advocacy help ( Python vs VB )

[Peter Milliken]

Getting past the 'well I can just go an hire VB programmers.....' is a tough
one, I have seen a similar argument used in a company for moving to C++ :-).
So you need to present a business case - something that most managers *can*
understand :-). Business cases are tough in the sense that bottom line is
what they are interested in, so suggestions for putting one together is:

1. Convince a co-worker about the benefits of Python and *measure* the time
spent learning to produce usable output;

2. Try (somehow :-)) to show that Python development is cheaper than the
equivalent in VB - this would ideally mean that you and a co-worker develop
the same application (assuming you are equivalent in skill! :-)) in Python
and VB gathering metrics (development time primary but also metrics on bugs,
testing etc etc) along the way;

3. Take Andy's suggestion and show how migration to Python could be achieved
whilst still using VB :-)

Assuming that all of these efforts result in a positive case for Python
(anyone measured Python vs VB? :-)) then it shouldn't be too hard from then
on (other than the programmers who don't want to switch, but point 3 should
cater for that situation - although managers can see loads of mine fields in
supporting APs written in two different languages :-)).

I just checked the "Programming Language Levels and Ranges of Source Code
Statements per Function Point" Table in Capers Jones book "Applied Software
Measurement" (2nd edition) and got the following data:

Visual Basic 2   35loc/FP  Level 9.0
Visual Basic 3   32loc/FP  Level 10.0
Perl  27loc/FP  Level 12.0

Unfortunately I couldn't find Python in the table but the figures for Perl
is probably close enough. So assuming that these average figures are correct
and that there is a 1:1 relationship between Perl and Python (I assume
Python would be higher!) then using Python should show approximately a (32 -
27) / 32 * 100 = 16% productivity improvement - hardly earth shattering! :-)
But since Python is better than Perl perhaps we could expect about 25%
???????

Goodluck,
Peter

"Stefan Kuzminski" <SKuzminski at FairIsaac.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1014748548.28891.python-list at python.org...
> I suppose the fact that I get 20 emails in response to this question is a
> sign, I know you couldn't get 20 positive third party comparisions of VB
to
> Python.  I've tried to sell Python in several organizations over the last
> few years with varying degrees of success.  The *key* sticking point
 other
> than general fear of the unknown ) is enevitably the 'well I can just go
an
> hire VB programmers but nobody knows this Python thing'.  Which of course
is
> absurd since the python learning curve is so small.  But the managers
aren't
> in any position to relate since all they control are resources with
resumes
> that say VB, C++ or Java...  ~sigh~  So my strategy so far has to been to
> build the thing without ever mentioning Python until it's done..
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Sherborne [mailto:miracle at paradise.net.nz]
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:21 PM
> To: Stefan Kuzminski; python-list at python.org;
> activepython at listserv.ActiveState.com; python-help at python.org
> Subject: Re: advocacy help ( Python vs VB )
>
>
> Google uses python to script their cluster(s).
>
> http://www.google.com/jobs/openings.html
>
> (Search for python on that page, I counted 10)
>
> Also check out these URLs:
>
> http://home.rmi.net/~lutz/advocacy.html
>
> http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/advocacy/advocacy.html
>
> GBU
> Matthew Sherborne
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stefan Kuzminski" <SKuzminski at FairIsaac.com>
> To: <python-list at python.org>; <activepython at listserv.ActiveState.com>;
> <python-help at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:25 PM
> Subject: advocacy help ( Python vs VB )
>
>
> > I need to convince my co workers and erstwhile managers to build a
> > production system in Python.  They're coming from a VB world and are
> fearful
> > to detach from the Redmond mothership.  I need hard facts, not warm and
> > fuzzies about syntax but names of big companies using Python and things
VB
> > just *cannot* do ( threads, regular expressions.. ? ).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stefan
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>