Discussions and developing

[Eric Merritt]

Mr. Bollenbach

   your basic assumption here seems to be that python
does not need to worry about newbies, or that this
list is not the proper forum for their questions. The
first case not really feasible in the long term. As
you must realize Python needs new blood to grow and
mature, that is, unless you want it to become stagnant
like Common Lisp is now. The second case may be true,
the solution there may be that there needs to be a
python newbies list or some such, this seems to be a
common solution. In any case, you cannot just decide
that new users ask stupid questions and they need to
go away. 

Are these types questions unproductive? it depends on
how you are looking at it. If the list is dedicated to
development of the python language, yes absolutely
they are unproductive. If the lists are dedicated to
python, then these questions, that help incubate new
users, are very productive. They help newbies get
familiar with python and get past the newbie stage to
the point that these once-newbies can start
contributing to the language. Ensuring pythons future
developer base is not counter productive.


--- Brad Bollenbach <bbollenbach at homenospam.com>
wrote:
> Though I haven't really followed the PEP discussions
> on c.l.p, realize that
> the development of any large software project
> involves spending most of
> one's time figuring out:
> 
>     a.) What the problem /is/ that you're trying to
> solve, making sure that
> you're solving the right problem and not, in fact,
> missing a potentially
> deeper issue.
>     b.) An efficient, maintainable, solid and
> hopefully "correct" solution
> to the problem.
> 
> If someone truly believes they have a strong
> argument either for, or against
> a PEP, they are being equally as productive in
> voicing that to the core
> developers as they would be hacking out their own
> programs.
> 
> OTOH, the unproductive posts are those that
> continually ask things like:
> 
>     1.) "Can Python be compiled?" (You mean, you
> didn't realize that an FAQ
> would probably answer this?)
>     2.) "What's the best GUI development environment
> for Python?" (The best
> answer you could possibly get would be subjective
> and again, this is
> obviously FAQ'ish)
>     3.) "Python vs. XYZ -- What should I chooose?"
> (Remember...you're asking
> that q to a /Python/ newsgroups, what do you THINK
> you should choose?)
>     4.) "Why use whitespace?" (Why use $'s, @'s, and
> %'s? Why use {}'s? Why
> use ;'s? Why not force functions to have prototypes?
> Why is the default pass
> by reference/value? Why is assignment a statement?
> Why doesn't VB have
> closures? Why use "."/"+" for string concatenation?
> Why didn't you read the
> FAQ before you asked?)
>     5.) etc.
> 
> The "average" Python hacker is supposedly smarter
> than the "average"
> Perl/Tcl/VB/Delphi/Powerbuilder/<your language here>
> programmer. Yet I feel
> every time one of those threads starts (as in, 2-3
> times/day) we're spinning
> our wheels. The more I read this newsgroup, the more
> I question the almost
> overly newbie-friendly attitude it takes.
> 
> Worry about fixing those types of problems first,
> not about the PEP
> discussions.
> 
> "Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
>
news:mailman.993850065.18441.python-list at python.org...
> > Hello,
> >
> > you, like myself, read (and write) to this
> mail-list/usenet group devoted
> > to our beloved Python.
> >
> > We generate several megabytes per month.
> >
> > Python code (src) is 15-20 Mb.
> >
> > So, we could type one Python per 2 months. (Well,
> if we count quoting,
> > probably in 6 months, but still impressive
> figure).
> >
> > Just why reacting to PEPs and accusations/opinions
> in newsgroup is more
> > attractive than writing good piece of code for
> library, for some
> > interesting Open Source project? (Am I alone or
> others also experience
> > this temptation?)
> >
> > Lets imagine that 1/3 of the letters to c.l.p is
> converted to useful
> > Python code. But no! It's far more interesting to
> react to yet another
> > PEP!
> >
> > And this happens because
> reacting/disputing/flaming/... is a (small) fight
> > between human beings and not between human being
> and dumb machine which
> > need to be coded.
> >
> > May be, with time some kind of
> subject-against-subject programming
> > technique will be invented, I dunno, and disputes
> will create not
> > only tryth but quality code.
> >
> > I do not know how to convert my recent c.l.p.
> addiction into something
> > useful for all. (if I only new how to be
> productive after full-time
> > work...)
> >
> > So, I personally decided to shut up and not to
> participate in prolonged
> > PEP discussions where no special protest must be
> expressed. This will
> > be better for everyone, including myself.
> >
> > Lets silence for 1 day in memory of Jim Ellis, one
> of the Usenet
> > creators, who died 28.6.2001.
> >
> > Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
> > --
> > _/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/
> rnd at onego.ru _/
> > _/ Friday, June 29, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux
> RedHat 6.2 _/
> > _/ "I failed attitude in school." _/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/