[ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!

[Oleg Broytmann]

So we have very good discussion here! I want to stress that SkunkWeb and
Zope seem to be oriented towards different classes of users. Let us
clarify the differences.

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> > > Like Webware, Zope uses a threaded model instead of a forking model
> >
> >    Forking Zope would be an issue. It is too heavy.
>
> On an SMP machine though, this kills performance because of the Python
> Global Interpreter Lock.  It will only use a minute portion of the
> other CPUs.  So if you're going to run Zope, basically don't bother
> with SMP, you'd be wasting your money.

   I know it. This should be fixed (and will be fixed sooner or later) on
the Python level.

> Or how about pull the source of templates from archive
> files instead of ZODB (or the filesystem in the case of SkunkWeb)?

   Easy. I can pull templates from filesystem, from SQL, whatever.

> > > To call arbitrary code from Zope templates, you have to create Python
> > > Method objects, which let's be honest, is a pain.
> >
> >    Where is the pain?
>
> I just want to import and call a function, not have to go through the
> admin interface to say what functions people can call.  I want to
> reduce the amount of work I (or others for that matter) have to do to
> get the site up, running and fast.

   Hence you think about small secure intranet sites.

> > > STML has an import tag
> >
> >    Insecure?
>
> You don't trust the people who build the website for your company?

   Certainly NO! Let us see.

1. Some people do malicious things intentionally.

2. People often do mistakes. Do not allow people to delete important
information by simple mistake.

3. There are outside crackers who will exploit every possible hole.

4. And there are different types of sites and users. Think about Geocite.
Do you trust its users? :)

> > > I may be wrong on this one, but I don't think that Zope allows you to
> > > cache the output of a template.
> >
> >    There are cacheing Products.
>
> But caching in a high-performance web serving environment is
> absolutely central or you burn CPU (the app server's or the database
> server's) like it's going out of style.

   Agree. And Zope allows you to cache a simple object, a complex tree of
objects, SQL query or even entire page.

> > > Modularity. It's pretty difficult to pull the cool bits out of Zope
> >
> >    It is pretty easy to use ZServer, or ZODB, or DTML, or ZPublisher
> > outside of Zope.
>
> ZPublisher and DTML yes, but the others didn't used to be

   ZODB is very nice Object DB. Catalog is useable, too.

> > Acquisition allows you to do very powerful object
> > publishing.
>
> A feature which works well for experienced programmers, but not all
> people who build web pages (notably designers and HTML jockeys) are,
> and you always have to keep them in mind.  It can cause a bit of head
> explosion for a while until they get used to it.  One could argue
> whether the power is worth the complexity.

   Definitely yes. Just don't say "Zope is for everyone. Every simple idiot
can build portal in a minute".

> > ZClasses are for simple programming.
>
> Wouldn't it seem reasonable for simple programming not to require a
> class?

   No. Without a class it is not programming at all. But you certainly can
build simple site with DTML objects.

> > ZCatalog - integrated
> > search system.
>
> Assuming you store everything in the ZODB that is...

   ZCatalog pulls information from python, so you can index your SQL tables
or whatever.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.