[ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!

[Oleg Broytmann]

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> Funny you mention it...  The beginnings of the SkunkWeb FAQ are here:
> http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/FAQ.html

   Ouch! Not so good, as I though before, at least for Zope. Whether your
Mason/Webware observation is good or not so good - I cannot decide, but
you've missed Zope almost completely :(

   Let me say a few words. Don't get me wrong - I am not against SkunkWeb.
But your review should be more accurate. Let me try to argue and improve
it.

> Like Webware, Zope uses a threaded model instead of a forking model

   Forking Zope would be an issue. It is too heavy.

> DTML bites. It hits on making it easy to do easy things, but is too
> constraining for the expert because you don't have the full flexibility
> of Python in the tags.

   DTML is presentation language. Don't mix logic and presentation. If you
need Python - just use Python, not DTML.

> I know that they are working on their next templating language (ZTL)

   ZPT - Zope Page Templates. It is not "next", it is just another,
different approach. But still - if you need Python - use Python, do not
program in ZPT.

> Many people have written about how having the templates in the ZODB
> instead of a filesystem can be a pain because you can't use all of your
> usual filesystem tools/editors/etc.

   Yes, this is correct. Zope Corporation has a plan to move those objects
into OS filesystem.

> Extending Zope is complicated

   Arguable. For simple extensions there are ZClasses. And writing a simple
Python Product (module, component) is not a hard task. And even for more
complicated Products Zope has a very nice API/classes/etc, so you don't
nned to program everything. You already have persistent, web interface,
etc.

> SkunkWeb (like Webware) was designed to be easily extendible and
> customizable.

   I want to read more on this! How to write a DB connector? a module? an
object to be published?

> To call arbitrary code from Zope templates, you have to create Python
> Method objects, which let's be honest, is a pain.

   Where is the pain?

> STML has an import tag

   Insecure?

> I may be wrong on this one, but I don't think that Zope allows you to
> cache the output of a template.

   There are cacheing Products.

> Modularity. It's pretty difficult to pull the cool bits out of Zope

   It is pretty easy to use ZServer, or ZODB, or DTML, or ZPublisher
outside of Zope.

   Now few words about Zope. Zope has an Object request Broker (may be
SkunkWeb has it, too). ZServer is a multiprotocol server that already
understands HTTP, PCGI, FastCGI, FTP, WebDAV protocols; it is modular,
there is, for example, module for HTTPS protocol. There are many Database
Adapters for relational databases: MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle, Informix,
Interbase, Sybase, ODBC. Security integrated into Zope, and is really very
well implemented. Acquisition allows you to do very powerful object
publishing. ZClasses are for simple programming. ZCatalog - integrated
search system. ZEO - clustering component. Many good Products. A lot of
good documentation.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.