A Python IDE idea - looking for input

[Jeffrey Drake]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:33:16 -0500, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>"Jeffrey Drake" <jpt.d at rogers.com> wrote ...
>> This is no guarantee such a product would be started, just looking for
>> input on a potential future product.
>>
>> The model of the ide would come directly from Visual Basic. This
>> includes such things as project manager on the side. The project
>> manager would be such that you could do advanced things like in MSVC.
>
>"Advanced things" is a somewhat vague concept. Still, let's include it along
>with apple pie and motherhood, two other features that Americans wouldn't
>want to be without :-)

Advanced things is just meant as a statement saying that vb's project
manager is wildly too simple. 
>
>> It would support such things as 'Make EXE file' using py2exe, support
>> debugging just like vb does - example, put break points on valid
>> lines. Have auto list members. Support an immediate window where you
>> can put together python statements almost like you can in the
>> interpreter now. With exception that it would also allow you to
>> perform operations within the scope of the paused program (assuming
>> this is possible).
>>
>Sounds a bit like PythonWin, BlackAdder, Archeopteryx, wxDesigner,
>ActiveState's Mozilla-based product that does Python and Perl, and
>PythonWorks. These are some current projects you should be aware of to begin
>thinking about development for this market. PythonWin, for example, has some
>quite advanced debugging features. Come to think of it, you could do much
>worse that hire Mark Hammond (PythonWin's author) to consult on this design.
>I seem to remember he has some time available currently.

All but one of those ides require payment. PythonWin's debugger likes
to freeze a lot when developing code. pygame code I believe I was
debugging. I didn't like any of the other products I tried. 

Komodo is slow, and when running applications they are always put
under debug mode I believe. 

WingIDE (http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide/) I can't say much about.

I tried PythonWorks and I don't care for it. It looks and acts a
little wierd to me. (http://www.pythonware.com/products/works).

I am not trying to make a commercial product.
>
>> Differences from vb would include no form editor (i don't see one
>> needed to begin with).
>>
>Besides which there's a confusing selection of GUIs to choose from, as
>witness the immense debates that occur periodically when a newbie innocently
>asks "which GUI should I use".
Easy choice, wxWindows :-)
*let the religious war begin!*
>
>> The language I would think of using for such a project would be c++
>> with wxWindows.
>>
>Erm, wouldn't Python be a faster alternative? Once the initial
>implementation was complete you could optimise the really slow bits (if
>there were any) in C or C++.
I like the idea of controlling python from another language with a
product like this an enticing idea.

I am also turned off at using an interpreted bytecode language to
write an IDE for the same language. My problems with this source from
java ides which are infamously slow.

>
>> Another feature that might work well is to allow this program to be
>> used as an editor for python code like vb allows for msoffice apps
>> (and other apps that buy vba).
>>
>Except that you'd need apps that "buy" Python to use such a feature.
What do you mean by that? 
>
>> Any ideas welcome,
>
>Keep up the thinking, but examine the current landscape. A variety of tools
>are available, but at present there's no refactoring browser, for example
>(unless PythonWorks now includes it, I only just got round to downloading a
>demo copy). Rather than trying to emulate what's been done with other
>languages it might be more fruitful to aim at what Python programmers really
>need.

What they really need is something that this post is about. Free tools
are needed more than commercial ones IMO.
>
>Just my two penn'orth. Good luck.
>
>regards
> Steve
>--
>http://www.holdenweb.com/
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