of the application python 
was embedded into.

I'd be really nice to get a ./configure option to kill the auto include 
of the site module. Also, some functions for overiding the usual 
getpath.c activities would be nice as well. Perhaps allowing the 
embedding application to specify the search paths for modules before 
initializing the interpreter.

Cheers,
Eric



Eric Shorkey wrote:
> I'm having a little trouble making a self reliant embedded build of
> python.
> I've looked at Demos/embed/demo.c, and I understand it just fine, but
> the python interpretter is generating errors on startup.
> 
> Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
> Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
> Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> 
> This occurs seemingly regardless of how I build libpython2.2.a.
> From searching previous posts, I'm able to remove the first three
> lines by simply setting PYTHONHOME in the environment. It doesn't
> matter whether the path is valid or not. Alternatively I could
> redefine my own Py_GetPath() Py_GetPrefix() Py_GetExecPrefix() and
> Py_GetProgramFullPath(). I probably will do just that. So these are
> not really the problem.
> 
> It's the last error that really has me baffled. I understand that the
> site module is always imported when the interpreter starts, but I
> really need to build my app completely self sufficient. So the site
> module will either have to be statically included, or it's necessity
> will have to be removed.
> 
> Is it possible to statically link in the site module? And what exactly
> does the site module provide that is so important that it is included
> by default? I'd like to know, because I may be able to simply do away
> with it.
> 
> Thanks!
> 




From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 10:29:38 2002
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 07:29:38 -0800
Subject: Pep 276 - if 6 were 9
References: <a656fi$bg3f4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <915a998f.0203070729.5a6f0008@posting.google.com>

Emile van Sebille wrote:

> If, in the beginning, Guido opted to call 'in' 'of', would there be a
> question of iterating over an integer?
> 
> For example,
> 
> for each of range(6):
> for each of mylist:
> for each of 6:

I would expect 'for each of 6' to produce just 6, so my answer would be 'No'.

Hamish Lawson


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Sat Mar  2 11:12:18 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 16:12:18 GMT
Subject: Profiling extensions
References: <a5qpi0$bdv$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <slrna81uf1.5rb.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Greg Landrum wrote in comp.lang.python:
> [Linux, python 2.1]
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I've got a Boostified C++ class that I'm using from Python.  The class
> supports pickling, but restoring things from pickles seems to be really,
> really slow.  I figured that I'd profile the code and find out where the
> time is being spent, but I ran into a wall.
> 
> I built both my extension modules and python itself with -pg.  Running a
> test case and looking at the gprof output only shows me numbers for the
> python interpreter itself.  This is none too edifying.
> 
> So, my question is: is there any way to trick gprof (or prof, I don't much
> care) into gathering data for the extension modules as well as the
> interpreter?

I had that problem once, too. My "solution" was to embed Python and
the extension library into a statically linked minimal test
application.

Then, I just set PYTHONPATH=. and called the init function of the
extension module. In the minimal application I then just ran my test
sript with Py_Run...

This workaround did it for me, but I'd be interested in a proper
solution to profiling extension modules as shared libraries
nevertheless.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From cce at clarkevans.com  Fri Mar 15 23:58:28 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:58:28 -0500
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
In-Reply-To: <slrna8vr25.rbm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>; from huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 12:18:13AM +0000
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org> <ayQj8.73101$hO6.5843911@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <slrna8vr25.rbm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20020315235828.A9847@doublegemini.com>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 12:18:13AM +0000, Huaiyu Zhu wrote:
| On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:39:02 GMT, Terry Reedy <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:
| >> I would like to see:
| >>     .keys()
| >>     .items()
| 
| Question:  Which is better:  items(x) or x.items()?

Does it have to be mutually exclusive?  Python has
a tradition of enabling both mechanisms.

| I think items(x) can just piggy-back on the current iterator protocol, and
| can be made to work on any iteratable objects.

Would "keys()/items()" be compatible with the iterator proposal? 
It would be extending the iterator to return pairs... this might
be a bit divergent...

| On the other hand, x.items() has to be implemented by each and every
| list-like classes.  Their subclasses need to override them whenever
| necessary. 

I like x.keys() and x.items() since it is _currently_ how
maps work already... extending the behavior to lists makes
sense to me and I don't have to "think about it".
As for the implementation difficulty, a generic "mix-in"
implementation can be provided; or even more simply one
could just assign self.items = items; self.keys = keys.

| So else being equal, I'd prefer items(x) to x.items().

I don't see why we can't have our cake and eat it too. ;)

| Question:  Which is better name: keys or indices?  items or indexed?  

I have a strong opinion here... use the same function 
names as used by a map!  A list is really just a map
such that the domain is limited to positive integers.
Having a different set of names isn't a good idea.

| I think the latter two (indices, indexed) are more descriptive of sequence
| types.  This is especially true if one ever want to use a seqdict type.

Ick.

| Question: Which name is better: iterkeys or xkeys?

Which ever works for maps; the decision should be shared
as a list is a special map with a limited domain.

Best,

Clark



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 24 22:41:40 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:41:40 +1200
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
	 <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <just-A83F08.18481924032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <qxS77UAi$ln8EwGL@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9E9C74.781B3911@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> So the question now is, how do I tell if __import__ is the built in one
> even if the import system is not fully initialized.

You could compare its type with what you really
should have been comparing it with in the
first place:

  import types
  if type(__import__) == types.BuiltinFunctionType:
    ...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 13 16:01:11 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:01:11 -0600
Subject: sorting nested dictionary
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D6894C@SRM201002>

> 
> thanks.  the following solution was also sent, seems to work, 
> but i don't know why ...
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> from pprint import pprint
> h = {'ids': {'2778xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.6, 'raw': 5.0},
>              '3059xxxxx': {'weighted': 6.1, 'raw': 6.0},
>              '3188xxxxx': {'weighted': 3.2, 'raw': 4.0},
>              '3216xxxxx': {'weighted': 10.1, 'raw': 7.0},
>              '3257xxxxx': {'weighted': 9.7, 'raw': 9.0},
>              '3266xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.8, 'raw': 3.0},}}
> 
> def compare(a, b):
>     return cmp(a[1]['weighted'], b[1]['weighted'])
> 
> pairs = h['ids'].items()
> pairs.sort(compare)
> 
> pprint (pairs)
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------

It works because....

>>> pairs = h['ids'].items()

Now, "pairs" contains a list of tuples, in the form:

pairs = [
	( '2778xxxxx', {'weighted': 4.6, 'raw': 5.0} ),
	( '3059xxxxx', {'weighted': 6.1, 'raw': 6.0} ),
	( '3188xxxxx', {'weighted': 3.2, 'raw': 4.0} ),
	( '3216xxxxx', {'weighted': 10.1, 'raw': 7.0} ),
	( '3257xxxxx', {'weighted': 9.7, 'raw': 9.0} ),
	( '3266xxxxx', {'weighted': 4.8, 'raw': 3.0} ) ]

The expression "a[1]['weighted']" returns tne value of the
item "weighted" of the second element of a tuple, so the function

def compare(a,b):
	return cmp(a[1]['weighted'],b[1]['weighted'])

returns the comparison of the "weighted" sub-element of tuples a and b.
So now, you simple sort the list, specifying this function as the
comparison function to use:

pairs.sort(compare)

ta-daa.

Ain't Python the best?

damn...

so powerful, and so easy to understand.

-gustavo



From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 28 18:03:44 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:03:44 -0800
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2> <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>
Message-ID: <a807qp$ojhct$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Charl P. Botha" <cpbotha at i_triple_e.org> wrote in message
news:slrnaa6uf4.d4j.cpbotha at crabtree.cpbotha.net...
> In article <mailman.1017345813.18473.python-list at python.org>,
> David Ascher wrote:
> > Thanks for all the interest in ActivePython.  We hope to not have
these
> > kinds of delays in the future.
>
> Just remember not to split your infinitives in the future. ;)
>

There is no longer consensus that splitting infinitives is wrong due to
the awkward constructs avoiding it often gives rise to.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar  3 23:37:04 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:37:04 -0500
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C82F9F0.2A2DBF16@engcorp.com>

Brian wrote:
> 
> z = [MyClass() for i in xrange(y)]
> 
> Is there a way to do this without the use of i?

The big advantage being?

(I'd suggest if you're just trying to save typing five
keystrokes that you find more critical things to work on first.)

-Peter


From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Tue Mar  5 12:33:39 2002
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:33:39 -0800
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

The only disappointing parts for me were:
The cover, definitly didn't seem targeted to the college crowd, but more 
to highschoolers.
No chapters on extending Python with C.
The XML chapters seemed to be an attempt to jump on the band wagon and 
sell books.

All in all, I think the book is well written.  The examples are usefull 
enough to figure out what is going on without reading the chapter (good 
for lazy programmers).  I lent it to a (non-programmer) friend and he 
found it more useful than the O'Reilly Python book.

Also, if your main intent for reviewing the book was for the money, I'd 
suggest playing the lotto instead.  Don't be so arogant that you think 
that your time is so precious as to complain about a temporary, 
predeterimined, pay scale.  They were upfront in their monatary 
compensation.  If you don't like it, don't review the book.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451



From bernie at 3captus.com  Wed Mar 13 19:20:39 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:20:39 GMT
Subject: Zope
Message-ID: <3C8FED4D.A8C0470@3captus.com>

Hi,

Are there anybody using Zope 2.4.3 with Python 2.2 in production
environment?  Problems?

Thanks in advance!


Bernie

--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein



From gargravarr at whoever.com  Sat Mar 30 17:47:25 2002
From: gargravarr at whoever.com (gargravarr at whoever.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:47:25 GMT
Subject: CGI/modpython ???
References: <mailman.1017501827.17018.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ca63f80.30910126@news.tiscali.no>

If you are using Linux, there's a mod_snake for the Apache web-server
server. Haven't tried it though, since I realized I could use Python
with CGI instead. Much simpler for my taste. Mod_python has some
'handler' thing, which I couldn't really get working.

You sort of had to use mod_python this way:
http://somewhere/test.py/test2 where test2  had to be a function in
the in the test.py script.


On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:49:44 +0930 (CST), Michael Hall <olc at ninti.com>
wrote:

>
>I've got to stop replying to my own emails ...
>
>Anyway, further to my last two posts (see below), I have another question
>or two:
>
>- modpython hasn't been updated for a while ... is it still being
>developed?
>
>- where is HTML-embedded Python at? modpython's author refers to several
>different systems in circulation and a lack of consensus on how to do it.
>
>Thanks again
>
>Mick



From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Mar  7 12:48:13 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:48:13 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:09:42 +0100."
             <3C8774A6.52CF7F3A@spam.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <E16j1zx-0005rB-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Bj?rn Lindberg <d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se> wrote:

> > void a_function ()
> > {
> >         sentry1 s1, s2;
> >         ...
> > }
> >
> > ? Will s1 be destructed before s2 by all compilers? Guess, I never
> > cared about that because I tend to use multiple declarations myself.
>
> The destruction order is always opposite of the construction order.

Agreed. I relied on that.

> In this example s1 will be constructed first followed by s2.

And here I am wary. Does the standard prescribe this? For normal
expressions at least, you can't rely on evaluation order. But then, in
comma separated expressions you can. So maybe this is safe after all.

Don't-really-want-to-refresh-my-C++-ly yr's,

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From jlh at cox.net  Wed Mar  6 22:04:42 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:04:42 GMT
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net>

"Geoff Gerrietts" <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list at python.org...
> Quoting Ramkumar Kashyap (rkashyap at sympatico.ca):
> > This is extremely non-intuitive to most people.  Most 5,6,7 year olds
> > can speak fluently in their native languages, but how many of them could
> > tell you about vowels, consonants, nouns, verbs, adjectives.  In fact
> > quite a few of them speak multiple languages, can easily differentiate
> > sentence structures in those languages, but would be hard-pressed to
> > give defintions of the above.
> >
> > So how come in programming, we ALWAYS jump into the constructs of a
> > language, rather than just doing, gaining proficiency and then
> > understanding how it is put together?
>
> I think the analogy here is interesting and useful, and bears
> consideration. I think that what you're asking for -- a reexamination
> of the pedagogy surrounding computer programming -- is useful.
>
> I would hesitate to suggest that your methodology is exactly
> appropriate, though. Here's why:
>
> - Go speak to a five or six year old child for a few hours. Engage
>   them in any conversation you like, but make them talk, make them use
>   the language for an expressive purpose. Their facility with the
>   language is reasonable at this age, but far from mastery. Only the
>   mentally disabled standardize at this level; even the stupid
>   standardize at grade 5 or older.
>
> - Observe a two or three year old. Engage this child in conversation.
>   It won't last long, but try it.
>
> For the space of around three years, a child is immersed almost
> constantly, from waking to sleep, and even sometimes while asleep, in
> language. For those first three years, the child is almost completely
> incapable of making him or herself understood.
*BUZZ* Sorry, but as a parent I can firmly say that children can make a
point well before 3 years. In fact, by 12-16 months they have the ability to
utter rudimentary words, associate action and reaction and are deeply
focused on interpersonal relationships, among other things.  First words are
normally, familial (i.e mom/dad/et al), then "NO," then "More" with a slew
of words of interest to them come next.

> Some of this is the challenge of spoken language, the challenge of
> making your voice modulate to form the right sounds. Much research
> exists to show how young children can learn to sign long before they
> can learn to speak; if you eliminate the difficulty of speaking, you
> might get it down to age 2 or so. That's still 2 years in which the
> child can barely be understood if at all, and another three before the
> most basic constructs are reliably produced.
>
> People don't get smarter as they get older, they just have a better
> foundation for building on. It would be just as difficult for someone
> to learn programming through reading or transcribing lots of text as
> it would be for someone to learn French by riding the Metro all day
> long.
This depends on how you define "smart."  I refer to smart as the mixture of
wisdom + experience + ability to intuit.  <wink>

> People don't get "smarter" as they get older, though they do develop
> strategies for learning that enable them to learn things more quickly.
> Most of those strategies revolve around identifying patterns early,
> and spending most of the learning time exploring the "borderline
> behavior" that describes the limits of the pattern.
>
> That's why we go into constructs early, because those are the
> patterns. The next step for the educated learner is to explore the
> limits of these patterns -- what they can and can't do. This is where
> a great deal of practice can be immensely useful.
>
> A heavily practice-based pedagogy could be a very good thing,
> especially if the practical applications were designed to explore
> recently-introduced concepts to show when the pattern applies, and
> when it does not.
>
> My belief is that most people find computer programming to be
> difficult because logic is not the natural way people think; it is a
> forced mode. People tend to think intuitively, using "gut feelings"
> and good guesswork. That's the way we tend to summarize the knowledge
> of our experiences: as gut feelings.
I agree with you here.

> Expressing things in a purely logical fashion is consequently
> difficult for people, and very few ever receive formal training in
> logic. What's worse is that trying to teach logic at the fundamental
> level doesn't immediately apply. Logic itself is a tool that a person
> must learn to use, and could easily fill several courses by itself.
>
> --
> Geoff Gerrietts             "Punctuality is the virtue of the bored."
> <geoff at gerrietts net>                               --Evelyn Waugh

I do believe that Ramkumar's point is valid.  <my $0.02>Children, especially
the young, suffer from fewer of the social pressures that retard adult
learning.  The most salient, is the disregard for being wrong.  Adults, I
believe, hamper their own learning process by limiting their questions or
not asking them if they feel that by exposing their "knowledge holes" they
are negatively impacting the social surroundings.  (i.e. Don't want to look
stupid in front of the class.)  Unfortunately, the fastest way to learn
something new is to expose your limited knowledge to the
teacher/instructor/peers so that they can more effectively rid you of
misconceptions and fill-in those "knowledge holes."  I have a strong
suspicion this is why adults have a relatively more difficult time learning
new spoken languages than children do. (vocabulary that is, pronunciation is
another issue) </my $0.02>




From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Tue Mar  5 14:16:33 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:16:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: map-like function on dict values?
References: <slrna7r0hi.bkl.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>        <mailman.1014861466.23611.python-list@python.org>        <slrna7suon.5gr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <mailman.1014929989.16553.python-list@python.org> <a5q3i4$5nt$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8a6ch.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:46:52 -0500, Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>
>def tunedmap(f, d):
>        return map( d.__setitem__, d.keys(), map(f, d.values()) )
>
Yes, that's a good point.

Since there are so many variations on this theme, I decided to do it
thoroughly last weekend.  It turns out that the most traditional approach
(iterkv) is the odd one out - It is many times slower than the rest, which
are all similar.  Why?


#!/usr/bin/env python
from time import clock

def emptyloop(f, d):
	for i in xrange(len(d)):		pass
def emptyloopcall(f, d):
	for i in xrange(len(d)):		f(None)

def iter(f, d):
	for k in d:					d[k] = f(d[k])
def iterk(f, d):
	for k in d.keys():			d[k] = f(d[k])
def iterik(f, d):
	for k in d.iterkeys():		d[k] = f(d[k])
def iterkv(f, d):
	for k, v in d.items():		d[k] = f(v)
def iterikv(f, d):
	for k, v in d.iteritems():	d[k] = f(v)

def mapv(f, d):		map(d.__setitem__, d, map(f, d.values()))
def mapiv(f, d):	map(d.__setitem__, d, map(f, d.itervalues()))
def mapkv(f, d):	map(d.__setitem__, d.keys(), map(f, d.values()))
def mapkiv(f, d):	map(d.__setitem__, d.keys(), map(f, d.itervalues()))
def mapikv(f, d):	map(d.__setitem__, d.iterkeys(), map(f, d.values()))
def mapikiv(f, d):	map(d.__setitem__, d.iterkeys(), map(f, d.itervalues()))
		
def timeit(test, f, d):
	_time = clock()
	test(f, d)
	print test.__name__, clock() - _time

if __name__ == '__main__':
	def f(x): pass
	d = {}
	for i in xrange(1000000):		d[i] = None

	timeit(emptyloop, f, d)
	timeit(emptyloopcall, f, d)
	timeit(iterik, f, d)
	timeit(iter, f, d)
	timeit(iterikv, f, d)
	timeit(iterk, f, d)
	timeit(mapikv, f, d)
	timeit(mapv, f, d)
	timeit(mapkv, f, d)
	timeit(mapikiv, f, d)
	timeit(mapiv, f, d)
	timeit(mapkiv, f, d)
	timeit(iterkv, f, d)

"""
Output
emptyloop 0.83
emptyloopcall 2.81
iterik 3.58
iter 3.62
iterikv 3.72
iterk 3.92
mapikv 4.63
mapv 4.64
mapkv 4.93
mapikiv 5.68
mapiv 5.76
mapkiv 5.91
iterkv 25.57
"""


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Mar 14 08:09:57 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:09:57 +0100
Subject: Python-DB2 module and DB2 Connect
Message-ID: <3C90A125.4020208@stroeder.com>

HI!

Anyone here which had success with using DB2-Python-0.991 (see 
ftp://people.linuxkorea.co.kr/pub/DB2/) build against DB2 Connect?

Ciao, Michael.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 15:45:35 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:45:35 -0800
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net> <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com> <mailman.1016700873.1797.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A466F.7D6D6AE9@ccvcorp.com>


Dave Swegen wrote:

> > Rich Salz wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define?
> > >  >... are globals the only way to go?
> > >
> > > You can at least make them class attributes
> > >         class constants:
> > >                 pi = 3.14159
> > >                 e = 2.71828
> > > adding your own setattr can serve to make them read-only.
>
> I'm basically after a single file where such values can be stored, and
> then used in various parts of the program without having to pass extra
> configuation variables around.

One option that I have used, is to create a separate module called
constants.py, and defined my constants/configuration variables there.  Then,
every module in my project can simply do something like:

import constants
area = constants.pi * (radius ** 2)

You can use some interesting hacks to make the constants module read-only,
if necessary (see the ASPN Python Cookbook), but since I'm typically the
only person using my code I've decided to simply trust myself.  ;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Mar 15 08:32:19 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 14:32:19 +0100
Subject: how do i get  xml.sax.make_parser()  to work on solaris and cygwin python
References: <be58dbe.0203141953.72bd94a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j43cz2ez30.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

ayinger1 at pacbell.net (andrew) writes:

> it looks like neither cygwin nor solaris python installation includes
> expat libraries.  any idea how i can get this working?

You need to obtain a copy of expat from expat.sf.net.

Regards,
Martin


From guido at python.org  Sun Mar 31 18:00:37 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:00:37 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017531239.13331.python-list@python.org> <a871lv$a3i$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA79606.A0C1B055@python.org>

> What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
> elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of Boolean
> above.

I didn't see any good reasons for calling it truth(). :-)

I am reminded of ABC, Python's predecessor.  Its designers were very
concerned about newbies being confused by traditional computer science
terms like "function", "procedure" and "variable", so they invented
all new terminology.  Functions ended up being called YIELDs,
procedures were HOW-TOs, statements became commands, and variables
became locations.

The main effect this had was to confuse the died-in-the-wool
programmers; it didn't make any difference for the newbies because
they had to learn the concepts anyway.  When you come in with a
blank mind it doesn't matter if a particular concept is called
"variable" or "waffle" -- you have to learn a new meaning for an
existing word either way, and the previous meaning you knew for the
word is barely relevant in the new context.

So, I am adamantly against using "truth" for the new type -- many
languages (all the way back to Algol-60 and Pascal) call it Boolean or
bool.  Given 'int', 'def' and 'dict', 'bool' feels more Pythonic than
'boolean'.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From nanacyfinkle at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 20 23:11:25 2002
From: nanacyfinkle at sympatico.ca (Nancy Finkle)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:11:25 -0500
Subject: Sociologist uses Python to help prove Slobodan Milosevic's part in Kosovo atrocities...
Message-ID: <R6dm8.17485$V94.1731242@news20.bellglobal.com>

Impressive.
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51106,00.html




From MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de  Thu Mar  7 12:32:25 2002
From: MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de (maximilianscherr)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:32:25 -0000
Subject: hexstring to string?
Message-ID: <a68879+ija7@eGroups.com>

i made a function to convert a hex string containing character to a 
normal string.

it looks like this:

class ConversionHandler:
    def ConvertHexToStr(self, hex):
        letter = 0
        str = ''
        while len(str) < len(hex) / 2:
            nextletter = letter + 2
            str = str + chr(int(hex[letter:nextletter], 16))
            letter = nextletter

        return str

hex looks like: 414243

but why does it not work?




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Mar 13 08:04:39 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 15:04:39 +0200
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <e_Dj8.31522$l93.6228619@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <kur8mofwk8.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <e_Dj8.31522$l93.6228619 at newsb.telia.net>, "Fredrik Lundh"
<fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

| Robin Becker wrote:
|| Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability impact zlib.pyd?
| only if the guys implementing your C library decided to inter-
| pret "undefined behaviour" as "force the operating system to
| run code designed to take over the computer".
|
| dunno about MSVC; the CRT documentation only says that
| things like this may "cause errors".

many malloc implementations use doubly linked lists in a way that
could make them vulnerable to this sort of exploit. 

for the general idea see
eg http://security-archive.merton.ox.ac.uk/bugtraq-200010/0084.html

  -- erno


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 08:21:30 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:21:30 +0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com> <gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <a5ntnn$8t3dn$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <TsElcJAaB4f8EwQA@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <a5ntnn$8t3dn$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller
<theller at python.net> writes
.....
>> Is there a proper way to get the 8.3 name?
>
>>>> import win32api
>>>> win32api.FindFiles(r"c:\Program Files")
>[(49, <PyTime:10/5/2000 9:34:56 AM>, <PyTime:3/1/2002 12:42:28 PM>, 
><PyTime:2/26/2002 3:38:17 PM>, 0, 0, 100, 1244528, '
>Program Files', 'PROGRA~1')]
>>>> win32api.FindFiles(r"c:\Program Files")[0][-1]
>'PROGRA~1'
>
>Thomas
>
>
thanks, but it would still be better to get the popen methods to work
properly wouldn't it?
-- 
Robin Becker


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 13:46:15 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:46:15 -0600
Subject: Message bug?
In-Reply-To: <9peh9u81e5722mbtgaei2grngvcgu7g2al@4ax.com>
References: <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj@4ax.com>
        <slrna9hdu2.ec3.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
        <9peh9u81e5722mbtgaei2grngvcgu7g2al@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15512.55543.795874.459018@beluga.mojam.com>

    Dale> It would be nice to include the module name, though.

Patch submitted to SF:

    https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=532638&group_id=5470&atid=305470

Please give it a try.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Wed Mar  6 13:37:17 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:37:17 -0700
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192215151@admin56.narex.com>

> From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu] 
> Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops

Thanks for writing the PEP.

I see this as a general proposal for a range syntax, and I disagree with
it because:

  - it doesn't handle the general range issues, i.e. step value,
    and if we had to add yet another syntax to get general ranges
    it would be too confusing.

  - I would like range objects to be first class, ie. I would want
    to be able to pass ranges to functions, return them from 
    functions, and do all the other things one can do with first
    class objects. This proposal only adds syntactic sugar to the 
    for loop.

  - It doesn't make the general case trivial, i.e. 
    for 0 <= i < len(mySequence) is not much better than 
    for i in range(len(mySequence) and is more verbose than
    for i in len(mySequence).

-- bjorn



From sjh at shic.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 05:44:26 2002
From: sjh at shic.co.uk (Steve)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 02:44:26 -0800
Subject: calldll and threads...
References: <ef8e9188.0203261003.3b7a7681@posting.google.com> <3CA0F1B4.9060306@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <ef8e9188.0203270244.7938d6e2@posting.google.com>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message 
> This is a common problem, not just with calldll.  Although you released 
> the lock OK, you will probably find that you did not re-acquire the lock 
> as calldll made callbacks into your code.  What was the callstack when 
> you crashed?

I won't bother you with the call stack (which was most uninteresting -
depth 2 in the pre-compiled python.exe when it had an address
exception)...  I hadn't realised that the C-API calls to
PyArg_ParseTuple() or Py_BuildValue() constituted call-backs into
Python in the context of the global lock. (I think it would be an
improvement if the manual made this point explicitly.)

Anyhow... my trivially modified calldll module is now happily allowing
me to make blocking calls in spawned threads without blocking all my
python threads. All's cheerful this bright spring morning - thanks...

Steve


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 28 18:57:15 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:15 -0800
Subject: Exceptions and modules / namespaces question
References: <1136f745.0203281521.76a1a62c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a80av4$omfbt$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Preston Landers
> The problem, in a nutshell, is that I can't seem to catch an exception
> in the same module it was defined in if the function that raised the
> exception is in a different module, because of naming issues.
>

It seems to me that you have a __main__ vs module1 issue.  When module2
imports module1, it gets a new copy, not __main__.

> -------module2.py:
>
> import module1
>
> def raise_foo_exception():
>    raise module1.FooException("HELLO")
>
> -------module1.py:
>
> import exceptions, sys
>
> class FooException(exceptions.Exception):
>    pass
>
> def main():
>
>    try:
>        import module2

if you import module1 here


>        module2.raise_foo_exception()
>    except FooException, e:

then except module1.FooException

it may work.  Better perhaps to define your exceptions in a separate
module and import it into both.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Mar  4 09:03:23 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:03:23 +0000
Subject: The Text Widget
References: <5Hzg8.72869$vP.290047@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C82E8C4.24531DE7@tds.net> <a5vcb6$2vbb$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C833DB8.6A4EB165@tds.net>
Message-ID: <a5vr39$lps$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> Are you sure?

Yep. Definitely. In fact, we were doing the same thing than you: a syntax 
highlighting text editor. And we never did any after_idle in it, so you can 
do it just via regular bindings.

> Note that my main testing was done on Windows, if that
> makes any difference.

It should not: our editor works the same on Windows and Unices.

> If you have an example of fancy bindings for Text widgets I'd love to
> see it.  Thanks.

We had indeed to do some bizarre things to be sure that we were informed of 
anything that happened to the text. This included for example a custom 
management of the X selection (which has a pre-defined binding under X 
Windows, but is really hard to catch), and a few other things. We decided 
that we would work at the line level: changes are identified on lines (not 
at the character level or for the whole text...). Here is a very simplified 
example of what we did, just showing how you can catch almost everything 
that happens on a Text (a few things may have slipped by in the 
simplification, but hopefully not much):

---------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

t = Text(root)
t.pack()

oldSel = 0

## Prints the current line number and contents
def printCurrentLine(prefix=''):
  l, c = t.index(INSERT).split('.', 1)
  print '%sCurrent line is %s: "%s"' % \
    (prefix, l, t.get("%s.0" % l, "%s.end" % l))

## Called when a key is pressed
def keyPress(event):
  global oldSel
  printCurrentLine("Before: ")
  ## Put a custom tag on the selection at the key press
  oldSel = 0
  t.tag_delete('oldSel')
  sel = t.tag_ranges(SEL)
  if not sel: return
  start, stop = sel[0], sel[1]
  t.tag_add('oldSel', start, stop)
  oldSel = 1

## Called when a key is released
def keyRelease(event):
  printCurrentLine("After: ")
  ## If the custom tag was set and doesn't exist anymore,
  ## the selection disappeared
  if oldSel and len(t.tag_ranges('oldSel')) == 0:
    print "Selection was deleted"

t.bind('<KeyPress>', keyPress)
t.bind('<KeyRelease>', keyRelease)

root.mainloop()
---------------

As I said, there's certainly a few things missing, but starting from that, 
you should be able to actually identify every single change that happened 
to your text.

HTH
 - eric -




From mnations at airmail.net  Fri Mar 22 14:48:45 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 11:48:45 -0800
Subject: Formatting dilema using Grid option
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203221148.7a01cc4@posting.google.com>

I am trying to lay things out with a grid. Here is the code I have
right now:

...
for testgroup, titles, groupRow, groupCol in testGroups:
			self.newGroup = Pmw.Group(modFrame, tag_text=titles)
			for module, row, col, status, color in testgroup:
				setattr( self.modVar, module, IntVar() )
				self.modButton = Checkbutton(self.newGroup.interior(),
text=module, state=status, anchor=W,
					variable = getattr( self.modVar, module)).grid(row=row, col=col,
sticky=W )
			self.newGroup.grid(row=groupRow, col=groupCol, sticky=NSEW )
...

Basically I have two lists of tuples, testGroups and another list
contained in testGroups.All of this works very nicely and I get the
layout almost like I want. It more or less looks like this:

aaaabbbbcccc
bbbbccccaaaa
ccccaaaabbbb

The only problem is that all of the groups are centered in the middle.
The elements in the groups are checkboxes that I want to be aligned on
the left side of the boxes. I've fiddled around with as many different
options as possible, and finally got the boxes to be equal sizes
within the grid. However, I just can't pull everything to the left
side of the boxes. How can I do this?

Thanks,
Marc


From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Mar  4 06:49:26 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:49:26 +0000
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C835F46.2060002@mxm.dk>

Siegfried Gonzi wrote:

Nice report from the trenches!

But your code seems a little verbose.

Maybe I have misunderstood the requirements but how about something like 
(untested):

def readInFloats(file,nHeader=0, whatDel=',',NaN='NIL',NaN_NumPy=-1.0):
     result = []
     f = open(file,'r')
     rows = f.readlines()
     f.close()
     for row in rows:
         resultCol = []
         columns = row.split(whatDel)
         for col in columns:
             try:
                 col = float(col)
             except:
                 col = NaN_NumPy
             resultCol.append(col)
         result.append(resultCol)
     if len(result[-1]) == 0: # empty row in the end?
         return result[:-1]
     else:
         return result


That should return a list of rows, that are lists of numbers.


> def readInFloats(file,nHeader=0, whatDel=',',NaN='NIL',NaN_NumPy=-1.0):
>         f = open(file,'r')
>         s = f.readlines()
>         #
>         cols = 1 + s[nHeader].count(whatDel)
>         rows = len(s) 
>         ergArray = zeros((rows,cols), Float)
>         count_rows = nHeader
>         for x in range(nHeader,rows):
>                 start = 0
>                 floatString = s[x]
>                 if not floatString.isspace():
>                         count_rows = count_rows + 1
>                         for y in range(cols):
>                                 if y < (cols - 1):
>                                         indx =
> floatString[start:].find(whatDel)
>                                         dummy =
> floatString[start:(start+indx)]
>                                         if dummy == NaN:
>                                             ergArray[x,y] = NaN_NumPy
>                                         else:
>                                             ergArray[x,y] = float( dummy
> )
>                                         start = start + indx + 1
>                                 else:
>                                     dummy = floatString[start:]
>                                     if dummy == NaN:
>                                         ergArray[x,y] = NaN_NumPy
>                                     else:
>                                         ergArray[x,y] = float( dummy )
>         print 'fertig'                  
>         return ergArray[nHeader:count_rows,]




From barry at zope.com  Fri Mar 22 11:36:21 2002
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:36:21 -0500
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org>
	<7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>
	<5018757AF2@kserver.org>
	<15510.52003.132317.429577@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <15515.23941.31919.372322@anthem.wooz.org>

[re: a bug in Python 2.2's email package...]

>>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw <barry at zope.com> writes:

    BAW> The workaround is simple, if you're creating a multipart/*
    BAW> you need to make sure that the payload is a sequence
    BAW> (typically, a list).  But this is an unsatisfying answer.  I
    BAW> haven't decided yet what, if any, proper fix there should be.
    BAW> Maybe the Generator should be more forgiving.

Indeed, this is what I decided to do for Python 2.2.1.  This bug
should now be fixed in the Python 2.2.1 cvs branch.

I will be working out separate patches for the standalone email
package, and for Python 2.3.

Thanks to everybody who helped with this!
-Barry



From joonas at olen.to  Sat Mar 23 13:14:07 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:14:07 +0200
Subject: MySQLdb
References: <mailman.1016870917.2350.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9CC5EF.EB0CF7D1@olen.to>

Michael Hall wrote:
> 
> G'day All:
> 
> I've been writing PHP/MySQL for a couple of years now and am now
> cross-skilling into Perl and Python. I'm interested in web database
> integration for Python CGI scripts.
> 
> Is this the right list for general questions about using the MySQLdb
> module?
> 
> If so:
> 
> I have installed the MySQLdb module but find the docs pretty sparse. Can
> anyone suggest a good tutorial that demonstrates the basic moves in
> extracting and printing data using MySQLdb? I guess I'm looking for a
> `translations' of PHP routines like:
> 
> $query = mysql_query("$sql");
> while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($query))
> {
>         $data0 = $row[0];
>         $data1 = $row[1];
> }
> 
> Also, a newbie-friendly discussion of MySQL modules (history/variety)
> and things like MySQLdb versus _mysql would be helpful.
> 
> If not:
> 
> Where do I go?

Check out the DB-API docs at http://www.python.org/topics/database/


From laz at strakt.com  Tue Mar  5 11:09:53 2002
From: laz at strakt.com (Fredrik Juhlin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:09:53 +0100
Subject: ICU wrapper for Python?
In-Reply-To: <j4r8mz58wu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1012816506.11178.python-list@python.org> <m3g03kq9z8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015320253.14747.python-list@python.org> <j4r8mz58wu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020305160953.GE15135@strakt.com>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 04:30:41PM +0100, Martin von Loewis wrote:
> Fredrik Juhlin <laz at strakt.com> writes:
> 
> > However, I'm relying on the fact that since Python uses UCS-2 and ICU uses
> > UTF-16 for their respective internal format, any Python unicode string can
> > be used as an ICU unicode string. So for the collation I don't need to do
> > any conversion between the two. To expose the codecs, one would have to
> > convert the resulting strings from UTF-16 to UCS-2.
> 
> I'm a bit slow here: Why do you think Python uses UCS-2 and not
> (simultaneously) UTF-16? What kind of conversion would you perform?
Maybe I'm the one that's slow, or possibly horribly confused.
Actually, I'm pretty damn sure that the docs I read at home said that
Python used UCS-2 rather than UTF-16. But looking at the online docs
they're saying UTF-16. So what I thought would be a problem apparently
won't be. Which is good news :)

> > If you're interested in what I have so far, I'll stick it on a web server
> > for downloading. That'll have to wait until tonight though, since my
> > latest version is at home.
> 
> That would be nice. If you don't mind, I'd also incorporate it into
> the CVS of the i18n SIG (python-codecs.sf.net - it's a bit more
> general than just codecs, hope that doesn't cause problems).
I'm not sure if you're wondering if I will have a problem with that or if
the i18n-sig will. But I want to be able to continue work on it so as long
as I can access the CVS I don't have a problem with it. I just don't know
how to go about incorporating it :)

//FJ



From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Mon Mar 25 06:52:37 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:52:37 +0100
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
References: <mailman.1017027939.3632.python-list@python.org> <3C9EA59A.D3F76D2F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0F85.345200F2@spam.nada.kth.se>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> By the way, how can Python code get "stuck"?  Is it a logic flaw,
> or are you talking about the kind of "stuck" that used to happen,
> in the "old days", when we were always writing code in languages
> which would actually crash the computer?

Which language has ever been known to crash the computer? Perhaps you
are referring to earlier MS operating systems, which were known to crash
themselves?


Bj?rn


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar  6 08:04:47 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 13:04:47 GMT
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8c4vi.181.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Artur Skura wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Michael Str?der wrote:
>>>>>>s = i("Value is $n")
>> 
>> Maybe it's me but I can't see the advantage over using
>> 
>> >>> s = "Value is %s" % (n)
>> 
>> How about providing a more complex example illustrating the benefits 
>> of istring?
> 
> Should I paste from their page? ;)
> 
>         Why would I want to interpolate variables when I could use %s
>         notation?
> 
>       Ask yourself which query is clearer:
> 
>       (1) db.query("""SELECT    foo, bar
>                       FROM      %s
>                       WHERE     rsrc_id = %s
>                       AND       name = '%s'" % (table, rsrc_id, name))
> 
>       Or:
> 
>       (2) qry = istring("""SELECT   foo, bar
>                            FROM     $table
>                            WHERE    rsrc_id = $rsrc_id
>                            AND      name = $.name""")
                                             ^^^^^^^

There's a reason for cursor.execute(query_string, parameters) being in
the DB-API. Only the DB module can know how to put the parameters
there correctly with quoting and all.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From dietmar at bronko.fh-wedel.de  Wed Mar 20 19:40:10 2002
From: dietmar at bronko.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 00:40:10 GMT
Subject: Attachments to the list/group - OK?  (Was Re: Popular style document?)
References: <mailman.1016647893.2182.python-list@python.org> <IR5m8.37085$N7.6537007@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9ibkr.ev.dietmar@bronko.fh-wedel.de>

Hello,

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I wasn't aware that the "attachment" concept was even
> applicable to Usenet articles.

Well, there are things such as binaries or images groups where people
constantly exchange files. Can't you simply attach them, or do they post
them inline?

Greetings,
Dietmar

-- 
I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Mar  7 09:02:48 2002
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 15:02:48 +0100
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
References: <Tjig8.5306$H17.1119368328@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> <zGsg8.165877$dh.43603923@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3C8337AB.2080806@geneva-link.ch>
Message-ID: <wzvgc8lblj.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Boris^2 <borcis at geneva-link.ch> (B) writes:

B> Darrell wrote:

>> Tim Peters Explains it here.
>> http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ed6a75bc5eed7ee9&seekm=000401be9e6d%2427a98ec0%24029e2299
>> Searched on "tim peters match"
>> It's result 203$


B> Tim expounds there that :

>>> "Regular expressions can't count" -- nested brackets are beyond their
B> abilities.

B> Nevertheless, searching google groups with "context-free expressions" turns
B> up :

B> http://groups.google.ch/groups?q=context-free+expressions&hl=de&selm=1v35mpINNl78%40uwm.edu&rnum=1

B> that tells a slightly different (and interesting) story.

Not different. First it is as its subject says, about context-free
expressions rather than regular expressions. Moreover:

* Regular expressions are characterized as degree-0 context free expressions
* Degree 1 context free expressions are exactly those that can be processed
  by counter automata (a finite state automaton that uses a counter instead
  of a stack) 

I.e to count you need at least a degree-1 context free expression, you
can't do it wqith a degree-0 context-free expression (a.k.a. regular
expression).

In fact python's regular expressions are a little bit stronger than the
theoretical ones because of the allowed \n constructs, but still can't
count. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Fri Mar  8 06:58:00 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:58:00 +0100
Subject: PyQT: QString to String Problem if ASCII>128
Message-ID: <3C88A748.2F95D854@gmx.de>

Hi,

I get an error if i want to convert a QString with characters >ASCII 128
to a string:

>>> from qt import *
>>> s=QString("Hallo")
>>> s=QString("Hallo")
>>> print s
Hallo
>>> t=QString("G?lleg?lle")
>>> print t

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

Any Idea how to avoid this?

Ingo




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar  6 20:04:51 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:04:51 -0500
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015447632.27606.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86BCB3.22C1BE4B@engcorp.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Julio> I am used to do web scripting using PHP. As a new adventure, I am
>     Julio> trying to learn Python....
> 
>     Julio> So, I am looking for examples that might help me. Yes, I saw
>     Julio> Zope.  Waaaaay too much....
> 
>     Julio> .... Where do I start? It's for a weblog (Kuro5hin-like) system.
> 
> I'm experimenting with Webware's WebKit <http://webware.sourceforge.net/>
> for a new website for my nascent consulting company.  It seems pretty easy
> to grok, is nicely object-oriented and has several "adapters" - ways of
> connecting between your web server and its AppServer.  My other app-server
> type experience is with Mason, which I love except it uses the other
> P-language (the one that ends in "l", not the one that ends in "P" ;-)

Pascal?  ;-)


From rshivs at nospam.hotmail.com  Wed Mar 27 22:15:06 2002
From: rshivs at nospam.hotmail.com (Shiv Shankar Ramakrishnan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:15:06 -0800
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <DCvo8.1915$d7.607177@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3ca28aba$1@news.microsoft.com>

> > behind now? Or is ActiveState not bothered about Python at all and more
> > bothered about other things like Perl, Komodo etc? Thats their
preorgative
> > of course but I like the PythonWin IDE and now I can only get that with
> > ActivePython since Mark Hammond moved there.
>
> He is no longer there.

Huh! This is news to me. When did this happen? Hmm ... by the looks of it
and the way ActiveState seems to be neglecting things looks like there has
been some falling out between them ... But then I shouldn't be doing such
idle speculation here ...

> > Shouldn't there be some
> > alternative source for getting PythonWin? How about the main Python
> > distribution also doing PythonWin from CVS?
>
> the "alternate source" for PythonWin is Mark's home page
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

Great! Thanks. Of course I knew this website. Its just that I had stopped
visiting it a long ago after Mark moved to ActiveState and his website just
pointed one to ActiveState. Well I guess in some ways it is a change for the
better I guess. Would it be considered too impolite to ask as to what
happened?

Thanks,
Shiv





From theller at python.net  Fri Mar 22 18:07:43 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:07:43 +0100
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages (Was: Re: Binary generation with distutils?
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

A.M. Kuchling wrote in message news:slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org...
> In article <a7d8g8$khnnh$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller wrote:
> > Are you interested in my remarks to the XXX comments *now*?
>
> Of course!
>
> --amk
Ok, here we go.

I've written my comments into a checked out version of PEP262, ran
cvs diff -c8 on it and here is the result (These are only comments,
I do not suggest to update the PEP according to this diff).

Thomas

Index: pep-0262.txt
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/nondist/peps/pep-0262.txt,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -c -8 -r1.1 pep-0262.txt
*** pep-0262.txt 9 Jul 2001 14:26:26 -0000 1.1
--- pep-0262.txt 22 Mar 2002 23:00:00 -0000
***************
*** 21,36 ****
--- 21,50 ----
      should be supported are:

          * Is package X on a system?
          * What version of package X is installed?
          * Where can the new version of package X be found?
            XXX Does this mean "a home page where the user can go and
            find a download link", or "a place where a program can find
            the newest version?"  Perhaps both...
+
+           THE (= Thomas Heller) thinks the first option. IMO a home
+           page for the user is much more useful until we get something
+           like to CPAN. Source distributions are platform and version
+           independent, but binary distros may come in an awful lot of
+           different formats and filenames.
+
+           "a place where a program can find the newest version" could
+           or should IMO implemented in a way where an extended
+           "package information file" would first be downloaded, which
+           would contain URLs for binary and source distributions
+           depending on platform and version and so on.
+
+
          * What files did package X put on my system?
          * What package did the file x/y/z.py come from?
          * Has anyone modified x/y/z.py locally?


  Database Location

      The database lives in a bunch of files under
***************
*** 54,69 ****
--- 68,91 ----

      XXX is the actual filename important?  Let's say the installation
      data for PIL is in the file INSTALLDB/Numeric.  Is this OK?  When
      we want to figure out if Numeric is installed, do we want to open
      a single file, or have to scan them all?  Note that for
      human-interface purposes, we'll often have to scan all the
      packages anyway, for a case-insensitive or keyword search.

+     THE: IMO typically a few dozen packages are installed, so we
+     probably have less than, say, one hundred files in the 'database',
+     which should reside in a single directory. Also it is not very
+     helpful to have the data for PIL in a file named Numeric. The
+     filename should be the package name.  Performance: I would guess
+     that reading the PKG-INFO section of these few dozen files would
+     typically take one or two seconds, so no database is needed.
+

  Database Contents

      Each file in INSTALLDB or its subdirectories describes a single
      package, and has the following contents:

          An initial line listing the sections in this file, separated
          by whitespace.  Currently this will always be 'PKG-INFO
***************
*** 76,126 ****
--- 98,184 ----
          containing the package information for a file, as described in
          PEP 241, "Metadata for Python Software Packages".

          A blank line indicating the end of the PKG-INFO section.

          An entry for each file installed by the package.
          XXX Are .pyc and .pyo files in this list?  What about compiled
          .so files?  AMK thinks "no" and "yes", respectively.
+
+         THE comments: The uninstall 'database' (which is a simple text
+         file) which bdist_wininst installers create, contain entries
+         for *every* file to be removed, this includes .pyc and .pyo
+         files. On the other hand, MD5 digests or CRC checksums are
+         probably not so useful for .pyc/.pyo files.
+

      Each file's entry is a single tab-delimited line that contains the
      following fields:
      XXX should each file entry be all on one line and
      tab-delimited?  More RFC-822 headers?  AMK thinks tab-delimited
      seems sufficent.

+     THE: tab-delimited is fine.
+
          * The file's size

          * XXX do we need to store permissions?  The owner/group?
+         THE: no, not on windows.

          * An MD5 digest of the file, written in hex.  (XXX All 16
            bytes of the digest seems unnecessary; first 8 bytes only,
            maybe?  Is a zlib.crc32() hash sufficient?)
+           THE: If the MD5 digest is calculated, which throw away
+           the first bytes? A quick test shows that the MD5 digest
+           calculation takes about twice as long as zlib.crc32(),
+           so it could be used.

          * The file's full path, as installed on the system.  (XXX
            should it be relative to sys.prefix, or sys.prefix +
            '/lib/python<version>?'  If so, full paths are still needed;
            consider a package that installs a startup script such as
            /etc/init.d/zope)
+           THE: Only full paths should be in the database file.

          * XXX some sort of type indicator, to indicate whether this is
            a Python module, binary module, documentation file, config
            file?  Do we need this?
+           THE: No, we don't need this. There is no mechanism (now) how
+           this could be specified, also I cannot think of a use case
+           where it would be needed.

      A package that uses the Distutils for installation will
      automatically update the database.  Packages that roll their own
      installation

      XXX what's the relationship between this database and the RPM or
      DPKG database?  I'm tempted to make the Python database completely
      optional; a distributor can preserve the interface of the package
      management tool and replace it with their own wrapper on top of
      their own package manager.  (XXX but how would the Distutils know
      that, and not bother to update the Python database?)
+
+     THE: Maybe I don't understand what you are talking about here. I
+     have absolutely no idea how RPM or DPKG is working, so I'm only
+     talking about bdist_wininst or maybe other windows installers
+     here. win32all and wxPython are examples of very popular packages
+     *not* distributed with distutils, but with windows installers
+     (WISE for win32all, InnoSetup for wxPython?).
+
+     1. The main purpose of the database discussed here is to determine
+     if package is installed, and which version - so IMO it should
+     *not* be left optional to update this database, even for platform
+     specific installers like RPM or windows installers.  My idea would
+     be to create the database file at build time, and simply copy it
+     into the database.
+
+     2. The existing python package managers I have seen so far (mainly
+     ciphon and pyppm) each have their own database (both have chosen
+     an XML based format), but they are certainly incompatible.


  Deliverables

      Patches to the Distutils that 1) implement a InstallationDatabase
      class, 2) Update the database when a new package is installed.  3)
      a simple package management tool, features to be added to this
      PEP.  (Or a separate PEP?)






From st-newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Mar  7 09:18:56 2002
From: st-newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:18:56 +0100
Subject: mword2text on win32
Message-ID: <3C8776D0.3040200@thomas-guettler.de>

Does someone know how I can convert
msword to plain text in python on win32?

I tried wvware from gnuwin32.sf.net (with popen3)
but it fails with complex documents.

Since I am on windows I could use COM. Has someone examples, or
other ideas?

thomas



From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Fri Mar  8 00:51:27 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:51:27 +0900
Subject: reporting spam? (was RE: 5 dollar emails)
References: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE6BC@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com> <mailman.1015550415.9856.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_7Yh8.118$_Z4.1115@news.hananet.net>

Gerhard H?ring scribbled with his keyboard:
> Most spam I get recently comes from these providers
> kornet.net (most)
> hananet.net
> thrunet.com
> 

Urk... I'm in Korea and I'm using hananet. =(

Please, block the spam servers. If the ISPs don't do anything about it, 
eventually their customers will. I am working with the ISP because I can't 
send email to my friend in America. Maybe they'll wake up and realize that 
they have to be as serious about this stuff as everyone else.


Jonathan



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Thu Mar  7 23:51:20 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:51:20 -0800
Subject: ANN: Python User Groups page at python.org
References: <2AWh8.478$eT3.149538@news.uswest.net> <3C883D30.1030905@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <a68js8.3vsb5gp.1@kserver.org>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:17:55 GMT, Pete Shinners <shredwheat at attbi.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <3C883D30.1030905 at attbi.com>:

> Kevin Altis wrote:
> > Python User Groups now have their own page on the Python web site:
> > 
> > http://www.python.org/UserGroups.html
> 
> sadly nothing ever in the southern california area. anyone in OC or LA 
> who enjoys this crazy python?

Me. Actually, about 6 months ago or so, someone was going to start up one
(like at UCI) and went so far as to set up a time and place and got a few
responses, but then it fell through somehow.

I don't really have the time or facilities to be an organizer, so I laid
low when it fell apart. But if someone else organizes it, I will come.
(Assuming I can make my schedule work, of course.)

I'm in the Pomona/Chino/Brea area.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar  4 15:49:58 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:49:58 GMT
Subject: Problem with SRE's regular expressions
References: <3C83D5C6.7010303@free.fr>
Message-ID: <W5Rg8.29781$l93.5779533@newsb.telia.net>

Christophe Delord wrote:
> I'm using regular expressions in python in a parser generator. I have
> some troubles with the module named 're'. In fact it uses the 'sre'
> module. When I explicitly use the old 'pre' module it works fine.
> So my problem is when big strings are scanned using non greedy operator
> (for example ".*?") 'sre' seems to be recursivle and python stack limit
> is exceeded.

the SRE engine is trying to tell you that you're using the wrong
tool for the task, and probably should think of a better way to
do the right thing...

> big_string = "<" + "that's a very very big string!"*1000 + ">"
>
> if re.match('<.*?>', big_string):

here's the same thing, without any backtracking:

    if re.match('<[^>]*>', big_string):

under PRE, it's about an order of a magnitude faster than your
version.  and SRE is over twice as fast as PRE on this one...

</F>




From brian at sweetapp.com  Sun Mar 31 16:17:54 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:17:54 -0800
Subject: Replace high-bit characters in file.
In-Reply-To: <M1Kp8.3021$Ow4.4334@news2.bredband.com>
Message-ID: <001701c1d8f9$87c6e5e0$445d4540@Dell2>

Mikke wrote:

> I'm stuck!
> 
> I need a script that replaces national characters in a (dBase)file.
> 
> The original file is encoded in Latin-1 but I need it to be in CP850
> instead.

# This is not tested, of course
file_contents = open('dbasefile', 'rb').read()
file_contents = unicode(file_contents, 'latin-1').encode('cp850')
# file_contents is now a string containing the contents of the 
# file in cp850 format. You can write that string to a file, if you
# want. 
open('dbasefile.out', 'wb').write(file_contents)

Is that what you wanted?




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 14 21:58:50 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 02:58:50 GMT
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work                    Sincerly, F
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna92lat.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Oscar wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I have added 
> 
> def joinsplit = (join(split(lines, '"'), ' '))
>         return joinsplit

This is no valid Python, so you're getting syntax errors.

> to watch.txt in an effort to replace " and / with " " to no avail. Old
> watch.txt works fine, without my new def.

A function to replace " and / with spaces would look like this (Python
1.5 compatible):

def replace_them(s):
    import string
    return string.replace(string.replace(s, '/', ' '), '"', ' ')

> [...]
> 
>         formatted = str(list[0]) + str(list[1]) + fixdate(list[2]) +
> joinsplit.fixnumeric(list[3],10) + joinsplit.fixnumeric(list[4],10)
  ^^^^^^^^^

Apparently, the original joinsplit is a module and not a function.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Sat Mar 16 05:19:15 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:19:15 +0100
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1016232751.9857.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C931C23.B0B2BF75@kfunigraz.ac.at>

Tim Churches wrote:
 
> Note that stats.py also returns the 2-tailed p-value as well (which can
> also easily be obtained from R via RPy).
> 
> Tim C


As a side note (but not related to the above problem): there exists also
some peculiarities with the R-language:

For example:

> data <- c(0.23,1.0023,1.223,1.235,5.6,9.0,23.3456,34.458,34.56,78.9)

> summary(data)

delivers:

   Min. 1st Qu.  Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
  0.230   1.226   7.300  18.960  31.680  78.900


Everything is correct, except the 1st quantile and 3rd quantile.

First, I could not believe it and fired up XLispStat:

(setf data (make-array 10 :initial-contents  '(0.23 1.0023 1.223 1.235
5.6 9.0 23.3456
34.458 34.56 78.9)))

(quantile data 0.25) and (quantile data 0.75) respectively:

delivers: 1.229 and 28.9018


The R-language calculates not only on Windows the values wrong; even on
Unix: the values are the same as on Windows.

Maybe they use some other method for calculating the quantiles.

Personally: I can not cope with the R-language. It is rich of many
build-in functions; but most of the time I am not successful in finding
what I am searching for.

The graphics are good; but I would always prefer Dislin as long as I do
not need any specialized graphics from the field of statistics.

In R one can even read in binary files (you can even swap the binary
order). But plotting a large array is a pain in the neck. In Dislin it
is very fast and one can overlay maps (e.g. coastlines) without any
problems (you get even the x- and y-axis annotation right:
-180E....+180W,...).


S. Gonzi


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 21 01:01:03 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 07:01:03 +0100
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <xRDl8.10641$Hz2.42334@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3bsdkw9wu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <vQOl8.11541$Hz2.47118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3C97FC23.1030702@skippinet.com.au> <OG8m8.14172$Hz2.59030@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <m3adt2wjc0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

>    I may be in an over-design mode but I've seen large modules (posixmodule
> is 150K of fairly dense code) go bad through poor redesign before.

An important observation is that significant parts of it won't be used
on nt (all the Posix functions that NT does not provide). Likewise for
Posix systems (all the Win32 wrappers). So after merely duplicating it,
and removing then-dead code, it won't be 300k.

>    BTW, I'm not volunteering to redesign posixmodule. My original change was
> just to allow the file constructor to take a Unicode string which is to me
> the biggest gain in functionality.

Given recent comments, I'd argue that most users would disagree. The
only complaints about the status quo I've seen are "you can't list the
directory; you'll get question marks". Users wouldn't even worry about
not getting the names, if they wouldn't be calling stat() to find out
file information. So far, nobody has complained that opening a file
with "funny characters" is not possible.

So I'd say os.listdir and os.stat are the functions that most
desperately need full Unicode support.

Regards,
Martin



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 19 22:26:44 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 03:26:44 GMT
Subject: Passing command line arguments when debugging with IDLE
References: <a78peu$ldd$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <a78vhk$isq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:43:33 -0500, "Nigel-Fi" <nospam at nospam.com> wrote:

>A newbe question from someone more familiar with devstudio type
>environments...
>
>I have a python program which takes command line arguments and i'd like to
>debug it with IDLE but I cant see how to specify them when I open the py
>file or run it within IDLE.
>
I'd just make a temporary assignment to sys.argv right after the import sys, e.g.,

    import sys
    sys.argv = ['arg0', '-opt', 2, 'etc.']

and then pretend it was set normally. Comment out when ready to run from command line
or other starting method that passes cmd line parameters.

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From brueckd at tbye.com  Fri Mar  8 14:39:42 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:39:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
In-Reply-To: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203081117520.3971-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Cromwell, Jeremy wrote:

> PEP 276 (Simple Iterator for ints) and PEP 284 (Integer for-loops), among
> others, are written from the perspective that the current integer for-loop
> syntax
>
>     for i in range(10):
>
> is a wart.  Is this true?  That is, where does the Python community stand on
> this issue?

-Wart? Who cares, really, anyway? :) It's not a major source of bugs,
productivity drainage, etc. Seeing range() in the code doesn't force you
to pause and figure out what it means (at least no more so than any of the
proposed alternatives); you learn it the first time and don't really think
about it again. Put another way, if somebody discovers the One Perfect
Range Replacement Idiom and adds it to Python, will it make a difference
in anything important? I don't think so.

Especially in light of Skip's recent plea for more community help, it
seems silly to spend too much time on issues like this when there are
bigger fish to fry. Even if I concede that this *is* a wart, it's really
hard to argue that fixing it is more beneficial than fixing actual bugs,
improving Python's performance, improving the documentation, maturing the
modules in the standard library, developing supporting projects (e.g. CPAN
replacement), teaching others to use Python, etc.

-Dave




From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Tue Mar 26 02:10:19 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:10:19 +0100
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
References: <mailman.1017100121.3081.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7p75t$816$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

[about Pyro]

> it's good, but i'm not sure if that can do what i want:) though i 
> probably asked the wrong question.
> i need a tutorial for a server (not only a simple one, one with 
> client handlers, and info on clients..., like in games)
> cause i want to create a server emulator for an online game, and 
> therefor i need at first a 'server engine' to accept the packets 
> handle them...

I'm not sure why you think Pyro is not right.
The 'server engine' you're talking about is right there, the Pyro Daemon!
To reiterate, you don't have to do any network programming when using Pyro,
could that be why you're confused? Pyro does all the gory client-server-socket-
network-packet-marshalling-threading-reconnect stuff for you.

Irmen



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 17:40:29 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:40:29 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Z36p8.29413$Ou.4432@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying. I
> suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
> differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'
>
Strings are immutable, and therefore cannot be changed once created. So
there's no point in creating copies, since a copy could never be changed
either.

What would be the point of creating copies?

regards
 Steve






From kendall at monkeyfist.com  Mon Mar 18 18:13:26 2002
From: kendall at monkeyfist.com (Kendall Clark)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:13:26 -0600
Subject: Declare list of large size
In-Reply-To: <sn4rjdsdhd.fsf@motorola.com>; from aaron.ginn@motorola.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:44:14PM -0700
References: <sn4rjdsdhd.fsf@motorola.com>
Message-ID: <20020318171326.A29227@ntlug.org>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:44:14PM -0700, Aaron Ginn wrote:

> which will give me a list 100 elements long with all values
> initialized to 0, but I'm assuming there has to be an easier way to do
> this?  Am I correct in this assumption?

>> l = [0 for i in range(100)]

>> print l

<list of 100 elements, each of which is 0 snipped>

>> len(l)
100

List comprehensions are everyone's friend.

Best,
Kendall



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 28 15:30:11 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 12:30:11 -0800
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote in message news:<slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>...
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >Jim Dennis wrote:
> >>         freq = {}
> >>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
> >>                         else:                           freq[word] = 1
 >
> >Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
> 
> IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works 
> correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
> 
> IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.

Python *could* be made like that with the explict dict() constructor
... something like:

freq = dict(default=0)
...
freq[word] += 1


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Thu Mar 28 12:56:02 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:56:02 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com> <slrnaa6a1j.mu3.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <ud6xovaps.fsf@online.no>

"A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org> writes:

> In article <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu at 4ax.com>, 
>    Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> > Absolutely. All of Mark's Win32 stuff are pretty much essential to
> > many Windows users now, I would guess.
> 
> Any volunteers?

I could help out with things, but I don't feel that I can take
responsibility for it. That seems to much for me to handle at the time
being. I would be glad to help out on something though.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Mon Mar 18 17:08:49 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:08:49 -0800
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org> <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com> <u4rjdred0.fsf@python.net> <vDsl8.992$%m2.418@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a74sdh.3vsec89.1@kserver.org>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:05:43 -0500, "David Rushby"
<woodsplitter at rocketmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<vDsl8.992$%m2.418 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>:

> I checked the release22-maint branch of Python out of SF CVS at approx
> 15:00 GMT on March 18.  I took the next to last example in email.tex
> (the program that mails the contents of a directory) and ran it for
> three cases:
> A) the target directory contains no files
> B) the target directory contains exactly one file
> C) the target directory contains more than one file
> 
> Here is the stderr ouput for case A:
[rest snipped]

I would report this as a bug, if you believe it is a bug. (I read your
message, but don't know enough about the underlying email module code to
definitively say whether it is a bug.)

Also, you may want to send a "heads-up" email to Barry Warsaw.

I found, myself, that the types of error tracebacks you were showing
sometimes occur if:

* A message Object is instantiated that has no Content-type or other
headers.
* A message Object is instantiated whose value evaluates to 'false'


Possibly this is what is occurring in your sample tests?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 08:32:56 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:32:56 +0000
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
Message-ID: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com>

I can't believe I'm doing this this best way.

I am debugging a large system written in Python with modules spread
over 4 directories. I'm using PythonWin under Win2K to set-up the
environment and run the code.

Setting up the environment typically involves the following commands:

import sys
sys.path.append("x:\\whereever")
from wibbleModule import wibble
wibs = wibble(args)

wibs.methods(args)

<error...>

At this point, I fix the error.

Now, I haven't figured out a way of continueing past this point
without quiting and starting from scratch because there appears to be
no way to get Python to reload a module. The reload() function doesn't
do it.

I've tried stuff like this:

del wibs
reload(sys.modules['wibbleModule']

but I still seem to have the old version loaded.

I've also tried using PyCrust for this but it suffers from the same
problems. I assume IDLE does too.

How do others go about interactively debugging large Python OO-based
systems?

Thanks for any pointers.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From msx at crs4.it  Fri Mar 15 03:09:59 2002
From: msx at crs4.it (Federico Caboni)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:09:59 +0100
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work            
	       Sincerly, F
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com> <slrna92f39.150k.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <slrna92l23.10i.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrna92leq.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <B8B76AE7.D16%msx@crs4.it>

On 15-03-2002 4:01, in article slrna92leq.6n5.gerhard at lilith.my-fqdn.de,
"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:

[SNIP]

>>> No wonder this doesn't work, as you've apparently haven't made very
>>> much effort to understand what you're doing here.
>>> 
>>> Sorry to be so blunt, but you can't write software just by guessing
>>> about the syntax.
>> 
>> Really? I do some of the time, when I don't remember it and can't be
>> bothered to look in the manual.
> 
> Me too, mostly by trying stuff out at Python prompt, for instance if I
> forgot the semantics of slicing again.
> 

I discovered "eval" by guessing....
I thought something like "It would be cool if existed a statement like
that".
I guessed the name too =).
Well...I agree that this is not the right way to learn Python anyway ;)


> Gerhard

  ____  ____  ____  _  _     ____  _  _  ____
 / ___)| __ \/ ___)/ /| |   / ___)| \| |/ ___) Federico Caboni (msx at crs4.it)
| (___ |    /\___ \\__  | * \___ \|    |\___ \ Software & Network Solutions
 \____)|_|\_\(____/   |_|   (____/|_|\_|(____/ Phone: +39 070 2796 368
  CRS4, Center for Adv. Studies, Research and Development in Sardinia



From gwachob at wachob.com  Sun Mar 10 12:58:22 2002
From: gwachob at wachob.com (Gabriel Wachob)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 09:58:22 -0800
Subject: PyBEEP Project
References: <4e72770c.0203092131.457ad7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4e72770c.0203100958.31393b4c@posting.google.com>

It was pointed out to me that not everyone may know what BEEP is. BEEP
is an IETF spec (RFC 3080/3081):

"
BEEP, the Application Protocol Framework, ... offers advanced features
such as:

* a standard application layer that supports dynamic, pluggable
application "profiles" (protocols)
* peer-to-peer, client-server, or server-to-server capabilities 
* multiple channels over a single authenticated session 
* support for arbitrary MIME payloads, including XML 
"

and from RFC 3080:

a generic application protocol kernel for
connection-oriented, asynchronous interactions called the BEEP
(Blocks Extensible Exchange Protocol) core.  BEEP permits
simultaneous and independent exchanges within the context of a single
application user-identity, supporting both textual and binary
messages.

HTH

   -Gabe


gwachob at wachob.com (Gabriel Wachob) wrote in message news:<4e72770c.0203092131.457ad7 at posting.google.com>...
> Just a reminder (or a notice!) that the PyBEEP project (open source
> implementation of BEEP in Python) is marching forward and would like
> any help anybody would like to give.
> 
> The project is hosted at sourceforge.
> 
> http://pybeep.sf.net
> 
>      -Gabe


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar 18 17:04:57 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:04:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016485469.21275.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9cp49.lm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

James_Althoff at i2.com <James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote:
>
>[huaiyu]
>|What I meant was that if you define items(A) to return an iterator,
>|and write a program using 'for i,x in items(A)', it will work for
>|any sequence A.  Users who supply A do not need to do anything.
>
>They have to do *something*.  They have to make sure that A supports
>whatever protocol is assumed in the implementation of the "items" function.
>That is, A *has* to be a "sequence" or whatever is assumed by items().

Well, if you assume that the domain of items(*) is the same as that of
iter(*) and that they use exactly the same protocol, then it's already
covered.

So I guess it comes down to the question of whether items() and iter() are
semantically connected in practice.  If in most cases they have the default
semantical connection, then items(A) is more convenient to A.items().  If
not, then A.items() is better as it is more flexible.

On second thought, even in the latter case, I don't see any negative point
in providing items(A) that's hooked on A.__items__.  You only need to
implement A.__items__ if the semantics is different from that derived from
iter(A).

Huaiyu


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 04:52:35 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:52:35 -0000
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCDD1@intrepid>

> From:	Tim Churches [SMTP:tchur at optushome.com.au]
> 
> So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
> Herald - see
> http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html
 
Not with those of us who use the Win32all package which he has so generously
donated to the community, no. <wink>

I-know-you-were-joking-but-a-<wink>-wouldn't-have-been-out-of-place-ly y'rs,
Simon Brunning
sbrunning at fuckmicrosoft.com




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From amuys at shortech.com.au  Mon Mar  4 23:23:45 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 20:23:45 -0800
Subject: functional programming with map()
References: <918bc22f.0202241902.2160b75a@posting.google.com> <a5cb54$27c2$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <eppstein-69765A.19343424022002@news.service.uci.edu> <7xd6yu42j6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <a5cfpe$67voi$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <7xbseeayxk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7934d084.0202251545.5fb4bbf3@posting.google.com> <a5v14m$8d9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203042023.439d6d13@posting.google.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote in message news:<a5v14m$8d9$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>...
> "Andrae Muys" <amuys at shortech.com.au> wrote in message
> news:7934d084.0202251545.5fb4bbf3 at posting.google.com...
> > Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in message
>  news:<7xbseeayxk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> > > "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > "Paul Rubin"
> > > > > Both of those build up a new list of the results, instead of
> > > > > discarding the values.  If the f function takes an integer and
> > > > > computes a 20-megabyte structure, you've got a problem.
> > > >
> > > > If you know it's coming, throw it away first:
> > > >
> > > > [x.f() and None for x in items]
> > >
> > > OK, but that buidls a list of None as long as the item list.  Not
> > > so bad, since it gets reclaimed right away, but still unsatisfying.
> > >
> > > > filter(None,[x.f() and None for x in items])
> > > >
> > > > returns an empty list vs 0 for the reduce.
> > >
> > > Again there's this intermediate list that's as long as the original
>  list.
> > >
> > > Do you see a way around that?
> > >
> >
> > filter(lambda x:x.f() and 0, items) ?
> >
> > It's identical to the the reduce method posted previously, but avoids
> > the tuple indexing required by reduce's use of a binary operator vs.
> > filter's unary.
> >
> > Of course my first preference would be the list comprehension,
> > discarding the redundant list, and if that was prohibitively expensive
> > falling back to the original imperative style.
> >
> 
> Are you sure that you don't prefer the PEP 279 alternatives:
> xmap(), xfilter(), xzip() or generator comprehensions?
> 
>    [ yield f(x) for x in items ]
> 
>                 or
> 
>    xmap( f, items )
> 

Well while I'm drooling with anticipation with the approach of lazy
builtin's and generator comprehensions, they aren't much help here
where the problem was to "call f on x for x in items", compared to
what you suggest which is "call f with x for x in items".

Andrae


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Sat Mar  2 14:25:17 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:25:17 GMT
Subject: ANN: experimental patch to allow importing from file-like objects
References: <3c7fcbe6.7419921@news.t-online.de> <Xns91C54C828E2A8gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.213>
Message-ID: <3c81245c.47694421@news.t-online.de>

On 02 Mar 2002 12:30:42 GMT, Gordon McMillan <gmcm at hypernet.com>
wrote:

>Most people doing something like this don't use imp.load_module.
>
>First you need a code object for the module. If it's source:
>
>  co = compile(open(srcfile, 'r').read()+'\n', srcfile, 'exec')
>
>If it's already compiled (and still fresh etc.)
>
>  stuff = open(bytecodefile, 'rb').read()
>  co = marshal.loads(stuff[8:])
>
>Then you need a module object
>
>  mod = imp.new_module(nm)
>
>(You need to set up mod.__file__, mod.__name__ etc. here).
>And finally
>
>  sys.modules[fqname] = mod
>  exec co in mod.__dict__
>

Hey, thats' cool! I didn't know that. 

I must say, though, that the documentation on this in the Python
reference manual is *quite* rudimentary. Well, at the very least I
learned something about python internals and PyTokenizer ;)

But I still feel that the python core should be more "pythonesque".

There are a gazillion (ok, more like 40) places in ./Include, that use
a "FILE *" as argument. As this is the external interface of python, I
think it would be better if it expected PyFile-like objects instead.
For example, look at marshal.dump(). You cannot pass a file-like
object if you wanted to (because, alas, the implementation expects
FILE*). You have to use dumps() and write that. 

Is this just a decision dictated by "the need for speed", or is there
any motivation behind it? 

On a related note, (I've asked this before to no avail) - how do I
successfully subclass files & open them? 

The problem is - where to I subclass a file returned from open()?
open() always returns the builtin file class. Attempting to do this

----------- (snip here) -------------

raw_file = open(...)
my_file = my_file_class()
raw_file.read = my_file.read

----------- (snip here) -------------

I'll get an error that read is a read-only method.






From neal at metaslash.com  Wed Mar 27 07:39:13 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:39:13 -0500
Subject: overwrite bytes in file
References: <3ca1c344.16256546@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <3CA1BD71.FFF2D9AA@metaslash.com>

Marcus Stojek wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> how can I overwrite certain bytes in a file (Win NT) and
> keep the rest unchanged.
> All open options are truncating the file.

The mode should be 'r+'.  On windows it would probably be better
to use 'rb+'.

>>> f = open('nn')
>>> print f.read()
test

>>> f = open('nn', 'r+')
>>> f.seek(2)
>>> f.write('a')
>>> f.close()
>>> f = open('nn')
>>> print f.read()
teat

Neal


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 14:47:24 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:24 -0800
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <a7diqu$7am$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9A680A.F00216D2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B8A4C.F7FB97FD@ccvcorp.com>


Marc wrote:

>
> So here is my basic question: should I be able to
> inherit class from another file.

Yes, you can do this.  I do it all the time.  And the way that you're doing it is
indeed correct -- just refer to the base class by its properly qualified name.

I have no idea why you're having a problem, but then, I missed your initial post.
Are you getting an exception?  If so, you might try posting the stack trace...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mike at dlogue.net  Fri Mar 22 07:29:59 2002
From: mike at dlogue.net (Michel Pelletier)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:29:59 +0100
Subject: __* name mangling documentation
Message-ID: <200203221231.g2MCVvd73940@frosch.logivision.net>

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/id-classes.html

sort of left me hanging on why __ name mangling exists and why it would be 
used.  I'm curious because I'm looking at some code right now that uses it in 
a somewhat tricky way and I want to know why.  If someone would be so kind to 
enlighten me on the reasons for __ name mangling, I will submit a 
documentation patch for the above page that explains it.

Thanks!

-Michel




From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 11 06:44:12 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:44:12 GMT
Subject: Newbie question
References: <a6dv55$phu$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <usn772umy.fsf@python.net>

"Nick" <nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> How do you get the ordinal value (ASCII) of a character? For example, to
> make a ROT13 program.

with 2.2:

>>> 'yvxr jr arrq gb obgure jvgu beq()'.encode('rot-13')

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  if-you-need-your-own-xxx.py-you-know-where-to-shove-it<wink>-ly 
  y'rs - tim
              -- Tim Peters dishes out versioning advice on python-dev


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sun Mar 17 19:47:45 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 01:47:45 +0100
Subject: Old File Purge Suggestions?
References: <1W9l8.176946$Dl4.19853391@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91D512648DF00cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Didjit <Didjit at myapebutt.com> wrote in
news:1W9l8.176946$Dl4.19853391 at typhoon.tampabay.rr.com: 
> I'm using sys.stdin.readlines(): getting the date passed in from 
> from "ls -l" (linux). Then compare dates using the mxDateTime 

i think os.stat gives you the same information as "ls -l" and you 
don't have to parse strings (use os.listdir to get the names and then 
stat on them)

> module after
> shoving dates into a format I can use. Am I on the right track or 
> is there a better way to accomplish what I need. Functions or other
> modulesI should be using. 
> 
> TIA
> 
> Chris

dito ;-)

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From infinitystwin.SPAM at IS.BAD.yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 01:47:51 2002
From: infinitystwin.SPAM at IS.BAD.yahoo.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:47:51 -0600
Subject: Creating a module that uses itself
References: <2yfl8.113994$nl1.19520473@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a7426e01nek@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Asheesh Laroia" <pan-news at asheeshenterprises.com> wrote in message
news:2yfl8.113994$nl1.19520473 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> I'm writing a PageMaker-to-specialized-HTML module (henceforth
> "pm2html").  In the module, I define the classes Article, Headline, and
> Photo, among others.
>
> In the Article class, I want to have a Headline object.  Is this
> possible?  Right now, ActivePython's PythonWin spits a syntax error at me
> because the Headline class is not defined.

You should post your code and the actual error traceback. What you're
describing should work -- at least they way that you've described it.
Could there be a typo in your code?

This works for me:

class Article:
    def __init__(self):
        self.headline = Headline()

class Headline:
    pass

class Photo:
    pass

a = Article()



greg




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 17:33:44 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:33:44 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF73D523E4.FE81C410-ON88256B6F.007AD55B@i2.com>

[Bjorn Pettersen]
> with this syntax you have different semantics for:
>
>    for start <= i < end:
>
> And
>
>    if start <= i < end:

[David Eppstein]
> Different in what sense?
>
> "for something" loops over all values of the variable that make
> "something"  true.  Which part of "something" is the variable is
determined
> by its location in the overall expression.
>
> That is true with the current "for x in y" syntax as well as
> the suggested "for start <= i < end" syntax.
> Well, except that by "all values" substitute "all integer values"
> since it doesn't make sense to loop over all floats.

But that kind of definition isn't comprehensive enough because, for
example, it says nothing about the order of the variables as processed by
the for-loop.  If you define the for-loop in terms of an iterable object
(matching the implementation) the order is covered.  And if you stick with
an iterator-base view, then the two constructs above start to look
different since that latter is clearly based on relational operators not
iterators.

Jim




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 29 23:17:28 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 04:17:28 GMT
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
References: <mailman.1017432645.5389.python-list@python.org> <3CA4D52E.C2067419@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <a83e8o$q3t$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:57:18 -0500, Jeff Layton <laytonjb at bellsouth.net> wrote:
[...]
>> a.append(Bob('localhost'))
>
>This works! If I create a list a that has five elements where
>are just instances of Bob, can I "call" a method for a specific
>element of the list? I take I can (Jeff sneaks off to experiment
>while his wife is napping).
>
Sure.

 >>> class Bob:
 ...     def __init__(self,last_name):
 ...         self.last_name = last_name
 ...     def a_method(self):
 ...         return 'The name is ' + self.last_name
 ...
 >>> a = []
 >>> for name in ['Smith', 'Jones', 'Layton', 'the Fourth', 'Last']:
 ...     a.append(Bob(name))
 ...
 >>> a[1].a_method()
 'The name is Jones'
 >>> for x in a:
 ...     print x.a_method()
 ...
 The name is Smith
 The name is Jones
 The name is Layton
 The name is the Fourth
 The name is Last
 >>> a[2] = Bob('Jeff Layton')
 >>> for x in a[2:4]: print x.a_method()
 ...
 The name is Jeff Layton
 The name is the Fourth
 >>>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From borcis at geneva-link.ch  Sat Mar 30 15:41:19 2002
From: borcis at geneva-link.ch (Boris Qaré)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:41:19 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com> <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA622EF.B7C84035@geneva-link.ch>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> 

> > expect for those return values, such as the ability to use as
> > indices into a sequence, then I'm still very -1.
> 
> Their type changes, and their repr. Apart from that, nothing changes.

How's that ? What's the point of making bool a type if we
can't subclass methods for __and__, __or__, __or_not__,
etc ? (we could still save the shortcut semantics by having
the other parameter appear as a generator, e.g., one should
call other.next() to get at the value)

Regards, Boris
--
Python >>> filter(lambda W : W not in "ILLITERATE","BULLSHIT")


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  2 01:14:09 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:14:09 -0500
Subject: pickle, cPickle, zlib, and the future
In-Reply-To: <79b2b0bb.0203011329.79469c5b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIELNOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Scott Gilbert]
> ...
> So can I rely on the first character 'x' being reserved for zlib, and
> cPickle/pickle strings never starting with 'x'?

I sure wouldn't.

> ...
> (BTW: In cases somebody asks why I don't just prefix my dump strings
> saying where they came from: The dumps can be rather large (maybe 10's
> of megabytes), and I really don't want to have to create a multiple
> megabyte substring from the original.)

This part I didn't follow.  Surely you're writing your dumps to a file? 

f.write('pick') - or - f.write('zlib')
f.write(the_dump_string)

when writing then

dumpkind = f.read(4)
if dumpkind == 'pick':
    # read next pickle from f
elif dumpkind == 'zlib':
    # let zlib chew on the next part
else:
    # etc

when reading.  A parallel file of kind-codes also comes to mind.  Etc.



From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Mar 20 10:41:59 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:41:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python and Daemons
References: <02022215115601.01886@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1014416559.28231.python-list@python.org> <8b3354da.0202270849.6b994141@posting.google.com> <87wuwy26wf.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9hbes.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.
Dnia 27 Feb 2002 12:04:16 -0500, ruud de rooij napisa?(a):
>http://www.erlenstar.demon.co.uk/unix/faq_2.html#SEC16
>3. fork() again so the parent, (the session group leader), can
>   exit. This means that we, as a non-session group leader, can never
>   regain a controlling terminal.
It's there for the sake of portability (to IIRC SVR4).

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://hacker.pl/gminick/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) klub.chip.pl ]


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 29 15:47:30 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:47:30 -0600
Subject: [ANN] PYNOSPAM 0.1 (and some Embedded-Python-Questions)
In-Reply-To: <3ca4b9e8.10558859@news.t-online.de>
References: <3ca4b9e8.10558859@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <15524.53986.616113.336433@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Gerson> Can a python script change the import path at runtime?

Yup, just append directories to sys.path.  

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 12 17:26:56 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:26:56 -0800
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
In-Reply-To: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com>
References: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020312142656.7bcdc51f.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 12 Mar 2002 13:52:01 -0800
googlePoster wrote:

> if I want to know if a variable exists before
> testing it, what do I do?

How about 

try:
   colors_name
except NameError:
   print "it doesn't exist"
else:
   print "it exists"

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz  Wed Mar 20 21:02:58 2002
From: m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz (Mark Hadfield)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:02:58 +1200
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7bf0t$4uc$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

"Jill Obsidian" <obsidian_genius at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882 at posting.google.com...

> How can I put a check in my script which will allow me to determine
> whether I'm running on Windows or Linux at execution time?

>>> import sys
>>> sys.platform
'win32'
>>> import os
>>> os.name
'nt'

--
Mark Hadfield
m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz                   Ka puwaha et tai nei
http://katipo.niwa.co.nz/~hadfield      Hoea tatou
National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA)





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 24 04:10:48 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 10:10:48 +0100
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ofhes547.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Clark C . Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> writes:

> Hello.  I'm trying to figure out how much memory overhead
> is used with using strings, tuples, lists, and maps.
> In particular, say I have a nested structure like...

To find out such things, I recommend to study the source code of
Python, in particular the header files. To see such a computation,
please read

http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&selm=j43d3m93iu.fsf%40informatik.hu-berlin.de

> etc.  Is there some rule of thumb that I can use to estimate,
> for example, take the character data you have and multiply by
> a factor of 4 to find the in-memory footprint of tuples, and
> each map is 1K plus 64 bytes per entry..

For a rule-of-thumb, you should be aware of the per-object overhead,
and the pointer size on your system. The per-object overhead consists
of three pieces (assuming a 32-bit system):

- the Python per-object overhead: 8 bytes for fixed size objects
  (e.g. integers), and 12 bytes for variable-sized objects (strings,
  tuples)

- the garbage collector overhead: 8 bytes for containers
  (e.g. tuples), nothing for non-containers (strings)

- the malloc overhead: varies widely by platform, but it is 8 bytes in
  most cases. In addition, malloc will usually round up the object
  size to a multiple of 8.

In addition, you have the per-content overhead, which varies with the
type of object:

- 4 bytes for an integer
- 1 byte per character in a string, plus one for the terminating 0
- 4 bytes per element in a list or tuple (notice that lists allocate
  space for more elements in advance)

Dictionaries are more difficult to count; their size also varies with
the Python version. The dictionary object itself is one memory block,
including gc and object overhead (not counting the malloc overhead),
the dictionary takes 144 bytes (in Python 2.2). The array of entries
is another memory block, which takes 12 bytes per entry.

Notice that dictionaries overallocate entries, so you'll always need
space for more entries than you have in the dictionary. Also, "small
dictionaries" (less than 9 entries) don't need any extra space, since
they store their entries in the 144 bytes.

Regards,
Martin


From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sat Mar  9 17:33:32 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:33:32 -0500
Subject: Tkinter + Button widget
Message-ID: <3c8a91ed$1_2@nopics.sjc>

when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?

    def HideNewClient(self, frame):
        frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
        return

        pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                               text="Search",
                               relief=GROOVE,
                               font=("Tahoma", 10),
                               width=16,
                               command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))

any help would greatly be appreciated.

Adonis




From nospam at [127.0.0.1]  Sat Mar 16 11:25:51 2002
From: nospam at [127.0.0.1] (Chris)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:25:51 +0000
Subject: This may seem a slightly strange problem ...
References: <jSSm1aIaVlk8Ewdu@[127.0.0.1]>
 <e81be8b2.0203152304.396e7ef7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3QXDl$IPI3k8EwfV@[127.0.0.1]>

In article <e81be8b2.0203152304.396e7ef7 at posting.google.com>, Dean 
Goodmanson <ponderor at lycos.com> writes
>> But, aside from that, any advice on thinking up programs to write?
>
>Try Useless Python: http://www.lowerstandard.com/python
>for a community of similar folks..
>
>..and the Python Challange: 
>http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/pythonchallenge.html
>for inspiration.

Thanks - I'll try now, when I connect to send this.
-- 
Chris


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Mar 11 18:02:34 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 15:02:34 -0800
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com> <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au> <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015882525.3222.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6jd2a$p9d$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1015882525.3222.python-list at python.org>,
Kendall Clark  <kendall at monkeyfist.com> wrote:
>
>I've been daydreaming for about a year of a Python implementation
>written in Haskell, which would obviously make writing Python
>extensions in Haskell easier (and more elegant, IMO, than writing them
>in C or Java).
>
>However, John Paul Skaller did something similar with Ocaml, which he
>called Vyper, and that went over in the Py world like a leaden balloon
>-- actually it went over about as poorly as Stackless Python did;
>which does cause me to wonder what it is about Python culture, if
>anything, that's resistant to unusual alternative implementations?. A
>Python implementation in Haskell is probably a fool's task. Though
>given the various Haskell compilers, including some pretty impressive
>parallelizing stuff, it is an interesting idea.

The main problem with Vyper was that it wasn't finished, and Skaller
mysteriously vanished.  Stackless has in fact been moderately popular,
given the problems inherent in requiring a special patched version of
Python and lagging a version or two behind.  I'm hopeful that the latest
lighter-weight version of Stackless will win new converts -- but I won't
be one of them because I'm lazy.  ;-)
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From ljohnson at resgen.com  Thu Mar  7 11:41:47 2002
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:41:47 -0600
Subject: SWIG and abstract base class
References: <a27c5cd4.0203070801.243cd087@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u8f5lf6r6alicb@corp.supernews.com>

> I want to use SWIG to create a Python module for
> a C++ class hierarchy using abstract base classes:
>
> class Base // Abstract base class
> {
> public:
>   // many common methods
>   ..
> };
>
> In the created C++ code, I get error messages like
>
> "cannot instantiate abstract class due to following members:"
>
> Is there any possibility to tell SWIG that
> Base should be treated as abstract class?

Are you declaring a (public) constructor for the "Base" class in your SWIG
interface file? Or maybe passing the "-make_default" flag to SWIG, to tell
it to create default constructors for classes that don't already declare
one? It sounds like there's a function declared *somewhere* in your SWIG
interface that leads SWIG to believe it can directly create instances of the
"Base" class.




From mwh at python.net  Sat Mar  9 11:38:01 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:38:01 GMT
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <B8AD9351.4A8C%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a6ascr$19l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1015611735.7436.python-list@python.org> <3c8937e0$1_10@news.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <u4rjp4rsn.fsf@python.net>

"Brad Clements" <bkc at Murkworks.com> writes:

> Not to segue myself but.. I have patch (505846) sitting in the list since
> January 19th.

That's not so long, in context.  Unfortunately.

> After a flurry of give and take activities (i.e. submitting better versions
> of the patch), nothing has happened since January 28th.
> 
> I have other patches that depend on this one first (For Windows CE and
> NetWare) that I have not submitted.

If you're not submitting them because your first patch hasn't gone in,
that doesn't sound like a particularly good reason to me.

> I've tried to be good and just wait.. But how long should I expect
> to wait?

Well, if it hasn't been looked at before 2.3 alpha time, I'd start
making a fuss.  It's not really going to make much difference before
then, is it?

> I've begged a few times for a response.. Either a rejection or a "be
> patient" would be nice, but haven't received either.

"be patient"

Does that help?  I think one of the PythonLabs crew probably has to
look at this patch before it can go in, and they're even busier than
the rest of us.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Hmmm... its Sunday afternoon: I could do my work, or I could do a
  Fourier analysis of my computer's fan noise.
       -- Amit Muthu, ucam.chat (from Owen Dunn's summary of the year)


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 17:03:57 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:03:57 +0000
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9fded.t9.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:33:48 GMT, Ahmed Moustafa <amoustafa at pobox.com> wrote:
>1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?

Python is easier to write programs in than Java, but they might run 
slower.

>2. Will Python dominate?

No programming language will; they all have strengths and 
weaknesses.

>3. Who does support Python?

I'm happy to, if you want to pay me my usual consulting rates.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Sat Mar  9 21:19:25 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:19:25 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news> <3C8AA5E4.982FC689@mega-nerd.com> <3c8aae24.156616153@news> <3C8AB6ED.D7869109@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <3c8ac1bc.161633120@news>

OK,  that's pretty much what I had in mind too.
Thanks for your help.

Bruce

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:29:18 GMT, Erik de Castro Lopo
<nospam at mega-nerd.com> wrote:


>
>	erikd at coltrane > python
>	Python 2.1.2 (#1, Jan 18 2002, 18:05:45) 
>	[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
>	Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>	>>> x = 56.78923
>	>>> x_as_string = "%.2f" % x
>	>>> print x_as_string
>	56.79
>
>Just what you want. Remember however that if you want to operate on the
>number using standard arithmetic you need to work on x rather than 
>x_as_string.
>
>Erik
>-- 
>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>"The whole principle is wrong; it's like demanding that grown men live on 
>skim milk because the baby can't eat steak."
>- author Robert A. Heinlein on censorship.



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 19:39:43 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:39:43 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <8gv3au47846mgol398j4oc5t0ufoi274b4@4ax.com> <slrnaa4o82.3ib.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnaa4pif.3ib.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:17:11 +0000, phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:05:58 GMT, Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>And then, when you begin to flesh out your code, you would have to 
>>>get rid of the extraneous passes you didn't want to add (assuming 
>>>you are like me) in the first place. So the with-pass version 
>>>requires more effort, and is more verbose, for no good reason.
>>
>>The reasons are related to the implementation and not the design
>>of Python, I believe.
>
>Oh?
>
>Can it really be hard to modify python so that pass is optional?
>
>The relvant file is grammar, line 68 of which reads:
>
>   suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt+ DEDENT
>
>I wonder if I could change this to something like:
>
>   suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt+ DEDENT | NEWLINE
>
>(It's current;ly compiling; i will get back on this)

I've just tried:

suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt+ DEDENT | NEWLINE 
suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE INDENT stmt* DEDENT          
suite: simple_stmt | NEWLINE [INDENT stmt+ DEDENT]      

None of which work. Mind you, I don't know the language of the 
python parser-generator, having never seen it before, and so I am 
just guessing things that looks like they might work. No doubt 
someone more familiar with it could do better.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From obsidian_genius at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 20:33:44 2002
From: obsidian_genius at yahoo.com (Jill Obsidian)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 17:33:44 -0800
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
Message-ID: <cc779aae.0203201733.3717f882@posting.google.com>

I have need to write some Python scripts that run on Windows as well
as Linux/Unix.

In some instances I will be making os.system() calls to execute
applications installed locally on the machine.

How can I put a check in my script which will allow me to determine
whether I'm running on Windows or Linux at execution time?

Thanks,
Jill


From python at rcn.com  Thu Mar 21 02:07:56 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:07:56 -0500
Subject: [ANN] PEP 279 -- Updated to version 1.8
Message-ID: <mailman.1016835843.1742.clpa-moderators@python.org>

PEP 279 has been reposted with the following changes:

-- Fixed indentation error in the logger() function.
-- Changed variable names in indexed() to start and stop.
-- Generator parameter passing proposal moved to a separate PEP (not yet
posted)
-- Added comments and voting results from the community.
-- Revised the author response to comments

Note, this PEP has been submitted to GvR for pronouncement.


Raymond Hettinger





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar  6 16:21:31 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:21:31 -0800
Subject: Dictionaries in Lists
References: <ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3C86885B.A8C36C86@alcyone.com>

Avi Homes wrote:

> Am I approaching the idea the wrong way? i
> would like to keep the data organized as dictionaries.. 

No, there's nothing wrong with the approach that you describe, provided
that it's appropriate to the problem you want to solve.

> ... the code looked
> something like
> 
> Info{'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah}
> Listing=[]
> Listing.append(Info)

This code contains at least one type; there's a missing assignment on
the first line.  This illustrates the essential nature of asking for
programming help; you have to be able to provide the _exact_ code that
you tried to use and the _exact_ error that you got, or your would-be
benefactors will not be able to help you.  I can't tell whether that
missing assignment is in fact your problem or is just a typo that you
made while posting.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From python at rcn.com  Sat Mar  2 03:06:06 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:06:06 -0500
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1014938330.6533.python-list@python.org> <a5orjv$7j0$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5psh2$ga8$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <eppstein-EBDEA3.22522001032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <a5q26i$2j3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-EBDEA3.22522001032002 at news.service.uci.edu...
> In article <a5psh2$ga8$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>,
>  "Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>
> > There is a pair of ideas that are intuitive, clean, and routinely
useful:
> >    for i in indici(seqn)
> >    for i, item in indexed(seqn)
>
> Isn't this in PEP 212?
> Maybe it should be undeferred?
> --
> David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
> eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/

PEP 212 pre-dates generators and iterators.  Back then, a list method
seemed more attractive because there weren't that many things that
could be iterated over.  Hence, the argument for a built-in function
was weaker.  Since there were no generators, the idea of a lazily
produced sequence wasn't in mind.  Hence, the memory and time
cost of building a separate items type list made the whole idea
seem less  attractive.  Further, generatorless version of the idea
was weak because its equivalent could be directly and simply
coded:  for i, item in zip(xrange(sys.maxint),seqn).

So maybe this is PEP 212 re-incarnated in generator form and
perhaps now the arguments for are much more compelling and
the arguments against no longer matter.

It doesn't matter to me whether we call it PEP 212, PEP 276, or
PEP 279.  Let's all just vote +1 and beg Guido to put it in ver 2.3.


Raymond Hettinger


P.S.  If 212 can get revised in generator form, then YES, let's
undefer it.




From cfelling at iae.nl  Fri Mar  1 23:49:28 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 05:49:28 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015025883.4457.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5plko$f7n$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

Jim, I think I finally solved the riddle.

>From your first post on this subject I had this voice in the back of
my head telling me: think objects.  The post I'm responding to now
reinforced that voice, so I finally gave in:)

[[ I've always found explainig things in writing difficult, I much
rather talk to a participating audience.  When I write, so many side
tracks pop up that my point easily gets blurred. I do my best to
constrain myself, though the posting doesn't show this, and I do think
I've a point to make here, so bear with me ]]


To me the world of objects in programs stops at the level of integers.
That used to be the case for python1.5.2 too:

    >>> dir(1)
    []
    >>> (1).__add__(2)
    Traceback (innermost last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute '__add__'

I know that under the hood integers can be objects too, but to me that
isn't fundamental.  I see it more as an implementation decission.

In 2.2 we happily see the type/class split healed.  And one of the
consequences of that is that we now *see* that integers have methods,
we can even call them:

    >>> (1).__add__(2)
    3

To you, comming from smalltalk, that's just how it's supposed to be,
but to me it looks a little awkward.  Probably because to me integers
are a mathematical abstraction, and I don't see how it could know how
to add.  Addition is something that's not inherent to integers but a
layer that's put on top of integers.  I guess this just goes to show
my ignorance on mathematical issues:(

And now you're stretching this object oriented view of integers even
further.  You ask an integer to iterate or, if you like, to count.


The funny thing however is that I don't have this reservation with
strings:) Strings to me have always been a programmers construct,
there are no character strings in the real world, but they sure come
in handy in a program.  When I made the switch to OO I saw that it was
practical and sound to put the actions and the data together.  So the
same for strings.  I ask a string whether it has uppercase chars, I
ask it to split itself, to count itself (len).  I'm even prepared to
ask it to translate itself. No problem.  I just never made that step
for numbers.

And I'm not alone in that.  I remember from the 80's that there were
heated discussions whether to go `all the way' and define integers to
be objects or stop at the level of some primitive types when defining
the object hierarchy.  There were implementation issues but also
filosofical and usability considerations.  Some language designers
choose to hide the object nature of integers from the programmers and
provided a bunch of syntactic sugar solely to make number manipulation
look more like ordinary math.


To conclude, you propose to go `all the way' with treating integers as
objects, and some of use haven't been exposed to such a thing long
enough to either be blind for its pecularity or to finally appreciate
its soundness.

I think given enough time and exposure I can get to appreciate it,
I don't know for the public in general.  And though we hardly hear
off it these days, Guido is aiming at `programming for everybody'.


...
> This has been suggested and is fine for one-dimensional,
> indexed-collections that are written in Python and obey the standard
> protocol for sequences -- specifically that they implement __len__.  But
> how is such a function going to work for a two-dimensional Java table
> (accessed via Jython)?  PEP 276 is more general.  And doesn't preclude such

Ah, I remember you making this point before.  I'm not familiar with Java
(I shun the C-family like the plague:) so I've to take your word for that.
When true (and I don't mean to imply I doubt your word on it) then it's
a valid argument in favour, I guess.


>> But I do think that dismissing our point as a matter of
>> preference misses our point.

> The PEP says this:

>     - Some feel that iterating over the sequence "0, 1, 2, ..., n-1"
>       for an integer n is not intuitive.  "for i in 5:" is considered
>       (by some) to be "non-obvious", for example.

> How does that miss your point?  What should it say?

You could mention that some view the `for x in y' construct to imply
that y is some kind of sequence and have problems seeing a number
turned into a sequence just because a sequence is expected there.
That's why we think it non-obvious and not intuitive.

[From the PEP]
      Response: This seems to be largely a matter of preference.
      Some like the proposed idiom and see it as simple and
      elegant.  Some are neutral on this issue.  Others, as noted,
      dislike it.
 
But it's what came after it, the `preference' thing that made me react
in the first place.  I don't perceive it being a mere prefence, but as
a fundamental different view of what integers are and what the for
construct is about.  And being over-sensitive, you ditching the
opposition as simply being a matter of taste and preference hurted.


Having rethought the whole thing, I'm not sure what my final verdict
is.  Integers are objects, and in concordance to objects in general,
know to do `integer' things.  They know how to add, multiply, divide
and ...  count.  The integer 10 knows how to count from 0 to 10.  Like
a `dict' knows to iterate over its keys.  And that's precisely what is
requested in the `for' construct.

On the other hand, people are not used to think of integers being
capable of doing their own adding and counting.  And when this was
prominently visible in a language it could alienated them from it.

I'm actually interested in studies from smalltalk usage telling
how easy or problematic it was for its users to come to terms
with sending messages to integers to create a loop.  Maybe it's
a non-problem in general, only felt by us programmers raised
prior to the OO flood.



Just in case I switch position:) let my propose an enhancement to your
proposal.  Why not be able to count down?  You specify that the
integer to iterate over should be possitive, why not allow for
negative values and do the sensible thing, like:

   >>> [i for i in -3]
   [-1, -2, -3]
   >>> s = "spam"
   >>> "".join([s[i] for i in -s.len()])
   'maps'

I feel this would enhance the usability of the idiom as it would cover
two frequent usages of iterating over a sequence: up and down.  And
especially for the down variant, the proper `range' incantation is bud
ugly.

   range(-1, s.len() - 1, -1)

yack.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 13:07:12 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 10:07:12 -0800
Subject: how to check how many bytes are available to read() ?
References: <2b57f654.0203142026.68ec3fc7@posting.google.com> <slrna92v0d.8rs.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <2b57f654.0203151007.446f600a@posting.google.com>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in message news:<slrna92v0d.8rs.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>...
> In article <2b57f654.0203142026.68ec3fc7 at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:
> 
> > I have a file object f.  I want to know if there are any bytes
> > to read from it.
> Call select.select([f],[],[])

Yes, I was doing it backwards!  The manual is confusing in this
respect.  Thanks for the help!  Works perfectly now just as I wanted
it to.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar 28 12:57:02 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:57:02 -0500
Subject: vwait in Python?
References: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis> <mailman.1017331196.5311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cQIo8.3511$Ou.3340@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Ken Guest" <kwg at renre-europe.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017331196.5311.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 11:37, Ken Guest wrote:
> > Anybody know if there's an equivalent to TCL's vwait keyword in Python?
>
> So is there no way, short of a 2 line while statement, to have code
> hang around until the value of some variable has been changed?
>
> I have tried using variations of the simple while statement, but they
> only result in the application hanging (going into an infinite loop
> no doubt).
>
Now you've explained the REAL problem, of course it's easier to see how to
solve it.

There are various synchronization primitives which you might use for this
purpose. The simplest is mutex, but that doesn't support threading and your
question kind of implies that the variable will be changed in another
thread.

Something else you haven't explained is whether the code which changes the
variable's value is aware that there is another component waiting for it to
change (in other words, are you working with code you can modify, or must
you just wait for the value to change).

In multi-threaded applications the Queue module allows you to synchronize
different threads quite effectively.

regareds
 Steve






From wurmy at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  3 17:21:40 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:21:40 GMT
Subject: PEP 234 little bug?
References: <3c817238@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <3C817FC1.A155DBAB@earthlink.net> <just-70EFBD.09542003032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3C82A23F.84C66941@earthlink.net>

Just van Rossum wrote:
> 
> In article <3C817FC1.A155DBAB at earthlink.net>,
>  Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> > Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> > >
> > > Just read through some of the already implemented PEPs.
> > >
> > > PEP 234 (iterators) states:
> > >
> > > >    - It has been proposed that a file object should be its own
> > > >      iterator, with a next() method returning the next line.  This
> > > >      has certain advantages, and makes it even clearer that this
> > > >      iterator is destructive.  The disadvantage is that this would
> > > >      make it even more painful to implement the "sticky
> > > >      StopIteration" feature proposed in the previous bullet.
> > > >
> > > >      Resolution: this has been implemented.
> > >
> > > I can't see a next() in a file object. Shouldn't it be
> > > "Resolution: this has not been implemented." ?
> >
> > Hm, I don't think so. I think it does not say that the *file*
> > object should have a next() method... rather, it says that
> > it's its own iterator, and the iterator has the next()
> > method. Maybe the wording could have been a bit more careful,
> > but essentially it's true what is says. And iterating over
> > files has indeed been implemented in 2.2.
> 
> Just yesterday I've filed a bug about the current behavior that is
> caused by the fact that the file object is *not* its own iterator:

Should it be? This may be a dumb question, but are there important
reasons to do this, besides conformance with the PEP? I mean, the
current situation does do the job; "for line in file" works. What
would be the additional benefit of making a file its own
iterator?

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 09:19:53 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 09:19:53 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <mailman.1017474166.1514.python-list@python.org> <gEEp8.77869$Ou.56166@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a875u9$qql$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <gEEp8.77869$Ou.56166 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>,
Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote ...
>> [Bengt Richter, on consuming vast quantities of memory quickly]
>>>
>>> s = 'x'*2**30 would be a quick gig too. But it made me think
>>> maybe one could write a sort of memory test (to exercise the
>>> available python space, anyway).  Does python run out of memory
>>> gracefully?
>>
>> Very.  You should get a clean MemoryError exception if you try.
>>
>> >>> 'x' * 2**30
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> MemoryError
>> >>>
>>
>My laptop upgrade clearly takes my platform beyond the timbot conceptual
>limit: it took about three minutes to start printing (I'm not thinking of
>letting it finish) with no error message in sight.

<boggle>  How many gigs in your swap file?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 13:02:54 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:02:54 -0800
Subject: swap
In-Reply-To: <Xns91C8E949EF9Acompexamsdirectvinte@216.227.56.89>
References: <Xns91C8E949EF9Acompexamsdirectvinte@216.227.56.89>
Message-ID: <20020305100254.77d8354b.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 5 Mar 2002 02:26:24 -0500
Computer Exams Info wrote:

> If you know you have some stuff very useful that I haven't, we can swap.
> There are my collected stuff:
> 
> CIW (Certified Internet Webmaster) STUDY PACKAGE 
> CIW Foundations (365pages, pdf, 4Mb)
> CIW Study Guides: Foundations, Internetworking, JavaScript, Perl,
Security 

[snip...]

> SCJP(SUN Certified Java 2 Programmer)
> SCJD(SUN Certified Java 2 Developer)
> SCAJ (SUN Certified Enterprise Architect for J2EE) 
> SCSA 7, 8, (SUN Certified Solaris Administrator)
> 
> more than 100 Training Books
> - Java Programming Language, Java Programming Language Workshop, Solaris 
> Network Administration, Solaris 2.6, 7, 8, Administration, Operating 
> Enviroment Network Admin, Enterprise JavaBeans. Programming, Mastering 
> Enterprise the Java. 2 Platform Enterprise Edition and so on.
> 

I've got a slightly worn (only installed once!) copy of Python 2.1 if
you're interested ;)

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Mar 21 08:31:44 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 07:31:44 -0600
Subject: MySQL's applicability (was: Java and Python)
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C9887B9.6090603@thinkware.se> <82B3E32A4EFF0E57.126AAAECC4E2B809.F8613C4251DB7A4B@lp.airnews.net> <3C999C77.3010801@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3B60DBA0567258CC.2D1920C635D59D07.BECBFEB54871D6AF@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3C999C77.3010801 at pobox.com>,
Ahmed Moustafa  <amoustafa at pobox.com> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> Undeniably.  That's certainly the conclusion of "the first time
>> a computer publication has published database benchmark results
>> ...", as *eWeek* did in its 25 February 2002 issue.  The subtitle
>> of the article was "Oracle9i and MySQL top the field ..."
>> 
>> So, no, MySQL is NOT "related to small to mid-size web applica-
>> tions".
>
>They were measuring the response times. A file-based application may do 
>the function with a response time in the same order which doesn't imply 
>that a file-based app is comparable to Oracle 9i. Their test generated 
>200,000 orders, that is a small-size web application, right? Also, parts 
>of the test used the nontransactional engine of MySQL!
>
>-- 
>Ahmed Moustafa
>

You're right.  I agree that comparison has plenty of flaws.
>From your original posting, I couldn't tell whether such
subtleties were meaningful to you.

There certainly are many people who believe that 200,000
orders is ... well, at least not "small-size".  Now I know
that you know better.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Mar  7 15:18:28 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:18:28 -0800
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <3C87C057.4040902@sympatico.ca>
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net> <20020307035851.GA23955@isis.gerrietts.net> <mailman.1015474452.29610.python-list@python.org> <3C87C057.4040902@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20020307201828.GG29379@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Ramkumar Kashyap (rkashyap at sympatico.ca):
> Somebody in this thread raised the point that the logic involved in 
> programming in not intuitive.  I agree with that. The point I want to 
> make is that there are programs like Hooked-on-Phonics, and other 
> remedial language programs that are quite effective in raising the 
> literacy levels among adults.  

Yes! And I'm interested in getting to the point of at least some
general pointers toward how to go about teaching languages. In my
professional capacity, I'm often called on to teach programming
concepts to my peers, or to provide training on various aspects of a
project's architecture. Some of that is because of my background, some
of it is because I don't mind doing it nearly as much as the average
engineer.

> Another point (this is purely from observation and others with children 
> may want to corroborrate) is that children tend to learn faster and 
> retain longer with repetition.  I don't know if there are any people on 
> CLP who are also conversant with the human brain and can shed light on 
> the formation of new neural pathways etc.

I know just enough to spout off like I know a lot, but I think others
can talk more. I think I'll refrain from spouting too much....

I will say that I think the gender thing is a biological difference,
though. Women, especially when younger, have better cooperation
between their "left" and "right" brain. This makes them great at a lot
of things. Men have less cooperation, which makes them better at
focussing on a single task.

This is (of course) a gross overgeneralization. When you actually
trace into the neuroscience around it, all the "except" and "but you
hafta understand" conditions mitigate this down to a discernable trend
but nothing like an absolute.

I think that maybe there's a way to build in appeal for highly
coordinated thinkers, too -- I learned to program largely by thinking
of it as a more challenging form of poetry -- but I'm not sure how to
make that appeal broad.

(Maybe saying something about gender differences is too controversial,
so if you're feeling like I need a good flaming, consider how your
flame will contribute to the development of teaching strategies,
please!)

> I should also confess that I have an ulterior motive in this
> discussion, which is to teach my kid to program, (which is still a
> few years away).

Hee! Me too. I think the best advice I've gotten so far is to do it
and enjoy it and make it accessible. I'm personally thinking that
I'm going to use Lego Mindstorms as a starting point. He likes Legos,
likes robots, and in a few years, he might be able to put them
together....

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Punctuality is the virtue of the bored." 
<geoff at gerrietts net>                               --Evelyn Waugh



From ffjhenon at club-internet.fr  Sat Mar 16 06:28:01 2002
From: ffjhenon at club-internet.fr (Fabien =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E9non?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:28:01 +0100
Subject: Linux endline
Message-ID: <3C932C41.2974C1DA@club-internet.fr>

I am writing a POV-RAY editor which can be used with Windows or Linux.

1? When I use it under Linux I would like to get rid of the \r which
appears at the end of each line. ( I know there is a difference of
endline between Windows, Mac and Linux).

I added a slice, but it doesn't seem to work.
I tried to use
  self.text.insert(END, line[:-1])
But it does not help
In short how do I get rid of endline in *nix

----
def enter_text(self):
        if plat=="win32":
          l=1
          self.filename = askopenfilename()
          if self.filename:
    self.text.delete(1.0, END)
  fd = open(self.filename)
   for line in fd.readlines():
  l=l+1
  self.text.insert(END, line)
   fd.close()
        elif plat=="linux-i386":
          l=1
          self.filename = askopenfilename()
          if self.filename:
    self.text.delete(1.0, END)
  fd = open(self.filename)
   for line in fd.readlines():
  l=l+1
  self.text.insert(END, line) # self.text.insert(END, line[:-1])
   fd.close()
-----------


2? One more thing, I'd like to add syntax highlighting with braces,
parentheses,.... matching.
I'd like to know it is feasible to implement it.


3? Is there a way to fire up an external application (like POV or a
modeler) in background or as a sub-thread :
When I start POV from within the application, I have to wait for the
raytracing to be over to use the editor again.

I use
  os.system("application_to_run")

Thanks for any help









From marklists at mceahern.com  Sat Mar 30 06:01:36 2002
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:01:36 -0600
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <NCBBLFCOHHDIKCAFGCFBCEGCKIAA.marklists@mceahern.com>

[Guido]
>    1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

+1

[Paul Rubin]
> I don't see much need for it.  There's no need to turn Python into Java.
> Python, C, and Lisp have all done fine without bools.  What kinds of
> programming tasks in Python are bools supposed to make easier?

I view the proposal not as 'making programming tasks easier' but as
improving the readability of Python code.  If the proposal can achieve the
latter without 'making programming tasks harder', it seems like an obvious
win.

// mark




From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Tue Mar 12 05:29:25 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:29:25 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <m3sn76wcwl.fsf@salesman.cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8rm1v.592.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Christopher Browne <cbbrowne at acm.org> graced us by uttering:
> Tim Hammerquist <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote:
>> Graz Bukanoff <drevenhaug at hotmail.com> graced us by uttering:
>> > Is Python an object based programming langauge?
>> 
>> According to Smalltalk enthusiasts, definitely not.
>> 
>> According to some Pythonistas, yes.
>> 
>> IMNERHO, Python is object _oriented_, but not object _based_. I don't
>> fault Python for this; it was a design decision, and probably a good
>> one.
>> 
>> If the question were "Can Python model my OOP idea?", the answer is an
>> emphatic yes.
> 
> That depends somewhat on your OOP idea.
> 
> If the OOP idea is to use classes to define a hierarchy of methods,
> then sure.
> 
> If your "OOP idea" is to have generic functions ala CLOS, or to do
> FLAVORS-style mixins, then possibly not.

...that's if _you_ asked if Python could model _your_ OOP idea.

I felt comfortable assuming the OP's ideas would fall well within
Python's very wide range of applicability. I took the risk.

Tim Hammerquist
-- 
One should always be in love.  That is the reason one should never marry.
    -- Oscar Wilde


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 27 07:39:59 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:39:59 GMT
Subject: Python IMAP proxy
Message-ID: <slrnaa3fc2.1cc.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

Is one available somewhere that I can reuse?

Gerhard


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 14:46:01 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:46:01 -0800
Subject: Dealing with python version
References: <slrnaa2gf7.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <3CA22178.CAE46492@ccvcorp.com>


Andrei Kulakov wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like if python1.6 or 2.0 are
> already installed and you install a newer version, python command still
> points to the old interpreter.

Depends on the OS you're using.


> I think it would be sensible to use the newest installed python to run
> a program. Is there some elegant way to do that?

Depends on the OS you're using.


> I would ideally prefer it to run using newest interpreter available
> unless it's older than some minimum requirement. It's not very
> user-friendly to put #!/usr/bin/env python2.1 bang line and then say in
> a README that if user gets an error, he has to somehow find out what's
> the latest version he's got and change the bang line to it.
>
> What's the proper way to deal with all of this?

Depends on the OS you're using.  ;)

Seriously, though... you're obviously using some sort of *nix (this
particular issue isn't a problem on Windows).  In general, on *nix,
/usr/bin/python should be a symbolic link to the version you want to use,
and it wouldn't be difficult to change that to point to the new version.
The problem comes when you're using, say, Red Hat, which has system
utilities that rely on Python 1.5.2 and break under 2.*, so that you
effectively cannot change /usr/bin/python to mean anything other than 1.5.2
(RedHat "solves" this by symlinking 2.* as /usr/bin/python2).  However,
there isn't an easy way to identify which Python version a given script
should be run under.

Typically, the most practical way to deal with this is to use plain
"python" in the shebang line, and then document that your package requires
a certain minimum version.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 15:42:25 2002
From: daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com (David Brady)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:42:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [XP] Code Complete: Things were Scary Back Then
In-Reply-To: <AFE3FBA300B6F04282BE07949DB2E12303F3C7C6@TORINO.corp.es.com>
Message-ID: <20020329204225.46643.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> 
> I don't remember any of the BASICs that I used,
> whether Apple II,
> PET, C-64, MS, or other having modules at all.  Are
> you sure the Apple II
> had modules?  Since it wasn't compiled, I assume
> there was some way
> to load other modules into memory while the program
> was running.

I did this a lot.  There was no enforcement of
"modules" in BASIC, but you could still do modular
programming.  You only had the one big program to work
with, but you mentally divided it up into sections. 
For example, a hotel reservation program I wrote had a
logical layout as follows:

Starting at line 100 was the "bootstrap" code.  It
initialized my globals, read in the config files,
etc., then around line 350 or so fell through to line
1000.

Line 1000 was the beginning of the code that displayed
the main menu, let the user navigate the menu and make
a choice.  Depending on your choice, the code would
GOSUB to line 2000, 3000, 4000, etc.

Line 2000 was the beginning of the code that let you
enter a new reservation.  Line 3000 let you delete
reservations.  Line 4000 let you search for a
reservation.  You get the idea.  Each section was only
10-50 lines long, and there was a lot of space between
the end of a section and the beginning line of the
next section, but you knew when you were browsing the
code that if you were looking at, say, line 3120, you
were in the "delete a reservation" section.

(Yes, using the RENUM command was a serious pain.)

That was in 1986.  Ironically, I never properly
learned the concept of "modular programming" as a
separate concept until 1996 or so, after programming C
for 4 years.  In BASIC, we called it "Structured
Programming", but I didn't really understand "tight
cohesion, loose coupling" until I read McConnell's
book a decade later.

*shrug*  IIRC, Kent Beck says he started learning the
principles of XP programming in assembly.  You can
*do* it, but sometimes a lot of your organization is
external to the program or language itself, and lives
only in the habits you practice while developing.

Cheers,

-dB

=====
David Brady
daves_spam_dodging_account at yahoo.com
I'm feeling very surreal today... or *AM* I?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/



From sakkinen at cs.jyu.fi  Thu Mar 28 02:38:59 2002
From: sakkinen at cs.jyu.fi (Markku Sakkinen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:38:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Inheritance workshop
Message-ID: <a7uhaj$8bd$2@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>

Second and last call for contributions:

		The Inheritance Workshop at ECOOP 2002
		======================================

   - The first ECOOP workshop focusing on inheritance since 1992 -

Full information is available at the web site:
  http://www.cs.auc.dk/~eernst/inhws/
A convenient LaTeX template has just been included.

The DEADLINE is near already!
-----------------------------

  Position papers due: April 8, 2002

  Notification of acceptance: April 29, 2002

  Deadline for early ECOOP registration: May 6, 2002

  Final version of accepted papers due: May 27, 2002

  Workshop: June 11, 2002 (Tuesday)


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Tue Mar 12 17:16:08 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:16:08 +1100
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
In-Reply-To: <20020311233409.A30846-100000@palanthas.neverending.org>
References: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de> <mailman.1015851019.8195.python-list@python.org> <20020311233409.A30846-100000@palanthas.neverending.org>
Message-ID: <200203122216.WAA18579@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:39, Frank Tobin wrote:
> Oleg Broytmann, on 2002-03-11, wrote:
> > > Are the sources available somewhere?
> > > Is there a new home page for Gadfly?
> > > Is there anybody who will maintain such a page?
> >
> >    My answer is no better than http://sourceforge.net/projects/gadfly/
>
> Except for the fact that that project was registered over 2 years ago, and
> has had 0 activity...

That's mostly because the code works and the original author doesn't have the 
time to do any enhancements. Feel free to put your hand up if you feel it is 
deficient in some way.


    Richard



From bernie at 3captus.com  Fri Mar  1 20:13:27 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:13:27 GMT
Subject: string to dictionary
References: <a2972632.0203011522.16f1b8e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8027BB.1FEA6419@3captus.com>

les ander wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> i have a list of strings like this:
> 
> aList=[ 'a_1 b_1', 'a_2 b_2', 'a_3 b_3',...]
> 
> i want to convert this to a dictionary with a_i -> b_i without
> using loops (it is trivial to do it with loops)
> i tried this
> 
> dict={}
> map(lambda x,d=dict: c=string.split(x), d[c[0]]=c[1], aList)

map(lambda x,d=dict: c=string.split(x), d[c[0]]=c[1], aList)
                      ^                 ^    
First, assignment is not allowed within lambda.  Secondly, the scope of
lambda ends at the first comma (correct me if I were wrong).  Hence
d[c[0]=c[1] become a list and since c is not defined outside lambda, the
error message resulted.

The following code should work:

>>> aList=[ 'a_1 b_1', 'a_2 b_2', 'a_3 b_3']
>>> dict = {}
>>> map( lambda x, d=dict: d.update( {x.split()[0] : x.split()[1]}), aList)
[None, None, None]
>>> dict
{'a_1': 'b_1', 'a_2': 'b_2', 'a_3': 'b_3'}
>>> 

I would like to see a better solution as I find using split() twice ugly

> 
> but it complains that "keyword can't be an expression"
> can someone please help me get this right?
> thanks
> les


Bernie

-- 
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.  So far as I can remember, there is not one
word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.

                -- Bertrand Russell


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 14:07:38 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:07:38 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <slrnaac5uf.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a876oh$rmc$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaaenjq.7hd.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 31 Mar 2002 09:33:53 -0500, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>In article <slrnaac5uf.2gs.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
>phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>That *is* a valid reason. However, it must be decided whether 
>>Python's primary goal is to be easy to learn or easy to use.
>
>It must?  Much of why I love Python so much is because it's *both*.

There are bound to be some cases where both goals collide. The fuss 
over / is a good example, IMO.

>using lots of simple, orthogonal constructs, Python manages that unusual
>feat.  That's the main reason I was (and am) unhappy with the "print >>"
>proposal, but on the whole, I can't argue with Guido's ability to find
>solutions that promote the goals of both "easy learn" and "easy use".

That's true.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From arturs at iidea.pl  Sat Mar  9 06:54:04 2002
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:54:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tokenize a string or split on steroids
References: <4lpj8u4nbsoqjf2h4upadti62jh4sf4i59@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8jual.623.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

Fernando Rodr?guez wrote:
> 
> I need to tokenize a string using several separator characters, not just one
> as split().  
> 
> For example, I want a function that returns ['one', 'two'] when given the
> string '{one}{two}' .

Normaly you would use the re module, but in this case...

>>> import string
>>> a="{one}{two}{three}{four}"
>>> string.split(a[1:len(a)-1],'}{')
['one', 'two', 'three', 'four']

;)

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Mon Mar  4 17:25:53 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:25:53 GMT
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
References: <mailman.1015266376.28131.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RvSg8.3947$JZ2.253@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

Yeah,

Windows permissions are totally different than Unix and alot more robust,
assuming you don't go with the default install ;)

There are 13 (I believe) different "flags" that can be applied to files.
Each of these is attached to a user or group in an Access Control List.  The
list size is entirely arbitrary, so you're not tied into User, Group, Other
levels.  Then in W2K you can even specify explicit Denies that override
permissions.  This allows you to do all sorts of goofy stuff like preventing
the Administrator (root) from even being able to view files, or granting all
"RESEARCH" users change control unless that "RESEARCH" user is "JOE"

xcacls is the command line equiv. of chmod if you want to get a quick idea
of how different things are.
--
-

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015266376.28131.python-list at python.org...
>
> Sorry for the off-topic post.  My entire C programming world these days is
> in the Python community, so I'm completely disconnected from other C
> programming resources.  (Pointer to information about porting Unix code to
> MSVC would be much appreciated.)
>
> Given this simple file access permission code:
>
>     mode_check(struct stat *buf, uid_t uid, uid_t gid,
>                unsigned int umask, unsigned int gmask, unsigned int omask)
>     {
>         /* root always gets to go */
>         if (uid == 0) return 1;
>
>         if (uid == buf->st_uid) return buf->st_mode & umask;
>
>         if (gid == buf->st_gid) return buf->st_mode & gmask;
>
>         return buf->st_mode & omask;
>     }
>
> how would I do this under Windows?  Is the permission model there even
> remotely similar to what I'm used to on Unix systems?  I poked around
> posixmodule.c, but it makes next to no use of uids and gids.  As far as I
> can tell, Windows doesn't know about uid_t or gid_t, though it has a
struct
> _stat type whose st_uid and st_gid fields are shorts, so I can work around
> the missing types.
>
> Thx,
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
>




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Mar  1 05:04:06 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 11:04:06 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5nhn5$8c3$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <j47koweh9l.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> I'm not sure what you mean by 'encoding cookies' but I assume you
> mean something analogous to browser cookies, where some data of
> interest is stored separately but related to some other data and
> processing, like HTML form sumbissions etc.

I took the term from Stephen Turnbell, and I understood him to mean
the coding: variable that Emacs recognizes, i.e. some declaration
inside the file - quite unlike a browser cookie.

> Perhaps we could just use a file to contain extra file metadata,
> letting a file of metadata govern other files it names in the same
> directory as itself. Probably a dot file in *nix.

Nice idea, different PEP.

> For PEP 263 purposes, it would only need to be a text file with file
> names tab delimited from keyword=encoding-info, with the first line(s)
> perhaps with a glob pattern for a compact way of specifying encoding
> for a lot of files in a directory at once.

I don't think the file encoding information should be stored in a
different file; the risk of the two files becoming disassociated is
just to big to be acceptable.

> To provide international encoding for file-associated info, like
> a local dialect/special characters name etc., in a system whose
> native file naming is more restricted, perhaps this directory of
> file attributes could be standardized to UTF-8 for its own encoding.

We are not talking about file names here, but about file contents.

> There are some changes as to legality checks, apparently,
> as of last May. I'm wondering if this affects PEP 263
> and/or the unicode implementation in Python.

That doesn't affect this PEP; as for the Unicode 3.1 conformance, I
believe the current CVS implements UTF-8 correctly.

Regards,
Martin


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 08:05:56 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:05:56 +0000
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
References: <mailman.1015612095.8491.python-list@python.org> <slrna8ilqe.uas.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8k25k.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:29:02 +0000 (UTC), Huaiyu Zhu <huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com> wrote:
>- Not a wart:
>
>  1. It is very clear what it does.
>  2. range() can be used elsewhere.  No new syntaxes.
>  3. In most situations you loop over list of items instead of counters.
>
>
>- Wart:
>
>  When you do need the index, neither of the following is very nice looking:
>
>     for i, x in zip(range(len(a)), a):
>         b[i] = x
>
>     for i in range(len(a)):
>         b[i] = a[i]

What you sohuld be able to do is say:

   for i in a.keys():
      b[i] = a[i]

You can get a dictionary's keys, so you ought to be able to do so 
with sequence types, in the same way.

(Actually I'd say it is a failing in Python generally that the 
collection typers are not as well-integrated-together as in e.g. 
Smalltalk).

>the solution is too broad: it produces iterators in many uninteded places.
>
>
>Two ideas that I do like:
>
>      for i, x in items(a):
>          b[i] = x

That's nice.

>      for i in indices(a):
>          b[i] = a[i]

Instead of indices(a) use a.keys() for consistency with mapping 
types. This could return an xrange.

>They address the right problems at minimum cost.  They can be extended to
>xitems and xindici, of course.

Indeed.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From bernie at 3captus.com  Tue Mar  5 02:44:26 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:44:26 GMT
Subject: Python Refactoring Browser
References: <pan.2002.03.04.19.39.07.254668.2094979@forte.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <3C8477DD.F28F6F54@3captus.com>

Hi Mathew,

Mathew Yeates wrote:

> I am in desperate need of a refactoring browser for python. I've written a
> fairly large program and now am trying to clean it up. I change a member
> variable and WHAM I break my code in 95 different locations.
>
> I'm aware of Bicycle Repair Man http://bicyclerepair.sourceforge.net/,
> which, when better developed will be exactly what I want. There is also
> PyIDEA http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyidea/, but it's just starting up.
> And Boa  ( http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ ) doesnt seem designed
> for refactoring although I have been using its automatic UML generation to
> give me ideas on how to reorganize classes.
>
> When I'm programming in C, I have cscope which I use with a VIM interface.
> Its not much but at least I can locate variables easily.
>
> Has anyone else refactored a large Python program? How did you do it?
>

I used pyunit.  It is now a standard library in python (check module
unittest).  I know Zope use it too.

Bernie


>
> Mathew

--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein



From uwe at rocksport.de  Tue Mar 26 16:40:17 2002
From: uwe at rocksport.de (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 21:40:17 GMT
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com> <a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7qps1$7u2s9$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:

| That may be the case, but Jeff brought up some good points.  It looks odd
| to create a window in this fashion (it looks procedural rather than OO).  A
| more typical approach would be something like:

I know what you mean, but I'd like to write a general procedure
which generates an input/output mask based on a relational database
describption. And this mask may appear in a wxFrame *or* a wxDialog.
So I use the "parent" of the mask as a parameter of my function...

Greetings, Uwe



-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468


From Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.comNOSPAM  Thu Mar 28 10:52:45 2002
From: Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.comNOSPAM (Ken Peek)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:52:45 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
Message-ID: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>

Well-- OK, my new ISP doesn't have a news server, but I found one
that I could use to post this with.  If you reply to my email, do
the 'nospam' thing first to my email address...

I really am interested in what people think about this.  I have
looked at all the other c.l.py posts on this construct, but I
don't think anyone proposed this format.

BTW-- the 'until' thing in the original letter was already posted,
so please disregard that part of this post- (I left it in for
accuracy.)

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Guido van Rossum
  Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 04:45
  To: Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com
  Cc: Marc-Andre Lemburg
  Subject: Re: PEP 0275

  If you really want to discuss this, it's better to post to c.l.py.

  --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ken Peek [mailto:Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com]
  Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 01:05
  To: Marc-Andre Lemburg
  Cc: Guido van Rossum
  Subject: PEP 0275

  How about:

  match some_object:

      ("I dream of Jeanie",):
          print "with the light brown hair"

      (1,3,5,7):

          print "some odd numbers"

          # 'break' leaves the entire match structure
          if (time_to_leave): break

          # 'continue' jumps to the first
          # statement in the next clause
          continue

      (123,456,789):

          print "some bigger numbers too"

      (19,56,22):

          print "some random numbers"

      (1001,2002,3000):
          # YES! It IS possible we want to do NOTHING!
          pass

      any:
          print "we got here because there were no matches"

  This is kind of a neat construct because you can put multiple
  tests on one line, and it doesn't look too messy (like C's
  'switch' would look.)  Also-- we are not limited to matching up
  only integers.  This is very clean code compared to a long string
  of "if/elif/elif/elif/else" clauses...  I like READABLE code--
  which is why I like Python!

  Note that the aggregate of the tuples must have unique values and
  types-- (this allows for efficient implementation, and for future
  optimization.)  A match is found only when BOTH the type and
  value are the same.  'some_object' can be any object, but it
  would be wise to not use floating point numbers or other things
  that do not guarantee a valid '==' compare.  I suppose these
  ambiguous types could be flagged with an error from the compiler,
  but I would hate to see a run time check (which would slow things
  down, just to accommodate a bad programmer.)

  The match clauses do not 'fall through' automatically like a "C -
  switch" statement-- (this is the source of many errors in 'C'.)
  A clause can be forced to 'fall through' with the use of a
  'continue' statement, which jumps to the first statement in the
  next match clause (because 'falling through' IS useful
  sometimes.)  I suppose the interpreter/compiler could flag an
  error "UnreachableCode" (or 'BadIndentation') if 'continue' was
  used by itself, and there were statements after it at the same
  indentation level...

  The 'any' keyword could be changed to 'else' I suppose, but I
  think the word 'any' "just plain sounds better when you say it",
  and I like the 'match' keyword better than anything I have seen
  or can think of...

  =================================

  I have also been mulling over a new 'until' keyword-- it works
  the same as 'while', but the body of the loop is executed first
  before the conditional test is made the first time, and the sense
  of the test is opposite (ie- the test must be FALSE for the body
  of the loop to be executed again.)  'continue' jumps directly to
  the conditional test, and 'break' jumps out of the loop (as expected):

  until something_becomes_true:

      print 'here we are in the body of the loop'
      print 'which was executed at least once'
      print "before the 'something_becomes_true'"
      print 'test was made.'

      # we can skip to the test now with a 'continue':
      if bad_programming_practice == TRUE: continue
      print 'nope-- no continue'

      # we can get out of the loop with a 'break':
      if another_bad_programming_practice: break

      # we probably need to stop the loop someday:
      something_becomes_true = do_some_check()

  =================================

  I doubt if any of this will ever make it into Python (well--
  maybe Python 3000)-- but it's fun to think about.

  Well, what do you think?

  --Ken Peek
  Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com
  (This letter is released to the public domain-- KP.)





From olav.viken at kmss.no  Wed Mar  6 03:54:47 2002
From: olav.viken at kmss.no (olav.viken at kmss.no)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 08:54:47 GMT
Subject: Pyhon and PIL
References: <ydbh8.4830$TU3.128876@news4.ulv.nextra.no> <mailman.1015369331.23197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a64lgn$ham$1@oslo-nntp.eunet.no>

>Maybe this would work?
>
>    import Image
>    Image.open('yellow.bmp').convert('L').point(255*[0] + [255]) \
>        .convert('1').save('yellow.bmp')

Yes, it did!

Thanks a lot Fran?ois Pinard

Best regards
Olav



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 23 22:09:36 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 03:09:36 GMT
Subject: load html frameset out of Python script
References: <30cf5082.0203221039.791cab07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7jg1g$hct$0@216.39.172.122>

On 22 Mar 2002 10:39:43 -0800, news.Andreas at gmx.net (Andreas) wrote:

>Hello everybody,
>
>I am trying to set up a html site with frames. I want to load the
>frameset out of a Python script.
Meaning what? Do you want to run a python cgi script and generate
the frames and content dynamically? Or what is the role of Python
in this? You don't need a script to load the file below. You just
need to put it in a directory that a web server serves from (along
with the specified src files, if you want to see content in the frames).

>Frameset definition:
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
>        "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
><html>
><head>
><title>right frame</title>
></head>
>  <frameset frameborder="no" rows="20%,20%,8%,52%">
>    <frame src="control.html" name="frame_control" scrolling="no"
>noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>    <frame src="customer.html" name="output_customer" scrolling="no"
>noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>    <frame src="buttons.html" name="component_buttons" scrolling="no"
>noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>    <frame src="empty.html" name="output_component" scrolling="auto"
>marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
>  </frameset>
>  <noframes>
>  No frame support of your browser!
>  </noframes>
><body>
></body>
></html>
>
When the above is served one way or another from the web server, the browser
sees just that much at the first. It sees that there a src=<some place> for
each frame, so it will request whatever is specified from the server, to fill in
the initial pages.  If you want control back to a cgi script for the initial content,
those sources would typically be something like src="/cgi-bin/some_script.py",
of there would be such hrefs in some links in the initial static page set.

>From the above, the browser will lay out empty frames and ask for control.html,
customer.html, buttons.html, and empty.html from the same base directory it loaded
the frameset.html from.

They either have to be available as files, or you have to have urls at some point
that cause a cgi program to run.

>I load this with the following code:
>
>File = "%s" % ('frameset.html')
>PageHandle = open(File, "r")
>PageInput = PageHandle.read()
>PageHandle.close()
>Display(PageInput)
>
>...the html file will be found but I can see just an empty page.
>
Empty, or error messages in the frames? What is "Display" and what
is the execution environment ??

>What can I do to realize this problem?
>Is it possible to write in a specific frame from my scripts?
>
If you set up a separate cgi program for each frame, then they don't
have to know where it's going. The browser will make the initial calls according
to the frameset definition. If you want clicks in one frame to generate ouput in
another, one way to control the destination is in the target attribute of links, e.g.,

    <a href="/cgi-bin/sfx.py?whatever=1&x=2" target="output_customer">click for customer stuff</a>

could be part of a control frame and would call on sfx.py to generate content in another frame.
You could also control stuff with javascript and DOM.

BTW, I couldn't find a "Display" method or function in any of the *py or *.c on my hard disk
python trees, so I assume it's in a module you imported. If so, which? It helps to let people
know a little about the context of your problem ;-)

If you are just running interactively, and Display essentially just sends one page to the
local browser by writing a temp file and invoking the browser, then what should the browser
think? It fill be looking for the other pages in the same temp file area.

If you are running a script, and Display basically just writes stdout, I'm still surprised you just
get a blank page. What does the browser show if you view source?

What are you actually doing? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar 11 23:15:41 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:15:41 -0500
Subject: Ho to use a regular expression group reference as hash key
References: <f2dbb0ed.0203111447.31eddd81@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6jve0$t1h$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Maybe the % substitution operator will help.

>>> person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}
>>> target = 'A sample sentence with %(entry1)s and %(entry2)s'
>>> print target % person
A sample sentence with value1 and value2

Another method would be to attempt to substitute every word
and if the word is not is the hash replace it with itself.

>>> import re
>>> target = 'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'
>>> person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}
>>> re.sub( r'b\w+\b', lambda word: person.get(word,word), target )
'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'


Raymond Hettinger


"Andreas Martin" <a.martin at perfectwww.de> wrote in message
news:f2dbb0ed.0203111447.31eddd81 at posting.google.com...
> Hallo !
>
> I'm a Python newbie and I have the following problem:
>
> A hash person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}
>
> and I would like to do a substitution with regular expression (an easy
> example)
> like this:
>
> pat = re.compile(r'(entry1)')
> t = pat.sub(person[\1],"something...entry1...something")
>
> I would like to substitute the "entry1" string by the respective hash
> element with the group reference \1 as hash key, that is to say
> t="something...value1...something".
>
> Similar in Perl:
>
> s/(entry1)/%person($1)/
>
> I hope my problem is understandable.
> Thanks




From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 03:17:11 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 00:17:11 -0800
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com>

Martin v. Loewis wrote in message:
> Certainly true; there is little interest in Python.NET in the Python
> community (just as there is little interest in other branches, such as
> Stackless, Psyco, and, to some degree, Jython).

I'm somewhat bewildered by this statement. You are surely
underestimating the interest of the community in the above projects.

perhaps-the-subject-is-smiley-enough-ly-yrs,

Sandy


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Thu Mar 14 09:07:13 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 06:07:13 -0800
Subject: SF vs. Lynx (was Re: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org> <uvgbzqto6.fsf@python.net> <a6q9lj$ce7$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xr8mnfdke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz) writes:
> OTOH, I still can't submit my stupid bug report AFAICT.  Is there anyone
> who uses Lynx to access SF?

Yes, I do sometimes.


From amuys at shortech.com.au  Sun Mar  3 23:23:29 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 20:23:29 -0800
Subject: Apology to Bill Gates (was Re: ASV module, CVS modules)
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0203010407.220cba32@posting.google.com> <mailman.1014988382.18886.python-list@python.org> <ud6yowepw.fsf@python.net> <c76ff6fc.0203011028.4434415f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203032023.712a6e37@posting.google.com>

sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote in message news:<c76ff6fc.0203011028.4434415f at posting.google.com>...
> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<ud6yowepw.fsf at python.net>...
> > Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> > 
> > >     John> Python, starting from a Unix background, where there is evidently
> > >     John> no such thing as an invalid character in a file name, ...
> > > 
> > > I believe "/" is not allowed in Unix filenames.  Not sure if this is
> > > escapable or not.
> > 
> > Don't think so.  NULLs are out, too.
> 
> It is not a case of "not allowed". You simply can't supply a file name
> containing a "/" or a NUL (not a *NULL*) because "/" is interpreted as
> a path separator and NUL as a string terminator.
> 
> My point was that Unix doesn't proactively check to see if you are
> trying to create a file whose name you may never see again.

Or more precisely, the unix creat/open syscalls don't take a filename
as a parameter, rather they take a pathname which is interpreted with
the above definitions in place.  As character escaping are considered
a UI issue, not an OS issue, all other characters are interpreted
literally.

If there are good UI reasons for forbidding the use of non-printing
characters in filenames, then the UI is responsible for enforcing
that.  The unix OS takes the reasonable position that if a program
considers it necessary to create such files, it isn't the OS's place
to refuse.

As such it is impossible for creat/open to be passed an invalid
argument under the various POSIX standards, therefore EINVAL can't
happen.  After all, even under NT, if the underlying filesystem might
support a given char, the argument can't be considered invalid. 
Therefore given that the definition of ENOENT (as listed in the linux
manpages, my copy of the POSIX function def's is at home) is

       ENOENT A directory component in pathname does not exist or
              is a dangling symbolic link.

The error for a filename with an embedded char unsupported by the
underlying filesystem is probably best described by ENOENT.

Andrae Muys

P.S.  as a matter of interest I had a play to demonstrate
non-printable filename handling on a linux box I have available to me:

Consider the following...
[root at ttdev7 test]# touch ^M^L^D
[root at ttdev7 test]# touch hello^Aworld
[root at ttdev7 test]# touch helloworld
[root at ttdev7 test]# ls
???  helloworld  hello?world
[root at ttdev7 test]# rm -i *
rm: remove `\r\f\004'? y
rm: remove `hello\001world'? y
rm: remove `helloworld'? n
[root at ttdev7 test]# ls
helloworld
[root at ttdev7 test]#

Note the control char's are inserted as literals using ^V^x as this is
bash and readline uses ^V to flag control char literals.  (the only
exception to this appear to be ^C).  Also note \r[eturn] == ^M, and
\f[ormfeed] == ^L.


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 13 17:29:51 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:29:51 +1100
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <20020313092621.C2272@ActiveState.com>
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net> <20020313092621.C2272@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <200203132230.WAA10310@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:26, Trent Mick wrote:
> [Michael Hudson wrote]
>
> > Time to look at roundup again?  The tracker on sf is starting to piss
> > me off (even more).
>
> If you *are* going to get motivated to look at a different tracker *please*
> consider bugzilla. You will find it a much more appropriate than roundup.
>
> Trent
>
> p.s. I am gonna regret feeding this.

Yes, please be at least a little constructive in your criticism! :)


   Richard



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Mar 14 04:34:00 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:34:00 +0300
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <a6ok8g$idp$0@216.39.172.122>; from bokr@oz.net on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 10:36:00PM +0000
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <20020313201539.2995aad0.andreas@mtg.co.at> <mailman.1016044409.14775.python-list@python.org> <a6ok8g$idp$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20020314123400.O9851@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 10:36:00PM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
> Ok, then how about:
>  ...     def __init__(self,s): self.sesc = "\\'".join('\\"'.join(s.split('"')).split("'"))

   That's limited advantage. Different SQL servers have different rules of
quoting.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 15:32:28 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:32:28 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a7ci6a$2fqd$1@news.idiom.com> <1o2m9ucoqb9qqs2fcign6sts3ckc3mqkma@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B94DC.67BC2826@ccvcorp.com>


Anders M Eriksson wrote:

> Hello Jim!
>
> I tried to run the program in Python 2.1 but I get errors
>
> >               for line in file:
> Here I get the error ^
>     for line in file:
> TypeError: loop over non-sequence
>
> Is this something specific for Python 2.2, or just a typo?

For Python 2.1, change the offending line to:

    for line in file.xreadlines():

and you should get the behavior that you want.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Fri Mar 22 06:35:32 2002
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:35:32 +0100
Subject: quick win32 pipe and objects question
References: <X0sm8.575$d7.169869@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <a7f4l7$g2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Sorry for this newby-question .. why pickle ?

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:X0sm8.575$d7.169869 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> when writing and reading from a pipe, is it okay to do something like ...
>
> >>> t = (0, 1, 2, 3)
> >>> r = win32pipe.CallNamedPipe(pipename, t, 512, 0)
>
> of should i pickle t first?
>
> -d
>
>




From mkelly2002 at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 15:21:18 2002
From: mkelly2002 at earthlink.net (Michael Kelly)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:21:18 -0500
Subject: Win32 Impersonation
References: <kJRo8.462443$pN4.32187350@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <63j9aug6a7halrrfd7h3919puq54um4ge8@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:04:32 GMT, "Giganews" <orl_ando74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Upon reading the ActivePython docs, I found
>that the user who runs the impersonation script needs SE_TCB_NAME,
>SE_CHANGE_NOTIFY_NAME, and SE_ASSIGNPRIMARYTOKEN_NAME priveleges.
>
>Maybe I'm missing the point here, but the only two accounts on these systems
>with these priveleges are the administrator and the local system account.
>Obviously, if I already were the administrator I wouldn't have this problem.
>I think I'm missing something.

Are you using AdjustTokenPrivileges() and related APIs?
If not check the Win32 API docs for those calls and see
if it applies.


Mike

--

"I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member."
    -- Groucho Marx


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 09:07:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:07:57 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com> <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA6B051.6D55B4D5@engcorp.com> <m3ofh5m2ts.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA7183D.C153DF81@engcorp.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> > If the documentation must be changed, why not just make it clear in
> > the documentation what it means when a method returns 1 or 0 or
> > None?
> 
> The documentation already says that. However "If the section in fact
> existed, return 1.  Otherwise return 0." leads to the question "why
> aren't you returning a boolean value?", to which the answer is
> "because they are not supported in the language".

Heh... I thought the answer was "we _are_ returning a boolean 
value, but they're spelled 1 and 0 in Python".

-Peter


From jody at adsl-216-62-149-210.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net  Mon Mar 25 11:39:29 2002
From: jody at adsl-216-62-149-210.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net (Jody Winston)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:39:29 GMT
Subject: Porting a Python app to IRIX -- need help
References: <KDLm8.103638$uA5.85596@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <m34rj4bnzy.fsf@adsl-216-62-149-210.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net>

"Paul F. Dubois" <dubois at users.sourceforge.net> writes:

> I am trying to get a Python-based app running on an SGI running IRIX 6.5. I
> am running into a problem involving some objects being compiled "n32" and
> others "o32". The linker refuses to link them.
> 
> I got pretty far by setting environment variable CC to "cc" but then it
> complained that the X11 library is o32. Can an SGI person tell me whether
> o32 or n32 is "normal" and what I tell the compiler to be sure I get that?
> 

To force the compilers and linkers to use only one ABI set the
environment variable SGI_ABI for example:

setenv SGI_ABI "-n32"
-- 
Jody Winston


From joel.quinet at be.unisys.com  Tue Mar 12 11:13:12 2002
From: joel.quinet at be.unisys.com (Joel Quinet)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:13:12 +0100
Subject: ADO and Store Procedure
Message-ID: <a6l64f$57e$1@ih292.ea.unisys.com>

Hi everybody

I make some test with ADO and Python which run correctly now.
But I still have some little problem :
The following code call a stored procedure in SQL Server 7.  This stored
procedure insert a row in a table.
There is a Unique Contsraint on that table.  If I try to insert an existing
value in that table with the following script,
I receive no error ....
I would like to receive an error and be able to deale with it.
Moreover, My store procedure return 1 in case of problem.  How can I rescue
that ?
How can I do that ?

PS : the stored procedure works well in SQL Interactif mode

Thanks
Joel

from win32com.client import constants
from win32com.client import gencache

mServer = '(local)'
mUsr = 'sa'
mPwd = ''
mDb = 'Test'

conn = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Connection')
DSN = "Provider=SQLOLEDB.1;Persist Security Info=False;User ID=" + mUsr +
";" + "Password=" + mPwd + ";Initial Catalog= " + mDb + " ; Data Source=" +
mServer + ""

err = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Error')

conn.Open(DSN)
cmd = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Command')
cmd.ActiveConnection = conn
cmd.CommandText = "Insert_Continent"
cmd.Prepared = 1
cmd.CommandType = constants.adCmdStoredProc
cmd.CommandTimeout = 15

prm = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Parameter')
prm.Type = constants.adChar
prm.Size = 6
prm.Direction = constants.adParamInput
prm.Value = 'Europe'
cmd.Parameters.Append(prm)

rs, res = cmd.Execute()




From neal at metaslash.com  Mon Mar  4 16:09:23 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:09:23 -0500
Subject: Why isn't pychecker mentioned prominently?
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> "Edward K. Ream" <edream at tds.net> writes:
> 
> > I just found out about pychecker (http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/) and
> > I am wondering why it isn't mentioned prominently all over the Python
> > web site: the tutorial, the links on the left and side of the home page,
> > topics guides, general reference etc.
> 
> Two reasons:
> 
> a) it is mentioned prominently. Guido mentioned as hist favourite tool
>    both in the proceedings and his keynote at IPC10. It can't get more
>    prominent than that, in the Python world :-)
> 
> b) because it is fairly new, and evolving
> 
> c) because nobody submitted patches to the tutorial.
> 
> (you always get three reasons in a message that says it will give two
> reasons :-)

:-)  All of these are true.

There have been some conversations about how pychecker should fit into
Python.  Right now, the timing isn't great.  Pychecker has it's share
of problems and is a work-in-progress.

However, there is general agreement that the functionality pychecker
offers will eventually get into Python.  We simply need to determine
the best approach.

In the meantime, I suppose the best approach is to add some doc
(both in Python and Pychecker).  I added a Python FAQ entry (4.101) 
a while ago.  What are some suggestions for where best 
to update documenation, provide links, etc. 
including  specific pages or files?

Neal


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 03:54:30 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:54:30 -0000 
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCD8B@intrepid>

> From:	Geoff Gerrietts [SMTP:geoff at gerrietts.net]
> For the space of around three years, a child is immersed almost
> constantly, from waking to sleep, and even sometimes while asleep, in
> language. For those first three years, the child is almost completely
> incapable of making him or herself understood.
 
You don't have kids, do you?

Children are able to make themselves understood to some extent by a year or
so, well in advance of their use of grammatical constriction.

Soon after that, they start to put words together into proto-sentences.
Again, they are understood. This is at least partly because patents make an
effort to understand malformed sentences. Computers don't do this!
(Interestingly, though children miss parts of sentences out at this age, and
for some time to come, they usually get those parts of the sentence that
they do use in the correct order. Stephen Pinker's 'The Language Instinct'
is a *facinating* read if you find this sort of thing even remotely
interesting - I cannot recommend it too highly.)

It seems to me that there are two differences between natural languages and
computer languages. Firstly, all children are natural geniuses with natural
language. Secondly, when using a natural language imperfectly, one can still
make oneself understood. (I certainly hope so, for my sake!) This isn't the
case with computer languages.

So I don't think that computer languages can be learned in the same way as
natural languages. Children learn language by a combination of instinct and
trial-and-error. We don't *have* a computer language instinct - only Guido
has one of those - and trial-and-error will just mean
trial-and-syntax-error.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au  Tue Mar 12 18:48:23 2002
From: zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:48:23 +1100
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
In-Reply-To: <88bc63c6.0203071841.1867a977@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <A3C488A2-3613-11D6-8AF5-000393031882@shangri-la.dropbear.id.au>

On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 01:41  PM, Doug Farrell wrote:

> So the requirements of the search engine are that it compress the text
> (or have index files so small that compression is un-necessary) and
> the retrieval engine have an API accessible to Python, not implemented
> as a command line tool. I want to incorporate the search engine into a
> larger application that links the text together with media. I know, I
> know, big demands, but that's why it's in the conceptual stage with me
> right now.

You may want to download a copy of Zope and see if the ZCatalog
product meets all your requirements. I don't think the indexes are
compressed, but they may be small enough for your needs anyway.
If this is an issue, I believe there is a ZODB storage implementation
that stores objects in a compressed format (but they still will chew
up RAM). You can talk to the Zope database directly from Python without
the need to run the Zope application server so it should interface
nicely with your GUI (the Standalone ZODB and just ZCatalog from the
Zope distribution might be more suitable in the long run for your
product since you won't get all the cruft you don't care about, but
using the Zope distribution initially gives you everything out of the
box with no hassles).

--
Stuart Bishop <zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au>
http://shangri-la.dropbear.id.au/




From justin at iago.org  Fri Mar  1 12:18:22 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:18:22 -0500
Subject: Python's Syntax
In-Reply-To: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com> ("David
 Russell"'s message of "Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:01:53 -0000")
References: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <x7n0xs6wbl.fsf@ra.iago.org>

"David Russell" <webmaster at greich.co.uk> writes:

> if condition == TRUE:
>     do this
>
>
> How do you tell it when to stop? I just can't figure out how to do it. Could
> somebody explain it to me please, even though I have a strange suspicious
> that it is one of the simplest deatils imaginable.

Just return to the previous indent level.

For instance:

if test:
    line1
    line2
    line3
line4

Lines 1-3 will be executed inside the if clause, and line4 follws it.

Python's logical blocks are delimited by indentation.

> Also, another thing about Python's syntax. Are statements just sperated by
> their lines, or do they have some form of seperator (like a semi-colon)?

Either.

You may place multiple statements on one line and delimit them with a
semicolon. 

-Justin

 




From garrett at bgb.cc  Thu Mar 21 15:54:47 2002
From: garrett at bgb.cc (Don Garrett)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:54:47 GMT
Subject: IntSpan?
References: <3c97c886@news.nwlink.com> <3C99F049.5A78B149@metaslash.com> <3c9a1ae9$1@news.nwlink.com> <Xns91D8D0AC73EBCcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3C9A481D.8DE2494D@bgb.cc>

Chris Liechti wrote:
> using xrange instead of range does not allocate a list but generates
> the vaulues when they're needed.
> 
> chris

  While xrange is an excellent optimization in some cases, it's not quite the
same thing as a list, so there are a number of things you can't do that seem
relevant.

  For a non-working example:

  xrange(1, 500) + xrange(600, 700)


--
Don Garrett                             http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting                                      garrett at bgb.cc


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sun Mar 17 16:49:02 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:49:02 +0300
Subject: time out socket
In-Reply-To: <jr4l8.22206$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>; from evebill8@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 05:33:03PM +0000
References: <jr4l8.22206$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020318004902.A30949@phd.pp.ru>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 05:33:03PM +0000, Billy Ng wrote:
> Would anybody please tell me how time out the socket.connect() if the host
> does not exists or is unable to connect, thanks!

   http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Sun Mar 31 15:18:00 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:18:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New-style exceptions?
Message-ID: <slrnaaerno.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

Is there a reason why new-style objects can't be used in the raise
statement?

>>> class Error(object): pass
...
>>> raise Error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: exceptions must be strings, classes, or instances, not type

This seems like an artificial restriction...

(Using 2.2)

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Mar  3 11:48:36 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 08:48:36 -0800
Subject: question about Generator
References: <u84gjbo6v11dca@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a5tkh1$9v4pq$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"chongqing xiao" <cqxiao at charter.net> wrote in message
news:u84gjbo6v11dca at corp.supernews.com...
> Hi,
>
> Suppose if I have a generator (func) which will return [2,4,6,8]
>
> Is any way I can just get the first item (instead of using for x in
func()
> to get the first item)
> or stop before I get the last item in the Generator.

To get as many as you want, use next:

>>> def func():
...     i = 1
...     while 1:
...             yield i*2
...             i += 1
...
>>> a = func()
>>> a.next()
2
>>> a.next()
4

> Also, any comments on what the following code will do. (I don't have
2.2
> installed so I
> can't try it myself)

>>> def func():
...     i = 1
...     while i<5:
...             yield i*2
...             i+=1
...
>>> for x in func():
...     for y in func():
...             print x,y
...
2 2
2 4
[...]
8 4
8 6
8 8
>>>

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Tue Mar 19 19:07:14 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:07:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
Message-ID: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

I know there are several solutions available for building standalone
binary executables from Python programs (Freeze, py2exe, McMillan
Installer, etc.) -- I just wondered if it would be possible to add
functionality like this to distutils? E.g. adding some command
(xdist, for executable, as opposed to the existing bdist?)...

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Mar  8 19:13:54 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:13:54 -0800
Subject: broken pipes, import errors (LONG, INVOLVED)
Message-ID: <20020309001354.GH4569@isis.gerrietts.net>

At work, I'm seeing an "interesting" problem in my production
environment, or maybe two problems. It's one of those problems that
crops up only irregularly, and when it does, its symptoms are somewhat
changeable. I'm hoping someone might recognize the symptoms and be
able to provide a clue about what we're seeing, or at least advice
toward resolution.

An Admission of Sorts
---------------------
  I should confess near the start that we're using Python 1.5.2 (slightly
  patched in the direction of 1.6) and a version of Zope that's so old that
  most people don't even like to think about it any more (2.1.3 for those
  that do). These run on top of security-hardened RedHat 6.2 boxes. So I
  recognize that the systems involved are not exactly up to date.
  
  On the other hand, the barriers to upgrading any of these are pretty
  substantial at a technical level. Consequently, upgrading will be pretty
  costly in terms of pure labor, regression testing, etc., and it's been
  slated for an off-peak season. Without a more substantial business case
  for why we need to upgrade than "because it's likely to be more stable",
  we need to muddle through as best we can.

  So with the confession out of the way, let me describe the situation.

Strange OSError
---------------
  Occassionally, the Medusa core of zope hiccups. The way it looks to me,
  the FCGI server has one end of a "trigger" object that contains a pipe.
  The asynccore engine behind Medusa has the other end of that pipe, and
  when the FCGI server "pulls the trigger", Medusa will wake up out of its
  select loop and deal with the data in its inbox.

  Well, every once in a while, when the FCGI server goes to "pull the
  trigger", an OSError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe. Now I think that means that
  the asynccore end of the pipe has gone and closed the pipe on us, but
  none of us can figure out why it would have done something that cruel.

  After this occurs, Zope is pretty much unusable, and must be restarted.
  This would be bad enough for most people, but it gets worse.

Bizarre Import Behavior
-----------------------
  Sometimes, when we get the strange OSError, even more Bad Things happen
  after we restart Zope. In particular, we have what we call the "import
  bug" (you know it's bad when you've got a name for it).

  We're pretty sure -- as in, all existing records indicate -- that the
  "import bug" only shows up on the heels of one of the broken pipes. That
  is, we get a broken pipe error from the FCGI server, we restart Zope,
  then we get this.

  "This" is extremely curious. In one of our Zope products, we have a
  sequence of logic that looks something like this:

  > statement = "import module.submodule.SubSubModule"
  > object_nm = "module.submodule.SubSubModule.Object"
  >
  > exec statement
  > object = eval(object_nm)

  Obviously, the names have been changed to protect the innocent and reduce
  the complications.

  When Zope starts back up, the app will execute this block of statements
  one or more times for several different values of "statement" and
  "object_nm".

  Sometimes, though, it fails. The way it fails is both unusual and a
  little unnerving.

  The first three lines execute flawlessly. No problem assigning local
  variables, no problem running the exec. But when we get to the fourth
  line, the eval fails with an AttributeError: SubSubModule not found.

  Now, this is a little strange, because we've just exec'ed the statement
  that imports it not a split second before. Further, we ARE finding
  "submodule", which would not be imported if it weren't for the exec'ing
  of statement.

  So we tried to do some tests to see what was really happening.

Things We've Tried
------------------
  It was clear to me pretty early on that we could reproduce the perceived
  behavior by running a script like the following:

  > import module.submodule.SubSubModule
  >
  > delattr(module.submodule, "SubSubModule")
  >
  > # this does nothing, really
  > import module.submodule.SubSubModule
  >
  > print eval("module.submodule.SubSubModule.Object")

  So the question became: who's importing and deleting our module?

  Well, it's not that simple. It turns out that three things that work in
  this scenario, don't in ours. Those three things are:

  - If you look in os.modules before the second import (or any subsequent
    imports), you'll see the cached module. Well, our exec'ed import was
    the first import of every module that failed.

  - If you wrap the "eval" in a try block, and reload() the module on
    failure, everything gets put back in place. In our case, though, a
    reload() appeared to work, just like the original import, but the
    module contained only a fraction of the names it was supposed to.

  - If you tear it down and stepwise import a piece at a time from the
    original files, it should work just like a reload(). For us, though,
    it neither works, nor fails silently like the reload() -- now it fails
    to import a name (call it AnotherObject) from yet another module
    (module.anothersub.YASSModule). The failure occurs during a
    load_source() call.

So. Has anyone seen anything like this before? Anyone have any ideas?



-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
-rw-rw-rw-:         permissions of the beast



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From shalehperry at attbi.com  Mon Mar 25 16:33:29 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:33:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PHP to Python
In-Reply-To: <Xns91DCE3FDC2EE3Djeff999@62.4.16.73>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020325133329.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 25-Mar-2002 jeff wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for a tool to translate code from PHP to Python.
> 
> Does it exists ?

seriously doubt it.  That's almost like asking for a perl -> python (or python
-> perl).



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 11:41:38 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:41:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in news:a7nhv1$mqa0r$1 at ID-
59885.news.dfncis.de:

> All true. On the other hand, Python has no possibility to display
> or change the owner and access control lists (except if you do some
> hardcore win32 programming).

It is messy, but not hardcore:

Python to display the owner of a file:
 os.system("dir /q " + filename)
Likewise, to display or change the access control list
 os.system("cacls "+arguments)
I don't know of an equivalent to change the owner of a file.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 19:21:31 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:21:31 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
 Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

> range[foo,bar,baz] is what is there and, for anyone who
> takes the time to learn the language instead of looking for problems, finds
> that it is quite clear.

Speak for yourself, please.  To Steve Lamb, range(foo,bar,baz) may be 
clear but it is not to me.  I understand what it means, I don't have to 
go looking in any texts, I don't pine after C's for(foo,bar,baz) 
instead, but it still takes me too much unnecessary time to work out the 
+1's and -1's whenever I want something other than the generic half-open 
interval.

And please avoid the ad-hominems ("too lazy to learn the language"), it 
doesn't contribute to rational debate.


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 12 17:07:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 22:07:42 GMT
Subject: english thesaurus and dictionary
References: <c4e6b17d.0203120905.757d5cd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6lu7e$5r8$1@216.39.172.122>

On 12 Mar 2002 09:05:47 -0800, bobnotbob at byu.edu (Bob Roberts) wrote:

>I want to incorporate an english thesaurus and dictionary into my
>application.  Does anybody know of freely available thesauri and
>dictionaries that I could use?

dict.org may be of interest.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 15:59:47 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:59:47 -0800
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
In-Reply-To: <86n0xmg2q4.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203050738280.30955-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
	<86n0xmg2q4.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>
Message-ID: <20020305125947.765c6562.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 05 Mar 2002 14:48:51 -0600
Tim Legant wrote:
> 
> Oh, are you from across the pond?  It was either Bronski Beat or the
> Communards who did an interesting cover of Ain't Necessarily So in the
> early '80s - I think both groups were Brits....  It's in more of a
> Broadway musical style than country, though.

It was Bronski Beat (from "Age of Consent").  I don't recall who did the
original.



-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de  Sun Mar 10 07:30:51 2002
From: MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de (maximilianscherr)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:30:51 -0000
Subject: server questions
Message-ID: <a6fjlr+f51u@eGroups.com>

hi,

ok at first my code (questions at the bottom):

import os.path
import os
import threading
import SocketServer
import binascii
import string
import socket

class Program:
    def Start(self):
        ucisfile = os.path.isfile('uoslserver.cfg')
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        pcinfohandler.CheckFile()
        ohandler = OHandler()
        ohandler.CheckFile()
        if ucisfile == 0:
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t find uoslserver.cfg!')

        elif ucisfile == 1:
            readuc = open('uoslserver.cfg')
            try:
                address = eval(readuc.readline())
                try:
                    ohandler.WriteO('Starting up...')
                    ihandler = IHandler()
                    serverthread = Server(address)
                    serverthread.start()
                    ihandlerthread = threading.Thread(None, 
ihandler.ReadI, None, (serverthread,))
                    ihandlerthread.start()
                    ohandler.WriteO('...finished!')
                    
                except:
                    ohandler.WriteO('...aborted!')
                    
            except:
                ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read uoslserver.cfg')

class OHandler:
    def CheckFile(self):
        ulisfile = os.path.isfile('uoslserver.log')
        if ulisfile == 0:
            writeul = open('uoslserver.log', 'w')
            writeul.close()

        elif ulisfile == 1:
            os.remove('uoslserver.log')
            writeul = open('uoslserver.log', 'w')
            writeul.close()

    def WriteO(self, string):
        writeul = open('uoslserver.log', 'a')
        print string
        writeul.write(string +'\n')
        writeul.close()

class Server(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self, address):
        self.serverstate = 1
        self.address = address
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, None, self.Start)
        
    def Start(self):
        self.server = SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer(self.address, 
RequestHandler)
        while self.serverstate == 1:
            self.server.handle_request()
            
    def Save(self):
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        pcinfohandler.SetInfoAll()
        
    def ShutDown(self):
        self.serverstate = 0
        functionhandler = FunctionHandler()
        for op in functionhandler.ListOnlinePlayers():
            op.Close()
            
        sdsock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        sdsock.connect(self.address)
        sdsock.close()
        
class RequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        clienthandlerthread = ClientHandler(self.request)
        clienthandlerthread.start()
        
class ClientHandler(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self, sockobj):
        self.clienthandlerstate = 1
        self.sockobj = sockobj
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, None, self.Recv)
        
    def Recv(self):
        datahandler = DataHandler()
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        while self.clienthandlerstate == 1 and self.sockobj:
            try:
                data = self.sockobj.recv(1024)
                returnvalue = datahandler.Start(data, self)
                if returnvalue != 0:
                    self.pcserial = returnvalue[0]
                    self.pcname = returnvalue[1]
                    self.pcpass = returnvalue[2]
                    self.pcx = returnvalue[3]
                    self.pcy = returnvalue[4]
                    self.pcz = returnvalue[5]
                    self.pcdir = returnvalue[6]
                    
            except:
                self.clienthandlerstate = 0
                pcinfohandler.SetInfoSingle(self.pcserial, 
self.pcname, self.pcpass, self.pcx, self.pcy, self.pcz, self.pcdir)
                ohandler = OHandler()
                ohandler.WriteO('Player '+ self.pcname +' logged 
off!')
                
    def Close(self):
        self.sockobj.close()
        self.clienthandlerstate = 0
        
class DataHandler:
    def Start(self, data, clienthandlerthread):
        self.converteddata = binascii.b2a_hex(data)
        self.clienthandlerthread = clienthandlerthread
        if self.converteddata[:4] == 'fe01':
            returnvalue = self.HandlePacketfe01()
            return returnvalue

        else:
            return 0
        
    def HandlePacketfe01(self):
        conversionhandler = ConversionHandler()
        pcserial = conversionhandler.ConvertHexToInt
(self.converteddata[8:16])
        pcname = conversionhandler.ConvertHexToStr(self.converteddata
[24:340])
        pcpass = conversionhandler.ConvertHexToStr(self.converteddata
[1116:1190])
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        returnvalue = pcinfohandler.GetInfo(pcserial)
        functionhandler = FunctionHandler()
        ohandler = OHandler()
        if returnvalue != 0:
            if functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 0:
                self.clienthandlerthread.sockobj.close()
                self.clienthandlerthread.clienthandlerstate = 0
                return 0
            
            elif functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 1:
                ohandler.WriteO('Player '+ pcname +' logged on from 
client address: '+ str(self.clienthandlerthread.sockobj.getsockname
()))
                return returnvalue
            
        elif returnvalue == 0:
            if functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 0:
                self.clienthandlerthread.sockobj.close()
                self.clienthandlerthread.clienthandlerstate = 0
                return 0
            
            elif functionhandler.CheckPass(pcserial, pcpass) == 1:
                ohandler.WriteO('Player '+ pcname +' logged on from 
client address: '+ str(self.clienthandlerthread.sockobj.getsockname
()))
                return [pcserial, pcname, pcpass, 554, 576, 0, 0]
            
class FunctionHandler:
    def CheckPass(self, pcserial, pcpass):
        pcinfohandler = PCInfoHandler()
        returnvalue = pcinfohandler.GetInfo(pcserial)
        if returnvalue != 0:
            for pcinfo in returnvalue:
                for op in self.ListOnlinePlayers():
                    if op.pcpass != pcpass or pcinfo[2] != pcpass:
                        return 0
                    
                    elif pcinfo[2] == pcpass:
                        return 1
                    
        elif returnvalue == 0 and self.FindOnlinePlayerByPCSerial
(pcserial) != 0:
            return 0

        elif returnvalue == 0 and self.FindOnlinePlayerByPCSerial
(pcserial) == 0:
            return 1
        
    def ListOnlinePlayers(self):
        oplist = []
        for threadobj in threading.enumerate():
            try:
                threadobj.pcserial
                oplist.append(threadobj)
                
            except:
                pass
            
        return oplist

    def FindOnlinePlayerByPCSerial(self, pcserial):
        if self.ListOnlinePlayers() == []:
            return 0

        else:
            for op in self.ListOnlinePlayers():
                if op.pcserial == pcserial:
                    return op

                else:
                    return 0
                
class PCInfoHandler:
    def CheckFile(self):
        pdisfile = os.path.isfile(os.getcwd() +'\\data\\pc.dat')
        if pdisfile == 0:
            writepd = open(os.getcwd() +'\\data\\pc.dat', 'w')
            writepd.write('[]')
            writepd.close()
        
    def GetInfo(self, pcserial):
        readpd = open(os.getcwd() +'\\data\\pc.dat', 'r')
        pcinfolist = readpd.readline()
        readpd.close()
        try:
            pcinfolist = eval(pcinfolist)
            if pcinfolist == []:
                return 0
            
            else:
                for pcinfo in pcinfolist:
                    if pcinfo[0] != pcserial:
                        return 0
                    
                    elif pcinfo[0] == pcserial:
                        return pcinfo
                    
        except:
            ohandler = OHandler()
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read pc.dat')
            
    def SetInfoSingle(self, pcserial, pcname, pcpass, pcx, pcy, pcz, 
pcdir):
        readpd = open(os.getcwd() +'\\data\\pc.dat', 'r')
        pcinfolist = readpd.readline()
        readpd.close()
        try:
            pcinfolist = eval(pcinfolist)
            for pcinfo in pcinfolist:
                if pcinfo[0] != pcserial:
                    pcinfolist.append[[pcserial, pcname, pcpass, pcx, 
pcy, pcz, pcdir]]

                elif pcinfo[0] == pcserial:
                    pcinfolist.remove(pcinfo)
                    pcinfolist.append[[pcserial, pcname, pcpass, pcx, 
pcy, pcz, pcdir]]

        except:
            ohandler = OHandler()
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read pc.dat')
            
        writepd = open(os.getcwd() +'\\data\\pc.dat', 'w')
        writepd.write(str(pcinfolist))
        writepd.close()
        
    def SetInfoAll(self):
        readpd = open(os.getcwd() +'\\data\\pc.dat', 'r')
        pcinfolist = readpd.readline()
        readpd.close()
        try:
            pcinfolist = eval(pcinfolist)
            for pcinfo in pcinfolist:
                functionhandler = FunctionHandler()
                for op in functionhandler.ListOnlinePlayers():
                    if op.getName() == pcinfo[0]:
                        pcinfolist.remove(pcinfo)
                        pcinfolist.append[[op.pcserial, op.pcname, 
op.pcpass, op.pcx, op.pcy, op.pcz, op.pcdir]]

        except:
            ohandler = OHandler()
            ohandler.WriteO('Couldn\'t read pc.dat')
            
        writepd = open(os.getcwd() +'\\data\\pc.dat', 'w')
        writepd.write(str(pcinfolist))
        writepd.close()
        
class IHandler:
    def ReadI(self, serverthread):
        ihandlerstate = 1
        ohandler = OHandler()
        functionhandler = FunctionHandler()
        while ihandlerstate == 1:
            input = raw_input()
            if input == 'c':
                ohandler.WriteO('Input: c')
                ohandler.WriteO('Valid commands:')
                ohandler.WriteO('c -- show this list')
                ohandler.WriteO('o -- show online players')
                ohandler.WriteO('a -- save')
                ohandler.WriteO('s -- shut down')
                
            elif input == 'o':
                ohandler.WriteO('Input: o')
                ohandler.WriteO('Online players:')
                opstr = ''
                for op in functionhandler.ListOnlinePlayers():
                    if len(opstr) < len
(functionhandler.ListOnlinePlayers()) - 1:
                        opstr = opstr + op.pcname +', '

                    else:
                        opstr = opstr + op.pcname

                if opstr != '':
                    ohandler.WriteO(opstr)

                elif opstr == '':
                    ohandler.WriteO('No players are online!')
                    
            elif input == 'a':
                ohandler.WriteO('Input: a')
                ohandler.WriteO('Saving...')
                serverthread.Save()
                ohandler.WriteO('...finished!')
                
            elif input == 's':
                ohandler.WriteO('Input: s')
                ohandler.WriteO('Shutting down...')
                serverthread.ShutDown()
                ihandlerstate = 0
                ohandler.WriteO('...finished!')
                
class ConversionHandler:
    def ConvertHexToInt(self, hex):
        while hex[0] == '0':
            hex = hex[1:]
            
        int = string.atoi(hex, 16)
        return int
    
    def ConvertHexToStr(self, hex):
        hex = string.replace(hex, '00', '')
        str = binascii.a2b_hex(hex)
        return str
    
program = Program()
program.Start()

ok now the two questions i have at the moment are: 

1)how can i shut dwon the server right? (see Server class)
2)how can i find out right if i a client disconected? (see 
ClientHandler class)

thanks in advance,

Max

P.S. I know it's a very very bad scripted:), you don't need to tell 
me that:)




From holger at trillke.net  Sun Mar 24 15:44:28 2002
From: holger at trillke.net (holger at trillke.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:44:28 +0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
In-Reply-To: <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:13:14PM -0500
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020324214428.H12768@prim.han.de>

> > You really want to know it? I am currently working
> > on (coded) agents which move through the network.
> 
> "The network"?  Which one?  The Internet, or an internal
> network over which you have full control?  Who controls
> the servers on which these agents will be running?

well. at the moment the servers are under my control.
but this is hopefully going to change. 

> > But of course i'd sometimes like to shut down some or
> > all agent-threads. 
> 
> Run them in a separate process and kill the process when
> it's "sometime"?  If you can live without individual
> control.  Maybe you can identify groups of them?

As Boudewijn pointed out this would lead to the problem
of managing interprocess communication. One of the reasons i am
developing this system is to _avoid_ having interprocess
communication and/or remote references that bloats and complicates
the system. 

In fact it is quite hard to group the agent-threads because they are very
autonomous (and btw quite cooperative with other agents). 
And I just wanted to deploy a "kill-agent"
that manages to shutdown certain or all Agent-threads. 

thanks for your replies so far!

	holger




From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sat Mar 30 09:51:27 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:51:27 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>              <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>  <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <016d01c1d7fa$c679ee40$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org>
To: "David Abrahams" <david.abrahams at rcn.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>; <python-dev at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type


> > > [David Abrahams]
> > > >       6) Should we eventually remove the inheritance
relationship
> > > >          between Int and Bool?
> > > >
> > > > I hope so. Bool is-a Int doesn't seem like the right
relationship to
> > > > me, unless perhaps we make Int is-a Long... naah, not even then.
> > >
> > > Hm.  In your favorite language bool is one of the integral types.
> > > Doesn't that imply pretty much the same thing?
> >
> > Well, I try not to play favorites <0.002 wink>, but the implicit
> > conversion rules in C++ are admittedly and unfortunately liberal.
> > However, bool is detectably NOT derived from int in C++:
> >
> >     void f(int const&);
> >     f(false); // error!
> >     assert(boost::is_base_and_derived<int,bool>::value); // fails!
>
> I don't understand this example, but I though int and bool weren't
> considered classes in C++, so I'm not sure this matters.

That's correct, they're not. Still, it matters that when you do type
introspection the system doesn't tell you they're related by
inheritance. I'm sure I've written programs that would break if that
answer suddenly changed. My point is just that "int and bool are
integral types" is a very different thing from "bool is derived from
int" (for another example, derivation implies one-way implicit
conversion from derived->base, whereas the numeric types are all
implicitly inter-convertible).

> I know you
> don't care, but C99 *does* consider bool an integral type.

As does C++, and why wouldn't I care?

> Another argument for deriving bool from int: implementation
> inheritance.  A bool must behave just like an int, and this is most
> easily accomplished this way: the bool type doesn't have
> implementations for most operations: it inherits them from the int
> type, which find a bool acceptable where an int is required.

I recognize that as the /only/ real argument for such derivation. Many
are suspicious of public implementation inheritance these days, tending
to prefer delegation so as not to expose a false is-a relationship,
breaking the LSP. However, I think bool may squeeze by on that count
since as I said it's immutable. Uh, whoops, no: the repr() and str()
functions, for example change the way it works in incompatible ways.

> > > Anyway, do you have a use case where it matters?
> >
> > Given that Bool is immutable, I have no cases other than examples of
> > type introspection which can be written to account for the fact that
> > Bool is-a Int. However, it does make certain things trickier to get
> > right:
> >
> > numeric_types = [ Int, Long, Bool, Float, Complex ]
> > for t in numeric_types:
> >     if isinstance(x, t):
> >         # Do something...
> >
> > This sort of thing could depend on getting the order of the list
right
> > (I didn't).
>
> Using isinstance() this way is usually bad.

Can you say something about this that doesn't invoke a moral judgement?
I don't believe in evil programming practices, just useful/fragile ones.

> And who knows that long
> doesn't inherit from int?

In Python, people make assumptions based on their implementation because
for details like this there is often no other guideline.

> (At some point in the future it may, or
> they may become the same thing -- see PEP 237.

Well, sure, anything could happen. Anyway, I don't have a strong
position about this issue, but it rubs my instincts the wrong way.

happy-as-a-wet-cat-ly y'rs,
dave





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 25 10:03:39 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 10:03:39 -0500
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7ne8b$cic$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list at python.org>,
Gilles Diribarne  <gdiribarne at udcast.com> wrote:
>
>2/ Programmers wants independence: some wants to manage building blocks 
>with spaces, other with tabs, some wants length = 4 with tabs.
>I would like to use my own programming style! But, my code risks to be 
>not supported by others.

Bingo!  That's why you should follow Guido style.  Like the tight
structure of a sonnet, what you lose in freedom of format, you gain in
freedom from thinking about format.  Really, it works much better; I
fought on your side for a couple of years before I Saw The Light.

>2/ Emacs and a great number of editors cannot indent region, since the 
>building blocks are only in programmer's mind.

Not true, AFAIK.  Have you tried using Emacs in Python mode?

>3/ A large number of programming language use this. C, PERL, Ruby, ...
>Why not Python?

Because those languages are not built on actual human factors research;
Python is based on ABC.  Find out some info about ABC before you make
further comments.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 23:12:32 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 04:12:32 GMT
Subject: win32 extension: rare PythonService problem
References: <rrui8.2150$P4.203427@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns91CD6455D4DCCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214> <a6gkop$r0i$0@216.39.172.122> <a6grvo$h4o$0@216.39.172.122> <clsv8ukee2njijfd0p5218uht1q0t9gvfh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6p7vg$tg$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:46:39 +0000, Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>On 10 Mar 2002 21:55:37 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>>[...]
>>>But I'd check the event logs (run "%SystemRoot%"\system32\eventvwr.exe) first
>>
>>Oops, misplaced quote, that won't work verbatim. Try
>>
>>    "%SystemRoot%\system32\eventvwr.exe"
>>
>
>Actually, either quoting approach works fine with NT/W2K.

That's interesting. I tried the first version on my system and got an error.
(That's why I posted my Oops.) The event viewer starts, but it complains that
the file name, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect, whereas
with the second version it comes up fine.

I have NT4sp3 on this box. Can you shed some light?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Fri Mar 29 07:03:26 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:03:26 +0200
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl>
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203291353040.8440-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Fused wrote:

> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone. 
> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
> 

Great! How about implementing Delphi to Python translator? 
Basically, you'll need to write a parser that reads Delphi (OOP) code and
then translates it to the corresponding Python code.
There are many yacc/lex type of packages already available that will ease
this job. I recommend PLY
  http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/

Regards,
	Pearu




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 18:51:38 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 00:51:38 +0100
Subject: Multple HTTPS requests over the same socket
References: <zPTf8.1226$en5.8772@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <m3k7svn8xh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Chad Maine" <chad.maine at broadlink.com> writes:

> I have class that opens an SSL socket to an HTTPS server in it's
> __init__.  I then call a class method to send the headers and make
> the request ( a 'POST') and return the results.  If I try to use
> that same SSL socket again for another request, I get nothing.  Is
> what I'm trying to possible or do I need to close the socket and
> open another?

At a minimum, it depends on the protocol you are using. You need to
use HTTP/1.1., and post a Connection: Keep-alive header, otherwise the
server will close the socket. The server may still close the
connection even if you request that it be kept alive.

Regards,
Martin



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar  3 21:30:55 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 03:30:55 +0100
Subject: Calling java servlets using python
In-Reply-To: <a5uf57+phjb@eGroups.com>
References: <a5uf57+phjb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020304023054.GB3682@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 04/03/02 ? 00:29, gopesh_sharma ?crivit:
> Dear All:
> 
> Please let me know how to call java servlets using python? 

You need to be more specific what exactly you want to accomplish.

Python is the client, the Java servlet is the server: use urllib/
urllib2.

Or did you have something else in mind?

> I need this help urgently.
 
:-X

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 0.4 ?C      Wind: 2.3 m/s



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Tue Mar 26 13:43:53 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:43:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>        <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>        <3C9FAF96.5DE9A0@bgb-consulting.com>  <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa1gb9.87e.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro wrote:
>
>    Don>   Are there any decent (finished/tested) Jabber libraries for Python?
>
>Don't know what its status is, but there is jabberpy:
>
>    http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/

It's LGPL, which may make it unsuitable for some projects (like the
standard Python library). But it seems to support the basic protocol.

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From sorry.antispam at address.net  Mon Mar 18 16:12:46 2002
From: sorry.antispam at address.net (sorry.antispam at address.net)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:12:46 GMT
Subject: Initialization of base classes
Message-ID: <52mc9u0ghanm3bg0ajt8aro58bqce6ki2s@4ax.com>

On pp 74 of Bealey's excellent book "Python Essential Reference, 2nd
Ed" it is written:

"When an instance is created [of a derived class], the __init__()
methods of base classes are not invoked. Thus, it's up to a derived
class to perform the proper initialization of its base classes, if
necessary"

Is this really true? If you have:

class A:
   def __init__(self):
      print "Class A"

class B:
   def __init__(self):
      print "Class B"

class C(A):
   pass

class D(A, B):
   pass

Then:
w = A() --> "Class A"
x = B() --> "Class B"
y = C() --> "Class A"
z = D() --> "Class A"

Hence, instantiating class C does in fact invoke the constructor of
class A, but not of class B. i.e., only the constructor of the first
base class is invoked. Is this a bug in the book, or a bug in Python
2.1?

And if it's not a Python bug, what is the rationale for only calling
the constructor of the first base class, and not the other base
classes?

...Edmund.


From amuys at shortech.com.au  Wed Mar 13 19:07:11 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:07:11 -0800
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net> <1p9v8u4vo4dqpccjsom40gtjlgtaiedve8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203131607.5800b1b@posting.google.com>

Michael Kelly <mkelly2002NOSPAM at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<1p9v8u4vo4dqpccjsom40gtjlgtaiedve8 at 4ax.com>...
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:37:00 GMT, jrc <jrchaff at mcn.net> wrote:
> 
> >Hi - I'm a reasonably experienced programmer.  I work in
> >Windows (ME). Thinking to give Python a try, I downloaded
> >v22 and installed.  At first, it looks good, but then, I discover
> >it seems impossible to get any scripts to run in the command
> >prompt, using any available documentation whatever.  I even
> >have Chris Fehily's book - essentially none of his examples
> >work with scripts from command prompt; yet this is a 2002
> >book .  (?!!)
> 
> Hi.  If you don't have any Python 2.2 dependencies or just
> want to try Python out you might find it less frustrating to
> download ActivePython 2.1.  For me(using Win98 2nd Ed.)
> even the Windows Scripting Host worked out of the box.
> I've even been using my COM servers on Win98 using
> ActivePython with no problems at all.
> 

On the W2000 box I have to use at work atm, I just installed cygwin
and included python2.2.  Gave me a decent cli, and python2.2.

Administrator at TTDEV2 ~
$ pytest.py
Hello World

Administrator at TTDEV2 ~
$ python pytest.py
Hello World

Administrator at TTDEV2 ~
$ ls -l pytest.py
-rwxr-xr-x    1 Administ None           39 Mar 14 10:09 pytest.py

Administrator at TTDEV2 ~
$ cat pytest.py
#!/usr/bin/python

print "Hello World"

Administrator at TTDEV2 ~
$ which python
/usr/bin/python

Andrae Muys


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Mar 24 15:36:45 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:36:45 -0300
Subject: yenc encoding?
In-Reply-To: <a7jf17$fb$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <3c9b8743.23437968@news.t-online.de> <a7jf17$fb$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <20020324173645.C20294@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> > Does someone work on a yenc-encoder/decoder for python? Both "base64"
> > and "binascii" are there in the python standard library, after all.
> > 
> > Just wondering: Should an implementation for a new encoding follow the
> > base64-model (that is, have four funcs encode, encodes, decode,
> > decodes) or the binascii-modell (a2b_yenc,b2a_yenc) or something
> > totally different altogether?
> 
> You might want to take a look at
> 
> http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/yenc.html
> 
> The guy seems to make very valid points.

-----
Conclusions

I, and others, have repeatedly pointed out what is wrong with yEnc, and
we have been ignored. Unfortunately, it has the big selling point of
smaller encoding, so getting users to accept it and to demand support
for it from their newsreaders has been remarkably easy, and yEnc has
spread across Usenet like a plague.
-----

Heh.. that's the real world. He should be helping yEnc's author to
integrate it into the MIME standards instead of writing such a long
critique. I could keep talking for hours about why SMTP, TCPIP, and
dozens of standards we use are "bad", but they implemented something
necessary at their time. If yEnc has spread across usenet, it's too
late.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Mar 10 19:58:49 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:58:49 -0800
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-D9E2B2.16584910032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C8BE537.74E55963 at mega-nerd.com>,
 Erik de Castro Lopo <nospam at mega-nerd.com> wrote:

> 
> Just recently I prototyped a relatively complex algorithm in Python
> before converting it to C. During this conversion I noticed that
> the modulo operator returns different results in C and Python if
> the numerator is negative. For positive values they produce the same 
> result.

Yes.  Python produces the correct results.  C doesn't.

Almost every time I use modulo in C, I end up having to fix it by adding 
the modulus if the result is negative.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Mar 29 20:48:32 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:48:32 -0800
Subject: runtime location discovery
Message-ID: <20020330014832.GF7602@isis.gerrietts.net>

I'm writing a program designed for maximal flexibility, with minimal
dependencies.

The other night, I tried to put in a chunk of code that allowed the
program to be executed from an arbitrary location (like a user's home
directory) without previously knowing where we were installed
(allowing the app to be installed wherever it seems most natural to
the system administrator).

The code I wrote did this:
    root_location = os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0])

Later, I could use root_location as a prefix in statemnts like:
    Image.open(os.path.join(root_location, "image/naked_chicks.png"))

or whatever ;)

That worked famously, but infamy was a mere logical step away.

When I created a symlink to the script, it went shopping for the 
resource files at all in ~geoff/bin/ instead of ~geoff/src/sp/.
Obviously, it didn't find them.

Now I can go look for symlinks and resolve them, that's not a problem.
But a hard link would create the same problem all over again. So I'm
curious -- this can't be an uncommon hurdle to hop. How have other
people solved the problem?

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>      http://www.gerrietts.net/
   "If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?" --Abraham Lincoln



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 12 16:26:10 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:26:10 GMT
Subject: english thesaurus and dictionary
References: <c4e6b17d.0203120905.757d5cd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Snuj8.31466$l93.6213476@newsb.telia.net>

Bob Roberts wrote:

> I want to incorporate an english thesaurus and dictionary into my
> application.  Does anybody know of freely available thesauri and
> dictionaries that I could use?

this might be useful:

http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/research/ilash/Moby/

    "Moby Thesaurus: 30,000 root words, 2.5 million
    synonyms and related words"

    "Moby Words: 610,000+ words and phrases. The
    largest word list in the world"

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From shomon at softhome.net  Fri Mar  1 04:34:03 2002
From: shomon at softhome.net (skoria)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:34:03 -0000
Subject: newbie lists and code examples for OOP.
Message-ID: <a5nhub+h9dg@eGroups.com>

Hi

Firstly: is there a better forum for newbie questions like this one?
It's hard for me to post to a high traffic list, and maybe there's a
local uk based one or one specifically aimed at newbies.

I'm trying to write a class where one function calls a method in the
same class. Right now I'm doing this with trial and error, and I don't
really understand where I need to put parentheses, use (self), etc. I
can't find any "functional" examples of object oriented programming on
any online tutorials, or any simple programs already written that can
be used as a good tool to figure out how to call functions within
classes in python, when to use self.* what internal functions (like
__init__) can be used for. Lots of theory on this, but no functional
examples.

Can anyone suggest any?

Thanks,

Ale






From brandon.rhodes at gtri.gatech.edu  Sun Mar 24 15:43:50 2002
From: brandon.rhodes at gtri.gatech.edu (Brandon Craig Rhodes)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 15:43:50 -0500
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
References: <mailman.1015973900.12906.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wuw1hf21.fsf@europa.gtri.gatech.edu>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> writes:

> All calendars are ridiculous. It should be very simple ...
> 
> 13 x 28 day (4 week) months = 364 days.
> 
> 1 "extra" day (new year?)
> 1 additional day in leap years.
> 
> IIRC this is the system that the shire hobbits used.

Not quite; the Shire calendar involved:

        12 months of 30 days = 360 days
        2 days of Yule (between December and January)
        3 days of Lithe (between June and July)
        + the Overlithe, added to the Lithedays in leap-years

More details and a rather attractive chart can be found at:

        http://www.shire-reckoning.com/calendar.html

> Why was this simple system never adopted?

Habit.

-- 
Brandon Craig Rhodes                         http://www.rhodesmill.org/brandon
Georgia Tech Research Institute                         brandon at rhodesmill.org


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 14:04:15 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:04:15 -0800
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: <x7664azyzy.fsf@ra.iago.org>
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
	<x7664azyzy.fsf@ra.iago.org>
Message-ID: <20020305110415.4115ca48.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:49:05 -0500
Justin Sheehy wrote:

> "Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:
> > Basically, I need to know if the order of destruction is guaranteed to
be
> > the reverse of construction when reference counts on the objects are
the
> > same (e.g., 1 on this case). Without this guarantee, I don't understand
how
> > Python can effectively use destructors - it falls into the same hole as
> > Java. For me, this is a show-stopper.
> 
> This makes no sense.

Actually it makes perfect sense.  He's asking if, when the reference counts
are all equal (in this case 1), the objects will be destroyed in the
reverse order they were created when the reference counts drop.

However, I agree that depending upon the order of destruction of an object
is a bad idea, and worse, won't work at all under Python.  I would consider
this sort of behaviour to be a side-effect and something to be avoided. 
While in the particular example given it looks like an elegant solution
(and would be, if that were the extent of the application - which I doubt
;), this type of logic in anything more complex is going to be at least
somewhat non-obvious and has no real benefit as far as conciseness (he
could avoid using the destructor altogether and simply have an end() method
which he calls explicitly - more obvious at the cost of 3 LOC).

I also think his assertion that Python can't effectively use destructors is
a bit overstated.  What he's really saying is he can't use Python
destructors in the fashion he intends.  However, I've always considered
destructors to be a method for cleaning up /after/ an object, not finishing
its function, which Python seems to do well enough.  I consider using a
method that claims to do one thing (in this case, destruction of an object)
to sneak in something unrelated is a bad idea.
 
Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From aahz at panix.com  Fri Mar  1 09:50:19 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 06:50:19 -0800
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex@netWindows.org> <Xns91C39C93F933Edenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.23> <uvgcgwq1a.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a5o4fb$cbu$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <uvgcgwq1a.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net> wrote:
>Dennis Roark <denro at NSPAMearthlink.net> writes:
>>
>> The Python book appears substantially based on the templates of
>> their previous books.
>
>Certainly the first draft of chapter 2 that I reviewed[0] looked
>suspiciously like the corresponding chapter from Java:HTP.  That went
>back with a lot of red ink on it...

All right, let me ask: are there any reviewers who think that PyHTP looks
like a book written by Python programmers rather than a book written by
Java programmers?

>[0] My, there were a lot of reviewers weren't there?

Yup.  A lot of *opinionated* reviewers, at that.  In all fairness, it's
pretty clear that Deitel paid a fair amount of attention to our
comments, but thought it was more important to stick with the style of
their existing books.  And, heck, they *did* pay well for my time.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 18 22:42:59 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:42:59 -0500
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
In-Reply-To: <3C972183.3050804@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELKOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Michael Hudson]
> I would ask those of you with access to the more
> unusual platforms (i.e. not Linux/x86, Win32/x86) to run test_math in
> verbose mode

[Gerhard H?ring]
> How would I do that?

python Lib/test/test_math.py

For example, on Windows:

C:\Python22>python Lib/test/test_math.py
math module, testing with eps 1e-05
constants
acos
asin
atan
atan2
ceil
cos
cosh
exp
fabs
floor
fmod
frexp
hypot
ldexp
log
log10
modf
pow
sin
sinh
sqrt
tan
tanh
exceptions

C:\Python22>

The last part ("exceptions") isn't normally run.  If it's unhappy, it will
blow up (raise some sort of exception).





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 04:18:33 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:18:33 +0000
Subject: PEP 285 bool types
Message-ID: <K4UjZVApfcj8EwyK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Any one know what the effects of introducing the proposed bool type will
be? 

I see it generating large traffic on the dev list, but what will it
really mean and will there be yet another great divide in python
versions?
-- 
Robin Becker


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Thu Mar  7 13:06:55 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:06:55 +0100
Subject: hexstring to string?
In-Reply-To: <a68879+ija7@eGroups.com>
References: <a68879+ija7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020307180655.GA1317@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 07/03/02 ? 17:32, maximilianscherr ?crivit:
> i made a function to convert a hex string containing character to a 
> normal string.
> 
> it looks like this:
> 
> class ConversionHandler:
>     def ConvertHexToStr(self, hex):
>         letter = 0
>         str = ''
>         while len(str) < len(hex) / 2:
>             nextletter = letter + 2
>             str = str + chr(int(hex[letter:nextletter], 16))
>             letter = nextletter
> 
>         return str
> 
> hex looks like: 414243
> 
> but why does it not work?
 
It does work correctly. Btw. you could have just used binascii.unhexlify
from the Python standard library.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 10.3 ?C      Wind: 5.5 m/s



From henrik.motakef at web.de  Mon Mar 11 17:53:24 2002
From: henrik.motakef at web.de (Henrik Motakef)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 23:53:24 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <3C8CC0CE.50509@geneva-link.ch>
Message-ID: <871yeq4syj.fsf@apo.hmotakef.int>

Boris^2 <borcis at geneva-link.ch> writes:

> What sounds really like April 1st is M$ naming open source software
> (rather than, eg, Outlook or Windows) "potentially viral software".

Don't make them worse than they are.

>From Microsofts "Important Macro Virus tips" for Office on the Mac:

Q: Will the virus [Melissa] impact my Macintosh if I am using a
non-Microsoft e-mail program, such as Eudora?

A: If you are using an Macintosh e-mail program that is not from
Microsoft, we recommend checking with that particular company. But
most likely other e-mail programs like Eudora are not _designed to
enable virus replication_.

<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/office/2001/virus_alert.asp>


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 21 07:41:35 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 04:41:35 -0800
Subject: how to read full file into buff for re using?
References: <a7c32k$2l9g$1@news.cz.js.cn>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203210441.274ff21e@posting.google.com>

"Zoom Quiet" <zoomq at itcase.com> wrote in message news:<a7c32k$2l9g$1 at news.cz.js.cn>...
> i'm chinese python fresh men; help please!
> how to read full file into buff for re object using?
> such as:
> re.sub()
> ??!

import re
print re.sub(r"\bmen\b", "man", file("ni_de_message").read())


From joonas at olen.to  Mon Mar 25 16:34:41 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:34:41 +0200
Subject: python cgi problem
References: <1573b893.0203250317.693ef1dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F97F1.D9475BF5@olen.to>

etienne wrote:
> 
> hi there !
> 
> I'm programming such a cgi:
> step 1- user submits some data
> step 2- cgi validates data
> step 3- outputs a html file telling the user to wich url point to find
> output
> step 4- do the hard work.
> 
> the reason for step 3 is that step 4 needs to dig in a very large
> database, and may take lot of time
> 
> everything woks fine but output of step3 comes when step 4 is over and
> user needs to wait up to some minutes for his response.
> 
> cgi schema is as follow:
> 
> def main():
>    # 2
>    params = validate_params()
>    # 3
>    htm_out  = generate_output()
>    print htm_out
>    # 4
>    os.system(" python my_module.py params &")
> 
> I can see results of   print htm_out when os.system(" python
> my_module.py params &") is over
> 
> can i force htm_out output somehow ???

It is explained at
http://starship.python.net/crew/davem/cgifaq/faqw.cgi?req=show&file=faq02.005.htp
how to run commands in the background from CGI scripts. Also
sys.stdout.flush() might work for your purpose.


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 00:47:33 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:47:33 -0600
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
Message-ID: <15510.53493.198841.313608@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    mh> I would ask those of you with access to the more unusual platforms
    mh> (i.e. not Linux/x86, Win32/x86) to run test_math in verbose mode

Seemed like a good chance for me to get some exposure to the SF compile
farm, so I logged in, selected MacOS X, downloaded and built 2.2.1c1, and
got this when I tried the math regression test:

    ./python Lib/test/test_math.py   
    math module, testing with eps 1e-05
    constants
    acos
    asin
    atan
    atan2
    ceil
    cos
    cosh
    exp
    fabs
    floor
    fmod
    frexp
    hypot
    ldexp
    log
    log10
    modf
    pow
    sin
    sinh
    sqrt
    tan
    tanh
    exceptions
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "Lib/test/test_math.py", line 195, in ?
        test_exceptions()
      File "Lib/test/test_math.py", line 192, in test_exceptions
        raise TestFailed("sqrt(-1) didn't raise ValueError")
    test_support.TestFailed: sqrt(-1) didn't raise ValueError

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From lac at strakt.com  Sat Mar 23 11:07:29 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:07:29 +0100
Subject: How to get Checkbutton Handle? 
In-Reply-To: Message from mnations@airmail.net (Marc) 
   of "22 Mar 2002 15:05:59 PST." <4378fa6f.0203221505.5d18a75f@posting.google.com> 
References: <4378fa6f.0203221505.5d18a75f@posting.google.com> 
Message-ID: <200203231607.g2NG7Trq007099@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> This seems like an easy question, but that answer has proven fairly
> difficult. I am simply trying to get the checkbutton handle back,
> exactly the same way I do it with the Label or RadioButtons, etc. I am
> doing it this way:
> 
> self.allCheck = IntVar()
> 		self.allButton = Checkbutton(albutFrame, text="Check to select all
> test scenarios", state=NORMAL, anchor=W,
> 					variable = self.allCheck, command = self.select
> All).pack()
> 		print "allButton location is ", self.allButton
> 
> But I don't get the handle back. All I get is this:
> 
> allButton location is  None
> 

Yes.  Storing the result of packing is useless as you just found out, because
the pack method returns None.

Laura Creighton




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 20 13:13:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 18:13:42 GMT
Subject: Remove empty lines
References: <3C98C025.7741BA58@ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <a7ajgm$8q1$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:00:21 +0100, Kristin Skoglund <krists at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I am trying to make a script that reads javafiles and remove comments
>and empty lines. The script looks like this......
>
>def removestuff(file):
>
>    infilename=file
>
>    infile=open(infilename, 'r')
>
>    copyfile=infilename +".bak"
>
>    newfile=open(copyfile,'w')
>
>    str = infile.read()
>
>    str=re.sub(r"/\*\*\n.*\n*\*/|/\*\n.*|\*.*|\s*/\s*"," ",str) #This strips away comments
>
>    lines=re.split("\n",str)
>
>    for line in lines:   # Here I try to remove the emty lines
>
>        if line== '':
>
>            continue
>
>        elif empty:
>
>            continue
>
>        else:
>
>            tmp.append(line)
>
>            newfile.write(line)
>
>    infile.close()
>
>    newfile.close()
>
>...and everything works except the removal of empty lines. Does anyone
>knoe whats wrong?
>
What do you see if you do a hex char dump of the new file, where it
has "empty" lines?

Maybe you need to match on all-white-space instead of '' after splitting with \n ?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  1 04:04:13 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:04:13 -0600
Subject: ASV module, CVS modules
In-Reply-To: <3C7F4014.7090800@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLKEDKDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Michael Stroder wrote:
> John Machin wrote:
> > You 2: On Windows, either use forward slashes "c:/test_data.csv" (it
> > works!)
> 
> AFAIK this does not work on W2K anymore. I might be wrong.

As far as I can tell, you are.
I'm constantly using this ability on Windows 2000.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Mar 23 19:59:26 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:59:26 +1100
Subject: MS Sql Server
References: <788n8.60257$bj1.19179906@news02.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3C9D24EE.6C7636D0@optushome.com.au>

Chase wrote:
> 
> Wondering what the most accepted practice is, for communicating to Sql
> Server Databases. Is it the ODBC module ? mxODBC ? Is there an ADO module ?

You can use the mxODBC module but Object Craft have a Python interface
which is specific to MS SQL Server and Sybase - see
http://www.object-craft.com.au - but you may want to check with its
developer, Dave Cole, as to its suitability for production systems.

Tim C



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar 29 22:01:18 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:01:18 -0600
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (new proposal):
References: <mailman.1017347282.22449.python-list@python.org><cfcf4b0d.0203291435.d35e21c@posting.google.com> <20020329150225.7efdaf2b.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <004d01c1d797$401f2120$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Wells" <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net>
>
> Now which is cleaner?   I think the perceived need for this type of
> construct is a holdover from thinking in other programming languages
versus
> thinking in Python.

Bingo.  Like I said before, "clearer code" is not good enough.  The
advantage must be *overwhelming*, not just good.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Wed Mar 27 17:24:52 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:24:52 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions
Message-ID: <a7tgrl$ipu$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Hello
I was experimenting with Python 2.2's unicode strings and different encodings.
First, what is the best way to enter international and/or unicode characters
in your Python source? I can't just type the Euro sign and trust that it
is read as a Euro sign on another platform, because how does Python know
the character encoding of the source file!
So I'm using the unicode escape char syntax, but that is cumbersome
(where do I look up all my special characters?) and hard on the eyes.

I also have the following question:
what exactly happens when I type  "print u" in Python, where u
is a unicode string? for example;

>>> e=u'\u20ac'
>>> e
u'\u20ac'
>>> print e
?    (<--- this is an Euro symbol on my screen)

What charset does the print convert to?
I'm on Win2000, so when I type
>>> print e.encode('cp1252')
I get the Euro symbol. Does print automatically convert to the windows charset
cp1252?
How does Python know this charset, because in my syte.py encoding="iso-8859-15".

When I type
>>> print e.encode('iso-8859-15')
I don't see the Euro symbol, but some other weird symbol.


For your interest, below is the test program I'm using to generate different
encoded documents.
Interestingly enough, UTF-7 is not understood by Opera 6. IE 5 and Mozilla get
it right.

import codecs

euro=u'\u20ac'
atilde=u'\u00e3'

print 'The unicode euro symbol = ',repr(euro),'  -->  ',euro
print 'The unicode a-tilde = ',repr(atilde),'  -->  ',atilde

def getHTMLDoc(encoding):
 doc=u'<HTML><HEAD>\n' \
     u'<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;
charset='+encoding+u'">\n' \
     u'<TITLE>Euro sign etc</TITLE></HEAD>\n' \
     u'<BODY><P>EURO SIGN: ' + euro + u'\n'\
     u'<P>A TILDE: ' + atilde + u'\n</BODY></HTML>'
 return doc
def getXMLDoc(encoding):
 doc=u'<?xml version="1.0" encoding="'+encoding+u'"?>\n' \
     u'<root><euro>'+euro+u'</euro><atilde>'+atilde+u'</atilde></root>'
 return doc

def makeEncoding(encoding):
 doc=getHTMLDoc(encoding)
 codecs.open('euro-'+encoding+'.html','wb',encoding).write(doc)
 doc=getXMLDoc(encoding)
 codecs.open('euro-'+encoding+'.xml','wb',encoding).write(doc)


for enc in ['utf-16','utf-8','utf-7','iso-8859-15','cp1252']:
 makeEncoding(enc)
 print 'Euro symbol in '+enc+' is: '+repr(euro.encode(enc))+'  -->
'+euro.encode(enc)
 print 'A-tilde in '+enc+' is: '+repr(atilde.encode(enc))+'  -->
'+atilde.encode(enc)





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar  4 15:32:12 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:12 -0600
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
In-Reply-To: <a60ijn$al6h5$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.1015266376.28131.python-list@python.org>
        <a60ijn$al6h5$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <15491.55756.317544.534681@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> Is the permission model there even remotely similar to what I'm used
    >> to on Unix systems?

    Thomas> No, I don't think so.

I was afraid of that.

    >> I poked around posixmodule.c, but it makes next to no use of uids and
    >> gids.  As far as I can tell, Windows doesn't know about uid_t or
    >> gid_t, though it has a struct _stat type whose st_uid and st_gid
    >> fields are shorts, so I can work around the missing types.

    Thomas> st_uid and st_gid are always set zo zero under Win NT:
    Thomas> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt__stat.2c_._wstat.2c_._stati64.2c_._wstati64.asp

Thanks for the pointer.  This takes me someplace weird in the msdn website,
most likely because I'm using Opera instead of MSIE.  I'll have to fiddle
with that a bit I think.

    Thomas> Are you maybe looking for the _access function?
    Thomas> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt__access.2c_._waccess.asp

Perhaps.  On Unix, definitely not.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From jrchaff at mcn.net  Wed Mar 13 13:37:00 2002
From: jrchaff at mcn.net (jrc)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:37:00 GMT
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
Message-ID: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net>

Hi - I'm a reasonably experienced programmer.  I work in
Windows (ME). Thinking to give Python a try, I downloaded
v22 and installed.  At first, it looks good, but then, I discover
it seems impossible to get any scripts to run in the command
prompt, using any available documentation whatever.  I even
have Chris Fehily's book - essentially none of his examples
work with scripts from command prompt; yet this is a 2002
book .  (?!!)

I do have the path set (and yes, rebooted, etc) - I checked it.
It includes both the installation directory and the working
directory.  I started the cmd line prompt using the provided
icon, and also via a Dos Prompt (again, with proper path set),
followed by 'python'.  The interpreter starts up just fine and
works ( >>> 2 + 2  -> 4 , etc).  But, with a script in the
current directory (on the path too), a command,

'python script.py'

completely fails (syntax error).  This is the only way I
know - following the Fehily book and the sparse comments
in Python documentation - to execute scripts from the cmd
line. If v 22 is somehow different, it would be very nice to
point out to (potential) users.  I've also tried every permutation
of this procedure that I can reasonably imagine - with the
same result.

The only way I am able to get scripts to run (without which
python is just a toy) is to use 'Idle', load the file via "File Open",
then in THAT window, execute it, (!!), then back in the cmd
line I have to issue yet another command to get the prompt
back.  This is essentially an unusably awkward procedure,
for my use.  So unless there is some reasonably convenient
way to run scripts, python has no value to me at all.

I would very much appreciate someone telling me which un-
documented point(s) I am missing.  Thanks,

jrc



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Mar 31 08:59:44 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:59:44 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <mailman.1017474166.1514.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gEEp8.77869$Ou.56166@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote ...
> [Bengt Richter, on consuming vast quantities of memory quickly]
> > s = 'x'*2**30 would be a quick gig too. But it made me think
> > maybe one could write a sort of memory test (to exercise the
> > available python space, anyway).  Does python run out of memory
> > gracefully?
>
> Very.  You should get a clean MemoryError exception if you try.
>
> >>> 'x' * 2**30
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> MemoryError
> >>>
>
My laptop upgrade clearly takes my platform beyond the timbot conceptual
limit: it took about three minutes to start printing (I'm not thinking of
letting it finish) with no error message in sight.

the-point-is-still-valid-though-ly y'rs  - steve






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 26 20:09:31 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 20:09:31 -0500
Subject: Logging tracebacks to MySQL (was RE: hang in urllib.read()?)
References: <mailman.1017184602.14548.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7r64b$1ul$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017184602.14548.python-list at python.org>,
Nick Arnett <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
>
>At this point, my robot is being nicely stable, but now I'm starting to
>think that the real problem was time-outs, but I sure don't see why they
>would last for hours.  Aahz's suggestion of using timeoutsocket was right on
>the mark.  I am definitely seeing timeouts now, which are recovering nicely
>by simply starting over with urlopen.

Sockets are simply unreliable over any kind of external network.  I've
learned to use timeout code even for internal networks, just to be safe.

>And after a fairly hideous time figuring out how to come up with an
>appropriate error message and escape it for MySQL, timeouts are now even
>being logged into a table.  If anyone has an example of getting a full
>traceback into a MySQL field, I'd be grateful to see it.  What seemingly
>should work seems to somehow recurse a few times, so that backslashes and
>such get repeatedly escaped... at least in all the ways I could see to use
>the traceback module.  I gave up and up and I'm using sys.exc_info()[:2]
>instead, which is probably sufficient information.

You should only need to escape "'" if you're using straight SQL calls.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From joekm at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 22:58:25 2002
From: joekm at earthlink.net (Joe)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:58:25 GMT
Subject: trouble getting pdb to work within Xemacs on windows 98
Message-ID: <3CA3E656.80403@earthlink.net>

tried both the cygwin and native installs of xemacs.  Did a static link 
for the cygwin install (ln -s /lib/python2.2/pdb.py /usr/local/bin/pdb) 
and wrote the recommended batch file for the windows install and put it 
in my path (C:\py22 in this case).  Regardless of what I do, Win98 
either hangs or crashes outright whenever I try to run pdb within Xemace 
(meta-x pdb).

It's a laptop if that means anything....am I doing something wrong?



From mnations at airmail.net  Mon Mar 18 11:58:11 2002
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 08:58:11 -0800
Subject: PIL Headaches: Advice Needed
References: <4378fa6f.0203161652.7f28e23b@posting.google.com> <a711h2$4db$0@216.39.172.122> <7652139e.0203170045.3c143995@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0203180858.4ad5f8b3@posting.google.com>

This is the main error that I am seeing:


...
File "play2_copy.py", line 90, in createWidgets
  im = "Image.open("cs.bmp")
File "C:\Python22\lib\Image.py", line 960 in open
IOError: cannot identify image file


I have tried this with .gif, .jpg, and a couple of others and none of
the file types are recognized. Here is the code where the image is
imported:

canvas = Canvas(goFrame, width=400, height=400)
	im = Image.open("cs.bmp")
	im.show()
	canvas.pack()

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Marc


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 17:33:22 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:33:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Code Review!! (or bash!)
In-Reply-To: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B2B@SRM201002>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020301143322.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> Before I let it out into the wild, I'd like to know what you
> all people think about this toy. I know, there's xml.dom stuff,
> and xml.sax stuff, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around it,
> so I just started writing this out of curiosity, and now it's
> starting to feel useful. But "useful" is so subjective, isn't it.
> 
>:-)
> 
> Mind you, it only works for 8-bit chars, so there's a limitation.
> 

Verbose.  Nice.  The re.compile() where you buld the 'amp|lt|gt' string took me
a moment to parse, but other than that it reads pretty well.

One possible comment for future development.  The ENTITIES list must always
begin with ('&amp;', '&') or the encode_entities() function may hiccup because
it will encode say 'copy sign' to '&copy;' and then turn that into '&amp;copy;'.



From lac at strakt.com  Thu Mar 28 15:24:17 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:24:17 +0100
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000): 
In-Reply-To: Message from Jeff Shannon <jeff@ccvcorp.com> 
   of "Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:19:18 PST."
Message-ID: <200203282024.g2SKOHrq016811@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

I don't like the overloading of continue.  I'd go for a new keyword,
fallsthrough myself.  I fear that this proposal will lead to people
never bothering to learn about dictionary-based dispatching, which
will be sad.  On the other hand, I have been building parse trees
lately, where some sort of case statement would be useful. Was there 
some sort of ruling on PEP 275?  I'm not sure we should be starting
a new switch statement PEP until we have found out why the last one
was rejected.

On the fence,
Laura



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 11 23:51:35 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:51:35 -0500
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net> <slrna8p159.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E@engcorp.com> <924j8.19297$N7.4387774@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D8957.9A0BB9C0@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> In article <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Tim Hammerquist wrote:
> >
> >> Didn't you know? Microsoft invented Open Source!  ;)
> >
> > No, that was Al Gore!
> 
> Ya know, I've actually read the transcript of that interview.
> He never claimed to have invented the Internet, only to have
> been responsible for funding it.

I hadn't read it either, but I remembered the words quoted as 
"invented the information superhighway".  Well, searching on Google
(of course :-) using search pattern:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22al+gore%22+information+superhighway+invented

turned up this:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,39301,00.html which
discusses how the use of the word "invented" was, well, invented,
but that Al really did say he "took the initiative in creating
the Internet".

Furthermore, in a speech he gave in 1994 
(see http://artcontext.com/cal/97/superhig.txt), he claimed:

 "Incidentally, when I first coined the phrase "information 
  superhighway" 15 years ago, I was not prepared for some of the 
  unusual images it would ultimately bring into our language.
 "

Fascinating, really.

(Notes: I'm Canadian, but I like Al anyway, and the articles quoted
indicated that he really did play a significant role in bringing 
into the world much of the infrastructure we are using right now.)

-Peter


From fp at contact.de  Wed Mar 27 05:39:27 2002
From: fp at contact.de (Frank Patz)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:39:27 +0100
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203261910570.30840-100000@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGHKAHJGMPJEEAGPKENMGGAA.fp@contact.de>

> [...]
> Note for AIX users: there are still problems with AIX in this release,
> and there has not been time to repair them without fear of breaking
> platforms that currently work.  Hopefully by the time of the release
> of 2.2.1 final we will be able to provide a recipe that allows AIX
> users to build and run Python.
> [...]

Hmm, can someone shed more light on this issue?

	- frank
--
fp at contact dot de



From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 15:01:02 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:01:02 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrna8nesk.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>, phil hunt wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>
>>I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
>>C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
>>that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
>>Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
> 
> I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python, 
> e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems, 
> run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.

And I can think of several languages which are better than C++
for those tasks:  Modula-2, Modula-3, Ada, Bliss-32...

;)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I want to perform
                                  at               cranial activities with
                               visi.com            Tuesday Weld!!


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Wed Mar  6 13:51:30 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:51:30 -0800
Subject: Why KeyError ???
In-Reply-To: <7dee885c.0203061030.5626d5e@posting.google.com>
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com> <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <7xvgcabcti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7dee885c.0203061030.5626d5e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020306185130.GB20722@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Ozren Lasic (ozren_lasic at yahoo.com):
> Sorry, but I didn't get it.
> Maybe you can explain me on another example??
> 

This is all very interesting.

Consider this:

>>> a = '\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7'
>>> b = unicode(a,'cp1250')
>>> c = "abcde"
>>> d = unicode(c,'cp1250')
>>> a.__hash__()
-1420316064
>>> b.__hash__()
2044161023
>>> c.__hash__()
-1332677140
>>> d.__hash__()
-1332677140
>>> a == b
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeError: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128)


The only hypothesis I can put forward here is that the Unicode code is
trying to maintain a sense of the actual identity of the referenced
glyphs. I'm not familiar with the encodings that are under discussion
here, but I'm assuming that in codepage 1250, as in the default C
locale, the characters "a" - "e" refer to the same glyphs.

On the other hand, I'm guessing that in codepage 1250, the glyphs
referenced by "\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7" are different from the glyphs
referenced by those same bytes in the default encoding. In fact, the
traceback at the end there suggests that those glyphs have NO meaning
in the default encoding.

Consequently, the underlying unicode representation -- 2 bytes per
glyph? I'm not sure -- tracks the two strings differently. When you go
to hash them, the difference is exposed, but when you're looking at
them, they don't look all that different.

I'm not sure why the key on the dictionary would report "abcde"
instead of u"abdcde"; that's pretty baroque.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "I am always doing that which I can not do, 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     in order that I may learn how to do it." 
http://www.gerrietts.net                    --Pablo Picasso



From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar 16 00:31:38 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:31:38 GMT
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com> <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrna95m6h.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, Billy Ng wrote:

> Nothing evil here.  I have 2 reasons why I would do this program.  Firs, it
> is my TCP/IP concept class's project.  Basically, I want to try what the
> book tells in to code, but I notice it does not work the way it says in so
> many commercial SMTP servers.

What?!  

Things in the real world don't work they way they describe them
in networking classes?!?!  ;)

> Second, I have been unemployed for about 4 months.  My
> friend's company needs a program to verify the users who
> registered to their service.  They found out many registered
> users were using fake addresses.

The only way that will actually work is to send an e-mail with
some sort of unique ID in it. Require that the user reply to
the message. No competent ISP will allow outsiders to check
whether an arbitrary e-mail address is valid.

> I just want to try this program to see if I will get a job
> there.  That's all!  I really do appreciate if you would
> provide any info for me to complete this project.

Good luck, but it's going to be an up hill battle.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is this BOISE??
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar 14 22:37:54 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:37:54 -0500
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
In-Reply-To: <4f5k8.435$zT5.13755@news.itd.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEIKOEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

>> Depending on the definition of easy, this is the alternative I would
>> use.
>>
>> 	r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
>>
>> Of course, your milage may wary.

[Michael George Lerner]
> Doesn't quite work for me:
>
> >>> import re
> >>> r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
> >>> s = r.match('foo         ').groupdict()['foo']
> >>> s
> 'foo         '
> >>> len(s)
> 12
> >>>
>
> and I only want to match things that are seven characters long here.

If matches, e.g. 'foobarx' too.

> It does, however, match all of the correct seven character strings,
> and I'll have to remember that trick in the future.  Thanks!

If you can settle for a regexp that matches *at least* the correct strings,
'' would work too <wink>.




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar  5 02:35:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 07:35:58 GMT
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu> <7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <eppstein-A9DCEE.19590304032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <a61sgu$b3o$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:59:03 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <7xwuwrofhk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>
>> Usually the term "natural numbers" don't include zero.
>> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NaturalNumber.html
>
>I think "usually" is an exaggeration.  For instance, a better authority 
>than Weisstein, Ebbinghaus et al's _Numbers_ (Springer Graduate Texts in 
>Mathematics 123, 1991, p. 14) disagrees.

Natural numbers (1, 2, 3 ...) were the only numbers known to the Greeks until
Diophantus thought of fractions, about 275 (though Egyptians apparently had
thought of fractions with one as the numerator before 1700 B.C.). The Greeks
had no symbol for zero. It didn't appear until the fifth century sometime, when Hindus
introduced it. By the twelfth century they had negative integers, but Europeans
didn't catch up to that unitl the sixteenth century and Descartes.

... all this (paraphrased) according to Harriet Griffin's "Elementary Theory of Numbers"
(one of McGraw-Hill's International Series in Pure and Applied Mathematics (c) 1954, p. 1)
(It was a textbook used 1956 at MIT for freshmen, FWIW ;-)

FWIW again, Wordnet agrees also:

[23:32] C:\pywk\telt>wn "natural number" -over

Overview of noun natural_number

The noun natural number has 1 sense (no senses from tagged texts)

1. natural number -- (the number 1 and any other number obtained by adding 1 to it repeatedly)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From newsfroups at jerf.org  Tue Mar 26 23:28:56 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:28:56 GMT
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org> <slrnaa1g7h.87e.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <3CA14A4A.3030702@jerf.org>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> In article <3C9F51EE.5000203 at jerf.org>, Jeremy Bowers wrote:
>>This is in stark contrast to HTTP. HTTP thinks you're nuts. HTTP will 
>>fight you tooth and nail. HTTP is old, and hoary, and set in her ways. 
>>And XML-RPC isn't exactly ecstatic about being streamed, either.


> Well, jabber-rpc is just XML-RPC in a Jabber stream... :)

Yes, but it goes out in discrete chunks. Watch a jabber-rpc call, and 
and XML-RPC call, go by on the wire, and they'll look the same modulo 
some header.

Try to trickle XML-RPC calls over either system and it'll be ugly. 
(Uglier in Jabber, though, because you'll be consuming the entire Jabber 
connection while you're trying that.)

If you have control of both the server and the client, you may be able 
to set up an ugly fast RPC server. Just have it look for <methodCall> 
and </methodCall> while reading a TCP stream, and break the stream up 
that way. (Watch out to make sure that the server always responds in 
order, or tag them with ids.)



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Mar 19 16:57:29 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 15:57:29 -0600
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <A2F124616A415A90.905029C2E4C51EB9.602FB306F71F6138@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list at python.org>,
Steven Majewski  <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>
>
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> I understand Microsystems supports Java. Who does play the same role for
>> Python?
>
>Nobody supports "Java", although often someone supports particular
>implementations of Java. ( Sun supports J2SE SDK, Apple supports
>MRJ, and there are open source compiler implementations like IBM's
>Jikes. )
>
>-- Steve Majewski
>
>
>
>

I'm still looking for a way to get this point across:  the
answer to many questions is, "There's no such thing."  No
one plays the role for Python that Sun plays for Java.  It's
OK to ask; don't always expect simple answers, though.

Or perhaps people mean something by "same" that I don't
understand.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Tue Mar 12 02:59:01 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:59:01 -0700
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
References: <mailman.1015887440.17682.python-list@python.org> <c76ff6fc.0203111907.12122c8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6kcmi$3oq$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

John Machin:
>To make some sense of reported historical dates, one needs to guess
>based on the location, origin and mind-set of the reporter.

I always figured time code should use the parameters "latitude",
"longitude", and "attitude" (which rhymes better than religion :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From cce at clarkevans.com  Sun Mar 17 11:37:23 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:37:23 -0500
Subject: tty interface to a hashtable for script configuration? 
Message-ID: <20020317113723.A18074@doublegemini.com>

Hello.  I'm looking for a small module that would take
a hashtable for input, and allow the user to change the
hashtable entries (or after N seconds return with the
hashtable unchanged if no one is at the console).   Of 
course, this could get very featureful, but those are 
the base requirements.  I was wondering if anything like 
this is out there as a module.  

I'm sure it has been written 100s of times -- so rather than 
roll my own, I was thinking that someone may have done 
this already and is willing to share.  If it is not packaged
and someone is willing to share, then I'll package it.

Best,

Clark



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Mar 17 16:13:39 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 13:13:39 -0800
Subject: Pythonic Porter stemmers (Was: Re: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl  for performance?)
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a6tsnr$npd$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016233166.10632.python-list@python.org> <a715ns$ga9$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016353229.7268.python-list@python.org> <Bn%k8.4574$J54.497662@news1.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203171313.2dd938b9@posting.google.com>

"Van Gale" <cgale1 at cox.net> wrote in message news:<Bn%k8.4574$J54.497662 at news1.west.cox.net>...
> W.B. Frakes and R. Baeza-Yates. 1992. "Information Retrieval: Data
> Structures and Algorithms," Prentice-Hall, describes the Porter algorithm as
> well as a few other stemming algorithms.  The reference for the algorithm
> is:
> 
>   Porter, M. F. 1980. "An Algorithm for Suffix Stripping." Program, 14(3),
> 130-37.
> 

Martin Porter has a home page for his stemming algorithm.

http://www.tartarus.org/~martin/PorterStemmer/index.html

Read all the way through to the last line.

> Frakes mentions nothing about a patent on the Porter algorithm, and I'd be
> surprised if there were since it was pretty rare back in the "good old
> days".

Check out Porter's personal home-page. Given the comment about his
family buying him a comb after he first put his photo on the web, I
get the impression not of patent-royalty-rich but of
archtypal-English-academic :-)

> 
> I worked on a huge indexing project for a legal publisher, and we developed
> our own stemming algorithm.  It was much simpler than Porter, basically
> being the most obvious conflations (like remove "s" and "ies") which covered
> the vast majority of English words, and then a list of "exceptions".  Of
> course we had the advantage of 50+ editorial staff capable of proofreading
> the index finding new exceptions, but I still think that's a better way to
> go than trying to stem completely by algorithm.  As hard as the Porter
> algorithm tries it still make a *lot* of mistakes.

And of course once you had an exception dictionary, for a performance
boost you'd consider dumping into it the 10^n most frequent words and
their "correct" stems whether or not the stemming algorithm gave the
"correct" result or not -- wouldn't you?


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar  2 10:11:02 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 16:11:02 +0100
Subject: Possible to fake object type?
References: <3c80e76b@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91C5A538FB6E0cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote 
in
news:3c80e76b at nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de: 
> So: Is it possible to fake the type of a class or
> is it possible to magically override the method call "bouncing"
> to the base class ?

you can allways call the methods of on e of the supperclasses by
using:

Baseclass.method(self, args, ...)

it's the same you do in __init__ to initilaize base classes:

class Dockable(gtk.HandleBox):
    	def __init__(self):
    	    	gtk.HandleBox.__init__(self)

    	def dosomething(self, arg):
    	    	print "calling dosomething...",
    	    	result = gtk.HandleBox.dosomething(self, arg)
    	    	print "result = %r" % result
    	    	return result

...
    	    	

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From cce at clarkevans.com  Sat Mar  9 17:42:08 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:42:08 -0500
Subject: python wrapper for FreeBSD fdisk, disklabel, etc?
Message-ID: <20020309174208.A26209@doublegemini.com>

I was wondering if someone has written a wrapper
for FreeBSD's "fdisk", "disklabel", "newfs" and "mount".

If not, any suggestions/hints along the lines of using
os.system/os.popen would be fantastic.

Thanks!

Clark



From ray at rays-web.com  Sun Mar  3 18:29:23 2002
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 15:29:23 -0800
Subject: Newbie: import works ok if in base directory but fails in other directories
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0203031529.40914d77@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm reading "how to think like a computer scientist" and tried one of the
examples
which uses the "pickle" import library.

This is the program:
-------------
# picking example
import pickle
f = open("pickle.dat", "w")
pickle.dump(12.3, f)
pickle.dump([1,2,3], f)
f.close()
-------------

When it is saved as and run in the directory "c:\work\python\pick1.py" it
returns the following
output:

-----------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "pick1.py", line 2, in ?
    import pickle
  File "c:\dev\python22\lib\pickle.py", line 6, in ?
    Classes:
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'dump'
-------------

If I save the program to my base Python directory (in my case
c:\dev\python22\) and run
it everything works ok.

What do I need to do to get it to run in other directories?

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Ray Smith


From mzou at bu.edu  Mon Mar 25 01:42:28 2002
From: mzou at bu.edu (ricky)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:42:28 -0500
Subject: files and reading from them
References: <auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a7mgsp$gvh$1@news3.bu.edu>

not sure what you mean
but check out the "shelve" module


"Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I am writing a dictionary to a file, like so
> f.write(str(Info))
>
> and what it is writing to the file is the following..
> {'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}
>
> and if i write in two things, i get..
> {'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}
> {'IPrice': '2', 'IName': 'notworking, 'IDesc': 'annoying'}
>
> What i would like to do is pull a readline or somesuch.. and have it take
in
> the whole thing, and then just let me assign that to a empty name, and
turn
> it into a new dictionary.. like say
>  file.seek(1)
> //thats how i'd go to the first place in the file correct?
> X=file.readline()
>
> and now i can say print X['IName'] ... and its turned into a dictionary..
i
> am most likely going about this *all* wrong.
>
>
>
>




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Mar 21 10:05:58 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 09:05:58 -0600
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list@python.org> <A2F124616A415A90.905029C2E4C51EB9.602FB306F71F6138@lp.airnews.net> <3C996234.9090506@verizon.net> <mailman.1016688814.7930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <852630CB444A0E88.1C47E73805633E2D.6D8C67A72D42A034@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.1016688814.7930.python-list at python.org>,
Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=  <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:
>* Rich Salz <r.salz at verizon.net> [2002-03-21 04:31 +0000]:
>> 
>> 
>> Cameron Laird wrote:
>> >I'm still looking for a way to get this point across:  the
>> >answer to many questions is, "There's no such thing."  No
>> >one plays the role for Python that Sun plays for Java.
>> 
>> Hmm..  Both provide a reference implementation, both provide a community 
>> process for suggesting improvements (but still retain the right to do 
>> what they think best)...  what's missing?
> 
>Both just are 'infrastructure' for the company behind them, they don't
>make money directly from it.
			.
			.
			.
Rich's question is a reasonable one.  I recognize that
I'm a bit touchy on the subject.  My experience is that,
when people start asking this question, they generally
have more interest in accusing Python of deficiencies
than in sound engineering analysis.

So, for example, I've heard that Python isn't as serious
as Java because it's not possible to hire "Zope-certified
Python Engineers".  Sun does that for Java, Zope doesn't
for Python, therefore Python isn't as trustworthy as 
Java.

It feels to me like a species of colonialism to require
Python (for example) to do and be everything that Java
(for example) is, but also better.  I've simply never
had a conversation that started that way conclude in a
productive way.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 17 22:47:22 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 03:47:22 GMT
Subject: how to print class names, not references
References: <3C9544B5.47CD0918@pop.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <a73o0a$h61$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:36:53 +0000, "a.clarke11" <a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>I wrote a function of x, where later in the program x is substituted by
>class names. In the function, print x is used, but this returns
><__main__.Player instance at 0x38b1ce90> rather than the plain old class
>name that  I wanted.
>How can I print the name instead?
>Thanks for your help, Pythoneers...
>
 >>> class CwithClassName:
 ...     pass
 ...
 >>> c = CwithClassName()
 >>> c
 <__main__.CwithClassName instance at 0x0084AF40>
 >>> Calias = CwithClassName
 >>> calias = c
 >>> Calias
 <class __main__.CwithClassName at 0x0084B0B0>
 >>> calias
 <__main__.CwithClassName instance at 0x0084AF40>
 >>> Calias.__name__
 'CwithClassName'
 >>> calias.__name__
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: CwithClassName instance has no attribute '__name__'
 >>> calias.__class__.__name__
 'CwithClassName'

Does any of that help?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From michael.neuroth at freenet.de  Thu Mar  7 19:17:31 2002
From: michael.neuroth at freenet.de (Michael Neuroth)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:17:31 +0100
Subject: undefined symbols when linking Python into a shared library
References: <3C8540B5.E133D407@freenet.de> <m3zo1m4mfx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C88031B.8A0FB866@freenet.de>

"Martin v. Loewis" writes:

> On Linux, use "nm -D foo.so" to see the symbols exported by foo.so.

Thank you for the tip, now I can see, that the 'missing symbol' is
exported from the shared library:

  000a7bac D _Py_NoneStruct

Is there any difference for exported (data) symbols, when loading
a shared library with dlopen() instead of linking it 'statically' while
creating the program file?

> > What is the magic option to solve that (linker?) problem?
>
> You'll need to understand the problem first before trying to find a
> solution. I, for one, can only guess what is going on: most likely,
> your shared library really does not provide the symbol missing in
> _tkinter.so; this is probably not surprising, since the linker, when
> creating the library, had no clue that the symbol might be needed.
>
> In any case, it is a bad idea to incorporate libpython.a object files
> into a shared library, as this is non-PIC code.

That is true of course. Is there any possibility to create a shared
libraray for Python: libpython.so instead of libpython.a?
I have not found any option in the ./configure script.
Is there any reason against shared libraries?

Regards,

  Michael.




From bass at slinkp.com  Thu Mar  7 17:09:31 2002
From: bass at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 14:09:31 -0800
Subject: [OT] range() for unix shell
Message-ID: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com>

I've been taking some classes on various comp. subjects, including (currently)
unix/linux. We're currently doing shell scripting, which I've done before
but always kinda disliked, preferring our favorite snaky language.

Today, struck by the similarity between sh and python's for loops,
and facing an example which required us to generate a range of numbers
from boundary parameters, I wrote a sh range function. It works
just like python's range() function (allowing for
syntactic differences).

Of course now I'm expecting someone to leap forward and tell me
that some analogous feature is already built in to the shell,
but I haven't seen it yet.

Hoping it's useful to some of the unix/python people out there,
I'm posting my function below.

compare to familiar python examples:
>>> range(10)
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> range(2, 10)
[2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> range(2, 10, 2)
[2, 4, 6, 8]
>>> range(10, -1)
[]
>>> range(5, -5, -3)
[5, 2, -1, -4]
>>> for i in range(4): print i
... 
0
1
2
3


here's a pdksh session (also tested in bash):

/home/train18$ range 10
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
/home/train18$ range 2 10
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
/home/train18$ range 2 10 2
2 4 6 8
/home/train18$ range 10 -1 

/home/train18$ range 5 -5 -3 
5 2 -1 -4
/home/train18$ for i in `range 4`; do echo $i; done
0
1
2
3


shell-is-weird-but-handy-ly-y'rs,
  Paul Winkler

# FUNCTION BEGINS HERE
range () {
        # written 2002 by Paul M. Winkler, Brooklyn, NY.
        # I hereby place the copyright to this program
        # in the public domain.

        # This is a translation of python's
        # range function into shell. Tested with
        # bash and pdksh. Doesn't work in ash (no "let").
        # Instead of returning an array (like python),
        # it returns a string that can be used as a sequence.
        # Example: for i in `range 10`; do echo $i; done
        
        # Defaults:
        let start=0
        let step=1
        case $# in
        1)      # start and step are default.
                let stop="$1"
                ;;
        2)      # Implicit 1 step.
                let start="$1"
                let stop="$2"
                ;;
        3)      # no default used
                let start="$1"
                let stop="$2"
                let step="$3"
                ;;
        *)
                cat << END_USAGE
Usage: $0 [start] stop [step]
Yields a sequence of integers N such that start <= N < stop.
If start is not given, it is 0 by default.
Successive values increase by step.
If step is not given, it is 1 by default.
END_USAGE
		return 1
                ;;
        esac
        
        # NOTE: all following tests have variables in quotes.
        # This is to avoid cryptic failures if $IFS happens
        # to be set to "-"
        if [ "$step" -eq 0 ] 
        then
                echo "Invalid step size 0. Must be a"
		echo "positive or negative integer."
                return 1
        fi      
        
        # Different comparisons apply if we're counting up or down.
        if [ "$step" -ge 1 ]
        then
                op='-lt'
        else
                op='-gt'
        fi

        result=""
        let thisnum=$start

        while [ "$thisnum" "$op" "$stop" ]
        do
                result="$result $thisnum"
                let thisnum=thisnum+step
        done
        echo "$result"
        }



# END


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Mar 13 23:52:25 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 13:52:25 +0900
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk> <mailman.1016041282.5194.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r8mnsqd2.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Cliff" == Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> writes:

    >> Not everybody is as knowledgable as Mark, Even though we work
    >> on the superior Windows platform ;-)

    Cliff> And quite possibly because not many people using the
    Cliff> superior Windows platform <cough> have a C compiler
    Cliff> available to them.  Probably due to thoughtfulness on
    Cliff> Microsoft's part ;)

Yeah, if there's a superior Windows platform around, they sure seem to
have forgotten to put it on the market.  Beta test still?<wink>


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar 26 19:29:01 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 16:29:01 -0800
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee> <3CA10CA8.DFF48898@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <7x663iam5u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ingo Linkweiler <i.linkweiler at gmx.de> writes:

> I?m writing a diploma paper on rapid prototyping and python at education.
> I am interested in your experiences with python, too, including the time you
> needed to learn python.
> 
> - Do YOU think, it is more easy to learn python than perl, java or C++  or
> ..... ?

Perl may be easiest to do some simple things, but gets horribly
complicated as you try to do harder things.  Python is easier than
java and java is easier than C++.

> - What do you think about the syntax of Python? Is it easy to use, or do you
> have any problems with it?

Mostly easy.  There's some surprises like z=[[0,0,0]]*3 giving you
what looks like a 3x3 matrix of zeros until you try changing an element.
I personally find it inconvenient that there's no conditional expressons
or assignment expressions, but that's a subject of endless debate here.

> - Is here anybody who learned Python as first language?
Not me :)

> - Where do you see disadvantages of Python?
Slow execution, spotty runtime library, cumbersome C API, lack of
good debugging environment in standard distribution.


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 19 22:03:49 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 03:03:49 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <xRDl8.10641$Hz2.42334@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3bsdkw9wu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <vQOl8.11541$Hz2.47118@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C97FC23.1030702@skippinet.com.au>

Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Martin v. Loewis:
> 
> 
>>Subclassing may not be the right solution - perhaps it is better to
>>admit that ntmodule.c really should be different from
>>posixmodule.c. What do you think?
> 
> 
>    There is also a lot that should be shared, such as the docstrings, much
> of the argument parsing as well as many of the posix calls. Splitting may
> lead to more breakage when common patches aren't applied to both.

How about just using #include files here then?

>  It needs a way to specify the base generic
> posix case cleanly but then to allow platforms to specialise or remove those
> functions needing different implementations or which can not be implemented.
> In my own C++ work, I normally do this through subclassing.

It doesn't have to be *too* cleanly :)  Having little helper functions 
isn't too bad and could probably work - ie, think "pragmatically" more 
than "cleanly" :)

Mark.



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar 19 17:16:26 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 14:16:26 -0800
Subject: Dictionary Comprehension
References: <3mbe9usoufc2f5ppjmk7lh6ks71pgb45f9@4ax.com> <u663s674b.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <7xsn6w9pad.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> The "Parade of the PEPs" says:
> 
>   PEP 274 - Dict Comprehensions - Warsaw
> 
>     If we were to adopt dict comprehensions, this PEP says everything
>     that needs to be said. But I don't even want to think about this
>     for Python 2.3; I think it's way too minor a feature.
> 
>     This would be a lot easier to adopt if there was a working
>     implementation in patch form.
> 
>     Sometimes it would be nice if things like this could be defined
>     using hygienic macros or some other kind of preprocessor or
>     whatever, and imported from a module, rather than requiring major
>     hacking in the parser, the bytecode compiler, and the virtual
>     machine.

I didn't get around to replying when "Parade of the PEPs" was posted.

The Parade of PEPs response surprised me a little.  It seems obvious
to me that dict comprehensions should be in Python if list
comprehensions are, even if no one uses them, on general
considerations of symmetry and the principle of least astonishment
(i.e. I wondered why they weren't both added at the same time).

There are times when it's right to use more abstract grounds than
"importance" to decide to include something.  It's unlikely that
anyone has ever used the numeric literal 901472937 in any Python
program, but if for some reason Python could recognize every numeric
literal except for that one, we'd call it a bug even if the
restriction was described in Python's documentation.  I hope no one
would say Python needn't recognize 901472937 because hardly anyone
wants to specify that particular integer in a program and you can
always say 901472936+1 insead.

The idea of implementing dict comprehensions using macros is
interesting; maybe list comprehensions can be re-done the same way.

Also, if adding dict comprehensions really require "major hacking in
the parser, the bytecode compiler, and the virtual machine", then IMO
a code cleanup is needed that's much larger in scope than adding one
feature.  Certainly no change to the VM should be needed at all, since
the dict comprehension is equivalent to a for loop, and the compiler
can generate the exact same code as the for loop would have.  The
parser and compiler would need a patch, but I'd hope it wouldn't be
"major hacking".

That said, on pragmatic grounds I don't see any terrible urgency to
the issue, and if dict comprehensions don't make it into 2.3 it's no
big deal.  I do hope they get added sooner or later.


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Fri Mar 22 05:07:18 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 10:07:18 GMT
Subject: CGI, etc.
References: <mailman.1016770055.25259.python-list@python.org> <a7dgl7.3vs45c5.1@kserver.org> <XnCm8.734$d7.213146@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9m09g.1ic.gerhard@koesesoy.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <XnCm8.734$d7.213146 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, dsavitsk wrote:
> "Sheila King" <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
>> http://www.python.org/topics/web/
> 
> btw, the instructions linked to here for doing CGI on windows under iis are
> out of date (only covering 9*/NT).  For win2k (server and professional) see
> http://www.e-coli.net/mag.shtml (or http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis.html and
> http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis_server.html specifically)

I'd suggest to inform webmaster at python.org.

Gerhard


From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sun Mar 31 15:53:23 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:53:23 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net> <3CA75ECC.389A0186@alcyone.com> <2NJp8.140405$Yv2.43077@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <a87t36$gs6$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:2NJp8.140405$Yv2.43077 at rwcrnsc54...

> Someone (Guido?) already mentioned that testing for true is redundant,
> but doesn't :
>     if 2:
> imply
>     if 2 == True:
> which in turn then implies that:
>     True == 2
> is true?

Not exactly.

    if x:

would be the same as

    if bool(x):

(which is the same way it works in C++, FWIW).

-Dave




From ken at ineffable.com  Thu Mar  7 12:36:35 2002
From: ken at ineffable.com (Ken Causey)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 11:36:35 -0600
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020307093355.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <XFMail.20020307093355.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <1015522595.442.24.camel@temp>

On Thu, 2002-03-07 at 11:33, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> > 
> > I'm inclined at the moment to report this situation as a bug.  But I
> > wanted to get some opinions as I'm neither an SGML expert nor fully
> > confident of my understanding of the SGMLParser class.
> > 
> 
> I agree this is a bug because the class name is SGMLParser yet it is concerning
> itself with html tags.
> 

I'm not sure I understand this comment.  What tag do you mean?  All of
these are standard SGML tags as I understand it.

Ken




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 09:18:48 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=F5ring?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 14:18:48 GMT
Subject: shared memory block
References: <3C988A9F.51137D54@mathworks.fr> <3C988C67.2010008@bigfoot.de> <3C9893B2.53A8255F@mathworks.fr>
Message-ID: <slrna9h69t.1i8.gerhard@koesesoy.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <3C9893B2.53A8255F at mathworks.fr>, Boris Huart wrote:
> Well I am using a real-time system and I only have a Python library to get
> about 20 floats calculated on the platform. Then I have implemented a Java
> applet which needs those data to interact via an External Aauthoring
> Interface with a VRML plugin embedded in IE. My problem is how to make the
> python script and the java applet communicate together.
 
XML-RPC or a custom programmed protocol via sockets seems to be the way to go.
If you're using Python 2.2, xml-rpc is part of the standard library, else it is
available here: http://www.pythonware.com/products/xmlrpc/index.htm.

This is a XML-RPC library for Java: http://xml.apache.org/xmlrpc/server.html  

I think you'll have to do some tricks to work around Java's security model to
actually get an XML-RPC server running in your Java applet. I think you'll get
the best answers for disabling/working around that for the MS JVM in a
Microsoft Java newsgroup. Or maybe Google has some anwsers.

The only thing I can tell you is that the signed applet way is a major PITA.

Gerhard


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 21:57:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:57:57 -0500
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com> <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C92B4B5.ECA3DF43@engcorp.com>

Billy Ng wrote:
> "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> > Billy Ng wrote:
> > > I am trying to write a python program to verify the email
> > > address.
> >
> > What you're trying to do is pointless.  Whether it's evil or
> > not, I don't know, but one is suspicious.
> 
> Nothing evil here.  I have 2 reasons why I would do this program.  Firs, it
> is my TCP/IP concept class's project.  Basically, I want to try what the
> book tells in to code, but I notice it does not work the way it says in so
> many commercial SMTP servers.  Second, I have been unemployed for about 4
> months.  My friend's company needs a program to verify the users who
> registered to their service.  They found out many registered users were
> using fake addresses. 

I didn't think it was anything evil... I just wanted to know the background
because the answer is really always "it depends".  In this case, and as
you may learn from other answers (this has been discussed several times in
the last year, as well, if you care to search the newsgroup a little),
the *only* valid and effective way of confirming an email address is to
actually send an email to the address and request a reply.

I repeat, *all* other methods have various problems and do not, in general,
work.  They may work some of the time, but since they cannot be relied
upon there is no point wasting time trying to use them.  Send the email,
and if you get a reply then it's a valid address.  Alternatively, send
the email and if you don't get a bounce, assume it's valid.  Won't
make much difference in this case, it seems.

This is a parallel to doing exception handling in Python and similar
languages.  Don't check the parameters ahead of time, just try using
them but be sure to catch the exceptions in case they don't work.

-Peter


From tony.claeys at pandora.be  Sun Mar 10 11:12:42 2002
From: tony.claeys at pandora.be (tc)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:12:42 GMT
Subject: financial calculations
Message-ID: <MPG.16f5a2c7862e2392989681@news.pandora.be>

Is there a python module for financial calculations ? Using floats would 
give me too much problems with rounding errors.

Thanks in advance.


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 09:24:09 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:24:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D99139B3B66duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in 
news:slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net:

> known = []
> times = 0
> output = {}
> 
> for i in a:
>     if i not in known:
As the 'known' list gets longer, the check for list membership gets slower. 
A much better way is to keep a dictionary of the words (which you already 
have) and check for dictionary membership:
      if not output.has_key(i):

>         for l in a:
>             if l == i:
>                 times = times + 1
And this bit means that you loop through all your input again and again: 
once for every unique word. Better just to go once through the data and add 
1 to the count each time.

>         known.append(i)
>         output[i] = times
>     times = 0
> 
<snip>
> it seems it's slow not because of sorting...

Try something like:
for i in a:
    	if output.has_key(i):
    	    	output[i] += 1
     else:
    	    	output[i] = 1

Also put your code inside a function to shave a little bit more off the 
runtime. 

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 14:19:18 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:19:18 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>
Message-ID: <3CA36CB6.69D7A488@ccvcorp.com>


Ken Peek wrote:

>   A clause can be forced to 'fall through' with the use of a
>   'continue' statement, which jumps to the first statement in the
>   next match clause (because 'falling through' IS useful
>   sometimes.)

I don't think I like this re-use of the 'continue' keyword -- it seems to me
that the sense, in this context, is considerably different than the sense of
its use in a loop.  In a loop, it means "start over from the top", where
here, it means "run this one next bit too, but not anything else".

I'm not sure that falling through is a necessary idiom to accommodate.  If
the code that should be used for more than one case is significant enough to
be worth adding a 'continue' to get to, then it most likely is a good
candidate for extraction as a separate function that can be painlessly
called from both cases.

(My $0.02, anyhow.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 10:00:59 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:00:59 +0000
Subject: PyProlog 0.2.0 - compiling under Windows
References: <3d06fae9.0203140649.635d4b49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3PDcksArsLk8EweI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <3d06fae9.0203140649.635d4b49 at posting.google.com>,
jmdeschamps <jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca> writes
.....
>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "python21_d.lib"
>Error executing link.exe.
>
>pyswipl.dll - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s)
>*********
....
you might want to consider turning off debug compilation. Then you
should only need python21.lib which will be in the python/Libs area.

Of course you need to configure MSVC++ to look for .libs in that
directory.

Alternatively I believe that the debug versions of python21 libs are
available at www.python.org.
-- 
Robin Becker


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar  6 18:10:06 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:10:06 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:23:02 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
> I realize that's a different purpose than most working Python 
> programmers, but anything that leads to greater readability and easy of 
> understanding should be helpful in that world too.

    I fail to see how it is is greader readability or understanding when the
current method is both.  It may not be the /common/ way people expect it to be
seen.  However, people expect ; { and } quite often as well.  Thankfully
Python is devoid of those cumbersome constructs.  It should remain free of the
difficult to read (and overloaded) for statement as well.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 20:08:46 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:08:46 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015027510.14026.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-AE6CDD.17084601032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015027510.14026.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> I agree as I just remembered another issue that came up concerning the
> "for-relational" suggestion.  Namely, that the "for-relational" syntax
> doesn't handle step values for intervals.  So even though there would be
> new syntax, we would still need to use range/xrange in cases requiring a
> step value not equal to 1 or -1.

True, it doesn't handle step values, unless you count syntax like
[2*x for start <= x < end].  Neither does PEP 276, of course.
Nobody is proposing to eliminate range/xrange, I think.

I will see if I can find some time to work on a PEP.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Mar  3 15:52:38 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:52:38 +0000
Subject: new images from strings using PIL
References: <a5osud$nj1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <3C828D16.9020201@mxm.dk>

BL wrote:

> pixels = "1 2 3 4 5 6" //test pixels
> im = Image.fromstring("I", (2,1), pixels) //create a 3x2 image from pixels
> These values are obviously wrong.  Why isn't my 3x2 image being created with
> the proper pixel intensities?

I think that the function is just meant as a way to generate an image 
via a string, in lack of a better data format.

So the string is not a string of pixel values (pun inteded) but image 
data stored in a string indstead of a file.

Your string would probably look a little like this:

"GIF89aEUR
???!??&(?&(g(/&dg;"

Well actually it wouldn't. But the general idea is that the string would 
be how an image file like a gif would look like if opened in a text editor.

regards Max M



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Mar  2 13:13:23 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:13:23 -0600
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for
        numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <15489.5180.402637.125675@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org>
        <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
        <15489.5180.402637.125675@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <15489.5699.603634.319536@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

(Minor point of possible confusion.)

I wrote:

    Skip> According to the pow man page on my Mandrake 8.1 system it
    Skip> suggests that ERANGE should be set if its first arg is zero.  This
    Skip> appears to happen when x is around 1.5717e-162.  

"x" is the name of the first arg to pow() in the pow() manpage.  The actual
arg in floatobject.c:float_pow() is "iv".

Skip



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Fri Mar  8 20:34:29 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 01:34:29 GMT
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <a6b91d$oau$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8ipl5.bsq.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a6b91d$oau$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:
> but putting us in kind of a backwater.  If we sort of collectively
> agree on 2.1.1 (or whatever) for that role, though, that backwater
> could get pretty lively.

Seems unlikely; if people can't muster enough interest to participate
in handling bugs and patches in the current CVS tree, the likelihood
of taking on the even drier and duller job of backporting fixes seems
an order of magnitude less probable.  Unless someone can be found to
pay money for it, of course.

(I wonder why more people don't maintain forks of the Python source
tree for specific things like oddball platforms, though.  Right now
Linux is having a mini-explosion of different trees, some managed with
an eye for stability, some for including all the bleeding edge
patches; I don't think that would harm Python any.)

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
  "We're running out of places to run."
  "The story of our lives."
    -- Turlough and Tegan, in "The Awakening"



From ronny at cs.kun.nl  Tue Mar  5 08:21:57 2002
From: ronny at cs.kun.nl (Ronny Wichers Schreur)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:21:57 +0100
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at> <3C848DBE.CEF2A2F7@cs.kun.nl> <3C84A009.D0E65B6@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C84C675.FEA4D5AE@cs.kun.nl>

Siegfried Gonzi criticises Clean:

> [..] The problem in Clean: the array concept is not a tool which helps
> a programmer it impedes the programmer. The problem is not that an
> array has a type the problem in Clean actually is that it is impossible
> often to judge what is allowed and what not.

Part of Clean's type system is the uniqueness typing. This is what allows
destructive array updates, while keeping referential transparency. I
suggested that it was the uniqueness type system that you're feeling
uncomfortable with.

> [..] Clean does often not work correctly. [...]

It's hard to answer your criticism, because it's not very concrete. Maybe
there was a problem in your program. For example, there are index
out-of-bounds bugs in the Clean code you posted, which suggests that you
ran the program with run-time index checks disabled. This can give
undeterministic results. Or maybe there is a bug in the Clean system,
but you write:

> [..] I didn't contact any Clean developers,

You didn't report the bugs to us, yet you see it fit to portray our
implementation as completely unreliable. That's difficult for me to accept.

I suggest we continue this discussion by email.


Cheers,

Ronny Wichers Schreur




From maurelius01 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 17:12:55 2002
From: maurelius01 at hotmail.com (Marc)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:55 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <a7diqu$7am$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9A680A.F00216D2@hotmail.com> <3C9B8A4C.F7FB97FD@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BAC67.9BF9162D@hotmail.com>


Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> Marc wrote:
> 
> >
> > So here is my basic question: should I be able to
> > inherit class from another file.
> 
> Yes, you can do this.  I do it all the time.  And the way that you're doing it is
> indeed correct -- just refer to the base class by its properly qualified name.
> 
> I have no idea why you're having a problem, but then, I missed your initial post.
> Are you getting an exception?  If so, you might try posting the stack trace...
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International

Thanks Jeff -
It's good to know that it can work.  It does seem
reasonable.  Do you use reload?  This seems to be
part of my problem, but I find it tough to
develope without it.  I've reposted a simplified
example, and hopefully with no typos this time.
Marc


From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 13:21:44 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 10:21:44 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1016173476.645562@yasure>
Message-ID: <2b57f654.0203151021.7f709e4c@posting.google.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<1016173476.645562 at yasure>...
> Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
> ...
> | When select returns a file descriptor, that means that read()
> | won't block.  If only a partial line is available, then
> | readline() will still block.  I doubt that this is going to be
> | an issue, since your output is probably line-oriented.

That concerns me, because in many cases, it will not be line-oriented.
 I need a general tool.  I cannot be sure about endlines in general,
although for this case, of course I chose readline() because I am
sure.
If it is not line-oriented, must I then use select.select combined
with read(1) and go character by character?
That reminds me, is there a way to get the integer value of a
character in Python analogous to casting a char to an int in C?

> 
> That's a good point.
> 
> The complementary problem, of course, is that once you have invoked
> readline(), it will read all the data available on the file descriptor,
> or a lot of it anyway, and return only the first line.  The next time,
> it will return the next line from its buffer, but you have no way to
> know that it has another line waiting there.  select() can't see it.
> There are solutions, I think the easiest thing in most cases is to
> throw away the file object and just use the file descriptor (fileno())
> (or sockets in this case.)

This is even more frightening.  I don't want to lose any data!  How
can I protect myself from this?  Why is using the file descriptor
better?
Thanks for the help, good people!


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar  4 14:18:29 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:18:29 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-145FF7.08215401032002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C82BABF.B632A4FB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3C83C368.3B98FEC8@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-6874DB.11182904032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C83C368.3B98FEC8 at ccvcorp.com>,
 Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

> I believe that Tim's comment was regarding how "for 3 < i < 10" would be
> parsed.

That was also how I interpreted it.

> I vaguely recall a discussion, from the first time around, that the
> parser will grab "for 3" and then choke on the rest.  It would require
> significant modifications to the parser to have it read the entire line and
> then analyze it.  This amount of work has been deemed not justifiable for the
> (questionable) benefits of having this construct.

Deemed by whom?

It seems like it should be really easy to modify the parser to parse
    "for" expression ":"
and then check whether the expression is an "in" or a comparison...

> Of course, this is my vague memories, and could be totally wrong.  Having a
> PEP to archive things like this would be nice (even though I'd be hoping that
> it gets rejected).

I've started working on one.

I'd like to know why you think it should be rejected, so that I can include 
all relevant views in the discussion section.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From jicondon at us.ibm.com  Tue Mar  5 14:14:42 2002
From: jicondon at us.ibm.com (dW)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 11:14:42 -0800
Subject: Python SOAP libraries - With and without WSDL
Message-ID: <mailman.1015355883.11000.clpa-moderators@python.org>

IBM developerWorks released it second article on Python and SOAP:
Continuing their look at Python SOAP implementations, Mike Olson and
Uche Ogbuji put the Zolera SOAP Infrastructure (ZSI) through its paces
as a SOAP client and server library. They find that ZSI is possibly
the best tool for SOAP use under Python right now.
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth6?open&l=968,t=grws,p=py2



From jcromwell at ciena.com  Fri Mar 15 13:43:20 2002
From: jcromwell at ciena.com (Cromwell, Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:43:20 -0800
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
Message-ID: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00249@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>

>From Python Library Reference, section 2.2.3 Comparisons

<> and != are alternate spellings for the same operator. (I couldn't choose
between ABC and C! :-)  != is the preferred spelling; <> is obsolescent.

-Jeremy Cromwell

-----Original Message-----
From: josephgrossberg at hotmail.com [mailto:josephgrossberg at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:13 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators


Is there any effective difference between the two?

(Sorry if this has already been addressed; it's difficult to search on
punctuation.)

>>> name = "joe"
>>> name <> 'Joe'; name != 'Joe'; name <> 'joe'; name != 'joe'
1
1
0
0

Doesn't this violate the Python principle that " There should be
one--and preferably only one--obvious way to do it." if I'm
interpreting that correctly?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From emile at fenx.com  Tue Mar 26 16:28:08 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:28:08 -0800
Subject: Most efficient unzip - inverse of zip?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203262231570.27212-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <a7qpfm$mnlma$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Pearu Peterson
> What would be the most efficient way to unzip zipped sequences 
> in Python 2.2?
> 
> For example, consider
> 
>  a_b = zip(a,b)  # where a and b are some sequences
>  a_b.sort()
>  a,b = unzip(a_b)
>

You'd need to define efficient better, but I'd try something like:

>>> z = zip(range(52),string.letters)
>>> a = [ii for ii,jj in z]
>>> b = [jj for ii,jj in z]

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From bmeerdnk at telekabel2.nl  Mon Mar 25 17:58:08 2002
From: bmeerdnk at telekabel2.nl (Bart Meerdink)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 14:58:08 -0800
Subject: Is it really so difficult to enable Tkinter?
Message-ID: <f6e6d4dd.0203251458.25ded181@posting.google.com>

(Warning: I'm a bit of a Python-newbie)

After following the standard configure/make/make install procedure for
python 2.2.1c1  (newer is always better, you know) on SuSE Linux, I
found that tkinter would not work ("no module named _tkinter").

I tried again, installed the tck/tk 8.3.3 headers, did configure,
edited Modules/Setup (paragraph about tkinter, guessing what I should
change there), crossed my fingers, and continued with make and (as
root) make install. Success!

But I cannot believe this is the intended way.

And sadly, the nice ActiveState rpm distribution, which worked out of
the box, seems not to be maintained anymore.

One more question: is it on purpose that idle is left out?

Bart Meerdink


From oscar at westlakefinancial.com  Thu Mar 14 19:56:59 2002
From: oscar at westlakefinancial.com (Oscar)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 16:56:59 -0800
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work                    Sincerly, F
Message-ID: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com>

Dear Guru,

I have added 

def joinsplit = (join(split(lines, '"'), ' '))
        return joinsplit

to watch.txt in an effort to replace " and / with " " to no avail. Old
watch.txt works fine, without my new def.
 
Please help.

Sincerly,

     ''''\     
    ` c-@@     
    `    >     
     \_ ^
      
Frustrated and Hostile.    p.s. how far can computers fly if thrown
out a window ??




line from watch.txt ( data change to protect the indecent or innocent)

7036718,"756-74-6445","04/04/74","(555) 555-0707","(555)
555-0002","829","E PATOR ST","CHANDLER","AZ","85225","HOLE, MICHELE
M."

________________________________________________________________________________
#!/usr/bin/python

# Script is for "batch alternate input request for TRANS UNION.
# for use with a file generated from an I.Q. report from Megasys.
# watch.py version 0.3 date: Mar 12 2002  by Oscar

# new def -- the one not working
##############################################
def joinsplit = (join(split(lines, '"'), ' '))
        return joinsplit

## old stuff works fine
#############################################
def fixdate(date):
        """This is a method to format the date properly"""
        stringdate = str(date)
        year = stringdate[6:]
        month = stringdate[:2]
        day = stringdate[3:5]
        return year + month + day


def paddfield(field,length):
        padded = field + (" "*(length-len(field)))
        return padded


def fixnumeric(field,length):
        """remove garbage characters and also pads"""
        stringfield = str(field)
        fixedfield = ''
        for char in stringfield:
                if char in ('0','1','2','3','4','5','6','7','8','9'):
                        fixedfield = fixedfield + char
        padded = fixedfield + (" "*(length-len(fixedfield)))
        return padded


file=open("watch.txt")
lines = file.readlines()
for line in lines:
        list = eval('[' + line + ']')
        """subscriber specific information"""
        list.append("F ")
        list.append("0254438")
        list.append("ZN95")
        list.append("1258")

        formatted = str(list[0]) + str(list[1]) + fixdate(list[2]) +
joinsplit.fixnumeric(list[3],10) + joinsplit.fixnumeric(list[4],10) +
fixnumeric(list[5],5) + joinsplit.paddfield(list[6],30) +
paddfield(list[7],16) + list[8] + fixnumeric(list[9],9) +
paddfield(list[10],50) + list[11] + list[12] +  list[13] + list[14]

        print formatted


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar 18 15:40:38 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:40:38 -0800
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru> <a71k8k$o02$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>
Message-ID: <3C9650C6.6427FA27@ccvcorp.com>


Jeffrey-man wrote:

> Thank you very much!
> Here it is the final version:

This is good, but there's a few improvements that could be
made.  (I've reindented your code -- single-space indents
are hard to read.)


> sum = 0
> sum_stop = 100
> while sum < 100:

You've defined sum_stop, but you're not using it.


>     num = input("Please enter the number: ")
>     sum = sum+num
>     if sum < 100:
>         print "The sum is", sum
>     else:
>         print "The sum is > 100 and it is", sum

As long as you're in your while loop, you *know* that sum <
100, so doing this explicit 'if' test isn't really
necessary.

Try something like this:

while sum < sum_stop:
    num = input("Please enter the number:")
    sum = sum + num    # could also be  sum += num
    print "The sum is", sum
print "and it is > 100"

This will print "The sum is ..." after every number input.
When the sum goes over 100, the while loop ends and it
*also* prints the "and it is..." line.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From ulbi at ivs.tu-berlin.de  Fri Mar 15 04:26:00 2002
From: ulbi at ivs.tu-berlin.de (Andreas Ulbrich)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:26:00 +0100
Subject: how to check how many bytes are available to read() ?
References: <2b57f654.0203142026.68ec3fc7@posting.google.com> <slrna92v0d.8rs.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C91BE28.2050508@ivs.tu-berlin.de>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> 
> If f is a pipe, then you can use select -- at least under Unix.
> I don't know about Windows.
> 

Lib ref. says that this will only work for sockets on Windows.



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 14:44:47 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:44:47 +0000
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <mailman.1015178825.27707.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna87jlf.1ka.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:01:03 -0600, Jason Orendorff <jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:
>Sheila King wrote:
>> That's funny. I'm not familiar with the Lippman/Lajoie book, but I
>> have a LOT of C++ texts here at home. And I learned C++ from the Deitel
>> and Deitel book, and thought it was pretty good. Later, when I taught
>> C++ I used it as a reference, although I didn't select it as the text
>> for my course. Most people I know who are familiar with the Deitel
>> and Deitel C++ text think it is very good.
>
>I dislike Deitel & Deitel because of their casual disregard for
>correctness.  I can't open any of their books without finding an error.
>In C++HTP, they illustrate "Circle" as a subclass of "Point". 

This could well be the case in a particular class hierarchy.

> In CHTP,
>they say it's a common programming error to use \n outside of a printf
>statement (it only works in printf statements, they say).

That's an absurd thing to say.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Mon Mar 25 03:22:41 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:22:41 +0100
Subject: 2.2 open
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:41:40 +1200."
             <3C9E9C74.781B3911@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <E16pPkX-0002Fz-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> Robin Becker wrote:
> >
> > So the question now is, how do I tell if __import__ is the built in one
> > even if the import system is not fully initialized.
>
> You could compare its type with what you really
> should have been comparing it with in the
> first place:
>
>   import types
>   if type(__import__) == types.BuiltinFunctionType:
>     ...

Curious what you'll say about
    you-really-should-have-been-comparing-it-with-in-the-first-place
when `__import__` evolves into a type itself <3/4 wink>.

Despite-the-righteousness-your-advice-is-sound-though-ly yr's

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Sat Mar  2 06:33:56 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 11:33:56 GMT
Subject: Fw: smtplib: including a subject
References: <mailman.1015065904.9385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna81e58.1m2.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Tal Linzen wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Hi.
> 
> I couldn't figure out how to send a mail with a subject. Help?

You're not the first one to have this problem *hint, hint*:

See

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=python+smtplib+subject

for previous discussions of this question.

> (By the way, I think the docs on this module could use some
> rewriting -- it appears to be directed to those familiar with the c
> library it wraps, rather than to the common Python user).

You'll need to file a bug report at the Sourceforge bug tracker if you
want to bring this to the attention of the Python committers. Be sure
to set the Category to "Documentation".

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From gvdbogae at vub.ac.be  Fri Mar  1 19:16:57 2002
From: gvdbogae at vub.ac.be (Geert-Jan Van den Bogaerde)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 01:16:57 +0100
Subject: Stedents Question
In-Reply-To: <1015027935.1342.3.camel@gandalf>
References: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au> 
	<1015027935.1342.3.camel@gandalf>
Message-ID: <1015028218.1341.9.camel@gandalf>

On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 01:12, Geert-Jan Van den Bogaerde wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 00:45, Tony K wrote:
> > The question below is a tutorial question that stumps me.  Any suggestions
> > would be appreciated.
> > Tony
> > 
> > Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as parameter
> > and returns all substrings thereof which match the regexp pattern ab+c. You
> > are NOT allowed to use the re module.
> > 
> 
> Haven't used regexps in a while, but I believe that just means:
> 
> def findABBC(str):
>     return str == "a" + "b" * len(str[1:-1]) + "c"
> 


And as I press send I spot an error in my code, it should be:

def findABBC(str):
    return len(str) > 2 and str == "a" + "b" * len(str[1:-1]) + "c"

as we need at least one b

Geert-Jan




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 22:43:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:43:57 -0500
Subject: question: python and UDP
References: <a7m5i4$6eb$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <3C9E9CFD.AC6A149B@engcorp.com>

ricky wrote:
> 
> I am trying to write a python program to connect to a proxy server which
> takes the following header:
> however, the proxy server doesn't seem to understand the header i sent to
> it.
[...]
> My question is how do i format the header so that proxy server would
> understand the information I send to it.
[...]

Are you looking for the 'struct' module?  That should be enough to 
produce the header format you need.

-Peter


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sun Mar 17 17:22:52 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:22:52 +0300
Subject: Eliminate Spam Now... >g< Python w/DNS/&POP3
In-Reply-To: <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002@typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>; from junkster@rochester.rr.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 09:56:15PM +0000
References: <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002@typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20020318012252.C30949@phd.pp.ru>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 09:56:15PM +0000, Benjamin Schollnick wrote:
>    I'm attempting to use the (py)DNSlib (sourceforge project), to look 
> up Spammers via ORBZ (or similiar group)...

   ORBZ is far from the best balcklist. I heard stories of good people
listed there becuase they've said something bad about ORBZ or people behind
it. I stopped using ORBZ - they list too many good site.

   I recommend the following resources to learn how to fight spam (filters
using blacklists or header/content analysis, reporting tools, etc):

   http://www.abuse.net/
   http://spam.abuse.net/spam/
   http://spamcop.net/
   http://www.cauce.org/
   http://www.nanae.org/

   http://openrbl.org/
   http://razor.sourceforge.net/
   http://spamassassin.org/
   http://www.spambouncer.org/
   http://junkfilter.zer0.org/

   http://samspade.org/
   http://combat.uxn.com/

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From mats at laplaza.org  Sun Mar  3 11:38:13 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:38:13 GMT
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org> <a5rmrs$hpi$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3c82509c.213336581@news.laplaza.org>

On 2 Mar 2002 23:22:36 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

:On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:22:58 GMT, mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) wrote:
:
:>Note: this is not a Python question per se.
:>
:>I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
:>through the web 

:If it doesn't have to be too slick, I think you could write relatively
:simple cgi to do it, depending on what you mean by "document".
:Also, with a small collection of doc text pages and a few occasional
:user/reviewers you could get away with something that wouldn't scale
:to a massive online catalog with graphics layout and thousands of reviewers.
:
:I've thought it would be nice to have something like that for collaborating
:on documentation and/or maybe PEPs.
:
:What kind of docs are you dealing with?

Smallish - for my uses, it doesn't have to scale very far.  On the
order of one to dozens of printed pages (should anyone print 'em),
rather than hundreds, certainly; and with similar orders of magitude
for number of reviewers.  The sorts of docs are spec fragments,
documentation, whitepapers, maybe FAQ answers.

Mats Wichmann



From shivers at cc.gatech.edu  Fri Mar 29 15:50:27 2002
From: shivers at cc.gatech.edu (Olin Shivers)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 20:50:27 GMT
Subject: SIGPLAN Scheme Workshop
Message-ID: <mailman.1017435452.17511.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The Scheme Workshop will be held this year in Pittsburgh, in October, the
day before ICFP. I am the workshop chairman. I am taking the liberty of
cross-posting the call for papers to some netnews programming-language
groups with related topics. We would certainly welcome papers on relevant
topics from your communities as well as attendance and participation in
the workshop's discussions.
    -Olin Shivers

===============================================================================
ACM SIGPLAN
2002 Scheme Workshop
Thursday, October 3, 2002
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

The workshop forms part of PLI 2002, which consists 
of the ICFP and PPDP conferences and other workshops.
Full details on the workshop can be found at URL
<http://scheme2002.ccs.neu.edu/>.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Scope
-------
The purpose of the workshop is to discuss experience with and future
developments of the Scheme programming language, as well as general aspects
of computer science loosely centered on the general theme of Scheme.

Papers are invited concerning all aspects of the design, semantics, theory,
application, implementation, and teaching of Scheme. Some example areas
include (but are not limited to):

- Theory
  Formal semantics, correctness of analyses and transformations, 
  lambda calculus.

- Design critiques
  Limitations of the language, future directions.

- Linguistic extensions
  Scheme's simple syntactic framework and minimal static semantics
  has historically made the language an attractive "lab bench" for the
  development and experimentation of novel language features and mechanisms.

  Topics in this area include modules systems, exceptions, control
  mechanisms, distributed programming, concurrency and synchronisation, macro
  systems, and objects.

- Type systems
  Static analyses for dynamic type systems, type systems that bridge
  the gap between static and dynamic types, static systems with
  "type dynamic" extensions, weak typing.

- Implementation
  Compilers, optimisation, virtual machines, resource management,
  interpreters, foreign-function interfaces, partial evaluation, and generally
  implementations with novel or noteworthy features.

- Program-development environments
  The Lisp and Scheme family of programming languages have traditionally
  been the source of innovative program-development environments. Authors
  working on these issues are encouraged to submit papers describing
  their technologies.

- Education
  Scheme has achieved widespread use as a tool for teaching computer science.
  Papers on the theory and practice of teaching with Scheme are invited.

- Applications and experience
  Interesting applications which illuminate aspects of Scheme;
  experience with Scheme in commercial or real-world contexts;
  use of Scheme as an extension or scripting language.

- Scheme pearls
  Elegant, instructive examples of functional programming.

  A "Scheme pearl" submission is a special category, and should be a short
  paper presenting an algorithm, idea or programming device using Scheme in a
  way that is particularly elegant. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Proceedings
-------------
The proceedings of the conference will be published as a Georgia Tech College
of Computing technical report. A special issue of the journal Higher-Order and
Symbolic Computation about Scheme <http://www.kluweronline.com/issn/1388-3690>
is planned afterwards.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Important dates
-----------------
- Submission deadline: 2200 UTC, 17 May, 2002
- Notification of acceptance or rejection: 28 June, 2002
- Final paper due: 31 August, 2002
- Workshop: 3 October, 2002

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Submission guidelines
-----------------------
Authors should submit a 100-200 word abstract and a full paper by 22:00
Universal Coordinated Time on Thursday, 17 May, 2002. (Note that 2200
UTC is 1800 EDT, or 1500 PDT.)

Submissions will be carried out electronically via the Web, at
<http://scheme2002.ccs.neu.edu/>. Papers must be submitted in PDF format, or as
PostScript documents that are interpretable by Ghostscript, and they must be
printable on US Letter sized paper. Individuals for which this requirement is
a hardship should contact the program chair at least one week before the
deadline.

There are two classes of submissions: reular papers and short papers:

- Regular papers

  Submissions should be no more than 12 pages (including bibliography and
  appendices) in standard ACM conference format: two columns, nine point font
  on ten point baseline, page 20pc (3.33in) wide and 54pc (9in) tall with a
  column gutter of 2pc (0.33in). Authors wishing to supply additional material
  to the reviewers beyond the 12 page limit can do so in clearly marked
  appendices, on the understanding that reviewers are not required to read the
  appendices. Submissions that do not meet these guidelines will not be
  considered. Suitable style files for Latex, Word, and Word Perfect can be
  found on the submission Web site.

  Submitted papers must have content that has not previously been published in
  other conferences or refereed venues, and simultaneous submission to other
  conferences or refereed venues is unacceptable. Each paper should explain its
  contributions in both general and technical terms, clearly identifying what
  has been accomplished, saying why it is significant, and comparing it with
  previous work. Authors should strive to make the technical content of their
  papers understandable to a broad audience.

- Short papers
  Short papers need not present novel research; it is sufficient that they
  present material of interest or utility to the Scheme or
  functional-programming community. "Scheme pearls" submissions should
  be presented as short papers.

  Short papers should be formatted with the same guidelines as regular
  papers, but are expected to be typically around six pages in length.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Organisers
------------

Workshop chair:
    Olin Shivers
    College of Computing
    Georgia Tech
    Atlanta, Ga 30332-0280 
    +1 404 385.00.91
    shivers at cc.gatech.edu

Steering committee:
    William D Clinger (Northeastern University)
    Marc Feeley (University of Montreal)
    Matthias Felleisen (Northeastern University)
    Matthew Flatt (University of Utah)
    Dan Friedman (Indiana University)
    Christian Queinnec (University Paris 6)
    Manuel Serrano (INRIA)
    Mitchell Wand (Northeastern University)

Program committee:
    Alan Bawden (Brandeis)
    Olivier Danvy (University of Aarhus)
    Richard Kelsey (Ember, Corp.)
    Brad Lucier (Purdue University)
    Paul Steckler (Northeastern University)
    Andrew Wright (Aleris)

Publicity:
    Shriram Krishnamurthi (Brown University)




From michael+usenet at dynamine.net  Fri Mar 29 18:28:00 2002
From: michael+usenet at dynamine.net (Michael S. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:28:00 -0000
Subject: IOError on file close
References: <ua9n9hhmdicned@corp.supernews.com> <m3lmcbui00.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ua9sfc1ighfi36@corp.supernews.com> <m38z8bufyu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ua9u40ht79s8bd@corp.supernews.com>

On 30 Mar 2002 00:11:37 +0100, Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> "Michael S. Fischer" <michael+usenet at dynamine.net> writes:
> 
>> It appears that the write() call is the one that's failing, not the
>> close() call.  Python is throwing the exception at the wrong time. 
>> Should I report this as a Python bug?
> 
> Not really. My guess is that the C library buffers the write call, and
> attempts to flush the stream when closing the file. This, in turn,
> produces the error - the write itself succeeds. 
> 
> Just try opening the file without buffering.

OK, I added a third argument (..., 0) to the open() call and now the
exception is thrown during the write() call.  Thanks.

-- 
Michael S. Fischer / michael at dynamine.net / +1 650-533-4684
Lead Hacketeer, Dynamine Consulting, Silicon Valley, CA


From news at charneyday.com  Tue Mar  5 14:32:01 2002
From: news at charneyday.com (Reginald B. Charney)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:32:01 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org> <Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54>

Brett is exactly right. I am using an approach that is valid and elegant in
C++. Since I am fairly new to Python, I had assumed it handled
contructors/destructors in an ordered (i.e. deterministic) fashion. It seems
not.

While Justin is correct - there are a number of packages out there to
generate HTML, I was writing an article and trying to use Python for the
simple examples in the article. (The article was not about Python, per se).
I had to remove all references to Python when I found that the order of
destruction was non-deterministic.

As an aside, it seems a shame that while algorithms are often implementation
independent, their actual coding varies widely because of language
semantics. For example, I expect all computer languages to have a looping
construct, a way of doing arithmetic, and a way of testing for ordering. In
OO languages, I expect a way of defining classes, instantiating them,
defining inheritance and polymorhism, etc. It is interesting that
destruction/garbage collection (something usually done after everything has
been completed) has so profound effect on the design of programs and thus,
implementation of algorithms.

Reg.

"Brett g Porter" <BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757 at bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
>
> "Justin Sheehy" <justin at iago.org> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list at python.org...
> > "Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:
> >
>
> > Perhaps you are using "destructors" to refer to some concept that is
> > different from what the rest of us use that word for?
> No, based on what he wants to do (and his observation that Python suffers
> from the same 'misdesign' as Java) it's pretty clear that he's using
> 'destructor' in the C++ sense, since C++ dtors have exactly the behavior
> he's looking for.
>
> As someone who needed a year or so to separate the C++ and Python halves
of
> my brain, I sympathize, and can only urge (as gently as possible) Mr
Charney
> to think Pythonically , instead of dealing with the frustration of
expecting
> Python to follow C++'s rules. Down that path lies madness.
>
>
> --
> // Brett g Porter * Lead Engineer, Development Practices
> // BgPorter at artlogic.com * www.artlogic.com
> // Art & Logic, Inc. * software engineering and design
> // Desktop * Embedded * Web
>
>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 18 23:50:13 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:50:13 -0500
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
In-Reply-To: <3C9727A0.2030402@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELLOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Gerhard H?ring]
> That's why I asked. I get this:

As Michael asked, please email results to him.





From susan at mars.provis.com  Fri Mar 29 16:17:17 2002
From: susan at mars.provis.com (Susan Williams)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:17:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
Message-ID: <200203292117.g2TLHH305110@mars.provis.com>

>> This is closer.  a itself is an object, and the way you deal
>> with it, at least for some functions, is thru its methods.
>> append is a method of the list object, so what you really want
>> is:
>>
>> a.append(Bob('localhost'))
>
>This works! If I create a list a that has five elements where
>are just instances of Bob, can I "call" a method for a specific
>element of the list? I take I can (Jeff sneaks off to experiment
>while his wife is napping).
>
>Thanks!
>
>Jeff

Hope your experiments went well.  Not sure exactly which question
you're asking, but:

Once you have a list with elements, you can get to an element
in the "normal" way like a[0].  This is really using a method
of the list object too, but its more like a function overload
where [] is a sort of operator.  (Sorry, I'm not a "language
lawyer" so that is not the best explanation :-)

Or:  yeah, you can call a Bob method on an element of a:
a[0].Bobmethod1('somethingOrOther')

susan




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  1 04:30:13 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 09:30:13 GMT
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a5nhn5$8c3$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Feb 2002 15:09:23 +0100, Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
[...]
>You may wonder why Python (the programming language) needs to worry
>about the encoding at all. The reason is that we allow Unicode
>literals, in the form
>
>   u"text"
>
>The question is what is the encoding of "text", on disk. In memory, it
>will be 2-byte Unicode, so the interpreter needs to convert. To do
>that, it must know what the encoding is, on disk. The choices are
>using either UTF-8, or allowing encoding cookies.
>
I'm not sure what you mean by 'encoding cookies' but I assume you
mean something analogous to browser cookies, where some data of
interest is stored separately but related to some other data and
processing, like HTML form sumbissions etc.

Well, forget the cookie associations, but I think keeping meta-data
separate from data is a Good Thing(tm).

Also keeping it out of the names of things (i.e., don't encode file types
in name extensions ;-)

<the main idea of this post>
Perhaps we could just use a file to contain extra file metadata,
letting a file of metadata govern other files it names in the same
directory as itself. Probably a dot file in *nix.

For PEP 263 purposes, it would only need to be a text file with file
names tab delimited from keyword=encoding-info, with the first line(s)
perhaps with a glob pattern for a compact way of specifying encoding
for a lot of files in a directory at once.

To provide international encoding for file-associated info, like
a local dialect/special characters name etc., in a system whose
native file naming is more restricted, perhaps this directory of
file attributes could be standardized to UTF-8 for its own encoding.

That way, you could have the first column represent the file name
the system sees and an optional uname= keyword could provide an
alternate utf-8 encoded name for the file that tools that knew of it
could display, and then encoding=whatever for the actual file data per se.

The nice thing is that you don't have to touch the original files
to describe them. By including a location= keyword you could even
have this work like a symbolic link to a network file or even
an URL-specified file, which could be read-only and burned in a CD,
or a please-mount-backup-tape-x location, etc.

The actual file data would not have to be in the same directory at all.
</the main idea of this post>

I have more ideas, but I tend to overdo one post that way ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter

P.S. This discussion made me look for some more UTF info. For anyone
interested, I found  a FAQ at

http://www.unicode.org/unicode/faq/utf_bom.html#2

and

http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr27/

has a nice table showing where bits go for UTF-8 and UTF-16 encoding
of unicode characters, and even 32-bit stuff.

Might make a refs links for the PEP.

There are some changes as to legality checks, apparently,
as of last May. I'm wondering if this affects PEP 263
and/or the unicode implementation in Python.



From eric at vasilik.com  Sun Mar 17 19:58:46 2002
From: eric at vasilik.com (Eric Vasilik)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 16:58:46 -0800
Subject: Help with a Python ASP C extension module ...
References: <40ee0487.0203152316.70c12a49@posting.google.com> <3C93F993.3010109@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <40ee0487.0203171658.10d1192d@posting.google.com>

Thanks Mark, you nailed *exactly* what I'm looking for!  I will try to
use this asap.  I am using Response.BinaryWrite to send an image to
the client.  To test the performance of my own writes, I have two web
pages.  One has 30 images all directly hitting JPEGs on my server. 
The second page has references to the same 30 images, but using a url
which causes the server to go to a python script which writes the
JPEGs out.  By eyeballing the amount of time it takes to completely
load both pages, I see that it takes almost 3 times as long to load
the page which goes thorugh the script.

I'm not sure where the bottleneck is, I'm trying to rule out the GIL
by doing my own call to IResponse.BinaryWrite.  However, as you point
out, there may be other factors.  I have to track down some:

1) I'm using a custom 404 error handler to invoke the script.  Perhaps
there is some single threading issues there?  Probably not, I would
think that IIS can hand out plenty of errors without locking all
threads out.

2) I'm not sending the right caching headers out to the client and the
client is refetching all the images all the time, while the direct
JPEG page fetches them from the cache.  This is a real possibilty I'll
have to track down.

I'll post back when (if :-) I find out!

P.S. I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of your book "Python Programming
on Win32"!

- Eric

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3C93F993.3010109 at skippinet.com.au>...
> Eric Vasilik wrote:
> > I am writing a C extension to Python.  The reason I am writing an
> > extension is that I believe that the implementation of
> > Response.BinaryWrite() in the Window's ASP extension (I am using
> > Active State's Python 2.1) is not releasing the global interpreter
> > lock.  
> 
> I am almost certain that it does.  All COM calls release the GIL. 
> Response is an IDispatch object.  This means that the call is made via 
> either PyIDispatch::Invoke, or PyIDispatch::InvokeTypes.  These release 
> the lock.
> 
>  > I am getting very poor performace using it and I believe that
> > my server is not taking advantage of writing out multiple streams
> > because of the global lock.
> 
> I am not sure what makes you believe Reponse.Write is to blame.  It is 
> more likely that another Python thread is "busy" somewhere other than 
> Response.Write or fileIO.
> 
> > Instead of writing out a response with:
> > 
> >     Response.BinaryWrite( buffer( open( fileName, 'rb' ).read() ) )
> > 
> > I am now doing the following:
> > 
> >     PythonExt.binaryWriteFile( Response, fileName )
> 
> OK - but don't be surprised if you see pretty much the same thing.  You 
> are removing a little Python overhead, but not alot.
> 
> > The difference between these two is that the first calls the default
> > implementation of Response.BinaryWrite and the second calls an
> > extension I have written which reads the file and writes it out to
> > response, all while the interpreter lock is released.
> 
> The former Python version will do all the significant work (ie, the file 
> open, read and response.write call) with the lock released too.  Some of 
> the IDispatch mechanics will be avoided though, as will the multiple 
> lock transitions involved in the Python version.
> 
> > My problem, is I cannot find any documentation on how to get a hold of
> > the IResponse object from the Python Response object.  I need to get
> > it so that I may call BinaryWrite on without going back into the
> > Python interpreter.
> 
> Going via IResponse should speed things up a tiny bit too.  Basically, 
> the "Response" object is a class instance, and the attribute "_oleobj_" 
> is the PyIDispatch object.  So you need something like:
> 
>    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple("Os", &pyResponse, &filename)) ...
>    PyObject *pydisp = PyObject_GetAttrString(pyResponse, "_oleobj_");
>    if (!pydisp) ...
>    // now get the object.
>    if (!PyCom_InterfaceFromPyObject(pydisp,
>            IID_IRESPONSE,
>            (void **)&pResponse,
>            FALSE /* None is not valid */ )) ...
>     Py_DECREF(pydisp);
>     ... use pResponse
>     pResponse->Release();
> 
> 
> Using PyCom_InterfaceFromPyObject() means you will need to include 
> pythoncom.h, and link against pythoncomxx.lib - which means you will 
> need to build pythoncom from sources - see 
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/BuildingExtensions.html
> 
> Mark.


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  5 10:32:54 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:32:54 GMT
Subject: Patch: clearing breakpoints in IDLE
References: <3C84E2C9.8DC206B4@tds.net>
Message-ID: <u8z972fif.fsf@python.net>

"Edward K. Ream" <edream at tds.net> writes:

> Hi all:
> 
> I am beginning to think that IDLE's debugger suffers from a vicious
> cycle:
> 
> 1. Nobody uses IDLE's debugger, so
> 2. Nobody complains about its glaring deficiencies, so
> 3. Nothing gets fixed, so (back to one)

http://www.python.org/patches/

(noone will see this here)

Actually, you may want to consider talking to the idlefork folks, as
that's where I believe idle development is happening these days:

http://idlefork.sf.net

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  It's actually a corruption of "starling".  They used to be carried.
  Since they weighed a full pound (hence the name), they had to be
  carried by two starlings in tandem, with a line between them.
                 -- Alan J Rosenthal explains "Pounds Sterling" on asr


From jason at tishler.net  Mon Mar 18 07:49:19 2002
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:49:19 -0500
Subject: Problem using pexports & Cygwin to build Python 2.2 extension
 modules
In-Reply-To: <a74hef$ejq$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <Pv2l8.131777$V15.22100907@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
 <a74hef$ejq$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <20020318124918.GB1460@tishler.net>

Les,

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 11:57:14AM +0100, Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:21:19 GMT, "Les Button" <lbut at stny.rr.com> wrote:
> >$ python setup.py build --compiler=cygwin
> 
> try:
> 	setup.py build --compiler=mingw32

I concur with Anton that the "--compiler=mingw32" is required to build
Win32 Python extensions with Cygwin gcc -mno-cygwin.

FWIW, this is how I build the Win32 Python readline extension.

Jason



From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Mar 13 10:20:22 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
In-Reply-To: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203130712520.18194-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, James A Roush wrote:

> Does anyone have any code that, given that absolute URL of a web page, can
> convert all the relative URLs on that page to their absolute equivalent?

Hi James,

You have to separate problems here: finding/replacing the URLs and
converting relatives to absolutes. The second problem is the easiest:

>>> import urlparse
>>> absolute = 'http://www.foo.com/bar/baz/file.avi'
>>> url = '../boink/boom.mpg'
>>> urlparse.urljoin(absolute, url)
'http://www.foo.com/bar/boink/boom.mpg'

In order to handle the first problem you have to decide which URLs you're
interested in: just hrefs or everything (at least img, embed, object,
param can have URLs too). Also, you need to search the head of the HTML
document for an optional 'base' HTML tag that specifies the new base URL
to use.

-Dave




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar 10 16:46:42 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:42 GMT
Subject: Syntax to catch specific exceptions ?
References: <3C8BD227.7D1D5539@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <6vQi8.24234$n4.4716288@newsc.telia.net>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:
> I can get the error text and number as follows, but how to catch only
> "File exists" OSError ?
>
> try:
> ...  os.mkdir('e:\\tmp')
> except OSError, (errno, strerror):
> ...  print strerror
> ...
> File exists

catch it, check the errno attribute, and raise it again
if it's not the right error:

import os, errno

try:
    os.mkdir(somedir)
except OSError, v:
    if v.errno != errno.EEXIST:
        raise
    # directory exists

alternatively, you can use os.path.isdir to check if the
directory exists before you call mkdir.

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From mkingston at -at-shaw.ca  Wed Mar  6 14:38:21 2002
From: mkingston at -at-shaw.ca (Mark Kingston)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:21 -0800
Subject: Python on W2K server and dos batch files?
Message-ID: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net>

Hello Experts,

I've been looking into the possibility of using Python as a scripting
language for use on our Windows 2000 Server with Terminal Services and
Citrix Metaframe XPa.  The reason I'm looking into a scripting language
instead of a compiled program is that I need to add new functionality to the
programs often.  The scripting program will also serve as a "launch pad" for
other DOS batch files and compiled console applications.

I would appreciate if you can tell me if Python is a good fit for what I
want to do.  If not, please recommend another solution.

The tasks I wish to accomplish is as follows:

1. Create a GUI (wxPython?) which will be used for server administration
purposes such as automatically displaying a list of NT users on a form and
allowing the user to select which user to enable or disable.

2. Create a GUI which will allow a user to launch other scripts such as DOS
batch files, Windows programs and console programs.

3. The GUI should also be able to capture the output of console programs and
display it on it's own text box or panel.

4. Perform advanced text file manipulation.

Thanks for reading this long post and any information is greatly
appreciated!

--
Mark.
mkingston at -at-shaw.ca
Please remove '-at-' from email if replying directly to me.




From dnijaguar at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 15:43:54 2002
From: dnijaguar at yahoo.com (Matt Strange)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 12:43:54 -0800
Subject: Newbie: EOF Error when making arrays .fromfile
Message-ID: <33e33d88.0203191243.454d39b8@posting.google.com>

hello all, i am very new to python and i'm using v2.2 on a Win98SE
machine.  i needed to read in double-type data from an ASCII file
(http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/planet0.dat).  this file contains 3000
doubles separated by the tab("\t") value.  after reading information
posted on this newsgroup, i decided that it would be best to first
translate this ASCII data into a binary file using a c++ program
(http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/atb.cpp).  then, i could read in this
binary file (http://dnijaguar.tripod.com/bin0.dat) with the following
lines of python:

>>> coord = array('d')
>>> coord.fromfile(open("bin0.dat",'r'),3000)

however, there is a problem.  i recieve the error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
EOFError: not enough items in file

and when i type in "coord" from the >>> prompt to see what is stored
inside it, i see the values listed at the very end of this message;
i.e. the correct values, but definately not 3000 of them like i
wanted.  i would appreciate it if someone would tell me the reason i
am having this problem and the code necessary to fix it (with ASCII or
binary files). thank you very much for your help.

value of coord shown on command line:

array('d', [100000.0, 10000.0, -10000.0, 99995.0, 10001.0, -9998.0,
97469.199999
999997, 10493.200000000001, -8994.9799999999996, 94890.199999999997,
10969.0, -7
986.0299999999997, 92255.0, 11426.4, -6971.3000000000002,
89560.100000000006, 11
863.4, -5950.9799999999996, 86801.800000000003, 12277.799999999999,
-4925.369999
9999999, 83976.100000000006, 12666.6, -3894.8499999999999,
81078.399999999994, 1
3026.799999999999, -2859.9699999999998, 78103.5, 13354.6,
-1821.4400000000001, 7
5045.800000000003, 13645.5, -780.21400000000006, 71898.800000000003,
13894.20000
0000001, 262.42399999999998, 68655.199999999997, 14094.4, 1304.74,
65306.5999999
99999, 14238.299999999999, 2344.4000000000001, 61843.599999999999,
14316.2000000
00001, 3378.1500000000001, 58255.099999999999, 14316.299999999999,
4401.5, 54528
.599999999999, 14223.5, 5408.04, 50649.400000000001, 14018.5, 6388.46,
46600.699
999999997, 13676.4, 7328.8599999999997, 42363.400000000001,
13164.299999999999,
8207.8999999999996, 37917.5, 12439.6, 8991.7999999999993,
33244.199999999997, 11
447.799999999999, 9625.9500000000007, 28333.599999999999, 10126.6,
10022.7000000
00001, 23197.5, 8424.3799999999992, 10051.5, 17877.599999999999,
6340.1099999999
997, 9557.7600000000002, 12415.1, 3945.0, 8431.9799999999996,
6784.3100000000004
, 1310.78, 6655.5600000000004, 863.47900000000004,
-1607.8800000000001, 4227.600
0000000004, -5535.2299999999996, -5062.9700000000003, 1022.54,
-12557.1, -9702.5
100000000002, -3429.2600000000002, -19426.0, -17103.799999999999,
-10433.2999999
99999, -21219.700000000001, -28053.400000000001, -20689.5,
-16580.799999999999,
-38120.0, -30341.599999999999, -9804.4699999999993,
-46184.900000000001, -38337.
099999999999, -2476.6100000000001, -52974.699999999997])


From michael at amtec.com  Fri Mar 29 10:43:57 2002
From: michael at amtec.com (Michael Saunders)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:43:57 -0800
Subject: Executing a specific function.
Message-ID: <3CA48BBD.FF96D257@amtec.com>

I see that the Python C API provides several interfaces for compiling and
executing Python code. But I don't want to just execute some Python code I want
to call a particular function within a Python file. How do I call a Python
function (from C) in a some .py file?

Michael



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 17:18:09 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:18:09 +0000
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrna8svl0.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 3 Mar 2002 09:50:58 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?

I assume you mean here a *Python* program.

>    assert q'<-=delim=->'content here<-=delim=-> == 'content here' # this would be true
>
>without getting an error.

Looks a bit complex. What if you have a quoted string inside a 
quoted string, e.g, you want to quote this:

   list = [1, q'|'string|, 3]

if you just choose the same dewlimiter for the next time, it fails:

   q'|'list = [1, q'|'string|, 3]|

as this would parse as the string "list = [1, q'" followed by a 
syntax error. Of course, you could choose another delimeter, but 
it'd be nice if this could be done automatically by a simple-minded
program.

Lisp is famous for being able to quote program text. The way it 
manages it is by using (...); this is possible because any brackets 
inside must match. Let's try this for Python, using {} instead of 
(), to prevent it from looking like a function call:

   list = [1, q{string}, 3]

and:

   q{list = [1, q{string}, 3]}

This works. The reason it works is that the outer '{' only tries to 
connect to the matching '}'. Inner braces are matched with 
themselves; braces inside normal strings or comments are ignored.

>Note the lack of quotes around the final delimiter string, since it itself is
>the final delimiter. This can also be used to solve the final unescaped
>backslash problem for quoting windows paths:
>
>    q'|'c:\foo\bar\|

"""c:\foo\bar\""" and r"c:\foo\bar\" work just as well.

The best solution, of course, is to not use Windows.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Mar  9 17:50:55 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:50:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: range Failure?
In-Reply-To: <3C8A8564.E2F005AA@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020309145055.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 09-Mar-2002 Colin J. Williams wrote:
> <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
> <html>
> It would seem that the first execution below should deliver the same
> <br>result as the second.
> <br>>>> range(5, 2)
> <br>[]
> <br>>>> range(0, 5, 2)
> <br>[0, 2, 4]

GAH! kill the html please.

range(5,2) says "start at 5 and go to 2" which makes no sense and thus returns
an empty list.

from the python source:

        if (PyTuple_Size(args) <= 1) {
                if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,
                                "l;range() requires 1-3 int arguments",
                                &ihigh))
                        return NULL;
        }
        else {
                if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,
                                "ll|l;range() requires 1-3 int arguments",
                                &ilow, &ihigh, &istep))
                        return NULL;
        }

Look at the last arguments to each funtion.  If one argument is passed it
because the high value (endpoint).  Otherwise the values are assigned in order
to low, high and then step (which defaults to 1).



From wmistar at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 23:55:43 2002
From: wmistar at yahoo.com (Will G.)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 20:55:43 -0800
Subject: Python calling C with callback to Python - crash!
Message-ID: <eb636178.0203162055.58faa708@posting.google.com>

I know I'm rather demented to write something like this:
A.py calls B.dll using dynwin (windll)
B.dll has a callback to C.py and potentially calling it repeatedly.

When I run A.py, the callback is successfully called until it's last
invocation when "bam!!" python.exe crashes spectacularly.

I know the problem is on Python's side because when I use a C program
to invoke the B.dll, the callback to C.py is called and executed
flawlessly.

Appreciate any help!

Will G.

PS:
Here's the callback code, it's adapted (almost verbatim) from the
python on embedding doc:
    Py_Initialize();
    pName = PyString_FromString(HCFAMGR_MODULE);
    /* Error checking of pName left out */

    pModule = PyImport_Import(pName);
    if (pModule != NULL) 
    {
        pDict = PyModule_GetDict(pModule);
        /* pDict is a borrowed reference */

        pFunc = PyDict_GetItemString(pDict, PYTHON_FUNCTION);
        /* pFun: Borrowed reference */

        if (pFunc && PyCallable_Check(pFunc)) 
        {
            // WG - Specify the number of parameter we're going to
pass to this
            // function
            pArgs = PyTuple_New(4);

            // WG - Set the main claim as first argument (LPTSTR)
            pValue = PyString_FromString(charptrToHCFA);
            if (!pValue)
                fprintf(stderr, "Can't pass claim\n");
            PyTuple_SetItem(pArgs, 0, pValue);
            
            ... (finish assigning the parameters)

            // WG - Call the Python function
            pValue = PyObject_CallObject(pFunc, pArgs);
            if (pValue != NULL) 
            {
                result = PyInt_AsLong(pValue);
                Py_DECREF(pValue);
            }
            else 
            {
                PyErr_Print();
                fprintf(stderr,"Call failed\n");
                return 1;
            }
            Py_DECREF(pArgs);
            /* pDict and pFunc are borrowed and must not be
Py_DECREF-ed */

        }
        else 
        {
            PyErr_Print();
            fprintf(stderr, "Cannot find function \"%s\"\n",
PYTHON_FUNCTION);
        }
        Py_DECREF(pModule);
    }
    else 
    {
        PyErr_Print();
        fprintf(stderr, "Failed to load \"%s\"\n", HCFAMGR_MODULE);
        return 1;
    }
    Py_DECREF(pName);
    Py_Finalize();


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar 25 08:39:21 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:39:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
Message-ID: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

I'm thinking about implementing a library that uses the xml-part of
XML-RPC (i.e. XML-RPC without the HTTP) in two-way persistent stream
(tcp socket) somewhat like Jabber, to improve performance. (Although I
haven't tested it yet, it seems that HTTP must be one of the
performance killers in XML-RPC.)

My original idea was to let only requests go in one direction, and
responses in the other -- but I guess mixing requests and responses in
both directions might be useful as well, perhaps? That way the client
wouldn't need to run a socket server to be able to receive calls from
the server.

Before I start playing with this -- has anyone else done similar
things? Are there such implementations available already? Is it a
futile project? And if there are no implementations for Python --
perhaps there are for some other languages?

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From garrett at bgb-consulting.com  Mon Mar 25 18:14:57 2002
From: garrett at bgb-consulting.com (Don Garrett)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:14:57 GMT
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <3C9FAF96.5DE9A0@bgb-consulting.com>

  Okay, I admit I haven't gone looking yet, but....

  Are there any decent (finished/tested) Jabber libraries for Python?

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> 
> Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> > I'm thinking about implementing a library that uses the xml-part of
> > XML-RPC (i.e. XML-RPC without the HTTP) in two-way persistent stream
> > (tcp socket) somewhat like Jabber, to improve performance.
> 
> Why not Jabber? Jabber is meant to do that. It's designed to do that.
> It's *begging* you to use it that way.
> 
> This is in stark contrast to HTTP. HTTP thinks you're nuts. HTTP will
> fight you tooth and nail. HTTP is old, and hoary, and set in her ways.
> And XML-RPC isn't exactly ecstatic about being streamed, either.
> 
> Why fight the system when you can work with another one?

--
Don Garrett                             http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting                                      garrett at bgb.cc


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Fri Mar 22 15:55:07 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 20:55:07 GMT
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9n6hb.2e1.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list at python.org>, 
	Laura Creighton wrote:
> One days reading of your weeks spam will yield you many offers of
> programs and advice on how to make your website rise in the Google
> ranking.  This reflects the reality that once you have made it to the

Rule #1 when dealing with spam: Spammers lie.  I doubt any of those
offers would actually result in any useful information or visible
effect on your ranking.  Absent Scientology-scale creation of fake
links, the only way is to update your site often and to get other
people to link to you.

> EBay has one sort of approach.  So does Advogato (see http://advogato.org ).
> It is a real problem and one that interests me a lot.

At the Web services panel at Python10, Tim Berners-Lee mourned that
third-party Web annotation tools such as crit.org or the commercial
Third Voice have never really caught on.  Probably this is because, as
he suggested, the UI would be really complicated, because we already
have the technical pieces needed.

Consider your example of a buggy formula on a Web page.  Perhaps
someone has noted this error on some annotation service, but on which
one?  The W3C's?  crit.org?  The American Mathematical Society?  You
probably can't just pick one for the whole Web, because the AMS
annotations probably don't comment on X-Files Web pages much (or
particularly well).  Instead you'd need a complex set of preferences
-- use the AMS for mathematical pages, use the MEMS Exchange for
MEMS-related pages, and so forth.  

This quickly gets really messy.  Who annotates a finite-element
analysis of a MEMS structure?  Both services, or just one?  And how do
you tell if a page is mathematical, anyway?  Or will I constantly
telling my browser which service to use for each URL, in a
never-ending task.  (You could have a annotation service that just
classified pages, of course.) 

A widely adopted solution would bring us much closer to Ted Nelson's
vision of a hyperlinked repository of all knowledge, but getting there
seems very, very difficult.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Beware the devious Calib. One day he'll get so cunning even he won't
know what he's planning.
    -- Leela, in "The Face of Evil"



From cbbrowne at acm.org  Mon Mar 11 19:29:15 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 19:29:15 -0500
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com> <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au> <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015882525.3222.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ofhuy6g4.fsf@salesman.cbbrowne.com>

Kendall Clark <kendall at monkeyfist.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "sandy" == Sandy Norton <sandskyfly at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>   sandy> "Patrick" wrote:
>   >> This subset of PASKELL will be clean, beautiful and functional.
> 
>   sandy> I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant 'beget a pretty monster' of
>   sandy> an application, not a language. The last thing I would want
>   sandy> to do is waste time discussing a new hybrid 'PASKELL'
>   sandy> language...
> 
> I've been daydreaming for about a year of a Python implementation
> written in Haskell, which would obviously make writing Python
> extensions in Haskell easier (and more elegant, IMO, than writing them
> in C or Java).
> 
> However, John Paul Skaller did something similar with Ocaml, which he
> called Vyper, and that went over in the Py world like a leaden balloon
> -- actually it went over about as poorly as Stackless Python did;
> which does cause me to wonder what it is about Python culture, if
> anything, that's resistant to unusual alternative implementations?. A
> Python implementation in Haskell is probably a fool's task. Though
> given the various Haskell compilers, including some pretty impressive
> parallelizing stuff, it is an interesting idea.
> 
> (Ocaml is pretty much Caml + objects; Caml is INRIA's implementation
> of ML; in the neighborhood of Haskell, but less syntactially elegant,
> IMO.)
> 
> At least, a Haskell implementation of Python seems more practical than
> a Python implementation of Haskell, which would be rather toylike. But
> YMMV.

I'd love to see Vyper go further; it's a neat approach to the
"wouldn't it be neat to static type Python?" question.

The thing that seemed particularly neat was the way it added in
ML-style pattern matching.

I have a feeling that what has happened isn't so much that people
started farting in the author's general direction ("your mother smells
like elderberries!"), but that it was a one man show, and that nobody
really took interest in it.

In effect, it may be just like most of the SourceForge projects that
get started up by someone that thinks they have an idea, but who never
get around to any usable degree of completion.

Alternatively, it could be compared to SOAP implementations on Python.
The wonderful thing about SOAP on Python is that there are so many
implementations to choose from.  Unfortunately, most of them got about
half-way through, and authors' companies got lost in the wastelands of
the "Internet Bubble."  And so we have a whole bunch of
implementations, most of which are completely unmaintained.  (Compare
to Perl's SOAP::Lite...)
-- 
(reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn@" "enworbbc"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/python.html


From python at rcn.com  Fri Mar 22 16:53:23 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:53:23 -0500
Subject: [ANN] PEP 279 updated to version 1.8
Message-ID: <a7g95h$5ii$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

PEP 279 has been reposted with the following changes:

-- Fixed indentation error in the logger() function.
-- Changed variable names in indexed() to start and stop.
-- Generator parameter passing proposal moved to a separate PEP (not yet
posted)
-- Added comments and voting results from the community.
-- Revised the author response to comments

Note, this PEP has been submitted to GvR for pronouncement.


Raymond Hettinger




From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sat Mar  9 17:33:32 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:33:32 -0500
Subject: Tkinter + Button widget
Message-ID: <3c8a928e$1_2@nopics.sjc>

when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?

    def HideNewClient(self, frame):
        frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
        return

        pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                               text="Search",
                               relief=GROOVE,
                               font=("Tahoma", 10),
                               width=16,
                               command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))

any help would greatly be appreciated.

Adonis




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 30 12:42:39 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:42:39 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> > Are there code snippets which clearly have significantly improved
> > readability as a result of a rewrite using the proposed bool?
> 
> The standard library has 110 occurrences of "return 0", 70 occurrences
> of "return 1", and 136 occurrences of "return None". Optimistically,
> this makes 300 functions. It would help users of these 300 functions
> if they would know whether those functions return a boolean or an
> integral value (if integral, what range?); for the "return None"
> cases, the boolean type would help to clarify whether this is "return
> no value", "return False", or "return nil object";

So does this change proposes to change the readability so that
it is clear at a glance (at the source, not the documentation, which
seems an odd thing to base this on) that those functions return
boolean conditions rather than integers?

If that is _all_ this change does, I suppose it would be okay.
If it in _any way_ changes the functionality one can currently
expect for those return values, such as the ability to use as
indices into a sequence, then I'm still very -1.

I like Greg's response too.  The improved readability does not
appear to outweigh the disadvantages of making Python's special
behaviour clear.

Furthermore, there will be code breakage, and that should always
rate very high on the list of reasons to leave well enough alone.

-Peter


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  8 15:50:47 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:50:47 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 final version
Message-ID: <OF2274428C.7C1C67E7-ON88256B76.00718FDB@i2.com>

Included below is the final version of PEP 276.

For those interested, I changed the "issues" section to include the
concerns that came up in recent discussions on this list.

In light of the "Parade of PEPS" message, I also have asked the PEP
administrator to move PEP 276 to the withdrawn/rejected group.

Many thanks to all who participated in the PEP 276 discussions.

Jim Althoff
Senior Vice President
i2 Technologies, Inc.


=====================================================


PEP: 276
Title: Simple Iterator for ints
Author: james_althoff at i2.com (Jim Althoff)
Type: Standards Track
Created: 12-Nov-2001
Python-Version: 2.3


Abstract

    Python 2.1 added new functionality to support iterators[1].
    Iterators have proven to be useful and convenient in many coding
    situations.  It is noted that the implementation of Python's
    for-loop control structure uses the iterator protocol as of
    release 2.1.  It is also noted that Python provides iterators for
    the following builtin types: lists, tuples, dictionaries, strings,
    and files.  This PEP proposes the addition of an iterator for the
    builtin type int (types.IntType).  Such an iterator would simplify
    the coding of certain for-loops in Python.


Specification

    Define an iterator for types.intType (i.e., the builtin type
    "int") that is returned from the builtin function "iter" when
    called with an instance of types.intType as the argument.

    The returned iterator has the following behavior:

    - Assume that object i is an instance of types.intType (the
      builtin type int) and that i > 0

    - iter(i) returns an iterator object

    - said iterator object iterates through the sequence of ints
      0,1,2,...,i-1

    Example:

        iter(5) returns an iterator object that iterates through the
        sequence of ints 0,1,2,3,4

    - if i <= 0, iter(i) returns an "empty" iterator, i.e., one that
      throws StopIteration upon the first call of its "next" method

    In other words, the conditions and semantics of said iterator is
    consistent with the conditions and semantics of the range() and
    xrange() functions.

    Note that the sequence 0,1,2,...,i-1 associated with the int i is
    considered "natural" in the context of Python programming because
    it is consistent with the builtin indexing protocol of sequences
    in Python.  Python lists and tuples, for example, are indexed
    starting at 0 and ending at len(object)-1 (when using positive
    indices).  In other words, such objects are indexed with the
    sequence 0,1,2,...,len(object)-1


Rationale

    A common programming idiom is to take a collection of objects and
    apply some operation to each item in the collection in some
    established sequential order.  Python provides the "for in"
    looping control structure for handling this common idiom.  Cases
    arise, however, where it is necessary (or more convenient) to
    access each item in an "indexed" collection by iterating through
    each index and accessing each item in the collection using the
    corresponding index.

    For example, one might have a two-dimensional "table" object where one
    requires the application of some operation to the first column of
    each row in the table.  Depending on the implementation of the table
    it might not be possible to access first each row and then each
    column as individual objects.  It might, rather, be possible to
    access a cell in the table using a row index and a column index.
    In such a case it is necessary to use an idiom where one iterates
    through a sequence of indices (indexes) in order to access the
    desired items in the table.  (Note that the commonly used
    DefaultTableModel class in Java-Swing-Jython has this very protocol).

    Another common example is where one needs to process two or more
    collections in parallel.  Another example is where one needs to
    access, say, every second item in a collection.

    There are many other examples where access to items in a
    collection is facilitated by a computation on an index thus
    necessitating access to the indices rather than direct access to
    the items themselves.

    Let's call this idiom the "indexed for-loop" idiom.  Some
    programming languages provide builtin syntax for handling this
    idiom.  In Python the common convention for implementing the
    indexed for-loop idiom is to use the builtin range() or xrange()
    function to generate a sequence of indices as in, for example:

     for rowcount in range(table.getRowCount()):
         print table.getValueAt(rowcount, 0)

    or

     for rowcount in xrange(table.getRowCount()):
         print table.getValueAt(rowcount, 0)

    From time to time there are discussions in the Python community
    about the indexed for-loop idiom.  It is sometimes argued that the
    need for using the range() or xrange() function for this design
    idiom is:

    - Not obvious (to new-to-Python programmers),

    - Error prone (easy to forget, even for experienced Python
      programmers)

    - Confusing and distracting for those who feel compelled to understand
      the differences and recommended usage of xrange() vis-a-vis range()

    - Unwieldy, especially when combined with the len() function,
      i.e., xrange(len(sequence))

    - Not as convenient as equivalent mechanisms in other languages,

    - Annoying, a "wart", etc.

    And from time to time proposals are put forth for ways in which
    Python could provide a better mechanism for this idiom.  Recent
    examples include PEP 204, "Range Literals", and PEP 212, "Loop
    Counter Iteration".

    Most often, such proposal include changes to Python's syntax and
    other "heavyweight" changes.

    Part of the difficulty here is that advocating new syntax implies
    a comprehensive solution for "general indexing" that has to
    include aspects like:

    - starting index value

    - ending index value

    - step value

    - open intervals versus closed intervals versus half opened intervals

    Finding a new syntax that is comprehensive, simple, general,
    Pythonic, appealing to many, easy to implement, not in conflict
    with existing structures, not excessively overloading of existing
    structures, etc. has proven to be more difficult than one might
    anticipate.

    The proposal outlined in this PEP tries to address the problem by
    suggesting a simple "lightweight" solution that helps the most
    common case by using a proven mechanism that is already available
    (as of Python 2.1): namely, iterators.

    Because for-loops already use "iterator" protocol as of Python
    2.1, adding an iterator for types.IntType as proposed in this PEP
    would enable by default the following shortcut for the indexed
    for-loop idiom:

     for rowcount in table.getRowCount():
         print table.getValueAt(rowcount, 0)

    The following benefits for this approach vis-a-vis the current
    mechanism of using the range() or xrange() functions are claimed
    to be:

    - Simpler,

    - Less cluttered,

    - Focuses on the problem at hand without the need to resort to
      secondary implementation-oriented functions (range() and
      xrange())

    And compared to other proposals for change:

    - Requires no new syntax

    - Requires no new keywords

    - Takes advantage of the new and well-established iterator mechanism

    And generally:

    -  Is consistent with iterator-based "convenience" changes already
       included (as of Python 2.1) for other builtin types such as:
       lists, tuples, dictionaries, strings, and files.


Backwards Compatibility

    The proposed mechanism is generally backwards compatible as it
    calls for neither new syntax nor new keywords.  All existing,
    valid Python programs should continue to work unmodified.

    However, this proposal is not perfectly backwards compatible in
    the sense that certain statements that are currently invalid
    would, under the current proposal, become valid.

    Tim Peters has pointed out two such examples:

    1) The common case where one forgets to include range() or
       xrange(), for example:

        for rowcount in table.getRowCount():
            print table.getValueAt(rowcount, 0)

       in Python 2.2 raises a TypeError exception.

       Under the current proposal, the above statement would be valid
       and would work as (presumably) intended.  Presumably, this is a
       good thing.

       As noted by Tim, this is the common case of the "forgotten
       range" mistake (which one currently corrects by adding a call
       to range() or xrange()).

    2) The (hopefully) very uncommon case where one makes a typing
       mistake when using tuple unpacking.  For example:

           x, = 1

       in Python 2.2 raises a TypeError exception.

       Under the current proposal, the above statement would be valid
       and would set x to 0.  The PEP author has no data as to how
       common this typing error is nor how difficult it would be to
       catch such an error under the current proposal.  He imagines
       that it does not occur frequently and that it would be
       relatively easy to correct should it happen.


Issues:

    Extensive discussions concerning PEP 276 on the Python interest
    mailing list suggests a range of opinions: some in favor, some
    neutral, some against.  Those in favor tend to agree with the
    claims above of the usefulness, convenience, ease of learning,
    and simplicity of a simple iterator for integers.

    Issues with PEP 276 include:

    - Using range/xrange is fine as is.

      Response: Some posters feel this way.  Other disagree.

    - Some feel that iterating over the sequence "0, 1, 2, ..., n-1"
      for an integer n is not intuitive.  "for i in 5:" is considered
      (by some) to be "non-obvious", for example.  Some dislike this
      usage because it doesn't have "the right feel".  Some dislike it
      because they believe that this type of usage forces one to view
      integers as a sequences and this seems wrong to them.  Some
      dislike it because they prefer to view for-loops as dealing
      with explicit sequences rather than with arbitrary iterators.

      Response: Some like the proposed idiom and see it as simple,
      elegant, easy to learn, and easy to use.  Some are neutral on
      this issue.  Others, as noted, dislike it.

    - Is it obvious that iter(5) maps to the sequence 0,1,2,3,4?

      Response: Given, as noted above, that Python has a strong
      convention for indexing sequences starting at 0 and stopping at
      (inclusively) the index whose value is one less than the length
      of the sequence, it is argued that the proposed sequence is
      reasonably intuitive to the Python programmer while being useful
      and practical.  More importantly, it is argued that once learned
      this convention is very easy to remember.  Note that the doc
      string for the range function makes a reference to the
      natural and useful association between range(n) and the indices
      for a list whose length is n.

    - Possible ambiguity

          for i in 10: print i

      might be mistaken for

     for i in (10,): print i

      Response: This is exactly the same situation with strings in
      current Python (replace 10 with 'spam' in the above, for
      example).

    - Too general: in the newest releases of Python there are
      contexts -- as with for-loops -- where iterators are called
      implicitly.  Some fear that having an iterator invoked for
      an integer in one of the context (excluding for-loops) might
      lead to unexpected behavior and bugs.  The "x, = 1" example
      noted above is an a case in point.

      Response: From the author's perspective the examples of the
      above that were identified in the PEP 276 discussions did
      not appear to be ones that would be accidentally misused
      in ways that would lead to subtle and hard-to-detect errors.

      In addition, it seems that there is a way to deal with this
      issue by using a variation of what is outlined in the
      specification section of this proposal.  Instead of adding
      an __iter__ method to class int, change the for-loop handling
      code to convert (in essense) from

          for i in n:  # when isinstance(n,int) is 1

      to

          for i in xrange(n):

      This approach gives the same results in a for-loop as an
      __iter__ method would but would prevent iteration on integer
      values in any other context.  Lists and tuples, for example,
      don't have __iter__ and are handled with special code.
      Integer values would be one more special case.

    - "i in n" seems very unnatural.

      Response: Some feel that "i in len(mylist)" would be easily
      understandable and useful.  Some don't like it, particularly
      when a literal is used as in "i in 5".  If the variant
      mentioned in the response to the previous issue is implemented,
      this issue is moot.  If not, then one could also address this
      issue by defining a __contains__ method in class int that would
      always raise a TypeError.  This would then make the behavior of
      "i in n" identical to that of current Python.

    - Might dissuade newbies from using the indexed for-loop idiom when
      the standard "for item in collection:" idiom is clearly better.

      Response: The standard idiom is so nice when it fits that it
      needs neither extra "carrot" nor "stick".  On the other hand,
      one does notice cases of overuse/misuse of the standard idiom
      (due, most likely, to the awkwardness of the indexed for-loop
      idiom), as in:

       for item in sequence:
           print sequence.index(item)

    - Why not propose even bigger changes?

    The majority of disagreement with PEP 276 came from those who
    favor much larger changes to Python to address the more general
    problem of specifying a sequence of integers where such
    a specification is general enough to handle the starting value,
    ending value, and stepping value of the sequence and also
    addresses variations of open, closed, and half-open (half-closed)
    integer intervals.  Many suggestions of such were discussed.

    These include:

    - adding Haskell-like notation for specifying a sequence of
      integers in a literal list,

    - various uses of slicing notation to specify sequences,

    - changes to the syntax of for-in loops to allow the use of
      relational operators in the loop header,

    - creation of an integer-interval class along with methods that
      overload relational operators or division operators
      to provide "slicing" on integer-interval objects,

    - and more.

    It should be noted that there was much debate but not an
    overwhelming concensus for any of these larger-scale suggestions.

    Clearly, PEP 276 does not propose such a large-scale change
    and instead focuses on a specific problem area.  Towards the
    end of the discussion period, several posters expressed favor
    for the narrow focus and simplicity of PEP 276 vis-a-vis the more
    ambitious suggestions that were advanced.  There did appear to be
    concensus for the need for a PEP for any such larger-scale,
    alternative suggestion.  In light of this recognition, details of
    the various alternative suggestions are not discussed here further.


Implementation

    An implementation is not available at this time but is expected
    to be straightforward.  The author has implemented a subclass of
    int with an __iter__ method (written in Python) as a means to test
    out the ideas in this proposal, however.


References

    [1] PEP 234, Iterators
    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0234.html

    [2] PEP 204, Range Literals
    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0204.html

    [3] PEP 212, Loop Counter Iteration
    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0212.html


Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.



Local Variables:
mode: indented-text
indent-tabs-mode: nil
fill-column: 70
End:





From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 17:51:03 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:51:03 -0800
Subject: Parsing string into fixed-width pieces
In-Reply-To: <412F4D3C5614D211853600A0C99E563F0D0D80ED@com83-173.medicine.uiowa.edu>
References: <412F4D3C5614D211853600A0C99E563F0D0D80ED@com83-173.medicine.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <20020315145103.568623a3.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:44:45 -0600
Johnson, Brad wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to Python and have been combing the documentation and the message
> archive here for information on splitting a string into fix-width pieces.
 I
> assume their is an easy way to do this, I just don't seem to be able to
find
> it in the reference material.  Any suggestions?

Just use slices:
>>> s = "Hello, World"
>>> s[1]
'e'
>>> s[2:4]
'll'
>>> s[3:]
'lo, World'
>>> 

To split it up into 4 pieces of length 3 (assuming your lengths are all the
same):
>>> l = 3
>>> for slice in range(0, len(s), l):
...     print s[slice:slice + l]
... 
Hel
lo,
 Wo
rld
>>> 

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From holger at trillke.net  Thu Mar 21 21:22:53 2002
From: holger at trillke.net (holger at trillke.net)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:22:53 +0100
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
In-Reply-To: <oq7ko5xuxl.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>; from pinard@iro.umontreal.ca on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:17:26PM -0500
References: <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHIEBODJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com> <oq7ko5xuxl.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <20020322032253.B13555@prim.han.de>

> There is another tiny bit in that area which might be debated as well.
> 
> `__file__' is not defined for the `__main__' module.  But `sys.argv[0]' in
> that case contains the information one might have hoped out of `__file__'.
> I would like if `__file__' was just dependably defined in all circumstances,
> the best the Python interpreter can.  If this was done, the programmer would
> then not have to resort anymore to convoluted code for finding the directory
> and file for the current module.  

also inspect.getsourcelines and friends should work inside __main__.
I mean if you define a class in an module file you can get the source via
"inspect" but not so if (the same) file is executed as __main__. 

At least i don't currently understand why this is so.
Maybe because __main__ *can* mean that you are reading from stdin 
(e.g. python prompt)? 

Maybe it's because __file__ is not defined :-)

I'd really like to know ...

	holger krekel



From news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  2 14:29:08 2002
From: news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk (ddoc)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:29:08 +0000
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <a5r98d$vpi$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

> I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
> through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
> (highlighted in some way). 

Is this what Annotea (Annotation server from the W3C), Third Voice (now 
defunct , and to a lesser extent Allegra are for?


-- 
A


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Tue Mar 19 20:48:30 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:48:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82>, Chris Liechti wrote:
>mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) wrote in 
>news:slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no:
>
[snip]
>
>as i understand py2exe it does exactly that. it adds a new target 
>"py2exe" so that disutils have a new target name.
>
>i.e "python setup.py py2exe" generates the exe+dlls in the dist dir

Yes, I realise that, but...

  1. It only works on Windows; working on all platforms (as when
     compiling extensions with distutils) would be desirable;

  2. It's not a part of distutils (in the standard distribution).

My hope was that perhaps one day it would be possible (with a standard
Python installation) to create executables directly...

>-- 
>Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>
>

- Magnus (who also is a bit baffled as to why distutils doesn't
  include an "uninstall" command, such as the one implemented by
  Thomas Heller.)

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Thu Mar 21 19:23:26 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:23:26 +0100
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <slrna9htdq.5dl.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9A797E.E6476BEE@spam.nada.kth.se>

phil hunt wrote:

> IMO the requirement to say self everywhere in methods is the worst
> feature of python.

How come Python doesn't have an "automatic" this-variable, like C++ or
Java?


Bj?rn


From jcosby at mindspring.com  Fri Mar 29 18:43:07 2002
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Jon Cosby)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:43:07 -0800
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a82u6g$cdg$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98 at engcorp.com...

> > firstword = input("Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): ")    #Word to
build from
> > lword = len(firstword)
#Word length
> > words = []
# Dictionary list
> > cols = []
#Columns
> > rows = []
#Rows
>
> Comments might help a lot.  For example, it's unclear what you are
> trying to accomplish here, but it doesn't look quite right:
>
> > f = open(dict, "r")
> > for line in f.readlines():
> >  if len(line[:-1]) == lword:
> >   words.append(line[:-1])
#Retrieve words of length lword
> > f.close()
>
> That finds the line matching lword and appends it to words, I think,
> which is another way of saying that every instance of lword in the
> dict.txt file will be appended to the words list.  Strange...
>
> > for i in range(lword):
> >  cols.append([])
> >  rows.append([])
> > rows[0].append(firstword)
>
> For every character in lword, append an empty list to the rows
> and columns?  If that's what you want, you need range(len(lword))
> since range() takes an integer.  Didn't you get an exception
> here?

No, lword is the length of the initial word, there is no exception.

>
> > # Generate an array of words with matching first letters
> > for i in range(lword):
>
> Same problem as above... use len() with range().
>
> >  for word in words:
> >    if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found

Here is where it is failing. No matches are being found, but the only
criteria is the first letter.
I won't post the dictionary, but there are words meeting the criteria.

> >    cols[i].append(word)
> >
> > print len(words)
> > print cols
>
> Bad indentation here, but that's probably cosmetic.  Try not to
> use tabs when posting source, since many newsreaders screw them
> up.  Use spaces instead.
>
> Can you annotate your code so we know what you're trying to do?
>
> -Peter

I hope this helps. Sorry for not being more clear before.


Jon




From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar 27 10:06:35 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:06:35 GMT
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list at python.org>, 
	Chris Gonnerman wrote:
> Perhaps I'm stupid... what the heck is wrong with the OP's message?

Original material was added at the top of the post, and the entire
message being responded to was quoted below.  Usenet convention is to
do it the way I'm writing this message, by quoting only the few lines
of text I'm responding to and writing my answer below.  Doing this way
makes it much easier to pick up a thread in the middle, saves
bandwidth, and users reading the digested version of python-list don't
have to plow through 187 quoted copies of the same text again and
again.

I also view top-posting as rude; it implies the top-posting person's
time is so valuable they can't be bothered to edit down the quoted
text, but it's OK to waste *my* time by making me dig through levels
upon levels of quoted material.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Burroughs did something very odd with COBOL at one point (and no, it
wasn't The Naked Lunch).
    -- Will Rose, 27 May 2000


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 11 18:34:38 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:34:38 -0500
Subject: python and haskell for fun
In-Reply-To: <15501.8911.362214.989320@cmpu.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEJGODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Kendall Clark]
> ...
> However, John Paul Skaller did something similar with Ocaml, which he
> called Vyper, and that went over in the Py world like a leaden balloon
> -- actually it went over about as poorly as Stackless Python did;

Stackless actually has a loyal base of intense fans, because Stackless does
something they want.

John started Vyper because he wanted a faster means to execute his
InterScript system, but Vyper didn't get far enough along to run faster than
CPython.  The last word on that appears to be:

    [from http://vyper.sourceforge.net/]
    The interpreter Pystone benchmark is currently about 10 times
    slower than CPython 1.5.2. Considerable improvement is expected
    in the future.

John then segued into changing the language rules in ways that looked
more-or-less random to outsiders.

> which does cause me to wonder what it is about Python culture, if
> anything, that's resistant to unusual alternative implementations?

In Vyper's case, "speed" was the big selling point, but it never
materialized.  Some of his other experiments have since gotten into the
Python core, though (like list comprehensions).

In Stackless's case, the relative handful of people who need
ultra-lightweight "tasklets" were, and still are, delighted with it.

JPython has *many* users, and if you don't think reimplementing Python in
Java qualifies as an "unusual alternative", you may have been too young at
the time <wink>.

Bottom line:  An alternative will catch on to the extent that people
actually want what it actually does.

> A Python implementation in Haskell is probably a fool's task. Though
> given the various Haskell compilers, including some pretty impressive
> parallelizing stuff, it is an interesting idea.

If you're aiming at speed, don't get distracted by fiddling, and you'll find
a large audience -- if you succeed.  Something like "20% faster, most of the
time" probably wouldn't be enough to get anyone to bother switching, though.

let-alone-10x-slower<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 27 17:35:07 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:35:07 GMT
Subject: Regex problem ...
References: <a7s3lu$qfq$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <vOro8.25256$n8.6818@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

I don't think you can hook a function inside a regex in Python.

You probably want to use tagImg.match or tagImg.search to generate a match
object, and use that object to build a new string.  Of course this can get
annoying with really big HTML docs.  Check out the standard module
HTMLparser if you want to break the docs into smaller chunks before
processing.

--
-

"Barghest" <barghest at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:a7s3lu$qfq$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr...
> Hello,
> import re
> tagImg = re.compile( r"""(<img\s+src=")\.\./Images/([^"]*)("[^>]*>)""",
> re.IGNORECASE | re.MULTILINE | re.DOTALL )
>
> Wanna match ... <img src="../images/FOO.gif" height="12" etc...> and
replace
> it by
> <img src="foo.gif" height="12" ...>
>
> the problem is that i don't know how to lowercase the \g<2> part
> bp2.write( tagImg.sub( '\g<1>\g<2>\g<3>', buff ) )
>
> I tried
> tagImg.sub( string.lower( '\g<1>\g<2>\g<3>' ), buff )
> but it doesen't work ..
>
> Any idea ?
>
>




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Mar 17 07:58:02 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:58:02 GMT
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276@newsc.telia.net> <a709gk$m69$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <up0l8.25675$n4.5036019@newsc.telia.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> >the original code used Server -- after all, the object is
> >representing a remote server.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> But not functioning as?

if you look at it strictly from the client end, that object
represents, functions as, and for all practical purposes
*is* the server.

the fact that the actual service provider might be running
on another machine is almost entirely irrelevant.

    # client configuration

    # define what services we'll use later on
    spam = xmlrpclib.Server[Proxy](URL)
    egg = Egg() # local

    #
    # client implementation

    spam.cook()
    egg.fry()

> This is in good part an English usage issue, but
> IMO the term 'proxy' should not be used except when the
> proxy duplicates the function and stands transparently
> in place of that for which it is a proxy.

in this case, the term is used in its GOF sense: the ServerProxy
object is a "remote proxy", a "local representative for an object
in a different address space".

(strictly speaking, the server wrapper creates method proxies on
demand, and it's the method proxy that talks to the remote server,
but that's an implementation detail)

</F>




From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar  3 12:51:51 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 09:51:51 -0800
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <KyEd8.66437$dG.27580630@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <987e7uoo5v87fsjruq0ug6bff0vha5ear0@4ax.com> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>
Message-ID: <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291 at news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>,
Frederic Giacometti <frederic.giacometti at arakne.com> wrote:
>
>In addition to all the benefits that Christian has described so far,
>stackless python would make it possible to have a different OS
>multi-threading implementation for calling external C/C++ libraries; one
>that does not require interpreter lock operations.
>
> [...]
>
>Stackless just means that function calls executed by the bytecode are
>executed by a C function that returns immediately; thus disconnecting
>the C call stack from the virtual machine call stack.  In current
>python, they are interleaved one-on-one; making it impossible to switch
>context within the VM unnless you do Christian's last 'non-portable'
>assembly language manipulation.

How's that again?  In the absence of pre-emptive thread scheduling, what
good is the immediate return from the C function?  More than that, how
can you possibly call external libraries without the interpreter lock,
if those libraries have any access to Python variables?  If they *don't*
have access to Python, how is that any different from just using the
macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 10 11:27:07 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:27:07 -0600
Subject: range Failure?
In-Reply-To: <3C8B84B6.DB3F8E9A@sympatico.ca>
References: <3C8B84B6.DB3F8E9A@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <15499.35163.932422.622100@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Colin> What you say is, on reflection, obvious.  Perhaps the doc could
    Colin> better bring this out?

Yes.  Can you please file a bug on SourceForge with your suggested wording
change?

Thx,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
"As often happens in Net communities, people find all kinds of energy to
compose incisive criticisms of the threads and postings of other members,
when they could be directing that energy towards brilliant new threads and
postings of their own." - Tom Neff



From miah at picsel.com  Mon Mar  4 06:47:03 2002
From: miah at picsel.com (Miah Gregory)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:47:03 GMT
Subject: cross platform (linux/windows) problem
References: <f5c74c0f4b.miah@picsel.com> <u664ibmwn.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <a169ea114b.miah@picsel.com>

In message <u664ibmwn.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
          David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:

> Miah Gregory <miah at picsel.com> writes:

> > Simple example which works for linux:

> You may need to have some per-platform support, since I do think you
> need to use the popen2.Popen3 class under Unix to get exit codes, but
> that isn't supported under Windows.

Strangeness.. I'm getting exit codes under windows ok, just not in the
expected format. This is with os.popen3.

> Note that your sample Linux code might have a problem in that you
> don't drain the output from the piped child until you've gotten an
> exit code, but if the child generates more output than the system
> pipes can buffer, the child may block and never exit until you drain
> the data.  Unless you know the output from the child is limited, I'd
> suggest draining the data as it runs (even if you just save it for
> later use).

As far as output goes, I'm only expecting about 1k of text, max. If it does
start to play up, I'll start reading, as you suggest.

> Under Windows, you should just be able to use os.popen3 directly.  Do
> the same draining of data until the process exits.  Then close the
> files you received from os.popen3 - the final one you close (from the
> full set of stdin/stdout/stderr) will return the exit code of the
> child process.

Yes, os.popen3 seems to work fine. Unfortunately, it's not available in
python 1.5.2, which I have on my linux machine.

-- 
Miah Gregory


From Ken.Peek at Engineer.com  Thu Mar 28 12:14:47 2002
From: Ken.Peek at Engineer.com (Ken Peek)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 09:14:47 -0800
Subject: I am Tarage your new ruler
References: <oIvn8.2201$kU2.261216@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com> <1eg4au4ntod5fe1u1eu91k51n8aovsn6gd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cfcf4b0d.0203280914.2363592c@posting.google.com>

Lou Moran wrote in message news:
> > On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:46:44 GMT, "Tarage" <ufr_tarage at yahoo.com>
> > wrote a glowing report about my Usenet practices:
> >
> > That's right you stupid, inbred, 
>
> OK You win.  Can you write a Perl script to amend my signature?


{...kids...}


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 12:20:30 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:20:30 GMT
Subject: Remove empty lines
References: <3C98C025.7741BA58@ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <yx3m8.321016$pN4.20992361@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Kristin Skoglund" <krists at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:3C98C025.7741BA58 at ifi.uio.no...

> I am trying to make a script that reads javafiles and remove
comments
> and empty lines. The script looks like this......
>     lines=re.split("\n",str)
>     for line in lines:   # Here I try to remove the emty lines
>         if line== '':
>             continue
>         elif empty:
>            continue
What is empty?  Not set in code you posted

>         else:
>             tmp.append(line) # not needed for example
>             newfile.write(line)

> ...and everything works except the removal of empty lines. Does
anyone
> knoe whats wrong?

No.  I would make a file with known contents: completely blank, with
spaces, same part with comments, bracketed by nonblank lines.  Then
print out before or after split to see what have after
comment-removing substitution.

Terry J. Reedy





From bosahv at netscapenospam.net  Wed Mar 20 21:13:58 2002
From: bosahv at netscapenospam.net (Bo Vandenberg)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:13:58 GMT
Subject: Python Helping Human Rights
Message-ID: <Glbm8.5608$_L.5255@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Wired  http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51106,00.html has an
article about Patrick Ball who gathers and manages information about human
rights abuses.

"With the methodical manner of a forensic examiner who uses statistics and
open-source software instead of scalpels and x-rays, Ball undermined
Milosevic's claim that NATO and rebel forces -- and not Milosevic's own Serb
army -- caused ethnic Albanian deaths and displacement in Kosovo."

He used Python and MySQL to graph the rate and timing of the  Kosovo murders
and expulsions.

"At the trial in The Hague, Ball -- a sociologist, statistician and coder --
told the court that when he mapped the locations of the deaths and the
patterns of the refugee flows out of Kosovo in 1999, he saw an unmistakable
method in how they occurred over time and space."

He says that open source software is ideal because work in it is easily
reproduced, and there is a far lower price barrier for poorer
nations\organizations.


What an accolade for open source and Python. Makes me feel good to be
working in this software.


Bo






From uwe at rocksport.de  Wed Mar 27 05:07:57 2002
From: uwe at rocksport.de (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:07:57 GMT
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com> <a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org> <a7qps1$7u2s9$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <mailman.1017184186.13808.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7s5lt$80na7$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:

| To have it in a frame, simply create another class similar to InputDialog
| that uses a wxFrame instead.  With this, you can also embed the panel in
| something else, for instance a wxNotebook.

O.k, thats very helpful and "elegant"...

Thanks, Uwe


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 16 13:43:14 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:43:14 -0500
Subject: Help Setting PATH w/Python and Win98
References: <b8245cf2.0203160920.2fe59c7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C939242.8AF08E5D@engcorp.com>

Al wrote:
> 
> I am new to programming and am currently doing a Python Tutorial at
>  http://softwaredev.earthweb.com/sdopen/article/0,,12382_626311,00.html
> 
> On that page it says I must set the path in Windows to the directory
> where the Python.exe is located so that I can execute Python script.
> I can get around DOS a bit to do this but not sure how to do it
> exactly.  Could someone tell me what I must do?

If you edit the PATH line in your c:\autoexec.bat file to include
the path to the Python directory and reboot, it will work.  If
the directory is c:\python22 for example, you should add the following
to the PATH line: ";c:\python22" (no quotation marks but include the
semicolon.  For example, you might have

SET PATH=c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\python22

> Also it says I must make the directory containing my first script file
> my CURRENT DIRECTORY from the COMMAND PROMPT IN DOS. How do I do this
> too?

You open a DOS prompt from the Start menu (Programs-->MSDOS Prompt) and
then type 'CD directoryname' where directoryname represents the name 
of the folder where you saved your script.  If this were in My Documents,
you would type   CD "My Documents"  for example (include the quotation
marks if there are spaces in the directory name).

On the other hand, the DOS environment is really not a very good place
for a beginner to work, so I would suggest you investigate using the
IDLE development environment instead.  If you installed Python properly,
your Start menu should include a selection for Python and in that, IDLE.
Run that and go from there.  Much easier than DOS!  Good luck.

-Peter


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar 31 21:37:06 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 1 Apr 2002 02:37:06 GMT
Subject: Root access with python
References: <d906b2c1.0203250237.60f6ad12@posting.google.com> <7x663krjtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <a7ndu9$bme$1@panix1.panix.com> <20020325123855.A1716@ibook.distro.conectiva> <mailman.1017071438.28406.python-list@python.org> <Ou4o8.17920$Ii4.1702@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a88h4i$1v8n$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <Ou4o8.17920$Ii4.1702 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>, Steve Holden wrote:
>"Andy Gimblett" <gimbo at ftech.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1017071438.28406.python-list at python.org...

>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 12:38:55PM -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:

>>> You have several options to do this, and all of them involve setting the
>>> setuid bit in some executable. OTOH, setting setuid bit on scripts
>>> usually doesn't work. If that's your case, you'll have to freeze your
>>> script into a native executable, or build some kind of wrapper. Google
>>> for "setuid bit scripts" for more information.

>> As a general solution to this kind of problem, sudo is excellent,
>> though it might be overkill for this particular case.

> The problem is that sudo also required you to authenticate yourself
> periodically, albeit as an ordinary user rather than root. I suppose there
> may be an option to not require authentication, but any such device is
> theoretically dangerous.

> As far as setuid scripts goes, just say no. There are far too many security
> holes in almost every Unix to think that it's safe to use setuid scripts.

> regards
> Steve

  sudo has a "NOPASSWD" modifier that can be selectively added
  to the /etc/sudoers file to allow specific users or groups 
  to execute specific commands (with some controls over acceptable
  arguments) without performing any authentication.

  Naturally this option is necessary for cron jobs and the like.

  As for your overall "advice."  It's of little value to tell
  someone: "don't do that" without offering any suggestion about
  what he or she SHOULD try.

  Whenever discussing computer system security I avoid 
  proscriptive pronouncements like: "you can't do that" or 
  "no one should ..."

  I start with my definition of "security" (the enforcement of
  policy) and I ask: what are the policies that need to be enforced.
  (Policies are requirements that relate of the confidentiality, 
  availability and/or integrity of any resource or resources).  From 
  there I look at possible measures (actions taken or techniques
  employed to prevent, detect or recover from security violations).
  Finally, I select the measures that make sense (where the estimated 
  level of risk mitigation is proportional to the cost and effort).

  However, when we recognize policies as just a subset of requirements
  we also realize that conflicting requirements need resolution.
  So, the OP has one stated requirement (that his or her CGI script
  be able to run, including a particular requirement that it run
  some particular privileged operation).  We (in our responses) are
  inferring a set of *implicit* additional requirements (that the 
  program should not be vulnerable to subversion be otherwise
  exploitable).  

  When we say, "you can't do that," we're imposing requirements on the 
  OP without regard for his or her other requirements and without 
  regard for any risk assessment or cost/benefit analysis that he or
  she may have done.

  Unfortunately I don't know how to make SUID python scripts.  In my
  current ignorance I'd have to recommend sperl with "taint checking,"
  or a sudoers entry, or a small SUID C wrapper program. 
 



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Mar 16 04:57:02 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:57:02 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com><a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de><7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net><a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk><mailman.1016138490.22557.python-list@python.org><a6sl8j$4au$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <mailman.1016216313.28262.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <OFEk8.32488$l93.6362467@newsb.telia.net>

Tim Legant wrote:

> I wonder why /F thought the bar() version would be faster.

I'm still at 2.1.X.

but fwiw, i += 1 is still a wee bit faster under 2.2 on my bench-
mark (windows build, 100000 list items, trivial loop body).

</F>




From caw at cs.mu.oz.au  Fri Mar 29 17:52:23 2002
From: caw at cs.mu.oz.au (Chris Wright)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:52:23 +1100
Subject: Where's the "news" section on python.org?
Message-ID: <496p8.71$l%4.11431@ozemail.com.au>

It seems that the "News" section on python.org has vanished from my
screen...

Anyone else see this?

:(

Chris Wright




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 18 16:46:16 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:46:16 +0100
Subject: python 2.1.2, Linux and 'os' library:    bug or (bad) feature?
References: <a754no$r3j$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <m3d6y1ft1z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Pawel Oleksik <oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl> writes:

>     os.execv('/usr/X11R6/bin/X',('X',':'+`display`,))
> 
> I do expect in the /proc/<PID>/cmdline a string like:
> 
>     'X\x00:'+`display`+'\x00'
> 
> and in P2.0/P2.1.1 is that.
> 
> What I got with P2.1.2 was: '.X\x00:'+`display`+'\x00'
>                             ^^^
> 
> Is that a punishment for ours bad behaviour, or what?
> Has anybody met this problem? Could you carry out tests with P2.2?

I think the is the doing of X itself: start the same program from the
shell prompt, and you should observe the same behaviour.

Regards,
Martin



From gminick at hacker.pl  Thu Mar 14 13:09:18 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:09:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need advice for obfuscating Python code
References: <JHTe8.18749$0y2.1063258@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1014762381.31395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna91pqr.dh.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.
Dnia Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:23:05 -0600, Skip Montanaro napisa?(a):
>    Sandeep> I've written a product in Python and I wanted to find out how
>    Sandeep> best to obfuscate the code.  I want the distributed files to be
>    Sandeep> moderately hard to reverse engineer.
>Rewrite in Perl? ;-)
Python's code could be obfuscated too.
Need an example ? ;)
<http://hacker.pl/gminick/pliki/lusss.py>

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://hacker.pl/gminick/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) klub.chip.pl ]


From Olav.viken at kmss.no  Tue Mar  5 16:59:58 2002
From: Olav.viken at kmss.no (Olav Viken)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:59:58 GMT
Subject: Pyhon and PIL
Message-ID: <ydbh8.4830$TU3.128876@news4.ulv.nextra.no>

Hi, I'm using Python Imaging Library (PIL) to convert a lot bmp-files from
color to monochrome images. This works, but all images are dithered
(grayscale), and what I want is to set "all colors (except white) to black".

My code looks something like this:

import Image
im = Image.open("yellow.bmp")
im = im.convert("1", dither=Image.NONE)
im.save("yellow.bmp")

Anyone?

Thanks
Olav




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar 18 16:02:48 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:02:48 -0800
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
Message-ID: <OF100968C1.5A6E9B08-ON88256B80.00721AD4@i2.com>

[huaiyu]
|What I meant was that if you define items(A) to return an iterator,
|and write a program using 'for i,x in items(A)', it will work for
|any sequence A.  Users who supply A do not need to do anything.

They have to do *something*.  They have to make sure that A supports
whatever protocol is assumed in the implementation of the "items" function.
That is, A *has* to be a "sequence" or whatever is assumed by items().

|The implementation of items(A) might reuse some of code implementing
|the implicit iterators.  But it could be as simple as wrapping around
|iter(A).
|
|On the other hand, if you define A.items(), and write a program using
|'for i,x in A.items()', it only works if A.items is defined.

But that also means that it *will* work if A.items is defined even if A
does not implement every "sequence" method.  So A.items is *more* general
than items(A) in that sense.  items(A) becomes more general only if it
first tries to call A.items (or A.__items__, or whatever) and failing that
then tries to use a sequence or other protocol as a back up.  If not, then
you are *restricting* things to "sequences" only (or whatever else happens
to be hardcoded in the items() function implementation).

|If later
|on you want to use it for a different kind of A, you have to make sure
|it has the right .items() method.  This pushes the burden to the users
|of the program.

Or, depending on how you think of it, it provides *generality* to the
users.

Jim




From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sun Mar 31 18:33:04 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:33:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Cannot find what I'm sure is a simple command... please help
In-Reply-To: <3ca7978b.251291804@mammoth.usenet-access.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020331153304.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 31-Mar-2002 A. Jones wrote:
> I seem to have either overlooked, or completely missed a function that
> allows one to open a specific line of a file.
> 
> I've read through my Learning Python book, and read the relevent
> module docs (anything having to do with files, and the __builtins__).
> I must have overlooked such a function.
> 
> I thought the seek() function might work, but it only seems to give me
> a byte offset in the file, and not a line number.
> 

there is no way to do this with the libraries shipped with python.

An obvious implementation is:

def get_desired_line(filename, desired_line):
  fp = open(filename)
  lines = fp.readlines()
  return lines[desired_line - 1]






From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 11 08:41:20 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:41:20 +0000
Subject: Changing Working Directory in Windows
In-Reply-To: <3c8cb05d.221547919@news.earthlink.net>
References: <3c8cb05d.221547919@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020311134120.GG8670@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 01:28:53PM +0000, nrk at cmcorp.com wrote:
> I'm brand new to Python.  Can someone tell me how to change a working
> directory in a script on a Windows system?

Use os.chdir()

> What does the pathname specification look like?

Like any other pathname specification on your platform.  I use linux
so it's like '/usr/local/bin', but since you're on Windows, I guess
it'd be something like 'C:\WIN32\SYSTEM\' or similar?

What does os.getcwd() return?  That'll give you a clue as to the
format you should use.  On my box:

>>> import os
>>> os.getcwd()
'/home/gimbo'

Also, check out os.path.split() and os.path.join() (and all the other
os.path calls!) for manipulating pathnames in a platform-sensitive
manner.

> Can I use an absolute path name when referring to a file?

Absolutely.  :-)

For more information on these topics, see:

  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.html
  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-file-dir.html
  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.path.html

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 17:57:44 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:57:44 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com> <a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org> <a7qps1$7u2s9$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <3CA0FCE8.8D8FE0D7@ccvcorp.com>


Uwe Schmitt wrote:

> Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> | That may be the case, but Jeff brought up some good points.  It looks odd
> | to create a window in this fashion (it looks procedural rather than OO).  A
> | more typical approach would be something like:
>
> I know what you mean, but I'd like to write a general procedure
> which generates an input/output mask based on a relational database
> describption. And this mask may appear in a wxFrame *or* a wxDialog.
> So I use the "parent" of the mask as a parameter of my function...

Then create your controls on a wxPanel, and then add that panel to either your
frame or your dialog.  The wxPanel will have the added benefit that, even in a
frame, it will handle tabbing between controls, etc, correctly.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 11 12:27:43 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:27:43 +0000
Subject: Definition problem
In-Reply-To: <20020311171132.GD12733@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
References: <rpalton-097137.10024611032002@news.videotron.ca> <20020311171132.GD12733@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
Message-ID: <20020311172743.GE12733@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

OK, forgot to attach the file...  Sorry!  :-)

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.
-------------- next part --------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

from MMTK import *
from MMTK import Bonds

class MyMolecule(Molecule):
    
    def __init__(self, name, atoms, bonds):
        
        self.atoms = []
        self.bonds = []
        self.groups = []
        self.name = name
        
        for element, position in atoms:
            self.atoms.append(Atom(element, position = position))
            
        for i1, i2 in bonds:
            self.bonds.append(Bonds.Bond((self.atoms[i1], self.atoms[i2])))

        self.bonds = Bonds.BondList(self.bonds)
        self.parent = None # top-level object
        self.type = None # no database type

h2 = MyMolecule('h2', [('h', Vector(0., 0., -0.05)),
                       ('h', Vector(0.,0., 0.05))], [(0, 1)])

h2.writeToFile('test.pdb')

From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Wed Mar 27 10:08:58 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:08:58 +0100
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <sca1ee9d.067@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

>>> Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> 03/27/02 15:48 PM >>>
"FREDRIK HULDTGREN" <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> writes:
> I should have been more specific, yes I am talking about cryptology,
and
> sadly enough I am runnign win2k, the unix stuff goes out the window.
As
> for how large of numbers I am looking for, I'd say about 512bit
numbers
> should do it(perhaps larger, depens on how slow it becomes). Got any
> URLs that explain Fermat/Miller-Rabin tests?

By the way, use gmpy if you can.  It's about 10x faster than Python's
built-in arithmetic for long modexps.

Where can I get gmpy?
/fredrik




From aahzpy at panix.com  Sat Mar 23 02:22:06 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 02:22:06 -0500
Subject: sgmlParser infinite loop?  How to empty and re-user parser object?
References: <mailman.1016845955.10065.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7haeu$4ll$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016845955.10065.python-list at python.org>,
Nick Arnett <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
>
>I was getting it sometimes every dozen or two documents, but... I
>realized I wasn't calling reset properly -- I was leaving off the empty
>parentheses, which produces no error, but doesn't actually reset the
>object, apparently.  That seems to have improved things considerably,
>but not completely.

Not really up for dealing with your actual question, but I wanted to
demonstrate the "bug" you found in a more interesting context:

    def red():
        print "red"
    
    def green():
        print "green"
    
    switch = {'red':red, 'green':green}
    switch[getColor()]()

Fun, huh?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar  6 22:58:48 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:58:48 +1100 
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1EA@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Greg Ewing [mailto:greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz]
>
> > Or is it the intention that the construct is *not* limited 
> strictly to the
> > Python builtin classes "int" and "long"?  Will it work for 
> any class that
> > defines __lt__, __lg__, __gt__, __ge__, __add__, and 
> __radd__ methods, for
> > example?
> 
> So, floats will have to be treated as a special case,
> and if we're having special cases, it would be better to
> have *only* special cases -- i.e. restrict it to types
> that we'res sure we know enough about to do the right
> thing with. That means ints, longints and floats.

In that case, I must strongly oppose this PEP. Adding new *syntax* to
enhance only a few types in a way which looks nice, but has severe
limitations, is IMO the wrong thing to do.

As far as I can see, the only advantages to this PEP now are that it looks
nicer than range(), and it is easier to construct in some cases.

Tim Delaney



From cbbrowne at acm.org  Sun Mar 10 15:29:37 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:37 -0500
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com>

Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) would write:
> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:21:39 GMT, Gerson Kurz <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>!0,1.!1,1.!2,1.!3,1.,.@?0.!4,?0.!0,?1.~4,?0.!1,?4.~2,?3.!5,?2.A5,10.-5
>>
>>will print the first ten fibonacci numbers.
>
> I wonder what it does in Perl?

I don't _want_ to know what it does.  

I could imagine being curious as to how TECO would cope with it, but
not seriously.

You might ask the "autocoding" guy if he'd be interested in adding
this as an alternative syntax for his scheme; it might well be more
readable than other options...
-- 
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@acm.org")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/emacs.html
Rules of the  Evil Overlord #135.  "My doomsday  machine will have the
advanced technological device called  a capacitor just in case someone
inconveniently pulls the plug at the last moment. (If I have access to
REALLY  advanced technology, I  will include  the even  better back-up
device known as the "battery.")"  <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 12:16:12 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:16:12 +0000
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000 at cens.ioc.ee>, Pearu
Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes
.....
>> 
>> So open is now a file? That seems a bit odd to me.
>
>Correction: open is the type of file.
>
>> It seems that some built ins now have the type of the object they
>> create. Pretty weird logic.  
>
>Correction: some built ins are the type of the object they create.
>
>Notice that in 2.2 types and classes are unified.
>
yes I heard about that, but the semantics seem strange to me.
open is not a file it is a function that produces an open file. It's now
not even amongst the built ins.

what does X==type(X()) imply?
-- 
Robin Becker


From corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com  Mon Mar 11 12:29:33 2002
From: corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com (Corrado Gioannini)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:29:33 +0100
Subject: lambda question
In-Reply-To: <29A97D00F387D411AC7900902770E148044AAFEB@lcoeexc01.coelce.net>
References: <29A97D00F387D411AC7900902770E148044AAFEB@lcoeexc01.coelce.net>
Message-ID: <20020311182933.B1084@zephyr>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 02:06:51PM -0300, Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce wrote:
> second code:
> 
> 	def exe1(f,list):
> 		return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> 
> Can someone explain to me why the first code works while second doesn't.
try this:

def exe1(f, list):
    return map(lambda x, y=f: eval(y), list)

cheers,
Corrado
-- 
Corrado Gioannini
<corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com>

Nekhem Technologies
Tel.: (+39) 011 4407581

-
"Thought is only a flash between two long nights,
                                         but this flash is everything."
                                                          (H. Poincar?)



From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Fri Mar 15 07:30:10 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:30:10 -0500
Subject: line-by-line file read
Message-ID: <20020315073010.A13530@phy.duke.edu>

OK, so the wonderful flow of the "warty range" thread inspired me to
ask the following style question:

I often find myself reading and processing a file line-by-line.  The
way I usually end up doing it goes something like this

    fo = open(filename)
    line = fo.readline()
    while line:
	# do the processing on "line" here
        line = fo.readline()
    fo.close()

In perl [this is the way to get responses on this list :)] I would do
some variation on

    open(IN, $filename);
    while ($line = <IN>) {
        # do the processing on "$line" here
    }
    close(IN);

I like the perl way better because it seems inelegant to have the
"line =" line repeated, and also because leaving off the second
"line =" is a common bug, albeit one that's usually found
immediately.

Anyway... just wondering if there's a preferred way to do this.

					-Michael

P.S.  I'm not trying to start a perl/python thing, really.  The only
reason I bring it up is I've been porting most of my old perl stuff to
python, and this is one of the very few things that seems "nicer" in
perl.  Much to my surprise, things are often _shorter_ in python, too!

-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From khirmint at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 18:08:19 2002
From: khirmint at hotmail.com (Ken)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:08:19 -0800
Subject: Another socket/thread question
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net> <3C8FA777.8A5B07D1@accessforall.nl>
Message-ID: <a6om55$mjh$1@horsefly.nf.net>

I thought so as well.. but it doesn't seem to. When I call the close ()
function on the socket object, it just sits there untill I send another
keybord interupt. I also tried the socket.shutdown function as well.

Would've been an ideal solution though..

"Ype Kingma" <ykingma at accessforall.nl> wrote in message
news:3C8FA777.8A5B07D1 at accessforall.nl...
>
>
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > Hey everyone..
> >
> > I've got a thread that continously listens to a socket, and reports what
it
> > receives. Blocking is turned on, and I would like it to stay that way
since
> > the only thing the thread has to do, is listen to the socket.
> >
> > My question is when the socket needs to be closed (program shuts down,
or
> > that user is being disconnected by the server) is it possible to
interupt a
> > socket.recv ()?
>
> When you close the socket from another thread or by the server,
> the pending socket.recv() should terminate with some error condition.
> It's best to test both situations, however.
>
> Have fun,
> Ype




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Mar  9 19:38:58 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:38:58 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: broken pipes, import errors (LONG, INVOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <20020309071754.GA8360@isis.gerrietts.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0203101129260.111-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Geoff Gerrietts wrote:

> When you try to import a module twice, import just does nothing (or at
> least very little) after the first effort. In fact, when you first
> import, Python caches a copy of the module in the global namespace.
> When you subsequently import, it re-uses that cached copy.
>
> The cached copy is also corrupt.

This sounds nasty if something is diddling with the cached copy.

I skimmed, but didn't save, your original posting so the following
might have already been answered:-
Since it worked, have you...
- changed python installations?
- changed OS installations?
- changed hardware?

If any of these changed, describing the before and after environments
might be helpfull (longshot though).

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Mar 22 02:31:07 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 18:31:07 +1100
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <1016756258.554.46.camel@localhost>
References: <20020321235029.B66B438F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>
	<1016756258.554.46.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <m3d6xxys78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

>> The intention is that Albatross templates be valid XML - while
>> Albatross will do the expected thing in the example you give above,
>> it generally provides a "better" way, such as:
>> 
>> <al-img expr="something">

Ian> Do you mean that you have a template tag for every kind of tag
Ian> for which you would want to modify an attribute?  That's every
Ian> single HTML tag -- IMG is hardly the only one.  A dynamic CSS
Ian> class attribute, for instance, or events (onMouseOver, etc), id
Ian> tags, background colors...  there's a million possibilities.

I think I can see your point.  If I knew the perfect solution I would
have tried implementing that.

Ian> Plus you've got the same problems ZPT has, where it's not really
Ian> proper -- or perhaps even possible -- to dynamically generate CSS
Ian> or Javascript with your language, since they are generally
Ian> guarded by comments and are thus opaque to XML.

Ian> XML just seems so darn *hard*.

I tried doing the ZPT thing - it made the template loading run like a
slug on valium.  You end up with at least one object for every tag and
every attribute.  With the Albatross templates you only end up with
objects for the Albatross tags and attributes.  As machines get faster
this will not be such an issue.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Mar 20 11:01:12 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:01:12 +0000
Subject: Process to process synchronization (unix)
References: <a6tn83$nh6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <83pu20ieob.fsf@panacea.canonical.org> <a7a61c$27ra$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <a7a7vl$29up$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Gillou wrote:
> I need to learn those named pipes.
> Are there pythonic examples somewhere ?

Here are an awfully simple example of two scripts speaking to each other. 
The principle is that the first run creates the named pipe if it doesn't 
already exist, then opens it and tries either to write something to it, or 
to read something from it. Here are the two scripts:

-- Writing script --------------
import os

pipeName = 'np.pipe'

## If named pipe does not exist, create it
if not os.path.exists(pipeName):
  os.mkfifo(pipeName)

## Open pipe and say something through it
print "Opening"
p = open(pipeName, 'w')
print "Sending..."
p.write("Wot?")
## Over
print "Done."
p.close()
print "Closed."
---------------------------

-- Reading script --------------
import os

pipeName = 'np.pipe'

## If named pipe does not exist, create it
if not os.path.exists(pipeName):
  os.mkfifo(pipeName)

## Open pipe and try to read something from it
print "Opening"
p = open(pipeName, 'r')
print "Reading..."
s = p.read()
## Over
print "Received %s" % s
p.close()
print "Closed."
---------------------------

So the important function here is os.mkfifo, creating the named pipe. It 
just creates a pseudo-file in the current directory, which can be opened 
like any other file. But trying to read from it will block until there is 
some other process writing to it, and the same in reverse: writing is 
blocking until someone reads at the other end.

Try the two scripts: you must run them as 2 different processes (in 2 
different xterms, for example). You may start whichever you want first: it 
will stop, and resume execution only when the other one is started. You may 
also try to add some time.sleep between the opening and/or reading and see 
what happens.

HTH. Good luck!
 - eric -



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 14 20:28:59 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:28:59 -0800
Subject: data persistent from run
References: <c4e6b17d.0203131522.695853b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C914E5B.FCF22831@ccvcorp.com>


Bob Roberts wrote:

> What is the best way to keep data like window size and position for
> the next time I run the program?  I know in win2k, stuff like that is
> usually stored in the registry.  Are there any python commands to
> store such information in a platform-independent manner?

IIRC, there's a ConfigParser module in the standard library, that should
do what you want.  If you're using wxPython, it also includes a wxConfig
class, which is what I've used.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From fpm at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar  4 12:07:29 2002
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 17:07:29 GMT
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015085345.6196.python-list@python.org> <Xns91C68AFA9D232andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.104> <mailman.1015217468.19186.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a609kh$iu4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1015217468.19186.python-list at python.org>,
Wayne Pierce  <wayne at mishre.com> wrote:
>
>>>From the BlackAdder readme file:
>>>The license of the Beta version prevents run-time components of the
>>>Business Edition being distributed with your applications. This 
>>>restriction will be removed when the final version is released.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> Yes, but _when_ will the final version be released?
>
>Bad form!  You need two __'s on each side! ;)
>
> > Not that I have anything I might want to distribute, but I see fro my
> > records that I paid for the beta nearly a year ago, and in that time
> > there has been one update, last summer, and since then a resounding
> > silence. It would be a shame if the project just sputtered and died.
> > There are all sorts of unselfish reasons for hoping that some
> > company (or kompany) figures out a way to make money from Linux
> > sometime.
>
>Same here.  I haven't had a need to distribute the software I wrote yet 
>without source but I may have to in the future; unfortunately I didn't 
>catch that clause in the readme or I probably wouldn't have bought BA.
>
>Anyone out there have recommendations on a good IDE with form designer, 
>that's not Beta?  Nothing too fancy...I've tried wxDesigner, but 
>couldn't figure out that spacer stuff for the life of me.

I found glade more "intuitive" for me, once I got started.  Biggest
downside is that if your app needs to run on Windows, getting libglade
to run on WinXX platforms can be a pain.  On Linux, it's a snap.  With
Qt, you just pay...

	-frank
-- 


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Mar 23 00:20:07 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 16:20:07 +1100
Subject: Python Sybase mailing list released
Message-ID: <m3n0wz273s.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

What is it:

The python-sybase mailing list is a list where users of the Sybase
module for Python can discuss issues concerning the module.

Since the person who wrote the Sybase module is a hopeless joke who
only has access to the Linux platform and knows less than all of the
module users, the list is a good place for modules users to discuss
platform issues at the very least.


Where is it:

    https://www.object-craft.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/python-sybase

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar  1 00:40:22 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 14:40:22 +0900
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <a5last$23p$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <87u1s0eth5.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Carel" == Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> writes:

    Carel> Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

    Carel> Now that we have your attention, what's your personal
    Carel> opinion on using something else but ascii (in whatever
    Carel> encoding:) for the code itself (things like keywords and
    Carel> variable names).

My _very_ personal opinion is that identifiers can be run through an
online dictionary, and I'm fortunate to be pretty good at languages,
so that's fun.  Nor do I do programming for a living, I can afford to
concentrate on "fun."

My opinion as a teacher is that I'd really like to be able to teach
programming to my freshmen with a language that uses Japanese
identifiers (including reserved words) and syntax (Japanese is a
reverse Polish language).

    Carel> My Western centered view would be that it would make
    Carel> reading code harder, but that's probably what the rest of
    Carel> the world already experiences.

For "real-world" use, I mostly agree that sticking to English is
better, for code.  None of the Japanese programmers I know feel that
use of English for identifiers and reserved words hinders them.  In
fact, some think it may help somewhat, as it allows them to abstract
from any connotations that the word may have in natural language.
(Note that this implies that second courses in programming should use
an English-based language.)

There are exceptions, however.  I maintain code that implements
Japanese input methods in XEmacs, and even native speakers of Japanese
sometimes get confused about what certain identifiers drawn from
English, or even romanized Japanese, are supposed to mean.

On the other hand, edict.el, which implements morphological
transformations for dictionary lookup, uses mixed English-Japanese
identifiers.  The verbs (search, transform, etc) are English; the
parts of speech and technical names for transformations are Japanese
(ie, ideographs).  Nobody (who is competent to understand what the
code does) ever makes a mistake.

This is a very special case, of course.  But you can imagine many
cases where an organization has internal practices that would best be
described in native vocabulary.  Then it's a tradeoff between
short-term maintainability and long-term internationalizability.

    Carel> I even try to stick to English in my comments, just in case
    Carel> some foreignor might have to look at it:)

If it weren't for the "groetjes, carel" in your .sig, I'd not be able
to say with confidence you're not a native English-speaker.  Despite
the excellent English educational system, I cannot say the same for
Indians in general.  Most are sufficiently fluent that your practice
would make sense, but many are not.  And Japanese are legendarily bad
at English.

A correct comment in an illegible character set is harmless, although
perhaps frustrating; an incorrect one that you can read is dangerous.
So I'd have to say that except for the very worst cases, there are
benefits to having code in English, or near-English, vocabulary.  But
comments should be written in a language you can use for teaching.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From nrk at cmcorp.com  Mon Mar 11 08:28:53 2002
From: nrk at cmcorp.com (nrk at cmcorp.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:28:53 GMT
Subject: Changing Working Directory in Windows
Message-ID: <3c8cb05d.221547919@news.earthlink.net>

I'm brand new to Python.  Can someone tell me how to change a working
directory in a script on a Windows system?

What does the pathname specification look like?
Can I use an absolute path name when referring to a file?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Norm Kashdan


From gherman at europemail.com  Mon Mar  4 10:41:42 2002
From: gherman at europemail.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:41:42 +0100
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com> <a5sb2n$f2j$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <gherman-8DACFF.16414204032002@news.t-online.com>

In article <a5sb2n$f2j$1 at news.idiom.com>,
 jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) wrote:

>  I would love to see a good book on "patterns" in Python.  I'd like
>  it to be a simple booklet listing each of the GoF patterns, with a
>  couple of examples of each.  It would be fine if it also covered some
>  additional patterns or some controversies or alternatives to the 
>  classic GoF patterns (like the Alex Martelli's Borg vs. the GoF 
>  Singleton).

There used to be a Python Pattern-SIG in former times:

  http://www.python.org/sigs/pattern-sig/mission

I wonder how much interest there would be in a revival?

Dinu


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Mar  5 20:09:48 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:09:48 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015287849.16661.python-list@python.org> <3C8445FC.A1816810@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <eppstein-395DC7.20301504032002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C855C40.9061EF31@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <eppstein-C962C0.17094805032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C855C40.9061EF31 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>,
 Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> > the outer expressions should be or_expr to respect Python's
> > precedence rules
> 
> I can't find 'or_expr', but I'm looking at the 1.5.2
> grammar. Has it been added later?

I was getting it from the 2.1 grammar.

> > and the inner one should be identifier.
> 
> That's a bit too restrictive -- any lvalue should be
> allowed (as for-in does). Unfortunately there's no
> grammar symbol corresponding exactly to an lvalue.

Ok, right.  It should be or_expr again, to match the 2.1 grammar.


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 12:19:52 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:19:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python's Syntax
In-Reply-To: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020301091952.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> Also, another thing about Python's syntax. Are statements just sperated by
> their lines, or do they have some form of seperator (like a semi-colon)?
> 

read some more on http://www.python.org.  Python is whitespace delimited.  Your
if statement above knew when to stop because you stopped indenting.

if test:
  do()
  something()
  here()
else:
  maybe()
  other()
  thing()

more()

Most of us who like coding in python appreciate this syntax because it makes
for easier rapid development.  No worrying about braces, semi-colons, etc.  I
just type and and type and it works.  This also gets rid of the dangling else
issue in languages like C.  Takes some getting used to, but if it works for
you, using another language feels odd.



From grante at visi.com  Wed Mar 27 23:54:42 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:54:42 GMT
Subject: seek in a file
References: <mailman.1017185572.18490.python-list@python.org> <a7s4q4$no0i9$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de> <a7u0p4$2bhv$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa58hd.1p9.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <a7u0p4$2bhv$1 at news.idiom.com>, Jim Dennis wrote:

> 	Of course I recognize that this might be a multi-user
> 	system (possibly with lots of POS terminals attached,
> 	and the bar code scanners attached to those).  In that
> 	case consuming a meg or two of memory for the barcodes
> 	dictionary *for each process* might get expensive.

Build an index into it. Then mmap() it. You have O(1) access to
any line in the file, and only the pages that get used will 
get pulled into RAM. As long as nobody writes to it, all
processes will share copies of the pages.

Let the OS worry about managing memory and disk buffers.
That's what it's there for.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  RELATIVES!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From gavrilov at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 20:25:25 2002
From: gavrilov at attbi.com (Alexander Gavrilov)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 01:25:25 GMT
Subject: Working version of framework.py from win32comext\axscript\client
Message-ID: <9kzh8.13764$Hf7.33821@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

    I have the same problem with IIS and win32all package that other people
had too. The ASP page with Python as the scripting language loads only the
first time. The subsequent loads return the blank page only. I'm aware about
the Mark Hammond's suggestion to grab framework.py from win32all-133. But I
can not find this version on the Mark's starship page! Could somebody
(Mark?) post the working version of framework.py to the newsgroup? It would
be helpful for many people, I think.
    Even better, Mark, could you check in the correction of this bug into
CVS?

Thank you,
Alexander Gavrilov




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Mar 18 05:57:14 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:57:14 +0100
Subject: Problem using pexports & Cygwin to build Python 2.2 extension modules
References: <Pv2l8.131777$V15.22100907@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a74hef$ejq$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:21:19 GMT, "Les Button" <lbut at stny.rr.com>
wrote:

>Has anyone else had success building an extension module with Windows
>Python 2.2 and Cygwin/gcc?

Yes, I can build extensions  for python 2.2 on windows 98 SE using
cygwin.

>P.S. I also had a problem with "Python.h" needing to have definitions of
>SIZEOF_INT
>and SIZEOF_LONG;  these apparently didn't get defined properly (for
>Cygwin/gcc)
>in "pyconfig.h"??  I fixed for now by providing #define's for these two,
>before the
>#include "Python.h" -- I don't see why this should be related to the linker
>failure.

Probably you should reverse these changes for the solution below to
work.

>$ python setup.py build --compiler=cygwin

try:
	setup.py build --compiler=mingw32

Good luck,
	Anton.


From marijn at sanity.dhs.org  Fri Mar  1 11:07:43 2002
From: marijn at sanity.dhs.org (Marijn Vriens)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:07:43 GMT
Subject: import Random: NV_MAGICCONST deviates too much.
References: <29575ad6.0202282330.16226275@posting.google.com> <uheo0wkmv.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <3C7FA749.6090005@sanity.dhs.org>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> marijn at sanity.dhs.org (marijn Vriens) writes:
> 
> 
>>Hi all...
>>
>>I have get a strange exception when importing random. 
>>I brought it down to:
>>
>>Python 2.1.2 (#1, Jan 18 2002, 18:05:45) 
>>[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
>>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>
>>>>>import gnome.ui
>>>>>import random
>>>>>
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/random.py", line 93, in ?
>>    _verify('NV_MAGICCONST', 1.71552776992141)
>>  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/random.py", line 88, in _verify
>>    raise ValueError(
>>ValueError: computed value for NV_MAGICCONST deviates too much
>>(computed 2,82843, expected 1)
>>
>>If I first import random and then gnome.ui I have no problems. my
>>distr is debian woody with the standard python packages (not
>>self-compiled) on an
>>AMD-K6 
>>
>>Anybody know what's going on ?
>>
> 
> At a guess, something in gnome.ui is buggering around with locale
> settings.  Don't know if this actually helps -- I can't see quite how
> it could produce the above error...
> 

The work-around for this is to set the LC_NUMERIC locale after importing 
gnome.ui. like so:

 >>> import locale
 >>> import gnome.ui
 >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_NUMERIC, 'C')
'C'
 >>> import random
 >>>

Thanks for the people at #python for helping with this issue!

Cheers,
      Marijn



From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 13:09:23 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 10:09:23 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <2b57f654.0203151009.296bb7da@posting.google.com>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in message news:<slrna92u5t.8oq.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>...
> In article <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:
> 
> >         selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
> >         (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, selectables)
> 
> It looks like you've got the first two parameters to select
> reversed.  After the above call, output is going to contain
> writable sockets.  If you're wanting to read data, you should
> do:
> 
>           (output, input, exc) = select.select(selectables,[],selectables)

Ding ding ding!  You are correct, sir!  Thanks for the help, I was
doing it backwards.  The python docs are a bit unclear to me on this
point.  Thanks for the help, it now works perfectly as expectorated.


From ffjhenon at club-internet.fr  Mon Mar 18 17:11:15 2002
From: ffjhenon at club-internet.fr (Fabien Henon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:11:15 +0100
Subject: Syntax color hightlight
Message-ID: <3C966603.5010605@club-internet.fr>

I am writing a text editor for POV-RAY (with Python-Tkinter) and
I'd like to know if it is possible to implement syntax color 
highlighting for a specific language.
I'd like to implement <>,(),[] matches as well.
Is Tkinter powerful enough or do I have to use megawidget, wxpython.

Thanks



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Fri Mar 15 00:35:15 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 05:35:15 GMT
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Peter Hansen wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> 
>> I have a free software program (http://sf.net/projects/bttotalcontrol/) and
>> I am having great difficulty writing an installation script for windows.
>> 
>> I don't want to use distutils because I am not writing a module - but an
>> entire distribution with images, data files, and executable programs. I
>> would like to put icons on the desktop and stuff in the start menu as well.
>> 
>> I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows
>> machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a few
>> people who actively test for the project at home.
>> 
>> Anyone have any suggestions on where I should go? Anyone can help me out
>> here?
> 
> Why not find and use one of the several free installer programs, rather
> than trying to write something from scratch yourself?
> 
> For example, try looking at google with "free windows installers" and 
> follow the first link you find.

NSIS rocks. But AFAIR his problem is that he doesn't have a Windows
box to build the installer on.

The best solution to this problem is to give in and get a damn Windows
box.  Even a virtual one with VMWare or Bochs will do. AFAIK Bochs can
run at least Windows 95 and it even runs on non-x86 hardware.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 19:48:22 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:48:22 +0000
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <ur8m478ds.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa7eem.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 28 Mar 2002 15:19:27 -0500, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
>philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:
>
>> IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works 
>> correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
>> 
>> IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
>
>I'm not so sure.  Doing it that way presumes that in fact you aren't
>making an error while trying to access an index (word) that doesn't
>exist.

Correct. IMO "try to do something sensible" should be the default.

If the programmer *wants* to do it the other way round, that is easy 
enough to code:

   if word not in fred: 
      raise SomeException
   fred[word] ++

But 9 times out of 10, you'll want to use a default of 0.

>Python requires marginally more effort to cover this case (e.g., you
>have to explicitly use a method like .get to include a default value
>if you know the key might not yet be present), but that also means
>that the code explicitly highlights that the scenario is anticipated
>and being handled.

Having to explicitly state things like this is a sign of low 
levelnmess in a lang. Next you'll be arguing that explicit storage 
management is a good thing.... :-)

>Sure, in a simple example like an increment operation it seems a bit
>much, but as a general case, I think it's the smarter and more
>maintainable default behavior.

I have never had maintainability problems with the other way round.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Wed Mar  6 22:58:51 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:58:51 -0800
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net>
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20020307035851.GA23955@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Jeff Hinrichs (jlh at cox.net):
> "Geoff Gerrietts" <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list at python.org...
> > Quoting Ramkumar Kashyap (rkashyap at sympatico.ca):
> > For the space of around three years, a child is immersed almost
> > constantly, from waking to sleep, and even sometimes while asleep, in
> > language. For those first three years, the child is almost completely
> > incapable of making him or herself understood.
>
> *BUZZ* Sorry, but as a parent I can firmly say that children can
> make a point well before 3 years. In fact, by 12-16 months they have
> the ability to utter rudimentary words, associate action and
> reaction and are deeply focused on interpersonal relationships,
> among other things.  First words are normally, familial (i.e
> mom/dad/et al), then "NO," then "More" with a slew of words of
> interest to them come next.

I'm a parent, too, and there's a big difference between "daddy",
"mommy", and the pronouncements that come from a child anywhere on up
to 18 months and spoken language.

At three (in April), my son speaks more or less complete sentences
with occassional nods to the rules of grammar. About 3/4 of the time
my wife and I understand him. About 1/4 of the time, others can
understand him. And he's pretty advanced for his age; a lot of parents
guess him at older.

That's like saying that I speak French because I know how to say "oui"
and "merci". You might make that claim, but expecting a Parisian to
hold a conversation with me is somewhat unreasonable.

What is it about internet discussion forums that makes everyone
struggle to find grounds to argue rather than make an effort to
understand?

> > People don't get smarter as they get older, they just have a better
> > foundation for building on. It would be just as difficult for someone
> > to learn programming through reading or transcribing lots of text as
> > it would be for someone to learn French by riding the Metro all day
> > long.
> This depends on how you define "smart."  I refer to smart as the mixture of
> wisdom + experience + ability to intuit.  <wink>

Again, this is begging the question, and after two pointless arguments
niggling over the semantics of "smarter", I'm starting to get a little
annoyed. I can define smarter as "having a higher IQ", as "best
educated", or as "most able to solve a given problem" and all of them
work pretty well. Right now I'm talking about ability to ingest raw
information and retain it. It's clear I should have been a little more
explicit; I guess terms like "smarter" are just begging for people to
fight.

> > My belief is that most people find computer programming to be
> > difficult because logic is not the natural way people think; it is a
> > forced mode. People tend to think intuitively, using "gut feelings"
> > and good guesswork. That's the way we tend to summarize the knowledge
> > of our experiences: as gut feelings.
> I agree with you here.

I think a previous poster has pointed out that I oversimplify here by
reducing abstract thinking to intuition and gut feelings, but I think
we all kinda get the point, when we're thinking in that mode.

> I do believe that Ramkumar's point is valid.  <my $0.02>Children, especially
> the young, suffer from fewer of the social pressures that retard adult
> learning.  The most salient, is the disregard for being wrong.  Adults, I
> believe, hamper their own learning process by limiting their questions or
> not asking them if they feel that by exposing their "knowledge holes" they
> are negatively impacting the social surroundings.  (i.e. Don't want to look
> stupid in front of the class.)  Unfortunately, the fastest way to learn
> something new is to expose your limited knowledge to the
> teacher/instructor/peers so that they can more effectively rid you of
> misconceptions and fill-in those "knowledge holes."  I have a strong
> suspicion this is why adults have a relatively more difficult time learning
> new spoken languages than children do. (vocabulary that is, pronunciation is
> another issue) </my $0.02>

I'm not sure that adults do. I think that your average diplomat who
needs a speed-training in a foreign language, can master
conversational language within a few months, and can be highly fluent
inside a year. It requires careful coursework supplemented by a great
deal of practice. Immersion is helpful, which (when we get back to the
start of the thread) is the sentiment that started the whole thing.

By contrast, the child can't converse effectively with his peers for
three to four years, and can't hold his own in a conversation with an
adult for even longer than that.

Maybe a slight switch in topic: if the logical constructs are
disorienting, how would we approach instruction? Hello World seems to
go okay, right? (Do we have anything like a consensus from this?) But
then where do we go? More examples?

I'm not sure what my goal is here, but it seems like we started with
an idea on how we could make computer programming more accessible for
everyone, including those whose relationship with logical thought can
only be described as "dysfunctional", but starting with those who are
at least making occassional sallies at the task of learning.

So where do we go next? If not "if", then what? Or do we go ahead with
"if" and "else", but abuse it with lots of examples?

Looking back at the pieces of pedagogical literature I've been exposed
to, I'm led to believe that learning (at least in children) occurs in
response to encountered frustrations with the limits of the current
knowledge base. Can we assemble something that looks like a cooked
series of examples or sample problems that exploit this?

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
  I AM YOUR KING! BOW BEFORE ME, PEASANT!   -- Dogbert



From werner.hartnagel at web.de  Mon Mar 11 13:58:58 2002
From: werner.hartnagel at web.de (Werner Hartnagel)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:58:58 +0100
Subject: starting Comands from Python
Message-ID: <3C8CFE72.80108@web.de>

Hi

Im a Python newbie and starting a small Project to learn Python better.
Its a GUI for the Image Magick Convert Tool.
The Application has a GtkCList with the Files to Convert.

My Problem is I dont understand how to start a Application (convert) as
a new Process. I use "posix.system(cmd_str)" to Test the Program, and of
course the GUI freeze :-(
It should wait for finish converting the File and start start again if
not "Cancel" is selected.

You make me very happy with some Source, urls, any hints.

regards

werner hartnagel



From justin at iago.org  Sat Mar  2 11:37:56 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:37:56 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203011951001.1238-100000@mars.localdomain> (Huaiyu
 Zhu's message of "Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:51:26 -0800 (PST)")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203011951001.1238-100000@mars.localdomain>
Message-ID: <x7n0xr0vtn.fsf@ra.iago.org>

Huaiyu Zhu <huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com> writes:

> There appears to be a serious bug in Python 2.2 that severely limits its
> usefulness for numerical computation:

> # Python 2.2
>
>>>> 1e-200**2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

I suspect that this is a problem with your local compiler or math library.

On the two most convenient platforms to me, this is properly handled.

Python 2.2 (#1, Dec 28 2001, 09:54:53)
[GCC 2.96 20000306 (experimental)] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0

Python 2.2 (#4, Jan 25 2002, 15:55:24)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0

I don't know a lot of details about platform math implementations, but
if you post your compiler and OS, I suspect that people here will be
more likely to be able to provide useful advice.

-Justin

 




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar 18 19:01:50 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 00:01:50 GMT
Subject: Format profile-data into "nice" HTML ?
References: <0S9l8.11822$TU3.312633@news4.ulv.nextra.no> <YArl8.12414$eJ6.230227@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <a75v5e$atr$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:53:28 GMT, "Thomas Weholt" <thomas at weholt.org> wrote:

>Posting a notice to let the group know of my very early and very simple
>attempt at html-formatting on output from the profile/pstats-module.
>
>The module is available at http://home.online.no/~t-weh/releases/hspstats.py
>and a preview of the output is available here
>http://home.online.no/~t-weh/releases/prf.html
>
>Please let me benefit from comments and improvements ( there are room for
>plenty :-) ) by sending me a mail etc.
>
>Best regards,
>Thomas Weholt
>
>
Hi,
I didn't post this. I happened to look at the source of your example HTML.
It isn't required for HTML format, but if you start your <tr ...> rows
on new lines it will be easier to read in source. You may find it useful
even if no one else sees it.

Nice look, however old Netscape will sometimes not show empty table cells
properly unless you at least put a non-breaking space (&nbsp; IIRC) in them.
Plain blanks between <td> and </td> won't do it.

I didn't look at your program yet. I think you will enjoy Python. Have fun.

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Wed Mar  6 23:29:37 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 15:29:37 +1100
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3y9h5yp8u.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Julio" == Julio Nobrega <inerte at hotmail.com> writes:

Julio> Hi!  I am used to do web scripting using PHP. As a new
Julio> adventure, I am trying to learn Python. I really wished I could
Julio> write 'desktop' apps with Python, but from what I read (and
Julio> from what I am planning), that's a little far away from my
Julio> current trouser snake knowledge (I also heard you all like
Julio> those kind of quotes ;-)

Julio>   So, I am looking for examples that might help me. Yes, I saw
Julio> Zope.  Waaaaay too much. Also read Web Programming Topic Guide
Julio> on python.org, way less practical than I like. Picky, ain't I?
Julio> :-)

Julio>   I searched for complete (yet simple), or incomplete (yet with
Julio> explanations) apps on cgi-resources, parnassus and hotscripts,
Julio> but I don't have background to decide what's good or bad
Julio> Python. And surely I don't want to start with the wrong foot
Julio> :-)

Have a look at our toolkit.  It comes with around 120 pages of
documentation - the first half of which is a guide to building
applications.

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/

Some of the templating and session behaviour was inspired by PHP so
you should feel at least partially at home.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar  6 19:24:14 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:24:14 -0600 
Subject: Code Bash!!! (CacheDictionary)
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B45@SRM201002>

Howdy everyone.

I've been tinkering aimlessly for a few days; the miniXML module
is sitting in the backburner for now, I'm trying to design a way
for it to request more text ("Feed Me Seymour!!") without it
breaking the current simple, toyish design, and at the same time,
having the parser "not notice" that new text has been inserted.

Anyhow, I subclassed the "dict" class, to make one with some
cache functionality, such as item timeouts, automatic purging
of old elements, and maximum length / LSU dropping.

So here's an afternoon of tinkering, for your enjoyment. It's
quite simple, and running the script without any parameters
runs a few tests on it.

The class can be subclassed, so your program can catch when
an item is being dropped either because it's the oldest and the
LRU catcher got it, or because it's being dropped along with
all the other timed-out items.

Have a nice evening!

pd: man, python's cool. :-)
-- 
Gustavo C?rdova Avila
> gcordova at sismex.com
? 8351-3861 | 8351-3862

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From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Tue Mar 12 08:15:39 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:15:39 +0100
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C8DFF7B.7EF0EAC6@kfunigraz.ac.at>

Martin Kaufmann wrote:


> Now my questions: Would it be best to
> 
> (a) write the whole program in C/C++ (I know only the basics of C but
> it would be a good "excuse" to learn it...)?
> (b) write the main program in Python but the heavy calculations in C
> (I played today with scipy.weave -- the speed is much better but I
> didn't really understand what I was doing...)?
> (c) program it in Python and don't care about speed (or buy a new
> workstation...)?

I once did a similar project in Yorick. It was not aimed at diffraction
patterns for electrons, but I have calculated the Fresnel-integral and
Zernike-polynomials via the FFT for a 1024x1024 grid in order to test
the diffraction pattern of a telescope. Yorick worked fine and I could
made some nice postscript outputs.

Projecting this experience to Python. I would assume (but without any
detailed study) that Python in  combination with the numeric library
will serve you very well. But it depends whether you can use a
straightforward algorithm (like the FFT) or you must solve your own
integral.


> Are there any libraries or other resources that would help? I used the
> Scientific Python library for the histogram but it was much slower
> than my DIY approach.

How much slower? A performance penalty of 100 would be of great concern;
a factor of 5 should not mind you (but this is my personal view). Okay,
if you have to wait in C or C++ 1 hour then even a factor of 5 is
somewhat bothersome.


Regards,
S. Gonzi


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar 17 19:18:32 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 00:18:32 GMT
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
References: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com> <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706@ruti.visi.com> <a678ud$30dv$1@news.idiom.com> <a67d2n$2kp$1@verence.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a73boo$fa$2@news.idiom.com>

In article <a67d2n$2kp$1 at verence.demon.co.uk>, Paul Wright wrote:
>In article <a678ud$30dv$1 at news.idiom.com>,
>Jim Dennis <jimd at vega.starshine.org> wrote:

>> O.K. so what can I do for asynchronous I/O notification on 
>> regular files?  How can I efficiently block and wake up when
>> I/O is available on any of my file descriptors?  

>> Don't tell me I have to go into a sleep and poll stat() or
>> seek() loop!  It's hard to imagine that UNIX got this far 
>> without offering a better solution than that!

> If you run strace on "tail -f somefile", you'll find that sleeping and
> stat'ing is what it's doing, so I don't think there's a better way.

> Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |

 Alright, I'll 'fess up.  I had run strace tail -f ... before I wrote
 my original post.  But I was hoping that I was looking at some 
 legacy of compatibility/portability, or laziness!

 I guess the newer versions of FreeBSD are ahead of Linux in this
 category.  Hopefully Ben LaHaise' AIO work will get merged in soon
 and in a few years we can relegate "while (1) { nanosleep(); stat(); }"
 to the history books.
 



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Wed Mar 13 14:24:46 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:24:46 +0100
Subject: Another socket/thread question
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FA777.8A5B07D1@accessforall.nl>


Ken wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone..
> 
> I've got a thread that continously listens to a socket, and reports what it
> receives. Blocking is turned on, and I would like it to stay that way since
> the only thing the thread has to do, is listen to the socket.
> 
> My question is when the socket needs to be closed (program shuts down, or
> that user is being disconnected by the server) is it possible to interupt a
> socket.recv ()?

When you close the socket from another thread or by the server,
the pending socket.recv() should terminate with some error condition.
It's best to test both situations, however.

Have fun,
Ype


From nospam at [127.0.0.1]  Sat Mar 16 11:28:00 2002
From: nospam at [127.0.0.1] (Chris)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:28:00 +0000
Subject: This may seem a slightly strange problem ...
References: <jSSm1aIaVlk8Ewdu@[127.0.0.1]>
 <a6uct4$h8dv4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <vgQFZWJQK3k8EwfN@[127.0.0.1]>

In article <a6uct4$h8dv4$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>, Emile van Sebille 
<emile at fenx.com> writes
>If that interests you, take a look at trying to duplicate something
>like:
>http://www.hypersolutions.org/images/rgbhex.gif as html.  You could also
>use python to generate the html.

I like that.
And the idea of using Python to generate HTML is interesting.
Is that easy enough for a beginner?
-- 
Chris


From opengeometry at DELETE.yahoo.ca  Sun Mar  3 19:27:23 2002
From: opengeometry at DELETE.yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 00:27:23 GMT
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a5uf17$9r5ep$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Doug Farrell <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a text search engine that works with
> Python? What I'm looking for specifically is something that will
> compress the text and still allow searches and retrievals that can be
> exact matches or proximity based. The text I want to compress and
> search is huge (70 megs) and should compress down to half, not
> including any index files that might be required by the search engine.
> Anyone know of anything like this or any ideas?
> 
> Thanks, Doug Farrell

Perhaps, you can illustrate your problem with some concrete examples.
Otherwise, you'll be getting "use Linux" or "use gzip/bzip2" answers
which wouldn't be too useful for you (judging by the fact that you had
to ask in the first place).

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPU cluster, NAS, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Tin


From wurmy at earthlink.net  Fri Mar  8 11:31:22 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:31:22 GMT
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C88E7B4.A910D281@earthlink.net>

N Becker wrote:
> 
> Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
> a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).

Python is not Lisp...

<ponder> It would be interesting to have lazy evaluation though...
I'm not sure if it's possible to implement, or if it will be
useful at all. It sure makes sense in functional languages,
but in Python? Hm. 
</ponder>

> I wonder if there is anything new.  It looks to me that the
> best answer is to use lambda.
> 
> example:
> 
> def f():
>   return lambda: os.chmod(""/root/.rhosts", 0644)
> 
> def g():
>   f()

Writing your code like this is asking for trouble. Not
only does it make your code less clear, but it also
introduces a Lisp-ish idiom, which is fine when you're
writing Lisp, but in Python there are certainly better
ways to do what you want, depending on what you are
trying to do. (Unless you're writing an entry for the
Obfuscated Python Contest... <wink>)

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From boomshanka at wp.pl  Sun Mar 24 19:56:24 2002
From: boomshanka at wp.pl (boomshanka at wp.pl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:56:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: 100% in one month!!!  8320
Message-ID: <a7lsjo$kh1g$5876@engel.scvmaxonline.com.sg>

http://www.magicmoneygame.com/default.asp?referrer=0852016798

Register, deposit money, buy nr 11 stocks, get 100% in one month :))

Regards,
Marcin
eqfbwlwzgzrpunphmlllotvkizcbigrnqojbtkkgdpgpqkbctqvejquyjrqshiopdrcmnylfbgbecsgvkwku



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar 21 10:44:18 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:44:18 +0100
Subject: Returning an element from a C struct
References: <3C9772AB.1691D362@saic.com> <mailman.1016560711.29153.python-list@python.org> <3c990582$0$29676$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <a7cv3u$kq5ru$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

"Armin Rigo" <arigo at ulb.ac.be> wrote in message
news:3c990582$0$29676$ba620e4c at news.skynet.be...
> > How about
> >
> >     def __getattr__(self,name):
> >         try:
> >             return self.__dict__[name]
> >         except KeyError:
> >             return getattr(self.ptr, name)
>
> It even looks like the first 'return' is not needed. If the attribute is
> found in the instance then __getattr__() is not called at all.
>
> Armin
>
... but AFAIK in Python 2.2, if __getattribute__(self, key) is implemented,
it is called anyway.




From gleki at gol.ge  Mon Mar  4 17:03:48 2002
From: gleki at gol.ge (Giorgi Lekishvili)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:03:48 -0800
Subject: more functional programming
Message-ID: <3C83EF44.A44E595C@gol.ge>

Hi all!

Please, accept my appologies for this naive question.

I have taken a careful look on the operator module docs. The module
enables one to make procedures as lists. That's too good.

However, is there already something like scheme's "define" abstractor?
This'd be used as the first element of such list, yielding the result of
the procedure...

Is this, or anything similar, already present in Python? If not, does
someone of the Python gurus plan to do so?

Thank you very much for your time.

Greetings,
Giorgi

PS. Is a genetic programming library written in/for Python available?



From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Tue Mar 26 02:06:47 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:06:47 +0100
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
References: <mailman.1016971717.5613.python-list@python.org> <a7klhn$b6o$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <83u1r43zav.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <a7p6va$7ct$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

"Kragen Sitaker" <kragen at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:83u1r43zav.fsf at panacea.canonical.org...
> "Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:
> > > Is there any good tutorial for creating advanced client/server apps
> > > (like online games) out there? i tried to make one 2 times, and both
> >
> > May I suggest you take a look at Pyro;   http://pyro.sourceforge.net
> > It may be just what you want/need for easy distributed application
development.
> > You don't have to do any network programming when using Pyro.
>
> I don't think Pyro is suitable for online games.  It's an RPC layer.
>

Yes, but what is wrong with that?
Your game clients communicate with a game server, voila, RPC. A single or a few
Pyro objects could perfectly be the game server, can't they?
Your server publishes game state updates. Voila, Pyro's event service.

Irmen





From scott2237 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 20:35:32 2002
From: scott2237 at yahoo.com (googlePoster)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:35:32 GMT
Subject: python as gvim scripting lang -- examples please
Message-ID: <ERTi8.10088$gN5.2306926740@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

I would like to see some example python gvim scripts
so I could get started with some simple stuff -- need access
to runtimepath, range, etc





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Mar 22 13:04:59 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:04:59 -0500
Subject: python/wxPython opengl question
References: <c0a56015.0203220932.1acdad6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B724B.8020201@rogers.com>

I'm guessing GLUT's exit function is making a call to the C equivalent 
of sys.exit.  Best approach would be to use a wxPython OpenGL context, 
instead of the GLUT one.  You can find a demo of creating a wxPython 
OpenGL context in the wxPython demo.

HTH,
Mike

alan scales wrote:
> i have a python app (using wxPython).  from it i create a top level
> window (frame) using python opengl. this works:  i have my app
> running, and alongside it the gl graphics window.
> 
> however, when i close the opengl window, it closes my wxPython app
> (and the python console) - i.e. everything.
> 
> i don't want this behavior.  is there any way to prevent it?  
> 
> for the gl window i am just making a standard
> glutCreateWindow(title)call.
> 
> alan scales
_______________________________________
   Mike C. Fletcher
   http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From fdrake at acm.org  Sun Mar 24 13:58:35 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:58:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020324185835.2D25928696@beowolf.fdrake.net>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/csstest-docs/

This is the experimental formatting for the documentation.

This version should work better for Opera users; it should work fine
for Opera 6, and works (slightly) better than it did for Opera 5.
There's probably no change for other browsers.



From emmanuelgagniere at wanadoo.fr  Sat Mar 30 05:48:07 2002
From: emmanuelgagniere at wanadoo.fr (Emmanuelgagniere)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:48:07 +0100
Subject: GUI programming
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a84561$p5g$1@wanadoo.fr>

wxpython is the best one




Umesh Persad <upersad at tstt.net.tt> a ?crit dans le message :
mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>  I am doing an assignment using python -
> making a turkish checkers game.
>
> ---------------------------------------
> |                                                         |
> |                                                         |
> |                                                         |
> |            checker board area                |
> ---------------------------------------
> |                                                         |
> |          text fileds and buttons area       |
> |                                                         |
> ---------------------------------------
>
> I wanted to have a user interface where
> I can draw the game board as well as take
> in text input below the board with some text
> felds and buttons. I see there are many GUI toolkits
> available. I am wondering which one should I use
> (tkinter, wxpython?) that will be simple enough
> to get me up and running qiuckly. Also are there
> any examples that I can look at?
>
> Also, if any one is familiar with Tkinter,
> how do I put up a window with a size
> that I want? Also how do I place a canvas
> on the window at a predefined size?
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Umesh
>
>




From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Sat Mar 30 06:08:00 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:08:00 +1100
Subject: GUI programming
In-Reply-To: <a84561$p5g$1@wanadoo.fr>
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org> <a84561$p5g$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <200203301108.LAA04305@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:48, Emmanuelgagniere wrote:
> wxpython is the best one

No, Qt is the best one, by far.


    Richard



From opengeometry at NOSPAM.yahoo.ca  Sun Mar 17 13:57:26 2002
From: opengeometry at NOSPAM.yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:57:26 GMT
Subject: a text processing problem: are regexpressions necessary?
References: <b03e80d.0203170529.6ac58327@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a72ouj$hub5l$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Sandy Norton <sandskyfly at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I thought I'd share this problem which has just confronted me.
> 
> The problem
> 
> An automatic way to tranform urls to articles on various news sites to
> their printerfriendly counterparts is complicated by the fact that
> different sites have different schemes for doing this. (see examples
> below)
> 
> Now given two examples for each site: a regular link to an article and
> its printer-friendly counterpart, is there a way to automatically
> generate transformation code that is specific to each site, but which
> generalizes across all article urls within that site?

You already identified the central issue.  Each site is different, but
presumably consistent within the site.  I guess you can build up Sed
scripts...

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm

sed -e 's,http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/,http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/,'

> http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1043688
> http://www.economist.com/agenda/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=1043688

grep 'http://www.economist.com/' | sed -e 's,[^/]*\.cfm\?,PrinterFriendly.cfm?,'

> http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuru031502.shtml
> http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuruprint031502.html

grep 'http://www.nationalreview.com/' | sed -e 's,\([0-9]\+\)\.shtml$,print\1.html,'

> http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said
> http://www.thenation.com/docPrint.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said

grep 'http://www.thenation.com/' | sed -e 's,\.mhtml\?,Print&,'

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPU cluster, NAS, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Tin


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sun Mar 10 14:12:23 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:12:23 +0100
Subject: Use apply() or not, and raising multiple exceptions (co-routines?)
References: <roy-5CA36F.12183910032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BB00C.12A3F4E1@accessforall.nl>

Roy,

You wrote:
> 
> I've got some code which performs a series of integrety checks against a
> data set.  The way I've set things up, I put each check in its own method
> and keep a list of all the methods:
> 
> checks = []
> 
> def check1 (self, data):
>    do stuff
> checks.append (check1)
> 
> def check2 (self, data):
>    do other stuff
> checks.append (check2)
> 
> and so on.  This makes it easy to add and delete bits of policy over time.
> I cycle over the checking functions by doing:
> 
> for check in self.checks:
>     check (self, data)
> 
> I could have also written this as:
> 
> for check in self.checks:
>     apply (check, [data])

Sounds familiar.

> 
> is there any particular reason to prefer one style over the other?  Having
> walked a few people through the code, I'm starting to think that the latter
> is a little more self-explanitory (especially for junior pythonistas).  On
> the other hand, I suspect it's slighly less efficient.
> 
> A related question is how best to have the check methods do more than one
> thing.  Right now, I just have each method print an error message when it
> finds a problem.  A given method might check for more than one related
> problem.  I'd like to pull the printing out of the functions themselves,
> and go to an exception based system, where I'd do something like:
> 

You might start thinking in terms of 'testing' instead of 'checking'.

> for check in self.checks:
>    try:
>       check (self, data)
>    except IntegrityCheckError, message:
>       print 'failed check:', message
> 
> The problem is I'd only catch the first problem found by a given check
> method.  The way around that would be to make the check methods each look
> for one, and only one, problem, but that wouldn't be inefficient
> (especially since some methods would share a lot of code and repeat a lot
> of work).  Is there some way to stack exceptions, so a given method can
> raise two or more of them in sequence, or something having the same effect?
> 

There is a way to do that, see below.

> The only thing I can see is to have each check method return a list of
> problems it found.  Then, the main loop would look like:
> 
> for check in self.checks:
>    for problem in check (self, data):
>       print 'failed check:', problem
> 
> but that implies pushing a lot of scaffolding down into the check methods,
> making them build and manipulate error lists to return.  I'm trying to keep
> them as clean as possible, so they're easy to write and debug.
> 

Right.

> It would be kind of neat if after doing the except clause, my method picked
> up again at the statement after the raise.  I guess what I'd have then is
> the caller and callee acting as co-routines.  Is there a way to do anything
> like that?

Definitely.

Software testers have exactly the same set of problems you describe. You test
data, but what's the difference in OO?
That's why I think you are going to really like PyUnit. It does everything you
need, and probably more. It's in the standard distribution nowadays,
but still it's wortwhile to have a look at http://pyunit.sourceforge.net/
The battery is included here:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-unittest.html

There is a bit of learning curve, but PyUnit is really worth it.
Since you have already encountered the basic problems of designing tests
you'll probably get the point in no time. 
It will help you to let things fall into their place.

Ype


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Mar  4 12:47:12 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 17:47:12 GMT
Subject: what I would like to see in python to make a better "glue" language (Newbie)
References: <mailman.1015214645.1421.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a60bv0$t0g$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Anthony Baxter <anthony at ekit-inc.com>:
| >>> Anthony_Barker wrote
| > 1. LDAP module should be included in the base distro. Active Directory
| > is already available via com (nice)
|
| I'm not convinced that this should be in the base distribution. Aside from
| anything else, it often requires particular LDAP libraries to install. I
| do think it should be easier to find and auto-install packages, but the
| standard answer to this is, as ever, "send code".

What do you think of the odds on a pure Python solution?

The C library requirement is very awkward, especially on unusual
platforms, and I'm thinking a Python implementation might actually
come out better.  Could have some advantages in situations where
you want to go deeper into the system, like between the BER encoding
and the LDAP protocol itself for debugging purposes.  Maybe if the
text processing turned out to be a serious performance issue, some
decoding and parsing parts could be optionally implemented in C.

I see the old 3.3 libldap adds up to 14K lines of code, but that's C,
everyone knows Python can do the job in a lot less code.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 15:17:35 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:17:35 -0000
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8cuav.82.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6 at posting.google.com>,
  Julio Nobrega wrote:
>   So, I am looking for examples that might help me. Yes, I saw Zope.
> Waaaaay too much. Also read Web Programming Topic Guide on python.org,
> way less practical than I like. Picky, ain't I? :-)

<advert>You could try the system I have just released on:

 http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/

Warning: it is alpha release but it's Way Cool (TM)</advert>


From grante at visi.com  Fri Mar  8 16:48:56 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:48:56 GMT
Subject: newbie socket/thread question
References: <3C8928E3.4B55769D@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <clai8.17081$N7.3673897@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3C8928E3.4B55769D at hotmail.com>, Ken wrote:
> Hey everyone..
> 
> I'm messing around with Python, trying to learn the language, by
> building a simple network chat program that uses threads and sockets.
> 
> I'm trying to set it up so that if the server receives a keyboard
> interupt from console, it'll shut everything down. Which seems to work
> fine for the most part. The problem is that after a user connects and
> the server is stopped, the server cannot start up again right away. It
> gets the error:
> 
>   socket.error: (48, 'Address already in use')

By default you can't reuse a port immediately after it's been
closed -- you have to wait a few minutes just in case there are
any packets from the old connection still wandering around the
network.  It could cause problems if those packets from the old
connectionarrive after you've bound a new socket to that
address.

If you want to disable that feature, you need to set the
SO_REUSEADDR option on the socket before you do the bind()
operation.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Inside, I'm already
                                  at               SOBBING!
                               visi.com            


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 06:14:21 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:14:21 +0000
Subject: MS Sql Server
References: <788n8.60257$bj1.19179906@news02.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <d0dr9ucmkf8mo1nqgltldcekav2065cgif@4ax.com>

"Chase" <chaimh at mapleusa.com> wrote:

>Hi...
>
>Wondering what the most accepted practice is, for communicating to Sql
>Server Databases. Is it the ODBC module ? mxODBC ? Is there an ADO module ?
>
>Any hints/help appreciated.
>
You don't say where the client is running.

If it's on Windows, ADO is fine using the COM interface provided by
Win32All but you do need to watch out for all the performance tweaks
if you're going to be hitting it hard.

Search this ng's recent history ('ADO' in the subject) for some
interesting posts on the subject.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Tue Mar 19 14:43:46 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:43:46 -0800
Subject: bug reporting
References: <a72nf6.3vs5lk7.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016561793.609.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7789i.3vsgjjn.1@kserver.org>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:58:59 +1000 (est), Andrew MacIntyre
<andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016561793.609.python-list at python.org>:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Sheila King wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:41:22 -0500, "Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com>
> > wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> > <mailman.1016412590.22637.python-list at python.org>:
> 
> {...}
> 
> > report after all. It may end up to be a problem in my own code.  :/
> 
> Bug reports can be closed ;-)  Though I'm not sure that SF actually allows
> anyone other than project developers to do so, a followup that explains
> that it should be closed with no further action would result in closure
> with minimum wastage of effort.

I did close it, later the same day that I opened it. Still, sometimes
feedback and discussion is nice. I don't like to report false alarms, and
I'm sure that in an ideal world, the developers would rather not deal with
false reports, as well. 

's OK now, though.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sat Mar  9 17:33:32 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:33:32 -0500
Subject: Tkinter + Button widget
Message-ID: <3c8a9185$1_1@nopics.sjc>

when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?

    def HideNewClient(self, frame):
        frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
        return

        pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                               text="Search",
                               relief=GROOVE,
                               font=("Tahoma", 10),
                               width=16,
                               command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))

any help would greatly be appreciated.

Adonis




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Fri Mar  1 20:57:08 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:57:08 +0900
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net> <a5obj3$18di$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <%8Wf8.518$Az6.2357@news.hananet.net>

Donn Cave scribbled with his keyboard:

> Quoth Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu>:
> | I tried to use the shutil module... and to tell you the truth, it
> | stinks. Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that
> | has the equivalent of the unix shell utilities?
> 
> Go ahead.  Then keep an eye out on comp.lang.python, and after some
> years pass finally someone will mention it:  "it stinks", they'll
> say, with no particular explanation.

=) I didn't mean to be particularly offensive.

It was just that the copytree function has this little comment:

The source code for this should be considered an example rather than a tool.

And it also won't copy to a directory that already exists... this is very 
different than what 'cp' does.

> 
> | I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...
> |
> | Here is my wish list. Each of these should implement a significant
> | portion of what the GNU utils do. They should be robust, and give
> | reasonable results, and reasonable exceptions.
> |
> | touch, chmod, chown, chgrp, touch
> | df, du
> | cp, dd, install, mv, rm, shred
> 
> Some of them are essentially POSIX 1003.1 functions, hence supported in
> the posix module (which we usually call "os" so it will appear that these
> functions are supported on all platforms, whether they really are or not.)
> 
> chmod == chmod()
> chown == chown()
> chgrp == chown()
> rm == unlink()
> mv == rename()
> dd ~= read(), write(), lseek()
> df == fstatvfs()
> 

They do in fact appear in the 'os' module, but they are rather limited to 
the forms of input they take.

For instance, you have to use (octal) numbers for chmod().

There would be a big benefit to see something like:

res = chmod("-c", "-R", "u=rwx,g=rx,o=", a_file, another_file, a_directory)

Even having a function reference you pass in that returns true or false in 
answer to questions like, "Shall I delete this directory?" would be very 
useful.

Well, it looks like I'd better get started. I think 'cp', 'rm' and such 
will be the easiest to implement. Any ideas for a module name?

> Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
Jonathan (jgardn at u.washington.edu)



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 11:04:20 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:04:20 -0500
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015314249.8983.python-list@python.org> <625h8.3294$tg2.206482@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3C84E34B.1010009@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <QU5h8.3627$tg2.222845@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

You're being generous by saying "we", I merely asked the question, it was
your solution.  Seeing as you used the word "baby" already a simple name
would be the GetParent pattern.

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:3C84E34B.1010009 at bigfoot.de...
> Robert Oschler wrote:
> > Gerhard,
> >
> > Excellent!!!  Never expected to find a language that could do this and
it
> > something I've wanted very badly for a long time.  Yes that's exactly
what I
> > meant.  B knows about the A that owns it without having to artificially
pass
> > a reference of A to B during construction.
>
> So, if we're really the first ones to invent and implement this pattern,
> how do we name the baby?
>
> The Borg name seems to be already taken ;-)
>
> Gerhard
>





From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Mon Mar 11 18:00:49 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:00:49 GMT
Subject: starting Comands from Python
References: <3C8CFE72.80108@web.de>
Message-ID: <u1yeqk8wl.fsf@online.no>

Werner Hartnagel <werner.hartnagel at web.de> writes:

> Hi
> 
> Im a Python newbie and starting a small Project to learn Python
> better.
> 
> Its a GUI for the Image Magick Convert Tool.
> The Application has a GtkCList with the Files to Convert.
> 
> My Problem is I dont understand how to start a Application (convert)
> as
> 
> a new Process. I use "posix.system(cmd_str)" to Test the Program, and
> of
> 
> course the GUI freeze :-(

I think you should use os.system (It's the same but portable).

> It should wait for finish converting the File and start start again if
> 
> not "Cancel" is selected.

Put the code starting the process in a threading.Thread derived object
and let the gui set some flag that the thread can read and abort when
the user hits cancel.

Check out the threading module documentation to see how to use it.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From quinn at hurl.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sun Mar 31 16:08:06 2002
From: quinn at hurl.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 21:08:06 GMT
Subject: getting infos from a website
References: <3CA61187.C0548FD5@cam.org> <3CA614B8.2C5C25E4@cam.org> <mailman.1017521988.813.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaaeull.k36.quinn@hurl.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:00:23 -0500, Zutroi Zatatakowski <abou at cam.org> wrote:
>But another thing... Now that I can capture a website html and output it
>into a file, I have to remove all html tags (I guess replacing '<>' by '
>') or, but I don't know if it's possible, instead of capturing the HTML
>source of the page, could I retrieve only the text, like basic ASCII
>copy/paste?   

Depends on what you want to do with it.  If you just want to read it,
download w3m, save the text to a tmp file and capture the output of
'w3m -dump tmpfile'.

If you want to extract some part of the page you could look for a landmark,
and write a simple regexp.  Otherwise there are some HTML parsing bits in
the stdlib.  Or you could pick apart the w3m output.  How fragile your
code is to page changes depends on the page and how you do things.


From morton at dennisinter.com  Thu Mar 28 14:37:14 2002
From: morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 11:37:14 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>
Message-ID: <4abd9ce7.0203281137.7caef540@posting.google.com>

You could go a lot further with this case statement

First thing is to allow for variable length list unpack:

(a, b, *c) = (1,2,3,4,5,6,7)
a <- 1
b <- 2
c <- (3,4,5,6,7)

Second thing is to allow non-binding literals in a list unpack:

(1, a, b) = (1, 2, 3)  matches/unpacks with a=2, b=3
(1, a, b) = (2, 3, 4)  fails
('fred', a, b) = ('fred', 'was', 'here') matches/unpacks with a='was',b='here'
('fred', a, b) = ('joe', 'was', 'here') fails
 
Then, introduce a simple case statement:

case var:
    20:
        print 'var is 20'
    30:
        print 'var is 30'
    else:
        print 'we have fallen though'
        
        
A slightly more complex case statement:
        
        
case:
    if var < 20:
        print 'var is < 20'
    if var = 25:
        print 'var is 25'
    if var > 30:
        print 'var is > 30'
    else:
        print 'we have fallen though'
        
        
An even more complex case statement:
        

case someobject:
    (X, Y):
        print 'macthes any list/tuple of length 2'
        print X, Y
    (X, Y, *Z) if X<32 and Y=="abc" and len(Z)>4:
        print 'would match (1,"abc",3,4,5,6,7)
        print 'X <- 1'
        print 'Y <- "abc"'
        print 'Z <- (3,4,5,6,7)'
        print X, Y, Z
    (X, Y, *Z):
        print 'matches any list/tuple of length 3 or more'
        print X, Y, Z
    X if isinstance(X, file):
        print 'matches any file object'
        print X
    else:
        print 'final condition matches anything'
        
        
translated into current python:

(assuming that variable list unpack is included in the python core)

try:
    (X, Y) = someobject
except ValueError:
    try:
        (X, Y, *Z) = someobject
    except ValueError:  
        X = someobject
        if isinstance(X, file):
            print 'matches any file object'
            print X
        else:
            print 'final condition matches anything'        
    else:
        if X<32 and Y=="abc" and len(Z)>4:
            print 'would match (1,"abc",3,4,5,6,7)
            print 'X <- 1'
            print 'Y <- "abc"'
            print 'Z <- (3,4,5,6,7)'    
            print X, Y, Z
        else:
            print 'matches any list/tuple of length 3 or more'
            print X, Y, Z
else:
    print 'macthes any list/tuple of length 2'
    print X, Y



"Ken Peek" <Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.comNOSPAM> wrote in message news:<3ca33c88 at news.mhogaming.com>...
> Well-- OK, my new ISP doesn't have a news server, but I found one
> that I could use to post this with.  If you reply to my email, do
> the 'nospam' thing first to my email address...
> 
> I really am interested in what people think about this.  I have
> looked at all the other c.l.py posts on this construct, but I
> don't think anyone proposed this format.
> 
> BTW-- the 'until' thing in the original letter was already posted,
> so please disregard that part of this post- (I left it in for
> accuracy.)
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Guido van Rossum
>   Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 04:45
>   To: Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com
>   Cc: Marc-Andre Lemburg
>   Subject: Re: PEP 0275
> 
>   If you really want to discuss this, it's better to post to c.l.py.
> 
>   --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Ken Peek [mailto:Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com]
>   Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 01:05
>   To: Marc-Andre Lemburg
>   Cc: Guido van Rossum
>   Subject: PEP 0275
> 
>   How about:
> 
>   match some_object:
> 
>       ("I dream of Jeanie",):
>           print "with the light brown hair"
> 
>       (1,3,5,7):
> 
>           print "some odd numbers"
> 
>           # 'break' leaves the entire match structure
>           if (time_to_leave): break
> 
>           # 'continue' jumps to the first
>           # statement in the next clause
>           continue
> 
>       (123,456,789):
> 
>           print "some bigger numbers too"
> 
>       (19,56,22):
> 
>           print "some random numbers"
> 
>       (1001,2002,3000):
>           # YES! It IS possible we want to do NOTHING!
>           pass
> 
>       any:
>           print "we got here because there were no matches"
> 
>   This is kind of a neat construct because you can put multiple
>   tests on one line, and it doesn't look too messy (like C's
>   'switch' would look.)  Also-- we are not limited to matching up
>   only integers.  This is very clean code compared to a long string
>   of "if/elif/elif/elif/else" clauses...  I like READABLE code--
>   which is why I like Python!
> 
>   Note that the aggregate of the tuples must have unique values and
>   types-- (this allows for efficient implementation, and for future
>   optimization.)  A match is found only when BOTH the type and
>   value are the same.  'some_object' can be any object, but it
>   would be wise to not use floating point numbers or other things
>   that do not guarantee a valid '==' compare.  I suppose these
>   ambiguous types could be flagged with an error from the compiler,
>   but I would hate to see a run time check (which would slow things
>   down, just to accommodate a bad programmer.)
> 
>   The match clauses do not 'fall through' automatically like a "C -
>   switch" statement-- (this is the source of many errors in 'C'.)
>   A clause can be forced to 'fall through' with the use of a
>   'continue' statement, which jumps to the first statement in the
>   next match clause (because 'falling through' IS useful
>   sometimes.)  I suppose the interpreter/compiler could flag an
>   error "UnreachableCode" (or 'BadIndentation') if 'continue' was
>   used by itself, and there were statements after it at the same
>   indentation level...
> 
>   The 'any' keyword could be changed to 'else' I suppose, but I
>   think the word 'any' "just plain sounds better when you say it",
>   and I like the 'match' keyword better than anything I have seen
>   or can think of...
> 
>   =================================
> 
>   I have also been mulling over a new 'until' keyword-- it works
>   the same as 'while', but the body of the loop is executed first
>   before the conditional test is made the first time, and the sense
>   of the test is opposite (ie- the test must be FALSE for the body
>   of the loop to be executed again.)  'continue' jumps directly to
>   the conditional test, and 'break' jumps out of the loop (as expected):
> 
>   until something_becomes_true:
> 
>       print 'here we are in the body of the loop'
>       print 'which was executed at least once'
>       print "before the 'something_becomes_true'"
>       print 'test was made.'
> 
>       # we can skip to the test now with a 'continue':
>       if bad_programming_practice == TRUE: continue
>       print 'nope-- no continue'
> 
>       # we can get out of the loop with a 'break':
>       if another_bad_programming_practice: break
> 
>       # we probably need to stop the loop someday:
>       something_becomes_true = do_some_check()
> 
>   =================================
> 
>   I doubt if any of this will ever make it into Python (well--
>   maybe Python 3000)-- but it's fun to think about.
> 
>   Well, what do you think?
> 
>   --Ken Peek
>   Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.NOSPAM.com
>   (This letter is released to the public domain-- KP.)


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 17:48:33 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 22:48:33 GMT
Subject: financial calculations
References: <MPG.16f5a2c7862e2392989681@news.pandora.be> <a6g27d$as4$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6gns1$3tm$1@216.39.172.122>

On 10 Mar 2002 08:39:09 -0800, aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:

>In article <MPG.16f5a2c7862e2392989681 at news.pandora.be>,
>tc  <tony.claeys at pandora.be> wrote:
>>
>>Is there a python module for financial calculations ? Using floats would 
>>give me too much problems with rounding errors.
>
>Not financial calculations per se, but your best bet until I finish my
>BCD module is Tim Peters's FixedPoint.py.  Unfortunately, the old FTP
>link appears to be broken, so I've put up a copy on my Starship pages:
>http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/FixedPoint.py

Now that you can subclass builtin types, are you going to take a different
approach for >= 2.2 ?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 12:12:21 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:12:21 +0100
Subject: cgi xmlrpc anyone?
In-Reply-To: <JDoTXKAYb3j8EwA$@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
References: <JDoTXKAYb3j8EwA$@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020313171221.GC2611@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 15:57, Robin Becker ?crivit:
> Has anyone got a cgi version of an xmlrpc server? By that I mean a cgi
> script which simulates being an xmlrpc server. We are allowed to do cgi
> by our ISP, but not to run long running processes or to start up our own
> servers etc.
 
Rewind your newsreader a little, and you'll find

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:comp.lang.python+xml-rpc+cgi+server&hl=de&selm=mailman.1014485857.32093.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1

I haven't tried it, only remembered reading the thread.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 16.3 ?C      Wind: 2.0 m/s



From george_planansky at harvard.edu  Fri Mar 15 01:21:12 2002
From: george_planansky at harvard.edu (George Planansky)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 01:21:12 -0500
Subject: Good book on Python?
Message-ID: <w3yy9gubbc7.fsf@mass.deas.harvard.edu>

These two are uncommonly well-executed.

Both have fine, insighful "Intro to Python"
material.   Both also have fine, insightful
topical coverages.

As a bonus, these two publishers use terrific 
layouts, fonts, ... so these are nice books to 
the eye and mind.

The Quick Python Book
1999
Daryl Harms and Kenneth McDonald
Manning

Python Web Programming
2002
Steve Holden with David Beazley
New Riders


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Tue Mar  5 02:25:41 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:25:41 GMT
Subject: I've got the unicode blues
Message-ID: <3c846d80.95456984@news.isar.de>

I have a C++ tool that takes two Windows .REG files and computes
differences in them. The tool needs some reworking, so I thought why
not rewrite that in Python, after all, Python Is Cool (TM).

The trouble starts with Windows 2000: REGEDIT files are now UNICODE.
Now, I have never had to dig very deep into UNICODE, so let me first
recap my knowledge of that. 

Coming from a lowlevel assembler/C background, the most intuitive way
of understanding the whole messy thing is this: ASCII characters are
one byte each, UNICODE characters are two byte each. That is not
correct, but its a pragmatic way of viewing things that has worked so
far on the Windows implementation of UNICODE. (There are several
variants of UNICODE strings in use in windows, most notably the
difference being that the NT kernel strings have their length encoded
in the first word; however, all UNICODE strings seem to be two bytes
each, probably because that is most easy and fastest way to process
them). 

Lets take a look at a hexdump of such a REGEDIT generated file. 

000000: FFFE5700 69006E00 64006F00 77007300 ..W.i.n.d.o.w.s.
000010: 20005200 65006700 69007300 74007200  .R.e.g.i.s.t.r.
... (and so on)...

The first two initial bytes look suspicious, but all bytes after that
are like expected: two bytes per character, and the latin letters look
like their ASCII counterpart. Some searching at http://www.unicode.org
reveals that the first two bytes are identifiers for UNICODE files
like this, called "BOM". See
http://www.unicode.org/unicode/uni2book/u2.html, Chapter 2.7 for "BOM
- Byte Order Marks")

So, the "old" C++ programm, when it sees that the first two bytes are
0xFFFE, converts the rest of the file to ASCII characters, using a
Windows function (WideCharToMultiByte), and then uses the normal C
string functions on ASCII characters. Of course, the international
characters UNICODE was invented for in the first place will get lost
in such a situation, but it seemed to work fine for my needs. You can
see the original C++ solution including the sourcecode here: 

http://www.p-nand-q.com/tools/regdiff.htm

OK, that is basically my knowledge on the subject. Limited, granted,
but it has sufficed so far in my pythonless past. 

Task 1: Reading in (such) a UNICODE file. 

I've asked that before a long time ago, see
http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=ku4rzpsb67.fsf%40lasipalatsi.fi&output=gplain.
Back then, in the times of 2.1, two solutions were proposed, neither
of which work:

>>> unicode(open('test.reg').read(), 'utf-8')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeError: UTF-8 decoding error: unexpected code byte

and

>>> import codecs
>>> encode, decode, reader, writer = codecs.lookup('utf-8')
>>> f = reader(open('test.reg'))
>>> print f.readlines()
[]

OK, after a bit of searching I suspect I might have to go for utf-16,
because that seems (to my limited UNICODE knowledge) like its the
two-byte-codec I was looking for:

>>> encode, decode, reader, writer = codecs.lookup('utf-16')
>>> f = reader(open('test.reg'))
>>> print f.readlines()
[]

Those are unexpected results in my view. I suspect the reason is the
BOM is not handled by those functions. This is a working solution: 

def ReadLinesFromAnything( filename ):
    file = open(filename)
    data = file.read()
    file.close()
    if data[:2] == '\xff\xfe':
        return unicode(data[2:],"utf-16").split("\n")
    else:
        return data.split("\n")

print ReadLinesFromAnything("test.reg")

My take on this is, that the builtin file-readlines() *should* really
know about BOM and return UNICODE strings if the file has a BOM. After
all, if you call readlines() on a file, you expect it to contain lines
of strings (either oldskool or UNICODE). You don't call readlines() on
a binary file in the first place. I volunteer to patch the readlines
function, if some other people out there feel that this is right, too.
(Of course, with my -thanks to c.l.p.- newgained knowledge on using
subclassed file objects, I can always use my own fileclass; so I would
like to argue that at the very least some such fileclass should be
part of the standard python lib).

Task 2: Writing out (such) a unicode file. 

My first foolish attempt:

lines = ReadLinesFromAnything("test.reg")
file = open("test.out","wb")
assert(type(lines[0])==types.UnicodeType)
file.write(lines[0])
file.close()

gives me the first line, all right, but in ASCII, not UNICODE! The
same result for both

file.write(u"test1")

and 

file.write(unicode("test2","utf-8"))

The data is ASCII, not (the-two-byte-kind-of-)UNICODE. Again, this is
an unexpected result. Next, I tried

file.write(unicode("test3","utf-16"))

which raises the following exception:

File "D:\Scripts\2002\02\read-unicode-lines.py", line 20, in ?
    file.write(unicode("test3","utf-16"))
UnicodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data

when I desperately try this:

data = unicode(lines[0],"utf-16")
file.write(data)

I get the exception

File "D:\Scripts\2002\02\read-unicode-lines.py", line 20, in ?
    data = unicode(lines[0],"utf-16")
TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported

which a) supports my belief that exceptions suck, and b) is a stupid
error message, because "decoding Unicode is not supported" is simply
not true as a general statement about python. 

At this point, I'm quite frustrated with the joint union of (the way
python handles UNICODE, the UNICODE standard, my knowledge of UNICODE,
and the documentation on this in the Python help). The tutorial has a
very brief section on UNICODE strings, but that is of no help. So I
look up the Python Unicode Tutorial at
http://www.reportlab.com/i18n/python_unicode_tutorial.html

Finally I get an idea that seems to work:

file.write(u"Hello".encode("utf-16"))

The hexdump looks OK, too. But, when I try to write multiple strings,
I run into trouble again, because each string is prefixed with the
BOM, and not the file only:

lines = ReadLinesFromAnything("test.reg")
file = open("test.out","wb")
for line in lines:
    file.write(line.encode("utf-16"))
file.close()

gives me a 0xFFFE for each line, which, to me, is an unexpected result
again. The original REGEDIT generated file had just one at the
beginning of the file. Of course, I can always join the strings and
write them as one, but, to sum up my
possibly-selfrighteous-complaints, I feel that there should be 

- *much* better support for UNICODE Textfiles in python
- a *much* better documentation on this in python.

So now I already feel much better :)









From ChrisE at lantech.com  Wed Mar  6 15:42:38 2002
From: ChrisE at lantech.com (Christopher Encapera)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:42:38 -0500 
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
Message-ID: <BC74F8F7E87DD511990C000103E2FEFA2F4E@XCHG>

As someone who just learned (a little) Python and wrote my first useful Ap a
few days ago, I would like to jump in here with my 1.5 cents.  Perhaps
another limitation to this analogy is, it seems to me, that programming IS
syntax and it's manipulation, and meaning is to be found in the (meaningful)
manipulation of the data.  A child, or adult, is inherently flexible when it
comes to syntax, but a computer is (inherently) not.  Thus:

A child:

I want da purtee pituur

or

Give me give me give me give me

or 

Will you show me the pretty picture please?



Whereas a computer accepts only (or some strict variant):

# Pseudo code for opening an imaging app, and sending output to print
device...
...
...
...

Thus, the need for jumping right into syntax immediately (if you want to
produce anything even remotely meaningful)


Also concerning logic, I think it would be (perhaps) more accurate to say
that people think (and solve most of their problems) at a higher level of
abstraction - more in the realm of "meanings" and "relationships" where many
different kinds of knowledge and inter-connectedness come into play.  The
thought world of formal logic and mathematics is too rigid to be the sole
(or even a major factor) in most thinking.  For example, my wife "thinks"
that my desk is "too messy" and that I need to "organize it", but what she
does not realize is that every pile is an organization (of sorts), and that
I...etc. etc (until the end of our hopefully "meaningful" lives :)



Christopher Encapera
Lantech.Com
chrise at lantech.com
502-267-4200


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Gerrietts [mailto:geoff at gerrietts.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:32 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...


Quoting Ramkumar Kashyap (rkashyap at sympatico.ca):
> This is extremely non-intuitive to most people.  Most 5,6,7 year olds 
> can speak fluently in their native languages, but how many of them could 
> tell you about vowels, consonants, nouns, verbs, adjectives.  In fact 
> quite a few of them speak multiple languages, can easily differentiate 
> sentence structures in those languages, but would be hard-pressed to 
> give defintions of the above.
> 
> So how come in programming, we ALWAYS jump into the constructs of a 
> language, rather than just doing, gaining proficiency and then 
> understanding how it is put together?

I think the analogy here is interesting and useful, and bears
consideration. I think that what you're asking for -- a reexamination
of the pedagogy surrounding computer programming -- is useful.

I would hesitate to suggest that your methodology is exactly
appropriate, though. Here's why:
...



My belief is that most people find computer programming to be
difficult because logic is not the natural way people think; it is a
forced mode. People tend to think intuitively, using "gut feelings"
and good guesswork. That's the way we tend to summarize the knowledge
of our experiences: as gut feelings.

Expressing things in a purely logical fashion is consequently
difficult for people, and very few ever receive formal training in
logic. What's worse is that trying to teach logic at the fundamental
level doesn't immediately apply. Logic itself is a tool that a person
must learn to use, and could easily fill several courses by itself.

...



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar 28 10:36:48 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:36:48 -0500
Subject: Declare list of large size
References: <mailman.1016495070.23614.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-002672.16430318032002@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1017326452.24160.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KMGo8.743$Ou.126@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Corrado Gioannini" <corrado.gioannini at nekhem.com> wrote
[ ... ]
> another way to build a mutable multidimensional array is simply
> >>> list = eval(repr([[0] * 2] * 2))
> avoiding the problem of multiple references to the same list object
>
> do you find it too dirty, unpleasant or un-pythonic?
> (i'm really asking, it's not an ironic question ;-] )
>
Very dirty! Somewhat unpleasant. My own view of its pythonicity is
about -0.5, though arguably it's a pragmatic solution for small data sets.
Building and evaluating a huge string isn't terribly good practice when
there are other ways to achieve the same end programmatically.

regards
 Steve






From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  8 13:22:42 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:22:42 -0600
Subject: why is python slow?
In-Reply-To: <a6ascr$19l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>
        <B8AD9351.4A8C%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
        <a6ascr$19l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <15497.370.433742.862460@beluga.mojam.com>

    Donn> ... I wonder if all of Python's performance problems are really so
    Donn> deep.  A few weeks ago someone posted some performance
    Donn> measurements and, among other things, noted that version 2.2 took
    Donn> twice as long just to start up.  Did that appalling statistic
    Donn> attract any investigation into the cause, ...

I believe the bulk of the effort in the 2.x series up to this point has
focused on functionality ahead of performance.  I'm sure there are things
that can be done.  Why not file a bug report, investigate and solve the
problem, then grab some of that fame and fortune I alluded in my post
seeking new developers yesterday?  (I'm not picking on Donn, he just happens
to be the one who raised this issue and gave me the nice segue.)

The group of people who actively beat on the code is still fairly small.  I
count 38 people currently with checkin privileges.  Of those, I count six
whose SF usernames I don't even recognize.  There are probably another five
to ten who don't regularly contribute to either checkins or python-dev
discussions.  That means the effective pool of developers is really quite
small.  That, in turn, means we need more eyeballs.  You don't need checkin
privileges to tackle an open bug or investigate a problem and report its
cause (a proposed solution would be helpful, but it might go a long ways
towards fixing a problem if you can narrow down the cause a bit).

    Donn> I believe I recall something similar in 2.0, due to a mistake in
    Donn> site.py that was discovered during the beta releases.  Not a hard
    Donn> problem, just one that wouldn't be noticed until someone wondered
    Donn> why performance went downhill so fast.  We can wave our hands and
    Donn> say performance is a tough problem, but it would be more
    Donn> convincing if it looked like it was getting the most minimal
    Donn> attention.

Agreed.  When can we expect that patch? ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 19 23:10:09 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 23:10:09 -0500
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a79231$dlc$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list at python.org>,
Nick Arnett <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
>
>Anybody have any experience generating word frequencies from short
>documents with Python and Perl?  Given a choice between the two, I'm
>wondering what will be faster.  And a related question... any idea
>if there will be a significant performance hit (or advantage?) from
>storing the data in MySQL v. my own file-based data structures?
>
>I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so)
>documents at a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.
>I'm thinking that the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of
>useless data.  Since word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm
>guessing that I can spot unusual words (my goal here) by loading up
>the top 80 percent or so of words in the database (by occurrences) and
>focusing on the words that are in the docs but not in the set retrieved
>from the database.

Well, well, well, long time no see.  Why not just use Verity?  ;-)

Seriously, for this kind of work, it's quite likely that Perl can be
coded to be a bit faster than Python, but if you're expecting to need to
do a lot of iterative work on your algorithms, programmer time will
count for a lot, and Python will probably win there.

Given that it sounds like you want to create your own inverted word
index and do some sorting/searching based on word counts, it'll be hard
to get more bang for the buck than a real database.  Unless you're on a
shoestring, consider getting a commercial database; you should probably
also check to see whether MySQL or PostgreSQL will give you better
performance.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Mar 24 15:50:09 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:50:09 -0300
Subject: [embed] PyImport_Import cannot find xml.py
In-Reply-To: <Ooqn8.5968$EE4.23248@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <Ooqn8.5968$EE4.23248@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020324175009.D20294@ibook.distro.conectiva>

[...]
>     >>> mod
>     <module 'xml' from 'xml.py'>
[...]
> so that says that the module is locatable by the interpreter. but when i
> compile and run the following program:

That's probably because this module is not in the module search path.

Try running the following, after Py_Initialize():

PySys_SetPath(Py_GetPath());

> modname = PyString_FromString("xml");
> mod = PyImport_Import(modname);

You may use PyImport_ImportModule("xml").

> Does anyone have a working example of Pure Embedding? It's for my personal
> private project - for fun, supposedly, well before it was, not my
> assignment.

I've embedded python in a couple of projects. But the best project you
will find is python, since it's "embedded" in itself.

;-))

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 15 15:55:10 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 20:55:10 GMT
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <10095d00.0203150319.12f9cbf9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6tn3e$95m$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Mar 2002 03:19:20 -0800, nsbase at yahoo.co.uk (Noel Smith) wrote:

>I've been recently using the Python shell on Linux as a handy way to
>get character numbers from various extended LATIN-1 characters.
>
>i.e. For UK pound and Yen currency signs:
>
>>>> print ord('?')
>163
>>>> print ord('?')
>165
>
>Which are the correct values.
>
>However I've recently installed python 7.2 on Windows NT4 and found it
>gives the following results when using the command line shell:
>
>>>> print ord('?')
>156
>>>> print ord('?')
>157
>
>Which is clearly wrong although strangely enough when I type the same
>thing into IDLE on Windows NT, it produces the correct results.
>
>Is this a bug or is there some windows character mapping going on
>behind the scenes which I've missed out? Is there any configuration
>that I've missed out?
>
The console version is using ascii, and IDLE is probably using
Courier new 10 point with latin-1 encoding.

You can edit \Python2x\Tools\idle\config-win.txt (x>=1?) and change the
font name to "terminal" and that will make idle close to the console font,
but not exactly. The encoding has to change from latin-1 (?) to "Windows Characters"
to get all the '\x80' to '\x9f' characters.
I don't know how to control python's output encoding to select "windows characters"

To see the characters in question, try this in the console window vs IDLE.
 >>> 
 print ''.join([chr(c) for c in xrange(0x80,0x9f+1)])
 ??????????????????????????????P?

(That's pasted from the console window with whatever encoding conversion
windows and my news reader may be doing).

 >>> print ''.join([chr(c) for c in xrange(0x80,0x9f+1)])
 ????????????????????????????????

(That's from IDLE with terminal font, copied and pasted. The boxes are
where the characters show up as on console, with the ??'s showing where characters
are left out because the encoding is still latin-1, not "windows characters".

Maybe there is an terminal font to show ascii for latin-1 encoding somewhere?

>Any help would be really appreciated.
>
I guess the problem is being worked on.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Wed Mar 20 14:52:21 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:52:21 -0800
Subject: Remove empty lines
References: <a7ajgm$8q1$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016649277.6397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a79t5m.3vs6v9f.1@kserver.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:33:55 -0800, "Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016649277.6397.python-list at python.org>:

> The problem is here, I think.  Split in Python appears to return the
> separator, so the '\n' characters are still there.

After posting my last article, I went back and looked at this thread more
carefully, and saw that it was using the re module. So, here is an example,
also, using re:

>>> mystring = 'Hello.\n\nHow are you today?\nFine, thanks.\n\n\nBye.'
>>> re.split('\n',mystring)
['Hello.', '', 'How are you today?', 'Fine, thanks.', '', '', 'Bye.']
>>> filter(None, re.split('\n', mystring))
['Hello.', 'How are you today?', 'Fine, thanks.', 'Bye.']
>>> for line in filter(None, re.split('\n', mystring)):
	print line

	
Hello.
How are you today?
Fine, thanks.
Bye.
>>> 

By the way, I wonder that it is even necessary to trot out the re module
for something as simple as removing comments and empty lines from code. You
should be able to do this with just string methods, and it should be faster
that way.

What is the characteristics to determine a comment in Java? (I haven't
coded in Java, so I'm not certain...I could make guesses, but...)

Would it by any chance be similar to comments in C++?

comment starts with

//

and all following characters on the same line,

Or enclosed within

/*  */


Something this simple shouldn't require re.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Mon Mar 11 18:10:51 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:10:51 GMT
Subject: COM traceback translation
References: <Wu8j8.9099$k5.3517961@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <%Paj8.9138$k5.3534461@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

next time i will rtfm before posting.  from pg 621 of python programming on
win32 ...
"Before a thread can use COM, it must call ... CoInitialize()"

-d


"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:Wu8j8.9099$k5.3517961 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> can anybody help with this one? there is a module called test_write.  when
> it is imported from a python prompt and generate_doc() is called it works
> fine.  When it is invoked by a COM object it throws this error.
>
> thanks,
>
> doug
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "X:\epsp2\server\bin\test_write.py", line 5, in generate_doc
>     wordApp = win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application')
>   File "C:\Python\win32com\client\__init__.py", line 94, in Dispatch
>     dispatch, userName =
> dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
>   File "C:\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 81, in
> _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
>     return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
>   File "C:\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 72, in
_GetGoodDispatch
>     IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
> pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
> pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.',
> None, None)
>
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 20:07:02 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:07:02 -0500
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
References: <3c8bf3ef@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <3C8C01D2.F9CC7C73@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C0336.B79D95AA@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Never do this. :-)  You have not specific which exception you
                                   ^^^^^^^^
D'oh!  I mean _specified_.

-type-slower-think-faster-ly yr's,
Peter


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sat Mar  2 12:43:35 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:43:35 +0100
Subject: Forwarding messages with the email package
In-Reply-To: <20020204041714.GA2141@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <20020204041714.GA2141@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <20020302174334.GA6868@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 04/02/02 ? 05:17, Gerhard H?ring ?crivit:
> I'm having some problems with the new email package in Python 2.2. I
> guess the reason is that I don't really understand MIME and I fear my
> head will explode when I try to make sense of the source code of the
> email package.
> 
> What I'm trying to do is forward an email message with MIME. I. e. not
> inline. I'm trying to duplicate what my MUA does. It creates a
> multipart/mixed MIME doc with a text/plain part and a message/rfc822
> part, that contains the email to forward. So, my current code is:
> [snip buggy code]

Hello Gerhard, maybe you'll find the following code useful:

#!/usr/bin/env python2.2
#
# Written by: Gerhard H?ring (gerhard at bigfoot.de)
# License: none/public domain

import sys, os, smtplib, email
from email.Message import Message
from email.MIMEBase import MIMEBase
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
from email.MIMEMessage import MIMEMessage

class Config:
    """Settings for Spamcop reports.
    You must at least change SUBMISSION_ADDRESS to match the one you got from
    Spamcop. You also need to provide a valid SMTP server address, localhost is
    just fine on many *nix systems."""
    SUBMISSION_ADDRESS = "Spamcop <submit.abcdefghijklmnop at spam.spamcop.net>"
    SMTP_SERVER = "localhost"
    MY_ADDRESS = "you at yournetwork.net"
    SUBJECT = "Spam report"
    BODY = "Dear Spamcop! Please analyze the following spam."

def strip_spamassassin_markup(spam):
    infile, outfile = os.popen2("spamassassin -d -")
    infile.write(spam)
    infile.close()
    return outfile.read()

def main():
    forwarded_mail = strip_spamassassin_markup(sys.stdin.read())

    me = Config.MY_ADDRESS
    to = [Config.SUBMISSION_ADDRESS]
    message = MIMEBase("multipart", "mixed")
    message["Subject"] = Config.SUBJECT
    message["From"] = Config.MY_ADDRESS
    message["To"] = ", ".join(to)

    message.attach(MIMEText(Config.BODY))

    rfcmessage = MIMEBase("message", "rfc822")
    message_to_forward = email.message_from_string(forwarded_mail)
    rfcmessage.attach(message_to_forward)
    message.attach(rfcmessage)

    smtpserver = smtplib.SMTP(Config.SMTP_SERVER)
    smtpserver.sendmail(me, to, message.as_string(unixfrom=0))
    smtpserver.close() 

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()

Hmm, maybe I should submit a patch to the docs of the email module.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 2.4 ?C      Wind: 3.4 m/s



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 06:31:06 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:31:06 +0100
Subject: GUI programming
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org> <a84561$p5g$1@wanadoo.fr> <slrnaabbct.npb.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>
Message-ID: <4fsdauofmus28t630866pgf4cu3n6bp16m@4ax.com>

"Charl P. Botha" <cpbotha at i_triple_e.org> wrote:

>With wxPython, one has to get, configure and build wxWindows first (and this
>does take quite a while).  

Nonsense.

1. Download
2. Run Setup
3. Use it.

The whole operation takes less than 5 minutes.

Well - it does on Windows, anyway.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Sun Mar 24 01:11:58 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:11:58 -0700
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1016945436.31630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7jqsg$3lr$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Tripp Scott asked:
>can i generate this list:
>
>  [1, 1.1, 2, 2.1, 3, 3.1]
>
>with a list comprehension in a form of this:
>
>  [SOMETHING for x in 1,2,3]
>
>and without using side effects like this?

There is no way with list comprehensions which is more
elegant than the standard solution, which is

result = []
for i in 1, 2, 3:
    result.extend([i, i + 0.1])

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Thu Mar  7 13:19:25 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:19:25 -0300
Subject: Python/C - Memory-Management
In-Reply-To: <d013da35.0203070154.64411e59@posting.google.com>
References: <d013da35.0203070154.64411e59@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020307151925.A2974@ibook.distro.conectiva>

[...]
> If another function calls init_mem, it can use memory until free_mem
> is called... I want to do the same now in Python, but it seems as if
> the static memory isnt kept somewhere? When I try accessing it, I get
> a Segmentation Fault... Any suggestions?

o  Wrap your functions as a C type method.
o  Keep a static reference counter of the number of objects of this
   type alive.
o  Increase the counter every time a new object is born.
o  Decrease the counter every time an object dies.
o  When the counter goes from 0 to 1, allocate your memory.
o  When the counter goes from 1 to 0, deallocate it.
o  Keep in mind that if these functions share a common memory area,
   they may overlap each other, and crash your application, depending
   on the kind of operation they're doing.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar  2 10:00:48 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 16:00:48 +0100
Subject: a simple 'else' decrease speed by 1000 times.
References: <3C80BBAC.2060600@student.kun.nl> <Xns91C59BFDB1196cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3C80E535.7000407@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns91C5A37D46EAAcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

husam <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in news:3C80E535.7000407
@student.kun.nl:

> Chris Liechti wrote:
> 
>> husam <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in news:3C80BBAC.2060600
>> @student.kun.nl: 
>> 
>>>One else statement decrease speed by 1000 times. Why is that?
>>>
>> ...
>> 
>>>                           if prv == n[i][-1]: n[i].append(new)
>>>                                print count, '\t', i , '\t',n[i]
>>>                                count = count +1 break else:
>>>                              n[i].append(0) 
>>>
>> 
>> 'cause your not "break"-ing here? but you do in the "if-then" 
part...
> 
> 
> It should not break here. Because imagin that the matching 'prv' is 
> somewhere in a line in the middle of the file, the code will break 
> immediately at the first non-matching line.

yes, you're right but that means that the else part is executen many 
times and that will slow down your program. 

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From ron.l.johnson at cox.net  Mon Mar  4 20:38:30 2002
From: ron.l.johnson at cox.net (Ron Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:38:30 GMT
Subject: Converting mailbox formats
References: <o7Fg8.35969$jC3.925924@news1.east.cox.net> <slrna86hfd.jfu.fig@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <qkVg8.37721$jC3.1002194@news1.east.cox.net>

On 04 Mar 2002, 10:01:40, Stephen R. Figgins wrote:
> In article <o7Fg8.35969$jC3.925924 at news1.east.cox.net>, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Are there pythonic methods for converting the MH message header 
> > format to the mbox message header format?
> 
> Does it need to be in Python?  Check out the packf command which comes
> with MH, it will pack your folders into mbox style.
> 
> -Stephen

Nope, doesn't _have_ to be in python.  Thanks for packf.

However, doing it in would be nice, as a learning tool for the
various mail-related modules...

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ron Johnson, Jr.        Home: ron.l.johnson at cox.net        |
| Jefferson, LA  USA      http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81    |
|                                                            |
| 484,246 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4   !
! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.                |
! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri.                  !
! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom.       |
+------------------------------------------------------------+


From arun-public at sharma-home.net  Sun Mar 10 23:33:07 2002
From: arun-public at sharma-home.net (Arun Sharma)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:33:07 GMT
Subject: Iterating over unicode strings
References: <3C8C3136.9050507@sharma-home.net>
Message-ID: <3C8C3258.9030200@sharma-home.net>

Forgot to mention - using python 2.1

	-Arun

Arun Sharma wrote:
> 
> I would like to iterate over the following unicode string one character 
> at a time.
> 
> line = u"??|| ?????? ?????"
> for c in line:
>     print c
> 
> fails miserably. What is the right way to do it ? I would also like to 
> be able to slice the string i.e. line[i] to get the i'th character.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
>     -Arun
> 




From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 25 07:07:30 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:07:30 GMT
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
References: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <u4rjc4bzw.fsf@python.net> <a7kabj$31d$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <uu1r4yhia.fsf@python.net>

ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy) writes:

> Hi,
> 
> > > With Python-2.2.1c1, I find `make test' fails on my old version of
> > > Linux/x86 and it fails to build on an also old version of AIX.  ...
> > > I can see the problem with the AIX build.  Linux SIGSEGVs in
> > > test_calendar on a call to strftime.
> 
> OK, I've raised all the AIX problems on SourceForge now.  By working
> around them I can get a python executable and most of the library.
> (Modules/_cursesmodule.c fails to compile but I'm not sure if is
> intended to be widely buildable.)

I'll try to sort out the AIX mess to the best of my ability, but I
think my priority is more not breaking any other platform...

> The Linux/x86 problem has also been fixed and thanks to Tim an overall
> improvement made, e.g. month_name[0].

Yep.

> Thanks for everyone's help,

Thanks for yours!

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  You're posting to a Scheme group. Around here, arguing that Java is
  better than C++ is like arguing that grasshoppers taste better than
  tree bark.                        -- Thant Tessman, comp.lang.scheme


From frederic.giacometti at arakne.com  Mon Mar  4 16:31:08 2002
From: frederic.giacometti at arakne.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:31:08 GMT
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <a609o1$108$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C83E848.2BB58E2B@arakne.com>


Aahz Maruch wrote:

> In article <3C838150.97A86F52 at arakne.com>,
> Frederic Giacometti  <frederic.giacometti at arakne.com> wrote:
> >Aahz Maruch wrote:
> >
> >More precisely, the point of stackless is to dispense from OS threads
> >(and Python lock) overheads for running threaded Python bytecode.
> >However, OS threads are still required to take charge of calls to
> >blocking C function (usually from external C libraries) that one want
> >to run asynchronously to the PVM; there is no turn around to this.
>
> Sure there is: just use Python's standard threading capabilities and
> release the Global Interpreter Lock, just like you do now.  I will grant
> that it's not the most convenient thing in the world, and maybe we'll
> want to fix this in the future, but I think that getting Stackless done
> and squared away is more important than resolving this in the cleanest
> possible fasion.

???

FYI, Python threads rely on the underlying OS thread switching + OS lock
synchronization API.... It's not because you don't see it that it is not used :))
Furthermore, as everyone in this thread knows by now, stackless is a pre-requisite
to Python microthreads. Thanks you for reminding it :))

FG




From gcordova at hebmex.com  Tue Mar 26 10:49:25 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:49:25 -0600
Subject: Optimizations (was Re: reduce vs. for loop)
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689D5@SRM201002>

> 
> > >Just out curiosity, 
> > >why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
> > >
> > >def fact1(n):
> > >    return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
> > >
> > >def fact2(n):
> > >    result = n * 1L
> > >    for i in range(1 , n):
> > >        result *= i
> > >    return result
> > 
> > Try this:
> > 
> > def fact3(n):
> >     mul = operator.mul
> >     return reduce(mul, range(1L, n+1) )
> 
> operator.mul will be evaluated only once in even in fact1, so this 
> shouldn't make any difference.
> 
> Just

And I re-ran the tests using the normal functions, and then
again after applying psyco.bind() to them. Here's the times
with n=10000:

===== TEST PRINTOUT =====

Running factorial tests (n=10000)
fact1: 5.16 seconds.
fact2: 4.73 seconds.
fact3: 4.78 seconds.
** Applying psyco.bind()
** Rerunning tests.
psyco: sys._getframe() not supported; support for warnings is only partial
fact1: 4.77 seconds.
fact2: 4.45 seconds.
fact3: 4.78 seconds.
Press <enter> to quit.

=========================

Oh well.

:-)

-gustavo



From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Mar  6 21:29:18 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 11:29:18 +0900
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y9h5m7pd.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Skip> There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related
    Skip> to further enhancements to the language.  I think in general
    Skip> that if more of this energy was directed at the overall
    Skip> environment (library, support tools, installers,
    Skip> documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.

There are also proposed enhancements that are dangerous as additions
to the language, while they would be unobjectionable (and serve the
purpose equally well) as part of the environment.  (Cf. PEP 263
discussion.)


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 18:16:14 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:16:14 +0000
Subject: Implementation Advice
References: <a6tefs$opi$1@horsefly.nf.net>
Message-ID: <slrna9505u.5jb.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:28:10 -0800, Ken <khirmint at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hey everyone..
>
>I'm trying to create a system where users log in, and based on how they log
>in or who they log in as, they get a different set of functionality.
>
>A really simple example would be a multi-room chat, where each room has some
>common functionality (ie.send/receive messages) and some extras like
>different color text.
>
>I'd like to keep the functionality for each room in a separate file.
>
>My question is, should each file have a class declaration (using inheritance
>where appropriate) containing the necessary additional functions,
>initialization, etc.. Or, should each file contain a series of functions?
>One common to all files to initialize a room and then modify it and add
>functions to it as necessary?

I'd use classes.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 14:30:35 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:35 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF80C087BE.4DFF8FF3-ON88256B73.006A1571@i2.com>

[Tim Delaney]
> Just realised something for PEP 276.
>
> If it passes,
>
> for i in dictionary.has_key(item):
>
> would then be valid ... as it would return 0 or 1.

On the other hand, if it *doesn't* pass
    dictionary.has_key(item) ** dictionary.has_key(item)
will be valid <wink>.

> This may or
> may not be considered a bad thing - it would be equivalent to:
>
> if dictionary.has_key(item):
>
> for any condition that does return 0 or 1.

As you point out, this oddity is odd in a relatively benign sort of way, at
least <wink>.  More seriously though, I think that this falls into the
category of trade-offs that one deals with when taking advantage of
Python's "less explicit, but more practical" choice of using domain values
for true/false rather than using explicit boolean objects.

Jim





From trentm at ActiveState.com  Mon Mar 18 16:09:16 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:09:16 -0800
Subject: Windows Installation
In-Reply-To: <a6tvt9$hfd$2@peabody.colorado.edu>; from fperez528@yahoo.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 04:25:13PM +0000
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <u94n0p932q6j12@news.supernews.com> <a6trfp$f65$2@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1016231129.5794.python-list@python.org> <a6tvt9$hfd$2@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <20020318130916.A24888@ActiveState.com>

[Fernando P?rez wrote]
> Ah, thanks for the info. I assume those calls are basically wrappers for 
> clean access to those registry keys which ultimately hold the information, 

I assume so too. :)

> 
> The bulk of what I had in mind (but didn't clearly express :) remains: you 
> can't just assume C:\Windows\Start Menu, you need to get the actual value 
> of that directory in some form (and your api solution is much better than 
> my registry access).

Yup.


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From threehounds at worldnet.att.net  Wed Mar 13 22:35:12 2002
From: threehounds at worldnet.att.net (Matthew Austin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:35:12 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <a6on8n$frj93$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <QTUj8.10299$Ex5.957528@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

RPy has not been ported to Windows yet.


"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:a6on8n$frj93$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> "dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
> news:OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> > hi all,
> >
> > never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking advice
> on how
> > to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need
> to find
> > standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am
> seeking
> > advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i
> am
> > wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the task.
>
> You might want to take a look at rpy at
> http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy/
>
> --
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
>
> ---------
>




From amoustafa at pobox.com  Thu Mar 21 03:40:49 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:40:49 GMT
Subject: MySQL's applicability (was: Java and Python)
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3C984F44.1090001@pobox.com> <3C9887B9.6090603@thinkware.se> <82B3E32A4EFF0E57.126AAAECC4E2B809.F8613C4251DB7A4B@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3C999C77.3010801@pobox.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> Undeniably.  That's certainly the conclusion of "the first time
> a computer publication has published database benchmark results
> ...", as *eWeek* did in its 25 February 2002 issue.  The subtitle
> of the article was "Oracle9i and MySQL top the field ..."
> 
> So, no, MySQL is NOT "related to small to mid-size web applica-
> tions".

They were measuring the response times. A file-based application may do 
the function with a response time in the same order which doesn't imply 
that a file-based app is comparable to Oracle 9i. Their test generated 
200,000 orders, that is a small-size web application, right? Also, parts 
of the test used the nontransactional engine of MySQL!

-- 
Ahmed Moustafa



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 15 21:56:16 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:56:16 -0800
Subject: Wrong transfer of data (ODBC)
References: <a6tdj0$rfb$1@vg170.it.volvo.se>
Message-ID: <a6ucj5$h3fj6$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Santiago" <it.santiago at memo.volvo.se> wrote in message
news:a6tdj0$rfb$1 at vg170.it.volvo.se...
> I was trying to use the 'Python ODBC Notes (Windows Only)'  wrote by
John
> Dell'Aguila 2/11/98.(at the bottom you will see the program)
> I used the ODBC using Python Database API. from the AS/400 database to
the
> PC Windows.
>
> But when I get the data from the AS/400 I get the string fields okay,
but
> the fields with decimals , like price, it appears with wrong decimals.
> The price field in the AS/400 has eleven digits (9 integers and 2
decimals).
>
> For example, the data in the AS/400 is 15860.94  but what I get is
> 15860.94000000001.


http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.098.htp

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From nikander at nc.rr.com  Tue Mar 12 15:13:39 2002
From: nikander at nc.rr.com (Rob Nikander)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:13:39 GMT
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
Message-ID: <Tjtj8.48802$3O2.18198075@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>

Are there any projects out there that allow you to embed python in HTML
like PHP?  I like the PHP-style of embedding the bits of program in HTML,
but I'd like to use python...
Something like:

<html>
<?python
	print "<ul>"
	for reptile in ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]:
		print "<li> %s </li>" % reptile
	print "</ul>"
?>
</html>


From kp87 at lycos.com  Sat Mar  9 05:12:45 2002
From: kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 02:12:45 -0800
Subject: Voss 1/f noise algo help
References: <5e8bd451.0203080150.44a259ce@posting.google.com> <a6a87o$935$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5e8bd451.0203090212.6c7a2434@posting.google.com>

Thanks for your reply. I will try out your approach. However i am
still hoping to get the above working as well as it doesn't require an
FFT.

I see you also do micro-tonal music. Nice to meet you.


<kevin>


From boud at valdyas.org  Sat Mar  2 12:25:26 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:25:26 -0100
Subject: PyQT and shaped windows in X
References: <d906b2c1.0202280334.35f7942f@posting.google.com> <3c80ef25$0$90048$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3c80efbe$0$90048$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> 
> Well, it certainly isn't very Qt specific.
> 

I meant to type: PyQt specific.
-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 18:36:07 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:36:07 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:44:12 EST."
             <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> 
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> 
Message-ID: <200203302336.g2UNa8F10511@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> [Guido, on why operator.truth() should change to return True/False]
> > Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> > an int is int(b).

[[Tim, being difficult]
> It's also an incorrect way for me,

No it's not, note that I said "turn a bool b into an int".  Clearly
the assumption there is that b is a bool, not an arbitrary value in
whose truth value we're interested.

> because I meant "true/false expression" in the way Python has always
> meant it, e.g. operator.truth([]) == 0, but int([]) raises an
> exception.  The alternative int(bool(b)) is not obvious (else you
> would have thought of it first <wink>), and becomes needed only if
> operator.truth() is changed.

IMO, bool(x) is the right way to "normalize" any value into a truth
value.  The way I think of operator.truth(x) is as something returning
a normalized truth value.  Since we're changing all places that return
standard truth values from returning 0/1 to returning False/True, I
don't see why operator.truth() should not follow suit.  If we think
that we can change comparisons, isinstance(), s.islower() and so on to
return a bool without breaking much, I see no reason why we can't
change operator.truth().

> > Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for this purpose is
> > backwards.
> 
> Under the PEP it's extremely easy to get a bool result (bool(b)), so
> I favor presuming that anyone bothering to use operator.truth() will
> do so because bool() doesn't do what they want;

No, they do so because they wrote the code before bool existed.

> and if they're using truth() in 2.2, are doing so because they
> specifically want a 0/1 result.

And since False==0 and True==1, that's what they're getting.

I'm going to make this a BDFL pronouncement; I understand your
argument but I don't agree with it.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From camh at zip.com.au  Tue Mar 12 17:30:40 2002
From: camh at zip.com.au (Cameron Hutchison)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:40 +1100
Subject: Setting UNIX environment with a Python script
References: <3C8D143A.17963385@all.com> <B59j8.19604$N7.4435538@ruti.visi.com> <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649@zip.com.au> <slrna8qpqb.16e.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.13.09.30.40.476515.3090@zip.com.au>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:25:57 +1100, Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649 at zip.com.au>, Cameron
> Hutchison wrote:
> 
>> What you need to do instead is have your python program print on stdout
>> the name of the ora_env file to source. Then you invoke your python
>> script from your shell login script like this (bourne style shell
>> assumed):
>> 
>> eval "source ora_env.`get_ora_name`"
> 
> Another common method is to have your Python program write the shell
> commands to stdout, then execute them with something like
> 
> eval `myPythonProgram`
> 

While that would work fine, I dont think it's a terribly good idea. I
think it would be cleaner to keep the shell syntax in a shell script and
avoid having the python program assume the scripting environment it is
returning to.


From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Sun Mar 24 04:23:01 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:23:01 GMT
Subject: C++ Embedding Problem - Import Error
References: <3C9C4D48.7010000@SPAMnwinternet.com> <mailman.1016958877.4217.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9D9A1F.3010701@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> [...]

>>Just to be clear, I'm linking libpython into another .so
>>lib that's dlopened by an app. There is no possibility of
>>linking Python directly with the app (or I wouldn't be
>>writing a plugin in the first place).

> You must open your plugin with RTLD_GLOBAL, otherwise the
> symbols inherited from libpython.a won't be available for the
> dynamic loaded modules.

I was afraid that might end up being the case. Since I
don't have control of the code that loads the library,
I'll probably have to load that part in my code.

Thanks.

Jim



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Mar  1 09:56:32 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 08:56:32 -0600
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net> <kuadtss9j0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <F44244F45915BD6A.CD7D175D0E4F411E.1638668D5B0EB37E@lp.airnews.net>

In article <kuadtss9j0.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
Erno Kuusela  <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
>In article <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763 at news.hananet.net>, Jonathan Gardner
><jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:
>
>| Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that has the 
>| equivalent of the unix shell utilities?
	...
>| nice if they ended up being compatible with Windows and Macintosh - give 
>| them some powerful tools they didn't even know existed!
>
>you can get the real things for windows with cygwin. macintoshes are
>natively unix-based these days.
>
>if you decide to go ahead with it, you could look into
><URL: http://www.perl.com/language/ppt/> for ideas and inspiration.
	...
Also <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ExampleScripts >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:39 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:34:39 GMT
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
References: <3c8bf3ef@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <6b6o8u46eqbf0l4u01ais4es3j47bsqr1o@4ax.com>

>Hi, given the fact that excpetion handling can be very
>expensive in languages like C++ - is python similar in
>this aspect?

No. In Python, exceptions are practically free in comparison.
They are implemented internally by sending back the appropriate
return code and setting an error node. 

C//



From hst at empolis.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 08:06:21 2002
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:06:21 -0000
Subject: SAX-Parser entity
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB220AEE@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

I would guess that your document is in ISO 8859/1 (otherwise known as latin-1). XML parsers must be able to parse utf-8 and utf-16 and may support other encodings. If your parser supports latin-1 then modify the XML declaration. Otherwise use the codecs module.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: fabi.kreutz at gmx.de [mailto:fabi.kreutz at gmx.de]
> Sent: 01 March 2002 12:43
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: SAX-Parser entity
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I spend the last 3 hours browsing FAQs and Mailinglist - 
> without success -
> but have nevertheless the feeling, that this is a very easy question:
> 
> I try to use the minidom XML-Parser to parse my little file 
> in order to
> generate HTML Code.
> Being german, I really like to use Umlauts but minidom does not.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File 
> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", 
> line 908, in parse
>     return _doparse(pulldom.parse, args, kwargs)
>   File 
> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", 
> line 900, in _doparse
>     toktype, rootNode = events.getEvent()
>   File 
> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/pulldom.py", 
> line 251, in getEvent
>     self.parser.feed(buf)
>   File 
> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.py"
> , line 92, in feed
>     self._err_handler.fatalError(exc)
>   File 
> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/handler.py", 
> line 38, in fatalError
>     raise exception
> xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: <unknown>:29:19: not 
> well-formed
> 
> where Character 19 in Row 29 is the occurence of an ?.
> 
> After browsing the FAQs I changed the default encoding in site.py to
> iso-8859-1, which had some nice effect, but not on minidom.
> Some more browsing let me tell pulldom to use StringIO 
> instead of cStringIO,
> still no success.
> 
> Since I want to use the text in HTML it would be enough, if I 
> could use
> the &uuml; instead, but parse gives me in this case
> ...
>   File 
> "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/handler.py", 
> line 38, in fatalError
>     raise exception
> xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: <unknown>:29:19: 
> undefined entity
> 
> where 29:19 is the &.
> I tried to protected it with an \ or / but still no success.
> 
> Can anybody help me with this?
> 
> -- 
> The irony of the Information Age is that it has given
> new respectability to uninformed opinion.
> 					- John Lawton
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet
> delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further
> information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or 
> alternatively call
> Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.
> 

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.



From whale at mycameo.com  Thu Mar  7 01:20:40 2002
From: whale at mycameo.com (whale)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:20:40 +0800
Subject: Problem with opening PCX image
Message-ID: <PJEDJHHNKKHHMLOINBGLMEMECCAA.whale@mycameo.com>

When I opened PCX images with PIL, most images work fine.
However, there is one image I opened it with the same procedure, the exception occured.
I can view this image with different image viewer.
I am not sure how does this happen?
Is this the bug existing in PIL module?
I put a problematic image online at http://www.mycameo.com/download/fromQA.PCX
Please take a look at it.
Thanks a lot.

PythonWin 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (MarkH at ActiveState.com) - see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>> import Image
>> im = Image.open("fromQA.PCX")
>> im.load()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "D:\Python21\Image\PIL\ImageFile.py", line 166, in load
    raise IOError, "decoder error %d when reading image file" % e
IOError: decoder error -1 when reading image file

From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 15:19:00 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:19:00 +0000
Subject: running python on win2k
References: <mailman.1017139719.4759.python-list@python.org> <3CA0C734.59DB3CE3@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <tkl1auksomt80o9fu2sm9uupu6emnfcq37@4ax.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:


>From the command line, simply type "python", or "python myscript.py".  If
>you have .py files registered as executable, you can simply type
>"myscript.py" as well -- I know that ActiveState's distribution will do
>this on installation; I haven't tested whether PythonLabs' installer
>automatically does this, but it's likely.

It does but it doesn't register the Python exentions as runnable.

If you register the correct extensions you can run a program just by
typing the name (without the extension) at a command prompt, as long
as the module is in your path or current directory.

To register the Python extensions, you need to add the following to
you PATHEXT environment variable:

.py;.pyc;.pys;.pyw

Permanent changes to PATHEXT can be made from the properties of My
Computer in Win2K and NT4
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Mar 16 15:48:24 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:48:24 +0300
Subject: SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer question
In-Reply-To: <a263f04a.0203161234.6f1236bf@posting.google.com>; from spokra@home.com on Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 12:34:17PM -0800
References: <a263f04a.0203161234.6f1236bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020316234824.A10025@phd.pp.ru>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 12:34:17PM -0800, Steven Pokrandt wrote:
> trying to use the threading tcp server class.  It all works right from
> a quick look.  But when I run top I see many processes leading me to
> think it is really forking.

   Linux shows threads as separate processes in top/ps/etc. But they are
threads.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From garret_mcgraw at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 09:40:54 2002
From: garret_mcgraw at yahoo.com (garret_mcgraw)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:40:54 -0000
Subject: I am not getting group messages
Message-ID: <a5o3tm+gac@eGroups.com>

I am not getting any group messages. Could any body tell me why?

GM





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 19 15:27:00 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:27:00 GMT
Subject: Extending Python/Tkinter
References: <5acdbd0c.0203190838.20c3733e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oaNl8.26185$n4.5137051@newsc.telia.net>

Cris Eck wrote:

> Initially I thought  I could get a drawable, display and graphics
> context from the Tk C API.  Then I saw that Tkinter is using the
> Tcl interpreter and not calling the Tk routines directly.

well, the fact that there's a Tcl interpreter involved doesn't
mean that you won't end up in the Tk library when it's time
to draw something...

one way to implement this is to use the Tkinter 3000 WCK to
take care of the Tkinter interface bit, and call your widget code
from relevant ui_handle methods, e.g:

# tkinter 3000 framework
from tk3 import Widget

# import map widget driver
import _mapwidget

class MapWidget(Widget):
    def ui_handle_resize(self, width, height):
        _mapwidget.resize(self.winfo_id(), width, height)
    def ui_handle_repair(self, draw, x0, y0, x1, y1):
        window = self.winfo_id()
        _mapwidget.redraw(self.winfo_id(), x0, y0, x1, y1)

in the _mapwidget extension, use the window handle to get
the display (etc) using ordinary Tk calls.

more info here: http://effbot.org/tkinter

</F>




From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Mar 21 14:30:01 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 20:30:01 +0100
Subject: IntSpan?
References: <3c97c886@news.nwlink.com> <3C99F049.5A78B149@metaslash.com> <3c9a1ae9$1@news.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91D8D0AC73EBCcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Jeff Bienstadt" <jeffbi at jetsoft.com> wrote in
news:3c9a1ae9$1 at news.nwlink.com: 
> "Neal Norwitz" <neal at metaslash.com> wrote in message
> news:3C99F049.5A78B149 at metaslash.com...
>> Jeff Bienstadt wrote:
>> > I'm looking for something that inteligently handles and 
manipulates
>> > spans of integers, such as: 2-356,456,458-500
>>
>> I'm not familiar with IntSpan, but have you looked at the builtin
>> range()? 
>> >>> print range.__doc__
>> range([start,] stop[, step]) -> list of integers
>>
> Yes, I knew about range, but that's not quite what I'm looking for.
> 
> Using range to create the full list of integers seems prohibitively
> expensive --- spans in the range 1-400000 are not at all out of 
> line.
> 
...
> I can see from your reply how range could be useful in the
> implementation, for creating temporary lists of values to work
> with but again, since the spans could be quite long, this
> seems expensive.

in ypthon 2.2 you could do that with a generator.
>>> form __future__ import generators
>>> def spanning():
...    	for i in xrange(3,10):
...    	    	yield i
...    	yield 99
...    	for i in xrange(20,30):
...    	    	yield i

testing:
>>> for i in spanning(): print i

using xrange instead of range does not allocate a list but generates 
the vaulues when they're needed.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 24 15:10:22 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:10:22 GMT
Subject: [embed] PyImport_Import cannot find xml.py
Message-ID: <Ooqn8.5968$EE4.23248@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

I've located the problem down to this. i have a file "xml.py" which has a
function "getProjects()" which i would like to access from c. In the
interpreter i execute the following commands:

    Python 2.1.2 (#2, Jan 18 2002, 11:23:35)
    [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> modname = "xml"
    >>> mod = __import__(modname)
    >>> mod
    <module 'xml' from 'xml.py'>
    >>>

so that says that the module is locatable by the interpreter. but when i
compile and run the following program:

    #include <Py/Python.h>

    int main (int argc, char *argv[]) {
            // declare variables
            PyObject *modname = NULL;
            PyObject *mod = NULL;

            // init
            Py_Initialize();

            modname = PyString_FromString("xml");
            mod = PyImport_Import(modname);
            if (mod == NULL) printf("mod is null\n");

            Py_XDECREF(mod);
            Py_XDECREF(modname);
            Py_Exit(0);
    }

it prints out "mod is null" meaning it cant find the module.

Does anyone have a working example of Pure Embedding? It's for my personal
private project - for fun, supposedly, well before it was, not my
assignment.

Please :(
Cheeeeeeeeeeers

--
Trung Hoang
Final year Undergraduate of Computer Science and Technology
University of Sydney, Australia.




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar 30 18:00:17 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:00:17 GMT
Subject: list of functions
References: <01rp8.34168$tg4.401910@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <5srp8.1166$AE1.554@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

Is this what you want?

x = (1,2,3) #create a tuple

apply(list_of_functions[0], x) #apply args to function
#or
list_of_functions[0](*x)
--
-

"John" <nobody at nobody.com> wrote in message
news:01rp8.34168$tg4.401910 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
>
> Hi,
>
> I was glad to find that Python allows the following:
>
> def addone(a): return a+1
> list_of_functions=[addone]
> list_of_functions[0](1)  --> returns 2
>
> However, what if the functions require more than one arguments? say
> def addall(a,b,c): return a+b+c?
> Though list_of_functions[0](1,2,3) works, I'd like to make (1,2,3) as
> variables.. How do I pass the variables to such functions?
>
>




From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 13:43:30 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:43:30 -0800
Subject: personel CDDB
In-Reply-To: <4a7fde99.0203251840.2aafdf58@posting.google.com>
References: <4a7fde99.0203251840.2aafdf58@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020326104330.3fca8859.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 25 Mar 2002 18:40:01 -0800
Ryan wrote:

> I'm thinking about writting a personel CD database that links into RDB
> so you can put in a cd and have python link to crdb and make a
> personel database to keep track of your cd's (and maybe rip mp3s from
> it and store them in the database to)  I'm wondering if many people
> would have an interest in this so I will know whether to just write it
> so it works, or write it the right way, (ie. pure python and a gui
> using anydb).  If it's just for me it won't be nearly as robust and
> will use a lot of win32 extensions (for speed).  If there is enough
> interest I may even post to source-forge.

Be sure and check the vaults first, as there are already some projects that
address things related to this (accessing CDDB, reading ID3 tags, etc), so
you can save yourself some work and make someone else happy by using their
code ;)

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 24 02:28:50 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:28:50 GMT
Subject: even a typing noob :)
References: <T1fn8.5030$EE4.17777@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Sefn8.5053$EE4.17803@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

because
absolutely

:)


--
Trung Hoang
Final year Undergraduate of Computer Science and Technology
University of Sydney, Australia.




From ingoogni at CUT.THIS.OUT.home.nl  Fri Mar 29 08:10:50 2002
From: ingoogni at CUT.THIS.OUT.home.nl (ingo)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:10:50 GMT
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com> <slrnaa7gc7.26a.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3CA3D86A.7080806@yahoo.com> <67abb823.0203290500.3a3a7da1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91E090718F875seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl>

in news:67abb823.0203290500.3a3a7da1 at posting.google.com Sloth wrote:

> On the other hand, less is more in
> this scenario and, frankly, now I'm just being stubborn and trying to
> get Python to act as its own CGI server.

---%<------%<---
from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer
from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler
import os

port = 80
serv = HTTPServer(('', port), CGIHTTPRequestHandler)
print "Running Web Server at port: ", port
serv.serve_forever()
---%<------%<---

Then point your browser to http:\\localhost\somehtmlfile.html

Ingo


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar  7 03:58:37 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 09:58:37 +0100
Subject: Passing Unicode strings to Database
References: <mailman.1015413129.16676.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37koobvpe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Mikhail Astafiev <mikle at tomsk.net> writes:

> runes is array.array('H') containing Unicode string.
> 
> Database string field has "ntext" type. How can I overcome this
> problem?

I recommend to use Python 2.x, and use Unicode objects to represent
Unicode strings. For Python 1.5, if you are using the Win32
extensions, you can also try to use Mark's Unicode type.

Regards,
Martin


From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Tue Mar 26 14:23:08 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:23:08 +0100
Subject: stop
Message-ID: <sca0d8d0.045@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

ah, the joy.
thank you.

/fredrik

>>> "Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> 03/26/02 20:22 PM >>>
Fredrik wrote:
> Ok, so I'm going to be quite honest, I dont write perfect code, so
today
> while working in PythonWin I imported a file. Problem was that the
file
> happened to contain an infinte loop, which the interpreter gladly ran,
> untill I killed the entrire program. Annoying. Is there no %&/!#ing
stop
> button in PythonWin?

When PythonWin is running, there should be a PythonWin icon in the tray
bar. Right click on that and select "Break into running code".

Cheers,
Brian





From tim-dated-1015966132.70491e at catseye.net  Tue Mar  5 15:48:51 2002
From: tim-dated-1015966132.70491e at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 14:48:51 -0600
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203050738280.30955-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203050738280.30955-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <86n0xmg2q4.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

<brueckd at tbye.com> writes:

> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Greg Ewing wrote:
> 
> > Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> > >
> > > Python isn't necessarily slow:
> >
> > That sounds like a great title for a Python
> > song: "It Ain't Necessarily Slow!"
> 
> Hmm... 'necessarily' is a bit cumbersome. The "ain't" makes me think of
> country songs from the U.S., so how about "Just cuz I slither, it don't
> mean I'm slow"?

Oh, are you from across the pond?  It was either Bronski Beat or the
Communards who did an interesting cover of Ain't Necessarily So in the
early '80s - I think both groups were Brits....  It's in more of a
Broadway musical style than country, though.

Anyhow, the chorus of the song, which is the part I was spoofing, goes

It ain't necessarily so.
It ain't necessarily so.
Things that you're liable
To read in the bible
Ain't necessarily so.


Tim



From michele at diee.unica.it  Mon Mar 25 14:40:50 2002
From: michele at diee.unica.it (Michele Marchesi)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:40:50 +0100
Subject: XP2002 - Call for Participation
Message-ID: <3C9F7D42.3080506@diee.unica.it>

----------------------------------------------------------------
Apologize if you receive this announcement more than once.
----------------------------------------------------------------
                       CALL for PARTICIPATION

                   XP2002 - http://www.xp2002.org/

          3rd Int.l Conference on XP and Agile Processes
                      in Software Engineering

     May 26-29, 2002 - in beautiful Alghero, Sardinia, Italy

The Third International Conference on XP and Agile Processes
in Software Engineering, XP2002, is a consolidated international
forum to learn, discuss and advance the state of the art of
the theories and the practices related to Extreme Programming
and other agile techniques for software development!

The Conference Schedule includes Workshops, Tutorials, Activity
Sessions, Panels, Presentations, to accommodate the different
needs of participants:
* 6 Workshops and 23 Tutorials on every aspect of XP and other
   agile methodologies, given by world leading researchers,
* 6 invited talks from undisputed authorities of software
   engineering and agile processes, including Dave Parnas and
   Kent Beck,
* panels and presentations of experiences and ideas
* studies from researchers and practitioners from all over
   the World.

XP2002 WORKSHOPS are open for enrollment:
- Bringing Structure to Experience With Agile Development
- XP & Database Administration  (afternoon)
- Testing in XP
- Distributed Agile Software Development
- Experience Exchange II
- Design & Refactoring

The participation to XP2002 is limited to 300 people for space
reasons...
                         register early.

The deadline for reduced fees is April, 1, 2002.

For more information and registration see: http://www.xp2002.org
or contact:
Prof. Michele Marchesi,
Program Chair,
XP2002
michele at diee.unica.it

----------------------------------------------------------------
Apologize if you receive this announcement more than once.
----------------------------------------------------------------



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Tue Mar  5 16:49:04 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:49:04 -0800
Subject: Problems importing anything using _socket
References: <e2e9e807.0203050335.65ca52f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a62ich.3vsgj57.1@kserver.org>

If this is of any help to you, here is the record of how I managed to
install Python 2.1 on a Linux server, initially having problems with the
socket library, and eventually ironing it out.

http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8972



-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/

"When introducing your puppy to an adult cat,
restrain the puppy, not the cat." -- Gwen Bailey,
_The Perfect Puppy: How to Raise a Well-behaved Dog_


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 09:49:53 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 09:49:53 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com> <3CA6ADEC.80859964@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a877mh$sjc$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3CA6ADEC.80859964 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> 
>> I'm teaching Python for [Perl] Programmers at OSCON this July.  I've
>> already decided to mention mxODBC, NumPy, and PIL, plus PythonPoint (aka
>> ReportLab) gets a mention on my title page.  I'd like this group to vote
>> on the most important extensions for me to add to this list.  Please vote
>> for no more than three.
>
>I take it PyXml and PyUnit no longer qualify as "extensions"?

You got it.

>(Not that the idea of unit testing would necessarily appeal
>to Perl programmers anyway.)

Let me make clear that one of my goals for this tutorial (despite my
occasional snarks here on c.l.py) is to have NO advocacy and NO war.
After all, people who show up for that class have paid good money to
learn Python (or at least their company's money), and for all that there
are significant differences between Python and Perl, the fundamental
goal for both languages is the same: programmer productivity.  I think
it's great that there are different approaches to that goal, even if
Python is a better approach.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  8 13:34:29 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:34:29 -0800
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
In-Reply-To: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>
References: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.
 com>
Message-ID: <16450184.1015583669@[192.168.1.100]>

On 3/8/02 10:26 AM -0800, Cromwell, Jeremy wrote:
> PEP 276 (Simple Iterator for ints) and PEP 284 (Integer for-loops), among
> others, are written from the perspective that the current integer for-loop
> syntax
>
>     for i in range(10):
>
> is a wart.  Is this true?

I think this is an inaccurate characterization of PEP 284 -- although it 
describes a unified syntax for all integer for-loops, the wart it's 
primarily addressed at is multi-parameter (not single-parameter) range.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/




From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar  4 20:55:20 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:20 -0500
Subject: [ANN] PEP 279 version 1.5
Message-ID: <a618il$hlq$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

PEP 279 -- Enhanced Generators has been updated:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0279.html

Additional comments are solicited before it is sent
to Guido for pronouncement.


Raymond Hettinger


Changes:
-- Added link to a pure python reference implementation and example code
-- indexed() proposal compared and contrasted to PEP 212
-- added pros and cons of built-ins vs. a separate module
-- discussion of restartability factored-out to separate section
-- generator comprehensions presented without restartable class wrapper
-- 'yield' to be an expression rather than statement
-- .throw syntax revised to exactly match 'raise'
-- try/finally prohibition in generators as another argument for .throw()
-- alternative names for 'throw' listed
-- referenced Oren Tirosh's work in the XLazy library
-- minor wording, spelling, and formatting changes through-out







From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 18:05:59 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:05:59 -0600
Subject: 16-bit grayscale images
In-Reply-To: <6c585112.0203011453.2fd2a13f@posting.google.com>
References: <6c585112.0203011453.2fd2a13f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15488.2391.822273.937850@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Jeff> With Python/Tkinter is there a way to read in, write out, and
    Jeff> display 16 bit grayscale images?

I suggest you check out PIL and VTK:

    http://www.pythonware.com/downloads/index.htm#pil

    http://public.kitware.com/VTK/

Completely different approaches, but I suspect there will be code in both
that does what you want.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 22:14:49 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 19:14:49 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]> <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list@python.org> <ffqk8.25854$N7.5409309@ruti.visi.com> <a6tdvl$19mg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <2b57f654.0203151914.63c38490@posting.google.com>

> Rich, I thought Grant identified your real problem (calling select
> wrong) in his first followup.  I added some comments relevant to
> the above issues in other followups.  Did you miss all that stuff?
>

That was indeed my "real problem," but now I want to make sure I know
how to do this read() thing correctly.  Please see my reply to your
other comments, thanks.


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar  5 14:48:46 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 11:48:46 -0800
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for        numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org> <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <mailman.1015092245.20363.python-list@python.org> <slrna87sk7.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <slrna87vg9.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <7xbse3j3u4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrna8a5v6.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <7xwuwqn6ch.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu) writes:
> 2. Is there a configure option to guarantee -lieee?
> 
>    Changing pyconfig.h.in to #define HAVE_LIBIEEE 1 does not make -lieee
>    appear in the Makefile, even though it get into pyconfig.h.

The configure script should probably be changed to test for the presence
of libieee and use it if available.

> 4. Is there an easier way to debug such problems?
> 
>    Maybe a C test program should be included in the configure script or in
>    the Tools directory so that people can easily report various conditions?
>    Such environmental testing is essential if Python is defining its own
>    numerical behavior indenpendent of IEEE or C. (but see below)

Does anybody care about running Python on non-ieee platforms these
days?  If not, it should try to use ieee arithmetic all the time.  The
exception might be some embedded platforms with software floating
point, but for those systems it should be acceptable to leave the
overflow/underflow behavior up to the floating point emulation system
if there even is one.

> 5. How is 1e200**2 handled?
> 
>    Since both 1e-200**2 and 1e200**2 produce the same errno all the time,
>    but Python still raises OverflowError for 1e200**2 when linked with
>    -lieee, there must be a separate mechanism at work.  What is that and how
>    can I override it?  I know this is by design, but I think the design is
>    dumb (to put it politely). 

What do you want it to do?


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Mar  6 13:09:00 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 18:09:00 GMT
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk> <3C84E363.6020106@olen.to> <3C84EBED.8090607@bath.ac.uk> <3C8651E9.493CDA64@olen.to>
Message-ID: <a65lvs$103o$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Joonas Paalasmaa <joonas at olen.to>:
| Simon Willison wrote:
|> Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
|>> Simon Willison wrote:
|>>| I've written a simple Python script to scan a bunch of URLs for "live"
|>>| sites and grab the title of those pages. It works by using popen() to
|>>| call lynx and analyse the HTTP response:
|>>|
|>>| -----------------------------------------------------------------
|>>|
|>>| command = "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"
|>>
|>>
|>> Use:
|>>
|>> command=["/opt/bin/lynx","-mime_header","http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"]
|>>
|>> for better security.
|> 
|> I'm a Python newbie :) How does that makes things more secure?
|
| If you pass a string to os.popen as the first argument, the process is
| envoiked
| by by running the argument in shell. That can cause problems if the
| string is composed from non-safe variables. Imagine situation where
| variable 'user' is "; rm -fR ~/; echo ". That causes command
| "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~; rm -fR ~/; echo /"
| to be run in shell.
| But if a list is passed to os.popen, os.popen will run a program named
| in the first item of
| the list with the rest of the list as arguments.

TypeError: popen() argument 1 must be string, not list

You meant os.popen2(), not os.popen().

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From abou at cam.org  Sat Mar 30 16:00:23 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:00:23 -0500
Subject: getting infos from a website
References: <3CA61187.C0548FD5@cam.org> <3CA614B8.2C5C25E4@cam.org>
Message-ID: <3CA62767.8D9D1042@cam.org>


Zutroi Zatatakowski wrote:
> 
> By the way, I can c.write() without any problem into the file though...
> That's really puzzling me, I can write but cannot read. I know it's a
> newbie problem but eh, so I am. :)

Ok, it was pretty stupid, I was just not putting 'print' in front of it. 
But another thing... Now that I can capture a website html and output it
into a file, I have to remove all html tags (I guess replacing '<>' by '
') or, but I don't know if it's possible, instead of capturing the HTML
source of the page, could I retrieve only the text, like basic ASCII
copy/paste?   

-- 
Zutroi Zatatakowski
Commando PACU
http://pacu.cjb.net



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 19:49:13 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:49:13 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d8Op8.504207$pN4.35818114@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list at python.org...
> [Ralph Corderoy, to Guido]
> > What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
> > elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of
Boolean
> > above.
>
> Actually, he didn't.

Actually he did.  The 'above' quote Ralph is referring to is

    "IMO, bool(x) is the right way to "normalize" any value into a
    truth value."

Note the second to last word: 'truth', not 'Boolean'.  The point is
that if Guido spontaneously phrased it this way, the suggestion to go
with that phrasing is not completely crazy.

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 21 01:03:51 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 07:03:51 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <83sn6udbxu.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <m3663qwj7c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Kragen Sitaker <kragen at pobox.com> writes:

> martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:
> > That is certainly possible; freeze would be the obvious choice for
> > such a mechanism (IMO). Alas, distutils is unmaintained, so don't wait
> > for anybody else to implement it for you.
> 
> That's rather shocking.  How did distutils get to be unmaintained?

Mainly by the initial authors not having enough time to do the
full-time job that distutils maintenance means. They didn't run away,
nor did they stop working on it when they find time. It just means
that if you report a bug or request a feature, that somebody will look
at your report in this millenium.

Regards,
Martin



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Mar 21 11:21:37 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:21:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
In-Reply-To: <852630CB444A0E88.1C47E73805633E2D.6D8C67A72D42A034@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On 21 Mar 2002, Cameron Laird wrote:

> So, for example, I've heard that Python isn't as serious
> as Java because it's not possible to hire "Zope-certified
> Python Engineers".  Sun does that for Java, Zope doesn't
> for Python, therefore Python isn't as trustworthy as
> Java.

In the light of earlier discussion on this thread, here's my suggestion:

Rather than just giving another test, let someone pull out a significant
non-trivial task from the Python "to-do" list for each applicant for
certification. After review of satisfactory completeion of 3 tasks in
different categories, you get certified.  Review might include having
to write up something on why you did it that way, or some other
explaination -- basically an essay question. Some organization
( Zope? PSA? Python.org ? ) will have to be responsible for final review
and approval, but largely it will be through "community review" -- i.e.
submitting to SourceForge, posting to mailing-list/newsgroup for
discussion, etc. -- although perhaps a little more formalized, like
the PEP procedure. ( Or maybe this begs for a Slashdot like system to
distribute the review, grading and selection of projects. )


-- Steve





From kedai at kedai.com.my  Tue Mar 26 23:14:23 2002
From: kedai at kedai.com.my (kedai)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 20:14:23 -0800
Subject: turning a python script to windows service
References: <c5e68843.0203252143.19ccdd06@posting.google.com> <3CA014BC.6090204@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <c5e68843.0203262014.18f66430@posting.google.com>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3CA014BC.6090204 at skippinet.com.au>...

> 
> When run as a service, the print statements go nowhere useful - they run 
> in the background.  Try looking up info in win32traceutil - this will 
> allow you to see your print statement when running as a service.

thanks for the pointer, and the book too.
i see that print does show up in the traceutil.  so  it works as a
service.

is there anything special that i need to do if i wanted to do more
stuff; for example, i tried copying files but nothing was copied.

snippet:
os.system('copy file filedst') #instead of print statement

a simple, doing something service example would be good :)
or pointers to docs i should read before asking again

thanks



> 
> Mark.


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 21 02:49:38 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:49:38 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:slrna9im44.6ii.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no...
> What I said was 'an "uninstall" command', which has nothing to do with
> building packages or installers for other systems (such as RPM). I'm
> talking about being able to do
>
>   python setup.py install
>
> and then later
>
>   python setup.py uninstall
>
> Assuming that the same script was used for installation, it seems that
> Thomas's command (which he refers to as a hack ;) works quite
> nicely... But I guess it might not be robust enough.

I've thought a little bit more about this. IMO PEP 262 (database of
installed packages) should be implemented, so that the database
is updated by distutil's install command - then we can write a
robust uninstall.

Thomas




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar  3 20:01:50 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:01:50 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <1cef615e.0203021254.6bf3658@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C82C77E.6B9FA688@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

"Hernan M. Foffani" wrote:
> 
> indici(x) will replace the odd xrange(len(x)) idiom and address the problem
> of open intervals where the length of the set is not known in advance.

I like this a lot!

But... where the **** did the word "indici" come from?
Could we please call it either "indexes" or "indices"?
According to spell, those are both English words,
whereas "indici" is not.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From magnus at thinkware.se  Wed Mar 20 07:59:37 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:59:37 +0100
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com> <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3C984F44.1090001@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C9887B9.6090603@thinkware.se>

Hi, as a Java coder you might want to look
into Jython and combine your skills. That
would for instance enable you to quickly
prototype Java programs in Python.


Ahmed Moustafa wrote:

> May I ask you what the scal for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
> related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
> Python?



Not at all.


But I think both MySQL and Python scales well.
MySQL has some shortcomings, and since the
purchase cost is so low :) it's a good
choise for systems with a small budget. But
don't dismiss is as a weak database in larger
settings. In places where you have many more
reads than transactions, MySQL might well be
the fastest choise.


Python code doesn't compile to native machine
code, only to byte code, so in some situations
it can't compete with C. But you should be aware
that
  - Python integrates well with C, and possible
    bottle necks can be coded in C and used as
    extension modules. Such a solutin might well
    be much faster than a pure Java solution.
  - In most web apps it's often other factors such
    as network and databases that are the bottle necks.
  - Since the development time will be shorter, you
    will have more money left for hardware.


 From a design point of view Python has the constructs
that you need to build big applications. Classes,
namespaces, modules and packages etc.


Since Python code is typically much shorter (3-10 times)
than C, C++ or Java, and more easy to read, it's a good
language for high demands. I don't know what size you are
thinking of.  My current app is maybe 5 000 lines of code
if you remove comments and empty lines. It's about 140
classes. I would guess that it would have been at least
15 000 lines of Java. I don't worry a bit about this getting
out of hand.


There are many big web apps written in Python.
- Zope is an web application server. See www.zope.com for
   some customer references.
- ReportLab (www.reportlab.com) has large installations.
   Their main piece of code is open source, but for those
   who don't trust freeware they have a commercial XML
   solution that costs from $10 000. Demos on the site.
- Google runs a lot of Python code.


Among other Python programs we can mention the use for
animations in the latest Star Wars film, and here in
Scandinavia a lot of manipulations of metereological
data and images are done with Python. See
http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/PythonUsers
for some more examples of Python use.


/Magnus



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 22:18:25 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 03:18:25 GMT
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net>, Artur Skura wrote:

>Duncan Booth wrote:
>> Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in 
>> news:slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net:
>>> Is there an idiom in Python as to sorting dictionary by value,
>>> not keys? I came up with some solutions which are so inefficient
>>> that I'm sure there must be a simple way.
>> How do you know they are inefficient? Have you profiled your application 
>> and found this to be a bottleneck?

>No, and it seems the problem is not with sorting.
>I wanted to write a compact word counting script (well, in shell
>it can be done in a 5 lines or so), just  for fun.


 Just about a week ago I posted a word frequency counting 
 script which counted "words," filtered out some common 
 contractions and "non-words" and tracked "known words" (as 
 per entries from /usr/share/dict/words) and then generated
 listing by highest frequency first.  I also posted a modified
 version that would shove its results into a PostgreSQL database
 table (a couple of days later, it only took four lines).

 I could mail it to you if you like, but I'd be surprised if
 it's not still floating around.

 (BTW: for performance, it handles almost 1800 man pages, 
 averaging 7Kb each, in less than 2 minutes on my mid-range 
 (dual 650Mhz Pentium) desktop box)).

 The whole thing in only about 85 lines long and the core
 function is less than ten.  As so many people have suggested
 in this thread, it simply uses a dictionary (awk calls them
 associative arrays, perl calls them "hashes").

 The core loop is something like:

	freq = {}
 	for line in file:
		for word in line.split():
			if word in freq:	freq[word] += 1
			else:				freq[word] = 1

 (assuming Python2.2 for file interation and dictionary membership
 support using "in."  I *really* like those 2.2 features!  They make
 my psuedo-code so executable!)



From garyr at fidalgo.net  Sun Mar 31 12:02:57 2002
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Garyr)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:02:57 -0800
Subject: Thread blocking problem
Message-ID: <uaegdmkatlbf18@corp.supernews.com>

I have a program consisting primarily of a simple Tinker GUI and in separate
thread some code that invokes a function in a C++ extension module that
blocks on WaitForSingleObject most of the time. The Python code is a
producer and the C++ code the consumer, a sound card driver.

Shouldn't the GUI be responsive when the code in the thread is blocked?

In this program it appears that processing outside of the thread occurs only
when the code in the thread executes briefly. That is, whenever the sound
card accepts another chunk of data. If I comment the function call that
passes
the data to the sound card and stick in a delay processing appears to be
normal.

The sound card driver (which I did not write) worked very well in the C++
program that I got if from

Does anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on here?














From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Thu Mar 28 16:51:58 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:51:58 +0200
Subject: Weave...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1017336044.20976.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1017336044.20976.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203282350070.19595-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On 28 Mar 2002, Vincent A. Primavera wrote:

> Hello,
> 	Does anyone know where I can find Weave which used to be located at the
> address below(or any good alternatives...)?
> 
> 	Thank you,
> 
> 	Vincent A. Primavera
> 
> http://www.scipy.org/site_content/weave
> 

Currently SciPy site seems to have Zope problems but try later again.

Regards,
	Pearu



From tl_news at nexgo.de  Fri Mar  1 15:29:05 2002
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:29:05 +0100
Subject: Ping
References: <a5od3d$9gc$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <fsov7uc88olqhd16qsc6mr5mn9pim173bm@4ax.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:21:13 +0100, "Riss Nicolas"
<alien275 at libertysurf.fr> wrote:

>Bonjour,
>on ma dit que je pouvais ?crire en francais alors j'?crit en francais. Je
>voudrais pouvoir v?rifier toutes les 5 min que une machine ping une autre
>machine et si elle ne ping pas qu'elle execute un script. Comment faut il
>faire avec python pour pinger une machine et v?rifier qu'elle r?pond??
>
>Merci de votre aide.
>

Hi Riss!

The best solution IMHO is to use the external "ping" provided by the
underlying operating system and to catch and parse its output. So you
don't have the possible suid and/or implementation problems.

If you really want to use a pure "Python-Ping" you have to be familiar
with (low-level) socket/network-programming. Have a look at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-November/070944.html
(the last two links will provide you with two working "Python-Pings")

Best regards

Tino



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar  2 15:05:38 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:05:38 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015025883.4457.python-list@python.org> <a5plko$f7n$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5ptsb$99s16$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <a5r495$5bo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <a5rbl1$9i37i$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Carel Fellinger"
> Emile van Sebille
> > "Carel Fellinger"
> >> You specify that the
> >> integer to iterate over should be possitive, why not allow for
> >> negative values and do the sensible thing, like:
> >>
> >>    >>> [i for i in -3]
> >>    [-1, -2, -3]
>
> > If you change the sensible thing to mean:
>
> >   [-3, -2, -1]
>
> > I'd like it better.  ;-)
>
> I noted the smiley, but just in case someone might think you have a
> point: what would be the benefit of that?

Syntactic consistency with slice notation:
    5 :: [:5] as-3 :: [-3:]

or maybe it should be:   ;-)
    5 :: [:5] like -3 :: [:-3]

>  It just let you loop over a
> sequence in the standard order, but now with negative indici.  And the
> range call to get this isn't that hard either: range(-3,0).
>
> My proposal makes iterating in *reverse* order simple.

On anything with a len.

> The tutorial could introduce it like:
>
>    In python integers are objects too. And objects know how to do
>    things, e.g. integer objects know how to add and just recently
>    they learned how to count.  Positive integers count from zero
>    upto but not including the number itself, whereas negative
>    integers count from -1 downto and including the number itself.

My my... I think you've converted... ;-)

>
>    A common place where this feature of integers is used is in for
>    loops and list comprehension. e.g.
>
>       >>> s = "silly walk".split()
>       >>> print " ".join([s[i] for i in len(s)])
>       silly walk
>       >>> print " ".join([s[i] for i in -len(s)])
>       walk silly
>
>    Although the first print statement is generally written as:
>
>       >>> print " ".join([x for x in s])

Couldn't we overload the '-' to reverse by itself?  ;-)
        >>> print " ".join([x for x in -s])


My point, repeated a few times here <wink>, is that while I have no
objections to (or say in) adding features in ways that allow for
pratical use, I'd prefer that there be syntactic consistency so that
each new feature doesn't add to the learning curve.  Arguments in favor
of producing 0,1,2 for 'for i in 3' have included that it's the same as
range(3), and that it maches slice notation, ala range(10)[:3].  For
negative numbers, it seems a natural extension for me to think in terms
of range(-3,0) and range(-10,0)[-3:].  Your reversing the sequence just
doesn't feel right.  ;-)  But, like >>, I'd get used to using it if it
were there.

Further, because there will always be different opinions of consistency,
a decision will ultimately be made in favor of one of the opposing
opinions.  The decision for (for i in 6), requires an iter to be added
to ints.  From a practical perspective, I don't see the harm in adding
it just because one group of people don't like iterating over integers.
We've simply provided an answer to 'What does it mean to iterate over an
integer?'

The three Pythonic opinions on this seem to be 'why not', 'an int's not
a collection and can't be iterated over', 'why bother', and 'find a
better way'.  I fall somewhere between the first and last of these.  I
illustrated with my sample dexing class the functionality I'd like to
see, although I won't be surprised to never see that in python.  For
those who don't like iter(int), don't use it, or at least, .  ;-) use it
as often as you use '>>'.

Bonus-points-for-each-point-found-here-ly y'rs,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:19:22 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:19:22 -0500
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org> <kuadsx2958.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3@engcorp.com> <ku663l2598.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <3C9E2BA1.E500BE4A@engcorp.com> <ku1ye9d1zf.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <3C9FBE8A.1BB3A0AF@engcorp.com>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> 
> In article <3C9E2BA1.E500BE4A at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen
> <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> | I don't get that behaviour.  On my machine, with Python 2.2, for
> | all intents and purposes the memory allocated stays constant.
> | Did I overlook something?
> 
> hard to say. how did you measure it?

[w/red face] With Windows.... I'll think twice about checking
something like this on that p3e of s2t operating system next time...
Thanks Erno.

-Peter


From wurmy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 18:01:57 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:01:57 GMT
Subject: augmented arithmetic operations
References: <Zv8j8.6678$26.622125@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D37C7.A06D889D@earthlink.net>

Mike Carifio wrote:
> 
> According to the language ref section "Emulating numeric types"
> (http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/numeric-types.html),
> I can use special name methods to overload operations. When creating
> "augmented operations"  like __iadd__ (for "+=") is it considered
> "bad form" to create a intermediate value and then assign parts of
> self to the intermediate value? Or is this just an implementation detail?
> 
> For example, suppose I introduced Point as a kind of number:
> 
> class Point:
>     def Point(self, x, y):
>         self.x = x; self.y = y
>     def __add__(self, rhs):
>         return Point(self.x + rhs.x, self.y + rhs.y)
>     def __iadd__(self, rhs):
>         intermediate = self + rhs  # bad form?
>         self.x = intermediate.x; self.y = intermediate.y
> 
> p11 = Point(1,1)
> p22 = Point(2,2)
> p33 = p11 + p22  # p11.__add__(p22)
> p33 += p11  # p33.__iadd__(p1) makes p33 (4,4)
> 
> I'd like to reuse __add__ without having to introduce an intermediate
> object...

This code has a few problems...
1. The constructor's name is __init__, not the name of the class.
2. Indeed, you don't need the intermediate object, since += is
for changing an object in place. So you can do

  self.x = self.x + rhs.x
  self.y = self.y + rhs.y

3. But don't forget

  return self

or the += operator won't work! After " p33 += p11 ", p33 will
be None.

Here's what I would make of the code:

>>> class Point:
	def __init__(self, x, y):
		self.x, self.y = x, y
	def __add__(self, rhs):
		return Point(self.x + rhs.x, self.y + rhs.y)
	def __iadd__(self, rhs):
		self.x = self.x + rhs.x
		self.y = self.y + rhs.y
		return self
	
>>> p11 = Point(1,1)
>>> p22 = Point(2,2)
>>> p33 = p11 + p22
>>> p33.__dict__
{'y': 3, 'x': 3}
>>> p33 += p11
>>> p33.__dict__
{'y': 4, 'x': 4}

HTH,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From john at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 16:49:56 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:49:56 GMT
Subject: newbie question on lists, getting an error on basic addition
References: <uggeauc292padb9gk6ghcmghv82g888i3l@4ax.com> <sHHp8.143522$ZR2.60617@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <541fau8nne8hgoquiqbq926ij3p3pa9bep@4ax.com>

Ah, ok, thanks, it works fine now

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:28:56 GMT, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com>
wrote:

>John Warney
>> >>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>> >>> counter = 0
>> >>> answer = 0
>> >>> alist
>[snip]
>> >>> while counter < 6:
>> ... answer = answer + alist[counter]
>> ... counter = counter + 1
>> ...
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<interactive input>", line 2, in ?
>> IndexError: list index out of range
>> >>> answer
>> 10
>>
>> why am i getting this error when it works???
>> Rob
>
>You get the error because you're trying to loop six times through a list
>of four elements.  What you've displayed is the accumulated total while
>the loop worked.



From gargravarr at whoever.com  Wed Mar 20 16:04:13 2002
From: gargravarr at whoever.com (gargravarr at whoever.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:04:13 GMT
Subject: Unicode problem
References: <3c98f206.24909027@news.tiscali.no> <OG6m8.26452$n4.5185028@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3c98f9a9.26864108@news.tiscali.no>

Thanks for the help! It worked!

Tom

>if you don't tell Python what 8-bit encoding you want
>to use for a Unicode string, Python will assume ASCII.
>
>to convert to an 8-bit string with a known encoding,
>use the encode method:
>
>    s = i.firstChild.data.encode("iso-8859-1")
>
>you should probably escape < > & too; consider using
>something like:
>
>    from cgi import escape
>
>    def encode(s):
>        if not s: return ""
>        return escape(s.encode("iso-8859-1"))
>
>    body.write('<h2>%s</h2>\n' % encode(i.firstChild.data))
>
></F>
>
><!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
>http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm



From paul at pfdubois.com  Sat Mar  2 10:53:37 2002
From: paul at pfdubois.com (Paul F Dubois)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:53:37 -0800
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELMOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c202$7996be90$1001a8c0@NICKLEBY>

I also see the underflow problem on my Linux box 2.4.2-2. This is
certainly untenable. However, I am able to catch OverflowError in both
cases. I had a user complain about this just yesterday, so I think it is
a new behavior in Python 2.2 which I was just rolling out. A small
Fortran test problem did not exhibit the underflow bug, and caught the
overflow bug at COMPILE TIME (!).

There are two states for the IEEE underflow: one in which the hardware
sets it to zero, and the other in which the hardware signals the OS and
you can tell the OS to set it to zero. There is no standard for the
interface to this facility that I am aware of. (Usually I have had to
figure out how to make sure the underflow was handled in hardware
because the sheer cost of letting it turn into a system call was
prohibitive.) I speculate that on machines where the OS call is the
default that Python 2.2 is catching the signal when it should let it go
by.

I have not looked at this lately so something may have changed. 

You can use the kinds package that comes with Numeric to test 
for maximum and minimum exponents. kinds.default_float_kind.MAX_10_EXP
(equal to 308 on my Linux box, for example) tells you how big an
exponent a floating point number can have. MIN_10_EXP (-307 for me) is
also there.

Work around on your convergence test: instead of testing x**2 you might
test log10(x) vs. a constant or some expression involving
kinds.default_float_kind.MIN_10_EXP.

-----Original Message-----
From: numpy-discussion-admin at lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:numpy-discussion-admin at lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Tim
Peters
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:43 PM
To: Huaiyu Zhu; numpy-discussion at lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for
numerical computation?


[Huaiyu Zhu]
> There appears to be a serious bug in Python 2.2 that severely limits 
> its usefulness for numerical computation:
>
> # Python 1.5.2 - 2.1
>
> >>> 1e200**2
> inf

A platform-dependent accident, there.

> >>> 1e-200**2
> 0.0
>
> # Python 2.2
>
> >>> 1e-200**2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

That one is surprising and definitely not intended:  it suggests your
platform libm is setting errno to ERANGE for pow(1e-200, 2.0), or that
your platform C headers define INFINITY but incorrectly, or that your
platform C headers define HUGE_VAL but incorrectly, or that your
platform C compiler generates bad code, or optimizes incorrectly, for
negating and/or comparing against its definition of HUGE_VAL or
INFINITY.  Python intends silent underflow to 0 in this case, and I
haven't heard of underflows raising OverflowError before.  Please file a
bug report with full details about which operating system, Python
version, compiler and C libraries you're using (then it's going to take
a wizard with access to all that stuff to trace into it and determine
the true cause).

> >>> 1e200**2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

That one is intended; see

http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=496104

for discussion.

> This produces the following serious effects: after hours of numerical 
> computation, just as the error is converging to zero, the whole thing 
> suddenly unravels.

It depends on how you write your code, of course.

> Note that try/except is completely useless for this purpose.

Ditto.  If your platform C lets you get away with it, you may still be
able to get an infinity out of 1e200 * 1e200.

> I hope this is unintended behavior

Half intended, half both unintended and never before reported.

> and that there is an easy fix.

Sorry, "no" to either.


_______________________________________________
Numpy-discussion mailing list Numpy-discussion at lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/numpy-discussion




From cja at dds.nl  Tue Mar 26 11:40:55 2002
From: cja at dds.nl (Christopher Abraham)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:40:55 -0500
Subject: Python/Zope and Cold Fusion Interoperability Strategies?
Message-ID: <cja-2603021140550001@192.168.1.42>

Pythons:

I have a 2:00 meeting on Cold Fusion integration with Zope/Python. (This
is not a time-sensitive email -- but the meeting is making me think hard
since this is a problem I will have to solve again and again)

I think they have some some Cold Fusion/DB-backed sites and so forth (not
ours) that they would like to synch/syndicate/and represent.

Are there proprietary RSS/RDF/SOAP/XML/B2B/Service/Buzzword strategies
that Allaire/Macromedia/CF push?  Are there Python Package/Module/Method
which can/could/would address these kinds of interoperability questions?

Since the Foundation/.ORG world has embraced CF (as have many worlds --
silly gits!), we will see this again and again -- and I would like your
help in maybe showing me the solutions that I have not considered.

I would really appreciate someone's help when you have a chance -- the
meeting is not a deadline, only an impetus.

Also, I am working on finding a place in the area for the next ZPug
meeting -- but I have my hands full.  I will keep on looking, but if you
have any ideas for places, please post them to the list and we can
brainstorm together.

The Site is http://www.zpug.org and the mailing list for the DC ZPug is
http://lists.zpug.org/mailman/listinfo/dc-gen

Cheers & Thanks in Advance,

Chris


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar 20 06:45:09 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 03:45:09 -0800
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Andy Gimblett <gimbo at ftech.net> writes:
> Have a look at this example (from
> http://www.zope.org/Members/peterbe/DTML2ZPT):
> 
> <ul tal:define="sequence python:container.mydb.selectbyname(name='peter')">
>   <li tal:repeat="item sequence">
>     <span tal:replace="item/surname">surname</span>
>   </li>
> </ul>
> 
> Now, that's perfectly valid HTML, most WYSYWIG editors will basically
> ignore the tal: attributes and render a single-element list, but the
> ZPT machinery in Zope will pick that up and render a multi-element
> list in a manner which I think it pretty obvious from looking at the
> source.
> 
> In short, I think it's super-neato.  :-)

Geez, I find all this pseudo-HTML horrendous.  Why not just embed
normal looking code in <?  ?> tags the way PHP does it?  Do WYSIWYG
editors have a problem with that?  If worse comes to worse, embed
the Python code with the kinds of tags used for Javascript.  The
WYSIWYG editors should be used to Javascript by now.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Mar 16 11:50:18 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:50:18 GMT
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276@newsc.telia.net>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> I find ServerProxy to be a more logical name, but the fact that I
> can't find it mentioned in the docs makes me a bit wary of using
> it... (On the other hand, ServerProxy is what's documented in the
> docstring. What is the history behind this duality -- and what is the
> motivation for the conflicting current usage?

the original code used Server -- after all, the object is
representing a remote server.

the (rather lame) ServerProxy alias was added later, after
enough people had flamed me over the original naming...

> who thinks that SimpleXMLRPCServer should be called
> xmlrpclib.Server, with xmlrpclib.ServerProxy being used as the
> server proxy...

most XML-RPC users don't use/need server functionality,
and shouldn't have to pay for something they don't use...

</F>




From psage at ncaustin.com  Fri Mar 29 17:17:39 2002
From: psage at ncaustin.com (Paul Sage)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:17:39 -0600
Subject: Ugly little issue with Tkinter - Pmw.Counter - datatype
Message-ID: <03F53405C6ED434A986221919785A6A7106BF3@nca-postal.ncaustin.com>

self._body = Pmw.Counter(parent,
  labelpos = 'w',
  label_text = 'Body:',
  entryfield_value = currentStatBody,
  datatype = lambda s=self, p=thePlayer: s.custom_counter_body(p),
  entryfield_validate = {'validator' : 'integer', 'min' : statMin, 'max'
: statMax})

Basically, I need to pass an object to the function being referenced,
but the lambda solution won't work.  "datatype", in this instance, is
expecting a function name.  The problem is similar to one I had earlier
this week, only this time, datatype assigns implicit arguments to the
function name, and I don't think that is going to fly with lambda.  Any
ideas for how I can reference this object without making it global?

The function header currently looks like this:

def custom_counter_body(self, text, factor, increment):

I need it to look like this:

Def custom_counter_body(self, text, factor, increment, thePlayer)



From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Wed Mar 13 17:11:50 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:11:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8vjl5.qpq.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:13 -0600, Scott Kurland <skurland at juggler.net> wrote:
>Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?

Others have pointed out what went wrong.  Here's a technique that you could
use to find it out yourself, at least for simple programs like this: You put
print statements in the program to see if your expectations are satisfied.

Here's your program, slightly modified, with a few 'print' statements
sprinkled here and there:

#Searching for perfect numbers
import operator
howhigh = input ("How high should I check?")
for number in range(1, howhigh):
    factorsum = 0
    print number, ':',
    for factor in range(1, number/2):
        if number % factor == 0:
            factorsum += factor
            print factor,
    if number == factorsum:
        print ' ** ', number
    else:
        print ' -- ', factorsum

The result is:

How high should I check?30
1 :  --  0
...
5 : 1  --  1
6 : 1 2  --  3
7 : 1  --  1
...
23 : 1  --  1
24 : 1 2 3 4 6 8  **  24
25 : 1 5  --  6
26 : 1 2  --  3
27 : 1 3 9  --  13
28 : 1 2 4 7  --  14
29 : 1  --  1

It got a wrong one, 24, while missing the right ones, 6 and 28.  Examining
the factors it found, you can see that the last factor, number/2, is
missing.  Now you can open a Python interpreter and test:

>>> range(1,6/2)
[1, 2]
>>> range(1,6/2+1)
[1, 2, 3]

This is something you did not expect, so you could have asked why this is
so, instead of what went wrong in the original program.  

In any case, modifying the relevant line above to

    for factor in range(1, number/2+1):

produces the expected result:

How high should I check?30
1 :  --  0
2 : 1  --  1
3 : 1  --  1
4 : 1 2  --  3
5 : 1  --  1
6 : 1 2 3  **  6
7 : 1  --  1
8 : 1 2 4  --  7
9 : 1 3  --  4
10 : 1 2 5  --  8
11 : 1  --  1
12 : 1 2 3 4 6  --  16
13 : 1  --  1
14 : 1 2 7  --  10
15 : 1 3 5  --  9
16 : 1 2 4 8  --  15
17 : 1  --  1
18 : 1 2 3 6 9  --  21
19 : 1  --  1
20 : 1 2 4 5 10  --  22
21 : 1 3 7  --  11
22 : 1 2 11  --  14
23 : 1  --  1
24 : 1 2 3 4 6 8 12  --  36
25 : 1 5  --  6
26 : 1 2 13  --  16
27 : 1 3 9  --  13
28 : 1 2 4 7 14  **  28
29 : 1  --  1

Huaiyu


From metaliu at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 14:16:55 2002
From: metaliu at yahoo.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:16:55 -0800
Subject: streaming images
Message-ID: <a65pv7$jiv$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

Here's the scenario:

I'm receiving images through the network from a server.  I use python and
PIL to receive the image.  I need to display the images in real time as they
come (meaning I cant save a bunch of them and create an animated GIF or
something like that).  If I do an image.show() on each image I receive, a
seperate window will pop up for each image and the desktop gets cluttered.
Any ideas on how to do this?  Is there a way for me to UPDATE the window
with a new image so that only that window stays open?  Do I need something
else besides PIL to do this or will PIL be adaquate?

Thanks,
Bill




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 02:41:18 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:41:18 -0500
Subject: string copying
In-Reply-To: <a83jre$4d5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEBFOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bengt Richter, on consuming vast quantities of memory quickly]
> s = 'x'*2**30 would be a quick gig too. But it made me think
> maybe one could write a sort of memory test (to exercise the
> available python space, anyway).  Does python run out of memory
> gracefully?

Very.  You should get a clean MemoryError exception if you try.

>>> 'x' * 2**30
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
MemoryError
>>>

There are two things it's not graceful about, due to things beyond its
control:

1. Some OSes "overcommit", i.e. that malloc(n) returns non-NULL
   does *not* mean you can actually write to the returned memory
   addresses.  Python doesn't expect random segfaults upon writing
   to successfully malloc'ed memory.

2. Some OSes go insane if you push them up to, but not over, the
   limit of available memory.  This isn't overcommitment, it's that
   the OS can't actually manage to swap out pieces of itself and
   keep running.  Win9X is extremely prone to this, and system
   crashes are a likely result.  There's nothing Python can do
   about that either.

> I'm afraid to try it (have NT4, 320MB, and too many things running a
> lot).

NT should be fine; Win2K even better.

> Anyway, one could generate binary patterns and chr() the 8-bit
> pieces and join them into say megabyte chunks, and then compare
> sequentially with a the regenerated sequence. ...

A better argument for C coding I've never heard <wink>.




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Mar 15 17:25:38 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 17:25:38 -0500
Subject: socket
References: <BShk8.20888$Vx1.1808505@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <CVnk8.25667$N7.5385001@ruti.visi.com> <trqk8.21666$Vx1.1878870@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1016218106.2021.python-list@python.org> <Cgsk8.17912$P4.1544592@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <u8z8tzcwt.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Billy Ng" <evebill8 at hotmail.com> writes:

>         Second, again, I want to understand more about how the SMTP protocol
> works for my TCP/IP class project.

And from a pure learning perspective, that's a perfectly fine idea,
one I strongly suggest to anyone trying to understand how the Internet
works under the covers.

In terms of the servers not especially behaving as you may be finding
documented in your book (or the relevant RFCs), I think what you'll
find is that most have simply removed handling of commands that turned
out to be abused by spammers.  Originally, both VRFY and EXPN did in
fact do what they were written to do in most servers (I used to use it
all the time via telnet to manually try to check an e-mail address).
But as the net grew, they quickly became abused to try to build up
and/or verify distribution lists for spam, so the implementations
tended to either refuse the commands or just always acknowledge them
regardless of content.

Also to be fair, in many cases originally VRFY would still not be 100%
accurate, since if a mail server was built to relay mail elsewhere,
then by definition it would VRFY any address that was properly formed
(but would be relayed off that machine) as being good - even if it
would eventually bounce once a message to that address was really
transmitted.  In that case the VRFY was just telling you the address
was good to the machine you were talking to, but unless you were
certain that machine was responsible for final delivery of the mail,
it might not guarantee delivery.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From wayne at mishre.com  Fri Mar  1 13:05:48 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:05:48 -0800
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FC2FC.4040304@mishre.com>

Ron Stephens wrote:
> I am thinking of buying a "home" license of Black Adder, to use for
> making GUI's for Python programs to be used on Linux+KDE and also
> perhaps for the new Sharp Zaurus. Does anyone have any experience with
> Black Adder that they can share? One of my main reasons for wanting
> Black Adder is to use the GUI builder, so I am particualrly interested
> in opinions about that aspect of Black Adder, but I am also interested
> in other aspects as well.

I really like the GUI builder of BA, unfortunately I think it could use 
more work.  Granted it is __still__ in beta, but it's been in beta for 
quite a while without an update.  When I do GUI development I typically 
do the first part in BA, then manually add in the GUI pieces that BA 
doesn't support directly yet (like menus).

The only thing I don't like about the GUI builder is that it doesn't 
support a lot of widgets yet.  The last I heard they were waiting for Qt3.

> One question I have concerns licensing. If I buy the "home" version,
> could I still share my programs as GPL'ed open source, or would that
> require me to buy the "professional" license, which is much more
> expensive? In other words, my programs would never be used in any
> commercial way but I might want to post them as open source, free 
> software.

As I understand it, the only restriction on redistribution is if you are 
distributing commercial apps.  Then you need the business edition to 
redistribute Qt and the other modules.  It might be good to get the 
scoop directly from them on this since I got the business edition and 
haven't had to worry about it.

> I know Black Adder is still in beta, but is it stable enoough to use
> already? I suppose I should ask how it compares to PythonWare amd
> WingIDE, but I kind of favor the PyQt toolkit becuase it will
> hopefully work well on the Sharp Zaurus as well as the KDE desktopI haven't had too many problems with BA's stability; typically I use BA 
for the GUI design and syntax highlighting then compile and test in a 
shell.  I've had some lockups when using the run from within BA in the 
past, not all the time but I was never able to figure out what would 
cause it so I just skipped it all together.

The documentation could use some work, most of the PyQT docs are in C++ 
and can take some fiddeling to get right.  At one point I started to do 
some documentation for BA to give to some coworkers, if I can find it 
you are welcome to it (they decided to stick with Perl, so I never had 
to finish it).

They have a mailing list (somewhere) for BA discussions, I forgot what 
the address is and had it sent to an address I no longer have access to. 
:(  If you do purchase BA, I would say skip the support and the option 
to receive CDs.  In the time that I have had the program there hasn't 
been an update, the support is so-so and they haven't ever sent a CD.

Even with all of that BA is usually the second program I open when I do 
Python development (the shell is first).  The feature I like most is the 
ability to collapse code blocks.

Wayne
-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From krissepu at vip.fi  Tue Mar  5 11:23:22 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (pekka niiranen)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:23:22 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20 does not work
References: <mailman.1014671543.6120.python-list@python.org> <3C848CBF.9000201@vip.fi> <j4664b73qp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C84F129.70905@vip.fi>

True, HP-UX's default compiler is only meant for compliling the kernel
therefore  I installed  binutils v2.11.2,  gcc v3.01 and gmake v3.79.1 from
HP's software repository and tried compiling with this script:

#! /usr/bin/sh
export CCOPTS='+z'
unset LANG
gmake distclean
CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-threads=no --without-cxx 
--prefix=/opt/python

gmake fails twice:

1)
/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getaddrinfo.c:544: 
warning: `h_error' might be used uninitialized in this funcn
In file included from 
/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:239:
/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c: In 
function `getnameinfo':
/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c:184: 
`h_errno' undeclared (first use in this function)
/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c: In 
function `gethost_common':
/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:1975: 
`h_errno' undeclared (first use in this function)
WARNING: building of extension "_socket" failed: command 'gcc' failed 
with exit status 1 

2)
gcc -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I. 
-I/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/./Include -I/usr/local/incluo
ld -b build/temp.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_cursesmodule.o 
-L/usr/local/lib -lncurses -o build/lib.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_curl
ld: DP relative code in file /usr/local/lib/libncurses.a(lib_addch.o) - 
shared library must be position
    independent.  Use +z or +Z to recompile.
WARNING: building of extension "_curses" failed: command 'ld' failed 
with exit status 1 

Anybody solved these problems

-pekka-

Martin von Loewis wrote:

>pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> writes:
>
>>I tried the build script below in HP-UX 10.20
>>( HP-UX B.10.20 A 9000/777 2002144332 two-user license)
>>and got the following errors during make:
>>
>>cc -Ae -c -DNDEBUG -O -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o
>>Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
>>(Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -A option is available only with the
>>C/ANSI C product; ignored.
>>(Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -O option is available only with the
>>C/ANSI C product; ignored.
>>
>
>It seems that you are using the bundled compiler. Python source code
>is ANSI C, you need an ANSI C compiler to compile it. Try either the
>HP ANSI C compiler, or gcc (the former being recommended).
>
>Regards,
>Martin
>

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From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Thu Mar  7 13:22:03 2002
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:22:03 -0800
Subject: Python on W2K server and dos batch files?
References: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net> <899f842.0203062032.75b219a7@posting.google.com> <J3Eh8.87834$kb.5458763@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3C87AFCB.1731B0B5@noaa.gov>

Mark Kingston wrote:
> Thanks Anthony.  I downloaded the ActiveState and it has very good
> documentation.  Can you please tell me what TK is?

TK is a GUI toolkit written for TCL, that has been wrapped for use by
Python (and other languages). In Python it is known as Tkinter. Tkinter
is not the offical GUI toolkit for Python, but it is the only one
included with the standdard distribution.

Personally, I like wxPython better: I think it produces a more native
looking app, is faster, and I just like how it is put together better.
Most of this is just personal preference. The one truly compelling
reason to use TK is the wonderful canvas widget, but you don't seem to
have a need for that.

At first look, TK seems to be quicker and easier and require less code
to build a GUI, but my experience (and that of others) is that while you
can through something together faster with TK, once you tweek it to be
just how you want, and have a full blown application, you have written
more code than you would with wxPython. Also, the canvas asside,
wxPython has a bigger collection of higher level widgets than TK (A
spreadsheet like grid, an html window, etc.)

Take a look at the various docs on the web, and make a choice. Both will
probably fit your needs just fine, so it's down to personal preference.

While you're at it, check out PyQT as well. 

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From brueckd at tbye.com  Thu Mar  7 14:14:27 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hotmail
In-Reply-To: <a689ml$cbf9b$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203071106230.2233-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Bertrand Geston wrote:

> I would like to retrieve mails from Hotmail and I wonder if it is not
> 'better' to use COM/DOM on Outlook express that can, if I am not mistaken,
> retrieve mails from Hotmail using http requests. By 'better', I mean less
> linked to the hotmail site layout (but OK linked to the Oultook DOM
> interface) and probably quicker.

Last time I checked Outlook Express could do Hotmail but Outlook couldn't
(well, it could if you count Outlook opening a browser window to the
Hotmail site - very cheesy).

I'm all for not being tied to a particular site layout, but I will point
out that the Hotmail site is very easy to scrape data off of relative to
many other sites. The address book example I posted relied on 5 pieces of
site info, one of which isn't overly important (the logout button) and two
of which will probably never change (username/password).

If you do go the Outlook Express route, please share your results here!
-Dave




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 17:41:22 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:41:22 -0800
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MPG.170e8d686c5d8561989683@news.nwlink.com>

In article <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, 
robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk says...
> Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying. I
> suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
> differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'

1) Strings are immutable.  This implies that there is zero 
practical difference between two references to two separate 
string objects of identical value, and two references to the same 
string object.

2) Keeping point #1 in mind, it is both faster and more memory-
efficient to use the same string object wherever practical.

3) Why on earth are you even worried about object identity for 
simple strings???  ;)

-- 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Mon Mar  4 11:36:52 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 16:36:52 GMT
Subject: Calling java servlets using python
References: <a5uf57+phjb@eGroups.com> <20020304023054.GB3682@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015217485.19687.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna86ch3.178.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Wayne Pierce wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>> Le 04/03/02 ? 00:29, gopesh_sharma ?crivit:
>> 
>>>Dear All:
>>>
>>>Please let me know how to call java servlets using python? 
>>>
>> 
>> You need to be more specific what exactly you want to accomplish.
>> 
>> Python is the client, the Java servlet is the server: use urllib/
>> urllib2.
> 
> Not __really__, servlets are just code running on the server, but they 
> aren't the server themselves.  Think of them as souped-up CGI scripts, 
> without the forking penalty (except on the first request). [...]

Thanks, but I'm perfectly familiar with Servlets and JSP.
Nevertheless, the OP's question was all but clear, so, in absence of a
crystal ball, your answer is just as much guessing as mine.

Btw. this is a good read for asking questions efficiently:

    http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 14:46:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:46:57 -0500
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3C9E2D31.E45278BC@engcorp.com>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Yes, that's the case.  It's generally considered to lead to
> > undefined behaviour if you do manage to kill a thread from
> > the outside, because of resource locking issues and such.
> 
> That's the received opinion indeed. It still leads to problems.
> I mean -- it's why you can kill a process, but not a thread. But in
> an agent system, every agent (presumably running a thread, although
> I've implemented systems where agents share threads, cooperative
> multi-tasking agents) is on its own, and shouldn't own objects
> or locks.

I'm curious what the agent actually does if it doesn't share
anything.  Does it not take input?  And produce output?
No opening files, accessing Queues and such?  If it does
any of those things, wouldn't that make it potentially a
problem if you killed it?

I realize it may be only a theoretical problem in some specific
applications, since one might be able to guarantee that one will 
not attempt to kill a thread when it is in a particular subroutine 
and therefore unsafe.  It might be nice to have the option, if
one really wanted, especially if there are simple conditions 
under which one could guarantee a thread is safe to kill (not
blocking and without shared resources locked).

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 01:24:54 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:24:54 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <MPG.170e8d686c5d8561989683@news.nwlink.com> <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com> <slrnaacgi8.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA6ABB6.71786096@engcorp.com>

phil hunt wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:16:27 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
> >common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
> >quickly by something like:
> >
> >a = [0] * 1000000
> >for i in xrange(1000000):
> >    a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'
> 
> Simpler is range(1000000)

Yeah, I know.  I think you and Aahz missed my (admittedly puny)
point, which was to hypothesize _at least one case_ where it
was conceivably desirable by someone to try to copy a string.

I've seen the above, without 'bigstring' + str(i) and without
any attempt at simplification, posted several times by newbies
attempting for various reasons to consume a lot of memory.
Maybe they just wanted to consume it gradually rather than
all in one big piece.

The fact that this approach is entirely the wrong one doesn't
change the fact that some people think they want it.  Which
was all I was trying to say.  I'll go away again now. :)

-Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar  4 13:26:44 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:26:44 -0600
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
Message-ID: <15491.48228.515787.419778@beluga.mojam.com>

Sorry for the off-topic post.  My entire C programming world these days is
in the Python community, so I'm completely disconnected from other C
programming resources.  (Pointer to information about porting Unix code to
MSVC would be much appreciated.)  

Given this simple file access permission code:

    mode_check(struct stat *buf, uid_t uid, uid_t gid,
               unsigned int umask, unsigned int gmask, unsigned int omask)
    {
        /* root always gets to go */
        if (uid == 0) return 1;

        if (uid == buf->st_uid) return buf->st_mode & umask;

        if (gid == buf->st_gid) return buf->st_mode & gmask;

        return buf->st_mode & omask;
    }

how would I do this under Windows?  Is the permission model there even
remotely similar to what I'm used to on Unix systems?  I poked around
posixmodule.c, but it makes next to no use of uids and gids.  As far as I
can tell, Windows doesn't know about uid_t or gid_t, though it has a struct
_stat type whose st_uid and st_gid fields are shorts, so I can work around
the missing types.

Thx,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Tue Mar 12 17:42:06 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:42:06 -0800
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <3C8E843E.7C717737@activestate.com>

Samuele Pedroni wrote:
> 
> Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list at python.org...
> > So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
> > Herald - see
> > http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html
> >
> 
> It's probably just the journalist's fault but I find the article frivolous
> and vague.
> 
> What he is concretely working about? What he contretely want to work about?
> etc... There are many possible integration philosophies and technologies?
> and both aspects tech/philosophy are far from irrelevant.
> (The frozen Python.NET as a full fledged Python or limited
> and altered, a new attempt in that direction, bridging ...)
> 
> Is he working in stealth-mode or it is just MS-kind PR <wink>?
> 
> What kind of Python technologies will the book treat?
> 
> Just some academic questions. regards.

I agree w/ Cameron's response.  The article is remarkably technical for
a trade press article.  If you want _technical_ questions, then I
suggest you ask Mark (politely, preferably -- accusing Mark of doing PR
is not going to get you anywhere =).

--david



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 26 17:09:27 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:09:27 GMT
Subject: calldll and threads...
References: <ef8e9188.0203261003.3b7a7681@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA0F1B4.9060306@skippinet.com.au>

Steve wrote:
> I could benefit from words of wisdom... this is the situation:
> 
> I want to use Python as a high level language to write a test suite
> for a complex shared library (I've a windows DLL acting as proxy to
> remote server(s)) which has several blocking calls, and for which the
> interleaving and overlapping of calls is very significant. I need to
> drive a client to demonstrate code coverage on the server side - there
> is a large degree of server side interaction between concurrently
> executing client actions.
> 
> In Python, my first attempt used thread.start_new_thread() when
> executing a python wrapper for a call which could block.. which I
> later rewrote to use threading.Thread.  Initially all seemed well
> until I found that the whole python program blocked waiting for the
> first blocking call to the DLL.  Then I read about the "Global
> Interpreter Lock" and went on to look at the source for calldll.pyd -
> which didn't seem to address threading.  I tried following the advice
> in the python docs:
> 
> Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
> //...Do some blocking I/O operation... making sure not to use
> return...
> Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
> 
> Which I used to wrapper all calls to dll functions with a customised
> calldll... the above code massaged into call_foreign_function()... 
> but I now find that while the very first call to my modified calldll
> seems to work fine - subsequent calls crash the python interpreter.
> 
> Has anyone else had similar problems with calldll or anything like it?
> Can anyone explain what I've done wrong with Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
> and friend? Do other people use python to script similar regression
> test scenarios? Is there a standard mechanism to make a blocking call
> from a python thread?

This is a common problem, not just with calldll.  Although you released 
the lock OK, you will probably find that you did not re-acquire the lock 
as calldll made callbacks into your code.  What was the callstack when 
you crashed?

Mark.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 16:43:18 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:43:18 -0800
Subject: Stedents Question
References: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au> <mailman.1015027983.17189.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C83EA76.BEA9C041@ccvcorp.com>


Geert-Jan Van den Bogaerde wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 00:45, Tony K wrote:
> > The question below is a tutorial question that stumps me.  Any suggestions
> > would be appreciated.
> > Tony
> >
> > Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as parameter
> > and returns all substrings thereof which match the regexp pattern ab+c. You
> > are NOT allowed to use the re module.
> >
>
> Haven't used regexps in a while, but I believe that just means:
>
> def findABBC(str):
>     return str == "a" + "b" * len(str[1:-1]) + "c"

Except that the spec was to return all matching substrings.  You're simply
testing to see if the entire string matches that pattern, and returning a boolean
true/false.  (This could theoretically be used as a helper function in a
solution, though I suspect that there's a better way to go about it.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 23 18:20:24 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 00:20:24 +0100
Subject: struct - Library Reference 4.3
References: <3C9CC1BB.A6C8A9C8@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <m3r8maj2h3.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Colin J. Williams" <cjw at sympatico.ca> writes:

> This gives no indication as to which of the argument's
> components is the source of the grief.
> 
> Any information about the error function would be
> appreciated.

It's not a function - it is an exception. If you want to catch the
exception, you need to write a try-except-block.

The exception does not provide any further information beyond the
string that is printed - it is assumed that the nature of the error
would be obvious once you read the string.

Regards,
Martin



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Mar  5 12:01:22 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 17:01:22 GMT
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <m3bse3frtd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a62tl2$19mk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis):
| weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:
...
|> PS: Here's the problem with the Python 2.2 ./configure for HP-UX 10.2.  To
|> determine if _POSIX_THREADS is defined in unistd.h, it runs the C
|> preprocessor on a file with the contents:
|> 
|> #include <unistd.h>
|>      #ifdef _POSIX_THREADS
|>      yes
|>      #endif
|> 
|> Unfortunately, with the C preprocessor invocation used by ./configure, the
|> indented #ifdef is not recognized, which results in the #ifdef construct
|> being mindlessly echoed, which is erroneously interpreted as the answer
|> "yes".  This causes _POSIX_THREADS to not be defined in pyconfig.h,
|> resulting in a bunch of undefined thread-related functions at link time.
|
| What C compiler? I doubt that aCC (which is available for 10.20 as
| well) has this problem; do not use the bundled C compiler for anything.

I can confirm that tolerance for this isn't universal.  "cc" on Digital
UNIX 4.0 won't recognize indented #if either, just as reported above.
It isn't portable.

BTW, it has been some years since I used HPUX 10.20, but at the time
we used "cc" for most everything, usually with "-Ae" to support modern
C usage.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From aahz at panix.com  Fri Mar  1 23:02:31 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 20:02:31 -0800
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com>

[posted & e-mailed]

In article <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list at python.org>,
Trent Mick  <trentm at ActiveState.com> wrote:
>
>Simple Example
>
>    This shows a very simple example of how the logging package can be
>    used to generate simple logging output on stdout.

Tim will whine about Win9x, but I suggest that stderr be the default.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Mar 26 16:12:27 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:12:27 -0800
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com> <slrnaa1i9v.jhl.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <a7qovs$njspa$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Huaiyu Zhu
> Aahz
> ><sigh>  Try http://ht2html.sf.net
>
> Yes, it's there.  Thanks.
>
> I was confused because someone mentioned that it's in the Tools
directory.
> It's not in the python Tools directory.

My mistake -- I did a locate ht2html and it popped up under tools.
Looking closer now, I find it under a cvs-1.10.6.tar directory from
three years ago, under Release/python/dist/src/Tools.  Even then, no
actual programs.

As to finding it at http://ht2html.sf.net, I didn't find it either first
time through as I didn't look closely enough at the ht2html at SourceForge
to distinguish it from an e-mail address.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com




From cfelling at iae.nl  Tue Mar  5 10:55:59 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 16:55:59 +0100
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203040130.17140530@posting.google.com> <a611bl$44i$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203042338.141afe8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a62pqf$42t$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Brian <brian at lodoss.org> wrote:
...
> Do you also feel my original code is better in terms of style or would
> it be even better as the more verbose:

> z = []
> for i in xrange(y):
>     z.append(MyClass())

I personally like *simple* list comprehensions better.

> OK - now I have another question (and remember I'm new to Python) if
> map and lambda are part of the core language and have well defined
> behavior, why is it that using them is considered bad form?  Are they
> just the redheaded step-children of the language, or what? ;-)

lambda and friends were a patch submitted by evil forces that somehow
managed to slip by Guido's otherwise impeccable language designers
instinct, or so some of us believe:)

Atleast I think I've read that Guido regrets adding them.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From arturs at iidea.pl  Sun Mar  3 08:31:01 2002
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:31:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 262 (database of installed Python packages)
References: <mailman.1015157885.26409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna849op.lfs.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> However, I am both hands pro CPAN for Python.

It's not only useful, it's necessary! This is simply sad when you
look for a module only to find out that it no longer exists
- as it happened with Python bindings for RenderMan (reality.sgi.com
story). Anyone remeber Gadfly?
I think simply adding "local copy" link on Parnassus would solbe
the problem.


Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 15:44:53 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:44:53 +0000
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8nhe5.7t7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 10 Mar 2002 10:15:06 -0800, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>In article <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
>phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
>>>C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
>>>that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
>>>Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
>>
>>I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python, 
>>e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems, 
>>run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.
>
>But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
>than C/Python?

Any task for whiich OO is useful, which means essentially all
programs >5000 lines (and most smaller ones), will benefit from C++
over C.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From imcmeans at home.com  Sun Mar 17 01:56:23 2002
From: imcmeans at home.com (Ian McMeans)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:56:23 GMT
Subject: mixing regular expression
References: <D4Wk8.107090$eb.4892148@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <3C943641.CD0086B3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <r6Xk8.304798$A44.16796178@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C943641.CD0086B3 at engcorp.com...
> Ian McMeans wrote:
> >
> > How should go I about nesting regular expressions in python?
> >
> > I want one huge regular expression to be composed of a bunch of others -
is
> > there some way I can include a regular expression inside another?
> >
> > Or should I do it with strings - just save each regular expression's
string,
> > and then compile each combination separately?
> >
> > What I mean is this:
> > foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
> > bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")
> >
> > big = re.compile("foo|bar")
> >
> > is that possible at all? To combine regular expression objects? Or do
you
> > suggest that I just make strings for foo and bar, and then compile the
> > combined strings into big?
>
> It seems to me you need to explain whether you want them concatenated
> (in which case can't you just join the pattern strings?), or ORed
> together (similar to the foo|bar case you give above?), or "nested"
> (which to me implies some kind of hierarchy) or maybe just applied
> sequentially (in which case just do that?).
>
> -Peter

Yeah, I think I'll end up joining the pattern strings. What I wanted to do
was create a new regular expression using the regular expressions that I've
already made, without doing it via string concatenation -- which, in
hindsight, isn't actually that hard to do.

Ideally, in my example above,
foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")
 big = re.compile("foo|bar")

would be equivalent to

big = re.compile("(someregexcode)|(moreregexcode)")

I wanted to do it that way so that I could make one regex at a time, test
it, and then include it in the larger expression.




From oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl  Mon Mar 25 09:59:19 2002
From: oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl (Pawel Oleksik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:59:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [wxPython 2.3.1] what's going on?
References: <mailman.1016553874.6486.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7ne07$p7h$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
> That comma in the output is A Clue:  somehow or other, importing stuff from
> wxPython is changing your locale, which in turn causes "-0.5" to be treated
> as 0 (the answer you got is correct for 4*exp(0)/sqrt(2)).
> 
> Do a google search on
> 
>    wxPython locale
> 
[..]

yes! that was it (i.e. - locale). Luckily, wxP2.3.2 behaves much better.

Thanks for right direction.

best regards
p.o.
 


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Mar 20 12:38:06 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:38:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Attachments to the list/group - OK?  (Was Re: Popular style
 document?)
In-Reply-To: <20020320171852.GI18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203201234530.11992-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Andy Gimblett wrote:

> I've just noticed that most people seem to embed their code directly
> into their messages.  Is attaching .py files (or any other
> non-binaries) frowned upon around here?

Attachments are fine to send code and to receive it unmangled, but
if you're *discussing* code, I'ld rather see it embedded in the message
( or at least make sure that it get's attached as TEXT! ).

-- Steve Majewski





From rinnes at integraonline.com  Sun Mar 17 20:38:59 2002
From: rinnes at integraonline.com (Robert Innes)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:38:59 -0600
Subject: Python on an ARM Linux Graphics Client Plus
References: <55ddffcb.0203171705.3fb1d286@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u9ah8d616irud3@corp.supernews.com>

I must be tired, this post gives little information :-)

    I have the above system running great, been cross compiling using the
lart toolchain with little to no problems. Upgraded the kernel, and modified
the ramdisk so I know that the environment is sane. I started to get excited
about python on this device when I installed it on the iPAQ (CE version),
BTW to all who did this it ROCKS!

    I compile Python 2.2 on the Linux box, no problems as expected. So, I
would like to build this for my environment and have been fighting with it
for hours; I am about to give up that's what prompted this e-mail.

    Environment:
        Linux running Slackware with a rebuilt 2.4.5 kernel
        gcc version 2.95.3
        ---------------------------------------------------
        arm-linux-gcc version 2.95.2
        arm linux kernel version 2.4.9-ac10-rmk2-np1-ads2

Hope this helps to clarify the problem.

- Bob

"Robert Innes" <rinnes at integraonline.com> wrote in message
news:55ddffcb.0203171705.3fb1d286 at posting.google.com...
> Been killing myself trying to build this to no avail. I know it can be
> done but I have not been able to get a good version. Could some kind
> person help me preserve what little hair I have left and tell me how
> they did it or point me to a binary that I can copy to my system?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Bob




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 19:33:56 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:33:56 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF8F771E1F.B790429F-ON88256B73.000225E0@i2.com>

[James_Althoff]
> I was thinking in a more general sense: I would like to create an
iterator
> with start, end, and step values and pass it into a function without
first
> actualizing it as a list (like one would have to do using for+relational
in
> conjunction with list comp.s).  And use the same construct in for-loops,
> list comp.s, etc.  (For those just tuning in: I realize that I can create
a
> class for this -- actually, I already have.  I'm refering to proposals
for
> new idioms in Python for iterating intervals of integers.)

[Jeff Shannon]
> Um...  isn't this exactly what xrange() does?  Or am I missing something
> again?

Don't know what you missed before <wink> but here I meant to say that if
syntactic changes are introduced to Python such that one doesn't have to
use range/xrange in for-loops (in situations where currently one does) then
it would be nice from my perspective for said addition of syntax to allow
one to do what is stated above (so to speak <wink>).

One could also note that in current Python the result of xrange is not
considered to be (in the strictest sense) an iterator.

>>> from __future__ import generators
>>>
>>> class spam:
...     def __iter__(self):
...         return xrange(5)
...
>>> for i in spam():
...     print i
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: __iter__ returned non-iterator of type 'xrange'
>>>

(It might be easy to change this by putting a test in the iter builtin?)

Jim




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 20:46:32 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:46:32 -0600
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <a7trj3$sq1$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <15521.50103.968819.131319@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270752550.19847-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
        <mailman.1017244148.8383.python-list@python.org>
        <a7trj3$sq1$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <15522.30200.541394.545766@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import hotshot
    >>> hotshot.Stats
     Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Stats'

My apologies.  I was typing from memory.  Should have been

    import hotshot
    profiler = hotshot.Profile("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
    profiler.run("main()")
    profiler.close()
    import hotshot.stats
    stats = hotshot.stats.load("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
    stats.print_stats()

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From aahzpy at panix.com  Thu Mar 14 08:47:31 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 08:47:31 -0500
Subject: SF vs. Lynx (was Re: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org> <uvgbzqto6.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a6q9lj$ce7$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <uvgbzqto6.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net> wrote:
>> [Michael Hudson]
>>>
>>> But because mail from the sf tracker seems to be hitting the bit
>>> bucket, noone knows about this.
>
>sf support believe this is now fixed, btw.

OTOH, I still can't submit my stupid bug report AFAICT.  Is there anyone
who uses Lynx to access SF?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From christophe.delord at free.fr  Fri Mar 22 14:48:32 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:48:32 +0100
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B8A90.4050403@free.fr>

To run faster, you can rewrite your algorithm :


a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())

freq = {}

for i in a:
     freq[i] = freq.get(i,0) + 1

items = freq.items()
items.sort(lambda i,j: cmp(i[1],j[1]))
print items
for (i,n) in items:
     print i, n


freq is an associative array giving the number of occurences of each word.
items is the list of (word, freq) pairs from freq
The function given to sort allow to sort on the freq part of the items.

freq.get(i,0) is the number of occurence of i until now or 0 if the word 
i is new.

This may be faster...

Christophe.


Artur Skura wrote:

> Duncan Booth wrote:
> 
>>Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in 
>>news:slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net:
>>
>>>Is there an idiom in Python as to sorting dictionary by value,
>>>not keys? I came up with some solutions which are so inefficient
>>>that I'm sure there must be a simple way.
>>>
>>How do you know they are inefficient? Have you profiled your application 
>>and found this to be a bottleneck?
>>
> 
> No, and it seems the problem is not with sorting.
> I wanted to write a compact word counting script (well, in shell
> it can be done in a 5 lines or so), just  for fun.
> 
> and
> 
> import string,sys
> 
> 
> a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())
> 
> known = []
> times = 0
> output = {}
> 
> for i in a:
>     if i not in known:
>         for l in a:
>             if l == i:
>                 times = times + 1
>         known.append(i)
>         output[i] = times
>     times = 0
> 
> 
> items = [ (output[k], k) for k in output ]
> items.sort()
> items.reverse()
> items = [ (k, v) for (v, k) in items ]
> for k in items:
>     print k[0], k[1]
> 
> it seems it's slow not because of sorting...
> 
> Regards,
> Artur
> 


-- 
Christophe Delord
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/



From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Mar 15 20:35:59 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 02:35:59 +0100
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91D31A8FD3696cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub) wrote in 
news:cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac at posting.google.com:
> Hi,
> I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
> speed.

Welcome

>I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
> The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
> supposed to be
> 
> uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)
> 
> However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
> 
> uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
> how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..
> string.lstrip does not work either.

i don't see what you're doing. please post some example code alomg 
with such questions. however some guesses:

if you have a list of numbers: n = [1,2,3,4]
you can make string of it using: ','.join(map(str,n))

or are you parsing the numbers from a string? then you could try:
>>> import string
>>> n = map(string.strip, '1, 2, 3, 4'.split(','))

and if want numbers instead of strings in the list:
>>> n = map(int, '1, 2, 3, 4'.split(','))

(*) "map" is simply calling the 1st argument (a function) with each 
element of the list 2nd arg and saves the result in a list which it 
returns.
you can achieve the same with a "for" loop over the list and saving 
the result in an other list, but i find the "map" is very elegant.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  8 16:04:45 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 21:04:45 GMT
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6b91d$oau$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Roy Smith <roy at panix.com>:
| "Tim Peters" <tim at zope.com> wrote:
| > Note that Guido wants to keep 2.3 free of new core language features.  You
| > can deduce that from reading the essay, or-- like me --you can just believe
| > it because it's true <wink>.  There's a huge backlog of good ideas for
| > improving the internals and libraries, and I wouldn't be surprised to see
| > the focus remain there for 2.4 too.
|
| Not touching the core language is a Good Thing.    It's really tough to 
| convince people that python is a viable tool when it's a moving target.  
|
| It's been somewhat of an uphill battle to get my development group to 
| accept the fact that I write tools for the whole group's use in python.  
| Having the core language change from version to version just makes it 
| worse, as we discover imcompatabilities between whatever version I'm using 
| to develop on and whateve they're running on their boxes.  Telling people, 
| "Oh, you need to upgrade to version X" gets old pretty fast.  As the saying 
| goes, "if you're explaining, you've already lost."

I have proposed before that those of us who are into having
a viable tool instead of a moving target, should just pick one
and stick with it.  2.1.1, for example.  Of course you and I
can do that, solving the problems with our respective groups -
but putting us in kind of a backwater.  If we sort of collectively
agree on 2.1.1 (or whatever) for that role, though, that backwater
could get pretty lively.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From wayne at mishre.com  Sun Mar  3 23:34:11 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:34:11 -0800
Subject: Calling java servlets using python
References: <a5uf57+phjb@eGroups.com> <20020304023054.GB3682@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <3C82F943.8010202@mishre.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Le 04/03/02 ? 00:29, gopesh_sharma ?crivit:
> 
>>Dear All:
>>
>>Please let me know how to call java servlets using python? 
>>
> 
> You need to be more specific what exactly you want to accomplish.
> 
> Python is the client, the Java servlet is the server: use urllib/
> urllib2.

Not __really__, servlets are just code running on the server, but they 
aren't the server themselves.  Think of them as souped-up CGI scripts, 
without the forking penalty (except on the first request).  You can do 
similar things in straight Python with many of the application servers 
like Zope or Webware, or you could use Jython.

The most direct way that I know of would be Jython, a good book to 
pickup if you are working with Java and (J|P)ython, or just want to 
learn Jython, is _Jython_for_Java_Programmers_ .  The first part is an 
intro to Jython and the rest is various ways to call one from the other 
and integration; including servlets (pages 368-371).

I've seen reference to a way to call Java from Python, but I've never 
used it...and I don't know where you can download it from...but it is 
out there...somewhere...I think...maybe.

Wayne

-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From cwazir at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 20:38:04 2002
From: cwazir at yahoo.com (Chirag Wazir)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 17:38:04 -0800
Subject: Python using EditPlus
References: <%U_k8.5513$Hz2.19187@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <79c178a9.0203171738.723b1545@posting.google.com>

Hi,

In EditPlus go to Tools -> Configure User Tools
Add Tool -> Program with the following settings:
Menu text = Python
Command = C:\Python22\python.exe
Argument = "$(FilePath)"
Initial Directory = $(FileDir)
Capture Output = on
Output Pattern->
    Use default output pattern = off
    Regular expression = File "(.+)", line ([0-9]+)
    File name = Tagged expression 1
    Line = Tagged expression 2
    Column = None

You can then use Ctrl+1 to run your program, assuming this is the
first user tool you've added.

I find that EditPlus may not always be satisfactory - I end up using
IDLE more often. For example, if the program requires user input....

Chirag Wazir


"Luca Grossi" <lgrossi at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<%U_k8.5513$Hz2.19187 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Hello everyone ,
> 
>                          I'm sorry if this question has been asked before
> but could anyone give me instructions on how to debug and interpret python
> scripts using Edit Plus ? I download the python modules for edit plus so it
> recognise the syntax. But how do I setup the user tools , so I can check for
> bugs in the script and run it J
> 
> Thanks Luca


From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Tue Mar  5 15:44:27 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 12:44:27 -0800
Subject: PyTypeObject* XXX(PyObject*)
References: <a27c5cd4.0203050104.2af311c8@posting.google.com> <j4adtn73tb.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203051244.21fbb9a4@posting.google.com>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message news:<j4adtn73tb.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel) writes:
> 
> > PyTypeObject* t = XXX(po);
> > 
> > What should be XXX, i.e., what is the name of the function
> > to get the TypeObject of a Python Object?
> 
> No function: t = po->ob_type.
> 
Thank you,

Helmut


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar  4 23:05:19 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:05:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org> <wlvg8.4486$766.1429@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <slrna88gvv.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:04:44 GMT, logistix <logstx at bellatlantic.net> wrote:
[ example using the proposed 'for i in n' syntax ]
>
>When you run the script, a user is prompted for some numbers.  If they enter
>1,2,3,4,5, a tuple of (1,2,3,4,5) is created that can then be iterated.  If
>they just enter 5, then they probably only want to perform this operation on
>5, but when functionInMyModule() is called, the results will be identical to
>the first example, when you really want it to throw an error or create a
>tuple of (5).

This is indeed one of the best counter examples for this proposal.  

I do not think that there is any conceptual difficulty to explain that
        for i in n    ==>    for i in iter(n)
        iter(3)       ==>    xrange(3)

which is all that is in the proposal.  This is elegant and easily
explainable even to a newbie.  I actually like this quite a lot.

However, I still think the potential for unintended effects (bugs) is too
big when a one-element sequence behaves substantially different from the
element itself.  Imagine if Python had a character type and that
        "abc" == ['a', 'b', 'c'] == 'd' != "d"

Even though it can be explained, what utter confusion it would result in
actual use!

Here's another example of a similar nature.  In Matlab there is a fuction
sum(x) that would return sum of elements of x, if x is a (row or column)
vector, or a row vector of columnwise sums of x, if x is a matrix.  This is
very handy when used in isolation, but a pain in programs, because the
behavior on (1xm) matrix has a different semantics.  Suppose x is a (5x4)
matrix.  Then (using Python syntax instead of Matlab's)
        sum(a[0:n:, :])
would give a (nx4) matrix for n in 5, 4, 3, 2, but for n==1, it gives a
scalar which is the sum of x as a row vector.  

It is very expensive to guard against such "discontinuity of semantics" that
the cost completely overweigh the benefit.

Huaiyu


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 08:05:57 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:05:57 +0000
Subject: How to install pychecker?
Message-ID: <jgmj9ucgm47i87dp6eie5l5frn65ntfrpl@4ax.com>

I thought I'd try this out.

In the absence of any instructions (that I can find) I tried unzipping
it to a directory and running setup.py.

I got this:

C:\Program Files\pychecker-0.8.10>setup.py
usage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
   or: setup.py --help [cmd1 cmd2 ...]
   or: setup.py --help-commands
   or: setup.py cmd --help

error: no commands supplied

What am I supposed to do?

Thanks.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 30 11:08:10 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:08:10 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com>

Mark McEahern wrote:
> 
> [Paul Rubin]
> > I don't see much need for it.  There's no need to turn Python into Java.
> > Python, C, and Lisp have all done fine without bools.  What kinds of
> > programming tasks in Python are bools supposed to make easier?
> 
> I view the proposal not as 'making programming tasks easier' but as
> improving the readability of Python code.  If the proposal can achieve the
> latter without 'making programming tasks harder', it seems like an obvious
> win.

Okay, can somebody please prove that?

Are there code snippets which clearly have significantly improved
readability as a result of a rewrite using the proposed bool?

Without that, I'm a strong -1 on this and other such proposals.

-Peter


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 20 03:48:07 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 08:48:07 GMT
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a79ic7$qqb$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:26:30 -0800, "Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:

>Anybody have any experience generating word frequencies from short documents
>with Python and Perl?  Given a choice between the two, I'm wondering what
>will be faster.  And a related question... any idea if there will be a
>significant performance hit (or advantage?) from storing the data in MySQL
>v. my own file-based data structures?
It depends on what you mean by "the data" and what use you intend for it.
What are you trying to do besides get word frequencies in various doc files?
>
>I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so) documents at
>a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.  I'm thinking that
>the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of useless data.  Since
>word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm guessing that I can spot
>unusual words (my goal here) by loading up the top 80 percent or so of words
Do you want just the list of words, or do you want to index back to the
context(s) where they were used? Just getting a list of the least popular
20% of words over all is not much of a problem.

>in the database (by occurrences) and focusing on the words that are in the
>docs but not in the set retrieved from the database.
>
What are you going to do with which words?

>Thanks for any thoughts on this and pointers to helpful examples or modules.
>
Others seem to have inferred what you are up to, but I'll have to stick with
my original post until you say what you really are trying to do. It's not even
clear that you're interested in anything but global word frequencies over your
entire set of files, except for the clue that you think you may need to store
something in a database ;-)

I'm a little curious ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 28 05:23:14 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 10:23:14 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <DCvo8.1915$d7.607177@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3ca28aba$1@news.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa5rn7.gk.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <3ca28aba$1 at news.microsoft.com>, Shiv Shankar Ramakrishnan wrote:
> [Mark Hammond no longer at ActiveState]
> Would it be considered too impolite to ask as to what happened?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-December/019038.html

Gerhard


From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Fri Mar 22 14:19:31 2002
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoffrey Talvola)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:19:31 -0500
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
Message-ID: <BFFEB31BC23CCD44B8924E139E1D87E41241B2@MAILBOX.nameconnector.com>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> In article <mailman.1016754947.17945.python-list at python.org>, Geoffrey
> Talvola <gtalvola at nameconnector.com> writes:
> 
> | I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by 
> themselves if there
> | is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?  Is it 
> possible to
> | control this behavior?  Just a link to some documentation 
> of this behavior
> | would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> usually when this happens, it means there is some sort of "stateful
> firewall" [sic] or NAT box in the way. if you can find out where
> it is and who controls it, it may be possible to alleviate the problem
> by increasing the timeout setting. or you can add some sort of
> periodical dummy message into your protocol to refresh the memory
> of the interloper box.

I doubt that's the case here.  I'm connecting to a socket on the same
machine (using "localhost").

- Geoff



From laz at strakt.com  Tue Mar  5 19:17:43 2002
From: laz at strakt.com (Fredrik Juhlin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 01:17:43 +0100
Subject: ICU wrapper for Python?
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0203051508.4824b01f@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1012816506.11178.python-list@python.org> <m3g03kq9z8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015320253.14747.python-list@python.org> <j4r8mz58wu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015344612.32189.python-list@python.org> <c76ff6fc.0203051508.4824b01f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020306001742.GA16943@strakt.com>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 03:08:44PM -0800, John Machin wrote:
> Here FWIW is my understanding of the long form of what I think
> Martin's point is:
> 
> (1) CS == character set. UCS-2 is a 16-bit character set. It covers
> the original Unicode 1.0 character set. It is "deprecated and dead" --
> so says the ICU web site.
>
> (2) TF == transformation format. UTF-16 is a method of representing a
> larger character set (the Unicode 21-bit set) in 16-bit units. It uses
> "surrogate pairs" (two 16-bit numbers out of ranges that are reserved
> in UCS-2) to represent characters whose ordinal is greater than 65535.
Any confusion on my part is just that. I've dealt a little with Unicode
before and have read some documentation about it, but I'm well aware that
I am not very well versed in it. I'm learning about it as I go along and
as the knowledge becomes necessary. Thank you for your clarification :)

> (3) Conversion from UCS-2 to UTF-16: Unnecessary; UCS-2 data is
> already in UTF-16 format.
Indeed, that was pretty much what I said/meant/acted from.

> (4) Conversion from UTF-16 to UCS-2: if there are surrogates in the
> data, strictly a UCS-2 result is not possible; if there are no
> surrogates, then the data is already UCS-2. The only function a
> "converter" could usefully perform would be to check for surrogates.
Right, converting it isn't possible. I don't know what I was thinking :)

> (5) Pythons compiled for "narrow" Unicode (16 bits) support UTF-16
> e.g. they don't take exception to the presence of surrogates, count a
> valid surrogate pair as one character when dealing in characters as
> opposed to code-units, etc.
Ah, OK. Good to know.

Anyway, the code I've produced thus far is available at
http://www.strakt.com/~laz/picu/picu-20020306.tar.gz

Thanks a lot for the help and input so far :)

//FJ



From p.magwene at snet.net  Mon Mar  4 18:47:29 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:47:29 GMT
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
References: <Tjig8.5306$H17.1119368328@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> <zGsg8.165877$dh.43603923@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.04.18.47.27.78188.51932@snet.net>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:02:23 -0500, Darrell wrote:

I was afraid that might be the case (i.e. standard regular expressions
couldn't handle the nested braces).  Well, I guess it's back to my
function based approach.

Thanks,
Paul


> Tim Peters Explains it here.
> http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ed6a75bc5eed7ee9&seekm=000401be9e6d%2427a98ec0%24029e2299
> 
> Searched on
> "tim peters match"
> It's result 203
> 
> --Darrell
> 
> Paul M
> wrote:
> 
>> Is it possible to create a regular expression for searching for the
>> outermost matching braces in a string in which there may be nested
>> braces?
>> 


I w


From fabella at free.fr  Wed Mar 27 05:29:32 2002
From: fabella at free.fr (Franck Abella)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:29:32 +0100
Subject: Importing PYC
Message-ID: <a7s6l7$e78$1@wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I download  a pyc libray and i have a problem to import it. The name of the
library is "LibDates.pyc" ( powerfull dates functions)  . I can't use
"import LibDates.pyc" or "import LibDates" even if i put LibDates.pyc in the
python path library.

How can i import it and use their functions ??






From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Mar  2 07:30:26 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:30:26 GMT
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5nhn5$8c3$0@216.39.172.122> <j47koweh9l.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5pd8q$qnd$0@216.39.172.122> <m3sn7jbcl9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <CB3g8.2032$aG5.9836@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Martin v. Loewis:
> bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
> > Will the following work?
> >
> >  >>> print u'\u0041'
> >  A
> >  >>> print u'\u221e'
> >
> >  Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >  UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> >  >>>
>
> With the patch to print Unicode to the Windows console, the
> UnicodeError will be gone. Whether or not Lucida Unicode supports that
> character, I cannot say.

   It does, it is an infinity symbol and is available in most Windows
fonts - Verdana, Times New Roman, ...

> > And if I redirect the output to a file, what will be in the file?
>
> Since the isatty test fails, the system default encoding will be used.
> Unless you've changed that, you'll get a UnicodeError again.

   How do you tell Python to treat stdout as a tty even though it is
actually a pipe? I'd like to run Unicode printing programs from within SciTE
with I/O redirected to SciTE's output pane. There is also an issue with
stdin where I'd like to tell Python to treat redirected input, fed through a
pipe, as a tty.

   Neil





From heiko.wolf at dlr.de  Thu Mar  7 03:39:25 2002
From: heiko.wolf at dlr.de (Heiko Wolf)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 00:39:25 -0800
Subject: Wait at EOF when executing a Python-Script?
Message-ID: <d013da35.0203070039.52a62bbc@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I got a Python program that executes a user-definied script (also
written in Python) with the execfile()-command.
Now another program should write its own data (e.g. Python commands)
at the end of the above mentioned script file...

Is there a way that Python waits at the end of the script and looks if
there come any new lines? It should only stop when a special keyword
comes up.
It is needed that the script is in Python, maybe there is another way
of executing it than with execfile()?

Cheers, Heiko


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Mar 13 18:47:13 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:47:13 -0800
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com>; from rjones@ekit-inc.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 09:36:17AM +1100
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6o53b$62u$1@panix3.panix.com> <20020313122953.B15069@ActiveState.com> <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020313154713.A30850@ActiveState.com>

[Richard Jones wrote]
> Have you investigated roundup recently? That is, since it was re-written from 
> scratch using the spec from the Software Carpentry project? Or are you just 
> making these statements based on several-year-old-knowledge?

No I haven't looked at it recently. I was just giving my (FUD-y) experience
of the Roundup pre-Software-Carpentry. Can you attach files to issues/bugs in
the new Roundup?

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sun Mar 17 15:21:17 2002
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 20:21:17 GMT
Subject: sunstring
References: <0r4l8.22204$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrna99udr.8ne.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Billy Ng <evebill8 at hotmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Would anybody tell me how to do substring in python?

Slicing:

x = "abcdefghijklm"

def = x[3:6]   # "def"

Like all indexing in Python, it starts at 0, and does not include the
endpoint. 

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sat Mar 16 15:09:03 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 12:09:03 -0800
Subject: Sample Python programs to look at?
References: <327f0ccd.0203161144.14299a4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xd6y4e0m8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jennyw at colorfulexpressions.com (jennyw) writes:
> Hi there! I was just wondering if someone could suggest sample Python
> programs to look at.  Something complicated enough for me to get a
> feel for what programming something non-trivial would be like, but not
> so complex that it's overwhelming.  In particular, I'm interested in
> database access (e.g. MySQL) and IMAP access, so if there's a smallish
> app. w/ source out there that someone could point me to, that'd be
> great!

You could start with some of the library modules included in the
Python distribution.  


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 06:15:59 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 11:15:59 GMT
Subject: two ideoms at one blow: line-reading and regexp-matching
References: <mailman.1014220809.23774.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6i3lf$7nf$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Gustavo,

> But you impact legibility:
> 
>   mo = findSomething.search(someString)
>   while mo:
> 	....
> 	....
> 	mo = findSomething.search(someString)
> 
> is much more understandable than:

No, it's atrocious because it duplicates code, giving a good chance
that one will be edited in the future and not the other.

Cheers,


Ralph.



From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Sat Mar  9 19:22:54 2002
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 00:22:54 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news>
Message-ID: <a6e90u$j9u$1@news.mathworks.com>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
> I understand the problem of rounding errors with binary numbers.
> However, the rounding functions of other languages  work around it and
> return a usable result. What have they got that Python hasn't got?

Nothing.  They probably just display their floating-point numbers differently.
Internally, they get the same result as Python, but display the number in a more
friendly (less accurate) way.


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  8 01:28:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 06:28:37 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <a69lml$b2v$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:54:29 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> 
>> The problem is to do it by using an existing source of text, without
>> changing the text, and without using an external file to delimit it.
>
>Even something like q'delim' doesn't allow you to
>easily use completely arbitrary text, because you 
>still have to pick *some* string that doesn't occur 
>in the text. Although you don't have to modify the
>text, you do have to inspect it in order to choose
>a suitable delimiter.
Unless you choose one with vanishingly small probability
of being included, like a generated guid. A smart editor
could do this for you.  You could also generate a unique
hash that couldn't (conjecture ;-) be part of the hashed
string -- but that would be a form of scanning, and you'd
have to look ahead through the entire text before
you wrote the initial delimiter.

>
>I have another idea that doesn't suffer from that
>problem.
>
>  def string my_string:
>    This is a free-form string constant. Its value consists
>    of all the text at this indentation level, verbatim,
>    with the indentation stripped off. It can contain
>    ', ", ''', """, \ or any other characters.
>
I like it, though it doesn't meet the no-changes-to-the-text requirement.

I particularly like the indent-stripping for doc-strings. Since it's
a minor variation on string parsing, I think I would tend to want to
use a variant-id prefix character instead of a special def. E.g., using your strings:

    def foo():
        d"
            This is a free-form string constant. Its value consists
            of all the text at this indentation level, verbatim,
            with the indentation stripped off. It can contain
            ', ", ''', """, \ or any other characters.

            Doc-string indentation would look nicer in code sources :)
        pass

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gcordova at hebmex.com  Tue Mar 26 09:34:51 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:34:51 -0600
Subject: [ZPublisher] how to install ?
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689D2@SRM201002>

> 
> Hi!
> I'm using mod_python and from the docs I've read about
> ZPublisher.
> 
> I would like to use the great ability to point to a function inside
> a module from URL ... http://server/site/module/function
> 
> how can I do this?
> is this the only way to do this ?
> I don't want to use all Zope, and if possible some solution
> that use my version of python 2.2 ...
> 
> thax a lot
> davide.

Inside the python module mod_python (not the apache module "python_module")
there's a Publisher interface; you use that as your request handler inside
a directory.

Check out the installation files; I'm not on my linux machine, so I don't
know exactly where it is, but it's there, at least in reasonably recent
versions of mod_python.

Good luck.

-gus



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Mar  7 12:30:03 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:30:03 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <B8ACE2AC.5F91%jonathan@onegoodidea.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-789575.09300307032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <B8ACE2AC.5F91%jonathan at onegoodidea.com>,
 Jonathan Hogg <jonathan at onegoodidea.com> wrote:

> To a new programmer, teaching them
> that 'for' iterates over sequences and that 'range' makes sequences of
> integers is pretty easy (and yes, I used to teach).

That part is easy, yes.  The harder part is explaining multi-parameter 
versions of range.  What I've been resorting to in order to avoid this 
problem is rearranging all my integer loops to only use the 
single-parameter version.


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Mar 25 20:35:10 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:35:10 GMT
Subject: forgetting state
References: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com> <cadr9u8ga972iieh0naiubrde1isultk99@4ax.com> <Ieun8.7808$8r.7426@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> <k8gv9u46g68gnihomcfhf0eqiq5co77cvr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ifQn8.11765$EE4.38580@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Dale Strickland-Clark:

> There really should be a "throw it all away and let me start again"
> button.

   To do this, you need to write your shell in another language so the code
being debugged does not modify the Python shell (or debugger or IDE) code.
Another approach would be to have multiple separate Python 'worlds' one for
the shell and the other for the session. Then you have to have a way to talk
between the two.

   Some IDEs, such as HAP can run the user code in a separate process and
are able to "throw it all away and let me start again".
http://hapdebugger.sourceforge.net/
   It is a little difficult in HAP to figure out how to interact with the
Python interpreter when in the middle of debugging - the "Debug Output"
window to the right will accept commands as well as showing output. The
"Both" tab should be selected to be able to see both stderr and stdout.

   If the HAP developers are reading this, a good enhancement would be to
allow running a copy of Python without any program so that it can just be
used interactively while still having access to the locals/globals/watch
windows.

   Neil





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  2 22:02:22 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:02:22 -0500
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C81923E.A2F2EF3D@engcorp.com>

"Cromwell, Jeremy" wrote:
> 
> If python was to allow "for i in 5:", is there any other meaning that would
> be appropriate besides the one detailed in PEP 276?

Certainly, at least to a newcomer.

I think I would expect that to do either the same as "for i=1 to 5: next"
or to just do "5" only.  After all, if I have a list of things and
"for" iterates through them, then wouldn't it make sense for a scalar
to result in iteration over only one item?

(I don't care to argue, but you asked and I believe both those
could be considered "appropriate".  I'm not the BDFL though.)


From jlegault at impathnetworks.com  Wed Mar 13 09:35:24 2002
From: jlegault at impathnetworks.com (Jeremie Legault)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:35:24 -0500
Subject: Parsing system ini files (beginner)
Message-ID: <9sJj8.32670$hb6.1954714@news20.bellglobal.com>

I am currently teaching myself how to use Python, I have no programming
experience. In one of the books I am using they have an exercise that asks
you to create a program that parses the contents of an ".ini" system file. I
am not sure what they mean by parse the ".ini" file. If anyone has any ideas
could you email me at jivesojer at hotmail.com.

Thank You
Jeremie




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 08:25:28 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:25:28 +0000
Subject: Encoding when building XML via minidom? (...beginner needs advice)
References: <a7s6mn$eip$1@news.nextra.cz>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3i28.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:25:04 +0100, Petr Prikryl <Answer.via.news.please.prikryl at skil.nospam.cz> wrote:
>
>It seems that XML is the right format for generating the intermediate
>form of the documents,

I guess that depends what the files will be used for. If the program 
reading the files is to be written in Python too, it might be easier 
to output the data as a serialised python file.



-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 13 09:31:44 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 09:31:44 -0500
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6nnsg$chc$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4 at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability
>http://news.com.com/2100-1001-857008.html 
>impact zlib.pyd? 

Dunno, but I filed a SF bug to check compatibility with the new 1.1.4.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From fabi.kreutz at gmx.de  Fri Mar  1 12:26:59 2002
From: fabi.kreutz at gmx.de (fabi.kreutz at gmx.de)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 17:26:59 GMT
Subject: Python's Syntax
References: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <a5odl3$gc$2@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

Hi,

> if condition == TRUE:
>     do this
> How do you tell it when to stop? I just can't figure out how to do it.

It's the identation that "closes the brackets".
Like this:

if condition:
  do something
  so something else
continue indepently from condition
programm cntinues

Just try to change the identation slightly, you will get an parser error,
if it does not fit:

if condition:
    idented
  wrong-idented

> Also, another thing about Python's syntax. Are statements just sperated by
> their lines, or do they have some form of seperator (like a semi-colon)?

Ah, this question is already aswered :)

Bye


From michael+usenet at dynamine.net  Fri Mar 29 17:59:56 2002
From: michael+usenet at dynamine.net (Michael S. Fischer)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:59:56 -0000
Subject: IOError on file close
References: <ua9n9hhmdicned@corp.supernews.com> <m3lmcbui00.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ua9sfc1ighfi36@corp.supernews.com>

On 29 Mar 2002 23:27:43 +0100, Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> No, but I can tell you how to find out. Write these commands into a
> script, then run the script under strace(1). Find the system call that
> returns error 38 (ENOSYS). Once you found it, you will know what
> system call is not supported by that part of the proc file system.

It appears that the write() call is the one that's failing, not the
close() call.  Python is throwing the exception at the wrong time. 
Should I report this as a Python bug?

open("/proc/scsi/scsi", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0666) = 3
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0444, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 
0x40016000
write(3, "scsi add-single-device 0 0 1 0\n", 31) = -1 ENOSYS (Function not 
implemented)
close(3)                                = 0
munmap(0x40016000, 4096)                = 0
write(2, "Traceback (most recent call last"..., 35Traceback (most recent call 
last):

Also strange is the fact that a shell script has nearly the same syscall
trace results but doesn't return an error to me:

#!/bin/sh
echo "scsi add-single-device 0 0 1 0" > /proc/scsi/scsi

open("/proc/scsi/scsi", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC|O_LARGEFILE, 0666) = 3
fcntl64(1, F_GETFD)                     = 0
fcntl64(1, F_DUPFD, 10)                 = 10
fcntl64(1, F_GETFD)                     = 0
fcntl64(10, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC)        = 0
dup2(3, 1)                              = 1
close(3)                                = 0
write(1, "scsi add-single-device 0 0 1 0\n", 31) = -1 ENOSYS (Function not 
implemented)

> If you then want to understand it even deeper, you must locate the
> relevant part of the Linux source code, and check why it returns
> -ENOSYS. Most likely, it has a NULL function pointer in it somewhere,
> and the syscall layer return ENOSYS.

That indeed appears to be the case, but it looks like a bug in the 
kernel to me.

-- 
Michael S. Fischer / michael at dynamine.net / +1 650-533-4684
Lead Hacketeer, Dynamine Consulting, Silicon Valley, CA


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 15:15:54 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:54 +0000
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <a78uvi$ff1$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:

> 
> - Magnus (who also is a bit baffled as to why distutils doesn't
> include?an?"uninstall"?command,?such?as?the?one?implemented?by
> Thomas?Heller.)

Amen. It's incredibly annoying to have to tell users that a simple python 
setup.py install does the trick as far as splattering files all over their 
system, but that there's no reasonable way of undoing the process easily.

I realize how busy the core team is, but I truly hope that in the future 
someone finds time to give distutils a serious revamp. It's sorely needed, 
and it's IMHO a key piece of the python puzzle as a solid, wide-availability, 
cross-platform language.

Oh well...

f.


From roy at panix.com  Thu Mar  7 09:13:03 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:13:03 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <B8ACE2AC.5F91%jonathan@onegoodidea.com> <3C87680D.CC8A546C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <roy-685C08.09130207032002@news1.panix.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> I think I rarely use for with a range any more, because I tend to
> think "if I need to do something eight times, there are probably 
> eight things I'm doing something to so I should just take those
> things and iterate over a list of them".

That's an interesting way to look at it.

I just took a look at some random collection of python code I've got laying 
around, totaling 6100 lines.  I've got 85 for loops, 12 of which use range, 
the other 73 don't.  What's even more interesting is that of the 12 ranges, 
11 of them are in a single file; the only file of the collection which I 
didn't write (and which I consider pretty ugly code).

I don't remember ever thinking "for x in range is bad, let me see if I can 
write this some other way", it's just a result of the natural way I write 
python code.  I suspect if you look at some of my earlier code, you would 
find a lot more range constucts in it.  Paradigm shift?  Gotten more used 
to the language?  Maybe.

I remember when I was first moving from Fortran to C, I wrote a lot of 
goto's.  Gradually, I evolved that way of thinking out of how I wrote code.  
After many years of C, I got to the point where I would very, very 
occasionally write a goto, most often when needed to do something like 
break out of several nested loops at once.  I *knew* gotos were evil, but 
would convince myself that "yeah, in this special case, you really do need 
to do that".  Python doesn't even have gotos, and I don't miss them.

The one "for x in range" loop that I wrote, was a particularly bletcherous 
piece of code which grovels over strings one character at a time.  Even 
before I did this little experiment, it's the one module I've got which I 
keep saying to myself really needs to be re-written in C.  I think maybe 
the real problem is I wrote this piece of code like I would have written 
the C version, doing very un-pythonic things like:

        for i in range (len (line)):
            c = line[i]
                [...]
                elif c.isdigit() or c == '-' or c == '.':
                [...]
                if c == "'":
                    if line[i+1:i+2] == "'":

Python may be a swiss army knife, if you try to do brain surgery with a 
swiss army knife, you'll end up with poor results.  I think the above code 
proves that.

I've been watching the discussion of this PEP somewhat horrified because 
it's a completely gratuitous change which adds nothing of significant 
value.  It's just another special case to confuse people trying to learn 
the language.  Now that I've looked at just how uncommon the "for x in 
range" construct really is, I'm even more convinced the whole idea is just 
plain silly.


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Mar  5 18:28:07 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:28:07 -0800
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
In-Reply-To: <20020305221836.GA3612@lurkabove.darkstar>
References: <20020305221836.GA3612@lurkabove.darkstar>
Message-ID: <20020305232807.GF11517@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Marco Herrn (herrn at gmx.net):
> Hello,
> 
> I am new to python and have a question how to achieve $subject.
> 
> I want something like the 'this' statement in java that gives you the
> current object. So when I call a method like f(this) I give the object
> that calls the method as argument.
> But how can I do this in python?
> I am using python 2.1.

Unless I'm grossly misreading your question, the answer is that python
more or less does that for you automatically.

    class Spam:
        def method(self):
            print "Look at me, I'm ", self

    eggs = Spam()
    eggs.method()

If you're looking for something more sophisticated than that, I think
you need to rephrase your question (or hold out for someone who
understands your problem better).

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Punctuality is the virtue of the bored." 
<geoff at gerrietts net>                               --Evelyn Waugh



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 14 16:21:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 21:21:03 GMT
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
References: <mailman.1016077524.10400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6r47v$se8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:42:59 +0100, Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?= <gh_pythonlist at gmx.de> wrote:

>I have two lists of files (approx. 50000 entries). Now I want to have all the
>entries of list b, that are not in list a. However, the primitive:
>
>results = []
>for entry in b:
>    if entry not in a:
>        results.append(entry)
>
>is terribly slow. I mean *really* slow. Any recommendations on how to optimize
>this? Wouldn't it be nice if I could simply do b.removeall(a)?
>
>Gerhard
>-- 
>This sig powered by Python!
>Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 7.5 ?C      Wind: 0.9 m/s
>
Given the blist and alist,

 >>> def bnota(blist,alist):
 ...     bset={}
 ...     for b in blist:
 ...         bset[b]=1
 ...     for a in alist:
 ...         try:
 ...             del bset[a]
 ...         except KeyError:
 ...             pass
 ...     return bset.keys()
 ...
 >>> blist
 [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
 >>> alist
 [3, 5, 7]
 >>> bnota(blist,alist)
 [1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 9]
 >>>

I'm sure this could be optimized, but it's an
approach I didn't see in the thread yet.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 20:32:47 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:32:47 -0600
Subject: reporting spam? (was RE: 5 dollar emails)
In-Reply-To: <20020308011954.GA4417@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE6BC@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com>
        <20020308011954.GA4417@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <15496.5311.763137.104376@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> What happens with all the spam this group gets?  Does anyone bother
    >> forwarding it to spam-fighting agencies? [...]

    gh> SpamAssassin (one of the few P*rl programs I liked enough to
    gh> install) does the spam filtering for me and it does an amazingly
    gh> good job at it.  The spam (and a few false positives) getted tagged
    gh> and put in my caughtspam folder, which I review regularly.

It's those "few false positives" that mean you have to keep reviewing your
caughtspam folder.  If you had a few false negatives you'd be better off.  I
will plug Jason Mastaler's TMDA project here:

   http://software.libertine.org/tmda/

It's model of how spam should be treated is different than tools like
SpamAssassin and SpamBouncer.  It places the onus on the sender to confirm
that their mail is valid.  This works well against most spammers because
they generally don't reply to email.

TMDA has a very active community of developers and users.  It works with
several MTAs: sendmail, postfix, exim and qmail.  And it's written in Python
to boot.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 18 06:33:55 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:33:55 GMT
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
References: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list@python.org> <a71o2b.3vsbk85.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016402254.12742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u8z8qqf71.fsf@python.net>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes:

> > (2) distribution. If I want to distribute code that I'm developing, and I
> > use the latest CVS releases to develop my code, such that my code relies on
> > these CVS releases, how do I distribute code to others who are running the
> > standard 2.2 install?
> 
>    The simplest (though not the best) solution would be to distribute a
> copy of the email package with your code. You know, Python inserts the path
> to your application in the beginning of sys.path, so upon "import email"
> your copy of the package will be imported, and not standard package.

It may reduce hair-loss to call this package something else --
"xemail" or "myemail" or something like that.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Q: Isn't it okay to just read Slashdot for the links?
  A: No. Reading Slashdot for the links is like having "just one hit"
     off the crack pipe.
     -- http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html#faq


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 08:42:29 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:42:29 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "30 Mar 2002 12:37:42 +0100."
             <m3ofh6s2ux.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> 
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>  
            <m3ofh6s2ux.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> 
Message-ID: <200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> Interestingly enough, the exception message says "__nonzero__ should
> return an int" but really means "__nonzero__ must return an int".

You've been staring at standards too much, haven't you?  The
difference between MUST and SHOULD isn't as clear-cut as most
standards people use them.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar 28 18:09:39 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:09:39 -0500
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote ...
> philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote in message
news:<slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>...
> > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:
> > >Jim Dennis wrote:
> > >>         freq = {}
> > >>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
> > >>                         else:                           freq[word] =
1
>  >
> > >Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
> >
> > IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works
> > correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
> >
> > IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.
>
> Python *could* be made like that with the explict dict() constructor
> ... something like:
>
> freq = dict(default=0)
> ...
> freq[word] += 1

This was a feature of the Icon language. But Icon had no explicit literal
representation for dictionaries (or tables, as I think they were called) as
far as I can remember, so it was easy to make the default value an argument
to a constructor function. It's not obvious how you could indicate the
default without calling a method.

regards
 Steve






From jolsen at mailme.dk  Wed Mar  6 02:46:10 2002
From: jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 23:46:10 -0800
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com> <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net> <mailman.1015350252.26483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cf0ad9fb.0203052346.574a4ed4@posting.google.com>

Amen to that!

Separating platform independent & and platform specific modules would
be useful.

But I also think some of the modules do not really belong there,
and/or have the wrong set of methods in them.

Take audioop for instance. Doing audio operations inside python
can be very useful, but the set of methods in this package seem
to come from someones personal toolbox.

Forinstance there is a lin2ulaw() conversion function,
but no lin2alaw() function.
It has a few echo-cancelation functions, but are they really
useful in practice - rather than just illustrating the principle
of how echo cancellation can be done?
I think this type of functions belong in a much larger module,
perhaps build on top of Numeric.

Cheers
Jesper

NB
A search function might also be useful in addition to the index.
The Tutorials are great, but they are less suited as a "reference guide".


Andy Gimblett <gimbo at ftech.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015350252.26483.python-list at python.org>...
> If you're thinking about improvements to the organisation of
> www.python.org, I'd like to say that I think the module index at
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html
> 
> is getting bloated by platform-specific modules I don't need to know


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar  9 17:16:55 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 23:16:55 +0100
Subject: Tkinter error
References: <a6duuu$37a$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <m3bsdx9yjs.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jim Jacobs" <jim.jacobs at jacobshome.com> writes:

>    "self.tk = _tkinter.crate(screenName, baseName, className)
> TclError:  Can't find a usuable init.tcl in the following directories: [list
> of directories]"
> 
> Among the directories listed is the directory in which init.tcl is located.
> What gives?

It wasn't usable :-) I have no clue why this would happen, but I know
how to find out: use the source.

Regards,
Martin


From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Thu Mar  7 15:05:50 2002
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:05:50 GMT
Subject: hotmail
References: <mailman.1015526200.31004.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ofi0gn34.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

/ <brueckd at tbye.com> wrote:
| On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Bertrand Geston wrote:
| 
| > I would like to retrieve mails from Hotmail and I wonder if it is not
| > 'better' to use COM/DOM on Outlook express that can, if I am not mistaken,
| > retrieve mails from Hotmail using http requests. By 'better', I mean less
| > linked to the hotmail site layout (but OK linked to the Oultook DOM
| > interface) and probably quicker.
| 
| Last time I checked Outlook Express could do Hotmail but Outlook couldn't
| (well, it could if you count Outlook opening a browser window to the
| Hotmail site - very cheesy).

FYI The outlook in Office XP can do this.. 

        /Andy 

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 11:43:55 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:43:55 +0000
Subject: Message bug?
References: <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj@4ax.com> <slrna9hdu2.ec3.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <9peh9u81e5722mbtgaei2grngvcgu7g2al@4ax.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org> wrote:

>In article <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj at 4ax.com>, Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
>> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'work'
>> 
>> I have no module called 'module'. 
>
>It's printing the type of the offending object:
>
>>>> a.foo
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'foo'
>>>>
>
>I suppose the single quotes are a bit confusing; maybe they should
>just be removed.  Classes do better:
>
>>>> class C: pass
>...
>>>> c=C()
>>>> c.foo
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>AttributeError: C instance has no attribute 'foo'
>
>Reasonable.  But new-style classes bring the single quotes back:
>
>>>> class D(object): pass
>...
>>>> d=D()
>>>> d.foo
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>AttributeError: 'D' object has no attribute 'foo'

Oh. I see.

Hmm, that's fair enough, I guess. It would be nice to include the
module name, though. Use repr(modulename) to print it, maybe. That
would give a bit more info.

Thanks.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From tk at start.com.au  Fri Mar  1 18:45:48 2002
From: tk at start.com.au (Tony K)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:45:48 GMT
Subject: Stedents Question
Message-ID: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

The question below is a tutorial question that stumps me.  Any suggestions
would be appreciated.
Tony

Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as parameter
and returns all substrings thereof which match the regexp pattern ab+c. You
are NOT allowed to use the re module.




From jlh at cox.net  Mon Mar  4 18:50:51 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:50:51 GMT
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015277468.2249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vLTg8.37481$jC3.992351@news1.east.cox.net>

<James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015277468.2249.python-list at python.org...
>
> [Jeff Hinrichs]
> > How can one iterate over something that is not a
> > sequence/collection?
>
> By defining the method __iter__(self) to return an iterator object <wink>.
> Iterators are very useful and general-purpose.  No need to confine them
> just to sequences.
>
>
> > I haven't seen any argument on why range/xrange is less preferrable to
> iterable integers.
>
> The advantage that iter(n) has over range(n) and xrange(n) is that Python
> calls iter automatically.
>
>
> > I've heard the philosophical debate but not seen how python
> > would be better for this addition.  If a good, tangible case
> > were made I could be influenced.
> > It would have to be a stronger case than:
> > for i in 5:  is better than   for i in range(5):
> >     print i                       print i
>
> Please refer to the PEP.  There is a "rationale" section.  "for i in 5"
> happens to work and I would wager would become popular when typing into
the
> intepreter, for example.  But, it is not the motivating example in the
PEP.
>
>
> > **Not everything is an object.**
>
> Fortunately, in Python it is <wink>.
>
>
> > Numbers don't perform operations
>
> ... and they can <wink>
>
> >>> -3 .__abs__()
> -3
> >>>
>
>
> > It is not natural to consider a number as a collection of other
> > numbers.
>
> So don't consider that.  Just consider whether or not it would be useful
to
> get an iterator from a number <wink>.
Ok, so after 3 days of exposing myself as an object luddite, I think I
understand what is being asked for and why the proponents are so strongly in
favor of it.   I have officially upgraded my position to neutral on the
matter. (at this rate, I might be in the pro camp by Thursday <wink>) I
would like to thank everyone one (carel and james) for taking the time to
enlighten me (even if sometimes it requires a 2x4')

glad-I'm-not-an-iterable-object-ly'yrs,
-Jeff




From fgeiger at datec.at  Sun Mar 31 07:45:49 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:45:49 +0200
Subject: relational database?
References: <mailman.1017574728.22037.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8707g$hth$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

And if you want to access it in an OO fashion, go for Webware's MiddleKit,
which sits on top of MySQLdb.

Cheers
Franz

Michael Hall <olc at ninti.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
mailman.1017574728.22037.python-list at python.org...
>
> I find MySQL very easy to set up and use with Python (and PHP).
> All you need is the MySQLdb module ... easy to install and use.
>
> Mick
>
>
>
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Trung Hoang wrote:
>
> > What relational database is easy to setup and use with python? besides
msql
> > (im having some problems)
> >
> > Cheeeers..
> > trungie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> -----------------------------
> Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
> -----------------------------
>
>




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Mar 30 08:13:21 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 05:13:21 -0800
Subject: Data type ideas
References: <mailman.1017469191.15784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203300513.7f03f4c4@posting.google.com>

"Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragoncat.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017469191.15784.python-list at python.org>...
> HI all, got a new problem :)
> 
> I have a tab delimited file of people plus a list of groups they belong 
> to like so:
> 
> Person 1  Group A
>                Group B
> Person 2  Group B
> Person 3  Group A
>                Group C
> 
> So basically a person can be part of one of more groups.  I'm looking to 
> process this list so that I can take each group and examine the list of 
> people in it.  Basically turn the list into:
> 
> Group A Person 1
>              Person 3
> Group B Person 1
>              Person 2
> 
> The drawback I have to all this is, the file I'm working is pretty big: 
> about 40 megs. A majority of the file is going to be extraneous data 
> that I have weeded out with regular expressions but it is still a large 
> data file.

You need to gather some basic facts: How much memory do you have?
After you have weeded out the rubbish, how many persons? how many
groups? presuming person-ids and group-ids are strings, what are
average lengths? what other data (number of items, average sizes) do
you need/want to keep for each person? Do you know before reading the
file the maximum number of groups there are?

If no extra data, one possibility is a bitmap indexed by person number
and group number. However I'm finding it hard to see why you can't
handle 40Mb in memory -- the average office/home PC seems to have
256Mb these days of which roughly half seems to be available for real
use.

And ... you can always do an external sort. In fact this exercise
looks like it could be done on a 1960s computer with 96Kb of memory,
no disc and 4 or more magnetic tape drives.

Polyphase-oscillatingly y'rs,
John


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 23:57:47 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:57:47 -0500
Subject: Iterating over unicode strings
References: <3C8C3136.9050507@sharma-home.net> <3C8C3258.9030200@sharma-home.net>
Message-ID: <3C8C394B.D3F0447A@engcorp.com>

Arun Sharma wrote:
>
> I would like to iterate over the following unicode string one character
> at a time.
>
> line = u"??????|| ?????????????????? ???????????????"
> for c in line:
>     print c
>
> fails miserably. What is the right way to do it ? I would also like to
> be able to slice the string i.e. line[i] to get the i'th character.

Please post tracebacks when asking questions like this, to help us
troubleshoot.  

The print statement seems to want to print ASCII characters only, but
you are feeding it Unicode.  You might try the following to see what
you're up against:

for c in line:
    print ord(c)

You'll see (I believe) that some of the values are greater than 127,
and the print statement is trying to convert the values to ASCII.
If you specify an encoding for the data you might see something.
For example, print line.encode('utf7') ... or line.encode('iso-8859-3').
Depends what you are trying to do.  If you are trying to iterate
over every character and do something useful with it, but just
thought you'd test the loop by printing, then get rid of the print
and trust that the line is being iterated properly. :)

There's no reason you can't index into the string like line[i]
(note, that is not slicing) or even slice it with line[3:5], but
you can't use print on the result without further processing.

-Peter


From brian at lodoss.org  Wed Mar 13 01:17:14 2002
From: brian at lodoss.org (Brian)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 22:17:14 -0800
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8fc4b19e.0203122217.20d9f78@posting.google.com>

Scott,

Someone already pointed out the off by 1 error, but there's something
else that's getting you as well:

...
if number/checking == int(number/checking):
...

In your code, neither number or checking are floats; the result of
number/checking is not a float.

I'm still pretty new at Python myself, so there's probably a simpler
way to do this, but changing one of the ranges to floats:

>>> for number in range(1,50):
	number = float(number)
	factorsum = 0
	halfnumber = number / 2
	for checking in range(1,halfnumber+1):
		if number/checking == round(number/checking):
			factorsum = factorsum + checking
	if number == factorsum:
		print number

		
6.0
28.0
>>> 
...seems to produce the result you were looking for.


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 20:33:08 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:33:08 -0000
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015290310.3794.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8882k.t57.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <mailman.1015290310.3794.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:
>> No, it happens on OpenBSD 2.7 also.
>>
>> Python 2.2 (#2, Feb  3 2002, 18:27:17)
>> [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on openbsd2
> 
> I don't understand your "no":  the output shows that Python was built using
> GCC 2.95.2, yet you're claiming this does *not* use glibc?  gcc and glibc go
> together like Guido and Van Rossum <wink>.

Um, no, there is no connection between gcc and glibc (apart from the
first letter). As far as I am aware, all the free BSDs use gcc, and
none of them use glibc.


From svbrk at start.no  Sat Mar  9 19:03:19 2002
From: svbrk at start.no (Svein Brekke)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 16:03:19 -0800
Subject: TkInter/McMillan installer question.
Message-ID: <21298535.0203091603.337835a@posting.google.com>

Hi there. I've got a Tkinter application for portuguese vocabulary
training, and I'm trying to distribute it through McMillans installer.
The installer is excellent except for one problem I have not been able
to solve. Could anyone please help me?

My configuration is: Win2KPro, python 2.2b1, McMillan installer 5
alpha1

Concider the following program (call it test.py):

--8<-------------------------------8<-----------------------------
import Tkinter # I have also tried: ,unicodedata,codecs
root = Tkinter.Tk()
e = Tkinter.Entry(root)
e.pack()
e.focus_force()
def on_return(x):
  print 'on_return: ords = ['+','.join([str(ord(x)) for x in
e.get()])+'],',
  print 'str = "'+e.get().encode('Latin-1')+'"'
  root.quit() 
root.bind('<Return>',on_return)
root.mainloop()
--8<-------------------------------8<-----------------------------

When I run it with
~> python test.py
from the shell, types an ? (a with ?) into the entry and presses
return, the program runs well (writes somthing like "ord = [225], str
= ?")

The problem is: When I run McMillan installer on this, generate and
run test.exe, and then insert the ? and press return, the program
raises an exception:
>  Exception in Tkinter callback
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "C:\usr\python\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1292, in __call__
>      return apply(self.func, args)
>    File "<string>", line 8, in on_return
>  UnicodeError: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

What should I do to make unicode work well with the installer? Has
anybody seen something similar? Could anyone please reproduce on their
own system?

I'd be greatful for any help! My application is ment for
non-computer-experts, and requiring to install python would prevent
many potential users from trying it.

thanx in advance
Svein Brekke



PS: pasting the following into make_exe.py, would run the installer of
the program (McMillan installer is in $pythondir/tools/Installer):
8<----------------------------------------------------
import os,os.path
os.system('python '+os.getenv('pythondir')+'/tools/installer/Configure.py')
os.system('python '+os.getenv('pythondir')+'/tools/installer/makespec.py
 \
    --onefile --tk --out . test.py')
os.system('python '+os.getenv('pythondir')+\
    '/tools/installer/Build.py test.spec')
os.system('rm -rf *.spec warntest* buildtest tk.pkg')
print 'Created ',
os.system('ls -l test.exe')


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 00:33:29 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:33:29 -0800
Subject: list vs. dict
References: <3C7CF0EE.3010009@vscht.cz> <3C7CFAF8.1080108@mxm.dk> <Xgaf8.10287$pC1.1854469@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3C7E8D47.21BE30B3@ccvcorp.com> <eppstein-3B013E.13102528022002@news.service.uci.edu> <3C7F0CD3.E70832BB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <eppstein-85290B.21332928022002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C7F0CD3.E70832BB at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>,
 Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> I don't have a recent enough Python at my fingertips
> to check, but I think
> 
>   if (x,y) in dict
> 
> does the same thing nowadays.

You're right!
Every time I see something like this I like the language design more.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 19 11:45:59 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:45:59 -0500
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203191117090.11793-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENLOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Steven Majewski]
> I got the same on my osx build.
> Specifically: math.sqrt( -1 ) returns NaN.

Please email your results to Michael Hudson.

> When I do:
> 	import fpectl
> 	fpectl.turnon_sigfpe()
> I get:
> 	'Operation not implemented'
>
>
> Are those two connected?

The fpectl module tries to fiddle with HW fp exception masks, in necessarily
platform-specific ways.  Whether your platform libm pays attention to the
setting of HW fp exception masks depends entirely on your platform, but
fpectl doesn't know how to set them on your platform anyway.  IOW, if you
taught fpectl how to enable HW fp exceptions, it's still a crapshoot whether
your libm sqrt would raise a HW fp exception in this case.  In any case,
Python never relies on fpectl by default, so even if fpectl did know how to
fiddle your platform's flags, and your platform libm played along, it still
wouldn't make any difference unless you explicitly turned on fpectl
yourself.




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Mon Mar 11 03:06:35 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:06:35 +0900
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C8BBED3.D947EE5E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <poZi8.8$ID.55@news.hananet.net>

Peter Hansen scribbled with his keyboard:

> phil hunt wrote:
>> 
>> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:21:39 GMT, Gerson Kurz <gerson.kurz at t-online.de>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >!0,1.!1,1.!2,1.!3,1.,.@?0.!4,?0.!0,?1.~4,?0.!1,?4.~2,?3.!5,?2.A5,10.-5
>> >
>> >will print the first ten fibonacci numbers.
>> 
>> I wonder what it does in Perl?
> 
> Obviously it's a multithreading web server.

I hereby nominate this for a quote-of-the-week.

"Obviously it's a multithreaded web server."

Jonathan



From grante at visi.com  Tue Mar 26 17:59:00 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:59:00 GMT
Subject: Deeply embedded Python still alive?
References: <SX1o8.573$vm6.188350@ruti.visi.com> <a7qtqg$u3f$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <U27o8.610$vm6.225166@ruti.visi.com>

In article <a7qtqg$u3f$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:10:10 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
> 
>>The link I have for the Deeply Embedded Python port
>><http://www.abo.fi/~iporres/python/> has been broken for
>>several months now.  Anybody know what happened to that
>>project?
> 
> If the author lurks, he may volunteer something? If he doesn't,
> keep chopping the tail of the url 'til you get contact info? If
> you find something, I'd be interested too. How does it compare
> to Pippy (linked on python.org home page)?

Further googling found this paper describing the project:

  http://www.tucs.fi/Magazin/Page.cgi?ID=2000.N2.LilDeEmPy

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Here I am in the
                                  at               POSTERIOR OLFACTORY LOBULE
                               visi.com            but I don't see CARL SAGAN
                                                   anywhere!!


From WDraxinger at darkstargames.de  Mon Mar 11 17:01:48 2002
From: WDraxinger at darkstargames.de (WDraxinger at darkstargames.de)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:01:48 +0100
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <m3lmczavog.fsf@salesman.cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <a6j9gf$5fm$1@suaar1aa.prod.compuserve.com>

"Christopher Browne" <cbbrowne at acm.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:m3lmczavog.fsf at salesman.cbbrowne.com...
> In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, drevenhaug at hotmail.com
(Graz Bukanoff) transmitted:
> > Is Python an object based programming langauge?
>
> Most languages involve manipuation of some form of "object," so that
> even COBOL could be claimed to be an "object based programming
> language."
>
> You might want to be more specific about what you mean by "object,"
> otherwise people could say "yes" or "no" with equal legitimacy as they
> intend different meanings of "object."

I think, this statement relies on the fact, that everything in python
ia a Object in the term of an OOP language. Look at the C/C++ API.
Here you've always to deal with a special PyObject* type, that's
always the black box, that makes an variable an object. Data can only
manipulated through special access functions. Since that must also
work with pure C these functions must not be part of the PyObject *,
but the rest of OOP is there.

> --
> (reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn@" "enworbbc"))
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/wp.html




From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 17:20:36 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 14:20:36 -0800
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com> <83hendkou7.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203191420.65bb475@posting.google.com>

Kragen Sitaker <kragen at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<83hendkou7.fsf at panacea.canonical.org>...
> sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) writes:
> > o Developments like psyco should be encouraged and supported because
> >   ultimately accelerating python is a good thing: it takes away one 
> >   usual criticism of those who have _never tried_ to develop in 
> >   python. For those who have, the productivity benefits, of course,
> >   by far outweigh any so-called 'performance' issues.
> 
> This is unjustifiably glib.  Lots of programs don't need to run fast.
> Some programs do need to run fast.  Some programs justify significant
> work to get them to run fast.  Accelerating Python is a good thing not
> because of "so-called 'performance issues", but because in some cases,
> there really *are* performance issues that rule Python out.

I don't disagree with you except on the glibness part (-; Perhaps if I
elaborate on the unapparent context of this remark you may see were it
came from: a colleague of mine started raving about python recently,
and now wants to incorporate the jython implementation into his
developments efforts. He explained that he had resisted using python
because he had 'heard somewhere' that it was slow... After actually
giving the language a shot he changed his mind.

I'm not denying that pure python may not be appropriate for certain
applications which require maximum performance, but that's why you
have numerous ways to glue optimized parts into the nicely high-level
whole.

python wouldn't be python without this marvelous extensibility...

regards,

Sandy


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  2 00:29:38 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:29:38 -0500
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net> <a5obj3$18di$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <%8Wf8.518$Az6.2357@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <3C806342.E28D1ED0@engcorp.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> 
> There would be a big benefit to see something like:
> 
> res = chmod("-c", "-R", "u=rwx,g=rx,o=", a_file, another_file, a_directory)

Is that anything like

 os.system('chmod -c -R u=rwx,g=rx,o= %s %s %s' % (a_file, another_file, a_directory)) 

??

If so, why are you trying to rebuild the unix shell within Python?
(Or what am I missing?)

-Peter


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Thu Mar  7 13:41:01 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:41:01 +0100
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
In-Reply-To: <20020308002819.GA1571@blackscarab>
References: <20020308002819.GA1571@blackscarab>
Message-ID: <20020307184101.GA1748@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 07/03/02 ? 19:28, stefan antoni ?crivit:
> sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know the
> name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
> problem is also in german.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=goat+car+puzzle

> i want to write this basic code in python:
> http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:Uugc3CH9SOQC:home.spektracom.de/ellrich/Ziegen.htm+ziegenproblem+basic+programm&hl=de
> 
> i am still going to school, and we talked about this problem in a math
> lesson. since i haven't got a basic-interpreter, i'd like to translate
> this code into python, but i don't understand the code.
> 
> anybody who knows basic and python as well?

Yes, me. And looking at this crappy BASIC code makes me sick :-(

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 10.0 ?C      Wind: 5.0 m/s



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar  7 12:24:10 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 17:24:10 GMT
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org> <a666k1$2km$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8f8hp.n0i.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a666k1$2km$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>, Fernando P?rez wrote:
> Let me add to your list distutils. They are nice but need a fair amount of 
> work. Projects such as PyXML and SciPy have ended up writing a lot of 
> wraparound utility code basically to provide functionality which it would be 
> nice to have in the core system (useful to all). So one more for the list of 

Well, someone should actually contribute those changes back to
Distutils; they can't improve without patches.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
... see the sun set in the hand of the man ...
    -- Rachel, in SANDMAN #3: "Dream a Little Dream of Me"


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 11 10:10:33 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:10:33 GMT
Subject: Changing Working Directory in Windows
References: <3c8cb05d.221547919@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <JN3j8.184440$7a1.16066563@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

<nrk at cmcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3c8cb05d.221547919 at news.earthlink.net...
> I'm brand new to Python.  Can someone tell me how to change a
working
> directory in a script on a Windows system?
>
> What does the pathname specification look like?
> Can I use an absolute path name when referring to a file?

Look at the os and path modules (ntpath for Windows).

Note that you *can* use forward slashes in filenames for the Windows
API functions that you access thru the above two modules.  This avoids
having to worry about doubling backslashes.

You may have problems with the way Windows fiddles with upper/lower
case.

Terry J. Reedy





From tismer at tismer.com  Mon Mar  4 09:26:54 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:26:54 +0100
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com>
Message-ID: <3C83842E.1050808@tismer.com>

Frederic Giacometti wrote:

> 
> Aahz Maruch wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Just reverse the paradigm: have the python VM run in a single thread,
>>>using stackless microthreads for python multithreading, and run the C
>>>calls in a pool of threads.  This way: no lock is needed, since only
>>>one thread runs the VM, with the help of microthreads, and C calls run
>>>in other threads.
>>>
>>This doesn't make any sense unless you assume OS-level threads, and I
>>thought part of the point of Stackless was to avoid requiring OS-level
>>threads.
>>
> 
> More precisely, the point of stackless is to dispense from OS threads (and Python
> lock) overheads for running threaded Python bytecode.
> However, OS threads are still required to take charge of calls to blocking C
> function (usually from external C libraries) that one want to run asynchronously
> to the PVM; there is no turn around to this.


Makes pretty much sense to me.
Stackless can provide light-weight threads to all platforms.
There is no need to use OS threads unless you need it
for I/O.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
      where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Wed Mar 27 13:41:13 2002
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:41:13 GMT
Subject: Memory Error while simulating matrix
References: <d65d1805.0203252138.571d5708@posting.google.com> <mailman.1017140920.7028.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ca211c5.431726423@news>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:08:49 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>
>    slick> When i execute the code(part of an algorithm code) given below, i
>    slick> get a MemoryError.
>
>    row = []                # list 
>    row = [0] * 1000000     # each row contains million columns 
>    matrix =[]              # contains a collection of rows  
>
>    for i in range(1000):   # creating a matix of 1000 rows each 
>      matrix.append(row[:]) # having a million  columns
>
>You are trying to create 1,000 lists, each with 1,000,000 elements, or 10**9
>4-byte object pointers, so at minimum you will be chewing 4GB of virtual
>memory, probably much more once your matrix becomes a bit less uniform.  To
>keep from getting a MemoryError you should have at least that much swap
>space.  Actually much more. 

??? The memory in the swap file is still part of the virtual 32-bit
memory space, right? I don't see how a person could use more than
4GB of memory, regardless of whether it's virtual or not, on a
32-bit system. (Or 2GB on Windows, cuz it wants to reserve 2GB
for its own purposes...)

> Integer overhead is 12 bytes per object.
>(Float overhead is 16 bytes per object.)  Assuming most of the elements of
>your matrix are not recycled integers between -1 and 100, your memory
>consumption will be closer to 20GB than 4GB.
>
>Obviously, you can use the array module or NumPy.  Both of those are going
>to push the memory consumption closer to the 4GB end of things.
>
>-- 
>Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
>


David C. Ullrich


From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 07:54:16 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:54:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BF7C2D.17575706032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <a67nto$s1p$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

David Eppstein wrote:

> It's hard to tell without some context (and I'm not convinced a context 
> exists in which this is the loop you want), but if I had to write this 
> loop, without further information on where n came from or whether it's 
> odd or even, I'd probably skip the range() and go for:
> 
>     x = n - 1
>     while x >= 0:
>         ...loop body...
>         x -= 2
> 
> of course, that requires more care about not continuing from the middle 
> of the loop, and you have to look multiple places to even figure out 
> that it's a loop over a progression of integers, but even so I think 
> it's preferable to range(n-1,-1,-2).

I'd still use a range because of all the times I forgot the last line in a 
construct like that, and ended up in a perpetual loop.  If I were going to 
do this sort of thing a lot, adding

def inclusive(start, end, step=1):
        if start<=end:
                return xrange(start, end+1, abs(step))
        else:
                return xrange(start, end-1, -abs(step))

to my utilities library (along with indices()) would be a lot less 
overhead than changing the language.

>>> inclusive(1,10)
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> inclusive(10,1)
[10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1]
>>> inclusive(0,10,2)
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10]
>>> inclusive(10,0,2)
[10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 0]

This can give you all the generality of the PEP if you write

for lower op1 var op2 upper:
    ...

as

for var in inclusive(lower, upper):
    if lower op1 var op2 upper:
        ...

which is more verbose but barely less readable.


                      Graham
             
         <http://www.microtonal.co.uk/>


From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Mon Mar  4 10:54:58 2002
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 16:54:58 +0100
Subject: Memory leak when importing?
Message-ID: <yv2it8cwcod.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

I have a strange effect with python 2.0 and 2.1. A C-module of mine
calls via

  PyObject_CallObject(callable, args);

a function defined in a script. This function again does an 

  import re

When the function is called over and over again, the python-process
allocates more and more memory. When I comment out just the
import-statement, the leaky behaviour is gone.

I am able to comment out the import-statement because I trimmed the
function down for debugging to not use it any more.

For comparison, I tried 

  def doit():
    import re

but this does not leak. Consequently my C-module might be the reason.

Any ideas? Rough guesses?
  Harald Kirsch

P.S.: I know that importing within a function is not the best thing to
do. 

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From Steven.dot.Suchting. at computer.dot.org  Tue Mar 19 09:44:33 2002
From: Steven.dot.Suchting. at computer.dot.org (StevenViCy)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:44:33 GMT
Subject: [wxPython 2.3.1] what's going on?
References: <a775l6$kro$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <3C974ED1.7538CA0B@computer.dot.org>

Not a problem for me either.
(Windows95, Python 2.2, wxPython 2.3.2.1)

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import math
>>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
1.7155277699214135
>>> from wxPython.wx import *
>>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
1.7155277699214135
>>>

Pawel Oleksik wrote:

> Hi Snakes Tamers!
>
> Playing with wxPython modules I've found something -- perhaps bug.
> Importing from wxPython.wx changes the calculation rules.
> Here is an example (strictly based on the random.py self-verification):
>
> (Linux, glibc-2.2.5, wxGTK-2.3.1, wxPython-2.3.1)
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 26 2001, 02:52:19)
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import math
> >>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
> 1.7155277699214135
> >>> from wxPython.wx import *
> >>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
> 2,8284271247461898
>
> Has anybody met this problem, or it's just my 'private reslult' :)
>
> best regards
> p.o.



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Mar 15 23:18:21 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 04:18:21 GMT
Subject: Disabling rexec for ActiveScripting in Local Intranet Zone?
References: <a6q3hf$2br$1@nixe.ISAR.net> <3C912376.7020902@skippinet.com.au> <a6saj7$isv$1@nixe.ISAR.net> <u93v2m5ct8748f@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3C92C792.6060406@skippinet.com.au>

John Roth wrote:
> "Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:a6saj7$isv$1 at nixe.ISAR.net...
> 
>>Mark Hammond wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have no idea :)  I would expect that if
>>>IE has set security approriately, then Python
>>> would not operate under rexec at all - this is
>>>certainly what happens for WScript and ASP.
>>
>>It doesn't. Is there a way to manually
>>disable rexec? (Like, patching lib/rexec.py).
>>
>>
>>>What version of win32all?
>>
>>win32all-146.exe for python2.2
> 
> 
> Correct my occasionally faulty memory, but wasn't there
> a bug report on this, and the feature was withdrawn until
> the sandbox (?) could be fixed properly?

Yes - and there is *still* an outstanding bug there :(

I assume (and hope and pray) that, for use in IE, the OP had to manually 
execute pyscript_rexec.py.  If this is not the case, then I will sob 
uncontrollably :)

To disable rexec, open pyscript.py and locate the following block:
	def RegisterNamedItem(self, item):
		if self.rexec_env is None:
			if self.safetyOptions:
				# Use RExec.
				self.rexec_env = AXRExec(self.globalNameSpaceModule)
			else:
				# DONT use RExec.
				self.rexec_env = AXNotRExec(self.globalNameSpaceModule)




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 21 00:24:24 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:24:24 +0100
Subject: Java and Python
In-Reply-To: <3C996234.9090506@verizon.net>
References: <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list@python.org> <A2F124616A415A90.905029C2E4C51EB9.602FB306F71F6138@lp.airnews.net> <3C996234.9090506@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20020321052424.GA4522@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Rich Salz <r.salz at verizon.net> [2002-03-21 04:31 +0000]:
> 
> 
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> >I'm still looking for a way to get this point across:  the
> >answer to many questions is, "There's no such thing."  No
> >one plays the role for Python that Sun plays for Java.
> 
> Hmm..  Both provide a reference implementation, both provide a community 
> process for suggesting improvements (but still retain the right to do 
> what they think best)...  what's missing?
 
Both just are 'infrastructure' for the company behind them, they don't
make money directly from it.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))



From boud at valdyas.org  Tue Mar  5 06:13:33 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:13:33 -0100
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <3c8087eb$0$18514$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl> <a5415304.0203042144.805e13@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c848d1a$0$90054$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>

Ron Stephens wrote:

> I saw your upcoming book, and trhat was a factor in my considering to
> buy Black Adder. I wasn't aware it was already available ;-)))

No, Joshua from Opendocs has promised a big splash, with announcements
and stuff... But today his website isn't even updated, and that's the
only place you can buy it, since it still hasn't made it to Amazon.

But if you go to https://secure.linuxports.com/cart/, you can buy it
all-right, and it'll get sent you with all commendable speed.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From arun-public at sharma-home.net  Sun Mar 10 23:28:31 2002
From: arun-public at sharma-home.net (Arun Sharma)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:28:31 GMT
Subject: Iterating over unicode strings
Message-ID: <3C8C3136.9050507@sharma-home.net>

I would like to iterate over the following unicode string one character 
at a time.

line = u"??|| ?????? ?????"
for c in line:
     print c

fails miserably. What is the right way to do it ? I would also like to 
be able to slice the string i.e. line[i] to get the i'th character.

Thanks in advance,

	-Arun



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 07:33:56 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:33:56 +0000
Subject: Dictionary Comprehension
Message-ID: <3mbe9usoufc2f5ppjmk7lh6ks71pgb45f9@4ax.com>

What ever happened to the idea of dictionary comprehension discussed
(well, mentioned in a timid whisper) in the middle of last year?

I'm doing some dictionary work right now where I keep seeing all sorts
of neat applications for the idea.

I'd really like a concise way to work on a filtered subset of a
dictionary.

--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 03:37:14 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
References: <6c80b2a1.0203070848.6a25b499@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91CAB1E35E70Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

ken at ineffable.com (Ken Causey) wrote in 
news:6c80b2a1.0203070848.6a25b499 at posting.google.com:

> I'm running into a problem with sgmllib in Python 2.1.2 with tags of
> the form:
> 
><![blah]> where 'blah' could be anything.
> 
This is mostly just a 'me too' post, but I have recently been running into 
the same problem. I have a script I use to clean up 'html' produced by 
Microsoft Word and these days I have to preprocess the html to remove the 
bad directives.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 17 21:47:04 2002
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:47:04 GMT
Subject: Online Pythonic web spider back up and runnning
Message-ID: <3C9555C0.B27FFA8C@earthlink.net>

My web hosting company decided to change everything while I was out of
the country ;-((.

Anyway, the auto updating of the new pythonic web articles is now
working again.

Ron Stephens
http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 13 19:12:42 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:12:42 -0600
Subject: possible string.strip memory leakage
In-Reply-To: <3C8FE73D.3A03C085@mitre.org>
References: <3C8FE73D.3A03C085@mitre.org>
Message-ID: <15503.60154.162030.952665@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Mike> There might be a memory leak in string.strip. 

I'm skeptical.  Post code. <0.3 wink>

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From nas at python.ca  Mon Mar 25 14:33:23 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:33:23 -0800
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEGFOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>; from tim.one@comcast.net on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 12:25:15AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325111055.044fbd08@202.95.131.154> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEGFOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020325113323.A26319@glacier.arctrix.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> No.  len([f(x) for x in y]) == len(y) whenever no exception occurs,
> regardless of the form of f() or type of y.

Looks like the bot needs a bugfix:

    >>> def f():
    ...   for x in range(10):
    ...     yield x
    ... 
    >>> len(f)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: len() of unsized object
    >>> len([int(x) for x in f()])
    10

Hmm, should len() should work on pure iterators?

  Neil



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar  7 19:36:39 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 00:36:39 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:46:03 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:a67ehl$uhi$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> How does it seem if you go along the steps I took?:
>>
>>  1. You have an arbitrary sequence of characters that are to be
>>  the value of a string.
>>  2. The sequence may contain both ''' and """ and may even end
>>  with \ and it must be unchanged.
>>  3. (2) Means you need a different delimiter than " or ' or """ or
>'''.
>
>Since (3) does not follow from (2), it seems like this proposal is
>unnecessary.  Strings read from a file (this includes raw_input() from
>users) already meet desiderata 1 and 2.
>
Sorry, I wasn't making clear an unspoken condition I really had in mind ;-)
I think (3) does follow (2) using the added explicit condition that the
text quotation is to be part of the source text of a program or module,
and the quoted text must not need to be changed or restricted to do it.

>>>> s=raw_input('Hi: ')
>Hi: Python delimiters include ', ", ''', """, and \
>>>> print s
>Python delimiters include ', ", ''', """, and \
>
This violates my unspoken condition, but certainly i/o can get you whatever.

> In the extremely rare case in which one really *needs* all 4 string
>delimiters within a single string and the string *must* get its value
>from a programmer-writter string literal rather than a file, one can
>use octal escapes (or \\ for \).
>
This also violates the unspoken condition ;-)
The problem to solve is not constructing an arbitrary-valued string
by writing an escaped sequence adhering to current python string syntax.
That can be done, as you show.

The problem is to do it by using an existing source of text, without
changing the text, and without using an external file to delimit it.

The simplest practical example is wanting to use a paste operation
to insert arbitrary text into a program source without having to inspect
the text or modify it, yet be able to use it to define a string
with the exact raw text value.

Show me how to do that, and I'll be convinced there is no need for
string-delimited quotation.

>>>> print """Python's string delimiters are ', ", ''', and
>\042\042\042."""
>Python's string delimiters are ', ", ''', and """.
>>>> print '''Python's string delimiters are ', ", \047\047\047, and
>""".'''
>Python's string delimiters are ', ", ''', and """.
>
Sorry for not being clear. I guess that's what this discussion process
is for. It's clarifying the issues for me too ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 16:34:26 2002
From: nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk (Nick)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:34:26 -0000
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <a6dv55$phu$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

How do you get the ordinal value (ASCII) of a character? For example, to
make a ROT13 program.




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Mon Mar 25 05:02:39 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 10:02:39 GMT
Subject: using os.execl to call a java application
References: <3C9D66E9.4070802@northwestern.edu> <83663l56qt.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9tt2j.94.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <83663l56qt.fsf at panacea.canonical.org>, Kragen Sitaker wrote:
> Louis Luangkesorn <lluang at northwestern.edu> writes:
>>   File "C:\docs\gmcode\prob4.py", line 74, in findrqsim
>>     os.path('c:\\docs\\ibmmodelswitch')
>> TypeError: object of type 'module' is not callable
> 
> os.path is a module.  I think you meant os.chdir, not os.path.
> 
> You should consider writing your paths as 'c:/docs/ibmmodelswitch' so
> you don't have to double backslash.

To avoid the double backslash, you can use raw strings, like r"c:\bla\blubs".

Gerhard


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar  5 10:16:34 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:16:34 +0100
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015314249.8983.python-list@python.org> <625h8.3294$tg2.206482@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3C84E152.5000705@bigfoot.de>

Robert Oschler wrote:
> Gerhard,
> 
> Excellent!!!  Never expected to find a language that could do this ...

Hmm. Java 1.4 comes close, but not quite. The StackTraceElement class 
gives you access to the class name from the stack frame, but not the 
calling instance. Guess that's even for a reason as it would probably 
undermine the Java security model.

Anyways, cool trick. Maybe I'll use it some day :-)

Gerhard



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 10:13:13 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:13:13 +0000
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>
Message-ID: <slrna99ck9.v8.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:45:30 +0300, Jeffrey-man <i-have at no.mail> wrote:
>Hello, everybody!
>I'm a newbie and I'm just learning. I know, it's a stupid question, but I
>want to resolve it.
>Learning the Begginers Guide, I found an exercise. It tells me:
>"Write a program that continually reads in numbers from the user and adds
>them together until the sum reaches 100."
>Can anybody help me?
>
> -----
>
>sum_stop = 100
>num = input("Please enter the number: ")
>
>for sum in range(num+num,sum_stop):
>    print "Now the sum is", num+num
>    sleep(1)
>
>print "The sum is >/= 100!"
>
> -----
>
>Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Yes. Firstly you are only asking for a number once. You need to 
keep asking until the total is >= 100. So:

sum_stop = 100 
num = input("Enter number: ")


But that's no good, because the 2nd line needs to keep executing:

sum_stop = 100
while 1:
   num = input("Enter number: ")

Now you need to add up the total:

sum_stop = 100
total = 0
while 1:
   num = input("Enter number: ")
   total = total + num
   print "Total so far is %d" % total


But this still doesn't work, because there is no exit from the 
loop, so:


sum_stop = 100
total = 0
while 1:
   num = input("Enter number: ")
   total = total + num
   print "Total so far is %d" % total
   if total >= sum_stop: break


Which does the job.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 13 19:52:56 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:52:56 -0500
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk> <20020313092857.4765dd0d.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net> <mailman.1016045632.17813.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FF468.408183B2@engcorp.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> There are plenty of free C compilers for Windows: mingw, Borland,
> lcc-win32. lcc-win32 even comes with an IDE.
> 
> If you dig long enough on the Microsoft site, you can (at least you
> could at one time) even download a commandline version of the MS
> compiler. 

As best I recall, that version is wholly unsuitable for real production
use.  I believe it is the version without optimization (not the
"professional" edition) and the code it produces, when last I looked,
is _significantly_ larger and slower than the real version.

Okay for hacking, not for shipping.

-Peter


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Mon Mar 25 11:28:09 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:28:09 GMT
Subject: Office 2000 COM AddIns in Python?
Message-ID: <3c9f4f39.11385515@news.t-online.de>

Has anybody made a python COM server that implements IDTExtensibility2
and can be loaded from Microsoft Office? Google doesn't find much
python-related for this. 


From john at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 02:14:20 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:14:20 GMT
Subject: question on slices
References: <mailman.1017097419.25311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ku70augts42ikg73dt3m8u4fsc39nuicul@4ax.com>

This makes sense and cleared it up.
Thanx

Rob



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:00:29 -0500, Michael Chermside
<mcherm at destiny.com> wrote:

>>>>> numlist[1:2]
>> [1]
>> 
>> This last one doesnt make since to me since i am asking for a range
>> from 1-2.  Why in the world does it give me 1 when i am asking for 1-2
>> which would logically be:
>> 
>>>>> numlist[1:2]
>> [1, 2]
>> 
>> but it's not. it doesnt make since.  Just seems strange when i just
>> was in a C++ class and it would do the logical thing.
>> 
>
>Actually, this *IS* doing the "logical" thing, but only once you get 
>into certain Python mindsets.
>
>In Python, all ranges are "half-open". That means that the lower end 
>point IS included, but the upper end point is not. You've encountered 
>this pattern before in C++:
>
>      for( int i=0; i<MAX; i++ )
>
>In that code, i will actually be 0, but it will NOT actually be MAX... 
>it gets no higher than MAX-1. This is the "standard" way to loop through 
>a list of length MAX in C++, and in Python it is the "standard" way to 
>do EVERYTHING... loops:
>
>      for x in range(10)   # Goes 0, 1, 2, ... 8, 9
>
>slices:
>
>      mylist[:10]     # Gives [ mylist[0], mylist[1], ... mylist[9] ]
>
>and a few other places which don't occur to me immediately.
>
>So Python has the wonderful advantage of being consistant.
>
>You could now start a whole debate about whether "half-open" is the best 
>rule to use... "closed" is the other popular option. I think you'll find 
>that "half-open" is a good choice, because it allows things like this:
>
>      first = mylist[:47]
>      last  = mylist[47:]
>
>which splits mylist into two parts, and doesn't skip or repeat any 
>elements. But what I really want to do is brag about the consistance, 
>not re-open the "half-open" vs "closed" debate again.
>
>-- Michael Chermside
>
>PS: Whoah! how early were YOU to be able to grab "john at yahoo.com" ? !
>
>



From jpabis1 at purdue.edu  Tue Mar  5 01:13:40 2002
From: jpabis1 at purdue.edu (James)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:13:40 -0500
Subject: Python Help - Splash Screen
Message-ID: <a61nmv$bhi$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>

I need code for a "splash screen" that displays a gif/jpg/bmp for 5 seconds
then disappears. I've tried tkwait, time.sleep(5), and a few other things
but can't seem to get any of them to do what I want! Can anyone help me?
Thanks everyone!!


JP




From nospam at bigfoot.com  Thu Mar 21 12:59:58 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:59:58 +0100
Subject: HTTP session objects
References: <ed6d1c1a.0203210909.70d36a32@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7d6ku$2dk0$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Have a look at this...
http://archaeopteryx.com/opensource/httpsession
Session data management within Python CGI apps (cookie based)

Otherwise, the latest Zope version has session data management capabilities.

Dunno for other Web server frameworks.

"A M" <aseem at neurobs.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
ed6d1c1a.0203210909.70d36a32 at posting.google.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Does python have the ability to r/w and use HTTP session objects like
> servlets. Is there a third party tool or API available to allow us to
> use it in Python.
>
> Any help or references to resources will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> A




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Mar 15 06:27:16 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 22:27:16 +1100
Subject: Albatross 0.06 released
Message-ID: <m37koekr57.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

Albatross is a small toolkit for developing highly stateful web
applications.

The toolkit has been designed to take a lot of the pain out of
constructing intranet applications although you can also use Albatross
for deploying publicly accessed web applications.

In slightly more than 3000 lines of Python you get the following:

- An extensible HTML templating system similar to DTML including tags
  for:
  - Conditional processing.
  - Macro definition and expansion.
  - Sequence iteration and pagination.
  - Tree browsing.
  - Lookup tables to translate Python values to arbitrary template
    text.
- Application classes which offer the following features:
  - Optional server side or browser side sessions.
  - The ability to place Python code for each page in a dynamically
    loaded module, or to place all page processing code in a single
    mainline.
- The ability to deploy applications either as CGI or via mod_python
  by changing less than 10 lines of code.

The toolkit application functionality is defined by a collection of
fine grained mixin classes.  Eight different application types and
four different execution contexts are prepackaged, you are able to
define your own drop in replacements for any of the mixins to alter
any aspect of the toolkit semantics.

Application deployment is controlled by your choice of either cgi or
mod_python Request class.  It should be possible to develop a Request
class for FastCGI or Medusa to allow applications to be deployed on
those platforms with minimal changes.

Albatross comes with over 130 pages of documentation.  HTML, PDF and
PostScript formatted documentation is available from the toolkit
homepage.

The toolkit homepage:

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/

Important changes since last release:

* The template parser has been enhanced to handle attribute values
  enclosed with either single or double quotes.  The enclosing quote
  character can be used in the attribute string if it is escaped by a
  backslash ('\').  Attribute values can be broken over multiple
  lines.

* All pickles sent to browser are now MD5 signed to detect and prevent
  modification.  New pickle security techniques can be defined by
  defining a replacement for the PickleSignMixin class.

* The new RandomPageModuleMixin class now allows you to build
  applications which use the request URL to determine which page
  module will be used to process the browser request.

* A set of classes for implementing file based server side sessions
  has been added.

* The simple session server can now be run as a daemon under Unix.

* Program mainline for mod_python deployment has been simplified. You
  now hook into mod_python like this:
  
        def handler(req): 
            return app.run(Request(req)) 

  instead of this:

        from mod_python import apache 
          :
        def handler(req): 
            app.run(Request(req)) 
            return apache.OK 

* New redirect() execution context method for doing browser
  redirection.

* Session saving can be disabled via the new set_save_session()
  method.

* The samples have been completely reorganised and documentation updated
  to make them less confusing.  An installation program has been
  provided to reduce the pain of running the samples.

* Many documentation improvements.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Thu Mar  7 18:27:01 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 15:27:01 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <rmsf8u8ieh0dbl1i9rjd7gbg2vvotaqtop@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7x8z946jsq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:
> >This syntax could easily be extend, to allow a step other than 1:
> >
> >   for i = 1 to 10 step 3:
> 
> Or:
> 
> 	for i = 10 to 1 step -1:

This is fine.

> Further, in ranges which step from high to low, the step can be
> inferred.

This doesn't sound good.  Suppose you say

      for i = a to b:

where you don't know at compile time the values of a and b.
Do you really want it to count backwards if b < a?   I usually wouldn't.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 12:14:07 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:14:07 +0000
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <23891c90.0203180259.26e87496@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1016464710.8627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TmPFuLAfBil8Ewg8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1016464710.8627.python-list at python.org>,
brueckd at tbye.com writes
>On 18 Mar 2002, Paul Boddie wrote:
>
>teresting candidates exist.
>
>But URL split and join functions already exist in the urlparse module
>(urlparse, *not* urllib). See urlparse's urlparse, urlunparse, and urljoin
>functions - what don't they do that you need? They certainly handle the
>make-relative-URLs-absolute problem.
>
>-Dave
>
>
well one thing I might need is a local file URL and on a win32 system.
When I try and join up 

c:/a/b/c/x.html with an empty host I get something that can't be used

>>> urlparse.urlunparse(('file','','c:/a/b/c/x.html','','',''))
'file:c:/a/b/c/x.html'
>>> 

normally I would expect to use something like

file:///c:/a/b/c/x.html

but it seems that parse and unparse don't commute on these.
-- 
Robin Becker


From twisted at itamarst.org  Sat Mar  9 12:39:30 2002
From: twisted at itamarst.org (Itamar Shtull-Trauring)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:39:30 -0500
Subject: ANN: Twisted 0.15.5
Message-ID: <3C8A48D2.5050803@itamarst.org>

== Get Twisted ==

Main Twisted site: http://www.twistedmatrix.com

Mirror for downloads: http://twisted.coopweb.org

The latest Twisted, v0.15.5, is available now in Debian sid
("unstable"): http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/twisted.html


== What's New? ==

There have a been a lot of changes since out last c.l.p.a anouncement:

  - Win32 event loop support
  - A new GTK+ instant messaging client
  - Much improved DNS support, including the beginning of a server
  - Instant messaging server had many improvements
  - SOCKSv4 proxy server
  - Much improved mail server
  - Many more services can be configured via the web
  - ECO, a small lisp implementation
  - Log rotation for log files
  - More testing code (lots more, in fact)
  - Bug fixes, API improvements

and much more.


== What is Twisted? ==

Twisted is an event-based framework for internet applications.  It
includes a web server, a telnet server, a multiplayer RPG engine, a
generic client and server for remote object access, and APIs for
creating new protocols and services. Twisted supports integration of the
Tk, GTK  or wxPython event loop with its main event loop. The Win32
event loop is also supported, as is basic support for running servers on
top of Jython.

Twisted currently supports the following protocols, all implemented in
pure python, most of them as both servers and clients:

     - FTP
     - HTTP
     - SOCKSv4
     - SMTP
     - IRC
     - telnet
     - POP3
     - AOL's instant messaging TOC
     - OSCAR, used by AOL-IM as well as ICQ (client only)
     - DNS
     - LDAP (client only)
     - finger
     - Echo, discard, chargen and friends
     - Twisted Perspective Broker




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 13:57:42 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:57:42 +0000
Subject: cgi xmlrpc anyone?
References: <JDoTXKAYb3j8EwA$@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <mailman.1016039618.501.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RunFsVAmE6j8Ewxp@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1016039618.501.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard
H?ring <gh_pythonlist at gmx.de> writes
>Le 13/03/02 ? 15:57, Robin Becker ?crivit:
>> Has anyone got a cgi version of an xmlrpc server? By that I mean a cgi
>> script which simulates being an xmlrpc server. We are allowed to do cgi
>> by our ISP, but not to run long running processes or to start up our own
>> servers etc.
> 
>Rewind your newsreader a little, and you'll find
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:comp.lang.python+xml-rpc+cgi+server&hl=d
>e&selm=mailman.1014485857.32093.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1
>
>I haven't tried it, only remembered reading the thread.
>
>Gerhard
thanks that looks like the sort of thing I need.
-- 
Robin Becker


From tim-dated-1015967204.ddf39d at catseye.net  Tue Mar  5 16:06:43 2002
From: tim-dated-1015967204.ddf39d at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 15:06:43 -0600
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: <R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54>
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
	<mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org>
	<Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
	<R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <86it8ag1wc.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

"Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:

> Brett is exactly right. I am using an approach that is valid and elegant in
> C++. Since I am fairly new to Python, I had assumed it handled
> contructors/destructors in an ordered (i.e. deterministic) fashion. It seems
> not.

Sometimes valid and elegant in C++.  Specifically, valid and elegant
with objects allocated on the stack.  But Python objects are analogous
to C++ objects allocated on the heap.  If you have a pointer to an
object allocated on the heap in C++ and it goes out of scope, you've
just leaked memory.  Hardly valid and elegant. <wink>

Try explicitly deleting the Python objects.  I don't know if
destructor order is even guaranteed in that case or not, but you'll be
a lot closer to the C++ model, where you must explicitly delete heap
objects.  Despite the fact that the language hides the direct pointer
manipulation, Python objects, like Java objects, have pointer
semantics.

Oh.  And even if it does work, don't do it that way.  I agree with the
rest of the responses you've received: it's much better to be explicit
about cleanup.  If you have to call 'del' to cause your cleanup code
to execute, might as well call 'cleanup' or 'write_close' and let
Python worry about the 'del'.


Tim



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 19:10:03 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:10:03 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF8BFFC864.909B4F3E-ON88256B73.0000AD73@i2.com>

[Greg Ewing]
>   for i in indices(mytable, "rows"):
>    for j in indices(mytable, "cols"):

Highly unlikely to work for Jython/Swing DefaultTableModel, however,
without some "interesting" hardcoding in Jython <wink>.

Jim




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Mar  8 06:08:12 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:08:12 +0000
Subject: Tkinter question: master?
References: <mailman.1015546514.30981.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6a2an$tvo$1@norfair.nerim.net>

<posted & mailed>

chajadan wrote:
[snip]
> class Application(Frame):
> 
> def __init__(self, master):
> Frame.__init__(self, master)
[snip]
> in "def __init__(self, master):", self refers to this class, i.e.
> Application (though how those are inherently linked [by name or arguement
> position--assuming position] I have no clue. master will be set equal to
> whatever the next arguement is, which seems to be Frame...

Nope: "self" does *not* refer to the class, neither do "master" refer to 
Frame. "self" refers to the instance being built. There's no link at all 
between the arguments in the __init__ method and what you specified in the 
class declaration (Application(Frame)), which describes the inherited 
classes.

Consider this far simpler example:

class C1:
  def __init__(self, a, b):
    self.x = a + b

class C2(C1):
  def __init__(self, a, b, c):
    C1.__init__(self, a, b)
    self.y = c

C1 does not inherit from anything, so you define it like above: "class C1" 
with nothing behind. The method __init__ is defined with two parameters, 
that will be passed as arguments when the object is built. So if you have 
to build an instance of C1, you'll have to do that:

o1 = C1(2, 4)

(Try to pass any other number of arguments, and you'll see it fails...)

Now C2 inherits from C1, so its definition is written "class C2(C1)". But 
its __init__ method takes 3 parameters, so when you create an instance of 
C2, you'll write:

o2 = C2(1, 3, 5)

I see what you find confusing: in the class definition C2(C1) means 
"inheritance", but in object creation, C2(1, 3, 5) means "call to the 
__init__ method". The notations are similar, but the meaning are different. 
Which is indeed even more confusing when you inherit from one class and the 
__init__ method has one argument, like in your example.

> the (Frame) in the class definition must just be for
> inheritance purposes and have ~NOTHING~ to do with arguements

You're right on that.

HTH
 - eric -



From paul at boddie.net  Thu Mar  7 13:57:40 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 10:57:40 -0800
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203071057.57204175@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list at python.org>...
> 

This was a great posting from Skip, and if I were still doing DDJ
Python-URL! it would go right in there at the very top. (Hint to the
current Python-URL! writer!)

> If you're looking for something to munch on, here are some suggestions, not
> all of which require that you write code:
> 
>     * breathe some life into the catalog-sig:
>           http://www.python.org/sigs/catalog-sig/

We've got the Vaults and siphon has been around and yet failed to
maintain a high profile, as far as I've read on this list/group.
Interestingly, the CPAN issue just keeps coming up. Myself, I wrote a
script to query the Vaults, and I even have functionality for finding
dependencies, although with the "screen-scraping" techniques in use,
my code is possibly not that reliable. Nevertheless, I see a future
for "grass roots", really simple code in this area, and surely writing
that code would be *much* easier than writing a PEP about some banal
language change.

>     * find a Python bug without a proposed fix and write one (there are
>       currently between 250 and 300 open bug reports):
>           http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

Although one might think that this requires a "Python internals skill
level" of at least 7 out of 10, there are probably porting issues that
could usefully be resolved by people with access to the right
hardware. (If Python runs on RISC OS, Amiga and Mac OS - hats off to
the RISC OS, Amiga and Mac OS maintainers, by the way - it really
should run on HP-UX 10.x!)

>     * document an undocumented module from the standard library:
>           http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/undoc.html

Or even write a nice wrapper around some of that code - nntplib was my
first standard library experience, but it surely hasn't changed that
much since 1995.

>     * write a HOWTO (another of Andrew's little sideline projects!) about
>       your little niche of Python expertise:
>           http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/

Yes, even a HOWTO is much easier than a language change PEP - you
can...

  * Write about something you know very well, because you've tried it
    and it works.

  * Ignore rigorous criticism - just say "in my experience" and people
    will still be grateful for your contribution.

  * Get positive feedback, rather than a 200 message thread of mixed
    responses before you lose interest entirely or it's pointed out
    that your changes will never be accepted, or at least not before
    Python 4.1 (or, in some cases, before the Winter Olympics are
    staged in Hell).

Paul


From claxtonr at beer.com  Mon Mar 25 00:26:00 2002
From: claxtonr at beer.com (hejduk)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 21:26:00 -0800
Subject: wxPython install problems on linux
Message-ID: <da8db604.0203242126.267ab032@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm having a problem installing wxPython on linux (Slak 8). I have
all the necesarry prerequisites (wxGTK, python etc). When I run the
setup.py build script half way through i get the following error
messages:

running build_ext
building 'wxc' extension
...
src/helpers.cpp:26: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
src/helpers.cpp:27: gdk/gdkprivate.h: No such file or directory
In file included from src/helpers.cpp:28:
/usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:18: gdk/gdk.h: No such file or
directory
/usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:19: gdk/gdkx.h: No such file or
directory
/usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:20: gtk/gtkcontainer.h: No such
file or directory
/usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:21: gtk/gtkadjustment.h: No such
file or directory
/usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:22: gtk/gtkfeatures.h: No such
file or directory
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1


Not surprisingly when I try to run any of the demo programs I get an
error message about no wxc module. I know this is kind of specific and
obscure but if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Mar  8 08:34:56 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:34:56 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <3c87cc23.24881687@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081626040.8297-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mats Wichmann wrote:

>:So, a bad book (with errors, inconsistencies, etc) is not necessary bad
>:for learning purposes (if it covers enough of a subject).
>
>I think that's a stretch.  Bad books have stopped me almost dead on a
>subject, unless I had a personal reason why I needed to push through.
>I'm closer to conceding the point on lectures... a classroom situation
>is by its' nature more interactive, a bad book can stop any
>interaction.

Well, I agree. If the book jumps from 'too easy' to 'too hard'
too often, the resulting miscommunication will force one to
drop the book and find another one.

However, the original book may be revisited later and serve its reader
well. On the contrary, the "good" book will be soon forgotten.

It's like with OS debate. Linux is hard to learn but is it really hard to
use by someone who learned it well?

However, it is said right about interaction. It also contains
"action" in it.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, March 08, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "People are always available for work in the past tense." _/




From wurmy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 20:04:58 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:04:58 GMT
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com> <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au> <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015882525.3222.python-list@python.org> <a6jd2a$p9d$1@panix2.panix.com> <pan.2002.03.11.18.42.10.801725.2092@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8D549C.217548F@earthlink.net>

Ben Wolfson wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:02:34 -0600, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> 
> > The main problem with Vyper was that it wasn't finished, and Skaller
> > mysteriously vanished.
> 
> The most recent hits for "John Max Skaller" on google is from September
> 2001.  He's now got a new language of his own: http://felix.sf.net .
> It seems pretty similar to what he had planned for Vyper, but looks more
> C-ish.  I don't know if he still follows Python; interscript uses 1.5.1.

When I was a kid, there was a big, fat, mean boy named Felix, living near
our school. He used to threaten other kids. I would never use a language
with that name. 

Good thing the show wasn't called "Monty Felix's Flying Circus",
or I would never have discovered this wonderful language...

Totally-off-topic-ly y'rs,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar 15 18:14:23 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:14:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Optimising list comparison
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEOIOEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020315151423.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> This will run *significantly* faster if you pass list1 and list2 to
> compare() as arguments (access to function locals is much quicker than
> access to globals).  You could also exploit Python's chained comparisons:
> 

it shaved about a second off the run by passing in the lists in my tests.

> Then it's actually quite difficult to explain why
> 
> import operator
> def attempt5(list1, list2, sum=operator.__add__):
>     return 1 not in map(sum, list1, list2)
> 
> isn't quicker than an explicit loop doing the same thing.
> 

roughly 1.5 seconds slower than his best time.

> 
> Keep trying <wink>.  Also give
> 
>     for a, b in zip(list1, list2):
> 
> a shot.  It may surprise you <wink>.
> 

I tried this when he sent out his mail, roughly 2.5 seconds slower.

./loops.py 
100000 iterations of <function attempt1 at 0x80982d4> took: 8.464 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt2 at 0x8098344> took: 20.863 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt3 at 0x809837c> took: 8.747 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt4 at 0x809853c> took: 10.957 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt5 at 0x809a264> took: 9.921 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt6 at 0x808be0c> took: 8.557 secs

you have seen 1 and 2 (they now pass in the lists as arguments).

3 uses xrange (thought not making a list would be faster), 4 uses zip, 5 is
Tim's map and 6 uses the == 1 optimization.

def attempt3(lista, listb):
    for i in xrange(len(lista)):
        if (lista[i] != listb[i]) and (lista[i] != -1) and (listb[i] != -1):
            return 0
    return 1

def attempt4(lista, listb):
    for (a,b) in zip(lista, listb):
        if (a != b) and (a != -1) and (b != -1):
            return 0
    return 1

import operator
def attempt5(lista, listb, sum=operator.__add__):
    return 1 not in map(sum, lista, listb)

def attempt6(lista, listb):
    for i in range(len(lista)):
        if lista[i] + listb[i] == 1: return 0
    return 1




From news.Andreas at gmx.net  Fri Mar 22 13:39:43 2002
From: news.Andreas at gmx.net (Andreas)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 10:39:43 -0800
Subject: load html frameset out of Python script
Message-ID: <30cf5082.0203221039.791cab07@posting.google.com>

Hello everybody,

I am trying to set up a html site with frames. I want to load the
frameset out of a Python script.
Frameset definition:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
        "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>right frame</title>
</head>
  <frameset frameborder="no" rows="20%,20%,8%,52%">
    <frame src="control.html" name="frame_control" scrolling="no"
noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
    <frame src="customer.html" name="output_customer" scrolling="no"
noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
    <frame src="buttons.html" name="component_buttons" scrolling="no"
noresize marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
    <frame src="empty.html" name="output_component" scrolling="auto"
marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
  </frameset>
  <noframes>
  No frame support of your browser!
  </noframes>
<body>
</body>
</html>

I load this with the following code:

File = "%s" % ('frameset.html')
PageHandle = open(File, "r")
PageInput = PageHandle.read()
PageHandle.close()
Display(PageInput)

...the html file will be found but I can see just an empty page.

What can I do to realize this problem?
Is it possible to write in a specific frame from my scripts?

Thanks in advance,
Andras


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 12 16:53:03 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:53:03 GMT
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <Tjtj8.48802$3O2.18198075@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3Nuj8.31472$l93.6215261@newsb.telia.net>

Rob Nikander wrote:
> Are there any projects out there that allow you to embed python in HTML
> like PHP?  I like the PHP-style of embedding the bits of program in HTML,
> but I'd like to use python...

start here:

http://thor.prohosting.com/~pboddie/Python/web_modules.html

</F>




From nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 18:13:21 2002
From: nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk (Nick)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:13:21 -0000
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a6m237$gjb$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Scott Kurland" <skurland at juggler.net> wrote in message
news:u8t22ns5jo7i46 at corp.supernews.com...
> Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?
>
> #Searching for perfect numbers
>
> howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
> for number in range (1,howhigh):
>  factorsum = 0
>  halfnumber=number/2
>  for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
>   if number/checking == int (number/checking):
>    factorsum = factorsum + checking
>  if number == factorsum:
>   print number
>
>

Err, well I'm a newbie myself, but it seems to work if you replace
range(1,halfnumber) with range(1,halfnumber+1). This may be because you are
using floating point arithmetic - maybe Python is storing halfnumber,
instead of, e.g. 2, as 1.99999 etc.

>
> Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.
>
> --
> "Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
> -- Seneca
>
>
>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 31 22:38:49 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:38:49 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <rUOp8.176012$Gf.16207386@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEIJOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Terry Reedy]
> ...
> My proposal has two parts: do not use 'bool'; do use 'truth' (or
> possibly something else such as 'binary' or even 'tval').  I am
> curious what you think of the four reasons I gave.  I am specifically
> curious whether you will volunteer to anwer a multiyear stream
> (already started) of questions about why Python truth values, being
> called bool, do not act 'properly' as bools 'should' and suggestion
> that they 'ought' to be restricted (crippled) so that they do.

I think this is easy:  I point them at the C99 standard, whose boolean is
very much like Guido's conception, and end with "yup, same thing in Python".
Or just point them at the PEP.  The idea that the same people are *not*
going to complain about True+1 if the type is called "binary" (or anything
else) instead isn't credible to me.  They'll insist that True+1 is evil just
because part of it is spelled "True".  If the new tval type had singleton
constants Freeble and Goroblof, people would still complain about
Goroblof+1, but not just because of the addition <wink>.

We can't stop those so inclined from complaining about True ** False - False
** True == True no matter what the type is called.

> For some (many? most?) people, it's obvious now, 'Boolean' and its
> derivative 'bool' have a definite and restricted usage that excludes
> Python truth values current and proposed.

I expect they're triggered more by True and False than by "bool".  The
boolean types in C99 and C++ play nicely with integers; Java's and Pascal's
and Fortran's don't; so it goes.

> Perhaps we should honor that usage

There's no consistency across existing computer languages, and I've got no
reason to give more weight to, say, Java's choices than to C's.  If you have
to think of it in these terms <wink>, think of it as honoring C99.

> and use something either more general or more specific to Python.
> Otherwise, we had bettter say pretty clearly that Python bool
> is not Boolean and that one should think of it as a type with dual
> inheritance from both int and (abstract, not implemented) Boolean.
> (And expect that people will be mislead anyway.)

I agree the docs need to be clear, but, still, it is what it is no matter
what it's called.




From vamsi at cs.unm.edu  Fri Mar 22 17:26:54 2002
From: vamsi at cs.unm.edu (Vamsi K Kalapala)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:26:54 -0700
Subject: Environment variables.
References: <mailman.1016817295.29856.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9BAFAE.51D0896D@cs.unm.edu>

>

Hi,

I am learning python and I wanted to write a small script that will set
environment variables.

#!/usr/bin/python

# Program to set the environment.

# Import the sys and os modules.
import sys
import os

# Function to change the environment.
def setenv(var, value):
   os.environ[var] = value

# The driver.
if __name__ == '__main__' :
   setenv(sys.argv[1], sys.argv[2])

I am running this on Python-2.2, but the script doesn't change the
environment. In Programming Python, it is claimed that newer versions of
Python do change the environment like this. Why is'nt this script
working.

--Vamsi



From jason at jorendorff.com  Wed Mar 13 00:36:05 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:36:05 -0600
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
In-Reply-To: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEBJDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEBLDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

I benchmarked it; results:

  plain Python: 8.557 sec
  optimized Python: 2.325 sec
  Numeric Python: 0.753 sec

This is for 1000 numbers in both s_vector and r_vector.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



from Numeric import *
from random import random
from time import clock

def f1(s_vector, f_s_vector, r_vector, atoms):
    n = 0
    i_vector = []
    for s in s_vector:
        sum = 0
        for r in r_vector:
            x = 2 * pi * r * s
            sum = sum + (2 * (sin(x))/x)
        intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum / atoms)
        i_vector.append(intensity)
        n = n + 1
    return i_vector

def f2(s_vector, f_s_vector, r_vector, atoms):
    # Precompute the 2*pi*r, which is a constant inside of the s loop
    precomputed_r1_vector = [2 * pi * r for r in r_vector]
    local_sin = math.sin  # local variables have fast lookup
    i_vector = []
    i_vector_append = i_vector.append

    # using the zip gets rid of the extra n+1 and [n], at the expense
    # of making a new list.  I suspect it's faster, but I'm not sure
    for s, f_s_vector in zip(s_vector, f_s_vector):
        sum = 0.0
        for scaled_r in precomputed_r1_vector:
            x = scaled_r * s
            sum = sum + 2 * (local_sin(x)/x)

        # Did some algebra here to merge the first and last terms,
        # which gets rid of the division.  Also replaced the function call
        # to 'pow' with the equivalent use of **2
        i_vector_append((f_s_vector**2) * (atoms + sum))

    return i_vector

def f3(S, FS, R, atoms):
    Rcol = R[:, NewAxis]
    x = 2 * pi * Rcol * S
    y = 2 * sin(x) / x
    sums = add.reduce(y)
    I = atoms * FS**2 * (1 + sums/atoms)
    return I

def timefn(msg, fn, *args):
    t0 = clock()
    result = fn(*args)
    t1 = clock()
    print msg + ": %.3f sec" % (t1-t0)

def measure():
    S = array([random()-.5 for i in range(1000)])
    R = array([random()-.5 for i in range(1000)])
    FS = array([random()*0.5 for i in range(1000)])
    atoms = 1000

    timefn("plain Python",     f1, S, FS, R, atoms)
    timefn("optimized Python", f2, S, FS, R, atoms)
    timefn("Numeric Python",   f3, S, FS, R, atoms)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    measure()





From david at dataovation.com  Sat Mar  9 16:53:54 2002
From: david at dataovation.com (David McInnis)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:53:54 -0800
Subject: httplib question
Message-ID: <00bb01c1c7b4$e8802f00$9865fea9@bigdaddy>

I need to write a small client that can access https (SSL) page?  Is
this possible with httplib under 2.1?  

This is the error that I received.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Python21/pyapps/emediawire_.py", line 39, in ?
    f = urllib.urlopen("https://www.<<deleted>>")
  File "C:\Python21\lib\urllib.py", line 71, in urlopen
    return _urlopener.open(url)
  File "C:\Python21\lib\urllib.py", line 173, in open
    return self.open_unknown(fullurl, data)
  File "C:\Python21\lib\urllib.py", line 185, in open_unknown
    raise IOError, ('url error', 'unknown url type', type)
IOError: [Errno url error] unknown url type: 'https'


Sincerely,

David A McInnis




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 15 17:46:44 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:46:44 -0600
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
In-Reply-To: <b03e80d.0203151427.7803754b@posting.google.com>
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1016201064.16243.python-list@python.org>
        <b03e80d.0203151427.7803754b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15506.31188.728127.729857@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Skip> How did you "psycoize pystone"?

    Sandy> Basically, I took the pystone included in Armin's psyco cvs
    Sandy> distribution and simplified the main() function to get rid of the
    Sandy> comparitive stuff.

Modification of the source to pystone is a no-no, otherwise you're comparing
apples and oranges.  Instead, try something like

    >>> import pystone
    >>> pystone.main()
    Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.51
    This machine benchmarks at 3984.06 pystones/second
    >>> pystone.main()
    Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.54
    This machine benchmarks at 3937.01 pystones/second
    >>> pystone.main()
    Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.53
    This machine benchmarks at 3952.57 pystones/second
    >>> import psyco
    >>> pystone.Proc0 = psyco.proxy(pystone.Proc0)
    >>> pystone.Proc1 = psyco.proxy(pystone.Proc1)
    >>> pystone.Proc8 = psyco.proxy(pystone.Proc8)
    >>> pystone.main()
    Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 0.58
    This machine benchmarks at 17241.4 pystones/second
    >>> pystone.main()
    Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 0.57
    This machine benchmarks at 17543.9 pystones/second
    >>> pystone.main()
    Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 0.58
    This machine benchmarks at 17241.4 pystones/second

Skip



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 17:36:04 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:36:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <slrna8d5q4.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020306143604.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 06-Mar-2002 Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:21:35 -0800 (PST), Sean 'Shaleh' Perry
> <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
>> help release more python modules so perl mongers will quite wagging CPAN in
>> front of our faces.
> 
>     Quality over Quantity.  :)
> 

not to disagree, however there are FAR more interesting perl modules out there
than python ones.



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Mar 15 19:07:40 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:07:40 +0000
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <oa5k8.27154$lM.25760@news2.bloor.is> <a6r6tq$47e$1@usenet.otenet.gr> <fmUpYHBB+jk8EwZf@[127.0.0.1]>
Message-ID: <h0359u8bgrh4f2d4nl4erorh9tgerr8d21@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:37:53 +0000, Chris <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>In article <a6r6tq$47e$1 at usenet.otenet.gr>, Kaklis Antonis 
><antoni3 at otenet.gr> writes
>>1) "Learning Python" --Mark Lutz & David Ascher
>>     Little old (covers Python1.5.2), but excellent for a begginer
>>2) "Core Python Programming" --Wesley J.Chun
>>     Details the core Python fundamentals and much more
>>3) And of course the Python tutorial
>>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/
>>4)"How to think like a computer scientist in Python
>>      http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
>
>
>Thank you.
>I downloaded number 4.
>However, it is in a strange form (Tex) for a windows user.
>Is it any use to me in that form?
>And can it be obtained in any other form?
>(It does look good.)

Tex is a markup language especially designed to compose scientifical
articles (mathematics, physics), it is not supposed to be viewed
directly.

I have that book in postscript format. And I think it is pretty good. I
can send it to you, if you can't find it.

Best,
Gon?alo Rodrigues



From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 20 05:09:30 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:09:30 +0000
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
In-Reply-To: <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020320100930.GA18197@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 12:03:46PM -0800, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Why, oh why, does it use HTML-like syntax?  People keep implementing
> templating languages that do this over and over, and it's a bad, bad
> idea.  Any moderately complex example of templating will violate the
> rules of HTML/SGML, with things like <img src="<al-value
> expr="something">">, which is horrible to read, will anger WYSIWYG
> editors to no end, and isn't at all necessary.

Yeah, this puts me off Albatross too...  I've just started playing
with Page Templates in Zope, and their approach seems excellent: it's
all done in _attributes_ without adding any new tags.

Have a look at this example (from
http://www.zope.org/Members/peterbe/DTML2ZPT):

<ul tal:define="sequence python:container.mydb.selectbyname(name='peter')">
  <li tal:repeat="item sequence">
    <span tal:replace="item/surname">surname</span>
  </li>
</ul>

Now, that's perfectly valid HTML, most WYSYWIG editors will basically
ignore the tal: attributes and render a single-element list, but the
ZPT machinery in Zope will pick that up and render a multi-element
list in a manner which I think it pretty obvious from looking at the
source.

In short, I think it's super-neato.  :-)

Now I need to figure out if it can be used outside of Zope.  AFAIK
there _aren't_ any non-Zope implementations, although the language has
definitely been designed to be general enough to allow its use
elsewhere.

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar 26 03:03:47 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 17:03:47 +0900
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org> <7isn6o9fld.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk> <mailman.1017115478.17777.python-list@python.org> <7ieli7an7s.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <87d6xr4uxo.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Isaac" == Isaac To <kkto at csis.hku.hk> writes:

    Isaac> This is somewhat close to what I say, but a little bit off:
    Isaac> it won't reindent to the correct tab width.

C-c > C-M-\ handles your example, but as the docstring for
py-indent-region says, you can't do it generically without telepathy.
Both

    if do_as_i_say:
        do_it()
    do_anyway()

and

    if do_as_i_say:
        do_it()
        do_anyway()

are syntactically valid, but the second is evidently semantically
wrong given the apparent intention of the author.

In my own code I often write

    if do_as_i_say:
        do_it()

    do_anyway()

for the first case for emphasis, but this is not a universally
acceptable solution.

    Isaac> Yes, it is very Python specific.

Well, yes, but python-mode is supposed to be Python-specific.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From ken at ineffable.com  Thu Mar  7 11:48:52 2002
From: ken at ineffable.com (Ken Causey)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 08:48:52 -0800
Subject: Handling bad tags with SGMLParser
Message-ID: <6c80b2a1.0203070848.6a25b499@posting.google.com>

I'm working with a piece of software which uses SGMLParser to parse
HTML content so that a small subset of tags can be handled specially. 
The result is then passed onto a browser for rendering.  Failure is
not an option.

I'm running into a problem with sgmllib in Python 2.1.2 with tags of
the form:

<![blah]> where 'blah' could be anything.

In 1.5.2 any non-comment tag starting with ! was simply ignored.  I'm
not sure when it started, but 2.1.2 now considers such tags
declarations and puts them through a bit more parsing.  This is great.
 The problem comes in when the tag does not properly parse as a
declaration, which the above tag does not. 
SGMLParse.parse_declaration() throws a SGMLParseError on anything that
doesn't pass.

The user of SGMLParser needs to be able to handle invalid tags.  This
handling may be complex or as simple as just ignoring it and asking
SGMLParser to skip this tag and move along.  As far as I can tell this
is not an option.

As a side note, the text error message thrown is particularly
uninformation as it simply includes the first letter of the tag, in
other words always '<'.

Thanks,

Ken Causey


From jhorneman at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 12:15:36 2002
From: jhorneman at pobox.com (Jurie Horneman)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 09:15:36 -0800
Subject: fileinput not Unicode compatible? / UTF16 codec problems
References: <9ac02e81.0203010507.377dba0d@posting.google.com> <j4n0xscs8b.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9ac02e81.0203010915.5c170f1f@posting.google.com>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message news:<j4n0xscs8b.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>...

> I assume you first split the input into lines, then try the decoding?
> That does not work with UTF-16; you first need to decode, then split
> into lines.

Your assumption is correct :) And your explanation of what the UTF-16
decoder is doing makes a lot of sense.
  
> As long as it is fileinput only, I recommend to rewrite your code to
> not use that module; this is probably simpler than rewriting the
> module to support encodings in full generality.

That's what I did. I basically wrote a function that takes a path and
returns a list of strings. It's not the cleanest design right now, but
it works.
 
> You cannot decode UTF-16 on a line-by-line basis. Instead, you need to
> use a stream reader, which will remember the right encoding across
> .read or .readline invocations (only since Python 2.2, AFAIR). The
> most convenient way to open a Unicode stream is to use codecs.open,
> passing the encoding. In case of UTF-16, the endianness will be
> determined on first .read* invocation.

OK, that makes sense. I'll keep that (and your other remarks) in mind
when I refactor what I have now.

Thanks a lot for your help!

Jurie Horneman


From cer at tutopia.com  Mon Mar 18 03:25:54 2002
From: cer at tutopia.com (Cristian Echeverria)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 04:25:54 -0400
Subject: Python using EditPlus
References: <%U_k8.5513$Hz2.19187@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <a72u2v$i55jt$1@ID-44371.news.dfncis.de>

Menu: Tools > Configure User Tools...
Choose a group of tools and change the name (Buton "Group Name...")
Add Tool >> Program
Menu Text= "Python"
Command= %pythonpath%\python.exe
Argument= -u $(FileName)
Initial directory= $(FileDir)
Capture output = Yes

This is the basic tool to run the interpreter over the current source.
You can add another one to run the interpreter without capturing output
(this way a dos console will appear).
I don't know how to setup the debuger, because I don't use it (I debug using
print and the standar output).

"Luca Grossi" <lgrossi at bigpond.net.au> escribi? en el mensaje
news:%U_k8.5513$Hz2.19187 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Hello everyone ,
>
>                          I'm sorry if this question has been asked before
> but could anyone give me instructions on how to debug and interpret python
> scripts using Edit Plus ? I download the python modules for edit plus so
it
> recognise the syntax. But how do I setup the user tools , so I can check
for
> bugs in the script and run it J
>
> Thanks Luca
>
>
>




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar  3 15:04:44 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:04:44 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wlvg8.4486$766.1429@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>

Of course your example makes since, but look at this more complex one:

def functionInMyModule(lst = []):
    #assumes we recieve a list, no type checking
    for i in lst:
        performSomeOperation(i)

-------------------------------------------------
end user script
-------------------------------------------------

import myModule

x = eval( raw_input("Enter some numbers") )

myModule.functionInMyModule(x)


When you run the script, a user is prompted for some numbers.  If they enter
1,2,3,4,5, a tuple of (1,2,3,4,5) is created that can then be iterated.  If
they just enter 5, then they probably only want to perform this operation on
5, but when functionInMyModule() is called, the results will be identical to
the first example, when you really want it to throw an error or create a
tuple of (5).

This isn't necessarily the best example, but it's situations like this that
make the proposed syntax unclear.  In practice, there are alot of for:
operations that are beina applied to an arbitrary python objects that may or
may not be an int.  In these cases PEP 276 would result in unexpected
behaviour.

-

"Cromwell, Jeremy" <jcromwell at ciena.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list at python.org...
> If python was to allow "for i in 5:", is there any other meaning that
would
> be appropriate besides the one detailed in PEP 276?
>
> Without trotting out ugly examples, it is cleaner than many of the current
> features in python.  I'm still a relative newbie, but I remember it being
a
> bit jarring to need to use range() just to iterate through numbers.
>
> It's so simple to explain and understand, that I doubt that it would be
> confusing.  Here's my clumsy rewording of the tutorial:
>
> 4.3 For x in integer, and the range() Function
> When given an integer rather than a sequence, the for statement iterates
> over the numbers from 0 up to (but not including) the given number:
>
> >>> for i in 3:
> ...     print i, i*3
> 0, 0
> 1, 3
> 2, 6
>
> The given end point is never part of the generated list; for x in 10
> iterates through a list of 10 values, exactly the legal indices for items
of
> a sequence of length 10.
>
> To iterate over the indices of a sequence, use len() as follows:
>
> >>> a = ['Mary', 'had', 'a', 'little', 'lamb']
> >>> for i in len(a):
> ...     print i, a[i]
> ...
> 0 Mary
> 1 had
> 2 a
> 3 little
> 4 lamb
>
>
> If you do need to iterate over a more complex sequence of numbers, the
> built-in function range() comes in handy. It generates lists containing
> arithmetic progressions.  You supply the start and finish and it produces
a
> list from start up to finish, incrementing by one:
>
> >>> range(5, 10)
> [5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>
> It is possible to specify a different increment (even negative; sometimes
> this is called the `step'):
>
> >>> range(0, 10, 3)
> [0, 3, 6, 9]
> >>> range(-10, -100, -30)
> [-10, -40, -70]
>
> Calling range() with one number produces the same list that a for
statement
> iterates over for that number:
>
> >>> range(10)
> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>
> --- end tutorial ---
>
> I like this proposal and would like to see it adopted.  If others like it,
> they should speak up since about all we hear from are the detractors.
>
> Jeremy Cromwell
>
> ...now let's see..<PrtScnSysRq>...<PgUp>...Hmmm, where's that <wink> key?
>
>




From maric.michaud at cirec.com  Wed Mar 20 12:01:33 2002
From: maric.michaud at cirec.com (Maric)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:01:33 +0100
Subject: popen3 with python
In-Reply-To: <20020310225523.GC721@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <000001c1d030$e3f311d0$470010ac@GERLAND2.local>

That's it i think.
here my piece of code to prevent it and scan every char on either stdin or
stdout

raccroche = select.poll()
stdout_upd = select.poll()
stderr_upd = select.poll()

# Lancement de la commande
pipe_out  = os.popen3(tempCmd)
stdin, stdout, stderr = pipe_out
for i in pipe_out :
	raccroche.register(i.fileno(), select.POLLHUP)
stdout_upd.register(stdout, select.POLLIN)
stderr_upd.register(stderr, select.POLLIN)
s, e = (None,)*2
s_looping, e_looping = (0,)*2

# tant que le processus fils n'a pas raccroch? ou qu'il ne s'est pas endormi
!
while(s_looping or e_looping or not raccroche.poll(0)):

	events.clear()

	while(s!='' and stdout_upd.poll(0)) :
     		s = os.read(stdout.fileno(),1)
      	if s == '' : break
      	# do something with s

	while(e!='' and stderr_upd.poll(0)) :
      	e = os.read(stderr.fileno(),1)
            if e == '' : break
            # do something with e

	# on emp?che au processus fils de s'endormir
	if s_looping :
      	self.exitStatus = stdout.close()
            break
      if s == '' : s_looping = 1
      if e_looping :
           stderr.close()
           break
	if e == '' : e_looping = 1


# R?cup?ration des informations utiles
if not stdout.closed : self.exitStatus = stdout.close()
if not stderr.closed : stderr.close()
if self.exitStatus is None : self.exitStatus = 0



----Message d'origine-----
De : Thomas Guettler [mailto:guettli at thomas-guettler.de]
Envoy? : dimanche 10 mars 2002 23:55
? : Maric MICHAUD
Objet : popen3 with python


Hi Maric!

You replied to my question. I found the answer, maybe you have the
same deadlock condition:

If there is a lot of output on e.g. stderr and you start reading
from stdin you have a deadlock

Example:

The subprocess writes a lot of data to stderr and blocks.
In your application you use:

(stdin, stdout, stderr)=popen3("command_with_a_lot_of_output")
stdout.read()

--> deadlock

 thomas
--
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de





From python at chajadan.net  Fri Mar  8 15:38:44 2002
From: python at chajadan.net (chajadan)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:38:44 -0800
Subject: Tkinter question: master?
In-Reply-To: <a6a2an$tvo$1@norfair.nerim.net>
References: <mailman.1015546514.30981.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308123805.027e2ec0@63.118.78.184>

Thanks :-D

--chajadan

At 11:08 AM 3/8/02 +0000, Eric Brunel wrote:
><posted & mailed>
>
>chajadan wrote:
>[snip]
> > class Application(Frame):
> >
> > def __init__(self, master):
> > Frame.__init__(self, master)
>[snip]
> > in "def __init__(self, master):", self refers to this class, i.e.
> > Application (though how those are inherently linked [by name or arguement
> > position--assuming position] I have no clue. master will be set equal to
> > whatever the next arguement is, which seems to be Frame...
>
>Nope: "self" does *not* refer to the class, neither do "master" refer to
>Frame. "self" refers to the instance being built. There's no link at all
>between the arguments in the __init__ method and what you specified in the
>class declaration (Application(Frame)), which describes the inherited
>classes.
>
>Consider this far simpler example:
>
>class C1:
>   def __init__(self, a, b):
>     self.x = a + b
>
>class C2(C1):
>   def __init__(self, a, b, c):
>     C1.__init__(self, a, b)
>     self.y = c
>
>C1 does not inherit from anything, so you define it like above: "class C1"
>with nothing behind. The method __init__ is defined with two parameters,
>that will be passed as arguments when the object is built. So if you have
>to build an instance of C1, you'll have to do that:
>
>o1 = C1(2, 4)
>
>(Try to pass any other number of arguments, and you'll see it fails...)
>
>Now C2 inherits from C1, so its definition is written "class C2(C1)". But
>its __init__ method takes 3 parameters, so when you create an instance of
>C2, you'll write:
>
>o2 = C2(1, 3, 5)
>
>I see what you find confusing: in the class definition C2(C1) means
>"inheritance", but in object creation, C2(1, 3, 5) means "call to the
>__init__ method". The notations are similar, but the meaning are different.
>Which is indeed even more confusing when you inherit from one class and the
>__init__ method has one argument, like in your example.
>
> > the (Frame) in the class definition must just be for
> > inheritance purposes and have ~NOTHING~ to do with arguements
>
>You're right on that.
>
>HTH
>  - eric -
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From morton at dennisinter.com  Mon Mar  4 16:56:18 2002
From: morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 13:56:18 -0800
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4abd9ce7.0203041356.39491249@posting.google.com>

"Doug Farrell" <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a text search engine that works with
> Python? What I'm looking for specifically is something that will compress
> the text and still allow searches and retrievals that can be exact matches
> or proximity based. The text I want to compress and search is huge (70 megs)
> and should compress down to half, not including any index files that might
> be required by the search engine. Anyone know of anything like this or any
> ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Doug Farrell

Have you looked at mg.

Its written in C, but useable from the unix command line.

http://www.mds.rmit.edu.au/mg/


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar  4 22:33:43 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 19:33:43 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> writes:
> While we're picking minor nits, I would consider the natural numbers to 
> include zero.

Usually the term "natural numbers" don't include zero.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NaturalNumber.html


From jochen at unc.edu  Tue Mar 19 21:51:51 2002
From: jochen at unc.edu (Jochen =?iso-8859-1?q?K=FCpper?=)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 21:51:51 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEACOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEACOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <lylmco7xyw.fsf@bock.chem.unc.edu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

(Took out numpy, really isn't related anymore.)

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:20:43 -0500 Tim Peters wrote:

>> Why isn't it possible to have a single python-2.2 branch which one
>> could follow to get all the stuff that's incorporated into that
>> version?

Tim> That's what the release22-maint branch is supposed to be (and,
Tim> AFIAK, is).

Ah:)

>> There are huge differences between release22-maint and r221c1,

Tim> What makes you think so?  I just did

when I did
  cvs up -A
  cvs up -r release22-maint
  cvs up -r r22c1
I got multiple screens (>40 lines) of patched and updated files on the
last step.

Tim> cvs diff -r release22-maint -r r221c1

Ok, here too now.  It apparently was a cvs problem:)

Tim> And thanks for checking that your problem is fixed in 221c1.  Had
Tim> anyone tried this stuff in 22a1 or 22a2 or 22a3 or 22a4 or 22b1
Tim> or 22b2 or 22c1 (yes, we actually cut 7 full prerelease
Tim> distributions for 2.2!), it would have worked in 2.2 out of the
Tim> box.  Keep that in mind when 2.3a1 comes out.

Let's see:)

Greetings,
Jochen
- -- 
University of North Carolina                       phone: +1-919-962-4403
Department of Chemistry                            phone: +1-919-962-1579
Venable Hall CB#3290 (Kenan C148)                    fax: +1-919-843-6041
Chapel Hill, NC 27599, USA                            GnuPG key: 44BCCD8E
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6-cygwin-fcn-1 (Cygwin)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt and GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iEYEARECAAYFAjyX+UgACgkQiJ/aUUS8zY4wGgCfbv2O4x61AHNKmBlfVhjZDzRx
A24An15ictH20DEpR4n9Batxm6iMRpwP
=/B11
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  1 01:54:19 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:54:19 -0600
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEGAOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMEDFDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

> some-people-don't-even-like-listcomps-ly y'rs  - tim

Detour:  I still haven't decided whether I like list comps
(although I *use* them all the time) but today I found something
surprisingly similar scribbled in a notebook of mine, perhaps
a few years old.

   { file f | f.parent = '/home/jason' }
   
   ... the same code in something more like prolog ...

   set { file f | f in folder '/home' }

It was really disconcerting to see this in my own handwriting,
considering my mixed feelings on Python's list comps.  Hmm.  :)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Mar 20 21:21:59 2002
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:21:59 +1100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Kragen Sitaker <kragen@pobox.com> 
   of "20 Mar 2002 19:03:25 CDT." <83sn6udbxu.fsf@panacea.canonical.org> 
Message-ID: <200203210222.g2L2M0r15562@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>

>>> Kragen Sitaker wrote
> martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:
> > That is certainly possible; freeze would be the obvious choice for
> > such a mechanism (IMO). Alas, distutils is unmaintained, so don't wait
> > for anybody else to implement it for you.
> 
> That's rather shocking.  How did distutils get to be unmaintained?

Because Greg Ward burned out on it, and no-one's been willing to step up
and continue work on it. Note that "unmaintained" is a bit strong - bugs 
are going to be fixed, but at the moment no-one's actively adding stuff
to it.

Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar  6 13:09:20 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 19:09:20 +0100
Subject: distutils question
References: <3C8655CA.7080008@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <m3hentpnzj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> writes:

> So the real question is, how do people distribute documentation and
> example code?

For PyXML, I use a different install_data command; feel free to use
(it's in xml/setupext/install_data.py of the CVS on
sf.net/projects/pyxml). That supports adding data files in a MANIFEST
style manner, including a directory structure.

Regards,
Martin


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 10:49:18 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:49:18 -0600
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270752550.19847-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <15521.50103.968819.131319@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270752550.19847-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <15521.59902.657216.982543@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Dave> The hotshot module doesn't appear to have any documentation
    Dave> yet.

That's true.  Here's my simple usage scenario:

    import hotshot
    profiler = hotshot.Profile("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
    profiler.run("main()")
    profiler.close()
    stats = hotshot.Stats("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
    stats.print_stats()

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar 12 22:31:04 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:31:04 +0100
Subject: mildly related (was: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?)
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <mailman.1015979203.27977.python-list@python.org> <3c8ec411$1_5@news.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <3c8ecb06$1_1@news.bluewin.ch>

mildly related, on the issues of relationship with the press:

http://amywohl.weblogger.com/2002/03/04

The generally valuable point is the how-to one
can have personal resorts to get things straight,
e.g. a weblog.

regards.




From aahz at panix.com  Mon Mar 11 09:38:03 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 06:38:03 -0800
Subject: PEP 2, Procedure for Adding New Modules
References: <a6cssr$dn8$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <a6d3ih$3ne$1@panix2.panix.com> <a6i4o7$jd0$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <a6ifgb$gnd$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <a6i4o7$jd0$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl>,
Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote:
>Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>>
>> The maintainers also possess primary responsibility for determining
>> whether bugfixes should be backported to previous Python releases as
>> discussed in PEP 6.
>
>Thanks; I'm adding some phrases on this to PEP 2. PEP 6 claims it's a
>'draft' PEP by the way, what is its status?

Looking at the status of other PEPs, it should be "Active", I think.  I'm
cc'ing Barry on this to get his opinion.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From aaron.ginn at motorola.com  Mon Mar 18 17:44:14 2002
From: aaron.ginn at motorola.com (Aaron Ginn)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 15:44:14 -0700
Subject: Declare list of large size
Message-ID: <sn4rjdsdhd.fsf@motorola.com>

Perhaps I've just glossed over this in the documentation, but what is
the simplest way to declare a list of large size?  Is there something
analogous to the following in C:

int list[100];

I can do this by doing the following:

list = []
i=0
while i < 100:
   list.append[0]
   i = i + 1

which will give me a list 100 elements long with all values
initialized to 0, but I'm assuming there has to be an easier way to do
this?  Am I correct in this assumption?

Thanks,
Aaron

-- 
Aaron J. Ginn                    Phone: 480-814-4463
Motorola SemiCustom Solutions    Pager: 877-586-2318
1300 N. Alma School Rd.          Fax  : 480-814-4058
Chandler, AZ 85224 M/D CH260     mailto:aaron.ginn at motorola.com


From akjmicro at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 10:40:51 2002
From: akjmicro at yahoo.com (Aaron Johnson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:40:51 -0500
Subject: Chcago Area Python Interest group
Message-ID: <a7ae29$5mi$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Hello,

I was wondering wheter any Chicago python users out there would be
interested in organizing a group.....

Write me back..if we get enought critical mass, we could post an
announcement on python.org

Cheers,
aaron.

-- 
                                                                            
                    


From sdrake at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Sun Mar 17 08:06:27 2002
From: sdrake at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Steve Drake)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:06:27 GMT
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com> <k8i59ugsco5t1m0tmeq738nc64eg9nal6n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <opi69u801bdoe92t5ommrgpnommqf5khno@4ax.com>

  When I tried this in IDLE there were spaces between the items.  Is
there something else you have to do to create the list with no spaces.

Regards,

Steve Drake

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 04:16:53 GMT, Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com>
wrote:

>d1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)
>>
>>However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
>>uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
>
>The interpreter is your friend:
>
>>>> mylist = []
>>>> for i in range(1,10):
>	mylist.append( "myitem" +`i` )
>
>	
>>>> mylist
>['myitem1', 'myitem2', 'myitem3', 'myitem4', 'myitem5', 'myitem6', 'myitem7', 'myitem8',
>'myitem9']
>>>> 
>
>C//



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Thu Mar 14 23:30:28 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:30:28 -0800
Subject: hey everyone!!
References: <mailman.1016165184.28968.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6r194.3vseurr.1@kserver.org>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:05:40 -0000, "j45729" <spacedweller at hotmail.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016165184.28968.python-list at python.org>:

> hey everyone!! i don't know what to say...PYTHON ROCKS!!  its so much 
> fun it really is a fun language...
> 

I can only concur. :D

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From sacchi at nospamfreemail.it  Sat Mar  9 20:36:16 2002
From: sacchi at nospamfreemail.it (Sacchi)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:36:16 +0100
Subject: newbie needs help with tkinter
Message-ID: <1Myi8.13667$%d1.409160@twister2.libero.it>

I've just learned the main rules of python(I already knew both java and 
C). Now I'm trying to get something out of Tkinter, but while running 
this sample program (made by myself) I encountered a problem. I wanted 
that by clicking on the "configura" command under the "File" menu the 
frame would get yellow and that a label would appear on it. The 
function works(the line "print "hello!"" gets executed) but the gui 
window doesn't change. I even tried to use the widget redraw methods 
but with no success... anyone can help me please?

Thanks in advance
Marco

--------- Program Code ----------------------

from Tkinter import *

class Application(Frame):

        def __init__(self,master=None):
                Frame.__init__(self,master)
                menubar=self.addmenubar()
                master.config(menu=menubar)
                menubar.mainloop()

        def addmenubar(self):
                menubar=Menu()
                filemenu=Menu(menubar)
                menubar.add_cascade(menu=filemenu,label="File")
#these lines got shifted by the newsreader program, but all belong to
#the addmenubar function                
filemenu.add_command(label="Configura"command=self.configframe)         
        filemenu.add_command(label="Lavora")
                return menubar

        def configframe(self):
                self.set(bg="yellow")
                w=Label(self,fg="blue",text="prova")
                w.grid()
                self.update_idletasks()
                print "hello!"

#main

root=Tk()
applicazione=Application(root)
root.mainloop()
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------
remove "nospam" from email address to answer
-----------------------------------------------------


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Mar 21 20:17:26 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 20:17:26 -0500
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
In-Reply-To: <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHIEBODJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com>
References: <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHIEBODJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com>
Message-ID: <oq7ko5xuxl.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[Ken Seehof]

> > Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> > 
> > > Is there an obvious reason why modules imported from the current
> > > directory don't have an absolute pathname for __file__?

> I keep bumping into that one too.  [...]

There is another tiny bit in that area which might be debated as well.

`__file__' is not defined for the `__main__' module.  But `sys.argv[0]' in
that case contains the information one might have hoped out of `__file__'.
I would like if `__file__' was just dependably defined in all circumstances,
the best the Python interpreter can.  If this was done, the programmer would
then not have to resort anymore to convoluted code for finding the directory
and file for the current module.  Or maybe there is trick I do not know?

The only reason that would come to mind for not having `__file__' defined
is that some other platforms or systems (I'm only experienced with Python
on Linux) might have a hard time getting that information.  But even then,
if it is the case, is really sticking to the least common denominator the
proper approach?  Maybe `__file__' being set to the empty string in such
cases might be better than letting it undefined.

On the other hand, I would understand there is a difficulty with `__file__'
within a script read by the interpreter from standard input, or compiled
from the contents of a string.  I'm not sure what is the best approach in
those cases.  I still think the best would be that `__file__' be always
defined, in the most sensible way, whatever that may mean! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 30 18:30:52 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:30:52 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a85es5$a95$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <uacib9l9gppl60@news.supernews.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:a85es5$a95$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
> Terry Reedy <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ...
> > Proposed amendment: call the new type 'truth' instead of 'bool' and
> > change the title of the PEP to "Formalizing a Python truth type".
> ...lots of arguments snipped
>
> A *very* good idea.

Agreed.

John Roth




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Mar 26 12:55:26 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:55:26 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017132761.23147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EC2o8.16544$Ii4.7434@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote ...
> [Neil Schemenauer]
> > PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code
>
> No problem, Neil!  He had already projected both the depth and sincerity
of
> your sorrow to six significant digits, and seemed quite pleased that doing
> so didn't exhaust his supply of available zeroes.  He's off factoring
primes
> again (I think he's on to something humans may have missed), so all is
well.
>
>
Tim:

This pathetic fiction that you and the bot have separate identities won't
fool anyone. Come clean, before the supply of available ones runs out and
you are left with only zeroes.

even-the-mc6809-has-its-limits-ly y'rs  - steve






From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 17:19:05 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:19:05 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF937E8C8C.480EAEAF-ON88256B6F.0077CDAD@i2.com>

[Timothy Delaney]
> For the record (I've said this before), I like the idea of integers
> being iterable (and I'm not a set theory wonk).

[Alan Daniels]
> That's fine if you like the idea. I don't. The only validations
> I've seen for it are obscure references to set theory, or the vague
> notion that it looks neat since it would make Python read more like
> Haskell (or insert whatever favorite research langugage here). I have
> yet to see any meaningful explanation on how it fixes some gap in
> Python, or improves it other than saving the need to type the word
> "xrange".

The actual PEP has a "rationale" section.  Neither set theory nor Haskell
come into play in the rationale.  If you are happy with xrange when dealing
with the indices of indexed-collections, then you will not be swayed by the
rationale for PEP 276.  Not everyone has thought xrange to be ideal,
though.

> While I'm at it, two problems with it that I haven't yet seen
> addressed:
>
>  1) If you have a class that defines both __int__ and __getitem__
>     methods, and iterate over an instance of it, which method "wins"
>     comes iteration time? The usual, or the "for i in 5" trick?

PEP 276 doesn't propose any tricks.  It suggests adding an iterator to the
int class.  If you define your own class with an instance x, and do "for i
in x" the for-loop will try to get an iterator from your instance x -- just
because that's what the for-loop does. PEP 276 doesn't affect this behavior
in any way.


>     Maybe this is covered in PEP 276. I've read through it once when
>     it was first introduced and didn't see any mention on how this
>     would be handled. I'd read it through again, but it's late and
>     frankly reading it makes my skin crawl.

Don't worry, I have some ointment for you <wink>.  (Seriously though, is
that kind of comment really necessary?  I understand that you strongly
dislike the proposal.  But throwing in zingers isn't very considerate).


> 2) Anyone new to the language will wonder exactly why it is that they
>     can iterate over ints, strings, tuples, lists, dictionaries,
>     files, generators, and indeed, any class instance that implements
>     an iterable interface...
>
>     ...but not floats. Hey, if "for i in 5" means something, then
>     obviously "for i in 5.0" should mean something too, right? That's
>     what a newbie will think, and what good reason answer will anyone
>     be able to give them?

Play with some code and see if you can come up with a meaningful, useful,
practical, and reasonable-to-implement definition for a sequence of numbers
related to a given floating point number x.  I suspect that you will find a
lot of tricky issues.

> As I've come to think of it, the whole point of
> "iterating" is that the programmer is walking through a collection:

Others clearly agree with this perspective.  I think that it is
overly-restrictive to say that the *only* thing that you can iterate is a
collection.

> I can NEVER bring myself to see an integer as a collection,
> not outside of a lecture on number theory, anyway.

There's no requirement to think about number theory or to view integers as
collections here.  All that is suggested is a slightly-less cluttered (than
current) way to iterate the indices of an indexed-collection.  If you are
happy with range/xrange, so be it.

> Sorry to rant, but this is the only idea for Python I've seen
> in a VERY long time, since the 1.5.2 days, where rather than
> capturing my interest and giving me something to contemplate, just
> strikes me as ugly, and stays ugly no matter how long I look at it.

Well then, I guess you'll be giving PEP 276 high marks for "originality"
<wink>.

Jim




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 19:23:55 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:23:55 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OFBAE3CD7A.F5312526-ON88256B70.0001241E@i2.com>

[Jim]
> Another issue that I have is that the syntax does not work outside of a
> for-loop header.  I want to be able to create integer intervals anywhere
in
> my code, not just in the header of a for-loop.

[David Eppstein]
> [x for 3 <= x < 10]

Agreed, the for+relational syntax works in list comp.s.  (Again, I was
lumping list comp.s in with for-loops).

I was thinking in a more general sense: I would like to create an iterator
with start, end, and step values and pass it into a function without first
actualizing it as a list (like one would have to do using for+relational in
conjunction with list comp.s).  And use the same construct in for-loops,
list comp.s, etc.  (For those just tuning in: I realize that I can create a
class for this -- actually, I already have.  I'm refering to proposals for
new idioms in Python for iterating intervals of integers.)

Jim




From brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk  Wed Mar  6 02:07:48 2002
From: brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk (Brian Elmegaard)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 08:07:48 +0100
Subject: PDF solutions?
References: <mailman.1015343048.21786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wkpu2i18e3.fsf@mail.afm.dtu.dk>

"Steven D. Arnold" <stevena at neosynapse.net> writes:

> (2) I need to be able to merge multiple PDF files together.

This may be done with pdflatex and the pdfpages package. An example on
http://www.et.dtu.dk/staff/be/latex/pdfpages. 
-- 
Brian (remove the sport for mail)
http://www.rk-speed.dk http://fiduso.dk http://sunsite.auc.dk/dk-tug
\TeX, tak.


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Tue Mar  5 22:23:42 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 03:23:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015359549.22569.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8b2tt.ksj.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:17:28 -0800, James_Althoff at i2.com
<James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote: 
>> However, I still think the potential for unintended effects
>> (bugs) is too big when a one-element sequence behaves substantially
>> different from the element itself.  Imagine if Python had a character
>> type and that
>>         "abc" == ['a', 'b', 'c'] == 'd' != "d"
>>
>> Even though it can be explained, what utter confusion it would
>> result in actual use!
>
>Sorry, I'm a little confused by this one.  Example: "for x in ['spam']" is
>not the same as "for x in 'spam'".  Isn't that a case "when a one-element
>sequence behaves substantially different from the element itself" in this
>context?

OK, I used the wrong words here.  I meant to say that an element of a
sequence being functionally equivalent to another sequence of the same type
but different.  This excludes cases like "d"[0]=="d".  But if "d" produces
the same effect as "abc" under some circumstances, it would be very
confusing.  Likewise if "spam" produces the same effect as ["spam", "egg"].

The reason is not philosophical.  It's just that human minds are easy to
confuse on these matters, so we want exceptions in all such cases:

"spam".append("eggs")
x, y, z = "d"
x, y, z = 3
[f(x) for x in (4 in 3) in (2 in 3) if x in (x+1 in x*2)] # just for fun. :-)

>> Here's another example of a similar nature.  In Matlab there is a
>> fuction sum(x) that would return sum of elements of x, if x is a
>> (row or column) vector, or a row vector of columnwise sums of x,
>> if x is a matrix.  This is very handy when used in isolation, but
>> a pain in programs, because the behavior on (1xm) matrix has a
>> different semantics.  Suppose x is a (5x4) matrix.  Then (using
>> Python syntax instead of Matlab's)
>>         sum(a[0:n:, :])
>> would give a (nx4) matrix for n in 5, 4, 3, 2, but for n==1,
>> it gives a scalar which is the sum of x as a row vector.
>
>Not really following that example either.  Sorry.

OK, I have to admit that this does not really apply.  Syntacitically (6,) is
quite different from (6).  So it is not like the Matlab situation where a
1xn matrix is treated as a row vector.  So you could argue that they are not
neighbors and there is no discontinuity.  However, in terms of human
behavior (typo frequency) they are indeed close to each other.  This is
similar to the relation between "=" and "==".

On the other hand, in the special case where 0 and 1 are used as logical
values your proposal is in fact consistent.  This is a plus.


Huaiyu


From joonas at olen.to  Sat Mar 23 04:17:21 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:21 +0200
Subject: load html frameset out of Python script
References: <30cf5082.0203221039.791cab07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C4821.E33D36CF@olen.to>

Andreas wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I am trying to set up a html site with frames. I want to load the
> frameset out of a Python script.
> Frameset definition:
> 
 
    [html snipped]

> 
> I load this with the following code:
> 
> File = "%s" % ('frameset.html')
> PageHandle = open(File, "r")
> PageInput = PageHandle.read()
> PageHandle.close()
> Display(PageInput)
> 
> ...the html file will be found but I can see just an empty page.
> 
> What can I do to realize this problem?
> Is it possible to write in a specific frame from my scripts?

What does that function Dispay do. Can you show the whole script, not
just a part of it.


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 25 15:25:16 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:25:16 GMT
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
References: <mailman.1016488083.29655.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <uzo0wwfw8.fsf@python.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.org> writes:

> Depending on how many problems are found in this release, 2.2.1
> final or a second release candidate will follow next week.

It will be 2.2.1c2 and it will be released in about 22 hours time.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I'm not sure that the ability to create routing diagrams 
  similar to pretzels with mad cow disease is actually a 
  marketable skill.                                     -- Steve Levin
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From oc at opencontact.org  Wed Mar 27 10:35:32 2002
From: oc at opencontact.org (William Levin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:35:32 GMT
Subject: OpenContact.org
Message-ID: <3CA1E66E.1070205@opencontact.org>

Hello,

This is an invitation for Open Source enthusiasts and contact management 
software developers to join OpenContact.org, a new online forum for the 
discussion of contact management systems.

The ultimate goal of OpenContact.org is to explore options for 
integrating a centralized contact management database into the operating 
system; and to develop an extensive set of standard fields (akin to 
vCard) for universally compatible contact management.  This would allow 
every third-party application on a computer to access the same contact 
data set, and eliminate the need to import and export contact data on a 
single system.

More information is available at http://opencontact.org

The site is in its infancy, and will greatly benefit from your 
knowledgeable contribution!

Additionally, if your company would like to be affiliated with the
OpenContact.org initiative, we will gladly exchange links on our site.

Sincerely,

William Levin
--
http://OpenContact.org



From alf at logilab.fr  Wed Mar 27 06:15:44 2002
From: alf at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:15:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Web Programming Book?
References: <mailman.1017219892.5320.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3af0.g1f.alf@sagittarius.logilab.fr>

Simon Brunning wrote:
  
> Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming" sounds *exactly* right for you - it
> covers web programming (both client & server side) *and* database
> programming in some depth.
>  

+1 ! Excellent book.

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From aahzpy at panix.com  Thu Mar 21 19:25:49 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 19:25:49 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <a7diqu$7am$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9A680A.F00216D2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7dtmd$dcj$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3C9A680A.F00216D2 at hotmail.com>,
Marc  <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have the reload in there because I'm developing this program now and
>I want to be able to change different files without tracking down all
>of the dependencies each time.

That's not a problem.  reload() is only useful in some limited contexts
where you can't stop a running program; if your program exits between
runs, there is no reason whatsoever to use reload().  I have no clue why
you're having a problem with reload(), but I've never had a reason to
use it myself and therefore am not familiar with its intricacies.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 15:03:20 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:03:20 -0800
Subject: wxPython and wxFlexGridSizer problem
In-Reply-To: <3CA0D05D.B42BF0E1@ccvcorp.com>
References: <a7n3bk$7q362$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<3C9FBE22.A72B4A27@ccvcorp.com>
	<a7pjoa$7v6aq$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
	<mailman.1017168041.4446.python-list@python.org>
	<3CA0D05D.B42BF0E1@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020326120320.5c29cc38.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:47:41 -0800
Jeff Shannon wrote:

> 
> 
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> > Also, I notice that your calls to gridSizer.Add are incorrect.  The
second
> > argument is supposed to be a boolean flag indicating whether the widget
> > should be expanded in the sizer's primary direction (in the case of a
> > wxFlexGridSizer, I'm not sure what that means, but you still need the
> > argument, at least as a placeholder).  The wxALL and wxALIGN_* flags
should
> > be the third argument.
> 
> Oooh, I missed that, the first time through.  Actually, though, the
second
> argument isn't a boolean, though, it's an integer, which represents the
> weighting given to that item when expanded.  (If you add item 1 with
weight 2,
> item 2 with weight 0, and item 3 with weight 1, then any expanded space
will be
> split up, with 2/3 of it going to item 1 and 1/3 going to item 3...)

Ah.  I think that when I first started using wxPython I read that but for
some reason couldn't get it working right (sizers can be as painful as they
are helpful) and simply started using 1 or 0 and over time my mental
prototype for this method "corrected" itself to match.  I'll have to give
this another try as it would be a useful feature.

Is the meaning of this flag consistent across the different types of
sizers, or is this only for wxBoxSizer?

Thanks.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar  4 18:44:19 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 15:44:19 -0800
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for        numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org> <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <mailman.1015092245.20363.python-list@python.org> <slrna87sk7.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <slrna87vg9.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <7xbse3j3u4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu) writes:
> So my question now is:  What do I do to tell Python to compile with -lieee?

I just edited the makefile and found the LIBS line and added -lieee.
I didn't uncomment that #define that you found.


From thomas at gatsoft.no  Thu Mar 14 07:55:07 2002
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:55:07 GMT
Subject: XML-RPC Question
References: <cf0ad9fb.0203140407.2356290b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <L41k8.70$5Kn.175400448@news.telia.no>

I'm not sure about this, but I think SimpleXMLRPCServer only provide access
to the methods of the object you "publish", in your example the methods of
MyClass, nothing else.

system.listMethods() comes from .... .NET ??

I migth be wrong, and if so, please let me know.

Thomas

"Jesper Olsen" <jolsen at mailme.dk> wrote in message
news:cf0ad9fb.0203140407.2356290b at posting.google.com...
> Has anyone used the SimpleXMLRPCServer class?
>
> Setting up a server goes something like this:
>
>     from SimpleXMLRPCServer import *
>
>     class MyClass:
>         def helloWorld(self):
>             return "Hello World!"
>
>         def echo(self, text):
>             return text
>
>     myob=MyClass()
>
>     server=SimpleXMLRPCServer(("",50000))
>     server.register_function(myob.helloWorld)
>     server.serve_forever()
>
> The server can now be accessed by a client, e.g.:
>
>     import xmlrpclib
>
>     srv=xmlrpclib.Server("http://localhost:50000")
>
>     try:
>         print srv.helloWorld()
>         print srv.system.listMethods()
>     except xmlrpclib.Error, v:
>         print "Error", v
>
> The first srv.helloWorld() call succeeds, but srv.system.listMethods()
results
> in a "Fault 1" exception "system.listMethods" is not supported...
>
> Is there something wrong here, or does SimpleXMLRPCServer, not support
> the listMethods() call?
>
> Cheers
> Jesper




From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Thu Mar  7 14:27:52 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:27:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Integers class...?
Message-ID: <slrna8ffpo.dba.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

With all this talk about iteration etc. I just thought I'd chuck in
another idea. It is similar to several earlier ideas (and may even
have been proposed in exactly this form before -- I just haven't seen
it, or at least can't remember it).

One of the interval syntaxes (e.g. for for-loops) I'd like is
something like [0, 2 .. 10], similar to Haskell. This would require
syntax changes in Python, which is a bit unrealistic, but we already
have the three-dot Ellipsis, which is legal when indexing stuff.
Creating an Integers class with a standard-named instance 'ints', one
could do stuff like this (assuming for the moment that it's found in a
separate module):

  from ints import ints

  for x in ints[0, 2, ..., 10]:
      print x

The exact semantics (open/closed end etc.) would need to be decided
on, of course, but the implementation is trivial -- with iterators it
would be very simple to have infinite, lazy sequences too, like this:

  for x in ints[0, ...]:
      foobar(x)

Yes, this is just syntactic sugar (which for some might be "line
noise" -- a matter of taste, as always) for range(), but I think the
ellipsis notation is quite intutitive. Dropping the name in front of
the square brackets would be nice, of course, but that's less
realistic, I guess :)

Perhaps we could even make range indexable?

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 20 04:43:04 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:43:04 +0100
Subject: py2exe 0.3.1 hangs trying to remove build under Win98SE
References: <88bc63c6.0203191142.1926b089@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a79ljo$jksjs$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Doug Farrell" <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:88bc63c6.0203191142.1926b089 at posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to package up a Python2.2 program that uses wxPython with
> the py2exe system and I'm having no luck. I open up a DOS window (I'm
> running Win98SE) and run the following command line:
>
> python pyexe.py myscript.py
>
> The pyexe.py setup script is something I got from ASPN that is a
> generalized setup script for this purpose, I've listed it below:
>
> from distutils.core import setup
> import sys, os, py2exe
>
> name = sys.argv[1]
> sys.argv[1] = 'py2exe'
>
> sys.path.append(os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(name)))
>
> setup(name=name[:-3], scripts=[name])
>
>
> At the end of processing, I get the message:
> removing 'build\bdist.win32\winexe' (and everything under it)
>
> At this point the DOS window hangs and never returns. In fact I have
> trouble killing it with the Task Manager. In addition, at this point
> Windows Explorer no longer runs, it comes up, but the window frame is
> empty. I have to reboot my machine to get full control back.
>

Doug, I cannot reproduce this (at least with a trivial script under Win98SE).
One thing I noted when I tried this: the build script cannot have the
name 'py2exe.py', because in this case 'import py2exe' imports your
compile script! You should rename it to something like 'compile.py',
and be sure to delete any py2exe.pyc or py2exe.pyo which may have been
created. I think this was mentioned in the ASPN recipe.

> The script does create the dist directory where I expect it and there
> is a myscript.exe and accompanying DLL's and such there. But if I try
> to run that program, a DOS window comes up with various tracebacks in
> it about not being able to import various modules. The myscript.py
> file runs fine in the interpreter. Anyone have any idea what's going
> on here? I'm runnig py2exe version 0.3.1, so I have the latest.
>
Depending on the modules your script uses, py2exe may have problems
finding them. You should specify them to be included with the --includes
or --packages flag.

Thomas




From theller at python.net  Fri Mar 22 06:22:05 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:22:05 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a79jmp$jg0ba$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <j41yefk0tw.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C9A5C93.4DF63794@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7f450$khj83$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:3C9A5C93.4DF63794 at ccvcorp.com...
> > > Problems with freeze, IMO, are that it requires a C-compiler,
> > > which most people on windows do not have...
> >
> > In the context of distutils, absence of a compiler may not be a
> > problem: people building packages with distutils will need a compiler,
> > atleast if the package contains extension modules.
>
> Yes, but it is entirely possible that someone may be building a pure
> Python application, and wish to distribute that as a single file.  It
> would be desirable (though probably not essential) to require a C compiler
> only in those cases where custom C extension modules are used.

This may still (at least on windows) require extension modules:
there are a lot of modules in separate dlls - just look into your
python\DLLs directory.

>
> For instance, I'm working on an application that uses wxPython and
> win32all, but all of my own code is pure Python.  It's an internal
> utility, so ease-of-packaging isn't a big priority (it's not too big of a
> deal for me to install ActivePython + wxPython + my own bdist_wininst
> package on each of the half-dozen machines that will need it), but I can
> easily imagine a case in which it would be preferable to have a
> single-file installer that would manage all of this automatically.

Gordon's installer can create single file executables (which unpack
dlls if you run them, and remove the dlls afterwards), also it can
create a very simple minded installation program.
Myself, I'm happy to either distribute zip-files or directories full
of files (for internal use), or windows installers (WISE, or Innodist)
for external use.

Thomas




From ponderor at lycos.com  Sat Mar 16 02:04:11 2002
From: ponderor at lycos.com (Dean Goodmanson)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 23:04:11 -0800
Subject: This may seem a slightly strange problem ...
References: <jSSm1aIaVlk8Ewdu@[127.0.0.1]>
Message-ID: <e81be8b2.0203152304.396e7ef7@posting.google.com>

> But, aside from that, any advice on thinking up programs to write?

Try Useless Python: http://www.lowerstandard.com/python
for a community of similar folks..

..and the Python Challange: http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/pythonchallenge.html
for inspiration.


From cpbotha at i_triple_e.org  Sat Mar 30 07:16:16 2002
From: cpbotha at i_triple_e.org (Charl P. Botha)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:16:16 GMT
Subject: GUI programming
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org> <a84561$p5g$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <slrnaabbct.npb.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>

In article <a84561$p5g$1 at wanadoo.fr>, Emmanuelgagniere wrote:
> wxpython is the best one
> 
> Umesh Persad <upersad at tstt.net.tt> a ?crit dans le message :
> mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list at python.org...
>> available. I am wondering which one should I use
>> (tkinter, wxpython?) that will be simple enough
>> to get me up and running qiuckly. Also are there
>> any examples that I can look at?

I'm not denying that wxPython is a very powerful UI library, but the fact
that Tkinter is included with Python and that Tk is installed on most *ix
systems by default (and very easy to install on windows systems) should not
be underestimated.

With wxPython, one has to get, configure and build wxWindows first (and this
does take quite a while).  If on *ix, one has to make sure that one has a
current/functional installation of GTK, which could potentially mean
configuring and building once again.  After all of this, wxPython itself has
to be made.  All in all, this can be very frustrating to new users.

My 2c,

-- 
charl p. botha http://cpbotha.net/ http://visualisation.tudelft.nl/


From hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr  Sat Mar  2 04:30:47 2002
From: hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 10:30:47 +0100
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELMOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELMOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <m3k7sviaew.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> > # Python 2.2
> >
> > >>> 1e-200**2
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')
> 
> That one is surprising and definitely not intended:  it suggests your
> platform libm is setting errno to ERANGE for pow(1e-200, 2.0), or that your
> platform C headers define INFINITY but incorrectly, or that your platform C
> headers define HUGE_VAL but incorrectly, or that your platform C compiler
> generates bad code, or optimizes incorrectly, for negating and/or comparing

I just tested and found the same behaviour, on RedHat Linux 7.1
running on a Pentium machine. Python 2.1, compiled and running on the
same machine, returns 0. So does the Python 1.5.2 that comes with the
RedHat installation. Although there might certainly be something wrong
with the C compiler and/or header files, something has likely changed
in Python as well in going to 2.2, the only other explanation I see
would be a compiler optimization bug that didn't have an effect with
earlier Python releases.

> OverflowError before.  Please file a bug report with full details about
> which operating system, Python version, compiler and C libraries you're
> using (then it's going to take a wizard with access to all that stuff to
> trace into it and determine the true cause).

I am willing to look into this if no one else does. But it won't be
immediately.

Konrad.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Konrad Hinsen                            | E-Mail: hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr
Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24
Rue Charles Sadron                       | Fax:  +33-2.38.63.15.17
45071 Orleans Cedex 2                    | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/
France                                   | Nederlands/Francais
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 19:03:25 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 19:03:25 -0500
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <83sn6udbxu.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:
> That is certainly possible; freeze would be the obvious choice for
> such a mechanism (IMO). Alas, distutils is unmaintained, so don't wait
> for anybody else to implement it for you.

That's rather shocking.  How did distutils get to be unmaintained?



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 13:49:29 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:49:29 -0800
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
References: <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHIEBODJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com> <mailman.1016759981.31552.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B7CB9.9EC64693@ccvcorp.com>


Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> [Ken Seehof]
>
> > > Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> > >
> > > > Is there an obvious reason why modules imported from the current
> > > > directory don't have an absolute pathname for __file__?
>
> > I keep bumping into that one too.  [...]
>
> There is another tiny bit in that area which might be debated as well.
>
> `__file__' is not defined for the `__main__' module.  But `sys.argv[0]' in
> that case contains the information one might have hoped out of `__file__'.
> I would like if `__file__' was just dependably defined in all circumstances,
> the best the Python interpreter can.  ....

I like this idea a lot.  Even if, for __main__, we ended up with __file__ being
(potentially) '<standard input>', or '<from string>', or even None, it'd be nice
to be able to depend on the name being defined.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From kirill_simonov at mail.ru  Sun Mar 31 18:43:09 2002
From: kirill_simonov at mail.ru (Kirill Simonov)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 02:43:09 +0300
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com> <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020331234309.GA704@abulafia.local>

* Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de>:
> Can you show examples of (real!) code that will break? Preferably code
> you've written yourself.

The changes will break the code like this:

if type(arg) == type(''):
    ...
elif type(arg) == type(0):
    ...

You can find such code even in the standard library.


-- 
xi



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar  4 13:27:30 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:27:30 +0300
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
In-Reply-To: <7vOg8.10828$hK4.4034599@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>; from torstenson@no-spam.oti-hsv.com on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 11:56:36AM -0600
References: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7vOg8.10828$hK4.4034599@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020304212730.D11643@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 11:56:36AM -0600, Eric Torstenson wrote:
> OK, imported __builtin__ and used __builtin__.open(blah, blah) and got the
> same result, so I am guessing that is not a matter of function hiding, but
> some other error that I am just being blind to.

   Try to call it "open(filename, 'w')" - that is, without "mode="...

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 21:07:19 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:07:19 -0500
Subject: chopping a string
References: <m3bse3j1e4.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <3C842857.275363E7@engcorp.com>

David Bear wrote:
> 
> there's gotta be an easier way.  I have a string
> "    something  somethingelse    "
> 
> note the leading a trailing whitespace.  I'd like to grab the first
> word and strip whitespace.  I came up with
> 
>  string.join(string.split(string.strip(str))[:1])
> 
> but I'm thinking, there must be a better way?  better means (faster) (smaller)..

Did you try this?

>>> a = '  test  this   '
>>> a.split()
['test', 'this']
>>> a.split()[0]
'test'


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar 18 03:56:18 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:56:18 +0300
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
In-Reply-To: <a72ajf.3vs6o4v.1@kserver.org>; from usenet@thinkspot.net on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 02:52:30PM -0800
References: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list@python.org> <a71o2b.3vsbk85.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016402254.12742.python-list@python.org> <a72ajf.3vs6o4v.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <20020318115618.B2199@phd.pp.ru>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 02:52:30PM -0800, Sheila King wrote:
> >    The simplest (though not the best) solution would be to distribute a
> > copy of the email package with your code. You know, Python inserts the path
> > to your application in the beginning of sys.path, so upon "import email"
> > your copy of the package will be imported, and not standard package.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> Out of curiousity...what is the *best* (or better) method???

   There is no "one size fits all" solution. You can distribute email
package with your own setup.py, and instruct your user to install it
separately, or just install it automatically in your package's setup.py. Or
you may instruct a user to download mimelib from mimelib.sf.net and install
it. Or wait for Python 2.3. It depends on who your users are and what do
you want to achieve - do you want to distribute updates to the email
packages every time it gets updates, do you want to instruct users to
remove your version of the email package when Python 2.3 will appear, and
so on.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From Luap777 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 31 10:24:41 2002
From: Luap777 at hotmail.com (Paul)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 07:24:41 -0800
Subject: Possible to save router logs?
Message-ID: <bbde2416.0203310724.4150665d@posting.google.com>

I have a D-Link 704 cable/DSL router. Unfortunately, it has very
limited logging capabilities(in that it doesn't save logs, it just
rights over them when the space fills.) What I would like to do is
right a program to save the logs to my hard drive every 12 hours or
so. I normally have to access the web page with the url being the
local IP of the router, then type in a password to get access to the
logs. Has anyone attempted something like this? I know this is kinda
general, but any feedback would be appreciated. It might give me an
idea of where to begin. Thank you.


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Mar 19 04:50:21 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:50:21 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <xRDl8.10641$Hz2.42334@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Martin v. Loewis:
> "Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:
>
> >    Unfortunately, I haven't had time recently to push the PEP any
further.
> > I'm also less certain of its cost / benefit ratio than I was initially
as it
> > does complexify the Python library code a bit.
>
> I still think this is the way to go. For character data, use Unicode
> where you can - in particular if the operating system interface
> supports that, as well.

   It is the right approach but in terms of packaging its a mess and this
will have a maintenance cost. Perhaps moving all the NT specific Unicode
handling into a separate file would help although I haven't seen a clean way
to do that either as it will then require a bunch of forwarding functions.
If there was a good way to subclass posixmodule for this code...

   Neil





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Mar 13 06:05:57 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:05:57 +0300
Subject: load_site.py error
In-Reply-To: <20020313103119.20866.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com>; from manish_ssharma@yahoo.com on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 02:31:19AM -0800
References: <20020313103119.20866.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313140556.C27310@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 02:31:19AM -0800, Manish Sharma wrote:
> I want to upload some files in zope using load_site.py
> While running the command in python i m getting the error Syntex error : invalid token
> 
> the command statement is
> 
> >>> python .\load_site.py -u manish:manishkumar -D http:localhost:8080/test/  /tests/
> 
> here test is a folder created in zope manager and tests is come with Load_site kit having three .htm files.

   The last /test/ is a folder on a disk, from where you are going to
upload files. Are you sure it exists? Give correct path.

> i tried wxLoadSite.py through python 
> >>> python .\wxLoadSite.py
> it also giving the same error of invalid token
> 
> if i will use >>> python ./wxLoadSite.py it will give error Syntex Error : invalid syntax

   Do not give the command inside python - give it in your command line.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 12 21:32:18 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:32:18 -0500
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
References: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015972703.8850.python-list@python.org> <Exyj8.11281$f33.2556230824@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EBA31.610BD39D@engcorp.com>

googlePoster wrote:
> 
> in the interest of full disclosure, I should have said
> since I am using python as a gvim scripting tool I
> must import the gvim variable, colors_name, before
> I can work with it

Ah, posting real code is always the best approach. :)

> E121: Undefined variable: colors_name
> E15: Invalid expression: colors_name
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>   File "testMe.py", line 36, in ?
>     curr_color = vim.eval("colors_name")
> vim.error: invalid expression

"vim.error" is the key.  It is highly likely that that is
a vim-specific exception which you should be catching instead
of NameError.  Try this:

try:
    curr_color = vim.eval("colors_name")
except vim.error:
    curr_color = None

if curr_color:
    print "colorscheme: %s" % curr_color
else:
    print "no color scheme"

You might also try typing 

:py import vim; vim.error.__class__.__bases__

and see what it reports.  If it mentions something
like (<class exceptions.ValueError at 0x09d98d987d>,)
you will have a better idea what it represents.
RTFM might help too, if you can find a mention of it.

-Peter


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 25 15:15:23 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:15:23 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <20020325113323.A26319@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEJLOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
> No.  len([f(x) for x in y]) == len(y) whenever no exception occurs,
> regardless of the form of f() or type of y.

[Neil Schemenauer]
> Looks like the bot needs a bugfix:

Nope, an exception occurs in your example when evaluating

    len([f(x) for x in f()]) == len(f())

and the bot refused to say anything about what happens then (I confirmed
that this was intentional, and he was quite irked (for a bot) that I
questioned him on this point).  As you show below, one also occurs when a
non-bot human substitutes len(f), which is a different expression entirely.
Also not covered are cases where len(y) returns an object that raises an
exception when "==" tries to compare it.

>     >>> def f():
>     ...   for x in range(10):
>     ...     yield x
>     ...
>     >>> len(f)
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     TypeError: len() of unsized object
>     >>> len([int(x) for x in f()])
>     10
>
> Hmm, should len() should work on pure iterators?

I don't think so (the bot has no opinion on this, btw), and deliberately
left len() alone when generalizing "sequence contexts" for 2.2.  __len__ is
best thought of as a functional (no side-effect) method of sequences nd
mappings, and there's generally no reason to suppose that len(iterable)
wouldn't be destructive -- the iterator protocol doesn't have any notion of
resetting, and some iterators can't be restarted.  So the potential for
suprise is high, and the few sane use cases are easily programmed
explicitly; e.g., len(list(f)), or a loop to drive the iterator and count
how many times it goes around.




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Thu Mar 14 22:03:12 2002
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:03:12 GMT
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016139985.26979.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Qvdk8.14659$4d.1903351@news1.west.cox.net>

James_Althoff wrote:
> Here's a q&d sample implementation in case anyone wants to test out the
> idea before deciding on its merits.
[Implementation of keys, iterkeys, values, itervalues, etc. for a list
object]

FWIW, here's the corresponding implementation in terms of generic functions
instead of methods, an approach I like better than the method approach.

# itertools.py
"""
Tools for working with iterables.

Note: several of these functions assumes that if an object has a
'keys' method, it will also have an 'iterkeys' method and they will be
consistent.

Contents:

* keys(I) / iterkeys(I) -> list / iterator for I's keys

>>> list(iterkeys('abcd'))
[0, 1, 2, 3]
>>> _sorted(iterkeys({'fee' : 'one', 'fie' : 'two', 'foe' : 'three', 'fum' :
'four'}))
['fee', 'fie', 'foe', 'fum']

* values(I) / itervalues(I) -> return a list / iterator for I's values

>>> list(itervalues('abcd'))
['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
>>> _sorted(itervalues({'fee' : 'one', 'fie' : 'two', 'foe' : 'three', 'fum'
: 'four'}))
['four', 'one', 'three', 'two']

* items(I) / iteritems(I) -> list / iterator for I's items [(key, value)
pairs]

>>> list(iteritems('abcd'))
[(0, 'a'), (1, 'b'), (2, 'c'), (3, 'd')]
>>> _sorted(iteritems({'fee' : 'one', 'fie' : 'two', 'foe' : 'three', 'fum'
: 'four'}))
[('fee', 'one'), ('fie', 'two'), ('foe', 'three'), ('fum', 'four')]

* iterzip(I1, [I2, [...]]) -> lazy version of zip.

>>> list(iterzip('abcdef', [1,2,3,4], ('cold', 'warm', 'hot')))
[('a', 1, 'cold'), ('b', 2, 'warm'), ('c', 3, 'hot')]


"""
from __future__ import generators

def _sorted(iterable):
    l = list(iterable)
    l.sort()
    return l

def iterkeys(iterable):
    """iterkeys(I) -> iterator for I's keys"""
    if hasattr(iterable, 'iterkeys'):
        for k in iterable.iterkeys():
            yield k
    else:
        k = 0
        for v in iterable:
            yield k
            k += 1

def keys(iterable):
    """keys(I) -> list of I's keys"""
    return list(iterkeys(iterable))

def itervalues(iterable):
    """itervalues(I) -> iterator for I's values"""
    if hasattr(iterable, 'itervalues'):
        for v in iterable.itervalues():
            yield v
    else:
        for v in iterable:
            yield v

def values(iterable):
    """values(I) -> list of I's values"""
    return list(itervalues(iterable))

def iteritems(iterable):
    """iteritems(I) -> iterator for I's items [(key, value) pairs]"""

    if hasattr(iterable, 'iteritems'):
        for i in iterable.iteritems():
            yield i
    else:
        k = 0
        for v in iterable:
            yield k, v
            k += 1

def items(iterable):
    """items(I) -> list of I's items [(key, value) pairs]"""
    return list(iteritems(iterable))

def iterzip(*args):
    """iterzip(I1 [, I2 [...]]) -> (I1[0], I2[0] ...), ...

    Return an iterator yielding tuples, where each tuple contains the
    i-th element from each of the argument iterables.  The iterator returns
    as many tuples as are in the shortest argument sequence.
"""
    if not args:
        raise TypeError("iterzip requires at least one sequence")
    iters = [iter(a) for a in args]
    while 1:
        value = []
        for i in iters:
            value.append(i.next())
        yield tuple(value)





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 12 18:08:14 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:08:14 -0600
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1FB@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1FB@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <15502.35422.24087.262906@beluga.mojam.com>

    [... 13 X 28 + 1 or 2 ...]
    Timothy> Why was this simple system never adopted?

As someone else said earlier in this thread, "latitude, longitude, attitude
(aka religion)".

S



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Thu Mar 14 10:50:39 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:50:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
Message-ID: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

Should I use Server or ServerProxy as the name for the ServerProxy
class in xmlrpclib? The standard docs use Server, while the effbot
seems to use ServerProxy, and

>>> xmlrpclib.Server is xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
1

so...

I find ServerProxy to be a more logical name, but the fact that I
can't find it mentioned in the docs makes me a bit wary of using
it... (On the other hand, ServerProxy is what's documented in the
docstring. What is the history behind this duality -- and what is the
motivation for the conflicting current usage?

- Magnus (who thinks that SimpleXMLRPCServer should be called
  xmlrpclib.Server, with xmlrpclib.ServerProxy being used as the
  server proxy... :)

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com  Sun Mar 17 20:36:53 2002
From: a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com (a.clarke11)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:36:53 +0000
Subject: how to print class names, not references
Message-ID: <3C9544B5.47CD0918@pop.ntlworld.com>

Hi,
I wrote a function of x, where later in the program x is substituted by
class names. In the function, print x is used, but this returns
<__main__.Player instance at 0x38b1ce90> rather than the plain old class
name that  I wanted.
How can I print the name instead?
Thanks for your help, Pythoneers...



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 14:01:33 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:01:33 -0800
Subject: eval()
References: <mailman.1016656653.29703.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B7F8D.CE9FCB24@ccvcorp.com>


maximilianscherr wrote:

> what does eval exactly do?

Cause trouble for people who use it when they don't need to.
;)

(And if you're not *completely* sure what it does, then it's
a safe bet that you don't need to use it.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar 21 18:03:31 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 23:03:31 GMT
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <mailman.1016313447.30968.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7dos3$2apu$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1016313447.30968.python-list at python.org>, 
  Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

>On 16-Mar-2002 Jeffrey-man wrote:
>> Hello, everybody!
>> I'm a newbie and I'm just learning. I know, it's a stupid question, but I
>> want to resolve it.
>> Learning the Begginers Guide, I found an exercise. It tells me:
>> "Write a program that continually reads in numbers from the user and adds
>> them together until the sum reaches 100."
>> Can anybody help me?

 ...

>> Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

> you misread the specification.

> You are to ask the user "give me a number", add that number to the 
> previous one (hint: use zero the first time), then check if the new 
> sum is less than the stopping point (100 in this case).  If the stopping 
> point is reached, cease asking for a number.

>Does that help?

 Shouldn't all these (helpful) examples be using raw_input() rather
 than input().  Do we really want the new user to be implicitly and
 blindly using eval(raw_input())?




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar 25 14:10:33 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 19:10:33 GMT
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017033998.23264.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7nsn9$irm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:25:15 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Tripp Scott]
>> thanks for the tip. actually, the essence of what i wanted to
>> ask was: "can that SOMETHING be a list of more than one elements
>> which will be _flatly_ added to the result list."
>
>No.  len([f(x) for x in y]) == len(y) whenever no exception occurs,
>regardless of the form of f() or type of y.
>
>> as another example, can i generate this list
>>
>>   [1,1  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4]
>>
>> with a list comprehension that contains one 'for' clause?
>
>Sure, via the obvious spelling:
>
>    [i for i in 1,1, 2,2,2, 3,3,3,3, 4,4]
>
>Cleverness can't improve one that.

Nope. Simple is best, but you _can_ also mess with 'for x in ...'

 >>> [x<2 and 1 or x<5 and 2 or x<9 and 3 or x<=11 and 4 for x in xrange(11)]
 [1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4]

which also has one 'for' clause ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ingoogni at home.nl  Thu Mar 21 08:42:03 2002
From: ingoogni at home.nl (ingo)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:42:03 GMT
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91D895B49DD95seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl>

in news:mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list at python.org Mark Gash
wrote: 

> The only way of defining the os name that I have found is then to
> examine the os.environ .By examining the COMSPEC you will be able to
> determine a win 9X machine opposed to an NT or 2000 machine (comspec
> for 9X will show command.com whereas win32 machines will show
> cmd.exe). 
> 

>>> os.environ['OS']
'Windows_NT'

No idea what it does on other platforms.

Ingo


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 02:46:15 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:46:15 -0600
Subject: PyQT: QString to String Problem if ASCII>128
In-Reply-To: <3C8916B7.E5396663@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEJIDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Ingo Linkweiler wrote:
> no ideas?
> 
> I found a possible solution, but is this the best way?
> 
>     uc=self.edit.text()
>     try:
>       t=str(uc)
>     except:
>       try:
>         t=unicode(self.edit.text()).encode("cp437")
>       except:
>         t="invalid char in string"

I guess you want something like

uc = self.edit.text()
t = unicode(uc).encode("cp437", errors="replace")

I can't test it here, though.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From janez.jere at void.si  Mon Mar 11 09:17:44 2002
From: janez.jere at void.si (Janez Jere)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:17:44 +0100
Subject: Zope stdin
References: <3C8BECF0.30207@void.si> <kkSi8.96385$V15.14380856@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <llbp8ug5u7kpo2q7f672hnpsdjo9dbae9o@4ax.com>

Are you sure? My echo is not working properly in ZCGI.
BTW, I dont want to run a separate process, i just want to read()
posted data AS in CGI.

Janez

# CGI script and test 
import sys, os
if len(sys.argv) == 1:
    print 'Content-Type: text/plain'
    print    
    #length = os.environ['CONTENT_LENGTH']    
    #print 'length', length
    print repr(sys.stdin.read())#int(length)))  
else:
    # test echo
    url = sys.argv[1]    
    import urllib2 as w
    
    x= w.urlopen(url, 'abc '*300)
    print 'read(%s):\n' % url, x.read()

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:51:44 GMT, Darrell <dgallion1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>http://www.zope.org/Members/haqa/ZCGI
>
>Janez Jere wrote:
>
>> HHi,
>> could anyone help me port my simple cgi to zope script. Problem which I
>> am unable to solve is reading posted raw data (legacy client posts a xml
>> document to my cgi and expects a result).
>> 
>> Among all my attempts the closest solutions are:
>> request.get(BODY) # BODYFILE a
>> and
>> request.stdin.read() # but it is not allowed to access read method.
>> 
>> #echo cgi
>> import sys, os
>> length = os.environ['CONTENT_LENGTH']
>> print 'Content-Type: text/plain'
>> print
>> print sys.stdin.read(int(length))
>> 
>> Thank for help.
>> Janez



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Mon Mar 11 15:31:50 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:31:50 GMT
Subject: COM traceback translation
Message-ID: <Wu8j8.9099$k5.3517961@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

can anybody help with this one? there is a module called test_write.  when
it is imported from a python prompt and generate_doc() is called it works
fine.  When it is invoked by a COM object it throws this error.

thanks,

doug



Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "X:\epsp2\server\bin\test_write.py", line 5, in generate_doc
    wordApp = win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application')
  File "C:\Python\win32com\client\__init__.py", line 94, in Dispatch
    dispatch, userName =
dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
  File "C:\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 81, in
_GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
  File "C:\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 72, in _GetGoodDispatch
    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.',
None, None)




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 13:57:19 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:57:19 -0800
Subject: How to delete/mainpulate global variables ??
References: <mailman.1016653600.19685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B7E8E.A9F639DC@ccvcorp.com>


Berenike Loos wrote:

> I am using two function in my program. The first one reads
> out some text of an TK entry field and puts it into a
> global variable. The other function has to read out the
> global variable and has to print out the text. Now the
> global variable should be deleted, so if I call the second
> function again without calling the first, NO text will be
> displayed. thx a lot

Well, first off, I'd point out that global variables are
usually not the best way to do things.  There's a fair
chance in any nontrivial program that they will be changed
in ways (or at times) that you don't expect them to.  But
the short answer to your question, is to have the second
function set the variable equal to None.

Var1 = None

def Func1():
    global Var1
    Var1 = GetValueFromWidget()

def Func2():
    global Var1
    if Var1 is not None:
        print Var1
        Var1 = None

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International







From posselt at brics.dk  Fri Mar  8 08:32:38 2002
From: posselt at brics.dk (Peter Posselt Vestergaard)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:32:38 +0100
Subject: returning a picture
Message-ID: <a6aefe$sf6$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>

Hi
I would like to be able to enter an URL to a python script in the src field
of an img tag in html. The script is then supposed to return a picture which
will be shown in the html-page.
I am loading and editing the picture the Python Image Library (PIL) but how
should I return/print it to do what I want?
Thanks
Regards
Peter Vestergaard




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 09:18:54 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:18:54 +0000
Subject: ReportLab Toolkit 1.13 Released
Message-ID: <HJGw1RAOTdo8Ew4q@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

ReportLab Toolkit version 1.13 released. Besides fixing some bugs and
improving existing features this release is compatible with Python 2.2. 

The pdfgen Canvas now has XObject images which means smaller PDF's. A
fast interface to the RXP xml parser is in the rl_addons project.

NB the old rl_config._verbose flag was renamed to verbose.

http://www.reportlab.com/ftp/ReportLab_1_13.zip
http://www.reportlab.com/ftp/ReportLab_1_13.tgz
-- 
Robin Becker


From msx at crs4.it  Fri Mar 15 03:33:55 2002
From: msx at crs4.it (Federico Caboni)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:33:55 +0100
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it> <slrna91io0.ha5.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8B77083.D1A%msx@crs4.it>

On 14-03-2002 17:08, in article slrna91io0.ha5.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk,
"phil hunt" <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:35:53 +0100, Federico Caboni <msx at crs4.it> wrote:
>> 
>> I recently bought "Programming Python" by O'Really,
> 
> Oh. Really?

LOL... Little typo ;)

  ____  ____  ____  _  _     ____  _  _  ____
 / ___)| __ \/ ___)/ /| |   / ___)| \| |/ ___) Federico Caboni (msx at crs4.it)
| (___ |    /\___ \\__  | * \___ \|    |\___ \ Software & Network Solutions
 \____)|_|\_\(____/   |_|   (____/|_|\_|(____/ Phone: +39 070 2796 368
  CRS4, Center for Adv. Studies, Research and Development in Sardinia



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar  7 12:21:20 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 17:21:20 GMT
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
References: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com> <7x7kope1n9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8f8cf.n0i.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <7x7kope1n9.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell) writes:
>> What do you think of this idea? Am I completely off base and missing
>> some other obvious solution?
> 
> It's a sound idea, but there's already a FastCGI protocol that amounts
> to the same thing and is used for the same reasons.  Someone has
> almost certainly already implemented FastCGI servers in Python.

We used the Apache mod_fastcgi for our site, and found it to be buggy
and unreliable, occasionally going catatonic, possibly due to a
deadlock of some sort in its process management code.  Neil wrote a
much simpler Apache module, mod_scgi, that just forwards the request
data to a server listening on a given port, and starting the server is
left up to you, so you can add an /etc/init.d script or whatever you
like.

Unfortunately we haven't wrapped up mod_scgi for release yet.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
One of *my* funny turns? The whole world took a funny turn...
    -- The Doctor, in "City of Death"




From printers at sendme.cz  Mon Mar 25 17:16:28 2002
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:16:28 +0100
Subject: How to get a key from  dictionary?
Message-ID: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost>

Hi,
Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key according to a 
value ?
For example
I have a dictionary

dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}

and 
dict['aa']
is 1

But how can I for value 1 find out  key? (That is here  'aa')

Thank you for help
Ladislav





From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Fri Mar  8 02:59:51 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 23:59:51 -0800
Subject: SWIG and abstract base class
References: <mailman.1015519873.10027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203072359.58049369@posting.google.com>

Luigi Ballabio <ballabio at mac.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015519873.10027.python-list at python.org>...
> At 08:01 AM 3/7/02 -0800, Helmut Zeisel wrote:
> >I want to use SWIG to create a Python module for
> >a C++ class hierarchy using abstract base classes:
> 
> Helmut,
>          I'm assuming that you're using a reasonably recent version of SWIG 
> (let's say >= 1.3.9).

1.3.11


> 
> class Base {
>    private:
>      Base();
>    public:
>      // whatever
> };
> 
> hope this helps,
>                  Luigi

I also had to add a private/protected ~Base(),
but now it works.

Thank you,

Helmut


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Mar 20 06:26:27 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 12:26:27 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a79jmp$jg0ba$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <j41yefk0tw.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a79o73$iirln$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <j4g02viios.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> writes:

> Do you think that PyImport_FrozenModule() should be extended to handle
> compressed byte codes? 

Yes, this is what I had in mind.

> Or should freeze simply append the compressed byte codes to the
> executable (as py2exe and installer do it) instead of compiling them
> with the C-compiler?

That can't work portably across compilers and operating systems.

> An interesting idea would be to additionally distribute Python and
> extension modules (on windows) not only as dlls, but also as static
> libraries. In this case only a linker would be needed, and you avoid
> the problems compiling all the sources...

If you use freeze, you will still need a compiler. But I agree that a
static library would be nice to have.

> Another possibility would be to use a program creating a standalone
> exe-file from exe and dlls. I have once tried such a program, it worked
> in simple cases, but not for Python. Then I wrote some code (in python)
> myself to do this, it is very tricky, but certainly possible.

This sounds platform-specific, so it is not very interesting to me.

Regards,
Martin


From see at below  Mon Mar 11 06:16:45 2002
From: see at below (Paul Foley)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 00:16:45 +1300
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com> <WAui8.3186$bK5.428@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <m2d6ybpd5u.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:51:02 GMT, logistix  wrote:

> I ain't no lisp expert (so please don't yell at me Paul F. ; ) ), but the
> interpreter is a read-eval-apply loop.

> 1. A statement is READ in
> 2. The arguments are EVALuated (unless short circuited by a quote)
> 3. The evaluated arguements are APPLYed to the function, result is returned

1. A form is READ in
2. The form is evaluated
3. The results are printed   [CL supports multiple values]

The evaluation consists of first evaluating the arguments to
functions, but QUOTE forms are evaluated, too; its value is just its
argument, unevaluated.  QUOTE is one of a small number of hard-wired
things called "special operators" that have special meaning and don't
follow the normal evaluation rules.

E.g., ignoring a few details,

  def EVAL (form):
      # macroexpand form here
      if type(form) is not type([]):
         # if it's a symbol, return its symbol-value
         return form
      elif form[0] is QUOTE:
         if len(form) != 2:
            raise SomeException
         return form[1]
      # other special forms here
      else:
         return apply(form[0], map(EVAL, form[1:]))


[Many implementations don't actually have an interpreter at all, and
implement EVAL as something more like

  (defun eval (form)
    (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () , at form))))

i.e., just compile a function whose body is the form in question, and
immediately execute the newly-compiled function.  `(lambda () , at form)
means essentially "[LAMBDA, []] + form" in Python]

> "N Becker" <nbecker at fred.net> wrote in message
> news:1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14 at posting.google.com...
>> Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
>> a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).
>> 
>> I wonder if there is anything new.  It looks to me that the
>> best answer is to use lambda.

Quoting code for later evaluation with EVAL is almost guaranteed not
to be what you want, anyway.  LAMBDA is the right thing.


-- 
Oh dear god.  In case you weren't aware, "ad hominem" is not latin for
"the user of this technique is a fine debater."
                                                      -- Thomas F. Burdick
(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Mar 19 03:39:17 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:39:17 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Andrew Markebo:

> I am messing a bit with my bookmarks (gonna sync them between a bunch
> of computers and browsers) and now comes the question.. How does
> os.listdir in the windows-compiled python handle international
> characters?

   If the characters can not be represented in the current code page you get
'?' instead.

> But do we know that it is latin-1? How would we handle chineese
> characters? Someone said the filenames were unicoded, how do I
> encode/decode the filename som I can get it into UTF-8??

   PEP 277 looks at providing more Unicode file name support including
extending os.listdir to return Unicode strings.
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0277.html
   Unfortunately, I haven't had time recently to push the PEP any further.
I'm also less certain of its cost / benefit ratio than I was initially as it
does complexify the Python library code a bit.

> p.s.2 what is the status on win9x? Give it up or ;-)

   More difficult as 9x doesn't have API support for retrieving the Unicode
names, so it could require reading the directory bytes directly.

   Neil





From python at rcn.com  Fri Mar 15 07:52:11 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:52:11 -0500
Subject: converting reference name to string ?
References: <14b2057b.0203150254.2480f7ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6sqqi$e0g$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Since objects can be bound to more than one variable,
the question, what is my name, doesn't translate to
what variables am I bound to.

The .__name__ attribute can tell you where something
was created but not what it is bound to.

In your example,
>>> def a(): hello
>>> d = a
>>> d.__name__   # surprise!
'a'                          # this is where it was defined, not where its
bound

There is a way to find out which variables an object is bound to;
however, it is both arcane and evil in its intent.  Generally, if an
object needs to know what things refer to it, then there is a design
flaw.


Raymond



"tleduc" <thibaut.leduc at ac-lille.fr> wrote in message
news:14b2057b.0203150254.2480f7ae at posting.google.com...
> example:
>
> def a():
>   print 'hello'
>
> ==> string is   a.__name__
>
> but for instances:
>
> class myclass:
>   ....etc....
>
> b = myclass()
> c = myclass()
>
> in execution of this script, how do i get reference string 'a' 'b' or 'c'
?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Thibaut




From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 19 04:05:37 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 10:05:37 +0100
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

>    Unfortunately, I haven't had time recently to push the PEP any further.
> I'm also less certain of its cost / benefit ratio than I was initially as it
> does complexify the Python library code a bit.

I still think this is the way to go. For character data, use Unicode
where you can - in particular if the operating system interface
supports that, as well.

Regards,
Martin



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar 18 17:08:34 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:08:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <slrna9cpb2.ddl.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <eJKk8.25431$n4.4999276 at newsc.telia.net>, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>> I find ServerProxy to be a more logical name, but the fact that I
>> can't find it mentioned in the docs makes me a bit wary of using
>> it... (On the other hand, ServerProxy is what's documented in the
>> docstring. What is the history behind this duality -- and what is the
>> motivation for the conflicting current usage?
>
>the original code used Server -- after all, the object is
>representing a remote server.

Well, that's one way of seeing it; but it *is* an xmlrpc *client*, no?
Of course, any "proxyish" client could be said to represent a server,
but calling them servers seems to muddle things, IMO.

I haven't had any problems with the Server naming, really; it just
seems a bit odd when I have a server object on each end of the
network... And things become even weirder when I write peer-to-peer
stuff, where one object is both client and server... Or, in this case
"server and server". Then it *is* one and *represents* the other
(through the proxy class).

>the (rather lame) ServerProxy alias was added later, after
>enough people had flamed me over the original naming...

OK. I just saw you using it in some code somewhere, and assumed that
perhaps it was the (i.e. your) preferred usage. I guess it wasn't,
then :)

>> who thinks that SimpleXMLRPCServer should be called
>> xmlrpclib.Server, with xmlrpclib.ServerProxy being used as the
>> server proxy...
>
>most XML-RPC users don't use/need server functionality,
>and shouldn't have to pay for something they don't use...

Pay for? How so? By having to load the code? Oh, well. I didn't really
see this as a realistic wish anyway.

></F>

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From krissepu at vip.fi  Tue Mar  5 04:15:00 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (pekka niiranen)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:15:00 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.2  for HPUX 10.20 does not work
References: <mailman.1014671543.6120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C848CBF.9000201@vip.fi>

Hi,

I tried the build script below in HP-UX 10.20
( HP-UX B.10.20 A 9000/777 2002144332 two-user license)
and got the following errors during make:

cc -Ae -c -DNDEBUG -O -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o 
Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
(Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -A option is available only with the 
C/ANSI C product; ignored.
(Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -O option is available only with the 
C/ANSI C product; ignored.
cpp: "Python.h", line 44: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "pyport.h", line 86: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "pyport.h", line 419: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "pyport.h", line 437: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "pyport.h", line 86: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "pyport.h", line 419: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "pyport.h", line 437: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "objimpl.h", line 187: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing directive.
cpp: "unicodeobject.h", line 73: warning 2013: Unknown preprocessing 
directive.
(Bundled) cc: "Include/pymem.h", line 88: error 1000: Unexpected symbol: 
"size_t".
(Bundled) cc: "Include/object.h", line 103: error 1000: Unexpected 
symbol: "*".
(Bundled) cc: "Include/object.h", line 104: error 1000: Unexpected 
symbol: "*".
(Bundled) cc: error 2017: Cannot recover from earlier errors, terminating.
*** Error exit code 
1                                                        


Anybody had luck with compiling ?
       
-pekka-

czrpb wrote:

>Michael:
>
>That seemed to work, thanks!
>
>Could I bother you to explain why and more importantly why Python
>itself can not figure this out?
>
>thanks!! -- Quentin
>
>--- In python-list at y..., Michael Piotrowski <mxp at d...> wrote:
>
>>"czrpb" <nanotech at e...> writes:
>>
>>>I am having the following issues compiling:
>>>
>>>HPUX 11.0
>>>=========
>>>
>>[...]
>>
>>I just tried building Python 2.2 on HP-UX and had no problems; here's
>>my build script:
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>#! /usr/bin/sh
>>
>>unset LANG
>>export CCOPTS='+z'
>>
>>make distclean
>>
>>CC=cc ./configure --without-gcc --without-cxx \
>> --prefix=/opt/python && make
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>HTH
>>
>>-- 
>>Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at d...>
>>-- 
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>

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From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 01:33:10 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:33:10 -0700
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
References: <mailman.1017181541.7972.python-list@python.org> <8Rco8.1017$0b.176940@news1.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <a7rp54$d4o$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Tim Hochberg wrote:

> Try this out! For n=100, it's only twice as fast, but try it for n=1000, or
> n=2000 and it really shines.... (I think it even gives the right answer,
> which is a plus.)

Well, 

In [22]: def fact4(n):
   ....:     from sys import maxint
   ....:     mult = 1
   ....:     result = 1L
   ....:     subresult = 1
   ....:     max_sub_result = maxint / n
   ....:     for mult in range(n+1):
   ....:         subresult *= mult
   ....:         if subresult > max_sub_result:
   ....:             result *= subresult
   ....:             subresult = 1
   ....:     return result * subresult
   ....:

In [23]: fact4 10
-------> fact4 (10)
Out[23]: 0L

That doesn't look right to me.

It's hard to say what the op was after, but in general when you need large n 
factorials it's rare to truly need exact results. If you can live with an 
approximate answer (good to 10 sig figs or so), then a constant-time solution 
is vastly preferrable. Note that this is far from optimal, it's a 3 minute 
port of the standard routine from NumRecipes. But it will do in a pinch:

from Numeric import *
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
def gammln(x):
    """Return the natural log of gamma(x)"""

    cof = array([76.18009172947146,-86.50532032941677,
                 24.01409824083091,-1.231739572450155,
                 0.1208650973866179e-2,-0.5395239384953e-5],Float)

    y = arange(x+1,x+7,typecode = Float)
    tmp = x+5.5
    tmp -= (x+0.5)*log(tmp)
    ser = 1.000000000190015 + sum(cof/y)
    return -tmp+log(2.5066282746310005*ser/x)

def fact5(n):
    return long(round(exp(gammln(n+1))))
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This solution obviously has two limitations:

- not exact, but quite good. Look at a numerical comparison with an exact (but 
super-slow) solution:

def fact6(n):
  return  reduce(operator.mul, range(1,n+1), 1L )

In [27]: fact5 50
-------> fact5 (50)
Out[27]: 30414093203509286326338827883471693198716826006464232959556714496L

In [28]: fact6 50
-------> fact6 (50)
Out[28]: 30414093201713378043612608166064768844377641568960512000000000000L

In [29]: 1.0*(_28-_27)/_27  # force float div
Out[29]: -5.9048555901676581e-11

So that's pretty good numerically.

- can't go outside the float range.

In most 'typical' cases, neither of these is a problem (since you can write 
most large n problems in terms of logs anyway, which is numerically much 
saner).

Cheers,

f.


From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 11 10:40:40 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:40:40 +0000
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
In-Reply-To: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020311154040.GC12733@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 07:31:55AM -0800, Graz Bukanoff wrote:
> Is Python an object based programming langauge?

Short answer: Yes

Medium answer: What do you mean?  But the answer's yes.

Long answer: http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From tim_one at email.msn.com  Fri Mar  1 13:18:33 2002
From: tim_one at email.msn.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:18:33 -0500
Subject: Does python have a  function  like similar_text  in PHP
In-Reply-To: <61ff32e3.0203010850.3aedc22f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEIIOAAA.tim_one@email.msn.com>

[ron nixon]
> Does anyone know if Python has a function like similar_text in PHP. It
> compares two strings and returns a percentage for the match.

The .ratio() method of SequenceMatcher objects looks like a similar gimmick,
returning a "similarity score" as a float in [0, 1]:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/sequence-matcher.html




From david at dataovation.com  Sat Mar  9 17:59:08 2002
From: david at dataovation.com (David McInnis)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:59:08 -0800
Subject: httplib question
In-Reply-To: <m37kol9yi0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <00c101c1c7be$058e73a0$9865fea9@bigdaddy>

I am on a Win2k machine (I have access to a linux box too).  Where can I
learn how to activate the SSL Support at compile time?  I did not see
this option when I installed (I used the windows installer).

Thanks,
David McInnis

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of Martin v. Loewis
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 2:18 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: httplib question

"David McInnis" <david at dataovation.com> writes:

> I need to write a small client that can access https (SSL) page?  Is
> this possible with httplib under 2.1?  

It is possible, but you need SSL support in your socket
module. Whether your socket module provides SSL support depends on the
platform you are using, and whether SSL support was activated at
compile time.

Regards,
Martin

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar 18 17:21:18 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:21:18 GMT
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com> <Xns91D31A8FD3696cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <cf4a8ef1.0203180955.55313155@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a75p8u$4ge$0@216.39.172.122>

On 18 Mar 2002 09:55:18 -0800, surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub) wrote:

>Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<Xns91D31A8FD3696cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82>...
>> surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub) wrote in 
>> news:cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac at posting.google.com:
>> > Hi,
>> > I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
>> > speed.
>> 
>> Welcome
>> 
>> >I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
>> > The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
>> > supposed to be
>> > 
>> > uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)
>> > 
>> > However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
>> > 
>> > uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
>> > how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..
>> > string.lstrip does not work either.
>> 
>> i don't see what you're doing. please post some example code alomg 
>> with such questions. however some guesses:
>> 
>> if you have a list of numbers: n = [1,2,3,4]
>> you can make string of it using: ','.join(map(str,n))
>> 
>> or are you parsing the numbers from a string? then you could try:
>> >>> import string
>> >>> n = map(string.strip, '1, 2, 3, 4'.split(','))
>> 
>> and if want numbers instead of strings in the list:
>> >>> n = map(int, '1, 2, 3, 4'.split(','))
>> 
>> (*) "map" is simply calling the 1st argument (a function) with each 
>> element of the list 2nd arg and saves the result in a list which it 
>> returns.
>> you can achieve the same with a "for" loop over the list and saving 
>> the result in an other list, but i find the "map" is very elegant.
>> 
>> chris
>
>Ok here is the code..I just need a set of uid's and other similar
>parameters which i need to feed to ldap.these are just a dummy set of
>values.
>=============================================================
>#!/usr/local/bin/python
>import string
>
>MIN=0
>MAX=25
>UID="UID"
>val=""
There is no need to bind val to "" here. You are not reserving space for a value
when you do this in Python. Python takes care of space for you. val="" just tells
Python to make a linkage between the name val and the constant "" so you can use
val later to look up the value you bound it to.
>for x in range(MIN,MAX,1):
In this case, your range expression could be written range(MAX) because of the defaults
of zero start and one for step. However, since you have defined a symbol for the start
value, it should probably be carried through as range(MIN, MAX).
>    if( x == 0 ):
>        x=str(x)
>        val=UID,x+','
>        st=string.join(val,"")
>        st=string.strip(st)
That sure is working hard to accomplish (BTW, why the strip?)
         st = "%s%d," % (UID,x)
>        print st,
>    elif(x > 0 ):
>        x=str(x)
>        val='UID'+x+',',
Why the comma here -----^  ? Just to make the next line necessary? 
>        st=string.replace(string.join(val,""),' ','')
I urge you to play more at the command line. Notice:
 >>> x='0'
 >>> val='UID'+x+',',
 >>> val
 ('UID0,',)

now leaving off the comma:
 >>> val='UID'+x+','
 >>> val
 'UID0,'

which is what you wanted, right? ;-)
>        print st,
>==========================================================
>
>The output that this script produces is 
>
>UID0, UID1, UID2, UID3, UID4, UID5, UID6, UID7, UID8, UID9, UID10,
>UID11, UID12, UID13, UID14, UID15, UID16, UID17, UID18, UID19, UID20,
>UID21, UID22, UID23, UID24,
>
>
>Notice the spaces between the , and the UID
>============================================
>I need to get rid of these spaces.How do i do it..
>
>Thanks

The spaces come from the print statements, not the data. The solution is a lot
easier than your code ;-)

For an explanation of print, please read

    http://www.python.org/doc/ref/print.html

Print prefixes a space in front of its output unless it is at the beginning of a line,
or some special condition applies (like something else having written to stdout).

Most of the time, this works out fine, but when it doesn't there are several ways to
do what you want.

1) Join your output into a line before printing, e.g., using your parameters:
 >>> MIN=0
 >>> MAX=25
 >>> UID="UID"
 >>> print ','.join([UID+str(i) for i in xrange(MIN,MAX)])
 UID0,UID1,UID2,UID3,UID4,UID5,UID6,UID7,UID8,UID9,UID10,UID11,UID12,UID13,UID14,UID15,UID1
 6,UID17,UID18,UID19,UID20,UID21,UID22,UID23,UID24

(The output is a single line that wrapped).

2) You could make yourself a printf function that works very much like C, with no automatic
spaces or newlines (leaving out return value for less interactive confusion):

def printf(fmt, *args):
    import sys
    sys.stdout.write(fmt % args)

Then you can use it like:
 >>> for i in xrange(MIN,MAX):
 ...     if i == 0:
 ...         printf('%s%d',UID,i)
 ...     else:
 ...         printf(',%s%d',UID,i)
 ...
 UID0,UID1,UID2,UID3,UID4,UID5,UID6,UID7,UID8,UID9,UID10,UID11,UID12,UID13,UID14,UID15,UID1
 6,UID17,UID18,UID19,UID20,UID21,UID22,UID23,UID24>>>

(Note that the >>> prompt came without a newline before it, so we might want to add a plain
print after the for loop is done).

3) We could directly manipulate sys.stdout.softspace to kill the space prefixing that
results from the comma at the end of the print lines:

 >>> for i in xrange(MIN,MAX):
 ...     if i == 0:
 ...         print '%s%d' % (UID,i),
 ...     else:
 ...         print ',%s%d' % (UID,i),
 ...     sys.stdout.softspace = 0
 ...
 UID0,UID1,UID2,UID3,UID4,UID5,UID6,UID7,UID8,UID9,UID10,UID11,UID12,UID13,UID14,UID15,UID1
 6,UID17,UID18,UID19,UID20,UID21,UID22,UID23,UID24>>>

I'm not sure softspace was intended to be used that way.

 You could make the leading comma conditional in the format various ways too, e.g. using printf():
 >>> for i in xrange(MIN,MAX):
 ...     printf('%s%s%d', i and ',' or '', UID, i)
 ...
 UID0,UID1,UID2,UID3,UID4,UID5,UID6,UID7,UID8,UID9,UID10,UID11,UID12,UID13,UID14,UID15,UID1
 6,UID17,UID18,UID19,UID20,UID21,UID22,UID23,UID24>>>

(The expression i and ',' or '' results in '' if i==0 and ',' otherwise).

HTH,

Regards,
Bengt Richter

<PS. to dev gurus>
Why is a de-dented-to-zero line not accepted interactively?
Couldn't it postpone execution until a later blank line,
and not demand an immediate one, once in the mode of accepting
multiple lines? It would be handy for showing an example like
the above with a single print at the end.
</PS. to dev gurus>



From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 14 12:14:24 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:14:24 GMT
Subject: Conditional Import
References: <MPG.16fa9c939672ccf62@enews.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <uelinqdaa.fsf@python.net>

Danil <danil at ultranet.com> writes:

> Is there a standard python idiom for coping with importing one of several 
> libraries?
> 
> Right now, I've this hack in the middle of my code
> 
> try:
>     from codeop import CommandCompiler
> except:

make that 

except ImportError:

>     from MockCommandCompiler import CommandCompiler
> 
> But if I have to put up with a work around like this, I'd prefer that it 
> be fairly elegant.  Or at least standard...

try:...except ImportError:...

is standard.


> p.s. because codeop.CommandCompiler fails in 2.1,

I know, I wrote it for 2.2... do the workarounds mentioned in the
docs:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-codeop.html

help?

> and I've yet to find a recipe that will get me to Win32 + Python 2.2
> + pygtk.  That help would be appreciated too; I've been unable to
> find or build a _gtk.pyd that python22 will import.

Can't help you here.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  (ps: don't feed the lawyers: they just lose their fear of humans)
                                         -- Peter Wood, comp.lang.lisp


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 18:49:19 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 00:49:19 +0100
Subject: is'nt Tkinter a standard module?
References: <a7r0jl$253u@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <m3n0wuzy80.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Rajarshi Guha <rxg218 at psu.edu> writes:

> Is'nt the Tkinter module supposed to be a standard part of Python? 

Yes, but it may be that your Linux distributor has chosen to put
Tkinter in a separate package, so that Python, in itself, does not
need to depend on Tk.

Regards,
Martin



From sag at hydrosphere.com  Thu Mar  7 17:45:17 2002
From: sag at hydrosphere.com (Sue Giller)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:45:17 -0700
Subject: Problem with VB-COM-Python arg passing/value returning 
Message-ID: <20020307224100390.AAA134@mail.climatedata.com@SUEW2000>

I am hoping that someone here can help me with the following 
problem.

I have an application that uses a VB 6 front end and python 
backend.  The VB app creates some python COM objects and calls 
those objects to get python to do the work.  The VB just displays 
results, etc.  This is on W2000, SP2, python is
'2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]'

In one case, I am passing a VB class object to the python COM 
object. This contains a set of complicated configuration settings for 
a python object to use when it does its thing.  In that VB class 
object, there are some functions that allow python to obtain data 
stored in that class object.

If the function in the VB class does not have any input args, then the 
return from that function to python is correct.

However, if the VB class does have input args, then the values of 
those args are appended to the end of the return values.  If I change 
the value of the input args, that changed value is reflected in the 
returned data.  If I use 'Byval' for the arg, I get a python error "List() 
args must be a sequence"

Can anyone explain what is going on here?  Is this a bug?  Can I 
assume that I can discard the trailing items in ALL cases where I 
pass an arg(s) to such a function?

VB pseudo code, python pseudo code, very simplified

VBclass					           'class with function being used
public property get NeedsArg(arg1) as variant
	NeedsArg = 1					' should return a single item
end property						' all type returns have the problem
public property get NoArgs() as variant
	NoArgs = 1
end property
public property get ByValArg(byval arg1) as variant
	ByValArg = 1
end property

'create the python com object that uses the vb class
pythonObject = CreateObject("python.comthing")
'create the class instance to be passed
vbObject = new VBClass
'pass object to python
pythonObject.UseMe(vbObject)					

python class						# python class set up as COM
_public_methods_ = [ 'UseMe' ]
_reg_progid_ = "python.comthing"
 _reg_clsid_ = blah blah blah

def UseMe(vbObject):
	idobj = win32com.client.Dispatch(vbObject)
	info = idobj.NeedsArg("abc")
	print `info`						# prints out (1,'abc')
	info = idobj.NoArgs()
	print `info`						# prints out (1) as it should
	info = idobj.ByValArg("abc")	# raises python error:  
									#Type Error:  list () argument 
must be a sequence
	print `info`



From watercoolerwar at netscape.net  Tue Mar 19 01:45:13 2002
From: watercoolerwar at netscape.net (Alex K. Angelopoulos)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:45:13 -0500
Subject: modifications of PythonWin?
Message-ID: <a76mps$itrmm$1@ID-136433.news.dfncis.de>

Per Murphy's law, I will stumble across this 30 seconds after I post.

I'm looking for information on the PythonWin IDE - specifically, any modifications or customizations that may have been done to it in the past.  I have found the sources to it, of course, as well as the basic documentation on it - which seems to be very well done, but is a bit dense for someone who is "MSVC-impaired" such as myself.  I'm grinding through it right now, but I think I would do a bit better if I could see some "hacks" that have been done to it...

Is anyone aware of open modifications made to the PythonWin environment for special purposes - hopefully with links or a couple of search terms I can use to find such mods?  I've come up with nothing but the "real" PythonWin using PythonWin as a search term.



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sun Mar 17 03:48:23 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:48:23 +1100
Subject: Relieved but disappointed: The Pariah thread
Message-ID: <3C945857.64A9F2D8@optushome.com.au>

While I was much relieved that Mark Hammond took my mischievous "Has
Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?" post with the good humour for
which that noble, heterogenous breed of people known as Aussies are
justly renowned, I was a bit disappointed that no-one at all commented
on the pictorial reference which I gave to sum up my view of the
.NETification of Python:
http://www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/010250100.html

OK, I know that the etymology of the name Python is non-herpetic, but
that historic photograph may nevertheless be a valuable shorthand for
expressing one's views on, for instance, a PEP which proposes yet
another syntactic addition...

Tim C

PS The newspaper article which prompted the post featured a picture of
Mark, and not only is his name remarkably similar to that of a famous
Australian National Park ranger, he even looks like a younger version of
Ed Devereaux...and his email address is mhammond at skippinet.com.au
...hmmm.

TC



From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Wed Mar 13 08:43:01 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:43:01 GMT
Subject: module import in cgi scripts
References: <slrna8ugie.tc.Dag@omally.animagicnet.no>
Message-ID: <uvgc0futs.fsf@online.no>

Have you checked the sys.path from within the running cgi script? It's
just a hunch but the cgi process might run under an account that
doesn't have the sys.path that you require, No?
-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Mar 22 09:41:14 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 08:41:14 -0600
Subject: multithreading and Tkinter
References: <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu> <mailman.1016728725.9585.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <B132035595FB08E7.786B66A8F97F0AB0.814AF925001F55DE@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.1016728725.9585.python-list at python.org>,
Laura Creighton  <lac at strakt.com> wrote:
>> Greetings:
>> How do I signal the GUI thread that new information for a particular
>> object has arrived?  Currently I'm using after() method of the Tkinter
>> object to update info for *all* objects every second, but that is
>> hardly a good design, since there may be 500 of them, and the new info
>> can be arriving once every 15 minutes.
>> 
>> Any ideas and/or pointers to the documentation (preferably online)
>> highly appreciated.
>
>You want to use Queue.Queue() to make yourself a nice incoming
>queue, and fill it with the data that arrived and the object(s) that 
>care(s) about it.  You'll still use after, but you will only update
>the objects that care, and only when something has arrived.  See
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82965
>
>Laura Creighton
>

Excellent advice from both Laura and Aahz.

There's been very casual chatter among Tk insiders about
(in Tkinter-speak) making update a method of individual
widgets.  It definitely doesn't exist now, it appears to
require guru-level concentration, and we're still not
sure it's even feasible in some appropriate sense;
however, I think it's worth alerting readers of this
thread that there's a possibility of an interesting
enhancement in the indefinite future.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar  4 01:06:26 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:06:26 -0600
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
In-Reply-To: <24c39b2c.0203032114.3df9e523@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGELPDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

> Hmm, ok, can you tell me how I can convert such a string back to the
> ISO8859-1 character set so that I can write it to a text file?

It appears that it already *is* in the right character set.
Unfortunately, you seem to be converting it to a different
representation sometimes, quite unintentionally, when you
output it.

Try this and see how it works.

  import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc

  outfile = open("myfile.txt", 'w')

  con = odbc.connect(...)
  c = con.cursor()
  c.execute(...)

  record = c.fetchone()    # record is a tuple
  my_string = c[1]
  print my_string   # print the string, not the tuple
  outfile.write(my_string + '\n')   # write the string, not the tuple

  c.close()
  con.close()
  outfile.close()

> The strange thing is, that when I read umlauts from a textfile and
> print them to standard out, they remain intact. Only when they come
> from the database driver are they converted to this hex
> representation.

It's not the database or mxODBC that's doing it.

The "hex representation" is just Python source code.
Nothing too weird about it; that's how Python programmers put
strings into programs.

Suppose you type this.

  >>> x = '123\n\txyz\n'

Now in memory there's a string that has 9 characters in it,
not 12.  Your '\n' has been converted to a single byte,
with the value 10 (a newline character).  The '\t' has been
converted to a single byte with the value 9 (a tab character).

  >>> print len(x)
  9
  >>> print ord(x[3])  # the value of the '\n' character
  10
  >>> print ord(x[4])  # the value of the '\t' character
  9

Now, suppose we print this string two different ways.

  >>> print x
  123
        xyz

  >>> print repr(x)
  '123\n\txyz\n'

See the difference?  When you do "print x", Python dumps those
characters to your console.  The newline characters, which you
entered as '\n', are now displayed as line breaks, and the tab
character, which you entered as '\t', is displayed as an
indentation.  Likewise, depending on your console, the
character you could enter as '\xd6' might be displayed as a
Latin capital letter O with diaeresis (aka umlaut).

When you do "print repr(x)", Python converts x *back* into
Python-source-code form and displays the result.

Which of these is the true internal representation of x?
Neither.  The internal representation is 9 bytes of data--
a bunch of numbers, really, not characters or pixels or
source code.

When you print a tuple, it tries to display itself in
Python-source-code format.  This means, basically, calling
repr() on its contents.  Not what you want.

In order to display a string usefully, you must print the
string itself, not the tuple that contains it.

Sorry to write at such length...  :(

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From sjones16 at rochester.rr.com  Sat Mar  2 20:09:53 2002
From: sjones16 at rochester.rr.com (Seth Jones)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:09:53 GMT
Subject: (Hopefully) simple IDLE question
References: <slWf8.19790$V15.3283629@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <11aed8f9.0203020225.4d8b7922@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BJeg8.162945$dh.42687659@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

> IDLEfork should handle the working directory correctly.
>
> See http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/

Thanks; that's exactly what I needed. Now if Idle just had vim integration,
I'd be in coding heaven. (c:

Keith.




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 19:08:46 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:08:46 -0500
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1015178825.27707.python-list@python.org> <a5t3f9.3vsf871.1@kserver.org> <Xns91C7AA1AE38AEdenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.25>
Message-ID: <3C840C8E.3FD1DF3D@engcorp.com>

Dennis Roark wrote:
> 
> First books in C++ are mostly a dissappointing lot, surprisingly so.
> The Lippman and Lajoie and books by Bruce Eckel are good for students
> who have some familiarity with programming.  I've used the Savitch and
> Main and Savitch books, and a host of others searching for the "perfect
> book".  I've considered D&D, but I could never stomach its approach (not
> truly object oriented from the ground up) and conceptual errors or
> weaknesses (some mentioned in this thread).  There will probably be many
> grumbles with this suggestion, but the best I have found for the first
> introduction is Lafore, Object Oriented Programming in C++.  But I am
> really interested in weaving Python into the CS courses including the
> first year courses.  I am taking tentative steps in that direction this
> year and next.

It was mentioned here in the past that Prof. Stefan Kremer at University
of Guelph (uoguelph.ca) was actively teaching Python to first-year students 
in CS.  Perhaps if you contact him you could gain the benefit of his 
experience.  (I don't think he reads this group.)

-Peter


From wall at adinet.com.uy  Fri Mar 22 23:45:22 2002
From: wall at adinet.com.uy (Walter Moreira)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:45:22 -0300
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
In-Reply-To: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@zope.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:59:15PM -0500
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20020323014522.C7591@casa.parque>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:59:15PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.

Why not Zope, and Page Templates?

Walter



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 08:28:20 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:28:20 +0000
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>
 <59667b81.0203221433.261c8210@posting.google.com>
 <da69ff6a.0203222241.405fd8a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Z8nnoJA0LIn8EwRA@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <da69ff6a.0203222241.405fd8a0 at posting.google.com>, Peter
Norvig <peter at norvig.com> writes
>I have some simple, inefficient CSP code in Python at
>http://www.norvig.com/python/csp.html
>
>Includes fintie domain backtracking search (with optional forward
>checking, domain ordering, and variable ordering); hill-climbing
>min-conflicts search; examples from map coloring, n-queens, and the
>zebra puzzle.
>
>-Peter
>
OK I searched and found the search.py and utils.py files at 

http://www.norvig.com/python

does the use of generators imply that I need Python 2.2? 
-- 
Robin Becker


From morton at dennisinter.com  Mon Mar 11 00:28:55 2002
From: morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 21:28:55 -0800
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com> <gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com> <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com> <3C8BBFD4.A29A69F1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <4abd9ce7.0203102128.67c7fa0d@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3C8BBFD4.A29A69F1 at engcorp.com>...
> damien morton wrote:
> > 
> > Check this out:
> > 
> > ('fox' in 'the quick brown fox')
> > ('the quick brown fox'.find('fox') != -1)
> > 
> > Which of these expressions is clearer, more intuitive and convenient?

> (Put another way, this question is a matter of opinion, and I'm 
> afraid yours is outweighed by the mass of existing Python code
> and programmers.  Nothing personal, but don't waste your time.)


The existing mass of python code would be unchanged. The only issue
that might occur is that something that is now an error, would not be.

It remains to be seen whether or not the mass of python programmers
are opposed.

No-one has taken me up on my question about what circumstances one
would want "'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'" to throw an exception,
rather than return a result.

[On a tangent... we now have proposals for a boolean type to be added
to Python, does this presage the addition of a char type also?]


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Sat Mar 16 01:29:19 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:29:19 +0900
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com> <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <OqBk8.300$ID.1955@news.hananet.net>

I'm going to restate the problem because I don't think I was very clear in 
the first place. (I'm not being rude, I just don't think that it was very 
well put now that I read it again.)

My problem is:
I don't have a windows box. I can't afford a windows box. I can't even 
afford a Big Mac right now. I don't have access to a windows box. This is 
because I am a jobless programmer who is looking for work, writing free 
software in the meantime. (And it looks like more and more I am going to 
have to find a job in the local grocery store).

I run a free software project that is trying to keep things compatible with 
Windows and Linux. So that means I am in *deep trouble* because I can't 
test windows directly. BUT! I do have a few guys who run windows and do try 
stuff out very actively. Unfortunately, they can't code well enough to do 
this themselves.

My question is twofold:
1) Where do I go to find a neat free software (READ: No problems with GPL) 
windows installer (that works on all windows platforms)? I could work 
through this on the Linux box and then have the guys on windows try stuff 
out realtime for me.

2) Can someone on this list help me (by writing the installer for me?) 
[Note: this is a plea for help out of desperation].

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote in comp.lang.python:
>> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a free software program (http://sf.net/projects/bttotalcontrol/)
>>> and I am having great difficulty writing an installation script for
>>> windows.
>>>
... 
>>> I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows
>>> machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a few
>>> people who actively test for the project at home.
>>> 
...
>> 
>> Why not find and use one of the several free installer programs, rather
>> than trying to write something from scratch yourself?
>>

Great idea. I'll do that. 
 
>> For example, try looking at google with "free windows installers" and
>> follow the first link you find.

To... http://www.wxwindows.org/technote/install.htm ? =)

I did try looking on google, and it looks like I have a choice between:

a) Windows Installer
b) WISE

None of which seem to be free. I remember a long time ago that there was a 
popular installer offering a free version for free software. Was I just 
seeing things or was that so?

> 
> NSIS rocks. But AFAIR his problem is that he doesn't have a Windows
> box to build the installer on.
> 

What is NSIS?

> The best solution to this problem is to give in and get a damn Windows
> box.  Even a virtual one with VMWare or Bochs will do. AFAIK Bochs can
> run at least Windows 95 and it even runs on non-x86 hardware.
> 

Bochs sounds cool, but I don't own a copy of Windows, nor do I plan on 
pirating a copy. However, in the meantime, I will dig around for an old Win 
95/98 disks that I can take from somebody who doesn't use it anymore (as 
this is perfectly legal).

Thanks for the suggestion.

Jonathan



From akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org  Mon Mar 25 09:01:19 2002
From: akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 14:01:19 GMT
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages 
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a7gdg4$l5hni$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller wrote:
> +           THE (= Thomas Heller) thinks the first option. IMO a home
> +           page for the user is much more useful until we get something
> +           like to CPAN. Source distributions are platform and version

OK.  It should be really easy to have two URLs, anyway, one for the
home page and another for the latest package or a package description
file of some sort.

> +     THE: IMO typically a few dozen packages are installed, so we
> +     probably have less than, say, one hundred files in the 'database',
> +     which should reside in a single directory. Also it is not very

Agreed, though I think a few hundred packages is certainly possible.
Another thing has made it clear to me that invidual files are the
right way to go: installers such as RPM or DPKG.  They can just drop
the new database file into the database directory.  If one large text
file or a binary file were used, the Python database would then have
to be updated by running a postinstall script.

> +         THE comments: The uninstall 'database' (which is a simple text
> +         file) which bdist_wininst installers create, contain entries
> +         for *every* file to be removed, this includes .pyc and .pyo
> +         files. On the other hand, MD5 digests or CRC checksums are
> +         probably not so useful for .pyc/.pyo files.

Hmm... I suppose it could simply ignore checksums on .pyc/.pyo files,
so we don't need a type field to tell us when to ignore them.  I can't
think of any other generated files that don't need to be checksummed.


>           * XXX do we need to store permissions?  The owner/group?
> +         THE: no, not on windows.

Really?  Even on Windows, couldn't files be potentially owned by
Administrator or some other user.  We should definitely have
permissions and owner/group on Unix; can you tell me what Windows
needs here?  (I assume MacOS X would be the same as Unix, and earlier
MacOS versions aren't multi-user, so they don't need anything.)

>           * The file's full path, as installed on the system.  (XXX
>             should it be relative to sys.prefix, or sys.prefix +
>             '/lib/python<version>?'  If so, full paths are still needed;
>             consider a package that installs a startup script such as
>             /etc/init.d/zope)
> +           THE: Only full paths should be in the database file.

I had the vague idea that relative paths might make it easier to
relocate packages.  On the other hand, maybe that's not something we
want to encourage...

>           * XXX some sort of type indicator, to indicate whether this is
>             a Python module, binary module, documentation file, config
>             file?  Do we need this?
> +           THE: No, we don't need this. There is no mechanism (now) how
> +           this could be specified, also I cannot think of a use case
> +           where it would be needed.

Neither could I.  :) I'll remove this, unless someone can suggest a
use for it.

> +     THE: Maybe I don't understand what you are talking about here. I
> +     have absolutely no idea how RPM or DPKG is working, so I'm only
> +     talking about bdist_wininst or maybe other windows installers
> +     here. win32all and wxPython are examples of very popular packages

I was wondering whether an RPM package should bother to update the
Python database, as RPM provides much the same functionality; if you
already have one database, why maintain two?  But you're right;
updating the database shouldn't be optional, and therefore RPM will
have to update it.  Luckily that will be easy to packagers to support, 
because of the one-file-per-package database.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
This supports reflection, which is the 90s way of writing self-
modifying code.
    -- John Aycock at IPC7, during his parsing talk



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar  4 16:18:30 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 13:18:30 -0800
Subject: Can Python do this?
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <7xvgccm5f5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrna87ohl.mtm.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <7xelj0m3q1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) writes:
> Really?
> ...
> >>> a.m
> <method A.m of B instance at 100e3f14>
> >>> getattr(a, 'm')
> <method A.m of B instance at 100e3f14>
> >>> 
> 
> Or did you mean something else?

Oops, thanks.  Yes, that's what I meant, but my test case had an error.
I'm glad getattr works the way I'd hoped/expected it did.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 01:44:50 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:44:50 -0500
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C8B00E2.75783719@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> Hmm, I don't really see the difference in practice between
> statically linking and installing a bunch of "private" DLLs
> that are only used by my app.  

Upgrades?  If you don't plan to distribute any new versions
of your program, or you don't mind redistributing multi-megabyte
packages just to fix a small bug, no problem.  I couldn't
probably think of other reasons (or maybe not).  Modularity
is generally good.  Less good for simple utilities.

> >> I don't know diddly about DLLs, so pardon the ignorant
> >> question: Can my DLLs be put in a private directory where my
> >> EXE can find them?  I'd rather not put anything in any public
> >> system directories.
> >
> > Yes, definitely.  Not entirely advisable if you're delivering
> > more than one program in the same manner,
> 
> Right now I don't exect to.  If I did, couldn't I make all of
> "my" apps look in the same place for "my" DLLs? I really hate
> the idea of my app putting things in "system" directories.

Not sure how you would make your app look elsewhere than in
the executable's directory for DLLs, if you need to avoid the
system directories.  Might be possible.  Anyone?

> AFAICT, there doesn't appear to be a practical way to have
> multiple versions of DLLs installed, so if you've got two apps
> that require different versions of DLLs, then one of the apps
> is screwed.

A good reason to use the everything-in-one-folder method and
not worry about it.

> > And I suppose there's the fact you'd be avoiding much of the
> > grief caused by dynamically linked apps and "DLL version hell"
> > by doing that, if you can spare the hard drive space (and most
> > users probably can these days).
> 
> Windows users... worried about drive space... ROTFL!

Who's worried?  Not me.  I thought you might be, and I didn't
want to insult you by saying I thought that would be silly.
If you don't care, then you have little reason not to go with
the options suggested.  Distributing to Windows users via
a single executable is actually worse than via an installer
(which would hide the multiple files if it's not statically
linked) since (a) they get cute icons in the Start menu, 
(b) they can uninstall without having to run Explorer and 
manually delete files, (c) you can split out parts that
should be modular (resources such as help files, etc.), and
(d) they're used to it and don't know what to do with an
executable (depending on the ignorance level of the user).

-Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 14 12:21:20 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:21:20 -0600
Subject: xmlrpclib.Server vs xmlrpclib.ServerProxy
In-Reply-To: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrna91hmf.4h8.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <15504.56336.145185.432869@beluga.mojam.com>

    Magnus> Should I use Server or ServerProxy as the name for the
    Magnus> ServerProxy class in xmlrpclib? The standard docs use Server,
    Magnus> while the effbot seems to use ServerProxy, ...

When xmlrpclib was originally released, the class that represents a remote
XML-RPC server was named "Server".  At some point it was decided that
calling it "ServerProxy" was more descriptive.  I would use ServerProxy for
new code.  I'll check the docs and make sure they are correct.

Note also that the code is

    class ServerProxy:
        ...

    # compatibility
    Server = ServerProxy

and that is the only place "Server" is used in the code or comments.
Everywhere else it is referred to as "ServerProxy".

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com  Fri Mar 15 10:01:05 2002
From: BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:01:05 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com> <a5sb2n$f2j$1@news.idiom.com> <gherman-8DACFF.16414204032002@news.t-online.com> <e81be8b2.0203041203.42895122@posting.google.com> <a6rk1v$oac$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <R0ok8.384993$Aw2.32284348@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"James T. Dennis" <jadestar at idiom.com> wrote in message
news:a6rk1v$oac$1 at news.idiom.com...
> Dean Goodmanson <ponderor at lycos.com> wrote:
>
>  One of his examples implements a priority queue by treating a list as a
"heap"
>  (his term); his example takes over 50 lines of code and he doesn't
clearly show
>  sample usage of this class.  After awhile I abandonned my pondering of
his code
>  and wrote my own from scratch (as a dictionary of queues with a list of
the
>  keys to sort into priority order).

Actually, 'heap' is the correct word (assuming that he's using it in the
correct way -- don't have the book in question) and most algorithms texts
will implement priority queues in terms of heaps. When inserting single
elements into a priority queue, it's (IIRC) the most efficient
representation, requiring O(log n) comparisons and exchanges.






From les_ander at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 23:16:21 2002
From: les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 20:16:21 -0800
Subject: list subscripting (nested lists)
Message-ID: <a2972632.0203302016.26b6a2d4@posting.google.com>

Hi,
is it possible to have nested lists indexing in python?
i.e. index=[3,1,1] and List1=['a','b','c','d']
then List1[ index ] should print out ['d','b','b']

I think this would be a cool feature to add if not already present.
thanks
les


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 23 11:17:03 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:03 -0500
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list@python.org>  <slrna9n6hb.2e1.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <mailman.1016870796.2129.python-list@python.org> <a7i0pf$dco$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <3C9CAA7F.9B2B0D2F@engcorp.com>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> 
> Rest assured the Python Secret Underground is working on all of this. 
[...]
> and Fnord therefore Fnord the PSU is in an excellent Fnord position not just
> to diminish Erisian propaganda, but to completely eliminate it shortly.

Damn!  They've managed to build the autocoder!  We're doomed! :-(


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar  4 23:13:48 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:13:48 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015287849.16661.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8445FC.A1816810@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> [David Eppstein]
> >
> >   "for" expression ":"
> 
> You might want to think this through a bit more since neither arbitrary
> "expression" nor arbitrary "conditional" is supported in the suggestions
> posted so far.

The official Python grammar currently defines a for-loop
thusly:

  for_stmt: 'for' exprlist 'in' testlist ':' suite ['else' ':' suite]

where 'exprlist' is, confusingly, *not* a list of
general expressions, but of expressions not including
comparisons.

So it seems that the following would work:

  for_stmt: 'for' (exprlist 'in' testlist 
      | exprlist lt_op exprlist lt_op exprlist
      | exprlist gt_op exprlist gt_op exprlist) ':' suite ['else' ':'
suite]

  lt_op: '<' | '<='
  gt_op: '>' | '>='

Later phases of the compiler would be responsible for checking
that the exprlists in the new parts actually contain only one
item each, and that the middle one is a variable.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar 11 18:48:32 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:48:32 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <OF132DDF6A.1D8AF5D6-ON88256B79.0081A15A@i2.com>

(Please excuse the top-posting).

I did notice the wink.  I should have acknowledged it.  Sorry.

I just thought it might be useful to show an application domain in which
using indices seems pretty natural.

I like all the points you make below.  Sorry for the confusion.

Jim

================================

> [Tim Legant]
> > So either Jason and I are significantly better than you and your
> > team at expressing ourselves naturally in Python <wink> or it's
> > the need to interface with Java that's forcing you to use integer
> > indices all the time.  I'm betting big money on the latter.
>
> I'm happy to believe you all are excellent programmers versed in Pythonic
> ways.  And I'm always happy to learn something new.  So feel free to help
> me on this one.

Hmmm.  Did you by any chance miss my <wink>?

My intent was to provide a supporting data point to your hypothesis
that the real issue is interfacing with Java.  With Python as it
exists today, I am unaware of any good solutions.

[snip description of nasty problem...]

> Perhaps you could give some ideas on approaches that would be more
> "Pythonic"?

Well, like I was trying to convey in my original message, I think
you're stuck.  Tim Peters actually came up with something a little
better, but I still think it's sad you have to write all kinds of
wrappers just to get a reasonable looping syntax.

FWIW, I completely agree that [x]range is awkward and inelegant (and
necessary) in these sorts of cases.  I'm also in full agreement with
better language support for more complex loops.  I haven't been really
happy with either of the PEPs, but I sure understand the problem
they're trying to address.





From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Mar 23 23:33:56 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 15:33:56 +1100
Subject: MS Sql Server
References: <788n8.60257$bj1.19179906@news02.optonline.net> <mailman.1016932116.26082.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3n0wyeg97.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> writes:

Tim> Chase wrote:
>>  Wondering what the most accepted practice is, for communicating to
>> Sql Server Databases. Is it the ODBC module ? mxODBC ? Is there an
>> ADO module ?

Tim> You can use the mxODBC module but Object Craft have a Python
Tim> interface which is specific to MS SQL Server and Sybase - see
Tim> http://www.object-craft.com.au - but you may want to check with
Tim> its developer, Dave Cole, as to its suitability for production
Tim> systems.

Some people have reported success in using it.

Getting feedback of any kind for free software is as difficult as
pushing butter into a fishes arse with a hot needle.  Sorry, couldn't
help myself.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From alans at killergame.com  Fri Mar 22 12:32:49 2002
From: alans at killergame.com (alan scales)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 09:32:49 -0800
Subject: python/wxPython opengl question
Message-ID: <c0a56015.0203220932.1acdad6b@posting.google.com>

i have a python app (using wxPython).  from it i create a top level
window (frame) using python opengl. this works:  i have my app
running, and alongside it the gl graphics window.

however, when i close the opengl window, it closes my wxPython app
(and the python console) - i.e. everything.

i don't want this behavior.  is there any way to prevent it?  

for the gl window i am just making a standard
glutCreateWindow(title)call.

alan scales


From laytonjb at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar  6 19:34:29 2002
From: laytonjb at bellsouth.net (Jeff Layton)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:34:29 -0500
Subject: Newbie Python+XML Question
References: <mailman.1015372629.2917.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86B595.3F2A0EF5@bellsouth.net>

Brian Quinlan wrote:

> Jeff wrote:
> > % python2.1 testg.py
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "testg.py", line 26, in ?
> >     class XmlHandler(saxutils.DefultHandler):
> > AttributeError: 'xml.sax.saxutils' module has no attribute
> 'DefultHandler'
> >
> >    It looks like the SAX stuff is not getting imported correctly.
> > Does anyone feel like helping a lowly Newbie with this one?
>
> Easy one: you spelled "Default" incorrectly. Change 'DefultHandler' to
> 'DefaultHandler' everywhere in that script.

OK, got that one fixes :) I still get an error message:

[laytonj at home2 GANGLIA]$ python2.1 testg.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "testg.py", line 26, in ?
    class XmlHandler(saxutils.DefaultHandler):
AttributeError: 'xml.sax.saxutils' module has no attribute 'DefaultHandler'


Just for completness, here's the top part of the code:

#

import socket
import getopt
import string
import xml.sax
#import xml.sax.saxutils
from xml.sax import saxutils
import sys


class XmlHandler(saxutils.DefaultHandler):

        def __init__(self, argv, machines=[]):
                saxutils.DefultHandler.__init__(self)
                self.info = {}
                self.hostname = ''
                self.max_hostname_len = 0
                self.metrics = {}
                self.machines = machines


Any thoughts? Ideas?

Thanks!

Jeff


>
>
> Cheers,
> Brian




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 01:08:52 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:08:52 -0700
Subject: Looking for a python shell under linux like PythonWin
References: <a50631f6.0203262102.4bdc160d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7rnnh$cj4$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

newgene wrote:

> Hi, group,
>      The only python shell under linux I can find is IDLE, but it is
> not as good as PythonWin. A important feature "Attribute expansion"(a
> list of attributes for selection when pressing period after a module
> name) is not available. Is there a good python shell existing on linux
> now?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Newgene

You may want to check out:

http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/

It's classical command line stuff (no syntax highlighting) but has many 
features for convenient use, including TAB based expansion for keywords, 
attributes and filenames in the current dir.

cheers,

f


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Fri Mar 15 08:27:55 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:27:55 +0100
Subject: line-by-line file read
References: <mailman.1016195485.1199.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C91F6DB.9040001@bigfoot.de>

Michael Stenner wrote:
> OK, so the wonderful flow of the "warty range" thread inspired me to
> ask the following style question:
> 
> I often find myself reading and processing a file line-by-line.  The
> way I usually end up doing it goes something like this
> [...]
> Anyway... just wondering if there's a preferred way to do this.

Python 2.2 and later:

for line in open("bla"):
     # do something with line

Pre-2.2 Python:

for line in open("bla").xreadlines():
     # do something with line

Gerhard



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Mar 22 16:32:49 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:32:49 GMT
Subject: CGI, etc.
References: <mailman.1016770055.25259.python-list@python.org> <a7dgl7.3vs45c5.1@kserver.org> <XnCm8.734$d7.213146@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrna9m09g.1ic.gerhard@koesesoy.opus-gmbh.net> <a7fiko$l2o7i$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <5qNm8.779$d7.243355@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Bertrand Geston" <bergeston at yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:a7fiko$l2o7i$1 at ID-135695.news.dfncis.de...
> "Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
> news:slrna9m09g.1ic.gerhard at koesesoy.opus-gmbh.net...
> > In article <XnCm8.734$d7.213146 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, dsavitsk
> wrote:
> > > "Sheila King" <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
> > >> http://www.python.org/topics/web/
> > >
> > > btw, the instructions linked to here for doing CGI on windows under
iis
> are
> > > out of date (only covering 9*/NT).  For win2k (server and
professional)
> see
> > > http://www.e-coli.net/mag.shtml (or http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis.html
and
> > > http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis_server.html specifically)
> >
> > I'd suggest to inform webmaster at python.org.
> >
> > Gerhard
>
> I second this suggestion because, as a newbie not involved in the Python
> community (btw really really cool), my first thought after the mail of
> "dsavitsk" was "Ah, Ah this Python site is not really up to date"
>
> Have a nice WE.
>
This has been added to the FAQ.

-d




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Mar 21 19:37:55 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:37:55 -0700
Subject: Popular style document?
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DB2@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Bj?rn Lindberg [mailto:d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se] 
> 
> phil hunt wrote:
> 
> > IMO the requirement to say self everywhere in methods is the worst 
> > feature of python.
> 
> How come Python doesn't have an "automatic" this-variable, 
> like C++ or Java?

Because Python can have nested classes.

-- bjorn



From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 08:48:03 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:48:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <eabGhiAXGej8EwyU@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6l0uj$r5t$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Another
> example of embrace and strangle. 

Good pythonic behaviour, then.


From jgitomer at erols.com  Sun Mar 10 01:20:51 2002
From: jgitomer at erols.com (Jerry Gitomer)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:20:51 -0500
Subject: import gadfly causes 500 Server Error -- anyone know how to fix?
Message-ID: <3C8AFB43.275714BB@erols.com>

Hi,

I have an application I am porting from Python with Tkinter to
Python on the Web.
I built my first set of scripts by copying something that worked
and then modifying
one idea at a time.  Everything was fine until I tried to add a
query into a gadfly database.

I discovered that adding the "import gadfly" statement results
in:


500 Server Error

The server encountered an internal error and could not complete
your request. 


Anyone have any ideas on why and how to fix?


Jerry


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Mar  4 04:51:37 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:37 +0000
Subject: The Text Widget
References: <5Hzg8.72869$vP.290047@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C82E8C4.24531DE7@tds.net>
Message-ID: <a5vcb6$2vbb$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> First, note that if you bind to a key-press (<Key>) event, when the
> event handler is called the Text widget hasn't been changed yet(!)
> Other frameworks provide a "text will change" event and a "text did
> change" event, but AFAIK Tk does not.

Tk does: it's simply that the event "<Key>" is a short-cut for 
"<KeyPress>", called when the key is depressed, so before the insertion 
happened. To do a binding after the text has been inserted, the event is 
"<KeyRelease>".

For Ali's problem, I don't exactly understand what you want to do. When 
reading your mail, it seems to me that a sub-class of Tkinter.Text with a 
redefined "insert" method may do the trick. Or is it more complicated?

HTH
 - eric -


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar  7 19:41:33 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:41:33 GMT
Subject: marcos and .pyc
References: <mailman.1015542734.19085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1NTh8.7464$J3.6384@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

> Is there a feature in the basic python for doing inline marcos (similar to
> the ones found in C and C++)? Also is there a way to specify where .pyc
> files are to be deposited?
>

Python uses the exec statement and eval() functions to generate code instead
of macros.  It's more powerful.

>>> def powerFactory(power):
            powerString = "def power" + str(power) + "(pw):\n"
            for i in range(power - 1):
                powerString += "\tpw *= pw\n"
            powerString += "\treturn pw\n"
            print powerString
            exec powerString in globals()
...
>>> powerFactory(1)
def power1(pw):
    return pw

>>> powerFactory(2)
def power2(pw):
    pw *= pw
    return pw

>>> powerFactory(3)
def power3(pw):
    pw *= pw
    pw *= pw
    return pw

>>> power1(2)
2
>>> power2(2)
4
>>> power3(2)
16




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar 17 19:28:58 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 00:28:58 GMT
Subject: signal handling toy
Message-ID: <a73cca$fa$3@news.idiom.com>

 The following dumb script is for playing with Python signal handling
 under Linux.  It does show some minor descrepancies between the names
 returned by kill -l and the signal.SIG* names.  

 To actually kill this you have to send it an uncatchable signal
 such as kill -9 (kill -SIGKILL).  So make sure to background it
 or to have another terminal (window, virtual console, whatever)
 into which you can enter your kill command.

#!/usr/bin/env python

import signal

linuxsigs = { 1: "SIGHUP",      2: "SIGINT",   3: "SIGQUIT",   4: "SIGILL", 
			  5: "SIGTRAP",     6: "SIGABRT",  7: "SIGBUS",    8: "SIGFPE",   
			  9: "SIGKILL",    10: "SIGUSR1", 11: "SIGSEGV",  12: "SIGUSR2",  
			  13: "SIGPIPE",   14: "SIGALRM", 15: "SIGTERM",  17: "SIGCHLD", 
			  18: "SIGCONT",   19: "SIGSTOP", 20: "SIGTSTP",  21: "SIGTTIN", 
			  22: "SIGTTOU",   23: "SIGURG",  24: "SIGXCPU",  25: "SIGXFSZ", 
			  26: "SIGVTALRM", 27: "SIGPROF", 28: "SIGWINCH", 29: "SIGIO",   
			  30: "SIGPWR",  31: "SIGSYS", 
32: "SIGRTMIN",    33: "SIGRTMIN+1",  34: "SIGRTMIN+2",  35: "SIGRTMIN+3", 
36: "SIGRTMIN+4",  37: "SIGRTMIN+5",  38: "SIGRTMIN+6",  39: "SIGRTMIN+7", 
40: "SIGRTMIN+8",  41: "SIGRTMIN+9",  42: "SIGRTMIN+10", 43: "SIGRTMIN+11", 
44: "SIGRTMIN+12", 45: "SIGRTMIN+13", 46: "SIGRTMIN+14", 47: "SIGRTMIN+15",
48: "SIGRTMAX-15", 49: "SIGRTMAX-14", 50: "SIGRTMAX-13", 51: "SIGRTMAX-12", 
52: "SIGRTMAX-11", 53: "SIGRTMAX-10", 54: "SIGRTMAX-9",  55: "SIGRTMAX-8", 
56: "SIGRTMAX-7",  57: "SIGRTMAX-6",  58: "SIGRTMAX-5",  59: "SIGRTMAX-4",
60: "SIGRTMAX-3",  61: "SIGRTMAX-2",  62: "SIGRTMAX-1",  63: "SIGRTMAX" }

	# Ugly bit of introspection follows:
pysignames = filter(lambda x: x[0:3]=="SIG" and x[3]!='_', dir(signal))
pysigs = {}
for i in pysignames:
	pysigs[signal.__dict__[i]] =  i
del(pysignames)

def prsig(sig,sframe):
	print "%d (%s?: %s) received" % \
		(sig,linuxsigs[sig],pysigs.get(sig, "Uknown"))


if __name__ == '__main__':
	for i in linuxsigs.keys():
		signal.signal(i, prsig)
		print "Signal set for: %s (%d %s?)" % (linuxsigs[i], i, pysigs.get(i))

	while i:
		## Must send "uncatchable" signal to end program?
		## Could add sigalarm + time support?
		signal.pause()



From bernie at 3captus.com  Wed Mar 13 19:08:34 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:08:34 GMT
Subject: dictonary
References: <3C8F27DC.F69B1F54@stud.cs.uit.no> <mailman.1016016636.25825.python-list@python.org> <3C8F3800.3070002@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <3C8FEA78.C6250F62@3captus.com>


Max M wrote:
> 
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> >>db = _mysql.connect()
> >>string = {
> >>      hello:'wow',
> >>      something:'nothing',
> >>      nothing : 'something',
> >>      number : 5,
> >>      name : 'daniel'}
> >>
> > This is one way to do it, I bet there's a better one:
> >
> > dict = {'name': 'Andy', 'age': 39}
> >
> > columns = ",".join(dict.keys())
> > # I hope using only %s works for MySQLdb. It does work like this for pyPgSQL.
> > placeholders = ",".join(['%(' + k + ')s' for k in dict.keys()])
> > sql = "insert into table(" + columns + ") values (" + placeholders + ")"
> 
> A bit more readable perhaps?
> 
> keys = dict.keys()
> vals = dict.vals()
> sql = "insert into table(%s) values (%s)" % (
>      ','.join(keys),
>      ','.join(list(len(keys)*'?'))
> )
> cursor.execute(sql, vals)
> 

Will this method cause problem when inserting numbers (strings are
quoted, but not for numbers)?  I remember it will (not 100% sure, it's
been a while).  Thats what I've done (with MySQLdb):

    import MySQLdb as DB

    _host, _port, _user, _passwd = 'host', 3306, 'me', 'passwd'
    _insertTemplate = 'INSERT INTO %s (%s) VALUES (%s)'

    _tableName = 'MyTable'
    _myData = {
        hello:'wow',
        something:'nothing',
        nothing : 'something',
        number : 5,
        name : 'daniel'}

    _valueTemplate = ('%s, ' * len( _myData))[:-2]
    _sqlTemplate = _insertTemplate % (_tableName,
            reduce( lambda x, y: '%s, %s' % (x,y) , _myData.keys()),
_valueTemplate)

    try:
        _dbconn = DB.connect( host=_host, port=_port, user=_user,
passwd=_passwd)
        _cursor = _dbconn.cursor()
        _cursor.execute( _sqlTemplate, _myData.values())
        _dbconn.commit()
    except DB.OperationalError, _msg:
	# connection failed
        print 'Warning: %s' % _msg
    except (DB.ProgrammingError, DB.IntegrityError), _msg:
        # insert failed
        print 'Warning: insert failed.\n' % _msg
        print 'sql = %s' % _sqlTemplate
        print 'data = %s' % _myData.values()
    else:
        _cursor.close()


Bernie

-- 
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein


From cunsan at lycos.com  Tue Mar 26 05:46:52 2002
From: cunsan at lycos.com (stclaus_imi)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:46:52 -0000
Subject: running python on win2k
Message-ID: <a7pjis+r6te@eGroups.com>

hi, all of you.

i downloaded python for win2k. i wonder how to run it via the command 
line and over the apache/iis web server.

thank you




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Mar  2 11:08:07 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:08:07 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015025883.4457.python-list@python.org> <a5plko$f7n$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5ptsb$99s16$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <eppstein-92FFB2.08080702032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <a5ptsb$99s16$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>,
 "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

> "Carel Fellinger"
> > You specify that the
> > integer to iterate over should be possitive, why not allow for
> > negative values and do the sensible thing, like:
> > 
> >    >>> [i for i in -3]
> >    [-1, -2, -3]
> 
> If you change the sensible thing to mean:
> 
>   [-3, -2, -1]
> 
> I'd like it better.  ;-)

But that wouldn't be as useful for iterating backwards through lists.
Which is what most of this seems to be directed at, rather than anything to 
do with integers per se, so I wonder why we are trying to convert integers 
into lists of indices rather than converting the lists directly.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From mrussell8081 at pacbell.net  Mon Mar 18 15:15:54 2002
From: mrussell8081 at pacbell.net (Mark)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 12:15:54 -0800
Subject: Problems embedding with win2k
Message-ID: <3a7925ca.0203181215.626e8ea3@posting.google.com>

I need to embed a python interpreter in C++ applications in both Win2K
and Linux environments.  I have started to work the embedding examples
and have run into problems on the windows side, here is my setup and
problem:

Environment:

Win2K Pro, VC6 SP4

Problem 1?Very High Level Embedding Example:  Access violation in
msvcrtd in debug mode
I work the first example from the Python docs?extending and embedding
sec 5.1.  When I build this in release mode the application runs fine.
 When I compile and run in Debug mode I get an access violation in
msvcrtd.dll.  When the program is run the following two asserts fail:

Dbgheap.c line: 1044
_CrtIsValidHeadPointer(pUserData)
Dbgheap.c line: 1050
_BLOCK_TYPE_IS_VALID(pHead->nBlockUse)

When I look back through the trace, this error occurs when in
Py_Initialize() when the site module is being imported.  I am using
the debug multithreaded dll runtime for debug and the multithreaded
dll runtime for release.  I am sure I must have a project setting
wrong but I can't figure out exactly what.

Problem 2?Pure Embedding Example?Access violation in python22.dll
When the pure embedding example is built in release mode using the
multithreaded dll runtime, I get and access violation.  When I try to
build and run in debug mode I get the same problem in Py_Initialize()
as described in Problem 1.

If anyone has seen this problem and can suggest a way forward I would
be very grateful.


From store_li at sina.com  Sun Mar  3 22:09:41 2002
From: store_li at sina.com (Ricky)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:09:41 +0800
Subject: How can I use a foreign language char in Swing
Message-ID: <a5uoj2$a4su5$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>

I installed J2SDK 1.4.0 several days ago. I need to get some strings from
database which stored in GB2312 encode method, and display it using Swing. I
got correct result in Windows2000(Use China as default region and GB2312 as
encode method.) While I??run it on Windows(English Edition), all I can see
is ?????.

What should I do? I think ResourceBoundle can't help me. Is there any other
method can help me?






From ffjhenon at club-internet.fr  Tue Mar 12 17:43:54 2002
From: ffjhenon at club-internet.fr (Fabien Henon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:43:54 +0100
Subject: Scrolling line number Tkinter
Message-ID: <3C8E84AA.4070306@club-internet.fr>

I am currently writing a text editor for POV-RAY under Windows using 
Tkinter. It should be working as well with linux and Mac.

To display the line numbers, I use a scrolling column at the left of the 
editor with a text box.

I also linked the main text editor with a scroll.

My problem is that the text editor is well linked to the scroll, but the 
line numbers do not move when I use the arrow cursors.

Thanks for any help

Fabien
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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 12:01:47 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:01:47 -0600
Subject: Extending Python/Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <a77q4o$2poc$1@norfair.nerim.net>
References: <5acdbd0c.0203190838.20c3733e@posting.google.com>
        <a77q4o$2poc$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <15511.28411.274557.350873@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> I have a C++ class that draws maps that I've been assigned to extend
    >> into python.  The class uses X primitive calls (XDrawPoint, etc.) to
    >> do much of the work and I'm at a loss on how to integrate this as an
    >> extension to Python.

Perhaps

    http://python-xlib.sourceforge.net/

would help?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Mar 29 12:59:16 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 09:59:16 -0800
Subject: optional pass? (was Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and  links (Mar 26))
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA35C49.31397789@ndh.net> <slrnaa6sfc.d02.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <477762c2.0203290959.3b163108@posting.google.com>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote in message news:<slrnaa6sfc.d02.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>...
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:09:13 +0100, Stefan Schwarzer <s.schwarzer at ndh.net> wrote:
> >What about
> >
> >class BaseClass: pass
> >
> >class MyClass(BaseClass):
> >   def __init__(self): pass
> >   def method1(self, a, b, c): pass
> >   def method2(self, d, e): pass
> >   def method3(self, f): pass
> >
> >IMHO, that looks almost as well as your version, and makes the absence
> >of additional code seem rather intentional, not accidental.
> 
> True, but i still have to remove the passes when i want to implement 
> the class.

No you don't. They're no-ops. If you are prioritizing on reducing
keystrokes, then you should leave them in there. If you are
prioritizing on clean, readable code, then you'll happily put them in
there (or perhaps better, raise an exception) and happily take them
out later.

Perhaps a change in perspective would help you: the with-pass versions
of functions are not "unimplemented" but "minimally implemented". Your
proposal is to make unimplemented code parsable and runnable, which
makes no sense. It's like saying that, until you're ready to flesh out
the code, you also want to omit the colon and parentheses on the 'def'
line but you want Python to not complain about this.

If this is really driving you crazy, add a couple of macros to your
editor - no point in changing the language over something so trivial.

-Dave


From krists at ifi.uio.no  Wed Mar 20 12:00:21 2002
From: krists at ifi.uio.no (Kristin Skoglund)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:00:21 +0100
Subject: Remove empty lines
Message-ID: <3C98C025.7741BA58@ifi.uio.no>

Hi

I am trying to make a script that reads javafiles and remove comments
and empty lines. The script looks like this......

def removestuff(file):

    infilename=file

    infile=open(infilename, 'r')

    copyfile=infilename +".bak"

    newfile=open(copyfile,'w')

    str = infile.read()

    str=re.sub(r"/\*\*\n.*\n*\*/|/\*\n.*|\*.*|\s*/\s*"," ",str) #This strips away comments

    lines=re.split("\n",str)

    for line in lines:   # Here I try to remove the emty lines

        if line== '':

            continue

        elif empty:

            continue

        else:

            tmp.append(line)

            newfile.write(line)

    infile.close()

    newfile.close()

...and everything works except the removal of empty lines. Does anyone
knoe whats wrong?

Kristin



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 10:58:18 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:58:18 -0500
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <a877h5$ivl$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3CA7321A.DF13361A@engcorp.com>

Jon Cosby wrote:
> 
> This is strange. I've added some lines to see where this is failing.
> You can see below the interpreter is not detecting matches, but they
> are there, and it is showing them. There is something in
> word[0] == firstword[i] that's not right or the interpreter isn't
> understanding. What could possibly be wrong with this?

Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with that, so it must be
something else's understanding that is wrong... <wink>

> for word in words:
>    for i in range(lword):
>       l.append(word[0] + ":" + firstword[i])
>       if word[0] == firstword[i]:
>          cols[i].append(word)
> [...]
> C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
> Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "add"
> 502
> [[], [], []]
> ['A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a',
> 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d',

Are you sure you aren't forgetting case-sensitivity?  I still
don't really understand your code, but I get a sense from the
above that you are expecting "AWORD" to equal "aword", which 
is not the case (no pun intended).

If this is true, try using word[0].upper() == firstword[i].upper().

-Peter


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 14:41:32 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:41:32 +0000
Subject: optional pass? (was Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and  links (Mar 26))
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA35C49.31397789@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <slrnaa6sfc.d02.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:09:13 +0100, Stefan Schwarzer <s.schwarzer at ndh.net> wrote:
>What about
>
>class BaseClass: pass
>
>class MyClass(BaseClass):
>   def __init__(self): pass
>   def method1(self, a, b, c): pass
>   def method2(self, d, e): pass
>   def method3(self, f): pass
>
>IMHO, that looks almost as well as your version, and makes the absence
>of additional code seem rather intentional, not accidental.

True, but i still have to remove the passes when i want to implement 
the class.

>> And then, when you begin to flesh out your code, you would have to
>> get rid of the extraneous passes you didn't want to add (assuming
>> you are like me) in the first place. So the with-pass version
>> requires more effort, and is more verbose, for no good reason.
>
>I value the explicitness of pass over having to write or delete a bit
>less.

With my proposal, you can still use pass if you want to.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From herrn at gmx.net  Tue Mar 19 18:55:16 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:55:16 +0100
Subject: inheriting from curses window-objects
In-Reply-To: <slrna9f62u.2uv.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
References: <mailman.1016563771.5135.python-list@python.org> <slrna9f62u.2uv.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <20020319235516.GA11899@lurkabove.darkstar>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 07:58:23PM +0000, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Marco Herrn wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > i would like to create window-objects that are derived from the standard
> > curses windows (like window or pad). But I don't see any way to achieve
> > this.
> > Is this possible?
> 
> No. But there's help:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52295

That seems not a bad idea.

> > Or would I have to write a "new curses library" to get real objects
> > for window, one can inherit from?
> 
> Fortunately, that's not needed. If you want to write a patch to make
> curses objects subclassable and submit it at Sourceforge, I'm sure it
> will be appreciated. By me, at least :-).

I am thinking about using tinter. There are some elements like dialog
boxes etc. already done as classes. I could inherit from them and create
some additional classes like for ordinary windows and so on.
I think that would do it quite well.
Possibly that is easier than to write everything by myself.

Bye
Marco
-- 
The more we disagree, the more chance there is that at least one of us is
right.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Mar 15 03:53:10 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:53:10 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Tkinter BUG: memory loss for tag bindings in Canvas
In-Reply-To: <a6q9un$2j5$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0203151951350.3701-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Eric Brunel wrote:

> Considering my memory loss problem with tag bindings, I went a little
> deeper into the Tkinter module and found out what happened: whenever a
> binding is created, a new tcl command is created by the Tkinter/_tkinter
> modules. This command in fact just calls the Python function, but is
> required to do the binding at the tk level, which of course knowns nothing
> about Python. This is this command that cause the memory leak: when the
> graphical item is deleted or even when the binding is cancelled, the
> command is not destoyed in the tcl interpreter...

Can you report this on Sourceforge? (ISTR that an SF account may be
required)

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar 21 10:53:47 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:53:47 +0100
Subject: eval of a private attribute
References: <3C998F89.66DB1290@infomaniak.ch> <mailman.1016720675.17480.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7cvln$k94p3$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016720675.17480.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Cedric> I'd like to create a method which will be able to get any
>     Cedric> attribute of the class.
>
> Why use eval?  Why not simply
>
>     p = getattr(self.__class__, var)
>
> ?  The first arg restricts you to fetching class variables.  You could
also
> use 'self' there I suppose.
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
>

Yes, this is right with var = '_%s__%s' % (self.__class__.__name__, var)




From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Sat Mar  9 05:06:08 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (A.Newby)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 10:06:08 GMT
Subject: Q: How can I lock a file in Windows?
Message-ID: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>

I am writing a cgi based, html chat script in Python. Basically, it takes 
input from people's browsers, writes it to a text file, then displays the 
contents of that file back to everyone. Simple.

Problem is I need to be able to lock the text file during the write 
procedure, so that only one person can write to it at a time. 
Unfortunately, not having access to a Unix server atm, I'm using Windows. 
That means I don't have the fcntl module, which means I can't use flock to 
lock the file. 

Is there another way I can lock the file in Windows? 

-- 
cdewin at dingoblue.net.au


From adeptus at onebox.com  Wed Mar 13 04:33:46 2002
From: adeptus at onebox.com (adeptus)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 01:33:46 -0800
Subject: Python / Active Scripting - Value Assignment - HELP
Message-ID: <f5dc3834.0203130133.732023a2@posting.google.com>

OK... 

Within a script block of a HTML file, I can do the following:

something = ax.document.bgColor
ax.document.write("Background color is %s:" %something)

However, unlike all the Javascript and VB examples I see, I can't do
the
following:

ax.document.bgColor = "#000000"

I always get an error about unicode strings being read only.

The easiest workaround I can concieve of involves simply using the
genhtml module, but something about this bothers me. I should be able
to set the values as I could with VB or Javascript.

I also have a feeling this is something that would be remedied by a
better understanding of COM, but there are only so many hours in a
day... ;)

Thanks in advance...


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Thu Mar 28 12:53:42 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:53:42 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uhen0vatp.fsf@online.no>

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> writes:

> Absolutely. All of Mark's Win32 stuff are pretty much essential to
> many Windows users now, I would guess.

That's very true.

> 
> Updating the distro package would be nice too: Add a few handy
> registry tweaks, such as setting PATHEXT properly, and a nice HTML
> Windows help file (chm) and we'd have a nice slick package.

Adding the registry settings so that one can drop data files on .py
and .pyw files and the files dropped will be received as commandline
arguments would also be nice. 

Does anybody know who is responsible for dynwin/calldll these days,
It is very nice for experimenting with the win32 api's.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl  Tue Mar 19 05:53:35 2002
From: oleksik at awa.mat.agh.edu.pl (Pawel Oleksik)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:53:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python 2.1.2, Linux and 'os' library:    bug or (bad) feature?
References: <a754no$r3j$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl> <m3d6y1ft1z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a775bf$jbl$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>

Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> 
> I think the is the doing of X itself: start the same program from the
> shell prompt, and you should observe the same behaviour.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 


No way! And as I've written above: python 2.1.1, 2.1.0, and 2.0.1 work OK.


BTW. just for proof:

oleksik at awa:~> ps -A
  PID TTY          TIME CMD
    1 ?        00:00:03 init
  [...]
 5592 ?        00:00:02 X
  [...]

oleksik at awa:~> python
Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 23 2001, 13:52:32) 
[GCC 2.95.4 20010619 (prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> open("/proc/5592/cmdline").read()
'X\x00:1\x00'


So, IMHO, 'os' library from python 2.1.2 has a BUG.
But I'm still iteresting in your opininion.

best regards
p.o.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 13 13:17:15 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 13:17:15 -0500
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6nnsg$chc$1@panix1.panix.com> <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1016040504.2814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6o53b$62u$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016040504.2814.python-list at python.org>,
Trent Mick  <trentm at ActiveState.com> wrote:
>[Michael Hudson wrote]
>>
>> Time to look at roundup again?  The tracker on sf is starting to piss
>> me off (even more).
>
>If you *are* going to get motivated to look at a different tracker *please*
>consider bugzilla. You will find it a much more appropriate than roundup.

Sure!  Knowing nothing about SF trackers (yesterday was my first
submitted bug, I think), roundup, or bugzilla, I think I'm in a perfect
position to evaluate all of them.  Can you explain what makes bugzilla
superior to roundup?  What, if anything, does roundup have that bugzilla
does not?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 06:46:03 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 12:46:03 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m3zo0qcm84.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> writes:

> I don't see much need for it.  There's no need to turn Python into Java.
> Python, C, and Lisp have all done fine without bools.  

C99 has stdbool.h, though.

> What kinds of programming tasks in Python are bools supposed to make
> easier?

RPC implementations (see the rationale in the PEP), XPath processors.

> >     Some external libraries (like databases and RPC packages) need to
> >     be able to distinguish between Boolean and integral values, and
> >     while it's usually possible to craft a solution, it would be
> >     easier if the language offered a standard Boolean type.
> 
> Again, most of those libraries have C interfaces

Actually, no. Most of those libraries are pure-Python. Those that do
use C interfaces need to expose the bool types of the C interface.

> and (pre-C99) C didn't have bools.

Many C programs (in particular pre-C99) have bools. Not just one, but
hundreds of them. C99 introduces an additional one, which it calls the
"standard" boolean type.

Regards,
Martin


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 13:43:16 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:43:16 -0800
Subject: Another socket/thread question
In-Reply-To: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net>
References: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net>
Message-ID: <20020313104316.781fca2c.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:37:29 -0800
Ken wrote:

> Hey everyone..
> 
> I've got a thread that continously listens to a socket, and reports what
it
> receives. Blocking is turned on, and I would like it to stay that way
since
> the only thing the thread has to do, is listen to the socket.
> 
> My question is when the socket needs to be closed (program shuts down, or
> that user is being disconnected by the server) is it possible to interupt
a
> socket.recv ()?
> 
> If not, whats the easiest way to cut processor time from looping
endlessly
> with blocking turned off?

You might try using select() with a reasonable timeout period.  Then you
won't busy loop, but you'll be able to check every few seconds to see if
some condition is set that would indicate a program exit.

Alternatively, you could have your shutdown function send something to the
socket itself which would indicate to the thread that it should exit.  Or
even some irrelevant data followed by a test on whether the thread should
exit (the data would never be processed so what it is would be unimportant
- it's used simply to cause socket.recv to return).


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From wolfson at uchicago.edu  Mon Mar 11 19:42:12 2002
From: wolfson at uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:42:12 -0600
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com> <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au> <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015882525.3222.python-list@python.org> <a6jd2a$p9d$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.11.18.42.10.801725.2092@uchicago.edu>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:02:34 -0600, Aahz Maruch wrote:

> The main problem with Vyper was that it wasn't finished, and Skaller
> mysteriously vanished. 

The most recent hits for "John Max Skaller" on google is from September
2001.  He's now got a new language of his own: http://felix.sf.net .
It seems pretty similar to what he had planned for Vyper, but looks more
C-ish.  I don't know if he still follows Python; interscript uses 1.5.1.

-- 
BTR    
BEN WOLFSON HAS RUINED ROCK MUSIC FOR A GENERATION
 -- Crgre Jvyyneq


From r.salz at verizon.net  Sun Mar 17 22:42:34 2002
From: r.salz at verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:42:34 GMT
Subject: how to print class names, not references
References: <3C9544B5.47CD0918@pop.ntlworld.com> <PQcl8.9182$%j5.623743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3C95622B.4040803@verizon.net>

If "x" is an instance, then x.__class__.__name__ is the name of the class.
	/r$



From usenet at minus1.de  Sat Mar 16 15:09:20 2002
From: usenet at minus1.de (Konrad Anton)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:09:20 +0100
Subject: Gadfly mirrors?
References: <slrna95io5.1qs.matt@swordfish.havenrock.com>
Message-ID: <slrna979jf.dp.usenet@fohnhab.minus1.de>

matt at swordfish.havenrock.com <matt at swordfish.havenrock.com> schrieb:
>Hi, folks--
>
>Does anyone know of an alternate download site for Gadfly? I have been
>unable to reach www.chordate.com all evening.

It is also in a Debian package called "gadfly" in section
"interpreters", available from ftp.Debian.org mirrors.

HTH
Konrad.

-- 
 Konrad Anton <konrad at minus1.de> ; Web: www.minus1.de ; gpg: 0x22954D8A
 Tel. +49-761-881-2122, Fax +49-721-151318943.  Alice:
It's generally why? 


From curtin at ubsw.com  Tue Mar  5 10:06:13 2002
From: curtin at ubsw.com (craig curtin)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 07:06:13 -0800
Subject: stdout/stderr disabled when debugging in pythonwin (somehow i disabled it...)
Message-ID: <4c7395cb.0203050706.668a8eaa@posting.google.com>

i'm having a problem with "print" and sys.stdout.write() 
in pythonwin (2.1.212).

when i'm executing/debugging in pythonwin, i have no 
sdtout/stderr. any of my print statements, exceptions, etc
don't display in the immediate window....

when i execute python from the cmd line, i see the exceptions/
print statements.

this was working before, somehow i disabled it.... ;-(

anyone seen this before ?

craig


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 11 14:22:41 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:41 GMT
Subject: lambda question
References: <mailman.1015870627.2185.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5u7j8.24390$n4.4764583@newsc.telia.net>

RES: lambda questionAlves, Carlos Alberto wrote:

> Sorry, but your code doesn't work also. See below:
> >>> def exe1(f,list):
>         return map(lambda x,list=list:eval(f),list)
> SyntaxError: local name 'f' in 'exe1' shadows use of 'f' as
> global in nested scope > 'lambda' (<pyshell#11>, line 1)

try this one instead:

    def exe1(f,list):
        return map(lambda x,f=f:eval(f),list)

> By the way, where can I find the Python's LGB scoping rules.
> I would like to read that.

the language reference, perhaps?

http://www.python.org/doc/2.1/ref/execframes.html

    "The _local namespace_ of an execution frame determines
    the default place where names are defined and searched.
    The _global namespace_ determines the place where names
    listed in global statements are defined and searched, and
    where names that are not bound anywhere in the current
    code block are searched."

    "When a global name is not found in the global namespace,
    it is searched in the built-in namespace (which is actually
    the global namespace of the module __builtin__ )."

(local, global, built-in -> LGB)

note that the scoping rules has been modified in Python 2.2:

    http://www.python.org/doc/2.2/ref/nested-scopes.html

under the revised scoping rules, your example should work as
originally written.

</F>




From khirmint at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:00 2002
From: khirmint at hotmail.com (Ken)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:11:00 -0800
Subject: newbie socket/thread question
Message-ID: <3C8928E3.4B55769D@hotmail.com>

Hey everyone..

I'm messing around with Python, trying to learn the language, by
building a simple network chat program that uses threads and sockets.

I'm trying to set it up so that if the server receives a keyboard
interupt from console, it'll shut everything down. Which seems to work
fine for the most part. The problem is that after a user connects and
the server is stopped, the server cannot start up again right away. It
gets the error:

  socket.error: (48, 'Address already in use')

This only happens after a user has connected, though.

Can anyone give me an idea of what I'm doing wrong?

Here's the code that I'm using: (keep in mind that I'm just learning the
language and that program itself is incomplete)

#! /usr/bin/env python

#
# Globals
#

CHATPORT = 43278

userlist = []


#
# Imports
#

from socket import socket, gethostbyname, AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM
from threading import Lock, Thread, Event
from time import sleep
from signal import signal, SIGINT


#
# User
#

class User ( Thread ):
 "Handles incoming and outgoing communications to a user"

 def __init__ ( self, conn, addr, goevent ):
  print "Initializing user.."

  Thread.__init__ ( self )
  self.conn = conn
  self.addr = addr
  self.goevent = goevent;

 def run ( self ):
  while self.goevent.isSet ():
   try:
    data = conn.recv ( 1024 )

    print "Got data..: " + data
   except:
    sleep ( 3 )
    pass

 def terminate ( self ):
  print "Terminating " + self.addr[0]
  self.conn.close ()


#
# MasterListener
#

class SocketListener ( Thread ):

 "Waits for connections to be recieved and hands new connections off \
  to the child handler"

 def __init__ ( self, goevent, port ):
  Thread.__init__ ( self )
  self.goevent = goevent
  self.hostip = gethostbyname ( 'localhost' )
  self.port = port

  # setup the socket
  self.mainsocket = socket ( AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM )
  self.mainsocket.bind ( (self.hostip, self.port) )
  self.mainsocket.listen ( 1 )
  self.mainsocket.setblocking ( 0 )

 def run ( self ):
  print "Daemon started and awaiting connections.."

  while self.goevent.isSet ():
   try:
    conn, addr = self.mainsocket.accept ()

    print "Connected by", addr
    print "Connection received.."

    # start up a user thread to handle the new comer
    newuser = User ( conn, addr, self.goevent )
    newuser.start ()

    userlist.append ( newuser )
   except:
    sleep ( 1 )

  # clean  up
  print "Closing user connections.."
  for user in userlist:
   user.terminate ()
  print "  user connections closed."

  print "Closing main socket.."
  self.mainsocket.close ()
  print "Socket Listener Terminated"


class MasterLoop:
 "Handles the startup of the daemon, starts network functionality, etc"

 def __init__ ( self ):
  self.mastergoevent = Event ()
  self.socketlistener = SocketListener ( self.mastergoevent, CHATPORT )

  signal ( SIGINT, self.sigint_handler )

 def beginExecute ( self ):
  self.mastergoevent.set ()
  self.socketlistener.start ()

  # loop endlessly until told to terminate
  while self.mastergoevent.isSet ():
   sleep ( 1 )

 def endExecute ( self ):
  self.mastergoevent.clear ()

 def sigint_handler ( self, frame, frameobj ):
  print "\nAttempting to shutdown daemon.. please wait.."
  self.endExecute ()


if __name__ == '__main__':
 "Simple chat server"

 maincontrol = MasterLoop ()
 maincontrol.beginExecute ()




From news at charneyday.com  Fri Mar  8 04:42:52 2002
From: news at charneyday.com (Reginald B. Charney)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:42:52 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net><mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org><Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com><R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54> <mailman.1015517608.2847.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wI%h8.2623$ZR2.2434@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

Thanks Justine,

I don't feel that your tone is confrontational. You have expressed a view,
reflected by many others here, that my approach is not appropriate for
Python. While this is a small sample of respondents, it may be
representative, so the style may not be acceptable in the sense that it is
not idiomatic for this language.

That said, let me comment on your example. The use of block structures can
define scope so that your example:

> h = HTML()
> b = BODY()
> l = LIST()
> le = LISTELEMENT()
> p = PARAGRAPH()

could be written, using my approach, as:

h = HTML()
b = BODY()
    l = LIST()
    le = LISTELEMENT()
p = PARAGRAPH()

Believe it or not, I was not trying to start a religious war. I was trying
to use a well-defined approach in one language to another language that I
thought was similar enough in structure to work in the same way. However, as
Brett g Porter (an earlier poster) said, "Down that path lies madness."
Thanks to you all who were good enough to respond to my question and my
apologies if I started out to strongly or offended anyone.

Reg.

"Justin Sheehy" <justin at iago.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015517608.2847.python-list at python.org...
> "Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:
>
> > Brett is exactly right. I am using an approach that is valid and elegant
in
> > C++.
>
> Since elegance is largely a matter of opinion, I'll simply disagree on
> that point.  Destructors and related methods generally ought to be
> used for object cleanup related to their reclamation, not for doing
> additional new processing.  Abusing them in this fashion feels deeply
> inelegant to me, especially since there are so many straightforwward
> ways to solve the problem without resorting to such means.
>
> Elegance aside, your approach is invalid regardless of the
> programming language.
>
> You cannot create a correct HTML-writing program in the style you
> demonstrated, given the structure of HTML.  Your linear style simply
> will not work for anything beyond trivial examples, since HTML is
> fundamentally hierarchical.
>
> As another poster mentioned, your method breaks down very quickly.
> Your style would not work for this fairly simple document because the
> structure is unclear:
>
> -----------------------------
> h = HTML()
> b = BODY()
> l = LIST()
> le = LISTELEMENT()
> p = PARAGRAPH()
> -----------------------------
>
> This will not work because you must specify both the start and end of
> a tag in this sort of language.  It cannot be usefully inferred from
> any linear structure.  This has little to do with Python, and will
> break just as badly in any language.
>
> A few examples of alternate strawman methods that might work:
>
> -----------------------------
> h = HTML()
> b = BODY()
> l = LIST()
> le = LISTELEMENT()
> p = PARAGRAPH()
> h.start()
> b.start()
> l.start()
> le.start()
> le.end()
> l.end()
> p.start()
> p.end()
> b.end()
> h.end()
> -----------------------------
> HTMLstart()
> BODYstart()
> LISTstart()
> LISTELEMENTstart()
> LISTELEMENTend()
> LISTend()
> PARAGRAPHstart()
> PARAGRAPHend()
> BODYend()
> HTMLend()
> -----------------------------
> HTML(BODY(LIST(LISTELEMENT()), PARAGRAPH()))
> -----------------------------
>
> The first two of these are not quite as concise as yours, but unlike
> yours all three are able to express the needed structure to correctly
> generate HTML.
>
> > While Justin is correct - there are a number of packages out there to
> > generate HTML, I was writing an article and trying to use Python for the
> > simple examples in the article. (The article was not about Python, per
se).
> > I had to remove all references to Python when I found that the order of
> > destruction was non-deterministic.
>
> This doesn't follow.  There are plenty of simple ways to do what you
> describe that work without trying to misuse the methods designed to
> aid with garbage collection.
>
> > It is interesting that destruction/garbage collection (something
> > usually done after everything has been completed) has so profound
> > effect on the design of programs and thus, implementation of
> > algorithms.
>
> It wouldn't have nearly as much effect if you took heed of your own
> parenthetical note and realized that all of an object's interesting
> work should be done before the destructor, as opposed to inside the
> destructor.
>
> I apologize if my tone here is a bit confrontational, but that is
> largely due to the fact that you immediately began blaming Python for
> not doing what you want in spite of an incorrect design.
>
> -Justin
>
>
>
>
>
>




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 20 09:30:40 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:30:40 +0000
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
References: <mailman.1016624252.6101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C989D10.5070409@mxm.dk>

Bruce Dykes wrote:

> Now what I expect to be able to do is say:
> 
> log = readlines(today.log)
> 
> and then summon discrete bits of info like so:
> 
> print call_record.record_id(log[1])


It would probably be simpler to it with just a function in this case:

id   = (0,5)
date = (6,11)

def getPart(slice, line):
     return line(slice[0]:slice[1])

print getPart(id, log[1])

or something like that. But just writing it in one big mess is probably 
not out of the question either.

for line in,lines:
     id, date = line[0:5], line[6:11]

Generally there is no need ti write objects before it is needed. Ie. 
when your code violates the DRY (Dont Repeat Yourself) principle.

But then you could do something like (untested).

class Rec:

     def __init__(self, line):
         self.line = line

     def __getattr__(self, attr):
         if attr == 'id':
             return self.line[0:5]
         if attr == 'date':
             return self.line[6:11]

class Log:

     def __init__(self, fileName):
         f = open(fileName,'r')
         self.lines = f.readlines()
         f.close()

     def __getitem__(self, index):
         return Rec(self.lines[index])

     def __len__(self):
         return len(self.lines)

Then you can use it like:

log = Log('logfile.log')
print log[1].id

or like:

for item in log:
     print item.id

regards Max M



From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Wed Mar 27 13:42:28 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:42:28 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <a7qqhr$m5$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jjb5-B81262.13422827032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

>     lock.acquire()
>     try:
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>         code
>     finally:
>         lock.release()
> 
> In any large application, it gets *tiresome* to see this, particularly
> if you add another layer of nested try/except.

In C++ it's common to have a wrapper class that acquires the lock in the 
ctor and releases it in the dtor, then allocating an object of that 
class on the stack local to the function.  Is there a Pythonesque 
version of the same design pattern?  Is there any way to add the locking 
functionality as a facade to a non-locking version of the same function?

I'm on the leading edge of the Python learning curve, but would this 
work?

    class A:
        def fn(self,x):
            pass

    class B(A):
        def fn(self,x):
            lock.acquire()
            try:
                A.fn(self,x)
            finally:
                lock.release()

Or is this considered poor form?


Joel


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar 11 03:28:09 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 17:28:09 +0900
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015825998.27596.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87elirbjae.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Jason" == Jason Orendorff <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:

    Jason> Bengt Richter wrote:
    >> If you start with C, you will get used to a procedural way of
    >> looking at problems, and when you get to C++ you will be
    >> tempted to see it as just C with extra features.

    Jason> Everybody (Stroustrup included) seems to think this is a
    Jason> common pitfall, but I haven't seen anyone fall into it.

Evidently you haven't been exposed to very many C++ textbooks.<wink>


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 30 07:31:42 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:31:42 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <2zRcLUAVjXp8EwVv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <uabbn7n094t76b@news.supernews.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2zRcLUAVjXp8EwVv at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> In article <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list at python.org>, Guido van
> Rossum <guido at python.org> writes
> ......
> This pretty much seems unwanted to me. Done purely for political
> correctness. Whenever new keywords are discussed the Gods are against
> them. Now we have to accept new constants true, false + a new type.
> Silly like all those programmers who have constants like one and zero
or
> ten in code.

Disagree strongly. One of the things that makes a programming
language pleasant is that you can **depend** on certain constructions.
Having a bool type, properly implemented, is IMHO definitely in
line with that - I've always thought that 0 and 1 were a kludge put
into languages by designers that were too lazy to do it right.

> If we get bools can sets be far behind, and what about quaternions and
> abelian groups?

I could see sets as part of the core language, if a couple of issues
with respect to notation could be cleared up. I don't see the other
two, but then, I don't really think that complex numbers should have
been part of the core language either.

It depends on what can be used by most applications. Sets and
enums are generally useful. Complex, quaternians and so forth
are application specific things.

John Roth





From tejarex at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 23:51:39 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:51:39 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <vrXh8.102906$nz4.9380881@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:a6912n$jnt$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> Sorry, I wasn't making clear an unspoken condition I really had in
mind ;-)
> I think (3) does follow (2) using the added explicit condition that
the
> text quotation is to be part of the source text of a program or
module,
> and the quoted text must not need to be changed or restricted to do
it.

With the added conditions, the logic works much better.

...
> The simplest practical example is wanting to use a paste operation
> to insert arbitrary text into a program source without having to
inspect
> the text or modify it, yet be able to use it to define a string
> with the exact raw text value.

As Greg Ewing noted, you still have to scan the text with your method,
so why not scan for triple quotes - which are *extremely* rare in any
text except Python code and *quite* easy to spot (speaking for
myself).  One can always use the interpreter to check also.  Write
s='''\
<paste text here>
'''
and run or paste into interpreter.  If there is a ''' that one missed,
there will almost certainly be a SyntaxError reported, with the line
number.  One could also follow the definition of s with 'print
s[:-100]' to see if entire quotation got included in assignment.

For myself, I can hardly imagine wanting to incorparate gobs of
someone else's text into my code.  If I did, I would want to look at
it and/or isolate it in a separate module where it could be tested as
above.  I would also feel free to modify it with escape codes if
necessary.

Terry J. Reedy





From kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com  Fri Mar  8 02:21:15 2002
From: kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com (William Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 07:21:15 GMT
Subject: NoteTab Lite?
References: <mailman.1015543634.22670.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a69oi3$f3q$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Sorry if I was not clearer, the editor is called NoteTab and is supplied in 
three formats of which the Lite version is Freeware.  It uses what they call 
libraries that allow the user to store code snippets or macros and several 
have been set up for perl etc.  I was wondering if anone has such a library 
for Python or wxPython, I am starting to build one but why reinvent the wheel 
if you dont have to.


In article <mailman.1015543634.22670.python-list at python.org>, "Delaney, 
Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
>> From: kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com
>> 
>> Does anyone use the NotePad series for writing Python code, 
>> if so have they 
>> built a python library that I can have.
>
>Do you mean NoteTab?
>
>Tim Delaney
>

---
William Kennedy
remove the .nospam from my email address


From carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com  Mon Mar 11 15:32:57 2002
From: carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com (Mike Carifio)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:32:57 GMT
Subject: augmented arithmetic operations
Message-ID: <Zv8j8.6678$26.622125@typhoon.maine.rr.com>

According to the language ref section "Emulating numeric types"
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/numeric-types.html),
I can use special name methods to overload operations. When creating
"augmented operations"  like __iadd__ (for "+=") is it considered
"bad form" to create a intermediate value and then assign parts of
self to the intermediate value? Or is this just an implementation detail?

For example, suppose I introduced Point as a kind of number:

class Point:
    def Point(self, x, y):
        self.x = x; self.y = y
    def __add__(self, rhs):
        return Point(self.x + rhs.x, self.y + rhs.y)
    def __iadd__(self, rhs):
        intermediate = self + rhs  # bad form?
        self.x = intermediate.x; self.y = intermediate.y

p11 = Point(1,1)
p22 = Point(2,2)
p33 = p11 + p22  # p11.__add__(p22)
p33 += p11  # p33.__iadd__(p1) makes p33 (4,4)

I'd like to reuse __add__ without having to introduce an intermediate
object...




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 12:05:58 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:05:58 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8gv3au47846mgol398j4oc5t0ufoi274b4@4ax.com>

>And then, when you begin to flesh out your code, you would have to 
>get rid of the extraneous passes you didn't want to add (assuming 
>you are like me) in the first place. So the with-pass version 
>requires more effort, and is more verbose, for no good reason.

The reasons are related to the implementation and not the design
of Python, I believe.

C//



From mcherm at destiny.com  Wed Mar 20 13:41:51 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:41:51 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
Message-ID: <3C98D7EF.5000408@destiny.com>

Jan Dries writes:
>> May I ask you what the scale for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
>> related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
>> Python?
> 
> FWIW, a recent benchmark test in Eweek showed MySQL to be comparable to 
> Oracle 9i with respect to both performance and scalability.
> See http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=708&a=23115,00.asp

And please not that this benchmark used MySQL in *transaction* mode, 
same as Oracle. When used without transactions it's even faster. I must 
say, I was quite surprised... I thought Oracle was further ahead.

-- Michael Chermside





From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar 11 14:31:16 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:31:16 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <OFB5564D00.CEB2EFD5-ON88256B79.0067D8FD@i2.com>

[Tim Legant]
> So either Jason and I are significantly better than you and your
> team at expressing ourselves naturally in Python <wink> or it's
> the need to interface with Java that's forcing you to use integer
> indices all the time.  I'm betting big money on the latter.

I'm happy to believe you all are excellent programmers versed in Pythonic
ways.  And I'm always happy to learn something new.  So feel free to help
me on this one.

Here's your mission.  You are writing applications that deal with advanced
spreadsheets populated from database tables.  Your spreadsheets need to
have all the features of Excel including advanced things like pivot tables
for multi-dimensional OLAP analysis, reports, charts, graphs, etc.  The
data in your spreadsheets can be fairly complex and can include images.

Your market demands that you use Java.  C-Python is not an option.  You
will be using 3rd party components written in Java.  These component were
not created by the folks at PythonLabs.  These components do not follow any
of Python's standard protocols.  You do not have the source code to these
components.  Furthermore, due to the advanced nature of the application and
its data you understand that you are on the hairy edge of acceptability of
performance.  You have noted that creating Python subclasses of Java
superclasses can slow performance -- in your case, it drops below
acceptable levels.  Same with wrapper classes.  Also note that the version
of Jython used, 2.1, does not support iter/__iter__ and does not support
generators.

One of your 3rd party components is a table.  It has a basic access
protocol via methods like this:
    def getRowCount(): pass
    def getColumnCount(): pass
    def getValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass
    def setValueAt(rowIndex,columnIndex): pass

You have lots of example code written in Java that manipulates this
component via row and column indices using for-loops.

Your team will be writing hundreds of code fragments that do things like:
    - take a specified formula and apply it to a specified column for each
row
    - take a specified formula and apply it to a specified row for each
column
    - pivot the table on a specified column, spread the cells in that
column across a specified row
    - from a specified formula, calculate and set the value for every other
row in a given column
    - etc., etc., etc.  (think many hundreds of variations here)

We tend to use for-loops based on indices for this type of code.  We could
drop back to writing while-loops; but that seems more error-prone, like
more work, and less favorable to the programmers around here.

Perhaps you could give some ideas on approaches that would be more
"Pythonic"?

Thanks,

Jim Althoff
Senior Vice President
i2 Technologies, Inc.





From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar 16 00:44:41 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:44:41 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]> <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list@python.org> <ffqk8.25854$N7.5409309@ruti.visi.com> <a6tdvl$19mg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna95mv0.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <a6tdvl$19mg$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:
> Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
>| In article <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list at python.org>, Rich Cook wrote:
> ...
>|> So do I have to read the data byte by byte using read(1) and
>|> examine each character to avoid blocking? Is there any way to
>|> find out how much data is actually waiting for me in the file
>|> object so I can read it in bigger increments, or must I call
>|> select then read(1) for every byte?
>|
>| You don't have to read it 1 byte at a time. Just call
>| f.read(1024) and it will give you however many bytes are
>| available, up to the max of 1024.  You can use a max different
>| than 1024 if you want.
> 
> I think you're making the problem worse here.
> 
>   import popen2
>   t = popen2.Popen3('echo L1; sleep 2; echo L2; sleep 2; echo L3')
>   print 'First read: ', repr(t.fromchild.read(1024))
> 
>   $ python /tmp/x
>   First read:  'L1\nL2\nL3\n'
> 
> C I/O basically sucks for this application.  When you ask for 1024,
> fread is bound to get that amount, just as it is if you ask for a
> line via fgets ("readline".)  If you omit the amount, you're asking
> for all the data, won't return until the socket's other end closes.

Sorry, with all the talk of sockets, I was thinking of the recv() call.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  -- In 1962, you could
                                  at               buy a pair of SHARKSKIN
                               visi.com            SLACKS, with a "Continental
                                                   Belt," for $10.99!!


From rkashyap at sympatico.ca  Thu Mar  7 14:32:39 2002
From: rkashyap at sympatico.ca (Ramkumar Kashyap)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:32:39 -0500
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net> <20020307035851.GA23955@isis.gerrietts.net> <mailman.1015474452.29610.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C87C057.4040902@sympatico.ca>

My original intent for starting the thread was because I truly believe 
in CP4E.  In my freshman year, we were a total of 38 students in the EE 
major. When I graduated four years later, there were 12 of us, no women. 
 I don't believe that programming concepts are more difficult/harder to 
understand and grasp than any engineering curriculum or for that matter 
physics/mathematics.  

Somebody in this thread raised the point that the logic involved in 
programming in not intuitive.  I agree with that. The point I want to 
make is that there are programs like Hooked-on-Phonics, and other 
remedial language programs that are quite effective in raising the 
literacy levels among adults.  

Another point (this is purely from observation and others with children 
may want to corroborrate) is that children tend to learn faster and 
retain longer with repetition.  I don't know if there are any people on 
CLP who are also conversant with the human brain and can shed light on 
the formation of new neural pathways etc.

I should also confess that I have an ulterior motive in this discussion, 
which is to teach my kid to program, (which is still a few years away).

regards,

Ramkumar

Geoff Gerrietts wrote:

>Quoting Geoff Gerrietts (geoff at gerrietts.net):
>
>>What is it about internet discussion forums that makes everyone
>>struggle to find grounds to argue rather than make an effort to
>>understand?
>>
>
>I was probably being unfair here. Read here frustration at feeling
>like the point's been missed for the lint-picking.
>
>>Again, this is begging the question, and after two pointless arguments
>>niggling over the semantics of "smarter", I'm starting to get a little
>>annoyed. I can define smarter as "having a higher IQ", as "best
>>educated", or as "most able to solve a given problem" and all of them
>>work pretty well. Right now I'm talking about ability to ingest raw
>>information and retain it. It's clear I should have been a little more
>>explicit; I guess terms like "smarter" are just begging for people to
>>fight.
>>
>
>And here at least I admit it's my fault, if a little late in the
>issue.
>
>I've tried to recast this discussion away from the specifics of my
>first article and toward the issues, lest they get lost. I just want
>to apologize in advance for letting my frustrations show, lest I give
>insult where none was intended or deserved.
>
>I'd rather the thread be intellectually provacative than
>provocational, if we can manage it; pedagogy is of interest to me.
>
>Thanks,
>--G.
>

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From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 05:05:03 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:05:03 +0000
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Steven D. Arnold wrote:

> Neosynapse has released istring 1.0.1, a module for interpolating
> strings in Python.  String interpolation means you can put variables
> directly in strings, like this:
> 
>>>> from neo.istring import istring as i
>>>> n = 100
>>>> s = i("Value is $n")
>>>> s
> "Value is 100"
> 
> The new release fixes several small bugs.  In addition, we have
> created an istring-announce list, which will receive information
> regarding minor version updates and bug fixes.  To subscribe, go to:
> 
>     http://www.casti.com/mailman/listinfo/istring-announce.
> 
> The istring download page is at:
> 
>     http://www.neosynapse.net/interpolated_string.htm

Very nice, and thanks for the contribution. I've long been a fan of  this 
idea. But could you please clarify if your module is in anyway different to 
the 'old' interpolation module that's been the reference implementation to 
PEP 215? You can find it at http://web.lfw.org/python/ towards the middle of 
the page. Also see pep215 at http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0215.html

BTW, this isn't meant to deride your work in any way. It's just that when I 
see new code doing similar things to existing modules I like a quick 
comparison to decide whether I want to move to the new code or not.

Thanks,

f.



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 13:54:28 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:54:28 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <eppstein-508119.09361007032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8h5ev.ijc.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <eppstein-6ADF17.08541508032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8i274.1ds.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:54:15 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>In article <slrna8h5ev.ijc.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
> philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:
>
>> Thev reasdon i don't like it is that the syntax already has a 
>> meaning: to compare the magnitude of values. Now you are proposing 
>> another, totally different, meaning.
>
>How is that unlike the difference in meaning between "in" in expressions 
>and "in" in for-loops?

I never said I particularly liked that, either.

But it is a well-established part of the python language.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar 20 07:46:12 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 04:46:12 -0800
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xelifcsq3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Andy Gimblett <gimbo at ftech.net> writes:
> 
> > > <ul tal:define="sequence python:container.mydb.selectbyname(name='peter')">
> > >   <li tal:repeat="item sequence">
> > >     <span tal:replace="item/surname">surname</span>
> > >   </li>
> > > </ul>
> 
> > Geez, I find all this pseudo-HTML horrendous.  Why not just embed
> 
> It's not pseudo-HTML, it's W3C compliant HTML (is "<?", btw?).

I don't remember "tal:repeat" as a valid property of any HTML tag 
from the HTML spec.  That's why I call it pseudo-HTML.

> IMHO it's also better looking than <? ?> tags.

The issue isn't the <? ?> which can be replaced by something else if
you want.  It's making code look like HTML properties instead of
making it look like code.


From slick at asia.com  Tue Mar 26 00:38:03 2002
From: slick at asia.com (Slick)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:38:03 -0800
Subject: Memory Error while simulating matrix
Message-ID: <d65d1805.0203252138.571d5708@posting.google.com>

Hello,

When i execute the code(part of an algorithm code) given below, i get
a MemoryError. The best part was that this ran a couple of time before
it began crashing.

------------------------ code starts here ----------------------
row = []                # list 
row = [0] * 1000000     # each row contains million columns 
matrix =[]              # contains a collection of rows  

for i in range(1000):   # creating a matix of 1000 rows each 
  matrix.append(row[:]) # having a million  columns

------------------------ code ends here ----------------------
 
------------------------- error message starts here ------------
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "a.py", line 7, in ?
    matrix.append(row[:])
MemoryError

------------------------- error message ends here --------------


Is there any way to prevent this error ? other than installing the
pyNum package ?

Any help to prevent this from happening is appriciated.

Thanks in advance

Max


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 23:27:32 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 06:27:32 +0200
Subject: Python/Linux
In-Reply-To: <xORp8.63088$Q7.49964592@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886hv$st6$1@panix1.panix.com> <J4Op8.61588$Q7.48627836@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1017628802.8651.python-list@python.org> <xORp8.63088$Q7.49964592@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020401042732.GA8783@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> [2002-04-01 00:07 -0500]:
> So what then do you think?  BlueFish, Quanta

Last time I checked these didn't do WYSIWYMG.

> WebSphere Homepage builder?

Haven't tried it (it wouldn't run on the version of SuSE I had at the time).

As I said, I personally like very much and use Mozilla Composer for WYSIWYMG
and vim for editing HTML code directly. You should really have a look at
Mozilla, it's *far* better than the editor from Netscape, though it could need
some UI improvements (hiding the less used options in advanced tabs or such).

But I haven't seen anything that comes close to Macromedia's Dreamweaver and
runs on Linux. But then, I don't fuzz with page layout very often - my HTML
design mostly consists of editing .css files :-)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 5.6 ?C      Wind: 1.3 m/s



From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 20 09:16:33 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:16:33 +0100
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a7a5ki$ice73$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote in message news:un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3 at 4ax.com...
> I can't believe I'm doing this this best way.
>
> I am debugging a large system written in Python with modules spread
> over 4 directories. I'm using PythonWin under Win2K to set-up the
> environment and run the code.
>
> Setting up the environment typically involves the following commands:
>
> import sys
> sys.path.append("x:\\whereever")
> from wibbleModule import wibble
> wibs = wibble(args)
>
> wibs.methods(args)
>
> <error...>
>
> At this point, I fix the error.
>
> Now, I haven't figured out a way of continueing past this point
> without quiting and starting from scratch because there appears to be
> no way to get Python to reload a module. The reload() function doesn't
> do it.
>
> I've tried stuff like this:
>
> del wibs
> reload(sys.modules['wibbleModule']
>
> but I still seem to have the old version loaded.
>
> I've also tried using PyCrust for this but it suffers from the same
> problems. I assume IDLE does too.
>
> How do others go about interactively debugging large Python OO-based
> systems?

Dave,

maybe this can help you? Comments appreciated, I didn't get much feedback!
This script spawns a thread watching changed modules, automatically
reloads them, and tries its best to update the currently running program.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/907876
and note this bugfix:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/907945

Thomas




From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sat Mar 30 05:57:39 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:57:39 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> writ:
>     Dear reviewers:
>
>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
>
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

Depends on the resolution of #2 and #3 ;-)

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

str(True) must return 'True' or there isn't much point in bothering with
this, IMO.

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).

As a language interoperability guy, I prefer to keep as much precise
correspondence as possible with C++ (and Java), so I vote for
'true'/'false'.

>     Most other details of the proposal are pretty much forced by the
>     backwards compatibility requirement; e.g. True == 1 and
>     True+1 == 2 must hold, else reams of existing code would break.

Guess what other language made that same choice for the same reasons?

>     Minor additional issues:
>
>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>        me.

Changing my position somewhat from earlier, I'll vote in my project's
self-interest: I agree with your inclination to allow bool to be
"promoted" to an int in these conditions.

>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.

I agree again!

      6) Should we eventually remove the inheritance relationship
         between Int and Bool?

I hope so. Bool is-a Int doesn't seem like the right relationship to me,
unless perhaps we make Int is-a Long... naah, not even then.

-Dave





From michael at amtec.com  Thu Mar 28 11:17:21 2002
From: michael at amtec.com (Michael Saunders)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:17:21 -0800
Subject: Extension Modules in C
Message-ID: <3CA34211.5D367EAB@amtec.com>

I am trying to wrap an existing C API as an extension module for Python. Some of
the functions have parameters that are both input and output. Yea, I know it
stinks. Does Python support this notion of a passed parameter being modified?

For instance if I had a c function:

  int GetSomeInfo(char **Title, int *count, int *size);

where it would be called as follows:

  int isOk, count, size;
  isOk = GetSomeInfo(NULL, &count, &size);

where addresses of the storage locations are passed or NULL if you are not
interested in the information.


Can this function be wrapped to have a similar API from python. For instance in
Pytyon:

    isOk = SomeModule.GetSomeInfo(None, count, size)
    if isOk:
         print count, size
    
Thanks,
Michael



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 20:13:30 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:13:30 +0000
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com> <just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1016396564.27134.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9afpq.31j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:08:08 -0500, David Mertz, Ph.D. <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>| danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote:
>|> Even for complex numbers, for which "less than or greater than" is
>|> meaningless?
>
>Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> wrote previously:
>|It doesn't have that meaning for me anymore, it simple means "not equal"
>|to me. It is an abstract symbol. I really don't believe we can discuss
>|this on any other level than "I prefer x because I'm used to it"...
>
>In the end, Just is right.  People get used to different things.
>
>Nonetheless, I think of the natural language semantics of the
>symbols--or maybe better "insinuations"--prefers '<>' to '!='.  The
>(good) one suggests "is greater than or less than (but not equal to)".
>I know that not everything is technically in an order relation, but it
>still "makes sense" at a first approximation.

No it doesn't. It's implying that you can only test for equality two
tings that are both magnetudes, by implying that if a != b then
either a < b or a > b.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Tue Mar  5 03:15:51 2002
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 09:15:51 +0100
Subject: Memory leak when importing?
References: <yv2it8cwcod.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <j43czg9sdh.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <yv21yezl9ag.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:

> Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> writes:
> 
> > Any ideas? Rough guesses?
> 
> I'd invoke gc.getobjects() from time to time, to see whether the list

Sounds good, but in which version does it appear? I cannot find it in
the docs of 2.1 or 2.2, nor a function of a similar name.

  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 12:07:46 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (Rich Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:07:46 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
In-Reply-To: <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>       
 <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>       
 <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]>
 <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <a0510140fb8b7d9f5b9b3@[12.232.110.43]>

At 10:57 AM -0600 3/15/02, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Rich> I don't really need select to block.  I just want it to be
>     Rich> accurate.  If it returns a file object in the list of things which
>     Rich> are available, why should then readline() block on it?
>
>Remember that select() is lower level than readline().  As someone else
>pointed out, select() may return because there is data available, but it
>makes no promises about what that data is.  Calling readline() may then hang
>waiting for other conditions (presence of a newline in the input, for
>example).

So do I have to read the data byte by byte using read(1) and examine 
each character to avoid blocking?  Is there any way to find out how 
much data is actually waiting for me in the file object so I can read 
it in bigger increments, or must I call select then read(1) for every 
byte?
The reason I'm concerned is that I have two file objects (childerr 
and fromchild, actually) and I want to know right away if one has 
data.  So I can't just call read on either one, because I may get 
blocked on one waiting for data from the other.  But I'd like to 
avoid the char-by-char read if possible.
-- 

-Sincerely, Rich Cook 925-784-3077
*******************************************************************
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government 
of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
         Thomas Jefferson
*******************************************************************



From Pierre_Rouleau at ImpathNetworks.com  Tue Mar 12 14:49:45 2002
From: Pierre_Rouleau at ImpathNetworks.com (Pierre_Rouleau at ImpathNetworks.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:49:45 -0500
Subject: Can we use print to print to more than sys.stdout?
Message-ID: <85256B7A.006CED33.00@Notes.ImpathNetworks.com>

Wow!  That's got to be why i like Python so much!
Elegant, powerful and great community support with superfast turn-around time to
get questions answered!!!
Hope it would be like that for some well know Companies...
Thanks !






"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> on 03/12/2002 01:25:09 PM

To:   Pierre Rouleau/impath at impath, "python-list" <python-list at python.org>
cc:

Subject:  Re: Can we use print to print to more than sys.stdout?



Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> #1) Is it possible to change print behavior to make it print to several
> streams?
>
> #2)
> Is it also possible to define an object that would behave like a file
> and that would do the printing itself to wherever required?

# Sure.  This code does both.

class Mux:
    def __init__(self, *objects):
        self.__objects = objects
    def write(self, data):
        for obj in self.__objects:
            obj.write(data)
    def writelines(self, lines):
        for obj in self.__objects:
            obj.writelines(lines)

myfile = open('somefile.txt', 'a')
sys.stdout = Mux(sys.stdout, myfile)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/









From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Mon Mar 18 15:53:43 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:53:43 +0100
Subject: Python/JXTA
References: <b1078faa.0203171654.45461a49@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016413829.28937.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9653C3.5E048BCB@accessforall.nl>


Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> * moxie <moxie_is at yahoo.com> [2002-03-17 16:54 -0800]:
> > It may be a good idea to create Python bindings for
> > JXTA (P2P [peer-2-peer] networking solution from Sun)...
> >
> > http://www.jxta.org/project/www/background.html
> 
> Sure. Go on.
> 
> Or just use Jython (IIRC the reference implementation was in Java).

Which just means:


from net import jxta


Have fun,
Ype


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 22 06:55:07 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:55:07 -0800
Subject: does anyone have any idea?
References: <Zyrm8.17043$Hz2.68698@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <WsCm8.19620$Hz2.74390@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <a7f6eg$kstu1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Trung Hoang
> this is so urgent :(
> 


If you asked a question and we missed it, re-post the question.

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com  Thu Mar 14 20:00:44 2002
From: Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com (Gabe Newcomb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:00:44 -0800
Subject: Good book on Python?
Message-ID: <0C7CA8D8DF75494EB09AB6016990107FF08369@NOXMAIL.noetixad.com>

For what it's worth, I have the older edition of Programming Python and
I was, and am, really disappointed with it. It's random, not good to
learn from, wordy, and too big! O'Reilly's books are usually so terse,
but this one was ugly.

It's like something published by WROX, except you don't have to see an
8x10 picture of the clown that wrote it on the cover.

Gabe

-----Original Message-----
From: Federico Caboni [mailto:msx at crs4.it]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:36 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Good book on Python?


On 14-03-2002 12:26, in article
Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000 at muir, "Antonis C Koutalos"
<ack at ee.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> 
> Hi there,
> I would greatly appreciate information about a good book on python. I
> have been programming C for a few years, but I know next to nothing
about
> python. Therefore, I would appreciate a book that describes the basics
of
> python as well as the more advanced features of the language.
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> -A.
> 

Hi,
There are a lot of books about Python nowadays (and, yes,that's GOOD).
I found "Python Essential Reference" by New Riders a very useful book
(that is, if you want a brief but deep explanation of the language,
Provided that you had previous programming experience with other
Languages..) but, AFAIK, it's still based on Python 1.5.2.

I recently bought "Programming Python" by O'Really, and I have to admit
That I don't know if I like it.
It's a very "strange" book, very diifferent from the more famous
"Programming
Perl".
In my opinion it's more like a big cookbook.
And...it assumes you already know the language.
Maybe it can be useful if you already read Python Essential Reference or
Learning Python.

I hope you find this useful.
Bye,

  ____  ____  ____  _  _     ____  _  _  ____
 / ___)| __ \/ ___)/ /| |   / ___)| \| |/ ___) Federico Caboni
(msx at crs4.it)
| (___ |    /\___ \\__  | * \___ \|    |\___ \ Software & Network
Solutions
 \____)|_|\_\(____/   |_|   (____/|_|\_|(____/ Phone: +39 070 2796 368
  CRS4, Center for Adv. Studies, Research and Development in Sardinia






-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 18:55:29 2002
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:55:29 GMT
Subject: Regular expressions newbie: something for templates
References: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <RnSi8.96406$V15.14384733@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

>>> s="This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
>>> import re
>>> re.sub("\$(.*?)\$","%(\g<1>)s",s)
'This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s'
>>>

--Darrell


Thomas Weholt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm not getting the hang of regular expressions. All I want to do is this.
> 
> Take string #1 :
> 
> "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
> 
> and turn it into
> 
> "This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s"
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> ( And yes, yet another template system in the works ;-) )
> 
> Thomas



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 25 15:19:59 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 15:19:59 -0500
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com>,
Huaiyu Zhu <huaiyu at us.ibm.com> wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2002 00:14:00 +0100, Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>>>>> To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
>>>>> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.
>>> 
>>> Is the source for this available?
>>
>>It's in the CVS.
>
>Is it very new?  I've got a cvs copy a few weeks old, and it's not there.

<sigh>  Try http://ht2html.sf.net
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 21:14:35 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 04:14:35 +0200
Subject: PyOS -- was: Re: ANN: cage 1.0 -- Cellular automata engine in Python
In-Reply-To: <3CA5194E.D5AB00E1@alcyone.com>
References: <3CA5194E.D5AB00E1@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20020401021435.GF333@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> [2002-03-29 17:47 -0800]:
> Here's the latest PyOS installment:
> [...]

For one second I thought: "Hey cool - somebody wrote an operating system in
Python." :-)
 
This would be a nice exercise, IMO: use an existing kernel and C library, like
Linux and glibc, then implement everything starting, including /sbin/init and
the standard network servers (echo, finger, ...) in Python. Add a little Python
shell and voila - the PyOS :-)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.0 ?C      Wind: 0.7 m/s



From malletc3 at cti.ecp.fr  Sun Mar  3 18:20:39 2002
From: malletc3 at cti.ecp.fr (DarkCed)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:20:39 +0100
Subject: [newbie] Problem with os.system
References: <a5u6il$fsc$1@smilodon.ecp.fr> <1015194944.406831104@news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <a5ub4c$hur$1@smilodon.ecp.fr>

I solved the problem by adding a proper python path in the script...
I told you it was a newbie question :-)

Ced




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 24 15:24:23 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:24:23 -0600
Subject: 2.2.1c1 platform experiences
In-Reply-To: <3c9e2442@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
References: <ueliczuqa.fsf@python.net>
        <3c9e2442@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <15518.13815.727178.576008@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> I've attempted to summarise the reports of people using 2.2.1c1 on
    >> various platforms here:

    Mickey> Speaking of foreign or unusual platforms... does anyone have a
    Mickey> reliable build-script for building python on arm-linux ?

No, but if "./configure ; make && make test" doesn't work for you, it would
be helpful if you file a bug report at SF identifying what didn't work.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From paul at boddie.net  Wed Mar 13 07:44:22 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 04:44:22 -0800
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <Tjtj8.48802$3O2.18198075@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <3Nuj8.31472$l93.6215261@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203130444.3d8a1a3b@posting.google.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<3Nuj8.31472$l93.6215261 at newsb.telia.net>...
> Rob Nikander wrote:
> > Are there any projects out there that allow you to embed python in HTML
> > like PHP?  I like the PHP-style of embedding the bits of program in HTML,
> > but I'd like to use python...
> 
> start here:
> 
> http://thor.prohosting.com/~pboddie/Python/web_modules.html

The new recommended starting place is now here:

  http://www.boddie.org.uk/python/web_frameworks.html

Take a look at the following page for more information on templates:

  http://webware.sourceforge.net/Papers/Templates/

Paul


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Mar  9 06:49:47 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 11:49:47 GMT
Subject: PEP 2, Procedure for Adding New Modules
Message-ID: <a6cssr$dn8$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Hi there,

With all the discussion on the further evolution of Python recently I 
decided to dig up my long-dormant proposal for PEP 2, 'Procedure for
Adding New Modules' (to the standard library).

So here it is again, with minor editing. I've also added another open issue
involving the keeping of a list of head maintainers.

I'll also pass it on to Barry so it can be actually included in the index
of proposed PEPs.

Note that currently this PEP stays away from technical issues and focuses on
the organisational aspects of adding a new module and then maintaining it. It
should be supplemented by a PEP detailing the technical procedure, if 
necessary (that includes tests and documentation requirements).

Title: Procedure for Adding New Modules

Introduction

    The Python Standard Library contributes significantly to Python's
    success. The language comes with "batteries included", so it is
    easy for people to become productive with just the standard
    library alone. It is therefore important that this library grows
    with the language, and that such growth is supported and
    encouraged.

    Many contributions to the library are not created by core
    developers but by people from the Python community who are experts
    in their particular field. Furthermore, community members are also
    the users of the standard library, applying it in a great
    diversity of settings. This makes the community well equipped to
    detect and report gaps in the library; things that are missing but
    should be added.

    New functionality is commonly added to the library in the form of
    new modules. This PEP will describe the procedure for the
    _addition_ of new modules. PEP 4 deals with procedures for
    deprecation of modules; the _removal_ of old and unused modules
    from the standard library. Finally there is also the issue of
    _changing_ existing modules to make the picture of library
    evolution complete. PEP 3 and 5 give some guidelines on this. The
    continued maintenance of existing modules is an integral part of
    the decision on whether to add a new module to the standard
    library. Therefore, this PEP also introduces concepts
    (integrators, maintainers) relevant to the maintenance issue.
    

Integrators

    The integrators are a group of people with the following
    responsibilities:

    - They determine if a proposed contribution should become part of
      the standard library.

    - They integrate accepted contributions into the standard library.

    - They produce standard library releases.

   This group of people shall be PythonLabs, led by Guido.


Maintainer(s)

    All contributions to the standard library need one or more
    maintainers. This can be an individual, but frequently is a group
    of people such as for instance the XML-SIG. Groups may subdivide
    maintenance tasks among themselves. One ore more maintainers shall
    be the _head maintainer_ (usually this is also the main
    developer). Head maintainers are convenient people the integrators
    can address if they want to resolve specific issues, such as the
    ones detailed later in this document.


Developers(s)

    Contributions to the standard library have been developed by one
    or more developers. The initial maintainers are the original
    developers unless there are special circumstances (which should be
    detailed in the PEP proposing the contribution).


Acceptance Procedure

    When developers wish to have a contribution accepted into the
    standard library, they will first form a group of maintainers
    (normally initially consisting of themselves).

    Then, this group shall produce a PEP called a library PEP. A
    library PEP is a special form of standards track PEP. The library
    PEP gives an overview of the proposed contribution, along with the
    proposed contribution as the reference implementation. This PEP
    should also contain a motivation on why this contribution should
    be part of the standard library.

    One or more maintainers shall step forward as PEP champion (the
    people listed in the Author field are the champions). The PEP
    champion(s) shall be the initial head maintainer(s).
    
    As described in PEP 1, a standards track PEP should consist of a
    design document and a reference implementation. The library PEP
    differs from a normal standard track PEP in that the reference
    implementation should in this case always already have been
    written before the PEP is to be reviewed for inclusion by the
    integrators and to be commented upon by the community; the
    reference implementation _is_ the proposed contribution.

    This different requirement exists for the following reasons:

    - The integrators can only properly evaluate a contribution to the
      standard library when there is source code and documentation to
      look at; i.e. the reference implementation is always necessary
      to aid people in studying the PEP.

    - Even rejected contributions will be useful outside the standard
      library, so there will a lower risk of waste of effort by the
      developers.
  
    - It will impress the integrators of the seriousness of
      contribution and will help guard them against having to evaluate
      too many frivolous proposals.

    Once the library PEP has been submitted for review, the
    integrators will then evaluate it. The PEP will follow the normal
    PEP work flow as described in PEP 1. If the PEP is accepted, they
    will work through the head maintainers to make the contribution
    ready for integration.

Maintenance Procedure

    After a contribution has been accepted, the job is not over for
    both integrators and maintainers. The integrators will forward any
    bug reports in the standard library to the appropriate head
    maintainers.

    Before the feature freeze preparing for a release of the standard
    library, the integrators will check with the head maintainers for
    all contributions, to see if there are any updates to be included
    in the next release. The integrators will evaluate any such
    updates for issues like backwards compatibility and may require
    PEPs if the changes are deemed to be large.

    The head maintainers should take an active role in keeping up to
    date with the Python development process. If a head maintainer is
    unable to function in this way, he or she should announce the
    intention to step down to the integrators and the rest of the
    maintainers, so that a replacement can step forward. The
    integrators should at all times be capable of reaching the head
    maintainers by email.

    In the case where no head maintainer can be found (possibly
    because there are no maintainers left), the integrators will issue
    a call to the community at large asking for new maintainers to
    step forward. If no one does, the integrators can decide to
    declare the contribution deprecated as described in PEP 4.


Open issues

    There needs to be some procedure so that the integrators always
    can reach the maintainers (or at least the head maintainers). This
    could be accomplished by a mailing list to which all head
    maintainers should be subscribed (this could be python-dev).
    Another possibility, which may be useful in any case, is the
    maintenance of a list similar to that of the list of PEPs which
    lists all the contributions and their head maintainers with
    contact info. This could in fact be part of the list of the PEPs,
    as a new contribution requires a PEP. But since the authors/owners
    of a PEP introducing a new module may eventually be different from
    those who maintain it, this wouldn't resolve all issues yet.

    Should there be a list of what criteria integrators use for
    evaluating contributions? (source code but also things like
    documentation and a test suite, as well as such vague things like
    'dependability of the maintainers').
    
    This relates to all the technical issues; checkin privileges,
    coding style requirements, documentation requirements, test suite
    requirements. These are preferably part of another PEP.

    Should the current standard library be subdivided among
    maintainers? Many parts already have (informal) maintainers; it
    may be good to make this more explicit.

    Perhaps there is a better word for 'contribution'; the word
    'contribution' may not imply enough that the process (of
    development and maintenance) does not stop after the contribution
    is accepted and integrated into the library.

    Relationship to the mythical Catalog?

Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Mon Mar  4 19:58:30 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:58:30 -0300
Subject: Python Embedding, stdin/-out redirection
In-Reply-To: <a5u8fr$ng$1@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com>
References: <a5u8fr$ng$1@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <20020304215830.A22871@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> I'm just trying to embedd python in my 3D Engine
> which works fine, except the problems with my console:
> I'd like to do the
> PyRun_InteractiveLoop(stdin, "<stdin>");
> for my Engines console, because the python interactive
> mode is just perfect. To make it as simple as possible
> I redirected stdin/-out to 2 pipes which I read out
> and print to my 3D window's console. Within my programm
> all I/O stream releated stuff just works fine.
> Mysteriously that doesn't work with python.
> Below you see an example of what I tried:
[...]

I'm trying to understand the usefulness of python being run as an
external process, since it won't be able to change your program's
environment. What you probably want is to run python "inside"
your game, right?

If you have a game console, you probably have your own read/write
routines. It's quite easy to implement your own interactive loop, with
amazing results. Just have a look at Python/pythonrun.c, inside python
source, and check PyRun_StringFlags() routine. To get the output back
in your console, implement an object with a write() method, and replace
sys.stdout and sys.stderr with it (PySys_SetObject() will do the job for
you)

Hint: if you want a behavior similar to the python interactive console,
use Py_single_input when calling PyRun_StringFlags(), and be sure to
implement a read/write attribute named 'softspace' in your output
object.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From olc at ninti.com  Sat Mar 30 19:56:23 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:26:23 +0930 (CST)
Subject: CGI/modpython ???
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203311006090.6583-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203311024550.6606-100000@localhost.localdomain>

Sorry folks, I just found the modpython docs, so I can RTFM. Still, I'd be
interested in any comments about modpython versus Python CGI.

Mick


On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Michael Hall wrote:

> 
> I'm writing Python CGI scripts using the MySQLdb module and getting a
> grasp on things fairly quickly ... Python is a cool language (I'm coming
> to it from PHP). Thanks to Drew and Emile for sorting out my looping
> function, it works fine now.
> 
> Now I'm wondering how modpython is used. If Apache has the modpython
> module installed, how do I use it? What form do scripts take? 
> 
> Do they still look like CGI scripts, or do they look more like a PHP
> script (some sort of embedded scripting)?
> 
> Does a script still use '#!/usr/bin/python', or are file endings (eg
> .py) used to call the Python interpreter?
> 
> Is the script located in public_html or cgi-bin?
> 
> What would I have to do with a CGI script written in Python to use it with
> modpython?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -----------------------------
> Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
> -----------------------------
> 
> 
> 

-- 
-----------------------------
  n  i  n  t  i  .  c  o  m
  data  driven  development 
-----------------------------
Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
-----------------------------




From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 15:54:36 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 12:54:36 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <1cef615e.0203021254.6bf3658@posting.google.com>

Carel Fellinger wrote:
> Jeff Hinrichs :
> 
> > What you are asking everyone to agree with is:
> >         5 = [0,1,2,3,4]
> 
> No he isn't:)  He explicitly says he doesn't think of sequences at all.

Yes, but...
 
The 'for' sentence in Python differs substantially from other languages.
Besides the whitespace show it may be one of the first thing you learn in
Python. From the tutorial:
"Python's for statement iterates over the items of any sequence (a list or
a string), in the order that they appear in the sequence"

And, to be fair, in the Ref. we read:
"The for statement is used to iterate over the elements of a sequence (such
as a string, tuple or list) or other iterable object"

Newbies don't get that far reading docs, heh heh...

The occasional/newbie programmer should not get the idea that Python's for
loop behaves along the lines of Basic or Fortran. I would like that the
concept of the for construction as we know it is as clear as possible.

So, if the PEP progress it should go along with a BIG notice that in
Python positive integers are iterable objects (or, more precisely, that
they follow the iter protocol.)

Thinking in practical terms, I'm more in favour of an indici(seq_or_iter)
builtin function and/or an inditems(seq_or_iter) one as someone proposed.

	for n in indici(set):
	for n, datum in inditems(set):

Also, we should work implementing the iter interface in old code so we
can see more things like:
	
	for row in resultSet:
		print row.attribute

so there is no need of xrange(seq.getCount()) / seq.get(n) pairs.

indici(x) will replace the odd xrange(len(x)) idiom and address the problem
of open intervals where the length of the set is not known in advance.

But I fail to see how to apply this solution naturally on sets that have
several different main 'walking' directions like arrays or like the sample
in the PEP. If the 'table' object has symmetry between two (or more) axes,
then
	indici(table)
is ambiguous.


Regards,
-Hernan


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 10:17:45 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 09:17:45 -0600
Subject: Java and Python employment prospects (was: Java and Python)
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <4CFAF0C0B33691F4.3834C641951F9CBE.EF865BE046133EE8@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3C981961.9F5E5383 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> I'm interested in knowing which skills will(are) being looked for.
			.
			.
			.
>3. The best support for either Java or Python is probably in 
>their respective newsgroups.  Python's is widely known as being
>one of the most polite and helpful.  The language has been
			.
		[a great deal of useful
		and correct information]
			.
			.
>Here's my best answer to you:  I happen to hire programmers
>to work on my team in a wireless telecom company.  Although
>we happen to have chosen to use Python in addition to C and
>a few minor languages like Javascript and Assembly, where 
>necessary, the language we use is hardly the most important
>thing.  
>
>Communication skills are, first and foremost, the thing I 
>look for in hiring.  This includes the softer social skills
>like how to work in a team and put aside one's programming
>ego.  Next are adaptability, as in how easily someone can 
>pick up new skills and apply them effectively.  Design 
>skills are useful.  Debugging skills are very valuable, 
>though rather unfortunately rare.  Probably some others 
>that don't come to mind in today's economy (we're not
>hiring now :-).
>
>Way, way down the list of things I look for in a resume
>is the programming languages a candidate has.  Not entirely
			.
			.
			.
>Not all companies hire in this way, of course, but all
>the best ones do. :-)
>
>-Peter
>
>P.S.: If you are considering Python as a massive growth
>area where ex-Java programmers can go to get lucrative
>jobs, you're bound to be disappointed.  As in programming,
>there is no silver bullet.

I feel a need to reinforce some of what Peter has written.

Understand clearly that many, many organizations do NOT hire
based on anything like the criteria Peter describes.  They
instead process candidates based narrowly on "certifications",
alleged language experience, and so on.  Of course these are
not the best employers; they are, in my experience, the over-
whelming majority.

Yes, comp.lang.python has a deserved reputation for its cor-
diality and effectiveness.

Incidentally, I have personal knowledge of a prestigious
educational institution that's working on a training unit
whose purpose I feel I can fairly paraphrase as, "Python for
Java programmers who seek a 'silver bullet' for their founder-
ing careers".  This stuff happens.  Peter's fighting powerful
social forces by writing and managing his company so wisely.

I think a decision to seek career counseling in comp.lang.java
[sic] and comp.lang.python is ... well, perhaps it's best to
express it this way:  my reading of c.l.p is that few of the
participants claim expertise in the specialty of "drive-by"
career counseling.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From test at biggulp.readfreenews.net  Fri Mar  1 23:03:47 2002
From: test at biggulp.readfreenews.net (test)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:03:47 +1000
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <3c804f7b$0$4215$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Backtalk is another python-based framework.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/backtalk/




From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar 30 17:40:05 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 23:40:05 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a85es5$a95$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Terry Reedy <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:

...
> Proposed amendment: call the new type 'truth' instead of 'bool' and
> change the title of the PEP to "Formalizing a Python truth type".
...lots of arguments snipped

A *very* good idea.




-- 
groetjes, carel


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Mar 13 22:33:30 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:33:30 GMT
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk> <20020313092857.4765dd0d.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net> <mailman.1016045632.17813.python-list@python.org> <3C8FF468.408183B2@engcorp.com> <mailman.1016068655.19163.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eSUj8.13848$mp.63417@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Gerhard H?ring:

> You're of course right. Has anybody tried their .NET SDK,
> yet. Does it contain a usable commandline version of VC++7?

   The .NET SDK contains a usable compiler but as mentioned it does not
optimize. You may need to download extra include and library files such as
those provided by the Platform SDK which is also free. I already had these
from an earlier version of Visual C++. You may also need a version of STL
such as the free STLPort.

   The code produced is not fast or small but works well enough for
applications that are not performance sensitive.

   The mingw version of gcc and Borland's free C++ compiler are packaged
better than the free version of Microsoft's compiler and they include
optimization.

   Neil





From ctp at ctpdesign.com  Sat Mar 23 02:27:04 2002
From: ctp at ctpdesign.com (Christopher Palmer)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:27:04 -0800
Subject: simple question
In-Reply-To: <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net>
References: <mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list@python.org>
 <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <v04210104b8c1dd88d875@[192.168.1.150]>

Let's say I have a variable called a

and a contains an integer, say 4522

and I want 4, 5, 2, and 2 to be items in a list instead of an integer...

I know it must be dirt simple, but nothing I have tried so far has worked.

Thanks in advance,
CTP



From oinkfreddie at oinkmadcowdisease.oinkorg  Sun Mar 31 22:40:35 2002
From: oinkfreddie at oinkmadcowdisease.oinkorg (Freddie)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:40:35 GMT
Subject: Python socket problems
Message-ID: <Xns91E3860B0E47Cfreddiethescaryeleph@61.9.128.12>

Hi,

I'm having quite a bit of trouble with some code I've written in Python 
recently. The program itself is an offer bot (think iroffer), and it uses 
python-irclib to handle the IRC stuff. There's a thread that handles DCC SEND 
transfers using select and non-blocking sockets.

The problem is, if several sends are active (say, using ports 31000 through 
31002), starting a new send will quite often cause earlier sends to time out. 
I have no idea what this problem is, it doesn't _seem_ to be a call blocking 
(for 90 seconds?). I've tried starting a single thread per send, but that 
seemed to create more problems than it solved (file read calls returning 
nothing, when they weren't EOF?).

Anyone have any idea? I can send the relevant code parts via e-mail, if you 
need them.

Thanks,
  Freddie

--------------------------------------------------------------
Remove the oinks from my e-mail address if you really want to


From ack at ee.ed.ac.uk  Thu Mar 14 06:26:01 2002
From: ack at ee.ed.ac.uk (Antonis C Koutalos)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:26:01 +0000
Subject: Good book on Python?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>

Hi there,
 I would greatly appreciate information about a good book on python. I
have been programming C for a few years, but I know next to nothing about
python. Therefore, I would appreciate a book that describes the basics of
python as well as the more advanced features of the language.

Thank you in advance!

-A.



From rjk at grauel.com  Fri Mar 22 13:28:48 2002
From: rjk at grauel.com (Richard J. Kuhns)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 18:28:48 GMT
Subject: A question about generators
References: <mailman.1016677895.17368.python-list@python.org> <x7663pgbs1.fsf@moran.grauel.com> <3C9A87F5.8EA76936@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <85d6xwe9t6.fsf@moriarity.grauel.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> Richard J Kuhns wrote:
> > 
> > That's EXACTLY what I did :).  The main reason I had problems to start with
> > is that almost everything I've done with python feels more-or-less
> > "elegant", and this doesn't.
> 
> Well, generators weren't designed for the sort of problems
> that require restartability.
> 
> Is there some reason you absolutely can't just create
> a new instance of the generator each time you need
> to restart? That would be the most elegant way,
> if you can manage it.
> 

No, there's no reason I couldn't create a new instance each time.  I'd
started out trying to find a simple way to implement something that's only
rarely going to be used in this particular app, and it turned out to be
hairier than I'd expected.  After I get this app running I'll probably
revisit it, but since it *is* working right now...  You know, `good enough'
is the enemy of `the best'.

-- 
Richard Kuhns			rjk at grauel.com
PO Box 6249			Tel: (765)477-6000 \
100 Sawmill Road				    x319
Lafayette, IN  47903		     (800)489-4891 /

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Mar 20 14:08:09 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:09 GMT
Subject: module for assessing gray levels of gray level bitmap?
References: <3C987942.9060309@web.de>
Message-ID: <t65m8.26434$n4.5178275@newsc.telia.net>

Oliver Pust wrote:

> is there a module for assessing the gray levels of gray level bitmap? I
> am thinking of a module that allows to open a bmp-file and stores the
> gray levels of each pixel in form of a matrix e.g. gray_level[x,y].

http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm

from PIL import Image

im = Image.open("myimage.bmp")
print im.getpixel((x, y))

</F>





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 05:28:59 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:28:59 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <slrnaac5uf.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3wuvtm3o4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:

> That *is* a valid reason. However, it must be decided whether 
> Python's primary goal is to be easy to learn or easy to use.

I think this has been decided; many educators are interested in using
Python in school (at all levels of education).

> This proposal makes it easier to learn in some respects, but adds 
> difficulty as well, as the user must learn a new data type, albeit 
> a rather simple one.

This should not be a problem. The notion of boolean values must be
understood, anyway, and wordings like "[],{},None, ..., 'count as
true'" are more easy to understand (IMO) if there really is the thing
they count as.

Regards,
Martin


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Mar 15 13:36:55 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:36:55 GMT
Subject: Threading/TkInter problems with Buttons.
References: <4378fa6f.0203141407.9b20050@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbrk8.32271$l93.6333567@newsb.telia.net>

Marc wrote:
> I was trying to start a thread from a button to find that it would not
> work. The problem was that every time I started the application, the
> thread would automatically kick off:

can you spot the the difference between those two
lines:

> self.Go["command"] = self.thread1.start()
> self.Go["command"] = self.go_thread

(in the first case, you're calling the function, and assign
the return value to the command option...  in the second
case, you're doing the right thing)

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From lac at strakt.com  Wed Mar  6 08:32:31 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:32:31 +0100
Subject: Brewster's Factor - was :Trouble running programs 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:38:29 MST."
             <3C8475F4.46E94132@3captus.com> 
References: <200203041148.g24BmttB007592@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>  <3C8475F4.46E94132@3captus.com> 
Message-ID: <200203061332.g26DWVtB014395@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

Ok, Brewster's Angle it is!  Thank you.

Laura Creighton



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 22:31:31 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:31:31 -0500
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com> <slrnaa1i9v.jhl.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7qovs$njspa$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3CA13D13.3C134F88@engcorp.com>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> As to finding it at http://ht2html.sf.net, I didn't find it either first
> time through as I didn't look closely enough at the ht2html at SourceForge
> to distinguish it from an e-mail address.

Now that I think of it, this was definitely something that confused
me for a moment until my desperation forced me to move the mouse
over it.  

And that was the third time I visited the site.

The first two times I believe I simply assumed it was email and
ignored it.

Suggestion to site author: remove "@" and reword to suggest more
strongly that this is the link to the real SourceForge site and
you'll have more "customers".

-Peter


From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sun Mar 10 17:59:03 2002
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:59:03 GMT
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
Message-ID: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com>

Hi all,

Just recently I prototyped a relatively complex algorithm in Python
before converting it to C. During this conversion I noticed that
the modulo operator returns different results in C and Python if
the numerator is negative. For positive values they produce the same 
result.

----------------------------------------------------------------
erikd at coltrane > python
Python 2.1.2 (#1, Jan 18 2002, 18:05:45) 
[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 123 % 12
3
>>> -123 % 12
9
>>> 
erikd at coltrane > cat mod_test.c 
#include <stdio.h>

int main (void)
{       int a = 123 ;

        printf (" % d %% 12 == %d\n",  a,  a % 12) ;
        printf (" % d %% 12 == %d\n", -a, -a % 12) ;
        return 0 ;
} 
erikd at coltrane > gcc -Wall mod_test.c -o mod_test
erikd at coltrane > ./mod_test 
  123 % 12 == 3
 -123 % 12 == -3
----------------------------------------------------------------

Anybody have any idea why this is?

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
The government everybody loves to abuse sues the company everybody loves 
to hate. Throw in a bunch of faceless lawyers cross-examining techies 
[with] all the charisma of a video driver and you've got a spectacle of 
thoroughly miniscule proportions.


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 19:15:18 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:15:18 +0100
Subject: data persistent from run
In-Reply-To: <c4e6b17d.0203131522.695853b8@posting.google.com>
References: <c4e6b17d.0203131522.695853b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020314001517.GC1347@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 15:22, Bob Roberts ?crivit:
> What is the best way to keep data like window size and position for
> the next time I run the program?  I know in win2k, stuff like that is
> usually stored in the registry.  Are there any python commands to
> store such information in a platform-independent manner?

I'd just store the settings in the user's home directory. This leads us
to the next problem: where's the home directory, which has come up
several times on this mailing list, with no 100 % satisfactory solution
for the various Windows flavours, IIRC.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 8.6 ?C      Wind: 2.3 m/s



From les_ander at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 18:22:21 2002
From: les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 15:22:21 -0800
Subject: string to dictionary
Message-ID: <a2972632.0203011522.16f1b8e0@posting.google.com>

Hi, 
i have a list of strings like this:

aList=[ 'a_1 b_1', 'a_2 b_2', 'a_3 b_3',...]

i want to convert this to a dictionary with a_i -> b_i without
using loops (it is trivial to do it with loops)
i tried this 

dict={}
map(lambda x,d=dict: c=string.split(x), d[c[0]]=c[1], aList)

but it complains that "keyword can't be an expression"
can someone please help me get this right?
thanks
les


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Thu Mar  7 16:56:00 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:56:00 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <3c87d103.26130283@news.laplaza.org> <eppstein-B61874.13474907032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8fofl.5e2.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:47:49 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
> But there are a few warts in the design, where instead of just using Python
> I have to stop and explain some unnatural unintuitive syntax.

    You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it
means.

    You killed my language, prepare to die!

</Inigo Montoya>

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From daniel at dittmar.net  Wed Mar 13 14:39:25 2002
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:39:25 +0100
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FAAED.8030905@dittmar.net>

 > 'python script.py'
 >
 > completely fails (syntax error).  This is the only way I

If you're getting a SyntaxError like below

[0] h:\tmp >python script.py
   File "<string>", line 2
     impor something
                   ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

then your Python is working just fine, there is only a mistake in your 
script.

Daniel



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  1 06:31:55 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:31:55 -0500
Subject: Want to monitor process..
References: <87550ef1.0202272315.15779bbd@posting.google.com> <f2lf8.385$Az6.1854@news.hananet.net> <97ae44ee.0202280901.3153bdfc@posting.google.com> <3C7EC9C6.D11FB17@engcorp.com> <97ae44ee.0203010102.14ebf2bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F66AB.D51BEA03@engcorp.com>

Stephen wrote:
> 
> > Yikes!  "Crash"?  Do you really mean they crash the Python interpreter,
> > or do you mean they exit with an exception?
> 
> Sorry, I guess I mean "exit with an exception" though to be honest, I
> still don't know because I haven't been able to run the programs
> interactively during a 'crash'.  

I'm not sure what the interactive thing would add, since the
interpreter will already print exception tracebacks to the console
whenever your program exits exceptionally.  If you aren't seeing
a traceback, maybe you aren't really exiting with an exception.

> > If the latter, just wrap the highest level code with a try/finally
> > or try/except and put code in to ensure the child processes are
> > properly terminated.  Simple, clean, safe.
> 
> Will do.  I didn't want to put try/except/finally at the highest level
> of code yet since we're actually in Beta and I want to know when my
> server encounters a problem.  

No problem, just put a "raise" statement as the final statement in
the exception handling block (when using try/except only) and you'll
still propagate the exception up and right out of the interpreter
so it prints a traceback to the console.  In the try/finally case,
however, you'll still get the traceback if an exception *did* 
occur, because the interception is only a temporary one.  After the
finally code executes, exception processing continues on.

> Problem has been that not running it in
> interactive mode, I've missed the reasons for the failures.  That's
> why I also asked about logging recently.

Logging is good, but shouldn't be absolutely essential to catch
a serious exception.  The interactive mode should be entirely
unnecessary and, as you suggest, gets in the way of normal
execution.

I think you might focus on the lack of a traceback.  You should
always see one if you aren't explicitly swallowing the exception.
(Note, a few standard modules such as the SocketServer and such
will internally swallow exceptions in the server threads by default.)

-Peter


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 20 04:06:04 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:06:04 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <a79jec$jf617$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:slrna9fqje.k50.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no...
> In article <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82>, Chris Liechti wrote:
> >mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) wrote in
> >news:slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no:
> >
> [snip]
> >
> >as i understand py2exe it does exactly that. it adds a new target
> >"py2exe" so that disutils have a new target name.
> >
> >i.e "python setup.py py2exe" generates the exe+dlls in the dist dir
>
> Yes, I realise that, but...
>
>   1. It only works on Windows; working on all platforms (as when
>      compiling extensions with distutils) would be desirable;

Gordon's installer also works on linux (and solaris?).
Myself I'm only working on windows, so there is no need for me
to extend py2exe to work on linux systems. If anyone is willing
to provide patches for linux (or other systems), and is willing
to maintain them, I will happily add him as developer ;-).

Thomas




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar 25 06:02:58 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 03:02:58 -0800
Subject: Root access with python
References: <d906b2c1.0203250237.60f6ad12@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x663krjtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mtaylor at lowebroadway.com (Moray Taylor) writes:
> I want to know how to run a 'root' command with python, i.e. mounting
> an NFS drive.
> 
> On the terminal, you would do a 'su', type your password, then enter
> the command you wanted to run. How is this achieved within Python?
> 
> My purpose is to make a small GUI app with PyQT to make mounting NFS 
> volumes easier, I can handle the GUI bit, but I don't understand how
> to 'su'.
> 
> Thanks  for any help

Don't try to do that unless you REALLY know what you're doing with
security implementation.

Instead, run "su" the usual way and type your password to get a root
shell, then launch your GUI app from the root shell.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 24 21:09:16 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 02:09:16 GMT
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <mailman.1017014137.17415.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7m0sc$iq9$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:53:41 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Martin v. Loewis]
>> Correction: open is file. Just try it
>>
>> >>> open is file
>> 1
>>
>> So open is the type of file objects.
>
>Na, file is the type of file objects:
>
>>>> type(sys.stdout)
><type 'file'>
>>>> type(sys.stdout).__name__
>'file'
>
>"open" was made identical to "file" just so open(filename) would continue to
>work as before.  Once you get used to it, it's more natural to say
>file(filename) in 2.2 (for much the same reason it's long been more natural
>to say int("42") than string.atoi("42")).
>
 >>> id(open),id(file),open==file
 (503978992, 503978992, 1)

Really identical, it seems.
BTW, I was playing around classifying things in __builtins__ according
to type(thing).__name__:

 >>> sys.version
 '2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]'

 >>> d={}
 >>> for k,v in __builtins__.__dict__.items():
 ...     vn = type(v).__name__
 ...     if d.has_key(vn): d[vn].append(str(k))
 ...     else: d[vn] = [str(k)]
 ...
 >>> for k in d.keys(): print k
 ...
 instance
 builtin_function_or_method
 str
 int
 ellipsis
 NotImplementedType
 type
 class
 NoneType

 >>> def pl(alist,cols=None,width=78):
 ...     fmt= '%%%ss' % (cols and width//cols-1 or '',)
 ...     for i in xrange(len(alist)):
 ...         if not cols:
 ...             print alist[i]
 ...         else:
 ...             if not i%cols:  print
 ...             print fmt % alist[i],
 ...
 >>>
 >>> pl(d['instance'],3)  

                      help                   credits                 copyright
                   license
 >>> pl(d['str'],3)

                      quit                   __doc__                      exit
                  __name__
 >>> pl(d['int'],3)

                 __debug__
 >>> pl(d['ellipsis'],3)

                  Ellipsis
 >>> pl(d['NotImplementedType'],3)

            NotImplemented
 >>> pl(d['NoneType'],3)

                      None
 >>> pl(d['class'],4)

       RuntimeError        MemoryError      StopIteration       UnicodeError
        LookupError     ReferenceError          NameError        ImportError
         SystemExit          Exception      StandardError        SystemError
            IOError         IndexError     RuntimeWarning      SyntaxWarning
            Warning    ArithmeticError           KeyError   EnvironmentError
 DeprecationWarning FloatingPointError    OverflowWarning         ValueError
           EOFError           TabError        SyntaxError            OSError
   IndentationError     AssertionError          TypeError  KeyboardInterrupt
        UserWarning  ZeroDivisionError  UnboundLocalError NotImplementedError
     AttributeError      OverflowError       WindowsError
 >>>

... all the exceptions appear to be type 'class'. Are they slated to become object-based?

 >>> pl(d['builtin_function_or_method'],4)

               vars                pow            globals             divmod
              apply         isinstance                zip                hex
                chr         __import__              input                oct
               repr            hasattr            delattr            setattr
          raw_input               iter            compile             reload
              round                dir                cmp               hash
             xrange             reduce             coerce             intern
         issubclass             unichr                 id             locals
              slice                min           execfile            getattr
                abs                map             buffer                max
                len           callable               eval                ord
             filter              range

 >>> pl(d['type'],4)

              float            unicode               open              super
               long            complex               dict               type
              tuple               list                str           property
                int               file             object                  _
        classmethod       staticmethod
 >>>

... sort of interesting, FWIW. Has someone done a proper showinfo(x) utility to
do this kind of thing for various objects? Hard to believe not.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 29 14:19:15 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 19:19:15 GMT
Subject: Python 2.2 chr representation errors with embedded C
References: <mailman.1017411238.31523.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a82enj$kvg$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:12:08 -0500, "Mark Szigety" <mszigety at cisco.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I have recently made the upgrade to Python 2.2 from 1.5.2.  In the
>Python application which I develop, we have several embedded C
>functions, one of which is a simple function to convert a hex string to
>octal--it simply chars each byte and returns the new buffer.  However, I
What do you mean "hex string" and "to octal" ? is this a string->string
conversion, changing a hex string representation of an integer to
an octal string representation of the same integer, or what? Please define your terms.

Since it's so simple, why not post the actual code you're having trouble with??

>have noticed a 0.01% error rate in Python 2.2 which I did not see in
>Python 1.5.2 (it was 100% accurate).  That is, 1 out of 10,000 hex
>strings will be converted incorrectly in the C function, usually one
>byte is returned as \x00 instead of what is should be.  I also have
>noticed that in Python 2.2, chr(0xff) returns \xff instead of \377 in
>Python 1.5.2.  Could this be the source of the communication breakdown?
>
>I should mention that writing a similar conversion function totally in
>Python is 100% accurate in Python 2.2 as well as Python 1.5.2, although
>it is an order of magnitude slower.
>
>Any information about the apparent source of this issue would be
>appreciated!

I dislike playing 20-questions games when being asked to help.
I guess I should have eaten a better breakfast ;-/



Regards,
Bengt Richter


From neal at metaslash.com  Sun Mar 31 19:03:30 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:03:30 -0500
Subject: Accessing  CVS on SourceForge?
References: <d7fcf8b4.0203311543.1a7cf54e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7A3D2.F37314D6@metaslash.com>

Samuel Schulenburg wrote:
> 
> How do you access a particular python realease on SourceForge? I can
> obtain the latest realease by following the instruction provided at
> SourceForge, but I would like to obtain Python2.2 or 1.52.

cvs upd -r r221      # when it's available in about a week
cvs upd -r r221c2    # most recent version 2.2.1 RC2
cvs upd -r release22 # 2.2
cvs upd -r r152      # 1.5.2

to find out what the tags are do:
	cvs log Objects/intobject.c # or any other file

Neal


From jim.vickroy at noaa.gov  Wed Mar  6 16:25:47 2002
From: jim.vickroy at noaa.gov (j vickroy)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:25:47 -0700
Subject: Dictionaries in Lists
References: <ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a661gr$d2s$1@mwrns.noaa.gov>

Nothing wrong with the idea.

Did you specify:

> Info = {'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah"}

or what you posted (which had some syntax errors)?

"Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> I was attempting to make a list of dictionaries, which to me feels like
the
> C equivlant of an array of structs, kind of. anyway, after making a
> dictionary and putting some values into it, and trying to append it to a
> list, python is not liking this. Am I approaching the idea the wrong way?
i
> would like to keep the data organized as dictionaries.. the code looked
> something like
>
> Info{'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah}
> Listing=[]
> Listing.append(Info)
>
>
>
>




From jar at mminternet.com  Wed Mar 13 13:08:08 2002
From: jar at mminternet.com (James A Roush)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:08:08 -0800
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <a6mpda$79e$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.16f93563d41b508f989696@news.mminternet.com>

In article <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b at posting.google.com>, paul at boddie.net 
says...
> Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a6mpda$79e$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>...
> > James A Roush wrote:
> > 
> > > Does anyone have any code that, given that absolute URL of a web page, can
> > > convert all the relative URLs on that page to their absolute equivalent?
> > 
> > Assuming absolute is a string and relative_list a list of strings, the 
> > followinng comes to mind:
> > 
> > [absolute+'/'+relative for relative in relative_list]
> > 
> > Maybe you wanted something fancier, don't know.
> 
> I suppose it would be nicer or more appropriate to deal with "back
> references" as well as being able to detect "base" elements. For
> example, given the following "base"...
> 
>   http://www.python.org/invented/framework/demo/
> 
> ...and the following URLs...
> 
>   moreinfo.html
>   docs.html
>   ../apps.html
>   ../../stuff.html
>   /index.html
>   http://www.zope.org
> 
> ...one would want to remove certain parts of the "base" before
> concatenating the relative URLs to it. Thus, we would produce these
> absolute URLs:
> 
>   http://www.python.org/invented/framework/demo/moreinfo.html
>   http://www.python.org/invented/framework/demo/docs.html
>   http://www.python.org/invented/framework/apps.html
>   http://www.python.org/invented/stuff.html
>   http://www.python.org/index.html
>   http://www.zope.org
> 
> I'm not so sure that urllib supports such operations, at least not in
> any version of it that I have (from Python 2.0 or 2.1). Instead,
> there's some fairly low-level split operations which aren't especially
> useful in this case. In addition, you might need to use some parser to
> get hold of any "base" elements in the HTML.
> 
> I've written some page-mining tools which help with these kinds of
> activities, and I suppose I should get round to releasing them at some
> point. Let me know if you're interested!
> 
> Paul

This precisely what I'm looking for.  As someone else pointed out in another 
post, urllib should have this but, sadly, does not.
-- 
-----------------------
James A Roush
jar @ mminternet.com
-----------------------


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  6 17:10:43 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:10:43 -0800
Subject: Threading help?
In-Reply-To: <20020306132612.4a5d756a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
	<3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>
	<20020306132612.4a5d756a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020306141043.756855f4.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:26:12 -0800
Cliff Wells wrote:

> The approach I would take, based upon the information given, is to have
> thread A retrieve the data every .1s (using time.sleep),  when the data
is
> retrieved, put it on a Queue and go back to sleep.  Thread B blocks on
the
> Queue until data is available.  When data becomes available, B processes
> that data and place it on a second Queue for thread C (thread C handling
> HTTP requests) to deal with.

Hm.  Okay, I had to reconsider this.  Clearly if the processing is slower
than .1s and data is being added to it every .1s, the Queue is going to
endlessly grow as more data is added to it.  If this is the case, it might
make sense to have more than one consumer thread (B) doing the processing.

Also, if thread C is only interested in serving up the latest results, then
rather than a Queue between threads B and C, I think I would use a shared
object (protected by locks) for holding the last result.  Thread C could
simply take a copy of this object when it gets a HTTP request.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From amrit040 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 02:58:27 2002
From: amrit040 at yahoo.com (Amrit)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 23:58:27 -0800
Subject: telnet
References: <a6obko$743$1@kinder.server.csc.liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <71c0a06e.0203132358.760f2444@posting.google.com>

Try nslookup 

>From the man page 
"""
 ls [option] domain [>> filename]
              List the information available for domain, optionally creating
              or appending to filename. The default output contains host names
              and their Internet addresses.  Option can be one of the follow
              ing:

"""
A.

"M.Beis" <mike at csc.liv.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<a6obko$743$1 at kinder.server.csc.liv.ac.uk>...
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I'm connected to a network with a number of telnet servers. I want to get a
> list with the names (hostnames) of each availiable server.
> 
> Any ideas??
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar  4 21:28:26 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 11:28:26 +0900
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <m3pu2orps5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1015015924.5220.python-list@python.org> <m3n0xsouhc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a60q7d$oqo$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <87n0xn21f9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:

    Bengt> With internal UTF-8 ordinary-string default encoding, I
    Bengt> think there would be a need for a plain old octet string as
    Bengt> a different type

Already in my proposal, I think.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From evil_wicked at ofir.dk  Wed Mar 13 12:54:11 2002
From: evil_wicked at ofir.dk (henrikb666)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:54:11 -0000
Subject: Newbie: Undefined reference when initializing Python
Message-ID: <a6o3o3+2qnj@eGroups.com>

Please bear with me: I'm a hobby programmer who has been coding C and 
C++ for a couple of years under Linux RH 6.2 and I just know how to 
use Emacs and the most useful commands under Linux.

Now I'd like to use Python embedded in a C++ program, but am not sure 
the program is installed properly.
This is what I did so far:

1. DOwnload the V2.2 Python tar.gz
2. gunzip
3. tar -xvf
4. ./configure
5. make
6. as root: make install

THe idea is now to do the following from the C++ code:

void TServer::boot(void)
{
  ...

  // Initialize Python.
  Py_Initialize();

  ...
}

But this error occurs:

[pos at localhost mymud]$ make
g++ -I/home/pos/mymud/include/ -I/home/pos/xerces-c1_6_0-
linux/include/ -I/home/pos/Python-2.2/ -I/home/pos/Python-
2.2/Include -g -c src/TServer.cc
g++ -g -o mymud main.o TServer.o TDesc.o TChar.o TWorld.o Utility.o 
TCommand.o Constants.o TBase.o TPc.o TRoom.o TExit.o TMob.o 
TMobProtoFactory.o TZone.o Movement.o TXMLHandler.o TEvent.o -
L/home/pos/xerces-c1_6_0-linux/lib -lxerces-c1_6_0
TServer.o: In function `TServer::boot(void)':
/home/pos/mymud/src/TServer.cc:85: undefined reference to 
`Py_Initialize'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [mymud] Error 1

I already include <Python.h> at the top of the TServer.cc file, so 
that's not it. Could it have something to do with my Makefile?

Any help is appreciated as a search for "newbie" in the archive here 
didn't turn up anything relevant to this problem.

Thanks for reading,
Henrik Jensen




From justin at iago.org  Fri Mar  1 12:14:54 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:14:54 -0500
Subject: Minor, minor style question
In-Reply-To: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net> (claird@starbase.neosoft.com's
 message of "1 Mar 2002 10:39:42 -0600")
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <x7r8n46whd.fsf@ra.iago.org>

claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

> Why would I prefer
>   string = ""
>   string = string + "abc "
>   string = string + "def "
>   string = string + "xyz"
> over
>   string = "abc " + \
> 	      "def " + \
> 	      "xyz"
> ? 

If those really are the two things being compared, there's a far
better option:

>>> string = ("abc"
...           "def"
...           "xyz")
>>> string
'abcdefxyz'

> I see a lot of the former in contexts I associate
> with Visual Basic- or JavaScript-majority folkways.
> Is there an attraction to the redundancy (and fragil-
> ity!) I'm missing?  Are \-s *so* deprecated?

I can't stand either of the two styles you quoted.  They are both ugly
and more work than is needed.  The first one also creates a
potentially large number of wasteful intermediate strings.

-Justin

 




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Tue Mar  5 07:13:48 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 12:13:48 GMT
Subject: Minor, minor style question
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <a62cps$958$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
> Why would I prefer
>  string = ""
>  string = string + "abc "
>  string = string + "def "
>  string = string + "xyz"
> over
>  string = "abc " + \
>              "def " + \
>              "xyz"
> ?  I see a lot of the former in contexts I associate
> with Visual Basic- or JavaScript-majority folkways.
> Is there an attraction to the redundancy (and fragil-
> ity!) I'm missing?  Are \-s *so* deprecated?
> -- 

Note that a very pleasant alternative for strings in Python is:

s = ("abc "
     "def "
     "xyz")


Frequently the brace context is already taken care of anyway, such
as in function calls:

f("foo "
  "bar "
  "baz", 1, 15)

Generally I try to avoid \ using tricks like this, though I'm not religious
about it. Sometimes a backslash is nicest.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Mar 19 15:03:46 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 12:03:46 -0800
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com>

Andrew McNamara <andrewm at object-craft.com.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list at python.org>...
> Albatross encourages (but doesn't enforce) the separation of presentation
> and logic. You might do something like this in Albatross:
> 
>     <ul>
>     <al-for iter="reptile" expr='["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]'>
>       <li><al-value expr="reptile.value()" whitespace></li>
>     </al-for>
>     </ul>

Why, oh why, does it use HTML-like syntax?  People keep implementing
templating languages that do this over and over, and it's a bad, bad
idea.  Any moderately complex example of templating will violate the
rules of HTML/SGML, with things like <img src="<al-value
expr="something">">, which is horrible to read, will anger WYSIWYG
editors to no end, and isn't at all necessary.

All you have to do is use [] instead of <> -- it look about the same,
will have all the good cognitive associations (how nesting works,
etc), but is orthogonal to HTML, just like your templating system is
orthogonal to HTML.  I.e., you're templates would look like

  <ul>
  [al-for iter="reptile" expr='["Crocodile", "Python"]'] 
    <li>[al-value expr="reptile.value()]</li>
  [/al-for]
  </ul>

This still causes problems with repeating table lines (since they'll
be [al-for...] text between <table> and <tr>), but it will still be
much better.  And it should be trivial to implement :)

  -- Ian Bicking


From cwazir at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 11:30:17 2002
From: cwazir at yahoo.com (Chirag Wazir)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 08:30:17 -0800
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <79c178a9.0203310830.6ec5acd0@posting.google.com>

Hi,

IMHO it's very difficult to choose three specific extensions without
deciding an application domain. There are just so many goodies out
there :-)

If it's of any use to you, I did an introductory two hour Python
seminar at my local ACM chapter and I've put up the slides (which
contain a list of resources, extensions & applications) at my home
page - http://chirag.freeshell.org

Chirag Wazir


aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<a8614l$dfa$1 at panix1.panix.com>...
> I'm teaching Python for [Perl] Programmers at OSCON this July.  I've
> already decided to mention mxODBC, NumPy, and PIL, plus PythonPoint (aka
> ReportLab) gets a mention on my title page.  I'd like this group to vote
> on the most important extensions for me to add to this list.  Please vote
> for no more than three.


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 19 08:00:50 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:00:50 GMT
Subject: Dictionary Comprehension
References: <3mbe9usoufc2f5ppjmk7lh6ks71pgb45f9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u663s674b.fsf@python.net>

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> writes:

> What ever happened to the idea of dictionary comprehension discussed
> (well, mentioned in a timid whisper) in the middle of last year?
> 
> I'm doing some dictionary work right now where I keep seeing all sorts
> of neat applications for the idea.
> 
> I'd really like a concise way to work on a filtered subset of a
> dictionary.

It got made into a PEP:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0274.html

The "Parade of the PEPs" says:

  PEP 274 - Dict Comprehensions - Warsaw

    If we were to adopt dict comprehensions, this PEP says everything
    that needs to be said. But I don't even want to think about this
    for Python 2.3; I think it's way too minor a feature.

    This would be a lot easier to adopt if there was a working
    implementation in patch form.

    Sometimes it would be nice if things like this could be defined
    using hygienic macros or some other kind of preprocessor or
    whatever, and imported from a module, rather than requiring major
    hacking in the parser, the bytecode compiler, and the virtual
    machine.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The above comment may be extremely inflamatory. For your
  protection, it has been rot13'd twice.
                           -- the signature of "JWhitlock" on slashdot


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 11 08:00:51 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:00:51 -0500
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net> <slrna8p159.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E@engcorp.com>

Tim Hammerquist wrote:
> 
> Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> graced us by uttering:
> [ snip ]
> > It sure smells like a hoax. I mean, really:
> >
> [ snip ]
> >
> > "Open and unrestricted"? It sure seems ludicrous to see these
> > words in the same sentence with "Microsoft".
> 
> Didn't you know? Microsoft invented Open Source!  ;)

No, that was Al Gore!


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Mon Mar 11 02:57:24 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:57:24 +0900
Subject: scripting Outlook express with Python
References: <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OfZi8.5$ID.116@news.hananet.net>

Sandy Norton scribbled with his keyboard:
> Does anyone have any experience, code, etc...? I guess my first
> question should be: is it possible?
> 

If you want to customize your mail client, you're using the wrong OS. All 
the customizability is over here in Linux, with procmail and sendmail and 
fetchmail and all sorts of great stuff that you've never even dreamed of - 
even in those really wild dreams where you use your computer for a month 
and it doesn't crash once.

Jonathan



From brad-g-johnson at uiowa.edu  Fri Mar 15 15:44:45 2002
From: brad-g-johnson at uiowa.edu (Johnson, Brad)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:44:45 -0600
Subject: Parsing string into fixed-width pieces
Message-ID: <412F4D3C5614D211853600A0C99E563F0D0D80ED@com83-173.medicine.uiowa.edu>

Hello,

I'm new to Python and have been combing the documentation and the message
archive here for information on splitting a string into fix-width pieces.  I
assume their is an easy way to do this, I just don't seem to be able to find
it in the reference material.  Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Brad

____________________________________
Brad Johnson
Department of Pediatrics - Neurology
200 Hawkins Drive, 2505 JCP
Iowa City, IA 52242-1083
Voice: +1 319 356 1851
Fax: +1 319 356 4855
e-mail: brad-g-johnson at uiowa.edu




From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Wed Mar 27 14:08:26 2002
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:08:26 GMT
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <3CA1BB93.FC00D40D@pop.ntlworld.com> <a7skr8$au5@dispatch.concentric.net> <qglo8.278901$uv5.24407482@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <KMoo8.58992$eh.1652352037@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

"Terry Reedy" wrote:
>
> "Phlip" wrote:
 ...
> > And we wrap all data members in get/set pairs, so the above would
> have been:
> >
> >         x.setTiles([])
>
> 'we'?  The wisdom/folly of using get/set pairs is a matter of
> continuing dispute.  Some of us find the extra work and inefficiency
> distastful.

We at my day gig.

We find just >having< a style guideline slightly more important than the
value of any few marginal items in it.

And we like to find ways to cure the "magic member bug". If you can think of
any others, please share.

--
  Phlip




From tim-dated-1015911613.b601d0 at catseye.net  Tue Mar  5 00:40:12 2002
From: tim-dated-1015911613.b601d0 at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 23:40:12 -0600
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
In-Reply-To: <3C8451E1.B2CD032@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>
	<3C8451E1.B2CD032@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <864rjvh8sj.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> > 
> > Python isn't necessarily slow:
> 
> That sounds like a great title for a Python
> song: "It Ain't Necessarily Slow!"
> 
> Anyone want to contributes some lyrics?

  Things that you're liable
  To read in Deitel & Deitel
  Ain't necessarily so...

Hmm. Not exactly right...

  Strings that you're liable
  To search for, from Friedl
  Ain't necessarily slow!


That's better,

Tim



From aahz at panix.com  Tue Mar  5 12:34:34 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 09:34:34 -0800
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com> <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net>
Message-ID: <a62vja$ca9$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3C841006.634D0059 at tds.net>, Edward K. Ream <edream at tds.net> wrote:
>
>python.org
>  a page about releases of python itself
>    a download page
>  a page about major tools, idle, pychecker, pyunit,
>    with links to the commercial products page,
>  a page about related products & tools,
>    MacPython, Jython, Pippy, Tkinter, etc.
>  a links page, containing subpages or subsections for
>    commercial products
>  an events page
>  the commercial products page.
>  etc.

One of the items on my plate for Real Soon Now is to reorganize the
python.org sections dealing with development into a section called
something like "Python Development (bug reports, patches, and feature
requests)".
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 15 19:06:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 01:06:45 +0100
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <mailman.1016216529.29034.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3vgbxs7e2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:

> Alas, the PC console uses a different character set called CP437,
> which is not Latin-1 compatible.  In CP437, the pound sign
> is 156 and the yen sign is 157.

This isn't really true. The console on Windows (I believe both Win9x,
and NTx) use what MS calls the "OEM" charset. Which code page that is
depends on the Windows installation. In the US English installation,
it is indeed CP437. In the European installations, it is CP852 most of
the time.

>         [in Win2K console]
>         >>> ord(u'?')
>         156    # uhhh, no
>         >>> ord(u'\N{POUND SIGN}')
>         163    # correct answer
> 
>       I think it's fair to say this is a deficiency in current
>       versions of Python.  I believe it will be fixed

This is rather unlikely, I doubt the interactive interpreter will ever
be able to properly identify the encoding of the console window. More
likely, this line will give an error, since no encoding has been
declared.

Regards,
Martin


From george at cc.gatech.edu  Sat Mar  9 15:09:30 2002
From: george at cc.gatech.edu (George Thomas)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:09:30 -0500
Subject: List of lists: caveat?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091505530.12114-100000@laureloak.cc.gatech.edu>

Hi everyone,
I just tried creating a 2D array the 'list-of-lists' way as follows:
two_d_array = [ [0] * 20] * 10 # Creates a 10 * 20 array  -- (I)

two_d_array[0][3] = 1 # Sets element [0][3] to 1

I expected nothing unnerving, except that
print two_d_array[1][3]
gives me 1
as does print two_d_array[any valid index from 0 to 9][3]

What are the exact semantics of the line marked (I) above? If there is a 
caveat, is there any way I can get around it without installing separate 
modules that define array/matrix objects?

rgds
 -- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
who     : george thomas
reduce (lambda c,d:chr(ord(d)-2)+c, 'ofcpqkekhhC"zwpkN"fgtgyqR/pqjv{R')
that is all
-------------------------------------------------------------------------



From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar  9 19:13:22 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:13:22 GMT
Subject: Tkinter + Button widget
References: <3c8a943b$1_3@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <slrna8l99o.1n8.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <3c8a943b$1_3 at nopics.sjc>, Adonis Vargas wrote:
> when i start a button widget, it automatically fires the command?
> 
>     def HideNewClient(self, frame):
>         frame.configure(bd=0, width=0, height=0)
>         return
> 
>         pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
>                                text="Search",
>                                relief=GROOVE,
>                                font=("Tahoma", 10),
>                                width=16,
>                                command=self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient))
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're "firing the command" right there.

You probably want to do something like:

  pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                  [...]
                  command = lambda x=pdb_frmNewClient: self.HideNewClient(x)

or

  def cmdProc():
      return self.HideNewClient(pdb_frmNewClient)
  pdb_btnSearch = Button(pdb_frmCommands,
                  [...]
                  command = cmdProc
      

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Can you MAIL a BEAN
                                  at               CAKE?
                               visi.com            


From msx at crs4.it  Fri Mar 15 06:04:58 2002
From: msx at crs4.it (Federico Caboni)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:04:58 +0100
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work            
	Sincerly, F
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com> <slrna92f39.150k.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <slrna92l23.10i.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrna92leq.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <B8B76AE7.D16%msx@crs4.it>
Message-ID: <B8B793EA.D35%msx@crs4.it>

On 15-03-2002 9:09, in article B8B76AE7.D16%msx at crs4.it, "Federico Caboni"
<msx at crs4.it> wrote:

> On 15-03-2002 4:01, in article slrna92leq.6n5.gerhard at lilith.my-fqdn.de,
> "Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
>>>> No wonder this doesn't work, as you've apparently haven't made very
>>>> much effort to understand what you're doing here.
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry to be so blunt, but you can't write software just by guessing
>>>> about the syntax.
>>> 
>>> Really? I do some of the time, when I don't remember it and can't be
>>> bothered to look in the manual.
>> 
>> Me too, mostly by trying stuff out at Python prompt, for instance if I
>> forgot the semantics of slicing again.
>> 
> 
> I discovered "eval" by guessing....
> I thought something like "It would be cool if existed a statement like
> that".
> I guessed the name too =).
> Well...I agree that this is not the right way to learn Python anyway ;)
> 

BTW... I think that's a proof of Python's beauty.
The statement worked exactly as I espected, and had the same name I
Expected too...
I don't think I could just do the same with C pointers ;)


 
  ____  ____  ____  _  _     ____  _  _  ____
 / ___)| __ \/ ___)/ /| |   / ___)| \| |/ ___) Federico Caboni (msx at crs4.it)
| (___ |    /\___ \\__  | * \___ \|    |\___ \ Software & Network Solutions
 \____)|_|\_\(____/   |_|   (____/|_|\_|(____/ Phone: +39 070 2796 368
 CRS4, Center for Adv. Studies, Research and Development in Sardinia
 



From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:57:03 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 23:57:03 -0000
Subject: Eliminate Spam Now... >g< Python w/DNS/&POP3
References: <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002@typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a73agf$3bt$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002 at typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>,
Benjamin Schollnick  <junkster at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>   I'm attempting to use the (py)DNSlib (sourceforge project), to look 
>up Spammers via ORBZ (or similiar group)...
>
>   And I'm able to pull up the DNS information, but every entry I try 
>response with a valid root level DNS entry....  Can anyone enlighten me
>regarding the operations of the black hole lists?  I can't seem to find
>any of the sights that explain the actual functionality.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8uund5%242et%241%40verence.demon.co.uk&oe=ISO-8859-1&output=gplain

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 19:05:33 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:05:33 -0800
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <10095d00.0203150319.12f9cbf9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C928C4D.20BF73C8@ccvcorp.com>


Noel Smith wrote:

> However I've recently installed python 7.2 on Windows NT4

Wow!  7.2 ?  They really *have* sped up the release cycle...  <wink>


> and found it
> gives the following results when using the command line shell:
>
> >>> print ord('?')
> 156
> >>> print ord('?')
> 157
>
> Which is clearly wrong although strangely enough when I type the same
> thing into IDLE on Windows NT, it produces the correct results.

I believe that the issue here is that Windows does not typically use the
Latin-1 codepage.  You'll have to use the unicode methods to convert to
Latin-1.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International

P.S.  Not that I know what I'm talking about, but hey, this is Usenet --
when has that ever stopped anyone??   <wink>




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Tue Mar  5 18:00:03 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:00:03 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net><mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org><Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com><R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54> <mailman.1015362438.32343.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <T5ch8.2521$pP5.626@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

Yeah, exactly.

h = HTML()

is equivilent to:

HTML* h;
h = new HTML;

and not

HTML h;

In C++ terms, all the variable names are reference counting "smart
pointers", and we know how fun those are to implement. Over and over and
over and over again.




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 03:53:22 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:53:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in 
news:slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net:
> Is there an idiom in Python as to sorting dictionary by value,
> not keys? I came up with some solutions which are so inefficient
> that I'm sure there must be a simple way.
How do you know they are inefficient? Have you profiled your application 
and found this to be a bottleneck?

Anyway, the idiomatic way to sort a dictionary by value, when the key 
doesn't have to be saved:

values = myDictionary.values()
values.sort()

Or, if you want both keys and values:

items = [ (myDictionary[k], k) for k in myDictionary ]
items.sort()
items = [ (k, v) for (v, k) in items ]


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From inerte at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 14:14:30 2002
From: inerte at hotmail.com (Julio Nobrega)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 11:14:30 -0800
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
Message-ID: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>

Hi!

  I am used to do web scripting using PHP. As a new adventure, I am
trying to learn Python. I really wished I could write 'desktop' apps
with Python, but from what I read (and from what I am planning),
that's a little far away from my current trouser snake knowledge (I
also heard you all like those kind of quotes ;-)

  So, I am looking for examples that might help me. Yes, I saw Zope.
Waaaaay too much. Also read Web Programming Topic Guide on python.org,
way less practical than I like. Picky, ain't I? :-)

  I searched for complete (yet simple), or incomplete (yet with
explanations) apps on cgi-resources, parnassus and hotscripts, but I
don't have background to decide what's good or bad Python. And surely
I don't want to start with the wrong foot :-)

  Well, enough is enough, isn't? Where do I start? It's for a weblog
(Kuro5hin-like) system.

  Anyone have a tip for me? Examples? Squisdot is the way to go?

Btw, sorry for any grammer mistakes. My coconuts are in a tropical
zone and english is not my primary language. If anyone does want to
talk in Portuguese, I can :-)

  Thanks a lot,

Julio Nobrega.


From mrlee at davesupply.com  Tue Mar  5 15:40:51 2002
From: mrlee at davesupply.com (Mr.Lee)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:40:51 GMT
Subject: Updating Python...Newbie alert!
Message-ID: <n3ah8.112697$Hu6.28510292@typhoon.neo.rr.com>

Hi all,

        Being quite new to Linux, I am having a bit of a problem when it
comes to updating my installed version of Python(1.5.2) to the version
that I have now(2.2).  
        My problem is that I compiled Python in the directory that I 
downloaded and now I don't know where to put all of the files that were
generated!  It works, I ran the tests and it all came out fine, but I
just don't know where to put the files for maximum efficiency.

Thanks in advance,
Lee McLain

-- 
-------------------------------------
Dave Supply Company
Industrial Diesel Power & Generators
(330) 798-0215 Phone
(330) 798-0276 Fax
www.davesupply.com


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  1 16:21:45 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 21:21:45 GMT
Subject: Securely passing arguments when opening a pipe to a program
References: <3C7FE115.9832EE5C@olen.to>
Message-ID: <a5ord9$24nu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Joonas Paalasmaa <joonas at olen.to>:
| I am using Gnokii to send SMS messages with Python. Gnokii is started
| with 
| popen2.popen2 like this:
|
| gnokiiRead, gnokiiWrite = popen2.popen2("gnokii --sendsms %s" %
| phonenumber)
| gnokiiWrite.write(message)
| gnokiiWrite.close()
| response = gnokiiRead.read()
| gnokiiRead.close()
|
| The problem is that the phonenumber string is not safe; it can even be
| "000; rm -fR ~/*". How can I securely pass arguments when opening the
| pipe?
| Is there a way to pass the arguments like in os.execv.

Yes!  I hear this isn't documented as well as it could be, but
popen2 accepts either a string or a sequence, and in the latter
case the sequence is argv, like in os.execv.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Sun Mar 31 17:10:19 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:10:19 +1100
Subject: OT: Daylight savings time (was Re: Subclass sadness (was Re:  [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type))
In-Reply-To: <3CA73486.72B4059F@engcorp.com>
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017555459.10956.python-list@python.org> <3CA73486.72B4059F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200203312210.WAA03664@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 02:08, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Richard Jones wrote:
> > Hrm, just following this thought here, possibly for no good reason at all
> > (hey, it's Sunday, and daylight savings just ended so I've got a whole
> > _hour_ extra to waste today :)...
>
> In which country?  Good thing it's not a work day, since I took your
> word for it last night...  or was that another advance April Fools joke?

Australia, in Victoria at least - don't know about the other states :)


    Richard



From carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com  Fri Mar  1 13:49:47 2002
From: carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com (Mike Carifio)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:49:47 GMT
Subject: __abs(self)__?
Message-ID: <f3Qf8.2391$26.139172@typhoon.maine.rr.com>

I'm reading about special method names. __abs__(self), which maps to the
abs() method seems unneccessary(?).
So:

class ExampleNumber:
    def __init__(self, initializer):
        self.value = initializer
    def __abs__(self):
        return abs(self.value)

>>> x = ExampleNumber(-1)
>>> x.abs()
1

seems no different from:

class ExampleNumber:
    def __init__(self, initializer):
        self.value = initializer
    def abs(self):   # name isn't special?
        return abs(self.value)

abs is a builtin function, so why do I need a special name for a function?
I'm missing something...




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar 20 21:29:38 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:29:38 -0500
Subject: A question about generators
In-Reply-To: <x77ko61ycf.fsf@moran.grauel.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFLOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Richard J Kuhns]
> That's pretty much what I ended up doing -- I put a "while 1:" loop
> around the rest of the code in the generator, and I test a "reset
> generator" variable after each yield.  If it's set, "continue" the
> while loop. It's kind of nasty-looking, but it seems to work.

Make the generator a method of a class.  Give class instances a "reset
generator" variable.  Give the class a reset() method to set this variable.
Then it's all nice, abstracted, reusable, and self-contained.

a-feature-in-isolation-is-a-feature-doomed-to-misuse-ly y'rs  - tim




From ftobin at neverending.org  Mon Mar 11 23:39:59 2002
From: ftobin at neverending.org (Frank Tobin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:39:59 GMT
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1015851019.8195.python-list@python.org>
References: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de> <20020311140817.L25769@phd.pp.ru>
 <3C8CA56B.7050505@med.uni-tuebingen.de> <mailman.1015851019.8195.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20020311233409.A30846-100000@palanthas.neverending.org>

Oleg Broytmann, on 2002-03-11, wrote:

> > Are the sources available somewhere?
> > Is there a new home page for Gadfly?
> > Is there anybody who will maintain such a page?
>
>    My answer is no better than http://sourceforge.net/projects/gadfly/

Except for the fact that that project was registered over 2 years ago, and
has had 0 activity...

-- 
Frank Tobin		http://www.neverending.org/~ftobin/



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar  5 18:10:28 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:10:28 -0600
Subject: Need feedback - What are the elements of a good hosting service?
Message-ID: <15493.20580.46393.626539@beluga.mojam.com>

About two months ago I started working on a "hosting" page similar to the
"editors" page I maintain) for the python.org website.  It went idle for
awhile, but I want to pick it back up and make something available for the
community.  It's clear from the traffic on the subject that this would be
useful for people.

In parallel, I have been working on a website for what I hope to be my own
software consulting company.  Viewing it as more of a marketing tool than
anything else, I selected a company I thought was fairly well tuned into the
Python community.  During this startup period, I've been struggling to
master elements of their service and have found that standard questions like

    * What version of Python is installed?

    * Can I write my own CGI scripts?

    * How much disk space do I get?

    * How much does it cost?

were definitely *not* sufficient to decide if the service is going to be
adequate to meet my needs.

I don't want things to get too out-of-hand or I'll never release anything,
but I would like some feedback from people on what they find to be the
important secondary issues over and above the obvious stuff above.  I won't
bias the discussion at this point with my own experiences (besides, I have
to get home and cook dinner ;-), but will post something in the next day or
three myself.  Hint: I suspect many of these same secondary issues would be
important no matter how you choose to implement a website that contains
programming elements (CGI scripts, Zope, Webware, mod_python, whatever)
implemented in just about any language (Perl, Python, Tcl, Ruby, C, VB,
...).

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From jfg.removeplease.noospaam at netinfo.fr  Mon Mar 25 16:24:21 2002
From: jfg.removeplease.noospaam at netinfo.fr (jeff)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:24:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PHP to Python
Message-ID: <Xns91DCE3FDC2EE3Djeff999@62.4.16.73>

I'm looking for a tool to translate code from PHP to Python.

Does it exists ?


From dortmann at lsil.com  Tue Mar 26 15:46:01 2002
From: dortmann at lsil.com (Daniel Ortmann)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 14:46:01 -0600
Subject: hang in urllib.read()?
References: <mailman.1017016298.24686.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m31ye72h2u.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>

"Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com> writes:

> The (presumably) infinite loop that I thought was in sgmllib, about
> which I posted earlier, actually seems to be when I call read() on an
> urllib.urlopen object.  It's terribly non-reproducible, though -- I'm
> retrieving lots of pages and sometimes it'll go for dozens and dozens,
> no problem.  Other time it hangs after just a few.  And it won't do it
> on the same page twice, as far as I can see.

> I've been unable to find anything like this searching...  sound
> familiar to anyone, or any suggestions for nailing it down, short of
> gruesome stepping through with a debugger, hoping I can catch one...?

> This is on Win2000 with Python 2.2.  Haven't tried on other platforms
> yet.

Hello,

Could this information help?

The web page, "Known bugs in Python 2.2", says:

    "The ftplib module's FTP class was supposed to default to paassive
    mode.  Unfortunately it doesn't.  This means that urllib.urlopen()
    doesn't work from inside most firewalls.  If you have this problem,
    delete or comment out line 117, 'self.passiveserver = 0', from file
    ftplib.py".

-- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic
3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester, MN 55901
dortmann at lsil.com / 507.535.3861 (w) / 6-3861 (int)
ortmann at isl.net   / 507.288.7732 (h)


From nbecker at fred.net  Fri Mar  8 10:21:17 2002
From: nbecker at fred.net (N Becker)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 07:21:17 -0800
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
Message-ID: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>

Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).

I wonder if there is anything new.  It looks to me that the 
best answer is to use lambda.

example:

def f():
  return lambda: os.chmod(""/root/.rhosts", 0644)

def g():
  f()


From quinn at pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Mar  9 00:21:36 2002
From: quinn at pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 05:21:36 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org> <slrna846q3.me3.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <a5u736$60u$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrna8j6v0.l47.quinn@pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 3 Mar 2002 22:11:50 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>>It should give an error - 5 is not a sequence, so 'i in 5' is nonsense.
>>
>No, it's not nonsense. 'i in 5' is a probability, so
>
>    for i in 5:
>        do_this()
>
>should have an i/5.0 chance of executing do_this().

Reminds me of icon's 'random' operator.

Along with its 500 other operators.


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 12 04:03:12 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:03:12 GMT
Subject: Redirecting output in Windows NT
References: <96e9dee5.0203120044.33a1e19c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8DC473.2070809@skippinet.com.au>

Paul Lydon wrote:
> Running Python 2.2 on Windows NT 4 Workstation.
> Suppose I have a Python program named 'splat.py' consisting of:
> "print 'splat'".
> 
> If I type 'splat' and hit 'Enter', NT knows that it must run the
> Python interpretor and I see 'splat' on the screen. If I redirect the
> output to a file:
> 'splat > splat.txt', the resulting file is 0 bytes long and empty.
> 
> If I run the same program directly by typing 'python splat.py', again
> I see 'splat' on the screen and when the output is redirected 'python
> splat.py > splat.txt' I get a file containing the string 'splat' (as
> you would expect).
> 
> Any ideas why the output redirection doesn't work in the first place?

It is a bug in the NT command prompt.  Works OK in Win2k.  I believe 
there is a FAQ on it too.

Mark.



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 29 22:42:00 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 03:42:00 GMT
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
References: <3CA4C09B.D9D15464@bellsouth.net> <a82h2l$qk5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a83c68$ljf$0@216.39.172.122>

On 29 Mar 2002 19:59:17 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:29:31 -0500, Jeff Layton <laytonjb at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>   I'm still learning Python and I'm playing around with some
>>code that creates a class. I've mastered that stage already.
>>However, what I want to do is create multiple instances of
>>the class and put them into a list.
>>   If the class is called Bob, then I want to do something like,
>>
>>
>>a = []
>>a[0] = Bob('input1')
>>
>>
>>and so on. Everytime I try something like this I get the following
>>error message:
>>
>>
>>a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
>>IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>>
>Because there is no a[0] yet if a is []
>>
>>   I also tried it this way,
>>
>>
>>a = []
>>a.append = Bob('localhost')
>>
>That much should work. Can you copy and paste an actual interactive snippet? E.g.,
>
Oops, misread that, sorry. That really should have gotten you the error (on 2.2 at least):

    message AttributeError: 'list' object attribute 'append' is read-only

which would have been a good clue.

The following is verbatim from my screen however (see how much more reliable that is? ;-)

> >>> class Bob:
> ...     def __init__(self,v):
> ...         self.v = v
> ...     def show(self):
> ...         print 'This is a Bob instance with v = %s' % self.v
> ...
> >>> a = []
> >>> a.append(Bob('localhost'))
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- what I thought I read above, which is why I "reproduced" it.
> >>> a
> [<__main__.Bob instance at 0x007CF4A0>]
> >>> a[0]
> <__main__.Bob instance at 0x007CF4A0>
> >>> a[0].show()
> This is a Bob instance with v = localhost
>
>>
>>and I get the error message:
>>
>>
>>a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
>>IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>>
>a must have still been [], but who can tell from what you posted?
>
>>   Can anyone shed some light into how I do this? Or is
>>there a better way?
>>
>Post a log of minimal failing code sufficient for anyone
>to duplicate your problem.
>
Always best.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar 23 13:13:01 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:13:01 -0800
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.1016859396.28725.python-list@python.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a7igv9$l1i60$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

phil hunt
> >> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.
> 
> Is the source for this available?
> 

Look in the Tools directory - I found a copy there.

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar 17 11:24:50 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:24:50 -0600
Subject: XML-RPC Bug?
In-Reply-To: <cf0ad9fb.0203170717.2f20afb0@posting.google.com>
References: <cf0ad9fb.0203170717.2f20afb0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15508.50002.132189.479966@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Jesper> With xmlrpclib & SimpleXMLRPCServer it is possible to call
    Jesper> procedures remotly, which return various simple python types.

    Jesper> If I call a procedure that returns nothing, I get a
    Jesper> "<ProtocolError: 500 Internal error>"

    Jesper> Surely that is a bug?

Actually, no it's not.  XML-RPC supports a limited set of data types.  It
doesn't support a nil or None type.  For details, check the XML-RPC spec:

    http://www.xmlrpc.com/spec

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Mar 23 08:54:10 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 13:54:10 GMT
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <slrna9kl55.rd2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <a7i1e2$dco$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

A.M. Kuchling <akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org> wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000 at mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
>        John J. Lee wrote:
>> [OT: A question I've asked many times and got no answer to is 'why has
>> nobody done self-consistent ranking for academic papers'?  I fear the

> Have you seen CiteSeer, at http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs ?  It crawls
> the Web for papers, and then assembles a graph of citations.

Also known as www.researchindex.org. An extremely useful resource. I
sometimes marvel about how the internet, especially with resources
like researchindex, allows small independent developers to benefit from so much
research. A decade ago there was nothing like this available; what there
was was in university libraries and the libraries of large companies that
can afford a research department -- and it was far less convenient to boot.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From haep1004 at dreamwiz.com  Tue Mar  5 11:46:01 2002
From: haep1004 at dreamwiz.com (Haeyoung Kim)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 08:46:01 -0800
Subject: fork and thread and signal... oooooops
Message-ID: <87550ef1.0203050846.2166835e@posting.google.com>

I know little about system programming, so my code has become a
monster.
My situation is : 1) used /etc/init.d script functions such as daemon,
killproc to start/stop python script.
2) python script is composed of two tasks. launching java server
program and running script that connects that server to see if it's
alive or dead.
so, I programmed python script like this.

PID = 0
ISALIVE = 1

def exitProgram():
    ISALIVE=0
    killServer()

def killServer():
    if PID:
	os.kill(PID,SIGINT)
	PID = 0

class Monitor(Thread):
    def run(self):
        # connect to server and check its heartbeat
	# and call restartServer and exit when server is dead.

def launchServer():
    pid = fork()
    if not pid:
	execv('java',args)	#launch server
    else:
	PID = pid		#start cheking server heartbeat
	Monitor().start()	#and set PID for killing server.
	p, e = os.wait()	#wait until server is killed
				#because of killServer or restartSErver.

#hope to clean up java server when shell script 'killproc' terminate
#this script
signal.signal( SIGINT, exitProgram ) 
signal.signal( SIGHUP, exitProgram ) 

if __name__==__main__:
    pid = fork()
    if not pid: os.exit
    else:
	pid = fork()
	if not pid: os.exit
	else:			#now start main program
	    while ISALIVE:
		launchServer()

Yes, it's stupid. But I didn't imagined such a picture at first. 
When shell script calls killproc(in init.d script), it sends signal,
and kill server-using os.kill(java_server_pid)- and get out of
os.wait() and died out generously - just my hope.
But it betrayed my hope. it throws TypeError on os.wait(), killed
anyway, but there are still my java program. :(
I think signal doesn't call exitProgram() - why?
Is there any clean solution to such a matter?
thanks in advance your kindness for reading my naive code.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 14:00:50 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:00:50 +0000
Subject: Autodiscovery of proxy settings from a python script
References: <R%5i8.1615$K%4.11598019@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <7EHvmJAipQi8Ew$x@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <R%5i8.1615$K%4.11598019 at news-text.cableinet.net>, Andy Robinson <andy at reportlab.com> writes
>A firm we are working with want to demonstrate some Python web services
>software, which will connect from a windows desktop to a known server on the
>internet.  It is a safe bet that the demos will be given behind firewalls,
>but that the customers will be able to browse the web from either IE or
>Netscape.  The problem is that both the guys giving the demos and the
>potential customers will not be very technical, and saying "what's your
>proxy server settings" will likely spark fear, paralysis and wasted visits
>:-)  If they have a locked down IE distribution, the settings will just say
>"auto detect" and the salesman won't be wiser.
>
>Ideally I'd like a script that knew where IE and Netscape and a few other
>packages kept their proxy settings, and also know about the most common
>auto-discovery protocols.  It could try various things in succession until
>it made a comnnection, or gave up and asked.  The salesmen could email a
>small program to the client and say "try this" ahead of time and would at
>least know what to expect.  We're already committed to installing python and
>COM so can use just about any tools needed.
>
>Has anyone done this before?  Any suggestions how to go about it?
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Andy Robinson
>ReportLab Inc.
>
>
I found the following using google find proxy server python

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=10&q=http://compnetworking.about.com/library/weekly/aa061000b.htm&e=922
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4970/fid/245

The first mentions the wpad protocol which is recognized by IE.
-- 
Robin Becker


From drew at level3.net  Fri Mar 29 10:35:39 2002
From: drew at level3.net (Drew Fisher)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 08:35:39 -0700
Subject: Function problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203300945170.3950-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203300945170.3950-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1017416139.1508.51.camel@beast.l3.com>

> 
> G'day:
> 
> Can someone tell me why this function stops printing after looping through
> the <option> section, before </select> ? Everything prints to the browser
> up to the last while loop, then from </select> there is nothing more.

I'm not entirely sure, but I'll show you what I would do.

> 
> I'm new to Python and tend to try to use PHP idioms too much, but I can't
> see what is wrong here.
> 
> Also, am I using MySQLdb's c.close() correctly here? Any really bad Python
> in this example?

Yes.

> 
> ----------
> def ShowCats():
> 	print "<form action=\"http://olc.localdomain/cgi-bin/shopcat/shopcat.py\" method=\"post\">"
> 	print "<select name=\"cat\">" 
> 	db = MySQLdb.connect(user="abc",passwd="xyz",db="shopcat_db")
> 	c = db.cursor()
> 	query = c.execute("SELECT category FROM categories")
> 	while query:
> 		result = c.fetchone()
> 		category = result[0]
> 		print "<option value='%s'>%s</option>" % (category,category)
> 	print "</select>"
> 	print "<input type='hidden' name='action' value='showall'>"
> 	print "<input type='submit' value='SUBMIT'>"
> 	print "</form>"
> 	c.close()
> 

Instead of using fetchone, try using fetchall:
query = c.execute ("SELECT category FROM categories")
list = c.fetchall ()
for entry in list:
	print "<option value='%s'>%s</option>" % (entry, entry)
print "</select>"
.
.


This just does the one query and pulls out all of the data at one time. 
The c.fetchone() hits the database each time the while loop repeats.

Hope this help.

Drew Fisher



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Sat Mar 23 07:09:00 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:09:00 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <m3d6xvh35a.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
References: <mailman.1016870917.2350.python-list@python.org> <m3d6xvh35a.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <20020323120859.GA325@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> [2002-03-23 23:36 +1100]:
> Michael> Is this the right list for general questions about using the
> Michael> MySQLdb module?
 
It's an OK place. MySQLdb author Andy Dustman has recently also opened up a
mailing list for his Python modules. It can be found on his personal homepage,
IIRC.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))



From fdrake at acm.org  Thu Mar 14 18:09:19 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:09:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020314230919.8838E18ECEF@grendel.zope.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/maint-docs/

Current version of docs in preparation for the 2.2.1 candidate.




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar 21 20:25:09 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:25:09 +1200
Subject: A question about generators
References: <mailman.1016677895.17368.python-list@python.org> <x7663pgbs1.fsf@moran.grauel.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A87F5.8EA76936@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Richard J Kuhns wrote:
> 
> That's EXACTLY what I did :).  The main reason I had problems to start with
> is that almost everything I've done with python feels more-or-less
> "elegant", and this doesn't.

Well, generators weren't designed for the sort of problems
that require restartability.

Is there some reason you absolutely can't just create
a new instance of the generator each time you need
to restart? That would be the most elegant way,
if you can manage it.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Mon Mar 11 05:16:20 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:16:20 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8p10d.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> graced us by uttering:
> Hans Nowak wrote:
>> It's not April 1st yet...

It's not a joke. In fact, it's been discussed several times in this NG.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=slrn9uvnid.pe3.tim%40vegeta.ath.cx

> Can anyone using a recent version of Microsoft development tools
> confirm whether it's a hoax or not?

Yup. I don't use the software, but MS still has the EULA on their site.
Here's the link... still good after these several months.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/Downloads/eula_mit.htm

> If it isn't, this is bad news...

AFAIK, this is only on this (and maybe a few other packages of)
software. I'd be interested to see if Microsoft tries this again, what
with their pseudo-victory and several more pending lawsuits...

...which reminds me...

* off to http://userfriendly.org/ * ;)

Tim Hammerquist
-- 
No prisoner's dilemma here.  Over the long term, symbiosis is more
useful than parasitism.  More fun, too.  Ask any mitochondria.
    -- Larry Wall in <199705102042.NAA00851 at wall.org>


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Mar 26 07:38:21 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:38:21 GMT
Subject: running python on win2k
References: <mailman.1017139719.4759.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uofhbec8n.fsf@online.no>

"stclaus_imi" <cunsan at lycos.com> writes:

> hi, all of you.
> 
> i downloaded python for win2k. i wonder how to run it via the command
> 
> line and over the apache/iis web server.
> 

For using in cgi script with IIS use inetmgr (mmc snap in for iis) and
configure the App Mappings for the .py ending to python "%s" %s.
-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar  4 18:16:07 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 17:16:07 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar  4)
Message-ID: <94973796EA6A3423.37249018D69BC20F.284B57DC21EAB740@lp.airnews.net>

QOTW:  "What I find most amusing about com and .NET is that they are trying
to solve a problem I only had when programming using MS tools." -MaxM
    http://groups.google.com/groups?th=5e0d677b44e1e91a

"I suppose the fact that I get 20 emails in response to this question
is a sign, I know you couldn't get 20 positive third party
comparisons of VB to Python." -Stefan Kuzminski on Python advocacy
    http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f1ec289d99f2be87

"It COULD be a feature despite its creepy-crawly, six-legged,
hive-dwelling, crumb-eating nature."  -Raymond Hettinger on a
little-known Python quirk
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a5v1r1%24aji%241%40bob.news.rcn.net

"As Zenin points out, Python uses objects to emulate closures, whereas
Lisp uses closures to emulate objects." -Martin v. L?wis
    http://groups.google.com/groups?th=7ae69320e338064a


    Martin v. L?wis revives and revises PEP 263.  It aims to treat Python
    code itself as Unicode data, enabling programmers to include Unicode
    strings in Python programs more naturally.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ae0e91b136e81f15
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0263.html
    
    Gerhard H?ring shows how to play an MP3 file using pygame.
    (Five lines of code.)
      http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1015034704.11911.python-list%40python.org
        http://www.pygame.org/download.shtml
    
    Papercut is a multi-threaded news server written in Python.
        http://pessoal.org/papercut/index.php
    
    Decompyle converts Python byte-code back into Python source.
        http://www.goebel-consult.de/decompyle/
    
    TWAIN is an industry standard API for scanners, digital cameras, and
    other imaging equipment.  A new extension provides TWAIN for Python.
        http://twainmodule.sourceforge.net/
    
    JPE 2.0 is released.  JPE, the Java-Python Extension, allows
    CPython programs to call Java code - and vice versa.
        http://jpe.sourceforge.net/
    
    The UN Bot intelligently navigates Quake 2 game worlds.  The goal:
    human-like exploration behavior.  (Scriptable in Python, of course.)
        http://bots.ai-depot.com/UN-Bot.html
    
    py2html.py version 0.7 converts Python code to color-coded XHTML.
        http://www.egenix.com/files/python/SoftwareDescriptions.html#py2html.py
        http://www.egenix.com/files/python/py2html.py.html
    
    PyChecker checks Python programs for common mistakes.
    A mailing list has been created for PyChecker discussion:
        http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pychecker-list
    
    PyBoids - Flocking behavior fun in Python.
        http://www.dma.org/~tw/pyboids/


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
	 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continued Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week, into July 2001.  Any volunteers to re-start this
    valuable series?
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
	http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com
     
    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Tenth International Python Conference 
        http://www.python10.org            

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 22:19:42 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:19:42 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015468151.15908.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-189E9B.19194206032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015468151.15908.python-list at python.org>,
 "Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> >And please avoid the ad-hominems ("too lazy to learn the >language"), it
> doesn't contribute to rational debate.
> 
> And I would beg you to amend your PEP to remove reference to novice users.
> This has become the Mom and Apple Pie of PEP writers.  And I have yet to see
> it in the context of the most straight forward meaning - to remove barriers
> to learning to program for people motivated to learn to program.

I apologize for the unclarity.  I meant to refer to competent 
programmers in other languages who are novices at Python programming.

But maybe that is not the best group of people to refer to, otherwise we 
would be debating proposals for C-like for(x;y;z) syntax.


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 08:26:59 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:26:59 -0000
Subject: How to install pychecker?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCE6A@intrepid>

> From:	Dale Strickland-Clark [SMTP:dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk]
> In the absence of any instructions (that I can find) I tried unzipping
> it to a directory and running setup.py.
> 
> I got this:
> 
> C:\Program Files\pychecker-0.8.10>setup.py
> usage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
>    or: setup.py --help [cmd1 cmd2 ...]
>    or: setup.py --help-commands
>    or: setup.py cmd --help
> 
> error: no commands supplied
 
setup.py install

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Mar  4 12:38:34 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:38:34 +0300
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
In-Reply-To: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>; from torstenson@no-spam.oti-hsv.com on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 11:31:46AM -0600
References: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020304203834.C11643@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 11:31:46AM -0600, Eric Torstenson wrote:
>         self.fLog=open(filename, mode='w')
>     IOError: invalid argument: w

   Do you have the os module imported? Especially in the form
"from os import *" or "from os import open"?

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Mar  4 10:03:05 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:03:05 +0000
Subject: Response to resizing window
References: <a5vub7$fn3$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <a5vuj7$qtk$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi Xiao-Qin,

Xiao-Qin Xia wrote:
> I want to redraw the chart whenever the window is resized. Anybody
> can show me how to do it? (I guess I need something like WM_DELETE_WINDOW)

A regular binding on "<Configure>" events should do the trick.

HTH
 - eric -


From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Fri Mar 15 10:05:41 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:05:41 -0500
Subject: line-by-line file read
In-Reply-To: <7xhenix861.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>; from phr-n2002a@nightsong.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:38:46AM -0800
References: <mailman.1016195485.1199.python-list@python.org> <7xhenix861.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20020315100541.A17443@phy.duke.edu>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:38:46AM -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Michael Stenner <mstenner at phy.duke.edu> writes:
> > I often find myself reading and processing a file line-by-line.  The
> > way I usually end up doing it goes something like this
> > 
> >     fo = open(filename)
> >     line = fo.readline()
> >     while line:
> > 	# do the processing on "line" here
> >         line = fo.readline()
> >     fo.close()
> > ...
> > Anyway... just wondering if there's a preferred way to do this.
> 
> fo = open(filename)
> for line in fo.xreadlines():
>    # process the line
> fo.close()

Ahh... thank you, Paul (and others).  I had been looking at the 1.5.2
docs (for good reason).  I've been finding lots of reasons to go
with 2.x lately... looks like I found another one :)

					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar  3 17:11:50 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 22:11:50 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org> <slrna846q3.me3.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <a5u736$60u$0@216.39.172.122>

On 3 Mar 2002 12:50:24 GMT, scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich) wrote:

>Cromwell, Jeremy <jcromwell at ciena.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
>> If python was to allow "for i in 5:", is there any other meaning that would
>> be appropriate besides the one detailed in PEP 276?
>
>Yes.
>
>It should give an error - 5 is not a sequence, so 'i in 5' is nonsense.
>
No, it's not nonsense. 'i in 5' is a probability, so

    for i in 5:
        do_this()

should have an i/5.0 chance of executing do_this().

;-))



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 10:23:12 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:23:12 GMT
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <7xd6xwntgx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <c76ff6fc.0203230339.48961684@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <A51n8.216264$uv5.18611282@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:c76ff6fc.0203230339.48961684 at posting.google.com...
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:<7xd6xwntgx.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> > counts = {}
> > a = string.split(open(sys.argv[1],'r').read())
> > for w in a:
> >   if counts.has_key(w):
> >      counts[w] += 1
> >   else:
> >      counts[w] = 1
> >
> > words = counts.keys()
> > words.sort()
> > words.reverse()
> >
> > for w in words:
> >    print words[w], w
>
> Sorry, but this doesn't work. If you were to actually *run* your
code,
> you would get this result [after adding
>
> import string, sys
>
> at the start of the script]:
>
>     print words[w], w
> TypeError: sequence index must be integer
...
> Try replacing the last part of the script with:
>
> words = [(-count, word) for word, count in counts.items()]
> words.sort()
> for count, word in words:
>    print word, -count

or, I believe, change the last line to
     print counts[w], w





From grante at visi.com  Wed Mar 20 14:58:32 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:58:32 GMT
Subject: Attachments to the list/group - OK?  (Was Re: Popular style document?)
References: <mailman.1016647893.2182.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IR5m8.37085$N7.6537007@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1016647893.2182.python-list at python.org>, brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Andy Gimblett wrote:
> 
>> I've just noticed that most people seem to embed their code directly
>> into their messages.  Is attaching .py files (or any other
>> non-binaries) frowned upon around here?
> 
> I won't speak for others, but the likelihood of me opening an attachment
> to look at code is close to zero... just too annoying.

I wasn't aware that the "attachment" concept was even
applicable to Usenet articles.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If I had a Q-TIP, I
                                  at               could prevent th' collapse
                               visi.com            of NEGOTIATIONS!!


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 23:16:53 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 04:16:53 GMT
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <k8i59ugsco5t1m0tmeq738nc64eg9nal6n@4ax.com>

d1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)
>
>However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
>uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.

The interpreter is your friend:

>>> mylist = []
>>> for i in range(1,10):
	mylist.append( "myitem" +`i` )

	
>>> mylist
['myitem1', 'myitem2', 'myitem3', 'myitem4', 'myitem5', 'myitem6', 'myitem7', 'myitem8',
'myitem9']
>>> 

C//



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 12 15:51:44 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 21:51:44 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Samuele Pedroni" <pedronis at bluewin.ch> writes:

> And what datapoints we acquire through the article?

I think the article states a number of facts properly:

"Despite his best efforts, there just isn't a lot of interest from the
community in seeing Python move further into the Microsoft compound."

Certainly true; there is little interest in Python.NET in the Python
community (just as there is little interest in other branches, such as
Stackless, Psyco, and, to some degree, Jython).

"Hammond says Python developers tend to be wary and sceptical of
Microsoft's motives"

I'm quite sure Hammond said that, and I also agree with Mark. I'm
myself wary and sceptical of Microsoft motives, and I know many other
people who are.

"Hammond was working for Active State, a Canadian software tools
developer, but was laid off two months ago."

This fact is not news to us, but may be to other readers.

"One of the problems Hammond and de Icaza face is the morass of
confusion surrounding the exact nature of .NET. Microsoft may have
deliberately muddied the waters, confusing the casual IT user and
business managers especially."

That is certainly not overstated. I find confusion over what .NET
exactly is and does among my peers, and I agree that Microsoft itself
is source of some of the confusion.

Regards,
Martin


From loredo at astro.cornell.edu  Mon Mar 25 17:41:15 2002
From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:41:15 -0500
Subject: Installing Piddle plotting 1.014 on a Macintosh. Problems.
References: <250320021555391378%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3C9FA78B.B7E0E902@astro.cornell.edu>

Lou-

I can't vouch that Piddle has been updated to work properly this way
on the Mac, but what you should try is to drop the "setup.py" file
on the *Interpreter* (not the IDE), and when a command window pops
up, type in "build" (to build the package in the current directory)
or "install" (to build it and copy it to your site-packages directory
so it is accessible elsewhere).  As long as Piddle doesn't do something
out of the ordinary, this should work on a Mac (though if Piddle builds
C extensions, you'll need to have a copy of Codewarrior somewhere
on your drive, and if you don't have the newest version check the
MacPython page for info on what to change to get compatibility with
old Codewarrior).

-Tom Loredo


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 15:03:48 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:03:48 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF7134CD7E.20A06375-ON88256B73.006B4DA1@i2.com>

[Fernando P?rez]
> When 'for i in 5' becomes valid, what we are saying is, the object '5'
> knows how to count.

*You* can say that if you like; but PEP 276 doesn't say that <wink>.  It
just proposes an iterator for class int whereby said iterator generates the
-- well, I was about to use the word "natural", but I think I'll skip that
<wink> -- "useful" sequence 0,1,...,n-1.

> Apparently this is ok, but I see problems: '5' is an integer,
> but there are also negative numbers in the integers. So how do we
> interpret 'for i in -3'?

PEP 276 (currently) proposes that "for i in -3" acts just like "for i in
xrange(-3)" currently does.  Carel Fellinger suggests that it might be
quite handy to have it act just like "for i in xrange(-1,-3-1,-1)",
instead. And Emile van Sebille, with only a semi-smiley attached (a smiley
semi-attached?) suggests that the reverse ordering would be better, should
the empty set not be returned in such a case.

> While one can argue that 0..4 is a 'natural' way to count for
> positive integers, the same argument becomes difficult to make
> for negative numbers. And by the way, as far as counting goes one
> could argue that 1..5 is even more natural, as it truly spans the
> set of the natural numbers of which 5 is a member, as opposed to

Bet you didn't think *that* was going to be so controversial <wink>.

> the less 'standard' set of the 'non-negative integers less than 5'.
> But that's a minor nit-pick.

Easy answer: forget about "counting" and consider this interesting excerpt
from range.__doc__
    "For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3].
    The end point is omitted!
    These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements."
Take special note of the last sentence <wink>.

> The problem in my view is that when something is an object, its
> methods should do something which is reasonably natural and well defined
> for _all_ instances of a class. So when we ask the integers to have a
> counting method (via an iterator), I would want to have that counter
> behave sensibly for _any_ integer. And unfortunately, there's just no way
> to make such a definition IMHO.

Why is there "just no way to make such a definition"?

Please consider the following:
    for integer n, iter(n) produces the same values as iter(xrange(n))

> So this ends up introducing lots of context-sensitivity and
> special-casing (things work _this_ way for non-negative integers,
> which is not too clean but commonly useufl, and do _that_ for negative
> ones because someone thought it would be a usefu default...) Down that
> road lies Perl, and it seems to break very harshly the 'explicit is
better
> than explicit' principle of Python design which I feel has served the
> language so well thus far.

That seems a lot more complicated than PEP 276 <wink>.

> So in summary, it's not that I dislike integers being treated
> truly as objects, but rather that I want them to be clean objects.
> Objects whose methods behave in sensible ways for all instances of a
> class, not full of special defaults.

PEP 276 merely suggests that "for i in -3" should crash your program in the
same way that "for i in xrange(-3)" does <wink>.

Jim




From mcfletch at geocities.com  Mon Mar 11 03:40:41 2002
From: mcfletch at geocities.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:40:41 -0500
Subject: How to compute sunset and dawn times with python?
References: <22722a23.0203080841.3ed7166a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C6D89.2090302@geocities.com>

Since it seems no-one has responded, I put together a quicky module
showing a way to do this.  The code is taken from a US Gov't (SRRB)
web-site, but it's billed as "low accuracy", so don't take it as gospel
(it's off by a minute in 2 of the 6 test dates I tried against the
online (accurate) one).

This web-site has a javascript implementation of certain of the
functions that are used in the online version someone who wanted could
translate those.

The Python module is available here:
	http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/programming/
	(sunriseset.py)

SRRB Sunrise Calculator:
	http://www.srrb.noaa.gov/highlights/sunrise/sunrise.html

HTH,
Mike


Tist Verdonck wrote:
 > Does anyone know how to compute sunset and dawn times with python?
 >
 > thanx,
 > Tist
 >
_______________________________________
    Mike C. Fletcher
    http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 18:50:12 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 15:50:12 -0800
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <a7nrvd$7sbdt$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0203251550.6abf0664@posting.google.com>

I would tend to agree with this approach, for simplicity.  One could
take it to an extreme and have a program that creates a file and
writes large random numbers to the file until the file is nothing but
a huge (HUGE) string of numbers (with a file size in the MBs).  What
you may end up with a number that is a couple of million digits long. 
Then, you write a module to access it.  The module will ask the user
how many digits they desire in their random number, the module will
start off at a arbitrary point in the file and read that many digits. 
The module will convert the string of numbers into a L and return it.
Alternatively, write a program that will seed a random number [0-9]
and add it to a string 'x' times where x is the number of digits
desired.  Something like:

def CustomRandom(NumberOfDigits = 95):
myDigits = NumberOfDigits   #if you want some sort of default use this
line, not the next
myDigits = raw_input("How many digits?\n>>> ")
myString = ""
for x in range(myDigits):
    random_num = <Create a random number by some method here>
    myString += random_num
<Cast myString into an L/int, maybe do some testing (maybe you want an
odd number or something, and return it>

You just have to make sure you use a good method to generate your
random digits.  I used something like this once to test some software
for stuff like buffer overflow problems.  It was relatively easy once
I got started.  Later.





Uwe Schmitt <uwe at rocksport.de> wrote in message news:<a7nrvd$7sbdt$2 at hades.rz.uni-sb.de>...
> FREDRIK HULDTGREN <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> wrote:
> | I want to generate random numbers, very large random numbers. If I use
> | randrange() I get an out of bounds error since it only supports numbers
> | up to (2**31)-1. However, I can use uniform(), but then I get the number
> | returned in 7.9655120654553743e+018 or something simaler, and I would
> | rather have it in a "L" format(796551206545537430183218312890381031L).
> | How do I do this?
>  
> | thanx
> | /Fredrik
> 
> You could generate two random numbers and clue them together to
> a longer number.
> 
> there is a mp (multip precision) library at http://gmpy.sourceforge.net
> 
> Greetings, Uwe


From ozren_lasic at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  5 21:43:20 2002
From: ozren_lasic at yahoo.com (Ozren Lasic)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 18:43:20 -0800
Subject: Why KeyError ???
Message-ID: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com>

Why KeyError ???.

Microsoft(R) Windows NT(TM)
(C) Copyright 1985-1996 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>python -S
Python 2.1.2 (#31, Jan 15 2002, 17:28:11) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.setdefaultencoding("cp1250")
>>> a = "\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7" # Croatian characters
>>> b = unicode(a)
>>> b
u'\xe7\u0110\u017a\u2020\xa7'
>>> c = {}
>>> c[a] = 1
>>> c[b]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
KeyError: &#353;&#273;&#269;&#263;&#382;
>>> a == b
1

Thanks !!!


From rloisel at helicon.net  Wed Mar 20 17:03:16 2002
From: rloisel at helicon.net (Rodney Loisel)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:03:16 -0500
Subject: error:"_imaging C module is not installed"
References: <3C989278.9189857C@helicon.net> <r65m8.26433$n4.5178537@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3C990724.E6DFDF53@helicon.net>


Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Rodney Loisel wrote:
>
> > Have 2 files (_imaging.pyd and _imagingtk.pyd) which I assume are the
> > C imagaging modules and have put copies of them in all the directories
> > that they might be accessed in
>
> for some more clues, try this:
>
> c:> python -v
> Python 2.2.1c1 ...
> >>> import _imaging
>
> and see what happens.
>
> </F>

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>python -v
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\site.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\site.py
import site # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\site.pyc
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\os.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\os.py
import os # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\os.pyc
import nt # builtin
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\ntpath.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\ntpath.py
import ntpath # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\ntpath.pyc
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\stat.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\stat.py
import stat # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\stat.pyc
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\UserDict.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\UserDict.py
import UserDict # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\UserDict.pyc
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\copy_reg.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\copy_reg.py
import copy_reg # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\copy_reg.pyc
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\types.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\types.py
import types # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\types.pyc
# C:\PYTHON22\lib\__future__.pyc matches C:\PYTHON22\lib\__future__.py
import __future__ # precompiled from C:\PYTHON22\lib\__future__.pyc
Python 2.2.1c1 (#32, Mar 18 2002, 13:23:09) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

>>> import _imaging
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files needed to run this
application cannot be found.
>>>

rod loisel



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 15:01:15 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:01:15 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA3768B.32BB6AC9@ccvcorp.com>


phil hunt wrote:

> IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works
> correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
>
> IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.

I disagree.  I'm just as happy that Python doesn't try to guess what would be a
suitable "default" value for non-existent keys.  It seems to me to be entirely
consistent with the philosophy of "explicit is better than implicit".  Why
presume that somedict[key] should default to 0, instead of to an empty string,
or to None, or to [], or...  ???

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From timr at probo.com  Sun Mar 10 02:15:37 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:15:37 -0800
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com>

morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton) wrote:

>Ok, I see how this works. 
>
>'<string1> in <string2>' would always returns false; as the elements
>of a <string2> are all characters you can never find <string1> amongst
>them (unless its a string of length 1).
>
>Its counter-intuitive for someone playing with strings as strings
>rather than as sequences of characters, however.

Many things that are "intuitive" are also wrong.

>'c' in 'the quick brown fox'     -> 1
>'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'   -> 1 (instead of TypeError)
>
>Is there any circumstance where youd expect (or want) the later not to
>work? I expected and wanted it to work (but instead got an error), its
>quite a clear and unambiguous expression (for strings only).

It would be a clear and unambiguous expression _if_ the "in" operator was a
substring search operator, but it is not.  It is a set membership operator.
It works EXACTLY the same way on all sequence types: the right-hand operand
is a sequence, and the left-hand operand is something that can be an
element of that sequence type.  You are suggesting an unorthogonal change
just because it is easier to type than:

   'the quick brown fox'.find('fox')

No.  That is NOT a good reason to change a language in an inconsistent way.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Mon Mar  4 20:48:21 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:48:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
Message-ID: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Is HP-UX 10.2 deprecated for more recent versions of Python?

There is at least one problem with the Python 2.2 ./configure for HP-UX
10.2 (see below).  And when the problem is patched, the resulting "python"
executable still doesn't pass "make test".  On the other hand, when the
system is built and tested on HP-UX 11 (even without the patch), everything
is fine.


Greg


PS: Here's the problem with the Python 2.2 ./configure for HP-UX 10.2.  To
determine if _POSIX_THREADS is defined in unistd.h, it runs the C
preprocessor on a file with the contents:

#include <unistd.h>
     #ifdef _POSIX_THREADS
     yes
     #endif

Unfortunately, with the C preprocessor invocation used by ./configure, the
indented #ifdef is not recognized, which results in the #ifdef construct
being mindlessly echoed, which is erroneously interpreted as the answer
"yes".  This causes _POSIX_THREADS to not be defined in pyconfig.h,
resulting in a bunch of undefined thread-related functions at link time.

When I removed the indentation from the above #ifdef construct, the "make"
of the executable was successful.  Unfortunately, "make test" did not pass.


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar  6 17:25:02 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:25:02 -0000
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <15494.34706.724985.628479@beluga.mojam.com> <mailman.1015449792.658.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8d5q4.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:21:35 -0800 (PST), Sean 'Shaleh' Perry
<shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
> help release more python modules so perl mongers will quite wagging CPAN in
> front of our faces.

    Quality over Quantity.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From a.martin at perfectwww.de  Mon Mar 11 17:47:07 2002
From: a.martin at perfectwww.de (Andreas Martin)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 14:47:07 -0800
Subject: Ho to use a regular expression group reference as hash key
Message-ID: <f2dbb0ed.0203111447.31eddd81@posting.google.com>

Hallo !

I'm a Python newbie and I have the following problem:

A hash person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}

and I would like to do a substitution with regular expression (an easy
example)
like this:

pat = re.compile(r'(entry1)')
t = pat.sub(person[\1],"something...entry1...something")

I would like to substitute the "entry1" string by the respective hash
element with the group reference \1 as hash key, that is to say
t="something...value1...something".

Similar in Perl:

s/(entry1)/%person($1)/

I hope my problem is understandable.
Thanks


From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Mon Mar 11 12:46:10 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:46:10 +0100
Subject: lambda question
References: <mailman.1015866267.21439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6iqh3$eipr4$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

lambda questionBoth work on my computer:

PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> def exe1(f,list):
...  return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
...
>>> f='x**3+2*x'
>>> list=[0,1,2,0]
>>> map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
[0, 3, 12, 0]
>>> exe1(f,list)
[0, 3, 12, 0]
>>>

If you give us the kind of error, problem hou have, you will help us to help
you.
TIA ;-)

"Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce" <calves at coelce.com.br> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015866267.21439.python-list at python.org...
Hi all,
Look at the two codes below
first code:
        f='x**3+2*x'
        list=[0,1,2,0]
        map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
second code:
        def exe1(f,list):
                return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
Can someone explain to me why the first code works while second doesn't.
Carlos Alberto
COELCE/DPRON-Departamento de Projetos e Obras Norte
Fone: 677- 2228
e-mail: calves at coelce.com.br
\|||/
(o o)
--ooo0-(_)-0ooo--




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar  6 21:14:06 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:14:06 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <3C861BEB.60701@destiny.com> <20020306135242.GB10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net> <mailman.1015434552.21827.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86CCEE.49E68592@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Andy Gimblett wrote:
> 
> I've just seen PEP 212 which contains this very proposal...

I've just looked at this PEP. Near the bottom
it says:

  Implementations

    For all three solutions some more or less rough patches exist
    as patches at SourceForge:
    ...
    All of them have been pronounced on and rejected by the BDFL.

Does that mean the whole idea has been rejected,
or just those particular implementations?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From jadestar at idiom.com  Thu Mar 14 20:50:55 2002
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 01:50:55 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com> <a5sb2n$f2j$1@news.idiom.com> <gherman-8DACFF.16414204032002@news.t-online.com> <e81be8b2.0203041203.42895122@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6rk1v$oac$1@news.idiom.com>

Dean Goodmanson <ponderor at lycos.com> wrote:

>> I wonder how much interest there would be in a revival?

>> Dinu

> YES!  
> I've found Python to be an excellent learning environment for personal
> development in software engineering and computer science.

> Especially since the advent of 
> href="http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIPython"
> Bruce Eckel's _Thinking in Python_ 

> and 
> http://vig.pearsoned.com/store/product/0,,store-562_banner-0_isbn-0130409561,00.html"
> Thomas Christopher's _Python Programming Patterns_ 

> Best Regards, 
> Dean

 Christopher's book has almost nothing to do with "Patterns."  While the 
 "patterns" community is somewhat vague about the definition of "design patterns"
 Christopher employs a definition that's so nebulous as to be completely 
 meaningless?  It's sort of like saying "Chair: anything that could be sat upon,
 and the act of sitting, standing, or being, or anyone that sits, stands or 
 is"  (as in the chair of the meeting sat on the lawn, which was her chair).

 It's sort of like that, except that Mr. Christopher isn't nearly so clear
 or definitive on the topic of patterns.

 In a twenty chapter book he devotes one specifically to patterns.  He lists
 twenty patterns that roughly correspond to most of the GoF patterns; but he
 doesn't ennumerate them so the reader who is familiar with the seminal GoF
 volume is left to wonder which three GoF design patterns were silently omitted,
 or to wonder if some were merged in some way.  Mr. Christopher doesn't describe
 alternatives or controversies in the patterns (such as Martelli's "Borg" vs. the
 GoF "Singleton")

 However, the worst failing of this book is that it doesn't include cogent code 
 examples.  It seems to be floor clippings from scripts or small programs that
 he's used in his projects.  The points under discussion in the running text are
 not isolated or highlighted in the code listings and the examples have little 
 pedegogical value.  

 One of his examples implements a priority queue by treating a list as a "heap" 
 (his term); his example takes over 50 lines of code and he doesn't clearly show 
 sample usage of this class.  After awhile I abandonned my pondering of his code 
 and wrote my own from scratch (as a dictionary of queues with a list of the 
 keys to sort into priority order).  I won't argue that mine code was better
 than his (since I didn't understand his code and I didn't have a clear API to
 emulate).  However my code only took about 25 lines to implement, allowed me
 to have arbitrary priority designations (integers, reals, letters, anything
 sequence that was comparable and "sortable") and should have been pretty 
 fast and lightweight (though I didn't rigorously profile it).  The API I 
 offered for mine was a superset of what I saw in his, adding items to a queue
 automatically created new queues as necessary (or could optionally raise an 
 exception if one set an instance flag); empty queues are automatically removed
 from the dictionary and keylists; call ".next()" (with no specific priority)
 gets the first item in the "highest priority" queue); "highest priority" could
 be set at instantiation --- increasing or reverse sort/lexical order; etc.

 (The point is that his code example was confusing and long; and it would seem
 to be unnecessarily so if a mere student such as myself can produce something
 shorter, simpler and with roughly similar functionality.  If his example 
 offered some functional advantage that I could not discern, it suggests that
 it was not a good example or that it lacked supporting exposition in the 
 accompanying text).

 In short I disliked this book.  None of the code examples even approached the
 claim of "enterprise ready" that was proudly touted on the cover.  These were
 examples of "programming in the small" rather than "in the large."

 (It did have one saving grace: the chapter or so on threading was clear and 
 concise.  I can't assure you that it was either comprehensive or entirely 
 correct --- but it was a very good introduction to concurrency problems and to
 Python's elegant and simple threading support). 

 


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar  7 08:16:13 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:16:13 -0800
Subject: time date math problem
References: <a67h6t$c6ee2$1@ID-79019.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a67pi3$ccomd$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Felix Seeger
> Hi
> 
> What I want:
> 
> Date:
> 
> 20.03.2002
> 
> 20.05.2002 - 21.00.0000 = 30.04.2002
> 
> 

mxDateTime includes that and more.  Take a look at 
http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxDateTime.html

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Mon Mar  4 12:51:13 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:51:13 -0500
Subject: Can Python do this?
Message-ID: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Hello, Python newbie here.

Let's say I'd like to build a method name into a string variable (e.g.
"FuncCall" + "1" to attempt to call "FuncCall1").  Can I then call that
method by somehow having the interpreter evaluate the string variable into a
call to the desired method? (I know this is usually done in a language like
Prolog or Lisp but I'm hoping Python can do it too.)

If so, can you point me to a good article or example of such that would show
me the relevant Python syntax.

Thanks.





From ws at mystrobl.de  Sun Mar 10 16:59:33 2002
From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:59:33 +0100
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m@4ax.com> <slrna8nf4q.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <9okn8ucu390vhk8nfhvb98c3aqotm2dllu@4ax.com>

Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:05:24 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):

>I would think that for an isolated app, .so's would slow down
>load times.  With a statically linked program all you do is a
>single memmap() call (well, ignoring a few details).  With
>.so's you've actually got to resolve all of the symbols and do
>the linking step (not required for statically linked images).

Windows DLLs are already linked. 

Please have a look at

http://www.wd-mag.com/articles/2000/0012/0012b/0012b.htm

Or find "Rebasing Win32 DLLs: The Whole Story" by Ruediger R. Asche
on MSDN.

Two quotes from that article:

"All other things being equal, the size of the DLL does not matter;
that is, the costs for loading a small DLL and a large DLL are pretty
much equal. Thus, if possible, you should avoid writing a lot of small
DLLs and instead write fewer large DLLs if load time is an issue for
you. ..."

"The single biggest factor that slows down the loading of DLLs is the
location of the DLL. The documentation for LoadLibrary describes the
algorithm that the operating system uses for locating the DLL image; a
DLL located at the first search position (the current directory) loads
in typically 20 percent or less of the time as the same DLL located
deep down in the path loads. ..."

-- 
Thank you for observing all safety precautions


From jeffbi at jetsoft.com  Thu Mar 21 12:39:52 2002
From: jeffbi at jetsoft.com (Jeff Bienstadt)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:39:52 -0800
Subject: IntSpan?
References: <3c97c886@news.nwlink.com> <3C99F049.5A78B149@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <3c9a1ae9$1@news.nwlink.com>

"Neal Norwitz" <neal at metaslash.com> wrote in message
news:3C99F049.5A78B149 at metaslash.com...
> Jeff Bienstadt wrote:
> >
> > Does there exist for Python something akin to the Set::IntSpan module
for
> > Perl?
> >
> > I'm looking for something that inteligently handles and manipulates
spans
> > of integers, such as:
> >    2-356,456,458-500
>
> I'm not familiar with IntSpan, but have you looked at the builtin range()?
> >>> print range.__doc__
> range([start,] stop[, step]) -> list of integers
>
> Return a list containing an arithmetic progression of integers.
> range(i, j) returns [i, i+1, i+2, ..., j-1]; start (!) defaults to 0.
> When step is given, it specifies the increment (or decrement).
> For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3].  The end point is omitted!
> These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements.
>
>
> range(2, 356)
> range(458, 500)
>
> or if you want the list above to be all together:
>
> range(2, 356) + [456] + range(458, 500)
>
> There aren't sets in python, but you can use a dictionary to emulate
> sets.  To create an intset with a dictionary:
>
> intset = {}
> for i in range(2, 356) + [456] + range(458, 500):
> intset[i] = 1
>
> print intset.has_key(55), intset.has_key(457)
> print intset.keys()
>
> I'm sure there are set implementations on ASPN.
>
> HTH,
> Neal

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I knew about range, but that's not quite what I'm looking for.

Using range to create the full list of integers seems prohibitively
expensive --- spans in the range 1-400000 are not at all out of line.

I'm envisioning a class that stores (for example) a list of tuples and/or
integers
to express each portion of the span, such as
    [(2,356), 456, (458,500)]

Then, the class might be asked to insert the value 457 into the
span, which would then result in a "merging" of the items in the
internal list, such as:
    [(2,356), (456, 500)]

Other operations (removing a value or a sub-span, merging another
span, etc.) would be useful as well.

I can see from your reply how range could be useful in the
implementation, for creating temporary lists of values to work
with but again, since the spans could be quite long, this
seems expensive.

I'm sure that I can implement something like this myself, but
I was hoping that such a thing already existed, because a) I would
prefer to not have to re-invent the wheel, and b) existing code
would almost certainly be better that anything I could write given
my current (week-old!) knowledge of Python.

(Also, the fact that the Perl module I mentioned uses Set is not
really important, it just came up while I was searching --- further
searching also turned up an Array::IntSpan Perl module.  I'm not
a Perl guy at all, and attempting to translate code from a language
that I don't know at all into one that I am just learning strikes me
as painful :-> )

If I can't find anything that already does what I'm looking for, I'll go
ahead and tackle it myself.

Again, thanks for your reply.

---jkb





From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 21:30:02 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 02:30:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEBJDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com> <mailman.1016000422.17645.python-list@python.org> <1pgu8u4nqjj8hbghv20s9osn9721uhlevg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrna92n5c.4gr.martinkaufmann@bardeen.phys.canterbury.ac.nz>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:21:43 +1300, Martin Kaufmann
<martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:13:50 -0600, "Jason Orendorff"
> <jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:
> 
>>Keep in mind, though, that the code I wrote creates a huge 2D array
>>when it is presented with largeish 1D arrays as arguments.
>>
>>So if s_vector is 10000 elements and r_vector is 10000 elements,
>>then a 800-MB array is created.  If you've got the RAM, this is
>>okay; otherwise you're in trouble.
> 
> The machine I'm using for my calculations has 2 GB of memory. And the
> vectors probably have only about n00-n000 entries.

Well, unfortunately I have to add that my estimate was too low. For
smaller clusters the numeric solution runs fine and is fast, but
for clusters over 1000 atoms it crashes ("MemoryError: can't
allocate memory for array").

I also found out that my colleague is able to run his C program
(containing similar calculations) about 1'000'000 in 10 hours.  He
does need that many cycles for Reverse Monte Carlo simulations. As
I will probably have to do similar simulations in the future I
guess I have to switch to C completely.

Regards,

Martin


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Thu Mar 28 15:24:27 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:24:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ConfigParser -> Section name through Option value
In-Reply-To: <3CA375B1.9070802@flexis.de>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020328122427.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 28-Mar-2002 domi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> can somebody help me with this ConfigParser (ini-file) problem:
> Is it possible to get a Section name through an Option value 
> (ConfigParser), e.g.:
> 
> [foo]
> name = python
> ...
> 
> how can I get the section name 'foo' through the option value 'python'?
> Any idea???
> 

doesn't look possible without touching the classes internal data structures. 
The file format is just not meant to be used in this way.

You also seem confused over the term option and section.  'section' refers to
'foo' in your example.  'name' is an option whose value is 'python'.



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Fri Mar 22 13:36:48 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:36:48 -0300
Subject: Python & IRC
In-Reply-To: <20020321043439.GA2043@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020321043439.GA2043@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <20020322153648.A11825@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> xchat's Python support sucks. They even admit it in the docs.

I've rewritten it from the ground. This new version has full
thread support, output directly into XChat window, python console
to play around, a more pythonic API, etc.

It will probably be included in XChat 2.0+.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar  2 00:12:13 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 06:12:13 +0100
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> wrote:

> What you are asking everyone to agree with is:
>         5 = [0,1,2,3,4]

No he isn't:)  He explicitly says he doesn't think of sequences at all.

...
> If you were to restate the above as:
>        f(5)=[0,1,2,3,4]
> Then, I believe, that you wouldn't have any problem convincing a large
> majority that it is possible for f() to produce such an output.  That being

And this is precisly what he's proposing, f is called iter in his
case.  He comes from the camp that sees everything as an object, so
numbers are objects to.  Hence integers know to do things, like
adding, subtracting, and ... counting!  Three knows how to count from
zero upto but not including three.  If you accept this, then the
discussion is not whether integers are sequences, but whether it's
natural to stretch Python's `for' construct to mean `count' or `over
its preceding numbers' in case of an integer.  Like the `for'
construct recently got stretched to mean `over all lines' and `over
its keys' for text-files and dictionaries.  Admitted in those cases it
still was a clear `iterate over', but the what was debatable.


> said, I would find that the argument favors the use of range/xrange over the
> concept of iterable integers.

I'm still concerned how it releates to `programming for everybody',
as that goal is a sure measure to keep Python lean and simple.

-- 
groetjes, carel


From cfelling at iae.nl  Fri Mar  1 16:54:11 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 22:54:11 +0100
Subject: __abs(self)__?
References: <f3Qf8.2391$26.139172@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a5ota3$80d$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Mike Carifio <carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com> wrote:
> I'm reading about special method names. __abs__(self), which maps to the
> abs() method seems unneccessary(?).
> So:

> class ExampleNumber:
>     def __init__(self, initializer):
>         self.value = initializer
>     def __abs__(self):
>         return abs(self.value)

>>>> x = ExampleNumber(-1)
>>>> x.abs()
> 1

strange, you haven't defined a method `abs' for `ExampleNumber's!
I would expect:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: ExampleNumber instance has no attribute 'abs'
>>>

unless you typed:

 >>> abs(x)

in which case x.__abs__() is called under the hoods.

> abs is a builtin function, so why do I need a special name for a function?
> I'm missing something...

many builtins work on instances of user defined classes by expecting
a special named method (those methods names are easily recognizable
due to the leading and trailing double underscores)

So you have a generic builtin fucntion abs, you use it on integers and
homebrew number classes alike, `abs(instance)' and all works as it should.


-- 
groetjes, carel


From Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com  Mon Mar 18 13:42:13 2002
From: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com (Lindstrom Greg - glinds)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:42:13 -0600
Subject: py2exe and Tkinter
Message-ID: <ABEE81BE08ADD311B6A1009027DE908D0BD88188@conmsx03.conway.acxiom.com>

Please excuse me if this is not the correct forum, and gently point me to
the correct list.

I am attempting to create a standalone application that has a GUI generated
with Tkinter.  I have a myfile.exe that was generated from py2exe, but when
I try to execute it (both by double clicking and trying to launch it from a
DOS command line) I get nothing.  Do I need to do anything "special" to my
all to work?

I'm on Windows 2000 "Professional" using Python 2.2.

Thanks!
--greg



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From stefan.heimann at web.de  Wed Mar  6 04:39:24 2002
From: stefan.heimann at web.de (Stefan Heimann)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 09:39:24 GMT
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from popen
Message-ID: <slrna8bou9.1sd.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>

Hi!

I want to launch an external process and have stdout and stderr
redirected to one output stream, something like

f = os.popen('cvs status 2>&1')

does the right thing, but does not work on all platforms.

If I write

pin, pout, perr = os.popen3('cvs status')

I get the output of stderr and stdout but not in the right order.

I tried also

sys.stderr = sys.stdout
f = os.popen('cvs status')
f.read()

but still I get only the output from stdout (what cvs outputs on
stderr is written directly to the console).

Any help would b great!

Thanks and bye
  Stefan


From kfarmer at thuban.org  Mon Mar 18 01:23:28 2002
From: kfarmer at thuban.org (Keith Farmer)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:23:28 GMT
Subject: Windows Scripting Component weirdness
Message-ID: <AJfl8.17104$WX3.4217286798@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

I modified \Python\Lib\site-packages\win32com\test\testPys.sct into
WSCTest.wsc, source below.  Running the testPyScriptlet.js code (also below)
seems to reveal that I am unable to set properties on the instantiated
object.  No errors are brought up -- the code just behaves as if I never
assigned new values to the properties.

What am I doing wrong, assuming that the WSH is behaving properly?

----------
Keith J. Farmer
kfarmer at thuban.org
http://www.thuban.org

##########

WSCTest.wsc:

<component>

<Registration
  Description="Test WSC/Python Object"
  ProgID="Thuban.Test.WSCTest"
  Version="1"
  ClassID="{2eeb6080-cd58-11d1-b81e-00a0240b2fef}">
</Registration>

<public>
  <property name=PyProp1>
    <get/>
    <put>
      <parameter name="newValue"/>
    </put>
  </property>
  <property name=PyProp2>
    <get/>
    <put>
      <parameter name="newValue"/>
    </put>
  </property>
  <method name=PyMethod1>
  </method>
  <method name=PyMethod2>
  </method>
</public>

<script language=python>

PyProp1 = "Foo"
PyProp2 = "Bar"

def get_PyProp1():
  return PyProp1

def put_PyProp1(newValue):
  PyProp1 = newValue

def get_PyProp2():
  return PyProp2

def put_PyProp2(newValue):
  PyProp2 = newValue

def PyMethod1():
  put_PyProp1('Test')
  return "PyMethod1 called: PyProp1 should be 'Test'"

def PyMethod2():
  return "PyMethod2 called"

</script>

</component>

##########

testPyScriptlet2.js:

function print(msg)
{
  WScript.Echo(msg) ;
}

var thisScriptEngine = ScriptEngine() ;

var majorVersion = ScriptEngineMajorVersion() ;
var minorVersion = ScriptEngineMinorVersion() ;
var buildVersion = ScriptEngineBuildVersion() ;
var m = "" ;

WScript.Echo(thisScriptEngine + " Version " + majorVersion + "." +
minorVersion + " Build " + buildVersion) ;

var scriptlet = new  ActiveXObject("Thuban.Test.WSCTest") ;

print("Getting PyProp1");
m = scriptlet.PyProp1 ;
print("PyProp1 = " + m) ;
m = scriptlet.PyProp2 ;
print("PyProp2 = " + m) ;

print("PyMethod1() = " + scriptlet.PyMethod1()) ;
m = scriptlet.PyProp1 ;
print("PyProp1 = " + m) ;

print("PyMethod2() = " + scriptlet.PyMethod2()) ;
scriptlet.PyProp2=scriptlet.PyMethod2() ;
m = scriptlet.PyProp2 ;
print("PyProp2 = " + m) ;





From ark at research.att.com  Mon Mar 11 10:10:25 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:10:25 GMT
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <yu998z8zywbi.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Eric> Hi all,
Eric> Found the following link on comp.lang.tcl. A bit long, but worth reading...

Eric> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3B40A4A7.6E39BD%40brad-aisa.com&rnum=1

I must say that the words of the license agreement do not seem to me
to have the effect that the article claims that they have.

Rather, it seems to me that Microsoft is saying that they will not
allow their products to be used in any way that might potentially
compel Microsoft to disclose any of their own source code.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 16:04:14 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:04:14 +0000
Subject: string copying
Message-ID: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying. I
suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'


PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32.Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond
(mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further
copyright information.
>>> s='abc'
>>> import copy
>>> s is copy.copy(s)
1
>>> s is copy.deepcopy(s)
1
>>> s is 'ab'+'c'
0
>>> 
-- 
Robin Becker


From oivvio at polite.se  Tue Mar 26 10:26:58 2002
From: oivvio at polite.se (oivvio at polite.se)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:26:58 +0100
Subject: Optimizations (was Re: reduce vs. for loop)
In-Reply-To: <a7q2nf$31b$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1017129288.16453.python-list@python.org> <a7q2nf$31b$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020326152658.GB907@matijek>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 10:05:19AM -0500, Aahz wrote:
> 
> def fact3(n):
>     mul = operator.mul
>     return reduce(mul, range(1L, n+1) )

faster than fact1 slower than fact2

> 
> "We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
> Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth
I know. I was just  curious :) 



-- 
oivvio polite
cell +46 (0)709 30 40 30 / phone +46 (0)8 669 64 18 / fax +46 (0)8 84 00 18
varvsgatan 10A / s-117 29 stockholm / sweden



From QnickQm at alum.mit.edu  Thu Mar  7 14:23:59 2002
From: QnickQm at alum.mit.edu (Nick Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:23:59 GMT
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
References: <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8ffoa.fgl.QnickQm@localhost.localdomain>

In article <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list at python.org>, 
                                                  stefan antoni wrote:
 [...]
> i want to write this basic code in python:
> http://www.google.de/search?q=3Dcache:Uugc3CH9SOQC:home.spektracom.de/ellri=
> ch/Ziegen.htm+ziegenproblem+basic+programm&hl=3Dde

Sadly, I don't know enough German to understand what is
going on, but given the original basic: 

      140 CLS : RANDOMIZE TIMER: PRINT
      150 PRINT "Von 2000 Wechseln waren ": PRINT
      160 FOR i = 1 TO 10
      170 r = 0: f = 0
      180 FOR j = 1 TO 2000
      190 a = INT(3 * RND + 1)
      200 w1 = INT(3 * RND + 1)
      210 m = INT(3 * RND + 1)
      220 IF (m = a) OR (m = w1) THEN 210
      230 w2 = 6 - m - w1
      240 IF w2 = a THEN r = r + 1
      250 IF w1 = a THEN f = f + 1
      260 NEXT j
      270 PRINT "richtig:"; r; "falsch:"; f
      280 NEXT i
      290 END

This is the most literal Python translation I could write:

import random

def rnd():
   ' returns one of (1,2,3) at random. '
   return int(3*random.random() + 1)

print "\nVon 2000 Wechseln waren \n"
for i in range(1,11):
    r = 0; f = 0
    for j in xrange(1,2001):
       a = rnd()
       w1 = rnd()
       m = rnd() 
       while m in (a, w1): 
          m = rnd()
       w2 = 6 - m - w1
       if w2 == a: r += 1
       if w1 == a: f += 1
    print "richtig: %s falsch: %s" % (r,f) 


I'm-guessing-the-last-pair-is-true-or-false-but-darned-if-I-know-
   what's-going-on-ly yrs,

-- 
 Nick Mathewson    <Q nick Q m at alum dot mit dot edu>
                      Remove Q's to respond.  No spam.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 31 12:56:52 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:56:52 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <a871lv$a3i$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEGAOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Ralph Corderoy, to Guido]
> What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
> elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of Boolean
> above.

Actually, he didn't.  True story:  we (PythonLabs) recently chatted with Jim
Fulton (Zope Corp's CTO, Guido's boss, and very long-time Python user) about
truth values in Python.  Jim declaimed that he always wished Python had a
function to convert Python's notion of true/false into an integer 1/0, and
suggested that "truth()" would be a good name for it.  He didn't realize
that operator.truth() was already there, and does exactly what he asked for.
I had a nagging suspicion, so dug into the CVS history then, and discovered
that operator.truth() was added for Python 1.4 -- and the code was
contributed by (tada!) Jim Fulton.  He did the work in the last millennium,
and simply forgot all about it then.

So if anyone on c.l.py ever feels silly about asking for a feature that's
already there, don't -- the people who *implement* features sometimes do the
same thing.

e.g.-i-still-wish-math.log(2L**100000)-didn't-blow-up-ly y'rs  - tim




From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Tue Mar 26 14:17:25 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:17:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa1i9v.jhl.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On 25 Mar 2002 15:19:59 -0500, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>In article <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com>,
>Huaiyu Zhu <huaiyu at us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>On 24 Mar 2002 00:14:00 +0100, Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>>>>>> To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
>>>>>> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.
>>>> 
>>>> Is the source for this available?
>>>
>>>It's in the CVS.
>>
>>Is it very new?  I've got a cvs copy a few weeks old, and it's not there.
>
><sigh>  Try http://ht2html.sf.net

Yes, it's there.  Thanks.  

I was confused because someone mentioned that it's in the Tools directory.
It's not in the python Tools directory.  Then someone said it's in CVS...

Huaiyu


From gminick at hacker.pl  Fri Mar 29 07:37:21 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:37:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa8nvo.4p.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.
Dnia Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:22:10 -0500, Steve Holden napisa?(a):
>While you correctly interpret netiquette, might it not have been more
>considerate to this list if you had *mailed* the OP rather than giving
>her/him a public dressing down which many others also had to read
>unnecessarily? Or is it OK to waste *my* time by chastising the OP publicly?
This note is automatically added to all my posts.
It wasn't directed to the OP of that thread, it's 
directed to anybody who don't know about it.
I haven't sent my post to attack OP's person, I answered 
his question (by giving an url to him).

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://hacker.pl/gminick/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) klub.chip.pl ]


From quinn at riyal.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sun Mar  3 13:34:21 2002
From: quinn at riyal.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 18:34:21 GMT
Subject: "pass by reference?"
References: <mailman.1014452738.24147.python-list@python.org> <1014509237.42236@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <slrna84r5c.urk.quinn@riyal.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 00:07:17 +0000 (UTC), Greg Weeks
<weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com> wrote:
>Tripp Scott (tripps81 at yahoo.com) wrote:
>:   a = -1
>:   make_abs(a)
>:   print a # = 1
>
>It is good to see that I'm not the only person who still uses "pass by
>reference" to mean that a function can rebind its argument variable.

I think my preferred terminology nowadys is that python is exclusively
pass by value.  With a note that, in C, a value is an area of memory, and
in python, lisp, etc., a value is a pointer to an area of memory.


From jschmitt at ati.com  Tue Mar  5 13:05:48 2002
From: jschmitt at ati.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:05:48 -0800 
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
Message-ID: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE6AD@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com>

My favourite C++ book is probably the Anderson & Anderson book: 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0135327482/qid%3D1015351143/ref%3Dsr%
5F11%5F0%5F1/002-4476754-6161625

If I were teaching again, this book would be high on my list of textbooks.
I'd love to get other people's opinion on it, since we're on the subject of
C++ books.  Caution: I might be biased because I met Paul Anderson and
thoroughly enjoyed talking to him.  

John


-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Roark [mailto:denro at NSPAMearthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:43 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...


First books in C++ are mostly a dissappointing lot, surprisingly so.  

[...]
-------------- next part --------------
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From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Mar 24 17:46:55 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 00:46:55 +0200
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <kuwuw1bn34.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c at dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>,
Boudewijn Rempt <boud at valdyas.org> writes:

| That's the received opinion indeed. It still leads to problems.
| I mean -- it's why you can kill a process, but not a thread. But in
| an agent system, every agent (presumably running a thread, although
| I've implemented systems where agents share threads, cooperative
| multi-tasking agents) is on its own, and shouldn't own objects
| or locks.

maybe forking separate processes won't take much more memory than
threads in that case, if they don't change memory pages inherited from
the parent.

  -- erno


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar 31 23:07:16 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 1 Apr 2002 04:07:16 GMT
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>        <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>        <3C9FAF96.5DE9A0@bgb-consulting.com>  <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa1gb9.87e.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <a81584$2gr2$1@news.idiom.com> <slrnaaf8bk.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <a88mdk$2pcv$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <slrnaaf8bk.ok0.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no>, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>In article <a81584$2gr2$1 at news.idiom.com>, Jim Dennis wrote:
>>In article <slrnaa1gb9.87e.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no>, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>>>In article <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list at python.org>, Skip

>>>Montanaro wrote:
>>>> Don>   Are there any decent (finished/tested) Jabber libraries for Python?

>>>>Don't know what its status is, but there is jabberpy:
>>>> http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/
>>> It's LGPL, which may make it unsuitable for some projects (like the
>>> standard Python library). But it seems to support the basic protocol.
>> Why would LGPL be allergic to the Python License?
> I don't think it is, but AFAIK you couldn't include GPL or LGPL
> software in the Python standard library, for instance. (But then
> again, if that were an issue, the authors would probably donate the
> code to the PSF anyway...)

 IANAL, but:

 I thought that PSF and Guido came up with a GPL compatible license.
 Since I'm not releasing any code that mixes GPL and Python code
 I haven't scrutinized the licenses in detail.  So I don't know which
 versions of Python are covered by GPL compatible licenses, nor am I
 sure that the two licenses *are* actually compatible.

 However, it seems that the LGPL should be freely linkable even to 
 proprietary or other non-GPL code.  I was under the impression that
 this was the whole point of the *L*GPL.



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Mar 29 10:21:45 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:21:45 -0500
Subject: vwait in Python?
References: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis> <mailman.1017331196.5311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA48689.402@wi.mit.edu>

Ken Guest wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 11:37, Ken Guest wrote:
> 
>>Anybody know if there's an equivalent to TCL's vwait keyword in Python?
> 
> 
> So is there no way, short of a 2 line while statement, to have code
> hang around until the value of some variable has been changed?

You can always create a function to do this (see below) and create a one 
liner.

> 
> I have tried using variations of the simple while statement, but they
> only result in the application hanging (going into an infinite loop
> no doubt).
> 
> 
> k.
> 

Here is an encapsulated vwait function.  I can't say I recommend this as 
I far prefer the observer pattern described before, but here you go :)

from Tkinter import *
import time

def vwait(root, var, timeout=0.1):
     """(master, var, timeout=0.1)->given a tk master and an observable
     variable
     i.e. var.get() returns a value
     wait for the variable to change.

     WARNING timeout defaults to subsecond precision, might not be
             available on all systems.

     WARNING vwait can only be called after the mainloop has been
             started. See test example below
     """
     start = var.get()
     while 1:
         root.update()
         time.sleep(timeout)
         if var.get() != start:
             break

if __name__ == "__main__":
     def go():
         """function that is called after mainloop is started.
         uses vwait to wait for a variable change"""
         var = IntVar()
         top = Toplevel()
         button = Checkbutton(top, text="Click ME", var=var)
         button.pack()
         label = Label(top, text="Vwait Starting")
         label.pack()
         # wait for var to change
         vwait(top, var)
         # once var is changed alter the label
         label.configure(text="Vwait done")


     root = Tk()
     button = Button(root, text="Start", command=go)
     button.pack()
     mainloop()





From aahz at panix.com  Mon Mar  4 12:09:21 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 09:09:21 -0800
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com>
Message-ID: <a609o1$108$1@panix2.panix.com>

[Frederic, please make sure to keep attributions, even for your own
quotes.  This makes it easier to hold discussion among multiple people.]

In article <3C838150.97A86F52 at arakne.com>,
Frederic Giacometti  <frederic.giacometti at arakne.com> wrote:
>Aahz Maruch wrote:
>>Frederic:
>>>
>>>Just reverse the paradigm: have the python VM run in a single thread,
>>>using stackless microthreads for python multithreading, and run the C
>>>calls in a pool of threads.  This way: no lock is needed, since only
>>>one thread runs the VM, with the help of microthreads, and C calls run
>>>in other threads.
>>
>> This doesn't make any sense unless you assume OS-level threads, and I
>> thought part of the point of Stackless was to avoid requiring OS-level
>> threads.
>
>More precisely, the point of stackless is to dispense from OS threads
>(and Python lock) overheads for running threaded Python bytecode.
>However, OS threads are still required to take charge of calls to
>blocking C function (usually from external C libraries) that one want
>to run asynchronously to the PVM; there is no turn around to this.

Sure there is: just use Python's standard threading capabilities and
release the Global Interpreter Lock, just like you do now.  I will grant
that it's not the most convenient thing in the world, and maybe we'll
want to fix this in the future, but I think that getting Stackless done
and squared away is more important than resolving this in the cleanest
possible fasion.

practicality-beats-purity-ly y'rs
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From Thilo.Ernst at dlr.de  Mon Mar  4 12:40:25 2002
From: Thilo.Ernst at dlr.de (Thilo Ernst)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:40:25 +0100
Subject: need to safely spawn subshells from multithreaded server - how?
Message-ID: <3C83B189.999E2BA6@dlr.de>

Hello c.l.py,

I'm building something best described as a  'job dispatcher' .  This program  is intended as a
long-running process which takes requests via an easy-to-talk-to remote object protocol such
as XML-RPC or PYRO  (the requests come from another Python interpreter process), and
according to these requests starts, stops and otherwise supervises lots of child processes.

The child processes will be Unix (platform for the whole thing is Linux/x86) command line
applications to be started in subshells.  As each child process will typically run a few seconds
or even minutes, and there will be lots of concurrent requests which should not block each other,
I want the dispatcher server to be multithreaded. This in principle is no problem - multithreading
is supported by available Python implementations  of  the protocols above. Using one of these,
the situation will be that the dispatcher server has a "main thread" listening for requests, and as
soon as a request  comes in it is handed over to a "handler thread" created for the purpose,
freeing the main thread to listen for further requests.

However after researching the web for similar problems/approaches I came to suspect I might
be in for unpleasant surprises with the above design. Python multithreading combined with
the spawning of child processes is said to be dangerous.  All popen()  variants, os.system(), and
pty.spawn() rely on  fork() which produces a full-blown clone of my  server process.  As long
as I  cannot make 100% sure  that only the intended thread  - the "handler thread" for the current
request- continues to run in the child process, it seems that I might end up with two competing server
threads (one in parent, one in child).

Now my questions. Execuitve summary: "can it be done, and how?"

1. Did I get something utterly wrong here? Is the danger of getting two interfering server threads
     a real one at all? This isn't the type of question a quick prototype reliably answers. Interestingly,
     from  Zope (which is a multithreaded server, too),  I've been fork()ing subshells happily and ignorantly
     for years already with no apparent problems, and so will other people have done. But I'd rather
     be on the safe side. I don't want inexplicable failures due to rare race conditions or something
     similar later on.

2. Can I enforce (from Python) that only the handler thread continues to run in the child process?
    My current idea is to somehow block the server main thread right before  the fork(), and
    unblock it  immediately afterwards - but only in the parent process. Would that be safe? And
    could I perhaps reach that goal without having to substantially change the implementation
    of my chosen remote object system?

3. Any other ideas? Is there any other, fork()-less way to spawn a subshell (from Python, on Linux)?

The following Tim Peters quote (from <mailman.1001479048.15356.python-list at python.org>)
doesn't sound too encouraging...

> The Python C API defines a PyOS_AfterFork() function, which platforms can
> fill with whatever crud they need to do after a fork.  On all platforms to
> date, it calls (in both parent and child) PyEval_ReInitThreads(), and resets
> the Python signal module's notion of what the current pid is.  However,
> mixing threads with fork is a frigging mess on the best of platforms, and it
> generally takes a bona fide platform expert to guess what happens in the end

Any hints much appreciated.

Best regards, Thilo Ernst




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 19:34:52 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:34:52 -0800
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <slrna9htdq.5dl.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9A7C2C.E93DA440@ccvcorp.com>


phil hunt wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:52:35 +0000 (UTC), Greg Weeks <weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com> wrote:
> >
> >1.  I use "me" instead of "self" in method definitions.
>
> I think it's a good idea, if a bit unconventional.

In what way is "me" preferable to "self", other than being two characters shorter?  And is
saving those two characters really such a big deal?


> IMO the requirement to say self everywhere in methods is the worst
> feature of python.

What "requirement"?  It's explicitly allowed to call the first parameter of a method whatever
you like -- self, me, JimBob, MyNiftyVariablePointingToTheObjectThisMethodIsBeingCalledOn...
it's just convention to call it self, because when you're talking about code with someone
else, everyone knows what you mean when you say self.

If you're referring to the need to refer to instance attributes as 'self.foo' instead of just
'foo' -- Ugh.  The misfeature of allowing implicit attribute references is one of the most
confusing things about C++.  There's a reason that most C++ member variables started taking
on 'm_' prefixes -- because otherwise you can't tell what's a member and what isn't, and it
becomes impossible to keep track of whether a given code segment calculates a temporary value
or changes the object's state in a more permanent fashion.  When I was trying to grok MFC,
long ago, every time I looked at example code I had to spend hours flipping around in the
class reference, trying to guess *where* a given variable or method came from... Explicit is
better than implicit, and this particular example is one of the clearest proofs of *why* that
is so.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Wed Mar 13 14:30:24 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:30:24 -0800
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
In-Reply-To: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net>
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net>
Message-ID: <200203131929.g2DJTiq25090@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

On March 13, 2002 10:37 am, jrc wrote:
> 'python script.py'
>
> completely fails (syntax error).  

Please post your error and script (if its short). If you are getting a syntax 
error, it would seem Pyhon is running and then failing on your script and 
hence generating a syntax error. 

Thats not Python's fault.
-- 
  Andy McKay



From bosahv at netscapenospam.net  Thu Mar 28 02:09:51 2002
From: bosahv at netscapenospam.net (Bo Vandenberg)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:09:51 GMT
Subject: Zope Install probs on Mandrake 8.2
References: <WGxo8.83$m12.69@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <pan.2002.03.28.08.11.15.814275.2239@nospam.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3lzo8.173$m12.137@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Can I install the python 2.2rc2 source right over the Mandrake 2.2?

"Petri Savolainen >" <<petri_savolainen at nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.03.28.08.11.15.814275.2239 at nospam.yahoo.com...
> Do you have Python development package / libraries installed?
>
> You need them to build Zope from source.
>
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:16:38 +0200, Bo Vandenberg wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to install Zope from source on a fresh install of Mandrake
> > 8.2. I'd appreciate it if anyone here has advice for this.
> >
> >
> > "python wo_pcgi.py" fails building the extension modules saying "cannot
> > stat `/usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile.pre.in': No such file or
> > directory.
> >
> > This is indead true.
> >
> > Is there something a beginner should do at this point?
> >
> > Zope claims to run on python 2.1 will it run on 2.2???
> >
> > Thanks in advance.




From jason at jorendorff.com  Sat Mar  9 21:35:06 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:35:06 -0600
Subject: should i learn it first ?
In-Reply-To: <ISti8.89159$aFN.65869@news1.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEEEODIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Qiang.JL wrote:
> Do you guys not agree to master C/C++, a large amount of time will be
> required (somewhere on the net i saw it's appro 3-4 years.  whew!!)
> In one i want to learn it but on the  other this time consuming 
> issue scare me .as the  bad tradeoff -- it's smarter to use a language
> that uses the machine's time less efficiently, but your time much
> more efficiently.
> 
> am i whining? , :-)

Yeah.  :)

Go get an account on a Linux box, buy "The C Programming Language"
by Kernighan and Ritchie, and get to work.  You can work your way
through it in a month or two.  It's more than worth your time.
If nothing else, you'll be more able to read all the excellent
existing books about programming that include examples in C.

Also, sometime next week, read this:
  http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/
You can work your way through it in an evening.  It might
be worth your time, too.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 20:08:32 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:08:32 +0000
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com> <slrna8nhe5.7t7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3y9h0x8cr.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8o0sg.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:21:08 -0500, Christopher Browne <cbbrowne at acm.org> wrote:
>In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) transmitted:
>> On 10 Mar 2002 10:15:06 -0800, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>>>In article <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
>>>phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
>>>>>C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
>>>>>that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
>>>>>Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
>>>>
>>>>I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python, 
>>>>e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems, 
>>>>run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.
>>>
>>>But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
>>>than C/Python?
>>
>> Any task for whiich OO is useful, which means essentially all
>> programs >5000 lines (and most smaller ones), will benefit from C++
>> over C.
>
>Would that include the implementation of runtime code for an
>at-the-bare-iron OS kernel to support:
> a) vtables, and
> b) memory management?
>
>Remember, when you're sitting at that level, you have no runtime
>support code, and so can make no use of:
> - Virtual functions
> - Constructors
> - Destructors
>
>I would tend to think that figuring out the usable subset of C++ would
>become painful enough to discourage its use.

Good point.



-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From wurmy at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 00:16:50 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:16:50 GMT
Subject: python, cvs, win32 -- slightly ot
References: <etco8.1685$d7.551829@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3CA15642.7FA3E117@earthlink.net>

dsavitsk wrote:
> 
> i have registered and had approved a project on sourceforge.  never having
> used cvs before, i am looking for some help on how to use cvs with python
> files on win2k.  any links on where to look?
> 
> project-to-be-anounced-as-as-soon-as-possible ly 'yrs

I use WinCVS:

  http://www.wincvs.org/

Then there's this page with lots of info on CVS:

  http://www.cvshome.org/

You might need Cygwin for ssh (although there are other ssh
alternatives out there):

  http://www.cygwin.com/

HTH,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 05:25:13 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:25:13 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org> <slrnaacg18.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m31ye1nieu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:38:00 -0500, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> >Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> >an int is int(b).
> 
> Will this work on old versions of python? I've just checked that it 
> works on 2.0, but what about 1.5.1 or 1.6?
> 
> I'd guess (b*1) would work on everything, however.

The way Guido meant this is really "turn a *bool* into an int". There
are no bools in 2.0, so I wonder what you've checked. If you want to
change an arbitrary object into 0/1, int() certainly won't work:

>>> int([])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: object can't be converted to int

To turn an arbitrary object into a bool, you could have used
operator.truth so far, since Python 1.4. To turn that into 0/1 pair,
you could write int(operator.truth(obj)). This will also work back to
Python 1.4, since truth already returns 0/1; passing that to int() was
always allowed.

Regards,
Martin



From shredwheat at attbi.com  Fri Mar 29 12:37:23 2002
From: shredwheat at attbi.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:37:23 GMT
Subject: python2.2 LESS docstring'able
Message-ID: <3CA43762.9010705@attbi.com>

I've got an extension object and a function to create the object.

MyObj()    # create new MyObj
MyObjType  # the type for MyObj

in pre-2.2 i can have a docstring for each of these. my question is now 
that i'm "combining" the type and the little constructor, what is the 
best way to merge the docstrings? i'd like my object to still have the 
docstring for that type. but i'd really like to be able to see the 
calling syntax for the constructor in docstrings as well?

so that's my little confusion. not the end of the world. i've just got 2 
nice docstrings here, and only a slot for one of them. does the 
PythonType structure need another slot? tp_new_doc? a docstring for the 
Type, and a docstring for instanced objects? hmm, well that still might 
not solve everything.

what's a humble extension writer to do? i suppose i could use a little 
#if magic and combine the docstrings when python 2.2 is being used. is 
that the only real solution?





From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Wed Mar 27 22:06:54 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:06:54 -0600
Subject: IDiscMaster interface
Message-ID: <009901c1d605$b8fc2f40$0101010a@local>

I have been investigating the IDiscMaster interface implemented
in Windows XP.  It appears to be a COM interface (I'm a Linux/Unix
type of guy and know very little about Windows internals), but I
can find no type library.  Has anyone else used this interface
(component, whatever) via Python?  I'd really like to be able
to burn CD's automatically for backup purposes.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net





From ffjhenon at club-internet.fr  Tue Mar 26 11:40:48 2002
From: ffjhenon at club-internet.fr (Fabien =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E9non?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:40:48 +0100
Subject: Tkinter -> spawn external cmd -> return stdout and stderr to back 
 Tkinter
Message-ID: <3CA0A490.4C88C20C@club-internet.fr>

I need some help for firing up an external program from Tkinter.

I am writing an editor for POV-RAY linux under using Tkinter.
The pov-ray scripts are edited in that editor and can be raytraced from
within.
When POV raytraces, it outputs the image being raytraced and the line
number being raytraced.
When the raytrace is over, it outputs to the console the stats( how long

the process was, number of objects,...), or the error if there is an
error in the script

I use 'spawnv' to fire up POV to start it as a new process. Which
command should I use to get interactive stdout and stderr back to my
Tkinter
application.(do you have any running examples of popen ? the doc is not
clear)
I also would like to be able to stop the raytrace when it is started.

I heard about subproc. I can't get to find it in ftp.python.org

Thanks for any help
Here is the code - still a bit messy
the problem is at line 340


8<------------------ cut here --------------------->8
#! /usr/bin/env python
import sys, os, string
from string import split
from os import spawnv, P_NOWAIT
from Tkinter import *
from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename, asksaveasfilename


# ajouter undo
# ajouter buffers pour multifen?tres
# ajouter close dans menu
# ajouter les 'insert' pov avec cascades
# ajouter chemin pour executable



class mainWin:
  def __init__(self,tkRoot):
    self.tkRoot=tkRoot
    self.createWidgets()
    return None


global params
global filename
plat=sys.platform




class App:

## ---------------------- Create GUI ----------------------

    def __init__(self, master):



## ---------------------- Mainframe ----------------------

        mframe = Frame(master)
        mframe.pack(expand=1, fill=BOTH)
        frame_input=Frame(mframe)


## ---------------------- Menu ----------------------

        menubar=Menu(frame_input)
        filemenu=Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)
        filemenu.add_command(label="New",command=self.clr)
        filemenu.add_command(label="Open",command=self.enter_text)
        filemenu.add_command(label="Close")
        filemenu.add_command(label="Save",command=self.save)
        filemenu.add_command(label="Save As",command=self.saveas)
        filemenu.add_separator()
        filemenu.add_command(label="Quit",command=sys.exit)
        menubar.add_cascade(label="File",menu=filemenu)

        editmenu=Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)
        editmenu.add_command(label="Cut")
        editmenu.add_command(label="Copy")
        editmenu.add_command(label="Paste")
        menubar.add_cascade(label="Edit",menu=editmenu)

        rendermenu=Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)
        rendermenu.add_command(label="Render", command=self.render)
        rendermenu.add_command(label="Options", command=self.render)
        menubar.add_cascade(label="Render",menu=rendermenu)

        insertmenu=Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)
        insertmenu.add_command(label="Animation", command=self.render)

#  CSG
        insertmenucsg=Menu(insertmenu,tearoff=0)
        insertmenucsg.add_cascade(label="difference",
command=self.render)
        insertmenucsg.add_cascade(label="intersection",
command=self.render)
        insertmenucsg.add_cascade(label="inverse", command=self.render)
        insertmenucsg.add_cascade(label="merge", command=self.render)
        insertmenucsg.add_cascade(label="union", command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_cascade(label="CSG Operations",
menu=insertmenucsg)




        insertmenu.add_command(label="Expressions", command=self.render)

        insertmenu.add_command(label="Headers", command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_command(label="Light sources",
command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_command(label="Misc directives",
command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_command(label="Ready made scenes",
command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_command(label="Shape modifiers",
command=self.render)

# SHAPES
        insertmenushape=Menu(insertmenu,tearoff=0)

insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="bicubic_patch",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="blob",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="box",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="cone",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="cubic",command=self.render)

insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="cylinder",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="disc",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="fractal",command=self.render)


insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="height_field",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="lathe",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="mesh",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="plane",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="polygon",command=self.render)


insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="polynomial",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="prims",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="quadric",command=self.render)


insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="smooth_triangle",command=self.render)

        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="sphere",command=self.render)

insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="superellipsoid",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="sor",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="text",command=self.render)
        insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="torus",command=self.render)

insertmenushape.add_cascade(label="triangle",command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_cascade(label="Shapes", menu=insertmenushape)


        insertmenu.add_command(label="Statements", command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_command(label="Standard colors",
command=self.render)




        insertmenupattern=Menu(insertmenu,tearoff=0)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="agate",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="average",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="boxed",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="bozo", command=self.render)

        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="brick",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="bumps",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="checker",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="crakcle",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="cylindrical",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="density_file",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="dents",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="gradient",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="granite",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="hexagon",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="leopard",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="mandel",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="marble",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="onion",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="planar",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="quilted",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="radial",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="ripples",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="spherical",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="spiral1",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="spiral2",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="spotted",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="waves",
command=self.render)
        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="wood", command=self.render)

        insertmenupattern.add_cascade(label="wrinkles",
command=self.render)
        insertmenu.add_cascade(label="Patterns",menu=insertmenupattern)



        insertmenufinish=Menu(insertmenu,tearoff=0)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="ambient",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="attenuation",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="brilliance",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="caustics",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="crand", command=self.render)

        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="diffuse",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="ior", command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="irid", command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="metallic",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="phong", command=self.render)

        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="phong_size",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="reflection",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="roughess",
command=self.render)
        insertmenufinish.add_cascade(label="specular",
command=self.render)

        insertmenu.add_cascade(label="Finish",menu=insertmenufinish)

        menubar.add_cascade(label="Insert",menu=insertmenu)

        root.config(menu=menubar)

## ---------------------- Buttons ----------------------

        frame_buttons=Frame(mframe)
        self.button_open = Button(frame_buttons, text="Open..",
fg="blue", command=self.enter_text)
# self.button_open = Button(frame_buttons, image="open.xpm",
command=self.enter_text)
        self.button_open.pack(side=LEFT)
        self.button_render = Button(frame_buttons, text="Render..",
fg="red", command=self.render)
        self.button_render.pack(side=LEFT)
        frame_buttons.pack(expand=0, fill=BOTH)



## ---------------------- Editor ----------------------

        self.text = Text(frame_input)

        self.yscroll_i = Scrollbar(frame_input,orient=VERTICAL,
command=self.text.yview)
        self.yscroll_i.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
        self.text['yscrollcommand']=self.yscroll_i.set

        self.text.pack(side=LEFT,expand=1, fill=BOTH)

        self.yscroll_i.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
        frame_input.pack(expand=1, fill=BOTH)

        bind_class=self.text.bind_class
        bind_class('UPD','<KeyPress>',self.keyPress)
        bind_class('UPD','<ButtonPress>',self.keyPress)
        bind_class('UPD','<Motion>',self.keyPress)
        bind_class('UPD','<ButtonRelease>',self.keyPress)

        oldtags = self.text.bindtags()
        self.text.bindtags(oldtags+('UPD',))


## ---------------------- Output ----------------------

 frame_output=Frame(mframe)
        self.text_out = Text(frame_output,state=NORMAL,height=6)
        self.text_out.pack(side=LEFT,expand=1, fill=BOTH)
        self.scroll = Scrollbar(frame_output,
command=self.text_out.yview)
        self.text_out.configure(yscrollcommand=self.scroll.set)
        self.scroll.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
        frame_output.pack(expand=0, fill=BOTH)


## ---------------------- Status Bar ----------------------


 frame_status_bar=Frame(mframe)
 self.parameters = Label(frame_status_bar,text="Parameters : ",
anchor="w",bg='gray70')
 self.parameters.pack(side='left')
 self.fill_params=Entry(frame_status_bar,bg='gray100')
 self.fill_params.insert(INSERT,"+w320 +h240 -f +dgt +p")
 self.fill_params.pack(side='left', expand=1, fill=BOTH)
        self.status_filename1 = Label(frame_status_bar,text="File :
",width=5, anchor="w",bg='gray70')
        self.status_filename1.pack(side=LEFT )
        self.status_filename2 =
Label(frame_status_bar,text="",width=20,relief=SUNKEN, anchor="w",
bg="gray90")
        self.status_filename2.pack(side=LEFT)



 self.status_line = Label(frame_status_bar,padx=1,
                                 relief=SUNKEN,bg="gray90",
                                 width=10,
                                 anchor="w",
#                                 textvariable=affi_Ligne
                                  text="1"
                                 )
        self.status_line.pack(side='right')
        self.status_linetext =
Label(frame_status_bar,padx=1,bg='gray70',
                                 width=7,
                                 anchor="w",
                                 text="Line : ")
        self.status_linetext.pack(side='right')


        frame_status_bar.pack(side=LEFT,expand=1, fill='x')


## ---------------------- Open file ----------------------

    def enter_text(self):
          filetypes = ( ( "Pov files","*.pov"), ( "Include
files","*.inc"), ( "All","*"))
          self.filename = askopenfilename(filetypes=filetypes)
          if self.filename:
  self.text.delete(1.0, END)
  fd = open(self.filename)
   for line in fd.readlines():
  if line.endswith("\r\n"):
   line = line[:-2] + "\n"
  self.text.insert(END, line)
   fd.close()

self.status_filename2.config(text=os.path.split(self.filename)[1])
          root.title("POV-RAY editor  |  "+self.filename+"  |")
          buf=self.text.get('1.0','end')
#   print buf



## ---------------------- Clear ----------------------

    def clr(self):
        self.text.delete(1.0, END)
        self.status_filename2.config(text="")
        root.title("POV-RAY editor")


## ---------------------- Save ----------------------

    def save(self, forPrt=None):
      try:
        script = self.text.get(1.0, END)
        if script:
          fd = open(self.filename, 'w')
          for line in string.split(script, '\n'):
            fd.write(line)
            fd.write('\n')
          fd.close
      except:
       self.saveas()



## ---------------------- Saveas ----------------------

    def saveas(self, forPrt=None):
        script = self.text.get(1.0, END)
        if script:
#          global filename
#          self.filename=".pov"
          filetypes = ( ( "Pov files","*.pov"), ( "Include
files","*.inc"), ( "All","*"))
          self.filename = file = asksaveasfilename(filetypes=filetypes)
          fd = open(self.filename, 'w')
          for line in string.split(script, '\n'):
                fd.write(line)
                fd.write('\n')
          fd.close

self.status_filename2.config(text=os.path.split(self.filename)[1])
          root.title("POV-RAY editor  |  "+self.filename+"  |")



## ---------------------- Render button ----------------------

    def render(self):
        global params
 params=self.fill_params.get()
 script = self.text.get(1.0, END)
        if script:
          fd = open(self.filename, 'w')
          for line in string.split(script, '\n'):
            fd.write(line)
            fd.write('\n')
          fd.close

        if plat=="linux-i386":
          app = '/usr/bin/x-povray'    # a remettre
          spawnv(P_NOWAIT, app , ('x-povray', "+i"+self.filename+"
"+params))  # a remettre
        if plat=="win32":
          app = 'c:\\image\\3d\\pov31\\bin\\pvengine'    # a remettre
          spawnv(P_NOWAIT, app , ('pvengine.exe', "+i"+self.filename+"
"+params))  # a remettre

#        appli = split(app)[1]
#  os.spawnl(os.P_NOWAIT, app , params)
#  os.popen3(app +' '+params)
#  os.system("dir" +params+" > foo.txt 2>foo.error.txt")

#        os.system("dir *.py" >"foo.txt")
# os.popen3(app +"+i"+self.filename+" "+params)  # a remettre


## ---------------------- Render keyboard ----------------------

    def render_kb(self,event):
         global params
        params=self.fill_params.get()
  app = r"C:\perso\bureautique\Microsoft Office\Office\excel.exe"
                appli = split(app)[1]
#  os.spawnl(os.P_NOWAIT, app , params)
#  os.system(app +' '+params)
#  os.system(app)
                spawnv(P_NOWAIT, app, (appli, params))


## ---------------------- Top-Level Command line button
----------------------

    def parameters_button(self):
      self.tl=Toplevel()
      self.lb=Label(self.tl, text="Render parameters:")
      self.cl=Entry(self.tl,width=40)
      self.ok=Button(self.tl, text="OK", fg="red",
command=self.get_parameters)
      self.ok.pack(side=BOTTOM)
      self.cl.pack(side=RIGHT)
      self.lb.pack()


      #self.stdout = sys.stdout

## ---------------------- Prints the current line number and contents
----------------------


#        line, col = string.split( self.iText.text.index( 'insert'),
'.')
#        self.linecolLabel.config( text="Line %s Col %s" % (line,col))
# self.status_line

    def lin(self):
        Ligne, column = string.split( self.text.index(INSERT),'.')
        self.status_line.config(text="%s" % (Ligne))




## ---------------------- Called when a key is pressed
----------------------

    def keyPress(self,event):
        self.lin()





root = Tk()




affi_Ligne=StringVar()
#params=StringVar()
larg = root.winfo_screenwidth()
haut = root.winfo_screenheight()
app = App(root)
#root.geometry("%dx%d+0+0" % (larg,haut))
root.title("POV-RAY editor")


root.mainloop()
8<------------------ cut here --------------------->8


From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Wed Mar 13 03:44:16 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:44:16 +0100
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C8E49ED.1C524CC1@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a6n3gs$fem19$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

I fully agree with Jeff : IMHO, it can only be a 'last chance' solution in
various situations (debug, plug-in development, test module...) but I advice
to never design an application from scratch on such an assumption or even
rely on that for business development.

B.

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C8E49ED.1C524CC1 at ccvcorp.com...
>
>
> Marco Herrn wrote:
>
> > [snip]
> > > ...  def sayNo(self):
> > > ...   caller = sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self']
> > this is the only line, that looks a bit ugly. It actually does the same
> > as when giving caller as parameter. So what can be a reason to implement
> > it this way? It looks much less readable to me. And I have to say I not
> > even understand it fully....
>
> Actually, it does *not* do the same as giving the caller as a parameter,
in
> general.  What this does, is that it gets the intepreter's stack frame in
which
> the current object was created.  In this case, that happens to be the
> Egg.__init__() frame.  It then searches this stack frame for a local name
> 'self';  if that name doesn't exist, this will throw an exception.  This
means
> that Spam can *only* be created from inside of another method which uses
the self
> convention;  you cannot create a Spam object globally or inside of a top
level
> function.  And, indeed, in the rare instances where a method uses some
name other
> than self to represent its bound instance, this will fail as well.  A
metaphor
> would be that, instead of simply being told who your parents are, you're
> searching through a phone book for a name that you *think* belongs to
them -- but
> you might have the name wrong, they might have an unlisted number, or they
might
> not even *be* in that phone book.  (Note also that even if it *does* work,
it's
> inappropriate to call the object found the "owner" or "caller" of the
current
> instance; it would be the *creator*, which is not necessarily the same
thing at
> all, especially when you consider object factories and such.)
>
> In short, this is black magic.  It might work, most of the time... but if
you
> turn your back on it, it's liable to blow up on you.  Use only with
caution, and
> only when you're *sure* that you know what you're asking for.  :)
>
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
>
>




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar 15 21:35:04 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:35:04 -0800
Subject: Shot in the Dark: Minimum-weight perfect matching algorithm
References: <pan.2002.03.15.19.52.32.366019.81993@snet.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-0100AC.18350415032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <pan.2002.03.15.19.52.32.366019.81993 at snet.net>,
 Paul Magwene <p.magwene at snet.net> wrote:

> Does anybody happen to have a Python implementation of a minimum-weight
> perfect matching algorithm?  Or a Python interface to one?
> 
> I'm aware of (some) of the literature on this topic, but as a non-computer
> scientist I'd rather not have to twist my mind around one of the Blossum
> algorithms.

I take it you need nonbipartite perfect matching?

Bipartite is much easier.  (I don't have Python even for that, but I do 
have some simple C code...)

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Tue Mar 26 18:22:57 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 23:22:57 GMT
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
References: <mailman.1017132816.23221.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7qvsh$2p36$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1017132816.23221.python-list at python.org>, 
  cedric_briner wrote:

> hi,
> I'm interesting to know which method of a class I have to define to
> list the __records of this class:

> class CRdb:
>	__fieldsName= []
>	__keyname= []
>	__records   = ['first','secnd','third']
>	__iRecord= 0

> because I would like to write something like:

> db=CRdb()
> for entry in db:
>	print entry

> and then get
> first
> secnd
> third

> please let me know any pointer refering this topic...or even better a
> quick solution ..

 Topics: read "What's new in Python 2.2" by A.M. Kuchling
 at: http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/index.html
 and pay particular attention to the discussion of "iterators."
 in section 3 
 
 (amusingly referred to by a URL referencing section 00040*; probably 
 an artifact of the editing process and the use of LaTeX2HTML):

 http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/index.html#SECTION000400000000000000000

 Meanwhile I wrote a long answer before I actually understood what
 you were asking.  The "quick solution" is all the way at the bottom.
 
 I was lead astray by the fact that your CRdb class here shows only
 some class members with no methods and no instance members (which
 would normally be initialized by an object's __init__() method.
 So I rambled on at great length about using class methods and
 properties to manage your class members (and a little bit about the
 effect of using __ prefixes on those member names, in any event).

> thanks. Briner

 You've created a class with a set of "class members" (as opposed
 to "instance members").  By using the __ precedents in these names
 you asked Python to "mangle" them for you as shown in this transcript
 from an interactive Python session:

 >>> class CRdb:
 ...     __fieldsName = []
 ...     __keyname = []
 ...     __records = [ 1, 2, 3, 4 ]
 ...     __Irecord = 0
 ...
 >>> CRdb.__dict__
   {'_CRdb__records': [1, 2, 3, 4], '__module__': '__main__',
   '_CRdb__Irecord': 0, '_CRdb__fieldsName': [], '__doc__': None,
   '_CRdb__keyname': []}
 >>>
 >>> class CRdb:
 ...     __fields = []
 ...     __keyname = []
 ...     __records = [ 1, 2, 3, 4 ]
 ...     Rdb)
 ['_CRdb__Irecord', '_CRdb__fieldsName', '_CRdb__keyname', '_CRdb__records',
 '__doc__', '__module__']
 >>> dir(CRdb)
 ['_CRdb__Irecord', '_CRdb__fieldsName', '_CRdb__keyname', '_CRdb__records',
 '__doc__', '__module__']
 >>> 

 This mangling is primarily of interest in cases where you might
 subclass CRdb (since the _CRdb__* members will retain their mangled
 names in 
 

 >>> class subCRdb(CRdb):
 ...    pass
 ...
 >>> dir(subCRdb)
 ['_CRdb__Irecord', '_CRdb__fieldsName', '_CRdb__keyname', '_CRdb__records',
 '__doc__', '__module__']
 >>>

 So, to access these members from outside the class you could simply
 use:

 CRdb._CRdb__FieldsName

 ... or any of the other name that you used in your class.

 However, that's considered poor OOP since it violates the intention
 of encapsulating access to the members through class/instance methods.

 Under Python 2.1 (?) and ealier it was not possible to create 
 class methods.  All functions had to be *instance* methods (they
 *had* to be presented with a "self" argument as their first parameter).

 If you added the following to your class definition:

 class CRdb:
 	# ... (your extant members)
	def setFields(self,fields)
		self.__fieldsName = fields
	def getFields(self)
		return self.__fieldsName 

 ... then you'd be adding "get" and "set" methods to your class, which
 could be used through any instance.  So to call these you'd need to 
 instantiate from CRdb like so:

 inst = CRdb()
 inst.getFields()
 inst.setFields(['one','two','three'])

 ... and so on.

 In Python 2.2 (?) some features have been added that could be used 
 to create class methods (so that you could rewrite the getFields 
 method such that it didn't require a "self" argument, and you could 
 call CRdb.getFields() directly, without instantiating and going through
 one of the instances.  

 Here's an example:

 >>> class tst(object):
 ...    __foo = 0
 ...    def setfoo(cls,val):
 ...       cls.__foo = val
 ...    setfoo = classmethod(setfoo)
 ... 
 >>> tst._tst__foo
 0
 >>> tst.setfoo(1000)
 >>> tst._tst__foo
 1000
 >>> 

 ... notice that, in order to bind classmethods (or staticmethods, 
 not shown here) into my class, I have to subclass one of the Python
 2.2 "new style" classes; such as the archetypical "object."
 A class method takes a class reference as its first argument 
 (which is analogous to the "self" reference we'd expect in instance
 methods).  The tricky part is how we have to rebind our class method
 by sort of passing it through a "classmethod()" factory.  I don't
 fully understand what this does, but it allowed Guido et al to 
 make this change without any fundamental syntactic change to the 
 core language.  
 
 We don't need a new keyword and/or changes to the parser since 
 it was never a syntax error to define methods in classes with no 
 references to "self."  (Any attempt to use such a method in a 
 "classical (old style) class" was doomed, since the arguments 
 would be all wrong, but that was a runtime issue, not a parsing
 or syntactical problem per se).

 So where have we come:  
 
 You can access the members of your class directly by applying our 
 a priori knowledge of how the names are mangled.  This would be 
 considered "bad practice (TM)" by OOP purists (and in fact it's 
 tacky enough that I have to cry foul even though I'm a bit of an 
 anti-OOP neanderthal).  
 
 You can create methods to set and get these members through instances 
 (but you need to instantiate and go through them).  That seems 
 inelegant, since if "feels" like you're going though the back
 door to get to the class members.  But it's the only way for earlier
 versions of Python (other than the "even-more-uglier-ly" technique
 of reaching in from outside the class entirely).

 You can subclass "object" and use class methods (under 2.2 or later).

 But that's not all.  You might also be able to use another classy new 
 Python 2.2 feature called "properties" to manage access to your
 class (or instance) members.

 Here's an example of that:

 >>> class tst(object):
 ...   def getfoo(cls):
 ...     return cls.__foo
 ...   getfoo = classmethod(getfoo)
 ...   def setfoo(cls,val):
 ...     cls.__foo = val
 ...   setfoo = classmethod(setfoo)
 ...   __foo = property(getfoo, setfoo, None, "tst class' foo member")
 ...
 >>> tst._tst__foo
 <property object at 0x806f754>
 >>> tst.getfoo()
 <property object at 0x806f754>
 >>> tst.setfoo("tst")
 >>> tst.getfoo()
 'tst'
 >>>

 The important points above are:

 	I define a pair of functions (using the convention "get" and "set"
	names) to manipulate __foo.  I then make them classmethods.
	Now I use the property "factory" to create my member *and* to
	bind it to a set of "accessors" (get, set, and del functions).
	In this example I'm binding the property "__foo" to the 
	accessors "getfoo" and "setfoo" (following the common naming
	conventions), and I've omitted binding it to a delete function.
	(I have also associated __foo with a doc string, as shown).

 In my example I see that tst._tst__foo is initially bound to 
 a "property object."  I see that accessing it via the getfoo()
 class method returns a reference to exactly the same object.  In 
 practice I might want to set an initial value to such a member 
 (in my class definition) since I don't know what happens if other
 code encounters this "property object" (by access tst.getfoo()
 before any tst.setfoo() calls).   Oddly enough I found that I couldn't
 just add: tst.setfoo(0) to my class definition (I still get the 
 property references from an initial "tst.getfoo()" call).  However,
 adding a line like: __foo = 0 (or whatever) after the call to
 __foo = property(...) does seem to work.  __foo then contains a 
 value *and* it retains its special "properties" of being accessible
 via the get and set methods that I bound to it.

 So, that answers a question which is implicit to yours: how can you the 
 the class members at all?  Now on to your real question: how can you 
 define an iterator for instances of your class, and bind that iterator
 to a specific member sequence?

 At this point I have to assume that your pasted code is completely 
 bogus.  It would make no sense to create __records as a *class*
 member.  I must assume that you really want it to be an *instance*
 member (which would presumably be instantiated or bound through 
 your __init__() method).  (Silly me!  I spend all of that time 
 explaining how to work with "private" (__mangled) *class* members 
 before understanding your question).

"Iterators" are another new Python 2.2 feature.  
Here's a trivial example (similar to the one you'd want in your code):

 class tstIter:
 	# Notice, works with "classical" classes 
	# and with "classy" new classes
 	__foo = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7]
  	def __iter__(self):
		return iter(self.__foo)

 Now it is possible to say:

 	stoopid_example = tstIter()
	for each in stoopidexample:
		print each

 ... which seems straightforward enough.  However, it probably
 make no sense in reality.  You probably need for __records to be
 an *instance* variable (member).  That would look a little more
 like:


 class CRdb:
	__fieldsName= []
	__keyname= []
	__iRecord= 0
	def __init__(self, recs=None):
		if recs:
			self.__records = recs
		else:
			self.__records = [] 
	def __iter__(self):
		return iter(self.__records)

 That (minimally) would allow your sample code to run as you 
 *probably* intended it.

 Of course you might want to combine this with a set of accessor
 functions to ensure that self.__records is always some sort of 
 sequence.  You could write get* and set* functions and bind them
 to self.__records with a call to property()

 I'll leave all of that as an exercise.




From bt98 at doc.ic.ac.uk  Mon Mar  4 06:21:36 2002
From: bt98 at doc.ic.ac.uk (Benjamin Tai)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:21:36 +0000
Subject: what is happening at __init__
Message-ID: <3C8358C0.81D97AD8@doc.ic.ac.uk>

Hi,

I was simply curious, finding out what is happening at the class
constructor. The followings are the questions/answers that I come up
with, in related with my program attached:

Q 1) "self" is already assigned to the instance of the class at the
point entering the constructor.
Q 2) Although "self" is assigned to a new value within the function, it
is in a local scope.
Q 3) A constructor must return None, it cannot return "self".
Q 4) The address of instance matches with the instance within the
constructor.
Q 5) Even though the constructor returns None, the instance is properly
initialised (with inherited attributes).



The following is my program:

#############

class A:
    x = 100

class B(A):

    def __init__(self):
        #  Q1
        print 'inside constructor self is ', self
        self = 300
        # Q2
        print 'inside constructor self is ', self
        # Q3
        return None

b = 200
b = B()
print 'after constructor instance b is ', b
# Q4
print 'instance b contains attribute x, valued ', b.x
# Q5

############


The following is the trace:

prompt > inside constructor self is  <__main__.B instance at 0x80e9c94>
prompt > inside constructor self is  300
prompt > after constructor instance b is  <__main__.B instance at
0x80e9c94>
prompt > instance b contains attribute x, valued  100




Could anyone tell me whether the explanation is correct or not? Any
comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ben



From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sun Mar 10 09:50:59 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 14:50:59 GMT
Subject: win32 extension: rare PythonService problem
References: <rrui8.2150$P4.203427@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91CD6455D4DCCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>

Zihong Lu wrote:

> I use the win32 extension PythonService to write a windows service for
> our project.  The service runs fine on most NT, win2k machines. 
> Recently our customers reported that for some PCs, the command "python
> MyService.py start" returned as usual, no traceback, but the service
> did not start at all.  

I would suspect permissions. I had a similar experience when 
moving a service from a test box to prod. Eventually the sys 
admin created a new account and things started working. As a
lowly contractor I wasn't allowed to find out what he 
actually did, though ;-(.

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 01:38:31 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:38:31 -0500
Subject: list subscripting (nested lists)
References: <a2972632.0203302016.26b6a2d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6AEE7.FCA19F98@engcorp.com>

les ander wrote:
> 
> is it possible to have nested lists indexing in python?
> i.e. index=[3,1,1] and List1=['a','b','c','d']
> then List1[ index ] should print out ['d','b','b']
> 
> I think this would be a cool feature to add if not already present.

It's already present...

>>> index = [3, 1, 1]
>>> list = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']

With list comprehensions:

>>> [list[i] for i in index]
['d', 'b', 'b']

Any Python:

>>> map(list.__getitem__, index)
['d', 'b', 'b']

Good enough?


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  1 06:23:59 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:23:59 -0500
Subject: ASV module, CVS modules
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com> <3C7F4014.7090800@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F64CF.771E7319@engcorp.com>

Michael Str?der wrote:
> 
> John Machin wrote:
> >
> > You 2: On Windows, either use forward slashes "c:/test_data.csv" (it
> > works!)
> 
> AFAIK this does not work on W2K anymore. I might be wrong.

Since Win2K is just WinNT relabelled, I suspect you're wrong.
I could be wrong though. :)


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Fri Mar 29 18:38:59 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:38:59 +1100
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <AE7F3B92-433D-11D6-ADF0-003065D61546@lanl.gov>
References: <AE7F3B92-433D-11D6-ADF0-003065D61546@lanl.gov>
Message-ID: <200203292339.XAA17559@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 04:52, rasmussn at lanl.gov wrote:
> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 10:46 AM, phil hunt wrote:
> >> "Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
> >> message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
> >>
> >>> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
> >>> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
> >>> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
> >>> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> >>> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> >>> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> >>> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
>
> How about a Python substitute for make.

Isn't that what SCCons is all about?

    http://www.scons.org/


    Richard



From facelle at jumpy.it  Fri Mar 15 14:02:04 2002
From: facelle at jumpy.it (Fabrizio)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:02:04 +0100
Subject: Access to shared directories
Message-ID: <a6tg6u$69$1@serv1.albacom.net>

Hi,

Newbie.
Python 2.1.2 on Win98.

I just want to read a .txt file that I have in a shared directory on another
PC
which is part of a WindowsNT/98 LAN.

What path should I use in order to read that file from my PC ?

Thanks in advance,

Fabrizio









From aahz at panix.com  Fri Mar  8 11:24:04 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 08:24:04 -0800
Subject: how to pass by reference??
References: <a3knt6$gr3$1@news.efn.org> <jAe88.87233$KM2.2811767@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <a3sklt$7vr$1@panix2.panix.com> <Mfw88.94809$KM2.3437354@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <a6aoj4$2nr$1@panix2.panix.com>

[after letting this sit for a couple of weeks, I decided I wanted to
make a couple more additions; I'm leaving this mostly unsnipped for
clarity.]

In article <Mfw88.94809$KM2.3437354 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>,
Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
>news:a3sklt$7vr$1 at panix2.panix.com...
>> 
>> Um, that's not IMO/IME a particularly useful way to look at it.  I don't
>> remember who first proposed it, but I find talking about "names" and
>> "bindings" to be much clearer.  When talking about parameter passing, one
>> would say that the function parameters create new names that get bound to
>> the passed in objects.  Any time one uses assignment on the function
>> parameter names (or any other name in Python, for that matter), the name
>> gets rebound to a different object.
>>
>Maybe we should beat this one to death with a rock ;-)  I should point out
>this is not for Aahz' benefit, since he knows it already.
>
>Any time one uses assignment, one causes a name to be bound to an object.
>Argument passing is actually binding a name (the argument name, present in
>the function's local namesspace) to an existing object -- whatever was
>passed as an argument, whether it was written as a complex expression (which
>could create an object "on the fly") or simply as an existing name (which
>would be a simple reference to an existing object).
>
>Assignment to the argument name inside the function, as Aahz points out,
>simply rebinds the argument name to a new value. Which means that such an
>assignment will not change the object passed as an argument.
>
>Assignment to *a component of the argument*, however, is a completely
>different case (as I think someone else has already pointed out). So, if you
>pass in to a function an argument arg, the assignment
>
>    arg = something_new
>
>will leave the argument object completely unaltered. However, the assignment
>
>    arg[0] = something_new
>
>will modify a list argument, and this modification will be visible outside
>the function as well as inside it. You have mutated the object passed as an
>argument, and so all names bound to that object will access the mutated
>value. Similarly with arg.attr = something.new, arg.append(something), and
>so on.

In the case of arg[0], this is Python's special syntactic sugar for
turning an assignment into a method call:

    arg.__setitem__(something_new)

As pointed out earlier, this still involves a binding (because methods
are functions), but it's hidden through the method call.  In fact, there
are actually two bindings, one for the method call itself and one inside
the method when it mutates the object.

In the case of arg.attr, I think it should be made clear that in Python
the "." is a signifier for namespace access.  That is, "arg.attr" should
probably be written as namespace.attr for the purpose of this
discussion.  That makes it clearer that you can do things like this:

    import foo
    foo.bar = something_new

    def f():
        pass
    f.a = something_new

>> If the object is mutable and mutated, all names that are bound to that
>> object see the changes.  Mutation, by definition, *never* involves a
>> rebinding of the object being mutated (that is, mutation never takes
>> place in an assignment -- though of course the assignment expression
>> might involve mutation as a side-effect).
>>
>You have to be careful to distinguish here between simple assignments (x =
>expr) and augmented assignments (x += expr), since the latter are explicitly
>allowed to mutate the object referenced by the name, but need not do so if
>the implementation of the object concerned chooses not to. The former, I
>agree, are simple rebindings.

Again, augmented assignment translates into a method call; whether the
method returns the original object or a new one depends primarily on
whether the object implementing the method is mutable or immutable.

>> (Yes, you're talking about binding, but you don't go whole hog, which
>> confuses the issue.)
>>
>I didn't get where I am today by not going the whole hog <wink>.
>
>luckily-tim's-at-developers'-day-ly y'rs  - steve

Not anymore!

(I'm doing this followup primarily for myself, as part of the tutorial
I'm hoping to do for OSCON this year.)
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar  7 23:57:10 2002
From: l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:57:10 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3C880AC2.6070708@sneakemail.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:

> I have another idea that doesn't suffer from that
> problem.
> 
>   def string my_string:
>     This is a free-form string constant. Its value consists
>     of all the text at this indentation level, verbatim,
>     with the indentation stripped off. It can contain
>     ', ", ''', """, \ or any other characters.
> 
> 


But then you have to indent everything in the text to that level, which 
isn't quite the same as cut-and-paste arbitrary text any more.  Granted, 
it's not hard to do with a good editor, but neither is escaping a 
whatever triple quotes you might find in the text (even Notepad can do 
that).

For that matter, the PEPs to make Python more unforgiving of what's 
contained in strings (only valid declared encodings or binary as octal 
escape sequences) seem to be advancing rapidly, so schemes for stuffing 
more arbitrary and unexamined junk into the source code seem to be 
heading in the wrong direction.

I guess I don't really see the motivation for the proposed feature.  If 
triple quoting isn't sufficient, I'd take that as a sign that the 
material should be a separate data file...it's not like Python makes it 
hard to read an external file into a string.

Joshua



From newgene at bigfoot.com  Wed Mar 27 00:02:25 2002
From: newgene at bigfoot.com (newgene)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 21:02:25 -0800
Subject: Looking for a python shell under linux like PythonWin
Message-ID: <a50631f6.0203262102.4bdc160d@posting.google.com>

Hi, group,
     The only python shell under linux I can find is IDLE, but it is
not as good as PythonWin. A important feature "Attribute expansion"(a
list of attributes for selection when pressing period after a module
name) is not available. Is there a good python shell existing on linux
now?

Thanks.

Newgene


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar 20 22:32:38 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:32:38 +1200
Subject: Attachments to the list/group - OK?  (Was Re: Popular style 
 document?)
References: <mailman.1016647893.2182.python-list@python.org> <IR5m8.37085$N7.6537007@ruti.visi.com> <slrna9ibkr.ev.dietmar@bronko.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <3C995456.C0E85C39@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Dietmar Lang wrote:
> 
> Well, there are things such as binaries or images groups where people
> constantly exchange files. Can't you simply attach them, or do they post
> them inline?

Using an attachment for that makes fairly good sense
in this day and age, given that MIME-aware mail and
news readers are pretty widespread... provided that
posting it to a newsgroup is really appropriate in
the first place.

Binaries groups came into existence before we had
the Web. Now that we do, posting a link to a web
site is usually preferable to posting anything
large to a newsgroup.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From ifls at rz.tu-clausthal.de  Tue Mar 19 03:50:13 2002
From: ifls at rz.tu-clausthal.de (Lutz Schroeer)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 08:50:13 GMT
Subject: Pure python alternative to mx.DateTime?
Message-ID: <a76u45$2iro$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de>

One of my web hosts does not have a C compiler installed so I can't install
mx.DateTime on that machine, because it need some C routines.

Unfortunately I'm in need of some simple time and date calculations
(ISO-time, how many days from now, weekdays, etc.).

Is there any alternative to mx without inventing the wheel for the second
time and programming it by myself?

Lutz

-- 


  



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Mar  7 14:38:02 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:38:02 GMT
Subject: Determine size of wxSplitterWindow
Message-ID: <3c87c189.40797156@news.easynews.net>

Hi,

I have cut down my problem. It seems to be impossible
for me to determine the size of a wxSplitterWindow. The results of
GetSizeTuple() are wrong. How comes?

btw.: sashPostion=0 should split the Window in the middle,
which it does not.


Tanks for any help.
Marcus

-----snip--
from wxPython.wx import *

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------

class ABA_CM(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        title = "Test"
        frame = MainFrame(NULL, -1, title)
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
class MainFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, -1, title,size=wxDefaultSize,
                         pos=wxDefaultPosition)

        splitter=wxSplitterWindow(self, -1)
        CMwin = wxWindow(splitter, -1, 
                       size=wxDefaultSize,pos=wxDefaultPosition)
        ABAwin = wxWindow(splitter, -1, 
                        size=wxDefaultSize,pos=wxDefaultPosition)
        splitter.SplitVertically(CMwin, ABAwin,sashPosition=0)
        CMwin.SetBackgroundColour(wxRED)
        ABAwin.SetBackgroundColour(wxBLUE)

        print CMwin.GetSizeTuple()
        print ABAwin.GetSizeTuple()
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
app = ABA_CM(0)
app.MainLoop()
-----snap--	


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sat Mar 16 21:34:17 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 18:34:17 -0800
Subject: Enhanced information from common exceptions
References: <mailman.1016329287.10294.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xsn6zx6qe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> A difficulty with this kind of thing is that producing exception info
> doesn't come for free.  Before 2.2, raising IndexError was the only way to
> terminate a "for" loop via normal exhaustion, and the list indexing code has
> no idea *why* it's being called.  If it produced more info on an
> out-of-range index, it would slow down every normal loop by the time it took
> to construct a nice exception message doomed to be thrown away unlooked-at.
> Note that the integers in your ideal message have to go through binary ->
> decimal string conversion, and lots of dynamic string fiddling to paste all
> the msg pieces together.  The cycles add up fast.

Well, raising the exception could put the index and list length into
slots in the exception object, rather than formatting them.  Exception
objects could even have a few built-in slots for such purposes, so
they wouldn't have to contain dictionaries.


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar 23 11:07:10 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:07:10 -0800
Subject: simple question
References: <mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list@python.org> <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net> <mailman.1016868517.25439.python-list@python.org> <qh1n8.45972$2q2.4038976@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a7i9j9$lm4o4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Terry Reedy
> ) or 4 digits:
>   ''.split(str(a))
> ?
> 

hmm... list(str(a)) does better for me.

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From paul at boddie.net  Mon Mar 11 10:25:49 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 07:25:49 -0800
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
References: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203110725.4e033c2f@posting.google.com>

writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell) wrote in message news:<88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I've got an idea that anyone is welcome to shoot holes in as it's only
> in the 'thought' process now. <g> I work for a company that develops
> big content web sites using CGI's built with C++ as the primary
> programming model. We also use Netscapes iPlanet as our web server.

I've lived through this kind of nightmare myself - C++ is bad enough
as a programming language for CGI-based applications (even with
reasonably high-level libraries), but to add the iPlanet Web server to
all that is particularly cruel.

[Description of a mod_python or mod_snake equivalent]

> We don't have to work out any of the complexities of
> connecting mod_python.so to iPlanet.

Well, there was once an implementation of an NSAPI module which surely
worked with Netscape's (now iPlanet's) server products, and even that
might be worth looking into. Personally, having been inconvenienced
enough in the past by the "features" of Netscape's Web server, and not
being entirely convinced that the product has moved on considerably
over the past few years, I'd seriously suggest saving yourself some
work and moving to Apache if at all possible.

> What do you think of this idea? Am I completely off base and missing
> some other obvious solution?

Here are some options:

  * The NSAPI module, if you can find it and it still works. (And
    you're desperate to stick with iPlanet server - that licence
    was probably expensive, unless it came free with Solaris...)

  * Apache with mod_python or mod_snake, or even mod_webkit (and
    Webware) or SkunkWeb.

  * iPlanet, Apache or something else, with a CGI adapter (or
    something more exotic - see the previous option) and one of
    the Python Web frameworks.

The last option is a bit more radical, since you would need to adopt a
different programming model. However, Webware's servlets and even
Zope's products are nicer to write than CGI programs.

Paul


From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 21 07:27:19 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:27:19 GMT
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
References: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <u4rjc4bzw.fsf@python.net> <a78kmp$85t$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <uy9gm14rw.fsf@python.net>

ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy) writes:

> > More detail needed.
> 
> And you'll get it.  This was just a two line overview  :-)

Get on with it then!

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Monte Carlo sampling is no way to understand code.
                                  -- Gordon McMillan, comp.lang.python


From bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com  Mon Mar  4 17:10:08 2002
From: bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com (Brendan Hahn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:10:08 -0800
Subject: Adding static typing to Python
References: <0DFA7478F1E5D311B90900508B1208CF565714@ausmail02.mis.gtech.com> <mailman.1014092911.31096.python-list@python.org> <gft37u8csm1ukd923nr933iq7meimqu5i7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bhahn-ya02408000R0403021410080001@news.corp.hp.com>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
>One of the things I like about C sharp is their use of attributes,
>where you can define getters and setters on an attribute, but
>otherwise the attribute is simply used as if it were a public one.

Eiffel does this. It was one of the first things to make me say "Cool!"
when I started looking into it.

bhahn at transoft.mmangle.net   <-- unmangle address to reply


From MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de  Wed Mar 20 15:31:46 2002
From: MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de (maximilianscherr)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:31:46 -0000
Subject: eval()
Message-ID: <a7arji+u1l8@eGroups.com>

what does eval exactly do?

could it do somehting like opening a text file with this:

hello = 1
if hello = 1:
  print 'yeah'

eval(readline()[:-1])
...

?

like external scripts?




From Moo at houston.rr.com  Thu Mar  7 00:24:42 2002
From: Moo at houston.rr.com (Avi Homes)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 05:24:42 GMT
Subject: Dictionaries in Lists
References: <ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <a661gr$d2s$1@mwrns.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <uQCh8.72640$0y2.3091942@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

"j vickroy" <jim.vickroy at noaa.gov> wrote in message
news:a661gr$d2s$1 at mwrns.noaa.gov...
> Nothing wrong with the idea.
>
> Did you specify:
>
> > Info = {'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah"}
>
> or what you posted (which had some syntax errors)?
>
> "Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ayvh8.55100$6j2.3265866 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> > I was attempting to make a list of dictionaries, which to me feels like
> the
> > C equivlant of an array of structs, kind of. anyway, after making a
> > dictionary and putting some values into it, and trying to append it to a
> > list, python is not liking this. Am I approaching the idea the wrong
way?
> i
> > would like to keep the data organized as dictionaries.. the code looked
> > something like
> >
> > Info{'IName':"Voodoo2",'IDescription':"blahblah}
> > Listing=[]
> > Listing.append(Info)

I was shooting it off of the top of my head, the code is on the student
network which I do not have access to from home.  Anyway, there was an
assignment sign between the Info and {} for the dictionary.  I'll have to
look at the code again, but alas, I'm leaving town today (thursday) and ill
be gone for two weeks. so, I may just end up rewriting the code, because I
know that the idea will work, I can indeed put a list of dictionaries, so
I'll just rewrite it while im on the plane.  thanks guys, and next time ill
have the code with me





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Mar 19 08:24:24 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:24:24 +0300
Subject: socket.gethostbyname() AttributeError
In-Reply-To: <uPGl8.1121$MC5.110514@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>; from ralph@penguin.com on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 01:12:58PM +0000
References: <uPGl8.1121$MC5.110514@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020319162424.L3447@phd.pp.ru>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 01:12:58PM +0000, Ralph wrote:
> I assumed that for scoket.gethostbyname(host), I was to pass a host of the 
> type "theodore.chipmunks.com" and that I would get back an IP address as a 
> doted quad.  Obviously I am wrong about the form of the arguement I am to 
> pass to the function, because I am getting an AttributeError message.
> 
> Can anyone offer some insight?

Python 2.2 (#1, Dec 24 2001, 17:25:15) 
[GCC 2.95.2 20000220 (Debian GNU/Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import socket
>>> socket.gethostbyname("www.python.org")
'194.109.137.226'

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Thu Mar 14 00:42:23 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:42:23 -0800
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
References: <mailman.1016081544.20663.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6oh40.3vsen5b.1@kserver.org>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:51:22 +1100, "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016081544.20663.python-list at python.org>:

> > From: Sheila King [mailto:usenet at thinkspot.net]

> > How does something with list comprehensions compare? Like:
> > 
> > b = [entry for entry in b if entry not in a]
> > 
> > Is this as slow as the original method suggested? Or is it closer to
> > dictionary performance?
> 
> Essentially, that is identical to the original method. Simply expand it out
> ... (need to use a temporary name though).
> 
> temp_b = []
> 
> for entry in b:
>     if entry not in a:
>         temp_b.append(entry)
> 
> b = temp_b
> del temp_b

I understand how it works logically. I simply thought there might've been
some tricky C implementation of list comprehensions that improved
performance.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 10:30:33 2002
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 07:30:33 -0800
Subject: how to check how many bytes are available to read() ?
References: <2b57f654.0203142026.68ec3fc7@posting.google.com> <slrna92v0d.8rs.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <b0c5da3a.0203150730.41c8dc4@posting.google.com>

Examples of using pipes and the work around for blocking reads.
Use os.read(fileHandle)

http://ezwiki.com/2.54/python/popenTest.py
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=105470&aid=527783&group_id=5470

--Darrell

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in message news:
> 
> If f is a pipe, then you can use select -- at least under Unix.
> I don't know about Windows.


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar 27 20:13:28 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:13:28 +1100
Subject: Why does this work?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A23D@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Don Garrett [mailto:garrett at bgb-consulting.com]
> 
> "Delaney, Timothy" wrote:
> > 
> > __slots__
> 
>   Um... this does help protect them from outside 
> interferance, but doesn't in
> any way require them to have been initialized in __init__, or 
> even protect you
> from a misspelled name, does it? Just trying to make sure 
> that nothing goes on
> with __names besides the name mangling into __class__name.

http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/index.html#SECTION000340000000000000000

__slots__ does indeed protect against misspelled names (but does not require
initialisation in __init__ - that's up to you).

For a private attribute, I think you would need to do the name mangling for
__slots__ manually i.e.

    __slots__ = ['_ClassName__attr']

although I'm happy to be corrected if this is not indeed the case :)

Tim Delaney



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Mar 21 02:51:32 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:51:32 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016645913.29048.python-list@python.org> <3C998FDE.5080204@geneva-link.ch>
Message-ID: <eppstein-02FE01.23513220032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C998FDE.5080204 at geneva-link.ch>,
 Boris^2 <borcis at geneva-link.ch> wrote:

> > I'm trying to figure out what the Internet is thinking today. 
> 
> What the internet is thinking, what the market is thinking...
> sounds to me like attempts to pass epidemics for thought processes.

I don't know, sometimes it seems like Google is close to omniscient.
Of course, it can't pass the Turing test, but its answers to 
natural-language questions are usually a lot more intelligent than the 
answers of programs designed to pass Turing tests.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From herrn at gmx.net  Thu Mar  7 18:50:52 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:50:52 +0100
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
In-Reply-To: <TXLh8.15020$N7.3388991@ruti.visi.com>
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.1015496653.15042.python-list@python.org> <TXLh8.15020$N7.3388991@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20020307235052.GB4209@lurkabove.darkstar>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:46:59PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <mailman.1015496653.15042.python-list at python.org>, Marco Herrn wrote:
> 
> > Is there a reason why this is just a convention?
> 
> Because it seems to work well enough that way.
> 
> > It seems (because it is such a _strong_ convention) that this
> > should be a real feature of the language. I mean that there
> > could be a reserved word "self" which is there all the time, so
> > that one doesn't hast to do this himself.
> 
> It would make the language and the parser more complex.
> Extra cost must be justified by some corresponding gain.  It
> would also make it less obvious what "self" is if the first
> parameter to a method was hidden from the user.
> 
> If a function expects a parameter, then it should show up in
> the function definition.  Methods are just functions whose
> first parameter is expected to be an object reference.

Hmm, ok. All you say seems right to me. But what is a bit strange is,
that I explicitly have to implement 'self', but don't give it as argument.
If a have a method with the defininion 'f(self)' I call this method only
with 'f()'. So the declaration doesn't look the same like the call.

So you think it will stay this way, that one has to implement it for
himself. That's ok. I can live with that. But I don't see any
disadvantage, when changing the language so that a 'self' statement is
always available.

Bye
Marco

-- 
Ein fester Satz an Vorurteilen ist ausgesprochen praktisch. Er
erspart einem das Nachdenken.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Mar 13 12:26:40 2002
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:26:40 +0100
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <u8v0dg4lej417@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a6o24g$5t5$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

> It happens to me too, mostly when I'm using a sliding window
> type algorithm, that is, I need to look at two adjacent members
> of the list. You can't do this easily by iterating through the list;
> unrolling the first entry and the last entry are a pain.
>
> Is there a way of handling this nicely? Somehow I doubt it.

class ListWindow:
    def __init__ (self, list):
        self.list = list + [None]   # assuming None is a suitable out of
bounds value

    def __getitem__ (self, index):
        return self.list [index:index + 2]

for currentItem, nextItem in ListWindow (mylist):
    <whatever>

Daniel




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  8 15:20:10 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:20:10 -0600
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
In-Reply-To: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>
References: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>
Message-ID: <15497.7418.152505.116790@beluga.mojam.com>

>>>>> "Jeremy" == Jeremy Cromwell <Cromwell> writes:

    Jeremy> [is] the current integer for-loop syntax

    Jeremy>     for i in range(10):

    Jeremy> a wart?

-Wart

Actually, I'd call it a mini-wart, sort of halfway between -Wart and -Wart?.

Explanation:

It seems a bit cumbersome that you have to call a function to use such a
fundamental control structure.  From an optimization point of view, a purely
syntactic indexing construct would allow better inference about data types.
You can't know ahead of time that range() always returns ints.  (I've never
seen anyone override it, but it *is* possible.)  Tools like PyChecker can
get away with assuming it's an int.  Psyco assumes builtin functions never
change, so it can dramtically improve for loop execution by dealing just
with C ints.  That means, strictly speaking, that it's not semantically
identical to CPython, however.  I believe over time it will be able to relax
its assumptions about range's befahvior and do the semantically right thing.
(I think Python2C also had an option that allowed the programmer to state
this explicitly.)

So, in my mind a syntactic replacement for range() would be nice, but not of
earth-shattering importance.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sun Mar 31 06:16:47 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:16:47 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl> <m3adsp8zie.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA6F012.E2631003@accessforall.nl>

Martin,

you wrote:
> 
> Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl> writes:
> 
> > Python is sufficiently high level not to care about the bits.
> > Python never had a C float type, only a C double type, for precisily
> > this reason.
> 
> Python does, however, have a long int type, side-by-side with the int
> type - because it cares about bits. Atleast it used to, there is a PEP
> for merging the two integer types. There is also a PEP merging all
> numeric types into a single one, or a hierarchy of types.

I was referring to the bits in flag registers which allow all kinds of
beatiful assembly language optimizations.
I think we mostly agree here.
I'd like to know whether this PEP merging all numeric types would also merge
the bool type into its evt. hierarchy.

> 
> Notice that the relationship of bool and int has two aspects: one is
> whether you can combine them in numeric operations,
> e.g. 28+isleap(year). There is absolutely no way to remove this
> property from the language - too much code would break if that would
> raise an exception.

There are two ways to do this:
- marking such code with: from __past__ import nonbool
  (as I remarked earlier this is rather radical)
- defining __add__ and __radd__ in the int and float classes to also accept a bool
  sounds quite pythonic and acceptable to me.

> The other question is whether bool should inherit from int. Notice
> that this is unrelated: you could have the arithmetic operations even
> without inheritance. The inheritance from int is mostly an
> implementation convenience: too much code in the interpreter itself
> would need to change to make bool inherit from object only.

Agreed.
 
> > Somehow this reminds me of subclassing Square from Rectangle:
> > it just doesn't feel right, even though it might work.
> 
> I can't see the relationship: A Sqare is-a Rectangle, so following
> classic OO principles, the inheritance is clearly right. Depending on
> how you define the Rectangle interface, this inheritance relationship
> would even satisfy LSP.

An Square that is a Rectangle has inherits two degrees of freedom,
(height and width) which have to constrained to a single one in the
implementation.
Implementing such constraints is a bit awkward and can be avoided
by implementing Square as a OneDegreeOfFreedomThing and a Rectangle
as a TwoDegreeOfFreedomThing.
These ...DegreeOfFreedomThing's are intended as abstract to be consistent
with the design rule to not inherit from a class that has instantions.

When bool is-a int, one would have to (awkwardly) implement at least one
such constraint, namely that bool values can only be 1 or 0.

> > With a non int bool, True and False would be real singletons:
> >
> > bool(1) is True
> > bool(0) is False
> 
> They are singletons even under the PEP: You have to work really hard
> to make two instances of True (bool(1) is (not bool(0)) is bool(1) is
> True); and if it was a type not inheriting from int, you could *still*
> make extra instances if you wanted to hard enough.
> 
> > True is not 1
> 
> This is True in the PEP.
> 
> > True != 1
> 
> This is False, and it should be, since making it True would break
> backwards compatibility.

Ok. But just like the bool + int things above
this could be implemented by implementing __cmp__ and
__rcmp__ for the bool class and/or the numeric class.

> 
> > Subclassing bool from int would also force 1 and 0 to be become
> > real singletons.
> 
> Can you elaborate? This is not at all the case.
> 
> > The only reason this would work is that current python
> > implementations happen to implement 1 and 0 in this way.
> 
> Not at all:
> 
> >>> (1>0) is 1
> 0

You're right.

> > But you could make the language definition simpler by explicitly
> > defining the cast to bool in contexts where a boolean is expected,
> > see above. This would allow the current casts (eg. list to bool as
> > non empty) to be described at the standard types instead of in the
> > language definition.
> 
> It is already that way, the method determining truth is __nonzero__;
> for historic reasons, a number of fallbacks are taken if __nonzero__
> isn't implemented.

I guess it's time for me to reread the fine manual and to read the
bool thread on python-dev about whether the __add__ and __cmp__.

Thanks for the corrections,
Regards,

Ype


From stevena at neosynapse.net  Thu Mar  7 21:28:19 2002
From: stevena at neosynapse.net (Steven D. Arnold)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:28:19 -0500
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org>
 <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <553719390.20020307212819@neosynapse.net>

Hi Fernando,

On Wednesday, March 06, 2002, at 5:05:03 AM, Fernando P?rez wrote:

FP> Very nice, and thanks for the contribution. I've long been a fan
FP> of this idea. But could you please clarify if your module is in
FP> anyway different to the 'old' interpolation module that's been the
FP> reference implementation to PEP 215? You can find it at
FP> http://web.lfw.org/python/ towards the middle of the page. Also
FP> see pep215 at http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0215.html

I apologize for not responding last time; I did see your previous
post but I'm usually very busy and I only have time to read
python-list and respond to posts occasionally (though I always enjoy
it when I do).  FYI, if you do really desire a response from me on any
subject, it's best to send an email to me directly or send me an
instant message.

I'd say the biggest difference is that istring is a type of string
(descended from the str class).  This gives it a lot of out-of-the-box
features and compatibility that itpl doesn't have.  On the other hand,
the parsing in itpl is more elegant.  When I get some time, I'll see
what I can learn from his code. :-)

In brief response to some other points raised in this thread:

1. What's wrong with the %(foo)s approach?  Nothing, if you have a
dictionary ready to go with the key/value pairs you need.  istring
fully supports the use of such constructs when you find it appropriate
to use them.  I'd say if you have a string that needs a lot of keys
from a particular dictionary and you have just such a dictionary,
you may want to use the %(foo)s format -- although personally I still
find it less pleasing to the eye and less immediately readable than
the $ notation.  I suppose there's no accounting for taste. :-)

2. Some have asked why one would not use vars() and the mapping format
all the time, since vars returns a dictionary of the local namespace?
The problem with vars() is that (at least as far as I know) it doesn't
support dictionaries, lists, object attributes and function calls.
Furthermore, if you use a mapping, it has to support all substitutions
in the string -- you can't intermingle with other variables.  With
istring, you can use $ notation for some variables and use vars() or
another mapping for other substitutions.

3. DB API substitution -- it's true, you're better off using the DB
API substitution rather than sending a literal string.  I'd like to
update istring to support this -- that is, you still see the same kind
of string from the user perspective, but the actual query is submitted
to the DB API behind the scenes in the correct way.  I feel sure this
is possible, it just hasn't been done yet.  IMO, this is by far the
most serious reason not to use istring, and it only applies to SQL.
So, I hope to remove it as an objection soon.

4. Standard library -- If anyone wishes to take the steps to include
it in the standard library, including any PEPs that may be needed in
addition to 215, you have my blessing and I'll provide support.  The
current license is LGPL-like, with the intent of ensuring changes are
open-source without infecting projects that use it.  I will make
istring available under the Python license if that is the only
obstacle keeping it from inclusion in the standard library.  In the
meantime, it's practically like, say, an r or u string, except with
parentheses:

>>> from neo.istring import istring as i
>>> l = [1,2,3]
>>> i('first value is $l.0')
'first value is 1'


Bottom line, I hope you like it and benefit from it.  If you don't
like it, then I wish you the best too, using whatever tools you do
like.  It's not a religion to me, just Python code. :-)  Cheers!

-------------------------------------------------------------- 
Steven D. Arnold                                    Neosynapse
stevena at neosynapse.net                        Managing Partner
AIM: abraxan                       MSN: neosynapse at hotmail.com





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 09:33:07 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:33:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91C993F0DB5BEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Artur Skura <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in 
news:slrna8c26g.eug.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net:

>       Ask yourself which query is clearer:
> 
>       (1) db.query("""SELECT    foo, bar
>                       FROM      %s
>                       WHERE     rsrc_id = %s
>                       AND       name = '%s'" % (table, rsrc_id, name))
> 
>       Or:
> 
>       (2) qry = istring("""SELECT   foo, bar
>                            FROM     $table
>                            WHERE    rsrc_id = $rsrc_id
>                            AND      name = $.name""")
>           db.query(qry)
> 
I vote for (3):
  db.query("""SELECT    foo, bar
              FROM      %(table)s
              WHERE     rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)s
              AND       name = '%(name)s'" % vars())

You have the names for interpolation, AND control over the formatting. 
Someone should dust down the time machine and implement it. Oops, they did.

Although, I sure hope there aren't any funny characters embedded in any of 
those variables that might turn the query into a DELETE...

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From justin at iago.org  Mon Mar 11 11:03:47 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:03:47 -0500
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
In-Reply-To: <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com> (morton@dennisinter.com's
 message of "10 Mar 2002 10:59:51 -0800")
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org>
	<4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com>
	<gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com>
	<4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x7vgc3147w.fsf@ra.iago.org>

morton at dennisinter.com (damien  morton) writes:

> Strings are like sequences in that their individual elements
> (characters ONLY) can be accessed as a sequence, but there are
> important differences in the kinds of things people want to do with
> strings.

Strings are not like sequences, strings are sequences.

> I think the verb IN means something slightly different for strings
> than it does for sequences and dicts.

Again, since strings are sequences, the operator "in" does not mean
something different for strings than it does for sequences.  It
cannot, since that sentence is not meaningful.

You may think that about a verb, but the issue at hand is an operator.

As readable as Python is, it does  not (and should not) strive to read
just like English or any other language except perhaps Dutch.

-Justin

 




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 11:29:48 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:29:48 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8f5bs.h3s.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:35:06 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>In article <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
> Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:
>
>> I fail to see how it is is greader readability or understanding when the
>> current method is both.
>
>I diagree that the current method has both, or either.  I don't know 
>about you, but I find "for x in range(n-1,-1,-1)" to be a difficult to 
>read and difficult to understand way of obfuscating a simple loop over 
>the numbers 0 to n-1 in reverse order.  I think "for n > x >= 0" would 
>be much simpler.

I think 

   for x = n-1 to 0 step -1:

would be about as obvious as it gets

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From gargravarr at whoever.com  Wed Mar 20 15:34:31 2002
From: gargravarr at whoever.com (gargravarr at whoever.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:34:31 GMT
Subject: Unicode problem
Message-ID: <3c98f206.24909027@news.tiscali.no>

I have a problem with Unicode strings, the error I get is:
	UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

It is caused by 
	body.write('<h2>%s</h2>\n' % i.firstChild.data)

Where body is a StringIO object, and i is a xml.dom.minidom object.
The characters it reacts to is the 3 Norwegian 'extra' ones: ?, ?, ?
 (if you can see them)

Using Python2.2 on Win32

Help appreciated

Thansk in advance!

Tom



From nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 12:54:51 2002
From: nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk (Nick)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:54:51 -0000
Subject: Newbie: word count and Win32
References: <e9cd3ea2.0203190421.904cdfb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a77uh2$v6t$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Joe Christl" <jchristl at zdnetmail.com> wrote in message
news:e9cd3ea2.0203190421.904cdfb at posting.google.com...
> newbie here (don't you just cringe when you read that? :),
>
> I downloaded the python EXE from
> http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.2/, found a script on the
> mail.python.org Tutor page:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2001-February/003403.html
>
> but I can't seem to get it to run.  I would like it to run from the
> C:\ command prompt, like so:
>
> c:\count.py foo.txt   (or)
> c:\count.pyc foo.txt
>
> and have it output the lines, words, and characters.  I have tried to
> even get it working from the >>> prompt, to no avail.
>
> Am I doing something wrong here?
>
> Thanks for your ideas,
> Joe

What happens if you type python c:\count.py foo.txt?





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 07:56:58 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:56:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: implementing a constant singleton
References: <p4_n8.1650$Ya2.72647@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91DD839CE26F5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"robin and jim" <robinjim at earthlink.net> wrote in 
news:p4_n8.1650$Ya2.72647 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net:

> Is this the way to implement a constant singleton class using Python 2.2
> "new-style" classes?
If you really feel a need for singletons, then I suppose this is a way to 
do them. Personally, I prefer to avoid singletons if possible.
 
> class Message(str):
> 
>    def __new__(this_class, specification):
>       print 'Message.__new__ applied by %s' % str(this_class)
        self = str.__new__(this_class, specification)
>       self.subject = specification[0]
>       self.body = specification[1:]
Running __new__ and __init__ together gets round your issue with __init__ 
being called every time.

> class Constant_Singleton_Message(Message):
> 
>    def __new__(this_class):
>       it = this_class.__dict__.get('__it__')
Don't use __it__ as it is reserved for Python.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Sun Mar 31 01:15:37 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:15:37 +1100
Subject: Subclass sadness (was Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type)
In-Reply-To: <yu99hemx1e8r.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <a85od6$9i$1@pani <yu99hemx1e8r.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <200203310615.GAA25295@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:46, Andrew Koenig wrote:
> The other way around -- inheriting rectangle from square -- would
> seem to make more sense because a rectangle has all the information
> that a square does, and then some.  But that doesn't really work either,
> because then you can no longer assume that every kind of square is
> really a square.  After all, it might be a rectangle.

Hrm, just following this thought here, possibly for no good reason at all 
(hey, it's Sunday, and daylight savings just ended so I've got a whole _hour_ 
extra to waste today :)... hell, I can't even remember what the point of the 
circle/ellipse comment was ;)

Surely sqaure and rectangle (and parallelogram) subclass a more fundamental 
four-sided-shape (er, I can't believe it, but I've forgotten the name for 
them ;)? They impose their own constraints on the four-sided-shape, given it 
has side lengths and angles between the sides.

Right, back to doing other slask-Sunday stuff now ;)


    Richard



From pj at sgi.com  Thu Mar  7 19:34:43 2002
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 00:34:43 GMT
Subject: [OT] range() for unix shell
References: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015542375.17702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a690v3$hbjk2$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

The following patch fixes a couple of typos
in the above range() command:

--- range.py.orig	Thu Mar  7 16:33:01 2002
+++ range.py	Thu Mar  7 16:31:57 2002
@@ -13,7 +13,7 @@
   In first case, low == 0 is implied
   If no step size is given, 1 is assumed
 """
-    exit
+    sys.exit(1)
 
 low = 0
 step = 1
@@ -27,6 +27,6 @@
     high = int(sys.argv[2])
     step = int(sys.argv[3])
 else:
-    usage
+    usage()
 
 print string.join(map(str, range(low, high, step)))

-- 
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Programmer, Linux Scalability
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 13:41:29 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 18:41:29 GMT
Subject: Python Web Programming Book?
References: <mailman.1017219892.5320.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3af0.g1f.alf@sagittarius.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <a7t3op$skv$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <slrnaa3af0.g1f.alf at sagittarius.logilab.fr>, 
  Alexandre Fayolle wrote:

> Simon Brunning wrote:
  
>> Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming" sounds *exactly* right for 
>> you - it covers web programming (both client & server side) *and* 
>> database programming in some depth.

> +1 ! Excellent book.

> Alexandre Fayolle

 I'm guessing that you're preparing to teach classes in Python
 Web Programming.  Based on that assumption:

 Yes.  I would skip Lutz and stick with Steve Holden (who has
 brief but well written introductory chapters before focusing
 on web programming.  Steve's book also has some coverage of Zope,
 though you might add _The_Zope_Book_ from No Starch Press.

 Echoing another response to this message I'd recommend that 
 students also get Beazeley's Essential Reference.



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 06:34:38 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:34:38 -0000
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org> <slrna9haud.e6b.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3bi8.lam.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <slrna9haud.e6b.akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org>, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Quixote turns the idea of templating on its head and embeds HTML in
> Python code.  Section 4 of
> http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/mx-architecture/ talks about why this
> turns out to be a really good idea.

... and 'jonpy' avoids the issue entirely by neither embedding Python
in HTML or HTML in Python. Its templating system embeds *no code of
any sort* in the HTML and this turns out to be completely super ;-).
See http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/wt-examples.html#templatecode for
examples.

This is especially useful when you have different people generating
the HTML and the code (as it almost always the case). The designer is
much less likely to mangle the 'significant' parts of the HTML files,
and even if they do, it's a matter of seconds to fix. Additionally,
when the customer says "actually, we don't like the style of the site,
we want it changed" and you get sent a whole bunch of new code-less
HTML files, with a PHP-style code-in-HTML you pretty much have to
reimplement the entire site from scratch, whereas with this system you
just add back in the section markers and the code (which was in
separate files anyway) does not usually need to be changed at all.

Cheers


Jon


From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Tue Mar 26 19:04:56 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:04:56 +0100
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee>
Message-ID: <3CA10CA8.DFF48898@gmx.de>

I?m writing a diploma paper on rapid prototyping and python at education.
I am interested in your experiences with python, too, including the time you
needed to learn python.

- Do YOU think, it is more easy to learn python than perl, java or C++  or
..... ?
- What do you think about the syntax of Python? Is it easy to use, or do you
have any problems with it?
- Is here anybody who learned Python as first language?
- Where do you see disadvantages of Python?

Ingo




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Mar 11 05:20:07 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:20:07 +0000
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
Message-ID: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi all,

Found the following link on comp.lang.tcl. A bit long, but worth reading...

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3B40A4A7.6E39BD%40brad-aisa.com&rnum=1

Regards,
 - eric -



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Mar  1 08:53:31 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 14:53:31 +0100
Subject: Trouble importing / using a custom text codec
References: <9ac02e81.0202280152.5bb1bf25@posting.google.com> <j4r8n5fxfx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <9ac02e81.0203010508.4ebccd75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4it8gcs2s.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jhorneman at pobox.com (Jurie Horneman) writes:

> What is a .pth file?

See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-site.html

Regards,
Martin


From rstephens at vectron.com  Fri Mar  1 09:14:48 2002
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 06:14:48 -0800
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
Message-ID: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com>

I am thinking of buying a "home" license of Black Adder, to use for
making GUI's for Python programs to be used on Linux+KDE and also
perhaps for the new Sharp Zaurus. Does anyone have any experience with
Black Adder that they can share? One of my main reasons for wanting
Black Adder is to use the GUI builder, so I am particualrly interested
in opinions about that aspect of Black Adder, but I am also interested
in other aspects as well.

One question I have concerns licensing. If I buy the "home" version,
could I still share my programs as GPL'ed open source, or would that
require me to buy the "professional" license, which is much more
expensive? In other words, my programs would never be used in any
commercial way but I might want to post them as open source, free 
software.

I know Black Adder is still in beta, but is it stable enoough to use
already? I suppose I should ask how it compares to PythonWare amd
WingIDE, but I kind of favor the PyQt toolkit becuase it will
hopefully work well on the Sharp Zaurus as well as the KDE desktop.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 11 12:59:25 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:59:25 GMT
Subject: lambda question
References: <mailman.1015866267.21439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1g6j8.24364$n4.4758442@newsc.telia.net>

lambda questionAlves, Carlos Alberto wrote:

> first code:
>         f='x**3+2*x'
>         list=[0,1,2,0]
>         map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
>
> second code:
>
>         def exe1(f,list):
>                 return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
>
> Can someone explain to me why the first code works while
> second doesn't.

because you're running under Python 2.1 or earlier, and
haven't read up on Python's LGB scoping rules?

if so, the following should do the trick:

    def exe1(f,list):
        return map(lambda x,list=list:eval(f),list)

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Mar  6 21:21:14 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:21:14 -0800
Subject: getting number of arguments of builtin/C func
In-Reply-To: <Xns91CA20313D78Dcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <007701c1c57e$c168b320$445d4540@Dell2>

Chris Liechti wrote:

> i know these two:
> >>>numArgs = func.func_code.co_argcount
> >>>func.func_code.co_varnames[:numArgs]
> 
> >>>apply(inspect.formatargspec, inspect.getargspec(f))
> 
> both only work for python functions, but i would like to know the
> number of arguments a function takes regardles if its a type, builtin
> or python func.

There is no general way to determine the number of arguments that a
C-implemented function requires. 

> any ideas appart from calling with zero args and parsing the
> exception string (scanning: "TypeError: f() takes exactly 2 arguments
> (0 given)") ...

That would you do if you encountered an exception like this:
"TypeError: open() takes at least 1 argument (0 given)"? And what if
calling the function without arguments does something bad?

Cheers,
Brian




From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar  4 17:02:14 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:02:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015231327.3586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna87rhs.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:41:07 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
>On boxes with this problem, I'm also curious what
>
>import math
>print math.pow(1e-200, 2.0)
>
>does under 2.1.  


Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 28 2002, 16:44:48) 
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import math
>>> print math.pow(1e-200, 2.0)
0.0
>>> 1e-200**2.0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')
>>> 1e-200**2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')


Python 2.1 (#1, Oct  2 2001, 15:35:43) 
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import math
>>> print math.pow(1e-200, 2.0)
0.0
>>> 1e-200**2.0
0.0
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0


Huaiyu





From nospam at bigfoot.com  Tue Mar  5 16:29:58 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:29:58 +0100
Subject: Updating Python...Newbie alert!
References: <n3ah8.112697$Hu6.28510292@typhoon.neo.rr.com> <Xns91C8E16569949cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <a63cus$275o$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Or you can replace "make install" by "make altinstall" if you want to keep
Python 1.5.2 as default python (perhaps you got compiled extensions like
database or GUI adaptors).
Then you need to run your new python distro with "python2.2" command.

"Chris Liechti" <cliechti at gmx.net> a ?crit dans le message news:
Xns91C8E16569949cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82...
> "Mr.Lee" <mrlee at davesupply.com> wrote in news:n3ah8.112697
> $Hu6.28510292 at typhoon.neo.rr.com:
> > Hi all,
> >         Being quite new to Linux, I am having a bit of a problem
> > when it comes to updating my installed version of Python(1.5.2) to
> > the version that I have now(2.2).
> >         My problem is that I compiled Python in the directory that
> > I  downloaded and now I don't know where to put all of the files
> > that were generated!  It works, I ran the tests and it all came out
> > fine, but I just don't know where to put the files for maximum
> > efficiency.
>
> usualy one does "./configure;make;make install" and the "make
> install" places the files where they belong (in subdirectories of
> /usr/local/ usualy)
>
> chris
>
> --
> Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>
>




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar  7 21:08:12 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:08:12 +1300
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.1015496653.15042.python-list@python.org> <TXLh8.15020$N7.3388991@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.1015545375.27073.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C881D0C.8CBD1CB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Marco Herrn wrote:
> 
> If a have a method with the defininion 'f(self)' I call this method only
> with 'f()'. So the declaration doesn't look the same like the call.

There are times where you *do* explicitly pass
in self, mainly when calling inherited methods,
e.g.

  class C(D):
    def __init__(self):
      ...
      D.__init__(self) # Initialise my base class
      ...

So if "self" were implicit, then *this* would be
a case where the call didn't match the definition.
You can't win!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From cmbardon at engmail.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Mar 21 02:21:31 2002
From: cmbardon at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Bardon)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 23:21:31 -0800
Subject: Problem with Python Extensions
Message-ID: <5c2b81.0203202321.50bf8908@posting.google.com>

If anyone could help me with this problem it would be greatly
appreciated:

I'm trying to write a simple Python extension for use in Truespace
4.3.  At this point, I'm just trying to assess what can be done with
it, so I'd like to be able to start with an example that just returns
a value.  The problem is, my extension crashes truespace whenever I
try to import it.  I've created the dll using MS Visual C++ 6 and
Python 1.5-I've also included the source for the dll below (like I
said-starting simple).  When I try to import this into truspace's
python interface (import CommExt), the script causes an invalid page
exception in MFC42.DLL.  I'm linking this against python15.lib, as
obtained from python.org.

If anyone has had a similar problem, or can see from my source what my
problem might be, your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris Bardon


//CommExt.cpp
//Another stab at making a truespace extension

#include "Python.h"

PyObject* comm(PyObject *self, PyObject *args);

static PyMethodDef commMethods[] =
{
  {"comm", comm, 1},
  {NULL,      NULL}        /* Sentinel */

};

static PyObject *CommExtError;

extern "C"__declspec(dllexport) void initCommExt()
{
	Py_InitModule("CommExt", commMethods);  //this is the line that
crashes TS!
}


PyObject* comm(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
	int result=42;
	return Py_BuildValue("i", result);
}


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 15:06:54 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: __abs(self)__?
In-Reply-To: <f3Qf8.2391$26.139172@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020301120654.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 01-Mar-2002 Mike Carifio wrote:
> I'm reading about special method names. __abs__(self), which maps to the
> abs() method seems unneccessary(?).
> So:
> 
> class ExampleNumber:
>     def __init__(self, initializer):
>         self.value = initializer
>     def __abs__(self):
>         return abs(self.value)
> 
>>>> x = ExampleNumber(-1)
>>>> x.abs()
> 1
> 
> seems no different from:
> 
> class ExampleNumber:
>     def __init__(self, initializer):
>         self.value = initializer
>     def abs(self):   # name isn't special?
>         return abs(self.value)
> 
> abs is a builtin function, so why do I need a special name for a function?
> I'm missing something...
> 

the __foo__ method names are special because you do not call them directly
(usually) rather they are triggered when a request is made.

__abs__() causes the object to return a value that represents the absolute
value of the object's data, whatever that means.

abs(obj) translates into obj.__abs__().  This is just like 'print obj' calling
obj.__str__() or 'obj[i]' calling obj.__getitem__(i).



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 10 16:17:01 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:17:01 -0500
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
In-Reply-To: <m3henoqh5u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDHODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Pearu Peterson]
> Is there a way to disable all assert statements inside a module,
> and without calling python with -O switch?

[Martin v. Loewis]
> You can set __debug__ to 0 on the module level; this will disable
> assert statements inside this module.

Note that assignment to __debug__ was deprecated in 2.1:

    SyntaxWarning: can not assign to __debug__

and removed in 2.2:

    SyntaxError: can not assign to __debug__

-O is the only way left.  Guido often writes code under the control of an
explicit "debug" vrbl instead.  A more flexible way to control asserts would
be (IMO) prime PEP material (as a heavy assert user myself, I sympathize
with Pearu's dilemma -- "all or nothing everywhere" is too crude for large
projects with many subsystems).




From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 13:23:42 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (Richard Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:23:42 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
In-Reply-To: <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>       
 <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>       
 <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]>
 <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <p0510143cb8b7ec8f8ea1@[134.9.17.165]>

That's a good point.  My actual problem turns out that I had the 
first two parameters to select.select() reversed, though.  :-|

At 10:57 AM -0600 3/15/02, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Rich> I don't really need select to block.  I just want it to be
>     Rich> accurate.  If it returns a file object in the list of things which
>     Rich> are available, why should then readline() block on it?
>
>Remember that select() is lower level than readline().  As someone else
>pointed out, select() may return because there is data available, but it
>makes no promises about what that data is.  Calling readline() may then hang
>waiting for other conditions (presence of a newline in the input, for
>example).
>
>--
>Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)


-- 



From john at ecsc.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 04:16:11 2002
From: john at ecsc.co.uk (John Leach)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:16:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: os.fchown, avoiding a race condition
Message-ID: <a7s2kr$ds0$1@knossos.btinternet.com>

Hi,

I haven't managed to find any reference in python (any version) to the
unix system call fchown (SVr4, SVID, POSIX, X/OPEN).  There is chown, but
not fchown.

I'd like to create a file as a different user but would like to avoid a
race condition by chowning via the file descriptor, but it seems I cannot.

Does anyone know why this seems to be missing?  Any plans for it to
appear?  Any other way I can do this?

Thanks in advance.

-John.


--
http://people.ecsc.co.uk/~john
GPG: B89C D450 5B2C 74D8 58FB  A360 9B06 B5C2 26F0 3047


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 09:15:04 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:15:04 -0600
Subject: Pure python alternative to mx.DateTime?
In-Reply-To: <a76u45$2iro$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de>
References: <a76u45$2iro$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de>
Message-ID: <15511.18408.245358.647371@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Lutz> Unfortunately I'm in need of some simple time and date
    Lutz> calculations (ISO-time, how many days from now, weekdays, etc.).

    Lutz> Is there any alternative to mx without inventing the wheel for the
    Lutz> second time and programming it by myself?

There's Jeff Bauer's NormalDate module:

    http://starship.python.net/crew/jbauer/normaldate/index.html

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Fri Mar 15 16:05:04 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:05:04 +0100
Subject: Process to process synchronization (unix)
Message-ID: <a6tn83$nh6$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi,

I have a Zope application and another running process (in python too).
I need to transmit data and signal (hey ! data available, do your job !) in
an asynchronous way from the Zope app (in an external method) to the python
running process (that runs for another user).
The other process waits for the signal, takes given data, does the jobs and
waits further signal (...)
I'm 99.9% newbie in process to process communication.
What packages are helpful for this ?
Any examples ?

Thanks in advance.

--Gillou




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar  7 17:48:08 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 22:48:08 GMT
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
References: <mailman.1015521268.15406.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a68qn8$33b$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:24 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Piet van Oostrum]
>> ...
>> In fact python's regular expressions are a little bit stronger than
>> the theoretical ones because of the allowed \n constructs, but still
>> can't count.
>
>If you're into this kind of thing, doing a google search on
>
>    "regular expression" "NP complete"
>
>turns up several linear-time reductions transforming NP-complete problems
>into matching-with-backreferences problems.  IOW, adding backreferences to
>theoretical regexps turns the regexp matching problem from polynomial time
>into "almost certainly" exponential time.  In that sense, backreferences add
>enormous power.  But counting is *really* hard <wink>.
>
With some limitations (use triple quotes for less limitation on input), how about:

 >>> s = "A line of text with {multiple and {nested} braces} to {confuse} re!"
 >>> sl = eval('["'+'"], "'.join('", ["'.join(s.split('{')).split('}'))+'"]')
 >>> sl
 ['A line of text with ', ['multiple and ', ['nested'], ' braces'], ' to ', ['confuse'], ' re!']

then walk the tree as desired.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ben at wintersun.org  Mon Mar 25 17:43:36 2002
From: ben at wintersun.org (Ben Caradoc-Davies)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:43:36 GMT
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9va0o.13a.ben@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:16:49 +0100, Gilles Diribarne <gdiribarne at udcast.com> 
wrote:
> 1/ Because it's almost impossible to paste python code with ident = n 
> spaces to another code with indent = m spaces

"Four was the number of their indenting, and the number of their indenting was
four." -- The Book of Armaments (and the Python Style Guide).

Use automated tools to migrate all your code to four-space indenting.

All coders should conform to

    http://www.python.org/doc/essays/styleguide.html

I was once a two-space indenter, but now I'm Saved.

> This kind of examples occurs more and more and you can indent the code 
> by hand when it's 10 lines of codes, but not 1000 code lines.
> It prevents the re-use of code pieces.

Ack! That's not reuse. That's insanity! Write once and reuse with import. The
Great Satan of software development is code duplication, because all your bugs
are duplicated, as is the work for any redesign. You are doing something wrong.
Abstraction is your only tool to control complexity (other than avoiding
complexity in the first place).

> 2/ Programmers wants independence: some wants to manage building blocks 
> with spaces, other with tabs, some wants length = 4 with tabs.
> I would like to use my own programming style! But, my code risks to be 
> not supported by others.

Your job "risks to be not supported by" your employer. Programmers who want
independence must expect to support their own code, alone.

Frankly, one of the biggest problems preventing code reuse is the mess some
programmers make: other programmers would rather rewrite the code than try to
understand or debug the exisiting code. A consistent style and complete,
correct, in-code documentation (literate programming) helps to encourage reuse.

There's plenty of damage to be done at the higher structural level design/API
without stooping to micro-level style inconsistency.

> 3/ A large number of programming language use this. C, PERL, Ruby, ...
> Why not Python?

Because of crimes committed against legibility by those other languages.

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben at wintersun.org>
http://wintersun.org/


From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sun Mar 31 13:14:07 2002
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:14:07 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA751EF.10F25F2D@ndh.net>

> I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
> a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.
> [...]
> Review
> 
>     Dear reviewers:
> 
>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
> 
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

I'm -1 on this PEP.

To summarize: The problem I have with this proposal is that it does a
half-hearted job (and can only do so because of backward compatibility
issues).

I think it's a bad deal to get

>         >>> a > b
>         True
>         >>>

but on the other hand have to keep in mind subtle interactions between
bools and ints. For example, I consider it very unintutive that
"True == 1" should by true but "True == 2" should be false. I
understand well that this is for backward compatibility, i. e. not
breaking code that uses "boolean" results to calculate something
together with numbers.

There are, as pointed out, too much cases where bool/int interactions
lead to surprises because the behaviour of the bool type does not live
up to its abstract concept that it should have. This is confusing; in
effect one would have to think _more_ whether the code does what is
should. If one deals with ints _explicitly_, calculation outcomes are
much easier to see.

Regarding special uses such as RPC and databases it would suffice to
add a "boolean" module to the standard library. This would offer a
standard way to handle a boolean type for these special purposes,
wouldn't it?

So, in my opinion the disadvantages strongly outweigh the benefits of
the PEP.

Additionally, the PEP brings some more design ambiguity which I
dislike. Should my function/method return 0, None, - or False, in a
specific case? Having to make this decision reminds me at the choice
of defining an attribute as "protected" vs. "private", or using
"virtual" or not, in C++. Sometimes, I would like to postpone
decisions until later. This thinking is in line with the earlier post
in which someone said that "it's not unusual for an integer meaning
true or false to become a 'level' variable".

_If_ the PEP is accepted (which I do not hope), I would prefer ...

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

str(True) should be "1" (because of the arguments of Marc-Andre
Lemburg; some applications actually might make use of this
representation).

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).

"True" and "False"

>     Most other details of the proposal are pretty much forced by the
>     backwards compatibility requirement; e.g. True == 1 and
>     True+1 == 2 must hold, else reams of existing code would break.
> 
>     Minor additional issues:
> 
>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>        me.

Not to me, despite its convenience. As the name suggests, isleap should
return a bool. But then, it shouldn't be added to an int. A solution
to resolve this would be to change the name of isleap.

>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.

operator.truth(x) should return a bool.

Stefan


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 14 23:54:47 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:54:47 -0500
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> 
> I have a free software program (http://sf.net/projects/bttotalcontrol/) and
> I am having great difficulty writing an installation script for windows.
> 
> I don't want to use distutils because I am not writing a module - but an
> entire distribution with images, data files, and executable programs. I
> would like to put icons on the desktop and stuff in the start menu as well.
> 
> I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows
> machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a few
> people who actively test for the project at home.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on where I should go? Anyone can help me out
> here?

Why not find and use one of the several free installer programs, rather
than trying to write something from scratch yourself?

For example, try looking at google with "free windows installers" and 
follow the first link you find.

-Peter


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 08:42:20 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:42:20 -0000
Subject: beginner
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCEAB@intrepid>

> From:	Ken?z Attila [SMTP:attila-kenez at vnet.hu]
> I am a beginner using Python and I have two problems.
> 
> I would like two write an installer program in Python, that works on any
> computer with Wondow OS, so that is not nesseccary to have Python
> interpreter on it. Is there a simple (or a difficult) way to do it?
 
I use a combination of py2exe
(<http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/>), which builds an exe
file from a Python script, and Inno setup
(<http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php>), which builds a setup for your new
exe.

There are alternatives to both of these, but they work for me.
 
> The other question is about pyd files. I did not found any mention about
> it
> in the documentation. I want to access a database under SAP DB from
> Python,
> and for that I need to use the sapdb.pyd file. I tried to move it to a
> directory in PATH and PYTHONPATH but the interpreter dropped an error at
> the
> import statement. How I have to use these kind of files?
 
A plain old import should work if the pyd is in your PYTHONPATH. It would be
useful to see the error message, but my first guess is that you have the
wrong version of the pyd file - under windows, they are specific to a Python
release. If you have Python 2.2, and the pyd was compiled for 2.1, it
wouldn't work.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Tue Mar 26 07:56:37 2002
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:56:37 +0100
Subject: forgetting state
References: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com> <cadr9u8ga972iieh0naiubrde1isultk99@4ax.com> <Ieun8.7808$8r.7426@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> <k8gv9u46g68gnihomcfhf0eqiq5co77cvr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a7pm30$gqo$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>

Dale Strickland-Clark schrieb in Nachricht ...
>If you're debugging a program and execution stops at some point, for
>any reason, you don't want to have to completely leave your
>development environment and restart it just so you can run from the
>beginning again.
>
Exactly. But I always thought this sort of problem only crops up when I
import module A into script B and then change module A and rerun script B.

But now I had a script importing nothing at all. It stopped with an
exception, I corrected the fault - and got the same exception, citing the
old code which wasn't in the script any more! Looks as if the corrected
script wasn't read at all - but even on Windows Python isn't a human too
lazy to read a letter to the end (or so I thought).

IDE was Pythonwin.

Koczian

---
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek , Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE





From kare at speech.kth.se  Wed Mar 20 06:47:13 2002
From: kare at speech.kth.se (Kare Sjolander)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:47:13 +0100
Subject: Q: Sound production with python?
References: <Xns91D77C5869670AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3C9876C1.F08DF2C6@speech.kth.se>

Using Snack (http://www.speech.kth.se/snack) you would use the following
commands to generate a note sequence.

from Tkinter import *
from tkSnack import *

root = Tkinter.Tk()
initializeSnack(root)

s = Sound()
filt = Filter('generator', 440, 30000, 0.0, 'sine', 8000)

def beep(freq):
   filt.configure(freq)
   s.play(filter=filt,blocking=1)

beep(261.6)
beep(293.7)
beep(329.7)
beep(349.3)

This should get you started
Kare

"A.Newby" wrote:

> Being a beginner fiddle player, as well as a beginner python programmer, I
> want to write a little prog that trains the sense of pitch.
>
> How envisage it working is thus...
>
> It plays a simple 4 note melody, then repeats the melody with one of the
> notes (selected randomly) slightly off pitch ... say by 20% or 10% or 5%.
> The user then has to detect which note was off.
>
> What modules and commands should I use to generate this sounds? What's the
> best way to go about it?
>
> --
> cdewin at dingoblue.net.au



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 17:10:04 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:10:04 -0500
Subject: [XP] Code Complete: Things were Scary Back Then
References: <mailman.1017434688.14396.python-list@python.org> <3CA4E5F5.70B5A7E5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4E63C.300E9DC7@engcorp.com>

Oops.. sorry, I didn't notice David had warped us away from
comp.software.extreme-programming...


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 16:29:34 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:29:34 +0000
Subject: ANN: IPython 0.2.8
Message-ID: <a76et9$gdo$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Announcing an update to IPython, an enhanced interactive Python shell. 

WHERE: http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython

NEW since last public release (ChangeLog included with full details):

- Full Emacs integration. Now IPython can be used both in Emacs shell/term 
buffers and also as your Python interpreter (with C-c !). Instructions on the 
necessary code for your .emacs file provided.

- Interface to the Gnuplot plotting system. This can be used as a template 
for interfacing with any other program which one can communicate with (via 
pipes, sockets, whatever).

- Many improvements to the embedding facilities. It's now possible to have 
nested copies of IPython running (such as debugging code with embedded 
IPython inside IPython itself). Global and local locks for the embedded 
instances provided to control them better.

- User controllable prompt system. Particularly useful for using IPython as 
an embedded interpreter for other code.

- Improved macro system for automatically re-executing many lines of previous 
input.

- Small updates for better behavior under Python 2.2 (only 2.1 required)

- Improved manual, now @magic system is fully documented.

- Simplified Windows installation.

- Better control for running other programs inside IPython via @run.

- New -upgrade command line option for old users to update their .ipython/ 
directory automatically.

- Improvements to auto-completion code. Also made readline an option (not 
using it disables completion, of course).

- New paging system (for viewing long strings and files) is now OS 
independent.

- Many small bugfixes.


WHAT is IPython? (this is just for context. See the webpage for full 
details). IPython tries to:

1. Provide an interactive interpreter superior to Python's default. IPython 
has many features for object introspection, shell access, and its own special 
command system for adding functionality when working interactively.

2. Serve as an embeddable, ready to use interpreter for your own programs. 
IPython can be started with a single call from inside another program, 
providing access to the current namespace. This can be very useful both for 
debugging purposes and for situations where a blend of batch-processing and 
interactive exploration are needed.

3. Offer a flexible framework which can be used as the base environment for 
other systems with Python as the underlying language. Specifically scientific 
environments like Mathematica, IDL and Matlab inspired its design, but 
similar ideas can be useful in many fields.


Portability: Linux (and other unices, including Mac OSX), Windows XP. Should 
run fine on all WinNT, and probably also on Win9x (I can't test that).

Python version: requires 2.1 or newer.

License: LGPL (a few files from third parties carry MIT licenses).

Cheers,

Fernando Perez.



From sam_collett at lycos.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 06:51:06 2002
From: sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 03:51:06 -0800
Subject: Python Classes
References: <2030665d.0203070226.46b39af4@posting.google.com> <a67gal$c2a$1@mail1.wg.waii.com>
Message-ID: <2030665d.0203080351.1682b6fc@posting.google.com>

I have modified the code as follows (may wrap):

class clFile:
    def __init__(self,path_to_file):
        self.f = path_to_file
        self.exists = os.path.exists(self.f)
        if self.exists == 0:
            return None

    def getFileName(self,blnExt=None):
        """
        blnExt = show file extension (put in value other than 0 or
None to show the extension)
        """
        if blnExt:
            result = os.path.basename(self.f)
        else:
            result = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(self.f))[0]
        return result

    def getFileExt(self):
        result = os.path.splitext(self.f)[1]
        return result

    def getDir(self):
        result = os.path.dirname(self.f)
        return result

    def getSize(self):
        
        size = int(os.path.getsize(self.f))
        if size < 3072: #<3kb
            return "%db" % size
        elif size < 2097152: #<2mb
            return "%.2fkb" % (size/1024.)
        else: #>2mb
            return "%.2fmb" % (size/1048576.)

    def modified(self):
            import time
            return time.strftime('%d/%m/%Y;
%I:%M%p',time.gmtime(os.path.getmtime(self.f)))

What I want to do is if the file does not exist to return nothing or
an error. I thought the following code would work, but it didn't. How
could I get it to work?

self.exists = os.path.exists(self.f)
    if self.exists == 0:
        return None

Martin Franklin <martin.franklin at westerngeco.com> wrote in message news:<a67gal$c2a$1 at mail1.wg.waii.com>...
> Sam Collett wrote:
> 
> > I am quite new to Python and have no experience with classes. I have
> > tried a file class, but I am not sure how to get it to work:
> > 
> > class clFile(file):
> >     
> >     def getFileName(blnExt=None):
> >         """
> >         file = path to file
> >         blnExt = show file extension (put in value other than 0 or
> > None to show the extension)
> >         """
> >         import os
> >         if blnExt:
> >             result = os.path.basename(file)
> >         else:
> >             result = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(file))[0]
> >         del os
> >         return result
> > 
> >     def getFileExt():
> >         import os.path
> >         result = os.path.splitext(file)[1]
> >         del os
> >         return result
> > 
> >     def getDir():
> >         import os
> >         result = os.path.dirname(file)
> >         del os
> >         return result
> > 
> > I wondered if there was a way to do something like the following:
> > 
> > myfile = clFile("c:\\somedir\\dir with spaces\\foo.txt")
> > myfile.getDir would return c:\somedir\dir with spaces\
> > myfile.getFileExt would return .txt
> > myfile.getFileName would return foo.txt or foo
> 
> Ok try this to get you working:
> import os # do this at the top....
> 
> class clFile:
>     def __init__(self, file):
>         # constructor called when you create an instance (object) of this 
> class
>         self.file=file 
>         # self.file instance variable bound to file object
>         #(in this case the file name passed to the class constructor)
>         
>     def getFileName(self, blnExt=None):
>         # return filename with or without the extension..
>         if blnExt:
>             result = os.path.basename(self.file)
>         else:
>             result = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(self.file))[0]
>         return result
>     
>     def getFileExt(self):
>         # return file extension
>         return os.path.splitext(self.file)[1]
>     
>     
>     def getDir(self):
>         # return the file basname (directory/folder)
>         return os.path.dirname(self.file)
>        
>          
>          
> # now for testing.....
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     clf=clFile('/home/bpse/crapola.bot') # create an instance of clFile
>     
>     # call it's methods....
>     
>     print clf.getFileExt() 
>     print clf.getFileName(blnExt=1)    
>     print clf.getFileName()
>     print clf.getDir()
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should really work your way through the tutorial (at least the classes 
> bit) on:-
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Mar 17 15:08:08 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:08:08 -0500
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones>
 <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
 <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com>
 <just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <oePl8kKkX4hO092yn@gnosis.cx>                

| danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote:
|> Even for complex numbers, for which "less than or greater than" is
|> meaningless?

Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> wrote previously:
|It doesn't have that meaning for me anymore, it simple means "not equal"
|to me. It is an abstract symbol. I really don't believe we can discuss
|this on any other level than "I prefer x because I'm used to it"...

In the end, Just is right.  People get used to different things.

Nonetheless, I think of the natural language semantics of the
symbols--or maybe better "insinuations"--prefers '<>' to '!='.  The
(good) one suggests "is greater than or less than (but not equal to)".
I know that not everything is technically in an order relation, but it
still "makes sense" at a first approximation.  The (bad) one looks like
some odd sort of augmented assignment.  "Hmmm... assign, what?  The
negation of the right side to the left side?!  The LHS negated with the
RHS?!"

But then, I wrote virtually the same thing a few months ago, in almost
the same thread.  And I probably will again in six months.  And despite
my feeling on the "principle of least surprise", I don't have any real
trouble reading code that uses '!='.

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/




From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 09:45:35 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:45:35 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a69lml$b2v$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <j84i8.2776$Ni.254846@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:a69lml$b2v$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:54:29 +1300, Greg Ewing
<greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> >Even something like q'delim' doesn't allow you to
> >easily use completely arbitrary text, because you
> >still have to pick *some* string that doesn't occur
> >in the text. Although you don't have to modify the
> >text, you do have to inspect it in order to choose
> >a suitable delimiter.

> Unless you choose one with vanishingly small probability
> of being included, like a generated guid.

This was Guido's intention when he choose triple quotes and I think he
did excellently well.  I don't believe I had even seen """ and quite
possibly not ''' ever before learning Python.  I do know that I found
""" to be quite jarring, as if I have never seen it before.

> A smart editor could do this for you.

A smart editor could also scan for triple quotes in pasted text and
select one that was not found as the enclosing quotes and do the octal
quoting fixup if both were.

Terry J. Reedy





From wlashell at outsourcefinancial.com  Mon Mar  4 11:57:06 2002
From: wlashell at outsourcefinancial.com (Will LaShell)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 09:57:06 -0700
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
In-Reply-To: <3C82F708.70303@mishre.com>
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com>
	<3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk>
	<mailman.1015085345.6196.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns91C68AFA9D232andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.104> 
	<3C82F708.70303@mishre.com>
Message-ID: <1015261027.7978.5.camel@lyric.ofsloans.com>

<SNIP>
> 
> Anyone out there have recommendations on a good IDE with form designer, 
> that's not Beta?  Nothing too fancy...I've tried wxDesigner, but 
> couldn't figure out that spacer stuff for the life of me.


I don't know if you have considered this, but a really excellent tool
for gui building is glade. You save the gui into a .glade file and use
pylibglade to load it into your program. 

It allows a really interesting seperation between your processing code
and the gui code.

Obviously you still need a good editor, and they aren't integrated, but
you were asking for options, and this is a pretty decent one. We use
this system here at work.

> 
> Wayne
> 
> -- 
> Wayne Pierce
> web: http://www.mishre.com
> email: wayne at mishre.com
> 
> "What you need to know."





From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 29 13:13:53 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 19:13:53 +0100
Subject: Executing a specific function.
In-Reply-To: <3CA4A04A.F37DD1D9@amtec.com>
References: <mailman.1017416746.18302.python-list@python.org>
	<m3eli3wc7p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<3CA4A04A.F37DD1D9@amtec.com>
Message-ID: <m3zo0rutr2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Michael Saunders <michael at amtec.com> writes:

> I had seen this API but it requires a "callable". Isn't a callable a
> PyObject pointer to a callable function?

Correct. It could be anything callable, though: a class, a type, an
instance with an __call__ method, any other object with a tp_call
slot.

> How do I build the "callable". All I have is a Python file,
> "myfile.py" and the name of a function to call "myPthonFunction".

Always think of how to write things in Python, then translate to
C. Everything you can do in Python can be (more or less) literally
translated.

In the specific case, I'd guess you'll do

import myfile
result = myfile.myPythonFunction()

Translating this to C, you'll do:

module = PyImport_Import("myfile");
result = PyObject_CallMethod(module, "myPythonFunction", "");

Don't forget to check for exceptions! If you would not have
PyObject_CallMethod, you would do

function = PyObject_GetAttrString(module, "myPythonFunction");
result = PyObject_CallFunction(function, "");

In C, you can do things that you can't, directly, do from Python.
E.g. if you can't guarantee that myfile is on sys.path, there is no
need to add it to sys.path - just use one of the functions that create
modules from source code.

HTH,
Martin



From paul at boddie.net  Wed Mar 13 06:31:03 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 03:31:03 -0800
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <a6mpda$79e$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a6mpda$79e$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>...
> James A Roush wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have any code that, given that absolute URL of a web page, can
> > convert all the relative URLs on that page to their absolute equivalent?
> 
> Assuming absolute is a string and relative_list a list of strings, the 
> followinng comes to mind:
> 
> [absolute+'/'+relative for relative in relative_list]
> 
> Maybe you wanted something fancier, don't know.

I suppose it would be nicer or more appropriate to deal with "back
references" as well as being able to detect "base" elements. For
example, given the following "base"...

  http://www.python.org/invented/framework/demo/

...and the following URLs...

  moreinfo.html
  docs.html
  ../apps.html
  ../../stuff.html
  /index.html
  http://www.zope.org

...one would want to remove certain parts of the "base" before
concatenating the relative URLs to it. Thus, we would produce these
absolute URLs:

  http://www.python.org/invented/framework/demo/moreinfo.html
  http://www.python.org/invented/framework/demo/docs.html
  http://www.python.org/invented/framework/apps.html
  http://www.python.org/invented/stuff.html
  http://www.python.org/index.html
  http://www.zope.org

I'm not so sure that urllib supports such operations, at least not in
any version of it that I have (from Python 2.0 or 2.1). Instead,
there's some fairly low-level split operations which aren't especially
useful in this case. In addition, you might need to use some parser to
get hold of any "base" elements in the HTML.

I've written some page-mining tools which help with these kinds of
activities, and I suppose I should get round to releasing them at some
point. Let me know if you're interested!

Paul


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 19 01:33:08 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:33:08 GMT
Subject: Serial Ports
References: <3c96c220$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <3C96DBB0.1070402@skippinet.com.au>

Jamie Carl wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>     I'm still fairly new to Python so forgive me.  I'm hoping someone can
> point in the right direction regarding how I would go about accessing a
> serial com port from Python.  I'd like to do it mainly under Linux, but
> hopefully it will work under windows aswell.
> 
> Is it possible?  Can someone point me to some documentation or code samples?
> 

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+serial+port

Mark.



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 07:35:04 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:35:04 +0000
Subject: Gentle reminder for Python UK Conference, April 4 & 5.
References: <1015238517.16564.0.nnrp-01.c1c3e191@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1CjMnIA4n2g8EwPZ@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <1015238517.16564.0.nnrp-01.c1c3e191 at news.demon.co.uk>, Paul
Brian <paul1brian at yahoo.com> writes
.....
>If that does not convince you, try advice from Mrs Doyle (Father Ted and the
>Inland Revenue) :
>
>"Ah, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on"
>
.....
this must be ironic as apparently the number of tax non replies has
increased by some significant fraction and this is the most despised ad
campaign of 2001.
-Anarchic-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl  Mon Mar  4 06:28:17 2002
From: m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl (marcin andrzejewski)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:28:17 +0100
Subject: problem with locale
Message-ID: <a5vlnp$mmk$1@news.tpi.pl>

everything works fine in IDLE, but when running as script, i 've got
following error:

import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
a= locale.format ('%.2f',-100000.236,1)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "locale.py", line 1, in ?
    import locale
  File "locale.py", line 2, in ?
    locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'setlocale'
>Exit code: 1

what's wrong ?

--
marcin andrzejewski
m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl
keson at post.pl




From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 11:57:26 2002
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 08:57:26 -0800
Subject: The Python Way
References: <mailman.1017288525.31401.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0203280857.3cc75e37@posting.google.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message > class XandY:
>     """A class to wrap x and y values.

> followed by 50 lines of unit tests to verify proper operation of the trivial
> methods.  This kind of numbing excess is self-inflicted (for a meaning of
> "self" broad enough to encompass one's employer <wink>).


Hey, that looks like java.  But-it's-encapsulated.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Mar 27 07:23:18 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 04:23:18 -0800
Subject: re.split and lookaheads
References: <pan.2002.03.26.21.18.19.527560.1295@web.de>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203270423.56488516@posting.google.com>

Morus Walter <morus.walter at web.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.03.26.21.18.19.527560.1295 at web.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to split a string into two parts using zero width record
> boundaries.
> This should be possible by using a regular expression which consists of a
> lookahead only. Unfortunately python does not split my string.
[snip] 
> If I use the same RE for searching, it matches as exepted:

This is the case with *any* zero-width pattern (as at version 2.2) --
see examples below. You should raise a documentation enhancement
request.

>>> re.split(r"\b", "abc def ghi")
['abc def ghi']
>>> re.split(r"", "abc def ghi")
['abc def ghi']
>>> re.split(r"x*", "abc def ghi")
['abc def ghi']

>>> re.sub(r"\b", "z", "abc def ghi")
'zabcz zdefz zghiz'
>>> re.sub(r"", "z", "abc def ghi")
'zazbzcz zdzezfz zgzhziz'
>>> re.sub(r"x*", "z", "abc def ghi")
'zazbzcz zdzezfz zgzhziz'
>>>


From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Mar 19 20:41:54 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 02:41:54 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) wrote in 
news:slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no:

> I know there are several solutions available for building
> standalone binary executables from Python programs (Freeze, py2exe, 
> McMillan Installer, etc.) -- I just wondered if it would be
> possible to add functionality like this to distutils? E.g. adding 
> some command (xdist, for executable, as opposed to the existing 
> bdist?)...

as i understand py2exe it does exactly that. it adds a new target 
"py2exe" so that disutils have a new target name.

i.e "python setup.py py2exe" generates the exe+dlls in the dist dir

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Fri Mar  1 08:04:44 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:04:44 -0800
Subject: newbie lists and code examples for OOP.
References: <mailman.1014975303.15829.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5n25d.3vscaqf.1@kserver.org>

On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:34:03 -0000, "skoria" <shomon at softhome.net> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1014975303.15829.python-list at python.org>:

> 
> I'm trying to write a class where one function calls a method in the
> same class. Right now I'm doing this with trial and error, and I don't
> really understand where I need to put parentheses, use (self), etc. I
> can't find any "functional" examples of object oriented programming on
> any online tutorials, or any simple programs already written that can
> be used as a good tool to figure out how to call functions within
> classes in python, when to use self.* what internal functions (like
> __init__) can be used for. Lots of theory on this, but no functional
> examples.

For one thing:
A beginner's forum would be the Tutor mailing list:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

A good reference I would recommend for the type of stuff you are asking
about:
Core Python Programming by Wesley Chun.

When to use self:

Do you want the method to be called in the following way:
object.method()

where the method is always called by an instance of the object?

Or would you like to be able to call it like this:

method()

without having to necessarily have an object to use that method?

if the former, use "self". If the latter, don't use "self".

Hope this answers some of your questions. Join the Tutor list and ask some
more. You will get some good answers.

-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/

"When introducing your puppy to an adult cat,
restrain the puppy, not the cat." -- Gwen Bailey,
_The Perfect Puppy: How to Raise a Well-behaved Dog_



From amoustafa at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 02:24:15 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:24:15 -0800
Subject: Java and Python
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A224@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <3C96E79F.4010802@pobox.com>

Delaney, Timothy wrote:

>>From: Ahmed Moustafa [mailto:amoustafa at pobox.com]
>>
>>1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
>>
> 
> Nowhere. The best place to look though is
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/Comparisons.html
> 
> which has comparisons with various languages.


I knew about those articles and I felt they were biased to Python.


> 
> 
>>2. Will Python dominate?
>>
> 
> Of course! Actually, no language will ever dominate, and Java and Python are
> not mutually exclusive (in fact, there is an implementation of Python which
> runs on top of the Java VM and has full access to all java classes, etc ...
> http://www.jython.org/.
> 
> 
>>3. Who does support Python?
>>
> 
> What type of support are you talking about? If you want commercial support,
> I think ActiveState gives it. If you are talking about who maintains and
> enhances Python, that's the Python development team in general (but with a
> lot of community involvement.


I understand Microsystems supports Java. Who does play the same role for 
Python?


> 
> If you are asking these questions to decide if you should learn Python,
> don't bother - the answer is an unqualified "yes". Python is very easy to
> learn, and will make it much easier to learn other languages. If you are
> asking to decide if you should learn either Java or Python, the answer is
> "no" - learn both. Then learn a few more languages. But Python is a great
> language to start with.


I know Java, actually, I am a Sun certified Java programmer.


> 
> Tim Delaney
> 
> 

Thanks a lot for your reply.

-- 
Ahmed Moustafa




From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar 21 16:46:13 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:46:13 GMT
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrna9kl55.rd2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000 at mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
	John J. Lee wrote:
> [OT: A question I've asked many times and got no answer to is 'why has
> nobody done self-consistent ranking for academic papers'?  I fear the

Have you seen CiteSeer, at http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs ?  It crawls
the Web for papers, and then assembles a graph of citations.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
You know, Doctor, you're quite the most infuriating man I've ever met.
    -- Jo, in "The Time Monster"


From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Mar 28 12:37:07 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:37:07 -0800
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
In-Reply-To: <3ca28aba$1@news.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2>

Shiv wrote:
> Huh! This is news to me. When did this happen? Hmm ... by the looks of
it
> and the way ActiveState seems to be neglecting things looks like there
has
> been some falling out between them ... But then I shouldn't be doing
such
> idle speculation here ...

I don't think that there was a falling out. Here is what David Ascher
said:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-December/019058.html

I was laid-off from ActiveState at the same time as Mark (and a dozen
other people) and it seemed pretty clear that the company was losing
tones of money and had to get rid of some people in order to survive. 

There was one ActivePython developer and he was laid-off. I would
imagine that Trent Mick, who was/is the Komodo project manager, is the
only person working on ActivePython and I'm sure that he has lots of
other responsibilities. 

I bet that after ActivePython 2.2 comes out, future releases will become
available in a more timely fashion.

Cheers,
Brian 




From usenet at thinkspot.net  Tue Mar 12 18:27:36 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:27:36 -0800
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a6l6p9.3vs6ro7.1@kserver.org>

[posted and mailed]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:59:13 -0600, "Scott Kurland" <skurland at juggler.net>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <u8t22ns5jo7i46 at corp.supernews.com>:

> Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?

> #Searching for perfect numbers
> 
> howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
> for number in range (1,howhigh):
>  factorsum = 0
>  halfnumber=number/2
>  for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
>   if number/checking == int (number/checking):
>    factorsum = factorsum + checking
>  if number == factorsum:
>   print number
> 

What do you mean it isn't working? It ran without crashing when I tried it.
Here is the output from a sample run:

>>> 
How high should I check?50
10

>>> 

Are you expecting some other type of output? What are you expecting?

 
> Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.

Oh, now what newsgroup mistreated you so, that you would expect such a
thing? We don't do that here in comp.lang.python!

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From kp87 at lycos.com  Fri Mar  8 06:08:51 2002
From: kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 03:08:51 -0800
Subject: [OT] range() for unix shell
References: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015542375.17702.python-list@python.org> <2adab837.0203071734.1a3bee80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5e8bd451.0203080308.6665d155@posting.google.com>

Paul (see you on Csound from time to time!)

see the useless python page:


http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/uselesspython2.html

<kp>


From mac at magusdesigns.com  Wed Mar  6 18:19:32 2002
From: mac at magusdesigns.com (99miles)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0800
Subject: create zip archive
Message-ID: <f5adfd88.0203061519.608151a7@posting.google.com>

hi-
 i am creating a zip file from a directory. it is working great, but
the files in the subdirectories get put into the top level directory
in the zip file. I want the directory structure to remain intact when
i extract the zip file.
 How can I do this? Any ideas? thanks a lot-
 Mac

I am using this code, currently:

for name in glob.glob("mypath/*"):
     if os.path.isfile(name):
          file.write(name, os.path.basename(name),
zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 16:47:00 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:47:00 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's? 
Message-ID: <OFC9F7602B.4F640611-ON88256B6F.00714F56@i2.com>

[Jim]
> For example, one problem I had when playing with an experimental
> implementation of the "middle argument" variant mentioned above is that
the
> specific relational operators are tied to the values of the bounds.  If
you
> want to iterate from the smaller value (up) to the larger value you
write:
>
> for 1 <= var < 5:
>
> whereas if you want to iterate from the larger value (down) to the
smaller
> value you have to turn things around and write:
>
> for 5 > var >= 1:
>
> which all looks very nice when you are dealing with literal constants.
But
> suppose you have variables for the bounds, "start" and "end"?  Let's say
I
> have a function
>
> def doSomethingFromTo(start,end):
>
> The function has to test to see which of "start" and "end" is the smaller
> value in order to know whether to execute a for-loop with "<" or a
for-loop
> with ">" (and the code specified in each separate for-loop has to be
> written redundantly).  I found this to be awkward.

[Greg Ewing]
> But if you really want, you can
> always sort out the argument order before entering
> the loop, e.g.
>
>    if start > end:
>       start, end = end, start
>    for start <= i < end:
>       ...
>
> No redundant for-loop code required.

But I don't get the specified behavior, either.


[David Eppstein]
> What's wrong with
>     for min(start,end) < var < max(start,end)
> ?

It gives different results than specified.


Let's take an example.

Suppose start == 10 and end == 5

This means I want to iterate on 10,9,8,7,6,5 (ignore open vs closed -- not
relevant here) in *that* order.

In Greg's case we swap start and end and do
    for 5 <= i <= 10
and iterate 5,6,7,8,9,10 -- the right numbers but the wrong order.

In David's case we pick 5 as the min and 10 as the max do
    for 5 <= var <= 10
and iterate 5,6,7,8,9,10 -- same deal.

In other words, if I want to iterate up (smaller up to larger) I need to
write the for-loop as
    for smaller <= i <= larger:  # can *only* iterate up
but if I want to iterate down (larger down to smaller) I need to write the
for-loop with the reverse relational operators
    for larger >= i >= smaller:  # can *only* iterate down

So if you want/need "from/to" functionality for an "interval" using the
suggested for+relational idiom, you need to have two for-loops at hand,
test the bounds, *and* pick the corresponding, correct for-loop (whose
relational operators are in the correct direction).

Note that the existing range and xrange functions (when used in a
for-loop), although requiring a test on the bounds in order to determine
the correct order of the args, do *not* require the use of two for-loops in
this context.
    for i in range(n,m,step):  # can iterate up or down depending on
n,m,step

I would like to be able to create a "directional, interval-like" object
that iterates 10,9,8,7,6,5 (for example) as well as one that iterates
5,6,7,8,9,10 -- and do that with *one* construct, not two (in a for-loops,
list-comp.s, or anywhere else).  Using the much beloved (by few beside me
<wink>) "overload the divide operators" approach (just to illustrate the
point, no need to flame the syntax again <wink>), you can do this by saying
    interval_5to10 = 5 // span // 10
    interval_10to5 = 10 // span // 5
so that one for-loop does the trick
    for i in start // span // end: # can iterate up *or* down, just like
range can

The fact that the suggested for+relational idiom *does* require two loops
seems like a step backwards (again, in *this* context) to me.  Or a
limitation, at least.

Just to clarify.

Jim




From jScPhArMistl at att.net  Tue Mar 19 15:51:22 2002
From: jScPhArMistl at att.net (Joe Christl)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:51:22 GMT
Subject: Newbie: word count and Win32
References: <e9cd3ea2.0203190421.904cdfb@posting.google.com> <a786tq$s81$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <kr8f9ukbg3n3i3oghrues7ir93rub2tuo2@4ax.com>

On 19 Mar 2002 20:26:34 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>
>From a quick look that[1] script, it looks like it expects to read
>from stdin only. I.e., it says
>
>    # iterate over each line on stdin
>    for line in sys.stdin.readlines() :
>        ...

I emailed the author of the post (Derrick Hudson) and that was what he told me
too.  

>
>To feed the script's stdin you'll have to redirect or pipe data to it.
>To pipe stuff on windows to a python script you have to run the interpreter
>(python) explicitly one way or another, so I would try:
>
>    python count.py < foo.txt
>
>or you could pipe the output of the windows type command, like:
>
>    type foo.txt | python count.py

The < redirect didn't seem to work from a Win32 standpoint.  I tried the:

python count.py < foo.txt 
...and...
python count.py foo.txt

... with failed results.  I forgot about the pipe |


>
>To make the script work like what you expected, it needs to look
>at the command line arguments (sys.argv) for a file name and open that,
>and use the resulting file object in place of stdin.
>

He gave a a diff output for it to accept a filename.  I am going to try that
first and report back,


>BTW, IMO you get a nicer ouput if you change the last line of the script to
>     print '%6d: %s' % (words[word], word)

I don't really care too much about the amount of times a word shows up.  I'll
try it his way and yours.  :)

>As an exercise, you could modify it to accept an option on the command line
>to output in order of frequency instead of alphbetically, and also accept
>a file name. Then look into the glob module and see if you can make it
>do multiple files from a wild card spec. Have fun.

As busy as my time is, it may be next year when I finish all that :P

>You may want to look at various scripts that were put on your disk when
>you installed, e.g. in wahtever corresponds to D:\Python22\Tools\Scripts\*
>on your system. Look at some small stuff first.
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter
>

Thanks,
Joe Christl


From justin at iago.org  Thu Mar  7 11:12:13 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:12:13 -0500
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
	<mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org>
	<Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
	<R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <x7wuwo5pcy.fsf@ra.iago.org>

"Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> writes:

> Brett is exactly right. I am using an approach that is valid and elegant in
> C++.

Since elegance is largely a matter of opinion, I'll simply disagree on
that point.  Destructors and related methods generally ought to be
used for object cleanup related to their reclamation, not for doing
additional new processing.  Abusing them in this fashion feels deeply
inelegant to me, especially since there are so many straightforwward
ways to solve the problem without resorting to such means.

Elegance aside, your approach is invalid regardless of the
programming language.

You cannot create a correct HTML-writing program in the style you
demonstrated, given the structure of HTML.  Your linear style simply
will not work for anything beyond trivial examples, since HTML is
fundamentally hierarchical.

As another poster mentioned, your method breaks down very quickly.
Your style would not work for this fairly simple document because the
structure is unclear:

-----------------------------
h = HTML()
b = BODY()
l = LIST()
le = LISTELEMENT()
p = PARAGRAPH()
-----------------------------

This will not work because you must specify both the start and end of
a tag in this sort of language.  It cannot be usefully inferred from
any linear structure.  This has little to do with Python, and will
break just as badly in any language.

A few examples of alternate strawman methods that might work:

-----------------------------
h = HTML() 
b = BODY() 
l = LIST() 
le = LISTELEMENT() 
p = PARAGRAPH() 
h.start()
b.start()
l.start()
le.start()
le.end()
l.end()
p.start()
p.end()
b.end()
h.end()
-----------------------------
HTMLstart()
BODYstart()
LISTstart()
LISTELEMENTstart()
LISTELEMENTend()
LISTend()
PARAGRAPHstart()
PARAGRAPHend()
BODYend()
HTMLend()
----------------------------- 
HTML(BODY(LIST(LISTELEMENT()), PARAGRAPH()))
-----------------------------  

The first two of these are not quite as concise as yours, but unlike
yours all three are able to express the needed structure to correctly
generate HTML.

> While Justin is correct - there are a number of packages out there to
> generate HTML, I was writing an article and trying to use Python for the
> simple examples in the article. (The article was not about Python, per se).
> I had to remove all references to Python when I found that the order of
> destruction was non-deterministic.

This doesn't follow.  There are plenty of simple ways to do what you
describe that work without trying to misuse the methods designed to
aid with garbage collection.

> It is interesting that destruction/garbage collection (something
> usually done after everything has been completed) has so profound
> effect on the design of programs and thus, implementation of
> algorithms.

It wouldn't have nearly as much effect if you took heed of your own
parenthetical note and realized that all of an object's interesting
work should be done before the destructor, as opposed to inside the
destructor.

I apologize if my tone here is a bit confrontational, but that is
largely due to the fact that you immediately began blaming Python for
not doing what you want in spite of an incorrect design.

-Justin

 






From cfelling at iae.nl  Wed Mar  6 16:51:53 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 22:51:53 +0100
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <a6631p$8q3$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
...

I haven't studied your proposal closely yet, so I'm probably way off
here, but...

> Issues

>     The following issues were raised in discussion of this and related
>     proposals on the Python list.
...
>     - Should types other than int, long, and float be allowed as
>       bounds?  Another choice would be to convert all bounds to
>       integers by int(), and allow as bounds anything that can be so
>       converted instead of just floats.  However, this would change
>       the semantics: 0.3 <= x is not the same as int(0.3) <= x, and it
>       would be confusing for a loop with 0.3 as lower bound to start
>       at zero.  Also, in general int(f) can be very far from f.

...I definitely would expect this to work for all types that know
about comparison and have let's say a successor or predecessor method.
Integers should grow such methods too.  Let's call the successor
method next and confuse the hell out of everyone:)

The loop variable will be of the same type as the left-bound.
For `low <=' it gets as value the value of low, for `low <'
the initialisation value is low.successor.

So different steps are easy, like:

    class Step2(int):
        def successor(self):
            return Step2(self + 2)

    for low < x < 20:

-- 
groetjes, carel


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 22:20:42 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:20:42 -0500
Subject: vwait in Python?
References: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis> <mailman.1017331196.5311.python-list@python.org> <cQIo8.3511$Ou.3340@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3DD8A.49C7C339@engcorp.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> "Ken Guest" <kwg at renre-europe.com> wrote: in message
> > So is there no way, short of a 2 line while statement, to have code
> > hang around until the value of some variable has been changed?
> >
> > I have tried using variations of the simple while statement, but they
> > only result in the application hanging (going into an infinite loop
> > no doubt).
> >
> Now you've explained the REAL problem, of course it's easier to see how to
> solve it.
[...] 
> Something else you haven't explained is whether the code which changes the
> variable's value is aware that there is another component waiting for it to
> change (in other words, are you working with code you can modify, or must
> you just wait for the value to change).

This being Python, I wonder if it isn't possible, with code "you can't modify",
to change the code anyway, by inserting an appropriate __setattr__() to 
monitor the change.

If nothing else, this thought is giving me some cool ideas related to 
mock objects and such in doing test-driven development...  hmm. :-)

-Peter


From cfelling at iae.nl  Sun Mar  3 21:20:03 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 03:20:03 +0100
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <1cef615e.0203021254.6bf3658@posting.google.com> <3C82C77E.6B9FA688@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <a5ulkj$i91$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> "Hernan M. Foffani" wrote:
>> 
>> indici(x) will replace the odd xrange(len(x)) idiom and address the problem
>> of open intervals where the length of the set is not known in advance.

> I like this a lot!

> But... where the **** did the word "indici" come from?

some misplaced latin inflexion?

> Could we please call it either "indexes" or "indices"?

Let's go for indices then, as indexes is to similar to indexed, and I
would like to reserve that word for the case you want the index as wel
as the indexed item like in:

   for i, x in indexed("spam"):
       print "letter %s is a `%d'" % (i, x)
-- 
groetjes, carel


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar  1 19:48:53 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:48:53 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014944882.14890.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-80232B.17244028022002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3C802175.A527BFA0@ccvcorp.com>

David Eppstein wrote:

> In article <mailman.1014944882.14890.python-list at python.org>,
>  James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
>
> > Another issue that I have is that the syntax does not work outside of a
> > for-loop header.  I want to be able to create integer intervals anywhere in
> > my code, not just in the header of a for-loop.
>
> [x for 3 <= x < 10]

Personally, I still don't see this as being an advantage over xrange(3,10).


> or, for a slightly more complicated example: yesterday I wanted to iterate
> over powers of two:
>
> [1L << x for 0 <= x < 1000]

[1L << x for x in xrange(1000)]

While this would benefit from generator comprehension instead of list
comprehension, other than that, I don't (personally) see an advantage to the
interval-syntax proposal.

I suppose it's just a matter of taste, but I'd rather see fewer "nifty syntax
tricks" added to Python, and I don't see this as adding enough functionality over
xrange() to be worthwhile.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From christophe.delord at free.fr  Sat Mar  9 02:31:00 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 08:31:00 +0100
Subject: short-circuit behavior anomaly?
References: <mailman.1015657336.24581.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C89BA34.8070501@free.fr>

Hi,

There is a bug in 'fn'.
pr always returns None. When x==1, pr('one') is executed (and prints 
'one') and returns None so the condition (x==1 and pr('one')) is false. 
Finally the last condition will also be evaluated (ps('other')).

you can define pr like this :

def pr(s):
     print s
     return 1

or define the last condition like this :
     or (x not in (1,2) and pr('other'))


Christophe.

logosity wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I was working through this tutorial:
> http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_13.txt
> 
> Which shows the statements in the following functions (imp and fn) as 
> equivalent:
> 
> def pr(s): print s
> 
> def imp():
>     if x == 1: pr('one')
>     elif x == 2: pr('two')
>     else: pr('other')	
> 	
> def fn():
>     (x == 1 and pr('one')) \
>  or (x == 2 and pr('two')) \
>  or (pr('other'))
> 
> Here is a sample program:
> x = 1
> imp()
> x = 2
> imp()
> x = 3
> imp()
> print
> x = 1
> fn()
> x = 2
> fn()
> x = 3
> fn()
> 
> When run, this produces the following output:
> one
> two
> other
> 
> one
> other
> two
> other
> other
> 
> IOW, the third clause gets evaluated regardless of the outcome of the 
> first two clauses.
> 
> However, substituting the following in fn() will produce the same 
> result as imp():
> print (x == 1 and ("one")) or (x == 2 and ('two'))  or ('other')
> 
> Implying something to do with the function calls -- if I replace the 
> pr('one') call in the line again will cause 'other' to be printed 
> after 'one')
> 
> I am wondering, is this a mistake in the tutorial, a change in 
> behavior between versions (I am using 2.1 and the tutorial seems to 
> be written against 2.0), a bug in Python, or something else?
> 
> I have looked through the FAQ, browsed the bug list at SF, read the 
> relevant sections of the language reference and searched (as best I 
> could) the mailing list archive here (and at google), but I can't 
> find out what the deal is.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Christophe Delord
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 17:42:54 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:42:54 -0600
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020306143604.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <slrna8d5q4.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
        <XFMail.20020306143604.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <15494.39790.135887.255289@beluga.mojam.com>

    Sean> On 06-Mar-2002 Steve Lamb wrote:
    >> On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:21:35 -0800 (PST), Sean 'Shaleh' Perry
    >> <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
    >>> help release more python modules so perl mongers will quite wagging
    >>> CPAN in front of our faces.
    >> 
    >> Quality over Quantity.  :)

    Sean> not to disagree, however there are FAR more interesting perl
    Sean> modules out there than python ones.

Correct, which is why a better solution than CPAN or VoP might include some
sort of module rating system.  However, this discussion probably belongs on
the catalog-sig.  (my first bullet. hint, hint... ;-)

Skip



From gimbo at ftech.net  Thu Mar  7 08:55:02 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:55:02 +0000
Subject: overloading a function
Message-ID: <20020307135502.GA489@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 12:36:46AM +1100, Dave Harrison wrote:

> If I have a function, but I want to be able to call it two different
> ways - the ways being differentiated by the paramaters I pass the
> function) how do I do this ??

The pythonic way is to use default parameter values as follows:

def Foo(num, dflt=None):
    if dflt is None:
        # do whatever is appropriate
    else:
        # do whatever is appropriate

Then you can use either of the following:

Foo(5)
Foo(5, 'hello')

This is actually an FAQ: http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.75

HTH,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 08:35:49 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:35:49 +0000
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DC1@admin56.narex.com> <mailman.1017449771.10283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0efbauk1gi6s06hi8pmo8cimsaci4l9b1q@4ax.com>

Steven Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote:

>
>table = {}
>
>table[key] = func, (args,...)
>...
>
>def doit( k ):
>	return table[k][0]( *table[k][1] )
>
>
>You could also use entries that are lists of (func,args) pairs,
>and there are ways of constructing nested tables.
>
>
There are many ways of achieving the same result as a nice clear
case/switch/whatever construct, but they all end up being an exercise
in deduction for the reader.

You can't beat a properly designed construct for the purpose. Then, at
least, everyone knows what you're trying to achieve.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From stefan.heimann at web.de  Wed Mar  6 18:26:03 2002
From: stefan.heimann at web.de (Stefan Heimann)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 23:26:03 GMT
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from popen
References: <slrna8bou9.1sd.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer> <Afph8.55$_Z4.84@news.hananet.net> <a65k6h$143m$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8d9ca.1ld.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote::

> Quoth Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu>:
>| Stefan Heimann scribbled with his keyboard:
>|> I want to launch an external process and have stdout and stderr
>|> redirected to one output stream,
>|
>| You are on Unix, right?
>|
>|> something like
>|> 
>|> f = os.popen('cvs status 2>&1')
>|> 
>|> does the right thing, but does not work on all platforms.
> 
> Apparently he is not on UNIX?  That's the right answer, as long
> as popen() runs the UNIX shell.

I am on unix but I want it to work on windows, too.

> 
>|> If I write
>|> 
>|> pin, pout, perr = os.popen3('cvs status')
>|> 
>|> I get the output of stderr and stdout but not in the right order.
>|
>| What do you mean in the right order? Do you mean that it is returning in, 
>| err, out or that err and out are spitting out stuff simultaneously?

the latter one.

> 
> Probably not simultaneous, because the C I/O library probably has
> thread interlocks that prevent it, but if you want a single time
> ordered stream, you'd need time stamps to reassemble it out of
> two.  For example, suppose you record the output of "make", which
> will be both output and error streams.  If you read them separately,
> you won't be able to tell which compiler errors belong to which
> make commands.

That's what I need! Is it really so complicated? I think it should be
common that someone needs to read stdout and stderr ordered by time.

> 
>| Okay, let's talk about what is really happening deep underneath the hood.
>|
>| These popen functions are a shorthand for a very common thing in the world 
>| of Unix. It goes something like this:
>|
>| 1) make three pipes (in, out, err)
>| 2) fork.
> 
> I beg your pardon, but that's really not common at all.  Most UNIX
> pipes are created using the shell, which makes a pipe for output only.
> If you want a separate pipe for error, you're in for some gymnastics -
>   (cvs status 2>&3 | sed s/^/out:/) 3>&1 1>&2 | sed s/^/err:/
> And there's no Bourne shell formula at all to get all three on pipes.
> More recent shells have features that could be exploited for that,
> but it gets hairy.
> 
> This is not just nitpicking, because there are real good reasons why
> it isn't all that common.  It's surprisingly difficult to get two
> processes to cooperate reliably over multiple pipes.  That's my second
> point here - even if separate output and error streams are OK in terms
> of the data, they're distinctly more difficult to deal with if you
> don't make some simplifying assumptions about how the other process
> is going to behave.
> 
> The shell syntax to route both streams into the pipe is really the
> right way to go, if it works.  If it doesn't work, we'd have to know
> why not, before suggesting any answer.  (If it doesn't work on Windows,
> then someone else is going to have to answer it - and the subject line
> probably should have included "Windows" in the first place.)

Hm, I haven't tested it on Windows, but I *know* that the shell syntax
won't work. I didn't think that it is so complicated ;-)

Bye Stefan


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 12:41:58 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:41:58 +0000
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa4136.26c.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:22:10 -0500, Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>While you correctly interpret netiquette, might it not have been more
>considerate to this list if you had *mailed* the OP rather than giving
>her/him a public dressing down which many others also had to read
>unnecessarily? Or is it OK to waste *my* time by chastising the OP publicly?

One advantage of posting to the newsgroup is that everyone else also 
gets the messages that top posting is bad.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Mar  1 22:26:13 2002
From: quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 03:26:13 GMT
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <slrna80hik.ctn.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:13:15 +0900, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> wrote:
>I tried to use the shutil module... and to tell you the truth, it stinks. 
>Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that has the 
>equivalent of the unix shell utilities?
>
>I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...
>
>Here is my wish list. Each of these should implement a significant portion 
>of what the GNU utils do. They should be robust, and give reasonable 
>results, and reasonable exceptions.
>
>touch, chmod, chown, chgrp, touch
>df, du
>cp, dd, install, mv, rm, shred

I have a single function that implements more than a sigificant portion:
os.system()

Seriously, why reinvent all those wheels?  If you're looking for portability to
systems without them, I'm sure you can find implementations.  Maybe not on the
Mac though--I don't know how shellish stuff works there.  If the answer is "it
doesn't" then maybe a python solution is necessary.  But all most of the chgrp
etc. stuff isn't going to work there anyway.

>If there isn't an effort to make this, or if no one has done anything like 
>this yet, I am willing to volunteer some time to do it. It would be really 
>nice if they ended up being compatible with Windows and Macintosh - give 
>them some powerful tools they didn't even know existed!

The cygwin people already did this.

If you want to do some hacking that's great, but your time may be better
spent elsewhere :)


From cbbrowne at acm.org  Thu Mar 21 00:18:38 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:18:38 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list@python.org> <A2F124616A415A90.905029C2E4C51EB9.602FB306F71F6138@lp.airnews.net> <3C996234.9090506@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <m3n0x2a47l.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com>

The world rejoiced as Rich Salz <r.salz at verizon.net> wrote:
> Cameron Laird wrote:
>> I'm still looking for a way to get this point across:  the
>> answer to many questions is, "There's no such thing."  No
>> one plays the role for Python that Sun plays for Java.
>
> Hmm..  Both provide a reference implementation, both provide a
> community process for suggesting improvements (but still retain the
> right to do what they think best)...  what's missing?

Guido has slightly shallower pockets than Sun, and the community is
worried about his being struck by massive passenger-carrying vehicles.
-- 
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@canada.com")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/python.html
Do Roman paramedics refer to IV's as "4's"? 


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Sat Mar 16 01:31:55 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:31:55 +0900
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com> <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <mailman.1016216607.29202.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <etBk8.302$ID.1920@news.hananet.net>

Cliff Wells scribbled with his keyboard:

> On 15 Mar 2002 05:35:15 GMT
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
>> The best solution to this problem is to give in and get a damn Windows
>> box.  Even a virtual one with VMWare or Bochs will do. AFAIK Bochs can
>> run at least Windows 95 and it even runs on non-x86 hardware.
> 
> I use VMware 2.0 at work and 3.0 at home and found it to be excellent.
> I've had some stability problems with 3.0 (although this may be the result
> of other factors - later Linux kernel versions, Athlon CPU, keyboard/chair
> interface, etc).  At work, VMware 2.0 has never crashed on me and
> performance is excellent on a PIII 800 running Win2k, and it's far
> preferable to having a dual-boot system.
> 

VMWare is not free software, right?

Trouble with non-free software is that they tend to go out of business 
eventually (like our dear friends from the Blender community) and take 
their software with them.

Jonathan


From carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com  Fri Mar 29 11:26:15 2002
From: carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com (Mike Carifio)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:26:15 GMT
Subject: test_struct.py fails when building Python 2.2 on RedHat 6.2/alpha
Message-ID: <HA0p8.22180$26.1468737@typhoon.maine.rr.com>

I've recently built Python 2.2 on a RedHat 6.2/alpha box.
When I run the regression test suite ('make test'), test_struct.py
fails with a floating point exception and stops the regression test
suite.

Some questions:

1) Is this a know error or have I discovered something new? I
     tried to find out if this error was seen before by going to
     the python bugs database
(http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=105470&group_id=5470&func=browse)
     and searching the newsgroup in Google. Are there other sources? I
didn't
     find a good way to search the sourceforge bug tracker for specific
keywords (like
     'test_struct' or 'alpha').

2) Once I take test_struct.py out of the test list, the suite runs to
completion, but I still
     have 24 tests that have failed. Are all tests the same? For example, if
test_bsddb fails, is my installation
     bogus or should I just shy away from db files on RH6.2/alpha?  Is there
a document or
     file somewhere that tells me how to interpret these results?

3) And related to (2), is test_struct.py a "mandatory" test?

I guess the question I'm asking is: if some of the tests fail, is the build
to be distrusted? If there's a judgment
call to make here, how do I inform my judgement? Please advise at your
convenience. Thanks.




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  2 18:22:37 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:22:37 -0500
Subject: Windows GUI - which way?
References: <a5k8t9$hrp$1@news.efn.org> <3C7EC855.5844B19F@engcorp.com> <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203021308260.14311-100000@garcia.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C815EBD.7DC6C694@engcorp.com>

Spencer Ernest Doidge wrote:
> 
> I want to maintain and use a library of Python scripts. I want to invoke
> any script from this library by using a GUI app. The script itself would
> have no GUI features. It would be sending and receiving serial port
> messages. (This is like the script I am already running.)
> 
> Some frequently-used scripts would be invoked directly from a Tools menu,
> others would be named in a File/Open dialog. I want to begin execution of
> the script by using either a menu, a dialog, or a toolbar icon. When the
> execution begins, I want to be able to abort the script at any time by
> either a dialog button, a menu item, or a toolbar icon.

Sounds a lot like some kind of automated testing system.  Can you 
describe the nature of the application, to help us envision appropriate
approaches?

> If I write the GUI app all in Python, is it a simple matter to, say, load
> and run the script in its own thread, and have it be responsive to a
> signal from the main thread telling it to abort?

Sure.  Scripts can be loaded at any time with 'import', and it's
trivial to derive a Thread class which sports a spiffy "stop()"
method that sets a flag which is polled in the main loop as a way
of telling the thread to clean up and exit.

> For nice-to-haves, it would be nice to display some sort of output, even a
> progress control (thermometer, or whatever one calls it), or some text in
> an output window, the way it's done in Visual C++ when you build a
> project.

The background thread can communicate with the GUI thread by using
the various mechanisms for such a thing that are provided by Python
(e.g. 'Queue') and by the GUI framework you pick (for example, the
wxWindows/wxPython 'PostEvent()' method).

> Do you know of straightforward ways to accomplish the must-haves?
> 
> What about the nice-to-haves?

Just start building and ask away in this forum as you encounter 
difficulties. :-)


From NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com  Sat Mar 16 15:04:08 2002
From: NO_SPAM_jmpurser2 at attbi.com (John Purser)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:04:08 GMT
Subject: Sample Python programs to look at?
References: <327f0ccd.0203161144.14299a4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YyNk8.48575$702.17011@sccrnsc02>

Chris just posted this as a useful link in another similar thread:
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/

As someone new to Python it was just what I was looking for.

John

"jennyw" <jennyw at colorfulexpressions.com> wrote in message
news:327f0ccd.0203161144.14299a4c at posting.google.com...
> Hi there! I was just wondering if someone could suggest sample Python
> programs to look at.  Something complicated enough for me to get a
> feel for what programming something non-trivial would be like, but not
> so complex that it's overwhelming.  In particular, I'm interested in
> database access (e.g. MySQL) and IMAP access, so if there's a smallish
> app. w/ source out there that someone could point me to, that'd be
> great!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jen




From shriek at gmx.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 22:09:36 2002
From: shriek at gmx.co.uk (Stephen)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 19:09:36 -0800
Subject: Want to monitor process..
References: <87550ef1.0202272315.15779bbd@posting.google.com> <f2lf8.385$Az6.1854@news.hananet.net> <97ae44ee.0202280901.3153bdfc@posting.google.com> <3C7EC9C6.D11FB17@engcorp.com> <97ae44ee.0203010102.14ebf2bb@posting.google.com> <3C7F66AB.D51BEA03@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <97ae44ee.0203011909.620b829b@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
> > > Yikes!  "Crash"?  Do you really mean they crash the Python interpreter,
> > > or do you mean they exit with an exception?
> > 
> > Sorry, I guess I mean "exit with an exception" though to be honest, I
> > still don't know because I haven't been able to run the programs
> > interactively during a 'crash'.  
> 
> I'm not sure what the interactive thing would add, since the
> interpreter will already print exception tracebacks to the console
> whenever your program exits exceptionally.  If you aren't seeing
> a traceback, maybe you aren't really exiting with an exception.

Sorry, I should have explained that the reason I don't see the output
is that I run the programs in the background since I log into the
servers from remote and don't want the programs exiting when I log
out.


> > > If the latter, just wrap the highest level code with a try/finally
> > > or try/except and put code in to ensure the child processes are
> > > properly terminated.  Simple, clean, safe.
> > 
> > Will do.  I didn't want to put try/except/finally at the highest level
> > of code yet since we're actually in Beta and I want to know when my
> > server encounters a problem.  
> 
> No problem, just put a "raise" statement as the final statement in
> the exception handling block (when using try/except only) and you'll
> still propagate the exception up and right out of the interpreter
> so it prints a traceback to the console.

Good idea, this is something that I think I should employ for all code
in future.  When developing applications, I usually have exceptions
raised at the lowest level of code (eg. the module/class level) but
then as I start building the higher levels of code, the lower levels
get lost ('swallowed') as opposed to propagated up. Damn, wish that
had occured to me earlier.

>  In the try/finally case,
> however, you'll still get the traceback if an exception *did* 
> occur, because the interception is only a temporary one.  After the
> finally code executes, exception processing continues on.
>
> I think you might focus on the lack of a traceback.  You should
> always see one if you aren't explicitly swallowing the exception.
> (Note, a few standard modules such as the SocketServer and such
> will internally swallow exceptions in the server threads by default.)

I've been logged in and watching the console for several hours and I
am getting a traceback when errors occur ~ the difficulty I had before
was imposed by running to the background, which I've just seen in the
link below (http://cr.yp.to/daemontools/faq/create.html#why) is
apparently not good software design.

.................................

> From: Greg Green (gregory.p.green at boeing.com)
> Subject: Re: Want to monitor process.. 
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> View this article only 
> Date: 2002-03-01 12:35:56 PST 
 > 
> 
> If you are using a unix OS, I would suggest using daemontools 
> from Bernstein. It has a set of tools for supervising a process. 
> I use it all of the time for these sorts of problems.

Excellent! This looks like just the ticket. I've actually employed it
in the past with Bernstein's Qmail but never truly understood the
importance of it. Now that I've read the minimalist documentation, I
think this is going to become an important addition to my toolbox.

Thank you, gentlemen, thank you.

Stephen.


From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 06:14:55 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:14:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: 'The Goat and the Car' puzzle solved in Python -- was: [GERMAN] "ziegenpro
References: <mailman.1015528633.6283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6a6ff$840$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

Oh, this is the zeigenproblem thread?  I was ignoring it because it 
purported to be in German.

> Le 07/03/02 ? 19:28, stefan antoni ?crivit:
> > sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know 
> > the
> > name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
> > problem is also in german.

It's called the Monty Hall Problem.

> > i am still going to school, and we talked about this problem in a math
> > lesson. since i haven't got a basic-interpreter, i'd like to translate
> > this code into python, but i don't understand the code.

Here's my monty.py from a while back.  It gives the result

you got 66642 cars and 33358 goats
you were right 66% of the time

so the stratagem works!


"""Python script to test the Monty Hall Problem"""
import whrandom
nCars = 0
nGoats = 0
for each in xrange(100000):

  # decide where the car is
  carPosition = whrandom.randint(1,3)

  # choose a door
  myFirstChoice = whrandom.randint(1,3)

  # Monty chooses a door
  # not your door or the one with the car behind
  for door in (1,2,3):
    if door not in (carPosition, myFirstChoice):
      montyChoice = door

  # change your mind
  for door in (1,2,3):
    if door not in (montyChoice, myFirstChoice):
      myFinalChoice = door

  # see what you won!
  if myFinalChoice == carPosition:
    nCars = nCars + 1
  else:
    nGoats = nGoats + 1

print "you got %i cars and %i goats" % (nCars, nGoats)
print "you were right %i%% of the time" % (nCars*100/(nCars+nGoats))



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar  6 21:31:11 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:31:11 +1300
Subject: Pep 276 - if 6 were 9
References: <a656fi$bg3f4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3C86D0EF.4FD46F1B@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> 
> for each of range(6):
> for each of mylist:
> for each of 6:

  for seven of 9, tertiary adjunct of unimatrix(1):
    ...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From surajsub at netscape.net  Fri Mar 15 20:24:33 2002
From: surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 17:24:33 -0800
Subject: Help Required
Message-ID: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
speed.I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
supposed to be

uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)

However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives

uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..
string.lstrip does not work either.

what am i doing wrong?
TIA
Suraj


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar  4 12:05:44 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:05:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: experimental patch to allow importing from file-like objects
References: <3c7fcbe6.7419921@news.t-online.de> <Xns91C54C828E2A8gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.213> <3c81245c.47694421@news.t-online.de>  <3C817D5C.24C26C3F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrna87ab8.5bs.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <3C817D5C.24C26C3F at earthlink.net>, Hans Nowak wrote:
>Gerson Kurz wrote:
>
[...]
>I don't know much about 2.2 yet, but I think the
>preferred method is subclassing file, then opening a
>file through the subclass's constructor (rather than
>through open()). For example:

open *is* file. (Just take a closer look.)

So you should subclass file (i.e. open) -- and of course you'd then
use the constructor of that class, not the constructor of your
superclass (which would be file or open, which are one and the same).

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From amoustafa at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 01:41:13 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:41:13 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com>

Peter,

Thanks a lot for your answers. I really appreciate them.

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 
>>Peter Hansen wrote:
>>
>>>Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
>>>
>>>>1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
>>>>2. Will Python dominate?
>>>>3. Who does support Python?
>>>>
> [...]
> 
>>>I think if you told us what your purpose is in asking the questions,
>>>the answers would be more useful and direct.  _Why_ do you want
>>>to know?
>>>
>>I'm interested in knowing which skills will(are) being looked for.
>>
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.  In that case, these would be my answers
> to you:
> 
> 2. Python will not dominate, any more than any other language will.
> Python is certainly in a growth period, but it seems unlikely it
> will attain the mass acceptance of Pascal, C, C++, and Java in their
> day.  (Not to imply that Java's day has passed... that much is 
> evident from the number of bookstore shelves devoted to it!)
> But who cares?  If you go where the mass unwashed go, you'll get
> the same sorts of mundane and rote jobs as the mass unwashed do.
> 
> 1. As others have said, there is no such thing as an unbiased
> comparison of almost anything, let alone programming languages,
> let alone two with such, uh, "dedicated" users as Java and Python.
> Nevertheless, even if we could find such a thing, the response
> would really depend entirely on the application area.


How about web development? Also, how is Python doing in the embedded 
applications?


> Java is better suited for some applications, and Python for
> others.  Without defining the type of work you want to do,
> any comparison is meaningless.  (E.g. "Python programs tend
> to be much more readable" doesn't matter if your job involves
> writing Java on a Java team doing EJB stuff, unless you 
> can get the whole team to use Jython instead.)
> 
> 3. The best support for either Java or Python is probably in 
> their respective newsgroups.  Python's is widely known as being
> one of the most polite and helpful.  The language has been
> around a little longer as well, and as it's not largely a 
> commercial venture this might suggest that the "support"
> question is a bit of a red herring.  Do you regularly contact
> the Microsoft for help with VB, or Sun for help with Java?
> (Or did you mean who is "backing" the language, ensuring
> its continued viability.  The answer to that is twofold:
> look at the 11+ year age of Python as historical proof
> it's not a flash in the pan, and note it's _open source_
> so it cannot, by definition, lose viability while people
> support and use it.  You can always get the source.)
> 
> Here's my best answer to you:  I happen to hire programmers
> to work on my team in a wireless telecom company.  Although
> we happen to have chosen to use Python in addition to C and
> a few minor languages like Javascript and Assembly, where 
> necessary, the language we use is hardly the most important
> thing.  
> 
> Communication skills are, first and foremost, the thing I 
> look for in hiring.  This includes the softer social skills
> like how to work in a team and put aside one's programming
> ego.  Next are adaptability, as in how easily someone can 
> pick up new skills and apply them effectively.  Design 
> skills are useful.  Debugging skills are very valuable, 
> though rather unfortunately rare.  Probably some others 
> that don't come to mind in today's economy (we're not
> hiring now :-).
> 
> Way, way down the list of things I look for in a resume
> is the programming languages a candidate has.  Not entirely
> unimportant, but useful only taken as a whole.  I don't care 
> whether somebody knows Python, and have found and hired
> only one such programmer yet (and not because he knew Python).  
> The others had a variety of backgrounds including Java, 
> C++, Delphi, VB, C, BASIC, assembly of various kinds, 
> and so forth.  Those with only a single language, or 
> maybe two, probably didn't get hired.  Those with a dozen 
> were more able to demonstrate their flexibility to me.
> 
> When they were hired, they went to work learning Python.
> About a week later, most of them were already contributing
> in a productive way.  A month later any of them could
> code Python as well as they could code in any of their
> previous languages.  For the most part, I would have 
> expected the same of them even if we used Java (though
> perhaps with a somewhat longer learning curve).
> 
> The point is, I would never hire you or anyone _because_
> you knew Python, or Java.  I would hire you because
> I thought you were capable of learning it and using it
> effectively.  I actually tend to shy away from people 
> with great lists of "certifications" in languages because
> it suggests to me they have difficulty learning and 
> think it's a very impressive thing that they managed
> to learn enough to write an exam which tests knowledge
> of syntax but little about programming skill.


I agree a certificate does not mean a great programmer, and I think the 
employers know that, but it still tells that one is serious about the 
profession. I have been programming with Java for +4 years now. I got 
certified 2 months ago. I feel my resume is stronger now.


> 
> My suggestion then is to "get over" the comparison thing,
> and make sure you know both, and throw in others as you
> come across them and have opportunity to learn. This will
> make you a better programmer, because of the learning and
> generalization your brain will do, not because of the 
> specific skills you have.
> 
> Not all companies hire in this way, of course, but all
> the best ones do. :-)
> 
> -Peter
> 
> P.S.: If you are considering Python as a massive growth
> area where ex-Java programmers can go to get lucrative
> jobs, you're bound to be disappointed.  As in programming,
> there is no silver bullet.
> 

-- 
Ahmed Moustafa



From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Mar 15 13:50:42 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:50:42 +0000
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com> <MPG.16f93563d41b508f989696@news.mminternet.com> <23891c90.0203150820.6362868@posting.google.com> <1BA0B611A94DFC68.31BB361E767CE89A.765E82A2856C9826@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3C924282.6020407@mxm.dk>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> From what I've seen, cURL, or more properly libcurl 
> <URL: http://curl.haxx.se/ >, has cornered the market
> in being an efficiently coded library which properly
> interprets the most recent URL standards.  Is Python
> best served by support of pycurl?

Isn't Curl more like urllib? This thread was about a function that could 
manipulate, and especially add, (relative)urls

regards Max M



From bosahv at netscapenospam.net  Thu Mar 14 02:56:13 2002
From: bosahv at netscapenospam.net (Bo Vandenberg)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:56:13 GMT
Subject: Python Version Strategy?
Message-ID: <xIYj8.16613$_L.7649@news1.bloor.is>

I'm confused by what is going on with the python versions from various
sources.

Python.org has a final 2.2 (I use that) but Activestate has a python 2.1 as
its recommended python and only a 2.2 beta last I looked.

Redhat, and most (all?) of the linux distros seem to be slow to fully
upgrade and I feel like this is raining in my cornflakes.

I'm not even beginning to think of when the next version of python (3?)
comes out.

Anyone think they have inside information on all this?

What's a forward thinking newbie, with no old code to support to do???




From brueckd at tbye.com  Tue Mar  5 10:42:43 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:42:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
In-Reply-To: <3C8451E1.B2CD032@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203050738280.30955-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Greg Ewing wrote:

> Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> >
> > Python isn't necessarily slow:
>
> That sounds like a great title for a Python
> song: "It Ain't Necessarily Slow!"

Hmm... 'necessarily' is a bit cumbersome. The "ain't" makes me think of
country songs from the U.S., so how about "Just cuz I slither, it don't
mean I'm slow"?

On a side note, I noticed *another* musical-sounding thread started up -
"I've got the Unicode blues".

-Dave




From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 00:52:35 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:52:35 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>> That's kind of sad, but I figured as much.  The only real
>> stand-alone Win32 app I've seen in a long while is puTTY. Are
>> statically linked apps just not possible under Win32, or just
>> not practical?
> 
> Just as possible and practical as under Linux, really.  

But under Linux, there's generally the option to distribute
source, thus allowing the user to generate a binary that is
linked with the "right" libraries.

> Which is to say not highly desirable in many cases, at least
> for serious (read, largish) applications.  For smaller utility
> type programs, definitely possible but, unfortunately, less of
> an option in your case trying to do it with Python tools. But
> you really don't want to statically link an 800K interpreter
> and a 2MB windowing framework into your little utility, do
> you? :)

Hmm, I don't really see the difference in practice between
statically linking and installing a bunch of "private" DLLs
that are only used by my app.  In one case they're all in one
file, in the other case they're in a bunch of files that have
to be linked at run-time. In both cases none of the stuff is
being shared with anybody else, so it's not like putting things
in DLLs is saving any system resources -- though it perhaps
make the packaging simpler.

>> > Use py2exe and you'll get a directory with the Python DLL, the
>> > wxPython DLL, your EXE, and a few other DLLs as needed (e.g.
>> > the native regular expression stuff if you use it).
>> 
>> I don't know diddly about DLLs, so pardon the ignorant
>> question: Can my DLLs be put in a private directory where my
>> EXE can find them?  I'd rather not put anything in any public
>> system directories.
> 
> Yes, definitely.  Not entirely advisable if you're delivering
> more than one program in the same manner,

Right now I don't exect to.  If I did, couldn't I make all of
"my" apps look in the same place for "my" DLLs? I really hate
the idea of my app putting things in "system" directories.

That's just plain evil.  [Though that does appear to be SOP
under Windows.]

> since you'd be duplicating piles of files, but you can do it.

If I am duplicating files, then that means that some other app
is using the same DLLs. One of us is going to have to either
overwrite what's already there or use what's already there. My
limited experience is that neither option works very well.

AFAICT, there doesn't appear to be a practical way to have
multiple versions of DLLs installed, so if you've got two apps
that require different versions of DLLs, then one of the apps
is screwed.

> And I suppose there's the fact you'd be avoiding much of the
> grief caused by dynamically linked apps and "DLL version hell"
> by doing that, if you can spare the hard drive space (and most
> users probably can these days).

Windows users... worried about drive space... ROTFL!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Let's all show human
                                  at               CONCERN for REVERAND MOON's
                               visi.com            legal difficulties!!


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar 26 15:24:51 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 12:24:51 -0800
Subject: Optimizations (was Re: reduce vs. for loop)
References: <mailman.1017129288.16453.python-list@python.org> <a7q2nf$31b$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xeli7m60c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> Try this:
> 
> def fact3(n):
>     mul = operator.mul
>     return reduce(mul, range(1L, n+1) )

I don't think this is permitted, but if it were,
apply(mul, range(1L, n+1)) would probably be faster than reduce.


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Mar 25 17:13:11 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:13:11 GMT
Subject: win32Extensions,win32com
References: <3C9EFE65.7000300@decillion.net>
Message-ID: <3C9FA112.1080408@skippinet.com.au>

Gerrit van Dyk wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Is there a newsgroup or mailing list for the win32com extensions from 
> Mark Hammond or should I post related questions on this list?
> 
> Regards
> Gerrit van Dyk
> 

This list is fine.  There is a win32 specific list at 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32 if you prefer.

Mark.



From tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 06:36:54 2002
From: tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk (Toby Dickenson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:36:54 +0000
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <kuadtchqkh.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <ndeu8uggrn4jhgf0q5c0ajvtkctlfpnidi@4ax.com>

Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

>In article <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4 at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin Becker
><robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>| Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability
>| http://news.com.com/2100-1001-857008.html 
>
>| impact zlib.pyd? 
>
>i can't think of a reason why it wouldn't. if it's dynamically linked
>to zlib, you can just update the zlib library though.

Not on Windows, if I remember correctly (and I dont have a windows
machine handy to check)

Toby Dickenson
tdickenson at geminidataloggers.com


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 19:33:52 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:33:52 +0000
Subject: dictonary
References: <3C8F27DC.F69B1F54@stud.cs.uit.no> <mailman.1016016636.25825.python-list@python.org> <3C8F3800.3070002@mxm.dk> <3C8FEA78.C6250F62@3captus.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FEFF0.2000607@mxm.dk>

Bernard Yue wrote:

>
>Max M wrote:
>
>>A bit more readable perhaps?
>>
>>keys = dict.keys()
>>vals = dict.vals()
>>sql = "insert into table(%s) values (%s)" % (
>>     ','.join(keys),
>>     ','.join(list(len(keys)*'?'))
>>)
>>cursor.execute(sql, vals)
>>
>
>Will this method cause problem when inserting numbers (strings are
>quoted, but not for numbers)?  I remember it will (not 100% sure, it's
>been a while).  Thats what I've done (with MySQLdb):
>

If it follows the Python DB standard, quoting should not be nessecary 
when doing it like above. The execute method should automatically do the 
correct quoting whenever nessecary. To quote the spec:

------------------------------
"
 The module will use the __getitem__ method of the parameters object to 
map either positions (integers) or names (strings) to parameter values. 
This allows for both sequences and mappings to be used as input.

The term "bound" refers to the process of binding an input value to a 
database execution buffer. In practical terms, this means that the input 
value is directly used as a value in the operation. The client should 
not be required to "escape" the value so that it can be used -- the 
value should be equal to the actual database value.
"
------------------------------

So the above code generates a query like:

sql = "insert into table(firstname, lastname, country) values (?,?,?)"

The questionmarks are placeholders for the values in the parameter tuple 
passed to execute.

cursor.execute(sql, ("Max's", 'M', 'Denmark'))

You could also chose other ways to format your querystrings.

regards Max M

------------------------------
paramstyle: String constant stating the type of parameter marker 
formatting expected by the interface. Possible values are [2]:

    'qmark' = Question mark style, e.g. '...WHERE name=?'
    'numeric' = Numeric, positional style, e.g. '...WHERE name=:1'
    'named' = Named style, e.g. '...WHERE name=:name'
    'format' = ANSI C printf format codes, e.g. '...WHERE name=%s'
    'pyformat' = Python extended format codes, e.g. '...WHERE name=%(name)s'
------------------------------



From 987A8857 at eudoramail.com  Wed Mar 27 08:38:04 2002
From: 987A8857 at eudoramail.com (987A8857 at eudoramail.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:38:04 -0500
Subject: Here is how you will recieve you Vacation at no cost,
Message-ID: <7j7wka7e240i1k.24m0iu7yrt2b@mx2.efax.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20020327/7480fad4/attachment.html>

From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar  2 20:58:02 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:58:02 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-E81CC6.17470002032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <a5s09q$91dre$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"David Eppstein"
> Here's another way of looking at the same question.
> An iterable object has a next() function, that's what it means to be
> iterable.  If numbers are iterable, we can call number.next(), right?
> So what should 5.next() be?  Surely anyone familiar with the Peano
axioms
> would say 6, not 0!

Interesting, but even that depends on access mode.  If I open a file to
iterate over it, I certainly expect record 0 to be retrieved first.
OTOH, if I want to add a record, then I want the next _unused_ index.

As for what else iter(5) could mean, it's certainly more interesting to
have it count up to five vs counting up from five!  ;-)

I-have-to-get-back-to-practicing-my-Peano-now-ly y'rs,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From rstephens at vectron.com  Wed Mar  6 07:52:37 2002
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 04:52:37 -0800
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <3c8087eb$0$18514$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl> <a5415304.0203042144.805e13@posting.google.com> <3c848d1a$0$90054$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0203060452.3ae79ed@posting.google.com>

I have just ordered both Black Adder, Personal edition plus one year
of updates, as well as your new book, GUI Programming with Qt: Python
edition.

I want to thank all of you who responded to my initial enquiry: you
have helped to make my decision (along with some helpful comments from
the programming forum at www.arstechnica.com where a couple of people
were very enthusiastic about Black Adder). I also mentioned your book
there and posted the link you gave to Opendocs where I ordered it.

I almost feel guilty for not supporting PythonWare also, but my
reasons are:

1. I want to use my gui programs primarily on Linux (KDE) and also,
eventually, the Sharp Zaurus which uses the Qt toolkit.

2. The new GUI programming book using PyQt will be very helpful to me,
it includes chapters specifically on Black Adder.

3. I feel it is time for me to get off the fence and support Black
Adder, which appears to be what I am looking for.

This will not be a quick learn for me, but I am in it for the long
term now.

Thanks to all who offered opinions, and I look forward to reading the
book as soon as I get home from Asia! ;-)))

Ron Stephens
gui programming neophyte


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Mar 23 01:39:36 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 17:39:36 +1100
Subject: Sybase module 0.34 released
Message-ID: <m3lmcjg53r.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

What is it:
The Sybase module provides a Python interface to the Sybase relational
database system.  It supports all of the Python Database API, version
2.0 with extensions.

This is mostly a bug fix release.

1) Cursor state machine fix from Phillip J. Eby.

2) Fix for MS compiler reported by Roberto M Esguerra.

3) Added CS_IFILE option to ct_config() for Erik A. Dahl.

The module is available here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/sybase-0.34.tar.gz

The mailing list for discussing the module is here:

    https://www.object-craft.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/python-sybase

The module home page is here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 20:07:56 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:07:56 -0000
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org> <slrna9haud.e6b.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <slrnaa3bi8.lam.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <23891c90.0203290655.25bbcab9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaacob1.bu2.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <23891c90.0203290655.25bbcab9 at posting.google.com>, Paul Boddie wrote:
> It's actually quite reminiscent of the earliest versions of DTML, in
> fact, where comments are used to mark the structure of the "model" as
> opposed to the special tags which were introduced in DTML later on.

Why were special tags added? I don't see any need for anything above
the two concepts of 'replacements' and 'sections' that jonpy provides.

I think the three interesting concepts in jonpy are:

  * absolute minimum of non-html code in html templates

  * correspondence between html sections and nested classes, e.g.:

    HTML:
      <p>Top level.</p>
      <!--wt:section--><p>$$replacement$$</p><!--wt:/section-->
      <p>Top level.</p>
    Code:
      class main(wt.TemplateCode):
        class section(wt.TemplateCode):
	  def replacement(self):
	    return "Section."

  * dual file hierarchy for html and code, e.g.:

      DOCUMENT_ROOT/index.html
      DOCUMENT_ROOT/img.jpg
      DOCUMENT_ROOT/thing.html
      DOCUMENT_ROOT/subdir/index.html

      DOCUMENT_ROOT/wt/index.html.py
      DOCUMENT_ROOT/wt/thing.html.py
      DOCUMENT_ROOT/wt/subdir/index.html.py

> Zope Page Templates takes the other "under the radar" approach, of
> course, using special attributes which HTML editors usually don't want
> to touch.

Presumably bad things still happen if the designer deletes the tag
itself that the magic attributes are attached to though.

> In the Python community, there is obviously an intense interest in
> templating, but I haven't seen more than a handful of validation
> packages, and I can imagine that few of them actually integrate
> satisfactorily with template packages.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you give an example of what a
"validation package" might do?

Cheers


Jon


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 14:21:25 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:21:25 -0600
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0203071057.57204175@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
        <23891c90.0203071057.57204175@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15495.48565.198124.510813@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> * breathe some life into the catalog-sig:
    >> http://www.python.org/sigs/catalog-sig/

    Paul> We've got the Vaults and siphon has been around and yet failed to
    Paul> maintain a high profile, as far as I've read on this list/group.
    Paul> Interestingly, the CPAN issue just keeps coming up. Myself, I
    Paul> wrote a script to query the Vaults, and I even have functionality
    Paul> for finding dependencies, although with the "screen-scraping"
    Paul> techniques in use, my code is possibly not that reliable.
    Paul> Nevertheless, I see a future for "grass roots", really simple code
    Paul> in this area, and surely writing that code would be *much* easier
    Paul> than writing a PEP about some banal language change.

There was a lightning talk at IPC10 on Gideon, a prototype Python
repository.  Since it's implemented as a Zope product I think you sort of
get an XML-RPC API for free, which would beat screen scraping hands down.
You can check it out:

    http://www.zope.org/Members/k_vertigo/Products/Gideon

A prototype server is at:

    http://66.123.57.58:8080

Thanks to Andrew Kuchling for the references.

    >> * find a Python bug without a proposed fix and write one (there are
    >>   currently between 250 and 300 open bug reports):
    >>   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

    Paul> Although one might think that this requires a "Python internals
    Paul> skill level" of at least 7 out of 10, there are probably porting
    Paul> issues that could usefully be resolved by people with access to
    Paul> the right hardware.

Correctamundo.  I am in the midst of composing a note looking for new
developers, to be posted shortly. 

Skip




From sam_collett at lycos.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 05:26:03 2002
From: sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 02:26:03 -0800
Subject: Python Classes
Message-ID: <2030665d.0203070226.46b39af4@posting.google.com>

I am quite new to Python and have no experience with classes. I have
tried a file class, but I am not sure how to get it to work:

class clFile(file):
    
    def getFileName(blnExt=None):
        """
        file = path to file
        blnExt = show file extension (put in value other than 0 or
None to show the extension)
        """
        import os
        if blnExt:
            result = os.path.basename(file)
        else:
            result = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(file))[0]
        del os
        return result

    def getFileExt():
        import os.path
        result = os.path.splitext(file)[1]
        del os
        return result

    def getDir():
        import os
        result = os.path.dirname(file)
        del os
        return result

I wondered if there was a way to do something like the following:

myfile = clFile("c:\\somedir\\dir with spaces\\foo.txt")
myfile.getDir would return c:\somedir\dir with spaces\
myfile.getFileExt would return .txt
myfile.getFileName would return foo.txt or foo


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 11 18:16:12 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:16:12 -0500
Subject: Using doctest and executing a process
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJDODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEJEODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
> You may have better luck with, e.g.
>
> >>> os.open('/bin/ls').read()

Make that

>>> os.popen('/bin/ls').read()

or-insert-other-letters-at-random-until-it-actually-works-ly y'rs  - tim



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 19:58:27 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:58:27 +0000
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com>
 <a7diqu$7am$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9A680A.F00216D2@hotmail.com>
 <a7dtmd$dcj$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Us3ksJAzGom8Ew5Z@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

is this connected to motley-fool?
-Heavens to Murgatroyd-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Mar 20 22:55:14 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 03:55:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9imd2.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <m3pu1z91y6.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v.
Loewis wrote:
>mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:
>
>> I know there are several solutions available for building standalone
>> binary executables from Python programs (Freeze, py2exe, McMillan
>> Installer, etc.) -- I just wondered if it would be possible to add
>> functionality like this to distutils?
>
>That is certainly possible; freeze would be the obvious choice for
>such a mechanism (IMO).

Hm. I just tried freeze (with a simple 'print "Hello, world"') script
and it failed miserably, after first having frozen almost all the
modules in the standard library. In my experience (not very extensive
in this area), both py2exe and the McMillan installer have performed
much better... But that may be my fault, of course.

> Alas, distutils is unmaintained,

Really? A pity.

> so don't wait
> for anybody else to implement it for you.

I guess not. There is always the hope that if one gripes about
something someone else will be inspired to do something about it ;)

Oh, well. Maybe when I get lots of extra time...

>Regards,
>Martin

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar 22 14:47:26 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Namespace Qualification Question
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7C2A.20708@cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020322114726.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 22-Mar-2002 Craig McLean wrote:
> I've been messing around with python namespaces and I've run into 
> something that I haven't been able to answer.
> 
> Is there a module assosciated with the file you started the interpreter 
> with, and if there is what is it's name?  For instance
> 
>  > python qux.py
> 
> I would have thought that there would be a qux module, and that it's 
> name would be stored in the __name__ builtin.
> 
> If I was using the interpreter interactively would that change things?
> 

When run as a script its __name__ is '__main__'.  This is how all of those
python modules allow themselves to contain test code.

def my_func(arg):
  pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
  my_func()

if you import the above code (say it is in my.py) in an interpreter session or
in a script the __name__ will be 'my'.  If you run it as python my.py its name
is '__main__'.



From dragon at china.org  Sun Mar 10 23:43:47 2002
From: dragon at china.org (Qiang.JL)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:43:47 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <7CWi8.104549$aFN.34864@news1.bloor.is>

yeah. i have been following my post. thanks for everyone's input. It helps!

seems a lot people recommend C over C++, i would keep this in mind and get a
go at it.
i think i get a list of language to learn and go deeper now : Java, C, Perl,
Python, Lisp

actually i found an article on
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#BASIC_SKILLS
it recommend the same set as above i mentioned. but i got learning C not C++
this part clear now :)

Q.



"Qiang.JL" <dragon at china.org> wrote in message
news:NAmi8.54548$xG.5157 at news2.bloor.is...
> Hi,all
>
> apologize if this is off-topic :)
>
> I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
> stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two languages
to
> improve my language view. There are two languages are on the list: python
> and C++
> I have heard a lot ppl talk about C/C++,saying it's the must language to
> learn for a programmer.and i indeed feel so. but C/C++ is hard and may
need
> to take longer time to learn and get the concept.also, Python seems a good
> language and easier to learn.
> I think some of you may come cross this, so let me ask you these questions
>
> do i need to learn C/C++ to be a good programmer?
>
> which one is better to start with ? ( I'm not a program beginner so python
> being a beginner programmer maybe not be applied here)
>
> How many language do you think one should _master_? I think one or two is
> enough.learning others are letting you to learn the language concept and
> structure etc certainly helpful.
>
>
>
>
>
>




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 21 08:29:16 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 13:29:16 GMT
Subject: How to install pychecker?
References: <jgmj9ucgm47i87dp6eie5l5frn65ntfrpl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9jo1d.1pp.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Dale Strickland-Clark wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I thought I'd try this out.
> 
> In the absence of any instructions (that I can find) I tried unzipping
> it to a directory and running setup.py.
> 
> I got this:
> 
> C:\Program Files\pychecker-0.8.10>setup.py
> usage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
>    or: setup.py --help [cmd1 cmd2 ...]
>    or: setup.py --help-commands
>    or: setup.py cmd --help
> 
> error: no commands supplied
> 
> What am I supposed to do?

"python setup.py install", as with every Python package that uses
distutils.

Or read the comment at the top of the setup.py file ;-)

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 25 07:08:49 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:08:49 GMT
Subject: 2.2.1c1 platform experiences
References: <ueliczuqa.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <upu1syhg1.fsf@python.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> I've attempted to summarise the reports of people using 2.2.1c1 on
> various platforms here:
> 
>     http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/221c1-reports.txt

I've updated this quite a bit since posting here.  You may want to
check again.

> Can people fill in gaps, confirm/deny rumours, dig into the mentioned
> problems?
> 
> It might be best to email me rather than posting to the group, but
> I'll see it either way.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  QNX... the OS that walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but is,
  in fact, a platypus. ... the adventures of porting duck software 
  to the platypus were avoidable this time.
                                 -- Chris Klein, alt.sysadmin.recovery


From l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar 12 23:39:08 2002
From: l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:39:08 GMT
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com> <8B012C611E@kserver.org> <u8t5kbhc6qq587@corp.supernews.com> <a6la5r.3vseoif.1@kserver.org> <u8tgk3klouk179@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E9E41.3040300@sneakemail.com>

Scott Kurland wrote:

>>>>>Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?
>>>>>
>>>>>#Searching for perfect numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
>>>>>for number in range (1,howhigh):
>>>>> factorsum = 0
>>>>> halfnumber=number/2
>>>>> for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
>>>>>  if number/checking == int (number/checking):
>>>>>   factorsum = factorsum + checking
>>>>> if number == factorsum:
>>>>>  print number
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Well, I was expecting failure, which we got.  What I hoped for was the
>>>
> two
> 
>>>perfect numbers between 1 and 50, 6 and 28.

   As others pointed out, you're being bitten both by integer division 
and range not extending as high as you thought.  Change the 2 to 2.0 to 
force floating point in the division, add 1 to each of the end ranges, 
and use the modulo operator to do the comparison and it works:

howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
for number in range (1,howhigh + 1):
     factorsum = 0
     halfnumber=number / 2.0
     for checking in range (1, halfnumber + 1):
         if number % checking == 0:
             factorsum = factorsum + checking
     if number == factorsum:
         print number


How high should I check?50
6
28

On recent releases of Python (2.1+, I believe) you can also add the line:

from __future__ import division

to your program, which will make division behave the way you were expecting.



From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Thu Mar 21 14:30:53 2002
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 11:30:53 -0800
Subject: Pmw.ComboBox label_text param causes error
Message-ID: <ac677656.0203211130.6cdac25c@posting.google.com>

The Pmw ComboBox sample code at:

http://pmw.sourceforge.net/doc/ComboBox.html

shows label_text as one of the possible keyword arguments to the
constructor.  However, when I use it I get the error shown below.  I'd
appreciate assistance in figuring out the problem.


PythonWin 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (MarkH at ActiveState.com) -
see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> import Pmw
>>> Pmw.version()
'0.8.5'
>>> combo = Pmw.ComboBox(None, label_text="foo")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python21\lib\Pmw\Pmw_0_8_5\lib\PmwComboBox.py", line 139,
in __init__
    self.initialiseoptions(ComboBox)
  File "C:\Python21\lib\Pmw\Pmw_0_8_5\lib\PmwBase.py", line 557, in
initialiseoptions
    raise KeyError, text + string.join(unusedOptions, ', ') + \
KeyError: Unknown option "label_text" for ComboBox
>>>


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Mar 29 19:09:27 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:09:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Breaking String into Values
In-Reply-To: <HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203291846200.1400-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, robert garretson wright wrote:

> I am working on reading in a data file format which is set up as a series
> of lines that look like this:
>
> 3500035000010104A Foo 45
>
> I want to break up into a variables as follows:
> a = 35000, b = 35000, c = 10104, d = 'A', e = 'Foo', f = 45
>
> My current code (auto-generated from a data dictionary) looks
> something like this:
>
> temp = line[0:5]
> a = int(temp)
> temp = line[5:10]
> b = int(temp)
> temp = line[10:15]
> c = int(temp)
> temp = line[15:16]
> d = temp
> temp = line[16:20]
> temp = temp.rstrip()
> e = temp
> temp = line[20:23]
> f = int(temp)
>
> with a bit more error checking around the int() calls.
>
> Is there a better way to do this? The files have around 1000-8000 lines each
> so I would like it to be fast. Is there a package around that someone has
> coded up as a C-extension to do this?
>

"better" ?

I don't know if it's better, but you can do it more concisely with
something like this:

>>> a,b,c,d,e,f = [ f(s[i:j]) for i,j,f in ((0,5,int),
	(5,10,int),(10,15,int),(15,16,str),(16,20,str),(20,23,int))]


( in 2.2 -- earlier versions can do the same in a loop or a map() )

... probably a bit slower, but more readable I think.


Depending on what you're going to do with them, sometimes it makes
sense to load them as attributes of a class. I that case you can
add the variable names to the list and do a setattr():


class Thing:
	pass
athing = Thing()

for name,i,j,f in (('a',0,5,int),('b',5,10,int),('c',10,15,int),
			('d',15,16,str),('e',16,20,str),('f',20,23,int)):
	setattr(athing,name,f(s[i:j])



Sometimes, with data file conversion problems, I will make an intermediate
class to represent the abstract object, with methods to load from or dump
to the particular representation format.


Again -- it's more overhead to do it that way, but I've usually found
it worth it in the long run.

-- Steve Majewski





From emile at fenx.com  Tue Mar  5 17:50:21 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:50:21 -0800
Subject: Python song? (Re: Python isn't necessarily slow)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203050738280.30955-100000@ns0.tbye.com><86n0xmg2q4.fsf@skitty.catseye.net> <mailman.1015362693.984.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a63iec$ba967$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Cliff Wells"
> Tim Legant wrote:
> > Oh, are you from across the pond?  It was either Bronski Beat or the
> > Communards who did an interesting cover of Ain't Necessarily So in
the
> > early '80s - I think both groups were Brits....  It's in more of a
> > Broadway musical style than country, though.
>
> It was Bronski Beat (from "Age of Consent").  I don't recall who did
the
> original.
>

I'm going bet it's from Porgy & Bess by Gershwin.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Mar 21 17:37:17 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 16:37:17 -0600
Subject: Evaluation of intellectual products (was: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python])
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2C63E731EDC3F035.AA755C2524A64090.903E916ECF6E2F43@lp.airnews.net>

In article <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000 at mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
			.
			.
			.
>[OT: A question I've asked many times and got no answer to is 'why has
>nobody done self-consistent ranking for academic papers'?  I fear the
>answer is simply that most of the data is owned by a small number of
>companies who, as a result, have no real incentive to advance the state of
>the art.  Still, maybe somebody out there is trying to do it...]
>
>
>John
>

I don't know whether you're not familiar with ISI <URL:
http://www.isinet.com/isi/news/2001/productnews/8117876/index.html >,
or you *do* know them, but intend something different by "self-con-
sistent ranking for academic papers".
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From ggerrietts at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 20:01:19 2002
From: ggerrietts at yahoo.com (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:01:19 -0800
Subject: chopping a string
In-Reply-To: <m3bse3j1e4.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
References: <m3bse3j1e4.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <20020305010119.GK1792@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting David Bear (iddwb at moroni.pp.asu.edu):
> there's gotta be an easier way.  I have a string 
> "    something  somethingelse    "
> 
> note the leading a trailing whitespace.  I'd like to grab the first
> word and strip whitespace.  I came up with
> 
>  string.join(string.split(string.strip(str))[:1])
> 
> but I'm thinking, there must be a better way?  better means (faster) (smaller)..

That's probably what I would use, though if you're in a python that
supports string methods, you could do:

    str.strip().split()[0] or "".join(str.strip().split()[:1])

The latter registers as about 1.33 times faster than (takes 3/4 as
long as) the version above; the former is 2 times faster (runs in 1/2
the time).

You could maybe do with something with re:
    
    string.join(re.split("\s+",str)[:2])

But that won't work if you don't have leading whitespace, and it's
slower, if a bit more concise. My timings show 2500 iterations of this
at .14 seconds, while the method-based version clocks .06 and your
original at .08.

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <ggerrietts at yahoo.com>
-rw-rw-rw-:  permissions of the beast



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 09:25:19 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:25:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
References: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <Xns91D1A9EBA13CFduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a6shn9$9l6$1@crusher.de.colt.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D292B5EAE13duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tino Lange <tl_news at nexgo.de> wrote in
news:a6shn9$9l6$1 at crusher.de.colt.net: 

>> Yes, that will make a copy. But copying a list is a pretty efficient
>> operation, so no, it isn't really horribly inefficient. Have you
>> tried it and identified this as a bottleneck? How long are your lists
>> anyway? 
> 
> 3600 Elements each.
> 
> No I didn't check if it's a bottleneck. But I immediately didn't feel
> good when writing "return list(newlist)"
> (the list contains a list of strings itself - so it's much stuff to
> copy)
 
When Python copies your list, it doesn't copy the strings, just adds a new 
reference to each string. So roughly speaking your list copy involves 
copying 3600 pointers and incrementing 3600 reference counts. My PC (900MHz 
pentium) can create (and destroy) 10,000 copies of a list of 3600 strings 
in about 1 second. It takes about 5 seconds if I save all the intermediate 
values giving me a list of 10,000 lists.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar 11 15:04:34 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:04:34 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <OF7AB6021C.A1BD63DE-ON88256B79.006D9BFE@i2.com>

[Hernan M. Foffani]
|James, is it too difficult to extend java inherited classes
|to behave in a more pythonic tradition way?
|
|For instance, instead of collection.getCount() have the
|chance to use collection.__len__()?
|
|I guess that is not possible to override a superclass,
|right?

That's a good suggestion and we like doing that kind of thing when
possible.  And you *can* define Jython subclasses that inherit from and
override Java superclasses -- that being one of the things that makes
Jython so usable in a Java environment.

Two dimensional collections (e.g., tables) are trickier than one
dimensional sequences, however.  In such cases __len__ is not well-defined.

Jim Althoff
Senior Vice President
i2 Technologies, Inc.




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sat Mar 30 01:16:53 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:16:53 -0600
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <010101c1d7b2$92c1a7c0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org>


> I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
> a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.
>
> ...
>
>     Dear reviewers:
> 
>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
> 
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

Looks cool to me.

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

"True" sounds best to me.  Explicit is better and all that...

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>        and C99).

Proper case is Pythonic (based on existing usage of None, exception
names, etc.)
 
> ...
> 
>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>        to return a bool.

bool.  If you've got it, use it.

>...
> 
>     Some external libraries (like databases and RPC packages) need to
>     be able to distinguish between Boolean and integral values, and
>     while it's usually possible to craft a solution, it would be
>     easier if the language offered a standard Boolean type.

This is a VERY good reason IMHO.

>     The standard bool type can also serve as a way to force a value to
>     be interpreted as a Boolean, which can be used to normalize
>     Boolean values.  Writing bool(x) is much clearer than "not not x"
>     and much more concise than
>         if x:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return 0

Yes!  I LIKE it.

> ...
> 
>     There's also the issue (which I've seen puzzling even experienced
>     Pythonistas who had been away from the language for a while) that if
>     you see:
> 
>         >>> cmp(a, b)
>         1
>         >>> cmp(a, a)
>         0
>         >>> 
> 
>     you might be tempted to believe that cmp() also returned a truth
>     value.

This one bit me in the early days.

> ...
> 
>     I don't see this as a problem, and I don't want evolve the
>     language in this direction either; I don't believe that a stricter
>     interpretation of "Booleanness" makes the language any clearer.

Ditto.  "Language clarity" has been thrown around as a reason for all
kinds of much more invasive enhancements.  Python IS clear, and *very*
few constructs borrowed from other languages are going to improve it 
now.  Just two reserved words, True and False, in proper case, are not
going to break much and just might add some of the clarity that everyone
seems to want to add.
 
Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From RStephens at viteonline.com  Fri Mar  1 13:20:05 2002
From: RStephens at viteonline.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:20:05 -0500 
Subject: Black Adder and piquet
Message-ID: <2B69DFB47D76D3118B0100A0C9DED182010FB900@vi_nor_mail.vectron.com>

Thank you. If you do find the documentation you worked on, I would be glad
to have it and maybe I can add to it. Thanks

Ron Stephens

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Wayne Pierce [SMTP:wayne at mishre.com]
> Sent:	Friday, March 01, 2002 1:06 PM
> To:	Ron Stephens
> Cc:	python-list at python.org
> Subject:	Re: Black Adder and PyQt
> 
> 
> Ron Stephens wrote:
> > I am thinking of buying a "home" license of Black Adder, to use for
> > making GUI's for Python programs to be used on Linux+KDE and also
> > perhaps for the new Sharp Zaurus. Does anyone have any experience with
> > Black Adder that they can share? One of my main reasons for wanting
> > Black Adder is to use the GUI builder, so I am particualrly interested
> > in opinions about that aspect of Black Adder, but I am also interested
> > in other aspects as well.
> 
> I really like the GUI builder of BA, unfortunately I think it could use 
> more work.  Granted it is __still__ in beta, but it's been in beta for 
> quite a while without an update.  When I do GUI development I typically 
> do the first part in BA, then manually add in the GUI pieces that BA 
> doesn't support directly yet (like menus).
> 
> The only thing I don't like about the GUI builder is that it doesn't 
> support a lot of widgets yet.  The last I heard they were waiting for Qt3.
> 
> > One question I have concerns licensing. If I buy the "home" version,
> > could I still share my programs as GPL'ed open source, or would that
> > require me to buy the "professional" license, which is much more
> > expensive? In other words, my programs would never be used in any
> > commercial way but I might want to post them as open source, free 
> > software.
> 
> As I understand it, the only restriction on redistribution is if you are 
> distributing commercial apps.  Then you need the business edition to 
> redistribute Qt and the other modules.  It might be good to get the 
> scoop directly from them on this since I got the business edition and 
> haven't had to worry about it.
> 
> > I know Black Adder is still in beta, but is it stable enoough to use
> > already? I suppose I should ask how it compares to PythonWare amd
> > WingIDE, but I kind of favor the PyQt toolkit becuase it will
> > hopefully work well on the Sharp Zaurus as well as the KDE desktopI
> haven't had too many problems with BA's stability; typically I use BA 
> for the GUI design and syntax highlighting then compile and test in a 
> shell.  I've had some lockups when using the run from within BA in the 
> past, not all the time but I was never able to figure out what would 
> cause it so I just skipped it all together.
> 
> The documentation could use some work, most of the PyQT docs are in C++ 
> and can take some fiddeling to get right.  At one point I started to do 
> some documentation for BA to give to some coworkers, if I can find it 
> you are welcome to it (they decided to stick with Perl, so I never had 
> to finish it).
> 
> They have a mailing list (somewhere) for BA discussions, I forgot what 
> the address is and had it sent to an address I no longer have access to. 
> :(  If you do purchase BA, I would say skip the support and the option 
> to receive CDs.  In the time that I have had the program there hasn't 
> been an update, the support is so-so and they haven't ever sent a CD.
> 
> Even with all of that BA is usually the second program I open when I do 
> Python development (the shell is first).  The feature I like most is the 
> ability to collapse code blocks.
> 
> Wayne
> -- 
> Wayne Pierce
> web: http://www.mishre.com
> email: wayne at mishre.com
> 
> "What you need to know."



From olc at ninti.com  Sun Mar 31 07:08:12 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:38:12 +0930 (CST)
Subject: long integers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203312121140.1246-100000@localhost.localdomain>

G'day:

I'm using Python 1.5.2 and am having trouble with long integers when I
pull data out of a MySQL database using MySQLdb. When I retrieve a
numeric value from a field with an `int' data type, the value has an `L'
stuck on the end.

In one script, I worked around this by stripping the L off with:

var = numeric_id # ("2L")
var = var[:-1]
print var
>> 2

In this case, numeric_id was passed through a hidden field in an HTML
form. But this doesn't work in another script for some reason, where
the value is passed straight from a database query. I tried
converting the data type from number to string, but that doesn't work
either:

var = result[0] # ("2L")
var = 'var[:-1]'
print var
>> var[:-1]

So now I'm confused. I don't yet know enough Python to know what to try
now. Is there some easy way around this problem? Can this be fixed in
MySQL by changing or modifying the data type, or should I upgrade to a
later version of Python?

Thanks

Mick

-----------------------------
Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
-----------------------------




From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 13:21:20 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:21:20 +0000
Subject: PyQt installation problems on windows
References: <20020322164756.46454.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7620.6C239B08@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

Amit Mongia wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I have installed Python 2.2 , on my computer. I
> created a gui using Qt Designer and used pyuic to make
> a python file out of it.
> Now i want to run that file using the python
> interpreter. Whenever i try doing that it gives an
> error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "WrapperInterface.py", line 10, in ?
>     from qt import *
>   File "F:\PYTHON22\lib\qt.py", line 44, in ?
>     import libqtc
> ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files
> needed to run this applic
> ation cannot be found.
> 
> I even tried all the py and pyc file from PyQt/lib
> folder to Python22/lib folder and the same with the
> Dll files. but it still gives the same error. Can
> anyone offer a solution for this on windows.

What version of PyQt? What version of Qt?

Is libqtcmodule.pyd in F:\python22\dlls?

Is sip.dll (assuming you are not running a PyQt v3.1 pre-release
version) installed in a directory that is on your path?

Phil



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  8 04:07:19 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 10:07:19 +0100
Subject: undefined symbols when linking Python into a shared library
References: <3C8540B5.E133D407@freenet.de> <m3zo1m4mfx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C88031B.8A0FB866@freenet.de>
Message-ID: <m3zo1j2zso.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Michael Neuroth <michael.neuroth at freenet.de> writes:

> Thank you for the tip, now I can see, that the 'missing symbol' is
> exported from the shared library:
> 
>   000a7bac D _Py_NoneStruct
> 
> Is there any difference for exported (data) symbols, when loading
> a shared library with dlopen() instead of linking it 'statically' while
> creating the program file?

Certainly: If a symbol is missing in a program, the program cannot
resolve that symbol from a library opened through dlopen: For that to
work, the program would need to start executing. It cannot execute if
it has missing symbols.

> That is true of course. Is there any possibility to create a shared
> libraray for Python: libpython.so instead of libpython.a?

Not currently. On SF, there are a number of patches that provide this
facility. To get PIC objects, setting CFLAGS may be sufficient.

Regards,
Martin



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Mar  7 16:47:49 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:47:49 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <3c87d103.26130283@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-B61874.13474907032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3c87d103.26130283 at news.laplaza.org>,
 mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) wrote:

> If you'e going on to teach Python, you'd tell 'em those can of course
> be combined.

I don't want to teach Python.  I want to teach other stuff.  Python is 
close to an ideal language for this purpose: easy to just start using 
without spending a lot of time teaching it, easy to express algorithms 
as actual debugged working code without all the overhead of C/C++/Java 
(the other logical choices of languages, that the students already 
know).  But there are a few warts in the design, where instead of just 
using Python I have to stop and explain some unnatural unintuitive 
syntax.  Multi-parameter range() is one of those warts.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar  1 16:18:14 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:18:14 -0800
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Xns91C4AE233CF92rcamesz@amesz.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <3C7FF015.D1A00D13@ccvcorp.com>


Robert Amesz wrote:

> On Win98 I've found I had to quote *and* escape the quote characters,
> and - sometimes - backslashes too. I'm not sure if this is also the
> case on Win2000, but it's worth a try. This would yield something like:
>
> '\\"c:\\\\program files\\\\dimbo\\\\bongo.exe\\\\" \\"c:\\\\program
> files\\\\dumbo\\\\my file.dat\\"'
>
> Horrible, I know.

This is why raw strings exist.

>>> mystring1 = '\\"c:\\\\program files\\\\dimbo\\\\bongo.exe\\\\"
\\"c:\\\\program files\\\\dumbo\\\\my file.dat\\"'
>>> print mystring1
\"c:\\program files\\dimbo\\bongo.exe\\" \"c:\\program files\\dumbo\\my
file.dat\"
>>> mystring2 = r'\"c:\\program files\\dimbo\\bongo.exe\" \"c:\\program
files\\dumbo\\my file.dat\"'
>>> # note!     ^ the 'r' here!
>>> print mystring2
\"c:\\program files\\dimbo\\bongo.exe\" \"c:\\program files\\dumbo\\my
file.dat\"
>>>

Note that you've got an extra backslash in your version -- you want a
single escaped double quote after 'bongo.exe', not an escaped backslash
followed by an unescaped double quote.  Raw strings will save you much
pain.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From calves at coelce.com.br  Mon Mar 11 13:07:03 2002
From: calves at coelce.com.br (Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:07:03 -0300
Subject: ENC: lambda question
Message-ID: <29A97D00F387D411AC7900902770E148044AB531@lcoeexc01.coelce.net>

See the error below:

>>> def exe1(f,list):
	return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
SyntaxError: local name 'f' in 'exe1' shadows use of 'f' as global in nested
scope 'lambda' (<pyshell#7>, line 1)
>>> 


> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Bertrand Geston [mailto:bergeston at yahoo.fr] 
> Enviada em: segunda-feira, 11 de mar?o de 2002 14:46
> Para: python-list at python.org
> Assunto: Re: lambda question
> 
> 
> lambda questionBoth work on my computer:
> 
> PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit 
> (Intel)] on win32.
> Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond 
> (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
> 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
> >>> def exe1(f,list):
> ...  return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> ...
> >>> f='x**3+2*x'
> >>> list=[0,1,2,0]
> >>> map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> [0, 3, 12, 0]
> >>> exe1(f,list)
> [0, 3, 12, 0]
> >>>
> 
> If you give us the kind of error, problem hou have, you will 
> help us to help
> you.
> TIA ;-)
> 
> "Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce" <calves at coelce.com.br> wrote 
> in message
> news:mailman.1015866267.21439.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all,
> Look at the two codes below
> first code:
>         f='x**3+2*x'
>         list=[0,1,2,0]
>         map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> second code:
>         def exe1(f,list):
>                 return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> Can someone explain to me why the first code works while 
> second doesn't.
> Carlos Alberto
> COELCE/DPRON-Departamento de Projetos e Obras Norte
> Fone: 677- 2228
> e-mail: calves at coelce.com.br
> \|||/
> (o o)
> --ooo0-(_)-0ooo--
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Mon Mar 11 08:00:19 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:00:19 +0100
Subject: newbie needs help with tkinter
References: <1Myi8.13667$%d1.409160@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <a6i9p3$eip6d$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Beeing newbie myself, I played with you code, here is the result:

-----------------------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

class Application(Frame):
    def __init__(self,master=None):
        Frame.__init__(self,master)
        menubar=self.addmenubar()
        master.config(menu=menubar)
        w=Label(self,fg="green",text="*")
        self.pack()
        w.grid()

    def addmenubar(self):
        menubar=Menu()
        filemenu=Menu(menubar)
        menubar.add_cascade(menu=filemenu,label="File")
     filemenu.add_command(label="Configura", command=self.configframe)
        filemenu.add_command(label="Lavora")
        return menubar

    def configframe(self):
        self.config(bg="yellow")
        w=Label(self,fg="blue",text="prova")
        w.grid()
        self.update_idletasks()
        print "hello!"

#main

root=Tk()
applicazione=Application(root)
root.mainloop()

-----------------------------------------------------------

"Sacchi" <sacchi at nospamfreemail.it> wrote in message
news:1Myi8.13667$%d1.409160 at twister2.libero.it...
> I've just learned the main rules of python(I already knew both java and
> C). Now I'm trying to get something out of Tkinter, but while running
> this sample program (made by myself) I encountered a problem. I wanted
> that by clicking on the "configura" command under the "File" menu the
> frame would get yellow and that a label would appear on it. The
> function works(the line "print "hello!"" gets executed) but the gui
> window doesn't change. I even tried to use the widget redraw methods
> but with no success... anyone can help me please?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Marco
>
> --------- Program Code ----------------------
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> class Application(Frame):
>
>         def __init__(self,master=None):
>                 Frame.__init__(self,master)
>                 menubar=self.addmenubar()
>                 master.config(menu=menubar)
>                 menubar.mainloop()
>
>         def addmenubar(self):
>                 menubar=Menu()
>                 filemenu=Menu(menubar)
>                 menubar.add_cascade(menu=filemenu,label="File")
> #these lines got shifted by the newsreader program, but all belong to
> #the addmenubar function
> filemenu.add_command(label="Configura"command=self.configframe)
>         filemenu.add_command(label="Lavora")
>                 return menubar
>
>         def configframe(self):
>                 self.set(bg="yellow")
>                 w=Label(self,fg="blue",text="prova")
>                 w.grid()
>                 self.update_idletasks()
>                 print "hello!"
>
> #main
>
> root=Tk()
> applicazione=Application(root)
> root.mainloop()
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------
> remove "nospam" from email address to answer
> -----------------------------------------------------




From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Mar 11 22:44:13 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:44:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com> <gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com>  <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8qucd.343.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1 at posting.google.com>, damien
morton wrote:
[snip]
>> No.  That is NOT a good reason to change a language in an inconsistent way.
>
>The 'in' operator is now a verb that can be defined to mean pretty
>much any function with two arguments.

Well, yes, it could be made to print out both its arguments, for
instance, but why would that be a good idea? It is (in the main
language and standard libraries) as a container membership operator.
Using it as something else is possible, but seems like a strange thing
to do -- and to suggest such a change in parts of the language itself
is even stranger.

>It cant be a set membership operator because python doesnt have sets.

Yet. There is a PEP on the way, and the membership operator will
certainly function in the expected way there as well.

> The issue at stake is that its meaning should be well understood.

Yes.

> Strings are like sequences in that their individual elements
> (characters ONLY) can be accessed as a sequence, but there are
> important differences in the kinds of things people want to do with
> strings.

What do you mean? In Python (and all programming languages I can think
of at the moment) strings are sequences. I think "a sequence of
characters" is a reasonable model of a string (since the word "string"
means "(1) a series of things arranged in or as if in a line, (2) a
sequence of like items"). It seems that you are suggesting that
strings are to be modelled as "a set of substrings" or something.

>From the persepective of an english speaker, the the string 'fox' is
>IN the string 'the quick brown fox'.

No it isn't. It's in the *phrase* 'the quick brown fox', which isn't a
sequence of characters, but a sequence of *words*. What you're looking
for is

  'fox' in 'the quick brown fox'.split()

Or, if you insist that 'ox' is IN the string 'fox' (with 'in' meaning
'is a part of'), wouldn't you also say that the sequence 3, 4, 5 can
be found IN the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6? But would you say that this
interpretation of the word 'in' should be used in Python? That would
make things very ambiguous:

>>> (3, 4, 5) in (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
1
>>> (3, 4, 5) in (1, 2, (3, 4, 5), 6)
1

> Under the covers, the IN operator is defined as the __contains__
> function.

Method, actually.

> Clearly, the string 'the quick brown fox' CONTAINS the string 'fox'.

As a substring, yes. As an element, no. The string 'fox' cannot be
said to be a member of the string 'the quick brown fox'.

> I think the verb IN means something slightly different for strings
> than it does for sequences and dicts.

What about sets? A set certainly CONTAINS a subset -- do you think
the membership operator should be used as a subset operator in the
upcoming set type? In that case, what should be used as a membership
operator? Or perhaps you think it should be used as both, making
things ambiguous?

> Check this out:
>
> ('fox' in 'the quick brown fox')
> ('the quick brown fox'.find('fox') != -1)
>
> Which of these expressions is clearer, more intuitive and
> convenient?

Are you saying that making one sequence behaving unlike all others is
clear and intuitive? It may be 'convenient', but that's a common and
dangerous trap.

Just to poke another hole in your suggestion -- what would the
following code produce?

  for x in 'the quick brown fox':
      print x

If you want the members of the string to be words, it should produce

the
quick
brown
fox

If you want to include all substrings, it should produce

<empty line>
t
th
the
...
the quick brown fox
h
he
he q
he qu

Etc.

And how would you number the elements? If s is the string above,
should s[0] be 'the' or ''? Or perhaps it should be 't', making the
proposal thoroughly self-inconsistent?

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar 12 04:45:25 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:45:25 GMT
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com> <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au> <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015882525.3222.python-list@python.org> <m3ofhuy6g4.fsf@salesman.cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <u4rjmt8u0.fsf@python.net>

Christopher Browne <cbbrowne at acm.org> writes:

> I'd love to see Vyper go further; it's a neat approach to the
> "wouldn't it be neat to static type Python?" question.

Well, I'm half of the vyper developers on sf.  I think the only
check-in I've made was to add a .cvsignore file.

> The thing that seemed particularly neat was the way it added in
> ML-style pattern matching.
> 
> I have a feeling that what has happened isn't so much that people
> started farting in the author's general direction ("your mother smells
> like elderberries!"), but that it was a one man show, and that nobody
> really took interest in it.

I think what happened was that he got a job.  I'm *interested* in it,
but I don't even have time to keep up with the bug reports against
Python <wink>.

> In effect, it may be just like most of the SourceForge projects that
> get started up by someone that thinks they have an idea, but who never
> get around to any usable degree of completion.

Vyper is usable, although I don't know whether it works with the
latest releases of ocaml.  It just doesn't offer any real advantages
over CPython.  It's also quite a bit slower.

If people want to pick it up, the code's there, and I'm sure John
could be persuaded to give you developer status...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  CLiki pages can be edited by anybody at any time. Imagine the most
  fearsomely comprehensive legal disclaimer you have ever seen, and
  double it                        -- http://ww.telent.net/cliki/index


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 09:11:56 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:11:56 -0500
Subject: relational database?
References: <pRzp8.4373$hi7.15765@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3eli1m2dt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <5yEp8.5051$hi7.18667@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3CA7192C.E1C8974A@engcorp.com>

Trung Hoang wrote:
> 
> "Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
> news:m3eli1m2dt.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> > "Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:
> >
> > > What relational database is easy to setup and use with python?
> >
> > Gadfly.  It is a pure-Python database, and requires little
> > administrative interaction.  It does not provide good performance,
> > though...

> where can i get this ?

Try Google?


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 10:09:44 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:09:44 +0000
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <u94n0p932q6j12@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a6trfp$f65$2@peabody.colorado.edu>

John Roth wrote:

> 
> Putting something into the start menu is dead easy. Just put a
> link to the appropriate file into "c:Windows/Start Menu/Programs"
> Note the blank, and watch your capitalization. Windows is
> flaky about capitalization.
> 

This is only for win9x. Win2k/xp have per-user Start Menu dirs, and their 
location must be retrieved from the registry (Def. is C:\documents and 
settings\user-name\Start Menu, but it can vary). So to have this be reliable, 
there's no way around diving into the pleasures of the registry.

f.


From mwh at python.net  Sat Mar  9 11:31:23 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:31:23 GMT
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com> <3C88E7B4.A910D281@earthlink.net> <ubsdzt27l.fsf@python.net> <7xvgc6k6ja.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <u8z914s3o.fsf@python.net>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> > The combination of lazy evaluation and non-functional semantics are
> > only good for creating confusion.
> > 
> >          functional        non-functional
> > strict       ml                 python
> > lazy       haskell               brrr
> 
> What do xrange, xreadlines, etc. do, if not lazy evaluation?

I was talking about lazy (or to be accurate, non-strict) evaluation as
being a property of the language.

In Haskell-talk a function is strict if it evaluates to bottom when
applied to bottom (here "bottom" is the "result" of evaluating an
invalid expression, say a non-terminating loop or 1/0).

See here for more info:

http://www.haskell.org/tutorial/functions.html#sect3.3

This concept doesn't really exist in Python because all functions --
including xrange, xreadlines & co -- are strict in all arguments.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  There's an aura of unholy black magic about CLISP.  It works, but
  I have no idea how it does it.  I suspect there's a goat involved
  somewhere.                     -- Johann Hibschman, comp.lang.scheme


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sat Mar 16 21:03:55 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:03:55 GMT
Subject: Help with a Python ASP C extension module ...
References: <40ee0487.0203152316.70c12a49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C93F993.3010109@skippinet.com.au>

Eric Vasilik wrote:
> I am writing a C extension to Python.  The reason I am writing an
> extension is that I believe that the implementation of
> Response.BinaryWrite() in the Window's ASP extension (I am using
> Active State's Python 2.1) is not releasing the global interpreter
> lock.  

I am almost certain that it does.  All COM calls release the GIL. 
Response is an IDispatch object.  This means that the call is made via 
either PyIDispatch::Invoke, or PyIDispatch::InvokeTypes.  These release 
the lock.

 > I am getting very poor performace using it and I believe that
> my server is not taking advantage of writing out multiple streams
> because of the global lock.

I am not sure what makes you believe Reponse.Write is to blame.  It is 
more likely that another Python thread is "busy" somewhere other than 
Response.Write or fileIO.

> Instead of writing out a response with:
> 
>     Response.BinaryWrite( buffer( open( fileName, 'rb' ).read() ) )
> 
> I am now doing the following:
> 
>     PythonExt.binaryWriteFile( Response, fileName )

OK - but don't be surprised if you see pretty much the same thing.  You 
are removing a little Python overhead, but not alot.

> The difference between these two is that the first calls the default
> implementation of Response.BinaryWrite and the second calls an
> extension I have written which reads the file and writes it out to
> response, all while the interpreter lock is released.

The former Python version will do all the significant work (ie, the file 
open, read and response.write call) with the lock released too.  Some of 
the IDispatch mechanics will be avoided though, as will the multiple 
lock transitions involved in the Python version.

> My problem, is I cannot find any documentation on how to get a hold of
> the IResponse object from the Python Response object.  I need to get
> it so that I may call BinaryWrite on without going back into the
> Python interpreter.

Going via IResponse should speed things up a tiny bit too.  Basically, 
the "Response" object is a class instance, and the attribute "_oleobj_" 
is the PyIDispatch object.  So you need something like:

   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple("Os", &pyResponse, &filename)) ...
   PyObject *pydisp = PyObject_GetAttrString(pyResponse, "_oleobj_");
   if (!pydisp) ...
   // now get the object.
   if (!PyCom_InterfaceFromPyObject(pydisp,
           IID_IRESPONSE,
           (void **)&pResponse,
           FALSE /* None is not valid */ )) ...
    Py_DECREF(pydisp);
    ... use pResponse
    pResponse->Release();


Using PyCom_InterfaceFromPyObject() means you will need to include 
pythoncom.h, and link against pythoncomxx.lib - which means you will 
need to build pythoncom from sources - see 
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/BuildingExtensions.html

Mark.



From jar at mminternet.com  Wed Mar 13 00:29:50 2002
From: jar at mminternet.com (James A Roush)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:29:50 -0800
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
Message-ID: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com>

Does anyone have any code that, given that absolute URL of a web page, can 
convert all the relative URLs on that page to their absolute equivalent?
-- 
-----------------------
James A Roush
jar @ mminternet.com
-----------------------


From klaatu at evertek.net  Wed Mar 13 16:46:30 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:46:30 -0600
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
In-Reply-To: <E04538FF-369C-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov>; from rasmussn@lanl.gov on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 09:10:45AM -0700
References: <slrna8su7t.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <E04538FF-369C-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov>
Message-ID: <20020313154630.B12827@evertek.net>

* rasmussn at lanl.gov <rasmussn at lanl.gov> [2002-13-03 09:10]:
> After all, the GPL forbids linking GPL code with non GPL code, i.e.
> MS libraries.  At least I think so from reading the GPL FAQ
> (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html).  For example, in answer to
> 
> I am writing free software that uses non-free libraries. What legal issues 
> come up if I use the GPL?
> 
> [quote from the GNU GPL faq]
> 
> Since VC++ is not normally distributed with the operating system, I would 
> assume
> that MS VC++ libraries are not compatible with GPL code.

But the core MS VC++ libraries are distributed with Windows 98 and
higher, and are at least commonly available on virtually all Windows
systems (Unless a system is very old and isolated, it probably has some
version of msvcrt.dll on it, as well as mfc42.dll).

As I see it (though I'm no lawyer, let alone copyright law expert), the
restrictions become A., if the PythonLabs team upgrades to a newer
version of Visual C++, they can no longer distrubute updated runtimes
with Python, and B., people cannot use newer versions of Microsoft tools
to develop multi-language products involving Python or any other open
source software, and distribute runtimes with that (which basically
outlaws creating VB-Python combination programs).  And one cannot use
open-source tools to build any part of an application that will have
Microsoft runtimes distributed with it.

But that's just my $.02 - correct me if I'm wrong on anything please!

-Mike


> 
> Now I should rush to point out that I don't know this to be the reason
> for Microsoft's license, I'm just wondering.  Anyone more familiar with
> the law in this area care to comment?
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 11 14:31:08 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:31:08 -0500
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
In-Reply-To: <ak7j8.19376$N7.4421203@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEICODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[brobbins333 at shaw.ca]
> I understand and agree with what you are saying.  However,it is
> possible in some languages (VB, for example) to return a numerical
> result from a function with only two (or any other number) of decimal
> places.

The VB Currency type is a 64-bit signed integer under the covers, implicitly
scaled by 10,000.  That's similar to a FixedPoint(4) if you use my
FixedPoint.py class, although a FixedPoint(4) has no restriction on the
magnitude, while a VB Currency value is restricted to the range

    -922,337,203,685,477.5808 <= Currency <= 922,337,203,685,477.5807

You should re-read the responses you've gotten, because they're exactly on
target.  The details are everything here.




From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 01:37:57 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:37:57 -0600
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from popen
In-Reply-To: <slrna8bou9.1sd.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLAEJGDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Stefan Heimann wrote:
> f = os.popen('cvs status 2>&1')
> does the right thing, but does not work on all platforms.

I'm sure it doesn't work on *all* platforms, but it works
for me on Windows 2000.  I'm sure someone here knows the
details on this; I don't.  Give it a try.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From gleki at gol.ge  Tue Mar  5 17:26:11 2002
From: gleki at gol.ge (Giorgi Lekishvili)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:26:11 -0800
Subject: Can Python do this?
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1015316109.21725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C854603.8F567948@gol.ge>

Hi!

Can you tell me little bit more why is this a bad idea to use exec/eval?
Where can I find more information?

Thank you in advance.
Greetings,
Giorgi

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Le 04/03/02 ? 12:51, Robert Oschler ?crivit:
> > Hello, Python newbie here.
> >
> > Let's say I'd like to build a method name into a string variable (e.g.
> > "FuncCall" + "1" to attempt to call "FuncCall1").  Can I then call that
> > method by somehow having the interpreter evaluate the string variable into a
> > call to the desired method? (I know this is usually done in a language like
> > Prolog or Lisp but I'm hoping Python can do it too.)
>
> This can easily be done with the built-ins eval and exec. But in 99 % of
> all cases, it's a really bad idea to use them. Perhaps you can tell us
> what you're trying to accomplish anyway? There's usually a better way
> than (ab)using eval/exec.
>
> Gerhard
> --
> This sig powered by Python!
> Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 5.7 ?C      Wind: 2.1 m/s



From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Mon Mar 11 13:12:04 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:12:04 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org> <a6f0fl$u8n$0@216.39.172.122> <NuMi8.333338$Aw2.26927026@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6gfo6$b3e$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <Ur6j8.45237$hO6.3379682@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <a6gfo6$b3e$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:13:17 GMT, "G. Sumner Hayes" <sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com> wrote:
> 
>>In article <a6f0fl$u8n$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>Ugh, I can see learning Python first but definitely learn C before
>>C++.  In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns of design
>>you absorb solving problems with C++.
>>
>>Seriously, the point of using a low-level language like C or C++ 
>>is to get next to the hardware, and it should be learned from that 
>>level first IMO.  Otherwise, stay with a more productive language 
>> like Python.
>>
> If you are just going to use the low level stuff (unless you are 
> talking about assembler within C++), you might as well use C.

Exactly my point.

> ISTM C++ was designed to let you *build* "levels" with layers of abstraction
> through objects and generics.

And IMO it's a really bad language for _learning_ those techniques.  Learn
Python and C first, get a clean understanding of C, and then learn C++
if you need to for pragmatic reasons.

> IOW, one group can work at low level
> to produce elements that others can use at high level. E.g., instatiating
> an mp3-playing object and calling the play method is pretty trivial and high level,
> yet the same C++ language can be used to write the guts of almost everything involved.

Sure, you can write that object in C or even asm and have a high-level
interface.  If an OO approach is warranted for the problem at hand, C++
offers more language support for that programming style than C, but by
that point you should really be thinking hard about whether either language
is appropriate.

Seriously, C++ was designed with backwards compatibility as a primary
goal and not as a clean OO (or otherwise) language.  The language itself
(not incl. the library) is huge, has a lot of warts, and is in my experience
prone to confuse beginning programmers and give them bad habits that are
tough to shake later.

> If you really want to get intimate with the[1] hardware, even C is 
> mostly isolating you from true carnal knowledge. Get an assembler[2], 
> and choose every instruction and every data location and access thereto. 

Right, that's why I listed "some platform's assembler" as one of the 4-5
first languages a beginning programmer who wants to master the craft
should learn (along with "some statically typed functional language"
(e.g. OCAML, Haskell), "some high-level dynamic OO language (e.g. Python,
Ruby), C (as _the_ systems language and the basis for many other language
implementations), and possibly a dynamic functional language (Lisp) or
a declaritive language (Prolog) to expand the mind).

> [2] OTOH, you'd be surprised what level chunks you can build with macros
>     in a good macro assembler.

esp. Borland Object-Oriented Turbo Assembly.  Double ugh.

>>> If you start with C, you will get used to a procedural way of looking
>>> at problems, and when you get to C++ you will be tempted to see it
>>> as just C with extra features. You'll have to dislodge yourself from C
>>> habits of thinking in order to "think objects" in C++. Coming from
>>
>>Conversely, if you learn in the other order you'll find yourself thinking
>>of it as a limited version of C++ instead of a different language with
>>its own idiom.  The point of C is that it's procedural, small, and close
>>to the metal.  Viewing without the corrupting lens of C++ is extremely
>>valuable, IMO.
>>
> I don't know what you mean by "corrupting lens of C++,"
> other than a rhetorical counter point ;-)

Rephrase as "learn C without having the C++ way stuck in your head, but
take it as a small procedural language that gets you deep inside details
about memory management and data type implementation".

> But even if you just want to learn C, you can largely use C++ as if
> it were C.

But the point of C is that it's very small (relative to C++) and much
easier to get a handle on.  If you need to figure out which subset of
the language to use, you miss the whole point.

C++ is big, gross, and useful.  For real-world problems, the useful part
is very important, but I personally think it's a really bad language
to start out in until well after learning OO techniques and C-style
procedural coding.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Sat Mar  2 12:20:04 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:20:04 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for
	numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 3/2/02 10:53 AM, in article
mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list at python.org, "Paul F Dubois"
<paul at pfdubois.com> wrote:

> I also see the underflow problem on my Linux box 2.4.2-2. This is
> certainly untenable. However, I am able to catch OverflowError in both
> cases. I had a user complain about this just yesterday, so I think it is
> a new behavior in Python 2.2 which I was just rolling out.

It's not Python 2.2 itself:

% python
Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 10 2002, 13:29:43)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0

-- F



From geiseri at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 13:33:37 2002
From: geiseri at yahoo.com (ian reinhart geiser)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:33:37 -0500
Subject: interactive python shell
Message-ID: <200203271333.38160.geiseri@yahoo.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greetings
	I have an python application and I would like to provide a "console" in the 
application where users can have an interactive session with python that has 
all of the applications enviroment.  This is for debugging the system in real 
time.

	Is there an easy way to do this?  All it needs to do is execute commands and 
return data.  I am using PyQt for my GUI, so it would be cool to fit into 
there, but I can get away with a input line and a display view if that is 
easier.  This is not for production, only to make a more useful debug tool.

TIA

- -ian reinhart geiser
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Mar  4 16:08:05 2002
From: quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 21:08:05 GMT
Subject: Can Python do this?
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <7xvgccm5f5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrna87ohl.mtm.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 04 Mar 2002 12:41:50 -0800, Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>    x = my_class()                   # x is an instance of some class
>    method_name = "FuncCall" + "1"   # gives "FuncCall1"
>    method = getattr(x, method_name) # find the method
>    method (args)                    # call the method
>
>is preferable to using eval, if method_name is actually defined for
>my_class.  However, if method_name is only defined for some class that
>my_class inherits from, and not from my_class itself, then this won't
>work.

Really?

Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 25 2000, 13:33:13) 
[GCC 2.8.1] on irix6-n32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class A:
...  def m(self): pass
... 
>>> class B(A):
...  pass
... 
>>> a = B()
>>> a
<__main__.B instance at 100e3f14>
>>> a.m
<method A.m of B instance at 100e3f14>
>>> getattr(a, 'm')
<method A.m of B instance at 100e3f14>
>>> 

Or did you mean something else?


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar  6 21:15:50 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:15:50 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015444452.19436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86CD56.F8D213A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> [Andy Gimblett]
> > This just came to me:
> >
> > for index in indices(items):
> >     pass
> >
> > or maybe better yet:
> >
> > for index in items.indices():
> >     pass
> 
> Warning: the latter could get you into trouble with the "methods are
> overrated" crowd <wink>.

It would also preclude doing smart things like
using the __len__ of an object if there wasn't
a more specific method available.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar  3 15:44:49 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 03 Mar 2002 21:44:49 +0100
Subject: Newbie question
References: <3c810efa.475638531@mammoth.usenet-access.com>
Message-ID: <m3it8dwfcu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

netzapper at magicstar.net (A. Jones) writes:

> What is the function that forces conversion to a three-quote string?
> 
> I need to save a string that has a LOT of \n's in it, and need to save
> both the formatting and the \'ns.
> 
> I checked the manuals (and the online lists of functions), and all I
> came up with was str(), which doesn't do the tripple quote.  

It doesn't need to generate triple quotes, because it will do the
escaping of \n correctly.

If you want to output a string in Python source format, but using
triple quotes, I believe you have to implement this yourself.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 06:37:42 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 12:37:42 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <m3ofh6s2ux.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> > How will bool influence '__nonzero__'? Currently, Python insists that
> > '__nonzero__ should return an int'. Will this be changed to 'should
> > return a bool'?
> 
> I hope so.
> 
> > As that would break existing code, I hope not.
> 
> No, "should" != "must".  Guido won't call code that returns an int here
> broken, although he might call it deprecated, and leave you wondering when
> the hammer will drop <wink>.

Interestingly enough, the exception message says "__nonzero__ should
return an int" but really means "__nonzero__ must return an int".  I
guess under this PEP, the message needs to be changed to "should
return a bool", but not the test (or, if you want it more explicit:
"__nonzero__ must return an int and should return a bool" :-)

Regards,
Martin



From Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com  Tue Mar 26 11:59:29 2002
From: Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com (Gabe Newcomb)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:59:29 -0800
Subject: Python Books Galore
Message-ID: <0C7CA8D8DF75494EB09AB6016990107F011B186D@NOXMAIL.noetixad.com>

Aye aye!

I was thinking of writing a message like this myself. I can't believe
what our options are like now.

I'm still looking forward to a printed Python Cookbook-type-deal.

Gabe




In article <a37970$irg$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>, "Raymond Hettinger"
<othello at javanet.com> wrote:

[snip]
> I went back yesterday and found a full row (3 1/2 to 4 feet) filled
with
> Python books. 
[snip]
> This has got to be a good sign.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From garyr at fidalgo.net  Fri Mar 29 21:31:56 2002
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Garyr)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:31:56 -0800
Subject: Program termination problem
References: <ua6r509m5uradc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <uaa8vndfp2997@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks for your replies.

The Tkinter selection_get(selection='CLIPBOARD') code works fine but the
program still hangs when invoked from a DOS window but does terminate
OK when invoked from an icon.


"Garyr" <garyr at fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:ua6r509m5uradc at corp.supernews.com...
> I have a program that displays a Tkinter Text widget. I would like to be
> able to place text in the window via the clipboard. I found the following
> clipboard code in a Google post:
>
> import win32clipboard as clip
>          ...
>         clip.OpenClipboard(0)
>         if clip.IsClipboardFormatAvailable(clip.CF_TEXT):
>            newText = clip.GetClipboardData(clip.CF_TEXT)
>           textwidget.insert(END, newText)
>         clip.CloseClipboard()
>
> This works but it causes the program to hang on exit. mainloop() returns
but
> the DOS window is frozen. The problem is associated with the clipboard
> functions; i.e., commenting the insert line has no effect.
>
> I'm using Python 2.1 (Pythonwin 2.1.211) on Win98.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Gary Richardson
>
>










From andy.mckay at merlinsoftech.com  Wed Mar  6 19:56:23 2002
From: andy.mckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:56:23 -0800
Subject: Python on W2K server and dos batch files?
In-Reply-To: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net>
References: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net>
Message-ID: <200203070056.g270uDq16863@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

On March 6, 2002 11:38 am, you wrote:
> I would appreciate if you can tell me if Python is a good fit for what I
> want to do.  If not, please recommend another solution.

Yes it will do all that easily. Mind you are asking a Python list. 

Look at  the ActivePython distribution and all the win32all components which 
will give you access to lots of useful Windows stuff.
-- 
  Andy McKay



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 11:18:31 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:18:31 -0600
Subject: dynamic loading of modules
In-Reply-To: <000701c1c528$8acfea50$c19949d5@dkn02>
References: <000701c1c528$8acfea50$c19949d5@dkn02>
Message-ID: <15494.16727.684258.607639@beluga.mojam.com>

    Henry> I would like to be able to compound variables that will then form
    Henry> the name of the particular module to be loaded into the active
    Henry> script.

Take a look at the docs for the exec statement and the __import__ builtin
function.  Briefly:

    mname = raw_input("enter a module name: ")
    exec "import %s"%mname in globals()

or

    mname = raw_input("enter a module name: ")
    m = __import__(mname, globals())
    print m.__doc__

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Mar  8 00:45:06 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 05:45:06 GMT
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7ckg8u0dsk9lpmje0p3cd04fca0flic69n@4ax.com>

>P.S. I am just trying to understand and do not intend to put down python by 
>any means.

Python is extremely dynamic; as a consequence, the most straightforward
and easy to maintain implementation of Python language will by necessity
be an exercise in processing strings. Often by hashing. That's expensive.

C//



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar  7 13:02:18 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:02:18 +0100
Subject: very newbie question
References: <61ff32e3.0203070659.28cf5e1c@posting.google.com> <1015517718.445890@news.commspeed.net>
Message-ID: <a689ug$btkvc$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Probably not saved at all !
Try this in Idle:
menu File - Save as (choose a pretty name ending by .py and click on button
Save)
Run
Read status bar if nothing happens !

"Tom Babbitt" <tbabbitt at commspeed.net> wrote in message
news:1015517718.445890 at news.commspeed.net...
>
> "ron nixon" <ron at ire.org> wrote in message
> news:61ff32e3.0203070659.28cf5e1c at posting.google.com...
> > I've got a script called snakes saved to my c: drive and I want to run
> > it from IDLE. By when I do file open and run script, I get an invalid
> > syntax message. Likewise if I write the script in IDLE and hit "run
> > script" it get a message saying that says "the buffer for Python Shell
> > is not saved. Please save it first." Soooo. With all that being said.
> > How do I save a script and then get python to execute it from IDLE(and
> > where in the documentation is this?)
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
> It's not clear why you want to run your program from IDLE, you mite want
to
> just run it with phython (ie 'c:\Python22\python snakes.py' (you could
need
> to rename the filename to *.py)).
>
> Tom Babbitt
>
>




From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar  6 08:52:42 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:52:42 +0000
Subject: Status of PEP's?
In-Reply-To: <3C861BEB.60701@destiny.com>
References: <3C861BEB.60701@destiny.com>
Message-ID: <20020306135242.GB10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 08:38:51AM -0500, Michael Chermside wrote:
> Not that my opinion means anything, but I'll go ahead and express it anyhow.
> 
>  1) I think that  "for i in range(len(items)):"  is awkward, annoying,
>     and detracts from Python. There should be a better way.

This just came to me:

for index in indices(items):
    pass

or maybe better yet:

for index in items.indices():
    pass

?

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Fri Mar  1 03:04:58 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:04:58 +0900
Subject: PyQT and shaped windows in X
References: <d906b2c1.0202280334.35f7942f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <VrGf8.481$Az6.1923@news.hananet.net>

Moray Taylor wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone point me in the direction of an example of shaped windows
> using QT with Python, is the XLib module required? Is it even
> possible?
> 

I really doubt there is one.

> BTW I have tried asking in the PyQT/PyKDE mailing list, but it wasn't
> considered to be a PyQT question, go figure.
> 

This is a Qt question - not a PyQt one. You'll probably figure out how to 
do it, but it will take a lot of study and experimentation. Perhaps you 
should investigate Xt, as there is a QXtWidget and QXtApplication class 
available in Qt.

The silence was because no one knows how to do it, not because it was a 
stupid question or because we don't like you.

Jonathan


From theller at python.net  Wed Mar 20 05:27:30 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:27:30 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a79jmp$jg0ba$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <j41yefk0tw.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a79o73$iirln$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Martin v. L?wis" <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> writes:
>
> > Problems with freeze, IMO, are that it requires a C-compiler,
> > which most people on windows do not have, also the resulting
> > files are much larger than those created by py2exe or installer,
> > because the byte codes are not compressed.
>
> In the context of distutils, absence of a compiler may not be a
> problem: people building packages with distutils will need a compiler,
> atleast if the package contains extension modules.
>
> As for size of the resulting executable: if compressing the byte code
> really provides a significant saving, I think freeze should make use
> of that mechanism, too.

Do you think that PyImport_FrozenModule() should be extended to handle
compressed byte codes? Or should freeze simply append the compressed
byte codes to the executable (as py2exe and installer do it) instead
of compiling them with the C-compiler?

>
> I see the primary advantage of freeze over the other mechanisms in
> that it provides (or can provide) a truly stand-alone binary. The
> Windows-specific packagers always need to put pythonxy.dll into the
> executable, and any required extension modules; this is ugly. If
> libpython is available as a static library, freeze can produce more
> compact binaries, too, since it can omit unused extension modules.

An interesting idea would be to additionally distribute Python and
extension modules (on windows) not only as dlls, but also as static
libraries. In this case only a linker would be needed, and you avoid
the problems compiling all the sources...

Another possibility would be to use a program creating a standalone
exe-file from exe and dlls. I have once tried such a program, it worked
in simple cases, but not for Python. Then I wrote some code (in python)
myself to do this, it is very tricky, but certainly possible.
All in all, currently I don't care too much about single file executables.

Thomas




From khirmint at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 13:37:29 2002
From: khirmint at hotmail.com (Ken)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:37:29 -0800
Subject: Another socket/thread question
Message-ID: <a6o69c$ntq$1@horsefly.nf.net>

Hey everyone..

I've got a thread that continously listens to a socket, and reports what it
receives. Blocking is turned on, and I would like it to stay that way since
the only thing the thread has to do, is listen to the socket.

My question is when the socket needs to be closed (program shuts down, or
that user is being disconnected by the server) is it possible to interupt a
socket.recv ()?

If not, whats the easiest way to cut processor time from looping endlessly
with blocking turned off?

Thanks in advance.




From threehounds at worldnet.att.net  Sun Mar 17 15:14:46 2002
From: threehounds at worldnet.att.net (Matt Austin)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:14:46 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1016232751.9857.python-list@python.org> <3C931C23.B0B2BF75@kfunigraz.ac.at> <mailman.1016293229.8641.python-list@python.org> <3C946430.8A4408ED@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C94DC23.2040304@worldnet.att.net>

Quartiles are neither superior or inferior to quantiles, it's just 
another term.  When people refer to quartiles they mean the 25th and 
75th quantile.  Another term you will see is quintiles which refer to 
the 20th, 40th, 60th, and 80th quantiles. This can be generalized to 
deciles, etc.

The nice thing about R is that most of the functions are written in the 
language and can be viewed to see how they are calculated by simply 
typing the name of the function which uses the default show method for 
functions.  If the functions are internal, then you can view the source 
code to verify the calculations.

--Matt



Siegfried Gonzi wrote:

> Tim Churches wrote:
> 
> 
>>> delivers:
>>> 
>>>    Min. 1st Qu.  Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
>>>   0.230   1.226   7.300  18.960  31.680  78.900
>>> 
>>> Everything is correct, except the 1st quantile and 3rd quantile.
>> 
>> You mean 1st quartile and 3rd quartile, not quantile. And the values
>> calculated by R are not wrong, just different (see below).
> 
> 
> The book "Statistical Methods in the Atmospheric Sciences", by D.S.
> Wilks, does not really make a difference between "quantiles" and
> "quartiles". According to the book I got the impression that quartiles
> is inferior to quantiles (e.g. page 24: "Example 3.1. Computation of
> Common Quantiles".
> 
> But you are right that I should be more precise in order to avoid
> confusion.
> 
> 
> 
>> There are a number of methods for calculating quantiles. In R, the
>> summary() function calls the quantile() function to calculate the 1st
>> and 3rd quartiles and the median. The quantile() function uses linear
>> interpolation to calculate the sample quantile for the probabilities of
>> 0.25 and 0.75, whereas XLispStat is just taking the arithmetic mean of
>> the 2nd and 3rd, and 6th and 7th values respectively (using zero-based
>> indexing/counting, since this is the Python list).#
> 
> 
> My first guess was also that R just calculates the quantiles in a
> different fashion; but I could not find any hints in the documentation.
> According to the beforementioned book (page 23):
> 
> "Almost as commonly used as the median are the quartiles, q0.25 and
> q0.75. Usually these are called the lower and upper quartiles,
> respectively. They are located halfway between the median, q0.5, and the
> extremes, x(1) and x(n). In typically colorful terminology, Tukey (1977)
> calls q0.25 and q0.75 the 'hinges', imagining that the data set has been
> folded first at the median, and the quartiles."
> 
> I simply thought (and note the word "halfway" in the citation) then
> XLispStat is/was correct.
> 
> 
>> The methods used by R are fully described in the R manual (see
>> help(quantile)), but a commonsense explanation of the R approach is as
>> follows (again using zero-based indexing/counting). 
> 
> 
> Maybe I did look too superficialy after the method of calculation.
> 
> 
> Regards and especially thank you for your insight,
> S. Gonzi


 



From malletc3 at cti.ecp.fr  Sun Mar  3 17:03:00 2002
From: malletc3 at cti.ecp.fr (DarkCed)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:03:00 +0100
Subject: [newbie] Problem with os.system
Message-ID: <a5u6il$fsc$1@smilodon.ecp.fr>

I would like to run a program from a python script (a source for a
icecast server).
The program works, but a simple two-line script with os.system('ices')
does not. I get this message :
"syntax error near unexpected token".

If I type "ices" in the same repertory, it works...
Shall I use another command to run my program ?

Thanx
Ced




From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Mar 14 13:06:11 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:06:11 +0100
Subject: jython for a large-scale web site?
References: <b03e80d.0203140059.5c16cde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C90E693.3080600@stroeder.com>

Sandy Norton wrote:
> 
> I work with a web company that has about 180,000 registered users, and
> pretty good weekly traffic stats. Their current platform of
> development includes Oracle for the data server, AOLServer for web
> serving platform and TCL to script the whole thing together, with
> everything running on Solaris on a few fat multiprocessor Sun
> machines.
> [..]
> Now, I'm really happy to have turned the top tech decision-maker in
> the company on to python

Also check out http://pywx.idyll.org/

Ciao, Michael.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 10:43:34 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:34 -0600
Subject: location of gmpy, google
In-Reply-To: <sca1ee9d.067@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>
References: <sca1ee9d.067@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>
Message-ID: <15521.59558.878355.64531@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    FREDRIK> Where can I get gmpy?

Try searching for "gmpy" on google.

Google should be the first place people look for just about anything on the
net my opinion.  Pardon the digression non-Pythonic discussion, but let me
tell you a story...

A guy the incubator where I have an office had a blown output channel in his
stereo.  An *old* stereo.  He tried swapping speaker wires.  The quiet
speaker changed.  Popped open the case and pulled the suspect amplifier
doodad.  He went to Google, entered the long part number from the doodad
(just the part number, one of those long alphanumeric things), and was led
to some place in Georgia that had some of these in stock.  Finding that
doodad through the usual means would probably not have been anywhere as easy
as that.

Google is your friend...

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 14 20:12:23 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 01:12:23 GMT
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work                    Sincerly, F
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna92f39.150k.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Oscar wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I have added 
> 
> def joinsplit = (join(split(lines, '"'), ' '))
>         return joinsplit

No wonder this doesn't work, as you've apparently haven't made very
much effort to understand what you're doing here.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you can't write software just by guessing
about the syntax. If you want to learn programming in Python, then go
to http://www.python.org/ and head to the newbie page there.

If you don't want to learn programming, perhaps because it's too much
effort, then the only option is to find somebody to do it for you. 

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 28 18:03:34 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 15:03:34 -0800
Subject: Extending/embedding versus separation
References: <mailman.1017314023.26429.python-list@python.org> <a7vokr$qdo$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203281503.291e2af1@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<a7vokr$qdo$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:09 -0000, "skoria" <shomon at softhome.net> wrote:
> 
> >Hi
> >
> >Thanks for your help. No, I didn't write the hash tables. I'm writing
> >a stats program based on webalizer. Webalizer and Analog were the
> >fastest and least memory hungry of all the programs I know of, and
> >webalizer is GPL so I was able to use it as a basis for my work, so I
> >get to make free software at work! The hash tables are already written
> >there. 

I've just downloaded the webalizer source and inspected its hashtab.c
-- 5 or more different hashtables each with its own constructor,
destructor, insert, etc methods [maintenance nightmare] -- hash
function effectively uses only the last 6 to 7 bytes of the key on a
32-bit machine [hashval is multiplied by 31 for each byte in the key]
-- uses chaining for collison resolution but w/o move-to-front
heuristic [IOW it could use less memory or go faster!] -- reaction:
slam lid shut, nail it down, ... aarrgghh, how do we stop the timbot
from seeing this lest it collapse with an ExcessiveSnortCount
exception?

[snip]
> OTTOMH, I would guess that you may need to generate some special
> representations of visitor paths directly from the logs, unless
> the webalizer already does that. But if you have to process the
> raw logs in a new way, it will most likely be easier to get right
> in Python than by cannibalizing existing C.

Especially *that* existing C. Look at its parser.c; do you want to
have to understand that, let alone maintain it?

And saving memory??? You don't need the following in Python:

#define MAXHASH  2048      /* Size of our hash tables          */
#define BUFSIZE  4096      /* Max buffer size for log record   */
#define MAXHOST  128       /* Max hostname buffer size         */
#define MAXURL   1024      /* Max HTTP request/URL field size  */
#define MAXURLH  128       /* Max URL field size in htab       */
#define MAXREF   1024      /* Max referrer field size          */
#define MAXREFH  128       /* Max referrer field size in htab  */
#define MAXAGENT 64        /* Max user agent field size        */
#define MAXCTRY  48        /* Max country name size            */
#define MAXSRCH  256       /* Max size of search string buffer */
#define MAXSRCHH 64        /* Max size of search str in htab   */
#define MAXIDENT 64        /* Max size of ident string (user)  */

Bottom line: do it in Python.


From matkin at iar.se  Fri Mar 15 04:47:34 2002
From: matkin at iar.se (Mats Kindahl)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 10:47:34 +0100
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
References: <mailman.1016065525.9745.python-list@python.org>  <umbsdr8kmj.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se> <4f5k8.435$zT5.13755@news.itd.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <um8z8u88nd.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>

Michael George Lerner <mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> writes:

> I wanted to match this:
> 
> (?P<foo>foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo)
> 
> without typing in all of the different combinations of 'foo' and spaces.
> 
> (Tim kindly pointed out the typos in the above, which I've corrected)
> 
> Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> wrote:
> 
> > Depending on the definition of easy, this is the alternative I would
> > use. 
> 
> > 	r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
> > 	
> > Of course, your milage may wary.
> 
> Doesn't quite work for me:
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
> >>> s = r.match('foo         ').groupdict()['foo']
> >>> s
> 'foo         '
> >>> len(s)
> 12
> >>> 
> 
> and I only want to match things that are seven characters long here.

That's what I get for not reading the manual... :/

Of course it should be

    r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}$) *foo *)')
                                    ^
                                    !
                                    +-- notice missing dollar

-- 
Mats Kindahl, IAR Systems, Sweden

Any opinions expressed are my own, not my company's.


From jim.jacobs at jacobshome.com  Sat Mar  9 16:30:34 2002
From: jim.jacobs at jacobshome.com (Jim Jacobs)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:34 -0500
Subject: Tkinter error
Message-ID: <a6duuu$37a$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

I just installed ver. 2.2.  When I try to run Tkinter script (include IDLE),
the following error occurs:

   "self.tk = _tkinter.crate(screenName, baseName, className)
TclError:  Can't find a usuable init.tcl in the following directories: [list
of directories]"

Among the directories listed is the directory in which init.tcl is located.
What gives?

Thanks,
Jim




From Dave.Haynes at sia-mce.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 16:07:43 2002
From: Dave.Haynes at sia-mce.co.uk (Dave Haynes)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 13:07:43 -0800
Subject: Customisation of comparison operators
Message-ID: <c396ce35.0203221307.3cba94e0@posting.google.com>

Hi,

 Which of __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__, __ge__ are used when
sorting lists of objects with <list>.sort()? Which of them is used for
the 'in' and 'not in' comparisons?

 Is __cmp__ no longer used at all if the above are defined?

 This might be dodgy practice, but I have some objects for which I
want to provide subtly different behaviour for the comparison
operators than for testing 'in' and 'not in'...

 Cheers,


               Dave.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar  4 23:46:01 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:46:01 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <1cef615e.0203021254.6bf3658@posting.google.com> <3C82C91C.A60B3242@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <a5uthe$nsq$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <3C844D89.31AB890F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> 
> Even for symmetric tables, a default direction should be assigned
> (say, row-major).  Then, the normal pythonic approach to nested
> lists or tuples can be used.

But part of the beauty of it is that it allows you
to treat symmetric tables symmetrically, rather than
have to know about and remember the "default direction".
E.g. to iterate in the opposite order from usual:

  for j in indices(myarray, 1):
    for i in indices(myarray, 0):
      do_something_with(myarray[i, j])

This fits in nicely with Numeric arrays, which can
be sliced and diced very flexibly without any
directional bias at all.

> forget the new
> notation, save the repeated calls to len(), and use just one sample len()
> from each dimension
> 
> rowcnt, colcnt = len(arr), len(arr[0])

You mean like:

  row_indices = indices(myarray, 0)
  col_indices = indices(myarray, 1)
  for i in row_indices:
    for j in col_indices:
      ...

> Given a ragged right, what would looping
> over columns do with:
>   10  20  30
>   40  50  60  70 80
>   90  11  12  13

Outside the scope of my proposal. This is not a 
2-dimensional table, it is a 1-dimensional table
of 1-dimensional tables. Calling indices(..., 1)
on it would raise an exception, just as doing
the same to a list would.

> Let's use the optional argument for something different:
>     indices( anIterable, [start, [stop]] )
> Now, you can make friends with people who number their
> arrays starting at one instead of zero ;)

sub_indices = indices(anIterable)[start:stop]

Now you're friends with them without even
having to *know* where their indices start
(or even whether they're contiguous or not!)

> Also, indices() and indexed() should return a generator instead
> of a fully evaluated list.  Why eat-up memory unnecessarily.

Certainly. (Actually, I would make it a lazy sequence
a la xrange, so that my second example above would work
(i.e. it needs to be re-usable)).

> One final note, if indexed() is available, why would indices()
> ever be needed?

* It doesn't generalise well to symmetric multi-dimensional
use.

* Iterating over parallel lists can be written more
symmetrically with it:

  for i in indices(list1):
    do_something_with(list1[i], list2[i])

looks better to me than

  for i, item1 in indexed(list1):
    do_something_with(item, list2[i])

* Also, I just don't like indexed() for some reason. It
seems to be doing too much at once. I wouldn't object
to its existence, but I wouldn't like to have to use
it all the time.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 21 20:49:53 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:49:53 -0600
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
In-Reply-To: <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHIEBODJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com>
References: <u7ko62kn6.fsf@python.net>
        <MEENLMFCHGAOOICLMCHHIEBODJAA.kseehof@neuralintegrator.com>
Message-ID: <15514.36289.256160.98265@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Ken> I keep bumping into that one too.  I can't think of any advantage
    Ken> for the current semantics, so I am submitting a PEP.  I didn't see
    Ken> a bug in sf or an existing PEP, but I might have missed something
    Ken> so please let me know.  Seems like a PEP is more appropriate than a
    Ken> bug report though.

Why?  I'd just submit a bug report.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 21 09:24:37 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:24:37 -0600
Subject: eval of a private attribute
In-Reply-To: <3C998F89.66DB1290@infomaniak.ch>
References: <3C998F89.66DB1290@infomaniak.ch>
Message-ID: <15513.60709.211340.425135@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Cedric> I'd like to create a method which will be able to get any
    Cedric> attribute of the class.

Why use eval?  Why not simply

    p = getattr(self.__class__, var)

?  The first arg restricts you to fetching class variables.  You could also
use 'self' there I suppose.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 15 00:09:05 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:09:05 -0600
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
In-Reply-To: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >>    selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
    >>    (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, selectables)
    ...

    >> It blocks forever waiting for theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
    >> to return.  I expect it to block waiting for select.select(); that
    >> would not be a problem.  The problem is that select is claiming
    >> there's stuff to be read, then when I try to read it, it's not there!
    >> How can that be?

Based upon the attribute names you are using, I suspect you instantiated
os.Popen3 to create theProcess.  These are file objects, not sockets.  I
believe select only blocks on sockets.  See the comments about asynchronous
file i/o near the bottom of asyncore.py.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Mar 11 01:00:02 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 22:00:02 -0800
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203102200.4d966560@posting.google.com>

Erik de Castro Lopo <nospam at mega-nerd.com> wrote in message news:<3C8BE537.74E55963 at mega-nerd.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> Just recently I prototyped a relatively complex algorithm in Python
> before converting it to C. During this conversion I noticed that
> the modulo operator returns different results in C and Python if
> the numerator is negative. For positive values they produce the same 
> result.
[snip]
> Anybody have any idea why this is?

The Python reference manual: "The modulo operator always yields a
result with the same sign as its second operand (or zero)"

K&R2, p. 205 says: [paraphrased] If both operands are non-negative,
then the remainder is non-negative and smaller than the divisor; if
not, it is guaranteed only that abs(remainder) < abs(divisor).

So what you see from C depends on the compiler and architecture. If
you are at all interested in portablity of your C code, you will need
to take precautions.

Why? Philosophy, I suppose: C gives you generally what the hardware
gives you. Python mostly gives you what is useful and consistent, even
if the implementation has to work a bit harder to do that.

There is also a lengthy thread in this newsgroup -- you can easily
find it by googling "modulo remainder negative".

<:-)>
BTW, speaking of "easily find", were you having simultaneous problems
with all of (1) the index in K&R (2) the Python reference manual (3)
Google???
</:-)>


From fdrake at acm.org  Mon Mar  4 23:24:13 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Mon,  4 Mar 2002 23:24:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020305042413.3598528696@beowolf.fdrake.net>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

Minor accumulated updates.



From webmaster at greich.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 00:01:53 2002
From: webmaster at greich.co.uk (David Russell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:01:53 -0000
Subject: Python's Syntax
Message-ID: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>

Hi,

I can't get my head around Python's syntax for the if, for, while etc.
statements.

I'm used to the classic:

if (condition == TRUE)
    {
        Do this
     }
else
    {
        Do this
    }

I've had a look at a couple of tutorials for Python and it appears like
this:

if condition == TRUE:
    do this


How do you tell it when to stop? I just can't figure out how to do it. Could
somebody explain it to me please, even though I have a strange suspicious
that it is one of the simplest deatils imaginable.

Also, another thing about Python's syntax. Are statements just sperated by
their lines, or do they have some form of seperator (like a semi-colon)?


Thanks for any help, it is appreciated.

(Sorry if this appears twice, the first time I sent it I got an error so I'm
not sure if both will show up)







From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 30 17:30:13 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:30:13 -0800
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>              <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>  <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017497267.28467.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA63C75.569891AD@alcyone.com>

David Abrahams wrote:

> Well, I try not to play favorites <0.002 wink>, but the implicit
> conversion rules in C++ are admittedly and unfortunately liberal.
> However, bool is detectably NOT derived from int in C++:
> 
>     void f(int const&);
>     f(false); // error!
>     assert(boost::is_base_and_derived<int,bool>::value); // fails!

Of course it does; in C++, int and bool aren't even classes, much less
that they have some subclass relationship.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From cbbrowne at acm.org  Thu Mar  7 23:54:47 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:54:47 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3g03bacbs.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com>

les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander) wrote:
> i am just curious as to why different programming languages have
> different speed. I understand that if a language has an extensive
> grammar (such as c++) the compiler would take longer. But what about
> execution?  why is a perl program faster than similar python
> program? For example when java came out it use to be pretty slow,
> but now it is pretty fast. How was this speed-up acheived and why is
> it not possible to have such a speed up for python?

The complexity of the language grammar will certainly affect how large
the compiler is; the impact of that on speed of execution of compiled
code should be minimal (except to the degree that it's harder to write
good optimizers for complex languages than for simpler languages).

You'd often be able to expect programs deployed in languages that
compile to machine code like C, C++, Ada, and such, to be faster than
programs deployed using environments that use interpreters and/or
bytecode compilers.

The bit of C code
for (i=0; i < 50000; i++) {
  c = c + 1.0;
}

is likely to execute a whole lot faster (assuming it doesn't get
compiled out of existence into a mere "c = 50000.0;") than the Perl:

for ($i=0; $i < 50000; $i++) {
  $c += 1.0;
}

or the Python:

for i in range(50000):
   c = c + 1.0

The latter two will at best involve interpretation of bytecompiled
code, which is a whopping lot slower than the machine language
generated by the C compiler.

Java is an interesting case; the development of "JIT" compilers takes
bytecompiled code and generates machine code which can be of
comparable speed to C/C++/..., and that represents a relatively recent
improvement to Java environments as they have matured.

Pre-JIT, Java would have pretty similar performance characteristics to
Perl and Python.

In all cases, evaluating performance is rather a "black art."  It is
_not_ safe to say that C will "always be faster," or that Python will
"always be slower;" even if that were always true, raw speed is by no
meands the only evaluation criterion, which anyone that has looked at
benchmark comparisons will know.

The sorts of JIT speedups seen with Java don't happen with Python
because Python doesn't directly define a virtual machine that is
amenable to JIT analysis.  But JIT is fairly abtruse, and part of the
point is that Java _without_ JIT "sucks wind badly," performance-wise.
They _needed_ JIT for Java to NOT suck badly.

The answers for performance tuning of Perl and Python will differ from
that.
-- 
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@canada.com")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/python.html
Your latest program has been judged UNTASTEFUL by the T daemon;
and automatically deleted.


From cgale1 at cox.net  Sun Mar 17 06:47:45 2002
From: cgale1 at cox.net (Van Gale)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:47:45 GMT
Subject: Pythonic Porter stemmers (Was: Re: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl  for performance?)
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a6tsnr$npd$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016233166.10632.python-list@python.org> <a715ns$ga9$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016353229.7268.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Bn%k8.4574$J54.497662@news1.west.cox.net>

W.B. Frakes and R. Baeza-Yates. 1992. "Information Retrieval: Data
Structures and Algorithms," Prentice-Hall, describes the Porter algorithm as
well as a few other stemming algorithms.  The reference for the algorithm
is:

  Porter, M. F. 1980. "An Algorithm for Suffix Stripping." Program, 14(3),
130-37.

Frakes mentions nothing about a patent on the Porter algorithm, and I'd be
surprised if there were since it was pretty rare back in the "good old
days".

I worked on a huge indexing project for a legal publisher, and we developed
our own stemming algorithm.  It was much simpler than Porter, basically
being the most obvious conflations (like remove "s" and "ies") which covered
the vast majority of English words, and then a list of "exceptions".  Of
course we had the advantage of 50+ editorial staff capable of proofreading
the index finding new exceptions, but I still think that's a better way to
go than trying to stem completely by algorithm.  As hard as the Porter
algorithm tries it still make a *lot* of mistakes.

--
Van Gale





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 17:24:57 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 23:24:57 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl>
Message-ID: <m3adsp8zie.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl> writes:

> Python is sufficiently high level not to care about the bits.
> Python never had a C float type, only a C double type, for precisily
> this reason.

Python does, however, have a long int type, side-by-side with the int
type - because it cares about bits. Atleast it used to, there is a PEP
for merging the two integer types. There is also a PEP merging all
numeric types into a single one, or a hierarchy of types.

Notice that the relationship of bool and int has two aspects: one is
whether you can combine them in numeric operations,
e.g. 28+isleap(year). There is absolutely no way to remove this
property from the language - too much code would break if that would
raise an exception.

The other question is whether bool should inherit from int. Notice
that this is unrelated: you could have the arithmetic operations even
without inheritance. The inheritance from int is mostly an
implementation convenience: too much code in the interpreter itself
would need to change to make bool inherit from object only.

> Somehow this reminds me of subclassing Square from Rectangle:
> it just doesn't feel right, even though it might work.

I can't see the relationship: A Sqare is-a Rectangle, so following
classic OO principles, the inheritance is clearly right. Depending on
how you define the Rectangle interface, this inheritance relationship
would even satisfy LSP.

> With a non int bool, True and False would be real singletons:
> 
> bool(1) is True
> bool(0) is False

They are singletons even under the PEP: You have to work really hard
to make two instances of True (bool(1) is (not bool(0)) is bool(1) is
True); and if it was a type not inheriting from int, you could *still*
make extra instances if you wanted to hard enough.

> True is not 1

This is True in the PEP.

> True != 1

This is False, and it should be, since making it True would break
backwards compatibility.

> Subclassing bool from int would also force 1 and 0 to be become
> real singletons. 

Can you elaborate? This is not at all the case.

> The only reason this would work is that current python
> implementations happen to implement 1 and 0 in this way.

Not at all:

>>> (1>0) is 1
0

> But you could make the language definition simpler by explicitly
> defining the cast to bool in contexts where a boolean is expected,
> see above. This would allow the current casts (eg. list to bool as
> non empty) to be described at the standard types instead of in the
> language definition.

It is already that way, the method determining truth is __nonzero__;
for historic reasons, a number of fallbacks are taken if __nonzero__
isn't implemented.

Regards,
Martin



From bernie at 3captus.com  Sun Mar  3 15:33:09 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:33:09 GMT
Subject: Trouble running programs
References: <mailman.1015181645.9476.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C828906.A6401D51@3captus.com>

default_renegade wrote:

> Just started learning Python, but having trouble running a programs.
> First, I open IDLE, then open a new window
> Then I write a program and save it, then I close the window
>

After save the program from script window, don't close the window.  Just
press Ctrl+F5 or select from menu Edit->Run script (of script window) to
run the script from within IDLE.

> When I'm back at the Python Shell and select Run Script It gives me
> an error "Not Saved - The bugger for Python Shell is not saved.
> Please save it first!"

Run script command should not be part of Shell window (if it does, a
file selection dialog box should popup for use to select a script to
run).  Anyway, IDLE is not a commercial product so as a user, as long as
I find a way to make it work, I have no complains.

>
> However, I can run the program from the DOS prompt.

Bernie

--
There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.

So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
praise of intelligence.
                -- Bertrand Russell



From pachy at 012.net.il  Sun Mar 10 06:42:45 2002
From: pachy at 012.net.il (Tal Linzen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:42:45 +0200
Subject: Bidirectional widgets in Tk
Message-ID: <001601c1c828$f8daf230$3f12c7d4@ussr6gwe8yu2pu>

Hi.

I'm trying to write a GUI that includes bidirectional text entries
(to support both Hebrew and English). From a few searches I
gathered that QT and GTK both support this kind of widgets,
but I couldn't find any reference to Tk.

Help?

Tal




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 09:40:59 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:40:59 +0000
Subject: 2.2 open
Message-ID: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I am just testing Python 2.2 and one of the oddities I have found is in
some code that used to test __import__.


if type(__import__) == type(open):
  .....

but now I see

>>> __import__
<built-in function __import__>
>>> type(__import__)
<type 'builtin_function_or_method'>
>>> open
<type 'file'>
>>> type(open)
<type 'type'>


So open is now a file? That seems a bit odd to me.

Certainly it's causing my version 4 McMillan installer code to flop
over.

It seems that some built ins now have the type of the object they
create. Pretty weird logic.  
-- 
Robin Becker


From walter at livinglogic.de  Tue Mar 12 14:19:32 2002
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:19:32 +0100
Subject: New-Style-Classes: some questions
References: <a6l5ae$evp$1@crusher.de.colt.net>
Message-ID: <3C8E54C4.7030506@livinglogic.de>

Tino Lange wrote:

> Hi!
 >
> [...] 
> 
> 1) According to the current documentation
>  
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/sequence-methods.html
> 
> the special methods __getslice__ and __setslice__ are deprecated and should 
> not be implemented anymore (since 2.0) . But they exist automatically in 
> the subclassed list and are used for insertion like 
> 
> newlist[3:4] = 5
> 
> - so it seems I have to code/overload these deprecated methods. What's true 
> now? Deprecated or not?

See Python Bug #473985
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=473985&group_id=5470&atid=105470
for an explanation.

> [MaxSizedList via XML-RPC]

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 16:08:49 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:08:49 +0000
Subject: sorting nested dictionary
References: <dcuj8.9914$k5.3664995@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <3C8F1B79.8000607@mxm.dk> <cYOj8.10160$k5.3799615@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBFE1.6090500@mxm.dk>

dsavitsk wrote:

> thanks.  the following solution was also sent, seems to work, but i don't
> know why ...

> def compare(a, b):
>     return cmp(a[1]['weighted'], b[1]['weighted'])
> 
> pairs = h['ids'].items()
> pairs.sort(compare)

the "cmp()" function is the key here:

cmp(x, y)
Compare the two objects x and y and return an integer according to the 
outcome. The return value is negative if x < y, zero if x == y and 
strictly positive if x > y.

----------------------------

And yes that is the 'correct' way of doing it, but the tuple way is 
faster. get it from the horses mouth below.

regards Max M

----------------------------

Sorting
 From Guido van Rossum

Sorting lists of basic Python objects is generally pretty efficient. The 
sort method for lists takes an optional comparison function as an 
argument that can be used to change the sorting behavior. This is quite 
convenient, though it can really slow down your sorts.

An alternative way to speed up sorts is to construct a list of tuples 
whose first element is a sort key that will sort properly using the 
default comparison, and whose second element is the original list element.

Suppose, for example, you have a list of tuples that you want to sort by 
the n-th field of each tuple. The following function will do that.

def sortby(list, n):
     nlist = map(lambda x, n=n: (x[n], x), list)
     nlist.sort()
     return map(lambda (key, x): x, nlist)

Here's an example use:
 >>> list = [(1, 2, 'def'), (2, -4, 'ghi'), (3, 6, 'abc')]
 >>> list.sort()
 >>> list
[(1, 2, 'def'), (2, -4, 'ghi'), (3, 6, 'abc')]
 >>> sortby(list, 2)
[(3, 6, 'abc'), (1, 2, 'def'), (2, -4, 'ghi')]
 >>> sortby(list, 1)
[(2, -4, 'ghi'), (1, 2, 'def'), (3, 6, 'abc')]



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 24 02:14:59 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:14:59 GMT
Subject: [rp] [newbie] embedding python
Message-ID: <T1fn8.5030$EE4.17777@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi, so urgent!

i have a python script "file.py" which has a function in it which i need to
call from my c code. how can i do this! all my projects have been postponded
becuase i cant do this! please helP! i would be so grateful!!

ultimately im trying to embed some python into my c source in UNIX.
i have absoutely no idea how to do this despite the tutorial on the web at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/building-on-unix.html#building-on-unix

it's too general and not step by step enough for a noob like me :(


Please help. asap!!!
Cheeeers








From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 27 15:14:30 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:14:30 -0500
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <just-A83F08.18481924032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <qxS77UAi$ln8EwGL@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3C9E9C74.781B3911@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <83663h3h09.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> > So the question now is, how do I tell if __import__ is the built in one
> > even if the import system is not fully initialized.
> 
> You could compare its type with what you really
> should have been comparing it with in the
> first place:
> 
>   import types
>   if type(__import__) == types.BuiltinFunctionType:
>     ...

That'll still break in Python 4.6 when __import__ becomes an alias for
types.ModuleType, and again in Python 4.7 when __import__ becomes a
Python wrapper around some builtin functionality.

If you want to know if __import__ is the builtin __import__ because
you change it somewhere, you should put a flag somewhere that says
whether or not __import__ is overriden.
E.g. getattr(__import__('sys'), "myimportisinstalled").

Generically, if you want to know whether someone *else* has overridden
__import__, you are doing something immoral and should stop
immediately.  But I well know that people have to do immoral things in
Python sometimes...



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 31 16:30:31 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:30:31 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a8706n$a3i$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <3CA75DAC.17647CEA@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <uaevld4cpcg1a7@news.supernews.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3CA75DAC.17647CEA at alcyone.com...
> Ralph Corderoy wrote:
>
> > Terry Reedy wrote:
> >
> > > C. Anyone learning Python has some idea of truth and truth values.
> > > But I am sure there are some with no idea of what 'bool' means and
> > > only a vague idea about 'Boolean'.  Better formalizing Python
truth
> > > values should make them even easier to learn; why not call them
what
> > > they are?
> >
> > That's an excellent point, as are the others you make.  My Mum would
> > understand true but not bool or Boolean.
>
> I'm not really sure how beneficial this would be.  In the real world,
> not everything about a programming language -- even a low-overhead
> language like Python -- can be instantly intuited by non-programmers.
> After some elementary level they're going to have to start reading.
> That bool (or boolean) is a Boolean type is not a hard concept to get
> across, and I don't see how calling it "truth" is really all that much
> more helpful.
>
> It's far better, in my opinion, to give it a standard name from
computer
> science (bool or boolean) and let new programmers take the tiny little
> steps (in this case) to add a new word to their vocabulary -- a word
> that will help them in future explorations of programming and computer
> science, no less.

The trouble is that 'bool' as a data type **isn't** the standard
name from mathematics. Correct usage is something like:
"Boolean logic manipulates truth values." That is, the data
type is a truth value (see, for example, "truth table".) The usage
in programming languages is simply incorrect linguistically.

Python has always had Boolean logic - and, or not and
so forth. What's being added is the truth data type.

> Excessive attempts to make terms more approachable can lead to
disaster
> in the degenerate case, resulting in just a new form of terminology
that
> now nobody understands.

But nobody has suggested calling it the Aristotelian data type.

John Roth




From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Mar  1 12:36:29 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:36:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
In-Reply-To: <a5obj3$18di$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203011228540.4998-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On 1 Mar 2002, Donn Cave wrote:

> Quoth Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu>:
>
> | I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...
> |
> | Here is my wish list. Each of these should implement a significant portion
> | of what the GNU utils do. They should be robust, and give reasonable
> | results, and reasonable exceptions.
> |
> | touch, chmod, chown, chgrp, touch
> | df, du
> | cp, dd, install, mv, rm, shred
>
> Some of them are essentially POSIX 1003.1 functions, hence supported in
> the posix module (which we usually call "os" so it will appear that these
> functions are supported on all platforms, whether they really are or not.)
>
> chmod == chmod()
> chown == chown()
> chgrp == chown()
> rm == unlink()
> mv == rename()
> dd ~= read(), write(), lseek()
> df == fstatvfs()
>

... And some like 'dd' have a zillion options mainly because they are
command line tools and aren't programmable on any finer scale. In python,
it would be easier to just write a little function that does exactly
what you want than it would be to remember all of the various option
switches.

-- Steve Majewski






From cfelling at iae.nl  Sun Mar  3 16:55:30 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 22:55:30 +0100
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <Uj9g8.29720$jC3.771094@news1.east.cox.net> <a5ro01$b3u$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <votg8.33952$jC3.864830@news1.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <a5u64i$dah$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> wrote:

> "Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
> news:a5ro01$b3u$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
>> How strange the world is, I now end up defending a proposal I'm
>> against (or was against, I'm still in dubio)
> Sometimes it is easier to reach the truth by arguing against your
> position.(i.e. devil's advocate)

Yep. E.g. I didn't get why negative numbers where excluded, so I
enhanced the proposal in a way that seemed logical and straightforward
to me.  Then Emile came to dampen my new found joy pointing out that
there were other ligitemate interpretations for negeative integers in
the for construct if you kept an eye on slice notation.

So maybe my enhancement turns out to be a counter argument in
disguise.  The fact that it doesn't work well with negative integers
surely looks like a show stopper to me.  We could ofcourse decide,
like Guido did in the key versus item debat for iter(dict), that
the `count down' meaning is the one to use, but I doubt it would be
a good decision.  But then who cares, I'm no language designer.




> but continued reading states that, "The expression list is evaluated once;
> it should yield a sequence."
> So what is the [0,1,2,3,4] returned by the 5 in, for i in 5: , called? (I
> realized it's generated by iterable object)The indici?

> I'm still trying to understand so bare with me...
> So if we say that, for i in 5:  has the same result as, for i in range(5):
> then what happens, if python adopts this idea, when you try:
>>>>print 5
> do you get 5 or [0,1,2,3,4] ?

`for i in 5' and `range(5)' both yield the same result, but achieve
this via a different route.  `for i in 5' is transformed by the
interpreter to `for i in iter(5)'.  This transformation is triggered
by the `in' keyword, and as there is no `in' keyword in that print
statement, no transformation takes place, and 5 remains 5.


> Why only make integers objects?  Is there support for making all numbers
> objects?  Integers, after all, are a subset of all numbers.

They already are:)

-- 
groetjes, carel


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 25 15:21:38 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 15:21:38 -0500
Subject: avoid gui being blocked
References: <3c9f7f9f.40054515@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <a7o0si$mk8$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3c9f7f9f.40054515 at news.easynews.net>,
Marcus Stojek <stojek at part-gmbh.de> wrote:
>
>let's say I have a Dialog (using wxPython) with a button.
>This button starts a function thats takes some time to
>return. During this time the GUI is not responding to 
>any action of the user. How can I keep the GUI alive?

Take a look at my web page, and read the slides and examples from my
OSCON2001 threading tutorial.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar  2 18:41:53 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 00:41:53 +0100
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <Uj9g8.29720$jC3.771094@news1.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <a5ro01$b3u$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

How strange the world is, I now end up defending a proposal I'm
against (or was against, I'm still in dubio)

Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> wrote:

> "Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
> news:a5pmvd$fic$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
>> Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> > What you are asking everyone to agree with is:
>> >         5 = [0,1,2,3,4]
>>
>> No he isn't:)  He explicitly says he doesn't think of sequences at all.
> If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
>   It's a duck.   How can one iterate over something that is not a
> sequence/collection?

This used to be the case in Python, but the invention of iterators
has changed the landscape.  The for-construct no longer works on
sequences, it works on iterable objects.  So it's not right anymore
to reject such a proposal based on that the thing isn't a sequence.
You now must reject it if you feel the thing can't be iterated over.
This may seem like a word play, but it isn't, it's a vital though
subtle difference.  And it took me, being an old farth, quit some
time to let it sink in.

>> ...
>> > If you were to restate the above as:
>> >        f(5)=[0,1,2,3,4]
>> > Then, I believe, that you wouldn't have any problem convincing a large
>> > majority that it is possible for f() to produce such an output.  That
> being
>>
>> And this is precisly what he's proposing, f is called iter in his
>> case.
> But this is already in the language.  It is called range/xrange.  I haven't
...

Ah, missing smiley.  The pun here was that the for loop calls the iter
function, so the sole 5 there actually is a iter(5) to the interpreter.
And f(5) turns into iter(5) when you replace f by iter:)

Apart from that, your point of lacking convincing arguments for change
is one of the reasons I'm still contemplating my stanze.

> a) readability
> b)robustness
> c)minimizing bugs

Ah my proposed change for down counting sure is a candidate for bug
minimalisation, as one often makes one-off errors in the range call
needed to achieve the same effect:)

>>He comes from the camp that sees everything as an object, so
...
> But I don't accept this.  **Not everything is an object.**  An apple is an

Fair, and as I explained in an other post quit close to my believes.
But it *is* a standard way of looking at the world in OO circles.

>>Like the `for'
>> construct recently got stretched to mean `over all lines' and `over
>> its keys' for text-files and dictionaries.  Admitted in those cases it
>> still was a clear `iterate over', but the what was debatable.
> The reason for this, is that it is natural to view a file/keys as a
> collection.  It is not natural to consider a number as a collection of other
> numbers.

No it's because it's natural to *iterate* over the keys of a dict.
It's also natural to iterate over the values of a key, or over the
key,value pairs, but general concensus changed recently to favor the
key side.  Quit a good thing I must say, for now it becomes so much
easier to do generic programming in Python, now that files, dicts,
sequences and what have you are unified in the way their iterating
ability is used.


>>
>> > said, I would find that the argument favors the use of range/xrange over
> the
>> > concept of iterable integers.
>>
>> I'm still concerned how it releates to `programming for everybody',
>> as that goal is a sure measure to keep Python lean and simple.
> I am not sure whether you are referring to iterable integers or range/xrange
> by the above.

sorry for the confusion, english is not my native language.
I still doubt that `for i in 5' is easily understood to mean what it's
supposed to mean under this PEP.  I don't have that reservation for
range, and i still think I would prefer an extended range that could
deal with iterable objects.

My change in position is only that I now think I *understand* the
proposal, not that I *like* it.  So Jim finally got me to the point
that for me it's a matter of preference:)


-- 
groetjes, carel


From lee.ingram at 432one.com  Sun Mar 10 22:40:15 2002
From: lee.ingram at 432one.com (Lee Ingram)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 19:40:15 -0800
Subject: Rule Engine in Python
Message-ID: <eb612768.0203101940.5565b282@posting.google.com>

I have used Google to scour the web looking for an implementation of a
rules engine using Python. I need a mechanism whereby slightly trained
end users will be able to add / modify business rules and have them
execute. I previously used Blaze Software's Advisor rules engine to do
something similar. Has anyone seen, implemented, or tossed out this
idea previously?

Inquiring minds want to know...

TIA

Lee Ingram


From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Wed Mar 13 09:21:55 2002
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (stalin)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 06:21:55 -0800
Subject: Anonymous attribute/property possible?
References: <a6bdpt$lop$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0203130621.798df8ff@posting.google.com>

Excuse me, but haven't you read the Zen of Python?

http://www.python.org/doc/Humor.html#zen

Refer to #2:  "Explicit is better than implicit."

I can hardly think of any single feature that would be less Pythonic
than the anonymous property.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar 18 01:00:12 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:00:12 +1200
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]> <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list@python.org> <ffqk8.25854$N7.5409309@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C95826C.648AC359@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> You don't have to read it 1 byte at a time. Just call
> f.read(1024) and it will give you however many bytes are
> available, up to the max of 1024.

If you do this, keep in mind that what you get may
not consist of a whole number of lines. After
processing all the complete lines that you've got,
you have to be prepared to put the rest aside
and wait until select() tells you there's more
to read. In other words, you have to do your
own buffering.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 09:05:07 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:05:07 +0000
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <a6trae$f65$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <wOCk8.303$ID.1901@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <a70c2j$t2a$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> 
> It looks pretty good. However, it requires the users to install another
> package just to install the main package.

Mmh, what do you mean? I just said you'd need to install IPython if you want 
to test the code I sent you 'for real'. But what I gave you is basically a 
wrapper for Windows users which calls the -platform independent- setup.py 
first, and then does some windows-specific things. Maybe I'm misunderstanding 
you.

> 
> I'll take a look at it, but isn't there a way to write some kind of
> installation script in something native to windows?

Again, I don't follow you. What do you mean by 'native to windows'? Do you 
mean binary-compiled, do you mean graphical, do you mean not in python???

Cheers,

f.


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar 18 14:52:35 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:52:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org> <ayQj8.73101$hO6.5843911@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <slrna8vr25.rbm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <mailman.1016254707.32380.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9chc3.lm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:58:28 -0500, Clark C . Evans <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:
>| I think items(x) can just piggy-back on the current iterator protocol, and
>| can be made to work on any iteratable objects.
>
>Would "keys()/items()" be compatible with the iterator proposal? 
>It would be extending the iterator to return pairs... this might
>be a bit divergent...

I was not clear on this point, so let me try again.

What I meant was that if you define items(A) to return an iterator, and
write a program using 'for i,x in items(A)', it will work for any sequence
A.  Users who supply A do not need to do anything.  The implementation of
items(A) might reuse some of code implementing the implicit iterators.  But
it could be as simple as wrapping around iter(A).

On the other hand, if you define A.items(), and write a program using 'for
i,x in A.items()', it only works if A.items is defined.  If later on you
want to use it for a different kind of A, you have to make sure it has the
right .items() method.  This pushes the burden to the users of the program.

Of course we can always have both, but each program using 'for i,x in
something' has to decide what that something is.  If it is A.items(), it
puts one more constraint on A.  If we do not check the growth of such
constraints, eventually those collection classes would become like Java
collection classes with many methods that are rarely used but has to be
there just in case they might be needed in some situations.


Huaiyu


From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Wed Mar 20 08:52:35 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:52:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Popular style document?
Message-ID: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Is there a popular style document for Python?  I realize that there isn't a
whole lot of scope for such a thing, but I wondered because of certain
particular issues that came to mind.


1.  I use "me" instead of "self" in method definitions.  I mention this not
to ask what people think -- I have an unpleasant suspicion -- but because
I'll be using "me" below.


2.  How should methods call other methods?  Suppose that show_and_tell()
simply calls show() and then tell().  Let the class be, say, "Demo".  Then
there are two choices:

    def show_and_tell(me):
	me.show()
	me.tell()

    def show_and_tell(me):
	Demo.show(me)
	Demo.tell(me)

These have different semantics for subclasses, but I would hate to choose
based on that.  I simply use the first alternative.  But only the second
alternative was given in "Python Essential Reference" (by David Beazley).
So I wonder.


3.  Personally, I think that code is more readable (at least sometimes)
when global variables are "declared".  But how?  If within a comment, what
form does the comment take?  Unable to answer that question, I found myself
using a "global" statement, which is semantically a no-op and only
acceptable if the reader knows what the heck it is doing there.


These are hardly burning issues.  But if these or similar issues happen to
be addressed somewhere, I'd like to take a look.


Greg



From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Mar  1 03:47:16 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:47:16 +0100
Subject: ASV module, CVS modules
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F4014.7090800@stroeder.com>

John Machin wrote:
> 
> You 2: On Windows, either use forward slashes "c:/test_data.csv" (it
> works!)

AFAIK this does not work on W2K anymore. I might be wrong.

Ciao, Michael.



From bkd at graphnet.com  Wed Mar 20 10:18:47 2002
From: bkd at graphnet.com (Bruce Dykes)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:18:47 -0500
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
References: <mailman.1016624252.6101.python-list@python.org> <3C989D10.5070409@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <0f5d01c1d022$8c0c0cf0$5102020a@graphnet.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 09:30
Subject: Re: classes for fun and newbies


> It would probably be simpler to it with just a function in this case:
>
> id   = (0,5)
> date = (6,11)
>
> def getPart(slice, line):
>      return line(slice[0]:slice[1])
>
> print getPart(id, log[1])
>
> or something like that. But just writing it in one big mess is probably
> not out of the question either.
>
> for line in,lines:
>      id, date = line[0:5], line[6:11]
>
> But then you could do something like (untested).
>
> class Rec:
>
>      def __init__(self, line):
>          self.line = line
>
>      def __getattr__(self, attr):
>          if attr == 'id':
>              return self.line[0:5]
>          if attr == 'date':
>              return self.line[6:11]
>
> class Log:
>
>      def __init__(self, fileName):
>          f = open(fileName,'r')
>          self.lines = f.readlines()
>          f.close()
>
>      def __getitem__(self, index):
>          return Rec(self.lines[index])
>
>      def __len__(self):
>          return len(self.lines)
>
> Then you can use it like:
>
> log = Log('logfile.log')
> print log[1].id
>
> or like:
>
> for item in log:
>      print item.id
>
> regards Max M

Now, none of these seem as obvious-to-write or as readable-at-a-later-date
as setting each record up as a class first. And setting up the class at the
start seems to be almost self documenting (heck, I *generated* the class
definition from the documentation 8-).

Is there any particular reason to prefer using functions over class
definitions, such as performance, or memory use? Or are we just speaking of
stylistic differences?

> Generally there is no need ti write objects before it is needed. Ie.
> when your code violates the DRY (Dont Repeat Yourself) principle.

As I said, it just seems more natural to me to define each record/line as an
object, with each field being an attribute.

aside: I realize that I'm actually building the guts of a database, but for
something this small, it seems far more efficient to simply write the
necessary text processing and search functions than to build a database in
MySQL or PostgreSQL and then build the necessary connections and filters. A
couple of Python scripts *must* be more lightweight than a fullbore
database.

bkd




From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Wed Mar 13 18:10:34 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:10:34 -0800
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com>
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <20020313122953.B15069@ActiveState.com> <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com>
Message-ID: <200203132309.g2DN9rq30923@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

On March 13, 2002 02:36 pm, Richard Jones wrote:
> > With bugzilla you can explicitly add yourself and remove yourself from
> > the Cc lists of bugs. With roundup you get plopped onto a the nosy list
> > of a bug by responding to traffic on the discussion.
> > [snip]
> > Roundup's use of the subject line of emails to carry bug attributes did
> > not, in our experience, scale well.
>
> Have you investigated roundup recently? That is, since it was re-written
> from scratch using the spec from the Software Carpentry project? Or are you
> just making these statements based on several-year-old-knowledge?

Yes I have and its much more than the Roundup Ping wrote. I was impressed by 
the quick play i had with the most recent version of Roundup, I don't know 
about a detailed feature comparison though, hopefully some of the more 
annoying features of the old Roundup have been patched / thrown out.

Roundup has always struck me as a more of an issue tracker rather than a bug 
tracker which Bugzilla is aimed at. Bugzilla has lots of features and 
problems as well, but add email support to Bugzilla and you have a good 
scalable database with more features than Roundup. Unfortunately its in Perl 
:)

I would recommend looking at both them to any one installing a bug tracker, 
but lets face it, the Python isnt likely to change soon ;)
-- 
  Andy McKay



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Thu Mar 21 15:40:25 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:40:25 GMT
Subject: [newbie] embedding python
Message-ID: <Zyrm8.17043$Hz2.68698@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi,

im trying to embed some python into my c source in UNIX.
i have absoutely no idea how to do this despite the tutorial on the web at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/building-on-unix.html#building-on-unix

it's too general and not step by step enough for a noob like me :(

i've found the Makefile director /local/usr/lib/python2.0/config/ .

What must i do next?!?
Please help. asap!!!
Cheeeers





From torstenson at no-spam.oti-hsv.com  Mon Mar  4 14:04:56 2002
From: torstenson at no-spam.oti-hsv.com (Eric Torstenson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:04:56 -0600
Subject: open() error ---- what am I missing?
References: <%6Og8.10755$hK4.4027177@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1015263607.7574.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <avPg8.11102$hK4.4053571@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

OK I figured it out. It was a misleading error message.  For those with
similar troubles I have listed an explanation (and I was being stupid...I
sort of figured as much)

It was a bad path name after all. It is a nested structure, where at one
point I left off one extra "\" (I'm using windows). I had looked at that
path a dozen times, somehow missing that single "\" down toward the
middle....



"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015263607.7574.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 11:31:46AM -0600, Eric Torstenson wrote:
> >         self.fLog=open(filename, mode='w')
> >     IOError: invalid argument: w
>
>    Do you have the os module imported? Especially in the form
> "from os import *" or "from os import open"?
>
> Oleg.
> --
>      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
>





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Mar  2 10:27:57 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:27:57 +0300
Subject: Problems with multipart messages w/email class
In-Reply-To: <1015006362.1673.7.camel@jwilhelm.ofsloans.com>; from jwilhelm@outsourcefinancial.com on Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 11:12:42AM -0700
References: <1015006362.1673.7.camel@jwilhelm.ofsloans.com>
Message-ID: <20020302182757.A8152@phd.pp.ru>

On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 11:12:42AM -0700, Joseph Wilhelm wrote:
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'

   This is well-known bug in the email package, and it was fixed in CVS.
Please use the latest version from mimelib.sf.net.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Mar 18 03:29:23 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 08:29:23 GMT
Subject: Optimising list comparison
References: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>
Message-ID: <a748h3$1fi1$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <kttk8.6969$OP.215047 at stones>, Graham Ashton wrote:

> A friend of mine is using Python in a research project where he needs to
> compare each element of two vectors, such that comparing [a, b, c] and 
> [d, e, f] would involve comparing a with d, b with e and c with f.

> The only possible values in either list are 0, 1 and -1. When comparing
> two values, if either value is set to -1 then both values are deemed to be
> equal. So we've got:

>    0 ==  0 
>    0 == -1
>    1 ==  1
>    1 == -1
>    1 !=  0
	

> What he wants to know is simply whether all the values in the two lists
> are "equal", in which case the comparison returns 1, otherwise it returns
> 0.

	If I'm understanding you correctly then you should bel 
	able to just use:

			map(lambda x,y: not (x+y == 1), a, b)

	Let me go back through your "truth" table and fill it out
	for all possible permutations:
		
	a     b		r   a+b		a+b == 1
    0 ==  0		1	 0			0
    0 == -1		1	-1			0
	0 !=  1  	0?	 1			1
    1 ==  1		1	 2			0
    1 == -1		1	 0			0
    1 !=  0		0	 1			1
   -1 ==  0 	1?	-1			0
   -1 == -1 	1?	-2			0
   -1 ==  1 	1?	 0			0

   ... the ? lines denote the ones that I've added, the r column is
   the (apparentely) desired result --- the only case where you want
   to return false (0) is if a or b are one AND the other is zero.

   I observe that in either of those cases the sum of a+b will be 
   1 (0+1 or 1+0).  More importantly I note that ALL other cases the
   sum of a+b must NOT be 1 (4th column in my table).  Finally I notice
   that this is the inverse of the (apparently) desired results in the
   third column.  Thus the expression lambda x,y: not (a+b == 1) seems
   to work.

   But perhaps I misunderstand. 

   I didn't do *any* benchmarking of this.  It's just the simplest
   bit of code I could see that seems to match the desired table in
   a functionesque way.

> ----cut----

> Cheers,
> Graham.



From thomas at gatsoft.no  Mon Mar 11 03:09:01 2002
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:09:01 GMT
Subject: Regular expressions newbie: something for templates
References: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no> <mailman.1015801819.3967.python-list@python.org> <spTi8.58594$nl1.9869522@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <xCZi8.39$5Kn.175399936@news.telia.no>

> re.sub("\$([^$]+)\$","%(\g<1>)s",s)

Ah, now I remember why I ditched Perl!! ;-)

Anyway, thanks for your help! I now got several options to go with and they
all seem to work just fine.

Thanks!!!

Thomas




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar 19 14:58:23 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 19:58:23 GMT
Subject: inheriting from curses window-objects
References: <mailman.1016563771.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9f62u.2uv.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Marco Herrn wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Hi,
> 
> i would like to create window-objects that are derived from the standard
> curses windows (like window or pad). But I don't see any way to achieve
> this.
> Is this possible?

No. But there's help:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52295

Btw. I had the exact same problem a few weeks ago:

http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=mailman.1014046530.13105.python-list%40python.org

> Or would I have to write a "new curses library" to get real objects
> for window, one can inherit from?

Fortunately, that's not needed. If you want to write a patch to make
curses objects subclassable and submit it at Sourceforge, I'm sure it
will be appreciated. By me, at least :-).

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From theller at python.net  Fri Mar  1 10:33:10 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:33:10 +0100
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com> <gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <a5ntnn$8t3dn$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <TsElcJAaB4f8EwQA@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <PtFyMdAeY5f8EwjI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a5o719$8l90f$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:PtFyMdAeY5f8EwjI at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
> after investigation it seems that module nt is using
>         cmd.exe /c string
>
> to run programs and I can't find any way to quote things in the string.
> A typically rubbish M$-ism.
> --
> Robin Becker

On win2k it seems to be even documented (for the first time?):

C:\sf\python>type "\Program Files\test.py"
import sys
print sys.argv
C:\sf\python>cmd /c ""\Program Files\test.py" "1 2 3" 4 5 "6""
['C:\\Program Files\\test.py', '1 2 3', '4', '5', '6']

and here are the rules:

C:\sf\python>cmd /?
Starts a new instance of the Windows 2000 command interpreter

CMD [/A | /U] [/Q] [/D] [/E:ON | /E:OFF] [/F:ON | /F:OFF] [/V:ON | /V:OFF]
    [[/S] [/C | /K] string]

/C      Carries out the command specified by string and then terminates
/K      Carries out the command specified by string but remains
/S      Modifies the treatment of string after /C or /K (see below)
/Q      Turns echo off
/D      Disable execution of AutoRun commands from registry (see below)
/A      Causes the output of internal commands to a pipe or file to be ANSI
/U      Causes the output of internal commands to a pipe or file to be
        Unicode
/T:fg   Sets the foreground/background colors (see COLOR /? for more info)
/E:ON   Enable command extensions (see below)
/E:OFF  Disable command extensions (see below)
/F:ON   Enable file and directory name completion characters (see below)
/F:OFF  Disable file and directory name completion characters (see below)
/V:ON   Enable delayed environment variable expansion using c as the
        delimiter. For example, /V:ON would allow !var! to expand the
        variable var at execution time.  The var syntax expands variables
        at input time, which is quite a different thing when inside of a FOR
        loop.
/V:OFF  Disable delayed environment expansion.

Note that multiple commands separated by the command separator '&&'
are accepted for string if surrounded by quotes.  Also, for compatibility
reasons, /X is the same as /E:ON, /Y is the same as /E:OFF and /R is the
same as /C.  Any other switches are ignored.

If /C or /K is specified, then the remainder of the command line after
the switch is processed as a command line, where the following logic is
used to process quote (") characters:

    1.  If all of the following conditions are met, then quote characters
        on the command line are preserved:

        - no /S switch
        - exactly two quote characters
        - no special characters between the two quote characters,
          where special is one of: &<>()@^|
        - there are one or more whitespace characters between the
          the two quote characters
        - the string between the two quote characters is the name
          of an executable file.

    2.  Otherwise, old behavior is to see if the first character is
        a quote character and if so, strip the leading character and
        remove the last quote character on the command line, preserving
        any text after the last quote character.





From andy at reportlab.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:18 2002
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:11:18 GMT
Subject: Autodiscovery of proxy settings from a python script
References: <R%5i8.1615$K%4.11598019@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <WN9i8.355$%k6.2701351@news-text.cableinet.net>

Thanks to several people.  I am once again stunned by how
good the Python standard library is.  I spent an afternoon
surfing and assumed I'd have to write code, but urllib does
most of what I want by default :-)

Idiot's guide to proxy discovery and use:

1. if hacking at home, get a working proxy server.  I found this
which compiled fine and "sort of" works - dislikes GIFs
but can receive plain pages:
  http://www.codeguru.com/internet/http_proxy.shtml


2.  Thereafter, set the proxy in IE and you can do this:
>>> urllib.getproxies()
{'ftp': 'ftp://matterhorn:5060', 'http': 'http://matterhorn:5060'}
>>>

3. Thereafter, calls to urllib.urlopen(myURL) seem to go through
the proxy by default.

- Andy




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Mar 12 20:37:12 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:37:12 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <roy-59D1B0.07392212032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <30gs8us5gur4rh593hl1iksf7f64thga95@4ax.com>

>If you ask a smalltalker, he'll tell you python is not OO because...

...it doesn't have a proper message passing architecture.

>if you ask a C++ hacker, he'll tell you python is not OO because ...

...it doesn't properly implement data hiding.

>if you ask a Lisp programer, he'll tell you python is not OO because...

...it doesn't have multimethods.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant, because all of these programmers
have lost the forest for the trees; which is to say, being "object
oriented" isn't nearly as important as what being object oriented
achieves you.

I'll leave what's really important as an exercise for the reader.



From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 12:55:24 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:55:24 GMT
Subject: wxProgressDialog wonky under Win32
Message-ID: <gc6j8.19334$N7.4409910@ruti.visi.com>

Under Win32, the bargraph in a wxProgressDialog hits "full"
about 10-20% of the way to the "max" value.  The attached
program illustrates this.  The "cacnel" button changes to
"close" at the correct point, it's just the bargraph that
doesn't work right.

It works fine under:
   RH7.2, Python 2.1.1, GTK 1.2.10, wxPython 2.3.2
Barphraph shows wonky behavior under:
   Win2K, Python 2.2, wxPython 2.3.2
   
Does anybody know how to get the bargraph to work right under
windows?

------------------------------8<------------------------------
import time
from wxPython.wx import * 

class MyButton(wxButton):
    def __init__(self, parent, ident, *argt, **argd):
        c = None
        if argd.has_key("command"):
            c = argd["command"]
            del argd["command"]
        wxButton.__init__(self, parent, ident, *argt, **argd)
        if c:
            EVT_BUTTON(self,self.GetId(),c)

class MyFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, *argt, **argd):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, *argt, **argd)
        sv = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)
        sv.Add(MyButton(self,-1,"Go",command=self.progress))
        self.SetSizer(sv)
        self.SetAutoLayout(1)
        sv.Fit(self)         
        self.Show(1)
        
    def progress(self,event):
        size = 500000
        dlg = wxProgressDialog("Downloading",
                               "Downloading...",
                               size,
                               self,
                               wxPD_CAN_ABORT | wxPD_APP_MODAL)
        bytes = 0
        while bytes < size:
            time.sleep(0.1)
            bytes += 10000
            print bytes
            if not dlg.Update(bytes):
                break

class MyApp(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = MyFrame(NULL, -1, "Download")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true 
            
MyApp(0).MainLoop()
        
------------------------------8<------------------------------


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  LOOK!!! I'm WALKING
                                  at               in my SLEEP again!!
                               visi.com            


From wall at adinet.com.uy  Fri Mar 22 16:24:02 2002
From: wall at adinet.com.uy (Walter Moreira)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:02 -0300
Subject: PySequence_Check is always true on instances?
Message-ID: <20020322182402.B7591@casa.parque>

Hi. If I define a simple class

   >>> class eggs:
   ...     pass
   >>> a = eggs()

and I call PySequence_Check on the instance 'a', at C level, it returns 1. If
the class is a new style class:

   >>> class eggs(object):
   ...     pass
   >>> b = eggs()

then PySequence_Check on 'b' returns 0. I proved this on Python 2.2 and 2.1
(couldn't download 2.2.1 yet).

Is this a bug? If it is not a bug, which is the standard way to check that an
object is sequence, in C?

Thanks.
Walter



From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Mar  5 18:58:39 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:58:39 -0800
Subject: Newbie Python+XML Question
In-Reply-To: <3C85597D.D0DD25FE@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <005301c1c4a1$abf34470$445d4540@Dell2>

Jeff wrote:
> % python2.1 testg.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "testg.py", line 26, in ?
>     class XmlHandler(saxutils.DefultHandler):
> AttributeError: 'xml.sax.saxutils' module has no attribute
'DefultHandler'
> 
>    It looks like the SAX stuff is not getting imported correctly.
> Does anyone feel like helping a lowly Newbie with this one?

Easy one: you spelled "Default" incorrectly. Change 'DefultHandler' to
'DefaultHandler' everywhere in that script.

Cheers,
Brian




From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Fri Mar 29 22:51:42 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 03:51:42 GMT
Subject: python cgi design patterns?
Message-ID: <iDap8.1563$hi7.3406@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Greetings,

im looking for python cgi design patters. does anyone have any cool urls?
i've found 1 and it's quite nice.

http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/1998/02/kuchling/

Cheers
trungie




From brueckd at tbye.com  Mon Mar 25 11:11:21 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Indentation problem
In-Reply-To: <3C9F2341.1000802@udcast.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203250745160.16603-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Gilles Diribarne wrote:

> I've some problem with identing code. I'm allright with the example.
> But, I think it's important to have an "end" building block like "!:"
>
> What do you think about that?

Rather than changing the language, get a smarter code editor. The current
way works very well for lots of people.

> Why I would like to put this in the code?
> 1/ Because it's almost impossible to paste python code with ident = n
> spaces to another code with indent = m spaces

How much code pasting do you do? It's common to do some, but 99% of it
will probably be your own code, in which case you'll have the same number
of spaces. Pasting in large blocks of other peoples' code is kinda scary
anyway.

> This kind of examples occurs more and more and you can indent the code
> by hand when it's 10 lines of codes, but not 1000 code lines.

This is sounding more and more like a hypothetical corner case and not a
real problem you're encountering every day. I'd stick the 1000 lines in
its own module anyway.

> It prevents the re-use of code pieces.

Copy/paste is one of the lowest and worst forms of code reuse - try
reusing modules instead if you can.

> 2/ Programmers wants independence: some wants to manage building blocks
> with spaces, other with tabs, some wants length = 4 with tabs.

Um, isn't this the problem you're complaining about? ;-) Seriously though,
I'd always be willing to give up an insignificant amount of independence
if it bought me fewer code headaches and more consistency. Just set a
coding standard for your organization and the "problem" evaporates.

> 2/ Emacs and a great number of editors cannot indent region, since the
> building blocks are only in programmer's mind.

??? Are there any Python editors that do _not_ have this? I don't know of
any...

> 3/ A large number of programming language use this. C, PERL, Ruby, ...
> Why not Python?

Because Python isn't broken? Herd mentality and peer pressure are always
poor reasons for doing anything.

> 4/ Solve the problem of space and tabs length. But, we should keep the
> indenting mode which produces beautifull syntax.

Going back to the start of this post, I think the source of your pain has
less to do with block delimiters and more to do with choice of editor
and/or your approach to code reuse. Please don't think I'm trying to be
rude, but if you're encountering this problem a lot then you're doing
something wrong.

-Dave




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Mar 20 08:56:21 2002
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:56:21 +1100
Subject: how to ask different DNS for gethostbyname? 
In-Reply-To: Message from koji@twinsun.com (Koji Nobumoto) 
   of "20 Mar 2002 02:04:16 -0800." <8de6d3da.0203200204.31b083d9@posting.google.com> 
Message-ID: <200203201356.g2KDuLY06032@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>


> Is there any way to use a DNS which is not looked up
> when I just use the socket.gethostbyname(),  without
> changing /etc/resolv.conf or any system configuration?

try pydns.sf.net

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.




From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Mar 20 22:52:17 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 03:52:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <a79jec$jf617$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9im7h.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <a79jec$jf617$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller wrote:
[...]
>Gordon's installer also works on linux (and solaris?).
>Myself I'm only working on windows, so there is no need for me
>to extend py2exe to work on linux systems. If anyone is willing
>to provide patches for linux (or other systems), and is willing
>to maintain them, I will happily add him as developer ;-).

:)

Maybe some time far in the future, but at the moment I think I would
have to expent too much time just to figure out how to do this...

But even in the "windows-only" incarnation, I think it would be a nice
switch to have in distutils to begin with. (It does so many other
wonderful things -- why not this too ;)

>Thomas

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 19:22:02 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:22:02 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF1AC9CE88.F326467B-ON88256B73.0001BA17@i2.com>

[David Eppstein]
> It seems like it should be really easy to modify the parser to
> parse
    "for" expression ":"
> and then check whether the expression is an "in" or a
> comparison...

You might want to think this through a bit more since neither arbitrary
"expression" nor arbitrary "conditional" is supported in the suggestions
posted so far.

Jim




From phlip_cpp at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 06:09:44 2002
From: phlip_cpp at yahoo.com (Phlip)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 11:09:44 GMT
Subject: Where is an unbroke version of PyMagick?
References: <63604d2.0203261631.7731b2e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7s99o$e9l@dispatch.concentric.net>

Phlip wrote:

> Hypo Nt:
> 
> The version here says it's broken, and does not explain why:
> 
> http://bel-epa.com/pyapache/Python/PyMagick/
> 
> When I build it, it complains about serious errors regarding its
> opinion of the API found in ImageMagick-devel-5.3.3-5mdk.i586.rpm.
> 
> Careful consideration of the matter reveals the possibility that the
> library is broken because it's from last year and that ImageMagick is
> recent.
> 
> I don't want to do Magick to my Images thru C or C++.

Could have taken a PIL, have gone with imlib2-ruby-0.1.0.

cheerfully-jumping-ship'ly y'rs

Phlip



From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 14 08:51:25 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:51:25 GMT
Subject: SF vs. Lynx (was Re: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org> <uvgbzqto6.fsf@python.net> <a6q9lj$ce7$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <un0xbqmol.fsf@python.net>

aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <uvgbzqto6.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> >> [Michael Hudson]
> >>>
> >>> But because mail from the sf tracker seems to be hitting the bit
> >>> bucket, noone knows about this.
> >
> >sf support believe this is now fixed, btw.
> 
> OTOH, I still can't submit my stupid bug report AFAICT.  

I don't see it, certainly.

> Is there anyone who uses Lynx to access SF?

I've used w3m in the past.  Don't think I've actually submitted a bug,
but I did modify them.  Not recently.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a
  pencil with a blunt axe.  It is equally vain to try to do
  it with ten blunt axes instead.
      -- E.W.Dijkstra, 18th June 1975. Perl did not exist at the time.


From Moo at houston.rr.com  Mon Mar 25 01:30:30 2002
From: Moo at houston.rr.com (Avi Homes)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:30:30 GMT
Subject: files and reading from them
Message-ID: <auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

I am writing a dictionary to a file, like so
f.write(str(Info))

and what it is writing to the file is the following..
{'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}

and if i write in two things, i get..
{'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}
{'IPrice': '2', 'IName': 'notworking, 'IDesc': 'annoying'}

What i would like to do is pull a readline or somesuch.. and have it take in
the whole thing, and then just let me assign that to a empty name, and turn
it into a new dictionary.. like say
 file.seek(1)
//thats how i'd go to the first place in the file correct?
X=file.readline()

and now i can say print X['IName'] ... and its turned into a dictionary.. i
am most likely going about this *all* wrong.






From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Thu Mar  7 22:29:37 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 19:29:37 -0800
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1015554558.21762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x3czbag9q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Steven D. Arnold" <stevena at neosynapse.net> writes:
> obstacle keeping it from inclusion in the standard library.  In the
> meantime, it's practically like, say, an r or u string, except with
> parentheses:
> 
> >>> from neo.istring import istring as i
> >>> l = [1,2,3]
> >>> i('first value is $l.0')
> 'first value is 1'

It occurs to me, you could get rid of the parentheses by making the
i object an instance of a class that overrides (say) division:

 >>> from neo.istring import istring as i
 >>> l = [1,2,3]
 >>> i/'first value is $l.0'
 'first value is 1'


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 22:03:40 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:03:40 -0500
Subject: NoteTab Lite
References: <a677q4$7nj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C882A0C.DB4B81B8@engcorp.com>

William Kennedy wrote:
> 
> Does anyone use the NoteTab series of editors for their coding, 

Is this anything like the NotePad series of editors?  ;-)

> if so do they have a Python library I can have.

I confess to never having used the program, but I wonder if
your question is very clear.  Does the editor use Python as
a scripting language, and you want a library of routines?
Or are you asking for a set of configuration options for
working with Python code?  Or something else that isn't
clear (to me)?

Hoping this isn't more obvious to others....

-Peter


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar  6 21:11:45 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 02:11:45 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8df64.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-BF7C2D.17575706032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8dj35.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:57:57 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
> I started with a positive number n, 

    Actually, you never defined what n was, positive or negative.  It could
have been either.  I decided to start with a negative.

> and claimed that it was hard to create and understand expressions such as
> range(n-1,-1,-1).  You said that if that was so hard, I should instead
> simply create range(n-1,0) and reverse it.
 
> range(n-1,0) is empty when n is positive.  You should have told me to 
> reverse range(n).  So, clearly, you did not understand the expression 
> range(n-1,-1,-1), contradicting your claim that range is easy to 
> understand.

    No, I decided that one might want to do something funky like:
n=-9
range(n-1)

    That yields an empty set.  

    Now, if you'd like to clearly define what N was beforehand instead of
worrying about presumptions only you hold you might just have something.

> I agree, there are already ways to do it. There are already ways to do 
> everything you might ever want to do in Python, because like most 
> sensible languages it's Turing-complete.  So should we stop trying to 
> improve the language?

    No.  However, building in specific case statements for narrow range
perception problems is not improving the language, it is degrading it.

> that the proposed syntax gives a simple easy-to-understand alternative.

    Easy-to-understand to David Eppstien, not to others.  I do believe you
nailed me with that, didn't you?

> Anyway, according to
><http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=001101beae49$39af7bc0$949e2299 at tim>
> it's not a problem if there's more than one way of doing things, but 
> there should preferably one obvious way.  This proposal would give one 
> obvious way of doing most integer loops.

    Which we can already do.  We also don't want to build in special syntax
for every special case.  See any discussion on while(1):.

> That's not covered by the current proposal.  It's supposed to be an 
> improvement, not a panacea -- now is a good time for another Tim-quote 
> "now is better than never", which is what we'll get if we wait for a 
> perfect solution to all our problems.

    How about coming up with your own arguments instead of quoting others.
Just because someone's got a bug up their butt about their shortcomings and
has a woody for some solution looking for a problem doesn't mean it should be
implemented without thought or consideration.

    Point, after several messages, still stands.  PEP is too restrictive,
doesn't do anything other than complicate the language, has no compelling
reason to be implemented, is nothing more than special syntax to solve one
person's special nitpick.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Mar 21 17:56:17 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 23:56:17 +0100
Subject: Telnet
References: <yAqm8.1723$Tk.98335@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns91D8D7543A398cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <d4tm8.2110$oi.93984@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D8F3A57203Bcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Billy Ng" <evebill8 at hotmail.com> wrote in news:d4tm8.2110$oi.93984
@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
> Thanks!  "\r\n" is the key.  It works after I added into the write
> (). functon
> 
> Okay, now I have 2 more questions.
> 
> 1) How can I save the returned data into a list?  I tried to use 
> the read_all() function, but it just stops there.
> 
> tn.read_until("ending line")
> lines = []
> lines = tn.read_all()

this simply replaces the list you bound to "lines" with a string 
containig all the data.
 
read_all() will block until the other side closes the connection. if 
you can send a "quit","exit" or "logout"command to the other side it 
might hang up, so that this works but that depends on your server.

> 2) I was also trying to do this,
> 
> tn.read_until("beginnig line to grap")
> lines = []
> lines = tn.read_until("ending line")

same note as above

> for line in lines
>      print line
> 
> But it prints one character in each line

yes, as "type(lines)" will point out its now a string and not a list
bound to the name "lines"

i don't see a method to read by lines in telnetlib. but you can do 
(untested):

import cStringIO
memfile = cStringIO.StringIO(tn.read_until("ending line"))

for line in memfile.readlines():
    	print line

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From amuys at shortech.com.au  Tue Mar 26 02:37:37 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 23:37:37 -0800
Subject: The OOM-Killer vs. Python
References: <3c9e2b5f.9993062@news.t-online.de> <Xns91DBED451517cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <a7msbn$110t$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203252337.4e0e1325@posting.google.com>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) wrote in message news:<a7msbn$110t$1 at news.idiom.com>...
>  Personally I think the various libraries, compilers and applications
>  which are blindly allocating far more memory then they actually use are
>  really the heart of the whole overcommit problem.  That might not be 
>  Python (or it might be indirectly due to Python's use of some libraries 
>  on your system, possibly it could be glibc and libm bloating).
>  Unfortunately memory is a shared resource, so it only takes one bad
>  appl. (so to speak) to ruin the whole basket for all of us.

Unfortunately the alternative is a substantial performance hit.

Note that with overcommit enabled, applications that over allocate but
don't use the memory won't trigger the OOM, which is triggered by VM
memory pressure.

The issue with overcommit isn't so much that applications get killed
when the system actually does run out of memory, but that applications
get killed asynchronously accessing successfully malloced memory (ie,
believed a promise the OS made, which it couldn't deliver on) when
they may have been perfectly willing to do a graceful recovery if they
had been given -ENOMEM on malloc.

The problem with not overcommitting is that system calls are
signifigantly slower then function calls, so malloc libraries normally
block allocate memory to save reduce the number of syscalls made. 
Another popular optimisation trick is to use anonymous mmapping of
/dev/zero to provide memory pools for malloc.  These are routinely
over-committed.

OTOH, the clincher is that regardless of any overcommit flag, if you
permit them (and they are very very useful :) private, rw, mmap's can
always leave you with undefined current memory allocation, and
therefore vunerable to overcommitting.

Andrae Muys

P.S. I may be mistaken, but IIRC this was the final resolution of the
overcommit flag thread.  ie. Any suggestion that you can actually
avoid overcommitting provides a false sense of security or tends to
break the very applications that make it an issue, so you're better
off not pretending to offer it or at least making it an obscure config
option for people who understand the consequences of enabling it.


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Tue Mar 12 00:39:26 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:39:26 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Graz Bukanoff <drevenhaug at hotmail.com> graced us by uttering:
> Is Python an object based programming langauge?

According to Smalltalk enthusiasts, definitely not.

According to some Pythonistas, yes.

IMNERHO, Python is object _oriented_, but not object _based_. I don't
fault Python for this; it was a design decision, and probably a good
one.

If the question were "Can Python model my OOP idea?", the answer is an
emphatic yes.

HTH
Tim Hammerquist
-- 
All language designers are arrogant.  Goes with the territory... :-)
    -- Larry Wall in <1991Jul13.010945.19157 at netlabs.com


From marduk at python.net  Tue Mar  5 08:04:53 2002
From: marduk at python.net (marduk)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:04:53 -0600
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3c84c0d4_4@Usenet.com>

You're better off using htmllib (and httplib for that matter).  I haven't
looked at your examples, but I can tell just by looking at your code that
it will fail, for example, when "<title>" and "</title>" are on seperate
lines in the HTML.  Also, I might be mistaken, but it doesn't look like
you are re search is case insensitive.

Either way, try the htmllib.  It takes care of all that stuff for you!

--m

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:43:10 -0600, Simon Willison wrote:

> I've written a simple Python script to scan a bunch of URLs for "live"
> sites and grab the title of those pages. It works by using popen() to
> call lynx and analyse the HTTP response:
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> command = "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"
> f = os.popen(command)
> l = f.readline()  # Read first line of output, the HTTP status line try:
> 	# Look for '200' HTTP status code indicating page exists i =
> 	l.index('200')
> except ValueError:
> 	i = 0
> if i:
> 	print "Web page exists!"
> 	# Now try and get the title of the page for line in f.readlines():
> 		line = string.strip(line)
> 		# look for <title>*</title> using regular expression result =
> 		re.search('\s*<title>([^<]*)</title>\s*', line) if result:
> 			# Found the title
> 			title = result.group(1)
> 			found[user] = title
> 			print "Page Title: " + title
> 			break
> 	if not found.has_key(user):
> 		found[user] = "[unknown]"
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> You can see the output of the script here:
> 
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/cs1sites.html
> 
> As you can see, the code works fine for most pages but fails to grab the
> <title> tag on some of them (resulting in an [unknown] entry in the
> list). I've checked the HTML for these pages  and a <title></title> tag
> exists in a form that should be picked up by my regular expression, but
> for some reason it just doesn't work.
> 
> Any ideas?

 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Mar  9 17:20:50 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:20:50 -0000
Subject: Newbie question
References: <a6dv55$phu$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrna8l2gv.38.missive@whave.frontiernet.net>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:34:26 -0000, Nick <nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> How do you get the ordinal value (ASCII) of a character? For example, to
> make a ROT13 program.
> 
> 

>>> ord('a')
97

>>> 'abcdef'.encode('rot13')
'nopqrs'


[the second one requires 2.2]



From senux at senux.com  Fri Mar 29 03:49:32 2002
From: senux at senux.com (Brian Lee)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:49:32 +0900
Subject: multicast test program
Message-ID: <20020329084932.GA4359@jupiter.senux.com>

Is there any python code which test multicast? I want
to send and receive multicast packet by python code. Any
docs or links about this?

-- 
 ____       
 |o | i   / Brian Lee    <senux at senux.com>
 #######|<  Web - http://www.senux.com/en/
(x-x-x-x) \ GnuPG public key - 0x46C763A3



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar 19 01:44:28 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:44:28 +1100
Subject: Java and Python
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A224@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Ahmed Moustafa [mailto:amoustafa at pobox.com]
> 
> 1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?

Nowhere. The best place to look though is

http://www.python.org/doc/Comparisons.html

which has comparisons with various languages.

> 2. Will Python dominate?

Of course! Actually, no language will ever dominate, and Java and Python are
not mutually exclusive (in fact, there is an implementation of Python which
runs on top of the Java VM and has full access to all java classes, etc ...
http://www.jython.org/.

> 3. Who does support Python?

What type of support are you talking about? If you want commercial support,
I think ActiveState gives it. If you are talking about who maintains and
enhances Python, that's the Python development team in general (but with a
lot of community involvement.

If you are asking these questions to decide if you should learn Python,
don't bother - the answer is an unqualified "yes". Python is very easy to
learn, and will make it much easier to learn other languages. If you are
asking to decide if you should learn either Java or Python, the answer is
"no" - learn both. Then learn a few more languages. But Python is a great
language to start with.

Tim Delaney



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 19 02:23:04 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:23:04 GMT
Subject: modifications of PythonWin?
References: <a76mps$itrmm$1@ID-136433.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3C96E764.6070101@skippinet.com.au>

Alex K. Angelopoulos wrote:
> Per Murphy's law, I will stumble across this 30 seconds after I post.
> 
> I'm looking for information on the PythonWin IDE - specifically, any modifications or customizations that may have been done to it in the past.  I have found the sources to it, of course, as well as the basic documentation on it - which seems to be very well done, but is a bit dense for someone who is "MSVC-impaired" such as myself.  I'm grinding through it right now, but I think I would do a bit better if I could see some "hacks" that have been done to it...
> 
> Is anyone aware of open modifications made to the PythonWin environment for special purposes - hopefully with links or a couple of search terms I can use to find such mods?  I've come up with nothing but the "real" PythonWin using PythonWin as a search term.

I don't know of any.  Modifications and customizations tend to be for 
"in house" or limited distribution projects.  I know of a few, but they 
have no public information.

Pythonwin itself is exactly what you want, though!  Many many features 
have been contributed by users over the years.

Mark.





From gs at styrax.com  Mon Mar 11 11:13:12 2002
From: gs at styrax.com (Garry Steedman)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:13:12 +0000
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Need Help in Plone
Message-ID: <3C8CD798.19910.253BB556@localhost>

michael,

'fraid you'll have to bend your mind round CMF first! plone isnt 
difficult to understand once you know how CMF works...

check out CMFDocumentation.stx in the /doc directory below your CMF
install (its there in CMF-1.2 anyway), then you might want to read:

http://cmf.zope.org/CMF/Members/beehive/ZWACKChap5.html

enjoy ;-)

garry

On 11 Mar 2002, at 6:59, Michael Toldo wrote:

From:           	Michael_Toldo at hotmail.com (Michael Toldo)
Subject:        	Need Help in Plone
Organization:   	http://groups.google.com/
To:             	python-list at python.org
Date sent:      	11 Mar 2002 06:59:17 -0800

> I installed the newest version of Plone. But now I have to adapt it
> to a cms. The different objects and the different templates make me
> crazy. Can anybody tell me, where to get a usefull documentation.
> 
> Mick
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

+-------------------------------------------+
  Garry Steedman      mailto:gs at styrax.com  
  Styrax Associates  http://www.styrax.com/ 

  "The Good Man has no shape."            
+-------------------------------------------+



From brian at lodoss.org  Mon Mar  4 04:51:19 2002
From: brian at lodoss.org (Brian)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 01:51:19 -0800
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <3C82F9F0.2A2DBF16@engcorp.com> <3C82FD24.122E16B3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <8fc4b19e.0203040151.de463c8@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3C82FD24.122E16B3 at engcorp.com>...
> Peter Hansen wrote:
[..snip..]
> > (I'd suggest if you're just trying to save typing five
> > keystrokes that you find more critical things to work on first.)

Actually, I did.  I left the less critical item for someone on the NG
to answer for me.  ;-)

> Oops, sorry.  That sounds a little callous.  I really just meant
> to give a response similar to my "programmers always try to optimize
> when they don't really need to" diatribe.  

I originally meant to ask a question more along the lines of "what is
the most pythonic way of doing this."  Then I decided all that extra
typing in my message was suboptimal.  Was that something that didn't
really need optimization?  <cough>

Thanks for the welcome.  :)


From jriveramerla at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 18:27:32 2002
From: jriveramerla at yahoo.com (Jose Rivera)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 15:27:32 -0800
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122> <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com> <20020324081829.193$iP@news.newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <11e94203.0203261527.89fb2ca@posting.google.com>

>>Is there a better way?
> A better way of what? I missed the original post.

I mean a better way of fetching the info from the Web Page, I like
Python, but if anyone knows of any utiliy that can download that pages
automatically to text files... that would be great. Because it would
be more easy for me to process the info in Python from files saved on
disk, than from WEB PAGES.

Taking in account that this is the first time I am using urllib
library.

Thanks...


From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 11:31:51 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:31:51 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news> <slrna8mj5r.tjv.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3c8b8112.27836128@news>
Message-ID: <slrna8n2kd.1i8.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <3c8b8112.27836128 at news>, brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:

> OK, that makes perfect sense. In my case, I was simply looking
> for a predictable way to return a number with two decimal
> places

That's just not possible.  The "number" you're talking about
doesn't _have_ decimal places.  It's a binary floating point
number. It has "binary places".  In theory you could write a
function that rounds to N binary places, but I don't know how
useful that is going to be.

In order to talk in a meaningful way about decimal places, you
have to use a base-10 representation: BCD floating point or BCD
fixed point.  Strings such as "123.456" are sort-of BCD
floating point, and you can round to N decimal places when
converting from binary floating point to "String/BCD FP":

  f = 123.4567
  s = "%0.2f" % f

>>> f = 123.456
>>> s = "%0.2f" % f
>>> f
123.456
>>> s
'123.46'

"String/BCD FP" as I've termed it can represent numbers just
fine, but since you can't do any mathematical operations on them
it's of limited value.

Since you're using binary floating point, the round() function
is actually converting it's binary floating point input value
to the closest value to X such that if X were converted to BCD
in the future it will have the requested number of decimal
places.  But, X may not be exactly representable. If you're
using round(x,N) your probably just fooling yourself. 

If you _really_ do want a number with N decimal places: 

the topic of base-10 numbers for Python comes up occasionally,
and I believe that there are BCD packages available.  If you
really want to do your calculations in base 10, you might want
to search the newsgroup archives for "BCD".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Please come home with
                                  at               me... I have Tylenol!!
                               visi.com            


From joonas at olen.to  Fri Mar 15 16:11:47 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:11:47 +0200
Subject: Library for wmf/emf to png conversion?
References: <mailman.1016199330.11673.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C926392.E8B3346C@olen.to>

dominikush wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> does anybody know of a python library that enables
> conversion from a
> 
>    (Enhanced) Windows Metafile
> to
>    png

Python Imaging Library supports Wmf atleast partitially.
Maybe this works?

import Image
Image.open("pic.wmf").save("pic.png")


From rpm1deletethis at frontiernet.net  Sat Mar  9 08:23:11 2002
From: rpm1deletethis at frontiernet.net (RPM1)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:23:11 -0500
Subject: Q: How can I lock a file in Windows?
References: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4> <XBli8.5326$OP.143152@stones> <Xns91CCF32151FBEAusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <u8k379c20nqued@corp.supernews.com>

> Thanx! That should work, except I don't seem to have the following
> extension modules ... win32con, win32file, and pywintypes. Any idea where
I
> can get them?
>
>

Go here and get the windows extensions.
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

Active State's python comes with them already.
Python Labs needs the extension module.

Patrick





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 03:35:33 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:35:33 +0000
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2zRcLUAVjXp8EwVv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list at python.org>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at python.org> writes
......
This pretty much seems unwanted to me. Done purely for political
correctness. Whenever new keywords are discussed the Gods are against
them. Now we have to accept new constants true, false + a new type.
Silly like all those programmers who have constants like one and zero or
ten in code.

If we get bools can sets be far behind, and what about quaternions and
abelian groups?

>Review
>
>    Dear reviewers:
>
>    I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>    following three issues:
>
>    1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.
no. If needed implement a library module for those who want to bog down
their code. This will not improve the python interpreter one bit and has
already consumed vast quantities of hot air ie has taken time and effort
away from more important issues.
>
>    2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>       backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>       (repr(True) would always return "True".)
>
if yes to 1,  str(true) == "1", str(false) == "0"
>    3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>       (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
>       and C99).
>
>    Most other details of the proposal are pretty much forced by the
>    backwards compatibility requirement; e.g. True == 1 and
>    True+1 == 2 must hold, else reams of existing code would break.
>
true, false
>    Minor additional issues:
>
>    4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>       in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>       would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
>       I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
>       me.
>
no true==1, false==0 is what's required.
>    5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>       believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>       as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
>       predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>       returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
>       to return a bool.
int
-- 
Robin Becker


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Mar 18 18:06:32 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:06:32 +0100
Subject: Syntax color hightlight
References: <3C966603.5010605@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a75rfi$ppu$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Perhaps you should consider using scintilla for this. I'm (pretty
successfully) working on a DTML editor with it.
There's a scintilla wrapper class in wxPython (www.wxpython.org).
You can have a look at this too...
http://archaeopteryx.com/opensource/pyscintilla

"Fabien Henon" <ffjhenon at club-internet.fr> a ?crit dans le message news:
3C966603.5010605 at club-internet.fr...
> I am writing a text editor for POV-RAY (with Python-Tkinter) and
> I'd like to know if it is possible to implement syntax color
> highlighting for a specific language.
> I'd like to implement <>,(),[] matches as well.
> Is Tkinter powerful enough or do I have to use megawidget, wxpython.
>
> Thanks
>




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Mar  1 19:54:39 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 18:54:39 -0600
Subject: What readers want (was: Deitel and Deitel Book...)
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com> <u7vhn9gdkm7917@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <91F926228151D5F5.946DE1D959605688.72F5DF01B36707F9@lp.airnews.net>

In article <u7vhn9gdkm7917 at corp.supernews.com>,
DeepBleu <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> I would love to see books on Algorithms with Python (makes a perfect
>> fit), and more advanced topics such as threads and extending python.
>
>I'd love to see something like that specially on threads and extending
>Python.  This is something I can use.
>DeepBleu
>
>

How would you feel if such material appeared in magazines rather than books?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar  5 19:50:10 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:50:10 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical
 computation?
In-Reply-To: <slrna8a5v6.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCELAOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Huaiyu Zhu]
> ...
> 1. The -lieee is indeed the most direct cure.

On the specific platform tried.  The libm errno rules changed between C89
and C99, and I'm afraid there's no errno behavior Python can rely on
anymore.  So I expect more changes will be needed in Python, regardless of
how things turn out on this specific platform.

> ...
> 2. Is there a configure option to guarantee -lieee?

If anyone can answer this question, please don't answer it here:  it will
just get lost.  Attach it to Huaiyu's bug report instead:

 <http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=525705&group_id=5470&atid=105470>

Thanks.

> ...
> 3. errno 34 (or -lieee) may not be the sole reason.
>
>    On a RedHat 6.1 upgraded to 7.1 (both gcc and glibc), errno 34
>    is indeed raised in a C program linked without -lieee, and Python is
>    indeed compiled without -lieee, but Python does not raise
>    OverflowError.

I expect you're missing something.  Skip posted the Python code before, and
if errno gets set, Python *does* raise OverflowError:

	errno = 0;  /* Skip forgot to post this line, and it's important */
	...
	ix = pow(iv, iw);
	...
	if (errno != 0) {
		/* XXX could it be another type of error? */
		PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_OverflowError);
		return NULL;

If you can read C, believe your eyes <wink>.

What you may be missing is what an utter mess C is here.  How libm behaves
may depend on compiler options, linker options, global system flags, and
even options set for other libraries you link with.

> ...
> 4. Is there an easier way to debug such problems?

The cause was obvious to the first person (Skip) who stepped into Python to
see what the code did on a platform where it failed.  It's not going to be
obvious to someone who doesn't.

> 5. How is 1e200**2 handled?

It goes through exactly the same code.

>    Since both 1e-200**2 and 1e200**2 produce the same errno all the time,
>    but Python still raises OverflowError for 1e200**2 when linked with
>    -lieee, there must be a separate mechanism at work.

You're speculating from a false base:  if platform pow(x, y) sets errno to
any non-zero value, Python x**y raises OverflowError.  What differs is when
platform pow(x, y) does not set errno.  In that case, Python synthesizes
errno=ERANGE if the pow() result equals +- platform HUGE_VAL.

>  What is that and how can I override it?

Sorry, you can't override it.

>    I know this is by design, but I think the design is dumb (to put it
>    politely). I won't get into an argument here.  I'll write
>    up my rationale against this when I have some time.

I'm afraid a rationale won't do any good.  I'm in favor of supplying full
754 compatibility myself, but:

A) Getting from here to there requires volunteers to design, implement,
   document, and test the code.  Given the atrocious state of C's 754
   story, and the subtlety of 754's requirements, this needs volunteers
   who are both 754 experts and platform C experts.  That combination is
   rare.

B) Python's floating-point users will never agree it's a good thing, so
   such a change requires careful backward compatibility work too.  This
   isn't likely to get done by someone who characterizes the other side
   as "dumb (to put it politely)" <0.9 wink>.

Note that the only significant floating-point code ever contributed to the
Python core was the fpectl module, and its purpose is to *break* 754
"non-stop" exception semantics in the places Python happens to let them
sneak through.

> I do remember there being several discussions in the past, but I don't
> remember any convincing argument for the current decision.  Any URL
> would be greatly appreciated, beside the one pointed by Tim.

Which "current decision" do you have in mind?  There is no design doc for
Python's numerics, if that's what you're looking for.  As the text at the
URL I gave you said, much of Python's fp behavior is accidental, inherited
from platform C quirks.




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar 11 19:08:22 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:08:22 +1300
Subject: Syntax to catch specific exceptions ?
References: <3C8BD227.7D1D5539@vip.fi> <6vQi8.24234$n4.4716288@newsc.telia.net> <3C8C6315.9020805@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <3C8D46F6.4637A6B8@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

pekka niiranen wrote:
> 
> So I will end up writing function with a huge "if-else"-structure
> under except -clause
> that catches all cases I want react to? Sounds like C. Perkele ;)

You could keep a tuple of all the error numbers
you're interested in somewhere and use 'in' to
test membership of it.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From mike at csc.liv.ac.uk  Wed Mar 13 15:00:54 2002
From: mike at csc.liv.ac.uk (M.Beis)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:00:54 -0000
Subject: telnet
Message-ID: <a6obko$743$1@kinder.server.csc.liv.ac.uk>

Hello everybody,

I'm connected to a network with a number of telnet servers. I want to get a
list with the names (hostnames) of each availiable server.

Any ideas??

Thanks

Mike




From olc at openlearningcommunity.org  Sat Mar 23 13:02:16 2002
From: olc at openlearningcommunity.org (Michael Hall)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:32:16 +0930 (CST)
Subject: MySQLdb
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203240325160.1859-100000@localhost.localdomain>

G'day All:

I've been writing PHP/MySQL for a couple of years now and am now
cross-skilling into Perl and Python. I'm interested in web database
integration for Python CGI scripts.

Is this the right list for general questions about using the MySQLdb
module?

If so:

I have installed the MySQLdb module but find the docs pretty sparse. Can
anyone suggest a good tutorial that demonstrates the basic moves in
extracting and printing data using MySQLdb? I guess I'm looking for a 
`translations' of PHP routines like:

$query = mysql_query("$sql");
while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($query))
{
	$data0 = $row[0];
	$data1 = $row[1];
}

Also, a newbie-friendly discussion of MySQL modules (history/variety)
and things like MySQLdb versus _mysql would be helpful.

If not:

Where do I go?

Thanks
Mick 

-----------------------------
Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
-----------------------------





From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar  4 19:30:09 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:30:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <87sn7g2stu.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <slrna884ch.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On 05 Mar 2002 01:36:29 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>  Consider: does it make sense to concatenate a
>string of Java byte codes with a string of English text?

To produce a kind of tar file, perhaps?  To send something through socket?
There are certainly many cases where one wants to manipulate a byte sequence
without any interpretation of it as a character string.  

If the discussion is only concerned with source code encoding, that's fine.
But if it in the end restricts the kind of operations that can be performed
on raw strings, it's simply untenable. 


Huaiyu


From neal at metaslash.com  Tue Mar 26 18:31:48 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:31:48 -0500
Subject: seek in a file
References: <a7qujn$n78gl$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3CA104E4.266A68F2@metaslash.com>

Andreas Penzel wrote:
> 
> Hello NG!
> 
> How to jump to a specified line in a file which is read-opened?
> With seek() I can jump to an exact position of  the complete file in
> "byte-steps".
> Is seek able to jump to a line-number?
> If not, what else can I do?

seek() only works in bytes.  This should work:

>>> f = open('/etc/termcap')
>>> lines = f.readlines()
>>> print lines[0]
######## TERMINAL TYPE DESCRIPTIONS SOURCE FILE

>>> print lines[1] 
#

etc.  lines is a list of strings (which include the newlines).

Neal


From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 02:12:16 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:12:16 GMT
Subject: wxPython: generating event IDs?
References: <slrna8lup9.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8B0273.A3651580@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8m1r6.2bl.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <3C8B0273.A3651580 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>> There must be a way to eliminate the need to predefine unique
>> ID numbers.  I hate trying to maintain lists of numbers like
>> that (well, more accurately, I'm just bad at it).

> This little method which I've used inside a wxFrame subclass
> demonstrates a slightly simpler approach than "define a unique
> ID number".  Note the use of wxNewId() to make that part
> trivial.  If you attach your commands to buttons using a 
> method you can wrap the little bit of ugliness and never have
> to see it again:

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.  Here's what I came up with for
buttons:

class MyButton(wxButton):
    def __init__(self, parent, ident, *argt, **argd):
        c = None
        if argd.has_key("command"):
            c = argd["command"]
            del argd["command"]
        wxButton.__init__(self, parent, ident, *argt, **argd)
        if c:
            EVT_BUTTON(self,self.GetId(),c)

The usage of MyButton() is identical to wxButton() except you
can add a command=self.foobar:

    MyButton(self,-1,"Button Text",command=self.buttonCommand)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm dressing up in
                                  at               an ill-fitting IVY-LEAGUE
                               visi.com            SUIT!! Too late...


From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar  6 12:08:01 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:08:01 +0000
Subject: Status of PEP's?
In-Reply-To: <20020306135242.GB10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
References: <3C861BEB.60701@destiny.com> <20020306135242.GB10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
Message-ID: <20020306170801.GE10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 01:52:42PM +0000, Andy Gimblett wrote:

> This just came to me:
> 
> for index in indices(items):
>     pass
> 
> or maybe better yet:
> 
> for index in items.indices():
>     pass
> 
> ?

I've just seen PEP 212 which contains this very proposal...  Should
have known someone would have thought of this before!  :-)

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 01:35:37 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:35:37 -0500
Subject: instrumenting Python code
References: <1010a26.0203262213.4a0d4b11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA16839.1A21E36A@engcorp.com>

Amir Michail wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if there is an easy way to instrument Python code
> so that I can collect information about a particular execution. In
> particular, I am interested in collecting the following info:
> 
> * functions called in execution
> 
> * which function called what other function (the call graph)
> 
> * the values of local/global variables
> 
> It seems I can get all this from the debugger module though it doesn't
> appear to have been designed to be used from another program.  The profiler
> module only gives the first item above.

Among other things, you might want to check out the use of sys.settrace()
(see the sys module) and the standard module 'profile' or the 
trace module included as python/Tools/Scripts/trace.py.

-Peter


From h.e.w.frater at cs.cf.ac.uk  Tue Mar  5 06:35:58 2002
From: h.e.w.frater at cs.cf.ac.uk (Hugh)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 03:35:58 -0800
Subject: Problems importing anything using _socket
Message-ID: <e2e9e807.0203050335.65ca52f4@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
 I'm totally new to python, but have decided to use it to do a first
year uni project. I've got to develop a web based library. I'm using
oracle with the DCOracle2 module, and that works fine. But I can't
import anything that uses _socket. If I try and do an "import cgi"
frok inside the interpreter, I get this message:
>>> import cgi
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/cgi.py", line 39, in ?
    import urllib
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib.py", line 26, in ?
    import socket
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: No module named _socket
>>> import cgi
>>> 

However, As you can see from above If I then type and run the line
"import cgi" again, it forks fine. Any ideas?
Thanks
Hugh
(Cardiff, UK)


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  2 00:32:32 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:32:32 -0500
Subject: Want to monitor process..
References: <87550ef1.0202272315.15779bbd@posting.google.com> <f2lf8.385$Az6.1854@news.hananet.net> <97ae44ee.0202280901.3153bdfc@posting.google.com> <3C7EC9C6.D11FB17@engcorp.com> <97ae44ee.0203010102.14ebf2bb@posting.google.com> <3C7F66AB.D51BEA03@engcorp.com> <97ae44ee.0203011909.620b829b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8063F0.8BBD4A5C@engcorp.com>

Stephen wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> > I'm not sure what the interactive thing would add, since the
> > interpreter will already print exception tracebacks to the console
> > whenever your program exits exceptionally.  If you aren't seeing
> > a traceback, maybe you aren't really exiting with an exception.
> 
> Sorry, I should have explained that the reason I don't see the output
> is that I run the programs in the background since I log into the
> servers from remote and don't want the programs exiting when I log
> out.

Ah, I understand now.  Could you just redirect stdout to a file for
those?  Then when they've crashed, you'll be able to pop in and check
the log.

-Peter


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Tue Mar 12 17:47:23 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:47:23 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <roy-59D1B0.07392212032002@news1.panix.com> <slrna8sfpd.7vj.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <a6lnli$mfg$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8t15v.9sj.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> graced us by uttering:
> In article <slrna8sfpd.7vj.tim at vegeta.ath.cx>,
> > What does he think of Ruby?
> 
> He thinks it's pretty cool.  To the best of my knowledge, he's never
> written a single line of code in either Ruby or Python, but he's sure
> Ruby is a much better language.  Funny how that works :-)

Tell him to try them!  He may very well come to the same conclusion, but
at least he'll have experience to back it up!

I don't think that any language is "better" than another (with the
obvious exception of VB), and there are certain projects that Python
excels at, and others that Ruby excels at.

The real determining factor, though, is the programmer's preference. I
only hope it's a preference based on experience and not solely on
opinions.

Cheers,
Tim Hammerquist
-- 
It's illegal in Wilbur, Washington, to ride an ugly horse.


From p.magwene at snet.net  Fri Mar 22 21:15:29 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:15:29 GMT
Subject: The IDE is important too [was Develop-test-debug cycle]
References: <crnn9u4gf5ferfvhrp4o5ddjcob2ila7s6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.22.21.15.28.962107.56216@snet.net>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:54:59 -0500, Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:


> If you could fix all these four requirements, I reckon you could more
> than quadruple my productivity on large projects.
> 
> 
> 
i.e. What can YOU do for ME today?!  Sure, there's lots of gee-whizness
we'd all love to see in Python IDEs, but since I ain't payin' for it I try
not to moan too much about it.

Since it's open source why don't YOU implement the cool ideas you've
suggested, submit 'em back to the community, and WE can all be four times
more productive?

Ciao,
Paul


From gleki at gol.ge  Mon Mar  4 16:59:21 2002
From: gleki at gol.ge (Giorgi Lekishvili)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:59:21 -0800
Subject: more functional programming
Message-ID: <3C83EE39.B3665205@gol.ge>

Hi all!

Please, accept my appologies for this naive question.

I have taken a careful look on the operator module docs. The module
enables one to make procedures as lists. That's too good.

However, is there already something like scheme's "define" abstractor?
This'd be used as the first element of such list, yielding the result of
the procedure...

Is this, or anything similar, already present in Python? If not, does
someone of the Python gurus plan to do so?

Thank you very much for your time.

Greetings,
Giorgi

PS. Is a genetic programming library written in/for Python available?



From thomas at gatsoft.no  Thu Mar 14 02:46:12 2002
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:46:12 GMT
Subject: Telnet-like interface with authentication in server
Message-ID: <8zYj8.63$5Kn.179044352@news.telia.no>

Got a webserver based on BaseHTTPServer using threads and I want a simple
text-based interface to, like telnet. Would it be possible to have a normal
telnet-client connect to my server somehow, get a prompt for username and
password and be able to run simple commands and see some output ?

This would be very handy for debugging etc.

Thomas




From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar 14 17:31:45 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:31:45 -0500
Subject: GC thread safe?
In-Reply-To: <m3bsdqyfy1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEPDCNAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Dieter Maurer]
> Several Zope users face crashing Python 2.1.2 (SIGSEGV inside
> the garbage collector). The problem only occurs when
> the following conditions are true:
>
>   *  Zope runs in multi-threaded mode
>   *  the cyclic garbage collector is not deactivated
>
> Is the cyclic garbage collector known to be thread safe?

[Martin v. Loewis]
> The garbage collector runs while having the GIL, so it does not need
> to be thread-safe.

There's still a vulnerability here:  gc *assumes* the GIL is held when
_PyObject_GC_Malloc gets called, and doesn't verify that the GIL is in fact
held.  A rogue extension module could violate this precondition without
triggering a predictable error (and then "random" segfaults would be
likely).




From tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk  Tue Mar  5 08:27:55 2002
From: tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk (Toby Dickenson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:27:55 +0000
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
References: <mailman.1015266376.28131.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gsh98uscsam0nc1p6ttivc5ujldpag62si@4ax.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>Given this simple file access permission code:

I would be mildly suprised to see code like that outside a unix
kernel, and the equivalent for NT's more sophisticated security model
would be very much longer.

>how would I do this under Windows?

The usual way in Windows is the same as the usual way on Unix: try to
open the file, and see if works or if you get an error code meaning
"permission denied".

If you want to check accessibility for another user then the
equivalent of setuid are ImpersonateLoggedOnUsed and RevertToSelf


Toby Dickenson
tdickenson at geminidataloggers.com


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Tue Mar 26 05:16:55 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 21:16:55 +1100
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au> <1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost> <m31yec2b9g.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <1017000019.3094.31.camel@localhost> <m3r8m84u3b.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1017068983.18647.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33cyniqg8.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

Ian> Well, you might be able to help the situation some if you create
Ian> a new scope for the macro, and have something like dtml-let --
Ian> that way you could do stuff like.  That way variable assignments
Ian> inside your macro will pass out of scope when the macro finishes,
Ian> and at least not overwrite things in the main scope.

That seems reasonable.  A simple way to do that would be use a special
tag to enclose the fragment of template which you wanted to be in a
local scope.

Ian> You can use some form of let to manipulate the namespace when it
Ian> doesn't match what the macro expects.  This is what DTML does,
Ian> and I assume ZPT uses the same mechanisms (it only seems to be a
Ian> change of syntax).

Ian> I don't like this at all, though, as there's all sorts of
Ian> problems that pop up when you start abstracting things more
Ian> deeply.  Also, I think macros are very important, and keeping
Ian> them python-like is a very nice.  Then you can define, inside a
Ian> single template, not only the full page style, but the style of
Ian> components of the page.  For instance, I create pages that create
Ian> headers with lists underneath them, all entirely dynamic.  If the
Ian> template can define what a header and what a list should look
Ian> like, then I have much more power over the look of the page.

Ian> I'd pass arguments like:

Ian> <al-somemacro arg1="value1" arg2="value2">

Ian> This seems pretty straight-forward, and also maps directly to
Ian> keyword arguments.  You could add the syntax:

Ian> <al-somemacro arg1 arg2="value2">

Albatross macros are a little bit more interesting and useful.  In one
of the samples (the sybase browser) there is a macro for drawing a box
around enclosed content.  The HTML for doing a box is a bit nasty and
non-obvious.  This is the macro:

<al-macro name="box">
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" bgcolor="black" width="97%">
<tr><td>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2">
<tr><td bgcolor="white"><al-usearg></td></tr>
</table>
</td></tr>
</table>
</al-macro>

The interesting thing to note is the <al-usearg> tag.  This is where
content passed to the macro will be placed.  To enclose anything in a
box all you need to do is this:

<al-expand name="box">
Draw a box around me!
</al-expand>

This is what happens when you combine the two things:

>>> from albatross import SimpleContext, Template
>>> ctx = SimpleContext('.')
>>> t = ctx.load_template('macros.html')
>>> t.to_html(ctx)
>>> t = Template(ctx, '', '''<al-expand name="box">
... Draw a box around me!
... </al-expand>
... ''')
>>> t.to_html(ctx)
>>> ctx.flush_content()
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" bgcolor="black" width="97%">
<tr><td>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2">
<tr><td bgcolor="white">Draw a box around me!
</td></tr>
</table>
</td></tr>
</table>

You can nest macros if you like:

>>> t = Template(ctx, '', '''<al-expand name="box">
... <al-expand name="box">
... Draw two boxes
... </al-expand>
... </al-expand>
... ''')
>>> t.to_html(ctx)
>>> ctx.flush_content()
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" bgcolor="black" width="97%">
<tr><td>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2">
<tr><td bgcolor="white"><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" bgcolor="black" width="97%">
<tr><td>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2">
<tr><td bgcolor="white">Draw two boxes
</td></tr>
</table>
</td></tr>
</table>
</td></tr>
</table>
</td></tr>
</table>

There are lots of interesting things you can do with the macros.  The
above example used a single argument macro.  You can pass multiple
arguments simply by naming them.  The Albatross manual goes into quite
a bit more detail.

Ian> It should also be fairly easy to create Python functions that do
Ian> the same thing as the macro.

It is quite easy.  That would defeat the effort to separate the
presentation and implementation though.

Ian> Some people will still want to pass in entire namespaces... you
Ian> could use inclusion instead of macros in that case, or make
Ian> another form of macros.  You could also make another form of
Ian> setting variables, that sets them globally (perhaps as constants)
Ian> -- this is much cleaner than making every passing variable and
Ian> loop global.

I agree - there are lots of things that could be done.  Coming up with
some "simple" things which can be used for multiple purposes is the
challenge.  It is only by having our assumptions challenged that we
will be able to improve what we currently have.  Your constructive
criticism is making me revisit some of the early decisions and look
at them in a new light.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 27 12:36:47 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0500
Subject: instrumenting Python code
References: <1010a26.0203262213.4a0d4b11@posting.google.com> <3CA16839.1A21E36A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017234342.12592.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7svvf$btf$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017234342.12592.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Or, in 2.2, the new hotshot module, which is a lot more efficient at
>profiling than the profile module.

Where is hotshot?  I don't see it anywhere.  It's not even on the Vaults
of Parnassus.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Mar 14 11:40:10 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:40:10 -0800
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it> <slrna91io0.ha5.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6qk8b$g4ela$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

phil hunt
> >I recently bought "Programming Python" by O'Really,
> 
> Oh. Really?
> 

LOL... good ketch... ;-)

-- 

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From selectfincon at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 21:51:00 2002
From: selectfincon at yahoo.com (Jim)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 18:51:00 -0800
Subject: python shell
Message-ID: <edd9bc66.0203141851.535c1e20@posting.google.com>

When I try to exit the python shell under windows XP
it hangs. Is there some trick to this?


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 18:58:21 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:58:21 +0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <Xns91C4AE233CF92rcamesz@amesz.demon.nl> <3C7FF015.D1A00D13@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Olay+iAdWBg8EwbJ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <3C7FF015.D1A00D13 at ccvcorp.com>, Jeff Shannon
<jeff at ccvcorp.com> writes
.....
>Note that you've got an extra backslash in your version -- you want a
>single escaped double quote after 'bongo.exe', not an escaped backslash
>followed by an unescaped double quote.  Raw strings will save you much
>pain.
>
.....
interestingly I don't seem to need the \ quotes in win2k. What system is
it that needs those?

I know that in unices it's possible to create files with very odd names
including things with spaces in. Therefore the included space can happen
and there I would expect to be able to use either " " or ' ' and
provided that system/popen uses a shell I would expect to get away with
quite strange paths.
-- 
Robin Becker


From wayne at mishre.com  Thu Mar  7 01:43:38 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:43:38 -0800
Subject: [Newbie] Code for web-based "members" database?
References: <a7d71b8.0203062047.44b72317@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C870C1A.6000802@mishre.com>


Damon Lynch wrote:
> Hi everyone, 
> 
> Does anybody have any suggestions for finding code that will help
> solve the following problem:
> 
> I have a members database whose main purpose is to allow members to
> view other members based on interest areas (and geographical location,
> projects etc. etc.).  The database should reflect that areas of
> interest are related to one another in non hierarchal ways.  For
> instance, supposing an area of interest is biodiversity conservation,
> and another area is urban air pollution, and another is organic
> agriculture.  Anyone doing a members' search on environment should
> find people with those areas of interest.  But someone doing a search
> on agriculture should find organic agriculture, and not urban air
> pollution.
> 
> It would be nice if people could suggest new areas of interest for
> validation.

Not sure what you mean by this, any examples?

> The database is currently stored in a flat file (yuck!).  It could be
> stored in a relational database, assuming that is the best way of
> storing it.  Or any other manner I suppose!

I've done similar things with skills for tech projects in the past, I 
dind't want to deal with SQL schemas so I typically use Metakit.  In the 
situations I have needed there was only a few people writing to the 
database.

Depending on the amount of data, you may want to consider SQL or ZODB. 
I don't like making SQL schemas so I tend to avoid it.

> Unsurprisingly, access to this database is over the web. A relatively
> minor point is that I use e-mail addresses from  to send out regular
> e-mail updates.
> 
> Is there already-existing python code that handles this type of
> problem?

The stuff I wrote was for my last company, so I don't have the code any 
more...it should be straight forward to implement though.  Create a list 
  for the groups, with each entry in the list being the sub groups. 
This way if you search for a group it will know what sub-groups to match 
as well, but you can still search for the individual item without 
dealing with the groups.

HTH,

-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 12:22:31 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:22:31 -0500
Subject: newbie question on lists, getting an error on basic addition
References: <uggeauc292padb9gk6ghcmghv82g888i3l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a87gkn$e3g$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <uggeauc292padb9gk6ghcmghv82g888i3l at 4ax.com>,
John Warney  <john at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>>> counter = 0
>>>> answer = 0
>>>> alist
>[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>>> counter
>0
>>>> answer
>0
>>>> while counter < 6:
>... 	answer = answer + alist[counter]
>... 	counter = counter + 1
>... 	
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 2, in ?
>IndexError: list index out of range
>>>> answer
>10

Add a print counter at the top of your loop and you'll see why.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From dix at none.com  Sun Mar  3 06:38:36 2002
From: dix at none.com (dix)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:38:36 GMT
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
Message-ID: <0Xng8.33257$Ns4.1344751@news2.tin.it>

Hi to all,

I am going to develop a client server application in Python.
It will be a Document Management software (Windows environment).
I choosed Python as language, wxPython for GUIs building and MySQL for data
storing.
Since I need this app deals with both binary documents (Word files, Excel
files, etc.) and with paper based documents, I need to know if there is a
free library for Python to manage Twain scanners in order to pilot the
scanner and have an image representation of the paper document.
I would like also your advice to find a solution to convert these images in
Acrobat PDF format: for the moment I just tought at the possibility to
automate the COM interface of Acrobat Distiller from Python. Any other idea?

Thank you very very much in advance for your kind help!

dix




From cbbrowne at acm.org  Tue Mar 12 00:52:42 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 00:52:42 -0500
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <m3sn76wcwl.fsf@salesman.cbbrowne.com>

Tim Hammerquist <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote:
> Graz Bukanoff <drevenhaug at hotmail.com> graced us by uttering:
> > Is Python an object based programming langauge?
> 
> According to Smalltalk enthusiasts, definitely not.
> 
> According to some Pythonistas, yes.
> 
> IMNERHO, Python is object _oriented_, but not object _based_. I don't
> fault Python for this; it was a design decision, and probably a good
> one.
> 
> If the question were "Can Python model my OOP idea?", the answer is an
> emphatic yes.

That depends somewhat on your OOP idea.

If the OOP idea is to use classes to define a hierarchy of methods,
then sure.

If your "OOP idea" is to have generic functions ala CLOS, or to do
FLAVORS-style mixins, then possibly not.
-- 
(reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn@" "enworbbc"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/wp.html


From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar  9 01:22:13 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:22:13 GMT
Subject: wxPython seg faults under RH7.2
References: <slrna8j7dl.cn0.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8jahc.qal.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <slrna8j7dl.cn0.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:

> I can not get wxPython to work on a RH7.2 system.
> 
> I have gtk 1.2.10 and  wxGTK 2.3.2.1 installed. Gtk came with
> RH7.2 and wxGTK was installed from binary RPMs downloaded from
> wxwindows.org.
> 
> I built and installed wxPython 2.3.2.1 from sources using
> Python 2.1.1.  The build/install seemed to work fine, but 
> even the most trivial wxPython apps just seg fault.

Switching from gcc 2.95.4 to 2.96 fixed the problem.  

Some other program I was trying to build wouldn't work with
2.96, so I had downgraded to 2.95.4.

Somebody owes us all an apology for the 2.96 mess...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. Now KEN and BARBIE
                                  at               are PERMANENTLY ADDICTED to
                               visi.com            MIND-ALTERING DRUGS...


From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Wed Mar 20 12:30:28 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:30:28 -0500
Subject: Python2.2 Installation
Message-ID: <jjb5-244142.12302820032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

I downloaded and almost installed Python 2.2 from the Python-2.2.tgz 
release on SF by doing the 'usual "gunzip; tar; configure; make" dance'.  
I now have a Python-2.2 directory which seems to work by itself.

Now I'm trying to add the pyserial-1.12 extensions by using distutils 
and getting the following error:

    distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: invalid Python 
installation: unable to open /usr/local/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile 
(No such file or directory)

So how do I complete the installation so that Python2.2 is at least in 
/usr/bin?  How do I replace the 1.5.2 installation that came 
preinstalled (which is in /bin)?


Joel


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar  3 19:07:27 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:07:27 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-145FF7.08215401032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3C82BABF.B632A4FB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.1014990243.30815.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote:
> 
> > Of course, if anyone actually cared about this syntax, we would have a
> > PEP with a pro/con section, so we wouldn't have to reiterate the same
> > arguments over and over again <wink>
> 
> I was starting to think it might be time to write a PEP,
> but then Tim's comment about how he dislikes iterating over 3
> discouraged me.

Bjorn is talking about "for x < i < y", though, which
is a different proposal from the one about iterating
over 3. I think they deserve to be judged separately.

I'm too busy to write a PEP on this myself right
now, as I'm working on another Python-related project.
I may do it if nobody else has done it by the time I get
through that.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From gleki at gol.ge  Sun Mar 24 18:25:12 2002
From: gleki at gol.ge (Giorgi Lekishvili)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:25:12 -0800
Subject: advanced Python
Message-ID: <3C9E6058.8D3EFE6F@gol.ge>

Hello!

I wonder if someone prompts me a book dedicated to the advanced topics
of python?

Something tailored a-la "Advanced C++" by James O. Coplien...

Thanx in advance!

Best regards,
Giorgi



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 18:53:57 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:53:57 -0800
Subject: Eliminate Spam Now... >g< Python w/DNS/&POP3
References: <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002@typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a72e6l.3vs6o4v.1@kserver.org>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:56:15 GMT, Benjamin Schollnick
<junkster at rochester.rr.com> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<junkster-2D9783.16561617032002 at typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>:

> Folks,
> 
>    I'm running into a slight problem...
> 
>    I'm attempting to use the (py)DNSlib (sourceforge project), to look 
> up Spammers via ORBZ (or similiar group)...
> 
>    And I'm able to pull up the DNS information, but every entry I try 
> response with a valid root level DNS entry....  Can anyone enlighten me 
> regarding the operations of the black hole lists?  I can't seem to find 
> any of the sights that explain the actual functionality.
> 
>    (I've tried reversing the octets [i.e. 13.175.214.14 == 
> 14.214.175.13], with no luck)
> 
>             = Benjamin

This will do it for you. Note that I'm using the Spamcop black hole list,
but you can use any one you want:

import socket

def IP_in_bl(host, IPaddy):
    IPquads = IPaddy.split('.')
    IPquads.reverse()
    reverseIP = '.'.join(IPquads)

    IPlookup = "%s.%s" % (reverseIP, host)
    try:
        resolvesIP = socket.gethostbyname(IPlookup)
        if resolvesIP.startswith('127.'):
            return 1
    except socket.gaierror:
        return 0

###############################
#
#  begin main test program
#
###############################

IPaddy = '211.192.182.125'
host = 'bl.spamcop.net'

if IP_in_bl(host, IPaddy):
    print "OPEN RELAY!!!"
else:
    print "not a known Open Relay."



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/





From andreas at mtg.co.at  Fri Mar  1 03:33:19 2002
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:33:19 +0100
Subject: xor on strings
In-Reply-To: <%hI98.3302$pC1.668524@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <QbH98.3291$pC1.663612@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
	<3c674cbd_2@corp.newsgroups.com>
	<%hI98.3302$pC1.668524@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20020301093319.4b73f174.andreas@mtg.co.at>

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 05:04:59 GMT
"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote:

> the truncate part is the problem.  I am building VB Hex strings to send to a
> VB server.  so
> 
> >>> red = hex(56)[2:4]
What about:
red=56
green=156
blue=12
thestring="%02x%02x%02x" % (red,green,blue)
> >>> green = hex(156)[2:4]
> >>> blue = hex(12)[2:4]
> >>> thestring = '&H' + blue + green + red
> 
> but here, since the blue string is only 1 character it throws the rest off.

Andreas



From bh at intevation.de  Mon Mar 11 13:18:32 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 19:18:32 +0100
Subject: Integers class...?
References: <slrna8ffpo.dba.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <3C882BF0.B7B6A239@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <6qd6yf461k.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> <3C8C2ACF.D7B2FEA@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <6qk7sjhssn.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> > 
> > Slices support a step parameter, so
> > 
> >     for x in int[9:-1:-1]:
> 
> I don't consider that a good solution, for
> two reasons:
> 
> (1) I'm not sure what the semantics are of
> slices with negative steps.  There are at 
> least 4 equally plausible interpretations of 
> [a:b:-c] if you count all the possible
> combinations of endpoint swapping and 
> open/closed swapping.

I'm not sure about this, too. However, if it meant anything else than in
range it would be very confusing.

> (2) Even if the semantics are well-defined,
> it's too mind-bending remembering and applying
> them correctly in any given situation. It's
> no better than range(a,b,-c) in that respect.

Right. And for the most simple case where you only have the stop value
it seems more inconvenient than range because you have to supply the
start value or assume that int considered as a sequence implicitly
starts at 0 (which would be the only reasonable thing to do, perhaps,
otherwise int[:10] would start with -sys.maxint - 1).

The only advantage I can see in subscripting int over range is that it
could be defined to return an interator. 

It might be better to introduce special code in the interpreter for the
case where the sequence argument of for is just a range call and range
is actually the builtin function. This would only take care of the
optimization possibilities, of course.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 06:39:51 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 11:39:51 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017481612.990.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a84867$8cl$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Tim,

> [Guido]
> > > 5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
> > > believes it should return an int because it's been documented as
> > > such.
> 
> [Ralph Corderoy]
> > Unlike Tim to produce such a poor reason.  Has he been paraphrased
> > a little too much?
> 
> Not in Guido's eyes <wink>.  We don't need 3 equivalent ways to turn
> an arbitrary expression into a bool ("bool(x)" same-as "not not (x)"
> same-as "truth(x)").  *Especially* if str(bool) and repr(bool)
> produce 'True' and 'False', people have a legitimate need to make an
> arbitrary true/false expression produce 0 and 1 too, if only to
> preserve 0/1-based true/false output.  operator.truth() has always
> been the best way to do exactly that.  Alternatives like "(boolexpr)
> + 0" and "(boolexpr) and 1 or 0" and "(0, 1)[boolexpr]" reek in
> comparison.

Aha!  Well, now I've got your side of the argument, and you've
co-incidentally snipped Guido's point of view, I'm firmly in favour of
yours  ;-)

I've happily used `!!x' in C and found `not not x' in Python wordy so
I'm much in favour of operator.truth returning 0 or 1.

Cheers,


Ralph.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 31 05:47:11 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 12:47:11 +0200
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com> <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA6B051.6D55B4D5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <m3ofh5m2ts.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> But your point in the message I was replying to was that there
> are 300 functions which have code that says "return 0" or "return 1"
> or "return None" and the change will help users of those functions.  
> Didn't that imply those users are not looking at the documentation,
> but are trying to read the source to figure out how the code works?

No. It implied that users read the source of the code; whether or not
they look at the documentation was not implied.

> If the documentation must be changed, why not just make it clear in
> the documentation what it means when a method returns 1 or 0 or
> None?

The documentation already says that. However "If the section in fact
existed, return 1.  Otherwise return 0." leads to the question "why
aren't you returning a boolean value?", to which the answer is
"because they are not supported in the language".

> True, False = 1, 0
> 
> Or, now that I think of it, will that continue to work as these
> will just be built-ins now hidden by my local definitions?  

Indeed, yes.

> If so, my bad for mentioning code breakage.

There still might be code breakage, but it will be much less frequent
than you feared.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 07:19:10 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:19:10 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017227442.25823.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA1B8BE.3DB000B7@engcorp.com>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> > > >Peter Hansen:
> > > > If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.
> > > > And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.
> > >
> > > Tisk tisk.  Only half of the apologising you do for the other person.
> > > The other half you do for yourself.
> >
> > Not sure I understand the sentiment, but perhaps it would have
> > helped you if I included an explicit smiley?  That _was_ a joke.
> > Happily, I think from Tim's reply he understood and took it that way.
> > (The reference to Asimov might be obscure to some.  Sorry.)
> >
> > Thanks for the gentle advice though. :)
> >
> > -Peter
> 
> Ick, i thought that _was_ from Asimov, but now that I looked that up,
> it isn't there.  So the new question is -- where did I read that?  And
> clearly a long time ago ... I haven't been to the tree I remember reading
> the book in for at least 25 years ....

>From "I, Robot" and others, the Three Laws of Robotics.  (I just happen
to have been rereading this on the weekend, so I guess the thought
stuck.)

First Law was "A robot may not injure a human being or, through
inaction, allow a human to come to harm".

Second: "A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings
except where such orders would conflict with the First Law".

Third: "A robot must protect its own existence as long as such
protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law".

* * *

I'm told your posting was "definitely a form of humor"
although there's uncertainty whether it was sarcasm, irony, or 
something else (uncertainty mostly on my part :-).

Not sure we're on the same wavelength, but as long as no one 
meant to offend anyone else, I guess we'll survive even if I
still don't understand what just happened. :-)

-Peter


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sun Mar 10 07:04:35 2002
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 12:04:35 GMT
Subject: import gadfly causes 500 Server Error -- anyone know how to fix?
References: <3C8AFB43.275714BB@erols.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8minl.tjv.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Jerry Gitomer <jgitomer at erols.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Hi,
> 
> I have an application I am porting from Python with Tkinter to
> Python on the Web.
> I built my first set of scripts by copying something that worked
> and then modifying
> one idea at a time.  Everything was fine until I tried to add a
> query into a gadfly database.
> 
> I discovered that adding the "import gadfly" statement results
> in:
> 
> 500 Server Error
> 
> The server encountered an internal error and could not complete
> your request. 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on why and how to fix?

Is gadfly installed on the server?

If not, the import is obviously going to fail...

-- 
Remco Gerlich




From ark at research.att.com  Sat Mar 30 11:04:13 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 11:04:13 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
	<200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
	<200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <yu991ye2xcsi.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Guido> Another argument for deriving bool from int: implementation
Guido> inheritance.  A bool must behave just like an int, and this is
Guido> most easily accomplished this way: the bool type doesn't have
Guido> implementations for most operations: it inherits them from the
Guido> int type, which find a bool acceptable where an int is
Guido> required.

Liskov substitutibility would seem to suggest deriving int from bool,
not the other way around.  That is: If I have a program that uses bool
values, I can change it so that it uses int values without affecting
the behavior of the program.  The reverse is not true.

I wonder if this is the circle-ellipse problem over again?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark



From news at charneyday.com  Tue Mar  5 00:37:37 2002
From: news at charneyday.com (Reginald B. Charney)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 05:37:37 GMT
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
Message-ID: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

In Python, are destructors defined to be invoked in reverse order of
constructors? The following program illustrates the problem:

class HTML:
    def __init__(self): print "<HTML>"
    def __del__(self):  print "</HTML>"

class BODY:
    def __init__(self): print "<BODY>"
    def __del__(self):  print "</BODY>"

class PHP:
    def __init__(self): print "<?PHP "
    def __del__(self):  print "?>"

if __name__ == "__main__":
    print "Start of program"
    h = HTML()
    b = BODY()
    p = PHP()
    print "Body should appear before all destructors"

The output I get using Python 2.2 is:

C:\WINDOWS>python "c:\my documents\t1.py"
Start of program
<HTML>
<BODY>
<?PHP
Body should appear before all destructors
?>
</HTML>
</BODY>

C:\WINDOWS>

The last two tags are out of order. They should have been </BODY> and then
</HTML>. I also ran this program with the names of the classes changed to
T1, T2, and T3 and the order of destructor invocation was correct: T3, T2,
T1. Thus, it seems to be a "order of name" issue. This problem also occurs
under Python 2.2 under Linux (SuSE 7.3). Under Python 1.5.2, the destructors
are never invoked.

Basically, I need to know if the order of destruction is guaranteed to be
the reverse of construction when reference counts on the objects are the
same (e.g., 1 on this case). Without this guarantee, I don't understand how
Python can effectively use destructors - it falls into the same hole as
Java. For me, this is a show-stopper.

Reg.




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Mar 12 07:59:41 2002
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:59:41 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926800.10545.python-list@python.org> <eabGhiAXGej8EwyU@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a6ku3u$a6j$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

> all the evidence suggests that python.net (or whatever it will be
> called) will not be python as we know it. Apparently .net will not
> support multiple inheritance etc etc. There was an interesting recent

I don't see how the limitations of .NET (or rather the CLI part of it)
differ from those of the Java VM. So it might not be Python as we know it,
but it might be useful in certain applications.

And of course it might also be useful to port CPython to the .NET C compiler
and adding a .NET <-> Python layer.

> Another
> example of embrace and strangle.

.NET is more another failed example of UNCOL

Daniel





From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Mar 23 15:09:07 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:09:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Extending the interactive mode [not really an ANN :) ]
In-Reply-To: <E16oip4-0008BL-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020323120907.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 23-Mar-2002 Tjabo Kloppenburg wrote:
> hi,
> 
> I use python22 and dreamt about a comfortable way of using the interactive 
> mode to find information about what methods/functions a class/module provides
> and what the helpful __doc__ string says (keeping ri [ruby] in my mind).
> 
> The annoying way to do this in python interactive mode -- with lots of key 
> strokes and many risks of mistypnig -- is to type:
>   print mod.__doc__     +Enter
>   print dir(mod)    +Enter
> 
> So I finally wrote a very small function to be loaded from PYTHONSTARTUP when
> using interactive mode. It is self explanatory and gives you information 
> about a module by typing "info(mod)". Fairly easy...
> 

from pydoc import help
help()

give that a shot.



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Mar  1 08:50:12 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 14:50:12 +0100
Subject: fileinput not Unicode compatible? / UTF16 codec problems
References: <9ac02e81.0203010507.377dba0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4n0xscs8b.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jhorneman at pobox.com (Jurie Horneman) writes:

> Is it possible that the fileinput module is not Unicode compatible?

That is certainly possible. You'd need to tell it the encoding for
opening files; that is currently not supported.

> Because I have a little endian 16-bit Unicode file and have trouble
> reading it in. Decoding it with the UTF16 LE decoder gives me a
> 'truncated data' error. 

I assume you first split the input into lines, then try the decoding?
That does not work with UTF-16; you first need to decode, then split
into lines.

> Oddly, this problem doesn't occur for every line.

No, but for every second line. The UTF-16 decoder will complain if you
don't give it an even number of bytes. After the first line is read,
the second will (incorrectly) start with a NUL byte, which fills this
line to an even number of bytes, again. Decoding as UTF-16 will
succeed, but will give you garbage: the wrong bytes will get grouped
to form a character.

> Is there a solution for this, apart from rewriting a number of modules
> myself?

As long as it is fileinput only, I recommend to rewrite your code to
not use that module; this is probably simpler than rewriting the
module to support encodings in full generality.

Of course, patches will be welcome; if you do change fileinput, please
submit a patch to sf.net/projects/python.

> Is there any documentation on which Python modules are Unicode-aware
> or not?

Not that I'm aware of. In most cases, if issues become known, they
problems will be corrected instead of being documented.

> Oh, and how does one handle big endian / little endian Unicode when
> the UTF16 decoders look for BOMs at the start of each string, but I
> only have on at the start of the file? There seems to be no way for me
> to tell it which endianness I have, apart from circumventing the codec
> and calling the right version myself.

You cannot decode UTF-16 on a line-by-line basis. Instead, you need to
use a stream reader, which will remember the right encoding across
.read or .readline invocations (only since Python 2.2, AFAIR). The
most convenient way to open a Unicode stream is to use codecs.open,
passing the encoding. In case of UTF-16, the endianness will be
determined on first .read* invocation.

HTH,
Martin


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 10:22:35 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:22:35 +0000
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
Message-ID: <2OVMEJA7kKm8EweI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

Is there an obvious reason why modules imported from the current
directory don't have an absolute pathname for __file__?

I can see there might be a need to identify such relative modules in
some way, but it would be good to always be able to identify the
modules.
-- 
Robin Becker


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 17 20:05:25 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:05:25 +0100
Subject: Python/JXTA
In-Reply-To: <b1078faa.0203171654.45461a49@posting.google.com>
References: <b1078faa.0203171654.45461a49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020318010525.GA56981@lilith.hqd-internal>

* moxie <moxie_is at yahoo.com> [2002-03-17 16:54 -0800]:
> It may be a good idea to create Python bindings for
> JXTA (P2P [peer-2-peer] networking solution from Sun)...
> 
> http://www.jxta.org/project/www/background.html
 
Sure. Go on.

Or just use Jython (IIRC the reference implementation was in Java).

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 7.9 ?C      Wind: 2.2 m/s



From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 20 11:33:40 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:33:40 +0000
Subject: Message bug?
In-Reply-To: <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj@4ax.com>
References: <99dh9us1b4d8r9u7p5ltt41g34vlun4kjj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20020320163340.GF18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 04:15:38PM +0000, Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> Would I be right in thinking that this message quite what the
> developer intended?
> 
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'work'
> 
> I have no module called 'module'. 
> 
> Python 2.2 on Win2K.

I don't think you would be right, ie that message is probably
perfectly correct, you're just misinterpreting it.

The error message doesn't imply that you have a module called
'module'.  It implies that you're trying to access the 'work'
attribute of some object which _is a module_, but whose name is not,
alas, reported here.

Here's a demonstration using python2.3.  I import some module, then
try to access a non-existent attribute called "foo", and get the same
error as you.

Python 2.3a0 (#1, Mar 19 2002, 14:46:42) 
[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import struct
>>> struct.foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'foo'

Interestingly, the error message in 2.1 is somewhat more helpful in
that it tells us which module we're trying to acces:

Python 2.1.2 (#1, Mar 14 2002, 10:30:29) 
[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import struct
>>> struct.foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'struct' module has no attribute 'foo'

Does anyone know why this changed?  Even so, if you have a traceback
from a running program that'll probably tell you the module name.

By the way, it's almost always a good idea to post actual code (and/or
a full traceback, if talking about exceptions).  That way we might
actually be able to tell you _exactly_ what's wrong.  :-)

Hope this helps,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Mar 12 17:56:51 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:56:51 +1100
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1FB@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Duncan Booth [mailto:duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk]
> 
> sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote in 
> 
> > There's even a story that the date of
> > introduction in Sweden varied by parish!
> 
> Dont forget that Sweden even had a 30th February one year!

All calendars are ridiculous. It should be very simple ...

13 x 28 day (4 week) months = 364 days.

1 "extra" day (new year?)
1 additional day in leap years.

The extra days can be used to absorb leap seconds, etc.

You can also define that each month begins on a particular day of the week
(say Sunday). The extra days of the year do not actually have a day of the
week, and would always be between Saturday and Sunday.

IIRC this is the system that the shire hobbits used.

Why was this simple system never adopted?

Tim Delaney



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 15 22:01:36 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:01:36 -0800
Subject: This may seem a slightly strange problem ...
References: <jSSm1aIaVlk8Ewdu@[127.0.0.1]>
Message-ID: <a6uct4$h8dv4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Chris" <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:jSSm1aIaVlk8Ewdu@[127.0.0.1]...
> I want to learn programming - just for fun - and to learn more about
> computing - and the problem is I don't know what to write!
>

Maybe you want to start simple with web pages?


> That was to write a program to display all the possible 24-bit colours
> in a systematic way.
>

If that interests you, take a look at trying to duplicate something
like:

http://www.hypersolutions.org/images/rgbhex.gif as html.  You could also
use python to generate the html.


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Wed Mar 27 00:33:56 2002
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:33:56 GMT
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
References: <mailman.1017181541.7972.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8Rco8.1017$0b.176940@news1.west.cox.net>

Try this out! For n=100, it's only twice as fast, but try it for n=1000, or
n=2000 and it really shines.... (I think it even gives the right answer,
which is a plus.)

-tim

def fact4(n):
    from sys import maxint
    mult = 1
    result = 1L
    subresult = 1
    max_sub_result = maxint / n
    for mult in range(n+1):
        subresult *= mult
        if subresult > max_sub_result:
            result *= subresult
            subresult = 1
    return result * subresult

"Steven Majewski" <sdm7g at virginia.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017181541.7972.python-list at python.org...
>
>
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
>
> >
> > On 26-Mar-2002 m2 at plusseven.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Just out curiosity,
> > > why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
> > >
> > > def fact1(n):
> > >     return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
> > >
> >
> > bigger problem here.  fact2 returns a long, fact1 returns an integer.
So
> > fact1(100) fails.
> >
>
>
> reduce(operator.mul, range(1,n+1), 1L )
>
>  fixes that, but it's even slower.
>
> -- Steve Majewski
>
>
>




From quadzero at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Mar 15 14:41:14 2002
From: quadzero at users.sourceforge.net (Richard Harlos)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 11:41:14 -0800
Subject: unittest.py: what is TestResult.__repr__   ?
Message-ID: <332433e4.0203151141.1e7d92d7@posting.google.com>

I'm not a Python programmer (at least, not yet ;)

I am, however, trying to port the unittest.py framework to another
language.  Of all the languages that this testing framework has been
ported to, I thought that Python would be the easiest for me to
decipher.  For the most part, it seems pretty straightforward, except
for...

I'm presently stuck in the TestResult class.  Though I've searched for
the meaning of "__repr__" in the Python22 documentation, I cannot find
it.

Please help me understand this this convention of using leading and/or
trailing underscores in Python.

Thanks in advance...

Richard


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 15 08:55:59 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:55:59 -0500
Subject: Disabling rexec for ActiveScripting in Local Intranet Zone?
References: <a6q3hf$2br$1@nixe.ISAR.net> <3C912376.7020902@skippinet.com.au> <a6saj7$isv$1@nixe.ISAR.net>
Message-ID: <u93v2m5ct8748f@news.supernews.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:a6saj7$isv$1 at nixe.ISAR.net...
> Mark Hammond wrote:
>
> > I have no idea :)  I would expect that if
> > IE has set security approriately, then Python
> >  would not operate under rexec at all - this is
> > certainly what happens for WScript and ASP.
>
> It doesn't. Is there a way to manually
> disable rexec? (Like, patching lib/rexec.py).
>
> > What version of win32all?
>
> win32all-146.exe for python2.2

Correct my occasionally faulty memory, but wasn't there
a bug report on this, and the feature was withdrawn until
the sandbox (?) could be fixed properly?

John Roth
>
>




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Mar 24 10:34:46 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:34:46 +0200
Subject: 2.2 open
In-Reply-To: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Robin Becker wrote:

> but now I see
> 
> >>> __import__
> <built-in function __import__>
> >>> type(__import__)
> <type 'builtin_function_or_method'>
> >>> open
> <type 'file'>
> >>> type(open)
> <type 'type'>
> 
> 
> So open is now a file? That seems a bit odd to me.

Correction: open is the type of file.

> It seems that some built ins now have the type of the object they
> create. Pretty weird logic.  

Correction: some built ins are the type of the object they create.

Notice that in 2.2 types and classes are unified.

Regards,
	Pearu



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sun Mar 31 13:09:58 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: Tkinter + import question
Message-ID: <3ca754d4$1_1@nopics.sjc>

i am writting a program utilizing Tk as my gui engine, and i have broken
down sections of the form into modules and loaded them through a main
script. my only question is in every module i am forced to import the
Tkinter module, and does this pose consume too much memory? or does python
delegates itself? or is there a way to just load Tkinter into one module and
have it received by all? i assumed this was done when i declared Tkinter in
one module then all other modules would 'inherit' the Tkinter module, but
that wasnt the case.

any sugguestions is greatly appreciated.

Adonis




From BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com  Thu Mar 14 09:35:28 2002
From: BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:35:28 GMT
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it>
Message-ID: <Qy2k8.377386$Aw2.31139131@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Federico Caboni" <msx at crs4.it> wrote in message
news:B8B657B9.B46%msx at crs4.it...
> On 14-03-2002 12:26, in article
> Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000 at muir, "Antonis C Koutalos"
> <ack at ee.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
> There are a lot of books about Python nowadays (and, yes,that's GOOD).
> I found "Python Essential Reference" by New Riders a very useful book
> (that is, if you want a brief but deep explanation of the language,
> Provided that you had previous programming experience with other
> Languages..) but, AFAIK, it's still based on Python 1.5.2.
The second edition (updated to Python 2.1) has been available for some time
now. I second the recommendation.


--
// Brett g Porter * Lead Engineer, Development Practices
// BgPorter at artlogic.com * www.artlogic.com
// Art & Logic, Inc. * software engineering and design
// Desktop * Embedded * Web






From cuiod-tec at web.de  Sat Mar  9 07:40:18 2002
From: cuiod-tec at web.de (Jens Gelhaar)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 04:40:18 -0800
Subject: need something like __init__ in classes __classinit__
References: <efc75b6a.0203072331.66cd338f@posting.google.com> <a6ab93$ien$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <efc75b6a.0203090440.6c3c0fff@posting.google.com>

Kevin Jacobs <jacobs at darwin.epbi.cwru.edu> wrote in message news:<a6ab93$ien$1 at eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>...
Hi Kevin,

when I use the Persistent class from ZODB like 

import ZODB
from Persistence import Persistent
# and then your stuff
>   class ClassInit(type):
>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, cls_dict):
>       # Transform __classinit__ into a static method
>       class_init = cls_dict.get('__classinit__',None)
>       if class_init:
>         cls_dict['__classinit__'] = staticmethod(class_init)
> 
>       # Call super instead of type.__new__ to allow cooperative metaclasses
>       return super(ClassInit,cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, cls_dict)
> 
>     def __init__(self, name, bases, cls_dict):
>       # Call __classinit__ if it exists and is callable.
>       # This cannot be done in __new__ since the class may not be completely
>       # initialized by its metaclasses.
>       if callable(getattr(self, '__classinit__',None)):
>         self.__classinit__(self)
> 
>   class ClassInitObject(object):
>     __metaclass__ = ClassInit
> 
>   class Persistent:
>     pass
> 
>   class primary(ClassInitObject,Persistent):
>     def __classinit__(cls):
>       print "In __classinit__:",cls
>     def __init__(self):
>       print "In __init__:",self
> 
I get the following

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "E:\daten\Python\SELBST\meinpythontest.py", line 24, in ?
    class primary(ClassInitObject,Persistent):
  File "E:\daten\Python\SELBST\meinpythontest.py", line 12, in __new__
    return super(ClassInit,cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, cls_dict)
TypeError: metatype conflict among bases

I looks like a conflict between "type" and "extensionclass". 

Beside, for me it would be natural to have a hook during "compile
time" like __classinit__. Serveral years ago I worked with FORTH and
there was no difference between compile and runtime. It was easy to do
everything what can be done during compile time.

I will try to hack a little bit in the source. Thanks

Jens


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 15:59:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 21:59:45 +0100
Subject: what I would like to see in python to make a better "glue" language (Newbie)
References: <899f842.0202261325.6ff3dd54@posting.google.com> <m3sn7nubyy.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <899f842.0202270934.281b65e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7swqa0u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker) writes:

> If there is a package that supports distutils. what is the best way to
> get this done? Post to the python-dev mailing list?

Getting it into the standard library? Add a patch to the SF patch
manager. Make sure you are the author of the code you are
contributing, though - we won't normally incorporate anything without
the explicit permission of the author.

Regards,
Martin


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 19 17:38:32 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:38:32 GMT
Subject: Dictionary Comprehension
References: <3mbe9usoufc2f5ppjmk7lh6ks71pgb45f9@4ax.com> <u663s674b.fsf@python.net> <7xsn6w9pad.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <I5Pl8.33430$l93.6578083@newsb.telia.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> dict comprehensions should be in Python if list comprehensions
> are, even if no one uses them

I'm so glad you're not involved in Python's development.

> I hope no one would say Python needn't recognize 901472937
> because hardly anyone wants to specify that particular integer
> in a program and you can always say 901472936+1 insead.

as I said.

</F>




From gvdbogae at vub.ac.be  Fri Mar  1 19:12:14 2002
From: gvdbogae at vub.ac.be (Geert-Jan Van den Bogaerde)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 01:12:14 +0100
Subject: Stedents Question
In-Reply-To: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
References: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <1015027935.1342.3.camel@gandalf>

On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 00:45, Tony K wrote:
> The question below is a tutorial question that stumps me.  Any suggestions
> would be appreciated.
> Tony
> 
> Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as parameter
> and returns all substrings thereof which match the regexp pattern ab+c. You
> are NOT allowed to use the re module.
> 

Haven't used regexps in a while, but I believe that just means:

def findABBC(str):
    return str == "a" + "b" * len(str[1:-1]) + "c"

Geert-Jan





From vlcusa at vlcank.co.jp  Sun Mar 10 21:33:53 2002
From: vlcusa at vlcank.co.jp (vlcusa at vlcank.co.jp)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 02:33:53 -0000
Subject: Image questionnaire - VLC Co. Ltd.
Message-ID: <20020311023353.8739.qmail@www.canausr.com>

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From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 09:07:56 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:07:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Hexadecimal bytes to integers
References: <3C908ADF.7040009@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <a6qars$p12$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

pekka niiranen wrote:

> How can I convert messages below to list of bytes:
> 
> message = 0x01040000000271
> or
> message = 0104000000A271
> to
> m = [0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,'A',2,7,1]

You're showing nybbles, not bytes.  For bytes,

[int(message[i:i+2], 16) for i in range(2, len(message),2)] 

or

[int(message[i:i+2], 16) for i in range(0, len(message),2)]


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Fri Mar 22 15:34:39 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 20:34:39 GMT
Subject: FastCGI
References: <a7cdh1$bte$1@minotaurus.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de> <slrna9k792.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <3C9A8548.5020404@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9n5av.2e1.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <3C9A8548.5020404 at stroeder.com>, Michael Str?der wrote:
> Would you mind providing a separate distribution I can refer to? A simple 
> link would be sufficient.

Just grab the latest Quixote distribution from
http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/files/quixote/ and extract
fcgi.py; there aren't any dependencies on the rest of Quixote.  Feel
free to make fcgi.py available from somewhere; I don't think we'll
bother to do so.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
"I never make exceptions. An exception disproves the rule."
    -- Sherlock Holmes, in "The Sign of the Four"


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Mar 23 00:16:09 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:16:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: circular imports (don't yell!)
In-Reply-To: <3C9BFCF1.3CF03E1C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020322211609.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> Also, do you realize that "from X import *" is a bad idea
> in general?  I'll assume that was just something you did
> to try to reproduce the problem in a small sample program...
> 

in his defense, the gui libs often expect you have done a from X import *. 
otherwise your commands are fiendishly long and ugly.

win = gui.create_window(gui.top_level, gui.foo, gui.bar)

and so on.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar 13 22:54:40 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:54:40 +1100
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A207@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Gerhard H?ring [mailto:gh_pythonlist at gmx.de]
> 
> I have two lists of files (approx. 50000 entries). Now I want 
> to have all the
> entries of list b, that are not in list a. However, the primitive:
> 
> results = []
> for entry in b:
>     if entry not in a:
>         results.append(entry)
> 
> is terribly slow. I mean *really* slow. Any recommendations 
> on how to optimize
> this? Wouldn't it be nice if I could simply do b.removeall(a)?

Firstly, you are doing 'entry in a' for each entry in b. This is a linear
search through a ... *very* slow.

So, the first thing I would recommend is ...

results = []
c = {}

for entry in a:
    c[entry] = None

for entry in b:
    if c.has_key(entry):
        results.append(entry)

This means you are searching for a key in a dictionary ... a very quick
operation.

A further optimisation is to use the filter() function.

results = []
c = {}

for entry in a:
    c[entry] = None

results = filter(c.has_key, b)

This should give you a couple of orders of magnitude speedup. I would
suggest trying both and comparing the performance.

Tim Delaney



From warrierajit at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  9 23:03:59 2002
From: warrierajit at hotmail.com (warrier)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 20:03:59 -0800
Subject: Tutorials for Tix extension widgets
Message-ID: <f3f1a8f7.0203092003.20b8b12@posting.google.com>

Are there some good tutorials for using Tix extension widgets from
python ? Most of the tutorials I have seen only tell how to do so
using Tcl.


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Mon Mar 11 09:05:40 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:05:40 +0100
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
In-Reply-To: <Xns91CD6742AC189gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <Xns91CD6742AC189gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>
Message-ID: <20020311140540.GB1573@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 10/03/02 ? 15:08, Gordon McMillan ?crivit:
> [...]
> Inno is a free GUI installer you can use:
>  http://www.jrsoftware.org/
> (I recently ran across another free one that claims to be 
> lighter weight, but I guess I didn't bookmark it :-().

You're probably thinking of NSIS, the "Nullsoft (SuperPiMP|Scriptable)
Install System" at http://www.nullsoft.com/free/nsis/

I'm using it because it fits my mind and because its bzip2 compression
is sexy :-)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 17.3 ?C      Wind: 1.2 m/s



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Mar 13 13:30:47 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:30:47 +0300
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <20020313201539.2995aad0.andreas@mtg.co.at>; from andreas@mtg.co.at on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 08:15:39PM +0100
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <20020313201539.2995aad0.andreas@mtg.co.at>
Message-ID: <20020313213047.F31967@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 08:15:39PM +0100, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> And what about:
> db.query("""SELECT   foo, bar
>             FROM     %(table)s
>             WHERE    rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)d
>             AND      name = '%(name)s'""" % locals())
> 
> pure standard Python :)

   This will fail if name = "O'Hara". Or name = 'Tutti"""Frutti'.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Wed Mar 13 09:45:25 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:45:25 +0100
Subject: Parsing system ini files (beginner)
References: <9sJj8.32670$hb6.1954714@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <a6nom0$fkqn0$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Take a look at:
http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-ConfigParser.html

"Jeremie Legault" <jlegault at impathnetworks.com> wrote in message
news:9sJj8.32670$hb6.1954714 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> I am currently teaching myself how to use Python, I have no programming
> experience. In one of the books I am using they have an exercise that asks
> you to create a program that parses the contents of an ".ini" system file.
I
> am not sure what they mean by parse the ".ini" file. If anyone has any
ideas
> could you email me at jivesojer at hotmail.com.
>
> Thank You
> Jeremie
>
>




From narnett at mccmedia.com  Thu Mar 21 23:20:33 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:20:33 -0800
Subject: sgmlParser infinite loop?  How to empty and re-user parser object?
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJAEPEJLAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>

Anyone know of circumstances under which sgmlParser will hang, presumably in
an infinite (well, exceeding my patience, anyway) loop?  I don't seem to be
able to reliably reproduce this, but occasionally during processing of a
large number of pages, I seem to get stuck in it.  I'm doing very simple
parsing, basically just extracting the contents of tables.  I'll re-try the
same set of documents and it'll hang in a different spot.  If it weren't so
unpredictable and infrequent, I'd dig into it with the debugger...

Still fairly new to Python... I'm wondering if I should be re-using a parser
object for each document I'm processing in a loop -- and wondering if the
fact that I'm not is causing these freezes.  But if I call it without
re-instantiating it, I get the same text parsed again... and I can't see how
to tell it to not do that.   Calling reset doesn't seem to do the trick,
even though I seem to have the appropriate reset method that calls the
parent reset.

Thanks for tips.

Nick
--
narnett at mccmedia.com
(408) 904-7198




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar  6 19:44:52 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:44:52 +1100 
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1E8@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu]
> 
> When you say "incorrect", do you mean that "making integers 
> iterable" is 
> different from "allowing automatic conversion of integers to 
> iterators"?

Yes.

> It was my understanding that "for x in y" and "if x in y" 
> converted y to 
> an iterator automatically, by calling iter(y) if necessary.  Integers 
> can be made iterable now, by calling range() on them, but that is not 
> automatic.

That's automatic, but not a *conversion*. It is asking the iterable object
to *supply* an iterator. Calling range() on an integer does not make the
integer iterable ... it creates an (iterable) list using the integer as one
of the bounds.

> In what way would you propose rewording the PEP?  If it's 
> just "PEP 274 
> [4] proposes to make integers iterable, simplifying..." that seems 
> unobjectionable enough.

Or possibly make it more explicit ...

"PEP 274 [4] proposes to make integers iterable by implementing __iter__,
simplifying ...

I would also possibly add the discussion of what iter(-x) should mean i.e.
either counting up from -x to 0 (upper bound exclusive, matches slice
semantics), or counting down from 0 to -x (upper bound exclusive, useful for
traversing sequences in reverse order).

Tim Delaney



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 21 06:53:51 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 03:53:51 -0800
Subject: Problem with Python Extensions
References: <5c2b81.0203202321.50bf8908@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203210353.3fd59068@posting.google.com>

cmbardon at engmail.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Bardon) wrote in message news:<5c2b81.0203202321.50bf8908 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm trying to write a simple Python extension for use in Truespace
> 4.3.
> The problem is, my extension crashes truespace whenever I
> try to import it.  I've created the dll using MS Visual C++ 6 and
> Python 1.5-I've also included the source for the dll below (like I
> said-starting simple).  When I try to import this into truspace's
> python interface (import CommExt), the script causes an invalid page
> exception in MFC42.DLL.  I'm linking this against python15.lib, as
> obtained from python.org.

I presume that Truespace (which I had never heard of until now) is
constraining you to use Python 1.5.2. I also presume that you know
that you can't mix and match --- if the Truespace/Python side is say
2.0, then it will barf on your 1.5.x (you didn't say what x was; it
had better be 2).

"I'm linking this against" implies you are not using distutils. You
should be; it greatly simplifies making extensions. It is available
for Python 1.5.2 as a separate download.

> If anyone has had a similar problem, or can see from my source what my
> problem might be, your help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris Bardon
> 
> 
> //CommExt.cpp

Uh-ohh -- try it as C, not as C++

> //Another stab at making a truespace extension
> 
> #include "Python.h"
> 
> PyObject* comm(PyObject *self, PyObject *args);
> 

It's usual to put the PyMethodDef *after* all the functions; this
reduces the need for forward declarations.

> static PyMethodDef commMethods[] =
> {
>   {"comm", comm, 1},

This is unlikely to be the cause of your crash, but you should really
be using
METH_blah_blah instead of magic numbers like 1.

>   {NULL,      NULL}        /* Sentinel */
> 
> };
> 
> static PyObject *CommExtError;
> 
> extern "C"__declspec(dllexport) void initCommExt()

This doesn't even compile with Borland C version 5.5.

Try the standard spell from xxmodule.c:

DL_EXPORT(void) initCommExt()

If that doesn't work, try just

void InitCommExt()

> {
> 	Py_InitModule("CommExt", commMethods);  //this is the line that
> crashes TS!
> }

The comm() function should be declared as static...

> PyObject* comm(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> {
> 	int result=42;
> 	return Py_BuildValue("i", result);
> }

With the DL_EXPORT line (and no other changes), your code in commext.c
(not .cpp) and a suitable setup.py give the following with Python
1.5.2 and the Borland BCC 5.5 compiler:

Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 13 1999, 10:51:12) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import CommExt
>>> CommExt.comm()
42
>>>

If you manage to get it that far with Python at the command line, then
try using it through Truespace.

HTH,
John


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar  8 00:48:08 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:48:08 -0500
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
References: <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list@python.org> <7x3czc87qq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3C882CBC.4553D21C@engcorp.com> <slrna8geac.igo.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <3C885098.F834FE0A@engcorp.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > See also http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MontyHallProblem for full discussion.
> 
> Most of the explanations are too complicated IMHO. This is how I
> finally understood the problem:

[snip description and ASCII art]

Good job.  I can understand your way of looking at it, and I agree
most (but not all) of the explanations on that wiki were harder
to see.

The nature of wikis being what it is, you really should click
on Edit and add your version to the page.  Eventually somebody
will remove the really obscure ones and leave only the useful
ones.  You could do that now if you wanted...

-Peter


From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Tue Mar 26 12:39:44 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:39:44 -0800
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <Xns91DCA870CFCCDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nqhs$n13nl$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3CA0B260.AAA76F66@activestate.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

>             # According to David Ascher <da at ski.org>, utime() should be done
>             # before chmod() (at least under NT).

Wow.  Old email addresses etched in stone.  And claims of knowledge
which I have no memory of ever posessing.  Alzheimer's striking so
soon...

While we're on the topic of PEP262, I want to mention that we're
currently revisiting the PyPPM architecture.  For those of you who don't
know PyPPM is the Python version of PPM, which is the Programmers
Package Manager.  It was designed for Perl, but there's almost nothing
in PPM which is Perl specific.  PPM uses an XML file for the 'database
of locally installed packages', SOAP for the querying of the remote
database, and is based on a standard (OSD).

PPM has supported uninstallation, dependencies and versioning for a long
time, and is probably worth a look.  There are issues with the way the
PPM bdist target works which we're looking at replacing soon.  PPM3 (for
Perl only so far) is a major rewrite of PPM which added a bunch of cool
features.  For info on that, see: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/PPM.

I'll try to poke my head in this discussion periodically and will read
up on the PEP, but feel free to ask if you have questions about PPM.

--david

PS: Thomas -- where's the source to the code that's embedded in
bdist_wininst?



From fgeiger at datec.at  Mon Mar 11 03:22:41 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:22:41 +0100
Subject: HTML -> XML: Where's HtmlBuilder()?
References: <a6g2t0$pb2$1@rex.ip-plus.net> <m3d6ycrzk6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a6hpfq$1ub$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

> If you have control over the source HTML files, why don't you just
> require that they are XHTML? That would simplify processing
> significantly.

I am working on that, as there already many HTML files already. But as it's
not that bad to mistrust HTML-editors, I'd like to have a kind of built-in
bastion which makes *always sure* that it's XHTML.

Thanks for your answer
Franz


"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:m3d6ycrzk6.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:
>
> > Is HtmlBuilder() deprecated?
>
> It is not supported in PyXML 0.6 and later anymore, since the entire
> DOM implementation has been replaced with 4DOM.
>
> > Which module was it replaced with?
>
> Try xml.dom.ext.reader.HtmlLib.
>
> > What else could I use to convert HTML to XML?
>
> Depends on what you want the conversion to do. If you want to convert
> HTML to XHTML, I think HTMLTidy can do that for you.
>
> > Do I need additional modules for this?
> > Or am I already prepared w/o knowing it?
>
> If you want to use 4DOM, yes, you should have everything you need.
>
> > For those who are curious - the big picture:
> [...]
> > A Shaper applies an XSL file to the HTML pages to make them all look
equally
> > formatted (this is where I am stuck now).
>
> If you have control over the source HTML files, why don't you just
> require that they are XHTML? That would simplify processing
> significantly.
>
> Regards,
> Martin




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sun Mar 17 16:55:26 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:55:26 +0300
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
In-Reply-To: <a71o2b.3vsbk85.1@kserver.org>; from usenet@thinkspot.net on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 09:36:10AM -0800
References: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1016365527.16566.python-list@python.org> <a71o2b.3vsbk85.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <20020318005526.B30949@phd.pp.ru>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 09:36:10AM -0800, Sheila King wrote:
> (1) stability. Can I expect this latest code to be stable? Somehow I would
> think that would be questionable with late releases?

   No, you have to learn development history (CVS is *developer's* tool!)
and checkout latest stable release.
   I heard that Brry is going to release an archive of a stable version...
don't know *when*. I suspect the usual time - Real Soon :)

> (2) distribution. If I want to distribute code that I'm developing, and I
> use the latest CVS releases to develop my code, such that my code relies on
> these CVS releases, how do I distribute code to others who are running the
> standard 2.2 install?

   The simplest (though not the best) solution would be to distribute a
copy of the email package with your code. You know, Python inserts the path
to your application in the beginning of sys.path, so upon "import email"
your copy of the package will be imported, and not standard package.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From st-newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Mar  7 11:42:17 2002
From: st-newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:42:17 +0100
Subject: popen3 on win32 python:2.1.2
Message-ID: <3C879869.3090803@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

popen3() hangs on W2K:

(stdin, stdout, stderr)=popen3('wvWare -x wvware.xml foo.doc')
text=stdout.read()

--> read() never ends.

It works if wvware produces few output, but with larger files it hangs 
(0% CPU usage).

wvware is a binary from gnuwin32.sourceforge.net

I use the python version which comes with zope: 2.1.2
Platform: Windows 2000 SP2

Is this a know problem? Are there workarounds?

  thomas





From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 21:48:48 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:48:48 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8qr56.16e.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:

> I'm considering writing a wxWindows app for Win32.  The only
> way I'm willing to do this is by doing all of the development
> under Unix, and then grit my teeth while I package up the
> final product for Win32.

Well, I wrote and debugged my little app using wxPython under
Linux.  wxPython is pretty easy to pick up.  I tripped over the
geometry management stuff once or twice, but I've been doing Tk
stuff for 6-7 years and never have figured out how Tk packs
things.  The only widget layout scheme I've found that's easier
than wxPython was the box/glue setup in Trestle.

Moving the app to Win32 was surprisingly easy -- there was one
bug in the Win32 wxWindows port I had to work around. Other
than that it just plain worked.

Then I used py2exe to generate my app as an "exe" file along
with about a half-dozen dll and pyd files needed by the exe
file. It would have worked right the very first time, except I
didn't read any of the docs and generated a "console" mode app
instead of a "window" mode app.  A one character change to
setup.py fixed that.

The startup time for my app isn't great, but I was testing
under Win2K on a P266 with 70 or 80 MB of RAM. Everything
pretty much sucks when run on that machine, and mine doesn't
suck that much worse than anything else.

Packaged up the files with inno, and Bob's your uncle!

wxPython and py2exe are just _too_cool_.

Total time required (including writing an emulator for the
network-enabled device to whic my app talks) was about 12
hours.

The previous version of the app (which nobody can get to work
the way they think it's supposed to) was written in C++ and
took 5 or 6 weeks to develop.  I must admit that it does have a
couple feature mine doesn't, although nobody seems to know
how/if they work. ;)

Now, back to real-time stuff and device drivers for a while...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I hope something GOOD
                                  at               came in the mail today so
                               visi.com            I have a REASON to live!!


From a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com  Sat Mar  9 18:46:49 2002
From: a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com (a.clarke11)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:46:49 +0000
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news>
Message-ID: <3C8A9EE8.4E32CE5B@pop.ntlworld.com>

Hi,

I think it's a bug intrinsic to the round function: I use a Mac, and I
tried differnt arguments for round. Where the decimal ends in nine, in
whatever decimal place I tried, the answer is a recurrent decimal,
usually nine but sometimes zero.
Has it been reported??

Tony

You wrote:

the round() function will sometimes return a predictable result, as
in:

round(45.67891, 2)
>>> 45.68

but sometimes it will return something like:

round(56.78923, 2)
>>> 56.789999999999999

2.1 and 2.2 both behave this way on two different (Windows) computers.
What's going on here?

Bruce Robbins



From dominikush at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 08:34:35 2002
From: dominikush at yahoo.com (dominikush)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:34:35 -0000
Subject: Library for wmf/emf to png conversion?
Message-ID: <a6st9b+10loe@eGroups.com>

Hi,

does anybody know of a python library that enables
conversion from a

   (Enhanced) Windows Metafile 

to

   png

???

Regards,

Dominikus





From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Mar  1 06:28:42 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:28:42 GMT
Subject: Import-Hook and subclassed file objects
Message-ID: <3c7f65c2.357716562@news.isar.de>

I want to create an import hook that reads data from encrypted files.
To redirect the import hook, I do this:

----------- (snip here) -------------

# redirect import hook
old_import_func = __import__

def my_import_func(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None):
    global old_import_func
    
    if name[:10] == "encrypted.":

        # todo: load encrypted module
        return imp.load_module(name, file, '',
('.dat','rb',imp.PY_SOURCE)) 

    # use original code    
    return old_import_func( name, globals, locals, fromlist )

__builtins__.__import__ = my_import_func

import encrypted.test

----------- (snip here) -------------

(Of course, I'll use lambda for that in the final version ;)

Anyway, I have two problems with that. imp.load_module expects a file
object. But, Problem #1, the file object cannot be a subclassed
"file-type" class. If I define my own file class, I get an error
bad/closed file object. Looking at the PythonCore source, I find that
the C runtime uses the raw FILE* and not abstract PyFile functions.
See function "imp_load_module" in "Python\Import.c": converts
Py-File-Object to raw FILE* and then uses that further on. 

I think I'll have a more deeper look at the python sources and see if
I can add PyFileObject-style access. 

Problem #2, how do I subclass files? I try this:

----------- (snip here) -------------

class my_file_class(file):

    def read(self,size):
        # todo: add read implementation

----------- (snip here) -------------

the problem is - where to I subclass a file returned from open()?
open() always returns the builtin file class. Attempting to do this

----------- (snip here) -------------

raw_file = open(...)
my_file = my_file_class()
raw_file.read = my_file.read

----------- (snip here) -------------

I'll get an error that read is a read-only method.







From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Sat Mar 16 17:40:35 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:40:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <m3d6y41e74.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1016327435.513664@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Martin v. Loewis (martin at v.loewis.de) wrote:
: In any case, the common understanding is that Python does not really
: support threads on HP-UX, and probably never will unless some HP-UX
: user who understands all the issues provides patches.

Still, I've been using threads with HP-UX 10.2 and Python 1.5.2 for months
now.  (Maybe I haven't stressed it.)  Also, "make test" passed cleanly with
HP-UX 11 and Python 2.2.  It seems to be the combination of HP-UX 10.2 and
Python 2.2 that is causing trouble.


Greg


From krissepu at vip.fi  Sat Mar 23 13:54:36 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:54:36 +0200
Subject: Replacing excel: but with what ?
Message-ID: <3C9CCF6C.F1099089@vip.fi>

Does anybody have a recommendation of what GUI to use in Windows to
build
an spreadsheet view of a dictionary. Application should support
+, - , * and division -operations between cells, columns and rows.
The size of the grid would be at maximum 2000 rows x 2000 cells.

I am plotting values to 2D -grid and giving string replacements for
individual cells.
One row consists of values in a file. Column -values are an union of
all parameters found from all files. I would like to copy values
from a selected cell to all rows. Grid should also support row
and column-wise sorts.

I can allready create and start an Excel -sheet after parsing the file
contents
with re-execs. I am using WxPython for the toolbar, but sticking with
Excel worries me. Plus I do not have a use for all of its features.

WxWindows has a grid, but does anybody have experience of its stability
?
I have managed to crash its demo that comes with WxPython...

-pekka-



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar  6 22:37:19 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:37:19 +1300
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015461014.32511.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86E06F.670AFB4E@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> Will the syntax not work for
> instances of a subclass of int (now possible in Python 2.2), for example?

Subclasses should work too, I think.

> Or is it the intention that the construct is *not* limited strictly to the
> Python builtin classes "int" and "long"?  Will it work for any class that
> defines __lt__, __lg__, __gt__, __ge__, __add__, and __radd__ methods, for
> example?

No, I don't think so. It won't be possible to implement it
by just starting with the lower bound and repeatedly adding
1 or taking its successor or something. 

Firstly, the values bound to the index variable are
always *integers* (just like range() et al always
return sequences of integers). We're *not* intending
that, e.g. you should be able to use mxDateTime
objects for the bounds and get a range of times
one second apart or something!

Secondly, if the bounds are floats, the correct place 
to start is ceil(lowbound), not lowbound itself, or 
even int(lowbound).

So, floats will have to be treated as a special case,
and if we're having special cases, it would be better to
have *only* special cases -- i.e. restrict it to types
that we'res sure we know enough about to do the right
thing with. That means ints, longints and floats.

In any case, you're right that the PEP needs to nail
things down better in this area.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From mal at lemburg.com  Wed Mar  6 06:20:05 2002
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:20:05 +0100
Subject: [DB-SIG] Passing Unicode strings to Database
References: <77188782494.20020306181117@tomsk.net>
Message-ID: <3C85FB65.546871F5@lemburg.com>

Mikhail Astafiev wrote:
> 
> [Env: Win2k, Python 1.5.2]
> 
> Hi people!
> 
> I have a string in Japanese encoded in UTF8. I need to put it into
> database in Unicode form.
> 
> import dbi, odbc
> o=odbc.odbc(self.ODBC_name+"/"+self.ODBC_sql_username+"/"+self.ODBC_sql_password)
> c=o.cursor()
> runes = UTF82Runes(string.replace(self.pr_table[row]["description"],"'","''"))
> operator="""INSERT INTO %s VALUES('%s','%s');"""%(self.ODBC_table,
>    int(self.pr_table[row]["pr_no"]),
>    runes.tostring())
> c.execute(operator)    # update database
> 
> I'm getting the following error trace:
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\server.py", line 34, in ?
>     PR.sync_all()
>   File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\PRML\code\prml.py", line 2837, in sync_all
>     self.__sync_with_sql__(i)
>   File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\PRML\code\prml.py", line 2797, in __sync_with_sql__
>     c.execute(operator)    # update database
> TypeError: argument 1: expected string without null bytes, string found
> 
> runes is array.array('H') containing Unicode string.
> 
> Database string field has "ntext" type. How can I overcome this
> problem?

Use mxODBC ? It has Unicode support builtin. Whether your ODBC driver
has is a different question, though.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH
______________________________________________________________________
Company & Consulting:                           http://www.egenix.com/
Python Software:                   http://www.egenix.com/files/python/



From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Thu Mar  7 07:37:26 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:37:26 -0700
Subject: Code Bash!!! (CacheDictionary)
References: <mailman.1015462643.3423.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a67mvd$kai$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry:
>*) maxlength=1000, I belive this variable is poorly named.  A dictionary
>is not 10 items long, it contains 10 items.  Something like maxitems
>or maxcount.

>>> d = {"a": "b", "c": "d"}
>>> len(d)
2
>>>

A dictionary *can* be written as having a length, although "maxlen"
would probably be more technically correct.  To me, "maxcount" reminds
me of the "count" method of string, so I would ask "count of what?"

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From richard at stockcontrol.net  Wed Mar 13 08:22:25 2002
From: richard at stockcontrol.net (Richard Walkington)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 05:22:25 -0800
Subject: python -c cmd bug?
References: <e7e4eac4.0203122354.6fdf3324@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2144d9df.0203130522.15ede578@posting.google.com>

erik.wilsher at iname.com (erik_w) wrote 
> When I do 
> >python -c "import sys;print sys.argv"
> ['-c']
> 
> (Python 2.1.2 on NT4)
> 
> Is this the right behaviour?  I would expect that the -c was an option
> to the python interpreter, not to my script.

Yup, it is correct. To quote the python tutorual:

"When known to the interpreter, the script name and additional
arguments thereafter are passed to the script in the variable
sys.argv, which is a list of strings. Its length is at least one; when
no script and no arguments are given, sys.argv[0] is an empty string.
When the script name is given as '-' (meaning standard input),
sys.argv[0] is set to '-'. When -c command is used, sys.argv[0] is set
to '-c'. Options found after -c command are not consumed by the Python
interpreter's option processing but left in sys.argv for the command
to handle. "

See http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node4.html#SECTION004100000000000000000

Regards
Richard Walkington


From zlu at extremenetworks.com  Tue Mar 12 18:47:10 2002
From: zlu at extremenetworks.com (Zihong Lu)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 15:47:10 -0800
Subject: is time.sleep a thread safe function?
Message-ID: <c775a687.0203121547.396ba8a8@posting.google.com>

Can someone please tell me the answer?  

Recently, we have seen some weird behaviors in our python application
in Solaris 2.6, 2.7,and 2.8 platform.  The application is a web based
server, that uses threads heavily.  It runs fine in Linux and win32
platforms, but in Solaris, it stopped accepting after ran for couple
of hours.  One of our guesses is that the time.sleep() used through
out our application is not thread safe.  Can any one please help us
eliminate/confirm this factor?  Thanks.


-Zihong


From neal at metaslash.com  Thu Mar 21 17:27:26 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:27:26 -0500
Subject: TKinter Question
References: <mailman.1016747794.28702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A5E4E.763FA400@metaslash.com>

> Paul Sage wrote:
> 
> Hi all.  I am new to the list; the impetus for my signing up is a roadblock.  J
> 
> I am currently working with a quick and dirty little App for learning Python.  I am using Tkinter because the app
> really needs a GUI.
> 
> Global variables within the module:
> 
> pointsAvailable = 5
> 
> currentPointsToSpend = "Current Points left to spend: %s"%pointsAvailable
> 
> Inside the class definition of an object that is the GUI window:
> 
>         self.pointsLeftToSpend = Label(root, relief = RIDGE, borderwidth = 1,
> 
>                                        anchor = N, justify=CENTER,
> 
>                                        textvariable = currentPointsToSpend).pack()
> 
> My problem is with textvariable.  No matter what I seem to do, it just won??t show up.  Is this because it falls out
> of scope somehow?  

No, textvariable needs to be a Tcl/Tk 'textvariable', ie, StringVar.
Try this:

	currentPointsToSpend = StringVar()
	currentPointsToSpend.set("Current Points ... %s"%pointsAvailable)

Neal


From kare at speech.kth.se  Fri Mar 15 06:05:22 2002
From: kare at speech.kth.se (Kare Sjolander)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:05:22 +0100
Subject: Snack mod for python
References: <a5us1b$ha8$1@testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Message-ID: <3C91D572.76D851B9@speech.kth.se>

Try specifying the device: .play(device='/dev/sound/dsp')

Kare

Russell Voutour wrote:

> Hi i'm using the Snack sound module for python and i've run into a problem and
> was wondering if anyone had ever used it before. It installed find but when i use
> the .play() method it tries to open my /dev/dsp and it gets a error because the
> device does not exists it's under dev/sound/dsp. i've looked in the tkConfig file
> and the tclConfig file and can't find anything any sugestions would be helpfull
> thanks
>
> Russ
>
> --



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 15 19:18:47 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 00:18:47 GMT
Subject: multiline raw input
References: <a2972632.0203151506.536e5f21@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6u317$gtl$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Mar 2002 15:06:50 -0800, les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander) wrote:

>Hi,
>i have a program that takes input from the command line
>however this input is multi-line and will have a lot of backslashes
>I tried using sys.stdin but it ignores the backslashes.
>i tried with raw_input but that only takes in the first line
>
>can some suggest a remedy?
>
>
>
>
>for example: 
>i would like to run my program as follows:
>
>>> myprog.py 
>Type in some input (type in '.' to end) :
>\sum_{i=1}^{n} \frac{\sqrt{2}}{\alpha} \infty
>\begin{itemize}
>\item this equation says that 
>\end{itemize}
>.
>
>
 >>> def rawlines(prompt, lineprompt=''):
 ...     lines = [raw_input(prompt+'\n'+lineprompt)]
 ...     while lines[-1:][:]!=['.']:
 ...         lines.append(raw_input(lineprompt))
 ...     return lines
 ...
 >>> lines = rawlines("Type in some input (type in '.' to end) :","=>")
 Type in some input (type in '.' to end) :
 =>\sum_{i=1}^{n} \frac{\sqrt{2}}{\alpha} \infty
 =>\begin{itemize}
 =>\item this equation says that
 =>\end{itemize}
 =>.
 >>> for line in lines: print line
 ...
 \sum_{i=1}^{n} \frac{\sqrt{2}}{\alpha} \infty
 \begin{itemize}
 \item this equation says that
 \end{itemize}
 .

Return lines[:-1] if you don't want the ending dot line back.

I passed a line prompt of '=>', but you can let it default to ''
to get what you specified. OTOH, you might want to consider
something other than '' as the line prompt, to make it clear
that it's waiting for input.

Regards,
Bengt Richter




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 14:30:19 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 14:30:19 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017531239.13331.python-list@python.org> <a871lv$a3i$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <3CA75EFB.A79F6D61@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <a87o4b$1q8$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3CA75EFB.A79F6D61 at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Ralph Corderoy wrote:
>>
>> What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
>> elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of Boolean
>> above.
>
>But you already have precisely this:
>
>	from operator import truth

13. There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From cgale1 at cox.net  Sat Mar 23 02:10:54 2002
From: cgale1 at cox.net (Van Gale)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:10:54 GMT
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
References: <mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net>

"Geoffrey Talvola" <gtalvola at nameconnector.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list at python.org...
> Gordon McMillan wrote:
> >
> > Your client does a shutdown(1) after sending some data.
> > The shutdown(1) causes the server to fall out of the
> > receive loop. It then sleeps for however long specified,
> > sends some data and closes the socket.
> >
> > In other words, the behavior is exactly what you asked
> > for, and Windows' socket implementation has nothing to
> > do with it.

Geoff,

I'm a little late in this conversation so haven't read all the replies, and
I'm not really a Windows programmer (IANAWP?), but I'll try to contribute
anyway :)

I think Gordan is right, given the following information:

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/sql/kb/q105/7/94.txt

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q149532

Do a "Find on this page" for MSL at
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/TechNet/itsolutio
ns/network/deploy/depovg/tcpip2k.asp

So, I'm guessing what's happening is the shutdown(1) is causing the server
to stop responding to keepalives after 4 minutes.  I can't say off the top
of my head whether or not this is buggy behaviour.

Try setting TcpTimedWaitDelay in the registry to 300 and see if the client
connection breaks at the 5 minute mark.  Don't forget the obligatory Windows
reboot!

If this isn't the problem I'll just place the blame on not having an NT/2k
box for testing before posting :)

--
Van Gale





From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar  4 20:04:12 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:04:12 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical
 computation?
In-Reply-To: <slrna875ul.vdr.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEFIOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> For the rest of it, it looks like the "1e-200**2 raises OverflowError"
>> glitch is unique to platforms using glibc.

[Jon Ribbens]
> No, it happens on OpenBSD 2.7 also.
>
> Python 2.2 (#2, Feb  3 2002, 18:27:17)
> [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on openbsd2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> 1e-200**2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: (34, 'Result too large')

I don't understand your "no":  the output shows that Python was built using
GCC 2.95.2, yet you're claiming this does *not* use glibc?  gcc and glibc go
together like Guido and Van Rossum <wink>.




From scott2237 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 21:09:40 2002
From: scott2237 at yahoo.com (googlePoster)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:09:40 GMT
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
References: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015972703.8850.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Exyj8.11281$f33.2556230824@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

in the interest of full disclosure, I should have said
since I am using python as a gvim scripting tool I
must import the gvim variable, colors_name, before
I can work with it

the following

try:
   curr_color = vim.eval("colors_name")
except NameError:
   curr_color = "none"
   print "colors_name does not exist"
else:
   print "colorscheme: %s" % curr_color

gets the name of the colorscheme just fine when it's
defined, but when not, yields

E121: Undefined variable: colors_name
E15: Invalid expression: colors_name
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "testMe.py", line 36, in ?
    curr_color = vim.eval("colors_name")
vim.error: invalid expression


grrrrrrrr


"Cliff Wells" <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015972703.8850.python-list at python.org...
> On 12 Mar 2002 13:52:01 -0800
> googlePoster wrote:
>
> > if I want to know if a variable exists before
> > testing it, what do I do?
>
> How about
>
> try:
>    colors_name
> except NameError:
>    print "it doesn't exist"
> else:
>    print "it exists"
>
> --
> Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
> Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
> (503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
>




From jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au  Tue Mar 19 20:53:06 2002
From: jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au (Jamie Carl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:53:06 GMT
Subject: Serial Ports
References: <3c96c220$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au> <slrna9f8rk.b4.dietmar@bronko.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <3c97eb64$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

Excellent..  Done..  works great (kinda)  :-)

Exactly what I was after.

J

"Dietmar Lang" <dietmar at bronko.fh-wedel.de> wrote in message
news:slrna9f8rk.b4.dietmar at bronko.fh-wedel.de...
> Hi!
>
> Jamie Carl wrote:
> >     I'm still fairly new to Python so forgive me.  I'm hoping someone
can
> > point in the right direction regarding how I would go about accessing a
> > serial com port from Python.  I'd like to do it mainly under Linux, but
> > hopefully it will work under windows aswell.
> >
> > Is it possible?  Can someone point me to some documentation or code
samples?
>
> Check out the Universal Serial Port Python Library:
>
> http://balder.prohosting.com/ibarona/en/python/uspp/uspp_en.html
>
> Hoping this helps,
>
> Dietmar
>
> --
> I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar 18 15:43:32 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:43:32 -0800
Subject: PIL Headaches: Advice Needed
References: <4378fa6f.0203161652.7f28e23b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C965173.6DA78CDF@ccvcorp.com>


Marc wrote:

> I have gone thru all the tutorials and read me's I can find, and I
> still can't get PIL to work for me. At no point has it ever been able
> to recognize any file that I try to open in all formats (.bmp, .jpg,
> .gif, etc).

What code are you using?  The following should work:

import PIL.Image
my_image = PIL.Image.Open("sample.jpg")

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From borcis at geneva-link.ch  Tue Mar  5 03:29:07 2002
From: borcis at geneva-link.ch (Boris^2)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:29:07 +0100
Subject: [ANN] PEP 279 version 1.5
References: <mailman.1015283779.6801.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8481D3.1000303@geneva-link.ch>


Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> PEP 279 -- Enhanced Generators has been updated:
> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0279.html
> 
> Additional comments are solicited before it is sent
> to Guido for pronouncement.



>>  By analogy, consider the quality improvement from GOSUB (which had
>>  no argument passing mechanism) to modern procedure calls (which can
>>  pass in arguments and return values).

I know it's rhetorical, but I find that the above implies too

much for the GOSUB. Elaborate scoping rules and parameter passing 
mechanisms existed in other languages (witness Lisp, Algol, Fortran, 
PL/1, Simula) as Basic was being inoculated to innocent victims. That 
shameful hack passing for a language doesn't deserve the status of 
ancestor achievement you imply for it. Leave that to Bill Gates.

Boris Borcic




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  1 06:34:10 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 03:34:10 -0800
Subject: Mod-python problem
References: <slrna7rdq5.2vf.bp@sam.localdomain> <f72dac0d.0202280734.77bfa545@posting.google.com> <slrna7ttd5.1j3.bp@sam.localdomain>
Message-ID: <f72dac0d.0203010334.2fd6be3a@posting.google.com>

bp at sam.localdomain (Bob Parnes) wrote in message 

> The only trouble is that I had forgotten about my httpd.conf file. The 
> relevant lines are:
> 
> <Directory /var/www/modPython/test>
>   AddHandler python-program .py
>   PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
> </Directory>
> 
> This was the reason I used main() instead of handler(); in the url window I 
> typed in "test.py/main" and got the table but no response from FieldStorage().

> Are publisher and FieldStorage() incompatible, or am I misusing them? Knowing 
> what I know now, I can probably get along without publisher, but I am 
> accustomed to placing several scripts in one directory.

Bob,

Sorry, I didn't realise you were using the Publisher handler,
otherwise I wouldn't have gone and rewritten your code to work with a
completely different paradigm. And I was wondering how you were
getting results with something that just didn't look like it could
work %-) D'oh! Silly me.

Warning: I don't use the publisher handler, so I haven't tested any of
the stuff below!

Looking at the publisher handler documentation, section 6.1.3:
Publisher handler: Form data

http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.6/doc-html/node74.html

which says: 

"In the process of matching arguments, the Publisher handler creates
an instance of FieldStorage class. A reference to this instance is
stored in an attribute form of the Request object.

Since a FieldStorage can only be instantiated once per request, one
must not attept to instantiate FieldStorage when using the Publisher
handler and should use Request.form instead."

So it would appear to me that you shouldn't be trying to instantiate
the util.FieldStorage() class at all. Instead, you should be referring
to the already extant req.form attribute. So your main function should
change from this

def main(req):
    formDict = util.FieldStorage(req)
    cl = clTest()
    return cl.cltest(req, formDict)

to this

def main(req):
    cl = clTest()
    return cl.cltest(req, req.form)

As mentioned, I haven't tested any of this!

Hope this helps,

Al.


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 11:08:09 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:08:09 +0000
Subject: Optimising list comparison
References: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>
Message-ID: <a6tut9$h5c$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Graham Ashton wrote:

> A friend of mine is using Python in a research project where he needs to
> compare each element of two vectors, such that comparing [a, b, c] and
> [d, e, f] would involve comparing a with d, b with e and c with f.
> 

Are your vectors 3-d only? If so, I assume you're worried about performance 
because you have *many* of them. The fastest (super-easy) way to do it is to 
shove them into two 3xN NumPy matrices and do the comparison there. You can 
then compare them and will get a _fast_ comparison done by Numeric, with all 
the necessary information for extracting the differing elements.

Just some thoughts,

f.


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:29:33 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:29:33 -0500
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
References: <mailman.1017027939.3632.python-list@python.org> <3C9EA59A.D3F76D2F@engcorp.com> <3C9F0F85.345200F2@spam.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <3C9FC0ED.EB34041C@engcorp.com>

Bj?rn Lindberg wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > By the way, how can Python code get "stuck"?  Is it a logic flaw,
> > or are you talking about the kind of "stuck" that used to happen,
> > in the "old days", when we were always writing code in languages
> > which would actually crash the computer?
> 
> Which language has ever been known to crash the computer? Perhaps you
> are referring to earlier MS operating systems, which were known to crash
> themselves?

I should perhaps have said "writing code in languages which allowed
us to crash the computer".  As in, pointers!  C, to be even briefer. ;-)

-Peter


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Mar 14 17:25:34 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:25:34 GMT
Subject: Disabling rexec for ActiveScripting in Local Intranet Zone?
References: <a6q3hf$2br$1@nixe.ISAR.net>
Message-ID: <3C912376.7020902@skippinet.com.au>

Gerson Kurz wrote:
> When you do Client-Side ActiveScripting in Python, you cannot create 
> win32com objects. If my understanding is correct, this is caused by rexec() 
> limiting what you can do, for security reasons. However, over Client-Side 
> Scripting languages such as JScript and VBScript allow you to create 
> ActiveX objects, if IEs security settings allow that. Is there some trick 
> to allow using ActiveX objects (if security is "properly" configured) for 
> the local zone?
> 
> The situation is this. I have a C++ written ActiveX object for scripting 
> webpages that controls some kind of hardware. I want to be able to write 
> test scripts in python, and not in Javascript. Test scripts that are run 
> from the command line work just fine, only IE scripts don't, because of  
> said limitations. Currently, I have to stick with Javascript for sample 
> codes, which is (not surprisingly) a PITA. 

I have no idea :)  I would expect that if IE has set security 
approriately, then Python would not operate under rexec at all - this is 
certainly what happens for WScript and ASP.

What version of win32all?

Mark.



From joonas at olen.to  Sat Mar  2 05:25:41 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 02:25:41 -0800
Subject: (Hopefully) simple IDLE question
References: <slWf8.19790$V15.3283629@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <11aed8f9.0203020225.4d8b7922@posting.google.com>

"Seth Jones" <sjones16 at rochester.rr.com> wrote in message news:<slWf8.19790$V15.3283629 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> Is there any way to set the current working directory for a file being used
> in IDLE? I simply want to open a file that is in the same directory as my
> script, which I've opened into the
> idle window, and I don't want to hard-code the full path of the file.
> Failing that, is there any alternative in Windows 95 to the normal command
> line? I ask, since the reason I'm using IDLE in the first place is to avoid
> calling my script from the horribly unsatisfying DOS prompt. Failing even
> that, is there a better way to get error output from a .pyw file than to
> catch all exceptions and write them to a file?
> 
> A google search did lead me to an old mailing-list post about adding the
> option for setting
> current directories in IDLE, but apparently that hasn't been done yet.
> 
> 
> I hope someone can convey some wisdom to this poor soul who's still stuck on
> win95.
> Thanks in advance for any advice.

IDLEfork should handle the working directory correctly.

See http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/


From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Mon Mar  4 09:59:32 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:59:32 +0100
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at> <3C837DD1.2007DFA0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C838BD4.5A5D9298@kfunigraz.ac.at>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
 
> As far as absolute time goes, don't use a tool for that.  Just
> run the program and ask yourself "was that fast enough for my
> needs?".  If your program runs once a day, even 70 sec is fast
> enough.  If you run it every thirty seconds, I guess you have
> to go with the Clean version after all. :-)

Please: Do not use Clean! It took me (yesterday) 6 hours to re-use my
Clean version (only some minor changes due to some different
parameters), which I wrote last summer. The type-system and arrays are a
horror (it is nearly impossible to work with). Lists are okay; but
arrays in Clean will put some pearls on your forehead

Clean is very unflexible. 

Btw. I had expected it. I got some improved Lisp version (1/4 of my code
and 30% faster). I am not sure whether it is posted to comp.lang.python;
if not I can mail it (with the proper reference to the master which
wrote it) to you (drop me a note).

Normaly, I do not have any problems with verbose code. Okay, my Lisp
(and Clean) code does some extra work (for example: counting the lines
in a file for creating the array) which would be not necessary. You can
work with lists and copy them to an array (which my Python function --
honestly: by accident -- does).

I felt for and believed what computer scientists are preaching: pure
functional programming will improve your code and will let you produce
re-usable code. But after Clean I am not sure whether I am only just too
simple minded to grasp their concepts. 


S. Gonzi


From camh at zip.com.au  Mon Mar 11 19:14:20 2002
From: camh at zip.com.au (Cameron Hutchison)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:14:20 +1100
Subject: Setting UNIX environment with a Python script
References: <3C8D143A.17963385@all.com> <B59j8.19604$N7.4435538@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649@zip.com.au>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:13:05 +1100, Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <3C8D143A.17963385 at all.com>, Nom de Plume wrote:
> 
>> The only step left is sourcing the ora_env.[name] file from within
>> Python in a way such that the environment of the parent shell is
>> modified.  Anyone have any ideas?  I have tried:
> 
> It is not possible under Unix to modify the environment of your parent
> process.  You can only modify your own environment and then export that
> environment to your children.

What you need to do instead is have your python program print on stdout
the name of the ora_env file to source. Then you invoke your python
script from your shell login script like this (bourne style shell
assumed):

eval "source ora_env.`get_ora_name`"

where get_ora_name is your python script.

If you're not familiar with shell scripting, look up command substitution
or backquote substitution in the manpage for how this works.

[To be honest, I can't remember if 'source' is bourne shell or a
bash-ism. You can always use the . command, but that doesn't look
as clear and may have been harder to explain]


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Mar  5 18:04:02 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:04:02 -0800
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
In-Reply-To: <3C852B7E.2AD1FD64@ccvcorp.com>
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203040130.17140530@posting.google.com> <a611bl$44i$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203042338.141afe8b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015315879.19686.python-list@python.org> <3C852B7E.2AD1FD64@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020305230402.GD11517@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Jeff Shannon (jeff at ccvcorp.com):
> > I think that I have seen notables in the python community (I would
> > name names, but I don't have quotes to reference) have indicated
> > regret at the introduction of map() and friends into the language.
> > They end up being appropriate only very, very rarely.
> >
> > The lambda construct doesn't suffer from quite the same stigma, though
> > I think some feel that it's overused, and to bad effect.

I think Carel has the right of it, actually. Lots of supporting
evidence for distate for map() and friends:

Thomas Wouters calling them "evil" (in quotes):
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-August/008266.html

Tim Peters defending use of lambda & map interactively (and quoting
from Guido, who regrets them all):
    http://sunsite.bilkent.edu.tr/pub/languages/pub/tim_one/000177.html

Tim making special exception for lambda:
    http://sunsite.bilkent.edu.tr/pub/languages/pub/tim_one/000179.html

Tim admitting (4 yrs later) that lambda was maybe not so good:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=000701bd7caf%24c27f8520%2456472399%40tim

And Guido's pronouncement of disgrace upon the constructs in 1994:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9405270809.AA02474%3Dguido%40voorn.cwi.nl


So now there's some citational evidence. If they haven't changed their
minds since, it looks like the whole lot be damned.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts                <geoff at gerrietts net> 
"I have read your book and much like it." --Moses Hadas



From nas at python.ca  Mon Mar 25 18:54:30 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:54:30 -0800
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEJLOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>; from tim.one@comcast.net on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 03:15:23PM -0500
References: <20020325113323.A26319@glacier.arctrix.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEJLOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020325155430.A27495@glacier.arctrix.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> there's generally no reason to suppose that len(iterable) wouldn't be
> destructive

Good point.

  Neil

PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code



From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 17:15:38 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:15:38 -0800
Subject: wxProgressDialog wonky under Win32
In-Reply-To: <qn7j8.19386$N7.4421525@ruti.visi.com>
References: <gc6j8.19334$N7.4409910@ruti.visi.com>
	<qn7j8.19386$N7.4421525@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20020311141538.525b70f6.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:15:34 GMT
Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> According to one of the wx mailing list archives, this is a
> known bug in the MSW port of wxWindows (the "size" value of a
> gauge is treated as a 16-bit number).  It's been fixed, but
> it's still available only from CVS.

The usual trick I use to get around this is to use a gauge with a max of
100 and then update it with the percentage done (n/max) rather than the
number of items done (n).  This can also help performance as you can avoid
updating the gauge as often if you have a large number of items to process.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Mar 29 16:22:28 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 13:22:28 -0800
Subject: number of lines in a file
References: <b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203291322.39315d3b@posting.google.com>

"Joseph Youssef" <leader730 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465 at weber.videotron.net>...
> hello, I am nwe to Python and I'm trying to write this script but I need 
> it to check how many lines is in the file and I don't know how so I'm 
> hoping someone could tell me.
> 

Welcome to Python. 

Others have suggested approaches which attempt to read the whole file
into memory, but may succeed very slowly or not at all in the event
that you have files that are larger than your machine's physical
memory; here's a slightly more robust approach:

num_lines = 0
f = file('path_and_file_name')
for line in f:
    num_lines += 1
f.close()

HTH,
John


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 12:31:15 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:31:15 +0000
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>
Message-ID: <37j6auohv35hg3kfol3m5hnrelvd4i4vdk@4ax.com>

I like it.

You *have* to allow variables in the match list, however, plus objects
that evaluate to a suitable value or sequence of values. There's no
reason why the compiler couldn't detect and optimise the case where
only constants are used.

I prefer 'else' to 'any' - a lot. I makes more sense and doesn't need
a new keyword.

As for the name, 'match'? Given that it would cause problems with the
're' module, how about a name that is invalid syntax at the moment.
What about names with spaces? 'match on'? 'switch on'? 'select from'?
It would give the syntax analyser something to think about but
wouldn't break any code. Such a scheme would allow all sorts of safe
expansions.

Alternatively, capitalise Java-style: 'matchOn' or 'switchOn'

I know I'm supposed to ignore it but I'd also like to support the
addition of UNTIL and UNLESS as alternatives for WHILE NOT and IF NOT.
I whince every time I have to reverse the logic of a test just to suit
the restrictive syntax of the langage.

--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 31 14:10:40 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:10:40 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list@python.org> <a87ljh$ofu$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA75F2F.198772EB@alcyone.com>

Aahz wrote:

> But what do you think of changing bool() to truth()?

In the new type unification scheme, bool seems a much better name than
truth.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From phlip_cpp at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 19:31:30 2002
From: phlip_cpp at yahoo.com (Phlip)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 16:31:30 -0800
Subject: Where is an unbroke version of PyMagick?
Message-ID: <63604d2.0203261631.7731b2e7@posting.google.com>

Hypo Nt:

The version here says it's broken, and does not explain why:

	http://bel-epa.com/pyapache/Python/PyMagick/

When I build it, it complains about serious errors regarding its
opinion of the API found in ImageMagick-devel-5.3.3-5mdk.i586.rpm.

Careful consideration of the matter reveals the possibility that the
library is broken because it's from last year and that ImageMagick is
recent.

I don't want to do Magick to my Images thru C or C++.

Any tips?

-- 
  Phlip


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 09:48:28 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:48:28 +0000
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:02:20 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Jim Dennis wrote:
>> 
>>  The core loop is something like:
>> 
>>         freq = {}
>>         for line in file:
>>                 for word in line.split():
>>                         if word in freq:        freq[word] += 1
>>                         else:                           freq[word] = 1
>> 
>>  (assuming Python2.2 for file interation and dictionary membership
>>  support using "in."  I *really* like those 2.2 features!  They make
>>  my psuedo-code so executable!)
>
>Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
>
>would probably be faster, and it's a little simpler I think,
>although I could see an argument that it's less readable.
>Also doesn't depend on 2.2.

IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works 
correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.

IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From sjoerd at acm.org  Fri Mar 15 12:03:08 2002
From: sjoerd at acm.org (Sjoerd Mullender)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:03:08 +0100
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>
	 <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]>
Message-ID: <3C92294C.19BCF936@acm.org>

When select tells you there is something available to read, it doesn't mean
there is a whole line available to read!  It is very well possible that there
is only one character available, but readline may want to read (a lot) more
than that.

Rich Cook wrote:
> 
> At 11:09 PM -0600 3/14/02, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >     >>    selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
> >     >>    (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, selectables)
> >     ...
> >
> >     >> It blocks forever waiting for theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
> >     >> to return.  I expect it to block waiting for select.select(); that
> >     >> would not be a problem.  The problem is that select is claiming
> >     >> there's stuff to be read, then when I try to read it, it's not there!
> >     >> How can that be?
> >
> >Based upon the attribute names you are using, I suspect you instantiated
> >os.Popen3 to create theProcess.  These are file objects, not sockets.  I
> >believe select only blocks on sockets.  See the comments about asynchronous
> >file i/o near the bottom of asyncore.py.
> 
> I don't really need select to block.  I just want it to be accurate.
> If it returns a file object in the list of things which are
> available, why should then readline() block on it?
> --
> 
> -Sincerely, Rich Cook 925-784-3077
> *******************************************************************
> Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government
> of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
>          Thomas Jefferson
> *******************************************************************
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From gimbo at ftech.net  Thu Mar  7 11:11:33 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:11:33 +0000
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B49@SRM201002>
References: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B49@SRM201002>
Message-ID: <20020307161133.GD489@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:19:45AM -0600, Gustavo Cordova wrote:

> But, what about identical twins, who speak their own language
> well before they start speaking their parents? Aren't they
> communicating with their peer(s)?

It's not just twins - older children sometimes act as "interpreters"
for their younger siblings.

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From p.magwene at snet.net  Fri Mar 15 22:29:23 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 03:29:23 GMT
Subject: Shot in the Dark: Minimum-weight perfect matching algorithm
References: <pan.2002.03.15.19.52.32.366019.81993@snet.net> <eppstein-0100AC.18350415032002@news.service.uci.edu> <pan.2002.03.15.22.14.02.809294.18618@snet.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.15.22.29.23.638723.41886@snet.net>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:14:03 -0500, Paul Magwene wrote:


> Some more digging did turn up this neat little Java applet:
> 
> http://www.math.sfu.ca/~goddyn/Courseware/Visual_Matching.html
> 
> with source code in the same directory.  I may try and translate that to
> something Pythonic - it's definitely more inviting than the Blossum4
> code.


Well, that's of limited use - it only works for points in the plane.
Back to the drawing board....

--Paul


From bass at slinkp.com  Thu Mar  7 20:34:53 2002
From: bass at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 17:34:53 -0800
Subject: [OT] range() for unix shell
References: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015542375.17702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2adab837.0203071734.1a3bee80@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015542375.17702.python-list at python.org>...
> Paul> Today, struck by the similarity between sh and python's for loops,
>     Paul> and facing an example which required us to generate a range of
>     Paul> numbers from boundary parameters, I wrote a sh range function. It
>     Paul> works just like python's range() function (allowing for syntactic
>     Paul> differences).
> 
> Why stoop to sh?  Here's a range command I've used for years written in
> Python. ;-)

(snip)

Well, of course, that's the quickest way to do it if you know you'll always
have python. Which is likely to be true EXCEPT when booting from an emergency
floppy... precisely the time I seem to need the largest number of handy little
tools...

And as Neil pointed out, GNU seq does pretty much the same thing
(with a totally different interface). Good to know about that one.
But again, I'm not likely to use 16k of rescue floppy space for seq.

Thanks for the comments...

--PW


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 11:25:13 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:25:13 +0000
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <u94n0p932q6j12@news.supernews.com> <a6trfp$f65$2@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1016231129.5794.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6tvt9$hfd$2@peabody.colorado.edu>

On Friday 15 March 2002 22:23, you wrote:
> [Fernando P?rez wrote]
>
> > John Roth wrote:
> > > Putting something into the start menu is dead easy. Just put a
> > > link to the appropriate file into "c:Windows/Start Menu/Programs"
> > > Note the blank, and watch your capitalization. Windows is
> > > flaky about capitalization.
> >
> > This is only for win9x. Win2k/xp have per-user Start Menu dirs, and
> > their location must be retrieved from the registry (Def. is
> > C:\documents and settings\user-name\Start Menu, but it can vary). So to
> > have this be reliable, there's no way around diving into the pleasures
> > of the registry.
>
> Not true. There is a win32api call to get these directories. Mind you,
> that requires you to have the PyWin32 extensions installed.
>

[snipped]

Ah, thanks for the info. I assume those calls are basically wrappers for 
clean access to those registry keys which ultimately hold the information, 
but it's definitely better to read the registry via an api than by mucking 
with it directly.

The bulk of what I had in mind (but didn't clearly express :) remains: you 
can't just assume C:\Windows\Start Menu, you need to get the actual value 
of that directory in some form (and your api solution is much better than 
my registry access).

Cheers,

f.


From wlsonna at attglobal.net  Thu Mar 14 19:46:24 2002
From: wlsonna at attglobal.net (William Sonna)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 00:46:24 GMT
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>
Message-ID: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-mhhtKwE8MMds@localhost>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:26:01, Antonis C Koutalos <ack at ee.ed.ac.uk> 
wrote:

> 
> Hi there,
>  I would greatly appreciate information about a good book on python. I
> have been programming C for a few years, but I know next to nothing about
> python. Therefore, I would appreciate a book that describes the basics of
> python as well as the more advanced features of the language.
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> -A.
> 

The Quick Python Book by Harms/McDonald is an excellent book if you 
want to get up to speed in a hurry.

The best way I can think of to describe it is as a "Cliff Notes" for 
Python.  Very terse and well-organized (and consequently VERY easy to 
browse) - just like Python itself.  The book has saved me many, many 
hours.

It focuses primarily on the base language - you won't find much about 
the more advanced packages, other than a terse, well-organized summary
of several of them (and information about where to get more info).

If there was a "Quick Java Book" or a "Quick C++ Book" I'd buy them in
a heartbeat.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 14:03:42 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:03:42 -0800
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
References: <mailman.1017132640.22480.python-list@python.org> <a7pm9i$86t$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3CA0C60E.F1C6F707@ccvcorp.com>


Anton Vredegoor wrote:

> >because I would like to write something like:
> >
> >db=CRdb()
> >for entry in db:
> >       print entry
>
> .......
> class CRdb:
>
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__fieldsName= []
>         self.__keyname= []
>         self.__records   = ['first','secnd','third']
>         self.__iRecord= 0
>
>     def __getitem__(self,i):
>         return self.__records[i]
>

Of course, if you're going this route, it's probably best to provide a
__len__() method as well, and to deal with slices...   Another
alternative would be to derive your class from UserList.UserList -- this
will "automagically" handle list-like behavior (except that your
__records attribute will now be called data).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Mar 24 17:39:48 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 00:39:48 +0200
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org> <kuadsx2958.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3@engcorp.com> <ku663l2598.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <3C9E2BA1.E500BE4A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ku1ye9d1zf.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3C9E2BA1.E500BE4A at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen
<peter at engcorp.com> writes:

| I don't get that behaviour.  On my machine, with Python 2.2, for 
| all intents and purposes the memory allocated stays constant.
| Did I overlook something?

hard to say. how did you measure it?

with the following program..

  import os
  
  a = [0] * 1000000
  if 0:
      b = 1
      for i in xrange(len(a)): a[i] = b*51
  else:
      b = 2
      for i in xrange(len(a)): a[i] = b*51
  os.system("ps u %d" % os.getpid())

i get this:

USER       PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ  RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
erno      2664 41.3  3.2 39680 33680 pts/25  S    00:37   0:05 python paa.py

changing the "if 0" to "if 1" gets me

USER       PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ  RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
erno      2691 44.2  0.9 15712 9712 pts/25   S    00:37   0:05 python paa.py

the difference is about 24 megabytes, so i'd say an integer object
takes up 24 bytes on this platform.

  -- erno


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Mar  4 13:50:49 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:50:49 -0500
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
In-Reply-To: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <JI8g8kKkXIaR092yn@gnosis.cx>                

|...text search engine that works with Python?  What I'm looking for
|specifically is something that will compress the text and still allow
|searches and retrievals that can be exact matches or proximity based.
|The text I want to compress and search is huge (70 megs) and should
|compress down to half, not including any index files that might be
|required by the search engine.

My indexer.py modules does this (mostly).  I wrote an articles
discussing the module at:

    http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_15.txt

I have now incorporated it into a package at:

    http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_XML_Utils-0.9.tar.gz

The indexer is sort of an ugly duckling in there, since it doesn't have
anything to do with XML, per se.  But xml_indexer.py uses indexer.py for
support, so I bundled things this way.

Anyway, indexer does not allow proximity searches, but does allow
searches for multiple words that occur in the same documents.  The
indexes are quite reasonable sized, and the indexer will operate on
gzip'd files happily (it wouldn't be difficult to add support for zip,
bzip2, etc).  The module itself doesn't perform compressions, but that's
what 'gzip' is for.

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s




From brueckd at tbye.com  Fri Mar 15 16:08:03 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:08:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0203150820.6362868@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203151305440.21791-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 15 Mar 2002, Paul Boddie wrote:

> > This precisely what I'm looking for.  As someone else pointed out in
> > another post, urllib should have this but, sadly, does not.
>
> The module I mentioned [1] doesn't attempt to handle more
> sophisticated URL types, such as...
>
>   http://user at somesite/somepath
>
> Indeed, a more generic URL parser really needs to be put into the
> standard library whilst retaining the simplicity that one tends to see
> in other "path" manipulation APIs (eg. os.path) - the world doesn't
> need another overcomplicated Java-like API to do the simplest of
> things. I wonder if mxURL might at least provide inspiration.

Rather than add a new module, why not add more functionality to the
urlparse module in the standard distribution? (what functionality do you
need beyond what's already there, anyway?)

-Dave




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 15 20:45:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 01:45:42 GMT
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6u846$qb7$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Mar 2002 17:24:33 -0800, surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub) wrote:

>Hi,
>I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
>speed.I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
>The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
>supposed to be
>
>uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)
>
>However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
>
>uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
>how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..
>string.lstrip does not work either.
>
>what am i doing wrong?

It would be easier to say if you showed us what you are doing ;-)

Where are your uid's coming from in your program?
Assuming some function getuid() produces 'uid1' or 'uid2' etc
each time, and '' or None when there's no more,

#----< UNTESTED! >----------
uids = []
while 1:
    uid = getuid()
    if not uid: break
    uids.append(uid)
combined = ','.join(uids)
#---------------------------

should give you 'uid1,uid2,uid2' etc. bound to combined.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 21 19:03:23 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:03:23 -0500
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u9kssravjn3a43@news.supernews.com>

"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote in message
news:un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3 at 4ax.com...
> I can't believe I'm doing this this best way.
>
> I am debugging a large system written in Python with modules spread
> over 4 directories. I'm using PythonWin under Win2K to set-up the
> environment and run the code.
>
> Setting up the environment typically involves the following commands:
>
> import sys
> sys.path.append("x:\\whereever")
> from wibbleModule import wibble
> wibs = wibble(args)
>
> wibs.methods(args)
>
> <error...>
>
> At this point, I fix the error.
>
> Now, I haven't figured out a way of continueing past this point
> without quiting and starting from scratch because there appears to be
> no way to get Python to reload a module. The reload() function doesn't
> do it.
>
> I've tried stuff like this:
>
> del wibs
> reload(sys.modules['wibbleModule']
>
> but I still seem to have the old version loaded.
>
> I've also tried using PyCrust for this but it suffers from the same
> problems. I assume IDLE does too.
>
> How do others go about interactively debugging large Python OO-based
> systems?

I don't. I got bit by the XP bug a while back, and now I
write all unit tests in advance, using the 'unittest' module.
I keep the editor (PythonWin) open, save the module
I've just changed, and invoke a script at the command line
to run the current test set. Works like a charm, and has the
additional advantage that I don't have to worry about
breaking things with changes - the unit tests are persistant,
so they'll tell me.

I don't have to go into the debugger very much to figure
out a problem, so reloading the module from scratch
isn't a significant issue.

John Roth
>
> Thanks for any pointers.
> --
> Dale Strickland-Clark
> Riverhall Systems Ltd




From cthuang at vex.net  Wed Mar 27 19:45:03 2002
From: cthuang at vex.net (Chin Huang)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:45:03 GMT
Subject: win32 problem interacting with word97
References: <Xns91DE7E01D2955andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.103>
Message-ID: <jIto8.142$1l4.71733301@news.nnrp.ca>

In article <Xns91DE7E01D2955andrewdarwinwarscom at 62.253.162.103>,
Andrew Brown  <killspam at darwinwars.com> wrote:
>I am trying to convert a couple of hundred MS word 97  files to html, and 
>then reformat them into a template. 
>
>Mostly, this works, but there are some which contain accented letters, 
>and the Word html converter barfs on these in a peculiarly irritating 
>way: it puts up a dialogue box with a message saying 
>
>"This document contains characters that are not in the current language 
>encoding. To preserve them, choose cancel and select the appropriate 
>language encoding. For multilingual documents, use UTF-8."
>
>It is possible to press "OK" or "cancel" or any damn thing if you can see 
>the dialogue box; but my program can't see it, and goes on trying to get 
>word to process the next file until, after about 30 seconds python 
>crashes completely. Only then do I see the dialogue box which has caused 
>the trouble. 

Try setting the DisplayAlerts property of the Application object to 0.
Word will not display any dialog boxes.  It will choose the default
action and continue the operation.


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 18:06:59 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:06:59 -0600
Subject: [OT] range() for unix shell
In-Reply-To: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com>
References: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15495.62099.260328.51487@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> Today, struck by the similarity between sh and python's for loops,
    Paul> and facing an example which required us to generate a range of
    Paul> numbers from boundary parameters, I wrote a sh range function. It
    Paul> works just like python's range() function (allowing for syntactic
    Paul> differences).

Why stoop to sh?  Here's a range command I've used for years written in
Python. ;-)

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import sys, string

def usage():

    print """
usage:
        range high
        range high step
        range low high step

  In first case, low == 0 is implied
  If no step size is given, 1 is assumed
"""
    exit

low = 0
step = 1
if len(sys.argv) == 2:
    high = int(sys.argv[1])
elif len(sys.argv) == 3:
    high = int(sys.argv[1])
    step = int(sys.argv[2])
elif len(sys.argv) == 4:
    low = int(sys.argv[1])
    high = int(sys.argv[2])
    step = int(sys.argv[3])
else:
    usage

print string.join(map(str, range(low, high, step)))



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 29 08:00:13 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:00:13 -0500
Subject: Program termination problem
References: <ua6r509m5uradc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ua8p0sfjaqjn60@news.supernews.com>

"Garyr" <garyr at fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:ua6r509m5uradc at corp.supernews.com...
> I have a program that displays a Tkinter Text widget. I would like to
be
> able to place text in the window via the clipboard. I found the
following
> clipboard code in a Google post:
>
> import win32clipboard as clip
>          ...
>         clip.OpenClipboard(0)
>         if clip.IsClipboardFormatAvailable(clip.CF_TEXT):
>            newText = clip.GetClipboardData(clip.CF_TEXT)
>           textwidget.insert(END, newText)
>         clip.CloseClipboard()
>
> This works but it causes the program to hang on exit. mainloop()
returns but
> the DOS window is frozen. The problem is associated with the clipboard
> functions; i.e., commenting the insert line has no effect.
>
> I'm using Python 2.1 (Pythonwin 2.1.211) on Win98.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Gary Richardson

That's a problem across the board with Tkinter and
Windows. If you check sourceforge, you'll find it on
the bug list. So far, nobody is quite certain whether the
problem is in Windows, Tcl/Tk or Tkinter, and nobody
is working on it, as far as I know.

It only seems to occur if you are using the command
line under Win 9x - it's reported not to be a problem
if you invoke the program from an icon without a
command window.

As far as I can tell, the permanent solution is to use
another graphics package. I'm very patiently waiting
for anygui to become useful...

John Roth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 09:35:40 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 06:35:40 -0800
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203290635.59a7a47d@posting.google.com>

Jeremy wrote:
    
> I want to be able to do - have Python start a CGI server, serve a
> page, get form data, get data from a database, and display dynamic
> content.  I don't need anything industrial strength, just something
> that can handle a single user.


OK. This one has bugged me before even though it's actually quite simple:

    <tested on win2k py2.2>

[1] create the script that will instanciate CGIHTTPServer (server.py)
    # this is my favorite part (-:
    from CGIHTTPServer import test as serve
    if __name__=='__main__': serve()

[2] create an html file which is going to call your python cgi script (test.html)
    <html>
    <head>
        <title>CGI Test</title>
    </head>
    <body>
        <form name="myform" action="cgi-bin/testcgi.py" method="GET">
            <input type='text' name='query' size="40">
            <input type="submit" value=' search '>
        </form>
    </body>
    </html>


[3] create a folder in the same directory as the two files above (cgi-bin)

[4] create the script that will be called by your html file (testcgi.py)
    #!python
    
    import cgi   
    print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
    form = cgi.FieldStorage()
    for name in form.keys():
        print "Input: " + name + " --> " + form[name].value + "\n"
    print "Finished!"

[5] point your browser to http://localhost:8000/test.html
    
    and enjoy.

ciao

Sandy


From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Mar 21 02:30:06 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:30:06 +0000
Subject: How Python Cornered Milosevic 
Message-ID: <3C998BFE.3020006@mxm.dk>

On page 2 of this article in Wired, Patrick Ball, a 36-year-old 
"hacktivist," explains that he used Python, among other open source 
tools, to manage and visualize the data used as evidence against Milosevic.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51106,00.html

The world works in mysterious ways sometimes.

regards Max M



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar  4 02:45:10 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:45:10 -0500
Subject: Apology to Bill Gates (was Re: ASV module, CVS modules)
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0203010407.220cba32@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEAKOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Machin -- maybe]
>     my_data.input_from_file("c:\test_data.csv", ASV.CSV(),
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\ASV.py", line 222, in input_from_file
>     file = open(input_file, "rb")
> IOError: invalid argument: rb
> Bill behaving badly: Seems like Bill chucks a wobbly if there is
> a_bloody_tab_character in a file name. I could be maligning Bill
> unjustly; could be GvR & Co -- I'll have a look at the Python source
> in a minute -- but I'd bet a couple of pots of beer that it's down to
> Bill.

Under Python 2.2 on Win98SE I get this:

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> open('c:\test_data.csv', 'rb')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c:\test_data.csv'
>>>

Also under 2.1 and 2.0, except under 2.0 the detail reads

IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c:\011est_data.csv'

instead.



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 11:38:14 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:38:14 +0000
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <a6ontm$beg$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

dsavitsk wrote:

> 
> i found this
> http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/ScientificPythonManual/
> but it seems to be unix only and i am on win32. as far as standard

you can probably get the stuff you want running under win. I'd be very 
surprised if all of Konrad's code was tied to unix (though I can't tell for 
sure, I use it under unix).

> 
> There seems to be some stuff in scipy, but i am having trouble geting
> through the docs.??also,?do?i?want?to?look?at?numpy?

Scipy is early and still a bit rough to install, but fabulous. And yes, you 
NEED numpy for anything numerical in python above the toy level. Both 
konrad's libs and scipy are numpy based anyway.

cheers,

f


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 20 09:26:07 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:26:07 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C985678.8010200@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C989BFF.62E9DA22@engcorp.com>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 
> For example, where I work, we have JRE for OS/390 (by IBM). 
> Is there a mainframe interpreter for Python? Or, will Jython do?

Okay, now you're really getting into areas where you ought to
do your own research and come back when you have questions
you can't resolve on your own:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=python+os%2F390

-Peter


From jschmitt at ati.com  Thu Mar 21 13:08:19 2002
From: jschmitt at ati.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:08:19 -0800
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
Message-ID: <C17613BF4690D211910C0008C749124204CFE707@ca00exh01.ca.atitech.com>

I did something mildly cheezy like this to distinguish between different
windows flavours:

#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
class ComputerInfo:
    OSnames =\
    {
        "Windows 2000" : "Windows2000",
        "Windows 2002" : "WindowsXP",
        "4.10.1998"    : "Windows98"
    }

    #- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-
    def __init__( self ):
        self.infoGet( "net config" ) # this is win98's syntax
        try:
            name = self.computername
            osname = self.OSName
        except:
            self.infoGet( "net config workstation" ) # this works for win2k
and xp
            
    #- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-
    def infoGet( self, string ):
        computername = "Computer name"
        username = "User name"
        softwareversion = "Software version"
        infofile = open( "computerinfo.txt", "wt" )
        CmdRun( string, infofile )
        infofile.close()
        for line in fileinput.input( "computerinfo.txt" ):
            if line.find( computername ) == 0:
                self.computername = os.path.split(
line[len(computername):].strip() )[1]
            if line.find( username ) == 0:
                self.username = line[len(username):].strip()
            if line.find( softwareversion ) == 0:
                self.softwareversion = line[len(softwareversion):].strip()
                self.OSName = ComputerInfo.OSnames[self.softwareversion]



#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
def CmdRun( path, logfile=None ):
    print "CmdRun: ", time.ctime( time.time() )
    print "CmdRun:     ", path
    (instream,outstream) = os.popen4( path )
    while 1:
        line = outstream.readline()
        if not line:
            break
        try:
            if logfile:
                logfile.write( line )
        except IOError:
            print "Exception generated on '%s'" % line
-------------- next part --------------
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From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  8 18:37:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 23:37:37 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <vrXh8.102906$nz4.9380881@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a6bi01$3s5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:51:39 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:a6912n$jnt$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> Sorry, I wasn't making clear an unspoken condition I really had in
>mind ;-)
>> I think (3) does follow (2) using the added explicit condition that
>the
>> text quotation is to be part of the source text of a program or
>module,
>> and the quoted text must not need to be changed or restricted to do
>it.
>
>With the added conditions, the logic works much better.
>
>...
>> The simplest practical example is wanting to use a paste operation
>> to insert arbitrary text into a program source without having to
>inspect
>> the text or modify it, yet be able to use it to define a string
>> with the exact raw text value.
>
>As Greg Ewing noted, you still have to scan the text with your method,
>so why not scan for triple quotes - which are *extremely* rare in any
>text except Python code and *quite* easy to spot (speaking for
>myself).  One can always use the interpreter to check also.  Write
>s='''\
><paste text here>
>'''
>and run or paste into interpreter.  If there is a ''' that one missed,
>there will almost certainly be a SyntaxError reported, with the line
>number.  One could also follow the definition of s with 'print
>s[:-100]' to see if entire quotation got included in assignment.
>
>For myself, I can hardly imagine wanting to incorparate gobs of
>someone else's text into my code.  If I did, I would want to look at
>it and/or isolate it in a separate module where it could be tested as
>above.  I would also feel free to modify it with escape codes if
>necessary.
>
I'd prefer to have a quick look and choose an easy delimiter and be done,
instead of all that testing to see if there were tricky \''' sequences
and whatnot, and then fussing with the content, which diff could then
no longer see as quivalent to the original.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Mar 15 01:24:38 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:24:38 -0000
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1016173476.645562@yasure>

Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
...
| When select returns a file descriptor, that means that read()
| won't block.  If only a partial line is available, then
| readline() will still block.  I doubt that this is going to be
| an issue, since your output is probably line-oriented.

That's a good point.

The complementary problem, of course, is that once you have invoked
readline(), it will read all the data available on the file descriptor,
or a lot of it anyway, and return only the first line.  The next time,
it will return the next line from its buffer, but you have no way to
know that it has another line waiting there.  select() can't see it.
There are solutions, I think the easiest thing in most cases is to
throw away the file object and just use the file descriptor (fileno())
(or sockets in this case.)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From bptonner at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 18:38:51 2002
From: bptonner at yahoo.com (bptonner at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:38:51 -0500
Subject: Launching Tkinter or wxWindows frames from interpreter
Message-ID: <3C9E638B.1260E9DC@yahoo.com>

I want to launch frames to plot graphs from the Idle interpreter prompt.
The example plotting utilties from wxPython/wxWindows (wxPlotCanvas),
and from Scientific Python (TkPlotCanvas)are good starting points (and
they both work fine).

The problem is that once the windowing "app" is put into the event loop,
the interpreter hangs up. In other words, after calling app.MainLoop()
(wxWindows) or window.mainloop() (TkPlotCanvas)you can't continue in the
interpreter until closing the frame or window.

I can work around this by breaking the rules, and putting up frames
without event loops (not calling app.MainLoop or window.mainloop).
Everything works, except that then the frames cannot be closed. The
OnCloseWindow event is still called, but it is apparently queued,
waiting to be 'caught' by an event loop that has not been enabled.

I need to be able to call a function that will pop open the Tkinter or
wxWindow frame, but continue to allow input at the interpreter command
line. What's the proper way to do this?

-Brian


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Mar  9 01:35:09 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:35:09 -0000
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <a6b91d$oau$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <slrna8ipl5.bsq.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <1015655700.378331@yasure>

Quoth "A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org>:
| In article <a6b91d$oau$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:
| > but putting us in kind of a backwater.  If we sort of collectively
| > agree on 2.1.1 (or whatever) for that role, though, that backwater
| > could get pretty lively.
|
| Seems unlikely; if people can't muster enough interest to participate
| in handling bugs and patches in the current CVS tree, the likelihood
| of taking on the even drier and duller job of backporting fixes seems
| an order of magnitude less probable.  Unless someone can be found to
| pay money for it, of course.

Could be just the opposite, though.  If you're submitting a fix so that
it will turn up in the next release with everyone else's fixes, then
people working with 2.1.x have it pretty good (because the next release
is a minor one, not 2.3 or whatever comes out of the CVS tree next.)

But I really wasn't thinking of fixes so much.  If there are lots of
people using 2.1.2 and it has a serious bug, then I'm sure someone
will come up with a fix sooner or later, but I was thinking more in
terms of 3rd party work, so to speak.  Packages.  Like the phenomenon
Roy was describing, but on a more global scale - you find out there's
a cool module out there, but alas, you'd need to upgrade to use it,
and the upgrade would be more pain than it's worth.  Steve Turnbull's
solution "So you standardize locally", but applied at this scale -
so you standardize globally.  2.1.2 is really a step forward for the
Python world as a whole, since there's a massive 1.5.2 contingent out
there right now.  I don't know, there's been some gnashing of teeth
about Redhat's release schedule vs. Python's, maybe they and other
platform vendors really need a not-so-current release that's still
somewhat active.

	Donn


From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Tue Mar  5 19:02:11 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:02:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: need to safely spawn subshells from multithreaded server - how?
References: <mailman.1015263616.7848.python-list@python.org> <3C84A082.4CB52129@dlr.de>
Message-ID: <1015372931.356897@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Thilo Ernst (Thilo.Ernst at dlr.de) wrote:
: Somehow I was much more lucky in digging the web today, so after more
: reading up I give a preliminary answer to my own question. Perhaps this
: might help other people running into the same problem.  It would be nice in
: this regard if any thread/fork experts would assess whether the situation
: is correctly summarized below.

I'm glad you pursued this.  In the past few years, I have on three
completely independent occasions needed to implement a server process that
forks subprocesses and waits for their completion in separate threads.
I've had problems, but the code is too natural to give up on.

Greg


From denro at NSPAMearthlink.net  Mon Mar  4 17:32:09 2002
From: denro at NSPAMearthlink.net (Dennis Roark)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:32:09 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex@netWindows.org> <a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91C7A8492A25denroearthlinknet@207.217.77.25>

Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote in
news:a5rfo4.3vsfkqf.1 at kserver.org: 

> 
> That's funny. I'm not familiar with the Lippman/Lajoie book, but I
> have a LOT of C++ texts here at home. And I learned C++ from the
> Deitel and Deitel book, and thought it was pretty good. Later, when I
> taught C++ I used it as a reference, although I didn't select it as
> the text for my course. Most people I know who are familiar with the
> Deitel and Deitel C++ text think it is very good.
> 

We must not know the same people.  The Lippman/Lajoie book, as the 
Lippman book that preceded it, are superb and actually useful for 
learning and reference, although probably not for a first course.


-- 
Dennis Roark

denro at earthlink.net
Starting Points:
www.home.earthlink.net/~denro


From ark at research.att.com  Sat Mar 30 10:52:47 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 10:52:47 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
	<m3ofh6s2ux.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	<200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <yu99eli2xdbk.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Guido> You've been staring at standards too much, haven't you?  The
Guido> difference between MUST and SHOULD isn't as clear-cut as most
Guido> standards people use them.

In the ISO standards world, ``must'' doesn't mean what you
probably think it does:

        should:    encouraged, but not required
        shall:     required
        must:      it is impossible for things to be otherwise

So, for example, one can imagine describing a function with a
Boolean parameter named x by saying something like:

        If x is true, the result shall be foo.
        Otherwise, x must be false, and the result shall be bar.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 18:05:03 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:05:03 +0000
Subject: [ANN] PYNOSPAM 0.1 (and some Embedded-Python-Questions)
References: <3ca4b9e8.10558859@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaach4v.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:12:46 GMT, Gerson Kurz <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote:
>pynospam is a Python-Powered extension for Microsoft Outlook, that
>will 
>
>- filter spam mail i.e. tag the subject line with [SPAM!] if it thinks
>it is spam. 
>
>- Because the spam detection is based on an at-runtime-interpreted
>python-script, you can easily add your own spam detection algorithms
>using regexs and whatnot. 

The fact that you've written this demonstrates that Outlook has a 
way of enabling user-written filters for incoming email. To your 
knowledge, does Outlook allow filters for outgoing email too?

(The reason I ask is regarding my Herbivore program, which 
implements zero-effort encryption by filtering all incoming and 
outgoing email -- at some point I want herbivore to run on Windows 
email clients).

(See <http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/intro.html> for 
details of herbivore)


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar 26 15:39:27 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800
Subject: Primes....
References: <mailman.1017171521.13796.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xadsvm5c0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"FREDRIK HULDTGREN" <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> writes:

> I am looking for a way(either by finding a module online, or by getting
> some helpfull hints on how to write this myself) to generate **large**
> prime numbers. All help is appreciated(Id rather write the code myself
> since I tend to like understanding the code that I use, but if the math
> is too heavy I'll have to use other code...)

How large is large?  If you're trying to do cryptography, just
generate random odd numbers of the size you want, do some trial
divisions to eliminate candidates with small divisors, then do a
few Fermat or Miller-Rabin tests, til you get a prime.  Of course
if you have gmpy, just do this:

    import gmpy,secrand
    def getprime(nbytes):
        while 1:
            p=secrand.getlong(nbytes) | 3
            if gmpy.is_prime(p): return p
       
where secrand.py (for unix/linux) is as follows:

    # Secure random number generator

    # Copyright 2001 Paul Rubin, Fort GNOX Cryptography
    # Copying permissions: GNU General Public License version 2.

    # $Id: secrand.py,v 1.5 2001/09/21 07:10:44 phr Exp phr $

    class _secrand:
        def __init__(self):
            self.__f = open("/dev/urandom")
        def getbytes(self,nbytes):
            return self.__f.read(nbytes)
        def gethex(self,nbytes):
            import binascii
            return binascii.hexlify(self.getbytes(nbytes))
        def getlong(self,nbytes):
            return long(self.gethex(nbytes), 16)

    secrand = _secrand()

If you're trying to break the world record for finding the largest
known prime, you'd normally look at special types of numbers (Mersenne
numbers) and use some special algorithms for recognizing them and
doing the arithmetic.  It's not really practical to do that in Python.


From zippity_do_dah at growgreen.org  Sun Mar 24 16:36:58 2002
From: zippity_do_dah at growgreen.org (Token Bowles)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:36:58 GMT
Subject: I am TGOS your new ruler
References: <07fcd5f6.3ba05335@tgos.org>
Message-ID: <zippity_do_dah-87E675.13365724032002@netnews.attbi.com>

In article <07fcd5f6.3ba05335 at tgos.org>, TGOS <tgos at spamcop.net> wrote:

> That's right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking,
> brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I'm taking over all of Usenet! There
> isn't a fucking thing you can do about it either! You're all a bunch
> of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don't
> like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet
> history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your
> knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self!
> 
> I AM THE GUARDIAN OF SAILOR MOON! LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!
> 
> My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time
> forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!
> 
> 

Kewl!!


From quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Mar 13 16:59:18 2002
From: quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 21:59:18 GMT
Subject: structseq and keywords?
References: <slrna8u819.130.quinn@vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu> <ulmcwsr38.fsf@python.net> <slrna8urp6.kb8.QnickQm@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrna8vitm.sl2.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:22:18 GMT, Nick Mathewson <QnickQm at alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>As the original author of the structseq patch, I should respond.
>
>In article <ulmcwsr38.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson wrote:
>> quinn at vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) writes:
> [...]
>> In the current implementation, you're not really expected to create
>> structseq objects.  Why would you?
>
>I agree with this.  One of the explicit design decisions was that
>since it's so easy to create a lookalike class in Python, there's not
>a lot of reason to expose structseq as a metatype.

Ok, I guess what I really wanted was a DEFSTRUCT-like facility.  I'll use
Michael's python StructSeq for that.  I was originally going to do things that
way, but some demon whispered and I decided not to, for whatever reason.

Thanks!


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar 12 15:26:36 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:26:36 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (fwd) 
Message-ID: <OFC82A261D.97F97BAB-ON88256B7A.006BE54A@i2.com>

[Tim Peters]
> I didn't have subclassing in mind; e.g.,

Got it.  Wrapping is better, too, because one generic wrapper can handle
all table-like structures (instead of needing multiple subclasses).

[snip generously provided sample implementation]

> That implements more than the example at the start actually needs;
> cut back to taste <wink>.

Au contraire.  Why not forget simplicity and pour on the spices --
heartburn and high blood pressure be damned?  With this nice framework I
can throw in lots of recent suggestions along with the kitchen sink.

    def rowIndices() # return iterator of 0,1,...,r-1 (might not need it,
but I like it ;-)
    def colIndices() # similar
    def indexedRows() # return iterator of index,row pairs (might actually
be handy)
    def indexedCols() # similar

Yes, I just might go hog wild.

[snip]

> I'd try a dict, mapping types to unbound methods, like:
>
> rowcounter = {JTable: JTable.getRowCount,
>               DefaultTableModel: DefaultTableModel.getRowCount,
>               ThirdPartyBozo: ThirdPartyBozo.getNumberOfRows}
>
> def ri(table):
>     "Return indices of table rows."
>     return range(rowcounter[type(table)](table))
>
> I don't know whether that works exactly as-is in Jython, but you get
> the idea.

The JTable.getRowCount part works in Jython, but type(table) doesn't
because "type" returns the generic Jython class PyInstance -- kind of like
how cPython returns 'instance' for classic-class objects -- so it doesn't
differentiate properly.  But table.__class__ works so I can use that as an
alternative.

> Unless you have an unbounded number of classes (a bad Smalltalk
> habit you should have given up by now <wink>),

Actually, many implementations (due to the use of tagged pointers) have an
upper limit of 2 ** 31 classes -- I've rarely had the need to define more
than 2 ** 29 (give or take a couple that are often not *strictly* necessary
but thrown in for the sake of "purity over practicality") even in large
applications.  So "unbounded" really is a bit of an unfair
characterization.

Jim


oh yeah, forgot the <wink>.  <wink>





From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar  6 14:53:15 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:53:15 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF8E0745B3.2DC0CF19-ON88256B74.006C4151@i2.com>

[Andy Gimblett]
> This just came to me:
>
> for index in indices(items):
>     pass
>
> or maybe better yet:
>
> for index in items.indices():
>     pass

Warning: the latter could get you into trouble with the "methods are
overrated" crowd <wink>.

Some folks, indeed, are fond of this suggestion.

Two points:

1) PEP 276 doesn't prevent "indices" from being added.

2) The "indices" approach is not general enough to handle the example used
in PEP 276.

>>># not the real thing, but an incredible simulation <wink>
>>>
>>>for rowindex in indices(mytable):
>>>    print mytable.getValueAt(rowindex,0)
>>>...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: len() of unsized object
>>>

Jim




From zfelleg at telnet.hu  Sun Mar 24 17:49:41 2002
From: zfelleg at telnet.hu (Zoltan Felleg)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:49:41 +0100
Subject: Installer 5b3 problem
Message-ID: <3C9E5805.3060102@telnet.hu>

Hello,

If this list is not the right place for this stuff, please redirect me 
to the proper one (and forgive me for bothering you here).
I have a problem with the new mcmillan installer, namely the following 
code freezes at the commands.getstatusoutput() line when its function 
runs as a thread. The script itself works correctly, the "frozen" 
executable does not. (It did work with installer 5b2). The system is Red 
Hat Linux 7.2, with Python 2.2 compiled from source, and the database 
(for the shelve) is gdbm. (I can use installer 5b2, but if the problem 
is not in my script, it would be nice to have the next installer version 
without this glitch). The script is as follows:

import time
import shelve
import thread
import commands

def main():
     db = shelve.open('/tmp/test.db')
     db.sync()
     callprogram('main')
     time.sleep(1)
     thread.start_new_thread(callprogram, ('thread',))
     time.sleep(1)

def callprogram(parameter):
     print 'Starting', parameter
     rc, output = commands.getstatusoutput('/sbin/ifconfig')
     print output, rc
     print 'Ending', parameter

if __name__ == '__main__':
     main()

It runs perfectly without opening the shelve, but if it is opened, the 
thread hangs...

Regards, zoltan




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Mar 15 23:20:11 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 04:20:11 GMT
Subject: Disabling rexec for ActiveScripting in Local Intranet Zone?
References: <a6q3hf$2br$1@nixe.ISAR.net> <3C912376.7020902@skippinet.com.au> <a6saj7$isv$1@nixe.ISAR.net> <u93v2m5ct8748f@news.supernews.com> <3C92C792.6060406@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3C92C800.6070309@skippinet.com.au>

Mark Hammond wrote:

Oops - premature send :)


> To disable rexec, open pyscript.py and locate the following block:
>     def RegisterNamedItem(self, item):
>         if self.rexec_env is None:
>             if self.safetyOptions:
>                 # Use RExec.
>                 self.rexec_env = AXRExec(self.globalNameSpaceModule)
>             else:
>                 # DONT use RExec.
>                 self.rexec_env = AXNotRExec(self.globalNameSpaceModule)

and modify the code accordingly.

Of course, it seems to me that even better would be a fix so that if IE 
has had the security restrictions lifted, then RExec is not used.  I 
will try and remember to look into this (but feel free to add a new bug 
in the ActivePython bug database)

Mark.




From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Mon Mar 25 18:12:58 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0800
Subject: Is it really so difficult to enable Tkinter?
References: <f6e6d4dd.0203251458.25ded181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FAEFA.BB2A6A23@activestate.com>

Bart Meerdink wrote:
> 
> (Warning: I'm a bit of a Python-newbie)

Welcome! 

> And sadly, the nice ActiveState rpm distribution, which worked out of
> the box, seems not to be maintained anymore.

Not true!  We're a little late, but we're getting there.  We'll do a 2.2
release immininently, showcasing a brand new Windows installer,
accompanied by an RPM version.  We'll follow up with 2.1.2 and 2.2.1
releases soon thereafter.

On both Windows and Unix, these ActivePython releases will bundle Tcl/Tk
8.3.4.

> One more question: is it on purpose that idle is left out?

We forgot to include the Tools directory in previous ActivePython
releases, an omission which has been fixed in the upcoming releases.

-- David Ascher



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 23 15:33:52 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 20:33:52 GMT
Subject: a website information gathering script
References: <3C9B33FA.3D853D65@lmco.com>
Message-ID: <a7iorg$pg6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:39:06 -0600, Scott Hathaway <scott.l.hathaway at lmco.com> wrote:

>I have a simple python script which gathers information about a website
>and produces an html report about what it finds.  The way it works is
>very clunky and I would appreciate some feedback and help improving it.
>
>http://www.hcsprogramming.com/downloads/index.html
>
Unless you know that the format of your files is more restricted than their
types require, your criterion for finding a file reference is going to
get spurious hits (of course the other side is you can't statically find
strings that don't exist until run time either, when it comes to program sources).

E.g., for HTML you could do a much better job by using the HTMLParser module.
UIAM it also normalizes things to lower case for you, besides letting you
skip commented-out references and similar character sequences in
the data part. And since the parser makes it easy to get hrefs, you could
split and check #-references and definitions too.

The other files should really be parsed too, if you want to avoid spurious
matches.

As Emile pointed out, concatenating strings with '+' is relatively expensive,
and one way of doing it more cheaply is to put the pieces in a list and later
join them. You can do that in a style that looks similar to what you did, but
is a lot more efficient.

Note that strings separated by white space are concatenated by the compiler,
and in a () or [] context that white space can include EOLs, so you can mix
string fragments and expressions e.g., like this:

 >>> x= '<example>'
 >>> a = [
 ...     '123'
 ...     '456'
 ...     '\n', x*2 , '\n'
 ...     'abc'
 ...     'def'
 ... ]
 >>> a
 ['123456\n', '<example><example>', '\nabcdef']

Notice that 'a' wound up a list of _3_ strings here,
and note the commas isolating the x*2 expression.

 >>> print ''.join(a)
 123456
 <example><example>
 abcdef
 >>> a += ['\nYou can add this way too, for ', x[1:-1], '.']
 >>> print ''.join(a)
 123456
 <example><example>
 abcdef
 You can add this way too, for example.
 >>> a += [
 ... '\nOr'
 ...   ' this'
 ...     ' way'
 ...       '\n(noting that indent is ignored inside () or [].' ]
 >>> print ''.join(a)
 123456
 <example><example>
 abcdef
 You can add this way too, for example.
 Or this way
 (noting that indent is ignored inside () or [].
 >>>
 
Of course, you can arrange pieces to suit, but the point
is that it needn't be expensive to write a mix of string fragments
and expressions in a sequence, and you can lay it out in
multiple lines of source without a += 'next string piece' expense
at every line (noting that the similar looking
    a += ['a string ',foo(),' more']
is comparatively cheap).

Triple quotes of course are good for defining lines without using '\n',
and you can plug in pieces symbolically from a directory:

 >>> b = """<h2>%(bigText)s</h2>
 ... <font color="red">%(redText)s</font>
 ... etc...
 ... """
 >>> stuff = {'bigText':'Should be big', 'redText':'Should be red'}
 >>> b % stuff
 '<h2>Should be big</h2>\n<font color="red">Should be red</font>\netc...\n'
 >>> print b % stuff
 <h2>Should be big</h2>
 <font color="red">Should be red</font>
 etc...

You can also use vars() in place of stuff to pick up symbols
from the local or other dictionaries.

You might also want to consider using dictionaries for some
sets of things instead of lists.

To enhance the directory walker, you could give it globbing
and excluding and optional recursion controls. Perhaps make
it a class meant to be subclassed like HTMLParse, feeding it
glob strings and having it call convenient methods.

BTW, I'd try to avoid useless re-computation, as in putting
".tolower()" on stuff that's already guaranteed lower case
by previous code. And  file = str(file) looks like a no-op
in its context. Also, if you have a series of mutually
exclusive if conditions, making the if's after the first
into elif's will avoid executing tests after one succeeds.

BTW2, all those .endswith() tests would succeed on file names
without extensions but having the given suffix. You could fix
it, but Emile's version avoids that by splitting on '.' so you
gain two ways ;-)

That enough for this go ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 19:31:57 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:31:57 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015439892.7298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8dd7t.dqm.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:37:17 -0700, Bjorn Pettersen <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote:
>> From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu] 
>> Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
>
>Thanks for writing the PEP.
>
>I see this as a general proposal for a range syntax, and I disagree with
>it because:
>
>  - it doesn't handle the general range issues, i.e. step value,
>    and if we had to add yet another syntax to get general ranges
>    it would be too confusing.
>
>  - I would like range objects to be first class, ie. I would want
>    to be able to pass ranges to functions, return them from 
>    functions, and do all the other things one can do with first
>    class objects. This proposal only adds syntactic sugar to the 
>    for loop.

What is wrong with using the existing range() and xrange()?

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From teyc at cognoware.com  Wed Mar 20 22:12:33 2002
From: teyc at cognoware.com (Chui Tey)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 19:12:33 -0800
Subject: win32process.CreateProcess inherit handles not working ?
Message-ID: <9364c0c7.0203201912.1ba8fde6@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've been trying to get this going for a while and I'd appreciate it
if
someone can point out what's wrong with the following test? It works
fine on Win98 but fails on NT and W2K. I am using Python 2.1

# test.py
#

def setup():
    open("slave.py","w").write("""
import sys
while 1:
    line = sys.stdin.readline()
    if not line: break
    sys.stdout.write("read: %s" % line)
""")
    open("slavein.txt","w").write("""
    The
    Quick
    Brown
    Fox
""")

def test():
    "Does the equivalent of C:\\python21\\python.exe slave.py <
slavein.txt > slaveout.txt"
    _CreateProcess( \
    "C:\\python21\\pythonw.exe", # app
    ['slave.py'],               # args
    'slavein.txt',              # input file
    'slaveout.txt')             # output file
    if open('slaveout.txt','r').read() == "":
        print "Error: stdout not redirected!"
    

def _CreateProcess(app, args, filein, fileout):

    """Returns the pid.
       app = executable name
       args = list of arguments
       filein = name of file to redirect to stdin
       fileout = name of file to redirect the stdout to
    """
 
    import win32process
    import win32file
    import pywintypes
    import win32security
    import win32event
    import win32api

    u_filein = pywintypes.Unicode(filein)
    u_fileout = pywintypes.Unicode(fileout)

    SA_proc = win32security.SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES()
    SA_thrd = win32security.SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES()
    SA_proc.bInheritHandle = 1
    SA_thrd.bInheritHandle = 1
    #SA = None

    SI = win32process.GetStartupInfo()
    SI.dwFlags = win32process.STARTF_USESTDHANDLES
    
    hStdInput = win32file.CreateFile(
        u_filein,                   # filename
        win32file.GENERIC_READ,     # mode
        win32file.FILE_SHARE_READ,  # share
        SA_proc,                    # security attributes 
        win32file.OPEN_EXISTING,    # creation disposition
        win32file.FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, # flags
        0                           # hTemplate file
    )
    hStdOutput = win32file.CreateFile(
        u_fileout,                  # filename
        win32file.GENERIC_WRITE,    # mode
        win32file.FILE_SHARE_WRITE, # share
        SA_proc,                    # security attributes 
        win32file.CREATE_ALWAYS,    # creation disposition
        win32file.FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, # flags
        0                           # hTemplate file
    )
    SI.hStdInput = SI.hStdInput
    SI.hStdOutput = SI.hStdOutput
    SI.hStdError  = SI.hStdOutput

    cmdline = app + " " + " ".join(args)
    hProcess, hThread, pid, threadid =  \
        win32process.CreateProcess( 
        app,                    # lpApplicationName
        cmdline,                # command line
        SA_proc,                # Process security attributes
        SA_thrd,                # Thread security attributes
        1,                      # Inherit handles
        win32process.DETACHED_PROCESS,  #
        None, 
        None, 
        SI)

    win32event.WaitForSingleObject(hProcess, win32event.INFINITE)

    win32file.CloseHandle(hStdInput)
    win32file.CloseHandle(hStdOutput)
    
    return pid

if __name__=="__main__":
    setup()
    test()


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Tue Mar  5 08:15:32 2002
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:15:32 GMT
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk> <3c84c0d4_4@Usenet.com>
Message-ID: <3C84C4F3.4090205@bath.ac.uk>

marduk wrote:
> You're better off using htmllib (and httplib for that matter).  I haven't
> looked at your examples, but I can tell just by looking at your code that
> it will fail, for example, when "<title>" and "</title>" are on seperate
> lines in the HTML.  Also, I might be mistaken, but it doesn't look like
> you are re search is case insensitive.
> 
> Either way, try the htmllib.  It takes care of all that stuff for you!

I'd love to (mainly to avoid the averhead of running lynx about a 
hundred times) - unfortunately my University web server doesn't have the 
socket module properly installed which means nearly all of the web 
related python modules won't run :/

I'm willing to risk multi line titles not working for the moment (after 
all they are pretty rare and my script is only being used in a very 
limited capacity) - thanks for the tips though :)




From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Mon Mar 25 15:23:43 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:43 -0500
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
Message-ID: <jjb5-D730DB.15234325032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

I so boldly said "counter example" on Friday, and while that may have 
been misinterpreted as a counter example to forming a Logic-SIG, what I 
ment was that I had something to kick off a discussion.

I propose to add a few keywords, hopefully I'll be using terms 
consistent with Prolog, but it's been a while, and other comments are 
welcome.

First, add 'goal' to define goals, like functions:

    goal sibling(X,Y):
        parent(Z,X)
        parent(Z,Y)

A goal looks like a function call in the code.

    adam, betsy, clide, dave, edith = range(5)

    assert(parent(adam, clide))     # needs help...
    assert(parent(adam, dave))

    def test1():
        print "Ah!"
        sibling(clide, dave)
        print "Yes!"

    >>> test1()
    Ah!
    Yes!

Then add 'cut' and 'fail' as statements:

    def test2():
        sibling(clide,X)
        print X
        cut
        print "-cut-"
        fail

    >>> test2()
    3
    -cut-

Without the cut statement the output would look like this, because clide 
is considered a sibling of himself:

    def test3():
        sibling(clide,X)
        print X
        fail

    >>> test3()
    3
    2

Unlike Python functions, the same goal could be defined more than one 
way:

    goal sibling(X,Y):
        mom(Z,X)
        mom(Z,Y)

    goal sibling(X,Y):
        dad(Z,X)
        dad(Z,Y)

With my limited Python experience I get the impression that the variable 
'_' is frowned upon, so I would replace it with the keyword 'Any'.

    goal isachild(X):
        parent(Any,X)

Goals can return values, so they can be used like functions:

    goal sibling2(X,Y):
        parent(Z,X)
        parent(Z,Y)
        return Z

    def test4():
        p = sibling2(clide,dave)
        print p

    >>> test4()
    0

Almost every Prolog book has an example of list membership, but while 
the slicing operation can be done simply in Prolog:

    member(X,[X|_]).
    member(X,[_|Y]) :- member(X,Y).

The same kind of thing doesn't seem to fit Python:

    goal member(X,[X|_]): pass

So it would have to be done with a some statements:

    goal member(X,L):
        if (len(x) == 0):
            fail
        if (X != L[0]):
            fail

    goal member(X,L):
        member(X,L[1:])

Comments?


Joel


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 17:37:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:37:57 -0500
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl> <3C9E2D31.E45278BC@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017001636.2854.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E5545.A16972EC@engcorp.com>

holger at trillke.net wrote:
> 
> > > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > I'm curious what the agent actually does if it doesn't share
> > anything.  Does it not take input?  And produce output?
> > No opening files, accessing Queues and such?  If it does
> > any of those things, wouldn't that make it potentially a
> > problem if you killed it?
> 
> Well. my agents share a namespace (named share:-) through which they
> can get to one another.

So you can guarantee that the way they interact is through
carefully controlled interfaces which are still completely 
safe even in the face of asynchronous and unexpected thread
termination?

> You don't neccessarily need to brutally kill the thread without
> the running code in that thread to notice it. Something like this
> would be nice:
> 
> def run(self): # thread's run
>     try:
>         while something:
>             do_something()
>     except ThreadInterruptException,e:
>         niceley_free_locked_resources_or_such()

Well, if you're willing to do that, things become much easier,
perhaps.  It sounds like you have your threads talking together
or to a management thread in a controlled fashion, through 
the safe interfaces I mentioned above.  If that's the case, 
why not just have those low-level routines check for a thread
termination flag and "raise ThreadInterruptException" if
they see it?  Technically voluntary on the part of the thread,
but then it was supposed to be cooperating, right?

I've done this in one system by modifying 'threading' to
have a flag in each thread, and in several low-level 
routines I check for that flag and throw an exception
if I see it.  Threads have always executed cleanly and
cleaned up after themselves.  In the cases where threads
are actually blocking in operating system calls (reading
from serial ports, in my case), I contrived to make sure
they always have reasonably short timeouts (several seconds)
so they would always check for thread termination often
enough.  It all depends how much control you have over
the environment.

-Peter


From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Mar 19 15:12:59 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 21:12:59 +0100
Subject: Serial Ports
References: <3c96c220$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns91D6D7F41B638cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Jamie Carl" <jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au> wrote in
news:3c96c220$1_1 at news.iprimus.com.au: 
> point in the right direction regarding how I would go about 
> accessing a serial com port from Python.  I'd like to do it mainly 
> under Linux, but hopefully it will work under windows aswell.

i have a lib here:
http://pyserial.sf.net

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 28 13:50:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 18:50:03 GMT
Subject: Extending/embedding versus separation
References: <mailman.1017314023.26429.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7vokr$qdo$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:09 -0000, "skoria" <shomon at softhome.net> wrote:

>Hi
>
>Thanks for your help. No, I didn't write the hash tables. I'm writing
>a stats program based on webalizer. Webalizer and Analog were the
>fastest and least memory hungry of all the programs I know of, and
>webalizer is GPL so I was able to use it as a basis for my work, so I
>get to make free software at work! The hash tables are already written
>there. 
>
>This program is intended to run on all the sites hosted by the company
>I work for, and also on sites not hosted by it, hence the memory/disk
>space concerns. 
>
>The way I see it, the python side of things will be a python script
>that imports the C parts, and can therefore process the logfiles and
>turn them into hash tables. These are then fed back to the python
>part, which processes them further, and turns them into graphs and html. 
>
>The reason for this is I need to be able to quickly develop and expand
>on the reports produced, so we can do complicated things like, say,
>visitor paths or percentage increase graphs.
>
OTTOMH, I would guess that you may need to generate some special
representations of visitor paths directly from the logs, unless
the webalizer already does that. But if you have to process the
raw logs in a new way, it will most likely be easier to get right
in Python than by cannibalizing existing C.

I'd make sure the raw logs contain the data you actually
need for your purposes. Hashes are easy in python. E.g., here is a
tiny example counting hits on my little private net (this is done
on the server, which is an old P90 with 48mb ram and a slow pio disk,
running slackware linux and apache). Then I ran the same thing on
NT4 P2 300mhz with 320mb ram, which is not a real screamer these days,
but went 10x faster ;-): Also the python on the slackware box is 1.5.2
vs 2.2 on NT, so I used only 1.5.2 features (something to consider).

=======< snip >========= 
~/misc$ cat hosthits.py
#!/usr/bin/python
import string, sys, time
tstart = time.clock()
f = open(sys.argv[1])
d = {}
while 1:
    host = string.split(f.readline(),' ',1)[0]
    if not host: break
    if d.has_key(host):
        d[host] = d[host] + 1
    else:
        d[host] = 1
it = d.items()
it.sort()
hits = 0
for k,v in it:
    hits = hits + v
    print '%6d hits came from %s' % (v,k)
print '------\n%6d total hits.' % hits
print '\nTotal time: ', time.clock()-tstart

~/misc$ v /var/log/access_log
-rw-r--r--   1 root     root      1699460 Mar 28 11:00 /var/log/access_log
~/misc$ python hosthits.py /var/log/access_log
  1913 hits came from 192.168.1.100
 15240 hits came from 192.168.2.1
     6 hits came from 192.168.2.3
------
 17159 total hits.

Total time:  13.83
=======< snip >========= 

[10:42] C:\pywk\misc>python hosthits.py access_log
  1912 hits came from 192.168.1.100
 15240 hits came from 192.168.2.1
     6 hits came from 192.168.2.3
------
 17158 total hits.

Total time:  1.2641499788

About 10x faster, and about 13,500 log lines/sec.
Recent boxes are a good bit faster yet. So if you
have any kind of recent computer, you
can crunch logs pretty easily. For prototyping,
I'd say don't worry about any C advantage in hashing.
Python does the actual hash work in C anyway.

>As I see it now, the only difference I get if extending python with my
>adapted webalizer, is that I save writing a little output to file and
>parsing it into python again.   
>
>Is this going to be worthwhile?
>
A lot depends on what you are fluent in doing. But it may be less work
re-doing some parsing/hash-generation in python than capturing some C
stuff via extensions -- and then having to do custom processing of
the raw logs anyway (if you forsee that).

My bet is you'd be better off doing the whole thing in Python, and
then worrying about optimizing. IOW, I second John's advice.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar  4 06:48:55 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:48:55 +0100
Subject: Brewster's Factor - was :Trouble running programs 
In-Reply-To: Message from Bernard Yue <bernie@3captus.com> 
   of "Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:33:09 GMT."
Message-ID: <200203041148.g24BmttB007592@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Bernard Yue's sig is:
>
> There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
> the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
> facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
> fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
> Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
> Factor; that's engineering.
> 
> So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
> praise of intelligence.
>                 -- Bertrand Russell

I wanted to know what Brewster's Factor was.  I found out that the first
part of the quote -- the bit that ends with Engineering should be
attributed to Robert A. Heinlein (from The Number of the Beast).  But
the only Brewster Factors I can find have to do with polarised light,
or English Chrisitian Revivalist Victorian political parties, neither
of which I suspect is what I am looking for.  Any ideas?

Laura Creighton



From quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Mar  1 15:51:56 2002
From: quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 20:51:56 GMT
Subject: Minor, minor style question
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.1015002783.32392.python-list@python.org> <a5ojoe$8pgot$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna7vqfc.cuk.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:41 -0800, Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>
>> Why would I prefer
>>   string = ""
>>   string = string + "abc "
>>   string = string + "def "
>>   string = string + "xyz"
>> over
>>   string = "abc " + \
>>       "def " + \
>>       "xyz"
>> ?
>
>Isn't the question about line continuations?  I don't use them (except
>on rare occasions), preferring to do something more like:
>
>string = ('abc' +
>    'def' +
>    'xzy')

Or, if they are all string constants:

string = ('abc'
    'dev'
    'xyz')


From nas at python.ca  Sun Mar 17 17:48:59 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:48:59 -0800
Subject: Eliminate Spam Now... >g< Python w/DNS/&POP3
In-Reply-To: <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002@typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>; from junkster@rochester.rr.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 09:56:15PM +0000
References: <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002@typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20020317144859.B18963@glacier.arctrix.com>

You don't need DNSlib.  socket.gethostbyname() works fine.  Check out my
spamhunter script? for example code.

  Neil 

? http://arctrix.com/nas/python/spamhunter.py



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 23:20:42 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:20:42 -0500
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
References: <mailman.1017027939.3632.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9EA59A.D3F76D2F@engcorp.com>

Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> As I try to track down why my code is getting stuck (in a situation where it
> could take ages to step through in the debugger), I'm using print statements
> so that I can see where it's just been before it freezes.  Trouble is, I'm
> not seeing much consistency in when (how many iterations) or where (in the
> code) it stops responding.
> 
> Now I'm wondering if way of creating signposts is reliable.  Is it possible
> that it's actually hanging up somewhere without actually outputting some of
> my print statements, even though they've been processed?  Sometimes, I'm
> only getting part of the output of a print statement, which seems truly
> weird.  If I had multiple threads, perhaps I could be clobbering the thread
> that's printing my signposts, but I'm not...
> 
> Is there something on Windows (Win2K, to be exact) that I need to do to make
> sure that print statements are actually output as soon as the statement is
> executed.
> 
> Thanks in advance...

I don't recall if print flushes its output after each call, but if you
want to be certain it does, try calling sys.stdout.flush() after your
print calls.  This is a console app, right?, and you aren't redirecting
the output to a file?

By the way, how can Python code get "stuck"?  Is it a logic flaw,
or are you talking about the kind of "stuck" that used to happen,
in the "old days", when we were always writing code in languages
which would actually crash the computer?

-Peter


From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Mar  2 18:45:44 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 01:45:44 +0200
Subject: PEP 234 little bug?
Message-ID: <3c817238@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Just read through some of the already implemented PEPs.

PEP 234 (iterators) states:

>    - It has been proposed that a file object should be its own
>      iterator, with a next() method returning the next line.  This
>      has certain advantages, and makes it even clearer that this
>      iterator is destructive.  The disadvantage is that this would
>      make it even more painful to implement the "sticky
>      StopIteration" feature proposed in the previous bullet.
>
>      Resolution: this has been implemented.

I can't see a next() in a file object. Shouldn't it be
"Resolution: this has not been implemented." ?

Yours,

:M:



From writeson at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  3 18:26:24 2002
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:26:24 GMT
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
Message-ID: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone knows of a text search engine that works with
Python? What I'm looking for specifically is something that will compress
the text and still allow searches and retrievals that can be exact matches
or proximity based. The text I want to compress and search is huge (70 megs)
and should compress down to half, not including any index files that might
be required by the search engine. Anyone know of anything like this or any
ideas?

Thanks,
Doug Farrell




From offer at sgi.com  Mon Mar 25 16:36:39 2002
From: offer at sgi.com (Nhi Vanye)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:36:39 GMT
Subject: Porting a Python app to IRIX -- need help
References: <KDLm8.103638$uA5.85596@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <m38z8jyjmi.fsf@wilma.localdomain>
Message-ID: <a7o597$lqvga$3@fido.engr.sgi.com>

$ from hgg9140 at seanet.com -#190195 | sed "1,$s/^/> /"
>
>
>But now that we are moving to n32, we are using gcc (which only knows
>n32).  gcc is better for some open source libraries and applications.
>  CC='gcc'

The only problem with gcc is:
	
	1) its not as optmised as MIPS Pro
	2) its name mangling algorithm is different if you start using
	   C++ libraries.

>Harry George
>hgg9140 at seanet.com

richard.
-- 
Richard Offer                         Technical Lead, Trust Technology.
"Specialization is for insects"
__________________________________________http://reality.sgi.com/offer/



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar 11 18:06:19 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:06:19 -0500
Subject: Using doctest and executing a process
In-Reply-To: <10d46bdc.0203111449.6bd761f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJDODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Douglas Garstang]
> I'm trying to integrate execution of an external process output into
> doctest.
>
> The following snippet of code:
>
> def tester3():
>     """
>     >>> import os
>     >>> os.system ('/bin/ls')
>     example.py   example.pyc  tester.py
>     0
>     """
>
> produces this output:
>
> (dougg at ultra5-4:)%python example.py
> example.py   example.pyc  tester.py
> *****************************************************************
> Failure in example: os.system ('/bin/ls')
> from line #2 of example.tester3
> Expected:
> example.py   example.pyc  tester.py
> 0
> Got: 0
> *****************************************************************
> 1 items had failures:
>    1 of   2 in example.tester3
> ***Test Failed*** 1 failures.
>
> WHY?

doctest captures output written to Python's sys.stdout.  /bin/ls doesn't
know anything about Python's sys.stdout, and Python's sys.stdout doesn't
know anything about /bin/ls <wink>.

> ...
> Where did the other output from the external program go?

Probably to your terminal.

You may have better luck with, e.g.

>>> os.open('/bin/ls').read()

That gives Python a chance to capture the output /bin/ls sends to *its* idea
of "stdout", and then echoes it back to Python's sys.stdout.




From spacedweller at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:40 2002
From: spacedweller at hotmail.com (j45729)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:05:40 -0000
Subject: hey everyone!!
Message-ID: <a6rruk+2uh3@eGroups.com>

hey everyone!! i don't know what to say...PYTHON ROCKS!!  its so much 
fun it really is a fun language...




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar  3 19:15:41 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:15:41 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015019284.27486.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C82BCAD.945EEA78@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> if I want to iterate up (smaller up to larger) I need to
> write the for-loop as
>     for smaller <= i <= larger:  # can *only* iterate up
> but if I want to iterate down (larger down to smaller) I need to write the
> for-loop with the reverse relational operators
>     for larger >= i >= smaller:  # can *only* iterate down

Sorry, I missed that you wanted the order of iteration
to be variable. You're right, but I don't see that as
a major disadvantage. The vast majority of all for-loops
over integers that I write have a fixed iteration order.
In the rare cases that I wanted otherwise, I'd be
quite happy to write the loop another way.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Mar 24 03:44:49 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 05:44:49 -0300
Subject: [rp] [newbie] embedding python
In-Reply-To: <T1fn8.5030$EE4.17777@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <T1fn8.5030$EE4.17777@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020324054449.A22366@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> i have a python script "file.py" which has a function in it which i
> need to call from my c code. how can i do this! all my projects have
> been postponded becuase i cant do this! please helP! i would be so
> grateful!!

Hummm.. I'm not sure... how grateful? ;-))

> ultimately im trying to embed some python into my c source in UNIX.
> i have absoutely no idea how to do this despite the tutorial on the web at
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/building-on-unix.html#building-on-unix

I don't think this page will be helpful. You should probably be looking
at http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/embedding.html

> it's too general and not step by step enough for a noob like me :(

The best way to learn is to look at existent code, and use in your
benefit the fact that you have the python source in your hands.

Looking at google for "embedding python" will be helpful as well. Here
is an URL I got in the first page:

http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/embed.html

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From jcromwell at ciena.com  Fri Mar 15 15:20:57 2002
From: jcromwell at ciena.com (Cromwell, Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:20:57 -0800
Subject: unittest.py: what is TestResult.__repr__   ?
Message-ID: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B0024A@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>

>From the Python Reference Manual:
Section 3.3.1 Basic customization 
__repr__(self) 
Called by the repr() built-in function and by string conversions (reverse
quotes) to compute the ``official'' string representation of an object. If
at all possible, this should look like a valid Python expression that could
be used to recreate an object with the same value (given an appropriate
environment). If this is not possible, a string of the form "<...some useful
description...>" should be returned. The return value must be a string
object. 
This is typically used for debugging, so it is important that the
representation is information-rich and unambiguous. 

>From the Python Library Reference:
Section 2.1 Built-in Functions 
repr(object) 
Return a string containing a printable representation of an object. This is
the same value yielded by conversions (reverse quotes). It is sometimes
useful to be able to access this operation as an ordinary function. For many
types, this function makes an attempt to return a string that would yield an
object with the same value when passed to eval(). 

-Jeremy Cromwell, today's language lawyer

-----Original Message-----
From: quadzero at users.sourceforge.net
[mailto:quadzero at users.sourceforge.net]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 11:41 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: unittest.py: what is TestResult.__repr__ ?


I'm not a Python programmer (at least, not yet ;)

I am, however, trying to port the unittest.py framework to another
language.  Of all the languages that this testing framework has been
ported to, I thought that Python would be the easiest for me to
decipher.  For the most part, it seems pretty straightforward, except
for...

I'm presently stuck in the TestResult class.  Though I've searched for
the meaning of "__repr__" in the Python22 documentation, I cannot find
it.

Please help me understand this this convention of using leading and/or
trailing underscores in Python.

Thanks in advance...

Richard
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From bradley.s.gaspard at saic.com  Tue Mar 19 12:17:31 2002
From: bradley.s.gaspard at saic.com (Brad Gaspard)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:17:31 -0500
Subject: Returning an element from a C struct
Message-ID: <3C9772AB.1691D362@saic.com>

I'm trying to wrap a C structure in a Python class definition and have
come upon this problem.

class foo:

    __init__(self, dat):
        self.ptr = gnum_t(dat)  # initializes the C struct and returns a
pointer

    __getattr__(self,name):
        try:
            return self.__dict__[name]
        except:
            if name == 'A':
                return self.__dict__['ptr'].A
            elif name == 'B':
                return self.__dict__['ptr'].B
            elif name == 'C':
                return self.__dict__['ptr'].C
            # And many others

}

I know there has to be an easier way to do this??

Thanks in advance.

Brad



From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 13:10:15 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:10:15 GMT
Subject: time out socket
References: <jr4l8.22206$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <j4pu235b3c.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <b_4l8.27066$Vx1.2316031@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thanks Martin,

Good info!

Billy

"Martin von Loewis" <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:j4pu235b3c.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Billy Ng" <evebill8 at hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Would anybody please tell me how time out the socket.connect() if
> > the host does not exists or is unable to connect, thanks!
>
> The connect call will time out eventually on its own, after the
> operating system's timeout has passed.
>
> If you want to shorten the timeout, and you have a Posixish system,
> you can set an alarm using signal.alarm. Make sure you install a
> signal handler; it does not need to do anything since the connect will
> raise EINTR.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>




From edream at tds.net  Sat Mar  2 13:13:40 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:13:40 GMT
Subject: C/C++ to Python translater
References: <5e8bd451.0203011049.5d12d3a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C811653.871C5BEF@tds.net>

kevin parks wrote:
> 
> Is there a translator to automatically port (rewrite) code snippets
> from C or C++ to Python? 

leo.py contains a script called c2py.py that I have used to translate
all my C++ code to Python.  It does about 80% of the work and is mostly
intended to be run from inside Leo.  IIRC there is another entry in
c2py.py script to translate "exterior" files and this can be run from
idle, say.  Munging source to Python is actually remarkably easy to do. 

You can download leo.py v1.0 at:

  http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458

One of these days I'll get around to cleaning it up and making a proper
distribution of it.  Let me know if you have problems with c2py: it will
help me clean up the rough edges.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From andy at reportlab.com  Fri Mar  8 11:53:05 2002
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:53:05 GMT
Subject: Autodiscovery of proxy settings from a python script
Message-ID: <R%5i8.1615$K%4.11598019@news-text.cableinet.net>

A firm we are working with want to demonstrate some Python web services
software, which will connect from a windows desktop to a known server on the
internet.  It is a safe bet that the demos will be given behind firewalls,
but that the customers will be able to browse the web from either IE or
Netscape.  The problem is that both the guys giving the demos and the
potential customers will not be very technical, and saying "what's your
proxy server settings" will likely spark fear, paralysis and wasted visits
:-)  If they have a locked down IE distribution, the settings will just say
"auto detect" and the salesman won't be wiser.

Ideally I'd like a script that knew where IE and Netscape and a few other
packages kept their proxy settings, and also know about the most common
auto-discovery protocols.  It could try various things in succession until
it made a comnnection, or gave up and asked.  The salesmen could email a
small program to the client and say "try this" ahead of time and would at
least know what to expect.  We're already committed to installing python and
COM so can use just about any tools needed.

Has anyone done this before?  Any suggestions how to go about it?


Best regards,

Andy Robinson
ReportLab Inc.




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Tue Mar 12 05:27:25 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:27:25 +1100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet? <obligatory wink>
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCDD1@intrepid>
Message-ID: <3C8DD80D.F682FE0F@optushome.com.au>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > From: Tim Churches [SMTP:tchur at optushome.com.au]
> >
> > So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
> > Herald - see
> > http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html
> 
> Not with those of us who use the Win32all package which he has so generously
> donated to the community, no. <wink>

Yes, indeed.

> 
> I-know-you-were-joking-but-a-<wink>-wouldn't-have-been-out-of-place-ly y'rs,

Hey, I was only quoting the (somewhat sensationalist) headline from the
newspaper story...

Tim C

> Simon Brunning
> sbrunning at fuckmicrosoft.com
I suppose we all have to get our jollies somehow...



From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 08:18:26 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:18:26 +0100
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122> <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020324081829.193$iP@news.newsreader.com>

"Jose Rivera" escribi?
> The URL calculated :
>
>
http://avisos.elnorte.com/casa_venta_result.asp?fotos=0&Order=order+by+colo
nia&Precio_i=-1&Presentacion=Tabla&Precio_f=-1&PLANTAS=0&pagina=1&id_inmueb
le=3&dia=&RECAMARAS=0&constr_f=-1&COLONIA=0&BANOS=0&Tipo=CASAS&Constr_i=-1&
Terreno_i=-1&Terreno_f=-1&zona=0
>
> works on my PC, try it, and let's see whats wrong.
That page uses DHTML a lot. urlopen works as expected, you get
the same result if you use IE with max security for avisos.elnorte.com
You want to fix this problem first studying the html source of the
page deeply.

> Does anyone have an idea of how I can save it to a DataBase?
Polish the page with HTML Tidy first, then strip all script code tags,
parse the resulting HTML to catch the rows you're interested in
and save them into a DB.

> Is there a better way?
A better way of what? I missed the original post.

Regards,
-Hernan




From theller at python.net  Fri Mar  1 07:54:28 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:54:28 +0100
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com> <gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a5ntnn$8t3dn$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3C7F6765.94A82394 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen
> <peter at engcorp.com> writes
> .....
> >
> >I'm pretty sure the last time I checked the PROGRA~1 convention still
> >worked on WinNT.  Are you sure this doesn't work on Win2K as well?
> >They're supposed to be the same thing, no?
> >
> >-Peter
> I'm sure it does and I guess that Program Files will always match as
> it's often the first. On the other hand working with a path name
> obtained from an execution path there's no guarantee I can always do the
> correct conversion by assuming ~1, some end up as ~2 etc.
>
> Is there a proper way to get the 8.3 name?

>>> import win32api
>>> win32api.FindFiles(r"c:\Program Files")
[(49, <PyTime:10/5/2000 9:34:56 AM>, <PyTime:3/1/2002 12:42:28 PM>, <PyTime:2/26/2002 3:38:17 PM>, 0, 0, 100, 1244528, '
Program Files', 'PROGRA~1')]
>>> win32api.FindFiles(r"c:\Program Files")[0][-1]
'PROGRA~1'

Thomas




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Mar  4 10:39:47 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:39:47 -0500
Subject: is their any limit on the size of the data passed to a progra         m via popen2?
References: <mailman.1014421598.16958.python-list@python.org> <3C77AE2E.3020301@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <1yMg8.308697$n73.10333528@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"husam" <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in message
news:3C77AE2E.3020301 at student.kun.nl...
> Gustavo Cordova wrote:
>
> > That doing a read() on pipes hangs, so you have to
> > define a timeout or something, so that you can take
> > control back.
> >
> > But I dinnae kno how ta do such a thang.
> >
> > :-/
> >
> > -gus
> >
> > pd: I *think* it was jeff.
> >
> >
>
> Ya, I red that one. But, now the problem is that running the code
> succefully really depends on the number of the files passed to the
> application in one "popen2" session. I found that the number of the
> files must not exceed 250. I worked around this by splitting the 10000
> files into 50 lists each of them contains 200 files and for each list
> opening a "popen2" session and close it at the end in a "for" loop. Now
> the code works fine. I have searched the internet for informations
> related to the size of the pipe and how to modify it, but I found
> nothing except "select.select()". At the moment I really don't have time
> to implement this.
>
> any way, thanks for the contribution.
>
I'm coming in to this conversation a little late, but is there a possibilty
that you could actually transmit the contents of multiple files via a single
stream, allowing you to feed files into the popen()'d subprocesses as each
consumes input? This might save a lot a process- and file-creation overhead
if all you really need is the computaional output. You might use a netstring
representation, for example.

Even if all the above is true, don't be surprised to hit hard limits on
other annoying resources like threads-per-process or processes per subgroup.

That "250", by they way? Might it be 254 or 255, really? Or possibly
(255-number of other command line arguments)? This would be a typical result
of some element of the pipeline limiting the length  of the argument vector
so a byte could be used to select each element. So, you are probably the
victim of thoughtless design, or of some historical features of the code you
use.

Even so there are always limitations, whether it's long arithmetic slowdown
or inappropriate representation, and TheOnlyWayForward is to
MercilesslyRefactor. Every environment has limits, and sometimes it's a
question of learning what limits you can live with. Onward and downward, as
the Pascal standardization committee might have declared.

wondering-what-happened-to-tony-addyman-ly y'rs  - steve
--
Consulting, training, speaking: http://www.holdenweb.com/
Author, Python Web Programming: http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/

"This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it
intersects with useful practice."  Aahz Maruch on c.l.py






From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Mar 20 09:27:50 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:27:50 -0300
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
In-Reply-To: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com>
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20020320112750.A1368@ibook.distro.conectiva>

Hi Dale!

[...]
> import sys
> sys.path.append("x:\\whereever")
> from wibbleModule import wibble
> wibs = wibble(args)

You could save this in a file and execute it with "python -i file.py".

[...]
> Now, I haven't figured out a way of continueing past this point
> without quiting and starting from scratch because there appears to be
> no way to get Python to reload a module. The reload() function doesn't
> do it.

It seems to work here:

[niemeyer at ibook niemeyer]$ echo 'a = 1' > mod.py
>>> import mod
>>> mod.a
1

[niemeyer at ibook niemeyer]$ echo 'a = 2' > mod.py
>>> reload(mod)
<module 'mod' from 'mod.py'>
>>> mod.a
2

> How do others go about interactively debugging large Python OO-based
> systems?

Have you looked at pdb?

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From thomas at gatsoft.no  Fri Mar 15 09:33:19 2002
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:33:19 GMT
Subject: Connecting to a Gnutella-network
Message-ID: <PCnk8.84$5Kn.171039232@news.telia.no>

Hi,

I've looked at the Gnutella Protocol, v.0.4, and wondered about trying to
create an implementation in python. I'm a newbie when it comes to this sort
of thing, but have created several simple to complex server types of
applications using SocketServer and its friends like BaseHTTPServer etc.

Has anybody tried to do this before? Does anybody have pointers for newbies
like me in such a project ( how to start, how to connect to nodes on a
gnutella network etc. )

I'll be glad for any pointers you might have.

Best regards,
Thomas




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar 13 12:46:45 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:46:45 -0800
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-9A324E.09464513032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <873cz44ea8.fsf at bunty.ruud.org>,
 ruud de rooij <*@spam.ruud.org> wrote:

> perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
> (analogous to dictionaries).

Perhaps we should use
    for (i,x) in list.iteritems(): ...
(analogous to dictionaries) instead of PEP 279's indexed(list).

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From jlh at cox.net  Wed Mar  6 23:56:23 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 04:56:23 GMT
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net> <mailman.1015473913.28082.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XpCh8.848$kg2.73639@news1.east.cox.net>

"Geoff Gerrietts" <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015473913.28082.python-list at python.org...
[...snip..]
> Maybe a slight switch in topic: if the logical constructs are
> disorienting, how would we approach instruction? Hello World seems to
> go okay, right? (Do we have anything like a consensus from this?) But
> then where do we go? More examples?
With respect to teaching in python....

After Hello World would be Echo.
Echo is simply a single iteration of raw_input then print.  Now the student
interact with their code.  Teaching has always gone from Hello to If/Then
the true amazement of computers for pristine newbies is interaction. So
Echo.py would be the next step and one that would be built on for a few
iterations as control structures and type conversion and formatting were
introduced.  At every step an example that interacts with the user is
presented.

Next would be an example This.py.  The concept of the If/then statement is
presented.  Else is ignored for now.  The program would echo input that
matched the If statement otherwise it would output nothing.
and so on...

> I'm not sure what my goal is here, but it seems like we started with
> an idea on how we could make computer programming more accessible for
> everyone, including those whose relationship with logical thought can
> only be described as "dysfunctional", but starting with those who are
> at least making occassional sallies at the task of learning.

> So where do we go next? If not "if", then what? Or do we go ahead with
> "if" and "else", but abuse it with lots of examples?

> Looking back at the pieces of pedagogical literature I've been exposed
> to, I'm led to believe that learning (at least in children) occurs in
> response to encountered frustrations with the limits of the current
> knowledge base. Can we assemble something that looks like a cooked
> series of examples or sample problems that exploit this?
I think that we can, if we start by jumping from Hello World to another
equally simple example such as Echo.
I've suggested a beginning.  It should introduce only one or two new things
at a time.  Always looking to "shy away" from exceptions.  The concept of
over-generalization that can be refined as the examples progress.

Would you be interested in pursuing this further?
> --G.
>
> --
> Geoff Gerrietts             <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
>   I AM YOUR KING! BOW BEFORE ME, PEASANT!   -- Dogbert
>




From cliechti at gmx.net  Sun Mar 31 17:11:50 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 23:11:50 +0100
Subject: Replace high-bit characters in file.
References: <M1Kp8.3021$Ow4.4334@news2.bredband.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91E2EC23DF630cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Mikke M." <plopp at dummyaddress.doh> wrote in 
news:M1Kp8.3021$Ow4.4334 at news2.bredband.com:
> I need a script that replaces national characters in a (dBase)file.
> 
> The original file is encoded in Latin-1 but I need it to be in CP850
> instead.

you can do that with the unicode support:
>>> unicode("text to convert","latin-1").encode("cp850")

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar  4 04:38:18 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 01:38:18 -0800
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015231327.3586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xy9h8pt9x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> A lot of this speculation should have been cut short by my first msg.
> 
> Yes, something changed in 2.2; follow the referenced link:
> 
> http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=496104
> 
> For the rest of it, it looks like the "1e-200**2 raises OverflowError"
> glitch is unique to platforms using glibc.  What isn't clear is whether it's
> dependent on which version of glibc, or on whether Python is linked
> with -lieee, or both.

I get the OverflowError under Red Hat 7.2 with the default Python 2.2 
build, which appears to not use -lieee.  The configure script's
test for __fpu_control in -lieee appears to never be run when
you type "configure".  I manually put "-lieee" into the LIBS=...
line in the makefile and rebuilt.  Now I get:

    [phr at localhost Python-2-2]$ ./python
    Python 2.2 (#2, Mar  4 2002, 01:31:37)
    [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> 1e-200**2
    0.0

so the behavior changes with -lieee.

> Unfortunately, the C standard (neither one) isn't a lick of help here --
> error reporting from C math functions is a x-platform crapshoot.

That seems to me to be a deficiency in the C standard--IEEE 754
defines these different error modes because they're all important, and
any high level language that claims to be good for serious numerics
should give precise control over the error modes.


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar  4 21:17:03 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:17:03 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015291748.15114.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-0AB749.18170304032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015291748.15114.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> [David Eppstein]
> > The proposal is to extend it to
> > also include three-way comparisons.
> 
> And, I assume, you mean three-way comparisons that are restricted to using
> certain combinations of "< <= > =>"?

Yes.  Both comparisons must be in ["<", "<="], or both comparisons must 
be in [">", ">="].


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Tue Mar 26 02:08:35 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:08:35 GMT
Subject: Python, CGI and PGP
References: <3c9fbf57@peer1.news.newnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a7p6pj$4mp$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <3c9fbf57 at peer1.news.newnet.co.uk>, Phil Edwards wrote:

> I'm trying to get a CGI app working that is supposed to be able to produce 
> PGP signed messages. The command line equivalent of what I'm trying to do 
> in the CGI script would be:

> /usr/local/bin/pgp -z mypassphrase -sta -f < /tmp/sometext.txt > 
> /tmp/sometext.pgp 2>/dev/null

> This works fine both at the CLI and in a bash script, and produces a text 
> file with the '-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----' stuff at the top and the 
> PGP signature stuff at the bottom.

> My recent attempts at getting this to work in the CGI script have been to 
> simply run the same command as above, but using either command.getoutput or 
> os.system from within Python. Doing this, I get the PGP signature block 
> that I would normally expect to see at the end of the message, but nothing 
> else. I suspect that the problem is down to the different execution 
> environment which PGP sees when it's being run within my CGI script, but 
> I've not been able to find anything in the PGP docs that has helped.

> I've done some research into this on the 'net, but I haven't been able to 
> find any recent references to PGP usage within Python. Some guys were 
> prototyping a PGP interface for Python 1.2 back in 1995, but there doesn't 
> seem to have been any further work done since then. Is there currently a 
> PGP module available anywhere? If not, can anybody point me in the 
> direction of a site that is using PGP and Python?

> FYI, my version of Python is 2.1, and my PGP version is 2.6.3 (don't ask - 
> just don't, that's all...you'll just start me thinking about it all over 
> again, and I'll probably start to hyperventilate...)

> Phil Edwards

 How are you feeding "sometext.txt" into the process in your CGI
 script?  Why now show us the actual fragment of code that you're
 attempting to use?

 When it comes to environmental issues (in programming) it's generally
 pretty easy to replace a target program with a wrapper script like
 so:

 	mv $ORIGINAL_BINARY $ORGINAL_BINARY.wrapped
	cat > $ORIGINAL_BINARY <<WRAPPER_SCRIPT
	#!/bin/sh
	printenv > /tmp/$(basename $0).$$
	. /some/where/$(basename $0).env
	exec $0.wrapped "$@"
	WRAPPER_SCRIPT
	chmod +x $ORIGINAL_BINARY

 ... this shell code is relatively terse (as well as concise) so 
 I'll highlight some of it's finer points in english.

 Rename the original binary (pgp in your case) to add a ".wrapped"
 extension (or whatever).  Put a new shell script in its place.
 The shell script will print the environment in which it is running
 into a temporary file (in this case a file named after the original
 binary with a PID (process ID number) as its extension).  Then the
 script will "source" (read-in and execute, as in the shell's equivalent
 of #include) another script from "/some/where/", that will have an
 environment that you've capture from a manual CLI execution, and 
 reformatted slightly as appropriate.  Be sure to add "export" commands
 to each of the shell variables that you have listed in ...
 whatever.env).  Finally you're wrapper script can exec the original
 (wrapped) binary with the original argument list.  Note that "$@"
 is a magic psuedo-variable in descendents of the Bourne shell
 (including bash, ksh and zsh) that will include all of the positional
 argument in such a way that the original argument separation (usually
 done with quoting and \ escaping) will be preserved). It must be 
 spelled exactly as shown (double-quote, dollar sign, at sign,
 double-quote) in order to have these properties.  Note also that the
 $(...) command substitution syntax might not be recognized by some 
 ancient versions of the Bourne shell; Heck! the "$@" might not work
 in some very old versions of sh --- though they both work in ash, which
 is about the most minimal modern Bourne shell).

 It should be obvious that you can do other almost arbitrary debugging
 work in this script.  For example you could cat your input to a 
 temp file (from a CGI POST) and end your script with an exec that
 would redirect from that input file; or you could have your script
 do a "while ! [ -f "/tmp/pauseflag.$$" ]; do sleep 1; done
 to allow you to set up an strace (Linux system call tracer) to watch
 it (with the -p PID option).  (Basically it would allow you to have
 the program "pause" until you could attach a trace utility to it; 
 then you'd touch the flag file and see what it was doing afterwards).
 Alternatively you might exec an strace -o .... program

 If you are reasonably persistent and a little clever you should be able
 to track down any problem that could be in your process environment
 using these techniques.  Other factors, especially permissions issues,
 can be harder to isolate and resolve; but these troubleshooting
 technique can still help with many of those.  As hinted, I find that
 strace and ltrace can be particularly informative under a Linux 
 environment.  Of course you can also find quite a bit of help in your
 system logging facilities (syslog) and your web server's logs.  With
 Apache it's also possible run a single, non-forking, instance of your
 web server process (httpd) using the -X option.  Using that with 
 strace's -f (follow) it's possible to examine how your CGI script is
 getting spawned by the web daemon.  This could also reveal some things
 that might not be evident from your wrapper script (though those are
 unlikely to interfere with your target's operations).




From nospam at [127.0.0.1]  Fri Mar 15 13:37:53 2002
From: nospam at [127.0.0.1] (Chris)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:37:53 +0000
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>
 <oa5k8.27154$lM.25760@news2.bloor.is> <a6r6tq$47e$1@usenet.otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <fmUpYHBB+jk8EwZf@[127.0.0.1]>

In article <a6r6tq$47e$1 at usenet.otenet.gr>, Kaklis Antonis 
<antoni3 at otenet.gr> writes
>1) "Learning Python" --Mark Lutz & David Ascher
>     Little old (covers Python1.5.2), but excellent for a begginer
>2) "Core Python Programming" --Wesley J.Chun
>     Details the core Python fundamentals and much more
>3) And of course the Python tutorial
>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/
>4)"How to think like a computer scientist in Python
>      http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/


Thank you.
I downloaded number 4.
However, it is in a strange form (Tex) for a windows user.
Is it any use to me in that form?
And can it be obtained in any other form?
(It does look good.)
-- 
Chris


From MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de  Sun Mar 24 07:07:04 2002
From: MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de (maximilianscherr)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:07:04 -0000
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
Message-ID: <a7kfh8+9fvn@eGroups.com>

hi,

Is there any good tutorial for creating advanced client/server apps
(like online games) out there? i tried to make one 2 times, and both 
did not really work well, the first try had problems with 
communcications between the client threads, the second one had 
problems with connecting at all!!!

thanks,

Max




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 21:51:29 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:51:29 -0700
Subject: yenc encoding?
References: <3c9b8743.23437968@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <a7jf17$fb$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Gerson Kurz wrote:

> Does someone work on a yenc-encoder/decoder for python? Both "base64"
> and "binascii" are there in the python standard library, after all.
> 
> Just wondering: Should an implementation for a new encoding follow the
> base64-model (that is, have four funcs encode, encodes, decode,
> decodes) or the binascii-modell (a2b_yenc,b2a_yenc) or something
> totally different altogether?

You might want to take a look at

http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/yenc.html

The guy seems to make very valid points.

Cheers,

f


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Mar 14 06:52:47 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 11:52:47 GMT
Subject: PEP 2, Procedure for Adding New Modules
References: <a6cssr$dn8$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <a6d3ih$3ne$1@panix2.panix.com> <a6i4o7$jd0$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <a6ifgb$gnd$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6q2uf$kjo$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <a6i4o7$jd0$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl>,
> Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote:
>>Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The maintainers also possess primary responsibility for determining
>>> whether bugfixes should be backported to previous Python releases as
>>> discussed in PEP 6.
>>
>>Thanks; I'm adding some phrases on this to PEP 2. PEP 6 claims it's a
>>'draft' PEP by the way, what is its status?

> Looking at the status of other PEPs, it should be "Active", I think.  I'm
> cc'ing Barry on this to get his opinion.

Mine's in there now though, which is set to 'draft'; I mean, it shouldn't
become active just because it's in the list. But I assume it was discussed
and approved. Which is good as my PEP refers to yours. Now I only need
to go advocate for it on python-dev. :)

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 16:57:29 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:57:29 +0000
Subject: Replacing excel: but with what ?
References: <3C9CCF6C.F1099089@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <ofup9uk4im0vdn12jiuq9mblnatir132cr@4ax.com>

I would still recommend wxPython. It is a top bit of software.

Get youself on the mailing list and if you experience problems I am
confident that it will get sorted there.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 22:33:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:33:57 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <20020325113323.A26319@glacier.arctrix.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEJLOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017100367.4105.python-list@python.org>  <3C9FC8AD.CD82FEA0@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017154481.3873.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA13DA5.DF1C3C7C@engcorp.com>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> 
> >Peter Hansen:
> > >   Neil
> > >
> > > PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code
> >
> > If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.
> >
> > And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.
> >
> > -objectifying-tim-ly yr's,
> > Peter
> 
> Tisk tisk.  Only half of the apologising you do for the other person.
> The other half you do for yourself.

Not sure I understand the sentiment, but perhaps it would have
helped you if I included an explicit smiley?  That _was_ a joke.
Happily, I think from Tim's reply he understood and took it that way.
(The reference to Asimov might be obscure to some.  Sorry.)

Thanks for the gentle advice though. :)

-Peter


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Mar 11 22:07:24 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 19:07:24 -0800
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
References: <mailman.1015887440.17682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203111907.12122c8b@posting.google.com>

Jeff Bauer <jbauer at rubic.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015887440.17682.python-list at python.org>...
> NormalDate 1.2 is available from:
> 
> http://starship.python.net/crew/jbauer/normaldate/
> 

I was curious to find the magic number 1582 in the source code, in a
method where it is testing for a valid date:

if year == 1582 and month == 10 and day > 4 and day < 15:
    return 0  # special case of 10 days dropped: Oct 5-14, 1582
 
To make some sense of reported historical dates, one needs to guess
based on the location, origin and mind-set of the reporter. The
introduction of the Gregorian calendar was spread over 1582-1587 in
Roman-Catholic-influenced regions, 1700-1701 in some
Protestant-influenced regions and 1752-1753 in others (including
England and its then colonies) -- and that's just some of Europe.
Greece didn't change until 1924. Germany, the Netherlands, and
Switzerland split along religious lines into the 1582+ group and the
1700+ group. Alaska changed in 1867 upon purchase from Russia -- the
then USSR changed in 1918; make your own deductions about other states
like Louisiana and Texas. There's even a story that the date of
introduction in Sweden varied by parish!

Not all the countries that changed in 1582 omitted the same range of
dates.

The warp in the calendar that is used by the above code is only
correct (under some limited definition of "correct") for the areas
then defined as part of Rome, Italy, Portugal, Spain & Poland.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 08:51:53 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:51:53 -0500
Subject: Standalone CGI Server - Question for Group
References: <67abb823.0203281729.3b1b4db7@posting.google.com> <slrnaa7gc7.26a.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3CA3D86A.7080806@yahoo.com> <67abb823.0203290500.3a3a7da1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ok_o8.17224$Ou.13133@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Sloth" <mt_horeb at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:67abb823.0203290500.3a3a7da1 at posting.google.com...
> Thanks for the feedback re. Apache.  I appreciate it!
>
> The reason that I'd like to find a native Python script is as follows:
> I started to build a proof of concept Web app for a company that
> queried a customer database and generated search results.  The company
> loved it and wanted to have me create a few "pilots" for salespeople.
> If I can simply have them install Python and install an additional
> module or two, it would be easier than asking non-technical sales
> folks to also install Apache.
>
> I agree, Apache is very painless.  On the other hand, less is more in
> this scenario and, frankly, now I'm just being stubborn and trying to
> get Python to act as its own CGI server.  Has anyone had luck making
> this work in a Window 9x
> environment?
>
CGIHTTPServer worked fine for me once the standard distribution included the
option of using spawn() rather than fork() to start the CGIs. Are you using
an older version of Python?

If you are looking for pure-Python web server code, there's oodles of it in
the download at http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp - this is the code from
"Python Web Programming", all of which has run on Win 98.

regards
 Steve






From wurmy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 00:50:14 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:50:14 GMT
Subject: python name spaces
References: <m3n0xfontm.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C45F2.E0F6D9EC@earthlink.net>

Daniel Ortmann wrote:

> I must admit I am frustrated by Python's seeming lack of powerful name
> space support.  For example, in Perl I can do something like this,
> 
>     our $b = "...b";
> 
>     {
>         my $a = "...a";
>         our $f = sub { print $a, "\n" };
>         our $g = sub { $a = "foo" }
>     }
> 
>     $f->()
>     $g->()
> 
>     # prints ...a, followed by foo.
>     # the "$a" variable is ONLY seen by the unnamed $f and $g
>     # subroutines.

I don't know much about Perl, but this seems a bit like a closure
like Lisp and Scheme have them. 

Python namespaces don't work like this. If you want a variable
to be only visible by a few functions, and shared by those
functions, the Pythonic solution would be, writing a class.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:34:57 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:34:57 -0500
Subject: syntax to search ascii text file for unknown duplicate phone numbers 
 ([2LJ2Ud5JyrXK+luOVRQpl
References: <KJ0Z6RVH37340.2261805556@anonymous.poster>
Message-ID: <3C9FC231.564437C9@engcorp.com>

Generic Poster wrote:
> 
> vdWl+CWxdAtPuqZiM2EYPotKH?
>          one

The following script should print out everything that it
can about unknown duplicate phone numbers.  Usage is:

   python checkdup.py <filename>

The program will automatically adapt to all known input
formats.

------------cut--here----------------------------
# checkdup.py: Copyright 2002 Peter Hansen, All Rights Reserved

print "I don't know if there are duplicate phone numbers in that file"

-------------------------------------------------

If you want a program that actually knows what the duplicates are
and displays them, it will cost a little more...

-Peter


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Mar 11 02:10:51 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 23:10:51 -0800
Subject: Regular expressions newbie: something for templates
References: <idRi8.7723$eJ6.142517@news2.ulv.nextra.no> <mailman.1015801819.3967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203102310.4fef4787@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015801819.3967.python-list at python.org>...
> Thomas> "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
>     Thomas> and turn it into
>     Thomas> "This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s"
> 
> Give this a try:
> 
>     >>> import re
>     >>> s = "This is the test $var1$ and this is $var2$"
>     >>> re.sub(r"\$([a-zA-Z_0-9]+)\$", r"%(\1)s", s)
>     'This is the test %(var1)s and this is %(var2)s'

The truly paranoid may prefer this:

re.sub(r"\$([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_0-9]*)\$", r"%(\1)s", s)


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Mar 30 03:09:53 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Data type ideas
In-Reply-To: <004701c1d7b2$dbbf9180$a2a1d6d1@x9k7y2>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020330000953.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> So what next?  Any ideas that I can use?  
> 

look into pickles.  Act like dictionaries but live on the hard drive.



From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Mon Mar 25 15:40:42 2002
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:40:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxPython install problems on linux
References: <da8db604.0203242126.267ab032@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9v2qa.d4b.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On 24 Mar 2002 21:26:00 -0800, hejduk <claxtonr at beer.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm having a problem installing wxPython on linux (Slak 8). I have
> all the necesarry prerequisites (wxGTK, python etc).

 You need the GTK+ [headers] as well.

 HTH,
VZ
-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From nixdisciplenews at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 20 23:13:18 2002
From: nixdisciplenews at hotmail.com (Felix)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:13:18 -0500
Subject: Python & IRC
Message-ID: <k0dm8.134855$Nn6.6767109@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Greetings everyone,

                                     My question is this i like python and i
want to start out and learn most of the basics before proceeding into more
complex scripts. Now i love chatting learning new things in irc but it is
hard as hell to find a irc client that is windows compatiable well windows
2000 professional compatiable irc client that will allow me to use python as
a scripting language. If anyone has experience in scripting in irc and would
like to point me in the right direction besides pointing toward dircchat.com
or linux your help would be greatly appreciated.

    The only reason why i am looking for a stable fully functional client is
because i would like to use python as a language in windows and linux
because soon i will be adding red hat 7.2 to my new system.





From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 21:56:52 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 04:56:52 +0200
Subject: long integers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203312121140.1246-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203312121140.1246-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20020401025652.GG333@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Michael Hall <olc at ninti.com> [2002-03-31 21:38 +0930]:
> I'm using Python 1.5.2 and am having trouble with long integers when I
> pull data out of a MySQL database using MySQLdb. When I retrieve a
> numeric value from a field with an `int' data type, the value has an `L'
> stuck on the end.

What you experience is that if you print a Python long, an 'L' is added to the
number to show that it is really a long. AFAIK you get the 'L' added for str
and repr in 1.5.2, while it only gets added for repr in later versions.

> In one script, I worked around this by stripping the L off with:
> 
> var = numeric_id # ("2L")
> var = var[:-1]
> print var
> >> 2
> 
> In this case, numeric_id was passed through a hidden field in an HTML
> form. But this doesn't work in another script for some reason, where
> the value is passed straight from a database query.

Ok, maybe this transcript will show what's really going on here:

lilith#	mysql gerhard
mysql> describe test;
+-------+-------------+------+-----+---------+----------------+
| Field | Type        | Null | Key | Default | Extra          |
+-------+-------------+------+-----+---------+----------------+
| id    | int(11)     |      | PRI | NULL    | auto_increment |
| name  | varchar(20) | YES  |     | NULL    |                |
| age   | int(11)     | YES  |     | NULL    |                |
+-------+-------------+------+-----+---------+----------------+
3 rows in set (0.01 sec)

mysql> select * from test;
+----+------+------+
| id | name | age  |
+----+------+------+
|  1 | Joe  |   27 |
+----+------+------+
1 row in set (0.00 sec)

mysql> Bye
lilith#	python1.5
Python 1.5.2 (#11, Apr  1 2002, 04:40:28)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD on freebsd4
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import MySQLdb
>>> db = MySQL.db.connect(db="gerhard")
>>> cursor = db.cursor()
>>> cursor.execute("select * from test")
1L
>>> result = cursor.fetchone()
>>> result
(1L, 'Joe', 27L)
>>> map(type, result) # Show the types for each item in the tuple
[<type 'long int'>, <type 'string'>, <type 'long int'>]
>>> id, name, age = result
>>> age # will invoke repr
27L
>>> str(age)
'27L'
>>> repr(age)
'27L'
>>> def numbertostring(i):
...   # will work for int *and* long
...   s = str(i)
...   if s[-1:] == 'L':
...     s = s[:-1]
...   return s
... 
>>> numbertostring(age)
'27'

> I tried converting the data type from number to string, but that doesn't work
> either:
> 
> var = result[0] # ("2L")

type(var) is long here. str and repr return "2L".

> var = 'var[:-1]'

You're binding the literal string 'var[:-1]' to the name var here, no
conversion going on. To convert a long to a string in Python 2.x, simply use
str, in 1.5.2, a function like my "numbertostring" will work.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.2 ?C      Wind: 1.3 m/s



From mcherm at destiny.com  Mon Mar 25 17:42:19 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:42:19 -0500
Subject: Indentation problem
Message-ID: <3C9FA7CB.8000509@destiny.com>

> Why I would like to put [end-of-block markers] in [the Python language]?
> 1/ Because it's almost impossible to paste python code with ident = n 
> spaces to another code with indent = m spaces
> This kind of examples occurs more and more and you can indent the code 
> by hand when it's 10 lines of codes, but not 1000 code lines.
> It prevents the re-use of code pieces.

Actually, copying and pasting 1000 lines of code prevents re-use of 
code. Even if it's just 10 lines that you're copying and pasting, I 
recommend trying to Refactor so that both places where the code is 
needed can share the same subroutine or helper class.

-- Michael Chermside




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar  7 20:00:42 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:00:42 -0500
Subject: marcos and .pyc
References: <mailman.1015542734.19085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <K2Uh8.391140$n73.12286352@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"dskhdskf dsfhs" <perryrain at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015542734.19085.python-list at python.org...
>
>
> Is there a feature in the basic python for doing inline marcos (similar to
> the ones found in C and C++)? Also is there a way to specify where .pyc
> files are to be deposited?
>
> Chris
>
Imelda Macros was the one with all those shoes, right?

regards
 Steve






From ozren_lasic at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 13:30:35 2002
From: ozren_lasic at yahoo.com (Ozren Lasic)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 10:30:35 -0800
Subject: Why KeyError ???
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com> <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <7xvgcabcti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7dee885c.0203061030.5626d5e@posting.google.com>

Sorry, but I didn't get it.
Maybe you can explain me on another example??

	a = ['abcde', '\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7']
	b = map(lambda x: unicode(x, 'cp1250'), a)
	c = {}
	c[a[0]] = 0 # string
	c[b[0]]     # unicode
0
	c[a[1]] = 1 # string
	c[b[1]]     # unicode
KeyError
	c[b[0]] = 2 # string
	c[b[1]] = 3 # unicode
	c.keys() # no u'abcde' !! why ??
[u'\u0161\u0111\u010d\u0107\u017e', 'abcde', '\xe7\xd0\x9f\x86\xa7']
        c.vaules()
[3, 2, 1]

Thanks !!


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 02:17:33 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Pérez)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:17:33 -0700
Subject: sorting
References: <3c7e3d12_7@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <a5n9uh$iqg$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

"Jeff McComas" <jmackd1 at yahoo.com> wrote

> As a newbie i find the python scripting language very interesting and
useful.
> I am trying to write a script that will search a .txt file and have the
script
> tell me how many of the same numbers are in the .txt file. I know you can
do
> it with the f.count command but my problem is how can you do an input that
> makes the numbers strings? Or puts double quotes and a comma around a
number?

You've received a number of perfectly good suggestions so far, and they
illustrate nice and useful python programming techniques which you'll
benefit from learning. If you need to do this for production code though, I
suggest you look into Numerical python for handling large data arrays, and
you may want to use a convenient histogram builder from the Scientific
python family:  http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/ Konrad's code is
very good and well tested. With it, building a histogram for a large data
file is one line of code.

There's nothing wrong with your approach while you learn, I just wanted to
point you in the direction of production-quality resources for when you need
them.

Enjoy python!

f.




From beppu at ax9.org  Mon Mar 11 13:21:50 2002
From: beppu at ax9.org (John Beppu)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:21:50 -0800
Subject: Python Equivalent of Perl's Safe module?
In-Reply-To: <a6gtqb.3vsdg33.1@kserver.org>
References: <mailman.1015833318.19894.python-list@python.org> <a6gtqb.3vsdg33.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <20020311182150.GA30978@Ax9.org>

[  date  ] 2002/03/11 | Monday | 12:30 AM
[ author ] Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> 

> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-Bastion.html
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-rexec.html

Thanks Jason && Sheila!




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 19:09:05 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:09:05 -0800
Subject: Windows GUI - which way?
References: <a5k8t9$hrp$1@news.efn.org> <3C7EC855.5844B19F@engcorp.com> <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203021308260.14311-100000@garcia.efn.org> <3C83D003.411FEE3F@ccvcorp.com> <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203041208050.11237-100000@garcia.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C840CA1.5A879360@ccvcorp.com>


Spencer Ernest Doidge wrote:

> Thank you, Jeff.
> It happens that I want to do all this with scripts that are all under my
> control, so there is a lot of good news here in your answer.
> One further question: Should the two processes communicate with each other
> via mmap?

If you're controlling the scripts yourself, then you're probably better off using
threads rather than subprocesses.  In that case, there's no need to use mmap --
Queue.Queue will likely do everything that you need, and it's very easy to use.  Each
thread gets handed an input queue and an output queue when it's created.  It can
periodically check the input queue for any messages from the main thread, and can put
output messages in the output queue (which the main thread then retrieves and handles
appropriately).  What constitutes a "message" is entirely up to you -- it can be any
Python object.  For simple cases, it could be a string or an integer, which the thread
maps to some particular action (like aborting).  For more complex cases, it would
likely be an instance object, whose attributes carry whatever information you want to
convey.  (In my latest use of queues, the message object has a "command" attribute,
which is essentially the name of a method to call, and other attributes of the object
map to parameters for that method.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar  7 05:14:13 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 10:14:13 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:00:56 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

>
>
>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> >Making Python as gibberish as Perl is. And all that only to
>> >have Windows path be written without double-\
>> Not 'only'. I said 'also' ;-)  Perhaps my choice of '|' delimiter triggered
>> your 'gibberish as Perl' detector?
>>
>> I could have written
>>
>>     q'###'c:\foo\bar\###
>> or
>>     q'[quoting delimiter]'c:\foo\bar\[quoting delimiter]
>>
>> just as well for this one.
>
>I still don't like it.  It's very difficult for me to see at a glance, what's part of
>the string and what is part of the delimiter, especially with the leading delimiter
>being quoted and the trailing one not quoted.  It looks unbalanced, it looks ungainly,
>and, to me, it just plain looks ugly.  I'd expect the above example to be equivalent to
>"'c:\\foo\\bar\\", with a leading mismatched single-quote... Your earlier example of

I understand the reaction, and I had considered defining the delimiter with the quotes
included. Whould you prefer the following?

    q'###'c:\foo\bar\'###'
or
    q'__quoting delimiter (incl quotes)__'c:\foo\bar\'__quoting delimiter (incl quotes)__'

But then I had to wonder whether using alternative quotes should imply the identical
usage at both ends w.r.t. the quote marks. I.e.,
    q'###'c:\foo\bar\'###'
    q"###"c:\foo\bar\"###"
    q'''###'''c:\foo\bar\'''###'''
    q"""###"""c:\foo\bar\"""###"""

All that is very cluttered and ugly. The major use of q' would probably actually be
in the Q' variation, and you could do the above pretty cleanly as:

    s = Q'
###'
c:\foo\bar\
###

Note that the delimiter is '\n###\n' in the above, so there is no \n in the
quoted string. I think this would bean easy pattern to use. To quote large unknown
things, you just choose something safe in place of ###, and if you don't want to
clip off the last \n, use Q'###' with no \n in front of the ###.

Note that you could use Q'"""' in place of the leading """ in existing code, to
allow you to put the first line of quoted text on the next line, without getting
a leading \n. I.e.,

    s = Q'"""'
First line.
...
Last line.
"""
# this comment immediately follows the quoting delimiter

is equivalent (assuming """ quotes ok) to

    s = r"""First line
...
Last line.
"""# this comment immediately follows the quoting delimiter

(i.e., you have to account for the delimiter actually being '"""\n' -- cf. M' below)


>cutting & pasting left me totally confused until  I spent a minute sorting through it.
>
A minute seems not too bad ;-) I.e., you wouldn't have to re-think it to use it as
a pattern for arbitrary quoting, I don't think. I only used the example text because
it was a heavy mix of quoting that you could not quote with triple or double quotes.
I thought q' and Q' to be pretty straight forward, once the syntax is grasped.

Can you think of a better way to quote an arbitrary sequence of characters within
a program text?

>At least to me, this seems totally unclear and totally nonintuitive.  It vastly

How does it seem if you go along the steps I took?:

 1. You have an arbitrary sequence of characters that are to be the value of a string.
 2. The sequence may contain both ''' and """ and may even end with \ and it must be unchanged.
 3. (2) Means you need a different delimiter than " or ' or """ or '''.
 4. Using a string as a delimiter (like MIME or <<XYZ in Perl & shells etc) seems viable, whereas
    no fixed delimeters can nest without counting and symmetry rules (which contradicts the
    definition of unrestricted text), so yet another thing like XML's <![CDATA[ ... ]]> won't do.
 5. Python has a way to define a string, but not a way to indicate that it should
    be used as a delimiter.
 6. (5) suggests using a Python string to define the delimiter string
 7. (5) suggests that the string-as-delimiter needs to be distinguished from others
 8. raw and unicode strings use a quote prefix to distinguish themselves from others
 9. (5)+(8) suggests using an alternate prefix to define string-as-delimiter: I chose q and Q for quote
10. The actual content string must start somewhere after the delimiter string is defined
11. The obvious place for (10) is the next character after the final quote of the _delimiter_ string.
12. Using an otherwise ordinary python raw string as a delimiter, means the quotes are not included
13. (12) means the postfixed delimiter does not have quotes around it, unless you alter the delimiter
    string definition rules to include them.
14. There is an ugliness in using triple quotes to quote multiple lines of text with no leading
    empty line, since = """the text of the first line
doesn't line up with the text of the following lines.
"""
15. I thought of Q' to allow lining up all quoted text lines in a block by using the first character
    following Q'xxx' as the last character of the delimiter (thus using it up and allowing the real
    quoted text to start on the next line). Alternatively, we could replace the second ' after Q
    and delimit the delimiter-string with ' on the front and \n at the end, including neither.
    Perhaps that would be cleaner for ordinary multiline quotes (and change the prefix to M)? E.g.,

    print M'XXX
First line.
Second line.
XXX


This would let you do the ugly windows path string even more cleanly:
    s =  M'
###
c:\foo\bar\
###

It's getting cleaner looking, don't you think?
(The delimiter is '\n###' above, from source "M'\n###\n<content>\n###" ).
(delim-string delimiters)-->                   ^     ^^

>multiplies the possibilities for writing hard-to-read code, while providing a real
I don't buy this, unless someone is being perverse in using it, or hasn't thought
of really clean examples yet ;-).

The point is to make the few places where it  IS needed simple and clean. The point
of posting it for discussion is to tease out better alternatives and/or usage patterns
that really address the problem(s) without declaring it/them a/() non-problem(s).
C'mon, how is the print M'XXX example above hard to digest? ;-)

    M'"""
This could be a doc-string with
no leading \n and looking as a
block the way it would print.
"""

>benefit in relatively few situations.  Considering how often triple-quotes appear in
>text files, I can only imagine this being needed when trying to programmatically
>generate Python code, which doesn't seem to be a terribly common task.  I'd prefer to
>find an alternate solution for the specific case of that task, which doesn't require
>changing the core language and creating so much potential for ugly code in every other
I don't see where an added capability, which does not alter interpretation of existing
code, has "potential for ugly code" -- unless someone is abusing the capability.

>task that can be done with Python.
>
How would you handle the problem as stated (cf. 1-15 above)?

I appreciate the comments. I think they have led me to better examples, and possible
variations on the original idea. If someone has better variations or alternative
better solutions, I'd like to hear them. Thank you.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cd.cd at wanadoo.fr  Fri Mar 29 13:44:45 2002
From: cd.cd at wanadoo.fr (Cyr)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:44:45 +0100
Subject: Problem with Tkinter
Message-ID: <a82cne$aef$1@wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I'm using python 2.2a4 installed in the directory :
"/opt/tools/predim/python/" on a SGI IRIX 6.4 station.
I've got a problem with Tkinter ; here is the message I get when launching
the script zozo.py :
(import Tkinter
 print "ok")

srv0023-cyrille-~/> python zozo.py

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "zozo.py", line 1, in ?
    import Tkinter
  File "/opt/tools/predim/python/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35,
in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: 1277322:/opt/tools/predim/python/bin/python: rld: Fatal
Error:Cannot Successfully map soname 'libtk8.3.so' under any of the
filenames
/usr/local/lib/libtk8.3.so:/usr/lib32/libtk8.3.so:/usr/lib32/internal/libtk8
.3.so:/lib32/libtk8.3.so:/opt/lib32/libtk8.3.so


Python has been installed on another station in a common directory and
Tkinter works great on the other station. But the Tk library isn't in a
common directory. On this station (srv0023), I only have Tcl/Tk 8.0 (and no
library in the directories mentioned in the error message). Is there any way
I can configure python so that it would use Tk 8.0 library on the station
but continue to use Tk 8.3 on the other station ? In fact, I wonder how I
can change the path search for the Tk library within python.

If anyone could help, I would greatly appreciate,

Regards,

Cyrille DUMORTIER

PS : forgive me for my broken english ;)








From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Mon Mar 25 15:32:39 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:32:39 GMT
Subject: avoid gui being blocked
Message-ID: <3c9f7f9f.40054515@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
let's say I have a Dialog (using wxPython) with a button.
This button starts a function thats takes some time to
return. During this time the GUI is not responding to 
any action of the user. How can I keep the GUI alive?
I tried starting "go" in a thread, but the only way I can
check for the thread being finished is either
thread.join()
or:
while thread.isAlive():
   pass

In both cases the GUI still doesn't respond. Is there something 
like a thread-exit event I could use. And how?
This should be an all day problem, but I don't find a hint.

Thanks in advance,
Marcus

#-------------------------------------------------------------------
from wxPython.wx import *
import time

class Frame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self,parent):
         ID_Button=wxNewId()
         wxFrame.__init__(self,parent,-1,"title")
         d=wxDialog(self,-1,"Dialog")
         wxButton(d,ID_Button,"Do it",wxDefaultPosition,
wxDefaultSize)
         EVT_BUTTON(d,ID_Button,self.go)
         d.ShowModal()

    def go(self,event):
        time.sleep(10)
        return 1

class Main(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame=Frame(NULL)
        return 1

app = Main(0)
app.MainLoop()


From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Mon Mar 18 11:37:06 2002
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 08:37:06 -0800
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>

Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote
> OK, I got the latest email module from the CVS. I installed it. I ran the
> tests for the module. Everything tested out fine.
> > I now eagerly get out my code from last night, that was causing the 
> 'int' has no attribute .lower
> error, and run it, hoping for different results.
> > No good. Same results. :(
> > File "E:\PYTHON\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\email\Message.py", line 285,
> in get
> name = name.lower()
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'

Here's the solution:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-March/090448.html

And here's SourceForge bug #491612 (closed now), which was filed to
report this very bug:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=491612&group_id=25568&atid=384678

Unfortunately, contrary to Oleg's assertion in c.l.py and Barry's in
his message added to the SF bug report, the CVS version of has *not*
been fixed.  It appears to me that this is a mere administrative
glitch.

The bug is a showstopper for the email package (it stopped my show, at
least), but the fix is quite simple.  Could we get it fixed before the
final release of Python 2.2.1?

Should someone resubmit the bug to mimelib's SourceForge bug tracker,
or will this message be enough?


From ajeru at gmx.net  Sun Mar  3 19:02:46 2002
From: ajeru at gmx.net (Alexander Jerusalem)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:02:46 +0100
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
In-Reply-To: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGELPDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
References: <24c39b2c.0203032114.3df9e523@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304005913.029e0bf8@pop.gmx.net>

Thanks a lot, now it works and even better I think I understand what's 
going on :-) I was aware of the fact that control characters like \n are 
represented in binary as a single number. What I missed is that I was 
printing the repr() of a tuple object instead of a list of strings. And 
this actually converts the strings back to Python source code as you point out.

Thanks,
Alexander



At 00:06 04.03.2002 -0600, Jason Orendorff wrote:
> > Hmm, ok, can you tell me how I can convert such a string back to the
> > ISO8859-1 character set so that I can write it to a text file?
>
>It appears that it already *is* in the right character set.
>Unfortunately, you seem to be converting it to a different
>representation sometimes, quite unintentionally, when you
>output it.
>
>Try this and see how it works.
>
>   import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc
>
>   outfile = open("myfile.txt", 'w')
>
>   con = odbc.connect(...)
>   c = con.cursor()
>   c.execute(...)
>
>   record = c.fetchone()    # record is a tuple
>   my_string = c[1]
>   print my_string   # print the string, not the tuple
>   outfile.write(my_string + '\n')   # write the string, not the tuple
>
>   c.close()
>   con.close()
>   outfile.close()
>
> > The strange thing is, that when I read umlauts from a textfile and
> > print them to standard out, they remain intact. Only when they come
> > from the database driver are they converted to this hex
> > representation.
>
>It's not the database or mxODBC that's doing it.
>
>The "hex representation" is just Python source code.
>Nothing too weird about it; that's how Python programmers put
>strings into programs.
>
>Suppose you type this.
>
>   >>> x = '123\n\txyz\n'
>
>Now in memory there's a string that has 9 characters in it,
>not 12.  Your '\n' has been converted to a single byte,
>with the value 10 (a newline character).  The '\t' has been
>converted to a single byte with the value 9 (a tab character).
>
>   >>> print len(x)
>   9
>   >>> print ord(x[3])  # the value of the '\n' character
>   10
>   >>> print ord(x[4])  # the value of the '\t' character
>   9
>
>Now, suppose we print this string two different ways.
>
>   >>> print x
>   123
>         xyz
>
>   >>> print repr(x)
>   '123\n\txyz\n'
>
>See the difference?  When you do "print x", Python dumps those
>characters to your console.  The newline characters, which you
>entered as '\n', are now displayed as line breaks, and the tab
>character, which you entered as '\t', is displayed as an
>indentation.  Likewise, depending on your console, the
>character you could enter as '\xd6' might be displayed as a
>Latin capital letter O with diaeresis (aka umlaut).
>
>When you do "print repr(x)", Python converts x *back* into
>Python-source-code form and displays the result.
>
>Which of these is the true internal representation of x?
>Neither.  The internal representation is 9 bytes of data--
>a bunch of numbers, really, not characters or pixels or
>source code.
>
>When you print a tuple, it tries to display itself in
>Python-source-code format.  This means, basically, calling
>repr() on its contents.  Not what you want.
>
>In order to display a string usefully, you must print the
>string itself, not the tuple that contains it.
>
>Sorry to write at such length...  :(
>
>## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Mar 31 11:59:04 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 19:59:04 +0300
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ku3cygr7vr.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list at python.org>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:

[...]
|     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

no.

[...]
| Rationale

|     Most languages eventually grow a Boolean type; even C99 (the new
|     and improved C standard, not yet widely adopted) has one.

i don't agree wit this argument.

|     Many programmers apparently feel the need for a Boolean type; most
|     Python documentation contains a bit of an apology for the absence
|     of a Boolean type.  I've seen lots of modules that defined
|     constants "False=0" and "True=1" (or similar) at the top and used
|     those.  The problem with this is that everybody does it
|     differently.  For example, should you use "FALSE", "false",
|     "False", "F" or even "f"?  And should false be the value zero or
|     None, or perhaps a truth value of a different type that will print
|     as "true" or "false"?  Adding a standard bool type to the language
|     resolves those issues.

clearly you should not use constants, but use 0 and 1. i've
personally not seen any code that uses constants like that.
i'm sure you could find many other questionable practices used
by many modules. i don't agree with this argument either.

|     Some external libraries (like databases and RPC packages) need to
|     be able to distinguish between Boolean and integral values, and
|     while it's usually possible to craft a solution, it would be
|     easier if the language offered a standard Boolean type.

this is true, but not very significant.

|     The standard bool type can also serve as a way to force a value to
|     be interpreted as a Boolean, which can be used to normalize
|     Boolean values.  Writing bool(x) is much clearer than "not not x"
|     and much more concise than

|         if x:
|             return 1
|         else:
|             return 0

i say add a bool() builtin that returns 0 or 1, if it makes you
feel better.


|     Here are some arguments derived from teaching Python.
[...]

in my experience, even absolute beginners naturally understand
that 0 means false and 1 means true.

the fact that other objects are interpreted as true or false can be
slightly confusing, but in my opinion this is not enough of a problem
to warrant the addition to language basics.

keep python clean! ;)

  -- erno






From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 02:22:29 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:22:29 GMT
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com> <83hendkou7.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <q7qd9u07pf6o9p13cg40u8mavi79r41u9d@4ax.com>

>This is unjustifiably glib.  Lots of programs don't need to run fast.
>Some programs do need to run fast.  Some programs justify significant
>work to get them to run fast.  Accelerating Python is a good thing not
>because of "so-called 'performance issues", but because in some cases,
>there really *are* performance issues that rule Python out.

Indeed; and believe it or not, there are even some environments
where writing external C doesn't solve the problem either.

C//



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 26 18:47:36 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 00:47:36 +0100
Subject: xml config file to python object
References: <pan.2002.03.26.22.42.54.656285.2901@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <m3r8m6zyav.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

> I would like to parse
> <myconfig>
>  <foo>2</foo>
>  <bar>sun</bar>
>  <bar>moon</bar>
> </myconfig>
> 
> to this:
> obj={'myconfig': [
>       { 'foo' : '2' }
>       { 'bar' : ['sun', 'moon']}
>       ]
>      }
> 
> I did it this weekend with a sax parser.

If this is the precise structure required, a SAX parser is probably as
good as any other approach. Most automatic toolkits would either build

obj={'myconfig': [
      { 'foo' : ['2'] }
      { 'bar' : ['sun', 'moon']}
      ]
     }

or

obj={'myconfig': [
      { 'foo' : '2' }
      { 'bar' : 'moon'}
      ]
     }

> Is there a way to pickle (serialize) any python object
> to xml and back?

If you are interested in "basic" objects, the xmlrpc module of Python
2.2 will already marshal them in a cross-language way. Likewise, the
PyXML xml.marshal package supports both WDDX support, and a
customizable marshaller.

For full pickling support, you can chose between xml_pickle, from

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-matters11.html

and the Zope xml pickle format ("ppml").

Regards,
Martin


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Mar  8 04:02:46 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:02:46 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from popen
In-Reply-To: <slrna8d9ca.1ld.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0203081945270.94-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On 6 Mar 2002, Stefan Heimann wrote:

> >|> If I write
> >|>
> >|> pin, pout, perr = os.popen3('cvs status')
> >|>
> >|> I get the output of stderr and stdout but not in the right order.
> >|
> >| What do you mean in the right order? Do you mean that it is returning in,
> >| err, out or that err and out are spitting out stuff simultaneously?
>
> the latter one.

os.popen4() should give you a combined stdout/stderr pipe.  Wouldn't rely
on it to get the order correct though, especially on Windows.

> >
> > Probably not simultaneous, because the C I/O library probably has
> > thread interlocks that prevent it, but if you want a single time
> > ordered stream, you'd need time stamps to reassemble it out of
> > two.  For example, suppose you record the output of "make", which
> > will be both output and error streams.  If you read them separately,
> > you won't be able to tell which compiler errors belong to which
> > make commands.
>
> That's what I need! Is it really so complicated? I think it should be
> common that someone needs to read stdout and stderr ordered by time.

Its somewhat more complicated than appears on the surface for sure,
because you get a whole heap of interactions involving:-
- scheduling of the processes at either end of the pipe(s);
- buffering (if any) of pipe data by the OS;
- buffering (if any) of pipe data by the C runtime library,
to mention some obvious issues.

Because Unix was designed with the intent of using pipes to implement
complex processes from simpler building blocks, using pipes on Unix
usually works in a relatively sane way, although ptys are probably more
appropriate/effective when bidirectional data transfer is required.

The concept of pipes is definitely an afterthought in the Windows world
(yes I know [MP]C-DOS 2 supported them, but it did so by writing actual
temporary files, and I don't think its improved much).

I am fairly sure you won't find a satisfactory way of getting
stdout/stderr output synchronised to your liking on Windows - be nice to
be proved wrong though.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 08:31:05 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:31:05 +0000
Subject: Dictionary Comprehension
References: <3mbe9usoufc2f5ppjmk7lh6ks71pgb45f9@4ax.com> <u663s674b.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <88fe9u8nfu7mhii673iktejm0dbc6aru76@4ax.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

>
>It got made into a PEP:
>
>    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0274.html
>
>The "Parade of the PEPs" says:
>
>  PEP 274 - Dict Comprehensions - Warsaw
>
>    If we were to adopt dict comprehensions, this PEP says everything
>    that needs to be said. But I don't even want to think about this
>    for Python 2.3; I think it's way too minor a feature.
>
>    This would be a lot easier to adopt if there was a working
>    implementation in patch form.
>
>    Sometimes it would be nice if things like this could be defined
>    using hygienic macros or some other kind of preprocessor or
>    whatever, and imported from a module, rather than requiring major
>    hacking in the parser, the bytecode compiler, and the virtual
>    machine.
>
>Cheers,
>M.

Neat. I really must have a nose around the PEPs sometime. There could
be all sorts of things I should be getting excited about.

It doesn't look like they're barging each other out of the way to get
to code it, though, does it? :-(

Oh well.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From mikle at tomsk.net  Wed Mar  6 06:11:17 2002
From: mikle at tomsk.net (Mikhail Astafiev)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:11:17 +0700
Subject: Passing Unicode strings to Database
Message-ID: <77188782494.20020306181117@tomsk.net>

[Env: Win2k, Python 1.5.2]

Hi people!

I have a string in Japanese encoded in UTF8. I need to put it into
database in Unicode form.

import dbi, odbc
o=odbc.odbc(self.ODBC_name+"/"+self.ODBC_sql_username+"/"+self.ODBC_sql_password)
c=o.cursor()
runes = UTF82Runes(string.replace(self.pr_table[row]["description"],"'","''"))
operator="""INSERT INTO %s VALUES('%s','%s');"""%(self.ODBC_table,
   int(self.pr_table[row]["pr_no"]),
   runes.tostring())
c.execute(operator)    # update database

I'm getting the following error trace:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\server.py", line 34, in ?
    PR.sync_all()
  File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\PRML\code\prml.py", line 2837, in sync_all
    self.__sync_with_sql__(i)
  File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\PRML\code\prml.py", line 2797, in __sync_with_sql__
    c.execute(operator)    # update database
TypeError: argument 1: expected string without null bytes, string found
  
runes is array.array('H') containing Unicode string.

Database string field has "ntext" type. How can I overcome this
problem?

Thanks in advance,
Mick.




From borcis at geneva-link.ch  Thu Mar 21 02:46:38 2002
From: borcis at geneva-link.ch (Boris^2)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:46:38 +0100
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016645913.29048.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C998FDE.5080204@geneva-link.ch>

Nick Arnett wrote:

> 
> I'm trying to figure out what the Internet is thinking today. 


What the internet is thinking, what the market is thinking...
sounds to me like attempts to pass epidemics for thought processes.

Regards, Boris Borcic
--
Python >>> filter(lambda W : W not in "ILLITERATE","BULLSHIT")



From p.magwene at snet.net  Wed Mar 27 20:58:06 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul M)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:58:06 GMT
Subject: new style classes and an IDLE "grump"
Message-ID: <OMuo8.9675$6a4.2523928683@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>

There is a minor (but somewhat unfortunate) difference in the way the IDLE
interpretter's "call tips" interact with "new" classes (i.e. classes derived
from object) and "classic" classes.  To see the difference try the
following:


>>> class Old:
        """An old style class (with sig)."""
        def __init__(self, x, y, z):
            pass


>>> class New(object):
        """A new style class (without sig)."""
        def __init__(self, x, y, z):
            pass


Now try instantiating an object of each of these classes while working in
IDLE.  For the classic class (Old) the idle prompt gives you a nice method
signature - "(x,y,z)" in this case, along with the doc string for the class.
The new style class doesn't give the same signature - only the doc string.

The method signature is a very nice feature when working with python
interactively - particularly for scientific computing.

The solution seems to be simply changing line 115 in CallTips.py (in the
Tools/Idle/ directory) as folows:

<         if type(ob)==types.ClassType:
---
>         if type(ob)==types.ClassType or type(ob) == types.TypeType:


This seems to "solve" the problem. However, is this the right solution -
i.e. is it only classes which are objects of type TypeType?  From my reading
of the "what's new" document I think this is the case, but it's late and my
brain is feeling a bit fuzzy.

Can somebody more up to date confirm or correct me on this matter?


Cheers,
Paul




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar 18 19:43:03 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:43:03 -0800
Subject: Declare list of large size
References: <mailman.1016495070.23614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-002672.16430318032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1016495070.23614.python-list at python.org>,
 "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:

> > list = [0]*100
> 
> But note that this is only safe for immutable elements. You will obtain a
> reference to the *same* object as each element.
> 
> This normally bites people when they try to make multi-dimensional arrays
> ...
> 
> list = [[0] * 2] * 2
> print list
> list[0][0] = 1
> print list
> 
> [[0, 0], [0, 0]]
> [[1, 0], [1, 0]]
> 
> As you can see, the first element of each sub-list has been changed - this
> is because each sub-list is in fact the same list!

I got bitten by that, once.  It took very little time to learn not to do 
that.

So, is it considered more Pythonic to create a multidimensional array by
    list = [[0]*100 for i in range(100)]
and then access it by
    ...list[i][j]...

or is it more typical to just use dictionaries?
    list = {}
    ...list[i,j]...
?

I can see advantages either way -- the dictionary method is simpler, 
more space-efficient if you don't intend to fill the whole thing, and 
makes it easy to pass around and use tuples representing indexes into 
the array.  But the list-of-lists more explicitly states what you're 
doing, may be slightly faster (I haven't checked), gives you bounds 
checking,and more generally doesn't let you index by anything but a 
tuple of integers.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Mar  7 16:55:10 2002
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:55:10 GMT
Subject: A Date-Time format stored as Days
Message-ID: <1103_1015538110@news.dsl-only.net>

While many Linux / Unix systems represent time as a number of seconds since a
base time.  One big problem with this format is that, while differences are easy to 
calculate, it does not incorporate "leap seconds" gracefully at all.

A representation of a Date-Time as Days and seconds within day is better, but
differences are tougher to calculate, and naive code breaks badly in the presence
of leap seconds.

A representation as A Day / fixed point fraction of a day should work much better.
In a system that ignores leap seconds, this is simple.  The low word (fixed point 
day fraction) can simply be multiplied by a constant to convert it to seconds.  If
there _are_ leap second records, they affect the day fractions of certain days.
This is usually reflected as a scaling providing an extra second on a particular 
day.  In rare cases, certain days have _two_ leap seconds, so there are three
scale factors converting day parts to seconds: normal days, leap-second days,
and double-leap-second days.  The differences between the factor for double-
leap-second days and normal days is 2 seconds in 24*60*60 or 1 part in 43200.
This "error" is spread smoothly across the day, so that naive difference of two
date-times is quite close to the leap-second aware difference.

By calculating in units of days, we can do quite well in avoiding running into
the leap-second problem.  With 64-bit hardware, we can quite nicely use the
high order 32 bits for a day and the low order 32 bits to get a very high-precision
day part, and simply use integer math to do most calculations.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  5 09:03:51 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:03:51 +0100
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu> <7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <eppstein-A9DCEE.19590304032002@news.service.uci.edu> <a61sgu$b3o$0@216.39.172.122> <slrna88u34.1mi.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <20020305090407.625$U4@news.newsreader.com>

[regarding Naturals include or not Zero]
...
> At Uni, my two maths profs disagreed, too.
>

I was learnt that Naturals do not include zero.
Then in math we defined "Naturals plus Zero" set as:
    N+ = N U { 0 }     # the '+' is superscripted

Afterwards we used N+ whenever we need the zero
to be part of the Dominium. Once the set was
specified in later colloquially references the
name "Naturals plus zero" was shortened as just
Naturals. We never had to forget the little '+'
though in our homeworks or tests, though.

-Hernan







From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 00:24:25 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:24:25 -0500
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> >> Optimally, it would be a single "exe" file that doesn't
> >> require any installation procedure.
> >
> > That's too much to ask for even a native Windows app in most
> > cases these days.
> 
> That's kind of sad, but I figured as much.  The only real
> stand-alone Win32 app I've seen in a long while is puTTY. Are
> statically linked apps just not possible under Win32, or just
> not practical?

Just as possible and practical as under Linux, really.  Which 
is to say not highly desirable in many cases, at least for 
serious (read, largish) applications.  For smaller utility
type programs, definitely possible but, unfortunately, less
of an option in your case trying to do it with Python tools.
But you really don't want to statically link an 800K 
interpreter and a 2MB windowing framework into your little 
utility, do you? :)

> > Use py2exe and you'll get a directory with the Python DLL, the
> > wxPython DLL, your EXE, and a few other DLLs as needed (e.g.
> > the native regular expression stuff if you use it).
> 
> I don't know diddly about DLLs, so pardon the ignorant
> question: Can my DLLs be put in a private directory where my
> EXE can find them?  I'd rather not put anything in any public
> system directories.

Yes, definitely.  Not entirely advisable if you're delivering
more than one program in the same manner, since you'd be
duplicating piles of files, but you can do it.  And I suppose
there's the fact you'd be avoiding much of the grief caused
by dynamically linked apps and "DLL version hell" by doing
that, if you can spare the hard drive space (and most users
probably can these days).

-Peter


From tim at zope.com  Fri Mar  8 01:04:44 2002
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:04:44 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEHJOCAA.tim@zope.com>

Quoting Guido's new "Parade of the PEPs" essay at

    http://www.python.org/doc/essays/pepparade.html

"""
To start off Developer's Day at the Python10 conference I gave a keynote
ending in what I dubbed "the parade of the PEPs". It was a brief overview of
all open PEPs, where I gave my highly personal and subjective opinion for
each PEP.  Later, I realized that this might have been of interest to other
developers.  I didn't take notes at the conference, so below is a different
set of comments that I created from scratch during a single two-hour sitting
on March 7, 2002.
"""

Since Guido's "highly personal and subjective opinions" are nevertheless
destined to circumscribe every waking moment of your Python life, everyone
interested in Python development should give it a good read.

It's also linked to from the PEP Index page at SourceForge:

    http://python.sf.net/peps/

Note that Guido wants to keep 2.3 free of new core language features.  You
can deduce that from reading the essay, or-- like me --you can just believe
it because it's true <wink>.  There's a huge backlog of good ideas for
improving the internals and libraries, and I wouldn't be surprised to see
the focus remain there for 2.4 too.




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 11:48:08 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:48:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
References: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D1A9EBA13CFduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tino Lange <tl_news at nexgo.de> wrote in 
news:a6q6hu$1c6$1 at crusher.de.colt.net:

> So the best solution is to transport an object like
> return list(newlist)
> 
> But I guess this makes a temporary copy of my MaxSizedList just for the 
> XML-RPC-transport, or? So it's horrible inefficient? 
> 
> 

Yes, that will make a copy. But copying a list is a pretty efficient 
operation, so no, it isn't really horribly inefficient. Have you tried it 
and identified this as a bottleneck? How long are your lists anyway?

One way to do this that avoids the copying is to aggregate a list object 
into your class instead of trying to subclass the list type. Then you can 
simply return the internal list object if you want.

However, from your description I would be much more worried about the 
throwing away elements from the front of the list every time you append to 
the end of the list. I do hope you are batching these up into large chunks 
to be discarded, not throwing them away one or two at a time.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 15:18:44 2002
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 12:18:44 -0800
Subject: communication with a java applet
References: <3C9F100D.BAB4F24D@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <57de9986.0203251218.6e42a9ab@posting.google.com>

Looping <looping002 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3C9F100D.BAB4F24D at hotmail.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I am trying to make a real-time system communicate with a java applet
> under IE 5.5. I only have a pyd file (Python 1.5.2) to get the floats
> calculated on the platform and I wonder how to make the platform
> communicate with my java applet : TCP/IP, CORBA, shared memory,
> others... ?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advices,

Its relatively straightforward to get Python and Java to talk over
sockets.
If you want to send data in a binary format then on the Python side of
things there is the "xdrlib" (I'm assuming this was present in Python
1.5.2 as I don't have 1.5.2 installed anymore).  On the Java side
you'd want to get hold of a DataInputStream (or DataOutputStream). 
Something like:

DataInputStream dis = new DataInputStream(mySocket.getInputStream()) ;
double nextValue = dis.readDouble() ;

Good luck,
Giles


From theller at python.net  Mon Mar 25 11:06:45 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:06:45 +0100
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

> >>           * XXX do we need to store permissions?  The owner/group?
> >> +         THE: no, not on windows.
> >
> > Really?  Even on Windows, couldn't files be potentially owned by
> > Administrator or some other user.  We should definitely have
> > permissions and owner/group on Unix; can you tell me what Windows
> > needs here?  (I assume MacOS X would be the same as Unix, and earlier
> > MacOS versions aren't multi-user, so they don't need anything.)
>
> On Windows systems all files on an NTFS partition have an owner and access
> control lists. The command "DIR /Q" displays the owner of each file, or you
> can add a column to the explorer view. By default I think each file is
> owned by the owner of the directory in which they are created
> (BUILTIN\Administrators for just about everything). My laptop also has a
> FAT partition. It seems that files on that are owned by 'Everyone'. :-(

All true. On the other hand, Python has no possibility to display
or change the owner and access control lists (except if you do some
hardcore win32 programming).

Thomas




From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 17:48:27 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:48:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <15494.39790.135887.255289@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020306144827.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 06-Mar-2002 Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Sean> On 06-Mar-2002 Steve Lamb wrote:
>     >> On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:21:35 -0800 (PST), Sean 'Shaleh' Perry
>     >> <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
>     >>> help release more python modules so perl mongers will quite wagging
>     >>> CPAN in front of our faces.
>     >> 
>     >> Quality over Quantity.  :)
> 
>     Sean> not to disagree, however there are FAR more interesting perl
>     Sean> modules out there than python ones.
> 
> Correct, which is why a better solution than CPAN or VoP might include some
> sort of module rating system.  However, this discussion probably belongs on
> the catalog-sig.  (my first bullet. hint, hint... ;-)
> 

oh, so that is what the catalog-sig is (-:



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 22:56:33 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:56:33 -0500
Subject: circular imports (don't yell!)
References: <a7gm3d$93n$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BFCF1.3CF03E1C@engcorp.com>

jimh wrote:
> 
> We have a scenario where we have (and need) circular imports, that is, A
> imports B imports C imports A.  Now I know there are ways around this, but
> we have external dependencies that make it very difficult to use an
> alternative, so don't be yelling at me about the design ;)

I can't criticize external dependencies that are outside of 
your control, but be careful ignoring suggestions that
you shouldn't have to find a way to handle circular imports.
You'll have to work harder to convince many of us that
there isn't a fairly straight-forward, if non-obvious,
way to get what you want without a true circular import.

> I have whittled the problem down to 3 files:

Thanks for that! :)

Try this instead, and if it isn't acceptable, my suggestion
would be to explain more about the real situation and let
_us_ conclude that you really do, in fact, have to stick
with your circular imports.

a.py
------
consta = 3
if __name__ == "__main__":
    from b import *    # other modules don't run these
    from c import *
    print consta
    print constb
    print constc

> Any ideas?

I didn't bother trying to figure why it works the one way
you had it but doesn't the other way.  You really don't want
to be relying on some obscure phenomenon that takes that 
much effort to investigate, even if you can get it working.

Also, do you realize that "from X import *" is a bad idea
in general?  I'll assume that was just something you did
to try to reproduce the problem in a small sample program...

-Peter


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Mar  4 16:50:38 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:50:38 +0100
Subject: Brewster's Factor - was :Trouble running programs
References: <mailman.1015243028.14971.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a60qa3$i1r$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:48:55 +0100, Laura Creighton <lac at strakt.com>
wrote:

>the only Brewster Factors I can find have to do with polarised light,
>or English Chrisitian Revivalist Victorian political parties, neither
>of which I suspect is what I am looking for.  Any ideas?

Sorry, I can't help you here, but having read a book about Murphy's
law I have an intuition about what Brewster Factors might be.

Suppose someone is looking for something (like Brewster Factors for
example), then most of the time the place where someone will find them
will be the last place this person looks for them, like in the
following code example:

a = 5
r = range(10)
for i in r:
	if i == a:
		break
print i

Now I have the idea that Brewster Factors are influencing i to be
equal to 5 after the for loop in the example code for just enough
times to make someone completely rely on this feature. After that of
course i is undefined.

Anton.


From jrchaff at mcn.net  Sun Mar 10 21:54:02 2002
From: jrchaff at mcn.net (jrc)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:54:02 GMT
Subject: Help newbie w/Numpy Install ??
Message-ID: <3C8C1C4F.7770642A@mcn.net>

Hi there,

I'm brand new to Python - tho experienced somewhat
with programming, compiling, etc.  I just downloaded
Python v2.2 but have yet to install.  I'm going to run it
on Windows ME. (I have MSVC 6.0 but not installed,
hopefully don't need all that.)

I can't seem to understand, on sourceforge / numpy
pages, the following two issues:

  a) Exactly which files do I need to download to make
NumPy work with Python 2.2 - or is that even possible?

  b) Will I need my c-compiler to get NumPy to work?

Thanks in advance,

J.R. Chaffer



From arturs at iidea.pl  Fri Mar 22 03:19:11 2002
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:19:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
Message-ID: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>


Is there an idiom in Python as to sorting dictionary by value,
not keys? I came up with some solutions which are so inefficient
that I'm sure there must be a simple way.

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org
http://mf.gnome.pl


From cqxiao at charter.net  Sun Mar  3 10:35:31 2002
From: cqxiao at charter.net (chongqing xiao)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:35:31 -0600
Subject: question about Generator
Message-ID: <u84gjbo6v11dca@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

Suppose if I have a generator (func) which will return [2,4,6,8]

Is any way I can just get the first item (instead of using for x in func()
to get the first item)
or stop before I get the last item in the Generator.
Also, any comments on what the following code will do. (I don't have 2.2
installed so I
can't try it myself)

for x in func():
    for y in func():
        print x,y

Thanks a lot
Chong




From xonda-m at xonda.net  Sun Mar  3 20:36:41 2002
From: xonda-m at xonda.net (=?euc-kr?B?vfC02bPd?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:36:41 +0900
Subject: =?euc-kr?B?W7GksO1dua7A2rjevcPB9iC067euILnfvNsgudcgsO2wtCCw/LiuIA==?=	=?euc-kr?B?x8G3zrHXt6UovfC02b+lKQ==?=
Message-ID: <INTRANETbJaafMKDepe00033642@intranet.xonda.net>

	 	 
 <http://biz.xonda.net>  		
 ?? ????? ????

 ?? ?? ????

 ??? ??? ??(??? ???? ??)

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 ???, DM? ?? ????

 ???? 2? ???? (PC? ? ?? ????)

 1000?? ?????, ??? ??? ??

	
 <http://ftp.xonda.net/xonda-m/xonda30.exe> 
[ Xonda-M Ver 1.5 ????? ???? <http://ftp.xonda.net/xonda-m/xonda30.exe>
]
- ????? 10? ???? ?? -

      ??? ?? ????? ?? ? ???? ?? ????!!

         ???? ??? ? ?????. ????? ??? ??? ??? ? ? ???.

       ???? CEO / ????? / ???? / ???? ?? / ????? ?? ?? ? ?


         ?? ?? ?? ??? Xonda-M(???)??? ?????.

???? : Xonda-M??? 02) 723-7927 xonda-m at xonda.net
<mailto:xonda-m at xonda.net> , http://biz.xonda.net/
<http://www.xonda.net/biz> 

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 <http://www.xonda.net/biz/xonda_m/xonda_m_3.asp> 

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? ??? ????? ???? ?? ? 50?? ???? [??] ???? ??????.
??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???,
???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????. ? ??? ? 1?? ?????.
?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????.

 <http://www.xonda.net/mail/email_refuse.asp> 

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From Arnaud.De_La_Fortelle at inria.fr  Tue Mar 19 08:48:51 2002
From: Arnaud.De_La_Fortelle at inria.fr (Arnaud de La Fortelle)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 14:48:51 +0100
Subject: [wxPython 2.3.1] what's going on?
References: <a775l6$kro$1@galaxy.uci.agh.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <rk6r8mgoegs.fsf@pegase.inria.fr>

> Has anybody met this problem, or it's just my 'private reslult' :)

No problem for me.
(Linux RedHat 7.1, python 2.2, wxPython-2.3.2.1)

Arnaud

Python 2.2 (#1, Feb  6 2002, 12:33:27)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import math
>>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
1.7155277699214135
>>> from wxPython.wx import *
>>> 4*math.exp(-0.5)/math.sqrt(2.0)
1.7155277699214135


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Mar 28 14:22:53 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:22:53 +0100
Subject: Simple threaded web-server based on BaseHTTPServer?
References: <rq768.109$ti7.170403328@news.telia.no> <3C59295E.3080900@skippinet.com.au> <ifb68.120$ti7.178927104@news.telia.no> <3C5976D0.A3A63A46@stroeder.com> <a3cbdq$muv$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA36D8D.1080204@stroeder.com>

Aahz Maruch wrote:
> In article <3C5976D0.A3A63A46 at stroeder.com>,
> Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=  <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> 
>>In my case (http://web2ldap.de) I'm using threaded BaseHTTPServer
>>but I'm not really happy with it. Especially since I have to use a
>>module-wide lock to serialize calls into python-ldap module because
>>the underlying OpenLDAP libs are not thread-safe. This can block the
>>whole thing and killing threads on e.g. Linux is not possible.
>>Having a single-process asyncore design would probably make things
>>easier.
> 
> Add another thread to serialize things instead of using a module-wide
> lock.

I really wonder how this helps if the call into the underlying module really 
blocks. BTW: In opposite to my original statement an asyncore design would 
also not help since the underlying OpenLDAP lib is not designed that way.

Ciao, Michael.



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 23 16:06:09 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 21:06:09 GMT
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <mailman.1016313447.30968.python-list@python.org> <a7dos3$2apu$1@news.idiom.com> <3C9B7A1E.451453BA@ccvcorp.com> <a7gduc$f4j$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a7iqo1$t1s$0@216.39.172.122>

On 22 Mar 2002 23:15:24 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>            print "That's not a integer.  Try again!"
             print "That's not an integer.  Try again!"

That was too jarring to leave be ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From xx758 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Mar  4 08:58:03 2002
From: xx758 at cam.ac.uk (Xiao-Qin Xia)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:58:03 +0000
Subject: Response to resizing window
Message-ID: <a5vub7$fn3$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Hi, everybody,

I draw a chart (some lines and text message) on a canvas in a Toplevel 
window. I want to redraw the chart whenever the window is resized. Anybody 
can show me how to do it? (I guess I need something like WM_DELETE_WINDOW)

Regards,
Xiao-Qin



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 24 10:03:27 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 10:03:27 -0500
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list at python.org>,
 <holger at trillke.net> wrote:
>
>maybe a simple question:
>
>how could you stop a running threading.Thread from the *outside*? of
>course i could introduce some kind of flag into the event loop of the
>Thread.run-method, but i really would prefer to have a non-instrusive
>way for several reasons.
>
>Any way to do this?

Not really.  Why do you want to do it?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 17:37:57 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:37:57 -0500
Subject: [XP] Code Complete: Things were Scary Back Then
References: <mailman.1017434688.14396.python-list@python.org> <3CA4E5F5.70B5A7E5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <B16p8.29372$Ou.23822@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3CA4E5F5.70B5A7E5 at engcorp.com...
> David Brady wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> > >
> > > I don't remember any of the BASICs that I used,
> > > whether Apple II, PET, C-64, MS, or other having modules
>
> > I did this a lot.  There was no enforcement of
> > "modules" in BASIC, but you could still do modular
> > programming.  You only had the one big program to work
> > with, but you mentally divided it up into sections.
>
> Well, I used reserved blocks of line numbers in the same
> way, but I'd hardly deign to call that "making a module".
>
I went as far as producing a programming system called BLINK which treated
non-numbered BASIC code pretty much like assembly language, assigning line
numbers dynamically as it processed the code. For those of you that can
remember PDP-11 assembly language, I even had PSECTs so you could have
several different sections of your program "assembled" into several
different ranges of line numbers.

Back in those days (1978) most Basic Plus programmers had only got as far as
standard that said "subroutines should have line numbers between 20,000 and
29,999", which meant that they often had to resolve line number clashes and
renumber the code. I even wrote this up for a DECUS conference but I doubt
if that paper is available now.

> And I didn't call the use of GOTO "sending a method to
> another object" either.  ;-)
>
Tired old cynic that you are ;-)

regards
 Steve






From jason at jorendorff.com  Sat Mar  9 21:10:49 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:10:49 -0600
Subject: Threading help?
In-Reply-To: <3C85ABDB.6090606@Lindbergs.org>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEEENDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

VanL wrote:
> I can do each of the individual parts, but I don't know how to combine
> them all so that each is running in a different thread, so that process
> 2 doesn't make the other two lose their timing.

# NOTE:  The code below ignores synchronization issues.  This is actually
# okay for this situation, I think, because assigning or accessing the
# value of an attribute is guaranteed atomic.  But in general you would
# want to protect all access to data that's common across threads,
# using e.g. threading.RLock.
#
# Your requirements ask for the data processing to occur every 0.1 sec.
# This doesn't exactly do that, but you can delete the time delay if
# this really needs to run *constantly*.
#
# It would be more typical to fetch the data on demand, then cache
# it in case another response comes in at about the same time.
# Then you wouldn't need threads at all.

import threading, time, urllib, BaseHTTPServer

# First, start a processing thread.

class ProcessingThread(threading.Thread):
    """ Thread for fetching and formatting data.

    Attribute:
    self.result - a tuple with (timestamp, data).
    """

    def __init__(self):
        self.result = (0, '')
        self.done = 0

    def run(self):
        while not self.done:
            data = self.fetch_new_data()
            output = self.process(data)
            self.result = (time.time(), output)
            time.sleep(0.1)

    def fetch_new_data(self):
        ... use urllib to get new data ...

    def process(self, data):
        ... do something with the data ...
        ... format it for output ...
        return result

processing_thread = ProcessingThread()
processing_thread.start()

# In your main thread, do your server stuff.
# This is of course example code.

class MyHTTPRequestHandler(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
    def do_GET(self):
        timestamp, output = processing_thread.result
        self.wfile.write("HTTP/1.0 200 OK\r\n"
                         ...
                         ... your headers here ...
                         ...
                         "Date: " + format(timestamp) + "\r\n"
                         "Connection: close\r\n"
                         "Content-type: text/html;charset=US-ASCII\r\n"
                         "Content-length: " + str(len(output)) + "\r\n"
                         "\r\n")
        self.wfile.write(result)

server = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(('', 8000), MyHTTPRequestHandler)
server.serve_forever()


## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From stevewilliams at wwc.com  Mon Mar 18 19:38:47 2002
From: stevewilliams at wwc.com (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:38:47 GMT
Subject: Python-DB2 module and DB2 Connect
References: <3C90A125.4020208@stroeder.com> <3C90BF28.8080301@stroeder.com> <3C932F02.259AD2A1@wwc.com> <3C933DD5.4090804@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <3C968A66.707@wwc.com>

Michael Str?der wrote:
> Steve Williams wrote:
> 
>> =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?= wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Str?der wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone here which had success with using DB2-Python-0.991 (see
>>>> ftp://people.linuxkorea.co.kr/pub/DB2/) build against DB2 Connect?
>>>
[snip]

>>     cursor.execute("insert into X(Y,Z) values ?, ?",('123.45','10'))
>>
>> fails with SQL0408N, SQLSTATE=42821, type mismatch.
>>
>> However,
>>
>>     cursor.execute("insert into X(Y,X) values cast(? as
>> decimal(5,2)),cast(? as integer)",('123.45','10'))
>>
>> succeeds.
>>
>> The failing insert succeeds on Windows 2000 with mxODBC and ODBC
>> connected to the same database.  The Windows CLI/ODBC settings don't
>> seem to show any particular magic.
> 
> 
> Does the SQL statement also work in the commad-line tool db2?
> 
> Well, I finally succeded after setting PATCH1=0 and PATCH2=0 in 
> db2cli.ini and using SQL statements valid for DB2 OS/390.
> 
> Though I have to admit that I'm a RDBMS newbie just starting to get 
> involved with DB2 for a rather simple project.
> 
> Ciao, Michael.
> 
Well, clearly, the error message is correct.  The execute command
should fail, and the INSERT does indeed fail in the command line tool.

My point here is to be careful moving from ODBC to the API,
because ODBC may do some extra [helpful] things.

The DB2 API works for me.

Steve





From aut at c2i.net  Wed Mar 27 05:30:00 2002
From: aut at c2i.net (Audun Tonnesen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:30:00 GMT
Subject: Python Web Programming Book?
References: <mailman.1017219221.3952.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1103_1017224999@news1.c2i.net>

Couple of days ago, I spent half an hour in the book store leafing through this one.
There's also an interview with the author on the publisher's website.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735710902/qid=1017224740/sr=1-13/ref=sr_1_13/103-7891501-7655015

Audun

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:19:04 +0930 (CST), Michael Hall <olc at ninti.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone can suggest the best (or a selection of the
> best) books available covering the use of Python in a web and database
> environment? It's OK if the book deals with other stuff, as long as its
> treatment of web programming and database integration is good. 
> 
> Is a book that also deals with Zope, Cheetah and Albatross or
> related topics (embedded Python, I suppose) asking just too
> much?
> 
> A good text will certainly cut down my newbie questions to this list.
> So far I have Mark Lutz' "Python Programming" and Andre Lessa's "Python
> Developer's Handbook" on my shortlist.
> 
> Mick
> 
> 





From aahz at panix.com  Sat Mar  9 06:33:08 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 03:33:08 -0800
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
References: <mailman.1015612095.8491.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6crtk$fc9$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1015612095.8491.python-list at python.org>,
Cromwell, Jeremy <jcromwell at ciena.com> wrote:
>PEP 276 (Simple Iterator for ints) and PEP 284 (Integer for-loops), among
>others, are written from the perspective that the current integer for-loop
>syntax
>
>    for i in range(10):
>
>is a wart.  Is this true?  That is, where does the Python community stand on
>this issue?

Wart?  It's somewhat awkward for heavy-duty manipulation of sequence
indexes, but the proposals that suggest adding a new function or two to
handle that are best IMO.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From cwazir at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 21:04:19 2002
From: cwazir at yahoo.com (Chirag Wazir)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 18:04:19 -0800
Subject: english thesaurus and dictionary
References: <c4e6b17d.0203120905.757d5cd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <79c178a9.0203121804.49f3e780@posting.google.com>

Take a look at http://pywordnet.sourceforge.net
It's excellent, though it may be overkill for your application :-)

Chirag


bobnotbob at byu.edu (Bob Roberts) wrote in message news:<c4e6b17d.0203120905.757d5cd5 at posting.google.com>...
> I want to incorporate an english thesaurus and dictionary into my
> application.  Does anybody know of freely available thesauri and
> dictionaries that I could use?


From jlh at cox.net  Fri Mar  1 20:18:01 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:18:01 GMT
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net>

<James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list at python.org...
[...snip...]
> There's no requirement to think about number theory or to view integers as
> collections here.  All that is suggested is a slightly-less cluttered
(than
> current) way to iterate the indices of an indexed-collection.  If you are
> happy with range/xrange, so be it.
What you are asking everyone to agree with is:
        5 = [0,1,2,3,4]
I would fall in the camp that does not favor this.

If you were to restate the above as:
       f(5)=[0,1,2,3,4]
Then, I believe, that you wouldn't have any problem convincing a large
majority that it is possible for f() to produce such an output.  That being
said, I would find that the argument favors the use of range/xrange over the
concept of iterable integers.

-Jeff Hinrichs





From Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com  Tue Mar 19 17:36:41 2002
From: Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com (Gabe Newcomb)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:36:41 -0800
Subject: arrays help
Message-ID: <0C7CA8D8DF75494EB09AB6016990107F011B1819@NOXMAIL.noetixad.com>

if l = [['a','b'],'dog','cat'],
then l[0][1] = 'b'.

Is that what you meant?

Gabe

-----Original Message-----
From: Umesh Persad [mailto:upersad at tstt.net.tt]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:24 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: arrays help


Hi,
 I am just getting started with Python from a c/c++ and Java
background. I am programming a game and I wanted to
represent a gameboard by a double subscripted array.
How do I do this in Python? Thanks,

Umesh


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Thu Mar  7 06:46:14 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:46:14 +0900
Subject: fork and thread and signal... oooooops
References: <87550ef1.0203050846.2166835e@posting.google.com> <lJph8.56$_Z4.249@news.hananet.net> <mailman.1015444393.19258.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MeIh8.104$_Z4.397@news.hananet.net>

Gerhard H?ring scribbled with his keyboard:
> Le 06/03/02 ? 23:41, Jonathan Gardner ?crivit:
>> [...]
>> Your init.d script will be written in sh, not python. It would be a
>> horrible idea to write an init.d script in python.
> 
> I can't see why writing an init script in Python would be a bad idea.
> Care to explain?
> 

Let me put it another way. What language would you choose to write a 
program that works with a lot of text? You'd probably choose perl to do 
that because perl makes it really easy to work with text and such. What if 
you just wanted to do a simple substition? You'd go with awk, because that 
is what awk is good for. 

Shell is really good for writing things like init scripts. All the other 
init scripts are written with shell. Python just doesn't compare to shell 
when all you want to do is start or stop or send signals to a process. 
That's what shell was built for. Writing an init script in Python makes 
about as much sense as writing your init script in Tcl or C++.

And think of the sysadmins...

Jonathan


From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 13:13:00 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 10:13:00 -0800
Subject: CGIHTTPServer windoze hair-loss program
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203071013.2d2047f7@posting.google.com>

Hi folks,

I've been trying without some success to get CGIHTTPServer working with 
windows XP (or win2k) and Python 2.2 

Simply put, I can't get the POST method to work as desired in CGIHTTPServer.
Or maybe my code is buggy...

The following is true of my particular situation:
    
-  The script is run correctly when executed (1)directly from the browser
    address bar or (2) from the commandline.
   
   (1) So after running cgiserve, if I manually type
   "http://localhost:8000/cgi-bin/testcgi.py?a=1" into the browser 
   I get the correct output which is:
   
   -output----------------------------------------------------------------
   Input: a --> 1

   Finished!
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   (2) Equally if I run the testcgi.py script from the commandline
   e.g. "python testcgi.py a=1" I also get correct output.

-  However, when I click on the submit button on the html form while running
   CGIHTTPServer the interpreter doesn't execute the script, nor does 
   it pass values, and all I get is a "The page cannot be displayed" 
   error. Subsequently hitting refresh on the browser then runs the script 
   correctly, albeit without any values passed.


Here is the test code:

cgiserve.py
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
from CGIHTTPServer import test as serve
if __name__=='__main__': serve()
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

test.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
<html>
 <head>
  <title>CGI Test</title>
 </head>
 <body>
 <form method="POST" action="cgi-bin\testcgi.py">
    <input type='text' name='mytext' size=60>
    <input type='submit' value=' ok '>
 </form>
 </body>
</html>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

cgi-bin\testcgi.py
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
#!python

import cgi   
print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
form = cgi.FieldStorage()
for name in form.keys():
    print "Input: " + name + " --> " + form[name].value + "\n"
print "Finished!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Log output while running cgiserve.py
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
C:\src\tst\>cgiserve
Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
localhost - - [07/Mar/2002 20:17:38] "GET /test.html HTTP/1.1" 200 -
localhost - - [07/Mar/2002 20:17:47] "POST /cgi-bin/testcgi.py HTTP/1.1" 200 -
localhost - - [07/Mar/2002 20:17:47] command: C:\Engines\Python22\python.exe 
-u C:\src\tst\cgi-bin\testcgi.py ""
localhost - - [07/Mar/2002 20:17:47] CGI script exited OK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now is there something in particular that I'm doing wrong here. I'm kinda 
pulling my hair out by now. )-; 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Sandy


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 13:09:58 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:09:58 -0800
Subject: Windows Installation
In-Reply-To: <slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net>
	<3C917E97.E615E316@engcorp.com>
	<slrna92ug6.hum.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <20020315100958.639888ba.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 15 Mar 2002 05:35:15 GMT
Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> The best solution to this problem is to give in and get a damn Windows
> box.  Even a virtual one with VMWare or Bochs will do. AFAIK Bochs can
> run at least Windows 95 and it even runs on non-x86 hardware.

I use VMware 2.0 at work and 3.0 at home and found it to be excellent. 
I've had some stability problems with 3.0 (although this may be the result
of other factors - later Linux kernel versions, Athlon CPU, keyboard/chair
interface, etc).  At work, VMware 2.0 has never crashed on me and
performance is excellent on a PIII 800 running Win2k, and it's far
preferable to having a dual-boot system.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 13:09:54 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:09:54 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org> <a84t0v$k7u$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA60068.FF38A83D@python.org>

[me]
> > Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> > an int is int(b).  Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for
> > this purpose is backwards.  (IMO there's almost *never* a reason to
> > import that module anyway.)

[Ralph]
> I thought Tim was trying to map a range of integer values onto just 0
> and 1 as ints, not False and True, where as you're suggesting he just
> wants to get an int from a boolean.  I think he has an expression like
> day_of_month, e.g. 30, and wants a 0 or 1 from it.

I should've said int(bool(x)) for any expression x.  When I wrote int(b) I
meant b to be a value that was already a bool.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 27 16:00:08 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:00:08 -0600
Subject: The Python Way
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689E9@SRM201002>

> Thinking of automatic locking concepts, has there been a PEP for 
> synchronized objects like Java?
> 
>     class Snorf:
>         def __init__(self):
>             self.lock = lock.lock()
> 
>         def doSomething(self,x) synchronize(self.lock):
>             code
> 
> It would be nice if the synchronize parameter could be an instance, 
> class or module lock.

Hmmm... I believe this would be easy to do using metaclasses,
but since I'm no meta-wizard, I'll leave it to one of the
great bots to illuminate us with a simple proof of concept.

-gustavo



From thomas at gatsoft.no  Fri Mar  1 02:55:18 2002
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:55:18 GMT
Subject: Simple threading thing
References: <Rlsf8.136$5vh.170729984@news.telia.no> <j4vgchebcy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Wcwf8.1866$eJ6.34464@news2.ulv.nextra.no> <m3u1s19qhu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <GtGf8.138$5vh.170731520@news.telia.no>

I was calling the maintanence-thread's run()-method, not its start()-method.
Thanks to Cliff Wells for helping me with that.

Here's the code in question for later use :

import time, threading

class MyThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
    def run(self):
        while 1:
            time.sleep(10)
            print "Doing something"

class t:
    def __init__(self):
        self.worker = MyThread()
    def serve(self):
        self.worker.start() # was self.worker.run()
        while 1:
            time.sleep(5)
            print "Main class serving ..."

x = t()
x.serve()


Now it works just great! Thanks for all your help, interest and input.

Best regards,
Thomas Weholt

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3u1s19qhu.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Thomas Weholt" <thomas at weholt.org> writes:
>
> > I need a thread, no forking. Should run in Linux and Win32. I need a
thread
> > that functions in the background, running beside the main server, with a
> > reference to the main server so it can maintain states etc. in it. The
> > purpose of the process is to mainly remove expired sessions ( remember
this
> > is a webserver ), log certain values and monitor the server, and work as
> > sort of a janitor.
> >
> > Does that make it any clearer?
>
> Not really. The main process starts. What happens next? I interpret
> your posting as
>
> - creates a new thread, to observe the main thread
> - the main thread should continue to run, but doesn't
>
> Is that correct? How do you know it does not run?
>
> If this are all the fact, it is really hard to believe. There must be
> details that you've omitted.
>
> Regards,
> Martin




From t.kloppenburg at billiton.de  Tue Mar 26 08:41:44 2002
From: t.kloppenburg at billiton.de (Tjabo Kloppenburg)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:41:44 +0100
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
In-Reply-To: <a7pm9i$86t$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <mailman.1017132640.22480.python-list@python.org> <a7pm9i$86t$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <E16prDC-0006je-00@mail.python.org>

or, in python 2.2 syntax:

>     def __getitem__(self,i):
>         return self.__records[i]

  def __iter__(self):
    self.ptr = 0
    return self

  def next(self):
     if self.ptr < (len(self.__records) - 1):
       self.ptr = self.ptr + 1
       return self.__records[self.ptr]
     else:
       raise StopIteration

tk.



From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Fri Mar 29 18:42:22 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:42:22 +1100
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <20020329162758.GA1370@blackscarab>
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <20020329162758.GA1370@blackscarab>
Message-ID: <200203292342.XAA17883@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 03:27, cruciatuz wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:20:33AM +0000, Fused wrote:
> > Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> > have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> > rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> > challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
>
> a programming game like realtimebattle, written entirely in python,
> would be very cool.

See http://www.pythonpros.com/gstein/war/


    Richard



From SWidney at ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Wed Mar 27 22:51:02 2002
From: SWidney at ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:51:02 -0800
Subject: list comprehension question
Message-ID: <D4EB5574F4A7D2119C9E00A0C9EA408D059F5A5E@SOVEREIGN>

Jumping in a little late, and moving backwards in time, but...

> From "I, Robot" and others, the Three Laws of Robotics.  (I 
> just happen to have been rereading this on the weekend, 
> so I guess the thought stuck.)
> 
> First Law was "A robot may not injure a human being or, through
> inaction, allow a human to come to harm".
> 
> Second: "A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings
> except where such orders would conflict with the First Law".
> 
> Third: "A robot must protect its own existence as long as such
> protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law".
> 
> * * *

Actually, it's Four Laws: you've forgotten the Zeroth Law. Roughly
paraphrased (it's been something like 10 years since I read it), mankind
precedes men. Something like, "A robot may not injure humankind or, through
inaction, allow humankind to come to harm". The needs of the many outweigh
the needs of the few (or the one). In light of that...

> > PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code
> 
> If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.
> 
> And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.
> 
> -objectifying-tim-ly yr's,
> Peter

...might want to reconsider the advice. If the bot tho't that the list would
be better off without certain noxious comments, or the innocuous for that
matter....

Hmm...
Scott





From sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com  Wed Mar 20 19:28:28 2002
From: sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:28:28 -0000
Subject: tkinter menuitem question
References: <mailman.1016634429.30440.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7b9db$j22$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

I've just done this tonight with this code:
[snip]
class GenericCallback:
 def __init__(self, callback, *firstArgs):
  self.__callback = callback
  self.__firstArgs = firstArgs
 def __call__(self, *lastArgs):
  apply(self.__callback, self.__firstArgs + lastArgs)
[/snip]
[snip]
  self.zone=Zones("D:\DAoC")
  self.zonemenu = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)

  self.albionmenu=Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
  self.midgardmenu=Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
  self.hibernianmenu=Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)

  for x in range(len(self.zone.locations)):
   menuName=self.zone.locations[x][0]+" : "+self.zone.locations[x][1]
   zoneNumber=int(self.zone.locations[x][0])

   if zoneNumber<100:
    self.albionmenu.add_command(label=menuName,
command=GenericCallback(self.zoneSelected, zoneNumber))
   elif zoneNumber>100 and zoneNumber<200:
    self.hibernianmenu.add_command(label=menuName,
command=GenericCallback(self.zoneSelected, zoneNumber))
   elif zoneNumber>200 and zoneNumber<300:
    self.midgardmenu.add_command(label=menuName,
command=GenericCallback(self.zoneSelected, zoneNumber))

  self.zonemenu.add_cascade(label="Albion", menu=self.albionmenu)
  self.zonemenu.add_cascade(label="Midgard", menu=self.midgardmenu)
  self.zonemenu.add_cascade(label="Hibernia", menu=self.hibernianmenu)
  self.menubar.add_cascade(label="Zone", menu=self.zonemenu)
[/snip]
[snip]
 # Zone menu commands
 def zoneSelected(self, zone):
  print zone
[/snip]

make sense?

G. Willoughby

"Ken Guest" <kwg at renre-europe.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016634429.30440.python-list at python.org...
> ok, I might be way off here but is there a way with a collection of
> Tkinter menuitems that all have their callbacks set to be the one
> function to determine which menuitem was clicked on?
>
> for example, given the snippet:
>
>
>         menubar1=Pmw.MenuBar(vbox1)
>         menubar1.addmenu('TopLvlMenu','this is a tooltip')
>         menubar1.addcascademenu('TopLvlMenu', 'Item#6','tool tip for
> item 6')
>         menubar1.addmenuitem('Item#6', 'command', '',
> label="item#7",underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
>         menubar1.addmenuitem('Item#6', 'command', 'oct', label="item#8",
>         underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
>         menubar1.addmenuitem('TopLvlMenu', 'command', 'naoi',
> label="item#9", underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
>         menubar1.addmenuitem('TopLvlMenu', 'separator', '')
>         menubar1.addmenuitem('TopLvlMenu', 'command', '',
> label="item10", underline=0, command=menu_item_selected)
>         menubar1.pack(expand=NO, side=TOP)
>
>
> Is it possible to give these menuitems the one handler function/callback
> function that can determine which item was clicked on?
> The reason for asking is that I have a dynamically generated cascading
> popup menu and need to know which menuitem has been selected.
>
> I have thought of displaying a very small dialog box which would only
> contain a combobox and nothing else. the dialog box would be unloaded
> once the user selects an item from the combobox but this wouldn't really
> work as there need to be cascaded entries.
>
> any ideas?
>
> k.
>
>
>




From joonas at olen.to  Wed Mar  6 12:29:13 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:29:13 +0200
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk> <3C84E363.6020106@olen.to> <3C84EBED.8090607@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3C8651E9.493CDA64@olen.to>

Simon Willison wrote:
> 
> Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> > Simon Willison wrote:
> >
> >> I've written a simple Python script to scan a bunch of URLs for "live"
> >> sites and grab the title of those pages. It works by using popen() to
> >> call lynx and analyse the HTTP response:
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> command = "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"
> >
> >
> > Use:
> >
> > command=["/opt/bin/lynx","-mime_header","http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"]
> >
> > for better security.
> 
> I'm a Python newbie :) How does that makes things more secure?

If you pass a string to os.popen as the first argument, the process is
envoiked
by by running the argument in shell. That can cause problems if the
string is composed from non-safe variables. Imagine situation where
variable 'user' is "; rm -fR ~/; echo ". That causes command
"/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~; rm -fR ~/; echo /"
to be run in shell.
But if a list is passed to os.popen, os.popen will run a program named
in the first item of
the list with the rest of the list as arguments.

- Joonas


From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 17:24:09 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:24:09 GMT
Subject: Telnet
References: <yAqm8.1723$Tk.98335@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns91D8D7543A398cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <d4tm8.2110$oi.93984@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thanks!  "\r\n" is the key.  It works after I added into the write().
functon

Okay, now I have 2 more questions.

1) How can I save the returned data into a list?  I tried to use the
read_all() function, but it just stops there.

tn.read_until("ending line")
lines = []
lines = tn.read_all()

2) I was also trying to do this,

tn.read_until("beginnig line to grap")
lines = []
lines = tn.read_until("ending line")

for line in lines
     print line

But it prints one character in each line

Any input will helps,. thanks!

Billy Ng


"Chris Liechti" <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:Xns91D8D7543A398cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82...
> "Billy Ng" <evebill8 at hotmail.com> wrote in news:yAqm8.1723$Tk.98335
> @newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
> > I am trying to write a telnet client program.  Here is the code:
> >
> > ID = "123445"
> > PASSWORD = "333"
> >
> > try:
> >    tn = telnetlib.Telnet(<host>)
> >    tn.read_until("Please enter your id? ")
> >    tn.write(ID+"\n")
> >    tn.read_until("Enter your password? ")
> >    tn.write(PASSWORD+"\n")
> >    print tn.read_all()
> >    tn.close()
> > except:
> >    tn.close()
> >    print 'connection failed'
> > tn.close()
> >
> > It stops after the ID was written.  If I use the actual telnet
> > client, it returns "Enter your password? " after my ID is
> > submitted.  why does not tn.read_until() find  the "Enter your
> > password? " string ?  Is there any other way to handle the password
> > prompt?
>
> don't write the entire prompt in read_all. insteand use
> read_all("word?")
> this way you circumwent problems with additional spaces, case atc.
>
> and make sure that your server works with just a "\n", maybe it needs
> a "\r\n".
>
> HTH chris
>
> --
> Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>
>
>




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Wed Mar 27 00:08:26 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:08:26 GMT
Subject: python, cvs, win32 -- slightly ot
Message-ID: <etco8.1685$d7.551829@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

i have registered and had approved a project on sourceforge.  never having
used cvs before, i am looking for some help on how to use cvs with python
files on win2k.  any links on where to look?

project-to-be-anounced-as-as-soon-as-possible ly 'yrs

doug






From mcherm at destiny.com  Fri Mar 22 13:11:55 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:55 -0500
Subject: Popular style document?
Message-ID: <3C9B73EB.8020803@destiny.com>

>> IMO the requirement to say self everywhere in methods is the worst
>> feature of python.
> 
> How come Python doesn't have an "automatic" this-variable, like C++ or
> Java?

The short answer is quite simple: that's how Guido likes it.

A much better answer would be to point out that LOTS of people like it. 
Also there are others who DISLIKE it, and probably a few who don't 
really care (although for some reason they never seem to get into these 
debates ;-)), but if you accept that there are some advantages to 
"automatic" access to instance variables like C++/Java and other 
advantages to "explicit" access like Python, then it shouldn't come as a 
surprise that there are some languages of each time. Python just happens 
to fall into the category that requires you to be explicit.

To really appreciate this, of course, you'd like to hear what some of 
the advantages of each approach are... here's my brief attempt to 
summarize a few important points:

Advantages of "Automatic" access to instance variables:
   * Less typing.
   * Somewhat more convenient to use objects (because you don't have to
     type "self." in front of instance variable accesses. Mostly about
     there being less typing.)

Advantages of "Explicit" access to instance variables
   * You never get confused about where a variable came from. A simple
     search through the text of the file will identify where it was
     defined. With "automatic" access, it could be an instance variable
     of a superclass defined elsewhere.
   * It's easy to tell instance variables apart from local variables
     (usually not a big deal, but sometimes (eg: while worrying about
     multi-threaded behavior) it can be).
   * Functions and Methods have a VERY simple relationship... methods
     are just functions that take an instance as their first parameter.
     This allows you to do things like "myObject.getFoo = myGetFooFunc",
     to create a new method.

I'm not expecting this list of advantages to convince anyone, but if you 
understand where other people are coming from, you can better understand 
why this feature/misfeature would be found in a language.

-- Michael Chermside






From BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com  Wed Mar 20 10:41:37 2002
From: BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:41:37 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016636073.1372.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Q42m8.6318$Gf.244197@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

<kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016636073.1372.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Peter Hansen wrote:
>
>
> The problem I have with someone learning lots of languages is that most of
> what I have seen is that they never go beyond a surface level
> understanding of the language. So you end up seeing people that can
> essentially write C in any language or java etc. However in order to be
> really productive you need to know a language and know it very well. I
> would rather see someone that can demonstrate higher level mastery  with
> one language then a surface level with many. You can't get to more
> advanced features until you understand all of the basic features. However
> once you learn those features you are in a better position to apply them
> in another language.
The way that a former boss described one of my co-workers was that his code
looked like he sneezed, and C++ tokens came out on the screen.

The thing that you have to get used to is that you aren't going to get hired
for jobs that require knowledge and experience outside of programming that
you lack. If you don't have a solid math background, you are not going to
get hired to do heavy DSP programming, or develop 3d graphics engines. I
don't have a database background, so I know that I'm not going to get jobs
that require that (that one is intentional).

Figure out what kind of work you want to do and put yourself in a position
to be able to do it. Don't worry about how long it will take -- you'll be 4
years older in 4 years whether you spend that time learning things or not.
Developing a skill set because someone told you that it was a path to a
'good job' is setting you up to be like people I knew in college who studied
business (or law or medicine, or...) because some counselor had told them it
was the path to the good life, not because they were interested in the
field. They hated 4 years of college (except for the girls and drinking) and
I can't imagine what kind of hollow, miserable, time-to-make-the-donuts kind
of life they have now.





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar 28 08:33:06 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:33:06 -0500
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <mailman.1017265646.6616.python-list@python.org> <a7tgkv$t3m$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <MYEo8.44167$cB5.11469@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"jimh" <jim at jim.jim> wrote in message news:a7tgkv$t3m$1 at web1.cup.hp.com...
> >
[...]
>
> I will have to think about that one.  When a class accesses the
> MessageCatalog, it may be requesting message text from _other_ classes'
> errors.  Also, these are often called from cgi scripts, so they are run as
a
> one-shot deal.  Also(!), the case of an error is (theoretically) uncommon
> and the MessageCatalog is only instantiated if an error occurs.  That way,
> if no error occurs, there is no overhead with importing the
MessageCatalog.
>
Bear in mind that the import will only cause the module to be executed once
no matter how many times it is imported. So importing it may not be as much
of an ovberhead as you imagine (especially since you seem to be happy to
import fifty other modules to make up your program).

regards
 Steve





From mrlee at davesupply.com  Tue Mar  5 16:40:34 2002
From: mrlee at davesupply.com (Mr.Lee)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:40:34 GMT
Subject: Updating Python...Newbie alert!
References: <n3ah8.112697$Hu6.28510292@typhoon.neo.rr.com> <Xns91C8E16569949cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <mXah8.112719$Hu6.28541419@typhoon.neo.rr.com>

        How new am I?  I am this new: when I typed 'make install'
went into it's proper place!  I didn't quite finish the proper
procedures.  Ya lern sumthin' new ev'ryday.

Thanks,
Lee

Chris Liechti wrote:

> "Mr.Lee" <mrlee at davesupply.com> wrote in news:n3ah8.112697
> $Hu6.28510292 at typhoon.neo.rr.com:
>> Hi all,
>>         Being quite new to Linux, I am having a bit of a problem
>> when it comes to updating my installed version of Python(1.5.2) to
>> the version that I have now(2.2).
>>         My problem is that I compiled Python in the directory that
>> I  downloaded and now I don't know where to put all of the files
>> that were generated!  It works, I ran the tests and it all came out
>> fine, but I just don't know where to put the files for maximum
>> efficiency.
> 
> usualy one does "./configure;make;make install" and the "make
> install" places the files where they belong (in subdirectories of
> /usr/local/ usualy)
> 
> chris
> 

-- 
-------------------------------------
Dave Supply Company
Industrial Diesel Power & Generators
(330) 798-0215 Phone
www.davesupply.com


From r.salz at verizon.net  Wed Mar 20 23:31:39 2002
From: r.salz at verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 04:31:39 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016524290.13974.python-list@python.org> <A2F124616A415A90.905029C2E4C51EB9.602FB306F71F6138@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3C996234.9090506@verizon.net>


Cameron Laird wrote:
> I'm still looking for a way to get this point across:  the
> answer to many questions is, "There's no such thing."  No
> one plays the role for Python that Sun plays for Java.

Hmm..  Both provide a reference implementation, both provide a community 
process for suggesting improvements (but still retain the right to do 
what they think best)...  what's missing?
	/r$




From p.magwene at snet.net  Sat Mar  9 17:13:29 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul M)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:13:29 GMT
Subject: ANN: disipyl - a 2D and 3D Python plotting library
Message-ID: <dOvi8.6453$jn1.1497512061@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>

DESCRIPTION:
-----------
    disipyl is an object-oriented wrapper around the DISLIN plotting
library.  DISLIN is a powerful and flexible multiplatform (Win32,
Unix, Linux, etc.) library designed for displaying scientific data.
DISLIN's author, Helmut Michels, has made available a DISLIN plotting
extension for the Python programming language (see
http://www.linmpi.mpg.de/dislin/ for more details).

    disipyl provides a set of classes which represent various aspects
of DISLIN plots, as well as providing some easy to use classes for
creating commonly used plot formats (e.g. scatter plots, histograms,
3-D surface plots).  A major goal in designing the library was to
facilitate interactive data exploration and plot creation.

    Documentation, a tutorial, and a demo program are included.  The library
has
been tested on Win32, Linux, and FreeBSD, but I anticipate that it should
work
on any platform which can make use of Python, NumPy, and the DISLIN
python extensions.

    Feedback, comments, and critique are gladly accepted (email:
paul.magwene at yale.edu).


VERSION:
-------
    This is release 0.5 of disipyl.

HISTORY:
-------
    disipyl is a complete re-write of an earlier plotting library called
pxDislin.  While similar in spirit, disipyl is much more flexible and much
more easier to use than pxDislin.

URL:
----
    You can find disipyl at:
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~pmm34/disipyl.html



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 18 16:07:06 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:07:06 -0600
Subject: dealing with paths, multiple OS versions, cgi's
In-Reply-To: <20020318192717.6A92617E88@juniper.its.swarthmore.edu>
References: <20020318192717.6A92617E88@juniper.its.swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <15510.22266.778563.888982@beluga.mojam.com>

    Glenn> What I need is some method for stripping off the basename
    Glenn> regardless of the browser OS.

How about something like:

    >>> import re
    >>> re.sub(r".*[\\/:]", "", r"c:\temp\file.doc")
    'file.doc'
    >>> re.sub(r".*[\\/:]", "", r"/home/user/file.doc")
    'file.doc'

(":" should catch mac paths I think.)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Mar 14 12:53:32 2002
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:53:32 +0100
Subject: Why I think range is a wart
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6qlne$1md4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <a6qo2u$t0e$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

> for item1, item2 in list1, list2
>    # lots of code here

class ZipOnTheFly:
    def __init__ (self, *lists):
        self.lists = lists
        self.elementSize = len (lists)

    def __getitem__ (self, index):
        result = [None] * self.elementSize
        for i in range (self.elementSize):
            result [i] = self.lists [i] [index]
        return result

for elem0, elem1 in ZipOnTheFly (list0, list1):
    <whatever>

This at least avoids some memory overhead if list0 and list1 are large.
Actually, the iterator based version looks cleaner (and doesn't iterate over
the indicees, which was the start of this thread)

def __init__ (self, *lists):
    self.iters = map (iter, lists)

def next (self):
    return [elem.next () for elem in self.iters]

Daniel





From s.ernst at web.de  Fri Mar 15 10:49:58 2002
From: s.ernst at web.de (Sascha Ernst)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:49:58 +0100
Subject: further infos
References: <a6srv3$tbo$00$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1016198905.10172.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6t57s$rsc$07$1@news.t-online.com>

please have a look at my posting one line below
sorry for the misunderstanding, again

"Michael Stenner" <mstenner at phy.duke.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1016198905.10172.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 02:11:43PM +0100, Sascha Ernst wrote:
> > 1. "command not found" is the error message. how can I get more detailed
> > infos?
> > 2. the dev tools are ok, I compiled Ruby some days ago successfully
>
> whaaa?
>
> 1) this is a python list... not a ruby list...
>
> 2) I'll try and employ my ESP anyway:
>
>    "command not found" is a common shell error.  Are you running
>    (python or ruby, whatever) under unix?  If so, do you have the
>    proper shebang?
>
>    For example, your files should probably start with
>
>    #!/usr/bin/env python
>
>    If this isn't there, the file will usually be interpreted as a
>    shell script and almost certainly throw errors.  This can be
>    unpleasant if the first non-comment is an import :)
>
> 3) you get more detailed infos when you give us more detailed infos :)
>
> -Michael
> --
>   Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
>   Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
>   Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305
>




From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar 30 11:33:52 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:33:52 GMT
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <NBBBIOJPGKJEKIECEMCBMELCMKAA.pobrien@orbtech.com> <mailman.1017498181.30622.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QNlp8.142590$af7.71296@rwcrnsc53>

[is this an April fool's joke?  I hate it when I get caught in one of
these!  Here's my reply anyway, just in case...]

-1*0

With my memory not reaching as far back as others, I thought I'd look
into prior discussions on this.  I started at
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=boolean+type+%22not+not%22+group:comp.
lang.python
expecting that the conjunction of asking about 'boolean' and 'type',
with the expected reply to use the pydiom 'not not' would land me right
in the thick of things.

I got a single page.  There isn't a history of need here.  I then
scanned the 2.2 standard library (thinking of it as the standard bearer
for python code) for true/false usage, as Guido cited standardization of
usage as a primary objective.  I found a _false, a reference in
ConfigParser to states, and a Boolean class in xmlrpclib.  Anyone can
today import boolean, True and False from xlmrpclib and have this
functionality and standardization.  Enforcing it's use, in light of the
backwards-compatibility allowances included in the PEP, is no different
than enforcing the use of True or False in code as long as 0 and 1
suffice.

On the down side, this PEP breaks code by changing the outcome of
virtually *all* comparisons.  Hopefully in non-code-breaking fashion.
And that the change is restricted to the 28 identified built-ins.  And
that the mods to them do not introduce bugs or unforeseen
incompatibilities.  Tall order for what had been expected to be a
clean-up release.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From ira at quasarlabs.com  Mon Mar 11 08:19:27 2002
From: ira at quasarlabs.com (Ira Voitashevskaya)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:19:27 +0200
Subject: rpm-python question
Message-ID: <3C8CAEDF.697CEA3F@quasarlabs.com>

Hi!
I need to use rmp module (rpm-python-4.0.1-0.20). Where can I get
docmentation for it?

Thank you.
Best regards.
Ira Voitashevskaya.



From paul at boddie.net  Mon Mar 18 05:59:49 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 02:59:49 -0800
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <mailman.1016224116.19523.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203180259.26e87496@posting.google.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016224116.19523.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Rather than add a new module, why not add more functionality to the
> urlparse module in the standard distribution? (what functionality do you
> need beyond what's already there, anyway?)

I wouldn't want to add a new module - it's most interesting to tidy up
what's already there, adding better "split" functions to urllib (and
urllib2), and adding some "join" functions too. I certainly wouldn't
advocate adding a huge dependency on some other library, even though
some interesting candidates exist.

Such improvements are applicable to other Internet modules in the
standard library, too - nntplib might be a good low-level vehicle for
accessing news servers, but just about anyone who is likely to be
using NNTP is going to be wrapping calls to that module inside
meaningful abstractions.

Paul


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar  6 14:41:13 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:41:13 -0800
Subject: Pep 276 - if 6 were 9
Message-ID: <OF6685A692.8640D26E-ON88256B74.006BB365@i2.com>

An interesting observation.

Plus I really like the Hendrix reference <wink>.

Jim

=====================================


<Emile>
If, in the beginning, Guido opted to call 'in' 'of', would there be a
question of iterating over an integer?

For example,

for each of range(6):
for each of mylist:
for each of 6:

I'm not advocating a change here, but just wondering how thinking in
terms of 'in' vs 'of' might influence the debate.  Or am I too far on
the supporting side to appreciate that this has no bearing on it
what-so-ever-thank-you-very-much?  ;-)

<aside>
This came to me as I showered -- does that make it a sodden thought?
;-)
</aside>

--

Emile van Sebille

</Emile>




From ljohnson at resgen.com  Wed Mar  6 10:50:16 2002
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:50:16 -0600
Subject: output file name for *.py
References: <a27c5cd4.0203060243.4f73587e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u8ce8s38irq029@corp.supernews.com>

> swig -python -c++ -shadow -o path/interface_wrap.cxx interface.i
>
> This creates two files:
>
> path/interface_wrap.cxx
>
> and interface.py in the *local* directory.
>
> How can I specify a different output directory for interface.py?

Which version of SWIG is this? The current development version of SWIG (from
CVS) places the *.py file in the same output directory as the *.cxx file.

> According to Lutz, Programming Python, 2nd edition, p. 1139,
> also a third file interface_wrap.doc should be created.
> Why is this file not created? Do I need an additional option?

The old documentation system from SWIG 1.1 has been disabled/removed for
SWIG 1.3. It may reappear at some point.




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar  1 01:23:59 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:23:59 -0500
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c1c0e1$d9045940$0101010a@local>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEHBOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Chris Gonnerman]
> In the PC subdir of the Python-2.1.2 build directory is a module
> called getpathp.c, which sets up the initial sys.path value.  It
> is well known by Python programmers on Windows that the sys.path
> initialization includes directories plucked from special registry
> keys... unless you are using the PythonWare version.

Or the PythonLabs distribution:  while the core installer does set up a
registry entry containing "the usual" Python path, it *normally* never uses
it.  Read the long comment block at the start of getpathp.c, and this time
believe that it means what it says <wink>.  Note that the core installer
never sets up what the comment block calls "'application paths' - that is,
sub-keys under the main PythonPath registry key".  If there aren't any
application paths, then, as the rest of the comment block says, the main
PythonPath key is ignored, unless a "Python Home" isn't given by a
PYTHONHOME envar and can't be guessed from the python.exe path.

> I thought, great, I can use this (the PythonWare version) to create
> Python runnables on CD-ROM; but now I discover a fly in the ointment.
> If the computer already has an installed Python interpreter, the
> paths set in the registry are added, and BEFORE the paths from the
> PythonWare PYROOT variable are added.

AFAIK PythonWare doesn't ship with a custom getpathp.c, and neither does
ActiveState, so AFAIK the comment block applies to all Python installations.
The "PythonWare PYROOT variable" is news to me, google hasn't heard of it
either, and I find no mention of PYROOT in my PythonWare PY21 installation.
Setting a PYROOT envar has no visible effect on sys.path when I run under
PY21 either.  That's a long-winded way of saying I think you must be
confused <wink>.

Have you tried setting PYTHONHOME?  If, e.g., I set PYTHONHOME to \Python22,
then execute python while *in* my \Python21 directory (these both referring
to PythonLabs distros), then Python 2.1.2 comes up with sys.path pointing
entirely at Python 2.2 directories.  This is insane, but shows that
PYTHONHOME works the way getpathp.c says it works.

> Gah.
>
> What I want is a version of either python.exe or python21.dll
> (whichever contains the offending getpathp.c module) with the
> registry-probing code disabled.

If that's what you really want, you'll have to edit getpathp.c and compile
your own Python.

> Ideally it should still apply the paths from PYROOT (basically in this
> case it must).

Python doesn't look at any such envar on any platform.  Maybe that's why
setting PYROOT isn't doing you any good <wink>.  Try PYTHONHOME.




From r.weisser at att.net  Thu Mar 28 17:30:46 2002
From: r.weisser at att.net (Robert Weisser)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:30:46 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question about os.removedirs()
Message-ID: <qQMo8.10948$Eb5.982772@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Hello:

A am new to Python and to newsgroups.  In fact this is my first post.

Since my backup batch file from my Win98 computer would not work
on my new Win2000 computer (no more deltree), I wrote the following
backup Python script (my first not totally trivial Python program).

I wanted to make it as Pythonesque as possible, but I had a problem
with the os.removedirs function.  It would not delete a directory tree
if the tree contained a read only file.  Actually it may have deleted
part of the tree before failing.  I should have checked but didn't.

I assume os.removedirs is calling os.remove.  At the interactive prompt
I tried os.remove on an individual read-only file, which also failed.
The error is OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:  filename.

If I have to, I will write a recursive function which uses os.remove in
a try block.  If os.remove fails I will change the mode of the file.  I
assume Python supports the equivalent of unix chmod (haven't checked yet).
However, it would be nicer if there is an option to os.removedirs so
that I won't have to do this.

Because I am new to Python (although not to programming) comments
on the code would also be appreciated.  I apologize for its length.

IMPORTANT (to me, anyway) NEWBIE QUESTION:  What does Debian mean?

Here is my code with sample input files following.  The problem
statement is 16 lines from the end.

# BackupToZip.py

""" Backup selected directories or files to the zip drive, normally e:
    Files and directories used:
        COMPFILE - contains name of computer being backup up
        DIRFILE - contains list of dirs to backup
        FILEFILE - contains list of files to backup
        DRIVEFILE - contains letter of zip drive (target drive)
        INDICATOR - a file on the backup desk which confirms that
            the disk is a backup up disk for this computer.  For
            example, if the computer is named bentley, there should
            do a file named bentley_backup_disk on the backup disk.
     If it is not there, the program warns the user and
     then offers to create the indicator file for the
     next time.
        SCRIPTDIR - directory containing this program
            and the three files above
"""

# improvements needed:
#  use os.removedirs(dirName) instead of
#    os.system('rmdir /s/q ' + quoteit(dirName))
#  make the directory listing for the user portable
#  make it possible to exclude files and directories from
#    the backup

# the commented out print statements were used for debugging

import glob, os, sys, string, shutil

COMPFILENAME = 'CompName.txt'     # this file contains name of computer,
                                                         #  e.g. bentley
DIRFILENAME = 'DirList.txt'       # this file contains the list of
                                                       #  directories to be
backed up
FILEFILENAME = 'FileList.txt'     # this file contains the list of
                                  #  individual files to be backup up
                                 #  (may contain wild cards)
DRIVEFILENAME = 'ZipLetter.txt'   # this file contains the drive letter
                                                          #  of the zip
drive
SCRIPTDIR = sys.path[0]    # directory containing this script
INDICATORSUFFIX = '_backup_disk'  # used to construct indicator
                                                               #  file name,
e. g.
                                                              #
bentley_backup_disk
LINE = '-' * 70

def getListFromFile(fileName):
    """ read a list from a file.
        ignore comments and blank lines.
    """
    lines = open(fileName).readlines()
    return cleanLines(lines)

def getLetterFromFile(fileName):
    """ get one letter from a file.
        ignore comments and blank lines.
    """
    lines = open(fileName).readlines()
    lines = cleanLines(lines)
    return lines[0][:1]

def getFirstLineFromFile(fileName):
    """ get a name from a file.
        ignore comments and blank lines.
    """
    lines =  open(fileName).readlines()
    lines = cleanLines(lines)
    return lines[0]

def cleanLines(lines):
    """ remove newlines, comments, and blank lines from
        a list of lines
    """
    res = []
    for line in lines:
        line = removeComment(line).strip() # remove comments and white space
        if line:       # ignore zero length lines
            res.append(line)
    return res

def removeComment(line):
    """ remove comments from lines.
        a comment starts with a '#' and continues to the
        end of the line.
    """
    try:
        i = line.index('#')
        line = line[:i]
    except ValueError:
        pass
    return line

def caseInsensitiveCompare(arg1, arg2):
    "case insensitive compare for use with filter and sort"
    return cmp(string.lower(arg1), string.lower(arg2))

def getAns(msg, *values):
    """ Prompts using msg and the items in values.
        Reads in an answer until the user enters one of the
        items in values.  Returns the answer.
        Example:  when called as getAns("junk", "y", "n"), the
        prompt is "junk (y/n)? ".
        The items should be single characters.  Only the first
        letter of the response is used.
    """
    valString = string.join(values, '/')
    ans = None
    while ans not in values:
        ans = string.lower(raw_input(msg + ' (' + valString + ')? ')[0])
    return ans

def backupDir(dirName, driveRoot):
    """ copies the dirName directory to the root directory
        of the target drive.
    """
    print LINE
    if not os.path.isdir(dirName):
        print 'can not backup: ', dirName, '(not found or is not a
directory)'
        return
    targetName = driveRoot[0:2] + dirName[2:]
    targetDir = os.path.dirname(targetName)
    createDir(targetDir)
    print 'backing up: ', dirName
    print '        to: ', targetName
    shutil.copytree(dirName, targetName)
    # the non-Python method which I used at first:
    # xcopyCmd = 'xcopy /s/e ' + quoteit(dirName) + ' ' +
quoteit(targetName)
    # print xcopyCmd
    # rc = os.system(xcopyCmd)
    # print 'Return code from xcopy: ', rc

def backupFile(fileName, driveRoot):
    """ first run glob on the fileName to get all files whose names match
        the fileName pattern, then copy them to the backup drive.
    """
    print LINE
    fileList = glob.glob(fileName)
    if not fileList:
        print 'can not backup: ', fileName, '(not found)'
        return
    targetPattern = driveRoot[0:2] + fileName[2:]
    targetDir = os.path.dirname(targetPattern)
    createDir(targetDir)
    print 'backing up: ', fileName
    print '        to: ', targetPattern
    for filen in fileList:
        if os.path.isfile(filen):
     targetFile = driveRoot[0:2] + filen[2:]
     print filen
     print '  -->', targetFile
     shutil.copy2(filen, targetFile)
 else:
     print 'can not backup: ', filen, '(not a regular file)'

def createDir(dirName):
    "create a directory if it does not exist"
    if dirName != driveRoot and not os.path.exists(dirName):
        print 'creating', dirName
        print
        os.makedirs(dirName)

def quoteit(str):
    "put quotes around a string"
    return '"' + str + '"'

# this function is not used in this program,
# although I originally planned to use it.
def rmtreeError(func, path, excinfo):
    "error handler for shutil.rmtree"
    print `func`, 'error: ', path
    print excinfo

# ----- start of processing -----

# important variables:

# delDirList:  directories on target drive which will be deleted
# delFileList:   files on target drive which will be deleted
# dirList:  directories to back up
# fileList:  files to back up

# read the configuration files

print
print "Starting backup"

os.chdir(SCRIPTDIR)
# print 'starting dir:', os.getcwd()

backupDrive = getLetterFromFile(DRIVEFILENAME) # drive letter
print 'Backup will take place on Drive', backupDrive
driveRoot = backupDrive + ':\\'

compName = getFirstLineFromFile(COMPFILENAME) # name of this computer
print 'Computer name: ', compName

dirList = getListFromFile(DIRFILENAME)  # directories to back up
dirList.sort(caseInsensitiveCompare)
# print 'Directories to back up: ', dirList

fileList = getListFromFile(FILEFILENAME) # files (patterns)
      #  to back up
fileList.sort(caseInsensitiveCompare)
# print 'Files to backup up: ', fileList

# change directory to the backup drive

rc = os.chdir(driveRoot)
# I used the Windows dir command here because I wanted
# the output to be the familiar Windows dir command output.
# I may make this more portable if I start using it elsewhere.
print
rc = os.system('dir /o')

delFileList = os.listdir('.')
delFileList.sort(caseInsensitiveCompare)
delDirList = filter(os.path.isdir, delFileList)   # dirs on target drive
# print 'delDirList:', delDirList    #  which will be deleted
delFileList = filter(os.path.isfile, delFileList) # files on target drive
# print 'delFileList:', delFileList    #  which will be deleted

indicatorFileName = compName + INDICATORSUFFIX
if indicatorFileName in delFileList:
    delFileList.remove(indicatorFileName)
else:
    print
    print 'Indicator file', indicatorFileName, 'not found in', driveRoot
    print 'Are you sure this is a', compName, 'backup disk?'
    ans = getAns('Do you want to continue?', 'y', 'n')
    if ans == 'y':
        print
        print 'creating file', indicatorFileName
        indFile = open(indicatorFileName, 'w') # create the indicator file
        indFile.close()    #  as an empty file
    else:
        print 'Backup cancelled'
 raw_input('Press <enter> to continue:')
        sys.exit('Program terminated by user request')

print
print 'WARNING:  all files and directories on drive ' + backupDrive + ':
except'
print '          the file', indicatorFileName, ' will be deleted.'
ans = getAns('          Continue', 'y', 'n')
if ans == 'n':
    print 'Backup cancelled'
    raw_input('Press <enter> to continue:')
    sys.exit('Program terminated by user request')

# remove the directories on the backup drive

for fileName in delFileList:
    print 'Removing', fileName
    os.remove(fileName)

# remove the files on the backup drive

for dirName in delDirList:
    print 'Removing directory', dirName
    rmCmd = 'rmdir /s/q ' + quoteit(dirName)
    # I had to use non-portable os.system call (see note on os.removedirs
line)
    # print 'rmCmd:', rmCmd
    os.system(rmCmd)
    # os.removedirs(dirName) # would not remove a directory
       # tree with a readonly file in it

# finally, do the backup.

# first copy the complete directories:
for dirName in dirList:
    backupDir(dirName, driveRoot)

# now do the files:
for fileName in fileList:
    backupFile(fileName, driveRoot)

print LINE
print 'Backup has been completed'
raw_input('Press <enter> to continue:')

---------------- end of code -------------------

Contents of CompName.txt:

    # The name of the computer being backed up.
    # The program checks for a file called compname_backup_disk
    # on the backup disk and prints a warning if it is not found.

    bentley

------------------------------------------------

Contents of DirList.txt:

    # List of Directories which will be copied to the zip drive
    # The drive letters must be included in the directory names

    C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Paul Weisser\My Documents
    C:\My Installations
    C:\RPW
    C:\Junk\Stuff
    C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Paul Weisser\Application Data

------------------------------------------------

Contents of FileList.txt:

    # Files to backed up.
    # File name metacharacters are allowed.
    # The drive letters must be included in the file names

    C:\Appl1\*.cpp
    C:\Appl1\*.xls

    C:\Appl2\*.cpp
    C:\Appl2\*.xls

------------------------------------------------

Contents of ZipLetter.txt:

    # The drive letter of the backup drive (normally a zip drive).
    # Everything after the first character is ignored.

    E

------------------------------------------------

Thanks,
Robert Weisser (r.xweisser at att.net)
(take out the x - I see other people doing this so I guess it's a
good idea)




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 19 16:58:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 21:58:42 GMT
Subject: How to count pixels of a color in an image?
References: <6b7cc392.0203191233.26760fc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a78cai$8lp$0@216.39.172.122>

On 19 Mar 2002 12:33:36 -0800, jjv5 at yahoo.com (jjv5) wrote:

>A simple question perhaps. Any help is appreciated.
>I need to count the number of pixels that are purple or blue-green in
>a large image. I can do this with the Image module easily enough,
>but it is painfully slow.  I do something like this:
>
>green=0
>purple=0
>dat = im.getdata()
>for i in range(len(dat)):
>     r,g,b = dat[i][0],dat[i][1],dat[i][2]
I suspect python will do the unpacking for you, assuming rgb pixels,
and you don't seem to be doing anything with i other than indexing.
>     green = green + (( b>r) and (g>r))
>     purple = purple + ((r>g) and (b>g))
These would seem to compute and add a lot of zeroes. Also r>g amd g>r
can't be true for both green and purple, so I'd reorder and get some
advantage from shortcut evaluation, e.g., combining the above, I'd try:

    # (untested)
    green=o
    purple=0
    dat = im.getdata()
    for r,g,b in dat:
        if g>r and b>r:
            green += 1
        elif r>g and b>g:
            purple += 1

After that maybe psyco, or maybe something in the histogram feature can be hooked?

>The slow part is the for loop over the image data. Even if the loop
>body is empty it still takes about 15 seconds on a fast computer. the
>getdata function takes about 3 seconds. Surely there is a better way.
>The image
>is about 3800 by 3000 pixels. Any suggestions?
>
>
HTH,

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 21:32:05 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:32:05 -0800
Subject: bug reporting
References: <mailman.1016412590.22637.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a72nf6.3vs5lk7.1@kserver.org>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:41:22 -0500, "Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016412590.22637.python-list at python.org>:

> In thread  "Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2"
> 
> Martin writes -
> >If you think you found a bug, submit a bug report.
> 
> It could waste time of the developers to have to
> weed through false alarm bug reports.  One of the
> roles of this list is to vet some of these issues.

Yes, that is sort of what I am hoping for, when I post stuff here. I've
gotten a lot of "submit it as a bug report" responses, more recently.
Anyhow, the one in the thread you continued this from...I have now
submitted it as a bug report. However, as I continue to work on this
problem (sort of trying to see if I can fix it or at least see if I can
understand what's causing it), I'm not so sure it will end up to be a bug
report after all. It may end up to be a problem in my own code.  :/

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Sun Mar 31 19:03:09 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 00:03:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <m3ofh6s2ux.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <200203301342.g2UDgTE01572@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>  <mailman.1017504601.26526.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaaf8tt.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <mailman.1017504601.26526.python-list at python.org>, Fred L.
Drake, Jr. wrote:
>
>Guido van Rossum writes:
> > You've been staring at standards too much, haven't you?  The
> > difference between MUST and SHOULD isn't as clear-cut as most
> > standards people use them.
>
>Most standards define MUST and SHOULD very specifically, and then use
>them according to those definitions.  There's an IETF RFC
>specifically for use in writing RFCs, allowing those terms to be
>defined by reference.  A number of W3C specs seems to be using this
>definition-by-reference as well, with the same RFC providing the
>actual definitions.
>
>I think we'd do well to accept a specific definition of these terms
>and use them consistently, simply to make our documentation
>(including docstrings) easier to understand.
>

How about defining a new deontic type with the values Must and
Should...? Hm. Doesn't make much sense, I guess :)

>
>  -Fred

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Fri Mar  8 08:13:19 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:13:19 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 3/8/02 7:29 AM, in article u8hbcgr35p4f4 at news.supernews.com, "John Roth"
<johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:

> Part of the speedup was relentless optimization by the various Java
> licencees, and part was "just in time" compilation. So far, nobody has
> worked on a JIT engine for Python. There's a vast difference in the
> amount
> of effort expended on Java as opposed to Python.

Another reason is that a JIT compiler may not help Python as much as Java,
because every Python object must have a type tag, and those tags must be
checked by every operation, while type-tag checks are only needed in a few
places in Java (eg casts), and never for primitive types. Because of type
tag checks, there would be no long, easily optimizable straightline
instruction sequences, which is one of the things what makes JITC worth it
for Java. The other thing is inlining, which would be rather hard to do
given Python's dynamic nature.

-- F
 



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar 23 11:31:32 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 17:31:32 +0100
Subject: IOstreams/pipes, newbie question, capturing console info form another script?
References: <a7i9kq$ujm$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns91DAB26BB55B5cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"G. Willoughby" <sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:a7i9kq$ujm$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk: 
...
>  os.system("python mapper.py -settings mappergui.ini -scale %s -out
> latest_render.jpg -zone %s" % (self.imageSize, self.currentZone))
>  [/snip]
>  now i was wondering because this 'mapper.py' script and an 
> included 'zone.py' writes alot of info to the console using 
> 'sys.stdout.write()'
> can i intercept this using my first Tkinter prgram so i can display
> this info in another freshly created window. basically i am writing 
> a gui for a cmdline script! if so has anyone got any examples of 
> code for me to look at that would be great!

have a look at os.popen. it returns a file-like object where you can 
read the output from the programm you started.

chris

(PS: the NOSPAM will not help much, but its an inconvenience for 
people that want to anwser you. some months ago we had a discussion 
aout that on this group.)
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From python at rcn.com  Sun Mar  3 23:34:42 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:34:42 -0500
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <1cef615e.0203021254.6bf3658@posting.google.com> <3C82C91C.A60B3242@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <a5uthe$nsq$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:3C82C91C.A60B3242 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz...
> "Hernan M. Foffani" wrote:
> >
> > But I fail to see how to apply this solution naturally on sets that have
> > several different main 'walking' directions like arrays or like the
sample
> > in the PEP. If the 'table' object has symmetry between two (or more)
axes,
> > then
> >         indici(table)
> > is ambiguous.
>
> An optional second argument indicating which dimension
> you want the indices for.
>
>   for i in indices(myarray, 0):
>     for j in indices(myarray, 1):
>       ...

No, please.

Even for symmetric tables, a default direction should be assigned
(say, row-major).  Then, the normal pythonic approach to nested
lists or tuples can be used.

For the most common case of rectangular tables (all rows have the
same length and all columns have the same length), forget the new
notation, save the repeated calls to len(), and use just one sample len()
from each dimension (then loop row-major or column-major as you
please):

rowcnt, colcnt = len(arr), len(arr[0])
for i in range(rowcnt):
   for j in range(colcnt):
       someOp( arr[i][j] )

For the less common case of irregular tables, the proposed dimension
argument does weird things.  Given a ragged right, what would looping
over columns do with:
  10  20  30
  40  50  60  70 80
  90  11  12  13

Let's use the optional argument for something different:
    indices( anIterable, [start, [stop]] )
Now, you can make friends with people who number their
arrays starting at one instead of zero ;)

Also, indices() and indexed() should return a generator instead
of a fully evaluated list.  Why eat-up memory unnecessarily.

One final note, if indexed() is available, why would indices()
ever be needed?  I can't think of any useful examples where the
index is useful but the index reference is never fetched.  This
contrasts with dictionaries where there are examples of
needing keys but not needing the values.


Raymond Hettinger






From jason at jorendorff.com  Wed Mar 13 00:04:19 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:04:19 -0600
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
In-Reply-To: <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEBJDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Martin Kaufmann wrote:
> This is the first raw version without histograms. s_vector is an array
> with all the scattering parameters, f_s_vector the respective
> scattering factors, and r_vector an array with all the distances
> between the atoms. The equation is the Debye equation, so no fancy
> integrals...
> 
>     for s in s_vector[1:]:
>         sum = 0
>         for r in r_vector[1:]:
>             x = 2 * pi * r * s
>             sum = sum + (2 * (sin(x))/x)
>         intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum / atoms)
>         i_vector.append(intensity)
>         n = n + 1

I'm going to attempt to explain how you can do this with Numeric
Python, but you'll have to understand I have no clue what I'm
doing scientifically.

So in particular I'm assuming that "atoms" is a scalar, say atoms=1000.
I also don't really know why you're using s_vector[1:] ... intentionally
omitting the zeroth data point for some reason...?

Anyway, here's an interactive session that implements the above
algorithm using Numeric, with *no loops*.  Or rather, the loops are all
hidden away where you don't have to worry about them.  (They should
run faster, too.)

First, I'll import all the nice Numeric functions.

  C:\dev> python
  Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  >>>
  >>> from Numeric import *

Next, I'll create a few arrays of random data to work with.  Perhaps all
these numbers are completely unrealistic, but that's your field... :)

  >>> from random import random

  >>> s_vector = array([random()-.5 for i in range(5)])
  >>> s_vector
  array([-0.27223098,  0.24265847,  0.27374879,  0.17003544,  0.44799364])
  >>> r_vector = array([random()-.5 for i in range(5)])
  >>> r_vector
  array([-0.25522363,  0.09085211,  0.32083166,  0.48250771, -0.26395574])
  >>> f_s_vector = arange(0.1, 0.6, 0.1)
  >>> f_s_vector
  array([ 0.1,  0.2,  0.3,  0.4,  0.5])
  >>> atoms = 1000

Now, I need to make a copy of r_vector, because I want it to be
a 2-D matrix -- a column, not a row.  Because r_vector is currently
a 1-D matrix, I'll need to add a new axis to it.  This is done
by using a special slice syntax:

  >>> r_column = r_vector[:, NewAxis]
  >>> r_column
  array([[-0.25522363],
         [ 0.09085211],
         [ 0.32083166],
         [ 0.48250771],
         [-0.26395574]])

Now.  Multiplying r_column and s_vector creates a full 2-D array,
a sort of multiplication table (if that makes sense).

  >>> x = 2 * pi * r_column * s_vector
  >>> x
  array([[ 0.436554, -0.389131, -0.438988, -0.272671, -0.718410],
         [-0.155400,  0.138519,  0.156266,  0.097063,  0.255732],
         [-0.548775,  0.489161,  0.551835,  0.342765,  0.903085],
         [-0.825318,  0.735664,  0.829920,  0.515493,  1.358175],
         [ 0.451490, -0.402444, -0.454007, -0.282000, -0.742989]])

I deleted some extra spaces and decimal places to try and make that
fit nicely into this message.  When you do it at home you'll get more
precision.

Next, I'll calculate the 2 * sin(x) / x part ...

  >>> y = 2 * sin(x) / x
  >>> y
  array([[ 1.937076, 1.949906, 1.936379, 1.975308, 1.832347],
         [ 1.991959, 1.993610, 1.991870, 1.996861, 1.978271],
         [ 1.901115, 1.921189, 1.900027, 1.961066, 1.739018],
         [ 1.780558, 1.824418, 1.778189, 1.912591, 1.439403],
         [ 1.932741, 1.946448, 1.931996, 1.973597, 1.821001]])

Now I want the sum of each column.  There's a special method
that does this...

  >>> sums = add.reduce(y)
  >>> sums
  array([ 9.543451, 9.635572, 9.538462, 9.819425, 8.810042])

Now calculate the intensities from that.

  >>> i_vector = atoms * f_s_vector**2 * (1 + sums/atoms)
  >>> i_vector
  array([ 10.095434, 40.385422, 90.858461, 161.571108, 252.202510])

Let's demonstrate that this is the same result as you'd get with
your algorithm, mostly as written:

  >>> def f(s_vector, f_s_vector, r_vector):
  ...     n = 0
  ...     i_vector = []
  ...     for s in s_vector:
  ...         sum = 0
  ...         for r in r_vector:
  ...             x = 2 * pi * r * s
  ...             sum = sum + (2 * (sin(x))/x)
  ...         intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum/atoms)
  ...         i_vector.append(intensity)
  ...         n = n + 1
  ...     return i_vector
  ...
  >>> f(s_vector, f_s_vector, r_vector)
  [10.095434515144179, 40.38542290296536, 90.858461626142727,
   161.57110800726178, 252.20251050463611]

Here's how that function would look using Numeric:

  >>> def f(S, FS, R, atoms):
  ...     Rcol = R[:, NewAxis]
  ...     x = 2 * pi * Rcol * S
  ...     y = 2 * sin(x) / x
  ...     sums = add.reduce(y)
  ...     I = atoms * FS**2 * (1 + sums/atoms)
  ...     return I
  ...
  >>> f(s_vector, f_s_vector, r_vector, atoms)
  array([  10.09543452,   40.3854229 ,   90.85846163,  161.57110801,
           252.2025105  ])
  >>> list(_)
  [10.095434515144179, 40.38542290296536, 90.858461626142727,
   161.57110800726178, 252.20251050463611]

Note that when Python displays an array, it only shows a few decimal
places; but full precision is stored (and you can see it if you
convert the result back to a Python list).

The histogram version is up to you.  :)

Numeric lets you mix arrays and scalars randomly and it happily
distributes multiplication and so forth.  So the resulting code
looks a bit more like the original formulas.  Some folks like that.
But if you don't, you can always code this in C and it'll be faster
still.  It won't take very long to learn C.  The real problem is
that C programs can be very difficult and time-consuming to debug.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From shredwheat at attbi.com  Sat Mar  2 13:31:23 2002
From: shredwheat at attbi.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:31:23 GMT
Subject: Why isn't pychecker mentioned prominently?
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net>
Message-ID: <3C811C18.1020208@attbi.com>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> I just found out about pychecker (http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/) and
> I am wondering why it isn't mentioned prominently all over the Python
> web site: the tutorial, the links on the left and side of the home page,
> topics guides, general reference etc.  I found out about it from reading
> one of Guido's recent presentations in which he mentions it as one of
> his favorite Python tools.  So why is pychecker such a secret?

i heartily agree. i now try to use pychecker on absolutely everything i 
do. i really wish it came as part of the standard distribution. it could 
easily be enabled on the commandline with some sort of -wall.

heck, python recently added the full "warning" framework. it seems like 
an ideal place to tie that all in. then users can control if the 
pychecker warnings were silenced, printed, or treated as exceptions.





From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar  6 19:08:44 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:08:44 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:35:06 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
> I diagree that the current method has both, or either.  I don't know 
> about you, but I find "for x in range(n-1,-1,-1)" to be a difficult to 
> read and difficult to understand way of obfuscating a simple loop over 
> the numbers 0 to n-1 in reverse order.  I think "for n > x >= 0" would 
> be much simpler.

    As stated in the PEP, perceived problem.  for foo ? bar ? baz is less
clear.  Difference is, range[foo,bar,baz] is what is there and, for anyone who
takes the time to learn the language instead of looking for problems, finds
that it is quite clear.  Start, end, step.  Furthermore the "for x in foo" is
generic enough that one can also prepare the list in any manner they choose.

    Overloading for adds unneeded complexity to address nothing more than a
perception problem for those reading the code wanting something their way
because they are too lazy to learn the ways the language already allows the
same thing to be done.

    IE, this is the same thing we get every time someone stumbles onto Python
and gets thier knickers in a twist because while (1): violates what their
college professor stated.  NO INFINITE LOOPS!  Nevermind that the if statement
right after the while does provide the same break.  No, we get endless wars
that we should have a do:while loop and a do:until loop and lord knows what
other loop constructs to fit very specific cases which are handled just fine
with a general construct.

    We have two looping constructs.  While and for.  Both give you ways to
address the problem.  We do not need an overloaded construct just to appease
your sense of asthetics.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From hzhu at mars.localdomain  Sun Mar 24 03:34:53 2002
From: hzhu at mars.localdomain (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 08:34:53 GMT
Subject: Need help with plotting
References: <3c9cd61e.8124286@news>
Message-ID: <slrna9r416.1h6.hzhu@mars.localdomain>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca <brobbins333 at shaw.ca> wrote:
>I'm new to Python and doing pretty well with it so far. 
>One thing that has me stumped is finding an "easy" way, 
>or any way, for that matter, to plot simple graphs. I haven't
>gotten into Tkinter yet and I'm not sure if there is another
>way to make plots. I have scipy and Numeric and I can see 
>that there are graphing modules there but I have not been 
>able to access them with something like: from scipy import *.
>This always fails with "not there" or "can't import."

Have you tried Gnuplot package?  (http://gnuplot-py.sourceforge.net/)
If you have gnuplot installed, you might want to try it.  It ultimately 
allows you plot anything that gnuplot can.  See also
http://matpy.sourceforge.net/MatPy/node30.html for a limited set of
examples.  

-- 
Huaiyu Zhu


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 26 02:32:29 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:32:29 -0500
Subject: Indentation problem
In-Reply-To: <7ieli7an7s.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEMKOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Isaac To]
> ...
> It still works, but it doesn't look nice.  What I want is a real
> reindentation which understand how Python reads indentation, ...

Read the docs for python-mode, especially for py-indent-region (not the same
as the rigid py-shift-region).  I wrote that more than 8 years ago; I doubt
Barry has broken it <wink>.




From d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se  Thu Mar  7 09:09:42 2002
From: d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Lindberg)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:09:42 +0100
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <mailman.1015492214.3907.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8774A6.52CF7F3A@spam.nada.kth.se>

Christian Tanzer wrote:

> Before this thread I would have agreed that destruction order is
> completely well defined. Looking at your example I'm not sure about
> one case. What if you write:
> 
> void a_function ()
> {
>         sentry1 s1, s2;
>         ...
> }
> 
> ? Will s1 be destructed before s2 by all compilers? Guess, I never
> cared about that because I tend to use multiple declarations myself.

The destruction order is always opposite of the construction order. In
this example s1 will be constructed first followed by s2. Destruction is
performed in the opposite order, so s2 will be destructed first followed
by s1.


Bj?rn


From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Sun Mar 10 14:29:05 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (Flavian Hardcastle)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 19:29:05 GMT
Subject: How can I lock a file in Windows?
References: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4> <uyqi8.24010$n4.4643918@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91CE4207A2BA0AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>

Thanx. But will chatters get an IOError if one of them tries to access a 
file while it's already locked? 

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in
news:uyqi8.24010$n4.4643918 at newsc.telia.net: 
> 
> did you look under "MS Windows Specific Services" in the
> library reference?
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-msvcrt.html
> => "file operations"
> 
> something like this should work:
> 
> def update(filename, new_content):
>     file = open(filename, "r+")
>     # look from current position (0) to end of file
>     msvcrt.locking(file.fileno(), msvcrt.LK_LOCK,
>     os.path.getsize(filename)) file.seek(0)
>     file.write(new_content)
>     file.close() # unlocks the file
> 
> </F>
> 
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->
> 
> 
> 



-- 
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether 
a man is wise by his questions."  Naguib Mahfouz

netvegetable at dingoblue.net.au


From narnett at mccmedia.com  Thu Mar 21 19:21:58 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:21:58 -0800
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
In-Reply-To: <a7dmuk$21j0$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJGEOJJLAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jim Dennis

...

>  I deliberately made it a class so you could instantiate
>  multiple word counts on different blocks of text to compare them
>  or whatever, and so you could import it into other programs and
>  use other methods (i.e. a web spider with urllib and a "text" extractor
>  with htmllib) to get your text.

Yep -- that's where I'm headed.

>  With a bit of work this could be cleaned up into a more general
>  class which could then be used as the parent of some more specialized
>  word counters (with different notions of acceptable character sets,
>  and different semantics on handling hypens and apostrophes).  In fact
>  it would make alot of sense to simply my Wordcount class and either
>  use it as a base class or put a Decorator class in front of it to
>  impose all the text parsing semantics prior to calling Wordcount.add()

When I get it into good, flexible shape, I'll make it publicly available.
Even though I don't think I want stemming, it'll be easy to optionally call
a stemming module.

>  I'd definitely factor the "known words" list out of this; possibly
>  as its own class which could be (optionally) used by Wordcount (so
>  you'd decide at instantiation if a "known words" dictionary would be
>  used and (if so) which "known word" sources to use.  It would then
>  be possible to use most of that to add support for "stop words"
>  ("words" that would NOT be counted).  In practical usage it might be
>  sensible to pickle or shelve the "known words" dictionary since it's
>  moderately expensive to create it at each run-time).

Definitely.  For what I'm doing, almost everything is a stop word.  I'm
looking for outliers, trying to distinguish between those that are just
freakish (random misspellings, etc.) and those that are actually emerging as
significant.  It's very interesting what can automatically emerge if you can
spot outliers that are converging inward over time, so to speak.

>  Those bits of refactoring would be pretty simple.  Using this in
>  a program that posted the results to your RDBMS should also be easy
>  enough.

Most certainly.

Thanks again.

Nick




From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar 15 14:34:28 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 19:34:28 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1016173476.645562@yasure> <2b57f654.0203151021.7f709e4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6tic4$uke$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef):
...
|> The complementary problem, of course, is that once you have invoked
|> readline(), it will read all the data available on the file descriptor,
|> or a lot of it anyway, and return only the first line.  The next time,
|> it will return the next line from its buffer, but you have no way to
|> know that it has another line waiting there.  select() can't see it.
|> There are solutions, I think the easiest thing in most cases is to
|> throw away the file object and just use the file descriptor (fileno())
|> (or sockets in this case.)
|
| This is even more frightening.  I don't want to lose any data!  How
| can I protect myself from this?  Why is using the file descriptor
| better?

Well, you're not exactly losing data, it's just buffered, though that
may be too fine a point depending on the circumstances.

The point with file descriptor is to use system I/O functions on the
device, and avoid buffered C I/O.  Basically because select is a
system I/O function.  If there were a C analogue to select, then you
could use it with C buffered file objects, but there is no such thing.

When select tells you "this thing is ready to read", it means the
device is ready for a system level read(), as in os.read(fd, bufsize).
So do that, and you'll get what select was telling you about.  It's
really simple.  The rules are the same, if you get an empty string
it's at "end of file" (the pipe closed.)

I have lost track of what kind of devices we're actually talking about -
I'm seeing the word "socket", but then what looks like popen2.Popen3.
Note that in Python, sockets are are normally socket objects, with recv()
methods etc., but these are unbuffered and recv() is like os.read().
Pipes (as created by Popen3) are either integer file descriptors or
file objects, there isn't any special system level pipe object.

As long as you're on UNIX, there's a certain purity of abstraction here
that you can exploit if you want it just to simplify matters - you can
get the file descriptor with s.fileno(), and you can use os.read() with
that - or you can use sock.recv() if you prefer.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From rs at onsitetech.com  Fri Mar 29 16:18:47 2002
From: rs at onsitetech.com (Robb Shecter)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 21:18:47 GMT
Subject: Python+wxWindows as Visual Basic replacement?
Message-ID: <a82lnn$gdu@dispatch.concentric.net>

Hey all,

Anyone have any experience using Pythonas an alternative to VB for Windows
database client apps?  It looks like all the pieces are in place -
wxWindows, py2exe, a Python ADO library...

Python per se isn't the issue - what I'm not sure about is what the
development and deployment experience is like, when using these parts, taken
together.

Thanks for any pointers, anecdotes, etc.

--
Robb Shecter
Senior Software Engineer
www.onsitetech.com




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 31 14:09:47 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:47 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017531239.13331.python-list@python.org> <a871lv$a3i$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA75EFB.A79F6D61@alcyone.com>

Ralph Corderoy wrote:

> What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
> elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of Boolean
> above.

But you already have precisely this:

	from operator import truth

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed Mar 20 13:50:37 2002
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:50:37 GMT
Subject: tkinter menuitem question
References: <mailman.1016634429.30440.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1S4m8.36908$N7.6523773@ruti.visi.com>

On 20 Mar 2002 14:24:33 +0000, Ken Guest <kwg at renre-europe.com> wrote:

Dear Ken,

>ok, I might be way off here but is there a way with a collection of
>Tkinter menuitems that all have their callbacks set to be the one
>function to determine which menuitem was clicked on?

Yes, you can do that by storing the state in an object that has
a __call__ method. I'll append a small example.

Regards,
Matt



from Tkinter import *

class genericCBO:
  def __init__(self,func,*positionArgs,**kwArgs):
    self.func=func
    self.positionArgs=positionArgs
    self.kwArgs=kwArgs
    return None

  def __call__(self):
    return apply(self.func,self.positionArgs,self.kwArgs)
    return None

class mainWin:
  def __init__(self,root):
    self.root=root
    self.createWidgets()
    return None

  def createWidgets(self):
    menubar=Menu(self.root)
    myMenu=Menu(menubar)
    myMenu.add_command(label="Option 1",command=genericCBO(self.menuCB,1))
    myMenu.add_command(label="Option 2",command=genericCBO(self.menuCB,2))
    menubar.add_cascade(label="Menu",menu=myMenu)
    self.root.config(menu=menubar)
    return None
    
  def menuCB(self,index):
    print index
    return None

def main():
  root=Tk()
  mainWin(root)
  root.mainloop()
  return None

if __name__=='__main__':
  main()


From wealthychef at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 11:51:44 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (Rich Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:51:44 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
In-Reply-To: <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>
 <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]>

At 11:09 PM -0600 3/14/02, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     >>    selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
>     >>    (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, selectables)
>     ...
>
>     >> It blocks forever waiting for theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
>     >> to return.  I expect it to block waiting for select.select(); that
>     >> would not be a problem.  The problem is that select is claiming
>     >> there's stuff to be read, then when I try to read it, it's not there!
>     >> How can that be?
>
>Based upon the attribute names you are using, I suspect you instantiated
>os.Popen3 to create theProcess.  These are file objects, not sockets.  I
>believe select only blocks on sockets.  See the comments about asynchronous
>file i/o near the bottom of asyncore.py.

I don't really need select to block.  I just want it to be accurate. 
If it returns a file object in the list of things which are 
available, why should then readline() block on it?
-- 

-Sincerely, Rich Cook 925-784-3077
*******************************************************************
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government 
of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
         Thomas Jefferson
*******************************************************************



From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 13:12:42 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:12:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Javascript to Python
References: <2030665d.0203010912.1bb9c0ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5ogaq$las$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

Sam Collett wrote:

> Does anyone know of any good sites on Javascript > Python examples?

Forgive me for being arrogant, but learning Python from the tutorial 
should tell you all you need.

> I have a function in javascript that returns the file extension:
> 
> function FileExtension(sFilePath)
> {
>     return Right(sFilePath,sFilePath.length-sFilePath.lastIndexOf("."))
> }
> 
> so FileExtension("/path/to/file.doc") would return .doc
> I would also want to return the filename (file) and the path
> (/path/to/). How would I go about that?

>>> import os
>>> os.path.splitext("/path/to/file.doc")[1]
'.doc'
>>> os.path.splitext(os.path.basename("/path/to/file.doc"))[0]
'file'
>>> os.path.dirname("/path/to/file.doc")
'/path/to'

> What equivalents to the functions Right and Left (right side of
> string, left side of string)

>>> "hello world"[:5]
'hello'
>>> "hello world"[-5:]
'world'

> Also is there an easier way to do number incrementing (just me being
> lazy):
> while r<5
>  print r
>  r=r+1
> 
> I have tried r++ to add 1 each time, and r-- to take away one, but
> this does not work, so is the only way r=r+1 or r=r-1 ?

Your code's missing a :  You can use r+=1 and r-=1 with recent enough 
versions of Python.  That particular example can be done

>>> for r in range(r, 5):
...     print r


                    Graham


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Fri Mar 15 15:53:35 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:53:35 -0000
Subject: ***Stopping a Python Thread***
References: <4378fa6f.0203151245.2a87b42d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna94nqk.r9h.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On 15 Mar 2002 12:45:48 -0800, Marc <mnations at airmail.net> wrote:
> command to try and kill it all. But the thread keeps running and does
> not stop. How do I kill this thread before it completes?

    You must stop each thread from inside the thread.  So have some flag
somewhere that it can check to see if it needs to shut down early.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From * at spam.ruud.org  Wed Mar 13 12:16:09 2002
From: * at spam.ruud.org (ruud de rooij)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 12:16:09 -0500
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org> <3C8F82C9.3090308@mxm.dk> <87y9gw2yig.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>
Message-ID: <87u1rk2xt2.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>

ruud de rooij <*@spam.ruud.org> writes:

> [ (item, sublist[i]) for (item, i) in thelist.items() ]

oops, i meant:

[ (item, sublist[i]) for (i, item) in thelist.items() ]

        - ruud
-- 
ruud de rooij | *@spam.ruud.org | http://ruud.org


From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Fri Mar  8 21:54:30 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:54:30 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <B8AD9351.4A8C%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a6ascr$19l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <B8AEE396.4C04%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 3/8/02 12:28 PM, in article a6ascr$19l8$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu, "Donn
Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> We can wave our hands and say performance is a
> tough problem, but it would be more convincing if it looked like it was
> getting the most minimal attention.

It's all a matter of resource allocation. Computers are cheap and common,
Python experts are rare and expensive (at least I hope so, they deserve it).

-- F



From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Mar  5 16:08:56 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 22:08:56 +0100
Subject: Updating Python...Newbie alert!
References: <n3ah8.112697$Hu6.28510292@typhoon.neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91C8E16569949cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Mr.Lee" <mrlee at davesupply.com> wrote in news:n3ah8.112697
$Hu6.28510292 at typhoon.neo.rr.com:
> Hi all,
>         Being quite new to Linux, I am having a bit of a problem 
> when it comes to updating my installed version of Python(1.5.2) to 
> the version that I have now(2.2).  
>         My problem is that I compiled Python in the directory that 
> I  downloaded and now I don't know where to put all of the files 
> that were generated!  It works, I ran the tests and it all came out 
> fine, but I just don't know where to put the files for maximum 
> efficiency. 

usualy one does "./configure;make;make install" and the "make 
install" places the files where they belong (in subdirectories of 
/usr/local/ usualy)

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From jdgorman at ieee.org  Thu Mar 14 00:45:35 2002
From: jdgorman at ieee.org (John Gorman)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:45:35 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <a6ontm$beg$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <3C90392D.8000108@ieee.org>

Doug,
    Another consideration is using the MLab module and Numeric.  MLab 
emulates several Matlab function calls including "cov" (which doesn't 
have a docstring, by the way, but here's Matlab's definition of cov():
   """COV Covariance matrix.
          COV(X), if X is a vector, returns the variance.  For matrices,
          where each row is an observation, and each column a variable,
          COV(X) is the covariance matrix....
   """

    Anyway, you could write your own python-based code, but the cov() 
function is likely to be more efficient for large arrays.  Here's an 
example using the scipy module (which contains Numeric and MLab):

Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
 >>> import scipy
 >>> # generate a vector of std nrml rv's
 >>> v = scipy.normal(0,1,100)
 >>> # cov returns the variance if its argument is a vector
 >>> # rather than a matrix
 >>> sig_v = scipy.sqrt(scipy.cov(v))
 >>> print sig_v
0.97295502908

    I haven't peeked under the hood with scipy.normal, but I'm assuming 
they're using something similar to the Box-Muller algorithm... Perhaps I 
ended up with a "bad seed" here (expecting sig_v = 1) ;^).  Hopefully 
you get the picture... ;^)

    Finally, if you want access to other statistical routines there are 
some python based modules floating around including Scientific Python 
and Gary Strangman has stats.py at: 
http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/Neural_Systems_Group/gary/python.html

Cheers,
John Gorman


Fernando P?rez wrote:

> dsavitsk wrote:
> 
> 
>>i found this
>>http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/ScientificPythonManual/
>>but it seems to be unix only and i am on win32. as far as standard
>>
> 
> you can probably get the stuff you want running under win. I'd be very 
> surprised if all of Konrad's code was tied to unix (though I can't tell for 
> sure, I use it under unix).
> 
> 
>>There seems to be some stuff in scipy, but i am having trouble geting
>>through the docs.  also, do i want to look at numpy?
>>
> 
> Scipy is early and still a bit rough to install, but fabulous. And yes, you 
> NEED numpy for anything numerical in python above the toy level. Both 
> konrad's libs and scipy are numpy based anyway.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> f
> 



From herrn at gmx.net  Sat Mar  9 07:53:36 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:53:36 +0100
Subject: how to set the background color of a window with curses
Message-ID: <20020309125336.GA2236@lurkabove.darkstar>

Hi,

I am trying to set a backround color for a window and did it with

stdscr.bkgd(' ', curses.COLOR_BLUE)

But that doesn't work. It seems to do nothing.
What am I doing wrong?

Bye
Marco
-- 
If you didn't have to work so hard, you'd have more time to be depressed.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From amoustafa at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 03:59:17 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:59:17 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com> <slrna9gdm5.577.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <3C984F44.1090001@pobox.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> (Followup-To set to comp.lang.python, as this doesn't have any
> relevance to Java any more)
> 
> Ahmed Moustafa wrote in comp.lang.python:
> 
>>How about web development? 
>>
> 
> A little research of yourself would tell you all you need to know, but
> I'm happy to give my informed opinion ;-)
> 
> Web development is one area where Python really shines. Almost all of
> the Python users I know personally use it for web development.
> 
> My biggest webapp was build an online shop system with Python and
> MySQL. From scratch, with its one templating system (of course),
> dynamic site navigation and all that stuff. Development time was only
> some 6 to 8 weeks.


May I ask you what the scal for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
Python?


> 
> All the rest at http://www.python.org/topics/web/
> 
> 
>>Also, how is Python doing in the embedded applications?
>>
> 
> It's possible, but people using it for this are certainly a minority
> among Python developers.
> 
> Gerhard

-- 
Ahmed Moustafa



From anthony.brown at gs.com  Thu Mar 21 17:10:20 2002
From: anthony.brown at gs.com (Anthony Enache Brown)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 14:10:20 -0800
Subject: Calling stored procedures from zxJDBC
Message-ID: <ac89fc1e.0203211410.1ddbe43b@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

I'm writing a script against a Sysbase Adaptive Server Enterprise
11.9.2.1, and I'm having a tough time getting it to call a stored
procedure.

The jython code looks like this:

db = zxJDBC.connect(d, u, p, v)
c = db.cursor(1)
c.execute( "execute DELETE_QUEUED_ACCOUNTS" )

This fails with:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
Error: SELECT INTO command not allowed within multi-statement
transaction.
 Severity 16, State 1, Procedure 'FUTDEV DELETE_QUEUED_ACCOUNTS', Line
54 [SQLCode: 226], [SQLState: 01000]

The same statement from within iSql works without a hitch.

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?

Thanks for your help,

Anthony


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 14:32:42 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:32:42 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3768B.32BB6AC9@ccvcorp.com> <slrnaa7e6a.eau.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3C981.2433ECD7@ccvcorp.com> <slrnaa96gr.gif.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MPG.170e61332f27f1e1989681@news.nwlink.com>

In article <slrnaa96gr.gif.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>, 
philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk says...
> Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >I disagree with your conception of high level language.  A 
> >high level language hides
> >unnecessary details, but I don't think that conversion between 
> >different data types
> >is an unnecessary detail.  
> 
> So would you prefer:
> 
>    float(2) + 3.14
> 
> to:
> 
>    2 + 3.14
> 
> ?

In the particular case of numbers, it does make practical sense 
to consider "Number" to be a single data type, with several 
specializations (integer, float, complex).  Thus, one can 
(somewhat) reasonably claim that converting int-->float is not 
truly between different data types.  (Judging from the 
discussions regarding new division, this seems to be the view 
that Guido takes.)  But I do consider numerics to be a special 
case, and not a good indication of a general rule.

However, None is not a number, nor is it a sequence of any sort, 
nor is it... well, anything.  None is a specific "not valid" 
value, and making it valid to perform arithmetic on a non-valid 
value is confusing at best.

> >High level means that a logical step can be done in one
> >or two lines of code,
> 
> Define "logical step".

Define "semantic".  What I mean by this is that a low-level 
language is one in which a single conceptual (semantic) step is 
broken down into a series of instructions.  A high-level language 
is one in which each conceptual step is done with a minimal 
number of instructions.  The specific definition of "a single 
conceptual step" is variable, and describes just *how* "high-
level" the language is.  (Compared to assembly, C is relatively 
high-level.)

> >There's a large class of cases where the interpreter, in 
> >trying to "do the right
> >thing", is as likely to guess wrongly as it is to guess right.
> 
> This is only true if what the interpreter will do is not cleanly 
> defined for the programmer.

No, it's also true if the behavior is non-intuitive, despite 
being well-defined.  Having a non-value be a valid component of 
an arithmetic expression is confusing.  (Should we also be able 
to perform arithmetic on floating-point NaNs?)  Confusing 
language constructs result in wrong programs, even when it's 
possible to examine closely and define exactly how it *should* 
behave.

> >  If you want an
> >interpreter that guesses anyhow, use Perl.
> 
> Yuck.
 
My point exactly.  What you're proposing would be a large step in 
the direction of Perl, and the fact that Python *doesn't* behave 
that way is exactly the reason that so many of us *prefer* Python 
over Perl.

-- 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Mar  8 12:19:59 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 19:19:59 +0200
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <kuelivht8g.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira at cis.upenn.edu>, Fernando Pereira
<pereira at cis.upenn.edu> writes:

| Another reason is that a JIT compiler may not help Python as much as Java,
| because [...]

i think the last time there was an in-depth thread about this, many
people speculated that a jit compiler could infact help python a lot.
(perhaps a jit compiler can help java even more.)
smalltalk and self implementation techniques were discussed.

  -- erno




From edream at tds.net  Mon Mar  4 04:26:18 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:26:18 GMT
Subject: The Text Widget
References: <5Hzg8.72869$vP.290047@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <3C82E8C4.24531DE7@tds.net> <a5vcb6$2vbb$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3C833DB8.6A4EB165@tds.net>

Eric Brunel wrote:

> > First, note that if you bind to a key-press (<Key>) event, when the
> > event handler is called the Text widget hasn't been changed yet(!)
> > Other frameworks provide a "text will change" event and a "text did
> > change" event, but AFAIK Tk does not.
> 
> Tk does: it's simply that the event "<Key>" is a short-cut for
> "<KeyPress>", called when the key is depressed, so before the insertion
> happened. To do a binding after the text has been inserted, the event is
> "<KeyRelease>".

Are you sure?  I know I tried binding to <KeyRelease> and IIRC the text
had not changed.  Or maybe my memory is faulty and there were some other
problems with <KeyRelease>.  I do know that I tried and failed to find a
way to get an event "just after" the the text had changed instead of
waiting for idle time.  I wanted to do this to make syntax coloring as
fast as possible. Note that my main testing was done on Windows, if that
makes any difference.

BTW, I had all kinds of problems distinguishing "plain" key-presses from
alt and control keys. I tried various ways of binding to <KeyPress> and
<KeyRelease> for the alt and control keys, without real success. I
finally gave up and just had my <Key> handlers check to see whether the
key-presses actually changed the text.

If you have an example of fancy bindings for Text widgets I'd love to
see it.  Thanks.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From rgwright at ux.cso.uiuc.edu  Fri Mar 29 17:10:47 2002
From: rgwright at ux.cso.uiuc.edu (robert garretson wright)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:10:47 GMT
Subject: Breaking String into Values
Message-ID: <HD5p8.33836$tg4.398811@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

I am working on reading in a data file format which is set up as a series
of lines that look like this:

3500035000010104A Foo 45

I want to break up into a variables as follows:
a = 35000, b = 35000, c = 10104, d = 'A', e = 'Foo', f = 45

My current code (auto-generated from a data dictionary) looks
something like this:

temp = line[0:5]
a = int(temp)
temp = line[5:10]
b = int(temp)
temp = line[10:15]
c = int(temp)
temp = line[15:16]
d = temp
temp = line[16:20]
temp = temp.rstrip()
e = temp
temp = line[20:23]
f = int(temp)

with a bit more error checking around the int() calls.

Is there a better way to do this? The files have around 1000-8000 lines each
so I would like it to be fast. Is there a package around that someone has
coded up as a C-extension to do this?

-- 
Robert Wright
rgwright at uiuc.edu


From lac at strakt.com  Sat Mar 23 03:04:34 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:04:34 +0100
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python] 
In-Reply-To: Message from "A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> 
   of "22 Mar 2002 20:55:07 GMT." <slrna9n6hb.2e1.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> 
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list@python.org>  <slrna9n6hb.2e1.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> 
Message-ID: <200203230804.g2N84Yrq006316@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Andrew Kuchling wrote:
> In article <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list at python.org>, 
> 	Laura Creighton wrote:
> > One days reading of your weeks spam will yield you many offers of
> > programs and advice on how to make your website rise in the Google
> > ranking.  This reflects the reality that once you have made it to the
> 
> Rule #1 when dealing with spam: Spammers lie.  I doubt any of those
> offers would actually result in any useful information or visible
> effect on your ranking.  Absent Scientology-scale creation of fake
> links, the only way is to update your site often and to get other
> people to link to you.

Er, I wasn't commenting on the technical feasibility of the solutiuons
offered by the Spammers -- though my current crop of spam which just
made mailman blow up appears to include a fake-link generation software --
just the fact that google leaders are even harder to replace than politicians.
Incumbancy counts.
> 
> > EBay has one sort of approach.  So does Advogato (see http://advogato.org )
> .
> > It is a real problem and one that interests me a lot.
> 
> At the Web services panel at Python10, Tim Berners-Lee mourned that
> third-party Web annotation tools such as crit.org or the commercial
> Third Voice have never really caught on.  Probably this is because, as
> he suggested, the UI would be really complicated, because we already
> have the technical pieces needed.

I tink the problem has more to do with political will and lack of order in
the www than the UI.

> 
> Consider your example of a buggy formula on a Web page.  Perhaps
> someone has noted this error on some annotation service, but on which
> one?  The W3C's?  crit.org?  The American Mathematical Society?  You
> probably can't just pick one for the whole Web, because the AMS
> annotations probably don't comment on X-Files Web pages much (or
> particularly well).  Instead you'd need a complex set of preferences
> -- use the AMS for mathematical pages, use the MEMS Exchange for
> MEMS-related pages, and so forth.  

This is Google-Next-Generation's problem. When they see a bad AMS or
MEMs rating, they quickly deprecate the webpage, informing the page's
owner why this happened.  The difficult part is getting the page 
reclassified when its owner fixes his typo and produces the correct
formula.  The AMS doesn't have time for everybody's typos.  But MEMS
might -- if you could charge for this service.  If getting a good MEMS
rating encouraged people to use the service, then you could afford to
hire people who were just concerned with maintaining MEMS' own standards.
If having a good MEMS rating was indispensible for credibility, and 
getting a good google ranking, then many useful things could be done.

> This quickly gets really messy.  Who annotates a finite-element
> analysis of a MEMS structure?  Both services, or just one?  

Anybody who cares to should be able to annotate a page.

> And how do
> you tell if a page is mathematical, anyway?  Or will I constantly
> telling my browser which service to use for each URL, in a
> never-ending task.  (You could have a annotation service that just
> classified pages, of course.) 

You would have to have this if people wished to browse the annotations.
But for a first pass all we need to do is to make _Google_ care.  If
unclassified, unranked web-pages got a poorer showing than those which
were classified as great by 'repuable authorities' but better than
those which were classified as garbage by the same authorities.  Then
you only have to rank the authorities.  And people could have their own
lists -- if you think that Google's default authority ranking is reflects
bourgeois American sensibilities, tell Google to use your list instead.

> 
> A widely adopted solution would bring us much closer to Ted Nelson's
> vision of a hyperlinked repository of all knowledge, but getting there
> seems very, very difficult.
> 
> --amk                                                             

Up until fairly recently, there were strong links between people who
wanted to share information and people who wanted to resist authority.
The web is anti-authoritarian in nature, which is a great thing when
you want to resist coercive political pressure, but a bad thing when
what you actually want is a guaranteed correct reference.  Countless
schemes have come and gone with the flaw in their makeup 'my opinion
is every bit as good as your opinion'.  It is too big now for that,
and Google is now the defacto authority for everything you want to
find on the web.

But putting Google out of business by producing a service that results
in better quality hits on your searches is still possible.  Finally,
out of the chaos, we have produced the social situation where order
beats freedom of expression hands-down.  And Google must be responsive
to it or risk going out of business.  Would you trade 'the freedom to
be different' for 'the choice to be excellent'?  Every new python
progrqammer who has given up on 'self-expression through my favourite
brace style' is making this choice.  The subversive message is 'order
is a lot of fun'.  I think that this message will finally produce
people who are brave enough to say that they want good authorities,
not the absence of all authorities.  But then I'm an Order-loving
Optimist.

Laura Creighton



From mmiller3 at iupui.edu  Wed Mar 13 12:48:16 2002
From: mmiller3 at iupui.edu (Michael A. Miller)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 12:48:16 -0500
Subject: python and analyze image format?
Message-ID: <87henkickf.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>

Anybody know of a python reader/write for analyze image data and
header files?  Would you provide a pointer if you do?

Mike

-- 
Michael A. Miller                               mmiller3 at iupui.edu
  Imaging Sciences, Department of Radiology, IU School of Medicine


From stevena at neosynapse.net  Fri Mar  8 06:48:43 2002
From: stevena at neosynapse.net (Steven D. Arnold)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 06:48:43 -0500
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <7x3czbag9q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org>
 <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
 <mailman.1015554558.21762.python-list@python.org>
 <7x3czbag9q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3437343234.20020308064843@neosynapse.net>

On Thursday, March 07, 2002, at 10:29:37 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:

PR> "Steven D. Arnold" <stevena at neosynapse.net> writes:
>> In the meantime, (istring is) practically like, say, an r or u
>> string, except with parentheses:
>> 
>> >>> from neo.istring import istring as i
>> >>> l = [1,2,3]
>> >>> i('first value is $l.0')
>> 'first value is 1'

PR> It occurs to me, you could get rid of the parentheses by making the
PR> i object an instance of a class that overrides (say) division:

PR>  >>> from neo.istring import istring as i
PR>  >>> l = [1,2,3]
PR>  >>> i/'first value is $l.0'
PR>  'first value is 1'

Wow....interesting!  I'm sure some would accuse me of abuse of
operator overloading, but a cool idea all the same...

-------------------------------------------------------------- 
Steven D. Arnold                                    Neosynapse
stevena at neosynapse.net                        Managing Partner
AIM: abraxan                       MSN: neosynapse at hotmail.com





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar  5 15:00:56 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:00:56 -0800
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com>


Bengt Richter wrote:

> >Making Python as gibberish as Perl is. And all that only to
> >have Windows path be written without double-\
> Not 'only'. I said 'also' ;-)  Perhaps my choice of '|' delimiter triggered
> your 'gibberish as Perl' detector?
>
> I could have written
>
>     q'###'c:\foo\bar\###
> or
>     q'[quoting delimiter]'c:\foo\bar\[quoting delimiter]
>
> just as well for this one.

I still don't like it.  It's very difficult for me to see at a glance, what's part of
the string and what is part of the delimiter, especially with the leading delimiter
being quoted and the trailing one not quoted.  It looks unbalanced, it looks ungainly,
and, to me, it just plain looks ugly.  I'd expect the above example to be equivalent to
"'c:\\foo\\bar\\", with a leading mismatched single-quote... Your earlier example of
cutting & pasting left me totally confused until  I spent a minute sorting through it.

At least to me, this seems totally unclear and totally nonintuitive.  It vastly
multiplies the possibilities for writing hard-to-read code, while providing a real
benefit in relatively few situations.  Considering how often triple-quotes appear in
text files, I can only imagine this being needed when trying to programmatically
generate Python code, which doesn't seem to be a terribly common task.  I'd prefer to
find an alternate solution for the specific case of that task, which doesn't require
changing the core language and creating so much potential for ugly code in every other
task that can be done with Python.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 08:54:11 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 07:54:11 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 11)
Message-ID: <353A4A03E1CFF2E4.621DD6F68D7A71AA.CF3107F9DF8C4B86@lp.airnews.net>

QOTW: "I am once again stunned by how good the Python standard library is.
I spent an afternoon surfing and assumed I'd have to write code, but
urllib does most of what I want by default."  -Andy Robinson


    Seek fame & fortune as a Python developer!
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=78c19cf834778b56
        http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/python-dev.html
    
    Disipyl is a Python interface to DISLIN, a plotting library.  Cool
    screenshots.
        http://pantheon.yale.edu/~pmm34/disipyl.html
    
    RPy is a Python interface to R, a programming language and environment
    for statistical computing and graphics.
        http://rpy.sourceforge.net/
        http://www.r-project.org/
    
    BBLImage is a collection of tools for processing volume images,
    especially medical images; it includes Pyvox, a Python extension for
    large multi-dimensional arrays.
        http://www.med.upenn.edu/bbl/bblimage
    
    lfm v0.8 is released.  lfm is a 'midnight commander' clone written
    in Python.
        http://www.terra.es/personal7/inigoserna/lfm
    
    Mitchell Charity uses PyInline to add an interesting postscript to an
    essay by Guido about optimizing Python code.
    
      http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1015705101.26116.python-list%40python.org
    
    Fran?ois Pinard shows how to convert images to monochrome with PIL
    in a single line of code.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ad62f29aff8871a6
    
    A question about Python weblogs and Web scripting yields a variety of
    Web-based weblog applications and Web scripting libraries.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=2e56b5ff1042343a
      Squishdot -   http://www.squishdot.org/Documentation
      Plone -   http://plone.org
      Albatross -   http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross
      Webware WebKit -   http://webware.sourceforge.net
      HTMLTMPL -   http://htmltmpl.sourceforge.net
      jonpy -   http://jonpy.sourceforge.net
    
    Mike Olson and Uche Ogbuji examine the Zolera SOAP Interface in this
    article, the second in a series.
        http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth6
    
    Python User Groups now have their own page on the Python web site:
        http://www.python.org/UserGroups.html
    
    
========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
	 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continued Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week, into July 2001.  Any volunteers to re-start this
    valuable series?
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
	http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com
     
    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Tenth International Python Conference 
        http://www.python10.org            

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 10:53:34 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:53:34 -0600
Subject: Swapping out sys.stdout globally
In-Reply-To: <20020301093135467-0500@braeburn.na.sas.com>
References: <20020301093135467-0500@braeburn.na.sas.com>
Message-ID: <15487.41982.968248.121857@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Kevin> sys.stdout = NewFile()
    Kevin> sys.stderr = NewFile()

    Kevin> However, I have some logging routines in a separate package that
    Kevin> already have their own references to sys.stdout and sys.stderr
    Kevin> which are unaffected by this.  

Sounds like they use something like

    from sys import stdout,stderr

The best solution there would be for those packages to import sys in the
usual fashion:

    import sys

and refer to sys.stdout & sys.stderr.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 12:24:02 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:24:02 +0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3C7F6765.94A82394@engcorp.com> <gS1JDJAdy2f8EwUF@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <a5ntnn$8t3dn$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
 <TsElcJAaB4f8EwQA@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <PtFyMdAeY5f8EwjI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <a5o719$8l90f$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <2vec8LAyk7f8EwEi@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <a5o719$8l90f$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes
>"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:PtFyMdAeY5f8Ew
>jI at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
>> after investigation it seems that module nt is using
>>         cmd.exe /c string
>>
>> to run programs and I can't find any way to quote things in the string.
>> A typically rubbish M$-ism.
>> --
>> Robin Becker
>
>On win2k it seems to be even documented (for the first time?):
wow, well there's hope yet. I of course looked in the win2k help which
is shorter than the /? output.

I used this function to quote for passing to system

def _quote(*args):
    fmt = max(map(lambda s: len(string.split(s)), args))>1 and '"%s"' or '%s'
    return fmt % string.join(map(lambda s: len(string.split(s))>1 and '"%s"' % s or s, args),' ')

then I can do

        system(_quote(r'c:\program files\bingo\bango.exe', r'c:\test dir\my rubbish.txt'))

and it seems to work. I guess spaces in filenames might be a
pain everywhere in win32 land. Does the same work in other win32's?
-- 
Robin Becker


From jlh at cox.net  Sat Mar  2 14:01:08 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:01:08 GMT
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <Uj9g8.29720$jC3.771094@news1.east.cox.net>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:a5pmvd$fic$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
> Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> wrote:
>
> > What you are asking everyone to agree with is:
> >         5 = [0,1,2,3,4]
>
> No he isn't:)  He explicitly says he doesn't think of sequences at all.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
  It's a duck.   How can one iterate over something that is not a
sequence/collection?
> ...
> > If you were to restate the above as:
> >        f(5)=[0,1,2,3,4]
> > Then, I believe, that you wouldn't have any problem convincing a large
> > majority that it is possible for f() to produce such an output.  That
being
>
> And this is precisly what he's proposing, f is called iter in his
> case.
But this is already in the language.  It is called range/xrange.  I haven't
seen any argument on why range/xrange is less preferrable to iterable
integers.  I've heard the philosophical debate but not seen how python would
be better for this addition.  If a good, tangible case were made I could be
influenced.
It would have to be a stronger case than:
for i in 5:        is better than              for i in range(5):
  print i                                                print i
I say that it isn't because the first case implies while the second case is
explict.
And it should show how my code would be improved in any of the following
terms,
a) readability
b)robustness
c)minimizing bugs

>He comes from the camp that sees everything as an object, so
> numbers are objects to.  Hence integers know to do things, like
> adding, subtracting, and ... counting!  Three knows how to count from
> zero upto but not including three.  If you accept this, then the
> discussion is not whether integers are sequences, but whether it's
> natural to stretch Python's `for' construct to mean `count' or `over
> its preceding numbers' in case of an integer.
But I don't accept this.  **Not everything is an object.**  An apple is an
object.  A number is an abstact idea already.  You can hold an apple.  You
can not hold a 7.  A number is a property of something else.  It is an
atomic property.  A number does not have ancestors nor children.  Just
because I have 7 apples doesn't mean that at one time I had 6.  Numbers
don't perform operations, you peform operations on operands.
To make a number be able to count and perform operations on itself seems to
me to be an extreme case of the tail wagging the dog.

>Like the `for'
> construct recently got stretched to mean `over all lines' and `over
> its keys' for text-files and dictionaries.  Admitted in those cases it
> still was a clear `iterate over', but the what was debatable.
The reason for this, is that it is natural to view a file/keys as a
collection.  It is not natural to consider a number as a collection of other
numbers.

>
> > said, I would find that the argument favors the use of range/xrange over
the
> > concept of iterable integers.
>
> I'm still concerned how it releates to `programming for everybody',
> as that goal is a sure measure to keep Python lean and simple.
I am not sure whether you are referring to iterable integers or range/xrange
by the above.
> --
> groetjes, carel
-Jeff Hinrichs




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 17:37:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 22:37:45 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <mailman.1015753398.24505.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6gn7p$3tm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:29:36 -0800, Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?= <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:

>Grant Edwards wrote:
>> If I did, couldn't I make all of
>> "my" apps look in the same place for "my" DLLs? I really hate
>> the idea of my app putting things in "system" directories.
>
>Sure you can. Just append to the PATH a directory where all your DLLs 
>go. This is of course best done with the installer. Here's a description 
>of how Windows searches for DLLs:
>
>http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/_core_The_Search_Path_Used_by_Windows_to_Locate_a_DLL.asp
>
I don't think they'll mind a quote snippet, do you? It'd be kind of stupid to paraphrase it.

---
With both implicit and explicit linking, Windows first searches the set of
pre-installed DLLs such as the performance library (KERNEL32.DLL) and the
security library (USER32.DLL). Windows then searches for the DLLs in the following sequence: 

The directory where the executable module for the current process is located. 
The current directory. 
The Windows system directory. The GetSystemDirectory function retrieves the path of this directory. 
The Windows directory. The GetWindowsDirectory function retrieves the path of this directory. 
The directories listed in the PATH environment variable. 
Note   The LIBPATH environment variable is not used.
---

I.e., unless you are trying to override some pre-installed thing, just putting your DLL's
in the same directory as your .exe ought to work.

Regards,
Bengt Richter

BTW, you can't see the URL with Netscape 4.5.
I wonder if their servers talk to IE in a special way ;-/



From grant53 at btinternet.com  Thu Mar 28 09:55:34 2002
From: grant53 at btinternet.com (Grant Foster)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:55:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Moving files
Message-ID: <a7vat6$9km$1@helle.btinternet.com>

Hi
    I am trying to move/delete files on my WinXp Pro system. I can copy
files, but when I try and rename or unlink files I get an error saying that
I don't have the correct permissions.
I created all files and run them as the same user.
Can anyone help?

TIA

Grant Foster
grant53 at btinternet.com




From susan at mars.provis.com  Wed Mar 27 16:45:16 2002
From: susan at mars.provis.com (Susan Williams)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:45:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: problems with circular references
Message-ID: <200203272145.g2RLjG324197@mars.provis.com>

>
>I am working on python code that consist of quite a few files (about 50;
>each file contains one class).  All errors returned by functions are numeric
>and are defined in the individual files.  There is a MessageCatalog.py class
>which will map these numbers into strings.  This MessageCatalog.py has to
>import all of the 50 other files to have access to their error numbers.  So
>far, so good - no problems yet.
>
>Here is the problem: Most of these 50 classes need to use the MessageCatalog
>themselves.  This means, of course, that classA imports MessageCatalog which
>imports classA.  This doesn't work very well.
>
>Does anyone have ideas on how to deal with this situation?
>
>Thanks,
>Jim

It sounds as though somehow or other you want to put the
actual error number data for each class into MessageCatalog
and give the 50 classes some interface for registering
their error numbers with MessageCatalog.  Then MessageCatalog
is oblivious to what other classes there are, except that
at run time they tell it about themselves.  You could add
another object for holding the error number data
and have one instance per class---if that provides a convenient 
structure for accessing the error number data...

susan




From mtaylor at lowebroadway.com  Mon Mar 25 05:37:24 2002
From: mtaylor at lowebroadway.com (Moray Taylor)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 02:37:24 -0800
Subject: Root access with python
Message-ID: <d906b2c1.0203250237.60f6ad12@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I want to know how to run a 'root' command with python, i.e. mounting
an NFS drive.

On the terminal, you would do a 'su', type your password, then enter
the command you wanted to run. How is this achieved within Python?

My purpose is to make a small GUI app with PyQT to make mounting NFS 
volumes easier, I can handle the GUI bit, but I don't understand how
to 'su'.

Thanks  for any help

Moray


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 04:13:38 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:13:38 +0000
Subject: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015044973.9011.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5qtr2$ist$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Huaiyu Zhu wrote:

> There appears to be a serious bug in Python 2.2 that severely limits its
> usefulness for numerical computation:
> 
[snipped]

Just to give some data points on this. I confirmed the problem on a Mandrake 
8.1 box with python 2.2 built by hand, gcc 2.96. But the python 2.2 windows 
binary from python.org does NOT exhibit it in my WindowsXP box. The reuslt 
there is 1e-200**2 -> 0.0, as it should.

I posted this report to the scipy-dev list to see if someone there (many 
linux users, all directly involved in numerical computing) can find out what 
the problem is.

Cheers,

f.


From stevena at neosynapse.net  Wed Mar  6 02:44:38 2002
From: stevena at neosynapse.net (Steven D. Arnold)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 02:44:38 -0500
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
Message-ID: <118530121703.20020306024438@neosynapse.net>

Neosynapse has released istring 1.0.1, a module for interpolating
strings in Python.  String interpolation means you can put variables
directly in strings, like this:

>>> from neo.istring import istring as i
>>> n = 100
>>> s = i("Value is $n")
>>> s
"Value is 100"

The new release fixes several small bugs.  In addition, we have
created an istring-announce list, which will receive information
regarding minor version updates and bug fixes.  To subscribe, go to:

    http://www.casti.com/mailman/listinfo/istring-announce.

The istring download page is at:

    http://www.neosynapse.net/interpolated_string.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------
Steven D. Arnold                                    Neosynapse
stevena at neosynapse.net                        Managing Partner
AIM: abraxan                       MSN: neosynapse at hotmail.com





From laurent.szyster at q-survey.be  Fri Mar 29 06:47:25 2002
From: laurent.szyster at q-survey.be (Laurent Szyster)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:47:25 +0100
Subject: chat server
References: <B8C97068.C30E%pete@dexterslab.de>
Message-ID: <3CA4544D.6646CB30@q-survey.be>

Henning Peters wrote:
> 
> i am planning to write a small chat server that uses select() in
> python. multiple clients should be able to connect and chat wih
> each other - like on a normal chatserver, just asynchronous ...

Don't reinvent the wheel. Use asyncore.py and asynchat.py, it's
part of the standard Python library.


Laurent


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 17 17:00:57 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 23:00:57 +0100
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <m3ofhm7t2e.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Sheila King <usenet at thinkspot.net> writes:

> What should I try next ????

If you think you found a bug, submit a bug report. If you know how to
fix it, submitting a patch would be even more appreciated.

Regards,
Martin


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Mar 14 12:51:00 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:51:00 +0100
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:48:12 EST."
             <u8v0dg4lej417@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <E16lZNU-0005TL-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

> > for index in range(len(mylist)):
> >     <whatever>
> >
> > and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
> > sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
> > myself doing this quite often.
>
> It happens to me too, mostly when I'm using a sliding window
> type algorithm, that is, I need to look at two adjacent members
> of the list. You can't do this easily by iterating through the list;
> unrolling the first entry and the last entry are a pain.

I use a function pairwise to do such things:

    for l, r in pairwise(mylist) :
        <whatever>

Probably not as fast as index manipulation, but IMHO much easier to
read/write/understand.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 29 14:50:13 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:50:13 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2 chr representation errors with embedded C
In-Reply-To: <000701c1d72b$b6a50c40$02ff1a42@peanut>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEODOIAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Mark Szigety; chopped python-dev from the address list]
> I have recently made the upgrade to Python 2.2 from 1.5.2.  In the
> Python application which I develop, we have several embedded C
> functions, one of which is a simple function to convert a hex string to
> octal--it simply chars each byte and returns the new buffer.

Post the function -- I can't guess what that means.

> However, I have noticed a 0.01% error rate in Python 2.2 which I
> did not see in Python 1.5.2 (it was 100% accurate).  That is, 1 out
> of 10,000 hex strings will be converted incorrectly in the C function,
> usually one byte is returned as \x00 instead of what is should be.

Post the function <wink>.

> I also have noticed that in Python 2.2, chr(0xff) returns \xff instead
> of \377 in Python 1.5.2.

The return value of chr(0xff) has never changed.  I expect you're mistaking
the change in what repr(a_string) produces for a change in what chr()
returns.  repr(a_string) has changed to use hex escapes instead of octal
escapes; chr() has not changed.  Note that

>>> '\377' == '\xff'
1
>>>

in all versions of Python.

> Could this be the source of the communication breakdown?

No.

> I should mention that writing a similar conversion function totally in
> Python is 100% accurate in Python 2.2 as well as Python 1.5.2, although
> it is an order of magnitude slower.

Post your C function; it's quite likely got a subtle bug, or other C code is
corrupting the memory it writes into.




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 05:03:21 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:03:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au> <1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost> <mailman.1016855556.16177.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91DC65AB692BBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> wrote in 
news:mailman.1016855556.16177.python-list at python.org:

> You are forced to embed programming logic which is used to dynamically
> alter the presentation of the interface directly inside the
> presentation elements.  I have a feeling that this makes the whole
> template unduly fragile and resistant to change.

I would have said you are forced to remove almost all programming logic 
from the template entirely and wrap it up in a separate script. All that is 
left in the template is the display logic.

> The idea that an HTML developer who does not understand ZPT will be
> able to ignore the ZPT attributes and just change the interface in
> isolation is a fantasy.  The ZPT attributes define an executable
> program - their correct placement is critical to the functioning of
> the template.  Note that the same is true of Albatross tags, but you
> can change the HTML in isolation to the Albatross tags.

I agree with you here up to a point. I would break down the roles into html 
developer who needs to know some ZPT, presentation developer who just needs 
to know what not to touch, and content developer who just needs to know 
which parts of the page require content.

You can even edit ZPT using Microsoft Frontpage, and mostly things don't 
break. If someone is simply adding content to a specified cell in a table, 
then they can edit happily within that cell. It would be nice though if the 
HTML editor could somehow be told to make the rest of the template 
readonly.

I think that until I actually used ZPT, it wasn't obvious just how good a 
job it does of separating the logic, the presentation, and the content. In 
particular the CMF skins help a lot.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 01:41:06 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:41:06 -0500
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
Message-ID: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I've never seen this feature in any programming language I've worked in but
it can't hurt to ask.  Can an aggregated class object get a reference to the
class object that aggregates it?  So if ClassAggregator contained an
instance of ClassAggregatee is there a Python syntax/construct that a
function in ClassAggregatee could use to get a reference to the instance of
ClassAggregator that contained it?

Thanks.





From emile at fenx.com  Wed Mar  6 08:38:24 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:38:24 -0800
Subject: Pep 276 - if 6 were 9
Message-ID: <a656fi$bg3f4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

If, in the beginning, Guido opted to call 'in' 'of', would there be a
question of iterating over an integer?

For example,

for each of range(6):
for each of mylist:
for each of 6:

I'm not advocating a change here, but just wondering how thinking in
terms of 'in' vs 'of' might influence the debate.  Or am I too far on
the supporting side to appreciate that this has no bearing on it
what-so-ever-thank-you-very-much?  ;-)

<aside>
This came to me as I showered -- does that make it a sodden thought?
;-)
</aside>

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar 15 12:09:47 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:09:47 -0800
Subject: ANN: Python Imaging Library 1.1.3 (march 15, 2002)
References: <mailman.1016200826.15886.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-5880AE.07483715032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <eppstein-95CCAE.09094715032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <eppstein-5880AE.07483715032002 at news.service.uci.edu>,
 David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

> >     Version 1.1.3 adds distutils build scripts, improved resampling,
> >     screen grabbing support (windows only), and more.
> 
> Any chance of adding box filters for higher quality downsampling?

Never mind, looking through the online docs I found the new ANTIALIAS 
filter.  Thanks, this should be very helpful!

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Mar 27 11:27:35 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:27:35 -0500
Subject: Tkinter: Why won't it work?
References: <Xns91DEA230DC824AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3CA1F2F7.8070306@wi.mit.edu>

A.Newby wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> Below is an example exercise from "An Introduction to Tkinter" by Fredrik 
> Lundh. It simply creates a box with a quit button in it. Problem is, 
> everytime I click Quit, the program freezes. 
> 
> Is this a rare but well known bug with Tkinter, Python 2.2, or Windows 98? 
> Or is more probable that it's cuz my system is screwed?
> 
> 


Does this problem exist when you hit the "QUIT" button or the "X" in the 
upper left corner of the window?

This code seems to work fine in Python 2.2 windows 2000 but in chapter 7 
of Introduction to Tkinter:

===================
Note that even [though] you don't register an handler for 
WM_DELETE_WINDOW on a toplevel window, the window itself will be 
destroyed as usual (in a controlled fashion, unlike X). However, as of 
Python 1.5.2, Tkinter will not destroy the corresponding widget instance 
hierarchy, so it is a good idea to always register a handler yourself:

top = Toplevel(...)

     # make sure widget instances are deleted
     top.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW", top.destroy)

Future versions of Tkinter will most likely do this by default.
====================


Here if you are ultra paranoid, you might want to alter the protocol of 
your root window as above.  This is also handy for popping up a message 
box asking something like "Are you sure" for conformation.

-Brian



From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Mon Mar 18 09:42:12 2002
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 06:42:12 -0800
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <1016327182.366474@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <m3n0x7po0e.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0203180642.69cc22b3@posting.google.com>

HP-UX 10.20 has user threads, HP-UX 11 has kernel threads (a POSIX threads 
implementation by HP) -  and AFAIK HP-UX 10.30 has it.
HP-UX 10.20 has located s subset of pthread call's in libcma - not enough
for Python2.2. But I can remember, that prior python versions (2.0, 1.5.2 ??)
could configured with threads. I can't test it anymore, because I have only
access to HP-UX 11.00 at the moment.
Another problem is, that the dynamic loader is not thread-safe in 10.20
(but it is in 10.30 and above) - see 'HP-UX Linker and Libraries Users's Guide'

But in principle HP-UX 10.20 supports threads (user threads or green threads)
and it is used i.e. with Java for HP-UX.

Carl


martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote in message news:<m3n0x7po0e.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:
> 
> > In either case, though, "make test" fails at test_threads with:
> > 
> >     test_thread
> >     *** Termination signal 14
> > 
> > That was where I got stuck, and I'm *still* stuck.
> 
> Does the test also fail if run on its own? I.e. what happens if you do
> 
> ./python Lib/test/regrtest.py test_thread
> 
> Also, since you said that threads work fine in 1.5.2 for you, what
> happens if you run this test in Python 1.5.2?
> 
> Regards,
> Martin


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Mar 27 01:41:50 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:41:50 GMT
Subject: python, cvs, win32 -- slightly ot
References: <etco8.1685$d7.551829@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3CA15642.7FA3E117@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <OQdo8.17439$EE4.53954@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hans Nowak:

> I use WinCVS:
>
>   http://www.wincvs.org/

   I like both the command line CVS tools installed by WinCVS and
TortoiseCVS which adds CVS commands to the Windows Explorer and highlights
file icons based on whether they are under CVS control (green) and changed
from their archived state (red). May be too intrusive for some tastes.
http://www.tortoisecvs.org/

   Neil




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 13:57:07 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 18:57:07 GMT
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <3CA1BB93.FC00D40D@pop.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <a7t4m3$12ud$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <3CA1BB93.FC00D40D at pop.ntlworld.com>, a.clarke11 wrote:

> Hi
> I defined a class, and made an instance. The class sis not have a
> def__init__() line. In the class, I defined a function  f(x) and an list
> object X.tiles. Why can I later call instancename.f, and
> instancename.tiles?

> I thought the class had to have a def__init__() line in it for this to
> work? I would be glad if somebody could spell this out for me, although
> it is working perfectly well in the finished program!
> The relevant code is:

 You have the right to a constructor (def __init__()).  If you do
 not have the skill or time to type in your own constructor one will
 be inherited into your class for you.  You have the right to remain
 silent and Python will just do "the right thing(TM)" for you.

 A class is a template for creating objects.  Objects, in Python, are 
 namespaces containing members (variables) and methods (functions)
 (*and* containing linkages to parent classes through inheritance).

 So instance.f() and instance.tiles are instantiated into your 
 objects because they were part of the template.  Note that Tiles,
 Sound, and playlist from your example (below) are all *class members*
 rather than instance members.  In other words they are shared by all
 instances.

 That's probably not what you want.  You probably want playlist (at
 least) to be specific to each player (though your code is far to
 confusing for me to know what you're trying to do).  Normally the
 __init__() (constructor) for a player in a game would initialize
 instance specific things like his or her "name" (or initials),
 "color" (or icon or "piece" (a la Monopoly) or other designator),
 and any initial score, tokens, money, "stats" or whatever.

> class Player:
>  import random
>  Tiles=[]
>  Sound="click"
>  Win="yippee"
>  playlist=[]
>  def chooseTiles(x):
>   import random
>   random.shuffle(Setup.r)
>   x.Tiles=[]
>   while len(x.Tiles)<7:
>    l=0
>    l=Setup.r.pop(random.uniform(1,len(Setup.r)))
>    x.Tiles.append(l)
>   x.Tiles.sort()
>  playstring=[]
 
> Porky=Player()
> Porky.chooseTiles()
 
> Thanks in anticipation
> Tony
 


From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 14:07:40 2002
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 11:07:40 -0800
Subject: hack to exec a 'C' for loop
Message-ID: <b0c5da3a.0203141107.3c7e24b2@posting.google.com>

I parse a lot 'C' code and should move to a real parser.
Today I had to add a single kind of 'for' loop to the tool.
Thought I'd share that for fun. If anyone knows of a cool tool :)

It's a tricky problem when many symbols are undefined.
And I only care about small parts of the code that for the most part
are fully defined.

The idea is to pull special data into a database to feed test tools
and docs.
So far it works and it's fast. Although the "for" loop thing is 10min
old and here to be chopped up.

--Darrell

### 'C' For loop test

import re

def ns(**kw):
    return kw

def indentBlock(block, tab=4):
    tab=' '*tab
    lines=block.split("\n")
    lines=map(lambda l: (tab+l.strip()).rstrip(),  lines)
    buf="\n".join(lines)
    return buf

def fixPrintf(s):
    s=re.sub('printf\s*\(\s*(".*?"),(.*?)\);', 'print
\g<1>%(\g<2>)',s)
    return s

def fixForLoop(s):
    f,b,t = re.split("{|}",s) # No nested braces allowed
    mo=re.search(
    r"""(?x)
            \(.*?\s+ (?P<var>[^=]+)=(?P<start>[^;]);
            \s*(?P=var)\s*(?P<compare>[<>=]+)\s*(?P<limit>[^;]+);
            \s*(?P<operation>.*?)\)
    """,  f)
    dict=mo.groupdict()
    if dict['compare']=="<" and 
        re.match("%(var)s\s*\+\+"%dict,dict['operation']):
        buf="".join(
['''for %(var)s in range(%(start)s, %(limit)s-1):'''%dict,
indentBlock(b)])
    return buf

def fixIt(s):
    s=fixPrintf(s)
    return fixForLoop(s)

vars= ns(MAX_SAMPLES=5)
s="""
for (int i=0; i < MAX_SAMPLES; i++)
{
    printf("%d, %d",MAX_SAMPLES-i, i);
}
"""
res=re.findall("(?s)(\n\s*for.*?;\s+})", s)
for r in res:
    if len(r[0]):
        exec fixIt(r[0]) in vars


From rasmussn at lanl.gov  Wed Mar 13 11:10:45 2002
From: rasmussn at lanl.gov (rasmussn at lanl.gov)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:10:45 -0700
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
In-Reply-To: <slrna8su7t.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E04538FF-369C-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov>

On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 02:54 PM, phil hunt wrote:
>
> Lying to get money = fraud
>
> I think MicroShit's directors and laywers should be banged up for a
> few years.

Let me throw out a different interpretation on Microsoft's actions.

As I was reading Microsoft's license, I thought of it in relation to the 
GPL.
Maybe Microsoft is just covering it's backside so that users of
their products won't use it in ways that will break the GPL.

After all, the GPL forbids linking GPL code with non GPL code, i.e.
MS libraries.  At least I think so from reading the GPL FAQ
(http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html).  For example, in answer to

I am writing free software that uses non-free libraries. What legal issues 
come up if I use the GPL?

The FAQ states:

    If the libraries that you link with falls within the following 
exception in the GPL:

      However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not
      include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or
      binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) 
of
      the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that
      component itself accompanies the executable.

    then you don't have to do anything special to use them. In other words,
  if the libraries you
    need come with major parts of a proprietary operating system, the GPL 
says people can link
    your program with them.

Since VC++ is not normally distributed with the operating system, I would 
assume
that MS VC++ libraries are not compatible with GPL code.

Now I should rush to point out that I don't know this to be the reason
for Microsoft's license, I'm just wondering.  Anyone more familiar with
the law in this area care to comment?

Craig





From borcis at geneva-link.ch  Mon Mar  4 04:00:27 2002
From: borcis at geneva-link.ch (Boris^2)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:00:27 +0100
Subject: regular expression for nested matching braces
References: <Tjig8.5306$H17.1119368328@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> <zGsg8.165877$dh.43603923@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3C8337AB.2080806@geneva-link.ch>


Darrell wrote:

> 
> Tim Peters Explains it here.
> http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ed6a75bc5eed7ee9&seekm=000401be9e6d%2427a98ec0%24029e2299
> 
> Searched on 
> "tim peters match"
> It's result 203$


Tim expounds there that :

 >> "Regular expressions can't count" -- nested brackets are beyond 
their abilities.

Nevertheless, searching google groups with "context-free expressions" 
turns up :

http://groups.google.ch/groups?q=context-free+expressions&hl=de&selm=1v35mpINNl78%40uwm.edu&rnum=1

that tells a slightly different (and interesting) story.


Boris




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  1 20:12:40 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:12:40 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015028704.21047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-A882F1.17124001032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015028704.21047.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> I was thinking in a more general sense: I would like to create an iterator
> with start, end, and step values and pass it into a function without first
> actualizing it as a list (like one would have to do using for+relational in
> conjunction with list comp.s).  And use the same construct in for-loops,
> list comp.s, etc.  (For those just tuning in: I realize that I can create a
> class for this -- actually, I already have.  I'm refering to proposals for
> new idioms in Python for iterating intervals of integers.)

Well, you can still always use xrange...
Or the recently proposed [yield x for ...] generator-comprehension syntax.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 15:19:32 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0500
Subject: '<char> in <string>' works, why doesnt '<string> in <string>'?
References: <4abd9ce7.0203081538.6ee9a2cc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015633276.4847.python-list@python.org> <4abd9ce7.0203090840.21a020eb@posting.google.com> <gf1m8u4ouotllon2v7uha8qnnk3vk5rbka@4ax.com> <4abd9ce7.0203101059.444f1ec1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BBFD4.A29A69F1@engcorp.com>

damien morton wrote:
> 
> Check this out:
> 
> ('fox' in 'the quick brown fox')
> ('the quick brown fox'.find('fox') != -1)
> 
> Which of these expressions is clearer, more intuitive and convenient?
> 
> I appreciate your thoughtfull comments, and I agree with you that
> inconsistency should be avoided, but I would assert that this should
> not be at the cost of intuitiveness, convenience and clarity.

Inconsistency is neither intuitive nor clear (after the first 
impression at least).  It may be convenient.  On balance, it's
never worth it.

(Put another way, this question is a matter of opinion, and I'm 
afraid yours is outweighed by the mass of existing Python code
and programmers.  Nothing personal, but don't waste your time.)

-Peter


From mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu  Thu Mar 14 12:45:51 2002
From: mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Michael George Lerner)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:45:51 GMT
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
References: <mailman.1016065525.9745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jl5k8.436$zT5.13755@news.itd.umich.edu>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
> [Michael George Lerner]

<snip>

>> I'd like to rewrite my regular expression to match any of these,
>> and I'd really rather not write it all out like this:
>>
>> (?P<foo>(foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo|)

> That will also match an empty string (remove the last vertical bar; ditto
> the 2nd left paren).

Oops.  That's what I get for retyping things quickly instead of cut 'n
pasting them.

>> Is there some easy way to do this that I've overlooked?

> You already found an easy way <wink>.  If you ask whether there's an easier
> way, the answer is no.

hrmph.  oh well.  at least i can save myself some time with this:

>>> def getPat(text, patLength, padChar = ' ', patName = None):
... 	text = text.strip()
... 	if patName is None:
... 		patName = text
... 	assert len(text) <= patLength
... 	numPadChars = patLength - len(text)
... 	pats = []
... 	for i in range(numPadChars + 1):
... 		pats.append(padChar * i + text + padChar * (numPadChars - i))
... 	return r'(?P<%s>%s)' % (patName, '|'.join(pats))
... 		
>>> getPat('foo',7)
'(?P<foo>foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo)'
>>> getPat('foo',7,'.')
'(?P<foo>foo....|.foo...|..foo..|...foo.|....foo)'
>>> getPat('foo',7,'.','flonk')
'(?P<flonk>foo....|.foo...|..foo..|...foo.|....foo)'
>>> getPat('foo',2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 5, in getPat
AssertionError
>>> r = re.compile(getPat('foo',7))
>>> len(r.match('  foo              ').groupdict()['foo'])
7
>>> 


-michael



From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Tue Mar 12 13:34:46 2002
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:34:46 -0700
Subject: doctest Hassles!
References: <10d46bdc.0203120928.7e9c708b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6lhq3$hkg$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Douglas Garstang:
> when I print the value of ls, I get:
>
>'
>    example.py
>    example.pyc
>    tester.py
>
>'
>
>Notice the blank line at the end. Where did that come from?

The print statement adds its own newline to the end.  Instead,
try it without the print.

    >>> import os
    >>> ls=os.popen("/bin/ls","r").read()
    >>> ls
    example.py
    example.pyc
    tester.py
    >>>

I've also found it useful to end the doctest with an empty '>>>'.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 12 19:10:41 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:10:41 -0800
Subject: is time.sleep a thread safe function?
In-Reply-To: <c775a687.0203121547.396ba8a8@posting.google.com>
References: <c775a687.0203121547.396ba8a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020312161041.17af899b.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 12 Mar 2002 15:47:10 -0800
Zihong Lu wrote:

> Can someone please tell me the answer?  
> 
> Recently, we have seen some weird behaviors in our python application
> in Solaris 2.6, 2.7,and 2.8 platform.  The application is a web based
> server, that uses threads heavily.  It runs fine in Linux and win32
> platforms, but in Solaris, it stopped accepting after ran for couple
> of hours.  One of our guesses is that the time.sleep() used through
> out our application is not thread safe.  Can any one please help us
> eliminate/confirm this factor?  Thanks.

AFAIK, time.sleep() is thread-safe.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 19:31:53 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:31:53 -0800
Subject: Parsing string into fixed-width pieces
References: <mailman.1016225186.22054.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C929279.E734152C@ccvcorp.com>


"Johnson, Brad" wrote:

> I'm new to Python and have been combing the documentation and the message
> archive here for information on splitting a string into fix-width pieces.  I
> assume their is an easy way to do this, I just don't seem to be able to find
> it in the reference material.  Any suggestions?

Something like this, perhaps?

>>> mystring = "123456789ABCDEF"
>>> mylist = [mystring[x:x+3] for x in range(0,len(mystring),3)]
>>> mylist
['123', '456', '789', 'ABC', 'DEF']
>>>

Note that it's not terribly common to want to split a string in fixed width
pieces.  It's far more common that there's some sort of delimiting character
that you want to break on, and for those cases, there's the split method:

>>> mystring = "123,456,789,ABC,DEF"
>>> mylist = mystring.split(',')
>>> mylist
['123', '456', '789', 'ABC', 'DEF']
>>>

Hope that helps...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From dpeter at designtheory.org  Fri Mar 15 17:55:00 2002
From: dpeter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 22:55:00 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net> <a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <mailman.1016138490.22557.python-list@python.org> <a6sl8j$4au$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <a6tnu3$bi9$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a6tu44$h2u$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> I wonder how the proportions would change if len(ls)
> were 1,000,000 instead of 1,000
> and/or if you used xrange in place of range.

Good question, as it turned out.
I timed only the following methods:

    def foo(ls, q):
        for i in range(len(ls)):
            if ls[i] == q:
                return i

    def xfoo(ls, q):
        for i in xrange(len(ls)):
            if ls[i] == q:
                return i

    def bar(ls, q):
        i = 0   
        for x in ls:
            if x == q:
                return i
            i += 1

If you have to go over (almost) the entire list then the proportions
don't really change.

    len(ls) = 1000
    search for "998"
    repeat 3000 times

    i in range(len(ls)):   2.02
    i in xrange(len(ls)):  2.25
    x in ls; i+=1 :        2.24


    ----------------------------------------------------------

    len(ls) = 10000
    search for "9998"
    repeat 3000 times

    i in range(len(ls)):   23.71
    i in xrange(len(ls)):  25.04
    x in ls; i+=1 :        25.44

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    len(ls) = 100000
    search for "99998"
    repeat 3000 times

    i in range(len(ls)):   212.83
    i in xrange(len(ls)):  220.57
    x in ls; i+=1 :        257.96

    ----------------------------------------------------------

But when the number of iterations over the list is small compared to the
length of the list then xrange and the counting methods obviously win.
In all cases below I have searched for '998'.

    len(ls) = 1000
    search for "998"
    repeat 3000 times

    i in range(len(ls)):   2.02
    i in xrange(len(ls)):  2.26
    x in ls; i+=1 :        2.28

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    len(ls) = 10000
    search for "998"
    repeat 3000 times

    i in range(len(ls)):   3.36
    i in xrange(len(ls)):  2.19
    x in ls; i+=1 :        2.27

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    len(ls) = 1000000
    search for "998"
    repeat 3000 times

    i in range(len(ls)):   22.40
    i in xrange(len(ls)):  2.22
    x in ls; i+=1 :        2.57


So it depends :-)

    Peter


From anders.eriksson at morateknikutveckling.se  Fri Mar 22 05:48:30 2002
From: anders.eriksson at morateknikutveckling.se (Anders M Eriksson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:48:30 +0100
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a7ci6a$2fqd$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <1o2m9ucoqb9qqs2fcign6sts3ckc3mqkma@4ax.com>

Hello Jim!

I tried to run the program in Python 2.1 but I get errors 

>if __name__ == '__main__':
>	wcount = Wordcount()
>	for i in sys.argv[1:]:
>		file = open(i,"r")
>		for line in file:
Here I get the error ^
    for line in file:
TypeError: loop over non-sequence

Is this something specific for Python 2.2, or just a typo?

// Anders




From vince at news.videotron.ca  Mon Mar 18 13:02:08 2002
From: vince at news.videotron.ca (Vincent Foley)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:02:08 GMT
Subject: XML help
Message-ID: <AYpl8.16002$i66.686070@wagner.videotron.net>

Hi,

  I have a XML document <http://freshmeat.net/projects-xml/vim/vim.xml>.
I want to put the latest_version value in a variable.  How would I do
that?


Thanks


-- 

Vincent Foley-Bourgon
Email: gnuvince at yahoo.ca
Homepage: http://darkhost.mine.nu:81


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sun Mar 10 07:42:36 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 12:42:36 GMT
Subject: TkInter/McMillan installer question.
References: <21298535.0203091603.337835a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91CD4E91314F0gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.215>

Svein Brekke wrote:

> Hi there. I've got a Tkinter application for portuguese vocabulary
> training, and I'm trying to distribute it through McMillans installer.
> The installer is excellent except for one problem I have not been able
> to solve. Could anyone please help me?
> 
> My configuration is: Win2KPro, python 2.2b1, McMillan installer 5
> alpha1
> 
> Concider the following program (call it test.py):
> 
> --8<-------------------------------8<-----------------------------
> import Tkinter # I have also tried: ,unicodedata,codecs

[snip]

For 5a1, an "import codecs" is needed to include all the codecs.
For 5b2, you get codecs unless you specify --ascii to Makespec.py.

With 5b2, I get the same answer from the exe as I get from running
it in Python: the round trip doesn't work. I assume that's because
Tk makes it's own (conflicting) assumption about encoding.

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/


From garret_mcgraw at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 18:14:48 2002
From: garret_mcgraw at yahoo.com (Garret McGraw)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:14:48 -0500
Subject: Digest Number 868
In-Reply-To: <1016408215.641.83517.m12@yahoogroups.com>; from python-list@yahoogroups.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 11:36:55PM -0000
References: <1016408215.641.83517.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020318181448.A970@wood.mcgraw.org>

Hi-

Does any know a good way to talk to a mysql database besides depending on the fact that the computer 
might happen to have that mysql module installed?  I guess I could just figure out how the protocol works
and access it by opening a socket to it and interpert what it gives me...... but I would like to know
if someone has already done that and see if i could download it.  It can be very simple...just as long
as its there and it will do simple things.  If there is no such thing then does anyone just think this 
is a project that could not done right?
Let me know what you think about it.

GEM



From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 18 12:06:35 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:06:35 GMT
Subject: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org> <7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u4rjdred0.fsf@python.net>

woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby) writes:

> And here's SourceForge bug #491612 (closed now), which was filed to
> report this very bug:
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=491612&group_id=25568&atid=384678
> 
> Unfortunately, contrary to Oleg's assertion in c.l.py and Barry's in
> his message added to the SF bug report, the CVS version of has *not*
> been fixed.

Are you sure?  It's certainly possible, but I think revision 1.6 of
Lib/email/Parser.py, which became revision 1.5.10.1 on the
release22-maint branch, was certainly aimed at fixing this bug.

> The bug is a showstopper for the email package (it stopped my show,
> at least), but the fix is quite simple.  Could we get it fixed
> before the final release of Python 2.2.1?

If it's not already, probably.  2.2.1c1 is imminent (later today, I
hope) and it's too late to change that.

> Should someone resubmit the bug to mimelib's SourceForge bug tracker,
> or will this message be enough?

First it would be good if you could supply some evidence that the bug
isn't, in fact, fixed.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion
  different sublanguages in one monolithic executable.  It combines
  the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski


From bh at intevation.de  Fri Mar  1 09:37:45 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 15:37:45 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1014938330.6533.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6q3czkqrpi.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

James_Althoff at i2.com writes:

> [Aahz Maruch]
> > My primary complaint about the PEP is that the following idiom is
> > awkward, ugly, and prone to misunderstanding:
> >
> >   if i in 5:
> 
> I will note this.
> 
> However given that current Python seems able to do type-checking on strings
> used with "in" as in, for example:
> 
> >>> 1 in 'spam'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
> >>>

That's because strings implement the in operator. However, Python is
smart enough to make in work for iterable objects. Quick experiment
(Python 2.2):

>>> from __future__ import generators
>>> class MyInt(int):
...      def __iter__(self):
...             for i in range(self):
...                      yield i
... 
>>> num = MyInt(3)
>>> for i in num: print i
... 
0
1
2
>>> 1 in num
1



   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From tl_news at nexgo.de  Fri Mar 15 05:17:13 2002
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:17:13 +0100
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
References: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <Xns91D1A9EBA13CFduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <a6shn9$9l6$1@crusher.de.colt.net>

Duncan Booth wrote:

Hi Duncan!

Thanks for your answer!

>> So the best solution is to transport an object like
>> return list(newlist)
>> 
>> But I guess this makes a temporary copy of my MaxSizedList just for the
>> XML-RPC-transport, or? So it's horrible inefficient?
>> 
> Yes, that will make a copy. But copying a list is a pretty efficient
> operation, so no, it isn't really horribly inefficient. Have you tried it
> and identified this as a bottleneck? How long are your lists anyway?

3600 Elements each.

No I didn't check if it's a bottleneck. But I immediately didn't feel good 
when writing "return list(newlist)"
(the list contains a list of strings itself - so it's much stuff to copy)

> One way to do this that avoids the copying is to aggregate a list object
> into your class instead of trying to subclass the list type. Then you can
> simply return the internal list object if you want.

I think I'll do that.
Funny: This is the userlist-approach - so despite having the new 2.2 
feature of subclassing it's better to use the old userlist.
 
> However, from your description I would be much more worried about the
> throwing away elements from the front of the list every time you append to
> the end of the list. I do hope you are batching these up into large chunks
> to be discarded, not throwing them away one or two at a time.

Of course :-)
This logic took most of the implementation time.
But I can just copy it in the userlist MaxSizedList - that's no problem.

Thanks!
Best regards

Tino


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 20:03:53 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:03:53 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015444452.19436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C880DF9.4236BF90@ccvcorp.com>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> 2) The "indices" approach is not general enough to handle the example used
> in PEP 276.
>
> >>># not the real thing, but an incredible simulation <wink>
> >>>
> >>>for rowindex in indices(mytable):
> >>>    print mytable.getValueAt(rowindex,0)
> >>>...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: len() of unsized object
> >>>

However, neither would "for rowindex in mytable" work.  In either case, you'd
need to use something similar to mytable.GetRowCount().

>>> for rowindex in mytable.GetRowCount():

or

>>> for rowindex in xrange(mytable.GetRowCount()):

(In this case, since we don't need to grab the collection of rows, we'd use
xrange() instead of indices(), but the effect is the same.  All that PEP 276
seems to be gaining us, to my mind, is a not needing to type a single function
name.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From matkin at iar.se  Thu Mar 21 09:55:00 2002
From: matkin at iar.se (Mats Kindahl)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 15:55:00 +0100
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a7ci6a$2fqd$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <umofhiged7.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) writes:

> In article <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list at python.org>, Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> > Anybody have any experience generating word frequencies from short documents
> > with Python and Perl?  Given a choice between the two, I'm wondering what
> > will be faster.  And a related question... any idea if there will be a
> > significant performance hit (or advantage?) from storing the data in MySQL
> > v. my own file-based data structures?
> 
> > I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so) documents at
> > a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.  I'm thinking that
> > the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of useless data.  Since
> > word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm guessing that I can spot
> > unusual words (my goal here) by loading up the top 80 percent or so of words
> > in the database (by occurrences) and focusing on the words that are in the
> > docs but not in the set retrieved from the database.
> 
> > Thanks for any thoughts on this and pointers to helpful examples or modules.
> 
> > Nick Arnett
> 
>  I don't know what you're really trying to do, but I decided to 
>  code up a quickie "word counter" for the hell of it.
> 
>  I started with one that would simply count "words" (white space 
>  separated sequences of letters, hyphens and apostrophes).  I then
>  decided to also denote which of them were "known" words and keep
>  a count of those as well.
> 
>  So, here's my very own version (in about 80 lines):
> 
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python2.2

[program removed]

>  I tested by running the following commands:
> 
>  	for i in /bin/* /usr/bin/*; do 
> 		bname=$(basename $i); man $bname | col -b > /tmp/$bname.man
> 		done
> 
> 	time ./wordcount.py /tmp/*.man | hea speed.
> 
> 	Here's the output from that:
> 
> 1602048 1361723 36978 0.849988889222 0.0271553025101
>  117960 the*
>   41673 to*
>   36275 is*
>   34975 a
>   32191 of*
>   27045 and*
>   22881 in*
>   20336 for*
>   17571 be*
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./wordcount.py", line 81, in ?
>     print "%7d %s" % (count, word)
> IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
> 
> real    1m48.212s
> user    1m47.950s
> sys     0m0.250s
> $ ls /tmp/*.man | ./wc.py 
>    1761    1761   31804 
> $ du /tmp/*.man 
> ....
> 15836   total
> $ find /tmp/*.man -printf "%s\n" \
> 	| awk '{n++; t+=$1}; END { print t/n ; }'
> 7104.33
> 
>  ... so it handled over 1700 medium size files (average 6K each,
>  about 14Mb total) in less than two minutes.  Of the words I 
>  counted it looks like about 84% of them were "known" words from
>  /usr/share/dict/words; and it looks like I found about 2% of the
>  known words.  (In other words, the Linux man pages only use about
>  2% of the English vocabulary).  I doubt the top ten words from my
>  list will surprise anyone: the, to, is, a, of, and, in ...
> 
>  I don't have the urge to write a version in Perl.  Not tonight
>  anyway.

Just to have something to compare with, you here have a Perl version
that does something I belive is along the same lines.

    #!/usr/bin/perl
    my %dict;
    my %known;
    my $known_words = 0;

    open(DICT,"/usr/share/lib/dict/words") or die "open: $!\n";
    {
        my @words = <DICT>;     # Read all the words into a list
        chop @words;            # Drop the trailing newlines
        $known_words = @words;  # Count known words
        # Enter the list of words into a hash
        @known{@words} =  (1) x $known_words;
    }
    close(DICT);

    undef $/;                   # Read each file in one go

    while (<>) {
        chop;                   # Drop trailing newline
        foreach (split(/\s+/)) {
            s/\'$|^\'|\'ll$|n\'t|\'s//;
            next if /^-|-$|\W|^\s*$/;
            ++$dict{lc $_};
            ++$total;
        }
    }

    print "Known: $known_words words, total: $total words\n";
    foreach (sort { $dict{$b} <=> $dict{$a} } (keys %dict)) {
        print "$dict{$_} $_*\n" if $dict{$_} > 1;
    }

I tried it on only approx. 600 manual pages, with the result:

    bash-2.01$ time perl wordcount.pl tmp/* | head
    Known: 25143 words, total: 464709 words
    44362 the*
    13174 is*
    12593 of*
    11907 a*
    11859 to*
    8735 and*
    7438 in*
    6255 for*
    6044 if*
    Broken Pipe

    real    0m42.669s
    user    0m22.190s
    sys     0m0.360s

 
>  Of course this script is free for any use you can think of.

Same here.

Good luck,

-- 
Mats Kindahl, IAR Systems, Sweden

Any opinions expressed are my own, not my company's.


From mikeb at mitre.org  Wed Mar 13 18:56:45 2002
From: mikeb at mitre.org (Mike Brenner)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0500
Subject: possible string.strip memory leakage
Message-ID: <3C8FE73D.3A03C085@mitre.org>

There might be a memory leak in string.strip. 

I wrote a python function to strip blanks off the left and right of a string. When I discovered string.strip, I replaced the call to my version with string.split, and I got a large memory leakage. When I put the call back to calling my python function, the memory leakage went away.




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 27 07:31:23 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:31:23 GMT
Subject: Looking for a python shell under linux like PythonWin
References: <a50631f6.0203262102.4bdc160d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3eru.1cc.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <a50631f6.0203262102.4bdc160d at posting.google.com>, newgene wrote:
> Hi, group,
>      The only python shell under linux I can find is IDLE, but it is
> not as good as PythonWin. A important feature "Attribute expansion"(a
> list of attributes for selection when pressing period after a module
> name) is not available. Is there a good python shell existing on linux
> now?

PyCrust does this (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust):

    PyCrust is an interactive Python shell written in Python using wxPython.

Gerhard


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Thu Mar 14 12:08:17 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:08:17 -0600
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D68955@SRM201002>

> 
> Anybody wrote a subclassed list yet that is optimized for 
> __contains__? Btw.
> this is different from a dictionary, as a list can contain 
> the same value twice.
> 
> Gerhard 
> -- 

The main hurdle is that the list is a general-purpose list,
and that means that you can't make any assumptions about
the data.

To make a fast list --for searches--, either:

1. Keep it sorted, and do a binary search when you need
   to find an element.

2. Keep it in a tree, and do a tree search when looking
   for an element.

Duplicated elements impact on the performance of this.

-gustavo



From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar  4 06:46:17 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:46:17 +0100
Subject: problem with locale
References: <a5vlnp$mmk$1@news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <just-60231F.12461704032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <a5vlnp$mmk$1 at news.tpi.pl>,
 "marcin andrzejewski" <m.andrzejewski at dmz.com.pl> wrote:

> everything works fine in IDLE, but when running as script, i 've got
> following error:
> 
> import locale
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
> a= locale.format ('%.2f',-100000.236,1)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "locale.py", line 1, in ?
>     import locale
>   File "locale.py", line 2, in ?
>     locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'setlocale'
> >Exit code: 1
> 
> what's wrong ?

I think your script is called locale.py: Python will find it before the 
"real" locale.py is found when importing.

Just


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  1 05:14:16 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:14:16 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <20020227163411.71b4b4d8.alex@netWindows.org> <Xns91C39C93F933Edenroearthlinknet@207.217.77.23>
Message-ID: <uvgcgwq1a.fsf@python.net>

Dennis Roark <denro at NSPAMearthlink.net> writes:

> The Python book appears substantially based on the templates of
> their previous books.

Certainly the first draft of chapter 2 that I reviewed[0] looked
suspiciously like the corresponding chapter from Java:HTP.  That went
back with a lot of red ink on it...

Cheers,
M.
[0] My, there were a lot of reviewers weren't there?

-- 
  same software, different verbosity settings (this one goes to
  eleven)                             -- the effbot on the martellibot


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 19 16:00:01 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 22:00:01 +0100
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <xRDl8.10641$Hz2.42334@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <m3bsdkw9wu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

>    It is the right approach but in terms of packaging its a mess and this
> will have a maintenance cost. Perhaps moving all the NT specific Unicode
> handling into a separate file would help although I haven't seen a clean way
> to do that either as it will then require a bunch of forwarding functions.
> If there was a good way to subclass posixmodule for this code...

Subclassing may not be the right solution - perhaps it is better to
admit that ntmodule.c really should be different from
posixmodule.c. What do you think?

Regards,
Martin



From writeson at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  7 21:41:45 2002
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 18:41:45 -0800
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <mailman.1015360930.26693.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0203071841.1867a977@posting.google.com>

To everyone,

Thank you for all the feedback, I really appreciate it. Here is some
more detail about what I'm looking for and how it should work, this
may or may not be helpful <g>. One of the things my company works on
is a large reference title that is sold on CD-ROM. The current
un-compressed text is 70 megs. The reason we compress that currently
is because of all the other media that goes on the CD. Our current
search engine is a piece of junk, but works in the C++ environment of
our current application, which is only for Windows. I am considering
an alternative with Python for a couple of reasons. Easier to write
than C++. The app is not speed critical and I think Python would be
more than fast enough anyway, I'm considing wxPython as the GUI, so
most of the window calls are implemented in C anyway. Writing the app
in Python would possibly allow us to market the CD for Windows, Mac,
Linux and Unix systems.

So the requirements of the search engine are that it compress the text
(or have index files so small that compression is un-necessary) and
the retrieval engine have an API accessible to Python, not implemented
as a command line tool. I want to incorporate the search engine into a
larger application that links the text together with media. I know, I
know, big demands, but that's why it's in the conceptual stage with me
right now.

Anyway, hope that adds more information to the thread.

Thanks again,
Doug

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.) wrote in message news:<mailman.1015360930.26693.python-list at python.org>...
> |Here is a related question -- Is there a search program for
> |structured text files, in particular something that searches XML
> |files.
> 
> You might like my xml_indexer program.  There is a writeup on the design
> at:
> 
>     http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/xml_matters_10.txt
> 
> As with indexer, from which xml_indexer is derived, the module has been
> aggregated into a package found at:
> 
>     http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_XML_Utils-0.9.tar.gz
> 
> Yours, David...


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar  4 20:08:46 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:08:46 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015286048.32329.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-B40D5C.17084404032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015286048.32329.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> Yes, I'll grant "is at least consistent".  But, in the case of the
> for-loop, at some point -- rather quickly I suspect -- you are going to
> have to leave the realm of relational operators and get right back to
> talking about iterators.  Because you're going to have to explain why
>     for x <= i <= y:
> works and why
>     for x <= i and i != y:
> is a syntax error.

For the same reason that
    for item in list
works but
    for dictionary.has_key(item)
doesn't:  The for-loop syntax only allows a very restricted set of 
expressions that it knows how to handle.  The current set consists only 
of expressions like "item in list".  The proposal is to extend it to 
also include three-way comparisons.

> And why
>     for i < rowcount:
> uses "i" as the loop variable instead of "rowcount" -- or does it?
>     for rowcount < i:
> How would Python decide?

It wouldn't -- that is not one of the expressions proposed to be allowed 
in a for loop.

> And if it can't, then does this mean that the idiom cannot support
> shortcuts for the common case of iterating the indices of a list?  So, do
> we have to write:
>     for 0 <= i < rowcount:
> specifying the "0 <=" part every time?

Yes.

One could extend the proposal to allow two-way comparisons that start at 
zero, but that wouldn't be in the spirit of the proposal, because your 
suggested "for i < rowcount" wouldn't loop over all those i for which "i 
< rowcount" is true (it would skip negative i).

And of course, there is no logical contradiction between the proposed 
new syntax and PEP 276, once one accepts that PEP 276 defines a meaning 
for the expression "i in 276" and not just the loop "for i in 276".


From frr at ThouShallNotSpam.EasyJob.NET  Fri Mar  8 05:09:13 2002
From: frr at ThouShallNotSpam.EasyJob.NET (Fernando Rodríguez)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:09:13 +0100
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <mailman.1015360930.26693.python-list@python.org> <88bc63c6.0203071841.1867a977@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mt2h8us6sl06q3v47jcrkq5lvdcqn7r7ta@4ax.com>

On 7 Mar 2002 18:41:45 -0800, writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell) wrote:


>is because of all the other media that goes on the CD. Our current
>search engine is a piece of junk, but works in the C++ environment of
>our current application, which is only for Windows. I am considering

What are you using?

Decent and unexpensive IR systems aren't very common. Maybe MySQL is enough
(they now have full text indexing).  You may consider:

a) http://www.lextek.com/onix/ (never used it)
b) http://200.6.42.16:2001/p_isis_dll.html (In portuguese, though the manuals
are in English). Used to be very unreliable but apparently it has improved.
c) Altavista's sdk.

Whatever you use, you will probably have to write the Python interface. 
If I was in your situation I  would write a Python interface to the mg system
that someone already recommended to you...



| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Fernando Rodr?guez   frr at EasyJob.NET 
| http://www.EasyJob.NET/
| Expert resume and cover letter creation system. 
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 11:48:50 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:48:50 +0000
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <mailman.1017014199.17554.python-list@python.org> <a7lvoi$mahs5$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9ul7i.c6l.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:44:44 -0800, Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>brueckd at tbye.com
>> >>> lo, hi = 1, 3
>> >>> [x/2 + 0.1*(x%2) for x in xrange(lo*2, (hi+1)*2)]
>>
>
>Which, after only a few moments of inverse re-factorization as per YP*
>practice, devolves into:
>
>>>> [round(map(float, [int(x/2) + 0.1*(int(x%2))])[0]*10)/10.
>        for x in map(int,xrange(lo*2, (hi+1)*2))]
>
>* something had to come before XP...  ;-)

WP, surely?

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 14:51:41 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:51:41 +0000
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com> <uhen0vatp.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <q0t6au4goc1q5ql38vq57qd3ec2ajhqpgl@4ax.com>

Syver Enstad <syver-en+usenet at online.no> wrote:

>Adding the registry settings so that one can drop data files on .py
>and .pyw files and the files dropped will be received as commandline
>arguments would also be nice. 
>
I raised this issue some while ago. I don't think that's just a
registry change.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Mon Mar 25 09:36:45 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 14:36:45 GMT
Subject: Installer 5b3 problem
References: <mailman.1017010364.1967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91DC61CF3DADgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>

[posted and mailed]

Zoltan Felleg wrote:

> If this list is not the right place for this stuff, please redirect me 
> to the proper one (and forgive me for bothering you here).

You'll usually get faster response on the Installer mailling list.
See the bottom of mcmillan-inc.com/install5_ann.html.

> I have a problem with the new mcmillan installer, namely the following 
> code freezes at the commands.getstatusoutput() line when its function 
> runs as a thread. The script itself works correctly, the "frozen" 
> executable does not. (It did work with installer 5b2). The system is Red 
> Hat Linux 7.2, with Python 2.2 compiled from source, and the database 
> (for the shelve) is gdbm. (I can use installer 5b2, but if the problem 
> is not in my script, it would be nice to have the next installer version 
> without this glitch). The script is as follows:

The problem is solved by modifying iu.py. The line (around 273) that
reads:

 mod = _self_doimport(nm, ctx, fqname)

should become:

 try:
     mod = _self_doimport(nm, ctx, fqname)
 except:
     if threaded:
         self._release()
     raise

I'll try to get that out (as 5b3.1) later today.

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/


From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Wed Mar 27 14:32:03 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:32:03 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <a7qqhr$m5$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jjb5-0A3399.14320327032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

> In any large application, it gets *tiresome* to see this, particularly
> if you add another layer of nested try/except.

Thinking of automatic locking concepts, has there been a PEP for 
synchronized objects like Java?

    class Snorf:
        def __init__(self):
            self.lock = lock.lock()

        def doSomething(self,x) synchronize(self.lock):
            code

It would be nice if the synchronize parameter could be an instance, 
class or module lock.


Joel


From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 15 17:33:29 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:33:29 -0500
Subject: Optimising list comparison
In-Reply-To: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEOIOEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Graham Ashton]
> A friend of mine is using Python in a research project where he needs to
> compare each element of two vectors, such that comparing [a, b, c] and
> [d, e, f] would involve comparing a with d, b with e and c with f.
>
> The only possible values in either list are 0, 1 and -1. When comparing
> two values, if either value is set to -1 then both values are deemed to
> be equal. So we've got:
>
>     0 ==  0
>     0 == -1
>     1 ==  1
>     1 == -1
>     1 !=  0

I assume

     -1 == -1

too.

> What he wants to know is simply whether all the values in the two lists
> are "equal", in which case the comparison returns 1, otherwise it
> returns 0.
>
> Now, having read Skip M's python optimisation page I would have thought
> that the following example could be beaten into the ground by an
> alternative involving map(). Obviously, a C extension would win the
> grand prize, but I'm interested in learning some map() tricks....
>
>     list1 = [1] * 20
>     list2 = [1] * 19 + [0]
>
>     def compare():
>         for i in range(len(list1)):
>             a = list1[i]
>             b = list2[i]
>             if (a != b) and (a != -1) and (b != -1):
>                 return 0
>         return 1

This will run *significantly* faster if you pass list1 and list2 to
compare() as arguments (access to function locals is much quicker than
access to globals).  You could also exploit Python's chained comparisons:

    if -1 != a != b != -1:
        return 0

However, the order in which you wrote your compares strongly favors your
specific test input, and the chained comparison would be significantly
slower given your specific test input for that reason alone.  If real life
throws a "random" mix of -1, 0 and 1 at you, different ways of spelling the
compares would be more effective.

For example, your rules are such that "!=" is the correct result if and only
if the sum of two elements is 1 (think about it:  0+0=0, 1+1=2, -1+i <= 0
for every i in {-1, 0, 1}, and 1+0=0+1=1; the last is the only case in which
the sum is 1).  So

    if list1[i] + list2[i] == 1:
        return 0

should work fine, and runs at the same speed regardless of relative
frequency of the various input-pair possibilities.

Then it's actually quite difficult to explain why

import operator
def attempt5(list1, list2, sum=operator.__add__):
    return 1 not in map(sum, list1, list2)

isn't quicker than an explicit loop doing the same thing.

> Neither of us have yet managed to come up with anything to beat it
> (we've been timing the alternatives over 100000 itterations).

Keep trying <wink>.  Also give

    for a, b in zip(list1, list2):

a shot.  It may surprise you <wink>.

> Any hints? What I can't work out how to do is how to break out of a call
> to map() if two values don't match.

You can't, short of raising an exception.  Whether you *want* to break out
early depends on the expected distribution of input pairs; e.g., if, like
the example you're timing, it's typical that the vectors start with a long
stretch of equal elements, breaking early would be much more useful if you
started comparing at the end.

> The only thing I've come up with so far is this:
>
>     func = lambda a, b: (a == b) or (a == -1) or (b == -1) or 1 / 0
>     try:
>         map(func, list1, list2)
>     except ZeroDivisionError:
>         pass
>
> and though I felt quite smug when I'd thought of it, it's more than a
> bit hacky. The raise and except also double the execution time on my
> machine.

Well, your specific test case always raises an exception.  Exceptions are
cheaper if they're not raised.  In the intended application, what percentage
of the time do you expect inequality to occur?  An exception gets more
attractive the less often inequality obtains.

Note that having to use a lambda is also a drag on speed.  map() speed
tricks are much more effective if a builtin function can be mapped.  However
(and this is a clue to an earlier mystery), an infix "+" applied to integers
is much quicker than operator.__add__ applied to integers.

> Here's my complete script:
> ...

Thanks!  That's very helpful.




From killspam at darwinwars.com  Sun Mar  3 08:38:52 2002
From: killspam at darwinwars.com (Andrew Brown)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:38:52 GMT
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk> <mailman.1015085345.6196.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91C68AFA9D232andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.104>

Per Gummedal <p.g at figu.no> wrote in news:mailman.1015085345.6196.python-
list at python.org:

> From the BlackAdder readme file:
> The license of the Beta version prevents run-time components of the
> Business Edition being distributed with your applications. This 
> restriction will be removed when the final version is released.
> 

Yes, but _when_ will the final version be released? Not that I have 
anything I might want to distribute, but I see fro my records that I paid 
for the beta nearly a year ago, and in that time there has been one update, 
last summer, and since then a resounding silence. It would be a shame if 
the project just sputtered and died. There are all sorts of unselfish 
reasons for hoping that some company (or kompany) figures out a way to make 
money from Linux sometime.


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  1 09:18:43 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:18:43 GMT
Subject: Apology to Bill Gates (was Re: ASV module, CVS modules)
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0203010407.220cba32@posting.google.com> <mailman.1014988382.18886.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ud6yowepw.fsf@python.net>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     John> Python, starting from a Unix background, where there is evidently
>     John> no such thing as an invalid character in a file name, ...
> 
> I believe "/" is not allowed in Unix filenames.  Not sure if this is
> escapable or not.

Don't think so.  NULLs are out, too.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Presumably pronging in the wrong place zogs it.
                                        -- Aldabra Stoddart, ucam.chat


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 26 22:54:32 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 22:54:32 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <20020325113323.A26319@glacier.arctrix.com> <3C9FC8AD.CD82FEA0@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017154481.3873.python-list@python.org> <3CA13DA5.DF1C3C7C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7rfpo$nso$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3CA13DA5.DF1C3C7C at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Laura Creighton wrote:
>>>Peter Hansen:
>>>
>>> If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.
>>>
>>> And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.
>>>
>>> -objectifying-tim-ly yr's,
>>> Peter
>> 
>> Tisk tisk.  Only half of the apologising you do for the other person.
>> The other half you do for yourself.
>
>Not sure I understand the sentiment, but perhaps it would have
>helped you if I included an explicit smiley?  That _was_ a joke.
>Happily, I think from Tim's reply he understood and took it that way.
>(The reference to Asimov might be obscure to some.  Sorry.)
>
>Thanks for the gentle advice though. :)

Um, Peter?  I think the following quote from my .sig collection would be
appropriate here (at least if I understand Laura correctly, and I think
I do):

"If sarcasm were posted to the Net, would anybody notice?"  --JDN
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar 23 12:56:11 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:56:11 -0500
Subject: struct - Library Reference 4.3
Message-ID: <3C9CC1BB.A6C8A9C8@sympatico.ca>

The struct doc provides information about the functions
pack, unpack and calcsize, but none about error.

When a pack error occurs, one is given a message such
as:

     error: required argument is not an integer

This gives no indication as to which of the argument's
components is the source of the grief.

Any information about the error function would be
appreciated.

Colin W.

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From siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at  Tue Mar  5 05:38:01 2002
From: siegfried.gonzi at kfunigraz.ac.at (Siegfried Gonzi)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:38:01 +0100
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at> <3C848DBE.CEF2A2F7@cs.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <3C84A009.D0E65B6@kfunigraz.ac.at>

Ronny Wichers Schreur wrote:
> 
> Siegfried Gonzi wrote (in comp.lang.python):
> 
> > After my nightmare using Clean [..] [Clean] is a useless big
> > pile of shit! [..] Clean's array-type-system is an impudent
> > scandal for its own
> 
> As one of the Clean developers, I'm sorry to read that you're
> frustrated with our language.

There is more to say.
> 
> I believe that you should use the right tools for the right
> job. This depends on the job, but also on your own preference.
> Judging from your comments you seem more at ease with a language
> that's not statically typed and that doesn't enforce referential
> transparency.

A)
No, No, No. This isn't about statically typed languages; at least not
what I mean. Type checking is a tool, what I have written many times,
which helps one produce readable code. The problem in Clean: the array
concept is not a tool which helps a programmer it impedes the
programmer. The problem is not that an array has a type the problem in
Clean actually is that it is impossible often to judge what is allowed
and what not. I started hating Clean when I had completed my program for
a 2 dimensional Kriging interpolation. The code worked, but when I
augmented it, it just behaved different, e.g. it was immediately not
possible to assign  a row in a calculation (but just before it *was*
possible). I then had to copy the results back to the array via
list/array-comprehension.

B)
Clean does often not work correctly. Look at my code which I have posted
in comp.lang.python. Sometimes the code failed and the count_lines
routine does not work. Last year I wrote some programs in Clean in order
to translate some files:

12:03:2001,12:23:23,3.344,45.556,..

to the fractional part of the year. I had to translate about 50
stations. Sometimes the Clean function worked for that station sometimes
not. Often I was forced to copy one content of a file to a file where
just before the Clean version worked. And I had used then this file to
translate "the other file". Btw.: I had downloaded the file-directory
module, but at this time it was corrupted and I had always to restart
the Clean program in every directory of the station (this was
cumbersome).

C) 
I wrote a program for a German colleague which reads in some numbers
from a file and does perform some calculations. The version worked on
the Mac but it only *sometimes* worked correctly on NT/XP/2000!
Sometimes the first result was a wrong number, but sometimes not. And in
turn I have just rewritten the version in C in order to deliver a
program to a colleague. It was impossible to correct the Clean version.
What should one do when it sometimes behave correct but sometimes not.

CC) I am not sure whether I fooled myself or not: but reading a number
from a console-command-line does not work. I had to use a readline and
then get rid of the whitespaces. This was cumbersome.

D)
Last year I wrote some programs in order to calculate some
summary-statistics: Mean, Median, Min, Max,..

It was impossible to augment the code. I wanted to augment it with the
skewness but the compiler complaint (I would have to re-start the
program to get the special compiler message, but I can send you the
program if you like). It was not possible to add the calculation for the
skewness. Maybe there were too many variables in a function (this was my
guess at this time). I have used the R-language then to calculate the
statistics.
 
D)
And the worst matter: There is no way to write numbers with a specific
precision to a file. Fabian T.'s library just does not always work as
expected.


Point D is my greatest crtisim on Clean and the array concept. I really
miss types but not as Clean demonstrates it.

> Maybe Python with NumPy is the right choice for your job and
[...]
> Happy hacking.

Thank your for your kind mail. I didn't contact any Clean developers,
because still I think all there are kind guys which are working hard,
but I am not sure anymore that they discern what people complain
about.Surely, there a peoples who are not contented with the
license-scheme (and open source); and others expect this; and others
this; and others that. 

But shouldn't the following trigger the sirens: Did you observe that the
user community is shrinking and shrinking and shrinking? 

I have to repeat myself: types are not my problem. If Clean hadn't
performed as it had I would have never contemplated to throw it away.

Regards,
S. Gonzi


From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 13 09:43:13 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:43:13 GMT
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6nnsg$chc$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4 at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
> Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability
> >http://news.com.com/2100-1001-857008.html 
> >impact zlib.pyd? 
> 
> Dunno, but I filed a SF bug to check compatibility with the new 1.1.4.

But because mail from the sf tracker seems to be hitting the bit
bucket, noone knows about this.

Time to look at roundup again?  The tracker on sf is starting to piss
me off (even more).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  We've had a lot of problems going from glibc 2.0 to glibc 2.1.
  People claim binary compatibility.  Except for functions they
  don't like.                       -- Peter Van Eynde, comp.lang.lisp


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Mar  3 14:02:55 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:02:55 -0600
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <3c82575f$1_3@news.newsgroups.com>
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org>
        <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
        <a5r4n8$m5f$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
        <3c82575f$1_3@news.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <15490.29535.647204.404077@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Brad> This also happens on Win2k with Python 2.2
    Brad> P:\PUBLIC\DEMOS\WSOCK>python
    Brad> Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Brad> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>>> 1e-200**2
    Brad> 0.0
    >>>> 1e-200
    Brad> 9.9999999999999998e-201
    >>>> 

I believe your executable is working properly.  The exponent range for IEEE
floats is -308 ... + 308.  1e-200 is thus distinct from zero, but when you
square it (1e-200**2), it's not.  The problem people are having is that
instead of silently underflowing to zero as you demonstrated, it's raising
an OverflowError.  This appears to be because glibc's pow() implementation
isn't silently returning 0.0, but also setting errno to ERANGE.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Tue Mar 19 17:35:19 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:35:19 +0100
Subject: arrays help
In-Reply-To: <000501c1cfb6$495eed80$77c75ed1@umesh>
References: <000501c1cfb6$495eed80$77c75ed1@umesh>
Message-ID: <20020319223518.GB3851@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 19/03/02 ? 18:23, Umesh Persad ?crivit:
> Hi,
>  I am just getting started with Python from a c/c++ and Java
> background. I am programming a game and I wanted to
> represent a gameboard by a double subscripted array.
> How do I do this in Python? Thanks,
 
An easy way is to use a dictionary, mapping coordinates to the "stone"
values, like this:

cord = (0, 0)
board[coord] = 'X'      # put a 'X' stone on the field (0, 0)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.7 ?C      Wind: 1.1 m/s



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Mar 20 17:22:58 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:22:58 -0800
Subject: error:"_imaging C module is not installed"
References: <3C989278.9189857C@helicon.net>
Message-ID: <3C990BC2.C5745585@alcyone.com>

Rodney Loisel wrote:

> Just upgraded from PY 1.5.2 to 2.2.1c1
> and TCL 8.3
> Also installed PIL (Python Imaging Library)

Your error means that PIL is not installed.  Try installing it again.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  8 05:28:49 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:28:49 GMT
Subject: marcos and .pyc
References: <mailman.1015542734.19085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uk7sn8i4g.fsf@python.net>

"dskhdskf dsfhs" <perryrain at hotmail.com> writes:

> Is there a feature in the basic python for doing inline marcos
> (similar to the ones found in C and C++)? 

No.

> Also is there a way to specify where .pyc files are to be deposited?

No.

Sorry,
M.

-- 
  same software, different verbosity settings (this one goes to
  eleven)                             -- the effbot on the martellibot


From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 12:56:56 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:56:56 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org> <a6f0fl$u8n$0@216.39.172.122> <NuMi8.333338$Aw2.26927026@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8n7jv.1l6.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <NuMi8.333338$Aw2.26927026 at bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, G. Sumner Hayes wrote:
> In article <a6f0fl$u8n$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>>
>> I'd say if you don't know C, C++, or Python, then start with Python.
>> Then C++, then C. In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns
>> of design you absorb solving problems with C.
> 
> Ugh, I can see learning Python first but definitely learn C before
> C++.

Definitely.  Also learn Scheme, Smalltalk, Modula-3, Prolog,
Forth, and Bliss-32 before learning C++.

Learning C++ at an impressionable stage will mess you up.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  It's the RINSE
                                  at               CYCLE!! They've ALL IGNORED
                               visi.com            the RINSE CYCLE!!


From python at chajadan.net  Fri Mar  1 22:15:36 2002
From: python at chajadan.net (chajadan)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:15:36 -0800
Subject: wxPython error on import -- number 2
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301191524.00a82ec0@63.118.78.184>

I get this error:

     from wxPython.wx import *
SystemError: C:\Code\22\Objects\listobject.c:88: bad argument to internal 
function

Now, there is no C:\Code\22\ anything on my comp, but maybe you guessed that.

This error generates with or without the .wx on wxPython

I'm on Windows, using python 2.2 and wxPython (Hybrid) for 2.2

hmm....

maybe it's this hybrid thing...

any help, as always, gives me less work to do ;)

--chajadan 




From a.h.batchelor at ncl.ac.uk  Mon Mar 11 07:22:48 2002
From: a.h.batchelor at ncl.ac.uk (Andybee)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 04:22:48 -0800
Subject: Newbie Import two coloums of floating point data into python HOWTO
Message-ID: <7eb201fc.0203110422.1e9c7dec@posting.google.com>

Dear All


Can some one tell me how to import two coloumns of data in a ascii
text file,into two arrays in python? I cant seem to work it out. The
data is genereated in matlab and I want to import it into python


Thanx in advance

Andy


From spokra at home.com  Sat Mar 16 15:34:17 2002
From: spokra at home.com (Steven Pokrandt)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 12:34:17 -0800
Subject: SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer question
Message-ID: <a263f04a.0203161234.6f1236bf@posting.google.com>

trying to use the threading tcp server class.  It all works right from
a quick look.  But when I run top I see many processes leading me to
think it is really forking.  I also can't get global varibles inside
the thread.

should I be able to have a varible in the main thread, and declare it
global in a thread?

I'm running linux (mandrake 8.1)  both the default python 2.1.1
and the 2.2 that I compiled do the same thing.

a ldd python shows that the pthreads.so is linked to python.

What em I missing?


From tshumway at uci.edu  Sat Mar 23 01:08:11 2002
From: tshumway at uci.edu (Terrel Shumway)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:08:11 -0800
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.1016859396.28725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7h671$apt$1@news.service.uci.edu>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:45:22 -0800, Walter Moreira wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:59:15PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>> 
>> To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
>> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.
> 
> Why not Zope, and Page Templates?
> 
> Walter

ht2html is a *much* lighter weight solution than Zope.  The focus is on
building static pages from templates, "way ahead of time", rather than
"just in time".

 different problem --> different solution 

 8-)


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Mar 18 17:28:02 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:28:02 GMT
Subject: Relieved but disappointed: The Pariah thread
References: <mailman.1016355447.13525.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9669FD.20706@skippinet.com.au>

Tim Churches wrote:
> 
> PS The newspaper article which prompted the post featured a picture of
> Mark, and not only is his name remarkably similar to that of a famous
> Australian National Park ranger, he even looks like a younger version of
> Ed Devereaux...and his email address is mhammond at skippinet.com.au
> ...hmmm.


hehehe.

When I was but a teenager, my shared name with this TV character 
bestowed me with the nickname "Skippy".  To this day, my friends still 
call me "Skip".  When I was looking for a business/domain name, I 
decided to try and meld this history into the name - hence skippinet!

Who would have thought an Aussie version of Lassie (with a Kangaroo 
instead of a dog) would still be impacting my life :)

Mark.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 20:01:06 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:01:06 -0500
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
References: <3c8bf3ef@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <3C8C01D2.F9CC7C73@engcorp.com>

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> 
> Hi, given the fact that excpetion handling can be very
> expensive in languages like C++ - is python similar in
> this aspect?
[...]
> Which version would be to prefer if the return types
> are distributed evenly?
> 
> try:
>     a, b = somefunc()
> except:
>     return None
> ...

Never do this. :-)  You have not specific which exception you
are catching, so you'll quietly hide all exceptions including
things like out of memory problems and so forth.

In this case, a quick check at the interactive prompt reveals
you should be looking for TypeError.

> selection = somefunc()
> if len( selection ) != 2:
>     return None
> else:
>     model, iter = selection
> ...

Definitely less readable, isn't it?  Given this sort of difference,
you should probably be much less concerned with raw performance
and more with readability and maintainability.  Only optimize
when you have actually hit a performance bottleneck.

A search at Google <hint> with the search pattern 
"python exception handling performance" reveals the answer to your
original question, no more than four hits down:

 http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/998253

Short answer: exceptions are not expensive.

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 19 17:27:13 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:27:13 GMT
Subject: How to count pixels of a color in an image?
References: <6b7cc392.0203191233.26760fc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5XOl8.33425$l93.6577162@newsb.telia.net>

"jjv5" wrote:

> I need to count the number of pixels that are purple or blue-green in
> a large image. I can do this with the Image module easily enough,
> but it is painfully slow.  I do something like this:
>
> green=0
> purple=0
> dat = im.getdata()
> for i in range(len(dat)):
>      r,g,b = dat[i][0],dat[i][1],dat[i][2]
>      green = green + (( b>r) and (g>r))
>      purple = purple + ((r>g) and (b>g))
>
> The slow part is the for loop over the image data. Even if the loop
> body is empty it still takes about 15 seconds on a fast computer. the
> getdata function takes about 3 seconds. Surely there is a better way.

this sounds like NumPy country, but some creative use
of the ImageChops stuff might help a bit:

from ImageChops import *

r, g, b = im.split()

pixels = im.size[0] * im.size[1]

green = pixels - darker(subtract(b, r), subtract(g, r)).histogram()[0]
purple = pixels - darker(subtract(r, g), subtract(b, g)).histogram()[0]

</F>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 18:26:09 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:26:09 +0000
Subject: ranking and searching [was: Re: "Zope-certified Python Engineers"]
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>
 <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org>
 <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
 <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list@python.org>
 <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203241637000.29289-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aCeH3jARCmn8EwTa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Certifiable has connotations with rather too many connections to the
sort of mind state entered whilst trying to grock Zope internals. 
-Straightjacketed-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From clpy at snakefarm.org  Fri Mar  8 09:11:45 2002
From: clpy at snakefarm.org (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:11:45 +0100
Subject: print >> details???
References: <a6aeg6$ddp$1@news2.iabg.de>
Message-ID: <3C88C6A1.22DE64B3@snakefarm.org>

spex66 wrote:

> class x:
>    def write(self, s):
>       print 'START'
>       print s
>       print 'END'
> 
> print >> x(), 'Hello'
> 
> and got following result:
> 
> START
> Hello
> END
> START
> 
> END
> 
> where does the second call of x.write() come from???

It comes from the newline character that is automatically appended by
the print statement. You can see it if you replace 'print s' by 'print
repr(s)'.

cg.
-- 
'In iteger arithetric divsion is no the oposite of multiplication.'
                                   -- scenes from comp.lang.python


From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 20:43:33 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:43:33 -0800
Subject: Help Required
In-Reply-To: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com>
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020315174333.6c80a199.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On 15 Mar 2002 17:24:33 -0800
Surajsub wrote:

> Hi,
> I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
> speed.I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
> The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
> supposed to be
> 
> uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)

The script builds a string or a list?

> However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
> 
> uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
> how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..

Don't know how you got it there, so I can't tell you how to remove it.

> string.lstrip does not work either.

You need to not put the spaces there in the first place.  Far simpler than
removing them after the fact.

> what am i doing wrong?

I can't see _anything_ you are doing, let alone what you are doing wrong ;)
 Try posting a least _a little_ code.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Mar 18 06:14:44 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 12:14:44 +0100
Subject: bug reporting
References: <mailman.1016412590.22637.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4hene3z6j.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> It could waste time of the developers to have to
> weed through false alarm bug reports.  One of the
> roles of this list is to vet some of these issues.

That is a reasonable approach. However, the question is how one should
react if the newsgroup does not give any feedback.

IMO, the next step should be to research the exact cause oneself.

> The issue was related to overloading operators in a class subbed from the
> 'complex' built-in - not exactly a high traffic lane, I suspect.
> 
> Is the recommendation to submit it as a maybe bug?

In general, yes. If you clearly understand the problem and its causes,
and can demonstrate the problem in a small, self-contained example,
submit a bug report. Bug reports should be structured as
- what did I do
- what happened
- what did I expect to happen instead.

Without seeing the details of subclassing complex: there was a sort-of
explicit decision not to call subclass methods in the implementations
of the builtin types, for efficiency. So for a dictionary, .get()
won't call __getitem__(), instead, it will operate directly on the
internal representation. If your problem is of the same type, you will
need to implement all derived methods.

If it is something else, report a bug. Processing of a bug may take
many months; in some cases even years. Bug reports primarily help the
Python developers, not the reporters. 

Of course, the community at-large is encouraged to review the bug
reports, in addition to reading this list - perhaps they can help
resolving some of them.
 
Regards,
Martin


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 12:08:57 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:08:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020306090857.shalehperry@attbi.com>

I am a little confused.

Your proposal starts with the claim that people are looking for a natural way
to loop over a range of integers.  Fair enough.  However the definition of
'natural' seems vague here.  As I read your proposal I kept looking for what
modified 'var'.  From watching the lists I have seen more people looking for C
style for(;;) loops than anything.  The syntax you propose is extremely
confusing to anyone who has used a for loop in C.  My other complaint is the
lack of generality caused by not using the C syntax.  You cover this at the
end.  Having one syntax for looping over 1..10, but another for looping over
2..10 evens only seems a bit odd.



From emersonwood at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 18:39:31 2002
From: emersonwood at yahoo.com (Emerson Wood)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 15:39:31 -0800
Subject: forgetting state
Message-ID: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com>

Hi, how would I make a python interpreter
shell forget everything that I've done
and run a script or accepts commands as
if it were first run?

The reason I ask is that I'm running
on Windows, and using the IDLE which
keeps a Python shell up all the time.
It would be natural to use that shell
to test my program, but I'm finding 
problems running it twice.

-Emerson


From cbbrowne at acm.org  Fri Mar 15 02:32:50 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 02:32:50 -0500
Subject: XML-RPC Question
References: <cf0ad9fb.0203140407.2356290b@posting.google.com> <L41k8.70$5Kn.175400448@news.telia.no> <cf0ad9fb.0203142305.78ae5e24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3g032476l.fsf@salesman.cbbrowne.com>

In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen) transmitted:
> "Thomas Weholt" <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote in message news:<L41k8.70$5Kn.175400448 at news.telia.no>...
> > I'm not sure about this, but I think SimpleXMLRPCServer only provide access
> > to the methods of the object you "publish", in your example the methods of
> > MyClass, nothing else.
> > 
> > system.listMethods() comes from .... .NET ??
> > 
> > I migth be wrong, and if so, please let me know.
> > 
> 
> No, not from .NET 
> 
> system.listMethods() is from the XML RPC introspection API
> - se section 11.20.1 in the python reference doc
> 
> It is nice to have when connecting to servers you have not written yourself.
> 
> It should be very easy to support it in the SimpleXMLRPCServer,
> but I guess it is not quite a standard, so they did not bother

... And it's not necessarily forcibly supportable.

For instance, it's possible to register a bunch of Perl packages to
dynamically accept requests.  When that happens, the set of methods
can get augmented (or perhaps even decremented) at runtime, and
there's not really a good way of saying what the "list" of methods
are.

You might not want to list them all, for security reasons.  (Not that
this is forcibly protective of terribly much...)
-- 
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@acm.org")
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/
Rules of the Evil Overlord #26. No matter how attractive certain
members of the rebellion are, there is probably someone just as
attractive who is not desperate to kill me. Therefore, I will think
twice before ordering a prisoner sent to my bedchamber.
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/>


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 20 00:41:07 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 05:41:07 GMT
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a78uvi$ff1$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna9g87j.17d.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Fernando P?rez wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> 
>> 
>> - Magnus (who also is a bit baffled as to why distutils doesn't
>> include?an?"uninstall"?command,?such?as?the?one?implemented?by
>> Thomas?Heller.)
> 
> Amen. It's incredibly annoying to have to tell users that a simple python 
> setup.py install does the trick as far as splattering files all over their 
> system, but that there's no reasonable way of undoing the process easily.

You know about "python setup.py bdist_rpm" for RPM-based Linuxen and
"python setup.py bdist_wininst" for Windows, right?

A bdist_deb or bdist_bsd_pkg or whatever simply isn't publicly
available, yet. But I'm pretty sure a patch implementing a new
packaging method would make it into Python.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 12 12:43:27 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 17:43:27 GMT
Subject: Redirecting output in Windows NT
References: <96e9dee5.0203120044.33a1e19c@posting.google.com> <3C8DC473.2070809@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <a6lenv$i2s$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:03:12 GMT, Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:

>Paul Lydon wrote:
>> Running Python 2.2 on Windows NT 4 Workstation.
>> Suppose I have a Python program named 'splat.py' consisting of:
>> "print 'splat'".
>> 
>> If I type 'splat' and hit 'Enter', NT knows that it must run the
>> Python interpretor and I see 'splat' on the screen. If I redirect the
>> output to a file:
>> 'splat > splat.txt', the resulting file is 0 bytes long and empty.
>>
The same thing would happen with Perl, if you have that installed
and type 'splat.pl > splat.txt' (or 'splat > splat.txt' if .PL has
priority over .PY in PATHEXT ;-)

Anyway, it's a windows wart you can usually work around by invoking
the interpreter (or other program) explicitly rather than through
file extension association, e.g.,

    python pyscript.py script_arg1 script_arg2 > captured_stdout

If you run your script a lot, you may find it convenient to wrap it in
a .cmd file. E.g., I collect a lot of little utilities in c:\util,
and just added pargs.py and its wrapper pypargs.cmd as follows,
simulating your situation (although apparently you've set .PY in
PATHEXT or you'd have had to type 'splat.py > splat.txt' as I did below.):
(dirf is a wrapped perl thing from long ago to munge dir output
into something I like better).
--
[ 9:34] C:\pywk>type \util\pargs.py
import sys
for i in xrange(len(sys.argv)):
    print 'argv[%d]: "%s"' % (i,sys.argv[i])
[ 9:34] C:\pywk>type \util\pypargs.cmd
@d:\python22\python c:\util\pargs.py %*
[ 9:35] C:\pywk>pargs.py 1 "two with spaces" 3
argv[0]: "C:\UTIL\pargs.py"
argv[1]: "1"
argv[2]: "two with spaces"
argv[3]: "3"

[ 9:35] C:\pywk>pargs.py 1 "two with spaces" 3 > junk.txt

[ 9:35] C:\pywk>dirf junk.txt
02-03-12  09:35          0 C:\pywk\junk.txt

[ 9:35] C:\pywk>pypargs 1 "two with spaces" 3
argv[0]: "c:\util\pargs.py"
argv[1]: "1"
argv[2]: "two with spaces"
argv[3]: "3"

[ 9:36] C:\pywk>pypargs 1 "two with spaces" 3 > junk.txt

[ 9:36] C:\pywk>dirf junk.txt
02-03-12  09:36         85 C:\pywk\junk.txt

[ 9:36] C:\pywk>type junk.txt
argv[0]: "c:\util\pargs.py"
argv[1]: "1"
argv[2]: "two with spaces"
argv[3]: "3"
--

>> If I run the same program directly by typing 'python splat.py', again
>> I see 'splat' on the screen and when the output is redirected 'python
>> splat.py > splat.txt' I get a file containing the string 'splat' (as
>> you would expect).
>> 
>> Any ideas why the output redirection doesn't work in the first place?
>
>It is a bug in the NT command prompt.  Works OK in Win2k.  I believe 
>there is a FAQ on it too.
>
IIRC you can get the analogous problem in other ways than just interactively
if you rely on file-association-driven program invocation.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Mar  5 04:43:54 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:43:54 +0300
Subject: =?koi8-r?Q?R=E9f=2E_:_Re:_R=3Ff=2E_:_Re:_strange_libtk8=2E3=2Eso:_open_f?=
 =?koi8-r?Q?ailed?=
In-Reply-To: <"020305011813Z.WT09319. 17*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>; from Francois-regis.Chalaoux@sanofi-synthelabo.com on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 06:01:04PM +0100
References: <"020305011813Z.WT09319. <"020305011813Z.WT09319. 17*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>
Message-ID: <20020305124354.H475@phd.pp.ru>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 06:01:04PM +0100, Francois-regis Chalaoux wrote:
> Why not add this latest path in LD_LIBRARY_PATH for the root deamon if it
> is the problem ? The administrator tell me it is not a good idea to do
> that !! 
> 
> What do you think ?

   I think:

1. Adding /usr/local/lib to LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a bit insecure, so your admin
really must be careful. But if (s)he is careful - no problem.

2. If (s)he still does not want to add it, you can do it yourself. Instead of
directly calling your python scripts from Apache, wrap then into shell scripts,
that set LD_LIBRARY_PATH, and then exec your python script.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 31 22:26:05 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:26:05 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017597529.7660.python-list@python.org> <a87ljh$ofu$1@panix1.panix.com> <3CA75F2F.198772EB@alcyone.com> <8NMp8.184567$2q2.15567243@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7D34D.F054FB95@alcyone.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> Yesterday, I gave four reasons for prefering 'truth' (or something
> else) to bool.   Please consider them.  Already, my prediction in
> point D is being borne out in some subsequent posts by some.
> Something about the word 'bool(ean)' sets off something in some
> people's brain that makes them want cripple a formalized Python truth
> type by prohibiting currently valid and useful behavior.  I find this
> as offensive both to the spirit of Python and my programming freedom
> as the suggestion that sequence*int should be deprecated and then
> prohibited because it violates some standard of 'proper' sequence
> behavior.  Rather than have to put up with and have to argue against
> such suggestions for the rest of my life, I would rather switch to a
> different term that does not carry with it the baggage that 'bool' so
> obviously does.

But "truth" is the wrong word; you mean truth _value_.  Calling the type
name "truth" gives the impression that the only value it can have is
True :-).

This seems a semantic argument; I don't see any compelling reasons for
calling it anything other than the common name.  It doesn't make sense
to follow other languages' lead _for its own sake_, but it sure does if
that is by far and away the most common name for that type of thing. 
Such values are called "Booleans" (an instantly recognizeable name in
computer science) far more often than they're called "truth functional
values," or "truth values," or (more to the point) "truths."

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From idot at vt.edu  Tue Mar 12 11:34:59 2002
From: idot at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 08:34:59 -0800
Subject: Is there a good reason why we cannot (as of 2.1.1) deepcopy complex objects?
Message-ID: <e395b886.0203120834.3cc1eb7@posting.google.com>

Strangely, I've found no mention of this anywhere: the docs, the
Python FAQ, or the Google archives.

Thanks,

-- 
CARL BANKS


From grante at visi.com  Sun Mar 10 02:06:32 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:06:32 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8B00E2.75783719@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8m1ge.2bl.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <3C8B00E2.75783719 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Not sure how you would make your app look elsewhere than in
> the executable's directory for DLLs, if you need to avoid the
> system directories.

I don't know that I "need" to, but it just seems to be good
common sense not to put user files into system directories. I
guess I'm not using "WindowsThink" yet.

> Might be possible.  Anyone?

>> AFAICT, there doesn't appear to be a practical way to have
>> multiple versions of DLLs installed, so if you've got two apps
>> that require different versions of DLLs, then one of the apps
>> is screwed.
> 
> A good reason to use the everything-in-one-folder method and
> not worry about it.

That sure sounds like the best bet.

>> Windows users... worried about drive space... ROTFL!
> 
> Who's worried?  Not me.  I thought you might be, and I didn't
> want to insult you by saying I thought that would be silly.

Personally, I _don't_ think it's silly to worry about disk
space.  I've still got Linux systems I use every day running
with a few hundred MB of disk space.  It wasn't more than 3-4
years ago I was using a Linux system with under 100MB of disk
space.  But, AFAICT, Windows users have completely abandonded
any hope of usable systems with less than several GB of disk
space.  I thought multi-GB disk drives were pretty pointless
until I started playing with MP3 files.  :)

> If you don't care, then you have little reason not to go with
> the options suggested.  Distributing to Windows users via
> a single executable is actually worse than via an installer
> (which would hide the multiple files if it's not statically
> linked) since (a) they get cute icons in the Start menu, 
> (b) they can uninstall without having to run Explorer and 
> manually delete files, (c) you can split out parts that
> should be modular (resources such as help files, etc.), and
> (d) they're used to it and don't know what to do with an
> executable (depending on the ignorance level of the user).

Good points.  I'm pretty much convinced that a folder full of
stuff and an installer are the way to go.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm not available
                                  at               for comment...
                               visi.com            


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Mon Mar 25 10:57:35 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:57:35 -0300
Subject: embedded python ...
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.03.25.09.13.23.359127.2117@capedomain.co.za>
References: <pan.2002.03.25.09.13.23.359127.2117@capedomain.co.za>
Message-ID: <20020325125735.A2194@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./blue.py", line 2, in ?
>     import math
> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/math.so:
> undefined symbol: PyExc_OverflowError
> ---------------------------------------------------------

If you're linking libpython.a into the main executable, use the
-rdynamic flag of gcc, or --export-dynamic flag of ld. If you're linking
the library into a shared object, make sure you're using RTLD_GLOBAL in
the dlopen() call.

This should probably be inserted somewhere in the embedding documentation.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar  3 19:28:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 00:28:42 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:56:45 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

>On 3 Mar 2002, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>>Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?
>
>Have it in a separate file.
>
That's fine in a lot of cases, but does require reliable presence
of both files. It's not so convenient if you are trying to write
e.g. a program generator and want to write out snippets containing
mixed triple quoted doc strings and data etc. Or if you are
writing copied example snips as part of dynamic HTML from CGI.

You can say, "Well adopt a consistent methodology, so you don't
try to quote triple quotes with quotes of the same kind."

Ok. But IMO it's easier to think up a safe delimiter for yourself
and use that to quote. Yes, Perlophobes can point to
    $s = <<XXX ;
"""But I'd say convenient precedents were invented for a reason."""
XXX

    s= Q'XXX'
"""This would make it as easy in Python."""
XXX

    s = '''"""This works a lot of the time, so use it when you prefer ;-)"""\n'''
    s = r'''"""Or avoid the \n like this ;-)"""
'''

and, with a simple copy&paste, and I have the above safely in a string:

    snippet = Q'===the stuff I want==='
Ok. But IMO it's easier to think up a safe delimiter for yourself
and use that to quote. Yes, Perlophobes can point to
    $s = <<XXX ;
"""But I'd say convenient precedents were invented for a reason."""
XXX

    s= Q'XXX'
"""This would make it as easy in Python."""
XXX

    s = '''"""This works a lot of the time, so use it when you prefer ;-)"""\n'''
    s = r'''"""Or avoid the \n like this ;-)"""
'''
===the stuff I want===


Sure, I can copy it and make a separate file, and write some code to read the file
into my snippet string, but would you actually prefer to do it that way? Ok, I could
write a class to systematize it. Maybe I will, when I want use file-stored snippets,
but I'd like both options ;-) And I guess I'd like to have Q' as well as q' ;-)

>>Obviously a program may contain quoted material using all the
>>defined string quoting methods (and this new method as well),
>>so the problem is defining delimiters that won't occur in the text.
>>
>>I propose using a variation of the MIME multipart delimiter idea:
>>
>>Note the lack of quotes around the final delimiter string, since it itself is
>>the final delimiter. This can also be used to solve the final unescaped
                                ^^^^
>>backslash problem for quoting windows paths:
>>
>>    q'|'c:\foo\bar\|
>
>Making Python as gibberish as Perl is. And all that only to
>have Windows path be written without double-\
Not 'only'. I said 'also' ;-)  Perhaps my choice of '|' delimiter triggered
your 'gibberish as Perl' detector?

I could have written

    q'###'c:\foo\bar\###
or
    q'[quoting delimiter]'c:\foo\bar\[quoting delimiter] 

just as well for this one.

>AFAIK, latest Windows also use / for delimiting dirs.
>So this is non-problem.
Sure, you have identified a context-dependent non-problem ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From frederic.giacometti at arakne.com  Mon Mar  4 21:53:21 2002
From: frederic.giacometti at arakne.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 02:53:21 GMT
Subject: microthreads and C calls Re: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org> <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3C8433CD.83B75D33@arakne.com>


Paul Rubin wrote:

> Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> writes:
> > Makes pretty much sense to me.
> > Stackless can provide light-weight threads to all platforms.
> > There is no need to use OS threads unless you need it
> > for I/O.
>
> Do you think it's feasible to modify Python to use non-blocking i/o
> everywhere, and then simulate blocking in Stackless?  I.e. when a
> microthread does an i/o operation, Python would start the operation
> asynchronously, and the Stackless microthread scheduler would block
> the microthread til the i/o operation actually completes (detected
> using select or SIGIO).

Yes; that's pretty much what I described earlier. Without change,
existing modules would keep working as they do presently, though.
Existing C modules would have to be slightly edited to take advantage of
the new capability, though.
I could add the feature to the Python engine myself, but I need funding.
Sponsors...?

Frederic Giacometti




From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Mar 14 13:45:55 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 19:45:55 +0100
Subject: Telnet-like interface with authentication in server
References: <8zYj8.63$5Kn.179044352@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <Xns91D1C92D07FD9cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Thomas Weholt" <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote in
news:8zYj8.63$5Kn.179044352 at news.telia.no: 
> ... Would it be possible to have a normal telnet-client connect to 
> my server somehow, get a prompt for username and password and be 
> able to run simple commands and see some output ? 
> This would be very handy for debugging etc.

is it that what i call "Remote Access Python Interpreter" on my page?

http://www.geocities.com/chrisliechti/ 

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From danny at ricin.com  Mon Mar 18 19:58:43 2002
From: danny at ricin.com (Danny Pansters)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:58:43 +0100
Subject: zipfiles module... read a file from archive 
Message-ID: <20020319005800.B60DD24D03@mail.ricin.net>

Hello,

I am not subscribed to this list because so far the documentation 
and/or the ease of Python has been so good I didn't need to ask 
anything, but I do have a problem now. So please send or CC to me!

I would like to know if reading from a zipfile is only possible by 
reading its entrire contents in memory (the read() method of the 
ZipFile class) or is there a way to do this, say, line by line.

I'm anticipating doing file uploads to users' websites through a web 
form (that way I don't need to give them FTP (yaiks) or SSH/shell 
(WinSCP) access and they dont need to learn anything but a simple web 
interface).

I want to avoid a load of client site javascript to easily do 
multiple file uploads (yes I will have a "more" button to add more 
upload widgets but if a user has a huge pile of files or wants to 
upload or overwrite a particular directory tree with some files here 
and there this method gets very time consuming) so I want to include 
the option to upload a (pk) zipped file and extract it at the server 
into the desired target. Anyone who can use winzip can then have her 
whole site uploaded in one take.

So I was hoping for a method that makes me read files in the zip 
archive line by line or bit by bit for all I care and have them 
written accordingly to their targets much like one would do with 
ordinary file upload. 

The zipfile will probably already be on the server in the user's 
directory. I guess that would be easiest to follow the routine I use 
for normal file upload and then if its a zip file have it be 
extracted after uploading it.

So, am I stuck with having every file in the zip archive in memory to 
be able to write them to disk (would yield some limits just for 
safety) or can I do it in chunks somehow?

Best regards, Python ROCKS!


-------------------------------
      Danny Pansters
      danny at ricin.com
      http://www.ricin.com
-------------------------------



From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Fri Mar 29 19:12:34 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:12:34 +0100
Subject: Ang: Re: Random...
Message-ID: <sca5112b.047@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

>>> "Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> 02/03/29
14:57 >>>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wojtek Walczak" <gminick at hacker.pl>

> ** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
> ** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.


Well, personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I top-post
mainly because of the mailsystem we have at my school (Novell). 

http://mordor.obitus.org/gfx/arguing.jpg

/Fredrik



From adam at gliwice.pl  Wed Mar 20 12:39:35 2002
From: adam at gliwice.pl (Adam Przybyla)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 17:39:35 GMT
Subject: Python2.2 Installation
References: <jjb5-244142.12302820032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <a7ahgn$pjn$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>

Joel Bender <jjb5 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> I downloaded and almost installed Python 2.2 from the Python-2.2.tgz 
> release on SF by doing the 'usual "gunzip; tar; configure; make" dance'.  
> I now have a Python-2.2 directory which seems to work by itself.

> Now I'm trying to add the pyserial-1.12 extensions by using distutils 
> and getting the following error:

>    distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: invalid Python 
> installation: unable to open /usr/local/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile 
> (No such file or directory)

> So how do I complete the installation so that Python2.2 is at least in 
> /usr/bin?  How do I replace the 1.5.2 installation that came 
> preinstalled (which is in /bin)?
	try:
/path/to/your/new/python2 setup.py build
/path/to/your/new/python2 setup.py install
Regards
								Adam Przybyla



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Mar  6 22:34:11 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:34:11 GMT
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015468151.15908.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7bod8uo9oec7uuh2onfkrjtsal4v3ksjmr@4ax.com>

>I would submit, no change to the language I have seen proposed in a PEP does
>*anything* significant *for* novices - and only adds to general static.

I would have to agree. The kitchen sink is being thrown at Python lately,
and it's hitting with a clank and a bang.

C//



From junkster at rochester.rr.com  Sun Mar 17 19:32:37 2002
From: junkster at rochester.rr.com (Benjamin Schollnick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:32:37 -0500
Subject: Eliminate Spam Now... >g< Python w/DNS/&POP3
In-Reply-To: <20020317144859.B18963@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA9FD4.5F64%junkster@rochester.rr.com>

on 3/17/02 5:48 PM, Neil Schemenauer at nas at python.ca wrote:

> Look at the check() function.  It does a RBL-like check using
>socket.gethostbyname().

I missed something fundamental, but quite simple.

Your not doing a getbyhostname ("www.yahoo.com")....  You are doing a
gethostbyname ("www.yahoo.com.outputs.orbz.org")  which forces your
DNS server to check the ORBZ DNS server....

I feel a little foolish for not realizing that...

Thanks for the hint, and that has completely (!!) simplified the entire
problem by several 1000%.

        - Benjamin




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 08:51:46 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:51:46 +0000
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:21:39 GMT, Gerson Kurz <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote:
>
>!0,1.!1,1.!2,1.!3,1.,.@?0.!4,?0.!0,?1.~4,?0.!1,?4.~2,?3.!5,?2.A5,10.-5
>
>will print the first ten fibonacci numbers.

I wonder what it does in Perl?


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Mon Mar 25 22:23:58 2002
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 11:23:58 +0800
Subject: Indentation problem
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7isn6o9fld.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Gilles" == Gilles Diribarne <gdiribarne at udcast.com> writes:

    Gilles> Hi, I like Python language and use it every day. But...  I read
    Gilles> some articles from October, 1998 where there was a fight with
    Gilles> space and tabs and indent problems.  Today, we can found code
    Gilles> with spaces and tabs in the code.

    Gilles> I've some problem with identing code. I'm allright with the
    Gilles> example.  But, I think it's important to have an "end" building
    Gilles> block like "!:"

    Gilles> What do you think about that?

Hm... sounds very reasonable.  But I think it would be useless in the
current state of Python: most code is already written like what you prefer
not to have.  When you have to merge code, you'll always find that some of
them are in the old style and some in the new style.

I'd rather suggest to have a Python-specific indentation command in Emacs
that will "reindent a region in a way that fits the current indentation
style and fit in the current context, but retain the original meaning".
This really shouldn't be that difficult.  Anyone will try his elisp skills?

Regards,
Isaac.


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 14:18:32 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:18:32 GMT
Subject: Question: recursion and scope
References: <a7nrl8$snv$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <cKKn8.413100$pN4.27801625@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

<adina_levin at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a7nrl8$snv$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> Hello, Pythonistas.
>
> I am attempting to teach myself some basic computer programming
concepts
> using Python.
>
> I'm currently extending the recursive binary tree program in
Programming
> Python to traverse the tree and count its depth. The program
successfully
> traverses the tree and counts the number of nodes.
>
> So far, though I haven't figured out how to calculate the "maximum
depth" of
> the tree without declaring "maxdepth" as a global variable.
>
> If maxdepth is declared as a local variable within the recursive
method, it
> gets re-set for each subtree.
>
> What am I missing?

Perhaps you want something like the following (untested, adjust for
your tree implementation):

def maxdepth(tree):
    if leaf(tree): return 1
    elif onlyleftchild(tree): return maxdepth(leftchild) + 1
    elif onlyritechild(tree): return maxdepth(ritechild) + 1
    else return max(maxdepth(leftchild), maxdepth(ritechild)) + 1

If you want to simultaneously count nodes, then you must return a
tuple of (count,depth) and add a bit more calculation machinery.

Terry J. Reedy




From emile at fenx.com  Mon Mar 25 18:33:33 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:33:33 -0800
Subject: Looking for bids
References: <7085ec43.0203251529.527ce980@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7oc23$mp9tf$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

dc
> We are looking for bids to create an online alumni directory similar
> to classmates.com using zope/MySQL. We need quotes and timeframes. We
> will accept bids up to 3/29/02. Thank you.

*3*/29/02???  Are you trying to keep the original bedder honest?

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 16:02:49 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:02:49 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF27AED320.C3FA7E81-ON88256B72.0071ACFC@i2.com>

[Jeff Hinrichs]
> What you are asking everyone to agree with is:
>         5 = [0,1,2,3,4]

[Carel Fellinger]
> No he isn't:)  He explicitly says he doesn't think of
> sequences at all.

Exactly!

Rest assured that PEP 276 does *NOT* in any way call for 5 to be an
alternate spelling for the list [0,1,2,3,4].  It calls for class int to
define an __iter__ method that returns an iterator object whereby that
iterator object would produce (for the case of integer 5) the numbers
0,1,2,3,4 in turn.

Just to reinforce the point of the minimalist approach of PEP 276:

--  PEP 276 calls for *ZERO* (None, nill, nada) new syntax for Python.

--  PEP 276 basically amounts to adding to the int class a method similar
to the following:

    def __iter__(self):
        i = 0
        while i < self:
            yield i
            i += 1
        raise StopIteration

That's it.


[Jeff Hinrichs]
> If you were to restate the above as:
>        f(5)=[0,1,2,3,4]
> Then, I believe, that you wouldn't have any problem convincing a large
> majority that it is possible for f() to produce such an output.  That
being

[Carel Fellinger]
> And this is precisly what he's proposing, f is called iter in his
> case.  He comes from the camp that sees everything as an object, so
> numbers are objects to.  Hence integers know to do things, like
> adding, subtracting, and ... counting!  Three knows how to count from
> zero upto but not including three.  If you accept this, then the
> discussion is not whether integers are sequences, but whether it's
> natural to stretch Python's `for' construct to mean `count' or `over
> its preceding numbers' in case of an integer.  Like the `for'
> construct recently got stretched to mean `over all lines' and `over
> its keys' for text-files and dictionaries.  Admitted in those cases it
> still was a clear `iterate over', but the what was debatable.

Right.  The builtin function iter would work on integers.  For example,
iter(5) would return an iterator object that would iterate over 0,1,2,3,4.

Jim





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Mar  9 17:50:34 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:50:34 +0300
Subject: range Failure?
In-Reply-To: <3C8A8564.E2F005AA@sympatico.ca>; from cjw@sympatico.ca on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 04:57:56PM -0500
References: <3C8A8564.E2F005AA@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20020310015034.A32508@phd.pp.ru>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 04:57:56PM -0500, Colin J. Williams wrote:
> It would seem that the first execution below should deliver the same
> result as the second.

   No, it is not :)

> >>> range(5, 2)
> []
> >>> range(0, 5, 2)
> [0, 2, 4]
> 
> The help has:
>      range([start,] stop[, step])

range(5, 2): start = 5, stop = 2, step = 1, result => []

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Mar  7 12:36:10 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:36:10 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <eppstein-508119.09361007032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
 philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:

> How about:
> 
>    for i = 1 to 10:
> 
> or
> 
>    for i is 1 to 10:
> 
> I think these are both equally good and both much preferable over 
> the horrible
> 
>    for 1 <= i <= 10:
> 
> which I can only assume is someone's sick idea of a joke.

Your "1 to 10" syntax (and most other ideas floated previously on this 
group) assumes a fixed type of interval (closed, I'm guessing, but it's 
not clear), and not even the most common type (half-open).  The proposed 
syntax makes explicit what would happen at the ends of the intervals.

One alternative proposal, that didn't seem to have as much support but 
might still be worth looking at, was to allow the creation of ranges by
"1 <= ... <= 10" (possible without much modification of the compiler via 
a clever enough definition of "...") so then one could do
"for i in 1 <= ... <= 10".

I would appreciate it if you could give me a more constructive criticism 
of PEP 284 than "horrible", "someone's sick idea of a joke", which don't 
give me much idea why you don't like it.


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 14 22:10:22 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 03:10:22 GMT
Subject: Python2.2 and expat
References: <pan.2002.03.14.17.14.57.755556.13902@crystalcherry.com>
Message-ID: <slrna92m0i.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Colin Fox wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I'm trying to build garnome, which requires Python2.2 + Python2.2-xml.
> I've got Python2.2 built, but for some reason it doesn't seem to build
> expat. And when I try to "import xml.parsers.expat" I get:
> 
>>>> import xml.parsers.expat
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/parsers/expat.py", line 4, in ?
>     from pyexpat import *
> ImportError: No module named pyexpat
> 
> Where is pyexpat supposed to come from? 

It's part of the standard Python 2.2 sources and it is built ok if
you've installed expat *and* the expat development files. Chances are
that Python didn't find the expat headers during build.

If you're using Linux, there's often a seperate package expat-devel or
some such.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From claxtonr at beer.com  Thu Mar 21 00:08:38 2002
From: claxtonr at beer.com (hejduk)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 21:08:38 -0800
Subject: sys.path append problem
Message-ID: <da8db604.0203202108.1d55dbe5@posting.google.com>

I've recently installed python 2.2.1 on my slak 8.0 linux computer. I
want to do some gui programming with wxPython, but in order to do that
I have to change the module search path (sys.path) to include the
wxPython module. I've tried the following:

import sys
sys.append('/some/new/dir')

This works, but when i shut Python down and restart it the Path has
been reset to the default, meaning that it is impossible to run
scripts that attempt to import modules from outside of this default
path. When I used python on windoze the sys.path saved when I appended
to it, so I'm assuming that this is what is suppossed to happen.

I realize that there are several work arounds to this problem, but I
would prefer to correct it rather than cheat around it, because it
could be just a symptom of a larger problem.

Anyone know what the problem is?


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 28 17:15:20 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:15:20 -0600
Subject: findsyms.py - new script to help you document Python...
Message-ID: <15523.38392.350596.205450@beluga.mojam.com>

Got a few minutes to kill during commercials while watching the West Wing or
Survivor?  I just checked findsyms.py into the src/Tools/scripts/ directory
of the Python CVS tree.  This script rummages around in the LaTeX source
looking for symbols that are exported by documented modules, but not
themselves documented.  It generates output like

    ...
    Not mentioned in smtplib docs:
       quoteaddr
       quotedata
    Not mentioned in SocketServer docs:
       ForkingTCPServer
       ForkingUDPServer
       ThreadingTCPServer
       ThreadingUDPServer
       ThreadingUnixDatagramServer
       ThreadingUnixStreamServer
    ...

It's crude, and certainly not foolproof, but I think should help identify
objects within modules that still need to be documented.

Since it's new, you'll have to get it from CVS for the time being.  If you
have the libref sources already, you can snag a copy here (warning: monster
sf.net url ahead that may well break):

    http://cvs.sf.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/python/python/dist/src/Tools/scripts/findsyms.py?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain

Feedback is welcome.  It has only been tried on Linux.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Sun Mar 24 15:53:01 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:53:01 GMT
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <N0rn8.147905$1g.12092398@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c at dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>, Boudewijn
Rempt wrote:
> Running each agent in its own process makes the system very 
> costly in terms of resources, makes it necessary for the agents
> to implement inter-process messaging. Not to mention them
> showing up individually in _top_...

Other than IPC, those are definitely not inherent differences between
threads and processes.  On many systems, processes aren't "very costly"
relative to threads, and on systems that implement threads in the "Plan
9 way" (rfork/sproc/clone on Plan 9/Irix/Linux) rather than the (IME,
broken) Solaris/Win32 way then the threads are likely to show up under
top anyway, though of course this depends on the version of top you're
using (and you can always use process groups and a top utility which
aggregates processes within those groups).

It's okay to worry about performance between threads and processes
as long as you realize that this is an implementation detail rather
than an architectural decision--i.e. measure and make sure it's
actually a performance problem before deciding it is.  The primary
factor in making an architectural choice between threads and processes
should be whether or not you want to share all memory (and I find it
useful to look at it from both sides--also consider "do I explicitly
_not_ want to have protected memory here?")

> That's the received opinion indeed. It still leads to problems.
> I mean -- it's why you can kill a process, but not a thread. But in
> an agent system, every agent (presumably running a thread, although
> I've implemented systems where agents share threads, cooperative
> multi-tasking agents) is on its own, and shouldn't own objects
> or locks.

The basic case sounds like a perfect candidate for muliple processes
to me.

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no  Sun Mar 31 18:53:24 2002
From: mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:53:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Streaming XML-RPC?
References: <slrna9ua49.74f.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>        <3C9F51EE.5000203@jerf.org>        <3C9FAF96.5DE9A0@bgb-consulting.com>  <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa1gb9.87e.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>  <a81584$2gr2$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaaf8bk.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <a81584$2gr2$1 at news.idiom.com>, Jim Dennis wrote:
>In article <slrnaa1gb9.87e.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no>, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>>In article <mailman.1017105342.20070.python-list at python.org>, Skip
>
>>Montanaro wrote:
>
>>> Don>   Are there any decent (finished/tested) Jabber libraries for Python?
>
>>>Don't know what its status is, but there is jabberpy:
>
>>> http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/
>
>> It's LGPL, which may make it unsuitable for some projects (like the
>> standard Python library). But it seems to support the basic protocol.
>
> Why would LGPL be allergic to the Python License?

I don't think it is, but AFAIK you couldn't include GPL or LGPL
software in the Python standard library, for instance. (But then
again, if that were an issue, the authors would probably donate the
code to the PSF anyway...)

--
Magnus Lie Hetland                                  The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org                                  http://anygui.org


From wurmy at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 23:12:43 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:12:43 GMT
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <a7tbd4$qc7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <3CA298C1.6F5791AE@earthlink.net>

jimh wrote:
> 
> I am working on python code that consist of quite a few files (about 50;
> each file contains one class).  All errors returned by functions are numeric
> and are defined in the individual files.  There is a MessageCatalog.py class
> which will map these numbers into strings.  This MessageCatalog.py has to
> import all of the 50 other files to have access to their error numbers.  So
> far, so good - no problems yet.
> 
> Here is the problem: Most of these 50 classes need to use the MessageCatalog
> themselves.  This means, of course, that classA imports MessageCatalog which
> imports classA.  This doesn't work very well.
> 
> Does anyone have ideas on how to deal with this situation?

Like some others already pointed out, exceptions are probably
a better and more Pythonic way to handle this. But maybe, for
some reason, you cannot use them. I cannot see your code,
so I can't tell.

How about putting all error codes in one file? E.g. errors.py:

  FOO_ERROR = 1000
  BAR_ERROR = 1001
  BAZ_ERROR = 1002
  ...etc...

Now all your 50 files can import errors.py and use the error
codes, rather than having to define them themselves.

All your MessageCatalog class needs to do is import that
errors.py file as well. Since it seems to be used for
mapping, have you considered using a dictionary? E.g.

  error_mappings = {
    FOO_ERROR: "Foo not implemented",
    BAR_ERROR: "Ixnay on the bar",
    ...etc...
  }

Again, I can't see your code, so maybe I'm oversimplifying.
Still, knowing your description only, this is how I
would set it up.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA==')) 
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  1 21:26:34 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 02:26:34 GMT
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a5nhn5$8c3$0@216.39.172.122> <j47koweh9l.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a5pd8q$qnd$0@216.39.172.122>

On 01 Mar 2002 11:04:06 +0100, Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
[...]
>
>> Perhaps we could just use a file to contain extra file metadata,
>> letting a file of metadata govern other files it names in the same
>> directory as itself. Probably a dot file in *nix.
>
>Nice idea, different PEP.
>
>> For PEP 263 purposes, it would only need to be a text file with file
>> names tab delimited from keyword=encoding-info, with the first line(s)
>> perhaps with a glob pattern for a compact way of specifying encoding
>> for a lot of files in a directory at once.
>
>I don't think the file encoding information should be stored in a
>different file; the risk of the two files becoming disassociated is
>just to big to be acceptable.
>
Well, there's risk of a sym link becoming dissociated from its file too,
but if you are using the mechanism, it's quickly apparent when it breaks.

I agree there is a dissociation danger, but when an error pops up, it will
be easy to add the misbehaving file's name to the local meta-data directory file.
Encoding detection tools also could do a one-time scan of a directory and validate
the metadata, or at least warn.

If desired you can hide the actual data file by renaming it to a hashed
or other alias name,  using the metadata entry to show the original name
and its symlink-like location option to point to the renamed file. Thus you
force the tools either not to find file_orig_name, or to look in the directory
file, where it will find

    file_orig_name  encoding=UTF-8 location=./hashedname

or not find it at all, but meta-data would not silently be ignored.

But the best way to keep metadata is with actual file system support, as Paul
Prescod mentioned privately (and I was about to go into when I decided my post
was getting too long ;-)

What I want is a universal file typing metadata prefix with codes issued
through a registry system that assigns numbers in a way that provides for both
common de facto standards and private company proprietary file types.

The prefix would be copied with any copy of the data file, but it would be excluded
from the range of normal seek operations.

If the prefix contained a location symlink, that would be all that was copied by
default. Data-verifiable links could contain md5 hashes of the data they link to.
The reason for the location link option is to be able to wrap legacy files and
whole file systems without modifying them, yet being able to integrate them into
the new file system. I like the idea of doing the prefix in UTF-8 so that a local
system can wrap a foreign system with local file names in the "symlinks".

Think of it as meta-data-enhanced UTF-8-encoded super-symlinks, with the principal
purpose of carrying universal-file-type-code & encoding-id in the meta-data, and
the option of an absent location-link meaning data follows immediately in
the same container as the super-symlink.

Note that not touching the linked file's data would allow you to enhance
the meta-data to handle compounded encoding formats which would not allow
embedding -*- "cookies" -*-, such zip, tgz, pgp, bin64, etc., etc.

You could create a new file with the metadata as a prefix with data
immediately following (probably on a block boundary), but this would
be nicest with file system support.

>> To provide international encoding for file-associated info, like
>> a local dialect/special characters name etc., in a system whose
>> native file naming is more restricted, perhaps this directory of
>> file attributes could be standardized to UTF-8 for its own encoding.
>
>We are not talking about file names here, but about file contents.
>
Right, I was 'introducing an optional side benefit'[1] of the main idea.
IOW, you could e.g. have optional meta-data containing a sanskrit string
for whatever purpose, irrespective of the type or encoding declared for
the file that the meta-data was associated with. If the meta-data file
were standardly always UTF-8 encoded, there would be no restriction on *its*
content, though the associated data file might be EBCDIC or whatever.

Whether you wanted to support file annotations, or special-language display names
or whatever would be a design decision above the super-symlink general
infrastructure I am describing.

[1] I guess that's a bad habit when trying to communicate a main idea ;-/

>> There are some changes as to legality checks, apparently,
>> as of last May. I'm wondering if this affects PEP 263
>> and/or the unicode implementation in Python.
>
>That doesn't affect this PEP; as for the Unicode 3.1 conformance, I
>believe the current CVS implements UTF-8 correctly.
>
I'll take your word for it ;-)

BTW, if my display font is Lucida Console will I be able to see infinity
like the 'A' in the following?
 >>> u'\u0041'
 u'A'
 >>> u'\u221e'
 u'\u221e'

Will the following work?

 >>> print u'\u0041'
 A
 >>> print u'\u221e'

 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
 >>>

And if I redirect the output to a file, what will be in the file?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Sat Mar  9 07:54:04 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (A.Newby)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 12:54:04 GMT
Subject: Q: How can I lock a file in Windows?
References: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4> <XBli8.5326$OP.143152@stones>
Message-ID: <Xns91CCF32151FBEAusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>

Graham Ashton <graz at mindless.com> wrote in 
news:XBli8.5326$OP.143152 at stones:

> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:06:08 +0000, A.Newby wrote:
> 
>> Is there another way I can lock the file in Windows?
> 
> Yes. Try this:
> 
>   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203
> 

Thanx! That should work, except I don't seem to have the following 
extension modules ... win32con, win32file, and pywintypes. Any idea where I 
can get them? 



-- 
cdewin at dingoblue.net.au


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Mar 25 19:28:43 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 19:28:43 -0500
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9FBDB0.7E0BCA16@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7ofbr$cn2$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3C9FBDB0.7E0BCA16 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Now that someone has pointed us there repeatedly, but without 
>much explanation, I figured it had to be me, not the site.  Now
>I notice the "ht2html at SourceForge" link in the upper right (hidden
>in plain sight -- the old purloined letter trick!), which leads
>you to the real repository.  And from there you have to click on
>the little "CVS" link, and if you want to browse via the web 
>you then have to click on "Browse CVS repository".  *Then* you
>can see the danged .py files everyone is probably looking for.
>Maybe there's a more direct route, but I didn't see it.
>
>Maybe it's just the ones who already knew how to do this, who
>knew how to do this.... ;-)

Hmmmm...  I guess you're right.  I'll cc Barry on this to clean up the
page a little.

(I guess maybe I searched a little harder than others because I'm used
to pages looking a bit odd in Lynx. ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Tue Mar 26 18:00:34 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:00:34 -0800
Subject: xml config file to python object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.03.26.22.42.54.656285.2901@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <pan.2002.03.26.22.42.54.656285.2901@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <200203262258.g2QMwoq13774@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

> Is there a way to pickle (serialize) any python object
> to xml and back?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=xml_pickle
-- 
  Andy McKay



From nico at aries.logilab.fr  Fri Mar 22 12:44:20 2002
From: nico at aries.logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:44:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
Message-ID: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>

Hello Pythonistas,

I'd like to entertain you with a new subject: logic programming and
constraint-propagation features in Python.

I teach Python and advocate it often. One argument I use is that you
have several "programming paradigms" available in Python. You need
simple things and scripts? Use procedural programming, with variables
and functions. You need more structure? Use object-oriented programming.
You miss Lisp and need to process lists? use (some) functionnal
programming. You need concurrency? Look at Python 2.2's future and
stackless. It's all there. Mix'n match as you wish, you're not tied to
a specific approach, just use what fits best your model and data. No
need to mix languages.

Now, what if you need logical programming? Use pyprolog. And copy
your data back-and-forth from prolog-space to python space. Or look
at Mozart/Oz. Yeah, it's all there too: procedure, functions, objects,
concurrency, logic, constraint-propagation, even distribution and
security.

Right, but the syntax is... difficult. I'm sorry to have to tell
Mozart folks lurking here, that I'm a big fan of "indent-what-you-mean"
and will have trouble telling our new programmers that this complicated
syntax is good for them. And that brackets have different meanings
depending on where they are.

And Python already has a user-base that's increasing at rocket-speed.
When teaching Python I often tell people "if you need to code something
in Python, go to google first, you'll probably find it there and move
to more important matters".

As you already understood, I am thinking about implenting some
logical/constraint-propagation features on Python. My (rough)
understanding is that is would be doable on top of
microthreads/stackless/generators.

I am looking for interested people to form a Logic-SIG or CLP-SIG.
You think this is a great idea? You think this is stupid? Please
speak up! If you have no idea what I am talking about, don't worry,
I'll try to post an example here this week-end.

Waiting for your comments.

-- 
Nicolas Chauvat

http://www.logilab.com - "Mais o? est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France)


From krissepu at vip.fi  Sun Mar 10 16:37:43 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:37:43 +0200
Subject: Syntax to catch specific exceptions ?
Message-ID: <3C8BD227.7D1D5539@vip.fi>

I am trying to find correct python syntax and structure for the
following exceptions
------------------------
mypath = os.path.join(os.getcwd(), 'mydirectory', 'mysettings.pxp')
try:
        f = open(mypath, "r")

except "mydirectory does not exists":
        try:
                create_mydirectory_for_the_next_read()
                save_default_values(mypath)
        except "no permission to create mydirectory":
                do_whatever()

except "no permission to enter mydirectory":
        print "whatever1"
        use_defaults()

except "file mysettings.pxp does not exist":
        print "whatever2"
        use_defaults()

except "no permission to open mysettings.pxp":
        print "whatever3"
        use_defaults()

-------------------------

I can get the error text and number as follows, but how to catch only
"File exists" OSError ?

try:
...  os.mkdir('e:\\tmp')
except OSError, (errno, strerror):
...  print strerror
...
File exists

-pekka-



From xhalasa at fi.muni.cz  Tue Mar 19 04:12:14 2002
From: xhalasa at fi.muni.cz (Jan Halasa)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:12:14 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Gt7qvD.F04@news.muni.cz>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:

> 1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
> 2. Will Python dominate?
> 3. Who does support Python?

This topics were discussed here about 
one month ago, try to search the archive
at groups.google.com.

Jan Halasa


From dpeter at designtheory.org  Fri Mar 15 06:17:39 2002
From: dpeter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 11:17:39 GMT
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <7UYj8.31929$l93.6269941@newsb.telia.net> <a6qqor$duf$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk> <mailman.1016138490.22557.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6sl8j$4au$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>

Tim Legant <tim-dated-1016743233.4ed988 at catseye.net> wrote:
> No.  Your bar() function is broken and the test results invalid.  Try
> this instead:
> 
> def bar(ls):
>    i = 0
>    for x in ls:
>        if x == '998':
>            return i
>        i += 1

Oops, you are right! I fixed it and ran the test again.

3000 times, Python 2.2, Linux:

    i in range(len(ls)):             2.03
    x in ls; i+= :                   2.28
    lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x):  3.76
    Iter class:                     10.18

10000 times:

    i in range(len(ls)):             6.68
    x in ls; i+=1 :                  7.55
    lambda x:zip(range(len(x)), x): 12.56
    Iter class:                     35.56

Interestingly, "range(len(ls))" is still faster.

    Peter


From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Mar 22 17:13:33 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 23:13:33 +0100
Subject: Copmlex structures....
References: <iUMm8.141$%52.3298@jekyl.ab.tac.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D9EC67A4F58cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Dmitry S. Makovey" <dmitry at athabascau.ca> wrote in
news:iUMm8.141$%52.3298 at jekyl.ab.tac.net: 
> Hi. The problem itself is - I want to use complex structures like
> described below, but i want it another way....
> 
> 01. >>> f={}
> 02. >>> f['name']='dimon'
> 03. >>> f['age']=20
> 04. >>> a=[]
> 05. >>> a.append(f)
> 06. >>> print a
> 07. [{'age': 20, 'name': 'dimon'}]
> 08. >>> f['age']=22
> 09. >>> print a
> 10. [{'age': 22, 'name': 'dimon'}]
> 
> I don't like result in the last like I've expected to have [{'age': 
> 20, 'name': 'dimon'}], how could i do this?

it's what i would expect :-)
the list stores a reference to the one and only dictionary object and 
you can get there through the list or through the old name.

> I know that it must be as simple as using something like b[:], but
> what?

that would only give you a copy of the list with copies of all 
references (flat-copy). what you need is a deep-copy that dives and 
copies recursively. look at the "copy" module for such functionality 
and/or serach groups.google.com for "deep copy"

chris


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 20 02:14:39 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:14:39 -0500
Subject: bug tracking system
References: <mailman.1016598631.8231.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9836DF.1E877634@engcorp.com>

mohamed lazreg wrote:
> 
> Dear pythoners,
> 
> Are you aware of any free bug tracking system written
> in python?

Several based on Zope...  (http://www.zope.org)


From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Mar  2 21:07:51 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 03:07:51 +0100
Subject: PEP 234 little bug?
References: <3c817238@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <a5s0hn$dab$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote:
> Just read through some of the already implemented PEPs.

> PEP 234 (iterators) states:

>>      Resolution: this has been implemented.

> I can't see a next() in a file object. Shouldn't it be
> "Resolution: this has not been implemented." ?

No, but you can find a `__iter__' method, and in places where an
iterator is expected that function is called, and low and behold
the resulting object of that __iter__ call does have a next method.

So all is well after all:)

-- 
groetjes, carel


From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar  6 09:17:03 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:17:03 GMT
Subject: Flushing stdout with raw_input - BUG
References: <q0ph8.54$_Z4.217@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <un0xl4w2a.fsf@python.net>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:

> raw_input and several modules that are part of the standard library that 
> handle input and output with stdout and stdin (cmd.py) do NOT - I repeat - 
> do NOT flush stdout before waiting for input.
> 
> No, I don't want to flush buffer stdout everytime I write to it. That is 
> wasteful and inefficient. I want to flush the buffer when I am done writing 
> to it, or when I make a call to raw_input(). (This has been brought up 
> before a long time ago - why is it not fixed? Why does Guido want it to 
> behave like this?)
> 
> If it is running with a terminal, then the underlying code (in C or the 
> Kernel, I am not sure) will flush stdout before reading input. However, it 
> does not automatically flush stdout before reading stdin if stdout and 
> stdin are not terminals.
> 
> That means if I write a program that forks off another process that runs a 
> python script that uses stdin and stdout, (using something like Popen3), 
> then the conversation goes something like this:
[snip melodrama]
> Should I turn on -u for the child script? That is silly. Just write
> raw_input properly, and make everyone happy. If you don't, I'll be
> *forced* to hack on the cpython code, and then you'll *really*
> regret it! =)

Not necessarily -- you could use a pseudo terminal.  That way the
child will think it's talking to a terminal, and so things will be
line buffered.

> I am running Linux 2.4.14 and Python 2.1.2. I tested this bug in Python 2.2 
> and it is still there.
> 
> I posted a bug about cmd not flushing the buffer to sourceforge. I will 
> post another bug about raw_input not flushing the buffer. I will write 
> another bug report about the unresponsiveness to bug reports as well, as 
> there are a lot of bugs that aren't even addressed at sourceforge.

Oh, that will help, sure.

Please note that Python is a volunteer effort.  You have no right to
expect bug reports to be attended to.

However, they are.  I know *I* scan through open bugs fairly
regularly.  Martin von Loewis does the same.  I can only fix the bugs
I have time to fix, and so fix the bugs that seem to me to be worth
fixing.  I've spent multiple hours in just the past few days with my
head stuck deep in the Python internals, and TBH posts like this do
not make me think it was worth it.

> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Examine your code. If you do not use raw_input, then 
> flush your buffers! Otherwise, we will not be able to fork off your 
> script/module and use it as a child process without -u.

If you are interacting with a subprocess that is expecting to talk to
a user, you should probably be using pseudo-tty's.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Just put the user directories on a 486 with deadrat7.1 and turn the
  Octane into the afforementioned beer fridge and keep it in your
  office. The lusers won't notice the difference, except that you're
  more cheery during office hours.              -- Pim van Riezen, asr


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Thu Mar 14 17:39:27 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:39:27 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <zE9k8.13116$pC1.2282339@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

this is really embarassing :-)

>>> import win32com.client
>>> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch('Excel.Application')
>>> xl.WorksheetFunction.StDev(1,1,1,3,3,45,3,2,1,1,2,3,2,1)
11.565627361442019
>>> xl.WorksheetFunction.Pearson((1,4,3,2,5),(5,3,2,5,4))
-0.48507125007266594

-d


"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> hi all,
>
> never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking advice on
how
> to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need to
find
> standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am seeking
> advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i am
> wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the task.
>
> i found this
> http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/ScientificPythonManual/
> but it seems to be unix only and i am on win32. as far as standard
> deviations, i found this in an old ng post.
>
> def stddev( *x ):
>     if not x : return 0
>     if ( len(x) == 1 ): x = x[0]
>     m = mean( x )
>     var = 0
>     for n in x:
>         n = n - m
>         var = var + (n * n)
>     return sqrt( var  / float(len(x)-1) )
>
> There seems to be some stuff in scipy, but i am having trouble geting
> through the docs.  also, do i want to look at numpy?
>
> any suggestions?
>
> thanks,
>
> doug
>
>
>
> *   all text processing thus far.
> **  i think that is the correct term, item total correlations in other
> words.
> *** in general though nobody is going to live or die by what the state
say,
> so a small amount of error is not too big a deal.
>
>




From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar 21 06:24:35 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:24:35 +0100
Subject: eval of a private attribute
References: <3C998F89.66DB1290@infomaniak.ch>
Message-ID: <a7cfsv$kcanm$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Those work both:
--1. Instance variables------
class CObsFile:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__user="~briner/big/usr.rdb"
        self.__location="~genevay/system/location"
    def get(self,var):
        tobeEval ='self._CObsFile__'+var
        print 'toBeval: '+tobeEval
        p=eval(tobeEval)
        print 'Evaluated: '+p
        return p

p=CObsFile()
p.get('user')

--2. Class variables------
class CObsFile:
    __user="~briner/big/usr.rdb"
    __location="~genevay/system/location"
    def get(self,var):
        tobeEval = 'CObsFile._CObsFile__' + var
        print 'toBeval: '+tobeEval
        p=eval(tobeEval)
        print 'Evaluated: '+p
        return p

p=CObsFile()
p.get('user')
--------------------------

HTH

B.
"BRINER Cedric" <work at infomaniak.ch> wrote in message
news:3C998F89.66DB1290 at infomaniak.ch...
> hi,
> I'd like to create a method which will be able to get
> any attribute of the class.
>
> Unfortunately this example is not working:
>
>
> class CObsFile:
>   __user="~briner/big/usr.rdb"
>   __location="~genevay/system/location"
>   def get(self,var):
>     tobeEval ='self.__'+var
>     print 'toBeval: '+tobeEval
>     p=eval(tobeEval)
>     print 'Evaluated: '+p
>     return p
>
> p=CObsFile()
> p.get('user')
>
> any idea why




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Wed Mar 13 08:11:03 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:11:03 +0100
Subject: module import in cgi scripts
References: <slrna8ugie.tc.Dag@omally.animagicnet.no>
Message-ID: <3C8F4FE7.1090001@bigfoot.de>

Dag wrote:
> I'm trying to write a cgi script in python but I'm having a lot of
> problems importing modules.
> 
> I've simplified my script down to
> #!/usr/bin/python2.2
> import pg
> print "hello\n"

This won't work as a CGI script. You'll have to send the HTTP headers, 
then an empty line, then the HTTP body. For the HTTP headers, you'll 
need at least the content type, so use something like this:

print "Content-type: text/plain" # for plain text, or text/html for HTML
print
print "hello"

> if I run it from the command line it prints "hello" as expected,
> but if I put it in my cgi-bin directory and access it from a web
> browser the web server returns Internal Server Error and the 
> error log says:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/www/cgi-bin/summarypie.py", line 4, in ?
>     import pg
> ImportError: No module named pg
> 
> I have checked and double checked and the pg modules is in the
> python sys.path.  What's wrong?

Most probably the CGI script is run as user nobody, group nogroup and 
the pg module or its parent directory don't have the correct 
permissions. Doing a "chmod -R +rX" on your Python library directory 
should fix this.

To test this kind of problem, you can also su to root, then su to nobody 
  to have the same environment a CGI script run under Apache.

Btw. you should also consider using pgdb instead of pg (assuming pg is 
part of PyGreSQL). pgdb is the DB-API 2.0 compliant wrapper on top of 
pg. If you use pgdb, you can easily switch from PyGreSQL to a different 
Python-PostgreSQL database interface later. Or to an altogether 
different database. The pg module, however, uses a proprietary interface.

If you use PyGreSQL, also be sure to use the latest version, as this 
contains fixes for some very annoying bugs. The most current can be 
found inside the PostgreSQL 7.2 source tarball.

Gerhard



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 16 14:54:07 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 20:54:07 +0100
Subject: HP-UX, PyThread_* missing
References: <AvKk8.53063$uA5.56549@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <m3d6y41e74.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Paul F. Dubois" <dubois at users.sourceforge.net> writes:

> I am trying to get Python 2.2 to compile on HP-UX B.10.20. I get a set of
> missing externals with names PyThread_something. I need threads so I don't
> want to turn them off. Is there a package I need to install first? Or some
> other hint about what to do?

If you need threads on HP-UX 10, you may need to write your own thread
package first :-(

Provide more info: what compiler (bundled - nah, can't be, unbundled,
gcc?); what symbols are missing, etc.

In any case, the common understanding is that Python does not really
support threads on HP-UX, and probably never will unless some HP-UX
user who understands all the issues provides patches.

Regards,
Martin


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Fri Mar  8 07:29:22 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:29:22 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com>

"les ander" <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> i am just curious as to why different programming languages have
different
> speed. I understand that if a language has an extensive grammar
> (such as c++) the compiler would take longer.

Modern parsing technology just about eliminates any effect
of the grammer on compile speed, unless the parser needs to
do huge amounts of backtracking. What affects compile speed
is externals such as how many header (or whatever name you
call it) files need to be accessed for a compile, and how much
optimization you do.

> But what about execution?
> why is a perl program faster than similar python program?

There's no good evidence that Perl is substantially faster than
Python. It varies by application.

> For example
> when java came out it use to be pretty slow, but now it is pretty
fast. How
> was this speed-up acheived and why is it not possible to have such a
speed up
> for python?

Part of the speedup was relentless optimization by the various Java
licencees, and part was "just in time" compilation. So far, nobody has
worked on a JIT engine for Python. There's a vast difference in the
amount
of effort expended on Java as opposed to Python.

John Roth

>
> thanks
> les
>
> P.S. I am just trying to understand and do not intend to put down
python by
> any means.




From terabaap at yumpee.org  Fri Mar  1 14:38:42 2002
From: terabaap at yumpee.org (Manoj Plakal)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:38:42 -0600
Subject: RSS writer module?
Message-ID: <3C7FD8C2.9040702@yumpee.org>

Does anyone know of a Python module to
write RSS files? The format is
not that hard to generate manually
but perhaps someone's already
done it?

Manoj



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 12:30:19 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:30:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <6874703.1015406166@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020306093019.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 06-Mar-2002 David Eppstein wrote:
> On 3/6/02 9:08 AM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
>> From watching the lists I have seen more people looking for C
>> style for(;;) loops than anything.  The syntax you propose is extremely
>> confusing to anyone who has used a for loop in C.  My other complaint is
>> the lack of generality caused by not using the C syntax.
> 
> Thanks for the comments, but it seems clear (and I think it's a good thing) 
> that C-style for's are not going to happen in Python.  They're very 
> general, but not very intuitive, especially to non-C-programmers.
> 

The intention was not 'we should have C style for loops'.  Rather, I was trying
to point out the limited gain from adding the propsed syntax.  I personally
find it annoying to have special case syntax.

Loop over the first M numbers in a sequence:

for n <= var < n+m: print var

Loop over the even numbers between N and M:

for var in xrange(n, m, 2): print var

A new programmer frequently tries something simple like the first item, then
moves onto the second.  I believe they would be equally confused by the need
for a completely different syntax.



From holger at trillke.net  Sun Mar 24 10:59:56 2002
From: holger at trillke.net (holger at trillke.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:59:56 +0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
In-Reply-To: <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com>; from aahz@pythoncraft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:03:27AM -0500
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020324165956.E12768@prim.han.de>

> >how could you stop a running threading.Thread from the *outside*? of
> >course i could introduce some kind of flag into the event loop of the
> >Thread.run-method, but i really would prefer to have a non-instrusive
> >way for several reasons.
> >
> >Any way to do this?
> 
> Not really.  Why do you want to do it?

You really want to know it? I am currently working
on (coded) agents which move through the network.

Some Agents want to actively run in a thread
(my http-serving agent for instance). And i would rather not 
impose any restrictions on their event loops. 
But of course i'd sometimes like to shut down some or
all agent-threads. Any ideas? Maybe something 
with signals (one of the areas i have no experience
with)?

Is the questions actually strange in any way? Like something
you wouldn't usually like to do?

	holger



From devnull at terra.com.br  Sat Mar 23 20:21:48 2002
From: devnull at terra.com.br (Devnull)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:21:48 -0300
Subject: Where can I find these imports? (with the imports' imports included :P)
Message-ID: <001801c1d2d2$456fe250$02c8a8c0@christo.com>

seriously I need to compile a program I found that needs these files:

import Tkinter
import tkFileDialog
import Pmw       
import level
import guimaker
import formgui
import shelve
import os
import os.path
import guimixin
from guimixin import *

I got already Pmw, but I can't find guimaker, formgui, level and guimixin anywhere, I wonder if anyone has them, can they please send me these files? or tell me where I can get them (with their respective imports)
thank you
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From cliechti at gmx.net  Mon Mar 25 16:48:01 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 22:48:01 +0100
Subject: Doing a ps in windows.. (Is application XYZZY running?)
References: <m38z8g74hw.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Xns91DCE815E6851cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Andrew Markebo <flognat at flognat.myip.org> wrote in 
news:m38z8g74hw.fsf at localhost.localdomain:
> *blush* yeah I know.. not really.. here, only almost :-)
> 
> I have the windows-compiled python 2.2, and I would like to see if
> Opera or Netscape is running on my computer (poor sod, running 
Win2k,
> XP or 98).. How do I do this, I suppose I could use something in 
the
> win32api, but what is something.. :-) ??

there is an example on EnumWindows in the win32all package. it gives 
you integer window handles which you can then use to retreive the 
GetWindowText.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Mar  5 20:27:39 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:27:39 -0000
Subject: New Python CGI/FastCGI/web-templating system
Message-ID: <slrna8as3t.9oc.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

Just a quick note to say that I have put an alpha release of my
Python CGI/FastCGI/web-templating system up at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jonpy (with documentation and examples
at http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/ if you don't want to bother
downloading it), so if anyone is interested in this sort of thing and
willing to try out alpha software, please take a look (and let me know
what you think!).

(And yes, I know there are a zillion and one similar systems already,
but mine is, of course, better <wink> And actually I think the
templating system is genuinely innovative in the way it corresponds
document structure with nested classes.)


From andy.mckay at merlinsoftech.com  Wed Mar  6 14:28:57 2002
From: andy.mckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:28:57 -0800
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
In-Reply-To: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200203061928.g26JSoq09361@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

On March 6, 2002 11:14 am, Julio Nobrega wrote:
>   Well, enough is enough, isn't? Where do I start? It's for a weblog
> (Kuro5hin-like) system.

Its all been done before so it depends how much work and reinventing you want 
to do. Squishdot will get you up and running in the time it takes you to read 
all these emails.
-- 
  Andy McKay



From psage at ncaustin.com  Thu Mar 21 16:53:52 2002
From: psage at ncaustin.com (Paul Sage)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:53:52 -0600
Subject: TKinter Question
Message-ID: <03F53405C6ED434A986221919785A6A7106BE1@nca-postal.ncaustin.com>

Hi all.  I am new to the list; the impetus for my signing up is a
roadblock.  :-)

I am currently working with a quick and dirty little App for learning
Python.  I am using Tkinter because the app really needs a GUI.  

Global variables within the module:
pointsAvailable = 5
currentPointsToSpend = "Current Points left to spend:
%s"%pointsAvailable

Inside the class definition of an object that is the GUI window:
        self.pointsLeftToSpend = Label(root, relief = RIDGE, borderwidth
= 1,
                                       anchor = N, justify=CENTER,
                                       textvariable =
currentPointsToSpend).pack()

My problem is with textvariable.  No matter what I seem to do, it just
won't show up.  Is this because it falls out of scope somehow?  It
doesn't happen with all of the other Tkinter variables.  It just won't
show up.  So I am in desperate need of some help.  I don't want to spend
all day with this.  :-(  Sorry, I don't have anything positive to
provide with my first post.  Just problems.



- As for me?  Make mine Marvel!

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From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 10:59:14 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:59:14 -0000
Subject: visual python
References: <20020327104352.12035.00000368@mb-mk.aol.com>
Message-ID: <a7sq8i$76a$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <20020327104352.12035.00000368 at mb-mk.aol.com>,
Marxdormoy <marxdormoy at aol.com> wrote:
>downlaod visual python ?  website?

Search engine? Google?

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 17:31:52 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:31:52 -0500
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017002737.5697.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E53D8.4FA20F3D@engcorp.com>

holger at trillke.net wrote:
> 
> > "The network"?  Which one?  The Internet, or an internal
> > network over which you have full control?  Who controls
> > the servers on which these agents will be running?
> 
> well. at the moment the servers are under my control.
> but this is hopefully going to change.

So is your purpose in shutting down threads that you want
to prevent agents written by others from running forever?
Or can you count on the good behaviour of those writing 
agents to run on these servers?

> In fact it is quite hard to group the agent-threads because they are very
> autonomous (and btw quite cooperative with other agents).

"Cooperative"?  As in, working together on problems?  Or
working on their own individual problems without any 
interference or perhaps interaction?

-Peter


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Mar  9 11:42:48 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:42:48 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Aplython
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203091939560.9199-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Can't wait for April 1 season. Does anybody works
on such a beast as APL<->Python+Numeric code converter?

;-)

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, March 09, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "And now for something ruder..." _/




From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Sat Mar  9 07:02:33 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (Flavian Hardcastle)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 12:02:33 GMT
Subject: Q: How can I lock a file in Windows?
References: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4> <XBli8.5326$OP.143152@stones>
Message-ID: <Xns91CCEA662BCEBAusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>

Graham Ashton <graz at mindless.com> wrote in 
news:XBli8.5326$OP.143152 at stones:

> On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:06:08 +0000, A.Newby wrote:
> 
>> Is there another way I can lock the file in Windows?
> 
> Yes. Try this:
> 
>   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203
> 

Thanx! That should work, except I don't seem to have the following 
extension modules ... win32con, win32file, and pywintypes. Any idea where I 
can get them? 

-- 
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether 
a man is wise by his questions."  Naguib Mahfouz

netvegetable at dingoblue.net.au


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 14:10:26 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:10:26 -0800
Subject: turning a python script to windows service
References: <c5e68843.0203252143.19ccdd06@posting.google.com> <3CA014BC.6090204@skippinet.com.au> <c5e68843.0203262014.18f66430@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA21921.833C3FB1@ccvcorp.com>


kedai wrote:

> is there anything special that i need to do if i wanted to do more
> stuff; for example, i tried copying files but nothing was copied.
>
> snippet:
> os.system('copy file filedst') #instead of print statement

This *should* work if you specify the fully qualified pathnames for the files involved.  One of the
things to watch out for with services (in my *very* limited experience), is that it's not safe to assume
much of anything about your environment (including current working directory, etc).  If you want to test
it, I'd change the above statement to this:

cmdline = 'copy file filedst'
print cmdline
output = os.popen(cmdline)
for line in output:
    print line

This will, first off, print (to the trace window) the command that you're intending to run. Then it runs
the command in a pipe, giving you the output of that command, which is printed to the trace window.  This
should help you to see what, if anything, is happening -- if you're getting an error from Windows for
that command, this should display that error in the trace window.

Of course, for small files, I'd be more likely to copy them using this:

    open(filedst, "wb").write( open(file, "rb").read() )

rather than using the os.system() call.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar 23 02:09:04 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:09:04 -0500
Subject: circular imports (don't yell!)
References: <mailman.1016860656.32479.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9C2A10.E54A917B@engcorp.com>

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> 
> >
> > Also, do you realize that "from X import *" is a bad idea
> > in general?  I'll assume that was just something you did
> > to try to reproduce the problem in a small sample program...
> >
> 
> in his defense, the gui libs often expect you have done a from X import *.
> otherwise your commands are fiendishly long and ugly.
> 
> win = gui.create_window(gui.top_level, gui.foo, gui.bar)

If he's writing the equivalent of the GUI libs, I take your point.
Though I admit there are specific cases where that's a valid thing 
to do (I did say "bad idea _in general_", not "bad idea always"),
I suspect this is not one of those cases.  Or at least I was just
trying to caution him in case he didn't know about that guideline.

-Peter


From timr at probo.com  Sun Mar  3 19:09:03 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:09:03 -0800
Subject: Minor, minor style question
References: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <7le58u86cc6u7ibsdobuj7jk8gqobuluq5@4ax.com>

claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:

>Why would I prefer
>  string = ""
>  string = string + "abc "
>  string = string + "def "
>  string = string + "xyz"
>over
>  string = "abc " + \
>	      "def " + \
>	      "xyz"
>?  I see a lot of the former in contexts I associate
>with Visual Basic- or JavaScript-majority folkways.
>Is there an attraction to the redundancy (and fragil-
>ity!) I'm missing?  Are \-s *so* deprecated?

Visual Basic programmers write things this way because VB didn't support
line continuation characters until relatively recently.  Until then, you
either had to write your concatenated strings as one VERY long line, or via
your first method.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From spencer at efn.org  Fri Mar  1 17:56:44 2002
From: spencer at efn.org (Spencer Ernest Doidge)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:56:44 -0800
Subject: Windows Memory Mapped Files
Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203011455170.1233-100000@garcia.efn.org>

Is there a way, running a Python script in a console window, to read/write
Memory Mapped files?

Spencer Doidge
www.spencerdoidge.com



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  8 04:09:52 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 10:09:52 +0100
Subject: Returning strings from DLLs written in Delphi
References: <e6bacef5.0203071731.d1d87df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3vgc72zof.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

tkeon0 at netscape.net (Trevor Keon) writes:

> I have been trying to get a DLL written in Delphi 5 to return a string
> to Python 2.1.2 (i use windll to access the dll), and all I get is a
> bunch of numbers(the numbers stay the same too).
[...]
> Does anyone have any ideas how to get around this problem?  

I recommend to not use windll, but to write an explicit wrapper
instead (in C or Pascal, at your option).  To my knowledge, PASCAL
strings start with a length indication. I doubt that this is a data
type supported by windll.

Regards,
Martin


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Mar 27 12:08:13 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:08:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: instrumenting Python code
In-Reply-To: <15521.59902.657216.982543@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270905490.20033-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>     Dave> The hotshot module doesn't appear to have any documentation
>     Dave> yet.
>
> That's true.  Here's my simple usage scenario:
>
>     import hotshot
>     profiler = hotshot.Profile("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
>     profiler.run("main()")
>     profiler.close()
>     stats = hotshot.Stats("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
>     stats.print_stats()

Thank you! This is way cleaner than what I posted!

Now, about profiling multithreaded applications. Do you have any
suggestions?

-Dave




From andy.elvey at paradise.net.nz  Sat Mar  2 21:59:57 2002
From: andy.elvey at paradise.net.nz (Andy Elvey)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:59:57 +1300
Subject: PEP 262 (database of installed Python packages) 
Message-ID: <3wgg8.685$Qo2.70120@news02.tsnz.net>

Hi all.
  I've just been mulling over this (_very_ good and welcome!) PEP.  In fact,
this suggestion is _so good_  that I'd like to "widen" it somewhat.   Allow
me to explain .... (and please forgive the slight diversion past "Rubyland"
.... :-)
  I've spent a _frustrating_ amount of time with a _Ruby_ package that can't
find various files.  Now, I knew about PEP 262, so I was thinking in general
terms,  it would be *truly* wonderful if there were a (standard?) database
of  *all*  installed packages (Python, Ruby, and whatever else) - maybe in a
directory called "search".   In Linux, this could be "/search" ,  in Win32
"C:\search".
  ( I'm just trying to get maximum value for any effort put into the search
area , as this _really_ is a bugbear for most prog languages .....  :-) .
I'm mulling over putting in a RCR (Ruby change request) , with the
possibility of that being co-ordinated with PEP262.
   If this were to be done (an all-in-one database),  it would certainly
take a fair amount of coordination, with say Matz and a few others .  In
Linux, maybe the creation of a standard "search" directory and database
would fall into the LSB (Linux Standard Base) area - I'm aware that v1 of
that has just been done, so this may take a while.  Windows may be more
problematic .....
   Anyway - just thought I'd test the waters on this - is there anyone else
out there who'd love to see a single "search database"?  ( Imagine - no more
fiddling with this path, or that path , blah blah .... )  Thanks for your
time, and for your comments !









From ggerrietts at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 17:01:24 2002
From: ggerrietts at yahoo.com (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:01:24 -0800
Subject: new images from strings using PIL
In-Reply-To: <3C828D16.9020201@mxm.dk>
References: <a5osud$nj1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov> <3C828D16.9020201@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <20020303220124.GB12980@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Max M (maxm at mxm.dk):
> BL wrote:
> 
> >pixels = "1 2 3 4 5 6" //test pixels
> >im = Image.fromstring("I", (2,1), pixels) //create a 3x2 image from pixels
> >These values are obviously wrong.  Why isn't my 3x2 image being created 
> >with the proper pixel intensities?

I can't answer this question exactly, because I'm not familiar with
the "I" image format. However, I can offer some insight into what
"fromstring" and "tostring" expect to do.

The string is straight binary data. Max is right about that. But it's
not stored as a particular file format. The string needs to be
represented more or less like it will be internally stored. (This
isn't entirely true, because PIL does some padding of bytes in its
internals, but it's mostly true.)

RGB and RGBA are what I'm most familiar with, because that's what I
generally work with. For those formats, you're looking for a sequence
of 3 or 4 bytes per pixel, respectively. For instance, your 3x2 image
in all white might look like:

s = "\xFF" * 3 * 6
p = Image.fromstring("RGB", (3,2), s)

Again, I'm not sure how the "I" format works, but my guess is that
you're going to want to pack your integers into a string.

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <ggerrietts at yahoo.com>
-rw-rw-rw-:  permissions of the beast



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar  7 10:01:25 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:01:25 -0500
Subject: create zip archive
References: <f5adfd88.0203061519.608151a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UgLh8.382871$n73.12061353@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"99miles" <mac at magusdesigns.com> wrote in message
news:f5adfd88.0203061519.608151a7 at posting.google.com...
> hi-
>  i am creating a zip file from a directory. it is working great, but
> the files in the subdirectories get put into the top level directory
> in the zip file. I want the directory structure to remain intact when
> i extract the zip file.
>  How can I do this? Any ideas? thanks a lot-
>  Mac
>
> I am using this code, currently:
>
> for name in glob.glob("mypath/*"):
>      if os.path.isfile(name):
>           file.write(name, os.path.basename(name),
> zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)

Seems like all you have to do is remove some of the stuff you already put in
<wink/>. The second (arcname) argument to the zipfile.write() method assigns
the path within the archive with which the named file's content will be
associated). so, if your last line became <untested>::

    file.write(name, name, zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)

I'm guessing you'd be in better shape </untested>.

Tips:
    for testing, just omit the last argument to .write() -- it still works.
    It may even work out faster given the defaults and your environment.
    WinZip et al should be able to handle the resulting files.
    You can even compress them!

The code looks OK, though I guess you are aware that it only goes one level
deep in the directory hierarchy. You only have to ask and you will get
several brilliant suggestions as to how to generalize your perfectly
adequate algorithm (none from me, BTW <wink/>). You may already know that
PythonTime, the universal standard on c.l.py, sometimes gets manipulated in
ways we only become aware of later.

To save you some time, here's a synopsis of the next seven days on this
thread. Twenty-four hours after your original posting the discussion turns
to suggestions for recursive solutions of your problem. A further
twenty-four hours sees the focus change to whether recursive methods are
better generally (for several different values of "generally"). Several
people nostalgically remark how like their favorite LISP Python is, and
they'll still be talking about LISP in another thread in another ten years.
They will be right.

After three days, someone complainsthat the interpreter still doesn't
optimize tail recursion. A day later, when a mild flurry of "this has been
discussed many times before" and "have you never used Google" postings has
died down, people are talking about how the zipfile is the salvation of the
import world. Nobody will ever ask you whether you got your original problem
solved, and after two weeks the thread becomes a discussion on how distutils
could import modules from XML namespaces with authenticated access. But
we'll love it when you tell us how you did solve your problem. Especially as
a HOWTO.

Welcome to c.l.py

in-the-spirit-of-less-is-more-ly y'rs  - steve

FRED - THIS ONE'S COMING THROUGH ON A FAT PIPE YOU MAY HAVE TO PULL THE PLUG





From thibaut.leduc at ac-lille.fr  Fri Mar 15 05:54:38 2002
From: thibaut.leduc at ac-lille.fr (tleduc)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 02:54:38 -0800
Subject: converting reference name to string ?
Message-ID: <14b2057b.0203150254.2480f7ae@posting.google.com>

example:

def a():
  print 'hello'

==> string is   a.__name__

but for instances:

class myclass:
  ....etc....

b = myclass()
c = myclass()

in execution of this script, how do i get reference string 'a' 'b' or 'c' ?

Thanks in advance.

Thibaut


From anthony at ekit-inc.com  Sun Mar  3 23:03:06 2002
From: anthony at ekit-inc.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:03:06 +1100
Subject: what I would like to see in python to make a better "glue" language (Newbie) 
In-Reply-To: Message from anthony_barker@hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker) 
   of "26 Feb 2002 13:25:15 -0800." <899f842.0202261325.6ff3dd54@posting.google.com> 
Message-ID: <200203040403.g24436x04613@burswood.off.ekorp.com>

[sorry about the delay in responding, my email access is somewhat
sporadic at present]

>>> Anthony_Barker wrote
> 1. LDAP module should be included in the base distro. Active Directory
> is already available via com (nice)

I'm not convinced that this should be in the base distribution. Aside from
anything else, it often requires particular LDAP libraries to install. I
do think it should be easier to find and auto-install packages, but the
standard answer to this is, as ever, "send code".

> Important:
> 2. DNS really should be included in the base library, I emailed
> Anthony Baxter and he replied, saying it was almost done. It is a
> hassle to parse the dig (nslookup) output as I ended up doing, as it
> is not portable.

Yep. I'm still waiting for my bloody ADSL connection so I can pick this
up and run with this. 

> 3. Telnet Library is great - including an SSH module would be a nice
> addition.

There's two sourceforge projects for this:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyssh1/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyssh/

I've not compared the two, though.

> Less important:
> 4. Include an SNMP implementation, there are several around, but a
> pure python one as a library would be nice

Again, not really suitable for the base install, but as an added extra
it would be nice.

> 5. RRDTOOL - a nice wrapper would be nice ( there may be one already)

Not sure.
 
> One more idea for Administrators/Glue Implementers; lots of code
> examples is key. 

Someone needs to write these examples. This is a non trivial amount of
work.

Anthony


-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never to late to have a happy childhood.




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Mon Mar  4 20:51:50 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 17:51:50 -0800
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015290310.3794.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xvgcblr2h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> I don't understand your "no":  the output shows that Python was built using
> GCC 2.95.2, yet you're claiming this does *not* use glibc?  gcc and glibc go
> together like Guido and Van Rossum <wink>.

The BSD-based distributions generally use the BSD C library (done at
Berkeley) rather than glibc, in order to avoid the GNU GPL/LGPL 
affecting the compiled/linked binaries.


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 18:57:26 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:57:26 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OFF6C64A17.E467BC21-ON88256B6F.00828A05@i2.com>

[Jim]
> In other words, if I want to iterate up (smaller up to larger) I need to
> write the for-loop as
>     for smaller <= i <= larger:  # can *only* iterate up
> but if I want to iterate down (larger down to smaller) I need to write
the
> for-loop with the reverse relational operators
>     for larger >= i >= smaller:  # can *only* iterate down
>
> So if you want/need "from/to" functionality for an "interval" using the
> suggested for+relational idiom, you need to have two for-loops at hand,
> test the bounds, *and* pick the corresponding, correct for-loop (whose
> relational operators are in the correct direction).
>
> Note that the existing range and xrange functions (when used in a
> for-loop), although requiring a test on the bounds in order to determine
> the correct order of the args, do *not* require the use of two for-loops
in
> this context.
>     for i in range(n,m,step):  # can iterate up or down depending on
> n,m,step


[David Eppstein]
> Ok, I missed your point that the iteration order and not just the
> endpoints are important in your example.
>
> But I think the current range system does too require two loops.

I guess I was still a little fuzzy in my explanation.  I meant this:

(ignore open/closed stuff)

>>>
>>> def printFromTo(start,end):
...   # only dealing with step == 1 or -1
...   step = 1
...   if start > end:
...     step = -1
...   for i in range(start,end,step): # up or down
...     print i
...
>>> printFromTo(5,10)
5
6
7
8
9
>>> printFromTo(10,5)
10
9
8
7
6
>>>


> Anyway, while you may need two ranges, you don't have to have two
> separate for-loops over those ranges:
>     if from <= to: range = [x for from <= x <= to]
>     else: range = [x for from >= x >= to]
>     for x in range:
>         ...

I agree that if you actualize the ranges using list comp.s as shown, then
your one final for-loop is enough.  I was counting list comp.s as "for
loops", also.  But your example shows what I was trying to say.  In this
case you need one list comp for the "up" case and one for the "down" case.
That is the limitation that I was trying to point out.

Jim




From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar  1 14:11:34 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:11:34 -0800
Subject: __abs(self)__?
References: <f3Qf8.2391$26.139172@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a5ok3f$8t6sh$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Mike Carifio" <carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com> wrote in message
news:f3Qf8.2391$26.139172 at typhoon.maine.rr.com...
> I'm reading about special method names. __abs__(self), which maps to
the
> abs() method seems unneccessary(?).

compare:



From amckay at merlinsoftech.com  Mon Mar 11 13:14:49 2002
From: amckay at merlinsoftech.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:14:49 -0800
Subject: Zope stdin
In-Reply-To: <llbp8ug5u7kpo2q7f672hnpsdjo9dbae9o@4ax.com>
References: <3C8BECF0.30207@void.si> <kkSi8.96385$V15.14380856@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <llbp8ug5u7kpo2q7f672hnpsdjo9dbae9o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200203111814.g2BIEKq26225@mail.merlinsoftech.com>

On March 11, 2002 06:17 am, you wrote:
> Are you sure? My echo is not working properly in ZCGI.
> BTW, I dont want to run a separate process, i just want to read()
> posted data AS in CGI.

Why can you not do this in Zope as Python Script, External Method or even 
DTML?  The Zope mailing lists are normally a good place for answers BTW.
-- 
  Andy McKay



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 08:58:52 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:58:52 GMT
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
References: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <Xns91D1A9EBA13CFduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a6shn9$9l6$1@crusher.de.colt.net>
Message-ID: <v6nk8.243833$pN4.14585546@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Tino Lange" <tl_news at nexgo.de> wrote in message
news:a6shn9$9l6$1 at crusher.de.colt.net...
> Duncan Booth wrote:
> > Yes, that will make a copy. But copying a list is a pretty
efficient
> > operation, so no, it isn't really horribly inefficient. Have you
tried it
> > and identified this as a bottleneck? How long are your lists
anyway?
>
> 3600 Elements each.

The copy requires 4*3600+10(about) bytes - about 15000 - and less than
a millisecond with two allocations for header and list of pointers and
two machine-code memmove instructions.  Probably not a bottlenect
operation on any modern machine.

Terry J. Reedy





From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar  6 12:24:38 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 17:24:38 GMT
Subject: Flushing stdout with raw_input - BUG
References: <q0ph8.54$_Z4.217@news.hananet.net> <un0xl4w2a.fsf@python.net> <Dsqh8.57$_Z4.284@news.hananet.net> <uit894rdg.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8ck6l.kr2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <uit894rdg.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson wrote:
>> I did a semi-thorough investigation on the matter, and there really isn't 
>> much information on how I make the move from being a python user to a 
>> developer. Apparently it's by invitation only. Do I just keep submitting 
>> bugs and patches and opinions and eventually someone will notice me
> 
> More or less, yes.

I once started a document describing how Python is developed, and how
to help. A draft is at
http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/python-dev.html .  What this thread
shows is that the section on reporting bugs should be expanded before
calling it complete...

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Beware the devious Calib. One day he'll get so cunning even he won't
know what he's planning.
    -- Leela, in "The Face of Evil"


From eti_antoniutti at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 06:17:38 2002
From: eti_antoniutti at hotmail.com (etienne)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 03:17:38 -0800
Subject: python cgi problem
Message-ID: <1573b893.0203250317.693ef1dc@posting.google.com>

hi there !

I'm programming such a cgi:
step 1- user submits some data
step 2- cgi validates data
step 3- outputs a html file telling the user to wich url point to find
output
step 4- do the hard work.

the reason for step 3 is that step 4 needs to dig in a very large
database, and may take lot of time

everything woks fine but output of step3 comes when step 4 is over and
user needs to wait up to some minutes for his response.

cgi schema is as follow:

def main():
   # 2 
   params = validate_params()
   # 3 
   htm_out  = generate_output()
   print htm_out
   # 4
   os.system(" python my_module.py params &")


I can see results of   print htm_out when os.system(" python
my_module.py params &") is over

can i force htm_out output somehow ???

any suggestion
tnxs in advance
etienne


From gjlap at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 01:10:41 2002
From: gjlap at yahoo.com (Gil)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 22:10:41 -0800
Subject: python and eroaster
Message-ID: <1eed326b.0202282210.2ba54f24@posting.google.com>

I've installed eroaster-2.0.11-0.7.noarch.rpm with no problem on my
RedHat 7.1 box. I chose noarch because it seemed to be the only stable
version that wasn't i586 or i686.

I used the 'extra' verbose switch with rpm and it gave a complete run
down of the install. It's all there.

But when I try to run it, 

bash: /usr/bin/eroaster: No such file or directory 

It even finds the dir! The executable shows up in kde with the proper
permissions but not as an icon of a gear but as a piece of paper with
a question mark on it. Hmmm, something not right here ;-)

I'm running Python2.2 and it gets along OK with my Pygame stuff.

Thanks in advance for any help in this matter.

-Gil


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 19:02:42 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:02:42 -0500
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at> <3C837DD1.2007DFA0@engcorp.com> <3C838BD4.5A5D9298@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C840B22.A30CD7AE@engcorp.com>

Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Siegfried Gonzi wrote:
> 
> > As far as absolute time goes, don't use a tool for that.  Just
> > run the program and ask yourself "was that fast enough for my
> > needs?".  If your program runs once a day, even 70 sec is fast
> > enough.  If you run it every thirty seconds, I guess you have
> > to go with the Clean version after all. :-)
> 
> Please: Do not use Clean!  [...]

Trust me, no risk of that happening.  Python serves all my 
programming needs, and then some, except for the embedded work I do.  
C handles all my programming needs there, except for a little
bit of low-level embedded work I do.  Assembly handles all my 
programming needs there...

I'm just happy that after twenty years of programming I actually
have so few languages to serve all my needs.  Pretty amazing, really,
when I think about it.  (Thanks, Guido. ;-)

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 08:17:38 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:17:38 -0500
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
References: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <Xns91D1A9EBA13CFduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a6shn9$9l6$1@crusher.de.colt.net>
Message-ID: <3C91F472.FB2B67C7@engcorp.com>

Tino Lange wrote:
> 
> > Yes, that will make a copy. But copying a list is a pretty efficient
> > operation, so no, it isn't really horribly inefficient. Have you tried it
> > and identified this as a bottleneck? How long are your lists anyway?
> 
> 3600 Elements each.
> 
> No I didn't check if it's a bottleneck. But I immediately didn't feel good
> when writing "return list(newlist)" (the list contains a list of strings 
> itself - so it's much stuff to copy)

Get over it.  3600 elements is nothing, especially once you realize that
the strings themselves are not duplicated, just the references.

Anyway, the "immediately didn't feel good" thing is probably a feeling
you'd best learn to ignore more. :-)  Only optimize when you have actually
identified a bottleneck by profiling.  And a "bottleneck" is not something 
that runs "slow", but something that runs "too slow" which means you 
also need to have a specific requirement in mind before spending your
valuable time optimizing.  Once I learned this it has made my programming
life much easier.

-Peter


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Tue Mar  5 21:31:55 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 02:31:55 GMT
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
Message-ID: <vcfh8.405$tL.70@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

Is the following code operating this way by design or is it just
implementation?  It seems to indicate that the nested function is redefined
each time the parent function is called.  Is this necessary or desirable?

Just wondering what other people think.

>>> text = "random text"
>>> def function():
            def attribute( bindNow = text):
                print bindNow
            function.attribute = attribute
...
>>> function.attribute()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: attribute

>>> function()
>>> function.attribute()
random text

>>> text = "new random Text"
>>> function.attribute()
random text

>>> function()
>>> function.attribute()
new random Text
>>>
--
-





From garret_mcgraw at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 19:34:49 2002
From: garret_mcgraw at yahoo.com (Garret McGraw)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:34:49 -0500
Subject: Digest Number 868
Message-ID: <20020318193449.A1716@wood.mcgraw.org>

Hi-

Does any know a good way to talk to a mysql database besides depending on the fact that the computer 
might happen to have that mysql module installed?  I guess I could just figure out how the protocol works
and access it by opening a socket to it and interpert what it gives me...... but I would like to know
if someone has already done that and see if i could download it.  It can be very simple...just as long
as its there and it will do simple things.  If there is no such thing then does anyone just think this 
is a project that could not done right?
Let me know what you think about it.

GEM




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Mar 12 19:38:11 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:38:11 -0500
Subject: NormalDate 1.2 released
References: <mailman.1015973900.12906.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8E9F73.E03FD8D4@engcorp.com>

"Delaney, Timothy" wrote:
> 
> 13 x 28 day (4 week) months = 364 days.
[...]
> IIRC this is the system that the shire hobbits used.
> 
> Why was this simple system never adopted?

I'm pretty sure it's because the hobbits were all wiped
out after Sauron rose again and conquered Middle Earth,
imposing the Unified Mordorian Calendar system across
much of the planet until the changes made by Pope Gregory
in 1582.

-Peter


From rs96057 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 19:34:44 2002
From: rs96057 at hotmail.com (Dimitris Garanatsios)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:34:44 +0200
Subject: pythonwin and raw_input
References: <DMNn8.12699$n8.8704@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <a7ofn3$2103$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>

>
> Does anyone know how to access the builtin raw_input function in
pythonwin?
> Pyhtonwin overrides it with a dialog box.  This doesn't work out too well
> with the following:
>

The same problem used to torture me but i think the most proper solution is
just to ignore it...
You could make a shortcut to run your program or run it from a Command
prompt, in which case everything should work fine (as far as the "raw_input"
part is concerned...)

In general i try to avoid running programs from within IDEs, such as IDLE or
PythonWin, and the reason is that initialisation of the interpreter after
the program exits cannot be done, leading someone to problems and
mischief... (for example if you had imported a module from the interactive
window of PythonWin, then the module would be available in the namespace of
module __main__ of any loaded script even without a direct import statement
from within your program!)

I also have noticed problems when running  wxPython applications from within
PythonWin...
So unless you can't avoid it, don't use the "Run" command (although it is
still useful for small scripts and for testing purposes...)

Dimitris





From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Fri Mar 22 15:32:34 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:32:34 -0500
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <jjb5-121CA5.15323422032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

> I am looking for interested people to form a Logic-SIG or CLP-SIG.

Count me in.

> I'll try to post an example here this week-end.

Looking forward to it, I'll have a counter example on Monday.  :-)


Joel


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 19 21:52:17 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 02:52:17 GMT
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122>

On 19 Mar 2002 16:17:15 -0800, jriveramerla at yahoo.com (Jose Rivera) wrote:

>Hi...
>
>Thanks in advance for any help...
>
>I want to retrieve data from the web for historic research 
>about real state prices, fetching the info from a newspaper page, 
>for personal use, loading this to MySQL DataBase for later study on
>trends, but I don't want to be doing this procedure manually every
>day.
>
>But this routine just gives me an error, please try it 
>and see whats wrong?, I have not found what am I missing.
>
>When I try the address genereated by the code directly on the
>iExplorer.EXE, it works... but not on Python...
>
>This is the routine:
>--------------------
>import os
>import urllib
>
>params={}
>params["pagina"] = 1
>params["Presentacion"] = "Tabla"
>params["Tipo"] = "CASAS"
>params["Order"] = "Order By Fecha Desc"
                   "order by colonia" if you want to duplicate the address below [1]
>params["id_inmueble"] = "3"
>params["zona"] = "0"
>params["COLONIA"] = "0"
>params["RECAMARAS"] = "0"
>params["BANOS"] = "0"
>params["dia"] = 	''
>params["PLANTAS"] = "0"
>params["Constr_i"] = "-1"
>params["constr_f"] = "-1"
>params["Terreno_i"] = "-1"
>params["Terreno_f"] = "-1"
>params["Precio_i"] = "-1"
>params["Precio_f"] = "-1"
>params["fotos"] = "0"
>
># This is the address calculated
>#http://avisos.elnorte.com/casa_venta_result.asp?fotos=0&Order=order+by+colonia&Precio_i=-1&Presentacion=Tabla&Precio_f=-1&PLANTAS=0&pagina=1&id_inmueble=3&dia=&RECAMARAS=0&constr_f=-1&COLONIA=0&BANOS=0&Tipo=CASAS&Constr_i=-1&Terreno_i=-1&Terreno_f=-1&zona=0
  ^...[1]
>
That is not the address calculated. The difference (other than upper case HTTP://AVISOS.ELNORTE.COM) is
Order=order+by+colonia
Order=Order+By+Fecha+Desc


>pms=urllib.urlencode(params)
>direccion="HTTP://AVISOS.ELNORTE.COM/casa_venta_result.asp?%s"%pms
>#print direccion
>f=urllib.urlopen(direccion)
>
>ff=open('xc.htm','w')
>ff.write('<strong>'+direccion+'<\br>')
                               ^^^^^^^  '</strong>' ??

>ff.write(f.read())
>ff.close
>
I think you may need a
 del ff
after
 ff.close
to let go of xc.htm so start can use it, though I think that's a bad idea.

In general this would be dangerous, since it will make the browser
think the page is safe (to it, it's coming from your disk this way).

>os.system('start xc.htm')
Better to look at it with a non-html-executing editor, e.g.,
 os.system('start write xc.htm')

I haven't a clue as to what parameter formats are for that site, but it returns
------<snip>---------
 <font face="Arial" size=2>
<p>Microsoft VBScript runtime </font> <font face="Arial" size=2>error '800a000d'</font>
<p>
<font face="Arial" size=2>Type mismatch: '[string: &quot;&quot;]'</font>
<p>
<font face="Arial" size=2>/barra.asp</font><font face="Arial" size=2>, line 87</font> 
------<snip>---------

And when I paste your original address line into IE5, it also returns
------<snip>---------
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d' 

Type mismatch: '[string: ""]' 

/barra.asp, line 87 
------<snip>---------

So maybe the site has a problem, or some parameter is the wrong format. I can't help you there,
unless you have a definition of the format. An exact copy of an URL that works from the browser
would help. The one in the comment is not it.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Fri Mar 22 06:02:02 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 11:02:02 GMT
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016724875.29984.python-list@python.org> <a7dmuk$21j0$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <a7f2va$2hut$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <a7dmuk$21j0$1 at news.idiom.com>, Jim Dennis wrote:
>In article <mailman.1016724875.29984.python-list at python.org>, 
	Nick Arnett wrote:

>>>  I don't know what you're really trying to do, but I decided to 
>>>  code up a quickie "word counter" for the hell of it.

>>Wow -- thanks.  I'm going to ask questions more often now!
>>Nick

> I deliberately made it a class so you could instantiate 
> multiple word counts on different blocks of text to compare them
> or whatever, and so you could import it into other programs and
> use other methods (i.e. a web spider with urllib and a "text" extractor
> with htmllib) to get your text.

 So, in my ongoing effort to bolster my Python programming
 skills, I decided to add PostgreSQL support to my word frequency
 counter. 

 This is my first bit of SQL RDBMS programming.  In this case 
 it was pretty simple (the hardest part was convincing Debian to
 re-install postgresql cleanly in my user chroot jail, that's a 
 wrinkle that need not be elaborated upon here).

 I only had to add five lines of code (including the import directive)
 to make this dump the words and word frequencies into a database table.
 (The import is the first line in "__main__" and the the work is all
 in the last four lines.  A comment shows the DML to create the 
 table).

 (I also had to re-write a few lines where I was flagging the "known
 words" in my output).  However, my approach is pretty crude; I 
 should be querying the db to update words that are already in the 
 table, and only inserting new rows for new words.  Maybe I'll do that
 for version 0.3


 Here's the updated version:


#!/usr/bin/env python2.2
""" Word Frequency Counter """
import sys, string

author="James T. Dennis <jimd at starshine.org>"
version="0.2"
changelog="""
	Fri Mar 22 02:52:28 PST 2002
		added support for dumping results into database
		"""
bugs="""
	Will create duplicate words in the table, 
	I should query the list into a dictionary, 

class Wordcount:
	"""Keep a count of all unique "words" in text
	   Maintain a dictionary or words, each with a 
	   count of the number of occurences, 
	   Add arbitrary text to it, return the dictionary on demand
	   Generator for most/least frequent words
	   ??? Options for allowed charset, and case sensitivity ???"""
	# for words like isn't and O'Holloran and fiddle-faddle
	# what should we do about contractions?
	# ditto possessive forms?
	tr = string.maketrans('','')
	rm = string.punctuation + string.digits
	rm = string.translate(rm, tr, "'-")  
		# Don't remove apostrophes and hypens from "words"
	knownWords = {}
	knownWordsRead = 0
	
	def __init__(self):
		self.words = {}
		self.count = 0  # total words processed
		self.nword = 0  # number of words in our instance dictionary
		self.known = 0  # number of our words found in the class dict.
		# Each instance gets its own word list and total count
		if not Wordcount.knownWordsRead:
			# We'll try to create the "known words" dictionary
			# But we only do that on first instantiation 
			# since all instances share this one dictionary
			try:
				Wordcount.knownWordsRead = 1
				wlist = open('/usr/share/dict/words','r')
				for i in wlist:
					i = i.lower().strip()
					if not i in Wordcount.knownWords:
						Wordcount.knownWords[i] = 0
			except: pass
			# but we won't try very hard
				# print "debug: ", word 
	def add (self,text):
		for each in text.split():
			word = string.translate(each, Wordcount.tr, Wordcount.rm).lower()
			word = word.strip()
			while word.endswith("'"):   word = word[:-1] # strip quotes
			while word.startswith("'"): word = word[1:]  #
			if word.startswith('-'): continue 
			if word.endswith('-'): continue 
			if word.endswith("n't"): word = word[:-3] # can't include these
			if word.endswith("'ll"): word = word[:-3] # or you'll wonder
			if word.endswith("'s"):  word = word[:-2] # who's
			if word == '-' or word == "'" or len(word) < 1 : continue 
			self.count += 1
			if not word in self.words:
				self.words[word] = 1
				self.nword += 1
			else:
				self.words[word] += 1
			if word in Wordcount.knownWords: self.known += 1
	def dump (self):
		self.items = [ (y,x) for x,y in self.words.items() ] 
		self.items.sort()
		self.items.reverse()
		return self.items
			
		
if __name__ == '__main__':
	import psycopg
	wcount = Wordcount()
	for i in sys.argv[1:]:
		file = open(i,"r")
		for line in file:
			wcount.add(line)
			# handle hyphenation?
			## poss. by cutting last word IFF ends in hyphen
			## and prepending to next line.
	print wcount.count, wcount.known, wcount.nword, \
		wcount.known/float(wcount.count), wcount.nword/float(wcount.known)
	l = []
	for count, word in wcount.dump():
		if count > 1:		# Skip "unique" words
			if word in Wordcount.knownWords: 
				f = '*'
				t = (word,count,'true')
			else:
				f = ''
				t = (word,count,'false')
			l.append(t)
			print "%7d %s%s" % (count, word, f)
	print wcount.count, wcount.known, wcount.nword, \
		wcount.known/float(wcount.count), wcount.nword/float(wcount.known)

	### Dump into database:
	db = psycopg.connect('dbname=test user=jimd')
	## db.execute('''CREATE TABLE word_frequencies 
	##    (word text, count integer, known boolean'''')
	cursor = db.cursor()
	cursor.executemany("insert into word_frequencies values (%s, %d, %s);", 
		l )
	db.commit()

 
 One thing confuses me a bit.  I'd always heard that database
 cursors are an extemely limited resource and that the use of them
 is best avoided, yet the DB-API docs(*) seem to suggest that you 
 usually use cursors with Python db connections but that one could
 do .execute() function on db connection *WITHOUT* the cursor.

 """
 Next, you should create a cursor object. A cursor object acts as a
 handle for a given SQL query; it allows retrieval of one or
 more rows of the result, until all the matching rows have been
 processed. For simple applications that do not need more than
 one query at a time, it's not necessary to use a cursor object since
 database objects support all the same methods as cursor
 objects. We'll deliberately use cursor objects in the following
 example. (For more on beginning SQL, see At The Forge by
 Reuven Lerner in LJ, Octoboer, 1997.)
 """
 	* ( http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/DB-API.html )

 Yet, I can't seem to find those in psycopg.  Is psycopg DB-API 2
 compliant?  Is this feature there?  Or does DB-API not require
 this feature?




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 13:13:14 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:13:14 -0500
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com>

holger at trillke.net wrote:
> 
> > >how could you stop a running threading.Thread from the *outside*? of
> > >course i could introduce some kind of flag into the event loop of the
> > >Thread.run-method, but i really would prefer to have a non-instrusive
> > >way for several reasons.
> > >
> > >Any way to do this?
> >
> > Not really.  Why do you want to do it?
> 
> You really want to know it? I am currently working
> on (coded) agents which move through the network.

"The network"?  Which one?  The Internet, or an internal
network over which you have full control?  Who controls
the servers on which these agents will be running?

> But of course i'd sometimes like to shut down some or
> all agent-threads. 

Run them in a separate process and kill the process when
it's "sometime"?  If you can live without individual
control.  Maybe you can identify groups of them?

> Is the questions actually strange in any way? Like something
> you wouldn't usually like to do?

Yes, that's the case.  It's generally considered to lead to
undefined behaviour if you do manage to kill a thread from 
the outside, because of resource locking issues and such.

Maybe you can get by with Stackless Python?  The microthreads
provided there ought to be more easily killable, though 
I haven't tried it myself.

-Peter


From graz at mindless.com  Fri Mar 15 16:20:28 2002
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:20:28 +0000
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:49:09 +0000, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>>>>>> "Joe" == Joe Grossberg <josephgrossberg at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Joe> Is there any effective difference between the two?
> 
> Nope.

I read somewhere (don't ask me where) that != is preferred.

-- 
Graham


From arturs at iidea.pl  Wed Mar  6 06:28:06 2002
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:28:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8bvm5.emm.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

Steven D. Arnold wrote:
> Neosynapse has released istring 1.0.1, a module for interpolating
> strings in Python.  String interpolation means you can put variables
> directly in strings, like this:
> 
>>>> from neo.istring import istring as i
>>>> n = 100
>>>> s = i("Value is $n")
>>>> s
> "Value is 100"

Seems a nice feature - maybe you can consider fighting for inclusion
in standard Python distribution?

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org


From ponderor at lycos.com  Mon Mar  4 15:06:11 2002
From: ponderor at lycos.com (Dean Goodmanson)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 12:06:11 -0800
Subject: Time to rename Stackless?
References: <mailman.1014800988.1436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e81be8b2.0203041206.209ba81a@posting.google.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1014800988.1436.python-list at python.org>...
> [Christian]
> > Not bad!
> > Should I start a contest?
> 
> I vote for "Christian Python".  


"CrisPy" sounds good to me..   
..could you get Forrest Gump to to the pronounciation sound file?

-Dean


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 20 18:17:51 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:17:51 GMT
Subject: How to delete/mainpulate global variables ??
References: <mailman.1016653600.19685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zM8m8.27460$e33.18232@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

If the statement 'del val' isn't doing what you need, store the variable in a global list or dictionary.  That way all references will point to the same underlying object.  A modification in one place will show up everywhere.

-- 
-

  "Berenike Loos" <berenikeloos at gmx.de> wrote in message news:mailman.1016653600.19685.python-list at python.org...
  Hi

  I am using two function in my program. The first one reads out some text of an TK entry field and puts it into a global variable.

  The other function has to read out the global variable and has to print out the text. Now the global variable should be deleted, so if I call the second function again without calling the first, NO text will be displayed.

  thx a lot 
-------------- next part --------------
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From janez.jere at void.si  Mon Mar 11 17:41:24 2002
From: janez.jere at void.si (Janez Jere)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:41:24 +0100
Subject: Zope stdin
References: <3C8BECF0.30207@void.si> <kkSi8.96385$V15.14380856@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <llbp8ug5u7kpo2q7f672hnpsdjo9dbae9o@4ax.com> <mailman.1015870530.2000.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8D3294.704@void.si>

> 
> Why can you not do this in Zope as Python Script, External Method or even 
> DTML?  The Zope mailing lists are normally a good place for answers BTW.

I dont know how to write it in python script, I waste a lot of time 
without any progress, ok i learned something about security model, get 
familiar with some Zope source code. Then I gave up and wrote it with 
mod_python in a hour. I know that mod_python is not an app server, so I 
will have to join yet-another-mailing list, but I am not sure that this 
is posible with zope.

Thanks, jj



From cbbrowne at acm.org  Sun Mar 10 19:21:08 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:21:08 -0500
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com> <slrna8nhe5.7t7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3y9h0x8cr.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com>

In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) transmitted:
> On 10 Mar 2002 10:15:06 -0800, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
>>phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:57:42 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I agree with much of what you say, especially the "consider skipping
>>>>C++ and just learn C part", but _what_ pragmatic point of view is it
>>>>that has one learning Perl, Java, or C++ when one uses Python already?
>>>>Not dissing those languages, but when would you really need them?
>>>
>>>I can think of several tasks for which C++ is better than Python, 
>>>e.g. writing operating systems, network stacks, windowing systems, 
>>>run-time interpreters, crypto algorithms, etc.
>>
>>But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
>>than C/Python?
>
> Any task for whiich OO is useful, which means essentially all
> programs >5000 lines (and most smaller ones), will benefit from C++
> over C.

Would that include the implementation of runtime code for an
at-the-bare-iron OS kernel to support:
 a) vtables, and
 b) memory management?

Remember, when you're sitting at that level, you have no runtime
support code, and so can make no use of:
 - Virtual functions
 - Constructors
 - Destructors

I would tend to think that figuring out the usable subset of C++ would
become painful enough to discourage its use.

And this seems to be a factor strongly correlated with the relative
rarity of OS kernels written in C++ as compared to C, in which there
is little in the _language_ that requires runtime support...
-- 
(reverse (concatenate 'string "ac.notelrac.teneerf@" "454aa"))
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/advocacy.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord  #150. "I will provide funding and research
to develop  tactical and  strategic weapons covering  a full  range of
needs  so my  choices are  not limited  to "hand  to hand  combat with
swords" and "blow up the planet"." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>


From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 07:08:34 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:08:34 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEBJDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com> <mailman.1015998142.11297.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <19gu8u499o38h8kvegufd7tcupjni0pucb@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:36:05 -0600, "Jason Orendorff"
<jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:

>I benchmarked it; results:
>
>  plain Python: 8.557 sec
>  optimized Python: 2.325 sec
>  Numeric Python: 0.753 sec

That looks really promising!

Thanks & Regards,

Martin


From store_li at sina.com  Mon Mar  4 10:38:38 2002
From: store_li at sina.com (Ricky)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:38:38 +0800
Subject: Is there any wxPython turtor?
Message-ID: <a604fb$a6tuc$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>

I have downloaded wxPython 2.3. But, I found that the document come with it
is not well enough. Is there any recommended good tutor of wxPython itself??

BTW: I don't know why I can't connect to www.wxpython.org, is it still
alive?




From kragen at pobox.com  Thu Mar 21 02:56:53 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 02:56:53 -0500
Subject: For loops with explicit indices -- again
References: <3c9789ed$0$29676$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <833cyucq0q.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"Armin Rigo" <arigo at ulb.ac.be> writes:
> For example, to decrement all positive integers in a list, modifying
> it in-place:
> 
>     it = iter(lst)
>     for x in it:
>         if x>0:
>             lst[it.count-1] -= 1

I wish people would stop asking for requirements to be added to the
iterator protocol.  I think there are good reasons for compliance with
it to be trivially easy.

Maybe we should start asking for features to be added to variables
instead.  With my tongue firmly in my cheek, I propose the following
new language constructs:

onchange expr: suite --- runs suite whenever the location (variable,
mapping item, sequence item, attribute, whatever) named by 'expr'
changes, like Tcl's variable traces; requires user-implemented
containers to call the new itemchanged(self, itemname) function
whenever an item changes; requires __setattr__ implementations to call
the new attrchanged(self, attrname) function whenever they deem that
an attribute has changed.  Under the covers, this is implemented in
terms of new onitemchange(container, name, thunk) and
onattrchange(object, name, thunk) functions.

onrefcountchange expr: suite --- likewise, but runs suite whenever the
reference count of the value 'expr' presently evaluates to changes.

whentrue expr: suite --- uses the onchange machinery to arrange for
'suite' to be run as soon as 'expr' becomes true (by testing 'expr'
and establishing onchange handlers for every elementary subexpression
of it; obviously this won't work if non-functional functions are
involved)

number_of_times_written(expr) --- looks like a function, but "expr" is
a generalized location, just like the arguments to 'del' or the left
operand of '='.  Returns the number of times the location named by the
expression has changed.

number_of_times_read(expr) --- likewise.

previous_values_of(expr) --- returns a list of all previous values
that had been stored in the location named by 'expr'.

number_of_bytecodes_run_since_last_change(expr) --- self-explanatory.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 14:56:05 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:56:05 -0800
Subject: Replacing excel: but with what ?
References: <3C9CCF6C.F1099089@vip.fi> <ofup9uk4im0vdn12jiuq9mblnatir132cr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F80D4.3D37A117@ccvcorp.com>


Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:

> I would still recommend wxPython. It is a top bit of software.
>
> Get youself on the mailing list and if you experience problems I am
> confident that it will get sorted there.

I agree.  I haven't used wxGrid myself, but judging from what I've seen
on the mailing list, they are both very powerful, and sometimes tricky
to get right.  The wxpython-users list is very helpful, however.  If
you post any problems you're having there, you'll probably get a useful
reply very quickly.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From grante at visi.com  Fri Mar  8 14:15:48 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:15:48 GMT
Subject: Turn string into function call
References: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <E58i8.17062$N7.3653694@ruti.visi.com>

In article <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec at posting.google.com>, N Becker wrote:

> What's the best way to turn a string naming a function into a function call?
> 
> I used this:
> eval (funcname + '()')

This really ought to go into the FAQ.  It's been asked (and
answered) at least 3 times in the past week or so.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow!! That's a GOOD
                                  at               IDEA!! Eating a whole FIELD
                               visi.com            of COUGH MEDICINE should
                                                   make you feel MUCH BETTER!!


From christophertavares at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 18 17:51:05 2002
From: christophertavares at earthlink.net (Chris Tavares)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:51:05 GMT
Subject: Problems embedding with win2k
References: <3a7925ca.0203181215.626e8ea3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tbul8.31151$Vx1.2577095@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Mark" <mrussell8081 at pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3a7925ca.0203181215.626e8ea3 at posting.google.com...
> I need to embed a python interpreter in C++ applications in both Win2K
> and Linux environments.  I have started to work the embedding examples
> and have run into problems on the windows side, here is my setup and
> problem:
>
> Environment:
>
> Win2K Pro, VC6 SP4
>
> Problem 1-Very High Level Embedding Example:  Access violation in
> msvcrtd in debug mode
> I work the first example from the Python docs-extending and embedding
> sec 5.1.  When I build this in release mode the application runs fine.
>  When I compile and run in Debug mode I get an access violation in
> msvcrtd.dll.  When the program is run the following two asserts fail:
>
> Dbgheap.c line: 1044
> _CrtIsValidHeadPointer(pUserData)
> Dbgheap.c line: 1050
> _BLOCK_TYPE_IS_VALID(pHead->nBlockUse)
>
> When I look back through the trace, this error occurs when in
> Py_Initialize() when the site module is being imported.  I am using
> the debug multithreaded dll runtime for debug and the multithreaded
> dll runtime for release.  I am sure I must have a project setting
> wrong but I can't figure out exactly what.
>

This is most likely a symptom of mismatched debug vs. release libraries. Is
the *python* dll you're using compiled for debug mode? If it's not, that
would explain the access violations.

You'll need to grab the python source tree and compile a debug version on
your win32 box.

-Chris





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 09:05:30 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:05:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91D78E14C54DBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote in 
news:7xk7s7mpiy.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com:

> Geez, I find all this pseudo-HTML horrendous.  Why not just embed
> normal looking code in <?  ?> tags the way PHP does it?  Do WYSIWYG
> editors have a problem with that?  If worse comes to worse, embed
> the Python code with the kinds of tags used for Javascript.  The
> WYSIWYG editors should be used to Javascript by now.

I think you are missing the point. With <? ?> or javascript, the remaining 
HTML in the file very often isn't valid HTML. In particular you very often 
get situations where the opening and closing tags don't match. Consider 
with your scheme how you might alter the attributes on the <body> tag while 
leaving exactly one body tag visible for the wysiwyg editor?

ZPT makes this easy provided (and it is a big provided) the wysiwyg editor 
both preserves and ignores unknown attributes.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From joonas at olen.to  Sun Mar 17 15:44:02 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:44:02 +0200
Subject: a text processing problem: are regexpressions necessary?
References: <b03e80d.0203170529.6ac58327@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C950012.514470DC@olen.to>

Sandy Norton wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I thought I'd share this problem which has just confronted me.
> 
> The problem
> 
> An automatic way to tranform urls to articles on various news sites to
> their printerfriendly counterparts is complicated by the fact that
> different sites have different schemes for doing this. (see examples
> below)
> 
> Now given two examples for each site: a regular link to an article and
> its printer-friendly counterpart, is there a way to automatically
> generate transformation code that is specific to each site, but which
> generalizes across all article urls within that site?
> 
> Here are a few examples from several online publications:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/africa/newsid_1871000/1871611.stm
> 
> http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1043688
> http://www.economist.com/agenda/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=1043688
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuru031502.shtml
> http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuruprint031502.html
> 
> http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said
> http://www.thenation.com/docPrint.mhtml?i=20020204&s=said
> 
> I'm kinda heading in the direction of attempting to generate regular
> expressions for each site... But I'm a bit apprehensive about doing
> this. Is there a more pythonic way to approach this problem?

I would create a dictionary where beginnings of the urls would be keys.
Values of the dictionary would be tuples that contain a sting to be
replaced and the replacement.

replDict = {"http://www.economist.com/agenda/":
("displayStory", "PrinterFriendly.cfm"), "http://www.thenation.com":
("doc.mhtml", "docPrint.mhtml")}

Then check what key matches the url and do the replacing with
string.replace.


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 24 07:06:04 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:06:04 GMT
Subject: module is in the folder - what am i doing wrong??
References: <T1fn8.5030$EE4.17777@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3C9D975B.40600@SPAMnwinternet.com> <bajn8.5630$EE4.21273@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Mijn8.5650$EE4.20542@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Also forgot to mention,

in the python interpreter i performed the following commands

Python 2.1.2 (#2, Jan 18 2002, 11:23:35)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> modname = "xml"
>>> mod = __import__(modname)
>>> mod
<module 'xml' from 'xml.py'>
>>>

which shows, the module does exist and accessible from the interpreter.. but
why when i run my code, it doesnt work??

hope someone knows :( im getting sad..

cheers
trungie

"Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message
news:bajn8.5630$EE4.21273 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Thanks for your reply Jim,
>
> i have a file "xml.py" and it has a function named "getProjects()" and i
> simply wish to access it from c. i have the source....
>
> #include <Py/Python.h>
>
> int main (int argc, char *argv[]) {
>         // declare variables
>         PyObject *modname = NULL;
>         PyObject *mod = NULL;
>
>         // init
>         Py_Initialize();
>
>         modname = PyString_FromString("xml");
>         mod = PyImport_Import(modname);
>         if (mod == NULL) printf("mod is null\n");
>
>         Py_XDECREF(mod);
>         Py_XDECREF(modname);
>         Py_Exit(0);
> }
>
> but when i try to run it, it prints "mod is null", meaning it cant find
the
> module. but the module is named "xml.py" and is in the current folder!!
what
> am i doing wrong???
>
> i dont see why it is so hard. it's just that ive fallen in a small hole
> (idom).. just one of those things when you learn a new language... i just
> need a little help. im sure someone knows :(
>
> ive thought of using exec, but this way is far more elegant.. so i've
read.
> but not proven.
>
> Please HELP!
> Cheers
> Trung Hoang
> Final year Undergraduate of Computer Science and Technology
> University of Sydney, Australia.
>
>




From holger at trillke.net  Mon Mar 25 06:18:37 2002
From: holger at trillke.net (holger at trillke.net)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:18:37 +0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
In-Reply-To: <3C9E7326.C3FD53DF@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 07:45:26PM -0500
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017002737.5697.python-list@python.org> <3C9E53D8.4FA20F3D@engcorp.com> <mailman.1017012639.11096.python-list@python.org> <3C9E7326.C3FD53DF@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020325121837.J12768@prim.han.de>

> Your "agents" sound a lot more like they are just threads,
> but maybe I don't see the distinction.  From the above 
> description, I think you'll have other problems on your hands
> than just terminating the threads.  You've got what appears
> to be a very highly coupled system (...)

In this case, yes. The point is that my agents don't need
to behave to any framework. The only change in programming 
paradigms should be that you have to really think your
Classes/Objects as "self-responsible". They can use the protocol
of their choice (i provide a very simple one) to transfer themselves
to other systems. Or someone else transfers them with a specific protocol.

The Agent "servers" don't do much on themselves
but instead leave it to agents to provide "framework" and protocol
capabilities. So to decouple the agents i would probably
introduce a "RelationShip"-Agent managing couplings between
them.

In the mentioned case the agents work
as threads because that makes sense for their task. There 
are also some "passive" agents which don't "live" on their own (thread).
For example the "Config-Agent" or the "scanning directories"
agent :-) These are quite similar to "modules".

> The approach I suggested in my other reply would still work
> nicely if you can ensure the threads call through an intermediary
> instead of directly into each other.  You might also try 
> a low-performance hack until you have time to implement the
> modification in the interpreter :-), which would be to
> stick a flag check into a routine inserted with sys.settrace().
> Have that routine raise the exception if the flag is set for
> the current thread...

interesting suggestion! Doesn't this cause a lot of overhead unless
done in C?  (checking for thread_id and if there is a flag set for it
for each python-instruction)

thanks again,

	holger



From emile at fenx.com  Tue Mar  5 21:53:29 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:53:29 -0800
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
References: <vcfh8.405$tL.70@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <a640m8$bk78s$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"logistix" <logstx at bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:vcfh8.405$tL.70 at nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> Is the following code operating this way by design or is it just
> implementation?  It seems to indicate that the nested function is
redefined
> each time the parent function is called.  Is this necessary or
desirable?
>

It is both.  In particular, if the outer function builds and returns a
curried function, you likely want it redefined each time the outer
function is called.


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 21 22:55:08 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 22 Mar 2002 03:55:08 GMT
Subject: How Can I Determine the Operating System with Python?
References: <mailman.1016713720.31917.python-list@python.org> <Xns91D895B49DD95seed7@news.rdc1.ov.home.nl> <u9l7h5s6jljpd6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9m6sv.4s.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

In article <u9l7h5s6jljpd6 at corp.supernews.com>, hdiwan420 at speakeasy.net wrote:
> ingo <ingoogni at home.nl> writes:
>> >>> os.environ['OS']
>>'Windows_NT'
> If you have nmap or queso installed, you can always do:
> % sudo nmap -v -v -v -sS -O localhost
> or 
> % sudo queso localhost

I take it that wasn't meant seriously.

> Ok, so it's not exact, but it's just as good as any other way and both exist
> on Windows and Unix.

The probability of queso or nmap, let alone sudo being installed on Windows is
probably of about the same order of magnitued as that the newsreader I'm
currently using on win32 (slrn) is installed there.

And nmap isn't a standard Unix tool either. On Unix, the only thing you can
depend on is the presence of "uname", which exactly the right tool for the
task. Only I don't know of an "uname" equivalent for Windows or Mac.

Besides, "nmap -O" (I take it queso is just an alias for that), gives this on
my FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE:

...
No exact OS matches for host (If you know what OS is running on it, see
http://www.insecure.org/cgi-bin/nmap-submit.cgi).
...

which I of course did.

Gerhard


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar 13 20:17:48 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:17:48 +0900
Subject: [OT] Making the move (to Linux/*BSD/real OS)
References: <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06@posting.google.com> <OfZi8.5$ID.116@news.hananet.net> <b03e80d.0203110733.31e48030@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XGSj8.258$ID.1154@news.hananet.net>

Sandy Norton wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote
>> If you want to customize your mail client, you're using the wrong OS. All
>> the customizability is over here in Linux, with procmail and sendmail and
>> fetchmail and all sorts of great stuff that you've never even dreamed of
>> - even in those really wild dreams where you use your computer for a
>> month and it doesn't crash once.
> 
> Your point is well taken. Actually, I've had the move in mind for some
> time, and am hoping to ease the transition by getting used to the
> cygwin environment, and using cross platform tools as often as I can.
> However, I don't think I'm quite ready yet, and if I do make the move
> I don't know whether it will be to linux or to Mac OS X.
> 

There was a challenge posted by a journalist (not a programmer) who uses 
Linux quite readily for all his journalistic needs. He said something like 
"Try it out for 2 weeks, and by the end of the 2 weeks, you won't be able 
to go back."

After all, it is habits you are going to change, and those habits have to 
be broken the hard way. I don't suggest Mac OSX because it is still not 
really in-your-face unix. Cygwin is great, but it is mostly a crutch for 
those who already use Unix systems, but are forced to work on a windows 
box. You won't really be exposed to the power of Unix until you learn all 
the simple commands that you normally do with Explorer and other tools.

I wish you luck in the switch. I switched by wiping windows from my home 
computer and trying to get Red Hat installed. It wasn't pretty, and I 
didn't have a LUG to help me out. But thanks to Linuxdoc and google, I got 
thing working. 

Eventually, I felt so restricted in windows at work, that I convinced my 
boss to get me another box to put Linux on. It only cost a couple of 
hundred dollars, and since we were using Linux for our servers, it really 
made me much more productive.

BTW, the bane of non-MS users is the doc format. It drives me nuts that 
people think it is portable. That and newer Adobe PDF files. And HTML mail. 
Oh well... =(

Jonathan





From mkingston at -at-shaw.ca  Thu Mar  7 01:49:13 2002
From: mkingston at -at-shaw.ca (Mark Kingston)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:49:13 GMT
Subject: Python on W2K server and dos batch files?
References: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net> <899f842.0203062032.75b219a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <J3Eh8.87834$kb.5458763@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>

Thanks Anthony.  I downloaded the ActiveState and it has very good
documentation.  Can you please tell me what TK is?

I would definitely like to rewrite those dos batch files in Python.

Also, yes, please send me some sample scripts as I have only programmed in
Object Pascal and VB.  Python seems more C like but I like what I've seen so
far.

Thanks again.

--
Mark.
mkingston at -at-shaw.ca
Please remove '-at-' from email if replying directly to me.


"Anthony_Barker" <anthony_barker at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:899f842.0203062032.75b219a7 at posting.google.com...
> "Mark Kingston" <mkingston at -at-shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:<3c866f0c$1_2 at axion.net>...
> > Hello Experts,
> >
> > I've been looking into the possibility of using Python as a scripting
> > language for use on our Windows 2000 Server with Terminal Services and
> > Citrix Metaframe XPa.  The reason I'm looking into a scripting language
> > instead of a compiled program is that I need to add new functionality to
the
> > programs often.  The scripting program will also serve as a "launch pad"
for
> > other DOS batch files and compiled console applications.
>
> Works fine - I wrote some scripts to monitoring some servers at a
> Canadian Bank.I recommend the ActiveState distro as you will be using
> windows, I found it includes more 'extras'... Also checkout their
> website for some sample scripts.
>
>
> > 1. Create a GUI (wxPython?) which will be used for server administration
> > purposes such as automatically displaying a list of NT users on a form
and
> > allowing the user to select which user to enable or disable.
> TK may be better for a quick gui. You can access the NT directory via
> COM or do   LDAP lookups.
>
> > 2. Create a GUI which will allow a user to launch other scripts such as
DOS
> > batch files, Windows programs and console programs.
>
> No problem... But you may end up wanting to rewrite the batch files in
> python as it is more flexible. I can send you some example scripts if
> need be. Use windows 'Pipes'.
>
>
> > 3. The GUI should also be able to capture the output of console programs
and
> > display it on it's own text box or panel.
> fine
>
> > 4. Perform advanced text file manipulation.
> Excellent




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Mar 13 11:17:51 2002
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:17:51 +0100
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

> for index in range(len(mylist)):
>     <whatever>

several solutions:

# if whatever contains only refs to mylist [index]
for element in mylist:
    <whatever>

# if you really need the index
def listIndices (list):
    return range (len (list))

for index in listIndices (mylist):
    <whatever>

# my favourite
class IndexAndElement:
    def __init__ (self, list):
        self.list = list

    def __getitem__ (self, index):
        return (index, self.list [index])

for index, element in IndexAndElement (mylist):
    <whatever>

There's more than one way to heal a wart.

Daniel





From geoff at gerrietts.net  Sun Mar 10 18:07:01 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:07:01 -0800
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
In-Reply-To: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com>
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <20020310230701.GM8360@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Erik de Castro Lopo (nospam at mega-nerd.com):
> Just recently I prototyped a relatively complex algorithm in Python
> before converting it to C. During this conversion I noticed that
> the modulo operator returns different results in C and Python if
> the numerator is negative. For positive values they produce the same 
> result.

I ran into this very same thing the other day. I was setting my
expectations of how a C expression would evaluate by testing it in the
python shell, only to discover that it evaluated quite differently.

I don't think it bothered me. Just surprised me. Turns out what I
really wanted was the Python answer anyway. I'm not sure the answer I
got in C is actually the modulo, if I understand the mathematical
concept "modulo" properly.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "I am always doing that which I can not do, 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     in order that I may learn how to do it." 
http://www.gerrietts.net                    --Pablo Picasso



From p.magwene at snet.net  Sun Mar 24 09:11:19 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:11:19 GMT
Subject: Need help with plotting
References: <3c9cd61e.8124286@news>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.24.09.11.19.385086.73856@snet.net>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:24:32 -0500, brobbins333 wrote:

> I'm new to Python and doing pretty well with it so far. One thing that
> has me stumped is finding an "easy" way, or any way, for that matter, to
> plot simple graphs. I haven't gotten into Tkinter yet and I'm not sure
> if there is another way to make plots. I have scipy and Numeric and I
> can see that there are graphing modules there but I have not been able
> to access them with something like: from scipy import *. This always
> fails with "not there" or "can't import."
> 
> I've tried to do my homework on this but can't find anything that works
> for me. Can anybody point me in the right direction?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bruce Robbins

Depending on your needs you might want to try disipyl - a Python interface
to the DISLIN plotting library, available here:

http://pantheon.yale.edu/~pmm34/disipyl.html

Cheers,
Paul


From kragen at pobox.com  Mon Mar 25 04:36:26 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 04:36:26 -0500
Subject: using os.execl to call a java application
References: <3C9D66E9.4070802@northwestern.edu>
Message-ID: <83663l56qt.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

Louis Luangkesorn <lluang at northwestern.edu> writes:
>   File "C:\docs\gmcode\prob4.py", line 74, in findrqsim
>     os.path('c:\\docs\\ibmmodelswitch')
> TypeError: object of type 'module' is not callable

os.path is a module.  I think you meant os.chdir, not os.path.

You should consider writing your paths as 'c:/docs/ibmmodelswitch' so
you don't have to double backslash.



From amuys at shortech.com.au  Sun Mar  3 20:56:49 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 17:56:49 -0800
Subject: Stedents Question
References: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au> <3c811073@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203031756.4a11d7b2@posting.google.com>

Michael Janssen <Janssen at rz.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote in message news:<3c811073 at nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>...
> Tony K wrote:
> 
> > The question below is a tutorial question that stumps me.  Any suggestions
> > would be appreciated.
> > Tony
> > 
> > Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as parameter
> > and returns all substrings thereof which match the regexp pattern ab+c.
> > You are NOT allowed to use the re module.
> 
> def findABBC(str):
>     a=0 
>     b=0
>     while str:
>         for n in str:
>             if n=="a":
>                 a=1
>                 break
>             if  a==1 and n=="b":
>                 b=b+1
>                 break
>             if a==1 and n=="c":
>                 print "a"+"b"*b+"c"
>                 a, b = 0, 0
>                 break
>             if n!=[a-c]:
>                 a, b = 0, 0
>                 break
>         str=str[1:]
> 
> produces every ab+c-string in str. But there must be something easier. 
> Something smaller ;-)
> 

Probably, but given that this is someones homework we probably
shouldn't discuss this until next week (presumably after the
tutorial's due).

Andrae


From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 17:13:40 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:13:40 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:32:03 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
wrote:

>Martin Kaufmann <martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Now my questions: Would it be best to
>> 
>> (a) write the whole program in C/C++ (I know only the basics of C but
>> it would be a good "excuse" to learn it...)?
>
>Well, you're unlikely to get advised to do this here :)

You're probably right... Is there a group about general scientific
programming where I could get an unbiased answer? :-)

>> (b) write the main program in Python but the heavy calculations in C
>> (I played today with scipy.weave -- the speed is much better but I
>> didn't really understand what I was doing...)?
>
>This is probably the better option, but first...
>
>> (c) program it in Python and don't care about speed (or buy a new
>> workstation...)?
>
>... I'd do this.  Write your algorithm in Python.  Run it on small
>examples to test.  See if it's fast enough to run your real problems.
>If it's not, go for (b).  It may be possible that modules already
>exist to do the heavy lifting -- e.g. Numeric.  It's hard to say for
>certain without knowing more about your algorithms.

OK, I post a code snippet here. Comments are welcome -- there is
certainly a better solution. If somebody wants to see the whole code,
I can put it on a webpage. 

This is the first raw version without histograms. s_vector is an array
with all the scattering parameters, f_s_vector the respective
scattering factors, and r_vector an array with all the distances
between the atoms. The equation is the Debye equation, so no fancy
integrals...

    for s in s_vector[1:]:
        sum = 0
        for r in r_vector[1:]:
            x = 2 * pi * r * s
            sum = sum + (2 * (sin(x))/x)
        intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum / atoms)
        i_vector.append(intensity)
        n = n + 1

Now the histogram code where the radii are binned in the histogram
hist and only the bins with a value are used:

    for s in s_vector[1:]:
        sum = 0
        for entry in hist[1:]:
            if entry[1] == 0:
                continue
            x = 2 * pi * s * entry[0]
            sum = sum + (2 * entry[1] * (sin(x) / x))
       intensity = atoms * pow(f_s_vector[n], 2) * (1 + sum / atoms)
        i_vector.append(intensity)
        n = n + 1

The main difference here is that in the second solution I don't have
to calculate the sin term for every radius.

>Things like weave and PyInline may help.

Do you know a tutorial about weave or SWIG that is understandable
without much C knowledge?

>Maybe you could submit better code to the SciPy project?

Maybe I'm not exactly the right person... But I read last autumn a
long discussion about the merging of all the scientific libraries (the
Grand Unified Scientific Library GUSL...). What about the
implementation? 

Many Thanks,

Martin



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 08:21:53 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:21:53 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:23:44 +0000, Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:
>"Dean Goodmanson" <ponderor at lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>"The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
>>classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code -- not
>>in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death."  Guido van Rossum
>>
>
>I didn't see the original post but I *really* hope this was said in
>jest.

I would very much hope not.

And Guido's statement supports my suggestion that pass be made 
optional in Python. Consider, when someone is designing a class, 
one could write an outline like this:

class BaseClass:

class MyClass(BaseClass):
   def __init__(self):
   def method1(self, a, b, c):
   def method2(self, d, e):
   def method3(self, f):

It is perfectly clear what this means. But unfortunately, as Python
stands today, it is syntactically invalid, one would have to say:

class BaseClass:
   pass
 
class MyClass(BaseClass):
   def __init__(self):
      pass
   def method1(self, a, b, c):
      pass
   def method2(self, d, e):
      pass
   def method3(self, f): 
      pass

And then, when you begin to flesh out your code, you would have to 
get rid of the extraneous passes you didn't want to add (assuming 
you are like me) in the first place. So the with-pass version 
requires more effort, and is more verbose, for no good reason.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From JeffH at ActiveState.com  Mon Mar 25 18:20:20 2002
From: JeffH at ActiveState.com (Jeff Hobbs)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:20:20 -0800
Subject: Replacing excel: but with what ?
References: <3C9CCF6C.F1099089@vip.fi>
		<3C9CF7A6.51F112EC@olen.to> <mailman.1017090280.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9FB0B4.9B20C638@ActiveState.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:46:14 +0200
> Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> 
> > Does Tkinter meet your needs? You can create a spreadsheet by griddinng
> > Entry widgets. There is an example in Lutz's Programming Python 2'nd
> > Edition, if you happen to owe it.
> 
> Doing this was exactly what moved me to wxPython a couple of years ago.
> This approach will work, but it will be extremely slow for even a
> moderately large spreadsheet.  I even tried writing a spreadsheet widget
> from scratch using Tkinter and although it was much faster, it was still
> too slow (unfortunately I no longer have the code or I'd send it to you
> =P).  Something like this needs be written in a compiled language.

Missed the original post on this (shi!!y news server), but if you are
looking for a robust spreadsheet-like widget for Tkinter, you should
look at tktable:
	http://tktable.sourceforge.net/

It provides all sorts of fancy features, and definitely handles 100,000+
elements without sweating (I've run tests with 500,000 elements - it's
coded as a C widget extension to Tk).  It's not a "spreadsheet" per se,
but it does provide the basis for one.

It is written just as a Tcl/Tk extension though.  I got mail once from
someone that had used it with Tkinter, but I can't find that now.  From
what I understand of Tkinter, it should be pretty easy to use as it just
loads dynamically into Tk.  IOW, I don't know what the "out-of-box"
experience would be for a Tkinter user, but it is the table widget of
choice for Tk.

Tix is a set of widgets for Tk that does have a proper Tkinter port,
and also provides a "tixGrid" widget.  It doesn't have the features of
tktable, but if you are doing mostly read-only stuff, it may suffice.

-- 
  Jeff Hobbs                     The Tcl Guy
  Senior Developer               http://www.ActiveState.com/


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Mon Mar 25 07:38:44 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 12:38:44 GMT
Subject: [albatross-users] Re: Python embedded like PHP
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au> <1016822750.495.34.camel@localhost> <mailman.1016855556.16177.python-list@python.org> <Xns91DC65AB692BBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrna9u678.18c.gerhard@developer2.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <Xns91DC65AB692BBduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>, Duncan Booth wrote:
> Microsoft Frontpage

Ayee!!

> It would be nice though if the HTML editor could somehow be told to make the
> rest of the template readonly.

Dreamweaver can do that.

Gerhard


From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar  5 15:04:44 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:04:44 +0100
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <3C844811.AEC974E3@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3c8527d4$1_1@news.bluewin.ch>

Just another  contradictory *datapoint*
(I have personally lost the illusion to be
able to tell what is newbie friendly or not,
without field-experimentation)

Everything is an object is as much
a CS abstraction as functional programming
is a mixed CS/mathematics abstraction.

It is not totally clear to me whether when
they are pushed to the extreme they
are friendly. Are they?

Smalltalk try to deal with such
corners compesating
 vaguely mimicking english:

1 to: 20 do: [...].
10 timesRepeat: [...].

These forms in some sense (my
very personal impression)
try to hide that 1 is an object here,
not to underline that.

What about "for i in 10"
from this angle of view ?

regards, Samuele Pedroni.




From imcmeans at home.com  Sun Mar 17 00:46:11 2002
From: imcmeans at home.com (Ian McMeans)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:46:11 GMT
Subject: mixing regular expression
Message-ID: <D4Wk8.107090$eb.4892148@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

How should go I about nesting regular expressions in python?

I want one huge regular expression to be composed of a bunch of others - is
there some way I can include a regular expression inside another?

Or should I do it with strings - just save each regular expression's string,
and then compile each combination separately?

What I mean is this:
foo = re.compile("someregexcode")
bar = re.compile("moreregexcode")

big = re.compile("foo|bar")

is that possible at all? To combine regular expression objects? Or do you
suggest that I just make strings for foo and bar, and then compile the
combined strings into big?




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Tue Mar 26 15:50:14 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:50:14 +0200
Subject: Most efficient unzip - inverse of zip?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203262231570.27212-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

Hi,

What would be the most efficient way to unzip zipped sequences 
in Python 2.2?

For example, consider

 a_b = zip(a,b)  # where a and b are some sequences
 a_b.sort()
 a,b = unzip(a_b)

For a start, I have

def unzip(seq):
  ns = range(len(seq[0]))
  r = [[] for i in ns]
  [r[i].append(s[i]) for i in ns for s in seq]
  return tuple(r)

Is there any better algorithm for unzip?

Regards,
	Pearu



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Mon Mar  4 19:30:16 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:30:16 -0000
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com> <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net>
Message-ID: <slrna884ct.kdf.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:23:37 GMT, Edward K. Ream <edream at tds.net> wrote:
> I find this error all over the web: we try to cram too much onto a
> single page, 

    You mean like the old ICQ main page?  *shudder*

> Another example, the otherwise superb intro to Tkinter,
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
> would be vastly more useful if it fit on a single page.  

    Define "page".  If you say 800x600 you'd lose.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Tue Mar 12 04:39:40 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:39:40 +1100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
Message-ID: <3C8DCCDC.328D0DD0@optushome.com.au>

So asks an article on Mark in the IT section of today's Sydney Morning
Herald - see
http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/12/FFXMFP3LOYC.html

Personally I think that integrating Python into .NET is really
important. But try as I might, I just can't get too enthusiastic about
anything controlled by Microsoft, no matter how cool it is. I think a
photo which appeared in a recent issue of Scientific American sums it up
- see http://www.sciam.com/2002/0102issue/010250100.html

Tim C
Sydney, Australia



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Mar  8 19:11:25 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:11:25 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
 <B8ACE2AC.5F91%jonathan@onegoodidea.com> <3C87680D.CC8A546C@engcorp.com>
 <roy-685C08.09130207032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <tMVi8kKkXofO092yn@gnosis.cx>                

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote previously:
|I just took a look at some random collection of python code I've got laying
|around, totaling 6100 lines.  I've got 85 for loops, 12 of which use range,
|the other 73 don't.  What's even more interesting is that of the 12 ranges,
|11 of them are in a single file; the only file of the collection which I
|didn't write (and which I consider pretty ugly code).

I decided to do the same test (more or less).  A current snapshot of my
"Gnosis XML Utilities" has 3100 lines (written largely by me, with
various contributors).

There are *4* uses of [x]range() in 'for' loops.  One is a test case
that just uses 'range(500)' to do something "a bunch of times".  One of
the remaining three is 'range(1,len(fields),2)', which doesn't lend
itself easily to the integer-iterator proposal.  There are *two*
occurrences of 'range(len(member))', which I agree are slightly awkward
to write and read.

There are actually more uses of the range() function to indicate ranges
of ASCII values than in the loop context, in this particular lump of
code.




From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sun Mar 24 19:32:36 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 02:32:36 +0200
Subject: 2.2.1c1 platform experiences
References: <ueliczuqa.fsf@python.net>        <3c9e2442@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <mailman.1017001418.2255.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c9e7e33@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>    >> I've attempted to summarise the reports of people using 2.2.1c1 on
>    >> various platforms here:
> 
>    Mickey> Speaking of foreign or unusual platforms... does anyone have a
>    Mickey> reliable build-script for building python on arm-linux ?
> 
> No, but if "./configure ; make && make test" doesn't work for you, it would
> be helpful if you file a bug report at SF identifying what didn't work.

Ahh sorry, of course it builds fine _on_ arm-linux, I wanted to request
a build-script for building python _for_ arm-linux - that is cross-compiling.

Yours,

:M:



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Mar 27 15:55:11 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:55:11 -0500
Subject: new to python...
References: <mailman.1017259391.21846.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blqo8.26605$cB5.14743@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"wilby31" <wilby31 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017259391.21846.python-list at python.org...
> Im running Linux and I would like to run a filename.py file..how do I
> go about running this program?  through the command line ?  I have
> version 1.5.2 and I do not have the control to upgrade it.  thanks
>
Either:

1: python filename.py arg1 arg2 ...

or

2: make sure your Python file begins with

#!/usr/bin.env python

then

% chmod +x filename.py
% filename.py arg1 arg2 ...

regards
 Steve






From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 14 06:20:27 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:20:27 GMT
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uvgbzqto6.fsf@python.net>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Michael Hudson]
> > But because mail from the sf tracker seems to be hitting the bit
> > bucket, noone knows about this.

sf support believe this is now fixed, btw.

-- 
  But since I'm not trying to impress  anybody in The Software Big
  Top, I'd rather walk the wire using a big pole, a safety harness,
  a net, and with the wire not more than 3 feet off the ground.
                                   -- Grant Griffin, comp.lang.python


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 31 14:04:12 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:04:12 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a8706n$a3i$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA75DAC.17647CEA@alcyone.com>

Ralph Corderoy wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> > C. Anyone learning Python has some idea of truth and truth values.
> > But I am sure there are some with no idea of what 'bool' means and
> > only a vague idea about 'Boolean'.  Better formalizing Python truth
> > values should make them even easier to learn; why not call them what
> > they are?
> 
> That's an excellent point, as are the others you make.  My Mum would
> understand true but not bool or Boolean.

I'm not really sure how beneficial this would be.  In the real world,
not everything about a programming language -- even a low-overhead
language like Python -- can be instantly intuited by non-programmers. 
After some elementary level they're going to have to start reading. 
That bool (or boolean) is a Boolean type is not a hard concept to get
across, and I don't see how calling it "truth" is really all that much
more helpful.

It's far better, in my opinion, to give it a standard name from computer
science (bool or boolean) and let new programmers take the tiny little
steps (in this case) to add a new word to their vocabulary -- a word
that will help them in future explorations of programming and computer
science, no less.

Excessive attempts to make terms more approachable can lead to disaster
in the degenerate case, resulting in just a new form of terminology that
now nobody understands.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar 17 04:56:33 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:56:33 +0100
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06 at posting.google.com>,
 danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote:

> Even for complex numbers, for which "less than or greater than" is 
> meaningless?

It doesn't have that meaning for me anymore, it simple means "not equal" 
to me. It is an abstract symbol. I really don't believe we can discuss 
this on any other level than "I prefer x because I'm used to it", which 
seems a little, erm, pointless...

Just


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Mar 11 17:51:14 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:51:14 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Cxaj8.8254$mp.36413@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Graz Bukanoff:

> Is Python an object based programming langauge?

   Python is most often described as an object-oriented language. Some
people use the term 'object-based' to refer to languages that can use
objects but can not define new objects. Examples are HyperTalk and some
versions of Visual Basic.

   Neil




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 26 16:51:55 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 16:51:55 -0500
Subject: The Python Way
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a7qqhr$m5$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3 at 4ax.com>,
Dale Strickland-Clark  <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:
>"Dean Goodmanson" <ponderor at lycos.com> wrote:
>>
>>"The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
>>classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code -- not
>>in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death."  Guido van Rossum
>
>I didn't see the original post but I *really* hope this was said in
>jest.
>
>Or is Guido getting writing software and writing novels confused?

Not in the slightest.  Guido was responding to constructs like this:

    lock.acquire()
    try:
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
        code
    finally:
        lock.release()

In any large application, it gets *tiresome* to see this, particularly
if you add another layer of nested try/except.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From paul at boddie.net  Wed Mar  6 14:00:49 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 11:00:49 -0800
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <slrna8c4vi.181.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203061100.654426ee@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote in message news:<slrna8c4vi.181.gerhard at lilith.my-fqdn.de>...
> 
> There's a reason for cursor.execute(query_string, parameters) being in
> the DB-API. Only the DB module can know how to put the parameters
> there correctly with quoting and all.

Well, that remark should, in a just world, kill the almost inevitable
thread about adding SQL quoting to some part of the standard library.
Unfortunately, dubious SQL practices will probably persist until SQL
is just a memory.

Paul


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sun Mar  3 02:04:28 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 01:04:28 -0600
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
References: <mailman.1014963902.19377.python-list@python.org> <3C81C613.8000409@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <009f01c1c281$b19cd660$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au>


> Tim Peters wrote:
> > [Chris Gonnerman]
>
> >>What I want is a version of either python.exe or python21.dll
> >>(whichever contains the offending getpathp.c module) with the
> >>registry-probing code disabled.
> >>
> >
> > If that's what you really want, you'll have to edit getpathp.c and
compile
> > your own Python.
>
> Or, use MSVC or some other resource editor to change the single string
> resource in the compiled Pythonxx.DLL (ie, no need to rebuild the DLL).
>   This will cause a different registry key to be used (by the core, and
> also by extensions that are registry aware).

If I had MSVC I'd build from source.  I work in a mixed Linux/Windows
environment, and use Python for just about everything.  My days as
a C programmer are probably mostly in the past.

Wonder if I can find some other resource editing tool... time to STFW.





From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 10 19:34:36 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:34:36 -0500
Subject: range Failure?
References: <3C8B84B6.DB3F8E9A@sympatico.ca> <a6gm57$18f$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3C8BFB9C.1EF90FAB@engcorp.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:07:18 -0500, "Colin J. Williams" <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> [...]
> >It might say:
> >
> >     range([start= 0,] stop[, step= 1])
> 
> Still, the two optional []'s are not valid in all combinations,
> (which is what you fix with your improved text ;-)
> so maybe it should say something like:
> 
>      range([start= 0,] stop)          # where step defaults to 1, or
>      range(start, stop [, step= 1])

Why not be very explicit, rather than fancy and confusing?  
The above is an improvement over the original, but perhaps 
this is better?

  range(stop)                   # start is 0, step is 1
  range(start, stop [, step=1])

Answering my own question: the first of the three is pretty bad.
The second one suffers from implying that Python can have optional
positional arguments which come before non-optional ones.  The 
third suffers from implying (perhaps?) that Python can have 
overloaded methods.

Since range() doesn't take keyword arguments, even my second
one above could be considered a little bit confusing, if you 
think that implies you can say range(1, 6, step=2) which you
cannot.

-Peter


From Ken.Peek at Engineer.com  Fri Mar 29 17:35:25 2002
From: Ken.Peek at Engineer.com (Ken Peek)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 14:35:25 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (new proposal):
References: <mailman.1017347282.22449.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cfcf4b0d.0203291435.d35e21c@posting.google.com>

[Steve Holden]:
"Your example uses only constant (literal) values. This obviously
makes it possible to guarantee that the tuples do not overlap at
compile time, but is very restrictive. Was this intentional..."?

[Ken Peek]:
No-- that was not my intent at all.  Dynamic objects could be used as
well, with the compiler optimizing the 'literal only' cases.

[Steve Holden]:
"You will find there is considerable resistance to adding new
keywords, due to their propensity to break existing code (for example,
I have some programs that use match as a variable name, and the re
module uses it as the name of a method)."

[Ken Peek]:
As to the considerable resistance-- I think that is a good thing, but
no reason to never discuss language enhancements.  Who knows?  Maybe
some day, someone will come up with a really good enhancement to
Python that has a huge upside, and very little downside.  You note
about the 'match' keyword is well taken.

[Dale Strickland-Clark]:
"You *have* to allow variables in the match list, however, plus
objects that evaluate to a suitable value or sequence of values.
There's no reason why the compiler couldn't detect and optimize the
case where only constants are used." ... "I prefer 'else' to 'any' - a
lot. I makes more sense and doesn't need a new keyword."

[Jeff Shannon]:
"I think that if we're going to add a keyword for this, that "switch"
is a good choice.  It's familiar to C/C++ programmers (at least), it's
reasonably intuitive, and it avoids capitalization monstrosities. ;) 
It does risk breaking old code, of course, but then, *any* keyword
change does that."  "I do prefer the re-use of "else" instead of
adding "any", though. A lot."  "I don't think I like this re-use of
the 'continue' keyword -- it seems to me that the sense, in this
context, is considerably different than the sense of its use in a
loop.  In a loop, it means 'start over from the top', where here, it
means 'run this one next bit too, but not anything else'."  "I'm not
sure that falling through is a necessary idiom to accommodate...."

[Ken Peek]:
Yes-- a keyword to fall through a matched case body to the next is
ESSENTIAL to efficiency and readability.  Also, this fall through
capability is one of the most powerful aspects of the switch/case
construct.

[damien morton]:
"You could go a lot further with this case statement.  First thing is
to allow for variable length list unpack..."

[Ken Peek]:
Interesting idea.  I don't think I'm smart enough to use that level of
complexity though...

[Bengt Richter]:
"case:  Don't like it.  We already have means to do what a case does
and do it more elegantly.  It would add a needless redundant portion
to the language."

[Ken Peek]:
Thanks for your opinion!  Well, I think the most important thing about
Python is that it encourages a programmer to write code that is both
readable and maintainable.  I think I said in my post that you COULD
do the same thing with if/elif/else clauses, but that this construct
is more readable.  Python is not about minimizing the number of
keywords or keystrokes-- it is about READABILITY and MAINTAINABILITY. 
I think a switch/case type of construct would go a long way towards
this goal.

[Laura Creighton]:
"I don't like the overloading of continue.  I'd go for a new keyword,
fallsthrough myself."

[Ken Peek]
(see new proposal below)

==================================
[switch/case keyword selection]:

Many people have expressed that they don't like the use of the keyword
'match', and others have also taken issue of my overloading the of the
keyword 'continue', so I have thought of some alternatives:

['match']:
search, find, seek, branch, branchon, switch, switchon, pick, choose,
select, multibranch

['continue']:
fall, fallthrough, sink, descend, proceed

After hearing the comments of the folks on this news group, I now
think that the use of tuples in this construct was a big mistake-- I
should have proposed the use of lists instead.  Below is a "new
improved version" of the 'switch/case construct, along with my
preference for the new keywords:

##### Another Example #####

from __future__ import multibranching

MyObject = Something

# The "==" test will be used to determine if a match occurred.
# The type, size, number of elements, keys (if any) and values
# of the object being compared must all match exactly for a
# clause to be declared as equal. The lists of the clauses are
# examined recursively. If "MyObject" is itself a list, then
# the first matching list terminates the recursive examination
# of the values in the clauses. The values in the clauses are
# examined exactly in the order as written (top to bottom,
# left to right), and the first matching value terminates the
# examination, causing the matching clauses body to be
# executed. If the last statement in a clause body is a
# "fallthrough", then the body of statements in the following
# clause are also executed:

branchon MyObject:

    [Object_1, Object_N, (99,98,MyVar), 42]:
        # do something
        # do more
        fallthrough # (fall through to next clause body)
    [[1,2,3], "hello", MyDynamicObject, MyList]:
        # do something
        # do more

    []:
        # this matches if "MyObject" is an empty list
        # do something
        # do more

    else:
        # we did not have any matching clauses
        # do something
        # do more

==================================

OK-- please send in the next barrage of critisism...


From jjb5 at cornell.edu  Fri Mar 22 00:28:16 2002
From: jjb5 at cornell.edu (Joel Bender)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:28:16 -0500
Subject: Python2.2 Installation
References: <jjb5-244142.12302820032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> <mailman.1016646213.29793.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jjb5-0AEA42.00281622032002@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

> make install
> 
> ?
> 
> -Andy

Curiously, that seems to do more than "python2 setup.py install" that I 
did before.  Thanks for your help, now I can dance the usual dance. 

Upon more investigation a comment such as "read the rest of the README, 
it's in there" would also have been appropriate.  I stopped reading at 
the end of the "platform specific notes" just before "Configuring 
threads" figuring the rest of the document didn't apply.


Joel


From Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com  Mon Mar 11 21:12:15 2002
From: Gabe.Newcomb at noetix.com (Gabe Newcomb)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:12:15 -0800
Subject: newbie-ish question on exec statement
Message-ID: <0C7CA8D8DF75494EB09AB6016990107FF08312@NOXMAIL.noetixad.com>

Hi all:
	I'd appreciate any comments people might have on the limitations
of using exec. Specifically, what I want to do is build function names
dynamically and call them (don't ask why). 

The function I'm using is one that accepts 3 arguments, the second and
third of which have default values.
The function returns a tuple of 2 values.
I'm calling the function with only one argument, e.g.,

def my_function(arg1, arg2="", arg3=""):
	blah blah

exec "t = my_" + "function('\\\\machine\\share')"


I have a feeling that something unexpected (by me anyway) is happening
with the string I'm trying to pass in as the arg to my_function()--this
is based on the response I'm getting from my function. When I type the
same text (t = my_" + "function('\\\\machine\\share')) into the
interpreter directly, everything's fine.

Is this perhaps only an issue with the interpreter, where I'm testing
this?

Thanks in advance,

Gabe Newcomb



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 15:52:47 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:52:47 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zApp8.39528$VJ1.3652533@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list at python.org...
> I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it
receives
> a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.

>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

+0.8 -- as long as it is not a first step in de-arithmetizing truth
values.

Proposed amendment: call the new type 'truth' instead of 'bool' and
change the title of the PEP to "Formalizing a Python truth type".

A. This PEP formalizes existing Python practice in regards to truth
values.  The 'new' type is not really new.  The main visible effect is
to change the display of the doubleton values.  The existing magic
method is __truth__().  Better to call the new type and constructor
truth() than to change __truth__ () to __bool__().

B. 'bool' is an abbreviation of Boolean, the adjectival form of Boole,
an English mathematician.  I agree with the philosophical argument for
nomenclature that is descriptive rather than 'nymic' (named after
persons -- I forget the formal linguistic term for such).  All other
Python terms that I can think of (except for the name Python itself)
follow this sensible principle.  To me, naming one particular type
after a person is somewhat jarring, especially when it is not
necessary.

C. Anyone learning Python has some idea of truth and truth values.
But I am sure there are some with no idea of what 'bool' means and
only a vague idea about 'Boolean'.  Better formalizing Python truth
values should make them even easier to learn; why not call them what
they are?

D. The word bool(ean) carries a lot of baggage in terms of expected
behavior and *limitations* on behavior.  At least half the debate on
this PEP revolves around the fact that Python truth values act
differently from 'proper' boolean values.  The title of this PEP,
"Adding a bool type", is arguably misleading since the newly
formalized type will not be boolean as many understand the term.

If we do not call Python truth values what they are not quite, or
rather what they are more than, we avoid the mismatch between
expectation and reality (and years of requests to change reality to
match expectation).  In other words, the critics are partly right;
however, my solution is to drop the slightly misleading word bool (and
its associated baggage) instead of changing current (and proposed)
behavior (which I think is pretty good).

>     2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
>        backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
>        (repr(True) would always return "True".)

I can see it either way.

>     3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
>        (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++,
Java
>        and C99).

+ 1 for True/False to corresponding to None, etc.  Do true/false work
*exactly* the same way in all three other languages?  Will Python
True/False be exactly the same?  (I suspect not but simply do not
know.)

>     True+1 == 2 must hold, else reams of existing code would break.

yes, yes, yes.  While this may not be 'proper' boolean behaviour, it
is current Python truth value behaviour.

>     4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
>        in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
>        would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).

no, no, no.  Eliminating useful polymorohic behavior is hardly
Pythonic.

If the new type were called 'truth' (as suggested above, or  'binary')
instead of 'bool', this question would hardly arise.  The behavior of
Python truth values is, for the most part, a *superset* of some
preconceived notions of allowed 'Boolean' operations.  So what?  This
is true of any type which inherits methods from two base types (see
below).

>        I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable
to me.

Forcing this and all similar constructions to be written as
'28+int(isleap(y))' gains nothing and goes against general Pythonic
polymorphism.   Why should one be able to add instances of arbitrary
user-written classes to 28 but not instances of bool/truth?

I understand OO purist objections, but Python is simply not an
OO-purity language.
Documentation makes no claim about what one 'ought' to be able to do
with instances of derived classes versus instances of super-classes.

>     5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
>        believes it should return an int because it's been documented
>        as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other
standard
>        predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
>        returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change
those
>        to return a bool.

I think I would find it odd as new learner to have this one 'logical'
function not return bool.

>     Note that subclassing from int means that True+1 is valid and
>     equals 2, and so on.  This is important for backwards
>     compatibility: because comparisons and so on currently return
>     integer values, there's no way of telling what uses existing
>     applications make of these values.

>     Because of backwards compatibility, the bool type lacks many
>     properties that some would like to see.

??  Because of backwards compatibility, the bool (Python truth) type
will have properties that I *want* to keep.

> For example, arithmetic operations with one or two bool arguments
> is allowed, treating False as 0 and True as 1.

suitibility = has_a(x) + is_b(x) + does_c(x)

Again, wrapping each term in int() in the service of pedantry does not
strike me as Pythonic.  Admittedly, I could define class mybool(int)
(using the reference implementation given in PEP + whatever needed to
make mixed expressions work) and have all predicates I write return
mybool instead of bool(truth).  But having to do seems worse that
present situation.

> Also, a bool may be used as a sequence index.

(option_a, option_b)[binary_switch] # can be quite useful

>     I don't see this as a problem, and I don't want evolve the
>     language in this direction either; I don't believe that a
stricter
>     interpretation of "Booleanness" makes the language any clearer.

Completely agreed.  Again, these issues seem to arise from calling
Python truth values 'bool'.  Conceptually, they inherit behavior from
both int and bool (in the strict sense).

>     Another consequence of the compatibility requirement is that the
>     expression "True and 6" has the value 6, and similarly the
>     expression "False or None" has the value None.  The "and" and
"or"
>     operators are usefully defined to return the first argument that
>     determines the outcome, and this won't change; in particular,
they
>     don't force the outcome to be a bool.

Some languages use 'cand' and 'cor' to differentiate short-circuiting
'conditional'
and/or from strictly logical and/or, but I am glad Python does not.
In any case, Pythons and/or are Python truth value operators, not
Boolean operators.

About deriving bool from int:  a couple of years ago, I followed a
looooong thread on comp.object about the relationship of circles and
ellipses and which should be derived from which.  The problem for oo
theory, it seems to me, is that specialization can take place either
by addition -- a bird is a vertebrate that can fly -- or by
subtraction -- a ratite is a bird that cannot fly.  Evolution does not
follow substitutivity rules.  Neither do mathematicians and
programmers.

Terry J. Reedy





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 17:16:38 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:16:38 -0500
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3CA4E7C6.EDE85B98@engcorp.com>

Jon Cosby wrote:
> 
> Can anyone se why this is coming up empty in the "cols" list? I've tried
> something similar in the interpreter, and everything here looks right. For
> some reason, it isn't finding any matches here.
> 
> ########################################################################
> # WordSquare
> # Build word squares from initial word
> #
> 
> # Word dictionary
> dict = "c:\data\dict.txt"
> 
> firstword = input("Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): ")
> lword = len(firstword)
> words = []
> cols = []
> rows = []

Comments might help a lot.  For example, it's unclear what you are
trying to accomplish here, but it doesn't look quite right:

> f = open(dict, "r")
> for line in f.readlines():
>  if len(line[:-1]) == lword:
>   words.append(line[:-1])
> f.close()

That finds the line matching lword and appends it to words, I think,
which is another way of saying that every instance of lword in the
dict.txt file will be appended to the words list.  Strange...

> for i in range(lword):
>  cols.append([])
>  rows.append([])
> rows[0].append(firstword)

For every character in lword, append an empty list to the rows
and columns?  If that's what you want, you need range(len(lword))
since range() takes an integer.  Didn't you get an exception
here?

> # Generate an array of words with matching first letters
> for i in range(lword):

Same problem as above... use len() with range().

>  for word in words:
>    if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found
>    cols[i].append(word)
> 
> print len(words)
> print cols

Bad indentation here, but that's probably cosmetic.  Try not to 
use tabs when posting source, since many newsreaders screw them
up.  Use spaces instead.

Can you annotate your code so we know what you're trying to do?

-Peter


From j.bijsterbosch at hccnet.nl  Mon Mar 18 04:35:46 2002
From: j.bijsterbosch at hccnet.nl (j.a. bijsterbosch)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:35:46 +0100
Subject: Help Setting PATH w/Python and Win98
References: <b8245cf2.0203160920.2fe59c7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a75a5s$hf6$3@news.hccnet.nl>

Hello Al,

"Al" <shareselect at hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:b8245cf2.0203160920.2fe59c7b at posting.google.com...
> Hi
>
> I am new to programming and am currently doing a Python Tutorial at
>  http://softwaredev.earthweb.com/sdopen/article/0,,12382_626311,00.html
>
> On that page it says I must set the path in Windows to the directory
> where the Python.exe is located so that I can execute Python script.
> I can get around DOS a bit to do this but not sure how to do it
> exactly.  Could someone tell me what I must do?

Hmm, beiing a beginner with Python too, I had the same problem getting
things organised after installation on the W98se platform. A look in the faq
however did give a solution, overlooked in the accompagning tutorial. (at
least I didn't find it<g>)
Create the following line in your autoexec.bat and reboot your system.

SET PYTHONPATH=D:\Python21;D:\Python21\Lib;D:\Python21\Scripts

Obviously you have to change some, to point to your used root
directory/folder...

Hope this helps...;-))

> Al

--
Greetings from rainy Amsterdam

         Jan

email: bijster at worldonline.nl
http://home.worldonline.nl/~bijster




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Mar 14 05:09:48 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:09:48 GMT
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015957103.25893.python-list@python.org> <3C8E7E90.6000608@skippinet.com.au> <WfTj8.2400$523.206744@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3C907711.4030004@skippinet.com.au>

Patrick wrote:
> "Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3C8E7E90.6000608 at skippinet.com.au...
> 
> 
>>[...]  The book I am working on now is *not* Python for .NET,
>>but just .NET.  Python doesn't get much of a mention :(
> 
> 
> Mark, out of curiosity: how did you conclude that the Python community is
> not interested in .NET compatibility? Was it based on the lack of
> contributions to your trial implementation? Or was it a perception that
> Python *users* are not interested?

I would describe it more as a healthy skeptisism towards .NET, but I see 
this starting to thaw slightly with the Open Source efforts.  The Python 
community is not overflowing with Microsoft apologists or zealots ;)

But if I combine this with the fact that new .NET beta releases often 
breaks the Python compiler but I have only received 2 complaints in a 
year, I concluded that interest is not yet high :)

Don't forget .NET 1.0 has only recently been released into production - 
the "wait and see" attitude is quite prudent for many Python users.

Mark.



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 27 20:28:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 01:28:03 GMT
Subject: instrumenting Python code
References: <15521.50103.968819.131319@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203270752550.19847-100000@ns0.tbye.com> <mailman.1017244148.8383.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7trj3$sq1$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:49:18 -0600, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    Dave> The hotshot module doesn't appear to have any documentation
>    Dave> yet.
>
>That's true.  Here's my simple usage scenario:
>
>    import hotshot
>    profiler = hotshot.Profile("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
>    profiler.run("main()")
>    profiler.close()
>    stats = hotshot.Stats("/home/skip/tmp/csv2csv.prof")
>    stats.print_stats()
>
>-- 

 Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import hotshot
 >>> hotshot.Stats
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Stats'

What version/platform are you running?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sat Mar 30 11:11:29 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:11:29 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net><008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com><200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net><014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com><200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <yu991ye2xcsi.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <01b401c1d806$378aa100$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Koenig" <ark at research.att.com>
> Liskov substitutibility would seem to suggest deriving int from bool,
> not the other way around.  That is: If I have a program that uses bool
> values, I can change it so that it uses int values without affecting
> the behavior of the program.  The reverse is not true.

Even that won't work, because of the different repr/str behavior... one
reason I don't like the inheritance relationship.

> I wonder if this is the circle-ellipse problem over again?

square-rectangle-ly y'rs,
dave




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 30 17:18:54 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:18:54 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org> <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3CA639CE.C3F2D7CB@alcyone.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> I don't see much need for it.  There's no need to turn Python into
> Java.
> Python, C, and Lisp have all done fine without bools.  What kinds of
> programming tasks in Python are bools supposed to make easier?

Comparing Python's lack of a Boolean type to C (which _does_ have one in
the latest C99 Standard, so I'll presume you mean C89) and Lisp seems
somewhat unfair, since their conceptions of what is true and false are
much simpler than Python's.  In C, any non-zero value (integral or
floating point) or null pointer is true; in Lisp, any non-nil value is
true.  Lisp even has a special symbol for representing explicit truth:
t.

Python's non-bool concept of truth is much more complicated, as many
things can be false:  0, 0.0, 0-as-rational (when and if that happens),
empty strings, empty lists, empty tuples, empty dictionaries, and --
more importantly -- any class instance that implements the __nonzero__
method to return one of the above values.

I'd say that C and Lisp lacking a Boolean type is in a different
category of language design than Python lacking one.  Truth testing is
so simple in C and Lisp that you can get away with not having one pretty
easily.  I don't think that's the case for Python; Python's lack of a
Boolean data type is one of the few things I think is truly missing.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From aahz at panix.com  Wed Mar  6 20:37:35 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 17:37:35 -0800
Subject: [OSX] pthread problem
References: <644f6688.0202061141.25ac2ef2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a66g8v$mm1$1@panix2.panix.com>

[reposting this to see if it gets more response]

In article <644f6688.0202061141.25ac2ef2 at posting.google.com>,
rdack <rdacker at pacbell.net> wrote:
>osx 10.1.2, sendmail-8.12.2, milter-0.3.9, python2.1
>
>when i try to run the sample.py milter i get:
>dyld: python Undefined symbols:
>_pthread_sigmask
>_sigwait
>
>i see postings saying pthread support is built-in to osx, but they say
>support for those two symbols is missing. it looks like python itself
>is referencing those symbols. i don't those symbols referenced
>anywhere in the module code.
>
>i don't think rebuilding with -lpthread will help. pthreads exist in
>general, just not those two symbols. i don't know what to change to
>get it to run.


-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From mcherm at destiny.com  Mon Mar 11 10:26:27 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:26:27 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?)
Message-ID: <3C8CCCA3.6090200@destiny.com>

 > 1.  Michael! Your Computer thinks its April!  You are making
 >     python archives one month ahead of yourself!
 >     (see: 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-April/091714.html)

Yipes! Thanks. Someone's idea of an april fools joke on me maybe?
Anyway, thanks for point it out.


 > 2. Haskell, which I mispelt, shame on me, I know better, is a
 >    functional language.

I certainly know of the language and didn't even notice the misspelling.


 >    It has functional syntax - don't go there looking
 >    for a 'for loop'.  However, it also has list comprehensions, (which is
 >    where we got them from, I think).  So, what I meant was 'I wish that
 >    Guido had used Haskell's syntax for arithmetic sequences in Python's
 >    for loops'.  That is as follows:

I figured you meant something like that.

 >    [1..10]     => [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
 >    [1,3..8]    => [1,3,5,7]
 >    [1,3..]     => [1,3,5,7,9, ... (infinite sequence)

Aha! Abundantly clear.

 > 3.  Make the time to learn Haskell.  It is simply too much fun.

It's next on my list.

Thanks!

-- Michael Chermside









From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Mar  7 07:10:51 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:10:51 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org> <6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <just-6353F6.13105107032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <6qpu2gzktu.fsf at abnoba.intevation.de>,
 Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote:

> With iterable integers:
> 
> >>> list(4)
> [0, 1, 2, 3]
> >>> tuple(4)
> (0, 1, 2, 3)
> >>> max(4)
> 3
> >>> min(4)
> 0
> >>> filter(None, 4)  # also for map and reduce
> [1, 2, 3]
> >>> L = []   
> >>> L.extend(3)
> >>> L
> [0, 1, 2]
> >>> zip(3)
> [(0,), (1,), (2,)]
> 
> Do we really want all of these new behaviors?

I don't want any of these, but then again, I don't want "for i in 4" 
either. I think it's an awful idea.

Just


From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Wed Mar 27 07:38:30 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:38:30 +0100
Subject: Primes....
Message-ID: <sca1cb5d.051@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

I should have been more specific, yes I am talking about cryptology, and
sadly enough I am runnign win2k, the unix stuff goes out the window. As
for how large of numbers I am looking for, I'd say about 512bit numbers
should do it(perhaps larger, depens on how slow it becomes). Got any
URLs that explain Fermat/Miller-Rabin tests?

/Fredrik

>>> Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> 03/26/02 21:43 PM >>>
"FREDRIK HULDTGREN" <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> writes:

> I am looking for a way(either by finding a module online, or by
getting
> some helpfull hints on how to write this myself) to generate **large**
> prime numbers. All help is appreciated(Id rather write the code myself
> since I tend to like understanding the code that I use, but if the
math
> is too heavy I'll have to use other code...)

How large is large?  If you're trying to do cryptography, just
generate random odd numbers of the size you want, do some trial
divisions to eliminate candidates with small divisors, then do a
few Fermat or Miller-Rabin tests, til you get a prime.  Of course
if you have gmpy, just do this:

    import gmpy,secrand
    def getprime(nbytes):
        while 1:
            p=secrand.getlong(nbytes) | 3
            if gmpy.is_prime(p): return p
       
where secrand.py (for unix/linux) is as follows:

    # Secure random number generator

    # Copyright 2001 Paul Rubin, Fort GNOX Cryptography
    # Copying permissions: GNU General Public License version 2.

    # $Id: secrand.py,v 1.5 2001/09/21 07:10:44 phr Exp phr $

    class _secrand:
        def __init__(self):
            self.__f = open("/dev/urandom")
        def getbytes(self,nbytes):
            return self.__f.read(nbytes)
        def gethex(self,nbytes):
            import binascii
            return binascii.hexlify(self.getbytes(nbytes))
        def getlong(self,nbytes):
            return long(self.gethex(nbytes), 16)

    secrand = _secrand()

If you're trying to break the world record for finding the largest
known prime, you'd normally look at special types of numbers (Mersenne
numbers) and use some special algorithms for recognizing them and
doing the arithmetic.  It's not really practical to do that in Python.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 17:08:53 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:08:53 -0500
Subject: [XP] Code Complete: Things were Scary Back Then
References: <mailman.1017434688.14396.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA4E5F5.70B5A7E5@engcorp.com>

David Brady wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> >
> > I don't remember any of the BASICs that I used,
> > whether Apple II, PET, C-64, MS, or other having modules 

> I did this a lot.  There was no enforcement of
> "modules" in BASIC, but you could still do modular
> programming.  You only had the one big program to work
> with, but you mentally divided it up into sections.

Well, I used reserved blocks of line numbers in the same
way, but I'd hardly deign to call that "making a module".

And I didn't call the use of GOTO "sending a method to
another object" either.  ;-)

-Peter


From python at rcn.com  Fri Mar  8 16:21:45 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:21:45 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEHJOCAA.tim@zope.com>        <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081030500.3722-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.1015592594.15478.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6ba1o$1oi$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015592594.15478.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Roman> Just one comment about
>
>     Roman>   PEP 270 - uniq method for list objects
> Nothing new is necessary since 2.2 was released:
>
>     >>> mylist = [1,2,3,5,6,6,9,9,1,2,3,4]
>     >>> mydict = dict(zip(mylist,mylist))
>     >>> mydict
>     {1: 1, 2: 2, 3: 3, 4: 4, 5: 5, 6: 6, 9: 9}
>     >>> mydict.values()
>     [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9]

Here's a one-liner version that works for all iterables
(using mylist only once):

>>> print map(None, dict(map(None, mylist, (None,))))
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9]


Raymond Hettinger




From thomas at gatsoft.no  Tue Mar 26 03:51:38 2002
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:51:38 GMT
Subject: Difference between eval and exec ??
Message-ID: <uEWn8.8$Vme.170401280@news.telia.no>

Eval and exec seem to have the same effect. What's the real difference?

In this case : docs != enlightenment.

Best regards,
Thomas Weholt






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 13 14:44:47 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 14:44:47 -0500
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <slrna8su7t.7e7.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <E04538FF-369C-11D6-AB89-0030657EBC3E@lanl.gov> <20020313170608.GB2611@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1016043090.10624.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6oa7f$jt4$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016043090.10624.python-list at python.org>,
Cliff Wells  <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>As an aside, if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy
>than a Windows box.

May I use this quote as a .sig like this:

"...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a 
Windows box."  --Cliff Wells, comp.lang.python, 3/13/2002
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 17 16:57:47 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 22:57:47 +0100
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <mailman.1016216529.29034.python-list@python.org> <m3vgbxs7e2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <j9699ucaj1rec9v1abg0geskbovu5jdtj3@4ax.com> <m31yej7z9q.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <j31a9u4jd2ec4j4j02ivm7nr4eine0kmj8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3sn6y7t7o.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Wolfgang Strobl <ws at mystrobl.de> writes:

> >- as you point it, it fails for the raster fonts (for no apparent
> >  reason)
> 
> Carefull. The problem applies to _SetConsoleOutputCP, the reason being
> "SetConsoleOutputCP() is designed to change the mapping of the 256
> 8-bit character values into the glyph set of a fixed-pitch Unicode
> font, rather than loading a separate, non-Unicode font for each call to
> SetConsoleOutputCP(). " according to the Knowledge Base entry mentioned
> above. 

I can appreciate the desire not to load a new font each time. However,
I still think that the console could perform the conversion to the
OEMCP on output, displaying the replacement character for unsupported
characters.

> AFAIK there is no function OutputConsoleW.  Do you mean WriteConsoleW?

Oops, yes.

> >- it is tricky to determine reliably that a file descriptor is
> >  connected to a terminal.
> 
> I wouldn't want the python interpreter become dependent on whether the
> stdout file descriptor is connected to a console window  or not.
> Either always use the CPs of the console window associated with the
> current process, or never.

It wouldn't be that, but "either always use OutputConsoleW, or
never". I don't know what OutputConsoleW does when the file descriptor
is not a terminal.

> IMHO, a standard module which allows more control over platform
> specific parameters (like the code pages of the console window, if
> there is one) would be my prefered solution to this class of
> problems.

Certainly. The questions then are "what precisely is more control",
and "what precisely is this class of problems".

I believe Python should use Unicode API if it has a Unicode input. On
Win32, this applies to various situations: file names, registry,
environment variables, console output, and Tk output. Converting to
some codeset if the underlying environment converts it back to Unicode
is a stupid thing to do.

Regards,
Martin


From kjones at docstrategies.com  Thu Mar 21 11:07:22 2002
From: kjones at docstrategies.com (Keith Jones)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:07:22 -0500
Subject: Python & IRC 
References: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3c9a0349$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>

This is kind of unrelated to your question, but if you really like both
Python and IRC, you may be interested int moobot, an IRC bot written in
python...

http://sourceforge.net/projects/moobot/






From grante at visi.com  Thu Mar 21 21:17:13 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:17:13 GMT
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
References: <mailman.1016754947.17945.python-list@python.org> <3C9A7C83.F61ECDD1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9l51u.1jj.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <3C9A7C83.F61ECDD1 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Geoffrey Talvola wrote:
>> 
>> I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by themselves if there
>> is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?

> Haven't run your tests, but isn't this what SO_KEEPALIVE is used for?

No.  If SO_KEEPALIVE is set, then the TCP layer will send
"pings" (which are actually just bogus ACKs, IIRC) back and
fourth to make sure the link is still there.  If the cable is
pulled or the interface goes down, then the SO_KEEPALIVE option
will detect this and shut down the socket.

It will only close the socket if the link is physically broken.
It doesn't care whether or not there is user data going back
and forth.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Where's the Coke
                                  at               machine? Tell me a joke!!
                               visi.com            


From aahzpy at panix.com  Thu Mar 21 10:21:13 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 10:21:13 -0500
Subject: multithreading and Tkinter
References: <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <a7ctp9$h2v$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <uok7s6qqph.fsf at bashful.cdf.toronto.edu>,
Arcady Genkin  <agenkin-dated-1017130182.c426fa at thpoon.com> wrote:
>
>I have a separate thread, responsible for graphical stuff, which
>displays a bunch of objects as "Tkinter.Lablel"s.  Then, I have a
>buhch of separate threads, which collect information about the
>objects over the network, at specified intervals.
>
>How do I signal the GUI thread that new information for a particular
>object has arrived?  Currently I'm using after() method of the Tkinter
>object to update info for *all* objects every second, but that is
>hardly a good design, since there may be 500 of them, and the new info
>can be arriving once every 15 minutes.

The key is to use Queue.Queue() and stuff the queue with both info and
the object to be updated.  You'll still need to use the after() method,
but you'll only do screen updates when info arrives, and you'll only
need to update the changed objects.  For a simplistic example, see my
home page.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From netzapper at magicstar.net  Sun Mar 31 20:24:44 2002
From: netzapper at magicstar.net (A. Jones)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:24:44 GMT
Subject: Cannot find what I'm sure is a simple command... please help.
References: <3ca7978b.251291804@mammoth.usenet-access.com> <a886fp$sq1$1@panix1.panix.com> <uafaoipgvj7c96@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3ca7b638.259145474@mammoth.usenet-access.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500, "John Roth"
<johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:

>
>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
>news:a886fp$sq1$1 at panix1.panix.com...
>> In article <3ca7978b.251291804 at mammoth.usenet-access.com>,
>> A. Jones <netzapper at magicstar.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >I seem to have either overlooked, or completely missed a function
>that
>> >allows one to open a specific line of a file.
>>
>> There isn't one, unless every line of your file is the same length
>> (fixed-length records).  You need to read one line at a time until you
>> get to the correct line.
>
>If you read the file into a list using readlines(), you can then
>access each line by the index into the list. Unfortunately, that
>doesn't get you one line without reading the entire file up to
>that point...
>
>John Roth

Right, I knew I could do that.  However, when I did that, it causes a
meltdown when I index from that list, owing to the large size of the
file (it's a database, with each entry on a separate line, but with an
arbitrary line size).


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   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
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From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 17:46:46 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:46:46 +0000
Subject: Autodiscovery of proxy settings from a python script
References: <R%5i8.1615$K%4.11598019@news-text.cableinet.net>
 <WN9i8.355$%k6.2701351@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <oH6b2WAW9Ti8EwMT@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <WN9i8.355$%k6.2701351 at news-text.cableinet.net>, Andy
Robinson <andy at reportlab.com> writes
>Thanks to several people.  I am once again stunned by how
>good the Python standard library is.  I spent an afternoon
>surfing and assumed I'd have to write code, but urllib does
>most of what I want by default :-)
>
>Idiot's guide to proxy discovery and use:
>
>1. if hacking at home, get a working proxy server.  I found this
>which compiled fine and "sort of" works - dislikes GIFs
>but can receive plain pages:
>  http://www.codeguru.com/internet/http_proxy.shtml
>
>
>2.  Thereafter, set the proxy in IE and you can do this:
>>>> urllib.getproxies()
>{'ftp': 'ftp://matterhorn:5060', 'http': 'http://matterhorn:5060'}
>>>>
>
>3. Thereafter, calls to urllib.urlopen(myURL) seem to go through
>the proxy by default.
>
>- Andy
....
IE also uses this wpad scheme, but I'm not sure if that also affects the
registry settings.
-- 
Robin Becker


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar 13 14:00:44 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:00:44 -0800
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
Message-ID: <OF4B819BBB.6E9AF784-ON88256B7B.00681745@i2.com>

[David Eppstein]
> Perhaps we should use
>     for (i,x) in list.iteritems(): ...
> (analogous to dictionaries) instead of PEP 279's indexed(list).

That would be my vote, too.

Of course, being not fond of "range(len(", I would throw in list.iterkeys()
or list.iterindices() -- or whatever name -- also.

jim




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 17:41:04 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:41:04 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF54E360C9.E7FE8702-ON88256B73.007A9D13@i2.com>

[Tim Delaney]
> From: James_Althoff at i2.com [mailto:James_Althoff at i2.com]
>>
>> [snip]
>> being sequences <wink>.
>> [snip]
>> back at ya <wink>).
>> [snip]
>> And keep on writing code <wink>.
>
> You've really taken to heart Tim Peter's comments about looking
> more favourably on those who know how to <wink>, haven't you? ;)

No. Actually, I just have some dirt in my eye.  (Ok, that was pathetic).
But if I had some pictures or other, uh, useful material I would use that,
too.  Unfortunately, the pictures that my P.I. turned up of a nice, adoring
dad feeding a baby aren't that big a score.  And I've been told that images
of the T-bot aren't possible because he carries in his front shirt pocket
an unusual rock from his home planet that wrecks film and memory sticks.
(I *really* have a compulsive urge to type a you-know-what right about now
<wi...

Jim




From towmh at online.no  Thu Mar  7 17:40:53 2002
From: towmh at online.no (Tom Halvorsrød)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:40:53 GMT
Subject: Username in Zope
Message-ID: <3c87eb28.25348312@news.online.no>

In my school I'm using a Web-server called Zope, which is
Python-based, for inhouse use only. What I wanna do is for example,
based on the REMOTE_ADDR field, resolve that to the currently logged
in username, look it up in a database and for example display a
birthday greeting where appropriate. So far I've found
sockets.gethostbyaddr(ip) which gives the computer's name. In my
opinion this is way too slow. Something like 3-5 seconds. 

Is there a function or something that is like getuserbyaddr(ip)? I
don't think I've found anything I can use.

The Web-server is on the same server they log on to. (Which by the way
is a Win2k server with DHCP)

Thanx in advance

Tom Halvorsr?d
Oslo



From graz at mindless.com  Sat Mar 16 06:12:48 2002
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:12:48 +0000
Subject: Optimising list comparison
References: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones> <mailman.1016228488.31641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BIFk8.7031$OP.221270@stones>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:41:46 +0000, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Psyco <http://sourceforge.net/projects/psyco>.  I added these lines at
> the end of your benchmark script:
> 
>     import psyco
>     psyco.bind(attempt1)
>     psyco.bind(attempt2)
>     benchmark(attempt1)
>     benchmark(attempt2)
> 
> and ran it again.

Bloody hell. That's seriously impressive.

I re-ran the script that I posted in response to Tim's post, but changed
the loop at the bottom to:

    import psyco
    for f in (attempt1, attempt2, attempt3, attempt4, attempt6):
        benchmark(f)
        psyco.bind(f)
        benchmark(f)
	print

Now I get:

ratchet% python listmatch.py
100000 iterations of <function attempt1 at 0x8129bd4> took: 3.357856 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt1 at 0x8129bd4> took: 0.657385 secs

100000 iterations of <function attempt2 at 0x810340c> took: 7.630363 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt2 at 0x810340c> took: 7.676283 secs

100000 iterations of <function attempt3 at 0x811c254> took: 4.892329 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt3 at 0x811c254> took: 0.646776 secs

100000 iterations of <function attempt4 at 0x812b254> took: 3.406146 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt4 at 0x812b254> took: 0.624154 secs

100000 iterations of <function attempt6 at 0x811c28c> took: 4.721051 secs
100000 iterations of <function attempt6 at 0x811c28c> took: 2.805202 secs

Thanks Skip (and to everybody else who posted suggestions). It's been a
very interesting little discussion.

-- 
Graham


From owen_stevens at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 12 12:32:08 2002
From: owen_stevens at hotmail.com (Owen Stevens)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 09:32:08 -0800
Subject: new to python - please help
Message-ID: <9e629c01.0203120932.5b3eae15@posting.google.com>

(apologies for last post)

i made a dictionary (mydict) with the following structure:         
            mykey=(list1:list2)

i overwrote list1 inside the dictionary with a new list
            
     templist1=[mydict[mykey][0]
     templist.append(new_values)
     mydict[mykey]=(templist,templist2)
	




i then tried to retrieve list1 

        for i in mydict[mykey][0]:
             print i


it comes out like this:




[[[[[['value1'], "['value2']"], "['value3']"], "['value4']"],
"['value5']"], "['value6']"]['value7']



which is pretty useless, as len[list1] returns 2 instead of 7 


can anyone point me in the right direction?


From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Mon Mar 25 12:52:25 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:52:25 +0100
Subject: Random...
Message-ID: <sc9f71ee.015@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

I want to generate random numbers, very large random numbers. If I use
randrange() I get an out of bounds error since it only supports numbers
up to (2**31)-1. However, I can use uniform(), but then I get the number
returned in 7.9655120654553743e+018 or something simaler, and I would
rather have it in a "L" format(796551206545537430183218312890381031L).
How do I do this?

thanx
/Fredrik



From tiberius at ms28.hinet.net  Fri Mar 15 09:09:12 2002
From: tiberius at ms28.hinet.net (Tiberius Teng)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 06:09:12 -0800
Subject: Using cgitb under mod_python
Message-ID: <6c92a8bc.0203150609.3b62aef8@posting.google.com>

Recently I'm writting a program using mod_python and want it to have a
pretty printed error message page, and I find that cgitb probably
helps me. But unfortunately I can't get it work under mod_python,
although I imported it and called it's enable() function but my script
still sends ordinary traceback info (I use 'raise ValueError' to test
it out).

Any ideas ?


From ron at ire.org  Fri Mar  1 08:37:12 2002
From: ron at ire.org (ron nixon)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 05:37:12 -0800
Subject: ASV module, CVS modules
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <61ff32e3.0203010537.79082e89@posting.google.com>

sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote in message news:<c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a at posting.google.com>...
> ron at ire.org (ron nixon) wrote in message news:<61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102 at posting.google.com>...
> > Hello, I'm trying to use either of these two modules ASV by Laurence
> > Tratt at http://tratt.net/laurie/python/asv/ and CSV by Dave Cole at
> > http://object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/. I tried both of these and
> > get this error:
> > 
> > Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
> > >>> import ASV
> > >>> my_data = ASV.ASV()
> > >>> my_data.input_from_file("c:\test_data.csv", ASV.CSV(),
> > has_field_names =1)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
> >     my_data.input_from_file("c:\test_data.csv", ASV.CSV(),
> > has_field_names =1)
> >   File "C:\PYTHON22\ASV.py", line 222, in input_from_file
> >     file = open(input_file, "rb")
> > IOError: invalid argument: rb
> > >>> 
> > 
> > I get a similar message from CSV module. Anyone use either of these
> > and can tell me what's wrong?
> > 
> 
> Wow. You have two problems. Bill Gates has one. And one of either you
> or Dave Cole will get busted real soon now if you keep smoking that
> stuff :-)
> 
> To be more explicit:
> 
> You 1: Don't clutter the root directory of your C: drive with anything
> other than "necessary" directories, and files other than what Bill &
> other software providers dump in there.
> 
> You 2: On Windows, either use forward slashes "c:/test_data.csv" (it
> works!) -- recommended -- or use raw strings r"c:\test_data.csv" if
> you must. The problem is that Python's escape handling intervenes;
> what Bill's software got to see in your case was equivalent to "C:" +
> a_bloody_tab_character + "est_data.csv" !!!
> 
> Bill behaving badly: Seems like Bill chucks a wobbly if there is
> a_bloody_tab_character in a file name. I could be maligning Bill
> unjustly; could be GvR & Co -- I'll have a look at the Python source
> in a minute -- but I'd bet a couple of pots of beer that it's down to
> Bill.
> 
> You and/or Dave in peril of the law: Last time I saw Dave's module it
> didn't presume to read files at all, it expected you to read lines and
> pass them to it one at a time. So either Dave has had a very recent
> rush of blood or something worse to the head and released unbeknownst
> to me a file-handling version of his module, or you are gravely
> mistaken when you assert "I get a similar message from CSV module".
> 
> Hope this helps,
> John



John:

Thanks a bunch. Let me try you suggestions and see if they work. It
was late at night while I was trying this :). Maybe I should have had
a beer. You're right about the CSV module, I didn't look at it
carefully. Again, lack of beer.

Ron


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 22:57:49 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 03:57:49 GMT
Subject: seek in a file
References: <a7qujn$n78gl$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a7rfvt$c8j$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:00:40 +0100, "Andreas Penzel" <mail at andreas-penzel.de> wrote:

>Hello NG!
>
>How to jump to a specified line in a file which is read-opened?
>With seek() I can jump to an exact position of  the complete file in
>"byte-steps".
>Is seek able to jump to a line-number?
>If not, what else can I do?
>
Others have mentioned that in general lines are variable length, etc.
If you have a huge file, it's not practical to read it all into
memory and select various lines from the list, but if you need
random access to lines of a big file, you can solve the problem
by making a list of line start positions as seen if you open the
file in binary.

I cobbled together a class to do the basic work. Here's it's use,
followed by the code (for huge files, you might want to have
a loadIndex and a storeIndex as well, so as to be able to load
a pickled index instead of re-indexing the actual file.
For small files you might as well use readlines).

Below, I print a test file sequentially, and then access it randomly.

Because of the binary mode, you get \r\n uncooked and included. You
could modify the class to exclude them. This is only tested far enough
to get the result below ;-)

 >>> import LineFile
 >>> lf = LineFile.IndexedLineFile('test.txt')
 >>> lf[0]
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "LineFile.py", line 24, in __getitem__
     raise IndexError,'"%s" is not indexed yet.' % self.theFile
 IndexError: "test.txt" is not indexed yet.

I expected that ;-)

 >>> lf.initIndex()
 >>> len(lf)
 8
 >>> for i in xrange(len(lf)): print 'lf[%d]: %s' % (i,lf[i].rstrip())
 ...
 lf[0]: Line zero.
 lf[1]: A longer line, this is line one.
 lf[2]: Line with index two.
 lf[3]: 3
 lf[4]: 4 (the next is blank)
 lf[5]:
 lf[6]: and 6. The next will be the last, with no EOL.
 lf[7]: This is the last line (index 7).
 >>> lf[2]
 'Line with index two.\r\n'
 >>> lf[1]
 'A longer line, this is line one.\r\n'
 >>> lf[7]
 'This is the last line (index 7).'
 >>> lf[8]
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "LineFile.py", line 28, in __getitem__
     return self.f.read(self.positions[i+1]-self.positions[i])
 IndexError: list index out of range

I expected that too ;-)

 >>> lf[0]
 'Line zero.\r\n'

======== LineFile.py ===========
class IndexedLineFile:
    def __init__(self, afile):
        self.theFile = afile
        self.positions = [0]
        self.isIndexed = 0
        self.f = None
    def initIndex(self):
        self.f = file(self.theFile,'rb')
        MAXINT = int(2**31-1)
        while self.f.readline():
            pos = self.f.tell()
            # save EOL position (last will be EOF position).
            # save space using integers vs longs from tell()
            self.positions.append(pos<=MAXINT and int(pos) or pos) # last will be EOF position
        self.isIndexed = 1
    def close(self):
        try:
            if self.f: self.f.close()
        except IOError:
            pass
        self.f = None
    def __getitem__(self, i):
        if not self.isIndexed:
            raise IndexError,'"%s" is not indexed yet.' % self.theFile
        if not self.f:
            self.f = file(self.theFile,'rb')
        self.f.seek(self.positions[i])
        return self.f.read(self.positions[i+1]-self.positions[i])
    def __len__(self):
        return len(self.positions)-1
======================================

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de  Sun Mar 24 18:09:41 2002
From: MaximilianScherr at T-Online.de (maximilianscherr)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:09:41 -0000
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
In-Reply-To: <a7klhn$b6o$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <a7lmbl+ilpe@eGroups.com>

it's good, but i'm not sure if that can do what i want:) though i 
probably asked the wrong question.
i need a tutorial for a server (not only a simple one, one with 
client handlers, and info on clients..., like in games)
cause i want to create a server emulator for an online game, and 
therefor i need at first a 'server engine' to accept the packets 
handle them...

--- In python-list at y..., "Irmen de Jong" <irmen at N...> wrote:
> > Is there any good tutorial for creating advanced client/server 
apps
> > (like online games) out there? i tried to make one 2 times, and 
both
> 
> May I suggest you take a look at Pyro;   http://pyro.sourceforge.net
> It may be just what you want/need for easy distributed application 
development.
> You don't have to do any network programming when using Pyro.
> 
> Irmen de Jong
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From edream at tds.net  Mon Mar  4 19:11:03 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:11:03 GMT
Subject: Why isn't pychecker mentioned prominently?
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <3C840D15.6DE23E12@tds.net>

Neal Norwitz wrote:

> In the meantime, I suppose the best approach is to add some doc
> (both in Python and Pychecker).  I added a Python FAQ entry (4.101)
> a while ago.  What are some suggestions for where best
> to update documenation, provide links, etc.
> including  specific pages or files?

Good question.  I think a link to pychecker is worth a link in the
Special Topics panel at python.org/.  Another possibility is
py-howto.sourceforge.net/  A short paragraph there could cover tools
such as pychecker, idle, pyunit.

IMO, the python web site could profitably be reorganized.  I'll discuss
this in a new thread called "Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't
pychecker...)"

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 08:59:25 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:59:25 +0000
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <a60nas$o76$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Siegfried Gonzi wrote:

> 
> I wrote this all, because I have sometimes seen people in comp.lang.lisp
> which are saying that they come
> from Python and want to use Lisp because Python is very slow. Surely, a
> matrix-matrix multiplication of
> the dimension 1024x1024 in Common Lisp (only a simple code without any
> declarations) is about 5 to 10
> times faster than a native Python code with native Python arrays (a
> Clean version is even about 100
> times faster). This is a??fact.?But?there?is?NumPy?out?there?and?most?of
> the time a scientific data
> evaluation does not include array handling ala matrix-matrix
> multiplication. Often you steer through
> your data sequentially.

If you are really intersted in python for scientific computing, you need to 
look at scipy.org. There you'll find atlas-based matrix handling routines 
which will probably easily beat any lisp code you can come up with (atlas is 
optimized in assembly for your processor). But the high-level interface is 
still python, so you don't need to drop down to the assembly code ever.

Cheers,

f


From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 17:10:32 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 14:10:32 -0800
Subject: hotmail
References: <mailman.1015102571.6690.python-list@python.org> <a689ml$cbf9b$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <899f842.0203071410.7a0895c4@posting.google.com>

I use one written in perl (ya I know...) called gotmail.pl. It works
great but uses curl under linux. You could easily rewrite it in
python.

Anthony


"Bertrand Geston" <bergeston at yahoo.fr> wrote in message news:<a689ml$cbf9b$1 at ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>...
> Seems to be magic, thanks for the question and for the response. Really
> interesting.
> I would like to retrieve mails from Hotmail and I wonder if it is not
> 'better' to use COM/DOM on Outlook express that can, if I am not mistaken,
> retrieve mails from Hotmail using http requests. By 'better', I mean less
> linked to the hotmail site layout (but OK linked to the Oultook DOM
> interface) and probably quicker.
> 
> Any thought, idea, code snippets ?
> 
> TIA.


From amoustafa at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 01:33:48 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:33:48 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
Message-ID: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com>

1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
2. Will Python dominate?
3. Who does support Python?

Thanks a lot for your attention.

Ahmed



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar 19 18:57:03 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:57:03 +0100
Subject: [pygresql] Please suggest
In-Reply-To: <20020319231043.58646.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020319181506.8E7E757C6@smaug.vex.net> <20020319231043.58646.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020319235702.GA4144@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 19/03/02 ? 15:10, Suraj Peri ?crivit:
> Dear Group, 
>  Please excuse me if my question is not appropriate
> for this group. We are planning to make a public
> object oriented database for genes and proteins (
> biological databases are generally huge and has lots
> of inter-relationships). 
> While planning this, my friend is very much particular
> about using Zope. 
> Our plan is using PostgreSQL-PHP tiers. 
> there will be many relationships between our objects.
> Now the question is is Zope more sophisticated in
> dealing with objects than PostgreSQL? if so is this
> sophistication is in dealing with the complexity of
> relationships between objects or something else?
> 
> Please suggest is ZOPE a good and better choice that
> PostgreSQL-PHP or PostgreSQL-JDBC-Java client
> interface. 

Well, PHP, ZOPE and Java servlets are only technologies for the
frontend. It doesn't matter much which one you choose - either one will
work. But in IMO Python and Java better languages than PHP. And,
compared to Java, Python is far easier to develop with. Btw. I've also
seen some open-source computational biology libraries for Python
mentioned on the comp.lang.python newsgroup.

The much more important decision to make is which backend technology
(database) to choose. AFAIK PostgreSQL is not really an Object Database,
though it may have some features that go in this direction.

I basically see two options
1) a relational database, like PostgreSQL
2) an object database, like ZODB (for Python, part of Zope). There are
also several open-source object databases for Java

But to say which one is more appropriate, we'd have to know more of the
requirements.

One more hint: if you want to reuse Java libraries from an easy-to-use
language like Python, you can use Jython (http://www.jython.org/). It's
a Python interpreter than runs in the JVM.

As for a more perhaps more appropriate place to ask, I don't know a
newsgroup that has this exact topic, but I think you might get value
advice in the comp.lang.python newsgroup, or the Python mailing list,
which is basically the same thing, just via email.

Come to think of it, I'l just cc the Python mailing list. Have an eye
there (or in the newsgroup, whichever you prefer).

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar 21 15:22:13 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 20:22:13 GMT
Subject: Painful apache compilation
References: <D3rm8.54610$1S3.1635300@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <slrna9kg7k.q5j.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <D3rm8.54610$1S3.1635300 at twister1.libero.it>, 
	Giuseppe Ricioppo wrote:
> /usr/src/Python-2.2/Python/thread_pthread.h:174: undefined reference to
> `pthread_sigmask'
> /usr/src/Python-2.2/Python/thread_pthread.h:176: undefined reference to
> `pthread_create'

Probably you need an additional library in order to get the pthreads
functions; check if your system has a libpthread or libthread, and add
-lpthread or -lthread to the link command.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Abstraction is one of those notions that Python tosses out the window,
yet expresses very well.
    -- Gordon McMillan, 6 Jan 2000



From m2 at plusseven.com  Tue Mar 26 10:20:41 2002
From: m2 at plusseven.com (m2 at plusseven.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:20:41 +0100
Subject: implementing a constant singleton
In-Reply-To: <p4_n8.1650$Ya2.72647@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <p4_n8.1650$Ya2.72647@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020326152041.GA907@matijek>

Without having really looked at your code I want to ask you if you've
looked at:

1) Alex Martelli's Borg
(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531)

2) Bruce Eckel's discussion of singeltons in "Thinking in Python"
(http://64.78.49.204/TIPython.zip)

-- 
o polite
http://plusseven.com/gpg/



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 27 18:28:24 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 00:28:24 +0100
Subject: unicode experiments + questions
References: <a7tgrl$ipu$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3pu1p7fqf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:

> First, what is the best way to enter international and/or unicode characters
> in your Python source? I can't just type the Euro sign and trust that it
> is read as a Euro sign on another platform, because how does Python know
> the character encoding of the source file!

For Python 2.2 and earlier, I recommend to maintain the file in utf-8,
and then do

msg = unicode("<utf-8 string containing euro sign>", "utf-8")

To view this source code properly, you need a UTF-8 editor; the same
approach would work with any other encoding. Python will treat this
code identical on all platforms.

If you want the code to display properly on all editors, you can write

msg = u"\N{EURO SIGN}"

> So I'm using the unicode escape char syntax, but that is cumbersome
> (where do I look up all my special characters?) and hard on the eyes.

Numeric values are difficult to read, indeed - I recommend to use the
symbolic values. On Windows, you can find those using charmap.exe; on
Linux, /usr/share/i18n/charmaps/UTF-8{.gz} lists the character names.
If neither is available, refer to unicode.org.

> I also have the following question:
> what exactly happens when I type  "print u" in Python, where u
> is a unicode string? 

It computes str(u), which in turn invokes
u.encode(sys.getdefaultencoding()).

> I'm on Win2000, so when I type
> >>> print e.encode('cp1252')
> I get the Euro symbol. 

What do you mean by that statement? Where do you "get" it? In the
cmd.exe window? Unlikely, since that window uses the OEM encoding.

Regards,
Martin


From paul at boddie.net  Sun Mar 31 11:20:10 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 08:20:10 -0800
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org> <slrna9haud.e6b.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <slrnaa3bi8.lam.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <23891c90.0203290655.25bbcab9@posting.google.com> <slrnaacob1.bu2.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203310820.60696fb1@posting.google.com>

I wrote:
> > In the Python community, there is obviously an intense interest in
> > templating, but I haven't seen more than a handful of validation
> > packages, and I can imagine that few of them actually integrate
> > satisfactorily with template packages.

Jon replied:
> I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you give an example of what a
> "validation package" might do?

The way I see things, when developing Web applications, is as follows.
First of all, developers need to present some state of the
application, and this is where template systems first get used. Of
course, as I noted in my previous response, it depends on the nature
of the application (and how the development work on the application is
organised) as to whether you prefer HTML-in-Python or Python-in-HTML
or some "more neutral" template language.

If the nature of the user responses to a particular "screen" are of
more than limited complexity, it becomes tiresome to manually code
HTML form tags, and this is where certain template solutions provide
some help to developers. For example, JavaServer Pages provide "custom
tags" which can be used to substitute commonly-used output into pages
in a nicer way than "home-made" solutions (since the designers did
think about the re-use of tags across applications, and there's a
reasonably powerful object model for tags to plug into).

The next problem, though, is coordinating the output with the input.
One can invent a "custom tag" (or corresponding feature in one's
framework of choice) which emits an HTML "input" field, but where is
the code that checks the value returned by the user through that
field, and how can we be sure that such code is validating and
manipulating the same kind of data as that described by the "input"
field? For example, I could invent a "custom tag" like this:

  <myapp:specialInput name="someField"/>

This could result in the following HTML being generated:

  <input name="someField" size="30" type="text">

The intention might be that the contents of "someField" are in a
particular format. Moreover, such data may be stored in a database
system, and we might want to keep the "size" or "length" of a piece of
data synchronized with the data type used in the database - it's not
uncommon for such things to evolve as the requirements of an
application change, but it would be very inconvenient to need to
change HTML form descriptions, validation code, template system code,
all in a number of different places.

Template systems typically don't address these issues, whereas
stand-alone validation systems address the nature of the input data
but not how such data is "described" to the browser (and thus to the
user). A coordinated approach which unifies input, output, and
validation seems to be the logical next step in any significantly big
or complex application.

Paul


From someone at microsoft.com  Tue Mar 19 18:08:06 2002
From: someone at microsoft.com (John Smith)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:08:06 -0800
Subject: socket.gethostbyname() AttributeError
References: <uPGl8.1121$MC5.110514@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1016544391.11261.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a78gcq$32k$1@ns2.gonzaga.edu>

You are both right.  It does work.  It has to be a typo or the way that I am
passing the host value into the program.

Oh well...

Ralph

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016544391.11261.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 01:12:58PM +0000, Ralph wrote:
> > I assumed that for scoket.gethostbyname(host), I was to pass a host of
the
> > type "theodore.chipmunks.com" and that I would get back an IP address as
a
> > doted quad.  Obviously I am wrong about the form of the arguement I am
to
> > pass to the function, because I am getting an AttributeError message.
> >
> > Can anyone offer some insight?
>
> Python 2.2 (#1, Dec 24 2001, 17:25:15)
> [GCC 2.95.2 20000220 (Debian GNU/Linux)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import socket
> >>> socket.gethostbyname("www.python.org")
> '194.109.137.226'
>
> Oleg.
> --
>      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
>




From rpalton at mac.com  Mon Mar 11 09:02:46 2002
From: rpalton at mac.com (Ricks Palton)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:02:46 -0400
Subject: Definition problem
Message-ID: <rpalton-097137.10024611032002@news.videotron.ca>

Hi,

Here's a little program I found:

from MMTK import * 
from MMTK import Bonds 


class MyMolecule(Molecule): 

def __init__(self, name, atoms, bonds): 
self.atoms = [] 
self.bonds = [] 
self.groups = [] 
self.name = name 
for element, position in atoms: 
self.atoms.append(Atom(element, position = position)) 
for i1, i2 in bonds: 
self.bonds.append(Bonds.Bond((self.atoms[i1], self.atoms[i2]))) 
self.bonds = Bonds.BondList(self.bonds) 
self.parent = None # top-level object 
self.type = None # no database type 

h2 = MyMolecule('h2', [('h', Vector(0., 0., -0.05)), ('h', Vector(0., 
0., 0.05))], [(0, 1)]) 


h2.writeToFile('test.pdb')


When I execute it, here's what I get:

09:51:06 [localhost:~/Documents] r1ck5p$ python mymolecule.py 
  File "mymolecule.py", line 6
    def init(self, name, atoms, bonds):
      ^
IndentationError: expected an indented block


I'm on Mac OS X 10.1.3
What's the problem and what should I do?

Thankx
r1ck5p


From abou at cam.org  Sun Mar 31 14:46:26 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:46:26 -0500
Subject: memory usage
Message-ID: <3CA76792.589883A5@cam.org>

Is there a specific way to clean the memory used by python scripts?
While debugging my project, I always get a 'not enough memory to run
this program' after running it a few times (Win98). I don't know if
there's a "ps -aux"-like command on DOS, so I could see what's eating
all the memory. 
I always c.close() after a c.open(), so I guess it's not because opened
files are not properly closed. 


-- 
Zutroi Zatatakowski
Commando PACU
http://pacu.cjb.net



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar 29 09:05:25 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:05:25 -0600
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com> <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <junkster-FC1F06.05481529032002@typhoon4-1.nyroc.rr.com> <g7_o8.16919$Ou.7716@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <008201c1d72a$dc621be0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
>
> "Benjamin Schollnick" <junkster at rochester.rr.com> wrote ...
>
> > The CASE is cleaner, and can only be used to compare a SINGLE variable
> > with multiple values.  And I believe it's easier to maintain.....(And
> > can be optimized easier).
> >
> I don't. By the way, there's NO NEED TO SHOUT! ;-)

I'm with Steve on this; but further, the reason not to add features
to Python is always the same:  you screw up the simplicity and
cleanness.  Sure, if you only add ONE of the things (sorry for 
shouting Steve :-) which is proposed each, oh, say each year, then
the language wouldn't be screwed up.  But how many things are
recommended each year?  A hundred or so reasonable suggestions?

Even if each and every suggestion is reasonable, when you get
done implementing all of them you have Perl.

So, each suggested change must be weighed not only for reasonableness
and utility, but also must have *really massive value* to overcome
the don't-add-unnecessary-stuff rule.

CASE closed.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar 24 19:32:40 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:32:40 GMT
Subject: forgetting state
References: <98b6685d.0203231539.1459d00d@posting.google.com> <cadr9u8ga972iieh0naiubrde1isultk99@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Ieun8.7808$8r.7426@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

>
> This is a known, zero priority problem. See my recent posts on the
> develop-test-debug cycle.
> --

It's a feature, not a bug ;)

One of the big bullet items for python is that it operates in a dynamic
environment.  The programmer can modify the environment at runtime.  In a
dynamic environment, you don't want to trust the system to decide what
existing objects should be killed (other than gc) or what existing objects
do or don't need to be fixed.  It's up to the programmer to explicitly do
this if he/she wants to.  An even more unforgivable sin than not having the
system "fix" broken objects/dependencies/etc is to allow the system to break
currently functioning and running objects.  It's very difficult (probably
impossible) to write a general-purpose, "if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it"
algorithm.   Given this, it makes sense that the only way to ensure that
you've returned to the initial state of the environment is to kill it and
create a new one.

Now I'm not saying you need to agree with this (you obviously don't), but it
is a genuine philosophical decision on how things should operate, as opposed
to an oversight or bug needing to be corrected.  There are probably lisp or
smalltalk programmers at the other end of the spectrum who think that an
image of the enviroment should be saved automatically when you shut down the
interpreter.  Then when you open it up again you're NOT in any sort of
'initial state', but right where you left off, bugs and all.

There are also people who get very upset that 1) there is no mechanism for
static typing in Python, 2) there are no plans to add it, and 3) (even worst
of all!) noone cares.  This is another philosophical decision and not an
oversight.

And, of course, with all philosophical decisions, it's really hard to prove
who's right and who's wrong. [Except mob rule, and it looks like the mob has
spoken.]




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Mar  6 13:04:45 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:04:45 +0000
Subject: Tkinter: can widgets automatically resize to fit parent?
References: <mailman.1015424349.21272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a65hvq$1fld$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Andy Gimblett wrote:
> I want my Tk widgets (some of them, at least) to resize dynamically
> with the window.
> 
> Trivial example:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class Application(Frame):
> 
>     def __init__(self, master):
>         Frame.__init__(self, master)
>         self.action = Button(self.master, text="Go")
>         self.action.grid(sticky=N+E+W+S)

Two reasons why it's not working:
- you didn't actually display your Application in its master. The 
"Frame.__init__" stuff does not suffice: you should also do a pack or grid. 
Then, inserting the button in self.master rather than in self should be 
useless...
- you configured your button to take the size of its parent cell using the 
sticky option, but you didn't tell the cell to take the whole space in its 
parent. This should be done via the grid_rowconfigure and 
grid_columnconfigure methods to set the weight option on the cell.

So here is a code that does what you want:

from Tkinter import *
 
class Application(Frame):
 
    def __init__(self, master):
        Frame.__init__(self, master)
        ## Actually insert self in its master
        self.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=1)
        ## Configure cell at (0, 0) to take the whole space
        self.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
        ## Insert button in self rather than self.master
        self.action = Button(self, text="Go")
        self.action.grid(sticky=N+E+W+S)
etc...

HTH
 - eric -


From miah at picsel.com  Mon Mar  4 06:43:34 2002
From: miah at picsel.com (Miah Gregory)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:43:34 GMT
Subject: cross platform (linux/windows) problem
References: <f5c74c0f4b.miah@picsel.com> <a5jheh$ceb$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <e717ea114b.miah@picsel.com>

In message <a5jheh$ceb$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>
          Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> See if the following code helps. It does all the trapping of stdout/stderr
> in a class, and you can then decide what to do with it. It doesn't address
> the calling part of your problem, only the output part.

-snip code-

I tried a simple test of your code, not directly, but by hand, and although
stdout /seemed/ to get trapped, it seemed to go to oblivion. stderr didn't
work at all.

I should note at this juncture that I'm working with python 1.5.2 from
debian stable. The popen tactic works fine under windows now, as that's
running python 2.0. Unfortunately, though, I can't upgrade my linux machine,
as too much other stuff depends on this version of debian.

Thanks for your reply, though.. I'll have another play around with it and see
if I can persuade it to work.

-- 
Miah Gregory


From phlip_cpp at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 09:26:48 2002
From: phlip_cpp at yahoo.com (Phlip)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 14:26:48 GMT
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <3CA1BB93.FC00D40D@pop.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <a7skr8$au5@dispatch.concentric.net>

a.clarke11 wrote:

> Hi
> I defined a class, and made an instance. The class sis not have a
> def__init__() line. In the class, I defined a function  f(x) and an list
> object X.tiles. Why can I later call instancename.f, and
> instancename.tiles?
> I thought the class had to have a def__init__() line in it for this to
> work? I would be glad if somebody could spell this out for me, although
> it is working perfectly well in the finished program!
> The relevant code is:
> class Player:
> 
>  import random
>  Tiles=[]
>  Sound="click"
>  Win="yippee"
>  playlist=[]

Firstly, please push your code apart with more blank space, to make it 
readable.

>  def chooseTiles(x):

>   x.Tiles=[]

That is called a "magic member". (At least I call it that.) Members don't 
only declare in the __init__, they declare anywhere you say a reference to 
the object, a dot, the member name, an equals =, and a value.

MMs are a bad habit, because if later on you accidentally type...

        x.Tyles=[]

...you now have two members with similar names, and Python won't warn.

We have a style guideline to only declare members in the __init__. That 
does very little to help this problem, but we go Test-First with PyUnit so 
our risk is very low.

And we wrap all data members in get/set pairs, so the above would have been:

        x.setTiles([])

Because Magic Methods are impossible, we are covered.

-- 
  Phlip
           http://flea.sourceforge.net
  --  The plasma signature at the end of the
      wormhole is an approaching warbird  --


From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Wed Mar 20 05:51:40 2002
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:51:40 +0100
Subject: module for accessing dBase (.dbf) files?
References: <3C725F2C.2020406@gncz.cz>
Message-ID: <a79pbk$nj5$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Ondrej Martinek" <oma at gncz.cz> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3C725F2C.2020406 at gncz.cz...
> Hi,
>
> anyone knows a python module for accessing dBase .dbf files.  All
> modules I've found so far didn't support index files.
>
> Regards
> --ondra

http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/python/ offers
a dbfreader module, but that, too, works only for reading.

http://www.fiby.at/dbfpy.html offers a link to a package
that handles DBF files with Python, but it seems largely
unsupported.  Maybe that one can write the files, too.

There's a project at http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbase-py/
but it doesn't seem to have done much.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xdb/ is a C++ library for
dBase manips and advertises Perl and Python as languages
too (presumably via wrappers), you may want to look at it.

If you're willing to go commercial,
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2001-January/000641.ht
ml
announces a wrapper for the Codebase library sold by
Sequiter (www.sequiter.com) that should do what you
want, but the wrapper doesn't include the library and
you do have to pay for the latter (after a 30-days time
to evaluate it).


Bye,
Harald





From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 15:48:58 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:48:58 +0000
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <slrna9htdq.5dl.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:52:35 +0000 (UTC), Greg Weeks <weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com> wrote:
>Is there a popular style document for Python?  I realize that there isn't a
>whole lot of scope for such a thing, but I wondered because of certain
>particular issues that came to mind.
>
>
>1.  I use "me" instead of "self" in method definitions.  I mention this not
>to ask what people think -- I have an unpleasant suspicion

I think it's a good idea, if a bit unconventional.

IMO the requirement to say self everywhere in methods is the worst 
feature of python.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From andreas at mtg.co.at  Mon Mar  4 13:48:27 2002
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:48:27 +0100
Subject: Can Python do this?
In-Reply-To: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <QtOg8.48779$sH1.3193737@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020304194827.42c60dd2.andreas@mtg.co.at>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:51:13 -0500
"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hello, Python newbie here.
> 
> Let's say I'd like to build a method name into a string variable (e.g.
> "FuncCall" + "1" to attempt to call "FuncCall1").  Can I then call that
> method by somehow having the interpreter evaluate the string variable into a
> call to the desired method? (I know this is usually done in a language like
> Prolog or Lisp but I'm hoping Python can do it too.)
> 
> If so, can you point me to a good article or example of such that would show
> me the relevant Python syntax.
Well, in Python your functions/methods are objects also ;)
So the only tricky thing is to get the right dictionary where your objects are stored in:

def func1():
	print "func1"

def func2():
	print "func2"

def func3():
	print "func3"

for x in xrange(1,4):
	globals()["func"+str(x)]()

# for object methods this would be something like:
# getattr(obj,"method"+str(x))()

Hope this helps,

Andreas



From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Sat Mar 23 14:24:32 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:24:32 GMT
Subject: Need help with plotting
Message-ID: <3c9cd61e.8124286@news>

I'm new to Python and doing pretty well with it so far. 
One thing that has me stumped is finding an "easy" way, 
or any way, for that matter, to plot simple graphs. I haven't
gotten into Tkinter yet and I'm not sure if there is another
way to make plots. I have scipy and Numeric and I can see 
that there are graphing modules there but I have not been 
able to access them with something like: from scipy import *.
This always fails with "not there" or "can't import."

I've tried to do my homework on this but can't find anything
that works for me. Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Bruce Robbins


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Tue Mar 19 23:49:51 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:49:51 +1100
Subject: bug tracking system
In-Reply-To: <20020320042748.24672.qmail@web10507.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020320042748.24672.qmail@web10507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200203200450.EAA00166@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:27, mohamed lazreg wrote:
> Dear pythoners,
>
> Are you aware of any free bug tracking system written
> in python?

http://roundup.sf.net/


    Richard



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 14 14:18:27 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:18:27 -0800
Subject: newbie-ish question on exec statement
References: <mailman.1015899200.14905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C90F783.96D0924D@ccvcorp.com>


Gabe Newcomb wrote:

> Hi all:
>         I'd appreciate any comments people might have on the limitations
> of using exec. Specifically, what I want to do is build function names
> dynamically and call them (don't ask why).

Okay, I won't ask why.  I'll just suggest another approach.  (Wanting to
dynamically select functions at runtime isn't odd or unusual; doing it with
exec is.)

Instead of calling function names via exec/eval(), build a dictionary of
function objects.

def my_func1(val1, val2 = "", val3 = ""):
    print "In func1"

def my_func2(val1, val2 = "", val3 = ""):
    print "In func2"

funcs = { "func1": my_func1, "func2": my_func2 }

funcname = raw_input("Which function to call?")
try:
    funcs[funcname](param)
except KeyError:
    print "No such function!"

You can dynamically add and remove functions from your dictionary, you can
test to see if they're present before trying to use them if you wish (with
the haskey() method), you can easily dynamically generate the funcname to
look for, and many other benefits, all without resorting to the mess of
using exec/eval().  (As a general rule of thumb, any time you're using exec
or eval(), there's probably an easier/cleaner/better way of doing whatever
it is you're doing.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 14 18:23:03 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 18:23:03 -0500
Subject: new to python - please help
References: <mailman.1015958843.31303.python-list@python.org> <837koen7mq.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <a6rbcn$ark$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <837koen7mq.fsf at panacea.canonical.org>,
Kragen Sitaker  <kragen at pobox.com> wrote:
>"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:
>>
>> Rule #1:  Post real code.
>> 
>> I can't make heads or tails of your post because all
>> that code is so broken.  :-/  It's got syntax errors.
>
>I feel like I just walked into comp.lang.perl.misc circa 1998.

There's a critical difference: how do you tell when Perl has a syntax
error?  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Mar 29 16:47:12 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 16:47:12 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a82nd0$8bp$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> s='abc'
>>>> import copy
>>>> s is copy.copy(s)
>1
>>>> s is copy.deepcopy(s)
>1
>>>> s is 'ab'+'c'
>0
>
>Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying. I
>suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
>differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'

Why do you care?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From cfelling at iae.nl  Thu Mar 28 17:48:37 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 23:48:37 +0100
Subject: mutliple search and replace
References: <mailman.1017263863.2060.python-list@python.org> <GpMo8.22098$EE4.72810@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <a806k5$5q4$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Trung Hoang <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
> hey Gustavo,

> actually i wished to do the replacement in one sweep and occuring in any
> order.. to avoid problems.. is it easy?

yes it is, use re.sub and remember the repl param to re.sub can be any
Python callable too, like:

    >>> import re
    >>> def OneSweep(replacements, txt):
    ...     def repl(match):
    ...         return replacements[match.group()]
    ...     matching = "|".join([re.escape(x) for x in replacements])
    ...     return re.sub(matching, repl, txt)
    ...
    >>> txt = "SPAM and eggs or spam and EGGS"
    >>> print OnesWeep({"SPAM": "spam", "spam": "SPAM"}, txt)
    spam and eggs or SPAM and EGGS
-- 
groetjes, carel


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 19:10:26 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:10:26 -0500
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <u94n0p932q6j12@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3C928D72.165A89C9@engcorp.com>

John Roth wrote:
> 
> Putting an icon on the desktop is a bit more difficult. AFIK, that
> has to go into the registry, and hacking the registry is not for the
> faint of heart, especially if you're doing it remotely. Everything
> else you said you want to do can be backed out manually,
> with a little effort.

Might not be the approved method, but you can just put a link
in c:\windows\desktop (preferably finding the windows folder
by referencing the proper win32api call first).  

-Peter


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 21 17:48:01 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:48:01 -0800
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com> <RD8m8.27456$e33.26506@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A6321.9953DC71@ccvcorp.com>


logistix wrote:

> Like Tim said, the module is getting reloaded but instances aren't getting
> re-instantiated.

No, because Dale explicitly deleted and recreated the specific instances in
question.  Actually, what Tim was saying is that it's the

from Wibblemodule import wibble

that's the problem.  Once this is done, reloading Wibblemodule will not change
what wibble is bound to.  Thus, calls to wibble() will still use the old
definition, regardless of how many times Wibblemodule is reloaded.  This is one
more reason that I dislike using 'from <module> import xxx', even when 'xxx' !=
'*'.

One possible fix/workaround, though also possibly a huge pain in the posterior,
is to simply change all references to wibble to use Wibblemodule.wibble.

Another thing that might work:

reload(Wibblemodule)
from Wibblemodule import wibble

By specifically re-importing wibble, this should (I think) re-bind the name to
the new version.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From nbecker at fred.net  Fri Mar  8 08:45:52 2002
From: nbecker at fred.net (N Becker)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 05:45:52 -0800
Subject: Turn string into function call
Message-ID: <1f5252d4.0203080545.3861adec@posting.google.com>

What's the best way to turn a string naming a function into a function call?

I used this:
eval (funcname + '()')


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 05:11:24 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:11:24 +0000
Subject: Aquisition Alert
References: <mailman.1014933902.6344.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aBR3HUAMP1f8EwD+@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

I thought we could just inherit, but if you say Acquisition is smarter I
guess I have to try and understand it.
-- 
Robin Becker


From parker at gol.com  Fri Mar 15 18:48:24 2002
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:48:24 GMT
Subject: 15 minute presentation on python?
References: <mailman.1016055022.11248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <LiIGdpGTMck8Ewr1@hiredata.gol.com>

In article <mailman.1016055022.11248.python-list at python.org>, Michael 
Chermside <mcherm at destiny.com> writes
>Ian Parker writes:
>> I wow'd my audience by using Python with the win32 extensions to show 
>>simple it was to load data (proxy server log files) into MS Excel.
>      [...]
>
>
>Congradulations! Glad it went so well. By the way, I'm doing a brief 
>Python presentation in a couple of weeks... would you be interested in 
>sharing your presentation?
>
>-- Michael Chermside
>   mcherm at destiny.com
>
>

Michael

I've sent you my notes, etc., on this by email.  hope it helps.

Regards

Ian
-- 
Ian Parker


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 19:14:39 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 00:14:39 GMT
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m@4ax.com> <slrna8nf4q.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <9okn8ucu390vhk8nfhvb98c3aqotm2dllu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6gstf$jo3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:59:33 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl <ws at mystrobl.de> wrote:

>Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:05:24 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
>
>>I would think that for an isolated app, .so's would slow down
>>load times.  With a statically linked program all you do is a
>>single memmap() call (well, ignoring a few details).  With
>>.so's you've actually got to resolve all of the symbols and do
>>the linking step (not required for statically linked images).
>
>Windows DLLs are already linked. 
>
Although it is possible totally to defer loading particular dll's.
E.g., consider what the VC++ debugger itself does, which doesn't know
what you want to do until you tell it.

You can set up automatic default loading or program controlled loading
in apps too, AFAIK.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From brueckd at tbye.com  Sat Mar  2 16:33:41 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:33:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hotmail
In-Reply-To: <200203020114.TAA76302@starbase.neosoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203021329400.19675-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Cameron Laird wrote:

> >> im just wondering whether it is possible to access hotmail thru python
> >> so that i have a far quicker way of checking my emails. can telnetlib
> >> do this?
> >
> >If you're on Windows (and have either ActiveState Python or Mark Hammond's
> >win32all extensions) then you can use COM to create a web browser instance
> >and use its DOM interface to navigate. I made a small script to retrieve
> >my address book this way - I'll try to dig it up and post it, but it's
> >pretty easy to do from scratch too.
> >
> >-Dave
>
> I'd like to see this.

I don't know what I did with the original version I wrote, so I
rewrote it. I don't know if I'm doing everything by the "officially
correct" methods, but it works great. Here you go:

'''
Example of using InternetExplorer COM/DOM interfaces to
retrieve your Hotmail address book.

Dave Brueck
'''

import win32com.client, time

def WaitForDoc(ie):
    'Return the document once it is loaded'
    while ie.Busy: time.sleep(0.1)
    doc = ie.Document
    while doc.readyState != 'complete': time.sleep(0.1)
    return doc

def ClickOn(ie, text):
    'Follow a link and return the resulting doc'
    for link in ie.Document.Links:
        if link.href.find(text) != -1:
            link.Click()
            break
    return WaitForDoc(ie)

# Start up a browser
ie = win32com.client.Dispatch('InternetExplorer.Application.1')
ie.Visible=0 # Change to 1 to see it in action
ie.Navigate('http://www.hotmail.com')
doc = WaitForDoc(ie)

# Fill in the username and password
doc.All('login').Value = 'USERNAME' # Insert your own here
doc.All('passwd').Value = 'PASSWORD' # Ditto
doc.Forms[0].Submit()

# Click on the Address Book link
doc = WaitForDoc(ie)
doc = ClickOn(ie, 'addresses')

# Find the correct table
doc = WaitForDoc(ie)
table = doc.getElementsByName('ListTable')[0]

# Extract the rows (spruce up as needed)
rows = table.rows
for i in range(rows.length):
    cells = rows[i].cells
    for j in range(cells.length):
        print cells[j].innerText, '|',
    print

# Logout
doc = ClickOn(ie, 'logout')
doc = WaitForDoc(ie)





From shredwheat at attbi.com  Thu Mar 28 12:11:04 2002
From: shredwheat at attbi.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:11:04 GMT
Subject: Image in a module question
References: <cc14131d.0203272259.3d724dc0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA2E042.2080307@attbi.com>

Christopher wrote:
> A while back, I remember somebody mentioning a way to store image data
> in a Python module.  This is something I think I could really use (I
> want to incorporate an image into an frozen exe that I am writing for
> my coworkers).  I would like to keep the installation nice and neat
> (--onefile) and I figure the easiest way is to store the image in a
> module, import it, then use the string (I am assuming this is what you
> would get from the module, I can't remember what the post sais) e.g.,

i've got a working tool that does this. although it uses pygame to load 
and display the image (could probably be switched to PIL without too 
much effort)

http://www.pygame.org/pcr/submissions/01142002b.html

this will create a .PY file with an image in it. the PY file even has a 
small "bootstrap" code so running the script will display the image. it 
properly handles things like palettes and colorkeys



From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 13 20:16:16 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:16 +1100
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <20020313154713.A30850@ActiveState.com>
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <200203132236.WAA11518@crown.off.ekorp.com> <20020313154713.A30850@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <200203140116.BAA01141@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:47, Trent Mick wrote:
> [Richard Jones wrote]
>
> > Have you investigated roundup recently? That is, since it was re-written
> > from scratch using the spec from the Software Carpentry project? Or are
> > you just making these statements based on several-year-old-knowledge?
>
> No I haven't looked at it recently. I was just giving my (FUD-y) experience
> of the Roundup pre-Software-Carpentry.

Yeah - a _lot_ has changed since then. This is yet another time that I regret 
not re-branding the tracker :(


 Can you attach files to issues/bugs
> in the new Roundup?

Yep - via the web or email interfaces.


    Richard



From tony at lsl.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 05:48:39 2002
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:48:39 -0000
Subject: Python UK - April 4th and 5th
In-Reply-To: <slrnaa12aq.h3n.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <005901c1d57c$f4745450$545aa8c0@lslp862.int.lsl.co.uk>

phil hunt wrote:
> Perhaps I'm being a little obtuse here, but why would I want to pay
> 260 quid to talk about Python? I can talk about it here for
> nothing.
>
> I guess this is something intended to be funded by the delegates'
> employers.

Well, my employer *is* paying me to go to one day of the conference -
but unfortunately, the first day, which is the day before the Python
bit. I am then paying for an additional day so I can go to the first day
of the *Python* conference (I can't spare more than two days away from
home, so that simplifies decision making).

Why bother?

Well, first off, it's nice to *meet* people with a common interest [1]_.
Broadcasting over an open medium like the Python list is nice enough
(and a tremendously useful resource), but people's written skills are
not necessarily terribly well related to their personal skills (for
instance), and meeting people can give a lot more "feel" for them than
just corresponding.

.. [1] and I get to stay with friends, which is an additional
   bonus - Duncan, do I have to promise not to talk Python
   at home?

Secondly, different people learn in different ways. It *can* be a
serious advantage to sit through a presentation, over just reading the
(essentially identical) text. And with a presentation, one can ask
questions! And it's quite hard to do a workshop online.

   (and I actually *want* to play at being an EJB instance
   - I think)

Thirdly, there's an element of potential serendipity at a conference
that one doesn't have in the more formalised environment of a list or
newsgroup. One can meet people by accident who apparently have nothing
to do with one's direct interests, but who still cast light on those
interests for reasons one could not have predicted. Or add new interests
(and this in turn means that there are actually advantages in Python
sharing space with another shared-set-of-interests).

And lastly, for some people, just the getting away can be a perk - being
in a different place, for different purposes.

(I guess it's also worth saying that 130pounds per day is pretty cheap
for a conference, especially one that has the calibre of people
attending that this one does, so no, it probably is *not*, on the whole,
intended only for people whose employers are paying.)

Tibs
--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
"I'm a little monster, short and stout
 Here's my horns and here's my snout
 When you come a calling, hear me shout
 I will ROAR and chase you out"
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)





From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Mar 14 07:03:02 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:03:02 +0100
Subject: Disabling rexec for ActiveScripting in Local Intranet Zone?
Message-ID: <a6q3hf$2br$1@nixe.ISAR.net>

When you do Client-Side ActiveScripting in Python, you cannot create 
win32com objects. If my understanding is correct, this is caused by rexec() 
limiting what you can do, for security reasons. However, over Client-Side 
Scripting languages such as JScript and VBScript allow you to create 
ActiveX objects, if IEs security settings allow that. Is there some trick 
to allow using ActiveX objects (if security is "properly" configured) for 
the local zone?

The situation is this. I have a C++ written ActiveX object for scripting 
webpages that controls some kind of hardware. I want to be able to write 
test scripts in python, and not in Javascript. Test scripts that are run 
from the command line work just fine, only IE scripts don't, because of  
said limitations. Currently, I have to stick with Javascript for sample 
codes, which is (not surprisingly) a PITA. 







From rupert.kolb at med.uni-tuebingen.de  Mon Mar 11 05:57:37 2002
From: rupert.kolb at med.uni-tuebingen.de (Rupert Kolb)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:57:37 +0100
Subject: Homepage of Gadfly not available?
Message-ID: <3C8C8DA1.5040901@med.uni-tuebingen.de>

Hi,

for weeks, I'm trying to reach the home page of the Gadfly DB.
   http://www.chordate.com/gadfly.html doesn't work.
Is this my fault?

-- 
Rupert Kolb




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 26 16:48:07 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 21:48:07 GMT
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
References: <mailman.1017158983.15265.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7qqan$ndd$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:07:09 -0800 (PST), "Sean 'Shaleh' Perry" <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:

>
>On 26-Mar-2002 m2 at plusseven.com wrote:
>> 
>> Just out curiosity, 
>> why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
>> 
>> def fact1(n):
>>     return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
>> 
>> def fact2(n):
>>     result = n * 1L
>>     for i in range(1 , n):
>>         result *= i
>>     return result
>> 
>
>bigger problem here.  fact2 returns a long, fact1 returns an integer.  So
>fact1(100) fails.
>
Looking at '1L' in the range part of that, I was wondering how that
would work. Well,

 >>> range(1L,2L)
 [1]
 >>> type(range(1L,2L)[0])
 <type 'int'>

so I guess L's get demoted. I was a little surprised that
range hasn't gotten the benefit of integer overflow handling
to promote to longs in 2.2:

 >>> range(1L<<33,(1L<<33)+2L)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int

One thing leads to another: bitshift doesn't promote either.
I guess I understand good reasons for this, but it makes the
platform in/dependence of integer a bit blurry.

 >>> '%10x' % (15<<30)
 '  c0000000'
 >>> '%10x' % (15L<<30)
 ' 3c0000000'
 >>> '%10x' % (15*2**30)
 ' 3c0000000'

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From herrn at gmx.net  Wed Mar  6 10:25:45 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:25:45 +0100
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
In-Reply-To: <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020306152545.GA2369@lurkabove.darkstar>

Hi Bertrand,

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 03:07:53AM -0800, Bertrand Geston wrote:
> If I understand your question correctly, you can do it like in java:
> 
> >>> class Spam:
> ...  def sayYesBut(self, caller):
> ...   print "Yes %s, but I'm %s !" % (caller, self)
> ...
> >>> class Egg:
> ...  def __init__(self):
> ...   self.spam = Spam()
> ...  def saySomething(self):
> ...   self.spam.sayYesBut(self)
> ...
> >>> egg = Egg()
> >>> egg.saySomething()

Yes, that was the thing I was serching for. 
So it does have something to do with the 'self' statement. This
statement is not a reserved word, so I have to implement it by myself by
giving it as a parameter to the __init__() method. Am I right there?

> - 'self' is used in Python in place of 'this' in java
> - 'self' is mandatory (no implicit reference to the instance)
> - 'self' is not a reserved word but a **STRONG** naming convention for the
> first argument of every method that always refer to the instance

hmm, do I have to implement that in _every_ method or just in
methods who use the 'self' statement?
I know, the methods work without self, but what is the convention?

> 
> PS. Here is a way to do it magically. It comes from the excellent post 'Get
> reference to "owner"' from ... yesterday ! This is powerfull and funny but
> IMHO it hurts good principles of design.

What does it hurt? It looks good to me. It is just the same as above and
I think that is really good.

[snip]
> ...  def sayNo(self):
> ...   caller = sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self']
this is the only line, that looks a bit ugly. It actually does the same
as when giving caller as parameter. So what can be a reason to implement
it this way? It looks much less readable to me. And I have to say I not
even understand it fully....

So many thanks for your help

Bye
Marco

-- 
If you didn't have to work so hard, you'd have more time to be depressed.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From lac at strakt.com  Thu Mar 21 12:37:08 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:37:08 +0100
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python] 
In-Reply-To: Message from Steven Majewski <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU> 
   of "Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:21:37 EST." <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> 
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> 
Message-ID: <200203211737.g2LHb8rq003324@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> ( Or maybe this begs for a Slashdot like system to
> distribute the review, grading and selection of projects. )
> 
> 
> -- Steve

You want something more like the scientific reviewing of a technical
paper than slashdot's 'all you need to vote is a pulse'.  Otherwise
the most popular wrong way to do something will generate the highest
marks.  This is a very hard thing to do politically -- there is a
tightrope between the sort of eletism which exists to keep a lid
on new, good, creative endeavours (a flaw you can correct by inserting 
more democracy into your process)and pandering to the worst base 
instincts of humanity (a flaw you can correct by having higher standards
in your selection committee).  The best way to do this is to provide
a certain amount of meta-data with your assessment -- so we can
find out not only that Steven Majewski thinks that XXX is cool, but
also that Steven Majewski has a reputation around here, and most
people think that Steven Majewski's opinion of something is valuable.

This doesn't stop Flaming Rabid Hamster from voting that Steven
Majewski is a fool and that every project that Steven Majerski finds
valuable is worthless, but if this is an minority opinion of 1, then
people will know where to place their bets.  Not only does this work
when evaluating the worthless and the vital, but it is even more
important when evaluating people and things that are in the middle.
Some people know a huge amount about a few subjects but also shoot
their mouths off about things they don't know anything about.  Some
pieces of code are terrific solutions for extremely hairy nasty
problems -- but the real fix is not to have the problem in the first
place.  Some people will blast the code when they should be blasting
the problem, and valuable workarounds can get lost in the 'Get a Real
Operating System' votes.  Some solutions are excellent -- provided
you don't have <too little memory, too many objects ...>  It would
be nice to be able to indicate this as well.

I think that this sort of metadata belongs in the sort of
cataloging system we should have to implement PEP 262, as well.
Of course, I am biased -- AB Strakt is building something to do
this, because we think that its a huge world problem that needs
fixing.

Laura Creighton




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 15 00:00:43 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:00:43 -0500
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org> <ISti8.89159$aFN.65869@news1.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <3C917FFB.25CA13A9@engcorp.com>

"Qiang.JL" wrote:
> 
> Do you guys not agree to master C/C++, a large amount of time will be
> required (somewhere on the net i saw it's appro 3-4 years.  whew!!)
[...]
> and one more question,  what's you view of "you have mastered a language" ?
> knowing syntax and grammer is the begining to master, then know how to use
> them(wisely) and  coding coding ... after certain long time , that you call
> you master the language? 

Don't treat C and C++ together like that.  It would *not* take
three to four years to master C, although I suppose it might
take that long (or longer :-) to "master" C++.

As far as the definition of "master", I find that with any language
that is similar to another language I know in basic style (e.g. having
learned things like Pascal and C++, Delphi seemed quite similar) I
can "master" it in a week or two if I'm actually using it.  With C, 
you need to know that there is no I/O built in to the language, 
pointers are key, structs are the most complicated data type you 
can get, and assignment statements are expressions.  Probably a half dozen 
other little tidbits.  Nothing that hard.  C++ is another story of course.

-Peter


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 15 11:57:58 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:57:58 -0600
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
In-Reply-To: <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]>
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>
        <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
        <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]>
Message-ID: <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Rich> I don't really need select to block.  I just want it to be
    Rich> accurate.  If it returns a file object in the list of things which
    Rich> are available, why should then readline() block on it?

Remember that select() is lower level than readline().  As someone else
pointed out, select() may return because there is data available, but it
makes no promises about what that data is.  Calling readline() may then hang
waiting for other conditions (presence of a newline in the input, for
example).

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 28 09:58:33 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:58:33 -0600
Subject: Very small zlib/svg problem
In-Reply-To: <20020328153415.D11101@phd.pp.ru>
References: <a7te9u$kah$1@news.hccnet.nl>
        <15522.19213.655102.927935@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
        <20020328153415.D11101@phd.pp.ru>
Message-ID: <15523.12185.915711.200047@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

Oleg wrote:

    f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "w")
                   ^^ this suggests to use binary modes for binary files:
    f = gzip.open("c:/test.svgz", "wb")

Patch submitted to force 'b'.  Feel free to check it out and comment.  In
particular, since I don't run on Windows I can't really test it out where it
matters.

    http://python.org/sf/536278

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar 22 06:47:16 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:16 GMT
Subject: 2.2.1c1 platform experiences
Message-ID: <ueliczuqa.fsf@python.net>

I've attempted to summarise the reports of people using 2.2.1c1 on
various platforms here:

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/221c1-reports.txt

Can people fill in gaps, confirm/deny rumours, dig into the mentioned
problems?

It might be best to email me rather than posting to the group, but
I'll see it either way.

TIA,
M.

-- 
  SPIDER:  'Scuse me. [scuttles off]
  ZAPHOD:  One huge spider.
    FORD:  Polite though.
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 11


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  2 00:42:49 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:42:49 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203011951001.1238-100000@mars.localdomain>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELMOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Huaiyu Zhu]
> There appears to be a serious bug in Python 2.2 that severely limits its
> usefulness for numerical computation:
>
> # Python 1.5.2 - 2.1
>
> >>> 1e200**2
> inf

A platform-dependent accident, there.

> >>> 1e-200**2
> 0.0
>
> # Python 2.2
>
> >>> 1e-200**2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

That one is surprising and definitely not intended:  it suggests your
platform libm is setting errno to ERANGE for pow(1e-200, 2.0), or that your
platform C headers define INFINITY but incorrectly, or that your platform C
headers define HUGE_VAL but incorrectly, or that your platform C compiler
generates bad code, or optimizes incorrectly, for negating and/or comparing
against its definition of HUGE_VAL or INFINITY.  Python intends silent
underflow to 0 in this case, and I haven't heard of underflows raising
OverflowError before.  Please file a bug report with full details about
which operating system, Python version, compiler and C libraries you're
using (then it's going to take a wizard with access to all that stuff to
trace into it and determine the true cause).

> >>> 1e200**2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

That one is intended; see

http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=496104

for discussion.

> This produces the following serious effects: after hours of numerical
> computation, just as the error is converging to zero, the whole thing
> suddenly unravels.

It depends on how you write your code, of course.

> Note that try/except is completely useless for this purpose.

Ditto.  If your platform C lets you get away with it, you may still be able
to get an infinity out of 1e200 * 1e200.

> I hope this is unintended behavior

Half intended, half both unintended and never before reported.

> and that there is an easy fix.

Sorry, "no" to either.




From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sun Mar 24 13:08:50 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 24 Mar 2002 20:08:50 +0200
Subject: 2.2.1c1 platform experiences
References: <ueliczuqa.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <3c9e2442@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> I've attempted to summarise the reports of people using 2.2.1c1 on
> various platforms here:

Speaking of foreign or unusual platforms... does anyone have
a reliable build-script for building python on arm-linux ?

Yours,

:M:



From graz at mindless.com  Sat Mar  9 05:42:04 2002
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:42:04 +0000
Subject: Q: How can I lock a file in Windows?
References: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <XBli8.5326$OP.143152@stones>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:06:08 +0000, A.Newby wrote:

> Is there another way I can lock the file in Windows?

Yes. Try this:

  http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203

-- 
Graham


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar 29 18:14:28 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:14:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: IOError on file close
In-Reply-To: <ua9sfc1ighfi36@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020329151428.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> That indeed appears to be the case, but it looks like a bug in the 
> kernel to me.
> 

why? /proc/scsi/scsi is clearly marked 444 on my machine, not 644.



From jiba at tuxfamily.org  Wed Mar 27 15:07:31 2002
From: jiba at tuxfamily.org (Lamy Jean-Baptiste)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:07:31 +0100
Subject: Q: Sound production with python?
References: <Xns91D77C5869670AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <20020327.210717.1542632526.2886@localhost.localdomain>

Dans l'article <Xns91D77C5869670AusYourStandingInIt at 130.133.1.4>,
"A.Newby" <deathtospam43423 at altavista.com> a ?crit :

> Being a beginner fiddle player, as well as a beginner python programmer,
> I want to write a little prog that trains the sense of pitch.
> 
> How envisage it working is thus...
> 
> It plays a simple 4 note melody, then repeats the melody with one of the
> notes (selected randomly) slightly off pitch ... say by 20% or 10% or
> 5%. The user then has to detect which note was off.
> 
> What modules and commands should I use to generate this sounds? What's
> the best way to go about it?

I am currently writing GTablature, a tablature editor for Gnome and it
include a MIDI-file generation module (song.py). You can use it to
generate to generate MIDI file, and then play them with an external app.

Get it at :

http://oomadness.tuxfamily.org/gtablature/en

Jiba


From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Thu Mar  7 12:58:07 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:58:07 +0100
Subject: hotmail
References: <mailman.1015102571.6690.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a689ml$cbf9b$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

Seems to be magic, thanks for the question and for the response. Really
interesting.
I would like to retrieve mails from Hotmail and I wonder if it is not
'better' to use COM/DOM on Outlook express that can, if I am not mistaken,
retrieve mails from Hotmail using http requests. By 'better', I mean less
linked to the hotmail site layout (but OK linked to the Oultook DOM
interface) and probably quicker.

Any thought, idea, code snippets ?

TIA.

B.

<brueckd at tbye.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015102571.6690.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Cameron Laird wrote:
>
> > >> im just wondering whether it is possible to access hotmail thru
python
> > >> so that i have a far quicker way of checking my emails. can telnetlib
> > >> do this?
> > >
> > >If you're on Windows (and have either ActiveState Python or Mark
Hammond's
> > >win32all extensions) then you can use COM to create a web browser
instance
> > >and use its DOM interface to navigate. I made a small script to
retrieve
> > >my address book this way - I'll try to dig it up and post it, but it's
> > >pretty easy to do from scratch too.
> > >
> > >-Dave
> >
> > I'd like to see this.
>
> I don't know what I did with the original version I wrote, so I
> rewrote it. I don't know if I'm doing everything by the "officially
> correct" methods, but it works great. Here you go:
>
> '''
> Example of using InternetExplorer COM/DOM interfaces to
> retrieve your Hotmail address book.
>
> Dave Brueck
> '''
>
> import win32com.client, time
>
> def WaitForDoc(ie):
>     'Return the document once it is loaded'
>     while ie.Busy: time.sleep(0.1)
>     doc = ie.Document
>     while doc.readyState != 'complete': time.sleep(0.1)
>     return doc
>
> def ClickOn(ie, text):
>     'Follow a link and return the resulting doc'
>     for link in ie.Document.Links:
>         if link.href.find(text) != -1:
>             link.Click()
>             break
>     return WaitForDoc(ie)
>
> # Start up a browser
> ie = win32com.client.Dispatch('InternetExplorer.Application.1')
> ie.Visible=0 # Change to 1 to see it in action
> ie.Navigate('http://www.hotmail.com')
> doc = WaitForDoc(ie)
>
> # Fill in the username and password
> doc.All('login').Value = 'USERNAME' # Insert your own here
> doc.All('passwd').Value = 'PASSWORD' # Ditto
> doc.Forms[0].Submit()
>
> # Click on the Address Book link
> doc = WaitForDoc(ie)
> doc = ClickOn(ie, 'addresses')
>
> # Find the correct table
> doc = WaitForDoc(ie)
> table = doc.getElementsByName('ListTable')[0]
>
> # Extract the rows (spruce up as needed)
> rows = table.rows
> for i in range(rows.length):
>     cells = rows[i].cells
>     for j in range(cells.length):
>         print cells[j].innerText, '|',
>     print
>
> # Logout
> doc = ClickOn(ie, 'logout')
> doc = WaitForDoc(ie)
>
>
>




From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 11:27:02 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:27:02 +0200
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <mailman.1017557628.22081.python-list@python.org> <a877p1$sns$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020331112707.353$Hl@news.newsreader.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> escribi? en el mensaje
> ....
> Pmw does, but that's the only one.  Sorry for not making clear that I
> was specifically referring to 3rd-party extensions.

I'd think win32all may apply then.
But you said OSCON, so.... ;-)

Regards,
-Hernan






From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar  3 15:16:06 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:16:06 GMT
Subject: Can't seem to get it right: Win NT registry save and load
References: <d7d5ebdf.0203010908.113324ea@posting.google.com> <0aag8.8540$va.1091@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <d7d5ebdf.0203030726.49e10001@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <awvg8.4576$766.4483@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>

Yeah, to do that in Python, you need to use RegOpenKey, and then crawl
through the keys and values with RegEnumKeyEx and RegEnumValue and then
Recursively crawl through all the subkeys you grabbed from RegEnumKeyEx

or (the easier, but not totally pythonic way):

distribute reg.exe with the source and use:
    os.popen("REG /EXPORT HKLM\Software\Classes filename.reg") # to make reg
file
and
    os.popen("REG /IMPORT filename.reg") # to apply to other machines.
--
-

"Matthias Janes" <matthias_j at lycos.com> wrote in message
news:d7d5ebdf.0203030726.49e10001 at posting.google.com...
> Thank's alot - you pushed me in the right way - I actually do not
> realy need to save whole hiv but just a few keys.
>
> Thanks - I thought this could work somehow like regedit's export
> import feature
> but properly it's not realy what I need.




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar  4 23:30:15 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:30:15 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015287849.16661.python-list@python.org> <3C8445FC.A1816810@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <eppstein-395DC7.20301504032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C8445FC.A1816810 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>,
 Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> So it seems that the following would work:
> 
>   for_stmt: 'for' (exprlist 'in' testlist 
>       | exprlist lt_op exprlist lt_op exprlist
>       | exprlist gt_op exprlist gt_op exprlist) ':' suite ['else' ':'
> suite]
> 
>   lt_op: '<' | '<='
>   gt_op: '>' | '>='

Yes, I have something much like this in the draft PEP I am working on.  
But the outer expressions should be or_expr to respect Python's 
precedence rules, and the inner one should be identifier.

> Later phases of the compiler would be responsible for checking
> that the exprlists in the new parts actually contain only one
> item each, and that the middle one is a variable.

Checking that the outer expressions contain one item rather than a tuple 
needs to be done at run time.  Of course, the compiler can catch some 
instances where the expression is obviously non-single.


From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar  7 04:35:05 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:35:05 GMT
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
References: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com> <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706@ruti.visi.com> <a678ud$30dv$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <ueliw4t0q.fsf@python.net>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) writes:

>  O.K. so what can I do for asynchronous I/O notification on 
>  regular files?  How can I efficiently block and wake up when
>  I/O is available on any of my file descriptors?  
> 
>  Don't tell me I have to go into a sleep and poll stat() or
>  seek() loop!  It's hard to imagine that UNIX got this far 
>  without offering a better solution than that!

OK, I won't tell you that.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
3. Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 22 19:17:19 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:17:19 -0800
Subject: Copmlex structures....
References: <iUMm8.141$%52.3298@jekyl.ab.tac.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BC98E.CB114614@ccvcorp.com>


"Dmitry S. Makovey" wrote:

> 01. >>> f={}
> 02. >>> f['name']='dimon'
> 03. >>> f['age']=20
> 04. >>> a=[]
> 05. >>> a.append(f)
> 06. >>> print a
> 07. [{'age': 20, 'name': 'dimon'}]
> 08. >>> f['age']=22
> 09. >>> print a
> 10. [{'age': 22, 'name': 'dimon'}]
>
> I don't like result in the last like I've expected to have [{'age': 20,
> 'name': 'dimon'}], how could i do this?
>
> I know that it must be as simple as using something like b[:], but what?

When you append f to your list, you end up having *two* references to the same
dictionary -- one of those references is f, and the other is a[0] -- but they
both point to the *same* dictionary, meaning that changing it in one place
affects it regardless of which way you access it.  It's like you've given it a
nickname.

What you need to do, is add a *copy* of the dictionary to your list.

import copy
a.append( copy.copy(f) )

Now, the dictionary referred to by a[0] is independent of the dictionary
pointed to by f, and you can change f without affecting the one at a[0].

There might be a slight complication if you have a mutable object (like a list
or a class instance) as one of f's values, because f and f's copy will have
references to a single copy of that object.  (Same problem, one layer deeper.)
This can be solved by using copy.deepcopy() instead of copy.copy(), which
should recursively copy all of its argument's contents.

Hope that helps...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 08:47:33 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:47:33 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:57:39 EST."
             <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> 
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>  
            <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> 
Message-ID: <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

[David Abrahams]
>       6) Should we eventually remove the inheritance relationship
>          between Int and Bool?
> 
> I hope so. Bool is-a Int doesn't seem like the right relationship to
> me, unless perhaps we make Int is-a Long... naah, not even then.

Hm.  In your favorite language bool is one of the integral types.
Doesn't that imply pretty much the same thing?

Anyway, do you have a use case where it matters?

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 13:36:46 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:36:46 +0000
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
References: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <a608p5$anptk$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <ovyb8IA+67g8Ew+a@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <a608p5$anptk$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller
<theller at python.net> writes
>"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:Uu$EsXAKB6g8Ew
>Jf at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
>> Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
>> default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
>> without drowning.
>
>2 ways AFAIK:
>1. Install 2.2, then 2.1.2 *again*
>

I guess that's the easiest way

>2. Install 2.2, then change the file associations to use 2.1.2.
>
>Thomas
>
>

-fumbling about in the dark-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From donnal at donnal.net  Tue Mar 12 13:52:31 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 10:52:31 -0800
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0203121052.4e3a91c7@posting.google.com>

drevenhaug at hotmail.com (Graz Bukanoff) wrote in message news:<f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c at posting.google.com>...
> Is Python an object based programming langauge?

I am a programmer by avocation only, not by profession or training, so
you'll have to take this with a grain of salt. But I first started
using object-oriented techniques nearly twenty years ago, implementing
Object-Oriented Forth from Dick Pountain's book by the same name.

I am currently working on a project in which I consider
object-oriented principles (such as encapsulation and inheritance) to
be crucial. Previously I tried to undertake this project in Visual
Basic, Java with AWT, Eiffel, and Java with Swing in that order. I
have accomplished more with Python and wxPython in six months than I
did in six years with the other development environments. Does that
make Python object-based or object-oriented? I don't know, but I know
that I am happy with Python.

Donnal Walter, M.D., Ph.D.
Arkansas Children's Hospital


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 20:55:17 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:55:17 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <slrnaa3hrh.183.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA3AA98.2F94398B@activestate.com> <mailman.1017359704.31275.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa7ic5.ehu.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:42:10 -0800, Cliff Wells <logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:43:20 -0800
>David Ascher wrote:
>> May I suggest that you instead do:
>> 
>> >>> class MyClass:
>> ...     def do_this(self):
>> ...             "this function would do this"
>> ...     def do_that(self):
>> ...             "while this function would do that"
>> ...
>> >>>
>> 
>> and use the docstrings as a placeholder for the actions of the function
>> -- typically something that's foremost in your mind when you're
>> pseudocoding, and it counts as a statement as far as the parser's
>> concerned (hence is syntactically valid), and at the same time, you've
>> already got docstrings ready for  you when you start to implement.
>
>Phil is trying to avoid having to backspace 4 times to delete a pass
>statement.  Why the hell would he want to type in an entire docstring???

Why would I want to write documentation anyway? :-)

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 11:06:39 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:06:39 -0000
Subject: cgi xmlrpc anyone?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCDFD@intrepid>

> From:	Robin Becker [SMTP:robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk]
> Has anyone got a cgi version of an xmlrpc server? By that I mean a cgi
> script which simulates being an xmlrpc server. We are allowed to do cgi
> by our ISP, but not to run long running processes or to start up our own
> servers etc.
 
Robin,
The effbot is running one, I think - <http://effbot.org/rpc/index.htm>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From matt at mondoinfo.com  Fri Mar  1 15:51:46 2002
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:51:46 GMT
Subject: Ping
References: <a5od3d$9gc$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <CRRf8.9669$N7.1805234@ruti.visi.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:21:13 +0100, Riss Nicolas
<alien275 at libertysurf.fr> wrote:

>Bonjour,

Bonjour!

>on ma dit que je pouvais ?crire en francais alors j'?crit en
>francais.

Of course it's reasonable to write in French here. I hope you will
forgive me for replying in English because my French is sufficient for
reading but rarely for writing.

>Je voudrais pouvoir v?rifier toutes les 5 min que une machine ping
>une autre machine et si elle ne ping pas qu'elle execute un
>script. Comment faut il faire avec python pour pinger une machine et
>v?rifier qu'elle r?pond??

Jeremy Hylton has Python code to do ping and traceroute at:

http://www.python.org/~jeremy/python.html

and my ping.py is at:

ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/mdc/ping.py

In order to open the raw socket that's necessary to send a ping,
you'll need root authority under Unix and I don't think it's possible
at all under Windows 9X. You might find it simpler or safer to use
os.popen() to run your system's ping and parse its output.

Andrae Muys points out in (wrapped for line length):

http://groups.google.com/groups?
  selm=7934d084.0201081621.177c1c8e%40posting.google.com

that it may also be possible to use an ordinary socket to connect to
an ordinary port on the second machine and interpret any error message
you get. You might have to experiment some to see what result was
"normal" and what results represented errors.

A bientot,
Matt


From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 26 03:49:42 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:49:42 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <20020325155430.A27495@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEMNOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Neil Schemenauer]
> PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code

No problem, Neil!  He had already projected both the depth and sincerity of
your sorrow to six significant digits, and seemed quite pleased that doing
so didn't exhaust his supply of available zeroes.  He's off factoring primes
again (I think he's on to something humans may have missed), so all is well.




From gcordova at hebmex.com  Wed Mar 27 10:57:20 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:57:20 -0600
Subject: menu.add_command options
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689E1@SRM201002>

> 
> Tkinter:
> In the line:
> 
> file_menu.add_command(label='Load Form', underline=0,
> command=self.open_file)
> 
> Does anyone have a list of options that go with the 
> menu.add_command?  I
> need to pass the frame to the method open_file, but I don't 
> know how to
> pass that as an argument.  The book I have Python and Tkinter
> programming just says "options..."  While I am all for a good mystery,
> it is somewhat disheartening to find in a $50+ book.  
> 

Ahhh, Ye Eternal Callback Questions....

:-)

THE most flexible solution I've ever used, involves
using a callback class, where there's a __call__ method
defined. That way, you create objects which can be
called, just like functions.

The nices part is that objects can carry around stuff
which you can later apply during that invocation of
the __call__ method.

A simple class like this is enough for your purposes (maybe):

class Callback:
    def __init__(self, function, *args, **kwargs):
        self.default_args = args
        self.default_kwargs = kwargs
        self.function = function
    def __call__(self, *more_args, **more_kwargs):
        # Create an updated argument tuple and kw-args dictionary.
        more_args = self.default_args + more_args
        more_kwargs.update(self.default_kwargs)

        # And call the function with all this stuff.
        self.function(*more_args, **more_kwargs)

        # If you're not using 2.x, then:
        # apply(self.function, more_args, more_kwargs)

So now, you can:

file_menu.add_command(label='Load Form',
                      underline=0,
                      command=Callback(self.open_file, FrameName, etc))

When the menu is invoked, the __call__ method of the object
you passed as argument for "command=" above is called,
which does the little mambo of calling the function you defined,
with the default parameters you defined.

Nice, eh?

-gustavo



From jonathan at onegoodidea.com  Thu Mar  7 04:26:04 2002
From: jonathan at onegoodidea.com (Jonathan Hogg)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:26:04 +0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <B8ACE2AC.5F91%jonathan@onegoodidea.com>

On 6/3/2002 16:41, in article
eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002 at news.service.uci.edu, "David Eppstein"
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>   One of the most common uses of for-loops in Python is to iterate
>   over an interval of integers. [...]

Is it that common?

I did a quick grep over the 2.2 library and found that around 10% of for
loops used range. Of course, the library is pretty unrepresentative code
since, by design, it contains all the stuff you *wouldn't* want to do
yourself.

I did the same grep over the random Python code in my projects directory and
found that 3% of my for loops use range. This was 12 ranges out of 408 loops
in about 18,000 lines of code.

12 times in the last 18,000 lines of code I've had to loop over a range.

Am I unusual in saying that I really don't care?

>   The perceived lack of a natural, intuitive integer iteration
>   syntax has led to heated debate on python-list, and spawned at
>   least four PEPs before this one. [...]

I keep getting the feeling that the "perceived lack" is from people who's
perception is skewed by other languages. To a new programmer, teaching them
that 'for' iterates over sequences and that 'range' makes sequences of
integers is pretty easy (and yes, I used to teach). The problem only seems
to be with programmers in other languages lamenting the lack of the BASIC,
C, or whatever loop structures.

If you're already a programmer then it shouldn't be that hard for you to
adapt. If it is, then you were badly taught ;-)

Jonathan



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 18:35:39 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:35:39 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <mailman.1017438528.28926.python-list@python.org> <%l6p8.157527$2q2.12783856@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <fT6p8.121930$7b.11162784@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

> or "c:/data/dict.txt" , which is both clear and safe.  However, I
> believe \d == d.

Typo.  I meant, \d == \d and not a control char like \a, \b, etc.





From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Mar 13 09:24:10 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:24:10 +0000
Subject: Tkinter: memory loss for tag bindings in Canvas
Message-ID: <a6njm0$c8k$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi all,

We've noticed a memory problem when doing multiple item deletion, 
(re)creations and tag bindings in Tkinter canvases. When monitoring the 
occupied memory of the following code:

--------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()
c = Canvas(root)
c.pack(side=TOP)

def p(event): print 'beans'

def foo():
  for i in range(1000):
    c.delete(ALL)
    tId = c.create_text(100, 100, text='spam')
    c.tag_bind(tId, "<Button-1>", p)

Button(root, text="Go", command=foo).pack(side=BOTTOM)

root.mainloop()
--------------------

we saw that every time we clicked on the "Go" button, the memory taken by 
the program significantly increased. Quite obviously, it shouldn't: the end 
state is exactly the same than the start state. Removing the "c.tag_bind" 
line solves the problem. This happens on Win2K, Linux (Mandrake 8.0) and 
Solaris 2.7.

The same program written in tcl/tk doesn't result in memory loss, and 
deleting the bindings with

    for item in c.find_all():
      for seq in c.tag_bind(item):
        c.tag_unbind(item, seq)

at the beginning of the "foo" function doesn't help.

I've looked into the Tkinter module and found that a new tcl command is 
being created for each binding. My guess is that for some reason, this 
command doesn't get properly deleted when the item is deleted or the 
binding destroyed.

Does anybody has a solution or workaround for this problem?

TIA
 - eric -



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar  4 19:58:52 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:58:52 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical
 computation?
In-Reply-To: <7xy9h8pt9x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEFHOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Paul Rubin]
> I get the OverflowError under Red Hat 7.2 with the default Python 2.2
> build, which appears to not use -lieee.  The configure script's
> test for __fpu_control in -lieee appears to never be run when
> you type "configure".  I manually put "-lieee" into the LIBS=...
> line in the makefile and rebuilt.  Now I get:
>
>     [phr at localhost Python-2-2]$ ./python
>     Python 2.2 (#2, Mar  4 2002, 01:31:37)
>     [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
>     Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>     >>> 1e-200**2
>     0.0
>
> so the behavior changes with -lieee.

Cool!  Thanks for the info.  It's been recorded as a comment attached to

<http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=105470&aid=525705&group_id=5470>

>> Unfortunately, the C standard (neither one) isn't a lick of help here --
>> error reporting from C math functions is a x-platform crapshoot.

> That seems to me to be a deficiency in the C standard--IEEE 754
> defines these different error modes because they're all important, and
> any high level language that claims to be good for serious numerics
> should give precise control over the error modes.

I don't know of any high level language that does in a portable way.  If
vendors choose to implement the optional 754 gimmicks in C99, then such
vendors' C99 implementations will come close.  Short of that, you have to
dig thru your favorite language+vendor+platform combo's extensions.




From damononnews at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  4 20:10:53 2002
From: damononnews at hotmail.com (Damon Lynch)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 17:10:53 -0800
Subject: Black Adder and PyQt
References: <a5415304.0203010614.49e6c4d0@posting.google.com> <3C80B1E3.575761B7@river-bank.demon.co.uk> <mailman.1015085345.6196.python-list@python.org> <Xns91C68AFA9D232andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.104>
Message-ID: <a7d71b8.0203041710.6ea4cf9@posting.google.com>

Andrew Brown <killspam at darwinwars.com> wrote in message  
> Yes, but _when_ will the final version be released?

I'm not sure about the final, but the next beta is quite close.  It is
still being developed.  Are you on the blackadder mailing list?

Damon


From bosahv at netscapenospam.net  Sat Mar  9 12:41:03 2002
From: bosahv at netscapenospam.net (Bo Vandenberg)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:41:03 GMT
Subject: pyperl -- Arrays to Lists? ...Tuples?
References: <mailman.1015288215.20818.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <POri8.59514$xG.24180@news2.bloor.is>

I think its most considerate to share a solution with the rest of the
newsgroup. Many people who bring unique questions might find the answer
themselves or somewhere other than the newsgroup.

Speaking, mostly as a lurker, I appreciate you taking the time to bring back
the solution you found.

thanks.




From furballphat at despammed.com  Sat Mar 30 12:27:54 2002
From: furballphat at despammed.com (Adam C.)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 09:27:54 -0800
Subject: piddle on xdarwin
Message-ID: <a73b2202.0203300927.34475f43@posting.google.com>

I recently got a copy of fink, xdarwin, python etc.  It all works
beautifully, but now I want to stop printing prime numbers to the
stdout and actually draw things.  I downloaded a copy of piddle and
installed it.  It installed fine and the modules can be imported etc. 
Unfortunately, when I run the test files nothing happens.  There is no
error, but no window pops up either.  I have tried this with several
back ends, but none work.  Does anyone have any advice?


From junkster at rochester.rr.com  Sun Mar 17 16:56:15 2002
From: junkster at rochester.rr.com (Benjamin Schollnick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:56:15 GMT
Subject: Eliminate Spam Now... >g< Python w/DNS/&POP3
Message-ID: <junkster-2D9783.16561617032002@typhoon4-3.nyroc.rr.com>

Folks,

   I'm running into a slight problem...

   I'm attempting to use the (py)DNSlib (sourceforge project), to look 
up Spammers via ORBZ (or similiar group)...

   And I'm able to pull up the DNS information, but every entry I try 
response with a valid root level DNS entry....  Can anyone enlighten me 
regarding the operations of the black hole lists?  I can't seem to find 
any of the sights that explain the actual functionality.

   (I've tried reversing the octets [i.e. 13.175.214.14 == 
14.214.175.13], with no luck)

            = Benjamin


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Fri Mar 29 08:26:07 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 13:26:07 GMT
Subject: win32com client and McMillan installer 5.3b1
References: <FVWo8.9$ta.1379@nreader3.kpnqwest.net> <uUXo8.12$zl6.1504@nreader2.kpnqwest.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91E055DB3423gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>

[posted and mailed]

Francis Meyvis wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I found a miserable work around.
> The pythoncom16.dll is somewhere under the WINNT.
> I copied this as pythoncom.dll and the thing now works.

You should *not* rename it (pure Python can import
it, but C code won't be able to). Of course, you
shouldn't have to do anything.
 
[from earlier msg]

>> I've a bunch of python scripts that I'd like to convert into and exe.
>> This works well with the McMillan Installer except the script that
>> uses the win32com client stuff to access worksheets in an excell
>> document. From the traceback I see that there's an import error:
>> "No module named pythoncom"
>>
>> I tried it with McMillan installer 5.3b1 on
>> NT5 with python 2.2 and Mark Hammond's associated win32 extentions
>> NT4 with python 1.6 and Mark Hammond's associated win32 extentions

I don't have Mark's extensions for Python22, but I just built the
testMSOffice.py test in e2etests/win32 without problem on Python21 
and Python 1.5.2 (using 5b3.1).

I can think of 2 things that might cause your problem:
 - you don't really have the win32 extensions installed
   (which you do, so that's not it)
 - rthooks.dat is missing or trashed

>> Both give me the same result.
>>
>> Can someone point me to what I'm doing wrong?
>> I did a
>> p22 Makespec.py --name=tst script.py
>> p22 Build.py script.py

I think you mean "p22 Build.py tst.spec", right?

>> I have some warnings about a delayed __import__
>> According to the doc these have to be taken serious.
>> But the doc does not explain in a clear way to me
>> what I should do about it.
>> Extend the path?, add the modules manually to the spec file?

For this you shouldn't have to do anything.
It should all be taken care of by rthooks.dat
and the scripts in support/rthooks.

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Mar 28 11:52:44 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:52:44 -0500
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com>
Message-ID: <VTHo8.2201$Ou.1222@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

[posted & mailed]

"Ken Peek" <Ken.Peek at SpiritSongDesigns.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:3ca33c88 at news.mhogaming.com...
> Well-- OK, my new ISP doesn't have a news server, but I found one
> that I could use to post this with.  If you reply to my email, do
> the 'nospam' thing first to my email address...
>
> I really am interested in what people think about this.  I have
> looked at all the other c.l.py posts on this construct, but I
> don't think anyone proposed this format.
>
[ ... ]
>
>   How about:
>
>   match some_object:
>
>       ("I dream of Jeanie",):
>           print "with the light brown hair"
>
>       (1,3,5,7):
>
>           print "some odd numbers"
>
>           # 'break' leaves the entire match structure
>           if (time_to_leave): break
>
>           # 'continue' jumps to the first
>           # statement in the next clause
>           continue
>
>       (123,456,789):
>
>           print "some bigger numbers too"
>
>       (19,56,22):
>
>           print "some random numbers"
>
>       (1001,2002,3000):
>           # YES! It IS possible we want to do NOTHING!
>           pass
>
>       any:
>           print "we got here because there were no matches"
>
>   This is kind of a neat construct because you can put multiple
>   tests on one line, and it doesn't look too messy (like C's
>   'switch' would look.)  Also-- we are not limited to matching up
>   only integers.  This is very clean code compared to a long string
>   of "if/elif/elif/elif/else" clauses...  I like READABLE code--
>   which is why I like Python!
>
>   Note that the aggregate of the tuples must have unique values and
>   types-- (this allows for efficient implementation, and for future
>   optimization.)  A match is found only when BOTH the type and
>   value are the same.  'some_object' can be any object, but it
>   would be wise to not use floating point numbers or other things
>   that do not guarantee a valid '==' compare.  I suppose these
>   ambiguous types could be flagged with an error from the compiler,
>   but I would hate to see a run time check (which would slow things
>   down, just to accommodate a bad programmer.)
>
>   The match clauses do not 'fall through' automatically like a "C -
>   switch" statement-- (this is the source of many errors in 'C'.)
>   A clause can be forced to 'fall through' with the use of a
>   'continue' statement, which jumps to the first statement in the
>   next match clause (because 'falling through' IS useful
>   sometimes.)  I suppose the interpreter/compiler could flag an
>   error "UnreachableCode" (or 'BadIndentation') if 'continue' was
>   used by itself, and there were statements after it at the same
>   indentation level...
>
>   The 'any' keyword could be changed to 'else' I suppose, but I
>   think the word 'any' "just plain sounds better when you say it",
>   and I like the 'match' keyword better than anything I have seen
>   or can think of...
>
[ ... ]
Well I don't know how easy it would be to introduce this from a syntactic
point of view. Others will probably comment on that.

Your example uses only constant (literal) values. This obviously makes it
possible to guarantee that the tuples do not overlap at compile time, but is
very restrictive. Was this intentional, or would your scheme also allow

    match some_object:

        (something_else):
            pass

        (this, that, the_other, 42):
            complex_processing

This would be more flexible, but might make it necessary to accept "firsty
matching value".

You will find there is considerable resistance to adding new keywords, due
to their propensity to break existing code (for example, I have some
programs that use match as a variable name, and the re module uses it as the
name of a method).

regards
 Steve





From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 20:14:24 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:14:24 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OFF4B9C331.54AD8F2A-ON88256B73.00060C6B@i2.com>

James Althoff wrote:
> [James Altfhoff]
> > they can <wink>
> > >>> -3 .__abs__()
> > -3
> > >>>
>
> True.  But your (aka *my*) point would probably be better made with
>
> >>> (-3).__abs__()
> 3

Please learn to type my (aka *your*) own name correctly.  (You realize, of
course, that you committed this typo in a message in which you were
*already* talking to yourself about a typo).

Jim




From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Mon Mar 11 10:19:48 2002
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:19:48 +0100
Subject: DBgrid in python
References: <mailman.1014054238.12896.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6ihmt$2re$03$1@news.t-online.com>

DBgrid in pythonwww.wxpython.org
www.wxpython.org

You have to install both to get a GUI ...


Bye,
Harald

  "Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce" <calves at coelce.com.br> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:mailman.1014054238.12896.python-list at python.org...
  Is there any component in python as DBGrid component in Delphi?! If so, where can I get it?! 

  Thanks, 

  Carlos Alberto 
  COELCE/DPRON-Departamento de Projetos e Obras Norte 
  Fone: 677- 2228 
  e-mail: calves at coelce.com.br 
  \|||/ 
  (o o) 
  --ooo0-(_)-0ooo-- 

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From dreed at capital.edu  Fri Mar 15 20:37:59 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:37:59 -0500
Subject: pythonic way of depth first and breadth first tree iterators
Message-ID: <200203160137.g2G1bxJ20471@localhost.localdomain>

We're planning to use Python in our CS1 and CS2 courses next year so
I'm beginning to think about the issues for these courses.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typeiter.html states:

  If a container supports different types of iteration, additional
  methods can be provided to specifically request iterators for those
  iteration types. (An example of an object supporting multiple forms
  of iteration would be a tree structure which supports both
  breadth-first and depth-first traversal.)

I don't quite understand exatly what that is saying - what would be
the pythonic way of defining/calling separate breadth first and depth
first iterators for a binary tree class - i.e., is there a way to
indicate which method to use when you make the call to iter() so that
I could do something like: for node in tree('depth'):

and

for node in tree('breadth'):

Or is that just implying that I can make a depth first class iterator
class and breadth first iterator class that both support the
corresponding next() method and do something like:

d = DepthIter(tree) 
for node in d:

where DepthIter is a class that takes a tree as a parameter to its
constructor and has a next() method that returns the nodes in a depth
first manner. And similarly, write a BreadthIter class?

Thanks,
Dave



From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Fri Mar  8 01:45:50 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 06:45:50 GMT
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8gn7h.jdt.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

les ander <les_ander at yahoo.com> graced us by uttering:
> i am just curious as to why different programming languages have
> different speed.
[ snip ]
> why is a perl program faster than similar python program?

Oh dear. You said the P-word. The four-letter P-word. Nothing
stigmatizes a comp.lang.python thread faster than bringing up Perl.
<wink>

However, your statement is far too subjective. Differences in
execution speed between any two languages often depend much more on
the knowledge, wisdom, and experience of the programmer than on which
language is used.

OTOH, Perl is optimized for certain things, and Python is optimized
for others.  Finally, words like "faster" and "similar" are far too
subjective to get an accurate answer. If, however, you were to ask:

    Why does a hypothetical benchmark show shorter execution time for

        #/usr/bin/perl -w
        print while <>;

    than for the roughly functionally equivalent Python code

        #!/usr/bin/python
        import fileinput
        for line in fileinput.input():
            print line,

    ???
    TIA,
    J. R. Hacker

...you might find out that this is one particular area where Perl has
been specifically optimized.

> For example
> when java came out it use to be pretty slow, but now it is pretty fast. How
> was this speed-up acheived and why is it not possible to have such a speed up
> for python?

How this speedup was achieved is a problem I leave for Sun. However,
the _reason_ this speedup was sought was because Java had gotten such
a bad rep for being slow in the past. And so, industry competition
once again achieves improvement through pressure. BTW, this is the
same reason Perl implemented a (crufty) object system: user demand.

> P.S. I am just trying to understand and do not intend to put down
> python by any means.

Understood.  But the trick, as always, is not finding the right place
to get an answer, but rather, knowing _which_ question to ask in the
first place. <wink>

HTH
Tim Hammerquist
-- 
You can lead a bigot to water, but if you don't
tie him up, you can't make him drown.
    -- The Psychodots


From h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl  Thu Mar  7 13:24:56 2002
From: h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl (husam)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:24:56 +0100
Subject: Python and computer graphics
References: <3C8785EA.5010509@student.kun.nl> <1015517388.720858@news.commspeed.net>
Message-ID: <3C87B078.2050806@student.kun.nl>

Tom Babbitt wrote:

> "husam" <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in message
> news:3C8785EA.5010509 at student.kun.nl...
> 
>>hi,
>>can anybody points me to usefull resources (books, urls) about using
>>python for computer graphics that help for building skills in this
>>subject from scrash?
>>
>>thanks in advance
>>
>>
> A long time ago I read a book simply titled 3D computer graphics, I think it
> was by some of the folks at pixar. My philosophy is not to spend too much
> time at the bottom but go right to the top, check out
> 
> http://www.linmpi.mpg.de/dislin/
> 
> http://mayavi.sourceforge.net//index.html
> 
> http://pygame.seul.org/
> 
> Tom Babbitt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

I was wondering whether it is possible to create graphics objects 
without the use of a external module. Imagin that you build an 
application and want to let other people use it. People have to install 
python, then
the extra module. The chance that my program finds its way to clients 
screens is not so big.



From python at rcn.com  Wed Mar  6 12:12:23 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:12:23 -0500
Subject: [OT] Want to recognize pictures using Python
References: <a655p5$82t$1@rex.ip-plus.net>
Message-ID: <a65im4$9bp$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Yes, PIL is a good choice.

It has primitives that solve your problem directly:

im.open() loads the image from almost any standard file format
im.split() will generate the three R,G,B color separations
im.resize() can shrink the images to 2 pixels by 2 pixels (a pixel per
quadrant)
im.getdata() will give you the element Python lists of the average quadrant
values


Raymond Hettinger

"F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:a655p5$82t$1 at rex.ip-plus.net...
> I plan to buy a USB camera (hope, they are not too expensive) to play a
bit
> with image analyzing. Nothing sophisticated, just color recognition: I'd
> like to be able to tell whether the upper half of a picture has mostly the
> color green or red or the lower left quarter of an image is mostly blue
etc.
>
> I'm completely new to this topic, but really would like to do this in
> Python.
>
> Does anyone know of a package capable of providing such services? As said
> already, preferably for use in Python programs. PIL comes to my mind here.
> Is PIL the right one to start with in this regard?
>
>
> Thanks and best regards
> Franz GEIGER
>
>
>
>




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar 24 18:19:07 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:19:07 +1100
Subject: two ideoms at one blow: line-reading and regexp-matching
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A22F@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Clark C . Evans [mailto:cce at clarkevans.com]
> 
> I'd note that good "C" style is to always put the constant
> as the LVALUE in this way the above looks "funny".  In
> other words when checking for equality in C, write "if (3==a) {"
> this way if you forget the extra = you don't shoot yourself
> in the foot (it is a syntax error).  A good lint program
> should be able to flag these cases for you.  After a while
> any equality test where the variable is on the left just
> "looks funny"... 

if (b = a)
{
}

Where's the constant?

Tim Delaney



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 21 01:18:50 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 07:18:50 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <mailman.1016677479.16344.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3wuw6v3xx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au> writes:

> Because Greg Ward burned out on it, and no-one's been willing to step up
> and continue work on it. Note that "unmaintained" is a bit strong - bugs 
> are going to be fixed

I'm not so sure about this. At the moment, there are 10 unreviewed
patches (although those dating April 2001 have seen some recent
progress); there are 15 open bug reports, the oldest one dating March
2001. Since March 2001, 30 distutils bugs have been closed, so one out
of three distutils bugs is still pending (for Python in general, the
ratio is 1:9).

Regards,
Martin


From spex66 at web.de  Fri Mar  8 08:30:18 2002
From: spex66 at web.de (spex66)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:30:18 +0100
Subject: print >> details???
Message-ID: <a6aeg6$ddp$1@news2.iabg.de>

Hi there,

I've tried this simple code (python 2.1.1 activestate):

class x:
   def write(self, s):
      print 'START'
      print s
      print 'END'

print >> x(), 'Hello'


and got following result:

START
Hello
END
START


END


where does the second call of x.write() come from???

thanks for any hints

Peter
(=PA=)




From kp87 at lycos.com  Fri Mar  1 13:49:31 2002
From: kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 10:49:31 -0800
Subject: C/C++ to Python translater
Message-ID: <5e8bd451.0203011049.5d12d3a2@posting.google.com>

Is there a translator to automatically port (rewrite) code snippets
from C or C++ to Python? I have some old C code that i have been
porting by hand (well by head really) and i was wondering if there
were any translation utilities that i could try. I imagine that this
would be a monster AI undertaking, Btu with Python's powerful built-in
types i am guessing c --> Python is easier than the opposite.


Just wondering...


<kp>


From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Thu Mar 28 03:53:23 2002
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:53:23 +0100
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <kusn6ldh3u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <a7ugiv$kv6$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>

Erno Kuusela schrieb in Nachricht ...
>In article <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>, "Steve
>Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
>
>i think it's good to remind people of this occasionally. while it may
>waste time for most people, it also lets newbies learn the ways of
>netiquette without having to be chastised invividually by email.
>
Especially as this silly Outlook Express strongly suggests top posting by
placing the cursor at the beginning and inserting an empty line. So somebody
_has_ to tell the newbie not to write at this point. (That somebody might be
common sense, of course.)

Koczian

---
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek , Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE






From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Mar  9 09:50:00 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 16:50:00 +0200
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <kuelivht8g.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <B8AEE297.4C02%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <kuadthj0j3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <ku3cz9iynb.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <kuadthj0j3.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:

| i think one optimization was that [...]

upon re-reading, it looks like this is probably the same idea that i
snipped from Fernando Pereira's message.  d'oh...

  -- erno


From cimarron+google at taylors.org  Sun Mar 10 23:42:32 2002
From: cimarron+google at taylors.org (Cimarron Taylor)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 20:42:32 -0800
Subject: Modulo operator : differences between C and Python
References: <3C8BE537.74E55963@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <29e28c51.0203102042.76ac31b7@posting.google.com>

> Anybody have any idea why this is?
> Erik

I encountered this as well in an application which needed to
verify the results of a C program.  Python seems to be counting
"down" from y if x<0.  I simply compensated for this with
the following function:  

        def mod(x,y):
            m = x%y
            if m==0 or x>0: return m
            return m-y

Another thing to watch out for when comparing results from Python and
C include is overflow/underflow behavior of the math operations.

Cim


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 11:16:05 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:16:05 -0500
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com> <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <junkster-FC1F06.05481529032002@typhoon4-1.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3CA49345.CDA81C49@engcorp.com>

Benjamin Schollnick wrote:
> 
> We have the IF .... ELIF statement structure, which can be used to
> simulate a case statement, but it is not as clear nor as neat as
> the case statement.
> 
> IF X == 0:
>    DO_THIS ()
> ELIF X == 2:
>    DO_THIS (2)

What language is this?  It has a style similar to Python, with the
colon and indentation marking blocks, but Python doesn't have the
keywords IF and ELIF.  (Case-sensitive!)

(You were probably trying to make it more readable or something.
Please don't --  it makes it less readable to those familiar with
reading Python.)

-Peter


From surajsub at netscape.net  Mon Mar 18 12:55:18 2002
From: surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 09:55:18 -0800
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com> <Xns91D31A8FD3696cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <cf4a8ef1.0203180955.55313155@posting.google.com>

Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<Xns91D31A8FD3696cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82>...
> surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub) wrote in 
> news:cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac at posting.google.com:
> > Hi,
> > I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
> > speed.
> 
> Welcome
> 
> >I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
> > The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
> > supposed to be
> > 
> > uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)
> > 
> > However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
> > 
> > uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
> > how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..
> > string.lstrip does not work either.
> 
> i don't see what you're doing. please post some example code alomg 
> with such questions. however some guesses:
> 
> if you have a list of numbers: n = [1,2,3,4]
> you can make string of it using: ','.join(map(str,n))
> 
> or are you parsing the numbers from a string? then you could try:
> >>> import string
> >>> n = map(string.strip, '1, 2, 3, 4'.split(','))
> 
> and if want numbers instead of strings in the list:
> >>> n = map(int, '1, 2, 3, 4'.split(','))
> 
> (*) "map" is simply calling the 1st argument (a function) with each 
> element of the list 2nd arg and saves the result in a list which it 
> returns.
> you can achieve the same with a "for" loop over the list and saving 
> the result in an other list, but i find the "map" is very elegant.
> 
> chris

Ok here is the code..I just need a set of uid's and other similar
parameters which i need to feed to ldap.these are just a dummy set of
values.
=============================================================
#!/usr/local/bin/python
import string

MIN=0
MAX=25
UID="UID"
val=""
for x in range(MIN,MAX,1):
    if( x == 0 ):
        x=str(x)
        val=UID,x+','
        st=string.join(val,"")
        st=string.strip(st)
        print st,
    elif(x > 0 ):
        x=str(x)
        val='UID'+x+',',
        st=string.replace(string.join(val,""),' ','')
        print st,
==========================================================

The output that this script produces is 

UID0, UID1, UID2, UID3, UID4, UID5, UID6, UID7, UID8, UID9, UID10,
UID11, UID12, UID13, UID14, UID15, UID16, UID17, UID18, UID19, UID20,
UID21, UID22, UID23, UID24,


Notice the spaces between the , and the UID
============================================
I need to get rid of these spaces.How do i do it..

Thanks


From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Thu Mar  7 11:01:26 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 08:01:26 -0800
Subject: SWIG and abstract base class
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203070801.243cd087@posting.google.com>

I want to use SWIG to create a Python module for
a C++ class hierarchy using abstract base classes:

%module mymodule

%{
#include "base.h"
#include "derived1.h"
...
%}

class Base // Abstract base class
{
public:
  // many common methods
  ..
};

class Derived1 public Base
{
public:
  // special methods
  ..
};

In the created C++ code, I get error messages like

"cannot instantiate abstract class due to following members:"

Is there any possibility to tell SWIG that
Base should be treated as abstract class?

What could be a workaround (except of repeating
all the base class methods in every derived class)?

Helmut


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sat Mar  2 02:34:47 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:34:47 +0100
Subject: Minor, minor style question
In-Reply-To: Your message of "01 Mar 2002 10:39:42 CST."
             <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <E16h42Z-0000aZ-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:

> Why would I prefer
>   string = ""
>   string = string + "abc "
>   string = string + "def "
>   string = string + "xyz"
> over
>   string = "abc " + \
> 	      "def " + \
> 	      "xyz"
> ?

Why not use:

  string = ("abc"
            "def"
            "xyz"
           )

for constant strings, and

  string = "".join((abc, def, xyz))

for variable strings? Both are more robust, way more efficient, and
(to me, at least) easier to read.

BTW, beware of:

  result = ""
  for s in ... :
    result = result + mumble(s)

For many elements, this gets really slow. Appending to a list and joining
at the end is much faster.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Tue Mar  5 14:07:23 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:07:23 +0000
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu> <7xwuwrofhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <eppstein-A9DCEE.19590304032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <no5a8u8h24mqvo59i18fic3o1rb6lhufph@4ax.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:59:03 -0800, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <7xwuwrofhk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>
>> Usually the term "natural numbers" don't include zero.
>> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NaturalNumber.html
>
>I think "usually" is an exaggeration.  For instance, a better authority 
>than Weisstein, Ebbinghaus et al's _Numbers_ (Springer Graduate Texts in 
>Mathematics 123, 1991, p. 14) disagrees

As a practising/learning mathematician I always understood natural
numbers to include the 0.


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Mar 29 20:38:45 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 20:38:45 -0500
Subject: Python+wxWindows as Visual Basic replacement?
References: <a82lnn$gdu@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <uit7evnq2.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Robb Shecter" <rs at onsitetech.com> writes:

> Python per se isn't the issue - what I'm not sure about is what the
> development and deployment experience is like, when using these parts, taken
> together.

One caveat to get out of the way first - if it's a pure GUI front end
to database access, development will still be easier in the VB IDE for
GUI design, layout and so on.  You can improve on the Python side by
trying something like Boa, or the commercial wxDesigner for the
dialogs, but it's not really quite up to VB IDE levels yet.  There are
other IDE choices too for Python, but not many that attack the GUI
layout issue.

Personally, I just code directly in Python without any special GUI
designer, but that's how I've always done GUI coding - getting some
junior folks in my office who previously used VB to use Python has
been ok for non-GUI stuff, but they are clearly more productive in GUI
design under VB.

Of course, with the exclusion of GUI layout, Python, the language, is
IMHO superior to VB, although with a nice collection of components you
can get a lot of the same high level data constructs for use in VB
too.  But I find Python development itself more robust.

With the above caveat, the actual output of a Python+wxPython
application is just fine.  Looks and feels native, performs great, and
so on.  We're using it in a number of internal applications, and at
least one external application with others to follow.  And there are
some benefits to the wxPython approach over VB that may not be
immediately obvious.  When we evolved a simulation application from a
VB version into a later Python version, since the new GUI was designed
in wxPython with sizers, the primary screen that had been a fixed size
in the VB application, became resizeable "for free".  There are third
party controls to try to do this to a VB form, but it takes some work
and isn't the normal way of doing it in VB.

For deployment, we've used two approaches.  For our primary
distributed system (system installations across the country), Python
was made part of our standard system installation, including wxPython.
So any Python scripts or applications we develop for use on the
systems are simply deployed directly as Python source (or pyc files if
we want to save space).  The same mostly holds true for our internal
machines where our support group or internal users can install Python.

For general external deployment, we use the packaged approach (I use a
combination of Installer and InnoSetup, but py2exe is fine too).
True, it includes its own copy of the Python DLL and support files,
but it's guaranteed to work on the target system independent of any
prior installation, and it behaves just like the windows setup of an
application the users expect.  I've even taken this approach for a
couple of internal use (even non-GUI) tools that needed to be executed
on a few machines on which we weren't planning on installing Python,
so I could just copy the output distribution directory from Installer
to the target systems.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar  3 15:40:41 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 03 Mar 2002 21:40:41 +0100
Subject: Why isn't pychecker mentioned prominently?
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net>
Message-ID: <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Edward K. Ream" <edream at tds.net> writes:

> I just found out about pychecker (http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/) and
> I am wondering why it isn't mentioned prominently all over the Python
> web site: the tutorial, the links on the left and side of the home page,
> topics guides, general reference etc.

Two reasons:

a) it is mentioned prominently. Guido mentioned as hist favourite tool
   both in the proceedings and his keynote at IPC10. It can't get more
   prominent than that, in the Python world :-)

b) because it is fairly new, and evolving

c) because nobody submitted patches to the tutorial.

(you always get three reasons in a message that says it will give two
reasons :-)

Regards,
Martin



From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Fri Mar  1 21:04:53 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:04:53 +0100
Subject: Can use python to play MP3 file?
In-Reply-To: <3c7ec28f$0$27085$4c41069e@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net>
References: <a5llkf$8a75f$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de> <3C7E6328.6050500@bigfoot.de> <3c7ec28f$0$27085$4c41069e@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net>
Message-ID: <20020302020453.GD3201@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 28/02/02 ? 16:52, Tim H ?crivit:
> "Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard at bigfoot.de> wrote:
> > Ricky wrote:
> > > I hear that PHP can online play MP3 file. Is there any method that
> > > can make me play MP3 by using Python CGI?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any reply!
> >
> > Do you want to play the MP3 file on the server, like a jukebox. Or do
> > you want to stream MP3 files back to the client computer?
> >
> > (Of course you can do both with Python)
> >
> > Gerhard
> 
> Do you have examples, links, hints to doing each with python?

Playing an MP3 file using pygame (http://www.pygame.org/):

import pygame.mixer as mixer

mixer.init(44100)
mixer.music.load("White Bird.mp3")
mixer.music.play()
mixer.music.get_busy()

print "Press enter to quit."
raw_input()


OTOH streaming MP3 files from the server to the client has IMHO little
to do with Python, it's more of a HTTP thing. As long as you've set the
correct content type and played the right tricks with HTML, it should
just work. FWIW, there's a streaming MP3 server written in Python at
Sourceforge: http://edna.sourceforge.net/

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 4.0 ?C      Wind: 3.2 m/s



From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Mar 13 16:39:00 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 22:39:00 +0100
Subject: telnet
References: <a6obko$743$1@kinder.server.csc.liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns91D0E684ADADDcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"M.Beis" <mike at csc.liv.ac.uk> wrote in
news:a6obko$743$1 at kinder.server.csc.liv.ac.uk: 
> I'm connected to a network with a number of telnet servers. I want 
> to get a list with the names (hostnames) of each availiable server.

that would be a network scanner(*) - and most likely something your 
sysadmin doesn't like to see. isn't there a list available somewhere 
in your net. loading alist of IPs from a file is simpler and faster.

chris


(*) brute force method: get your own IP and netmask then try to 
connect to each IP in your subnet on the telnet port. as sayed above 
most administrators don't like scanning and it could have 
consequences on your career.


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Mar 12 05:22:46 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:22:46 +0300
Subject: IDv2/IDv3 Tag on mp3-files
In-Reply-To: <a6kk97$euq4d$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>; from mail@andreas-penzel.de on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 11:11:26AM +0100
References: <a6kk97$euq4d$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20020312132246.B11831@phd.pp.ru>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 11:11:26AM +0100, Andreas Penzel wrote:
> Is it possible, to read the IDv2 or IDv3 Tag from mp3-files?

   http://www.id3.org/implement.html
   http://csl.cse.ucsc.edu/~ben/python/
   https://sourceforge.net/projects/pyid3/

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From brian at sweetapp.com  Sat Mar  9 17:00:58 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:00:58 -0800
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <a6dv55$phu$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <00a101c1c7b5$e50088b0$445d4540@Dell2>

> How do you get the ordinal value (ASCII) of a character? For example,
to
> make a ROT13 program.

You use the built-in function "ord". e.g.

>>> ord('a')
97

Cheers,
Brian




From kragen at pobox.com  Thu Mar 14 16:50:37 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 16:50:37 -0500
Subject: [q]Mouse event
References: <lLtj8.29195$tg4.341145@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <834rjin7iq.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"John" <nobody at nobody.com> writes:
> Is there any way to record Mouse events (click, double click, and etc.) on
> the applications running, using Python?

What platform are you using, nobody at nobody.com?



From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 21 06:59:15 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:59:15 GMT
Subject: __file__ for relative imports
References: <2OVMEJA7kKm8EweI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <u7ko62kn6.fsf@python.net>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> Is there an obvious reason why modules imported from the current
> directory don't have an absolute pathname for __file__?

No.  I think there's a bug on sf about this.

It would be a bit of a pest to implement, I think, but I may be
missing something.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 Two decades later, well-known hacker Henry Spencer described the 
 Perl scripting language as a "Swiss-Army chainsaw", intending to 
 convey his evaluation of the language as exceedingly powerful but 
 ugly and noisy and prone to belch noxious fumes.   -- the jargon file


From jrchaff at mcn.net  Wed Mar 13 15:08:46 2002
From: jrchaff at mcn.net (jrc)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:08:46 GMT
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FB1E0.C0E0C6E7@mcn.net>

I apologize for earlier comments.  I find Python 2.2
will run scripts in Windows (Dos prompt) IF the inter-
preter has not already been launched.  This is clearly
the reason each scriptname is prefixed by 'python'.

The confusion is that this small point is completely
overlooked in the documentation, including Fehily's
book. A newcomer gets the impression that one starts
the interpreter, THEN types 'python script.py', which
leads to the errors I initially experienced.

It is worth changing the documentation. I am sure I'm
not the first (by far) to stumble on this and it is
quite frustrating.

jrc
--------------------------------------------------------------

jrc wrote:

> Hi - I'm a reasonably experienced programmer.  I work in
> Windows (ME). Thinking to give Python a try, I downloaded
> v22 and installed.  At first, it looks good, but then, I discover
> it seems impossible to get any scripts to run in the command
> prompt, using any available documentation whatever.  I even
> have Chris Fehily's book - essentially none of his examples
> work with scripts from command prompt; yet this is a 2002
> book .  (?!!)
>
> I do have the path set (and yes, rebooted, etc) - I checked it.
> It includes both the installation directory and the working
> directory.  I started the cmd line prompt using the provided
> icon, and also via a Dos Prompt (again, with proper path set),
> followed by 'python'.  The interpreter starts up just fine and
> works ( >>> 2 + 2  -> 4 , etc).  But, with a script in the
> current directory (on the path too), a command,
>
> 'python script.py'
>
> completely fails (syntax error).  This is the only way I
> know - following the Fehily book and the sparse comments
> in Python documentation - to execute scripts from the cmd
> line. If v 22 is somehow different, it would be very nice to
> point out to (potential) users.  I've also tried every permutation
> of this procedure that I can reasonably imagine - with the
> same result.
>
> The only way I am able to get scripts to run (without which
> python is just a toy) is to use 'Idle', load the file via "File Open",
> then in THAT window, execute it, (!!), then back in the cmd
> line I have to issue yet another command to get the prompt
> back.  This is essentially an unusably awkward procedure,
> for my use.  So unless there is some reasonably convenient
> way to run scripts, python has no value to me at all.
>
> I would very much appreciate someone telling me which un-
> documented point(s) I am missing.  Thanks,
>
> jrc



From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Mar  5 16:04:48 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 22:04:48 +0100
Subject: Problems importing anything using _socket
References: <e2e9e807.0203050335.65ca52f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91C8E0B1B2DD8cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

h.e.w.frater at cs.cf.ac.uk (Hugh) wrote in 
news:e2e9e807.0203050335.65ca52f4 at posting.google.com:
> Hi all,
>  I'm totally new to python, but have decided to use it to do a 

welcome

> first year uni project. I've got to develop a web based library. 
> I'm using oracle with the DCOracle2 module, and that works fine. 
> But I can't import anything that uses _socket. If I try and do an 
> "import cgi" frok inside the interpreter, I get this message:
>>>> import cgi
> Traceback (most recent call last):
...
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 41, in ?
>     from _socket import *
> ImportError: No module named _socket
>>>> import cgi
>>>> 
> 
> However, As you can see from above If I then type and run the line
> "import cgi" again, it forks fine. Any ideas?

no it doesn't work. the module is half initialized in the module-
cache. it's only loaded gain when you type "reload(cgi)" and it will 
certainly print the error again.

"_socket" is a .so file that should be in some subdirectory of your 
python installation. Seems that your installation is broken.

you seem to be on an Un*x/Linux, i can't help you there - every thing 
worked fine on my Debina machine. maybe some other has an idea.
(i would try the configure/make/make install dance again, but i'm 
also a winblows user ;-)

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 20:55:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 01:55:03 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <a6nifr$eob$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <a6ovtn$ged$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:59:28 +0100, anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:

>On 11 Mar 2002 07:31:55 -0800, drevenhaug at hotmail.com (Graz Bukanoff)
>wrote:
>
>>Is Python an object based programming langauge?
>
>Short answer:
>
>Yes, but at least for me there can be some confusion originating from
>factors that have to do with graphical user interfaces.
>
>Long answer:
>
>Some modern programming IDE's (integrated development environments)
>are trying to adapt the way user thinks to the way the computer works.
>A computer is a thing that is in an infinite loop where sometimes
>events can trigger certain actions. 
>
>For example in the old days of Borland Pascal or Borland C it was easy
>to write a program that did certain things and then exited. 
>
>Now with modern Delphi or C++ Builder its a real accomplishment to
>write such a program. It goes directly against the paradigm of always
Sorry, but that is not true of Delphi. Did you ever work Delphi from
the command line? You can easily write console apps that do not use GUI windows:
---
 [17:10] V:\Dwk\bare>type bare.dpr
 program bare;
 {$APPTYPE CONSOLE}
 uses sysutils;
 begin
   Writeln('Hello World ;-)')
 end.

 [17:10] V:\Dwk\bare>dcc32 bare.dpr
 Delphi for Win32  Version 10.0  Copyright (c) 1983,97 Borland International
 bare.DPR(7)
 8 lines, 0.08 seconds, 26328 bytes code, 2145 bytes data.

 [17:10] V:\Dwk\bare>bare
 Hello World ;-)

 [17:11] V:\Dwk\bare>dirf "bare.*(dpr|exe)" .
 02-03-13  17:09         94 V:\Dwk\bare\bare.DPR
 02-03-13  17:10     36,352 V:\Dwk\bare\bare.exe
---

This is on NT4 using Delphi 3.
GUI IDE or command line, don't diss Delphi either way ;-)

>creating a form (a form is a container for graphical objects) whether
>one needs one or not, and since forms are reacting to events one has
>to generate an exiting event. In this view it's also natural to view
>graphical things on the screen as objects, and to have objects react
>to events. (user clicks button)
>
>This idea has become very pervasive and can  be seen in other IDE's
>that are of the GUI kind (graphical user interface). In python most of
>the time objects are not connected to graphical elements on the
>screen. In Delphi, C++ Builder and Visual Basic there are also non
>graphical objects, but these IDE's *start* with graphical objects and
>introduce other objects later.
Not unless that's the way you want to use it. 
>
>In python it is the other way around: It is possible to have graphical
>objects and infinite loops and events but a starting python script is
>often more like the "old" way of programming. This makes it easy to
>try things out. Complex loops and graphics can be added later.
>
Ditto for Delphi.

>Both ways of designing programs have some advantages. Different ways
>of viewing objects -as graphics reacting to events or as
>datacontainers reacting to methodcalls-  can be appropriate. A program
>can be nongraphic but still be object oriented and reacting to events,
>for example a webserver. The resulting confusion sometimes leads to
>not recognizing the object oriented (or object based?) nature of other
>language-IDE combinations.
>
You could also look at the graphics as visual side effects of
"datacontainers reacting to methodcalls" in an OO-designed GUI ;-)

>On the other hand its entirely possible that the source of the
>confusion is something completely different.
>
Well, please don't add to the confusion about Delphi's capabilities ;-)
You could put someone off that might like it ;-)

BTW, note the compile time. It's not a fluke. Big programs go very fast too.
Coming from C++ you will wonder if it actually compiled or not ;-)

Oops, this wasn't sent... here we go.

Regards,
Bengt Richter
(No association with Borland).


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Thu Mar  7 21:06:05 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 18:06:05 -0800
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
References: <mailman.1015530914.14111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd6yflsoi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> Whether or not you want to be able to check files into the CVS repository,
> if you want to contribute, you should probably subscribe to the python-dev
> mailing list.  You can subscribe here:
> 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> 
> If you'd like checkin privileges, send me (skip at pobox.com) an email with
> "Python developer" in the subject.  Don't simply reply to this message.
> Your note may well get lost (I get tons of email) among followups that are
> just feedback about this message.  Let me know where your Python interests
> and experience are, and maybe point to some stuff you've done.  I'll do a
> little filtering (probably not a lot), then pass it along to another group
> of people who will decide about granting CVS checkin privileges.

This disturbs me.  I'd prefer that checkin privileges be extremely
limited.  I don't want random crackers to be able to check trojan
horses into the Python distribution.  I'd rather that every patch be
examined by one of the official maintainers before check-in, as is
done with the Linux kernel and the main GNU stuff.  Of course I can't
expect the maintainers to do exhaustive security analysis of every
single patch, but they should at least eyeball the patches for obvious
bugs and trojans.


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar  4 06:03:52 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:03:52 -0600
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
In-Reply-To: <7xy9h8pt9x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEEMJDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> > Unfortunately, the C standard (neither one) isn't a lick of help here --
> > error reporting from C math functions is a x-platform crapshoot.
>
> That seems to me to be a deficiency in the C standard--IEEE 754
> defines these different error modes because they're all important, and
> any high level language that claims to be good for serious numerics
> should give precise control over the error modes.

To be fair, C99 goes on about this at great length in Annex F.
The error behavior appears to be specified pretty closely, to my
untrained eye, and all sorts of error-detecting and -handling
functions are provided in <fenv.h>.  (No idea what compliance is
like out there, though.)

But the standard leaves it to the implementation whether "underflow"
and "inexact" are reported in certain cases.  Interestingly,
the footnote blames the underflow lenience on IEEE:

    "IEC 60559 allows different definitions of underflow.  They all
    result in the same values, but differ on when the floating-point
    exception is raied."

Btw, I hereby disclaim all knowledge of what I'm talking about.
(As if there were any doubt.)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar  6 17:33:28 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:33:28 +0000
Subject: Python on W2K server and dos batch files?
References: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net>
Message-ID: <3C869938.60900@mxm.dk>

Mark Kingston wrote:

> I would appreciate if you can tell me if Python is a good fit for what I
> want to do.  If not, please recommend another solution.

<snip>

All of the things you want to do looks absolutely feasible from Python.

Especially you should look at:

in module os

popen(command[, mode[, bufsize]])

Open a pipe to or from command. The return value is an open file object 
connected to the pipe, which can be read or written depending on whether 
mode is 'r' (default) or 'w'. The bufsize argument has the same meaning 
as the corresponding argument to the built-in open() function. The exit 
status of the command (encoded in the format specified for wait()) is 
available as the return value of the close() method of the file object, 
except that when the exit status is zero (termination without errors), 
None is returned. Availability: Unix, Windows.


regards Max M



From matthias_j at lycos.com  Sun Mar 10 13:39:28 2002
From: matthias_j at lycos.com (Matthias Janes)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 10:39:28 -0800
Subject: Binary Register entries Question
Message-ID: <d7d5ebdf.0203101039.4e8ee7ad@posting.google.com>

I exported a Win NT register to a reg file like this.

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TEST]
"Password"=hex:b3,e8,85,f6,4d,9c,29,04

Now I'm not sure how to write binary Hex data with python.

----------------------------------------------------------
I do something like this

import os, sys, win32api, win32con

parentkey = win32con.HKEY_CURRENT_USER
subkey = r"Software"
Computer = None

values = ...... I do not know how to use this for binary hex data

b = win32api.RegConnectRegistry(Computer, parentkey )
c =win32api.RegCreateKey (b, subkey)
v = win32api.RegSetValueEx (c, "Password", 0,win32con.REG_BINARY, values)

----------------------------------------------------------



Any Help would be greate

Matthias Janes


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Mar 23 08:43:11 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 13:43:11 GMT
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list@python.org>  <slrna9n6hb.2e1.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <mailman.1016870796.2129.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7i0pf$dco$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Laura Creighton <lac at strakt.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Finally,
> out of the chaos, we have produced the social situation where order
> beats freedom of expression hands-down.  And Google must be responsive
> to it or risk going out of business.  Would you trade 'the freedom to
> be different' for 'the choice to be excellent'?  Every new python
> progrqammer who has given up on 'self-expression through my favourite
> brace style' is making this choice.  The subversive message is 'order
> is a lot of fun'.  I think that this message will finally produce
> people who are brave enough to say that they want good authorities,
> not the absence of all authorities.  But then I'm an Order-loving
> Optimist.

Rest assured the Python Secret Underground is working on all of this. An
important breakthrough was made yesterday in Consistinuum 47B (on Astor's
Scale of Cross Temporal Diffusion, see crosstime://astorsctd.org for
an index). Fnord. The PSU is Fnord confident (.85) that the Discordians can
Fnord be stopped Fnord by Fnord Fnord Fnord

          Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

  The Aneristic Principle is that of APPARENT ORDER; the Eristic Principle is
that of APPARENT DISORDER. Both order and disorder are man made concepts and 
   are artificial divisions of PURE CHAOS, which is a level deeper that is the 
 level of distinction making.

 Seek the Sacret Chao -- therin you will find the foolishness of all 
 ORDER/DISORDER. They are the same!

         this message is temporary out of order - the Mgt.

and Fnord therefore Fnord the PSU is in an excellent Fnord position not just
to diminish Erisian propaganda, but to completely eliminate it shortly.



From edcjones at erols.com  Tue Mar 26 11:18:11 2002
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:18:11 -0500
Subject: C API for modules
Message-ID: <3CA09F43.80206@erols.com>

Is there some simple way to call functions in modules from C? In 
particular, for module struct, how do I call pack, unpack, and calcsize?

Thanks,
Ed Jones



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 28 00:20:33 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 21:20:33 -0800
Subject: Extending/embedding versus separation
References: <mailman.1017253842.6718.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203272120.6ef45a10@posting.google.com>

"skoria" <shomon at softhome.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017253842.6718.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi
> 
> I have a system for processing usage statistics, for which most of the
> hard work is done by a small C program 
[etc etc]
> 
> Now I want to create fancy graphs, 
[etc etc]
> So the plan was until today to write everything out
> to a text file and process these files with python to display in html
> or whatever other format comes to mind. 
> 
> But I've been reminded that python is good at integrating with C
> programs through extension and embedding. This tells me that the other
> way to go from here is to turn my c program into a python extension,
> or somehow merge the two languages, so that I miss the step of saving
> the C programs results to disk. (and potentially increase memory
> usage?). I will be having a look at "programming python" tonight, to
> see which, out of extending and embedding, is what I should go for.

My take on a project like yours would be to write *everything* (that's
not available off the shelf) in Python first, even parts that you
think you know for sure are going to have to be implemented in C
later. Those parts can be coded up in Python modules that can be
replaced by C extensions if really needed. The infrastructure stuff
like command-line-arg handling (or GUI input), file handling, etc is
so much easier to bolt together in Python than in C that I would
prefer extending Python (if necessary) to embedding Python in C.

Hash tables in C? Are you using a package like Cdt, or did you write
your own? If you can process data into hash tables in C and then get
the data into Python faster than you can process the data into
dictionaries in Python, then please divulge your deep dark magic
spells to Tim Peters the Python-dict-shaman.

You seem to be a bit concerned about memory usage. My advice is to
write a prototype of your application in Python, bearing memory
efficiency in mind, but not obsessively -- i.e. use the most
appropriate data structures and don't distort your Python code into
unreadability. Then you either have enough memory or you don't. Do
some back-of-the-envelope calculations, like: a 256MB stick of memory
costs how few hours of developer time? If you can't for whatever
reason get more memory, then it's time to consider your next step. If
your application has some large dictionaries that only have objects of
type X as keys and type Y as values (where Y is a simple type like int
or float) then it might be a good idea to take a copy of dictobject.c
and make a specialised intdict (say) module that instead of managing
(PyObject *) pointers, managed int values directly -- this would save
you heaps (pardon the pun) of memory; see recent thread in this
newsgroup about amount of memory taken up by Python objects.

For another (already implemented) variation on this memory-saving
theme, google("c.l.py", "Machin intern memory").

HTH,
John


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 07:02:13 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 06:02:13 -0600
Subject: hash(unicode(string)) == hash(string) sometimes
In-Reply-To: <m3g03cajv9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <7dee885c.0203051843.36efa5c2@posting.google.com>
        <a64167$fsh$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
        <7xvgcabcti.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <c76ff6fc.0203061510.53d5a91b@posting.google.com>
        <m3g03cajv9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <15495.22213.352930.662418@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

>>>>> "Martin" == Martin v Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

    Martin> sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) writes:
    >> ... making hash(string) always do hash(unicode(string)) ...

    Martin> The real solution, IMO, is to never change the system default
    Martin> encoding.

Veering off on a tangent, the question of raw_input failing for latin-1
input came up on python-help in the last day.  The suggested solution was to
change the system default encoding.  If not that, then what?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From kragen at pobox.com  Mon Mar 25 20:14:48 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 20:14:48 -0500
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
References: <mailman.1016971717.5613.python-list@python.org> <a7klhn$b6o$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <83u1r43zav.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl> writes:
> > Is there any good tutorial for creating advanced client/server apps
> > (like online games) out there? i tried to make one 2 times, and both
> 
> May I suggest you take a look at Pyro;   http://pyro.sourceforge.net
> It may be just what you want/need for easy distributed application development.
> You don't have to do any network programming when using Pyro.

I don't think Pyro is suitable for online games.  It's an RPC layer.



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 08:31:37 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:31:37 -0600
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
In-Reply-To: <q7qd9u07pf6o9p13cg40u8mavi79r41u9d@4ax.com>
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com>
        <83hendkou7.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
        <q7qd9u07pf6o9p13cg40u8mavi79r41u9d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15511.15801.929250.332133@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> ... but because in some cases, there really *are* performance issues
    >> that rule Python out.

    c//> Indeed; and believe it or not, there are even some environments
    c//> where writing external C doesn't solve the problem either.

I'm coming in late here, so maybe I'm misreading something, but I don't
think Python tries to be the one-and-only programming language.  If packages
like Psyco expand the range of applications to which it can be applied, so
much the better, but I view that as an incremental change, not a fundamental
change.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Mar  4 08:42:21 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:42:21 +0000
Subject: what is happening at __init__
References: <3C8358C0.81D97AD8@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <a5vprr$jvp$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi,

Your questions regarding the so-called "constructor" may simply show that 
the term "constructor" is not so good after all. In fact, the constructor 
does not "build" anything: the instance is already created (i.e. allocated 
in the memory) when the constructor is called. So your Q2 starts on the 
wrong basis: self is *not* assigned to a new value within the function; the 
new value is created *before* the call to the constructor, which simply 
references it as its parameter named "self", just like any other 
function/method. So if you do something like:

class C:
  def __init__(self):
    self = None
o = C()

o will *not* be set to None, but to a new, uninitialized instance of C: as 
always in Python, modifications to a method parameter are lost when the 
method ends, and the "constructor" is no exception.

In fact, Python is a tad more explicit than other languages when it calls 
the "constructor" __init__, because it would be far more accurate to call 
it an "initializer" rather than a "constructor": it doesn't create the 
instance, but simply initialize its attributes. And note it is not specific 
to Python: in C++ or in Java, the "constructor" is also called when the 
instance has already been allocated, so it doesn't build it.

Maybe this enlightens you a little bit more. The answers for your other 
questions should now be clear:
- Q1 is a "yes but": instance is created, then passed to the constructor 
where it is assigned to local variable "self"
- Q2 is pointless: self is *not* assigned in the constructor
- Q3 is no: the return value for the constructor is completely ignored, so 
you can return whatever you want (it's just useless...)
- Q4 is yes: you work on the actual instance that was created before the 
call to the constructor
- Q5 is yes: it is not the return value of the constructor that matters, 
but what is done to self's attributes within the method

If there are still unclear points in all that, you should carefully read 
the section 3.1 of the Python language reference manual ("Objects, values 
and types") where the objects and references concepts are described (IMHO 
not so well, but it's a start...).

HTH
 - eric -



From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Thu Mar 28 21:21:03 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:21:03 GMT
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <3ca27d3d@news.microsoft.com> <uadstwexr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrnaa57jd.efn.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a3l5auc083dblbssjud0rvnv8bs76fj7uu@4ax.com> <uhen0vatp.fsf@online.no> <q0t6au4goc1q5ql38vq57qd3ec2ajhqpgl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u1ye4p12b.fsf@online.no>

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> writes:

> Syver Enstad <syver-en+usenet at online.no> wrote:
> 
> >Adding the registry settings so that one can drop data files on .py
> >and .pyw files and the files dropped will be received as commandline
> >arguments would also be nice. 
> >
> I raised this issue some while ago. I don't think that's just a
> registry change.

Oh but it is, I have it on my machine. I just nicked some registry
stuff from the exe file key in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT and py and pyw file
behave beautifully when dropped files on.

Here's what you need:

<python drop.reg>
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shellex\DropHandler]
@="{86C86720-42A0-1069-A2E8-08002B30309D}"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.NoConFile\shellex\DropHandler]
@="{86C86720-42A0-1069-A2E8-08002B30309D}"
</python drop.reg>


-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 04:07:13 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:07:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Zope Question
References: <pan.2002.03.15.18.24.35.492395.26562@crystalcherry.com> <3C950D0B.60602@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91D55C7122223duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Thomas Guettler <newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in 
news:3C950D0B.60602 at thomas-guettler.de:

> But I can't figure out how to insert
>> either CHECKED or nothing depending on the state of a variable.
>> 
> 
> One solution would be to do it like this (I use pseudo-code since I
> am new to page templates, and don't want to look up the syntax):
> 
> if checked==true
>   <input type="radio" name="foo" checked="yes">
> else
>   <input type="radio" name="foo">
> 

You just do it like this:
<div tal:define="trueexpr python:1; falseexpr python:0;
 emptystring python:''; fullstring string:Hello;">
    
<input type="radio" name="radios"
       tal:attributes="checked trueexpr"> I'm checked<br>
<input type="radio" name="radios"
       tal:attributes="checked falseexpr"> I'm not.<br>

<input type="radio" name="radios1"
       tal:attributes="checked fullstring"> I'm checked<br>
<input type="radio" name="radios1"
       tal:attributes="checked emptystring"> I'm not.<br>

</div>
The page type must be text/html for this to work.

Zope's templates have a list of attributes in HTML that are given in a 
boolean form (compact, nowrap, ismap, declare, noshade, checked, disabled, 
readonly, multiple, selected, noresize, and defer).
Strangely this list is declared in two separate places in the source, and 
only used in one place!

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From abou at cam.org  Sun Mar 31 10:49:06 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:49:06 -0500
Subject: seek()
References: <mailman.1017529128.3447.python-list@python.org> <3CA6AD4D.C552BDDA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3CA72FF2.6B5681F0@cam.org>


Peter Hansen wrote:

> Well, that's the basic key to writing software: use components
> that already exist to build up a more sophisticated solution.
> 
> In this case, if you have a method of finding a string in a string
> (which you have already found), and you have a method of getting
> a string from a file or webpage, you can clearly put the two together
> to solve your overall problem.
> 
> Getting a string from the data in a file is rather simple, and if
> you want to get a string from a web page you should look at the
> urllib module.
> 
> -Peter

This is what I have so far:

import urllib
import string

c = open('/home/corestats', 'w')
try:
    f =
urllib.urlopen("http://www.coremud.org/cgi-bin/mycore.pl?stocks=1&font=Arial")
except IOError:
    print '\nWebsite not reachable. Core 2651 must be down or check your
connection.'

k =
urllib.urlretrieve("http://www.coremud.org/cgi-bin/mycore.pl?stocks=1&font=Arial",
'corestats')

# Now I have the source in a file. No problems here.
# This finds the byte where 'Gold' starts. I know that Gold's value is
found 8 # bytes later. 

longstr = c.read()
print string.find(longstr, 'Gold')
# Is it possible to have the output of string.find() converted to a
string, or even # better, to an int? If I can get the location of 'Gold'
into an int, it would be # easy to do:

c.seek(1469) # this is where 'Gold' is
c.read(4)    # this gets Gold's value (in this case, 9.60)
c.close()

# But since the webpage is dynamic, it's never the same bytes so I can't
hardcode # the location of the different values I want.
# I'm not trying to get the string.find() output into an int... 


-- 
Zutroi Zatatakowski
Commando PACU
http://pacu.cjb.net



From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 08:07:11 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 13:07:11 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017531239.13331.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a871lv$a3i$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Guido,

> IMO, bool(x) is the right way to "normalize" any value into a truth
> value.

What do you think of `truth(x)' for all the good reasons listed
elsewhere in the thread?  You used truth yourself instead of Boolean
above.


Ralph.



From john at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 02:37:56 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:37:56 GMT
Subject: Core Python Programming, chapter 5 exercises number 5-3, question on this exercise
References: <8dbo9u8jv0j9p58h4dvhqojk2154m8vict@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <n1co9u8si04dt5mjfg7b3sprbfhkjhj9ev@4ax.com>

nm, i found the answer to my question.  If i would have waited anotehr
5 mins....
on the page after i stopped reading last nite i found example 6-1
which uses raw_input() which was used on page 27.
Forgive me since i had read that like 2 months ago and had picked the
book back up for the first time 2 days ago in almot 2 months.
Rob


PS---why is it that every mailing list or newgsroup posting i always
ask, i always answer my own dumbass question 5-10 mins after i
post/ask it??, lol


From md_lazreg at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 23:27:48 2002
From: md_lazreg at yahoo.com (mohamed lazreg)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:27:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: bug tracking system
Message-ID: <20020320042748.24672.qmail@web10507.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear pythoners,

Are you aware of any free bug tracking system written
in python?

Thanks in advance...

Mohamed

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/



From cfelling at iae.nl  Tue Mar  5 18:01:21 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 00:01:21 +0100
Subject: Updating Python...Newbie alert!
References: <n3ah8.112697$Hu6.28510292@typhoon.neo.rr.com> <Xns91C8E16569949cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <mXah8.112719$Hu6.28541419@typhoon.neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a63io1$ats$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Mr.Lee <mrlee at davesupply.com> wrote:
>         How new am I?  I am this new: when I typed 'make install'
> went into it's proper place!  I didn't quite finish the proper
> procedures.  Ya lern sumthin' new ev'ryday.

If this worked and you didn't specify an --prefix to ./configure then
you're probably running as root. *Don't do that* It will heart someday.

Do the ./configure and make dance as a normal user and switch to root
just to do the install step.

-- 
groetjes, carel


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Mar 16 22:11:30 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 03:11:30 GMT
Subject: PIL Headaches: Advice Needed
References: <4378fa6f.0203161652.7f28e23b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a711h2$4db$0@216.39.172.122>

On 16 Mar 2002 16:52:49 -0800, mnations at airmail.net (Marc) wrote:

>I have gone thru all the tutorials and read me's I can find, and I
>still can't get PIL to work for me. At no point has it ever been able
>to recognize any file that I try to open in all formats (.bmp, .jpg,
>.gif, etc).
>
>I've imported the two DLL's into my main structure. I've imported all
>of the imaging .py files into the main Lib folder. The classes are
>being recognized and imported correctly.
>
>Has anyone else had similar problems? What am I doing wrong?
>
Not posting minimal failing actual code ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 31 16:49:21 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:49:21 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203312201020.5602-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEGPOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Pearu Peterson]
> Theorem:
> ========
> Assume specification of PEP 285. The following statements hold truth:
>
>   True is One
>
> and
>
>   False is Zero,
>
> where One and Zero represent integers 1 and 0, respectively.

The theorem is false; it would be true if you replaced "is" by "==".

> Proof:
> ------
> According to PEP, True and False are instances of bool that is a
> subclass of int.

True.

> Therefore True and False can be considered as integers

Unclear what that means, exactly.

> and it makes sense to compare them with integers.

Except "is", in terms of which your theorem is stated, is a special kind of
comparison that can reveal non-guaranteed implementation accidents.  To cut
this short, there's no guarantee that even

    0 is 0

returns true, although it *happens* to be true in all implementations of
CPython to date (although for different internal reasons in different
implementations!).  The PEP *does* guarantee that

    True is True
    False is False

are true; that's a stronger guarantee than is made for integers.

> If n is an integer then the following statements hold
>
>   True == n   only if n is 1

Only if you're using a non-Python meaning for "is".  A true statement using
Python meanings would be

    True == n   if and only if   n == 1

Note that this covers cases like

    True == 1.0

too.

> ...




From nsbase at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar 16 11:31:28 2002
From: nsbase at yahoo.co.uk (Noel Smith)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:31:28 -0000
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <mailman.1016216529.29034.python-list@python.org> <m3vgbxs7e2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3c937209$0$8509$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
>> However I've recently installed python 7.2 on Windows NT4
> Wow!  7.2 ?  They really *have* sped up the release cycle...  <wink>

Doh! I was installing RedHat at the same time as writing the post. I meant
2.2 although it doesn't really matter what the version is.



Jason Orendorff wrote:
> Alas, the PC console uses a different character set called CP437,
> which is not Latin-1 compatible.  In CP437, the pound sign
> is 156 and the yen sign is 157.

This was the bit of info I was really after! I must admit that I hadn't ever
come across the "cp437" character set before, even though I've been doing
windows coding for a good few years now. Now I know about it I can just
apply a decode to a string to get the correct answer:

>>> ord( "?".decode("cp437") )
163



Martin V.  Loewis wrote:
> This is rather unlikely, I doubt the interactive interpreter will ever
> be able to properly identify the encoding of the console window. More
> likely, this line will give an error, since no encoding has been
> declared.

Although I agree that interpreter can't determine the encoding
automatically, it would be really nice to be able to set the input encoding
when you start it up. Its a real pain to look up the unicode value for every
extended character you want to use and it would make Python a lot easier for
those with a large number of extended characters on their keyboards.


Thanks for all the help.

Noel Smith




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 15:42:24 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:42:24 +0000
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net> <3C8FB1E0.C0E0C6E7@mcn.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FB9B0.7050304@mxm.dk>

jrc wrote:

> I apologize for earlier comments.  I find Python 2.2
> will run scripts in Windows (Dos prompt) IF the inter-
> preter has not already been launched.  This is clearly
> the reason each scriptname is prefixed by 'python'.


No that is actually a classic. Well at least I have seen it a few times 
before on the list.

The problem is that if you have allready launched python you are typing 
dos commands into Python. And that doesn't quite compute :-/

You are trying to run a Python program that looks like:

     python script.py

And naturally that will not work.

regards Max M


Btw. wouldn't it be good practice to write possible/more keywords in the 
bottom of an answer-post so that it can be easier google'd ??? or is 
that a stupid idea?

--------------------------------------
dos command line interactive python interpreter start launch python 
program python.exe



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 30 18:24:08 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:24:08 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <uachupma3sk1a2@news.supernews.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3y9ga7z38.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>
> > Are there code snippets which clearly have significantly improved
> > readability as a result of a rewrite using the proposed bool?
>
> The standard library has 110 occurrences of "return 0", 70 occurrences
> of "return 1", and 136 occurrences of "return None". Optimistically,
> this makes 300 functions. It would help users of these 300 functions
> if they would know whether those functions return a boolean or an
> integral value (if integral, what range?); for the "return None"
> cases, the boolean type would help to clarify whether this is "return
> no value", "return False", or "return nil object";
>
> Regards,
> Martin

I make it optimistically 180 functions. Given the reasonably
high quality of the standard library, "return None" almost
certainly means that the function does not have a return value,
not that the return value should be treated as False. Good
practice shouldn't be to return None if you meant False - the
convention is 1 or 0.

John Roth

>




From akuchlin at dust.mems-exchange.org  Fri Mar  8 08:31:40 2002
From: akuchlin at dust.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 13:31:40 GMT
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
References: <mailman.1015530914.14111.python-list@python.org> <DcUh8.36711$nl1.5581667@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <mailman.1015550429.9885.python-list@python.org> <YaYh8.119$_Z4.1000@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <slrna8hf9s.4b4.akuchlin@dust.mems-exchange.org>

In article <YaYh8.119$_Z4.1000 at news.hananet.net>, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> Skip Montanaro scribbled with his keyboard:
>> Yes, I believe python-dev has opened up.  Try subscribing again and see
>> what happens. ;-)
> Deferred for administrator's approval.

I got the same message when I re-subscribed a few weeks ago and had to
wait a few days for someone to get around to adding me, so that
message isn't anything to get worried about.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
He can't make ends meet -- probably too many economists in the government.
    -- The Doctor, in "The Sunmakers"


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Mar 13 12:26:21 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:21 -0800
Subject: trackers (was: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
In-Reply-To: <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net>; from mwh@python.net on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 02:43:13PM +0000
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <a6nnsg$chc$1@panix1.panix.com> <u8z8wsey5.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <20020313092621.C2272@ActiveState.com>

[Michael Hudson wrote]
> Time to look at roundup again?  The tracker on sf is starting to piss
> me off (even more).

If you *are* going to get motivated to look at a different tracker *please*
consider bugzilla. You will find it a much more appropriate than roundup.

Trent

p.s. I am gonna regret feeding this.

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 04:14:30 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:14:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Unicode problem
References: <3c98f206.24909027@news.tiscali.no> <OG6m8.26452$n4.5185028@newsc.telia.net> <3c98faad.27124282@news.tiscali.no>
Message-ID: <Xns91D85CEBAF111duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

gargravarr at whoever.com wrote in news:3c98faad.27124282 at news.tiscali.no:

>>if you don't tell Python what 8-bit encoding you want
>>to use for a Unicode string, Python will assume ASCII.
> 
> How do I tell Python what 8-bit encoding I want to use ? Can I tell
> Python so I don't have to use encode?

site.py uses sys.setdefaultencoding to set the default encoding but it then 
does 'del sys.setdefaultencoding' to stop anyone else messing with it.

Your options (entirely at your own risk):
  Edit site.py to select a different default encoding.
  Edit site.py to remove the line that deletes sys.setdefaultencoding
  OR to recover a reference to setdefaultencoding:
     import sys; reload(sys)

I have no idea whether it is safe to call setdefaultencoding multiple 
times, although a quick play with the interpreter didn't reveal any massive 
problems. I also have no idea what effect reload(sys) may have on anything. 
I didn't even know you could reload a builtin module until I tried it.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 11:54:01 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:54:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Minor, minor style question
In-Reply-To: <5F9A347EAC81A19E.F4E6D6813EA4DC98.17114695240B3A22@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020301085401.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 01-Mar-2002 Cameron Laird wrote:
> Why would I prefer
>   string = ""
>   string = string + "abc "
>   string = string + "def "
>   string = string + "xyz"
> over
>   string = "abc " + \
>             "def " + \
>             "xyz"
> ?  I see a lot of the former in contexts I associate
> with Visual Basic- or JavaScript-majority folkways.
> Is there an attraction to the redundancy (and fragil-
> ity!) I'm missing?  Are \-s *so* deprecated?

According to posts by people like Tim Peters the preferred idiom is more like:

l = ["abc", "def", "xyz"]
s = string.join("", l)

i.e. build up a list of pieces through out the function and then join() them at
the end.



From boud at valdyas.org  Sat Mar  2 12:22:53 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:22:53 -0100
Subject: PyQT and shaped windows in X
References: <d906b2c1.0202280334.35f7942f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c80ef25$0$90048$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>

Moray Taylor wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone point me in the direction of an example of shaped windows
> using QT with Python, is the XLib module required? Is it even
> possible?
> 

Have you tried translating the tux example from the Qt examples directory?
I've attached a quick and dirty script. You should get the image from 
someplace yourself.

> BTW I have tried asking in the PyQT/PyKDE mailing list, but it wasn't
> considered to be a PyQT question, go figure.
> 

Well, it certainly isn't very Qt specific.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar 12 17:25:11 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:25:11 GMT
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
References: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfvj8.31478$l93.6217278@newsb.telia.net>

googlePoster wrote:
> python gurus:
>
> if I want to know if a variable exists before
> testing it, what do I do?

gurus don't write code that do stuff like that, but
never mind...

>    if locals().has_key("colors_name")

try:
    colors_name
except NameError:
    # doesn't exist
else:
    # does exist; do something

or:

try:
    # does it exist?
    colors_name
except NameError:
    colors_name = None
    # now it does

...

if colors_name:
    # do something

(etc)

</F>




From mcherm at destiny.com  Wed Mar  6 08:38:51 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:38:51 -0500
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <3C861BEB.60701@destiny.com>

Not that my opinion means anything, but I'll go ahead and express it anyhow.

  1) I think that  "for i in range(len(items)):"  is awkward, annoying,
     and detracts from Python. There should be a better way.

  2) When I first saw PEP 276 I thought "Hey!, that's a nice solution!
     We're not using iteration for integers for anything else, and I
     certainly agree that looping from 0 to x-1 IS the "most obvious"
     thing to do (in Python anyhow), so it's really quite nice.

  3) Since then I've seen objections, typified by the following:

> I can NEVER bring myself to see an integer as a collection,
> not outside of a lecture on number theory, anyway.
> 
> Sorry to rant, but this is the only idea for Python I've seen in a
> VERY long time, since the 1.5.2 days, where rather than capturing
> my interest and giving me something to contemplate, just strikes me
> as ugly, and stays ugly no matter how long I look at it.

      I still think it's a nice solution, but with the vehemence of
      the objections, I have to back off.

  4) The need to use  "for i in range(len(items)):"  is STILL awkward,
     and STILL needs some solution. "for 0 <= i < len(items):" just
     doesn't do it for me.  "for x in [0:len(items)]:" is a pain.
     Perhaps something as simple as  "for i in iterlen(items):" is the
     answer (and throw in  "for i, x in iteritems(items):"  too) would
     do the trick. I don't know.

-- Michael Chermside

PS: *PLEASE* disregard the whole "set theory" argument. I don't think
   that anyone defending PEP 276 is suggesting it as the motivation...
   that makes it a classic "straw man" retorical fallacy. It's a red
   herring... the real motivation is simply that "loop from 0 to x-1" is
   the "most obvious" way to "iterate an integer" *IF* such a thing were
   allowed in Python.




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 04:35:48 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:35:48 +0000
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:


> I don't count articles in a newsgroup saying "this is a good thing",
> "just continue with your efforts", "we definitely need this" as
> interest.  Instead, people contributing code, reporting bugs, or just
> using the system in their applications show interest. This is the case
> for Jython, but I don't think Armin or Christian got much actual code
> contributions. Likewise, when Mark would not deliver a win32all build
> for a few weeks, people would complain - but nobody would actually
> step forward and publish a build herself.

This could also just be a sign that there is interrest, but the people 
using win32all might not be able to publish a build themself?

Not everybody is as knowledgable as Mark, Even though we work on the 
superior Windows platform ;-)

regards Max M



From stephen at stephencox.org  Wed Mar 13 07:35:21 2002
From: stephen at stephencox.org (Stephen Cox)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:35:21 GMT
Subject: MySQL Library or Interface?
Message-ID: <dIHj8.24208$nw3.3259904@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>

Is there a MySQL library or some kind of framewrok available for Python?

--

Stephen Cox






From graz at mindless.com  Fri Mar 15 16:17:18 2002
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:17:18 +0000
Subject: Optimising list comparison
Message-ID: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>

A friend of mine is using Python in a research project where he needs to
compare each element of two vectors, such that comparing [a, b, c] and 
[d, e, f] would involve comparing a with d, b with e and c with f.

The only possible values in either list are 0, 1 and -1. When comparing
two values, if either value is set to -1 then both values are deemed to be
equal. So we've got:

    0 ==  0
    0 == -1
    1 ==  1
    1 == -1
    1 !=  0

What he wants to know is simply whether all the values in the two lists
are "equal", in which case the comparison returns 1, otherwise it returns
0.

Now, having read Skip M's python optimisation page I would have thought
that the following example could be beaten into the ground by an
alternative involving map(). Obviously, a C extension would win the grand
prize, but I'm interested in learning some map() tricks....

    list1 = [1] * 20
    list2 = [1] * 19 + [0]

    def compare():
        for i in range(len(list1)):
            a = list1[i]
            b = list2[i]
            if (a != b) and (a != -1) and (b != -1):
                return 0
        return 1

Neither of us have yet managed to come up with anything to beat it (we've
been timing the alternatives over 100000 itterations).

Any hints? What I can't work out how to do is how to break out of a call
to map() if two values don't match. The only thing I've come up with so 
far is this:

    func = lambda a, b: (a == b) or (a == -1) or (b == -1) or 1 / 0
    try:
        map(func, list1, list2)
    except ZeroDivisionError:
        pass

and though I felt quite smug when I'd thought of it, it's more than a bit
hacky. The raise and except also double the execution time on my machine.

Here's my complete script:

----cut----
#!/usr/bin/env python

import time

list1 = [1] * 20
## list1 = [1] * 9 + [0] + [1] * 10
list2 = [1] * 19 + [0]

def benchmark(func, iters=100000):
    start = time.time()
    for i in range(iters):
        r = func()
    end = time.time()
    print "%d iterations of %s took: %.3f secs" % (iters, func, end - start)

def attempt1():
    for i in range(len(list1)):
        if (list1[i] != list2[i]) and (list1[i] != -1) and (list2[i] != -1):
            return 0
    return 1

func = lambda a, b: (a == b) or (a == -1) or (b == -1) or 1 / 0

def attempt2():
    try:
        map(func, list1, list2)
    except ZeroDivisionError:
        pass

if __name__ == "__main__":
    benchmark(attempt1)
    benchmark(attempt2)
----cut----

Cheers,

Graham.


From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Tue Mar  5 11:26:06 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:26:06 GMT
Subject: python IDE, komodo
Message-ID: <3c84f0eb.27475796@news.easynews.net>

Hi,

I am looking for an Python IDE. Nothing extremly special, just
easy debugging, tracing maybe profiling. Is Komodo okay?
Is there something else (except Visual Studio .NET) I should 
look at. Something free would be nice.

Thanks,
Marcus


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar  5 09:14:14 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:14:14 -0600
Subject: OT - file permission checks on Windows
In-Reply-To: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEAJDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
References: <15491.48228.515787.419778@beluga.mojam.com>
        <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEAJDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
Message-ID: <15492.53942.960344.105700@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> Given this simple file access permission code: [...]  how would I do
    >> this under Windows?

    Jason> The following is not a joke.

Yup, no smilies. :-)

    Jason> Any Windows programmer would just "return 1".  

After seeing various responses, this is what I decided to do.  I figure some
Windows programmer who wants to earn his stripes can fix it.

    Jason> Note that even on Unix, the code you quoted isn't perfect.  Users
    Jason> can belong to multiple groups these days.

Good point.  I think I can beef up my code fairly easily in this area.

Thanks to all for the useful feedback.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From adina_levin at mindspring.com  Mon Mar 25 13:47:30 2002
From: adina_levin at mindspring.com (adina_levin at mindspring.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:47:30 -0600
Subject: Question: recursion and scope
Message-ID: <a7nrl8$snv$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Hello, Pythonistas.

I am attempting to teach myself some basic computer programming concepts
using Python.

I'm currently extending the recursive binary tree program in Programming
Python to traverse the tree and count its depth. The program successfully
traverses the tree and counts the number of nodes.

So far, though I haven't figured out how to calculate the "maximum depth" of
the tree without declaring "maxdepth" as a global variable.

If maxdepth is declared as a local variable within the recursive method, it
gets re-set for each subtree.

What am I missing?

Many thanks,

- Adina














From johnroth at ameritech.net  Mon Mar 25 07:24:57 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:24:57 -0500
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
References: <mailman.1017034718.25848.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u9u5f0ks9md66@news.supernews.com>

Since you're running a console app, I'd suggest two
changes to your test setup.

1) Execute the program from the DOS prompt, not from
PythonWin.
2) Redirect stdout to a file.

The first suggestion is simply to eliminate one possible
variable - if switching to a raw command prompt changes
something, you've got more data, if it doesn't, you've
eliminated a possible candidate.

At the command prompt, you can set up a .bat file
that runs the app very conveniently, and does the
redirection. It's a couple of keystrokes and mouse
taps more than running it under PythonWin, but I
find that it's worth it.

John Roth

"Nick Arnett" <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017034718.25848.python-list at python.org...
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: python-list-admin at python.org
> > [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Peter Hansen
>
>
> [snip]
>
> > By the way, how can Python code get "stuck"?  Is it a logic flaw,
> > or are you talking about the kind of "stuck" that used to happen,
> > in the "old days", when we were always writing code in languages
> > which would actually crash the computer?
>
> I'm using these vague adjectives because I can't tell what is
happening.
> Somewhere in the midst of retrieving pages with urllib and parsing
them with
> sgmllib, everything seems to stop.  And yes, it's a console app for
the
> moment.  I have a GUI that'll control it, but I'm working on pieces
that
> grab web pages, extract data and stick them in MySQL.  The only thing
I'm
> sure of is that it's not a problem with the database.  It happens at a
> different point each time, sometimes after a few dozen pages,
sometimes
> after a couple of hundred.  And I can re-do the same sequence of pages
and
> it'll freeze/loop/stop/whatever at a different point each time.  The
process
> is alive, there's no memory size change and it's consuming very few
CPU
> cycles when this happens.
>
> I'm working in PythonWin and I would have hoped that "break into
running
> code" would get me into it when this happens, so I could see where
it's
> getting stuck, but no, that would apparently be too convenient.
>
> Nick
>
>




From Gurdon_Merchant at ml.com  Mon Mar 11 09:22:48 2002
From: Gurdon_Merchant at ml.com (Gurdon Merchant, Jr.)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 06:22:48 -0800
Subject: win32com - Code snippet works in VBScript but not Python.
Message-ID: <484d9f6a.0203110622.7275204d@posting.google.com>

The Python win32com package works fine for most COM work.  However,
I'm having problems with cases where the reference is to be used to
invoke a method which creates another object.

Here is a VBScript snippet that works fine:

' START VBSCRIPT SNIPPET
' vbtest.vbs
Dim WshController
Set WshController = WScript.CreateObject("WshController")

Dim localVbscriptToRun
localVbscriptToRun = "c:\temp\test-script.vbs"

Dim remotePc
remotePc = WScript.Arguments(0)

Dim RemoteScript
Set RemoteScript = WshController.CreateScript(localVbscriptToRun,
remotePc)

' END VBSCRIPT SNIPPET

But the equivalent Python code:

# START PYTHON SNIPPET
# pytest.py

import sys
import win32com.client
WshController = win32com.client.Dispatch("WshController")

localVbscriptToRun = "c:\\temp\\test-script.vbs"

remotePc = sys.argv[1]

RemoteScript = WshController.CreateScript(localVbscriptToRun,
remotePc)

# END PYTHON SNIPPET

fails with this exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\temp\pytest.py", line 10, in ?
    RemoteScript = WshController.CreateScript(localVbscriptToRun,
remotePc)
  File "<COMObject WshController>", line 2, in CreateScript
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None,
None, None, 0, -2147024891), None)

To make the following code snippets run you must:
  1) Be on NT4 Sp6 or higher.
  2) ActiveState Python 2.1.212 (or Python with win32all).
  3 "Remote" = "1" (type REG_SZ) in:
     "HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows Script Host\Settings"
     on both local and remote PC (WshController requirement).
  4) Have Scripting engines 5.6 or higher installed.
  5) Have a c:\temp\test-script.vbs with at least a blank
     line.
  6) Invoke the code snippets with UNC (\\foo) format
     of name of a remote PC you have local administrator
     privs on (or use name of local PC).

The VBScript will execute correctly.  The Python code will not. 
win32com works for me in other examples.  I just seem to be having
problems in cases where I try to invoke a method on a returned object.
 That is, lines similar to "RemoteScript =
WshController.CreateScript(localVbscriptToRun)".

I appear to be missing some subtle point.  Can anyone shed some light
on it?


Thanks in advance,

Gurdon Merchant, Jr.
Gurdon_Merchant at ml.com


From nas at python.ca  Tue Mar 12 16:08:59 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:08:59 -0800
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
In-Reply-To: <a6lplc$lrg$1@panix1.panix.com>; from aahz@pythoncraft.com on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 03:49:48PM -0500
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <slrna8sind.nfu.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a6lplc$lrg$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020312130858.A27486@glacier.arctrix.com>

Aahz wrote:
> IIRC someone (Michael Hudson?) tried doing a bit of work with
> Parrot/Python as a proof of concept.

That was AMK.  It seems the Parrot guys are more interested in
micro-optimizations and adding regex support to the VM than in
supporting Python on Parrot.  Too bad.

  Neil



From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 21 08:31:17 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:31:17 +0100
Subject: How to install pychecker?
References: <jgmj9ucgm47i87dp6eie5l5frn65ntfrpl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a7cnb6$kfp6q$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote in message news:jgmj9ucgm47i87dp6eie5l5frn65ntfrpl at 4ax.com...
> I thought I'd try this out.
>
> In the absence of any instructions (that I can find) I tried unzipping
> it to a directory and running setup.py.
>
> I got this:
>
> C:\Program Files\pychecker-0.8.10>setup.py
> usage: setup.py [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
>    or: setup.py --help [cmd1 cmd2 ...]
>    or: setup.py --help-commands
>    or: setup.py cmd --help
>
> error: no commands supplied
>

The canonical way is 'setup.py install'. 'setup.py --help-commands'
shows you the available commands.

An even easier way, which does also give you the ability to
uninstall, is demonstrated in the ASPN Cookbook:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/117248

Thomas





From pete at dexterslab.de  Fri Mar 29 07:14:48 2002
From: pete at dexterslab.de (Henning Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:14:48 +0100
Subject: chat server
References: <B8C97068.C30E%pete@dexterslab.de> <3CA4544D.6646CB30@q-survey.be>
Message-ID: <a81lov$kk7$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> Don't reinvent the wheel. Use asyncore.py and asynchat.py, it's
> part of the standard Python library.

hmm, but it's fun for me to make my own way...

bye,
henning





From kirill_simonov at mail.ru  Fri Mar  8 12:06:44 2002
From: kirill_simonov at mail.ru (Kirill Simonov)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:06:44 +0200
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <553719390.20020307212819@neosynapse.net>
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <553719390.20020307212819@neosynapse.net>
Message-ID: <20020308170644.GA710@abulafia.local>

* Steven D. Arnold <stevena at neosynapse.net>:
> 2. Some have asked why one would not use vars() and the mapping format
> all the time, since vars returns a dictionary of the local namespace?
> The problem with vars() is that (at least as far as I know) it doesn't
> support dictionaries, lists, object attributes and function calls.


### xstring.py ###

import sys

class XDict:
    def __init__(self, globals, locals):
        self.globals = globals
        self.locals = locals
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        return eval(key, self.globals, self.locals)

def xstring(string):
    frame = sys._getframe(1)
    return string % XDict(frame.f_globals, frame.f_locals)

def test():
    import math
    x = y = 2
    s1 = "%(x)s + %(y)s = %(x+y)s"
    s2 = "sin(pi/4) = %(math.sin(math.pi/4))0.4f"
    s3 = "Python-%(sys.version[:3])s"
    for s in [s1, s2, s3]:
        print "xstring(%r) == %r" % (s, xstring(s))

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()

### EOF ###


-- 
xi



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar  7 20:29:49 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:29:49 -0500
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
In-Reply-To: <DcUh8.36711$nl1.5581667@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEGHOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Skip Montanaro]
> Whether or not you want to be able to check files into the CVS
> repository, if you want to contribute, you should probably subscribe
> to the python-dev mailing list.  You can subscribe here:
>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

[Darrell]
> Have you changed to acceptance criteria?

Guido did, yes.  You still have to be approved, but the acceptance criteria
changed from "Guido has reason(s) to want you there" to "Guido doesn't have
reason(s) to want you somewhere else".

> Last time I tried to join that list they told me to go away.

"They" would have been one of Barry Warsaw and Jeremy Hylton.  If you
couldn't figure out from the subscription page that they're the Python-Dev
administrators, maybe you're not really ready yet to develop Python <wink>.

> Filled my time up with other things since then.

You could have had more fun writing a Python program to try subscribing
every hour under a different one-shot email account!  Driving Barry and
Jeremy nuts is loads of fun, and easy to do.




From abou at cam.org  Sat Mar 30 17:58:30 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:58:30 -0500
Subject: seek()
Message-ID: <3CA64316.919436E4@cam.org>

Is there a kind of seek() function that does the same thing but except
of bytes, it seeks for a string? Basically, I want the 5 next bytes
after a certain string in a file. Example:
Foo:36.50
The data I want (36.50) is located on a web page and since the content
of that page always change, I can't get it with seek() because the bytes
always change too. I've checked in STRING and RE modules but I can't
find a function that checks in a file/webpage, they all need input from
a string. 

-- 
Zutroi Zatatakowski
Commando PACU
http://pacu.cjb.net



From amoustafa at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 04:29:52 2002
From: amoustafa at pobox.com (Ahmed Moustafa)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:29:52 GMT
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3C985678.8010200@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> 
> 3. The best support for either Java or Python is probably in 
> their respective newsgroups.  Python's is widely known as being
> one of the most polite and helpful.  The language has been
> around a little longer as well, and as it's not largely a 
> commercial venture this might suggest that the "support"
> question is a bit of a red herring.  Do you regularly contact
> the Microsoft for help with VB, or Sun for help with Java?
> (Or did you mean who is "backing" the language, ensuring
> its continued viability.  The answer to that is twofold:
> look at the 11+ year age of Python as historical proof
> it's not a flash in the pan, and note it's _open source_
> so it cannot, by definition, lose viability while people
> support and use it.  You can always get the source.)
> 


For example, where I work, we have JRE for OS/390 (by IBM). Is there a mainframe interpreter for Python? Or, will Jython do?

> 

-- 
Ahmed Moustafa



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Mar 29 23:21:56 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 06:21:56 +0200
Subject: multicast test program
References: <mailman.1017391904.2446.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kubsd6r8gr.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.1017391904.2446.python-list at python.org>, Brian Lee
<senux at senux.com> writes:

| Is there any python code which test multicast?

Demo/sockets/mcast.py (predictably enough).

  -- erno


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 17:57:13 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:57:13 GMT
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <7xd6xwntgx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <c76ff6fc.0203230339.48961684@posting.google.com> <A51n8.216264$uv5.18611282@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <c76ff6fc.0203231305.7eb20123@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cL7n8.51326$2q2.4573073@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:c76ff6fc.0203231305.7eb20123 at posting.google.com...
> "Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<A51n8.216264$uv5.18611282 at bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...

> > or, I believe, change the last line to
> >      print counts[w], w
>
> The basis for whatever it is you believe apparently doesn't include
> running the code.

Whoops, I misread something and posted too quickly.  I normally do run
stuff before posting to avoid just this sort of mistake 8-(.




From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 10:52:46 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:52:46 +0000
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com> <mailman.1016636107.1525.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24bh9u4lmkj47e1jufc1c26od21gd0eq50@4ax.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:

>You could save this in a file and execute it with "python -i file.py".

That's true but it doesn't overcome the problem of having to quit
after each error - which is what I find so irritating because it is so
time consuming

>It seems to work here:
>
>[niemeyer at ibook niemeyer]$ echo 'a = 1' > mod.py
>>>> import mod
>>>> mod.a
>1
>
>[niemeyer at ibook niemeyer]$ echo 'a = 2' > mod.py
>>>> reload(mod)
><module 'mod' from 'mod.py'>
>>>> mod.a
>2

This is a rather simple case. More comlex cases with classes don't
behave so reliably.

>Have you looked at pdb?

Yes but this looks pretty much like a primitive form of what Pythonwin
does for you.

--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sun Mar  3 01:43:15 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 06:43:15 GMT
Subject: Can somebody kill getpathp for me?
References: <mailman.1014963902.19377.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C81C613.8000409@skippinet.com.au>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Chris Gonnerman]

> Have you tried setting PYTHONHOME?  If, e.g., I set PYTHONHOME to \Python22,
> then execute python while *in* my \Python21 directory (these both referring
> to PythonLabs distros), then Python 2.1.2 comes up with sys.path pointing
> entirely at Python 2.2 directories.  This is insane, but shows that
> PYTHONHOME works the way getpathp.c says it works.

insane by design ;)  PYTHONHOME was supposed to be a global override.

Didn't someone promise to document all this once? <wink>

>>What I want is a version of either python.exe or python21.dll
>>(whichever contains the offending getpathp.c module) with the
>>registry-probing code disabled.
>>
> 
> If that's what you really want, you'll have to edit getpathp.c and compile
> your own Python.

Or, use MSVC or some other resource editor to change the single string 
resource in the compiled Pythonxx.DLL (ie, no need to rebuild the DLL). 
  This will cause a different registry key to be used (by the core, and 
also by extensions that are registry aware).

Mark.



From fgeiger at datec.at  Wed Mar 13 12:58:57 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:58:57 +0100
Subject: python and analyze image format?
References: <87henkickf.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>
Message-ID: <a6o40j$5t7$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

Could PIL be what you are after? See www.pythonware.com

Cheers
Franz


"Michael A. Miller" <mmiller3 at iupui.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:87henkickf.fsf at lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu...
> Anybody know of a python reader/write for analyze image data and
> header files?  Would you provide a pointer if you do?
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Michael A. Miller                               mmiller3 at iupui.edu
>   Imaging Sciences, Department of Radiology, IU School of Medicine




From grante at visi.com  Wed Mar  6 18:37:54 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:37:54 GMT
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mLxh8.14207$N7.3221308@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list at python.org>, Geoff Gerrietts wrote:

> People don't get smarter as they get older,

They certainly do (using just about any definition of "smarter"
I can imagine) for the first year or two while the nervous
system completes mylenization.

After that, you may be able come up with a definition of
"smarter" for which your statement is true.

> People don't get "smarter" as they get older, though they do develop
> strategies for learning that enable them to learn things more quickly.

I'd call that getting smarter.  :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Imagine--a WORLD
                                  at               without POODLES...
                               visi.com            


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 19 17:20:39 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 22:20:39 GMT
Subject: Newbie: word count and Win32
References: <e9cd3ea2.0203190421.904cdfb@posting.google.com> <a786tq$s81$0@216.39.172.122> <kr8f9ukbg3n3i3oghrues7ir93rub2tuo2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a78djn$bac$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:51:22 GMT, Joe Christl <jScPhArMistl at att.net> wrote:

>On 19 Mar 2002 20:26:34 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>
>>From a quick look that[1] script, it looks like it expects to read
>>from stdin only. I.e., it says
>>
>>    # iterate over each line on stdin
>>    for line in sys.stdin.readlines() :
>>        ...
>
>I emailed the author of the post (Derrick Hudson) and that was what he told me
>too.  
>
>>
>>To feed the script's stdin you'll have to redirect or pipe data to it.
>>To pipe stuff on windows to a python script you have to run the interpreter
>>(python) explicitly one way or another, so I would try:
>>
>>    python count.py < foo.txt
>>
>>or you could pipe the output of the windows type command, like:
>>
>>    type foo.txt | python count.py
>
>The < redirect didn't seem to work from a Win32 standpoint.  I tried the:
>
>python count.py < foo.txt 
>...and...
>python count.py foo.txt
>
>... with failed results.  I forgot about the pipe |
>
The script worked unchanged for me on NT4 using

    python count.py < foo.txt 

Were you in a console window with foo.txt in your current directory?
(Did you have a foo.txt file with some data? ;-)

If you con't have some data handy, use the file itself:

    python count.py < count.py

Try it again, and post a verbatim copy of your screen where it fails (if it does).
(to copy windows console text, use Alt=Spacebar>E>K or the system menu in the top left
and Edit>Mark. Then select by mousing a box to enclose the text, and press Enter. Then
paste that into your post. Then we can see what the "failed results" were ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 17 13:13:21 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:13:21 -0500
Subject: sunstring
References: <0r4l8.22204$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C94DCC1.748EDC18@engcorp.com>

Billy Ng wrote:
> 
> Would anybody tell me how to do substring in python?

Use slices.  And look at the string module.

Have you gone through the tutorials yet?

-Peter


From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 11 10:33:48 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 07:33:48 -0800
Subject: scripting Outlook express with Python
References: <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06@posting.google.com> <OfZi8.5$ID.116@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203110733.31e48030@posting.google.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote
> If you want to customize your mail client, you're using the wrong OS. All 
> the customizability is over here in Linux, with procmail and sendmail and 
> fetchmail and all sorts of great stuff that you've never even dreamed of - 
> even in those really wild dreams where you use your computer for a month 
> and it doesn't crash once.

Your point is well taken. Actually, I've had the move in mind for some
time, and am hoping to ease the transition by getting used to the
cygwin environment, and using cross platform tools as often as I can.
However, I don't think I'm quite ready yet, and if I do make the move
I don't know whether it will be to linux or to Mac OS X.

At-least-I-can-be-sure-that-python-will-be-around-for-whatever-OS-ly-yrs,

Sandy


From ron.l.johnson at cox.net  Mon Mar  4 02:12:20 2002
From: ron.l.johnson at cox.net (Ron Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:12:20 GMT
Subject: Converting mailbox formats
Message-ID: <o7Fg8.35969$jC3.925924@news1.east.cox.net>

Hi,

Are there pythonic methods for converting the MH message header 
format to the mbox message header format?

TIA,
Ron
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ron Johnson, Jr.        Home: ron.l.johnson at cox.net        |
| Jefferson, LA  USA      http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81    |
|                                                            |
| 484,246 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4   !
! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.                |
! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri.                  !
! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom.       |
+------------------------------------------------------------+


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Mar 11 05:59:52 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:59:52 +0000
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hans Nowak wrote:
> It's not April 1st yet...

Considering Brad's article was posted on 2001-07-02, it certainly wasn't at 
that time... ;-)
Can anyone using a recent version of Microsoft development tools confirm 
whether it's a hoax or not? If it isn't, this is bad news...
 - eric -



From dieter at handshake.de  Thu Mar 14 16:12:59 2002
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 22:12:59 +0100
Subject: GC thread safe?
Message-ID: <x73cz2etus.fsf@linux.local>

Several Zope users face crashing Python 2.1.2 (SIGSEGV inside
the garbage collector). The problem only occurs when
the following conditions are true:

  *  Zope runs in multi-threaded mode

  *  the cyclic garbage collector is not deactivated

Is the cyclic garbage collector known to be thread safe?


Dieter


From theller at python.net  Thu Mar 21 13:24:06 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:24:06 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org...
>
> PEP 262 still has many, *many* XXX comments marking potential issues
> that need to be cleared up before it can be implemented.  Most aren't
> particulaly complicated, just cases where I'm not sure if a feature is
> needed or if it's just extra fluff.
>

Are you interested in my remarks to the XXX comments *now*?

> Once those uncertainties are cleaned up, I'll try to get it
> implemented for the Python 2.3 time frame.
>
Great!

Thomas




From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar  6 10:12:23 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:12:23 +0000
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
In-Reply-To: <15494.11947.195706.267254@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <3C86047F.1080601@stroeder.com> <slrna8c26g.eug.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91C993F0DB5BEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <15494.11947.195706.267254@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20020306151223.GD10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 08:58:51AM -0600, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Duncan> I vote for (3):
>     Duncan>   db.query("""SELECT    foo, bar
>     Duncan>               FROM      %(table)s
>     Duncan>               WHERE     rsrc_id = %(rsrc_id)s
>     Duncan>               AND       name = '%(name)s'" % vars())
> 
> Which will work most of the time, but fail if name contains any apostrophes.
> As was mentioned before, that's why the DB API supports a query method that
> does its own variable interpolation.  Different databases quote things in
> different ways.

We seem to be getting mixed up over two seperate issues here, which we
should try to keep seperate:

1. Whether $table style string interpolation is a desirable or
   necessary addition to python.

2. How to do variable interpolation in SQL strings.

For my money, issue 2 is addressed as above by Skip (ie let the DB API
sort it out), and the question mark over 1 is: why is $table style
necessary when we've got %(table) style?

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From jason at jorendorff.com  Thu Mar 14 07:17:37 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:17:37 -0600
Subject: Good book on Python?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMEFODJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Antonis C Koutalos wrote:
>  I would greatly appreciate information about a good book on python. I
> have been programming C for a few years, but I know next to nothing about
> python. Therefore, I would appreciate a book that describes the basics of
> python as well as the more advanced features of the language.

Start with
  http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/

You might not need a book.  I never bought one.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From pxl at sonic.net  Thu Mar 28 00:50:14 2002
From: pxl at sonic.net (Paul Archibald)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:50:14 GMT
Subject: C API for modules
References: <3CA09F43.80206@erols.com>
Message-ID: <3CA2AEFE.BB31C3A5@sonic.net>

I am new to python, and am also interested in the c/c++ api. My problem is
that when I look at the tutorial code, it says "#include <python.h>". I
don't have such a file on my Mac. Where can I get it, and what other parts
come with it that will help me build c/c++ extensions?

"Edward C. Jones" wrote:

> Is there some simple way to call functions in modules from C? In
> particular, for module struct, how do I call pack, unpack, and calcsize?
>
> Thanks,
> Ed Jones



From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Mon Mar 18 15:29:14 2002
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:29:14 +0100
Subject: Generating getter methods with exec
Message-ID: <3C964E1A.84D5A26B@ndh.net>

I would like to generate some getter methods in a class which in fact
access a stored dictionary. Unfortunately, I'm not able to get it work.

Suppose the following code is in getter_test.py:

class GetterTest:
    def __init__(self):
        self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
                      'key2': 'two',
                      'key3': 'three'}

    def _make_getters(self, dict_name, key_list):
        for key in key_list:
            code = ( "def %(key)s(self):\n"
                     "    return self.%(dict_name)s['%(key)s']\n" %
                     vars() )
            print code
            # this seems to be wrong but what should that be?
            exec code in globals(), self.__dict__

    def key3(self):
        return self._dict['key3']

In the interpreter (Python 2.2) I get:

>>> import getter_test
>>> gt = getter_test.GetterTest()
>>> gt._make_getters('_dict', ['key1', 'key2'])
def key1(self):
    return self._dict['key1']

def key2(self):
    return self._dict['key2']
>>> gt.key1()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: key1() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

As can be seen, gt.key1() doesn't behave as expected (at least as
expected by me ;-) ).

>>> gt.key1(gt)
'one'

This works, but needs an additional instance parameter which corresponds
to this observation:

>>> gt.key1
<function key1 at 0xa662c>

though I would rather like

>>> gt.key3
<bound method GetterTest.key3 of <getter_test.GetterTest instance at 0xa648c>>

Can anyone tell me how I can generate the evaluated code as bound
methods instead of functions? Many thanks in advance for any help! :-)

Stefan


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Tue Mar 19 02:50:10 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:50:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Java and Python
In-Reply-To: <3C96E79F.4010802@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203190239510.11727-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Ahmed Moustafa wrote:

> Delaney, Timothy wrote:
>
> >>From: Ahmed Moustafa [mailto:amoustafa at pobox.com]
> >>
> >>1. Where can I find an unbiased comparison between Java and Python?
> >>
> >
> > Nowhere. The best place to look though is
> >
> > http://www.python.org/doc/Comparisons.html
> >
> > which has comparisons with various languages.
>
>
> I knew about those articles and I felt they were biased to Python.

Well -- you can have biased towards Python or biased towards Java,
but you can't get unbiased anywhere!


> >>3. Who does support Python?
> >>
> >
> > What type of support are you talking about? If you want commercial support,
> > I think ActiveState gives it. If you are talking about who maintains and
> > enhances Python, that's the Python development team in general (but with a
> > lot of community involvement.
>
>
> I understand Microsystems supports Java. Who does play the same role for
> Python?

Nobody supports "Java", although often someone supports particular
implementations of Java. ( Sun supports J2SE SDK, Apple supports
MRJ, and there are open source compiler implementations like IBM's
Jikes. )

-- Steve Majewski






From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Mar  9 09:09:20 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 16:09:20 +0200
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <kuelivht8g.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <B8AEE297.4C02%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <kuadthj0j3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <B8AEE297.4C02%pereira at cis.upenn.edu>, Fernando Pereira
<pereira at cis.upenn.edu> writes:

| On 3/8/02 12:19 PM, in article kuelivht8g.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi, "Erno Kuusela"
| <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

|| In article <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira at cis.upenn.edu>, Fernando Pereira
|| <pereira at cis.upenn.edu> writes:
|| 
|| | Another reason is that a JIT compiler may not help Python as much as Java,
|| | because [...]
|| 
|| i think the last time there was an in-depth thread about this, many
|| people speculated that a jit compiler could infact help python a lot.
|| (perhaps a jit compiler can help java even more.)
|| smalltalk and self implementation techniques were discussed.

| The irreducible fact is that Python needs extensive runtime type checks,
| Java doesn't.

yes, java has an advantage in this respect. but still, there is no
reason to abandon the idea, since people have previously been
quite succesful in making dynamically typed languages execute faster
than python currently does.

i think one optimization was that you dynamically profile the
execution of the program and see if some functions always (or almost always)
get the same type of arguments. then you compile a native code
equivalent of the function that assumes those frequently encountered
types, with a check in the beginning for the mispredicted types case.

(for some functions i think it might hep if you take the call site
into account, so you'd have a (call site, function) -> optimized-code
mapping.)

i'm sure there are many more techniques, this is just one that i
happen to remember and which seems it could offer a large speedup.

  -- erno





From shalehperry at attbi.com  Thu Mar 14 02:34:51 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:34:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
In-Reply-To: <a6oh40.3vsen5b.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020313233451.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> I understand how it works logically. I simply thought there might've been
> some tricky C implementation of list comprehensions that improved
> performance.
> 

even if it was coded in hand tuned assembly it would be slower than the
dictionary method because the algorithm is inherently slow.  Every pass of the
for i in list loop must make an entire walk of the other list.  No matter how
fast you make the walking, you still have to walk.  Jog a mile, walk a mile it
is still a mile.

The dictionary version is faster because the key lookup does not have to check
every key.



From perryrain at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 18:10:40 2002
From: perryrain at hotmail.com (dskhdskf dsfhs)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:10:40 +0000
Subject: marcos and .pyc
Message-ID: <F157E1B4D0OvvbtmHPt00018988@hotmail.com>


Is there a feature in the basic python for doing inline marcos (similar to 
the ones found in C and C++)? Also is there a way to specify where .pyc 
files are to be deposited?

Chris

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com




From info at researchnetwork.com  Thu Mar  7 22:41:42 2002
From: info at researchnetwork.com (ResearchNetwork.com)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 03:41:42 -0000
Subject: Research Network Job Site
Message-ID: <1015558902.39507.qmail@ech>

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From rliebsch at cogsci.ucsd.edu  Mon Mar 18 19:01:46 2002
From: rliebsch at cogsci.ucsd.edu (Rob Liebscher)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 16:01:46 -0800
Subject: Dictionary as non-iterable object?
Message-ID: <265fffe3.0203181601.21c10ba@posting.google.com>

Hi,

My apologies for the simplicity of this question, and if it's been
discussed before.  (I'm very new to Python.)  The deal is this: using
the IDLE interpreter (directly from www.python.org), I can do the
following:

>>> D = {(4, 6): 13, (4, 3): 12, (5, 2): 11, (2, 5): 8, (1, 2): 9}
>>> for x,y in D:
	print D[(x,y)]

13
12
11
8
9
10
>>> 

Fine, right?  Unfortunately, ActiveState's latest version does not
allow me to do this, saying that I can't iterate over a dictionary's
keys.  This happens regardless of how many vars I use: for x, for x,y,
and for x,y,z all complain.  (IDLE complains on the first and third
because of a tuple unpack of the wrong size.)

Any ideas?  I just want to be able to iterate over all entries in a
dictionary that has 2-tuples as keys, as in the above, so a method to
do this would be a satisfactory answer.  Thanks.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Mar  7 22:19:56 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:19:56 -0500
Subject: Module Search Path?
References: <3c87e781.62223437@news>
Message-ID: <3C882DDC.AAD39898@engcorp.com>

brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
> 
> I want to store the modules I have written in their own directory.
> When I add it to the search path with sys.path.append the changes are
> made for one session only. How can I make permanent changes to the
> search path? I am using ActivePython 2.1 (PythonWin) in Win98.

You could create a .pth file in the Python directory.  See the
comments in site.py for details.  Alternatively, working with
PYTHONPATH would get you there, but it's uglier.


From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Mar 21 13:53:59 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 18:53:59 GMT
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <a7d8g8$khnnh$1 at ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>, Thomas Heller wrote:
> Are you interested in my remarks to the XXX comments *now*?

Of course!

--amk


From jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net  Fri Mar  8 14:08:20 2002
From: jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net (jason petrone)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:08:20 +0000
Subject: hotmail
References: <mailman.1015102571.6690.python-list@python.org> <a689ml$cbf9b$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de> <899f842.0203071410.7a0895c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <472b6a.1id.ln@demonseed.net>

Anthony_Barker <anthony_barker at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I use one written in perl (ya I know...) called gotmail.pl. It works
> great but uses curl under linux. You could easily rewrite it in
> python.

I use gotmail.  It works great!

jlp


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 06:52:05 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 12:52:05 +0100
Subject: Problem with Tkinter
References: <a82cne$aef$1@wanadoo.fr> <m3pu1nui7l.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <a848ft$i19$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <m3u1qycly2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Cyr" <cd.cd at wanadoo.fr> writes:

> Thanks a lot for the help, I will try it.
> By the way, do you know which path is used to search for Tk libraries ? Can
> I change it manually in the Module/Setup file (after I ran ./configure) ?

Depends on what you mean by "Tk libraries". If you are talking about
the shared libraries (libtk83.so), please read your operation system
manual on how your operating system finds shared libraries (hint:
both LD_LIBRARY_PATH and -Wl,-R options might be considered).

If you are talking about the .tcl files that Tk uses at startup: those
are found through a compiled-in default (compiled into Tcl). You can
use TCL_LIBRARY and TK_LIBRARY to override those locations.

If you are talking about the part of sys.path used to find Tkinter.py
and friends: this is in Modules/Setup.

Regards,
Martin



From mlammon at nc.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 13:01:48 2002
From: mlammon at nc.rr.com (Mike Lammon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:01:48 -0500
Subject: Telnetlib - Clearing/resetting within a Telnet Object
Message-ID: <3C977D0C.B925E0EF@nc.rr.com>

I am writing a small server program to interact with an external
machine.   (It is non-unix).    The program connects fine.  It
issues the commands and receives data fine (most of the time).


This is the problem.  The machine I am connected too sends out
system messages, etc to users who are connected (telnet).  I
can't turn off these system messages so that is not an option.

The next time I issue a command from the client side, It
will return the data but its not from the current command
issued.  It returns the next serious of data in sequence.

I need a way to clear/reset (without destroying the telnet
session) , then issue the current command.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Mike



From mxl at fluent.com  Tue Mar 19 14:17:39 2002
From: mxl at fluent.com (Mohammed Lazreg)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:17:39 -0500
Subject: nested_scopes with execfile
References: <10ecacee.0203190845.4fa4e35d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C978ED3.E4AE32EC@fluent.com>

Here is what I believe is happening:

when the interpreter enters the code block of f2 and finds f1 name, it
tries to resolve it using the nearest enclosing scope. So if you execute
Test2.py alone it will work because the enclosing scope is Test2.py
itself which does define f1 , but when you try to load Test2.py from
Test1.py the nearest enclosing scope of f2 scope is Test1.py which does
not define f1, hence the error....

If you change your Test2.py to this, it will works in both cases:

-----------------
def f1():
    print "OK it works"
def f2(arg):
    arg()

f2(f1)
----------------

$ ../Python-2.2/python Test2.py
OK it works
$ ../Python-2.2/python Test1.py
OK it works


Mohamed

Amir Hadar wrote:

> Hi
>
> I've encountered a problem when executing a file within a function:
>
> #----- Test1.py ------------------
> from __future__ import nested_scopes
>
> def f():
>     execfile("Test2.py")
>
> f()
> # EOF Test1.py -------------------
>
> #--------Test2.py ----------------
> def f1():
>     print "OK it works"
> def f2():
>     f1()
>
> f2()
> #EOF Test2.py --------------------
>
> When executing the Test1.py the following error is displayed:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Test1.py", line 6, in ?
>     f()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Test1.py", line 4, in f
>     execfile("Test2.py");
>   File "Test2.py", line 8, in ?
>     f2()
>   File "Test2.py", line 6, in f2
>     f1()
> NameError: global name 'f1' is not defined
>
> The reson that I need this is because I want to make a "Load" funtion
> that will execute the given file (e.g. Load("Yada.py")) and then will
> run a function in that file (e.g. def Init():).
>
> In the example I gave the second file ("Test2.py") is loaded to the
> local environment of the function f() in the first file (Test1.py).
> Therefore the functions f1 and f2 are in that env. Now, When f2 calls
> f1 it should resolve its variables in the enclosing environment which
> is the env of f (Test1.py) but it doen't.
>
> Help Me.
>          Amir.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> This message has been 'sanitized'.  This means that potentially
> dangerous content has been rewritten or removed.  The following
> log describes which actions were taken.
>
> [ score: 10 ]
> 00189   Split long word(s) in header.
>
> Anomy 0.0.0 : sanitizer.pl
> $Id: sanitizer.pl,v 1.35 2001/02/01 00:10:46 bre Exp $




From mgash at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 09:23:40 2002
From: mgash at trisystems.co.uk (Mark Gash)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:23:40 -0000
Subject: WIN32 Performance Data Helper problem
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCC7780@intrepid>

Platform: 		Windows NT 4 (server and workstation)
Dev Environment: 	PythonWin 2.2
			win32all-146


I have written a script which monitors the disk space for Windows NT
machines. If the counter exceeds a set limit, then an email message is sent
to the administrator stating which machine and local disk is 'getting full'.
Once the comparisons have completed, the script sleeps for 2 hours then
re-enters the performance data collection/checking, sleeps for 2 hours....
ad infinitum

The problem is that the script does not work on NT 4 Servers, although it
works on NT4 clients. When the script is run on an NT 4 Server, the script
enters the while loop and fails at the performance collection phase. The
more serious issue is that there is no apparent errors thrown either by
Python or by NT itself. The script prints the line "Entering the while loop"
(as included in the extracted script) but then does nothing else.

I have attempted to research into the problem, and found that the script
failed on some workstations in a similar manner. I pinpointed this problem
down to being a missing pdh.dll from the %WINNT%/system32 directory. Once
this file was added, the clients worked ok.

Although I have attempted this resolution with the Servers, they are still
failing.

A brief extract of the script is contained below, [PS I am a newbie to
Python, so please try not to be too harsh about by coding ;-) ] .Also
detailed is the log created when the Server ran the script. If required, the
full script can be posted.

Any assistance in this matter would be gratefully received.

import sys
import os
import string                # required for string manipulation
import smtplib               # required for the emailing bits
import win32pdhutil          # for the Performance Data  Helper(utils)
methods
import win32pdh          # for the Performance Data Helper methods
import time                  # guess what? needed for time functions (sleep
and now)
import ConfigParser          # needed to read/write the ini files
import socket                # needed for the gethostname function
import win32api              # Two Win32 API's that are needed to query what
drives
import win32file             # are both fixed and on the local machine

def machinename():
    #get the hostname of the local machine
    return socket.gethostname()

def main(): 
    machinename = machinename()
    # analyse what drives are local HDD
    drives = [drive for drive in
win32api.GetLogicalDriveStrings().split('\x00')[:-1] if
win32file.GetDriveType(drive) == win32file.DRIVE_FIXED]
    #prepare the dictionary, depending on number of local drives
    for drive in drives:
        drive = drive[0]
        drive = drive + ":"
        counter[drive] = 0
    while 1:
        spam.logfile.write(now() + "     Entering while loop " + "\n")
        #read in performance data
        #compare values from performance data with the preset hwm
        # if the perf. data exceeds the hwm, then send an email alert
        for drive in drives:
            drive = drive[0]
            drive = drive + ":"
       # THIS IS THE LINE CAUSING PROBLEMS WITH NT SERVERS
            perfdata =
win32pdhutil.GetPerformanceAttributes("LogicalDisk","% Free Space",
"0/"+drive, -1, 256, machinename )
       # END - THIS IS THE LINE CAUSING PROBLEMS WITH NT SERVERS
            if perfdata <= setup.freelwmpercentage:
                counter[drive] += 1
            else:
                #do nothing
                pass
            if perfdata > setup.freelwmpercentage and counter[drive] > 0:
                #gradually return the counter back to zero as everything is
rosy...
                counter[drive] -= 1
            else:
                #do nothing
                pass
            if counter[drive] == 0:
                #do nothing as everything is 'hunky doory'
                pass
            elif counter[drive] > 11:
                spam.logfile.write(now() + "     Disk usage exceeds LWM
(minor)" + "\n")
                dcsend.send(drive, machinename, "LWM")
            elif perfdata < setup.freehwmpercentage:
                spam.logfile.write(now() + "     Disk usage exceeds HWM
(MAJOR)" + "\n")
                dcsend.send(drive, machinename, "HWM")
        time.sleep(7200) #wait for 2 hours then go back to the while
loop....
    #tidy up and close all open files
    spam.resultsclose()
    
if __name__ == '__main__':
    global strDirName 
    strDirName = ((os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0]))) + "\\")
    main()


The output from the log looks like this:-

*****************Start of Disk Checker Log File*****************
Wed Mar 27 11:02:36 2002     License Checker started
Wed Mar 27 11:02:37 2002     Entering while loop 



Kind Regards,

Mark Gash
Consultant
TriSystems Ltd.
020 7264 0440
mgash at trisystems.co.uk







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From bokr at oz.net  Mon Mar  4 01:26:13 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 06:26:13 GMT
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
References: <24c39b2c.0203021850.7679418c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015125072.16815.python-list@python.org> <24c39b2c.0203031100.33d57b3d@posting.google.com> <TSug8.22747$n4.4298824@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <a5v425$e4d$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:32:03 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>Alexander Jerusalem wrote:
>
>> Ok, thanks for your reply. Here's my output:
>>
>> >>> import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc
>> >>> con = odbc.connect("se", "scienceexile", "x")
>> >>> c = con.cursor()
>> >>> c.execute("select * from country")
>> >>> print c.fetchone()
>> ('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)
>> >>> c.close()
>> >>> con.close()
>>
>> And it's the same when I write the resultset to a file, so I don't
>> believe that it's just a display problem.
>
>on the other hand:
>
>>>> print '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn'
>?sterreich-Ungarn
>
More illustration (clipped from IDLE with 2.1) using
example data from above:

 >>> print ('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)
 ('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)
 >>> print ('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)[1]
 ?sterreich-Ungarn

and

 >>> oe = ('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)[1][0]
 >>> print oe, `oe`, str(oe), repr(oe), (oe, hex(ord(oe)))
 ? '\xd6' ? '\xd6' ('\xd6', '0xd6')
                    ^^^^^^

I.e., it's not the data character, it's the presentation
that depends on context here.

HTH
Regards,
Bengt Richter

>more info here:
>
>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html
>
>    "The interpreter prints the result of string operations in the
>    same way as they are typed for input: inside quotes, and
>    with quotes and other funny characters escaped by back-
>    slashes, to show the precise value"
>
>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/strings.html
>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/exprstmts.html
>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/print.html
>    (etc)
>
></F>
>
><!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
>http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
>-->
>
>



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 12:40:09 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:40:09 +0000
Subject: OpenContact.org
References: <3CA1E66E.1070205@opencontact.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaa40vp.26c.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:35:32 GMT, William Levin <oc at opencontact.org> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>This is an invitation for Open Source enthusiasts and contact management 
>software developers to join OpenContact.org, a new online forum for the 
>discussion of contact management systems.
>
>The ultimate goal of OpenContact.org is to explore options for 
>integrating a centralized contact management database into the operating 
>system; and to develop an extensive set of standard fields (akin to 
>vCard) for universally compatible contact management.  This would allow 
>every third-party application on a computer to access the same contact 
>data set, and eliminate the need to import and export contact data on a 
>single system.

That sounds interesting. I might add this sort of functionality to 
Herbivore at some point.



-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From narnett at mccmedia.com  Sun Mar 24 22:43:36 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:43:36 -0800
Subject: Debugging on windows via print statements -- reliable?
Message-ID: <NDBBLAEMOMEHKALAMKKJEENFJMAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>

As I try to track down why my code is getting stuck (in a situation where it
could take ages to step through in the debugger), I'm using print statements
so that I can see where it's just been before it freezes.  Trouble is, I'm
not seeing much consistency in when (how many iterations) or where (in the
code) it stops responding.

Now I'm wondering if way of creating signposts is reliable.  Is it possible
that it's actually hanging up somewhere without actually outputting some of
my print statements, even though they've been processed?  Sometimes, I'm
only getting part of the output of a print statement, which seems truly
weird.  If I had multiple threads, perhaps I could be clobbering the thread
that's printing my signposts, but I'm not...

Is there something on Windows (Win2K, to be exact) that I need to do to make
sure that print statements are actually output as soon as the statement is
executed.

Thanks in advance...

Nick

--
narnett at mccmedia.com
(408) 904-7198




From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Thu Mar  7 21:59:45 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:59:45 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <B8AD9351.4A8C%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 3/7/02 9:41 PM, in article
a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181 at posting.google.com, "les ander"
<les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote:
> i am just curious as to why different programming languages have different
> speed. I understand that if a language has an extensive grammar
> (such as c++) the compiler would take longer. But what about execution?
You will not get a good answer to this from a newsgroup. No one can
summarize for you what takes years of education and experience in
programming language and implementation to learn. The only way to become
informed on these questions is to study programming languages seriously.
> why is a perl program faster than similar python program?
Says who? What programs? What's a "similar" program? To discuss these
questions scientifically rather than with sound bites, one needs to define
carefully the questions being asked, the experiments that will answer those
questions, the experimental conditions (implementations, hardware
platforms), and the supporting statistical analysis. Benchmarking is a
difficult experimental craft. Relative speeds depend on problem,
experimental conditions, etc. That's why so much effort and discussion went
into developing processor benchmarks like SPECint and SPECfp. And Even then
there are many disagreements on how to interpret them.
>For example
> when java came out it use to be pretty slow, but now it is pretty fast. How
> was this speed-up acheived and why is it not possible to have such a speed up
> for python?
Again, the answers to these questions, and whether the questions themselves
make any sense, require detailed study of many topics in language
implementation. No one can give you a newsgroup-posting-sized answer. If
they do, you shouldn't trust them.

Benchmarking-is-harder-than-/.-ing-ly yours

-- F



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 18:37:01 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:37:01 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <xU6p8.28161$VJ1.2411615@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Jon Cosby" <jcosby at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a82mlc$ja1$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> Can anyone se why this is coming up empty in the "cols" list? I've
tried
> something similar in the interpreter, and everything here looks
right.

What happens if you paste exactly this text into the interpreter (on
PC, turn off fast pasting)?  (Answer: syntax errors, see below.)

######################################################################
##
> # WordSquare
> # Build word squares from initial word

> # Word dictionary
> dict = "c:\data\dict.txt"

As I said elsewhere, use forward slashes / to be safe, concise, and
more portable.

> firstword = input("Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): ")

firstword = raw_input("Enter first word (do not enclose in quotes): ")
is safer and easier for user.

> lword = len(firstword)
> words = []
> cols = []
> rows = []
>
> f = open(dict, "r")
> for line in f.readlines():
>  if len(line[:-1]) == lword:
>   words.append(line[:-1])
#  add 'word = line[:-1]' before if and sub in nect too two lines
slightly faster

> f.close()
Need blank line to run interactively

If words were sorted by len, you could read in only those of proper
length

> for i in range(lword):
>  cols.append([])
>  rows.append([])

> rows[0].append(firstword)
>
> # Generate an array of words with matching first letters
> for i in range(lword):
>  for word in words:
>    if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found
>    cols[i].append(word)

As written, without indent of 'cols...' after 'if', this has a syntax
error.
This suggests that this is not exactly the file that produced the
output below.

If words of given length were sorted, you could grab just those
needed.

> print len(words)
> print cols
>
>
######################################################################
>
> C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
> Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "hello"
> 4220
> [[], [], [], [], []]

Try print words[0:10] to see what actually iterating through.

# I pasted following into interpreter and got output marked by #

firstword = "cow" # cow, ore, wee/wet make square
lword = len(firstword)
words = ['act', 'art', 'boo', 'cat', 'cad', 'coo', 'cow', 'oft',
'opt',
'ore', 'wee', 'wet']
cols = []
rows = []

# delete readin from file stuff

for i in range(lword):
 cols.append([])
 rows.append([])

rows[0].append(firstword)

# Generate an array of words with matching first letters
for i in range(lword):
 for word in words:
   if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found
     cols[i].append(word)

print len(words)
#12
print cols
#[['cat', 'cad', 'coo', 'cow'], ['oft', 'opt', 'ore'], ['wee', 'wet']]

so this much of program works.

Terry J. Reedy







From newsfroups at jerf.org  Tue Mar  5 12:16:18 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:16:18 GMT
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015314249.8983.python-list@python.org> <625h8.3294$tg2.206482@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3C84FD78.9070507@jerf.org>

Robert Oschler wrote:

> Gerhard,
> 
> Excellent!!!  Never expected to find a language that could do this and it
> something I've wanted very badly for a long time.  Yes that's exactly what I
> meant.  B knows about the A that owns it without having to artificially pass
> a reference of A to B during construction.

If I'm reading that correctly, be sure you understand the limitation of 
that implementation: B is actually getting a reference to the thing 
that's creating it, which may or may NOT necessarily be it's parent. And 
that only if the thing that's creating it calls itself "self" (which is 
only convention, not requirement in Python). Attempting to create an 
instance of B() directly in a function fails with a keyerror, unless you 
have a "self" in that function.

You may consider it somewhat inconvenient, but in accordance with 
Python's "explicit rather then implicit" philosophy, you're probably 
better off passing an explicit reference to the parent. It's clear, it's 
flexible, it's standard, it doesn't have the laundry list of limitations 
and caveats the sample implementation does, and it also allows moving 
the parent pointer around, which is often useful. The only strike 
against it is a little extra typing; very little if there's a parent 
class you can move it into.

Also consider looking at the weakref module; trees with parent pointers 
are one of the defining reasons for the existance of that module.



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Mar 27 10:22:10 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:22:10 -0500
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3gef.4o.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list@python.org> <slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <%slo8.20800$cB5.20607@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org> wrote in message
news:slrnaa3nvr.bj2.akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org...
> In article <mailman.1017235723.15647.python-list at python.org>,
> Chris Gonnerman wrote:
> > Perhaps I'm stupid... what the heck is wrong with the OP's message?
>
> Original material was added at the top of the post, and the entire
> message being responded to was quoted below.  Usenet convention is to
> do it the way I'm writing this message, by quoting only the few lines
> of text I'm responding to and writing my answer below.  Doing this way
> makes it much easier to pick up a thread in the middle, saves
> bandwidth, and users reading the digested version of python-list don't
> have to plow through 187 quoted copies of the same text again and
> again.
>
> I also view top-posting as rude; it implies the top-posting person's
> time is so valuable they can't be bothered to edit down the quoted
> text, but it's OK to waste *my* time by making me dig through levels
> upon levels of quoted material.
>
While you correctly interpret netiquette, might it not have been more
considerate to this list if you had *mailed* the OP rather than giving
her/him a public dressing down which many others also had to read
unnecessarily? Or is it OK to waste *my* time by chastising the OP publicly?

[I am aware the same applies to this post :-)]

netiquette-means-politeness-ly y'rs  - steve






From sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com  Sat Mar 23 06:51:47 2002
From: sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:51:47 -0000
Subject: how do i get RGB from HEX?
References: <a7flgu$cpg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <WCeE3TAUC2m8Ewar@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a7hq6c$7v5$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Thanks m8, thats great  :)

G. Willoughby

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WCeE3TAUC2m8Ewar at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
> In article <a7flgu$cpg$1 at newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, G. Willoughby
> <sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com> writes
> >Hi,
> >    i have been trying to do this for to long now, i know there is an
easy
> >way, please somebody put me out of my misery! i need to get the RGB value
of
> >a HEX number (eg, #DCDCDC). can anyone help?
> >
> >thanks,
> >
> >G. Willoughby
> >
> >
> split into pairs after stripping the #
>
> >>> def rgb(h):
> ...     n = eval('0x'+h[1:])
> ...     return (n>>16)&0xff, (n>>8)&0xff, n&0xff
> ...
> >>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
> (220, 220, 220)
> >>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
> (220, 220, 10)
> >>>
>
> I'm sure there's probably some better way, but the above works.
> --
> Robin Becker




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Wed Mar  6 13:32:20 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:32:20 -0800
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca>
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20020306183220.GA20722@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Ramkumar Kashyap (rkashyap at sympatico.ca):
> This is extremely non-intuitive to most people.  Most 5,6,7 year olds 
> can speak fluently in their native languages, but how many of them could 
> tell you about vowels, consonants, nouns, verbs, adjectives.  In fact 
> quite a few of them speak multiple languages, can easily differentiate 
> sentence structures in those languages, but would be hard-pressed to 
> give defintions of the above.
> 
> So how come in programming, we ALWAYS jump into the constructs of a 
> language, rather than just doing, gaining proficiency and then 
> understanding how it is put together?

I think the analogy here is interesting and useful, and bears
consideration. I think that what you're asking for -- a reexamination
of the pedagogy surrounding computer programming -- is useful.

I would hesitate to suggest that your methodology is exactly
appropriate, though. Here's why:

- Go speak to a five or six year old child for a few hours. Engage
  them in any conversation you like, but make them talk, make them use
  the language for an expressive purpose. Their facility with the
  language is reasonable at this age, but far from mastery. Only the
  mentally disabled standardize at this level; even the stupid
  standardize at grade 5 or older.

- Observe a two or three year old. Engage this child in conversation.
  It won't last long, but try it.

For the space of around three years, a child is immersed almost
constantly, from waking to sleep, and even sometimes while asleep, in
language. For those first three years, the child is almost completely
incapable of making him or herself understood.

Some of this is the challenge of spoken language, the challenge of
making your voice modulate to form the right sounds. Much research
exists to show how young children can learn to sign long before they
can learn to speak; if you eliminate the difficulty of speaking, you
might get it down to age 2 or so. That's still 2 years in which the
child can barely be understood if at all, and another three before the
most basic constructs are reliably produced.

People don't get smarter as they get older, they just have a better
foundation for building on. It would be just as difficult for someone
to learn programming through reading or transcribing lots of text as
it would be for someone to learn French by riding the Metro all day
long.

People don't get "smarter" as they get older, though they do develop
strategies for learning that enable them to learn things more quickly.
Most of those strategies revolve around identifying patterns early,
and spending most of the learning time exploring the "borderline
behavior" that describes the limits of the pattern.

That's why we go into constructs early, because those are the
patterns. The next step for the educated learner is to explore the
limits of these patterns -- what they can and can't do. This is where
a great deal of practice can be immensely useful.

A heavily practice-based pedagogy could be a very good thing,
especially if the practical applications were designed to explore
recently-introduced concepts to show when the pattern applies, and
when it does not.

My belief is that most people find computer programming to be
difficult because logic is not the natural way people think; it is a
forced mode. People tend to think intuitively, using "gut feelings"
and good guesswork. That's the way we tend to summarize the knowledge
of our experiences: as gut feelings.

Expressing things in a purely logical fashion is consequently
difficult for people, and very few ever receive formal training in
logic. What's worse is that trying to teach logic at the fundamental
level doesn't immediately apply. Logic itself is a tool that a person
must learn to use, and could easily fill several courses by itself.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Punctuality is the virtue of the bored." 
<geoff at gerrietts net>                               --Evelyn Waugh



From koji at twinsun.com  Wed Mar 20 05:04:16 2002
From: koji at twinsun.com (Koji Nobumoto)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 02:04:16 -0800
Subject: how to ask different DNS for gethostbyname?
Message-ID: <8de6d3da.0203200204.31b083d9@posting.google.com>

Dear All,

Is there any way to use a DNS which is not looked up
when I just use the socket.gethostbyname(),  without
changing /etc/resolv.conf or any system configuration?

Thanks in advice

Koji


From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar  9 15:51:02 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:51:02 GMT
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <WAui8.3186$bK5.428@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

I ain't no lisp expert (so please don't yell at me Paul F. ; ) ), but the
interpreter is a read-eval-apply loop.

1. A statement is READ in
2. The arguments are EVALuated (unless short circuited by a quote)
3. The evaluated arguements are APPLYed to the function, result is returned

Once think about it in those terms, it's pretty easy to reproduce in Python:

>>> import types
>>> def printf(x, *y):
            print x % y


>>> def readEvalApply(list):
            for fun in functions:
                function = fun[0]
                arguments = fun[1]
                if type(arguments) == types.StringType:
                    arguments = eval(arguments)
            apply(function, arguments)


>>> foo = "bar"
>>> funs = [
            (printf, ("%s", foo) ), # not quoted, foo eval'ed now
            (printf, "('%s', foo)" ) #quoted, foo eval'd later
            ]
>>> readEvalApply(funs)
bar
bar
>>> foo = "xxx"
>>> readEvalApply(funs)
bar
xxx
--
-

"N Becker" <nbecker at fred.net> wrote in message
news:1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14 at posting.google.com...
> Back in 1999, I asked "where is quote?".  I was looking for
> a way to quote a function (delay evaluation).
>
> I wonder if there is anything new.  It looks to me that the
> best answer is to use lambda.
>
> example:
>
> def f():
>   return lambda: os.chmod(""/root/.rhosts", 0644)
>
> def g():
>   f()




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 06:00:13 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:00:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org> <Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <R29h8.5988$aP6.6654@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <Xns91CB6EB2C30B2duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Reginald B. Charney" <news at charneyday.com> wrote in
news:R29h8.5988$aP6.6654 at rwcrnsc54: 

> Brett is exactly right. I am using an approach that is valid and
> elegant in C++. Since I am fairly new to Python, I had assumed it
> handled contructors/destructors in an ordered (i.e. deterministic)
> fashion. It seems not.

May I just point out that, although the order of destruction of stack based 
variables is well defined in C++, the way you are using the destructors is 
most certainly not elegant. Destructors are called either when the block 
exits normally, or when an exception is raised. If a C++ destructor ever 
throws an exception when in the exception unwinding state then the world 
comes to an end (i.e. your program is immediately terminated). For this 
reason, something apparently as innocuous as printing a string should never 
be done from inside a C++ destructor without a lot of safety nets.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From jdm352 at mail.usask.ca  Mon Mar 11 23:25:15 2002
From: jdm352 at mail.usask.ca (Jim Meier)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:25:15 GMT
Subject: MacPython 2.2 errors after default installation .. ?
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.11.22.23.00.817888.2541@mail.usask.ca>

Hi, I just installed MacPython22 from the full archive installer (this
powerbook is not on the net), but I can't get any .py files to execute
and double clicking the PythonInterpreterClassic icon tells me:

"The document 'PythonInterpreterClasic" could not be opened, because the
application "Unknown Python Document" could not be found.

Could not find a translation extension with appropriate translators."


ConfigurePythonClassic gives a similarly meaningless (to me) error:

"The applicaton "ConfigurePythonClassic" could not be opened because
"NavigationLib" could not be found"

Did I do something wrong during the install?

Os 8.1, Powerbook 5300ce 32 MB

Thanks,
-Jim


From emailing at calltoaction.com.ar  Mon Mar 25 12:03:28 2002
From: emailing at calltoaction.com.ar (SCI E-mailing)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:03:28 -0300
Subject: Conozca SCI E-mailing
Message-ID: <411077-22002312517328642@calltoaction.com.ar>



























































































































































































































































































































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From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sun Mar 17 06:43:02 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:43:02 +0300
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
In-Reply-To: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org>; from usenet@thinkspot.net on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 12:35:43AM -0800
References: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <20020317144302.A27683@phd.pp.ru>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 12:35:43AM -0800, Sheila King wrote:
> However, I can't figure out where this latest code is or how to download
> it.

CVSROOT=":pserver:anonymous at cvs.mimelib.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mimelib"
export CVSROOT

cvs login
cvs checkout mimelib

   New code is in mimelib/email directory. If you still will have troubles,
I can tar and send my copy to you.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Mar 28 21:00:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 02:00:03 GMT
Subject: mutliple search and replace
References: <Kwpo8.18614$EE4.60649@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <a7tuks$o582t$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <a7u7je$s7f$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a80hr3$mb5$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Mar 2002 04:53:02 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:13:48 -0800, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>
>>Trung Hoang
>>> Suppose i have a map (or two lists). is it possible to make a sweep
>>through
>>> a string to find all occurances of key's in the map then replace them
>>all in
>>> one sweep?
>>>
>>
>>>>> d = {'one':'een','two':'twee','three':'drie','four':'vier'}
>>>>> s = "one two buckle my shoe three four je t'adore"
>>>>> ' '.join([d.get(w,w) for w in s.split()])
>>"een twee buckle my shoe drie vier je t'adore"
>>
>>
>Nice. Here's a variant that doesn't use delimiters or
>modify white space (key order could make a difference,
>depending on key overlap):
>
> >>> import re
> >>> d = {'one':'een','two':'twee','three':'drie','four':'vier'}
> >>> resp = re.compile('('+'|'.join(d.keys())+')')
> >>> s = "one two buckle my shoe three four je t'adore"
> >>> ''.join([d.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
> "een twee buckle my shoe drie vier je t'adore"
> >>> s = "one.two+buckle_my_shoe,three-four&je_t'adore"
> >>> ''.join([d.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
> "een.twee+buckle_my_shoe,drie-vier&je_t'adore"
>

Here is something to deal with the key order problem (i.e., if one
key is a substring of another. You have to sort by length to get
maximal or minimal matching. This is for maximal:

 >>> def dirinterp(s,d):
 ...     import re
 ...     klist = [(-len(k),k) for k in d.keys()]
 ...     klist.sort()
 ...     resp = re.compile('('+'|'.join([k for l,k in klist])+')')
 ...     return ''.join([kv.get(w,w) for w in resp.split(s)])
 ...
 >>> subdir = {"sub":"<was sub>","substring":"<was substring>"}
 >>> dirinterp("Will sub or substring be replaced?",subdir)
 'Will <was sub> or <was substring> be replaced?'
 >>> dirinterp("Will substring or sub be replaced?",subdir)
 'Will <was substring> or <was sub> be replaced?'

This is hardly tested at all, but I guess it could be handy.
No reason you couldn't have keys in the form '$xxx' or '$XXX$',
etc., either ;-) What else needs to be fixed? (Yes, think of a better name ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 11 00:32:19 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 06:32:19 +0100
Subject: Iterating over unicode strings
References: <3C8C3136.9050507@sharma-home.net>
Message-ID: <m38z8z655o.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Arun Sharma <arun-public at sharma-home.net> writes:

> line = u"??????|| ?????????????????? ?????????????"
> for c in line:
>      print c
> 
> fails miserably. What is the right way to do it ? I would also like to
> be able to slice the string i.e. line[i] to get the i'th character.

I'm not sure what you expect to happen, but I believe your program
works "correctly": it prints one character at a time.

Now, the question is: what did you want to happen? Apparently, you
want to use UTF-8 in your string literal. This is currently not
directly supported - Unicode literals are Latin-1 encoded. Instead, use

line = unicode("your text", "utf-8")

HTH,
Martin



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Mar 11 11:44:38 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:44:38 GMT
Subject: Pyhon and PIL
References: <ydbh8.4830$TU3.128876@news4.ulv.nextra.no> <mailman.1015369331.23197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <W95j8.24351$n4.4752402@newsc.telia.net>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> Maybe this would work?
>
>     import Image
>     Image.open('yellow.bmp').convert('L').point(255*[0] + [255]) \
>         .convert('1').save('yellow.bmp')

footnote: in this specific case, you can point & convert in
one operation.  or in other words,

    point(255*[0] + [255]).convert('1')

can be written as:

    point(255*[0] + [255], '1')

</F>




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 13:52:36 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:52:36 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
In-Reply-To: <20020313092857.4765dd0d.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk> <20020313092857.4765dd0d.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020313185236.GB1227@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 09:28, Cliff Wells ?crivit:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:35:48 +0000
> Max M wrote:
> 
> > This could also just be a sign that there is interrest, but the people 
> > using win32all might not be able to publish a build themself?
> > 
> > Not everybody is as knowledgable as Mark, Even though we work on the 
> > superior Windows platform ;-)
> 
> And quite possibly because not many people using the superior Windows
> platform <cough> have a C compiler available to them.  Probably due to
> thoughtfulness on Microsoft's part ;)

There are plenty of free C compilers for Windows: mingw, Borland,
lcc-win32. lcc-win32 even comes with an IDE.

If you dig long enough on the Microsoft site, you can (at least you
could at one time) even download a commandline version of the MS
compiler. AFAIK the commandline tools of the .NET SDK are also available
at no charge.

Apart from that, many people might fear that hacking the internals of a
COM implementation might make their head explode.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 14.5 ?C      Wind: 1.2 m/s



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 06:29:04 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:29:04 +0000
Subject: dictonary
References: <3C8F27DC.F69B1F54@stud.cs.uit.no> <mailman.1016016636.25825.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8F3800.3070002@mxm.dk>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:


>>db = _mysql.connect()
>>string = {
>>	hello:'wow', 
>>	something:'nothing',
>>	nothing : 'something',
>>	number : 5,
>>	name : 'daniel'}
>>
> This is one way to do it, I bet there's a better one:
> 
> dict = {'name': 'Andy', 'age': 39}
> 
> columns = ",".join(dict.keys())
> # I hope using only %s works for MySQLdb. It does work like this for pyPgSQL.
> placeholders = ",".join(['%(' + k + ')s' for k in dict.keys()])
> sql = "insert into table(" + columns + ") values (" + placeholders + ")"

A bit more readable perhaps?

keys = dict.keys()
vals = dict.vals()
sql = "insert into table(%s) values (%s)" % (
     ','.join(keys),
     ','.join(list(len(keys)*'?'))
)
cursor.execute(sql, vals)



regards Max M




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 05:16:56 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:16:56 +0000
Subject: distutils install control
Message-ID: <C8YhYKAYQIj8EwTt@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

I would like to distribute various modules using distutils, but seem to
lack documentation/support for fine control over which
modules/submodules get included and so on. 

For example:

include package x.y but have module x.y.z included as a pyc file (for
security)

include package a.b but exclude particular modules eg a.b.c


generate a manifest of an install. This seems to be something to do with
source distributions, but I would like manifests for the installed
stuff.
-- 
Robin Becker


From jwilhelm at outsourcefinancial.com  Fri Mar  1 13:12:42 2002
From: jwilhelm at outsourcefinancial.com (Joseph Wilhelm)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 11:12:42 -0700
Subject: Problems with multipart messages w/email class
Message-ID: <1015006362.1673.7.camel@jwilhelm.ofsloans.com>

I'm trying to send an email via the email class in Python 2.2 with an
attached PDF. Easy feat, I assume. However, email.Generator is having
problems in _handle_multipart() (Caused by some strange __getitem__
error in Message)

>>> outer.get_payload()
<email.MIMEBase.MIMEBase instance at 0x8151904>
>>> 

That works fine. However...

>>> for part in outer.get_payload():
...     print "Blah"
... 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 151, in
__getitem__
    return self.get(name)
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 214, in get
    name = name.lower()
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'
>>>

I originally found this error because of this traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 59, in
as_string
    g(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 83, in
__call__
    self._write(msg)
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 104, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 134, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 240, in
_handle_multipart
    for part in msg.get_payload():
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 151, in
__getitem__
    return self.get(name)
  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 214, in get
    name = name.lower()
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'

I got this from calling message.as_string()

I can provide my code used to generate the email if necessarry, however
I don't believe it should be. I derived my code directly from an example
in the email documentation.  Any help would be appreciated.

--Joseph Wilhelm





From cliechti at gmx.net  Mon Mar 25 15:25:05 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 21:25:05 +0100
Subject: reading in ints from binary files
References: <a7ns1d$mi1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <Xns91DCDA06AB90Acliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Bill" <metaliu at yahoo.com> wrote in news:a7ns1d$mi1$1
@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov:
> Quick Newb question:
> 
> How do I read in integers from binary files?  readlines() reads 
returns
> the data in as a string.  I can manipulate the string to get the
> desired result. However, is there an easier way of doing this?  I
> currently do something like:
> 
> f=open('file', 'rb')
> s = f.readline()
> l = list(s[0:-1])
> l.reverse()
> a = array.array('h', ''.join(l))
> 
> There's gotta be an easier way.

i usualy use the struct module.

a = struct.unpack("<HHHHH", f.read(10))

don't use "readline" on binary files as it will only read to a 0x1a 
wich can occour randomly in binary data. with "read(size)" with size 
appropriate for your fileformat (e.g. one record at a time)

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 05:42:34 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:42:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Generating getter methods with exec
References: <3C964E1A.84D5A26B@ndh.net> <3C96569F.8E76FA6E@metaslash.com> <3C966323.A522D680@ndh.net> <3C967A13.C6074484@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91D662196C970duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Neal Norwitz <neal at metaslash.com> wrote in
news:3C967A13.C6074484 at metaslash.com: 

>> So to rephrase the problem a bit: I would like to generate simple
>> getters and setters with rather little decision overhead during the
>> actual accesses. 
> 
>:-) Well in that case:
> 
> class GetterTest1:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
>                       'key2': 'two',
>                       'key3': 'three'}
> 
>     def _make_getters(self, dict_name, key_list):
>         for key in key_list:
>             code = "def %(key)s(): return %(dict_name)s['%(key)s']\n"
>             % vars() exec code in self.__dict__, self.__dict__
> 
> 

You still don't need to even consider using exec for this:
>>> class GetterTest2:
	def __init__(self):
	       self._dict = {'key1': 'one',
                      'key2': 'two',
                      'key3': 'three'}
	def _make_getter(self, dict, key):
		def getter():
			return dict[key]
		self.__dict__[key] = getter
	def _make_getters(self, dict, keys):
		for key in keys: self._make_getter(dict, key)

		
>>> g = GetterTest2()
>>> g._make_getters(g._dict, ['key1', 'key2'])
>>> g.key1
<function getter at 0x00958590>
>>> g.key1()
'one'
>>> g.key2()
'two'
>>> 

This is for 2.2, with 2.1 you need to enable nested scopes.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl  Fri Mar 29 05:20:33 2002
From: I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl (Fused)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:20:33 GMT
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
Message-ID: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl>

I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone. 
Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).


From dswegen at software.plasmon.com  Tue Mar 19 04:32:36 2002
From: dswegen at software.plasmon.com (Dave Swegen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:32:36 +0000
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
Message-ID: <20020319093236.GB19059@software.plasmon>

Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define? I'd
like to have what essentially is a header files with easily modifiable
values (these will then be used to give default attribute values to
various classes). Or are globals the only way to go?

Cheers
	Dave



From md_lazreg at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 16:18:55 2002
From: md_lazreg at yahoo.com (mohamed lazreg)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:18:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Packaging tool
Message-ID: <20020322211855.68996.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Pythoneers,

I have been encouraged by the responses I got about my
bug tracking system question... So now I am looking
for a free packaging tool writeen in python (it has to
be in python)... By a packaging tool I mean a tool
that goes into a development area of a software, takes
the correct files and binaries depending on some user
parameters (configuration files) then creates a
package ready to distribute... 

Thank you again for all your help...

Mohamed

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From abou at cam.org  Sat Mar 30 14:27:03 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:27:03 -0500
Subject: getting infos from a website
Message-ID: <3CA61187.C0548FD5@cam.org>

Geoff Gerrietts wrote:
> 
> Check out urllib for retrieving the page:
>     http://www.python.org/doc/2.2p1/lib/module-urllib.html
> 
> Check out string and re for parsing the page to grab the stuff you
> want:
>     http://www.python.org/doc/2.2p1/lib/module-string.html
>     http://www.python.org/doc/2.2p1/lib/module-re.html
> 
> If that's not enough to get you productive, let me know where you're
> having specific stopping points.
> 
> --G.

Ok, I can now get the html source of the page I want. It stores it in a
file:

#! c:/python/python.exe

import urllib
import re

c = open('c:/python/tester', 'w')

f =
urllib.urlopen("http://www.coremud.org/cgi-bin/mycore.pl?stocks=1&font=Arial")

k =
urllib.urlretrieve("http://www.coremud.org/cgi-bin/mycore.pl?stocks=1&font=Arial",
'tester')

c.close()

# But then I'm trying to read the file and it never outputs what I ask:


raw_input('press Return->')

c = open('c:/python/tester', 'r')
c.read()

# readline(), read(), etc. don't seem to work because it doesn't output
the 'tester' file. In this example I close then reopen the file, but
even if I do not close it first, it doesn't output. Could it have
something to do with file permission? (even if I'm on windoze - the
'tester' file in an 'archive' file).
Anyone knows what I am doing wrong?


-- 
Zutroi Zatatakowski
Commando PACU
http://pacu.cjb.net



From magnus at thinkware.se  Wed Mar 20 07:21:46 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:21:46 +0100
Subject: Can't print national characters in IDLE with Python 2.2.1c1
References: <3C97E9DF.3070300@thinkware.se> <m3y9gn92am.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C987EDA.2010309@thinkware.se>

Thank's for clearing this up Martin (and Oleg who mailed).
And thanks for all the work you do to actually make these
things work. I've followed the discussions, and realize the
problems, but I didn't expect the Span^W silent conversion via
unicode that Tcl/Tk performs.

Maybe German or Japanese Python books are better at explaining
localization and problems with not using US ASCII, but all the
Python books in English I read just ignores this subject. Just
as they ignore site.py etc.

Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> It's a known limitation, also it is not clear what the solution should
> be.


Well, actually it was very simple. Just enable the locale in
site.py. (Thank's Oleg.)

if 1: # <--- Changed 'if 0:' to 'if 1:'. I just had to change one bit!
     # Enable to support locale aware default string encodings.
     import locale
     loc = locale.getdefaultlocale()
     if loc[1]:
         encoding = loc[1]

 

I assume that in the longer perspective, unicode is the only way to
go for proper i18n, at least if your programs will run on platforms
that you don't have control over... (Assuming all users will have
full character sets!)


> If you type "funny characters" in IDLE, Tk will represent them as
> Unicode strings (in fact, it represents *all* strings as Unicode
> strings). 


Aha! But is this new? I thought python 2.1 used the same Tcl/Tk version 
(8.3). What puzzled me was that this always worked before. (As long as
used IDLE at least--six years?) I knew that I'd get this behaviour if
I'd type u"???". But I just made a plain string. Or so I thought...

> Notice that, strictly speaking, your program is incorrect: 

...

> # ... 8-bit characters may be used in string literals and
> # comments but their interpretation is platform dependent;


Raising an exception is not what I expect when I read "interpretation
is platform dependent". I only assume it would mean that I can't assume
that ord(x) would have a particular value for x = '?'

> # ... the proper
> # way to insert 8-bit characters in string literals is by using octal
> # or hexadecimal escape sequences.

That doesn't help one tiny bit. I still don't know what print "\0xd5"

will look like if I don't know the locale settings. Besides, the error
in IDLE is the same due to this silent unicode-string translation.
So making "correct" programs in IDLE causes just the same problem.


> There is no easy solution to this. Just consider the fragment
> 
>  >>> s = '???'
>  >>> print ord(s[0])
> 
> What do you want to be printed here (what number)? Assuming you have
> some answer (say, 229), then what would you expect if s contained some
> Cyrillic or Japanese characters?


One solution is to use the locale. I assumed that using setlocale
would do the trick, but obviously that must be set up in site.py and
cemented with os.setdefaultencoding. Indicating encoding in the file
as is being discussed seems reasonable to me.

 
> Under PEP 263, some of the current restrictions will be removed, so
> that you can put those characters into Unicode literals. Putting them
> into string literals still won't be supported.


But... It's always been supported!!! Until now. I hope you don't

imply that it will stop working, even if you set default encoding?

So, when will Python be all Unicode, and the 7-bit legacy put on

the same scrap pile as all 7-bit hardware? (It's really silly to
claim that software changes faster than hardware. :)

My son is both Lithuanian and Swedish. There is no 8-bit character
set for him! He needs transparent Unicode support!!! :) But he's only
three, so there is still some time before he starts programming. (At
least a year.... ;-)

P.S. It's not only IDLE that has shortcomings with non ASCII characters.
PythonWin behaves very strange as well. In some columns (!) it won't
display certain characters correct (the program will work, but what
you see on the screen will change if you change the indentation), and
when you press backspace after typing a non-ascii character, you will
probably get a yen symbol etc where you had your "bad" letter (I even
got a corrupted source code file due to this, and the bad byte wasn't
visible in PythonWin at all!). I guess vim and emacs are the only
reliable code editors... :-(



From pachy at 012.net.il  Sat Mar  2 05:44:10 2002
From: pachy at 012.net.il (Tal Linzen)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:44:10 +0200
Subject: Fw: smtplib: including a subject
Message-ID: <002901c1c1d7$306af590$e00dc7d4@ussr6gwe8yu2pu>

Hi.

I couldn't figure out how to send a mail with a 
subject. Help?

(By the way, I think the docs on this module could 
use some rewriting -- it appears to be directed to
those familiar with the c library it wraps, rather than
to the common Python user).

Thanks,
Tal




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Mar 13 08:33:52 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:33:52 GMT
Subject: Python / Active Scripting - Value Assignment - HELP
References: <f5dc3834.0203130133.732023a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F5564.7020502@skippinet.com.au>

adeptus wrote:
> OK... 
> 
> Within a script block of a HTML file, I can do the following:
> 
> something = ax.document.bgColor
> ax.document.write("Background color is %s:" %something)

What does:
ax.document.write("Background color is %r:" %something)

show?  (%r == repr(ob))

> 
> However, unlike all the Javascript and VB examples I see, I can't do
> the
> following:
> 
> ax.document.bgColor = "#000000"
> 
> I always get an error about unicode strings being read only.

Post the exact error.

You could try ax.document.bgColor.Value = "#0000" - expecially if the 
object repr() says "<com object>" instead of still being a string.

Mark.



From mcherm at destiny.com  Sun Mar 10 00:31:43 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:31:43 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?)
Message-ID: <3C8AEFBF.7090102@destiny.com>

> 1.  Michael! Your Computer thinks its April!  You are making
>     python archives one month ahead of yourself!
>     (see: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-April/091714.html)

Yipes! Thanks. Someone's idea of an april fools joke on me maybe? 
Anyway, thanks for point it out.


> 2. Haskell, which I mispelt, shame on me, I know better, is a
>    functional language. 

I certainly know of the language and didn't even notice the misspelling.


>    It has functional syntax - don't go there looking
>    for a 'for loop'.  However, it also has list comprehensions, (which is
>    where we got them from, I think).  So, what I meant was 'I wish that 
>    Guido had used Haskell's syntax for arithmetic sequences in Python's 
>    for loops'.  That is as follows:

I figured you meant something like that.

>    [1..10]     => [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
>    [1,3..8]    => [1,3,5,7]
>    [1,3..]     => [1,3,5,7,9, ... (infinite sequence)

Aha! Abundantly clear.

> 3.  Make the time to learn Haskell.  It is simply too much fun.

It's next on my list.

Thanks!

-- Michael Chermside










From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 14:36:26 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:36:26 +0000
Subject: Autodiscovery of proxy settings from a python script
References: <R%5i8.1615$K%4.11598019@news-text.cableinet.net>
 <7EHvmJAipQi8Ew$x@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <YFx3GIA6KRi8EwK8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

in fact inside urllib there seems to be some support built in for the
registry attack under nt. 

ie urllib.getproxies() is supposed to return a dictionary mapping
services to proxies urls. Doesn't on my machine though.
-- 
Robin Becker


From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 16:13:05 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:13:05 GMT
Subject: Setting UNIX environment with a Python script
References: <3C8D143A.17963385@all.com>
Message-ID: <B59j8.19604$N7.4435538@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3C8D143A.17963385 at all.com>, Nom de Plume wrote:

> The only step left is sourcing the ora_env.[name] file from within
> Python in a way such that the environment of the parent shell is
> modified.  Anyone have any ideas?  I have tried:

It is not possible under Unix to modify the environment of your
parent process.  You can only modify your own environment and
then export that environment to your children.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm DESPONDENT... I
                                  at               hope there's something
                               visi.com            DEEP-FRIED under this
                                                   miniature DOMED STADIUM...


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 20 01:33:05 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 07:33:05 +0100
Subject: Can't print national characters in IDLE with Python 2.2.1c1
References: <3C97E9DF.3070300@thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <m3y9gn92am.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Magnus Lyck? <magnus at thinkware.se> writes:

> Can someone explain this?

It's a known limitation, also it is not clear what the solution should
be.

If you type "funny characters" in IDLE, Tk will represent them as
Unicode strings (in fact, it represents *all* strings as Unicode
strings). When Tkinter returns strings to Python, it returns plain
(byte) strings if the string can be converted using the default
encoding (ASCII in most installations), and Unicode objects otherwise.
When Python then tries to interpret a Unicode string as source code,
it gives up - that text is no valid source code.

Notice that, strictly speaking, your program is incorrect: According
to

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/lexical.html

# Python uses the 7-bit ASCII character set for program text and
# string literals. 8-bit characters may be used in string literals and
# comments but their interpretation is platform dependent; the proper
# way to insert 8-bit characters in string literals is by using octal
# or hexadecimal escape sequences.

There is no easy solution to this. Just consider the fragment

 >>> s = '???'
 >>> print ord(s[0])

What do you want to be printed here (what number)? Assuming you have
some answer (say, 229), then what would you expect if s contained some
Cyrillic or Japanese characters?

Under PEP 263, some of the current restrictions will be removed, so
that you can put those characters into Unicode literals. Putting them
into string literals still won't be supported.

As a work-around, you can change the system default encoding.

Regards,
Martin




From threehounds at worldnet.att.net  Thu Mar 14 09:59:28 2002
From: threehounds at worldnet.att.net (Matthew Austin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:59:28 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <a6on8n$frj93$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <QTUj8.10299$Ex5.957528@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <PEWj8.10349$k5.3869114@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <kV2k8.10814$Ex5.1020580@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

I'm new to Python from an R/S background, but it sound like overkill to
learn a new language to compute simple descriptive statistics.

But if there is interest, check out the RSPython module at www.omegahat.org
which allows you to run Python from within R on Windows and UNIX/Linux (and
vice-versa on UNIX/Linux systems).


"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:PEWj8.10349$k5.3869114 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> it looks like there is a D/COM interface to R, though. Not really a python
> solution, but it might work anyway.
>
>
> "Matthew Austin" <threehounds at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:QTUj8.10299$Ex5.957528 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > RPy has not been ported to Windows yet.
> >
> >
> > "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
> > news:a6on8n$frj93$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> > > "dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
> > > news:OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > hi all,
> > > >
> > > > never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking
advice
> > > on how
> > > > to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need
> > > to find
> > > > standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am
> > > seeking
> > > > advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i
> > > am
> > > > wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the
task.
> > >
> > > You might want to take a look at rpy at
> > > http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy/
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Emile van Sebille
> > > emile at fenx.com
> > >
> > > ---------
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




From danielk at aracnet.com  Fri Mar  1 09:02:04 2002
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:02:04 -0800
Subject: Socket connection manager
Message-ID: <t91v7u06vef4o557hq0uroslepcsrd8kfq@4ax.com>

Just wondering if there is a commercial product out there (written in Python
of course) that maintains a pool of connections and keeps track of 'state'
for web users.

Thanks,
Daniel Klein


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 26 13:59:46 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:59:46 -0800
Subject: Difference between eval and exec ??
References: <uEWn8.8$Vme.170401280@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <3CA0C522.90B74851@ccvcorp.com>


Thomas Weholt wrote:

> Eval and exec seem to have the same effect. What's the real difference?
>
> In this case : docs != enlightenment.

Raymond Hettinger already answered the question you asked, but I'll stick
my nose in and add another comment.

Yeah, they do both seem to have the same effect -- they both mislead people
into thinking that they're a good shortcut, when in reality, 99.99% of the
time that you might reach for exec/eval(), there's a cleaner, safer,
*better* way of doing things.  Both should come with clear warnings, "For
Emergency Use Only!!"

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Mar 28 15:19:27 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 15:19:27 -0500
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ur8m478ds.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:

> IIRC in Awk you can just say:   freq[word] ++ and it works 
> correctly even when there is no pre-existing index of word in freq.
> 
> IMO it's a pity Python isn't like that.

I'm not so sure.  Doing it that way presumes that in fact you aren't
making an error while trying to access an index (word) that doesn't
exist.

Python requires marginally more effort to cover this case (e.g., you
have to explicitly use a method like .get to include a default value
if you know the key might not yet be present), but that also means
that the code explicitly highlights that the scenario is anticipated
and being handled.

Sure, in a simple example like an increment operation it seems a bit
much, but as a general case, I think it's the smarter and more
maintainable default behavior.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From karthik at james.hut.fi  Fri Mar  1 03:13:31 2002
From: karthik at james.hut.fi (Karthikesh Raju)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 10:13:31 +0200
Subject: Numeric Python Installation woes
References: <m3elj6ocvs.fsf@mycomp.tky.hut.fi> <cf0ad9fb.0202280307.2951ec2c@posting.google.com> <2dg03lvk1q.fsf@james.hut.fi> <cf0ad9fb.0202282323.3340ca5@posting.google.com> <a5nb21$jco$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <2dbse8vh78.fsf@james.hut.fi>

Hi,

Thankx. This is exactly what happens with my RH7.1 system. When i try
to upgrade 1.5 to 2.2, the system complained and so i left it alone. 

Now Python 2 which also exists. Dont know how to set this right, and
probably because of this numpy does not work even.

wishes
karthik
-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karthikesh Raju,		    email: karthik at james.hut.fi		
Researcher,			    http://www.cis.hut.fi/karthik
Helsinki University of Technology,  Tel: +358-9-451 5389
Laboratory of Comp. & Info. Sc.,    Fax: +358-9-451 3277
Department of Computer Sc.,
P.O Box 5400, FIN 02015 HUT,
Espoo, FINLAND
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar  8 15:58:27 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:58:27 -0500
Subject: PARTIAL SOLUTION: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20 does
 not work
In-Reply-To: <x6pu2e4wtp.fsf@hyperion.mii.dynalabs.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEMBOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Michael Piotrowski]
> I've had a look at test_fpformat: The test expects that
>
>    "%.*f" % (0, -0.003)
>
> produces -0 (negative zero),

No, and this is important:  this has nothing to do with negative zeroes.
What the test expects is a two-character *string*, '-' followed by '0'.

> but on HP-UX 10.20, this yields 0.  It seems that, according to IEEE,
> -0 would be correct, and this is indeed what you get on HP-UX 11.

IEEE-754 is irrelevant to this test.  It's the C standard that defines the
result here, and IEEE rules have nothing to do with it.  -0.003 is a
non-zero negative number.  IEEE esoterica would get involved only if the
test had been

    "%.*f" % (0, -0.0)

instead.  But the Python test suite stays away from stuff like that,
precisely because the C standard doesn't say anything about signed zeroes.

> This is basically a, ahem, property of the 10.20 libc; I don't think
> there's anything reasonable one could do about it.  Also, apart from
> the test, I'd think that this has any impact on Python.  If you need
> the "correct" behavior, the best idea might be to upgrade to 11.
>
> You might also want to have a look at
>
> <http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x3f0ecb60e503d611
> 8ff40090279cd0f9,00.html>
>
> According to this posting, Solaris 7 and AIX 4.3 seem to behave in the
> same way as HP-UX 10.20, so test_fpformat should fail on these
> platforms, too.

That link is again about IEEE signed zeroes, and test_fpformat doesn't use
signed zeroes.




From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Fri Mar  8 03:54:42 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 00:54:42 -0800
Subject: SWIG: operator const char*() const
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203080054.4297c39@posting.google.com>

I have a class, say myString, with an operator const char*() const
for which I want to create Python
shadow classes (swig -c++ -swig -python)

class myString
{
public:
  const char* operator() const;
  ...
};

Using this code, I get the warning:

"Can't wrap operator const char* unless renamed to a valid identifier."

So I tried to rename:

%rename(c_str) myString::operator const char*() const;

gives the error message

"Syntax error in input"

What is the correct syntax to rename?

Helmut


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Mar  5 20:09:41 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:09:41 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF09D7E4D5.B9E45B50-ON88256B74.0002F4DB@i2.com>

[Jim]
> Interesting observation.  But actually, we very much chose those forms to
> "underline" not to "hide" the fact that numbers are first-class objects
in
> Smalltalk (as they are also in Python).

[Samuele Pedroni]
> Yup that's the current Smalltalk cult <wink>.

Well, it was the *original* one, too.

> But it is not the impression I had reading the Alan Key's
> paper about the history of Smalltalk.

You might want to go back and read it again.  Alan (it's Alan Kay) is the
one that converted me and everyone else in his group to *his* original
"everything is an object" view.  From the "Blue Book", Smalltalk-80 The
Language and its Implementation", Goldberg and Robson, 1983 ISBN
0-201-11371-6 ABCDEFGHIJ-HA-89876543: "The Smalltalk-80 system is based on
ideas gleaned from the Simula language and from the visions of Alan Kay,
who first encouraged us to try to create a uniformly object-oriented
system".  The vision wasn't based on some notion of doing "all objects"
just to be different.  It came from a deep intuition that this would be a
more natural and robust way to model things when programming.  (Alan has
interesting thoughts about viewing large programming systems like
biological systems).  And as a way to make computer programming easier.
For everyone (so to speak).

> There were all the aspects together: everything as an object
> as hard-core CS abstraction (like eval and lists and function
> invokation in lisp), as a natural mapping from the real word
> in the computer world, and the english-like aspect.
>
> My question is about newbies (kids in Alan Key's case),
> as I said I cannot answer myself, and it seems
> you can't either <wink>.

I *can* give you personal experience, however.  Whether it was kids brought
in from local high schools to play with early versions of Smalltalk, C.S.
students from Stanford working as summer interns, or programmers in other
parts of Xerox PARC who were not in the Smalltalk development group, it was
the same thing: no one teaching the language to anyone new shied away from
highlighting "everything is an object" (including numbers) right from the
beginning -- quite the opposite, in fact.  (Check out the "Blue Book"
mentioned above, Part One, Chapter 1: "Objects and Messages").  And
everyone in the group certainly *believed* that newbies found such an
approach to be very friendly.  Alan still likes to show videos of
highschoolers using Smalltalk to do advanced things like programming
helicopter flight simulations to prove this point -- which is pretty
impressive when you realize this was happening 25 years ago.

Jim





From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Mar  2 17:53:58 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:53:58 -0000
Subject: newbie password question
References: <20020302003514.13693.00001116@mb-fw.aol.com>
Message-ID: <slrna82lri.32.missive@whave.frontiernet.net>

On 02 Mar 2002 05:35:14 GMT, EtrOFsouls <etrofsouls at aol.com> wrote:
> Im a newbie to programming, and am having trouble with a certain task. I'd like
> to know how to keep track of how often a person guesses at a password and
> limits it to x many guesses. Here's a sample of what I've got so far.
> 
> password = "foobar"
> 
> while password != "unicorn":
>       password = raw_input ("Password:")
> print "Welcome In"
> 
> I understand all this (thank god), but I'm having trouble figuring out how to
> get it to keep track of the number of guesses and then print a message such as
> "Halt, you do not have access!" if the number of guesses exceeds the limit. I'm
> learning this thru on-line tutorials and this was given as an excersise. All I
> have to work with is variables and statements such as...while, if, elif and
> else. 
> 


You also might want to look at the getpass module.
(lets you get the password without echoing input)



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 11 23:32:05 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:32:05 -0500
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <mailman.1015875140.15419.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8D84C5.AB3F36BA@engcorp.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> The VB Currency type is a 64-bit signed integer under the covers, implicitly
> scaled by 10,000.  That's similar to a FixedPoint(4) if you use my
> FixedPoint.py class, although a FixedPoint(4) has no restriction on the
> magnitude, while a VB Currency value is restricted to the range
> 
>     -922,337,203,685,477.5808 <= Currency <= 922,337,203,685,477.5807

Which, coincidentally or not, is exactly the value you get if you 
project the annual increase in Bill Gates net worth until the point
at which he says he will retire, in US dollars for that same year.

Remarkable, really, but I guess he's not the senior architect at
Microsoft for nothing.

-Peter


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Mar 18 17:20:47 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:20:47 GMT
Subject: Windows Scripting Component weirdness
References: <AJfl8.17104$WX3.4217286798@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3C96684A.8040003@skippinet.com.au>

Keith Farmer wrote:
> I modified \Python\Lib\site-packages\win32com\test\testPys.sct into
> WSCTest.wsc, source below.  Running the testPyScriptlet.js code (also below)
> seems to reveal that I am unable to set properties on the instantiated
> object.  No errors are brought up -- the code just behaves as if I never
> assigned new values to the properties.
> 
> What am I doing wrong, assuming that the WSH is behaving properly?

A simple mistake of mine!

> def put_PyProp1(newValue):
>   PyProp1 = newValue
...
> def put_PyProp2(newValue):
>   PyProp2 = newValue

PyProp1 and PyProp2 should be declared global!

Mark.



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar  8 12:28:59 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 17:28:59 GMT
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <B8AD9351.4A8C%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <a6ascr$19l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Fernando Pereira <pereira at cis.upenn.edu>:
| On 3/7/02 9:41 PM, in article
| a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181 at posting.google.com, "les ander"
| <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote:
|> i am just curious as to why different programming languages have different
|> speed. I understand that if a language has an extensive grammar
|> (such as c++) the compiler would take longer. But what about execution?

| You will not get a good answer to this from a newsgroup. No one can
| summarize for you what takes years of education and experience in
| programming language and implementation to learn. The only way to become
| informed on these questions is to study programming languages seriously.

That's true in general, but I wonder if all of Python's performance
problems are really so deep.  A few weeks ago someone posted some
performance measurements and, among other things, noted that version
2.2 took twice as long just to start up.  Did that appalling statistic
attract any investigation into the cause, or did anyone even try that
simple experiment themselves?  Is it true?  Is it news to the people
who released 2.2?  Is there any attention to performance there at all?

I believe I recall something similar in 2.0, due to a mistake in site.py
that was discovered during the beta releases.  Not a hard problem, just
one that wouldn't be noticed until someone wondered why performance
went downhill so fast.  We can wave our hands and say performance is a
tough problem, but it would be more convincing if it looked like it was
getting the most minimal attention.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 11 08:40:56 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:40:56 -0600
Subject: Internships and summer jobs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0203102103050.13778-100000@death.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
References: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0203102103050.13778-100000@death.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <15500.46056.218779.908535@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Brett> Is there any place out there to find a list of Python-related
    Brett> internships or summer jobs?  How about entry-level Python jobs?

Nothing specific to those categories, but I would check the Python Job
board:

    http://www.python.org/Jobs.html

Besides the job listings it contains, it has links to several other sites.

Also, the Python and Zope Directory and Job Market might be worth checking
out:

    http://www.pythonandzope.com/

though it seems to be having some problems.  Report any you encounter to
lozinski at openstepnews.com.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
"As often happens in Net communities, people find all kinds of energy to
compose incisive criticisms of the threads and postings of other members,
when they could be directing that energy towards brilliant new threads and
postings of their own." - Tom Neff



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Wed Mar  6 23:07:23 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:07:23 -0800
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <20020307035851.GA23955@isis.gerrietts.net>
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <3C850173.4050004@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca> <mailman.1015439904.7322.python-list@python.org> <eNAh8.786$kg2.63184@news1.east.cox.net> <20020307035851.GA23955@isis.gerrietts.net>
Message-ID: <20020307040723.GB23955@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Geoff Gerrietts (geoff at gerrietts.net):
> What is it about internet discussion forums that makes everyone
> struggle to find grounds to argue rather than make an effort to
> understand?

I was probably being unfair here. Read here frustration at feeling
like the point's been missed for the lint-picking.

> Again, this is begging the question, and after two pointless arguments
> niggling over the semantics of "smarter", I'm starting to get a little
> annoyed. I can define smarter as "having a higher IQ", as "best
> educated", or as "most able to solve a given problem" and all of them
> work pretty well. Right now I'm talking about ability to ingest raw
> information and retain it. It's clear I should have been a little more
> explicit; I guess terms like "smarter" are just begging for people to
> fight.

And here at least I admit it's my fault, if a little late in the
issue.

I've tried to recast this discussion away from the specifics of my
first article and toward the issues, lest they get lost. I just want
to apologize in advance for letting my frustrations show, lest I give
insult where none was intended or deserved.

I'd rather the thread be intellectually provacative than
provocational, if we can manage it; pedagogy is of interest to me.

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts        <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments 
when he was merely stupid."        --Heinrich Heine



From jason at jorendorff.com  Sat Mar  2 02:11:50 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:11:50 -0600
Subject: SAX-Parser entity
In-Reply-To: <a5nt0b$pta$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEHNDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

fabi kreutz wrote:
> where Character 19 in Row 29 is the occurence of an ?.

Yep, if you are going to use non-ascii characters you have to
specify the encoding in the XML document itself, so the XML parser
knows what's going on.

> After browsing the FAQs I changed the default encoding in site.py to
> iso-8859-1, which had some nice effect, but not on minidom.

What you need is:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>

It must be the very first thing in the XML document; i.e. the two
characters "<?" must be the first two bytes.

(Alternatively, ? can also be written in XML as &#x00FC; .
See http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf for more
codepoints and http://www.unicode.org/charts/ for oodles
more still.)

*** In general, your life as a developer will be much easier
    once you grok Unicode.

(I don't know why people can't just read the XML standard and
figure this out for themselves.  I mean, come on, guys, it's only
40 pages of incredibly dense gibberish.  <wink>)

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From rvoutour at uoguelph.ca  Sun Mar  3 23:09:15 2002
From: rvoutour at uoguelph.ca (Russell Voutour)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 04:09:15 GMT
Subject: Snack mod for python
Message-ID: <a5us1b$ha8$1@testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca>

Hi i'm using the Snack sound module for python and i've run into a problem and 
was wondering if anyone had ever used it before. It installed find but when i use 
the .play() method it tries to open my /dev/dsp and it gets a error because the 
device does not exists it's under dev/sound/dsp. i've looked in the tkConfig file 
and the tclConfig file and can't find anything any sugestions would be helpfull 
thanks 

Russ 

--


From mcfletch at geocities.com  Sun Mar 10 01:53:15 2002
From: mcfletch at geocities.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:53:15 -0500
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C8B02DB.2030805@geocities.com>

I've done this for a commercial shop at which I used to work (5 or 6 
projects).  Using py2exe was the most satisfactory approach I found. 
I'd used the Installer before that, both worked, but py2exe seemed more 
understandable to me.

I needed to hack around some things (such as PIL's plugins), but 
basically py2exe caught most dependencies and created a running app.  I 
passed the output of py2exe onto our installer dude and he wrapped it 
with standard installers (installshield if I recall correctly).  Users 
seemed happy with the results.

I eventually made some modifications so that the output directory was 
the Python path for the application so that I could install plugins/new 
python code without needing to re-install the DLLs.

Enjoy,
Mike

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm considering writing a wxWindows app for Win32.  The only
> way I'm willing to do this is by doing all of the development
> under Unix, and then grit my teeth while I package up the final
> product for Win32.
> 
...
> In order for it to be useful, I'll need to be able to
> distribute it as a stand-alone app to users who don't have (or
> care to have) a regular Python or wxWindows distro installed.
> 
> Optimally, it would be a single "exe" file that doesn't require
> any installation procedure.  If that's not possible, it would
> be permissible to use a typical "isntall-wizard" type
> installation: running the exe installs the required files
> somewhere, adds a start-menu entry, leaves an un-installer
> around.
> 
> It looks like Gordon McMillan's installer might fit the bill.
> 
> Anybody care to share any experiences distributing wxWindows
> apps for Win32?


_______________________________________
   Mike C. Fletcher
   http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From hades at silentone.com  Sun Mar 17 16:05:45 2002
From: hades at silentone.com (Culley Angus)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:05:45 GMT
Subject: pyclbr _modules cache - why?
Message-ID: <3c9501d5.588674328@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz>

Does anyone know the reasoning behind forcing use of the cache in the
pyclbr module.

I am implementing a simple ide where changes to modules are being
updated in the gui... Alas I have had to hack the pyclbr module to
stop it using cached data.

Surely if someone is implementing a classbrowser, it is a fair
assumption that they may be updating the classes being browsed.


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Fri Mar 22 19:33:25 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:33:25 +0100
Subject: Packaging tool
References: <mailman.1016831987.19520.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7gi2h$4mk$1@norfair.nerim.net>

"make" seems to be what you're looking for.
It's not in python, but it does the job.

"mohamed lazreg" <md_lazreg at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
mailman.1016831987.19520.python-list at python.org...
> Dear Pythoneers,
>
> I have been encouraged by the responses I got about my
> bug tracking system question... So now I am looking
> for a free packaging tool writeen in python (it has to
> be in python)... By a packaging tool I mean a tool
> that goes into a development area of a software, takes
> the correct files and binaries depending on some user
> parameters (configuration files) then creates a
> package ready to distribute...
>
> Thank you again for all your help...
>
> Mohamed
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
> http://movies.yahoo.com/
>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 16 02:34:59 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 02:34:59 -0500
Subject: Windows Installation
In-Reply-To: <OqBk8.300$ID.1955@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEABOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jonathan Gardner]
> ...
> My question is twofold:
> 1) Where do I go to find a neat free software (READ: No problems
> with GPL) windows installer (that works on all windows platforms)?

Give Inno Setup a try:

    http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php

It's free and doesn't require a GUI.  You can a write a plain text file to
drive it.

> I could work through this on the Linux box and then have the guys on
> windows try stuff out realtime for me.

Better:  shame your Windows users into writing the installer.  If they can't
figure out how to use Inno Setup, they're not users worth having anyway
<wink>.

Alternative:  Ship your app in a zip file and skip the start menu (etc)
business.  Windows users should be able to create their own shortcuts -- the
OS has extensive drag-'n-drop facilities for doing so.

but-they'll-whine-even-if-you-do-it-for-them<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From kragen at pobox.com  Wed Mar 20 18:37:37 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 18:37:37 -0500
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
References: <mailman.1016624252.6101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <83y9gmdd4u.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"Bruce Dykes" <bkd at graphnet.com> writes:
> class call_record:
>     def __init__(self, record=''):
>         self.record_id=record[0:5]
>         self.date=record[6:11]

I'd use:

import struct
self.record_id, self.date = struct.unpack("5s x 5s", record)

This has the following advantages:
- it makes it clear that you're skipping a byte between record_id and date
  (after you read struct.__doc__ to find out what x means)
- it doesn't require math to figure out the length of each field
- it gives you an error instead of silently wrong results if the
  format string is wrong (although the error is not very helpful)
- it's a lot shorter

It has the disadvantage that errors are harder to diagnose --- you
have to use struct.calcsize to figure out whether your string is too
long or too short, then change the string or the format to get it to
work, then look at the results.



From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  8 05:19:43 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:19:43 GMT
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0203071057.57204175@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uofhz8ijm.fsf@python.net>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:

> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list at python.org>...

> >     * find a Python bug without a proposed fix and write one (there are
> >       currently between 250 and 300 open bug reports):
> >           http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470
> 
> Although one might think that this requires a "Python internals skill
> level" of at least 7 out of 10,

This isn't true.  You need to know how to use "cvs" and "diff", and
*some* bugs require a "Python internals skill level" of at least 11
out of 10, but most don't and many probably don't require more that 3
or 4 out of ten.  Besides, what better way of acquiring the skill to
fix deep bugs than to practice fixing shallow ones?

CHeers,
M.

-- 
  There are two ways of constructing a software design: one way is to
  make it so simple that there  are obviously no deficiencies and the
  other way  is to make it so complicated  that there are  no obvious
  deficiencies.                                      -- C. A. R. Hoare


From jh at web.de  Mon Mar 11 18:58:49 2002
From: jh at web.de (Jürgen Hermann)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:58:49 +0100
Subject: [ANN] MoinMoin 0.11
Message-ID: <a6jgd3$o1o$01$1@news.t-online.com>

A WikiWikiWeb is a collaborative hypertext environment, with an emphasis
on easy access to and modification of information. MoinMoin is a Python
WikiClone that allows you to easily set up your own wiki, only requiring
a Web server and a Python installation (1.5.2, 1.6 or 2.0).

Most important new features: file attachments, definition list markup
(glossaries), change notification via email, variable substitution when
saving pages, edit preview, and improved documentation.

Note that the RSS features require a recent PyXML (CVS or 0.7) due to
bugs in the namespace handling of xml.sax.saxutils in earlier versions.
This is (hopefully) automatically detected on every installation.

Statistical features are NOT designed to work with Python 1.5.2 and
require Python 2.0 or higher. Overall, MoinMoin 0.11 is not explicitely
tested for 1.5.2 compatibility.

Homepage:
    http://moin.sf.net/

Download:
    http://sf.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=8482&release_id=70345
    http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/moin/

Mailing lists:
    http://lists.sf.net/lists/listinfo/moin-user
    http://lists.sf.net/lists/listinfo/moin-devel

New features:
    * XML formatting now (most often) produces well-formed, and, depending
      on proper layout of the wiki page, valid StyleBook XML
    * Headers are now automatically numbered, unless you set the config
      item 'show_section_numbers' to 0
    * "#pragma section-numbers off" (or "0") switches that off explicitely,
      and "on" or "1" enables numbering
    * Added a "contributions" directory for 3rd party extensions
    * AttachFile action, contributed by Ken Sugino; note that you have
      to enable this action because of the possibility of DoS attacks
      (malicious uploads), by adding this to your moin_config:
            allowed_actions = ['AttachFile']
    * "attachment:" URL scheme allows access to attachments, to get files
       from other pages use "attachment:WikiName/filename.ext".
    * New macros: Date(unixtimestamp) and DateTime(unixtimestamp) to
      display a timestamp according to system/user settings
    * Variable substitution when a page is saved, note that saving
      template pages does NOT expand variables. Supported are:
        @DATE@      Current date in the system's format
        @TIME@      Current date and time in the user's format
        @USERNAME@  Just the user's name (or his domain/IP)
        @USER@      Signature "-- loginname"
        @SIG@       Dated Signature "-- loginname date time"
        @MAILTO@    A fancy mailto: link with the user's data
    * Copied some new emoticons from PikiePikie
        || {{{ :-? }}} || :-? || tongue.gif ||
        || {{{ :\  }}} || :\  || ohwell.gif ||
        || {{{ >:> }}} || >:> || devil.gif  ||
        || {{{ %)  }}} || %)  || eyes.gif   ||
        || {{{ @)  }}} || @)  || eek.gif    ||
        || {{{ |)  }}} || |)  || tired.gif  ||
        || {{{ ;)) }}} || ;)) || lol.gif    ||
    * AbandonedPages macro
    * Added definition list markup: {{{<whitespace>term:: definition}}}
    * Added email notification features contributed by Daniel Sa?
    * SystemInfo: show "Entries in edit log"
    * Added "RSS" icon to RecentChanges macro and code to generate a
      RecentChanges RSS channel, see
          http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?UnifiedRecentChanges
      for details
    * Added config.sitename and config.interwikiname parameter
    * Better WikiFarm support:
      * <datadir>/plugin/macro and <datadir>/plugin/action can be used
        to store macros and actions local to a specific wiki instance
      * config.shared_intermap can contain a pathname to a shared
        "intermap.txt" file (i.e. one stored outside the datadir)
    * added `backtick` shortcut for {{{inline literal}}} (has to be
      enabled by "backtick_meta=1" in the config file); note that ``
      is then a shorter replacement for '''''' escaping
    * added inline search fields (at the bottom of each page)
    * Added preview to the editor, including spell checking
    * New languages: Chinese (Changzhe Han) and Portuguese (Jorge
      Godoy), updated French (Lucas Bruand), added Korean (Hye-Shik
      Chang) and Italian (Lele Gaifax)
    * New SystemAdmin macro
    * `[[Anchor(anchorname)]]` macro to insert anchors into a page,
      and [#anchorname Anchor Links].
    * User option to open editor view via a double-click
    * Added commentary field to editor, recent changes and page info
    * Page trails (user option)
    * UserPreferences: checkboxes for double-click edit, page trail,
      fancy links, emoticons, jump to last page visited, and some
      other yes/no options
    * "config.nonexist_qm" is now the default for a user setting
    * `[[GetText(text)]]` macro loads I18N texts (mainly intended
      for use on Help pages)
    * table attributes via "||<attrlist> ... ||", more details on
      http://purl.net/wiki/moin/HelpOnTables
    * PythonFaq interwiki tag and support for $PAGE placeholder
    * event logging, as the basis for future statistics
    * "moin-dump" command line tool to create a static copy of
      the wiki content
    * "config.external_diff" allows to set an exact path to the
      command, or change the name to for example "gdiff" if GNU
      diff is not a native command in your UNIX flavour
    * `[[PageSize]]` macro
    * the interwiki name "Self" now always points to the own wiki
    * config.title1 and config.title2 are inserted into the output
      right before and after the system title html code (title1
      is right after the <body> tag and normally undefined, title2
      defaults to the "<hr>" above the page contents)
    * Additional link on diff pages to ignore whitespace changes
    * Subpages (config.allow_subpages, config.page_icons_up)
    * ^superscript^ markup
    * `[[FootNote]]` macro
    * many other new config options, see HelpOnConfiguration for
      a complete list
    * [[StatsChart(type)]] shows statistical charts (currently
      defined types: hitcounts, pagesize, useragents)
    * 'inline:' scheme works like 'attachment:', but tries to
      inline the content of the attachment into the page;
      currently knows about "*.py" sources and colorizes them
    * support for Java applet "TWikiDrawPlugin" via
      drawing:<drawingname> URL scheme (you need to activate
      the AttachFile action if you want drawings)
    * numeric entities (&#nnnnn;) are now optionally NOT escaped,
      which allows you to insert more characters into a Latin-1
      page, especially the Euro symbol
    * navi_bar is now a list of page names which should be linked
      on every page
    * test.cgi is now rolled into moin.cgi, and can be called
      by adding "?test" to the wiki base URL. Also, as a security
      feature, the server's environment is only shown for requests
      local to the web server.

Unfinished features:
    * user defined forms
    * XML export of all data in the wiki

Documentation:
    * extended the online help ("Help*" pages)
    * German help pages (thanks to Thomas Waldmann)

Bugfixes:
    * #425857: python Parser bug on the second call
    * #424917: Caching control
    * #465499: Two HTTPS problems
    * #491155: FrontPage hardcoded
    * Handling of inbound UTF-8 encoded URIs (only with Python >= 2.0)
    * Fix for subtle changes in "re" of Python 2.2
    * User-provided URLs are now never URL-escaped, which allows appending
      #anchors and using %20 for spaces in InterWiki links





From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 08:09:39 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:09:39 +0000
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015273747.23915.python-list@python.org> <slrna8j7uc.l47.quinn@pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8k2cj.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 9 Mar 2002 05:38:20 GMT, Quinn Dunkan <quinn at pfennig.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:26:48 -0800, James_Althoff at i2.com <James_Althoff at i2.com>
>wrote:
>>Carel,
>>
>>Thanks for the explanation, below.  Very interesting.
>>
>>Yes, I agree with your basic analysis that producing an iterator for an
>>integer makes a lot more sense if one accepts integers as first-class
>>objects.  The fact that Python treats integers as well as everything else
>>as first-class objects is one of the big reasons why I like Python so much.
>
>I have no trouble accepting integers as objects just like any other type, and I
>still don't like iter(5). 

Nor do I, since it bdoes the same thing as range(5) and/or 
xrange(5).

One possibility might be a new looping construct, do:

   do 5:
      print "this will be printed 5 times"

Note that you can't get hold of a do loop's loop variable. This 
would be easy to optimise, I imagine.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From rich at worldsinfinite.com  Thu Mar  7 10:30:51 2002
From: rich at worldsinfinite.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:51 -0500
Subject: CP4E/D&D/Twins (WAY Off-Topic)
In-Reply-To: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B49@SRM201002>
References: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B49@SRM201002>
Message-ID: <200203071530.g27FUpk02021@localhost.localdomain>

On Thursday 07 March 2002 10:19 am, Gustavo Cordova wrote:
> [ snip ]
>
> But, what about identical twins, who speak their own language
> well before they start speaking their parents? Aren't they
> communicating with their peer(s)?
>
> [ snip ]
>
> Sometimes I wonder if I'd have twice the fun if I was two,
> er, had a twin. :-) Or maybe I'd be twice as silly and make
> half as much sense.
>
> [ snip ]

My wife is a twin.  Apparently she and her twin sister had their own little 
language for a while, although neither of them remember exactly what it 
entailed and noone in the family bothered to record their twin-speak.  This 
persisted into their early childhood (about 5) from what I'm told.

Oh, and they do seem to have twice as much fun when they're together BTW...

Rich



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar 15 20:38:33 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:38:33 -0600
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <007901c1cc8b$4b8655e0$0101010a@local>

If you want help, you must include your source.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Surajsub" <surajsub at netscape.net>


> Hi,
> I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
> speed.I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
> The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
> supposed to be
> 
> uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)
> 
> However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives
> 
> uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
> how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..
> string.lstrip does not work either.
> 
> what am i doing wrong?
> TIA
> Suraj





From ngps at madcap.netmemetic.com  Tue Mar  5 11:00:41 2002
From: ngps at madcap.netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 16:00:41 GMT
Subject: SSL Server Sockets?
References: <a5ijos$1565$1@news.idiom.com> <a5j0e9$rkg$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg> <a5kt37$63j$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <a62q39$spj$1@coco.singnet.com.sg>

According to Jim Dennis <jimd at vega.starshine.org>:
>  ... so I guess and it's still too closely coupled to the 
>  swig version so 1.3.10u is too new and 1.1 is (understandably)
>  too old.
> 
>  Ng, are you planning on updating this to Python2.2 using the 
>  latest swig?  Could we find an (international) volunteer to 
>  maintain a Debian package?  

I can't keep up with SWIG, so I'm doing this: bundle the output of
SWIG and a setup.py that uses the bundled files.

Tested ok on FreeBSD and Win98 with Python 2.2. The snapshot should appear
on my website tomorrow.

Cheers.



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> * http://www.netmemetic.com



From miracle at paradise.net.nz  Tue Mar 26 15:28:38 2002
From: miracle at paradise.net.nz (Matthew Sherborne)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:28:38 +1200
Subject: How to get a key from  dictionary?
References: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost>
 <009501c1d458$0a5a86c0$3425fea9@0016314730>
Message-ID: <002d01c1d504$d0749010$08020196@Jonah>

Sorry to be a show off, but I reckon that this way may be faster. Sorry again. The other replies are very helpful.  :)

def findKey(val):
  for key, value in dict.items():
    if value == val: return key
  return None
  
GBU
Matthew Sherborne

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Arnold" <darnold02 at sprynet.com>
To: <printers at sendme.cz>; <python-list at python.org>; <tutor at python.org>; <activepython at listserv.activestate.com>; <python-help at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: How to get a key from dictionary?


> >>> targetval = 2
> >>> dict = {'aa':1, 'bb':2, 'cc': 3, 'dd': 1}
> >>> targetval = 2
> >>> for key in dict.keys():
>           if dict[key] == targetval:
>             print "found", targetval, "at key", key
> 
> found 2 at key bb
> >>> targetval = 1
> >>> for key in dict.keys():
>           if dict[key] == targetval:
>             print "found", targetval, "at key", key
> 
> found 1 at key aa
> found 1 at key dd
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A" <printers at sendme.cz>
> To: <python-list at python.org>; <tutor at python.org>;
> <activepython at listserv.activestate.com>; <python-help at python.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:16 PM
> Subject: How to get a key from dictionary?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> > Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key according to a
> > value ?
> > For example
> > I have a dictionary
> >
> > dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}
> >
> > and
> > dict['aa']
> > is 1
> >
> > But how can I for value 1 find out  key? (That is here  'aa')
> >
> > Thank you for help
> > Ladislav
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ActivePython mailing list
> > ActivePython at listserv.ActiveState.com
> > To unsubscribe: http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/mysubs
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ActivePython mailing list
> ActivePython at listserv.ActiveState.com
> To unsubscribe: http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/mysubs
> 
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From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Fri Mar  8 22:18:07 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:18:07 -0500
Subject: why is python slow?
References: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com> <u8hbcgr35p4f4@news.supernews.com> <B8AE231F.4AF0%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <kuelivht8g.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <B8AEE297.4C02%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <7xvgc6fnus.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <B8AEE91F.4C0B%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 3/8/02 9:59 PM, in article 7xvgc6fnus.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com, "Paul
Rubin" <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:

> Fernando Pereira <pereira at cis.upenn.edu> writes:
>> The irreducible fact is that Python needs extensive runtime type checks,
>> Java doesn't. One could argue that agressive inlining of built-in operations
>> and type checks followed by removal of redundant machine instructions might
>> have the effect of removing most type checks, but that needs to be shown.
> 
> 40 years of Lisp compiler implementations have shown pretty conclusively
> that these problems are surmountable.

It's precisely because I know that history that I raise those points. I
don't want to dissect here the lessons of history, but the practical fact is
that the heroic optimization efforts of Lisp compilers have not proven to be
*economically* viable. That is, the cost of creating, maintaining, and
running such compilers has been huge relative to the lines of code that they
succeed in optimizing. It's easier to build compilers producing fast code
for statically typed languages. That is, the costs are spread over all the
programmers who have to obey compile-time type disciplines (and those costs
may be lower than one things, as those disciplines catch bugs), rather than
being concentrated on the compiler developers. This is not a critique of
dynamically-typed languages, but rather an observation from 25 years of
implementing and using such languages.

-- F



From mzou at bu.edu  Sun Mar 24 23:45:23 2002
From: mzou at bu.edu (ricky)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:45:23 -0500
Subject: question: python and UDP
References: <a7m5i4$6eb$1@news3.bu.edu> <3C9E9CFD.AC6A149B@engcorp.com> <a7m7bo$a4q$1@news3.bu.edu> <3C9EA4CC.1208750A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7ma16$g08$1@news3.bu.edu>

sorry about that last msg i sent, i didn't mean to ask people to do work for
me
i was out of my mind, i posted the msg without even thinking about it...
I found the documentation about struct, and successfully constrcuted a
struct...
i haven't tested on the proxy server yet
if i get into more troubles, i'll post another msg with more details

thank you, peter and all

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3C9EA4CC.1208750A at engcorp.com...
> ricky wrote:
> >
> > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > > ricky wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am trying to write a python program to connect to a proxy server
which
> > > > takes the following header:
> > > > however, the proxy server doesn't seem to understand the header i
sent
> > > > to it.
> > >
> > > Are you looking for the 'struct' module?  That should be enough to
> > > produce the header format you need.
>
> > how would i use the struct module?
>
> Well, you could start by looking at the documentation on it, and
> asking specific questions to clarify any misunderstanding that
> remains.  If you don't know where to look for the documentation,
> feel free to ask.
>
> If you post some sample code which you've tried, we can probably
> explain why the "server doesn't seem to understand the header"
> you sent it, and if you try using struct and still have trouble,
> post samples of your efforts and we can work on improving those.
>
> (You haven't given enough info yet for anyone to just write
> the code for you, even though there are likely people here
> who would be happy to do that.  I'm generally not one of them.)
>
> -Peter




From paul at boddie.net  Mon Mar 11 10:09:56 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 07:09:56 -0800
Subject: scripting Outlook express with Python
References: <b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203110709.6056b0e1@posting.google.com>

sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) wrote in message news:<b03e80d.0203100045.6ea2ae06 at posting.google.com>...
> Does anyone have any experience, code, etc...? I guess my first
> question should be: is it possible?

Ignoring the platform switch recommendations (which are probably meant
for your own good, anyway), I would use something like PythonWin to
investigate the type libraries and automation objects available to
you.

Use the "Tools" -> "COM Browser" menu option to take a look at the
huge number of COM interfaces that are likely to be around on your
desktop. Hopefully, you will find one for Outlook Express - I found
"OutlookExpress.MessageList".

Then, use the "Tools" -> "COM Makepy utility" menu option to see the
available libraries, and see if there's anything relevant. The version
of Outlook I have uses the "Microsoft Outlook 9.0 Object Library
(9.0)" but you would need to check with the Microsoft documentation to
see what Outlook Express provides - their Web site usually has this
kind of information on it.

Paul


From bh at intevation.de  Thu Mar  7 06:19:41 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 12:19:41 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015455997.18295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qpu2gzktu.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

James_Althoff at i2.com writes:

> [James Althoff]
> > Can you suggest a less contrived example that might be a problem?
> [Bernhard Herzog]
> > x, = 1
> >
> > would assign 0 to x instead of raising an error.
> 
> Agreed.  Note that this example has been in the PEP from the beginning.

Indeed. It's been a while since I read that pep :)

The pep doesn't say anything about the other contexts in which iterators
are used (except for the sequence unpacking above).

With iterable integers:

>>> list(4)
[0, 1, 2, 3]
>>> tuple(4)
(0, 1, 2, 3)
>>> max(4)
3
>>> min(4)
0
>>> filter(None, 4)  # also for map and reduce
[1, 2, 3]
>>> L = []   
>>> L.extend(3)
>>> L
[0, 1, 2]
>>> zip(3)
[(0,), (1,), (2,)]

Do we really want all of these new behaviors?

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Mar 22 03:59:35 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:59:35 GMT
Subject: CGI, etc.
References: <mailman.1016770055.25259.python-list@python.org> <a7dgl7.3vs45c5.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <XnCm8.734$d7.213146@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Sheila King" <usenet at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
news:a7dgl7.3vs45c5.1 at kserver.org...
> [posted and mailed]
>
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:06:06 -0000, "purplebo1212"
<purplebo1212 at yahoo.com>
> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <mailman.1016770055.25259.python-list at python.org>:
>
> > Hi! I'm new to Python and was looking at writing an CGI script that
> > would execute a program. Any pointers?
> > thanx
> >
> >
> http://www.python.org/topics/web/
>

btw, the instructions linked to here for doing CGI on windows under iis are
out of date (only covering 9*/NT).  For win2k (server and professional) see
http://www.e-coli.net/mag.shtml (or http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis.html and
http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis_server.html specifically)

-d




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 17:52:23 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:52:23 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203301456390.16587-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEECOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

>>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

[Pearu Peterson]
> It seems that this is already decided as Guido is the author and also
> the only one who accepts PEPs.

Guido has rejected his own PEPs before.  It depends on the quality of
arguments raised, both pro and con.

> ...
> In future (Python 2.>=3, >3), are these constructs valid or must they
> be replaced with
>
>   while bool(x):
>     ...
>
> ? :(

Under the PEP "while x:" continues to work fine.

> Ka-Ping Yee has raised related conserns in
>
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-March/020893.html
>
> that never got a proper answer from Guido nor others.

There are 8 replies to his msg.  I don't know what you mean by "proper".
Under the PEP, none of the stuff he was worried about breaks, and that was
explained.  I thought Greg Ewing's reply was more than enough:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-March/020921.html




From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar 13 19:45:27 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:45:27 +0900
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org> <mailman.1016051603.1396.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CcSj8.254$ID.1135@news.hananet.net>

Clark C . Evans scribbled with his keyboard:

> On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 11:34:55AM -0500, ruud de rooij wrote:
> | perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
> | (analogous to dictionaries).
> 
> Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
> does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
> as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
> consistent, and quite elegant.
> 

It certainly provides a feature I would use often.

Jonathan


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 13:44:51 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:44:51 +0100
Subject: python and analyze image format?
In-Reply-To: <87henkickf.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>
References: <87henkickf.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>
Message-ID: <20020313184450.GA1227@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 12:48, Michael A. Miller ?crivit:
> Anybody know of a python reader/write for analyze image data and
> header files?  Would you provide a pointer if you do?
 
I'm not quite sure if I understand you correctly, but the imghdr module
in the standard Python library can check the file format of an image
file.

If you're on Unix, the "file" system command can detect a whole lot
more.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 14.3 ?C      Wind: 1.2 m/s



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  8 18:29:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 23:29:03 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8827E5.C7D5036C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3C880AC2.6070708@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <a6bhfv$2kp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:57:10 GMT, Joshua Macy <l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com> wrote:

>Greg Ewing wrote:
>
>> I have another idea that doesn't suffer from that
>> problem.
>> 
>>   def string my_string:
>>     This is a free-form string constant. Its value consists
>>     of all the text at this indentation level, verbatim,
>>     with the indentation stripped off. It can contain
>>     ', ", ''', """, \ or any other characters.
>> 
>> 
>
>
>But then you have to indent everything in the text to that level, which 
>isn't quite the same as cut-and-paste arbitrary text any more.  Granted, 
>it's not hard to do with a good editor, but neither is escaping a 
>whatever triple quotes you might find in the text (even Notepad can do 
>that).
>
>For that matter, the PEPs to make Python more unforgiving of what's 
>contained in strings (only valid declared encodings or binary as octal 
>escape sequences) seem to be advancing rapidly, so schemes for stuffing 
>more arbitrary and unexamined junk into the source code seem to be
>heading in the wrong direction.
>
This is an interesting aspect. My example of pasting text into a current source
really should take into account the encoding of both the text to be pasted and the
destination context. I.e., ISTM a conversion to whatever the current internal representation
of the destination was should be done (which might raise an exception), followed by
conversion for display purposes (which might also raise an exception in the context
of a raw string, where unprintable characters can't be used! See my other post for
some weirdness re current r'strings').


>I guess I don't really see the motivation for the proposed feature.  If 
>triple quoting isn't sufficient, I'd take that as a sign that the 
>material should be a separate data file...it's not like Python makes it 
>hard to read an external file into a string.
>
No, but they are hard to see when you are reading code that just does i/o,
and if you have dozens of snippets, that would be a lot of files. Of course,
you could put them in a multipart MIME formatted file with, ahem, delimiters
between the pieces ;-)



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  8 20:36:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 01:36:37 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015612483.10031.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6bov5$sjq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:13:48 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

>On 4 Mar 2002, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:56:45 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3 Mar 2002, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>>
>>>>Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?
>>>
>>>Have it in a separate file.
>>>
>>That's fine in a lot of cases, but does require reliable presence
>>of both files. It's not so convenient if you are trying to write
>>e.g. a program generator and want to write out snippets containing
>>mixed triple quoted doc strings and data etc. Or if you are
>>writing copied example snips as part of dynamic HTML from CGI.
>
>>===the stuff I want===
>>
>>
>>Sure, I can copy it and make a separate file, and write some code to
>>read the file into my snippet string, but would you actually prefer to
>>do it that way? Ok, I could write a class to systematize it. Maybe I
>>will, when I want use file-stored snippets, but I'd like both options
>>;-) And I guess I'd like to have Q' as well as q' ;-)
>
>Well, maybe my first impressions were wrong. After all, the feature is
>convenient. But probably you will need to coordinate it well
>with encoding things. What if "dochere"'s encoding need to be
>different from main program one? Are binary data allowed?
>Otherwise the feature will become grammatical disaster...
>
Thanks for the first glimmer of positive feedback ;-)
But you put your finger on an interesting aspect, which is important
whether this particular quoting mechanism exists or not. Cf. my other post
in this thread re eval("r'\x07'") etc.

It's funny, but "raw" strings are less likely to represent binary data
than ordinary strings. You can't re-render a raw string containing binary data
as a raw string not containing binary data, whereas you can with an ordinary
string, since escapes are available. The normal "raw" string is actually
usually representing a source string, without interpreting escapes, so it
itself can't represent control characters within the normal source alphabet,
it can only represent representations of control/unprintable characters.
So the "raw" name is misleading in a way.

If you pasted binary (i.e., encoded as uninterpreted octets) anywhere into a
Python source encoded as Latin-1, presumably the octets would go 1:1 into
the source, but when you saw them on the screen, they would appear according
to the screen font, yet when re-rendered, would appear escaped (inside strings
otherwise they would be syntax errors (except maybe comments?)), as in:

 >>> '^G','\x07',r'^G'
 ('\x07', '\x07', '\x07')

... where I typed Ctrl-G binary data into the source where the screen rendered ^G.

Presumably, if the source encoding were UTF-8, pasting octets would change
them to UTF-8. However, interpreting the UTF-8 source representation of
a an octet-string (o'...' ?) would generate the original binary octet
sequence as the value of the internal data representation at run time. I think ;-)

>>>Making Python as gibberish as Perl is. And all that only to
>>>have Windows path be written without double-\
>>Not 'only'. I said 'also' ;-)  Perhaps my choice of '|' delimiter triggered
>>your 'gibberish as Perl' detector?
>
>;-) Maybe. I wonder why Perl novices do not know about "dochere"
>capabilities of Perl.
>
I don't know. It's not that prominent in the camel book, but I found it ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cpbotha at crabtree.cpbotha.net  Sun Mar 31 08:37:07 2002
From: cpbotha at crabtree.cpbotha.net (Charl P. Botha)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:37:07 GMT
Subject: GUI programming
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org> <a84561$p5g$1@wanadoo.fr> <slrnaabbct.npb.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net> <4fsdauofmus28t630866pgf4cu3n6bp16m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaae4gg.ob0.cpbotha@crabtree.cpbotha.net>

In article <4fsdauofmus28t630866pgf4cu3n6bp16m at 4ax.com>, 
Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:
> "Charl P. Botha" <cpbotha at i_triple_e.org> wrote:
>>With wxPython, one has to get, configure and build wxWindows first (and this
>>does take quite a while).  
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> 1. Download
> 2. Run Setup
> 3. Use it.
> 
> The whole operation takes less than 5 minutes.

Hmm, strange that Tkinter is still the default GUI then.

As I mentioned, I think wxPython is a great library, but Tkinter is still
easier to get running on the majority of different platforms.  In addition,
the wxWindows abstraction paradigm makes it more difficult to maintain and
debug, as it sits above the widget level and has to cater for different
widget sets on different platforms.  This abstraction results in a more
complex system and a much greater porting effort.

You may try to negate this point, but keep in mind that people who have
realised this are also working on a wxWindows that creates its own widgets
by making use of system-dependent drawing calls, i.e. the abstraction is
below the widget level.  This makes for a wxWindows that is more easy to
port and to debug.

Also keep in mind that I tend to think in a platform-independent way, where
you seem to focus on the Windows situation.

To summarise: I think very highly of wxPython, but, at this stage, Tkinter
is generally easier to get running on all the platforms that Python
supports. This situation could obviously change as wxPython continues
maturing.

Not wishing to start a Python-GUI-debate again,

-- 
charl p. botha http://cpbotha.net/ http://visualisation.tudelft.nl/


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 00:39:10 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:39:10 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
Message-ID: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.

A long discussion has already been held in python-dev about this PEP;
most things you could bring up have already been brought up there.
The head of the thread there is:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-March/020750.html

I believe that the review questions listed near the beginning of the
PEP are the main unresolved issues from that discussion.

This PEP is also on the web, of course, at:

    http://python.org/peps/pep-0285.html

If you prefer to look at code, here's a reasonably complete
implementation (in C; it may be slightly out of date relative to the
current CVS):

    http://python.org/sf/528022

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

PEP: 285
Title: Adding a bool type
Version: $Revision: 1.12 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2002/03/30 05:37:02 $
Author: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Created: 8-Mar-2002
Python-Version: 2.3
Post-History: 8-Mar-2002, 30-Mar-2002


Abstract

    This PEP proposes the introduction of a new built-in type, bool,
    with two constants, False and True.  The bool type would be a
    straightforward subtype (in C) of the int type, and the values
    False and True would behave like 0 and 1 in most respects (for
    example, False==0 and True==1 would be true) except repr() and
    str().  All built-in operations that conceptually return a Boolean
    result will be changed to return False or True instead of 0 or 1;
    for example, comparisons, the "not" operator, and predicates like
    isinstance().


Review

    Dear reviewers:

    I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
    following three issues:

    1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

    2) Should str(True) return "True" or "1": "1" might reduce
       backwards compatibility problems, but looks strange to me.
       (repr(True) would always return "True".)

    3) Should the constants be called 'True' and 'False'
       (corresponding to None) or 'true' and 'false' (as in C++, Java
       and C99).

    Most other details of the proposal are pretty much forced by the
    backwards compatibility requirement; e.g. True == 1 and
    True+1 == 2 must hold, else reams of existing code would break.

    Minor additional issues:

    4) Should we strive to eliminate non-Boolean operations on bools
       in the future, through suitable warnings, so that e.g. True+1
       would eventually (e.g. in Python 3000 be illegal).  Personally,
       I think we shouldn't; 28+isleap(y) seems totally reasonable to
       me.

    5) Should operator.truth(x) return an int or a bool.  Tim Peters
       believes it should return an int because it's been documented
       as such.  I think it should return a bool; most other standard
       predicates (e.g. issubtype()) have also been documented as
       returning 0 or 1, and it's obvious that we want to change those
       to return a bool.


Rationale

    Most languages eventually grow a Boolean type; even C99 (the new
    and improved C standard, not yet widely adopted) has one.

    Many programmers apparently feel the need for a Boolean type; most
    Python documentation contains a bit of an apology for the absence
    of a Boolean type.  I've seen lots of modules that defined
    constants "False=0" and "True=1" (or similar) at the top and used
    those.  The problem with this is that everybody does it
    differently.  For example, should you use "FALSE", "false",
    "False", "F" or even "f"?  And should false be the value zero or
    None, or perhaps a truth value of a different type that will print
    as "true" or "false"?  Adding a standard bool type to the language
    resolves those issues.

    Some external libraries (like databases and RPC packages) need to
    be able to distinguish between Boolean and integral values, and
    while it's usually possible to craft a solution, it would be
    easier if the language offered a standard Boolean type.

    The standard bool type can also serve as a way to force a value to
    be interpreted as a Boolean, which can be used to normalize
    Boolean values.  Writing bool(x) is much clearer than "not not x"
    and much more concise than

        if x:
            return 1
        else:
            return 0

    Here are some arguments derived from teaching Python.  When
    showing people comparison operators etc. in the interactive shell,
    I think this is a bit ugly:

        >>> a = 13
        >>> b = 12
        >>> a > b
        1
        >>>

    If this was:

        >>> a > b
        True
        >>>

    it would require one millisecond less thinking each time a 0 or 1
    was printed.

    There's also the issue (which I've seen puzzling even experienced
    Pythonistas who had been away from the language for a while) that if
    you see:

        >>> cmp(a, b)
        1
        >>> cmp(a, a)
        0
        >>> 

    you might be tempted to believe that cmp() also returned a truth
    value.  If ints are not (normally) used for Booleans results, this
    would stand out much more clearly as something completely
    different.


Specification

    The following Python code specifies most of the properties of the
    new type:

        class bool(int):

            def __new__(cls, val=0):
                # This constructor always returns an existing instance
                if val:
                    return True
                else:
                    return False

            def __repr__(self):
                if self:
                    return "True"
                else:
                    return "False"

            __str__ = __repr__

            def __and__(self, other):
                if isinstance(other, bool):
                    return bool(int(self) & int(other))
                else:
                    return int.__and__(self, other)

            __rand__ = __and__

            def __or__(self, other):
                if isinstance(other, bool):
                    return bool(int(self) | int(other))
                else:
                    return int.__or__(self, other)

            __ror__ = __or__

            def __xor__(self, other):
                if isinstance(other, bool):
                    return bool(int(self) ^ int(other))
                else:
                    return int.__xor__(self, other)

            __rxor__ = __xor__

        # Bootstrap truth values through sheer willpower
        False = int.__new__(bool, 0)
        True = int.__new__(bool, 1)

    The values False and True will be singletons, like None; the C
    implementation will not allow other instances of bool to be
    created.  At the C level, the existing globals Py_False and
    Py_True will be appropriated to refer to False and True.

    All built-in operations that are defined to return a Boolean
    result will be changed to return False or True instead of 0 or 1.
    In particular, this affects comparisons (<, <=, ==, !=, >, >=, is,
    is not, in, not in), the unary operator 'not', the built-in
    functions callable(), hasattr(), isinstance() and issubclass(),
    the dict method has_key(), the string and unicode methods
    endswith(), isalnum(), isalpha(), isdigit(), islower(), isspace(),
    istitle(), isupper(), and startswith(), the unicode methods
    isdecimal() and isnumeric(), and the 'closed' attribute of file
    objects.

    Note that subclassing from int means that True+1 is valid and
    equals 2, and so on.  This is important for backwards
    compatibility: because comparisons and so on currently return
    integer values, there's no way of telling what uses existing
    applications make of these values.


Compatibility

    Because of backwards compatibility, the bool type lacks many
    properties that some would like to see.  For example, arithmetic
    operations with one or two bool arguments is allowed, treating
    False as 0 and True as 1.  Also, a bool may be used as a sequence
    index.

    I don't see this as a problem, and I don't want evolve the
    language in this direction either; I don't believe that a stricter
    interpretation of "Booleanness" makes the language any clearer.

    Another consequence of the compatibility requirement is that the
    expression "True and 6" has the value 6, and similarly the
    expression "False or None" has the value None.  The "and" and "or"
    operators are usefully defined to return the first argument that
    determines the outcome, and this won't change; in particular, they
    don't force the outcome to be a bool.  Of course, if both
    arguments are bools, the outcome is always a bool.  It can also
    easily be coerced into being a bool by writing for example
    "bool(x and y)".


Issues

    Because the repr() or str() of a bool value is different from an
    int value, some code (for example doctest-based unit tests, and
    possibly database code that relies on things like "%s" % truth)
    may fail.  How much of a backwards compatibility problem this will
    be, I don't know.  If we this turns out to be a real problem, we
    could changes the rules so that str() of a bool returns "0" or
    "1", while repr() of a bool still returns "False" or "True".

    Other languages (C99, C++, Java) name the constants "false" and
    "true", in all lowercase.  In Python, I prefer to stick with the
    example set by the existing built-in constants, which all use
    CapitalizedWords: None, Ellipsis, NotImplemented (as well as all
    built-in exceptions).  Python's built-in module uses all lowercase
    for functions and types only.  But I'm willing to consider the
    lowercase alternatives if enough people think it looks better.

    It has been suggested that, in order to satisfy user expectations,
    for every x that is considered true in a Boolean context, the
    expression x == True should be true, and likewise if x is
    considered false, x == False should be true.  This is of course
    impossible; it would mean that e.g. 6 == True and 7 == True, from
    which one could infer 6 == 7.  Similarly, [] == False == None
    would be true, and one could infer [] == None, which is not the
    case.  I'm not sure where this suggestion came from; it was made
    several times during the first review period.  For truth testing
    of a value, one should use "if", e.g. "if x: print 'Yes'", not
    comparison to a truth value; "if x == True: print 'Yes'" is not
    only wrong, it is also strangely redundant.


Implementation

    An experimental, but fairly complete implementation in C has been
    uploaded to the SourceForge patch manager:

    http://python.org/sf/528022


Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.



Local Variables:
mode: indented-text
indent-tabs-mode: nil
fill-column: 70
End:



From paul1brian at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 08:19:13 2002
From: paul1brian at yahoo.com (Paul Brian)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:19:13 -0000
Subject: Python UK - April 4th and 5th
Message-ID: <1017148758.18693.0.nnrp-01.c1c3e11b@news.demon.co.uk>

Dear all,

This is another gentle reminder for those Python enthusiasts in the UK that
the
2nd Python UK Conference will take place on April the 4th and 5th near
Stratford upon Avon.

The two day conference is packed full of talks on cutting edge applications
of Python, with time to meet, socialise and even discuss code, life and love
with fellow Pythonistas. You even get access to the full ACCU conference,
attended by luminaries such as Bjarne Stroustrup.

You can register online at www.accuconference.co.uk , and further details
are available there too.  Please note that Python attendees should pay the
daily rate for the conference (?130 /day for ACCU members, ?155 else) for
the one or two days they choose to attend.

I hope to see you there :-)

Yours

Paul Brian





From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 28 21:41:14 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 18:41:14 -0800
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com> <a808fj$ooe50$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203281841.2bff43c5@posting.google.com>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message news:<a808fj$ooe50$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>...
> John Machin
> > Python *could* be made like that with the explict dict() constructor
> > ... something like:
> > 
> > freq = dict(default=0)
> > ...
> > freq[word] += 1
> 
> Or you could subclass with something like:
> 
> >>> class ddict(dict):
> ...     def __getitem__(self, ky):
> ...             return self.setdefault(ky, self.default)
> ...     def __init__(self, default=None):
> ...             self.default = default
> ...

You could indeed. However I'm interested in dicts with hundreds of
thousands of entries and millions of accesses. How much extra (a) time
and (b) memory would be taken up with this approach (subclassing in
Python), compared with the approach of of building it into the core?
My answers would be (a) lots (b) don't know, either minimal or lots.
Will do some experimentation later.


From kwg at renre-europe.com  Thu Mar 28 06:37:35 2002
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 11:37:35 +0000
Subject: vwait in Python?
Message-ID: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis>

Anybody know if there's an equivalent to TCL's vwait keyword in Python?

k.

-- 
Beware the fury of a patient man
                   - John Dryden




From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar  1 16:25:37 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:25:37 -0800
Subject: mult-indexed xrange?
References: <slrna7vqm8.13q.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a5orrg$8vdck$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a5orur$93uou$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

<pasted the wrong code>

for (x,y, z) in [(i,j, k) for i in range(2) for j in range(3) for k in
range(2) ]:
    print x,y, z


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com



From purplebo1212 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 23:06:06 2002
From: purplebo1212 at yahoo.com (purplebo1212)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:06:06 -0000
Subject: CGI, etc.
Message-ID: <a7eaje+57tl@eGroups.com>

Hi! I'm new to Python and was looking at writing an CGI script that 
would execute a program. Any pointers?
thanx





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 02:03:17 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 07:03:17 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <mailman.1015700776.13249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6f0fl$u8n$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:31 -0600, "Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:

>Qiang.JL wrote:
>> I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
>> stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two 
>> languages to improve my language view. There are two languages are on
>> the list: python and C++
>
>Learn C first.
>
I'd say if you don't know C, C++, or Python, then start with Python.
Then C++, then C. In that order, you won't have to unlearn patterns
of design you absorb solving problems with C.

If you start with C, you will get used to a procedural way of looking
at problems, and when you get to C++ you will be tempted to see it
as just C with extra features. You'll have to dislodge yourself from C
habits of thinking in order to "think objects" in C++. Coming from
Python you shouldn't have that problem (unless you've carried bad baggage
into Python from something else ;-)

If you start with Python, you will have a pleasant experience, and if
you learn to use classes effectively, you will then more readily see
the object-oriented aspects of C++ that really differentiate it from C,
and lets you design in ways that aren't practical or fun in C.

>> do i need to learn C/C++ to be a good programmer?
>
>You can be a good Java programmer without knowing C.
>You can be a good Python programmer without knowing C.
>But every good *all-around* programmer I've met knows C.
>
No argument. Also, you will find C for more processors
than any other language, which is important for embedded
and to-be-portable work (like CPython itself), if not so
much for app-level work.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bkc at Murkworks.com  Thu Mar 14 11:00:38 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:00:38 -0500
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015957103.25893.python-list@python.org> <3C8E7E90.6000608@skippinet.com.au> <WfTj8.2400$523.206744@ozemail.com.au> <3C907711.4030004@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3c90ca29$1_2@news.newsgroups.com>

"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3C907711.4030004 at skippinet.com.au...

> But if I combine this with the fact that new .NET beta releases often
> breaks the Python compiler but I have only received 2 complaints in a
> year, I concluded that interest is not yet high :)
>
> Mark.
>

And .NET is expensive to actually deploy, and we're all cheap.





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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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From zlu at extremenetworks.com  Wed Mar 13 19:43:24 2002
From: zlu at extremenetworks.com (Zihong Lu)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:43:24 -0800
Subject: is time.sleep a thread safe function?
References: <c775a687.0203121547.396ba8a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c775a687.0203131643.564e15c6@posting.google.com>

Thanks for those of you replied.  While I could not 100% exclude this
possibility, I did find out that our problem is related to the
threading module's t.join() function.

-Zihong


From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 05:51:00 2002
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:51 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015637896.15733.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20020309105159.60829B@gbreed.compulink.co.uk>

Tim Legant wrote:

> Out of curiosity I ran a couple of quick greps over the TMDA source.
> TMDA doesn't really fall into either of your "alternative" categories;
> it's small, but definitely not throwaway and it's an application, not
> a core library.  It's a mail processor to eliminate SPAM.  However,
> it's pure Python; there's no integration with C or Java.

How small is small?  I have a script at 
<http://www.microtonal.co.uk/temper.py> with around 1490 lines (including 
comments and blank lines) and 35 uses of range, some probably evil, most 
for for loops.  Two warty examples

  for n in range(1,n+1,2):

and

      for element in range(firstIndex, maxBasis+1):

where the +1 is used for inclusive boundaries.  7 straight 
range(len(..))s.

> The results were that I found 52 or 53 'for' loops (scanned the
> results of the grep by eye, since the word 'for' appears in comments
> as well) and exactly no uses of [x]range at all.

I have 107 instances of the word "for", which may include comments.

> So either Jason and I are significantly better than you and your team
> at expressing ourselves naturally in Python <wink> or it's the need to
> interface with Java that's forcing you to use integer indices all the
> time.  I'm betting big money on the latter.

Well, I've stuck my head above the parapet.  Have a look at the code, and 
see if I'm expressing myself badly.  It doesn't integrate with C, Java or 
COM but does do a lot of work with integers.  That's not something Python 
excels at, but it's such a good language generally that it's still worth 
using outside its niche.

I still don't see a need for language changes, but I can see that people 
doing heavier number theory than me would.


                   Graham



From ajeru at vknn.org  Mon Mar  4 00:14:22 2002
From: ajeru at vknn.org (Alexander Jerusalem)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 21:14:22 -0800
Subject: mx odbc result strings with special characters?
References: <24c39b2c.0203021850.7679418c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015125072.16815.python-list@python.org> <24c39b2c.0203031100.33d57b3d@posting.google.com> <TSug8.22747$n4.4298824@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <24c39b2c.0203032114.3df9e523@posting.google.com>

Hmm, ok, can you tell me how I can convert such a string back to the
ISO8859-1 character set so that I can write it to a text file?

The strange thing is, that when I read umlauts from a textfile and
print them to standard out, they remain intact. Only when they come
from the database driver are they converted to this hex
representation.

Alexander

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<TSug8.22747$n4.4298824 at newsc.telia.net>...
> Alexander Jerusalem wrote:
> 
> > Ok, thanks for your reply. Here's my output:
> >
> > >>> import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc
> > >>> con = odbc.connect("se", "scienceexile", "x")
> > >>> c = con.cursor()
> > >>> c.execute("select * from country")
> > >>> print c.fetchone()
>  ('aa1', '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn', None, None)
> > >>> c.close()
> > >>> con.close()
> >
> > And it's the same when I write the resultset to a file, so I don't
> > believe that it's just a display problem.
> 
> on the other hand:
> 
> >>> print '\xd6sterreich-Ungarn'
> ?sterreich-Ungarn
> 
> more info here:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html
> 
>     "The interpreter prints the result of string operations in the
>     same way as they are typed for input: inside quotes, and
>     with quotes and other funny characters escaped by back-
>     slashes, to show the precise value"
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/strings.html
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/exprstmts.html
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/print.html
>     (etc)
> 
> </F>
> 
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->


From shomon at softhome.net  Thu Mar 28 06:12:09 2002
From: shomon at softhome.net (skoria)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:09 -0000
Subject: Extending/embedding versus separation
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0203272120.6ef45a10@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7utq9+gvir@eGroups.com>

Hi

Thanks for your help. No, I didn't write the hash tables. I'm writing
a stats program based on webalizer. Webalizer and Analog were the
fastest and least memory hungry of all the programs I know of, and
webalizer is GPL so I was able to use it as a basis for my work, so I
get to make free software at work! The hash tables are already written
there. 

This program is intended to run on all the sites hosted by the company
I work for, and also on sites not hosted by it, hence the memory/disk
space concerns. 

The way I see it, the python side of things will be a python script
that imports the C parts, and can therefore process the logfiles and
turn them into hash tables. These are then fed back to the python
part, which processes them further, and turns them into graphs and html. 

The reason for this is I need to be able to quickly develop and expand
on the reports produced, so we can do complicated things like, say,
visitor paths or percentage increase graphs.

As I see it now, the only difference I get if extending python with my
adapted webalizer, is that I save writing a little output to file and
parsing it into python again.   

Is this going to be worthwhile?

Ale

--- In python-list at y..., sjmachin at l... (John Machin) wrote:
<snip!>
> 
> My take on a project like yours would be to write *everything* (that's
> not available off the shelf) in Python first, even parts that you
> think you know for sure are going to have to be implemented in C
> later. Those parts can be coded up in Python modules that can be
> replaced by C extensions if really needed. The infrastructure stuff
> like command-line-arg handling (or GUI input), file handling, etc is
> so much easier to bolt together in Python than in C that I would
> prefer extending Python (if necessary) to embedding Python in C.
> 
> Hash tables in C? Are you using a package like Cdt, or did you write
> your own? If you can process data into hash tables in C and then get
> the data into Python faster than you can process the data into
> dictionaries in Python, then please divulge your deep dark magic
> spells to Tim Peters the Python-dict-shaman.
> 
> You seem to be a bit concerned about memory usage. My advice is to
> write a prototype of your application in Python, bearing memory
> efficiency in mind, but not obsessively -- i.e. use the most
> appropriate data structures and don't distort your Python code into
> unreadability. Then you either have enough memory or you don't. Do
> some back-of-the-envelope calculations, like: a 256MB stick of memory
> costs how few hours of developer time? If you can't for whatever
> reason get more memory, then it's time to consider your next step. If
> your application has some large dictionaries that only have objects of
> type X as keys and type Y as values (where Y is a simple type like int
> or float) then it might be a good idea to take a copy of dictobject.c
> and make a specialised intdict (say) module that instead of managing
> (PyObject *) pointers, managed int values directly -- this would save
> you heaps (pardon the pun) of memory; see recent thread in this
> newsgroup about amount of memory taken up by Python objects.
> 
> For another (already implemented) variation on this memory-saving
> theme, google("c.l.py", "Machin intern memory").
> 
> HTH,
> John
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From gimbo at ftech.net  Thu Mar 21 05:24:04 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:24:04 +0000
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
In-Reply-To: <20020321085307.GB10214@software.plasmon>
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net> <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com> <20020321085307.GB10214@software.plasmon>
Message-ID: <20020321102404.GA1667@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:53:07AM +0000, Dave Swegen wrote:

> I'm basically after a single file where such values can be stored, and
> then used in various parts of the program without having to pass extra
> configuation variables around.

Well, this might be overkill depending on the size of your system, but
I quite often use the singleton design pattern for this purpose: I
have a module called Config which has a Config() function for
accessing the singleton.  Working demo:

-- begin Config.py

#!/usr/bin/env python

_configInstance = None

def Config():
    # This function, and _only_ this function, should be used to
    # access _configInstance.
    global _configInstance
    if _configInstance is None:
        _configInstance = _config()
    return _configInstance

class _config:

    def __init__(self):
        # Initialise from wherever, eg hard-coded, read from file on
        # disk (maybe using ConfigParser), checking command-line
        # parameters using getopt, etc.
        self.foobar = 'spam!'

-- end Config.py

-- begin client.py

#!/usr/bin/env python

import Config

def foo():
    config = Config.Config()
    print config.foobar

foo()

-- end client.py

As I say, this may be overkill depending on the size of your system,
but for largish systems it can be quite handy because it saves you
from, as you put it, "having to pass extra configuation variables
around".  I typically use it when I've got more than, say, three
modules which need to share config information.

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Mar 17 19:40:30 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:40:30 -0500
Subject: pyclbr _modules cache - why?
In-Reply-To: <3c9501d5.588674328@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFAOFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Culley Angus]
> Does anyone know the reasoning behind forcing use of the cache in the
> pyclbr module.

Same reason anyone ever uses a cache:  speed.

> I am implementing a simple ide where changes to modules are being
> updated in the gui... Alas I have had to hack the pyclbr module to
> stop it using cached data.

Consider calling pyclbr._modules.clear() instead, at such times your app
believes the cache may be stale.

> Surely if someone is implementing a classbrowser, it is a fair
> assumption that they may be updating the classes being browsed.

Sure.  I'm not sure pyclbr.py was written solely for you and your particular
app, though <wink>.




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 14 21:08:48 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:08:48 -0800
Subject: Python2.2 and expat
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.03.14.17.14.57.755556.13902@crystalcherry.com>; from cfox@crystalcherry.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 01:17:27AM +0000
References: <pan.2002.03.14.17.14.57.755556.13902@crystalcherry.com>
Message-ID: <20020314180848.A13193@ActiveState.com>

[Colin Fox wrote]
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I'm trying to build garnome, which requires Python2.2 + Python2.2-xml.
> I've got Python2.2 built, but for some reason it doesn't seem to build
> expat. And when I try to "import xml.parsers.expat" I get:
> 
> >>> import xml.parsers.expat
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/parsers/expat.py", line 4, in ?
>     from pyexpat import *
> ImportError: No module named pyexpat
> 
> Where is pyexpat supposed to come from? 

There is a section on building the pyexpat extension in
dist\src\PCbuild\readme.txt. Basically you need a separate build of expat in
the right place so that Python pyexpat build can find and use it.

Cheers,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From mapler at erinet.com  Fri Mar  1 21:06:10 2002
From: mapler at erinet.com (RMaple)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:06:10 -0500
Subject: Stop image shift on tkinter button press?
Message-ID: <3c8035a8$0$35568$4c5ecdc7@news.erinet.com>

Hello,
    Is there any way to suppress the annoying right/down shift a button 
image gets whenever the button is rendered with SUNKEN relief?

Thanks,
Ray



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 10:26:03 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:26:03 GMT
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr> <slrna9ou47.ajb.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <f81n8.216310$uv5.18614765@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:slrna9ou47.ajb.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no...
> Logic programming (or even something similar, with implicit
> backtracking etc.) would be very nice to have, IMO. The backtracking
> stuff itself ought to be easy to implement (efficiently, even) with
> generators.

There are some very interesting examples of using generators to do
backtracking in, I believe, test_generators.py in the distribution.
As I remember, both n-queens and knights tour examples are present.

Terry J. Reedy





From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 12:15:34 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:15:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ADO and Store Procedure
References: <a6l64f$57e$1@ih292.ea.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <a6ld3m$4bo$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

Joel Quinet wrote:

> There is a Unique Contsraint on that table.  If I try to insert an 
> existing
> value in that table with the following script,
> I receive no error ....
> I would like to receive an error and be able to deale with it.
> Moreover, My store procedure return 1 in case of problem.  How can I 
> rescue
> that ?
> How can I do that ?

Try returning a negative number, and you should get an exception 
triggered.  Otherwise, it's an ADO problem, and nothing in particular to 
do with Python.  Try microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.db

> rs, res = cmd.Execute()

You might find res has the right value, or you might have to initialize 
the recordset first.  cmd.Paramters.Refresh()?  I forget.  If you do 
something like cmd.Parameters("continent").Value = "Europe" that might do 
the trick as well, depending on what the parameter is called.  The return 
value might then be one of the parameters after you run the procedure.


                        Graham

           <http://www.microtonal.co.uk/>



From python at rcn.com  Sun Mar 31 20:05:26 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:05:26 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a88bq2$i3k$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
> I'm teaching Python for [Perl] Programmers at OSCON this July.  I've
> already decided to mention mxODBC, NumPy, and PIL, plus PythonPoint (aka
> ReportLab) gets a mention on my title page.  I'd like this group to vote
> on the most important extensions for me to add to this list.  Please vote
> for no more than three.

There's only one:  ActiveState's win32all -- the COM access to other
programs is worth millions.

Actually, make that two:  PyChecker -- because who's perfect all the time
(except for timbot and f/bot)

No, no, it's three:  Gadfly -- who doesn't need portable, full blown SQL
capabilities every now and again.

Darn, three is the limit.  I must not mention htmlgen or piddle no matter
how useful there are.  Yes, I definitely will play by the rules and not
mention them or even python mega-widgets.  Lips sealed, I won't say their
names even under intense questioning. That's all I have to say and you can't
make me name any more than three.  The psycho optimizer is right out.
Unmentionable and way, way off the list of three.


Raymond Hettinger, CPA





From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Mar  8 08:39:33 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:39:33 +0100
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1015554558.21762.python-list@python.org> <7x3czbag9q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3C88BF15.1010202@stroeder.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Steven D. Arnold" <stevena at neosynapse.net> writes:
> 
>>>>>from neo.istring import istring as i
>>>>>l = [1,2,3]
>>>>>i('first value is $l.0')
>>>>>
>>'first value is 1'
>>
> 
> It occurs to me, you could get rid of the parentheses by making the
> i object an instance of a class that overrides (say) division:
> 
>  >>> from neo.istring import istring as i
>  >>> l = [1,2,3]
>  >>> i/'first value is $l.0'
>  'first value is 1'

Seems this thread shifts to code obfuscation... ;-)

Ciao, Michael.



From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Mon Mar 11 13:51:01 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:51:01 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com> <3c8a9c23.152007063@news> <slrna8mj5r.tjv.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3c8b8112.27836128@news> <slrna8n2kd.1i8.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3c8cf137.2639944@news>

I understand and agree with what you  are saying. However, it is
possible in some languages (VB, for example) to return a numerical
result from a function with only two (or any other number) of decimal
places. Not a formatted string representation, but an actual numerical
value that can be used in further calculations. This value is, of
course, an approximation and has really been truncated rather than
"rounded."

Anyway, we are arguing now over how many angels can dance on the head
of a pin. I understand the problem and can work around it. This group
is a great resource. Thanks for all your help and time.

Bruce

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:31:51 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
wrote:

>In article <3c8b8112.27836128 at news>, brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
>
>> OK, that makes perfect sense. In my case, I was simply looking
>> for a predictable way to return a number with two decimal
>> places
>
>That's just not possible.  The "number" you're talking about
>doesn't _have_ decimal places.  It's a binary floating point
>number. It has "binary places".  In theory you could write a
>function that rounds to N binary places, but I don't know how
>useful that is going to be.
>
>In order to talk in a meaningful way about decimal places, you
>have to use a base-10 representation: BCD floating point or BCD
>fixed point.  Strings such as "123.456" are sort-of BCD
>floating point, and you can round to N decimal places when
>converting from binary floating point to "String/BCD FP":
>
>  f = 123.4567
>  s = "%0.2f" % f
>
>>>> f = 123.456
>>>> s = "%0.2f" % f
>>>> f
>123.456
>>>> s
>'123.46'
>
>"String/BCD FP" as I've termed it can represent numbers just
>fine, but since you can't do any mathematical operations on them
>it's of limited value.
>
>Since you're using binary floating point, the round() function
>is actually converting it's binary floating point input value
>to the closest value to X such that if X were converted to BCD
>in the future it will have the requested number of decimal
>places.  But, X may not be exactly representable. If you're
>using round(x,N) your probably just fooling yourself. 
>
>If you _really_ do want a number with N decimal places: 
>
>the topic of base-10 numbers for Python comes up occasionally,
>and I believe that there are BCD packages available.  If you
>really want to do your calculations in base 10, you might want
>to search the newsgroup archives for "BCD".
>
>-- 
>Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Please come home with
>                                  at               me... I have Tylenol!!
>                               visi.com            



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Mar 30 20:33:25 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:33:25 +1000
Subject: CGI/modpython ???
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203311024550.6606-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3CA66765.CC818762@optushome.com.au>

Michael Hall wrote:
> 
> Sorry folks, I just found the modpython docs, so I can RTFM. Still, I'd be
> interested in any comments about modpython versus Python CGI.
> 

There is a note on deploying Albatross apps with mod_python at
http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/albatross/app-popview5.html

In a private communication, Dave Cole, the principal developer of
Albatross, indicated
that he was able to get some impressive performance out of this type of
mod_python 
arrangement.

Tim C



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Mar  8 16:31:17 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:31:17 -0800
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <a6b91d$oau$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com> <a6b91d$oau$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20020308213117.GG4569@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Donn Cave (donn at u.washington.edu):
> Quoth Roy Smith <roy at panix.com>:
> | "Tim Peters" <tim at zope.com> wrote:
> | > Note that Guido wants to keep 2.3 free of new core language features.  You
> | > can deduce that from reading the essay, or-- like me --you can just believe
> | > it because it's true <wink>.  There's a huge backlog of good ideas for
> | > improving the internals and libraries, and I wouldn't be surprised to see
> | > the focus remain there for 2.4 too.
> |
> | Not touching the core language is a Good Thing.    It's really tough to 
> | convince people that python is a viable tool when it's a moving target.  
> |
> | It's been somewhat of an uphill battle to get my development group to 
> | accept the fact that I write tools for the whole group's use in python.  
> | Having the core language change from version to version just makes it 
> | worse, as we discover imcompatabilities between whatever version I'm using 
> | to develop on and whateve they're running on their boxes.  Telling people, 
> | "Oh, you need to upgrade to version X" gets old pretty fast.  As the saying 
> | goes, "if you're explaining, you've already lost."
> 
> I have proposed before that those of us who are into having
> a viable tool instead of a moving target, should just pick one
> and stick with it.  2.1.1, for example.  Of course you and I
> can do that, solving the problems with our respective groups -
> but putting us in kind of a backwater.  If we sort of collectively
> agree on 2.1.1 (or whatever) for that role, though, that backwater
> could get pretty lively.

I agree with the sentiment expressed in these posts. I'm not sure if
the proposed solution is the best one. On the other hand, I know that
I would feel more comfortable pushing for adoption of a given version
if I knew that six months from now, I wouldn't hafta start the whole
push all over again because some new feature made everything uncertain
again.

I think a lot of people and projects froze on 1.5.2, because it was
the last 1.* series release, but advice in this newsgroup tends to
suggest this is a very bad idea; bugfixes haven't been pushed back
into the 1.5 series, and there's no active maintenance.

I think my fear about picking a version and sticking with it is that
the same thing would happen, again, and trying to catch the moving
target would be even harder than trying to keep up with it.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts        <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments 
when he was merely stupid."        --Heinrich Heine



From thomas at weholt.org  Sun Mar 17 14:52:41 2002
From: thomas at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:52:41 GMT
Subject: How-to : Running profile from inside an class on the class' own methods ??
Message-ID: <du6l8.11717$TU3.309359@news4.ulv.nextra.no>

Hi,

I want to profile a method inside a class from another method inside the
same class. Example code below :

>>> class A:
...  def __init__(self):
...   self.var1 = 'var1'
...  def go(self):
...   self.var1 = 'go1'
...  def profile(self):
...   import profile
...   profile.run('self.go()')
...
>>> a = A()
>>> a.profile()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 8, in profile
  File "E:\Python21\lib\profile.py", line 71, in run
    prof = prof.run(statement)
  File "E:\Python21\lib\profile.py", line 356, in run
    return self.runctx(cmd, dict, dict)
  File "E:\Python21\lib\profile.py", line 362, in runctx
    exec cmd in globals, locals
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'self' is not defined
>>>

How can I profile the go-method inside the A-class from inside the A-class
?? Any hints?

Thomas




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar 21 07:03:22 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 12:03:22 GMT
Subject: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl for performance?
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7ci6a$2fqd$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list at python.org>, Nick Arnett wrote:

> Anybody have any experience generating word frequencies from short documents
> with Python and Perl?  Given a choice between the two, I'm wondering what
> will be faster.  And a related question... any idea if there will be a
> significant performance hit (or advantage?) from storing the data in MySQL
> v. my own file-based data structures?

> I'll be processing a fairly large number of short (1-6K or so) documents at
> a time, so I'll be able to batch up things quite a bit.  I'm thinking that
> the database might help me avoid loading up a lot of useless data.  Since
> word frequencies follow a Zipf distribution, I'm guessing that I can spot
> unusual words (my goal here) by loading up the top 80 percent or so of words
> in the database (by occurrences) and focusing on the words that are in the
> docs but not in the set retrieved from the database.

> Thanks for any thoughts on this and pointers to helpful examples or modules.

> Nick Arnett

 I don't know what you're really trying to do, but I decided to 
 code up a quickie "word counter" for the hell of it.

 I started with one that would simply count "words" (white space 
 separated sequences of letters, hyphens and apostrophes).  I then
 decided to also denote which of them were "known" words and keep
 a count of those as well.

 So, here's my very own version (in about 80 lines):


#!/usr/bin/env python2.2
import sys, string

class Wordcount:
	"""Keep a count of all unique "words" in text
	   Maintain a dictionary or words, each with a 
	   count of the number of occurences, 
	   Add arbitrary text to it, dump the dictionary on demand """
	# for words like o'clock and O'Holloran and fiddle-faddle
	# what should we do about contractions?
	# ditto possessive forms?
	tr = string.maketrans('','')
	rm = string.punctuation + string.digits
	rm = string.translate(rm, tr, "'-")  
		# Don't remove apostrophes and hypens from "words"
	knownWords = {}
	knownWordsRead = 0
	
	def __init__(self):
		self.words = {}
		self.count = 0	# total words processed
		self.nword = 0	# number of words in our instance dictionary
		self.known = 0 	# number of our words found in the class dict.
		# Each instance gets its own word list and total count
		if not Wordcount.knownWordsRead:
			# We'll try to create the "known words" dictionary
			# But we only do that on first instantiation 
			# since all instances share this one dictionary
			try:
				Wordcount.knownWordsRead = 1
				wlist = open('/usr/share/dict/words','r')
				for i in wlist:
					i = i.lower().strip()
					if not i in Wordcount.knownWords:
						Wordcount.knownWords[i] = 0
			except: pass
			# but we won't try very hard
				# print "debug: ", word 
	def add (self,text):
		for each in text.split():
			word = string.translate(each, Wordcount.tr, Wordcount.rm).lower()
			word = word.strip()
			while word.endswith("'"):   word = word[:-1] # strip quotes
			while word.startswith("'"): word = word[1:]  #
			if word.startswith('-'): continue 
			if word.endswith('-'): continue 
			if word.endswith("n't"): word = word[:-3] # can't include these
			if word.endswith("'ll"): word = word[:-3] # or you'll wonder
			if word.endswith("'s"):  word = word[:-2] # who's
			if word == '-' or word == "'" or len(word) < 1 : continue 
			self.count += 1
			if not word in self.words:
				self.words[word] = 1
				self.nword += 1
			else:
				self.words[word] += 1
			if word in Wordcount.knownWords: self.known += 1
	def dump (self):
		self.items = [ (y,x) for x,y in self.words.items() ] 
		self.items.sort()
		self.items.reverse()
		return self.items
			
		
if __name__ == '__main__':
	wcount = Wordcount()
	for i in sys.argv[1:]:
		file = open(i,"r")
		for line in file:
			wcount.add(line)
			# handle hyphenation?
			## poss. by cutting last word IFF ends in hyphen
			## and prepending to next line.
	print wcount.count, wcount.known, wcount.nword, \
		wcount.known/float(wcount.count), wcount.nword/float(wcount.known)
	for count, word in wcount.dump():
		if count > 1:		# Skip "unique" words
			if word in Wordcount.knownWords: word += "*"
			print "%7d %s" % (count, word)
	print wcount.count, wcount.known, wcount.nword, \
		wcount.known/float(wcount.count), wcount.nword/float(wcount.known)


 It's a bit crude, particularly in handling the apostrophes (vs 
 single quotes) and hyphens/dashes.  However, it seems to work
 okay.  I made NO effort to optimize it.  (I'd at least use 
 for i in file.readlines(): rather than iterating over each one
 individually, if I was concerned about speed).

 I tested by running the following commands:

 	for i in /bin/* /usr/bin/*; do 
		bname=$(basename $i); man $bname | col -b > /tmp/$bname.man
		done

	time ./wordcount.py /tmp/*.man | hea speed.

	Here's the output from that:

1602048 1361723 36978 0.849988889222 0.0271553025101
 117960 the*
  41673 to*
  36275 is*
  34975 a
  32191 of*
  27045 and*
  22881 in*
  20336 for*
  17571 be*
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./wordcount.py", line 81, in ?
    print "%7d %s" % (count, word)
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

real    1m48.212s
user    1m47.950s
sys     0m0.250s
$ ls /tmp/*.man | ./wc.py 
   1761    1761   31804 
$ du /tmp/*.man 
....
15836   total
$ find /tmp/*.man -printf "%s\n" \
	| awk '{n++; t+=$1}; END { print t/n ; }'
7104.33

 ... so it handled over 1700 medium size files (average 6K each,
 about 14Mb total) in less than two minutes.  Of the words I 
 counted it looks like about 84% of them were "known" words from
 /usr/share/dict/words; and it looks like I found about 2% of the
 known words.  (In other words, the Linux man pages only use about
 2% of the English vocabulary).  I doubt the top ten words from my
 list will surprise anyone: the, to, is, a, of, and, in ...

 I don't have the urge to write a version in Perl.  Not tonight
 anyway.

 Of course this script is free for any use you can think of.



From return at trafficmagnet.net  Fri Mar 29 09:52:38 2002
From: return at trafficmagnet.net (Christine Hall)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:52:38 +0800 (CST)
Subject: http://news.linuxprogramming.com
Message-ID: <47CR1000037431@emaserver.trafficmagnet.net>

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From mwh at python.org  Mon Mar 18 16:35:59 2002
From: mwh at python.org (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:35:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181712420.8629-100000@starship.python.net>

We've released a release candidate for the next bugfix release of Python, 
2.2.1.

Get the scoop (and the files) here:

    http://www.python.org/2.2.1/

In order to make 2.2.1 a solid release, please help by

+ Building the release, and running the test suite on your platform.
+ Building your extension modules and applications against this
  release, and running *their* test suites.
+ Reporting any problems to the bug tracker at sf:

    http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

This being a bugfix release, there are no exciting new features -- we just
fixed a lot of bugs.  For a moderately complete list, please see:

    http://http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=80208

Depending on how many problems are found in this release, 2.2.1 final or a
second release candidate will follow next week.

Extra note for keenies:

One of the bugs addressed in this release relates to the behaviour of
floating point numbers with respect to under- and over-flow.  This has
traditionally been an obscure platform-dependent mess.  To make sure that
this is still the case, I would ask those of you with access to the more
unusual platforms (i.e. not Linux/x86, Win32/x86) to run test_math in
verbose mode and *email me* the results, including details of platform and
OS tested.  Thanks.

Cheers,
The Python development team.






From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar  8 23:44:57 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 13:44:57 +0900
Subject: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015567574.22364.python-list@python.org> <roy-4971BC.09030608032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87henqe4dy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Roy" == Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

    Roy> It's really tough to convince people that python is a viable
    Roy> tool when it's a moving target.

Tell that to Bill Gates, hey!<wink>

Not to deny your point.  Rather to point out that if Bill can do it,
somehow, so can we.  And if we manage it better than the infamous
Word (whichever, 96?) transition, there's a lot of good will to be had.

    Roy> Having the core language change from version to version just
    Roy> makes it worse, as we discover imcompatabilities between
    Roy> whatever version I'm using to develop on and whateve they're
    Roy> running on their boxes.

So you standardize locally.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 13:01:46 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:01:46 +0000
Subject: number of lines in a file
References: <b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465@weber.videotron.net> <a81ufa$p2r32$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaa9b09.i04.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:36:14 -0800, Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>Joseph Youssef
>> hello, I am nwe to Python and I'm trying to write this 
>> script but I need it to check how many lines is in 
>> the file and I don't know how so I'm hoping someone 
>> could tell me.
>
>
>len(open('/path/and/filename').readlines())

Alternatively:

os.system("wc -l %s" % filename)


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Wed Mar  6 14:49:47 2002
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:49:47 -0800
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
References: <mailman.1015271467.3303.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C8672DB.28AD17B5@noaa.gov>

Steven Majewski wrote:

> I don't know of any reason the spec couldn't be implemented on unix,
> but I also don't know if any implementation. ( And without commercial
> apps that use it like Photoshop, there's probably not much demand. )

This looks like a good place to start looking:

http://www.twain.org/docs/twain_20_unix.htm

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Mar 28 15:52:34 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 21:52:34 +0100
Subject: Pippy
References: <20020328153333.69176.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1017333598.12973.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns91DFDEB1A98FAcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Jeffery D. Collins" <jcollins at boulder.net> wrote in 
news:mailman.1017333598.12973.python-list at python.org:
> I have recieved patches that I plan to integrate into Pippy, but 
> wanted  to wait until my sourceforge project was up and running.  
> However, it's  been approximately a month since I submitted the 
> application and still  haven't heard a word, even after inquiring a 
> week ago (or so).

i have two projects there: pyserial.sf.net and mspgcc.sf.net and
both got approved within two days or less.
are you sure that the regitartion worked? maybe the request was 
inclomplete due to broken connections or so.

chris

> Perhaps  I should look to host the project 
> elsewhere.  Can anyone suggest an alternative with similar 
> capabilities?


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From frederic.giacometti at arakne.com  Sun Mar  3 23:29:24 2002
From: frederic.giacometti at arakne.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:29:24 -0800
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org>
	        <KyEd8.66437$dG.27580630@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>
	        <987e7uoo5v87fsjruq0ug6bff0vha5ear0@4ax.com>
	        <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>
	        <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com>
	        <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <15490.51249.422151.234776@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3C82F824.5EEE9310@arakne.com>


Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Frederic> Just reverse the paradigm: have the python VM run in a single
>     Frederic> thread, using stackless microthreads for python
>     Frederic> multithreading, and run the C calls in a pool of threads.
>     Frederic> This way: no lock is needed, since only one thread runs the
>     Frederic> VM, with the help of microthreads, and C calls run in other
>     Frederic> threads.
>
> I don't think this will work without a lot of effort.  There is code that is
> not strictly speaking part of the virtual machine that assumes the presence
> of the global interpreter lock.

It can perfectly cohabitate with the current thread implementation; there is no
incompatibility.

An implementation would begin with defining a new CFunction flag (the 3rd field
of the CFunction data structure.
This flag would have the PVM instead call a function that would:
  - remove the microthread from the queue of active microthreads
  - pick an OS thread from the thread pool, place the CFuntion and its args in
its exec queue, and return to the PVM

Upon return of the CFunction, the OSThread would put back the thread on the
queue of active threads of the PVM, along with its result object, "et le tour
est joue'".

The C programmation of this new type of CFunction would be a little bit
different:
1) on one hand, no global interpreter lock to release :))
2) on another hand, by default, nothing should be done that modifies the
reference count of PyObjects referenced in other OS threads (note: the OS thread
can however create plain new Python objects); but this is actually no different
that current Python C programming after releasing the Python lock.

Helper functions/macros could provided to circumvent 2):
  - either recourse to the global Python lock (nothing to invent/implement,
here)
  - create a function that create a microthread that will have the PVM
increment/decrement the count(s) (and maybe to something else too), place it on
the PVM queue, and wait synchronously until it returns.

There is a third venue too: Add a field to the PyObject structure that describes
'OS Thread ownership' (the 0 value would certainly refer to the master PVM).
Then:
  - Rule: OS threads can only modified reference count of objects they own
  - Helpers: provide functions that gives the possibility to an OS thread to ask
the thread that owns the object(s), to transfer ownership. Such functions would
be used whenever local ownership is not certain (there's no point in testing
ownership on each reference counting operation) ....

Technically, this addition to the PyObject structure would open the door to:
   - multiple PVM on multiprocessing machines
   - remote Python object transparency

Such a schema would require some elaboration, like any; but there's no wizardry
here, and it could be done with a minimal imprint on the current PVM code, too.

But:
  - microthreads are a preamble
  - stackless is a preamble to microthreads...

Frederic Giacometti, Arakne

>
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)




From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 17:37:18 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:37:18 +0100
Subject: uniq, was Re: PEP Parade
References: <mailman.1015595415.23258.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20020308173734.951$gl@news.newsreader.com>

"Roman Suzi"
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >Nothing new is necessary since 2.2 was released:
> >
> >    >>> mylist = [1,2,3,5,6,6,9,9,1,2,3,4]
> >    >>> mydict = dict(zip(mylist,mylist))
> >    >>> mydict
> >    {1: 1, 2: 2, 3: 3, 4: 4, 5: 5, 6: 6, 9: 9}
> >    >>> mydict.values()
> >    [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9]
>
> Wow. Then I am a bit underinformed. What uniq is for then?
> To cover lengthy:
>
> def uniq(x):
>   return dict(map(None, x, [None])).keys()
>
> ?
>

keys in a dictionary have to be inmutable objects. The list
we want to remove duplicates can contain other object type.
See Tim's recipe:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52560/index_txt

-Hernan




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Mar 15 17:18:12 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 17:18:12 -0500
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016168907.4720.python-list@python.org> <USnk8.25666$N7.5384674@ruti.visi.com> <uk7sdzqem.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <_kqk8.25881$N7.5410299@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <ubsdpzd97.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> TCP/IP networking that was pasted on as an afterthought, and
> that's when select came into the picture.

Well, the IP stack came later but with the current WinSock2 there's a
pretty flexible architecture for protocols and service providers which
isn't too bad, and IP is just one of the "providers".  So multiple
network stacks (not just IP) can be treated the same.

> Are TCP/IP connection native kernel objects?

In a literal sense I'd have to say no - you don't get a kernel handle
to them (at least at the application level).  I'm sure they have some
internal handles they managed, but the socket itself is a higher level
abstraction managed by the winsock library.

However, Win32's winsock does provide clean ways to tie them to
signaling kernel objects (events) which let's them play equally (be
processed simultaneously) with other kernel objects to signal
completion of operations.  And that's pretty much the same way that
asynchronous file I/O works, providing an event object for completion.
So in practical terms, they behave just as other resources do for I/O
when using the Win32 functions.

Of course, to make this work you need to use the Win32 aware
(Microsoft extensions) version of the socket functions, which of
course are non-portable.  But that would let you incorporate socket
selections as well as waiting for file, pipe, mailslot, etc... or any
other I/O or events simultaneously.  It's not the same as the Unix use
of 'select' but that gets to the question of the basic underlying
model differences between Unix v. Win32 as opposed to better or worse.

In some ways for most uses I find the Unix approach more streamlined,
but there are times when the Win32 approach is more flexible.  For
example, Unix select can only wait on file handles for
read/write/exception.  Under Win32 you typically set up asychronous
activities and then wait on a collection of event objects (or other
native objects that can signal themselves).  You can easily add in
your own event objects into the mix for any arbitrary signaling.

In more concrete terms (and more to the context of this thread), it
provides perhaps a cleaner approach to interrupting the blocked
select.  With select you might try to forceably interrupt the select
by closing the socket, or sending fake data to another (or the same)
socket, or having a fairly quick timeout and check for a flag.  But
all of those approaches are really ways to try to work around the fact
that select only works on I/O operations to file handles.  With Win32
native functions, I'd just define an extra event object, and wait on
that event object along with the event objects related to the sockets.
To shut it down, just signal the special event object.

It's interesting that all of these approaches do have one thing in
common - they tend not to be portable.  I think it basically shows
that the pure sockets-based select() model, which is really what
different systems have standardized on as portable, just doesn't
address this aspect of things well, thus needs along these lines tend
to devolve into platform-specific solutions.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Mar 25 19:39:25 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:39:25 GMT
Subject: pythonwin and raw_input
References: <DMNn8.12699$n8.8704@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9FC358.2080608@skippinet.com.au>

logistix wrote:
> I could've swore I posted this yesterday, so please have mercy on my soul if
> my news server is just messed up.
> 
> Does anyone know how to access the builtin raw_input function in pythonwin?
> Pyhtonwin overrides it with a dialog box.  This doesn't work out too well
> with the following:
> 
> import code
> code.interact()

The short answer is "no" :(  It could be done by someone suitably 
motivated though :)

It is quite tricky due to the event processing requirements of the GUI. 
  Pythonwin's interact.py module uses the code module to implement the 
interactive window, and it jumps through nasty hoops to make it work.

Mark.



From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar  6 17:43:10 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:43:10 +1100
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20020306143604.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <XFMail.20020306143604.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <200203062243.WAA15402@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:36, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> On 06-Mar-2002 Steve Lamb wrote:
> > On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:21:35 -0800 (PST), Sean 'Shaleh' Perry
> >
> > <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
> >> help release more python modules so perl mongers will quite wagging CPAN
> >> in front of our faces.
> >
> >     Quality over Quantity.  :)
>
> not to disagree, however there are FAR more interesting perl modules out
> there than python ones.

Excellent!

Skip's marvellous post about how people could contribute to python's growth 
has already reduced itself to a slanging match that _completelty_ misses the 
point he was trying to make! What was that, about 10 minutes? Wow.

Sorry Skip, I know you meant well.


    Richard



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 13:46:03 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:46:03 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:a67ehl$uhi$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> How does it seem if you go along the steps I took?:
>
>  1. You have an arbitrary sequence of characters that are to be
>  the value of a string.
>  2. The sequence may contain both ''' and """ and may even end
>  with \ and it must be unchanged.
>  3. (2) Means you need a different delimiter than " or ' or """ or
'''.

Since (3) does not follow from (2), it seems like this proposal is
unnecessary.  Strings read from a file (this includes raw_input() from
users) already meet desiderata 1 and 2.

>>> s=raw_input('Hi: ')
Hi: Python delimiters include ', ", ''', """, and \
>>> print s
Python delimiters include ', ", ''', """, and \

 In the extremely rare case in which one really *needs* all 4 string
delimiters within a single string and the string *must* get its value
from a programmer-writter string literal rather than a file, one can
use octal escapes (or \\ for \).

>>> print """Python's string delimiters are ', ", ''', and
\042\042\042."""
Python's string delimiters are ', ", ''', and """.
>>> print '''Python's string delimiters are ', ", \047\047\047, and
""".'''
Python's string delimiters are ', ", ''', and """.

Terry J. Reedy









From =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=  Fri Mar 29 11:39:39 2002
From: =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?= (=?iso-8859-5?Q?=B4=D0=DC=F8=D0=DD_=B3=2E?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:39:39 +0100
Subject: multicast test program
References: <mailman.1017391904.2446.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ca498c2$1@news.mt.net.mk>

> Is there any python code which test multicast? I want
> to send and receive multicast packet by python code. Any
> docs or links about this?

Interesting subject. 
A little of google-searching revealed this:

	http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt/lists/fgfs/archive-200102/msg00599.html

Very interesting...
There's no reason import regsub in that.

-- 
??????

              To boldly go where I surely don't belong.



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar 19 06:31:15 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:31:15 -0800
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181712420.8629-100000@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <3C972183.3050804@bigfoot.de>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> I would ask those of you with access to the more
> unusual platforms (i.e. not Linux/x86, Win32/x86) to run test_math in
> verbose mode

How would I do that?

Gerhard




From newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de  Sun Mar 17 16:39:23 2002
From: newsgroups at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:39:23 +0100
Subject: Zope Question
References: <pan.2002.03.15.18.24.35.492395.26562@crystalcherry.com>
Message-ID: <3C950D0B.60602@thomas-guettler.de>

Colin Fox wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
> 
> I realize that this isn't the best place to post Zope questions, but hey,
> it's written in python...:)
> 
> Anyway, I'm trying to create a form for editing database entries. Part of
> the form includes a pair of radio buttons for gender. I want to seed this
> from with values from the database.
> 
> The problem is, radio buttons have a special attribute called 'checked'
> to indicate when they are selected. The Zope page templates allow me to
> alter things of the form ' value="xxx" ', but apparently not where the
> keyword itself is the value. If there was something like
> 'state="CHECKED"', it would be easy. But I can't figure out how to insert
> either CHECKED or nothing depending on the state of a variable.
> 

One solution would be to do it like this (I use pseudo-code since I
am new to page templates, and don't want to look up the syntax):

if checked==true
   <input type="radio" name="foo" checked="yes">
else
   <input type="radio" name="foo">

I know it is not the best solution since you have to type the line twice
but it should work.

  thomas




From marijn at sanity.dhs.org  Fri Mar  1 02:30:57 2002
From: marijn at sanity.dhs.org (marijn Vriens)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 23:30:57 -0800
Subject: import Random: NV_MAGICCONST deviates too much.
Message-ID: <29575ad6.0202282330.16226275@posting.google.com>

Hi all...

I have get a strange exception when importing random. 
I brought it down to:

Python 2.1.2 (#1, Jan 18 2002, 18:05:45) 
[GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import gnome.ui
>>> import random
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/random.py", line 93, in ?
    _verify('NV_MAGICCONST', 1.71552776992141)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/random.py", line 88, in _verify
    raise ValueError(
ValueError: computed value for NV_MAGICCONST deviates too much
(computed 2,82843, expected 1)
>>> 

If I first import random and then gnome.ui I have no problems. my
distr is debian woody with the standard python packages (not
self-compiled) on an
AMD-K6 

Anybody know what's going on ?

Cheers,
    Marijn.

PS: Thanks to the #python crew for helping me out on this one!


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Mar  3 07:16:47 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:16:47 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: PEP 262 (database of installed Python packages) 
In-Reply-To: <3wgg8.685$Qo2.70120@news02.tsnz.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203031506330.28289-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Andy Elvey wrote:

>Hi all.

>problematic .....
>   Anyway - just thought I'd test the waters on this - is there anyone else
>out there who'd love to see a single "search database"?  ( Imagine - no more
>fiddling with this path, or that path , blah blah .... )  Thanks for your
>time, and for your comments !

It is an interestin idea to have a registry for Python modules. However,
PEP262 is so full with XXXs and question marks that it is more of
intention than recipe.

What to do for example, if I have 3 versions of Python in my
system? Will I have 3 INSTALLDBs or one shared between?

Why not just use RPM to keep track of all files? RPM is not just for Linux
RedHat,SuSe,Mandrake, but I recall some people use it for other systems.

So, the intention of PEP 262 is to make RPM-like thingie for Python
platform. On RPM-based system it is not needed. All the fucntionality is
already present in rpm program.

So, probably better idea is to enable Distutils use system-specific
solutions. RPM on RedHat, DEB on Debian, whatever-it-is-(if-is) on MS
Windows, etc.

However, I am both hands pro CPAN for Python.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, March 03, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Why build a wall round a cemetery when no-one wants to get in?" _/




From robinjim at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 07:46:13 2002
From: robinjim at earthlink.net (robin and jim)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:46:13 GMT
Subject: implementing a constant singleton
Message-ID: <p4_n8.1650$Ya2.72647@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Is this the way to implement a constant singleton class using Python 2.2
"new-style" classes?

class Message(str):

   def __new__(this_class, specification):
      print 'Message.__new__ applied by %s' % str(this_class)
      return str.__new__(this_class, specification)

   def __init__(self, specification):
      print 'Message.__init__ applied by %s' % str(self)
      self.subject = specification[0]
      self.body = specification[1:]

   # additional Message class methods go here


class Constant_Singleton_Message(Message):

   def __new__(this_class):
      it = this_class.__dict__.get('__it__')
      if it is not None:
          return it
      this_class.__it__ = it = Message.__new__(this_class,
this_class.set_string())
      return it

##   def init(self):
##      Message.__init__(self, self.set_string())

   def __init__(self):
      Message.__init__(self, self.set_string())

   def set_string():
      return "I'm a constant singleton"

   set_string = staticmethod(set_string)

## end implementation--------------------------


I'm troubled by the fact that Message.__init__ is applied each time
Constant_Singleton_Message is "created", but I see no way to avoid it.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Mar  3 00:07:35 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 05:07:35 GMT
Subject: Deitel and Deitel Book...
References: <3C7D8DCA.119D52EC@earthlink.net> <u7t7793khgum56@corp.supernews.com> <899f842.0203010812.6151d817@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5sb2n$f2j$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <899f842.0203010812.6151d817 at posting.google.com>, 
  Anthony_Barker wrote:
>"DeepBleu" <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote in message 
>> Deitel and Deitel book on Python?  I personally would not touch it...
 ...
>> You want books on Python:  Buy Beazley, Lundh, Holden, Hammond, Greyson
>> etc....
>> Leave Deitel alone!
>> DeepBleu

> I agree with you to a point. They don't seem passionate about
 ...
> presentations are excellent, as is his dead tree book. Eckel's, "The
> thinking in Python", is very good. 
 ...
 
 I thought Eckel's TiPy and his "Thinking in Patterns (with Python)"
 had been merged.  I didn't realize that either of them had been 
 released in dead tree editions.  (I've read parts of them online
 at his web site)

	Bruce Eckel's MindView, Inc: Thinking in Patterns with Java
	http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIPatterns/

	Bruce Eckel's MindView, Inc: Thinking in Python
	http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIPython

 (Actually it seems, if I believe his web pages, that these are still
 developmental versions, and have not yet been set to print).

> I would love to see books on Algorithms with Python (makes a perfect
> fit), and more advanced topics such as threads and extending python.

 I would love to see a good book on "patterns" in Python.  I'd like
 it to be a simple booklet listing each of the GoF patterns, with a
 couple of examples of each.  It would be fine if it also covered some
 additional patterns or some controversies or alternatives to the 
 classic GoF patterns (like the Alex Martelli's Borg vs. the GoF Singleton).
 
 Don't even ask for my opinion on Thomas W. Christopher's 
 _Python_Programming_Patterns_ book (PTR/PH Prentice Hall, (c) 2002),
 it has almost nothing to do with OODP (one chapter with superficial
 coverage of 20 out of the GoF 23 patterns, and the example code is
 convoluted, opaque and mostly irrelevant to Patterns).  (As a saving 
 grace his chapters on threads and concurrency are somehwat better.

 I think my best bet so far is to study online at:

	Python Patterns
	http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/PythonPatterns

 ... and this seems to be the rule for Python.  The best material
 seems to be live and online.  However, I still need something to 
 take to the coffee shop or into the can with me (no I don't have a
 computer in *there* yet; and I haven't set up sitescooper to fetch
 Python stuff to my Palm/Visor, yet).

 I've been enjoying Steve Holden's book, though it is pretty basic
 and a little slow in places.  I thought his approach to introducing
 OOP by starting with strawman procedural examples going through a
 "objects as data structures" phase and iteratively refactoring that 
 into an OO design with constructors and other methods was interesting,
 though a bit repetitive in the written form.  (It would make alot of 
 sense in a lecture format, though).  I also picked up Robert W. Bill's
 new Jython book from New Riders.  Based on that, Holden's work and
 Beazeley's _Python_Essential_Reference_ I'd say that New Riders is 
 kicking @$$ in the Python arena.

 Although I like most of the classic O'Reilly titles, I have to say that 
 I'm a little disappointed in Fredrik Lundh's _Python_Standard_Library_
 --- it's just too short and doesn't offer comparisons among related
 or similar modules.  For example the coverage of the curses module
 consists of one sentence of running prose and one 14-line code 
 example.  That code example doesn't mention the curses.wrapper()
 function, doesn't show his code in a try: finally: block (which could
 leave the terminal in an unusable state if any exception is thrown)
 and doesn't show or even mention ncurses color (which is a common
 source of confusion in this NG).  (Of course it might not be fair to
 pick on the curses coverage, which seems to be relegated and accursed
 in all Python documentation; but this is just one example).
 Meanwhile I thought both the Lutz books were tedious (though I haven't
 read the 2nd edition of Programming Python).

 Meanwhile the O'Reilly book on _Python_&_XML_ by Christopher A. Jones 
 and Fred L. Drake, is very good.
 


From donnal at donnal.net  Sun Mar  3 17:35:04 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 14:35:04 -0800
Subject: pydoc and packages
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0203031435.511bbf3c@posting.google.com>

I have separated my application code into three packages: Lib.core,
Lib.control, and Lib.model with four to twenty modules per package.

Using pydoc -w I am able to generate HTML documentation for one module
at a time, but is there a way to generate an integrated set of HTML
documents for all the modules in all three packages (and the packages
themselves) with one command?

Thanks


From ballabio at mac.com  Thu Mar  7 13:08:48 2002
From: ballabio at mac.com (Luigi Ballabio)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:08:48 +0000
Subject: SWIG and abstract base class
In-Reply-To: <a27c5cd4.0203070801.243cd087@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307180445.00a53530@mail.mac.com>

At 08:01 AM 3/7/02 -0800, Helmut Zeisel wrote:
>I want to use SWIG to create a Python module for
>a C++ class hierarchy using abstract base classes:

Helmut,
         I'm assuming that you're using a reasonably recent version of SWIG 
(let's say >= 1.3.9).

If you actually tell SWIG that Base is abstract (e.g., if you declare 
purely abstract methods as such, with the = 0 at the end) it should not try 
to instantiate it. If you don't want to expose the purely abstract methods 
or the above doesn't work in some way, you should be able to inhibit 
instantiation by declaring Base to SWIG as:

class Base {
   private:
     Base();
   public:
     // whatever
};

hope this helps,
                 Luigi




From roy at panix.com  Mon Mar 11 07:41:56 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:41:56 -0500
Subject: How to compute sunset and dawn times with python?
References: <22722a23.0203080841.3ed7166a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-B8A63F.07415611032002@news1.panix.com>

tist at subdimension.com (Tist Verdonck) wrote:

> Does anyone know how to compute sunset and dawn times with python?

For anything having to do with calculating astronomical data with a 
computer, the standard reference book is Jean Meeus's Astronomical 
Algorithms (http://www.willbell.com/math/mc1.htm).


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 19:57:26 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:57:26 GMT
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org> <ayQj8.73101$hO6.5843911@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <slrna8vr25.rbm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <drtv8uohb35i04vufqgsebtrsbbrbe83od@4ax.com>

>Question:  Which is better:  items(x) or x.items()?

Note the question in the PEP, but leave the decision to Guido.

C//



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Mar 28 15:15:31 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:15:31 -0800
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com> <37j6auohv35hg3kfol3m5hnrelvd4i4vdk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA379E3.5604D622@ccvcorp.com>


Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:

>
> Alternatively, capitalise Java-style: 'matchOn' or 'switchOn'

Ugh.  Please, no.  I wince every time I see that horrid capitalization
style.  If *any* letters are capitalized, the first letter *must* be,
also. (At least, in my mind... I realize that this is a matter of personal
taste, but it's one that I feel *very* strongly about.)  But since
currently, all Python keywords are all lower-case, then we should maintain
that tradition.  I think that if we're going to add a keyword for this,
that "switch" is a good choice.  It's familiar to C/C++ programmers (at
least), it's reasonably intuitive, and it avoids capitalization
monstrosities. ;)  It does risk breaking old code, of course, but then,
*any* keyword change does that.

I do prefer the re-use of "else" instead of adding "any", though. A lot.
:)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International






From ponderor at lycos.com  Tue Mar 26 14:42:33 2002
From: ponderor at lycos.com (Dean Goodmanson)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 13:42:33 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
Message-ID: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net>

QOTW:  "A feature in isolation is a feature doomed to misuse."  timbot

"The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code -- not
in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death."  Guido van Rossum


    Peter Hansen masterfully applies The Python Way of exception-handling
    and object orientation in a tidy little response on the os module.
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=6e7fa04735bf0b52

    Python plays a role in unraveling Balkan atrocities.
	http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51106,00.html
    Kris Zaragoza and others explain how to make your own use of MS SQL
    Server with Python.
	 http://groups.google.com/groups?th=efccf3faf8d7eb11
    
    Python-bz2 "provides a comprehensive interface for the bz2 compression
    library."
	http://python-bz2.sourceforge.net/ 

    
========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
	 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continued Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week, into July 2001.  Any volunteers to re-start this
    valuable series?
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
	http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Tenth International Python Conference 
        http://www.python10.org            

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Mar 15 13:19:33 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 18:19:33 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <15505.33265.747862.25428@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <a0510140db8b7d6d7feae@[12.232.110.43]> <15506.10262.578727.665781@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com> <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list@python.org> <ffqk8.25854$N7.5409309@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <a6tdvl$19mg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
| In article <mailman.1016212173.16075.python-list at python.org>, Rich Cook wrote:
...
|> So do I have to read the data byte by byte using read(1) and
|> examine each character to avoid blocking? Is there any way to
|> find out how much data is actually waiting for me in the file
|> object so I can read it in bigger increments, or must I call
|> select then read(1) for every byte?
|
| You don't have to read it 1 byte at a time. Just call
| f.read(1024) and it will give you however many bytes are
| available, up to the max of 1024.  You can use a max different
| than 1024 if you want.

I think you're making the problem worse here.

  import popen2
  t = popen2.Popen3('echo L1; sleep 2; echo L2; sleep 2; echo L3')
  print 'First read: ', repr(t.fromchild.read(1024))

  $ python /tmp/x
  First read:  'L1\nL2\nL3\n'

C I/O basically sucks for this application.  When you ask for 1024,
fread is bound to get that amount, just as it is if you ask for a
line via fgets ("readline".)  If you omit the amount, you're asking
for all the data, won't return until the socket's other end closes.
If you read byte by byte, you won't know when to stop, because select
doesn't look at stdio I/O buffers and after the first byte all the
existing data was probably read up from the device, so select won't
see anything there.

Rich, I thought Grant identified your real problem (calling select
wrong) in his first followup.  I added some comments relevant to
the above issues in other followups.  Did you miss all that stuff?

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Thu Mar 14 09:56:33 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:56:33 +0000
Subject: Tkinter BUG: memory loss for tag bindings in Canvas
References: <a6njm0$c8k$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <a6q9un$2j5$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi again all,

Considering my memory loss problem with tag bindings, I went a little 
deeper into the Tkinter module and found out what happened: whenever a 
binding is created, a new tcl command is created by the Tkinter/_tkinter 
modules. This command in fact just calls the Python function, but is 
required to do the binding at the tk level, which of course knowns nothing 
about Python. This is this command that cause the memory leak: when the 
graphical item is deleted or even when the binding is cancelled, the 
command is not destoyed in the tcl interpreter...

So I tried to explicitely delete the complete binding by doing something 
like:

----------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

## Create the canvas
c = Canvas(root)
c.pack()

## Create the item
tId = c.create_text(100, 100, text='spam')

## Create the binding
def foo(event): print 'bar'
c.tag_bind(tId, '<Button-1>', foo)

## Get the binding
f = c.tag_bind(tId, '<Button-1>')
## Print it for debugging purposes
print f
## Explicitely remove the binding
c.tag_unbind(tId, '<Button-1>', f)

root.mainloop()
---------------------------

This doesn't work, and here is the result:

if {"[136128196foo %# %b %f %h %k %s %t %w %x %y %A %E %K %N %W %T %X %Y 
%D]" == "break"} break
 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tkCanvasBindings2.py", line 16, in ?
    c.tag_unbind(tId, '<Button-1>', f)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1904, in 
tag_unbind
    self.deletecommand(funcid)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 297, in 
deletecommand
    self.tk.deletecommand(name)
TclError: can't delete Tcl command

The "if {...} ..." is the result of the print. If I understand correctly, 
the binding at the tk level is not made directly to the created command, 
but to this expression, allowing Python callbacks to stop executing the 
bindings by doing "return 'break'". But by doing so, the result of 
"c.tag_bind(tId, '<Button-1>'" is not the name of the created tcl command 
(which seems to be "136128196foo"), and so cannot be used in the tag_unbind 
method, which tries to delete the command, resulting in the traceback above.

To me, this sounds like a bug, doesn't it? Any maintainers of Tkinter 
around here?

TIA
 - eric -





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 09:22:44 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:22:44 -0600
Subject: socket.gethostbyname() AttributeError
In-Reply-To: <uPGl8.1121$MC5.110514@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <uPGl8.1121$MC5.110514@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <15511.18868.287275.971963@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    ralph> I assumed that for scoket.gethostbyname(host), I was to pass a
    ralph> host of the type "theodore.chipmunks.com" and that I would get
    ralph> back an IP address as a doted quad.  Obviously I am wrong about
    ralph> the form of the arguement I am to pass to the function, because I
    ralph> am getting an AttributeError message.

Probably a typo on your part.  Works for me:

    >>> import socket
    >>> socket.gethostbyname("www.yahoo.com")
    '64.58.76.222'

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Mar 12 23:56:56 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:56:56 -0500
Subject: Is there a good reason why we cannot (as of 2.1.1) deepcopy
 complex objects?
In-Reply-To: <e395b886.0203120834.3cc1eb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEPCODAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Carl Banks]
> Subject: Is there a good reason why we cannot (as of 2.1.1) deepcopy
> complex objects?

I doubt it.  Works fine in 2.2:

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import copy
>>> z = 1-1j
>>> copy.copy(z)
(1-1j)
>>> copy.deepcopy(z)
(1-1j)
>>>

The copy module got quite an overhaul for 2.2, and that likely fixed many
odd old bugs.

> Strangely, I've found no mention of this anywhere: the docs, the
> Python FAQ, or the Google archives.

The right place to look would have been the Python bug database on
SourceForge, but I didn't find a specific bug report there either.  That is
mildly strange.  It's not strange that the 2 people using complex numbers in
Python didn't add a FAQ entry, though <wink>.




From jbell at iinet.net.au  Wed Mar 27 03:14:53 2002
From: jbell at iinet.net.au (John Bell)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:14:53 +0800
Subject: Symbolic imports and manipulation of the namespace?
References: <mailman.1017180521.5865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA17F7D.9020907@iinet.net.au>


VanL wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I was recently solving a problem which required that the config file 
> (just a python file) lie outside of the pythonpath.  Is it possible to 
> do symbolic importation of a module?
> 
> For example, I had:
> 
> # cfgpath is passed in on the command line
> cfgpath = os.path.basename(cfgpath)
> sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
> import sc_cfg     #Hardcoded config module name!
> 
> 
> How do you do this:
> 
> # cfgpath is passed in on the command line
> cfgpath, cfgfile = os.path.split(cfgpath)
> sys.path.insert (0, cfgpath)
> import cfgfile     #Hardcoded config module name!
> 
> So that any file name (ending with .py, of course, but that's another 
> matter) could be the configfile?
> I tried the above, but I got an ImportError (no module named cfgfile)


Basically it depends what you want to do with the file.  If you simply 
want to execute it in-line (which given that it's a config file is most 
probably the case) then use execfile.  This by default executes the file 
within the namespace of the caller, so is somewhat like an include or 
import statement in other languages.  NOTE THE CAVEAT RE EXECUTION 
WITHIN A FUNCTION BODY.  Check the manual page re manipulation of the 
namespace.

If the file has classes you want to create or functions you want to call 
you should use __import__.  The idea is to put your file (say myfile.py) 
in your search path.  Then if you want to create an instance of myobject 
defined in myfile.py:

modname='myfile'
objname='myobject'
_module=__import__(name)
_class=getattr(_module,objname)
_object=_class(instantiation parameters)

where _object is the instance.  Function invocation works in a parallel 
fashion.  Once again, see the manual page re namespace manipulation.

John


> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Van
> 
> 



From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Tue Mar 19 05:24:42 2002
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:24:42 +0100
Subject: Gadfly mirrors?
References: <slrna95io5.1qs.matt@swordfish.havenrock.com> <slrna979jf.dp.usenet@fohnhab.minus1.de>
Message-ID: <a773d1$6i0$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Thanks for this valuable hint!
For all others outside, the exact link is:
ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian-archive/dists/slink/main/binary-i386/interpreter
s/

One prob left: How do you unpack a *.deb file ?

All the best,
Harald

"Konrad Anton" <usenet at minus1.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:slrna979jf.dp.usenet at fohnhab.minus1.de...
> matt at swordfish.havenrock.com <matt at swordfish.havenrock.com> schrieb:
> >Hi, folks--
> >
> >Does anyone know of an alternate download site for Gadfly? I have been
> >unable to reach www.chordate.com all evening.
>
> It is also in a Debian package called "gadfly" in section
> "interpreters", available from ftp.Debian.org mirrors.
>
> HTH
> Konrad.
>
> --
>  Konrad Anton <konrad at minus1.de> ; Web: www.minus1.de ; gpg: 0x22954D8A
>  Tel. +49-761-881-2122, Fax +49-721-151318943.  Alice:
> It's generally why?




From jessw at loop.com  Wed Mar  6 23:47:07 2002
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:47:07 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <3C86804B.21161.A65A21@localhost>

The reason I don't like PEP 276
	It is too broad.  The Rationale in PEP 276 assumes that the 
iterator for ints would only be used as a shorthand for the indexed 
list idiom; but in fact, making an iterator for ints allows many other 
possibliites, many of which(see below), are errors or confusing.  I 
don't disagree with trying to simplify the indexed list idiom, but not if 
the solution allows in such a lot of odd looking posiblities as shown 
below.

The ugly posibiliites:
for i in 5:
	print i*2,
#Would print: 8 6 4 2 0
#Why?  What posible sense would this make?
var=-2
for i in var:
	print i
#Would generate an error of some kind because var is negative.
#What a sneaky and hard to understand bug! The loop will not
#execute because some variable(which could be defined far away,
#and in some complicated fashion) is negitive.  Huh?  A more clear 
#example:
while var < 10:
    var=(var-2)*3
    for i in var:
        print i
#If var is defined as 0, 1 or 2 then  you get an error; else, it runs.  
#Huh?
#Or, look at this:
def foo(var):
    var=int(var)
    var=var*5
    var=var/3
    var+= 12.3
    for i in var*2:
        print i
#Will this generate an error?
#Yes, because on the line that begins var+=, var is changed into a 
#float, which will make the loop choke.  Is this something anyone is 
#likely to notice?

	I am sure that others can think of more unpleasent posibilities.  
The basic problem is that the proposal is simply too broad.

				Jesse Weinstein




From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar  6 09:18:16 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:18:16 +0000
Subject: Tkinter: can widgets automatically resize to fit parent?
Message-ID: <20020306141816.GC10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

Howdy,

Hopefully a quickie, although I've got a bad feeling that it'll be a
quickie because the answer is "no, you can't do that".  Anyway:

I want my Tk widgets (some of them, at least) to resize dynamically
with the window.

Trivial example:

#!/usr/bin/env python

from Tkinter import *

class Application(Frame):

    def __init__(self, master):
        Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.action = Button(self.master, text="Go")
        self.action.grid(sticky=N+E+W+S)

def main():
    root = Tk()
    app = Application(root)
    root.mainloop()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

I want the button to resize with the window.  I was hoping the call to
grid() would do it, but alas no: the button just sits there in the
middle of the window.

Worse, I can't see anything in the docs about how to do it (unless I'm
being blind/stupid).  If I can't do this, it's back to Qt...  :-(

Thanks in advance,

Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 19:50:05 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:50:05 -0500
Subject: Python quick setup URL for Linux setup?
References: <KUMp8.42208$1f1.3348682@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886l2$t17$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d1Op8.61543$Q7.48604465@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Aahz,

Yep, says I've got 2.1.1.  But is there an equivalent to PythonWin on Linux?
I'm GUI spoiled :)

thx


Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:a886l2$t17$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> >
> First of all, you should already have Python installed on your system
> (although an older version).  What happens if you just type "python"?
>






From lbut at stny.rr.com  Mon Mar 18 16:36:56 2002
From: lbut at stny.rr.com (Les Button)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:36:56 GMT
Subject: Problem using pexports & Cygwin to build Python 2.2 extension modules
References: <Pv2l8.131777$V15.22100907@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <a74hef$ejq$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <Y5tl8.117332$nl1.20248434@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:a74hef$ejq$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> try:
> setup.py build --compiler=mingw32
>

Works great! (and doesn't have problem with undefined SIZEOF_INT etc).
Thanks very much indeed,
--Les Button




From klaatu at evertek.net  Sun Mar 17 15:58:54 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:58:54 -0600
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
In-Reply-To: <oePl8kKkX4hO092yn@gnosis.cx>; from mertz@gnosis.cx on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 03:08:08PM -0500
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com> <just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <oePl8kKkX4hO092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <20020317145854.B2468@evertek.net>

* David Mertz, Ph.D. <mertz at gnosis.cx> [2002-17-03 15:08]:
> Nonetheless, I think of the natural language semantics of the
> symbols--or maybe better "insinuations"--prefers '<>' to '!='.  The
> (good) one suggests "is greater than or less than (but not equal to)".
> I know that not everything is technically in an order relation, but it
> still "makes sense" at a first approximation.  The (bad) one looks like
> some odd sort of augmented assignment.  "Hmmm... assign, what?  The
> negation of the right side to the left side?!  The LHS negated with the
> RHS?!"

One thing that's always baffled me on this issue (along these lines) -
why does Python have != as a not-equal operator, when ! is not the not
operator?

-Michael

-- 
The generation of random numbers is too import to be left to chance
                -- OpenBSD Fortune database



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Mar  3 18:30:49 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:49 +1100 
Subject: experimental patch to allow importing from file-like objects
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1CE@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de [mailto:gerson.kurz at t-online.de]
> 
> # redirect import hook ******************************
> old_import_func = __import__
> 
> def my_import_func(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None):
>     global old_import_func
>     
>     if name == "encrypted_test":
>         return imp.load_module(name,
>                                my_file_class("test.raw"),
>                                "test.raw",
>                                ('.raw','rb',imp.PY_FILEOBJECT_SOURCE))
> 
> 
>     # use original code    
>     return old_import_func( name, globals, locals, fromlist )
> 
> __builtins__.__import__ = my_import_func

One thing you may like to do (but don't hurry)

# redirect import hook ******************************

def my_import_func(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None,
old_import_func=__import__):

    if name == "encrypted_test":

which has three advantages and one disadvantage:

A1: avoids polluting your namespace

A2: prevents other code from rebinding old_import_func

A3: old_import_func will exist in the locals of the function, leading to
faster lookup

D1: It is possible (but highly unlikely) that someone could call your
function (either directly or indirectly via __builtins__.__import__) with
the wrong arguments.

Tim Delaney



From wayne at mishre.com  Fri Mar  1 21:52:42 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <3C803E7A.6000200@mishre.com>

Mats Wichmann wrote:
> Note: this is not a Python question per se.
> 
> I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
> through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
> (highlighted in some way). The wiki style doesn't seem to quite do it,
> as the core document is not protected. I haven't found much in web
> searches, and nothing where the software seems to be free.

If Wiki allowed for password protection would it fit your requirements? 
  I run a Wiki on Zope (ZWiki), which allows for password protection. 
You could also use Apache and setup the httpd.conf file to require 
authentication when someone accessed that part of the site.

Something like Zope's CMF Workflow[2] might also be a good fit....then 
there's OpenFlow[3] (also running on Zope :).

> I'd of course love it if this were done through Python since I'm on a
> bit of an advocacy kick...but in the end it doesn't matter much.
> Anybody know if anything like this is happening in any of the web
> services projects? 

I don't know if these __exactly__ match what you are looking for, but 
hopefully they will get you started.

[1] http://www.zwiki.org/FrontPage
[2] http://cmf.zope.org/design/design/interfaces/tools/IF_portal_workflow
[3] http://openflow.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Mar  4 07:35:23 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 13:35:23 +0100
Subject: File Attributes conversion
References: <2030665d.0203040431.1279d1ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4n0xoa4tw.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett) writes:

> e.g.
> File Size to display in bytes (if < 3kb), kilobytes (if < 2MB) and
> megabytes (> 2MB). How would you do that (the value I get is 12345L -
> what is the L?)

It indicates that that Python value was a 'long' integer (one that can
exceed 4GB); you best format format these with %d

> Modified/Created time to be displayed as GMT (DD mm YYYY, HH MM am/pm)
> 14/09/2002, 5:54pm (is it in seconds currently [starting from which
> year]?)

You can use time.strftime for that.

> I am doing this on Windows 98SE, is it possible to get the code to
> work cross platform as well?

As long as it is file sizes and time stamps, yes, certainly.

> PS Can you also get other attributes (read-only, hidden, compressed,
> system, archive, etc)?

I think you need to use the Win32 extensions for these, since they are
Microsoft-specific.

Regards,
Martin



From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  1 10:54:47 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 07:54:47 -0800
Subject: proxy authentication: how to hide password
References: <9ff6b66.0201250109.1c68a130@posting.google.com> <899f842.0202120818.11412d4b@posting.google.com> <9ff6b66.0202270901.3837af8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <899f842.0203010754.33ab63f2@posting.google.com>

vtail - what about prompting the first time a script is run?
store the password to a text file (or in the registry) and encrypt it.

Anthony

> I _feel_ bad - Perl didn't ask me any password when I run similar
> script. Neither did I defined any environment variables.
> 
> > prompt for the password if need be.
> 
> That's so painful to enter your login&password every time the script
> is running... ;-(

Perl uses http_proxy env variable.

> 
> Anyway, thanks for you ideas.
> 
> Vtail


From boud at valdyas.org  Sun Mar 24 17:14:44 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:14:44 -0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl> <3C9E2D31.E45278BC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3c9e33bc$0$24825$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> I'm curious what the agent actually does if it doesn't share
> anything.  Does it not take input?  And produce output?
> No opening files, accessing Queues and such?  If it does
> any of those things, wouldn't that make it potentially a
> problem if you killed it?
> 


Sending and receiving messages -- messages which are, very
carefully, _not_ shared objects.

> I realize it may be only a theoretical problem in some specific
> applications, since one might be able to guarantee that one will
> not attempt to kill a thread when it is in a particular subroutine
> and therefore unsafe.  It might be nice to have the option, if
> one really wanted, especially if there are simple conditions
> under which one could guarantee a thread is safe to kill (not
> blocking and without shared resources locked).
> 

It would be _very_ nice.


-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar 22 15:45:30 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:45:30 -0800
Subject: a website information gathering script
References: <3C9B33FA.3D853D65@lmco.com>
Message-ID: <a7g5h0$l3205$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Scott Hathaway
> I have a simple python script which gathers information about a
website
> and produces an html report about what it finds.  The way it works is
> very clunky and I would appreciate some feedback and help improving
it.


----------

if (file.endswith('html')==1) or (file.endswith('htm')==1) or
(file.endswith('asp')==1) or (file.endswith('php')==1) or
(file.endswith('js')==1) or (file.endswith('vbs')==1) or
(file.endswith('inc')==1) or (file.endswith('css')==1) :
            checkedFiles.append(file)

Why not:

if file.split('.')[-1] in
('html','htm','asp','php','js','vbs','inc','css'):
    checkedFiles.append(file)

----------

Concatenating strings is expensive so you might eliminate it, changing
to lists:

a = "<html><head>\n"
a += "<basefont ...

becomes:

a =[ """<html><head>
<basefont ..."""]

and changing cases of a += ... to a.append(...)

and perhaps even changing from:

a += "<tr><td...-1'>"  + str(len(referencedFiles)) +
"</font></td></tr>\n"
a += "<tr><td...-1'>"  + str(len(unReferencedFiles)) +
"</font></td></tr>\n"

to:

a.extend(["<tr><td...-1'>"
,str(len(referencedFiles)),"</font></td></tr>\n"])

although I'm not sure if that would be preferred over:

a.append("<tr><td...-1'>%s</font></td></tr>\n" %
str(len(referencedFiles)))


finally, do the string conversion something like:

html = str(a) + str(b)

becomes:

html = ''.join(a+b)

----------

You really, really want this to work, don't you?  ;-)

    try:
        fc = open(cFile,'r').read()
    except:
        fc = open(cFile,'r').read()

----------

I'm not real strong on regular expressions so check my code, but it
seems to me that the code that sets found could be something like:
(posting this is a good way to entice someone who knows into cleaning it
up... ;-) )

>>> for afile in allFiles:
...     if re.search('''['"\\/]'''+'file', afile): found = 1
...


HTH,


Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From thomas at weholt.org  Mon Mar 18 14:53:28 2002
From: thomas at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:53:28 GMT
Subject: Format profile-data into "nice" HTML ?
References: <0S9l8.11822$TU3.312633@news4.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <YArl8.12414$eJ6.230227@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

Posting a notice to let the group know of my very early and very simple
attempt at html-formatting on output from the profile/pstats-module.

The module is available at http://home.online.no/~t-weh/releases/hspstats.py
and a preview of the output is available here
http://home.online.no/~t-weh/releases/prf.html

Please let me benefit from comments and improvements ( there are room for
plenty :-) ) by sending me a mail etc.

Best regards,
Thomas Weholt




From jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au  Thu Mar 21 23:53:23 2002
From: jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au (Jamie Carl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:53:23 GMT
Subject: Execute external program
References: <3c9a7d0e_1@news.iprimus.com.au> <a7e3c1$kldi4$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3c9ab8a8_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

brilliant!  Knew it'd be easy.

J

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:a7e3c1$kldi4$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Jamie Carl" <jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3c9a7d0e_1 at news.iprimus.com.au...
> > Hopefully this is a simple question.  How can I get python to execute
> an
> > external program such as 'bash' or whatever?
> > Is there a line of code that will do this.  No interface with STDIO
> needed
> > so i can run blind.
> >
>
> C:\>python
> ActivePython 2.1, build 210 ActiveState)
> based on Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 19 2001, 10:28:27) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import os
> >>> os.system('dir')
>  Volume in drive C is DISK2PART01
>  Volume Serial Number is 36C1-7E27
>
> You should also look into spawn and pipe variants.
>
> HTH,
>
> --
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
>
> ---------
>




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 20:27:36 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:27:36 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OFB110620F.9BC487FC-ON88256B73.00074B45@i2.com>

[David Eppstein]
> The proposal is to extend it to
> also include three-way comparisons.

And, I assume, you mean three-way comparisons that are restricted to using
certain combinations of "< <= > =>"?

Since, for example, this kind of 3-way wouldn't work in a for-loop with
this proposal:

>>> i = 5
>>> 0 < i != 10
1
>>>

Jim




From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 17:32:01 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:32:01 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <a6lknu$8je$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <p30t8uoor948elt8n2huqdk4qlvkq880fn@4ax.com>

On 12 Mar 2002 19:25:50 GMT, Paul Hughett
<hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu> wrote:

>You might want to take a look at bblimage, which is an extension to
>Python written in C; it emphasizes high performance, but the set of
>operations implemented so far is oriented toward medical image
>processing.  It supports pretty much all the basic operations (+,-, ...
>sin, cos, exp, etc) on n-dimensional images in the usual integral and
>floating point types (but not complex, alas; I haven't starting playing
>with FFTs yet).  The URL is
>
>         http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/bbl/bblimage

Thanks, I had a look at the webpage. It really looks interesting to
me. But the basic calculations really faster than the one in SciPy or
Scientific Python?

>It really depends on how many diffraction patterns you need to do.  It
>doesn't make sense to spent two months learning C to save even 99% of
>a ten-hour computation that you're going to do only once.  (Unless
>your real purpose is to learn C.)  On the other hand. if you have to
>do a few hundred patterns, then it might be a good investment of time.

I will have to do it several times I guess... So 99% improvement in
speed would really be nice.

>For what it's worth, my own experience is that (b) using C for the
>heavy lifting and Python to glue the pieces together can be very
>effective if you implement the right piece in the right language.  I'm
>using bblimage for registration and segmentation of hundreds of volume
>images at half an hour apiece.  The current code runs almost as fast
>as plain C (about 4 times faster than a competing C++ implementation
>not particularly optimized for speed) but the Python code that glues
>it all together is easier to modify and experiment with than a C++
>implementation would be.

How do you glue C and Python together? Do you use any of the wrappers
(SWIG, weave etc.) or do you do it the hard way? I just didn't
understand the whole story about these PyObjects.

>One general comment: The performance killer in many applications like
>this is doing the innermost loop in the interpreted language (Python,
>Matlab, etc).  If you can recast your algorithm as operations on
>arrays rather than individual numbers, and your language does the
>implicit loops over the elements efficiently, you typically get 10x or
>so improvements in speed.  

Do you mean the array calculation of NumPy?

Thanks,

Martin


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 15:41:16 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 15:41:16 -0500
Subject: New-style exceptions?
References: <slrnaaerno.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <a87s9c$9nd$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnaaerno.ok0.mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no>,
Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
>Is there a reason why new-style objects can't be used in the raise
>statement?

Because that's the way it currently works.  Inherit from Exception and
Bob's your uncle.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar 27 19:29:45 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:29:45 -0800
Subject: list comprehension question
Message-ID: <OFA2D5BCFC.ABC4AC4E-ON88256B8A.00026AA5@i2.com>

[Tim Peters]
> No.  len([f(x) for x in y]) == len(y) whenever no exception occurs,
> regardless of the form of f() or type of y.

>>>
>>> class Y:
...   def __iter__(self):
...     return iter(xrange(5))
...   def __len__(self):
...     return 10
...
>>> def f(x): return x
...
>>> y = Y()
>>>
>>> len([f(x) for x in y]) == len(y)
0
>>>
Jim




From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 10:50:45 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:50:45 -0000
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015231327.3586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna875ul.vdr.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <mailman.1015231327.3586.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:
> For the rest of it, it looks like the "1e-200**2 raises OverflowError"
> glitch is unique to platforms using glibc.

No, it happens on OpenBSD 2.7 also.

Python 2.2 (#2, Feb  3 2002, 18:27:17)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on openbsd2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Result too large')


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 13:29:49 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:29:49 -0500
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <mailman.1017424426.12740.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA4B29D.DDDEA281@engcorp.com>

rasmussn at lanl.gov wrote:
> 
> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 10:46 AM, phil hunt wrote:
> 
> >> "Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
> >> message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
> >>> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
> >>> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
> >>> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
> >>> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
> >>> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
> >>> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
> >>> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
> 
> How about a Python substitute for make.

Waste of time to compete with http://scons.sourceforge.net/ right now...


From wayne at mishre.com  Fri Mar  8 15:00:02 2002
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:00:02 -0800
Subject: ANN: Python User Groups page at python.org
References: <2AWh8.478$eT3.149538@news.uswest.net> <3C883D30.1030905@attbi.com> <a68js8.3vsb5gp.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <3C891842.6080307@mishre.com>


Sheila King wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:17:55 GMT, Pete Shinners <shredwheat at attbi.com>
> wrote in comp.lang.python in article <3C883D30.1030905 at attbi.com>:
> 
> 
>>Kevin Altis wrote:
>>
>>>Python User Groups now have their own page on the Python web site:
>>>
>>>http://www.python.org/UserGroups.html
>>>
>>sadly nothing ever in the southern california area. anyone in OC or LA 
>>who enjoys this crazy python?
>>
> 
> Me. Actually, about 6 months ago or so, someone was going to start up one
> (like at UCI) and went so far as to set up a time and place and got a few
> responses, but then it fell through somehow.
> 
> I don't really have the time or facilities to be an organizer, so I laid
> low when it fell apart. But if someone else organizes it, I will come.
> (Assuming I can make my schedule work, of course.)
> 
> I'm in the Pomona/Chino/Brea area.

I'm at Pendleton for the next few months, depending on the schedule I 
may be able to attend.  I don't want to take on starting anything since 
I'll only be out here for about another 5 months or so.

-- 
Wayne Pierce
web: http://www.mishre.com
email: wayne at mishre.com

"What you need to know."




From weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com  Sat Mar 30 09:49:01 2002
From: weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:49:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1017508741.607098@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Guido van Rossum (guido at python.org) wrote:
: I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
: a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.

Having read this note (and nothing else on the subject), I vote "no".

I would, though, be happy to see built-in variables bound to 0 and 1.

Here is the argument that I find most compelling.  The annoyance of
seeing 

    >>> true
    1

is more than offset by the value of being reminded that Python, unlike
Java, attributes truth and falsity to objects that are not explicitly
boolean.


Greg


From tim-dated-1016242653.c3a0c9 at catseye.net  Fri Mar  8 20:37:32 2002
From: tim-dated-1016242653.c3a0c9 at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 08 Mar 2002 19:37:32 -0600
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <OFCD0E3B37.10C4F7A4-ON88256B77.0003FFEB@i2.com>
References: <OFCD0E3B37.10C4F7A4-ON88256B77.0003FFEB@i2.com>
Message-ID: <86lmd2bjxf.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

James_Althoff at i2.com writes:

[...]

> I just did the same for a small section of our code.  My quick little scan
> turned up 293 uses of [x]range.  Most -- as in nearly all -- of them are in
> for-loops and *are* used in conjunction with the indices of collections.
> 
> Our mileage might be different from others because our use of Jython is for
> large-scale, shipping, production-level, commercial applications rather
> than for small, throw-away scripts or core-language libraries.  Also (as
> mentioned) we use Jython and have to deal with tables and other kinds of
> collections written in Java outside the scope of core C-Python.  So I guess
> we lose.

Out of curiosity I ran a couple of quick greps over the TMDA source.
TMDA doesn't really fall into either of your "alternative" categories;
it's small, but definitely not throwaway and it's an application, not
a core library.  It's a mail processor to eliminate SPAM.  However,
it's pure Python; there's no integration with C or Java.

The results were that I found 52 or 53 'for' loops (scanned the
results of the grep by eye, since the word 'for' appears in comments
as well) and exactly no uses of [x]range at all.

So either Jason and I are significantly better than you and your team
at expressing ourselves naturally in Python <wink> or it's the need to
interface with Java that's forcing you to use integer indices all the
time.  I'm betting big money on the latter.


Tim



From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Sun Mar 31 17:14:00 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:14:00 +1100
Subject: Call for kjBuckets.c [was Re: relational database?]
In-Reply-To: <3CA7192C.E1C8974A@engcorp.com>
References: <pRzp8.4373$hi7.15765@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <5yEp8.5051$hi7.18667@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3CA7192C.E1C8974A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200203312214.WAA03905@crown.off.ekorp.com>

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 00:11, you wrote:
> Trung Hoang wrote:
> > "Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
> > news:m3eli1m2dt.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> >
> > > "Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:
> > > > What relational database is easy to setup and use with python?
> > >
> > > Gadfly.  It is a pure-Python database, and requires little
> > > administrative interaction.  It does not provide good performance,
> > > though...
> >
> > where can i get this ?
>
> Try Google?

Actually, that's not going to help much - last I looked www.chordate.com 
wasn't answering its calls. I'm currently in the process of repackaging 
gadfly, including the updated code from the Zope version (regex->re 
conversion mostly).

There'll be the usual sort of announcement when I'm done.

Does anyone have a copy of kjbuckets.c that they could send me?


    Richard



From brian at sweetapp.com  Fri Mar 29 12:59:38 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:59:38 -0800
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
In-Reply-To: <AE7F3B92-433D-11D6-ADF0-003065D61546@lanl.gov>
Message-ID: <002e01c1d74b$7f1842e0$445d4540@Dell2>

Craig wrote:
> How about a Python substitute for make.

Trent Mick was working on something like this a billion years ago. Here
is the sourceforge project url:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/black





From inigoserna at terra.es  Mon Mar  4 07:43:14 2002
From: inigoserna at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?= Serna)
Date: 04 Mar 2002 13:43:14 +0100
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
In-Reply-To: <%8Wf8.518$Az6.2357@news.hananet.net>
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net>
	<a5obj3$18di$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> 
	<%8Wf8.518$Az6.2357@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <1015245795.1614.42.camel@lethe.infernus.org>

Hello all,

El s?b, 02-03-2002 a las 02:57, Jonathan Gardner escribi?:
> Donn Cave scribbled with his keyboard:
> 
> > Quoth Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu>:
> > | I tried to use the shutil module... and to tell you the truth, it
> > | stinks. Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that
> > | has the equivalent of the unix shell utilities?

[...]
 
> It was just that the copytree function has this little comment:
> 
> The source code for this should be considered an example rather than a tool.
> 
> And it also won't copy to a directory that already exists... this is very 
> different than what 'cp' does.
>
> > | I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...
> > |
> > | Here is my wish list. Each of these should implement a significant
> > | portion of what the GNU utils do. They should be robust, and give
> > | reasonable results, and reasonable exceptions.
> > |
> > | touch, chmod, chown, chgrp, touch
> > | df, du
> > | cp, dd, install, mv, rm, shred

in a program I'm developing (lfm, a mc clone (*)), I've had to write my
own functions/wrappers to many of these functions. Though it's not hard
to develop them for a concrete platform (posix OS) I think they are not
easily extensible to other platforms such as windows or Mac.

Finally, after thinking (and coding, and erasing, and coding) and
thinking, I chose a mix of os module functions, my own functions and
os.system() calls. I think this is the best solution. Moreover, a
shutil2 module wouldn't be exactly what you need, so you'll have to
modify/extend some functions to adequate to your needs always.

In most cases, my own functions are just wrappers that take data from
the curses ui which format properly to pass to os module functions.

Regards,
I?igo


(*) http://www.terra.es/personal7/inigoserna/lfm
    NOTE: in a few days I'll release a new version of lfm.

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From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Thu Mar 21 18:54:57 2002
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoffrey Talvola)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:54:57 -0500
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
Message-ID: <BFFEB31BC23CCD44B8924E139E1D87E41241AF@MAILBOX.nameconnector.com>

I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by themselves if there
is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?  Is it possible to
control this behavior?  Just a link to some documentation of this behavior
would be greatly appreciated.

I don't think the same thing happens on Linux, or maybe it does but the
timeout is longer than 4 minutes there.

I've attached a set of 2 test scripts that provoke the behavior.  Start up
server.py first, then client.py, then wait 4 minutes.

- Geoff

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From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Thu Mar 21 19:37:38 2002
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:37:38 +1100
Subject: Python embedded like PHP 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "21 Mar 2002 18:17:38 MDT."
             <1016756258.554.46.camel@localhost> 
Message-ID: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

>> The intention is that Albatross templates be valid XML - while Albatross
>> will do the expected thing in the example you give above, it generally
>> provides a "better" way, such as:
>> 
>>         <al-img expr="something">
>
>Do you mean that you have a template tag for every kind of tag for which
>you would want to modify an attribute?  That's every single HTML tag --
>IMG is hardly the only one.  A dynamic CSS class attribute, for
>instance, or events (onMouseOver, etc), id tags, background colors...
>there's a million possibilities.

No, we don't, although we're considering some options (such as abusing
the XML namespace - for example: <al-img expr:src="something"> - thoughts?

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Mar  1 12:10:43 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:10:43 -0800
Subject: Python's Syntax
References: <ztOf8.28219$Hg1.4263955@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FB613.BA4B2A7A@alcyone.com>

David Russell wrote:

> I've had a look at a couple of tutorials for Python and it appears
> like
> this:
> 
> if condition == TRUE:
>     do this
> 
> How do you tell it when to stop? I just can't figure out how to do it.
> Could
> somebody explain it to me please, even though I have a strange
> suspicious
> that it is one of the simplest deatils imaginable.

That's an if statement, there's no "stopping" involved; it simply tests
the condition and then executes the "then" clause if it evaluates to
true.

You probably meant somethinng like a while loop:

	while condition:
	    statements

this continues to execute the statements while condition evaluates to
true.  It's precisely the same as C's

	while (condition)
	{
	    statements
	}

> Also, another thing about Python's syntax. Are statements just
> sperated by
> their lines, or do they have some form of seperator (like a
> semi-colon)?

You can use semicolons to separate multiple statements on the same line:

	x = 1; print x

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
\__/ Cicero
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Mar  1 15:16:21 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:16:21 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
Message-ID: <OFD635F888.95B74635-ON88256B6F.006AEB18@i2.com>

[James_Althoff]
> (On the other hand, if anyone knows *how* to "lure" any of
> them, be sure to let me know <wink>).

[Tim Peters]
> Well, I'm particularly swayed by posters who have a "<wink>" key
> and know how to use it.  Still, my take remains what it was at the
> start:  it isn't even half as disgusting as most people will say it
> is <wink>.

Ah, very good.  It's certainly encouraging to see that the ratio hasn't yet
exceeded that crucial "49.999% disgusting" level <wink>.

(Assuming decimal arithmetic on a calculator for this one).

Jim




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar 22 16:39:52 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:39:52 -0500
Subject: Customisation of comparison operators
In-Reply-To: <c396ce35.0203221307.3cba94e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEOFOGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Dave Haynes]
> Which of __lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__, __ge__ are used when
> sorting lists of objects with <list>.sort()?

Only __lt__, provided it's defined.

> Which of them is used for the 'in' and 'not in' comparisons?

Impossible to say unless you first tell me the types of all objects
involved.  If you're talking about builtin lists, only __eq__, provided it's
defined.  The meaning of 'x in y' is, in general, determined by y's
__contains__ implementation (provided it's defined).

>  Is __cmp__ no longer used at all if the above are defined?

Impossible to say unless etc <wink>.

> This might be dodgy practice, but I have some objects for which I
> want to provide subtly different behaviour for the comparison
> operators than for testing 'in' and 'not in'...

Yup, that's dodgy all right.




From netlangau at yahoo.com.au  Wed Mar 13 20:44:26 2002
From: netlangau at yahoo.com.au (Patrick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:44:26 +1100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015957103.25893.python-list@python.org> <3C8E7E90.6000608@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <WfTj8.2400$523.206744@ozemail.com.au>

"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3C8E7E90.6000608 at skippinet.com.au...

> [...]  The book I am working on now is *not* Python for .NET,
> but just .NET.  Python doesn't get much of a mention :(

Mark, out of curiosity: how did you conclude that the Python community is
not interested in .NET compatibility? Was it based on the lack of
contributions to your trial implementation? Or was it a perception that
Python *users* are not interested?





From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Thu Mar 21 08:27:41 2002
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 13:27:41 GMT
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net> <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com> <mailman.1016700873.1797.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9jnm2.tg1.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Dave Swegen <dswegen at software.plasmon.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I'm basically after a single file where such values can be stored, and
> then used in various parts of the program without having to pass extra
> configuation variables around.

How about just putting them in a module?

Have a file constants.py that just reads


name = "My Program"
pi = 3.1415926536


Then you can import constants and use constants.name, constants.pi, etc. You
can even "from constants import *" to directly put them in another module as
variables.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From sorpippo at libero.it  Thu Mar 21 15:07:22 2002
From: sorpippo at libero.it (Giuseppe Ricioppo)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:07:22 +0100
Subject: Painful apache compilation
Message-ID: <D3rm8.54610$1S3.1635300@twister1.libero.it>

Hi folks!!!

I am attempting to compile apache+mod_perl+php+mod_python.
When I run make the result is...
#####################
......snipped for brevity.....
...........................................
/usr/src/Python-2.2/libpython2.2.a(thread.o): In function
`PyThread_start_new_thread':
/usr/src/Python-2.2/Python/thread_pthread.h:174: undefined reference to
`pthread_sigmask'
/usr/src/Python-2.2/Python/thread_pthread.h:176: undefined reference to
`pthread_create'
/usr/src/Python-2.2/Python/thread_pthread.h:201: undefined reference to
`pthread_sigmask'
/usr/src/Python-2.2/Python/thread_pthread.h:210: undefined reference to
`pthread_detach'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [target_static] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/apache_1.3.22/src'
make[1]: *** [build-std] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/apache_1.3.22'
make: *** [build] Error 2
###########################

Wow!!! But... What does it mean? How can I solve the problem?

Thanks a lot.

Giuseppe Ricioppo.




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sun Mar  3 07:50:24 2002
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 12:50:24 GMT
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna846q3.me3.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Cromwell, Jeremy <jcromwell at ciena.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> If python was to allow "for i in 5:", is there any other meaning that would
> be appropriate besides the one detailed in PEP 276?

Yes.

It should give an error - 5 is not a sequence, so 'i in 5' is nonsense.

If you really want to change that, making it equivalent to for i in [5]:
seems the most natural meaning to me.

For iterating over the values 0..4, we have the nicely explicit and Pythonic
for i in range(5):. I haven't seen one very good reason why we need a second
way to do that - saving a few characters surely isn't enough.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From mail at andreas-penzel.de  Tue Mar 12 05:11:26 2002
From: mail at andreas-penzel.de (Andreas Penzel)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:11:26 +0100
Subject: IDv2/IDv3 Tag on mp3-files
Message-ID: <a6kk97$euq4d$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>

Hello NG!

Is it possible, to read the IDv2 or IDv3 Tag from mp3-files?

Thanks, Andreas




From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 03:39:53 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:39:53 -0600
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
In-Reply-To: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEJMDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Doug Farrell wrote:
> I work for a company that develops big content web sites using
> CGI's built with C++ as the primary programming model. [...]
> I'm of the opinion this is akin to killing a fly with a sledgehammer
> and am thinkin of some other mechanism.

It's more like killing a fly with a steamroller that you built
yourself from parts.

> What do you think of this idea? Am I completely off base and missing
> some other obvious solution?

Does iPlanet support servlets?  With Jython, you can write servlets
in Python.

The Servlet API is a bit different from CGI, but it's generally a
*good* difference.  Plus, this works to decrease your dependence
on any particular server vendor, rather than the opposite.

But, you'll have to learn the Java way of doing some things.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Tue Mar  5 04:14:44 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:14:44 GMT
Subject: I've got the unicode blues
References: <3c846d80.95456984@news.isar.de> <j4eliz73vp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3c848c0e.103279375@news.isar.de>

On 05 Mar 2002 10:36:26 +0100, Martin von Loewis
<loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

>There was a bug in the UTF-16 stream reader of Python 2.1, where it
>would not remember the byte order across .readline invocations. That
>bug is fixed in Python 2.2.
...
>Please try Python 2.2 first; if there is any remaing problem, report
>it to SF.
All tests were made using

PythonWin 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32 

from inside PythonWin.




From antoni3 at otenet.gr  Thu Mar 14 17:08:21 2002
From: antoni3 at otenet.gr (Kaklis Antonis)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:08:21 +0200
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <oa5k8.27154$lM.25760@news2.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <a6r6tq$47e$1@usenet.otenet.gr>

1) "Learning Python" --Mark Lutz & David Ascher
     Little old (covers Python1.5.2), but excellent for a begginer
2) "Core Python Programming" --Wesley J.Chun
     Details the core Python fundamentals and much more
3) And of course the Python tutorial
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/
4)"How to think like a computer scientist in Python
      http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

Antonis





From ayinger1 at pacbell.net  Thu Mar 14 22:53:19 2002
From: ayinger1 at pacbell.net (andrew)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 19:53:19 -0800
Subject: how do i get  xml.sax.make_parser()  to work on solaris and cygwin python
Message-ID: <be58dbe.0203141953.72bd94a6@posting.google.com>

hi.

following the basic sax tutorial, i can get an xml parser to work fine
on win32 like so:

	xmlparser = make_parser()
	xmlparser.setContentHandler(myHandler())
	xmlparser.parse(xmlFile)



but, when i run under cygwin or solaris, i get this error:

>>> p = make_parser()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/xml/sax/__init__.py", line 88, in
make_parser
    raise SAXReaderNotAvailable("No parsers found", None)
xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found


it looks like neither cygwin nor solaris python installation includes
expat libraries.  any idea how i can get this working?

i am using python 2.1/2.2.


thanks,
andrew


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  1 07:10:56 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:10:56 GMT
Subject: import Random: NV_MAGICCONST deviates too much.
References: <29575ad6.0202282330.16226275@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uheo0wkmv.fsf@python.net>

marijn at sanity.dhs.org (marijn Vriens) writes:

> Hi all...
> 
> I have get a strange exception when importing random. 
> I brought it down to:
> 
> Python 2.1.2 (#1, Jan 18 2002, 18:05:45) 
> [GCC 2.95.4  (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import gnome.ui
> >>> import random
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/random.py", line 93, in ?
>     _verify('NV_MAGICCONST', 1.71552776992141)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/random.py", line 88, in _verify
>     raise ValueError(
> ValueError: computed value for NV_MAGICCONST deviates too much
> (computed 2,82843, expected 1)
> >>> 
> 
> If I first import random and then gnome.ui I have no problems. my
> distr is debian woody with the standard python packages (not
> self-compiled) on an
> AMD-K6 
> 
> Anybody know what's going on ?

At a guess, something in gnome.ui is buggering around with locale
settings.  Don't know if this actually helps -- I can't see quite how
it could produce the above error...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The Internet is full.  Go away.
                      -- http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/ds011101.htm


From i-have at no.mail  Sat Mar 16 15:45:30 2002
From: i-have at no.mail (Jeffrey-man)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:45:30 +0300
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
Message-ID: <a70at9$2mec$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>

Hello, everybody!
I'm a newbie and I'm just learning. I know, it's a stupid question, but I
want to resolve it.
Learning the Begginers Guide, I found an exercise. It tells me:
"Write a program that continually reads in numbers from the user and adds
them together until the sum reaches 100."
Can anybody help me?

 -----

sum_stop = 100
num = input("Please enter the number: ")

for sum in range(num+num,sum_stop):
    print "Now the sum is", num+num
    sleep(1)

print "The sum is >/= 100!"

 -----

Maybe I'm doing something wrong?


Best regards.




From mcherm at destiny.com  Fri Mar 15 15:12:58 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Subject: unittest.py: what is TestResult.__repr__ ?
Message-ID: <3C9255CA.8080907@destiny.com>

The names with leading and trailing double underscores (like "__repr__") 
are "special" names. These correspond to methods (or other things) which 
have special meaning to Python.

For instance "__init__" is the special method which is called to 
initialize new instances of a class when they are created.

"__repr__" is the special method which is called to create a string 
which represents the class. Actually, that's a little bit misleading, 
because I'd give the SAME definition for the special method "__str__". 
Python has two different convert-to-cannonical-string-form methods, 
because in certain cases (eg: strings) it's useful. Normally, __str__ 
will be a "normal" convert-to-string method, and __repr__ will convert 
to some form which would, if executed, re-create the object.

For more information see http://python.org/doc/current/ref/specialnames.html

-- Michael Chermside





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 16:58:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 22:58:45 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com> <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA622EF.B7C84035@geneva-link.ch>
Message-ID: <m3it7d90q2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Boris Qar?" <borcis at geneva-link.ch> writes:

> How's that ? What's the point of making bool a type if we
> can't subclass methods for __and__, __or__, __or_not__,
> etc ? we could still save the shortcut semantics ...

Those are redefined in bool (although the third one is name __xor__);
but they refer to the bitwise operators, &, |, ^.

The shortcut construct (and, or) won't change under this PEP.

Regards,
Martin


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Fri Mar 22 20:41:21 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:41:21 -0800
Subject: Begginers Guide - Exrcise. Help me, plz!
References: <mailman.1016313447.30968.python-list@python.org> <a7dos3$2apu$1@news.idiom.com> <3C9B7A1E.451453BA@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a7fqc1.3vs965t.1@kserver.org>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:38:22 -0800, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article <3C9B7A1E.451453BA at ccvcorp.com>:

> 
> 
> Jim Dennis wrote:
> 
> >  Shouldn't all these (helpful) examples be using raw_input() rather
> >  than input().  Do we really want the new user to be implicitly and
> >  blindly using eval(raw_input())?
> 
> Yes, they should.  :)  The calls to input() should, in this case, all be
> replaced by int(raw_input()), and optionally wrapped in a try/except and while
> loop, so that the program can prompt again if a non-numeric value is given.  I
> almost mentioned this in my earlier response, but decided not to overly confuse
> the O.P. -- this essentially doubles the code size.

I think it is important, when someone new asks one of their first
questions, to just focus on answering the question at hand.

Someone brand-new to programming has a difficult time to learn:
ok...to repeat your program, you need a loop, and here's how the loop
works, and you need to initialize your variables, and also it's a good idea
to check your input and...

Too many things thrown at them at once can be quite overwhelming.

Simply ignoring the input issue for now is fine. As they work with their
code, they will probably hit a wrong key occassionally, and notice that the
program produces and error message. It's a good thing, to have that type of
experience. If it becomes annoying because it happens often, or if they
become curious about whether there is a way to avoid such error messages,
they will probably come back and ask about that then, when they are more
ready to learn about that.

"Say, thanks for your help with the loop thing. I've been working on my
code and I noticed that if I enter a value that isn't an integer, it causes
problems in my program..."

When they ask about it, is when they are ready to learn about it. You don't
have to give them perfect code as a response to early programming
questions.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/





From mlerner at rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu  Fri Mar 15 12:08:43 2002
From: mlerner at rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Michael George Lerner)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:08:43 GMT
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
References: <mailman.1016065525.9745.python-list@python.org>  <umbsdr8kmj.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se> <4f5k8.435$zT5.13755@news.itd.umich.edu> <um8z8u88nd.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se> <um7koe88hl.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>
Message-ID: <vUpk8.473$zT5.15215@news.itd.umich.edu>

Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> wrote:
> Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> writes:

>> Michael George Lerner <mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> writes:
>> 
>> > I wanted to match this:
>> > 
>> > (?P<foo>foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo)
>> > 

<snip>

>> That's what I get for not reading the manual... :/

<snip>

>  
>      r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}$) *foo *$)')
>                                      ^        ^
>                                      !        !
>             notice missing dollars --+--------+

Cool! .. but still not quite what I wanted ..

And that's what *I* get for snipping information out when I post a
followup :/.  

In my original post, I mentioned that I wanted something like 
r'(?P<start>start)(?P<foo>  foo  )(?P<end>end)' i.e. other patterns 
on the same line before and after foo.

placing-?=-in-my-bag-of-regex-tricks-ly yours,

-michael


From calves at coelce.com.br  Mon Mar 11 13:18:43 2002
From: calves at coelce.com.br (Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:18:43 -0300
Subject: RES: lambda question
Message-ID: <29A97D00F387D411AC7900902770E148044AB618@lcoeexc01.coelce.net>

Sorry, but your code doesn't work also. See below:

>>> def exe1(f,list):
	return map(lambda x,list=list:eval(f),list)
SyntaxError: local name 'f' in 'exe1' shadows use of 'f' as global in nested
scope 'lambda' (<pyshell#11>, line 1)
>>> 

By the way, where can I find the Python's LGB scoping rules. I would like to
read that.

> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Fredrik Lundh [mailto:fredrik at pythonware.com]
> Enviada em: segunda-feira, 11 de mar?o de 2002 14:59
> Para: python-list at python.org
> Assunto: Re: lambda question
> 
> 
> lambda questionAlves, Carlos Alberto wrote:
> 
> > first code:
> >         f='x**3+2*x'
> >         list=[0,1,2,0]
> >         map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> >
> > second code:
> >
> >         def exe1(f,list):
> >                 return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> >
> > Can someone explain to me why the first code works while
> > second doesn't.
> 
> because you're running under Python 2.1 or earlier, and
> haven't read up on Python's LGB scoping rules?
> 
> if so, the following should do the trick:
> 
>     def exe1(f,list):
>         return map(lambda x,list=list:eval(f),list)
> 
> </F>
> 
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar 28 04:36:23 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 09:36:23 GMT
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <mailman.1017265646.6616.python-list@python.org> <a7tgkv$t3m$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <a7uo6n$2mlp$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <a7tgkv$t3m$1 at web1.cup.hp.com>, jimh wrote:

>> It sounds as though somehow or other you want to put the
>> actual error number data for each class into MessageCatalog
>> and give the 50 classes some interface for registering
>> their error numbers with MessageCatalog.  Then MessageCatalog
>> is oblivious to what other classes there are, except that
>> at run time they tell it about themselves.  You could add
>> another object for holding the error number data
>> and have one instance per class---if that provides a convenient
>> structure for accessing the error number data...

>> susan

>I will have to think about that one.  When a class accesses the
>MessageCatalog, it may be requesting message text from _other_ classes'
>errors.  Also, these are often called from cgi scripts, so they are run as a
>one-shot deal.  Also(!), the case of an error is (theoretically) uncommon
>and the MessageCatalog is only instantiated if an error occurs.  That way,
>if no error occurs, there is no overhead with importing the MessageCatalog.

>One thought I had was to split out all the error numbers from the class
>files (kind of like .h versus .c files).  Then MessageCatalog.py would only
>import the ".h" files and I wouldn't have the circular import reference.
>However, that would add another 50(!) files.

>Jim

 That's abhorent!  Just put the list of 50 error codes in the
 MessageCatalog.py file directly.  Let all 50 modules (or other 
 scripts, or whatever they are) load that on demand (when they need
 their own or ANY other error code.  The message catalog module 
 can't possibly be big enough and/or slow enough to create any 
 measurable overhead for the various component scripts.  If there
 is any measurable latency then look at some sort fast CGI or
 mod_pyton, mod_snake or some other way to give these CGI scripts
 some persistence.




From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Mar 11 00:07:24 2002
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett Cannon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:07:24 -0800
Subject: Internships and summer jobs
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0203102103050.13778-100000@death.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>

Is there any place out there to find a list of Python-related internships
or summer jobs?  How about entry-level Python jobs?  I don't know about
others, but I am graduating from school and looking for any of the three
types of jobs mentioned above and would love to know of a place online
listing such opportunities for people like me with Python experience.  And
I really doubt I am the only Python programmer graduating come summer.

-Brett C.



From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 06:40:38 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:40:38 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <uvgc2rmjr.fsf@python.net> <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com> <a6mncn$koc$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9gcu8u483cn544anr78k67jsknuv4tb6ks@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:15:43 -0700, "Andrew Dalke"
<dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot for you long answer!

>Here's some performance improvements you can make

[lots of very helpful stuff snipped...]

>Some of these changes are only faster for sufficiently long arrays,
>so you should test them out yourself.  The biggest trick is to
>precompute as much as possible (Python doesn't optimize constant
>expressions).  This includes precomputing lookups of functions
>references, like the "local_sin". 

Yes, I heard about this "local" trick, but I didn't try it yet.

>That code is almost identical with the previous code, so you can do
>the same optimization tweaks.  You could also precompute which hist
>elements have entry[1] == 0 so you don't do that check every time
>in the loop.  (As it is now, the "if" check is probably more expensive
>than the calculation, even if you know it's zero, unless there are a
>lot of zeros.)

I didn't quite understand this part. How should I precompute the zero
entries? How do I know where they are? Or should I just cut them out
before and access the histogram differently?

>If your lists are really long (O(100,000) or more?) then you might find
>that the append starts taking too long -- append is asymptotically O(n**n)
>in Python -- so that precomputing
>
>  i_vector = [None] * len(s_vector - 1)
>
>then keeping an index 'n' to replace
>  i_vector.append( ...)
>with
>  i_vector[n] = ...
>is faster.  But this is unlikely.

The list are not that long. Probably only a couple of thousands
entries.

>Probably the best optimization you can do, if PyInline is an acceptable
>approach, is to write put that sinc sum into C code.  It reduces to
>taking two lists and returning a float.

I tried to use weave.inline. Here is my code. But put your coffee away
before you read it (you might spill it otherwise over your keyboard)
and _please_ don't laugh out loudly.. I really didn't know what I was
doing, but it somehow worked...

----------- code begin -------------
    code = """
        PyObject *intens=PyList_New(s_length);
        double sum, x, s, h, f_s, i;
        for (long t=1;t<s_length;t++) {
            s=py_to_float(PyList_GetItem(s_vector.ptr(),t),"s"); 
            sum=0;
            for (long r=1;r<hist_length;r++) {
                x=2*PI*s*r/hist_mult;
                h=py_to_int(PyList_GetItem(hist.ptr(),r),"h"); 
                sum=sum+(2*h*sin(x)/x);
            }
            f_s=py_to_float(PyList_GetItem(f_s_vector.ptr(),t),"f_s");
            i=atoms*f_s*f_s*(1+sum/atoms);
            PyList_SetItem(intens, t, PyFloat_FromDouble(i));
        }
        return_val = Py::new_reference_to(intens);
        """
    intens = weave.inline(code, ['s_length', 's_vector',
		 'hist_length', 'hist', 'hist_mult', 'PI','atoms',
		 'f_s_vector'],
                            verbose=2, force=0, compiler = 'gcc')
------------- code end ------------

Today I did a couple of test, but only on small clusters. The timing
routine measured not only the double loop but also the radius
calculation before. Here the results:

------------- results
56 Atom Bi Cluster
running calculate_nohist 3 times took 26.393 s (8.798 s per run)
running calculate_hist 3 times took 17.300 s (5.767 s per run)
running calculate_hist_sci 3 times took 33.052 s (11.017 s per run)
running calculate_hist_weave 3 times took 3.101 s (1.034 s per run)

124 Atom Bi Cluster
running calculate_nohist 3 times took 126.595 s (42.198 s per run)
running calculate_hist 3 times took 21.728 s (7.243 s per run)
running calculate_hist_sci 3 times took 58.345 s (19.448 s per run)
running calculate_hist_weave 3 times took 4.247 s (1.416 s per run)
------------

The "nohist" is the first solution (slow), the "hist" is my second
solution with histograms, the "hist_sci" is the solution using
Scientific Python histograms, and the "hist_weave" is the solution
presented above. The speed of the weave solution is quite incredible!

Thanks again,

Martin
 


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Mar  2 02:04:31 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:04:31 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1015025883.4457.python-list@python.org> <a5plko$f7n$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <a5ptsb$99s16$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Carel Fellinger"
> You specify that the
> integer to iterate over should be possitive, why not allow for
> negative values and do the sensible thing, like:
> 
>    >>> [i for i in -3]
>    [-1, -2, -3]

If you change the sensible thing to mean:

  [-3, -2, -1]

I'd like it better.  ;-)


Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com





From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar 14 06:23:25 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:23:25 GMT
Subject: Python Version Strategy?
References: <xIYj8.16613$_L.7649@news1.bloor.is> <mailman.1016094984.20818.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ur8mnqtj8.fsf@python.net>

Trent Mick <trentm at ActiveState.com> writes:

> [Bo Vandenberg wrote]
> > I'm confused by what is going on with the python versions from various
> > sources.
> > 
> > Python.org has a final 2.2 (I use that) but Activestate has a python 2.1 as
> > its recommended python and only a 2.2 beta last I looked.
> 
> 2.2 is the latest stable Python release (modulo your own definition of
> stable). It was released 21 Dec 2001.
> 
> If your definition of stable is pretty high then you might want to consider
> using Python 2.1.2 (i.e. Python 2.1 with two addition bugfix releases).
> 
> ActivePython (from ActiveState) does not have a final 2.2 build just because
> we are behind (discliamer: I work at ActiveState). Expect an ActivePython 2.2
> very soon.

Are you going to wait for 2.2.1?  That shouldn't be all that far off.

> > Redhat, and most (all?) of the linux distros seem to be slow to fully
> > upgrade and I feel like this is raining in my cornflakes.
> 
> Yup. As I understand it the core Python folks don't really have any pull for
> what default Python version gets installed for the various Linux distros.
> 
> 
> > I'm not even beginning to think of when the next version of python (3?)
> > comes out.
> 
> The next version of Python will almost certainly be 2.3. The release schedule
> is here:

Well, the next version to be released will be 2.2.1, which is 2.2 +
bugfixes (there are quite a lot).

This will be released more-or-less when I get round to it, but "fairly
soon".  There will be at least one release candidate first.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
8. A programming language is low level when its programs require
   attention to the irrelevant.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 01:12:03 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:12:03 -0700
Subject: interactive python shell
References: <mailman.1017254623.8656.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7uc9g$d0m$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

ian reinhart geiser wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Greetings
> I have an python application and I would like to provide a "console" in the
> application where users can have an interactive session with python that has
> all of the applications enviroment.  This is for debugging the system in
> real time.
> 
> Is there an easy way to do this?  All it needs to do is execute commands and
> return data.  I am using PyQt for my GUI, so it would be cool to fit into
> there, but I can get away with a input line and a display view if that is
> easier.  This is not for production, only to make a more useful debug tool.

Check out 

http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/

Please grab the latest version (.10pre3 as of now), as it includes a number of 
fixes specifically for what you want to do. With IPython, there's a class for 
embedding exactly as you want, docs and examples are provided. If you end up 
using it, let me know how it goes.

Cheers,

f.


From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 12:33:03 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:33:03 GMT
Subject: time out socket
Message-ID: <jr4l8.22206$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Would anybody please tell me how time out the socket.connect() if the host
does not exists or is unable to connect, thanks!

Billy




From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Sat Mar  9 12:35:14 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:35:14 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157 at news2.bloor.is>, Qiang.JL wrote:
> I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
> stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two languages to
> improve my language view. There are two languages are on the list: python
> and C++

You say C++ here, but later you say C/C++.  C and C++ are different
languages.  IMO, C is worth learning simply because it's a very
low-level language (relative to the others you know) and lots of
interesting software (e.g.perl, java, and python) is implemented in
C.  It'll also expose you to explicit memory management, pointers, etc.
and to a procedural programming style.

In my daily work, I do 90% of my coding in Python, occasionally dropping
down to C when necessary, and occasionally using another language.  While
C++ was the first language I learned, I basically never use it.

At any rate, learn plain C before you learn C++ and consider strongly
whether or not you need C++ at all (this will be partially platform
driven).  I'd say to learn Python first, but it really depends on what
you want to do with the language.

> How many language do you think one should _master_? I think one or two is
> enough.learning others are letting you to learn the language concept and
> structure etc certainly helpful.

I think a good progammer should master at least one statically typed
functional language (ocaml is my preference, other examples are ML,
Haskell), one high-level dynamic language (Python, or Ruby, Smalltalk,
etc) and C for pragmatic reasons.  That gives some exposure to many
different kinds of programming.  

After that, Lisp, Prolog, and eiffel are worth a look (not necessarily
master) from a mind-expansion POV (and some assembly language) and from
a pragmatic POV Perl, Java, and C++ (on Windows) or Objective C (on Mac)
or the Unix scripting environment (awk, sed, [k]sh, etc) on Unix.

  Sumner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sat Mar 30 22:39:50 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 03:39:50 GMT
Subject: web - recommended authentication?
Message-ID: <ayvp8.3121$hi7.12423@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Greetings,

i wish to create authentication for a section of my website. what is a good
practiced way to do this?

via cookies?
via .htaccess? (but i do not wish to use directories is it possible to
restrict a script & query string? suppose script.cgi?request=specialarea via
.htaccess??)

what are your thoughts?

cheers




From donn at drizzle.com  Tue Mar 26 10:28:47 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:28:47 -0000
Subject: I imaplib reliable?
References: <GtELu3.DA2@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <dlim7a.qp2.ln@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <1017156522.615917@yasure>

Quoth "Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com>:
| > I'm just not sure if Python's imaplib has been war tested.
|
| When I last tried it about 6 months ago, I found it to be full of
| problems.  In particular it pretty much just returned raw IMAP
| protocol strings for most operations.  The user of the library
| then has to do far too much parsing work.

Pardon me if I'm a little defensive of people who have contributed
useful software to the python library.  "Full of problems" is not
"doesn't do everything I hoped it would."  imaplib basically handles
IMAP4 as a network protocol.  Everyone who has used it will agree
that there's a lot of work left to the user.  But that's arguably
the only way to go.

Should imaplib parse everything?  Well, that would be nice, maybe,
but into what kind of structure?  If I set out to do that, I'd
probably use MxTextTools and return that kind of result - ever
seen what that looks like?  Others would probably prefer a parser
that performs user-supplied actions as it parses the input.  The
difference is significant.  The amount of work necessary to do
either one right is fairly substantial, and probably requires a
C module (like MxTextTools) if it's to be done efficiently, and
yet whatever you do, it's highly likely it will work out best for
you and not so well for anyone else, because we're fairly deep in
the application specific area at this point.  I'm not saying it
wouldn't be a great idea for someone to take this on, but it's
totally unfair to dismiss imaplib as "full of problems" because
it doesn't do it.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar 16 00:43:27 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:43:27 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1016173476.645562@yasure> <2b57f654.0203151021.7f709e4c@posting.google.com> <a6tic4$uke$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <2b57f654.0203151908.33413282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna95msn.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <2b57f654.0203151908.33413282 at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:
> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<a6tic4$uke$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
>> Quoth wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef):
>> ...
>> |> The complementary problem, of course, is that once you have invoked
>> |> readline(), it will read all the data available on the file descriptor,
>> |> or a lot of it anyway, and return only the first line.  The next time,
>> |> it will return the next line from its buffer, but you have no way to
>> |> know that it has another line waiting there.  select() can't see it.
>> |> There are solutions, I think the easiest thing in most cases is to
>> |> throw away the file object and just use the file descriptor (fileno())
>> |> (or sockets in this case.)
>> |
>> | This is even more frightening.  I don't want to lose any data!  How
>> | can I protect myself from this?  Why is using the file descriptor
>> | better?
>> 
>> Well, you're not exactly losing data, it's just buffered, though that
>> may be too fine a point depending on the circumstances.
> 
> Here's what I mean.  If I do a select.select() and it says, "there's
> data," then I do a readline() on the file object, but select() was
> talking about 2 lines of data, I will lose a line of data, because my
> next select() will say "nothing left."  Is that right? 

No.  If there is two lines of data and you only read one, the
second one is still there.  Calling select will return
immediately since there is data ready.

> I just want to be sure I understand this.  You're saying that
> os.read() somehow get what select.select() was talking about, but that
> f.fromchild.readline() will read less than that?

If I understand correctly, the answer is yes.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My mind is a potato
                                  at               field...
                               visi.com            


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar  7 03:38:37 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 08:38:37 GMT
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
References: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com> <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <a678ud$30dv$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706 at ruti.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:
>In article <a65pkr$235o$1 at news.idiom.com>, Jim Dennis wrote:

 ...

> You've misunderstood what select() is telling you.  When select
> returns a read fd, that doesn't mean there's data available. It
> means that a read() call on that fd will not block.  A read()
> call on a regular file's fd never blocks: it always returns
> immediately with data or with EOF.  Therefore, select() will
> always return a read fd immediately for a regular file.

> IOW, select() is supported for regular files, but the semantics
> aren't very useful.

>>  This seems to contradict the documentation:

>> Wait until one or more file descriptors are ready for some kind
>> of I/O.

> "ready for some kind of I/O" means that the read() or write()
> call will not block.  In the case of a read fd it doesn't imply
> that there is data available.

>>  Is this a bug?  I'm using Python2.2 as packaged by Debian (unstable)
>>  on a Debian GNU/Linux system  (what a surprise, a Debian package 
>>  on a Debian system!) under 2.4.9 SMP kernel).

> Probably -- in the sense that the documenation was not
> sufficient to prevent a surprise.  Not in the sense that the
> select() call doesn't do what the designers intended.

>>  Would poll() be a better choice?  The __doc__ for that is a bit
>>  terse.

> IIRC, poll() will do the same thing.

 O.K. so what can I do for asynchronous I/O notification on 
 regular files?  How can I efficiently block and wake up when
 I/O is available on any of my file descriptors?  

 Don't tell me I have to go into a sleep and poll stat() or
 seek() loop!  It's hard to imagine that UNIX got this far 
 without offering a better solution than that!




From holger at trillke.net  Sun Mar 24 15:25:06 2002
From: holger at trillke.net (holger at trillke.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:25:06 +0100
Subject: Stopping threads from the outside
In-Reply-To: <3C9E2D31.E45278BC@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:46:57PM -0500
References: <mailman.1016973877.10866.python-list@python.org> <a7kprv$ac$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1016985696.13789.python-list@python.org> <3C9E173A.88BBDBB4@engcorp.com> <3c9e2692$0$24819$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl> <3C9E2D31.E45278BC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020324212506.G12768@prim.han.de>

> > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > > Yes, that's the case.  It's generally considered to lead to
> > > undefined behaviour if you do manage to kill a thread from
> > > the outside, because of resource locking issues and such.
> > 
> > That's the received opinion indeed. It still leads to problems.
> > I mean -- it's why you can kill a process, but not a thread. But in
> > an agent system, every agent (presumably running a thread, although
> > I've implemented systems where agents share threads, cooperative
> > multi-tasking agents) is on its own, and shouldn't own objects
> > or locks.
> 
> I'm curious what the agent actually does if it doesn't share
> anything.  Does it not take input?  And produce output?
> No opening files, accessing Queues and such?  If it does
> any of those things, wouldn't that make it potentially a
> problem if you killed it?

Well. my agents share a namespace (named share:-) through which they
can get to one another. 

You don't neccessarily need to brutally kill the thread without 
the running code in that thread to notice it. Something like this 
would be nice:

def run(self): # thread's run
    try:
        while something:
            do_something()
    except ThreadInterruptException,e:
	niceley_free_locked_resources_or_such()

or "simply" let the python interpreter switch the
program flow to "destroy(self)" or so. This might require
the thread to notify external modules e.g. a mt-safe Queue
that all locks associated with this thread are
to be released. But it would help. And somehow i think
the interpreter must know about the threads as it is 
managing it (e.g. the global interpreter lock). So this
should be possible?

I don't know if this run-method would be possible if the thread
sits in socket.accept() or such. But this issue has not much
to do with locked resources hanging around.

	holger



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Thu Mar 28 17:43:46 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:43:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Newbie Question about os.removedirs()
In-Reply-To: <qQMo8.10948$Eb5.982772@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020328144346.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> IMPORTANT (to me, anyway) NEWBIE QUESTION:  What does Debian mean?
> 

it stands for 'Deb and Ian'.  Ian Murdock invented the Debian Linux
distribution and named it after his wife and himself.  it is pronounced as if
you said their two names.



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Mar 26 22:59:19 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:59:19 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com>

>I'd say the skills required to write clear, readable
>software and clear, readable novels are not entirely
>disjoint!

Oh certainly not, you just haven't backed up to a big
enough perspective of the cognitive domain. :)

C//



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Mar 29 16:29:03 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:29:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: string copying
In-Reply-To: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020329132903.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 29-Mar-2002 Robin Becker wrote:
> Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying. I
> suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
> differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'
> 

yes, the documentation is pretty clear that a string is a constant once
defined.  The current copy is a reference implementation is supposed to be an
optimization for standard usage.

What are you trying to accomplish where this is a hindrance rather than a gain?



From danielm at cronus.res.cmu.edu  Thu Mar 28 14:51:23 2002
From: danielm at cronus.res.cmu.edu (Dan Moskowitz)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 11:51:23 -0800
Subject: rexec:  I don't seem to understand "nok_builtin_names"
Message-ID: <39503ed5.0203281151.25d2cdda@posting.google.com>

Can someone tell me why execing "open" works, but not "len"?

>>> from rexec import RExec
>>>
>>> class MyRExec(RExec):
...     nok_builtin_names = RExec.nok_builtin_names + ("len",)
...
>>> r = MyRExec()
>>> print 'invisible names: '+`r.nok_builtin_names`
invisible names: ('open', 'reload', '__import__', 'len')
>>> r.r_exec('open')
>>> r.r_exec("len('foo')")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/depot/python2/lib/python2.1/rexec.py", line 264, in r_exec
    exec code in m.__dict__
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'len' is not defined


From stefan.heimann at web.de  Sun Mar  3 15:17:56 2002
From: stefan.heimann at web.de (Stefan Heimann)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 20:17:56 GMT
Subject: Problems with print str,
Message-ID: <slrna8517i.2cm.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>

Hi!

I have the following code-snippet:

while 1:
  prompt = '> '
  print prompt,
  a = sys.stdin.readline()
  print a

and get the following:

> hello
 hello

>

but I want it to look like:

> hello
hello

>

As you can see, there is a space in the 2nd line that should not be
there. I played around with

>>> sys.stdin.softspace
0
>>> sys.stdout.softspace
0

but couldn't figure out, how to avoid the leading space.

Any help would be great!

Thanks, Stefan


From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 11:48:20 2002
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:48:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
References: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a608gk$n1k$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Is there a way to install Python 2.2 after 2.1.2 and keep 2.1.2 as the
> default for a win32 box. It would allow us to dip a toe in the water
> without drowning. 

Well, it's a bit of a roundabout solution, but if you install CygWin you 
get the latest version of Python and it doesn't interfere with anything 
else.


                     Graham


From jim at jim.jim  Thu Mar 28 12:44:27 2002
From: jim at jim.jim (jimh)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:44:27 -0800
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <a7tbd4$qc7$1@web1.cup.hp.com> <3CA298C1.6F5791AE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a7vkpp$lib$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

> Like some others already pointed out, exceptions are probably
> a better and more Pythonic way to handle this. But maybe, for
> some reason, you cannot use them. I cannot see your code,
> so I can't tell.

Regardless of using exceptions or not, each class still has a list of errors
that can occur, and those errors need to be mapped to (possibly localized)
strings.

> How about putting all error codes in one file? E.g. errors.py:
>
>   FOO_ERROR = 1000
>   BAR_ERROR = 1001
>   BAZ_ERROR = 1002
>   ...etc...
>
> Now all your 50 files can import errors.py and use the error
> codes, rather than having to define them themselves.

You lose modularity when you do this.  The way it is now, each class is
self-contained - everything about that class is in a single file.  It is
much easier to share classes with other developers (which we do) this way.
Having said that, this may be preferable over having an additional 50 ".h"
files.  I was just hoping there would be a good "Pythonic" way to deal with
this situation.

>
> All your MessageCatalog class needs to do is import that
> errors.py file as well. Since it seems to be used for
> mapping, have you considered using a dictionary? E.g.
>
>   error_mappings = {
>     FOO_ERROR: "Foo not implemented",
>     BAR_ERROR: "Ixnay on the bar",
>     ...etc...
>   }
>
> Again, I can't see your code, so maybe I'm oversimplifying.
> Still, knowing your description only, this is how I
> would set it up.
>
> HTH,
>




From amund.tveit at pvv.org  Wed Mar  6 09:22:19 2002
From: amund.tveit at pvv.org (Amund Tveit)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 15:22:19 +0100
Subject: PDF solutions?
References: <mailman.1015343048.21786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3adtlsrms.fsf@cavenan.idi.ntnu.no>

"Steven D. Arnold" <stevena at neosynapse.net> writes:

> I'm looking for low- or no-cost solutions to the following PDF
> problems.
> 
> (1) I need to be able to replace form data in a PDF file with
> arbitrary strings.
> 
> (2) I need to be able to merge multiple PDF files together.
> 
> I have found several commercial solutions; I'm looking for open-source
> options.  I have looked at ReportLab and on the surface it doesn't
> appear to have ready-to-go functionality in this regard, but maybe I'm
> missing something.  Any solution that solves even one of these
> problems would be great.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Etymon PJ (www.etymon.com/pj/) is possibly an alternative for
manipulating pdf documents. (It is java-based, so jython may be the
way to go)

Amund
http://www.jfipa.org/amund/



From che at debian.org  Wed Mar 20 02:48:58 2002
From: che at debian.org (Ben Gertzfield)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:48:58 +0900
Subject: [mimelib-devel] Re: Still same bug even with email ver. 1.2
In-Reply-To: <15512.12906.262129.702973@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@zope.com's
 message of "Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:55:38 -0500")
References: <a7233u.3vsfci7.1@kserver.org>
	<7876a8ea.0203180837.4aaa1542@posting.google.com>
	<u4rjdred0.fsf@python.net>
	<vDsl8.992$%m2.418@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
	<a74sdh.3vsec89.1@kserver.org>
	<15512.12906.262129.702973@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <87ofhjptlh.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>

>>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw <barry at zope.com> writes:

    BAW> What I think we ought to do is to deprecate
    BAW> Message.add_payload() but leave its semantics unchanged,
    BAW> change Message.attach() to not be an alias for add_payload(),
    BAW> and define the semantics of attach() to always set the
    BAW> payload to a list.  Thus, the first time you call attach().
    BAW> I think attach() should retain the semantics that if the MIME
    BAW> type isn't multipart/* it should throw an exception (i.e. you
    BAW> can't attach() to a non-multipart; use set_type() first).

I don't really see any other way to deal with this without incurring
extra breakage.

    BAW> For Python 2.2, I /think/ I can fix
    BAW> Generator._handle_multipart() to watch out for subparts that
    BAW> are scalar[1].  If so, then the patch to the Parser described
    BAW> above probably ought to be backed out.  As long as the unit
    BAW> tests pass, I think we'd be okay.  This is probably a good
    BAW> patch to keep for Python 2.3, just to be safe.

That will be a good work around for the time being, IMHO.

Ben

-- 
Brought to you by the letters X and U and the number 17.
"It makes my nipples hard!"
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer of Gimp and Nethack -- http://www.debian.org/



From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Sat Mar 23 04:42:54 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:42:54 GMT
Subject: C++ Embedding Problem - Import Error
Message-ID: <3C9C4D48.7010000@SPAMnwinternet.com>

I'm building a plugin module (basically a dynamic library)
under Linux that embeds Python. It links fine and using
PyRun_SimpleFile I can load and run scripts. The scripts
work fine when I import a module (.so) generated with
sip from my own C++ libraries. Where it fails is when
I want to import a non-built-in Python module (in this
case I'm trying 'import time' in the script).

The script fails at runtime with:

ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/timemodule.so:
     undefined symbol: PyExc_IOError

nm says that PyExc_IOError is in libplugin.so as type 'B'
(global, uninitialized data section).

I can also reference the undefined symbol from within my own
C++ code without a problem. I'm using libtool and have
included the switches the Python docs say are required for
all symbols to be exported:

plugin_la_LDFLAGS = -avoid-version -module -no-undefined\
     -Xlinker -export-dynamic

Just to be clear, I'm linking libpython into another .so
lib that's dlopened by an app. There is no possibility of
linking Python directly with the app (or I wouldn't be
writing a plugin in the first place).

Anybody have an idea of what's going on and if/how this
can be fixed?

Jim



From tripps81 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 23:19:44 2002
From: tripps81 at yahoo.com (Tripp Scott)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:19:44 +0700
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203241630560.15622-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324115311.0457dbb8@202.95.131.154>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325111055.044fbd08@202.95.131.154>

At 25/03/2002 07:37, brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> >   [SOMETHING for x in 1,2,3]
> >
> > and without using side effects like this?
> >
> >   result=[]
> >   [(result.append(x), result.append(x+1.1)) for x in 1,2,3]
>
>You gotta give us more info on the 1,2,3 part. Does that just represent
>a sequence of integers? If so, you can go with something like:
>
> >>> lo, hi = 1, 3
> >>> [x/2 + 0.1*(x%2) for x in xrange(lo*2, (hi+1)*2)]

thanks for the tip. actually, the essence of what i wanted to 
ask was: "can that SOMETHING be a list of more than one elements 
which will be _flatly_ added to the result list." as another 
example, can i generate this list

  [1,1  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4]

with a list comprehension that contains one 'for' clause?

t




From lgrossi at bigpond.net.au  Sun Mar 17 06:15:07 2002
From: lgrossi at bigpond.net.au (Luca Grossi)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:15:07 GMT
Subject: Python using EditPlus
Message-ID: <%U_k8.5513$Hz2.19187@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hello everyone ,

                         I'm sorry if this question has been asked before
but could anyone give me instructions on how to debug and interpret python
scripts using Edit Plus ? I download the python modules for edit plus so it
recognise the syntax. But how do I setup the user tools , so I can check for
bugs in the script and run it J

Thanks Luca





From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar 13 08:59:24 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:59:24 +0000
Subject: MySQL Library or Interface?
In-Reply-To: <dIHj8.24208$nw3.3259904@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>
References: <dIHj8.24208$nw3.3259904@typhoon1.se.ipsvc.net>
Message-ID: <20020313135924.GC12560@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 12:35:21PM +0000, Stephen Cox wrote:
> Is there a MySQL library or some kind of framewrok available for Python?

http://sf.net/projects/mysql-python/

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From python at dejazzd.com  Mon Mar 18 14:26:33 2002
From: python at dejazzd.com (Glenn Stauffer)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:26:33 -0500
Subject: dealing with paths, multiple OS versions, cgi's
Message-ID: <20020318192717.6A92617E88@juniper.its.swarthmore.edu>

I have a cgi program that accepts an uploaded file through a web form and 
then attaches that file to an email message.  I've run into a problem in 
testing that I haven't yet found a solution for and am hoping that someone 
could steer me in the right direction.

When a file is uploaded through certain browsers - like the AOL web browser - 
the form['file'].filename value is a path.

>From a Windows browser, the path will be something like 
c:\temp\file.doc

>From a Unix browser, it might be: /home/user/file.doc

Now, the CGI runs on a linux server, so os.path.basename() will return the 
base filename for the files being uploaded from a unix browser, but they will 
not properly handle the files being uploaded from a Windows browser.

What I need is some method for stripping off the basename regardless of the 
browser OS.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Glenn



From mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu  Thu Mar 14 12:39:12 2002
From: mlerner at asteroids.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Michael George Lerner)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:39:12 GMT
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
References: <mailman.1016065525.9745.python-list@python.org> <umbsdr8kmj.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>
Message-ID: <4f5k8.435$zT5.13755@news.itd.umich.edu>

I wanted to match this:

(?P<foo>foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo)

without typing in all of the different combinations of 'foo' and spaces.

(Tim kindly pointed out the typos in the above, which I've corrected)

Mats Kindahl <matkin at iar.se> wrote:

> Depending on the definition of easy, this is the alternative I would
> use. 

> 	r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
> 	
> Of course, your milage may wary.

Doesn't quite work for me:

>>> import re
>>> r = re.compile(r'(?P<foo>(?=.{7}) *foo *)')
>>> s = r.match('foo         ').groupdict()['foo']
>>> s
'foo         '
>>> len(s)
12
>>> 

and I only want to match things that are seven characters long here.

It does, however, match all of the correct seven character strings, 
and I'll have to remember that trick in the future.  Thanks!

-michael


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar  5 14:46:19 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:46:19 -0800
Subject: PEP 262 (database of installed Python packages)
References: <3wgg8.685$Qo2.70120@news02.tsnz.net>
Message-ID: <3C85208B.70951F13@ccvcorp.com>


Andy Elvey wrote:

> Hi all.
>   I've just been mulling over this (_very_ good and welcome!) PEP.  In fact,
> this suggestion is _so good_  that I'd like to "widen" it somewhat.   Allow
> me to explain .... (and please forgive the slight diversion past "Rubyland"
> .... :-)
>   I've spent a _frustrating_ amount of time with a _Ruby_ package that can't
> find various files.  Now, I knew about PEP 262, so I was thinking in general
> terms,  it would be *truly* wonderful if there were a (standard?) database
> of  *all*  installed packages (Python, Ruby, and whatever else) - maybe in a
> directory called "search".   In Linux, this could be "/search" ,  in Win32
> "C:\search".

If I understand correctly what you're proposing, I'm not sure what this would
gain.  You want a single database which describes all installed modules/packages
for Python *and* Ruby *and* etc... ??  How does this "integration" benefit?

Your Ruby packages don't do Python any good.  Your Python packages don't do Ruby
any good.  Putting them all in the same place just makes it easier to confuse
things.  (Hm, is that 'serial' directory for Python or Ruby?)

While it might be beneficial for Ruby to have a parallel database, that follows
the same general pattern as Python's, I can't see the gain for making them be
the *same* database.  Especially since separating them makes it possible for
Ruby to use a different scheme, that it more appropriate to Ruby, and let Python
use a scheme customized to Python, instead of both making compromises to
accomodate the other.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 18:24:22 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:24:22 -0500
Subject: Python/Linux
Message-ID: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Hey all.  Just got my Linux web server system Linux ready.  Moving on to
Apache configuration in a bit.  Note, I'm a long-time Windoze developer but
a 3-day old Linux newbie (Suse 7.3 Pro, last Friday night.  Already up and
running and loving it.)

I'd like to know which Web site development tool you like the best, because
I'm going to assume that you're using one that integrates well with Python.
Bear in mind that I'm one of those who like to be spoiled by a nice WYSIWIG
IDE if possible. Here's is the choice list I've built up after surfing much,
post much, and reading much replies:

Quanta
Bluefish
PHP (Will I need to learn this or any other scripting lang if I'm using
Python for all my custom site stuff?)
Open Office's HTML tool
Delph/Kylix with perhaps kbmWABD (I'm Delphi prog'er too)
IBM's WebSphere home page builder (yes I know it cost a little)

Really appreciate your input.

thx

P.S. - All of you that get the BBC channel and did not watch the Python
marathon last night, shame (and spam) on you! :)






From slzatz at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 26 21:47:41 2002
From: slzatz at hotmail.com (Steve Zatz)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 18:47:41 -0800
Subject: radiobutton menu item problem
Message-ID: <6747bc9d.0203261847.5c56c42b@posting.google.com>

On W2K and XP, when I run Tkinter programs with radiobutton menu
items, the
check mark is only partially visible until I roll the mouse over the
selected menu item. To be clear, the menu item was selected
previously, however
when you return to that menu, the selected menu item only has a
partially
visible check until you move the cursor over the item.  And when you
do
bring the check mark 'to life' by rolling the cursor over it, the
check mark
overwrites most of the first letter of the menu text.

Has anyone seen this?  I realize the problem is more aesthetic than
fatal,
but would like to fix if possible.  I am using whatever version of
Tkinter
and Tcl/Tk came with the standard Python 2.2 Windows release.


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 08:35:11 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:35:11 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] RE: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 04:35:32 EST."
             <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> 
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> 
Message-ID: <200203301335.g2UDZB601508@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> > How will bool influence '__nonzero__'? Currently, Python insists that
> > '__nonzero__ should return an int'. Will this be changed to 'should
> > return a bool'?
> 
> I hope so.

Actually, it doesn't matter.  This is only called by C code that must
then return a *C* 0 or 1, and this code is entirely oblivious to the
difference between int and bool.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 16:29:06 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:29:06 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF7B36DD44.8FAE1D46-ON88256B72.00748030@i2.com>

[Jeff Hinrichs]
> How can one iterate over something that is not a
> sequence/collection?

By defining the method __iter__(self) to return an iterator object <wink>.
Iterators are very useful and general-purpose.  No need to confine them
just to sequences.


> I haven't seen any argument on why range/xrange is less preferrable to
iterable integers.

The advantage that iter(n) has over range(n) and xrange(n) is that Python
calls iter automatically.


> I've heard the philosophical debate but not seen how python
> would be better for this addition.  If a good, tangible case
> were made I could be influenced.
> It would have to be a stronger case than:
> for i in 5:  is better than   for i in range(5):
>     print i                       print i

Please refer to the PEP.  There is a "rationale" section.  "for i in 5"
happens to work and I would wager would become popular when typing into the
intepreter, for example.  But, it is not the motivating example in the PEP.


> **Not everything is an object.**

Fortunately, in Python it is <wink>.


> Numbers don't perform operations

... and they can <wink>

>>> -3 .__abs__()
-3
>>>


> It is not natural to consider a number as a collection of other
> numbers.

So don't consider that.  Just consider whether or not it would be useful to
get an iterator from a number <wink>.

Jim



From jlh at cox.net  Tue Mar 26 23:26:04 2002
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:26:04 GMT
Subject: What am I doing wrong with urllib.urlopen() ?
References: <11e94203.0203191617.46008366@posting.google.com> <a78th1$djn$0@216.39.172.122> <11e94203.0203232201.4dde9883@posting.google.com> <20020324081829.193$iP@news.newsreader.com> <11e94203.0203261527.89fb2ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wRbo8.111148$7B2.2331324@news1.east.cox.net>

curl/libcurl
http://curl.haxx.se/
with pycurl
http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/

hth
-jeff

"Jose Rivera" <jriveramerla at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11e94203.0203261527.89fb2ca at posting.google.com...
> >>Is there a better way?
> > A better way of what? I missed the original post.
>
> I mean a better way of fetching the info from the Web Page, I like
> Python, but if anyone knows of any utiliy that can download that pages
> automatically to text files... that would be great. Because it would
> be more easy for me to process the info in Python from files saved on
> disk, than from WEB PAGES.
>
> Taking in account that this is the first time I am using urllib
> library.
>
> Thanks...




From sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com  Sun Mar 17 16:34:48 2002
From: sumner-nntp5 at forceovermass.com (G. Sumner Hayes)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:34:48 GMT
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com> <just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <oePl8kKkX4hO092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1016398831.924.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YZ7l8.31$Ke.12574@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

In article <mailman.1016398831.924.python-list at python.org>, Mike Dean wrote:
> One thing that's always baffled me on this issue (along these lines) -
> why does Python have != as a not-equal operator, when ! is not the not
> operator?

Even in C, I never thought of != as being the not operator applied to
the assignment operator.  I thought of it as an ASCII art approximation
of the "real" not equal symbol (= with a line running through it).

! is the closest thing to a vertical line on older keyboards (/= and |=
are already assignment operators), and represents the vertical stroke
through the equal sign.  Like the accent marks in TeX and similar.

Just my $.02,

  Sumner

-- 
rage, rage against the dying of the light

Usenet email address changes periodically.  sumner-nntp at forceovermass
period com is more permanent.


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Fri Mar  1 17:41:07 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 14:41:07 -0800
Subject: Rotor in Jython?
References: <mailman.1014909888.790.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr8n329oc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> writes:
> Put another way: sorting by key length, AES beats rotors hands down.
> Sorting by computational cost, rotors always win because you can just make
> the keys longer (without having to reimplement your crypto).

Longer keys are only relevant if breaking the cipher requires searching
for the key.


From mxp at dynalabs.de  Wed Mar  6 19:41:04 2002
From: mxp at dynalabs.de (Michael Piotrowski)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 01:41:04 +0100
Subject: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20 does not work
References: <mailman.1014671543.6120.python-list@python.org>
 <3C848CBF.9000201@vip.fi> <j4664b73qp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <3C84F129.70905@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <x64rjt43bz.fsf@hyperion.mii.dynalabs.de>

pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> writes:

> True, HP-UX's default compiler is only meant for compliling the kernel
> therefore  I installed  binutils v2.11.2,  gcc v3.01 and gmake v3.79.1 from
> HP's software repository and tried compiling with this script:
>
> #! /usr/bin/sh
> export CCOPTS='+z'
> unset LANG
> gmake distclean
> CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-threads=no --without-cxx
> --prefix=/opt/python

Just a note: The CCOPTS environment variable is only used by HP's ANSI
C compiler, gcc doesn't use it.

> gmake fails twice:
>
> 1)
> /osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getaddrinfo.c:544:
> warning: `h_error' might be used uninitialized in this funcn

[...]

Use -D_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED to get the definition of h_error.

> ld -b build/temp.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_cursesmodule.o
> -L/usr/local/lib -lncurses -o
> build/lib.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_curl
> ld: DP relative code in file /usr/local/lib/libncurses.a(lib_addch.o)
> -
> shared library must be position
>     independent.  Use +z or +Z to recompile.
> WARNING: building of extension "_curses" failed: command 'ld' failed
> with exit status 1

The ncurses library must either be a shared library, or it must
contain only position-independent code.

Thus, you need to rebuild ncurses with the appropriate options: +z for
the HP ANSI C compiler, -fpic for gcc.

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at dynalabs.de>


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 15:36:35 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 21:36:35 +0100
Subject: SAX-Parser entity
References: <a5nt0b$pta$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <m3k7swrpnw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

fabi.kreutz at gmx.de writes:

> I spend the last 3 hours browsing FAQs and Mailinglist - without success -
> but have nevertheless the feeling, that this is a very easy question:

It is indeed very easy: There is an error in your document. It has no
encoding declaration in the xml header. The parser rightfully rejects
it.

Regards,
Martin



From carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com  Wed Mar 13 12:57:50 2002
From: carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com (Mike Carifio)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:57:50 GMT
Subject: augmented arithmetic operations
References: <Zv8j8.6678$26.622125@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <yqMj8.6822$26.709139@typhoon.maine.rr.com>

I asked the question badly and even botched the example.
Worst yet, I could have answered it for myself if I had read
the documentation a little better.

It appears that you get a simple, but useful "automatic" implementation
of __iadd__ if you've already defined __add__ (and __isub__ for __sub__
and so forth). If you decide, for whatever reason, that you'd like to
override that default, you can do so. In fact, the doc's recommendation
is to try to update self  "in place" without making intermediates and then
return the result. Which is pretty cool, actually, because you can get
your class up and running then improve it's performance at some
later date.

Blame it on newbie impatience.




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 19:57:03 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8dedk.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
 Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

> Fine, don't like range(n-1,-1,-1) and don't feel like taking the <60s to
> look it up?  I give you:
> 
> foo = range(n-1,0)
> foo.reverse()
> for x in foo:
>     do_whatcha_like(x)
> 
>     Still too obtuse for you?

I think you have made my point for me, that range is hard to use 
correctly.  Did you try running range(n-1,0)?  What list did it give you?


From mszigety at cisco.com  Fri Mar 29 09:12:08 2002
From: mszigety at cisco.com (Mark Szigety)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:12:08 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2 chr representation errors with embedded C
Message-ID: <000701c1d72b$b6a50c40$02ff1a42@peanut>

Hello,

I have recently made the upgrade to Python 2.2 from 1.5.2.  In the
Python application which I develop, we have several embedded C
functions, one of which is a simple function to convert a hex string to
octal--it simply chars each byte and returns the new buffer.  However, I
have noticed a 0.01% error rate in Python 2.2 which I did not see in
Python 1.5.2 (it was 100% accurate).  That is, 1 out of 10,000 hex
strings will be converted incorrectly in the C function, usually one
byte is returned as \x00 instead of what is should be.  I also have
noticed that in Python 2.2, chr(0xff) returns \xff instead of \377 in
Python 1.5.2.  Could this be the source of the communication breakdown?

I should mention that writing a similar conversion function totally in
Python is 100% accurate in Python 2.2 as well as Python 1.5.2, although
it is an order of magnitude slower.

Any information about the apparent source of this issue would be
appreciated!

Thanks,
Mark





From t.kloppenburg at billiton.de  Wed Mar 27 09:47:40 2002
From: t.kloppenburg at billiton.de (Tjabo Kloppenburg)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:47:40 +0100
Subject: list element of a class with the for statement
In-Reply-To: <just-5CA804.15235426032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1017132640.22480.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1017150220.26266.python-list@python.org> <just-5CA804.15235426032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <E16qEiD-0007LA-00@mail.python.org>

hi Just,

> But with the way you wrote the new-style iterator it won't. It's also
> not thread-safe.

Why wouldn't it work? I haven't tested the code, but I think it's the right 
way.
I've seen this in http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/index.html, "3 PEP 234: 
Iterators".

>
Python classes can define an __iter__() method, which should create and 
return a new iterator for the object; if the object is its own iterator, this 
method can just return self. In particular, iterators will usually be their 
own iterators. Extension types implemented in C can implement a tp_iter 
function in order to return an iterator, and extension types that want to 
behave as iterators can define a tp_iternext function.

So, after all this, what do iterators actually do? They have one required 
method, next(), which takes no arguments and returns the next value. When 
there are no more values to be returned, calling next() should raise the 
StopIteration exception. 
>


How can I do it thread safe?


Willing to learn, :-)
tk.



From les_ander at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 21:41:23 2002
From: les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 18:41:23 -0800
Subject: why is python slow?
Message-ID: <a2972632.0203071841.7cd09181@posting.google.com>

Hi,
i am just curious as to why different programming languages have different
speed. I understand that if a language has an extensive grammar
(such as c++) the compiler would take longer. But what about execution?
why is a perl program faster than similar python program? For example
when java came out it use to be pretty slow, but now it is pretty fast. How
was this speed-up acheived and why is it not possible to have such a speed up
for python?

thanks 
les

P.S. I am just trying to understand and do not intend to put down python by 
any means.


From landshark at verticaladdiction.net  Fri Mar  1 00:16:31 2002
From: landshark at verticaladdiction.net (Dave Marotti)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:16:31 -0000
Subject: what does this do? (really basic question)
Message-ID: <slrna7u3n3.tqi.landshark@burrito.verticaladdiction.net>

Hey,

Hopefully this is a really basic question.  I'm still in the learning phase,
and came across this in a sample program:

class Whatever:
    def __init__(self, user_list, cmd_list, **kw):
        code....

What does the **kw mean (specifically, the **) ?

-dave


-- 
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Dave Marotti                | Looking for a Visio alternative for *nix?    |
| lndshark ! speakeasy net    | Kivio : http://thekompany.com/projects/kivio |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| I just don't trust anything | I suppose that in a few more hours I will    |
| that bleeds for 5 days and  | sober up. That's such a sad thought. I think |
| doesn't die. - Mr. Garrison | I'll have a few more drinks to prepare myself|
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+



From guido at python.org  Sun Mar 31 21:35:47 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:35:47 GMT
Subject: __name__ on new-style classes
References: <stcfaugkbh0u65d1euuofhs2b69ej7i34h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7C873.D1AC908A@python.org>

"Gon?alo Rodrigues" wrote:
> 
> One can change the name of a classic class but not of a new-style one
> (see below for example). Is this a bug or a feature, and if the latter
> is there any reason for the change?

It's a feature.  The reason for the change is that I've never seen an
example of a use for it (as opposed to changing an instance's __class__).
If you have one, let us know.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From psage at ncaustin.com  Wed Mar 27 10:27:44 2002
From: psage at ncaustin.com (Paul Sage)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:27:44 -0600
Subject: menu.add_command options
Message-ID: <03F53405C6ED434A986221919785A6A7106BEB@nca-postal.ncaustin.com>

Tkinter:
In the line:

file_menu.add_command(label='Load Form', underline=0,
command=self.open_file)

Does anyone have a list of options that go with the menu.add_command?  I
need to pass the frame to the method open_file, but I don't know how to
pass that as an argument.  The book I have Python and Tkinter
programming just says "options..."  While I am all for a good mystery,
it is somewhat disheartening to find in a $50+ book.  






From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Mar 15 19:47:54 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 03:47:54 +0300
Subject: locale module broken?
In-Reply-To: <m3r8mls78p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>; from martin@v.loewis.de on Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 01:09:58AM +0100
References: <3C928042.BA50A5B3@snakefarm.org> <m3r8mls78p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020316034754.A4163@phd.pp.ru>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 01:09:58AM +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Carsten Gaebler <clpy at snakefarm.org> writes:
> 
> > while playing around with Greg Lindstrom's "Pretty integers" (see his
> > posting), my Python 2.2 got stuck here:
> > 
> > >>> import locale
> > >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "fr_FR")
> > 'fr_FR'
> > >>> locale.format("%.1f", 12345.5, 1)
> > 
> > It runs forever. This is on RedHat 6.2 and Debian Potato. Any hints?
> 
> I can't reproduce this, with Python 2.3a0 on a SuSE 7.2 system: it
> prints '12345,5'. If you care somewhat about this problem, submit a
> bug report to SF. If you care a lot, please investigate.

   I reproduced this behviour on Debian 2.2 with all version of Python -
2.0, 2.1 amd 2.2... but only with FR locale. With ru_RU locale it works
perfectly. It seems glibc has got broken FR locale.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 25 10:49:45 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:49:45 +0000
Subject: Root access with python
In-Reply-To: <20020325123855.A1716@ibook.distro.conectiva>
References: <d906b2c1.0203250237.60f6ad12@posting.google.com> <7x663krjtp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <a7ndu9$bme$1@panix1.panix.com> <20020325123855.A1716@ibook.distro.conectiva>
Message-ID: <20020325154945.GD22091@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 12:38:55PM -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:

> You have several options to do this, and all of them involve setting the
> setuid bit in some executable. OTOH, setting setuid bit on scripts
> usually doesn't work. If that's your case, you'll have to freeze your
> script into a native executable, or build some kind of wrapper. Google
> for "setuid bit scripts" for more information.

As a general solution to this kind of problem, sudo is excellent,
though it might be overkill for this particular case.

http://www.courtesan.com/sudo/

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar 13 15:00:57 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:00:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Newbie regex question.
In-Reply-To: <octeliocn7p.fsf@nerd-xing.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020313120057.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 13-Mar-2002 Omri Schwarz wrote:
> 
> I have a regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
> and want to search a string I know to have multiple 
> instances of this regex. I'm a tad confused by
> the RE Howto, so I'd like to ask, how do I properly 
> get a for loop to access the widget1 and widget2 
> strings of each instance?
> 
> for instance in regex.search(string).groups() 
> seems to be the right thing, but isn't working.
> 

>>> import re
>>> s= 'yadda widget1 widget2 yadda'
>>> regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
>>> for match in regex.search(s).groups(): print match
... 
widget1
widget2

This works here.  Although I would strongly caution you to do:

re_match = regex.search(s)
if re_match != None ......

just in case the regex fails.



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 21:51:15 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:51:15 GMT
Subject: Popular style document?
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <slrna9htdq.5dl.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C9A797E.E6476BEE@spam.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <D_wm8.98888$1g.8095876@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Bj?rn Lindberg" <d95-bli.no at spam.nada.kth.se> wrote in message
news:3C9A797E.E6476BEE at spam.nada.kth.se...
> phil hunt wrote:
>
> > IMO the requirement to say self everywhere in methods is the worst
> > feature of python.
>
> How come Python doesn't have an "automatic" this-variable, like C++
or
> Java?

Short answer: the language has to work together as a whole.

If you mean requirement to say def meth(something, arg) instead of def
meth(arg), compiler does not necesarily know when compiling whether
function will be used as method or not.  (Methods can be defined
outside of class statement and assigned as method later.)

If you mean requirement to say something.var instead of var, how else
would you write equivalent of self.arg = arg within method?

Terry J. Reedy





From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Thu Mar 28 15:00:11 2002
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:00:11 -0800
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
References: <001d01c1d67f$2eb81090$445d4540@Dell2>
Message-ID: <3CA3764B.C46C7FD2@activestate.com>

Brian Quinlan wrote:

> I bet that after ActivePython 2.2 comes out, future releases will become
> available in a more timely fashion.

Spoken like someone who's worked with Trent for a while.  =)

FYI: 

  ActivePython 2.2 is shipping imminently (really!)

  ActivePython 2.2.1 and 2.1.2 will ship soon thereafter.

Thanks for all the interest in ActivePython.  We hope to not have these
kinds of delays in the future.

-- David Ascher



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar 29 23:46:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 04:46:45 GMT
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (new proposal):
References: <mailman.1017347282.22449.python-list@python.org> <cfcf4b0d.0203291435.d35e21c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a83fvl$t6n$0@216.39.172.122>

On 29 Mar 2002 14:35:25 -0800, Ken.Peek at Engineer.com (Ken Peek) wrote:
[... summary of attributed quotes ...]
>[Bengt Richter]:
>"case:  Don't like it.  We already have means to do what a case does
>and do it more elegantly.  It would add a needless redundant portion
>to the language."
>
That wasn't I. This quotes me better ;-)

----
Kind of like it, but there would have to be some hot
performance advantage. IMO the aesthetics aren't that
much different from the above.[1]

I definitiely wouldn't like break and continue to mean new things!
---
         ^--[sic]
[1] (Referring to if/elif/else code using a condition-evaluating functor
holding the switch value).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Tue Mar 12 12:31:24 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:31:24 -0600
Subject: new to python  - please help
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D6893A@SRM201002>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owen_stevens at hotmail.com [mailto:owen_stevens at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Martes, 12 de Marzo de 2002 11:16 a.m.
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: new to python - please help
> 
> I made a dictionary with the following structure:
> 


Damn, he got caught by the PSU *just* when he



From cfelling at iae.nl  Mon Mar  4 18:52:21 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 00:52:21 +0100
Subject: Newbie ?:A more concise way?
References: <8fc4b19e.0203031804.75d303a3@posting.google.com> <a5um79$ict$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <8fc4b19e.0203040130.17140530@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a611bl$44i$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Brian <brian at lodoss.org> wrote:
> Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message news:<a5um79$ict$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl>...
>>     >>> class MyClass: pass
>>     >>> z = map(lambda x: C(), range(3))
...
> I'm happy with the performance of the expression too; I'm using a
> similar map expression as an argument to Numeric.array() now and it
> works very well for me.

If it's performance and not code obfuscation you're after, maybe you'd
better spent some time on profiling it.

My gut feelings (and those are usualy wrong:) tell my to fear the lambda
here as it introduces an extra function call (expensive in Python) for
each instance to be made.

-- 
groetjes, carel


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 17 23:30:52 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:30:52 -0500
Subject: sunstring
References: <0r4l8.22204$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3C94DCC1.748EDC18@engcorp.com> <NF8l8.27530$Vx1.2360493@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C956D7C.401360DB@engcorp.com>

Billy Ng wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > Billy Ng wrote:
> > >
> > > Would anybody tell me how to do substring in python?
> >
> > Use slices.  And look at the string module.
> > Have you gone through the tutorials yet?
> 
> No, sir!  I am very very new to python.  I just bought the O'Reilly book
> today.

Then I gently suggest you make a small effort to read at _least_ 
the online tutorial, or skim through that book, before attempting 
to write real code.  When you have a particular goal in mind
(as I know you do) _and_ you have made a moderate effort to solve
the problem on your own but encounter some difficulty, _then_
please ask away in this newsgroup.

And _always_ post code snippets representing your best effort 
so we can understand what you've already tried (and that you
_have_ tried) and our answers will be that much more helpful
(and plentiful).

Cheers,
-Peter


From marduk at python.net  Sun Mar 17 18:52:58 2002
From: marduk at python.net (marduk)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 17:52:58 -0600
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-9D71CE.13283417032002@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org>
	<iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
	<ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com>
	<just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.1016396564.27134.python-list@python.org> 
	<eppstein-9D71CE.13283417032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1016409179.5343.5.camel@berkowitz>

I've always wondered why you couldn't say "not ==" (as well as "not <",
etc.) like you can say "not in" or "not x" since that seems to make more
sense to me.

--m





 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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From emmanuelgagniere at wanadoo.fr  Sat Mar 30 05:46:13 2002
From: emmanuelgagniere at wanadoo.fr (Emmanuelgagniere)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:46:13 +0100
Subject: wxPython install problems on linux
References: <da8db604.0203242126.267ab032@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a8452e$3a7$1@wanadoo.fr>

I can't say where your error is coming from... but I can say you how I
installed wxPython on my mandrake 8.0

1. Install from source python 2.2
2. Install gtk
3. Install wxGTK2.3.2
4. Install wxPython2.3.2.1 (check the install at
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/Getting_20Started#line57)

it should works

manouche


hejduk <claxtonr at beer.com> a ?crit dans le message :
da8db604.0203242126.267ab032 at posting.google.com...
> Hi, I'm having a problem installing wxPython on linux (Slak 8). I have
> all the necesarry prerequisites (wxGTK, python etc). When I run the
> setup.py build script half way through i get the following error
> messages:
>
> running build_ext
> building 'wxc' extension
> ...
> src/helpers.cpp:26: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
> src/helpers.cpp:27: gdk/gdkprivate.h: No such file or directory
> In file included from src/helpers.cpp:28:
> /usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:18: gdk/gdk.h: No such file or
> directory
> /usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:19: gdk/gdkx.h: No such file or
> directory
> /usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:20: gtk/gtkcontainer.h: No such
> file or directory
> /usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:21: gtk/gtkadjustment.h: No such
> file or directory
> /usr/local/include/wx/gtk/win_gtk.h:22: gtk/gtkfeatures.h: No such
> file or directory
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>
>
> Not surprisingly when I try to run any of the demo programs I get an
> error message about no wxc module. I know this is kind of specific and
> obscure but if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks.




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sat Mar 30 04:36:43 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 01:36:43 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xhemy1jo4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:
>     Dear reviewers:
> 
>     I'm particularly interested in hearing your opinion about the
>     following three issues:
> 
>     1) Should this PEP be accepted at all.

I don't see much need for it.  There's no need to turn Python into Java.
Python, C, and Lisp have all done fine without bools.  What kinds of
programming tasks in Python are bools supposed to make easier?

>     Some external libraries (like databases and RPC packages) need to
>     be able to distinguish between Boolean and integral values, and
>     while it's usually possible to craft a solution, it would be
>     easier if the language offered a standard Boolean type.

Again, most of those libraries have C interfaces and (pre-C99) C
didn't have bools.  I could imagine adding some kind of bool objects
in a loadable class for purposes like this, but don't see a need for
them to pervade the language.  Enums or symbols would be more useful
than bools.

>     Here are some arguments derived from teaching Python.  When
>     showing people comparison operators etc. in the interactive shell,
>     I think this is a bit ugly:
> 
>         >>> a = 13
>         >>> b = 12
>         >>> a > b
>         1

Nah, if there's one thing everyone knows about computers, it's that
they use 1's and 0's to represent truth values.

>     There's also the issue (which I've seen puzzling even experienced
>     Pythonistas who had been away from the language for a while) that if
>     you see:
> 
>         >>> cmp(a, b)
>         1
>         >>> cmp(a, a)
>         0
>         >>> 
> 
>     you might be tempted to believe that cmp() also returned a truth
>     value.  If ints are not (normally) used for Booleans results, this
>     would stand out much more clearly as something completely
>     different.

If cmp returns a boolean, it can no longer distinguish the 3 cases
a < b, a == b, or a > b.  That is seriously broken.  


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Mar 13 04:27:21 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:27:21 +0000
Subject: sorting nested dictionary
References: <dcuj8.9914$k5.3664995@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F1B79.8000607@mxm.dk>

dsavitsk wrote:


> i would like to sort this portion by 'weighted'.  is there a quick (as in
> programming time, not sorting time) better way to do this other than dumping
> the values to a list, sorting, and realigning the data?  that seems so
> unpythonic to me somehow.

How do you mean "sort" a dictionary? A dictionary will allways return 
the items in a random order.

What you mean is probably that you want a list of keys that are sorted 
according to the value of weighted?

Then you just create a list of tuples with the values you want to sort 
on first, and the key in the end of the tuple. This list you sort with 
the built in 'sort()'

untested:

dict = {'ids': {'2778xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.6, 'raw': 5.0},
          '3059xxxxx': {'weighted': 6.1, 'raw': 6.0},
          '3188xxxxx': {'weighted': 3.2, 'raw': 4.0},
          '3216xxxxx': {'weighted': 10.1, 'raw': 7.0},
          '3257xxxxx': {'weighted': 9.7, 'raw': 9.0},
          '3266xxxxx': {'weighted': 4.8, 'raw': 3.0},}}

sortedList = []
for key, val in dict['ids'].items():
     sortedList.append((val['weighted'],key))
sortedList.sort()
sortedKeys = [item[1] for item in sortedList]

regards Max M



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 17:55:04 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:55:04 +0000
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <MPG.170e8d686c5d8561989683@news.nwlink.com> <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaacgi8.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:16:27 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Jeff Shannon wrote:
>> 
>> In article <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
>> robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk says...
>> > Is there some special reason why python inhibits string copying. I
>> > suppose there's some attempt being made to make these constants. To make
>> > differing versions of 'abc' one has to resort to silliness like 'ab'+'c'
>> 
>> 1) Strings are immutable.  This implies that there is zero
>> practical difference between two references to two separate
>> string objects of identical value, and two references to the same
>> string object.
>
>The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
>common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
>quickly by something like:
>
>a = [0] * 1000000
>for i in xrange(1000000):
>    a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'

Simpler is range(1000000)


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Mar 15 12:35:43 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:35:43 GMT
Subject: Using HTMLHelp files with win32all-146 for Python22
Message-ID: <3c922e49.11703328@news.t-online.de>

The only thing I really miss from the ActiveState build of Python was
the fine helpfiles they had. Looking up things in that HTML stuff
sucks! And it gets worse when you install VPython, which replaces
index.html with its own docs. 

Anyway, the official Python website has the docs in HTMLHelp format:

http://www.python.org/ftp/python/doc/2.2/html-help-2.2.chm

So now only to change Pythonwin to use them. First I hacked
pythonwin/framework/help.py, but the recommended way is probably this:
In the registry, in

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Python\PythonCore\2.2\Help\Main Python
Documentation

edit the variable to point to the .chm file rather than the
index.html. That works! Now I only hope this isn't spelled out in
large fonts somewhere in the doc & therefor obvious ;)



From infinitystwin.SPAM at IS.BAD.yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 18:08:15 2002
From: infinitystwin.SPAM at IS.BAD.yahoo.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:08:15 -0600
Subject: ConfigParser -> Section name through Option value
References: <3CA375B1.9070802@flexis.de>
Message-ID: <a807c4019a9@enews1.newsguy.com>

"domi" <dk at flexis.de> wrote in message news:3CA375B1.9070802 at flexis.de...
> Hi,
>
> can somebody help me with this ConfigParser (ini-file) problem:
> Is it possible to get a Section name through an Option value
> (ConfigParser), e.g.:
>
> [foo]
> name = python
> ...
>
> how can I get the section name 'foo' through the option value 'python'?
> Any idea???
>
> thanks dominik

The problem is that 'python' may be the value for any number of options in
any number of sections.
If you have:

[foo]
name = python
snake = python

[bar]
name = perl
snake = python
name = java

Which one do you want? I would loop through each section, then through each
option. Something like this:

results = []
for section in cp.sections():
    for option in cp.options(section):
        if cp.get(section, option) == 'python':
            results.append((section, option))

Now you have a list of section\option pairs.






From suca at manning.com  Tue Mar 19 13:55:52 2002
From: suca at manning.com (Susan Capparelle)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:55:52 -0500
Subject: Python Proposal Review
Message-ID: <v04220809b8bd3961a5cd@[192.168.1.101]>

Hi,

We're a high quality computer book publisher seeking reviewers for a 
book proposal we currently have in hand tentatively titled, 
"Effective Python."

We're seeking 3-6 people to review this proposal and make comments 
that will help us make a decision on whether or not to publish.  The 
proposal and outline are approximately 969 words in length.

If you are interested in this opportunity, or can recommend someone 
who might be qualified and willing, please feel free to contact us.

Thanks in advance!

Sincerely,


Susan Capparelle
Assistant Publisher
Manning Publications Co.
=======================================
Susan W. Capparelle
Assistant Publisher
Manning Publications Co.
209 Bruce Park Avenue, Greenwich, CT 06830
suca at manning.com
tel. 203.629.2211   www.manning.com
fax. 203.629.2084
=======================================



From edream at tds.net  Sun Mar  3 22:23:50 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:23:50 GMT
Subject: The Text Widget
References: <5Hzg8.72869$vP.290047@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <3C82E8C4.24531DE7@tds.net>

> I would like to know how to make it so that whenever I insert some text into
> the text widget from inside my program, it is inserted on a new line?

I am assuming you mean Tk text widgets interfaced with Tkinter.  I
believe you can do just about anything with Tkinter, and it may take a
bit of hacking due to missing events and other strangenesses in Tk. 
I'll answer generally here, not being sure of your situation.

First, note that if you bind to a key-press (<Key>) event, when the
event handler is called the Text widget hasn't been changed yet(!) 
Other frameworks provide a "text will change" event and a "text did
change" event, but AFAIK Tk does not.

You could use the "insert" mark or selection to determine where the
keypress would go, but that gets messy in a hurry.  To get around this,
you can use the after_idle tkinter routine to schedule an action that
will be taken _after_ the text is changed.  You can then munge the text
as needed.  BTW, Tk does a good job of suppressing flashes, so this
approach works well.

There are many ways besides "general" key presses (<Key> bindings) that
can cause text to change.  You may want to provide wrappers for your
idle-time code that allow command handlers to indicate that the text has
been changed or is about to be changed.

For examples of how to do lots of things with Tk/tkinter Text widgets,
take a look at Leo's event handlers in leoTree.py: OnBodyKey,
onBodyChanged, onBodyWillChange and idle_body_key.  Leo does lots of
things on every keystroke, including syntax coloring, undo, auto indent,
updating dirty marks etc.  Auto-indent is probably most similar to what
you want.  Note that the bindings themselves are set in leoFrame.py and
in leoTree.py.

Hope this helps.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From bforney at cs.wisc.edu  Wed Mar 13 17:44:36 2002
From: bforney at cs.wisc.edu (Brian Forney)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:44:36 -0600
Subject: Statically linking standard Python modules into an application
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203131523520.19507-100000@marmot.cs.wisc.edu>

Hello,

I have embedded a Python interpreter into an application I wrote. The
application sometimes uses the standard Python modules, such as sys,
depending on the script it executes and loads them dynamically. This solution
works well most of the time.

It does not work well in distributed execution environment I often use. The
problem occurs when calling dlopen() to load Python modules. dlopen() and
other functions that use mmap() are unsupported, yet they sometimes work, in
this environment. I would like to remove calls to dlopen() by the Python
library. Is there a way to statically link in all of the standard modules
*and* the Python library *and* keep the Python library from calling
dlopen() for standard modules?

Brian Forney




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 13:29:58 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:29:58 +0000
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.1016859396.28725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

>On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:59:15PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>> 
>> To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
>> `ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.

Is the source for this available?

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From metaliu at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 13:58:53 2002
From: metaliu at yahoo.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:58:53 -0800
Subject: reading in ints from binary files
Message-ID: <a7ns1d$mi1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

Quick Newb question:

How do I read in integers from binary files?  readlines() reads returns the
data in as a string.  I can manipulate the string to get the desired result.
However, is there an easier way of doing this?  I currently do something
like:

f=open('file', 'rb')
s = f.readline()
l = list(s[0:-1])
l.reverse()
a = array.array('h', ''.join(l))

There's gotta be an easier way.

Thanks in advance,
Bill




From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Mar 20 07:10:22 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:10:22 -0300
Subject: classes for fun and newbies
In-Reply-To: <0c0601c1d002$26eef0f0$5102020a@graphnet.com>
References: <0c0601c1d002$26eef0f0$5102020a@graphnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020320091021.A19383@ibook.distro.conectiva>

Bruce,

> class call_record:
>     def __init__(self, record=''):
>         self.record_id=record[0:5]
>         self.date=record[6:11]
[...]
> print call_record.record_id(log[1])

Isn't it call_record(log[1]).record_id? If you're going to access
many fields, you should probably save this instance in a temp variable
(e.g. rec = call_record(log[1])) to avoid parsing it every time.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  5 05:24:25 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:24:25 GMT
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical   computation?
References: <mailman.1015093025.26217.python-list@python.org> <a5ro4e$a31$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <uk7sr2tsj.fsf@python.net>

Alberto Griggio <albgrig at tiscalinet.it> writes:

> #include <stdio.h>
> #include <math.h>
> #include <errno.h>
> #include <string.h>
> 
> int main(void)
> {
>     double d;
>     errno = 0;
>     d = pow(1e-200, 2);
>     if(!errno) printf("OK: %f\n", d);
>     else printf("Error: %d, %s\n", errno, strerror(errno));
>     return errno;
> }
> 
> prints: Error: 34, Numerical result out of range

Fun fun fun:

[mwh at starship foo]$ gcc alberto.c
/tmp/cce0jzts.o: In function `main':
/tmp/cce0jzts.o(.text+0x27): undefined reference to `pow'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[mwh at starship foo]$ gcc alberto.c -lm
[mwh at starship foo]$ ./a.out
Error: 34, Numerical result out of range
[mwh at starship foo]$ gcc alberto.c -lm -lieee
[mwh at starship foo]$ ./a.out
OK: 0.000000
[mwh at starship foo]$ gcc -O9 alberto.c -lm
[mwh at starship foo]$ ./a.out
OK: 0.000000
[mwh at starship foo]$ gcc -O9 alberto.c
[mwh at starship foo]$ ./a.out
OK: 0.000000

When you use "-O9" I think gcc uses the fpu more directly.

Words are failing me.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
6. Symmetry is a complexity-reducing concept (co-routines include
   subroutines); seek it everywhere.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From sab at freeuk.com  Tue Mar 26 15:59:48 2002
From: sab at freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:59:48 -0000
Subject: PIL and saved images coming out all garbled?
Message-ID: <a7qon1$vuc$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi,
i have a problem with saved images coming out all garbled when i use PIL.
this is the code i am using:

[snip]
self.currentImage=Image.open("mapper/thumbnail.jpg")
self.currentPhotoImage=ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.currentImage)
self.mapImage=self.thumbnail.create_image(0, 0,
image=self.currentPhotoImage, anchor=NW)
[/snip]

[snip]
def saveImage(self):
 try:
  if self.currentImage:
   savePath=tkFileDialog.asksaveasfile(title="Save", filetypes=[("Jpeg
File", ".jpg")], defaultextension=".jpg", initialdir="C:\windows\desktop")
   if savePath:
    Image.open("mapper/thumbnail.jpg").save(savePath, "JPEG", quality=100)
 except AttributeError:
  pass
[/snip]

and every time i use the save function the image is all multicoloured and
garbled. is this because i have already opened it with the first section of
code? is there a nicer/proper way?

Thanks,

G. Willoughby




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 08:00:13 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:00:13 +0000
Subject: instantiating a class
References: <3c899c2d@news.cc.umr.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8k1qt.16j.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:08 -0600, Carl <kingprad at mail.com> wrote:
>I'm an intermediate-level python programmer and use classes all the time,
>but a weird problem is frustrating me.
>
>In my main program:
>
>
>import lj_connect
>
>blah blah code
>
>talkserver = lj_connect.lj_connect(userinfo)
>
>
>the start of lj_connect.py is this:
>
>class lj_connect:
> def __init__(self,basic_data):
>  self.uinfo = basic_data
>
>
>I'm getting an AttributeError saying module lj_connect has no attribute
>lj_connect. Originally the lj_connect code was in the same file as the main
>program until I moved it for readability's sake. Can anyone see a problem?
>Thank so much!

What i would start with is renaming one of your lj_connect's. Then 
you'd know which one it is complaining about.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From inerte at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 10:20:13 2002
From: inerte at hotmail.com (Julio Nobrega)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 07:20:13 -0800
Subject: Web scripting with Python (My 2nd post!)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com> <LsCh8.342$Gi.251057@news0.telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <40c3f5da.0203070720.6ca52e4@posting.google.com>

Hi all!

  Many thanks for the answers. Here are mine :-)

> Do you want to *write* a Weblog-like
> system, or just *use* one?

  Kuchling, both. I *need* one, and I will *write* one :-)

  It's not really a necessity, it's for personal, although with
commercial interests, although for the second time, open source, use.
I browsed Slashdot and Kuro5hin too much to understand where the flaws
are.

  OKAY, OKAY! Put your weapon down, slowly.. Let me explain:

  /. and K5 are both Open Source source projects, and there are
literally dozens of PHP weblogs. But, they are grounded a mentallity
that I don't like (the 'webmasters'/'editors' are the center of the
universe). IMHO they are not much user friendly, or community oriented
enough for *my needs* (not to start a flame, please! ;-)

  I will not cannibalize none of their ideas, I mean, just a certain
amount. Specifically the 'geek' focused news part.

  So Andy, that's why I want to reinvent the wheel. First, I want to
learn Python. Second, I don't think there's a system with the
infrastructure I need/will develop. Balanced, I will start from
scratch.

  Peter, how about PL, PL-SQL or Procedural? :-)

  (I admit. I cheated. Hail Google!)

  Jon, Max, Skip, 99miles and Dave. Thanks for the links and tips. I
will look at them all.

Julio Nobrega.


From grante at visi.com  Wed Mar 13 17:21:16 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:21:16 GMT
Subject: Python 2.2 license question
Message-ID: <whQj8.22326$N7.4965283@ruti.visi.com>

I would like to distribute a "binary" Win32 app that includes
python22.dll.  The license for 2.2 states:

  2. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License
  Agreement, PSF hereby grants Licensee a nonexclusive,
  royalty-free, world-wide license to reproduce, analyze, test,
  perform and/or display publicly, prepare derivative works,
  distribute, and otherwise use Python 2.2 alone or in any
  derivative version, provided, however, that PSF's License
  Agreement and PSF's notice of copyright, i.e., "Copyright (c)
  2001 Python Software Foundation; All Rights Reserved" are
  retained in Python 2.2 alone or in any derivative version
  prepared by Licensee.

The file python22.dll contains the copyright notice stibulated
above, but it doesn't contain the license agreement.  Therefore,
I need to include a seperate text file (presumably a copy of
LICENSE.TXT) in the distribution, correct?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOU'D cry too if it
                                  at               happened to YOU!!
                               visi.com            


From ocipiere at club-internet.fr  Wed Mar 13 15:44:06 2002
From: ocipiere at club-internet.fr (Olivier Cipière)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:44:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Import of strop module in C program with Python2.2 on AIX4.3.3 issues a segmentation fault
Message-ID: <772bce2a8686e067a36741da6f2d2fb4.77610@mygate.mailgate.org>

Hi all,

Here is a problem I encounter with Python 2.2 on AIX 4.3.3 :
The import of strop module or strop dependants modules 
in a C program issues a segmentation
fault, even though it seems to work alright when performing 
import from the python prompt.

Does anybody have already encountered this problem or have a solution ??

Best regards,

Olivier Cipi?re.

Below is the simple test program we use :




PYTHONPATH=/tools/python2.2.debug/lib/python2.2:/tools/python2.2.debug/lib/python2.2/lib-tk:/tools/xmlproc0.70:/tools/doctemplate2.2.1:/tools/python2.2.debug/lib/python2.2/plat-aix4:/tools/python2.2.debug/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload:/tools/python2.2.debug/lib/python2.2/site-packages

test program :
-------------------

#include <iostream.h>
#include <Python.h>

int main(int i__argc,char* i__argv[])
{

        Py_Initialize();

        cout << endl << "CALL of PyImport_ImportModule with argument "
<< getenv("NAME_MODULE")
<< endl;

        PyObject * l__obj =
PyImport_ImportModule(getenv("NAME_MODULE"));

        if (l__obj == NULL)
          cout << "importation of module " << getenv("NAME_MODULE") << "
failed !" << endl;

        return 1;
}


We ran this test program for different values of $NAME_MODULE.

$NAME_MODULE      |    result?
-------------------------------------------------------------
base64          |    KO (Segmentation fault) at the call of
PyImport_ImportModule
os                   |    OK
strop              |    KO (Segmentation fault) at the call of
PyImport_ImportModule
string             |    KO (Segmentation fault) at the call of
PyImport_ImportModule

What do we see with dbx (Python 2.2 is compiled in debug mode)?
-------------------------------------
The last instructions in the stack are :

stropmodule.split_whitespace(s = "strop", len = 806723600, maxsplit =
806727672), line 80 in
"stropmodule.c"
initstrop(), line 1221 in "stropmodule.c"
_PyImport_LoadDynamicModule(0x2ff1d2b0, 0x2ff1cdc0, 0xf0004d40), line 53
in "importdl.c"

with 0x2ff1d2b0 = "strop"
        0x2ff1cdc0 =
"/tools/python2.2.debug/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/strop.so"


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 10 05:18:12 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 11:18:12 +0100
Subject: httplib question
In-Reply-To: <00c101c1c7be$058e73a0$9865fea9@bigdaddy>
References: <00c101c1c7be$058e73a0$9865fea9@bigdaddy>
Message-ID: <m3u1ro20bf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"David McInnis" <david at dataovation.com> writes:

> I am on a Win2k machine (I have access to a linux box too).  Where can I
> learn how to activate the SSL Support at compile time?  I did not see
> this option when I installed (I used the windows installer).

That explains it: the SSL support is not available on Windows.

Regards,
Martin



From ronny at cs.kun.nl  Tue Mar  5 04:19:58 2002
From: ronny at cs.kun.nl (Ronny Wichers Schreur)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:19:58 +0100
Subject: Python isn't necessarily slow
References: <3C833D19.3A0EBD5A@kfunigraz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3C848DBE.CEF2A2F7@cs.kun.nl>

Siegfried Gonzi wrote (in comp.lang.python):

> After my nightmare using Clean [..] [Clean] is a useless big
> pile of shit! [..] Clean's array-type-system is an impudent
> scandal for its own

As one of the Clean developers, I'm sorry to read that you're
frustrated with our language.

I believe that you should use the right tools for the right
job. This depends on the job, but also on your own preference.
Judging from your comments you seem more at ease with a language
that's not statically typed and that doesn't enforce referential
transparency.

Maybe Python with NumPy is the right choice for your job and
you could even use functional programming techniques in Python.

One serious objection to your Clean program. The implementation
of CharPosInString and ConvertStringtoString_List are both
quadratic in the number of columns in each row. CharPosInString
because of the call to filter in each iteration and
ConvertStringtoString_List because of the calls to length
and (!!) (list subscription).

Both functions should run in linear time, for example

    CharPosInString:: !Char !String -> [Int]
    CharPosInString char string
        =   [i \\ c <-: string & i <- [0..] | c == char]

    ConvertStringtoString_List:: !String ![Int] -> [String]
    ConvertStringtoString_List string list
        =   [string % (start+1, stop-1)
                        \\ start <- list & stop <- tl list]

(also remove the 0 (initial accumulator) in the calls). This
modification should improve the running time with a factor
ten or so.

Happy hacking.


Ronny Wichers Schreur




From tismer at tismer.com  Tue Mar  5 06:29:36 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:29:36 +0100
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org> <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1015320430.17383.python-list@python.org> <just-7D3CD7.12054205032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3C84AC20.7070103@tismer.com>

Just van Rossum wrote:

> In article <mailman.1015320430.17383.python-list at python.org>,
>  Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Paul Rubin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Do you think it's feasible to modify Python to use non-blocking i/o
>>>everywhere, and then simulate blocking in Stackless?  I.e. when a
>>>microthread does an i/o operation, Python would start the operation
>>>asynchronously, and the Stackless microthread scheduler would block
>>>the microthread til the i/o operation actually completes (detected
>>>using select or SIGIO).
>>>
>>
>>This is roughly how I understood Frederic's idea.


I was wrong: I did understand Frederic's, but was too
quick with Paul's. :-)

> This is not at all how I understood Frederic's idea... I thought his 
> idea was about using os threads for C calls (such as I/O), so you could 
> simply use blocking sockets as they will be run in an OS thread. With 
> non-blocking sockets you can indeed get a long way avoiding OS threads 
> completely, while still presenting a blocking interface, which is what 
> Paul means. It's not a complete solution, though, eg on windows file 
> system files don't work with select and you haven't solved the problem 
> of microthreads blocking when calling a C extension. And _that's_ the 
> area where Frederic's idea would shine, not so much I/O.


I agree mostly. In the last sentence, I don't understand
how working with windows files can be something different
than an I/O problem?.

Both approaches make sense to me. On systems with no threads
at all, we have only one choice, Paul's, unless we code
something thread-alike for the specific platform.
When real threads are available, the other is more powerful.

BTW., your Mac OsX Power PC Stackless is in CVS.

cheers - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
      where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 19:15:44 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:15:44 -0500
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FBDB0.7E0BCA16@engcorp.com>

[Various people wrote]
> >>> Is the source for this available?
> >>
> >>It's in the CVS.
> >
> >Is it very new?  I've got a cvs copy a few weeks old, and it's not there.
> 
> <sigh>  Try http://ht2html.sf.net

I may be more confused than average, but if I was I guess there 
might be others in the same boat. 

When I went to that site I got a simple page with a context menu down
the left, link's to Barry's home page in several places, and a few
example .ht files.  No sign of source.  At first...

Now that someone has pointed us there repeatedly, but without 
much explanation, I figured it had to be me, not the site.  Now
I notice the "ht2html at SourceForge" link in the upper right (hidden
in plain sight -- the old purloined letter trick!), which leads
you to the real repository.  And from there you have to click on
the little "CVS" link, and if you want to browse via the web 
you then have to click on "Browse CVS repository".  *Then* you
can see the danged .py files everyone is probably looking for.
Maybe there's a more direct route, but I didn't see it.

Maybe it's just the ones who already knew how to do this, who
knew how to do this.... ;-)

-Peter


From jadestar at idiom.com  Thu Mar 14 21:09:27 2002
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 02:09:27 GMT
Subject: Setting UNIX environment with a Python script
References: <3C8D143A.17963385@all.com> <B59j8.19604$N7.4435538@ruti.visi.com> <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649@zip.com.au> <slrna8qpqb.16e.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <pan.2002.03.13.09.30.40.476515.3090@zip.com.au>
Message-ID: <a6rl4n$t8f$1@news.idiom.com>

Cameron Hutchison <camh at zip.com.au> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:25:57 +1100, Grant Edwards wrote:

>> In article <pan.2002.03.12.11.14.20.48643.1649 at zip.com.au>, Cameron
>> Hutchison wrote:

>>> What you need to do instead is have your python program print on stdout
>>> the name of the ora_env file to source. Then you invoke your python
>>> script from your shell login script like this (bourne style shell
>>> assumed):

>>> eval "source ora_env.`get_ora_name`"

>> Another common method is to have your Python program write the shell
>> commands to stdout, then execute them with something like

>> eval `myPythonProgram`

> While that would work fine, I dont think it's a terribly good idea. I
> think it would be cleaner to keep the shell syntax in a shell script and
> avoid having the python program assume the scripting environment it is
> returning to.

	Having "myPythonProgram" implemented in ANY language (including
	in ANY shell)  makes exactly the same assumptions: to wit:
	FOO=BAR assigns shell variables and either export (Bourne & family)
	or setenv (csh/tcsh) exports them into the environment.

	*ANY* program or script that is intended to be invoked under 
	eval `....` will have to make those assumptions.  

	So the choice of implementation for `foo` is not constrained
	by the shell under which it is run (once could offer a command
	line argument to support alternative shells: eval `foo -s csh`
	for example).  Since it's not constrained by this; it should
	logically be chosen on other criteria, such as SUITABILITY TO 
	THE JOB AT HAND!  (Doh!)

	If the OP feels that the parsing and processing that he or she
	requires is best done in Python, then Python is just as good
	at printing "FOO=BAR" and "export FOO" (Bourne, et al) or 
	"set FOO=BAR" and "setenv FOO" (csh) as any other language.




From usenet at thinkspot.net  Sun Mar 17 03:35:43 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:35:43 -0800
Subject: Where to download bugfix for email Module?
Message-ID: <a70od0.3vsjqc1.1@kserver.org>

In this message:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=mailman.1014298776.15692.python-list%40python.org

Oleg Broytman writes that the following error message:

 File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 214, in get
    name = name.lower()
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'lower'


which was a bug in the email module, has been fixed and one should download
the "latest code from mimelib.sf.net".

However, I can't figure out where this latest code is or how to download
it. When I go to mimelib.sf.net, I get a somewhat broken page of the email
module docs. And I see no links to download files. When I go to the CVS for
Python at SourceForge.net, and look at the email module files, I'm not sure
which files, if any, I should download. There is something that is only 13
days old, there. But the rest of the stuff is at least 3 months old. So,
I'm not convinced this is the correct place to get the patch, either.

Could someone be VERY specific and tell me exactly where to go and how to
get this patch? I really need it for stuff I'm working on.

Thanks,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Mar 12 15:56:34 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:56:34 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8E44C6.E89FF302@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6Ytj8.10726$mp.48831@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

   In my experience writing a lexer for Perl (for use in syntax styling
editors), 'here documents' and arbitrary quote sequences add much complexity
to a lexer. The full generality of stacked here documents is a real pain to
deal with:

print <<"foo", <<"foo"; # you can stack them
I said foo.
foo
I said bar.
foo

   Neil




From python at rcn.com  Sun Mar 31 20:20:52 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:20:52 -0500
Subject: New-style exceptions?
References: <slrnaaerno.ok0.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a87s9c$9nd$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a88cms$lhr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
> Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
> >
> >Is there a reason why new-style objects can't be used in the raise
> >statement?
>
> Because that's the way it currently works.  Inherit from Exception and
> Bob's your uncle.

Is there a reason why Exception can't be defined to inherit from 'object' so
that Uncle Bob does the right thing?


Raymond Hettinger, CPA





From a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com  Wed Mar 27 07:31:16 2002
From: a.clarke11 at pop.ntlworld.com (a.clarke11)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:31:16 +0000
Subject: Why does this work?
Message-ID: <3CA1BB93.FC00D40D@pop.ntlworld.com>

Hi
I defined a class, and made an instance. The class sis not have a
def__init__() line. In the class, I defined a function  f(x) and an list
object X.tiles. Why can I later call instancename.f, and
instancename.tiles?
I thought the class had to have a def__init__() line in it for this to
work? I would be glad if somebody could spell this out for me, although
it is working perfectly well in the finished program!
The relevant code is:
class Player:

 import random
 Tiles=[]
 Sound="click"
 Win="yippee"
 playlist=[]
 def chooseTiles(x):
  import random
  random.shuffle(Setup.r)
  x.Tiles=[]
  while len(x.Tiles)<7:
   l=0
   l=Setup.r.pop(random.uniform(1,len(Setup.r)))
   x.Tiles.append(l)
  x.Tiles.sort()
 playstring=[]





Porky=Player()
Porky.chooseTiles()

Thanks in anticipation
Tony



From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar 12 22:44:59 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:44:59 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015957103.25893.python-list@python.org> <3C8E7E90.6000608@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3c8ece4a_3@news.bluewin.ch>


I'm sorry. My issues were mainly with the article,
I'm aware that an amount of misquotation happens.

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
3C8E7E90.6000608 at skippinet.com.au...
> From my POV, any publicity is good publicity.

I disagree with this POV, but YMMV.
You're playing with fire <wink>.

regards, Samuele Pedroni.





From manish_ssharma at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 05:31:19 2002
From: manish_ssharma at yahoo.com (Manish Sharma)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:31:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: load_site.py error
Message-ID: <20020313103119.20866.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com>


I want to upload some files in zope using load_site.py
While running the command in python i m getting the error Syntex error : invalid token

the command statement is

>>> python .\load_site.py -u manish:manishkumar -D http:localhost:8080/test/  /tests/

here test is a folder created in zope manager and tests is come with Load_site kit having three .htm files.

i tried wxLoadSite.py through python 
>>> python .\wxLoadSite.py
it also giving the same error of invalid token

if i will use >>> python ./wxLoadSite.py it will give error Syntex Error : invalid syntax

please tell me the solution......
manish




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From oliver.pust at web.de  Wed Mar 20 06:57:54 2002
From: oliver.pust at web.de (Oliver Pust)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:57:54 +0100
Subject: module for assessing gray levels of gray level bitmap?
Message-ID: <3C987942.9060309@web.de>

Hi,

is there a module for assessing the gray levels of gray level bitmap? I 
am thinking of a module that allows to open a bmp-file and stores the 
gray levels of each pixel in form of a matrix e.g. gray_level[x,y].

All the best,
	Oliver



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 06:02:38 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 03:02:38 -0800
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I wanted to repeat Amund Tveit's simple speed tests of jython and
python (see: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=705994),
and place them alongside results from Armin Rigo's python optimizing
compiler, psyco. Here are my results for your interest:

METHOD:
------
I ran pystone once with a 1000,000 iterations setting (pretty much
duplicating what Amund did).


CONFIG:
------
Dell 8100 laptop, windoze XP, PIII-700, 512 MB ram, jdk1.4:


TEST RESULTS:
------------

(in decreasing order of performance)
    
psyco 0.4 (cpython22 running psycoized pystone)
    Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 16.1721
    This machine benchmarks at 61834.8 pystones/second

jython21 (with -server jvm setting)*
    Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 41.739
    This machine benchmarks at 23958.4 pystones/second

cpython22 (with -O optimization setting)
    Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 55.4291
    This machine benchmarks at 18041.1 pystones/second

cpython2.1.2 (with -O optimization setting)
    Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 57.1236
    This machine benchmarks at 17505.9 pystones/second

cpython22 (default)
    Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 61.3202
    This machine benchmarks at 16307.8 pystones/second

cpython2.1.2 (default)
    Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 61.7983
    This machine benchmarks at 16181.7 pystones/second

jython21 (default hotspot jvm)
    Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 108.046
    This machine benchmarks at 9255.32 pystones/second


* my particular command for running jython21 (with -server setting)
follows from Amund's posting (one line, yours may be different):

"C:\Engines\j2sdk\jre\bin\java.exe" -server -Xmx200m
"-Dpython.home=C:\Engines\jython21" -classpath
"C:\Engines\jython21\jython.jar;%CLASSPATH%" org.python.util.jython
pystone.py


SIDE BY SIDE:
------------
                (1000,000 pystone iterations)

                            pystones        pystones/sec
                secs	    /sec	    relative to cpy22

psyco0.4	16.1721	    61834.8	    3.79
jython21S	41.739	    23958.4	    1.47
cpython22O	55.4291	    18041.1	    1.11
cpython212O	57.1236	    17505.9	    1.07
cpython22	61.3202	    16307.8	    1
cpython212	61.7983	    16181.7	    0.99
jython21	108.046	    9255.32	    0.57


MY COMMENTS:
--------------
o psyco rocks.

o jython's no spring chicken for long running processes
  (with the right JVM setting of course) but is relatively slow
  otherwise.

o Turning on the optimization _does_ extract small but
  definite performance enhancements from your python interpreter.
  
o I'm already more than happy with the everyday performance of 
  python22, but I'm also happy that people are looking into the 
  performance 'problem'... even though, at least in my case, almost 
  all the times I've personally found that an app was running slowly,
  it was due to a mistake in the code, and careful redesign fixed 
  it without having to revert to extension writing.

o Sometimes, it's nice to think I have performance problems, so I can
  go through the exercise of writing python extensions (another 
  learning experience)

o Developments like psyco should be encouraged and supported because
  ultimately accelerating python is a good thing: it takes away one 
  usual criticism of those who have _never tried_ to develop in 
  python. For those who have, the productivity benefits, of course,
  by far outweigh any so-called 'performance' issues.

I don't advise you to read too much into these results as the tests
were only run once for each configuration, and, of course, for all the
other typical reasons one has against benchmarking.
 

ciao,

Sandy


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Mar 27 13:44:26 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 13:44:26 -0500
Subject: urllib threads?
References: <92994965.0203270818.500f3665@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7t3ua$p28$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <92994965.0203270818.500f3665 at posting.google.com>,
Andres Jaime <mirv123 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>does anyone have any insight into this problem (issues with urllib and
>multithreading, etc)

I suggest that you swipe my threaded retrieve code from my home page,
test it to verify for own satisfaction that it works correctly, and then
progressively modify it until it does what you want.  If you hit a
failure point in the middle of this process, that should make pinpointing
the problem easier.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 20:40:39 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:40:39 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017602330.26032.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rUOp8.176012$Gf.16207386@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017602330.26032.python-list at python.org...
> [Aahz]
> > But what do you think of changing bool() to truth()?
>
> Whatever Guido tells me to think <wink>.  Before then, I think
"bool"
> usually reads better, as it's less a strain to use as either
adjective or
> noun.  Contrast, e.g.,
>
>     isatty returns bool
>     isatty returns a bool
>     isatty returns a bool value
>
> with
>
>     isatty returns truth

I call this a tie, though I really might lean towards 'truth' here
(but maybe not).

>     isatty returns a truth

I admit 'bool' wins here.

>     isatty returns a truth value

I think 'truth' wins this one.  Try this quiz on someone less familiar
with 'bool' than we are.

> After reading "isatty returns a truth", I'm left wondering which
specific
> truth it returns, and whether I'd agree with it <wink>.
>
> Strangely enough, even today:
>
> >>> print os.isatty.__doc__
> isatty(fd) -> Boolean
> Return true if the file descriptor 'fd' is an open file descriptor
> connected to the slave end of a terminal.
> >>>
>
>     isatty(fd) -> truth
>
> doesn't read poorly, though.

Agreed ;<)

My proposal has two parts: do not use 'bool'; do use 'truth' (or
possibly something else such as 'binary' or even 'tval').  I am
curious what you think of the four reasons I gave.  I am specifically
curious whether you will volunteer to anwer a multiyear stream
(already started) of questions about why Python truth values, being
called bool, do not act 'properly' as bools 'should' and suggestion
that they 'ought' to be restricted (crippled) so that they do.

For some (many? most?) people, it's obvious now, 'Boolean' and its
derivative 'bool' have a definite and restricted usage that excludes
Python truth values current and proposed.  Perhaps we should honor
that usage and use something either more general or more specific to
Python.  Otherwise, we had bettter say pretty clearly that Python bool
is not Boolean and that one should think of it as a type with dual
inheritance from both int and (abstract, not implemented) Boolean.
(And expect that people will be mislead anyway.)

Terry J. Reedy






From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Sun Mar  3 07:04:32 2002
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:04:32 -0800
Subject: Twain Scanners and some other questions
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F55C4@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

dix wrote:
> I need to know if there is a free library for Python to manage Twain
> scanners in order to pilot the scanner and have an image
representation
> of the paper document.

The wonderful Daily Python-URL (http://www.pythonware.com/daily) just
pointed to http://twainmodule.sourceforge.net a few days ago. Searching
Google for the words Python and Twain
(http://www.google.com/search?q=python+twain) yields both of these
sites. A similar approach may help answer your other questions.

Jimmy



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Mar  9 08:43:45 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 05:43:45 -0800
Subject: PEP 2, Procedure for Adding New Modules
References: <a6cssr$dn8$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <a6d3ih$3ne$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <a6cssr$dn8$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl>,
Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote:
>
>    New functionality is commonly added to the library in the form of
>    new modules. This PEP will describe the procedure for the
>    _addition_ of new modules. PEP 4 deals with procedures for
>    deprecation of modules; the _removal_ of old and unused modules
>    from the standard library. Finally there is also the issue of
>    _changing_ existing modules to make the picture of library
>    evolution complete. PEP 3 and 5 give some guidelines on this. The
>    continued maintenance of existing modules is an integral part of
>    the decision on whether to add a new module to the standard
>    library. Therefore, this PEP also introduces concepts
>    (integrators, maintainers) relevant to the maintenance issue.

The maintainers also possess primary responsibility for determining
whether bugfixes should be backported to previous Python releases as
discussed in PEP 6.

>Maintainer(s)
>
>    All contributions to the standard library need one or more
>    maintainers. This can be an individual, but frequently is a group
>    of people such as for instance the XML-SIG. Groups may subdivide
>    maintenance tasks among themselves. One ore more maintainers shall
                                               x
>    be the _head maintainer_ (usually this is also the main
>    developer). Head maintainers are convenient people the integrators
>    can address if they want to resolve specific issues, such as the
>    ones detailed later in this document.


-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From adina_levin at mindspring.com  Mon Mar 25 21:26:30 2002
From: adina_levin at mindspring.com (adina_levin at mindspring.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:26:30 -0600
Subject: Question: recursion and scope
References: <a7nrl8$snv$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <cKKn8.413100$pN4.27801625@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a7omi4$hog$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

Thank you very much, Terry.  That worked.

All I needed was the (return
max(self.right.howdeep(depth)),(self.left.howdeep(depth)))  (as adapted for
my implementation). I still have a counter, which works successfully for any
one side of the tree (though your version is nicer).

Why does this version work?  Why does the counter successfully keep count in
the recursion on one side of the tree, but lose count across sides of the
tree?

What scope principle, recursion concept, or logical step am I missing?

- Adina

Terry wrote:
>
> Perhaps you want something like the following (untested, adjust for
> your tree implementation):
>
> def maxdepth(tree):
>     if leaf(tree): return 1
>     elif onlyleftchild(tree): return maxdepth(leftchild) + 1
>     elif onlyritechild(tree): return maxdepth(ritechild) + 1
>     else return max(maxdepth(leftchild), maxdepth(ritechild)) + 1
>
> If you want to simultaneously count nodes, then you must return a
> tuple of (count,depth) and add a bit more calculation machinery.
>
> Terry J. Reedy

Adina wrote:

> > Hello, Pythonistas.
> >
> > I am attempting to teach myself some basic computer programming
> concepts
> > using Python.
> >
> > I'm currently extending the recursive binary tree program in
> Programming
> > Python to traverse the tree and count its depth. The program
> successfully
> > traverses the tree and counts the number of nodes.
> >
> > So far, though I haven't figured out how to calculate the "maximum
> depth" of
> > the tree without declaring "maxdepth" as a global variable.
> >
> > If maxdepth is declared as a local variable within the recursive
> method, it
> > gets re-set for each subtree.
> >
> > What am I missing?

>
>




From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Mar 27 17:52:20 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:52:20 -0800
Subject: unicode experiments + questions
In-Reply-To: <a7tgrl$ipu$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <000801c1d5e2$0d85c400$445d4540@Dell2>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> So I'm using the unicode escape char syntax, but that is cumbersome
> (where do I look up all my special characters?) and hard on the eyes.

Python 2.2 does not attempt to interpret bytes in string literals. So
you can embed non-ASCII characters in them if you want. You can look up
Unicode ordinals at http://www.unicode.org/charts/. Or you can just use
this code:

>>> ord('<your character here>'.encode('<your encoding here>'))

 
> I also have the following question:
> what exactly happens when I type  "print u" in Python, where u
> is a unicode string? for example;
> 
> >>> e=u'\u20ac'
> >>> e
> u'\u20ac'
> >>> print e
> ?    (<--- this is an Euro symbol on my screen)

Is this what actually happens? Did you change your default encoding to
be something other than ASCII, possible by modifying site.py?
 
> What charset does the print convert to?
> I'm on Win2000, so when I type
> >>> print e.encode('cp1252')
> I get the Euro symbol. Does print automatically convert to the windows
> charset cp1252?

The print does not do any conversion; it just sends bytes to the output
stream.

> How does Python know this charset, because in my syte.py
encoding="iso-
> 8859-15".

Ahah! You did some customization. I think that it is better style to
leave the default encoding as ASCII and call encode/unicode explicitly.

> When I type
> >>> print e.encode('iso-8859-15')
> I don't see the Euro symbol, but some other weird symbol.

As you should, it your system does not use ISO-8859-15.

>
> For your interest, below is the test program I'm using to generate
> different encoded documents.
> Interestingly enough, UTF-7 is not understood by Opera 6. IE 5 and
Mozilla
> get it right.

I've never seen an HTML document encoded in UTF-7, so this doesn't
surprise me.

Cheers,
Brian




From garys at ihug.com.au  Sun Mar 31 16:22:36 2002
From: garys at ihug.com.au (Gary Stephenson)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:22:36 +1000
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <mailman.1017504362.25937.python-list@python.org> <slrnaacavs.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a87uvb$dst$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

"phil hunt" <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnaacavs.2gs.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk...
> On 30 Mar 2002 11:04:13 -0500, Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> wrote:
> >
> >I wonder if this is the circle-ellipse problem over again?
>
> What is the circle-ellipse problem?

One way of expressing the problem is that whilst you and I readily
understand that a rectangle with equal width and height is most definitely a
square, or that an ellipse with equal chords is in fact a circle,  our OO
type systems, in general, do not and cannot.

Date and Darwen discuss this issue extensively in their 3rd Manifesto tome
[1],   and they opine that a "real" OO type system should automatically
promote a "square rectangle" to an actual square instance (assuming of
course, that a "square" class has been defined as an heir of rectangle with
the appropriate constraint). They call this feature "Specialisation by
Constraint".

Personally, whilst I find their arguments most interesting and persuasive,
it would appear to my neophyte eye that actually implementing such a system
might prove even more problematic than trying to trying to satisfy all
twelve of Codd's rules at once! (which in turn has proven to be marginally
more difficult than lifting yourself up by your own bootlaces <g>).

cheers

gary

[1] -
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201709287/ref=pd_sim_books/002-59731
48-1843226






From edream at tds.net  Fri Mar  8 18:50:04 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:50:04 GMT
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1015269677.22186.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C894E28.BB2CCE7B@tds.net>

PEP 282 is more complex and less flexible than it could be.  Instead,
Python's standard logging system could well use dynamic tracing.  

Consider a tracing function with two arguments, a "tracepoint" string
and a message (or function to execute).  By default, the trace function
uses the name of the method from which trace was called as the
tracepoint string, so,

def foo():
  trace("abc")

is the same as:

def foo():
  trace("foo","abc")

This trace prints "foo:abc" only if tracing for "foo" is enabled. 
trace(f) executes f() if "foo" is enabled.  Extending this scheme is
easy.

The app (or tracing object) maintains a dict of enabled tracepoint
names. The user can add or delete entries in the dict at run time. 
trace() supports wildcards and other special characters, so enable("*")
enables all tracing, enable("level2.?") enables "level 2" tracing,
trace("-foo","abc") suppresses wildcard matches for "foo", etc.

Dynamic tracing is trivial to implement.  More importantly, it is
simpler to use and more flexible than any static scheme such as the one
described in 282.

PEP 282 talks about control flow, levels, loggers, handlers, formatters,
filters and configuration.  A case can be made for dealing with each
issue, and experience shows that simple dynamic tracing suffices in
complex apps like compilers and file systems.  For example, all kinds of
configuration (including picking formatters, data sinks, altering the
flow of control of the program being run, etc.) can be done just by
initializing the dict of tracepoint names.

Dynamic tracing provides the essential benefit of any logging system,
namely the ability to alter tracing output without altering the program
being traced.  It does so in the simplest and most general way.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Mar 12 17:36:56 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 22:36:56 GMT
Subject: doctest Hassles!
References: <10d46bdc.0203120928.7e9c708b@posting.google.com> <a6lti4$5r8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a6lvu8$dea$0@216.39.172.122>

On 12 Mar 2002 21:56:20 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On 12 Mar 2002 09:28:11 -0800, doug at pobox.com (Douglas Garstang) wrote:
>
[...]
>>Now, in my code I have:
>>
>>def tester3():
>>    """
>>    >>> import os
>>    >>> ls=os.popen("/bin/ls","r").read()
>>    >>> print ls
>>    example.py
>>    example.pyc
>>    tester.py
>>
>>    """
>>
>>It ignores the blank line at the end, as the docs say it will. On a
> ^^--what ignores what blank line? There's no executable code above.
Well, at least not directly, sorry ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Tue Mar 26 19:03:00 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:03:00 +0100
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
References: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee>
Message-ID: <3CA10C34.A27D5597@gmx.de>

I?m writing a diploma paper on rapid prototyping and python at education.
I am interested in your experiences with python, too, including the time you
needed to learn python.

- Do YOU think, it is more easy to learn python than perl, java or C++  or
..... ?
- What do you think about the syntax of Python? Is it easy to use, or do you
have any problems with it?
- Is here anybody who learned Python as first language?
- Where do you see disadvantages of Python?

Ingo




From joonas at olen.to  Thu Mar 28 02:37:14 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:37:14 +0200
Subject: Image in a module question
References: <cc14131d.0203272259.3d724dc0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CA2C82A.B33B25BF@olen.to>

Christopher wrote:
> 
> A while back, I remember somebody mentioning a way to store image data
> in a Python module.  This is something I think I could really use (I
> want to incorporate an image into an frozen exe that I am writing for
> my coworkers).  I would like to keep the installation nice and neat
> (--onefile) and I figure the easiest way is to store the image in a
> module, import it, then use the string (I am assuming this is what you
> would get from the module, I can't remember what the post sais) e.g.,
> 
> import MyImageModule
> import Image, ImageTk, StringIO
> 
> myImage = MyImageModule.MyImage  # Where MyImage is the string
> representing the image
> 
> im = Image.open(StringIO.StringIO(myImage))
> # I can now use im to construct my Tkinter label/button/etc.
> 
> I did some searches: PIL, image in module, importing images, etc. and
> didn't see the post (it was a lot of pages, i may have just missed
> it).  If somebody remembers the post, could you point me to it (just
> the date would be a huge help).  Thanks a bunch,

Fredrik Lundh explains exactly what you need to do in an ancient
newsgroup article at
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9705101637.AA16871%40arnold.image.ivab.se


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Mar 26 18:56:07 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 15:56:07 -0800
Subject: C API for modules
References: <3CA09F43.80206@erols.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203261556.3cfd003@posting.google.com>

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message news:<3CA09F43.80206 at erols.com>...
> Is there some simple way to call functions in modules from C? In 
> particular, for module struct, how do I call pack, unpack, and calcsize?
> 

OK, I'll be the bunny and ask the obvious(?) meta-question:

Give that the struct module is designed for Python callers to
pack/unpack C structs (laboriously), why bother? Why not just
manipulate the structs in C??


From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 14:33:50 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:33:50 GMT
Subject: Telnet
Message-ID: <yAqm8.1723$Tk.98335@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi folks,

I am trying to write a telnet client program.  Here is the code:

ID = "123445"
PASSWORD = "333"

try:
   tn = telnetlib.Telnet(<host>)
   tn.read_until("Please enter your id? ")
   tn.write(ID+"\n")
   tn.read_until("Enter your password? ")
   tn.write(PASSWORD+"\n")
   print tn.read_all()
   tn.close()
except:
   tn.close()
   print 'connection failed'
tn.close()

It stops after the ID was written.  If I use the actual telnet client, it
returns "Enter your password? " after my ID is submitted.  why does not
tn.read_until() find  the "Enter your password? " string ?  Is there any
other way to handle the password prompt?

Thanks in advance!

Billy Ng




From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar  4 00:48:06 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:48:06 -0500
Subject: functional programming with map()
References: <mailman.1014747703.26001.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5v1r1$aji$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"mcherm" <mcherm at destiny.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1014747703.26001.python-list at python.org...
> >> List comprehensions are declarative (no loops) and they avoid side
effects
> >> (no loop variables or temporaries)
> >
> > No side effects?  Try this:
> >
> > L = [x for x in range(10)]
> > print x
>
> Yeah, but that's a bug.

It COULD be a feature
despite its creepy-crawly,
six-legged, hive-dwelling,
crumb-eating nature.

Hard to tell.

Raymond Hettinger

@ @
\_/





From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Mar  8 13:13:48 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:13:48 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
In-Reply-To: <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203082105490.12013-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 4 Mar 2002, Bengt Richter wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:56:45 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
>
>>On 3 Mar 2002, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
>>>Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?
>>
>>Have it in a separate file.
>>
>That's fine in a lot of cases, but does require reliable presence
>of both files. It's not so convenient if you are trying to write
>e.g. a program generator and want to write out snippets containing
>mixed triple quoted doc strings and data etc. Or if you are
>writing copied example snips as part of dynamic HTML from CGI.

>===the stuff I want===
>
>
>Sure, I can copy it and make a separate file, and write some code to
>read the file into my snippet string, but would you actually prefer to
>do it that way? Ok, I could write a class to systematize it. Maybe I
>will, when I want use file-stored snippets, but I'd like both options
>;-) And I guess I'd like to have Q' as well as q' ;-)

Well, maybe my first impressions were wrong. After all, the feature is
convenient. But probably you will need to coordinate it well
with encoding things. What if "dochere"'s encoding need to be
different from main program one? Are binary data allowed?
Otherwise the feature will become grammatical disaster...

>>Making Python as gibberish as Perl is. And all that only to
>>have Windows path be written without double-\
>Not 'only'. I said 'also' ;-)  Perhaps my choice of '|' delimiter triggered
>your 'gibberish as Perl' detector?

;-) Maybe. I wonder why Perl novices do not know about "dochere"
capabilities of Perl.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, March 08, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "People are always available for work in the past tense." _/




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 16:37:01 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:37:01 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015435158.24789.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-7FF6DD.13370106032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015435158.24789.python-list at python.org>,
 "Roman Yakovenko" <romany at actimize.com> wrote:

> What is about step ?
> 
> for( int I = 0; I < 10; I+=2)
> 	do smth

The proposal doesn't address arithmetic progressions, geometric 
progressions, or any other type of sequence: just intervals of 
consecutive integers.

But if you expanded your example a little:

for (int l = 0; l < 10; l += 2)
   do smth(l)

you would see that it is easy to handle it with the proposed new syntax:

for 0 <= h < 5:
    do smth(2*h)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Mar 31 09:41:28 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 09:41:28 -0500
Subject: Subclass sadness (was Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type)
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <a85od6$9i$1@pani <yu99hemx1e8r.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1017555459.10956.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8776o$s4m$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017555459.10956.python-list at python.org>,
Richard Jones  <rjones at ekit-inc.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:46, Andrew Koenig wrote:
>>
>> The other way around -- inheriting rectangle from square -- would
>> seem to make more sense because a rectangle has all the information
>> that a square does, and then some.  But that doesn't really work either,
>> because then you can no longer assume that every kind of square is
>> really a square.  After all, it might be a rectangle.
>
>Hrm, just following this thought here, possibly for no good reason at
>all (hey, it's Sunday, and daylight savings just ended so I've got a
>whole _hour_ extra to waste today :)... hell, I can't even remember
>what the point of the circle/ellipse comment was ;)

It was pointing out that inheriting truth/bool from int carries the same
sort of messiness inherent in circle/ellipse.

>Surely sqaure and rectangle (and parallelogram) subclass a more
>fundamental four-sided-shape (er, I can't believe it, but I've
>forgotten the name for them ;)? They impose their own constraints on
>the four-sided-shape, given it has side lengths and angles between the
>sides.

Quadrilateral and parallelogram.  But that's still the same sort of
problem when one subclasses, only adding more attributes.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From San at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 23:51:36 2002
From: San at hotmail.com (San)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:51:36 -0700
Subject: Compile.py
Message-ID: <3c9570f8_1@corp-goliath.newsgroups.com>

Hello,

Very new to Python.  "Programming on Win32" mentions David Asher's
Compile.py.
I've found a Compile.py in the sources \Tools\compiler folder.  This
script seems to be expecting arguments, and in fact I drop into the "no
files to compile" case, presumably from getopt.

This contrasts "Win32"'s example, where no arguments are used ( thought
a setup.in and source files in the current directory are assumed).  Am I
using the right script, or have I totally missed something?

Thanks,
M.E.I.




______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net


From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar 25 02:37:59 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 02:37:59 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324115311.0457dbb8@202.95.131.154> <mailman.1017031538.14132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7mk5n$gj5$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Tripp Scott" <tripps81 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017031538.14132.python-list at python.org...
> At 25/03/2002 07:37, brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> thanks for the tip. actually, the essence of what i wanted to
> ask was: "can that SOMETHING be a list of more than one elements
> which will be _flatly_ added to the result list." as another
> example, can i generate this list
>
>   [1,1  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4]

I don't see the pattern.  I presume you mean:
[1,1,  2,2,2,  3,3,3,3, 4,4,4,4,4 ]

>
> with a list comprehension that contains one 'for' clause?

I think you are asking for a general purpose solution to the
problem of using list comprehensions in an 'extend' rather
than 'append' mode.

The general purpose technique is to build it unflattened and
then wrap it with 'reduce' to flatten it.

Applying that general technique to your specific example is easy:

>>> import operator
>>> reduce(operator.add, [[i]*(i+1) for i in range(1,5)])
[1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4]

Hope this helps you train your pet Python,


Raymond Hettinger




From barry at zope.com  Fri Mar 22 14:59:15 2002
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:59:15 -0500
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
Message-ID: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org>

To maintain www.python.org, we use a web page templating system called
`ht2html', which transforms .ht template files into .html files.
While the generated html pages are fairly stylized, there is some
degree of flexibility in customizing the style for other sites.
E.g. www.list.org, www.jython.org, tmda.sf.net, barry.wooz.org.

There's been enough interest in the software for me to finally create
a SourceForge project for it.  Please visit

    http://ht2html.sf.net

for more information.
-Barry



From agenkin at thpoon.com  Thu Mar 21 03:18:18 2002
From: agenkin at thpoon.com (Arcady Genkin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:18:18 GMT
Subject: multithreading and Tkinter
Message-ID: <uok7s6qqph.fsf@bashful.cdf.toronto.edu>

Greetings:

I have a separate thread, responsible for graphical stuff, which
displays a bunch of objects as "Tkinter.Lablel"s.  Then, I have a
buhch of separate threads, which collect information about the
objects over the network, at specified intervals.

How do I signal the GUI thread that new information for a particular
object has arrived?  Currently I'm using after() method of the Tkinter
object to update info for *all* objects every second, but that is
hardly a good design, since there may be 500 of them, and the new info
can be arriving once every 15 minutes.

Any ideas and/or pointers to the documentation (preferably online)
highly appreciated.

Many thanks,
-- 
Arcady Genkin
Don't read everything you believe.


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 20:40:23 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 03:40:23 +0200
Subject: Python/Linux
In-Reply-To: <J4Op8.61588$Q7.48627836@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <a886hv$st6$1@panix1.panix.com> <J4Op8.61588$Q7.48627836@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020401014023.GB333@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> [2002-03-31 19:53 -0500]:
> Heard much about Zope, not much about Don Quixote.

Zope isn't only a web application framework, it's also a content-management
system. But I'm really not quite sure what it really is ;-)

IMO if you want to develop a web application, using a plain CGIs or a framework
like Webware is easier, because they're less complex than Zope.

> If I go with Zope will I miss something special as far as Quixote's
> concerned?

> I didn't know Zope also had a WYSIWIG editor for HTML pages.

It doesn't.

> Also, do I have to get Python 2.2 to use Zope 2.5?  I'm surprised SUSE's
> Yast2 missed that update.

You can avoid potential package management trouble by downloading a Zope binary
distribution and setting it up yourself.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.3 ?C      Wind: 0.7 m/s



From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Tue Mar  5 07:43:10 2002
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:43:10 GMT
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
Message-ID: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk>

I've written a simple Python script to scan a bunch of URLs for "live" 
sites and grab the title of those pages. It works by using popen() to 
call lynx and analyse the HTTP response:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

command = "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"
f = os.popen(command)
l = f.readline()  # Read first line of output, the HTTP status line
try:
	# Look for '200' HTTP status code indicating page exists
	i = l.index('200')
except ValueError:
	i = 0
if i:
	print "Web page exists!"
	# Now try and get the title of the page
	for line in f.readlines():
		line = string.strip(line)
		# look for <title>*</title> using regular expression
		result = re.search('\s*<title>([^<]*)</title>\s*', line)
		if result:
			# Found the title
			title = result.group(1)
			found[user] = title
			print "Page Title: " + title
			break
	if not found.has_key(user):
		found[user] = "[unknown]"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

You can see the output of the script here:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/cs1sites.html

As you can see, the code works fine for most pages but fails to grab the 
<title> tag on some of them (resulting in an [unknown] entry in the 
list). I've checked the HTML for these pages  and a <title></title> tag 
exists in a form that should be picked up by my regular expression, but 
for some reason it just doesn't work.

Any ideas?



From scott2237 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 16:52:01 2002
From: scott2237 at yahoo.com (googlePoster)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 13:52:01 -0800
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
Message-ID: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com>

python gurus:

if I want to know if a variable exists before
testing it, what do I do?

I have tried 

   if locals().has_key("colors_name")

and

   if globals().has_key("colors_name")

and

   curr_color = "none"
   curr_color = vim.eval("colors_name")

and

   curr_color = os.getenv("colors_name", "none")

and I just can't seem to get there from here

I am using python as my gvim scripting language here,
python v2.2, both on NT 4.0 and win98se

gvim is version 6.0

I want to do things based on the existance of colors_name,
but if it's undefined I can't test it


From deathtospam43423 at altavista.com  Tue Mar 19 20:45:01 2002
From: deathtospam43423 at altavista.com (Flavian Hardcastle)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 01:45:01 GMT
Subject: Q: Sound production with python?
Message-ID: <Xns91D77CBAABF81AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>

Being a beginner fiddle player, as well as a beginner python programmer, I 
want to write a little prog that trains the sense of pitch.

How envisage it working is thus...

It plays a simple 4 note melody, then repeats the melody with one of the 
notes (selected randomly) slightly off pitch ... say by 20% or 10% or 5%. 
The user then has to detect which note was off.

What modules and commands should I use to generate this sounds? What's the 
best way to go about it?

-- 
cdewin at dingoblue.net.au



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar  8 11:54:15 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:54:15 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015434612.21965.python-list@python.org> <slrna8dd1d.d3t.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <eppstein-508119.09361007032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8h5ev.ijc.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <eppstein-6ADF17.08541508032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8h5ev.ijc.philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>,
 philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) wrote:

> Thev reasdon i don't like it is that the syntax already has a 
> meaning: to compare the magnitude of values. Now you are proposing 
> another, totally different, meaning.

How is that unlike the difference in meaning between "in" in expressions 
and "in" in for-loops?


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sun Mar 31 12:18:49 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 18:18:49 +0100
Subject: Possible to save router logs?
References: <bbde2416.0203310724.4150665d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91E2BA76667DCcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Luap777 at hotmail.com (Paul) wrote in 
news:bbde2416.0203310724.4150665d at posting.google.com:
> I have a D-Link 704 cable/DSL router. Unfortunately, it has very
> limited logging capabilities(in that it doesn't save logs, it just
> rights over them when the space fills.) What I would like to do is
> right a program to save the logs to my hard drive every 12 hours or
> so. I normally have to access the web page with the url being the
> local IP of the router, then type in a password to get access to the
> logs. Has anyone attempted something like this? I know this is kinda
> general, but any feedback would be appreciated. It might give me an
> idea of where to begin. Thank you.

with the urllib module you can easily get a webpage i.e the log page of 
your router. you may first have to log in. for that you just have to
format the HTTP GET correctly. when you find out what you browser sends to 
login you can mimic that with the urllib.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Mar 13 17:25:48 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:25:48 +0000
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org> <q7kv8u0s9fq1k25ktlcnmpiqh8h2tn9cem@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <edkv8ucbo9qv8hhjdemm6qhn1o7siio8sm@4ax.com>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:23:02 +0000, Gon?alo Rodrigues
<op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:13 -0800, James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
>
>>
>>[ruud de rooij[
>>| perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
>>| (analogous to dictionaries).
>>
>>[Clark C . Evans]
>>| Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
>>| does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
>>| as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
>>| consistent, and quite elegant.
>>
>>I would like to see:
>>    .keys()
>>    .items()
>>    .iterkeys()
>>    .iteritems()
>>
>>jim
>>
>
>The same idea should be extended to any sequence, actually.
>
>Gon?alo Rodrigues.

In case I am misunderstood, sequence = object supporting a list-like
protocol (__getitem__, etc.), not just an iterable.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 11 00:29:10 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 06:29:10 +0100
Subject: How to disable assert statements inside a module?
References: <mailman.1015795098.9879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3d6yb65ax.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> Note that assignment to __debug__ was deprecated in 2.1:
> 
>     SyntaxWarning: can not assign to __debug__
> 
> and removed in 2.2:
> 
>     SyntaxError: can not assign to __debug__

Of course,

def foo(x):
     assert x

globals()['__debug__'] = 0
foo(0)

continues to work.

Regards,
Martin


From whale at mycameo.com  Mon Mar  4 05:12:12 2002
From: whale at mycameo.com (whale)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:12:12 +0800
Subject: Problem with opening PCX image
Message-ID: <PJEDJHHNKKHHMLOINBGLKELMCCAA.whale@mycameo.com>

When I opened PCX images with PIL, most images work fine.
However, there is one image I opened it with the same procedure, the exception occured.
I can view this image with different image viewer.
I am not sure how does this happen?
Is this the bug existing in PIL module?
I put a problematic image online at http://www.mycameo.com/download/fromQA.PCX.
Please take a look at it.
Thanks a lot.

PythonWin 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (MarkH at ActiveState.com) - see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>> import Image
>> im = Image.open("fromQA.PCX")
>> im.load()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "D:\Python21\Image\PIL\ImageFile.py", line 166, in load
    raise IOError, "decoder error %d when reading image file" % e
IOError: decoder error -1 when reading image file

From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Tue Mar 12 12:49:28 2002
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:49:28 GMT
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <slrna8r4lj.2u6.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <roy-59D1B0.07392212032002@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8sfpd.7vj.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> graced us by uttering:
> Tim Hammerquist <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote:
>> According to Smalltalk enthusiasts, definitely not.
> 
> AFAICT, if you ask a smalltalker, he'll tell you python is not OO because 
> it's not more like smalltalk.

That's coincidental, actually. That's simply because Smalltalk _has_ the
qualities he/she uses to classify object oriented langauges.

> On the other hand, if you ask a C++ hacker, he'll tell you python is
> not OO because it's not more like C++.  Similarly for Java, etc.

I personally eschew Java and C++ because in my experience, they're more
trouble than they're worth.

> Everybody seems to have their own definition, usually based on
> whatever they learned first.

Good observations. I agree.

> I've got one guy I work with you insists python isn't OO for exactly one 
> reason: because it doesn't implement private variables.

What does he think of Ruby?

Tim Hammerquist
-- 
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain.
    -- Lily Tomlin


From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Mar 24 12:26:10 2002
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:26:10 +0000
Subject: ranking and searching [was: Re: "Zope-certified Python Engineers"]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203211058540.12921-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu> <mailman.1016732314.18695.python-list@python.org>  <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203212006050.8449-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <mailman.1016822075.17058.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203241637000.29289-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Laura Creighton wrote:

> >On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John J. Lee wrote:
[...]
> Now consider the case where site number 15,899 is your best bet.  Unless
> you can come up with the sort of search terms that makes this site come
> up higher -- you are never going to see it.  This is a neat problem.

But of course, you can get other sites to the top of the list by using
longer / different search terms.  And there is no search system which will
not suffer from bad ranking, though metadata does help of course.

[...]
> once you have made it to the top, you basically stay there, so an
[...]

I agree this is a problem, but given the fact that self-consistent ranking
works much better than non self-consistent ranking, for everyday usage,
this is inevitable, isn't it?

> The deeper problem is one of the web itself.  A few months ago, I
[...story of inaccurate web site...]
>
> I can't report this; I can't get it fixed; and right now some other
> poor soul may have done exactly what I did.  This is worrysome  We

You can not link to it, though.  I don't claim this is the perfect system,
of course, but the self-consistent algorithm used by google makes it work
better than you'd expect.  I agree that further improvements probably need
better input rather than (only) better algorithms.

It is a shame, as amk commented, that backlinking schemes aren't being
used much (never used it myself, so I can hardly complain).

> now have too much information at our disposal, vastly too much, when
> throughout history we were more likely to have too little.  The problem
> now isn't finding stuff -- it is knowing how trustable the stuff is.
>
> EBay has one sort of approach.  So does Advogato (see http://advogato.org ).
> It is a real problem and one that interests me a lot.

Of course, this is the same kind of information that Google already uses,
though in a self-consistent and decentralised way (which is necessary for
web page ranking -- unlike advogato's system).  Not exactly the same,
agreed, since linking to a page doesn't necessarily mean you think it's
authoritative.

> >[OT: A question I've asked many times and got no answer to is 'why has
> >nobody done self-consistent ranking for academic papers'?  I fear the
[...]
> Oh yes! Many people have been trying to do this.  See
> http://www.isinet.com/isi/news/2001/productnews/8117876/index.html
> for one attempt.

Hmm, I don't see anything about it on that page... Perhaps my use of
'self-consistent' is not clear: I mean this in the same kind of sense as
in 'self-consistent field' calculations (which IIRC is where they say they
got their inspiration) -- eg. http://www.google.com/technology/ :

| In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote,
| by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume
| of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that
| casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important"
| weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."

Which I've always assumed is the reason why Google does so much better
than older search engines.


John



From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Wed Mar 13 13:52:27 2002
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven Majewski)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:52:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: python and analyze image format?
In-Reply-To: <87henkickf.fsf@lumen.indyrad.iupui.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.40.0203131349160.21668-100000@d-128-54-224.bootp.virginia.edu>


On 13 Mar 2002, Michael A. Miller wrote:

> Anybody know of a python reader/write for analyze image data and
> header files?  Would you provide a pointer if you do?

Are you referring to the Mayo Foundation's "Analyze" ?

-- Steve





From python at chajadan.net  Thu Mar  7 22:25:17 2002
From: python at chajadan.net (chajadan)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:25:17 -0800
Subject: Tkinter question: master?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307191741.028c7940@63.118.78.184>

Boy this has been bothering! me....

I understand what a master ~is~, what I don't understand is that in so many 
examples, I see something along the lines of:

class Application(Frame):

	def __init__(self, master):
		Frame.__init__(self, master)

 >>>

Now what confuses me is, where is master defined? It always seems to just 
pop-up.

Let me think out loud a sec--

in "def __init__(self, master):", self refers to this class, i.e. 
Application (though how those are inherently linked [by name or arguement 
position--assuming position] I have no clue. master will be set equal to 
whatever the next arguement is, which seems to be Frame...

Ok, so if that's all correct so far, in "Frame.__init__(self, master)" the 
master seems to be referring to itself...... ok wait...

the "app=Application(root)" part probably becomes important. I guess, this 
calls the init method, with root being passed on as master, the class 
instance as self, and the (Frame) in the class definition must just be for 
inheritance purposes and have ~NOTHING~ to do with arguements, in the 
method-sense... geesh! That's been bugging the heck out of me.

So do I stand self-corrected?

--chajadan




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Mar 15 14:23:03 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:23:03 -0700
Subject: Pretty Integers
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DA2@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Lindstrom Greg - glinds [mailto:Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com] 
> 
> I would like to add commas to the integers I am writing (for 
> example: 12345678 --> 12,345,678).  I have a fairly ugly 
> method that relies heavily upon mods, but am convinced there 
> must be a "pretty" way to do it.  How would you go about this task?
> 
> Thanks, everyone!

How about:

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
'English_United States.1252'
>>> locale.format('%d', 12345678, 3)
'12,345,678'
>>>

-- bjorn



From lac at strakt.com  Fri Mar  8 08:33:54 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:33:54 +0100
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?) 
In-Reply-To: Message from David Eppstein <eppstein@ics.uci.edu> 
   of "Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:39:06 PST." <eppstein-5FA85E.16390607032002@news.service.uci.edu> 
References: <mailman.1015540815.12210.python-list@python.org>  <eppstein-5FA85E.16390607032002@news.service.uci.edu> 
Message-ID: <200203081333.g28DXstB021716@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

David Eppstein writes:

> Your ints module is nice, and I think if it were in the standard library
> I'd be a lot less motivated to push PEP 284.  But, the objection to it 
> will be that it only creates closed intervals, where other Python 
> objects create half-open ones and it would be nice to have a syntax that
> would allow any combination of open and closed interval endpoints.

I am not so certain of this.  I think that only some people think that
it would be nice to have a syntax that would allow any combination
of open and closed interval endpoints.  I don't.  I think that it
would have been nice if when Guido was designing the language he
used Haskall's syntax for loops.  But he didn't.  And I think that
the reason that no changes along these lines have happened despite
years of effort on the part of people who want changes is that this
is too hard a thing to retrofit a language with.  There are no 
changes that I can see that are not inferior to living with things
the way they are.  They flunk my personal elegance test.  Right now
I don't believe that it is possible to come around with one that is
elegant enough that I would support, because I think that we would
have found it already if it existed.  

(Now watch Guido pass the PEP tomorrow :-) )

Laura Creighton

By the way, for your students, what keeps you from doing this:

 import sys

 _indices = xrange(sys.maxint) 
 #a reusable index sequence, use with zip only, NOT with map

 ...

 for index, value in zip(_indices, someList):
          whatever_you_want()

I am assuming that your problem is that you want to teach algorithms to
your students and you don't want their brains getting derailed with
'what is a range function' and 'what is an open-interval' and the like.
zip is rather easy to understand.  Only the name is odd, but then map
is already taken.  But perhaps I have misunderstood your problem. 

Laura Creighton



From jim at jim.jim  Wed Mar 27 15:51:51 2002
From: jim at jim.jim (jimh)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:51:51 -0800
Subject: problems with circular references
Message-ID: <a7tbd4$qc7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

I am working on python code that consist of quite a few files (about 50;
each file contains one class).  All errors returned by functions are numeric
and are defined in the individual files.  There is a MessageCatalog.py class
which will map these numbers into strings.  This MessageCatalog.py has to
import all of the 50 other files to have access to their error numbers.  So
far, so good - no problems yet.

Here is the problem: Most of these 50 classes need to use the MessageCatalog
themselves.  This means, of course, that classA imports MessageCatalog which
imports classA.  This doesn't work very well.

Does anyone have ideas on how to deal with this situation?

Thanks,
Jim




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 21 18:06:14 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:14 GMT
Subject: Develop-test-debug cycle
References: <un2h9ukh13kddcd3ooc9osejapiaf5v6t3@4ax.com> <RD8m8.27456$e33.26506@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> <3C9A6321.9953DC71@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <GHtm8.6070$S3.1819@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

DOH! Missed that del statement.

> One possible fix/workaround, though also possibly a huge pain in the
posterior,
> is to simply change all references to wibble to use Wibblemodule.wibble.
>
> Another thing that might work:
>
> reload(Wibblemodule)
> from Wibblemodule import wibble
>
> By specifically re-importing wibble, this should (I think) re-bind the
name to
> the new version.

You could also do this the same way you overload stdin, stdout:

from Wibblemodule import wibble
import Wibblemodule

...

reload(Wibblemodule)
wibble = Wibblemodule.wibble





From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar 25 23:36:22 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 13:36:22 +0900
Subject: starting a python program from within xemacs
References: <1017098019.357959@DS9.ai-lab.fh-furtwangen.de>
Message-ID: <87vgbk54jd.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Marco" == Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:

    Marco> sorry if this is the wrong newsgroup to ask, but I tried in
    Marco> comp.emacs.xemacs and nobody could help me, probably
    Marco> because too few people there code in python :-)

Oh, I think it's unlikely that that is the problem.  For starters you
waited less than 16 hours for an answer.  But most likely because you
omitted important information:

    Marco> Because I use curses, a C-c C-c doesn't work because the
    Marco> xemacs output window isn't capable of using curses.

You didn't mention C-c C-c, so obviously people were led to answer a
different question.

(defun marco/py-execute-in-xterm ()
  (interactive)
  (shell-command (concat "xterm -e 'python "
                         (buffer-file-name)
                         "' &")))

(define-key py-mode-map [(control c) c] #'marco/py-execute-in-xterm)

probably sorta kinda does what you want.  If you want to override the
normal C-c C-c, change the second element of the vector to (control c).

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From cfox at crystalcherry.com  Wed Mar  6 04:23:37 2002
From: cfox at crystalcherry.com (Colin Fox)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:23:37 GMT
Subject: mx package
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.06.01.23.47.195291.3038@crystalcherry.com>

Greetings. I realize this is a little OT, but I don't know where else to
ask.

I'm trying to work with Zope and Postgres, and one of the
packages I'm trying to install (psycopg) requirs mxDateTime, which in
turn requires mx.

I can't find any mention of this 'mx' package anywhere.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Colin Fox
CF Consulting Inc.
cfox at crystalcherry.com

GPG Fingerprint:
D8F0 84E7 E7CC 5C6C 9982  F1A7 A3EB 6EA3 BC97 572F


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Mar 15 19:10:32 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:10:32 -0800
Subject: Optimising list comparison
References: <kttk8.6969$OP.215047@stones>
Message-ID: <eppstein-90B8D1.16103215032002@news.service.uci.edu>

How about simplifying the logic a bit:

    def compare():
        for i in range(len(list1)):
            if list1[i] + list2[i] == 1:
               return 0
        return 1

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From fabi.kreutz at gmx.de  Fri Mar  1 07:42:51 2002
From: fabi.kreutz at gmx.de (fabi.kreutz at gmx.de)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 12:42:51 GMT
Subject: SAX-Parser entity
Message-ID: <a5nt0b$pta$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

Hi,

I spend the last 3 hours browsing FAQs and Mailinglist - without success -
but have nevertheless the feeling, that this is a very easy question:

I try to use the minidom XML-Parser to parse my little file in order to
generate HTML Code.
Being german, I really like to use Umlauts but minidom does not.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", line 908, in parse
    return _doparse(pulldom.parse, args, kwargs)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", line 900, in _doparse
    toktype, rootNode = events.getEvent()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/pulldom.py", line 251, in getEvent
    self.parser.feed(buf)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.py", line 92, in feed
    self._err_handler.fatalError(exc)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/handler.py", line 38, in fatalError
    raise exception
xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: <unknown>:29:19: not well-formed

where Character 19 in Row 29 is the occurence of an ?.

After browsing the FAQs I changed the default encoding in site.py to
iso-8859-1, which had some nice effect, but not on minidom.
Some more browsing let me tell pulldom to use StringIO instead of cStringIO,
still no success.

Since I want to use the text in HTML it would be enough, if I could use
the &uuml; instead, but parse gives me in this case
...
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/handler.py", line 38, in fatalError
    raise exception
xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: <unknown>:29:19: undefined entity

where 29:19 is the &.
I tried to protected it with an \ or / but still no success.

Can anybody help me with this?

-- 
The irony of the Information Age is that it has given
new respectability to uninformed opinion.
					- John Lawton


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Mar 28 04:41:01 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 01:41:01 -0800
Subject: Sorting distionary by value
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203280141.6c04bd3a@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3CA295CC.9682E2DB at engcorp.com>...
> 
> Something like   freq[word] = freq.get(word, 0) + 1
> 
> would probably be faster, and it's a little simpler I think,

Try this:

# way up front of the function, outside all loops
   freq = {}; freq_get = freq.get

# much later ...

      freq[word] = freq_get(word, 0) + 1


From info at pythonware.com  Fri Mar 15 08:57:43 2002
From: info at pythonware.com (PythonWare)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:57:43 +0100
Subject: ANN: Python Imaging Library 1.1.3 (march 15, 2002)
Message-ID: <036501c1cc29$8fb0f930$0900a8c0@spiff>

the secret labs proudly presents PIL 1.1.3:

    The Python Imaging Library (PIL) adds image processing capabilities
    to your Python interpreter. This library supports many file formats,
    and provides powerful image processing and graphics capabilities.

    Version 1.1.3 adds distutils build scripts, improved resampling,
    screen grabbing support (windows only), and more.

    Get your copy of the source kit here:

        http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

enjoy,
the pil team

    "Secret Labs -- makers of fine pythonware since 1997."





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Mar  6 21:20:57 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:20:57 +1100 
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A1E9@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu]
> 
> In article <mailman.1015461984.1986.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> 
> You would add a summary of this discussion to PEP 284's 
> description of 
> PEP 274?  I didn't want to get too detailed, just provide appropriate 
> citations so readers could look up the relevant related proposals.

No - not quite thinking straight there. It of course belongs on PEP 274
only.

Tim Delaney.



From rich at worldsinfinite.com  Fri Mar 15 11:04:04 2002
From: rich at worldsinfinite.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:04:04 -0500
Subject: does Python support some kind of "casting"
In-Reply-To: <3C91F472.FB2B67C7@engcorp.com>
References: <a6q6hu$1c6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <a6shn9$9l6$1@crusher.de.colt.net> <3C91F472.FB2B67C7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200203151604.g2FG44g02681@localhost.localdomain>

On Friday 15 March 2002 08:17 am, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Tino Lange wrote:
> > > Yes, that will make a copy. But copying a list is a pretty efficient
> > > operation, so no, it isn't really horribly inefficient. Have you tried
> > > it and identified this as a bottleneck? How long are your lists anyway?
> >
> > 3600 Elements each.
> >
> > No I didn't check if it's a bottleneck. But I immediately didn't feel
> > good when writing "return list(newlist)" (the list contains a list of
> > strings itself - so it's much stuff to copy)
>
> Get over it.  3600 elements is nothing, especially once you realize that
> the strings themselves are not duplicated, just the references.
>
> Anyway, the "immediately didn't feel good" thing is probably a feeling
> you'd best learn to ignore more. :-)  Only optimize when you have actually
> identified a bottleneck by profiling.  And a "bottleneck" is not something
> that runs "slow", but something that runs "too slow" which means you
> also need to have a specific requirement in mind before spending your
> valuable time optimizing.  Once I learned this it has made my programming
> life much easier.
>
> -Peter

Isn't there some additional overhead (above copying the underlying C array 
for the list) in having to bump each refcount of every object contained?  
This would appear on the surface to be not trivial when the number of 
referenced objects becomes large, especially considering that many of the 
object's ref counts may be swapped out or otherwise.  But your point about it 
is true, it is reasonably fast and I certainly can't think of a general 
solution that would be better.

OTOH, I do wonder if some form of list-based buffer() would be useful in 
these cases, so that you can take a slice of a list, bump the list's refcount 
without bumping the referenced objects (they're going to have one for the 
underlying list anyway), and proceed to process as necessary.  Granted, the 
usefulness in small list cases and cases where you want to modify the 
buffered thing would be quite limited, such a utility might be useful in 
large-scale list processing.  

Is anyone out there doing large scale list stuff in Python that would find 
this useful?  Has anyone else tried using buffer() to do similar slicing with 
strings?  I've had mixed results - sometimes it works like a charm, others 
some standard library won't accept the buffered() strings...

Just random thoughts,
Rich



From neal at metaslash.com  Thu Mar 21 15:28:41 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:28:41 -0500
Subject: IntSpan?
References: <3c97c886@news.nwlink.com> <3C99F049.5A78B149@metaslash.com> <3c9a1ae9$1@news.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A4279.D63C14BB@metaslash.com>

Jeff Bienstadt wrote:
> 
> "Neal Norwitz" <neal at metaslash.com> wrote in message
> news:3C99F049.5A78B149 at metaslash.com...
> > Jeff Bienstadt wrote:
> > >
> > > Does there exist for Python something akin to the Set::IntSpan module
> for
> > > Perl?
> > >
> > > I'm looking for something that inteligently handles and manipulates
> spans
> > > of integers, such as:
> > >    2-356,456,458-500

	[my response deleted]

> Yes, I knew about range, but that's not quite what I'm looking for.
> 
> Using range to create the full list of integers seems prohibitively
> expensive --- spans in the range 1-400000 are not at all out of line.
> 
> I'm envisioning a class that stores (for example) a list of tuples and/or
> integers
> to express each portion of the span, such as
>     [(2,356), 456, (458,500)]
> 
> Then, the class might be asked to insert the value 457 into the
> span, which would then result in a "merging" of the items in the
> internal list, such as:
>     [(2,356), (456, 500)]
> 
> Other operations (removing a value or a sub-span, merging another
> span, etc.) would be useful as well.
> 
> I can see from your reply how range could be useful in the
> implementation, for creating temporary lists of values to work
> with but again, since the spans could be quite long, this
> seems expensive.
> 
> I'm sure that I can implement something like this myself, but
> I was hoping that such a thing already existed, because a) I would
> prefer to not have to re-invent the wheel, and b) existing code
> would almost certainly be better that anything I could write given
> my current (week-old!) knowledge of Python.
> 
> (Also, the fact that the Perl module I mentioned uses Set is not
> really important, it just came up while I was searching --- further
> searching also turned up an Array::IntSpan Perl module.  I'm not
> a Perl guy at all, and attempting to translate code from a language
> that I don't know at all into one that I am just learning strikes me
> as painful :-> )
> 
> If I can't find anything that already does what I'm looking for, I'll go
> ahead and tackle it myself.

Oh, so you wanted something useful??? :-)

Here's a start:

class IntSet:
    def __init__(self, *args):
        self.ints = {}
        self.ranges = []
        for v in args:
            try:
                self.add(*v)
            except TypeError:
                self.add(v)

    def add(self, min, max=None):
        if max is None:
            self.ints[min] = 1
        else:
            self.ranges.append((min, max))

    def __contains__(self, value):
        if self.ints.has_key(value):
            return 1
        for min, max in self.ranges:
            if min <= value <= max:
                return 1
        return 0
    has = __contains__

    def __add__(self, other):
        newset = IntSet()
        newset.ints = self.ints
        newset.ranges = self.ranges
        if type(other) is type(0):
            newset.ints[other] = None
            return newset

        if type(other) is not type(self):
            raise TypeError, "'%s' is not an int or %s" % \
                  (other, self.__class__.__name__)

        newset.ints.update(other.ints)
        newset.ranges = newset.ranges + other.ranges
        return newset

>>> from intset import *
>>> s = IntSet((2, 356), 456, (458, 500))
>>> print s.ranges
[(2, 356), (458, 500)]
>>> n = s + 5
>>> print n.ints
{5: None, 456: 1}
>>> print n.ranges
[(2, 356), (458, 500)]
>>> s + 5.3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "intset.py", line 37, in __add__
    raise TypeError, "'%s' is not an int or %s" % \
TypeError: '5.3' is not an int or IntSet
>>> j = s + n
>>> 457 in j
0
>>> 456 in j
1
>>> 5 in j
1
>>> 2 in j
1
>>> 1 in j
0
>>> s.has(456)
1
>>> s.has(457)
0
>>> s.add(2, 356)
>>> s.add(456)
>>> s.add(458, 500)

I'll let you learn the how to do intersection, etc.  :-) But union is done.

Neal


From netlangau at yahoo.com.au  Sun Mar 10 06:21:53 2002
From: netlangau at yahoo.com.au (Patrick)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:21:53 +1100
Subject: python and haskell for fun
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au>

"Sandy Norton" <sandskyfly at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87 at posting.google.com...
>
> I've just picked up Simon Peyton Jones' book on haskell: "The craft of
> functional programming", and I've just discovered that there's a nice
> aesthetic to haskell that somehow reminds me of python: beautiful
> syntax, significant whitespace, a wonderful obsession with simplicity,
> clarity and readability...
>
> Now, just for fun, I'm thinking how it would be splendid to use these
> two languages together, and make them beget a pretty monster so to
> speak.

When you distil the qualities you like in each language, are there any parts
that don't overlap? If so, perhaps there's a "pretty monster" waiting to be
begotten.

There are a few different ways to look at this, but I suspect that when you
distil and combine the qualities that appeal to you, you'll have a nice set
of overlapping qualities. This subset of PASKELL will be clean, beautiful
and functional. To make it functional in a practical as well as mathematical
sense, you'll need to incorporate a few more carefully chosen features that
give you enormous practical benefits without spoiling the elegant simplicity
you inherited.

By the time you're finished, you'll have a brand new ....




















Python ;-)

At least that's how it seems to me...

(You might also want to look at Lisp).





From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 17:52:22 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 14:52:22 -0800
Subject: Python on W2K server and dos batch files?
References: <3c866f0c$1_2@axion.net> <899f842.0203062032.75b219a7@posting.google.com> <J3Eh8.87834$kb.5458763@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <3C87AFCB.1731B0B5@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <899f842.0203071452.2ac42ddb@posting.google.com>

> Personally, I like wxPython better: I think it produces a more native
> looking app, is faster, and I just like how it is put together better.
> Most of this is just personal preference. The one truly compelling
> reason to use TK is the wonderful canvas widget, but you don't seem to
> have a need for that. At first look, TK seems to be quicker and easier and require less code to build a GUI, but my experience (and that of others) is that while you can through something together faster with TK, once you tweek it to be
> just how you want, and have a full blown application, you have written
> more code than you would with wxPython. 

The application is an admin tool, "A throw away application". Thats
why I recommended TKinter.

If you are going to use the application on multiple machines you don't
need to worry about installing wxPython on each one or writing an
install program. I needed a commercially supported distro which runs
on Solaris and Windows. ActiveState comes only with TKinter. For info:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/


From gerrit.muller at philips.com  Wed Mar  6 07:15:53 2002
From: gerrit.muller at philips.com (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:15:53 +0100
Subject: Reorganizing python.org (was: Why isn't pychecker...)
References: <3C80ED0B.42292C99@tds.net> <m3n0xpwfjq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C83E283.6F030BA1@metaslash.com> <3C841006.634D0059@tds.net> <slrna884ct.kdf.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <3C84299A.20EC85A2@tds.net>
Message-ID: <3C860879.BEC1002B@philips.com>


"Edward K. Ream" wrote:
> 
> Steve Lamb wrote:
> 
> > > Another example, the otherwise superb intro to Tkinter,
> > > http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
> > > would be vastly more useful if it fit on a single page.
> >
> >     Define "page".  If you say 800x600 you'd lose.
> 
> Good question.  How would you define a page in terms of web design?
> 
> Eliminating most if not all scrolling on reference pages seems
> particularly important. Some reference pages seem way too long.  And
> your point is well taken.  I have a large monitor, but I use relatively
> big fonts, so I'm only using 1024x768...
> 
> Edward
<...snip...>
at this moment in time 1024*768 is a reasonable choice; the poor 14" CRT
users will need some scrolling, but all more lucky 15" LCD and 17" CRT
and above will have a scroll free overview.

Gerrit
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerrit Muller                Philips Research Laboratories Eindhoven
Building:   WDC 2 - 007              Prof. Holstlaan 4
Phone: +31 40 27 45242               5656 AA  Eindhoven
Fax:   +31 40 27 45033               The Netherlands
mailto:gerrit.muller at philips.com
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/index.html


From richard at NOstarfighterSPAM.freeuk.com  Tue Mar 19 14:13:34 2002
From: richard at NOstarfighterSPAM.freeuk.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:13:34 -0000
Subject: Extending Python/Tkinter
References: <5acdbd0c.0203190838.20c3733e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1016564981.29368.0@eurus.uk.clara.net>

> I have a C++ class that draws maps that I've been assigned to extend
> into python.  The class uses X primitive calls (XDrawPoint, etc.) to
> do much of the work and I'm at a loss on how to integrate this as an
> extension to Python.  Initially I thought  I could get a drawable,
> display and graphics context from the Tk C API.  Then I saw that
> Tkinter is using the Tcl interpreter and not calling the Tk routines
> directly.  Now I'm lost.  I'm a newbie to Python/Tk/Tcl and hitting
> info overload from looking through so many books and web pages (sorry
> is this is a bad question).  I'm missing something crucial or this
> approach is half-baked or both.
>

Tkinter doesn't have an equivalent of XDrawPoint, but you could use PIL.

I wrote a simple application to display elevation data for the UK. It was
rather slow, but it did the job.

You need the following imports

import Image
import ImageDraw
import ImageTk

Here is my method that creates the image and copies it to a Tkinter Canvas
widget - perhaps you could adapt the concepts:

    def createImage(self):
        """Create an image containing the data from the file """

        m_file = open('uk_map.dat', 'rb')

        self.img = Image.new("RGB", (self.map_width, self.map_height))

        self.photo = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.img)
        self.canvas.create_image(0, 0, anchor=NW, image=self.photo,
tags='img')
        self.canvas.resizescrollregion()

        draw = ImageDraw.Draw(self.img)

        # Fill image with the sea colour
        draw.rectangle((0, 0, self.map_width, self.map_height),
                       fill=self.colours[0])

        for y in range(0, self.map_height):
            for x in range(0, self.map_width):
                b1, b2 = m_file.read(2)
                elev = ord(b1) + 256 * ord(b2)

                if elev > 0:
                    draw.point((x, y), self.colours[elev])

            if y % 50 == 0:
                self.photo = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.img)
                self.canvas.itemconfigure('img', image=self.photo)
                self.canvas.update()

        m_file.close()

        del draw

        self.photo = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.img)
        self.canvas.itemconfigure('img', image=self.photo)
        self.canvas.update()


Hope that is of some use,
RT





From slimey at choc.late.org  Sun Mar 24 18:15:23 2002
From: slimey at choc.late.org (Sly Mee)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:15:23 -0600
Subject: I am TGOS your new ruler
References: <07fcd5f6.3ba05335@tgos.org> <2sjl7a.ap6.ln@hairy.machine.org> <3C9E5402.7070406@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <bmml7a.85b.ln@hairy.machine.org>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:32:35 -0600, Rann Aridorn said:

> Sly Mee wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:46:44 -0600, TGOS said:
>> 
>> 
>>>That's right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking,
>>>brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I'm taking over all of Usenet! There
>>>isn't a fucking thing you can do about it either! You're all a bunch of
>>>worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don't
>>>like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet
>>>history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your
>>>knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self!
>>>
>>>I AM THE GUARDIAN OF SAILOR MOON! LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!
>>>
>>>
>> .....And High Moron of All You Survey!
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Sorry about this. A hipcrimer is trying to cause trouble for
> Alt.Hentai.Sailor-Moon by impersonating one of our regulars. If you care
> to register your displeasure, please do so in the hipcrimer's own
> stomping grounds, alt.mag.hustler
> 
> -Rann

Sorry, but he's doing it all over. Best to ignore him I suppose.

-- 
Any time things appear to be going better, you have overlooked
something.

--- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
--- 1,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
--- Access to over 100 Gigs/Day - $8.95/Month
--- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD



From Ed.Smirnov at mail.ee  Tue Mar 26 11:01:24 2002
From: Ed.Smirnov at mail.ee (Eduard Smirnov)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:01:24 +0200
Subject: Python vs. C/C++/Java: quantitative data ?
Message-ID: <3ca09a43$0$3216$bb624dac@diablo.uninet.ee>

I?m writing a diploma paper on the difference between scripting (e.g. in
Python or Tcl) and system programming (e.g. in C, C++ or Java), and one of
the claims I want to make is that you can often develop applications 10x or
more faster in a scripting language.
I apologue that more applications can be written or re-written in scripting
language faster and with more complex functionality then in system
programming language.
If you have any experience in writing applications in system programming
language (e.g. in C, C++) and re-writing it in scripting language (e.g.
Python) or vice versa, please compare your work in both implementations,
describe your work/application?s functionality, approximate number of lines
and time of development of each implementation, skill?s level needed.
Any more comments about are welcome.

Additional thanks for copy your answer to my e-mail.

Eduard.Smirnov at mail.ee
Tallinn Technical Univercity
Estonia





From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Mar 27 15:49:56 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:49:56 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org> <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com> <mailman.1017255224.10677.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rea4aukt5chibc3rdkedt6h0s1d1dpnngt@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:42:59 -0800, Geoff Gerrietts
<geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:

>Quoting Gon?alo Rodrigues (op73418 at mail.telepac.pt):
>> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:04:50 -0800, Geoff Gerrietts
>> <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:
>> 
>> >Quoting Courageous (jkraska at san.rr.com):
>> >> 
>> >> >I'd say the skills required to write clear, readable
>> >> >software and clear, readable novels are not entirely
>> >> >disjoint!
>> >> 
>> >> Oh certainly not, you just haven't backed up to a big
>> >> enough perspective of the cognitive domain. :)
>> >
>> >I think poetry and code are actually very similar. Some day I may
>> >write a paper on that thesis, but I'm still living the experience
>> >today....
>> 
>> Poetry and coding are similar in that they are both creative activities
>> needing inteligence, imagination, etc. But there is also a world of
>> difference between the two. A simple way to see this is how they relate
>> to their heritage, their common dead.
>
>I think the startling similarity that I see is that code is in many
>ways an extremely strict form of poetry. If you look to things like
>the Perl poetry contests, and even the innumerable obfuscated code
>contests, these are artistic in a way that forms a sort of continuum.
>
>Writing code is a lot like writing a poem, with a vocabulary that is
>extremely restricted and formal requirements that are invariably
>rigid. The sense of meaning one derives from a program is generally
>more pragmatic than what one gets from a poem. But both are
>appreciated as much for what they say as for how they say it. 
>
>One notable difference between programming and poetry is that a
>programming cliche is acceptable, a rote that people are encouraged to
>re-use, whereas dropping someone else's clever turn of phrase into
>your poem is likely to backfire.
>
>I'm still a long way from a thesis, but I think the similarities are
>pretty astounding.
>
>And I don't think I can comment extensively on the "common dead",
>given that poets tend to take about 25 or 50 years to rise to
>prominence, and the widespread practice of programming in 3rd gen
>languages is still somewhat younger than that. I can comment on the
>"common living", though -- Silicon Valley and the Bay Area are both
>full of people who went to school for English and fell into writing
>HTML, Perl, PHP. I can't comment extensively on the quality of the
>code these writers-cum-programmers generate, but I'll bet their
>comments are at least a bit more intelligible -- and I'll bet their
>code is more readable.
>
>I've been programming for a long time -- most of my life at this
>point, and professionally for a bit more than 6 years. But my
>education was in poetry; I was trained as a poet, and somewhat
>successful at it, winning a few awards and being published in some out
>of the way places.
>
>I returned to programming when I realized that I was pretty good at
>writing, but I couldn't bring myself to do it in my spare time -- I
>was instead spending that spare time learning new programming
>languages, or learning Linux system administration. I didn't enjoy
>reading poetry all that much, but I could sit down and read a book on
>OO design or advanced programming techniques without hesitation.
>
>So I respect the differences; there are many, and I've chosen my road
>because of them. But the principal values of poetry: no wasted words,
>clear expression, clever expression, best use of language -- these
>values translate directly into writing code.
>

My comment was made not so much to deride the analogies which you have
pointed out, and with which I agree,  but to stress the differences
which are many and of great import.

And as an example of the differences I gave you the relation that the
living active practicioners (programmers or poets) have with the
heritage that is bestowed on them. Programming, although only a few
decades hold, already has its morcel of history and its heroes - the
demigod hackers - which are respected and revered. But the situation is
totally different in poetry, especially if you are a poet. The type of
respect and reverence given to Shakespeare is of a totally different
kind to that given to Guido van Rossum. Shakespeare has occupied its
place in the space of poetry and he will not suffer to be dislodge.
Shakespeare puts a contingency on all those that follow him because
there is no such thing as "poetry reuse", originality of Voice, of
Expression, of Vision, being THE most important goal for poets. Poetry,
or more generally the arts, are not progressive. My favourite living
prose writer is Thomas Pynchon. Is he a "progress" (on the aestethic
sense, the only one that matters) on Sterne or Dickens? Of course not.
But code, even very god one, is constantly being improved upon. An
anedoctal evidence of this is that code has bugs!

So, to sum things up, I do not disagree with the similarities you have
pointed out - essentially, the sense of beauty in a piece of code,
deriving not just from what you are trying to achieve but in the way you
achieve it - but I wanted to point out the differences and frame them
better.

>Maybe that thesis isn't so many years off, after all....
>
>--G.

Best regards,
Gon?alo Rodrigues



From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Wed Mar 27 13:38:08 2002
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:38:08 +0100
Subject: visual python
References: <20020327104352.12035.00000368@mb-mk.aol.com> <a7sq8i$76a$1@verence.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a7t3hf$lpqu8$1@ID-135695.news.dfncis.de>

I am so sorry ...
... to be french when I see (too often) such indelicate compatriots.

B.

"Paul Wright" <-$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a7sq8i$76a$1 at verence.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article <20020327104352.12035.00000368 at mb-mk.aol.com>,
> Marxdormoy <marxdormoy at aol.com> wrote:
> >downlaod visual python ?  website?
>
> Search engine? Google?
>
> --
> Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |




From abou at cam.org  Fri Mar 29 19:00:19 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:00:19 -0500
Subject: First post!
Message-ID: <3CA50013.3582BC63@cam.org>

Ok, this is my first post on this list. I've been doing simple Python
scripts for a few months but now I have a 'bigger' (IMO) project.
It's as follow: 
I play a MUD called Core 2651 (http://coremurd.org) and in this MUD,
there is a stock market. The various prices are all on the website and
are updated every once in a while. So basically, I want a script that
checks the page for the prices and print the output in a text file. 
I've never done anything that touches the web or internet so I'm really
puzzled. I'm not asking for someone to write it for me (don't spoil the
fun :) but maybe there already are some scripts like that somewhere...
Scripts that parse (is that right?) through a page and get different
infos. I have right here a Perl one that does basically that (but I'm
not a fan of Perl, that's why I'm here) and it seems pretty easy (well,
not for me). 

So, if anyone has tips, links or examples, just let me know.
Thanks in advance,

Zutroi Zatatakowski



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 06:28:28 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:28 +0000
Subject: ht2html project at SourceForge
References: <15515.36115.281626.923961@anthem.wooz.org> <slrna9pid6.2bs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3vgbmj2rr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9uta0.4kd.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <a7o0pf$m8t$1@panix1.panix.com> <3C9FBDB0.7E0BCA16@engcorp.com> <m3vgbj4oo8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaa0mqs.ge9.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 26 Mar 2002 11:19:03 +0100, Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>
>> Maybe it's just the ones who already knew how to do this, who
>> knew how to do this.... ;-)
>
>I guess Barry sort-of expected everybody to know that pointing to
>foo.sf.net should trigger the "SF structure" synapse, so you'd
>immediately know that the CVS can be reached through
>sf.net/projects/foo, which has the CVS link in the standard location.

It certainly wasn't obvious to me.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From jhg at galdon.com  Fri Mar  8 14:25:12 2002
From: jhg at galdon.com (Juan Huertas)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:25:12 +0100
Subject: About deletion of variables in version 2.1
Message-ID: <a6b34h$foj$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>

Hi all.

I'm working with large list or dict an have problems with the deletion and
time of response, this problems does not exist in version 2.0:

Reading a large file and loading to a list:

f=open('c:/xx','rb')
ls=[]
while not eof:
    ln=f.readline()
    ls.append(ln)

This takes 5 seconds (reasonable)

The new instruction:

ls=[] # or del ls

Takes about 10 seconds and use 100% of Memory!!!!

And a continuation repeating the proccess:

while not eof:
    ln=f.readline()
    ls.append(ln)

This takes about 30 seconds !!!

Why? (please aid)

The comprobation is in Windows 2000 and pythonwin

If i try with a new variable, p.e. lx=[] and not refer to ls, the process
take 5 seconds.






From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 21:59:03 2002
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:59:03 -0000
Subject: ANN: Logging Module v0.4 released
References: <2e37dc1.0203201754.50a15e80@posting.google.com> <200203210211.CAA14633@crown.off.ekorp.com>
Message-ID: <00e001c1d084$63095120$652b6992@alpha>

> Having looked at the excellent work being done here, I wonder what's
> happening at the other end of the pipeline. That is, what's listening for
the
> events that the logger is generating? Has anyone got any plans to write a
> logging sink for the other end?

There is a rudimentary logging sink provided (as an example and test
harness) with the distribution - logrecv.py. It can be run to listen for
logging events on TCP, UDP or both.

> The sink would perform the following duties:
>  - accept events from the logging module via all the logging module's
>    handlers
>  - present a display of the events to a user, either graphically or
>    textually (the most basic of these would resemble the UNIX tail -f)
>  - redistribution of events to other targets
>  - filter incoming events, possibly aggregating, possibly dropping
>  - have state which would be affected by the filters and may cause new
>    events to be generated (ie. escalation)
Presently, logrecv.py just logs according to whatever the logging policy is
on the machine where it is running. This allows, for example, logging to
Unix syslogs from an NT-based application, or logging to NT event logs from
a Unix-based application. Most of the functionality you've described above
(e.g. GUI) would be fairly application specific. Certainly, the logging
system delivers (I hope) what is expected of it - accepting events of
interest and passing them flexibly to handlers. Presentation, sophisticated
filtering, aggregation etc. are all in the application domain, and I'd
certainly be interested to hear more about specific applications.

Regards

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.
http://www.red-dove.com/



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  9 09:25:36 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:25:36 -0500
Subject: Q: How can I lock a file in Windows?
References: <Xns91CCD6AD82321AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4> <XBli8.5326$OP.143152@stones> <Xns91CCEA662BCEBAusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3C8A1B60.D4B6ABCA@engcorp.com>

Flavian Hardcastle wrote:
> 
> Graham Ashton <graz at mindless.com> wrote in
> news:XBli8.5326$OP.143152 at stones:
> 
> > On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:06:08 +0000, A.Newby wrote:
> >
> >> Is there another way I can lock the file in Windows?
> >
> > Yes. Try this:
> >
> >   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203
> >
> 
> Thanx! That should work, except I don't seem to have the following
> extension modules ... win32con, win32file, and pywintypes. Any idea where I
> can get them?

Whenever I'm in this situation, I go to google and ask for
a search on something like "win32file python download" and I usually
get an answer...

-Peter


From wealthychef at mac.com  Thu Mar 14 23:26:34 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 20:26:34 -0800
Subject: how to check how many bytes are available to read() ?
Message-ID: <2b57f654.0203142026.68ec3fc7@posting.google.com>

I have a file object f.  I want to know if there are any bytes to read
from it.  I have tried using select.select([], [f], []), but I have
found that select will return [],[f],[] even if there is nothing to
read in f, so that when I call f.readline(), it blocks.
Is there a function or some way i can peer into f and see if it has
any bytes for me?  f is actually someprocess.fromchild, by the way.


From jason at jorendorff.com  Sat Mar  9 13:59:31 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:31 -0600
Subject: should i learn it first ?
In-Reply-To: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEDHDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Qiang.JL wrote:
> I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
> stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two 
> languages to improve my language view. There are two languages are on
> the list: python and C++

Learn C first.

> do i need to learn C/C++ to be a good programmer?

You can be a good Java programmer without knowing C.
You can be a good Python programmer without knowing C.
But every good *all-around* programmer I've met knows C.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From frr at wanadoo.es  Sat Mar  9 05:43:53 2002
From: frr at wanadoo.es (Fernando Rodríguez)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:43:53 +0100
Subject: Tokenize a string or split on steroids
Message-ID: <4lpj8u4nbsoqjf2h4upadti62jh4sf4i59@4ax.com>

I need to tokenize a string using several separator characters, not just one
as split().  

For example, I want a function that returns ['one', 'two'] when given the
string '{one}{two}' .

How can I do this? O:-)

TIA



| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Fernando Rodr?guez   frr at EasyJob.NET 
| http://www.EasyJob.NET/
| Expert resume and cover letter creation system. 
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Mar 20 05:17:06 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 11:17:06 +0100
Subject: how to ask different DNS for gethostbyname?
References: <8de6d3da.0203200204.31b083d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4sn6vilwd.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

koji at twinsun.com (Koji Nobumoto) writes:

> Is there any way to use a DNS which is not looked up
> when I just use the socket.gethostbyname(),  without
> changing /etc/resolv.conf or any system configuration?

No. You need, at a minimum, access to the systems resolver library,
which is not exposed in standard Python. Better yet, you should use a
Python DNS package - that will allow you to use all tuning you want.

Regards,
Martin



From fig at localhost.localdomain  Mon Mar  4 05:01:40 2002
From: fig at localhost.localdomain (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:01:40 -0000
Subject: Converting mailbox formats
References: <o7Fg8.35969$jC3.925924@news1.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <slrna86hfd.jfu.fig@localhost.localdomain>

In article <o7Fg8.35969$jC3.925924 at news1.east.cox.net>, Ron Johnson wrote:
> Are there pythonic methods for converting the MH message header 
> format to the mbox message header format?

Does it need to be in Python?  Check out the packf command which comes
with MH, it will pack your folders into mbox style.

-Stephen


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Mar 30 23:47:47 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:47:47 -0800
Subject: long integers
References: <mailman.1017540760.21438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA694F3.83BF0E17@alcyone.com>

Michael Hall wrote:

> I'm using Python 1.5.2 and am having trouble with long integers when I
> pull data out of a MySQL database using MySQLdb. When I retrieve a
> numeric value from a field with an `int' data type, the value has an
> `L'
> stuck on the end.

There are two standard methods of converting to a string: str and repr. 
repr is for converting to a representational string (nominally how it
would have been parsed, or surrounded in < and > otherwise), and str is
for pretty formatting.  The print statement implicitly converts its
arguments via str, not repr.

> In one script, I worked around this by stripping the L off with:
> 
> var = numeric_id # ("2L")
> var = var[:-1]
> print var
> >> 2

In 1.5.2 you're stuck with this solution; unfortunately, both str and
repr including the L suffix.  This was considered a defect and was fixed
in 2.0; in 2.0 and greater, str does not include the L suffix but repr
stil does.

> var = result[0] # ("2L")
> var = 'var[:-1]'
> print var
> >> var[:-1]

Presumably you meant backquotes here, not forward quotes:  `...` is
requivalent to repr(...).  Forward quotes ('...') are for quoting
strings, so 'var[:-1]' is literally the string "var[:-1]" (not an
evaluation of the expression), but `var[:-1]` is equivalent to
repr(var[:-1]).

Note that some (many?) consider the backquotes unsightly; you're
probably better off using repr.

> Can this be fixed in
> MySQL by changing or modifying the data type, or should I upgrade to a
> later version of Python?

It's fixed in Python 2.0 and up; upgrading and using str will solve the
problem.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Mar 20 13:21:11 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:21:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Attachments to the list/group - OK?  (Was Re: Popular style
 document?)
In-Reply-To: <20020320171852.GI18847@andy.tynant.ftech.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203201016400.2898-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Andy Gimblett wrote:

> I've just noticed that most people seem to embed their code directly
> into their messages.  Is attaching .py files (or any other
> non-binaries) frowned upon around here?

I won't speak for others, but the likelihood of me opening an attachment
to look at code is close to zero... just too annoying. IMO, if it's too
big to gracefully include in the message then attaching it isn't that good
anyway because (1) if you're asking for help nobody is going to read
through that much code and (2) if you're releasing something then it'd be
better posted to the Web (e.g. the Vaults).

-Dave




From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar  9 00:29:01 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 05:29:01 GMT
Subject: wxPython seg faults under RH7.2
Message-ID: <slrna8j7dl.cn0.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

I can not get wxPython to work on a RH7.2 system.

I have gtk 1.2.10 and  wxGTK 2.3.2.1 installed. Gtk came with
RH7.2 and wxGTK was installed from binary RPMs downloaded from
wxwindows.org.

I built and installed wxPython 2.3.2.1 from sources using
Python 2.1.1.  The build/install seemed to work fine, but 
even the most trivial wxPython apps just seg fault.

I next attempted to use SWIG in the wxPython build: I
downloaded SWIG 1.1-883, but the patches that come with
wxPython 2.3.2.1 fail to apply.

Can somebody point me to some documentation that explains how
to get wxPython to work under RH7.2?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I think my CAREER
                                  at               is RUINED!!
                               visi.com            


From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Mon Mar 11 12:04:04 2002
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:04:04 +0100
Subject: DBgrid in python
References: <mailman.1014054238.12896.python-list@python.org> <a6ihmt$2re$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <a6inqc$jae$05$1@news.t-online.com>

DBgrid in pythonOoops ... www.wxwindows.org , certainly ...
  "Harald Schneider" <h_schneider at marketmix.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:a6ihmt$2re$03$1 at news.t-online.com...
  www.wxpython.org
  www.wxpython.org

  You have to install both to get a GUI ...


  Bye,
  Harald

    "Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce" <calves at coelce.com.br> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:mailman.1014054238.12896.python-list at python.org...
    Is there any component in python as DBGrid component in Delphi?! If so, where can I get it?! 

    Thanks, 

    Carlos Alberto 
    COELCE/DPRON-Departamento de Projetos e Obras Norte 
    Fone: 677- 2228 
    e-mail: calves at coelce.com.br 
    \|||/ 
    (o o) 
    --ooo0-(_)-0ooo-- 

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From watkins_no_spam at trendvue.nospam.com  Wed Mar  6 23:59:23 2002
From: watkins_no_spam at trendvue.nospam.com (Michael Watkins)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 04:59:23 GMT
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LsCh8.342$Gi.251057@news0.telusplanet.net>

I can empathize with your quest. I'm fairly new to Python although already
entranced. Coming from several years of PHP, ASP, Jscript yet as little Perl
as possible, I found the Python language and base libraries very refreshing
and complete.

Deciding on an architecture for web work is as you've found, much more
complicated due to all the choices.

Why not just dive in and build a simple app for yourself as a start, it will
teach you much. If you want a simple html templating system, one I use (used
it in PHP as well) is HTMLTMPL ( http://htmltmpl.sourceforge.net ) which is
available for Python and PHP, and uses templates compatible with the Perl
module HTML::TMPL.

That and simple CGI will get you going. To do anything bigger, more complex,
on a public web site you either need to own the box or have a flexible web
hoster to run many of the other systems (mod_python, Zope, etc) that you
have been referenced to.

Get your feet wet and have some fun!

"Julio Nobrega" <inerte at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6 at posting.google.com...
> Hi!
>
>   So, I am looking for examples that might help me. Yes, I saw Zope.
> Waaaaay too much. Also read Web Programming Topic Guide on python.org,
> way less practical than I like. Picky, ain't I? :-)
>





From joonas at olen.to  Tue Mar  5 10:28:03 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:28:03 GMT
Subject: Problem with popen() and a regular expression
References: <3C84BD5C.3050901@bath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3C84E363.6020106@olen.to>

Simon Willison wrote:
> I've written a simple Python script to scan a bunch of URLs for "live" 
> sites and grab the title of those pages. It works by using popen() to 
> call lynx and analyse the HTTP response:
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> command = "/opt/bin/lynx -mime_header http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"

Use:

command=["/opt/bin/lynx","-mime_header","http://www.bath.ac.uk/~"+user+"/"]

for better security.



From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar 13 20:02:10 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:02:10 +0900
Subject: How do you protect the source code of python applications?
References: <3C8C6EC5.8080308@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <gsSj8.256$ID.895@news.hananet.net>

husam penned with his keyboard:
> Is there a way to protect the source code of applications written with
> python?
> 

License it with the GPL. That will ensure that anyone who uses it has to 
make their software free as well. No one has successfully taken source code 
from a GPL project and put it in their own closed-source prorietary project.

If you transfer the copyright on your software to the FSF, they will defend 
the license in court for you for free as well (like they are doing for 
MySQL right now).

Jonathan

PS - Yes, this is half in jest. But you ask a question... =)




From kp87 at lycos.com  Fri Mar  8 04:50:13 2002
From: kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 01:50:13 -0800
Subject: Voss 1/f noise algo help
Message-ID: <5e8bd451.0203080150.44a259ce@posting.google.com>

Hi I have a couple of attempts below at the beginnings of a 1/f^2
Noise generator. It is in a sort of heavily commented psuedo Python
(somewhat translated from PASCAL) You can see that there are some
areas where i am in way over my head.  I may have introduced a mistake
or two as well. Anyone familiar with Voss's algorithym want to help
smooth out the rough edges here? It sure would be nice to be able to
generate pink noise values in Python (brownian noise would be good
too, I am trying  to work something up on that too).

Back to the books,

<kp>


# An attempt to get R. F. Voss's algorithm ported to python

import random

def one_over_f (n=128):
	'''generates a sequence with a 1/f spectrum
	
	n determines the number of random generators and length of sequence
	'''
	seq_length = 2**n 		# Compute length of output sequence
	random_max = 1.0/n		# Set scale factor for random generators
	previous_seq_index = (seq_length - 1) 	# Initialize the previous
index value
	seq_index = 0		# Generate the 1/f seq
	while seq_index < seq_length:
		output_value = 0		# Generate output loop
		i = 0
		# Bit check loop
		# Compare bit 1 of seq_index with that of previous_seq_index
		# If they are not the same, generate new random number.
		while i < n:
			if bit_compare(i, seq_index) != bit_compare(i, previous_seq_index):
				values[i] = random(O, random_max)
			output_value = output_values + values[i]
			i = i + 1
			# End bit check loop
		previous_seq_index = seq_index
		seq_index = seq_index + 1
	return output-value
	
# ----

# def oneoverf(npts=128):
# 	nbits = 1
# 	np = 1
# 	nr = npts	# float
# 	nr = nr/2.0
# 	while nr > 1:
# 		nbits = nbits + 1
# 		np=2*np
# 		nr=nr/2
# 	for(kg=0; kg<nbits; kg++)
# 		rg[kg]=fran() #get random
# 	for(k=0; k<npts; k++)
# 		threshold=np
# 		ng=nbits
# 		while(k%threshold != 0):
# 			ng--
# 			threshold=threshold/2
# 		sum = 0
# 		for (kg=0; kg<nbits; kg++
# 			if(kg <ng):
# 				rg[kg] = fran()
# 			sum+=rg[kg]
# 		seqout[k]=sum/nbits
# 		
# 		# outputs scaled to range of 0 to 1
		
def oneoverf(npts=128):
	nbits = 1
	np = 1
	nr = npts	# float
	nr = nr/2.0
	while nr > 1:
		nbits = nbits + 1
		np=2*np
		nr=nr/2
	kg = 0
	while kg<nbits:
		rg[kg]=random.random() # get random
		kg = kg + 1
	k = 0
	while k<npts:
		threshold=np
		ng=nbits
		while k%threshold != 0 :
			ng = ng - 1
			threshold = (threshold/2)
		sum = 0
		kg=0
		while kg<nbits:
			if(kg <ng):
				rg[kg] = random.random()
			sum+=rg[kg]
		kg = kg +1
		k = k +1
		seqout[k]=sum/nbits
		
		# outputs scaled to range of 0 to 1


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar 30 18:07:08 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 00:07:08 +0100
Subject: list of functions
References: <01rp8.34168$tg4.401910@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns91E21604854Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"John" <nobody at nobody.com> wrote in 
news:01rp8.34168$tg4.401910 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu:
> I was glad to find that Python allows the following:
> 
> def addone(a): return a+1
> list_of_functions=[addone]
> list_of_functions[0](1)  --> returns 2
> 
> However, what if the functions require more than one arguments? say
> def addall(a,b,c): return a+b+c?
> Though list_of_functions[0](1,2,3) works, I'd like to make (1,2,3) as
> variables.. How do I pass the variables to such functions?

like that:
>>> a=1;b=2;c=3
>>> list_of_functions[0](a,b,c)
or 
>>> l = (1,2,3)
>>> apply(list_of_functions[0],l) 

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From lenny.self at attbi.com  Fri Mar  8 00:57:50 2002
From: lenny.self at attbi.com (Lenny Self)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 05:57:50 GMT
Subject: List of Dictionaries
References: <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550@posting.google.com> <3C88186F.6BEFA3D2@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <ypYh8.1183$m%1.1257@sccrnsc02>

Here's a chunk of the real code.

f = open("c:/test.dbx", "rb")
msgs = ReadOEFile(f) # Using 3rd party code to get email out of an Outlook
mailbox

masterList = []

for mesg in msgs:
    email = Read_OE_Message(f, mesg.position) # returns a string containg an
individual email
    data = MailData(email).getOrderInfo() # Looks though email and sucks out
important information and returns it as a dictionary
   # if I print the data variable here It shows data from each of the
messages (all unique)
    masterList.append(data)
    # If I print the masterList dictionary here it has the right number of
elements in the list but they are all the same.

Each of the origional dictionaries containd the following key:value pairs
being appended to the masterList looks something like this.

{'sku': 'BIO-09', 'city': 'Rancho Palos Verdes', 'shipMethod': 'media mail',
'shipTo': '3456 Address Dr.', 'listingID': '38fh49dhfm4', 'zip': '90275',
'shippedby': 'email at address.com', 'url': 'url.goes.here.com', 'country':
'USA', 'address2': '', 'timeOfSale': '02-07-2002 09:27:35', 'buyerEmail':
'another.email at address.com', 'purchaseDate': '02-07-2002 09:27:35', 'item':
'The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt  by Morris, Edmund', 'state': 'CA',
'transaction': '700106169851', 'buyerName': 'Someone S. Name', 'address1':
'1234 Address Lane, 'condition': 'Good'}

An interesting piece of info is that when I append a subset of this data,
say just to key value pairs it works  Like just:

{'sku':'BIO-09','item':'The Rise of Theodore Roosivelt by Morris, Edmund'}

Same code just smaller dictionary.  Could I be surpassing some sort of
limit.  I woudn't think this dictionry is that big.

Thanks again for your help.

    -- Lenny

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3C88186F.6BEFA3D2 at alcyone.com...
> Lenny Self wrote:
>
> > When I add the first dictionary element to the list all is well.  When
> > I add the second element to the list both the first and second element
> > reference the second dictionary that was added.  The behavior
> > continues whenever I add an element.  So, if I add, say 50
> > dictionaries, all of the listes elements reference the last dictionary
> > I added.
> >
> > I don't have the code with me right now, but I can assure you it is
> > easy as this:
>
> The problem you're having crucially depends on you doing something wrong
> in the details of your implementation.  You're going to have to show us
> the _exact_ code that is causing this problem or it will be impossible
> to help you.
>
> --
>  Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ Laws are silent in time of war.
> \__/ Cicero
>     Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
>  An Esperanto reference for English speakers.




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar  3 20:08:44 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:08:44 +1300
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015021205.11416.python-list@python.org> <dLVf8.27339$jC3.696665@news1.east.cox.net> <a5pmvd$fic$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <1cef615e.0203021254.6bf3658@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C82C91C.A60B3242@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

"Hernan M. Foffani" wrote:
> 
> But I fail to see how to apply this solution naturally on sets that have
> several different main 'walking' directions like arrays or like the sample
> in the PEP. If the 'table' object has symmetry between two (or more) axes,
> then
>         indici(table)
> is ambiguous.

An optional second argument indicating which dimension 
you want the indices for.

  for i in indices(myarray, 0):
    for j in indices(myarray, 1):
      ...

or for more abstract notions of dimension:

  for i in indices(mytable, "rows"):
    for j in indices(mytable, "cols"):
      ...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From altis at semi-retired.com  Mon Mar  4 17:16:07 2002
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:16:07 -0800
Subject: Win32 2.2 & 2.1.2
References: <Uu$EsXAKB6g8EwJf@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <a608p5$anptk$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <AmSg8.96$Hp1.92944@news.uswest.net>

> 2. Install 2.2, then change the file associations to use 2.1.2.

And the file associations are under the Tools->Folder Options menu of the
Explorer. I think the actual dialog probably differs depending on which
version of Windows you're using (I mostly use Win2K), but somewhere in the
dialog should be a File Types tab and then a button to edit the associations
for a given extension; this is done with the dialog brought up by the
Advanced button in Win2K. You shouldn't have to actually dig into the
registry with regedit.

ka




From smonica at compuserve.com  Sat Mar 23 21:44:53 2002
From: smonica at compuserve.com (Sexy Monica)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:44:53 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Customer, Instant Pleasures, Volume 2002
Message-ID: <UTC200203240244.DAA24188@hera.cwi.nl>

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From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Mar  7 04:06:23 2002
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:06:23 +0300
Subject: Python daemon instead of CGI programs
In-Reply-To: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com>; from writeson@earthlink.net on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 02:44:03PM -0800
References: <88bc63c6.0203061444.30ad9c44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020307120623.H17563@phd.pp.ru>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 02:44:03PM -0800, Doug Farrell wrote:
> I'm of the opinion this is akin to killing a fly with a sledgehammer
> and am thinkin of some other mechanism. One thought that occurred to
> me was to create a Python daemon that has a thead pool, a pipe pool
> and all the CGI functionality built into classes that could be run by
> a thread.

   PersistenCGI or FastCGI.

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From grante at visi.com  Thu Mar  7 21:15:06 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 02:15:06 GMT
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org> <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.1015496653.15042.python-list@python.org> <TXLh8.15020$N7.3388991@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.1015545375.27073.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna8g7m2.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1015545375.27073.python-list at python.org>, Marco Herrn wrote:

>> If a function expects a parameter, then it should show up in
>> the function definition.  Methods are just functions whose
>> first parameter is expected to be an object reference.
> 
> Hmm, ok. All you say seems right to me. But what is a bit strange is,
> that I explicitly have to implement 'self', but don't give it as argument.

Ah, but you do.  You just put it before the name of the
function:

  objectName.methodName()
      |           |
      |            \_ This is the function name
       \
        \_ This is the "self" parameter      

The object who's name is "objectName" also defines the
namespace(s) which are to be searched for "methodName".

> If a have a method with the defininion 'f(self)' I call this method only
> with 'f()'.

Nope.  You can't call f like that.  You have to do either
  objName.f()
or
  f(objName) 

> So the declaration doesn't look the same like the call.

  It can, if you want.

> So you think it will stay this way, that one has to implement
> it for himself. That's ok. I can live with that. But I don't
> see any disadvantage, when changing the language so that a
> 'self' statement is always available.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If I felt any more
                                  at               SOPHISTICATED I would DIE
                               visi.com            of EMBARRASSMENT!


From kragen at pobox.com  Thu Mar 14 16:48:13 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 16:48:13 -0500
Subject: new to python - please help
References: <mailman.1015958843.31303.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <837koen7mq.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

"Jason Orendorff" <jason at jorendorff.com> writes:
> Rule #1:  Post real code.
> 
> I can't make heads or tails of your post because all
> that code is so broken.  :-/  It's got syntax errors.

I feel like I just walked into comp.lang.perl.misc circa 1998.



From dk at flexis.de  Thu Mar 28 14:57:37 2002
From: dk at flexis.de (domi)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:57:37 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser -> Section name through Option value
Message-ID: <3CA375B1.9070802@flexis.de>

Hi,

can somebody help me with this ConfigParser (ini-file) problem:
Is it possible to get a Section name through an Option value 
(ConfigParser), e.g.:

[foo]
name = python
...

how can I get the section name 'foo' through the option value 'python'?
Any idea???

thanks dominik



From garry at sage.att.com  Tue Mar  5 10:45:08 2002
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:45:08 GMT
Subject: Hosting
References: <283adf56.0202201551.7026d548@posting.google.com> <3C838FDA.5016804F@sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <3C84E804.4484327F@sage.att.com>

Garry Hodgson wrote:
> 
> Kevin Dahlhausen wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of an inexpensive web host that allows compilation
> > and use of Python extensions from  your own directory?
> 
> i've been happy with http://www.your-site.com/
> 
> 50 MB Disk Space, 25 POP3 E-Mail Accounts,
> 6 Gigs Transfer, Daily Tape back-ups,
> E-Mail Control Panel, Frontpage 2000 Extensions,
> Private Logs, RealAudio & RealVideo
> Detailed Statistics, 99.9% Guaranteed Uptime,
> 24/7 FTP Access, your own cgi-bin directory.
> 
> i can login using telnet or ssh and futz around with
> directory structures, compile code, etc.  i left my
> previous host because their support was poor.  these
> folks have been very responsive, the few times i've had
> questions.

i forgot to mention, all this is $5/month.

-- 
Garry Hodgson                   Let my inspiration flow
Senior Hacker                      in token rhyme suggesting rhythm
Software Innovation Services    that will not forsake me
AT&T Labs                          'til my tale is told and done.
garry at sage.att.com


From paulsid at shaw.ca  Sat Mar 30 18:40:10 2002
From: paulsid at shaw.ca (Paul Sidorsky)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:40:10 -0700
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type: yes, but not as int subtype
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
 <3CA62CD8.6ABD44D0@accessforall.nl>
Message-ID: <3CA64CDA.2AE2B235@shaw.ca>

Ype Kingma wrote:

> A bool is a bool and an int is an int.
> The only relation between them is that they have to be implemented using
> bits of a computer.
> Python is sufficiently high level not to care about the bits.

Wow, wait long enough and somebody will say exactly what you're
thinking.  I pretty much agree 100% with everything Ype wrote.

I am totally in favour of a boolean type.  Writing "value = 1" instead
of "value = True" has seemed wrong ever since I started with Python.  I
feel it important to add a definitive "yea" on this since there has been
quite a bit of resistance to this PEP so far.  However, while I think
it'd be great to have a bool type, I think it would be even better to
see it done "right" from the start.

>From what I have read on python-dev it looks as if the desire to mix
ints and bools stems mainly from wanting to preserve backward
compatibility.  However, it seems to me that allowing ints and bools to
be interchanged somewhat is going to create a lot of situations where
the two of them get mixed in the same module.  Old code will use ints,
while newer changes and additions will use True/False as programmers get
used to using them in new projects.  Maintaining these kind of modules
is going to be hell until somebody finally decides to correct everything
to the new style.  If this is going to be done anyhow, why not at least
force people it to be done right the first time?  People may gripe at
first at having to upgrade code, but in the end they'll be better off
than if they hadn't.

Hmmm, this seem like a good time to share my own horror story about what
can happen when you mix ints and bools.  This was in C (not C99 though)
so there was no bool type - just like Python is now.

I had a program that was storing a bunch of values, and in one part I
needed to know if just one particular value was there or not, so of
course I had assigned that value 0 and exploited the fact that I could
use "!value" to test for it quickly.  I needed this result a few times
so I assigned it to a variable.

Some time later I was adding features and found that in one case I
needed to know exactly what the value was, so I modified that part of
the program to use the same variable to store the actual value instead
of a truth value.  This meant that what was 0 (false) would now be a
positive integer, and vice-versa.  This must have slipped my mind
because I got the assignment the wrong way around.

This should have broken the program immediately, except that when I was
converting the the rest of this part of the program I had missed a
negation of the old value.  The result was essentially that of applying
"value = !(!value)".  The program still worked WRT the old truth checks,
but was completely unable to determine the actual value where I wanted
it to because the value could only be 0 or 1.  Needless to say, it took
a very long time to track this problem down.

This would never have happened if bools and ints were separate types. 
The extra negation would have meant I was trying to assign a bool to an
int and caused an error immediately.  Furthermore, I almost certainly
would never have _tried_ such a twisted approach to begin with.  I did
it the way I did because in C I _could_ do it that way.

Mixing ints and bools doesn't offer enough protection in my mind.  A
boolean type that can be partially interchanged with an int might have
prevented my nightmare above from happening, but not necessarily.  As I
said, though, a separate boolean type would have prevented this kind of
error from even compiling.  Having that kind of protection built into
the language is very appealing, at least to me.

I admit that in this case above the problem was ultimately the result of
my own stupidity.  However, if programmers weren't stupid the odd time
we wouldn't even need languages like Python because we'd all be able to
program in perfect C.  Heck, we might not even need C because we could
program in perfect assembly.  Given that we're not pefect, the job of a
high-level language should be to provide more protection for programmers
not from lower-level languages, but from themselves.

-- 
======================================================================
Paul Sidorsky                                          Calgary, Canada
paulsid at shaw.ca                        http://members.shaw.ca/paulsid/



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Mar 20 04:45:04 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:45:04 -0300
Subject: ANN: python-bz2 1.0
Message-ID: <20020320064504.A2142@ibook.distro.conectiva>

This is the README file of python-bz2.

Description
-----------

The python bz2 module provides a comprehensive interface for
the bz2 compression library. It implements a complete file
interface, one shot (de)compression functions, and types for
sequential (de)compression.


Features
--------

python-bz2 provides the following features:

o  Support for Python newstyle classes, allowing subclassing;
o  BZ2File implements complete file interface, including readline(),
   readlines(), xreadlines(), writelines(), seek(), etc;
o  BZ2File implements emulated seek() support;
o  BZ2File developed inheriting builtin file type
   (isinstance(BZ2File(), file) == 1);
o  Sequential (de)compression supported by BZ2Compressor and
   BZ2Decompressor types;
o  One shot (de)compression supported by compress() and decompress()
   functions;
o  Complete inline documentation;
o  Thread safety uses individual locking mechanism;
o  Comprehensive unit tests.


License
-------

This module is licensed under the terms of LGPL, read LICENSE for
further information.

Some portions of code included in the module were based on code included in
Python. These parts are clearly stated in the code, and are copyrighted by
Python Software Foundation, and licensed under PSF's own license. Read
LICENSE-PSF for further information.


New Versions
------------

Information on how to retrieve new versions of python-bz2 can be
found on http://python-bz2.sf.net


Credits
-------

The python-bz2 module was developed by Gustavo Niemeyer.

Some portions of code included in the module were based on code included in
Python. These parts are clearly stated in the code, and are copyrighted by
Python Software Foundation, and licensed under PSF's own license. Read
LICENSE-PSF for further information.


-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Mar 12 13:11:19 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:11:19 -0800
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <mailman.1015157045.20421.python-list@python.org> <a5uf3q$vbh$0@216.39.172.122> <3C8523F8.38715E45@ccvcorp.com> <a67ehl$uhi$0@216.39.172.122> <LzOh8.86851$Dh.8018743@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <a6912n$jnt$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3C8E44C6.E89FF302@ccvcorp.com>


Bengt Richter wrote:

> The problem to solve is not constructing an arbitrary-valued string
> by writing an escaped sequence adhering to current python string syntax.
> That can be done, as you show.
>
> The problem is to do it by using an existing source of text, without
> changing the text, and without using an external file to delimit it.

My take on all of this is:

1)  Only when dealing with Python source code or raw binary data is it likely
that triple quotes will be found.  Raw binary data is better expressed entirely
in quoted hex or octal form, anyhow, to make it clear that it *is* binary, so
this change is really only beneficial when quoting Python code.

2)  Only when cutting and pasting large sections of Python code (small sections
are unlikely to have multiline quotes) to be used as string literals in other
Python code, does this quoting problem arise.  One can read from a file, import
another module, read from a database, etc, etc, without having much worry here;
cutting and pasting seems the only case where quotation issues come into play.

3)  The need to use arbitrary Python code as a string literal is... well...
rather abstruse.  It is not something that comes up often, and (ISTM) is
confined to relatively specialized tasks.  (I can't think of anything other than
that code generator you mentioned, and even there, I wouldn't think that
*arbitrary* code would be desirable...)

4)  Python code that uses both ''' and """ within reasonably-sized stretches of
code is pretty rare.

5)  Because of (4), most cases of cutting and pasting Python code into string
literals can be handled simply by choosing the style of triple quotes that the
source doesn't use.  To be honest, your example of quoting a segment of code
that includes a quoted segment of code seems rather artificial and contrived; I
find it hard to imagine a case where this would be desirable, and (ISTM) odds
are that any such case would likely be served as well (or better) by some other
technique (such as the aforementioned data files, etc.)

6)  In most cases where it *is* desirable to quote large sections of Python
code, you'd want to be reviewing and modifying and tidying the code *anyhow*.
During such tidying, it would not be difficult to normalize the quoted text to
use all the same type of triple quotes, or (if they're nested) change one type
to be represented as escaped hex.  (Note again, as per (4), nested triple quotes
seem to be rare.)

7)  As a result of all of this, there seem to be vanishingly few cases in which
quoting reasonably sized sections of text to use as string literals, can't be
accomplished through the use of standard triple quotes.  Only when triple quotes
are nested within the source text, or when it's impractical to see *what* you're
quoting (and why are you quoting it if you don't know what it is?), would the
standard triple quotes be insufficient.

8)  If we *had* this arbitrary-delimited quote, then many people would feel that
they should be used everywhere, even though triple quotes would often do the job
just as well (and far more clearly).  For example, note how many people want to
use eval() and exec to accomplish things that can be done far more simply,
cleanly, and safely by using a standard module.  I'm sure that the same would
happen with arbitrary delimiters.  Not only that, but I can well imagine people
choosing "clever" delimiters that, while being unique enough to be parseable,
don't stand out visibly enough to make it easily apparent where the particular
quoted string ends.  (As per your previous example, it took me over a minute to
figure out where those quotes ended;  with triple quotes, it takes me about a
second.  That's almost two orders of magnitude difference -- to me, that's
significant confusion.)

In short, I see the need for arbitrarily-delimited string literals to be a very
rare, and very specialized thing, and providing special core syntax to deal with
this rare special case is both unnecessary and likely to create lots of
opportunity for confusion.  And (ISTM) there is only one of your conditions
which makes current Python syntax unsuitable for the usage you're envisioning --
the desire to not have to actually examine what you're cutting and pasting.
(Note that, if you're doing this a lot, it shouldn't be too hard to have a smart
editor examine pasted text and create a suitable string literal that can be
normally triple-quoted.)  Python is intended to be simple and clean; this
proposal is (IMHO) neither.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Tue Mar  5 10:24:59 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:24:59 +0100
Subject: Get reference to "owner"
References: <JLZg8.4941$sK.132548@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <20020305072655.GA1525@lilith.hqd-internal> <mailman.1015314249.8983.python-list@python.org> <625h8.3294$tg2.206482@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3C84E34B.1010009@bigfoot.de>

Robert Oschler wrote:
> Gerhard,
> 
> Excellent!!!  Never expected to find a language that could do this and it
> something I've wanted very badly for a long time.  Yes that's exactly what I
> meant.  B knows about the A that owns it without having to artificially pass
> a reference of A to B during construction.

So, if we're really the first ones to invent and implement this pattern, 
how do we name the baby?

The Borg name seems to be already taken ;-)

Gerhard



From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Mon Mar 18 09:57:51 2002
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:57:51 -0500
Subject: bug reporting
Message-ID: <002301c1ce8d$6a2980e0$0334fea9@carol>

>Yes, that is sort of what I am hoping for, when I post stuff here. I've
>gotten a lot of "submit it as a bug report" responses, more recently.
>Anyhow, the one in the thread you continued this from...I have now
>submitted it as a bug report. However, as I continue to work on this
>problem (sort of trying to see if I can fix it or at least see if I can
>understand what's causing it), I'm not so sure it will end up to be a bug
>report after all. It may end up to be a problem in my own code.  :/

I ended  up posting my issue up to the tutor list, where Danny Yoo picked
it up and did the kind of analysis I wouldn't know how to undertake.

I know you are active there - so assumedly you saw it.  Danny has helped
me before, and I was actually figuring I might get his attention to the 
problem by posting on tutor. 

He concluded:

"In any case, this is definitely a bug in the documentation.  Arthur, bring
it up on comp.lang.python and Sourceforge again.  Someone should really
look at your example, since it does seem serious... if not a little
obscure.  *grin*"

I have posted the issue up to sourceforge (but didn't get a nice
"submission received" kind of message at the end of the process -
hope it made it)

Must admit some perverse satisfaction in uncovering something
that perhaps has some significance. Bit of a Pythonic
coming of age.

And thanks, Danny.

Art





From klaatu at evertek.net  Fri Mar  8 16:56:13 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:56:13 -0600
Subject: Is current integer for-loop syntax a wart?
In-Reply-To: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>; from jcromwell@ciena.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:26:00AM -0800
References: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00234@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>
Message-ID: <20020308155613.B1212@evertek.net>

Probably somewhere between Wart? and Not a wart.  Python's for loop is
very different from that present in C, or any of its derivitave
languages.  If we don't try to make it the same, it doesn't cause
problems (for me, at least).

Most of my Python programming has been short, many times one-time
scripts for things like data laundering, but never have I had to use
range().  I don't see how it's a problem, and seeing the arguments
caused by any solution hitherto proposed, I don't think it's worth
making a change to the language in this regard.  And every time 'special
cases' has come up (which seems to be quite common in this particular
debate), it's made me think of my recent, brief, and unpleseant journey
into the land of Perl.  Let's not take Python that direction...

-Mike


* Cromwell, Jeremy <jcromwell at ciena.com> [2002-08-03 10:26]:
> PEP 276 (Simple Iterator for ints) and PEP 284 (Integer for-loops), among
> others, are written from the perspective that the current integer for-loop
> syntax
> 
>     for i in range(10):
> 
> is a wart.  Is this true?  That is, where does the Python community stand on
> this issue?
> 
> If you will, please start your response by placing your description of the
> syntax in one of these categories.
> 
> -Major wart
> This is painful to type and I would support almost any type of improvement.
> 
> -Wart
> I don't like the current syntax and would like to see an improvement, but I
> could care less.
> 
> -Wart?
> What's wrong with it?  I guess it could be improved but I never thought
> about it.
> 
> -Not a wart
> This is the most pythonic way to write an integer for loop.  I would oppose
> almost any change.
> 
> Not to bias the results, but I'd be just as interested to hear from the
> "Wart?" group as any other.
> 
> References
> PEP 276, Simple Iterator for ints
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0276.html
> PEP 284, Integer for-loops
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0284.html
> 
> -Jeremy Cromwell
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Tue Mar 26 14:37:16 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:37:16 +0100
Subject: Primes....
Message-ID: <sca0dc09.054@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

I am looking for a way(either by finding a module online, or by getting
some helpfull hints on how to write this myself) to generate **large**
prime numbers. All help is appreciated(Id rather write the code myself
since I tend to like understanding the code that I use, but if the math
is too heavy I'll have to use other code...)

/Fredrik



From serge at rohan.sdsu.edu  Sun Mar 17 13:22:51 2002
From: serge at rohan.sdsu.edu (Serge Rey)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:22:51 -0800
Subject: why python for the academe?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.03.16.21.57.06.459839.73515@snet.net>
References: <mailman.1016330427.15737.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.03.16.21.57.06.459839.73515@snet.net>
Message-ID: <20020317182251.GM19278@typhoon.sdsu.edu>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 02:57:06AM +0000, Paul Magwene wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:00:57 -0500, huck wrote:
> 
> > hello all,
> > 
> > i've been lurking for a while and am amused at how many people in the
> > list here use python for scientific computing. why not matlab (or octave
> > or scilab or whatever)?
> > 
> > 
> 
> Speaking only for myself of course - flexibility, extensibility,
> readability, and "shareability"

-snip- of good points.

i would add to the shareability aspect by considering that my students
can download python for free. while the same holds for octave and
scilab, octave has been a bit more difficult for students to get
installed on windows. scilab is a bit easier to install, but there again
you do not have as flexible/extensible/readabile  a language as you do
with python (+numpy).

plus, python is just more fun :) 
-- 
Serge Rey	http://typhoon.sdsu.edu/rey.html
Nature is the realization of the simplest conceivable mathematical
ideas.  - Albert Einstein
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From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Mar 27 05:20:27 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:20:27 +0000
Subject: Tkinter -> spawn external cmd -> return stdout and stderr to back    Tkinter
References: <3CA0A490.4C88C20C@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a7s2kf$24at$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Fabien Henon wrote:
[snip]
> I use 'spawnv' to fire up POV to start it as a new process. Which
> command should I use to get interactive stdout and stderr back to my
> Tkinter
> application.(do you have any running examples of popen ? the doc is not
> clear)

I'd use popen3, popen4 or popen (like you apparently tried to do...). The 
one you choose depends on what you want to do with the command's stdin, 
stdout and stderr. The simplest is popen4, which returns two opened pipes: 
one opened for writing on the external command's stdin (which you 
apparently won't need), the other opened on the external command's stdout 
and stderr. These pipes are then manipulated like any file opened with the 
same mode. Try:

cmdIn, cmdOut = os.popen4("ls")
print cmdOut.readlines()

If you need to separate the command's stdout from its stderr, use popen3, 
which returns 3 opened pipes: one on the command's stdin (opened for 
writing), one on the command's stdout and one on its stderr (both opened 
for reading). Try:

cmdIn, cmdOut, cmdErr = os.popen3("grep foo *")
print cmdOut.readlines()
print cmdErr.readlines()

Be careful with this one! Since you often can't predict in what order the 
command will print to its stdout and stderr, you may encounter deadlocks 
with popen3. Use it only if you're sure that there will be something on 
both stdout and stderr.

You may also mix two of your solutions by using popen with a redirection:

cmdOut = os.popen("command 2> /tmp/cmderr.txt", 'r')
print cmdOut.readlines()

Since you don't use the command's stdin, the plain popen may be enough for 
your needs. With this solution, you get the command's output directly in 
cmdOut, and to get the command's stderr, you just have to read the file 
/tmp/cmderr.txt. As far as I can see, this may be the best solution for 
you're trying to do...

> I also would like to be able to stop the raytrace when it is started.

To do this, you need to use the *classes* Popen3 or Popen4 in the popen2 
module. These classes are used by the popen2/3/4 functions on Unix, and 
have an attribute giving the process id of the running process. So if you 
want to stop it, you just have to kill it using os.kill. See the module 
popen2 in the library reference. My advice would be to have it working with 
the functions before trying to use the classes...

> I heard about subproc. I can't get to find it in ftp.python.org

Don't know anything about that...

HTH. Bonne chance! Tu risques d'en avoir besoin...
 - eric -



From mxl at fluent.com  Thu Mar 14 17:26:06 2002
From: mxl at fluent.com (Mohammed Lazreg)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:26:06 -0500
Subject: [q]Mouse event
References: <lLtj8.29195$tg4.341145@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <3C91237D.12B221DD@fluent.com>

Just bind your events to create an entry in a file containing the event
information....

You might want to take a look at :
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/events-and-bindings.htm

Actually there is a nice idea behind this: you can bind all the events of the
application to register their callback in a file. Next time you run your
application you can source this file to watch your application doing exactly
what you were doing in the previous run..... This might lead to automatic gui
regression testing between two different releases of the same
application......

Mohamed

John wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is there any way to record Mouse events (click, double click, and etc.) on
> the applications running, using Python?
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> This message has been 'sanitized'.  This means that potentially
> dangerous content has been rewritten or removed.  The following
> log describes which actions were taken.
>
> [ score: 10 ]
> 00000   Split long word(s) in header.
>
> Anomy 0.0.0 : sanitizer.pl
> $Id: sanitizer.pl,v 1.35 2001/02/01 00:10:46 bre Exp $




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Wed Mar  6 18:05:14 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:05:14 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
Message-ID: <OFC71BC4BE.EAF9E576-ON88256B74.007E51AC@i2.com>

[Bernhard Herzog]
> That's not quite right, I think :)
>
> [f(x)
>  for x in range((4 in range(3)) in range((2 in range(3))))
>    if x in range((x+1 in range(x*2)))]
>
> would me more like it (but it's late so there may still be a mistake :) )

Thanks (I think <wink>).


[James Althoff]
> Can you suggest a less contrived example that might be a problem?
[Bernhard Herzog]
> x, = 1
>
> would assign 0 to x instead of raising an error.

Agreed.  Note that this example has been in the PEP from the beginning.

Jim




From mkelleghan at ElectricImage.com  Thu Mar 14 20:27:36 2002
From: mkelleghan at ElectricImage.com (Mike)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 17:27:36 -0800
Subject: How much trouble will I get into ...
Message-ID: <1a8cc73d.0203141727.b19f149@posting.google.com>

... if I remove GUSI from Mac Python?

I've got a monster app we're trying to embed Python into and having
GUSI's version of file I/O along with the MacOS version is just not
happening.  Any words of wisdom appreciated.

thanx

Mike :-)


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 11:07:04 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:07:04 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <mailman.1017557628.22081.python-list@python.org> <a877p1$sns$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA73428.C5770D47@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.1017557628.22081.python-list at python.org>,
> Nick Arnett <narnett at mccmedia.com> wrote:
> >
> >Would sgmllib, htmllib and urllib count as two or three?  I mention the
> >first two partly because they could benefit from some teaching; I had to
> >stare at examples for a while before I grasped what was going on.  All three
> >replaced quite a lot of my old Perl.  Does Tkinter/Pmw count as an
> >extension?
> 
> Pmw does, but that's the only one.  Sorry for not making clear that I
> was specifically referring to 3rd-party extensions.

I've found calldll very useful.  And standalone ZODB.  And wxPython.


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar  7 20:21:15 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:21:15 -0600
Subject: Seek fame(*) & fortune(**) as a Python developer
In-Reply-To: <DcUh8.36711$nl1.5581667@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <mailman.1015530914.14111.python-list@python.org>
        <DcUh8.36711$nl1.5581667@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <15496.4619.570284.157464@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    >> Whether or not you want to be able to check files into the CVS
    >> repository, if you want to contribute, you should probably subscribe
    >> to the python-dev mailing list.  You can subscribe here:
    >> 
    >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

    Darrell> Have you changed to acceptance criteria?

Yes, I believe python-dev has opened up.  Try subscribing again and see what
happens. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Mar 31 22:25:00 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:25:00 -0500
Subject: string copying
References: <AZ3xhtAObNp8EwwK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <MPG.170e8d686c5d8561989683@news.nwlink.com> <3CA4F5CB.E8961330@engcorp.com> <slrnaacgi8.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3CA6ABB6.71786096@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <cuj88a.df5.ln@127.0.0.1>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> phil hunt wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:16:27 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>> >The only one I've been able to think of is the surprisingly
>> >common situation of trying to consume vast quantities of memory
>> >quickly by something like:
>> >
>> >a = [0] * 1000000
>> >for i in xrange(1000000):
>> >    a[i] = 'bigstringsuckinguplotsofmemory'
>> 
>> Simpler is range(1000000)
> 
> Yeah, I know.  I think you and Aahz missed my (admittedly puny)
> point, which was to hypothesize _at least one case_ where it
> was conceivably desirable by someone to try to copy a string.

Perhaps he wanted to use the strings as some sort of serial number and
message in one, i.e., something a not-trying-to-be-clever programmer
would implement as a tuple or class.  For example:

    # checking to see if two messages refer to the same event,
    # in which case print the message only once
    if a is b:
        print a
    else:
        print a
        print b


-- 
CARL BANKS                                http://www.aerojockey.com
"Nullum mihi placet tamquam provocatio magna.  Hoc ex eis non est."


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Mar 25 21:25:04 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:25:04 +1200
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <mailman.1017047439.3331.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9FDC00.A2D4AABB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Christian Tanzer wrote:
> 
> Curious what you'll say about
>     you-really-should-have-been-comparing-it-with-in-the-first-place
> when `__import__` evolves into a type itself <3/4 wink>.

Then I'll say "find a better algorithm". :-)

I don't know what the "right" way to do this is.
Maybe there isn't one -- it all seems rather
hacky to me.

Perhaps there should be an ____import____ (that's
4 underscores on each end :-) variable that holds the
"real" value of __import__, analogous to sys.stdin/
sys.__stdin__ etc.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From shriek at gmx.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 04:02:08 2002
From: shriek at gmx.co.uk (Stephen)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 01:02:08 -0800
Subject: Want to monitor process..
References: <87550ef1.0202272315.15779bbd@posting.google.com> <f2lf8.385$Az6.1854@news.hananet.net> <97ae44ee.0202280901.3153bdfc@posting.google.com> <3C7EC9C6.D11FB17@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <97ae44ee.0203010102.14ebf2bb@posting.google.com>

> > Unfortunately, my own applications seem to crash as opposed to
> > shutdown normally, so it's probably not going to help me. From the
> > library reference ~
> > "Note: the functions registered via this module are not called when
> > the program is killed by a signal, when a Python fatal internal error
> > is detected, or when os._exit() is called. "
> 
> Yikes!  "Crash"?  Do you really mean they crash the Python interpreter,
> or do you mean they exit with an exception?

Sorry, I guess I mean "exit with an exception" though to be honest, I
still don't know because I haven't been able to run the programs
interactively during a 'crash'.  The problem seems to be that
sometimes a thread can take up to 60 seconds to be dealt with (not by
design but because one of the backend systems takes so long to
respond) and in the meantime requests keep coming in ~ during peak
load (5 requests/sec), this can result in a high number of threads
kept open.


> If the former, you've got seriously problems, I agree.
> 
> If the latter, just wrap the highest level code with a try/finally
> or try/except and put code in to ensure the child processes are
> properly terminated.  Simple, clean, safe.

Will do.  I didn't want to put try/except/finally at the highest level
of code yet since we're actually in Beta and I want to know when my
server encounters a problem.  Problem has been that not running it in
interactive mode, I've missed the reasons for the failures.  That's
why I also asked about logging recently.
 

> My Python programs *never* crash (as in kill the interpreter)
> but maybe that's just me... I doubt it.

I doubt it too. More likely my error handling isn't sufficient.

Stephen.


From phlip_cpp at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 01:04:17 2002
From: phlip_cpp at yahoo.com (Phlip)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 06:04:17 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: Why won't it work?
References: <Xns91DEA230DC824AusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <a7rnd1$e9u@dispatch.concentric.net>

A.Newby wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Below is an example exercise from "An Introduction to Tkinter" by Fredrik
> Lundh. It simply creates a box with a quit button in it. Problem is,
> everytime I click Quit, the program freezes.

Does Freddy specify he got these working on Linux?

>         self.button = Button(frame, text="QUIT", fg="red",
> command=frame.quit)

I suspect you can change that to command=frame.destroy and it will go away. 
The problem may have been 'quit' turned off 'mainloop', but the window 
still existed.

-- 
Phlip

http://www.greencheese.org/HatTrick


From john at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 13:12:34 2002
From: john at yahoo.com (John Warney)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:12:34 GMT
Subject: is there gonna be a Core Python Programming 2e ?
References: <codq9uko6ueumep852po13m6pbtfs3r2ts@4ax.com> <a7jkm6$cnt$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pj5s9u4vesbht87kn2pevlo6ojv7v26mc0@4ax.com>

>I know that Wes is gearing up to work on the second edition; I'll pass

cool

>this on to him (he doesn't read c.l.py regularly these days).  However,

ye, i have seen him reply to a few posts but not many

>I'll have to note that this is more up to the publisher than the author.

ye, i have seen all the CORE series with the same binding and i hate
it, same with O'Reilly books.  If its a paperback i like the binding
that is on  Linux Firewalls books.  If its hardback i like the binding
thats on the Sybex books.
This is me personally, since it is easier on the book in the long run
and it keeps the pages cleaner.

Rob


From torppa at polykoira.megabaud.fi  Tue Mar 12 12:25:32 2002
From: torppa at polykoira.megabaud.fi (Jarkko Torppa)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:25:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How do you conver output of "popen('ls')" to a list?
References: <3C737245.BC5D7164@macrozon.net> <slrna8sdnl.e2.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <a6ldmc$38q$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>

In article <slrna8sdnl.e2.gminick at hannibal.localdomain>, Wojtek Walczak wrote:
>** Since micro$oft is stupid it doesn't mean
>** that you should be stupid too - do NOT toppost.
>Dnia Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:54:13 +0100, husam napisa?(a):
>>thanks for reply.
>
>---------
>#!/usr/local/bin/python2.2
>
>import os
>
>blah = os.popen('ls').read()
>i,n,tabl,blen=0,0,[],len(blah)
>
>while i < blen:
>   tmp = i
>   i = blah.index('\n', i)
>   tabl.append(blah[tmp:i])
>   n+=1
>   i+=1
>
>for a in tabl:
>   print a
>---------

What's wrong with:
>> [ x[:-1] for x in os.popen('ls').readlines() ]
or better yet (no fork tax)
>> os.listdir('.')

-- 
Jarkko Torppa, Elisa Internet


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 05:34:17 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:34:17 +0000
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>
 <59667b81.0203221433.261c8210@posting.google.com>
 <da69ff6a.0203222241.405fd8a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1hg8f0ApoFn8EwlT@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <da69ff6a.0203222241.405fd8a0 at posting.google.com>, Peter
Norvig <peter at norvig.com> writes
>I have some simple, inefficient CSP code in Python at
>http://www.norvig.com/python/csp.html
>
>Includes fintie domain backtracking search (with optional forward
>checking, domain ordering, and variable ordering); hill-climbing
>min-conflicts search; examples from map coloring, n-queens, and the
>zebra puzzle.
>
>-Peter
>
>
.....
so I guess I need to know what search and utils are or can CSP discover
that?
-dazed and confused-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From anthony at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 13 20:26:58 2002
From: anthony at ekit-inc.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:26:58 +1100
Subject: Zope 
In-Reply-To: Message from Bernard Yue <bernie@3captus.com> 
   of "Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:20:39 GMT." <3C8FED4D.A8C0470@3captus.com> 
Message-ID: <200203140126.g2E1Qw122298@burswood.off.ekorp.com>

> Are there anybody using Zope 2.4.3 with Python 2.2 in production
> environment?  Problems?

PythonScripts will fail and cause Zope to shutdown with that
combination. Python2.2 is also not the recommended version for 
Zope 2.4 or 2.5.

Use Python2.1.2, and Zope2.4.4b1, or Zope 2.5.x

Anthony


-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never to late to have a happy childhood.




From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sun Mar 17 17:01:27 2002
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:01:27 +0100
Subject: Sharing code between instance and class methods
Message-ID: <3C951237.A28EB624@ndh.net>

Hello,

I would like to be able to set the same variable for an instance or for
its class. Someting like:

class X:
    def set_in_instance(self, value):
        self.data = value

    def set_in_class(cls, value):
        cls.data = value
    set_in_class = classmethod(set_in_class)

However, if the code to set the value involves several calls of other
methods, the code duplication would become awkward:

class X:
    def set_in_instance(self, value):
        self.meth1(value)
        self.meth2(value)
        x = self.meth3(value)
        self.data = self.meth4(x)

    def set_in_class(cls, value):
        cls.meth1(value)
        cls.meth2(value)
        x = cls.meth3(value)
        cls.data = cls.meth4(x)
    set_in_class = classmethod(set_in_class)

One possibility I can imagine is to put the common code into a static
method:

class X:
    def set_static(obj, value):
        obj.meth1(value)
        obj.meth2(value)
        x = obj.meth3(value)
        obj.data = obj.meth4(x)
    set_static = staticmethod(set_static)

    def set_in_instance(self, value):
        self.set_static(self, value)

    def set_in_class(cls, value):
        cls.set_static(cls, value)
    set_in_class = classmethod(set_in_class)

Is there a more direct way to accomplish the same? (In a concrete case,
the class method should only be in a derived class, and I have a dislike
to modify the base class to support the per-class operation in the
derived class.)

Thanks in advance for your help.

Stefan


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Thu Mar 21 06:31:14 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 11:31:14 GMT
Subject: Newbie: word count and Win32
References: <e9cd3ea2.0203190421.904cdfb@posting.google.com> <a786tq$s81$0@216.39.172.122> <kr8f9ukbg3n3i3oghrues7ir93rub2tuo2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a7cga2$26na$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <kr8f9ukbg3n3i3oghrues7ir93rub2tuo2 at 4ax.com>, Joe Christl wrote:
>On 19 Mar 2002 20:26:34 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>>From a quick look that[1] script, it looks like it expects to read
>>from stdin only. I.e., it says

>>    # iterate over each line on stdin
>>    for line in sys.stdin.readlines() :
>>        ...

 ...

>>To make the script work like what you expected, it needs to look
>>at the command line arguments (sys.argv) for a file name and open that,
>>and use the resulting file object in place of stdin.


>He gave a a diff output for it to accept a filename.  I am going to try that
>first and report back,

	for i in sys.argv[1:]:
		try:
			file = open(i,'r')
			for line in file:
				...
		except IOError: pass

 ... that's about the simplest way to iterate over each in in 
 each file.  Within the last couple of days I posted a script
 that implements the GNU "wc" (word count) program in Python
 with full support for the GNU command line options.  That script
 shows an example of how to selectively use stdin (if no non-switch/option
 arguments are present) or to iterate over a list of files.  My 
 script is slightly UNIX-centric --- but it might work on Windows
 or Mac (if os.path.isdir() is sufficiently similar and getopts works).  
 I think os.path.isdir() is the only OS specific function I used.

 Of course the UNIX/GNU wc command only counts the total number of 
 "words" (whitespace separated things), lines, and characters in a 
 file or set of files.  It doesn't provide a count of individual words.

 Tonight I wrote a "wordcount.py" program that counts "words" and
 "knownwords" (if you have a suitable list under /usr/share/dict/words
 --- as most UNIX and GNU/Linux systems will) and then dumps a sorted
 list of all non-unique "words" (sequences of letters, possibly 
 hyphenated or with apostrophes, as in "o'clock").  It keeps counts
 of the words that it processed, the number that it added to it's
 dictionary, and the number that it found in "knownwords" dictionary 
 and prints summaries and ratios of those.

>>BTW, IMO you get a nicer ouput if you change the last line of the script to
>>     print '%6d: %s' % (words[word], word)

>I don't really care too much about the amount of times a word shows up.  I'll
>try it his way and yours.  :)

	I missed what you're actually trying to do.

>>Regards,
>>Bengt Richter

>Thanks,
>Joe Christl


From mlerner at zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu  Wed Mar 13 17:39:58 2002
From: mlerner at zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Michael George Lerner)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:39:58 GMT
Subject: YANRQ (yet another regex question)
Message-ID: <2zQj8.409$zT5.12612@news.itd.umich.edu>

Howdy,

I have a regular expression that looks vaguely like this:

r = re.compile(r'''(?P<start>start)(?P<foo>   foo)(?P<end>end)''')

but the middle pattern isn't quite what I want.  I know that foo 
will be a string that is seven characters long and contains 'foo'
surrounded by spaces.  That is, it could be any of these:

'foo    '
' foo   '
'  foo  '
'   foo '
'    foo'

I'd like to rewrite my regular expression to match any of these,
and I'd really rather not write it all out like this:

(?P<foo>(foo    | foo   |  foo  |   foo |    foo|)

Is there some easy way to do this that I've overlooked?

thanks,

-michael



From fdrake at acm.org  Fri Mar 29 17:48:51 2002
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:48:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20020329224851.02DAD18EAD1@grendel.zope.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

Started to update the Extending & Embedding manual with information on the
new support for types.

There's still a long way to go -- contributions welcome!




From Francois-regis.Chalaoux at sanofi-synthelabo.com  Mon Mar  4 13:23:13 2002
From: Francois-regis.Chalaoux at sanofi-synthelabo.com (Francois-regis Chalaoux)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:23:13 +0100
Subject: question about an installation of a new module
Message-ID: <"020304203918Z.WT13248. 28*/PN=Francois-regis.Chalaoux/O=RESEARCH/PRMD=SANOFI/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR/"@MHS>

Hi All,

After my 'configure', 'mak' and 'make install' of Python , I modified the 'Setup' from Module directory and then I ran 'make' as explained in the README.txt.

However, should I run again 'make install' again after this modification ?

FR



From GetCapsOffDomain  Fri Mar  1 06:08:58 2002
From: GetCapsOffDomain (Javier)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:08:58 +0100
Subject: wiin32clipboard "odd" behaviour??
Message-ID: <a5noq4$5nf$1@diana.bcn.ttd.net>

Hi all!!

I am experiencing a "strange" thing when trying to use the win32clipboard
module that comes with Active State's Active Python distro...

The thing is, I want to "load" a list of strings to the "main" clipboard
(thing loading a list of alternate URLs to clipoard managers like GetRight
:-)

The thing is, I OpenCliboard(), I SetClipboardText(text) and I can
GetClipboardData(format), but I can't "get" the clipboard data from outside
apps (not even after I've CloseClipboard() )... It seems like I've gotten a
"new" clipboard all for myself...

So, what would I have to do to manage things "as usual"??

Ideas, pointers??

    TIA

    Javier


----

To be, or not to be. *BOOM!* Not to be.




From bp at sam.localdomain  Fri Mar  1 13:25:36 2002
From: bp at sam.localdomain (Bob Parnes)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:25:36 -0000
Subject: Mod-python problem
References: <slrna7rdq5.2vf.bp@sam.localdomain> <f72dac0d.0202280734.77bfa545@posting.google.com> <slrna7ttd5.1j3.bp@sam.localdomain> <f72dac0d.0203010334.2fd6be3a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna7vmbj.108.bp@sam.localdomain>

On 1 Mar 2002 03:34:10 -0800, Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>bp at sam.localdomain (Bob Parnes) wrote in message 
>
>> The only trouble is that I had forgotten about my httpd.conf file. The 
>> relevant lines are:
>> 
>> <Directory /var/www/modPython/test>
>>   AddHandler python-program .py
>>   PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
>> </Directory>
>> 
>> This was the reason I used main() instead of handler(); in the url window I 
>> typed in "test.py/main" and got the table but no response from FieldStorage().
>
>> Are publisher and FieldStorage() incompatible, or am I misusing them? Knowing 
>> what I know now, I can probably get along without publisher, but I am 
>> accustomed to placing several scripts in one directory.
>
>Bob,
>
>Sorry, I didn't realise you were using the Publisher handler,
>otherwise I wouldn't have gone and rewritten your code to work with a
>completely different paradigm. And I was wondering how you were
>getting results with something that just didn't look like it could
>work %-) D'oh! Silly me.
>
>Warning: I don't use the publisher handler, so I haven't tested any of
>the stuff below!
>
>Looking at the publisher handler documentation, section 6.1.3:
>Publisher handler: Form data
>
>http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.6/doc-html/node74.html
>
>which says: 
>
>"In the process of matching arguments, the Publisher handler creates
>an instance of FieldStorage class. A reference to this instance is
>stored in an attribute form of the Request object.
>
>Since a FieldStorage can only be instantiated once per request, one
>must not attept to instantiate FieldStorage when using the Publisher
>handler and should use Request.form instead."
>
>So it would appear to me that you shouldn't be trying to instantiate
>the util.FieldStorage() class at all. Instead, you should be referring
>to the already extant req.form attribute. So your main function should
>change from this
>
>def main(req):
>    formDict = util.FieldStorage(req)
>    cl = clTest()
>    return cl.cltest(req, formDict)
>
>to this
>
>def main(req):
>    cl = clTest()
>    return cl.cltest(req, req.form)
>
>As mentioned, I haven't tested any of this!
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>Al.

It works great. Thank you so much. I am ashamed to say that I have 
the documentation, but somehow. I overlooked section 6.1.3

Bob

-- 
Bob Parnes
rparnes at megalink.net


From samschul at pacbell.net  Sun Mar 31 18:43:30 2002
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg)
Date: 31 Mar 2002 15:43:30 -0800
Subject: Accessing  CVS on SourceForge?
Message-ID: <d7fcf8b4.0203311543.1a7cf54e@posting.google.com>

How do you access a particular python realease on SourceForge? I can
obtain the latest realease by following the instruction provided at
SourceForge, but I would like to obtain Python2.2 or 1.52.

Thanks in advance.
Samuel Schulenburg


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Mar  1 08:42:59 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:42:59 -0700
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019221514A@admin56.narex.com>

> From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu] 
> 
> In article <mailman.1014944882.14890.python-list at python.org>,
>  James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> > For example, one problem I had when playing with an experimental 
> > implementation of the "middle argument" variant mentioned above is 
> > that the specific relational operators are tied to the 
> values of the 
> > bounds.  If you want to iterate from the smaller value (up) to the 
> > larger value you write:
> > 
> > for 1 <= var < 5:
> > 
> > whereas if you want to iterate from the larger value (down) to the 
> > smaller value you have to turn things around and write:
> > 
> > for 5 > var >= 1:
> > 
> > which all looks very nice when you are dealing with literal 
> constants.  
> > But suppose you have variables for the bounds, "start" and "end"?  
> > Let's say I have a function
> > 
> > def doSomethingFromTo(start,end):
> > 
> > The function has to test to see which of "start" and "end" is the 
> > smaller value in order to know whether to execute a 
> for-loop with "<" 
> > or a for-loop with ">" (and the code specified in each separate 
> > for-loop has to be written redundantly).  I found this to 
> be awkward.
> 
> What's wrong with
>     for min(start,end) < var < max(start,end)

Nothing at all, but with this syntax you have different semantics for:

   for start <= i < end:

And

   if start <= i < end:

One being an iterative construct, the other being a 'simple' comparison.
I find that at least as confusing as integers producing iterators in
iterative constructs.

Of course, if anyone actually cared about this syntax, we would have a
PEP with a pro/con section, so we wouldn't have to reiterate the same
arguments over and over again <wink>

-- bjorn



From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Mar  7 05:27:20 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:20 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCD8B@intrepid>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203071310380.826-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Simon Brunning wrote:

> > From:	Geoff Gerrietts [SMTP:geoff at gerrietts.net]
> > For the space of around three years, a child is immersed almost
> > constantly, from waking to sleep, and even sometimes while asleep, in
> > language. For those first three years, the child is almost completely
> > incapable of making him or herself understood.

Are you sure? My daughter makes herself understood by all available
means. She built her own dictionary which we, parents, learned.
What is interesting, she uses (internally) a hash table to
convert from our language to her almost instantly...

Our observations tell us that children differ in their ways. E.g. some of
them unthinkingly repeat lots of words and even sentences, while our child
uses only what she understands. Some others do not talk at all and
then at once speak clearly in sentences.

I guess, adults can also be categorized by their approach in learning
languages. And trial-and-error is, IMHO, also needed to learn computer
languages. I can't imaging someone writing right from the start
after studying docs and specs.

I do not remember who told me this, but it seems that students
better learn from poorly constructed lectures than perfect ones.
Because, they need to be _active_ in constructing their own system
rather than _passively_ "eat" readymaid knowledge frames.

So, a bad book (with errors, inconsistencies, etc) is not necessary bad
for learning purposes (if it covers enough of a subject).

> So I don't think that computer languages can be learned in the same way as
> natural languages. Children learn language by a combination of instinct and
> trial-and-error. We don't *have* a computer language instinct - only Guido
> has one of those - and trial-and-error will just mean
> trial-and-syntax-error.

IMHO, children do not only learn language, they also build their
interpreter for themselves as nobody provide them with the
source, only flying in the air binaries ;-)

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -






From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Mar  6 16:05:59 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 21:05:59 GMT
Subject: Web scripting with Python (1st post here, also :-)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8d15n.lct.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6 at posting.google.com>, 
	Julio Nobrega wrote:
>   Well, enough is enough, isn't? Where do I start? It's for a weblog
> (Kuro5hin-like) system.
>   Anyone have a tip for me? Examples? Squisdot is the way to go?

Do you want to *write* a Weblog-like system, or just *use* one?  If you
just want to use one, then Squishdot is the only alternative in Python
that I'm aware of, and it requires Zope.

If you want to write your own, then there are lots of different Web
programming frameworks for Python.  I like Quixote best
(http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/) but then I'm also one
of the developers.  Paul Boddie has a list of frameworks at 
http://www.infector.com/Paul/Python/web_modules.html .

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Thou hast made the Furies cry, Orpheus. They will never forgive you
for that.
    -- Queen Persephone, in SANDMAN: "The Song of Orpheus"



From marknenadov at winningteam.com  Fri Mar 29 17:41:52 2002
From: marknenadov at winningteam.com (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:41:52 -0500
Subject: GUI programming
References: <mailman.1017437568.25402.python-list@python.org> <20020329.173950.1469262009.25190@d57-36-119.wido3.on.cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <20020329.174152.1548348142.25190@d57-36-119.wido3.on.cogeco.ca>

In article
<20020329.173950.1469262009.25190 at d57-36-119.wido3.on.cogeco.ca>, "Mark
Nenadov" <marknenadov at winningteam.com> wrote:


> I would personally recommend wxPython. I believe that wxPython is more
> modern and feature rich. It also doesn't depend on another scripting
> langauge (TCL).

Just to clarify things, I ment to say that wxPython doesn't rely on
another scripting language like TkInter does (TkInter relies on TCL).

Good day,
~Mark Nenadov (www.freelance-developer.com)


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Mar  6 17:00:14 2002
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:00:14 -0000
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:41:31 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:
>     One of the most common uses of for-loops in Python is to iterate
>     over an interval of integers.  Python provides functions range()
>     and xrange() to generate lists and iterators for such intervals,
>     which work best for the most frequent case: half-open intervals
>     increasing from zero.  However, the range() syntax is more awkward
>     for open or closed intervals, and lacks symmetry when reversing
>     the order of iteration.  In addition, the call to an unfamiliar
>     function makes it difficult for newcomers to Python to understand
>     code that uses range() or xrange().
 
>     The perceived lack of a natural, intuitive integer iteration
>     syntax has led to heated debate on python-list, and spawned at
>     least four PEPs before this one.  

    Perceived lack.  IE, this is a solution looking for a problem.  I read it
and really have to ask.... why?  If people have a problem with it they just
need to flip open their Python book and take a few seconds to look it up.
Also the proposal takes a nice line-noise approach to it.  I want line noise,
I'll use Perl or Brainfuck.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
    To email: Don't despair!   |  -- Lenny Nero, Strange Days
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Mar  6 16:37:29 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 22:37:29 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015443011.15149.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qu1rtfkdi.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

James_Althoff at i2.com writes:

> [huaiyu]
> > "spam".append("eggs")
> > x, y, z = "d"
> > x, y, z = 3
> > [f(x) for x in (4 in 3) in (2 in 3) if x in (x+1 in x*2)] # just for fun.
> :-)
> 
> Fun?  Ok, if you say so.
> 
> But just to make sure I understand your point, I guess you are saying the
> above is bad because today's equivalent is more clear?
> 
> [f(x) for x in range((4 in range(3))) in range((2 in range(3))) if x in
> range((x+1 in range(x*2)))]

That's not quite right, I think :)

[f(x)
 for x in range((4 in range(3)) in range((2 in range(3))))
   if x in range((x+1 in range(x*2)))]

would me more like it (but it's late so there may still be a mistake :) )

Anyway, I think that booleans will be iterable too could be problematic.
OTOH, that they're ints could be considered problematic too but hasn't
actually been a problem AFAICT.

> Can you suggest a less contrived example that might be a problem?

x, = 1

would assign 0 to x instead of raising an error.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar 24 12:48:19 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:48:19 +0100
Subject: 2.2 open
References: <HaEARJA7Ven8Ewxd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203241727480.20510-100000@cens.ioc.ee> <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <just-A83F08.18481924032002@news1.xs4all.nl>

In article <1UtsCLAcngn8EwWc at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
 Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> >> So open is now a file? That seems a bit odd to me.
> >
> >Correction: open is the type of file.
> >
> >> It seems that some built ins now have the type of the object they
> >> create. Pretty weird logic.  
> >
> >Correction: some built ins are the type of the object they create.
> >
> >Notice that in 2.2 types and classes are unified.
> >
> yes I heard about that, but the semantics seem strange to me.
> open is not a file it is a function that produces an open file.

It still isn't a file (as Pearu tried to tell you), it's a factory for 
files. In 2.2 types are more like classes, in that calling a type object 
with the right arguments creates an object of that type.

> It's now
> not even amongst the built ins.
> 
> what does X==type(X()) imply?

It's more or less the same as

  X == X().__class__

(Also note that open is now an alias for the new "file" builtin, which 
considering how things now work is the more logical name. The builtin 
functions int, float and str (among others) are olso type objects these 
days.)

Just


From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar  7 15:46:46 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:46:46 -0500
Subject: Bug in the standard module random ?
In-Reply-To: <3C8791B1.6BBC1981@Spam.Please>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEEKOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Weet Vanniks]
> The gammavariate function of the standard module is documented as
> taking two parameters ...

You can follow the drama here:

<http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=527139&group_id=5470&atid=105470>



From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Fri Mar  8 08:48:16 2002
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 13:48:16 GMT
Subject: threads killing other threads
References: <1013105970.135322@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <3C62E0D5.99C586DF@ccvcorp.com> <mailman.1013115694.5377.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6aff0$93e$1@news.mathworks.com>

If outright killing is disallowed, I'd still like to see the ability
for one thread to cause an exception to be thrown in another.
Currently you can do this to the main thread (on UNIX) by using
process signals.

dman <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:

> Here's an analogy :

> If someone is sitting on the toilet, then you come and kill him, how
> is he supposed to flush?

> Processes can be killed by other processes since their resources are
> separate and the kernel can "flush" for the now-dead process.  With
> threads, there is one process and all resources are shared.  No one is
> left around to "flush".


From usenet at thinkspot.net  Wed Mar 13 23:39:54 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:39:54 -0800
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
References: <mailman.1016078842.13805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6odeq.3vs941b.1@kserver.org>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:09 +1100, "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1016078842.13805.python-list at python.org>:

> Bah ...
> 
> results = filter(lambda k: not c.has_key(k), b)
> 
> That will slow it down a bit (using the lambda) but will give the right
> result ;)

How does something with list comprehensions compare? Like:

b = [entry for entry in b if entry not in a]

Is this as slow as the original method suggested? Or is it closer to
dictionary performance?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From python at rcn.com  Mon Mar 11 13:42:58 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:42:58 -0500
Subject: [ANN] PEP 279 version 1.6
Message-ID: <mailman.1015961402.6720.clpa-moderators@python.org>

PEP 279 -- Enhanced Generators has been updated:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0279.html

Comments are invited on the revised PEP.

The changes were driven by comments from GvR,
from the authors of PEP 255, and from members of
the Py-Dev maillist.

The principal changes from the previous version are:

1.  Rationale section focused on generator usage instead
of lazy evaluation.

2.  The proposal for four builtins has been reduced to one.
Xzip, xfilter, and xmap are retracted.  Expanded the discussion
of the remaining proposed builtin, indexed().

3.  All sections expanded to include comments received
from GvR and the PEP 255 authors (the experts on the
existing generator implementation).

4.  Proposal for generator exception passing moved up
one section.

5.  Proposal for generator parameter passing listed as
deferred -- everyone thinks this may be a viable idea
but it doesn't have a chance in the near-term.

6.  The restartability discussion has been deleted -- Guido
thought it was evil.


Raymond Hettinger




Addenda

Here are comments from Magnus Lie Hetland which were
received after the PEP was updated:

> I like indexed() a lot; +1. I'm quite happy to have it make PEP 281
> obsolete. Adding a separate module for iterator utilities seems like a
> good idea.
>
> Generator comprehensions seem mildly useful, but I vote +0. Defining a
> separate, named generator would probably be my preference. On the
> other hand, I do see the advantage of "scaling up" from list
> comprehensions.
>
> Even though I cannot speak for the ease of implementation, I vote +1
> for the exception passing mechanism.
>
> I like the generator parameter passing mechanism. Although I see no
> need to defer it, deferral seems to be the most likely scenario, and
> in the meantime I guess the functionality can be emulated either by
> implementing the generator as a method, or by passing a parameter with
> the exception passing mechanism.
>
> I guess there is no real need to comment on restartability, but I
> can't see that I have any need for it.







From tjl3 at cornell.edu  Fri Mar 29 12:06:55 2002
From: tjl3 at cornell.edu (Tim Lynch)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:06:55 -0500
Subject: problem getting xmlrpclib example to work
Message-ID: <3CA49F2F.DE642F22@cornell.edu>

Could someone get me pointed in the right direction?

I've been banging my head for over a day now trying to get an example
xml-rpc
cgi-based server to work.  Specifically, I'm trying to get the example
from
O'Reilly's "XML-RPC Web Services" book, pg 137, ex. 6-3, to work.  I've
copied the code from www.ora.com for ex 6-3 to my cgi-bin directory,
it's
included at the end of this message.

I've tried the code on several different Linux installations, running
Python 2.1.1
and 2.2 all with the same results.


Here's the test script to exercise the cgi script:
----
#!/usr/bin/python

import xmlrpclib
server = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost/cgi-bin/xmlrpc.py')

print server.Describe('xxx')
----

And here's the traceback I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./tst.py", line 6, in ?
    print server.Describe('xxx')
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/xmlrpclib.py", line 547, in __call__
    return self.__send(self.__name, args)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/xmlrpclib.py", line 630, in __request
    request
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/xmlrpclib.py", line 582, in request
    headers
xmlrpclib.ProtocolError: <ProtocolError for localhost/cgi-bin/xmlrpc.py:
500 Internal Server Error>


Here is the cgi code:

----
#!/usr/bin/python

# xmlrpc_cgi.py

import xmlrpclib
import os, sys, string

#### HTTP message templates

success_msg = """
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Content-type: text/xml
Content-length: %d

%s
"""

failure_msg = """
HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error - x.py

"""

#### functions that implement XML-RPC API

def do_SetColor(shape_type, shape_id, color_tuple):
  return "hello from do_SetColor"

def do_Describe(*one_or_more_args):
  return "hello from do_Describe"

def call(meth_name, arg_tuple):
   """
   XML-RPC method dispatcher
   """
   myAPI = ("SetColor", "Bounce", "Describe")
   if meth_name in myAPI:
      func_obj = eval("do_" + meth_name)
      return apply(func_obj, arg_tuple)
   else:
      raise xmlrpclib.Fault(123, "Unknown method name")

##### main program

if __name__ == "__main__":

   try:
      # get arguments
      data = sys.stdin.read(  )
      fh = open("/tmp/xmlrpc.cgi.log", 'w')
      fh.write(data)
      fh.close()
      params, method = xmlrpclib.loads(data)

      # generate response
      try:
         response = call(method, params)
         if type(response) != type((  )):
            response = (response,)

      except xmlrpclib.Fault, faultobj:
         # generated response was a Fault
         response = xmlrpclib.dumps(faultobj)

      except:
         # report exception back to server
         response = xmlrpclib.dumps(
           xmlrpclib.Fault(1,
           "%s:%s" % (sys.exc_type, sys.exc_value))
         )
      else:
         # no exception occurred:
         # send method's return value back to server
         response = xmlrpclib.dumps(
            response,
            methodresponse=1
            )
   except:
      # internal error, report as HTTP server error
      print failure_msg
   else:
      # no internal error: send back a "success" response
      print success_msg % (len(XML_response), XML_response)
----

What's really annoying is that I've got equivalent Perl code
working on the same machines I've tested this code.

Tim Lynch
Mann Library
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853





From aahz at panix.com  Thu Mar  7 21:24:54 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 18:24:54 -0800
Subject: threads killing other threads
References: <1013105970.135322@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <a40h4g$kl5$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <a40rq0$ajl$1@panix2.panix.com> <a41fsq$bvf$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <a697dm$ges$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <a41fsq$bvf$1 at newsreader.mailgate.org>,
Les Smithson  <lsmithso at NOhare.SPAM.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Aahz" == Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> writes:
>> In article <a40h4g$kl5$1 at newsreader.mailgate.org>,
>> Les Smithson  <lsmithso at NOhare.SPAM.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I'm sure there's a good reason for Python not implementing
>>> this. Anyone know what it is?
>>
>> Yes.  It doesn't work.
>>
>> Oh, sure, there's a long technical explanation of how arbitrarily
>> killing threads leaves processes in various kinds of weird states,
>> but it all boils down to, "It doesn't work."  That goes double for
>> any kind of cross-platform facility.  Note that Java has pretty much
>> abandoned any pretence that it can provide this capability.
>
>But doesn't pthread_testcancel allow cooperative threads to be
>canceled? This is the portable equivalent to the thread signaling
>scheme described earlier. It also gives the canceled thread a chance to
>clean itself up before exiting.
>
>Not ideal, but better than nothing.

After looking this up, I see two basic problems with this:

* Doesn't work with extensions unless the extension writer cooperates.

* Don't see any direct equivalent in Win32.  Solaris native threads
don't support this; I don't know off-hand whether Python uses pthreads
on Solaris.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From shareselect at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 16 12:20:57 2002
From: shareselect at hotmail.com (Al)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 09:20:57 -0800
Subject: Help Setting PATH w/Python and Win98
Message-ID: <b8245cf2.0203160920.2fe59c7b@posting.google.com>

Hi 

I am new to programming and am currently doing a Python Tutorial at
 http://softwaredev.earthweb.com/sdopen/article/0,,12382_626311,00.html

On that page it says I must set the path in Windows to the directory
where the Python.exe is located so that I can execute Python script. 
I can get around DOS a bit to do this but not sure how to do it
exactly.  Could someone tell me what I must do?

Also it says I must make the directory containing my first script file
my CURRENT DIRECTORY from the COMMAND PROMPT IN DOS. How do I do this
too?

Thanks

Al


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sat Mar 23 10:05:18 2002
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 15:05:18 GMT
Subject: circular imports (don't yell!)
References: <a7gm3d$93n$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91DA66A381168gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.214>

jimh wrote:

> We have a scenario where we have (and need) circular imports, that is,
> A imports B imports C imports A.  Now I know there are ways around
> this, but we have external dependencies that make it very difficult to
> use an alternative, so don't be yelling at me about the design ;)
> 
> I have whittled the problem down to 3 files:
> 
> a.py
> ------
> from b import *
> from c import *
> consta = 3
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    print consta
>    print constb
>    print constc
> 
> b.py
> ------
> print "in b"
> from c import *
> constb = 4
> constb2 = constc + 10
> 
> c.py
> ------
> print "in c"
> from a import *
> constc = 5
> 
> As these are given here, it works.  

Note that a.py is running as __main__. The
import in c.py gets a different copy (check
out sys.modules at the end to prove it). So
you don't have a circular import.

 __main__ imports b
 b imports c
 c imports a
 a imports b (already loaded)
 a imports c (already loaded)
 __main__ imports c (already loaded)

> But if I switch the order of the
> two imports in a.py, it doesn't work:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "a.py", line 2, in ?
>     from c import *
>   File "c.py", line 2, in ?
>     from a import *
>   File "a.py", line 3, in ?
>     from b import *
>   File "b.py", line 5, in ?
>     constb2 = constc + 10
> NameError: name 'constc' is not defined
> 
> I think this is what is happening:
>   - a imports c so c is marked as "loaded"

Not exactly. In effect, c is marked as "loading".

>   - c imports a
>   - a imports b
>   - b imports c, but c is already marked as "loaded", however, it
>   hasn't 
> REALLY been loaded, thus constc is not yet defined.

About right (the import of c in b doesn't do anything,
because c is "loading"). But you haven't accounted for
the difference between __main__ and a.

 __main__ imports c
 c imports a
 a imports c (loading)
 a imports b
 b imports c (loading)
and you die here because b wants c.constc.

So changing b to
 
 print "in b"
 import c 
 constb = 4
 constb2 = c.constc + 10

gets you closer, but still doesn't work. That's 
because c hasn't finished loading at the time
c.constc is evaluated. But that's probably an
artifact of your test. In real life, references
to c.contc are likely to be inside functions or
methods, and the revised code would work.

The lesson being that with circular imports, 
not everyone can use "from ... import ...".
Somebody has to do a plain "import ...".

(And don't forget __main__).

-- Gordon
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/




From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Mar  7 05:31:37 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:31:37 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <3C8623B9.3000504@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203071327560.826-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Ramkumar Kashyap wrote:

> non-intuitive manner and lose out on a big chunk of their audience.
>  Only a few of us that persevere, end up learning the language and even
> fewer go on to achieve "GURU" status. Why is this?
>
> I have seen several posts on CLP and the newbie tutors list, where
> people mention that their first encounter with programming was in BASIC,
> COBOL, Pascal, Fortran.  They did not really make any progress, gave up
> on programming.  Now they are attempting once again, hoping things have
> become a little easier.

I think, the initial language has nothing to do with later gaving up
programming. These same thoughts bother me for several years already and I
came to the decision that almost nothing does matter: only motivation to
continue learning programming. Then certain barrier falls and a person is
from that point capable of programming (in any language, as it is
universal skill). It's like mastering bicycle or learning to swim.

> I would like to know how the pattern was set to teach programming
> languages.  You do an introductory program like "Hello World", learn how
> to compile and run it. Then jump into decision structures, loops,
> functions, etc.
>
> This is extremely non-intuitive to most people.  Most 5,6,7 year olds
> can speak fluently in their native languages, but how many of them could
> tell you about vowels, consonants, nouns, verbs, adjectives.  In fact
> quite a few of them speak multiple languages, can easily differentiate
> sentence structures in those languages, but would be hard-pressed to
> give defintions of the above.
>
> So how come in programming, we ALWAYS jump into the constructs of a
> language, rather than just doing, gaining proficiency and then
> understanding how it is put together?
>
> I think that unless the approach to teaching Programming languages, is
> changed and follows the more universal style of teaching spoke language
> or verbal communication, Computer Programming for Everybody will remain
> a dream.
>
> Just my .02 cents

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -





From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar 15 13:15:06 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:15:06 -0600
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
In-Reply-To: <10095d00.0203150319.12f9cbf9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLEELFDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Noel Smith wrote:
> >>> print ord('?')
> 156
> >>> print ord('?')
> 157
>
> Which is clearly wrong although strangely enough when I type the same
> thing into IDLE on Windows NT, it produces the correct results.

Of course, you can use a Latin-1 chart
  http://czyborra.com/charsets/iso8859.html#ISO-8859-1
but that doesn't really answer your question.

When you type the pound sign on your keyboard, the console
interprets it as some byte.  If the console were Latin-1
friendly, it would generate the byte A3, which is the Latin-1
code for the pound sign.

Alas, the PC console uses a different character set called CP437,
which is not Latin-1 compatible.  In CP437, the pound sign
is 156 and the yen sign is 157.

So when you type a pound sign, your computer is putting the
byte 9C (=156) into memory somewhere, and that is what Python
receives when you hit Enter.

Anyway, to cut a long story short:

  (1) Whenever you're using non-ascii characters, you want to use
      Unicode strings.  A bare string like '?' may cause a warning
      in a future version of Python, in part because of this mess.

  (2) Alas, Python doesn't currently interpret Unicode literal
      strings all that intelligently, in the Windows console
      world anyway:

        [in Win2K console]
        >>> ord(u'?')
        156    # uhhh, no
        >>> ord(u'\N{POUND SIGN}')
        163    # correct answer

      I think it's fair to say this is a deficiency in current
      versions of Python.  I believe it will be fixed, so eventually
      ord(u'?') will consistently return 163.  But for now, a
      Latin-1 chart is your best bet.

      (Note that the above are technically Unicode codepoints, not
      Latin-1 character codes.  But Latin-1 is the first page of
      Unicode, so it works.)

  (3) Tk is Unicode-friendly, so when you type or paste a ?
      character into it, the correct Unicode character is stored.

Hope this helps allay the confusion, at least.  :-/

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar  3 15:55:16 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 03 Mar 2002 21:55:16 +0100
Subject: Problems with print str,
References: <slrna8517i.2cm.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>
Message-ID: <m3adtpwevf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stefan Heimann <stefan.heimann at web.de> writes:

> Any help would be great!

I suggest to use raw_input for this specific application.

Regards,
Martin


From mcherm at destiny.com  Fri Mar 22 13:22:11 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:22:11 -0500
Subject: Popular style document?
Message-ID: <3C9B7653.2080204@destiny.com>

> If you mean requirement to say def meth(something, arg) instead of def
>> meth(arg), compiler does not necesarily know when compiling whether
>> function will be used as method or not.  (Methods can be defined
>> outside of class statement and assigned as method later.)
> 
> Yes, this is what I meant. How does this work though, when assigning a
> method to a class? I mean, let's say that you have a method taking two
> arguments, concatenate (x, y). When assigning this method to a class,
> will that mean that the first argument is always replaced by the class
> instance, so I'd have to call it like this: aclass.concatenate (y), and
> the first argument, x, will always correspond to aclass?

Yes.



Python 2.2c1 (#27, Dec 14 2001, 13:15:16) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
 >>> class MyClass:    # CREATE A CLASS
	pass

 >>> def concatenate(x, y):     # CREATE A FUNCTION
	print 'concatenating %s and %s' % (x,y)
	return [x, y]

 >>> MyClass.concatenate = concatenate   # MAKE THE FUNC A METHOD!
 >>> myInstance = MyClass()          # NEED AN INSTANCE
 >>> myInstance.concatenate(7)      # CALL METHOD ON THE INSTANCE
concatenating <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x009557A8> and 7
[<__main__.MyClass instance at 0x009557A8>, 7]




From tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se  Tue Mar 26 14:13:51 2002
From: tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se (FREDRIK HULDTGREN)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:51 +0100
Subject: stop
Message-ID: <sca0d68a.041@Riksvasa.syd.kth.se>

Ok, so I'm going to be quite honest, I dont write perfect code, so today
while working in PythonWin I imported a file. Problem was that the file
happened to contain an infinte loop, which the interpreter gladly ran,
untill I killed the entrire program. Annoying. Is there no %&/!#ing stop
button in PythonWin?

/Fredrik



From vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Mar 18 05:32:43 2002
From: vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de (Viatcheslav Kulikov RWTH Aachen)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:32:43 +0100
Subject: Python + Omni CORBA libraries link
References: <3C95AF61.5D25C8CD@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> <a74e1m$hhp$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <3C95C24A.D2B5D92F@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>

Duncan Grisby wrote:

> In article <3C95AF61.5D25C8CD at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>,
>  Viatcheslav Kulikov RWTH Aachen  <vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>
> >ImportError: DLL load failed: Das angegebene Modul wurde nicht gefunden.
>
> Can you translate that error please?

"The requested module was not found" (sorry, an OS is German)

>
> >I am using Python 2.1. and OmniORB compiler 1.0. The _omnipy module is
> >available there with a .pyd extension (a compiled library). This message
> >is received when the library is present at the PythonPath; when it is
> >not, the interpreter simply finds no module name _omnipy.
> >Please advise what can be done. I am new to the Python programming, so
> >please give as much detail as possible.
>
> You should be using omniORBpy version 1.4. Are you using the version
> compiled for Python 2.1?  If not, that would explain the problem.
>

Thank you, seems you have covered the problem.

Well, as I am quite new to the Python, I can't give the exact version of the
package, but the compiler shows version 1.0.
Also, all files of the package are dated 21-06-2001 as the latest.

The module CORBA.py from the package shows the following ID:

# $Id: CORBA.py,v 1.27.2.3 2001/05/17 14:05:01 dpg1 Exp $

Hopefully I provided sufficient information, if not, please give me a hint
how to get more.

Is this version compiled only for Python 2.0? If so, please give a link to
the place where I can download the version 1.4 or higher which would
eliminate the error.

I would be very grateful.

Best regards,
  Viatcheslav Kulikov



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sun Mar 10 23:03:06 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:03:06 GMT
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
References: <mailman.1015813998.9833.python-list@python.org> <3C8C2A95.C3C754AC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3jbo8u0jjbgel0h1vqgpbcnlfe96vmvu9j@4ax.com>

>> exceptions, too.  This is the major cost of exception-handling
>> in Python:  checking every return value.  (Good C++ compilers
>> cleverly avoid this cost; Python doesn't, alas.)  

But it's really irrelevant in any case. The cost doesn't contribute
in any significant measurable way to the execution time of a Python
program, I'd say.

C//



From alf at logilab.fr  Wed Mar 27 07:42:14 2002
From: alf at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:42:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: overwrite bytes in file
References: <3ca1c344.16256546@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <slrnaa3fh6.g37.alf@sagittarius.logilab.fr>

In article <3ca1c344.16256546 at news.easynews.net>, Marcus Stojek wrote:
> Hi,
> how can I overwrite certain bytes in a file (Win NT) and
> keep the rest unchanged.
> All open options are truncating the file.

Opening the file in 'r+' mode should do the trick.

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From phlip_cpp at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 20:03:49 2002
From: phlip_cpp at yahoo.com (Phlip)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 01:03:49 GMT
Subject: Why does this work?
References: <mailman.1017271784.23211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7tq5l$atu@dispatch.concentric.net>

Delaney, Timothy wrote:

>> And we like to find ways to cure the "magic member bug". If
>> you can think of
>> any others, please share.
> 
> __slots__

Thanks!

And 'import from __future__ nested_scopes' would provide similar checks.

-- 
Phlip

http://www.greencheese.org/HatTrick


From WDraxinger at darkstargames.de  Sun Mar  3 17:35:35 2002
From: WDraxinger at darkstargames.de (WDraxinger at darkstargames.de)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:35:35 +0100
Subject: Python Embedding, stdin/-out redirection
Message-ID: <a5u8fr$ng$1@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com>

Hi there,
I'm just trying to embedd python in my 3D Engine
which works fine, except the problems with my console:
I'd like to do the
PyRun_InteractiveLoop(stdin, "<stdin>");
for my Engines console, because the python interactive
mode is just perfect. To make it as simple as possible
I redirected stdin/-out to 2 pipes which I read out
and print to my 3D window's console. Within my programm
all I/O stream releated stuff just works fine.
Mysteriously that doesn't work with python.
Below you see an example of what I tried:

#include <python.h>
#include <io.h>
#include <fcntl.h>

enum {PIPE_READ, PIPE_WRITE};
int stdin_pipe[2];
int stdout_pipe[2];
int stderr_pipe[2];

void python_thread()
{
 // Sync with console
 Py_Initialize();
 PyRun_InteractiveLoop(stdin, "<console>");
 Py_Finalize();
}

void console_thread()
{  
 // Sync with python
 // Show me the stuff written to stdout
 while(!eof(stdout_pipe[PIPE_READ]))
 {
  int r=read(stdout_pipe[PIPE_READ], buffer, 80);
  buffer[r]=0;
  cprintf(buffer);
 }

 // The same with stderr
 while(!eof(stderr_pipe[PIPE_READ]))
 {
  int r=read(stderr_pipe[PIPE_READ], buffer, 80);
  buffer[r]=0;
  cprintf(buffer);
 }
}

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
 char buffer[80];

 _pipe(stdin_pipe, 512, 0);
 _pipe(stdout_pipe, 512, 0);
 _pipe(stderr_pipe, 512, 0);

 _dup2(stdin_pipe[PIPE_READ], 0);
 _dup2(stdout_pipe[PIPE_WRITE], 1);
 _dup2(stderr_pipe[PIPE_WRITE], 2);

 start_console_thread();
 start_python_thread();

 return 0;
}

The output of my programm code is written in the pipe,
but python output still goes to the system console.

I also tried
PyRun_SimpleString("os.dup2(<my_pipe_file_descriptor>, sys.stdout.fileno())\n");

but it doesn't work and python complies about an invalid file descriptor.
I thought it would share the files since it runs in the same process, doesn't they?
Has anybody an idea how to solve this problem.
-- 
+------------------------------------------------+
| +----------------+ WOLFGA
NG DRAXINGER          |
| | ,-.   DARKSTAR | lead programmer             |
| |(   ) +---------+ wdraxinger at darkstargames.de |
| | `-' / GAMES /                                |
| +----+''''''''     http://www.darkstargames.de |
+------------------------------------------------+




From etrofsouls at aol.com  Sat Mar  2 00:35:14 2002
From: etrofsouls at aol.com (EtrOFsouls)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 05:35:14 GMT
Subject: newbie password question
Message-ID: <20020302003514.13693.00001116@mb-fw.aol.com>

Im a newbie to programming, and am having trouble with a certain task. I'd like
to know how to keep track of how often a person guesses at a password and
limits it to x many guesses. Here's a sample of what I've got so far.

password = "foobar"

while password != "unicorn":
      password = raw_input ("Password:")
print "Welcome In"

I understand all this (thank god), but I'm having trouble figuring out how to
get it to keep track of the number of guesses and then print a message such as
"Halt, you do not have access!" if the number of guesses exceeds the limit. I'm
learning this thru on-line tutorials and this was given as an excersise. All I
have to work with is variables and statements such as...while, if, elif and
else. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Mar  8 08:48:28 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:48:28 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <15496.46742.14715.837893@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081642110.8297-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>    Roman> Just one comment about
>
>    Roman>   PEP 270 - uniq method for list objects
>
>    Roman> maybe adding dict <-> list conversion functions will make this
>    Roman> automatically?
>
>Nothing new is necessary since 2.2 was released:
>
>    >>> mylist = [1,2,3,5,6,6,9,9,1,2,3,4]
>    >>> mydict = dict(zip(mylist,mylist))
>    >>> mydict
>    {1: 1, 2: 2, 3: 3, 4: 4, 5: 5, 6: 6, 9: 9}
>    >>> mydict.values()
>    [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9]

Wow. Then I am a bit underinformed. What uniq is for then?
To cover lengthy:

def uniq(x):
  return dict(map(None, x, [None])).keys()

?

:-)

OK, uniq is convenient, I agree. But then other set operations
should follow.

d.update(d1)   # d = d + d1
???            # d = d * d1
???            # d = d - d1

(i know it's easy to make class for them, but
so is for uniq)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, March 08, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "People are always available for work in the past tense." _/




From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Mar 21 15:09:16 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 21:09:16 +0100
Subject: Telnet
References: <yAqm8.1723$Tk.98335@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns91D8D7543A398cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Billy Ng" <evebill8 at hotmail.com> wrote in news:yAqm8.1723$Tk.98335
@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
> I am trying to write a telnet client program.  Here is the code:
> 
> ID = "123445"
> PASSWORD = "333"
> 
> try:
>    tn = telnetlib.Telnet(<host>)
>    tn.read_until("Please enter your id? ")
>    tn.write(ID+"\n")
>    tn.read_until("Enter your password? ")
>    tn.write(PASSWORD+"\n")
>    print tn.read_all()
>    tn.close()
> except:
>    tn.close()
>    print 'connection failed'
> tn.close()
> 
> It stops after the ID was written.  If I use the actual telnet 
> client, it returns "Enter your password? " after my ID is 
> submitted.  why does not tn.read_until() find  the "Enter your 
> password? " string ?  Is there any other way to handle the password 
> prompt?

don't write the entire prompt in read_all. insteand use
read_all("word?")
this way you circumwent problems with additional spaces, case atc.

and make sure that your server works with just a "\n", maybe it needs 
a "\r\n".

HTH chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 20 02:14:00 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:14:00 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C97FB8A.5B9E9247@engcorp.com> <3C98108D.5010002@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3C9836B8.150B4DA@engcorp.com>

Ahmed Moustafa wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > 1. As others have said, there is no such thing as an unbiased
> > comparison of almost anything, let alone programming languages,
> > let alone two with such, uh, "dedicated" users as Java and Python.
> > Nevertheless, even if we could find such a thing, the response
> > would really depend entirely on the application area.
> 
> How about web development? Also, how is Python doing in the embedded
> applications?

Python is excellent for web development.  I can't say exactly
how it compares with Java, but this is a very active area
for Python (see Zope, for example).  You may also have heard of 
Jython, which compiles Python source to Java .class files which 
can then run on any Java VM.  Since Python source is often more 
readable and compact than languages derived from C, the result 
can be "the best of both worlds."

If by "embedded" you mean truly embedded systems, with 
microcontrollers in dedicated-purpose systems and generally 
limited user interfaces, Python is somewhat less suitable
than Java, since there are the KVM and similar Java variants
focussed specifically in this area.  Python is in use in
some PC104-based embedded systems (that's what we use it 
for in the embedded area) and has also been ported (in
early forms) to the Palm Pilot, for example.  The language
itself is perhaps slightly less effective for embedded
systems in some respects, because it is higher level than
Java.  If your constraint is performance and code size,
Java might be better (but then, C might be much much
better...) whereas if development time and cost is the
constraint, Python may well be the winner.  (This is 
why we use it.. much faster development, easier testing,
etc.)  On the other hand, two years ago I made the choice
between Java and Python for the embedded arena, and 
Java was no hell at the time, so I chose Python.  I'm
still quite satisfied with the decision.

> > The point is, I would never hire you or anyone _because_
> > you knew Python, or Java.  I would hire you because
> > I thought you were capable of learning it and using it
> > effectively.  I actually tend to shy away from people
> > with great lists of "certifications" in languages because
> > it suggests to me they have difficulty learning and
> > think it's a very impressive thing that they managed
> > to learn enough to write an exam which tests knowledge
> > of syntax but little about programming skill.
> 
> I agree a certificate does not mean a great programmer, and I think the
> employers know that, but it still tells that one is serious about the
> profession. I have been programming with Java for +4 years now. I got
> certified 2 months ago. I feel my resume is stronger now.

That may be, depending on the one doing the hiring.  I consider
*any* competent programmer fully capable of learning a language
such as Java or Python within at the absolute most a few 
months and, if necessary, taking these certifications.  
The fact one has taken it holds no special merit in my mind,
since it is a "least common denominator" type of thing.  I 
can judge a developer's competence much better during an
interview with discussion than I can by seeing a
certification on her resume.  It is _not_ the knowledge of
language syntax and idioms that matters, but many less
technical traits, where I'm concerned.

As for showing your seriousness, I suppose it might do that.
For me, the breadth and depth of your experience on projects
does that.  After four years, I would expect to see several
major projects and experience in a variety of areas such
as networking, database, GUI, and multithreaded work.  The
certification pales in comparison to those items on any 
resume I've seen.  But that's certain a matter of opinion.
Some people think a P.Eng. (professional engineering, or
PE in the States) designation means a lot.  Others remember
some of the people they went to school with and realize 
some P.Eng's are quite competent, while others may be less 
so.  It's no guarantee. 

-Peter Hansen, P.Eng.  :-)


From jgardn at alumni.washington.edu  Wed Mar  6 09:09:51 2002
From: jgardn at alumni.washington.edu (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:09:51 +0900
Subject: Getting stdout and stderr from popen
References: <slrna8bou9.1sd.stefan.heimann@kunz.ratzer>
Message-ID: <Afph8.55$_Z4.84@news.hananet.net>

Stefan Heimann scribbled with his keyboard:
> I want to launch an external process and have stdout and stderr
> redirected to one output stream,

You are on Unix, right?

> something like
> 
> f = os.popen('cvs status 2>&1')
> 
> does the right thing, but does not work on all platforms.
> 
> If I write
> 
> pin, pout, perr = os.popen3('cvs status')
> 
> I get the output of stderr and stdout but not in the right order.

What do you mean in the right order? Do you mean that it is returning in, 
err, out or that err and out are spitting out stuff simultaneously?

> 
> I tried also
> 
> sys.stderr = sys.stdout
> f = os.popen('cvs status')
> f.read()
> 
> but still I get only the output from stdout (what cvs outputs on
> stderr is written directly to the console).
> 

Okay, let's talk about what is really happening deep underneath the hood.

These popen functions are a shorthand for a very common thing in the world 
of Unix. It goes something like this:

1) make three pipes (in, out, err)
2) fork.

3) If you are the child (pid == 0) then close the writing part of in, and 
the reading part of out and err.
4) Now, make in be my stdin, out my stdout, err my stderr. (this has to be 
done at a lower level - you need to use the dup type functions.)
5) Now, execute the program I wanted to execute ("cvs status") and exit 
when it is finished. "cvs status" should be reading from and writing to the 
pipes.

3) If you are the parent (pid != 0, pid is the child's pid) then close the 
reading part of in, the writing part of out and err. If you want to send 
something to the child's stdin, write to in. If you want to see what he is 
saying, read from out. If you want to hear what he is crying about, read 
from err. (Yes, I meant to write (3).)
4) go on with your parental role and discipline your child if he misbehaves.

That is what is happening under the hood. There are four things the parent 
gets when he makes a child like this - in, out, err, and the pid.

os.popen plays a funny trick. He only gives us back one file that we can 
either read from or write to. You have to choose one. If you choose the 
write to file, then you are going to be writing to the child's stdin. If 
you choose the read from one, then you will be reading from his stdout. You 
can't  read from stderr from this one. It will use stderr from the parent. 
(Note: this may be different from sys.stderr.)

os.popen2, 3, and 4 do something similar, but they will give you back 
multiple pipes. Read the documentation closely.

My favorite, for when I am a control freak, is the Popen2, 3, or 4 class in 
popen2 module. Take a look at that for how that works.

More questions about pipes and child processes? Take it to a Unix 
programmer. Windows does a horrible job with it, and Windows programmers 
tend to only know about it, but are not able to do much with it.

Jonathan







From paul at boddie.net  Wed Mar 13 11:29:02 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 08:29:02 -0800
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
References: <MPG.16f883a7c9be637a989695@news.mminternet.com> <a6mpda$79e$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <23891c90.0203130331.6f030f5b@posting.google.com> <3C8F3B94.1020409@mxm.dk> <m38z8wispl.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203130829.119872b2@posting.google.com>

Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> wrote in message news:<m38z8wispl.fsf at ferret.object-craft.com.au>...
> >>>>> "Max" == Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:
> 
> Max> So perhaps you could get it added to the urllib instead?
> 
> That would be the best result - we could all use it then.

What embarrassment! I have some code which only covers some of the
cases, and then only in a form relevant to the application in
question. However, it's possible to sketch out what might be needed,
so I've uploaded a module which implements a "first draft" of a split
function. The join function is an exercise for the interested
reader...

  http://www.boddie.org.uk/downloads/urlutils.py

Paul


From ak at silmarill.org  Fri Mar 29 10:53:38 2002
From: ak at silmarill.org (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:53:38 GMT
Subject: Anyone need a program written?
References: <3ca43ef4.3666136@news.tudelft.nl> <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaa93j2.kqo.ak@ak.silmarill.org>

In article <7o_o8.17314$Ou.7311 at atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>, Steve Holden wrote:
> "Fused" <I.j.w.Wever at student.tnw.tudelft.nonsense.nonsense.nl> wrote in
> message news:3ca43ef4.3666136 at news.tudelft.nl...
>> I'm currently trying to master Python, but to succeed I need to
>> exercise. However, I detest building programs that have already been
>> built a kazillion times and aren't of use to anyone.
>> Can anyone think of a program that I could build that would actually
>> have use to someone (you?)? I'm trained in Delphi, know some Java and
>> rudimentary C, so the programs don't need to be newbie-easy ( I like a
>> challenge: the greater the challenge, the faster I'll learn ;-) ).
> 
> I'd really like to see a Python mail/newsreader. That would teach you a lot,
> and keep you busy for a while...
>
I'd like to second that. I use slrn and mutt and they're pretty good but
I'd hack on a few things, polish rough edges, etc if they were written
in python. A program that tries to do both probably won't be very good
at either, if I were you I'd either make a news or - an email reader.

 - Andrei

> 
> regards
>  Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sun Mar 10 13:25:42 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:25:42 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <lJri8.11049$hO6.1077415@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3C8AD9B6.5CEE7588@engcorp.com> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vf9n8u0gu1bfihljtoat2jofgl1dhktt25@4ax.com>

>But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
>than C/Python?

While it's not impossible, it's quite laborious (!) o write object
oriented code with C. While I am a big skeptic of buzzword compliance
for its own sake (OOP, bleach!), the path of least resistance in C is
to not write code which is as neatly encapsulated as one generally
gets when one writes simple C++ code. This matters.

Even if one doesn't use all of C++'s fancy features, inheritance,
virtual functions, and good basic data encapsulation are real life
savers that make it hard to want to regress to pure C code.

I have written object oriented code in C, using the Xt/Intrinsics
approach. It's a pain. It also greatly increase the syntax to
functionality ratio quite significantly. That's a very bad thing.

C//



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 24 12:02:24 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:02:24 -0500
Subject: Memory sizes of python objects?
References: <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list@python.org> <kuadsx2958.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <3C9E06A0.EC4D51E3@engcorp.com>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.1016923416.31517.python-list at python.org>, "Clark C
> . Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> writes:
> 
> | Is there some rule of thumb that I can use to estimate,
> | for example, take the character data you have and multiply by
> | a factor of 4 to find the in-memory footprint of tuples, and
> | each map is 1K plus 64 bytes per entry..
> 
> make a zillion of them, check memory usage increase with ps (or
> equivalent on your platform), and divide by zillion.

Keeping in mind Python's propensity for finding already-existing
entities and binding to them instead of creating new objects.

The difference in memory consumption between creating a list 
of size 1,000,000 filled with 0's and the same size list filled 
with integers from 0 to 999,999 is rather large...

-Peter


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 18:58:47 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:58:47 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OF60216520.C712431D-ON88256B72.00835E4C@i2.com>

[James_Althoff]
>
> if I want to iterate up (smaller up to larger) I need to
> write the for-loop as
>     for smaller <= i <= larger:  # can *only* iterate up
> but if I want to iterate down (larger down to smaller) I need to write
the
> for-loop with the reverse relational operators
>     for larger >= i >= smaller:  # can *only* iterate down

[Greg Ewing]
> Sorry, I missed that you wanted the order of iteration
> to be variable. You're right, but I don't see that as
> a major disadvantage. The vast majority of all for-loops
> over integers that I write have a fixed iteration order.
> In the rare cases that I wanted otherwise, I'd be
> quite happy to write the loop another way.

I guess it depends on the type of loops in the given application.  I hit it
right away when I was playing around with my experimental implementation of
the "for i in 0 <= ints <= x:" variant.

I just thought this should be noted as a limitation of any approach that
uses relational operators.

Jim




From Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com  Fri Mar 15 14:08:58 2002
From: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com (Lindstrom Greg - glinds)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:08:58 -0600
Subject: Pretty Integers
Message-ID: <ABEE81BE08ADD311B6A1009027DE908D0BD8817D@conmsx03.conway.acxiom.com>

I would like to add commas to the integers I am writing (for example:
12345678 --> 12,345,678).  I have a fairly ugly method that relies heavily
upon mods, but am convinced there must be a "pretty" way to do it.  How
would you go about this task?

Thanks, everyone!

Greg Lindstrom
Acxiom Corporation,                    mail: CWY10011149
InfoBase Products Development                  office: (501) 342-1626
301 Industrial Blvd, Conway, AR, 72032     fax:     (501) 336-3911 
email: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com           
"The great thing about standards is there are so many to choose from"
Michael Hudson



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named above, and may be legally privileged.
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If you have received this communication in error,
please re-send this communication to the sender and
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From ggerrietts at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 17:11:57 2002
From: ggerrietts at yahoo.com (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:11:57 -0800
Subject: Stedents Question
In-Reply-To: <3C83EA76.BEA9C041@ccvcorp.com>
References: <3c80126f_1@news.iprimus.com.au> <mailman.1015027983.17189.python-list@python.org> <3C83EA76.BEA9C041@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020304221157.GF1792@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Michael Janssen (Janssen at rz.uni-frankfurt.de):
> Tony K wrote:
> > 
> > Write a Python function findABBC which takes a single string as
> > parameter and returns all substrings thereof which match the
> > regexp pattern ab+c. You are NOT allowed to use the re module.

I love these little challenges :)

This one's not much shorter than Michael's but I think it'll run
faster.

import string
def abbc(instr):
    subs = []
    str = instr
    while str:
        start = string.find(str,"ab")
        if start == -1: break
        for i in range(start+2,len(str)):
            if str[i] == "b": continue
            if str[i] == "c":
                end = i+1
                break
            start = end = i
            break
        sub = str[start:end]
        if sub: subs.append(sub)
        str = str[end:]
    print subs


If your python supports string methods, cut that back to:

def abbc(instr):
    subs = []
    str = instr
    while str:
        start = str.find("ab")
        if start == -1: break
        for i in range(start+2,len(str)):
            if str[i] == "b": continue
            if str[i] == "c":
                end = i+1
                break
            start = end = i
            break
        sub = str[start:end]
        if sub: subs.append(sub)
        str = str[end:]
    print subs


And now as I prepare to send this to the list (after mistakenly
sending it to the poster I replied to last time, oops), I'm betting it
would be even quicker to use find twice:

def abbc(instr):
    subs = []
    str = instr
    while str:
        start = str.find("ab")
        finish = str.find("c",start)
        if (start == -1) or (finish == -1): break
        if (str[start:finish] == "a" + ("b"*(finish-start-1))):
            finish = finish + 1
            subs.append(str[start:finish])
        else:
            finish = start + 1
        str  = str[finish:]
    print subs

Maybe I'll try testing this hypothesis later....

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <ggerrietts at yahoo.com>
-rw-rw-rw-:  permissions of the beast



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 17:27:48 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 14:27:48 -0800
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016201064.16243.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203151427.7803754b@posting.google.com>

I'm reposting this because the first one didn't go through for some
reason...

Skip Montanaro:
> How did you "psycoize pystone"?  I found the best results when
> psyco.bind()ing Proc0, Proc1 and Proc8.  I think it's important when
> documenting psyco speedups to indicate what steps you took since there are
> so many possibilities.

Basically, I took the pystone included in Armin's psyco cvs
distribution and simplified the main() function to get rid of the
comparitive stuff.

I think the key binding in this case is in pystones_psycho():
    f = psyco.proxy(Proc0) # with Proc0 calling other Procs...


regards,

Sandy

----------------------snip------------------------------------------

#! /usr/bin/env python

"""
"PYSTONE" Benchmark Program

Version:        Python/1.1 (corresponds to C/1.1 plus 2 Pystone fixes)

Author:         Reinhold P. Weicker,  CACM Vol 27, No 10, 10/84 pg.
1013.

                Translated from ADA to C by Rick Richardson.
                Every method to preserve ADA-likeness has been used,
                at the expense of C-ness.

                Translated from C to Python by Guido van Rossum.

Version History:

                Version 1.1 corrects two bugs in version 1.0:

                First, it leaked memory: in Proc1(), NextRecord ends
                up having a pointer to itself.  I have corrected this
                by zapping NextRecord.PtrComp at the end of Proc1().

                Second, Proc3() used the operator != to compare a
                record to None.  This is rather inefficient and not
                true to the intention of the original benchmark (where
                a pointer comparison to None is intended; the !=
                operator attempts to find a method __cmp__ to do value
                comparison of the record).  Version 1.1 runs 5-10
                percent faster than version 1.0, so benchmark figures
                of different versions can't be compared directly.

"""

LOOPS = 1000000 # number of loops for Psyco run

from time import clock

__version__ = "1.1"

[Ident1, Ident2, Ident3, Ident4, Ident5] = range(1, 6)

class Record:

    def __init__(self, PtrComp = None, Discr = 0, EnumComp = 0,
                       IntComp = 0, StringComp = 0):
        self.PtrComp = PtrComp
        self.Discr = Discr
        self.EnumComp = EnumComp
        self.IntComp = IntComp
        self.StringComp = StringComp

    def copy(self):
        return Record(self.PtrComp, self.Discr, self.EnumComp,
                      self.IntComp, self.StringComp)

TRUE = 1
FALSE = 0

def mydiv(a,b):
    try:
        return float(a) / b
    except:
        return float("nan")

def main():
    print "Pystone(%s) time loops per second" % __version__
    psy_time = pystones_psycho(LOOPS)[0]
    print "Psyco for %d passes %g %g" % (LOOPS, psy_time, mydiv(LOOPS,
psy_time))


def pystones_psycho(*loopslist):
    import psyco
    old_dict = Record.__dict__.copy()
    try:
        # replace all methods of Record by proxies
        #for key, value in old_dict.items():
        #    if type(value) is type(main):
        #        Record.__dict__[key] = _psyco.proxy(value, 99)
        f = psyco.proxy(Proc0)
        return map(f, loopslist)
    finally:
        Record.__dict__.update(old_dict)

def pystones_reg(*loopslist):
    return map(Proc0, loopslist)

IntGlob = 0
BoolGlob = FALSE
Char1Glob = '\0'
Char2Glob = '\0'
Array1Glob = [0]*51
Array2Glob = map(lambda x: x[:], [Array1Glob]*51)
PtrGlb = None
PtrGlbNext = None

def Proc0(loops=LOOPS):
    global IntGlob
    global BoolGlob
    global Char1Glob
    global Char2Glob
    global Array1Glob
    global Array2Glob
    global PtrGlb
    global PtrGlbNext

    PtrGlbNext = Record()
    PtrGlb = Record()
    PtrGlb.PtrComp = PtrGlbNext
    PtrGlb.Discr = Ident1
    PtrGlb.EnumComp = Ident3
    PtrGlb.IntComp = 40
    PtrGlb.StringComp = "DHRYSTONE PROGRAM, SOME STRING"
    String1Loc = "DHRYSTONE PROGRAM, 1'ST STRING"
    Array2Glob[8][7] = 10

    starttime = clock()

    for i in range(loops):
        Proc5()
        Proc4()
        IntLoc1 = 2
        IntLoc2 = 3
        String2Loc = "DHRYSTONE PROGRAM, 2'ND STRING"
        EnumLoc = Ident2
        BoolGlob = not Func2(String1Loc, String2Loc)
        while IntLoc1 < IntLoc2:
            IntLoc3 = 5 * IntLoc1 - IntLoc2
            IntLoc3 = Proc7(IntLoc1, IntLoc2)
            IntLoc1 = IntLoc1 + 1
        Proc8(Array1Glob, Array2Glob, IntLoc1, IntLoc3)
        PtrGlb = Proc1(PtrGlb)
        CharIndex = 'A'
        while CharIndex <= Char2Glob:
            if EnumLoc == Func1(CharIndex, 'C'):
                EnumLoc = Proc6(Ident1)
            CharIndex = chr(ord(CharIndex)+1)
        IntLoc3 = IntLoc2 * IntLoc1
        IntLoc2 = IntLoc3 / IntLoc1
        IntLoc2 = 7 * (IntLoc3 - IntLoc2) - IntLoc1
        IntLoc1 = Proc2(IntLoc1)

    benchtime = clock() - starttime
    return benchtime

def Proc1(PtrParIn):
    PtrParIn.PtrComp = NextRecord = PtrGlb.copy()
    PtrParIn.IntComp = 5
    NextRecord.IntComp = PtrParIn.IntComp
    NextRecord.PtrComp = PtrParIn.PtrComp
    NextRecord.PtrComp = Proc3(NextRecord.PtrComp)
    if NextRecord.Discr == Ident1:
        NextRecord.IntComp = 6
        NextRecord.EnumComp = Proc6(PtrParIn.EnumComp)
        NextRecord.PtrComp = PtrGlb.PtrComp
        NextRecord.IntComp = Proc7(NextRecord.IntComp, 10)
    else:
        PtrParIn = NextRecord.copy()
    NextRecord.PtrComp = None
    return PtrParIn

def Proc2(IntParIO):
    IntLoc = IntParIO + 10
    while 1:
        if Char1Glob == 'A':
            IntLoc = IntLoc - 1
            IntParIO = IntLoc - IntGlob
            EnumLoc = Ident1
        if EnumLoc == Ident1:
            break
    return IntParIO

def Proc3(PtrParOut):
    global IntGlob

    if PtrGlb is not None:
        PtrParOut = PtrGlb.PtrComp
    else:
        IntGlob = 100
    PtrGlb.IntComp = Proc7(10, IntGlob)
    return PtrParOut

def Proc4():
    global Char2Glob

    BoolLoc = Char1Glob == 'A'
    BoolLoc = BoolLoc or BoolGlob
    Char2Glob = 'B'

def Proc5():
    global Char1Glob
    global BoolGlob

    Char1Glob = 'A'
    BoolGlob = FALSE

def Proc6(EnumParIn):
    EnumParOut = EnumParIn
    if not Func3(EnumParIn):
        EnumParOut = Ident4
    if EnumParIn == Ident1:
        EnumParOut = Ident1
    elif EnumParIn == Ident2:
        if IntGlob > 100:
            EnumParOut = Ident1
        else:
            EnumParOut = Ident4
    elif EnumParIn == Ident3:
        EnumParOut = Ident2
    elif EnumParIn == Ident4:
        pass
    elif EnumParIn == Ident5:
        EnumParOut = Ident3
    return EnumParOut

def Proc7(IntParI1, IntParI2):
    IntLoc = IntParI1 + 2
    IntParOut = IntParI2 + IntLoc
    return IntParOut

def Proc8(Array1Par, Array2Par, IntParI1, IntParI2):
    global IntGlob

    IntLoc = IntParI1 + 5
    Array1Par[IntLoc] = IntParI2
    Array1Par[IntLoc+1] = Array1Par[IntLoc]
    Array1Par[IntLoc+30] = IntLoc
    for IntIndex in range(IntLoc, IntLoc+2):
        Array2Par[IntLoc][IntIndex] = IntLoc
    Array2Par[IntLoc][IntLoc-1] = Array2Par[IntLoc][IntLoc-1] + 1
    Array2Par[IntLoc+20][IntLoc] = Array1Par[IntLoc]
    IntGlob = 5

def Func1(CharPar1, CharPar2):
    CharLoc1 = CharPar1
    CharLoc2 = CharLoc1
    if CharLoc2 != CharPar2:
        return Ident1
    else:
        return Ident2

def Func2(StrParI1, StrParI2):
    IntLoc = 1
    while IntLoc <= 1:
        if Func1(StrParI1[IntLoc], StrParI2[IntLoc+1]) == Ident1:
            CharLoc = 'A'
            IntLoc = IntLoc + 1
    if CharLoc >= 'W' and CharLoc <= 'Z':
        IntLoc = 7
    if CharLoc == 'X':
        return TRUE
    else:
        if StrParI1 > StrParI2:
            IntLoc = IntLoc + 7
            return TRUE
        else:
            return FALSE

def Func3(EnumParIn):
    EnumLoc = EnumParIn
    if EnumLoc == Ident3: return TRUE
    return FALSE

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


From aahz at panix.com  Sun Mar 10 21:30:49 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 18:30:49 -0800
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com> <oBTi8.1475$523.127893@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <a6h4sp$r45$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <oBTi8.1475$523.127893 at ozemail.com.au>,
Patrick <netlangau at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
>news:a6g7ra$lm6$1 at panix2.panix.com...
>>
>> But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
>> than C/Python?
>
>One example is an extremely complex and long-running simulation in which the
>time-critical components are a very substantial chunk of the project. In
>those (rare) situations you need ruthless efficiency with slightly better
>than rudimentary abstraction capabilities. C++ fits the bill, but only if
>every processor cycle and every byte counts.

Right, and if you've got a project like that, you'd better have someone
like Alex Martelli handy, because otherwise your C++ program will bloat
with every advanced C++ feature you use.  I'd bet that 90% of so-called
C++ programmers would do far better in this case with C/Python.

I once had to deal with a C++ DLL written by a programmer who I had a
decent amount of respect for.  I did not (and do not) know C++, and
don't particularly consider myself a C programmer -- but in a week I'd
used C to rewrite his DLL mostly from scratch.  I removed the
Windows-isms (because I was developing on Solaris), and my code was
shorter, faster, and bugless.  The part I was most aghast about was that
he did the moral equivalent of this:

    buffer = ''
    for tmp_buf in input:
        buffer = buffer + tmp_buf
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."  --Richard Bach


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar  1 19:08:18 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Mar 2002 01:08:18 +0100
Subject: Windows Memory Mapped Files
References: <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203011455170.1233-100000@garcia.efn.org>
Message-ID: <m3vgcfltl9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Spencer Ernest Doidge <spencer at efn.org> writes:

> Is there a way, running a Python script in a console window, to read/write
> Memory Mapped files?

Using the mmap module, this should be possible.

Regards,
Martin


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Tue Mar  5 14:09:26 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:09:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for        numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org> <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <mailman.1015092245.20363.python-list@python.org> <slrna87sk7.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <slrna87vg9.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <7xbse3j3u4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8a5v6.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On 04 Mar 2002 15:44:19 -0800, Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu) writes:
>> So my question now is:  What do I do to tell Python to compile with -lieee?
>
>I just edited the makefile and found the LIBS line and added -lieee.
>I didn't uncomment that #define that you found.

OK, this solves the immediate problem.  But there are quite a few puzzles:

1. The -lieee is indeed the most direct cure.

   On prestine source, do configure; make; mv python python.bak; make -n
   python.  This shows the final linking command, which has no -lieee.  Use
   that line plus -lieee to produce a new python binary.  Testing both with
   1e-200**2.  One raises OverflowError while the other does not.

2. Is there a configure option to guarantee -lieee?

   Changing pyconfig.h.in to #define HAVE_LIBIEEE 1 does not make -lieee
   appear in the Makefile, even though it get into pyconfig.h.

3. errno 34 (or -lieee) may not be the sole reason.

   On a RedHat 6.1 upgraded to 7.1 (both gcc and glibc), errno 34 is indeed
   raised in a C program linked without -lieee, and Python is indeed
   compiled without -lieee, but Python does not raise OverflowError.

   It appears that the problem is neither gcc nor glibc, as Konrad Hinsen
   reported that on a stock RedHat 7.1 Python did raise.

4. Is there an easier way to debug such problems?

   Maybe a C test program should be included in the configure script or in
   the Tools directory so that people can easily report various conditions?
   Such environmental testing is essential if Python is defining its own
   numerical behavior indenpendent of IEEE or C. (but see below)

   I once asked a question about a wierd behavior of Octave and the author
   sent me a C program and asked for results.  He modified the program and
   asked me to test it again.  The problem was solved in just two rounds of
   exchange.

5. How is 1e200**2 handled?

   Since both 1e-200**2 and 1e200**2 produce the same errno all the time,
   but Python still raises OverflowError for 1e200**2 when linked with
   -lieee, there must be a separate mechanism at work.  What is that and how
   can I override it?  I know this is by design, but I think the design is
   dumb (to put it politely). I won't get into an argument here.  I'll write
   up my rationale against this when I have some time.  I do remember there
   being several discussions in the past, but I don't remember any
   convincing argument for the current decision.  Any URL would be greatly
   appreciated, beside the one pointed by Tim.  Achieving uniformity across
   platform alone is not a convincing reason at all - you could let all
   computation return zero all the time to achieve the greatest
   uniformity. :-)

I hope the above provides enough details and independence among the issues
for experts to ponder about.

Huaiyu



From lluang at northwestern.edu  Thu Mar 28 11:25:07 2002
From: lluang at northwestern.edu (Louis Luangkesorn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:25:07 -0600
Subject: calling a java application result into Python (JPE???)
References: <3C9D66E9.4070802@northwestern.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA343E3.C03ABF90@northwestern.edu>

Thanks for the help.  I ended up using os.chdir(path) instead of os.path and that worked.  However, I was never able to get the java program to get its result into Python (I ended up solving my
problem in a completely unrelated way).

As a more academic question, (and since my solution may not cover all the bases so I may have to revisit this) how do you call a Java application and return the result into Python.  I saw the
Java-Python Extension, but I could not figure out how to get started.  Thanks.

Louis

--
K Louis Luangkesorn
lluang at northwestern.edu  http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~kll560  PGP:0xF3E2D362
Whatsoever things are true, ... honest, ... just, ... pure, ... lovely, ... of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.- motto - Northwestern
University




From Kevin.Smith at theMorgue.org  Tue Mar  5 15:05:10 2002
From: Kevin.Smith at theMorgue.org (Kevin Smith)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 20:05:10 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.2 with GCC in HPUX 10.20 does not work
References: <mailman.1014671543.6120.python-list@python.org> <3C848CBF.9000201@vip.fi> <j4664b73qp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C84F129.70905@vip.fi>
Message-ID: <20020305150516592-0500@braeburn.na.sas.com>

I got Python 2.2 to compile on HPUX 10.20 with gcc 2.95.3.  I got a very
similar error to what was in your message.  I actually just added the
following line to Modules/socketmodule.c at line 161 just above the
'#ifndef RISCOS' block.

int h_errno;

Otherwise, it didn't look like h_errno was ever being declared.  I can't
help you with the curses problem.  I still haven't gotten that to work.

Kevin Smith


In <3C84F129.70905 at vip.fi> pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> wrote:
>
>--------------020604040107000300090304
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>True, HP-UX's default compiler is only meant for compliling the kernel
>therefore  I installed  binutils v2.11.2,  gcc v3.01 and gmake v3.79.1 from
>HP's software repository and tried compiling with this script:
>
>#! /usr/bin/sh
>export CCOPTS='+z'
>unset LANG
>gmake distclean
>CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-threads=no --without-cxx 
>--prefix=/opt/python
>
>gmake fails twice:
>
>1)
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getaddrinfo.c:544: 
>warning: `h_error' might be used uninitialized in this funcn
>In file included from 
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:239:
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c: In 
>function `getnameinfo':
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c:184: 
>`h_errno' undeclared (first use in this function)
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c: In 
>function `gethost_common':
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:1975: 
>`h_errno' undeclared (first use in this function)
>WARNING: building of extension "_socket" failed: command 'gcc' failed 
>with exit status 1 
>
>2)
>gcc -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I. 
>-I/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/./Include -I/usr/local/incluo
>ld -b build/temp.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_cursesmodule.o 
>-L/usr/local/lib -lncurses -o build/lib.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_curl
>ld: DP relative code in file /usr/local/lib/libncurses.a(lib_addch.o) - 
>shared library must be position
>    independent.  Use +z or +Z to recompile.
>WARNING: building of extension "_curses" failed: command 'ld' failed 
>with exit status 1 
>
>Anybody solved these problems
>
>-pekka-
>
>Martin von Loewis wrote:
>
>>pekka niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> writes:
>>
>>>I tried the build script below in HP-UX 10.20
>>>( HP-UX B.10.20 A 9000/777 2002144332 two-user license)
>>>and got the following errors during make:
>>>
>>>cc -Ae -c -DNDEBUG -O -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o
>>>Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
>>>(Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -A option is available only with the
>>>C/ANSI C product; ignored.
>>>(Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -O option is available only with the
>>>C/ANSI C product; ignored.
>>>
>>
>>It seems that you are using the bundled compiler. Python source code
>>is ANSI C, you need an ANSI C compiler to compile it. Try either the
>>HP ANSI C compiler, or gcc (the former being recommended).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Martin
>>
>
>
>--------------020604040107000300090304
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
><html>
><head>
></head>
><body>
>True, HP-UX's default compiler is only meant for compliling the kernel <br>
>therefore &nbsp;I installed &nbsp;binutils v2.11.2,&nbsp; gcc v3.01 and
>gmake v3.79.1 from<br>
>HP's software repository and tried compiling with this script:<br>
><br>
>#! /usr/bin/sh<br>
>export CCOPTS='+z'<br>
>unset LANG<br>
>gmake distclean<br>
>CC=gcc ./configure --with-gcc --with-threads=no --without-cxx -
>-prefix=/opt/python
><br>
><br>
>gmake fails twice:<br>
><br>
>1)<br>
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getaddrinfo.c:544:
>warning:
>`h_error' might be used uninitialized in this funcn<br>
>In file included from /osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python
>-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:239:<br>
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c: In
>function
>`getnameinfo':<br>
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/getnameinfo.c:184:
>`h_errno'
>undeclared (first use in this function)<br>
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c: In
>function
>`gethost_common':<br>
>/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:1975:
>`h_errno' undeclared (first use in this function)<br>
>WARNING: building of extension "_socket" failed: command 'gcc' failed with
>exit status 1&nbsp; <br>
><br>
>2)<br>
>gcc -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I. 
>-I/osasto/home/niirape/python_softa/Python-2.2/./Include
>-I/usr/local/incluo<br>
>ld -b build/temp.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_cursesmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib
>-lncurses -o build/lib.hp-ux-B.10.20-9000/777-2.2/_curl<br>
>ld: DP relative code in file /usr/local/lib/libncurses.a(lib_addch.o) - shared
>library must be position<br>
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; independent.&nbsp; Use +z or +Z to recompile.<br>
>WARNING: building of extension "_curses" failed: command 'ld' failed with
>exit status 1&nbsp; <br>
><br>
>Anybody solved these problems<br>
><br>
>-pekka-<br>
><br>
>Martin von Loewis wrote:<br>
><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:j4664b73qp.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de">
>  <pre wrap="">pekka niiranen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
>  href="mailto:krissepu at vip.fi">&lt;krissepu at vip.fi&gt;</a>
>  writes:<br><br></pre>
>  <blockquote type="cite">
>    <pre wrap="">I tried the build script below in HP-UX 10.20<br>( HP
>    -UX B.10.20 A 9000/777 2002144332 two-user license)<br>and got the
>    following errors during make:<br><br>cc -Ae -c -DNDEBUG -O -I. 
>    -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o<br>Modules/python.o
>    Modules/python.c<br>(Bundled) cc: warning 480: The -A option is
>    available only with the<br>C/ANSI C product; ignored.<br>(Bundled)
>    cc: warning 480: The -O option is available only with the<br>C/ANSI
>    C product; ignored.<br></pre>
>    </blockquote>
>    <pre wrap=""><!----><br>It seems that you are using the bundled
>    compiler. Python source code<br>is ANSI C, you need an ANSI C
>    compiler to compile it. Try either the<br>HP ANSI C compiler, or gcc
>    (the former being recommended).<br><br>Regards,<br>Martin<br></pre>
>    </blockquote>
>    <br>
>    </body>
>    </html>
>>--------------020604040107000300090304-->


From laz at strakt.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:09 2002
From: laz at strakt.com (Fredrik Juhlin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:23:09 +0100
Subject: ICU wrapper for Python?
In-Reply-To: <m3g03kq9z8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1012816506.11178.python-list@python.org> <m3g03kq9z8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20020305092309.GB15135@strakt.com>

On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 10:00:43PM +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Fredrik Juhlin <laz at strakt.com> writes:
> 
> > I was fiddling around with a Python wrapper for the ICU libraries this
> > weekend, when it occured to me to check if anyone else is/has been working
> > on the same thing. I looked around a bit on the net but couldn't find
> > anything, so I figured I'd drop a question here too :)
> 
> Did you make any progress on that? I'd be most interested in exposing
> the codecs.
Yes I did, actually. My main interest was in collation, so that's what
I've done so far. Now I'm at the point where I need to write some docs and
such.

However, I'm relying on the fact that since Python uses UCS-2 and ICU uses
UTF-16 for their respective internal format, any Python unicode string can
be used as an ICU unicode string. So for the collation I don't need to do
any conversion between the two. To expose the codecs, one would have to
convert the resulting strings from UTF-16 to UCS-2.

I have functions to convert between Python unicode strings and ICU dittos
and while they do work, they need to go through the "make it right" and
"make it fast" stages.

Also, so far I've only tested this on my own (x86 Linux) system. 

If you're interested in what I have so far, I'll stick it on a web server
for downloading. That'll have to wait until tonight though, since my
latest version is at home.

Any feedback would certainly be welcome!

//FJ



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Thu Mar 14 00:35:43 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:35:43 GMT
Subject: basic statistics in python
References: <OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <a6on8n$frj93$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <QTUj8.10299$Ex5.957528@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <PEWj8.10349$k5.3869114@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

it looks like there is a D/COM interface to R, though. Not really a python
solution, but it might work anyway.


"Matthew Austin" <threehounds at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:QTUj8.10299$Ex5.957528 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> RPy has not been ported to Windows yet.
>
>
> "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
> news:a6on8n$frj93$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> > "dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
> > news:OvQj8.10177$k5.3810357 at newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> > > hi all,
> > >
> > > never having done numeric calculations in python* i am seeking advice
> > on how
> > > to best go about doing some basic statistics.  in particular, i need
> > to find
> > > standard deviations and point bi-serial correlations**, and i am
> > seeking
> > > advice on the best way to go about it.  i know how to do them, but i
> > am
> > > wondering if there are prebuilt modules that might simplify the task.
> >
> > You might want to take a look at rpy at
> > http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm/rpy/
> >
> > --
> >
> > Emile van Sebille
> > emile at fenx.com
> >
> > ---------
> >
>
>




From florian.konnertz at web.de  Fri Mar 15 15:19:14 2002
From: florian.konnertz at web.de (Florian Konnertz)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:19:14 +0100
Subject: MySQL-mod: setup-error: invalid distrib.option 'platforms'
Message-ID: <3C925742.8040001@web.de>

Hi! Any idea how to solve this prob?

root at xy /usr/local/mysql/MySQL-python-0.9.1 > python setup.py build
error in setup script: invalid distribution option 'platforms'

OS: SuSe 7.2
Python 2.0
MySQL: /usr/local/mysql/bin/mysql
	Ver 11.17 Distrib 3.23.49a, for pc-linux-gnu (i686)

In setup.py I changed the following var. to my local paths:
...
if sys.platform in ("linux-i386", "linux2"): # most Linux
     include_dirs = ['/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql']
#    include_dirs = ['/usr/include/mysql']
     library_dirs = ['/usr/local/mysql/lib']
#    library_dirs = ['/usr/lib/mysql']


I appreciate your help!  What's wrong?  Are my paths too irregular?
Thanx.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 29 18:11:37 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 00:11:37 +0100
Subject: IOError on file close
References: <ua9n9hhmdicned@corp.supernews.com> <m3lmcbui00.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ua9sfc1ighfi36@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m38z8bufyu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Michael S. Fischer" <michael+usenet at dynamine.net> writes:

> It appears that the write() call is the one that's failing, not the
> close() call.  Python is throwing the exception at the wrong time. 
> Should I report this as a Python bug?

Not really. My guess is that the C library buffers the write call, and
attempts to flush the stream when closing the file. This, in turn,
produces the error - the write itself succeeds. Python uses the code

	n2 = fwrite(s, 1, n, f->f_fp);
	if (n2 != n) {
		PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_IOError);
		clearerr(f->f_fp);
		return NULL;
	}

so it would definitely report an exception if fwrite reported an error.

Just try opening the file without buffering.

Regards,
Martin
 


From rs96057 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 23 08:46:58 2002
From: rs96057 at hotmail.com (Dimitris Garanatsios)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:46:58 +0200
Subject: Info needed on metaclasses / type-ing
Message-ID: <a7i109$ufh$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>

I recently browsed through an unfinished book of Bruce Eckel, "Thinking in
Python", Revision 0.1.2
I can't remember the URL where i got it, but i found it through searching
for documentation on Python from the main site, www.python.org

I found the following peace of code there:

------------------------------------------------------------------

#: c01:SingletonMetaClass.py
class SingletonMetaClass(type):
    def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
        super(SingletonMetaClass, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
        original_new = cls.__new__

        def my_new(cls, *args, **kwds):
            if cls.instance == None:
                cls.instance = original_new(cls, *args, **kwds)
            return cls.instance

        cls.instance = None
        cls.__new__ = staticmethod(my_new)

class bar(object):
    __metaclass__ = SingletonMetaClass

    def __init__(self,val):
        self.val = val

    def __str__(self):
        return `self` + self.val

...
#:~

------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is about the "SingletonMetaClass" class.
I have tried in the past to create my own types using Python and just could
not find a way of doing that since built-in type objects' structure where
not documented.

The "SingletonMetaClass though", as far as i can understand, please help me
with that, is doing exactly what i wanted: a new type definition. I browsed
Python's manuals to find more about the attributes and functions that are
used, but found nothing...

Could anyone help me find information about the meaning and use of the
following attributes/functions/objects? These are:

--- the "__metaclass__" attribute of the "bar" class (derived from object)

--- the "object" object itself

--- the "super" function used in the "SingletonMetaClass" class (a class for
a new type object?)

--- the "__new__" attribute/method of a class (applies to any class?)

--- the "staticmethod" function used in the "SingletonMetaClass" class

--- any additional info about related classes or functions that are not used
in the above example but exist and are available to use

Thanx, Dimitris





From metaliu at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 13:55:55 2002
From: metaliu at yahoo.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:55:55 -0800
Subject: new images from strings using PIL
References: <a5osud$nj1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov> <Vvxg8.22784$n4.4309187@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <a60g74$eqc$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>

Ahhhh.  Thanks very much.

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:Vvxg8.22784$n4.4309187 at newsc.telia.net...
> try this instead:
>
>     >>> pixels = "1 2 3 4 5 6"
>     >>> i = Image.new("L", (3, 2))
>     >>> i.putdata(map(int, pixels.split()))
>
>     >>> list(i.getdata())
>     [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>
>     >>> i.getextrema()
>     (1, 6)
>
> (getdata returns a sequence object of an undefined type. to
> see what's in it, convert it to a list or tuple before printing it)
>
> </F>
>
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 01:44:33 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:44:33 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com> <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3CA5F90F.BF37B528@engcorp.com> <m3ofh593zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3CA6B051.6D55B4D5@engcorp.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> > So does this change proposes to change the readability so that
> > it is clear at a glance (at the source, not the documentation, which
> > seems an odd thing to base this on) that those functions return
> > boolean conditions rather than integers?
> 
> The documentation should change as all, documenting that certain
> functions return bool.

But your point in the message I was replying to was that there
are 300 functions which have code that says "return 0" or "return 1"
or "return None" and the change will help users of those functions.  
Didn't that imply those users are not looking at the documentation,
but are trying to read the source to figure out how the code works?
If the documentation must be changed, why not just make it clear
in the documentation what it means when a method returns 1 or 0 or None?

> > Furthermore, there will be code breakage, and that should always
> > rate very high on the list of reasons to leave well enough alone.
> 
> Can you show examples of (real!) code that will break? Preferably code
> you've written yourself.

I don't even need to dig up examples since I so often put this
code at the start of my modules:

True, False = 1, 0

Or, now that I think of it, will that continue to work as these
will just be built-ins now hidden by my local definitions?  If so,
my bad for mentioning code breakage.

-Peter


From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Tue Mar 26 19:10:30 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 16:10:30 -0800
Subject: python on Sharp Zaurus
References: <mailman.1017184128.13724.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xadsuan0p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dave Reed <dreed at capital.edu> writes:

> Does anyone know if Python runs on the new Sharp Zaurus?
> 
> http://www.idg.net/go.cgi?id=656429

Yes, it does.


From fgeiger at datec.at  Mon Mar 25 08:56:46 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:56:46 +0100
Subject: VideoCapture 0.7 causes Blue Screens on W2k Prof.
Message-ID: <a7nad5$b33$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

Win2k Prof. / SP2 (German)
DirectX 8.1 (German)
PIL 1.1.2
VideoCapture 0.7
ActivePython 2.1.1 (Build 212)

I'm experiencing Blue Screens when working with VideoCapture, especially
after rerunning the app after correction of syntax errors:

"STOP: 0x0000001E (0xC0000005, 0x00110010, 0x0000000, 0x00110010)
KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

Beginn des Speicherabbildes
<snipped>
"

Did anyone have this problem too and could get rid of it? Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance and best regards
Franz GEIGER





From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar 16 00:38:52 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:38:52 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <2b57f654.0203151009.296bb7da@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna95mk3.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <2b57f654.0203151009.296bb7da at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:
> grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in message news:<slrna92u5t.8oq.grante at tuxtop.visi.com>...
>> In article <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:
>> 
>> >         selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
>> >         (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables, selectables)
>> 
>> It looks like you've got the first two parameters to select
>> reversed.  After the above call, output is going to contain
>> writable sockets.  If you're wanting to read data, you should
>> do:
>> 
>>           (output, input, exc) = select.select(selectables,[],selectables)
> 
> Ding ding ding!  You are correct, sir!  Thanks for the help, I was
> doing it backwards.  The python docs are a bit unclear to me on this
> point.  Thanks for the help, it now works perfectly as expectorated.

Here's hint: Many of the Python libraries are just thin
wrappers around the standard OS library calls.  Doing a "man
select" will get you more detailed information that may help
you understand the Python docs better.  Sometimes not.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  HELLO, little boys!
                                  at               Gimme a MINT TULIP!! Let's
                               visi.com            do the BOSSA NOVA!!


From zugz.public at DELETEMEcwcom.net  Tue Mar 19 13:07:01 2002
From: zugz.public at DELETEMEcwcom.net (Zugz)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:07:01 -0000
Subject: Pure python alternative to mx.DateTime?
References: <a76u45$2iro$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de> <mailman.1016547271.18075.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1016561221.17563.0.nnrp-13.c2463c5f@news.demon.co.uk>

>Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016547271.18075.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Lutz> Unfortunately I'm in need of some simple time and date
>     Lutz> calculations (ISO-time, how many days from now, weekdays, etc.).
>
>     Lutz> Is there any alternative to mx without inventing the wheel for
the
>     Lutz> second time and programming it by myself?
>
> There's Jeff Bauer's NormalDate module:
>
>     http://starship.python.net/crew/jbauer/normaldate/index.html

Thanks for this link.
Zugz.




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Sat Mar  9 12:21:39 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:21:39 GMT
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
Message-ID: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de>

Bored, I spent the past few hours writing a small, 100% useless
language. It doesn't have a name, so I call it UNBABTIZED (as in: has
not been given a name yet), which is, right there, a
self-contradiction. What a good start! 

Because the interpreter is written in python, you can enhance your
existing scripting apps by a small, 100% useless language! You might
even want to rewrite all your autocoding (TR) tools in UNBABTIZED if
you find it easier to learn than plain python <neginf.wink>.

Having said that, its a procedural language in that its not a
functional one, and is probably best thought of as one very elaborate
excursion away from brainfuck.

You can write integer literals: "0", "1", and so on.

UNBABTIZED has an array of 1000 memory cells. You can refer to memory
cells:

"?0" is the first memory cell,
"?1" is the second memory cell,
"?999" is the last memory cell.

You can assign data to memory cells:

"!x,y" will assign the value y (either literal or memory cell) to the
memory cell of index x. Obviously, you cannot assign values to
literals.

Instructions are separated by ".", so

"A.B.C" means three consecutive instructions A, B and C.

You can do basic arithmetic:

"~x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]+memory[y]
"(x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]-memory[y]
")x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]*memory[y]
"[x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]/memory[y]

and evaluation

"Ax,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]<memory[y]
"?x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]<=memory[y]
"$x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]==memory[y]
"%x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]>memory[y]
"&x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]>=memory[y]
"/x,y" will set memory[x] to memory[x]<>memory[y]

If you need logic functions, write wrapper code using arithmetic
functions and evaluation. You can do output

":x" will write x as char
"@x" will write x as integer

There is no input. There is a philosophy behind this, you know! To my
view, there are two kinds of input, user input and hardcoded input.
User input sucks, and hardcoded input rules, so there.

You can do a DO-WHILE-NOT style loop better expressed as a computed
goto. This c-code

loop_begin:
	...
	if( memory[x] ) goto loop

is written as

","
...(instructions here)...
"-x"

Loops can be nested (at least in theory, but I haven't tested this ;).

There are no comments. Comments are for wimps! Note that Newlines,
Tabs, Spaces etc. are considered comments, too, so they are not
allowed either. Get an editor that can handle long lines, if you want
to mess with UNBABTIZED.

Examples? This

:72.:101.:108.:108.:111.:32.:87.:111.:114.:108.:100

will print "Hello, World", and this

!0,1.!1,1.!2,1.!3,1.,.@?0.!4,?0.!0,?1.~4,?0.!1,?4.~2,?3.!5,?2.A5,10.-5

will print the first ten fibonacci numbers.

The interpreter reqiures Python 2.2 (or higher ;) because of the
changes in lambda-scope. I'm using some of my lambda tricks here. The
code looks very pythonesque, IMHO:

------------------------------- (cut here) -----------------------
import sys

f = sys.argv[1]

o = [0,[],[0]*1000,lambda x:o[4]("o[2]")+"x,o[2][x]%sy)" %x,
     lambda x:x+".__setitem__(",open(f).read().split("."),0,
     1,None,lambda x,y:o.__setitem__(x,y),lambda:o[9](7,o[6]
     .find("?")),lambda:len(o[6][o[8]:o[8]+1]) and o[6][o[8]
     :o[8]+1] in "0123456789",lambda:o[9](6,o[6][:o[7]]+"o["\
     "2]["+o[6][o[7]+1:o[8]]+"]"+o[6][o[8]:]),lambda:(o[11](
     )and(o[9](8,o[8]+1),o[13]())or 0),lambda:o[7]>=0 and(o[
     9](8,o[7]+1),o[13](),o[12]()),lambda:"(lambda x=None,y"\
     "=None:%s)(%s)"%({'!':o[4]("o[2]")+"x,y)",'@':"sys.std"\
     "out.write(str(x)+chr(10))",':':"sys.stdout.write(chr("\
     "x))",'~':o[3]("+"),'(':o[3]("-"),')':o[3]("*"),'[':o[3
     ]("/"),"A":o[3]("<"),"?":o[3]("<="),"$":o[3]("=="),"%":
     o[3](">"),"&":o[3](">="),"/":o[3]("<>"),',':"o[1].appe"\
     "nd(o[0])",'-':"o[2][x] and ("+o[4]("o")+"0,o[1][0]-1)"\
     ",o[1].__setslice__(1,len(o[1]),o[1][1:]))or 0",}[o[6][
     0]],o[6][1:]),lambda:(o[9](6,o[5][o[0]]),o[10](),o[14](
     ),eval(o[15]()),o[9](0,o[0]+1)),lambda:o[0] < len(o[5])
     and(o[16](),o[17]())]

o[17]()
------------------------------- (cut here) -----------------------

One thing though, I wanted to make o[17]() the last item in o, but
that didn't work. Because, at the time o[17] is evaluated, o does not
yet exist. [Long explanation: If you write

o = <something>

then the interpreter will first evaluate <something>, then create o
and assign it. So you cannot refer to o other than in lambda
statements. Even if you were to cheat by writing something like this

o,x = <something>,o[17]()

it wouldn't work, because the right side is treated as a tuple and
evaluated first, and only THEN assigned to the left variables.]

Has anybody any idea of how, with a possibly insane abuse of the
rules, you could put the whole code in an array? Should I write a PEP?

Anyway, enjoy!

Gerson Kurz
http://p-nand-q.com


ps: Congratulations to Jason Orendorff for winning in this years
IOCCC. 



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar  6 21:28:09 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:28:09 +1300
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
References: <mailman.1015366993.15304.python-list@python.org> <df3b00ed.0203060307.5564a151@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015428670.1823.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86D039.5FF7A99F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Marco Herrn wrote:
> 
> hmm, do I have to implement that in _every_ method or just in
> methods who use the 'self' statement?

In every method. The instance is always passed in
as the first parameter, so there must be a parameter
there to receive it, even if it's not used inside
the method.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 14:15:34 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:15:34 GMT
Subject: wxProgressDialog wonky under Win32
References: <gc6j8.19334$N7.4409910@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <qn7j8.19386$N7.4421525@ruti.visi.com>

In article <gc6j8.19334$N7.4409910 at ruti.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:

> Under Win32, the bargraph in a wxProgressDialog hits "full"
> about 10-20% of the way to the "max" value.

As usual, one never finds the answer until after the posting
hits the net...

According to one of the wx mailing list archives, this is a
known bug in the MSW port of wxWindows (the "size" value of a
gauge is treated as a 16-bit number).  It's been fixed, but
it's still available only from CVS.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. the HIGHWAY is
                                  at               made out of LIME JELLO and
                               visi.com            my HONDA is a barbequed
                                                   OYSTER! Yum!


From curtin at ubsw.com  Tue Mar  5 18:29:47 2002
From: curtin at ubsw.com (craig curtin)
Date: 5 Mar 2002 15:29:47 -0800
Subject: stdout/stderr disabled when debugging in pythonwin (somehow i disabled it...)
References: <4c7395cb.0203050706.668a8eaa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4c7395cb.0203051529.26e77892@posting.google.com>

i may have found the problem.

i'm doing some WebDAV stuff and getting large quantities
of XML data back from an Exchange 2000 server.

well when i got the resultant data. sometimes the data 
had characters above 128.

i did a search and decided to try this in my code:

>>> import sys
>>> reload(sys)
>>> sys.setdefaultencoding('mbcs')

and i *seemed* to fix the problem... but blew away my stdout/stderr
in the mean time.

craig


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Thu Mar 21 16:12:23 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:12:23 GMT
Subject: quick win32 pipe and objects question
Message-ID: <X0sm8.575$d7.169869@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

when writing and reading from a pipe, is it okay to do something like ...

>>> t = (0, 1, 2, 3)
>>> r = win32pipe.CallNamedPipe(pipename, t, 512, 0)

of should i pickle t first?

-d




From shimmie at shimmie.com  Tue Mar 19 08:07:59 2002
From: shimmie at shimmie.com (Shimmie)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:07:59 GMT
Subject: socket programming
References: <mailman.1016480129.2465.python-list@python.org> <a75mqm$nrb$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <PKGl8.11109$Hz2.45237@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Here is a neat little UDP example:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52302

Shimmie.

> > Anybody know where can i find a good (beginner) tutorial
> > about Socket Programming using Python ?





From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sun Mar 17 03:11:34 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:11:34 +1100
Subject: Pythonic Porter stemmers (Was: Re: Word frequencies -- Python or Perl 
 for performance?)
References: <mailman.1016223990.19235.python-list@python.org> <a6tsnr$npd$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1016233166.10632.python-list@python.org> <a715ns$ga9$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3C944FB6.221C0EAC@optushome.com.au>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100, Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote:
> [...]
> >
> >I concur with Bengt's suggested approach, plus you might want to use
> >something like the Porter Stemmer algorithm to convert words to their
> >"base" forms eg stepped -> step
> >
> >See http://www.tartarus.org/~martin/PorterStemmer/python.txt for a
> >Python implementation.
> >
> Any idea on the license status of that? I saw nothing mentioned
> in the text itself except and apparent reference to a book.

No idea re that code, but the Porter stemming algorithm was described in
the computer science literature about 20 years ago, and AFAIK, the
algorithm is not encumbered by any patents (but you probably should do a
patent search anyway). Also, there are a number of other algorithms
which have been developed since, but I have no idea whether any of them
are generally better, or better for particular purposes. To my lay eyes,
computational linguistics seems like a fascinating but sprawling field
of endeavour and one really needs an expert guide to find one's way
around.

> 
> E.g., if I rewrote it to my taste, could I put the result under PSF
> if I wanted to?

It you worked from a description of the Porter stemmer algorithm rather
than the existing code, you would be free to license the result any way
you please.

Now, I have just discovered another Python implementation of the Porter
stemmer sitting on my hard disk, but I have no idea where I downloaded
it from, and alas, there is no clue to its source or the licensing in
the file, so I sincerely hope I am not violating the terms under which I
originally downloaded it by placing a copy at
http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/Porter.py in case anyone is
interested in it or can identify its provenance.

Cheers,

Tim C



From hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu  Fri Mar  8 10:41:37 2002
From: hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu (Paul Hughett)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 15:41:37 GMT
Subject: ANN: BBLimage 0.66 now available
Message-ID: <a6am3h$mf3$4@netnews.upenn.edu>

The source distribution kit for BBLimage version 0.66 is now available
from

http://www.med.upenn.edu/bbl/bblimage


BBLimage is a collection of tools for processing volume images,
especially medical images; it includes Pyvox, a Python extension
for large multi-dimensional arrays.

Features added in release 0.66 include: The qdv image viewer now
supports 2x zoom, and linking the two displayed images so that image
motion commands apply to both; this facilitates the comparison of
related images using the blink comparator.  Computation of the chamfer
distance and various image statistics have been added.  Most functions
for array norms, metrics, and histograms now accept an optional weight
argument.  The registration classes now support the Pearson product
moment correlation as a similarity metric; they also support an
initial/baseline transform and yield a transform relative to that
baseline.

BBLimage is currently available as an alpha release under an open-
source license and is written in ANSI C and designed to be easily
portable to any Unix or Posix-compatible platform.  Some programs also
require the X Window System.


Paul Hughett

================================================================
Paul Hughett, Ph.D.                Research Associate
Brain Behavior Laboratory          
10th floor Gates Building                    
Hospital of the University         (215) 662-6095 (voice)
    of Pennsylvania                (215) 662-7903 (fax)
3400 Spruce Street                  
Philadelphia PA 19104              hughett at bbl.med.upenn.edu

        A rose by any other name confuses the issue.
                                  -Patrick E. Raume
================================================================




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Mar 25 02:27:40 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 07:27:40 GMT
Subject: files and reading from them
References: <auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
	<a7mgsp$gvh$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <a7mjhc$2opl$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <a7mgsp$gvh$1 at news3.bu.edu>, ricky wrote:

> not sure what you mean
> but check out the "shelve" module

>"Avi Homes" <Moo at houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:auzn8.71680$Vl.2635455 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
>> I am writing a dictionary to a file, like so
>> f.write(str(Info))

>> and what it is writing to the file is the following..
>> {'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}

>> and if i write in two things, i get..
>> {'IPrice': '3', 'IName': 'lame lame', 'IDesc': 'stuff}
>> {'IPrice': '2', 'IName': 'notworking, 'IDesc': 'annoying'}
>> What i would like to do is pull a readline or somesuch.. and have it 
>> take in the whole thing, and then just let me assign that to a empty 
>> name, and turn it into a new dictionary.. like say
>>  file.seek(1)
>> //thats how i'd go to the first place in the file correct?
>> X=file.readline()

>> and now i can say print X['IName'] ... and its turned into a 
>> dictionary..  i am most likely going about this *all* wrong.

 It sounds like you're trying to write your file out in
 "repr" form (representing an object as the string or command
 that would instantiate it).

 I guess you'd do something like: 

	f=open("...","r")
	objlist = []
 	for each in f.readlines():
		objlist.append(eval(each))

 To create an list of anonymous objects.  In your case that would be
 a list of dictionaries.
 


From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 07:22:18 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:22:18 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
Message-ID: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com>

Hello Newsgroup

I'm trying to write a program to calculate diffraction patterns for
electron diffraction on clusters (100-10'000 atoms). So far I used
Python only for CGI programming and system tools (on a rather low
level...). Therefore I don't know whether it's reasonable to program
such a project in Python (I really like the language). Presently my
man concern is speed as the main function of the program is a nested
loop, the inner over several 1000 bins of a histogram and the outer
over several 1000 values of scattering factors. In the end I should be
able to simulate diffraction patterns and compare them to the
experimental data (i.e. run this function several times).

Now my questions: Would it be best to

(a) write the whole program in C/C++ (I know only the basics of C but
it would be a good "excuse" to learn it...)?
(b) write the main program in Python but the heavy calculations in C
(I played today with scipy.weave -- the speed is much better but I
didn't really understand what I was doing...)?
(c) program it in Python and don't care about speed (or buy a new
workstation...)?

Are there any libraries or other resources that would help? I used the
Scientific Python library for the histogram but it was much slower
than my DIY approach.

I hope my questions are not too much OT. 

Thanks a lot for your help.

Martin


From hzhu at mars.localdomain  Tue Mar  5 03:55:52 2002
From: hzhu at mars.localdomain (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:55:52 GMT
Subject: mult-indexed xrange?
References: <mailman.1015301531.24828.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna89243.2af.hzhu@mars.localdomain>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:06:24 -0600, Jason Orendorff <jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:
>Huaiyu Zhu wrote:
>> I forgot to mention: without generating temporary lists.
>> 
>> >
>> >for (x,y) in [(i,j) for i in range(2) for j in range(3) ]:
>> >    print x,y
>> >0 0 0
>> >0 0 1
>> ...
>> 
>> Is list comprehension lazy, ie. without generating the actual list?  
>
>No, list comprehensions are eager.
>
>You want generators:
>
>from __future__ import generators
>
>def pairs(n, m):
>    for i in xrange(n):
>        for j in xrange(m):
>            yield (i, j)
>
>for (x, y) in pairs(2, 3):
>    print x, y
>
>## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/
>

Well, that was what I started with. :-)

I gave a more general solution, which could be an extension of xrange to
multiple indices.  I was wondering if there is a builtin facility for this.
Looks like there isn't. 

Huaiyu


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 10:06:53 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:06:53 +0000
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <a6trae$f65$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> I have a free software program (http://sf.net/projects/bttotalcontrol/) and
> I am having great difficulty writing an installation script for windows.
> 
> I don't want to use distutils because I am not writing a module - but an
> entire distribution with images, data files, and executable programs. I
> would like to put icons on the desktop and stuff in the start menu as well.
> 
> I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows
> machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a few
> people who actively test for the project at home.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on where I should go? Anyone can help me out
> here?
> 
> Jonathan

This was my rough solution. It may be a reasonable starting point for you.

If you want to test it (it won't work on its own), grab the IPython package 
from http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/ and install it on a Windows 
box (have one of your testers do it) to see how it works.

Let me warn you though that doing the development in linux and the debugging 
in windows will be tricky. IPython was all written in linux, but for writing 
this setup script I had to install PythonWin so I could actually do the 
testing.

Good luck,

f.


"""Use this script to install IPython in Windows platforms. 
 
Wrapper around setup.py which creates appropriate entries in 
the Start Menu. 
 
This is quick and dirty, but seems to work reasonably well.""" 
 
#***************************************************************************** 
#       Copyright (C) 2001 Fernando P?rez. 
# 
#  Distributed under the terms of the GNU Lesser General Public License 
(LGPL) 
# 
#  The full text of the LGPL is available at: 
# 
#                  http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html 
#***************************************************************************** 
 
__author__ = 'Fernando P?rez. <fperez at pizero.colorado.edu>' 
__version__= '0.1.0' 
__license__ = 'LGPL' 
 
import sys,os,shutil 
from win32com.shell import shell 
import pythoncom 
import _winreg as wreg 
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
def make_shortcut(fname,target,args='',start_in='',comment='',icon=None): 
    """Make a Windows shortcut (.lnk) file. 
     
    make_shortcut(fname,target,args='',start_in='',comment='',icon=None) 
     
    Arguments: 
        fname - name of the final shortcut file (include the .lnk) 
        target - what the shortcut will point to 
        args - additional arguments to pass to the target program 
        start_in - directory where the target command will be called 
        comment - for the popup tooltips 
        icon - optional icon file. This must be a tuple of the type  
        (icon_file,index), where index is the index of the icon you want 
        in the file. For single .ico files, index=0, but for icon libraries 
        contained in a single file it can be >0. 
    """ 
 
    shortcut = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance( 
        shell.CLSID_ShellLink, None, 
        pythoncom.CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER, shell.IID_IShellLink 
    ) 
    shortcut.SetPath(target) 
    shortcut.SetArguments(args) 
    shortcut.SetWorkingDirectory(start_in) 
    shortcut.SetDescription(comment) 
    if icon: 
        shortcut.SetIconLocation(*icon) 
    shortcut.QueryInterface(pythoncom.IID_IPersistFile).Save(fname,0) 
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
# 'Main' code 
 
# First run the distutils generic installer 
setup = os.path.join(os.getcwd(),'setup.py') 
sys.argv = [setup,'install'] 
try: 
    execfile(setup) 
except: 
    einfo = map(str,sys.exc_info()[:2]) 
    print '\n\nThere were problems with the installer:',' '.join(einfo) 
    raw_input('Press Enter to exit') 
    sys.exit() 
 
# Now make some windows-only niceties. 
 
# Find where the Start Menu and My Documents are on the filesystem 
key = wreg.OpenKey(wreg.HKEY_CURRENT_USER, 
                   "Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell 
Folders") 
programs_dir = wreg.QueryValueEx(key,'Programs')[0] 
my_documents_dir = wreg.QueryValueEx(key,'Personal')[0] 
key.Close() 
 
# File and directory names 
ip_dir = 'C:\\Program Files\\IPython' 
ip_prog_dir = programs_dir + '\\IPython' 
doc_dir = ip_dir+'\\doc' 
ip_filename = ip_dir+'\\IPython_shell.py' 
pycon_icon = doc_dir+'\\pycon.ico' 
 
if not os.path.isdir(ip_dir): 
    os.mkdir(ip_dir) 
 
# Copy startup script and documentation 
shutil.copy(sys.prefix+'\\Scripts\\ipython',ip_filename) 
if os.path.isdir(doc_dir): 
    shutil.rmtree(doc_dir) 
shutil.copytree('doc',doc_dir) 
 
# make shortcuts for IPython, html and pdf docs. 
print '\n\n\nMaking entries for IPython in Start Menu...', 
 
# Create shortcuts in Programs\IPython: 
if not os.path.isdir(ip_prog_dir): 
    os.mkdir(ip_prog_dir) 
os.chdir(ip_prog_dir) 
 
manual_dir = doc_dir + '\\manual' 
man_htm = manual_dir + '\\manual.html' 
man_pdf = manual_dir + '\\manual.pdf' 
 
make_shortcut('IPython.lnk',sys.executable, '"%s"' % ip_filename, 
              my_documents_dir, 
              'IPython - Enhanced python command line interpreter', 
              (pycon_icon,0)) 
make_shortcut('Manual in HTML format.lnk',man_htm,'','', 
              'IPython Manual - HTML format') 
make_shortcut('Manual in PDF format.lnk',man_pdf,'','', 
              'IPython Manual - PDF format') 
               
print """Done. 
 
I created the directory C:\\Program Files\\IPython. There you will find the 
IPython startup script and manuals. 
 
An IPython menu was also created in your Start Menu, with entries for 
IPython itself and the manual in HTML and PDF formats. 
 
For reading PDF documents you need the freely available Adobe Acrobat 
Reader. If you don't have it, you can download it from: 
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html 
 
Finished with IPython installation. Press Enter to exit this installer.""", 
raw_input() 



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Mar  1 08:27:31 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 15:27:31 +0200
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <kuadtss9j0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763 at news.hananet.net>, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:

| Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that has the 
| equivalent of the unix shell utilities?

yes, mostly. (there might be some missing system calls - but they
are covered quite well).

| I think it would be nice to make things like 'grep' even...

| Here is my wish list. [...]

you could use the existing utilities and save the trouble :)

| If there isn't an effort to make this, or if no one has done anything like 
| this yet, I am willing to volunteer some time to do it. It would be really 
| nice if they ended up being compatible with Windows and Macintosh - give 
| them some powerful tools they didn't even know existed!

you can get the real things for windows with cygwin. macintoshes are
natively unix-based these days.

if you decide to go ahead with it, you could look into
<URL: http://www.perl.com/language/ppt/> for ideas and inspiration.

  -- erno





From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 14 22:06:32 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 03:06:32 GMT
Subject: Python2.2 and expat
References: <pan.2002.03.14.17.14.57.755556.13902@crystalcherry.com> <mailman.1016158225.12672.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrna92lpb.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Trent Mick wrote in comp.lang.python:
> [Colin Fox wrote]
>> Hello, everyone.
>> 
>> I'm trying to build garnome, which requires Python2.2 + Python2.2-xml.
>> I've got Python2.2 built, but for some reason it doesn't seem to build
>> expat. And when I try to "import xml.parsers.expat" I get:
>> 
>> >>> import xml.parsers.expat
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/parsers/expat.py", line 4, in ?
>>     from pyexpat import *
>> ImportError: No module named pyexpat
>> 
>> Where is pyexpat supposed to come from? 
> 
> There is a section on building the pyexpat extension in
> dist\src\PCbuild\readme.txt. Basically you need a separate build of expat in
> the right place so that Python pyexpat build can find and use it.
 
His path didn't look like he's using Windows.

Gerhard, picking nits
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From nospam at [127.0.0.1]  Mon Mar 11 16:49:32 2002
From: nospam at [127.0.0.1] (Chris)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:49:32 +0000
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>
 <7CWi8.104549$aFN.34864@news1.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <tG4lQQEsZSj8EwU7@[127.0.0.1]>

In article <7CWi8.104549$aFN.34864 at news1.bloor.is>, Qiang.JL 
<dragon at china.org> writes
>yeah. i have been following my post. thanks for everyone's input. It 
>helps!
>seems a lot people recommend C over C++, i would keep this in mind and 
>get a go at it. i think i get a list of language to learn and go deeper 
>now : Java, C, Perl, Python, Lisp

I've been following it, too, with great interest.
I reckon I'm going to go for Python and Java.
Java is particularly attractive because you can distribute your programs 
to absolutely anybody in the form of applets.
Not sure about learning Linux though - that seems a bit too much to take 
on!
-- 
Chris


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Mar 20 18:21:26 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:21:26 GMT
Subject: Newspaper infiltration
Message-ID: <WP8m8.14179$Hz2.58844@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

   It appears that some Python force is contaminating the ordinarily
technically challenged mainstream Australian press. First we get an
Interview with Mark, then this Zope article turns up on the second page of
the IT section of the local paper:
http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/news/2002/03/19/FFXF7G6VSYC.html

   Could it be a sleeper from the




From h.baumgartl at quicknet.nl  Wed Mar  6 11:04:04 2002
From: h.baumgartl at quicknet.nl (Henry Baumgartl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:04:04 +0100
Subject: dynamic loading of modules
Message-ID: <000701c1c528$8acfea50$c19949d5@dkn02>

Hello all,

Having recently embarked on my journey into Python land, I would like to
know if there is an elegant solution to the following problem:

I would like to be able to compound variables that will then form the name
of the particular module to be loaded into the active script.

Long lists of -if- and -elif- statements don't really do the trick, as one
still has to hardcode all possible options and defeating the dynamic nature
of the application.

A solution I came up with was to write a new module every time the process
starts, and loading this to get to the dynamically selected sub-modules.
Unfortunately, as the name of the 'new' module needs to be hardcoded for
this scheme to work, only one user can safely use the application at any one
time, which is not good enough.

Any suggestions to resolve my dilemma will be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,
Henry Baumgartl




From ws at mystrobl.de  Sun Mar 17 16:26:21 2002
From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:26:21 +0100
Subject: Windows NT shell + extended characters. Bug or what?
References: <mailman.1016216529.29034.python-list@python.org> <m3vgbxs7e2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <j9699ucaj1rec9v1abg0geskbovu5jdtj3@4ax.com> <m31yej7z9q.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <j31a9u4jd2ec4j4j02ivm7nr4eine0kmj8@4ax.com>

17 Mar 2002 20:46:57 +0100, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis):

>Wolfgang Strobl <ws at mystrobl.de> writes:
>
>> >This is rather unlikely, I doubt the interactive interpreter will ever
>> >be able to properly identify the encoding of the console window. 
>> 
>> What's wrong with GetConsoleOutputCP, besides the restrictions
>> documented in "Q99795 SetConsoleOutputCP Only Effective with Unicode
>> Fonts"? 
>
>There are several problems with that:
>- as you point it, it fails for the raster fonts (for no apparent
>  reason)

Carefull. The problem applies to _SetConsoleOutputCP, the reason being
"SetConsoleOutputCP() is designed to change the mapping of the 256
8-bit character values into the glyph set of a fixed-pitch Unicode
font, rather than loading a separate, non-Unicode font for each call to
SetConsoleOutputCP(). " according to the Knowledge Base entry mentioned
above. 

_Identifying_ the input and output encoding of the console window is no
problem at all.


>- for outputting Unicode, OutputConsoleW is more appropriate, IMO,
>  since it can also output characters not supported in the output
>  code page.

AFAIK there is no function OutputConsoleW.  Do you mean WriteConsoleW?


>- we were talking about input. Admittedly, GetConsoleCP might be of
>  use here

Right.


>- it is tricky to determine reliably that a file descriptor is
>  connected to a terminal.

I wouldn't want the python interpreter become dependent on whether the
stdout file descriptor is connected to a console window  or not.
Either always use the CPs of the console window associated with the
current process, or never.

IMHO, a standard module which allows more control over platform
specific parameters (like the code pages of the console window, if
there is one) would be my prefered solution to this class of problems.

-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From sender at usgcl.org  Sun Mar 10 08:29:12 2002
From: sender at usgcl.org (United States Green Card Lottery Organization)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:29:12 -0800
Subject: Invite: Your American Green Card Application
Message-ID: <UTC200203100330.EAA28798@hera.cwi.nl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20020310/86ee2edf/attachment.html>

From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar 11 12:12:44 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:12:44 -0800
Subject: lambda question
References: <mailman.1015866267.21439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-DF2AB1.09124411032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015866267.21439.python-list at python.org>,
 "Alves, Carlos Alberto - Coelce" <calves at coelce.com.br> wrote:

> first code:
> 
> 	f='x**3+2*x'
> 	list=[0,1,2,0]
> 	map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> 
> second code:
> 
> 	def exe1(f,list):
> 		return map(lambda x:eval(f),list)
> 
> Can someone explain to me why the first code works while second doesn't.

You defined exe1 but forgot to call it?

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Mar  2 01:52:20 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:52:20 -0800
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1014938330.6533.python-list@python.org> <a5orjv$7j0$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <a5psh2$ga8$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-EBDEA3.22522001032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <a5psh2$ga8$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>,
 "Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote:

> There is a pair of ideas that are intuitive, clean, and routinely useful:
>    for i in indici(seqn)
>    for i, item in indexed(seqn)

Isn't this in PEP 212?
Maybe it should be undeferred?
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From jwilhelm at outsourcefinancial.com  Thu Mar 21 10:18:13 2002
From: jwilhelm at outsourcefinancial.com (Joseph Wilhelm)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 08:18:13 -0700
Subject: Python & IRC
In-Reply-To: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <_Wcm8.134736$Nn6.6764300@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <1016723894.26539.2.camel@jwilhelm.ofsloans.com>

On Wed, 2002-03-20 at 21:07, Felix wrote:
> Greetings everyone,
> 
>                                     I'm not sure if you guys here might be
> able ot help me but i have been looking up and down for a irc client that
> alllows me ot script in python. I found one but it doesn't seem that the
> owners of this client are making any type of head way in it's development. I
> know Xchat allows to use python as a scripting language but that is with the
> linux version not windows.
> 
>    If anyone here has experience with irc and creating scripts for a
> particular irc client please your help would be greatly appreciated in
> pointing me in the right direction.

Well, I haven't written any scripts for it myself, but Bersirc v2.0beta
(At dev9 right now, dev10 is slightly delayed) does allow Windows Active
Scripting, which should let you use Python.
http://beta.bersirc.com/

--Joseph Wilhelm





From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 17 13:36:03 2002
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:36:03 GMT
Subject: Gumbie: a GUI Generator for Jython
Message-ID: <3C94E29F.A48FE107@earthlink.net>

Jet lagged, but couldn't resist reading an article in Dr Dobbs Journal
April print magazine I just picked up. Hoping for alternate ways to
create simple GUI apps for the new Sharp Zaurus.

Gumbie: a GUI generator for Jython is an article by Peter Brinkman
starting on page 46 (I haven't even looked for an online version).

Gumbie is an extensible, GPL'ed program that allows for rapid creation
of simple user input-output menu driven GUI's for Java programs using
AWT. The author suggests it could easily be extended to use Swing
widgets, and, since none of the generic classes of Gumbie use Java
classes, it could also be extended to use Tk widgets, or , one presumes,
wxPython widgets or Qt widgets (which might be extra useful for the new
Sharp Zaurus).

I am wondering if anyone else who reads this article has any comments.
Although I have limited time available, I want to eventually convert
some very simple "applets" I have written in Python into nice GUI apps
for the Zaurus (which I don't own yet). Hey, it's a hobby..

I have just received my copy of GUI Programming with Python using the Qt
toolkit by Boudjewin Rempt, but the copy of Black Adder I ordered online
two weeks ago hasn't shown up yet. (sigh) One option for the Zaurus is
to use Qtopia to run a GUI created by Back Adder. Another option would
be to convert my Python applets to Jython (it worked for one already,
with some difficulty) but I need a way to create a simple gui front end
for the jython applets. Maybe this Gumbie will work??? I don't want the
complexity of using Java's native Swing etc. (but by the time I'm
finished, I may wish I had just learned to do it the 
"hard way" with pure java :_))).

I think there must be lots of "non programmers" who want to find an easy
way to convert simple command line Python scripts into simple GUI
input-output programs. Python makes writing simple command line scripts
easy enough for part time duffers; but how to create the gui??? I
haven't' checked out easy gui yet, but with so many options, even
checking them all out is a time consuming job ;-)) > 
Python Card seems to be aimed at much more complex stuff than the simple
input-output nice -looking gui's I need for my command line programs. A
solution for this might interest an awful lot of duffers...

Anyway, Gumbie looks like it is easily extensible in many ways. I
imagine it could also be easily converted to a pure Python program,
rather than Jython, and then easily extended to other widget  toolkits;
maybe even extended to work on the Zaurus then? 

Or maybe EasyGUI is a better starting point? If I take a year or so, I
might even be able to extend Gumbie myself. If no one does, maybe I
will. But someone more able might do it in a day or two; I could help 
;-)))

Anyone else like Gumbie???

P.S. my first trip to the bookstore upon returning home form my travels
also yielded the february issue of Linux Format with anice series of
articles on the Sharp Zaurus 5000D (developer version) and the upcoming
5500 commercial release Zaurus running embeded linux with embedded Qt
and Jeode (Java version). Anyone seen the developer version and care to
comment????

Ron Stephens


From albgrig at tiscalinet.it  Sat Mar  2 18:44:50 2002
From: albgrig at tiscalinet.it (Alberto Griggio)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:44:50 +0100
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical   computation?
References: <mailman.1015093025.26217.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5ro4e$a31$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

some other examples which may be useful...

Mandrake 8.1, GCC 3.0.2, libc 2.2.4

Python 2.2 (#3, Jan 28 2002, 11:45:43) 
[GCC 3.0.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
0.0
>>> 

but ...

#include <stdio.h>
#include <math.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <string.h>

int main(void)
{
    double d;
    errno = 0;
    d = pow(1e-200, 2);
    if(!errno) printf("OK: %f\n", d);
    else printf("Error: %d, %s\n", errno, strerror(errno));
    return errno;
}

prints: Error: 34, Numerical result out of range

On slackware 8.0, GCC 2.95.3, libc 2.2.3, both the python and the C
code fail.

Finally, if you change pow to powf in the C code above, it gives no 
error.

Hope someone can understand what's happening...

Bye,
Alberto Griggio


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Mar 25 23:05:25 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:05:25 -0600
Subject: Indentation problem
In-Reply-To: <7isn6o9fld.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
        <7isn6o9fld.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <15519.62341.138159.906794@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Isaac> I'd rather suggest to have a Python-specific indentation command
    Isaac> in Emacs that will "reindent a region in a way that fits the
    Isaac> current indentation style and fit in the current context, but
    Isaac> retain the original meaning".  This really shouldn't be that
    Isaac> difficult.  Anyone will try his elisp skills?

Check out python-mode:

    http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/

It already has key bindings C-c > and C-c < which indent or dedent the
selected region by the indentation delta.  Works like a charm.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From FredandFey at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 22:00:14 2002
From: FredandFey at hotmail.com (Conchos)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:00:14 -0700
Subject: Compile.py
References: <3c9570f8_1@corp-goliath.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <3c96a95e_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>

Sheesh, one little syntax error and ya blow these guys out of the water!

I believe what you're looking for is compile.py ( lower case 'c' ) and
it can be found
at http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ppw32/  under chapter 22.

hth,
Beware the waiting room.

"San" <San at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c9570f8_1 at corp-goliath.newsgroups.com...
> Hello,
>
> Very new to Python.  "Programming on Win32" mentions David Asher's
> Compile.py.
> I've found a Compile.py in the sources \Tools\compiler folder.  This
> script seems to be expecting arguments, and in fact I drop into the
"no
> files to compile" case, presumably from getopt.
>
> This contrasts "Win32"'s example, where no arguments are used (
thought
> a setup.in and source files in the current directory are assumed).  Am
I
> using the right script, or have I totally missed something?
>
> Thanks,
> M.E.I.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
______
> Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION =
http://www.binaries.net




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 03:29:06 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:29:06 +0000
Subject: import gadfly causes 500 Server Error -- anyone know how to fix?
References: <3C8AFB43.275714BB@erols.com>
Message-ID: <3lL8uKASlxi8Ewsz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <3C8AFB43.275714BB at erols.com>, Jerry Gitomer
<jgitomer at erols.com> writes
.....
>
>500 Server Error
>
>The server encountered an internal error and could not complete
>your request. 
.....
you should probably have a general mechanism at the highest level to
trap any uncaught errors.

Eg in your top level script you should have something that prints out
the traceback.

typically

try:
        print getresult()
except:
        print "content-type: text/html"
        print
        print "<html><head><title></title></head><body>"
        print "<h1>An Error Occurred.</h1>"
        print "<pre>"
        import traceback
        traceback.print_exc()
        print "</pre>"
        print "</body></html>"

any error in the whole process wil result in a traceback being produced.
In this case I suspect that gadfly is not importable in the runing
context. To discover why you can import sys and print out sys.path etc
in the sectuon after the print "<pre>" above.
-- 
Robin Becker


From sagwy at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 16:55:06 2002
From: sagwy at earthlink.net (mo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:55:06 -0700
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2.1c1
References: <mailman.1016488083.29655.clpa-moderators@python.org> <uzo0wwfw8.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <032b01c1d447$d7503910$a689ea43@gatesway>

Mo

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.org> writes:
>
> > Depending on how many problems are found in this release, 2.2.1
> > final or a second release candidate will follow next week.
>
> It will be 2.2.1c2 and it will be released in about 22 hours time.

This is like pacing outside a delivery room.  Thank you for this
update.   More importantly, thanks to all of you "Doctors" laboring on
our behalf.

Mo




From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sun Mar 10 18:01:51 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 01:01:51 +0200
Subject: How "expensive" are Exceptions?
Message-ID: <3c8bf3ef@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Hi, given the fact that excpetion handling can be very
expensive in languages like C++ - is python similar in
this aspect?

For instance, given somefunc() which sometimes (often)
returns a tuple and sometimes (rare) an integer - which version
would be to prefer?

Which version would be to prefer if the return types
are distributed evenly?

a)

try:
    a, b = somefunc()
except:
    return None
...
b)

selection = somefunc()
if len( selection ) != 2:
    return None
else:
    model, iter = selection
...

Yours,

Mickey.



From Kevin.Smith at sas.com  Fri Mar  1 09:31:34 2002
From: Kevin.Smith at sas.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 14:31:34 GMT
Subject: Swapping out sys.stdout globally
Message-ID: <20020301093135467-0500@braeburn.na.sas.com>

I am working on a command-line utility written in Python which daemonizes
itself.  In the process of daemonizing, sys.stdout and sys.stderr are
redirected to now file-like objects as follows:

sys.stdout = NewFile()
sys.stderr = NewFile()

However, I have some logging routines in a separate package that already
have their own references to sys.stdout and sys.stderr which are
unaffected by this.  Is there a way to chonge where sys.stdout and
sys.stderr print their output to and have this change affect all existing
references?

-- 
Kevin SmithKevin.Smith at sas.com


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Mar 18 08:29:29 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 15:29:29 +0200
Subject: select.select() on Regular Files?
References: <a65pkr$235o$1@news.idiom.com> <dCuh8.13414$N7.3188706@ruti.visi.com> <a678ud$30dv$1@news.idiom.com> <a67d2n$2kp$1@verence.demon.co.uk> <a73boo$fa$2@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <kug02yt35y.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <a73boo$fa$2 at news.idiom.com>, jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim
Dennis) writes:

|  I guess the newer versions of FreeBSD are ahead of Linux in this
|  category.  Hopefully Ben LaHaise' AIO work will get merged in soon
|  and in a few years we can relegate "while (1) { nanosleep(); stat(); }"
|  to the history books.
 
for linux (and irix), have a look in
<URL: http://oss.sgi.com/projects/fam/faq.html>.

  -- erno


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 09:44:42 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:44:42 +0000
Subject: Python UK - April 4th and 5th
References: <1017148758.18693.0.nnrp-01.c1c3e11b@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnaa12aq.h3n.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:19:13 -0000, Paul Brian <paul1brian at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>This is another gentle reminder for those Python enthusiasts in the UK that
>the
>2nd Python UK Conference will take place on April the 4th and 5th near
>Stratford upon Avon.
>
>The two day conference is packed full of talks on cutting edge applications
>of Python, with time to meet, socialise and even discuss code, life and love
>with fellow Pythonistas. You even get access to the full ACCU conference,
>attended by luminaries such as Bjarne Stroustrup.
>
>You can register online at www.accuconference.co.uk , and further details
>are available there too.  Please note that Python attendees should pay the
>daily rate for the conference (?130 /day for ACCU members, ?155 else) for
>the one or two days they choose to attend.

Perhaps I'm being a little obtuse here, but why would I want to pay
260 quid to talk about Python? I can talk about it here for 
nothing.

I guess this is something intended to be funded by the delegates' 
employers.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From jim at publishingresources.com  Fri Mar 22 15:54:48 2002
From: jim at publishingresources.com (Jim Abrams)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:54:48 -0000
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <Tjtj8.48802$3O2.18198075@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91D9A1E0F2247jimpublishingresourc@209.249.90.101>

"Rob Nikander" <nikander at nc.rr.com> wrote in news:Tjtj8.48802$3O2.18198075
@typhoon.southeast.rr.com:

> Are there any projects out there that allow you to embed python in HTML
> like PHP?  I like the PHP-style of embedding the bits of program in HTML,
> but I'd like to use python...
> Something like:
> 
> <html>
> <?python
>      print "<ul>"
>      for reptile in ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]:
>           print "<li> %s </li>" % reptile
>      print "</ul>"
> ?>
> </html>


While mentioning M$ is this thread might get me lynched I still feel the 
need to mention (esp since I'm forced to live in a M$ shop) Python in ASP. 
I find it very attractive to be able to do 

<%
print >> _out, "<ul>"
for reptile in ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]:
    	print >> _out, "<li> %s </li>" % reptile
print >> _out, "</ul>"
%>

or even 

<%
import HTMLgen
print >> _out, UL(["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"])
%>

adding another jelly bean to the shring to MH ly 'yrs 

-Jim



From acockburn at aol.com  Thu Mar 28 20:08:12 2002
From: acockburn at aol.com (Alistair Cockburn)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 17:08:12 -0800
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 26)
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f0eae55.0203281708.7bbea130@posting.google.com>

Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list at python.org>...

> I think poetry and code are actually very similar. Some day I may
> write a paper on that thesis, but I'm still living the experience
> today....

Try "Software Development as Community Poetry Writing",
http://members.aol.com/acockburn/papers/swaspoem/swpo.htm
That's the best I did along that track...

(some systems programmers told me it described their life accurately)

Alistair


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Mar 12 21:26:06 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:26:06 GMT
Subject: Redirecting output in Windows NT
References: <96e9dee5.0203120044.33a1e19c@posting.google.com> <3C8DC473.2070809@skippinet.com.au> <a6lenv$i2s$0@216.39.172.122> <5cf809e9.0203121718.6d999426@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u8z8xfblk.fsf@online.no>

peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm) writes:

> > >It is a bug in the NT command prompt.  Works OK in Win2k.  I
> believe
> 
> > >there is a FAQ on it too.
> > >
> You state that *output* redirection works OK in Win2k. I could verify
> that, but unfortunately it's not true for the redirection of *input*.
> If I want to redirect input, I still have to use the form
> 
>     python myprog.py <inputfile
> 
> instead of the simpler
> 
>     myprog <inputfile

Yes, this is a pain in the ass to say the least. Especially since
myprog.py has to be in the current directory(or be fully specified) in
the first version, while it just has to be situated in the os path in
the second.

Has anyone pointers to any information regarding this problem, which
is an OS problem as far as I can see. It leads to Python programs not
being quite real executables under the win2k and probably other win32
os'es, which is a shame since Python is such an intensely practical
tool.

I've tried some Google searches for this problem, but have not come up
with anything. How are other scripting languages doing?

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From cfelling at iae.nl  Fri Mar  1 15:10:20 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 21:10:20 +0100
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <a5last$23p$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <87u1s0eth5.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <a5on7c$6gd$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

---lots snipped---

Thanks for your well balanced commands, they sure refined my thinking
on the subject.

> My _very_ personal opinion is that identifiers can be run through an
> online dictionary, and I'm fortunate to be pretty good at languages,
> so that's fun.  Nor do I do programming for a living, I can afford to
> concentrate on "fun."

Yep fun, but very hard as single word translation is amongs the
hardest translation problems.  Wouldn't it be better if we had a kind
of inter-lingua-meaning-representation and each and every identifier
linked to one by the author of the code himself?  The `translation'
process could then be automated, and everyone could read the source in
her/his own language. (I know, in practice next to impossible to
achieve such a inter-lingua complete with all the mappings to all the
languages out there, but he I'm porting an old project I was involved
in that tried this route for general texts, so why not dream on:)

> My opinion as a teacher is that I'd really like to be able to teach
> programming to my freshmen with a language that uses Japanese
> identifiers (including reserved words) and syntax (Japanese is a
> reverse Polish language).

We used to make fun of the french who had their own version of Algol,
but growing older, wiser(?) and more experienced and finally having
kids of my own that want to program I've come to appreciate this point
more and more.  And now with the world getting smaller and smaller
thanks to internet, I tent to think it's a problem we should tackle.

...
> A correct comment in an illegible character set is harmless, although
> perhaps frustrating; an incorrect one that you can read is dangerous.

very true

> So I'd have to say that except for the very worst cases, there are
> benefits to having code in English, or near-English, vocabulary.  But
> comments should be written in a language you can use for teaching.

Well, atleast a language you are reasonably well versed in as to prevent
those `incorrect' comments.

-- 
groetjes, carel


From junkster at rochester.rr.com  Sun Mar 10 10:23:50 2002
From: junkster at rochester.rr.com (Benjamin Schollnick)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:23:50 GMT
Subject: Walk Directories via Caching (& Dup file detection)
Message-ID: <junkster-0FAC82.10270210032002@typhoon1-1.nyroc.rr.com>

A little while ago, some folks were posting some caching routines for
dirwalk.....

Here's something that I cooked up a while ago....

Now, I've added just recently full & partial MD5 hashing, and I'm slowly
adding duplicate file checking...

It seems to work fine, but it definetly could use some optimizations
 & speed ups...

Anyone have any input?  Is there some faster method I could use, 
that I've missed?

The main idea is that the walk tree is built once, and the class just
walks through the list (in memory), instead of walking through the
hard drive....

(This was written rather quickly when I realized that searching for 
hundred's of files, through dirwalk was too slow, because for each file, 
it would have to go through the hard drive each time.)

There are two major data structures:

      self.index_directory_names  = []
      self.index_directory_files  = []

They are "logically" linked.  The files in index_directory_files[x] are
in index_directory_names[x], and vice versa.

I've just recently added the MD5 code, for duplicate detection, which 
is really where I'm looking for the majority of any optimization....
It's *FAST*, or at least takes a reasonable amount of time with 45,000
files....  (I think it takes about 30-45 minutes for that...?  I haven't
timed it)

         - Benjamin

----------------------------------
#from bas_common import *  # True / false syn's for boolean expressions
import dircache
import sys
import os
import string
import shutil
import time
import md5

#mac_mode = macintosh
mac_mode = 0 # code stored in bas_common

if mac_mode:
   import findertools
   import findertools
   import macfs
   import macostools
   

def full_md5_digest(filename, block=(8*1024) ):
   """Return 16 byte MD5 digest of entire given file.
   """
   f = open(filename, 'rb')
   data = f.read(block)
   D = md5.new()
   while data:
      D.update(data)
      data = f.read(block)
   f.close()
   digest = D.digest()
   return digest

def short_md5_digest(filename, block=(8*1024) ):
   """Return 16 byte MD5 digest of given file.
   """
   f = open(filename, 'rb')
   data = f.read(block)
   D = md5.new()
   D.update(data)
   f.close()
   digest = D.digest()
   return digest


class   directory_walk:

   def __init__ ( self ):
      self.index_directory_names  = []
      self.index_directory_files  = []
      self.use_md5            = 1
      self.files_to_skip   = ["FILE_ID.DIZ", "README.TXT", 
                        "READ.ME", "README", "ID.DOC", 
                        ".DS_STORE",               # Do Not Remove, Mac OS X File
                        "ICON",                    # Do Not Remove, Mac OS File
                        "ICON_"                    # Do Not Remove, Mac OS File
                        ]
      self.upper_case              = None

   def __list_files ( self, arg, dirname, names ):
      if self.upper_case:
         self.index_directory_names.append ( string.upper( string.strip(dirname) ) )
         for j in range(0, len(names)):
            names[j] = names[j].upper()
      else:
         self.index_directory_names.append ( string.strip(dirname) )
         
      self.index_directory_files.append ( names )

        
   def build_search_tree ( self, base_directory_name):
      self.index_directory_names = []
      self.index_directory_files = []
      os.path.walk ( base_directory_name, self.__list_files, None)

   def   use_upper_case ( self ):
      self.upper_case      = 1

   def single_file_exist (self, filename):
      if self.upper_case:
         filename = string.upper(filename)
      
      listing_size = len(self.index_directory_files)
      for x in range(0, listing_size):
         try:
            junk = self.index_directory_files[x].index(filename)
            return (1, string.strip(self.index_directory_names[x] ) )
         except:
            pass

      return (None, None)
            
   def   return_duplicates_filenames ( self ):
      duplicate_files = []
      master_list    = []
      
      print "# of directories : ", len(self.index_directory_names)
      for x in range(0, len(self.index_directory_names)):
         print ".",
         for filename in self.index_directory_files[x]:
            
            filename       = string.strip(string.upper(filename))
            
            if not(filename in self.files_to_skip):
               if os.path.isfile (os.path.join(self.index_directory_names[x], filename)):
                     
                  master_list.append (filename)
                  if master_list.count(filename) >= 2:
                     if duplicate_files.count(filename) == 0:
                        duplicate_files.append (filename)
      print
      return duplicate_files


   def   return_all_directories_from_file ( self, filename):
      file_directories = []

      for x in range(0, len(self.index_directory_names)):
         if self.index_directory_files[x].count(filename) >= 1:
            file_directories.append ( self.index_directory_names[x])
      return file_directories 

   def   filter_via_md5 ( self, dup_file_list, md5_filter ):
      duplicate_files = []
      master_list    = []

      for filename in dup_file_list:
         file_locations = self.return_all_directories_from_file (filename)
         
         for location in file_locations:
            duplicate_files.append ( (filename, location, md5_filter (os.path.join(location, 
filename)) ) )
            
      return duplicate_files

                     
fss, ok = macfs.GetDirectory('Duplicate Search Directory:')
if not ok:
   sys.exit(0)
else:
   dup_directory = fss.as_pathname()
      
dir_find = directory_walk()
dir_find.use_upper_case()
print "Search Tree"
dir_find.build_search_tree ( dup_directory )
print "End Search Tree"
output_file = open("results.txt", "w")

print "Begin"
dup_files =  dir_find.return_duplicates_filenames ()
md5_output = dir_find.filter_via_md5 ( dup_files, short_md5_digest )

length_of_md5_output = len(md5_output)

optimized_md5 = []
for scan in range(0, length_of_md5_output):
   optimized_md5.append (md5_output[scan][2])
   
print "Number of Files to Validate: ", length_of_md5_output
for counter in range(0, length_of_md5_output):
   if optimized_md5.count ( md5_output[counter][2]) >= 2:
      for scan in range(counter, length_of_md5_output):
         if (md5_output[scan][2] == md5_output[counter][2]) and scan<>counter:
            output_file.writelines ( "\r", "-"*40)
            output_file.writelines ( "\rFile: %s" % md5_output[counter][0] )
            output_file.writelines ( "\r\tLocation : %s " % md5_output[scan][1] )
            print "\r", "-"*40
            print "\rFile: %s" % md5_output[counter][0]
            print "\r\tLocation : %s " % md5_output[scan][1]
      while optimized_md5.count ( md5_output[counter][2]):
         try:
            optimized_md5.remove( md5_output[counter][2])
         except:
            pass
      print "\r\tLocation : %s " % md5_output[counter][1]
      output_file.writelines ( "\r\tLocation : %s " % md5_output[counter][1] )
            
      
output_file.close()
print "End"
#for filename in dup_files:
#  print "-"*40,"\n"
#  output_file.writelines ("-"*40,"\r")
#  print filename
#  output_file.writelines (filename, "\r")
#  dup_directories = dir_find.return_all_directories_from_file ( filename )
#  for dir in dup_directories:
#     print "\t%s" % dir
#     output_file.writelines ("\t%s\r" % dir)
#  print "-"*40,"\n"
#  output_file.writelines ("-"*40,"\r")

sys.exit(5)


From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sat Mar 30 11:08:48 2002
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:08:48 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net><008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com><200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net><014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <yu99663exd1r.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <01ae01c1d805$83b4e0f0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Koenig" <ark at research.att.com>

> David>     void f(int const&);
> David>     f(false); // error!
>
> For the sake of nitpicking correctness, I cannot help but point out
> that there is nothing wrong with the call of f(false) above unless you
> drop the "const" from f's parameter type.

Yeah, I realized that after posting it, and hoped nobody would notice.

void f(int const*);
bool x = false;
f(&x); // error!


thanks-for-nothing-ly y'rs,
dave




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Mar  6 23:24:08 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:24:08 -0500
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <15494.34706.724985.628479@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEAEOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Skip Montanaro]
> There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to further
> enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if more of this
> energy was directed at the overall environment (library, support tools,
> installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.

Let's not discount the short run either <wink>.  Guido opined today that he
wants 2.3 to be a relatively modest "consolidation" release.  As a result, I
don't expect he's going to approve "new feature" PEPs for 2.3 that aim at
the core language proper.

to-everything-there-is-a-season-and-a-time-for-every-purpose-under-
    python-ly y'rs  - tim




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Mar  1 00:08:35 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:08:35 +1300
Subject: list vs. dict
References: <3C7CF0EE.3010009@vscht.cz> <3C7CFAF8.1080108@mxm.dk> <Xgaf8.10287$pC1.1854469@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3C7E8D47.21BE30B3@ccvcorp.com> <eppstein-3B013E.13102528022002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3C7F0CD3.E70832BB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> It would be good if dict.has_key(x,y)
> worked without having to double the parentheses

I don't have a recent enough Python at my fingertips
to check, but I think

  if (x,y) in dict

does the same thing nowadays.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From quinn at vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Mar 13 04:47:21 2002
From: quinn at vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 09:47:21 GMT
Subject: structseq and keywords?
Message-ID: <slrna8u819.130.quinn@vomit.ugcs.caltech.edu>

Is structseq supposed to take keyword args?  From the source I assume it was
meant to, but they're unused.

I suppose they'd interact poorly with sequence args, but I'd expect them to be
mutually exclusive:

ss(attr=bar) #-> attr set to bar, rest set to None
ss(a, b, c) #-> initialize with (a, b, c)


It also seems odd that structseq expects a single sequence rather than a
variable number of args.

I've been meaning to give python access to structseqs, since I think it would
be useful for python as well as C code.


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Mar  4 06:51:47 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 03:51:47 -0800
Subject: what is happening at __init__
References: <3C8358C0.81D97AD8@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <a5vngu$a8lt7$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Benjamin Tai"
[snip]
> class A:
>     x = 100
>
> class B(A):
>
>     def __init__(self):
>         #  Q1
>         print 'inside constructor self is ', self
>         self = 300

Self is a container.  Assign to its attributes, ie, self.x = 300.
You've just created a new thing called self as a local variable within
__init__.

>         # Q2
>         print 'inside constructor self is ', self

Again, as a local variable this is 300.  Make the change above then try
printing self.x instead.

>         # Q3
>         return None

No need to do this.  All functions return None when not explicity
returning something else.

>
> b = 200

This is immediately changed with the following statement, and has no
effect.

> b = B()
> print 'after constructor instance b is ', b
> # Q4
> print 'instance b contains attribute x, valued ', b.x

B has not defined an x attribute, so this comes from A.

Work through the appropriate tutorial sections again.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 17:46:00 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:46:00 +0000
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaacg18.2gs.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:38:00 -0500, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>
>Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
>an int is int(b).

Will this work on old versions of python? I've just checked that it 
works on 2.0, but what about 1.5.1 or 1.6?

I'd guess (b*1) would work on everything, however.


-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Mar 14 10:18:00 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:18:00 +0100
Subject: Python-DB2 module and DB2 Connect
References: <3C90A125.4020208@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <3C90BF28.8080301@stroeder.com>

Michael Str?der wrote:
> 
> Anyone here which had success with using DB2-Python-0.991 (see 
> ftp://people.linuxkorea.co.kr/pub/DB2/) build against DB2 Connect?

Seems to work. (DB2 Connect under Linux against DB2 OS/390 6.x)

Ciao, Michael.



From orangefree89 at localhost.localdomain  Sat Mar 16 07:30:54 2002
From: orangefree89 at localhost.localdomain (orangefree89)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:30:54 GMT
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir> <oa5k8.27154$lM.25760@news2.bloor.is> <a6r6tq$47e$1@usenet.otenet.gr> <fmUpYHBB+jk8EwZf@[127.0.0.1]>
Message-ID: <slrna9559u.g52.orangefree89@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:37:53 +0000, Chris <nospam@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

> Thank you.
> I downloaded number 4.
> However, it is in a strange form (Tex) for a windows user.
> Is it any use to me in that form?
> And can it be obtained in any other form?
> (It does look good.)

Yassas.  I'm pretty sure it is also available in pdf.  I found the
book very useful (I'm not a programmer by training).


From susan at mars.provis.com  Wed Mar 27 13:00:48 2002
From: susan at mars.provis.com (Susan Williams)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:00:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Linux-related help
Message-ID: <200203271800.g2RI0m323782@mars.provis.com>

Howdy, y'all,

[No one will remember me, but I'm back after a long
absense because--you guessed it--I have a problem and
I want some help...]

We are attempting to port from Solaris to Linux, and
I'm having some unpleasant malloc/free problems at
exit (sys.exit).  We have running software based
currently on 1.5.2.  We're compiling on Linux with gcc
3.0.3 (on Solaris we were using Sun's compiler, not
gcc, I think).

Unfortunately I have a 3rd party module I'm linking with 
python that is rather ancient.  We first got it when using
python 1.3, we "ported" it to 1.5.2, and I can't quite
pin down whether it is the root of the problem or not,
perhaps it is doing something not quite kosher.
(The idea of trying to get it running with 2.1 gives
me the willies, but that is not really today's issue.)

Anyone out there using Linux especially with 1.5.2
is this ringing any bells?  On exit, python is clearing
the list of modules, each module is clearing dictionary
entries by setting them to None, and it is the decref
that is blowing up.  It is not always in the same place,
but it is always in the code that is setting a dictionary
value to None and deleting whatever was there before.

Any ideas welcome.  I'm not too well versed on either the
innards of python or the proper coding for module
extensions.

thanks...
sue williams




From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Sun Mar 31 20:34:02 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 03:34:02 +0200
Subject: Python/Linux
In-Reply-To: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <0UMp8.42204$1f1.3348597@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20020401013402.GA333@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Robert Oschler <Oschler at earthlink.net> [2002-03-31 18:24 -0500]:
> [...] I'd like to know which Web site development tool you like the best,

As for a Python web application framework, I like WebWare. Zope is also cool,
especially if you can reuse an existing "product".

> because I'm going to assume that you're using one that integrates well with
> Python.

So you're speaking of a HTML editor or what?

> Bear in mind that I'm one of those who like to be spoiled by a nice WYSIWIG
                                                                      ^^^^^^^

There is no such thing as WYSIWYG - and as a long-time (Windows) developer you
sure know ;-) It's really WYSIWYMGITEUHETSC (what you see is what you might get
if the end-user has exactly the same configuration). After all, HTML is a
*markup* language, not a page layout system. But of course, you can tell the
browser what you think is a good layout by means of CSS.

> IDE if possible.

If you're into WYSIWYMG, I prefer Mozilla's Composer for that. I use it for
prototyping pages. Editing HTML I do with a real editor [tm]. Mine is vim.

> Here's is the choice list I've built up after surfing much, post much, and
> reading much replies:
> Quanta
> Bluefish
> PHP (Will I need to learn this or any other scripting lang if I'm using
> Python for all my custom site stuff?)

No, you can do can do everything in Python. Using a framework like
Webware/Quixote/Albatross/... makes this even easier. Apart from that, I'm no
fan of code-in-html style programming, though all the frameworks support it in
one way or the other.

> Open Office's HTML tool
> Delph/Kylix with perhaps kbmWABD (I'm Delphi prog'er too)
> IBM's WebSphere home page builder (yes I know it cost a little)

That, and Mozilla seem to be your only options for Linux-native WYSIWYMG.

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 6.3 ?C      Wind: 0.5 m/s



From ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu  Wed Mar 13 13:54:50 2002
From: ocscwar at h-after-ocsc.mit.edu (Omri Schwarz)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 13:54:50 -0500
Subject: Newbie regex question.
Message-ID: <octeliocn7p.fsf@nerd-xing.mit.edu>

I have a regex = re.compile('yadda (widget1) (widget2) yadda')
and want to search a string I know to have multiple 
instances of this regex. I'm a tad confused by
the RE Howto, so I'd like to ask, how do I properly 
get a for loop to access the widget1 and widget2 
strings of each instance?

for instance in regex.search(string).groups() 
seems to be the right thing, but isn't working.



-- 
Omri Schwarz --- ocscwar at mit.edu ('h' before war) 
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering: "Noise is principally
due to the presence of the patient." -- R.F. Farr



From gry at ll.mit.edu  Mon Mar 11 13:56:20 2002
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (george young)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:56:20 -0500
Subject: 2.2 install fails with "SyntaxError: invalid token" compiling many library files
Message-ID: <20020311135620.6caa78e5.gry@ll.mit.edu>

Python 2.2, SuSE Linux 7.3 [2.4.10]
When running(as root) make install of Python 2.2, I get many (550 !) errors like:

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/Bastion.py", line 1
    "
    ^
  SyntaxError: invalid token

in compile_all.py.  In fact a manual:
  ./python
  Python 2.2 (#5, Mar 11 2002, 13:03:58) 
  [GCC 3.0.4] on linux2
  >>> import py_compile
  >>> py_compile.compile('/usr/local/lib/python2.2/Bastion.py')
gets the same error.

If I edit the Bastion.py file and put a blank line at the front, it compiles fine.
What gives?
.................................................
Also at the end of the install, it crashes with:
running build
running build_ext
skipping 'regex' extension (up-to-date)
skipping 'pcre' extension (up-to-date)
skipping '_hotshot' extension (up-to-date)
skipping 'strop' extension (up-to-date)
WARNING: removing "strop" since importing it failed
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./setup.py", line 793, in ?
    main()
  File "./setup.py", line 787, in main
    scripts = ['Tools/scripts/pydoc']
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/core.py", line 138, in setup
    dist.run_commands()
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/dist.py", line 893, in run_commands
    self.run_command(cmd)
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/dist.py", line 913, in run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/command/build.py", line 107, in run
    self.run_command(cmd_name)
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/cmd.py", line 330, in run_command
    self.distribution.run_command(command)
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/dist.py", line 913, in run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 256, in run
    self.build_extensions()
  File "./setup.py", line 147, in build_extensions
    build_ext.build_extensions(self)
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 383, in build_extensions
    self.build_extension(ext)
  File "./setup.py", line 179, in build_extension
    for filename in self._built_objects:
  File "/home/geoyou/Python-2.2/Lib/distutils/cmd.py", line 107, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, attr
AttributeError: _built_objects
make: *** [sharedmods] Error 1

What gives?

-- George
-- 
 I cannot think why the whole bed of the ocean is
 not one solid mass of oysters, so prolific they seem. Ah,
 I am wandering! Strange how the brain controls the brain!
	-- Sherlock Holmes in "The Dying Detective"


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar  6 17:28:39 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:28:39 -0600
Subject: Need feedback - What are the elements of a good hosting service?
Message-ID: <15494.38935.365327.383880@beluga.mojam.com>

Yesterday afternoon I posted a note soliciting input on what people feel the
main issues are related to web hosting services, at least vis a vis Python.
As I indicated, I think the secondary issues may be more important than the
more obvious "primary" issues.  Let me expand on that a bit.  My goal is to
create a hosting page for the python.org website that will be useful to
people looking for a Python-friendly web hosting service.  Simply listing
all hosting services that provide a Python interpreter probably won't be too
useful.

Here are what seem to me to be the so-called "primary" questions to ask:

    * Is Python available?  What version(s)?

    * Can I install a private version of Python?

    * Can I write my own CGI scripts?

    * How do I set up my website?

    * How many system resources can I use (disk space, bandwidth, email
      messages, whatever)?

    * How much does it cost?

Most of these questions are readily answered.  In fact, except for the last
two, I can probably answer them pretty accurately for any given hosting
service: yes; 1.5.2 & 2.1; yes, for shell accounts; yes; FTP, Front Page or
ssh/scp, depending on the OS and web server running.

I've developed and/or maintained two websites for Mojam for several years
now.  As such, I've been in pretty much full control of the environment.
One of the server machines I run is keeping my legs warm as I type this.
Over the years, I'd taken lots of stuff for granted:

    * root access

    * easily set up mailing lists

    * start/stop the web server itself and other related software (database
      servers, sendmail, etc)

    * set up long-running processes for any of a number of reasons
      (monitoring, background file processing, etc)

    * browse Apache access/error logs and configuration files (and modify as
      necessary)

I recently signed up with a hosting service to work on my own corporate
website and to experiment with Webware.  While they are a reputable company
and I'm happy so far with the answers to the primary questions, some of the
secondary issues have caused me more trouble than I had anticipated.  Here
are the stumbling blocks I've run into:

    * Although they made it easy to view my server's access log, I couldn't
      tell how to view the error log (that's where the Python traceback
      winds up with you muff something).  I asked.  Turned out there is an
      undocumented command available to execute to view your recent error
      log contents.  Because it's a shell-based service, the machine is
      pretty tightly locked up, so browsing to see what's available is
      pretty much out of the question.  (I can't "ls /usr/local/bin", for
      example.)

    * Though their Acceptable Use Policy said they'd consider long-running
      programs on a case-by-case basis, when I asked about a specific case
      (running Webware/WebKit's AppServer), I got an immediate "no".  Even
      though I explained that allowing me to run AppServer would actually
      reduce CPU resource usage by avoiding startup/shutdown overhead, I
      have yet to resolve this issue with them.  (They can boot me for
      violation of their AUP.  What recourse do I have if they violate it?
      ;-)

    * Even though this hosting company supports Python (1.5.2 and 2.1 are
      installed), and I know they use it heavily in their back office, it's
      clear their front-line support staff aren't well-versed in Python
      usage.  When I approached them about one problem I was having with a
      CGI script, they ran it at the shell prompt without setting the proper
      environment variables (like REQUEST_METHOD), saw the traceback and
      concluded it was broken.

    * My almost idle webserver was getting lots of clear breakin attempts -
      accesses to paths like /scripts/..%255c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe.  I
      reported this to them and suggested it would be not much more
      difficult for them to block and report such malicious accesses for
      their entire suite of servers than for me to block on an IP-by-IP
      basis.  After several go-rounds I finally got a note from one of their
      sysadmins indicating they would block on the machine my virtual server
      resides on.  No word on actually reporting the bad guys.

As you can see, these startup issues have very little to do with Python.
They do lead me to a set of secondary questions, however:

    * What facilities or commands are available over and above the usual
      Unix or Windows stuff?  Corollaries: What non-standard Python
      libraries are installed? PIL? Zope? MySQLdb? How up-to-date are they?
      How complete is their documentation?

    * What about long-running programs?  Really?

    * How well do front-line support staff understand basic Python issues?

    * How well do they operate as responsible net citizens?  Do they go
      after the bad guys or is that your problem?

I'm not sure those questions form a complete "basis set" of questions whose
answers will help people make intelligent decisions about a hosting service,
but had I known to ask them ahead of time, I would have had a somewhat
easier introduction to the realm of web hosting.

How do other peoples' experiences jive with mine?  What do you feel it
important to ask going into the process over and above what I've referred to
as the "primary questions"?  Do you agree that those that seem important to
me are actually of general importance?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar  8 16:38:37 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:38:37 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <a6b91d$oau$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEMEOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Donn Cave]
> I have proposed before that those of us who are into having
> a viable tool instead of a moving target, should just pick one
> and stick with it.  2.1.1, for example.

2.1.2 would be a better choice, unless you also object to people fixing bugs
for you <wink>.

> Of course you and I can do that, solving the problems with our
> respective groups - but putting us in kind of a backwater.  If we
> sort of collectively agree on 2.1.1 (or whatever) for that role,
> though, that backwater could get pretty lively.

I expect PythonLabs will continue wrapping up bugfix releases in the 2.1.x
series for as long as someone volunteers to produce them.  At the moment,
2.1.2 is the end of that line, as 2.1.2 was the last 2.1.x release to
attract a volunteer.  The longer someone waits to start on a 2.1.3, the
harder it will be to sort through, and backport, relevant fixes now going
into 2.2.1 (which Michael Hudson is producing) and 2.3 (where most current
development occurs).

"lively"-is-less-useful-than-someone-willing-to-work-ly y'rs  - tim




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 11:01:26 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:01:26 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
References: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com> <3CA6ADEC.80859964@engcorp.com> <a877mh$sjc$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3CA732D6.91163F1E@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >I take it PyXml and PyUnit no longer qualify as "extensions"?
> 
> You got it.
> 
> >(Not that the idea of unit testing would necessarily appeal
> >to Perl programmers anyway.)
> 
> Let me make clear that one of my goals for this tutorial (despite my
> occasional snarks here on c.l.py) is to have NO advocacy and NO war.

That's a far better form of advocacy than T-shirts promoting
Jesus' hatred of Java!

I do hope you will have a chance to mention PyUnit anyway, even
if not as an extension.  Learning how to use it will definitely
improve a programmer's productivity.

-Peter


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar  3 04:50:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Mar 2002 09:50:58 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
Message-ID: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122>

Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?

Obviously a program may contain quoted material using all the
defined string quoting methods (and this new method as well),
so the problem is defining delimiters that won't occur in the text.

I propose using a variation of the MIME multipart delimiter idea:

The leading delimiter for this new quoted string will be written
just like a raw string, except using 'q' in place of 'r'.
The interpretation of '\' escapes within q'xxx' will be identical to r'xxx'

Immediately following the trailing quote(s) of the q'xxx' (or q'''xxx''') string,
the quoted content starts. '\' characters will be scanned as just
another literal character, and have no escape effect in this content.
The content continues until the defined raw delimiter q-string occurs,
i.e., the xxx part of q'xxx' or q"""xxx""" etc.

Thus the whole value of the q'delim'...delim string representation is exactly
just the characters between the delimiters. E.g., you could write

    assert q'<-=delim=->'content here<-=delim=-> == 'content here' # this would be true

without getting an error.

Note the lack of quotes around the final delimiter string, since it itself is
the final delimiter. This can also be used to solve the final unescaped
backslash problem for quoting windows paths:

    q'|'c:\foo\bar\|

Also note nestability, assuming you guarantee unique delimiter strings
(which you could do by generating a guid if paranoid, or if you had access
to the whole string before outputting the delimiter, you could e.g. use an MD5
hash of the content in hex as delimiter):

    q'
C7593104AF1DE7534F169D5EF1579BF6
'q'|'c:\foo\bar\|
C7593104AF1DE7534F169D5EF1579BF6

(Note two EOLs in the delimiter besides the MD5,
so the quoted content itself has no EOL in it here)

To make this line oriented quoting a little cleaner
(i.e., no funny ' at the beginning of the first quoted line),
one could use Q'xxx'z123 to mean  q'xxxz'123
I.e., include the first raw character in the otherwise
super-quoted content as part of the delimiter, and start
the content with the next character. Below is assumed a single
character EOL.

Thus you can include an EOL at both ends of the delimiter, and

    assert Q'
C7593104AF1DE7534F169D5EF1579BF6'
q'|'c:\foo\bar\|
C7593104AF1DE7534F169D5EF1579BF6
==  q'~'q'|'c:\foo\bar\|~

would not fail (we can write the last, since we know the content).
of course knowing the content here, you could also wrap with

    r"q'|'c:\foo\bar\|"

A null q delimiter could be defined to imply delimiting by the end of the file or
other representation container. I.e., q''<-- content up to EOF -->

Escapes are recognized according to raw string rules inside the quotes of the
q delimiter string, so the delimiter itself does have a final backslash problem,
but that shouldn't be too hard to live with, since there's no such problem for the
quoted payload.

A q string could theoretically allow putting unescaped arbitrary binary data in
a source file, though many editors would have problems dealing with it. Even so,
there might be some use for that. E.g., a binary .gif file could easily be
converted to an importable file binding a symbol to the gif data as a string.
Just prefix symbol = q'' as in

    symbol = q''<binary .gif data><EOF>.

Or you could delimit on both ends of course.

BTW, this will provide a better raw data encapsulation mechanism than XML has ;-)

(XML's <![CDATA[ ... ]]> construct can't nest, because of the fixed delimiters --
though maybe they have a fix by now. I haven't looked for the most recent spec).

I don't know how hard q'xxx'...xxx would be to implement, but I would think a relatively
minor variant of raw string processing would do it (just at the usual end continue
instead of wrapping up, and look for the string you have so far as a trailing
delimiter for a new string starting with the next character).

The Q'xxx'z...xxxz variant isn't essential. Just a way to put an EOL at the z
for aesthetics.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From theller at python.net  Tue Mar 26 10:15:14 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:15:14 +0100
Subject: PEP262 - database of installed packages
References: <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3u1rb921x.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9im44.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a7c3ai$k4e3e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9k7u9.mtb.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7d8g8$khnnh$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9kb27.nme.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <a7gdg4$l5hni$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <slrna9ubdf.f6.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org> <Xns91DC9A4832E20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <a7nhv1$mqa0r$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <eujv9uonmvb9091u87it6438oqoev3cdqh@4ax.com> <slrnaa13du.cmq.akuchlin@crystal.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <a7q3ag$mud7e$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:slrnaa13du.cmq.akuchlin at crystal.mems-exchange.org...
> In article <eujv9uonmvb9091u87it6438oqoev3cdqh at 4ax.com>, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > ownerdescriptor=GetFileSecurity(filename,OWNER_SECURITY_INFORMATION)
> > ...     owner=ownerdescriptor.GetSecurityDescriptorOwner()
> > ...     ownername=LookupAccountSid(None,owner)
> > ...     return ownername[0]
>
> That wouldn't be hard to support on Windows.  The question for Windows
> developers is simply: is it useful to support this?  I'll defer to
> Thomas or Tim on that point.
>

This code requires Mark's win32all extensions to be installed.
win32all may be a very common extension, but it is definitely
not a requirement.

I keep the suggestion I made before:
  So, for PEP 262, wouldn't it be sufficient to use "<unknown>" as user
  (since we don't care), and the value of S_IMODE(st[ST_MODE]) as permission?

Tim, what do you think?

Thomas




From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Wed Mar  6 17:46:13 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 14:46:13 -0800
Subject: The language vs. the environment
References: <mailman.1015449438.31833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x1yexe2mi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> There has been a huge amount of recent PEP activity related to further
> enhancements to the language.  I think in general that if more of this
> energy was directed at the overall environment (library, support tools,
> installers, documentation, etc) we'd be better off in the long run.

While we're at it, am I the only one bothered by how unsharp the
boundary is between the language and the environment?  I'd consider
things like sys.exc_info to be part of the environment, but there's no
other way to get the info.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 04:07:58 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:07:58 +0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

.
....
>
>However, if you are on a 9x platform, and quoting the command just as
>you want the command interpreter to see it on the command line doesn't
>work, you might just want to revert to using the short (non-space)
>version of the name.  So in your example you would replace "program
>files" with "progra~1" (or whatever it may be in the unlikely event
>it's different than that).
>
>--
>-- David
this is win2k. I have tried quoting with "", but I still seem to be
getting

no such command C:\program  etc
-- 
Robin Becker


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Mar  7 22:11:44 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:11:44 +1300
Subject: Integers class...?
References: <slrna8ffpo.dba.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <3C882BF0.B7B6A239@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> 
>   from ints import ints
> 
>   for x in ints[0, 2, ..., 10]:
>       print x

If you're doing that, it might be better to use
the existing slice notation:

  for x in ints[0:11]:
    ...

The only new thing to learn then is that 'ints'
is a sequence containing (conceptually) all the
integers.

Hmmm, I'm sure someone suggested this before...

The only thing you don't get from that is an
easy way to iterate backwards. The best I can
think of is

  for x in reverse(ints[0:11]):

But then to make it lazy, reverse() would have
to do some interesting things. (And no, I don't
want an xreverse function! I hate x... names.)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au  Tue Mar  5 17:55:41 2002
From: jamie.carl at salientnetworks.com.au (Jamie Carl)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:55:41 GMT
Subject: python IDE, komodo
References: <3c84f0eb.27475796@news.easynews.net> <mailman.1015348989.22065.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c854cbd$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

"Trent Mick" <trentm at ActiveState.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1015348989.22065.python-list at python.org...
> [Marcus Stojek wrote]
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am looking for an Python IDE. Nothing extremly special, just
> > easy debugging, tracing maybe profiling. Is Komodo okay?
> > Is there something else (except Visual Studio .NET) I should
> > look at. Something free would be nice.
>
> Komodo is good, but I am biased. :)
> Take a look at:
>     http://www.python.org/editors/
>

Didn't he say free would be nice?  Komodo isn't free.



>
> Trent
>
> --
> Trent Mick
> TrentM at ActiveState.com
>




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 13 20:13:50 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:13:50 -0500
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <u8v0dg4lej417@news.supernews.com> <a6o24g$5t5$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <u8vu28kqll5565@news.supernews.com>

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> wrote in message
news:a6o24g$5t5$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de...
> > It happens to me too, mostly when I'm using a sliding window
> > type algorithm, that is, I need to look at two adjacent members
> > of the list. You can't do this easily by iterating through the list;
> > unrolling the first entry and the last entry are a pain.
> >
> > Is there a way of handling this nicely? Somehow I doubt it.
>
> class ListWindow:
>     def __init__ (self, list):
>         self.list = list + [None]   # assuming None is a suitable out
of
> bounds value
>
>     def __getitem__ (self, index):
>         return self.list [index:index + 2]
>
> for currentItem, nextItem in ListWindow (mylist):
>     <whatever>
>
> Daniel

Nice solution. Thanks.

John Roth
>
>




From brobbins333 at shaw.ca  Sat Mar  9 18:41:17 2002
From: brobbins333 at shaw.ca (brobbins333 at shaw.ca)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:41:17 GMT
Subject: round() function strange behaviour
References: <3c8a9261.149508269@news> <3C8A972E.8517ABEF@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <3c8a9c23.152007063@news>

I understand the problem of rounding errors with binary numbers.
However, the rounding functions of other languages  work around it and
return a usable result. What have they got that Python hasn't got?

BR

ps -- your name is very familiar. i think i've read one of your books.

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:13:50 GMT, Erik de Castro Lopo
<nospam at mega-nerd.com> wrote:

>brobbins333 at shaw.ca wrote:
>> 
>> the round() function will sometimes return a predictable result, as
>> in:
>> 
>> round(45.67891, 2)
>> >>> 45.68
>> 
>> but sometimes it will return something like:
>> 
>> round(56.78923, 2)
>> >>> 56.789999999999999
>> 
>> 2.1 and 2.2 both behave this way on two different (Windows) computers.
>> What's going on here?
>
>
>What you will fins is that some numbers like 2, 0.25 etc can be 
>represented exactly in floating point format while others like
>2/3 cannot.
>
>Thats just the way it is.
>
>Erik
>-- 
>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>BSD:  A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC
>Berkeley or thereabouts.  Similar in many ways to the prescription-only
>medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least,
>more fun.)  The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution".



From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 27 18:54:58 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 15:54:58 -0800
Subject: Python & Poetry <was Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! ...(Mar 26)>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org> <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com> <mailman.1017255224.10677.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0203271554.5a564e1b@posting.google.com>

FYI, this is a very interesting topic to me, so this post is a bit on
the long side with little-to-no technical aspect.

Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1017255224.10677.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoting Gon?lo Rodrigues (op73418 at mail.telepac.pt):
> > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:04:50 -0800, Geoff Gerrietts
> > <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:
> > 
> > >Quoting Courageous (jkraska at san.rr.com):
> > >> 
> > >> >I'd say the skills required to write clear, readable
> > >> >software and clear, readable novels are not entirely
> > >> >disjoint!

I agree, but with a slightly different twist.  There is a skill in
writing prose, just as there is a skill in writing poetry and they do
not always seem to go hand in hand (many great poets could not be even
lackluster prose writers and this_statement.reverse() ).  However,
there is basic skill that both emcompass and that is the skill of
conveying an idea.  A truly obscure and obfuscated story or poem isn't
really interesting unless the reader can identify with the idea in
some way.  Incidently, this is related to why, historically, some
poets looked down at prose as a mode of expression (poets, they
argued, convey ideas, thought, emotion while prose writers had to be
concerned with conveying the plot).  It's all about what ideas we are
trying to convey...
 
> > Poetry and coding are similar in that they are both creative activities
> > needing inteligence, imagination, etc. But there is also a world of
> > difference between the two. A simple way to see this is how they relate
> > to their heritage, their common dead.

In our case, coding is conveying an idea of a behavior to the
computer.  Once again, the conveyance of an idea is the main
objective.  Now, just as any writer will tell you, you convey your
point best when you use the least amount of information required.  I
agree very much with this point; it is very much like the performance
art of magic, my other paid 'hobby' (I've previously seen a thread on
"Is magic poetry?" so I don't want to rehash it here, but I do have a
point).  The method of conveying an idea is at least as important as
the idea itself; any decent magician will tell you that poor
showmanship by the magician can kill the best trick in the world even
if the trick itself was performed flawlessly.  The same can be said of
coding.

There are various old thereoms and ideas about short code using less
memory and being faster and the like (I'm just using this an example,
I am not making the argument one way or the other).  But the fact
remains that the quicker and cleaner that one can communicate the idea
they want to the computer, the quicker the computer may respond
(please note:  the response phase is omitted in this statement, I am
merely referring to the time until the computer can begin its
response)

> Writing code is a lot like writing a poem, with a vocabulary that is
> extremely restricted and formal requirements that are invariably
> rigid. The sense of meaning one derives from a program is generally
> more pragmatic than what one gets from a poem. But both are
> appreciated as much for what they say as for how they say it. 

Excellent point.  If we all remember back to learning about poetry and
the Bard's use if iambic pentameter (let us assume, for now, that WS
did all his own writing), we will recall how strict poetry can be.  A
haiku is another great example.  One must be both a linguist and a
puzzle-teer (what do you call somebody who does a lot of puzzles?). 
Writing code is the same way.

There is a python book, I seem to think it is "Python Annotated Code"
(or something like that), that has the code for determining if a
number is a prime.  Let us say the number is x.  It takes the approach
of dividing the number by every number x/2 and below (except for 1)
and checking for a remainder (no remainder means the number is evenly
divisible, thus not prime).  This code works, but could be made to run
much faster by using math.sqrt(x) instead of x/2 as the first number
(this is a mathematical property of numbers, a number that has
multiple larger than its square root has one that is smaller [e.g. 100
has 50 and 2, 25 and 4, 20 and 5].  Additionally, one could start at 2
and increment up to the square root (another property of numbers, more
numbers are divisible by 2 than by 3 in a sequential series of at
least four numbers; this will reduce the amount of time needed to find
more numbers).
When I saw the alternative way to compute primes (I saw the x/2 method
first, somewhere else long ago), I thought that here was a perfect
example of how code could be poetic.  It made me understand what was
meant by the term 'elegant' code.

> One notable difference between programming and poetry is that a
> programming cliche is acceptable, a rote that people are encouraged to
> re-use, whereas dropping someone else's clever turn of phrase into
> your poem is likely to backfire.

As mentioned before, this can be the same argument used for why code
is not the same as prose (you aren't supposed to plagarize).  However,
coding styles can be likened to poetic styles (the aforementioned
haiku or iambic pentameter).  One could also make the argument (and I
am NOT) that the use of symbols in poetry is equivalent to the reuse
of code in coding.  One takes advantage of something that is already
there and draws further information to or from it (see how this works
whether one is talking about modules or an albatross necklace?).

> 
> I'm still a long way from a thesis, but I think the similarities are
> pretty astounding.
> 
> Maybe that thesis isn't so many years off, after all....
> 
> --G.



Very nice and thought-provoking
D


From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 11:52:39 2002
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:52:39 +0100
Subject: "Zope-certified Python Engineers" [was: Java and Python]
References: <mailman.1016727755.6284.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20020322115241.429$rK@news.newsreader.com>

"Steven Majewski" escribi?
>
>
> On 21 Mar 2002, Cameron Laird wrote:
>
> > So, for example, I've heard that Python isn't as serious
> > as Java because it's not possible to hire "Zope-certified
> > Python Engineers".  Sun does that for Java, Zope doesn't
> > for Python, therefore Python isn't as trustworthy as
> > Java.
>
> In the light of earlier discussion on this thread, here's my suggestion:
>
> Rather than just giving another test, let someone pull out a significant
> non-trivial task from the Python "to-do" list for each applicant for
> certification. After review of satisfactory completeion of 3 tasks in
> different categories, you get certified.  Review might include having
> to write up something on why you did it that way, or some other
> explaination -- basically an essay question. Some organization
> ( Zope? PSA? Python.org ? ) will have to be responsible for final review
> and approval, but largely it will be through "community review" -- i.e.
> submitting to SourceForge, posting to mailing-list/newsgroup for
> discussion, etc. -- although perhaps a little more formalized, like
> the PEP procedure. ( Or maybe this begs for a Slashdot like system to
> distribute the review, grading and selection of projects. )

We already have a sort of Python certification program. And with several
layers of qualifications. ;-)
- Python Devs with commit permission.
- Other Python Devs
- Known c.l.py contributors
- Authors of modules, recipes, etc.

I know this is not a formal procedure (see the smiley.) But for
hiring programmers, wouldn't be better if the applicant can show off
(pun intended) his/her previous work?

If Python skills "certificated" through public collaboration develops as a
our common practice, the community would benefit a lot. And we honor Python
Open Source spirit.

Regards,
-Hernan




From mxp at dynalabs.de  Tue Mar  5 15:13:19 2002
From: mxp at dynalabs.de (Michael Piotrowski)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:13:19 +0100
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
 <m3bse3frtd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <x6664aai3k.fsf@notus.mii.dynalabs.de>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:

> weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:
>
>> Is HP-UX 10.2 deprecated for more recent versions of Python?
>
> Not specifically. HP-UX is deprecated :-) Seriously, it is only as
> good on any platform as Python users care about it being. None of the
> regular Python contributors has access to HP-UX, so any problem
> reported and any patch suggested is hearsay. Unfortunately, the
> patches often tend to break things on systems that the patch authors
> have no access to. Sometimes, patches must be rejected because they
> *obviously* break things on other systems, so the problem that the
> patch submitter wanted to fix remains unfixed.

I was able to get some HP-UX related fixes into 2.2, but there are
still some open problems on HP-UX (somewhere on SourceForge), for
which I lacked the time for further investigation. I'm not currently
using Python, but I'd nevertheless offer to cooperate with anybody
interested in better support for HP-UX (10.20 and 11)--I'm just not
motivated enough to do it alone.

>> PS: Here's the problem with the Python 2.2 ./configure for HP-UX 10.2.  To
>> determine if _POSIX_THREADS is defined in unistd.h, it runs the C
>> preprocessor on a file with the contents:
>> 
>> #include <unistd.h>
>>      #ifdef _POSIX_THREADS
>>      yes
>>      #endif
>> 
>> Unfortunately, with the C preprocessor invocation used by ./configure, the
>> indented #ifdef is not recognized, which results in the #ifdef construct
>> being mindlessly echoed, which is erroneously interpreted as the answer
>> "yes".  This causes _POSIX_THREADS to not be defined in pyconfig.h,
>> resulting in a bunch of undefined thread-related functions at link time.
>
> What C compiler? I doubt that aCC (which is available for 10.20 as
> well) has this problem; do not use the bundled C compiler for anything.

aCC is the C++ compiler; the unbundled ANSI C compiler is cc. But
since the OP was able to compile Python, I doubt he used the bundled
compiler--you wouldn't get that far with a K&R compiler, I think.

My guess is that, like this problem, most problems on HP-UX are in
configure. 10.20 and threads is, ahem, a bit problematic; the DCE
threads are _not_ POSIX threads.

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at dynalabs.de>


From ken at ineffable.com  Thu Mar  7 17:51:38 2002
From: ken at ineffable.com (Ken Causey)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 16:51:38 -0600
Subject: Problem with cgitb
In-Reply-To: <15495.58404.946778.996505@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <1015532454.1203.4.camel@temp> 
	<15495.58404.946778.996505@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <1015541499.1203.12.camel@temp>

On Thu, 2002-03-07 at 16:05, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Ken> While trying to work out an appropriate fix for my problems with
>     Ken> sgmllib I decided to try Python2.2, at which point I could start
>     Ken> using cgitb.  Unfortunately cgitb has a problem when some of the
>     Ken> data it outputs includes HTML, since it does not escape the
>     Ken> appropriate bits and so the browser gets very upset.
> 
> Can you post a bit of the fractured HTML it generates?  If you think it's
> truly a bug and not just an issue that cgitb can't recover because of
> earlier generated HTML fragments, you should file a bug report on
> SourceForge.
> 
> -- 
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)
> 

I'm reluctant to send attachments to the list, and I'm not sure the
problem is clear unless you see a complete example.  If anyone would
like to see an example I will happily email you a 5K tarball with an
example, just send me some email.

Ken




From usenet at thinkspot.net  Tue Mar 12 19:25:31 2002
From: usenet at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:25:31 -0800
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com> <8B012C611E@kserver.org> <u8t5kbhc6qq587@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a6la5r.3vseoif.1@kserver.org>

[posted and mailed]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:59:54 -0600, "Scott Kurland" <skurland at juggler.net>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <u8t5kbhc6qq587 at corp.supernews.com>:

> > > Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?
> >
> > > #Searching for perfect numbers
> > >
> > > howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
> > > for number in range (1,howhigh):
> > >  factorsum = 0
> > >  halfnumber=number/2
> > >  for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
> > >   if number/checking == int (number/checking):
> > >    factorsum = factorsum + checking
> > >  if number == factorsum:
> > >   print number
> > >
> >
> > What do you mean it isn't working? It ran without crashing when I tried
> it.
> > Here is the output from a sample run:
> >
> > >>>
> > How high should I check?50
> > 10
> >
> > Are you expecting some other type of output? What are you expecting?
> 
> Well, I was expecting failure, which we got.  What I hoped for was the two
> perfect numbers between 1 and 50, 6 and 28.

You really should play with the interpreter window open, or add more print
statements to your code so that you can see what is happening at all of the
intermediate steps. Consider the data in this interactive session:

>>> howhigh = 10
>>> range(1,howhigh)
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> range(1, howhigh + 1)
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> for number in range(1, howhigh + 1):
	print "for number = ", number,
	print "halfnumber = ", number/2

	
for number =  1 halfnumber =  0
for number =  2 halfnumber =  1
for number =  3 halfnumber =  1
for number =  4 halfnumber =  2
for number =  5 halfnumber =  2
for number =  6 halfnumber =  3
for number =  7 halfnumber =  3
for number =  8 halfnumber =  4
for number =  9 halfnumber =  4
for number =  10 halfnumber =  5
>>> 

Is this what you expect of the data in the intermediate steps?

> > > Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.
> >
> > Oh, now what newsgroup mistreated you so, that you would expect such a
> > thing? We don't do that here in comp.lang.python!

> Goodness! I'll have to mind my manners carefully, then; usenet has roughened
> them some.
> 
> Thank you, Sheila.

Are you saying, that we need to watch out for flames from you??? 
Oh, dear!
(donning my asbestos suit...)

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar  8 12:06:57 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:06:57 GMT
Subject: Where is quote (again)?
References: <1f5252d4.0203080721.3bfc5c14@posting.google.com> <3C88E7B4.A910D281@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ubsdzt27l.fsf@python.net>

Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> writes:

> <ponder> It would be interesting to have lazy evaluation though...
> I'm not sure if it's possible to implement, or if it will be
> useful at all. It sure makes sense in functional languages,
> but in Python? Hm. 
> </ponder>

The combination of lazy evaluation and non-functional semantics are
only good for creating confusion.

         functional        non-functional
strict       ml                 python
lazy       haskell               brrr

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  All programs evolve until they can send email.      -- Richard Letts
  Except Microsoft Exchange.                                    -- Art
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 10:35:50 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:35:50 GMT
Subject: simple question
References: <mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list@python.org> <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net> <mailman.1016868517.25439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qh1n8.45972$2q2.4038976@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Christopher Palmer" <ctp at ctpdesign.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016868517.25439.python-list at python.org...

> Let's say I have a variable called a

Actually, you have a name 'a'.

> and a contains an integer, say 4522

and the name is bound to an int, conventionally written 4522.

> and I want 4, 5, 2, and 2 to be items in a list instead of an
integer...

Do you want the list to contain 4 ints (answer given by Johann as:
  map(int, str(a))
) or 4 digits:
  ''.split(str(a))
?

Terry J. Reedy







From shalehperry at attbi.com  Tue Mar 26 11:07:09 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:07:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: reduce vs. for loop
In-Reply-To: <20020326072936.GA12343@matijek>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020326080709.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 26-Mar-2002 m2 at plusseven.com wrote:
> 
> Just out curiosity, 
> why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
> 
> def fact1(n):
>     return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
> 
> def fact2(n):
>     result = n * 1L
>     for i in range(1 , n):
>         result *= i
>     return result
> 

bigger problem here.  fact2 returns a long, fact1 returns an integer.  So
fact1(100) fails.



From kragen at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 02:43:08 2002
From: kragen at pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 02:43:08 -0500
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016168907.4720.python-list@python.org> <USnk8.25666$N7.5384674@ruti.visi.com> <uk7sdzqem.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <_kqk8.25881$N7.5410299@ruti.visi.com> <ubsdpzd97.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <83elihknoz.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> writes:
> In more concrete terms (and more to the context of this thread), it
> provides perhaps a cleaner approach to interrupting the blocked
> select.  With select you might try to forceably interrupt the select
> by closing the socket, or sending fake data to another (or the same)
> socket, or having a fairly quick timeout and check for a flag.

Or use a signal.

In Unix, nearly everything (with the exceptions of SysV IPC message
queues and semaphores and child process status changes) that can
generate events are already file descriptors; if you're communicating
with another cooperating process, you're probably already doing it
with a file descriptor, so it fits into select() neatly.

Signals fit into this rather poorly, but they do interrupt select()
and cause the appropriate handler to run, which is generally what you
need.

> But all of those approaches are really ways to try to work around
> the fact that select only works on I/O operations to file handles.
> With Win32 native functions, I'd just define an extra event object,
> and wait on that event object along with the event objects related
> to the sockets.  To shut it down, just signal the special event
> object.

Consider the following:

But all of those approaches are really ways to try to work around the
fact that WaitForMultipleObjects (sp?) only works on signaling of
event objects.  With Unix native functions, I'd just define an extra
file descriptor, and wait on that file descriptor along with the file
descriptors related to the sockets.  To shut it down, just signal the
special file descriptor.

I think the difference is just in how you look at things.

> It's interesting that all of these approaches do have one thing in
> common - they tend not to be portable.

Does Winsock not have socketpair()?  My Win32 API references are all
in another state.



From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Thu Mar 21 00:35:11 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:35:11 +0100
Subject: sys.path append problem
In-Reply-To: <da8db604.0203202108.1d55dbe5@posting.google.com>
References: <da8db604.0203202108.1d55dbe5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020321053511.GB4522@lilith.hqd-internal>

* hejduk <claxtonr at beer.com> [2002-03-20 21:08 -0800]:
> I've recently installed python 2.2.1 on my slak 8.0 linux computer. I
> want to do some gui programming with wxPython, but in order to do that
> I have to change the module search path (sys.path) to include the
> wxPython module. I've tried the following:
> 
> import sys
> sys.append('/some/new/dir')
> 
> This works, but when i shut Python down and restart it the Path has
> been reset to the default, meaning that it is impossible to run
> scripts that attempt to import modules from outside of this default
> path.

That's the way it's supposed to be. If you want to append to sys.path
for all programs that you start, you must either set the PYTHONPATH
environment variable, or, preferrably, put a sitecustomize.py file
somewhere in your PYTHONPATH or into one of the directories of sys.path.

Alternatively, you can create a .pth file in the site-packages
directory.

> When I used python on windoze the sys.path saved when I appended to
> it, so I'm assuming that this is what is suppossed to happen.

Really? That would be news to me.

> I realize that there are several work arounds to this problem, but I
> would prefer to correct it rather than cheat around it, because it
> could be just a symptom of a larger problem.
> 

> Anyone know what the problem is?

You didn't install wxPython with "python setup.py install", did you? It
will then be installed into the site-packages directory and you don't
need to do customize anything.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id AD24C930
public key fingerprint: 3FCC 8700 3012 0A9E B0C9  3667 814B 9CAA AD24 C930
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Mar 20 09:31:13 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:31:13 +0100
Subject: Process to process synchronization (unix)
References: <a6tn83$nh6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <83pu20ieob.fsf@panacea.canonical.org>
Message-ID: <a7a61c$27ra$1@norfair.nerim.net>

It would be a good idea but both programs must run in an asynchronous manner
(fire and forget) because the "client" program is a Web server (Zope) and
the "server" program may process data for some minutes.

In addition "popen" runs the program for the same user/group as the client
program (nobody/nogroup) an I need additional privileges to run the server
program.

I think that named pipes or exchanging sync through the database is the best
solution.

I need to learn those named pipes.
Are there pythonic examples somewhere ?

TIA

--Gilles
>
> Why don't you use os.popen("otherprogram", "w") from Zope to start the
> other program, then write to the pipe whenever there is data
> available?
>
> Maybe that's not possible because of the way the other program starts
> and you have to use named pipes or sockets.  But this would be simpler
> if it is possible.
>




From anthony at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar  6 19:48:29 2002
From: anthony at ekit-inc.com (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:48:29 +1100
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated? 
In-Reply-To: Message from weeks@vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) 
   of "Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:14:29 -0000." <1015438469.628881@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> 
Message-ID: <200203070048.g270mTc07900@burswood.off.ekorp.com>

>>> Greg Weeks wrote
> With this, "make" does indeed create an executable.  But "make test" fails
> both times on test_threads, dying at the end with:
> 
>     test_thread
>     *** Termination signal 14
> 
>     Stop.
> 
> Oddly enough, signal 14 (ALRM) is ignored the first time "test_thead" is
> listed.


And now you enter the cycle of pain... Getting threading working on 
HP/UX appears to depend on 
a) The HP/UX major and minor version
b) The compiler and version
c) Wierd and mysterious compile options that vary with a) and b)
d) The phase of the moon.

This has come up many times in the past - what is needed is for someone
with deep HP/UX knowledge and exposure to a bunch of different HP/UX 
versions to volunteer to fix it. If HP offered something like Compaq's
TestDrive machines, or donated some boxes to the sourceforge compile
farm, someone might be able to look at it. At the moment, there's no-one
who's stepped forward to fix this.

Anthony

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never to late to have a happy childhood.




From uwe at rocksport.de  Mon Mar 25 13:57:49 2002
From: uwe at rocksport.de (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 25 Mar 2002 18:57:49 GMT
Subject: Random...
References: <mailman.1017078819.22451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7nrvd$7sbdt$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

FREDRIK HULDTGREN <tdi01fhu at syd.kth.se> wrote:
| I want to generate random numbers, very large random numbers. If I use
| randrange() I get an out of bounds error since it only supports numbers
| up to (2**31)-1. However, I can use uniform(), but then I get the number
| returned in 7.9655120654553743e+018 or something simaler, and I would
| rather have it in a "L" format(796551206545537430183218312890381031L).
| How do I do this?

| thanx
| /Fredrik

You could generate two random numbers and clue them together to
a longer number.

there is a mp (multip precision) library at http://gmpy.sourceforge.net

Greetings, Uwe

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt                       Uwe.Schmitt at num.uni-sb.de
Universitaet des Saarlandes                     Angewandte Mathematik
Building 36.1 Room 4.17         PO-Box 151150   D-66041 Saarbruecken
Mobile:0177/6806587    Fax:+49(0)681/302-4435   Office:+49(0)681/302-2468


From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Tue Mar  5 15:46:03 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:46:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for        numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org> <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <mailman.1015092245.20363.python-list@python.org> <slrna87sk7.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <slrna87vg9.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <7xbse3j3u4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrna8a5v6.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com> <7xwuwqn6ch.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8abkb.id7.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On 05 Mar 2002 11:48:46 -0800, Paul Rubin <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>> 5. How is 1e200**2 handled?
>> 
>>    Since both 1e-200**2 and 1e200**2 produce the same errno all the time,
>>    but Python still raises OverflowError for 1e200**2 when linked with
>>    -lieee, there must be a separate mechanism at work.  What is that and how
>>    can I override it?  I know this is by design, but I think the design is
>>    dumb (to put it politely). 
>
>What do you want it to do?

return inf.

Huaiyu


From bobnotbob at byu.edu  Wed Mar 13 18:22:14 2002
From: bobnotbob at byu.edu (Bob Roberts)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 15:22:14 -0800
Subject: data persistent from run
Message-ID: <c4e6b17d.0203131522.695853b8@posting.google.com>

What is the best way to keep data like window size and position for
the next time I run the program?  I know in win2k, stuff like that is
usually stored in the registry.  Are there any python commands to
store such information in a platform-independent manner?


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Mar  7 11:31:18 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:31:18 -0700
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192215154@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Alan Daniels [mailto:daniels at mindspring.com] 
> 
> Michael Chermside <mcherm at destiny.com> wrote in message 
> news:<mailman.1015421793.13369.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> The objection you quoted was from me originally, so I feel 
> compelled to respond to it here.
> 
[snip]
> 
> There's still some MAJOR problems I see with PEP 276:
> 
> 1) Right now, we have complete orthogonality between "for" 
> and "if". "for i in seq:" will be called for each value where 
> "if i in seq:" is true. Adding "for i in 5" destroys this.

This surely doesn't have to be true. The for loop implicitly calls
iter(seq) to get an iterator, and the if statement first tries to call
__contains__ when faced with an 'in' test. It's trivial to implement a
__contains__ method for type int that preserves the orthogonality.
You're right though that the PEP should probably say whether it also
proposes to implement __contains__ for type int.

-- bjorn
 



From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Wed Mar 13 19:18:13 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:18:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org> <ayQj8.73101$hO6.5843911@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8vr25.rbm.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:39:02 GMT, Terry Reedy <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> [Clark C . Evans]
>> | Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
>> | does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
>> | as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
>> | consistent, and quite elegant.
>>
>> I would like to see:
>>     .keys()
>>     .items()
>>     .iterkeys()
>>     .iteritems()
>
>I like this idea too.  Best suggestion so far for replacing
>range(len(skjf))./

Question:  Which is better:  items(x) or x.items()?

I think items(x) can just piggy-back on the current iterator protocol, and
can be made to work on any iteratable objects.

On the other hand, x.items() has to be implemented by each and every
list-like classes.  Their subclasses need to override them whenever
necessary. 

So else being equal, I'd prefer items(x) to x.items().


Question:  Which is better name: keys or indices?  items or indexed?  

I think the latter two (indices, indexed) are more descriptive of sequence
types.  This is especially true if one ever want to use a seqdict type.


Question: Which name is better: iterkeys or xkeys?

I thought the general trend is that x- prefix is going to be used for
iterators.  Then I found out that xrange(3) is not an iterator by itself.
And {} has iteritems, iterkeys, itervalues, instead of the x- variety.

So, suppose we'll have an xzip eventually, will it be called iterzip?


Huaiyu


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Mar 12 01:25:46 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:25:46 -0800
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com> <slrna8o03d.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3C8C02B3.674898B0@engcorp.com> <3C8C0460.993A4F81@engcorp.com> <slrna8r2ap.343.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <3C8D9956.5920AA52@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-7C9771.22254611032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3C8D9956.5920AA52 at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Resulting in a grand total Crackpot Index of about 3471, surely
> an all-time record.

I guess you haven't seen some of the more persistent math and physics 
crackpots.  This guy came, didn't get a lot of support, and went 
quickly, without destroying the newsgroup for months or years.  Much 
less of a waste of bits...

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 18 17:00:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 23:00:45 +0100
Subject: XML help
References: <AYpl8.16002$i66.686070@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <m34rjdfsdu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Vincent Foley <vince at news.videotron.ca> writes:

>   I have a XML document <http://freshmeat.net/projects-xml/vim/vim.xml>.
> I want to put the latest_version value in a variable.  How would I do
> that?

The following should work fine

from xml.sax import make_parser, ContentHandler

class find_latest_version(ContentHandler):
	def __init__(self):
		self.in_latest_version = 0
		
	def startElement(self, name, attrs):
		if name == 'latest_version':
			self.in_latest_version = 1
			self.data = ""

	def endElement(self, name):
		if self.in_latest_version:
			self.in_latest_version = 0

	def characters(self, data):
		if self.in_latest_version:
			self.data += data

c = find_latest_version()
p = make_parser()
p.setFeature("http://xml.org/sax/features/namespaces", 0)
p.setContentHandler(c)
p.parse("vim.xml")
print c.data

HTH,
Martin


From dortmann at lsil.com  Mon Mar 11 10:46:16 2002
From: dortmann at lsil.com (Daniel Ortmann)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 09:46:16 -0600
Subject: python name spaces
References: <m3n0xfontm.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com> <3C8C45F2.E0F6D9EC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m3g037nm47.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>

Hans Nowak <wurmy at earthlink.net> writes:

> Daniel Ortmann wrote:

> > I must admit I am frustrated by Python's seeming lack of powerful
> > name space support.  For example, in Perl I can do something like
> > this,

> >     our $b = "...b";
> > 
> >     {
> >         my $a = "...a";
> >         our $f = sub { print $a, "\n" };
> >         our $g = sub { $a = "foo" }
> >     }
> > 
> >     $f->()
> >     $g->()
> > 
> >     # prints ...a, followed by foo.
> >     # the "$a" variable is ONLY seen by the unnamed $f and $g
> >     # subroutines.

> I don't know much about Perl, but this seems a bit like a closure like
> Lisp and Scheme have them.

Yes!  (I was avoiding buzzwords.:-)

> Python namespaces don't work like this. If you want a variable to be
> only visible by a few functions, and shared by those functions, the
> Pythonic solution would be, writing a class.

But must I _name_ everything?

What if I want to build a closure, apply it several times locally, and
then throw it away?  Am I correct that Python "lambda"s, in name only,
resemble Scheme lambdas?

(I posted since I saw no PEP addressing these issues.)

-- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic
3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester, MN 55901
dortmann at lsil.com / 507.529.3887 (w) / 535.3887 (int)
ortmann at isl.net   / 507.288.7732 (h)


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 20:57:57 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:57:57 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dbsh.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-DC18E1.16213106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8dedk.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-EA446F.16570306032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8df64.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-BF7C2D.17575706032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8df64.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
 Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu>
> wrote:
> > I think you have made my point for me, that range is hard to use 
> > correctly.  Did you try running range(n-1,0)?  What list did it give you?
> 
> >>> range(-10,0)
> >>> [-10, -9, -8, -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1]

I started with a positive number n, and claimed that it was hard to 
create and understand expressions such as range(n-1,-1,-1).
You said that if that was so hard, I should instead simply create 
range(n-1,0) and reverse it.

range(n-1,0) is empty when n is positive.  You should have told me to 
reverse range(n).  So, clearly, you did not understand the expression 
range(n-1,-1,-1), contradicting your claim that range is easy to 
understand.

And of course, this only helps when you want the reversal of a half-open 
interval, it still does nothing about the understandability of closed or 
open intervals.

> And?  How does this prove your point other than some minor nit I'm sure
> you're going to pick?  Point stands, there are other ways of doing it.

I agree, there are already ways to do it. There are already ways to do 
everything you might ever want to do in Python, because like most 
sensible languages it's Turing-complete.  So should we stop trying to 
improve the language?

My point is that the ways that exist now are either cumbersome (create 
a range then reverse it then loop over the reversed range, use a while 
loop instead of a for loop) or difficult to program correctly and 
difficult to understand once programmed (multi-parameter range), and 
that the proposed syntax gives a simple easy-to-understand alternative.

Anyway, according to
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=001101beae49$39af7bc0$949e2299 at tim>
it's not a problem if there's more than one way of doing things, but 
there should preferably one obvious way.  This proposal would give one 
obvious way of doing most integer loops.

> While I've got your attention, let me ask you this.  In your notation how
> would you do the following?
> 
> for x in range(n-1,-1,-2):
> 
>     That, unlike the allusion you made above, is not a nit. 

Stops to think... range starts with n-1 ... can't understand the second 
argument before I see the third ... steps downward so starting with n-1 
should be interpreted as all numbers less than n rather than all numbers 
greater than n-2 ... step size is 2 ... now we can go back to the second 
argument, we stop before we get to -1, which with a step size of 2 means 
we stop either at 0 or 1.  Ok, what you want is almost like
    for n > x >= 0
but you want to skip every second value.

That's not covered by the current proposal.  It's supposed to be an 
improvement, not a panacea -- now is a good time for another Tim-quote 
"now is better than never", which is what we'll get if we wait for a 
perfect solution to all our problems.

It's hard to tell without some context (and I'm not convinced a context 
exists in which this is the loop you want), but if I had to write this 
loop, without further information on where n came from or whether it's 
odd or even, I'd probably skip the range() and go for:

    x = n - 1
    while x >= 0:
        ...loop body...
        x -= 2

of course, that requires more care about not continuing from the middle 
of the loop, and you have to look multiple places to even figure out 
that it's a loop over a progression of integers, but even so I think 
it's preferable to range(n-1,-1,-2).

Another possibility, depending on *why* you want to skip every second 
value, is:

    for n > x >= 0:
        if x & 1 != n & 1:
            ...loop body...

which could likely be simplified if we know the parity of n in advance.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Mar 21 01:06:55 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 07:06:55 +0100
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <m3pu1z91y6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrna9imd2.6ii.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <m31yeewj28.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:

> Hm. I just tried freeze (with a simple 'print "Hello, world"') script
> and it failed miserably

"Fail miserably" is not a very precise description if you expected
that somebody improves freeze - so I conclude you are not really
interested in seeing freeze improved.

> I guess not. There is always the hope that if one gripes about
> something someone else will be inspired to do something about it ;)

This is only one aspect of how free software works. Another is that
enough users of some package contribute enhancements. If *all* users
just gripe, development stalls.

Regards,
Martin



From l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com  Fri Mar 15 15:49:57 2002
From: l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:49:57 GMT
Subject: unittest.py: what is TestResult.__repr__   ?
References: <332433e4.0203151141.1e7d92d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C9224EA.4030201@sneakemail.com>

Richard Harlos wrote:

> I'm not a Python programmer (at least, not yet ;)
> 
> I am, however, trying to port the unittest.py framework to another
> language.  Of all the languages that this testing framework has been
> ported to, I thought that Python would be the easiest for me to
> decipher.  For the most part, it seems pretty straightforward, except
> for...
> 
> I'm presently stuck in the TestResult class.  Though I've searched for
> the meaning of "__repr__" in the Python22 documentation, I cannot find
> it.
> 
> Please help me understand this this convention of using leading and/or
> trailing underscores in Python.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> Richard
> 

Check the documentation under special method names: 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/specialnames.html

Basically, any method name that both begins and ends with a 
double-underscore is a way for your own class to define behavior that 
happens when certain syntax is used, e.g. if you define an __add__ 
method, that method is called when an object of your class is discovered 
to the left of a + sign in an expression.

The __repr__ special method is used to define a string representation of 
the object; it is called when someone invokes repr() on your object, or 
by backticks, e.g. `myObj`, or when you type the object name and nothing 
else at the interactive prompt.  It's supposed to return a string that 
can be eval-ed to recreate the object (if possible) or a simple 
description like '<function f at 0x813dd>'
E.g.

 >>> class Test:
...   def __init__(self, value):
...       self.value = value
...   def __repr__(self):
...       return 'Test(%s)' % self.value
...
 >>> t = Test(1)
 >>> t
Test(1)
 >>> repr(t)
'Test(1)'
 >>> `t`
'Test(1)'
 >>> t2 = eval(repr(t))
 >>> t2
Test(1)

   Hope this helps,

   Joshua






From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Tue Mar 19 04:17:15 2002
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:17:15 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <m3bsdkhq78.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

| > p.s.2 what is the status on win9x? Give it up or ;-)
| 
|    More difficult as 9x doesn't have API support for retrieving the Unicode
| names, so it could require reading the directory bytes directly.

Maybe if I new the codepage used by the user, and use that to convert
the 8bit string to unicode?? 

        /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From tim-dated-1016292456.1fd5be at catseye.net  Sat Mar  9 10:27:33 2002
From: tim-dated-1016292456.1fd5be at catseye.net (Tim Legant)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 09:27:33 -0600
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
In-Reply-To: <memo.20020309105159.60829B@gbreed.compulink.co.uk>
References: <mailman.1015637896.15733.python-list@python.org>
	<memo.20020309105159.60829B@gbreed.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <868z91bw2i.fsf@skitty.catseye.net>

usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed) writes:

> Tim Legant wrote:
> 
> > Out of curiosity I ran a couple of quick greps over the TMDA source.
> > TMDA doesn't really fall into either of your "alternative" categories;
> > it's small, but definitely not throwaway and it's an application, not
> > a core library.  It's a mail processor to eliminate SPAM.  However,
> > it's pure Python; there's no integration with C or Java.
> 
> How small is small?

I did a quick wc -l.  We have 8 scripts calling upon 9 modules (in a
package).  The total line count is just over 4500, but since the usage
docstring in each of the 8 scripts is fairly long, I'm going to guess
that the real line count is closer to 3300.

> I have a script at <http://www.microtonal.co.uk/temper.py> with
> around 1490 lines (including comments and blank lines) and 35 uses
> of range, some probably evil, most for for loops.  Two warty
> examples
> 
>   for n in range(1,n+1,2):
> 
> and
> 
>       for element in range(firstIndex, maxBasis+1):
> 
> where the +1 is used for inclusive boundaries.  7 straight 
> range(len(..))s.

I think there's no question that range is sometimes needed, and that
in certain cases it reads a little wonky!  In your latter 7 cases I'd
probably loop over the sequence and keep track of the index myself,
but I don't think there's any clear reason for preferring one way over
the other.

> Well, I've stuck my head above the parapet.  Have a look at the code, and 
> see if I'm expressing myself badly.  It doesn't integrate with C, Java or 
> COM but does do a lot of work with integers.  That's not something Python 
> excels at, but it's such a good language generally that it's still worth 
> using outside its niche.

This is also a good point.  Since TMDA processes text (email messages
and filtering rules) we don't use integers much.  I would imagine
that, when your problem domain is numbers, you'd have to loop over
them a great deal more.  I think this is what David Eppstein has been
discovering in his class, as well.


Tim



From warrierajit at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 14:52:54 2002
From: warrierajit at hotmail.com (warrier)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 11:52:54 -0800
Subject: is there a fully working tar implementation in python
Message-ID: <f3f1a8f7.0203081152.423e82fe@posting.google.com>

I need a fully working (read and write capability) tar implementation
in python. Has one already been coded ? I did find some modules but
each one had its limitations.


From a.martin at perfectwww.de  Tue Mar 12 11:37:27 2002
From: a.martin at perfectwww.de (Andreas Martin)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 08:37:27 -0800
Subject: Ho to use a regular expression group reference as hash key
References: <f2dbb0ed.0203111447.31eddd81@posting.google.com> <a6jve0$t1h$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <f2dbb0ed.0203120837.5a540ec1@posting.google.com>

Hi !

I would like to use html templates with my own tags, e.g.
<td><my-own-tag faxnumber</td> and to substitute <my-own-tag
faxnumber> with the entry hash["faxnumber"] that is to say the saved
faxnumber. That's why I would like to substitute the matching
<my-own-tag key> by the hash entry and the key string should be
referenced by \1 .

Something like this:
pat = re.compile(r'\<my-own-tag (.*?)>')
t = pat.sub(hash[\1],TemplateInput)

The programm should only substitute my own tags. If I try to
substitute every word then words I use as hash key would be
substituted too but I don't want this.

Thank you


"Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote in message news:<a6jve0$t1h$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>...
> Maybe the % substitution operator will help.
> 
> >>> person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}
> >>> target = 'A sample sentence with %(entry1)s and %(entry2)s'
> >>> print target % person
> A sample sentence with value1 and value2
> 
> Another method would be to attempt to substitute every word
> and if the word is not is the hash replace it with itself.
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> target = 'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'
> >>> person={"entry1":"value1","entry2":"value2"}
> >>> re.sub( r'b\w+\b', lambda word: person.get(word,word), target )
> 'A sample sentence with entry1 and entry2'
> 
> 
> Raymond Hettinger


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 19 12:58:32 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:58:32 -0600
Subject: Returning an element from a C struct
In-Reply-To: <3C9772AB.1691D362@saic.com>
References: <3C9772AB.1691D362@saic.com>
Message-ID: <15511.31816.688155.867647@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Brad> I'm trying to wrap a C structure in a Python class definition and
    Brad> have come upon this problem.

    Brad> class foo:

    Brad>     __init__(self, dat):
    Brad>         self.ptr = gnum_t(dat)

    Brad>     __getattr__(self,name):
    Brad>         try:
    Brad>             return self.__dict__[name]
    Brad>         except:
    Brad>             if name == 'A':
    Brad>                 return self.__dict__['ptr'].A
    Brad>             elif name == 'B':
    Brad>                 return self.__dict__['ptr'].B
    Brad>             elif name == 'C':
    Brad>                 return self.__dict__['ptr'].C
    Brad>             # And many others

How about

    def __getattr__(self,name):
        try:
            return self.__dict__[name]
        except KeyError:
            return getattr(self.ptr, name)

?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 19:55:09 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:55:09 +0000
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de> <slrna8mp7i.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <m3d6ycyxn2.fsf@chvatal.cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8o03d.8vk.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:37 -0500, Christopher Browne <cbbrowne at acm.org> wrote:
>
>You might ask the "autocoding" guy if he'd be interested in adding
>this as an alternative syntax for his scheme; it might well be more
>readable than other options...

Is he still posting here?

(I killfiled him some time ago).

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Mar  9 23:15:15 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:15:15 -0500
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> I'm considering writing a wxWindows app for Win32.  The only
> way I'm willing to do this is by doing all of the development
> under Unix, and then grit my teeth while I package up the final
> product for Win32.

Please tell us you are willing to bend a little and at least
*test* under Win32 before you deliver it.  Evidence from the
Era of Java shows that nothing is write-once-run-anywhere...

> Optimally, it would be a single "exe" file that doesn't require
> any installation procedure.  

That's too much to ask for even a native Windows app in most
cases these days.

> If that's not possible, it would be permissible to use a 
> typical "isntall-wizard" type installation ...

Great, you have several options available.

> It looks like Gordon McMillan's installer might fit the bill.

That's probably one.  I haven't used it. 

> Anybody care to share any experiences distributing wxWindows
> apps for Win32?

py2exe will do everything you need except the installer part
of the puzzle.  But there are many installers available, 
including freebie versions of some of the better ones.  Use
py2exe and you'll get a directory with the Python DLL, the
wxPython DLL, your EXE, and a few other DLLs as needed
(e.g. the native regular expression stuff if you use it).
Package and ship, easy as pie.  (I've used PowerArc with 
its option to package into a self-extracting ZIP as a
poor-man's version of an installer and it worked nicely.)

-Peter


From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Fri Mar 22 04:04:54 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:04:54 GMT
Subject: does anyone have any idea?
References: <Zyrm8.17043$Hz2.68698@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <WsCm8.19620$Hz2.74390@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

this is so urgent :(




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar 15 09:04:20 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:04:20 -0600
Subject: psyco, jython, and python speed tests
In-Reply-To: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com>
References: <b03e80d.0203150302.1a2a40ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15505.65380.457894.88916@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Sandy> TEST RESULTS:
    Sandy> ------------

    Sandy> (in decreasing order of performance)
    
    Sandy> psyco 0.4 (cpython22 running psycoized pystone)
    Sandy>     Pystone(1.1) time for 1000000 passes = 16.1721
    Sandy>     This machine benchmarks at 61834.8 pystones/second

    ...

How did you "psycoize pystone"?  I found the best results when
psyco.bind()ing Proc0, Proc1 and Proc8.  I think it's important when
documenting psyco speedups to indicate what steps you took since there are
so many possibilities.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 11:41:31 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:41:31 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
Message-ID: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu>

Abstract

    This PEP proposes to simplify iteration over intervals of
    integers, by extending the range of expressions allowed after a
    "for" keyword to allow three-way comparisons such as

        for lower <= var < upper:

    in place of the current

        for item in list:

    syntax.  The resulting loop or list iteration will loop over all
    values of var that make the comparison true, starting from the
    left endpoint of the given interval.


Rationale

    One of the most common uses of for-loops in Python is to iterate
    over an interval of integers.  Python provides functions range()
    and xrange() to generate lists and iterators for such intervals,
    which work best for the most frequent case: half-open intervals
    increasing from zero.  However, the range() syntax is more awkward
    for open or closed intervals, and lacks symmetry when reversing
    the order of iteration.  In addition, the call to an unfamiliar
    function makes it difficult for newcomers to Python to understand
    code that uses range() or xrange().

    The perceived lack of a natural, intuitive integer iteration
    syntax has led to heated debate on python-list, and spawned at
    least four PEPs before this one.  PEP 204 [1] (rejected) proposed
    to re-use Python's slice syntax for integer ranges, leading to a
    terser syntax but not solving the readability problem of
    multi-argument range().  PEP 212 [2] (deferred) proposed several
    syntaxes for directly converting a list to a sequence of integer
    indices, in place of the current idiom

        range(len(list))

    for such conversion, and PEP 281 [3] proposes to simplify the same
    idiom by allowing it to be written as

        range(list).

    PEP 276 [4] proposes to allow automatic conversion of integers to
    iterators, simplifying the most common half-open case but not
    addressing the complexities of other types of interval.
    Additional alternatives have been discussed on python-list.

    The solution described here is to allow a three-way comparison
    after a "for" keyword, both in the context of a for-loop and of a
    list comprehension:

        for lower <= var < upper:

    This would cause iteration over an interval of consecutive
    integers, beginning at the left bound in the comparison and ending
    at the right bound.  The exact comparison operations used would
    determine whether the interval is open or closed at either end and
    whether the integers are considered in ascending or descending
    order.

    This syntax closely matches standard mathematical notation, so is
    likely to be more familiar to Python novices than the current
    range() syntax.  Open and closed interval endpoints are equally
    easy to express, and the reversal of an integer interval can be
    formed simply by swapping the two endpoints and reversing the
    comparisons.  In addition, the semantics of such a loop would
    closely resemble one way of interpreting the existing Python
    for-loops:

        for item in list

    iterates over exactly those values of item that cause the
    expression

        item in list

    to be true.  Similarly, the new format

        for lower <= var < upper:

    would iterate over exactly those integer values of var that cause
    the expression

        lower <= var < upper

    to be true.


Specification

    We propose to extend the syntax of a for statement, currently

        for_stmt: "for" target_list "in" expression_list ":" suite
                  ["else" ":" suite]

    as described below:

        for_stmt: "for" for_test ":" suite ["else" ":" suite]
        for_test: target_list "in" expression_list |
                  or_expr less_comp or_expr less_comp or_expr |
                  or_expr greater_comp or_expr greater_comp or_expr
        less_comp: "<" | "<="
        greater_comp: ">" | ">="

    Similarly, we propose to extend the syntax of list comprehensions,
    currently

        list_for: "for" expression_list "in" testlist [list_iter]

    by replacing it with:

        list_for: "for" for_test [list_iter]

    In all cases the expression formed by for_test would be subject to
    the same precedence rules as comparisons in expressions.  The two
    comp_operators in a for_test must be required to be both of
    similar types, unlike chained comparisons in expressions which do
    not have such a restriction.

    We refer to the two or_expr's occurring on the left and right
    sides of the for-loop syntax as the bounds of the loop, and the
    middle or_expr as the variable of the loop.  When a for-loop using
    the new syntax is executed, the expressions for both bounds will
    be evaluated, and an iterator object created that iterates through
    all integers between the two bounds according to the comparison
    operations used.  The iterator will begin with an integer equal or
    near to the left bound, and then step through the remaining
    integers with a step size of +1 or -1 if the comparison operation
    is in the set described by less_comp or greater_comp respectively.
    The execution will then proceed as if the expression had been

        for variable in iterator

    where "variable" refers to the variable of the loop and "iterator"
    refers to the iterator created for the given integer interval.

    The values taken by the loop variable in an integer for-loop may
    be either plain integers or long integers, according to the
    magnitude of the bounds.  Both bounds of an integer for-loop must
    evaluate to a real numeric type (integer, long, or float).  Any
    other value will cause the for-loop statement to raise a TypeError
    exception.


Issues

    The following issues were raised in discussion of this and related
    proposals on the Python list.

    - Should the right bound be evaluated once, or every time through
      the loop?  Clearly, it only makes sense to evaluate the left
      bound once.  For reasons of consistency and efficiency, we have
      chosen the same convention for the right bound.

    - Although the new syntax considerably simplifies integer
      for-loops, list comprehensions using the new syntax are not as
      simple.  We feel that this is appropriate since for-loops are
      more frequent than comprehensions.

    - The proposal does not allow access to integer iterator objects
      such as would be created by xrange.  True, but we see this as a
      shortcoming in the general list-comprehension syntax, beyond the
      scope of this proposal.  In addition, xrange() will still be
      available.

    - The proposal does not allow increments other than 1 and -1.
      More general arithmetic progressions would need to be created by
      range() or xrange(), or by a list comprehension syntax such as

        [2*x for 0 <= x <= 100]

    - The position of the loop variable in the middle of a three-way
      comparison is not as apparent as the variable in the present

        for item in list

      syntax, leading to a possible loss of readability.  We feel that
      this loss is outweighed by the increase in readability from a
      natural integer iteration syntax.

    - To some extent, this PEP addresses the same issues as PEP 276
      [4].  We feel that the two PEPs are not in conflict since PEP
      276 is primarily concerned with half-open ranges starting in 0
      (the easy case of range()) while this PEP is primarily concerned
      with simplifying all other cases.  However, if this PEP is
      approved, its new simpler syntax for integer loops could to some
      extent reduce the motivation for PEP 276.

    - It is not clear whether it makes sense to allow floating point
      bounds for an integer loop: if a float represents an inexact
      value, how can it be used to determine an exact sequence of
      integers?  On the other hand, disallowing float bounds would
      make it difficult to use floor() and ceiling() in integer
      for-loops, as it is difficult to use them now with range().  We
      have erred on the side of flexibility, but this may lead to some
      implementation difficulties in determining the smallest and
      largest integer values that would cause a given comparison to be
      true.

    - Should types other than int, long, and float be allowed as
      bounds?  Another choice would be to convert all bounds to
      integers by int(), and allow as bounds anything that can be so
      converted instead of just floats.  However, this would change
      the semantics: 0.3 <= x is not the same as int(0.3) <= x, and it
      would be confusing for a loop with 0.3 as lower bound to start
      at zero.  Also, in general int(f) can be very far from f.


Implementation

    An implementation is not available at this time.  Implementation
    is not expected to pose any great difficulties: the new syntax
    could, if necessary, be recognized by parsing a general expression
    after each "for" keyword and testing whether the top level
    operation of the expression is "in" or a three-way comparison.
    The Python compiler would convert any instance of the new syntax
    into a loop over the items in a special iterator object.


References

    [1] PEP 204, Range Literals
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0204.html

    [2] PEP 212, Loop Counter Iteration
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0212.html

    [3] PEP 281, Loop Counter Iteration with range and xrange
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0281.html

    [4] PEP 276, Simple Iterator for ints
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0276.html


Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.


From i.linkweiler at gmx.de  Sat Mar  9 09:17:54 2002
From: i.linkweiler at gmx.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:17:54 +0100
Subject: PyQT: shrinked Icons in menubar/QToolbutton
Message-ID: <3C8A1992.EEFCBE00@gmx.de>

Hi,

i want to load images as icons for a toolbar.
But the loaded images seem to be "shrinked" ~ 30%.
Any ideas how I can avoid this?

self.toolbar=QToolBar(self, "Datei Operationen")
self.tool_open = QToolButton(QPixmap("./icons/runbig.png"),
     'Run it', '',
     self.slotRun,
     self.toolbar, 'run it')





From leader730 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  4 15:41:34 2002
From: leader730 at hotmail.com (Joseph Youssef)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:41:34 -0500
Subject: Super newbie question D:
Message-ID: <b2Tg8.16086$cq6.577955@weber.videotron.net>

how do I generate a random number in Python, I used to know but I forgot :'(




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From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 21:08:30 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:08:30 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015461984.1986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-751210.18083006032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015461984.1986.python-list at python.org>,
 "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:

> "PEP 274 [4] proposes to make integers iterable by implementing __iter__,
> simplifying ...
> 
> I would also possibly add the discussion of what iter(-x) should mean i.e.
> either counting up from -x to 0 (upper bound exclusive, matches slice
> semantics), or counting down from 0 to -x (upper bound exclusive, useful for
> traversing sequences in reverse order).

You would add a summary of this discussion to PEP 284's description of 
PEP 274?  I didn't want to get too detailed, just provide appropriate 
citations so readers could look up the relevant related proposals.


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Mon Mar  4 10:41:48 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:48 -0600 
Subject: ADO GetRows() example for newbies
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B31@SRM201002>

> 
> sam_collett at lycos.co.uk (Sam Collett) wrote:
> 
> >How could you do pages of records (in ASP for example), you may only
> >want a few records at a time (if you have 1000 records for example)?
> >For example I may want a page with 10 records per page, with the page
> >numbers at the bottom.
> >For 100 records:
> >10 pages (10 links)
> >Start at 1 on page 1, 11 on page 2 etc)
> 
> Unfortunately, this varies from SQL provider to SQL provider. 
>  In Postgres, for example, I can say:
> 
>    SELECT * FROM users ORDER BY lastname OFFSET 20 LIMIT 10;
> 
> That fetches me records number 21 through 30.  By changing the OFFSET
> value, I change which subset I get.
> 
> SQLServer uses a different syntax.  I believe "TOP" is the SQLServer
> equivalent of LIMIT, but I don't know how to do "OFFSET".
> 
> Another alternative is to use a cursor, but again the 
> implementation vaires by backend.
>

And since the question is squarely in ASPs, I'd do the following:

1. Obtain ALL results into an array of arrays with:

import win32com.client, cPickle

	RS = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Recordset")
	RS.Open("...query...", "...connection...")
	if not RS.EOF:
		# Fetch ALL rows and transform from it's "natural" form
		# [ (A_1, A_2, ...), (B_1, B_2, ...), ...]
		# into a more useful
		# [ (A_1, B_1, ...), (A_2, B_2, ...), ...]
		# and pickle into a string.
		all_rows = cPickle.dumps(zip(*RS.getrows()))

		# Make up a random filename.
		fname = make_a_random_filename_somehow()

		# And save locally on the server.
		open(Server.MapFilename(fname),"w").write(fname)

		# AND STORE THE FILENAME.
		Session("PickleName").Value = fname

2. When you're displaying the results, read the pickle and
   display from there:

	fname = str(Session("PickleName").Value)
	all_rows = cPickle.loads(open(fname).read())

3. When you're done with the data, destroy the pickle file
   so it isn't left hanging around there:

	fname = str(Session("PickleName").Value)
      os.remove(fname)
	Session("PickleName").Value = None


This helps, because you don't have to query every time you
display the results page, and they're cached locally on a
file which can be quickly read and displayed.

#include <all-normal-security-stuff-regarding-local-files.h>

Hope this helps.

-gustavo



From g_braad at survion.com  Tue Mar 26 12:55:58 2002
From: g_braad at survion.com (Gerard Braad)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 18:55:58 +0100
Subject: Python and the Parrot
Message-ID: <1017165359.15705.4.camel@acropolis>

Hello, 


i've been using Parrot since it's initial release and was impressed by
it's performance... it's getting better and starting to be a whole lot
more useful... i wanted to know if someone else here is using it... and?
do you think python should be ported to the parrot vm??? or are you
already programming (/porting/testing/etc) on it???

"will Python swallow the Parrot? or will the Parrot swallow Python???"

for more information, see: //www.parrotcode.org/ or //dev.perl.org/

greets, 


Gerard





From aahz at panix.com  Mon Mar  4 19:29:28 2002
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 16:29:28 -0800
Subject: Python standards
References: <Z7Ug8.52655$Dh.5203103@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a613h8$e7n$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <Z7Ug8.52655$Dh.5203103 at bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,
CSJedi <a at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Can someone tell me if Python has proprietary or consensus standards such as
>ANSI?

Our standard is Guido.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2002 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"How come we choose from just two people for President but more than 50
for Miss America?"  --AEN


From gopesh_sharma at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 19:29:27 2002
From: gopesh_sharma at yahoo.com (gopesh_sharma)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:29:27 -0000
Subject: Calling java servlets using python
Message-ID: <a5uf57+phjb@eGroups.com>

Dear All:

Please let me know how to call java servlets using python? 
I need this help urgently.

Thanks,
Gopesh Sharma




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 30 12:19:23 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 18:19:23 +0100
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017486169.15848.python-list@python.org> <3CA5E2EA.1CADAF70@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <m3y9ga7z38.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Are there code snippets which clearly have significantly improved
> readability as a result of a rewrite using the proposed bool?

The standard library has 110 occurrences of "return 0", 70 occurrences
of "return 1", and 136 occurrences of "return None". Optimistically,
this makes 300 functions. It would help users of these 300 functions
if they would know whether those functions return a boolean or an
integral value (if integral, what range?); for the "return None"
cases, the boolean type would help to clarify whether this is "return
no value", "return False", or "return nil object";

Regards,
Martin



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Mar  4 22:13:02 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:13:02 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1015289109.29113.python-list@python.org> <a61afo$5si$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <eppstein-168C27.19130204032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <a61afo$5si$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>,
 Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> And by the way, as far as counting goes one could argue that 1..5 is 
> even more natural, as it truly spans the set of the natural numbers of which 
> 5 is a member, as opposed to the less 'standard' set of the 'non-negative 
> integers less than 5'. But that's a minor nit-pick.

While we're picking minor nits, I would consider the natural numbers to 
include zero.


From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Thu Mar 21 18:50:29 2002
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:50:29 +1100
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
Message-ID: <20020321235029.B66B438F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

> > Albatross encourages (but doesn't enforce) the separation of presentation
> > and logic. You might do something like this in Albatross:
> >
> >     <ul>
> >     <al-for iter="reptile" expr='["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]'>
> >       <li><al-value expr="reptile.value()" whitespace></li>
> >     </al-for>
> >     </ul>
>
> Why, oh why, does it use HTML-like syntax?  People keep implementing
> templating languages that do this over and over, and it's a bad, bad
> idea.  Any moderately complex example of templating will violate the
> rules of HTML/SGML, with things like <img src="<al-value
> expr="something">">, which is horrible to read, will anger WYSIWYG
> editors to no end, and isn't at all necessary.

The intention is that Albatross templates be valid XML - while Albatross
will do the expected thing in the example you give above, it generally
provides a "better" way, such as:

        <al-img expr="something">

> All you have to do is use [] instead of <> -- it look about the same,
> will have all the good cognitive associations (how nesting works,
> etc), but is orthogonal to HTML, just like your templating system is
> orthogonal to HTML.  I.e., you're templates would look like

But this wouldn't be XML... 8-)

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/



From nas at python.ca  Thu Mar  7 17:57:05 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:57:05 -0800
Subject: [OT] range() for unix shell
In-Reply-To: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com>; from bass@slinkp.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:09:31PM -0800
References: <2adab837.0203071409.76588265@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20020307145705.A4605@glacier.arctrix.com>

On my Linux machines:
    $ seq 5
    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    $ seq 2 5
    2
    3
    4
    5

I don't know how standard seq though.  It might only be part of GNU.

  Neil



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Mar 24 21:35:51 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:35:51 +1200
Subject: Reloading exception explained (Re: mutlifile inheritance problem 
 simplified)
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com> <3C9BAB77.B4E17C65@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E8D07.2FD89B05@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Marc wrote:
> 
> "D:\PythonCode\pna\eyeTracking\tests\b01.py", line
> 8, in __init__
>     a01.a.__init__(self)
> TypeError: unbound method must be called with
> class instance 1st argument

I can see what's happening here. It's because
you're reloading some modules more than once.
When you import b01, you reload a01, and then
when you import c01, you relod a01 *again*.

The result of this is that there are *two*
classes "a" in existence. Class b inherits from
the first one, created when you reloaded a01 for
the first time, and class c inherits from the
second one, created when you reloaded a01 for
the second time.

Now, when you come to do

   a01.a.__init__(self)

in class b, you're dealing with an instance which
has the *first* incarnation of class a as a superclass.
But a01.a is bound to the *second* incarnation of 
class a, so when Python checks whether self is an
instance of a01.a, it finds that it's not, and
throws an exception.

The moral of this is, if you must use reload(),
make sure that you reload each module only once,
and in the correct order.

Also be aware of all the other limitations
of reload(), such as the fact that any instances
you may have around from before the reload will
still be instances of the old versions of your
classes.

Personally I think it's better to avoid using
reload() at all, because of all its limitations.
Arranging for your computation to be restartable
in some other way, as was suggested elsewhere in
this thread, is a much better idea.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From havea at nanar.stebe  Wed Mar  6 13:04:58 2002
From: havea at nanar.stebe (faith)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:04:58 -0500
Subject: Brenda Lee Ehmka has forgotten about Kevin Ehmka
References: <d1fdb735242f05016e40b1d8743a911d@xganon.com> <a65b42$hdk$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <a65lmu$gne$0@dosa.alt.net>

"jim dutton" <jjd at enteract.com> wrote in message
news:a65b42$hdk$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> In article <d1fdb735242f05016e40b1d8743a911d at xganon.com>,
> xganon  <nobody at xganon.com> wrote:
> >Brenda, do you wash your hands and your cunt after you masturbate, or
do you
> >leave your own skank all over yourself, pretending it's Jackie
Tokeman's jism?
> >
>
>  Steve chaney Brenda is out of your league. Get over her.
>
>

in other news, chaney is too busy humping his blow-up
thanksgiving turkey doll to post.

faith


========================================================================
=
> Visit a homepage:
> www.bishopdutton.org
> Read about the internets biggest kook/pedophile/obese/
> chronicly unemployed/women beater. ie the worst of the internet:
> http://www.pat-acceptance.org
> Feed blobbi the psychopath a hog
> http://pat-acceptance.org/bobbi.html
>
>
========================================================================
=
> **whoop whoop chany alert**
> now me, i wouldnt call chanby a philistine.
>
> he's a fanboy. an angry one ... much like the angry ape in the passage
> from Measure For Measure that i quoted above. and accordingly we see
> chabny once again adopting the cartoontoothed battle-postures of Quake
> Arena in order to give his inferiority complex a temporary boner, a
> sad, tiny, angry, miniature boner that will last long enough to drop
> doomed legacyless chanbyseed across multiple pages of the japanese
> preteen rape comix that he holds so defensively close to his heart.
> -cb
>
>  >Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 19:21:16 -0600 (MDT)
>  >From: What happens if I press THIS button? <anayat at math.enmu.edu>
>  >To: Talk-List <talk-list at leba.net>
>  >Subject: This is the side of Tawnya that GunHed won't tell anyone.
(snip)
>  >There was a lot that caused me to no longer want to be with Steve.
Some
>  >of it was the fact that he was too .. rigid.  To me, he had no sense
of
>  >humour and he took all my questions to be personal attacks.  Yes, I
>  >admit that I was a bitch to him for the last year.  That's because I
did
>  >not want to be with him.  Since April of '94, I told him that I
wanted
>  >out of the relationship.  But he wouldn't let me go.  He refused to
let
>  >me leave him even though he knew I wasn't happy with him.  So, I
started
>  >arguments at any opportunity I could.  I made his life a living hell
>  >trying to get him to let me go, but he wouldn't. (snip)
>  >It was almost fateful the night that Steve and I got into a
monstrous
>  >argument.  It was a stupid argument over which wordprocessor was
better:
>  >WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS or MS-Word6.0.  For nearly 2 hours, we
argued.
>  >Finally, Steve cut the "TALK" session that we were holding at
6:58pm,
>  >MST, on Thursday, March 9th.  Since I had a class at 7, I simply
logged
>  >out and went to class.  I came back at 10pm, MST, and there was a
very
>  >nasty letter in my box saying that I "fucked up" and he was leaving
me
>  >because "he was tired of my bullshit and how I was treating him like
>  >shit".  It was then that I realized that I was finally free of him.
I
>  >didn't leave him, he left me. (snip)
>  >Monday morning when I went back online, I found out that Steve had
>  >started spreading that I cheated on him.  I tell you this.  I did
not
>  >cheat on him.  It was not until the 10th of March, the day AFTER
Steve
>  >left me, that I finally agreed to go out with John.  AFTER he had
left
>  >me.
>  >
>  >Then, he swore to me that if I did not leave John then he would come
>  >after me with a shotgun.  Now that seems a little farfetched as he
won't
>  >come to New Mexico, where I have always lived and he also swore that
if
>  >I came to California, then he would have a shotgun ready for me
and/or
>  >have me arrested.
>  >
>  >But for what?  I never once said that I would go see him, and I
don't
>  >think that he owns all of California.  He has threatened to do too
many
>  >things to me, anything from Netdeath to reality death.  And this
hasn't
>  >been just because I left him, but because I wasn't lett him control
me
>  >any longer.
>  >
>  >When he came here in January of '94, it was a happy time.  Until I
saw
>  >that he lived for control.  I went on IRC one night just to check my
>  >mail and to say Hi to anyone I knew, I was kicked off by a dork who
had
>  >taken over #talk.  But because I didn't go into catatonics, Steve
went
>  >crazy.
>  >
>  >He stomped around my room with fists clenched and there was a wild
look
>  >in his eyes.  Now I'm 6' and weigh approximately 200 (give or take 5
>  >lbs) lbs and I know how to defend myself.  However, I was afraid of
what
>  >Steve was going to do as he slammed his fist against the wall (which
>  >caused it to boom out loudly) and I knew that if he were to strike
me, I
>  >wouldn't be in a good position to do anything against him
considering
>  >he's 6'0 and weighs nearly 300lbs.  Basically, I was not safe with
him,
>  >or so I felt.
>  >
>  >Probably by now, all of you are bored stiff.  I admit that this is
not
>  >what you designed this talk-list for.  But please, realize this.  I
did
>  >NOT cheat on Steve.  He dumped me and there was someone here who was
>  >willing to go out with me.  John is here, with me, in the same area
as I
>  >am.  He's not pushing marriage on me.  Steve was going to make me
either
>  >have his children or raise them, whereas I didn't want either.
Also,
>  >John shares my love for animals, whereas Steve would rather seem
them as
>  >roadkill. (snip)
>  >I leave the judgement up to God's hands, as we humans are too flawed
to
>  >judge ourselves.  Only the Purest may decide.
>  >
>  >Toni A. Anaya
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






From jacobs at darwin.epbi.cwru.edu  Sat Mar  9 10:24:19 2002
From: jacobs at darwin.epbi.cwru.edu (Kevin Jacobs)
Date: 9 Mar 2002 15:24:19 GMT
Subject: need something like __init__ in classes __classinit__
References: <efc75b6a.0203072331.66cd338f@posting.google.com> <a6ab93$ien$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <efc75b6a.0203090440.6c3c0fff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6d9f3$fu1$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Jens Gelhaar <cuiod-tec at web.de> wrote:
> I looks like a conflict between "type" and "extensionclass". 

> Beside, for me it would be natural to have a hook during "compile
> time" like __classinit__. Serveral years ago I worked with FORTH and
> there was no difference between compile and runtime. It was easy to do
> everything what can be done during compile time.

I wouldn't bother -- as soon as Zope3 comes out, all of this will work
without hacking the Python core.  There is very little chance that such
changes will be accepted by Guido, so it is up to you to decide if this
issue is worth diverging from the stock interpreter.  Esepcially since you
can do the following in the mean time:

class Primary(Persistent):
  def __classinit__(cls):
    # ...

  # ...

# Manually call your own classinit after its definition
# NOTE: This wil go away after Zope3 stops using ExtensionClasses
Primary.__classinit__(Primary)


> I will try to hack a little bit in the source. Thanks

If you are truely intent on doing this, then the call to __initclass__ be
the final step the end of the ReadyClass function.

Regards,
-Kevin

-- 
----------->  Kevin Jacobs  <-----------|------->  (216) 986-0710  <--------
Informatics Consultant                  | Department of Epidemiology
Primary mail:   jacobs at theopalgroup.com |   & Biostatistics
Alternate mail: jacobs at darwin.cwru.edu  | Case Western Reserve University
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Mar 30 08:30:46 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:30:46 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: decision tables Re: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct
 (new  proposal):
In-Reply-To: <3ca55b4a.6988843@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203301628260.2616-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Gerson Kurz wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:33:13 +0300 (MSK), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
>wrote:
>
>>However, I'd liked to see a good paradigm for expressing
>>decision tables like this one:
>>
>>F1 F2 F3 R
>>0  0  *  do1
>>0  1  0  do2
>>0  1  1  do3
>>1  *  *  do4
>
>just an idea: subclass dict, implement pattern matching in the lookup
>func?
>
>derived_dict(
>  (0,0,2) : do1,
>  (0,1,0) : do2,
>  (0,1,1) : do3,
>  (1,2,2) : do4
>)
>
>with lookup
>
>d[F1,F2,F3](args)

Well, that is if do1-4 are functions. But if they are just some short
pieces of code? Making them functions will clutter the code...

However, I like the idea, thanks!

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, March 30, 2002 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Answers: $1 * Correct answers: $5 * Dumb looks: Free! *" _/




From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Mar  5 10:44:00 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:44:00 -0500
Subject: Python Help - Splash Screen
References: <a61nmv$bhi$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <3c84d1cf$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <3C84E7C0.4020204@wi.mit.edu>

I stole this a while ago from the following post from 
quickdry at users.sourceforge.net deja reference 
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tkinter+using+pil&hl=en&selm=3bf9d934%240%2410227%24afc38c87%40news.optusnet.com.au&rnum=1

I modified it to add PIL support for loading images.  It shows a splash 
screen with an image (jpg, gif and others that PIL supports) for a 
specified number of milliseconds, then it closes and the main window 
pops up.  You will need to have PIL installed 
http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/
You'll have to supply your own "python.jpg" file to test :)

"""SplashScreen
A splash screen that displays an image for a predefined
number of milliseconds.

usage
tk = Tk()
s = SplashScreen(tk, timeout=2000, image="python.jpg")
mainloop()

The main window will be shown after the timeout.

requires: PIL imaging library
"""

from Tkinter import *
try:
     from PIL import Image, ImageTk
except ImportError:
     import Image, ImageTk

class SplashScreen(Toplevel):
     def __init__(self, master, image=None, timeout=1000):
         """(master, image, timeout=1000) -> create a splash screen
         from specified image file.  Keep splashscreen up for timeout
         milliseconds"""
         Toplevel.__init__(self, master, relief=RAISED, borderwidth=5)
         self.main = master
         if self.main.master != None: # Why ?
             self.main.master.withdraw()
         self.main.withdraw()
         self.overrideredirect(1)
         im = Image.open(image)
         self.image = ImageTk.PhotoImage(im)
         self.after_idle(self.centerOnScreen)

         self.update()
         self.after(timeout, self.destroy)

     def centerOnScreen(self):
         self.update_idletasks()
         width, height = self.width, self.height = \
                         self.image.width(), self.image.height()

         xmax = self.winfo_screenwidth()
         ymax = self.winfo_screenheight()

         x0 = self.x0 = (xmax - self.winfo_reqwidth()) / 2 - width/2
         y0 = self.y0 = (ymax - self.winfo_reqheight()) / 2 - height/2
         self.geometry("+%d+%d" % (x0, y0))
         self.createWidgets()

     def createWidgets(self):
	# Need to fill in here
         self.canvas = Canvas(self, height=self.width, width=self.height)
         self.canvas.create_image(0,0, anchor=NW, image=self.image)
         self.canvas.pack()

     def destroy(self):
         self.main.update()
         self.main.deiconify()
         self.withdraw()

if __name__ == "__main__":
     import os
     tk = Tk()
     l = Label(tk, text="main window")
     l.pack()

     assert os.path.exists("python.jpg")
     s = SplashScreen(tk, timeout=2000, image="python.jpg")
     mainloop()





From sheershion at mailexpire.com  Sat Mar  2 10:02:45 2002
From: sheershion at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:02:45 -0000
Subject: win32+popen4
References: <$4LupWAmqsf8Ew0o@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ud6ypoyh1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <BgphPKAuT0f8EwTK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Xns91C4AE233CF92rcamesz@amesz.demon.nl> <3C7FF015.D1A00D13@ccvcorp.com> <Olay+iAdWBg8EwbJ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns91C5A2F25BE98rcamesz@amesz.demon.nl>

Robin Becker wrote:

> interestingly I don't seem to need the \ quotes in win2k. What
> system is it that needs those?

Well, usually you don't, but I've found I *had* to escape a \ when it's 
at the end of the commandline. ISTR that escaping all backslashes 
didn't hurt, so that would make it a safer option. Presumably, even MS 
wouldn't treat some \<letter> combination as an escape sequence in a 
commandline, but there may be other strange combinations.


Robert Amesz


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar  5 09:36:35 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:36:35 -0600
Subject: bsddb for beginners?
In-Reply-To: <Xns91C8BEB63FDAFAusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
References: <Xns91C8BEB63FDAFAusYourStandingInIt@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <15492.55283.824251.57402@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

(Apologies for the long-winded reply.  I've been answering questions on
python-help for too long I guess.  Just jump to the end for the spoiler. ;-)

    A> I want to get into databases, but most of the tuts around seem to be
    A> over my head.

    >>> import bsddb
    >>> db = bsddb.btopen('spam.db', 'c')

These two lines should be pretty straightforward.  Import the necessary
module and create a bsddb btree file associated on disk with spam.db.

    >>> for i in range(10): db['%d'%i] = '%d'% (i*i)

Let's restructure this a bit:

    for i in range(10):
        key = '%d' % i
        val = '%d' % (i*i)
        db[key] = val

The first line loops i over the integers 0 through 9 inclusive.  The last
line associates val with key in the database file.   Most database file
packages like bsddb (and dumbdbm and dbm) require the keys and values to be
strings.   If the code was

    for i in range(10):
        key = i
        val = i*i
        db[key] = val

it would make more sense, as it would be just like a dictionary, however it
would raise an error.  The assignments

    key = '%d' % i
    val = '%d' % (i*i)

simply convert i and i*i to strings.  In this case you could also use

    key = str(i)
    val = str(i*i)

or

    key = `i`
    val = `i*i`

When the left-hand argument to the % operator is a string, a new string is
produced by interpolating the right-hand argument(s) according to the format
specifiers in the string.  %d tells the format operator to treat the
corresponding argument as an integer.  For complete details of string
formatting, check out

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html

    A> Also, do I take it that the Berkely System comes with Python 2.2, and
    A> therefore I don't need to download anything else? Or is bsddb merely
    A> an interface for the Berkely System?

The bsddb module is simply a wrapper around the Berkeley DB library.  It
comes with Python, but Berkeley DB comes probably from your OS vendor.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Fri Mar 22 14:23:49 2002
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoffrey Talvola)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:23:49 -0500
Subject: Why do Windows sockets break after exactly 4 minutes?
Message-ID: <BFFEB31BC23CCD44B8924E139E1D87E41241B3@MAILBOX.nameconnector.com>

Gordon McMillan wrote:
> Geoffrey Talvola wrote:
> 
> > I've noticed that Windows sockets seem to close all by themselves if
> > there is no activity for 4 minutes.  Does anyone know why?  Is it
> > possible to control this behavior?  Just a link to some 
> documentation
> > of this behavior would be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > I don't think the same thing happens on Linux, or maybe it 
> does but the
> > timeout is longer than 4 minutes there.
> > 
> > I've attached a set of 2 test scripts that provoke the 
> behavior.  Start
> > up server.py first, then client.py, then wait 4 minutes.
> 
> Does it help to note that if you change:
> 
> >     time.sleep(250)
> 
> to time.sleep(15), then the socket closes after 15 seconds?
> 
> Your client does a shutdown(1) after sending some data.
> The shutdown(1) causes the server to fall out of the
> receive loop. It then sleeps for however long specified,
> sends some data and closes the socket.
> 
> In other words, the behavior is exactly what you asked
> for, and Windows' socket implementation has nothing to
> do with it.

But that's not what's happening.  If I have the call to time.sleep() sleep
any amount of time up to 4 minutes, then the client receives the "goodbye"
message after the correct amount of time -- exactly as intended.  But once I
bump the time up to > 4 minutes, then instead of receiving the "goodbye"
message from the server, a socket.error exception gets raised in client.py
_exactly_ 4 minutes after the call to shutdown (even if I use
time.sleep(1000) or time.sleep(10000)):

sent message at Fri Mar 22 14:14:01 2002
socket exception caught at Fri Mar 22 14:18:01 2002
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\junk\SocketTimeoutTest\client.py", line 13, in ?
    data = s.recv(1024)
  File "<string>", line 1, in recv
socket.error: (10054, 'Connection reset by peer')

When I use a time shorter than 4 minutes in the time.sleep(), the output
from client.py looks like:

sent message at Fri Mar 22 14:20:43 2002
Received 15 bytes: Goodbye, world!
closed socket at Fri Mar 22 14:20:58 2002

So something is breaking the socket after 4 minutes.

I should note that this is on a Windows NT 4.0 SP6 box.  Perhaps I'll try
Win2K to see if there's a difference there.

- Geoff



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Mar  5 04:36:26 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 10:36:26 +0100
Subject: I've got the unicode blues
References: <3c846d80.95456984@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <j4eliz73vp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) writes:

> Coming from a lowlevel assembler/C background, the most intuitive way
> of understanding the whole messy thing is this: ASCII characters are
> one byte each, UNICODE characters are two byte each. That is not
> correct, but its a pragmatic way of viewing things that has worked so
> far on the Windows implementation of UNICODE. 

Notice however, that for Unicode, there might be a difference between
on-disk representation and in-memory representation. Also notice that
different on-disk representations are in use (UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32,
...)

> The first two initial bytes look suspicious, but all bytes after that
> are like expected: two bytes per character, and the latin letters look
> like their ASCII counterpart. Some searching at http://www.unicode.org
> reveals that the first two bytes are identifiers for UNICODE files
> like this, called "BOM". 

Correct.

> Back then, in the times of 2.1, two solutions were proposed, neither
> of which work:
> 
> >>> unicode(open('test.reg').read(), 'utf-8')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeError: UTF-8 decoding error: unexpected code byte

That can't work; the file is not encoded in UTF-8. UTF-8 is a Unicode
encoding where each character does *not* have two bytes; characters
from the ASCII subrange need only one byte, whereas, e.g. umlauts need
two bytes; Chinese characters even need three bytes.

> OK, after a bit of searching I suspect I might have to go for utf-16,
> because that seems (to my limited UNICODE knowledge) like its the
> two-byte-codec I was looking for:
> 
> >>> encode, decode, reader, writer = codecs.lookup('utf-16')
> >>> f = reader(open('test.reg'))
> >>> print f.readlines()
> []

That should work, in theory. However, a better way to spell it is

f = codecs.open('test.reg', encoding='utf-16')

> Those are unexpected results in my view. I suspect the reason is the
> BOM is not handled by those functions. 

There was a bug in the UTF-16 stream reader of Python 2.1, where it
would not remember the byte order across .readline invocations. That
bug is fixed in Python 2.2.

> My take on this is, that the builtin file-readlines() *should* really
> know about BOM and return UNICODE strings if the file has a BOM. 

They do now.

> I volunteer to patch the readlines function, if some other people
> out there feel that this is right, too.

Please try Python 2.2 first; if there is any remaing problem, report
it to SF.

> My first foolish attempt:
> 
> lines = ReadLinesFromAnything("test.reg")
> file = open("test.out","wb")
> assert(type(lines[0])==types.UnicodeType)
> file.write(lines[0])
> file.close()
> 
> gives me the first line, all right, but in ASCII, not UNICODE! 

Yes, a Unicode string must be converted to a byte string before you
can write it to a file. To do that, Python uses the encoding returned
in sys.getdefaultencoding(); in the standard installation, that is
"ascii". It was considered the most useful value for a general-purpose
encoding, since it is also use when you do things like

  unistring += "HKLM\foo\bar"

Here, the byte string on the right-hand-side must be converted to a
Unicode string before the two can be added - this is another place
where the default encoding is used.

Normally, you'll get an error if the default encoding is used in the
"wrong" place; this appears one of the few cases where it silently
does the wrong thing.

> file.write(unicode("test3","utf-16"))
> 
> which raises the following exception:
> 
> File "D:\Scripts\2002\02\read-unicode-lines.py", line 20, in ?
>     file.write(unicode("test3","utf-16"))
> UnicodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data

No surprise: the byte sequence '\x74\x65\x73\x74\x33' does not
constitute a valid UTF-16 encoding.

> when I desperately try this:
> 
> data = unicode(lines[0],"utf-16")
> file.write(data)
> 
> I get the exception
> 
> File "D:\Scripts\2002\02\read-unicode-lines.py", line 20, in ?
>     data = unicode(lines[0],"utf-16")
> TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported

No surprise either: unicode() is a function that constructs a Unicode
string, given a byte string (similar to int(), list(), or
tuple()). What you want to do is to create a byte string, given a
Unicode string; to do that, invoke the string's .encode method

  file.write(lines[0].encode("utf-16"))

> The hexdump looks OK, too. But, when I try to write multiple strings,
> I run into trouble again, because each string is prefixed with the
> BOM, and not the file only:
> 
> lines = ReadLinesFromAnything("test.reg")
> file = open("test.out","wb")
> for line in lines:
>     file.write(line.encode("utf-16"))
> file.close()

In Python 2.2, this can be rewritten as

lines = codecs.open('test.reg',encoding='utf-16').readlines()
file = codecs.open('test.reg','w',encoding='utf-16')
file.writelines(lines)

Due to the bug in Python 2.1, you do indeed get multiple copies of the
BOM; to work around this, you can do

lines = ReadLinesFromAnything("test.reg")
file = open("test.out","wb")
file.write(codecs.BOM_LE)
for line in lines:
    file.write(line.encode("utf-16le"))
file.close()

The LE/BE codecs don't write a BOM, so they operate nicely using
sequential write. In fact, this is what the UTF-16 codec does: it
first writes the BOM, then writes the data in the chosen endianness.

> - *much* better support for UNICODE Textfiles in python
> - a *much* better documentation on this in python.
> 
> So now I already feel much better :)

I hope I could answer some of your concerns. Contributions of
documentation are welcome. To the original Python Unicode
infrastructure authors, it is just not clear what problems people run
into, as it is not clear how people *expect* that these things should
work.

Regards,
Martin


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Mar  1 14:13:00 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:13:00 -0800
Subject: __abs(self)__?
References: <f3Qf8.2391$26.139172@typhoon.maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a5ok65$8s27f$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Mike Carifio" <carifio.nospam at nospam.usys.com> wrote in message
news:f3Qf8.2391$26.139172 at typhoon.maine.rr.com...
> I'm reading about special method names. __abs__(self), which maps to
the
> abs() method seems unneccessary(?).

(Whoops, it got away from me)

Compare:

class ExampleNumber:
    def __init__(self, initializer):
        self.value = initializer
    def __abs__(self):
        return abs(self.value)

x = ExampleNumber(-1)

print abs(x)

class ExampleNumber:
    def __init__(self, initializer):
        self.value = initializer
    def abs(self):   # name isn't special?
        return abs(self.value)

x = ExampleNumber(-1)
print abs(x)


HTH,
--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------





From leader730 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 22:26:01 2002
From: leader730 at hotmail.com (Joseph Youssef)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:26:01 -0500
Subject: number of lines in a file
Message-ID: <b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465@weber.videotron.net>

hello, I am nwe to Python and I'm trying to write this script but I need it to check how many lines is in the file and I don't know how so I'm hoping someone could tell me.

-- 
Too often we lose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and bitch-slap that mother@#?!&! upside the head! 


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From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Wed Mar  6 20:21:38 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:21:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015443011.15149.python-list@python.org> <6qu1rtfkdi.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <slrna8dg52.q8j.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

>James_Althoff at i2.com writes:
>
>> > [f(x) for x in (4 in 3) in (2 in 3) if x in (x+1 in x*2)] # just for fun.

>> But just to make sure I understand your point, I guess you are saying the
>> above is bad because today's equivalent is more clear?
>> 
>> [f(x) for x in range((4 in range(3))) in range((2 in range(3))) if x in
>> range((x+1 in range(x*2)))]

No. Today's equivalence is 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: iterable argument required

>> Can you suggest a less contrived example that might be a problem?

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote:
>
>x, = 1
>
>would assign 0 to x instead of raising an error.

Exactly.  And one can imagine a situation where this may build up to the
above contrived example if the error is not detected earlier.  Even though
this proposal does not directly lead to 3 == (0,1,2), it does imply that you
can use an integer in majority of cases where a sequence is required.  Eg:

f(*6)
a,b,c = 3
2 in 4
for a, b in 2, 2, 2, 2: print a, b
3[2][1][0]

Huaiyu


From seeger at sitewaerts.de  Thu Mar  7 06:05:21 2002
From: seeger at sitewaerts.de (Felix Seeger)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:05:21 +0100
Subject: time date math problem
Message-ID: <a67h6t$c6ee2$1@ID-79019.news.dfncis.de>

Hi

What I want:

Date:

20.03.2002

20.05.2002 - 21.00.0000 = 30.04.2002


I need this for displaying an archive of files by date:
The last files from this week
Than ever week a file
After one month every month a file
and so on.


How can I do this ?



thanks
have fun
Felix


From tejarex at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 12:47:41 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:47:41 GMT
Subject: new to python - please help
References: <9e629c01.0203120932.5b3eae15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1brj8.202456$pN4.11584493@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Owen Stevens" <owen_stevens at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e629c01.0203120932.5b3eae15 at posting.google.com...
> (apologies for last post)
>
> i made a dictionary (mydict) with the following structure:
>             mykey=(list1:list2)

This is not a legal python statement

> i overwrote list1 inside the dictionary with a new list
>
>      templist1=[mydict[mykey][0]

Neither is this, so it is hard to know what you actually entered, and
therefor hard to comment on what you claim to be the output.  Try
again, with the actual code you ran (preferably cut and pasted) and a
short description of what you are trying to accomplish.

Terry J. Reedy





From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Mar  5 03:54:29 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 09:54:29 +0100
Subject: Memory leak when importing?
References: <yv2it8cwcod.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <j43czg9sdh.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <yv21yezl9ag.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <j4sn7f75tm.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> writes:

> > 
> > I'd invoke gc.getobjects() from time to time, to see whether the list
> 
> Sounds good, but in which version does it appear? I cannot find it in
> the docs of 2.1 or 2.2, nor a function of a similar name.

It's actually gc.get_objects, available since 2.2.

Regards,
Martin


From p.magwene at snet.net  Sat Mar 16 21:57:06 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:57:06 GMT
Subject: why python for the academe?
References: <mailman.1016330427.15737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.16.21.57.06.459839.73515@snet.net>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:00:57 -0500, huck wrote:

> hello all,
> 
> i've been lurking for a while and am amused at how many people in the
> list here use python for scientific computing. why not matlab (or octave
> or scilab or whatever)?
> 
> 

Speaking only for myself of course - flexibility, extensibility,
readability, and "shareability"

Flexibility:  As a general programming language I find Python to be a lot
more flexible. I've done the programming thing in specialized environment
like Mathematica/Matlab/Octave/R.  While particular operations are
sometimes simpler in these environements, the general structure of
programs seems to be much more constrained.  When I'm implementing some
new bit of code for my research, often as not, I'm (hopefully) not doing
the same things that people have done previously, and so I appreciate the
flexibility of a general programming language.

Extensibility:  I can use precanned extensions like Numeric when I need an
extra speed boost, or write a quickie interface to some piece of C code I
have lying about (though I HATE to do this - it makes me appreciate python
that much more).

Readability:  I can hand my code to one of my colleagues and chances are
they'll understand what's going on, regardless of whether or not they know
python.

"Shareability": Python is free and widely available (so are Octave Scilab,
R, etc., but not Matlab) and there is a large amount of freely shared code
available, much of it useful.  While many researchers in the US/Europe can
probably afford the $500+ licensing fees for something like Matlab, many
of our colleagues around the world can not (And I'm generally tired of
shelling out more moolah every 12-18 months when the developers of the
commercial packages have gotten around to fixing the bugs in the previous
release)


My-own-two-bits-ly-y'rs,
Paul


From adeptus at onebox.com  Wed Mar 13 17:35:40 2002
From: adeptus at onebox.com (news.earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:35:40 GMT
Subject: Python / Active Scripting - Value Assignment - HELP
References: <f5dc3834.0203130133.732023a2@posting.google.com> <3C8F5564.7020502@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <0vQj8.13070$P4.1124832@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thanks for your help... One thing I didn't think of at the time is the fact
that I was trying to call the script from a HTT file which is used for a
custom folder view in win2k.

>From within the HTT file, no matter what I try to assign to
ax.document.bgColor.Value the following error appears.

  TypeError: 'unicode' object has only read-only attributes (assign to
.Value)

When I do the same from within a regular HTML file, I don't get an error...
But setting the value doesn't seem to do anything. (which gives me the hunch
that the error is still there, just not being brought to anyones attention)
After I'm back on my own PC I'll look into geting the MS script debugger.

calling repr(ax.document.bgColor) rewards me with u'#808080'
(which corresponds to the gray background color) and a unicode str

My understanding of both Unicode and COM are not quite what they should be,
but your suggestion does confirm that the value is a unicode string.

I'm still hoping theres still some simple conversion trick I'm missing.

Thanks again for all your help and time (and especialy the libs
themselves)...

adeptus


"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3C8F5564.7020502 at skippinet.com.au...
> adeptus wrote:
> > OK...
> >
> > Within a script block of a HTML file, I can do the following:
> >
> > something = ax.document.bgColor
> > ax.document.write("Background color is %s:" %something)
>
> What does:
> ax.document.write("Background color is %r:" %something)
>
> show?  (%r == repr(ob))
>
> >
> > However, unlike all the Javascript and VB examples I see, I can't do
> > the
> > following:
> >
> > ax.document.bgColor = "#000000"
> >
> > I always get an error about unicode strings being read only.
>
> Post the exact error.
>
> You could try ax.document.bgColor.Value = "#0000" - expecially if the
> object repr() says "<com object>" instead of still being a string.
>
> Mark.
>
>




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Mar  5 15:08:33 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:08:33 -0800
Subject: Order of constructor/destructor invocation
In-Reply-To: <Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
References: <AQYg8.3531$Hf7.4726@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1015350430.26774.python-list@python.org> <Rt8h8.111896$7a1.9472757@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20020305200833.GB11517@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Brett g Porter (BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com):
> 
> As someone who needed a year or so to separate the C++ and Python halves of
> my brain, I sympathize, and can only urge (as gently as possible) Mr Charney
> to think Pythonically , instead of dealing with the frustration of expecting
> Python to follow C++'s rules. Down that path lies madness.

In particular here, I would point out that using constructors and
destructors to manage your implementation, while it seems elegant, is
really an incoherent design -- incoherent here meant in the technical
sense of "does not hold together", not the vernacular "intoxicated".

The constructor's purpose is to instantiate the object. The
destructor's purpose is to clean up when it goes away. Overloading
those methods with logic salient to neither purpose only serves to
make the methods unsuitable for generalized use.

In a tightly-constrained application, this might not be a problem, but
a solution that does not limit itself can work in more general
environments.

I think that's not only Pythonic, but OO.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "If life were measured by accomplishments, 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     most of us would die in infancy." 
http://www.gerrietts.net/       --A.P. Gouthey



From christophe.delord at free.fr  Mon Mar  4 15:15:02 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:15:02 +0100
Subject: Problem with SRE's regular expressions
Message-ID: <3C83D5C6.7010303@free.fr>

Hello,

I'm using regular expressions in python in a parser generator. I have 
some troubles with the module named 're'. In fact it uses the 'sre' 
module. When I explicitly use the old 'pre' module it works fine.
So my problem is when big strings are scanned using non greedy operator 
(for example ".*?") 'sre' seems to be recursivle and python stack limit 
is exceeded. With 'pre', their is no problem. Let's consider the 
following program (I'm using Python 2.2):


import sre, pre

big_string = "<" + "that's a very very big string!"*1000 + ">"

for re in (pre, sre):
	print "testing", re
	if re.match('<.*?>', big_string):
		print "Ok, it works"
	else:
		print "Their's a problem here"


This displays :


[christ at localhost py]$ bug_re.py
testing <module 'pre' from '/usr/local/python22/lib/python2.2/pre.pyc'>
Ok, it works
testing <module 'sre' from '/usr/local/python22/lib/python2.2/sre.pyc'>
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./bug_re.py", line 9, in ?
     if re.match('<.*?>', big_string):
   File "/usr/local/python22/lib/python2.2/sre.py", line 132, in match
     return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string)
RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded
[christ at localhost py]$


Is this a bug in 'sre' or just a known restriction. I've tried to send a 
mail to sre's author (Fredrik Lundh) but his email address seems not to 
work. Does anyone know if this behaviour is known and if something is 
planned to correct it?

Best regards,
Christophe.


-- 
Christophe Delord
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/



From junkster at rochester.rr.com  Fri Mar 29 05:48:15 2002
From: junkster at rochester.rr.com (Benjamin Schollnick)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:48:15 GMT
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
References: <3ca33c88@news.mhogaming.com> <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <junkster-FC1F06.05481529032002@typhoon4-1.nyroc.rr.com>

In article <slrnaa75sg.2gd.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
 Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

> case:  Don't like it.  We already have means to do what a case does and do it
> more elegantly.  It would add a needless redundant portion to the language.


We do???

We have the IF .... ELIF statement structure, which can be used to 
simulate a case statement, but it is not as clear nor as neat as
the case statement.

IF X == 0:
   DO_THIS ()
ELIF X == 2:
   DO_THIS (2)
ELIF X == 4:
   DO_THIS (X+2)
ELIF Y == 6:
   DO_THIS()
ELIF Z == "ZEBRA":
   DO_THIS ( ZEBRA )
ELSE:
   DO_NOT_DO_THIS ()


I am not aware of any "errors" in the above code, and it's totally
a BS routine... So please no pointing that out.

But, this routine is not exactly readable compared to a case:

CASE X of:
   0  : DO_THIS()
   2  : DO_THIS (2)
   4  : DO_THIS (x+2)
   6  : DO_THIS ()
 ELSE:
      DO_NOT_DO_THIS()

if Z == "ZEBRA":
   DO_THIS (ZEBRA)

And it can be optimized to:

CASE X of:
   0,6   : DO_THIS()
   2     : DO_THIS (2)
   4     : DO_THIS (x+2)
 ELSE:
      DO_NOT_DO_THIS()

if Z == "ZEBRA":
   DO_THIS (ZEBRA)

The key issue is that I believe the IF / ELIF / ELSE statement can be 
used with multiple variables during the IF ELIF..... At least I remember 
using it that way....

The CASE is cleaner, and can only be used to compare a SINGLE variable 
with multiple values.  And I believe it's easier to maintain.....(And
can be optimized easier).

            - Benjamin


From quinn at cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Mar  8 04:11:52 2002
From: quinn at cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 09:11:52 GMT
Subject: List of Dictionaries
References: <14dc40e2.0203071559.5e3d4550@posting.google.com> <3C88186F.6BEFA3D2@alcyone.com> <ypYh8.1183$m%1.1257@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <slrna8h02o.fan.quinn@cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 05:57:50 GMT, Lenny Self <lenny.self at attbi.com> wrote:
>Here's a chunk of the real code.
>
>f = open("c:/test.dbx", "rb")
>msgs = ReadOEFile(f) # Using 3rd party code to get email out of an Outlook
>mailbox
>
>masterList = []
>
>for mesg in msgs:
>    email = Read_OE_Message(f, mesg.position) # returns a string containg an
>individual email
>    data = MailData(email).getOrderInfo() # Looks though email and sucks out
>important information and returns it as a dictionary
>   # if I print the data variable here It shows data from each of the
>messages (all unique)

Try printing id(data).  If the numbers are the same, getOrderInfo is returning
the same dict for some reason (likely a bug since that's a strange thing to
do).  In that case, you should fix MailData.  If it's 3rd party code and
you can't or don't want to, do 'masterList.append(data.copy())'.

>    masterList.append(data)
>    # If I print the masterList dictionary here it has the right number of
>elements in the list but they are all the same.
>
>Each of the origional dictionaries containd the following key:value pairs
>being appended to the masterList looks something like this.
...
>An interesting piece of info is that when I append a subset of this data,
>say just to key value pairs it works  Like just:
>
>{'sku':'BIO-09','item':'The Rise of Theodore Roosivelt by Morris, Edmund'}

Possibly because making a subset creates a new dict, which avoids the aliasing
problem.

>Same code just smaller dictionary.  Could I be surpassing some sort of
>limit.  I woudn't think this dictionry is that big.

No, you are not exceeding a limit.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Mar 27 15:06:19 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:06:19 -0800
Subject: win32 problem interacting with word97
References: <Xns91DE7E01D2955andrewdarwinwarscom@62.253.162.103>
Message-ID: <3CA2263B.725B8902@ccvcorp.com>


Andrew Brown wrote:

> Is there some kind of "sendkeys" method?

It's available through the Windows Scripting Host.  Not quite trivial to get
to, but better than nothing...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Tue Mar 12 21:54:46 2002
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:54:46 +1100
Subject: Python embedded like PHP 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:13:39 GMT."
             <Tjtj8.48802$3O2.18198075@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> 
Message-ID: <20020313025446.674FA38F35@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

>Are there any projects out there that allow you to embed python in HTML
>like PHP?  I like the PHP-style of embedding the bits of program in HTML,
>but I'd like to use python...
>Something like:
>
><html>
><?python
>	print "<ul>"
>	for reptile in ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]:
>		print "<li> %s </li>" % reptile
>	print "</ul>"
>?>
></html>

You may want to consider Albatross:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross

Albatross encourages (but doesn't enforce) the separation of presentation
and logic. You might do something like this in Albatross:

    <ul>
    <al-for iter="reptile" expr='["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]'>
      <li><al-value expr="reptile.value()" whitespace></li>
    </al-for>
    </ul>

An example Albatross CGI application that demonstrates this is:

    #!/usr/bin/python

    import albatross

    ctx = albatross.SimpleContext('.')
    ctx.locals.reptiles = ["Crocodile", "Python", "Iguana", "Tortoise"]
    template = ctx.load_template("reptiles.html")
    template.to_html(ctx)

    print "Content-Type: text/html"
    print
    ctx.flush_content()

And "reptiles.html" would contain: 

    <ul>
      <al-for iter="reptile" expr="reptiles">
        <li><al-value expr="reptile.value()" whitespace></li>
      </al-for>
    </ul> 

Albatross also gives you an complete templating language, and client and
server side sessions. The extensive manual is available online as HTML at:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/albatross/

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/



From jhorneman at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 08:07:00 2002
From: jhorneman at pobox.com (Jurie Horneman)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 05:07:00 -0800
Subject: fileinput not Unicode compatible? / UTF16 codec problems
Message-ID: <9ac02e81.0203010507.377dba0d@posting.google.com>

Is it possible that the fileinput module is not Unicode compatible?

Because I have a little endian 16-bit Unicode file and have trouble
reading it in. Decoding it with the UTF16 LE decoder gives me a
'truncated data' error. This is because the string ends with '0x0a'
and '0x0a00'. The string is read in using the fileinput module, which
apparently call C stdio getc(), which read a byte and not a 16-bit
Unicode character.

Oddly, this problem doesn't occur for every line.

Is there a solution for this, apart from rewriting a number of modules
myself?

Is there any documentation on which Python modules are Unicode-aware
or not?

Oh, and how does one handle big endian / little endian Unicode when
the UTF16 decoders look for BOMs at the start of each string, but I
only have on at the start of the file? There seems to be no way for me
to tell it which endianness I have, apart from circumventing the codec
and calling the right version myself.

Thanks,

Jurie Horneman


From daniels at mindspring.com  Fri Mar  1 01:05:12 2002
From: daniels at mindspring.com (Alan Daniels)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 22:05:12 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
References: <mailman.1014938571.8011.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d283efe.0202282205.7049ff32@posting.google.com>

[snippety doo dah, snippety ay...]

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
news:<mailman.1014938571.8011.python-list at python.org>...
> > The two lines...
> >     for i in 5: print i
> >     for i in 5, 6: print i
> > ...would behave differently under the proposal.
> 
> They behave differently now. One is a syntax error, the other isn't.

Well duh, that's my point. It *should* be an error. "for i in 5" has
no natural meaning, and grafting one onto it just to save having to
type "xrange" would be, in my opinion, a detriment to the language.

> For the record (I've said this before), I like the idea of integers being
> iterable (and I'm not a set theory wonk).

That's fine if you like the idea. I don't. The only validations I've
seen for it are obscure references to set theory, or the vague notion
that it looks neat since it would make Python read more like Haskell
(or insert whatever favorite research langugage here). I have yet to
see any meaningful explanation on how it fixes some gap in Python, or
improves it other than saving the need to type the word "xrange".

While I'm at it, two problems with it that I haven't yet seen addressed:

 1) If you have a class that defines both __int__ and __getitem__
    methods, and iterate over an instance of it, which method "wins"
    comes iteration time? The usual, or the "for i in 5" trick?

    Maybe this is covered in PEP 276. I've read through it once when
    it was first introduced and didn't see any mention on how this
    would be handled. I'd read it through again, but it's late and
    frankly reading it makes my skin crawl.

 2) Anyone new to the language will wonder exactly why it is that they
    can iterate over ints, strings, tuples, lists, dictionaries,
    files, generators, and indeed, any class instance that implements
    an iterable interface...

    ...but not floats. Hey, if "for i in 5" means something, then
    obviously "for i in 5.0" should mean something too, right? That's
    what a newbie will think, and what good reason answer will anyone
    be able to give them?

> ...an integer will not be an iterator. An integer will be
> iterable...

Again, my point. As I've come to think of it, the whole point of
"iterating" is that the programmer is walking through a collection:

A tuple is a collection, naturally.
So is a list.
A string is, umm, a collection of characters (Cough).
A file is a collection of lines, mostly, if you squint at it right.
A dictionary is a collection of keys, where each key maps to a value.
An class instance can be a collection, as long as it acts like one.

I can NEVER bring myself to see an integer as a collection,
not outside of a lecture on number theory, anyway.

Sorry to rant, but this is the only idea for Python I've seen in a
VERY long time, since the 1.5.2 days, where rather than capturing
my interest and giving me something to contemplate, just strikes me
as ugly, and stays ugly no matter how long I look at it.


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Mar 13 12:31:00 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:31:00 -0500
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
In-Reply-To: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEBLDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>; from jason@jorendorff.com on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 11:36:05PM -0600
References: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGEBJDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com> <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLIEBLDJAA.jason@jorendorff.com>
Message-ID: <20020313123100.A1034@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 11:36:05PM -0600, Jason Orendorff wrote:
> I benchmarked it; results:
> 
>   plain Python: 8.557 sec
>   optimized Python: 2.325 sec
>   Numeric Python: 0.753 sec
> 
> This is for 1000 numbers in both s_vector and r_vector.

But, did you factor in development time?  Even with 10sec runtime, you
can run it 8640 times in a day.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPU cluster, NAS, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Tin



From nas at python.ca  Sun Mar 17 15:13:43 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:13:43 -0800
Subject: How-to : Running profile from inside an class on the class' own methods ??
In-Reply-To: <du6l8.11717$TU3.309359@news4.ulv.nextra.no>; from thomas@weholt.org on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:52:41PM +0000
References: <du6l8.11717$TU3.309359@news4.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <20020317121343.B18548@glacier.arctrix.com>

Look at the runcall() method on the Profile class.

  Neil



From fgeiger at datec.at  Sun Mar 10 11:51:03 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:51:03 +0100
Subject: HTML -> XML: Where's HtmlBuilder()?
Message-ID: <a6g2t0$pb2$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

It's Sunday evening and I seem to have lost the forest for the trees. Guess
I need a break and, better yet, some hints...

Anyway:
I'd like to process a bunch of HTML pages using XSLT. To do so they need to
be "more XML like" (<br /> instead of <br> etc.).

I remembered an article from Dr. D. Mertz (Charming Python #2, July 2000),
where HtmlBuilder() is used for this.

But exec'ing 'from xml.dom.html_builder import HtmlBuilder' yields:

>>> from xml.dom.html_builder import HtmlBuilder
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named html_builder
>>>

I've installed PyXML 0.6.6 and 4Suite 0.11, so I thought I were equipped for
such tasks. A search over my Python inst dir brought this to light:

C:\Programme\Python21\xmldoc\demo\dom\html2html

Its contents are similar to the snippets in Mertz's article, i.e.
HtmlBuilder is used as well:

<snipped/>

# Construct an HtmlBuilder object and feed the data to it
b = HtmlBuilder()
b.feed(HTML_DATA)

# Get the newly-constructed document object
doc = b.document

# Output it as HTML
print "============"
print "HTML version"
w = HtmlWriter()
w.write(b.document)

# Output it as XML
print "\n==========="
print "XML version"
print doc.toxml()

<snipped/>


So several questions come to my mind:
Is HtmlBuilder() deprecated?
Which module was it replaced with?
What else could I use to convert HTML to XML?
Do I need additional modules for this?
Or am I already prepared w/o knowing it?
Or am I completely wrong? If so, how is this done in a
"stat-of-the-art-manner"?

Many thanks in advance and best regards
Franz GEIGER


P.S.:

For those who are curious - the big picture:

I'm writing several modules to process a bunch of HTML files into a site.
A NavBuilder takes a site structure definition (XML format), builds the
navigation tree for each page and merges it into it.
A Linker resolves especially formatted ref's to other pages into real HTML
ref's.
An Execer executes Python code snippets it finds in the pages (like PMZ etc.
does it).
A Shaper applies an XSL file to the HTML pages to make them all look equally
formatted (this is where I am stuck now). (Yes, I could achieve this with
CSS on the client side, but I don't want to.). Then it includes them into a
template file, containing stuff, which is equal for all pages (logos etc.)
(Yes, I could achieve this with frames, but I don't want to.)
Then all pages are ftp'ed to a web server.
All these modules are gathered by a wxPython GUI. So one can load a site,
edit some XML and XSL files, press a button to process and transfer it.






From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Thu Mar  7 15:04:29 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 12:04:29 -0800
Subject: [GERMAN] "ziegenproblem"
References: <mailman.1015525513.28986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x3czc87qq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

stefan antoni <sasoft at gmx.de> writes:
> sorry that i won't be able to explain this in english, i don't know the
> name of this problem in english, and the website which is about this
> problem is also in german.

Usually we call it the "Monty Hall problem".  Monty Hall was the host
of a TV game show where he actually played that game (put a prize behind
one of three doors, etc).

> i want to write this basic code in python:
> http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:Uugc3CH9SOQC:home.spektracom.de/ellrich/Ziegen.htm+ziegenproblem+basic+programm&hl=de
> 
> i am still going to school, and we talked about this problem in a math
> lesson. since i haven't got a basic-interpreter, i'd like to translate
> this code into python, but i don't understand the code.
> 
> anybody who knows basic and python as well?

Yes, but you don't really need a computer program to solve the
problem.  Just play the game a few times with a friend.  Pretend that
you are Monty, and put three cards on the table representing doors,
and put a coin under one of the cards representing the prize.  Have
your friend choose a card.  Then turn over one of the cards with no
coin underneath and ask your friend if he wants to switch to the other
card, and tell him to always switch.

Once you do this a few times, you will understand the paradox.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Mar 27 12:05:20 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:05:20 -0500
Subject: Importing PYC
References: <a7s6l7$e78$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <IZmo8.22760$cB5.19344@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Franck Abella" <fabella at free.fr> wrote ...
> Hi,
>
> I download  a pyc libray and i have a problem to import it. The name of
the
> library is "LibDates.pyc" ( powerfull dates functions)  . I can't use
> "import LibDates.pyc" or "import LibDates" even if i put LibDates.pyc in
the
> python path library.
>
> How can i import it and use their functions ??
>
You don't say what error message you receive. One likely source of problems
is that the .pyc file format is dependent on the Python version, so you
cannot simply use a Python 1.5.2 .pyc with Python 2.1, for example. When the
source is available and the directory is writable, Python will silently
recompile modules whose .pyc files come from the wrong version. In your case
that can't happen because you have no source.

Hope this helps.

regards
 Steve






From helmut.zeisel at aon.at  Fri Mar  8 03:57:45 2002
From: helmut.zeisel at aon.at (Helmut Zeisel)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 00:57:45 -0800
Subject: SWIG: operator const char*() const
Message-ID: <a27c5cd4.0203080057.539fa6e@posting.google.com>

I have a class, say myString, with an operator const char*() const
for which I want to create Python
shadow classes (swig -c++ -shadow -python)

       class myString
       {
       public:
         const char* operator() const;
         ...
       };

Using this code, I get the warning:

       "Can't wrap operator const char* unless renamed to a valid identifier."

So I tried to rename:

       %rename(c_str) myString::operator const char*() const;

This gives the error message

       "Syntax error in input"

What is the correct syntax to rename?

Helmut


From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Mar  2 13:03:51 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 20:03:51 +0200
Subject: Possible to fake object type?
References: <3c80e76b@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5A538FB6E0cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3c80fb6d@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de> <Xns91C5B7ABFE1F5cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3c812217@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

> why not something like that?:
> 
> def __getattr__(self, name):
>        try:
>                return self.__dict__[name]
>        except NameError:
>                return getattr(gtk.HandleBox, name)

This is basically the same as I have now. But the thing is:
__getattr__ only gets called when the attribute _doesn't_ exist,
which is not very helpful, 'cause they would exist in the baseclass,
which is the reason why I can't simply derive from gtk.HandleBox.

I want to have a class which sends all calls to one of its
attributes but at the same time is derived (or even better
_only_ has the same [fake] type, which my original subject header
implied) from something, which unfortunately has a bundle
of the same methods.


Yours,

:M:



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Mar 29 08:57:08 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:57:08 -0600
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com> <hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <c76ff6fc.0203281829.6e2cf785@posting.google.com> <0_Zo8.16784$Ou.11910@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <005401c1d729$b3cef3c0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>


> "John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote ...
>
> > I think that I'm proposing indicating the default by having a keyword
> > argument ("default")on the new-in-2.2 constructor ("dict"); what do
> > you think that I meant?
>
> I knew what you meant, I was simply pointing out that dictionaries'
literal
> representations could notr specify a default value, which (I supposed)
might
> lead to VBScript-like horrors where all dictionaries (collections, in
> VBScript) must be created by explicit addition.
>
> However, Bength Richers suggestion:
>
> > empty_dict_with_default = {:default}
> > with_one_key_value_pair = {:default, key:value}
> >
> > A little tweak in the grammar might do it?
>
> might well suffice, and wouldn't require huge changes to the grammar.

But do we REALLY need it?  Another new semantic feature, another altered
basic behavior.  Python is so cool because it is compact (linguistically)
and easy to grasp.  Each new use of punctuation makes it more complex and
Perl-like.

Writing a class to simulate a dictionary with default value is simple,
and left as an exercise for the reader :-)

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net





From amichail at cse.unsw.edu.au  Wed Mar 27 01:13:23 2002
From: amichail at cse.unsw.edu.au (Amir Michail)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 22:13:23 -0800
Subject: instrumenting Python code
Message-ID: <1010a26.0203262213.4a0d4b11@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I was wondering if there is an easy way to instrument Python code
so that I can collect information about a particular execution. In
particular, I am interested in collecting the following info:

* functions called in execution

* which function called what other function (the call graph)

* the values of local/global variables

It seems I can get all this from the debugger module though it doesn't
appear to have been designed to be used from another program.  The profiler
module only gives the first item above.

Any recommendations?

Amir


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Sun Mar 10 18:01:48 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:01:48 -0800
Subject: Standalone Win32 wxPython apps?
In-Reply-To: <slrna8nf4q.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
References: <slrna8lkqe.1sf.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8ADDD3.E3ACC1EB@engcorp.com> <slrna8lodl.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <3C8AEE09.5B2431FD@engcorp.com> <slrna8lt5q.23f.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m@4ax.com> <slrna8nf4q.1tk.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20020310230148.GL8360@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Grant Edwards (grante at visi.com):
> In article <1a9n8us1629mrvei40hdkuuerc1j6p318m at 4ax.com>, Courageous wrote:
> 
> I would think that for an isolated app, .so's would slow down
> load times.  With a statically linked program all you do is a
> single memmap() call (well, ignoring a few details).  With
> .so's you've actually got to resolve all of the symbols and do
> the linking step (not required for statically linked images).
> 
> Since you've got the same number of bytes to swap in off disk,
> that should be a wash.

I can't speak for the windows world, but in the Linux world, .so's end
up saving some time because the dynamic linker doesn't actually move
things into the program's address space until needed -- it does this
on a page-by-page basis. Consequently, less start-time latency at a
slight cost when you use the feature.

My data comes from: http://www.suse.de/~bastian/Export/linking.txt

A worthwhile read, though it probably should be filed under "dark
sorcery".

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Whenever people agree with me I always 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     feel I must be wrong." --Oscar Wilde



From r.salz at verizon.net  Wed Mar 20 23:38:13 2002
From: r.salz at verizon.net (Rich Salz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 04:38:13 GMT
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net>

> Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define?
 >... are globals the only way to go?

You can at least make them class attributes
	class constants:
		pi = 3.14159
		e = 2.71828
adding your own setattr can serve to make them read-only.
	/r$

	



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Mar 31 01:31:41 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:31:41 -0500
Subject: seek()
References: <mailman.1017529128.3447.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA6AD4D.C552BDDA@engcorp.com>

Zutroi Zatatakowski wrote:
> 
> Is there a kind of seek() function that does the same thing but except
> of bytes, it seeks for a string? Basically, I want the 5 next bytes
> after a certain string in a file. Example:
> Foo:36.50
> The data I want (36.50) is located on a web page and since the content
> of that page always change, I can't get it with seek() because the bytes
> always change too. I've checked in STRING and RE modules but I can't
> find a function that checks in a file/webpage, they all need input from
> a string.

Well, that's the basic key to writing software: use components
that already exist to build up a more sophisticated solution.

In this case, if you have a method of finding a string in a string
(which you have already found), and you have a method of getting
a string from a file or webpage, you can clearly put the two together
to solve your overall problem.

Getting a string from the data in a file is rather simple, and if
you want to get a string from a web page you should look at the
urllib module.  

-Peter


From kalle at gnupung.net  Mon Mar  4 18:15:46 2002
From: kalle at gnupung.net (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:15:46 +0100
Subject: Super newbie question D:
In-Reply-To: <b2Tg8.16086$cq6.577955@weber.videotron.net>
References: <b2Tg8.16086$cq6.577955@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <20020304231546.GA1032@sandra.lysator.liu.se>

[Joseph Youssef]
> how do I generate a random number in Python, I used to know but I forgot :'(

Look at the module random.
http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-random.html

Peace,
  Kalle
-- 
Kalle Svensson (kalle at gnupung.net) - Laziness, impatience, hubris: Pick two!
English: http://www.gnupung.net/  Svenska: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~kalle/
Stuff: ["http://www.%s.org/" % x for x in "gnu debian python emacs".split()]



From acockburn at aol.com  Thu Mar 28 20:01:21 2002
From: acockburn at aol.com (Alistair Cockburn)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 17:01:21 -0800
Subject: Python & Poetry <was Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! ...(Mar 26)>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org> <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com> <mailman.1017255224.10677.python-list@python.org> <7396d2b2.0203271554.5a564e1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f0eae55.0203281701.4e2340c5@posting.google.com>

d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate) wrote in message news:<7396d2b2.0203271554.5a564e1b at posting.google.com>...

> Incidently, this is related to why, historically, some
> poets looked down at prose as a mode of expression (poets, they
> argued, convey ideas, thought, emotion while prose writers had to be
> concerned with conveying the plot).  It's all about what ideas we are
> trying to convey...

Right. I write poetry reasonably well, and talk reasonably well, but
don't feel at all comfortable with fiction.

For me, the diffence between a poem and a story is that the poem
*touches* someone where they already are, and a story *moves* someone
to a new space.

At least, I don't understand any poem that I don't already understand
(ditto from my poems), whereas I have been moved to new understandings
from reading prose.  (also interesting, I can move people to new
understandings through discussion, because I can see they expressions,
but don't feel I can move them to new understandings in text).

Alistair


From berenikeloos at gmx.de  Wed Mar 20 14:48:50 2002
From: berenikeloos at gmx.de (Berenike Loos)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:48:50 +0100
Subject: How to delete/mainpulate global variables ??
Message-ID: <000801c1d048$4435e510$bf7ba8c0@kitty>

Hi

I am using two function in my program. The first one reads out some text of an TK entry field and puts it into a global variable.

The other function has to read out the global variable and has to print out the text. Now the global variable should be deleted, so if I call the second function again without calling the first, NO text will be displayed.

thx a lot 
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From logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  6 20:36:46 2002
From: logiplexsoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:36:46 -0800
Subject: Threading help?
In-Reply-To: <3C86BD6F.9D258DA7@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1015393210.32473.python-list@python.org>
	<3C867E68.B4C3FED2@accessforall.nl>
	<20020306132612.4a5d756a.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>
	<mailman.1015453332.10152.python-list@python.org>
	<3C86BD6F.9D258DA7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020306173646.5fa074f3.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net>

On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:07:59 -0500
Peter Hansen wrote:

> Cliff Wells wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:26:12 -0800
> > Cliff Wells wrote:
> > 
> > > The approach I would take, based upon the information given, is to
have
> > > thread A retrieve the data every .1s (using time.sleep),  when the
data
> > is
> > > retrieved, put it on a Queue and go back to sleep.  Thread B blocks
on
> > the
> > > Queue until data is available.  When data becomes available, B
processes
> > > that data and place it on a second Queue for thread C (thread C
handling
> > > HTTP requests) to deal with.
> > 
> > Hm.  Okay, I had to reconsider this.  Clearly if the processing is
slower
> > than .1s and data is being added to it every .1s, the Queue is going to
> > endlessly grow as more data is added to it.  If this is the case, it
might
> > make sense to have more than one consumer thread (B) doing the
processing.
> 
> I might be missing something, but I don't see how adding another thread
> (with a slight extra overhead associated with it) would actually increase
> performance for what I infer is CPU-bound processing in thread B.  
> Threads don't add performance capacity, they remove it!  (Or is B
blocking
> on something like a socket, thus slowing it down?)

Yes, I thought of this, but I believe that this would give the net effect
of increasing thread priority for the B threads (since they will get more
CPU time as a whole vs threads A and C). 

But maybe a better approach would be this: if processing time is greater
than .1s and we don't care about out-of-date data (big assumption, but not
unreasonable), then use the Queue between A and B and simply have B empty
the Queue on every iteration, processing only the newest data.  This would
keep the Queue to a reasonable size at the cost of dropping data.



-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308



From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sat Mar  9 07:27:04 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Mar 2002 04:27:04 -0800
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is>
Message-ID: <7xpu2ex6xz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Qiang.JL" <dragon at china.org> writes:
> I am a student who have learned perl,java and other like data structure
> stuff. Now i want to take some further step to learn one or two languages to
> improve my language view. There are two languages are on the list: python
> and C++
> I have heard a lot ppl talk about C/C++,saying it's the must language to
> learn for a programmer.and i indeed feel so. but C/C++ is hard and may need
> to take longer time to learn and get the concept.also, Python seems a good
> language and easier to learn.
> I think some of you may come cross this, so let me ask you these questions

C++ is complicated, and in order to really understand it you have to
understand the problems it tries to solve, which are the organizational
problems that software projects get into when a lot of programmers are
working on the same program.  

C is simpler, and different in feeling.  It's more like a high level
assembler.

> do i need to learn C/C++ to be a good programmer?

No.  Both are very useful, especially if you need to write programs
that run fast.  For most things, you can write in C and not worry
about C++ unless you join a big project that uses it.  There are some
specific things like writing Windows COM objects that are easier in
C++ than in C.  

That's separate from needing to learn something to be a good
programmer.  To be a good programmer I think you need a sense of what
the machine is doing, so you should learn a low level language, but if
you're just doing it for the sake of learning, you may as well go all
the way and learn to program in assembly language.  There used to be a
saying that assembly language programming is good for the soul.

That doesn't mean you should actually try to develop complex programs
in assembler and make them useful--you should just get some experience
with it as an exercise, to understand how computer's instruction set
works and have a sense of what a compiler does.  Once you've done
that, C will seem very straightforward and logical to you.

> which one is better to start with ? ( I'm not a program beginner so python
> being a beginner programmer maybe not be applied here)
>
> How many language do you think one should _master_? I think one or two is
> enough.learning others are letting you to learn the language concept and
> structure etc certainly helpful.

If you're an experienced programmer in other languages, you can learn
basically everything about Python in a few weeks.  C++ takes longer
but again, it's just a computer language that some people designed.
It's not like a spoken language which evolves over thousands of years.
The thing is, to really understand C++, you have to spend time working
on multi-programmer projects.  If you only program by yourself, some
parts of C++ will never make sense to you.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 18:11:58 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:58 -0800
Subject: Python+wxWindows as Visual Basic replacement?
References: <a82lnn$gdu@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.170e94873b789ae9989684@news.nwlink.com>

In article <a82lnn$gdu at dispatch.concentric.net>, 
rs at onsitetech.com says...
> Hey all,
> 
> Anyone have any experience using Pythonas an alternative to VB for Windows
> database client apps?  It looks like all the pieces are in place -
> wxWindows, py2exe, a Python ADO library...
> 
> Python per se isn't the issue - what I'm not sure about is what the
> development and deployment experience is like, when using these parts, taken
> together.

Well, I don't have any direct experience with writing database 
clients, nor with using the full VB development environment, but 
from what I have gathered...

Pure GUI development in VB is likely to be a bit easier, because 
the VB environment is (I have heard) quite polished, and allows 
you to do an awful lot with simple 'painting'.  There are some 
graphical designers for wxPython (notably wxDesigner and Boa 
Constructor), but I don't think that either is up to the level of 
VB's.

Of course, you *do* get all the advantages of working in Python 
over working in VB.  If you're doing any significant amount of 
processing of the data within your client, I'd think that this 
advantage would outweigh VB's graphical designer's benefits.

As for py2exe, my personal feeling is that it's usefulness is 
limited unless you're likely to distribute it to a significant 
number of workstations, and those workstations cannot be expected 
to use Python for any other purpose.  In my own situation, I'm 
unlikely to distribute any of the software that I'm working on to 
more than half a dozen machines, and on several of those I'm 
likely to want to use Python for a number of projects.  As a 
result, it's not difficult for me to ensure that Python is 
functioning on all my target machines, and I can distribute code 
as distutils packages, which saves having a separate interpreter 
for every application I'm creating.  Whether py2exe is worth the 
effort for you, will depend on your specific circumstances -- if 
you're wanting to put no more than one or two Python applications 
on a relatively large number of machines, or simply have 
little/no control over the machines it should run on, then py2exe 
would be a lot more useful.
 
Hope this helps...

-- 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 16:21:35 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:21:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The language vs. the environment
In-Reply-To: <15494.34706.724985.628479@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020306132135.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> 
> If you're looking for something to munch on, here are some suggestions, not
> all of which require that you write code:
> 
>     * breathe some life into the catalog-sig:
>           http://www.python.org/sigs/catalog-sig/
> 
>     * find a Python bug without a proposed fix and write one (there are
>       currently between 250 and 300 open bug reports):
>           http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470
> 
>     * document an undocumented module from the standard library:
>           http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/undoc.html
> 
>     * write a HOWTO (another of Andrew's little sideline projects!) about
>       your little niche of Python expertise:
>           http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/
> 

help release more python modules so perl mongers will quite wagging CPAN in
front of our faces.



From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Thu Mar  7 13:09:28 2002
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:09:28 -0800
Subject: Web scripting with Python (My 2nd post!)
References: <40c3f5da.0203061114.18f7fea6@posting.google.com> <LsCh8.342$Gi.251057@news0.telusplanet.net> <40c3f5da.0203070720.6ca52e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3C87ACD8.CEAC724E@noaa.gov>

Julio Nobrega wrote:
>IMHO they are not much user friendly, or community oriented
> enough for *my needs* (not to start a flame, please! ;-)

Maybe you want something like a wiki? Check out:

http://moin.sourceforge.net/

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                    		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Mar  8 08:38:05 2002
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:38:05 +0100
Subject: [ANN] istring 1.0.1 released; announce list created
References: <mailman.1015400770.17863.python-list@python.org> <a65ibf$jsi$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1015554558.21762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C88BEBD.20901@stroeder.com>

Steven D. Arnold wrote:
 >
> 4. Standard library -- If anyone wishes to take the steps to include
> it in the standard library, including any PEPs that may be needed in
> addition to 215, you have my blessing and I'll provide support.  The
> current license is LGPL-like, with the intent of ensuring changes are
> open-source without infecting projects that use it.  I will make
> istring available under the Python license if that is the only
> obstacle keeping it from inclusion in the standard library.

I have to admit that I'm scared of having to deal with yet another special 
char $ which would need quoting. Since the istring approach does not add any 
more value to Python the developers in favor of this should use the istring 
module. But it should not be added to standard Python.

Ciao, Michael.



From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Mar 25 15:29:37 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:29:37 -0800
Subject: reading in ints from binary files
In-Reply-To: <a7ns1d$mi1$1@nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <015301c1d43b$c8eba550$445d4540@Dell2>

Bill wrote:
> However, is there an easier way of doing this?  I currently do
something
> like:
> 
> f=open('file', 'rb')
> s = f.readline()
> l = list(s[0:-1])
> l.reverse()
> a = array.array('h', ''.join(l))
> 
> There's gotta be an easier way.

I'm not really sure what problem you are trying to solve but this might
help:

f = open('file', 'rb')
my_list = array('h', f.read()).tolist()
# my_list is now a list of Python integers, which you can manipulate as
# usual

The use of readline seems crazy to me; it will cause problems if your
integers happen to contain the byte 0x0a.

Cheers,
Brian




From mmillikan at vfa.com  Wed Mar  6 17:23:11 2002
From: mmillikan at vfa.com (mmillikan at vfa.com)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 17:23:11 -0500
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
References: <vcfh8.405$tL.70@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <3czdq05v.fsf@vfa.com> <Ntwh8.2920$J3.429@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <sn7dnxo0.fsf@vfa.com>

"logistix" <logstx at bellatlantic.net> writes:

> Okay, now I'm confused.
> 
> I was perfectly happy with Teddy Reedy's explaination that def is an
> expression and not a declaration.
> 
> But if I'm following you, the embedded attribute function isn't being
> recompiled to bytecode each time function() is called.  If the code object
> is only getting created once, then why are the defaults getting
> recalculated?
> 
> --
> -
> 
> <mmillikan at vfa.com> wrote in message news:3czdq05v.fsf at vfa.com...
> > Note that the <func_code> object is shared by each of the inner
> > <function> objects:
> >
> > text = "random text"
> > def function():
> >     def attribute( bindNow = text):
> >         print bindNow
> >     function.attribute = attribute
> >
> > Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >
> > >>> function()
> > >>> function.attribute()
> > random text
> > >>> function.attribute
> > <function attribute at 01A7930C>
> > >>> function.attribute.func_code
> > <code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\\python-YYAS0o", line 3>
> >
[snip]
> > >>> text = 'new random text'
> > >>> function()
> > >>> function.attribute
> > <function attribute at 01A450CC>
> > >>> function.attribute.func_code
> > <code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\python-YYAS0o", line 3>
> >
> > Mark Millikan

In the example above notice that the function.attribute object is
recreated each time the outer definition is called -- it has a
different address.

However:

>>> import pprint
>>> pprint.pprint(dir(function.attribute))
['__dict__',
 '__doc__',
 '__name__',
 'func_closure',
 'func_code',
 'func_defaults',
 'func_dict',
 'func_doc',
 'func_globals',
 'func_name']
>>> function.attribute.func_defaults
('random text',)
>>> text = "new random text"
>>> function()
>>> function.attribute.func_defaults
('new random text',)

The func_code object is shared, but the function object is not. Each
of the function objects gets a separate func_defaults object. Some of
the state (the func_code object at least, is shared but some is not).

HTH
Mark Millikan


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar 19 17:05:31 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:05:31 GMT
Subject: Chewing international (unicode) filenames on windows?
References: <m31yehhuzz.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <VOCl8.10409$Hz2.41118@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3d6y1apwe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <xRDl8.10641$Hz2.42334@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3bsdkw9wu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3C97B638.9040702@skippinet.com.au>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:


> Subclassing may not be the right solution - perhaps it is better to
> admit that ntmodule.c really should be different from
> posixmodule.c. What do you think?

I am inclined to agree that us pretending they are the same module 
hasn't really saved us much over the years.  So I would have no objections.

Mark.



From sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com  Sat Mar 23 11:15:30 2002
From: sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:15:30 -0000
Subject: IOstreams/pipes, newbie question, capturing console info form another script?
Message-ID: <a7i9kq$ujm$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi,
    I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to streams and such so has anybody
any help with this? i have a Tkinter program that when run and you click a
certain button it calls an 'os.system()' command which starts up another
non-gui python script thus:
 [snip]
 os.system("python mapper.py -settings mappergui.ini -scale %s -out
latest_render.jpg -zone %s" % (self.imageSize, self.currentZone))
 [/snip]
 now i was wondering because this 'mapper.py' script and an included
'zone.py' writes alot of info to the console using 'sys.stdout.write()' can
i intercept this using my first Tkinter prgram so i can display this info in
another freshly created window. basically i am writing a gui for a cmdline
script! if so has anyone got any examples of code for me to look at that
would be great!

 Thanks

 G. Willoughby




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Mar 28 22:04:41 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:04:41 GMT
Subject: Sendkeys without Scripting Host
References: <a7vepu$nqu$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3D9E9.8080907@skippinet.com.au>

Harald Schneider wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> is there a possibility to use sendkeys() without scripting host installed?
> Are there any
> extentions available for python?

Later versions of win32api have win32api.keybd_event()

The documentation for this is pretty sparse:
   keybd_event(bVk, bScan, dwFlags, dwExtraInfo)
   Simulate a keyboard event
   Parameters
     bVk : BYTE
         Virtual-key code
     bScan : BYTE
         Hardware scan code
     dwFlags=0 : DWORD
         Flags specifying various function options
     dwExtraInfo=0 : DWORD
         Additional data associated with keystroke

For more info, check out the function at msdn.microsoft.com

Mark.



From cdonicz at cri-inc.com  Tue Mar 19 18:13:50 2002
From: cdonicz at cri-inc.com (Corey Donicz)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 15:13:50 -0800
Subject: Python Embedding / Import Woes
References: <e64b86de.0203180911.1d718a7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e64b86de.0203191513.5a93c743@posting.google.com>

Here's a quick follow up post from me to me (and anyone else who might
have taken the time to answer this).

I was erroneously linking against the python21_d.dll, and the failing
imports were of .pyd's which needed to be debug version .pyd's.

Doh!

-Corey


From s.ernst at web.de  Fri Mar 15 08:13:28 2002
From: s.ernst at web.de (Sascha Ernst)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:13:28 +0100
Subject: further infos
References: <a6srv3$tbo$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <a6ss2b$nvh$03$1@news.t-online.com>

forget this posting, sorry!
"Sascha Ernst" <s.ernst at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:a6srv3$tbo$00$1 at news.t-online.com...
> 1. "command not found" is the error message. how can I get more detailed
> infos?
> 2. the dev tools are ok, I compiled Ruby some days ago successfully
>
> regards, sascha
>
>
>




From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar  2 14:58:52 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:58:52 GMT
Subject: Can't seem to get it right: Win NT registry save and load
References: <d7d5ebdf.0203010908.113324ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0aag8.8540$va.1091@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

RegLoadKey and RegSaveKey don't necessarily have the best names.  They are
designed to load and save entire registry hives (such as the ntuser.dat
located under each user profile).  RegLoadKey binds to the registry and
RegSaveKey saves the hive (generally for backup purposes).  If you bind a
hive to the registry and make changes to various keys with RegSetKey,
RegSetValue, etc and then Unload it, the changes will be saved.

Some problems you might experience with RegSaveKey:
    -You can't save a file inplace.  Loading a user's ntuser.dat file,
making changes and saving won't work because ntuser.dat will be locked when
you try to save the file.  Furthermore, you don't need to "save" the reg
entry to persist your changes.

    -You need "backup" privledges on the registry hive, which generally
means you need to be an administrator.  This is done for security reasons.
For example, one easy way to break into an NT box (assuming you have
physical access) is to run a repair operation on the system after you've
replaced the backup registry files with an admin account/password that you
know.

Outside of python, you might want to play with the tool Reg.exe and
regedt32.exe to get a better handle for how things work.  Reg.exe got moved
from the NT4.0 Resource Kit CD to the W2K Support tools (that can be found
on the install CD under the "Support" subdirectory)

Have fun (and don't go to crazy with the registry on a production box.  I
just fried mine!)


--
-

"Matthias Janes" <matthias_j at lycos.com> wrote in message
news:d7d5ebdf.0203010908.113324ea at posting.google.com...
> Hi I would like in a python script to save a Win NT Registry entry to
> a file and load it later -
> but it's seems I can't get it right.
>
> win32api.RegSaveKey
> RegSaveKey(key, filename, sa)
>
> I could not realy figure out the 3 part (sa )
>
> get always a error about the security rights.
>
> after I saved it how could I load it again?
>
>  Any Help would be real nice.
>
> Matthias Janes




From mkelly2002NOSPAM at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 14:25:19 2002
From: mkelly2002NOSPAM at earthlink.net (Michael Kelly)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:25:19 GMT
Subject: Why Don't Scripts Run ?
References: <3C8F9C59.F9408D47@mcn.net>
Message-ID: <1p9v8u4vo4dqpccjsom40gtjlgtaiedve8@4ax.com>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:37:00 GMT, jrc <jrchaff at mcn.net> wrote:

>Hi - I'm a reasonably experienced programmer.  I work in
>Windows (ME). Thinking to give Python a try, I downloaded
>v22 and installed.  At first, it looks good, but then, I discover
>it seems impossible to get any scripts to run in the command
>prompt, using any available documentation whatever.  I even
>have Chris Fehily's book - essentially none of his examples
>work with scripts from command prompt; yet this is a 2002
>book .  (?!!)

Hi.  If you don't have any Python 2.2 dependencies or just
want to try Python out you might find it less frustrating to
download ActivePython 2.1.  For me(using Win98 2nd Ed.)
even the Windows Scripting Host worked out of the box.
I've even been using my COM servers on Win98 using
ActivePython with no problems at all.

At least on my system the ActivePython .msi file
installed with no glitches and everything worked
as expected.


--

"Only choice is an oxymoron."

--


From msx at crs4.it  Thu Mar 14 07:35:53 2002
From: msx at crs4.it (Federico Caboni)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:35:53 +0100
Subject: Good book on Python?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000@muir>
Message-ID: <B8B657B9.B46%msx@crs4.it>

On 14-03-2002 12:26, in article
Pine.GSO.4.43.0203141117120.6137-100000 at muir, "Antonis C Koutalos"
<ack at ee.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> 
> Hi there,
> I would greatly appreciate information about a good book on python. I
> have been programming C for a few years, but I know next to nothing about
> python. Therefore, I would appreciate a book that describes the basics of
> python as well as the more advanced features of the language.
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> -A.
> 

Hi,
There are a lot of books about Python nowadays (and, yes,that's GOOD).
I found "Python Essential Reference" by New Riders a very useful book
(that is, if you want a brief but deep explanation of the language,
Provided that you had previous programming experience with other
Languages..) but, AFAIK, it's still based on Python 1.5.2.

I recently bought "Programming Python" by O'Really, and I have to admit
That I don't know if I like it.
It's a very "strange" book, very diifferent from the more famous
"Programming
Perl".
In my opinion it's more like a big cookbook.
And...it assumes you already know the language.
Maybe it can be useful if you already read Python Essential Reference or
Learning Python.

I hope you find this useful.
Bye,

  ____  ____  ____  _  _     ____  _  _  ____
 / ___)| __ \/ ___)/ /| |   / ___)| \| |/ ___) Federico Caboni (msx at crs4.it)
| (___ |    /\___ \\__  | * \___ \|    |\___ \ Software & Network Solutions
 \____)|_|\_\(____/   |_|   (____/|_|\_|(____/ Phone: +39 070 2796 368
  CRS4, Center for Adv. Studies, Research and Development in Sardinia








From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Mar  6 22:09:47 2002
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:09:47 +1300
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015456213.19181.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C86D9FB.9D05A34F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

"Delaney, Timothy" wrote:
> 
> without being a general solution (no step ...

To me, the lack of a step is a *feature*, not a bug!

Steps other than 1 in a range are confusing when
you don't land exactly on the endpoints. Which
endpoint do you miss? Do you even hit either of
them? And it's even worse when the step is negative.
Do the endpoints swap over? Does the closed/open
status of the endpoints swap over? Do you miss
the opposite endpoint if the step isn't -1?
Etc.

So, I see *considerable* benefit from eliminating
this degree of freedom from the range generation
itself, and making the programmer be explicit on
how to map a step-1 range onto something else if
needed.

Perhaps this comment could be added to the PEP?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From mcherm at destiny.com  Fri Mar 29 13:50:53 2002
From: mcherm at destiny.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:50:53 -0500
Subject: problems with circular references
Message-ID: <3CA4B78D.7000202@destiny.com>

   [Jim wants self-contained modules that define error codes
      and error messages]
   [Handling an error requires a MessageCatalog module, which
      imports ALL the modules to build an error message list.]
   [Susan suggests that the classes register themselves with
      the MessageCatalog instead of being imported by it.]

I think Susan's solution is an excellent one. MessageCatalog shouldn't 
have (hard-coded) knowledge of what other modules there are, because it 
is intended to be generic. So have all the OTHER modules register their 
errors with the MessageCatalog during their import.

Of course, not all of the modules get imported as this is a CGI 
application, but the fact that some error code which was generated must 
indicate that the module which defines it already got imported (since it 
was running!). So while the MessageCatalog may not be *complete*, it 
will certainly have all errors which could have occurred.

-- Michael Chermside





From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 08:58:34 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:58:34 +0000
Subject: Data type ideas
References: <mailman.1017469191.15784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6vgbaugf53ph7l96dg8mrchrn894mmbkg4@4ax.com>

I can think of half a dozen ways to approach this but the best
solution is will depend on:

How many people?
How many groups?
Maximum number of people to a group (approx)?

(These determine the best data structures to use.)

How often do you need to run this?

(This determines how much attention to pay to effeciency.)
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 14:51:05 2002
From: nick at nick8325.freeserve.co.uk (Nick)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:51:05 -0000
Subject: Adding static typing to Python
References: <0DFA7478F1E5D311B90900508B1208CF565714@ausmail02.mis.gtech.com> <mailman.1014092911.31096.python-list@python.org> <gft37u8csm1ukd923nr933iq7meimqu5i7@4ax.com> <bhahn-ya02408000R0403021410080001@news.corp.hp.com>
Message-ID: <a75gfi$vr1$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Brendan Hahn" <bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com> wrote in message
news:bhahn-ya02408000R0403021410080001 at news.corp.hp.com...
> Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
> >One of the things I like about C sharp is their use of attributes,
> >where you can define getters and setters on an attribute, but
> >otherwise the attribute is simply used as if it were a public one.
>
> Eiffel does this. It was one of the first things to make me say "Cool!"
> when I started looking into it.
>
> bhahn at transoft.mmangle.net   <-- unmangle address to reply

Object Pascal does that as well.




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 15:10:15 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:10:15 -0500
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
References: <3CA4C09B.D9D15464@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3CA4CA27.F00B91BA@engcorp.com>

Jeff Layton wrote:
> 
> a = []
> a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
> IndexError: list assignment index out of range

Please always cut and paste the actual traceback into the message
so we can see what the interpreter really says.  (In this case
it's okay though.)

You can't assign to the first entry because the list is empty.
You need to append to the list, to let it grow as needed,
sort of like you tried here:

>    I also tried it this way,
> 
> a = []
> a.append = Bob('localhost')

That won't work, because append is a method so you have to pass
the argument in brackets:

a.append(Bob('localhost'))

> and I get the error message:
> 
> a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
> IndexError: list assignment index out of range

That's not the error message you would get from the a.append
attempt you did.  That would have said this:

>>> a.append = Bob('localhost')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'list' object attribute 'append' is read-only

So always cut-and-paste errors into emails...

-Peter


From bernie at 3captus.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:17 2002
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:26:17 GMT
Subject: possible string.strip memory leakage
References: <mailman.1016063904.5367.python-list@python.org> <3C8FEDFB.666F1187@3captus.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FEE9E.158C175D@3captus.com>


Bernard Yue wrote:

> Mike Brenner wrote:
>
> > There might be a memory leak in string.strip.
> >
> > I wrote a python function to strip blanks off the left and right of a string. When I discovered string.strip, I replaced the call to my version with string.split, and I got a large memory leakage. When I put the call back to calling my python function, the memory leakage went away.
>
> Did happen to me.  So we need your Python version and OS you are running.
>

My mistake.  Didn't happen to me (not did happened as stated above)


Bernie



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Mar  4 11:36:29 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 01:36:29 +0900
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <slrna7vmc1.jr.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <87sn7g2stu.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Huaiyu" == Huaiyu Zhu <huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com> writes:

    >> [1] Ie, Python language or character text.  It might be
    >> convenient to have an octet-string primitive data type, in
    >> which you could put EUC-encoded Japanese or Java byte codes.

    Huaiyu> What's the difference between this and a raw string (a
    Huaiyu> byte sequence) that you can translate into any other
    Huaiyu> encoding?

None, in representation.[1]  However, it would not be a string in
the sense you know it in Python: you can't concatenate it, you can't
iterate over it, all you can do is read it, write it, access octets
(which are not characters), or turn it into something else that you
can do something with.  Consider: does it make sense to concatenate a
string of Java byte codes with a string of English text?


Footnotes: 
[1]  It might make sense to have a special representation for it in
source as a subset of the Unicode "private space".  But that's going
way afield.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar  9 16:57:56 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:57:56 -0500
Subject: range Failure?
Message-ID: <3C8A8564.E2F005AA@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20020309/5fb0efbf/attachment.html>

From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar  4 00:26:07 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:26:07 -0600
Subject: How can I use a foreign language char in Swing
In-Reply-To: <a5uoj2$a4su5$1@ID-12869.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLMELNDGAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

> I installed J2SDK 1.4.0 several days ago. I need to get some strings from
> database which stored in GB2312 encode method, and display it
> using Swing. I
> got correct result in Windows2000(Use China as default region and
> GB2312 as
> encode method.) While I??run it on Windows(English Edition), all I can see
> is ?????.
>
> What should I do? I think ResourceBoundle can't help me. Is there
> any other
> method can help me?

(grin) It seems you're on the wrong newsgroup for this.

I'm not sure exactly what's happening.  Here are two possibilities.

  1.  Missing Fonts.  Seems unlikely.  But if this is the problem,
      it's easy to fix.  :)

  2.  Encodings.

      Perhaps this is happening:  the database innocently sends you
      some bytes, and Java must convert those bytes into a String.
      To do this, it must guess which encoding is appropriate.  Java
      makes the best guess it can: your operating system's default
      encoding.  Sometimes this is wrong, as you've discovered.

      In this case, you can usually fix the problem by telling
      Java which encoding to use.  It all depends on where you're
      getting the string.

      Try this:  when you run the program, specify
      -Dfile.encoding=gb2312 as an option to java.  This might or
      might not work.  I'm not sure all JVMs support the file.encoding
      property.  It doesn't seem to be very well documented.

      It would be better to get the raw bytes out of the database
      (in a byte[] array) and convert them to String by yourself, thus:

          String correctString = new String(bytes, "gb2312");

      Several Java standard library classes allow you to specify
      which encoding to use:  String, InputStreamReader, and
      OutputStreamWriter, for example.  You should specify the
      encoding whenever possible!  This helps avoid the kind of bug
      you're currently struggling with.

But perhaps both of my guesses are wrong.  In any case, good luck!

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 11:49:24 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:49:24 +0000
Subject: how do i get RGB from HEX?
References: <a7flgu$cpg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <WCeE3TAUC2m8Ewar@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <a7flgu$cpg$1 at newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, G. Willoughby
<sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com> writes
>Hi,
>    i have been trying to do this for to long now, i know there is an easy
>way, please somebody put me out of my misery! i need to get the RGB value of
>a HEX number (eg, #DCDCDC). can anyone help?
>
>thanks,
>
>G. Willoughby
>
>
split into pairs after stripping the #

>>> def rgb(h):
...     n = eval('0x'+h[1:])
...     return (n>>16)&0xff, (n>>8)&0xff, n&0xff
... 
>>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
(220, 220, 220)
>>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
(220, 220, 10)
>>> 

I'm sure there's probably some better way, but the above works.
-- 
Robin Becker


From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Mar 28 21:08:14 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 03:08:14 +0100
Subject: chat server
References: <B8C97068.C30E%pete@dexterslab.de>
Message-ID: <Xns91E02012713A8cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Henning Peters <pete at dexterslab.de> wrote in
news:B8C97068.C30E%pete at dexterslab.de: 
> hi pythonists,
> 
> i am planning to write a small chat server that uses select() in
> python. multiple clients should be able to connect and chat wih 
each
> other - like on a normal chatserver, just asynchronous...
> 
> my current problem is, that i have no clue how to implement the
> communication between the sockets (a chat message should be 
> directed to all other connected clients).

just maintain a list of client sockets. when you recveive data from 
one distribute it to the others in a for loop over the list.

its possible to add the server socket to the "possible readers" list 
of select so that you can accept new connections without problems.

done that been there - but i won't spoil your fun by sending my code 
;-) unless you relay want.

> is this possible to implement with select() or should it be better 
to
> use the good old fork() each time, a client connects and implement
> interprocess communication via pipelines or shared memory?!

There is also a threading module, i don't think you realy want 
separate processes. but it works fine with select.

> btw: does anybody knows a good documentation about select() and 
related
> themes - i've already read
> http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/programming.html. 

you may be interested in this too:
http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/sockets/sockets.html
 
> bye,
> henning peters
> 
> 



-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Mar  7 13:47:23 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:23 -0800
Subject: CP4E was Re: Deitel and Deitel Book...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203071310380.826-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBCD8B@intrepid> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203071310380.826-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <20020307184723.GB29379@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Roman Suzi (rnd at onego.ru):
> On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > > From:	Geoff Gerrietts [SMTP:geoff at gerrietts.net]
> > > For the space of around three years, a child is immersed almost
> > > constantly, from waking to sleep, and even sometimes while asleep, in
> > > language. For those first three years, the child is almost completely
> > > incapable of making him or herself understood.
> 
> Are you sure? My daughter makes herself understood by all available
> means. She built her own dictionary which we, parents, learned.
> What is interesting, she uses (internally) a hash table to
> convert from our language to her almost instantly...

I think I've answered this complaint with the original post several
times already, so I'm not going to do it again. As a nutshell, I'll
say that the range concepts a child is capable of expressing at this
age is much smaller than the range of concepts a child experiences --
barely one percent of the feelings you see flashing across the child's
face make it into language, spoken or gestured. That qualifies to me
as "almost completely incapable of making him or herself understood."

> I do not remember who told me this, but it seems that students
> better learn from poorly constructed lectures than perfect ones.
> Because, they need to be _active_ in constructing their own system
> rather than _passively_ "eat" readymaid knowledge frames.

This is an interesting point, and might be wrapped back into our
developing idea of a pedagogy. Building in defects might not be the
best idea, because that's likely to lead to criticism and even
dismissal by those who recognize the errors. But building in problems
that expect the student to engage the material and fill in the blanks,
that's something of an admirable goal.

Thanks,
--G.


-- 
Geoff Gerrietts            "Democracy is a form of government that substitutes 
geoff at gerrietts dot net  election by the incompetant many for appointment 
http://www.gerrietts.net/   by the corrupt few." --George Bernard Shaw



From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Thu Mar 28 11:06:46 2002
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:06:46 +0100
Subject: Sendkeys without Scripting Host
Message-ID: <a7vepu$nqu$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

is there a possibility to use sendkeys() without scripting host installed?
Are there any
extentions available for python?

Thanks for your answers!
Harald




From cliechti at gmx.net  Mon Mar 18 16:21:54 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:21:54 +0100
Subject: Help Required
References: <cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac@posting.google.com> <Xns91D31A8FD3696cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <cf4a8ef1.0203180955.55313155@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91D5E3A28249Bcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub) wrote in
news:cf4a8ef1.0203180955.55313155 at posting.google.com: 
> Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:<Xns91D31A8FD3696cliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82>... 
>> surajsub at netscape.net (Surajsub) wrote in 
>> news:cf4a8ef1.0203151724.440b67ac at posting.google.com: 
> Ok here is the code..I just need a set of uid's and other similar
> parameters which i need to feed to ldap.these are just a dummy set 
> of values.
> =============================================================
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> import string
> 
> MIN=0
> MAX=25
> UID="UID"
> val=""
> for x in range(MIN,MAX,1):

1 is the default step, you don't need to write it explicit.

>     if( x == 0 ):
>         x=str(x)
>         val=UID,x+','
>         st=string.join(val,"")
>         st=string.strip(st)
>         print st,
>     elif(x > 0 ):
>         x=str(x)
>         val='UID'+x+',',
>         st=string.replace(string.join(val,""),' ','')
>         print st,
> ==========================================================
> 
> The output that this script produces is 
> 
> UID0, UID1, UID2, UID3, UID4, UID5, UID6, UID7, UID8, UID9, UID10,
> UID11, UID12, UID13, UID14, UID15, UID16, UID17, UID18, UID19, 
UID20,
> UID21, UID22, UID23, UID24,
> 
> 
> Notice the spaces between the , and the UID
> ============================================
> I need to get rid of these spaces.How do i do it..
> 
> Thanks
> 

that's because you use "print x," the coma does it... either use 
sys.stdout.write() or prepeare the entire string and print it later 
i.e. store all your ids and join the list afetwards.

uids = []
for x in range(MIN,MAX):
    	uids.append("UID%d" % x)
print ','.join(uids)

or with map & lambda:
print ','.join(map(lambda x, "UID%d", range(MIN,MAX)))

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From zihong at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  9 15:40:55 2002
From: zihong at earthlink.net (Zihong Lu)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:40:55 GMT
Subject: win32 extension: rare PythonService problem
Message-ID: <rrui8.2150$P4.203427@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I have run into a rare case, wonder if it happened to anyone before.

I use the win32 extension PythonService to write a windows service for our
project.  The service runs fine on most NT, win2k machines.  Recently our
customers reported that for some PCs, the command "python MyService.py
start" returned as usual, no traceback, but the service did not start at
all.  When I looked into it, I found that the constructor __init__ of the
top class MyService(derived from win32serviceutil.ServiceFramework)  did not
get called at all, not to mention the function SvcDoRun() was not called.
So it excluded the possibility that our application functions had problem.


The environments are:

Python version: 2.1.1
win32 extension: win32all-145.exe from
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html
OS: NT (with service pack 6), win2k (with service pack 2)
hardware: Intel celeron, 128 MB ram.  (I am not sure if they are related,
but I did see 2 celeron machines ran into this problem, put them here just
in case)

Can someone please tell me what went wrong in these cases?  Thanks in
advance.

-Zihong





From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Wed Mar 13 12:53:50 2002
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 12:53:50 -0500
Subject: Why I think range is a wart.
In-Reply-To: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <t1w8z8wqrpt.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> writes:

> For starters, range (and xrange) is a perfectly sensible, reasonable and
> useful built-in. But the biggest use I make of it is in iterating through
> a list, e.g. as in
> 
> for index in range(len(mylist)):
>     <whatever>
> 
> and in the <whatever> body I need to make use of the indexes. I am not
> sufficiently qualified to say if this is Pythonic or not, but I find
> myself doing this quite often.

I don't understand how range is a reasonable and useful built-in if
this use is not.  

If you have a list [2, 3, 5, 7, 11] and you want to iterate through it
you don't need range:

for item in list: 
  <work on items>

If, on the other hand, you want to iterate though the indicies of said
list rather than the items themselves you need to come up with some
way to generate a zero based list of integers up to one less than the
size of the list (i.e. a list of indicies).  When you create this list
you aren't doubling information that the list already has.  A list
does not contain a list of indicies into itself.  The list knows its
elements, in order, and how many elements it has.  From this you can
generate a list of indicies, but there are no 'keys' stored in a list
object like there are in a dictionary.

To go from the information that is stored in the list (an ordered list
of elements, and the size of said list) to the information you need to
iterate through indicies (an ordered sequence of indicies valid for the
given list) you need to take the length of the list (N), and create a
new list of N integers from 0 to N-1.  'range(len(mylist))' says
precisely that.  I don't see how this is the least bit kludgey.

.keys() and .items() methods on lists seem odd to me.  That is
inforamtion that the list does not contain.  Sure it can easily be
generated given information the list does contain, but why can't the
programmer generate it himself from the same information?

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
Is Peal Better Than Python?
No, no.  Quicker, easier, more seductive.



From jcromwell at ciena.com  Sat Mar 16 12:29:53 2002
From: jcromwell at ciena.com (Cromwell, Jeremy)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:29:53 -0800
Subject: Help Required
Message-ID: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B0024D@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>

Like the others, I'd like to see the code, but I'll take a shot at your
problem.  I'm guessing that your problem is printing.  Here's an example I
created using the interpreter that might help.

>>> uid1 = 'user1'
>>> uid2 = 'user2'
>>> uid3 = 'user3'
>>> print uid1,uid2,uid3
user1 user2 user3
>>> print uid1, uid2, uid3
user1 user2 user3
>>> print uid1   ,         uid2    ,       uid3
user1 user2 user3
>>> print uid1+uid2+uid3
user1user2user3
>>> print "%s,%s,%s" % (uid1,uid2,uid3)
user1,user2,user3
>>> print "%s%s%s" % (uid1,uid2,uid3)
user1user2user3
>>> print "%s, %s, %s" % (uid1,uid2,uid3)
user1, user2, user3
>>> print ",".join((uid1,uid2,uid3))
user1,user2,user3
>>> print ", ".join((uid1,uid2,uid3))
user1, user2, user3
>>> print "".join((uid1,uid2,uid3))
user1user2user3
>>> ids = uid1,uid2,uid3
>>> print ids
('user1', 'user2', 'user3')
>>> type(ids)
<type 'tuple'>
>>> ids = uid1+uid2+uid3
>>> print ids
user1user2user3
>>> type(ids)
<type 'str'>
>>> ids = "%s, %s, %s" % (uid1,uid2,uid3)
>>> print ids
user1, user2, user3
>>> type(ids)
<type 'str'>
>>> ids = ",".join((uid1,uid2,uid3))
>>> print ids
user1,user2,user3
>>> type(ids)
<type 'str'>

Hope this helps.
-Jeremy Cromwell

-----Original Message-----
From: surajsub at netscape.net [mailto:surajsub at netscape.net]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:25 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Help Required


Hi,
I am a newbie to Python and am pretty fascinated by it power and
speed.I am however puzzled in trying to write this script.
The script builds a list of userids to be fed to ldap and it is
supposed to be

uid1,uid2,uid3....and so on.( Notice there is no space)

However when i am trying to create the uid list it gives

uid1, uid2, uid3,...and so on.
how do i get rid of this leading space if u would call it..
string.lstrip does not work either.

what am i doing wrong?
TIA
Suraj
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From prouleau at impathnetworks.com  Tue Mar 12 13:08:30 2002
From: prouleau at impathnetworks.com (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:08:30 -0500
Subject: Can we use print to print to more than sys.stdout?
Message-ID: <3C8E441E.4D64C8DA@impathnetworks.com>

#1) Is it possible to change print behavior to make it print to several
streams?

I know it is possible to change the stream where print prints by
changing the value of sys.stdout, like this:

import sys
f = open('somefile', 'w')
sys.stdout = f
print 'whatever to that file'
f.close()
#then restore stdout
sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__

But is it possible, for example, to make it print both to stdout *and*
some file?


#2)
Is it also possible to define an object that would behave like a file
and that would do the printing itself to wherever required?


Thanks!

Pierre Rouleau



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Mar 14 05:40:57 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:57 +0100
Subject: Is Python an object based programming langauge?
References: <f240ab4a.0203110731.3e5bec3c@posting.google.com> <a6nifr$eob$1@news.hccnet.nl> <a6ovtn$ged$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a6puqr$e33$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 14 Mar 2002 01:55:03 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>Sorry, but that is not true of Delphi. Did you ever work Delphi from
>the command line? You can easily write console apps that do not use GUI windows:
>---
> [17:10] V:\Dwk\bare>type bare.dpr
> program bare;
> {$APPTYPE CONSOLE}
> uses sysutils;
> begin
>   Writeln('Hello World ;-)')
> end.

>From the Delphi IV docs of a similar (console program):
<start quote>
Aside from its simplicity, this example differs in several important
ways from programs that you are likely to write with Delphi. First, it
is a console application. Delphi is typically used to write Windows
applications with graphical interfaces; hence, in a Delphi application
you would not ordinarily call Writeln. Moreover, the entire example
program (save for Writeln) is in a single file. In a Delphi
application, the program heading?the first line of the example?would
be placed in a separate project file that would not contain any of the
actual application logic, other than a few calls to methods defined in
unit files.
<end quote)

>Well, please don't add to the confusion about Delphi's capabilities ;-)
>You could put someone off that might like it ;-)

Well I like Delphi myself and I don't want to put anyone off!
However I just wanted to state that its very unnatural in Delphi to
write a console app. For example open the IDE and click

file-new-

and then try to click on something that starts a new console
application -). 

I do not want to criticize Delphi, I do want to state that object
oriented programming can be so tightly coupled to GUI style program
design that it can give the (false) impression that GUI style program
design and OOP are unavoidably connected.

Anton.


From cyberlync at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 18:06:03 2002
From: cyberlync at yahoo.com (Eric Merritt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:06:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C-API, Tuple return value refcounts
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020330230603.83615.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello All,

 I have searched the archives fairly well and not
found an answer to this question, so I thought I would
post it to the list. I believe that this question
stems, to some extent, from a lack of understanding
concerning the reference counting system, so please
keep that in mind when you answer. 

I am using the C-API to interface with a library
function. Its a fairly simple interface in that it
makes a call and returns a PyTuple to the calling
process. It make no use of borrowed references. My
question is this; 

When I return the new tuple type, 

1) Do I need to increment the reference count before I
return it (Keeping in mind that the tuple type is not
reference out side of this function, it is simply a
return value). 

2) Do the PyObject values that make up the tuple type
need their reference counts incremented?. 

In the above case I do not believe that they need to
be incremented. Because according to the documentation
the reference counts are incremented automatically
when the PyObjects are created using the built in api
functions. This, of course, creates another couple of
questions. 

1) Do I need to decref the tuple before it is
returned?

2) Do I need to decref the objects comprising the
tuple?


I truly hope this question is not considered list
clutter I have done my best to research the answers
before I posted, but I am uncomfortable with my
current understanding in this regard.

Thank you,
Eric

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Mar 26 10:05:19 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 10:05:19 -0500
Subject: Optimizations (was Re: reduce vs. for loop)
References: <mailman.1017129288.16453.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7q2nf$31b$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1017129288.16453.python-list at python.org>,
 <m2 at plusseven.com> wrote:
>
>Just out curiosity, 
>why is fact2 a bit faster than fact1?
>
>def fact1(n):
>    return reduce (operator.mul, range(1L,n + 1))
>
>def fact2(n):
>    result = n * 1L
>    for i in range(1 , n):
>        result *= i
>    return result

Try this:

def fact3(n):
    mul = operator.mul
    return reduce(mul, range(1L, n+1) )

But pay attention to my .sig below.....
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Wed Mar 13 19:16:56 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:16:56 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
In-Reply-To: <3C8FF468.408183B2@engcorp.com>
References: <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <b03e80d.0203130017.17f47309@posting.google.com> <m3y9gwq2sb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3C8F1D74.10802@mxm.dk> <20020313092857.4765dd0d.logiplexsoftware@earthlink.net> <mailman.1016045632.17813.python-list@python.org> <3C8FF468.408183B2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20020314001655.GA652@lilith.hqd-internal>

Le 13/03/02 ? 19:52, Peter Hansen ?crivit:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > 
> > There are plenty of free C compilers for Windows: mingw, Borland,
> > lcc-win32. lcc-win32 even comes with an IDE.
> > 
> > If you dig long enough on the Microsoft site, you can (at least you
> > could at one time) even download a commandline version of the MS
> > compiler. 
> 
> As best I recall, that version is wholly unsuitable for real production
> use.  I believe it is the version without optimization (not the
> "professional" edition) and the code it produces, when last I looked,
> is _significantly_ larger and slower than the real version.
> 
> Okay for hacking, not for shipping.

You're of course right. Has anybody tried their .NET SDK, yet. Does it contain
a usable commandline version of VC++7?

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 8.8 ?C      Wind: 2.9 m/s



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  8 08:03:18 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:03:18 -0600
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081030500.3722-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEHJOCAA.tim@zope.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.30.0203081030500.3722-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <15496.46742.14715.837893@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Roman> Just one comment about

    Roman>   PEP 270 - uniq method for list objects

    Roman> maybe adding dict <-> list conversion functions will make this
    Roman> automatically?

Nothing new is necessary since 2.2 was released:

    >>> mylist = [1,2,3,5,6,6,9,9,1,2,3,4]
    >>> mydict = dict(zip(mylist,mylist))
    >>> mydict
    {1: 1, 2: 2, 3: 3, 4: 4, 5: 5, 6: 6, 9: 9}
    >>> mydict.values()
    [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9]

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Mar 23 16:20:11 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 13:20:11 -0800
Subject: simple question
References: <mailman.1016825146.27883.python-list@python.org> <2UVm8.30655$J54.1855090@news1.west.cox.net> <mailman.1016868517.25439.python-list@python.org> <qh1n8.45972$2q2.4038976@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203231320.c6a67bf@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<qh1n8.45972$2q2.4038976 at bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...
> "Christopher Palmer" <ctp at ctpdesign.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1016868517.25439.python-list at python.org...
> 
> > Let's say I have a variable called a
> 
> Actually, you have a name 'a'.
> 
> > and a contains an integer, say 4522
> 
> and the name is bound to an int, conventionally written 4522.
> 
> > and I want 4, 5, 2, and 2 to be items in a list instead of an
> integer...
> 
> Do you want the list to contain 4 ints (answer given by Johann as:
>   map(int, str(a))
> ) or 4 digits:
>   ''.split(str(a))
> ?
> 
> Terry J. Reedy

I see no 4 digits here. Following are some results of actually RUNNING
some code at the Python command line (version 2.2, Win32):

OP's sample input:
>>> a = 4522

Your suggestion:
>>> ''.split(str(a))
['']

What you probably meant:
>>> str(a).split('')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: empty separator

One possible working solution:
>>> list(str(a))
['4', '5', '2', '2']


From tismer at tismer.com  Tue Mar  5 04:26:30 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:26:30 +0100
Subject: Stackless Platform Independence?
References: <mailman.1014420937.15379.python-list@python.org> <I7Qd8.66687$dG.27729291@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <a5tnrn$ci2$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C829AA2.1B21E205@arakne.com> <a5utbu$gn6$1@panix2.panix.com> <3C838150.97A86F52@arakne.com> <mailman.1015252028.21292.python-list@python.org> <7xzo1om5wt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3C848F46.7000804@tismer.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> writes:
> 
>>Makes pretty much sense to me.
>>Stackless can provide light-weight threads to all platforms.
>>There is no need to use OS threads unless you need it
>>for I/O.
>>
> 
> Do you think it's feasible to modify Python to use non-blocking i/o
> everywhere, and then simulate blocking in Stackless?  I.e. when a
> microthread does an i/o operation, Python would start the operation
> asynchronously, and the Stackless microthread scheduler would block
> the microthread til the i/o operation actually completes (detected
> using select or SIGIO).


This is roughly how I understood Frederic's idea.

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
      where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Mar 13 16:55:11 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 21:55:11 GMT
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
References: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1015975410.16398.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6ohrv$cfl$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:24:40 -0500, "Clark C . Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:

>On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 09:50:58AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>| Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?
>
>I would suggest that this is done via indentation, like
>YAML.  With indentation you don't need to have an end 
>delimiter.
>
Unless you want the option of excluding the last EOL.
For line-oriented stuff it would be nice though, especially
for doc string readability. Actually a blank leading line
is not bad when you print a big doc string anyway...

Thanks for making me aware of YAML.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Mar  6 22:07:57 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 19:07:57 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015439892.7298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203061907.3c2705b2@posting.google.com>

"Bjorn Pettersen" <BPettersen at NAREX.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1015439892.7298.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu] 
> > Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
> 
> Thanks for writing the PEP.
> 
> I see this as a general proposal for a range syntax, and I disagree with
> it because:
> 
>   - it doesn't handle the general range issues, i.e. step value,
>     and if we had to add yet another syntax to get general ranges
>     it would be too confusing.

Agreed. Let's generalize the existing syntax.

Existing: for <var> in <sequence>:

Proposal: For a splendid blast from the past, let's take a leaf out of
ALGOL 60's book.

for <var> in <for-list>:

where the elements of <for list> can be of 3 different kinds:

(1) <arithmetic expression>
(2) <step-until-element> ::= <start-value> [step <step-value>] until
<last-value>
(3) <while-element> ::= <arithmetic expression> while <boolean
expression>

Lets you do things like

for k in 0,1,2, 5 step 5 until 25, k * 2 while k <=1024:

> 
>   - I would like range objects to be first class, ie. I would want
>     to be able to pass ranges to functions, return them from 
>     functions, and do all the other things one can do with first
>     class objects.

I don't understand this. range and xrange *are* first-class objects.
You can do all of those things.

> 
>   - It doesn't make the general case trivial, i.e. 
>     for 0 <= i < len(mySequence) is not much better than 
>     for i in range(len(mySequence) and is more verbose than
>     for i in len(mySequence).
> 

for i in 0, i+1 while i < len(mySequence):

for i in 0 until len(mySequence) - 1: 

Hmmm, ... maybe not.


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Mar  1 13:44:31 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:44:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Swapping out sys.stdout globally
In-Reply-To: <15487.41982.968248.121857@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203011331510.4998-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>     Kevin> sys.stdout = NewFile()
>     Kevin> sys.stderr = NewFile()
>
>     Kevin> However, I have some logging routines in a separate package that
>     Kevin> already have their own references to sys.stdout and sys.stderr
>     Kevin> which are unaffected by this.
>
> Sounds like they use something like
>
>     from sys import stdout,stderr
>
> The best solution there would be for those packages to import sys in the
> usual fashion:
>
>     import sys
>
> and refer to sys.stdout & sys.stderr.
>


Skip's advice is sound.

However, if there's some reason you can't do that, if you're on unix
then you can use posix.close, posix.open & posix.dup2 to redirect
the posix file underneath the python file object.

Something like:

new_file = open( file, 'w' )
fd = sys.stdout.fileno()
os.close(fd)
os.dup2( new_file.fileno(), fd )

Don't use sys.stdout.close(), because it will mark the Python file
object as closed. os.close() closes the real os file but doesn't
mark the python file object as closed.


-- Steve Majewski





From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Mar 29 00:46:19 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:46:19 GMT
Subject: Python & Poetry <was Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! ...(Mar 26)>
References: <5515F24370BCB753.DA7CF91464346EF6.E3A577CFA6882D82@lp.airnews.net> <j2m1au4se21mc222877l06690vei117jc3@4ax.com> <3CA123ED.805A2B72@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <ddh2auglg1r3hov1f2kahiia6ooikr1gtt@4ax.com> <mailman.1017202424.29315.python-list@python.org> <kpo3auc257mf1ta85jqb68u9edk030aah1@4ax.com> <mailman.1017255224.10677.python-list@python.org> <7396d2b2.0203271554.5a564e1b@posting.google.com> <Xns91E05B80224BMe@167.206.112.134>
Message-ID: <5908au87qfhc7git6mlf7uhq8qnmk829ro@4ax.com>

> The greatest compliment I've ever been paid, was when someone said of my 
> code: "I picked it up, and I knew what it did".

As a youth, one of my great professional prides was writing 100,000
lines of code in a year. Older and wiser now, I now pride myself on
having once reduced someone else's 35,000 line program to about 6,000
lines.

To this day, however, I'm not sure if anyone quite knows what I did. :)

C//



From outros at kyky.zzn.com  Mon Mar  4 11:09:43 2002
From: outros at kyky.zzn.com (Bordeaux Buffet)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:09:43 -0300
Subject: Não Compre... Alugue!
Message-ID: <E16huye-0002si-00@mail.python.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20020304/a03ef7db/attachment.html>

From tejarex at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 17:15:48 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:15:48 GMT
Subject: problems with circular references
References: <a7tbd4$qc7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <owro8.110380$Gf.10489486@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"jimh" <jim at jim.jim> wrote in message
news:a7tbd4$qc7$1 at web1.cup.hp.com...
> I am working on python code that consist of quite a few files (about
50;
> each file contains one class).  All errors returned by functions are
numeric
> and are defined in the individual files.  There is a
MessageCatalog.py class
> which will map these numbers into strings.  This MessageCatalog.py
has to
> import all of the 50 other files to have access to their error
numbers.  So
> far, so good - no problems yet.
>
> Here is the problem: Most of these 50 classes need to use the
MessageCatalog
> themselves.  This means, of course, that classA imports
MessageCatalog which
> imports classA.  This doesn't work very well.
>
> Does anyone have ideas on how to deal with this situation?

I would probably follow the standard Python idiom of using exceptions
instead of numeric error codes, and look at standard library modules
for precedents.

Terry J. Reedy





From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar  9 16:35:18 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:35:18 GMT
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
References: <3c8a4042.46048234@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <qevi8.3197$bK5.1356@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

So I take it you're a fan of bf as well?

http://home.wxs.nl/~faase009/Ha_bf_inter.html






From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar 12 16:23:33 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:23:33 +0100
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> <m3adtdbjbz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3c8e74d9$1_3@news.bluewin.ch>

Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
m3adtdbjbz.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Samuele Pedroni" <pedronis at bluewin.ch> writes:
>
> > And what datapoints we acquire through the article?
>
> I think the article states a number of facts properly:
>

properly? YMMV. You have restated and read them
properly <wink>.

regards.




From mmillikan at vfa.com  Wed Mar  6 08:46:20 2002
From: mmillikan at vfa.com (mmillikan at vfa.com)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 08:46:20 -0500
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
References: <vcfh8.405$tL.70@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3czdq05v.fsf@vfa.com>

Note that the <func_code> object is shared by each of the inner
<function> objects:

text = "random text"
def function():
    def attribute( bindNow = text):
        print bindNow
    function.attribute = attribute

Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

>>> function()
>>> function.attribute()
random text
>>> function.attribute
<function attribute at 01A7930C>
>>> function.attribute.func_code
<code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\\python-YYAS0o", line 3>

>>> function()
>>> function.attribute.func_code
<code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\python-YYAS0o", line 3>

>>> text = 'new random text'
>>> function()
>>> function.attribute
<function attribute at 01A450CC>
>>> function.attribute.func_code
<code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\python-YYAS0o", line 3>

Mark Millikan


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Mar 29 12:18:54 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:18:54 -0500
Subject: Default arg for dict() (was Re: Sorting distionary by value)
References: <slrna9lqj1.9n1.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <Xns91D959AD8727Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <slrna9m5sc.ai9.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net> <a7u221$2hqj$1@news.idiom.com> <3CA295CC.9682E2DB@engcorp.com> <slrnaa6b9s.bed.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0203281230.a5d2d93@posting.google.com> <hpNo8.6269$Ou.4347@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <c76ff6fc.0203281829.6e2cf785@posting.google.com> <0_Zo8.16784$Ou.11910@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <mailman.1017410389.28258.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vm1p8.22532$Ou.9802@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017410389.28258.python-list at python.org...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
[...]
> >
> > However, Bength Richers suggestion:
> >
> > > empty_dict_with_default = {:default}
> > > with_one_key_value_pair = {:default, key:value}
> > >
> > > A little tweak in the grammar might do it?
> >
> > might well suffice, and wouldn't require huge changes to the grammar.
>
> But do we REALLY need it?  Another new semantic feature, another altered
> basic behavior.  Python is so cool because it is compact (linguistically)
> and easy to grasp.  Each new use of punctuation makes it more complex and
> Perl-like.
>
Well, I'm against many changes to the language precisely because of the
code-breakage they induce. In this particular case, however, it appears to
me that the change is totally backwards-compatible because a dictionary
literal constructor with no default value stays the same, so no code
breakage would result.

> Writing a class to simulate a dictionary with default value is simple,
> and left as an exercise for the reader :-)

I agree it's possible. Of course, we could even write a Python interpreter
in Python if we wanted to. Then there'd be no need for the interpreter
either...

vanishing-up-my-own-orifice-ly y'rs  - steve






From borcis at geneva-link.ch  Sat Mar 23 07:51:13 2002
From: borcis at geneva-link.ch (Boris^2)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:51:13 +0100
Subject: New SIG on logic/CLP programming in Python
References: <slrna9mrbk.1fj.nico@aries.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <3C9C7A41.9F84992E@geneva-link.ch>

Nicolas Chauvat wrote:
> 
> Now, what if you need logical programming? Use pyprolog. And copy
> your data back-and-forth from prolog-space to python space. Or look
> at Mozart/Oz. Yeah, it's all there too: procedure, functions, objects,
> concurrency, logic, constraint-propagation, even distribution and
> security.
> 
> Right, but the syntax is... difficult.

Rather. And makes one wonder if the way to go would not be to compile
python source syntax to the Oz or Erlang VM... while adding to it
something in the way Screamer adds to Common Lisp. (Erlang has a nice
syntax, BTW).

Another thing I am missing in python is Prolog-type metaprogramming
and/or lisp-type macro; first step would be S-expressions; the closest
python provides are the syntax trees from the parser module, but...
well, they really don't provide a similar facility. Now what about
defining a two-way translation to a syntax Lisp or Scheme systems could
read as S-expressions that could then be intelligently manipulated
by lisp-technology macros ?

> I am looking for interested people to form a Logic-SIG or CLP-SIG.

Count me in, especially for useless commenting :)

Regards,

Boris Borcic
--
Python >>> filter(lambda W : W not in "ILLITERATE","BULLSHIT")


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 18:35:06 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:35:06 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <eppstein-BB3186.08413106032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d4bj.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <eppstein-07CB42.14230206032002@news.service.uci.edu> <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-C370A2.15350606032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrna8d8ej.utc.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
 Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

> I fail to see how it is is greader readability or understanding when the
> current method is both.

I diagree that the current method has both, or either.  I don't know 
about you, but I find "for x in range(n-1,-1,-1)" to be a difficult to 
read and difficult to understand way of obfuscating a simple loop over 
the numbers 0 to n-1 in reverse order.  I think "for n > x >= 0" would 
be much simpler.


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Thu Mar 28 17:44:48 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:44:48 -0600
Subject: mutliple search and replace
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F0632301D689F7@SRM201002>

> 
> hey Gustavo,
> 
> actually i wished to do the replacement in one sweep and 
> occuring in any
> order.. to avoid problems.. is it easy?
> 
> cheers
> 

Hmmm... it becomes a bit more complicated.
Say, you have this huge string:

>>> HugeString = """ ... lotsa text ..."""

And, your dictionary with search items and replacements:

>>> ReplacementsDict = { "find":"replace", ... }

So, you need to find *any* key, so you can use a regexp:

>>> import re
>>> rxFindKey = re.compile("|".join(ReplacementsDict.keys()), re.S)

To do all the replacements. just do a loop:

>>> match = rxFindKey.search(HugeString)
>>> while match:
...     found = match.group(0)
...     HugeString = HugeString.replace(found, ReplacementsDict[found])
...     match = rxFindKey.search(HugeString)

So, after the loop, you've got all that done.

Good luck!

-gustavo



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 10:03:34 2002
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 09:03:34 -0600
Subject: Java and Python for embedded applications (was: Java and Python)
References: <3C96DBB4.6040109@pobox.com> <3C981961.9F5E5383@engcorp.com> <3C982EDA.2050408@pobox.com> <3C9836B8.150B4DA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7F4A1C2050937632.B0420410CEF7D39A.B15EB10EEC873652@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3C9836B8.150B4DA at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
		[lots of other
		entirely reasonable
		stuff]
			.
			.
>If by "embedded" you mean truly embedded systems, with 
>microcontrollers in dedicated-purpose systems and generally 
>limited user interfaces, Python is somewhat less suitable
>than Java, since there are the KVM and similar Java variants
>focussed specifically in this area.  Python is in use in
>some PC104-based embedded systems (that's what we use it 
>for in the embedded area) and has also been ported (in
>early forms) to the Palm Pilot, for example.  The language
>itself is perhaps slightly less effective for embedded
>systems in some respects, because it is higher level than
>Java.  If your constraint is performance and code size,
>Java might be better (but then, C might be much much
>better...) whereas if development time and cost is the
>constraint, Python may well be the winner.  (This is 
			.
			.
			.
I'm unconvinced about even the mild Java-is-smaller-and-faster claim.
While I don't keep up with embedded Java now, there certainly have
been times in the recent past when its start-of-the-art has been ...
disappointing in these regards.  Python was competitive, and sometimes
better.

If you like Python's productivity, but put a premium on performance
and code size, several alternative languages might give more satis-
faction.  I expect to be presenting Lua in this context over the next
few months.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu  Wed Mar 13 10:19:15 2002
From: hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu (Paul Hughett)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 15:19:15 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com> <a6lknu$8je$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <p30t8uoor948elt8n2huqdk4qlvkq880fn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a6nqlj$c5k$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

Martin Kaufmann <martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> wrote:
: On 12 Mar 2002 19:25:50 GMT, Paul Hughett
: <hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu> wrote:

:>         http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/bbl/bblimage

: Thanks, I had a look at the [bblimage] webpage. It really looks interesting 
: to me. But the basic calculations really faster than the one in SciPy or
: Scientific Python?

The calculations in bblimage are probably about as fast as you can
make them without dropping into assembly and hand-tweaking for a
particular architecture.  I haven't looked much at SciPy, and don't
know how much effort they've put into performance and how the speed
compares.


:>It really depends on how many diffraction patterns you need to do.  It
:>doesn't make sense to spent two months learning C to save even 99% of
:>a ten-hour computation that you're going to do only once.  (Unless
:>your real purpose is to learn C.)  On the other hand. if you have to
:>do a few hundred patterns, then it might be a good investment of time.

: I will have to do it several times I guess... So 99% improvement in
: speed would really be nice.

I choose 99% above to make the point that even huge improvements don't
matter much for a job you're running only once.  A 10x improvement would
be more typical for a Python-to-C conversion.


: How do you glue C and Python together? Do you use any of the wrappers
: (SWIG, weave etc.) or do you do it the hard way? I just didn't
: understand the whole story about these PyObjects.

I did it the hard way, because that lets me modify to Python interface
to take advantage of Python's features and be cleaner and easier to
use than the C interface.

:>One general comment: The performance killer in many applications like
:>this is doing the innermost loop in the interpreted language (Python,
:>Matlab, etc).  If you can recast your algorithm as operations on
:>arrays rather than individual numbers, and your language does the
:>implicit loops over the elements efficiently, you typically get 10x or
:>so improvements in speed.  

: Do you mean the array calculation of NumPy?

Yes.  The loop over elements in NumPy is done in C (as far as I know)
rather than in Python, so you get that 10x speedup I mentioned above.


\begin{heresy} 

Have you considered doing this in Matlab, or its open-source clone
Octave?  Based on what little I know of your problem, it would seem
quite well suited, since it already has efficient arrays, complex
numbers, and FFTs embedded in a scripting language.

\end{heresey}


Paul Hughett


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Fri Mar 15 16:09:01 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 21:09:01 GMT
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net> <u94n0p932q6j12@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrna94l6t.bv.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

John Roth wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Putting something into the start menu is dead easy.

No, it isn't, unless you're only targetting one particular
localization of one particular flavour of Windows.

> Just put a link to the appropriate file into "c:Windows/Start
> Menu/Programs"

No. Frankly, such "installers" suck ***. There are appropriate Windows
API functions and registry keys to determine to directory to install
the start menu items in.

> Putting an icon on the desktop is a bit more difficult. AFIK, that
> has to go into the registry,

Depends.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Mar 13 03:21:30 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:21:30 GMT
Subject: zlib vulnerabilities and python
References: <SASl3IAyAUj8EwS4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e_Dj8.31522$l93.6228619@newsb.telia.net>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Does the recent zlib double free vulnerability
>
> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-857008.html
>
> impact zlib.pyd?

only if the guys implementing your C library decided to inter-
pret "undefined behaviour" as "force the operating system to
run code designed to take over the computer".

dunno about MSVC; the CRT documentation only says that
things like this may "cause errors".

</F>




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 15:04:58 2002
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:04:58 +0000
Subject: Python on Windows soon forbidden by Micro$oft?
References: <a6hskc$7i6$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C7C92.9C10A0B2@earthlink.net> <a6huuu$au9$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3C8C82D3.CA4220CA@earthlink.net> <slrna8p159.riu.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E@engcorp.com> <924j8.19297$N7.4387774@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8q3fa.1vg.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:28:05 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>In article <3C8CAA83.9EBBC03E at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Tim Hammerquist wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't you know? Microsoft invented Open Source!  ;)
>> 
>> No, that was Al Gore!
>
>Ya know, I've actually read the transcript of that interview.
>He never claimed to have invented the Internet, only to have
>been responsible for funding it.

Of course Gore didn't invent the Internet. Everyone knows Microsoft 
did that. They also invented the web browser, the symbolic link, and 
robust multi-tasking operating systems.

-- 
<"><"><"> Philip Hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <"><"><">
"I would guess that he really believes whatever is politically 
advantageous for him to believe." 
                        -- Alison Brooks, referring to Michael
                              Portillo, on soc.history.what-if


From selectfincon at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 13:55:21 2002
From: selectfincon at yahoo.com (Jim)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 10:55:21 -0800
Subject: python shell
References: <edd9bc66.0203141851.535c1e20@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016161526.19809.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <edd9bc66.0203161055.41286623@posting.google.com>

Thanks Gerhard,


     I set the compatiblity to win 98 in the properties. Now the
shell exits properly. Although at some point it would be nice
to have this work under win xp mode without the compatiblity fix.

Rgds,
Jim

Gerhard H?ring <gh_pythonlist at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016161526.19809.python-list at python.org>...
> * Jim <selectfincon at yahoo.com> [2002-03-14 18:51 -0800]:
> > When I try to exit the python shell under windows XP
> > it hangs. Is there some trick to this?
>  
> Does this only happen if you start python from the start menu, but not when you
> start it from a command prompt? If the answer to this question is yes, then you
> can edit the shortcut to python.exe in the start menu. There should be a
> checkbox "keep terminal window open after application has finished" or some
> such.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Gerhard


From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Mar 26 16:42:55 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:42:55 +0100
Subject: xml config file to python object
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.26.22.42.54.656285.2901@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

What is the easiest way to parse a xml config file to a
python object.

I would like to parse
<myconfig>
 <foo>2</foo>
 <bar>sun</bar>
 <bar>moon</bar>
</myconfig>

to this:
obj={'myconfig': [
      { 'foo' : '2' }
      { 'bar' : ['sun', 'moon']}
      ]
     }

I did it this weekend with a sax parser.

Is there a way to pickle (serialize) any python object
to xml and back?

After using the sax parser I asked myself why not use
a python file for the configuration? It is much easier.

 thomas


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Mar 19 20:43:33 2002
From: nospam at nospam.com (Nigel-Fi)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:43:33 -0500
Subject: Passing command line arguments when debugging with IDLE
Message-ID: <a78peu$ldd$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

A newbe question from someone more familiar with devstudio type
environments...

I have a python program which takes command line arguments and i'd like to
debug it with IDLE but I cant see how to specify them when I open the py
file or run it within IDLE.

thanks and regards,




From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 20:54:53 2002
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 17:54:53 -0800
Subject: ANN: Logging Module v0.4 released
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0203201754.50a15e80@posting.google.com>

A new version of the proposed Python standard logging module (as per
PEP 282) has been released. You can get all the information from

http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html

There is a download link at the top of that page, and there is quite a
lot of new stuff including syslog and NT event log support, support
for user defined levels and more!

As always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
patches and suggestions for improvement).

Cheers

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.

Changes since the last version:
=================================
Added level filtering for handlers.
Return root logger if no name specified in getLogger.
Added distutils setup.py script.
Added formatter initialization in Handler.__init__.
Tidied up docstrings.
Added removeHandler to Logger.
Added removeFilter to Logger and Handler.
logrecv.py modified to keep connection alive until client closes it.
SocketHandler modified to not reset connection after each logging
event.
Added shutdown function which closes open sockets, etc.
Renamed DEFAULT_LOGGING_PORT->DEFAULT_TCP_LOGGING_PORT.
Added DEFAULT_UDP_LOGGING_PORT.
Added log_test4.py (example of arbitrary levels).
Added addLevelName, changed behaviour of getLevelName.
Fixed bugs in DatagramHandler.
Added SMTPHandler implementation.
Added log_test5.py to test SMTPHandler.
Added SysLogHandler (contribution from Nicolas Untz based on Sam
Rushing's syslog.py).
Modified log_test1.py to add a SysLogHandler.
Added rollover functionality to FileHandler.
Added NTEventLogHandler (based on Win32 extensions).
Added MemoryHandler implementation.
Added log_test7.py to test MemoryHandler.
Added log_test8.py to test FileHandler rollover.
Added logException method to Logger.
Added formatException method to Formatter.
Added log_test6.py to test NTEventHandler and logException.
Numerous internal method renamings (sorry - but better to do this now,
rather than when we enter beta status).


From krissepu at vip.fi  Thu Mar 14 06:34:12 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (pekka niiranen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:34:12 GMT
Subject: Hexadecimal bytes to integers
Message-ID: <3C908ADF.7040009@vip.fi>

How can I convert messages below to list of bytes:

message = 0x01040000000271
or
message = 0104000000A271
to
m = [0,1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,'A',2,7,1]

so that I can calculate:

a = 255
for byte in m:
        t = a ^ byte



-pekka-



From cce at clarkevans.com  Wed Mar 13 15:34:00 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:34:00 -0500
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
In-Reply-To: <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>; from *@spam.ruud.org on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 11:34:55AM -0500
References: <ltsu8us0qdsj6r8oersrac465589ot644c@4ax.com> <a6nu3f$31s$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <873cz44ea8.fsf@bunty.ruud.org>
Message-ID: <20020313153400.A6229@doublegemini.com>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 11:34:55AM -0500, ruud de rooij wrote:
| perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those operations
| (analogous to dictionaries).

Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
consistent, and quite elegant.

Best,

Clark



From aahzpy at panix.com  Sat Mar 23 02:24:22 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Mar 2002 02:24:22 -0500
Subject: import * considered harmful (was Re: circular imports (don't yell!))
References: <mailman.1016860656.32479.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7haj6$4tg$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1016860656.32479.python-list at python.org>,
Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at attbi.com> wrote:
>
>in his defense, the gui libs often expect you have done a from X import *. 
>otherwise your commands are fiendishly long and ugly.
>
>win = gui.create_window(gui.top_level, gui.foo, gui.bar)

So do this instead:

    from X import create_window, top_level, foo, bar

Trust me, you really prefer this.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From arthur.siegel at rsmi.com  Sat Mar 16 22:53:22 2002
From: arthur.siegel at rsmi.com (arthur.siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:53:22 -0500
Subject: return type question - operator oveloading
Message-ID: <OF8ABB8303.B1E541A5-ON85256B7F.0013E4F9@RSMi.com>

But

>>> complex(4,5)*7
(28+35j)
>>> 7*complex(4,5)
(28+35j)
>>> complex(4,5)+7
(11+5j)
>>> 7+complex(4,5)
(11+5j)

And

>>> int(4).__add__(complex(3,4))
NotImplemented
>>> int(4).__mul__(complex(3,4))
NotImplemented
>>> complex(3,4).__add__(4)
NotImplemented
>>> complex(3,4).__mul__(4)
NotImplemented

Not sure what it really means at a deeper level, but it does
seem the implementation on multiply and add for complex with int *is*
fully symetrical.

still ?

Art

>>arthur.siegel at rsmi.com wrote in
>>news:mailman.1016322689.22392.python-list at python.org:
>> But:
>>
>> print type(7 + Complex(5,4))
>>><type 'complex'>

chirs-
>yes i get the same results (py 2.2).

art
>> Multiple choice:
>>   That the result at But is a surprise to me because I am missing:
>>       1)Something obvious about __radd__ or general classic syntax
>>       2)Something related to new style classes
>>       3)Other

chris -
>i vote for "3) Other". i think the integer class defines __add__ for
>complex numbers but not __mul__ for complex numbers. thus when adding
>"7+Complex(5,4)" your __radd__ is never called cause the int class
>indles it.







From brian at zope.com  Fri Mar  1 13:54:30 2002
From: brian at zope.com (Brian Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:54:30 -0500
Subject: Embedding Python in C#...
Message-ID: <NEBBKMOOINLOHMJBOMPIIEJOCCAA.brian@zope.com>

> >has this been done?
> 
> Not that I know of.
> 
> >is it even possible?
> 
> I am pretty sure, yes.

(Sorry I'm a little behind on this...)

Yep - and it's pretty easy (though I'm not totally done yet) :)
It looks something like:

PythonInterpreter python = new PythonInterpreter();
PyModule sys = python.ImportModule("sys");
PyList list = (PyList)sys.GetAttr("path");
Console.WriteLine("Sys.path is: {0}", list.ToString());
Console.WriteLine("Item 0 is: {0}", list[0].ToString());


> >if it has where can i obtain information on doing so?

If you're interested in playing with it in-progress, let 
me know. 


Brian Lloyd        brian at zope.com
Software Engineer  540.361.1716       
Zope Corporation   http://www.zope.com




From grante at visi.com  Tue Mar 19 10:44:28 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:44:28 GMT
Subject: socket programming
References: <mailman.1016480129.2465.python-list@python.org> <a75mqm$nrb$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <PKGl8.11109$Hz2.45237@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <w1Jl8.34875$N7.6270209@ruti.visi.com>

In article <PKGl8.11109$Hz2.45237 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Shimmie wrote:

>> > Anybody know where can i find a good (beginner) tutorial
>> > about Socket Programming using Python ?

> Here is a neat little UDP example:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52302

That is a nice example of UDP usage.

In my experience, when a beginner says he wants to do "socket
programming" he invariable means TCP/IP, so I just wanted to
make sure our beginner friend knows there's a difference.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  You must be a CUB
                                  at               SCOUT!! Have you made your
                               visi.com            MONEY-DROP today??


From darnold02 at sprynet.com  Mon Mar 25 18:51:36 2002
From: darnold02 at sprynet.com (Don Arnold)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:51:36 -0600
Subject: How to get a key from  dictionary?
References: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost>
Message-ID: <009501c1d458$0a5a86c0$3425fea9@0016314730>

>>> targetval = 2
>>> dict = {'aa':1, 'bb':2, 'cc': 3, 'dd': 1}
>>> targetval = 2
>>> for key in dict.keys():
          if dict[key] == targetval:
            print "found", targetval, "at key", key

found 2 at key bb
>>> targetval = 1
>>> for key in dict.keys():
          if dict[key] == targetval:
            print "found", targetval, "at key", key

found 1 at key aa
found 1 at key dd

----- Original Message -----
From: "A" <printers at sendme.cz>
To: <python-list at python.org>; <tutor at python.org>;
<activepython at listserv.activestate.com>; <python-help at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:16 PM
Subject: How to get a key from dictionary?


> Hi,
> Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key according to a
> value ?
> For example
> I have a dictionary
>
> dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}
>
> and
> dict['aa']
> is 1
>
> But how can I for value 1 find out  key? (That is here  'aa')
>
> Thank you for help
> Ladislav
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ActivePython mailing list
> ActivePython at listserv.ActiveState.com
> To unsubscribe: http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/mysubs




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Mar  4 14:50:27 2002
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:50:27 -0800
Subject: Windows GUI - which way?
References: <a5k8t9$hrp$1@news.efn.org> <3C7EC855.5844B19F@engcorp.com> <Pine.GSU.4.21.0203021308260.14311-100000@garcia.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C83D003.411FEE3F@ccvcorp.com>


Spencer Ernest Doidge wrote:

> I want to maintain and use a library of Python scripts. I want to invoke
> any script from this library by using a GUI app. The script itself would
> have no GUI features. It would be sending and receiving serial port
> messages. (This is like the script I am already running.)
>    ....
> If I write the GUI app all in Python, is it a simple matter to, say, load
> and run the script in its own thread, and have it be responsive to a
> signal from the main thread telling it to abort?

The answers to your question depend on whether you intend to design the library
scripts specifically for this purpose, or if you're intending to use
"off-the-shelf" scripts from elsewhere.  If you're able to modify the scripts to
work with your GUI framework, then all of these things are (fairly) easily
possible.  If you want to be able to run *any* script, then things become more
difficult.

In order to abort the script thread, the script needs to check for a condition and
terminate itself -- you can't kill a thread from outside.  If you don't control
the script, then you have no way to ensure that it will do this, of course.  You
*can* do this by running the script in a separate process, though -- it's a more
expensive solution, but you can kill the process if you need to.

Output is no problem in either case -- for threads, simply write your output to a
Queue, and have your GUI read the queue and update a window.  For arbitrary
scripts, you can use popen(), or more likely popen2() or popen3(), which gives you
out-of-process execution and a handle to that script's stdout.

A progress bar would be no problem for the first case, either -- like Peter said,
just have the script post notices to the GUI when you need to update the progress
bar.  I can't think of any practical way to do this for arbitrary scripts, though,
because you have no way of knowing how long they will run, or what stage they are
at.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jcromwell at ciena.com  Sat Mar  2 19:53:10 2002
From: jcromwell at ciena.com (Cromwell, Jeremy)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:53:10 -0800 
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
Message-ID: <FB77A8A317F5D31199F1009027DE4A8701B00227@wntcsdexg01.csd.ciena.com>

If python was to allow "for i in 5:", is there any other meaning that would
be appropriate besides the one detailed in PEP 276?

Without trotting out ugly examples, it is cleaner than many of the current
features in python.  I'm still a relative newbie, but I remember it being a
bit jarring to need to use range() just to iterate through numbers.

It's so simple to explain and understand, that I doubt that it would be
confusing.  Here's my clumsy rewording of the tutorial:

4.3 For x in integer, and the range() Function 
When given an integer rather than a sequence, the for statement iterates
over the numbers from 0 up to (but not including) the given number:

>>> for i in 3:
...     print i, i*3
0, 0
1, 3
2, 6

The given end point is never part of the generated list; for x in 10
iterates through a list of 10 values, exactly the legal indices for items of
a sequence of length 10.

To iterate over the indices of a sequence, use len() as follows: 

>>> a = ['Mary', 'had', 'a', 'little', 'lamb']
>>> for i in len(a):
...     print i, a[i]
... 
0 Mary
1 had
2 a
3 little
4 lamb


If you do need to iterate over a more complex sequence of numbers, the
built-in function range() comes in handy. It generates lists containing
arithmetic progressions.  You supply the start and finish and it produces a
list from start up to finish, incrementing by one:  

>>> range(5, 10)
[5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

It is possible to specify a different increment (even negative; sometimes
this is called the `step'): 

>>> range(0, 10, 3)
[0, 3, 6, 9]
>>> range(-10, -100, -30)
[-10, -40, -70]

Calling range() with one number produces the same list that a for statement
iterates over for that number:

>>> range(10)
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

--- end tutorial ---

I like this proposal and would like to see it adopted.  If others like it,
they should speak up since about all we hear from are the detractors.

Jeremy Cromwell

...now let's see..<PrtScnSysRq>...<PgUp>...Hmmm, where's that <wink> key?




From mats at laplaza.org  Sat Mar  2 11:16:23 2002
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:16:23 GMT
Subject: (OT?) Web-based document review system?
References: <3c801a5b.68374897@news.laplaza.org> <mailman.1015037644.21513.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c80f9de.125594084@news.laplaza.org>

On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:52:42 -0800, Wayne Pierce <wayne at mishre.com>
wrote:

:
:Mats Wichmann wrote:
:> Note: this is not a Python question per se.
:> 
:> I'm looking for a piece of software to aid in reviewing a document
:> through the web - click on a paragraph tag, have the comment added
:> (highlighted in some way). The wiki style doesn't seem to quite do it,
:> as the core document is not protected. I haven't found much in web
:> searches, and nothing where the software seems to be free.
:
:If Wiki allowed for password protection would it fit your requirements? 

Not really. A Wiki works on the model that everyone is the editor; the
model that I need to operate on is a single editor, many reviewers.
 

:Something like Zope's CMF Workflow[2] might also be a good fit....then 
:there's OpenFlow[3] (also running on Zope :).

My understanding of Zope is limited, but it might provide the
facilities needed, yes.

Here's an implementation that's "almost there":

http://www.quicktopic.com/10/D/9hmkxh7US2d.html

The thing I want (that I've seen in private in-house implementations)
is a view that shows the original document and the comment in a single
view, here you have to click to get the comments.

I can envision a scheme where a document is broken into objects that
can be commented on, and on presentation a document object can be
displayed togther with its' associated comment objects.  Sound like
something Zope could facilitate?

Hmmm.

Mats

Mats Wichmann



From angi15945 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  4 14:28:04 2002
From: angi15945 at hotmail.com (angi15945 at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:28:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: where you been
Message-ID: <200203041928.g24JS4c27970@main.sgk.com.pl>

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From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar 18 16:52:13 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:52:13 +0100
Subject: A question about generators
References: <858z8pg7h8.fsf@moriarity.grauel.com>
Message-ID: <m38z8pfss2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rjk at grauel.com (Richard J. Kuhns) writes:

> while 1:
>     inkey = raw_input('Well? ')
>     # there are also several variants like 'generate_exact_matches'
>     for i in generate_appox_matches(inkey):
>         if this_is_interesting(i):
>             do_work(i)
>         break
> 
> There's an assumption that if we find anything with the comparable
> generate_exact_matches(), they're all interesting.

It seems to me that a plain computation of a list of approx_matches
might be appropriate: you do need all of them in the algorithm, so
that would be a bad thing to do only if the approx_matches exceed your
available memory.

I'd write something like

def generate_appox_matches(inkey):
    result = []
    for line in open(filename):
        if appoximately_matches(line, inkey):
             result.append(line)
    return result

Look Ma, no generators!

Regards,
Martin


From kingprad at mail.com  Sat Mar  9 00:23:08 2002
From: kingprad at mail.com (Carl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:08 -0600
Subject: instantiating a class
Message-ID: <3c899c2d@news.cc.umr.edu>

I'm an intermediate-level python programmer and use classes all the time,
but a weird problem is frustrating me.

In my main program:


import lj_connect

blah blah code

talkserver = lj_connect.lj_connect(userinfo)


the start of lj_connect.py is this:

class lj_connect:
 def __init__(self,basic_data):
  self.uinfo = basic_data


I'm getting an AttributeError saying module lj_connect has no attribute
lj_connect. Originally the lj_connect code was in the same file as the main
program until I moved it for readability's sake. Can anyone see a problem?
Thank so much!

Carl




From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 20 06:39:56 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:39:56 GMT
Subject: Binary generation with distutils? (Freeze, py2exe, etc.)
References: <slrna9fkli.9ti.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <Xns91D71B945C087cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <slrna9fqje.k50.mlh@vier.idi.ntnu.no> <a78uvi$ff1$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <upu1z31mr.fsf@python.net>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> 
> > 
> > - Magnus (who also is a bit baffled as to why distutils doesn't
> > include?an?"uninstall"?command,?such?as?the?one?implemented?by
> > Thomas?Heller.)
> 
> Amen. It's incredibly annoying to have to tell users that a simple python 
> setup.py install does the trick as far as splattering files all over their 
> system, but that there's no reasonable way of undoing the process easily.

http://www.python.org/patches/ :)

> I realize how busy the core team is, but I truly hope that in the
> future someone finds time to give distutils a serious revamp. It's
> sorely needed, and it's IMHO a key piece of the python puzzle as a
> solid, wide-availability, cross-platform language.

People only complain that, e.g. "distutils doesn't do uninstall" or
"distutils doesn't do binary packages for platform X" because it does
the things it does so very well.  It is never going to be perfect,
because by definition it has to cope with all kinds of horrible
cross-platform nastiness, insane shell quoting, etc.

Even in it's current state, the distutils package is an amazing piece
of work.  I think people forget this sometimes.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  > I'm a little confused.
  That's because you're Australian!  So all the blood flows to
  your head, away from the organ most normal guys think with.
                        -- Mark Hammond & Tim Peters, comp.lang.python


From gargravarr at whoever.com  Wed Mar 20 16:08:59 2002
From: gargravarr at whoever.com (gargravarr at whoever.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:08:59 GMT
Subject: Unicode problem
References: <3c98f206.24909027@news.tiscali.no> <OG6m8.26452$n4.5185028@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3c98faad.27124282@news.tiscali.no>

>if you don't tell Python what 8-bit encoding you want
>to use for a Unicode string, Python will assume ASCII.

How do I tell Python what 8-bit encoding I want to use ? Can I tell
Python so I don't have to use encode?


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 19:19:15 2002
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 00:19:15 GMT
Subject: Python-2.2.1c1 Build Problems on Linux and AIX.
References: <a78031$tsj$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <mailman.1016565606.12230.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a78ki3$85t$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Skip,

> > With Python-2.2.1c1, I find `make test' fails on my old version of
> > Linux/x86 and it fails to build on an also old version of AIX.
> > Should I go straight to SourceForge and fill in bug forms or do
> > people tend to discuss the problems here first?
> >
> > I can see the problem with the AIX build.  Linux SIGSEGVs in
> > test_calendar on a call to strftime.
> 
> The strftime call in calendar.py is a bit abusive, so it's not
> entirely surprising to me that you're seeing problems.  This test
> succeeds for me on my Mandrake system.  Can you run the
> test_calendar.py script manually and submit a SF bug report (assign
> it to "montanaro")?  A debugger traceback would be helpful as well.

I've found this in README.

    On some Linux systems (those that are not yet using glibc 6),
    test_strftime fails due to a non-standard implementation of
    strftime() in the C library. Please ignore this, or upgrade to
    glibc version 6.

I guess that applies to me.

    local$ ldd python
            libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x40004000)
            libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x40007000)
            libutil.so.1 => /lib/libutil.so.1 (0x40014000)
            libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x40018000)
            libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40031000)
            /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x00000000)
    local$ rpm -qf /lib/libc.so.6
    glibc-2.0.7-29

> Does the AIX version of strftime support %a, %A, %b and %B formats?

I expect so.  But the AIX problem is in building python so I don't get
as far as `make test'.

Cheers,


Ralph.



From paul at boddie.net  Fri Mar 29 09:55:54 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 06:55:54 -0800
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016619871.27287.python-list@python.org> <7xk7s7mpiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.1016626151.9950.python-list@python.org> <slrna9haud.e6b.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <slrnaa3bi8.lam.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0203290655.25bbcab9@posting.google.com>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote in message news:<slrnaa3bi8.lam.jon+usenet at snowy.squish.net>...
>

[HTML in Python code]

> 
> ... and 'jonpy' avoids the issue entirely by neither embedding Python
> in HTML or HTML in Python. Its templating system embeds *no code of
> any sort* in the HTML and this turns out to be completely super ;-).
> See http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/wt-examples.html#templatecode for
> examples.

It's actually quite reminiscent of the earliest versions of DTML, in
fact, where comments are used to mark the structure of the "model" as
opposed to the special tags which were introduced in DTML later on.

> This is especially useful when you have different people generating
> the HTML and the code (as it almost always the case). The designer is
> much less likely to mangle the 'significant' parts of the HTML files,
> and even if they do, it's a matter of seconds to fix.

Zope Page Templates takes the other "under the radar" approach, of
course, using special attributes which HTML editors usually don't want
to touch. I suppose only testing of what different editors do with
attributes and comments can determine whether special attributes or
comments are best to avoid "destructive editing" when HTML files are
redesigned.

I agree with Jon that the ability to divide work into separate
activities of page design and application development is very
important, especially in situations where designs may change rapidly
over time. Indeed, any help in partitioning workloads is essential for
many kinds of applications; otherwise the software developers end up
not only doing their own work, but also intensively managing the
changes made by designers, potentially resulting in "workflow
bottlenecks" around developers while designers wait impatiently for
the application to take on its new look.

> Additionally, when the customer says "actually, we don't like the style of
> the site, we want it changed" and you get sent a whole bunch of new code-less
> HTML files, with a PHP-style code-in-HTML you pretty much have to
> reimplement the entire site from scratch, whereas with this system you
> just add back in the section markers and the code (which was in
> separate files anyway) does not usually need to be changed at all.

I think that while some applications probably do need a lot of control
over their own presentation, demanding a programmatic approach to
output generation, in many applications once the problem of generating
output in a maintainable way has been resolved, the most common
subsequent problem is handling the input from users and finding a way
to reduce the maintenance on this activity as well. In the Python
community, there is obviously an intense interest in templating, but I
haven't seen more than a handful of validation packages, and I can
imagine that few of them actually integrate satisfactorily with
template packages.

Paul


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Mar  4 03:41:07 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:41:07 -0500
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical
 computation?
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c202$7996be90$1001a8c0@NICKLEBY>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEALOBAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

A lot of this speculation should have been cut short by my first msg.

Yes, something changed in 2.2; follow the referenced link:

http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=496104

For the rest of it, it looks like the "1e-200**2 raises OverflowError"
glitch is unique to platforms using glibc.  What isn't clear is whether it's
dependent on which version of glibc, or on whether Python is linked
with -lieee, or both.

Unfortunately, the C standard (neither one) isn't a lick of help here --
error reporting from C math functions is a x-platform crapshoot.

Can someone who sees this problem confirm or deny that they link
with -lieee?  If they see this problem and don't link with -lieee, also
please try linking with -lieee and see whether the problem goes away then.

On boxes with this problem, I'm also curious what

import math
print math.pow(1e-200, 2.0)

does under 2.1.  One probably-relevant thing that changed between 2.1 and
2.2 is that float**int calls the platform pow(float, int) in 2.2.  2.1 did
it with repeated multiplication instead, but screwed up endcases.  An
example under 2.1:

>>> x = -1.
>>> import sys
>>> x**(-sys.maxint-1L)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>>>

The same thing under 2.2 returns 1.0, provided your platform pow() isn't
braindead.  Repeated multiplication is also less accurate than a
decent-quality pow().




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Mar 29 17:23:10 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 23:23:10 +0100
Subject: Problem with Tkinter
References: <a82cne$aef$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <m3pu1nui7l.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Cyr" <cd.cd at wanadoo.fr> writes:

> Python has been installed on another station in a common directory and
> Tkinter works great on the other station. But the Tk library isn't in a
> common directory. On this station (srv0023), I only have Tcl/Tk 8.0 (and no
> library in the directories mentioned in the error message). Is there any way
> I can configure python so that it would use Tk 8.0 library on the station
> but continue to use Tk 8.3 on the other station ? 

It is possible, but difficult. You need to compile _tkinter.so twice,
once linking it with Tk 8.0, and once linking it with Tk 8.3. That
requires that you have both versions installed on the build station,
including header files for both versions.

> In fact, I wonder how I can change the path search for the Tk
> library within python.

You need to edit Modules/Setup to direct make to a specific Tkinter
location. In doing so, you must uncomment the *shared* line in Setup,
since it will otherwise build _tkinter directly into the Python
executable.

HTH,
Martin



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Wed Mar 27 07:24:01 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:24:01 GMT
Subject: Python, CGI and PGP
References: <3c9fbf57@peer1.news.newnet.co.uk> <a7p6pj$4mp$1@news.idiom.com> <3ca0b0f9@peer1.news.newnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a7sdl1$jmj$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <3ca0b0f9 at peer1.news.newnet.co.uk>, Phil Edwards wrote:

>Jim Dennis wrote:

 ...

> Thanks, Jim, this is definitely one for the "little black book". When I see 
> things like this, I'm reminded just why I love UNIX so much...

>>  If you are reasonably persistent and a little clever you should be able

> Oh, that leaves me out, then :-)

> Managed to figure it all out with the help of the wrapper stuff above. It 
> turns out that both 'os.system' and 'commands.getoutput' (which I had 
> tried) trash so much of the execution environment that there's hardly 
> anything left for the binary to wprk with.

 I'd suspect that the web server is probably cleaning most of 
 the environment out.  I wouldn't immediately suspect Python of
 doing it (though I haven't looked through its code nor run
 an strace on it).

 A quick test from an interactive Python session (calling 
 os.system("bash") and also os.system("sh")) shows that they 
 have almost the same environment that I have from before 
 Python was loaded.  (The only discrepancies were SHLVL, which 
 is to be expected, and in the LINES and COLUMNS values, which 
 appeared in my sub-shells but not in the parent of my Python 
 process.  LINES and COLUMNS are set by bash for curses support
 --- but their omission should be innocuous for our purposes here.

 The web server, on the other hand, is well advised to execute
 CGIs in a "clean room" environment.  It probably uses one of the
 flavors of exec*() that passes a pointer to a new environment 
 to the system and thence to the child process.  You might be 
 able to modify your Apache (or other httpd / web server) configuration
 to retain more of your environment.

> I'm left with the following code in my CGI app:

>  cmd = 'export PGPPATH=/var/www/.pgp; /usr/local/bin/pgp -z windsurf -sta 
> -f - '
>  print 'content-type: text/html\n\n'
        
>  pw,pr = os.popen2(cmd)
>  pw.write(tdata)
>  pw.close()
>  junk = pr.read()
        
>  print string.replace(junk, '\n', '<br>\n')

> Thanks for your help! It's a shame there isn't a scheme for sending 
> beer/pizza vouchers over the 'net...

 You could send that to the Samba team in Canberra, Australia.
 I learned part of that trick from Tridge (Andre Tridgell, the
 creator of Samba).  They used to have an account with the local
 pizza shop.  I suppose you could follow the link on their web 
 site (http://www.samba.org/ ) to buy mugs or T-shirts.

 I've actually been considering creating a Paypal account for
 receiving payments from my remote consulting customers.  However,
 I'd never charge for answers to USENET.  

 I just consider the effort I put into my answers here to be a small 
 token of gratitude for the many answers I've received *from* netnews.  
 Despite all the flamers, trolls, and spam I've found that netnews is 
 the fastest way for me to learn a new technical subject.  
 
 Although I'll read any manuals I can find (I've got about a dozen 
 Python books at this point) and I'll even take the odd class if I can 
 find the time (they usually don't fit into my schedule, and they 
 usually go WAY TOO SLOW) and I go to user group meetings (too often 
 in a formal presentation style rather than a "workshop" gathering).

 Despite all these alternative approaches I find that the USENET 
 netnews medium affords the most practical way for me to learn.
 I do well when posed with lots of diverse questions around a subject
 and given the instant gratification of many answers (some wrong!).
 The game I play with myself, is that I try to guess the answer to 
 each puzzle and I try to critique each proposed answer.  As I 
 find that I can guess the "right" answers more often then not, I 
 move from lurker mode to active participant.  That forces me to 
 actually write and test my examples, which forces me to look up
 reference material on specific functions, which helps me gain
 practical proficiency.

 (I've been studying Python for about six months now).

 Anyway, glad I could help.



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Mar 15 12:34:09 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 12:34:09 -0500
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016168907.4720.python-list@python.org> <USnk8.25666$N7.5384674@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <uk7sdzqem.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> That is true under Win32 -- Just one of the problems when using
> an OS where the networking was pasted on (badly) as an
> afterthought.
> 
> Under Unix, select works on all file descriptors (sockets,
> pipes, serial ports, etc.).  That demonstrates the _right_ way
> to paste on networking as an afterthought.

Of course, to be fair, it's not really networking that was pasted on
badly but rather the socket interface.  If you're using native Win32
operations on native Win32 file handles, you can perform asynchronous
I/O and wait for completion on just about all the native kernel
objects - and even mix in other signaling objects simultaneously.  And
winsock does provide a way to tie socket I/O into the same event
system.

In Unix, select just happens to be a more generic function, whereas in
Windows it was grafted on as part of the socket library.  But that's
more a portability issue than a comment on Windows internals.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From gcordova at hebmex.com  Fri Mar  1 16:32:48 2002
From: gcordova at hebmex.com (Gustavo Cordova)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:32:48 -0600 
Subject: Code Review!! (or bash!)
Message-ID: <19650FF08A99D511B19E00B0D0F06323060B2B@SRM201002>

Howdy y'alls.

"Once upon a time in a Python List far far away...", some one
bitterly asked why python doesn't include an XML parser, since it
relied on expat to do it's XML parsing for it.

And that got me thinking... so, since I usually get a bit bored
for an hour or so during lunchtime, I wrote a tiny, toy XML
parser with a few helper classes. Emphasis on tiny toy.

Before I let it out into the wild, I'd like to know what you
all people think about this toy. I know, there's xml.dom stuff,
and xml.sax stuff, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around it,
so I just started writing this out of curiosity, and now it's
starting to feel useful. But "useful" is so subjective, isn't it.

:-)

Mind you, it only works for 8-bit chars, so there's a limitation.

So, here it is.
--
Gustavo C?rdova Avila
gcordova at sismex.com
8351-3861 | 8351-3862

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From wealthychef at mac.com  Thu Mar 14 22:34:42 2002
From: wealthychef at mac.com (wealthychef)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 19:34:42 -0800
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
Message-ID: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm pretty clueless about sockets, but here's my problem.  Please
help!

I have a process (actually a 'make') which takes a long time to
complete and periodically spits out lines of information.  I want to
keep an eye on it, echo what it says as it says it, and report its
status when done.  So I wrote a function called "WaitForCommand",
which in turn periodically calls CheckForOutput() to see if there's
anything to get.

My code is below.  The relevant lines are the following:

        selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
        (input, output, exc) = select.select([],selectables,
selectables)
        if output:
             for theOutput in output:
                if theOutput == theProcess.childerr:
                    eoutput = theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
                    print eoutput
                elif theOutput == theProcess.fromchild:
                    stdoutput = theProcess.fromchild.readline(bufsize)
                    print stdoutput

It blocks forever waiting for theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize) to
return.  I expect it to block waiting for select.select(); that would
not be a problem.  The problem is that select is claiming there's
stuff to be read, then when I try to read it, it's not there!  How can
that be?  I don't want to block forever waiting for childerr when
fromchild has something for me;  that's why I am using select, to be
able to see what's ready, right?  I don't get it.

******************************************************
Here is the full code if that's useful.  Please trim this out of your
replies if not needed.  This message is heinously long as it is.

def CheckForOutput(theProcess, selectables, bufsize, NoStdErr,
Verbose):
   while 1:
        (input, output, exc) = ([],[],[])
        (input, output, exc) =
select.select([],selectables,selectables)
        if output:
             for theOutput in output:
                if theOutput == theProcess.childerr:
                    eoutput = theProcess.childerr.readline(bufsize)
                    print eoutput
                elif theOutput == theProcess.fromchild:
                    stdoutput = theProcess.fromchild.readline(bufsize)
                    print stdoutput
         if exc:
             pollNum = theProcess.poll()
            if pollNum != -1:
                print "process closed"
                break
            raise ("WaitForCommand-- Unknown Error from process
pipe.")
        if not output and not exc:
            break
    return    

def WaitForCommand(iCommand, NoStdErr=None, RaiseExceptionOnErr=None,
Verbose=None, bufsize=-1):
     theProcess = popen2.Popen3(iCommand,capturestderr=1,
bufsize=bufsize)
    selectables = [theProcess.childerr, theProcess.fromchild]
    while 1:
        CheckForOutput(theProcess, selectables, bufsize, NoStdErr,
Verbose)
        returnCode = theProcess.poll()            
        if returnCode != -1:
            CheckForOutput(theProcess, selectables, bufsize, NoStdErr,
Verbose)
            if returnCode and RaiseExceptionOnErr:
                raise 'Error: return code is ' + str(returnCode)
            if Verbose:
                print 'return code is ', returnCode
            break
    return


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Mon Mar  4 14:20:00 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:20:00 -0800
Subject: PEP 282: A Logging System  --  comments please
In-Reply-To: <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com>; from aahz@panix.com on Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0800
References: <mailman.1013820626.16629.python-list@python.org> <a5pisn$gm1$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20020304112000.E9696@ActiveState.com>

> Trent Mick  <trentm at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> >
> >Simple Example
> >
> >    This shows a very simple example of how the logging package can be
> >    used to generate simple logging output on stdout.
> 

[Aahz Maruch wrote]
> Tim will whine about Win9x, but I suggest that stderr be the default.

I have no problem with stderr being the default. Perhaps having to make a
single configuration call to switch the default output stream back to
sys.stdout would not be too much of a burden for Win9x users that want to
redirect output from their program.

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From fgeiger at datec.at  Mon Mar 18 04:45:36 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:45:36 +0100
Subject: PIL: Want to convert images into HSL format
Message-ID: <a74der$1va$1@rex.ip-plus.net>

PIL can supply me with RGB data of an image. Does anybody know, how I can
PIL have to transform this into the HSL (aka HSI) model?

I'm new to image processing, but if I understand the chapter Introducint
PIL -> Concepts -> Mode right, HSL is not mentioned there. Well, I have to
admit, the only two color modes of the mentioned ones I understand are RGB
and CMYK.

Any idea?

Cheers
Franz GEIGER







From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 13:10:28 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:10:28 GMT
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org> <a84t0v$k7u$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA6008B.C76E9BD2@python.org>

[me]
> > Tim must be missing something.  The obvious way to turn a bool b into
> > an int is int(b).  Having to import the obscure 'operator' module for
> > this purpose is backwards.  (IMO there's almost *never* a reason to
> > import that module anyway.)

[Ralph]
> I thought Tim was trying to map a range of integer values onto just 0
> and 1 as ints, not False and True, where as you're suggesting he just
> wants to get an int from a boolean.  I think he has an expression like
> day_of_month, e.g. 30, and wants a 0 or 1 from it.

I should've said int(bool(x)) for any expression x.  When I wrote int(b) I
meant b to be a value that was already a bool.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From gimbo at ftech.net  Mon Mar 11 12:44:34 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:44:34 +0000
Subject: lambda question
In-Reply-To: <20020311182933.B1084@zephyr>
References: <29A97D00F387D411AC7900902770E148044AAFEB@lcoeexc01.coelce.net> <20020311182933.B1084@zephyr>
Message-ID: <20020311174434.GG12733@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

Of course, the other reason why it doesn't "work" (at least for me),
is that it's indented with tabs rather than 4 spaces.  ;-)

Now, I'll repeat that wink, just to be absolutely clear.

;-)

Actually, seriously, I'd also note that 'list' is not a good choice of
variable name, since it obscures the list() builtin.

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 17:13:59 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:13:59 +0000
Subject: how do i get RGB from HEX?
References: <a7flgu$cpg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
 <WCeE3TAUC2m8Ewar@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <a7iqan$s7o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <qLTblIAn4Pn8EwFn@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <a7iqan$s7o$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net>
writes
......
>>
>>>>> def rgb(h):
>>...     n = eval('0x'+h[1:])
>>...     return (n>>16)&0xff, (n>>8)&0xff, n&0xff
>>... 
>>>>> rgb('#DCDC0a')
>             ,-^^
>             |
>            ???
>             |
>            vvv
>>(220, 220, 220)
......
yes that was me editing in pythonwin
-- 
Robin Becker


From mcleanc at cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__  Fri Mar 22 13:47:06 2002
From: mcleanc at cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__ (Craig McLean)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:06 -0700
Subject: Namespace Qualification Question
Message-ID: <3C9B7C2A.20708@cpsc.ucalgary.ca__no_spam__>

I've been messing around with python namespaces and I've run into 
something that I haven't been able to answer.

Is there a module assosciated with the file you started the interpreter 
with, and if there is what is it's name?  For instance

 > python qux.py

I would have thought that there would be a qux module, and that it's 
name would be stored in the __name__ builtin.

If I was using the interpreter interactively would that change things?



From s.ernst at web.de  Fri Mar 15 04:10:21 2002
From: s.ernst at web.de (Sascha Ernst)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:10:21 +0100
Subject: problems with compiling python on osx
Message-ID: <a6sdqj$q70$06$1@news.t-online.com>

hello,

I've downloaded the newest python sources and tried to run ./configure. I'm
within the right directory, the shell is located correctly, all
read/write/execute-rights are set, but even as a root I get the
error-message "command not found!". is there anything I forgot?

regards, sascha





From phr-n2002a at nightsong.com  Sun Mar  3 03:57:28 2002
From: phr-n2002a at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Mar 2002 00:57:28 -0800
Subject: Rotor in Jython?
References: <mailman.1015094045.32114.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xlmdaf2pz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> writes:
> > <brueckd at tbye.com> writes:
> > > Put another way: sorting by key length, AES beats rotors hands down.
> > > Sorting by computational cost, rotors always win because you can just make
> > > the keys longer (without having to reimplement your crypto).
> >
> > Longer keys are only relevant if breaking the cipher requires searching
> > for the key.
> 
> Heheh... that's essentially what cryptanalysis is - finding the key since
> in most cases the algorithm itself is known. If you're referring to
> non-brute force key searches, then key length is relevent there as well
> (unless the algorithm itself is flawed). 

Yes, that's the point.  AES appears to be very attack resistant.
Compared to AES, rotors have a pretty sorry history of falling to
cryptanalysis.  There's no reason to think brute force is the best
way to solve a rotor cipher.


From evebill8 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 12:32:44 2002
From: evebill8 at hotmail.com (Billy Ng)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:32:44 GMT
Subject: sunstring
Message-ID: <0r4l8.22204$P4.1955815@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Would anybody tell me how to do substring in python?

Thanks in advance!

Billy Ng




From cfelling at iae.nl  Fri Mar  1 16:25:19 2002
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 1 Mar 2002 22:25:19 +0100
Subject: PEP 276 (was Re: Status of PEP's?)
References: <mailman.1014938330.6533.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5orjv$7j0$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

...
> [Carel Fellinger]
>> you being such a heavy weight that I fear
...
> Well, thanks (I think <wink>), but I can assure you that I hold no special

You think right, which could have be infered from *me* calling you a
heavy weight, might you have known me:)

...
> [Carel Fellinger]
>> Not only newbie unfriedly, you need a firm grasp of modern set
>> based number theory to appreciate it, it seems.

> As fond as we all surely are of the neat mathematical underpinnings
> suggested here and before, I believe that most programmers -- regardless of
> skill level (and pedigree in the field of mathematics) -- would be able to
> understand -- and certainly easily remember the second time -- that
> iterating on n means taking each of 0,1,2, ..., n-1 in turn; this without
> having to think about -- much less have "a firm grasp of" -- number theory
> (modern, set-based, or otherwise <wink>).  At least if one has enough
> background to understand "iteration" to begin with.

I admit I will be able to remember this, know how and when to use it
and all that.  And certainly programmers in general will be able to
handle it, hey some of them even handle APL (or so they believe).  But
even after that nice math lesson I still don't *understand* it, you
iterate over a sequence and I have a hard time seeing an integer as a
sequence.  Same for a length. And I believe many would have the same
problem.  Besides, I don't see the huge advantage of this compared to
`range(integer)' or `indici(sequenceORmapping)'.

Unfortunately the whole subject has moved from a `preference' via
`lack of knowledge' to a matter of `believe', so not much of a chance
to resolve it:)

> Let's try that again.

> Q: What does it mean to iterate a number n?

A: I wouldn't know.  O wait you mean that awfull hack, yea I know,
   pretend an integer is a sequence...


> I certainly acknowledge the feelings of those who don't like the suggested
> idiom.  At the same time, claims of its alleged *great difficulty* seem
> overblown.

It's not difficult to use once it's been explained, it's difficult
to understand no matter how often it gets explained.

> [Carel Fellinger]
>> So please explain why you think it natural to loop over a number.

> The "rational" section of PEP 276 talks about iterating through the indices
> of an indexed collection.  These, as we know, are related to the length (an
> integer) of the indexed collection.

far fatched isn't it?
What about a function that accepts as argument such a collection and then
generates the indici?  Much easier to explain, to understand, to adopt.
But admitted, it takes a little extra typing.

Seriously I would like you to add something in your PEP that addresses
this simple alternative and explain why you favour yours.  True,
`i in range(len(sequence))' doesn't look very pleasing, but
`i in indici(sequence)' does. And as an added bonus it's
very similar to `(i, item) in indexed(sequence)'.


> [Carel Fellinger]
>> here in your PEP you make it look like some minority
>> of nitwits objected

> I don't remember writing anything about nitwits.  But that does remind me

I'm sorry. Those are my words, and my words only. I was a bit itchy that
day, would have formulated it differently now.  But I do think that
dismissing our point as a matter of preference misses our point.


> [Remco Gerlich]
>> Compare:
>>
>> for i in 6: print i
>> for i in 6,7: print i
>> for i in 6,7,8: print i
>>
>> You wouldn't think the first line does something different, would you?

> [Emile van Sebille]
>> Is that really any different from what we have now:
>>
>> for i in "Spam": print i
>> for i in "Spam","and": print i
>> for i in "Spam","and", "Eggs": print i

> [Andy Gimblett]
>> Yes, it really is.  "Spam" is a sequence, whereas 6 isn't.

> I agree with Emile on this one.

To me this means you actually see and int as a sequence then.  A
string is a sequence, a sequence of chars.  I still fail to understand
how the same applies to integers.

> Two different results.  One needs to understand how and why.  Sometimes one
> wants to treat a string as a unit, other times as a sequence.  It's useful
> and convenient to be able to do both.

I agree, but can't relate this to integers.

looking forward to your views on meta programming though
-- 
groetjes, carel


From clpy at snakefarm.org  Fri Mar 15 18:14:10 2002
From: clpy at snakefarm.org (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:14:10 +0100
Subject: locale module broken?
Message-ID: <3C928042.BA50A5B3@snakefarm.org>

Hi there,

while playing around with Greg Lindstrom's "Pretty integers" (see his
posting), my Python 2.2 got stuck here:

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "fr_FR")
'fr_FR'
>>> locale.format("%.1f", 12345.5, 1)

It runs forever. This is on RedHat 6.2 and Debian Potato. Any hints?
Note that I didn't "./configure --without-french". :-)

cg.
-- 
Why settle for snake oil if you can have the whole snake?
http://python.org/


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Mar  6 21:06:38 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:06:38 -0800
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops
References: <mailman.1015461014.32511.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-CE89D0.18063806032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1015461014.32511.python-list at python.org>,
 James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:

> A lot of thought and work has been put into the syntax part of the
> proposal.  I think some more thought and work might be required on the
> semantics.

Well, it would be a problem if the semantics need to get hairy to 
support the syntax.  To continue quoting from Tim, "If the 
implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea."

So I think I would prefer to only handle built-in integer types for now.  
I guess the PEP should state that more explicitly?

Thanks for your other comments, I'll keep them in mind.


From guido at python.org  Sat Mar 30 13:29:29 2002
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:29:29 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: Your message of "30 Mar 2002 11:04:13 EST."
             <yu991ye2xcsi.fsf@europa.research.att.com> 
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <014f01c1d7f3$fe9aff00$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com> <200203301423.g2UENn701717@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>  
            <yu991ye2xcsi.fsf@europa.research.att.com> 
Message-ID: <200203301829.g2UITUw02158@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> Guido> Another argument for deriving bool from int: implementation
> Guido> inheritance.  A bool must behave just like an int, and this is
> Guido> most easily accomplished this way: the bool type doesn't have
> Guido> implementations for most operations: it inherits them from the
> Guido> int type, which find a bool acceptable where an int is
> Guido> required.

[ARK]
> Liskov substitutibility would seem to suggest deriving int from bool,
> not the other way around.  That is: If I have a program that uses bool
> values, I can change it so that it uses int values without affecting
> the behavior of the program.  The reverse is not true.
> 
> I wonder if this is the circle-ellipse problem over again?

Probably.  We're inheriting implemetation.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 08:35:24 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:35:24 +0000
Subject: How to install pychecker?
References: <jgmj9ucgm47i87dp6eie5l5frn65ntfrpl@4ax.com> <slrna9jo1d.1pp.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <7boj9u477fofip4l7hdh2fcri1cgo7tv0s@4ax.com>

Thanks for the replies. Now installed.


--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sun Mar 31 20:17:03 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:17:03 +0100
Subject: __name__ on new-style classes
Message-ID: <stcfaugkbh0u65d1euuofhs2b69ej7i34h@4ax.com>

One can change the name of a classic class but not of a new-style one
(see below for example). Is this a bug or a feature, and if the latter
is there any reason for the change?

>>> class Test(int):
... 	pass
... 
>>> Test
<class '__main__.Test'>
>>> Test.__name__
'Test'
>>> Test.__name__ = "Weirdo"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: attribute '__name__' of 'type' objects is not writable
>>> class Test:
... 	pass
... 
>>> Test.__name__
'Test'
>>> Test.__name__ = "Weirdo"
>>> Test.__name__
'Weirdo'



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Tue Mar 12 13:37:33 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 18:37:33 GMT
Subject: Has Mark Hammond attained pariah status yet?
References: <mailman.1015926440.9915.python-list@python.org> <3c8e0911_1@news.bluewin.ch> <DCC06DA5CC2A2ED7.3B030F1BDAE0470D.A0808CD1202583BC@lp.airnews.net> <3c8e2b9b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <slrna8sind.nfu.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <3c8e2b9b$1_4 at news.bluewin.ch>, Samuele Pedroni wrote:
> And what datapoints we acquire through
> the article?

Well, nothing much, which is all I'd expect from something so brief in
a general publication.  Hopefully Mark will clarify at some point.

There does seem to be an increasing trend to vaporware announcements
about language unification, though.  Witness Parrot, Mono, and
SmallScript [1], all of which talk about having support for many
languages including Python, but none of which have actually tried to
build that support or work with the Python community to build it.

[1] http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bq%25F6.22782%24Jh5.22352484%40news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com&output=gplain

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
UTF-8 has a certain purity in that it equally annoys every nation, and
is nobody's default encoding.
    -- Andy Robinson, 10 Apr 2000


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Mar  7 14:59:46 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:59:46 -0800
Subject: Python and computer graphics
In-Reply-To: <3C87B078.2050806@student.kun.nl>
References: <3C8785EA.5010509@student.kun.nl> <1015517388.720858@news.commspeed.net> <3C87B078.2050806@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <20020307195946.GF29379@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting husam (h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl):
> 
> I was wondering whether it is possible to create graphics objects 
> without the use of a external module. Imagin that you build an 
> application and want to let other people use it. People have to install 
> python, then
> the extra module. The chance that my program finds its way to clients 
> screens is not so big.

Anything's possible, but it's a lot of work, probably work you don't
really want to do.

Most of the freely-available packages are creatures whose
redistribution is allowed. That means you could include the library in
your app's package, and install it as part of the install. Or don't
install it -- just build a little place for it in your app's
installation and import it from there. PIL in particular is very
accomodating about this; I've seen it used both globally installed and
within a local source tree and it functions either way.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Don't get suckered in by the comments-- 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     they can be terribly misleading.
www.gerrietts.net/geoff/     Debug only code." --Dave Storer



From dortmann at lsil.com  Thu Mar 14 14:18:33 2002
From: dortmann at lsil.com (Daniel Ortmann)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 13:18:33 -0600
Subject: python name spaces
References: <m3n0xfontm.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com> <3C8C45F2.E0F6D9EC@earthlink.net> <m3g037nm47.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com> <just-2E14F4.17155511032002@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3n0xbt0ty.fsf@rmauctor.lsil.com>

Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> writes:

> In article <m3g037nm47.fsf at rmauctor.lsil.com>,
>  Daniel Ortmann <dortmann at lsil.com> wrote:

> > (I posted since I saw no PEP addressing these issues.)

> Have you looked at PEP 227?
>   http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0227.html

Thank you for the clue.

PEP 227 has much content and will require careful reading.  One thing
which might aid clarity is a concise set of Scheme examples, showing the
Python behavior through Scheme comparison.

-- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic
3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester, MN 55901
dortmann at lsil.com / 507.529.3887 (w) / 535.3887 (int)
ortmann at isl.net   / 507.288.7732 (h)


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Mar  7 14:50:35 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:50:35 -0700
Subject: Integers class...?
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192215155@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Magnus Lie Hetland [mailto:mlh at vier.idi.ntnu.no] 
> 
> With all this talk about iteration etc. I just thought I'd 
> chuck in another idea. It is similar to several earlier ideas 
> (and may even have been proposed in exactly this form before 
> -- I just haven't seen it, or at least can't remember it).
> 
> One of the interval syntaxes (e.g. for for-loops) I'd like is 
> something like [0, 2 .. 10], similar to Haskell. 
[snip]

As was mentioned the last time this proposal came up, it doesn't deal
well with half open intervals, i.e.:

  for i in [0, 1, ... len(mySeq)-1]:

is prone to off-by-one errors. By itself though I think it fits in the
"cute" category <wink>, so feel free to write up a PEP suggesting the
change...

-- bjorn



From laytonjb at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 29 14:29:31 2002
From: laytonjb at bellsouth.net (Jeff Layton)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:29:31 -0500
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
Message-ID: <3CA4C09B.D9D15464@bellsouth.net>

Hello,

   I'm still learning Python and I'm playing around with some
code that creates a class. I've mastered that stage already.
However, what I want to do is create multiple instances of
the class and put them into a list.
   If the class is called Bob, then I want to do something like,


a = []
a[0] = Bob('input1')


and so on. Everytime I try something like this I get the following
error message:


a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
IndexError: list assignment index out of range


   I also tried it this way,


a = []
a.append = Bob('localhost')


and I get the error message:


a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
IndexError: list assignment index out of range

   Can anyone shed some light into how I do this? Or is
there a better way?

TIA,

Jeff





From huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com  Mon Mar  4 18:06:49 2002
From: huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:06:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for        numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org>        <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <mailman.1015092245.20363.python-list@python.org> <slrna87sk7.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <slrna87vg9.1a6.huaiyu@gauss.almadan.ibm.com>

I wrote: 
>
>Produces
>1e+200   inf 34 Numerical result out of range 34
>1e-200     0 34 Numerical result out of range 34

Ah! Now I understand what Tim and others are talking about.  If I link the C
program with -lieee, I get

1e+200   inf 0 Success 34
1e-200     0 0 Success 34

So my question now is:  What do I do to tell Python to compile with -lieee?

In the source tree there are several places that mention this, but none of
which looks like meant for hand editing.   The lines in ./pyconfig.h

/* Define if you have the ieee library (-lieee).  */
/* #undef HAVE_LIBIEEE */

looks like it.  But since it's already commented out, does that mean
HAVE_LIBIEEE is already defined? 

Huaiyu



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar  1 06:34:59 2002
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: 01 Mar 2002 20:34:59 +0900
Subject: PEP 263 comments
References: <mailman.1014762060.30054.python-list@python.org> <m3u1s31eah.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87g03lhm3p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <j4y9hdg0ks.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87pu2oeqq9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <m3wuwwg2zc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87u1s0bjx8.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Martin" == Martin v Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

    Martin> "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> writes:
    >> IMO, the Python source code parser should never see any text
    >> data[1] that is not UTF-8 encoded.  If you want to submit
    >> Python programs to the parser that are not UTF-8 encoded, then
    >> it is your responsibility as the programmer to make sure they
    >> get translated into UTF-8 (eg, by the preprocessing hook)
    >> before the interpreter proper ever sees them.

    Martin> That would cause surprises to users. They have a source
    Martin> program that says

    Martin> # -*- coding: koi8-r -*-
    Martin> print "some cyrillic text"

    Martin> This currently works fine on their system; the text comes
    Martin> out on the terminal just right. Now, Python would convert
    Martin> this text silently to UTF-8 behind their backs, and the
    Martin> terminal would show just garbage.

No, it shows "Error: non-UTF-8 data detected in string."  Conversion
only takes place if a preprocessing hook function is defined, and the
same environment that provides an appropriate preprocessing hook will
also arrange to make sure that program I/O is done in KOI8-R, too.

But I take your point.  It will take time to develop such
environments.  In the interim, it will cause users who are currently
depending on undefined behavior pain.

You _can_ say "no" now, while things are undefined.  Or you can change
the language definition to promise support.  If you do that, you are
unlikely to be able to get rid of that support for decades, as legacy
software will depend on it.

    Martin> How to print it is then another issue; you'll have to
    Martin> figure out the encoding of the terminal - that is
    Martin> feasible in most cases.

Why open up that Pandora's box?  Push it out into user space.  Support
them as much as you want to with libraries, give up when it gets too
hard (it will!).  My experience is that users will not thank you for
anything less than perfect support for all coding systems yesterday,
if the language definition promises any support at all.  If the
language definition says "UTF-8 or die", they will thank you for the
nice codecs you provide to ease the transition.

    >> [1] Ie, Python language or character text.  It might be
    >> convenient to have an octet-string primitive data type, in
    >> which you could put EUC-encoded Japanese or Java byte codes.

    Martin> The traditional "string" type is, in fact, a byte string
    Martin> type. Many people use it still for character strings,

Maybe you don't need a third type.  I see it as a matter of a
transition strategy, to allow you to generate exactly the error I
suggest above.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Mar 16 20:01:22 2002
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 16 Mar 2002 17:01:22 -0800
Subject: Enhanced information from common exceptions
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0203161701.1a2da9a3@posting.google.com>

An example:

>>> alist = [4,3,2,1]
>>> alist[42]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IndexError: list index out of range
>>>

Suppose this was actually in a script somewhere. IMO, it would be much
more useful for Python developers of all levels were the message to be
something like:

IndexError: list index 42 not in range(4)

Often this extra info would lead to problem recognition & resolution
without the need for an extra step (print statement or debugger).

Perhaps if people cared to nominate their "favourite"
high-frequency-low-information exception message(s), together with
suggested changes, we could put together a nanoPEP on this topic -- or
simply just propose a few patches.


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Tue Mar 26 03:20:12 2002
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 08:20:12 GMT
Subject: How to get a key from  dictionary?
References: <3C9FAFCC.20062.91741D@localhost> <mailman.1017100600.5242.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7pavs$paa$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <mailman.1017100600.5242.python-list at python.org>, Don Arnold wrote:


>> Hi,
>> Is there a possibility to get, from a dictionary, a key according to a
>> value ?
>> For example
>> I have a dictionary

>> dict={'aa':1,'bb':2}

>> and
>> dict['aa']
>> is 1

 You could create your own class which maintained *two* dictionaries.
 For every insertion into the main dictionary you'd insert an entry
 into the self.valuedex dictionary.  
 
 You could have an instance flag determine whether to allow non-unique 
 values.  If you allow non-unique values then each key in the 
 "valuedex" or "reverse_index" would be a list (of the keys where this 
 value is stored).  If you require unique values (as well as unique keys) 
 then you can raise a suitable exception when you detect a violation of 
 this policy (maybe you'd create a "ValueConstraintException" as a 
 subclass of KeyError or something like that).

 You might need another instance flag to handle any attempt to use
 lists (or other mutable objects) as values to assign into your 
 "doubly indexed" dictionary.  For simple flat lists it might be 
 reasonable to generate a tuple as the key for the reverse mapping 
 (valuedex).  Any you'll have to decide what sort of exception
 to raise for situations where you can't think of a suitable hashable
 representation of the value being added to the dictionary.

 It would even be possible to implement this with lazy evaluation of
 the reverse mapping.  Thus you'd leave the reverse mapping (valuedex)
 empty until an attempt to search it was made.  Then you'd generate it.
 Upon subsequent reverse searches you might check the dictionary first,
 return if found, and only re-generate/update the reverse mapping 
 when necessary.  (Intuitively I suspect that this would only make 
 sense when "unique value" constraints were in place; and possibly
 it would defer the checking for invalid (mutable/non-hashable) 
 values until it was unrecoverable; until it might be non-sensical
 to trap those exceptions).

 Anyway, those are your choices:  If you want fast and efficient
 access to the "keys" from the "values" then you need to index those
 as well (most readily done by maintaining a reverse mapping 
 dictionary).  This entails some of the same constraints on your 
 values that you should already expect from your keys (uniqueness and
 hashability/immutability).  If you don't need the reverse access to
 be as fast or efficient then you can simply iterate over the items
 list; either breaking on the first match (if you expect your values
 to be unique, or if you only want a single match) or looping through
 the whole list of items and building a list of return values.
 
 A simple list comprehension method for getting all of the keys
 for a give value is:

 	
		matches = [ x for x,y in d.items() if y ... ]

 ... where d is the dictionary, and ... is replaced with some 
 comparison or conditional.

 I could wrap that pattern in a function:

 	def searchvalues(d,f)
		return [ x for x,y in d.items() if f(y) ]

 ... though the invocation might be a bit non-intuitive since
 it would require that the user construct some sort of function,
 possibly a lambda function which would only take one argument
 and return a boolean on it.  This hides the condition being tested
 in a remote bit of code.

 If I had a real need for this I might come up with a way to pass
 additional arguments to searchvalues (kind of like the os.path.walk()
 function).  In practice my comparison function might be a closure,
 though the scoping for that might become a bit of a nightmare.




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 06:11:04 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:11:04 +0000
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <mailman.1015084565.2836.python-list@python.org> <B8A673F4.4322%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <a5r4n8$m5f$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Fernando Pereira wrote:

> It's not Python 2.2 itself:
> 
> % python
> Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 10 2002, 13:29:43)
> [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> 1e-200**2
> 0.0

Ok, some more details to try and find who the culprit is:

[~]> uname -a
Linux maqroll 2.4.8-26mdk #1 Sun Sep 23 17:06:39 CEST 2001 i686 unknown
[~]> gcc -v
Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-mandrake-linux-gnu/2.96/specs
gcc version 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.1 2.96-0.62mdk)
[~]> python
Python 2.2 (#1, Jan 17 2002, 21:03:58)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.71mdk)] on linux-i386
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1e-200**2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')

This python2.2 was built by myself on a Mandrake 8.1 box (which comes with 
2.1 by default).

So it probably is a gcc/glib bug of some sort, but I don't really know where.

Cheers,

f.


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar 26 06:26:42 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:26:42 -0600
Subject: Indentation problem
In-Reply-To: <7ieli7an7s.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
References: <mailman.1017062259.25098.python-list@python.org>
        <7isn6o9fld.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
        <mailman.1017115478.17777.python-list@python.org>
        <7ieli7an7s.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <15520.23282.195124.192641@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    Isaac> This is somewhat close to what I say, but a little bit off: it
    Isaac> won't reindent to the correct tab width.  E.g., if you have the
    Isaac> following

    Isaac> def f(a):
    Isaac>     print("Trying " + a)
    Isaac> if (a <= 0):
    Isaac>         return 1
    Isaac> else
    Isaac>         return a * f(a-1)
    Isaac> print("Done")

    Isaac> and you try to use the C-c > command, you end up with

    Isaac> def f(a):
    Isaac>     print("Trying " + a)
    Isaac>     if (a <= 0):
    Isaac>             return 1
    Isaac>     else
    Isaac>             return a * f(a-1)
    Isaac>     print("Done")

    Isaac> It still works, but it doesn't look nice.  What I want is a real
    Isaac> reindentation which understand how Python reads indentation,
    Isaac> making it

    Isaac> def f(a):
    Isaac>     print("Trying " + a)
    Isaac>     if (a <= 0):
    Isaac>         return 1
    Isaac>     else
    Isaac>         return a * f(a-1)
    Isaac>     print("Done")

Now that I understand better...  You are asking to transform one
syntactically correct piece of Python into another.  Starting from your
first example you can't get to your third example without some human input
on the correct nesting.  C-c > gets you to a functionally correct state
(your second chunk of code would presumably not generate a NameError and
would emit the desired output).  For small bits of code, you can just
reindent the over-indented lines with the TAB key.  For larger chunks of
code you can use the reindent.py program in the Tools/scripts directory of
the Python distribution to adjust the amount of indentation so it is
uniform.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Mon Mar  4 13:55:20 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:55:20 +0100
Subject: Text Search Engine that works with Python
References: <Aiyg8.32103$ZC3.2619794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C83C312.756378F8@accessforall.nl>


Doug Farrell wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone knows of a text search engine that works with
> Python? What I'm looking for specifically is something that will compress
> the text and still allow searches and retrievals that can be exact matches
> or proximity based. The text I want to compress and search is huge (70 megs)
> and should compress down to half, not including any index files that might
> be required by the search engine. Anyone know of anything like this or any
> ideas?

In case you can use Jython as your Python implementation, have a look
at Lucene http://jakarta.apache.org/lucene/docs/index.html .

You'll have to do the compression yourself, but you can store any field
with a document, including one that is filtered through a zip outputstream
from the standard java libraries. You might consider storing only a reference
to a file containing the compressed text of your documents.

Lucene searches very fast. For 500 Mb of indexes in 15 lucene dbs, typical
query time is less than a second for all databases together on a 400Mhz
machine. Typical index size is around one third of original text.
The 15 dbs are my own choice, lucene could easily handle everything in
a single db.

Apart from exact matches and proximity you can also use prefix terms
and required terms. Lucene is optimized to retrieve only the best matches
to a query, but you can also use it's API in boolean mode.

Recommended, especially together with the lucene-users list.

Ype


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Mar 20 18:07:00 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 20 Mar 2002 18:07:00 -0500
Subject: Java and Python
References: <mailman.1016649539.7522.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u7ko63kkr.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at destiny.com> writes:

> Jan Dries writes:
> >> May I ask you what the scale for your webapp was? (Because MySQL is 
> >> related to small to mid-size web applications). Is it the same case with 
> >> Python?
> > 
> > FWIW, a recent benchmark test in Eweek showed MySQL to be comparable to 
> > Oracle 9i with respect to both performance and scalability.
> > See http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=708&a=23115,00.asp
> 
> And please not that this benchmark used MySQL in *transaction* mode, 
> same as Oracle. When used without transactions it's even faster. I must 
> say, I was quite surprised... I thought Oracle was further ahead.

True, but the transaction driver was carefully chosen to only apply to
a subset of the tables, so I'm not sure if it would have been the same
if all tables were transactioned.

Very respectable, nevertheless.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com  Sat Mar  9 15:36:33 2002
From: sab at NOSPAM.freeuk.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:36:33 -0000
Subject: Gurus, I wonder if you can take a look at this source code? Win32...
Message-ID: <a6drna$57s$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi,
    I have started writing a text editor for Win32 platforms and i wonder if
anyone has a few minutes spare just to take a look at the source code and
give me a little constructive critisism? I have been learning python on and
off for about a year as my first (real) language (well not including a year
with javascript) and i would like to hear if i am heading in the right
direction. I have choosen a text editor as a project 'cos it could be as
large and feature filled as i wanted, a good execise i thought. the thing i
struggle with a little is knowing when and where to use classes and if i am
using them right? anyway your time would be greatly apprieciated for any
views u have.

You can find it here (15.4kb):

http://www.garyw.uklinux.net/Larchv1.0a.zip

Thanks

G. Willoughby

P.S. remember i am still working on it, lots of funtionallity remains to be
added!  :)




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 15 09:13:44 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:13:44 -0500
Subject: Windows Installation
References: <7gdk8.277$ID.1679@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <u94n0p932q6j12@news.supernews.com>

"Jonathan Gardner" <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:7gdk8.277$ID.1679 at news.hananet.net...
> I have a free software program
(http://sf.net/projects/bttotalcontrol/) and
> I am having great difficulty writing an installation script for
windows.
>
> I don't want to use distutils because I am not writing a module - but
an
> entire distribution with images, data files, and executable programs.
I
> would like to put icons on the desktop and stuff in the start menu as
well.
>
> I am at a major disadvantage because I don't have access to a windows
> machine, and so I can't test anything directly. However, I do have a
few
> people who actively test for the project at home.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on where I should go? Anyone can help me
out
> here?

I took a quick look at your project, and it seems like most of
what you want is simply copying files from your package into
appropriate directories.

Putting something into the start menu is dead easy. Just put a
link to the appropriate file into "c:Windows/Start Menu/Programs"
Note the blank, and watch your capitalization. Windows is
flaky about capitalization.

Putting an icon on the desktop is a bit more difficult. AFIK, that
has to go into the registry, and hacking the registry is not for the
faint of heart, especially if you're doing it remotely. Everything
else you said you want to do can be backed out manually,
with a little effort.

You didn't mention whether you wanted to register a file type
so a program gets launched when you double click a file. If so,
I'd really recommend getting an installer package - that's midlevel
registry sorcery. You might want to check the Vaults to see if
there is code you can use.

John Roth


>
> Jonathan
>




From psage at ncaustin.com  Tue Mar 26 14:07:18 2002
From: psage at ncaustin.com (Paul Sage)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:07:18 -0600
Subject: TKinter question - A combo box / menu question
Message-ID: <03F53405C6ED434A986221919785A6A7106BE7@nca-postal.ncaustin.com>


I am trying to build a very simple menu portion of a program.  I have
the main frame created and the menu box is a widget in that frame.  The
menu is a straight pull down menu.  However, in the "LOAD" part of the
menu where I would like to create a pop-up combo box when load is
selected from the menu.  I have created both working widgets, but every
time I execute the program, it pops up the ComboDialogBox.  I want this
box to be a part of an event, not actually being built.  Can anyone help
with this?

class TopMenuBar:
  def __init__(self, parent):
    menu_Bar = Frame(parent, relief=GROOVE, borderwidth =1)
    menu_Bar.pack(fill=X)
    FileBtn = self.player_Load_Menu(menu_Bar)
    ConfigureBtn = self.player_Configure_Menu(menu_Bar)

  def player_Load_Menu(self, menu_Bar):
    #Create the first top menu item
    CmdBtn = Menubutton(menu_Bar, text='Character Selection',
underline=0)
    CmdBtn.pack(side=LEFT)
    CmdBtn.menu = Menu(CmdBtn, tearoff=0)
    #Begin creating the items in the first top menu
    CmdBtn.menu.add_command(label="Load Form",
command=self.open_file(menu_Bar))
    CmdBtn.menu.add_command(label="Save Form", command=self.save_file)
    CmdBtn.menu.add_command(label="New Form", command=self.new_file)
    CmdBtn.menu.add('separator')
    CmdBtn.menu.add_command(label="Quit", command=self.quit_file)
    CmdBtn['menu'] = CmdBtn.menu
    return(CmdBtn)

  def player_Configure_Menu(self, menu_Bar):
    #Create the second top menu item
    CmdBtn = Menubutton(menu_Bar, text='Configure Form', underline=0)
    CmdBtn.pack(side=LEFT)
    CmdBtn.menu = Menu(CmdBtn, tearoff=0)
    #Begin creating the items in the second top menu
    CmdBtn.menu.add_command(label="Add level", command=self.add_level)
    CmdBtn.menu.add_command(label="Subtract level",
command=self.subtract_level)
    CmdBtn['menu'] = CmdBtn.menu
    return(CmdBtn)

  def open_file(self, parent):
    #Need the listofcharacters to be a tuple sequence.
    from char_edit_combo_load import *
    forms = []
    listOfCharacters = tuple(getFiles(forms))
    dialog = Pmw.ComboBoxDialog(parent, title = "Character Load",
                                buttons = ('OK', 'Cancel'),
defaultbutton = 'OK',
                                combobox_labelpos=N, label_text="Please
select a character",
                                scrolledlist_items=listOfCharacters,
listbox_width=22)
    dialog.withdraw()
    result=dialog.activate()
    # The function has now opened seen the selection, time to open the
file.
    if result == 'OK':
      return(readObjectFromFile(dialog.get()))
    else:
      return(None)


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From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Mar 18 18:43:00 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:43:00 +1100
Subject: Declare list of large size
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A21F@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: marduk [mailto:marduk at python.net]
> 
> On Mon, 2002-03-18 at 16:44, Aaron Ginn wrote:
> > 
> > Perhaps I've just glossed over this in the documentation, 
> but what is
> > the simplest way to declare a list of large size?  Is there 
> something
> > analogous to the following in C:
> > 
> > int list[100];
> > 
> 
> list = [0]*100

But note that this is only safe for immutable elements. You will obtain a
reference to the *same* object as each element.

This normally bites people when they try to make multi-dimensional arrays
...

list = [[0] * 2] * 2
print list
list[0][0] = 1
print list

[[0, 0], [0, 0]]
[[1, 0], [1, 0]]

As you can see, the first element of each sub-list has been changed - this
is because each sub-list is in fact the same list!

Tim Delaney



From kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com  Thu Mar  7 03:23:45 2002
From: kennedy.bill.nospam at freeuk.com (William Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:23:45 GMT
Subject: NoteTab Lite
Message-ID: <a677q4$7nj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Does anyone use the NoteTab series of editors for their coding, if so do they 
have a Python library I can have.

Many Thanks in advance

---
William Kennedy
remove the .nospam from my email address


From brueckd at tbye.com  Mon Mar 18 10:58:10 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:58:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Converting relative URLs to absolute
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0203180259.26e87496@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203180754590.32093-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 18 Mar 2002, Paul Boddie wrote:

> <brueckd at tbye.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016224116.19523.python-list at python.org>...
> >
> > Rather than add a new module, why not add more functionality to the
> > urlparse module in the standard distribution? (what functionality do you
> > need beyond what's already there, anyway?)
>
> I wouldn't want to add a new module - it's most interesting to tidy up
> what's already there, adding better "split" functions to urllib (and
> urllib2), and adding some "join" functions too. I certainly wouldn't
> advocate adding a huge dependency on some other library, even though
> some interesting candidates exist.

But URL split and join functions already exist in the urlparse module
(urlparse, *not* urllib). See urlparse's urlparse, urlunparse, and urljoin
functions - what don't they do that you need? They certainly handle the
make-relative-URLs-absolute problem.

-Dave




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Mar 18 06:16:55 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:16:55 +0000
Subject: Process to process synchronization (unix)
References: <a6tn83$nh6$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <a74eik$21k9$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Gillou wrote:
> I have a Zope application and another running process (in python too).
> I need to transmit data and signal (hey ! data available, do your job !)
> in an asynchronous way from the Zope app (in an external method) to the
> python running process (that runs for another user).
> The other process waits for the signal, takes given data, does the jobs
> and waits further signal (...)
> I'm 99.9% newbie in process to process communication.
> What packages are helpful for this ?

The two means that come to my mind are:
- named pipes: quite easy to handle, as they are manipulated just like 
files. The problems are that named pipes are quite difficult to synchronize 
if both processes should send data to the other, and that's it's a 
Unix-only solution. All functions manipulating named pipes are built-ins or 
in module os. If you choose that, I may also provide a few simple examples.
- sockets: a bit trickier to handle, but far more practical for two-way 
communications and multi-platform. The Python module to handle them is 
simply socket. There's an example in the library reference (see 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/socket-example.html).

HTH
 - eric -



From tejarex at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 09:11:39 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:11:39 GMT
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work            Sincerly, F
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com> <slrna92f39.150k.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <slrna92l23.10i.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrna92leq.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <B8B76AE7.D16%msx@crs4.it> <B8B793EA.D35%msx@crs4.it>
Message-ID: <uink8.243865$pN4.14594058@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

"Federico Caboni" <msx at crs4.it> wrote in message
news:B8B793EA.D35%msx at crs4.it...
> BTW... I think that's a proof of Python's beauty.
> The statement worked exactly as I espected, and had the same name I
> Expected too...
> I don't think I could just do the same with C pointers ;)

Guessing is fine as long as you make an attempt to correct mistakes by
reading basic materials before asking publicly.  People are most
willing to help those who try to help themselves first by exploring
the resources readily available.

Terry J. Reedy





From gh_pythonlist at gmx.de  Fri Mar 15 02:39:11 2002
From: gh_pythonlist at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:39:11 +0100
Subject: Dear Guru,    I have added def and it doesnt work Sincerly, F
In-Reply-To: <B8B76AE7.D16%msx@crs4.it>
References: <cdf006ce.0203141656.57c391c2@posting.google.com> <slrna92f39.150k.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <slrna92l23.10i.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrna92leq.6n5.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <B8B76AE7.D16%msx@crs4.it>
Message-ID: <20020315073910.GA61354@lilith.hqd-internal>

* Federico Caboni <msx at crs4.it> [2002-03-15 09:09 +0100]:
> I discovered "eval" by guessing....
> I thought something like "It would be cool if existed a statement like
> that".
> I guessed the name too =).
> Well...I agree that this is not the right way to learn Python anyway ;)

At school we had a programming language called COMAL, which basically Pascal
with a more BASIC-like syntax. At the time, I tried to figure out commands we
hadn't learnt yet by examining the interpreter executable with a hex editor. My
logic was that there must be a list of reserved words somewhere, and bingo,
there was 8-)

Gerhard
-- 
This sig powered by Python!
Au?entemperatur in M?nchen: 7.4 ?C      Wind: 2.5 m/s



From laytonjb at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 29 15:57:18 2002
From: laytonjb at bellsouth.net (Jeff Layton)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:57:18 -0500
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
References: <mailman.1017432645.5389.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA4D52E.C2067419@bellsouth.net>

Susan Williams wrote:

> >Hello,
> >
> >   I'm still learning Python and I'm playing around with some
> >code that creates a class. I've mastered that stage already.
> >However, what I want to do is create multiple instances of
> >the class and put them into a list.
> >   If the class is called Bob, then I want to do something like,
> >
> >
> >a = []
> >a[0] = Bob('input1')
> >
> >and so on. Everytime I try something like this I get the following
> >error message:
> >
> >a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
> >IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>
> Yeah, that is definitely a "no go".  You can't refer to a[0]
> because it doesn't exist--a is empty.
>
> >   I also tried it this way,
> >
> >a = []
> >a.append = Bob('localhost')
> >
> >and I get the error message:
> >
> >a[0] = Bob( 'localhost' )
> >IndexError: list assignment index out of range
>
> This is closer.  a itself is an object, and the way you deal
> with it, at least for some functions, is thru its methods.
> append is a method of the list object, so what you really want
> is:
>
> a.append(Bob('localhost'))

This works! If I create a list a that has five elements where
are just instances of Bob, can I "call" a method for a specific
element of the list? I take I can (Jeff sneaks off to experiment
while his wife is napping).

Thanks!

Jeff


>
>
> >
> >TIA,
> >
> >Jeff
>
> susan




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 11:24:11 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:24:11 +0000
Subject: multiline raw input
References: <a2972632.0203151506.536e5f21@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a6tvrc$hfd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

les ander wrote:

> Hi,
> i have a program that takes input from the command line
> however this input is multi-line and will have a lot of backslashes
> I tried using sys.stdin but it ignores the backslashes.
> i tried with raw_input but that only takes in the first line
> 
> can some suggest a remedy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for example:
> i would like to run my program as follows:
> 
>>> myprog.py
> Type in some input (type in '.' to end) :
> \sum_{i=1}^{n} \frac{\sqrt{2}}{\alpha} \infty
> \begin{itemize}
> \item this equation says that
> \end{itemize}
> .

Untested (written in the newsposter :). See if it helps:

print "Type in some input (type in '.' to end) :"
input_list = []
while 1:
  input = raw_input()
  if input == '.': break
  input_list.append(input)

# do whatever you want with input_list...

... Writing some sort of interactive LaTeX prompt here ??


Cheers,

f.


From arthuralbano at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  9 10:24:00 2002
From: arthuralbano at hotmail.com (Arthur Albano)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:24:00 +0900
Subject: [DB-SIG] Passing Unicode strings to Database
Message-ID: <F105CB79BWvwMXMhav80000f198@hotmail.com>

>From: Mikhail Astafiev <mikle at tomsk.net>
>Reply-To: Mikhail Astafiev <mikle at tomsk.net>
>To: db-sig at python.org, python-list at python.org
>Subject: [DB-SIG] Passing Unicode strings to Database
>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:11:17 +0700
>
>[Env: Win2k, Python 1.5.2]
>
>Hi people!
>
>I have a string in Japanese encoded in UTF8. I need to put it into
>database in Unicode form.
>
>import dbi, odbc
>o=odbc.odbc(self.ODBC_name+"/"+self.ODBC_sql_username+"/"+self.ODBC_sql_password)
>c=o.cursor()
>runes = 
>UTF82Runes(string.replace(self.pr_table[row]["description"],"'","''"))
>operator="""INSERT INTO %s VALUES('%s','%s');"""%(self.ODBC_table,
>    int(self.pr_table[row]["pr_no"]),
>    runes.tostring())
>c.execute(operator)    # update database
>
>I'm getting the following error trace:
>
>Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\server.py", line 34, in ?
>     PR.sync_all()
>   File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\PRML\code\prml.py", line 2837, in 
>sync_all
>     self.__sync_with_sql__(i)
>   File "C:\dev\Products\MRATES~1\PRML\code\prml.py", line 2797, in 
>__sync_with_sql__
>     c.execute(operator)    # update database
>TypeError: argument 1: expected string without null bytes, string found
>
>runes is array.array('H') containing Unicode string.
>
>Database string field has "ntext" type. How can I overcome this
>problem?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Mick.

Mikhail,

If the problem is just conversion from UTF-8 to UNICODE, try this:

unicode(string_in_utf8_to_be_converted,'UTF-8')

It returns a unicode string.

Arthur Albano
"Just a Weekend Programmer"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From ron at ire.org  Thu Mar  7 09:59:18 2002
From: ron at ire.org (ron nixon)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 06:59:18 -0800
Subject: very newbie question
Message-ID: <61ff32e3.0203070659.28cf5e1c@posting.google.com>

I've got a script called snakes saved to my c: drive and I want to run
it from IDLE. By when I do file open and run script, I get an invalid
syntax message. Likewise if I write the script in IDLE and hit "run
script" it get a message saying that says "the buffer for Python Shell
is not saved. Please save it first." Soooo. With all that being said.
How do I save a script and then get python to execute it from IDLE(and
where in the documentation is this?)

Thanks in advance


From grante at visi.com  Tue Mar 12 00:24:30 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:24:30 GMT
Subject: Raw Ethernet under Win32?
Message-ID: <slrna8r493.1m3.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

Is there any way to do raw Ethernet packets under Win32 Python?
It doesn't appear that Winsock supports raw Ethernet (and I
know for sure that it's not supported under Win32 by Python's
socket module).

Is there some other Win32 API way to do it?

I've done some googling around and have found a couple
libraries that do ICMP, or let you muck about with the TCP and
IP headers, but none that appear to let an application do
non-IP raw Ethernet frames.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If this is the DATING
                                  at               GAME I want to know your
                               visi.com            FAVORITE PLANET! Do I get
                                                   th' MICROWAVE MOPED?


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar  9 15:58:40 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:58:40 -0500
Subject: PEP 284, Integer for-loops (code bash?)
In-Reply-To: <200203091809.g29I9QtB024853@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPOOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Laura Creighton]
> ...
> 2. Haskell, which I mispelt, shame on me, I know better, is a
>    functional language.
>    ...
>    So, what I meant was 'I wish that Guido had used Haskell's syntax
>    for arithmetic sequences in Python's  for loops'.  That is as
>    follows:
>
>    [1..10]     => [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
>    [1,3..8]    => [1,3,5,7]
>    [1,3..]     => [1,3,5,7,9, ... (infinite sequence)
>
>    This is not restricted to numbers, char works great.
>    ...
> I have probably forgotten something, somebody else can add it.

Easier to point than to retype:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/909806

Note a practical difficulty in adopting this to Python (beyond adding 4 new
method slots to every type that wants to participate):  the frequent Python
range(len(seq)) maps to Haskell [0 .. len(seq)-1], and that's begging for
off-by-1 errors in real life.  Saying that a Python version went "up to but
not including" the right endpoint would be an ugliness of a different sort.

> 3.  Make the time to learn Haskell.  It is simply too much fun.

Yes it is!  Haskell is the most Pythonic of all languages that have nothing
in common with Python.  Well, they do have one thing in common:  they both
drive Scheme True Believeers mad <wink>.

albeit-for-different-reasons-ly y'rs  - tim




From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Sat Mar  2 03:59:50 2002
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:59:50 GMT
Subject: What have I missed with the lists?? Flattening two trees..
References: <m38z9bnbay.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m34rjzmjju.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

ahh if i do 

alist=[]
blist=[]
print a.flatten(alist)
print b.flatten(blist)

instead, it works as it shouldhmm what have I missed? is the default
list to the dig function initialized at first parse, and not runtime
as I thought?

        /Andy
| 
| print a.flatten()
| print b.flatten()
| 
| -- 
|  The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From cce at clarkevans.com  Tue Mar 12 18:24:40 2002
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:24:40 -0500
Subject: RFC PEP candidate:  q'<delim>'quoted<delim> ?
In-Reply-To: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122>; from bokr@oz.net on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 09:50:58AM +0000
References: <a5srm2$254$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20020312182440.A73129@doublegemini.com>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 09:50:58AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
| Problem: How to put quotes around an arbitrary program text?

I would suggest that this is done via indentation, like
YAML.  With indentation you don't need to have an end 
delimiter.

Clark



From jcosby at mindspring.com  Sun Mar 31 11:56:09 2002
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Jon Cosby)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:56:09 -0800
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <a877h5$ivl$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3CA7321A.DF13361A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <a87f3e$mf0$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3CA7321A.DF13361A at engcorp.com...
> Jon Cosby wrote:
> >
> > This is strange. I've added some lines to see where this is failing.
> > You can see below the interpreter is not detecting matches, but they
> > are there, and it is showing them. There is something in
> > word[0] == firstword[i] that's not right or the interpreter isn't
> > understanding. What could possibly be wrong with this?
>
> Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with that, so it must be
> something else's understanding that is wrong... <wink>
>
> > for word in words:
> >    for i in range(lword):
> >       l.append(word[0] + ":" + firstword[i])
> >       if word[0] == firstword[i]:
> >          cols[i].append(word)
> > [...]
> > C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
> > Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "add"
> > 502
> > [[], [], []]
> > ['A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a',
> > 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d', 'A:d', 'A:a', 'A:d',
'A:d',
>
> Are you sure you aren't forgetting case-sensitivity?  I still
> don't really understand your code, but I get a sense from the
> above that you are expecting "AWORD" to equal "aword", which
> is not the case (no pun intended).
>
> If this is true, try using word[0].upper() == firstword[i].upper().
>
> -Peter

Ouch! That's embarassing. Thanks for pointing it out.

Jon




From aahzpy at panix.com  Thu Mar 14 09:46:16 2002
From: aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 09:46:16 -0500
Subject: SF vs. Lynx (was Re: zlib vulnerabilities and python)
References: <mailman.1016066810.14651.python-list@python.org> <uvgbzqto6.fsf@python.net> <a6q9lj$ce7$1@panix1.panix.com> <7xr8mnfdke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <a6qd3o$lan$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <7xr8mnfdke.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <phr-n2002a at nightsong.com> wrote:
>aahzpy at panix.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> OTOH, I still can't submit my stupid bug report AFAICT.  Is there anyone
>> who uses Lynx to access SF?
>
>Yes, I do sometimes.

Have you ever submitted a bug report using Lynx?  If yes, what version
are you using?

To people who have suggested other text-mode browsers: my experience is
that they don't support the vi-like functionality that Lynx does, which
makes them difficult to use.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  --Aahz


From ak at silmarill.org  Tue Mar 26 22:53:12 2002
From: ak at silmarill.org (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:53:12 GMT
Subject: list of empty lists
References: <3CA11A5B.5000501@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnaa2gk4.qed.ak@ak.silmarill.org>

In article <3CA11A5B.5000501 at bioeng.ucsd.edu>, Curtis Jensen wrote:
> Is there a easy way to make a list of an arbitray number of empty lists?
> 
> I can do something like:
> >>> some_number = 3
> >>> l = [[]] * some_number
> >>> l
> [[], [], []]
> 
> Unfortunatly this has an unfortunate side affect.  Whatever I do to one 
> of the list gets done to the other lists. ie:
> >>> l[0].append(1)
> >>> l
> [[1], [1], [1]]
> 
> 
> In this case, what I would like is three independantly empty lists.  I 
> can make a for loop to loop "some_number" of times and append an empty 
> list at each itteration.  Is there a simpler way?
> Thanks.
>
I think loop is the simplest way.

> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From scott2237 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 23:40:39 2002
From: scott2237 at yahoo.com (googlePoster)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:40:39 GMT
Subject: trouble testing for existance of variable
References: <4bbaa6d6.0203121352.4358f14@posting.google.com> <mailman.1015972703.8850.python-list@python.org> <Exyj8.11281$f33.2556230824@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <a6okea$4ng$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <aRVj8.65776$UB2.2422621287@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>

I tried

try:
   ct = vim.exists("colors_name")        # doesn't work when not defined
except vim.error:
   curr_color = "none"

if ct > 0:
   curr_color = vim.eval('colors_name')

and got

AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'exists'

apparently 'exists' is supported in vim, but not python's
portal to it




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Mar 20 23:43:43 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:43:43 -0500
Subject: #define equivalents and config files
References: <mailman.1016530410.32451.python-list@python.org> <3C9963BD.1040304@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3C9964FF.46805590@engcorp.com>

Rich Salz wrote:
> 
> > Is there a pythonic way of doing something similiar to Cs #define?
>  >... are globals the only way to go?
> 
> You can at least make them class attributes
>         class constants:
>                 pi = 3.14159
>                 e = 2.71828
> adding your own setattr can serve to make them read-only.

That wouldn't help when one needed to change the values...

;-)


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:53 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:40:53 +1100
Subject: RFC: logging module message hub and user interfaces
Message-ID: <200203280341.DAA18129@crown.off.ekorp.com>

This is a Request For Comments on my proposed message hub and user interface 
plan at http://mechanicalcat.net/tech/pylogging/.


Abstract
--------

This document describes a proposed log message hub ("hub") and user interface 
("UI") to complement the logging system described in PEP 282 and implemented
in the python logging system.

The hub and UI would perform the following duties:

- accept messages from the logging module via the logging module's handlers
  (FileHandler, SocketHandler, SyslogHandler, SMTPHandler, NTEventLogHandler,
  SQLHandler)
- redistribution of messages to other targets (just plucking ideas from the
  ether here) ...  all the above Handlers, ElvinHandler, OpenviewHandler,
  SunViewManagerHandler, JabberHandler, SMSHandler
- perform some action on incoming messages, possibly aggregating, dropping or
  forwarding
- have state which would be affected by the actions and may cause new
  messages to be generated (ie. escalation)
- present a display of the messages to a user, either graphically or
  textually (the most basic of these would resemble the UNIX tail -f)

**Note**: it is not the intention of this proposal to implement a monitoring
system like EDDIE. Monitoring of systems is performed by other components
which generate log messages. It is the intention of this proposal to present
those messages to users in meaningful and useful ways.

**Note**: it is not the intention of this proposal to add this functionality
to the core logging implementation of PEP 282. The implementation of this
proposal would form a separate installation of software.



     Richard



From mxp at dynalabs.de  Wed Mar  6 08:29:57 2002
From: mxp at dynalabs.de (Michael Piotrowski)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:29:57 +0100
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
 <x6664aai3k.fsf@notus.mii.dynalabs.de>
 <1015388069.929994@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <x63czd963u.fsf@notus.mii.dynalabs.de>

weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:

> Michael Piotrowski (mxp at dynalabs.de) wrote:
> : aCC is the C++ compiler; the unbundled ANSI C compiler is cc. But
> : since the OP was able to compile Python, I doubt he used the bundled
> : compiler--you wouldn't get that far with a K&R compiler, I think.
>
> In the Makefile, the compiler was "cc -Ae", which is the ANSI
> compiler plus extensions.  However, in "configure", plain old cc was
> used, and that is the K&R compiler in HP-UX 10.2 (but not in HP-UX
> 11).  This is the compiler that misunderstood the indented compiler
> directives.

When the ANSI C compiler is installed, cc always calls this compiler,
but without -Aa or -Ae it operates in K&R mode on 10.20.  To ensure
that -Ae is always used, you can either say

   CC='cc -Ae' ./configure

or you can set

   export CCOPTS=-Ae

The CCOPTS environment variable is also very handy for adding
additional include paths, etc. for cc.

> : My guess is that, like this problem, most problems on HP-UX are in
> : configure. 10.20 and threads is, ahem, a bit problematic; the DCE
> : threads are _not_ POSIX threads.
>
> It sounds like I'm lucky that my Python 1.5.2 threads are working on
> HP-UX 10.2!  I should perhaps just be content with that?

That's not what I meant ;-) If a program supports DCE threads, no
problem.  But if a program thinks you've got POSIX threads while you
really only have DCE threads you'll run into trouble.

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                                  <mxp at dynalabs.de>


From gerhard at bigfoot.de  Sun Mar 17 13:55:28 2002
From: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:55:28 GMT
Subject: Gumbie: a GUI Generator for Jython
References: <3C94E29F.A48FE107@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrna99pku.1eav.gerhard@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Ron Stephens wrote in comp.lang.python:
> [...] I think there must be lots of "non programmers" who want to
> find an easy way to convert simple command line Python scripts into
> simple GUI input-output programs. Python makes writing simple
> command line scripts easy enough for part time duffers; but how to
> create the gui??? I haven't' checked out easy gui yet, [...]

I've never heard of "easy gui", but what you probably mean is anygui.
It's designed exactly for simple GUI programs, and it has several
backends, including curses, Tk, wxPython, PyQt, Java and others.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    OpenPGP public key id 86AB43C0
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From tim at lesher.ws  Mon Mar 11 15:20:50 2002
From: tim at lesher.ws (Tim Lesher)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 12:20:50 -0800
Subject: Rule Engine in Python
References: <eb612768.0203101940.5565b282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b6562547.0203111220.793a9e44@posting.google.com>

lee.ingram at 432one.com (Lee Ingram) wrote in message news:<eb612768.0203101940.5565b282 at posting.google.com>...
> I have used Google to scour the web looking for an implementation of a
> rules engine using Python. 

The book Programming Python: Second Edition has an implementation of a
rules engine called 'holmes' on its CD.  You might want to check that
out.

-- 
Tim Lesher
tim at lesher.ws


From mwh at python.net  Sun Mar  3 11:55:02 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:55:02 GMT
Subject: Useful, robust shell utilities
References: <F4Kf8.492$Az6.1763@news.hananet.net> <a5obj3$18di$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <uelj1vb9m.fsf@python.net>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

> Quoth Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu>:
> | I tried to use the shutil module... and to tell you the truth, it stinks. 
> | Is there an effort to make a robust, useful shutil module that has the 
> | equivalent of the unix shell utilities?
> 
> Go ahead.  Then keep an eye out on comp.lang.python, and after some
> years pass finally someone will mention it:  "it stinks", they'll
> say, with no particular explanation.

To those who've tried to use shutil, no explanation is needed, IMHO.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  BUGS   Never use this function.  This function modifies its first
         argument.   The  identity  of  the delimiting character is
         lost.  This function cannot be used on constant strings.
                                    -- the glibc manpage for strtok(3)


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 03:20:34 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:20:34 -0600
Subject: [ANN] UNBABTIZED - The language
In-Reply-To: <poZi8.8$ID.55@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLKEJKDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> I hereby nominate this for a quote-of-the-week.
> 
> "Obviously it's a multithreaded web server."

Usually this works, but in this case it's so obscure I can't
really find a way to use it...  keep up the suggestions, though.

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sun Mar 31 08:54:09 2002
From: thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Trung Hoang)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:54:09 GMT
Subject: relational database?
References: <pRzp8.4373$hi7.15765@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <m3eli1m2dt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5yEp8.5051$hi7.18667@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

where can i get this ?

cheers


"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3eli1m2dt.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:
>
> > What relational database is easy to setup and use with python?
>
> Gadfly.  It is a pure-Python database, and requires little
> administrative interaction.  It does not provide good performance,
> though...
>
> Regards,
> Martin




From ark at research.att.com  Sat Mar 30 10:56:15 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 10:56:15 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 285: Adding a bool type
In-Reply-To: <200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <200203300539.g2U5dAR17743@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<008f01c1d7da$5c32f3d0$0202a8c0@boostconsulting.com>
	<200203301347.g2UDlYZ01650@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <yu99adsqxd5s.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

>> 6) Should we eventually remove the inheritance relationship
>> between Int and Bool?

>> I hope so. Bool is-a Int doesn't seem like the right relationship to
>> me, unless perhaps we make Int is-a Long... naah, not even then.

Guido> Hm.  In your favorite language bool is one of the integral types.
Guido> Doesn't that imply pretty much the same thing?

What it really implies is that arithmetic operations on bool values
are permitted and promote to int.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark



From kwg at renre-europe.com  Thu Mar 28 10:58:50 2002
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 15:58:50 +0000
Subject: vwait in Python?
In-Reply-To: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis>
References: <1017315455.8141.1.camel@lewis>
Message-ID: <1017331130.486.8.camel@lewis>

On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 11:37, Ken Guest wrote:
> Anybody know if there's an equivalent to TCL's vwait keyword in Python?

So is there no way, short of a 2 line while statement, to have code
hang around until the value of some variable has been changed?

I have tried using variations of the simple while statement, but they
only result in the application hanging (going into an infinite loop
no doubt).


k.

-- 
Beware the fury of a patient man
                   - John Dryden




From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Mar  2 09:16:35 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Mar 2002 15:16:35 +0100
Subject: a simple 'else' decrease speed by 1000 times.
References: <3C80BBAC.2060600@student.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns91C59BFDB1196cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

husam <h.jehadalwan at student.kun.nl> wrote in news:3C80BBAC.2060600
@student.kun.nl:
> One else statement decrease speed by 1000 times. Why is that?
...
>                            if prv == n[i][-1]:
>                                 n[i].append(new)
>                                 print count, '\t', i , '\t',n[i]
>                                 count = count +1
>                                 break
>                            else:
>                                 n[i].append(0)

'cause your not "break"-ing here? but you do in the "if-then" part...

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From ifls at rz.tu-clausthal.de  Tue Mar 19 04:50:47 2002
From: ifls at rz.tu-clausthal.de (Lutz Schroeer)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 09:50:47 GMT
Subject: Pure python alternative to mx.DateTime?
References: <a76u45$2iro$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de> <3C97007D.6000605@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <a771ln$2kqk$1@ariadne.rz.tu-clausthal.de>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
: Lutz Schroeer wrote:

: I just looked at it, and it doesn't seem to be dependent on anything in 
: Zope.

Seems to be the solution to my problem :) Wouldn't have found it by
myself...

Thanks
Lutz



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 06:14:23 2002
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 15 Mar 2002 03:14:23 -0800
Subject: jython for a large-scale web site?
References: <b03e80d.0203140059.5c16cde8@posting.google.com> <3C90E693.3080600@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0203150314.21c7796a@posting.google.com>

Michael Str?der wrote:
> Also check out http://pywx.idyll.org/

Thanks for the reference. I've looked into pyWX before when it was
still a wee promising little project, it seems to have progressed
quite a bit since then, but I think it will be difficult making the
case to move to a platform that is still not past the 1.0 beta stage.

It's certainly a cool project nonetheless, and definitely worth a
serious test.

Sandy


From jafo-nclug at tummy.com  Thu Mar 21 02:28:07 2002
From: jafo-nclug at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:28:07 -0700
Subject: rpm-python question
In-Reply-To: <3C8CAEDF.697CEA3F@quasarlabs.com>; from ira@quasarlabs.com on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 03:19:27PM +0200
References: <3C8CAEDF.697CEA3F@quasarlabs.com>
Message-ID: <20020321002807.E18433@tummy.com>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 03:19:27PM +0200, Ira Voitashevskaya wrote:
>I need to use rmp module (rpm-python-4.0.1-0.20). Where can I get
>docmentation for it?

Ha ha ha...  Documentation on Red Hat software.  That's a good one...

Try getting the source code to rpmlint, which is written in Python, and
figure things out from there...  It's actually not that hard to figure out
by poking around -- that's what I had to do.

Sean
-- 
 moshez always wanted to invent a compression scheme called "feather",
 so he could tar and feather his files.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From work at infomaniak.ch  Thu Mar 21 02:45:13 2002
From: work at infomaniak.ch (BRINER Cedric)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:45:13 +0100
Subject: eval of a private attribute
Message-ID: <3C998F89.66DB1290@infomaniak.ch>

hi,
I'd like to create a method which will be able to get
any attribute of the class.

Unfortunately this example is not working:


class CObsFile:
  __user="~briner/big/usr.rdb"
  __location="~genevay/system/location"
  def get(self,var):
    tobeEval ='self.__'+var
    print 'toBeval: '+tobeEval
    p=eval(tobeEval)
    print 'Evaluated: '+p
    return p

p=CObsFile()
p.get('user') 

any idea why


From til1li.iili1i1li1_il at email.it  Sat Mar 30 03:02:44 2002
From: til1li.iili1i1li1_il at email.it (til1li.iili1i1li1_il at email.it)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 03:02:44 -0500
Subject: When will your website be finished?
Message-ID: <E16rDpj-0001rr-00@mail.python.org>

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From brueckd at tbye.com  Fri Mar  1 14:56:34 2002
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:56:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hotmail
In-Reply-To: <d5534716.0203011007.4cfeb8b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203011151250.17987-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 1 Mar 2002, Ed wrote:

> im just wondering whether it is possible to access hotmail thru python
> so that i have a far quicker way of checking my emails. can telnetlib
> do this?

If you're on Windows (and have either ActiveState Python or Mark Hammond's
win32all extensions) then you can use COM to create a web browser instance
and use its DOM interface to navigate. I made a small script to retrieve
my address book this way - I'll try to dig it up and post it, but it's
pretty easy to do from scratch too.

-Dave




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 14 08:59:42 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:59:42 -0600
Subject: Performance problem with filtering
In-Reply-To: <20020314045052.GA550@lilith.hqd-internal>
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A207@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
        <20020314040837.GA403@lilith.hqd-internal>
        <20020314045052.GA550@lilith.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <15504.44238.797183.340103@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    gh>     def append(self, item):
    gh>         self.count[item] = self.count.get(item, 0) + 1
    gh>         self.l.append(item)

As I mentioned in my post, depending on the elements stored in the list you
may have to fiddle with "item" to make it dict-worthy.  Whether simply
slapping str() around it is sufficient, I don't know.  I sort of suspect
not, though it may get you closer to something that works for all types.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar  5 01:32:14 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 05 Mar 2002 07:32:14 +0100
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <m3bse3frtd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:

> Is HP-UX 10.2 deprecated for more recent versions of Python?

Not specifically. HP-UX is deprecated :-) Seriously, it is only as
good on any platform as Python users care about it being. None of the
regular Python contributors has access to HP-UX, so any problem
reported and any patch suggested is hearsay. Unfortunately, the
patches often tend to break things on systems that the patch authors
have no access to. Sometimes, patches must be rejected because they
*obviously* break things on other systems, so the problem that the
patch submitter wanted to fix remains unfixed.

> PS: Here's the problem with the Python 2.2 ./configure for HP-UX 10.2.  To
> determine if _POSIX_THREADS is defined in unistd.h, it runs the C
> preprocessor on a file with the contents:
> 
> #include <unistd.h>
>      #ifdef _POSIX_THREADS
>      yes
>      #endif
> 
> Unfortunately, with the C preprocessor invocation used by ./configure, the
> indented #ifdef is not recognized, which results in the #ifdef construct
> being mindlessly echoed, which is erroneously interpreted as the answer
> "yes".  This causes _POSIX_THREADS to not be defined in pyconfig.h,
> resulting in a bunch of undefined thread-related functions at link time.

What C compiler? I doubt that aCC (which is available for 10.20 as
well) has this problem; do not use the bundled C compiler for anything.

Regards,
Martin


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Mar 30 03:01:42 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 03:01:42 -0500
Subject: Where is/What happened to ActivePython (PythonWin) 2.2 ?!
In-Reply-To: <3CA39BC1.59873E78@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBGOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David Ascher]
> I'm not going to discourage anyone from learning about installers, but
> let me just warn you that it's a lot of work to make a nice installer.

That doesn't matter.  What does matter is that, at least for Windows
installers, it's insanely boring and frustrating work, and no matter many
years you work on it, it still fails on French Windows 2000 or Arabic
Windows XP Professional Server Special Edition Service Pack 1 from a Power
User but not an Administrator account if the Windows drive isn't C: or K:
(there's something about hard consonants I haven't figured out).

> Tim already spends a lot of time on installers that I for one would
> rather see him spend on things that the rest of us can't do =).

Like this!  I can't explain it.  When I was a kid I always failed at this,
but about 10 years ago I tried it on a whim, and it works every time now:  I
can pat my head with one hand and rub my belly in circles with the other.  I
can change the direction of rotation without missing a beat, and also switch
hands so that the rotating hand becomes the head-patting hand and vice
versa.  There seem to be very few people who can do this as gracefully as I,
let alone look so dignified while doing it.  This is also a lot of work, but
it's fascinating and rewarding work.

> ActivePython's new installer does 'feature selection', so you can choose
> to install all, some or none of Mark's code; it also does the PATHEXT
> tweaks, we have an integrated CHM file which includes a lot of extra
> docs (the what's new, the HOWTOs, etc.).

For the record, ActivePython's installers are nicer than mine, and people
waiting for PythonLabs to take on MSI technology will most likely die
waiting.  The only reason to use the PythonLabs installer is if you don't
want your disk filled with secret ActiveState spyware.  Oops!  I think I
just started a baseless rumor.  If you deny it, that will only increase
suspicion.  Still, the only real reason I know of to use the PythonLabs
installer instead is if you want an installer released under the same stack
of 42 friendly licenses as Python itself.

> The feature of supporting 'file drops' is one we should definitely look
> at adding.  It's very mac-ish (that's a compliment! =).

I have to get out of the DOS box sometime.  Is this one of those deals where
you tickle a file with that "mouse" thing, and then a dialog box from an
irrelevant program pops up and steals the focus before you can finish what
you started?  I love stuff like that.

most-features-suck-ly y'rs  - tim




From robin at execulink.com  Wed Mar 20 14:16:15 2002
From: robin at execulink.com (robin at execulink.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:16:15 -0500
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <mailman.1015988122.18668.python-list@python.org> <359f85cd.0203191203.2a8e4bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <khnh9ucsra5fsksis34uq70s5m9j7svban@4ax.com>

I'm not at all fond of mixing up HTML and code. For real-world sites
that are not trivially small, this presents a growing maintenance
problem.

Much better, IMO, to keep all of the python code in modules, where it
belongs, and have an simple syntax for mixing the results of executing
code in with a web page. That way the HTML people can do their thing,
and the coders theirs. 

My Wasp templating system does this. Pages look like the following:

=====

<?w include:header('Example page') ?>
<?w execute:banner() ?>

<p>A sample page using Wasp. HTML where HTML belongs; code where code
belongs.</p>

<?w include:footer() ?>

=====

Most of the HTML is hidden away in the include files, which enhances
stylistic conformity. These can be passed parameters for simple
variable content. Anything more complex requires that one execute a
function; any output from this is put directly inline.

Additional tags handle conditional output and macros, but these two
tags are really all you need.

There are certainly lots of templating systems out there. Here's mine:
www.execulink.com/~robin/wasp/readme.html

-----
robin

A rich couple found their ideal pet in a dog that makes e-mail
programs.


From grante at visi.com  Sat Mar 16 00:41:48 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:41:48 GMT
Subject: readline() blocks after select() says there's data??
References: <2b57f654.0203141934.391d1bcc@posting.google.com> <slrna92u5t.8oq.grante@tuxtop.visi.com> <1016173476.645562@yasure> <2b57f654.0203151021.7f709e4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrna95mpk.16c.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <2b57f654.0203151021.7f709e4c at posting.google.com>, wealthychef wrote:
> "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<1016173476.645562 at yasure>...
>> Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
>> ...
>> | When select returns a file descriptor, that means that read()
>> | won't block.  If only a partial line is available, then
>> | readline() will still block.  I doubt that this is going to be
>> | an issue, since your output is probably line-oriented.

> If it is not line-oriented, must I then use select.select combined
> with read(1) and go character by character?

No, you can read all the available data with a single call to
read.  The value you pass to read is just a maximum, and read
will return as much data as it can.

I think this would be an excellent use for a generator. But if
you've never done any co-routine stuff before it can be a bit
disorienting.

> That reminds me, is there a way to get the integer value of a
> character in Python analogous to casting a char to an int in C?

c = "A"
i = ord(c)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did YOU find a
                                  at               DIGITAL WATCH in YOUR box
                               visi.com            of VELVEETA?


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Mar 15 03:15:43 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:15:43 +0100
Subject: Disabling rexec for ActiveScripting in Local Intranet Zone?
References: <a6q3hf$2br$1@nixe.ISAR.net> <3C912376.7020902@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <a6saj7$isv$1@nixe.ISAR.net>

Mark Hammond wrote:

> I have no idea :)  I would expect that if
> IE has set security approriately, then Python
>  would not operate under rexec at all - this is
> certainly what happens for WScript and ASP.

It doesn't. Is there a way to manually
disable rexec? (Like, patching lib/rexec.py). 

> What version of win32all?

win32all-146.exe for python2.2




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Mar 28 15:33:30 2002
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 28 Mar 2002 15:33:30 -0500
Subject: question on struct.calcsize
References: <3ca33d3f.26101031@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <uofh877qd.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek) writes:

> Hi,
> could anyone explain the following, please.
> (Win NT, Python 2.1.1)
> 
> >>> from struct import *
> >>> calcsize("i")
> 4
> >>> calcsize("s")
> 1
> >>> calcsize("si")
> 8

Padding.  When forming a structure, the default will be to add
inter-field padding as dictated by the local compiler/implementation
to improve numeric alignment.  In many cases that will be a 4-byte
(32-bit) boundary for numeric values.  So in your second case, in
order to get the integer aligned on a 4-byte boundary, it padded out
the character.  Note that if you flip the order, you won't need the
alignment (shown below).

The default padding is "native" (implementation specific) but you can
ask for standard alignment which does no padding.  The first character
of each format string can control byte ordering/alignment.  If you use
"=" you'll get standard alignment while not affecting byte order
(which will still be based on your native platform).  Other characters
(<, >, !) control byte ordering in addition to alignment.

Thus:

    Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> from struct import *
    >>> calcsize("i")
    4
    >>> calcsize("s")
    1
    >>> calcsize("si")
    8
    >>> calcsize("is")
    5
    >>> calcsize("=si")
    5

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Mar  1 08:13:18 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:13:18 -0600
Subject: Apology to Bill Gates (was Re: ASV module, CVS modules)
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0203010407.220cba32@posting.google.com>
References: <61ff32e3.0202281525.3e9bb102@posting.google.com>
        <c76ff6fc.0202282132.569aef5a@posting.google.com>
        <c76ff6fc.0203010407.220cba32@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15487.32366.219011.387073@12-248-41-177.client.attbi.com>

    John> Python, starting from a Unix background, where there is evidently
    John> no such thing as an invalid character in a file name, ...

I believe "/" is not allowed in Unix filenames.  Not sure if this is
escapable or not.  I'm not going to take the chance of hosing my laptop's
filesystem to find out. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com - http://www.mojam.com/)



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Mar 16 12:27:27 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:27:27 GMT
Subject: Tkinter BUG: memory loss for tag bindings in Canvas
References: <a6njm0$c8k$1@norfair.nerim.net> <a6q9un$2j5$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3gLk8.25494$n4.5001105@newsc.telia.net>

Eric Brunel wrote:
> To me, this sounds like a bug, doesn't it?

yes.  please post a bug report to the SF bug tracker:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/sf-faq.html#bugs

thanks /F




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 31 22:21:47 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:21:47 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017531239.13331.python-list@python.org> <a871lv$a3i$2@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <3CA79606.A0C1B055@python.org>
Message-ID: <3CA7D24B.14E17A03@alcyone.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:

> The main effect this had was to confuse the died-in-the-wool
> programmers; it didn't make any difference for the newbies because
> they had to learn the concepts anyway.  When you come in with a
> blank mind it doesn't matter if a particular concept is called
> "variable" or "waffle" -- you have to learn a new meaning for an
> existing word either way, and the previous meaning you knew for the
> word is barely relevant in the new context.

Couldn't agree more; I mentioned something substantially similar in my
reply.  Inventing new, non-standard terminology in order to be "simpler"
is rarely helpful; it doesn't substantially help newbies, and it only
serves to confuse people actually involved.

As a case of this kind of thinking taken to outrageous extreme, consider
the Mathematics in the Common Tongue Web site:

	http://www.earth360.com/mathtongue.html

When the idea is taken to this kind of bizarre level, the end result
almost feels like one of those antiknowledge languages you read about in
science fiction, like Newspeak.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl  Sun Mar 24 08:49:43 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAMREMOVETHISxs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:49:43 +0100
Subject: Client/Server Tutorial?
References: <mailman.1016971717.5613.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7klhn$b6o$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

> Is there any good tutorial for creating advanced client/server apps
> (like online games) out there? i tried to make one 2 times, and both

May I suggest you take a look at Pyro;   http://pyro.sourceforge.net
It may be just what you want/need for easy distributed application development.
You don't have to do any network programming when using Pyro.

Irmen de Jong





From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Mar  8 02:23:04 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 02:23:04 -0500
Subject: PEP Parade
In-Reply-To: <7xhenrh87a.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEHMOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Paul Rubin]
> ...
> Is there a method for adding comments to PEP's?

Not unless the PEP author supplies one, and that's something I haven't seen
yet.  PEP 1 describes the PEP process.  You need to get your comments in
front of the PEP author(s).




From joonas at olen.to  Tue Mar 12 15:25:12 2002
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:25:12 +0200
Subject: returning a picture from PIL
References: <a6l8f7$840$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <3C8E6428.945333F9@olen.to>

Peter Posselt Vestergaard wrote:
> 
> Hi
> I would like to show a image on a webpage by calling a python script that
> through the Python Imaging Library (PIL) loads a picture and then returns
> it.
> I'm trying to do it like this:
> In the webpage I write:
> [...]
> <img src="http://www.myserver/myscript.py" height="400" width"=500>
> [...]
> 
> and in myscript.py I write:
> 
> [...]
> pic = Image.open(urllib.urlretrieve(url)[0])
> print "Content-type: image/png\n\n"
> pic.save(sys.stdout,"PNG")
> 
> the page takes some time loading the picture but nothing is ever shown. If I
> change sys.stdout to "filename" the picture is stored perfectly on my disk.
> Anyone who can tell me how to do this kind of output from PIL?

If you're using Windows, the problem might be the "\n" -> "\r\n"
conversion.
To avoid the conversion, you have to invoke python in unbuffered mode
with -u option or use msvcrt module.
Take a look at an useful Python Cookbook recipe at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65443


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Mar 17 12:36:48 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:36:48 +0100
Subject: locale module broken?
References: <3C928042.BA50A5B3@snakefarm.org> <m3r8mls78p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1016239827.26235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j47kob6qq7.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes:

>    I reproduced this behviour on Debian 2.2 with all version of Python -
> 2.0, 2.1 amd 2.2... but only with FR locale. With ru_RU locale it works
> perfectly. It seems glibc has got broken FR locale.

That must have been fixed in more recent versions of glibc then; on
Debian-testing, it works fine.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Mar 29 17:01:06 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:01:06 -0500
Subject: Newbie: List of instances?
References: <mailman.1017432645.5389.python-list@python.org> <3CA4D52E.C2067419@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3CA4E422.B88F6720@engcorp.com>

Jeff Layton wrote:
> 
> > a.append(Bob('localhost'))
> 
> This works! If I create a list a that has five elements where
> are just instances of Bob, can I "call" a method for a specific
> element of the list? I take I can (Jeff sneaks off to experiment
> while his wife is napping).

Not sure if you mean can you call a method to get a specific
element of the list (for that you'd just use brackets: a[2]
returns the third element), or whether you mean can you take
a specific instance and call a method on it: a[2].getHost()
for example... the answer in both cases is, of course,
yes you can. :-)

-Peter


From amuys at shortech.com.au  Mon Mar  4 21:38:18 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 4 Mar 2002 18:38:18 -0800
Subject: more functional programming
References: <3C83EF44.A44E595C@gol.ge>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203041838.17b9d523@posting.google.com>

Giorgi Lekishvili <gleki at gol.ge> wrote in message news:<3C83EF44.A44E595C at gol.ge>...
> Hi all!
> 
> Please, accept my appologies for this naive question.
> 
> I have taken a careful look on the operator module docs. The module
> enables one to make procedures as lists. That's too good.
> 
> However, is there already something like scheme's "define" abstractor?
> This'd be used as the first element of such list, yielding the result of
> the procedure...
> 
> Is this, or anything similar, already present in Python? If not, does
> someone of the Python gurus plan to do so?
> 

I may be corrected, but afaik the answers no.  OTOH, you can easily
write a class that can wrap a list of functions and call them in
sequence.  In fact it's also relatively trivial to emulate a moduleish
interface to a set of such functions

ie.

class FakeModule:
    def __init__(self):
        self.funcs = {}

    def define(self, flist):
        self.funcs[flist[0]] = flist[1:]

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return FakeFunction(self.funcs[name])

class FakeFunction:
    def __init__(self, flist):
        self.flist = flist

    def __call__(self, *args):
        for f in self.flist:
            if args == None:
                args = ()
            args = apply(f, args)


Note that FakeFunction will do what you wanted with define.  The
FakeModule provides a namespace for such functions to live in.  I
would be inclined to pass the function name seperately from the
function list, but that would be a further departure from the define
semantics.  eg.

def define(self, fname, flist):
        self.funcs[fname] = flist

An example of use (including arg chaining):

>>> def f1():
	print 'f1 called'
	return ('f1',)

>>> def f2(arg):
	print 'f2 called after',arg
	return (arg,'f2')

>>> def f3(arg1, arg2):
	print 'f3 called after',arg1,'and',arg2
	return (arg1, arg2, 'f3')

>>> mod = FakeModule()
>>> flist = ['f123', f1, f2, f3]
>>> mod.define(flist)
>>> mod.f123()
f1 called
f2 called after f1
f3 called after f1 and f2

Andrae

ps. It would be nice if apply() interpreted args=None as args=(), but
it's only a minor annoyance, and the if statement covers it.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Mar 10 22:36:14 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Mar 2002 03:36:14 GMT
Subject: should i learn it first ?
References: <NAmi8.54548$xG.5157@news2.bloor.is> <slrna8mogf.6ek.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <a6g7ra$lm6$1@panix2.panix.com> <oBTi8.1475$523.127893@ozemail.com.au> <a6h4sp$r45$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <a6h8ne$lg3$0@216.39.172.122>

On 10 Mar 2002 18:30:49 -0800, aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:

>In article <oBTi8.1475$523.127893 at ozemail.com.au>,
>Patrick <netlangau at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
>>news:a6g7ra$lm6$1 at panix2.panix.com...
>>>
>>> But are there any tasks for which C++ (or C++/Python) is really better
>>> than C/Python?
>>
>>One example is an extremely complex and long-running simulation in which the
>>time-critical components are a very substantial chunk of the project. In
>>those (rare) situations you need ruthless efficiency with slightly better
>>than rudimentary abstraction capabilities. C++ fits the bill, but only if
>>every processor cycle and every byte counts.
>
>Right, and if you've got a project like that, you'd better have someone
>like Alex Martelli handy, because otherwise your C++ program will bloat
>with every advanced C++ feature you use.  I'd bet that 90% of so-called
>C++ programmers would do far better in this case with C/Python.
>
I think a lot of bloat comes because C++ facilitates building libraries of
complex objects, and people will do the equivalent of buying that big red
rolling multidrawer metric/English super mechanic's dream tool chest, when
all they needed was a socket wrench. The cost of #include is not proportionately
perceptible. Yet sometimes the choice is buy the set or make the wrench yourself.

It would be interesting to how many object methods in a large application could
harmlessly be replaced with YAGNI assertions, even with smart linkers. After all,
they can't be smart enough to know whether a path that has a reference will ever
be entered, if it's data dependent, whereas the programmer might know very well
and yet be helpless to prevent the linkage of a big useless chunk of library.

It all depends ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gregory.p.green at boeing.com  Fri Mar  1 15:14:53 2002
From: gregory.p.green at boeing.com (Greg Green)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:14:53 GMT
Subject: Want to monitor process..
References: <87550ef1.0202272315.15779bbd@posting.google.com> <f2lf8.385$Az6.1854@news.hananet.net> <97ae44ee.0202280901.3153bdfc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x6mzo1sf3k2.fsf@skorch.rt.cs.boeing.com>

If you are using a unix OS, I would suggest using daemontools from Bernstein. It
has a set of tools for supervising a process. I use it all of the time for these
sorts of problems.

http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html

-- 

Greg Green
Advanced Design Systems
Math & Computing Technology
Boeing



From logstx at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar  6 17:10:53 2002
From: logstx at bellatlantic.net (logistix)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:10:53 GMT
Subject: Nested scopes: design or implementation?
References: <vcfh8.405$tL.70@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <3czdq05v.fsf@vfa.com>
Message-ID: <Ntwh8.2920$J3.429@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

Okay, now I'm confused.

I was perfectly happy with Teddy Reedy's explaination that def is an
expression and not a declaration.

But if I'm following you, the embedded attribute function isn't being
recompiled to bytecode each time function() is called.  If the code object
is only getting created once, then why are the defaults getting
recalculated?

--
-

<mmillikan at vfa.com> wrote in message news:3czdq05v.fsf at vfa.com...
> Note that the <func_code> object is shared by each of the inner
> <function> objects:
>
> text = "random text"
> def function():
>     def attribute( bindNow = text):
>         print bindNow
>     function.attribute = attribute
>
> Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
> >>> function()
> >>> function.attribute()
> random text
> >>> function.attribute
> <function attribute at 01A7930C>
> >>> function.attribute.func_code
> <code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\\python-YYAS0o", line 3>
>
> >>> function()
> >>> function.attribute.func_code
> <code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\python-YYAS0o", line 3>
>
> >>> text = 'new random text'
> >>> function()
> >>> function.attribute
> <function attribute at 01A450CC>
> >>> function.attribute.func_code
> <code object attribute at 01A79F48, file "c:\python-YYAS0o", line 3>
>
> Mark Millikan




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Mar 21 16:20:30 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Mar 2002 16:20:30 -0500
Subject: mutlifile inheritance problem
References: <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7diqu$7am$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <9896e047.0203211303.741f695a at posting.google.com>,
Marc <maurelius01 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>************************
>file cbase01.py:
>
>class CBase:
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.cclass = None
>        print "cbase"
>
>class CImStream(CBase):
>    def __init(self):
>        CBase.__init__(self)
>        print "CImStream"
>
>*************************
>in file wrappers_A01.py: 
>
>import cbase01
>reload(cbase01)
>
>class ImStream_SavedBitmaps(cbase01.CImStream):
>    def __init__(self):
>        cbase.CImStream.__init__(self)
>        print "SavedBitmaps"

Try:

    def __init__(self):
        cbase01.CImStream.__init__(self)

Why are you using reload(), anyway?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"We should forget about small efficiencies, about 97% of the time.
Premature optimization is the root of all evil."  --Knuth


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Mar 30 22:51:49 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Mar 2002 22:51:49 -0500
Subject: Most important extensions?
Message-ID: <a8614l$dfa$1@panix1.panix.com>

I'm teaching Python for [Perl] Programmers at OSCON this July.  I've
already decided to mention mxODBC, NumPy, and PIL, plus PythonPoint (aka
ReportLab) gets a mention on my title page.  I'd like this group to vote
on the most important extensions for me to add to this list.  Please vote
for no more than three.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From kendall at monkeyfist.com  Mon Mar 11 16:34:07 2002
From: kendall at monkeyfist.com (Kendall Clark)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:34:07 -0600
Subject: python and haskell for fun
In-Reply-To: <b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com>
References: <b03e80d.0203100136.74910e87@posting.google.com>
	<klHi8.1311$523.113887@ozemail.com.au>
	<b03e80d.0203100600.2df43d02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15501.8911.362214.989320@cmpu.net>

>>>>> "sandy" == Sandy Norton <sandskyfly at hotmail.com> writes:

  sandy> "Patrick" wrote:
  >> This subset of PASKELL will be clean, beautiful and functional.

  sandy> I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant 'beget a pretty monster' of
  sandy> an application, not a language. The last thing I would want
  sandy> to do is waste time discussing a new hybrid 'PASKELL'
  sandy> language...

I've been daydreaming for about a year of a Python implementation
written in Haskell, which would obviously make writing Python
extensions in Haskell easier (and more elegant, IMO, than writing them
in C or Java).

However, John Paul Skaller did something similar with Ocaml, which he
called Vyper, and that went over in the Py world like a leaden balloon
-- actually it went over about as poorly as Stackless Python did;
which does cause me to wonder what it is about Python culture, if
anything, that's resistant to unusual alternative implementations?. A
Python implementation in Haskell is probably a fool's task. Though
given the various Haskell compilers, including some pretty impressive
parallelizing stuff, it is an interesting idea.

(Ocaml is pretty much Caml + objects; Caml is INRIA's implementation
of ML; in the neighborhood of Haskell, but less syntactially elegant,
IMO.)

At least, a Haskell implementation of Python seems more practical than
a Python implementation of Haskell, which would be rather toylike. But
YMMV.

Best,
Kendall Clark



From kalle at gnupung.net  Wed Mar 20 11:33:30 2002
From: kalle at gnupung.net (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:33:30 +0100
Subject: Popular style document?
In-Reply-To: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
References: <1016641355.370859@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <20020320163330.GA1224@sandra.lysator.liu.se>

[Greg Weeks]
> Is there a popular style document for Python?  I realize that there isn't a
> whole lot of scope for such a thing, but I wondered because of certain
> particular issues that came to mind.

There is PEP 8, http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0008.html.

Peace,
  Kalle
-- 
Kalle Svensson (kalle at gnupung.net) - Laziness, impatience, hubris: Pick two!
English: http://www.gnupung.net/  Svenska: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~kalle/
Stuff: ["http://www.%s.org/" % x for x in "gnu debian python emacs".split()]



From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 10:02:32 2002
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 26 Mar 2002 07:02:32 -0800
Subject: Python embedded like PHP
References: <20020322003738.A273C38F4C@coffee.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1016822555.18333.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0203260702.160260fd@posting.google.com>

Haven't seen anyone mention Cheetah over at
http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/ :

<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE>$title</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY>

<TABLE>
#for $client in $clients
<TR>
<TD>$client.surname, $client.firstname</TD>
<TD><A HREF="mailto:$client.email">$client.email</A></TD>
</TR>
#end for
</TABLE>

</BODY>
</HTML>


Graphical designers can graphically design w/some idea of what it will
look like.

WYSIWYG editors will not vomit or ignore.

It requires minimal overhead re. typing extra characters - follows the
One True Python Way.

And it supports neato oo constructs such as template inheritance.


>From the sample page:

What is the philosophy behind Cheetah? 
Cheetah's design was guided by these principles: 

Python for the back end, Cheetah for the front end. Cheetah was
designed to complement Python, not replace it.

Cheetah's core syntax should be easy for non-programmers to learn. 

Cheetah should make code reuse easy by providing an object-oriented
interface to templates that is accessible from Python code or other
Cheetah templates.

Python objects, functions, and other data structures should be fully
accessible in Cheetah.

Cheetah should provide flow control and error handling. Logic that
belongs in the front end shouldn't be relegated to the back end simply
because it's complex.

It should be easy to separate content, graphic design, and program
code, but also easy to integrate them.
A clean separation makes it easier for a team of content writers,
HTML/graphic designers, and programmers to work together without
stepping on each other's toes and polluting each other's work. The
HTML framework and the content it contains are two separate things,
and analytical calculations (program code) is a third thing. Each team
member should be able to concentrate on their specialty and to
implement their changes without having to go through one of the others
(i.e., the dreaded ``webmaster bottleneck'').

While it should be easy to develop content, graphics and program code
separately, it should be easy to integrate them together into a
website. In particular, it should be easy:


for programmers to create reusable components and functions that are
accessible and understandable to designers.
for designers to mark out placeholders for content and dynamic
components in their templates.
for designers to soft-code aspects of their design that are either
repeated in several places or are subject to change.
for designers to reuse and extend existing templates and thus minimize
duplication of effort and code.
and, of course, for content writers to use the templates that
designers have created.


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Mar 17 16:28:34 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:28:34 -0800
Subject: syntax question: "<>" and "!=" operators
References: <3dd808a4.0203151013.a37d0c4@posting.google.com> <mailman.1016218134.2073.python-list@python.org> <iwtk8.6971$OP.215122@stones> <just-C502B6.08323716032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0203161930.60860d06@posting.google.com> <just-03EFEE.10563317032002@news1.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1016396564.27134.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-9D71CE.13283417032002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1016396564.27134.python-list at python.org>,
 mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.) wrote:

> Nonetheless, I think of the natural language semantics of the
> symbols--or maybe better "insinuations"--prefers '<>' to '!='.  The
> (good) one suggests "is greater than or less than (but not equal to)".
> I know that not everything is technically in an order relation, but it
> still "makes sense" at a first approximation.  The (bad) one looks like
> some odd sort of augmented assignment.  "Hmmm... assign, what?  The
> negation of the right side to the left side?!  The LHS negated with the
> RHS?!"

I disagree -- the "<>" makes sense only if you think about it for real 
numbers, while "!=" matches the way I pronounce the symbol ("not 
equals"), looks visually similar to the way I'd draw the symbol if I had 
a better character set (equal sign with slash through it), and makes 
sense for all types of objects.

But then, while I've switched from Pascal to C and vice versa several 
times, it's been several years since I last worked with Pascal while I 
still use several C-like languages, so maybe I'm biased from that.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From altis at semi-retired.com  Thu Mar  7 22:52:43 2002
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:52:43 -0800
Subject: ANN: Python User Groups page at python.org
Message-ID: <2AWh8.478$eT3.149538@news.uswest.net>

Python User Groups now have their own page on the Python web site:

http://www.python.org/UserGroups.html

If your group isn't listed or if your information is out of date, please
email webmaster at python.org. If your group has a special event you'd like to
see listed on the Events page, please email events at python.org.

User groups are a great way to meet other Python users in your local area.
Why not start one today?

Note, the PUG info used to be a section on the Events page:

http://www.python.org/Events.html

ka




From chris_mk at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 01:59:45 2002
From: chris_mk at hotmail.com (Christopher)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 22:59:45 -0800
Subject: Image in a module question
Message-ID: <cc14131d.0203272259.3d724dc0@posting.google.com>

A while back, I remember somebody mentioning a way to store image data
in a Python module.  This is something I think I could really use (I
want to incorporate an image into an frozen exe that I am writing for
my coworkers).  I would like to keep the installation nice and neat
(--onefile) and I figure the easiest way is to store the image in a
module, import it, then use the string (I am assuming this is what you
would get from the module, I can't remember what the post sais) e.g.,

import MyImageModule
import Image, ImageTk, StringIO

myImage = MyImageModule.MyImage  # Where MyImage is the string
representing the image

im = Image.open(StringIO.StringIO(myImage))
# I can now use im to construct my Tkinter label/button/etc.

I did some searches: PIL, image in module, importing images, etc. and
didn't see the post (it was a lot of pages, i may have just missed
it).  If somebody remembers the post, could you point me to it (just
the date would be a huge help).  Thanks a bunch,

Chris Karim


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Mar 25 20:02:37 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:02:37 -0500
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <20020325113323.A26319@glacier.arctrix.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEJLOHAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017100367.4105.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3C9FC8AD.CD82FEA0@engcorp.com>

Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> 
> Tim Peters wrote:
> > there's generally no reason to suppose that len(iterable) wouldn't be
> > destructive
> 
> Good point.
> 
>   Neil
> 
> PS. tell the bot I'm sorry I doubted the correctness of his code

If it's a bot, you don't have to apologize.  Bots feel no emotion.

And you're safe, too -- remember the First Law.

-objectifying-tim-ly yr's,
Peter


From barghest at wanadoo.fr  Wed Mar 27 04:33:28 2002
From: barghest at wanadoo.fr (Barghest)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:33:28 +0100
Subject: Regex problem ...
Message-ID: <a7s3lu$qfq$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hello,
import re
tagImg = re.compile( r"""(<img\s+src=")\.\./Images/([^"]*)("[^>]*>)""",
re.IGNORECASE | re.MULTILINE | re.DOTALL )

Wanna match ... <img src="../images/FOO.gif" height="12" etc...> and replace
it by
<img src="foo.gif" height="12" ...>

the problem is that i don't know how to lowercase the \g<2> part
bp2.write( tagImg.sub( '\g<1>\g<2>\g<3>', buff ) )

I tried
tagImg.sub( string.lower( '\g<1>\g<2>\g<3>' ), buff )
but it doesen't work ..

Any idea ?




From grante at visi.com  Mon Mar 11 18:44:28 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:44:28 GMT
Subject: wxProgressDialog wonky under Win32
References: <gc6j8.19334$N7.4409910@ruti.visi.com> <qn7j8.19386$N7.4421525@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.1015885644.13105.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wjbj8.19619$N7.4462738@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1015885644.13105.python-list at python.org>, Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:15:34 GMT
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>> According to one of the wx mailing list archives, this is a
>> known bug in the MSW port of wxWindows (the "size" value of a
>> gauge is treated as a 16-bit number).  It's been fixed, but
>> it's still available only from CVS.
> 
> The usual trick I use to get around this is to use a gauge with
> a max of 100 and then update it with the percentage done
> (n/max) rather than the number of items done (n).  This can
> also help performance as you can avoid updating the gauge as
> often if you have a large number of items to process.

Yup. It's a bit incovenient in my case because function calling
the update callback didn't know how much data was to be
processed.  I had to create an extra function that did know the
total size, and pass that to the data-processing function.

It also caused problems because the integer math didn't really
work right and the thing finished when it got to "100" even
though it was really only 99.99.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I was in a HOT
                                  at               TUB! I was NORMAL! I was
                               visi.com            ITALIAN!! I enjoyed th'
                                                   EARTHQUAKE!


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sat Mar  2 21:08:18 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:08:18 +0000
Subject: PEP 276 -- What else could iter(5) mean?
References: <mailman.1015116845.8928.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-E81CC6.17470002032002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <b8138uk3j8h656ptp5b5vmrbctq2222i66@4ax.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:47:00 -0800, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>Here's another way of looking at the same question.
>An iterable object has a next() function, that's what it means to be 
>iterable.  If numbers are iterable, we can call number.next(), right?
>So what should 5.next() be?  Surely anyone familiar with the Peano axioms 
>would say 6, not 0!

As far as i understand 3.next() should give an error. 3 is iterable,
that is, it delivers an iterator in the appropriate context, it is NOT
the iterator itself. To get 0 you would have to do iter(3).next()

P.S: I am a newbie. I like this PEP proposal.



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Mar  4 18:52:45 2002
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:52:45 -0800
Subject: Status of PEP's?
Message-ID: <OFA3962CC3.A72AB5E7-ON88256B72.00814FAB@i2.com>

[James_Althoff]
>
> > "for something" loops over all values of the variable that make
> > "something"  true.
>
> But that kind of definition isn't comprehensive enough because, for
> example, it says nothing about the order of the variables as processed by
> the for-loop.

[Greg Ewing]
> Obviously it doesn't serve as a complete *definition* of
> the semantics, but the complete definition is at least
> consistent with that view, for both "for i in x" and
> "for x < i < y".

Yes, I'll grant "is at least consistent".  But, in the case of the
for-loop, at some point -- rather quickly I suspect -- you are going to
have to leave the realm of relational operators and get right back to
talking about iterators.  Because you're going to have to explain why
    for x <= i <= y:
works and why
    for x <= i and i != y:
is a syntax error.

And why
    for i < rowcount:
uses "i" as the loop variable instead of "rowcount" -- or does it?
    for rowcount < i:
How would Python decide?

And if it can't, then does this mean that the idiom cannot support
shortcuts for the common case of iterating the indices of a list?  So, do
we have to write:
    for 0 <= i < rowcount:
specifying the "0 <=" part every time?

Jim




From p.magwene at snet.net  Fri Mar 15 23:22:58 2002
From: p.magwene at snet.net (Paul Magwene)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 04:22:58 GMT
Subject: Graph Algorithms - Checkout SciLab
References: <pan.2002.03.15.19.52.32.366019.81993@snet.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.03.15.23.22.57.778193.42321@snet.net>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:52:32 -0500, Paul Magwene wrote:

> Hi Y'All,
> 
> Here's a long shot -
> 
> Does anybody happen to have a Python implementation of a minimum-weight
> perfect matching algorithm?  Or a Python interface to one?


OK, to answer my own question.

The free (source included) scientific computing environment SciLab (see
http://www-rocq.inria.fr/scilab/ ) has a quite nice graph algorithms
toolkit called MetaNet which does what I need.  I think I should be able
to pipe commands to SciLab.

In fact, it looks like SciLab has quite nice interfacing capabilities.
Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to write a Python-SciLab interface?
With that and the recently released R interface I might never have to
write an algorithm again! <wink>

Ciao,
Paul


From jason at jorendorff.com  Mon Mar 11 03:07:44 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:07:44 -0600
Subject: Python Equivalent of Perl's Safe module?
In-Reply-To: <20020311080649.GA25930@Ax9.org>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLCEJKDIAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

John Beppu wrote:
> Hello, I was wondering if there was a Python equivalent of Perl's Safe
> module.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-rexec.html

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/



From mwh at python.net  Sun Mar  3 12:01:44 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:01:44 GMT
Subject: [Numpy-discussion] RE: Python 2.2 seriously crippled for numerical computation?
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELMOAAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1015061404.15421.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uadtpvayf.fsf@python.net>

Konrad Hinsen <hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr> writes:

> Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> 
> > > # Python 2.2
> > >
> > > >>> 1e-200**2
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > > OverflowError: (34, 'Numerical result out of range')
> > 
> > That one is surprising and definitely not intended:  it suggests your
> > platform libm is setting errno to ERANGE for pow(1e-200, 2.0), or that your
> > platform C headers define INFINITY but incorrectly, or that your platform C
> > headers define HUGE_VAL but incorrectly, or that your platform C compiler
> > generates bad code, or optimizes incorrectly, for negating and/or comparing
> 
> I just tested and found the same behaviour, on RedHat Linux 7.1
> running on a Pentium machine. Python 2.1, compiled and running on the
> same machine, returns 0. So does the Python 1.5.2 that comes with the
> RedHat installation. Although there might certainly be something wrong
> with the C compiler and/or header files, something has likely changed
> in Python as well in going to 2.2, the only other explanation I see
> would be a compiler optimization bug that didn't have an effect with
> earlier Python releases.

A random memory byte suggests that whether Python links with -lieee or
not affects this behaviour.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a
  pencil with a blunt axe.  It is equally vain to try to do
  it with ten blunt axes instead.
      -- E.W.Dijkstra, 18th June 1975. Perl did not exist at the time.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 10 14:30:01 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 10 Mar 2002 20:30:01 +0100
Subject: HTML -> XML: Where's HtmlBuilder()?
References: <a6g2t0$pb2$1@rex.ip-plus.net>
Message-ID: <m3d6ycrzk6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:

> Is HtmlBuilder() deprecated?

It is not supported in PyXML 0.6 and later anymore, since the entire
DOM implementation has been replaced with 4DOM.

> Which module was it replaced with?

Try xml.dom.ext.reader.HtmlLib.

> What else could I use to convert HTML to XML?

Depends on what you want the conversion to do. If you want to convert
HTML to XHTML, I think HTMLTidy can do that for you.

> Do I need additional modules for this?
> Or am I already prepared w/o knowing it?

If you want to use 4DOM, yes, you should have everything you need.

> For those who are curious - the big picture:
[...]
> A Shaper applies an XSL file to the HTML pages to make them all look equally
> formatted (this is where I am stuck now). 

If you have control over the source HTML files, why don't you just
require that they are XHTML? That would simplify processing
significantly.

Regards,
Martin


From jason at jorendorff.com  Fri Mar  8 03:35:34 2002
From: jason at jorendorff.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:35:34 -0600
Subject: how to give an object as argument for a method
In-Reply-To: <002d01c1c5e0$2b225120$0101010a@local>
Message-ID: <HFEKILOLEFEFMKAECNDLGENJDHAA.jason@jorendorff.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Isn't it Java that uses an implicit "this" variable, or
> is that Javascript?

Java, JavaScript, C++, Ruby, Smalltalk, Objective C...

## Jason Orendorff    http://www.jorendorff.com/




From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 08:28:39 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:28:39 +0000
Subject: Slice objects. How to apply them to strings?
References: <upl4auo0ll9o99skacavmaf9cnnbh2qae4@4ax.com> <04g9au4kn4dtg92584l12n0ut001c7rb9m@4ax.com> <a832ti$ujq$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <t4dbauk9ngamvfqphkteev33m0f333a5up@4ax.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>Why not subclass str? Here is a toy:

This will need to run on machines with Python 2.1 but it may be that I
can't get it right with 2.1. I haven't investigated yet but I'm hoping
this will be much easier with 2.2.


--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Mar  7 00:09:57 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:09:57 -0500
Subject: hash(unicode(string)) == hash(string) sometimes (was Re: Why
 KeyError ???)
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0203061510.53d5a91b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEAHOCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Machin]
> ...
> BTW, I'm not so sure of the utility of hash(1) == hash(1.0)

Which also equals hash(1L) and hash(1+0j).  In Guido's mind <wink>, these
are all "numbers", and equal numbers should have equal hashes.

> --- why on earth would anyone want to use floats as keys in a dictionary,
> anyway?

For example, I've often seen rounded Unix timestamps used as dict keys, to
map "representative time" to a list of events seen at that time.  A
generalization uses float-keyed dicts to build histograms, after reducing
the domain to bins at the desired granularity.

> Eveything one reads on floating-point fulminates against equality
> testing. Seems like extra code and extra run-time for little benefit.

The extra code is confined to the internal routine _Py_HashDouble(), and
most of that routine is scratching its head over how to get *any* reliable
hash code for a C double (C doesn't the expose the bits, and fp formats can
and do vary across platforms).  The code to ensure that it matches the hash
code for a "compares equal" int or long is about a dozen lines.

If you're indeed correct that floatish numbers have no use as dict keys,
this routine is never executed, so a claim of "extra runtime" would swallow
itself in embarrassment <wink>.




From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Mar 27 15:58:04 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:58:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new to python...
In-Reply-To: <a7t818+bgce@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20020327125804.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On 27-Mar-2002 wilby31 wrote:
> Im running Linux and I would like to run a filename.py file..how do I
> go about running this program?  through the command line ?  I have
> version 1.5.2 and I do not have the control to upgrade it.  thanks 
> 

make sure the first line of the file looks like:

#!/usr/bin/python

(the path may be different)

then you do 'chmod +x filename.py'.  Now you can run it by typing
'./filename.py' or '/path/to/filename.py'.



From jcosby at mindspring.com  Sat Mar 30 08:34:52 2002
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Jon Cosby)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:34:52 -0800
Subject: List problem
References: <a82mlc$ja1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xU6p8.28161$VJ1.2411615@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <a84eu0$g8t$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tejarex at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xU6p8.28161$VJ1.2411615 at bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
>
> "Jon Cosby" <jcosby at mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:a82mlc$ja1$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> > Can anyone se why this is coming up empty in the "cols" list? I've
> tried
> > something similar in the interpreter, and everything here looks
> right.
>
> What happens if you paste exactly this text into the interpreter (on
> PC, turn off fast pasting)?  (Answer: syntax errors, see below.)
>
> ######################################################################
> ##
> > # WordSquare
> > # Build word squares from initial word
>
> > # Word dictionary
> > dict = "c:\data\dict.txt"
>
> As I said elsewhere, use forward slashes / to be safe, concise, and
> more portable.
>
> > firstword = input("Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): ")
>
> firstword = raw_input("Enter first word (do not enclose in quotes): ")
> is safer and easier for user.
>
> > lword = len(firstword)
> > words = []
> > cols = []
> > rows = []
> >
> > f = open(dict, "r")
> > for line in f.readlines():
> >  if len(line[:-1]) == lword:
> >   words.append(line[:-1])
> #  add 'word = line[:-1]' before if and sub in nect too two lines
> slightly faster
>
> > f.close()
> Need blank line to run interactively
>
> If words were sorted by len, you could read in only those of proper
> length
>
> > for i in range(lword):
> >  cols.append([])
> >  rows.append([])
>
> > rows[0].append(firstword)
> >
> > # Generate an array of words with matching first letters
> > for i in range(lword):
> >  for word in words:
> >    if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found
> >    cols[i].append(word)
>
> As written, without indent of 'cols...' after 'if', this has a syntax
> error.
> This suggests that this is not exactly the file that produced the
> output below.
>
> If words of given length were sorted, you could grab just those
> needed.
>
> > print len(words)
> > print cols
> >
> >
> ######################################################################
> >
> > C:\Python21>python projects\wordsquare.py
> > Enter first word (enclosed in quotes): "hello"
> > 4220
> > [[], [], [], [], []]
>
> Try print words[0:10] to see what actually iterating through.
>
> # I pasted following into interpreter and got output marked by #
>
> firstword = "cow" # cow, ore, wee/wet make square
> lword = len(firstword)
> words = ['act', 'art', 'boo', 'cat', 'cad', 'coo', 'cow', 'oft',
> 'opt',
> 'ore', 'wee', 'wet']
> cols = []
> rows = []
>
> # delete readin from file stuff
>
> for i in range(lword):
>  cols.append([])
>  rows.append([])
>
> rows[0].append(firstword)
>
> # Generate an array of words with matching first letters
> for i in range(lword):
>  for word in words:
>    if word[0] == firstword[i]: # Matches not found
>      cols[i].append(word)
>
> print len(words)
> #12
> print cols
> #[['cat', 'cad', 'coo', 'cow'], ['oft', 'opt', 'ore'], ['wee', 'wet']]
>
> so this much of program works.
>

It matches these words. Appending the dictionary to these, it finds them
again, but only these words.


Jon




From tejarex at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 17:39:02 2002
From: tejarex at yahoo.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:39:02 GMT
Subject: [].keys() and [].items()  (Was: Why I think range is a wart)
References: <mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ayQj8.73101$hO6.5843911@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>

<James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016053344.6398.python-list at python.org...
>
> [ruud de rooij[
> | perhaps lists should support .keys() and .items() for those
operations
> | (analogous to dictionaries).
>
> [Clark C . Evans]
> | Very nice idea.  This is PEP worthy.  It is nice beacuse it
> | does not introduce anything new; a list can easily be viewed
> | as a mapping having a positive integer domain.  This is simple,
> | consistent, and quite elegant.
>
> I would like to see:
>     .keys()
>     .items()
>     .iterkeys()
>     .iteritems()

I like this idea too.  Best suggestion so far for replacing
range(len(skjf))./

Terry J. Reedy





From python at rcn.com  Sun Mar 31 19:48:22 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:48:22 -0500
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a88apv$eca$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1017466974.6751.python-list at python.org...
> I offer the following PEP for review by the community.  If it receives
> a favorable response, it will be implemented in Python 2.3.

Bono's six hats:

Python author hat:   Votes -1 because all the books which have a section, a
quick intro to python, will have to add another couple of paragraphs
introducing the new type and differentiating it from ints.  The extra
paragraphs clutter the concept space.

Python helper/tutor hat:  Votes -1 because it will need a FAQ entry to
explain the rationale and provide examples of how to interchange it with int
types.  More than one question will come across the help desk.

Python YAGNI hat:  Votes -1 because scans of previously my written code do
not show any need for the bool.

Python vs other languages hat:  Votes -1 because this concept would make
more sense in strongly typed languages.  In contrast, Python offers easy
substitutability (dictionaries where shelves were used; stringio where files
were used, etc.) -- the many faces of truth and falsehood that now exist
should be kept.

Python accountant:  Where is the income stream?  What can be done after the
capital expenditure that couldn't be done before?

Python gambler:  Sure, why not, how many backward incompatibilities and
unexpected consequences could there be?  With the potential payoff so high,
you have to go for it!  <wink>


Raymond Hettinger, CPA




? Would implicit 'return Nones' at the end of function definitions be
interpreted as False
? Would the 'and' and 'or' operators now require boolean arguments




From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Mar 29 19:54:36 2002
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven Majewski)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:54:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Another stab at a "switch/case" construct (for Python 3000):
In-Reply-To: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192158DC1@admin56.narex.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.43.0203291949130.1400-100000@d-128-61-180.bootp.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Bjorn Pettersen wrote:

> > From: Steve Lamb [mailto:grey at despair.dmiyu.org]
> >
> > its_called_a_directory_pointing_to_functions = {'case':closed}
> >
> >     I do not believe that any language which can have a hash
> > of function pointers has any business with a case statement.
>
> But that only works when all the functions in all the branches take the
> same number and types of arguments -- hardly the general case.
>

table = {}

table[key] = func, (args,...)
...

def doit( k ):
	return table[k][0]( *table[k][1] )


You could also use entries that are lists of (func,args) pairs,
and there are ways of constructing nested tables.


-- Steve Majewski






From marklists at mceahern.com  Fri Mar 29 09:55:13 2002
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:55:13 -0600
Subject: number of lines in a file
In-Reply-To: <b0%o8.22778$Li5.504465@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <NCBBLFCOHHDIKCAFGCFBKEEEKIAA.marklists@mceahern.com>

f = open(filename)
lines = f.readlines()
f.close()

print "%s has %d lines." % (filename, len(lines))

// mark

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On
Behalf Of Joseph Youssef
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:26 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: number of lines in a file


hello, I am nwe to Python and I'm trying to write this script but I need it
to check how many lines is in the file and I don't know how so I'm hoping
someone could tell me.

--
Too often we lose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember when someone
annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4
muscles to extend your arm and bitch-slap that mother@#?!&! upside the head!




From dgrisby at uk.research.att.com  Mon Mar 18 05:03:34 2002
From: dgrisby at uk.research.att.com (Duncan Grisby)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 10:03:34 GMT
Subject: Python + Omni CORBA libraries link
References: <3C95AF61.5D25C8CD@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <a74e1m$hhp$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>

In article <3C95AF61.5D25C8CD at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>,
 Viatcheslav Kulikov RWTH Aachen  <vku at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

>ImportError: DLL load failed: Das angegebene Modul wurde nicht gefunden.

Can you translate that error please?

>I am using Python 2.1. and OmniORB compiler 1.0. The _omnipy module is
>available there with a .pyd extension (a compiled library). This message
>is received when the library is present at the PythonPath; when it is
>not, the interpreter simply finds no module name _omnipy.
>Please advise what can be done. I am new to the Python programming, so
>please give as much detail as possible.

You should be using omniORBpy version 1.4. Are you using the version
compiled for Python 2.1?  If not, that would explain the problem.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby  \  Research Engineer  --
  -- AT&T Laboratories Cambridge          --
   -- http://www.uk.research.att.com/~dpg1 --


From mail at andreas-penzel.de  Wed Mar 13 06:17:23 2002
From: mail at andreas-penzel.de (Andreas Penzel)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:17:23 +0100
Subject: 16-Bit MS-DOS and Python
Message-ID: <a6ncgt$fn720$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>

Hello NG!

Is it possible to run Python-Programs with Microsoft DOS 6.2, 16-Bit?

Thanks, Andreas




From hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl  Tue Mar 12 10:41:32 2002
From: hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 15:41:32 GMT
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <agrr8u0p158d8ds86ocv8r9om5tdbbmjdm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrna8s8f3.se4.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:22:18 +1300, Martin Kaufmann <martinkaufmann at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to write a program to calculate diffraction patterns for
>electron diffraction on clusters (100-10'000 atoms). So far I used
>Python only for CGI programming and system tools (on a rather low
>level...). Therefore I don't know whether it's reasonable to program
>such a project in Python (I really like the language). Presently my
>man concern is speed as the main function of the program is a nested

In general, there are at least 2 steps in a problem:
- Figure out what to do (what should I do in what order to obtain correct
  results, how should I organize my software).
- Figure out how to do it fast enough.

Python is extremely well suited for the first step. It is high level, so
experimenting can be done fast, without digging for low-level coding errors
(for example, the amount of code needed to implement a dictionary correctly is
quite astonishing with ample opportunity to make hard-to-find errors).
Being high-level also gives you the benefit that you can concentrate on finding
a good algorithm. Use as much libraries of Python as possible, as they tend to
be optimized for their task (and it saves you from having to code it).

If you program well, and not use too many dynamic features of Python, you can
consider the code as a kind of prototype for an implementation in e.g. C.
Also, selecting a good algorithm has in general more impact on execution
speed than optimizing a bad algorithm.

'Fast enough' in the second step heavily depends on your expectations and/or
requirements. I always try it first, and if I think it should be calculated
faster, then I think about speed.
First of all, if you can break the computation in independant pieces, do so,
and use more than 1 computer. If that is not enough, see whether you can use
faster or different libraries. If that is not enough, then re-code the program
in C/C++ (which should be not too difficult, since you already have explored
the best way to implement the program using Python (i.e. you don't need to do
step 1 again).

>Now my questions: Would it be best to
>
>(a) write the whole program in C/C++ (I know only the basics of C but
>it would be a good "excuse" to learn it...)?

As a rule of the thumb I use that I need to save at least as much time running
the program, as I am spending on writing it.
Thus if by re-implementing, I save 1 hour execution time, and I run it 10
times, then I must be able to rewrite the code in 10 hours, otherwise I am
wasting time.
(if you want to learn a language, this rule doesn't always hold of course).


Albert
-- 
Constructing a computer program is like writing a painting


From jim at jim.jim  Fri Mar 22 20:34:42 2002
From: jim at jim.jim (jimh)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:34:42 -0800
Subject: circular imports (don't yell!)
Message-ID: <a7gm3d$93n$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

We have a scenario where we have (and need) circular imports, that is, A
imports B imports C imports A.  Now I know there are ways around this, but
we have external dependencies that make it very difficult to use an
alternative, so don't be yelling at me about the design ;)

I have whittled the problem down to 3 files:

a.py
------
from b import *
from c import *
consta = 3
if __name__ == "__main__":
   print consta
   print constb
   print constc

b.py
------
print "in b"
from c import *
constb = 4
constb2 = constc + 10

c.py
------
print "in c"
from a import *
constc = 5

As these are given here, it works.  But if I switch the order of the two
imports in a.py, it doesn't work:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "a.py", line 2, in ?
    from c import *
  File "c.py", line 2, in ?
    from a import *
  File "a.py", line 3, in ?
    from b import *
  File "b.py", line 5, in ?
    constb2 = constc + 10
NameError: name 'constc' is not defined

I think this is what is happening:
  - a imports c so c is marked as "loaded"
  - c imports a
  - a imports b
  - b imports c, but c is already marked as "loaded", however, it hasn't
REALLY been loaded, thus constc is not yet defined.

Any ideas?

Jim

Thanks.





From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Mar  7 09:39:45 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 07 Mar 2002 15:39:45 +0100
Subject: HP-UX 10.2 deprecated?
References: <1015292901.342132@cswreg.cos.agilent.com> <x63czd963u.fsf@notus.mii.dynalabs.de> <1015438469.628881@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <j4y9h430i6.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

weeks at vitus.scs.agilent.com (Greg Weeks) writes:

> With this, "make" does indeed create an executable.  But "make test" fails
> both times on test_threads, dying at the end with:
> 
>     test_thread
>     *** Termination signal 14
> 
>     Stop.
> 
> Oddly enough, signal 14 (ALRM) is ignored the first time "test_thead" is
> listed.

It appears that HP uses such signals for inter-thread communication
and synchronization; such usage interferes with the application's
usage of the signals.

Regards,
Martin



From martinkaufmann at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 07:06:46 2002
From: martinkaufmann at yahoo.com (Martin Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:06:46 +1300
Subject: Question about scientific calculations in Python
References: <aots8uo7rr5l5g808m5fluvt0pgn79odfq@4ax.com> <mailman.1015996222.5426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <chfu8uspo0j30i8lcsm3c0m64ratffpn9i@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:04:19 -0600, "Jason Orendorff"
<jason at jorendorff.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot! This is really an amazingly helpful reply. This group is
a good example for how Usenet should ideally be!

>I'm going to attempt to explain how you can do this with Numeric
>Python, but you'll have to understand I have no clue what I'm
>doing scientifically.

It doesn't matter. You got the point of my program.

>So in particular I'm assuming that "atoms" is a scalar, say atoms=1000.
>I also don't really know why you're using s_vector[1:] ... intentionally
>omitting the zeroth data point for some reason...?

This is just because the program that calculates the scattering
factors (which I didn't write myself) starts too low for our
purpose...

>Anyway, here's an interactive session that implements the above
>algorithm using Numeric, with *no loops*.  Or rather, the loops are all
>hidden away where you don't have to worry about them.  (They should
>run faster, too.)

[NumPy Tutorial for Dummies snipped...]

Thanks! I can't claim that I understood every line, but with this code
and the NumPy documentation I will make a huge step forward.

>The histogram version is up to you.  :)

As an exercise for the reader...

>Numeric lets you mix arrays and scalars randomly and it happily
>distributes multiplication and so forth.  So the resulting code
>looks a bit more like the original formulas.  Some folks like that.
>But if you don't, you can always code this in C and it'll be faster
>still.  It won't take very long to learn C.  The real problem is
>that C programs can be very difficult and time-consuming to debug.

If I write anything at all in C, it will only be a small part. Python
is so much more fun!

Many Thanks,

Martin


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 14:29:25 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:29:25 +0000
Subject: Slice objects. How to apply them to strings?
References: <upl4auo0ll9o99skacavmaf9cnnbh2qae4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <04g9au4kn4dtg92584l12n0ut001c7rb9m@4ax.com>

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk> wrote:

>I'm using Python 2.1 here but this still seems to apply on 2.2
>
>I have a little string-based class which needs to emulate strings for
>most things. This includes slicing.
>
>So I need a __getitem__ magic method. 
>
>This will get passed a slice object.
>
>How am I supposed to translate this into a string slice? 
>
>This seems to be the tidiest I can come up with and it's a mess:
>
>def __getitem__(self, item):
>    if item.step:
>        return self.s[item.start: item.stop: item.step]
>    if item.start:
>        return self.s[item.start: item.stop]
>    return self.s[item.stop]
>
>If 'item' is a slice object, shouldn't I just be able to say:
>
>    self.s[item]
>?
>
>Wouldn't this be really sensible?
>
>What's worse, is that I can't even do this:
>
>import operator
>operator.getitem(self.s, item)
>
>Somebody please tell me I'm being dim and I've missed something. How
>do you apply a slice object to a sequence?
>
>Thanks

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

Thanks.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Mar 31 01:48:40 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:48:40 -0800
Subject: PEP 285: Adding a bool type
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBMOJAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1017495346.22278.python-list@python.org> <cfcf4b0d.0203301051.4c2e3917@posting.google.com> <3CA6B11B.3DFA74C1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6B148.4ED337B7@alcyone.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Agreed on that point.  "bool" would be less clear to newcomers and
> possibly those with limited English.  (Vague assumption there that
> those people might have heard of Boolean algebra but might not
> link it to the shorter form as quickly.)
> 
> Besides, if we're doing this to look like the other languages,
> don't they use "boolean" more often?  (I realize that's not
> really the reason for doing this.)

C++ uses bool, C99 uses _Bool, Java uses boolean ...

I can see both ways here.  I'm more used to seeing bool, but wouldn't
object to boolean.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From skurland at juggler.net  Tue Mar 12 18:59:54 2002
From: skurland at juggler.net (Scott Kurland)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:59:54 -0600
Subject: frustrated stupid newbie question
References: <u8t22ns5jo7i46@corp.supernews.com> <8B012C611E@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <u8t5kbhc6qq587@corp.supernews.com>

> > Why isn't this $%^*#$% program working?
>
> > #Searching for perfect numbers
> >
> > howhigh= input ("How high should I check?")
> > for number in range (1,howhigh):
> >  factorsum = 0
> >  halfnumber=number/2
> >  for checking in range (1,halfnumber):
> >   if number/checking == int (number/checking):
> >    factorsum = factorsum + checking
> >  if number == factorsum:
> >   print number
> >
>
> What do you mean it isn't working? It ran without crashing when I tried
it.
> Here is the output from a sample run:
>
> >>>
> How high should I check?50
> 10
>
> Are you expecting some other type of output? What are you expecting?

Well, I was expecting failure, which we got.  What I hoped for was the two
perfect numbers between 1 and 50, 6 and 28.
>
>
> > Flame away, I can't feel dumber than this.
>
> Oh, now what newsgroup mistreated you so, that you would expect such a
> thing? We don't do that here in comp.lang.python!
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

Goodness! I'll have to mind my manners carefully, then; usenet has roughened
them some.

Thank you, Sheila.


Scott




From abou at cam.org  Sat Mar 30 14:40:40 2002
From: abou at cam.org (Zutroi Zatatakowski)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:40:40 -0500
Subject: getting infos from a website
References: <3CA61187.C0548FD5@cam.org>
Message-ID: <3CA614B8.2C5C25E4@cam.org>


Zutroi Zatatakowski wrote:

> # But then I'm trying to read the file and it never outputs what I ask:
> 
> raw_input('press Return->')
> 
> c = open('c:/python/tester', 'r')
> c.read()
> 
> # readline(), read(), etc. don't seem to work because it doesn't output
> the 'tester' file. In this example I close then reopen the file, but
> even if I do not close it first, it doesn't output. Could it have
> something to do with file permission? (even if I'm on windoze - the
> 'tester' file in an 'archive' file).
> Anyone knows what I am doing wrong?

By the way, I can c.write() without any problem into the file though...
That's really puzzling me, I can write but cannot read. I know it's a
newbie problem but eh, so I am. :)

-- 
Zutroi Zatatakowski
Commando PACU
http://pacu.cjb.net



From bosahv at netscapenospam.net  Wed Mar 20 01:44:17 2002
From: bosahv at netscapenospam.net (Bo Vandenberg)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:44:17 GMT
Subject: [pygresql] Please suggest
References: <20020319181506.8E7E757C6@smaug.vex.net> <20020319231043.58646.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1016582792.31989.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5dWl8.12818$zG.4126@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

> (database) to choose. AFAIK PostgreSQL is not really an Object Database,
> though it may have some features that go in this direction.

I'm just looking at Postgres now and, on paper certainly, it has a lot to
recommend it. ACID Compliance and rollbacks seem really important to me for
almost anything.

You can inherit table structures.

The new 7.2 version promises up to 1gb records and 17tb databases and a
whole heap of improvements.

I'm just reading _PostgreSQL Developers Handbook_ from SAMS by Ewald
Geschwinde and Hans-Jurgen Schonig which seems to be very python friendly. I
recomend it.


I would recommend an SQL structure if you want your data to be portable.
Although I'm sure you could massage any coherant data structure into any
other with some work.

>
> I basically see two options
> 1) a relational database, like PostgreSQL
> 2) an object database, like ZODB (for Python, part of Zope). There are
> also several open-source object databases for Java

I agree

> But to say which one is more appropriate, we'd have to know more of the
> requirements.

Chiefly I'd wonder how many concurrant users you would have, what your
backup requirements are, and what sort of data you would be using.
Remember that the datastore should be a flexible backend that your users
might never see directly.

I'd love to hear from anyone using postgres and python.




From amuys at shortech.com.au  Tue Mar 12 19:14:26 2002
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 16:14:26 -0800
Subject: Rule Engine in Python
References: <eb612768.0203101940.5565b282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0203121614.5aabb868@posting.google.com>

lee.ingram at 432one.com (Lee Ingram) wrote in message news:<eb612768.0203101940.5565b282 at posting.google.com>...
> I have used Google to scour the web looking for an implementation of a
> rules engine using Python. I need a mechanism whereby slightly trained
> end users will be able to add / modify business rules and have them
> execute. I previously used Blaze Software's Advisor rules engine to do
> something similar. Has anyone seen, implemented, or tossed out this
> idea previously?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know...
> 

Eric Raymond implemented a simple rules engine as the foundation of
the new configuration engine for the linux kernel.  If it's useful
then great.

HTH

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/

Andrae Muys


From olc at ninti.com  Sun Mar 31 07:46:12 2002
From: olc at ninti.com (Michael Hall)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:16:12 +0930 (CST)
Subject: python cgi design patterns?
In-Reply-To: <iwup8.3013$hi7.10971@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203312212530.1434-100000@localhost.localdomain>

G'day Trung:

What exactly are you looking for? I'm new to Python but I have written
several working CGI programs already, so maybe I could help out if I knew
more about what you want.

Mick 

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Trung Hoang wrote:

> no patterns?
> what a shame :(
> 
> "Trung Hoang" <thoa0025 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:iDap8.1563$hi7.3406 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Greetings,
> >
> > im looking for python cgi design patters. does anyone have any cool urls?
> > i've found 1 and it's quite nice.
> >
> > http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/1998/02/kuchling/
> >
> > Cheers
> > trungie
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

-- 
-----------------------------
  n  i  n  t  i  .  c  o  m
  data  driven  development 
-----------------------------
Michael Hall   mick at ninti.com
-----------------------------




From gimbo at ftech.net  Wed Mar  6 12:31:54 2002
From: gimbo at ftech.net (Andy Gimblett)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:31:54 +0000
Subject: Tkinter: can widgets automatically resize to fit parent?
In-Reply-To: <a65hvq$1fld$1@norfair.nerim.net>
References: <mailman.1015424349.21272.python-list@python.org> <a65hvq$1fld$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20020306173154.GF10985@andy.tynant.ftech.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 06:04:45PM +0000, Eric Brunel wrote:

> you didn't actually display your Application in its master. The
> "Frame.__init__" stuff does not suffice: you should also do a pack
> or grid.  Then, inserting the button in self.master rather than in
> self should be useless...

OK, I think I get that...  The Application object was just dangling,
with one of its children attached to the root instead, huh?

> you configured your button to take the size of its parent cell using
> the sticky option, but you didn't tell the cell to take the whole
> space in its parent. This should be done via the grid_rowconfigure
> and grid_columnconfigure methods to set the weight option on the
> cell.

I wondered if there was something like that going on, but couldn't see
the mechanism.  So, am I going to have to call grid_rowconfigure and
grid_columnconfigure for every row/column in the grid (ie as I add
more widgets - obviously the example was deliberately trivial)?  It
seems strange to make calls to the container telling it how to expand
its cells, rather than to the widgets that go into the cells, but
that's probably just because I was polluted by Delphi back in the
past.  :-/

> So here is a code that does what you want:

[snip]

Great stuff - thanks.  I will examine and read more.

I note that the following also seems to do what I want, and will also
read more along these lines:  ;-)

    def __init__(self, master):

        Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=1)

        self.action = Button(self, text="Go")
        self.action.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=1)


Many thanks!

-Andy

-- 
Andy Gimblett - Programmer - Frontier Internet Services Limited
Tel: 029 20 820 044 Fax: 029 20 820 035 http://www.frontier.net.uk/
Statements made are at all times subject to Frontier's Terms and
Conditions of Business, which are available upon request.



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Mar  8 17:26:05 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Mar 2002 22:26:05 GMT
Subject: Anonymous attribute/property possible?
Message-ID: <a6bdpt$lop$0@216.39.172.122>

A class with an anonymous attribute/property would provide a place to put
get/set/del-triggered code.

Use of an object with an anonymous property in an expression
or statement would result in calling the get/set methods defined.

Thus you could write foo(bar) with the effect of foo(bar.__anonymous__)
and bar() with the effect of bar.__anonymous__()

And bar = baz with the effect of bar.__anonymous__ = baz.

But since __anonymous__ could be a property, you could define
methods at will (e.g., get_bar, and set_bar) and write
bar = baz with the effect bar.set_bar(baz) and
foo(bar) with the effect foo(bar.get_bar())

This might work nicely with an interpolated-string class.
E.g.,
  is = IS('The get_is anonymous property method will interpolate $variables')
  print is # the reference would trigger interpolation with current values
           # you could do this now, but you'd have to write "print is.some_property"

If you wanted to access the actual object that had an anonymous property, you'd
have to give it a named method returning self for that purpose.

I think this could open up a whole world of scary delights ;-)
(And ISTM without a backwards compatibility problem).

Regards,
Bengt Richter