Proposal: add vector arithmetic to array module

[Paul Rubin]

Chris Barker <chrishbarker at home.net> writes:
> > What if they're not using Macintoshes?
> 
> Then they can use the ActiveState distribution (Windows and Linux,
> anyway) and run pyppm to install Numeric (I'n not sure of the pyppm
> command, I havn't used it myself)

I just checked the license and it's not permitted to distribute
modified versions of the ActiveState distribution, so ActiveState
isn't free software.  So no ActiveState for me, thanks.

> That's what Py2exe and McMillan's installer do (Installer works on
> Linux, as well, I believe) Everything gets put into one *.exe file
> except the dlls, as those have to be separate as far as the os is
> concerned. It's a pretty nifty approach.

This sounds cool (py2exe, anyway).  I'm not familiar with McMillan's
installer--is it free?

> > 2) not maintained by Python maintainers
> 
> It is well maintained, which is good enough for me.

The issue here isn't as much one of quality as the proliferation of
entities that the user has to trust to not give out malicious code.
I actually wish all distributions were signed, but in any case, it's
really best if everything comes from one place.

> > 3) Only handles floating point data, not integer.  
> 
> Not true.

Oh good, I missed that.  Thanks.

> > Documentation good.  PDF documentation bad.  I see there's an HTML
> > version of the docs on pfdubois' site (it's not in the Sourceforge
> > site) but it's not clear where the doc sources are.  Any idea?
> 
> No, Paul seems to keep the doc sources fairly close to his chest; I
> don't know why.

This is bad and makes NumPy unattractive.

> > I think what's really needed is something like JAR files, for
> > packaging Python apps.  Maybe they could be called CAN files
> > (snakes in a can) <wink>.  There was some discussion of this
> > earlier so maybe something will happen.
> 
> I think there are a lot of folks that want something like this...I
> imagine it will happen eventually.

Is there anything terribly complicated about it?  

> > I thought "batteries included" was already supposed to be part of Python's
> > philosophy, not something that there needed to be a push to create.
> 
> Batteries, yes. Accessories, no. There is, quite reasonably, a very high
> standard for what will be added to the standard library. It needs to be
> robust, broadly useful, fit well with Python, and be maintainable by the
> core Python team. There is no system in place to centrally maintain all
> the added packages that one might want in a "Complete" python. It's a
> bit if a conundrum. If you want to help with the "Complete Python"
> project, let me know. 

Possibly.  Is there a Complete Python web site or something I can look
at?  But unless I'm getting paid, I'd want to be involved only if it's
100% free software.
 
> I envision something like a Linux distribution on
> a smaller scale. RedHat, Suse, Debian et.al. do not maintain the kernal,
> or, for that matter most of the other packages. What they do is put them
> all together into a cohesive whole. That's what Python needs.
> ActiveState is making a start at this, by the way.

I can't consider ActiveState since it isn't free.

> > Generally, adding functionality to an existing module is easier.
> > Especially when, as in the particular functionality we're discussing,
> > it's not really "a bunch".  I don't know if that's the answer you
> > wanted <wink>.
> 
> The "bunch" is debatable. What you want is array-oriented functionality:
> You may only have a need for a small set of functions at the moment, but
> once you get used to it, you are very likely to want more, and even if
> you don't, others will. That's why NumPy was born.

If NumPy becomes a standard module, then that's fine.  My "overkill"
remark was about making someone download a separate package with
hundreds of functions just because my app wants to xor two strings
together.

> You really should give NumPy a shot...it is too good to dismiss, and
> worth the added effort of installing and distributing it.

I like NumPy and am fine with using it myself (though the doc source
issue now bugs me).  I just don't want to make modules I write depend on
the user downloading NumPy unless it's really warranted.